>> mayor: I want to call to order the city council workshop for december the 4th. Would everybody please stand for
the pledge. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the republic for which it
stands, one nation under god, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. >> mayor: would somebody like to
lead us in a prayer or just have a moment of silence? [moment of silence] >> mayor: thank you.
okay. Mandy do you want to call roll. [roll called] the agenda for this meeting was
posted on the city's website on monday november 27th. 2023. The agenda was amended on
november 28th to add back-up to item 6b and on november 29th add 4d, 6c and back-up to 7a. >> mayor: there's an exit behind
you. The way we came in and also to your right if there's an emergency, those are the two
exits you try to take out. The next thing we will have public comments. Please limit them to three
minutes and address them to the chair. Anybody sign up, mandy. >> david porter.
>> good afternoon. Dave porter. I think that one of the most paramount issues of the council
or staff of dunnellon is [inaudible]. >> and all of the businesses that require their own
comprehensive plan. >> mayor: right. >> I would request that some time during this meeting that
maybe [technical difficulties] three problems with doing a resurface at the police department.
the first the weight of the fire trucks. 250s, 350s, 450s, 550s. Second problem is at the back of
the building it's already below grade. So you're going to add an inch and quarter and inch 23456 of
black top on top of it all of the water is going to go in the back door of the police department.
and they only cover it for three years. And to do where the water can drain out to the front of the
building and they can make it lower than the back door where the water won't go in the back door of the police department.
the third thing that the handicapped that the pd has now. It has a 2 percent slope per handicapped ada compliance.
it has to be completely flat. And to the handicapped parking spot be level and you won't have to do anything to that parking
lot for 20 years. >> if I might add if you only resurface that changes where you can take the funds from.
you -- it would either -- which I didn't highlight line 31 is your 6 cent gas tax reserve which is repair and maintenance
of or it would come from general fund unrestricted on line 37. >> mayor: okay. Is there any any engineering if
we do the same thing. >> no because they know what the drainage when they looked at it they already know where the
water has to flow. Right now everything is flowing to the fire department. That's why we're having a lot of
parking lot problems when it should be going from the back of the police department into the storm drain.
do we have any existing water or sewer lines under there that would be of concern? >> not that we're aware of.
everything is on williams street and pennsylvania. The water manager and all of the utility -- you've got overhead
utilities from williams street back to the pd but the water meter is right at the front door.
but we're in dunnellon. >> well, I remember when it was an alleyway when I was a kid, and when it was whenever we four
laned 41. I just wondered if there was anything in there with our fau friends.
>> I can double check. >> if we did have something in there it would be nice to take care of.
we did park avenue and wall net. And modernize the street from one end to the other. >> okay.
that's just a question. As far as I'm concerned I like the idea of doing it like it should be done and look to the
future. A 20-year existence of it, and the disabled parking I was not aware that was deficient.
also drainage if you don't drain asphalt pavement and you leave standing water you set up a problem.
>> every time it rains it goes to the back of the police department, and right at the fire truck.
the police department is higher than williams street. >> okay. I'm pleased with your analysis
and like I said the might have a concern about if there is possible there is something we could check on.
>> I can call until to locate -- >> some of the council members. >> mayor: I think that's what I'm worried about that exactly
stuff like that. Finding out what we don't do after we start spending money on the project.
I'm all for it. Don't get me wrong. I want to make sure we have our ducks in a row here.
>> okay. >> mayor: you have any questions. >> no.
>> mayor: I think we're all for it. To me if I'm going to spend $25,000 and it's going to last
five years, and $35,000 and it's going to last 20 to 30. >> the thing if I'd personally >> whatever your downside.
>> we'll be bringing back a contract once something is in place. Chad there are lines underneath.
water or sewer. >> we'll call and locate. Just to verify but. >> mayor: good deal.
>> I guess I'm a little confused. I agree with what's gone on. What's the next step.
we're going to get a contract value. >> I can do that tomorrow and they should have it within a
week. >> I'm not looking to rush. What would be our next step up here.
>> come back with the contracts. >> okay. Got you. And I guess mandy would that go
on the consent agenda or even need to be on the consent agenda. >> I would say that the contract
would need to be reviewed by the attorney before it comes to workshop. >> mayor: so you're going to do
all of the legwork on this, matt and we'll let andrew look at it. >> that sounds reasonable. >> mayor: if we can fix this
drainage problem we need to fix it. >> it's way past. >> council, I'll try to do a
budget amendment at the same time that the contract is presented to you. That way you approve the
contract. The budget is approved to use that reserve you would like me to use, and then it's a done
deal. >> cool. >> mayor: okay. All right.
next item is the florida department emergency management recovery obligation calculation program.
I'm not sure who put that on there. Who put that on there? >> that was ron.
yeah. There you go. Now I remember. >> a few meetings after we you
guys all had signed off on the statewide mutual aid contract for emergency management of. Then we came back and started to
work on a comprehensive operation plan for emergency management. Of a plan what this is what
we'll do in the case of emergencies. A lot of this has to do with the way that the fema reimburses.
you hire contractors et cetera et cetera. At times natural disasters. Over the decades with the
emergency management they've had problems with the way they reimbursed. So where we're at for the city
of dunnellon is we have to do a self-assessment. That self-assessment is about 132 questions ranging from the
alignment authority, to council to staff to our purchasing policies, how they're compliant with both federal, state and
local compliance and it's an evaluation if you will. Staff is currently working on that as they team to get that
answer because it has to be submitted by december 31st. Once that's submitted it will be reviewed by the florida
department of emergency management. Then they will come back and say hey we have questions we want
additional questions. Or we may ask you to change something or ask for further clarification.
that's what they call the abatement period. Right now where we're at is in the assessment.
we're finishing up that point and as of right now this is just to share you where we're at in that process when we come back
during the abatement process, we may be coming back to council asking for some changes in policies, and we have from jan 1
to march 31st to do that. Why is that important to the city of dunnellon? This process obviously -- what
the state of florida is looking for listen if you're compliant with all of the purchasing policies and we're going to give
you a numeric rating and that means when you say that you're submitted a bill to fema then they're going to pay it in a
much more timely fashion. In decades past sometimes fema reimbursed might take three, four, five years to recover that
money. We're talking about three, four, five weeks now. Their goal is to get it paid
within 30 days. That would be a huge benefit for the city. So that's where we're at.
any questions you might have. >> mayor: have you got all of the help you need to document all of this stuff?
>> yes. Jan and shelby have been helping me get this together. It's going really smooth.
now, when we get to the abatement process that may be different. It's going to break down where
we have to talk to some of the contractors and public works, and it may involve city council for different lines of
authority, et cetera. It may be we have some unofficial processes we have to document and maybe formalize.
>> mayor: okay. >> it's moving along very well. >> mayor: good. You all good.
>> I would add that you that's an excellent effort. The better we're aligned with our state requirements
especially during emergency situations because the funding as you said could stretch out for a great deal of time.
we would be depleting reserves in order to cover a major disaster. So I commend the effort many.
I think it's excellent idea. >> thank you. >> mayor: absolutely. All right.
you you good. >> yes. >> all right. Thank you, ron.
okay. Next item is police chief six-month evaluation. I know I did one.
did everybody else did one. >> yes, sir. I have that in the back-up folder.
I got that compiled this amp. I received evaluations from mayor dunnellon dunnellon, vice mayor inskeep, and wheeler.
and I've listed the compiled rating. If you all want to take a chance to review that we will publish
it with the city council meeting on monday, I'm sorry I can't get away. Out of a possible 50 points he
scored 47.92. This is a six-month evaluation so it's not linked to any type of merit increase.
but that would be linked to an annual evaluation. Per our policy he was due a six-month to assess his
performance which appears to be great. >> mayor: that's good. >> so you can sounds we're all
about on the same page too. >> all of the comments are similar. If you don't have any changes,
we can put that on the consent agenda for approval next week. >> mandy it might be because I got it in 38 but I don't see my
goals on there >> mayor: no you don't. I saw where you had some comments above.
here it is. >> got you. Cool. Thank you.
>> mayor: all right. Good deal. So you all good with putting that on the consent agenda.
that's good, mandy. All right. The next item is council agenda items we've added.
the next one was blue run park. We had all had some questions that we were looking at. And we wanted to submit to
marion county to get their input on those questions. Somehow I've just lost mine. And I believe this is a
summation of what we all put together. Right mandy. >> yes, sir.
>> mayor: things like how many people are put into the kp hole. How many tubes, how many kayaks, how many canoes, who pays the
can the p hole on a monthly basis. Lists all of the vendors that are using the equipment.
and properly identified with the marion county during. What is the total revenue of kp hole.
and if not why not. Why does marion county invest. What does marion county invest in blue run park on an annual
basis. How does it compare with the city and any commercial vendors using the kp hole.
would the county and handle percent of the expenses of blue run park. This is just a list of questions
we on the council decided to ask. I don't think any of us know how many tubes go into the river
every summer and what their total revenue is. And how it's spent. I say we need to get to this
couillard, and then discuss with them on these matters. >> I reviewed that list, and one item that might be important to
add is the security situation for the blue run park. The city of course we're at the end.
we're not at the beginning. So we had the people once they come out of the rivera and some of them are not quite the same
person when they went in the river. >> mayor: that's a good way to put that
>> and their attitudes are a little bit different. And we have to be concerned about the security for our
community. You mentioned that a lot of the information that's mentioned on the request is public
information. Public information. There is a way that we could work this so that its staff to
staff making the request. As far as the figures on the entrance of the park, who is entering the park, how many, the
variety as we said the kayakers with the tubers. This information is available and it's public record.
it can be requested as a public record and that way everything -- in my opinion the best way to approach something
like this everything we can achieve through a public record request from staff to staff is the way I would recommend we
approach that. And any items that would come before a judgment situation between the city council and the
county commissioners would be another step. In other words, as the mayor state we're trying to get
answers to these concerns. But I'd like to see to work through the staff and achieve the answers through a public
access of this information. So therefore when it actually works up through our staff levels and eventually hopefully
it will come into administration, and then go into a county commissioner city council situation, we both have
material to work with and we're not bringing it to the county commissioners before we have our groundwork laid.
that's something I would suggest we move forward. >> mayor: that sounds good. We can turn these questions into
a public information request. That's all we're going to do. >> that's the way I can submit. >> mayor: that's a good thing.
that way we know where that information exactly came from. We know all right -- I do know because I went up before I got
on the council and met with the kp hole lady that runs that. She actually provided it was two or three years ago a summary the
total tubes, and total kayaks. And so it's available. Public record would be the easiest way for that.
>> well it would be an item that would be best addressed through our police chief and through our county sheriff.
and I don't know whether we probably -- may want to get the freshwater marine patrol. That would be something that the
chief would noelle how to approach. Security is the key to everything we do in our
community and that is an issue we certainly want to provide for. I just thought but I would
recommend that mandy as you automatically let it go through the chief to assess the situation.
where it is now and where he thinks it will be in five years, and 10 years. That's just a suggestion.
I'm not trying to do the chief's job. >> mayor: that's a good point, walter.
it's also outlined in the blue run plan. It talks about the county is going to provide two people at
least every day during the busy season. >> last year or the year I first moved up here I understand they
instituted some new fee structure from kp hole. >> mayor: they did because of covid.
>> could we also find what their revenue once they started doing that. If they had an increase.
>> mayor: that was 2021. >> is the county making more money off of that. Are the roads deteriorating
because of the higher volumes of traffic. >> kp hole is not in the city. >> mayor: kp hole is in marion
county. It does impact our roads here in dunnellon 484. No luckily what they destroy is
marion county. When I went up there it was before covid. We reduced the tubes during
covid. Don't know if they've increased the number of tubes or change the rate they charge.
what we may want to do is ask for three years worth of information. That would take care of 2023,
'22 and '21. >> well, if council lehman wants to know what the revenue prior to the pandemic we'd need to ask
for 2019. >> just for information. >> significantly in 2020 and picked back up in 2021.
>> mayor: I think it went significantly way down. >> so you want '19 through '22 -- '19 through '23.
>> mayor: yeah. By the time they get it to us it will be 2024. >> they're all going to be over
there. If we can have a stable base maybe not this year but hey next year traffic is up.
>> mayor: all right. Got all of that mandy. >> got it. >> mayor: the next thing was the
east pennsylvania multi-modal project. I know tim you were working with everybody to figure this out.
and the tpo rob bombs to go speak with tracy straub. And she is at one point in her career he was the county
engineer, and now she's the boss over the county engineer. She's the assistant clerk. And she is extremely
intelligent. I mean everything good you could possibly deal with a person she was it.
mandy and I had a phone meeting with her last thursday. Day before I sent her seven of the major topics major issues of
we're seeing with this project. I won't read them all. Fgua concern about the eight-inch main on the south
side of the street. And fgu56789 has repeatedly high risk of that water main breaking once it's under heavy traffic.
that's the first one. The second one is a safety issue. With the way fgua and our city
staff that will have to maintain the right-of-ways. There's no refuge zone for them. They're going to be somewhat in
the way of traffic just to maintain them the way they're on there. The third one there's no
reasonable space for them to pull off the road. Probably a more important it's a very narrow residential area.
and then the last one I put down I believe it's going to create more congestion in an already congested area.
I sent those to tracy so she could review them before our talking. She's a bit frustrated with us.
we want the project. We want the project goes on hold for two years. It wasn't because dunnellon
wanted to put it on hold. Now there's been a resolution we're putting up concrete barriers for bikers.
and then after that dunnellon we want it, we want it. They put it on the list. And but there's $300,000 some
dollars invested into the engineering of this project. Naturally when we have hey we have these issues.
so that's how we started the conversation. Explained to her apologized but we're at the point where we see
what the issues are. And they're important enough that I understand the frustrating.
but the issues are important enough at least in my mind it doesn't make sense to go ahead with the project.
is all of the issues that just mentioned. So with that she said if there is a redesign if we have to
redesign then the city would have to pay for the redesign. Now she mentioned. When we're not looking to
redesign the whole thing. Actually with construction -- let me back up a little bit. If we do a redesign.
the city is going to have to come up with the money for the redesign. We need to communicate our cun
essential opportunities to fdot and tpo and naturally to her. We should also speak to our representative kathy bryant
first would be council consent. Speak with kathy bryant on that. Then based on that communicate in writing to fdot, tpo and
tracy. The way I understand the options we're looking at four options. Option 1 is proceed as planned.
option 2 scrap the entire project. Option 3 would be do the barrier portion on the rainbow river
bridge. Put the pedestrian and bike traffic. Continue doing the take off-ramp
into blue run park and re-stripe the south parking spots into a bike lane. The issue with that tracy had
with that, just re-striping this -- this whole thing is based on being a multi-modal trail.
she's not just by re-striping the parking spots into a bike lane that will meet the description of multi-modal.
basically we're just creating a bike path but not multi-modal path. With that option if we re-stripe
the lanes that would be the bicycle lanes, and walking pedestrians will have that sidewalk.
so with that that's when I said that the design for all of that for the re-striping is already complete.
so redesign would be a lot of significant dollars. >> did she give you an idea how much?
>> no. She's not a contractor. >> no. Kimley horne is the one that
designs this project. The only redesign is re-striping rather than doing all of the islands and the extend deck.
the fourth option if the multi-modal project. So we can't go to the state and make this happen because they
have all the criteria all of the licensing to work with the state. This may not meet the grant
criteria by just re-striping and creating a bike lane. Option 4 would be the same as option 3 but instead of
re-striping the bike lane it would be on don't do the islands. Don't do anything to the north
side. Take the south side parking spots, raise that area. Wring that construction over to
the existing sidewalk and turn all of that into a multi-modal path. So those are the four options
I'm seeing. Any redesign that needs to be done, there should be significant funds left over with
the amount of construction by putting in the islands, all of the other repaving and all of that.
that's where we're at. >> mayor: I forget 2 is. >> scrap the whole project. As planned scrap the whole
project and then a modification of the project as planned that that would not include any islands.
>> mayor: it still baffles me how we can get this far and not realize all of the problems with the water, sewer.
>> what they're saying -- >> they're not offering anything. >> it's just going working
totally on the parking spaces and the stop. >> plus putting the barriers on the bridge and takeoff down
to -- >> I was talking to people and that the only council was for the minimal project and then a
couple of councils they came back and said we wanted to do the biggest grandest project we can.
>> I'm not sure. >> mayor: all right. >> so if you want to digest we probably get rid of this.
>> then you turn right around and you start -- I think my biggest problem is taking up parking on there.
to me we don't have parking in this town. I hate to say it and I ride a bike and I ride a bike on blue
run trail. Why once you cross that bridge why do you want to go to the railroad track.
>> yes. >> mayor: then go to chamber of commerce. And nothing against julie.
now can definitely make that option 5. And I will. But just puts us at-risk of when
I say option 5 let me make sure I understand. Option 5 would be do -- put the barriers up on the bridge.
put the takeoff on blue run park. >> mayor: that hill is where the pedestrians are going from
swampy's. >> the issue may be like tracy none of that may happen because of the multi-modal definition
grant. But I'll put that out there. >> mayor: okay. >> I'll get this typed up.
I'll get it to mandy so she can get it to everybody. They're at 90%. And they're looking to put this
out to bid. And >> mayor: okay. Thank you.
>> yes, sir. >> mayor: for running this down. >> mr. Mayor, tim, when you spoke to them did they offer
anything besides they were completed 90% on engineering. Did she have a ballpark they would be moving on their end if
we had not presented an objection? In other words, what timeline were we facing with the project
before we got to this point with our council action? >> no they put out a schedule. Fdot was supposed to be august
23rd. Take august 23rd and fast forward to now that's how many months the planning is behind.
final plan submit -- final submitting to fdot was 9/23 and the bid specifications were supposed to go on 9/13.
that's what's running behind right now. >> so the whole process is where we are right now about four or
five months behind. >> yes, sir. >> so we're well within the span of creating this concern as far
as the project. >> I mean, is the project is delayed now this will simply add to the delay if that makes
sense. I'm not saying that's not acceptable for the county and state.
I don't know. >> okay. >> mayor: okay. If you could have that typed up
and sent out to us, and we can study it. Thank you tim forgetting that to us.
that's all I had. Mr. Inskeep you're up. >> I thought I just was. Mandy do you have the
spreadsheet for the christmas parade expense. All right. This is along the lines of the
two river music festivals. I was going to present this at the last council meeting. As we all know the christmas
parade has happened. And this is the deal we worked out with the chamber of commerce.
what the city's expenses are we supplied the public works barricades. The public works personnel.
set up the barricades, picked up the barricades, and matt did we have to buy road closure signs so we didn't incur that expense.
I tried to capture all of the city costs. So you're looking at the city will have invested $505.
but only $160 of that is budget money. The rest of it is in kind type of contribution.
actually with the update with matt we don't have the $160 now. The chamber expenses were going to be 845 with police department
and permit they paid. Then we worked out a partnering with the investment at 505. The investment difference 340.
split that in half. That's $140. Did the math and made it each would have $675 invested in it.
and so out of that $675, $363 minus $160 now would take a budget hit. >> mayor: 202.
>> the rest of was $312 to help out with the parade. So the to have this having this parade.
I'm not saying good, bad or indifferent. 675, 675. That's what it cost to have a
parade. >> so the police officers are paid for by the chamber. >> right.
>> that's out of the permit fees and things like that. >> correct. So apologize it's already the
fact. I totally blew it when I didn't bring it last meeting. If anybody has an issue with
that. Seemed like -- what my reasoning and I hate running around like a loose cannon.
this event is different than other commercial. This is truly the people of dunnellon that come to see this
parade and all of that. For $300 that could come out of council contingency to make up for santa in the park.
>> mr. Mayor. >> mayor: yes. >> I think it's commendable. I think it's commendable.
I can't think of a better time for our youth and families watching a parade in their own hometown.
I commend the effort to cooperate with the chamber of commerce and all of the kids and including our one and only high
school band and I saw many children that felt the same way. The budget item would be a blessing to approve if I had in
my pocket. Thank you. >> mayor: I agree. I think it was well attended and
there was an awful lot of people there which was great. >> okay. Personnel manual tuition policy.
where the personnel manual tuition paul is a and we experienced a little over a year ago.
my recommendation is that we need to change the verbiage because it wasn't clear in the personnel manual if an employee
goes for further education, and it gets paid for that upon receipt of their diploma or certificate, that they have to
commit to working with the city for two years. And the other thing I'd like to do is go back to the original
policy that got changed about a year ago, and not -- and a remove paying for mileage that we did there.
>> mayor: I totally agree. We had a policy very similar to where I've always worked. We'd pay for something that was
going to benefit you and us. But you had to commit to stay a certain amount of time. Because you were going to take
that to your new employer. And I totally agree with the mileage. That's just part of going.
I don't have a problem with that. >> consensus. We have can that go to a consent
agenda >> so we have to bring a resolution. Have to go on the regular
agenda. >> mayor: all right. Good deal. >> review project checklist.
mandy finally got it done. >> mayor: I think I got the original copy. >> she got the big stick out.
what's driving this is prior to sitting up I watched many meetings go on and I'm not picking on any one project.
changing all the lights. Dunnellon taking over the property lights in downtown, and changing all those out for solar
lights, and dunnellon would be responsible for maintenance, for anything not only the initial project but the cost going
forward. Pretty much what was presented at the time out of a brochure that gave showed a price of the
lights and showed a picture of the lights and a lot of speculation what it was going to cost.
and and pretty much the only amount was the cost of the lights. Because the assumption that
public works would do the insulation and all of that. When troy when the public works manager found out that in this
meeting that he was going to be responsible for putting in the lights, he was quite surprised, and then he was like okay wait a
minute I need information. And rightfully so. So again we only had a very tiny portion of this project.
not near enough to make a decision on. Not near enough to understand the project costs and the future
costs. The another problem how about electricians. Well you do need electricians
because you've got to determining the existing lights and abandon the electrical. When that number came in.
and then it grew maybe we can get how many residents and businesses to pay for it. It turned into a huge mess.
I I've seen a few of them go like this. Again with my background I was a bit surprised.
so when I was coming on I wanted to create something that was similar when we created projects and ran projects.
a very simplified what I used to do. What you have in front of is exactly that.
the objective the project objective has to be listed, the budget information has to be put in.
the scope of the project has to be put in. The schedule of the project has to be put in.
the required personnel and it is city departments, it is county departments, and state departments, contractors.
what equipment and what material is everybody upon for. And then the same thing for permits.
who's getting what and doing what. Mandy, I don't see the second sheet the budget sheet.
>> are you talking -- >> mayor: here's the budget. >> attachment a. >> okay.
I didn't print attachment a. There's an attachment a that goes with this. >> it's up on the screen now.
>> attachment a would be part of this. It outlines -- we want to capture what our employee costs
are when we do a project. We have the city costs, and then the contractor cost and then we get down to the total cost.
when a project is presented to us this is filled out so that we have something to look at, and when the project is approved by
a council we fill out a final version of this and then I'm also looking to make somehow officially through resolution or
whatever, I spoke with mandy briefly on this, so that it has to be done. So in the future no matter who's
sitting up here or who's coming and going this document has to be filled out so that there's -- two things if people has to fill
out a piece of paper and sign it they're going to have ownership. It would be good for record what was it at that point in time.
we can take out this document and see what the basis was for a project. So I was looking to make this so
that it's required when presenting a project and then a final version is also required and then documented on record.
when the council makes a decision on a project. Kind of what you alluded to with your question rex.
I thought son wanted the most expensive version type of thing. It makes it more businesslike than what we've done in the
past. >> okay. >> so with that said mandy I don't know where to go with
this. >> one of things we did discuss was adopting this form policy resolution to make it formal.
you could adopt a resolution creating a policy that it has to be used. That's really the only way I see
going forward two, three, four years from now you have staff changes, and council changes and it doesn't get lost.
and you can refer to it that way. >> so does that mean you'll have to write up a resolution.
can't see when she's rolling her eyes at me. >> she wasn't rolling her eyes she was pulling out a knife.
>> it should be a very simple resolution. >> andrew do you have any input there.
simple resolution. Staff can handle that. >> we can take a look at the next workshop.
>> next month is fine. >> mayor: I agree with this. It seemed like we found the lights.
we found way signs. We started well it's going to cost this and by the time what it was going to really cost the
number had grown three or four time. Because nobody had filled out something like this.
I think it's great man. Glad you did this. Now your unimproved roads. >> we've got a bit of surprise
out in the dunnellon heights with a road that -- I mean not even on the gis. But when we go back and look in
records it is shown that at some point there's going to be a road there. Now we've got a homebuilder that
got permitted to build a house but he gives us a call my concrete truck got stuck. And this particular area is all
just sugar sand. There's never been an existing road there. So got ahold of andrew to see
what we're required to do, and at some point we do have to create something because people have access to their properties.
the issue we don't have anything in the budget. Future budgets are certainly not looking good.
and chad reached out. But reached out to kimley-horn and kimley-horn sent back a couple of documents from the
county and the state on how to do a basic type gravel road. And that's all of the further that we're at with this thing.
>> mayor: which means you've got to dig out the sand and put in a base, and do something on that. >> then we've got to maintain.
so right now let every body know the most expensive roads is in the dunnellon heights. This year I think last year it
was $22,000. We don't spend on any road within the city. So the whole dunnellon heights
thing I'm not sure what happened there. But we've got people complaining about living on a gravel road
and things that come with a gravel road. The last you can't throw pavement down.
you have to have storm assessments and all of this engineering et cetera et cetera. It's pushing over fast numbers
went over $10 million very fast. >> mayor: of course that didn't include a road that we don't normally do like this one.
>> correct. >> mayor: because this road wasn't on there. >> andrew, if you could help out
a little bit what our obligation is. >> I'd be happy to. When a city and the original
plat from 1950s made a public dedication for dunnellon heights was in the county. But whenever there's an
acceptance upon the entity making the acceptance and any of the successors to make right-of-ways.
and make sufficient maintenance. But to the extent they have been accepted they do need to be improved so that they are
useful. >> right now one of the major issues is emergency vehicles. I don't know how an emergency
vehicling going to get back to any of these week. >> I was thinking that their construction was on stop because
they can't get access to it. They've come quite a ways. Talking with keel's they've got their slab if inspection.
what my understanding is -- this is a san angelo road south, north. It would be north that's right.
we need to get a cost estimate for what it's going to take to do anything. That's going to be some
engineering in there. Usually my first question where is the money coming from. What time frame does the city
have to react to this? And will I touched real quick on future budgets are not looking better.
they're looking worse. This upcoming fiscal budget coming up in may with $279,198 less with this one% sales tax
for the 24/25 budget. The only reason we're getting anything right now we have -- right now our revenue is
$372,000. That's going to be $279,000 less next year. The only reason we're not losing
the 372 we have one quarter in 2024. That expires at the end of december in 2024.
so for future years so next year we're going to be planning with $279,000 less. We can't create a budget.
I'm hoping it gets through. It's going to be $372,000 less revenue for roads. I'll leave it at that.
>> mayor: yep. No, the research that andrew's firm did I read very carefully. And it's very clear once you
assume a platted subdivision, you've got to make it at least operational for whatever is there, and I guess it hasn't
been a problem until somebody builds a house down there. >> to add to this problem do you have a map for the rest of the
unimproved roads, mandy. I believe kelly you supplied this. >> I did.
>> so if I'm incorrect somewhere just tell me. I believe that the red markings where we have the rest of the un
improved roads in the city. >> correct. Minus a couple that are not showing but they're short
sections. >> mayor: that's out 40. >> 40 going west. >> mayor: right.
and then over in the box springs area. Wow. >> that's really the 9 island
cove area which is conservation but there are properties. >> mayor: I know there's more than one road -- I think there's
two in dunnellon heights. They're over here and they run underneath those power lines. >> this is the duke energy
easement and this is north san angelo, and this is north san angelo and both of these roads are unimproved.
in addition to those two kelly identified sections of 3rd avenue and second avenue that are on the map as platted
streets but they're vegetation. >> mayor: right. >> so the immediate issue we have a house going up in
dunnellon heights. Emergency vehicles can access their property. >> mayor: we need to address
that first. What you're showing us there's more to be addressed. >> mr. Mayor the lines up there
the second avenue line, that actually would go through and would come out on the loop that comes out by the library.
that property was an old muck mine. And the residue from that that muck mine is in there.
it would be a major major effort to be able to build anything in there including a road. >> because of e.p.a. Stuff.
>> mayor: where the road makes a circle and comes down. >> that's frankie emeritus. I lived on second avenue.
I didn't know what street I lived on until they put that sign up when I was a kid. >> mayor: yeah
>> it would go through that old muck mine. That's why it was never considered in the past to build
on it. >> mayor: this one that you're talking about has got a house. >> the problem is there's other
lots. Four or five people come up >> exactly. >> doing a special bond for that
area to pay for the roads. >> I'm saying yeah yeah that is a question. Where is the money come from.
can we do -- go ahead jan. Thank you for helping. >> right now at this point in time the only funds you have to
be able to pledge for a bond issue is your ad valorem. Not recommended. >> correct.
>> because of the green light debt. All of your excess taxes are pledged to satisfy that debt
>> got you. >> if the one cent sales tax money is renewed that you could pledge.
right now you don't have the option to bond. To go out for ad valorem. That is dangerous territory
there. >> okay. >> so that's where you're at. >> before it slips my mind, so
that's what we have in front of us now. When I look out to the future, we need something so that this
never happens again. So somebody can't buy a chunk of land and carve it up. People buy property at a reduced
price because they're on a gravel road or no road, and then expects other property owners to pay for them.
are lining their pockets, and then expect everybody else to build a road instead of everything I just said.
so somehow, there's got to be a way so that this can never happen again. Where somebody buys it up, and
be carves it. >> non-platted are lands that are replanted. In the case new development you
have the plot. And you have the ability to require certain dedications. Maybe future roads.
where the city is going to get the money it needs for the infrastructure. Or in the case there are private
roads. So you know, historical issues are more of a concern than going forward.
>> let me ask this andrew. >> is that a law that that can't happen or if there's three of us up here for whatever reason
agree to let this thing scenario happen. Is that a possibility? >> well you'd be talking about a
subdivision. Whenever you had impact fees and everything in place. To make sure you have the making
payments for anything that the city would construct. If impact fees aren't updated it's much more useful.
and if and they're not covering the cost of the infrastructure coming in there there could be some problems.
any increase in impact fees is supported by a study. So council decisions can create or be a factor in creating some
gaps and provision of infrastructure. That is a possibility. But of course that again we're
talking about new infrastructure as opposed to extremely old infrastructure. Almost to a point that the
infrastructure doesn't exist anywhere. >> okay. I've got to digest that answer.
thank you. >> andrew I read your review of the circumstances, from what I read the opinions indicate we
are responsible for providing access to that property. Reasonable access. >> correct.
>> so that's the bottom line. We don't have the leeway other than complying with. >> that's my question also.
correct me if I'm wrong. We don't know there's a time frame. Right now we don't have anything
in the budget. So do we budget this for next year. Is that acceptable.
now, that's the business side of me speaking. The human side of if there's an emergency and an emergency
vehicle can't get out there that's bothersome for me. If we can put this off for a budget year.
>> at what point does business not matter. >> yes and no. We could get in a situation
where he wants to enforce our responsibilities upon us, and that could very well happen because as andrew has indicated
through his recommendation and his assessment that we are responsible, so our legal council has advised us of such,
first of all ladies and gentlemen I do live in dunnellon heights and this is about a block from my home.
it has no interest to my family or whatever. I can't anticipate I'd need to use this street.
I don't think it's a conflict. To provide access to that individual property would be the key.
is that not true andrew. We're not obligated to connect it to that road. Is it in fact, we can provide
access which is I think it's two or three lots deep into that street. >> you know.
there of course is a legal approach that a practical approach. Per law when we look at plats
and if there's acceptance of any improvements of the plat it's an acceptance of the structure entirely.
the city is under a legal obligation to provide access throughout the entire plat. From a practical standpoint
obviously there are limited resources available. I think that's a discussion to have, what provides reasonable
access, and reasonable maintenance and there's a little bit of leeway and in consultation with emergency
services that there is access for that property. But understanding constraints and so forth what becomes
reasonable and what becomes liable. That becomes a sliding scale. Again I think that's a
conversation I think with emergency and any type of city resource or other service resource that needs access to
the property to satisfy that reasonable access requirement because there's not a clear definition of that.
>> with that said if there is a situation out there and it requires an emergency vehicle doesn't happen, and something
catastrophic happens, and we're holding off because it's not in this year's budget. As jan just showed the different
reserves we have a 1 million this, a million that. I don't think it's going to work out very well.
I'd rather prevent that the catastrophe. So with that said looks like what we need to do is like
kimley-horn or something to do some engineering, et cetera et cetera. Start going down this path
unless somebody -- I mean I'm coming up with this on the fly. Can you help me mandy. >> anybody that has a path to go
I'm all ears. >> we do have council contingency funds. Depending how much it would cost
you could use those money to at least get this started. And it's budgeted, no budget amendment would be necessary.
I would just transfer money to the department where the engineering is actually occurring like roads and
streets. Depending on how much it costs a way to get started. You could still do budget
amendment from other sources. Because this is going to be I believe a capital project. I don't know if if that's the
way you may go. >> keep reach out to kimley-horn. Have a meeting with kimley-horn
and figure out what the next steps are. >> mayor: we've got to figure out from them -- sit down and we
need a fwuge we did the whole road, did part of the road. You guys look at this and tell us how much it's going to cost
in the engineering, and how much it's going to cost. First off when somebody moves into that house, we've got to
have an answer or the city is going to be opening themselves up to liability. I think we've got to come up
with a solution and we need to start working on that now. But that tells me within a year they're going to be there and
we've got to figure this out quickly. >> could we put something now to -- if somebody comes down the
road and says hey I better move now I better start buying land so the city is obligated. They made the people pay $12,000
to run the power in. We could put those assessment what it's going to be. Tell them up front when they
apply for a permit. They're going to have to pay for $20,000. >> when it comes to assessments
you've got -- I mean like -- >> looking at a develop you are you say you have an impact fee. >> you have to have a study done
for an impact fee. >> homeowner would be responsible for an impact fee. But yew got to have the study
done. But I don't know how long that would take. And then that study would
provide you with a dollar amount that you would assess that property. Just like the fire assessment
years ago. But it's got to be defensible in a court of law. >> I understand that.
I'm trying to figure out if two or three come up. >> I don't think you can arbitrarily give us a $10,000
deposit because you're going to build. >> mandy, you're not going to like this --
>> I'm the one that took -- sorry. So public works will work with kimley-horn to start moving the
physical project forward and see what it looks like. Can you work with jan and whomever to see what we can and
can't do as far as assessments. >> uh-huh. >> do we need to talk about maybe at the next meeting taking
some money and moving it into the budget. To see when it comes up hey the money is there.
>> so we have a better idea what we're really talking about. One of the ideas just throw some lime rock so they can get to it.
if there's a problem we're liable. >> same thing with the parking lot.
>> mayor: okay. You're going to create a problem there. Now
>> let's go ahead and do 6. >> mayor: we're going to go to 6a which is the parking agreements.
>> excuse me, mayor. >> mayor: uh-huh. >> the vice mayor had moved the council vacancies to after
agenda 6. >> you want to get through number 6. >> yes, ma'am.
>> mayor: all right. So we need to look at ord2023-02. Which is a parking agreement.
I read through it. I didn't see any problems with it. Did anybody have a problem with
it? >> I read through it but I'm not understanding what issue the changes fix.
>> there are only a couple. It corrects some codification when the land development regulations were rewritten.
I can show you -- >> mayor: is that what the underline stuff is. >> yes.
>> so it's just to fix conflicting language. >> mayor: to comply with the changes in the law
>> what happened in 2018 the city had hired a planner to draft a resolution. To make changes and that was
voted on by council, and those changes were not incorporated into the final ordinance that was signed.
coming through this staff was made aware of that. And supposed to be codified. So these changes while they
really are part of the code and were instructed by council to be included were never included. So these corrections fix the
code so it's the way it should be. I do anticipate once the city has its community development
running a little bit smoother there are a lot of errors that kelly and staff have identified. This is one of many glitch to
fix the code to the way it should be. The >> mayor: I read through it.
I thought we were just correcting something. It looked fine to me. >> anybody have a problem with
it. >> I do not. >> this did go before the planning commission last month
and they did recommend approval and so you'll have your first meeting on the 13th. And your final public hearing
and final reading will be in january. >> mayor: okay. Good and deal.
want to go to the next one. Ord2024-01 which is the mobile vending or basically food trucks.
I only had one comment. On line 30 we talk about highway 41 corridor and county road 484 coreler.
then when we flip over to -- it comes up again. Here it is. It's on line 85.
it says u.s. Highway 41 which is the same but then it's say 44 it says east pennsylvania. To me those ought to be the
same. It needs to say east pennsylvania or it needs to say 44.
>> does this mean they can't have a food truck. >> mayor: what has changed the original was we were only going
to put food trucks on 41. And then we went back and on 41 it has to be 300 feet setback. On 484 or east penn it has to be
a hundred setback. >> it's not a setback of and it needs to be to the center line. But in the body of your
ordinance you're only allowing it on east penn, not west penn. There's nowhere for a food truck appropriate to be on the west
penn. That's why we're providing for both of the corridors, and andrew may have some suggestions
how to better identify that. >> mayor: the west end is in the historic district >> on east penn outside of a
special event. As being part of a special event. >> how about we had a month we
had somebody wanting to put a food truck up on west penn on one of the lots they purchased out there.
>> it wasn't on the west penn. It was on the corner of illinois and 41. It's a vacant undeveloped
commercial property. That's also outlined in this ordinance. >> just so I'm clear it just
says that if somebody opens a piece of land over in the historic district and they're right by the road would they be
able to get the affidavit. >> not if it a vacant property. >> no. But wait one of the store
owners. Crazy chicks they wanted to have their usual thing. >> it does not extend that
direction. So the ordinance does not allow the food trucks to go. So when you have a food truck
there the food truck there has to be adequate parking for the business and for the food truck. >> mayor: right.
if you read all this it's going to have a certain amount of parking. You can't put up tables.
okay. I get what you're saying mandy because when I read this, I know what this means.
you don't want it on the west penn and that's how you codified. >> mayor: well that was the only
thing I had with it. 9 rest was fine with me. >> do you have anything. >> no I'm good.
>> it will go to planning in january, back to you in february. >> mayor: the only thing I
mentioned to you I saw a food truck on east penn all weekend long. Since we don't have an ordinance
I guess that's fine. The last one is ord2024-02. This was the animal. Got it.
and we made some changes. We made it so that it's got to be in the b zone. Kelly.
>> that's correct. It's commercial -- well animal rescue organizations allowed in b3 and b4.
as well as setting the limitations to residential -- residents not allowing more than 4 dogs and more than 4 cats more
than the age of 4 months. >> mayor: they had was that added. >> that is under the definition
of the animal rescue organization on bottom of page 2. >> mayor: all right.
I'm good with that. >> this is all goes to planning in january. You won't see it again until
organization, as well as setting the residences not allowing more than four dogs and four cats over 6 months of age within the
city limits. >> mayor: did we add anything about -- because I had mentioned it proven they were a qualified
501(c)(3) and qualified. >> that is on page 2. >> mayor: all right. I'm good with that.
are you good with it? >> yes, sir, I'm good with it. You won't see this again until february.
>> mayor: thank you, folks for bearing with us. We got through the agenda, now we're going to go back to the
vacancies on the council. Sorry for that, but I think like tim said, I think it's good you all hear some of the things
we're dealing with. So you can understand where you're going or what you're fixing to jump into.
all right. You all want to start them in any particular order? Does it matter to you?
>> I'm good with anything. I kind of put them in the order in which we had the people apply, and adam, since you were
the first one that applied, do you want to stand up and reeducate us on your background and what you bring to the city?
>> mr. Mayor, mr. Vice mayor, city councilmembers. I'm a retired -- in my 20 years of service in the federal
government, where we've had employees up around 7,000 people businesses and policies, that would impact budget, safety,
moral. So as I read some of the papers talking about the decision of the council last time, I want to
put out there, I do have experience in the federal government, working with people, employees, and people we
represent. I once served korea, where we covered the whole peninsula, from the board border of north
korea. I was responsible for the equipment -- if I could get on to the council -- organizational
planning. As I said, I listened to the council meetings, I'm excited to hear what you all have to say.
I have spent a lot of time thinking of the decisions that were made. The roadway.
a lot of great concerns. Traffic distance. But you know, it was a plan -- the same with a one time --
[ inaudible ] if I was on the council, I would like to bring forward ideas >> mayor: okay.
you all have any questions? >> maybe just a comment. The reason we're looking in the past is because the past
decisions are raising their ugly head in our laps. We want nothing better to do than to move into the future
stuff. But when we have the budget things that come up, when we have the road problems come up,
when we have the police department issue that happened, when public works, that whole scenario that happened, between
public works in the past. We got a lot of stuff dropped in our laps that are the result of, in my mind lack of oversight.
lack of oversight and pushing people -- people wanting to push through pet projects that do not, that are not in the best
interest of the majority of the taxpayers, and if I can read this real quick, this is not just to you, adam, this is what
I was going to start out with. Everyone who applies needs to understand this city's financial and staff constraints.
too many people have grandiose ideas with no concept of what our constraints are. First thing everybody must ask
themselves is, how is it going to be get paid for. You just heard how we're going to have less revenue in the
future. And so -- we must ask themselves, how is it going to get paid for, and who's going to
do it. Those are the two basic things for anything, money and people. And then I'm going to lead on,
that is going to kind of explain what I started out with, we're presently cleaning up one mess after another, from years of
council's pet projects and ideas that were not vetted enough, while there was very little oversight on our departments.
so we don't have a choice -- when there's no oversight at the police department, we find out it was operating noncompliant
after everybody left, but to take that on, and I'm not going to get into the details of all that --
>> mr. Vice mayor, that decision has already been made. I'd like to move past that our police chief and lieutenant --
we've moved forward on that, as you sit here -- [ inaudible ] I get it, I understand it,
that's part of any organization, part of any business. The last thing you just told me, I appreciate you trying to
educate me. That's business 101, you have finance constraints in every organization.
you have ideas that were good. I understand why you say that. As a constituent, quit kicking the can what you did 10 years
ago. >> the can -- >> when did the root thing come up?
when did that come up? >> the road thing, it came up weeks ago. >> when was it put into effect,
2018? >> oh, the things that said the plats. >> 1950.
>> no, the mobile road. >> yes. >> 2018. And we're in 2023.
we're at 90% -- you've already said we spent money toward it. >> I'm not following your point. >> my point being, you're
spending more money toward the idea. Your idea is good. Where is your data.
I'm hearing your concern, your concerns are good. You presented them to this council a couple times, where is
the data being presented. >> what data. >> the data of the concern, the study, the congestion --
>> I put that out, the congestion is, 12,000 cars, vehicles per day, okay, from a traffic study.
and after ua came into this meeting, last meeting, expressed their concern about the water mains.
I sat in the meetings when fgua expressed their issues and other ones, now we have gotten to the point where there are enough
issues that have been discovered through the planning process, that we need to take eye look at this project.
nowhere am I saying we're spending more money, you're putting words out there that were not done.
here's -- I can tell you, I can wrap this up with you. >> the plan, do we not have to invest more city funds into that
1234. >> we have -- >> probably invest less funds. >> yeah.
>> because we're note going to do all that destruction. >> we have to draft the plans, right?
>> modify. >> modify, and we don't. We don't know what that looks like yet, we're going to be much
less construction with the modified version, so there's going to be out of this $5 million, there's going to be a
lot of that money left over, that could pay most of the plans are already done. The only thing we're talking
about here is, that would be different outside of the plans would be restriping the parking spots, I'm going to cut to the
chase -- and I wasn't going to do this, but here's my problem, this seat is a three-year seat, except at -- I had a
conversation with mandy, because I was confused on all these seats up here. My -- I thought that -- whoever
gets in this seat, is here for three years. >> no. >> I got corrected on that.
>> that seat comes up for election in november of next year. >> that's what that paper is,
it's very important. I thought the same thing you did. >> right, and I even thought
that your seat was good for three more years, but in november of next year it comes up.
>> every seat up here, except yours comes up in move. >> that's my understanding as of today.
now, I'm going to tell you, adam, the deal is up here, there are four of us that are going to vote to put somebody in a
council seat, rather than however many people are being elected that would typically vote, so my opinion is, we can't
make a mistake, because we've sat here for years, and seen a lot of good things on council, and we've seen a lot of horrible
things. We just lost $11,000 last year to a shade shelter, this, that and the other thing.
I wasn't going to go in this space, but for me, you are a no, and you're a no because of your response at the council meeting,
looking for candidates, is exactly the opposite of what I would expect from a leadership position.
instead of explaining where you could help. You chose to give us a lecture on our word.
this is the exact behavior I'm not looking for. We've had enough drama in this city for years and years and
years, I want people that are going to come up here and they're going to tell me, they're going to roll up their
sleeves, take on a road project, they're going toe figure out how we can get grants and all the stuff that the city needs much I
haven't heard that, the only thing heard was I my integrity is getting scorched. And again that's where I'm at.
any questions? >> mayor: thank you. All right. Art jones?
>> hello, everybody. You all know me, I love the rainbow river. I see nothing better than the
rainbow river being protected. It's been in decline for a long time [ inaudible ]
people could water ski down it, it was all beautiful. There was no algae. I hear those concerns, and the
nice thing I bring to the table, I saw what happened down in crystal river. Crystal river, they had those
concerns too, but nobody did anything until it got so bad, it was nothing but algae down there.
so bad, they're getting ready to close down hunter's creek park. Danger if you swim in this water, you will get a rash on
your skin. When I got there, it was like, wow! Is anybody doing anything?
the answer was no, but somebody should. I got in there with my rake and started cleaning it up.
and I got rotary to help me. It started to snowball. If you're able to clean up the area -- we were able to save
three sister's springs. I want to see the same thing happen here, this is a beautiful river I like it when people come
out and clean up the beach. I was able to get a grant, let's do a pilot project. Let's see if we can improve the
lorain bow river a little better than it is. My goal is to get the river to the point where we've restored
it, planted the grass and plants other there, so we don't have to spray herbicides in it. I know people told me I
shouldn't call herbicides poison, but it is, it poisons the plants. We don't have an alternative to
maintain the river and keep it open. We proved we have an alternative, expensive.
it's an expensive alternative. We've done it down in crystal river, proven successful. We're getting the money out from
tallahassee, which we should. Tallahassee is stepping up to the plate and joining us. I'd like to see the same thing
happen here. Go up to tallahassee, asked them for help, we got that $1.8 million grant for the project
going. We're in the process of getting it going. Me being on the council, that's
going to be my big focus. I am glad someone is in charge of roads. I don't know if we have a
liaison nor the river, that's going to be my focus, but we have to look at whatever issue I can, what's fair, what's going
to be beneficial to everybody. For the aquatic manager. They'd like to take some pressure off the upper head
strength, maybe we can look at blue run park and how we can get a little better access through grants and stuff, we take some
of the pressure off the upper river. Some ideas to explore. >> mayor: I want to ask you a
question. I know all about the rake, one rake at a time, I think. You're all over that.
one question I have about the river, because I live on the river, is in your mind, do you think the number of tubes,
kayaks and boats on the river is high, low or about right? >> I hadn't really thought about that.
at times it seems like there's too many tubes at one time, and that's -- >> mayor: I should have said
during the summer. Right now, there's nobody on the river. >> right.
and the important thing is that -- maybe the city could do is -- I don't know if it's possible, but if you stop the
motorboats from going up river, when all the tubers are coming down, that would make sense. So I any if we work with the
state -- so I think if we work with the state department and fix some of that, okay, no -- that's probably scattered -- and
also maybe providing extra access or an exit point at the state park >> mayor: all right.
okay. >> I just want to say, I have -- I understand and totally respect everything you do at the river,
we've talked many times about the multimodal project. How do you feel about the other problem we've got tonight with
how we're going to finance the roads or what we're going to do with the roads, because a lot of this job is more than just the
river. You begin to see it's a lot of things moving together. So how do you feel about the
expenditure we may have to make with the roads in order to provide service. The people that were obligated
to that we hadn't planned for. >> I think we can look at getting some help from tallahassee for that.
with grants, part of the -- one of the beautiful things we have, small municipality, a city, is, when we go up there, we are a
city. And tallahassee loves small towns. They'll help us, we just have to
make some good contacts up there, put in some legislative appropriations. Talk to senator perry, ralph
massulo, see if we can get legislation appropriation to help us, they don't want to see us die.
>> with what rex just mentioned, the river -- both rivers, I should say, you know, they are jewels, they are jewels, and
they have to be protected. Wally's not here now, but when his mom and dad had their place here, he spent a lot of time on
that river when he was a kid, I did too. >> as you mentioned, we could water ski, do this, do that.
all those things of gone. They're all gone, they're note coming back. So we're not going to look back
and talk about too much of the old days, but it is a reference in my mind what that river looked like when I was a kid.
so I don't lose the perspective of what I do when I was a kid, when I see it now. I have a comparison of --
wally, I just mentioned when you were a kid, spending time at your mom and dad's place on the river.
>> mayor: right. >> you experienced a sight that you can't even describe now. >> mayor: no.
>> what I was getting at is, as rex mentioned, we were a multifaceted with the decisions we have to make for our city.
it's transportation, it's relationships with our community. Our civic organizations,
everything that ties our community together. >> right. >> what I would hope is your
advocacy on the river is commendable. And a wonderful asset for this community.
it's an as its to me to hear your opinions and your approach of our river. But I would hope as you
mentioned -- you want to venture into other operations in the city. I think that would be key to
service in the city. >> I was very concerned about -- [ inaudible ] it's not because I live on
pennsylvania avenue or have a business there, I'm also a member of the chamber, and what's this going to do -- right
now, dunnellon is parking lot rich, we'll go from parking lot rich to parking lot poor, we heard people come in here, they
promised us, up know, think weren't going to take away those parking spots, if they were, that was a nonstarter.
it's good that you get the people in here, you know, I want to get involved, for sure. >> that would be the main
interest that you -- and I see you share that, it's important to me, and it's important to this council.
>> I was in rotary for years. Rotary is all about what's fair. >> that's what we want, we want to bind our community.
>> right. >> that's our goal. >> make this river shine. Pass it on better than we find
it. >> you answered my concerns. >> mayor: have you asked any? >> no.
my issue is, I think you have too much special interest with one rake at a time. I'm against special interest.
everything needs to be looked at. We've spoken a few times, I'm not in agreement with your plan
for the river. When I speak to the fwc biologists, they are not in agreement either.
I speak to them many times -- >> who is that? >> the last one we spoke with was the young man at the
cleanup, at the -- I spoke with bruce all the time before bruce retired. I don't remember their names,
but the young lady and young man that was at -- >> I don't remember his name. >> when we did the last cleanup.
they stated there that one of the worst things we can do is rake up the hydrilla, it's going to come back way more prolific,
and the level bits that go down stream are going to plant themselves and make the situation worse in other areas.
that could be he said/she said stuff, and I've been around since 1996 on that river, all right?
so I've seen since then -- and when I hear things like the boat traffic. Right now, the boat traffic is
the only thing -- where the boat areas are, are pretty much the areas -- I live at the south end of the river, that's what keeps
everything consistently at the level it's at right now. They gave you the pilot project to do the one rake at a time in
your canal. That canal used to be full of wild shiners and other stuff, now that the one rake at a time
happened, the hydrilla has grown back so full and you called the fwc to put more poison in that area.
I have a problem with the hypocrisy is too strong of a word, but I think you get my gist here.
>> we've had this conversation before. You go against what the fwc biologists recommend, what they
said would happen is absolutely what did happen. To me, the first pilot project in your canal failed, you asked
for herbicides. Let's talk about crystal river in homosassa. That's a whole different animal.
the areas taken down to white sand, I understand they weren't habitable because of the -- whatever was in there, but once
they got took down to white sand, those areas are now party coves, you drive by those areas and you can't put another boat
in there, the wildlife has been displaced with people. I heard many of your lectures coming in here, and you started
out with, for the manatee, we're going to clean all this up -- >> mayor: can I make a point of order?
we're assessing what they say, and it's turned into an opinion thing about the river. I understand what you're saying,
but you understand what I'm saying? >> no, because he is pitching the rainbow river, he is
pitching his one rake at a time, he got the opportunity toe pitch that, and I'm going to counter it.
it's important because it says many things about character, et cetera, et cetera, to me. I'm not the one that chose to go
this route. So you did everything, you vacuumed it up, turned it into party cove.
the manatees ate the old grass, the solution was to put cages over the grass, I went down with and looked at the area, nothing
is growing in those cages. No photo synthesis is occurring. The storm surge wiped out most of the eel grass.
you're speculating it will come back, but I'm not comfortable is with that speculation. >> your idea that we're going to
remove pressure at the north end of the river, we're going to create a swimming hole, probably outside blue run park and the
bridge, and we're going to put more people in that area? That makes no sense to me at all.
now we're going to start a war with the motorboats. The kayakers hate the boats, the boats hate the kayakers.
the motorboat thing, I'm stunned to hear. I know there are people that live on the south end or the
north end of the river are pushing for that. They're pushing for that because they don't want people in front.
most people that are for vacuuming out the river, are the property owners that want the white sand and air bnb's and
such, they would love to have a white beach in front of their properties. You start on the rainbow river,
it's all about the otters. I questioned you, we take it down to home sand, we're going to have one party place after
another where there's white sand and displace the critters. Your comment back was, I am for people over animals, that
doesn't connect with me. And -- so I just -- >> it's all right, it's okay. >> I see it's too much special
interest for me, with all these other issues we have, and I think you're going to -- I think that you're going to be more so
pushing your project, that I adamantly disagree with, I think it's going to ruin the wildlife, it's not going to help it, it's
going to increase the congestion and safety issues we have on the river now. That's where your focus is
growing to be. >> I understand your skins, I appreciate you -- >> I'm a no vote.
I don't -- we've had enough conversations, and heated ones, I don't dislike you, I think you believe you're doing the right
thing, I don't. That's neither here nor there. But I think the city has a lot of problems, and I think the
organizations that are in place, the fwc that has all the data on the river and all that you've convinced people that you're a
scientist, they think you are, not that you've convinced them. I want too go with the biologists, the scientists and
the data, and again, I'm done, rex, too much special interest for me. >> can I respond?
>> absolutely. Don't sell your project, though, but -- >> I'm sorry, what?
>> don't go back to selling your project. >> we've heard it all. >> correct inconsistencies, when
you say that by raking up the hydrilla you spread it more, the hydrilla is already super saturated in rainbow river, it's
everywhere. By removing hydrilla, you're taking it out in shifts, there's pieces floating out.
there's already hydrilla down there, super saturated. I'm not sure if you went meant the one rake at a time failed,
we tried raking it out, we got quite a bit of it out. We couldn't rake it out -- we started, it was already super
saturated, the hydrilla. It was already full. Fwc has been treating the hydrilla for 35 years.
we don't like it, but if you don't treat it, it takes over, you can't get a boat through there.
it's not that I'm a hypocrite, I told this to fwc, I asked if they not use super k when I saw those palmer jelly's, they said
it's an important part of our toolbox, and we really need to use it. Okay.
I'm not going to be out there with signs or this or that, I want to work with the state agencies, and what happened in
kings bay, give us a reason that we don't have to use herbicides. We did, we put our backs into it, we cleaned it out.
yes, we started cleaning the swimming area for the kids, and it helped the aquatic life also. Yeah, I'm about doing it for the
people and the aquatic life benefits. Don't get me wrong, I care about the animals and I care about the
people, the otters, and otters main source of food are okay fish, which grow down in eel grass.
you don't see many of them down in the high drill la, the other problem we really have in this river, is because they have bee
strangled for 35 years, it's the muck. When you get the muck out, you'll get back to the natural
bottom, get ready to plant the eel grass, bring back the aquatic life. It's a lot of work, it's why we
need the state to help us unite. Out. People like to accuse me of being an environmentalist, I'm
actually a rotarian, doing the best for all concerned. We want dunnellon to be a shining city on the river, just
like -- there is a shine willing city on the bay, that used to be a nasty disgusting bay, and that's why there's so many
people there. It's cleaned up. And you go down there later, it's quiet, peaceful, aquatic
life has come down. We have about 75% survival, it will come back. But nothing's ever perfect.
>> I understand that. >> can I stop you all? >> yes, I'm done. >> mayor: I heard this back and
forth, and that's great, that really doesn't talk about the city. I hate to say it that way.
I brought in thighs -- these books, they've been sitting here the whole meeting. These books are everything the
city has given me in the last 11 months to read. Okay? Every one of these binders,
every time I come to a meeting, I put them in a binder, when I get through the meeting, I put them in one of these binders.
none of this has to do with rainbow river, I can tell you that. >> yeah, it's too bad.
>> that's about everything else we do here in the city. Personally, I'm looking for someone that can help us solve
these problems, okay? Now, for example. I don't know if you were involved with this, we had a
little discussion here about short term rentals. This binder is the information in dunnellon on short term
rentals. That's all that's in this binder. What I'm trying to hit on is,
the river's important, clearly. But what we do on this council, has everything else to do -- but doesn't have anything to do with
the river. >> yeah, you've been ignoring the river. >> it's not our river, it's the
state's river. >> mayor: the state owns the river. >> we own the river.
>> we don't even the river, it's the state's river. >> mayor: let's not do that. The things and problems we deal
with, are a lot of problems that have nothing to do with the river. The short term rentals did,
because they're on the river. So they're different things, and believe it or not, this isn't all I got from the city, there's
only one copy of jan's 12,000 copy of the budget. Okay? I only kept one.
it's over there. Because I can see it. But what I'm saying is, we spend a lot of time having to study
and read, whether it's the bridge projects, parking, leases, whether it's short term rentals, whether it's the police
department, we're dealing with a lot of issues that don't have anything to do with the river. What I'm personally looking for
is someone to sit in that seat that can help us solve all the problems. >> like I said, I'm a rotarian,
what's beneficial to all concerned. And what's fair. >> I appreciate you coming in.
and putting your name in the hat, and we'll go from there. >> okay. >> mayor: thank you.
>> thanks, art. >> mayor: everybody good with that? Okay.
the next one I had was valerie hanchar. >> valerie hanchar. Thank you all for considering me
for this position. I saw that it was vacated, and I appreciate all the hard work that has been turn.
I appreciate it -- it's a thoughtless job at times, and, you know, nobody comes up here on purpose to start off -- they
all have good ideas and no one intentionally tries to harm the city. I think you start off asking us
to listen to the meeting. As far as 4-b. Just a parking lot for the -- I would recommend the gas tax, I
believe that is -- [ inaudible ] it's been there for so long, unless you have reason to tell
me otherwise -- that would be my recommendation to do that. I wanted to make one question. Is that the entire parking lot
that goes to the offices? That needs to be repaired, someone's going to trip and fall, it's already down to the
dirt. We've seen bands aids put on a time too many. Thank you for that.
the multimodal just to clarify that, started back in 2012, not 2018, but like you, and I'm not as organized as you, I had
paperwork regarding the multimodal from back in february of 2018. There were a lot of different
meetings that I attended on and off the council suggesting -- the city council fire department paperwork still from 2018.
so just wanted to clarify that. The 5-b was the project checklist. I think that's a great idea.
I'm not sure if jan had a chance to look at it, and the other city department heads, to make sure that's something that is --
can be produced before the project is approved, like the time of -- how much time would be managed by the city staff.
that may be something that's not a known factor until they got into it a little bit. >> no, that was a request when
this thing was put out. The answer should be yes. Department heads, it was done. >> it went out to everybody.
>> yeah, it was done with mandy, jan, public works. >> that was just a question of mine.
>> sure, no, I'm just answering it, right. >> can we abate second street. I know where it's abated, that's
not being used. [ inaudible ] and then the unapproved road out there, in dunnellon heights,
we've all been on dunnellon heights, we've driven back and forth for baseball teams. As a realtor, I drive on a lot
of roads like that, the one closest to the city limits of dunnellon, that has had new homes built by albania, would be
dunnellon oaks. Those roads are being maintained, it's a subdivision that has a lot of dirt roads as
well, and I have almost been stuck on those roads as well. So my thought process is, not that I think it's the right
thing, don't get me wrong on that, but was the county also doing regarding those types of issues.
you look at ocala, rolling oaks or rolling hills, the exact same scenario that we're talking about, you all are talking
about -- even silver springs had roads, it's now dirt. Some of them -- maybe we could reach out to our county road
departments to see how they're addressing that issue. That just may be one way for us to --
>> I can answer that one real quick. >> if you go to dunnellon oaks right now, you better take a
four wheel drive, those roads are in atrocious condition, and the county does not maintain those roads, they -- the people
that live in have to maintain those roads. >> yes, but all those areas are more county -- there are
resources we could reach out to our partners in the county, and find out how we could get something set up.
>> that's what mandy was asked to do, different ways to find funding and stuff like that. >> those are solutions I would
come up with, or questions I would come up with, what I've been doing since not being on city council, driving my husband
insane at home, I have had problem solving -- I see something on facebook, one instance at gua in hot springs,
there was a chlorine issue going on. Nothing was being done about it, I reached out to some of my
contacts. I still have at fgua. It was taken care of and rectified within a week.
they stepped on it, once I made a phone call to them, they got on top of it, and I appreciated the effort, and the phone call
that they were now receiving from fgua. So I have been active doing those things where I still have
contacts. I have been still volunteering with my city, I've been -- I was a judge for the parade.
I've been with the boys and girls club, done other things, I am still an active member of my city, even though I am not on
the city council, I still -- this is my home, and this is where I will always be. And help wherever I am needed or
asked. As far add working with the individuals on city council, it's always been an honor,
sometimes we all get along, sometimes we all want to look at each other like omg, how do you say that?
but the goal is to be able to leave here at the end of the evening and go out for a proverbial beer, even though we
can't do that, because of the sunshine laws. I love talking to rex at my mailbox, if we're both on city
council, we can say hi, how are you doing, your dog's cute. After that, it would be the end of our conversation.
we know the good, bad and ugly, and some of the things I voted for in the past, I've proud of, some of the things I voted for
in the past, I wish I hadn't. But I know there are only good intentions with whatever I do on the city council.
I'm not perfect, nor do I pretend to be perfect. That's me in a nutshell. I will be able to take over
immediately. I have my business cards that say valerie hanchar city council.
and I'm already saving you money. I have to be a smart alec every once in a while.
I get nervous sitting and speaking in front of people. Any questions? >> okay, valerie, I'm going to
start out with, once the election was over, the way you treated this council was like a personal vendetta, had nothing
to do with issues or anything. You came to that podium, chastised us over the police department.
and hope -- two of you guys ran to save money on the budget, I hope you're happy now. That whole police department
thing happened on your and other council people's watch. There was no oversight on that police department, which allowed
that police department to operate noncompliant in many, many areas to the point that after the mass exodus and the
present chief and lieutenant ron were wise enough to bring in outside auditors and see what we had, we were stunned by the
findings. Not only were we stunned by the findings, there were a few instances where -- and these
findings were findings that we have had during other audits for a number of years. Then there were a couple cases
where we literally had four days to make this happen or that happen, whether we were going to shut down our police department.
I didn't see -- there was no oversight whatsoever with our police department. Yet you come in here, cast
stones at us, about the whole police department thing. And that was something that got dropped in our lap.
we had nothing to do with that, during a lame duck session, the council you participated on bought a church, begin, during a
lame duck session. Brought a church that many people spoke out against, that the money that was going to have
to be put in, et cetera, et cetera. But you all decided you voted for it, to go ahead and buy this
church anyway, oath to find out nobody did their due diligence and this church building could never be a police station.
so all the time and money and drama that was wasted on that, you brought up fought springs, for two years, maybe three
years, there was a flooding issue, in the springs. We campaigned through the area, that was everybody's issue in
that area. We've been flooding down here for years. But the first time I got on
here, the first time, okay, that we got a heavy rain, public works brought us out there, look at what we got, people can't
even pull into their drive ways, it is knee deep in water, if somebody did walk-through there, when we're in there pumping it
out. What did we discover? We're standing there, and matt looks over, look right next to
us, there's an alligator in this drain at the end of these people's drive way. They've been living with this
stuff for years. Nothing was done about it. The budget got raised, you know, I wasn't on council then, I will
be through the budget. This is my third year. Jan was kind enough to put up with me even before I was up
there. Explain how this worked, that worked, last year I knew the taxes did not have to be raised.
I knew where the emergency needed to go and not go, because of my experience of running multimillion dollar projects,
budgets are normal business for me. Yet, when I brought it up, I got a three minute, yeah, yeah,
yeah, thank you. And I'm listening to everyone up here clap, we did it as a team. The only thing you did was raise
taxes and raise them needlessly. The proof is in the pudding, the own am thing I did is take my information from last year,
applied it to this year, and we didn't have to raise taxes and the revenue is no different. I'll leave it at that.
I can't find -- bring something up, I can't find anywhere, anything that was fixed during your tenure, however, I did
witness plenty of drama between you and the old mayor, wasted time and expense of everybody. I'm not laying all that on you,
but you participated. And that's not what we -- that's not what I want to go back to, okay?
again, I'm up here voting rather than all the voters out there voting, and I'm going to be responsible for my vote.
I don't want to continue with that -- I don't want to go back to that kind of behavior, I want to see issues fixed, I want to
see people roll up their sleeves. I don't want to see this meeting turned into the glee club or the
grammy awards. I want people to roll their sleeves up, get in the issues that wally has mentioned.
not just come up here and talk about it, but actually help the staff, work with the staff, give them -- not tell the staff go do
this, but offer them a project. Here, I see this is not -- we can do better than this on this, and give them a product.
not just -- lip service. So unfortunately, I'm a no with you, valerie. I'm done.
>> mayor: rex or walter, do you have any questions? >> well, first of all, I've known valerie a long time, I
know her family, I know her commitment to our community, and I'm proud to say that. The issues about the subject she
brought up, the police department and everything. It happened in the last five years, I wasn't involved in that
period of time. And it was disturbing to me to see some of the actions that took place.
but I've always had a lot of faith in valerie's judgment. I've always enjoyed listening to her viewpoints.
I know where her heart is because she's an old friend of mine. The community needs people who
have a heart for their hometown. You certainly have that. I'm not a party to any criticisms or comments for the
last five years, the only thing I spoke of in this city council was I requested hip for our dunnellon little league to get
our lights fixed. The city agreed to do that, I was grateful for that effort. I came in and spoke concerning
millions of dollars worth of grants that I worked on while I was in office. Those are the only two items
that I remember ever speaking to on the council. I always found when I did speak, I was respected and had no
reasons not to appreciate valerie's performance. >> mayor: we're good? >> may I just respond very
quickly? >> mayor: sure. >> as far as the lame duck session, I don't believe in lame
ducks. If I were sitting up there, I would work every single day until the day I leave office.
I don't believe in lame duck session. I believe you work until the day you walk out the door.
just to let you know that, as far as not having any due diligence on the property. I took two separate contractors,
one was from naples, didn't know a thing about dunnellon, he knew dunnellon, he didn't know any of the politics about dunnellon.
I did do my due diligence. Engineer, I am not. I didn't know until someone told me that.
I did do my due diligence to the best of my ability that I was able to do. As far as the flooding issues,
those subjects had been brought to the attention of public works in the past, I've never been told about knee deep water from
a resident. I don't go driving around after rainstorms to look at everybody's drive ways, but if
I'd ever been told there had been an issue of that sort. My first phone call would have been to anyone in public works,
to try to get those situations rectified. And yes, I will say there was drama up there, with our former
mayor. It was disturbing, I am human. It is not my preference to have had that happen to me, but there
were a lot of personal -- [ inaudible ] it is regrettable. It's not what I look forward to
do. I have worked on many city councils, back to when I was 28 years old.
I can tell you that we would have our differences, and like I just said, we would go out and have a proverbial beer, which we
could never do. We worked on city councils, we never agreed on things, but we would be civil to one another.
the attitude of the council that was brought to us the last time, I did not appreciate it. I'm sorry if I was a partner to
it. When you take so much, you sometimes have to come out and can't be that lame duck sitting
up there doing nothing. So my apologies -- it was offensive to me as well. Just ask my husband.
and as far as not offering the employees of the city -- that one probably hurts the worst I've always gone to the city
aids and asked, what can I do to help. When there have been shortages on this staff, give me a phone,
how can I help. I have seen grants come up, I will call any of the appropriate departments and give them that
information. When I have seen different -- I don't want to say the word services, you have that one in
my mind now, products to help streamline things, I have gone to them and said, hey, have you heard about this?
I can't give you a list of what it was, we have had city councilmembers sit up there on occasion, and say.
I'm up here, because I want to make a legacy, I want to make sure people knew I was up here. That has never been what I've
ever wanted. For me to tell you -- let me say this one, tim. When I was on the city council
in my younger days, we had walmart coming in, I fought for walmart to have to have somebody in that old walmart, I did not
want blight. That attorney would come in every meeting, she had to be here, and say, madam, vice mayor
or madam councilwoman, whatever I was at this point, these are the poem I've contacted, these are the companies that we're
trying to get them into there. I went to the postal service too try to get them to take that over.
I made sure the little side road that's there between our old walmart and new walmart -- I insisted upon that road being
there, I did not want city blight. I'm embarrassed to sit up here and tell you that, but I do
things that sometimes I don't want it to be -- it's not about me, it's what's for the betterment of the city of
dunnellon. So I just want to let you know, that yes, sir, I have made nice additions to this city that
people probably don't know about. But future again races will still be -- generations will
still be profiting from. And I'd be happy to still sit beside you. >> mayor: okay.
I have a couple questions. One. I know you've served on the council for quite a while, how
many years have you served on the council. Can you remember? >> 10?
don't hold me to that. >> mayor: I knew it was 8 and then a lot before that. I have a couple comments.
I don't -- want to dwell on this church bag too much, but one thing I thought was odd, the city was going to sell the
church building, I don't know, the next month, you wanted it brought up again and voted on again.
and the vote was 3 to 2 the first time, and 3 to 2 the second time. That seems to me to be a waste
of time. I didn't understand why you thought the votes would change. Because they weren't.
the next thing I'm going to say is when it got to running for you is positions. I'm not a politician, I've said
that from day one. Sitting out there and watching the way this council worked and you don't deserve all the blame,
I will give you that. There were a lot of problems up here. We could all see it, okay, so
don't feel like this is all on you. And that's probably the aren't mayor left one month after the
new council got on here. He realized he wasn't going to change us, we were going to complaining him.
the one thing I notice is why I ran. I'm hearing you talk about all this but every meeting it seemed
to me, sitting out there, you were not prepared. You had not studied like I study, you had not read the
material, you asked a lot of questions, when you start talking, you start talking and it's like a runaway train.
and you just talk and talk and talk and talk and talk, until it finally comes back around. Until it's finally stopped.
I know you're passionate, I'm the same way, nothing gets accomplished with all that talking.
sitting out here, I watched you come in here and not be prepared. >> can I comment on that?
>> okay. Sorry. >> the other thing -- I'm going to say something -- every time I
got on that podium and talked to the council, I would look at you, you'd be scribbling, you would roll your eyes, look down,
look at me, roll your eyes, like I'm wasting your time. And I felt like that was an insult to me to stand up there.
you stand up at the second meeting we're in, and you jump on me and I roll my eyes at you, just to see what you'd do, and
you went nuts. But did I ever go nuts standing out there? I didn't say a word to you about
rolling my eyes at you, but you did. And I'm like, tim, what we inherited in that will police
department, we're lucky we have a police department. And that police chief was there for six years, and did nothing.
nothing. And everybody on this council for six years had to have known it.
I'm the only one that wrote the man up and gave him a horrible review so he quote. Nobody but me, I'm an sob.
at the time, everybody in this town jumped on me, how I could fire our police chief who was so wonderful.
I'd like you to go over and sit down with ron and our new chief, and get a debrief of what they found.
it was unbelievable. That's all I'm going to say. And for you and everybody else to attack this council when he
left, I was furious. Because I knew things you all didn't know. I think it was totally uncalled
for, you and our former mayor, who got up and criticized me personally for what I did. And I can tell you this, I
jumped all over billy woods that night. And I regretted it, and I apologized to everyone in this
audience, I went over and apologized to him. We worked very hard for the next month and saved this department.
billy woods and I are good friends now. He and I -- that was a coup that was worked out with billy and
mcquaid. None of them are to be hired back in this department. That's how bad they were.
you all don't know how bad it was. But for you y'all to stand up, we've been here 30 days and jump
on me and all of us, that was wrong, valerie. I'm sorry. Now you can speak.
>> and I have never seen an audit. That's a good thing you brought up, that you want a -- the
audits that are due from the different departments. That was not something we knew there was an audit.
I never knew there was an audit needed for the police department. Did not know that, had not --
did you ever know we had to have audits of the police department wild you were on city council? I don't remember any of them
being brought up to us, unless there was an issue being raised. My apologize, I didn't know. >> we're here to provide
oversight, oversight is the major function of this council. >> miss hanchar asked me a question, let me answer it.
>> yes, sir. >> valerie, had I realized in the meantime, there was a problem, as you said, if you
realized there was a problem, you would have spoken up. I did not see a problem, we had gone through a transition, when
I was in office, we had a lieutenant from the sheriff's department, operating our police department in that time.
I'm going balk a little bit, it worked out well, to get us into a transition period to hire a police chief.
we went through a search process, and we made a determination, and we hired a veteran police officer with the
county, and that was mike mcquaid, we hired him on his references and his ability that were relayed by his record.
and that's what we went by. And then as we went on it, it didn't overlap that much, because I've been gone five
years, I never saw an instance or heard of an instance of concern, at that point in time. I can't -- as I said, I had not
done any public comments, criticisms or anything, concerning city policies for the last five years.
as far as at the beginning, valerie, I did know the circumstances where he was hired, and he I did review his
resume and recommendations. That's when he was hired at that point in time. >> you probably didn't know that
he negotiated to where he didn't have to adjust salaries for any of our policemen the whole time he was here with the union.
the first time it was renegotiated was the year we took over. We found out he hadn't done it,
or allowed the union to adjust salaries in five years. >> we did adjust salaries -- >> mayor: no, you adjusted
salaries. But the union was never allowed to come in here and adjust salaries, that's why when the
union came through. Nobody on the police department understood they had a raise. That was the other thing that
was amazing. They were getting raises and they didn't even know it. >> I fought for that --
>> when the union came in, you had the honor of sitting down with them and negotiating this, and all of their salaries were
drastically raised, that's how bad it was. >> okay. That's good.
>> mayor: no, no, you all gave them raises up here, they weren't being supported by their union, because mcquaid had
worked out a deal that the union wouldn't come in. >> I would have never known that until you told me that.
but thank you for that. And about me not being prepared for my work, I'm going to take issue with that one, yes, sir, I
answered all my emails, I did my homework, and if I asked a lot of questions up there, it was sometimes -- a lot of times to
correct misinformation that was being presented by citizens in the audience, even that they heard it from us, think still
are saying the same wrong information, that's when I would give it to jan, is that coming out of the xyz placement or is
that coming from -- I was trying to do it in a manner and for some of my councilmembers where I was trying not to insult them
by their lack of not knowing the correct answers or not hearing it. Sometimes you have to hear it
three times before you actually understand it -- >> mayor: I'm still going to say what I said.
I don't think you were prepared. You're not as prepared as the three or four of us are. I talked to staff about this,
they said the same thing. This council has been more prepared than any council that's ever sat here.
we ask more questions and we get more answers. >> that is great. I'm sorry you were insulted
about the police department. We were going off the information that we were given and that we were to understand
>> mayor: given by who? By the chief? >> by the chief, by staff, I'll give you that.
I'll let you know that, my first priority will always be our citizens and our staff >> mayor: that's very clear, I
heard that six years in a row. That all you're interested in is staff. No.
>> no. >> mayor: I get that, but if we have a police department that is not run correct, that affects
the citizens valerie, I'm sorry. I was sitting there in the real world watching our police department do nothing.
I kept telling them there's drug problems downtown, speeding in downtown. Mcquaid would look at me like,
drop dead. The council until me what to do, you don't. I got up here and told him what
to do. >> he had probably one of the best safety records in the state.
>> we have a better police department now -- >> I'm not saying. I've been through different
police departments. I appreciate all your concerns. And I would consider it an honor to be on the city council.
>> mayor: all right. Golly. Chuck dillon. >> chuck dillon, I live at 20320
palmetto lane. What I would like to do is let you know some solutions for the problems I see.
I've been on the council 13 years? Mayor two. Been intimately involved in
dunnellon heights from the get go. There is an andrew, jan can look into it, there's $120,000
sitting in an escrow account somewhere. It's in city minutes, because bill white came up and tried to
get us to put water and sewer in there. He was willing to put in the $120,000 to put water in.
somewhere, I don't know where, but somewhere there was -- $120,000. The problem with dunnellon
heights is, I think the council needs to just -- I'm not going to say that ah, I promised myself I'm not criticizing, I've
not come for it. There is a provision that allows you to pave the roads in there, at a cost of one third of the
cost of the roads. That provision is, each person pays a third, a third, a third. I have property in there, I'm
willing to pay it. We've had people coming up saying we don't want to pay it, but we want to city to do
something. I think if it gets to the point where we wouldn't to do something about that.
that is an alternative. A third, a third, a third. I think that's realistic. The last grant we got, the
planning commission wanted to put the $825,000 into putting roads into dunnellon heights. The public works director came
in, and told those people it could be done for 3 million. I told them it would be closer to 10 million, by the time you
got in there and. That's one option. The other option is, if you do the third, third, third -- and I
may be wrong on this, what's happened is. I can tell you, I paid $750 when I first came here.
you got a problem with the builder going in there. Do that. We're going to go ahead and fix
that. But you're going to pay a third I we're going to pay a third and the city's going to pay a third.
valerie was talking about how the county handles things. The county has authority we don't.
they have taxing interests. The homeowners. We can't do that. Another option I wasn't on the
board, when we did the cra. When we did the cra. We knew we had a problem in dunnellon heights, we included
dunnellon heights in the cra. There should be cra money in there to make improvements in dunnellon heights.
the other thing, and I just have to make a comment -- I was going to email mr. Dunn but I doesn't. I thought I'd keep my nose out
of it. The best thing you did for the police department, was make a statement saying the people in
rainbow springs don't run this city. The people of rainbow springs have been running this city for
the last 25 to 30 years. The drinkers used the manatees coming up into the rainbow river to get boat speeds limited.
these conservationists use anything they can to make their points. Those are solutions.
the other solution I talked to mandy about. We have a lot of roads in dunnellon that are not used.
they're on pits. Second straight, you couldn't drive down there with a monster truck.
he's coming for the council to say -- if those streets aren't needed for access than aggregate them.
the property owner wins, they get 25 feet of property and the other property owners win. That's another solution you
could use. I made a lot of mistakes -- I argue with everybody. When we did the comp plan the
rainbow river conservation club wanted to write the comp plan. And they initiated this river corridor and said, you have
to -- from planning -- you have to compute the amount of frontage on the river to decide how much you can -- it was all
crazy. I stand behind the comp plan the other thing the council did prior to us.
they made every lot in blue cove too. We have council people that decided they didn't want people
to develop the property. They made it low density. There won't be a lot in blue cove two you can built on.
we grandfathered in all the lots of record prior to 2008 which made all those lots -- I'd like to solve problems.
I looked at the applicants, decided I had as much chance as they do, maybe I don't, but any questions you have, criticisms,
whatever. I know how hard it is to sit up there. It's hard to hold your tongue.
>> you got that right. >> that's all I have to say. >> have you discussed this with janie?
>> yes, I have. >> and what was her reply? >> no. >> were you listening?
>> no. >> there's a case right there, chuck, where I think your judgment is out of whack.
janie knows a lot more about what you need to be doing. >> there's got to be a woman out there to keep the rest of the
men straight. >> I would -- >> when it comes to this city, and what I can do for this city,
that's fine. If you decide you don't want me, that's fine too. She is totally against it.
>> I don't have a janie in my life, you are fortunate to have one in your life. Everyone knows that.
it takes a lot of your time to serve this city. Other than janie not going along with you, I already know you,
chuck. I know the pluses and minuses. The one thing I didn't address that I needed to address.
the multimodal -- when we first roughed that up, it was all we were going to do. We were going to put stripes in
there, you see it everywhere. I'm up at flag letter beach -- >> 240, all the same -- then the people of rainbow springs got
involved. What they wanted. They wanted a bridge across the river, so people could come from
blue run park across the river and not have to -- the other thing is -- just because I work with them a lot --
>> sure, right. >> so what happened was, there was one 18 hadn't $8 million in the original funding budget for
them to move all their lines. When push came to shove that money was taken -- the waterlines or sewer lines under
the road, that's down -- all fuga has to do is sleeve them, they sleeve them with steal, and then they run it, you're not
going to have -- as a contractor -- >> just to help with that part of the conversation, the water
main -- it's not the sewer lines, the gravity lines. It's on the north side of the road.
they're not going down that deep. They're going to remove an inch and a half of blacktop and
resurface that area. They will not be used to do any sleeving or anything with them. >> I did not know that.
>> that -- so two other things -- andrew, does your firm still represent -- [ inaudible ]
>> yes. >> to your point about the short term rentals, I have one right in front of my house.
I know it's every week. Flag letter beach has got an excellent solution. What they do, they hand out.
they determine how many licenses they want to give out, they gave out those licenses and then they go with the property someone
comes in there, that guy can rent out the property -- if we don't do something about that. The most around the rainbow
river are going to be short term rentals, they don't care. They hoot and holler all night long.
they don't care. I'm sorry, I didn't want to -- >> no, you're good. We want to hear from you, that's
why we put this at the end, so we didn't have to rush through this and hold everybody else up. >> I think here's where walter
and I disagree vehemently is on the bicycle path. I love it to death, but I disagree with everything he says
about it, I think the medians will slow the traffic down -- I have breakfast every morning at the purple stage and every
afternoon, it's a drag strip. By putting those islands in, it's going to slow the traffic down.
>> that's what they do. >> that will do that. The other thing is, they're putting crosswalks in which we
don't have now. We have the apartment complex -- the people go over to the doughnut shop -- they have to
stop the traffic, let the people in the wheelchair go across, if someone will look at where those apartments are and make sure
there's a pedestrians crossing there, that's going to be a big plus. I'm sorry, like I said, I'm here
to get criticized for my decisions or ask questions about anything you'd like to ask me about.
>> I know you got questions. >> this doesn't just pertain to you, typically, we have these conversations in our living
rooms with our friends, spouses, whomever. Unfortunately, we're expressing our opinions in a public format.
some opinions are harsh and hard to listen to, I do wish the circumstances were different for everybody.
>> don't worry, I can take it. You brought up some interesting things here, your one third one third one third, you just
listened to the budget woes, and I understand the one third concept, but we know we're talking about at least 10
million. And that number is probably a couple years old, so I'm sure that number's gone up.
you do that math, 12 million, that's $4 million, the city doesn't have that for paving opinion.
>> right. I'm not advocating. >> it's just a comment. Blue cove too.
my understanding of blue cove is, there was a zoning scandal I'm going to use my words and interpretation, kind of a zoning
scandal that happened around that well one of the previous planning department folks. That will had to get relooked
at, it was done under the table and this is my understanding, blue cove zoning had to go back to where it was again.
low density to medium density, unbeknownst to many people. I'm skeptical of the whole blue cove thing, knowing that little
bit of information. My question for you would be what are you looking to accomplish in a one year sitting
up here about. >> I guess what I'm trying to accomplish is provide information and background that
I have and that's it. I'm not going to run again. The next year between the bike path and everything else we're
doing -- I'm 74 years old. >> I'm not quite there. >> that's all, I think I'm a wealth of knowledge.
and provide it, you all do what you want to do. I'm not going to be on the council to be very forward.
that's it. That's all I can offer. >> here's where it's going to get harsh.
>> that's all right. >> there's skepticism you maybe wan at to get on for some of your development projects.
and push the zoning changes, I don't know what needs to happen. But I keep hearing -- I've never heard it called blue cove 2
before, but I know where you're talking about. There's a thought process that you want to get on here to push
something through, so you can develop that area. >> I can tell you right now, anyone who's worked with me.
I have never put my interest before this city. Never I put money into the coffers to save the city council
from goaling ethics complaints. I put the city first, I always have I got the piece of property you're talking about, okay?
that was to me was vindictive the way they rezoned it. There's a commercial next to that, and they make it low
density. That's neither here nor there. I could put six houses on that, according to the new comp plan,
I may do it, I may not do it, I will assure you that I have no projects. That's the only piece, and I own
the property in front of the mobile home park. I've recused myself every time, and you can ask anyone -- even
when I didn't have to recuse myself because I don't want there to be any conflict. You can believe what's on the
screen or. >> no, I'm with you. I understand what you're saying, I purposely do not read the
newspapers I don't have social media other than email. I don't get into facebook or anything like that, it's too
distracting for me. I'm not in tune with to the word on the street unless someone's bringing it to me.
here's something I experienced not personally with you, but was part of the shade shelter, the whole shelter thing at public
beach I'm going to fast forward, we're looking to put in a shade shelter. I'll save the horror story for
how we lost $11,000, we got exam -- scammed out of $11,000. That shouldn't have happened. If someone wasn't pushing that
project so hard, we would have done step a, b, c in order but we did not. That's neither here nor there
for this conversation with you. After that ah, somehow you and the past mayor, mr. White got together and you offered the
city buy the material, you would construct the shade shelter [ inaudible ] >> right, the city would supply
material and you would take care of everything else. But -- the issue we had with that, I'll use me -- the issue I
had with that is -- it goes against a lot of things. As you know, the liability being a contractor that comes with
doing business that way it was a noble thing, but we got burned by getting out of process, and now we're going to step back in
the same pile and get out of process again, all right? Part of my mind was, the liabilities and such, if
something goes wrong -- my other issue with it was, again, word on the street, chuck dillon has a fit over something, and I can
relate to that. Myself. And the next thing you know, you walk off, and we're sitting with
$11,000 worth of material on the ground rotting. >> if you'll let me clarify something, okay?
the materials were $5,000 or something less. The first you got ripped off on, I went out there, and there was
a dip in the roof, because the contractor didn't put ties in. >> I'm aware of everything about the old one.
I went over there and I thought, that's ridiculous. >> here's what I've done in the past.
I built the city beach bath house. I did the extension on the old library that way.
I did the extension on -- >> absolutely. >> all I'm staying is, I was going back to --
>> absolutely, and my career was the same thing, we used to be able to do things like this, no problem.
as the years went on, all that stuff came to a screeching halt. What my real issue was -- when it all took place.
I was party -- record requests were made, et cetera, et cetera. So I read the texts that were sent to the public works manager
from you and they were -- you can tell you were upset. >> incendiary. That's a good one, that's
perfect. Exactly. And what I'm worried about is -- we wanted to just keep
everything in process and stay safe, especially since we just got ripped off for $11,000, now we're going to do something on a
good ole boy method, it's like, we didn't learn a lesson from a week ago. And the past public works leader
gets humiliated. The only thing he was wanting to do was, follow what we wanted. Stay in process.
do not get out of process. I was taken aback. Don't get me wrong, I've scorched the earth --
>> I have no regrets, I'll tell you why, when someone stands up and says things that are not true, things that I didn't say,
I met with mandy and I met with troy. Things were said in that meeting, that when he got up
here changed. I'd do it again today. >> okay. >> if I'm not selected because
of that ah, that's fine. >> my issue is not the incendiary attacks, my worry is, staying in process.
I cannot cast a stone at you, I've scorched too many earths much. >> I guess all you have to do is
you have to ask the staff, talk to andrew, I stay in the process, we're doing something that's my goal.
I want to get there. >> I don't stop any process, that's the problem with dunnellon, the problem with
dunnellon, they have never stood up and said, this is the right thing to do, and we're going to do it, we're not waiting ten
years, we're not waiting five years, we're going to give it -- >> we're not having others spend our money.
and we're in agreement there. Okay. I'm all good. Thank you.
sorry, wally. >> mayor: I just have two questions. One, and you've mentioned it, I
think you have a home here in dunnellon, and you have one somewhere around jacksonville, st. Augustine?
>> flagler beach. >> mayor: how much time do you spend in each one of these? >> when I was on the council, it
was here. I didn't go to the beach I would go to the beach on the weekend. I'll guarantee you --
>> I mar you have a house up there -- if you get on the council, you need to focus on the town.