[This transcript was generated automatically from audio using AI and hasn't been reviewed by a person -- it can contain mistakes, including plausible-sounding sentences that were never actually said. Treat it as a starting point, not a verbatim record.]

[4:30] Good afternoon. I'm going to call this meeting to order of the vacation home rental advisory board. Seeing a full quorum, we will start with Lauren. And we're going to,
[4:44] and we'll start with the pledge of allegiance.
[4:46] The
[5:15] Here it is. At this time, public comment will be taken on those items that are within the jurisdiction and control of the Vacation Home Rental Advisory Board. Public comment is limited to three minutes per speaker unless additional time is granted by the board chairperson. The Vacation Home Rental Advisory Board uses timing lights to ensure that everyone has an opportunity to speak. You will see a green light when you begin, then a yellow light which indicates
[5:45] that you have 30 seconds left and should conclude your comments.
[5:49] Once the light turns red, please sit down.
[5:54] So right now I'm going to open it up to opening public comment.
[6:10] Good afternoon, Ellie Waller for the record.
[6:13] The last meeting was very informative and also brings up the necessity for
[6:18] a possible bundled amendment process for the ordinance sometime in the future.
[6:23] I urge nearby resident neighbors that have requested denials, always, always filed their
[6:31] complaints appropriately, not just with TRPA, not with the fire department or the police
[6:37] department.
[6:38] It helps for review for anybody that's sitting here in the public when it's in the packet
[6:42] as well as the board members.
[6:44] I did find two interesting things in this packet and just so you might have time.
[6:51] And what is land use code 200 versus 320 on designation on the assessor records?
[6:58] I'm just curious how that fits into the vacation home rental information.
[7:05] I'm also requesting future packets should have the verification of all the property managers
[7:13] so we don't have to ask several questions about onsite caretakers that aren't the actual
[7:20] property manager. South Lake Tahoe area plan update will replace the plan area statements
[7:26] in the future and that will become a really good place to revisit VHRs. I'm suggesting
[7:34] at that time when we do that change over to an area plan that some of the vacation home
[7:44] rentals might not be in zones. And once they're sold, they just get phased out because they
[7:50] don't belong in that zone. TRPA has failed to analyze vehicle miles travel associated
[7:57] with VHRs. I'd like that to also come to the South Shore Area Plan update. Capacity of
[8:07] the basin has been exceeded my opinion for several years, the exacerbation of all these
[8:12] extra cars, so that might be a good point to put in there.
[8:16] They've been two recent legal ruling squad Valley and
[8:19] Martis Valley West on the North Shore that will now require impacts from outside the
[8:24] basin as well be analyzed.
[8:25] So we may see some big changes about how capacity is analyzed.
[8:29] And for future consideration, to balance the full-time residents versus the vacation home
[8:36] rentals, more specifically the Tier 3s, ten people in a home, my opinion, on
[8:42] on a regular basis that don't live here is enough.
[8:45] A VHR is a chosen investment, not a guaranteed entitlement.
[8:49] I've often stated to TRPA in local jurisdictions.
[8:52] And now vacation home rentals,
[8:54] Lake Tahoe doesn't know anybody of living.
[8:56] Thank you.
[8:59] Thank you, Ms. Fowler.
[9:01] Do I have any other opening public comment?
[9:08] Tom?
[9:09] Thank you.
[9:10] Sorry, I don't have it agendas,
[9:12] but I wanted to just introduce our co-denforcement officers
[9:16] officers and our team for code enforcement, they're sitting right here, we've got Richard Lawrence and our supervisor for code enforcement and Bonnie Harwood and Rachel was just in here, Rachel Morales.
[9:29] So I just wanted to make sure you guys had a face with the name and we're going to excuse them now.
[9:35] Thank you.
[9:37] Thank you, Mr. Delayer, any other opening public comment?
[10:00] My name is Jim McIntyre, and I live at 332, Mary Ann, and my wife and I have been there for approximately 30 years at that same location. We have watched the neighborhood grow and fall. For the most part, the housing developments within that village have not changed drastically one way or the other. What has changed is the amount of noise that's been
[10:29] and exhibited in the, I guess you can say the valley area of that village, and it just seems to be increasing as time goes on.
[10:41] One of my comments is mostly regarding 342 Marianne, a Mr. Lesser is requesting a chair.
[10:49] Excuse me, Mr. McIntyre.
[10:51] Are you going to stay for us hearing that agenda item?
[10:55] Yes, we are.
[10:56] If you're going to stay, it would probably be more effective if you do public comment on that particular agenda item.
[11:04] Okay, can I get a, I'd like to give a sort of a total picture of the neighborhood and going on for the vacation rentals up there.
[11:14] Being somebody has observed them going on throughout the 30 years.
[11:18] one of the things that has happened besides population increase because of the
[11:26] rentals is the vehicular traffic in these areas and when you go to King's
[11:33] Berry Improvement District and they talk about the various levels of plowing
[11:40] main streets, side streets and secondary streets. Some of these rentals are on
[11:46] secondary streets and whether it's summer or winter, these streets are smaller.
[11:51] We have people that don't abide by the speed limits up there regardless of if it's at the
[11:57] top of Kingsbury or at the bottom or Andrea or whatever.
[12:01] And they tend to not abide by the 25 mile an hour restriction.
[12:07] Where my property is, there's a turn on Marianne and Barrett, a lot of kids with California
[12:13] on your plates and come around there when they're looking for their vacation rental and
[12:17] they kind of drift the streets.
[12:20] As the evening goes on, they've come back from the casinos, the drifts are a little more
[12:24] pronunciated.
[12:26] They're boom boxes in their car for a lot, not everybody is that way, but there's a vast
[12:31] majority in it.
[12:32] It seems to happen every weekend that we increase the noise level over the whole area.
[12:37] And so I really feel adding more people to this whole development area now that it's it was it always has been single family homes.
[12:48] I do remember when I moved there in 92 the county and I believe TRPA were fighting secondary homes within the units.
[12:59] So I guess you can say grandfather or grand, grandmother quarters and what have you that they took in
[13:08] Successfully removed them, but now we're back to
[13:11] Many more people in the area and it's because of the vacation rentals and the
[13:17] 10-level
[13:18] 16-level
[13:20] properties as well as cars. Thank you
[13:23] Thank you mr. Macintyre and you are welcome to speak again when we go to that item number
[13:30] Okay, more public comment from the audience?
[13:35] Opening public comment.
[13:55] Thank you.
[13:56] I'm sorry.
[13:56] Amy Snelson.
[13:58] I am a neighbor of Jim McIntyre, and I'm up here to reinforce what Jim had said.
[14:04] In addition, since the rentals have started on our street, we have seen an increase in
[14:10] because of trash being left out, outdoor fires and people just parking in the streets this morning
[14:20] because they could not shovel there. They didn't have snow plows or the right equipment to clear their driveway
[14:30] and so blocking the streets for the rest of us. And I'm very concerned because we moved here about 12 years ago
[14:38] into what we thought was a single family dwelling and now live next door to a hotel which has been rented out 14 people.
[14:49] And the cars are in double driveways and just very upset over the lack of enforcement of regulations.
[15:00] I see these homes being cleaned. We are still in the midst of a COVID pandemic. And I worry about the safety of the people that rent there, but the safety of the people on our street. And I'm here to just register my complaint with you all. Thank you.
[15:20] Thank you. And again, when we come to that item number, you can make further comments. Any other opening public comments?
[15:29] Afternoon,
[15:37] my name is Slila Serrino, and I am also wanting to talk about the vacation
[15:43] rentals.
[15:44] I live next door to one.
[15:45] We have had many issues with cigarettes being thrown off the deck.
[15:51] We have issues with the barbecue.
[15:54] The owner took the barbecue away because at one point we're walking down the street.
[15:59] The people were in the house drinking.
[16:00] They have probably 20, 30 hamburgers on there.
[16:03] The flames are shooting up into the trees.
[16:05] So he took the barbecue away and put it on the vacation rental list if there was no barbecue.
[16:12] So now people, they've pulled up with a pickup truck, was it?
[16:16] Trigger barbecues because the pickup truck, they're bringing their own and it's a fire danger.
[16:23] We also about three weeks ago when we were shoveling our trees out from the snow.
[16:29] I looked over and the people were talking to me about the snow.
[16:32] And I looked on the deck and I said, is that a smoke or are you guys brought up?
[16:36] He said, oh no, and I got to looking and it was like a low pie fireplace and all these
[16:43] guys hauled that up to the deck and we're having heat out on the deck so they can party
[16:49] outside and that's my next complaint.
[16:52] We have these, he put in noise monitors but nobody who's in charge of really seeing what
[17:00] those monitors are same because it hasn't slowed down the noise or the party and at all and I've
[17:07] called the sheriff numerous times and that's fine the sheriff shows up they do their job they're
[17:12] perfect that they're within five ten minutes but the minute they leave one guy was on the deck
[17:19] hollering at me a few neighbors I stayed up all night watching my cars I stay up so many nights trying
[17:27] trying to watch my property because I'm terrified of these people.
[17:30] They are not the people that come that you see on TV for their nice Airbnb ads.
[17:36] These are party animals, drugs, prostitutes.
[17:40] We even had somebody with bringing young women up.
[17:46] And I talked to my neighbor about this and asked him to check the license place number on these cars.
[17:52] I'm not afraid to call the police.
[17:54] I was afraid to call the police on these people.
[17:56] So the following weekend, they were arrested in Reno for soliciting young women.
[18:03] So these are the type of people you're allowing to bring into our neighborhoods.
[18:07] It is not fair, I've lived in my house since 1976.
[18:11] I should not have to set up at night and be terrified.
[18:13] Thank you.
[18:16] Thank you very much.
[18:18] Is there any other opening public comment in the room here?
[18:24] If not, do there anybody on Zoom for opening public comment?
[18:29] Thank you Madam Chair and Damien for the record.
[18:31] We do have two people online that would like to make public comment.
[18:35] I'm
[18:48] going to tell you that a lot of it has to be.
[18:52] Lynn, if you can hear me, please state your name and full and your three minutes will begin.
[18:56] Thank you.
[18:58] Hi, my name is Lydia Toledo.
[19:01] I'm one of the owners over at Pleasant Court Circle.
[19:04] And I just wanted to thank everyone for speaking, and I understand the neighbors' concerns, and I want to kind of present from our vacation home rental is also our second home and it's a family home.
[19:17] Rental people do have the ability to screen people. That's something that we do. We don't accept people who do not have a good history with Airbnb.
[19:26] be so you can screen people to avoid party houses as a family and you know I have kids as well
[19:33] and I love Tahoe it's just our second home unfortunately because you know I have to work and
[19:38] make money out here but miss Toledo yes are you going to be available for comment when we get to
[19:46] your item number yeah absolutely okay then then if you don't mind could we wait because you won't
[19:55] on the clock then? No problem, sure. Okay, so when we get to your...
[20:00] Item number, we'll come back to you. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you.
[20:11] Todd, if you can hear me, please take your name and full and your three minutes will begin. Yes, hello, this is Todd Lesser. Can you hear me? Yes, we can. Perfect. I am on the agenda, but I'm not going to address that right now. I'm addressing other issues. First of all, I have watched vacation rentals in multiple markets.
[20:33] It's Palm Springs.
[20:34] I've seen partying go on in Lake Tahoe.
[20:39] I mean, in Fort Lauderdale.
[20:41] And what I recommend you do is I urge you
[20:44] to amend these regulations and actually be even harsher.
[20:49] For example, Palm Springs drives around
[20:54] with noise monitors.
[20:55] And if the vehicle that detects noise off the property,
[20:59] they cite the renters.
[21:01] And what will happen with that is late Tahoe will get the note, you know, the message gets out there that you will get a ticket if you make noise in a residential area.
[21:11] People will start going to other places. A perfect example is that Fort Lauderdale. About 20 years ago, Fort Lauderdale turned into a huge area for spring break.
[21:20] They clamped down. They started giving tickets for kids drinking down the street, making noise.
[21:26] All of a sudden, what ended up happening is spring-bake moved to Daytona Beach because
[21:31] they said Fort Lauderdale won't take that.
[21:34] And so, don't necessarily throw the baby out with a bath water.
[21:38] I'll give you one other example, Mount Reba or Bear Valley.
[21:41] They were about to lose their ski resort because they weren't getting enough tourists.
[21:45] I mean, it sounds great to sit there and say, let's not have any tourists, the tourists
[21:50] are evil.
[21:51] But those tourists bring in tax dollars.
[21:53] They provide not everyone's a retiree, they pay for the police, they pay for the electrical,
[21:59] they pay for all the improvements to the road, they pay for the employees to work at restaurants.
[22:04] I mean, my property alone brings in $16,000 a year during COVID just on the rental tax.
[22:11] That pays someone's salary. You know, we need to be cognizant of that. I can tell you that's out
[22:16] like Tahoe. When they've banned this in a year, they're going to be coming back because you cut out
[22:21] even $16,000 out of a budget. That means you cut out the resources, and I don't think
[22:27] people have realistically looked at the impact. The solution to this is not
[22:31] get notification rentals. It's just regulated and punish the outliners. And I'll talk about more
[22:37] when it's mine, my specific property, and what I've done to be a good vacation rental owner.
[22:43] Because I can tell you personally, I would not want a poorly managed vacation rental next to where I live.
[22:50] of 24 hours a day and 365 days a year.
[22:53] I feel for those people, but at the same time,
[22:56] just like anything else, you can regulate it.
[22:59] So thank you so much for your time.
[23:02] Thank you, Mr. Lesser.
[23:06] Is there anyone else on Zoom?
[23:09] Thank you, Madam Chair.
[23:10] There's no further public comment on Zoom.
[23:12] Thank you, then I will close opening public comment
[23:16] and we will move to approval of the previous,
[23:20] this approval of the proposed agenda for possible action.
[23:24] Approval of the proposed agenda, the vacation home rental advisory board reserves the right to take items in a different order to accomplish business in the most efficient manner, to combine two or more agenda items for consideration and to remove items from the agenda or delay discussion relating to items on the agenda.
[23:46] Chair, Madam Chair.
[23:48] Mr. Delayer.
[23:49] Yeah, thank you.
[23:51] I'm a little confused with the public comment from Olivia this afternoon.
[23:56] I was email corresponding back and forth with her, and I thought I was going to ask or request that her item be pulled from the agenda.
[24:03] Number two, can I confirm with her that she does actually want this heard today?
[24:11] I was under the impression we were going to I was going to ask to pull it from the agenda before you guys voted on this item.
[24:24] Yes, that's correct.
[24:25] We did agree to drop down to a tier two and be pulled from this.
[24:30] I just wanted to be part of it because I do respect the people who live there 365 days a year,
[24:36] but I also want them to know that we purchased the home as a beat-up abuse Airbnb rental.
[24:41] and we know firsthand what it can do to the neighborhood and people and that's not our intent.
[24:48] As an Airbnb rental, it's for families to enjoy the way we do when we come up with kids
[24:53] and we don't necessarily want to stay in the craziness of the hotels with the smoking, you know, the pollution.
[25:00] I mean, we have young kids, but we want them to also enjoy how magical the experiences in Tahoe, and you can screen for Airbnb to get good renters. And we have invested so much money into that house and we did everything that we don't want renters to ruin it as well. So I just wanted to kind of partake and listen to what everyone is saying and thank you for the emails that I apologize for taking anyone's time. You're welcome to stay and listen to the entire proceedings, but if I
[25:29] I understand Mr. DeLare correctly, we are to pull item number two from the agenda.
[25:39] Any discussion?
[25:41] Keith?
[25:41] I want to make sure I understood the way I understood it, we are pulling item two and she will revert to a tier two permit.
[25:49] It's not going to stick to the 880 days for a tier three permit.
[25:54] She will cease to rent as a tier three permit and go to a tier two permit effective immediately.
[26:01] Yeah, that's correct. She's got two reservations to date and into the future. One of them is eight. The other one is 10. So she was fine with with the tier two and she'll apply reapply for tier three next renewal period.
[26:20] Okay. So it'll be a full year as a tier two. Is that correct? Yeah. She applied in November, permit expires in November and so this coming November she will.
[26:31] So it will reapply as a tier three.
[26:33] And we'll hear that at that time then.
[26:35] Copy, yeah, that's right.
[26:37] So everybody, okay, okay.
[26:39] I move, we approve the agenda with the exclusion of item two.
[26:45] Second.
[26:49] Okay, I have a motion and a second to approve the agenda, excluding item number two.
[26:55] Any further discussion?
[26:57] Seeing none, all those in favor?
[27:00] Signify by saying aye.
[27:01] I pose none 5 0.
[27:07] The next item is approval of the previous minutes for possible action, discussion to approve draft
[27:16] minutes of January 26, 2022, meeting of the vacationğlmental advisory board.
[27:24] Any discussion, I had one item that looked off to me, but I might have read it off.
[27:33] And it was the long and exciting discussion over a tier three where we had an amendment.
[27:46] And it was item two on the draft minutes and it said amendment to give one week to put
[27:52] a bed in a room and that it was denied, it was denied 3 to 2, but it looked like it
[27:59] said approved 3 to 2. It was just the verbiage was confusing to me. But if it's written
[28:08] correctly, then I'm incorrect.
[28:17] I'm sorry, Tom Delayer for the record,
[28:19] community development director,
[28:20] a simpler this.
[28:22] It's item number two is where you're.
[28:26] That you're having that.
[28:32] So I see it in the minutes on page 11 of 24.
[28:36] It's supplemental.
[28:39] Page 11 of the minutes.
[28:44] Oh, I understand our internet connection is dropped.
[28:51] Can we can we go to a short recess?
[28:53] Okay,
[28:58] we'll take five minutes or until work. Okay, five minutes.
[32:50] Please. Let me, I got to get logged in on the system. Everybody's present. We were discussed. Oh, Mr. Delayer,
[33:04] that time to live for the record. We get it. I still got to get the system logged in into the meeting so we can control it from, from here just
[34:34] recording in progress.
[35:31] Recording in progress.
[35:32] You
[44:25] This is an audio test to see if the audio is coming through on Zoom.
[44:52] Let's go back to the minutes that we were looking at. Any more discussion other than the one item I brought up on the.
[45:00] If not, can I get a motion to approve with that one exception? So moved.
[45:12] Second. Okay, I have a motion by Lauren Romaine, a second, I've had a graph. Any further discussion? Then all those in favor of approving the previous minutes with that one exception that was on page 11 in the supplemental. Say aye. I denied none. Thank you. Five is
[45:33] We'll be on to the administrative agenda.
[45:36] The chairperson will read the agenda title into the public record and will have the
[45:40] discretion to determine how the item will be presented.
[45:43] The timing of agenda items is approximate unless otherwise indicated for a specific item.
[45:49] Agenda items may be considered ahead of or after the schedule indicated by this agenda.
[45:55] Public comment will be taken on items that are identified for possible action.
[46:00] Okay, item number one for possible action discussion on an application to obtain a tier three vacation home rental special use permit.
[46:12] The subject application is for a nine bedroom home, 18 person occupancy located at 550 Sierra Sunset Lane, Zephyr Cove, Nevada.
[46:23] The owner is Patrick Willis, who currently has a Douglas County issued VHR permit.
[46:28] Account number 0, 8, 4, 0, 1, 8, 3, 7, APN, 1, 3, 1, 8, 1, 5, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 9.
[46:40] Mr. Delayer.
[46:43] Thank you, Tom Delayer, for the record.
[46:46] Thank you for reading that in.
[46:49] We do have some additional information in addition to what's on our one sheet.
[46:54] I'm just curious if that's working for you guys as well.
[46:58] There's a little bit more information.
[46:59] I think we're going to add in the next round, but we'll listen to the discussion today and see where that goes.
[47:06] But this is, let's see, the VHR has an existing VHR. They're doing a renewal on this application.
[47:17] It was back in November when we accepted it. There haven't been any complaints, not in our citizen
[47:24] and serve logged, there have been no complaints logged in our citizen
[47:28] serve on this one, and we checked with Douglas County Sheriff's Office and
[47:33] no complaints within the last 12 months. We also have the insurance, I know this
[47:39] was a question earlier from Keith, I think, but the insurance has the VHR, has
[47:45] the VHR language is required. We did not share that certificate with you this
[47:52] time because of of other complaints from owners and handing out private information it was just
[47:57] easier not to and I'm hoping that this will work if we need to tweak our one sheet because of
[48:02] that that's no problem let me know what else you need to to see or what we can include in that
[48:07] and then there have next to no other issues have been identified but we did condition this one for
[48:14] the noise monitor locations if you look in the application he's got a more noise device in the house
[48:19] like five of them I think is what he purchased and and it's not a monitoring system and with the tier three
[48:25] We need to work with the applicant and get that
[48:28] Get those installed so
[48:31] And we do have public comment. I think an email from the adjacent property owner. I just want to make sure you saw that
[48:38] that that recommended
[48:40] Approval on this and he is the individual that lives 80 feet. I think from the from the unit
[48:47] And if you do see on here that the property size was 24 acres roughly, I believe.
[48:56] And so it's a large piece
[49:01] of property, and so I can turn it over to the applicant.
[49:08] We do have some people representing Patrick here in the audience, unless you have other questions
[49:15] for me.
[49:16] Thank you, Mr. DeVellare.
[49:18] Does anyone have any questions specifically for Mr. Delayer or specifically for the Fire
[49:25] Marshall on the report that they gave?
[49:28] I will say this, I did see the property.
[49:32] I don't think anyone else did because it is behind Gates off of the highway.
[49:38] Tina was kind enough to let me in and give me a tour of the entire property.
[49:43] And it was, I told her at the time the noise monitor was probably an issue, but if anyone
[49:55] Has any questions for staff? Otherwise, I'll have Tina.
[50:03] So, Mr. Lawyer, and, by the way, I thank you for your effort to reduce the package size and put in the sayings. And I will send you something because, you know, you're making statements like the, you know, the exam certifications are on file. I'd like to know who, specifically, they're from on insurance. Again, there's insurance. Is it a million dollars? Is it, you know, is it registered as a VHR? So I'll be sending you something.
[50:29] like that, some statements I think, you know, because I do agree people have the right to privacy.
[50:34] I would not want my insurance policy floated out in a public meeting and I can understand that.
[50:39] So I do support that and I think it makes our reviews easier. But when there are some specific
[50:44] questions, I think more than, you know, it's on file, a little bit more information. There's got
[50:48] a little bit more medium on the noise monitors. The noise, those are not noise monitors. Those are
[50:56] at least, you know, on page 49 and 51.
[51:00] So they do not have noise monitors.
[51:02] And I guess I'm a little concerned
[51:03] that they started this process in November.
[51:06] Do they have noise?
[51:08] Did you inform them that these are not noise monitors?
[51:11] These are noise meters, and I don't care
[51:12] how many they have in their house.
[51:14] They're battery operated, they're gonna go out.
[51:16] They're gonna, you know, you'd have to be right there
[51:18] looking at the noise meter to know what the noise is.
[51:22] That's a, it's, I'm not sure how they got confused,
[51:25] But we're all working through this together, but have they bought noise monitors and where are we in the noise monitor process?
[51:35] Well, we can we can ask the applicant that I don't believe that I've worked with them yet and I'm not sure that any of our staff have reached out to them.
[51:42] This this again we had an application back in October.
[51:46] These ones are around November when they were approved.
[51:49] We had certain staff here that approved it and that is no longer here, and we didn't get this.
[51:56] I didn't, I didn't become aware of this until I started reviewing the packet and we'll deal with it.
[52:02] That's why we made it a condition.
[52:03] So we still have some time.
[52:05] We'll get them, get them right noise monitors out there.
[52:09] I'm not sure on the property, you know, there's just two sides of the house that they can put them on.
[52:15] So my last question on page seven, it says that the acknowledgement of the 50 per during the day is included, but I didn't see it in the package, but I'm assuming since you said that there is a, there is a statement on file that there will limit the people during the day to 50.
[52:33] I found so that statement is on page seven that says it's included, but I couldn't find it in the package.
[52:39] I gotcha. That was something that we removed as well. We did receive all the paperwork. We needed as far as signatures and half of David's go.
[52:46] And again, just to work through this, I agree with not even seeing these things on the list, but I think we ought to say standard form received, or if it wasn't standard, then we probably want to see it.
[52:56] Okay. All right. That's all the questions I had for Mr. Dler.
[53:00] Thank you, Mr. Buyer.
[53:03] At this time, if it's okay with the board, I'd like to call up the property managers or
[53:08] jurors.
[53:09] I met one, not both, but, and then they can answer some of the questions about the property if
[53:16] you have any.
[53:21] Hello.
[53:24] My name is Tina, and I represent Patrick Willis.
[53:27] He is the homeowner for CRCNC.
[53:31] I'm Jennifer Citter and I'm the Business Development Manager for Tahulakshui Properties
[53:35] for the past 16 years.
[53:37] She's the caretaker specifically for the home.
[53:43] Tina, do you have something you want to report to everybody or do you want to just ask
[53:48] you questions?
[53:49] Yeah, I would like to respond to the noise monitoring device.
[53:53] So when we originally applied for the renewal permit back late last year, we weren't told
[53:59] specifically exactly what we needed to have. And so that's what we purchased. It sounds
[54:04] like it's not going to pass as far as I can tell, so we can go ahead and get the noise
[54:09] monitoring devices installed, and that's no issue at all.
[54:15] Thank you. Questions, Michael?
[54:21] There we go. Good afternoon.
[54:24] Good afternoon.
[54:24] So first question I have is one of the two of you, a licensed real estate agent or brokerage?
[54:31] I am.
[54:31] Okay. Okay. Representing. Okay. The question I had is that you're applying for a 9-bedroom 18 person rental. Correct. Correct. Is all 9 bedrooms in the 1 main house or are you combining 7 from the main house and 2 from the guest house? That's a question I have.
[54:54] Yes, there is a main house and a guest house, seven and two.
[55:00] In other words, 14 or seven bedrooms would be in the main house and two or four people would be in the guest house.
[55:08] Correct. Okay. So now my question is to Mr. Delair. In our ordinance, we have the short term means one dwelling unit or portion of that dwelling unit, including either a single family attached unit rented for the purpose of overnight.
[55:29] So my question to you is they have two units with one permit, with one parcel, so I know there's a huge property and it fits pretty much every other characteristic you would want in it, but if you drill down to what the ordinance says does it fit?
[55:58] The guest house is detached.
[56:01] It is separate from the home and it's on the same circular driveway with a gated facility.
[56:08] I didn't feel like it meant that it was two separate units being rented.
[56:16] I don't believe that they try to rent out the one side of guest house while staying in the home.
[56:22] But we haven't seen any evidence of that, and if you're, you know, are wanting to make that determination, then today we can cut that guest house out, I mean, and just have the one permit.
[56:36] May I make a statement, excuse me.
[56:39] So a lot of times we have homes on our program, and we've been in the business for 27 years, before Airbnb, before VRBO, and we personally as a luxury rental company do not want more people.
[56:50] So the house actually, as the floor plan indicates, is eight bedrooms and two bedrooms.
[56:57] But we don't want 20 people.
[56:59] We want to limit it for our own headache and our own screening and monitoring to seven
[57:04] and two.
[57:05] And that's really kind of the best way we want to do it.
[57:08] But if it were determined that the guest house doesn't fall within the statute, then what
[57:13] we would ask for is that the full eight bedrooms be allowed to be used in the main house.
[57:18] and we could do it with the guest room.
[57:24] Thank you.
[57:25] One thing I did ask Tina that day was do they rent them separately and you know the
[57:31] answer was no.
[57:32] They were always rented as one unit.
[57:35] Lauren.
[57:36] And I think that is if I can remember when we were talking about these issues task force
[57:42] days back in the task force days, we didn't want to exceed the zoning and if you look at
[57:47] the assessor's page. The assessor's page says two dwelling units. The only is so two dwelling units are allowed on the property, therefore that wouldn't exceed the zoning. But the question comes in is that it is known that you have one permit that one permit includes both buildings. You cannot rent those separately.
[58:09] I mean, as long as I think, although I'm still wrapping my head around it, I think that it doesn't exceed the zoning and then just the fact that you don't rent them separately because you have one permit that one permit covers both buildings, it all has to be rented at the same time, or you don't rent the guest house, but no one else is there.
[58:31] I think we need to look at the ordinance a little bit more to make to clarify better what we're looking to do.
[58:40] Yeah, I just don't want to open up a Pandora's box where there's maybe several parcels out there with two dwellings.
[58:49] I'm not just talking about yours and then all of a sudden we have one permit with two or three or however many dwellings
[58:58] Wellings could be even legitimate wellings, but I believe I was, the way the ordinance
[59:07] was written was for one unit, so that's all I'm saying.
[59:17] Any other questions?
[59:19] I guess it's a question to you too, that you were on the original task force.
[59:25] was the purpose about walls or was it about multiple rentals? I mean, I want to
[59:37] comply with the what's on paper. I think we need to do that. That is the
[59:42] regulation. But I also want to be able to use the spirit of the regulation as
[59:46] well. And just to be, you know, blunt, I don't I don't see a problem as long as
[59:54] are ridding it to one entity, and there's only one permit, but I also don't want to...
[1:00:00] Now, go against the regulation. So, my question would be for you, what was behind the regulation that you were trying to prevent when you were on the committee? You had long conversations about this. So, what were you trying, what was in your mind? What were you trying to prevent when that concept of only one dwelling was discussed?
[1:00:24] I think in my opinion, it would have been the fact that they would be rented separately
[1:00:31] partly to separate people and it would cause more cars and trash and that kind of thing.
[1:00:36] Jennifer might, well, she's not here, so she won't speak to it.
[1:00:42] But a lot of the things the task force discussed and decided upon were modified by the technical
[1:00:52] team that looked at it as well as staff.
[1:00:55] So unless Lauren can come up with something I can't recall because this was 2019 or there
[1:01:04] about, I believe it had to do with having two units that rent separately, needing separate
[1:01:13] permits.
[1:01:14] I am familiar with it because I actually have a similar situation next door to me where
[1:01:19] they have one lot with two dwelling units but they have two permits because they rent
[1:01:24] separately. So that doesn't answer your question really, Lauren. And I would say that from my
[1:01:33] perspective the issue that I was trying to address in that are people that have one building
[1:01:39] and then create another living space, maybe not a complete apartment, but a living space,
[1:01:45] and then they rent those two out with one permit. So there's been some shenanigans that go
[1:01:51] So I don't feel in this situation that it's really that, but I do think we do need some better clarity in the ordinance, you know.
[1:02:01] And I guess maybe we need to be clear in the acceptance of a tier three saying that these two buildings cannot be rented separately.
[1:02:12] And the other issue with that is, I'll say this, I say rented separately, but the problem
[1:02:17] is occupied because it says to dwelling, so I would think they both have nine-on-one
[1:02:23] addresses.
[1:02:24] Is that correct?
[1:02:25] Because it does say to dwellings or is it just one address?
[1:02:28] It's just one address.
[1:02:30] Yeah.
[1:02:32] The issue also that we came in was, you know, that you, okay, so what happens?
[1:02:36] You have a building, you have someone who builds another, like, mother-in-law unit.
[1:02:40] They live down below, but then they rent up above.
[1:02:44] Well, that's what we are trying to stop.
[1:02:45] You have a building, the building is one building, the code says, your assessor says you have one building.
[1:02:51] Therefore, you can rent that one building.
[1:02:53] You cannot inhabit another section of that building, not rent it, not live in it, not whatever.
[1:03:00] It has the VHR, permit has to cover that whole area.
[1:03:04] I'm seeing that here, but maybe we need to write, as a condition of this, that they should be rented
[1:03:10] together or not, or the guest house not inhabited at all,
[1:03:15] when it whilst being rented, if that makes sense.
[1:03:18] Thank you, Lauren.
[1:03:19] And I did look at the advertisements and they don't advertise at all,
[1:03:23] that there's two separate units that could be rented.
[1:03:27] But does there any comments that you want to make to that?
[1:03:32] Sam?
[1:03:33] Yes, Sam Taylor from the Douglas County DA's for the record.
[1:03:37] I just like to point out that the concept that you just described relative to just having one permit cover both units and they can only be rented once under that single permit, but you can have the number of occupants be set by the number of bedrooms between the two structures is consistent with the board's determination that you can only have one permit per family.
[1:04:01] And so in other words, if you tried to rent out the second structure separately from the other one on different timelines, different dates to different persons that you would then run a foul of the one permit per person.
[1:04:14] So it does what you were talking about does dovetail nicely with the intention of the board, I believe.
[1:04:20] And also I believe this is one of the sections that was not modified by the board from the VHR Task Force.
[1:04:27] Thus, I think what you're speaking about in your intentions were encapsulated in the final language.
[1:04:35] Thank you, Mr. Taylor.
[1:04:37] Any other questions, comments?
[1:04:41] Key?
[1:04:42] Unfortunately, this is for you.
[1:04:43] So I start with a rebuttable presumption, about 100 feet being too close.
[1:04:49] This one is 80 feet from its closest neighbor.
[1:04:53] So I start with a no but I look for things to the contrary.
[1:04:56] In this situation, we have a letter from that resident.
[1:05:00] Which I believe the closest is Ray Sidney. He said there's never been a noise complaint. I was also looking at the way the House was positioned, particularly the outdoor entertainment areas. And so the House isn't facing Mr. Sidney. It's almost with its back to Mr. Sidney. The outdoor entertainment areas aren't very close to Mr. Sidney. They're halfway or even three quarters the way down. But I was also looking at the trees.
[1:05:29] It looked like, to me, I wouldn't be able to go.
[1:05:32] I was looking at the satellite view, but it looked like there was a line of trees
[1:05:35] in between the houses.
[1:05:36] So, when you, a tour, did you go to that area, did you see, was there some kind of separation
[1:05:44] of these properties, you know, with my, again, I think I have a better perception.
[1:05:50] I think I've rebutted it, right?
[1:05:52] I don't think this one's a problem, but it is 80.
[1:05:55] So, I have to get there with evidence of the contrary.
[1:05:57] When you reviewed, did you see that my view of the photographs made sense?
[1:06:03] I drove. There's the circle driveway and then you go around and you where the garages are.
[1:06:10] That is the area that faces Mr. Sidney's.
[1:06:15] Okay.
[1:06:15] Mr. Sidney's a full-time resident.
[1:06:18] And then on the outdoor area, I was told by Tina that where the pier ends,
[1:06:26] there's continued beachfront that belongs to the property, but guests are not allowed to go any further.
[1:06:33] There's some signage that says they can't go any further than the pier so that Mr. Sidney's privacy isn't
[1:06:40] encumbered at all.
[1:06:41] So, and then there's a tree line and I mean it really is, it's well done to protect Mr. Sidney from any kind of disruptions.
[1:06:51] Thank you.
[1:06:53] Any other questions, Lauren?
[1:06:56] I just have one from Mr. Delayer.
[1:06:57] I guess maybe, would you find clarity from us on where these noise monitors have seen
[1:07:03] a couple of pictures of different ones, not yours, but where they're inside.
[1:07:07] To me, I don't know if you need clarity from us more, I'm looking for them to be outside.
[1:07:11] In the case of this one, it would be outside on the wall, closer to the closest neighbor
[1:07:17] because of the possible problems there, because that's what we're trying to do is to stop.
[1:07:22] We don't care if you have fund there.
[1:07:24] We just want to make sure the fund doesn't spill over and in fringe on someone else.
[1:07:28] So to me, and I don't know that the front of the place had any neighbors around.
[1:07:33] So it's really in the back outside towards Mr. Sidney is where I would expect that
[1:07:38] at least one monitor to go.
[1:07:42] Thank you, Lauren.
[1:07:43] And I actually told Tina that that would probably be what we would want something closest to that corner of the yard of the outside entertainment area.
[1:07:51] And as far as where they want it in the house, you know, there's a lot of entertaining areas in the house.
[1:07:59] It's quite large and there's, you know, game rooms and living rooms and kitchen and it's kitchen just large.
[1:08:08] And so I don't know if that's up to us to dictate or not.
[1:08:13] I believe staff should dictate where any mounted noise monitors should go,
[1:08:18] but I agree with you as far as the exterior.
[1:08:21] Any other comments?
[1:08:25] Does someone want to, well, I guess I should take some public comment, huh?
[1:08:32] Do I have any public comment from,
[1:08:37] okay, let's take a race.
[1:08:39] Yes.
[1:08:42] Okay.
[1:08:45] Thank you, Tina.
[1:08:46] And for that meeting.
[1:09:04] Dan Ainsworth, as you know, I was on the task force too.
[1:09:08] So I want to provide some comments with respect to what you've already discussed here.
[1:09:15] And one of the topics, the distance thing, Keith, that you were talking about, the 100 feet
[1:09:18] and stuff.
[1:09:19] I want to talk about that later in the last agenda item when we talk about possible changes
[1:09:26] to the ordinance.
[1:09:27] But I'd like to address what Lauren said, what she described there, what the Task Force
[1:09:33] talked about with respect to an owner with one permit, developing a living space inside,
[1:09:41] and we specifically discussed that ad nauseam, and then finally decided, I guess, on the
[1:09:47] one building one permit concept, which I think was the one building thing was put in after
[1:09:57] to the task force submitted their pass.
[1:10:00] Package and Patrick submitted his package to the county commission. My recollection is that we never talked about the situation at hand here, which I think is a perfect example of something that ought to be allowed that didn't get discussed in detail. Mickey, you can correct me. Miss chairwoman. If I'm wrong here, but I don't remember any discussion on that. We never really thought about that.
[1:10:29] We just talked about one permit for a parcel, so to speak.
[1:10:36] This is a perfect example of something that should be allowed, in my opinion, assuming
[1:10:40] they comply with all the other rules and regulations.
[1:10:44] So that's got to be one of the things that we talk about, or you guys, the board discusses
[1:10:49] for ordinance changes.
[1:10:51] I'm fully in support of them.
[1:10:53] And it's interesting that Ray Sidney, who lives next door to him, is okay with it.
[1:11:02] Do you guys know who Ray Sidney is?
[1:11:04] Big George, right?
[1:11:06] Who does a ton of stuff for the community?
[1:11:10] And as far as I'm concerned, if Ray Sidney says it's okay, it ought to be okay.
[1:11:15] Great neighbor, thanks a lot.
[1:11:20] Thank you, Mr. Ainsworth.
[1:11:33] Good afternoon, Ellie Waller.
[1:11:34] I'm going down a little different path, notwithstanding the 20 acres, notwithstanding talking
[1:11:41] about the two structures.
[1:11:43] I look at the map, the location and the number of Tier 2 and Tier 3 within a neighborhood
[1:11:51] not just for first responders but as well as the neighbors, notwithstanding any issues with
[1:11:58] Mr. Sidney, the closest neighbor.
[1:12:00] So, in looking at the general vicinity map, there are 30, let's see, here are 20 tier
[1:12:09] two homes in the general vicinity.
[1:12:11] There's another 32 tier homes in the 126 identified and another 20 tier three.
[1:12:22] That's a lot of people in a subdivision.
[1:12:25] not mostly summertime, I worry about response and number of cars.
[1:12:33] Again, they're in driveways
[1:12:35] or supposed to be, but it's the number of people meandering around. Just something
[1:12:40] to take in consideration when we're reviewing these neighborhoods, the size of them, the
[1:12:45] number of 2, 2, and 3s that already exist. My next thing, and I asked in public comment,
[1:12:52] I'm just curious what assessor code 320 is.
[1:12:54] Every other one we've looked at is assessor code 200.
[1:12:57] I don't know if that's a distinguishing factor.
[1:13:00] It's probably isn't going to change my mind here today.
[1:13:02] Just want to know as we're looking at records.
[1:13:06] Then depending on what package portion you looked at,
[1:13:10] if it was the attachment or the actual packet,
[1:13:14] the way the bedrooms were shown, there's actually 15 beds.
[1:13:18] I'm not complaining.
[1:13:19] I don't care where anybody sleeps.
[1:13:21] But I think we need to know which bedrooms have been identified as the 7-2 or if we're
[1:13:29] going to go down the route, I guess if it's just 8-1, they don't need to be identified
[1:13:33] separately.
[1:13:34] But it would just be nice to know, and again, I'm always in the weeds just to make sure
[1:13:41] that we don't have any exceedance of the numbers of people and maybe those bedrooms that aren't
[1:13:48] being used need to have a door closed and sign on them.
[1:13:52] Again, I'm that kind of person just to make sure that there isn't any issues.
[1:13:57] I did take very seriously what Board Member Sloan said.
[1:14:03] I agree with the maybe we go with the eight until the renewal in November, which gives
[1:14:11] them 16 people so we can tidy up the language so there isn't any issues in the future.
[1:14:17] on the language, and then on the map, it's just a nitpicky.
[1:14:22] It might be that it was just a typo, there's 14 parking spaces identified, but 13 approved on the page that Tom provides with all the assessment.
[1:14:35] Thank you.
[1:14:39] Thank you, Ms. Waller.
[1:14:41] Any other comments from the Chambers, if not, is there anybody on Zoom?
[1:14:47] Thank you Madam Chair and Damien for the record. I do have one color.
[1:14:53] Then if you can hear me please state your name in full and your three minutes will begin.
[1:14:58] Hello, this is Ben Harmon.
[1:15:23] Thank you, Mr. Harmon. Any other comments on Zoom? Thank you, Madam Chair. There's no other comments.
[1:15:30] Okay, I'm going to close public comment, bring it back to the board.
[1:15:36] I do want to say that this property is just really unique and that's what makes it kind
[1:15:46] of like the perfect tier 3 in response to Ms. Waller.
[1:15:51] There are, it's sort of an island because all of the other tiers that you're talking about
[1:15:58] or Pine Wild or Marla Bay or that area, because to the other direction to the south there really aren't many homes, so it makes it either very difficult or really easy to make these decisions.
[1:16:12] Taking it back to the board, does anyone have any comments or want to make a motion of some sort? Michael?
[1:16:20] I just have a comment. Again, I just have a hard time.
[1:16:24] I know what the intent is, but that's not what it says in the ordinance.
[1:16:28] So I think I would be more inclined to just go with the eight just because that's what it says.
[1:16:36] I mean, we've read ordinances to other people and kind of stuck with them.
[1:16:40] I think the bad issue was the last one we did.
[1:16:43] So, you know, I think this one is a great tier three property.
[1:16:48] It's just that I think we need to stick to it.
[1:16:49] I
[1:16:52] agree with you that we can't really set a precedent.
[1:16:55] Does anyone else have any comments or want to make motion?
[1:16:58] One other comment, Mr. Delair, if we were to condition this on noise monitoring not noise meters being installed within 30 days, subject to your approval, are you ready to approve if they came forward and said these are the noise monitors were doing?
[1:17:22] This is the recording it does, you know, the records of the noise monitor and the location.
[1:17:31] Are you ready to approve that?
[1:17:33] So in other words, if we gave them 30 days to do this, because I am disappointed that, you know, this was approved in October and as of today they don't have noise monitors.
[1:17:42] If we were to give them 30 days to install noise monitors, are you in a position that you could give them concrete advice that the noise monitor needs to have.
[1:17:52] a log and you need to put it in this location.
[1:17:57] I've sent you a link already to the minute noise monitoring which in my opinion seems
[1:18:04] to give us the best report and what we've seen and what Heidi Gunter shared with us last
[1:18:09] month was that if you did put one inside, you can see that you're at 70 decibels and your
[1:18:16] noise monitor outside in the location that Ms. Romaine had mentioned, facing Sydney's house,
[1:18:23] the one that's 80 feet away, or even the 245.
[1:18:27] Like you mentioned earlier, it is twisted on the site slightly, that those guys are going
[1:18:32] to get interrupted either by the epic party at this location.
[1:18:37] And they can put those two outside, but they still have to have one inside for the main
[1:18:44] monitor to read from and then you also have to be within Wi-Fi distance so I don't
[1:18:49] know what the Wi-Fi scenario is there on how far out it'll read it depends on
[1:18:55] what kind of device you have so I mean there's a lot of factors that go into
[1:18:58] this and but it does have to be on Wi-Fi in order for it to be online and and then
[1:19:04] that way you can compare that there's 70 inside and 20 outside or 2 or 4 which
[1:19:09] which is really helpful in what Heidi shared with me last.
[1:19:13] But just to bring my question, if this owner needed specific guidance from you today so
[1:19:23] they could take action, and I'm okay with 30 or 60, I mean, I'm a little bit more lenient
[1:19:28] here because of Mr. Sidney saying there hasn't been a problem, but I do want noise monitors
[1:19:32] because I believe in them.
[1:19:36] I'm okay at 30 or 60 days to install them, but I guess my comment to you is if they,
[1:19:41] you know, if we're going to give them a tight deadline like 30 or 60 days, you could,
[1:19:46] you believe firmly that you could work out something within a matter of days so they could
[1:19:50] go in and install and see if they had internet connectivity where you wanted them.
[1:19:54] You're prepared you know and you're and your head what the noise monitoring should look like
[1:20:00] Yeah, and then once we know where those are at, if it's on a deck or patio, this particular home, it's going to be easy just to locate on the map on the plan. It is hard to read, because it was a large plan set that was reduced down to an a half by 11, but we can get that on the map. And Madam Chairman, as far as the, the two buildings, I feel strongly both ways. I could go with either one, and I think we really ought to look at a consensus of the board.
[1:20:29] I can support that the problem we were trying to avoid having two buildings isn't
[1:20:36] present in this, so I could go with the nine, including the two outside.
[1:20:42] I understand your position.
[1:20:44] I could also say the regulation is the regulation.
[1:20:47] Our job is not to interpret the regulation, it's to apply the regulation, so I could
[1:20:52] also go eight.
[1:20:54] So I think it's really just a consensus.
[1:20:56] As I, like I said, I could, I could go either way on that one, but I would like to
[1:21:00] hear an amendment, whoever, if someone makes a motion, I would like to have an amendment
[1:21:04] that the property owner installs the waste monitors within 60 days.
[1:21:10] Yeah, this is difficult, but we really, I'm uncomfortable with setting a precedent,
[1:21:18] especially with how specific we were at the previous meeting on bedrooms, that we
[1:21:25] We follow our own lead, so I would agree with you, we need a motion, or I would agree with Michael and I would agree with you that we need a motion that includes the noise monitors and reduces them down to eight bedrooms until such time as, you know, we make some adjustments to the ordinance.
[1:21:46] Would you also be in favor of a motion that said if the regulation is changed that Mr. Delair could
[1:21:57] unilaterally raise the occupancy back? So in other words, if we were to clarify the regulation that
[1:22:04] that's not what we meant, we didn't mean about a building and walls we meant about breaking something out
[1:22:09] separately, that if the regulation was changed, that unilaterally, Mr. Delayer could raise the occupancy to the 7 plus 2 into the 8.80.
[1:22:22] I could very much get behind something like that. I don't, I would imagine, I mean, it will be a long motion, but I think we should give it a try.
[1:22:33] So whoever wants to be verbose, go for it, Michael.
[1:22:38] I'm going to give it a whirl here.
[1:22:41] Madam Chair, I'd like to make a motion that the Tier III be approved with the following amendments that the main house is eight and has eight bedrooms and the second structure not be rented at this time that the applicant provide noise monitoring that is satisfactory to Mr. Delayr.
[1:23:08] and that if the ordinances do change for the second building with one permit that it can go to a
[1:23:24] 7 plus 2 bedroom or a total of 18. So right now at 16 that I have proposed 8 and 0 for the
[1:23:35] second building, and if it's changed it can go to a seven plus two build bedrooms or total of 18.
[1:23:45] Thank you.
[1:23:46] Thank you, Michael, any second to that motion?
[1:23:49] No second.
[1:23:51] Any further discussion?
[1:23:54] Mr. Key?
[1:23:56] I guess I'm not concerned about where the people sleep, in other words, I'm very comfortable with eight.
[1:24:05] But what I think what I heard you say is they can't rent that structure out there.
[1:24:10] So in other words, they have 16 people.
[1:24:13] You're saying in your motion two of them could not live, two of them could not live
[1:24:18] in the bedrooms that are in the separate building.
[1:24:21] I just want to make sure I understood your motion because I personally don't care if it's
[1:24:26] 16 if they all sleep in the living room.
[1:24:29] Well, that was the whole point of my motion was because in my reading of the ordinance,
[1:24:39] you can't have two buildings, and so you have to pick one or the other.
[1:24:43] I'm sure they're going to pick the one with the most bedrooms.
[1:24:45] I don't care which eight, or there might be nine or ten bedrooms in this main house.
[1:24:50] I don't care which bedrooms they sleep in as long as they're legal bedrooms, but I just
[1:24:58] had
[1:25:00] And that motion that they couldn't use the second one, because that's the second building with one permit proposal.
[1:25:10] Lauren. And I just want to apologize to Tina. This is, this is all new to us. And unfortunately I agree with Michael that we, we have an ordinance. We've got to follow the ordinance. The ordinance is flawed. We're going to work really hard to get this changed and fixed and clarified as quickly as we can. I also just want to mention that, and I don't know that it's part of where we are.
[1:25:31] but I think 30 days is appropriate, 60 just goes on a bit too long.
[1:25:36] However, one of my other concerns is that if noise monitors are only needed in a tier 3
[1:25:43] and part of me doesn't like the fact that someone comes up and has to put in a noise monitor
[1:25:47] before they're approved, you know, we've had a bunch of issues, we're kind of clarifying
[1:25:51] what a tier 3 really is.
[1:25:53] And so I'm actually okay with someone, I understand what you're saying, it's been since
[1:25:56] November, but I'm actually okay with someone not.
[1:25:59] I know it's a lot more back-and-forth work for Mr. Delariness and his staff,
[1:26:03] but until they're really approved, because they don't need a noise monitor if it's a tier two,
[1:26:09] I'm kind of okay with giving it, but I think 30 days is appropriate.
[1:26:15] Okay.
[1:26:16] I guess my concern, because I understand your logic completely, my concern with that is they're
[1:26:21] renting it as a tier three until they get approval.
[1:26:24] Which, and by the way, I guess that's only a one-year thing, and I guess we could let that go, right?
[1:26:29] because you had to bring it 180 days, so I guess I disagree, but I don't care.
[1:26:38] Did you also include in your motion that if the regulation has changed, that Mr. Delirke
[1:26:44] D. Unilaterally, was that part of his motion?
[1:26:46] Okay, I believe I did.
[1:26:48] And did you second?
[1:26:49] Yes.
[1:26:49] Okay, that's all the comments I had.
[1:26:52] So the motion gave 60 days, is that there was no days?
[1:26:57] Okay.
[1:26:57] Okay, so we have a motion, we have a second.
[1:27:02] We have some discussion, is there any, are you ready to vote?
[1:27:06] All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
[1:27:09] Aye.
[1:27:10] The post, 5-0, thank you.
[1:27:17] Okay, we're skipping item number two and moving on to item number three for
[1:27:26] possible action, discussion on an application to obtain a tier three vacation home
[1:27:35] The subject application is for a seven-bedroom home, 14 person occupancy located at 153 Granite Springs.
[1:27:44] The owner is IDB Holdings, LLC, Lewis Sarmiento, who currently has a Douglas County issued VHR permit number 08401811, APN 131826-5154.
[1:28:02] 5-0-3-1, Mr. Delay.
[1:28:05] Hi, thank you.
[1:28:07] Our staff has been working with this individual and they have requested the board
[1:28:12] consider continuing this item to the March 2nd, or March, I'm sorry, the March meeting date.
[1:28:21] They are in the process of obtaining a property manager, still that took a lot longer than they anticipated
[1:28:28] and in our conversations with staff's conversations with this individual, they wanted to or they're requesting you just to push this off till next month if possible.
[1:28:39] I know there is a big uproar from the public over the weekend and on this particular property and there may even be people here to speak on on this one's behalf.
[1:28:52] So anyway, that's the situation, I can go into this and if you want to continue to hear it,
[1:29:00] but the applicant has requested that we continue it.
[1:29:06] What is the pleasure of the board? Do you want to learn?
[1:29:13] I guess I'm feeling that so we've got people here that really have some comments
[1:29:18] and was posted on the agenda and we can also at the same time defer a decision so we can hear and discuss and then maybe there might be some other issues that come up with us that we really need to focus in on so in order to me to delay it is only going to delay fixing or addressing some possible other issues.
[1:29:42] Yeah, the request came a couple of weeks ago. I couldn't get it out of the newspaper
[1:29:47] ad and I couldn't get it off of the agenda just because of the way we post things here.
[1:29:54] You know, this process started a few weeks ago and the determination was already sent.
[1:30:00] The newspaper ads and the mail letters were already sent out and so continuing it to a
[1:30:06] deep certain we can. I think you can still hear it and then have the public speak now.
[1:30:11] I mean, that's fine, but at least the property owner would be available to counter those
[1:30:19] arguments. So that's all I was asking for.
[1:30:26] Is the property owner here today?
[1:30:29] No, he's not available.
[1:30:30] That's been the problem.
[1:30:31] It was a business meeting.
[1:30:32] I understand that he's out of town and not if it's not available.
[1:30:38] Is there a way we can find out if there are people in the audience or on Zoom who want
[1:30:42] to speak to this particular, okay, if that is the case, let me talk to the rest of you.
[1:30:50] Patty.
[1:30:51] Yeah.
[1:30:51] Hi.
[1:30:52] Patty Kraft for the record.
[1:30:54] I think since the neighbors have taken time off of their day that they should be heard
[1:31:02] because I'm not sure if maybe they would be able to be available for next month's meeting
[1:31:08] and go ahead and let's whoever's on Zoom in here today, let us hear their comments and
[1:31:17] And then go ahead and postpone with the owner until next month.
[1:31:23] Okay.
[1:31:24] I would like to leave us some flexibility to be part of what we hear.
[1:31:28] I think if we get to a situation where there are questions that the owner,
[1:31:37] we need input from the owner, then I think we could defer it.
[1:31:42] But before we hear this, I would like to hear it.
[1:31:45] I have some concerns, and I don't want to get in a situation where if you want to rent
[1:31:52] for tier 3 again, you can delay when you want to.
[1:31:56] So you know, I do understand they're rapidly trying to get a property manager, but they've
[1:32:03] had their tier 3 permit for a while, probably November, and it's now February.
[1:32:10] These, I don't think they're necessarily that hard to get, so I would like to hear it and
[1:32:14] And then make a decision after we've heard all the things, whether we should defer it for input from the owner, or if we can go ahead and make a decision.
[1:32:23] Thank you, Keith Michael.
[1:32:25] Well, I'd like to hear it.
[1:32:27] I think there's several people of the public that are here to have it.
[1:32:31] And then I want to be noted that there's multiple letters in opposition from the community.
[1:32:41] Okay.
[1:32:43] Sorry, Tom.
[1:32:47] I'm sorry. I guess this is where you give your presentation.
[1:32:52] Yeah, thank you. So this one is, let me get to my spot here.
[1:32:59] The 153 granite springs, they are requesting the occupancy of 14.
[1:33:06] The total number of bedrooms is seven.
[1:33:08] The previous occupancy, maximum occupancy was 20 with the same seven bedrooms.
[1:33:14] that was because we had the additional four in the lunar room.
[1:33:17] There's a total of six parking stalls and we have two in the garage and four in the driveway.
[1:33:25] There was complaints.
[1:33:28] We heard there were two unfounded noise complaints in the past 12 months from the sheriff's department.
[1:33:34] And I believe I can't remember by I think these are the ones that were maybe their reported late.
[1:33:39] Sheriff's office is makes it to the site and then of course the noise isn't happening at that time.
[1:33:43] So we ad urge the residents and the ones around to complain to the advisory board and I understand that happened this weekend although there was some confusion about the number.
[1:33:56] I just want to make sure everybody is clear that the number to call is 775-783-6027.
[1:34:05] It's also posted on our website.
[1:34:08] And then the bear box for trash, we have three person local maintenance crew that dumps trash in the landfill after every visit.
[1:34:16] So that's their explanation on that and it looks to me like we have the 100, it was about 100 feet.
[1:34:26] I think was the closest and it was across the street 100 foot for that.
[1:34:30] that it's on page 104, the packet, 167, or 169 actually is the longest distance away.
[1:34:37] And there's four different, one, two, three, four different homes.
[1:34:42] The adjacent properties are vacant on either side of the home.
[1:34:46] And I can't remember if these were the ones where the state owned them, I believe so.
[1:34:51] And we're working on that to try and get a layer so we can turn that on to show you guys that it's a publicly owned parcel of US Forest Service.
[1:35:00] State of Nevada, Douglas County, have acquired a lot of parcels up in here in the developments in order to reduce the density in these neighborhoods. So it would be better to have that information for you guys as well. And then the applicant isn't available right now. But, and I don't think we had or we did actually recommend a condition to be added to the approval, require an applicant to provide the location of the
[1:35:29] existing noise monitors, I don't think we're able to determine where those were located and we'll work with him on that on those locations as well, but so that's what I have.
[1:35:42] Thank you, Mr. Delayer.
[1:35:44] I want to remind the board that because the owner isn't here, we won't get some of our questions answered and Mr. Delayer, if you would ask the permit holder to listen to this portion of the meeting so
[1:35:58] So that he's prepared if we end up differing the vote, because I know for myself, I have
[1:36:08] quite a few comments, but let's start with the board here asking, we're not asking questions,
[1:36:17] I guess we're making comments, or we're not, okay, and then if you have any questions for
[1:36:24] the fire marshal as well.
[1:36:27] So, Kate, do you want to go first?
[1:36:30] Mr. Miller, I just want to, I'm just trying to use intuition about the LLC.
[1:36:36] And this is owned by IDB holdings, but the permit is issued to an individual.
[1:36:41] Is that how you're trying to prevent transfer of permits with a cell of a property?
[1:36:47] Or why wouldn't the, and by the way, the permit was issued after 6221,
[1:36:52] And I wasn't sure what was happening with LLCs.
[1:36:57] I thought the original ordinance said no LLCs after 62221.
[1:37:06] Were those grandfathered in?
[1:37:07] Or can you tell me about how the LLC was a grandfathered in?
[1:37:10] Or if it not, why was it issued?
[1:37:13] And then, or is that why it's Lewis Serinto?
[1:37:18] So if you can just kind of look at that.
[1:37:21] And it's LLC issued after 6-2-21, but the permits in the name Louis Sorrento, is that
[1:37:29] why it's an individual's brother in the LLC?
[1:37:33] Tom Delair for the record, the LLC purchased the property or it was transferred.
[1:37:38] Actually, I think on this particular one, if you look at the deeds tied to the ownership
[1:37:43] records on page 147, they purchased the property on September 2020.
[1:37:48] The LLC is when that happened, so they did create the LLC this last time prior to those new rules going into effect in 2021.
[1:38:00] I believe we left the permit or back when host compliance was doing the permits and we were managing that.
[1:38:07] I believe the permit was still left in the original owner's name.
[1:38:12] I believe is what happened or there may have been even a property manager associated with this.
[1:38:17] I'm going to need to dig into this a little bit more to answer your questions in detail
[1:38:24] because some of this is getting really far into the weeds on this application.
[1:38:28] But Lewis, Serinto Lewis, it looks like to me where the last two that were issued on
[1:38:36] this particular property and what we're trying to do now is we're at the guidance of our district
[1:38:42] Your attorney's office is show the actual owner's name so the LLC will be on the permit and then in brackets it's who the LLC has identified as the responsible person and that's how we've been trying to write the code you know the ordinance or the I'm sorry the agenda action item.
[1:39:00] So we give you the name of the individual who's in the responsible charge of the LLC on a go for basis.
[1:39:05] There's a vacant lot and I think on page 104 it shows,
[1:39:12] you know, there's 169 feet, 100 feet, 167, 125 feet.
[1:39:16] That lot on page 104 to the left is,
[1:39:21] I don't know if that's a billable lot,
[1:39:26] but it would be interesting to know how close the building envelope
[1:39:29] is to that house because I suspect if that one other lot is 125,
[1:39:33] the building envelope is 60, which again I have a
[1:39:37] reversible presumption about a hundred feet whether you like it or not, whether
[1:39:40] anybody thinks it makes sense or not, I still have that. So it would be
[1:39:43] interesting when when there's a vacant lot to find out if it's a buildable lot
[1:39:47] and if it's a buildable lot, how close the building envelope is to the house.
[1:39:52] When you mentioned unverified, unfounded verse unverified, unfounded
[1:40:00] And unverified are the same term. They just mean that by the time we got there, we couldn't verify, unfounded does not mean that we suspect the complaint was malicious. Is that correct? Yes, that's correct. Okay, thank you. That's all the question I had from Mr. Delair. I knew I'm sorry. Mr. Delair. Thank you, Madam Chair. Tom Delair for the record. So on these images, when you're looking at from GIS, the property lines that are yellow are not entirely accurate. It depends on where the plane
[1:40:29] was flying at the time the aerial was taken so the further out from where the plane is at the further off
[1:40:37] our property lines are going to be and it's upwards of 16 feet so I don't want to I don't want to
[1:40:43] give you a dimension from the house to the property line and without some sort of survey
[1:40:47] giving us exactly where that is at it's going to be difficult I mean I can give you a ballpark
[1:40:52] roughly you know but we can normally tell but up in Tahoe there's not a whole lot of fences
[1:40:57] is down here in the valley, you can really tell and see, well, look at the property line
[1:41:02] and the fence lines are off, but up here it's a little more difficult, but you can tell
[1:41:06] by the road, having a lot more right away, but they may have built it that way, what I found
[1:41:11] up in Tahoe, is the right road might not be in the middle of the road like it is down here
[1:41:16] in the valley.
[1:41:16] So, there's a lot of factors that go into finding these distances, and I don't know that that's
[1:41:21] really the intent of what our code was trying to get into in the detail that we were expecting
[1:41:27] staff to drill down to on each and every application and I just want to be careful of that.
[1:41:34] Well, just my position, I understand that concern and you can't do what you can't do, and I understand that the deviations in an aerial photograph.
[1:41:46] But if it would be good to know whether it's a buildable lot or not from the minimum because I've had situations
[1:41:56] and AOA issues where the neighbors have said everything's okay, we're okay with them
[1:42:01] violating the OHOA standards.
[1:42:03] But that doesn't mean the person who buys that house is also going to be okay.
[1:42:07] And so, you know, while it's 160 feet, 100 feet, 169 feet to 125 feet, if the lot in between
[1:42:14] the 125 foot house and this is a buildable lot, someone is going to move in and they are
[1:42:22] going to be much closer potentially than 125 feet.
[1:42:25] So I understand what you can't tell me where the building, you know, you probably can't tell me the exact
[1:42:31] distance from the
[1:42:33] building envelope, but to know whether it's a bill, I would, I would suggest we talk about whether it's a build a lot then. Thank you.
[1:42:40] So,
[1:42:43] Nevada State Land, these are not built.
[1:42:47] Thank you, Keith, um, Lauren.
[1:42:49] Sorry, Tom.
[1:42:55] So Chief has a great app that I don't have access to they'll have to get access to at one point or not they'll give a subscription but they're both stated Nevada owned on either side of the home.
[1:43:06] I
[1:43:28] heard say to that something that what about the one directly across the street to the right state of Nevada
[1:43:40] Okay, I'll learn
[1:43:41] I have a couple questions for the for the fire chief
[1:43:46] In law fire report. It says the bedroom
[1:43:50] Maps must be redone to show current bedroom count
[1:43:55] Do you know what that and then the photos show
[1:43:59] There's seven bedrooms, but they used to have eight on their permit, so I'm just kind of really confused over what happened.
[1:44:11] So do you know what that means as far as the bedroom maps must be redone to show current bedroom count?
[1:44:19] Sometimes the homes, they'll use a owner, like an owner, air gave on for the record, fire marshal, division chief.
[1:44:29] So sometimes owners will use a bedroom for a lock-off and they will store their personal items in those and then when they go to permit, if they choose that they're going to rent that room, then we count that as a bedroom.
[1:44:43] So we look at the safety features there and make sure it's appropriate.
[1:44:47] So that they can either expand them or withdraw depends on what they're asking you to permit.
[1:44:54] Okay, and then I'm scrolling down and I don't know this is actually a question for you but I'm confused.
[1:45:00] It's kind of more for everyone. It's I'm confused because we started off with, I mean, I'm trying to get down to the bottom permit here. I was thinking that they were permitted for eight bedrooms, but now they're asking to be permitted for seven bedrooms. Is that, did I miss something there? That's correct. Seven bedrooms is the correct amount that we have on our agenda. They're, they're original. They're original.
[1:45:29] All occupancy was 20, which means 16, which means 8.
[1:45:35] So they had 8 bedrooms before.
[1:45:37] Now they're down to 7 bedrooms because now the number of bedrooms is put on.
[1:45:42] So do we know what happened?
[1:45:47] Yeah.
[1:45:47] Oh, sorry.
[1:45:48] If you go to page 112, I believe one of the bedrooms had bunk beds in front of the window.
[1:45:55] So there wasn't an egress, so I believe that was why the beds dropped from 8 to 7 as the
[1:46:00] way I took it. I was on page 112. Yeah, if I may, Madam Chair. So the eighth bedroom
[1:46:07] is not a legal bedroom. The seventh one is a tiny little room. That is an office, not
[1:46:13] a bedroom. So it would be an office. Okay. Thank you. But let me go through my pictures
[1:46:20] of the bedrooms. And when we, oh, that's good. Yeah, that's nice. So if we go through the
[1:46:28] pictures of the bedrooms. Unfortunately, page 131 is not a primary-purpose room. So I needed
[1:46:37] clarification on how many actual bedrooms there were. So now we're saying there's actually
[1:46:41] seven bedrooms because one was not considered a bedroom. But one of the seven that are in
[1:46:48] this group on page 131 is not a primary-purpose room.
[1:46:57] Okay,
[1:46:59] and on the plans, it does say, it does say game room, seventh bedroom, so it's a combination type of thing.
[1:47:05] So, I don't know how we went on, fortunately, we're back to that issue again.
[1:47:13] Can I run through my things real quick, and we can come back to this room thing, if everybody wants to.
[1:47:18] Okay, on their advertisements, they actually, on the Airbnb, the reviews talk about space heaters.
[1:47:26] are space heaters acceptable forms of heat in a rental, I guess a mask on Mr. Gwervin?
[1:47:35] So, yes, they can be acceptable if they're plugged in appropriately, so if they have extension cords or they're illegally wired in there, we will not allow those.
[1:47:48] But if they have all the safety features and they're a good heater, they're acceptable.
[1:47:54] So you are rated heaters, yes.
[1:47:56] The interesting thing in the fire report, it doesn't say anything about space heaters,
[1:48:00] so the thing of it is that we have a place that wasn't overseen for space heaters to
[1:48:07] make sure that they're being appropriately done, but the reviews are saying that they
[1:48:12] use space heat, and I'm just, I was just kind of curious, it's kind of one of those areas
[1:48:16] where we need to try to figure out a little bit more.
[1:48:22] In the article, it also says in this is that on the Airbnb, it also says the remodeled addition is perfect for multi-families.
[1:48:30] So I don't know what that, I don't know if anybody knows what that means, is there a separate living section in that home that you know of, unfortunately, we don't get on the inside of them.
[1:48:42] So we're kind of reliant on your eyes and ears.
[1:48:45] Madam Chair.
[1:48:48] Mr. Taylor.
[1:48:49] Yeah, some of these, same to you there for the record, Douglas County D.A.'s.
[1:48:54] Some of these things that Lauren's getting into, it kind of going into questions that it would be appropriate for the owner to answer.
[1:49:03] And the owner's not present.
[1:49:04] And, you know, under the public hearing procedures in 2024, the Douglas County Code, they're allowed to basically be present during a public hearing.
[1:49:13] they were informed as my understanding that they did not need to be present.
[1:49:19] So the question maybe as to whether or not you can postpone that and
[1:49:22] ask those questions to the owner in a later date, might be appropriate to decide whether
[1:49:27] or not you can do that at the point.
[1:49:28] And I think my purpose was first to see if there were a way to get it answers.
[1:49:31] But then the second thing is also is that these are issues.
[1:49:34] So if like Mickey said, if they listen to this, then we'll be much better prepared when they do.
[1:49:39] So I understand I'm not going to get that maybe get the answers on it.
[1:49:42] I have one last thing if I could, on their online ad, they still are advertising for 20 people.
[1:49:48] So the title says the appropriate time, but if you read in the narrative, it says perfect place for 20 people, eight beds.
[1:49:58] And I would
[1:50:00] I really hope that people that are getting the privilege of owning a VHR and operating a VHR would take those things and what is out there in the public seriously and fix those fairly quickly, because they're fairly easy to fix. So that's my purpose in getting that. So can we go back to the bedroom? I guess I'm looking for other people in their thoughts on this seventh bedroom.
[1:50:26] Michael? Okay. Well, I think you know where I come from from the last meeting, I think.
[1:50:30] If there's beds in there, and it looks like that's what they're used for, and there's
[1:50:38] a billiards table, and there's a TV, I'm going to consider a bedroom.
[1:50:52] So I am probably the same place as well.
[1:50:56] I think the spirit behind this was, let's not pack as many people as we possibly can
[1:51:04] in any space possible and this bedroom issue was a way a hook to do that. And so that's why I'm
[1:51:14] in the same place also that I was last meeting that bedroom's ought to be beds. And if they're
[1:51:20] game rooms, you don't get that as a bedroom simply because you're trying to raise that. Now again,
[1:51:24] the owner's not here. I do have some more questions and comments though based on some of the things
[1:51:30] things that are said, but I'll let other people speak quite to those.
[1:51:35] Patti.
[1:51:36] I'm comparing this shot to the last meeting that we had, where they had the couch with
[1:51:46] the kitchen, I'll say a kitchenette in there, which they used for entertainment and then
[1:51:53] they had a hide-a-bed.
[1:51:54] to me that if they put in a bed that would be more like a suite where this looks
[1:52:04] like they just added some more beds took a game room added more beds to it to
[1:52:11] get more occupancy. Thank you.
[1:52:19] I had all the same questions and comments so I don't
[1:52:24] I think I need to waste any more time with what I had to say.
[1:52:30] I had the same comments.
[1:52:31] The bedrooms, you know, just don't all look like bedrooms, you know, the no trash
[1:52:37] service, the things like that, but those are things I think we'd have to talk to
[1:52:41] the owner about Keith.
[1:52:43] Well, back to their ad, the title acts as spectacular eight bedroom that sleeps 20.
[1:52:51] Then if you go down to the description, entire 16 guests was seven bedrooms.
[1:52:57] So even if there were seven, there should be 14, not 16, but there's clear indication
[1:53:03] that if you want to bring 20 people, they can all find a place to sleep.
[1:53:07] And that bothered me.
[1:53:08] But I wanted to go back to Mr. Taylor.
[1:53:11] Mr. Taylor, if I understand right, this meeting was noticed.
[1:53:16] We have given the owner the opportunity to show up to appear to be on Zoom to be anywhere else.
[1:53:24] Are you saying that we cannot act on this today?
[1:53:30] Because again, when I heard your words and was kind of going down a mental checklist,
[1:53:35] it was agendized. They were aware the meeting was there.
[1:53:40] They may not have wanted to, they may have wanted to reschedule it.
[1:53:43] But we did offer them the chance to appear.
[1:53:46] Can you, I mean, would you find it illegal or inappropriate if we were to act on this today?
[1:53:51] Because I mean, that obviously changes the direction of our questions.
[1:53:56] Sam Taylor for the record, Douglas Kennedy DA's office.
[1:54:01] I would start out by reiterating what I mentioned before, which is 2024, the Douglas Kennedy code.
[1:54:07] Essentially, authorizes and allows an applicant to come and
[1:54:11] appear and provide testimony and evidence in support of their application.
[1:54:17] This is an application in front of this board and the public hearing procedures in 2024
[1:54:22] should be followed.
[1:54:25] Normally, I would say yes.
[1:54:27] If it's agendized and properly noticed, the person should appear and present evidence.
[1:54:33] There is a mitigating circumstance here, and that is the fact that staff informed the applicant
[1:54:39] and risk my understanding they did,
[1:54:40] and let them know that they did not need to be present today.
[1:54:46] So there is a little bit of a disconnect.
[1:54:49] I think it was understanding of staff released
[1:54:51] from what I understand that this matter would
[1:54:56] be able to be continued.
[1:55:00] I'm not sure how the board would like to address that particular fact, but if the applicant was notified by somebody having a parent authority on behalf of the county, and giving them advice as to not to appear today, then I think the board should take that into account when making his decision. And also in the event the board did make the decision in the absence of the owner, if it went against the owner or the applicant. And the applicant was not
[1:55:29] here and was told they didn't have to be here, that would present a pretty good appeal issue.
[1:55:37] Sorry, I'm just picking it to words a little bit.
[1:55:43] The applicant was told they didn't have to appear, which is every applicant.
[1:55:48] No applicants mandated to come before this committee.
[1:55:51] So I just wanted to verify yours, it was stated to the applicant, they didn't need to appear
[1:55:57] because it would be deferred.
[1:56:01] That is my understanding, Mr. Spryer.
[1:56:05] Thank you, yes.
[1:56:08] Mr. Dillard, I have a question.
[1:56:11] When these permits are in between being issued and before we hear them, there is issued a tier three permit.
[1:56:23] Does whoever the people are that check applicant ads to make sure they're correct, do those get looked at or
[1:56:32] more carefully or at all during that time?
[1:56:37] Yeah, Madam Chair, there's Tom DeLair for the record and I would say yes they do get looked at and
[1:56:43] scrutinized and then the applicant was informed and it sounds like they did change it.
[1:56:49] They may have missed the title on that ad that you know when we given them the letter stating any changes that happen here at this board then we mandate that they
[1:57:01] They take care of that like now, and we'll let this individual know as well that the advertising is still off.
[1:57:11] Thank you. I was kind of curious about that kind of as a global question for all of them.
[1:57:17] But back if I may, Madam Chair, to answer Mr. Buyer's question, I believe staff did tell them that they didn't have to appear for this meeting and we were trying to get this actually pulled off the agenda.
[1:57:32] But with the noticing that went out to the neighbors and we didn't want that to be their confusion piece
[1:57:38] That's why I opened with asking you guys to continue this till next month, but
[1:57:43] But that's yeah, thank you
[1:57:46] This
[1:57:48] Michael
[1:57:49] I just have a comment based upon Mr. Taylor's
[1:57:53] And Mr. Delayer I I think we should hear from the public but not really make any any
[1:57:59] any decisions today and I speed things up a little bit.
[1:58:05] I concur, Lauren.
[1:58:08] I concur also.
[1:58:10] It's disheartening because we have so many to get through and everything else and we're
[1:58:14] trying to get our feet under us here, but I think it's only appropriate.
[1:58:18] I do have one other question for the chief.
[1:58:21] On our walk around of this property, the gas grill is up against a railing.
[1:58:27] I was wondering at what the status of that goes when you're doing inspections and whether
[1:58:33] that's acceptable.
[1:58:37] So the barbecue would have to have clearance from anything combustible, so I don't know
[1:58:41] what the railing is there.
[1:58:43] So we speak to them and we have them make sure there's clearance.
[1:58:47] So nothing, they can't be under an overhang and they have to have clearance from combustibles.
[1:58:53] Usually, it can be up to 36 inches from the sides, sometimes the back has a closer limitation, so it just depends on the actual barbecue.
[1:59:05] If it's a smoker or a trigger, it basically can be right up against the grill, or right up against the railing, I'm sorry.
[1:59:12] Thank you.
[1:59:17] If there's nothing else from up here, I would like to at least let the public comment begin for the people that have come today.
[1:59:28] State your name and sign in.
[1:59:31] Thank you very much for taking public comment to appreciate it is difficult to get some time off work and so thank you for making that happen.
[1:59:39] And my name is Clint Pervance.
[1:59:41] I'm a local physician, the healthcare system at Barton, the CEO up there.
[1:59:47] I also have worked down here at Carson Valley and
[1:59:49] provides some leadership down here as well for our residents in Douglas County and
[1:59:53] in South Lake Tahoe and have since 1999.
[1:59:56] I own at 145 Granite Springs Drive, which is two.
[2:00:00] House is in one lot of way from this vacation property. I've lived in that home for 12 years. I built that home and I've lived in it for 12 years. I've lived in the Granite Springs neighborhood for over 20 years, 22 years. And all the things that you heard in the opening public comment are real to me on a regular basis. Over density traffic, trash, noise, criminal activities, fires, trespassing. There's even a legal trail which goes from behind this house crosses private property and then into Forest Service Land.
[2:00:28] And those are things that we deal with with this property on a regular basis and have for
[2:00:33] many years and even under the current ownership structure and rental structure, which is problematic.
[2:00:39] I'm married, I have kids, four kids live at home, and that's just my story.
[2:00:45] There are five other positions that live in the neighborhood, contractors, architects, musicians,
[2:00:51] people who work from home, who tell a commute, other families with children.
[2:00:56] Our roads are narrowed, they're icy, they're curvy, they're steep.
[2:01:00] This vacation rental at one point in December had so many people in it.
[2:01:04] We just inquired of the folks that were walking through the neighborhood at one point in time.
[2:01:08] One of the young ladies who would talk to us, so there are 23 staying there.
[2:01:12] There are more cars parked all over the roads, which does not enable snow removal and
[2:01:17] makes it a challenge.
[2:01:18] The roads are slippery, and so when we're out on the roads, we're always concerned traffic is an issue.
[2:01:23] and certainly speeding on these curvy roads is an issue as well, so it's a safety issue.
[2:01:28] But one of the things I'd love to address with you, and maybe it's good for a general comment,
[2:01:33] is that our work forces are stretched.
[2:01:35] My neighborhood is a working neighborhood in Tahoe, it's not a vacation home neighborhood.
[2:01:39] I fully support high density vacation rentals in urban areas, and
[2:01:45] I support code enforcement, I think that that's real, and I welcome the tourism to our area.
[2:01:50] We build our community around that, but we need to do it responsibly.
[2:01:54] But the workforce is stretched.
[2:01:56] We do so much more now than we've ever done before with so much less workforce.
[2:01:59] You do that down here as well.
[2:02:01] When my team of physicians, health care individuals that live in the neighborhood,
[2:02:06] when we get a Sunday off or a weekend off, we want to go home and rest.
[2:02:09] We want to find that restoration time.
[2:02:11] It's hard to do when you have large vacation runners and rentals in your neighborhood.
[2:02:15] So I would just say, you know, for your workforce, please consider the impact.
[2:02:19] We're here every day, we're working every day.
[2:02:21] We need the rest on the weekends, we don't often get it.
[2:02:23] We have security alarms, we have cameras, we have concerns.
[2:02:26] We're trying to be more vocal as a community in our neighborhood to speak up for ourselves,
[2:02:30] because we really want to stay.
[2:02:32] And we like what we're seeing in our neighborhood, which are more folks like us that are moving in.
[2:02:37] But the folks that rent in our neighborhood, they're not our families.
[2:02:40] Thank you for the time.
[2:02:43] Thank you, sir.
[2:02:45] Any other public comment in the chambers, Ellie?
[2:02:47] Ellie
[2:02:55] Waller, thanks again, appreciate all the comments on the bedroom issue.
[2:02:59] That's going to be something when we do the bundled or whatever we're going to call the
[2:03:04] amendment.
[2:03:06] I mean, this is a prevailing issue when I looked at the photographs and two of the little
[2:03:13] beds that were pushed up against the wall next to a pool table.
[2:03:18] Again, putting a bed in this room is important, cramming six beds to find occupancy numbers.
[2:03:28] This is where we're going to struggle.
[2:03:30] And again, this is going to take some while to get it ironed out.
[2:03:35] And I appreciate everybody still looking at it.
[2:03:38] Same as the last comments we did.
[2:03:41] This is a work in progress.
[2:03:43] We are still the best around Lake Tahoe.
[2:03:47] I attend flasks or county, I attend Washoe County, I went to the trucky meeting this time.
[2:03:53] There are some really good ideas for amendments that we haven't even looked at.
[2:03:58] So I will be bringing some of those forward as well.
[2:04:02] Don't know how that process is going to come about.
[2:04:06] We're going to do some here first, then take it to the county manager's office and then do a whole nother board thing.
[2:04:13] we don't want to stop this from going forward,
[2:04:16] but I do again appreciate the diligence
[2:04:19] on this bedroom thing.
[2:04:21] Not against these home rentals.
[2:04:23] Again, I've personal opinions about it.
[2:04:27] As you've heard, I think tens enough.
[2:04:29] These tier threes.
[2:04:31] The last one we talked about is truly
[2:04:33] the representation of a tier three.
[2:04:36] Tier threes in general.
[2:04:38] Again, by cram and bedrooms, does it make sense to me?
[2:04:41] And then I think it should be clear to the applicant on this one that the March 23rd date was provided to them.
[2:04:50] We can't just have these continue out.
[2:04:52] Understand we all have circumstances in our lives that an individual date might be a problem, but we need to make sure
[2:05:00] That doesn't get carried out too long as well. Thank you.
[2:05:05] Thank you. Any other comments from the Chambers? Any in Zoom? Thank you, Madam Chair. I do have five on Zoom that would like to make public comment.
[2:05:19] Mr. Harmon, if you can hear me, please state your name in full, and your three minutes will begin. Hello, this has been Harmon from the state line about speaking to this agenda.
[2:05:27] and I don't remember three application for tier 3 VHR
[2:05:30] in one 53-go and that springs.
[2:05:33] I want to thank your board very much for allowing us
[2:05:35] to speak, really appreciate it.
[2:05:38] I've spoken to the Douglas County Commission
[2:05:40] for several occasions during the crafting
[2:05:42] of the VHR regulations over the last couple of years.
[2:05:45] Granting a tier 3 permit that granted springs property
[2:05:48] would go against everything that we've been trying
[2:05:50] to accomplish.
[2:05:51] This is a purely commercial operation
[2:05:53] located in the heart of a residential neighborhood
[2:05:55] but be close proximity to the homes of full-time residents,
[2:05:59] some with young children.
[2:06:00] This property already has a significant impact on the neighborhood.
[2:06:04] Bars is an otherwise quiet neighborhood
[2:06:05] accessed by a loop road with no-through public traffic.
[2:06:10] Vehicular access to this property impacts
[2:06:12] entire neighborhood as it is located
[2:06:14] in the center of the loop.
[2:06:16] This house occupies an elevated position
[2:06:19] where the deck and sound carries very far.
[2:06:21] I live almost one and a half blocks from this property
[2:06:24] and I've been disturbed by noise from the property and several occasions.
[2:06:28] I've chosen not to walk past the house and occupy by large groups of people drinking.
[2:06:32] I cannot imagine what it must be like for those that live closer.
[2:06:37] A previous speaker made a generic argument in paper of education rentals referring to the economic importance.
[2:06:42] I agree with the speaker commercial rental income is important for tax revenue.
[2:06:47] We can accomplish this however without locating commercial operations in residential neighborhoods.
[2:06:52] Another earlier speaker stated that remote property owners are able to screen tenants and
[2:06:57] ensure good actors.
[2:06:59] With the exception of Tier 1 VHRs, I believe this is a partially asked portable assertion.
[2:07:04] My mother and I live at two separate houses, both in lower Kingsburg.
[2:07:09] Between us, we live in a hearing distance of six VHRs, and every one of them has had inconsiderate
[2:07:15] tenants on multiple occasions.
[2:07:17] The property of 153 granite springs is one of those.
[2:07:19] It has already been demonstrated that the corporation that owns its property is incapable
[2:07:24] or unwilling to ensure that the tenants treat our neighborhood with consideration.
[2:07:29] The fact that they are still advertising a 20-person occupancy tells us what degree respect
[2:07:35] they hold for official agencies and regulations.
[2:07:38] It isn't hard to extrapolate how much respect they have for those of us that do not carry
[2:07:42] the weight of the law.
[2:07:43] granting this commercial business a permit to continue the impact of let's
[2:07:48] call it what it is. A multi-occupied motel in a quiet neighborhood would be a
[2:07:53] very sad outcome. After two years of public county and task force effort to
[2:07:58] improve life for residents like us. 30 seconds. Thank you. Thank
[2:08:09] you Mr. Harmon next.
[2:08:14] Shavon if you can hear me please state your name and full and your three
[2:08:18] minutes will begin. Good afternoon my name is Dr. Shavon
[2:08:22] On Heracle, I am the owner of one place, this is Granite Springs.
[2:08:26] I was the former owner at 112 Meadow Drive and I have lived in the Granite Springs neighborhood
[2:08:32] for more than eight years.
[2:08:34] I strongly object to this application.
[2:08:38] I echo the comments and sentiments from my neighbor, Dr. Clint Pervance and Ben Harmon and
[2:08:45] the other opening comments.
[2:08:48] The worst part of living in Tahoe is the vacation rentals.
[2:08:51] They are allowed, they are extremely disruptive to our way of life.
[2:08:58] There are six physicians who live within 350 feet of this home, and it is an absolute
[2:09:06] nightmare to have a vacation rental like this in our quiet peaceful neighborhood.
[2:09:11] This house is located on a curb, up a hill on a narrow road, and noise from these vacation
[2:09:18] Reynolds travels very far at least a block and a half. I would like to also state that
[2:09:26] the CCNRs for the Granite Springs Neighborhood, which was formed in 1979, Article 5, Section
[2:09:34] 14, specifically states that no commercial building or multiple family dwellings shall
[2:09:41] be permitted. So we did not choose to live in a hotel corridor. And this is happening
[2:09:47] and it has to stop. We need this board to stand up for our neighborhood and the full-time
[2:09:54] residents who live here and to put into this madness. Thank you.
[2:10:00] Thank you. Thank you. David, if you can hear me, please state your name and your three minutes will begin.
[2:10:13] Good afternoon. I'm David Brock. I'm the sole owner and full-time resident of 1-18 Delissa Court, which is the closest property to 153 Granite Springs and directly across the driveway from the property under consideration.
[2:10:29] I bought this house in 2001, so I've lived here for more than 20 years.
[2:10:35] I'm a musician and I'm self-employed and I work out of my house.
[2:10:41] In most recent several years my neighbors and I have been impacted negatively by the
[2:10:48] vacation and home rentals, and particular this property, you know, essentially in effect
[2:10:54] the conversion of a single residence into a commercial property has had negative consequences for us.
[2:11:02] I can just personally witness to the impact of having 8, 10, 12 cars parked on the street
[2:11:12] to a lot of well meant, but noisy gatherings both inside and outside the house,
[2:11:21] cigarette butts in my garden, my irrigation system near the curb of the road I
[2:11:29] have to repair regularly because it gets parked on and driven on. Then there's
[2:11:36] dog excrement that gets left as a little parting gift. And also the issue about
[2:11:44] sound and noise is rather substantial. Particularly for those of you who do not
[2:11:50] live up at the lake, it's important to remind you that most of the houses in our neighborhood
[2:11:55] do not have air conditioning. Mine does, along with a filtration system, and that's primarily
[2:12:03] to protect my allergies and also musical instruments. But most of the houses do not.
[2:12:09] And the vacation rental does not have air conditioning last time that I visited.
[2:12:14] And as such, the windows are open a lot, particularly in the warmer months.
[2:12:19] And so, even if there's gatherings indoors, the ambient sound permeates the entire neighborhood.
[2:12:26] And because it's being used commercially primarily, I mean there are family reunions that happen,
[2:12:33] but for every one of those there's also a bachelor or a bachelor at party.
[2:12:38] And the noise every week is substantial and continuing.
[2:12:44] And it was not this way when I bought my house.
[2:12:48] It was originally occupied by Mickey and Sarah Thomas of Jefferson Starship and it was
[2:12:57] originally owned by one family and it's been converted in such time into higher density
[2:13:03] and very active use.
[2:13:05] I'd like to recommend against having a tier 3 approved for permanent use.
[2:13:13] Thank you for your time.
[2:13:16] Thank you, Ms. Damien.
[2:13:21] Martin, if you can hear me, please state your name and full and your three minutes will begin.
[2:13:25] Hello, this is Martin Cercio.
[2:13:28] I live at 152 Granite Springs Drive, so right next door to David Brock and diagonally across the street from the property in question.
[2:13:38] I work from home after finishing law school and my parents who are both dentists live at home
[2:13:45] and our full-time residence, we've been in the house since 1991.
[2:13:51] That being said, very interesting, Dr. Chvalov, I pronounce your name correctly.
[2:13:57] We were unaware of any CCNRs for this neighborhood because it's not an HOA at this point,
[2:14:03] but that's good to know maybe there's something there.
[2:14:06] I think as more of a note, considering this property and any properties that we want to think
[2:14:11] about in Tier 3, that's only above 10 occupants.
[2:14:15] So as much as some of us want to delve really deep into the number of bedrooms, 14 versus
[2:14:20] 18, it's either a number of occupants, they're still the matter of the certification and
[2:14:27] tier being based off of number of occupants, not number of bedrooms.
[2:14:32] If they converted the entire thing into one giant bedroom, it could be one bedroom sleeping
[2:14:37] 20.
[2:14:38] Focus on that.
[2:14:40] As far as the noise complaints in this area, there are other rental houses, not particularly
[2:14:46] this property that I hear more volume from.
[2:14:49] I work at home, so I am hearing it.
[2:14:51] I'm sure David's next door listening as well.
[2:14:54] The parking, as far as the parking in this area, it is very true.
[2:14:59] it does have an in.
[2:15:00] That's not something on its own that should warrant a permit not being granted. You can grant a permit for this resident's condition on a maximum number of four cars, two being in the garage and two being in the driveway. You can say no street parking allowed for this permit and that would take care of the parking issue. You can have the outdoor audibles to be able to take care of noise differences.
[2:15:26] It can be on a time period because I know for ourself, we're on our back deck and we can hear all sorts of other properties all around, never once have we had to call and call in the noise complaint, never once have I been kept awake at night.
[2:15:45] I will say it is with complete merit that all of us would like to be able to freely roam our neighborhood without
[2:15:54] You know, alcoholism and excessive volume and all these other things, but we do live in
[2:16:00] a tourist town that is the main driver of our community.
[2:16:04] And so I think we need to consider what we can do to make this property mix and gel with
[2:16:13] our area rather than simply getting rid of it.
[2:16:18] I would know that for a house this size to find somebody to be able to buy it and use
[2:16:23] the property is going to be very difficult as it is, I think, that our community benefits
[2:16:29] more from renting it.
[2:16:34] Thank you.
[2:16:38] Mr. David?
[2:16:38] Peter, if you can hear me, please state your name and full in your three minutes will begin.
[2:16:48] My name is Dr. Peter Proto.
[2:16:50] I live at one or four-minute drive, the base of Grants Springs Drive and the Grants Springs
[2:16:54] Neighborhood.
[2:16:56] I'll keep it short.
[2:16:57] I echo all the sentiments of my neighbors who are against increasing the tier of this
[2:17:04] home.
[2:17:04] This home is very problematic.
[2:17:07] In addition to what's already been stated, these cars drive very fast down, that'll drive
[2:17:12] to get the granite springs, often pass granite springs and go to the zooming past towards the
[2:17:17] forest which is an area the young kids have been able to play in because there are no cars
[2:17:21] there. It was called the sack where there's just one other house. In addition to what has
[2:17:26] been said yet, this house greatly affects the forest behind the house. I often pick up broken
[2:17:31] pieces of sleds from the family that occupies that house every single week.
[2:17:40] And the parking is really
[2:17:41] the biggest issue as well as the noise. I just don't think our neighborhood is the neighborhood to
[2:17:46] have these giant vacation rentals. Thank you.
[2:17:52] Thank you, Ms. Damien.
[2:17:56] Peter, if you can hear me, please state your name and full in your three minutes.
[2:18:07] Did you hear me?
[2:18:09] I'm sorry. I meant Phil. Phil, if you can hear me, please state
[2:18:13] your name and full in your three minutes will begin. Phil,
[2:18:29] can you hear me? If you
[2:18:30] can hear me, please state your name and full and your three minutes will begin.
[2:18:33] Yeah,
[2:18:43] sorry. I'm sorry. Can you hear me now? We can. Thank you. Okay. So, sorry, I guess I had technical difficulties.
[2:18:53] Fill all of Erie, 150 Granite Springs Drive. I live one house down and across the street from 153 and I am a full-time resident.
[2:19:06] Historically, in my six years here as a resident, 1.5.3 has been very disruptive to our neighborhood,
[2:19:12] with increased traffic speeding up and down Green Springs Drive during both summer and winter months,
[2:19:19] including noise violations, parking violations, and garbage disposal violations.
[2:19:25] Traffic increases not only include the supposed six cars they are allowed, but also numerous visitors
[2:19:31] that come and go to visit the occupants, and many times stay overnight.
[2:19:37] Noise in that large amounts of renters are on the back deck during the summer, and their
[2:19:42] voices can be heard up and down, grand and springs, and metal stride.
[2:19:47] In fact, this past winter, a few weeks ago, they had a slide racing contest where they hooked
[2:19:54] up a boom box and a megaphone to announce what was going on.
[2:20:00] On with the sled races, which was something that we as neighbors did not appreciate to listen to, for the long hours of the afternoon and into the evening. Garbage disposal issues, which included the cleaning company leaving multiple bags of garbage on the street while they clean, which attracts bears, and that causes very much commotion in the neighborhood. They recently installed a bear box, but it is not used consistently. As residents use the garbage,
[2:20:29] garbage for garbage storage and the cleaning company just leaves the bags on the street
[2:20:36] until they're good and ready to load them in their truck and take them off.
[2:20:40] We've had parking and that they have a blatant disregard for VHR parking rules as exhibited
[2:20:46] over the past few nights and days here, even during snow events, when plows have a problem
[2:20:53] getting up and down the street with these multiple cars we had called the DCSO past few nights in
[2:21:01] order to get them to get these cars to move and we thank them at least for responding.
[2:21:07] The above is caused the full-time residents of Granite Springs much angst and it should not be up
[2:21:14] to the full-time residents to police these issues but the occupant renters and the county regulations
[2:21:21] unfortunately leave us no choice.
[2:21:24] In terms of the applicant, it certainly seems that the board is willing to give the applicant a lot of latitude.
[2:21:33] I want to ask, why isn't there a property manager?
[2:21:38] How are they able to rent and be a VHR without a property manager?
[2:21:44] And why hasn't the property been advertised correctly?
[2:21:48] So,
[2:21:55] I would say in closing, if you will, it is for these reasons and others mentioned
[2:22:03] by Grandest Springs neighbors that I recommended a denial of the Tier 3 application and a deep
[2:22:11] down review of the current Tier 2 status that they enjoy due to the ongoing violations mentioned
[2:22:19] above.
[2:22:19] Thank you for your time.
[2:22:22] I'm through.
[2:22:25] Thank you.
[2:22:27] Madam Chair, I have two callers that only to ask if they have public comment.
[2:22:34] Collar of the last four digits, 7600, did you want to make public comment on this item?
[2:23:00] Collar with last four digits of 3091, did you want to make public comment on this item?
[2:23:31] Is there any more public comment?
[2:23:34] there is no further public comment madam chair thank you all
[2:23:45] right keeping in
[2:23:47] mind that the owner permanent holder is not here and we've gotten a lot of
[2:23:53] feedback from residents I believe our next step is to defer voting on this until
[2:24:04] our next meeting, which is March 23rd, is this someone want to make a motion?
[2:24:14] Madam Chair, I move we defer this agenda item to March 23rd, and
[2:24:20] that all of us consider all of the information provided by the public at that time.
[2:24:27] Mr. Taylor?
[2:24:28] Yes, Madam Chair, same to you with Doug's County DAs.
[2:24:31] It's important whenever you're deferring the matter, you have the date, time, and location specified in the motion,
[2:24:43] then I will draw my motion.
[2:24:44] Okay,
[2:24:50] Patty graph for the record since I will not be here for next meeting.
[2:25:00] I would like to have my comments of what I've heard from the public noted and so that you can review it for next month's meeting. Is that permissible?
[2:25:14] Okay. I have a lot of reservations about this property with the tier three, especially since they had November to get a property manager and they haven't. It kind of seems to me like they're stringing out
[2:25:29] the process, they haven't, you know, adjusted their advertising, it seems like they're trying
[2:25:36] to get away with a lot of things. And even postponing the meeting, I think there's a lot
[2:25:42] of issues that the public have brought out that barring something from the owners.
[2:25:59] I have
[2:26:00] I will make a motion that we defer this item until our meeting on March 23rd in these
[2:26:08] chambers at 1 p.m.
[2:26:12] 2022.
[2:26:14] With the caveat that we send or somehow communicate to the owner that it is highly advisable
[2:26:22] that he listens to this part of this proceeding because I think it is very enlightening and probably
[2:26:29] probably points to a lot of things that are going to be talked about when he does come.
[2:26:35] Those are any of the other stipulation I needed to add to that motion.
[2:26:40] Do I have a second?
[2:26:41] My second.
[2:26:44] Okay, we have a motion on the floor to defer this decision to the March 23rd 1 p.m.
[2:26:51] meeting at the courthouse.
[2:26:54] Madam Chair.
[2:26:55] Madam Chair.
[2:26:56] Are we sure that that meeting is going to be held here because I don't know we've been
[2:27:00] and then to negotiations to hold it at the lake.
[2:27:03] So, I just want to make sure that that might be something-
[2:27:06] So that's on me.
[2:27:07] Oh.
[2:27:11] Wow.
[2:27:12] Jennifer.
[2:27:14] So-
[2:27:20] Madam Chair, if I may, I will take this opportunity to advise the board that we are working
[2:27:25] with Tahoe Douglas Fire District, Fire Protection District to secure some meeting spaces at the
[2:27:30] lake.
[2:27:31] Based on the requirement that you, if you are to continue this item to a location certain,
[2:27:36] because I am not 100% confident that we can make that meeting space happen.
[2:27:41] My recommendation is that you set that for these chambers for a location certain.
[2:27:51] Thank you, Ms. Davidson.
[2:27:53] So we have a motion and a second to defer the vote to March 23rd at 1 p.m.
[2:28:03] in this same location.
[2:28:10] Any further discussion? All those in favor? Signify by saying aye.
[2:28:15] Aye.
[2:28:18] 5-0. Thank you.
[2:28:22] I think at this time we might want to take a little break.
[2:28:26] And I apologize to those of you that have been waiting for the next item.
[2:28:29] But we'll make it quick ten, fifteen minutes, something like that.
[2:28:35] Ten.
[2:28:36] Ten.
[2:28:37] Ten minutes. Okay. Ten minutes.
[2:28:39] Recording in progress.
[2:28:42] Recording stopped.
[2:39:07] Recording in progress.
[2:39:15] I'd like to bring the meeting back to order, please. We are on item number four.
[2:39:23] All of our members are back seated for possible action, discussion on an application to obtain a tier three vacation home rental special use permit. The subject application is for an eight bedroom home, 16 person occupancy located at 342 Marianne Drive, Zephyr Cove, Nevada.
[2:39:44] The owner is Tom Todd Lesser, 342, Marianne LLC, who currently has a Douglas County issued VHR permit, account number 0840752.
[2:40:01] 8 p.n., 1319, 18, 413, 003, Mr. Delayer.
[2:40:12] Thank you. Tom Delayer for the record. Commute development director. And, yeah, so this one, we did have some confusion with the bedroom or the number of bedrooms on it. We last minute changed the change just the staff report on this to show that it was a seven bedroom. We put those in parentheses.
[2:40:32] and it is my understanding in discussions with staff discussions with Mr.
[2:40:39] Givan, the, or Chief Givan, the fire department, the home had a room locked
[2:40:48] off at one point. So the last permit had seven. They do have eight and they weren't
[2:40:53] locking off the room to tenants. And so this is supposed to be looked at as an
[2:41:00] 8-bedroom home, 16-person occupancy is what they're asking for.
[2:41:05] I think that's verified on the application as well, but we did have two conflicting reports.
[2:41:11] We did show the other report that was, that was the inspection was performed by Chief Gaveon.
[2:41:18] And it shows that it was an 8-bedroom home and that's where the confusion came from as far as staff goes.
[2:41:25] And then if you look at the one sheet we do have the insurance, well so first let's do
[2:41:36] the complaints.
[2:41:36] So staff has checked the prior history of 342 Marianne and are in our citizen served
[2:41:43] database and we don't see any complaints there and the sheriff's office or the emergency 911
[2:41:50] and one dispatch office didn't show any complaints reported in the past 12 months.
[2:41:55] So, again, you know, the line for
[2:42:00] code enforcement is available for people to use so we can actually log whether it's a good complaint or a invalid complaint either way.
[2:42:09] We still log it and monitor those.
[2:42:12] That's our practice today.
[2:42:13] Does have state farm insurance, the liability, I coverage amount is a million dollars.
[2:42:18] Again, they're asking for a total of eight bedrooms with an occupancy of 16 is stated in the agenda item.
[2:42:27] They have a three-can bear box, weekly trash service through South Tahoe Refuge.
[2:42:33] And the adjacent neighboring home is 80 feet away, 151 feet away, and 213 feet away if you look at that.
[2:42:44] That image, again, these parcels, the Jason parcels, and I believe that one is never
[2:42:50] never.
[2:42:51] I want to say that one was US Forest Service owned on this particular piece that is vacant
[2:42:57] today.
[2:42:59] And the one above the house that's vacant is above the subject house.
[2:43:05] There's one more home just above is about 80 feet away.
[2:43:08] And then above that, that parcel is, I believe, US Forest Service owned as well.
[2:43:13] But other than that, if you have any questions, I'm available to respond.
[2:43:22] Thank you, Mr. Delayer.
[2:43:23] Anybody have questions for the Fire Marshal or for Mr. Delayer?
[2:43:29] Okay.
[2:43:29] I do for Mr. Delayer.
[2:43:32] The property that is across the street is that all force because it doesn't seem like there's individual parcels.
[2:43:41] and then also down below, pass those other homes that are 80 feet and on the other street is that it looks open land right now that I'm just wondering if that's private or public.
[2:43:58] Ms. Graff, if I may, chairwoman, Tom Delair for the record, that is my understanding that
[2:44:07] is an individual home residence on that piece of property and they must have brought up
[2:44:12] the whole block years ago and they turned it into just one parcel.
[2:44:20] Any other questions?
[2:44:22] I have it.
[2:44:23] Just to follow along, would that have been noticed, would that landowner because there's
[2:44:29] of house with that landowner have received the same letters if there was a home there.
[2:44:33] No, I think there is a home there. It's just off the screen. It's up above. Yeah,
[2:44:37] it's a larger parcel. It's around that whole block. They've bought up all the line behind
[2:44:41] and around them.
[2:44:45] What about on the on the driveway side on Marianne Drive all that property over there?
[2:44:53] Okay, so that one I believe is US Forest Service. Yeah.
[2:45:01] Anybody? Lauren? It's page page. I'm just looking at the diagram with the distances between the homes and stuff. And as I was looking at the, you look at the car in the driveway and the acceptable parking is two in the garage and then four outside. And if I look at that and I tried to take that car and put one behind it, I'm just, I'm just not sure I wasn't sure if that. And maybe that
[2:45:31] the car isn't moved up against the garage as well, but I was just curious on the dimensions
[2:45:39] are known and the dimensions were acceptable, is that, which are?
[2:45:43] Yeah, they don't show the dimensions on their plan, but it appears that they have, you
[2:45:51] know, 40 feet is what you need to have for parking stall back to back so that they're from
[2:46:02] It looks like it was close.
[2:46:08] Mr. Delay is.
[2:46:09] Page 171 sorry.
[2:46:11] Oh, sorry.
[2:46:11] Page 171.
[2:46:12] Oh, is the property owner here today?
[2:46:16] Madam Chair, the property owner is online.
[2:46:19] OK.
[2:46:20] When work, I just wanted to make sure because I had some questions for him.
[2:46:24] Anybody else have any questions for Mr. Delay or Mr. Gaidon?
[2:46:28] Lauren?
[2:46:29] Yes.
[2:46:30] There's no floor plan of the entire house.
[2:46:34] There's only, and I thought we were supposed to include a complete floor plan.
[2:46:39] Yeah, there was a problem with the PDF, and we do have, if you look at the supplemental that came in,
[2:46:47] there is, or, it's the colored diagrams, and they were provided in the supplemental, I believe, on the 18.
[2:46:58] team. I want to see the whole file. Let's see. Okay. All right. Got it. Thank you.
[2:47:05] Each floor. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. Sorry. Something happened with my file.
[2:47:11] It's page 32 of the supplemental.
[2:47:14] Yeah. Thank you.
[2:47:42] Okay. Did it was everyone able to see the floor plan? Okay. Any other question?
[2:47:50] Am I reading this right that he doesn't have a property manager that he manages it himself?
[2:48:02] Yeah, but I think I think he does have a property manager, it was about the distance.
[2:48:08] The distance that they live from the, from the, from the unit, I think is what we're
[2:48:14] having problems with on this particular one.
[2:48:17] I need to, and let me, oh, look into this because I thought I had some notes on that.
[2:48:26] While he rents the house, yeah, I asked for clarity on that as well.
[2:48:30] And you would brought it up in your comments, too, on Friday or Thursday night.
[2:48:36] And I don't know, I didn't get that reply from staff to see if we, if we've got a response to that.
[2:48:42] Sam may have, I know you reached out to this individual.
[2:48:50] If there aren't any more questions that aren't for the owner.
[2:48:55] I do have questions, so you don't have to mean.
[2:48:57] No, I want to ask questions, I mean that aren't for, I might have said that wrong.
[2:49:01] If there aren't any more questions for Mr. Delay or Mr. Gavon, let's see if we can reach
[2:49:08] the owner.
[2:49:12] Go ahead, Patty.
[2:49:12] Mr. Delayer, is on this on the property manager?
[2:49:17] Is that a licensed property manager or just like a caretaker?
[2:49:24] Well, we can ask the only Todd Lester is on the line.
[2:49:28] We can ask him and try to explain what that situation was so it's clear.
[2:49:33] I don't see, I don't see, I don't have my email, I get to open my email and see what Sam responded, I know I got a response for that and I apologize not being prepared for that answer.
[2:49:45] Let's bring him on.
[2:49:48] Mr. Lesser, if you can hear me, please state your name and full and the board will ask questions of you regarding this item.
[2:49:55] Sure, this is Todd Lesser, can you hear me?
[2:49:58] Yes, we can.
[2:49:59] Okay.
[2:49:59] Good.
[2:50:00] I have, like, one or two minutes just to say a few things before, because I probably can answer all the board's questions that they may be happy with and not have any questions. Yes, please give us your statement and then we'll ask you questions. Okay. First of all, I just want to tell you that I have been a property owner since 1991 in the neighborhood. So for over 32 years, and I've seen SOHO change, and I've owned this property and rented it out for the vast majority of the time as an eight bet.
[2:50:30] just recently I was using it this last year or part of this year for the 7th
[2:50:35] bedroom because I was using that part just for some personal things. I had to
[2:50:39] was doing some staging because I had put in a new roof and read it the garage
[2:50:44] with a coating because I was getting a little leak there which I subsequently
[2:50:48] fixed. So there is no you know I'm just gonna say the proof is in the pudding and
[2:50:54] the reason why you haven't seen me on the news, the reason why I've never been
[2:50:57] cited by the fire marshal the reason why I haven't been cited by the sheriff for parking or code
[2:51:03] enforcement or noise or anything is because I treat this home I want to be a good neighbor and
[2:51:10] I don't want my house to get trash and that's the reason why you're seeing it it's no coincidence
[2:51:17] I mean I go over and beyond the regulations I don't allow anyone to park off the property I do have
[2:51:23] the 40-foot clearance that picture you have is just, you know, I guess they didn't
[2:51:28] park close enough to the garage, but I meet those regulations and I can show you plenty
[2:51:32] of pictures. Not only do I have one of the noise monitors required, I use my newt and
[2:51:40] then I also use noise aware to make sure I have backups. In addition, I have four outdoor
[2:51:45] cameras that have microphones and record everything that goes on. So if anyone's speeding on
[2:51:52] on Marianne, I will have a video of it.
[2:51:56] If there is anyone making any noise,
[2:51:58] I have a video of it.
[2:52:00] If I'm so hyper-vigilant at nine o'clock,
[2:52:05] I check personally, or I have my assistant check it up
[2:52:08] for some reason I'm unavailable,
[2:52:09] to go and make sure no one is barbecuing in the spa,
[2:52:14] on the deck, or doing anything outside the property
[2:52:18] because of this.
[2:52:19] And like I said, I'm hyper-vigilant.
[2:52:21] This is a wooded half acre property with a lot of forest service around and you still have had,
[2:52:27] you know, no complaints. I don't have it. You can see the floor plan. It's not crammed in. I
[2:52:32] follow the universal electrical code. Um, I've, you know, it's just on all levels. I mean, there,
[2:52:39] you can read my VRBO. I mean, our Airbnb, I have five all five star ratings. I mean, I pride myself.
[2:52:47] This is a pride of ownership property to make sure that the renters are happy that it's affordable for families
[2:52:55] That can't afford to go, you know, if you want to have eight bedrooms
[2:52:58] You want to you want to go stay at the hook at one of the hotels and rent eight rooms. Most people can't do that
[2:53:04] So I I try to get small families
[2:53:07] I don't rent to people under the age of 25 because I don't want frat parties or strippers or
[2:53:13] bachelor parties or illegal activities. They trash the home. I mean, I know it. I've seen it.
[2:53:19] I managed the property myself. Frankly, I used other property managers. They were leaving the
[2:53:25] properties unlocked. They've got 300 properties to watch. I can be hyper vigilant because I do this
[2:53:31] myself. But I still have backups. I have my assistant backs up. I make sure I actually have another person
[2:53:38] that they are not a licensed property manager that lives close, I live there and when I'm renting
[2:53:44] it out, I use my motor home and I'm within a half hour of complaints and that's why you haven't
[2:53:50] seen any complaints of this. You know, I bring in $16,500 of rental tax and I know you guys look at
[2:53:58] the budget. I know you don't want to cut $16,500 out of some other budget item. Not only that,
[2:54:03] that it brings in revenue for, you know, the restaurants, it helps provide employment,
[2:54:09] you know, for the whole area.
[2:54:11] And, you know, the only person, frankly, and I'm going to be very upfront with is sometimes
[2:54:15] with Mr. McIntyre.
[2:54:17] Nevertheless, he has my cell phone, he has my assistant cell phone, along with everyone
[2:54:22] on my neighbors, and I keep it on with me 24 hours a day.
[2:54:27] But as you're aware, you know, cell phones don't always, you know, work in the area, so that's
[2:54:33] why they have multiple numbers to call and I'm available.
[2:54:37] And, you know, if he's stepped up something specifically,
[2:54:41] give me the date and time and we can look at the,
[2:54:44] you know, the cameras together even with the district attorney.
[2:54:48] I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is.
[2:54:50] I mean, I know he, you know, he's a nice man.
[2:54:54] I know he wants Tahoe the way it was, you know, 40 years ago,
[2:54:57] but it isn't.
[2:54:58] I mean, as you're aware, Tahoe...
[2:55:00] Those got nice serve. I mean, the village down there at state line, used to not be so nice. Well, now you have the embassy suites, you have the gondola. It's grown. You don't want this to turn into a place where people who have to stay at a hotel and rent eight bedrooms with small families. You can't do that with young kids. You need a cabin to rent too. I mean, I think that I should be the model of what you should do for vacation rentals, tier three or even tier two.
[2:55:30] And I urge you to do more with enforcement, I would love for you to cite people that make a lot of noise. So Tahoe does that. I don't want people driving fast on my street.
[2:55:41] I don't want to have to worry about driving in the village and get hit by a drunk driver. I've been rear-ended by a drunk driver. I'm very hypersensitive to that.
[2:55:48] So yes, in my senior name, I yes you are
[2:55:54] Can we ask you a couple questions?
[2:55:57] Absolutely. I so you manage the property yourself. Yes, you live in Douglas County. Yes
[2:56:09] I'm actually at the property when I'm not renting it out because it's you know sometimes frankly
[2:56:13] I rented out as a three-bedroom with Airbnb
[2:56:15] be you don't have to rent the whole house and there's four floors. So if I rent out the top layer
[2:56:20] floor, I'm down below. I can hear the noise. I will walk up and say, look, you guys got to
[2:56:25] keep it down. I mean, that's why I'm able to have no fire marshal complaints, no sheriff complaints,
[2:56:31] no code enforcement complaints because I make sure out the whole home at times. Right. And when I do,
[2:56:38] I stay within a half hour and I'm in my motor home. And I can drive straight there. And for some reason,
[2:56:46] And then code and force, you know, they can, I mean, it's never been an issue for 18 years.
[2:56:50] Is your legal address in Douglas County?
[2:56:54] Yes, it's 342 Marianne, it's my legal address.
[2:57:00] I don't get mail there, I get in Gardnerville because there's no postal delivery there, but I get packages there.
[2:57:06] Yeah, right, so I'm just telling you, I get packages there, but you know it's my mailing address, isn't Gardnerville.
[2:57:12] So that is your permanent address.
[2:57:15] Yes.
[2:57:16] Yes,
[2:57:18] because the assessor's page shows your address and you're on the wrong line.
[2:57:28] I think it's in San Diego.
[2:57:30] Yes, I have property in San Diego and my book keepers there and all the bills get all
[2:57:35] mailed to there because that's one of my offices.
[2:57:39] Okay.
[2:57:42] And I did that for the very reason because there was no, you know, mailing at 342
[2:57:49] Marianne for the last 18 years. And I didn't bother renting, you know, a post-Abalancing
[2:57:56] Gardnerville until this last year.
[2:57:59] Okay. I want to make a comment to the audience real quick that when the permit holder is giving
[2:58:06] in his speech testimony or whatever, we don't have a time limit on that.
[2:58:11] Time limits are just for public speaking and public audiences.
[2:58:16] So each, just like when the two women from the first agenda item,
[2:58:21] you know, they get to have the amount of time they need.
[2:58:24] And if it gets repetitive, then I will ask them that we've heard enough.
[2:58:29] So now I'd like to go to the board and have questions asked of Mr. Lesser.
[2:58:36] who wants to go?
[2:58:38] Keith?
[2:58:39] Mr. Lesser, so when you normally, when less than the full house is rented, you stay
[2:58:46] at the house.
[2:58:47] You said?
[2:58:48] That's correct.
[2:58:49] I mean sometimes I travel, obviously, but yes.
[2:58:53] Okay.
[2:58:53] So you do travel and sometimes, I mean, I'm not going to say I'm never there, but when I'm
[2:59:00] not there, I make sure I've got the house covered or I don't frankly rent it out.
[2:59:04] I mean, it just depends.
[2:59:06] And you said you stay in a motor home when you do rent the entire house out if you're
[2:59:09] not traveling.
[2:59:11] Yeah.
[2:59:11] Where do you park?
[2:59:12] Where is that motor home when you're not using it and where do you park it when someone
[2:59:17] has rented out the whole house?
[2:59:18] You know, sometimes I drive, you know, I've got friends that live in Gardnerville.
[2:59:23] I've got friends that live in Carson City and I can park in their driveway.
[2:59:26] I've got friends that even live farther out in El Dorado Hills.
[2:59:29] You know, like I said, for, you know, I've been there 31 years, I have a lot of people and
[2:59:33] I'm just, you know, it's rarely as it fully rented out,
[2:59:37] but you know, like during the holiday times it is,
[2:59:40] and it just depends.
[2:59:42] And so you live in their driveway,
[2:59:43] your friends drive?
[2:59:44] Yeah, pretty much.
[2:59:47] Okay,
[2:59:51] let's go ahead.
[2:59:55] Michael, how do you do up any questions?
[3:00:00] Lauren? I do. When I look at the assessor's office, assessor's page, you have your zone for a one dwelling unit. And on Section E1, a separate permit is required for each vacation home rental. A permit may only be issued to the owners of the unit permits are limited to one per family. VHR permits are limited to the allowable per
[3:00:29] the property zoning designation which is one building. So my understanding of what was adopted
[3:00:38] in code was that you have one dwelling. That one dwelling can either be a VHR or it can be your own
[3:00:47] personal place where you live or can be empty but it can't be two things at the same time.
[3:00:56] Is my understanding of that section?
[3:00:59] I mean, I would defer to the district attorney.
[3:01:01] I disagree with your reading.
[3:01:03] I think it's one dwelling.
[3:01:05] I still think it meets all the code requirements for that.
[3:01:08] But with Airbnb, you can rent out just the specific room
[3:01:11] and I don't think that violates anything
[3:01:13] and zoning or any of the rules.
[3:01:15] And if I'm wrong, then every day I rent it out.
[3:01:18] I'll just be in my motorhome.
[3:01:20] You tell me what you want to do.
[3:01:21] But respectfully, I think you're reading the code incorrectly
[3:01:24] because I think it's allowed, it's talking about one dwelling, not necessarily occupancy.
[3:01:29] I'm going to ask Mr. Taylor to respond to this.
[3:01:36] Sam Taylor for the record Douglas Kennedy DA's office, I will note that we specifically
[3:01:41] have a tier one rental which allows a person to reside on the property and rent out a portion
[3:01:48] of their property, so specifically that use can actually, those two things can happen
[3:01:55] at the same time.
[3:01:56] In fact, I think Michael has a tier one as well, correct?
[3:02:03] But still a tier one, correct?
[3:02:05] Still a tier one, correct?
[3:02:07] Yeah, living on the same parcel.
[3:02:10] Right.
[3:02:10] And the concept is that basically if you want to rent out a portion of your house, you can do so
[3:02:16] as a tier one, or you can rent out all your house as a tier two or a tier three.
[3:02:22] So the question then becomes, is it's own property, if it's residential zoning, then
[3:02:27] it's proper.
[3:02:28] You can also have a BHR in the commercial zone as well, technically.
[3:02:35] The whole reason for this part that was added to the section was to stop, so I'm not sure
[3:02:42] what's in the section that he cordons off. But if he has, if you have another living area
[3:02:48] within a unit, now you're basically, yes, it's two dwellings versus one dwelling, which
[3:02:57] is what the assessor has for the zoning. Maybe zoning isn't the right proper. In Michael's
[3:03:03] case, he's got two dwellings allowed on a parcel, so he can do that. But when you're talking
[3:03:09] about one dwelling. We've got people that are living in places that don't have addresses
[3:03:16] that don't have that are renting those places out. I mean, that's what this was talking
[3:03:20] about was the zoning is one dwelling. Therefore, there can only be one separate dwelling at
[3:03:26] a time. Is that not how you read up?
[3:03:29] Sorry.
[3:03:30] I mean, with all due respect, I mean, it's still one dwelling. It's different if I had two
[3:03:37] two cooking areas, two areas to do that, that's not the case, but a bedroom is not considered
[3:03:42] a separate dwelling.
[3:03:43] Are you living separately from the people you're renting to?
[3:03:48] Yes, but I don't have a kitchen in that area.
[3:03:50] It's just a room and I have an outdoor door, but it's not a, it's not considered a dwelling
[3:03:56] a room.
[3:03:56] Just a dwelling from the code is defined as a place where you have cooking facilities, you
[3:04:05] have totally separate facilities that's like a kitchen and that's how that's the difference between
[3:04:10] like a multi-family and single family and frankly the kitchen is really the litmus test and I don't
[3:04:17] have a separate you know cooking area I just have a bedroom so I go out to eat you know or you know
[3:04:25] when I do that or or I you know I've got a little mini fridge I just put that in there but there's
[3:04:31] there's no kitchen, so I don't file it in any of those groups, and I think it's very
[3:04:34] important to look at what the code requires and what they're applying for one or two
[3:04:41] dwellings.
[3:04:42] And we are working through some gray areas in the code to which we have right now.
[3:04:46] When you are staying there and you rent it out and where do you park?
[3:04:52] You know, a lot of times I'll park it because you know and drive back up, it really just depends
[3:04:57] on where I can park in the garage.
[3:04:58] it really depends.
[3:05:00] On how many cars they have, and I'll ask people, because like I said, the reason I've had no complaints is because I don't allow more than six cars there. And six cars is, you know, more than enough. And I tell people if you want to have more than six cars, if I'm there, you know, one of us has to go park at the casino and have a friend drive them up or take a cab or are over or I tell people it's not the house for you. And trust me, I turned down this
[3:05:29] house to a lot of renters and that's why you don't have the complaints. I mean Mr. McIntyre
[3:05:37] Will and I'd like to address his complaints afterwards because I mean frankly they're
[3:05:41] unfounded and I'm sorry he thinks he can violate the rules as far as letting his dog
[3:05:46] walk without a leash and come on my property and go to the bathroom and I have to clean it
[3:05:51] up but we can address that later and you know but I'm trying to keep this positive.
[3:06:01] I just wanted to clarify something that I think is creating issues here.
[3:06:08] Is my understanding based on what the applicant is saying is that he's not subdividing his house.
[3:06:14] In other words, he doesn't have two units.
[3:06:17] In other words, you can access entirety of his house.
[3:06:20] There's not portions blocked off that prevent you from getting from one area to another.
[3:06:26] But so it isn't like he's got basically a main house, and then he's blocked off another area that only can be accessed from the outside that does not appear to be what what he has, is that?
[3:06:40] Yes, it is what he has. He blocks off and he lives in one section, and then he rents out if he doesn't rent out the whole house, he will live in that other section.
[3:06:49] No. No, I'm saying physically blocked off. In other words, he doesn't, I just asked him if he lives with the people he rents with and he said no.
[3:06:56] It is physically blocked off.
[3:06:58] Is that correct?
[3:07:00] Okay. He's misinterpreting the term of a door on a bedroom.
[3:07:05] And an outside door is physically blocked off.
[3:07:08] This is a floor bedroom house, our floor floor house.
[3:07:11] You don't have to, I have lots of exterior doors.
[3:07:15] It doesn't, you don't have to physically block off and I just, all I can say is, I respectfully
[3:07:21] you look at the Universal Building Code and look at what the regulations require, what
[3:07:27] is considered a separate dwelling and a bedroom that someone's lifting in that has an exterior
[3:07:33] door and you close the door, does not consider a separate dwelling.
[3:07:38] Or if I, remember if I'm renting the top two floors and I'm in the bottom two and I go
[3:07:42] at a back door and don't disturb them that is not considered under the code a separate dwelling.
[3:07:49] I understand what you're saying and I understand the code for Douglas County but what we talked
[3:07:56] about for the code for VHRs and the reason that we have it here now is the wording actually going to
[3:08:04] have the effect that we were going for. I don't know that's what we're talking about but what this
[3:08:10] part was talking about is property zoning designation with dwellings. Now you do not live
[3:08:16] with the people you rent with, correct? You're not, you're not, it's a separate area.
[3:08:22] Okay. Using the term living with is not a legal definition. So I think I would defer to the
[3:08:30] district attorney and if he's, and he's going to tell you that there is a, that the living with
[3:08:37] is not, you know, it's one thing if I have a permanent wall and it's separated, that's a separate dwelling.
[3:08:44] Closing a door, or not walking upstairs, is not a separate dwelling.
[3:08:50] Mr. Justice, let's have Mr. Taylor respond, please.
[3:08:55] Yeah, essentially what you're looking at, again, Sam Taylor for the record, essentially what you're looking at,
[3:09:00] and you're trying to determine whether or not this is a separate accessory dwelling on the same property
[3:09:07] that would require separate permit for them to basically occupy it.
[3:09:12] If the bedroom is just, you access a different bedroom from an outside door, that would not
[3:09:17] necessarily be an accessory dwelling.
[3:09:21] It's also, I mean, in fact, Mr. Delair, I think, can answer this even more specifically in
[3:09:26] terms of how they would characterize it.
[3:09:29] And that is quite frankly the distinction.
[3:09:32] So I'd like to hear from Mr. Delair on this subject.
[3:09:45] Mr. Lesser, which floor do you occupy in which room when you're there?
[3:09:53] If we're looking at the floor plan that you gave us.
[3:09:56] If you look at the floor plan, it's actually on the first one that was provided.
[3:10:00] Room under the garage.
[3:10:03] So, I guess that, I'm not sure if I think that's labeled as third floor, or second floor? Okay.
[3:10:08] Floor below, is that what we're- Yes, second floor below, right? There is a room under the garage.
[3:10:12] There's a pretty bed room is down there and a living room.
[3:10:16] Yeah, I actually have a living room on every floor except the top floor is the master bedroom.
[3:10:22] The next floor is the one where the driveway is that has a living room, a kitchen, and two bedrooms.
[3:10:30] and then you go down. There's the room under the garage room and then you've got several bedrooms down there and that room also has a living room and then down below is the bottom floor and that has a couple bedrooms and and another, you know, sitting area.
[3:11:03] I believe so. Yes. I guess I could try to pull it up on there to see what would I describe it as.
[3:11:13] Yeah, the double barrage and in the second floor, it looks like to me it would be the place right
[3:11:19] that under the garage?
[3:11:20] Yes, that is the room.
[3:11:22] I just can't remember what I called it on the diagram.
[3:11:25] But yes, that is the one right below the garage.
[3:11:27] Thank you.
[3:11:28] Madam Chair.
[3:11:30] I think when we were on the committee,
[3:11:32] I think our main concern was,
[3:11:34] is that people were building a demizing wall
[3:11:37] and renting out two units in one area.
[3:11:40] I don't think it was the homeowner actually staying there.
[3:11:42] There wasn't really the concern.
[3:11:44] It was the concern that you can't separate it
[3:11:46] and rent them out as two separate listings.
[3:11:50] So I think that's the key that we are looking at there.
[3:11:52] And I don't know if that helps at all.
[3:11:54] And I don't know, I think Lauren,
[3:11:56] that might help what you were looking at.
[3:11:58] But, you know, for the owner to stay there is actually a,
[3:12:01] it's a positive thing.
[3:12:02] So, it is something that we looked at.
[3:12:06] Thank you, Mr. Gaidon.
[3:12:08] Mr. Lesser, do you rent?
[3:12:10] Do you advertise the house for both eight bedrooms
[3:12:13] and three bedrooms?
[3:12:16] I actually advertised the house as 8 bedrooms, as 5 bedrooms, and as 3 bedrooms, and sometimes
[3:12:24] during the, you know, offseason, and for a while I had it, obviously, a 7 bedroom, but what
[3:12:30] it is is that, you know, sometimes midweek, you don't have a family, you just want someone
[3:12:36] who wants to be in quiet area, and they like to walk around the forest, and I rented out
[3:12:42] is a three-bedroom and frankly it's really a one-bedroom because they live, they stay in,
[3:12:48] a lot of times it's a couple and they stay in the upstairs master bedroom but since they walk in
[3:12:53] from the street level there's two bedrooms there in the kitchen and so they just stay upstairs
[3:13:00] and it was basically it was just sort of a creative way to rent out the house more.
[3:13:04] Right, I get it. So basically if this tier three was denied and you went down to a five-bed
[3:13:12] boom. It would really not change your life significantly. Oh, no, it's significantly hurt my revenue.
[3:13:19] Yeah, I mean, it wouldn't, I mean, hugely. I mean, you would cut probably, you know, it's the
[3:13:25] weekday rentals, but I don't charge that much. A lot of times I'll rent it for $200, you know,
[3:13:29] just so I have the room rented. But, oh, yeah, it'll cut revenue by 75% if you did that.
[3:13:37] Okay. Just quickly in this area that is a separate area, what else besides the beds are there?
[3:13:46] Just the beds. I have a little refrigerator.
[3:13:50] And my grave. And that's it?
[3:13:57] Okay, so and I'm sorry that the internet isn't coming up. But I believe on
[3:14:04] in Airbnb or something or other,
[3:14:08] there's actually counterspace and a stove.
[3:14:11] Okay, that's actually in one of the kind of family areas.
[3:14:17] Again, that's not in that room.
[3:14:19] That's in another area.
[3:14:20] So you have two stoves in the area in which you rent?
[3:14:25] That's on the bottom floor next to the pool table.
[3:14:28] It's kind of like a bar.
[3:14:30] So when people are playing pool or air hockey,
[3:14:33] You know, they don't have to walk up, you know, two floors and that's what that's for.
[3:14:40] And so that section when you don't rent out the whole house is that section part of the part that's rented or the part that you live in.
[3:14:48] It's not the part I live in because I don't really, I don't, that's actually, it is two floors or it's a, yeah, it's a floor down below.
[3:14:58] So, I just...
[3:15:00] I mean, I just don't go down there. I mean, it's a lot of times it depends on the person. Sometimes I let the people that if they're renting the upper floor, I let them go down if they want to play pool, but I generally don't want to clean it, but I just leave that empty.
[3:15:18] I mean, it cost me a lot to clean it, especially with COVID regulations. It's just better just to leave it empty, so I don't have to clean it again. Thank you. Unless there's some more questions for the permit holder,
[3:15:31] I would it's going to call for public comment Michael right just just to clarify the stoves
[3:15:37] There's two built-in stoves in this no, I don't think it's even a built-in stove
[3:15:43] I mean it or it is it's just sort of it's a it's sitting there people use it to kind of make popcorn
[3:15:50] You know, it was like that when I bought the house. I mean everyone uses I've got a nice wolf oven upstairs
[3:15:56] It's just like a little single burner that I think you know
[3:16:00] people tend to use when they're just partying down there.
[3:16:04] I mean, it's not a full kitchen.
[3:16:06] There's no dishwasher.
[3:16:08] There isn't all the other stuff.
[3:16:11] And frankly, if the county wants me to take that out,
[3:16:15] I'll take that out.
[3:16:16] I've never had a complaint.
[3:16:18] The fire marshal had been fine with it.
[3:16:21] The building inspector has been fine with it.
[3:16:23] I've just kind of left it there.
[3:16:24] I didn't put it in.
[3:16:25] It was there when I bought it 18 years ago.
[3:16:28] but it's not essential to the House.
[3:16:31] Michael, did you have a follow-up or anything?
[3:16:35] Why don't we do public comment?
[3:16:37] We can come back to the board with more questions or comments afterwards
[3:16:41] so that we don't keep some of these people here forever.
[3:16:50] So we'll call public comment.
[3:16:52] Come up to the podium.
[3:16:53] State your name.
[3:16:53] right? Write your name, state your name, and we'll start your three minutes. You
[3:16:58] you will be given three minutes.
[3:17:11] I want Mr. Lesser slandering me like he has
[3:17:14] Mr. McIntyre. I've lived in that neighborhood for 45 years. I walk by there
[3:17:23] every day. I've never seen anything remotely representing Mr. Lesser on the
[3:17:32] property. And I would like you all to acknowledge that he said that he has four bedrooms there.
[3:17:41] That's on the record. So I want a level whatever four bedrooms warrants because that's what
[3:17:53] he just said that he has. And I live below. And the deck goes all the way around the back
[3:18:02] to that house. And in the summer like it's been reported down on granted springs when
[3:18:09] everybody's got everything open. It carries. So that's when I hear things is in the summer
[3:18:16] and the fall. And it's a party house. Let's just say it for what it is. And that's my
[3:18:25] two cents. Thanks, City Council. Thank you, sir. Any other comments from the gallery?
[3:18:43] Tom Serena. I live in the same neighborhood. I live in a little bit different elevation
[3:18:48] of what John does. Excuse me. If I'm having trouble hearing him, I'm sorry. We're having some
[3:18:54] and trouble hearing you.
[3:18:55] Maybe you could get closer to the microphone
[3:18:57] or watch better.
[3:19:00] Okay.
[3:19:00] Anyway, I live in the same neighborhood.
[3:19:02] I lived about a quarter mile away
[3:19:03] from Mr. Nestor's house.
[3:19:05] And as John says, that sound is scary.
[3:19:08] It carries up and down and back and forth.
[3:19:11] And he's got a big house.
[3:19:13] He's got a lot of people here all the time.
[3:19:15] I get offended by all that noise coming from that house.
[3:19:20] But wherever you're at,
[3:19:21] whether you're three miles away down the bottom of the hill
[3:19:24] and granite springs, or up in Canterbury Village where this house is and where I live.
[3:19:31] You're going to hear the same complaints. The house where you're alongside me is what four bedrooms
[3:19:37] or five, four bedrooms. So what do you call that? A tier three? Is that what it is? A tier two,
[3:19:44] tier three, tier 23? It doesn't matter what you call it. The people that rent these homes,
[3:19:53] Their object to coming up is to come up with as many people as they can.
[3:20:00] Local per person, they're not paying that much. The one rate alongside me, and in very worst,
[3:20:06] I've seen one time they had 13 kids and 14 adults. They bragged about it. Another time,
[3:20:14] a universal studio's bus pulled up, 28 adults that I could count. There could have been more.
[3:20:22] They came out with their own mattresses, their own air mattresses. Now, if you've got four
[3:20:28] bedrooms up there. It doesn't matter how many bedrooms you have. It's how many people
[3:20:33] they can put per square foot. This isn't right. I know you have regulators to regulate
[3:20:41] this. It's ineffective. I don't care what you call it. Tier one, tier two, tier 23.
[3:20:48] This is the reality.
[3:20:54] Any other comments from the floor?
[3:20:56] again
[3:21:14] my name is Jim McIntyre and for the record I'm regarding they're talking
[3:21:19] about 342 Marianne and their request for a tier 3. I totally disagree that
[3:21:30] they should be approved for this permit and everything has been said is pretty
[3:21:39] much reflective of what's going on with me and Mr. Lesser.
[3:21:45] He has called me on at least
[3:21:47] I know of three different occasions telling me that I should get air conditioning on one
[3:21:53] of those so I wouldn't have to hear the noise. On another occasion he called on behalf of
[3:22:00] some of his vacation renters that they texted him and that I treated them very verbally
[3:22:07] really bad when I walked by, walked in my dog and he read the text and I totally did
[3:22:19] not do any of that sort of things to him because I am a neighbor and I just asked the
[3:22:25] people if they could mind just being quiet because I just totally fed up with all the
[3:22:30] the noise that's been going on weekend and week out daily everything and the traffic
[3:22:37] that's created by this, people, again I say don't respect the speed limit.
[3:22:43] There's really no monitoring or control to a small street like that.
[3:22:50] And by the way that street when it was incepted was supposed to be a 50 foot wide street.
[3:22:55] It was divided in half and just considered a 25 foot street.
[3:22:59] So whatever dimensions are shown on whatever plot plans vary.
[3:23:05] As far as Mr. Lesher of this house was originally a for bedroom house.
[3:23:13] And when the original owners moved, a gentleman from New York came in.
[3:23:19] He was a stage hand builder and he came in and did the midnight hour additions to that property.
[3:23:27] I do not know, and I don't think there are any posted records of permits pulled for those extra bedrooms.
[3:23:35] I'm sure it can be checked.
[3:23:37] I would definitely like to see that be done, because the gentleman at Bill the place took me out for a tour of what he did, and it creates a problem for it being four bedroom or eight bedroom.
[3:23:52] The other thing is, you know, the sound carries, because the decks are facing my property
[3:23:58] and there are two tiers of them, plus an eight-man hot tub, that is acoustically placed,
[3:24:05] that it reflects the noise very, very well toward our bedrooms and what have you.
[3:24:10] So, like other people have said, the noise keeps you up at night, and as the night goes
[3:24:15] on, the alcohol goes, and it gets louder.
[3:24:19] Thank you very much.
[3:24:20] Thank you, sir.
[3:24:29] Nylis Serrino and I would just like to say that what Jim is saying is absolute truth.
[3:24:34] Mr. Lester's house has been a problem house in our neighborhood for many years.
[3:24:39] We drive by before he put the cameras in the noise.
[3:24:44] We go by knock on the door as people to please be quiet.
[3:24:48] I live a block away and I hear them in his terrible.
[3:24:52] There's also so much traffic in our neighborhood now.
[3:24:55] They put the tile rim trail in. We still have two lanes.
[3:25:00] We have the big hill that people are sliding down and stuck on all the time. It is also a problem with fires. We've evacuated that neighborhood three times. If you keep allowing these homes to have more people, how are you going to get us out in a fire? We had a powerful hit by a UPS truck. Our road was closed for hours. If one tree comes down, we're stuck. So the more people in our neighborhood, the more chance of us getting
[3:25:29] in a fire and dine. We've been through three evacuations up there. It's serious. We don't need
[3:25:36] any more people, please.
[3:25:40] Thank you. Is there any more comments? Thank you.
[3:26:01] I'm going to be real quick. I'm Judy McIntyre, the other part of Jim, at 332 Marianne. I just have
[3:26:10] quick comments. Number one, and as someone else said this, we have been up there. We live up
[3:26:16] their full time and where they're all the time, I have never once seen a motor home in
[3:26:23] that driveway ever.
[3:26:26] Also we have spoken with Mr. Lesser several times and at that time, and this is clearly
[3:26:35] recent, he's in San Diego, he told us when we need to get in touch with him to call him
[3:26:42] San Diego and he has an assistant that can help us also in San Diego.
[3:26:51] Another thing he mentioned is that they screen the people that they
[3:26:57] rent to so that there's never anybody under 25 and I beg to differ with
[3:27:03] that one because I've seen fraternities up there partying and along with
[3:27:11] what Jim said, the noise is horrendous. And another thing that was mentioned is that
[3:27:20] nothing that we have never reported it to the sheriff. And I begged to differ with
[3:27:26] that because there were many nights that Jim called at two o'clock in the morning because
[3:27:33] there was party. I don't know where the records go that don't have that information, but
[3:27:40] But he has called, I think one of the things they always say when we call is do you want
[3:27:46] to place a formal complaint and we haven't.
[3:27:51] He just wants the noise to stop.
[3:27:54] And so he's called many, many times over the years.
[3:27:58] So like I said, I don't know where the calls go but there have been complaints and the sheriffs
[3:28:04] have come up there.
[3:28:07] That's it. Thank you for the information.
[3:28:11] Ellie?
[3:28:20] Ellie Waller, this is probably one of the most confusing ones that I've seen on a list
[3:28:25] as toward what Board Member Romaine was talking about.
[3:28:33] It's confusing how this is being rented and is there a clarification that you can be a
[3:28:41] one once in a while, you can be a tier three once in a while, that'll be something for improvement in the code just so there's an understanding of how that complexity works.
[3:28:52] I believe this still needs a property manager.
[3:28:55] I'm concerned that this isn't being properly identified as being managed on site or nearby by Mr.
[3:29:08] less or no disrespect is just very confusing. The parking pad, again, as identified by staff
[3:29:17] member, Mr. DeLair here, is 40 feet. Again, in past comments I've made, the street looks
[3:29:24] very narrow. I don't know where the property line is versus the county easement line, and
[3:29:30] And if that road truly is 25 feet, again, it's a public health and safety issue as well
[3:29:38] as how the cars get in and out.
[3:29:39] So identification of those parking spots, I think need a little more scrutiny.
[3:29:46] And then how do you verify where that motorhome is if he's here?
[3:29:54] And that's fine.
[3:29:55] I mean, staff is busy to have to report in that kind of
[3:30:00] Manageability, I think, is unacceptable. Either you're here or you're not, or you got a property manager, which I think is what's necessary here. I would have two questions for Mr. Lesser, not to answer. It's back to the board, but these would be my questions. Has have you ever rented at any time, more than one group, because it sounds like, again, the complexity of your explanation of this. And when was the last time you were at your property?
[3:30:29] Thank you.
[3:30:31] Thank you, Ms. Waller.
[3:30:34] I think everyone in the room is spoken.
[3:30:37] Is there anyone on Zoom?
[3:30:39] Thank you Madam Chair and Damien for the record. Yes.
[3:30:45] Lisa, if you can hear me, please state your name and full and your three minutes will begin.
[3:30:52] I unmuted. Can you hear me?
[3:30:54] Yes, we can.
[3:30:55] Okay. My name is Lisa Hori.
[3:30:57] I am on Mary and Drive.
[3:31:00] My husband and I live on Mary and Drive.
[3:31:01] a few houses up from 342 Marianne and I just want to say that our neighborhood is quiet
[3:31:10] of course was quiet and there's no place for these properties to be renting to so many
[3:31:18] people, the tier 3 in particular, so many people as is being requested.
[3:31:27] I can hear from our deck in the summertime we can hear people sitting on 3, 4, 2's deck.
[3:31:34] They can just be talking, but it's a nuisance.
[3:31:38] And the more people you get the louder it is.
[3:31:40] You are asking what is across the street from 3, 4, 2 Marianne?
[3:31:46] It's a big rock slope. It's huge. It probably is forestry land.
[3:31:51] but the noise ricochets bounces off of that rock slope over to us.
[3:32:03] This property has had issues.
[3:32:05] I want to say that it's exposing our neighborhood to a transient population.
[3:32:12] Of course, you have different people coming at all times to rent, but that property has
[3:32:20] had a couple of burglaries and just back in December, there were two Douglas County deputy
[3:32:26] vehicles blocking our road and I don't know what the situation was but they actually went
[3:32:32] in and apprehended someone from that property. There were other residents on our street
[3:32:40] that were stuck behind the vehicles and they couldn't get home for quite a while because
[3:32:45] of this situation. Of course, there's an increase in traffic. Again, we had a lot of snow back in
[3:32:53] December, and there were the vacationers that were in 342 were out playing on the road when my
[3:33:01] husband and I drove by. They didn't even think to step back. We had to drive by very slowly, but
[3:33:08] they were dangerous situations, they could have gotten hit.
[3:33:14] I do have a question about, it says to, if the Tier III application is approved,
[3:33:22] the applicant must agree to nine items, and this is on page 157.
[3:33:29] Number nine says that there is no, our neighborhood has no place
[3:33:38] for these commercial, large occupancy vacation rentals.
[3:33:44] As you can see, we are more and more appearing in our neighborhood, and we have a right.
[3:33:51] I don't know why Mr. Lester thinks that Mr. McIntyre and we do have a quiet neighborhood.
[3:33:58] Thank you.
[3:34:00] Thank you.
[3:34:02] Mr. Amy, is that?
[3:34:03] But I do have Mr. Lesser, who has raised his hand to speak.
[3:34:13] I would like to bring it back to the ward first, because I think we've heard a lot.
[3:34:19] And I have a couple of helmets I want to make ahead of everybody, sorry.
[3:34:26] But I'm uncomfortable with homes of this occupancy anyway, in neighborhoods unless they're
[3:34:35] very specifically designed for that, or there's no comments from the residents nearby.
[3:34:44] It does make me uncomfortable knowing that there's going to be cramped 16 people into a house when a normal home might have two people and a few children or that kind of thing.
[3:34:56] but I'm more uncomfortable with the...
[3:35:00] In fact, the responsible party that's supposed to be available 24-7 isn't always in Douglas County to take the calls and respond to any complaints. So, you know, those are my biggest concerns about it. And now I'll pass it on down the row. Anybody,
[3:35:22] Patty?
[3:35:24] One comment that I want to make is in the requirements for it.
[3:35:29] tier three, there should be a license property manager, and it seems like he is not licensed
[3:35:40] and if he's out of town and travels, then there is no one that is within a 30-minute
[3:35:49] time that can handle things.
[3:35:52] And I think there is a little, with the street and I was up there in the snow and
[3:35:58] traveling, the streets are very narrow up there and they're tight, thank you.
[3:36:05] Thank you, Patty.
[3:36:07] Keith?
[3:36:08] I guess really just to agree with you.
[3:36:11] You know, again, I'm starting, I think we need to start putting some guidance around how close is too close and
[3:36:18] There are always our exceptions.
[3:36:20] The first house we talked about tonight was less than a hundred.
[3:36:24] But there were rebuttable things about that house which got me comfortable with it.
[3:36:29] The closest neighbor riding a letter of support, the way the house was there.
[3:36:32] This one is 80 feet from the closest neighbor.
[3:36:35] And a hundred is just a guideline to kind of throw things out.
[3:36:39] The rock, based across the street, makes that even further.
[3:36:44] And I don't know if we've heard from every single neighbor, but we've heard from another.
[3:36:48] And it's hard to say that there's a rebuttable that the presumption can be rebutted
[3:36:52] that this House is too close to others to have 16 people.
[3:36:56] And so I guess I didn't want to speak because I just share what I share that I think
[3:37:00] this concerns.
[3:37:02] And you, Keith Michael?
[3:37:05] Yes, thank you.
[3:37:06] I feel like it's not necessarily the distance on this House because the distance,
[3:37:12] you know, more or less could go, although I know it sound bounces everywhere.
[3:37:16] But it just seems like the overwhelming neighborhood reaction has been, you know, that this has not been a pleasurable experience.
[3:37:29] And it's not melding in with the neighborhood.
[3:37:33] And, you know, that's a tough scenario.
[3:37:36] I think I say this all the time.
[3:37:38] We're trying to balance the people that own the Tier 2s and Tier 3s versus the neighborhood.
[3:37:44] and so it just seems like there's a preponderance of opposition, you know, of what's happening in the neighborhood.
[3:37:55] So at this time does the board wish to make a motion?
[3:38:16] So even though it's not a Tier 3, there still needs to be a local contact person, correct?
[3:38:22] I'm sorry, I'm asking Mr. Tritler.
[3:38:25] Oh yeah, that's correct. Tom Dillair for the record.
[3:38:27] Okay, and so there is nothing on any formal piece of paper that proves that he is a resident of Douglas County or his address.
[3:38:38] Correct?
[3:38:41] I staff was digging into this one when I was gone on Friday, sorry, I don't know where that ended up landing.
[3:38:52] But it was my understanding that he does have I think there is some paperwork that has that he is in Douglas County
[3:38:58] But when you look at the assessor's site and the deed it is it does go back to San Diego
[3:39:04] You know is where the address is shown
[3:39:06] It's usually highly unusual that you have two addresses to choose from California and Nevada and that you actually choose California for that address
[3:39:15] But I guess what I'm I guess what I'm wondering depending on how this goes
[3:39:18] but with even with the Tier 2, I think we need a local contact person, someone who has a
[3:39:23] verifying, depending on however it comes out or whatever, but someone who can verify that
[3:39:28] they're close and can respond, because that is kind of a very clear requirement that we have.
[3:39:35] Okay.
[3:39:36] I found my agenda.
[3:39:37] Madam Chair, I move that we reject the application for an 8-bedroom home 16-person
[3:39:42] occupancy located at 342 Mary N. Drives, Africa, Nevada owned by Todd Lisser 342 LLC.
[3:39:51] Do we have a second?
[3:39:52] Second.
[3:39:55] Okay.
[3:39:55] I have a motion and a second to deny the special use permit.
[3:40:00] Application to Mr. Leser at 342 Marianne Drive. Is there any further discussion? Okay, all those in favor to deny this application? Indicator saying aye. Aye. Any opposed? 5-0, thank you.
[3:40:25] Item 5, I had hoped we'd get too earlier than this. Because I'm wear rose-colored glasses.
[3:40:35] For possible action, discussion on possible changes to chapter 20.622 of the Douglas County Code, relative to vacation home rentals in the Lake Tahoe Township.
[3:40:48] Let me start by saying, we are not going to get through the whole code tonight, we're not going to get through very much of it at all.
[3:40:56] All what I've asked the board members to do is give us a list of the things that are most important to them.
[3:41:05] And I will also hear public comment as to what's most important to the public that wants to speak.
[3:41:14] So if the board is okay with this, I'll ask for public comment first.
[3:41:21] I don't believe we will really be voting on anything, but we would like to hear what
[3:41:27] everyone has to say, so if...
[3:41:31] It sounded like Miss Walker had been attending various meetings, and I think you have
[3:41:37] the discretion to expand time at your discretion, and I would like you to consider maybe expanding
[3:41:45] her to five minutes if she so chooses just because she's been watching all of these things
[3:41:51] and I would be very interested to hear if there's something we're not thinking about
[3:41:55] or something else.
[3:41:56] So I would like to you to consider, again, it's your discretion maybe expanding her time.
[3:42:02] Okay, Lauren, I would love to hear what she hears from other places, so I agree with that
[3:42:06] but I'm not sure she's prepared today to do it.
[3:42:09] But my other question is can we go through our three things because then we can get comments
[3:42:13] from the audience on the things that we're discussing, which might help us to hone in those three things, just a suggestion.
[3:42:21] That was my original plan, but I was being...
[3:42:29] No, no, no. I wasn't told. I was just there. I think some people in the audience that maybe...
[3:42:34] I want to make comments now.
[3:42:35] I want to make comments first. And what I'm thinking we should do is we're not going to get into the weeds with any of this today.
[3:42:43] We're going to make a list and everybody's going to have time to kind of percolate with it and come up with
[3:42:48] things that are better or things that are, you know, so anyway, so Mr. Ainsworth, I'm going to
[3:43:00] Yes, Madam Chair, I'm sorry, give your public comment.
[3:43:07] Madam Chair, just for clarification and I apologize, I just need to advise you of some
[3:43:13] open meeting law guidance.
[3:43:16] If you're going to extend additional time to any member of the public, you should extend
[3:43:20] additional time to all members of the public.
[3:43:22] If you would like to arrange for a special presentation by a member of the public, I'd be happy
[3:43:26] to place an item on the agenda for future discussion where Ms. Waller can present.
[3:43:30] We would extend the same opportunity to any member of the public in coordination with you.
[3:43:38] Okay, that said that's to keep everything the three minutes today.
[3:43:42] And then at, because you can get your information together, Mrs. Waller, and put it in, we can put it on the agenda for another time.
[3:43:51] So go forward, Mr. Ainsworth.
[3:43:59] Thank you very much, and I think that's a fair and legal comment and decision that you made there.
[3:44:09] I didn't want to talk for five, but I think that was the right decision.
[3:44:13] I'm looking at my public comment from the last meetings in April of last year.
[3:44:21] And unfortunately only one of the items I addressed has been solved in the current ordinance,
[3:44:27] which is actually parking for the most part I think the on-site designated
[3:44:31] parking spaces is the right and fair solution. So I'll address the other three
[3:44:37] again and hope you do too. But first I'd also like to say that the last two
[3:44:42] items that you just discussed are exactly the reason why the task force was
[3:44:48] formed in the first place. Noise, parking, and trash. And evidently, even though the rules
[3:44:58] are in place, either
[3:45:00] People aren't complaining properly, or code enforcement is not doing its job yet, or something else I can't explain or describe, because the reasons cited for not giving this permit are basically the reasons that the code was extended, defined, and we hoped really put some good rules in place that could be enforced. So hopefully code enforcement will come into play.
[3:45:29] Okay, I want you to take my comments here in the right context because it may seem like
[3:45:35] I'm talking against some of the things that you have been discussing.
[3:45:39] Just put them in the right context, occupancy number one.
[3:45:43] To me, it makes no sense to limit occupancy to just bedrooms times two, especially for
[3:45:49] tier two.
[3:45:50] Many condos and homes have bunk beds in a bedroom and or a sleeper sofa in the living room.
[3:45:55] It's a standard rental practice everywhere to allow occupancy levels based on that kind
[3:46:01] of a situation.
[3:46:03] And occupancy levels don't solve the noise, trash, and parking issues.
[3:46:08] Reasonable rules, compliance to the rules, and good code enforcement solve those issues,
[3:46:13] as I just said.
[3:46:15] I would consider letting the inspection team, which is the way it used to work, determine appropriate
[3:46:20] occupancy and maybe put a max of bedrooms times two plus four or whatever the board decides to do.
[3:46:30] Got to rush here. The tier three requirement that the home must be located sufficiently far away
[3:46:36] from all residential buildings so is not to cause a nuisance. Keith, this isn't pointed at you.
[3:46:44] It's just that that requirement is a completely and totally
[3:46:48] the undefinable aspect, to say it would be subjective, would be a gross understatement.
[3:46:54] You can't solve issues with a distance minimum.
[3:46:57] You solve issues if they occur with citations, fines, and if necessary, pulling the permit.
[3:47:05] I was going to talk about ownership, but I won't, because my time's up.
[3:47:10] Thank you very much.
[3:47:11] Thank you, Mr. Engels, we'll be doing this monthly, so maybe I'll just mark your calendar.
[3:47:16] Yeah.
[3:47:19] Ellie.
[3:47:26] Ellie Waller, I will be fairly brief.
[3:47:30] I'll disagree about occupancy.
[3:47:33] That is part of the whole issue.
[3:47:36] When you exacerbate the number of people in a home, everything else goes up.
[3:47:41] I think what you've done is excellent.
[3:47:43] I would not change occupancy.
[3:47:47] Based on today, again, we're back to the whole bedroom thing.
[3:47:52] We're going to spend a lot of time trying to figure this out so we don't have to recodify it one more time.
[3:47:58] I think it's going to need maybe the task force to come back, adding more public in a workshop forum to figure out what makes sense.
[3:48:08] So the fire department has a baseline.
[3:48:12] We have a baseline. We don't have any confusion with duplicity of how and conflict of definition.
[3:48:21] Again,
[3:48:24] a bedroom is a bedroom and I think you sleep in it and that's all you do in it.
[3:48:29] I don't care if you put five beds in a 20 by 20 room, whatever you decide, but again, occupancy will be defined, should stay defined.
[3:48:41] Today was very confusing to me about you can be a tier one and you can be a tier two or a tier three at the same time.
[3:48:47] I think there needs some clarity in that.
[3:48:53] Let's see, vacant versus buildable.
[3:48:57] I think that was a really good thing on the lots.
[3:49:00] Oh, what triggers a total revocation?
[3:49:03] I mean, we haven't been processing any of that,
[3:49:08] or haven't needed to.
[3:49:09] I think one should have been revoked today.
[3:49:12] That's just my personal opinion.
[3:49:14] So how and where does that come to the board?
[3:49:16] or how does somebody bring up a revocation?
[3:49:20] I know there's something in the process,
[3:49:22] but it's a little confusing.
[3:49:26] I think we are a work in progress.
[3:49:29] Code enforcement is moving right along.
[3:49:31] They're getting there.
[3:49:32] I think we're seeing some valuable information come back
[3:49:36] with the added staff.
[3:49:38] Once we're in full staffing position, again,
[3:49:42] And we will be much better off.
[3:49:46] And I'm happy to provide a summary, I don't need to get up to speak,
[3:49:51] I can provide a summary for the board of all the other VHRs.
[3:49:58] and how...
[3:50:00] How the other local jurisdictions are doing this? So you just have some insight. One of the interesting ones is if somebody purchases a house, they have to wait a year before they can make it a VHR. I thought that was a really good one because we're having conflicts now with people purchasing and saying, well, I can't afford it. If I can't rent it, well, that's really not the county's problem. And so I think that's a really good one that I took from Trucke. Thank you.
[3:50:30] Thank you.
[3:50:32] Anybody else in the audience like to give some public comment before I go to Zoom?
[3:50:39] Ms. Damien?
[3:50:41] Thank you Madam Chair and Damien for the record.
[3:50:45] Mr. Walder, if you could hear me, if you could state your name in full in your three minutes
[3:50:49] we'll begin.
[3:50:51] Thank you very much.
[3:50:53] My name is Kirk Walder.
[3:50:54] I live in Zephyr Cove.
[3:50:55] I am speaking for myself today not as a member of the planning commission.
[3:51:00] I do want to thank the chair and the advisory board members for their service.
[3:51:04] They are doing a very good job and I appreciate all the time and effort that they have put
[3:51:09] in.
[3:51:10] I'd like to state that I'm not a vacation home rental owner and I live in an area with
[3:51:16] a relatively large number of vacation home rentals.
[3:51:19] Contrary to what others have said, I rarely see any significant problems or violation of
[3:51:24] VHR rules in my neighborhood.
[3:51:26] I did submit written comments with specific issues
[3:51:30] that I believe you should address.
[3:51:33] Let me amplify on a couple of items.
[3:51:35] I appreciate the board's attention to the details
[3:51:38] of the applications and the specifics of the current ordinance.
[3:51:42] But I urge you to keep foremost in your mind
[3:51:45] that the goal of a good ordinance is to set clear and simple
[3:51:51] rules that allow everyone to meet the goal of a good VHR program that is safe and
[3:51:59] preserves the welfare of the Tauho community. So as you consider items like
[3:52:04] density, occupancy, ownership, and other parts of the ordinance, my
[3:52:10] suggestion is to make a common sense rule. Don't complicate it. Don't make it so
[3:52:19] So difficult for compliance that it requires many, many hours of code enforcement time and
[3:52:28] concentrate on enforcement of those who issue problems and create violations.
[3:52:38] So thank you for all your good work, and I appreciate your service to the county.
[3:52:43] Thank you, Mr. Alder.
[3:52:45] Any other public comment?
[3:52:49] Thank you Madam Chair. I do have Mr. Lesser raised his hand for public comment.
[3:52:54] Mr. Lesser, if you would like to make public comment on item five, please state your name
[3:52:59] and your three minutes will begin.
[3:53:01] Thank you. I get to tell you that I'm frankly shocked of the board's lack of due process
[3:53:06] and lack of knowledge of the law. You know, in America you have a right to address your
[3:53:11] accusers. And you even said I want to let the board talk before I let him address of
[3:53:18] what everyone else said.
[3:53:19] And you never gave me that opportunity.
[3:53:21] I mean, the fact is you had someone else,
[3:53:23] you had people testify that they have complained.
[3:53:27] So what that means is that whoever you had hired
[3:53:30] to do the sheriff is either incompetent or a liar.
[3:53:34] Well, clearly you know that's not the case.
[3:53:36] So someone was lying in that room.
[3:53:38] If they said they've been calling the sheriff all the time
[3:53:40] and the sheriff shows no record of it,
[3:53:43] who do you want to believe?
[3:53:44] But instead, you voted like there was complaints.
[3:53:46] And are you going to do that for this next person?
[3:53:49] I mean, are you going to, was this a popularity contest?
[3:53:52] Mr. Lesser, we're on item number five.
[3:53:56] I understand, but this is, I'm telling you,
[3:53:58] are you going to treat number five the same way you treated me
[3:54:00] and using that as an example?
[3:54:02] And I think you need to give that opportunity
[3:54:04] the person to address their accusers
[3:54:07] as allowed into the Constitution.
[3:54:10] You know, I think your process,
[3:54:11] you're not following your own sort of rules.
[3:54:13] If you're taking complaints from people a quarter of a mile away, you should do a big circle.
[3:54:18] And you should have, say, tell the applicant beforehand to actually get a list of people
[3:54:23] that support you a quarter mile away.
[3:54:25] I would have done that.
[3:54:26] I would have signed a petition, but I didn't do that.
[3:54:29] I was not expecting, you know, when I last checked, there was no complaints.
[3:54:33] Otherwise, I would have dressed it.
[3:54:35] If someone says they knocked on the door, I would have asked the date and time, and I would
[3:54:39] to show in a ticked camera of that date and time to show that that was a complete fabrication.
[3:54:44] You know, so these are the things that you hear these people complaining.
[3:54:48] I mean, one of the persons complained, look at the roads.
[3:54:51] I think for this next person, look at the roads.
[3:54:53] Yes?
[3:54:54] We need to move on.
[3:54:56] We've heard your testimony about your property.
[3:55:00] But you're not going to let me address the process, like I'm going to address the road. When you take a complaint from someone that says the road was blocked and they couldn't get around, I expect this board to go look at the road and see, oh, gee, it's a loop. So that's not really true. They could have driven around if it was truly blocked. You know, I mean, that's what I'm saying is I think you guys are very anti thing. And the fact is 18 years, no complaints. And you take five people. I hope you do a fair process.
[3:55:27] We need to move on.
[3:55:28] Thank you,
[3:55:31] anybody else?
[3:55:34] There are no other online public comments.
[3:55:38] I'll go on.
[3:55:38] Madam Chair.
[3:55:40] Mr. Taylor.
[3:55:41] Yeah, I did want to correct for the record just something to put out in public.
[3:55:47] And just I wanted to make it very clear.
[3:55:49] Do you have considerable discretion in terms of determining how long people speak and who speaks?
[3:55:55] Also, the OML, this is from the AG's manual on page 70, 2019 manual, it says the OML allows considerable discretion to the public body as the length of time allowed to speakers.
[3:56:07] There is no statutory or constitutional requirement that each speaker's time be correlated mathematically.
[3:56:14] However, any public comment limitation including when public comments will be allowed and whether public comment will be allowed in current items must be articulated on the body's agenda.
[3:56:22] I will note for the record that you do have considerable discretion to allow more time for people to speak, but whenever you have a limitation on people's time, that needs to be on the agenda.
[3:56:33] So that is something I wanted to clarify for the record.
[3:56:37] Thank you, Mr. Taylor.
[3:56:39] I'm not sure I have the mechanism to turn off somebody from right this seat.
[3:56:48] No, but you can direct the clerk or misdemean to cut somebody off.
[3:56:54] And the event that somebody is either talking about an item that is not being discussed.
[3:57:01] For example, Mr. Lesser was discussing something related clearly to item number four when we were discussing item number five.
[3:57:09] And you have the ability to cut them off if it's not germane to the subject item being discussed before the board.
[3:57:15] Board.
[3:57:18] Thank you.
[3:57:19] Okay.
[3:57:20] Board.
[3:57:21] Throw out your ideas.
[3:57:23] Fast.
[3:57:27] Thank you Madam Chair.
[3:57:29] If I may start it off, first of all I want to thank you for all the input you've received
[3:57:35] from me and probably all the others.
[3:57:38] I give input on ordinances and I give input on procedures and so I've tried to stick to just
[3:57:46] ordinances this time. And one of the things that I would like to look at is not just the density of
[3:57:55] regions but the density of within those regions. In other words, having a Tier 2 and
[3:58:06] 2 Tier 3s surrounding you would be, in my opinion, a very high density to have. And we received a
[3:58:14] letter from an individual fairly close to my neighborhood that he's surrounded now.
[3:58:22] And so that's what I would like to look at is dive into more restrictions or
[3:58:28] just ideas that can keep the density not just concentrated in one area.
[3:58:37] The second one I'd like to look at as an ordinance, and
[3:58:41] And I don't know the background on this is this 50 person guest limit for tier 3, I think
[3:58:47] is very confusing to everybody in the audience and people in general.
[3:58:53] And I think there should be a per item that could be, in other words, the first one we
[3:59:01] heard might be a 50 person total, but others may not be.
[3:59:06] So I'd like to look into that.
[3:59:08] And I'd like to look into that not just for tier three, but also place that on a tier two.
[3:59:13] Noise and monitors and cameras is my third one.
[3:59:17] I think they should be standardized.
[3:59:20] I think we just have a hodgepodge of monitors and out there that.
[3:59:27] And I think they all should be web-based.
[3:59:32] And they all should have access to our code enforcement.
[3:59:36] it. And possibly even a camera on the driveway. So that's my top three that I have right
[3:59:48] now. Thank you, Michael. We'll get to everybody's, but it won't be tonight. I mean, we'll
[3:59:54] get to everybody's top three, but not. We'll make a list. So Keith, if you would give us yours.
[3:59:58] Yes, ma'am.
[4:00:00] Noise monitors, I think we need to set standards on that they're your web base, that they have a log that they keep, and how long that log should be, and the log should not be dependent on an event, it ought to be just the totality of it. So I always noise monitors.
[4:00:19] I wish this not to be part of the top three, but I believe we need to look at insurance. I believe that your ability to bring a case against a
[4:00:29] an insurance company is different if they're not in Nevada, but I don't know that.
[4:00:34] So after the next three, I would like to look at insurance and maybe change the regulations about,
[4:00:40] do they have to have an Nevada insurance or what all that mean?
[4:00:43] Trash is my third.
[4:00:45] It seemed to me that the committee was more interested in making sure trash was disposed of properly,
[4:00:51] not necessarily just on the site.
[4:00:53] And I think we've got the site, we've got some stuff in the ordinance,
[4:00:56] But it doesn't do any good to have an account with Salt Lake Tahoe Refuge.
[4:01:04] If your cleaners want to throw it in your neighbors, yeah, a container.
[4:01:11] So I think we need to think through that and see how we can make sure that that's not happening.
[4:01:18] Thank you, Keith, Patty.
[4:01:22] Well, I do have concerns about the density in the neighborhoods.
[4:01:26] Whether it be Tier 2 or Tier 3, and I kind of agree with Mike on that.
[4:01:35] Also, the 50 people, you know, added additional persons on Tier 2 and 3, the noise monitors.
[4:01:44] The one thing that I would like to maybe try to address is the trash issue.
[4:01:48] So, as we have it required that there's bear boxes, well, if they have a two tier is one small bear box going to be enough.
[4:01:59] What would like maybe South Tahoe Refuge recommend for if you're going to have 18 people there?
[4:02:06] You need bear box that would accommodate like four cans or something like that, but trying to get a better idea of what would require rather than just voluntary.
[4:02:18] Yeah, I got one beer box and it's one can and I have 12 people here for the weekend.
[4:02:25] Thank you.
[4:02:26] Thank you, Paddy.
[4:02:26] Yeah, the trash is kind of vague.
[4:02:28] Lauren.
[4:02:31] Okay, so some gray areas in what we had discussed that didn't kind of come through completely.
[4:02:38] And one of those things that we need to address in my opinion is we talk about a bedroom being a primary room.
[4:02:45] I think this board is getting a little bit more clarity as to the things that can happen,
[4:02:50] and I think we're getting there. However, it doesn't exempt studios, and I think we really need
[4:02:55] to get the wording in there for studios because studios are allowed. And that is a totally different
[4:03:00] and separate entity than what we were talking about as far as trying to cram everyone into every
[4:03:07] little look and cranny of a place. So I think we need to address the wording of a studio
[4:03:13] to ensure that that is acceptable and not part of that.
[4:03:19] This is, I don't believe this is process because it is in the ordinance, but I might
[4:03:25] be on, I might be on the edge here, so knock me over if I am.
[4:03:30] I really think at some point we need to talk about how a tier 3 application and applicant
[4:03:35] is not a tier 3 until they are approved by this board.
[4:03:40] I think it really sets people up for kind of like Ms. Gunter said the other day, well, wait a minute.
[4:03:46] And I have reservations for these numbers, and I don't think you should be able to advertise until that.
[4:03:52] And it is in the ordinance, maybe we just need to reword it differently in the ordinance.
[4:03:57] And Mr. Delair, it may be, and I don't know, you know, school me on this, is it because we've had,
[4:04:04] because of this new ordinance that we're kind of in a different section.
[4:04:08] And once we get through that section, then yes, we will have it as you will operate as a tier two until three.
[4:04:14] So maybe it's already fixed, and I might see, I've got my thing fixed already.
[4:04:21] Well, can I get clarification from Mr. Delaire?
[4:04:26] Thank you, Tom Delaire, for the record.
[4:04:29] Yes, Mr. Murrow, I mean, this is the 180 days I think was put in there to for that buffer zone.
[4:04:37] because they went, these homes went from like 20 people to 16 and they gave them six months
[4:04:45] in order to get into compliance with whatever, you know, come to you guys, getting to compliance
[4:04:50] if you guys deny it, then it goes down to 10 people. And there's still going to be some areas where,
[4:04:57] or some units that...
[4:05:00] That have the potential of, you know, multiple stays out past that time frame, you know, if they, if they started today, they might have an eight month. I'm not one of those people that plan that far ahead, but they are, they are out there. So I think, so I, yeah, anyway, I'll just leave it at that for the 180 days. And it's in the code. And that'll finally stop once, once we now have a new person who's coming in asking for a tier three that doesn't already have a permit.
[4:05:29] can we limit them to a tier two until they're approved?
[4:05:33] Yes, after that first cycle of one year
[4:05:36] of processing these per applications,
[4:05:38] now everybody's cut down to two per bedroom
[4:05:40] and they don't have the additional floor.
[4:05:42] So that's helpful, but we'll see what happens
[4:05:45] with the settlement.
[4:05:46] Okay, thank you.
[4:05:49] The one that was not part of my list,
[4:05:52] but is part of my list after our meeting today
[4:05:54] is we really need, in my opinion,
[4:05:56] to have a discussion about multiple living areas
[4:05:59] within a certain area. So in our, in the case of where we had, we had a guy who he's got an
[4:06:05] area in which he lives. Now Douglas County doesn't see that as a livable place. But if he decides to let a
[4:06:11] friend stay there, and he calls up because he's having a heart attack, and he says, I'm having a
[4:06:16] heart attack, I'm at 342 Marianne, which is downstairs and in some crazy little place somewhere,
[4:06:22] and they get to 342 Marianne, and they say, nobody's having a heart attack here, because there's no actual 911
[4:06:27] want to address, it's just not, we're talking about cramming more people in a space again.
[4:06:34] So I'd like to discuss that, and because I added that one, I also agree with the 50 people
[4:06:40] thing that we need to address that because I don't, I don't know where that came from,
[4:06:44] and I just don't, I think a blanket 50 people is just kind of muddy.
[4:06:50] Thank you, Lauren, and I also agree with that.
[4:06:52] I don't know where the 50 thing came, and I don't understand.
[4:06:55] And there's very few neighborhoods that could handle that kind of cars and occupants.
[4:07:03] Mine, one is that I'd like to follow through on one of the things Mr. Walder brought up is that maybe we do need a survey of some sort.
[4:07:15] But neighborhood by neighborhood, because some neighborhood seemed to kind of be okay with their vacation rental program in their neighborhood.
[4:07:24] and some neighborhoods seem to be vehemently against them.
[4:07:28] So I would like to see us do some more research on that.
[4:07:33] I also kind of have issues with there being more than one permit on a parcel.
[4:07:41] That just causes a lot of problems in neighborhoods when you have two permitted properties on one
[4:07:50] APN.
[4:07:50] And the other thing I'd like to throw out there is something that Mr. Rice once said was that in Round Hill they charge commercial rates for water and sewer on VHRs.
[4:08:01] Most of us don't have that option because our sewer is through like an elevated Glenbrook, it's through the Tahoe Douglas District and our water is through Douglas County.
[4:08:13] And I just think it might be a small bandaid to give to people, the homeowners that are paying the rates and seeing 16 and 20 people weekly in another home.
[4:08:25] And they're paying the same rates as you are.
[4:08:28] And I would like to explore that possibility.
[4:08:32] Those are my top three.
[4:08:36] From here I'd like to, we have everything together, we're going to go over it again.
[4:08:42] We'll bring up new ideas.
[4:08:44] I'd really like to look at what some of the other counties are doing.
[4:08:47] I've been keeping a list of things I've seen in the various counties so that things
[4:08:53] that kind of jump out of me is a good idea.
[4:08:55] So that's something maybe we should all be kind of exploring independently of what's happening
[4:09:00] around the basin and that is all I have for today unless someone wants to vote on something.
[4:09:08] I'm not inclined to want to take a vote.
[4:09:11] No.
[4:09:13] Oh.
[4:09:15] No?
[4:09:15] He's quiet.
[4:09:16] Okay.
[4:09:17] Well, I need public, ending public, or closing public comment.
[4:09:20] Do not let.
[4:09:22] Closing public comment.
[4:09:24] Oh.
[4:09:24] Here she comes.
[4:09:28] I take every opportunity and try not to use up three minutes.
[4:09:32] I want to thank, Jen Davidson.
[4:09:34] I want to thank, Tom, I want to thank, Mr. Gaveon.
[4:09:37] I want to thank all of you folks.
[4:09:38] This is a work in progress, and I sat through nine years to get the regional plan update done, so I know what all this is.
[4:09:50] I've sat on, I'm never a task force member, I'm never a board member, I'm better as a member of public, and everybody can keep asking me to go run for something.
[4:10:00] I'm not going to happen. I find the time. I hope I make meaningful comments. I will still provide a summary. And again, just a big shout out to everybody didn't forget you over there, Mr. D.A. And of course, our clerks that are endlessly back and forth helping with us. I mean, it does take the village. And the village means everybody no matter what side you're on. And I believe we can make this work.
[4:10:29] I think it's going to be a multi-year process to hopefully get TRPA involved at a regional
[4:10:39] level.
[4:10:40] They need to weigh in, we spent many years having TRPA be the oversight, we handed it back
[4:10:47] to the jurisdictions.
[4:10:48] Now each jurisdiction is struggling with this VHR process.
[4:10:52] Thank you.
[4:10:54] Thank you, Ms. Waller.
[4:11:00] Dan Ainsworth, boy, I'd like to second what Ellie just said about thank yous to everybody.
[4:11:07] A lot of work, a lot of time and effort, a lot of issues to think about, so I'm glad you are on the VHR Advisory Board.
[4:11:18] Not me, Patty.
[4:11:22] Just thought I'd throw that one in there.
[4:11:24] So since I'm going to throw one more thing out here that is obviously it's kind of an emotional thing in some respects and somewhat controversial.
[4:11:34] But since you haven't really taken up some of the other things that I've mentioned so far, I'll throw this one out there and that's ownership.
[4:11:42] I'd like you to talk about ownership.
[4:11:43] I used to have a condo at mammoth with two other couples.
[4:11:48] It was a partnership.
[4:11:50] The three couples, skeed together, rented it out, skeed together, rented it out, worked
[4:11:56] out great, obviously more affordable for all three.
[4:11:59] I just don't understand why that can't be allowable in our system here.
[4:12:04] It makes absolutely no sense to me that that should be prohibited.
[4:12:09] Owners don't cause the issues.
[4:12:11] renders that cause the issues. And if there's an issue, it'll be addressed by the property
[4:12:16] manager. This is theoretical now, right? That's the way the ordinance is written, whoever
[4:12:21] that is. That's got to be in place. If not, the normal citations, etc., will be levied
[4:12:28] to many you pull the permit once again. That's the way it's set up. That's the whole concept
[4:12:35] except behind the ordinance and the provisions in it.
[4:12:39] So please put that on your list too.
[4:12:42] Thanks, have a nice evening.
[4:12:44] Thank you Mr. Rangeworth.
[4:12:46] Any other public comment?
[4:12:48] Any closing public comment from Zoom?
[4:12:51] There is no closing public comment on Zoom.
[4:12:54] Thank you, Mr. Damien.
[4:12:56] Let's adjourn this meeting.
[4:12:57] hehe.