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[Music]

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Uh, good morning. It is uh October 17th,

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2025 uh 9:00 a.m. This is a meeting of

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the Shoreborn Zoning Board of Appeals.

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Um,

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attendance by role. Mr. Fitch

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here.

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» Hi.

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» Uh, Mr. Hammond

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here.

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» Here.

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» Uh, Mr. Labby

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» Present.

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» President Mr. McBride present. We have a

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quorum. Um I move to reopen the

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deliberations for the uh Washington

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Street 40B project by Phoenix Partners.

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Um do I have a second for that?

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» I second that.

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» Great. I assume it's a unanimous vote.

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We all just say I.

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» I.

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» I.

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» I.

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» So reopening the hearing. Um I apologize

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to the board. I did not uh put together

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a draft agreement. It's been a bit of a

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it's been a bit of a two weeks for sure.

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Um I did um look deeply last night into

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um the uh board of health's uh comments,

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the um Stantech report uh all related to

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the septic. Uh I've also looked at I

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looked at um our Brush Hill opinion that

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we've uh recently um finalized a few

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months back which is a I would say a

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comparable size project relatively small

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um and this is all you know I think the

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last remaining issue just for context is

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we were we were discussing last time

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um the board of health recommendations

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to uh raise this condition the septic to

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be raised to 5T by adding sewer gravel

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um and uh versus the applicant's

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position it would cause more uh his

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position is it would cause more impact

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to the wetlands and cause more grading.

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Um I think I was questioning whether we

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you how strong of a legal basis we had

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um to

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to enforce that condition. Um so just

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going to so at least for Brush Hill um

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it looks like we we did approve and I I

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we did approve um just the four feet the

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title five uh standard um and um it was

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also from a design standpoint title five

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uh capacity it wasn't it wasn't meeting

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you know we'd waved the Sherborn um sort

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of size requirements on the tank and

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other things. So, um,

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you know, at this point, I I don't think

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that I, you know, personally, you know,

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I'm open to hear the other board members

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perspectives.

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Um, I understand our board of health

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regulations.

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Um, I don't know that I heard anything

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that was so compelling that I feel that

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it would survive appeal from hack in

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terms of the justification for the five

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feet. But that that that was me and um I

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don't want to speak for the other board

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members and so um I want to ask you all

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to sort of provide feedback sort of

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there and then you know any other

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comments you have and or perspectives on

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on this um uh subject question. So um

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anyone want to jump in?

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» Okay. Well,

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Zach, I will. Thanks for uh reviewing

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the Brush Hill decision. That's a

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sensible thing to do. Although we're not

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bound by what we did in that case in

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this case, but

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uh

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we we did approve the 4,000 ft

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four

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» Four feet

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and that 4,000 feet would Yeah, it' be

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fine

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» In that instance. And um

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I don't recall there being any

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discussion about whether or not it

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should be five feet. Um

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» No.

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» So

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I I think I mentioned last time I'm

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personally persuaded that the we're not

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dealing with a significant

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public health or safety issue in

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deciding between four and five feet.

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So I um

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» Or adding anything more than title five,

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right? I mean,

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» Right.

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» Um

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you know, I I'm not sure I I don't I'm

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not sure how much I should consider, you

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know, um the strength of that condition

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on appeal uh as part of our

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deliberations, but that does as a it

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does enter my mind. Um,

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and you know, I just um

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I don't know uh

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if uh if this is the

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instance that we would want to test

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that. Um if that makes sense, Jonathan.

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Uh

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» Yeah, it does.

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So anyway, again, this I'm I'm I'm

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open-minded and I know John Hammond, you

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had a different p you have, you know,

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you had a slightly different perspective

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last time. So if I don't I see you're in

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an office space. I don't know how much

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you can talk. Uh but if you're able to

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uh I'd like to hear your perspective.

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» Uh I'm actually in an airport, so uh

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hopefully background noise isn't uh

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terrible. Um

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you know, I guess I I'm still coming up

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to speed in how

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uh this process works and you know what

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um

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legal grounds we have to uh

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to justify the position that we want to

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take one way or the other. Um I think

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that

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I'm not sure that I was I heard enough

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one way or the other to say hey this is

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um

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a significant health risk or not. I I

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think that there is definitely

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multiple sides to the argument. My uh

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sorry, hang on one second.

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Sorry, the speaker's broken. So

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hopefully this isn't coming through too

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early, but um

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I guess I just don't don't know what

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recalls we have. Not necessarily to

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condition the five feet. Um

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but it's to me there was not outside of

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hey we haven't looked at it and um I

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just think that it would cause more

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issues with grading. not sure that there

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was a compelling reason why we can't

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why the project couldn't proceed while

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doing both or meeting the the local

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zoning laws. Um, and so I don't know if

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there's a process by which we can ask

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for more information or have that

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» Be considered in its impact, but I I

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think that was what I was looking for

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more than anything. But again, I'm I'm

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» New to the whole process and how this

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works.

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» No, appreciate it. I think um

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unfortunately our time for gathering

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information is over um and that we are

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we are stuck with the record that's that

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that has been created. Um

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I uh

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Todd Todd what are you what are your

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perspectives here?

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Yeah. So, you you'll recall at our

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previous meeting, I

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I too was un uncertain in terms of which

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way I was leaning um seeing the merits

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of both. Uh I also reviewed the Brush

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Hill decision and as Jonathan points

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out, we're not bound to um precedent in

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that regard as these projects are

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certainly unique and distinct and need

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to be uh vetted on a discrete basis. Um

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I I I do struggle with um the validity

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of an argument that local requirement of

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5T would be mandated with our approval.

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Um

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I I worry that it won't hold up through

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through appeal if appealed and and if

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that's the case then you know the end

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result is we're simply you know delaying

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a project that um in my opinion uh is is

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quite fit for the land quite reasonable

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and and otherwise um you know not posing

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a health and safety risk. So, as a

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matter of, you know, common sense and

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pragmatism, I'm I'm inclined to to say

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that, you know, meeting Title Five

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requirement is is sufficient. And, you

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know, the rest of my my concerns are um

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not significant enough for me to say

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that we need to dictate otherwise. What

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I hear what I hear you saying is that

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you don't think that the compelling

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local interest outweighs the determined

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interest for the need for affordable

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housing town is what I hear you saying.

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» Yes. Yes. To say it quite succinctly,

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Mr. Chair. Yes. I I I would agree with

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that

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» From your perspective.

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» Um

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» Well, I don't think we we don't have to

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make any final decisions today. Um, I

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think that we were we were I have my

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notes from my last meeting. Um, I

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started to put the draft together, but

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it is a very rough draft. Um, I will

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work on it this weekend and try to get

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you all a draft. I think what I'm

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hearing is that we want to um provide

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waiverss

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uh on the local regulations on both the

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depth to uh groundwater from a natural

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soils perspective as well as the depth

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the final uh design. So there's two

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different five foot waiverss I'm hearing

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I think we're inclined to be providing

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here. Um and I think we discussed you

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know the the conservation conditions uh

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that were agreed upon uh in the last

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meeting in terms of the restoration um

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the restoration standard u being a local

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standard that would be applied to the

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majority uh of the you know disturbed

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area surrounding the homes but for the

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backyard. So, um I think those are the

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two big ones. Um

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» I will write as I will um with sort of

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soft endorsement I will begin to write

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an opinion um in that direction and we

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can all review it and discuss it and

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vote I guess make a final vote um in the

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next meeting. Um we've got a bunch of

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meetings coming up so we'll have to set

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another meeting for deliberations. I

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don't know if we want to do that now um

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or we can do it by email. Uh we have to

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wrap this up roughly by the end of the

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month. A few days, you know, maybe a few

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days into November. November 4th is my

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cushion day. So, um

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you want to talk about a meeting? Um

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you do you do have a meeting on Tuesday

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morning at 9 Whitney Farm. I don't know

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whether you want to add this to it or is

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that too much.

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» It's too it'll be too soon. and I won't

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have enough time to put the draft

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together.

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» Okay.

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» It might, but I I can't guarantee it. Um

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» Okay,

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» Let me just look.

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» Could we do the Friday the 31st,

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which gives us

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uh It's a little tight. Could we do

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something the week of the 27th at 9:00

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in the morning?

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Any bad days?

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Well, I can do that. Say the 30th.

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» Want to do the 30th?

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» That works for me.

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» Okay. That way we may we we had to

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reconnect on Friday morning. We could at

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or Friday at some point maybe we could

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squeeze it in. So, why don't we do the

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30th at 9? So, uh, I would move to

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continue this hearing to October 30th at

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9:00 am. I'm assuming the hearing the,

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um, the deliberations of, uh, this 40

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project to the 30th at 9:00 a.m. Do I

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have a second?

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» Second.

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» Um, vote, uh, by roll to move it to the

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uh, 30th. Mr. Fish,

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» I.

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» Mr. Hammond,

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» I.

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» Mr. Lavin

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» I

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» McBride I so we will move to the 30th to

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continue the deliberations and I move to

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uh adjourn the meeting second

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» I second that

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» Wonderful uh vote by role

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Mr. Fitch

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» Ir Hammond

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» I

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» Mr. Labia

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» I

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» Right. I meetings adjourned. We'll see

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you all on Tuesday. Thank you very much.

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Have a good week.

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[Music]