[0:00] and a little bit past
mount Olive So that's 20.
[0:05] That's 20 lights.
[0:06] Yes.
[0:06] So the other 16 lights are
already part of the contract.
[0:10] Okay Some lights and six
lights at the intersection.
[0:12] So sections are
proposed to be lit.
[0:15] So that the total is 36 lights.
[0:18] The total lights for the entire
trail Yeah would be 36 lights.
[0:22] Okay Thank you for
Can you confirm
[0:25] for me like where it says number
to furnish bollard light is.
[0:28] So that's different
to the 16 that
[0:30] are the taller lights Correct.
[0:33] The these are the
pedestrian lights.
[0:37] Pedestrian lights are
about 14 to 16ft tall.
[0:42] But for the ones that we're
proposing are 14ft tall.
[0:45] OK And that's 20 lights.
[0:47] All right Councilmember Garcia
and it's the exact same stove
[0:51] of the 16 that are part of this,
correct What information change?
[0:56] Because I think last time
we had we have the 20.
[1:00] We're talking about the 20
still is it the laborer itself?
[1:04] That's here?
[1:05] What information?
[1:06] So we took the we
took the unit prices
[1:09] from the from the contract
that we have now and kind of
[1:13] took those numbers as our cost
estimate as opposed to the cost
[1:18] estimate that we had received
from south coast lighting
[1:20] as, as a separate just separate
contractor doing the work So we
[1:26] we took the unit
prices that were given
[1:29] to us by the current contractor
that we have And we just kind
[1:33] of to do it as an analysis
of like, you know, apples
[1:36] to apples because in the
next, in the next few slides,
[1:39] I would show you how we
did in an a cost analysis
[1:42] for the other for the bollard
lights as well as mirror family.
[1:47] Did you have a question?
[1:49] Yes, thank you Could you just
go back to that picture Okay
[1:58] So these light poles are
approximately 100ft apart,
[2:03] is that right?
[2:04] The the way that the
that the calculation
[2:06] was made in order to create
a safety lighting situation?
[2:11] Yes, it would be they would be
spaced between 100 to 150ft.
[2:17] Okay Now, where are the
bollards We haven't gotten
[2:24] to that part yet Oh, okay.
[2:26] Well, in that.
[2:27] So this is a rendering of
the pedestrian lighting
[2:30] that we had originally
talked about
[2:32] and that that staff recommended.
[2:34] And the last meeting.
[2:35] So part of the request was
that we provided pictures
[2:38] and renderings of what it would
look like placed and the trails.
[2:42] So that you could have
a better visual of that.
[2:45] And that's what we're
presenting here.
[2:47] So I'm going to show you
renderings for the other ones
[2:50] as well.
[2:51] OK.
[2:51] One other question Crossing over
the bike path at Mount Olive,
[2:57] you have the one pole.
[2:59] I'm talking about going north.
[3:01] You have the one pole there.
[3:03] That's really good at lighting
up just the crosswalk now.
[3:07] Now it.
[3:08] It's seems to me
you've got to have
[3:10] about 30ft either
side of where people
[3:14] enter that intersect section.
[3:16] How will that be lit.
[3:18] Right.
[3:18] So there there is
another proposed light
[3:21] across the street from that.
[3:22] So now you'll have lights
on both sides of the street
[3:25] and then the next
lights would be placed
[3:29] on on both sides of
the trail like moving
[3:32] moving in both directions.
[3:33] OK.
[3:34] But will they be 100ft down?
[3:37] They could be they could
be placed a little bit
[3:41] closer to create more light.
[3:43] And that general
intersection area.
[3:44] And then from that point,
there would be 100ft.
[3:48] Okay.
[3:48] And the reason I say this again,
I cross it more than anybody
[3:52] does.
[3:53] And I even had a mobile workshop
with Larry and Steve Hernandez
[3:57] so they could see it.
[3:58] People wear dark clothing
and it's the the road is lit.
[4:05] but it's on the other side.
[4:07] And so I just I'm right
that that was definitely
[4:11] part of the assessment when
it was considered that that
[4:14] was one of the dark areas.
[4:17] So it.
[4:17] We go all the way from vineyard
to past mount Olive And so about
[4:23] 700ft west of Mount Olive OK.
[4:27] Thank you.
[4:27] Out of the 20.
[4:28] How many Just in that section
from vineyard to Olive
[4:32] it would be about 20.
[4:33] It would be about 20
just for that one.
[4:36] I Do have any more
questions before we can
[4:37] move on to Stephanie
Do these lights
[4:39] turn off pedestrian lighting?
[4:41] Are they solar?
[4:42] Are they are they automated?
[4:45] Are they.
[4:45] These are electric lights.
[4:47] And the way that
they're being requested
[4:50] is to have an U.V. cell.
[4:52] So then that would
be turned on when
[4:54] lights when the sun goes down.
[4:56] And then they they
were turned back off.
[4:59] But there is an option
to put a timer on it.
[5:03] If you want it to turn
off at a certain time
[5:05] and it would have a clock
or if you wanted to,
[5:08] to turn on at a specific
time and turn off it So
[5:11] there's like a timer that you
could set when to turn on.
[5:13] And when they have
the capability.
[5:15] Yes.
[5:16] OK All right.
[5:18] I think we're good to
keep hearing some more.
[5:20] Thank you And so here's the
one of the other options,
[5:26] the electric bollard lights.
[5:28] These would be tied
to electric power.
[5:33] This is a rendering of what
they would look like if placed
[5:36] along the trail And then
this is a nighttime rendering
[5:43] of those same bollards And
where are those same place?
[5:54] Excuse me, but we've already
got the 14 foot lights.
[5:59] These are these are option.
[6:00] That's option one
with the 14 foot
[6:02] and these are the ballot
bollards that we also use right
[6:08] And so implementation
of these lights placed
[6:12] in the same location as of
where we were proposing the 14
[6:16] foot poles would
require them to be
[6:20] about ten feet on center space.
[6:23] And so we calculated that to be
about 270 bollards from vineyard
[6:29] up to that at that
same location And so
[6:34] here is the same breakdown
again I wanted to give you
[6:37] all an apples to
apples comparison
[6:40] So the conduit cost is the same.
[6:43] It would just be the cost
of the bollards themselves.
[6:49] And then the install option
as well Installation part
[6:52] is the mobilization
And the mobilization.
[6:54] Right.
[6:55] Is that the installation?
[6:57] Can you please repeat that?
[6:58] The mobilization
and demobilization
[7:01] is that what is considered the
installation costs for this
[7:05] It would be part of the
installation cost yes.
[7:07] So the mobilization and
demobilize zation typically
[7:12] includes procurement of
shipment and purchase
[7:18] saying staff time from
the contract actors.
[7:21] This is where they throw
in all of their extra costs
[7:24] that would that would be
required for for having
[7:29] a contract with with the city.
[7:31] The actual installation and the
coding is is line item three,
[7:35] which we've put it at $6,500
because they would require
[7:39] footings and and digging for
those footings and then and then
[7:44] installing them and
tapping into the id,
[7:47] the electric all how deep are
these putting for for a bollard
[7:57] Two feet and so another another
option for also this is also
[8:08] an electric bollard but this is
a concrete bollard because we
[8:12] talked about just durability and
how strong a bowler would be out
[8:19] in the in the open like this.
[8:20] So we also got costs
for a concrete bollard
[8:23] so they're going to cost
for that is slightly higher
[8:26] at $1,150 and this is it would
look something like the one
[8:30] in this image And so these
that's the cost breakdown
[8:36] for that same one And here are
other examples where these are
[8:44] not like renderings,
but they're just
[8:46] images of of
implementation of these
[8:51] of these types of bollards.
[8:52] And at Irvine work
walkway Another one
[8:57] at the fire station at irvine
and then this one in an HOA.
[9:04] And irvine.
[9:05] So these are all
electrical bollards.
[9:07] And you can see the spacing, how
it's, you know just so you have
[9:10] an idea of what these bollards
look like So other lighting
[9:17] solutions that were explored
and that were brought up as
[9:21] well during our last meeting,
we're sold solar border
[9:24] lights and solar lighting.
[9:26] I did not provide
any images for these,
[9:30] but they're similar to the
regular bollard light, how
[9:33] they would look and the lighting
consultant south coast lighting
[9:37] does not recommend
the solar bollards.
[9:39] And for this trail, based on
limited sun exposure and battery
[9:45] life, significant being
reduced, resulting in increased
[9:48] maintenance costs
and therefore, this
[9:50] was not this was not an
option that they recommend
[9:54] for solar lighting It would
require additional analysis
[9:59] to determine the placement
and the size of the poles
[10:02] and footings and
things like that.
[10:04] So we did not we were not able
to provide a cost estimate
[10:07] for that at this point
we are requesting
[10:14] the Council to provide
direction on how to proceed.
[10:19] Either proceed with a change
order to the Donald m Bernice
[10:22] Watson Multi-Use pathway
improvements project
[10:25] or the installation of
additional pedestrian lights
[10:28] along the trail within
the identified dark
[10:30] areas in the amount of
$500,000 or designate
[10:34] another option that.
[10:42] Does anyone any questions,
comments or All right,
[10:46] everyone let's go.
[10:53] Councilmember
lewis, are i I mean,
[11:01] I don't even know
where to start.
[11:03] Five.
[11:04] That's that's a lot of
money for some light
[11:09] But we need them I I just.
[11:15] You know what mayor
goes on what else?
[11:17] I just got that
got us Take this.
[11:21] I got to swallow
this big pill already
[11:26] Council or mayor pro tem.
[11:28] Thank you.
[11:29] Thank you, Mayor.
[11:30] And sorry for being
late I was actually
[11:32] stuck in traffic in
Arcadia Nonetheless,
[11:35] I appreciate this analysis.
[11:37] And so on.
[11:38] I think the cost
of of putting a two
[11:44] foot foundation
in at $6,500 each
[11:50] is Gillis That's what you said.
[11:58] I'm certain that
there are many ways
[12:01] that we can go in and make
this cheaper if we what
[12:07] is the timeline on this thing?
[12:08] This is not on the critical path
in have week on any information
[12:14] in regards to this solar power
she just presented that what
[12:20] there was not much on
there the information
[12:26] that I provided
on solar bollards
[12:27] is that they were
not recommended
[12:28] by the by the south coast.
[12:32] Yes based on based on the
longevity and the battery life
[12:38] and the closeness of
placement, would it
[12:43] be possible for my
colleagues, perhaps to table.
[12:48] This in a way to perhaps
a week or two more?
[12:55] This is a full disclosure and
we have to do this in public
[13:00] Is that Brian and I, we actually
a with the manufacturers
[13:06] of these light ballers and
LEDs, they are currently
[13:11] providing some
kind of renderings,
[13:13] but I'm not sure what the status
is in the designs and so on.
[13:18] And perhaps we can have a
different point of view,
[13:24] especially the pricing wise,
having just one person telling
[13:27] me that this is going to be
$6,500 per each baller I find
[13:31] it to be very
inconceivable all $2.4
[13:34] million to dig two foot hole.
[13:40] I'm just not for it.
[13:41] I, I would appreciate it if we
can perhaps look for other bids,
[13:49] and so on.
[13:50] Just to have that
interoperability.
[13:53] So just to clarify the cost.
[13:55] I'm sorry the cost, the
estimate that was provided
[13:58] is a cost estimate.
[14:00] And it is not a quote from
a contract for at this time.
[14:04] This was for another estimating.
[14:07] I think that's
estimate is certainly
[14:10] exceeding what I think
our my colleagues
[14:17] I'm just speaking on my own.
[14:18] But i think this is
pretty extravagant price
[14:22] tag for something like this.
[14:24] And i did talk to some
of the manufacturers
[14:29] and they did a
walkthrough on it.
[14:31] With that said so in the
beginning of these these policy
[14:39] solar panels yes, it is true
that they need to go and be
[14:42] fully charge at eight hours.
[14:44] But later on they can't
or very susceptible
[14:49] And it's possible to
do it in 3, 2 4 hours.
[14:53] And so on So with that said, I
don't have enough information
[14:58] in having $6,000 $6,500 for
a two foot aisle, I'll take
[15:06] that job to take that.
[15:09] I think we need to go and table
it just a little bit longer
[15:13] or if if my colleagues
and so I sat
[15:17] in on a meeting with
Councilmember Kang
[15:19] that he set up with
Deco lighting last week
[15:22] They stated that it would
take them 24 to 48 hours
[15:26] to get this rendering
and some prices.
[15:29] I reached out to them
yesterday, and they responded.
[15:32] They were still looking into it.
[15:34] So we have nothing from them.
[15:36] So I have no idea
what they can or can't
[15:38] do as related to this project.
[15:42] If we stand here today and
obviously council can table it
[15:46] if we table it, that
this won't be a change
[15:49] order to what we're
doing right now,
[15:50] it will be a separate project.
[15:53] We will have to go out and go
through that process So yes,
[15:57] there there is some
timing to this,
[16:00] but that's not to say that we
can't do that to add to this,
[16:06] there is the potential since we
did request from Senator Rubio
[16:10] 300,000 for a lighting project.
[16:12] It looks promising.
[16:14] Obviously nothing has been
signed by the governor
[16:17] And so until that happens we
we very could get 300,000,
[16:23] but we just as easily could
not unless it's signed.
[16:26] But I just wanted to throw
that out there on the table.
[16:28] If there's nothing to do for
myself because like I'm with I'm
[16:34] Kevin Parker with
South Coast Lighting,
[16:36] we don't do any of
the installation,
[16:38] we just provide the lights.
[16:39] But we we did Photometric
reports on the bollards.
[16:44] And so when you
saw that rendering
[16:45] that was a bollard
that was basically
[16:47] five feet from the path and the
bus or bollards three feet tall
[16:53] and having been in
lighting for ten years,
[16:57] the lower the light is, the
less it's going to throw.
[17:00] And typically in a ball or
two, you also want to throw out
[17:03] So the taller lights
there's 14 footers
[17:06] are throwing side to side.
[17:08] The bollards are going to have
to throw directly out to even
[17:11] get to the path And even
then when you get to the edge
[17:15] of the path you're
looking I'll first of all,
[17:17] talking for candles It's about
2.1ft candles, which is no.
[17:22] So the example is full moon.
[17:25] So that's basically the light
you're getting at the last one
[17:28] third of the path outside
of 1/3 of the path
[17:31] where the bollards would be.
[17:34] So again the if you really
want to light the path,
[17:38] you want to go with the 14
foot and the other company
[17:42] that you're talking to
about with the bollards,
[17:44] I wouldn't just have
them do a rendering.
[17:47] I'd absolutely 100%
ask for a photo report
[17:50] because it uses specific
file called an IRS file
[17:54] And that's how
the light performs
[17:56] using different like different
types of light patterns.
[18:00] I'll put it that way Instead
saying type one, type 2 type 3.
[18:03] But there's different types of
light distribution patterns.
[18:07] And I 100% would ask for that.
[18:09] And tell them how far back you
want the bollard from the path
[18:13] because we did all that
for you know, for Stephanie
[18:17] and the bollards just
weren't cutting it
[18:19] even when we had it
five feet from the path
[18:21] to get it to light
the path, you have
[18:23] to have it right on the path.
[18:24] You have them all lined
up against the path.
[18:26] So that's all on
the solar bollards
[18:29] If I were about one
fourth, the light output
[18:34] as the grid tied bollards
now that's up That's
[18:39] all I have to say.
[18:40] Thank you.
[18:42] And I did remember
something else additionally,
[18:44] the deco lighting stated
that bollards would be spaced
[18:48] 6 to 8ft apart in this plan.
[18:51] It's ten feet.
[18:51] So it's I don't think
we're trying to add
[18:54] bollards potentially on this.
[18:57] Obviously, it's the cost
that's hanging up council
[18:59] and but we have no idea
what other manufacturers are
[19:02] would charge us per
light and installation.
[19:05] Yeah, I strongly suggest that
even for my company out there,
[19:11] I get at least three different
estimates or quotes are OEM
[19:16] and whatever.
[19:17] And so on I'm not going to go in
and heavily reliant on just one,
[19:21] especially with a price
tag of $2.4 million
[19:29] and some member friendly.
[19:31] Thank you.
[19:32] Sorry to me the lighting
is so much better
[19:40] with those 14 foot lights, if
that's if what we're seeing
[19:46] is reality.
[19:48] Yes I also look at
those being 100ft apart
[19:54] as opposed to 8 or 10ft apart.
[19:58] I'm just our liability There
is going to be that much
[20:02] greater to say nothing of.
[20:04] Even if we get a lower
cost on this it would
[20:09] be 500,000 versus say 50%.
[20:11] And we cut the bollard
estimate by 50%.
[20:17] That's still going to be
2 to 2 and a 1/2 times
[20:21] higher than the 14 foot lights.
[20:26] With those 14 foot lights
working of liable bility
[20:31] is there with that
And by that I mean
[20:36] are there going to be
can people climb up
[20:41] to the top of those poles and
rip something off of their
[20:45] that would be
something they can use,
[20:49] whether it's some sort of
metal or something like that.
[20:56] I just I want this thing to
last because goodness knows,
[21:02] we see a lot of these
things that they put them in
[21:06] and then they're
gone Yeah, correct.
[21:09] Well, I'm going to answer your
question based on several years
[21:12] ago, we well, I
just used Menards
[21:15] because you talked about earlier
at the intersection at all.
[21:18] And we put a light on one side.
[21:19] The reason the light
was on one side of time
[21:21] is that's where we had
electric, you know,
[21:22] so but that particular light
has been there the entire time
[21:25] and there's been no damage
to guarantee that somebody is
[21:28] not going to mess with stuff.
[21:30] But I will tell you that
we have some example
[21:32] out there where that particular
light has been has been,
[21:34] has been fine.
[21:35] So you know, and any will be
doing taking security measures
[21:42] on anything, the lighting
that was approved
[21:44] as part of the contract.
[21:45] And that's getting
built that's there's
[21:46] lots of security measures that
that's what that whole thing is
[21:49] change with lighting.
[21:49] So much in the last few years.
[21:51] But i don't think that's the
picture itself is is any more
[21:56] risk than anything we
currently have in the city
[21:58] For example, down
on Evergreen, we
[21:59] have pedestrian lights
along Evergreen that will
[22:02] hopefully those
will be back soon.
[22:04] But those we we had
a problem with those
[22:06] we're in the process
of fixing that.
[22:08] At one of your last
meetings we the pullback
[22:12] covers that or we could
take care of that problem.
[22:13] So I think that it i think we've
planned for that as best we
[22:19] can And then my final
question is, Brian you talked
[22:23] about the senators maybe
being able to help us out
[22:30] with something like this one.
[22:32] Are we going to know about that
The last comment I received
[22:40] from them was I'll
request go to the governor
[22:43] by the end of the month.
[22:44] So we should know at the
end of the month Geez,
[22:48] you think he'd have
something more important
[22:50] on his plate or 300,000?
[22:54] I think he has a lot of
important things on his plate.
[22:56] Right.
[22:56] I think they're
budgeting right now.
[22:58] I think my question
is just so I saw
[23:01] the light in the original
sample you gave us,
[23:04] and it looks really well lit.
[23:05] It's I'm going to guess it's
some form of air or something
[23:08] And then the next one is
like 100 octave darker.
[23:12] Is that a pretty
true The idea of what
[23:15] the difference will be between
the 14 foot and the bollards
[23:20] Can you repeat that again?
[23:21] So like, okay, let's go up
to the if you don't mind,
[23:23] I'm pulling up the report,
so let's go to the beginning
[23:25] where you're showing us the
sample of the Not that one.
[23:29] Next one.
[23:29] Okay So that looks amazingly
lit and very, very beautiful.
[23:34] So then we go down a couple more
slides to the bollard sample
[23:38] and it's completely darker.
[23:40] Is that a pretty.
[23:41] And so is that a pretty
accurate rendition
[23:43] of the light difference
that we would see having
[23:46] run the Photometric reports?
[23:48] Yeah, that's pretty
close It probably
[23:52] would be more gradual as it
gets to the edge of the path
[23:55] and it'll barely be it.
[23:57] The edge of the path, it'll
be like full moon, right?
[23:59] So picture the last
third of that path
[24:01] under a full moon light.
[24:02] That's how the edge would look.
[24:04] OK, I just want to make
sure like that that is.
[24:07] It's very much okay.
[24:08] And then my other question,
Stephanie, is if we like,
[24:11] let's just say I'm
just trying to make
[24:12] sure I have an understanding
of all of our options right?
[24:14] If we were let's just say we
were to go with the bollards,
[24:17] right?
[24:17] That's still doesn't we're
still getting those original six
[24:21] or whatever that are in the
regular plan that are 14.
[24:23] So that's probably not
considered in this picture
[24:25] that there will be some
sporadic 14 footers that
[24:28] are already in plan Correct.
[24:29] That they're not in this like
they're not in this area at all.
[24:33] Right.
[24:34] They're not in this area.
[24:35] I just like to have like a
full idea of what I'm looking
[24:37] at because, you know for
me, like I, you know,
[24:40] aesthetically we bollard
versus the tall ones
[24:43] I'm not super concerned.
[24:44] But I don't know the rest of
council has different ideas.
[24:47] And that's fine.
[24:48] I like the look
of that first one.
[24:50] Lighting wise.
[24:50] But that's just what
I'm being presented
[24:54] If you were to choose
to choose to do nothing,
[24:57] we use still get to
see in real life.
[25:00] What those 14 foot poles
are going to look like.
[25:03] Because they are
getting installed.
[25:04] They're going out of the project
around that Oak Bridge area
[25:09] And when is that part of the
project expected to be completed
[25:14] They're currently
working on the conduit
[25:17] and putting all of all
of the features to it.
[25:22] And we approved the it's the
submittal for the light for them
[25:28] to purchase the light.
[25:30] So it could be a few
weeks before we saw that.
[25:33] Yeah.
[25:34] You know the thing I would
add that is that, you know,
[25:36] they need to get solar, which
is probably September ish maybe,
[25:39] but they also, depending on
what they're being hooked to,
[25:42] we might need Edison
to, to power them
[25:45] up depending on the
those are going to get
[25:48] hooked up to existing power.
[25:50] So it's not part of a new over
brand new electrical October
[25:55] potentially OK.
[25:57] So my other question
is, if we were
[25:58] to pause this additional
lighting till we get a maybe
[26:02] some more details that
the rest of council
[26:04] might be wanting and be finding
out about our funding options
[26:08] is that going to significantly
change the plans if it were
[26:11] to be done subsequent
or after, sorry,
[26:13] October when we already
have a good idea
[26:15] of what the lighting is going to
be like I think there would be.
[26:21] I think that's why that cost
estimate changes a little bit as
[26:23] well, because there
would be there would
[26:25] be a change to doing it
later because the crews are
[26:30] out here now.
[26:31] They're doing.
[26:32] They're doing all
that led legwork now.
[26:34] And it would basically do
a be another mobilization
[26:38] for something.
[26:39] And they probably have to dig
up stuff that we just put down.
[26:42] Right.
[26:42] So so according to our
schedule, the paving
[26:46] of the rest of
the trail would be
[26:48] happening sometime next month.
[26:50] Of course, that that's
always subject to change.
[26:52] But that's kind of like
the way that it's going,
[26:56] not to say that the lights can't
go in afterward The conduit
[27:00] would be outside
of the trail anyway
[27:03] So what's a realistic or
just a conservative timeline
[27:06] that we have to make
a decision on this
[27:08] to where it doesn't affect the
natural progression of the trail
[27:11] improvements Probably
mid-September at the latest We
[27:23] have already asked
them for the cost
[27:25] for the cost estimate for it.
[27:27] So it, we would have
like a more solid
[27:30] number at that point anyway OK.
[27:33] If we wanted to, to have
them place the order
[27:37] does anybody else have
follow up questions?
[27:39] Councilmember Garcia
i'm still stuck on, on.
[27:43] I think our biggest
liability for pedestrians
[27:47] is at those
intersections where we're
[27:49] already going to be getting
that light in our current scope.
[27:54] Our trail isn't it?
[27:55] Does it look nice?
[27:56] Would it be nice?
[27:56] I think yes.
[27:58] But liability wise, I
mean, what's our liability
[28:00] now without it being lit?
[28:01] It's at your own risk, right?
[28:03] I mean, it's and it's
a multi use trail
[28:08] don't we have signs that kind
of help us out in any Yeah Yeah.
[28:17] And some light is better
than no light and mean,
[28:21] we're getting 60 new
poles intersection
[28:22] and under the bridge where
it tends to be dark now
[28:26] between vineyard and olive it is
super dark there in the evening.
[28:31] So it would be a great addition.
[28:33] However, can we get away by
splitting this like content
[28:37] for fill that sense of safety?
[28:41] I mean, you could light it
up like daylight but will
[28:43] you still feel so?
[28:43] I mean, I know how
you measure safety
[28:48] The 20 the 20 lights
were kind of evenly space
[28:53] throughout that length.
[28:55] If if you wanted to
just create light
[28:59] closer to the intersections and
not, not bridge all those gaps
[29:02] and just maybe do two lights in
addition to the intersections
[29:09] to just kind of be closer
to the intersection,
[29:11] that could be something
that you would want to do.
[29:12] It's not like you're
going to fully
[29:14] light the trail anyway with
these with the proposed work.
[29:19] My my second comment would be
now you give us a cost estimate.
[29:23] But with the crews
out there right now,
[29:25] they can't really give us an
actual quote for the labor.
[29:29] It just it's just been
a delay on like, okay,
[29:34] additional questions of
like, oh, well, what about,
[29:37] you know, conduit and lights.
[29:40] So they're working there
were working on it.
[29:42] They just couldn't get
1 2 us fast enough.
[29:45] So we ended up going with what
the what the cost for what's
[29:50] part of the contract was So what
is the council thinking I'm I
[29:59] know some people might want to
table it, but if we table it,
[30:01] we need to have
a plan of action.
[30:02] I thought okay.
[30:04] And a statement suggestion one.
[30:09] I think the process,
this whole process
[30:12] was a little bit
backwards We should have
[30:14] probably had this
discussion before anybody
[30:17] broke around on the trail.
[30:19] So that we wouldn't have to come
back and hold special meetings
[30:21] regarding how the
lighting should
[30:24] be how aesthetically
pleasing it should look.
[30:27] I think these conversations
as we're supposed to be,
[30:30] had before even an RFP went out
to any contractors for this job.
[30:39] I think that's my
first statement.
[30:42] And I truly believe that.
[30:45] I think fairly similar to the
way the Dorothy Park was where
[30:50] we were provided renderings,
the cost of option one,
[30:53] option two, option 3, and we
actually went with option four
[30:59] where we broke it up
in stages because we
[31:01] felt that that was
more in line with what
[31:05] the council was thinking.
[31:07] I think that that was it's very
important to start the process
[31:10] that way before any ground needs
to be broken on any projects
[31:15] that we do.
[31:16] I think these type
of discussions
[31:17] are very important because
it's holding right now.
[31:20] What we're doing is
holding the project back
[31:21] and it doesn't do
anybody any good at all.
[31:24] It doesn't do our residents
good because they're just
[31:26] going to be stuck
with construction
[31:27] while utilizing that trail It
doesn't do council any good.
[31:30] Well, hosting special meetings
regarding lighting on a trail
[31:34] that we already have funds for
that that's my personal opinion.
[31:39] I don't know what the rest
of the council thinks,
[31:41] but I think that's
just a smarter process
[31:43] to go forward with
next time we have
[31:44] any community development work.
[31:46] And when we do have
those presentations,
[31:49] I think renderings such
as you provided today
[31:52] would help provide us
a good, reasonable idea
[31:56] of what it would look like
before the project goes out
[32:00] to RFP.
[32:01] And any contractors that want
to bid on the RFP He knows
[32:05] that this is pretty
much how they need,
[32:07] what they need to do to
make it fulfill the council
[32:11] and the residents needs Second,
I think right now with the way
[32:17] the timeline is specifically
with the governor
[32:21] signing these funds over and
basically, we don't know we're
[32:28] going to get this right.
[32:29] And not he can wake up on the
wrong side of the bed tomorrow
[32:32] and said you know what, Nobody's
getting any money And if we
[32:37] approve this today
we'll be stuck with
[32:39] $300,000 out of our pocket.
[32:42] The other thing I'm
thinking is this.
[32:45] You know, I understand that the
public safety for the public
[32:50] and residents that utilize this
trail but from my knowledge,
[32:55] having a few friends that are
runners that know that they are
[32:58] running at nighttime or when
sunsets they are equipped
[33:04] with lights, reflectors
that they have on
[33:07] and lights to be able
to see the path for them
[33:10] to run The other concern is when
we light this path in this trail
[33:16] the residents that are
on this trail they get
[33:20] affected by the lights
that we put there,
[33:22] such as the Edison lights.
[33:23] Regardless if we say yes or no,
those Edison lights are going on
[33:27] and there are homes that are
along that trail that will be
[33:30] lit up, specifically
their backyards
[33:32] And they're a part of
a part of the homes.
[33:36] And when that happens speaking
to some of our public safety
[33:41] department deputies, are we
inviting unwanted individuals
[33:47] to this path when they're not
supposed to be on this path
[33:52] Are we inviting
unhoused individual
[33:55] those at certain times to
this path to utilize it
[34:00] as an encampment
site, a campsite?
[34:03] When we light up
this path I think
[34:06] that making this trail
aesthetically pleasing,
[34:11] it's great Probably other
ways to go about it.
[34:14] But I think with
the 40 foot lights
[34:17] adding the extra ones will
light this trail a way
[34:20] too much for my liking.
[34:21] And it becomes a public safety
issue after not a pedestrian
[34:25] safety but a public safety issue
where we're going to have a lot
[34:29] of unwanted individuals on that
path and our deputies are going
[34:32] to be utilized for these
issues for me right now,
[34:36] because we don't have the
$300,000 and we don't have any
[34:39] written documents from
our senators saying
[34:41] that we have these $300,000.
[34:43] I'm going to vote no.
[34:44] And just continue to do
what we have already done.
[34:47] Whatever the the work order
is I wouldn't change it.
[34:51] That's that's my opinion
right now Thank you If we were
[35:00] to table this, can we get enough
information back at the next
[35:06] council meeting in a week ?
[35:11] I give them a
deadline of last week,
[35:14] and they were
still working on it
[35:16] So I would hope that by next
week we would have a number.
[35:21] OK That's the only reason I
would be willing to do it,
[35:25] because i understand that
we're kind of up against a rock
[35:31] and a hard place.
[35:33] We all know that we
as council members
[35:39] should all be getting the
same information and a council
[35:43] manager form of government.
[35:44] That's what you do.
[35:45] And we can't all get
the same information
[35:48] if we're all going out and
talking with different people.
[35:51] So I would suggest
then that we go ahead
[35:55] and bring them in here to
the next council meeting.
[35:59] If we're going to
table it I agree.
[36:04] I think we should
bring everyone in.
[36:09] Councilmember Gordon my only
fear with tabling it and not
[36:14] doing anything will I just feel
like if we table that we already
[36:19] waited like two, three weeks.
[36:21] And the price went up
$200,000 in three weeks.
[36:25] My fear is if we wait a month,
it'll go up double And then
[36:29] on top of that, I agree.
[36:29] I don't think it needs
to be totally late
[36:31] Maybe have it at 80% or 70% and
instead of doing 20, we do 12.
[36:38] But I understand that
it's hard to vote
[36:40] on something when you don't know
if you have the funds for it.
[36:42] But at the same time, I wouldn't
like to have this conversation
[36:45] a year from now where we have
to say, put it out to bid,
[36:48] and then it costs us $1
million to ride the trail again
[36:52] It's just there's
so much uncertainty.
[36:54] I think if we table
that we definitely
[36:56] have to make a decision
before middle of September
[36:59] just so we don't
stop the project
[37:02] or don't add to the price tag.
[37:04] I think you can.
[37:05] Mayor Pro Tem yeah.
[37:07] With this hyper
inflation I think
[37:11] it's certainly ridiculous less.
[37:15] But within two weeks 200,000.
[37:17] I think that's quite
inconceivable poll for me
[37:25] One thing is I certainly want
more bids or more estimators
[37:30] and so on.
[37:31] I'm not going to heavily
rely on just One person.
[37:33] I'm not going to go
ahead and do that.
[37:35] I will never, ever
go and do that.
[37:38] And i want to know
more information
[37:41] before I'm able to go
and decide who to use.
[37:46] I'm not going to go and
just listen to one person.
[37:48] I'm going to go and listen
to at least three people
[37:50] to understand.
[37:51] And this i do not think that
$6,500 per or excavating to feed
[38:01] and stalling I don't
think that number it
[38:06] wouldn't add up to me For me.
[38:09] In addition I seriously
strongly suggest at that for us
[38:19] to do for every detail,
information and renderings
[38:24] and so on, when we ask
developers and architects
[38:30] and you guys know
this for the plans
[38:33] to for submittals you guys
would even critique in regards
[38:39] to the shades of the
paint wise that we're
[38:43] not able to go and get
these kind of renderings.
[38:46] We should be able to go
and get these renderings
[38:48] and so on because
you're expecting that
[38:50] for the developers and i would
expect us to go and do something
[38:56] that's even better
I totally agree
[39:00] with councilwoman Ann Finley.
[39:04] I really believe that we need
to go in and bring everyone in
[39:08] to have a good confess ation.
[39:11] So all of us will
have more information
[39:15] so we can go and decide, rather
than relying on one consultant.
[39:22] As far.
[39:23] Now So can we make a roll call
vote then for wanting to table.
[39:28] This and bring
everybody in and one.
[39:29] This has no, don't
change to change order.
[39:32] Councilmember Louis
would like to speak I
[39:41] I agree with every
you know, everything
[39:43] that everyone's saying
and I, I I totally think
[39:49] i I'm for bringing everyone in.
[39:52] But it doesn't make any
sense to pause when they
[39:58] already broke ground already.
[40:01] So and they're not and
basically, if we tell them
[40:05] if we table it then
work's going to I mean,
[40:09] the work is going to
still go on out there
[40:12] and, and it's critical that and
if they finish the 16 lights
[40:19] that we already permanently
have, then for them to come
[40:24] back and do the
rest of the lights
[40:27] if we decide if we if we
decide it is going to cost us
[40:31] extra money, because they're
going to have to come back So
[40:35] I suggest we just get it done.
[40:38] I mean, make a decision
and what we had I
[40:45] I'm totally agree
with cesar Mr. Garcia.
[40:50] And Mr. Calderon.
[40:52] I I think we should we i don't
think we need 20 extra lights
[40:56] because I think, 36 lights
on the path is I mean,
[41:01] that's a lot of lighting.
[41:03] I think we should cut
that 20 number in half
[41:07] and cut him in and
cut it in half.
[41:12] I mean 25 or 26 lights along
the path should be clear right?
[41:19] Well, I think we need
to give some direction
[41:21] And I don't think any of us
are lighting experts up here.
[41:25] So i do think we need
to come to a decision
[41:28] and decide what the staff can
bring to us that will allow us
[41:31] to make a decision So perhaps
maybe some kind of an expert
[41:35] opinion on a slight
scale back on the lights
[41:37] like okay, we've got
the 20 plus the 16,
[41:39] What would it look like if
we had a ten plus the 16
[41:41] or possibly a 12 plus The 16
are we are looking to hopefully
[41:45] get another opinion that we are
waiting for some information on.
[41:49] And then the alternate.
[41:51] We do have the final
recommendation for the full 20
[41:54] lights with the 14 foot,
as well as the Ballard
[41:58] with the $6,000 installation
cost Councilmember Finley,
[42:03] thank you.
[42:05] I am not a prognosticator
but I can tell you right now,
[42:09] in a year and a half or whenever
people are walking along there
[42:13] at night and they're going to
go you ripped up this bike path
[42:17] and you didn't put lights
in just I'm just telling you
[42:21] exactly what's going to happen.
[42:23] But that being said, I also
believe that lighting here
[42:30] and Larry will tell
you lighting keeps
[42:33] people away if they have
nefarious things on their minds.
[42:38] So I don't believe
it will attract
[42:42] people that shouldn't be there.
[42:43] I believe it will attract
people that want to walk
[42:46] up and down the bike path.
[42:47] And if there.
[42:48] I, I walk that bike
path almost every day.
[42:52] Most of the homes that are on
the north side of Royal Oaks
[42:54] Drive between where
the curbs are they
[42:57] almost all have some growth,
high growth in between
[43:02] their houses and the bike path.
[43:04] So I don't really think
it's going to affect them.
[43:06] And frankly if it does,
we'll just go ahead and plant
[43:09] something there for them.
[43:11] All of that being
said, I would like
[43:14] to make a motion that we bring
this back in a week with more
[43:19] options for all of us,
and that's you know,
[43:23] the different bollard people,
any of those where we can make
[43:30] actually So this is a change
order because we're already
[43:35] and existing project,
which is why you only
[43:38] have one person bidding this.
[43:41] And what's going and not
getting multiple bids.
[43:45] OK.
[43:46] If that's the
council's direction,
[43:48] then we should just go out, make
this its own separate project,
[43:52] go through the bid
process and receive
[43:54] the lowest responsible bidder.
[43:56] That's going to cost
us a lot more money.
[43:57] Brian i know, but
this is where we're
[43:59] at today and just refreshed.
[44:01] Got the council's
the way this went
[44:05] is when the award
of contract went
[44:07] for this trail and this job.
[44:09] Yeah.
[44:10] The discussion among council was
that we would look at a phase
[44:13] two for lighting the phase
two, which could be this is got
[44:17] bumped up to the capture rate.
[44:19] Now while we're in this project,
which is why we're here in this
[44:23] talking about it the
way we are right now
[44:24] instead of finishing the project
and going to phase two, much
[44:28] like we did for Dorothy Park.
[44:30] So it's a little bit
tricky just because we're
[44:34] in the middle of this project
and because of the change order,
[44:37] we only have that
one person bidding
[44:40] But again, if council's
direction is it we bring
[44:44] it back, Then we, we just make
it a whole separate project Can
[44:48] it still be a change order
if US contractors gives us
[44:51] a number them and
we're not, which I'm
[44:53] sorry if the current contractor
gives us their actual cost No,
[44:58] that just yes, that
would be a change order.
[44:59] But if we are looking for
several bids right then
[45:02] we need to go out for a
whole different project.
[45:04] But right now, we haven't
got the actual number
[45:06] from this contract.
[45:06] Correct So also correction.
[45:09] And you're absolutely right
The beginning before this.
[45:12] Bye.
[45:12] By track bike path
contract went out.
[45:17] We talked about lighting.
[45:20] So we did ask for lighting.
[45:22] I know the problem is, is the
lighting was split to phase two.
[45:27] Like brian said because
there was a timeline
[45:30] that the work needed
to start on this path.
[45:33] So lighting was asked
at the beginning
[45:36] but lighting was not provided.
[45:38] That's why we had split
it up to phase two.
[45:41] And we didn't know
there was the potential
[45:42] of getting 300,000 either.
[45:45] Yeah, we didn't know
that until Two weeks ago.
[45:48] If I, if I could just
add one more thing.
[45:51] So the trail is being
funded by a grant
[45:56] And that grant was
that's the grant request
[46:00] was submitted years ago.
[46:02] And as part of the
requests for the grant,
[46:06] there was safety
lighting included.
[46:07] And that's where that that
lighting at the intersections
[46:11] was included.
[46:11] And that's where the lighting
by the bridge was included.
[46:14] So there was always lighting
safety, lighting included
[46:17] as part of the
request for the funds
[46:21] as well as for the the actual
design of the trail project.
[46:26] And that's what was
awarded when the contract
[46:30] was brought to be awarded.
[46:32] That's when the conversation
of having even more lighting
[46:35] was brought up.
[46:37] And that's where i think there
must have been like a missed
[46:40] communication because
the council never
[46:41] just wanted safety lighting.
[46:43] So I think that's where
the disconnect is.
[46:45] This was years ago.
[46:46] Yeah, yeah.
[46:47] And i do recall, if I
may, a static right?
[46:53] It's not just to
safety part of it,
[46:56] the aesthetic It's like the
beautification If this is
[47:00] about safety, just go ahead,
make it like a stadium
[47:04] But we got to making sure
that this looks good.
[47:06] And I vividly i've been saying
this for how many years right?
[47:10] It's always about having it.
[47:12] Also, look good, too.
[47:14] And that has to be
part of the requirement
[47:16] going forward So
just so I understand,
[47:19] are you just very much
against the tall 14 foot?
[47:21] Because for me, I am not
okay, because I'm just
[47:24] trying to see where
everyone's out with that
[47:25] because because I like it.
[47:27] So it's not an issue to me.
[47:28] And so I'm trying to see how
do we get over this issue?
[47:30] Are we stuck on the bollard
lighting aesthetically
[47:33] and is that where we're getting
or like Mayor, if I may, yeah,
[47:38] I I'm seeking for more
information and the information
[47:42] I got today it's not sufficient
enough for me to go and make
[47:45] a decision and I'll give you
where I'm at I like the 44
[47:50] balls, one because they're
already the polls are going
[47:52] to be installed and I
don't want us to deal
[47:54] with poll and intersection
bollard, bollard pull bridge
[47:59] or bollard.
[48:00] So there should be conformity
So I'm for the 14 polls.
[48:04] I'm just one.
[48:05] Do we have we need to make
sure we have those funds right.
[48:08] That changes everything.
[48:09] If we can get
something if we table.
[48:12] This with enough time
for the contractor
[48:14] to not affect their critical
path and the funding
[48:17] and give us enough
time to give us
[48:19] an actual number for their
word, I guess I'm open to that.
[48:23] But just to counter, I know you
talked about, in the future,
[48:26] if people say, oh,
we didn't put lights,
[48:29] I've had a one call during this
whole workshop of someone who
[48:34] regularly goes to the
trail and there was saying,
[48:36] Are you really going to spend
that much money on lights?
[48:38] So there's also
that argument, right
[48:40] I think having the funds
securing the funds would make
[48:43] this process a lot
smoother and would allow us
[48:45] to make a decision much faster.
[48:47] But if we don't have the
funding, then I've already said,
[48:50] I agree with you.
[48:51] I think we need to
go in and search
[48:52] a little bit more
That $6,500 are
[48:54] going put to fund foundation.
[48:59] I absolutely.
[49:00] I can't swallow that.
[49:01] I'm sorry.
[49:02] That's not a bid price.
[49:04] It's just a cost estimate Just
just so i'm trying to because we
[49:11] have i know you said
we like concert,
[49:13] you know, conservatives
we have to mid September
[49:14] so or early September.
[49:16] I guess and we might know.
[49:18] But we're not for sure
about a possible funding
[49:21] grant by the end of
this month correct.
[49:22] Brian So and then so I feel
like we're looking for pieces
[49:28] of the puzzle, the
final information
[49:30] that you're going
to get on the cost,
[49:31] whether or not we're
going to get any funding,
[49:33] granting And we also kind of
need that before the September
[49:37] Now, if we're going to
bring in other contractors
[49:39] and other Ballard lightings
and changing the plan,
[49:41] I understand that's
going to be have
[49:42] something that will
probably have to be
[49:44] tabled and done as a phase two.
[49:46] So is everyone in agreement?
[49:48] Those are kind of that's kind of
where we're at So where would we
[49:52] move the follow up on this
that we would hopefully have
[49:56] the information Stephanie needs
the information from Senator
[50:02] in time to not interfere the
plans that are in motion Well,
[50:11] I think it's a good point
to make sure that we have
[50:13] a price from the contractor.
[50:14] So we know exactly
what that cost
[50:16] is And I'm speaking for what
We got a price on there.
[50:20] Maybe a separate issue with
bollards or whatever the case
[50:22] might be I think
the biggest impact,
[50:25] correct me if you
don't agree with it,
[50:27] you've been doing with
the contractor more
[50:28] than I have The issue is
keeping them on the site longer.
[50:34] We probably have some time.
[50:36] You know it's not best case, but
if we get i would say i'm hoping
[50:42] by next week, we would
have a contractor
[50:45] price But we may not know the
answer on the other $2,000.
[50:51] I just my perception
watching from the sidelines
[50:55] it it probably would be
nice to know both of those
[50:58] answers before.
[50:59] So if we know them
in a week, that's
[51:00] fine If we know I'm at the
first meeting September,
[51:03] the worst case is
the contractor is
[51:04] going to charge a
little bit because he
[51:06] needs to keep people on site.
[51:08] A lot of this is being done
with a submission director
[51:10] because there's an
electrical subcontractor
[51:14] that probably don't have a
lot of control over that.
[51:16] But it probably makes more
sense to just wait and make
[51:19] sure we have the price correct.
[51:21] And we would know
what the impact
[51:23] the price might go
up a little bit,
[51:24] but we'd at least
know what it is.
[51:25] Okay.
[51:26] And if we wait for those
two factors and then,
[51:29] Brian, if we were to be able to
accept just more for information
[51:33] from another Ballard Light
Ballard light expert,
[51:37] that information we know
would be having to be
[51:39] considered into a phase two.
[51:40] But at least we would have that
information so that we could
[51:43] make our final call
with the other two
[51:44] pieces that sound reasonable ?
[51:49] Yeah.
[51:49] Yes.
[51:50] OK.
[51:50] So we are So how do
I present this tie?
[51:54] I don't know So
you will just need
[51:59] to give direction and
ideally in this case,
[52:02] because I'm hearing a
lot of different thoughts
[52:04] is to have a motion.
[52:06] Appreciate it.
[52:07] Wouldn't be taking any action
unless you want to direct staff.
[52:11] The motion would be, you know,
I motion to direct staff X OK.
[52:15] I need a second and then
if somebody disagrees,
[52:18] they can do us a motion.
[52:20] OK One last question, Mayor.
[52:21] Yes?
[52:22] After we approve
submittals for the lights,
[52:24] what's the length
for procurement
[52:25] on each of those poles?
[52:28] I think it's a
couple of weeks to.
[52:31] So they're those.
[52:32] Yeah.
[52:33] OK.
[52:34] Okay.
[52:35] Motion to table.
[52:36] This to in order to secure
pricing from the contractor
[52:39] and any possible grant funding
that may or may not occur as
[52:44] well as gather additional
information for consideration
[52:49] for phase two, for additions
all contractors or manufacturers
[52:56] or And how soon do
you want it back?
[52:59] Next week.
[53:00] Would it be next
week or we would
[53:01] want it the first
week of September
[53:03] or first meeting of September.
[53:05] We will aim for next week,
but we won't know on the grant
[53:08] until the end of the
month So it would be
[53:10] the first meeting is September.
[53:11] So So at a future
council meeting.
[53:14] Okay.
[53:15] At a future council meeting as
soon as readily available So
[53:19] I'll move that motion.
[53:22] Okay Okay.
[53:23] Second Second.
[53:24] All in favor Any opposed?
[53:27] Do you need to do a roll call?
[53:29] OK Councilmember Calderon,
Councilmember Garcia Yes.
[53:34] Councilmember Trump Yeah.
[53:37] Councilmember Lewis.
[53:38] I Councilmember Finlay.
[53:40] Yes Mayor Pro Tem King.
[53:42] Yes.
[53:42] And Mayor Martin Del Campo?
[53:44] Yes Motion carries All right.
[53:48] And mayor for a
little clarifying it,
[53:57] is it possible that we can
find out, like and still
[54:00] have 20 of those lights
How much like that
[54:03] would be for like a total of
25, like addition or, you know,
[54:10] like a like additional ten
additional 12, a total of 25.
[54:15] But we want to let he's saying
16 plus 6 I think I mean,
[54:22] my opinion would
be that we need.
[54:24] That's not our level of
expertise to I don't know.
[54:26] I don't know what
to do about that.
[54:28] One I guess.
[54:31] But come back and see if
they're spaced out more.
[54:34] If we didn't do the
20 the lighting output
[54:37] would be different at
a different spacing.
[54:40] So it would be a different
analysis All right Okay.
[54:46] But just for clarification
and please correct me
[54:47] if I'm wrong we can always ask
the the contractor to say, what
[54:53] if we only had, you know,
X number of ballots,
[54:56] you know, but as to
the aesthetic portion,
[54:59] it will look different.
[55:00] And that would be a different
discussion potentially Okay.
[55:04] I don't know how
to word that one,
[55:05] but maybe if you can provide any
information about a slight scale
[55:08] down, what that might look like
aesthetically and cost wise,
[55:13] I will provide a cost breakdown
just like I did for this one.
[55:16] So you can reduce or
increase the number,
[55:18] and you'll get an
easy calculation.
[55:21] Would that be an
estimate ? the direction
[55:24] is to get the actual cost
proposal from the contractor.
[55:28] So that's what we
will bring back Okay.
[55:30] Okay.
[55:30] I'm going to do this part
real quick to wrap this up.
[55:32] Officially, if you wish to
speak on any items listed
[55:35] on the special
meeting agenda, you
[55:36] may do so at this time
Each member of the public
[55:38] have a total of three
minutes to speak.
[55:39] The council cannot
discuss or take actions
[55:41] on the matters on the agenda.
[55:42] For this meeting, we
will call on members
[55:43] of the public participating
in person first, followed
[55:46] by everyone participants If
you're participating on a Zoom,
[55:48] please raise your digital hand.
[55:49] Now or press nine on the
phone if you wish to speak.
[55:51] Do we have any comments?
[55:54] I'm making a final call We
do have a Zoom Attendee OK
[55:57] This process is now I'm going
to make a final call for them
[56:01] to raise their hand and nothing.
[56:06] And do we have any members of
the public that wish to speak?
[56:09] I am going to adjourn the
meeting Thank you Thank
[56:13] you for attending on Zoom.
[56:14] Whoever it is and I did
walk into the court.
[56:57] I was just of i don't know, our
so we are far more private Well,
[57:12] that's my yeah you entire you're
in your i mean, I know Yeah.
[57:19] Yeah, I can I could ask you and
I can ask him for a vote walking
[57:24] the power from a power pole.
[57:27] Right.
[57:28] No.
[57:29] Yeah exactly.
[57:31] Yeah, yeah, yeah Right.
[57:34] And so we have one on one.
[57:38] I'm not right.
[57:40] You're limited
with your with you.
[57:44] So look at how far
you bring rights.
[57:46] That's pretty expensive.
[57:48] I think if are on
the national parks.
[57:53] It's not really I
mean, I could ask.
[57:57] All right.
[57:57] I just to get a
ballpark i know they
[58:00] want an exact number or this
is the first thing I do.
[58:04] That exact number is.