1 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:24,480 session of December 17th, 2005 at 6 p.m. Um, everyone is here except for Ed 2 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:29,080 McGuire who is excused. Uh, will you join me in the pledge of 3 00:00:26,080 --> 00:00:29,080 allegiance? 4 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:42,000 I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic 5 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:48,520 for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and 6 00:00:44,879 --> 00:00:48,520 justice for all. 7 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,440 » Thank you. 8 00:00:53,055 --> 00:00:58,520 [clears throat] I need consideration of the agenda. 9 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:05,439 I'll make a motion to approve the agenda. 10 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:10,240 » Thank you. All in favor? >> I. 11 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:14,799 » Thank you. We need uh consideration of the cons 12 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:18,159 consent agenda. >> Do we want to vote? 13 00:01:16,479 --> 00:01:20,080 » Oh, [snorts] I said all in favor. >> Oh, okay. I'm sorry. 14 00:01:19,119 --> 00:01:22,400 » They all said I. >> Okay. I guess I'm [clears throat] 15 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:26,400 behind. >> Um, sorry about that. 16 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:29,040 » I should wait for you. We'll make a motion to approve the 17 00:01:27,759 --> 00:01:33,960 consent agenda. >> I need a motion to approve. 18 00:01:30,960 --> 00:01:33,960 » Second. 19 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:39,799 » All in favor? >> I 20 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:51,280 so approved. Okay. Um announcements, please. 21 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:55,119 » Yes, a couple. Um so Dire Way, um I did um hear from the county and they have 22 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:58,799 gotten some permits. So, I'm thinking that means that they're going to be 23 00:01:56,399 --> 00:02:04,719 starting that pro project hopefully sometime very soon. So, um and then two, 24 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:08,239 I know that Larry's already kind of talked about it, but the weather, I 25 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:13,280 guess we're expecting a pretty nasty storm, so make sure that um expecting 26 00:02:11,039 --> 00:02:17,200 high winds and lots of flooding. So, something to be aware of for people. And 27 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:22,720 then the last thing that I wanted to bring up was um we did hear back from 28 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:28,319 the Oregon water department on our permit amendment and um they have a 29 00:02:26,239 --> 00:02:32,879 laundry list of things that they want us to do now. So I am working on that um 30 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:39,360 right now. >> Okay. Can I ask a question? Refresh my 31 00:02:35,920 --> 00:02:43,840 memory. What a dire way project. What is that? There is probably Rich can explain 32 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:48,480 that probably better than I can, but >> there's a culvert that has uh broken out 33 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:52,000 underneath the road that's had played over it for 2 years. 34 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:56,640 » Oh, really? Okay. Yeah. All right. >> They were fighting over whether it was 35 00:02:53,599 --> 00:02:57,760 county or private and has agreed to fix it now. 36 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:02,480 » Oh, cool. >> And it's been determined for well over a 37 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:06,720 year that it was the county and they took responsibility that it took them 38 00:03:04,319 --> 00:03:10,000 that long to get to fixing it. >> And where's Dy? Is that the one that's 39 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:12,720 just uh west of your place? >> Just a 40 00:03:10,959 --> 00:03:16,080 » steel plays. Yes, that's okay. I know where that is. Okay, thanks. [snorts] 41 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:23,040 » Oh, that's good. >> And then you after it's all fixed after 42 00:03:20,159 --> 00:03:28,159 then it's going to be back to >> I think it's be private. Yeah, 43 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:32,400 » it it'll be in Dune City, but it'll be accepted as part of the city, but the 44 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:35,200 residents will take care of the actual 45 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:39,360 » the maintenance >> actually be a Dune City road, but it 46 00:03:36,879 --> 00:03:43,280 will be a private road. >> Okay. [clears throat] Okay. Thank you. 47 00:03:41,599 --> 00:03:45,360 » And the entrance is actually being moved from where it is, correct? 48 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:50,159 » Slightly. >> Yes, it's moving an angle 49 00:03:48,239 --> 00:03:53,680 away. Okay. 50 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:59,840 Thank you for that. Anything else, Laya? No, that's it. 51 00:03:55,440 --> 00:04:03,280 » Okay. Um, Susan input. Linda, 52 00:04:02,239 --> 00:04:07,599 you have anything? >> I'm ready. Didn't think it'd be first 53 00:04:05,439 --> 00:04:12,239 thing, but I'm ready. And do I just speak from right here? 54 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:16,320 » Yes, I have three minutes. >> Okay. All right. Good evening, council 55 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:20,479 members. Me and my husband have owned property here since 1999. We chose to 56 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:24,720 purchase in this area because of its beauty and tranquility. However, the 57 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:29,840 motto Dune City is a good place to live no longer applies to us. A house across 58 00:04:27,280 --> 00:04:34,080 from us at 5175 Russell Drive has been operating as a short-term rental shortly 59 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:37,759 after it was built. Initially advertised as sleeping 14, it is a six-bedroom, 60 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:42,240 five- bath home that has repeatedly attracted large groups, sometimes in 61 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:46,400 excess of 24 overnight guests. We have eight full-time residents on our street, 62 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:50,720 so this in effect can quadruple the size of our neighborhood overnight. 63 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:54,000 This property has become a nuisance and has greatly affected the tranquility of 64 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:57,840 our neighborhood. Problems related to this property have been increased 65 00:04:55,280 --> 00:05:02,320 traffic, excessive noise, loud parties, trash, dogs defecating on neighbors 66 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:06,800 lawn, and even a human defecating on the lawn, but at least in this case, it was 67 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:10,160 on the lawn that she was renting. At least six neighbors have submitted 68 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:13,680 complaints about this property, yet only one has been deemed valid. Changes in 69 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:17,840 the complaint process have made it more difficult for residents concerns to be 70 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:21,840 addressed. Despite this, Igor, your compliance officer, does an amazing job, 71 00:05:19,840 --> 00:05:25,840 and I cannot thank him enough because he's just excellent. However, many of us 72 00:05:24,479 --> 00:05:29,759 are wondering if we are fighting a battle that can't be won. This was 73 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:33,440 reinforced when property manager Jim Donahghue told neighbor Guy Tough that 74 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:37,680 complaining to Dune City was a waste of time, adding that no rental permit will 75 00:05:35,759 --> 00:05:42,000 ever be revoked by Dune City because the city relies on the income. 76 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:46,479 When Jim has been contacted with concern, he largely ignores them. When 77 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:51,199 he does reply, Jim's messages to two of us was to quit harassing him. He hung up 78 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:55,039 on another neighbor who called to report trespassing. When several of us 79 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:59,280 contacted him about the large group on roadie days, he said he would go over 80 00:05:56,479 --> 00:06:02,720 and talk to them, but never did. I have included the owners in some 81 00:06:00,639 --> 00:06:06,960 communications and no reply was ever received from them. Jim Donahghue, as 82 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:10,720 well as the property owners, have made it abundantly clear that they have no 83 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:14,080 interest or need to address our concerns. 84 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:17,680 This year, four lots were purchased in our neighborhood by existing residents 85 00:06:15,840 --> 00:06:21,919 and for the sole purpose of making sure that we would have another person come 86 00:06:19,919 --> 00:06:25,919 in, build a house, and turn it into a short-term rental. 87 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:29,759 When someone applies to Dune City for a short-term rental permit, it states that 88 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:33,520 the CCNRs must be submitted with the application. Our CCNRs state that no 89 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:37,919 business is allowed in our development, which seems to have been ignored. 90 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:41,600 An employee of DC explained that short-term rentals are not recognized as 91 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:45,280 a business. And when I replied that the BBB and IRS view them as a business, I 92 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:49,199 was told that it would be a good question for a lawyer. I don't want to 93 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:54,080 go that route, but have already reached out to an attorney out of desperation. 94 00:06:52,319 --> 00:06:59,039 I am asking you for a system that protects permanent residents. Part of 95 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:02,720 which could be or part of which would be to create a process that includes 96 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:07,919 gathering neighborhood import input sorry before renewing a short-term 97 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:11,039 permit plus evaluating certain things such as the size of the rental in 98 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:15,360 relationship to the neighborhood, the complaints against the property, the 99 00:07:13,199 --> 00:07:20,880 owner property manager compliance in regards to complaints, 100 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:25,120 etc. Please do not renew permits to these problematic properties who have 101 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:29,840 shown no effort to be a good neighbor and who have made Dune City not a good 102 00:07:27,599 --> 00:07:33,360 place to live. Thank you for your time and consideration. 103 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:37,759 » Thank you, >> Geneva. 104 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:43,360 » I didn't come with anything, but I would like to support what she's saying. I uh 105 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:48,479 I can recall when decision was being made about how many uh short-term 106 00:07:46,479 --> 00:07:54,160 rentals would be allowed and some of the and the and the details of it. And I'm 107 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:58,000 not confident I was real certain it's going to protect people and I think we 108 00:07:56,639 --> 00:08:04,000 need to be looking through short-term rental situation again. And I thought 109 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:08,000 that before. So anyway, um whatever we can do to help this woman because it's 110 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:11,520 next time is going to be my turn. My sister lives with lives with that 111 00:08:09,759 --> 00:08:13,360 problem right now. The one >> Thank you, 112 00:08:12,639 --> 00:08:17,759 » Genie. >> Um, yes, I I concur with Geneva and 113 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:22,560 thank you very much for raising the issue. It's been an ongoing issue 114 00:08:20,879 --> 00:08:26,240 despite the fact that people don't really want short-term rentals. We 115 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:30,639 understand you're relying on them to stay alive, but it it isn't good for a 116 00:08:29,039 --> 00:08:34,320 lot of people live in the community. I suppose it's great for the people with 117 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:38,640 the short-term rentals because they're just out to make money. and the city 118 00:08:36,399 --> 00:08:42,880 sees it the same way for those of us who live next to one who have to deal with 119 00:08:40,399 --> 00:08:47,600 the issues evolving from them. And you're right, there just isn't a good 120 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:53,760 form of enforcement. And I believe that, you know, people are trying hard. I 121 00:08:49,680 --> 00:08:56,959 think you trying hard. It just is uh people aren't honest and that's the 122 00:08:55,279 --> 00:08:59,760 problem. I know you go and try to address things with them and are they 123 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:03,360 even honest when they fill out their form? How many of them have a short-term 124 00:09:01,680 --> 00:09:06,000 rental that aren't even reporting it to the city? 125 00:09:05,279 --> 00:09:11,760 Thank you. >> Thank you. 126 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:18,000 Okay, on to reports. Mayor report says I have it and I don't. So, [laughter] 127 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:23,519 no mayor report tonight. Um, the permit report is in your packet. 128 00:09:20,959 --> 00:09:31,080 You u anyone have any questions that Pam's 129 00:09:26,399 --> 00:09:31,080 here need to address anything? 130 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:45,560 I appreciate the year end summary. >> Yeah, I thought that was nice. 131 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:56,519 Okay, with that we'll go on to code enforcement report. We do have the code 132 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:56,519 enforcement report in here. 133 00:10:12,560 --> 00:10:18,399 not hearing anything. Um, 134 00:10:16,079 --> 00:10:23,839 » could I just add something at this point to the code enforcement? Do we have any 135 00:10:21,279 --> 00:10:29,279 process where we get anything from law enforcement when 136 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:34,000 um there's some kind of an action within the city boundaries 137 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:37,600 uh visa be crime or burglaries or anything like that. Do we have anything 138 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:41,279 like that that inter interfaces with code enforcement at all? 139 00:10:39,519 --> 00:10:47,680 » Not that I know of. >> Okay. Because I've seen some things on 140 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:52,880 Facebook where uh people had cams on their house cameras and there were 141 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:58,800 people walking up and down their driveway checking car doors and stuff 142 00:10:55,839 --> 00:11:02,880 like that. Um, so I don't know if that's something we can look at. 143 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:07,279 » Well, that's something they should um give that information to um the 144 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:10,160 sheriff's department, right? >> Where they can do a report, but 145 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:13,600 » is there any way we can interface with that to get an idea if there's areas of 146 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:16,880 our community that we need to kind of have a neighborhood watch for? 147 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:19,680 » I think all neighborhoods should have a neighborhood watch. 148 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:22,320 » Oh, sure. I agree with that, too. Yeah. But I was just curious if we had 149 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:26,800 anything yet because >> we we are not organizing neighborhoods 150 00:11:24,959 --> 00:11:29,839 watch because most the neighborhoods have done self organization, 151 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:36,959 » right? >> Okay. Thank you. 152 00:11:33,279 --> 00:11:45,160 » There's no executive session. So, um, for the good of the order, 153 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,160 Duke. 154 00:11:45,279 --> 00:11:51,600 » Yeah, I have a couple things. First thing, I'd like to revisit this Russell 155 00:11:49,519 --> 00:11:56,240 Drive problem. I personally have never been a fan of the 156 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:59,920 short-term rentals in the residential areas. I've seen what 157 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:05,120 it's done. I've been in Dune City for over 40 years. My neighborhood, we used 158 00:12:02,560 --> 00:12:09,279 to have children and families with children. Now we they can't afford to 159 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:15,680 live there. So, it's all older folks or short-term rentals. And 160 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:20,000 I've experienced the same thing that you've done a couple years ago when I 161 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:24,959 was on the council. I was right in the middle of a big problem that was down on 162 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:31,440 cloud9 and worked with the property owners on that and I seen firsthand how 163 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:36,560 people were treating those and the overflow for septic is what was a big 164 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:41,920 concern then. Too many people in the house. 165 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:48,560 But we have I believe we have to worry about our citizens first over business 166 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:54,560 opportunities for somebody running a short-term rental. I I I I've never been 167 00:12:52,079 --> 00:13:00,160 for them. Uh I think they take away from Dune City. As far as as far as us being 168 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:06,079 dependent on the funds from that, that's that's not real viable. We have other 169 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:09,360 ways that we're getting most of our money that doesn't come from short-term 170 00:13:07,839 --> 00:13:13,519 rentals. So, >> so with that said, do do would you like 171 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,880 to revisit the short-term rental ordinance? 172 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:19,839 » Yeah, I would. >> Okay. So, I will Laya, would you please 173 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:24,079 put that for a upcoming council meeting? We'll revisit the short-term rental. 174 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:27,120 » I I'd also like to get some information from you 175 00:13:25,519 --> 00:13:32,079 » before you get out of here. >> Okay. The other thing is on a nicer 176 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:36,160 note, I would like to thank the city staff for 177 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:41,120 the potluck Christmas dinner. It was very 178 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:44,240 nice. I don't think there were too many empty seats. It seemed like it was a 179 00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:50,000 pretty good crowd. A lot of good food, great dessert. I learned how to play, 180 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:55,680 you know, with a couple Mormon boys. That was interesting. 181 00:13:52,880 --> 00:14:02,720 Um, the other thing I'd like to bring up is we didn't do it all the time, but in 182 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:09,279 the past we've recognized staff for the good job they've done all year long come 183 00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:15,120 Christmas time. And uh, I'd like to make a motion that we 184 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:19,680 do something for them. Maybe a $50 thank you or I'm not sure how that would be 185 00:14:17,519 --> 00:14:24,320 taken care of, but do something for for the staff. I think they've done a great 186 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:28,360 job. That's it. >> Okay. Thank you. 187 00:14:28,399 --> 00:14:31,399 Um, 188 00:14:31,839 --> 00:14:36,760 » can we talk about that now or do we need to 189 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:43,279 » get order? I don't know that we can >> was done in the past. 190 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:44,639 » Yeah. >> Yeah. 191 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:48,320 » Yeah. >> We're we're still on an open session. I 192 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:51,040 just wanted to make sure that um >> we're not I'm just double checking 193 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:57,600 everything. >> Um so, does anyone else uh want to um 194 00:14:55,680 --> 00:15:00,480 second the motion to give Christmas bonuses? 195 00:14:59,199 --> 00:15:04,399 » I'll second that. >> Great. 196 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:09,040 Um any a you have a dollar amount or what 197 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:13,279 Duke said? >> I think he said $50. I think that's an 198 00:15:11,199 --> 00:15:18,240 appropriate number and I second that motion as he made it. 199 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:24,639 » Okay. So, a motion was made by Duke, seconded by Larry. 200 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:30,320 Um, all in favor. >> Any [clears throat] opposed? 201 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:33,839 » Abstain. I don't think it's legal, so I'm not voting on it. 202 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:40,000 » Not to. >> Okay. So, why don't we add to that 203 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:45,360 motion that once we check to see if it's a legal thing to do? Mhm. 204 00:15:42,639 --> 00:15:48,800 » I think it might be within the gift aotment. 205 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:51,279 » I don't believe it's legal, but I could be wrong. 206 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:57,199 » That's okay. >> Um, so we will put a caveat on that. Can 207 00:15:55,040 --> 00:16:00,639 we uh check with council to make sure it's the appropriate thing to do? 208 00:15:58,959 --> 00:16:06,800 » Yeah, for sure. >> Um, so thank you. And, uh, if it's 209 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:10,120 legal, motion passes. >> Sounds good. 210 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:21,279 I too would like to revisit the short term. I I have always been one to one 211 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:26,720 great place to live. Two, those are money income making. Those are 212 00:16:23,279 --> 00:16:30,880 businesses. Um I do not feel that Dune City needs to generate funds from 213 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:35,199 short-term rentals. That's not what we're about. Our thing is is to do 214 00:16:33,279 --> 00:16:41,360 diligence to our citizens and our people of this town. Um I have from the get-go 215 00:16:38,399 --> 00:16:46,560 not for short-term rentals. So, I am I'm definitely with Duke and bringing that 216 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:51,279 back toward the table and discussing either reducing the amount 217 00:16:48,959 --> 00:16:52,959 significantly or getting rid of them all together. 218 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,920 » Thank you. >> We can't really do that because of the 219 00:16:54,959 --> 00:16:59,440 city. >> Well, we definitely need to talk about 220 00:16:57,519 --> 00:17:03,279 something then because that's >> I'm not going to have my I'm not going 221 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:07,919 to have my, you know, stepping down from here. I'm not going to have my place 222 00:17:04,799 --> 00:17:12,880 where I reside taken over by people. There's no way if we continue to have 223 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:15,360 our town bought out by short-term rentals, we're not going to regenerate. 224 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,679 » I know. >> No. 225 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:20,400 » Or we're we're going to be gone. We're not going to be Dun City anymore. We're 226 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:23,919 going to be like, "Oh, great place to live." Well, Argin are going to be, "Oh, 227 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,679 those are vacation rental. It's a vacation rental town." 228 00:17:25,360 --> 00:17:28,960 » Yeah. >> I don't want Dun City to be gone. 229 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:32,640 » 100%. >> So then, you know, 230 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:34,000 » Okay. You want to jump in here for with that, Larry? 231 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:39,039 » What do you mean? >> You're next. Well, uh, I was going to 232 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:43,760 make a motion also, uh, council to revisit the short-term rental ordinance. 233 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:48,000 I think there's a lot of issues that we need to resolve. And I notice, uh, 234 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:52,960 candidly, having traveled all over the place, that a lot of communities, 235 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:57,280 states, counties, everywhere, they are revisiting short-term rentals. And for 236 00:17:55,200 --> 00:18:01,679 the very reasons that Duke mentioned, you know, it reduces housing stock. It 237 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:05,760 it, you know, it changes the dynamic of affordability for families with 238 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:10,000 children. or even seniors. >> Yeah. 239 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:15,840 » And um you know, I I live over on Cloud9 and there's one um short-term rental 240 00:18:13,679 --> 00:18:22,000 which Duke is familiar with, but there's a lot of houses that are just empty 241 00:18:20,799 --> 00:18:26,799 » cuz they're vacation homes. >> They're vacation homes, right? And so 242 00:18:23,679 --> 00:18:30,720 it's like I would like to see as much neighborhood as possible. I like to meet 243 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:34,240 my neighbors and and talk to them when they're out and about. And I think 244 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:37,600 having more neighbors is a good thing who have an invested interest in 245 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:40,640 watching my house and I'm watching theirs and that sort of thing. 246 00:18:39,120 --> 00:18:47,440 » The other thing I'm concerned about is that as a city um I think that anytime 247 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:50,880 we do something of such import whether it's a planning action or short-term 248 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:55,280 rental type ordinance if it's going to affect our community citizens and 249 00:18:53,039 --> 00:18:59,679 neighbors and residents that we need to give them adequate notice. And what does 250 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:05,440 that notice look like? It means that we notify them in advance by mail or email 251 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:08,720 or something we can do so that they know that there's a question that could come 252 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:12,240 up before the council and they can come like they did this evening and give 253 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:16,480 their input be here to give their input so that we have the benefit of their 254 00:19:13,679 --> 00:19:19,679 advice and counsel because if if it were my neighborhood and that we were going 255 00:19:17,919 --> 00:19:24,799 to have a short-term rental added next door and I was told well it was on the 256 00:19:23,039 --> 00:19:28,480 website. I'm sorry. I don't check the Dune City website once a week to see if 257 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:34,160 there's something adverse coming to my neighborhood. I don't uh look in the 258 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:37,440 newspaper for posts from the Dune City that there's an ordinance being 259 00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:40,320 considered. What I want is what I typically get in Florence for my 260 00:19:39,013 --> 00:19:43,200 [clears throat] business. I get a letter saying, "By the way, this action's 261 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:46,799 coming forward in your neighborhood. It might be vegetation removal. It might be 262 00:19:45,039 --> 00:19:51,760 road work. It might be power line work. It might be a development. Whatever it 263 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:55,360 is, I'd like us to completely revisit what it means to give notice to our 264 00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:59,840 residents because I want them to feel heard. I want them to have an 265 00:19:57,679 --> 00:20:03,520 opportunity to feel like they are part of the process here. So, I totally 266 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:08,400 endorse the idea that we would revisit this. But as part of that, I want to see 267 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:13,840 us revisit what notice means, effective notice. And my second item is thank you 268 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:18,960 again, staff, for a lovely day. That Christmas was awesome. 269 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:23,600 And I will make one third point. If it's not legal to pay the bonuses, I will 270 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:28,080 contribute the money for the bonuses, but you're going to get bonuses one way 271 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:31,360 or the other. Okay, [laughter] that's all I have. 272 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:35,919 » Chris, >> yeah. Um, whether we revisit it, sounds 273 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:39,039 like we're going to that's six-month process. Like, that's not quick. It took 274 00:20:37,679 --> 00:20:44,400 us six months to get through it last time. So, that's not going to solve the 275 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:49,600 immediate issue. We we put a process in place to deal with offending properties. 276 00:20:47,039 --> 00:20:53,600 So I would ask the staff to compile, you know, a summary of this property in 277 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:57,679 particular so that we can give some special attention to that one. 278 00:20:55,200 --> 00:21:04,000 » He already has that. We have that ready. >> Yeah. So we'll we'll execute the process 279 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:08,240 we have for this property. Um hopefully to get an immediate solution. 280 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:10,240 » Yeah. >> Thank you. 281 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:15,679 » Are you done, Chris? >> Yes. Okay, Rich, 282 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:18,559 » you know, uh, we just implemented that process 283 00:21:16,799 --> 00:21:24,159 » not 6 months ago. >> And if people felt that way, why did we 284 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:29,600 just waste the time of the whole staff and the council and all the dollars that 285 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:34,080 the efforts that were put in, why wasn't it just turned down to start with? 286 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:40,880 » Because just about everybody that was here was on that and passed that. So, we 287 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:43,280 should have not wasted our time. That's all I got. 288 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:48,400 » It was an issue though, Rich. You know, and it had I think what's happened is is 289 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:52,159 now that we've had it and we seen I feel the abuse by the people that are running 290 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:57,360 these things, how hard they are to get a hold of, you know, over here that's 291 00:21:54,559 --> 00:22:01,120 called this bone here. But it personally, I've seen it coming before 292 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:04,720 we did that and I've never been for it. I'm on record. 293 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:08,320 » I I got a question, Eigor. >> Yes. Um have have we had report from 294 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,960 this? >> Yes. 295 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:15,200 » Let me report on Russell Donates. 296 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:19,720 » Has it been going through the process? >> Yes. 297 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,720 » And has it been working? 298 00:22:19,919 --> 00:22:24,159 » Well, if the process is based on following the rules in the SDR 299 00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:28,400 ordinance, >> okay, then that's that's what was 300 00:22:25,919 --> 00:22:33,360 created and that's what's working. But it it's just we we just wasted I don't 301 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:37,760 know how many hours if we're going to revisit to just shut it down. But it's 302 00:22:36,159 --> 00:22:41,280 neither here or there. That's just why >> I don't think it's to shut it down. I 303 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:44,480 think what just what I said I >> Well, that's that's what I'm getting 304 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:48,720 here. They shut it down. >> I think we need to revisit it. 305 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:53,360 » We see the flaws in it. >> We see there's flaws in it that we 306 00:22:50,559 --> 00:22:58,480 didn't know about before we said okay go along with it. 307 00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:01,919 My suggestion is also is that okay you have a new ordinance 308 00:22:59,919 --> 00:23:06,240 » and you have it in place for a while and now we have experience with it. Also 309 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:10,960 Duke and I were not on this council at that time 310 00:23:07,679 --> 00:23:14,480 » and so two of us weren't here. We don't know how it came about or how it was 311 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:17,280 voted in and that sort of thing. I'm a relatively new resident just in the last 312 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:23,360 two years. >> So my view is it's it's timely for us to 313 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:27,679 revisit it. We respect what was invested before, but 314 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:33,039 » we don't we don't take that as as an investment that is not 315 00:23:30,559 --> 00:23:36,400 retractable. Yes, it was an effort. It was made in good faith. We came up with 316 00:23:34,559 --> 00:23:39,520 with the best ordinance we could. Maybe it's not working for us. So now it's 317 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:42,559 time to revisit and take a look at it. >> And it doesn't even last year. Maybe 318 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,200 not. >> But here's the thing, Rich. Everything's 319 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:48,320 a trial and error. >> A year. 320 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:51,039 » The first one lasted a year, two years. and and just 321 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:55,200 » but everybody put their two cents in. I put my two cents in. I just think it was 322 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:57,200 a waste of time. That's all I'm saying. >> I don't think it was a waste of time, 323 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,520 Richard. >> It's a learning basis that we have to 324 00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:02,799 do. >> I don't think it's I don't feel And I'm 325 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:06,720 not even saying get rid of it, but the main thing I think we need is have more 326 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:11,840 teeth in it, especially to the people running these things. 327 00:24:08,799 --> 00:24:15,760 » That's that's what I think. >> It just doesn't seem like that the folks 328 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:19,200 that are running this pay any attention to what they just give you. Yeah. Okay. 329 00:24:17,919 --> 00:24:23,760 right? We'll take care of it and they move on because nothing really is 330 00:24:21,279 --> 00:24:29,919 happening to them. I think if we did take and and uh uh pull some licenses 331 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:32,880 from people that are repeat and getting complaints on maybe then the rest of 332 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:37,279 them would pay attention a little bit. >> Did did we not get uh D or the one on 333 00:24:35,919 --> 00:24:39,360 cloud9 taken care of? >> We did. 334 00:24:37,679 --> 00:24:43,520 » Well, I live on cloud >> the process work. Yeah, I can I can live 335 00:24:41,039 --> 00:24:46,799 on cloud and I think based on my observation, I don't know what the 336 00:24:45,039 --> 00:24:50,240 billings are, what the revenue is, but based on my observation, 337 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:53,440 » the number of times that it's rented is very few, 338 00:24:51,679 --> 00:24:58,080 » but I can say the people who have rented it have been very respectful. 339 00:24:55,360 --> 00:25:02,640 » So, my experience and whatever whatever Duke did, it it wasn't respectful before 340 00:25:01,679 --> 00:25:04,240 at all. >> No, 341 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:09,600 » at all. >> So, so the process did work. Well, 342 00:25:08,159 --> 00:25:14,400 there was a lot going on behind the scenes that wasn't 343 00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:19,760 » kosher with city council. >> Yeah, I'm just saying you got 344 00:25:16,799 --> 00:25:22,400 » you had a complete change of people in city. 345 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:26,480 » I had two other houses in my neighborhood that are kind of in some 346 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:30,799 state of rehabilitation. I don't even know what's going on there. And I 347 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:35,440 suspect that one where an old lady passed away and her kids are fixing. I I 348 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:38,400 suspect that's going to be a new Airbnb someday and it's right next to my house. 349 00:25:38,159 --> 00:25:41,840 » So, >> well, it it can't be unless they get 350 00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:45,440 approved. >> I understand. I understand. So, that's 351 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:49,679 why I'm interested in revisiting it. It's personal, but it's also for these 352 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:53,200 community members that want to to be heard. And so, let's look at it again. I 353 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:56,240 » I don't care get revenue. It just gives me more money. 354 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:59,799 » All right. Yeah. [laughter] It's all sent over to Darl. 355 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:06,559 You know, you can keep the same amount that we have right now. My my my thought 356 00:26:04,159 --> 00:26:11,120 is just enforcement. Put some teeth on on what we have on the books. Some real 357 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:15,440 teeth. >> I think there's some real teeth. 358 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:19,679 » Evidently not. >> Okay. Well, this is not the time we'll 359 00:26:17,360 --> 00:26:25,828 discuss it when we we get the ordinance out. There's no need for arguments 360 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,828 before Christmas. [laughter] 361 00:26:26,159 --> 00:26:32,000 » We all are very invested in the time. We are all very invested. 362 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:35,679 » I thought that we had put some real teeth in it. So, 363 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:39,360 » so I just want to say I do understand some of the things. There were things 364 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:44,880 put in it that I disagreed with and I got overruled by the council. So, I just 365 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:51,120 want to I have no problem revisiting this. Um, but everyone needs to be able 366 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,279 to state their opinion and no one needs to make anybody feel bad for their 367 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,039 opinion. >> That's right. It's correct. 368 00:26:54,559 --> 00:26:58,240 » It's >> I could get 369 00:26:57,039 --> 00:27:01,679 less. >> So, and 370 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:05,600 » question on that though. So, we were planning on doing how soon I guess is 371 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:11,520 the question. I mean, is this something we want to start first of January or 372 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:18,559 » I think part of it has to be redo finish redoing what a business is 373 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:23,600 » before we do the STRs because we have to change because it's not a business 374 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:27,760 according to our ordinance. So, if we wanted a business, we need to redo 375 00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:29,200 businesses before we redo the STR. >> That's good advice. 376 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,240 » Yeah. >> And for the audience's benefit, you 377 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:36,559 might tell them that we're currently reviewing reviewing that statute that 378 00:27:35,360 --> 00:27:38,480 the business code >> you just told them. So, that's great, 379 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,919 Larry. >> Oh, there you are. [laughter] 380 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:45,840 » Can I say one more thing? >> Yes. 381 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:50,480 » Part of the problem is people that have the short-term rentals 382 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:54,159 don't have 100% control when they live out of state. Mhm. 383 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:57,440 » They rely on their property managers. >> And we are having trouble with a couple 384 00:27:55,919 --> 00:28:02,880 property managers. >> That's where our problems lie. 385 00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:06,799 » Then you shut them down. >> There's nothing in the ordinance for a 386 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:10,559 bad property manager unless he has >> Well, if they're not if they're not 387 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:14,320 complying in the non-compliance portion of that allows you to shut them down, 388 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:19,760 » right? But they have to have three valid complaints. Let's do that. Rich, that 389 00:28:17,039 --> 00:28:22,960 might be our whole review to do that and agree just what you said right there. If 390 00:28:21,679 --> 00:28:25,440 they're out of compliance, >> it's already in there. 391 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:28,320 » Well, it's in there, but we have folks sitting here that aren't too happy about 392 00:28:27,279 --> 00:28:31,360 how it's going. >> Okay. I'm not saying that they're not. 393 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:34,640 I'm saying what is there? There's three times that they have to go through 394 00:28:33,039 --> 00:28:37,919 before they get shut down. >> So, the third time they get shut down. 395 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,240 » Valid complaints. >> Valid complaints. 396 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:44,640 » Okay. >> Yeah. 397 00:28:40,799 --> 00:28:49,760 » So, it was it was put in there. >> So, okay. This will be a good discussion 398 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:53,919 when we bring it up again after we do the business license because it won't do 399 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:56,159 any good unless the business license definition is changed. 400 00:28:55,520 --> 00:29:00,399 » Right. >> So, um, very good. And I want to say 401 00:28:59,039 --> 00:29:06,799 thank you to the staff. You've been wonderful. The potluck was awesome. And 402 00:29:04,159 --> 00:29:12,799 I want to wish not only staff but all the residents merry Christmas and uh 403 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:17,039 we'll uh have a good new year and we'll start 2026 404 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:20,720 with all these issues. >> So good. 405 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:24,399 » Uh thank you all. Uh do I have a motion to adjourn? 406 00:29:22,799 --> 00:29:27,865 » Might I just say one thing? >> Nope. 407 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:33,440 » I wanted to thank you too for the [laughter] wonderful Christmas event. 408 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:36,559 You all went out to a lot of effort and really appreciated it. It was 409 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:42,799 » Thank you, J. >> All right, so do I. Motion to adjurnn. 410 00:29:39,919 --> 00:29:48,880 » Motion to adjurnn. Second. >> All right, Rich and Chris. 411 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:55,760 » Thank you very much. All in favor? I >> Any opposed? 412 00:29:51,919 --> 00:29:55,760 We're adjourned at 6:30.