[This transcript was generated automatically from audio using AI and hasn't been reviewed by a person -- it can contain mistakes, including plausible-sounding sentences that were never actually said. Treat it as a starting point, not a verbatim record.]

[4:00] I guess I got to do this over here, my spouse and your seat.
[4:15] I got to do this over here.
[4:17] Yeah, it's like it's over here.
[4:20] It's the gravel.
[4:22] I'd like to call to order the regular meeting of the Dublin Planning Commission.
[4:41] And if you would like to, I'm going to call it in.
[4:44] I'm Don Benson, the Vice Chair of the Commission tonight, and we are waiting for our chair.
[4:51] But please join me in the plight of allegiance.
[4:57] I pledge allegiance to the five of the United States of America.
[5:02] And to all of the allegiance, one nation under the title, the liberty and justice hall.
[5:09] Thank you.
[5:12] All right, oral communications.
[5:15] Any oral communications?
[5:17] No.
[5:18] Okay. We're on the public comment. So this is the time where the public is permitted to address the planning commission on non agenda items.
[5:27] Is there anybody that wishes to speak this evening?
[5:31] Okay, great.
[5:33] So with the consent calendar, we have one item 3.1.
[5:38] Do I hear a motion?
[5:43] I'll motion to approve the minutes as stated from the January 20th to 2020 planning commission meeting.
[5:51] Okay.
[5:53] Second.
[5:54] Okay, great.
[5:55] So it's been moved in second.
[5:57] Any revisions or any changes?
[6:00] No.
[6:01] Okay.
[6:02] I'd like to call for a vote.
[6:04] All in favor?
[6:05] All right.
[6:08] And I guess Janine's not here.
[6:11] So and Steve.
[6:13] But tonight we have who is filling in for us tonight?
[6:18] Is it Kathy?
[6:20] Kathy is.
[6:21] Okay, so Kathy is filling in for Steve.
[6:24] Right.
[6:25] So thank you, Kathy.
[6:26] And at this time, any written communications?
[6:29] None.
[6:30] And the public hearing.
[6:32] So tonight we'll have a public hearing.
[6:34] And five point one, Tossahara.
[6:36] Willed alignment project.
[6:39] Good evening, planning commissioners.
[6:41] I'd like to introduce Irwin Sching from the Public Works Department, who will provide staff's presentation.
[7:04] Thank you.
[7:22] Good evening.
[7:24] My name is Irwin Sching.
[7:25] I'm with the Public Works Department.
[7:28] I'm here to present to you the Tossahara Road alignment project.
[7:34] Before I begin my presentation, I would like to provide a brief outline of my presentation.
[7:40] And what we will be talking about tonight.
[7:45] I will be talking about the project overview.
[7:49] Some details of design.
[7:51] The project background.
[7:53] And the steps that we took that got us here.
[7:56] And why are we here?
[8:03] The exhibit shown shows the vicinity of the project.
[8:07] Where the project is on Tossahara Road.
[8:10] And the surrounding areas.
[8:13] The project limits are north, south, south, south.
[8:19] And the city limit to the north.
[8:22] As depicted by the dashed green line.
[8:27] This exhibit gives a closer look of the existing and proposed road improvements within the project limits.
[8:41] The uncollered segments within Tossahara Road, within the project limits, are the undeveloped, are the already developed segments of Tossahara Road.
[8:55] Two segments of Tossahara Road are being proposed to be improved.
[9:04] And that is segment segments one in the southern element of the project and segment two in the northern element.
[9:16] Now a little bit about segment one.
[9:21] The segment one is currently a tooling roadway.
[9:25] And it is being proposed to be widened to four lanes with the project.
[9:31] It is not clearly seen in this exhibit.
[9:34] But I would like to explain a little bit about segment one that the improvements on the east side, which is the bottom line of segment one.
[9:46] As already been constructed with curb gutter and sidewalk.
[9:51] Except for a small sliver near the northern limit of segment one, which is the front edge of the one way.
[10:02] One main property will require curb gutter and sidewalk.
[10:11] Otherwise, majority of the widening for this roadway would happen on the west side.
[10:20] segment two is within the northern element and segment of Tossahara Road.
[10:27] segment two is also currently as it exists a two lane roadway.
[10:33] And it is proposed to be widened to four lanes.
[10:39] I would like to point out the yellow highlighted area just above segment two.
[10:47] This area is the current alignment of Tossahara Road as we know it.
[10:57] And this is the area where the revised alignment is being proposed into segment two.
[11:08] the road section for segment one is shown on top of the exhibit.
[11:20] As I mentioned earlier, the east side of segment one already exists with curb gutter and sidewalk.
[11:31] The majority of the development and improvements will occur on the west side.
[11:37] segment one, as you see here, will be a four lane roadway.
[11:41] It will have a 16-foot center median, eight-foot bike lanes with buffers, six foot sidewalks on both sides of the street.
[11:56] segment two at the bottom of the exhibit is also a four lane roadway.
[12:02] it will also have eight-foot buffered bike lanes on both sides.
[12:07] But it will not have a concrete sidewalk.
[12:11] In return, what it has is a ten-foot-class one bikeway on the west side, which is consistent with the bike and pedestrian master plan of the city of Dublin.
[12:26] you will notice that on the east side there is no proposed sidewalk.
[12:35] it is not proposed and was not designed since there are currently no developments north of the city limit into the county of Contra Costa.
[12:50] now a little bit about the project bike run.
[12:54] the county in 2010 reached out to the city with a proposal to revise the alignment on Tassahara road.
[13:03] this effort was for a multi-drist sectional project to reliant Tassahara road in the city of Dublin and Camino Tassahara in the county of Contra Costa.
[13:16] in 2015 the city and the county initiated a traffic analysis to study the operational requirements of Tassahara road.
[13:28] to determine if a six-lane roadway would still be required.
[13:33] the traffic analysis analyzed the level of service, traffic diversion, the travel times of a four-lane and six-lane roadway.
[13:45] and the conclusion of the analysis is that the level of service, traffic diversion, and travel times for the two scenarios are similar.
[14:00] and concluded that a six-lane roadway will not significantly benefit motorists.
[14:11] in 2016 the city council approved the addition of Tassahara road alignment realignment and widening project into the five-year CIP.
[14:26] and this project has four lanes instead of six lanes.
[14:40] with the long standing history of Tassahara road, please allow me to briefly provide the environmental studies that had been done in the past that included Tassahara road.
[14:52] on May 10, 1993 the city council certified an EIR for the Eastern...
[15:00] Building specific plan. We toss a higher road at six lanes. In March of 2004, the city council adopted
[15:11] an initial study and mitigated negative declaration for the precise alignment of toss a higher road
[15:19] for ultimate widening to six lanes. For the current project, which proposes to reduce with the initial
[15:35] study that was performed just this year, January 2020. The term that there are no new or more
[15:45] severe significant impact, then what was identified in the previous 1999 and 2004 environmental studies?
[16:04] The second component of this project is a proposed amendment to the General Plan and Eastern
[16:08] government specific plan. There will be no changes to land uses and the project will also
[16:18] have no change in intensity of the development. What would change is the number of lanes. Currently,
[16:27] toss a higher road is identified as a six lane or a tieral roadway in the General Plan and Eastern
[16:34] Dublin specific plan. It is proposed to be reduced from six to four lanes between North
[16:40] Dublin ranch drive to the city northern city limit. As a result, minor text updates to the General Plan
[16:50] and Eastern Dublin specific plan is being proposed. Similarly, I would like to provide
[17:10] a brief history of the right away for toss a higher road. In 1999, a precise alignment
[17:19] ordinance established the right away lines on toss a higher road from the 583 way to the northern
[17:26] city limit. In 2012, after coordinating with the county, a conceptual
[17:56] alignment for toss a higher road was approved by the Planning Commission with a large project,
[18:03] now called toss a higher hills. In this year, with a current project in the proposed four lane,
[18:16] toss a higher road. The existing precise alignment will already, the proposed four lane project
[18:30] will already fall within the established right away lines adopted in 1999 and 2004.
[18:38] Except for the segment where proposed revised alignment is being proposed and that's
[18:48] north of Palacay's drive. Which brings me to the third component of the project, which is to
[19:03] the process of establishing the right away lines for the proposed for the revised
[19:08] alignment on toss a higher road. The process of establishing the right away lines is outlined
[19:18] in chapter 7.68 of the Dublin municipal code. This is the similar process that
[19:27] not so long ago, the Dublin Boulevard extension project to deliver more had to follow.
[19:38] And that process would require the Planning Commission must hold a public hearing
[19:43] and make a recommendation to the city council to consider adopting a resolution of intention
[19:49] to establish the right away. City council will then adopt a resolution of intention
[19:59] and then hold a public hearing no less than 14 days or greater than 35 days after the adoption
[20:06] of the resolution of intention and consider approving the right away by audience.
[20:11] Beginning in October 2019, staff had reached out to the property owners that will be
[20:25] affected by the proposed projects and they were invited to come in and view the preliminary
[20:31] improvement plans and to get familiar with the project. It allowed the city to provide some good news
[20:39] to the property owners adjacent to segment 1. As I mentioned earlier in my presentation,
[20:46] the original precise alignment for toss a higher road involves a six-lane roadway
[20:53] but with the proposed reduction to four lanes that would mean that the impacts on their poverty
[21:00] would be much less. Staff would like to recommend to the Planning Commission to conduct
[21:13] the public hearing to deliberate and take the following actions. Adopt a resolution
[21:18] recommending that the city council adopt a resolution amending the general plan and eastern
[21:24] building specific plan for the toss a higher road alignment project and to adopt a resolution
[21:31] recommending to the city council consider an initial study sequel addendum and adopt a resolution
[21:38] of intention to establish the precise alignment for the future right away lines for toss a higher road
[21:45] between palestades drive and the city limit. With that, I'm here to answer any questions.
[21:54] Thank you. Questions? Any comments? Regarding the center median, is that a landscape median then
[22:04] or as proposed to match the rest of Tussahara all the way to Dublin Boulevard?
[22:11] Yes, that is correct. It'll be a landscape median, median with irrigation. Thank you.
[22:21] Any other questions? I mean thank you for the detailed report. I have a few questions
[22:27] starting with the first one. Do you have any sketch that shows the existing and proposed for each of the
[22:35] segment one and segment two? I have it in my slide at the moment, but I do have a sketch available.
[22:52] The figure I'm referring to is also in the staff report, figure number two and that shows
[23:00] the proposed improvements on side of one and also the proposed revised alignment for side of the two.
[23:07] But there is no existing and proposed side-by-side or top and bottom to compare.
[23:14] I'm trying to determine that the curve took our remains the same and all we are doing is
[23:20] restripping or what changes we are making from the existing to proposed.
[23:24] So for segment one, I mentioned earlier in my presentation, the east side is ready built to
[23:38] the proposed for lane right away. The center median is not not built.
[23:45] And by expanding the roadway to accommodate for the eight foot buffer bike lane, the lanes may shift.
[23:56] However, because we have to keep the crown of the street, it will not be as easy as restriping,
[24:06] the existing condition. There may be conditions where we need to do a grind and overlay
[24:13] so that we can meet the crossroads required for the roadway. And then from there, once the
[24:19] center line on the median has been established, then follows the southbound lanes with two travel lanes
[24:28] and a vitally and then also the curbing gutter. And then segment two, there is
[24:34] how does the curve took our change there other than the alignment? The realignment will
[24:43] make changes. I mean, make major changes, but how about the curve took our number of lanes?
[24:51] Currently, as it exists, that segment of tassar road is a tooling roadway and it's a tooling
[25:01] undivided roadway. With the current project, we are proposing to widen that street.
[25:08] Of course, first to realign it and then widen that street and it will become a divided in four lane roadway.
[25:16] So following the center line moving outward and both the west side of the roadway is how you determine
[25:26] where the actual curbing gutter lines will fall. And then last question about the realignment.
[25:36] Is it necessary because of safety or why do we need to realignment segment two?
[25:43] That is correct. In 2010, the county cost to approach the city mainly for that reason.
[25:51] They proposed a realignment on tassar road, so we remove the S curve that runs from the city of Dublin,
[25:59] from Palisade's Drive County. By removing that S curve, it is anticipated that it would improve traffic safety in that segment.
[26:11] Thank you. When you speak to the, you brought a country cost county. Is there a coordinated effort
[26:21] that they are participating in then to take this to wind the mirror then? Or is it strictly just they
[26:28] all made a country cost to Dublin's side of tassar. That's been impacted here.
[26:34] So segment two, as I've shown in my slides, is only a segment of a larger multi jurisdiction project.
[26:45] As I mentioned earlier that the improvements on tassar road on an orderly segment includes improvements
[26:53] also in the county of country cost. And that effort is carefully coordinated with the city.
[27:03] And what's the project is approved. The county will actually take the lead in constructing the project
[27:14] for both the county and the city side.
[27:24] So are they doing four lanes as well through to wind a mirror?
[27:29] Yes, that is correct.
[27:33] Can you speak to, because the oddity of segment one was that you have various jurisdictions
[27:46] are the federal government, the horse ranch there. And the, I think there was some other,
[27:54] oh, the park district, I think the East Bay Park. So I'm wondering, can you speak to the coordination
[28:00] and then the cooperation of those agencies?
[28:06] So at this, at this point in time, we are still in the early stages of the coordination.
[28:13] But what staff had done is that we've reached out to the property owners on the west side of segment one,
[28:20] which includes the different agencies such as the camp parks and the East Bay Regional Park District,
[28:28] who owns some of the parcels to the west of segment one. And that, from that point on,
[28:35] it's still too early, but the process is moving. They have been made aware of the proposed project
[28:43] that Dublin is trying to do. And they have shown some interest in the moving, letting it move forward.
[28:51] So that's a good thing.
[28:53] In terms of the schedule and timing, unfortunately, it's still too early to tell.
[29:01] So in essence, the, especially the Equestrian Center with the RER, they've seen the plans and they're happy
[29:07] with having it four lanes versus six lanes.
[29:11] Yes, I have spoken to the family, yes, I'm sorry, who's famed to Adams, Adams, Pat Adams,
[29:18] the RER, the Equestrian Center, the Equestrian Center.
[29:27] I don't believe the Equestrian Center would be affected by this project.
[29:32] Okay.
[29:39] Good evening, Pliney Commission. I'm Andy Russell, the Public Works Director. As you mentioned, the project will be
[29:44] reducing the number of lanes from four to six. So in 2004, the alignment was adopted,
[29:50] and it was affecting the RER Ranch facility. And now, of course, this modified project, which reduces
[29:57] the lanes, effectively reduces the...
[30:00] That with, by 24 feet, you know, 2-12 foot lanes. And so, for the most part, it's beneficial to those properties along the way, you know, that they don't need that extra lane and they'll just save that much land. And the city, of course, will not have to go acquire that property because in, you know, in the past it was seen as most of those properties, the development potential was somewhat limited.
[30:22] And so, chances were that this city would have to go acquire the property versus a project occurring in, in dedication of the property occurring at a subdivision level.
[30:31] So, well, I know they have traffic in there, too, with the horses that they run. So, there's a lot of rakes that go in and out of there all the time, so it's nice for them.
[30:42] What's your question on funding? I understand this is still in very early stage. Do we have an indication of the project cost and any funding secured or that's DVD?
[30:53] The project is a capital improvement program project, which has a funding plan associated with their budget. So, the, the capital improvement plan has two projects, one for the segment one and one for segment two.
[31:08] Of the top on my head, I know that the segment one, which goes to the county, we've got about $12.5 million as a project. Most of the funding we believe will be available. A lot of the funding is coming from impact fee programs. So, the Eastern Dublin development and Eastern Dublin, pace impact fees, one of those is the Eastern Dublin traffic impact fee.
[31:32] There's also funds from the, it's called the Tri-Valley Development Commission, I believe, TVTC, where projects in Contra Costa County are paying impact fees that go into a pot and then gets dispersed. And this is a project in the transportation expenditure plan for the TVTC. So, one of the reasons we had to coordinate with Contra Costa County, but we also coordinated with the cities of Danville.
[32:00] And San Ramon with respect to looking at what happens to Camino Tassahara, should we, you know, alter Tassahara? So, yes, there's funding also, other funding sources, gas tax, SB1 funds, we use a myriad of whatever we can get to put the project together and hopefully get it out there, bid and build.
[32:31] Thank you. We'll conduct the, excuse me, the public hearing, do we have any speakers listed?
[32:41] Okay, no one here that wishes to speak. We have the property owner here that would like to say a few words.
[32:47] We will need you to fill out a speaker card. You can go ahead and do that. Is it okay? We'll do it after the after you speak. Just make sure it gets turned into our clerk.
[33:02] Good evening. Good evening. Good evening. My name is Inder Gichada. I'm the civil engineer and I'm working with the owners of the property and I met with the city engineers during the meeting in October last year.
[33:27] And I was told initially the owners when they purchased the property with the six lane project, which was supposed to come that they will get some land with that alignment.
[33:41] But by reducing it to four lanes now, they are losing a big chunk of their property. So, which we requested the plans for the six lanes.
[33:52] And the city has indicated they don't have them and we never got anything from that project. For the foreign project, we did see it.
[34:01] And being civil engineer, I see the major issue which this property is going to face is because they're raising the elevation of the alignment as well.
[34:12] And that's going to increase their access, not increase. But they're going to obstruct that access for that property.
[34:24] They are proposing a sliver access to the property. I don't consider that it would be safe at night time. It'll be dark. It's a safe to issue.
[34:35] Another thing is that when we had the big rain, but three, four years ago, their property got flooded.
[34:44] And with this alignment, the more water will be coming into the property. That will be more safe on safe issue for them.
[34:54] So that's why I don't think that they don't think that they are in a support for this project. But that's the big concern of the safety of their own.
[35:05] Plus, we discussed this with the engineering department as well. And then how the water issue will be handled, that's something which city can work on.
[35:17] But we haven't received anything yet. I was supposed to get some information, but I wasn't able to get that over to them either.
[35:25] But there's an issue with that. And then that, but the change of the design that can be handled, but it's right now the way it is proposed, it causes safety issue for that property.
[35:40] Yes, they really need to raise their elevation of their own property. And in order to do that, we're still working with the fishing game department or fishing game to get some approvals.
[35:51] And what's that, it's got done, then we're probably working with the city engineering department. Thank you.
[35:59] Just for clarity, can you speak to where your, I was confused as to where exactly your property is.
[36:06] That's the one on the segment two segment two on the west or east, west side of the alignment.
[36:14] That's where the yellow marking was, the property right next to it.
[36:18] Okay. I mean, that's what I was imagining, that wasn't wanting to confirm. Sorry, no worries.
[36:24] And just the clarify of step, this, this is the only property that's affected by this correct.
[36:30] That's what's with the portion this relined correct. There's a there existing 2004 plan was going to affect the property.
[36:38] And this is the same property it's right at the northern border.
[36:41] The other projects that would have been effective have been developed with this plan in intent.
[36:46] So Tossara Hills, which is the former molar ranch project was developed with this actually both alignments in mind.
[36:55] And then the project across the street, which is a Tim Lewis community.
[36:59] I can't remember the name of it off the top of my head, but those are the last two that would have been affected in this segment.
[37:07] Can you speak to the east side of segment two, is that then a huge retaining wall that's going to need to be built there, is that because there's a down slope there correct that.
[37:19] Let me see if I can pull that over all of you up, oops.
[37:23] Which I guess would be the reason why there's no probably sidewalk there a bit.
[37:28] Yeah, let's, let me go back. Sorry.
[37:32] I'll look at this over you. So in the segment two, just note that north is pointing this way.
[37:37] So the east side is actually the uphill side on the Tossara Hills project. This is the Tossara Hills side.
[37:42] And then the the creek, Tossara Creek runs down here and joins here.
[37:48] This is the things properties is up in this area.
[37:51] And so this side would be the uphill side and then on the other side would be more of a downhill.
[37:56] Right now we're anticipating a two to one slope with the Muller Ranch project, the easements were dedicated that would allow for that.
[38:06] But it could very well be a combination of slope and retaining walls.
[38:10] It'll just depend when the final design is is actually developed what's more cost effective, what's better from a design standpoint.
[38:17] So that's, it's still to be determined.
[38:21] Because obviously to address their concern, you'd need to pull the whole road eastward.
[38:26] Is that corrector?
[38:28] Pull it.
[38:29] See, I mean, just to address their concern, you would need to obviously pull the road away from their property.
[38:35] I would think, correct.
[38:36] I'm, I'm trying to imagine what mitigation could be done to satisfy them.
[38:40] Well, I think their engineers correct the, the horizontal alignment, which is going to be sort of straightened out that this S curve that exists now will become
[38:50] straight.
[38:52] That takes care of one issue, again, horizontally.
[38:55] Vertically, there's going to be some changes in elevations throughout the alignment as well, which will affect how that interface occurs with their property.
[39:05] And so from that standpoint, there is going to be some great differential on their side as well.
[39:11] I think what we would point out is that the existing precise alignment, which is curved and curves over.
[39:19] To, to the west, you know, is already affecting their property.
[39:23] That, that ordinance was adopted in 2004.
[39:25] And so the, the revised alignment still affects their property, but, you know, in the grand scheme of things, it's, you know, it's probably a 61 half dozen of another as far as the effect on the same property.
[39:37] Again, until the final design is, is worked on, we won't know exactly, but all those issues that were brought to light.
[39:45] The hydraulic study will be done with the design.
[39:48] Obviously, we will do meeting right away acquisition.
[39:51] So we will be needing to talk to these property owners.
[39:54] We have regulatory agency permit activities that will have to start and occur for that development for the construction to happen.
[40:01] So all those are still to be worked on, again, in conjunction with contra-cost accounting.
[40:06] Access, I'm sorry, is there access to their property off of that road that we, that's being upgraded?
[40:12] Currently, they have a driveway.
[40:14] Right at the, basically, right at the city limit line is where their access is.
[40:18] And with the, with the preliminary design, because of some, some sort of, I would say,
[40:26] regulatory agency areas, you know, some habitat areas and the grades that we're talking about.
[40:31] The preliminary design is actually to potentially take their driveway into contra-cost accounting in order to make it more feasible to, to build, you know, more,
[40:42] and to provide them a better access.
[40:44] So that, that's yet to be determined, again, still, but we have reached out to both,
[40:48] our, our Alme County Fire Department as well as the Sanamone Fire District to,
[40:54] make sure that that's okay, because from, you know, we wanted to make sure from our responder standpoint,
[40:58] we don't have any issues with someone who lives in Dublin, having their driveway be in contra-cost accounting.
[41:04] So, you need situations, but at times, you know, we need to think of, think of those alternatives.
[41:10] And then just, uh, lastly, for, um, because you're acquiring land on the east side of segment two,
[41:16] but then you've got surplus, it appears on segment, on the west side of segment two, the yellow portion, what happens to that then.
[41:25] So, so the, the, the precise alignment, the right away gets established, but it doesn't mean we've acquired it yet.
[41:31] So, all that, although that yellow line shows what has been adopted, the city never proceeded to acquire that property.
[41:38] So, right now, that is property owned by those respective property owners.
[41:42] Um, they, there's a, in the ordinance, basically, what it does is it effectively prohibits them from building structures in those areas.
[41:50] Um, and again, that's really not an issue, because the general plan and zoning would require them to, to, um,
[41:56] dedicate land for Tossahart, where they to develop. So, from that standpoint, it's, it's, it's limited risk.
[42:02] But, um, those lines will go away. When this ordinance gets adopted, those yellow lines that are outside the, the boundary, um, on the, on the west side will go away.
[42:12] Okay, so the yellow line isn't the current, uh, roadway then.
[42:16] The road, follow that alignment, but it remember it's a two-lane road in that segment.
[42:20] So, the six-lane width is there.
[42:23] What is the six-lane width of 120 feet or something like that?
[42:27] And, and so the new alignment would be in that blue, the lighter blue shaded area.
[42:32] Okay. So, it's here to be Tarrat.
[42:34] Okay.
[42:35] All right. Thank you.
[42:36] Okay.
[42:37] Okay.
[42:38] Any other questions? Okay. Thank you very much. Any other speakers?
[42:41] And please do fill off speakers, so for us, thank you.
[42:46] No, no, no.
[42:47] But that will close up public hearing.
[42:49] Yeah, and start.
[42:50] Oh.
[42:51] Yes.
[42:52] All right.
[42:53] When is, uh, Anil Kumar?
[42:56] We, we, we will need you to fill out speaker cards, please.
[42:59] Oh, sure.
[43:00] It's speakers.
[43:01] So, they're over here by the table.
[43:03] You'll need to get up and fill that out now and then turn it in so that we have it before this is over.
[43:18] Okay. Go ahead.
[43:19] Okay.
[43:20] And state your name if you can, please.
[43:21] My name is Anil Kumar.
[43:23] And I'm right. My residence is the right exit segment to improvements.
[43:28] Where the, I have only question with the city of Dublin.
[43:32] I'm out of city of Dublin area.
[43:36] I'm living there from the last three, four years in the traffic on that area is.
[43:41] It's very, very high.
[43:44] This plan was adopted year 2004.
[43:47] Someone think like this would be a six lanes.
[43:50] And now the city is going to drop with the four lanes.
[43:53] What is the reason for that?
[43:55] Is that reason I just want to know from the in near point.
[43:59] What is the reason point like why they are dropping like a little matter.
[44:03] What's where the cost is going to impact.
[44:05] We are thinking like this from the safety point of view.
[44:09] Safety is more important than anything else.
[44:12] And secondly, I do have a, like a little,
[44:15] I'm going to point on the segment to where the Indian city is going to.
[44:19] The blue dotted line is going to expand on the east side of the property.
[44:24] Where the water line is going to be.
[44:27] And the retaining wall is more expensive than to move to the left side of the property.
[44:33] So I think the in the near is not.
[44:35] They are not looking.
[44:36] There is a below that property.
[44:38] There is the water line is going in.
[44:40] It's very hard to remove the water line.
[44:43] And then going to the other side of the property.
[44:47] So we have a question to the city of Dublin.
[44:51] If the proposed was dear to the four was the six lane.
[44:54] Have to keep the six lanes.
[44:56] And I'm not saying like.
[45:00] Now, we have to go right or left, but if they are thinking like the cause-wise, there is more
[45:06] cost involved to remove the water line than anything else. And plus that it is a trading
[45:10] valve because Tassara hills is very, the level of the hill is very high, is the cost
[45:17] is more there is from the city point. So, that's what it, thank you.
[45:23] Okay, thank you very much. And if you could please fill out that speaker. You filled it up for
[45:30] I'm okay, can you have it turned it over to the clerk, thank you very much. Do we have
[45:35] any other speakers from the public that was to speak at this time? Okay, we will close
[45:42] the public hearing and move to deliberations. Any other questions that anyone has for staff?
[45:48] Okay, so, as far as the discussions go, anything else that we need to add or is anyone
[46:00] willing to make a motion?
[46:05] We'll put the motion up to be ready.
[46:11] Here.
[46:13] Here we go.
[46:17] This will make the recommendation here. So, I recommend, do I need to read the whole thing?
[46:23] Christy here.
[46:25] No, you can simply make a motion to just ask state of the book. Okay.
[46:30] So, I make a recommendation to adopt as indicated in A and B as presented.
[46:40] That's it.
[46:42] I have about a second.
[46:44] I'll second.
[46:45] Okay. All those in favor?
[46:47] All right.
[46:48] Any opposed?
[46:49] Passes unanimously.
[46:52] Okay.
[46:54] Okay, so we'll go ahead and move on to item 5.2, which is the zoning ordinance amendment to chapter 88.
[47:23] Eight point eight four sign regulations.
[47:27] I'd like to introduce Michael Cass, who's our principal planner, and we'll provide staff's recommendation or staff's presentation tonight.
[47:35] Welcome, Michael.
[47:53] Relations, specifically within that chapter, offsite advertising signs are defined as any sign which advertisers or informs the public about a business organization event.
[48:22] Good service product use that is typically not available on the site where the sign is currently located.
[48:31] It's important to note that under that definition, there are a couple of sign types that are not included.
[48:38] Some examples would be an open house sign or signs within a shopping center where there are often times are multiple properties, but the development as a whole is encompassing those multiple parcels.
[48:51] It's also important to bring to your attention that under current regulations offsite advertising signs are currently not permitted.
[49:03] With the regulations that the planning commission is considering this evening, staff is recommending that the city consider adopting regulations were offsite advertising signs would be permitted that comply with certain regulations.
[49:20] They would be subject to a master sign permit and a site development review application.
[49:25] There would be a limitation of a maximum of one offsite advertising sign per parcel.
[49:31] The offsite advertising signs would be limited to our light industrial, also known as our M1 zoning district, as well as within our Scarlet Court overlay, which is shown on page two of your staff report for reference.
[49:47] Additionally, staff is recommending buffers both from the iron horse trail, as well as close proximity to interstate 580.
[50:03] As well as a buffer between offsite advertising signs of 1000 feet between parcels that wouldn't contain those signs.
[50:13] Additionally, staff is recommending that proposed offsite advertising signs would need to comply with the outdoor advertising act as well as there be a limitation on the sign copy or the sign content, which would be limited to not allow the display of products goods or services that would be related to tobacco firearms or sexually explicit material.
[50:38] And really the intent of that is to protect local youth who inevitably would be exposed to those signs based upon their location.
[50:47] And that is based upon the city's effort to protect our youth while also taking to account current case law, which limits local jurisdictions ability to regulate signs based upon their content.
[51:01] As well as taking into account a number of existing studies that speak to those impacts of those examples that I've cited.
[51:12] It's important to bring to your attention that this matter has been considered by our economic development committee, which is comprised of two representatives of our city council.
[51:23] They consider the matter on January 31st of this year, at which point in time the committee was in full support and unanimously recommended bringing the proposed regulations to the city council for approval.
[51:38] So staff is recommending this evening that the Planning Commission conduct a public hearing, deliberate and adopt a resolution recommending city council approval of the amendments to chapter 8.84 of the zoning ordinance specifically related to offsite advertising.
[51:52] To offset advertising signs, available for any questions or comments that you may have.
[51:56] Thank you very much.
[51:58] Commissioners and questions that you would have of staff.
[52:03] Commissioner Greer.
[52:05] Start on your end to work our way over.
[52:07] What's the benefit of changing that ordinance.
[52:11] To the average.
[52:14] So that this is a task that was initiated by our economic development division and really it is to benefit some of our local businesses.
[52:23] It's the intention.
[52:25] Commissioner.
[52:27] So I guess further what was the impetus of this endeavor here was their actual outreach to the city from many business owners that desire to.
[52:40] Do what is proposed to.
[52:42] So our economic development division has routine discussions with a number of our local businesses and this is one that has come up.
[52:50] As part of economic development staff's effort to address some concerns of some existing businesses that are struggling financially.
[53:00] I think it's fair to also say that there is an existing sign changeable copy sign on the undi.
[53:08] The card dealership property, which is probably most specifically at the impetus, so they'd like to be able to provide offset advertising on that existing sign.
[53:25] I have one question is there if we if will this cascade to other signage throughout the city.
[53:35] Is that precedent for other changes to occur or is this just a single.
[53:40] So area.
[53:41] So as drafted the regulations are to a limited geographic area.
[53:47] And the area was selected because it is more industrial in nature.
[53:51] It has a relationship with.
[53:53] Interstate five five eighty.
[53:56] The aesthetics in that area are a little bit different than some of the other areas that have been redeveloped.
[54:02] So at this point in time, the regulations would be limited to the geographic area as spelled out in the draft regulations until such time that the city.
[54:12] Could choose to modify those standards.
[54:17] And at that time, it would come forth to us again for correct.
[54:20] Another potential correct.
[54:23] Commissioner.
[54:24] Thank you.
[54:25] A couple of questions.
[54:26] I understand maybe the size is not part of this ordinance.
[54:31] It is covered in existing ordinance.
[54:35] The size of the size of the signs.
[54:37] The size of the signs.
[54:38] Correct.
[54:39] So the size of the sign would be.
[54:42] So the size of the sign.
[54:44] So for instance, if it's a free standing sign, it would be subject to the size parameters of a free standing sign as an example.
[54:52] Okay.
[54:53] And I have similar question as a couple of my colleagues ask.
[54:57] Can you give an example of.
[54:59] This is something that we cannot do now.
[55:02] And passing of this ordinance will allow the businesses to do.
[55:07] After the ordinance is adopted.
[55:10] Correct.
[55:11] Currently off site advertising signs with a couple are not permitted within Dublin.
[55:18] If the city council were to adopt these regulations.
[55:23] And an applicant were to apply for a master sign permit and a site development review application and receive approval from the city.
[55:33] And they would comply with the standards that are adopted in the regulations.
[55:38] And then the off site advertising sign could be installed.
[55:42] So for example, if I own a business.
[55:44] I cannot have off site sign right now.
[55:47] But with passing of ordinance, how does that help me?
[55:51] How far I can post a sign off site?
[55:55] So if you have an existing business.
[55:58] You do not have authorization under the current regulations to have a sign promoting your business off site.
[56:07] And by passing this today if it does pass and then it goes to council and passes.
[56:12] This will allow other businesses within the city of Dublin to advertise on that specific existing secured industrial areas sign.
[56:22] So it's basically an opportunity for a business that's there now.
[56:26] Who might be financially struggling to get some additional income.
[56:30] While also allowing other businesses in the city of Dublin to utilize that said sign to promote their business.
[56:38] So it makes perfect sense why the economic development would unanimously approve that.
[56:45] We're trying to keep and sustain our businesses in the city of Dublin.
[56:50] And this is a fairly simple way and very regulated way to do so.
[56:59] Thank you.
[57:01] So this this would be for existing signs because you I mean you brought up the the Hyundai sign so that's an existing sign but this would allow correct me if I'm wrong additional sign to say if the Volkswagen dealer want to put up a sign.
[57:17] Would they be able to.
[57:19] It could allow additional signs if they comply with our sign regulations and these new standards and then just to pick.
[57:28] If Mercedes wanted to advertise it on said sign that folks wagon.
[57:35] So in other words, it doesn't have to be a Dublin business to advertise on said sign.
[57:41] It could be a pleasant to deliver more a Castro Valley at any business.
[57:47] Correct it could be businesses that would be located outside of Dublin that could advertise on the sign and it wouldn't necessarily be limited to businesses advertising.
[57:57] Advertising events or other things as well.
[57:59] Could it be Budweiser.
[58:02] I don't know alcohols from what I understand.
[58:05] I didn't see alcohols.
[58:07] Could it be Budweiser?
[58:09] Or Coca Cola.
[58:10] Okay.
[58:11] Yes.
[58:14] So speak to how this is different than a because you see as you're going towards the Bay Bridge and see the electronic billboards that are going along the.
[58:25] As you're going into the Bay Bridge, there is this.
[58:29] In essence, would this allow.
[58:31] That it could be similar to that.
[58:33] Yes.
[58:34] Okay.
[58:35] Thank you.
[58:36] I have a quick question just a clarification.
[58:38] I know that there was an RV dealership in West Dublin and they could not.
[58:44] Put signs up.
[58:46] So this would be similar.
[58:48] Are we.
[58:49] It kind of now being able to.
[58:52] They couldn't put signs up off their property to advertise their business.
[58:57] But now we're because of this economic development piece.
[59:01] We're allowing that.
[59:02] This would be something that we're modifying to allow such.
[59:05] Yes, but again.
[59:06] In industrial area within this limited geographic area, that would be M1 zoning.
[59:12] Our scarlet court overlay.
[59:14] That would comply with those buffers.
[59:16] I guess I'm just asking to see if if at some point another.
[59:21] In industrial area within this city, it will just be case by case basis if they.
[59:28] Choose to do something like this on their area in any industrial area at some point.
[59:35] So.
[59:36] And just that suffer at this point in time because it is a departure from our current regulations was to limit the area.
[59:44] In essence, this would work in a way like a pilot program.
[59:48] It would be that this is where as far as it goes or it could be that years down the line.
[59:56] We receive direction to further amend the regulations.
[1:00:00] Okay, yet to be determined at this point in time.
[1:00:03] Okay, perfect. No, I was just curious, because I remember that happening several years ago, and I was like, oh, this kind of looks good.
[1:00:13] Is it for me? Thank you.
[1:00:18] Celebrations will begin. Can we see our group? It sounds good to me. Can we see our team?
[1:00:29] I think that would potentially bring billboards and, you know, the, the proliferation of said, I would be against.
[1:00:41] I've moved to Dublin from Castro Valley where there was all billboards along, Castro Valley Boulevard, and it was bright, and I wouldn't want even a possibility of that coming to Dublin.
[1:00:56] So whether there's all good intent here or not, I don't even want the door open to correct to have it as a possibility.
[1:01:07] I would, you know, just, say, proceed with caution.
[1:01:14] It's, I know that intent is good, but two out of five cancel members on a economic commission doesn't necessarily speak to the entire council.
[1:01:26] So I don't know that that necessarily should be taken out of the council thinks that this is a wonderful idea.
[1:01:38] I have to agree to some degree with Commissioner Matan, as in, it does open the door for potential.
[1:01:51] I mean, I understand the economic development, and I see it from both sides, but for me it's the concern is that not only can, other, it's, it's not, it's not necessarily just limited to Dublin businesses, but it's opening.
[1:02:06] But it's opening to other businesses, which I think at this point would be best for Dublin businesses.
[1:02:12] But I think the Dublin advertiser makes money regardless of who advertises on that sign, and I think that's where the benefit to the Dublin business comes.
[1:02:22] I mean, it would be great if a Dublin business was advertising a Dublin business, that would be a win-win, but at least in this case it's an opportunity for the Dublin business to make money.
[1:02:31] I think that's the pitch.
[1:02:34] And I would just argue that with the average Dubliner say that this is something that they would want, that in essence, the city, once they opened this door, a crack wouldn't have zero control over what is put up on that sign.
[1:02:52] So it could be something that everybody thinks is wonderful, they're advertising an upcoming fair in Dublin, or it could be.
[1:03:00] But why is there it could be any other things that some people would have concerns about, some wouldn't.
[1:03:08] And I just, there's other ways to make money and how about run your business and make money selling product.
[1:03:20] I think I couldn't agree more. We are all for economic development. We want to see Dublin thriving, but at the same time, we have to draw lines.
[1:03:29] Whether it's a tattoo color or selling more alcohol to be echo, I mean if we are against all of those, there are good reasons. Those are economic development as well. Those are businesses that we want to thrive as well, but at the same time.
[1:03:46] I don't think it's Commissioner Mitten says we live in Dublin for specific reasons, and this is not the Dublin that we want.
[1:03:55] We don't want billboards, we don't own advertising, just because we have free access, we have a part.
[1:04:01] There are other ways to make money, and I would be very hesitant to support this.
[1:04:08] I have one quick question to add is like clear channel with date, because that's another door that would open is resulted is because they do pay for billboards space.
[1:04:19] So I know that from dealing with it ourselves. We do use a lot. Clear channel would come in and there's a possibility they could do, you know, sell that to a vendor. So that's where it would start to get out of control, I think.
[1:04:36] Commissioner Plants aside from head nods, did you want to contribute to the conversation?
[1:04:40] Hit your button if you'd like this so we can hear.
[1:04:49] I'm saying think about where you see all this stuff and think about Dublin how you want to look. It's kind of cheesy if you will.
[1:04:58] And what size exactly on a post billboard or all electronic or a mixture or what, and then it starts looking kind of like.
[1:05:10] Not that great.
[1:05:13] Okay, and comments from me, we do have sign regulations that regulate the size of the billboards.
[1:05:22] We already have the electronic bulletin board that's up where Hyundai is and it is being utilized right now by the business for its own use as well as for city events on profit events.
[1:05:39] I'm not sure how much, how many people have reached out to or how much the current business owner has done regarding research as to getting advertisers or if this is just this is a process and we'd like to investigate it and that's why we're here.
[1:06:01] As far as an economic support.
[1:06:07] I think that when you're business well is not really good comment for businesses that are here in Dublin so I do take a bit of a fence to that and would certainly say that I'm sure that this business is doing everything they can to keep their business up and running.
[1:06:25] And that is why we're at this point they're looking for other opportunities to continue and be successful in the city of Dublin.
[1:06:33] As as the economy changes you know people do need to get creative with regards to the fact that we are limiting it to an industrial area.
[1:06:43] It's an industrial looking area already it has the sign already I don't know if any of the other properties in the area are going to let's go buy our own electronic sign.
[1:06:58] They may just reach out to the one that's already there so they don't have to pay a penny or try and argue to get one built so they would certainly have the option to utilize that advertisement and continue to.
[1:07:12] benefit from it as well so from a business standpoint a science standpoint a city standpoint.
[1:07:19] I don't believe it's a Pandora's box.
[1:07:22] We have specific regulations for science sizes on each properties and where they would go and and I think with good governance that we'd keep that in control and if anything were to come back.
[1:07:36] And I'm sure we would hear about it and have the opportunity to look at those as they they come up so I myself.
[1:07:44] I'm in favor so.
[1:07:47] As far as the straw pool.
[1:07:49] I don't think it's I'm encouraging unfettered signage I think it's controlled I think it's limited.
[1:07:57] And if it's what businesses want I think it's important to listen to that.
[1:08:04] We had one more point we won't support residents as well.
[1:08:09] And if we have residents who are struggling with mortgage payment.
[1:08:14] We still have ordinances.
[1:08:17] We don't allow certain things on homes just so that they can make money and make the mortgage payment.
[1:08:25] So here I don't see it any different with businesses.
[1:08:30] We support them but at the same time we have to have rules and regulations and restrictions on what they can do.
[1:08:38] To survive and survive.
[1:08:41] And to counter that.
[1:08:43] They could recommend or come to the city with a request to change those that ordinances and then they could come before us should they get the support and do the same exact thing and it can be decided upon and mitigated.
[1:08:59] I think we are we are here for the community every business owner in this city does not necessarily live in the city.
[1:09:08] Every resident in the city does live in the city.
[1:09:12] So comparing a business with a resident I would always favor a resident.
[1:09:19] I have a quick question too on what the signage is there.
[1:09:24] Is there any issues with the local residents from the apartments that have complained about those that sign or.
[1:09:40] There are there are no complaints in regards to the sign and question that I am aware of.
[1:09:46] Anybody on the freeway stuck in traffic complaining about that sign that it's coming through our damn.
[1:09:52] I'm not that I am aware of any of the businesses in that specific area complaining about that sign.
[1:09:58] Not that I'm aware of.
[1:10:00] Because I know at times in in Oakland and and the signs so that are the electronic signs that has been an issue with traffic issues on the bridge.
[1:10:12] People coming off and people coming on so as people are going and using 580 all the time.
[1:10:19] I'm not sure if I've I was just curious to see if there was any issues with traffic.
[1:10:25] Especially with that area so sensitive to the there's such a congestion with as the to in a highways intersect.
[1:10:36] So clarifying question to make sure I'm understanding your concern is your concern from a safety standpoint because of the content changing or what specifically is the concern in regards to traffic.
[1:10:49] The the sign currently changes copy now so that wouldn't change this these regulations just would allow a different type of advertising on the sign that exists.
[1:11:00] So I have a question and related.
[1:11:03] So this sign this specific sign and we're speaking of.
[1:11:08] And potentially more to do other signs but this specific specific sign that we're referring to here the Hyundai sign this came before the commission a couple years ago did it.
[1:11:17] Yes.
[1:11:18] And this was not an issue at that point.
[1:11:20] Was it.
[1:11:21] No.
[1:11:22] Can I change my vote.
[1:11:24] If this had been a possibility that had been.
[1:11:31] Brought up at that time I certainly would not have voted for said sign at that time so.
[1:11:39] In my mind they they're incrementally expanding the usage of that sign when it was agreed upon at the time of that vote that that would not occur.
[1:11:51] And as a city we do have many things that come before us that come back and change so that's how.
[1:12:00] The city's growing change in ordinance is changing zoning changes and.
[1:12:05] That's all part and parcel.
[1:12:10] I understand that city hasn't received any complaints about the signage.
[1:12:17] Has city received any.
[1:12:19] Commendations that those signages are beautiful we should add more.
[1:12:26] I think I think perhaps maybe you should just.
[1:12:32] Yeah, I think I think you know entertain a motion and I'm ready to make a motion to deny the staff recommendation all second set motion.
[1:12:39] All those in favor.
[1:12:41] I.
[1:12:42] I.
[1:12:43] All those opposed.
[1:12:45] I.
[1:12:46] Oh wait a minute so.
[1:12:49] I am with the first one.
[1:12:51] I.
[1:12:52] We'll redo the vote.
[1:12:53] Sorry, I'll read the vote. Sorry.
[1:12:55] Commissioner.
[1:12:56] Please make the motion please.
[1:12:57] I make the motion to deny the staff recommendation.
[1:12:59] I'll second set motion.
[1:13:01] All those in favor of declining the motion.
[1:13:04] I.
[1:13:05] All those opposed.
[1:13:07] I.
[1:13:08] It is declined by vote of three to two.
[1:13:12] Thank you very much.
[1:13:18] Okay, we move on to unfinished business.
[1:13:28] None.
[1:13:29] Any new business.
[1:13:31] Right before.
[1:13:32] Okay.
[1:13:33] Any other business.
[1:13:34] Just going to mention your next meeting is February the 25th I believe.
[1:13:48] Yeah.
[1:13:49] February 25th.
[1:13:51] And the at double in project will be on that agenda.
[1:13:55] That's it.
[1:13:58] All right.
[1:13:59] Then I just wanted to apologize to the group for being late.
[1:14:01] It was senior night.