and a little bit past mount Olive So that's 20.
That's 20 lights.
Yes.
So the other 16 lights are already part of the contract.
Okay Some lights and six lights at the intersection.
So sections are proposed to be lit.
So that the total is 36 lights.
The total lights for the entire trail Yeah would be 36 lights.
Okay Thank you for Can you confirm
for me like where it says number to furnish bollard light is.
So that's different to the 16 that
are the taller lights Correct.
The these are the pedestrian lights.
Pedestrian lights are about 14 to 16ft tall.
But for the ones that we're proposing are 14ft tall.
OK And that's 20 lights.
All right Councilmember Garcia and it's the exact same stove
of the 16 that are part of this, correct What information change?
Because I think last time we had we have the 20.
We're talking about the 20 still is it the laborer itself?
That's here?
What information?
So we took the we took the unit prices
from the from the contract that we have now and kind of
took those numbers as our cost estimate as opposed to the cost
estimate that we had received from south coast lighting
as, as a separate just separate contractor doing the work So we
we took the unit prices that were given
to us by the current contractor that we have And we just kind
of to do it as an analysis of like, you know, apples
to apples because in the next, in the next few slides,
I would show you how we did in an a cost analysis
for the other for the bollard lights as well as mirror family.
Did you have a question?
Yes, thank you Could you just go back to that picture Okay
So these light poles are approximately 100ft apart,
is that right?
The the way that the that the calculation
was made in order to create a safety lighting situation?
Yes, it would be they would be spaced between 100 to 150ft.
Okay Now, where are the bollards We haven't gotten
to that part yet Oh, okay.
Well, in that.
So this is a rendering of the pedestrian lighting
that we had originally talked about
and that that staff recommended.
And the last meeting.
So part of the request was that we provided pictures
and renderings of what it would look like placed and the trails.
So that you could have a better visual of that.
And that's what we're presenting here.
So I'm going to show you renderings for the other ones
as well.
OK.
One other question Crossing over the bike path at Mount Olive,
you have the one pole.
I'm talking about going north.
You have the one pole there.
That's really good at lighting up just the crosswalk now.
Now it.
It's seems to me you've got to have
about 30ft either side of where people
enter that intersect section.
How will that be lit.
Right.
So there there is another proposed light
across the street from that.
So now you'll have lights on both sides of the street
and then the next lights would be placed
on on both sides of the trail like moving
moving in both directions.
OK.
But will they be 100ft down?
They could be they could be placed a little bit
closer to create more light.
And that general intersection area.
And then from that point, there would be 100ft.
Okay.
And the reason I say this again, I cross it more than anybody
does.
And I even had a mobile workshop with Larry and Steve Hernandez
so they could see it.
People wear dark clothing and it's the the road is lit.
but it's on the other side.
And so I just I'm right that that was definitely
part of the assessment when it was considered that that
was one of the dark areas.
So it.
We go all the way from vineyard to past mount Olive And so about
700ft west of Mount Olive OK.
Thank you.
Out of the 20.
How many Just in that section from vineyard to Olive
it would be about 20.
It would be about 20 just for that one.
I Do have any more questions before we can
move on to Stephanie Do these lights
turn off pedestrian lighting?
Are they solar?
Are they are they automated?
Are they.
These are electric lights.
And the way that they're being requested
is to have an U.V. cell.
So then that would be turned on when
lights when the sun goes down.
And then they they were turned back off.
But there is an option to put a timer on it.
If you want it to turn off at a certain time
and it would have a clock or if you wanted to,
to turn on at a specific time and turn off it So
there's like a timer that you could set when to turn on.
And when they have the capability.
Yes.
OK All right.
I think we're good to keep hearing some more.
Thank you And so here's the one of the other options,
the electric bollard lights.
These would be tied to electric power.
This is a rendering of what they would look like if placed
along the trail And then this is a nighttime rendering
of those same bollards And where are those same place?
Excuse me, but we've already got the 14 foot lights.
These are these are option.
That's option one with the 14 foot
and these are the ballot bollards that we also use right
And so implementation of these lights placed
in the same location as of where we were proposing the 14
foot poles would require them to be
about ten feet on center space.
And so we calculated that to be about 270 bollards from vineyard
up to that at that same location And so
here is the same breakdown again I wanted to give you
all an apples to apples comparison
So the conduit cost is the same.
It would just be the cost of the bollards themselves.
And then the install option as well Installation part
is the mobilization And the mobilization.
Right.
Is that the installation?
Can you please repeat that?
The mobilization and demobilization
is that what is considered the installation costs for this
It would be part of the installation cost yes.
So the mobilization and demobilize zation typically
includes procurement of shipment and purchase
saying staff time from the contract actors.
This is where they throw in all of their extra costs
that would that would be required for for having
a contract with with the city.
The actual installation and the coding is is line item three,
which we've put it at $6,500 because they would require
footings and and digging for those footings and then and then
installing them and tapping into the id,
the electric all how deep are these putting for for a bollard
Two feet and so another another option for also this is also
an electric bollard but this is a concrete bollard because we
talked about just durability and how strong a bowler would be out
in the in the open like this.
So we also got costs for a concrete bollard
so they're going to cost for that is slightly higher
at $1,150 and this is it would look something like the one
in this image And so these that's the cost breakdown
for that same one And here are other examples where these are
not like renderings, but they're just
images of of implementation of these
of these types of bollards.
And at Irvine work walkway Another one
at the fire station at irvine and then this one in an HOA.
And irvine.
So these are all electrical bollards.
And you can see the spacing, how it's, you know just so you have
an idea of what these bollards look like So other lighting
solutions that were explored and that were brought up as
well during our last meeting, we're sold solar border
lights and solar lighting.
I did not provide any images for these,
but they're similar to the regular bollard light, how
they would look and the lighting consultant south coast lighting
does not recommend the solar bollards.
And for this trail, based on limited sun exposure and battery
life, significant being reduced, resulting in increased
maintenance costs and therefore, this
was not this was not an option that they recommend
for solar lighting It would require additional analysis
to determine the placement and the size of the poles
and footings and things like that.
So we did not we were not able to provide a cost estimate
for that at this point we are requesting
the Council to provide direction on how to proceed.
Either proceed with a change order to the Donald m Bernice
Watson Multi-Use pathway improvements project
or the installation of additional pedestrian lights
along the trail within the identified dark
areas in the amount of $500,000 or designate
another option that.
Does anyone any questions, comments or All right,
everyone let's go.
Councilmember lewis, are i I mean,
I don't even know where to start.
Five.
That's that's a lot of money for some light
But we need them I I just.
You know what mayor goes on what else?
I just got that got us Take this.
I got to swallow this big pill already
Council or mayor pro tem.
Thank you.
Thank you, Mayor.
And sorry for being late I was actually
stuck in traffic in Arcadia Nonetheless,
I appreciate this analysis.
And so on.
I think the cost of of putting a two
foot foundation in at $6,500 each
is Gillis That's what you said.
I'm certain that there are many ways
that we can go in and make this cheaper if we what
is the timeline on this thing?
This is not on the critical path in have week on any information
in regards to this solar power she just presented that what
there was not much on there the information
that I provided on solar bollards
is that they were not recommended
by the by the south coast.
Yes based on based on the longevity and the battery life
and the closeness of placement, would it
be possible for my colleagues, perhaps to table.
This in a way to perhaps a week or two more?
This is a full disclosure and we have to do this in public
Is that Brian and I, we actually a with the manufacturers
of these light ballers and LEDs, they are currently
providing some kind of renderings,
but I'm not sure what the status is in the designs and so on.
And perhaps we can have a different point of view,
especially the pricing wise, having just one person telling
me that this is going to be $6,500 per each baller I find
it to be very inconceivable all $2.4
million to dig two foot hole.
I'm just not for it.
I, I would appreciate it if we can perhaps look for other bids,
and so on.
Just to have that interoperability.
So just to clarify the cost.
I'm sorry the cost, the estimate that was provided
is a cost estimate.
And it is not a quote from a contract for at this time.
This was for another estimating.
I think that's estimate is certainly
exceeding what I think our my colleagues
I'm just speaking on my own.
But i think this is pretty extravagant price
tag for something like this.
And i did talk to some of the manufacturers
and they did a walkthrough on it.
With that said so in the beginning of these these policy
solar panels yes, it is true that they need to go and be
fully charge at eight hours.
But later on they can't or very susceptible
And it's possible to do it in 3, 2 4 hours.
And so on So with that said, I don't have enough information
in having $6,000 $6,500 for a two foot aisle, I'll take
that job to take that.
I think we need to go and table it just a little bit longer
or if if my colleagues and so I sat
in on a meeting with Councilmember Kang
that he set up with Deco lighting last week
They stated that it would take them 24 to 48 hours
to get this rendering and some prices.
I reached out to them yesterday, and they responded.
They were still looking into it.
So we have nothing from them.
So I have no idea what they can or can't
do as related to this project.
If we stand here today and obviously council can table it
if we table it, that this won't be a change
order to what we're doing right now,
it will be a separate project.
We will have to go out and go through that process So yes,
there there is some timing to this,
but that's not to say that we can't do that to add to this,
there is the potential since we did request from Senator Rubio
300,000 for a lighting project.
It looks promising.
Obviously nothing has been signed by the governor
And so until that happens we we very could get 300,000,
but we just as easily could not unless it's signed.
But I just wanted to throw that out there on the table.
If there's nothing to do for myself because like I'm with I'm
Kevin Parker with South Coast Lighting,
we don't do any of the installation,
we just provide the lights.
But we we did Photometric reports on the bollards.
And so when you saw that rendering
that was a bollard that was basically
five feet from the path and the bus or bollards three feet tall
and having been in lighting for ten years,
the lower the light is, the less it's going to throw.
And typically in a ball or two, you also want to throw out
So the taller lights there's 14 footers
are throwing side to side.
The bollards are going to have to throw directly out to even
get to the path And even then when you get to the edge
of the path you're looking I'll first of all,
talking for candles It's about 2.1ft candles, which is no.
So the example is full moon.
So that's basically the light you're getting at the last one
third of the path outside of 1/3 of the path
where the bollards would be.
So again the if you really want to light the path,
you want to go with the 14 foot and the other company
that you're talking to about with the bollards,
I wouldn't just have them do a rendering.
I'd absolutely 100% ask for a photo report
because it uses specific file called an IRS file
And that's how the light performs
using different like different types of light patterns.
I'll put it that way Instead saying type one, type 2 type 3.
But there's different types of light distribution patterns.
And I 100% would ask for that.
And tell them how far back you want the bollard from the path
because we did all that for you know, for Stephanie
and the bollards just weren't cutting it
even when we had it five feet from the path
to get it to light the path, you have
to have it right on the path.
You have them all lined up against the path.
So that's all on the solar bollards
If I were about one fourth, the light output
as the grid tied bollards now that's up That's
all I have to say.
Thank you.
And I did remember something else additionally,
the deco lighting stated that bollards would be spaced
6 to 8ft apart in this plan.
It's ten feet.
So it's I don't think we're trying to add
bollards potentially on this.
Obviously, it's the cost that's hanging up council
and but we have no idea what other manufacturers are
would charge us per light and installation.
Yeah, I strongly suggest that even for my company out there,
I get at least three different estimates or quotes are OEM
and whatever.
And so on I'm not going to go in and heavily reliant on just one,
especially with a price tag of $2.4 million
and some member friendly.
Thank you.
Sorry to me the lighting is so much better
with those 14 foot lights, if that's if what we're seeing
is reality.
Yes I also look at those being 100ft apart
as opposed to 8 or 10ft apart.
I'm just our liability There is going to be that much
greater to say nothing of.
Even if we get a lower cost on this it would
be 500,000 versus say 50%.
And we cut the bollard estimate by 50%.
That's still going to be 2 to 2 and a 1/2 times
higher than the 14 foot lights.
With those 14 foot lights working of liable bility
is there with that And by that I mean
are there going to be can people climb up
to the top of those poles and rip something off of their
that would be something they can use,
whether it's some sort of metal or something like that.
I just I want this thing to last because goodness knows,
we see a lot of these things that they put them in
and then they're gone Yeah, correct.
Well, I'm going to answer your question based on several years
ago, we well, I just used Menards
because you talked about earlier at the intersection at all.
And we put a light on one side.
The reason the light was on one side of time
is that's where we had electric, you know,
so but that particular light has been there the entire time
and there's been no damage to guarantee that somebody is
not going to mess with stuff.
But I will tell you that we have some example
out there where that particular light has been has been,
has been fine.
So you know, and any will be doing taking security measures
on anything, the lighting that was approved
as part of the contract.
And that's getting built that's there's
lots of security measures that that's what that whole thing is
change with lighting.
So much in the last few years.
But i don't think that's the picture itself is is any more
risk than anything we currently have in the city
For example, down on Evergreen, we
have pedestrian lights along Evergreen that will
hopefully those will be back soon.
But those we we had a problem with those
we're in the process of fixing that.
At one of your last meetings we the pullback
covers that or we could take care of that problem.
So I think that it i think we've planned for that as best we
can And then my final question is, Brian you talked
about the senators maybe being able to help us out
with something like this one.
Are we going to know about that The last comment I received
from them was I'll request go to the governor
by the end of the month.
So we should know at the end of the month Geez,
you think he'd have something more important
on his plate or 300,000?
I think he has a lot of important things on his plate.
Right.
I think they're budgeting right now.
I think my question is just so I saw
the light in the original sample you gave us,
and it looks really well lit.
It's I'm going to guess it's some form of air or something
And then the next one is like 100 octave darker.
Is that a pretty true The idea of what
the difference will be between the 14 foot and the bollards
Can you repeat that again?
So like, okay, let's go up to the if you don't mind,
I'm pulling up the report, so let's go to the beginning
where you're showing us the sample of the Not that one.
Next one.
Okay So that looks amazingly lit and very, very beautiful.
So then we go down a couple more slides to the bollard sample
and it's completely darker.
Is that a pretty.
And so is that a pretty accurate rendition
of the light difference that we would see having
run the Photometric reports?
Yeah, that's pretty close It probably
would be more gradual as it gets to the edge of the path
and it'll barely be it.
The edge of the path, it'll be like full moon, right?
So picture the last third of that path
under a full moon light.
That's how the edge would look.
OK, I just want to make sure like that that is.
It's very much okay.
And then my other question, Stephanie, is if we like,
let's just say I'm just trying to make
sure I have an understanding of all of our options right?
If we were let's just say we were to go with the bollards,
right?
That's still doesn't we're still getting those original six
or whatever that are in the regular plan that are 14.
So that's probably not considered in this picture
that there will be some sporadic 14 footers that
are already in plan Correct.
That they're not in this like they're not in this area at all.
Right.
They're not in this area.
I just like to have like a full idea of what I'm looking
at because, you know for me, like I, you know,
aesthetically we bollard versus the tall ones
I'm not super concerned.
But I don't know the rest of council has different ideas.
And that's fine.
I like the look of that first one.
Lighting wise.
But that's just what I'm being presented
If you were to choose to choose to do nothing,
we use still get to see in real life.
What those 14 foot poles are going to look like.
Because they are getting installed.
They're going out of the project around that Oak Bridge area
And when is that part of the project expected to be completed
They're currently working on the conduit
and putting all of all of the features to it.
And we approved the it's the submittal for the light for them
to purchase the light.
So it could be a few weeks before we saw that.
Yeah.
You know the thing I would add that is that, you know,
they need to get solar, which is probably September ish maybe,
but they also, depending on what they're being hooked to,
we might need Edison to, to power them
up depending on the those are going to get
hooked up to existing power.
So it's not part of a new over brand new electrical October
potentially OK.
So my other question is, if we were
to pause this additional lighting till we get a maybe
some more details that the rest of council
might be wanting and be finding out about our funding options
is that going to significantly change the plans if it were
to be done subsequent or after, sorry,
October when we already have a good idea
of what the lighting is going to be like I think there would be.
I think that's why that cost estimate changes a little bit as
well, because there would be there would
be a change to doing it later because the crews are
out here now.
They're doing.
They're doing all that led legwork now.
And it would basically do a be another mobilization
for something.
And they probably have to dig up stuff that we just put down.
Right.
So so according to our schedule, the paving
of the rest of the trail would be
happening sometime next month.
Of course, that that's always subject to change.
But that's kind of like the way that it's going,
not to say that the lights can't go in afterward The conduit
would be outside of the trail anyway
So what's a realistic or just a conservative timeline
that we have to make a decision on this
to where it doesn't affect the natural progression of the trail
improvements Probably mid-September at the latest We
have already asked them for the cost
for the cost estimate for it.
So it, we would have like a more solid
number at that point anyway OK.
If we wanted to, to have them place the order
does anybody else have follow up questions?
Councilmember Garcia i'm still stuck on, on.
I think our biggest liability for pedestrians
is at those intersections where we're
already going to be getting that light in our current scope.
Our trail isn't it?
Does it look nice?
Would it be nice?
I think yes.
But liability wise, I mean, what's our liability
now without it being lit?
It's at your own risk, right?
I mean, it's and it's a multi use trail
don't we have signs that kind of help us out in any Yeah Yeah.
And some light is better than no light and mean,
we're getting 60 new poles intersection
and under the bridge where it tends to be dark now
between vineyard and olive it is super dark there in the evening.
So it would be a great addition.
However, can we get away by splitting this like content
for fill that sense of safety?
I mean, you could light it up like daylight but will
you still feel so?
I mean, I know how you measure safety
The 20 the 20 lights were kind of evenly space
throughout that length.
If if you wanted to just create light
closer to the intersections and not, not bridge all those gaps
and just maybe do two lights in addition to the intersections
to just kind of be closer to the intersection,
that could be something that you would want to do.
It's not like you're going to fully
light the trail anyway with these with the proposed work.
My my second comment would be now you give us a cost estimate.
But with the crews out there right now,
they can't really give us an actual quote for the labor.
It just it's just been a delay on like, okay,
additional questions of like, oh, well, what about,
you know, conduit and lights.
So they're working there were working on it.
They just couldn't get 1 2 us fast enough.
So we ended up going with what the what the cost for what's
part of the contract was So what is the council thinking I'm I
know some people might want to table it, but if we table it,
we need to have a plan of action.
I thought okay.
And a statement suggestion one.
I think the process, this whole process
was a little bit backwards We should have
probably had this discussion before anybody
broke around on the trail.
So that we wouldn't have to come back and hold special meetings
regarding how the lighting should
be how aesthetically pleasing it should look.
I think these conversations as we're supposed to be,
had before even an RFP went out to any contractors for this job.
I think that's my first statement.
And I truly believe that.
I think fairly similar to the way the Dorothy Park was where
we were provided renderings, the cost of option one,
option two, option 3, and we actually went with option four
where we broke it up in stages because we
felt that that was more in line with what
the council was thinking.
I think that that was it's very important to start the process
that way before any ground needs to be broken on any projects
that we do.
I think these type of discussions
are very important because it's holding right now.
What we're doing is holding the project back
and it doesn't do anybody any good at all.
It doesn't do our residents good because they're just
going to be stuck with construction
while utilizing that trail It doesn't do council any good.
Well, hosting special meetings regarding lighting on a trail
that we already have funds for that that's my personal opinion.
I don't know what the rest of the council thinks,
but I think that's just a smarter process
to go forward with next time we have
any community development work.
And when we do have those presentations,
I think renderings such as you provided today
would help provide us a good, reasonable idea
of what it would look like before the project goes out
to RFP.
And any contractors that want to bid on the RFP He knows
that this is pretty much how they need,
what they need to do to make it fulfill the council
and the residents needs Second, I think right now with the way
the timeline is specifically with the governor
signing these funds over and basically, we don't know we're
going to get this right.
And not he can wake up on the wrong side of the bed tomorrow
and said you know what, Nobody's getting any money And if we
approve this today we'll be stuck with
$300,000 out of our pocket.
The other thing I'm thinking is this.
You know, I understand that the public safety for the public
and residents that utilize this trail but from my knowledge,
having a few friends that are runners that know that they are
running at nighttime or when sunsets they are equipped
with lights, reflectors that they have on
and lights to be able to see the path for them
to run The other concern is when we light this path in this trail
the residents that are on this trail they get
affected by the lights that we put there,
such as the Edison lights.
Regardless if we say yes or no, those Edison lights are going on
and there are homes that are along that trail that will be
lit up, specifically their backyards
And they're a part of a part of the homes.
And when that happens speaking to some of our public safety
department deputies, are we inviting unwanted individuals
to this path when they're not supposed to be on this path
Are we inviting unhoused individual
those at certain times to this path to utilize it
as an encampment site, a campsite?
When we light up this path I think
that making this trail aesthetically pleasing,
it's great Probably other ways to go about it.
But I think with the 40 foot lights
adding the extra ones will light this trail a way
too much for my liking.
And it becomes a public safety issue after not a pedestrian
safety but a public safety issue where we're going to have a lot
of unwanted individuals on that path and our deputies are going
to be utilized for these issues for me right now,
because we don't have the $300,000 and we don't have any
written documents from our senators saying
that we have these $300,000.
I'm going to vote no.
And just continue to do what we have already done.
Whatever the the work order is I wouldn't change it.
That's that's my opinion right now Thank you If we were
to table this, can we get enough information back at the next
council meeting in a week ?
I give them a deadline of last week,
and they were still working on it
So I would hope that by next week we would have a number.
OK That's the only reason I would be willing to do it,
because i understand that we're kind of up against a rock
and a hard place.
We all know that we as council members
should all be getting the same information and a council
manager form of government.
That's what you do.
And we can't all get the same information
if we're all going out and talking with different people.
So I would suggest then that we go ahead
and bring them in here to the next council meeting.
If we're going to table it I agree.
I think we should bring everyone in.
Councilmember Gordon my only fear with tabling it and not
doing anything will I just feel like if we table that we already
waited like two, three weeks.
And the price went up $200,000 in three weeks.
My fear is if we wait a month, it'll go up double And then
on top of that, I agree.
I don't think it needs to be totally late
Maybe have it at 80% or 70% and instead of doing 20, we do 12.
But I understand that it's hard to vote
on something when you don't know if you have the funds for it.
But at the same time, I wouldn't like to have this conversation
a year from now where we have to say, put it out to bid,
and then it costs us $1 million to ride the trail again
It's just there's so much uncertainty.
I think if we table that we definitely
have to make a decision before middle of September
just so we don't stop the project
or don't add to the price tag.
I think you can.
Mayor Pro Tem yeah.
With this hyper inflation I think
it's certainly ridiculous less.
But within two weeks 200,000.
I think that's quite inconceivable poll for me
One thing is I certainly want more bids or more estimators
and so on.
I'm not going to heavily rely on just One person.
I'm not going to go ahead and do that.
I will never, ever go and do that.
And i want to know more information
before I'm able to go and decide who to use.
I'm not going to go and just listen to one person.
I'm going to go and listen to at least three people
to understand.
And this i do not think that $6,500 per or excavating to feed
and stalling I don't think that number it
wouldn't add up to me For me.
In addition I seriously strongly suggest at that for us
to do for every detail, information and renderings
and so on, when we ask developers and architects
and you guys know this for the plans
to for submittals you guys would even critique in regards
to the shades of the paint wise that we're
not able to go and get these kind of renderings.
We should be able to go and get these renderings
and so on because you're expecting that
for the developers and i would expect us to go and do something
that's even better I totally agree
with councilwoman Ann Finley.
I really believe that we need to go in and bring everyone in
to have a good confess ation.
So all of us will have more information
so we can go and decide, rather than relying on one consultant.
As far.
Now So can we make a roll call vote then for wanting to table.
This and bring everybody in and one.
This has no, don't change to change order.
Councilmember Louis would like to speak I
I agree with every you know, everything
that everyone's saying and I, I I totally think
i I'm for bringing everyone in.
But it doesn't make any sense to pause when they
already broke ground already.
So and they're not and basically, if we tell them
if we table it then work's going to I mean,
the work is going to still go on out there
and, and it's critical that and if they finish the 16 lights
that we already permanently have, then for them to come
back and do the rest of the lights
if we decide if we if we decide it is going to cost us
extra money, because they're going to have to come back So
I suggest we just get it done.
I mean, make a decision and what we had I
I'm totally agree with cesar Mr. Garcia.
And Mr. Calderon.
I I think we should we i don't think we need 20 extra lights
because I think, 36 lights on the path is I mean,
that's a lot of lighting.
I think we should cut that 20 number in half
and cut him in and cut it in half.
I mean 25 or 26 lights along the path should be clear right?
Well, I think we need to give some direction
And I don't think any of us are lighting experts up here.
So i do think we need to come to a decision
and decide what the staff can bring to us that will allow us
to make a decision So perhaps maybe some kind of an expert
opinion on a slight scale back on the lights
like okay, we've got the 20 plus the 16,
What would it look like if we had a ten plus the 16
or possibly a 12 plus The 16 are we are looking to hopefully
get another opinion that we are waiting for some information on.
And then the alternate.
We do have the final recommendation for the full 20
lights with the 14 foot, as well as the Ballard
with the $6,000 installation cost Councilmember Finley,
thank you.
I am not a prognosticator but I can tell you right now,
in a year and a half or whenever people are walking along there
at night and they're going to go you ripped up this bike path
and you didn't put lights in just I'm just telling you
exactly what's going to happen.
But that being said, I also believe that lighting here
and Larry will tell you lighting keeps
people away if they have nefarious things on their minds.
So I don't believe it will attract
people that shouldn't be there.
I believe it will attract people that want to walk
up and down the bike path.
And if there.
I, I walk that bike path almost every day.
Most of the homes that are on the north side of Royal Oaks
Drive between where the curbs are they
almost all have some growth, high growth in between
their houses and the bike path.
So I don't really think it's going to affect them.
And frankly if it does, we'll just go ahead and plant
something there for them.
All of that being said, I would like
to make a motion that we bring this back in a week with more
options for all of us, and that's you know,
the different bollard people, any of those where we can make
actually So this is a change order because we're already
and existing project, which is why you only
have one person bidding this.
And what's going and not getting multiple bids.
OK.
If that's the council's direction,
then we should just go out, make this its own separate project,
go through the bid process and receive
the lowest responsible bidder.
That's going to cost us a lot more money.
Brian i know, but this is where we're
at today and just refreshed.
Got the council's the way this went
is when the award of contract went
for this trail and this job.
Yeah.
The discussion among council was that we would look at a phase
two for lighting the phase two, which could be this is got
bumped up to the capture rate.
Now while we're in this project, which is why we're here in this
talking about it the way we are right now
instead of finishing the project and going to phase two, much
like we did for Dorothy Park.
So it's a little bit tricky just because we're
in the middle of this project and because of the change order,
we only have that one person bidding
But again, if council's direction is it we bring
it back, Then we, we just make it a whole separate project Can
it still be a change order if US contractors gives us
a number them and we're not, which I'm
sorry if the current contractor gives us their actual cost No,
that just yes, that would be a change order.
But if we are looking for several bids right then
we need to go out for a whole different project.
But right now, we haven't got the actual number
from this contract.
Correct So also correction.
And you're absolutely right The beginning before this.
Bye.
By track bike path contract went out.
We talked about lighting.
So we did ask for lighting.
I know the problem is, is the lighting was split to phase two.
Like brian said because there was a timeline
that the work needed to start on this path.
So lighting was asked at the beginning
but lighting was not provided.
That's why we had split it up to phase two.
And we didn't know there was the potential
of getting 300,000 either.
Yeah, we didn't know that until Two weeks ago.
If I, if I could just add one more thing.
So the trail is being funded by a grant
And that grant was that's the grant request
was submitted years ago.
And as part of the requests for the grant,
there was safety lighting included.
And that's where that that lighting at the intersections
was included.
And that's where the lighting by the bridge was included.
So there was always lighting safety, lighting included
as part of the request for the funds
as well as for the the actual design of the trail project.
And that's what was awarded when the contract
was brought to be awarded.
That's when the conversation of having even more lighting
was brought up.
And that's where i think there must have been like a missed
communication because the council never
just wanted safety lighting.
So I think that's where the disconnect is.
This was years ago.
Yeah, yeah.
And i do recall, if I may, a static right?
It's not just to safety part of it,
the aesthetic It's like the beautification If this is
about safety, just go ahead, make it like a stadium
But we got to making sure that this looks good.
And I vividly i've been saying this for how many years right?
It's always about having it.
Also, look good, too.
And that has to be part of the requirement
going forward So just so I understand,
are you just very much against the tall 14 foot?
Because for me, I am not okay, because I'm just
trying to see where everyone's out with that
because because I like it.
So it's not an issue to me.
And so I'm trying to see how do we get over this issue?
Are we stuck on the bollard lighting aesthetically
and is that where we're getting or like Mayor, if I may, yeah,
I I'm seeking for more information and the information
I got today it's not sufficient enough for me to go and make
a decision and I'll give you where I'm at I like the 44
balls, one because they're already the polls are going
to be installed and I don't want us to deal
with poll and intersection bollard, bollard pull bridge
or bollard.
So there should be conformity So I'm for the 14 polls.
I'm just one.
Do we have we need to make sure we have those funds right.
That changes everything.
If we can get something if we table.
This with enough time for the contractor
to not affect their critical path and the funding
and give us enough time to give us
an actual number for their word, I guess I'm open to that.
But just to counter, I know you talked about, in the future,
if people say, oh, we didn't put lights,
I've had a one call during this whole workshop of someone who
regularly goes to the trail and there was saying,
Are you really going to spend that much money on lights?
So there's also that argument, right
I think having the funds securing the funds would make
this process a lot smoother and would allow us
to make a decision much faster.
But if we don't have the funding, then I've already said,
I agree with you.
I think we need to go in and search
a little bit more That $6,500 are
going put to fund foundation.
I absolutely.
I can't swallow that.
I'm sorry.
That's not a bid price.
It's just a cost estimate Just just so i'm trying to because we
have i know you said we like concert,
you know, conservatives we have to mid September
so or early September.
I guess and we might know.
But we're not for sure about a possible funding
grant by the end of this month correct.
Brian So and then so I feel like we're looking for pieces
of the puzzle, the final information
that you're going to get on the cost,
whether or not we're going to get any funding,
granting And we also kind of need that before the September
Now, if we're going to bring in other contractors
and other Ballard lightings and changing the plan,
I understand that's going to be have
something that will probably have to be
tabled and done as a phase two.
So is everyone in agreement?
Those are kind of that's kind of where we're at So where would we
move the follow up on this that we would hopefully have
the information Stephanie needs the information from Senator
in time to not interfere the plans that are in motion Well,
I think it's a good point to make sure that we have
a price from the contractor.
So we know exactly what that cost
is And I'm speaking for what We got a price on there.
Maybe a separate issue with bollards or whatever the case
might be I think the biggest impact,
correct me if you don't agree with it,
you've been doing with the contractor more
than I have The issue is keeping them on the site longer.
We probably have some time.
You know it's not best case, but if we get i would say i'm hoping
by next week, we would have a contractor
price But we may not know the answer on the other $2,000.
I just my perception watching from the sidelines
it it probably would be nice to know both of those
answers before.
So if we know them in a week, that's
fine If we know I'm at the first meeting September,
the worst case is the contractor is
going to charge a little bit because he
needs to keep people on site.
A lot of this is being done with a submission director
because there's an electrical subcontractor
that probably don't have a lot of control over that.
But it probably makes more sense to just wait and make
sure we have the price correct.
And we would know what the impact
the price might go up a little bit,
but we'd at least know what it is.
Okay.
And if we wait for those two factors and then,
Brian, if we were to be able to accept just more for information
from another Ballard Light Ballard light expert,
that information we know would be having to be
considered into a phase two.
But at least we would have that information so that we could
make our final call with the other two
pieces that sound reasonable ?
Yeah.
Yes.
OK.
So we are So how do I present this tie?
I don't know So you will just need
to give direction and ideally in this case,
because I'm hearing a lot of different thoughts
is to have a motion.
Appreciate it.
Wouldn't be taking any action unless you want to direct staff.
The motion would be, you know, I motion to direct staff X OK.
I need a second and then if somebody disagrees,
they can do us a motion.
OK One last question, Mayor.
Yes?
After we approve submittals for the lights,
what's the length for procurement
on each of those poles?
I think it's a couple of weeks to.
So they're those.
Yeah.
OK.
Okay.
Motion to table.
This to in order to secure pricing from the contractor
and any possible grant funding that may or may not occur as
well as gather additional information for consideration
for phase two, for additions all contractors or manufacturers
or And how soon do you want it back?
Next week.
Would it be next week or we would
want it the first week of September
or first meeting of September.
We will aim for next week, but we won't know on the grant
until the end of the month So it would be
the first meeting is September.
So So at a future council meeting.
Okay.
At a future council meeting as soon as readily available So
I'll move that motion.
Okay Okay.
Second Second.
All in favor Any opposed?
Do you need to do a roll call?
OK Councilmember Calderon, Councilmember Garcia Yes.
Councilmember Trump Yeah.
Councilmember Lewis.
I Councilmember Finlay.
Yes Mayor Pro Tem King.
Yes.
And Mayor Martin Del Campo?
Yes Motion carries All right.
And mayor for a little clarifying it,
is it possible that we can find out, like and still
have 20 of those lights How much like that
would be for like a total of 25, like addition or, you know,
like a like additional ten additional 12, a total of 25.
But we want to let he's saying 16 plus 6 I think I mean,
my opinion would be that we need.
That's not our level of expertise to I don't know.
I don't know what to do about that.
One I guess.
But come back and see if they're spaced out more.
If we didn't do the 20 the lighting output
would be different at a different spacing.
So it would be a different analysis All right Okay.
But just for clarification and please correct me
if I'm wrong we can always ask the the contractor to say, what
if we only had, you know, X number of ballots,
you know, but as to the aesthetic portion,
it will look different.
And that would be a different discussion potentially Okay.
I don't know how to word that one,
but maybe if you can provide any information about a slight scale
down, what that might look like aesthetically and cost wise,
I will provide a cost breakdown just like I did for this one.
So you can reduce or increase the number,
and you'll get an easy calculation.
Would that be an estimate ? the direction
is to get the actual cost proposal from the contractor.
So that's what we will bring back Okay.
Okay.
I'm going to do this part real quick to wrap this up.
Officially, if you wish to speak on any items listed
on the special meeting agenda, you
may do so at this time Each member of the public
have a total of three minutes to speak.
The council cannot discuss or take actions
on the matters on the agenda.
For this meeting, we will call on members
of the public participating in person first, followed
by everyone participants If you're participating on a Zoom,
please raise your digital hand.
Now or press nine on the phone if you wish to speak.
Do we have any comments?
I'm making a final call We do have a Zoom Attendee OK
This process is now I'm going to make a final call for them
to raise their hand and nothing.
And do we have any members of the public that wish to speak?
I am going to adjourn the meeting Thank you Thank
you for attending on Zoom.
Whoever it is and I did walk into the court.
I was just of i don't know, our so we are far more private Well,
that's my yeah you entire you're in your i mean, I know Yeah.
Yeah, I can I could ask you and I can ask him for a vote walking
the power from a power pole.
Right.
No.
Yeah exactly.
Yeah, yeah, yeah Right.
And so we have one on one.
I'm not right.
You're limited with your with you.
So look at how far you bring rights.
That's pretty expensive.
I think if are on the national parks.
It's not really I mean, I could ask.
All right.
I just to get a ballpark i know they
want an exact number or this is the first thing I do.
That exact number is.