1
00:00:02,350 --> 00:00:04,390
Good evening everyone.

2
00:00:06,630 --> 00:00:10,350
Good evening everyone.

3
00:00:16,220 --> 00:00:29,480
Good evening. Good evening. Thank you all for being here. Today is August 24th, 26th, and this is the meeting of the Durham Board of County Commissioners. There's our regular session.

4
00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:38,060
I'm going to read the public charge, and then I'll have commissioner valentine, read the land acknowledgement.

5
00:00:38,540 --> 00:00:43,380
After that, we'll then have commissioner Jacobs, lead us in the pledge.

6
00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:50,060
The Board of Commissioners asks members in a residence to conduct themselves in a respectful, courteous manner.

7
00:00:50,660 --> 00:00:55,220
Both with the Board and fellow residents, at a root fellow residents.

8
00:00:55,220 --> 00:00:59,620
At any time, should any member of the board or any resident

9
00:00:59,620 --> 00:01:03,120
fail to observe this public charge, the chair will ask the

10
00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:06,500
offending person to leave the meeting until that individual

11
00:01:06,500 --> 00:01:10,660
regains personal control? Should decorum fail to be restored?

12
00:01:11,180 --> 00:01:14,780
The chair will recess the meeting until such time that a

13
00:01:14,780 --> 00:01:18,560
genuine commitment to the public charge is observed.

14
00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:20,280
Commissar Valanda.

15
00:01:21,220 --> 00:01:23,680
Thank you chair. As we convene for the

16
00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,500
County Commission's meeting. It's crucial to recognize the

17
00:01:27,500 --> 00:01:30,780
Pinkwood Truth of History. We stand on a stolen ancestral lands of

18
00:01:30,780 --> 00:01:34,520
the Kataba. The Eno, the Okaniji, the Shikori, and the

19
00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:38,440
Tuskwarans peoples. Who's deep connection to this land predates our

20
00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:42,000
arrival. We acknowledge with humility the unjust displacement and

21
00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,500
violence that occurred leading to the dispossession of indigenous

22
00:01:44,500 --> 00:01:47,860
peoples from their homeland. Their resilience in a face of such

23
00:01:47,860 --> 00:01:52,380
adversity is attestimate to their strength and spirit. Maybe

24
00:01:52,380 --> 00:01:56,960
I hope we honor the ancestors and elders of these nations, both past and present, by committing

25
00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:03,380
ourselves the fostering understanding, healing, and justice, for all who inhabit this land,

26
00:02:03,700 --> 00:02:07,140
let us walk forward together with open hearts, acknowledge in the past and embracing

27
00:02:07,140 --> 00:02:12,400
a future, guided by compassion, respect, and unity.

28
00:02:41,930 --> 00:02:45,530
Thank you, commissioner Valentine and commissioner checkups.

29
00:02:46,030 --> 00:02:51,590
The next item on our agenda is agenda adjustments or agenda review and approval.

30
00:02:52,550 --> 00:02:54,850
Are they need adjustments to the agenda as presented?

31
00:02:56,530 --> 00:02:59,210
I'll accept the motion to approve the agenda as presented.

32
00:02:59,950 --> 00:03:01,030
So moved, second.

33
00:03:01,250 --> 00:03:04,510
It's been moved and probably seconded that we approve the agenda as presented.

34
00:03:04,930 --> 00:03:05,850
Any further discussion?

35
00:03:06,690 --> 00:03:08,350
All in favor say aye.

36
00:03:08,550 --> 00:03:10,970
All opposed, please, she's the same sign.

37
00:03:11,470 --> 00:03:12,350
It passes unanimously.

38
00:03:13,490 --> 00:03:16,470
Next item on our agenda are announcements.

39
00:03:17,430 --> 00:03:17,970
Clerk Wallace.

40
00:03:18,390 --> 00:03:19,310
Good evening, everyone.

41
00:03:19,490 --> 00:03:20,910
I will read the announcements published

42
00:03:20,910 --> 00:03:21,910
in tonight's agenda.

43
00:03:23,550 --> 00:03:26,210
Students have 30 days from the first day of school

44
00:03:26,210 --> 00:03:28,630
to get caught up on all required vaccinations.

45
00:03:29,330 --> 00:03:31,110
The Durham County Department of Public Health

46
00:03:31,110 --> 00:03:33,790
has all required vaccinations available

47
00:03:33,790 --> 00:03:35,370
in their immunization clinic

48
00:03:35,370 --> 00:03:38,310
by appointment or by walking in as schedule permits.

49
00:03:38,790 --> 00:03:43,210
Children who are under insured or have no insurance can be vaccinated at no calls.

50
00:03:43,790 --> 00:03:51,750
For more information or to schedule an appointment, please call the Immunization Office at 919-560-7608,

51
00:03:51,850 --> 00:03:56,690
or you can visit website dcopublichealth.org.

52
00:03:57,410 --> 00:03:59,930
Love cooking and giving back to your community.

53
00:03:59,930 --> 00:04:07,030
Durham Cooperative Extension is looking for residents to join the Extension Master Food Volunteer Program

54
00:04:07,810 --> 00:04:17,300
Interested residents are invited to join and upcoming information session to learn how they can turn their skills and passion and to meaningful support for families across Durham

55
00:04:18,610 --> 00:04:19,350
EMF

56
00:04:19,350 --> 00:04:26,610
These support and amplify cooperative extensions nutrition and cooking programs and can lead their own cooking demos in the community

57
00:04:26,610 --> 00:04:31,930
applications for the new cohort opened later this summer and anyone interested must attend

58
00:04:31,930 --> 00:04:37,310
an information session. There is a link to register and receive additional information.

59
00:04:38,550 --> 00:04:44,150
Durham County Library and Duke Cancer Institute for Real Talk Community Conversations

60
00:04:44,150 --> 00:04:49,770
about Health, a community-centered dialogue about health and wellness for adults at Stanford

61
00:04:49,770 --> 00:04:53,450
a one branch library located at 1211 Feb.

62
00:04:53,650 --> 00:04:57,130
Street from 6 to 730 p.m. on Wednesday, August 26.

63
00:04:57,870 --> 00:04:59,830
This open conversation brings together community.

64
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:10,180
Members and health professionals to explore topics such as cancer prevention, clinical research, screening opportunities, and other health questions that matter to you.

65
00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:15,360
Bring your curiosity questions and experience and connect with others in a welcoming informal setting.

66
00:05:16,840 --> 00:05:25,900
The public comment period for Q1 amendments to the fiscal year 27, Durham Transit Work Program, is now open until Thursday, August 27.

67
00:05:25,900 --> 00:05:31,860
For additional information on the proposed amendments, you can visit the Transportation Departments website.

68
00:05:32,140 --> 00:05:38,620
There is a link and you can also submit a public comment at transportation at dconc.gov.

69
00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:44,700
Most Durham County Government offices will be closed on Monday, September 7, 2026,

70
00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:47,980
and observance of the Labor Day Holiday.

71
00:05:47,980 --> 00:05:53,340
offices will reopen with normal operating hours on Tuesday, September 8th.

72
00:05:53,820 --> 00:06:00,380
For details on how the holiday may affect specific county services, please visit DCONC.gov.

73
00:06:01,020 --> 00:06:06,920
And lastly, Durham County Library invites you to view rare 19th-century prints of the Declaration

74
00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:12,760
of Independence at the Durham County Main Library from September 8th through 2026.

75
00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:29,940
As part of the we the people of Duke and Dermin initiative, Durham County Main Library and the National Museum of Art at Duke University will present three historic copies of the Declaration of Independence on loan from the David and Rubenstein Americana collection.

76
00:06:30,540 --> 00:06:39,240
This exhibit offers a rare opportunity to explore how the nation's founding document was visually rendered and circulated in early American history.

77
00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:47,900
For more information about the exhibit, you can visit Durham County Library.libcal.com that concludes the Announcements published in tonight's agenda.

78
00:06:48,460 --> 00:06:49,300
Thank you, Clark Wallace.

79
00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,280
The next item on our agenda are the minutes.

80
00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:54,120
Oh, I'm sorry.

81
00:06:54,820 --> 00:06:58,980
Are there any other announcements from Commissioners?

82
00:06:58,980 --> 00:06:59,580
Commissioner Jacob.

83
00:07:00,840 --> 00:07:01,620
Thank you, Chair.

84
00:07:01,620 --> 00:07:15,700
I just wanted to really celebrate the fact that we had the statewide convening of the North Carolina Association of County Commissioners here in Durham.

85
00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:22,420
The conference started Wednesday and then ended on Saturday night.

86
00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:28,420
It's the first time that we've had county commissioners from across North Carolina

87
00:07:28,420 --> 00:07:38,720
from 89 different counties and their staff here in Durham since 2017, and I really want

88
00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:45,840
to thank our staff, especially our clerk, Monica Wallace, our deputy clerk, Maseo

89
00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:51,920
Carlton, many other people, it's on a reward, our director of Cooperative

90
00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:53,640
Central, Brent, Lewis,

91
00:07:55,740 --> 00:07:59,260
our Deborah Craig, great.

92
00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:02,500
I'm going to get into trouble by naming people,

93
00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,700
but Crystal Harris, anyway, we had a lot of our staff

94
00:08:07,700 --> 00:08:12,720
have been working for months to make this conference possible.

95
00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:19,100
And we had over 600 people downtown in the Convention Center,

96
00:08:19,100 --> 00:08:31,080
and it was really a fantastic convening and I personally enjoyed a lot of different sessions.

97
00:08:31,740 --> 00:08:37,020
One on data centers upcoming challenges around property tax.

98
00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:45,020
I went to one on mental health, trauma, and I just found that there was a lot of really

99
00:08:45,020 --> 00:08:55,220
good conversations happening for rural, urban, young, old, Democrat, Republican, people building

100
00:08:55,220 --> 00:09:00,980
relationships and all focusing on the issues that all of our counties are facing.

101
00:09:01,380 --> 00:09:09,520
And I do want to share with our board, because I know everyone was not able to be at the

102
00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:31,540
I'm really excited, I was appointed by the incoming president to help chair his presidential initiative, which is going to be around social services and protecting social services because we know that right now in the state and in our country, our safety net is under attack.

103
00:09:31,540 --> 00:09:41,580
And so I really look forward to being a part of that and also including our board in that as well.

104
00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:44,020
And Durham County staff, thank you.

105
00:09:47,260 --> 00:09:49,480
Okay, any other announcements?

106
00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:51,260
Did you?

107
00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:52,240
Thank you.

108
00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:57,640
Thank you very much.

109
00:09:57,640 --> 00:09:59,980
That, um, and see if...

110
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:09,200
AACC conference was a great conference. I couldn't be there, but okay. All right.

111
00:10:11,300 --> 00:10:16,180
There are no other announcements from our commissioners. Next item on our agenda.

112
00:10:17,060 --> 00:10:22,660
Order approval of the minutes for August 10th, 2026, our regular session minutes.

113
00:10:24,580 --> 00:10:35,500
It's been moved in probably a second and we approved the minutes dated August 10, 2026, our regular session, any further discussion, all in favor say aye.

114
00:10:35,860 --> 00:10:39,680
All opposed, please use the same sign, pass it unanimously.

115
00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,700
Next item on our agenda, we move into ceremony items.

116
00:10:43,700 --> 00:10:49,680
We have two proclamations.

117
00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:54,060
The first one is recognizing the Durham Library Foundation

118
00:10:54,060 --> 00:10:57,640
and acknowledgement of their fiscal year,

119
00:10:57,900 --> 00:11:02,360
2027 gift of $248,317,

120
00:11:03,460 --> 00:11:08,080
$31 in support of Durham County Library Programs.

121
00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:15,880
You're a microphone.

122
00:11:21,830 --> 00:11:23,490
Learning something new every day.

123
00:11:23,490 --> 00:11:28,790
Good evening everyone. My name is Cara Nunnelly. I'm the Executive Director of the Durham Library Foundation.

124
00:11:29,530 --> 00:11:31,390
Thank you all for the invitation to be here tonight.

125
00:11:32,570 --> 00:11:40,250
We are so honored to present this year's grant award of over $248,000 to Durham County Library.

126
00:11:40,870 --> 00:11:45,830
This is possible because of our dedicated donors, our passionate board members,

127
00:11:46,310 --> 00:11:51,370
and the wonderful library staff who believe in the power of libraries in the Durham community.

128
00:11:52,030 --> 00:11:56,750
The foundation exists solely to provide a margin of excellence to Durham County Library.

129
00:11:57,450 --> 00:12:02,710
It is already an impactful resource, and our job is to raise money to make it world-class

130
00:12:02,710 --> 00:12:09,290
by providing enhancements, to programming, and events for all ages and ages of life,

131
00:12:09,550 --> 00:12:14,990
though otherwise would not be possible. This award is a testament to our community,

132
00:12:15,690 --> 00:12:18,830
to our libraries, and to our future. Thank you.

133
00:12:26,830 --> 00:12:29,270
And I'm Dana Conners, I'm the Library Director.

134
00:12:29,490 --> 00:12:33,610
We so much appreciate our partnership with the Durham Library Foundation this year.

135
00:12:33,810 --> 00:12:50,390
This total $48,000 is funding 14 different programs, including things that everybody in the community knows and loves, including our summer reading program, library fest that happens in April every year, and a myriad of other programs that we hope you all come to the library to enjoy.

136
00:12:50,990 --> 00:12:51,730
Thank you.

137
00:12:52,150 --> 00:12:53,310
All right. Thank you.

138
00:14:23,850 --> 00:14:24,810
Commissioner comments.

139
00:14:25,890 --> 00:14:27,390
Come on, thank you, Chair.

140
00:14:28,370 --> 00:14:31,830
And so, Ms. Nunnly, director Nunnly, where are

141
00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:36,700
you?

142
00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:38,400
You escaped the moment.

143
00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:45,780
So I just want to say thank you to you and the board or the foundation.

144
00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:52,100
Every year you come into this chamber and you do a Yemen job supporting your libraries.

145
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:58,400
I think most of the people who have gathered here today would agree that the library

146
00:14:58,400 --> 00:14:59,640
where it is.

147
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:17,260
One of our largest assets. It's an asset that all of the community can be involved. And so the money that you raise goes towards a very important part of our community and maintaining it and adding to the programming that goes on in our library.

148
00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:26,380
So I just want to say thank you from my seat here on the board and I'm sure there are others who will join me in that. And so thank you

149
00:15:32,780 --> 00:15:33,480
Commissioner Burr.

150
00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,040
Yes, thank you, Chair Lee.

151
00:15:35,480 --> 00:16:03,460
And thank you, Ms. Donnelly, for always supporting the Library, you know, I love the library and all the wonderful things that it does for our Durham community and I just want to share that during the North Carolina Association of County Commissioners conference, I was hailed last week here in Durham, the Durham County Library, the main branch was one of the sites that we did, the tours, or we had other county commissioners from across North Carolina to tour our area.

152
00:16:03,460 --> 00:16:12,560
library downtown and Commissioner Jacobs went to our affordable housing and she let that

153
00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:23,660
and I let the library and those commissioners and other staff with in CACC, they were just blown away by our library

154
00:16:23,660 --> 00:16:28,640
and I made sure that Dana mentioned about the important work of the library foundation.

155
00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:33,640
and so thank you so much for all that you do for Durham County Libraries, we appreciate

156
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:35,200
you.

157
00:16:35,260 --> 00:16:35,940
Thank you.

158
00:16:42,060 --> 00:16:42,840
Commissioner Along.

159
00:16:43,300 --> 00:16:44,080
Thank you, Charlie.

160
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:49,140
And before I give my comments, I just want to note, if you have an empty seat next

161
00:16:49,140 --> 00:16:53,100
to you, if you want to raise your hand, so that folks who are standing know they can come

162
00:16:53,100 --> 00:16:58,300
file in or if you guys go over to make room for folks standing if you want to sit down.

163
00:16:58,300 --> 00:17:07,480
But I wanted to join in in my thanks in appreciation for all the work that you all do to raise this money because a lot of times folks don't know that

164
00:17:08,780 --> 00:17:16,880
Durham County government and local governments, we're not authorized or allowed to fundraise and solicit funds for vital programs.

165
00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:20,520
Our main source of revenue is property tax and sales tax.

166
00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:29,040
And obviously like that also there's a drawback to that because their most marginalized communities get impacted when those have to be raised.

167
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:37,100
So having an entity like the Durham Public Library Foundation that steps in in this space that the county is not able to fill.

168
00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:46,340
To do this fundraising to do the hard work of reaching out to other folks who would love our libraries who see how vital of a resource it is probably after Durham Public Schools.

169
00:17:46,340 --> 00:18:15,700
It's the most visited, used resource within Durham County and Polyony, local government, so y'all's work is really vital for us, not only to help keep the program running, but also supporting our tax, right not having to go up and up, but thank you so much for this work and for carrying about our library so much, I know myself and my children love to visit and attend the story hours and then also we are at East Regional Libraries, our closest, they have different like crafts and activities

170
00:18:16,380 --> 00:18:22,100
for young kids. I'm hoping you guys bring back. There was one day. I was rescheduled. I'm waiting to see when it's back.

171
00:18:22,340 --> 00:18:30,520
There was like a service dogs, for kids, where people bring in service dogs and training to practice around young children.

172
00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:35,880
And so the fact that our libraries are welcoming to that type of programming is really great too.

173
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:39,320
Thank you, commissioners.

174
00:18:44,170 --> 00:18:49,780
Before, okay, just so there's 10 seats right up here.

175
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:56,160
If you're anyone's interested in sitting in here, it's like 10 seats in his first two rows.

176
00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:59,660
And just in case anybody wants to sit down.

177
00:19:00,140 --> 00:19:02,200
All right, so thank you. Thank you very much.

178
00:19:05,710 --> 00:19:06,170
Okay.

179
00:19:07,650 --> 00:19:08,190
Let's see.

180
00:19:08,530 --> 00:19:09,190
Where are we here?

181
00:19:11,830 --> 00:19:12,150
All right.

182
00:19:12,430 --> 00:19:17,270
The next proclamation, the second one, the last one of the celebratory items.

183
00:19:17,770 --> 00:19:21,710
There's a proclamation, support of housing week.

184
00:19:22,490 --> 00:19:24,630
Do we ask someone who's going to speak on housing?

185
00:19:24,990 --> 00:19:26,050
Oh, there we are.

186
00:19:31,700 --> 00:19:32,200
microphone.

187
00:19:35,540 --> 00:19:38,540
I sat and watched but did not learn.

188
00:19:39,300 --> 00:19:41,720
Chair Lee commissioners and members of the Durham community.

189
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:47,160
Thank you for recognizing August 24 through 28 as support of housing week here in Durham County.

190
00:19:47,980 --> 00:19:50,680
Support of housing week is a national observance.

191
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:58,520
Bringing communities across the country together to recognize the impact of supportive housing in the people and partnerships that make it possible.

192
00:19:58,520 --> 00:19:59,980
Here in Durham that

193
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:07,100
Work connects directly to our community's long-time goal of making homelessness rare, brief, and non-recurring.

194
00:20:07,740 --> 00:20:21,600
Supportive housing is an essential part of achieving that goal because it combines affordable housing with customized, individualized services that help people who have experienced homelessness and often other significant challenges achieve long-term stability.

195
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:25,940
For more than 30 years housing for new hope is at the privilege of doing this work in Durham,

196
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,020
alongside an extraordinary network of community partners.

197
00:20:30,700 --> 00:20:34,920
And those years have taught us something important, housing is foundational to ending homelessness,

198
00:20:35,500 --> 00:20:37,780
but housing alone is often not enough.

199
00:20:38,460 --> 00:20:41,140
That's why we have developed an approach we call supportive pathways.

200
00:20:41,980 --> 00:20:46,860
Supportive pathways recognizes six areas of contribute to long-term stability, housing,

201
00:20:47,140 --> 00:20:51,580
mental health, and emotional wellness, substance use recovery, employment and

202
00:20:51,580 --> 00:20:55,900
job readiness, life skills development, and relationship and community building.

203
00:20:56,580 --> 00:21:00,560
The emphasis is on pathways because there isn't one path out of homelessness.

204
00:21:01,420 --> 00:21:04,700
For one neighbor, the next step may be connecting with mental health care.

205
00:21:05,060 --> 00:21:06,380
For another, it may be recovery.

206
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:11,140
For someone else, it may be finding a job, developing the skills needed to maintain a home,

207
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,000
a rebuilding, relationships, and a sense of belonging.

208
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,360
No organization can provide all of those things alone.

209
00:21:17,860 --> 00:21:20,820
That's why our partnership is the heart of supportive housing.

210
00:21:20,820 --> 00:21:26,480
Alliance Health is an essential partner in connecting housing with behavioral health services and supports.

211
00:21:27,020 --> 00:21:31,000
The Duke University School of Nursing helps us strengthen connections to health and wellness.

212
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:36,640
Freedom House Recovery Center brings deep expertise in mental health and substance use recovery

213
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:41,460
and step up Durham helps our neighbors pursue employment and greater economic stability.

214
00:21:42,220 --> 00:21:46,820
And they represent a much larger network of local government, health care, behavioral health providers,

215
00:21:46,820 --> 00:21:52,520
non-profits, landlords, congregations, philanthropy, volunteers, and community members who make

216
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:58,020
this work possible. The impact extends beyond the individuals we serve. Supportive housing

217
00:21:58,020 --> 00:22:02,560
reduces homelessness, improves housing stability and health outcomes, and helps public

218
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:08,160
resources work more effectively. When someone has the stable home and appropriate supports,

219
00:22:08,780 --> 00:22:13,640
emergency rooms, shelters, jails, and other crisis systems are less likely to become

220
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:15,000
substitutes for housing.

221
00:22:15,780 --> 00:22:19,560
So during the support of housing, we celebrate more than buildings or programs.

222
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:24,340
We celebrate people, partnerships, and the belief that homelessness does not have to

223
00:22:24,340 --> 00:22:25,560
define someone's future.

224
00:22:26,180 --> 00:22:31,700
On behalf of housing for new hope and those we serve, thank you for this proclamation and

225
00:22:31,700 --> 00:22:35,320
thank you to the many partners across Durham who make this work possible.

226
00:22:35,860 --> 00:22:39,720
Together we are building a Durham where every neighbor has the opportunity not simply to

227
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:41,360
be housed but to thrive.

228
00:22:41,780 --> 00:22:42,400
Thank you.

229
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,640
Thank you. Thank you.

230
00:22:50,340 --> 00:22:53,980
Here we have comments from the commissioner's commissioner take-ups.

231
00:22:55,260 --> 00:23:10,820
Thank you so much, Russ, for bringing this to us. And thank you, Chantay and all the staff of Housing for New Hope for the incredible work that you do as our nonprofit partner who is providing support of housing in Durham.

232
00:23:10,820 --> 00:23:17,020
I wonder if you could take this opportunity since we have an incredible crowd here tonight

233
00:23:17,540 --> 00:23:24,720
to talk about the new visions that you all are working on for housing for new hope and also

234
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:32,200
to give us an update on the Carver Creek Campus for permanent support of housing several

235
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:39,780
years ago, the city and the county both chipped in to over $6 million dollars to help housing

236
00:23:39,780 --> 00:23:47,740
for new hope by an apartment building and basically create a 14 acres, that right, my right.

237
00:23:47,980 --> 00:23:56,440
11 acre campus for the vision is for permanent support of housing campus. So if you could give us

238
00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:02,560
any updates on both of us. Certainly. So in this season where there are so many changes at the federal

239
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:07,280
level potentially and also at the local level around funding, I think that's been part of our

240
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:11,100
thinking because we were one of the first agencies to bring housing first to North Carolina

241
00:24:11,100 --> 00:24:16,620
nearly 20 years ago. And so that supportive pathways approach of, you know, it's not just

242
00:24:16,620 --> 00:24:21,620
about housing, but it's really customized services based on what people need in order to reach

243
00:24:21,620 --> 00:24:27,040
long-term stability is really critical across the board in our work. Particularly at Carver Creek,

244
00:24:27,180 --> 00:24:37,260
this is 48 units of historically senior affordable housing that was really saved by the

245
00:24:37,260 --> 00:24:40,960
preparing in the next two to three months to begin a first phase of rehabilitation

246
00:24:42,100 --> 00:24:47,220
through the first floor community spaces and some of the units in partnership with

247
00:24:47,220 --> 00:24:51,920
city with CDBG funds. We've also partnered with the county and working with

248
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:57,320
representative Fushi for a second phase potentially of rehabilitation that will

249
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,960
I'm sorry, um, an intern.

250
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:08,500
Greated supportive housing community there between the existing 48 units and additional 24 units that were already there.

251
00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:15,700
And then finally, we have commenced with a new master planning process in partnership with clear skates to look at how that.

252
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:22,740
Those two campuses integrate, but also to look at what additional housing could be added there.

253
00:25:22,740 --> 00:25:30,420
do we go vertical and build 45 units, do we build tiny home clusters based on what the

254
00:25:30,420 --> 00:25:34,280
neighbors that we serve tend to need most. So it's an exciting time, but lots lots

255
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:39,940
happen, yes. Awesome. Very exciting. Thank you. Thank you.

256
00:25:39,940 --> 00:25:44,500
Commissioner, a lot of Vice Chair Alam. Thank you, Chair Lee. Thank you so much for us in

257
00:25:44,500 --> 00:25:48,440
your entire team for being here. I just want to you to also take an opportunity with

258
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,200
this amazing crowd that we have. Can you also share with folks about the point and

259
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:58,920
time count because folks you don't know point in time is just it's the U.S. HUD or housing

260
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:04,560
apartments way of one night a year. Communities, counties, cities go out and count. Try

261
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,800
to get a count of what are unhoused and unsheltered population is so that we can try to figure

262
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:13,980
out how to provide resources and connect folks. If you want to tell folks more about how

263
00:26:13,980 --> 00:26:16,960
housing for New Hope runs that and what we do with that data.

264
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:28,740
Yes, so does have an expectation that every year or so we do a community-wide count of those that are experiencing both unsheltered homelessness,

265
00:26:28,900 --> 00:26:37,360
so the folks that you might see on corners and other spaces in addition to those that are in the shelters.

266
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,160
That gives us a baseline of what's happening in the community.

267
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:50,640
We always say quickly that the number is always larger, but it gives us a sense of the trends and it actually impacts the funding that comes from

268
00:26:51,720 --> 00:27:00,480
To some extent the state was definitely the federal level in terms of our ability to address homelessness. Yeah, and how can people help with that point in time count?

269
00:27:01,860 --> 00:27:02,200
So

270
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:06,680
Generally it happens on the fourth Wednesday of January every year

271
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:11,140
Leadership for that is actually shifting back to the city after a number of years

272
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:19,260
and so we are anxiously looking to see eagerly looking anxious has the word fear in it, eagerly looking to see what plans are for that.

273
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,020
And I think one of the exciting developments is coming here.

274
00:27:22,260 --> 00:27:28,020
Is there a conversation about coordinating with Wake County and Orange County, potentially on the same night,

275
00:27:28,540 --> 00:27:32,280
so that we can get a broader sense of what's happening across the entire triangle,

276
00:27:32,500 --> 00:27:34,700
and that would be a new development for us here in the triangle.

277
00:27:35,540 --> 00:27:37,120
Wonderful. Thank you so much.

278
00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:43,240
I urge everyone if you have the time and January. I've done it. I think most folks on the

279
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:49,360
guys have done it. You go out. I got to ride with a heart team member. Heart is the co-response

280
00:27:50,860 --> 00:27:57,240
response team from the city and we drove around downtown Durham and we stopped and when we'd see someone

281
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:02,520
who is on-house on sheltered, stop asking questions, see what resources they needed and were able

282
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:09,280
document so that then hard officers can follow up with them to see if they've been able to find

283
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:15,100
housing or just providing that data to HUD so we can get funding to provide support. So that

284
00:28:15,100 --> 00:28:21,300
is a volunteer mostly driven campaign. So folks can come out and help with that. The more folks

285
00:28:21,300 --> 00:28:25,680
we have, the better count we can get. Absolutely.

286
00:28:29,810 --> 00:28:31,310
Thank you Vice Chair Alam.

287
00:28:39,060 --> 00:28:40,140
Commissioner Burton

288
00:28:40,140 --> 00:28:45,500
did you have anything? Okay, thank you very much. Thank you. Okay, so that

289
00:28:47,710 --> 00:28:50,710
that's the end of our

290
00:28:50,710 --> 00:28:58,480
ceremonial items and next item on our agenda is the consent agenda. These items have come from

291
00:28:59,010 --> 00:29:06,890
various meetings of mainly our work session but before we approve the consent agenda we have

292
00:29:06,890 --> 00:29:13,210
the comment on two of the items. So we're going to have the pool two and that public comment

293
00:29:13,210 --> 00:29:19,990
will come at the end of the meeting where we have the items pulled from consent. The items

294
00:29:19,990 --> 00:29:32,530
to be pulled, 26, 0, 4, 2, 1, that's 26, 0, 4, 2, 1, and then 26, 0, 4, 4, 1.

295
00:29:33,310 --> 00:29:40,370
Each one of those has a public comment, request it on those, so we will pull those, and we'll

296
00:29:40,370 --> 00:29:42,230
vote on those separately, OK?

297
00:29:42,690 --> 00:29:42,910
Good.

298
00:29:44,270 --> 00:29:48,990
I'm running this, pulling wondering, should we, I know we approve the agenda, could we amend

299
00:29:48,990 --> 00:29:55,410
agenda to move that like the items pulled from consent to before the public hearing since

300
00:29:55,410 --> 00:29:59,970
that public hearing will likely be a long period and we don't want it like it's staff.

301
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,620
We need to stay back. We don't have stuff waiting.

302
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:05,400
Have you discussed that?

303
00:30:06,220 --> 00:30:07,880
Do we not have to vote to move that?

304
00:30:09,260 --> 00:30:11,920
All right. So let's make a vote.

305
00:30:12,220 --> 00:30:21,140
Let's all accept the motion to move items removed from the, from consent agenda to just after the consent agenda.

306
00:30:22,540 --> 00:30:24,980
So staff would not have to wait.

307
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:31,920
Second, we have a motion on the floor to move the items move from Consent Agenda to

308
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,640
be properly seconded. Any further discussion? All in favor say aye?

309
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:41,940
Aye. All opposed, but you should use the same sign. Okay, so that item will be moved right

310
00:30:41,940 --> 00:30:45,600
after the Consent Agenda, right after we vote to remain a Consent Agenda.

311
00:30:47,780 --> 00:30:48,420
I Commissioner

312
00:30:48,420 --> 00:30:57,020
Jacob's. Just had a quick question for our library director. I'm really thrilled to see

313
00:30:58,100 --> 00:31:09,240
item 26-4-1-1 about doing a library master facilities plan. It's Dana still. Okay, great

314
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:17,080
awesome. Really glad to see this. This is an appropriate use of general fun balance since

315
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:25,380
one time funding. Just wondering if you could tell us a little bit about your thoughts, you know,

316
00:31:25,380 --> 00:31:33,480
you're coming in from other library systems, you know, what your hopes are for this. And also,

317
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:42,260
will this also look at like the current library conditions and things that we need to keep

318
00:31:42,260 --> 00:31:51,040
up with like maintenance and repair was one of my questions, what the time frame is for the plan.

319
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:58,400
This is for the manager, do we have money in our CIP for the for library improvements?

320
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:06,140
And then my last question is, and I was over at the main library today, originally because

321
00:32:06,140 --> 00:32:13,460
was part of renovating the library. When you walk in, the area off to the right was originally

322
00:32:13,460 --> 00:32:22,520
envisioned to be like a coffee shop, which is a great enterprise opportunity for small business

323
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:36,120
plus that we could raise money for the library, you know, at the Austin Library, even the little

324
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,840
as a part of this, or maybe even we don't need to wait for this.

325
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:42,580
Let me see if I can address all of those questions.

326
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:48,120
So this facility master plan will allow us to engage a consultant to look at the entire

327
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:52,240
county and determine do we have libraries where we are meeting the needs of the community?

328
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:57,320
And if we don't, where are those areas that we need additional libraries?

329
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:03,180
And if we have libraries already in those places such as our regional libraries, are they meeting

330
00:33:03,180 --> 00:33:03,600
the needs?

331
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:09,220
they need to be expanded, do we need, what we need to do to those libraries to make sure that

332
00:33:09,220 --> 00:33:13,360
they can meet the needs of the community. As far as looking at main library, we had a different

333
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:19,480
facility master plan for that years ago that resulted in the new main library. So we'll pay attention

334
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:23,120
to it some, but not as much as we will to the rest of the county.

335
00:33:25,140 --> 00:33:28,420
Generally, the money, not my

336
00:33:28,420 --> 00:33:33,880
department, but it would be entered as part of a capital improvement plan, which I think we're

337
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:40,360
talking about later in the year. So, the facility master plan will take some time to complete,

338
00:33:40,380 --> 00:33:46,620
and we'll do that in conjunction with the county engineering department. As far as the cafe area

339
00:33:46,620 --> 00:33:51,900
in the main library, we can certainly look at that. Some of my experience with food and food

340
00:33:51,900 --> 00:33:56,640
services and libraries has, I've had quite a bit of it and some of it's been positive and

341
00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:00,860
of it's been negative. So it would require a lot of study for us to be able to determine if that's

342
00:34:00,860 --> 00:34:07,060
something that we can look at. We've also been talking with the friends of the library about a long

343
00:34:07,060 --> 00:34:12,360
term plan of selling Durham County Library swag through the friends of the library and that way

344
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:19,940
it's not coming through the library budgets. Did I catch all your questions? Thank you so much and I look

345
00:34:19,940 --> 00:34:25,200
forward to the next steps with the plan and also hearing more about what to how to really activate

346
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,600
that space. Thank you.

347
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:33,400
All right. Any other comments from commissioners? Okay. I'll accept the motion to approve

348
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:41,840
the consent agenda. Minus the two that removed. That's 26-0-421 and 26-0-441.

349
00:34:42,140 --> 00:34:43,300
Some moved. Second.

350
00:34:44,140 --> 00:34:45,640
All right. We have a motion on the floor.

351
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,800
Some properly moved and seconded. Any further discussion?

352
00:34:51,980 --> 00:34:55,060
All in favor say aye? All right. All opposed, please. She's the same.

353
00:34:55,060 --> 00:34:56,900
I'm sorry, passes unanimously.

354
00:34:57,820 --> 00:34:59,980
The first item pulled from...

355
00:35:00,500 --> 00:35:12,660
The council agenda is 20421, which is approval of property tax releases and refunds for June 2026.

356
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:17,120
We have a public comment from Pablo Friedman.

357
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,400
All right, good evening, Chair Lee.

358
00:35:45,700 --> 00:35:52,300
Vice Chair, alum members of the County Commissioner, the hundreds of folks in the audience and the millions of people that watch these meetings online.

359
00:35:52,300 --> 00:35:59,400
So, I was the one person that pulled this item and I pulled it for one important reason.

360
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:09,860
These properties are entitled to the refunds, but the public deserves the minutes for why the board granted billions of dollars of property tax

361
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:14,500
removals for commercial property owners and those minutes still have not been posted.

362
00:36:15,420 --> 00:36:20,000
The last meeting that you had with the City Council, the City Council members, point blank questions,

363
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:25,220
somewhat pointed terms when are those minutes coming? When the reporter from the indie week asked

364
00:36:25,220 --> 00:36:30,100
those minutes to be produced, they still weren't produced. And so while these properties are

365
00:36:30,100 --> 00:36:33,840
entitled to their refunds, I think the public at a minimum, whether you agree with these property

366
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:34,760
valuation,

367
00:36:36,940 --> 00:36:41,260
billions of dollars or not, we the public, the taxpayers deserve an answer as to

368
00:36:41,260 --> 00:36:45,060
how they were granted. In the only way we will ever know, we stood the minutes and the minutes

369
00:36:45,060 --> 00:36:50,940
have not been posted. So to ask tonight, one is I like the county attorney to issue some guidance

370
00:36:50,940 --> 00:36:55,940
to these boards to follow the public records act. That's number one and number two, I want

371
00:36:55,940 --> 00:37:00,640
commissioners on the diet to say something publicly about these minutes. We deserve them. The

372
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,880
public deserves some white commercial owners got to write up billions of dollars

373
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:24,220
of the

374
00:37:24,220 --> 00:37:30,100
the same? Nope. Okay, thank you. Yes,

375
00:37:36,460 --> 00:37:40,360
Kira Doyle. Good afternoon, commissioners,

376
00:37:40,500 --> 00:37:44,000
Kira Doyle, tax administrator, a little to the public.

377
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:48,120
Everyone's here tonight. I do want to address the

378
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,220
the records that have been requested have been provided.

379
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,480
The Durham County Department of Tax Administration has never

380
00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:04,840
Post it meeting meeting minutes on our public website there are some minutes on the website

381
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:12,160
They are from 2023 and 2024 and they're specific to personal property. So the minutes that we're requested

382
00:38:13,100 --> 00:38:17,260
And have been requested have been provided to those requests

383
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:22,540
Anybody who would like those can please send a request to public information

384
00:38:22,540 --> 00:38:26,900
There's one thing that needs to be said about minutes and about anything requested.

385
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:33,040
It is illegal for Durham County Tax Administration or Durham County to provide confidential

386
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:33,820
information.

387
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:39,540
So the information that is deemed to be confidential within those minutes that you are requesting

388
00:38:39,540 --> 00:38:41,400
has to be redacted.

389
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:42,240
That is about law.

390
00:38:42,300 --> 00:38:44,280
That is not a choice that we make here.

391
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:44,940
All right.

392
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,460
So just in general, so that everybody understands.

393
00:38:47,460 --> 00:38:54,540
If you go to Durham County website and you pull up minutes for anything related to Durham County

394
00:38:54,540 --> 00:39:00,280
tax department, you will see some minutes and they are from 2023 and 2024, there are no

395
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,180
minutes prior to that and there are no minutes after that.

396
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,800
So it's not specific to 2025's real presence.

397
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,840
There was a 2019 or 2016 or 2008 real presence.

398
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:13,300
There are no minutes for any of them.

399
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:13,860
All right.

400
00:39:13,860 --> 00:39:21,320
So there were minutes, specific 2, 23 and 24, and you can see them there still there and nobody

401
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:22,680
removed them.

402
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:28,200
But minutes, specific 2, a particular year, can be requested.

403
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:33,060
We will provide them, but I do want you to know that there is no confidential information

404
00:39:33,060 --> 00:39:33,560
within.

405
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:34,580
All right?

406
00:39:35,700 --> 00:39:38,580
Any more questions from the board or the public?

407
00:39:38,580 --> 00:39:48,060
Thank you Mr. Doyle and I understand residents frustration around the reevaluation and how much money

408
00:39:48,060 --> 00:39:58,240
was refunded to commercial property owners. Can you explain briefly why that occurred?

409
00:39:58,240 --> 00:39:59,980
Um, because I know our res...

410
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:15,360
Residents, and when they saw that number, it was very large, and we want to be as transparent as possible. So if you can explain briefly why that occurred and state laws and things of that nature, thank you.

411
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:23,000
It's not a real brief response to that question, but I'll try my best to be respectful to time, but it's transparent responsible.

412
00:40:24,420 --> 00:40:29,720
The overall real principle for 2025 result today in 10,500 appeals.

413
00:40:30,860 --> 00:40:32,860
10,500 or 33 to be exact.

414
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:40,800
Any responsibility or error or problems or a finger point needs to be pointed directly at the text.

415
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:47,560
I'm in a state of my self-care, our door, the Board of Equalization and Review, the Tax

416
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:50,980
Office, the staff, everybody did a wonderful job.

417
00:40:51,240 --> 00:40:58,940
I went out and I asked you all to appeal, and you did, and you gave us 10,000, 5,000, and

418
00:40:58,940 --> 00:41:01,460
a 33, more than we'd ever seen, all right?

419
00:41:02,240 --> 00:41:08,240
The goal was to make sure that those appeals were done before January 5th.

420
00:41:08,240 --> 00:41:13,300
That's the number one era we did not get the appeals done by January 5, which means that

421
00:41:13,300 --> 00:41:18,180
we were still handing appeals, we were handling appeals and processing appeals after

422
00:41:18,180 --> 00:41:20,140
delinquency, okay?

423
00:41:21,020 --> 00:41:27,600
These things impact more than just value in regards to people's property values, it affects

424
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:28,800
Durham County's budget.

425
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:36,420
So the number one thing that happened was our office not handling 10,500 appeals by January

426
00:41:36,420 --> 00:41:37,000
5.

427
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:38,840
That's the number one thing.

428
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:47,320
All right, the second thing is that there are two property types in the commercial realm that were over assessed.

429
00:41:48,620 --> 00:41:51,220
Not assessed and then given a discount.

430
00:41:51,420 --> 00:41:52,800
That's very important to understand.

431
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:58,360
They were over assessed to begin with two particular property types.

432
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:05,120
All right, those things were adjusted, and they were adjusted downward, and those adjustments

433
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,280
impacted our overall value.

434
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:15,520
The overall value was an increase from roughly 53 billion to about 80 billion, 85 billion.

435
00:42:16,140 --> 00:42:20,200
Somewhere in that ballpark, 4 billion was adjusted.

436
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:28,380
So, in the grand scheme of things, 30 billion increase, a $4 billion decrease came afterwards.

437
00:42:31,220 --> 00:42:38,540
The two main property types to answer the question that was asked, two main property types within the commercial properties,

438
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:48,140
those being apartments, and office buildings, experienced the largest adjustments that was not an act of a Board of Equalization and Review.

439
00:42:49,020 --> 00:42:53,880
If you appeal to property in this room, you know that you file an appeal, you hear from an

440
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:59,620
appraiser, adjustments can be made, and then that value goes before the Board of Equalization

441
00:42:59,620 --> 00:43:03,460
and Review for the final authority and approval or denial.

442
00:43:04,700 --> 00:43:09,520
But an appraiser cannot sell the value for you, you have to go before the Board.

443
00:43:09,820 --> 00:43:16,580
So the Board has the final say, it doesn't mean that they cut value themselves, it means

444
00:43:16,580 --> 00:43:22,260
they have to vote on the value that is given to them, that they hear before them and that

445
00:43:22,260 --> 00:43:29,400
particularly hearing. So that is a misconception or a false narrative that the Board of

446
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:34,960
Equalsation and Review by themselves reduced the whole bunch of values. That's not how the

447
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:41,300
process works. Anybody in this room who has a pill to property understands that in the other

448
00:43:49,670 --> 00:43:56,910
I was saying going to ask Mr. Doyle, obviously, I know you stated that we would have to

449
00:43:56,910 --> 00:44:03,310
redact anything confidential, which is probably a significant part of the minutes because

450
00:44:03,310 --> 00:44:09,050
it's talking about people's property, addresses, everything, personal information.

451
00:44:11,740 --> 00:44:12,120
Is there

452
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:20,160
Besides the amount of time that that would consume for staff to be able to post the full meeting

453
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:25,680
minutes for the 2025 for Board of Equalization Review, are there any legal restrictions

454
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,340
that would block us from publishing those or concerns?

455
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:31,160
Publishing them online?

456
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:33,080
Yeah, on the board of the.

457
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:37,660
I do not believe so there is no requirement by the state that they'd be published on

458
00:44:37,660 --> 00:44:45,160
actual website that it is a requirement that we we deliver the pun request that it is

459
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:50,040
public information so if anybody asks for that information we have to deliver it it has

460
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:55,420
to be reductive from confidential information but it is not a requirement that it

461
00:44:55,420 --> 00:44:59,720
be posted to a website that was the only misconception I believe that was

462
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:15,940
Because the question was asked, and it looked like something was being done and it stopped, that was, I understand that confusing, but there were never, there was never a practice of this particular county, posting minutes on the website.

463
00:45:17,540 --> 00:45:20,560
But it can be, if you're requesting, can we, yes.

464
00:45:21,720 --> 00:45:26,800
If it's, I mean, we would have to find out like how many pages it is and how much time it would take, obviously.

465
00:45:27,460 --> 00:45:30,500
Yeah, it's 10,000 fathers and 33 records.

466
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:38,200
Seeing how much time it takes, and then like maybe it's not going to happen overnight,

467
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:45,940
but if that is something that there is capacity for staffing to be able to

468
00:45:45,940 --> 00:45:50,340
redact and post, I think would ease some concerns for residents.

469
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:56,720
We will certainly do that. It's your request.

470
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:07,020
Anyone else, questions for these topics, please items?

471
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:09,580
They're a pool off a concert.

472
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:12,920
A commissioner take those.

473
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:18,880
I just want to thank you, PR, for providing information to the community.

474
00:46:19,860 --> 00:46:22,940
We do not control tax laws in North Carolina.

475
00:46:22,940 --> 00:46:32,740
They are from the state legislature and we have to follow what the rules and the laws are according to state statute.

476
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:50,820
And so I know that there are a lot of things that are frustrating about how personal property tax is calculated and measured versus commercial and apartments.

477
00:46:50,820 --> 00:46:57,160
There are, if you could explain, there are like three different methods of appraising property

478
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:06,740
and so there are more tools for people when it comes to commercial and office than residential

479
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:18,200
and if people are very concerned about this issue then it's important to for us to see change at the state level

480
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:22,400
because we don't have that authority at the local level.

481
00:47:23,940 --> 00:47:27,380
And it's also a process where our board is not directly involved.

482
00:47:28,140 --> 00:47:33,920
The Board of Equalsation and Review is a quasi judicial board.

483
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:39,260
And so, and they are also following the states to add to it.

484
00:47:39,420 --> 00:47:45,140
And people who are not happy with what the Board of Equalsation and Review has done.

485
00:47:45,140 --> 00:47:55,400
They have the ability to go to the state level, to the North Carolina property tax commission as a correct.

486
00:47:56,140 --> 00:48:03,860
But anyway, if you could maybe explain about the differences in the methods of the appraisal too, I think that.

487
00:48:03,860 --> 00:48:05,820
I know that was helpful for me personally.

488
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:13,960
So the three approaches to value are the cost approach, sales comparison approach and the income approach.

489
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:24,980
The income approach is the beneficiary that these commercial properties are deemed to have received and it's really just a matter of the type of property type.

490
00:48:26,240 --> 00:48:36,960
So property types dictate which particular use is going to be the use that is going to be the deciding factor or the judge for this particular property.

491
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:37,480
All right,

492
00:48:39,500 --> 00:48:53,260
so income properties, you would assume we've used the income approach, I live in a home, my home is owner occupied, that home would not use the income approach.

493
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:56,400
It's going to be based on the cost of approach, sales comparison approach.

494
00:48:57,220 --> 00:49:06,200
If I move out of my home and I rent that home, I might be able to use the income approach, because I'm in another property that property is now a rental property.

495
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:10,700
is based on, I'm using it for income. I have rents.

496
00:49:12,720 --> 00:49:15,380
The property type dictates the use.

497
00:49:17,340 --> 00:49:21,640
So we as residents who property owners who live in our homes, unfortunately we do not get

498
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:28,620
to benefit of the income approach. That is an appraisal practice. That is not somebody's decision

499
00:49:28,620 --> 00:49:33,900
that they're sitting around deciding on their own. That is an appraisal practice. All right?

500
00:49:34,620 --> 00:49:59,680
And just to speak to one more thing that the Commissioner mentioned, just so that you all know, in September of 2025, we went before the board, actually I believe this was, yes, definitely September 2025 went before the Board of County Commissioners, this board right here, voted to start a second Board of Equalization and Review. The goal is to get more members involved.

501
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:05,800
More people hearing cases to get the cases done before January 5th.

502
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:11,660
We didn't get enough people applying to fill up a second board.

503
00:50:12,580 --> 00:50:22,780
Just so that you know, the effort was there, they voted, they allowed us to ask, they allowed these people to post it on the website. We didn't get applicants.

504
00:50:24,020 --> 00:50:37,520
So that was the effort in September of 2025, much prior to January 5 to try to get a little more runway, a lot more accomplished in that small period of time.

505
00:50:37,660 --> 00:50:39,420
Just wanted to make sure that that was mentioned.

506
00:50:39,780 --> 00:50:44,200
But the three approaches to value cost approach, sense comparison approach and income approach.

507
00:50:49,910 --> 00:50:50,630
Commissioner Burton.

508
00:50:51,110 --> 00:50:52,710
Yeah, thank you, Mr. Doyle, for that.

509
00:50:52,710 --> 00:51:01,330
And I think this is important for our residents to understand that the state controls a lot of things.

510
00:51:02,950 --> 00:51:08,330
And I think they think we have a lot of more authority than we actually have.

511
00:51:09,150 --> 00:51:16,510
And also it's important when we have these committees and commissions and such to apply for them.

512
00:51:16,510 --> 00:51:23,930
we want residents to apply for these boards to be involved and like Mr. Doyle said we approved

513
00:51:23,930 --> 00:51:29,970
for another board of the Equalization and Review a second one to get through these evaluations

514
00:51:29,970 --> 00:51:41,110
and we hardly had anyone to apply. So I know that it feels like I know people are upset and angry

515
00:51:41,110 --> 00:51:47,990
about what occurred with the reevaluation, that's why it's important that we vote for the right

516
00:51:47,990 --> 00:51:54,310
people at the state legislature to change laws at the state level. At the county commissioner

517
00:51:54,310 --> 00:52:00,250
level, we do not make laws. The legislature makes the law. So thank you, Mr. Doyle, for that.

518
00:52:00,830 --> 00:52:03,950
And I yield back to the chair. Okay.

519
00:52:06,460 --> 00:52:06,920
Commissioner Valentine.

520
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:18,880
A chair actually have a question for you with respect to Commissioner Lam talking about transparency and accountability and whether or not the administrator and his office has capability.

521
00:52:20,720 --> 00:52:22,300
I don't want to just leave that hang it out.

522
00:52:23,540 --> 00:52:30,400
I think that we should probably handle that in some kind of way with respect to giving guidance as opposed to it.

523
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:38,080
So it just lingers you out there and it's not addressing what I think probably needs to be addressed here this evening.

524
00:52:38,660 --> 00:52:48,500
So the request was to give us an estimate of amount of time that it would take or to just do it.

525
00:52:48,940 --> 00:52:57,180
I think I think a timeline, yes, of publishing the meeting minutes, more specifically around the

526
00:52:57,180 --> 00:52:58,920
evaluation near what we, they don't,

527
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:01,160
board of equalization review only meets during

528
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:02,720
Revaluation, right?

529
00:53:02,740 --> 00:53:04,940
Or do they meet outside of revolutions, too?

530
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:07,820
Board of equalization review just finished meeting

531
00:53:07,820 --> 00:53:10,940
for 20, 26, about two weeks ago, they meet every year.

532
00:53:12,730 --> 00:53:16,550
Then I think at least if we can start with the records,

533
00:53:16,550 --> 00:53:19,750
request that the records related to the revolutions,

534
00:53:20,470 --> 00:53:21,130
getting those published,

535
00:53:21,330 --> 00:53:25,190
because I think that's the ones that are most questions about.

536
00:53:27,590 --> 00:53:29,450
Publish on the Web site?

537
00:53:30,590 --> 00:53:30,970
Okay.

538
00:53:32,250 --> 00:53:34,990
With the redactions.

539
00:53:35,790 --> 00:53:36,170
So.

540
00:53:38,290 --> 00:53:40,110
Larissa, you want to?

541
00:53:40,610 --> 00:53:40,910
Yeah.

542
00:53:41,410 --> 00:53:46,250
I would say that that would need to be done in coordination with my office,

543
00:53:46,390 --> 00:53:49,770
and sure that no confidential information is released.

544
00:53:49,770 --> 00:53:56,430
And we would need to work together to see what exactly it is that we would be dealing with.

545
00:53:56,950 --> 00:54:07,330
So I know for me it would be a little difficult to give a timeline without knowing exactly what we're working with the amount of time that it would take to redact any confidential information.

546
00:54:07,330 --> 00:54:13,390
How much confidential information may be included that would also affect the timeline as well.

547
00:54:14,370 --> 00:54:19,130
So we can work together and maybe come back with that.

548
00:54:19,130 --> 00:54:24,910
Maybe at our work session, if we can receive like an update of this is how long it'll take us.

549
00:54:26,860 --> 00:54:27,920
I'm okay with that.

550
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:38,780
My main issue is just ensuring that based on the unprecedented nature of the chain of events regarding this text cycle that we being transparent as we can.

551
00:54:38,860 --> 00:54:39,660
I think that's important.

552
00:54:40,720 --> 00:54:41,880
I just have one quick comment.

553
00:54:41,980 --> 00:54:48,860
I agree that we should come back and also share context what other counties are doing and benchmarking

554
00:54:48,860 --> 00:54:58,900
sort of what a best practice is considering the volume and the time-lineness of the information and then the laws that surround what we're doing.

555
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:08,840
To be transparent, and we want to be responsive, it's also what does that look like in trying to achieve both.

556
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:16,580
So do we feel comfortable with that instruction to staff?

557
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:20,460
I feel comfortable with that.

558
00:55:20,460 --> 00:55:21,580
I feel comfortable with that.

559
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:23,340
All right, good.

560
00:55:24,180 --> 00:55:27,140
So the staff has instructions.

561
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:29,500
Okay, thank you, Mr. Dorgon.

562
00:55:29,500 --> 00:55:37,260
All right, I'll accept the motion to approve the two items 26, 0, 4, 2, 1, and 26, 0, 4, 4, 1.

563
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:39,440
That was pulled off of the consent agenda.

564
00:55:39,940 --> 00:55:40,900
Sammo second.

565
00:55:41,220 --> 00:55:42,460
It's been moving probably second.

566
00:55:42,580 --> 00:55:45,740
We approve the two items removed from the consent agenda.

567
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:47,120
All of every say aye.

568
00:55:48,100 --> 00:55:49,660
All opposed please use the same sign.

569
00:55:50,460 --> 00:55:51,180
Passage unanimously.

570
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:52,300
Okay.

571
00:55:54,720 --> 00:55:57,180
That was the completion of the consent agenda

572
00:55:57,180 --> 00:56:00,160
and the items removed from the consent agenda.

573
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:07,040
All right, moving on with our agenda, the next item that we have is our public hearings.

574
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:08,660
We just have one today.

575
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:13,580
In case you guys didn't know, we have a public hearing today.

576
00:56:16,140 --> 00:56:27,440
All right, so I'll open the public hearing and we'll hear from staff first and then we'll have questions

577
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:38,780
If it should there be any from the county commissioners after that we will start with our public comment within the public hearing.

578
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:48,960
Once public comment has been completed, we'll close the public hearing and then the commissioners will have an opportunity to make their statements.

579
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:56,080
make statements and then we'll vote on the outcome of whatever the outcome would be within the

580
00:56:56,080 --> 00:57:06,920
For the public hearing. Okay, that's the process. That's the kind of the way to public hearings work. All right, so I'll open it while the hearing and we'll hear from staff

581
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:18,300
Thank you, Chair Lee and good evening everyone. I'm Maurice Jones deputy county manager tonight the Board of Commissioners as the chair mentioned will be holding a public hearing to consider a

582
00:57:18,300 --> 00:57:23,000
proposed temporary moratorium on the development of data centers in Durham County.

583
00:57:23,660 --> 00:57:27,660
We look forward to receiving feedback from the public answering any questions.

584
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:33,060
The board may have on this issue hearing the discussion amongst the commissioners and then

585
00:57:33,060 --> 00:57:35,740
if ready having the board vote on the moratorium.

586
00:57:46,790 --> 00:57:49,690
We'll begin by providing a general definition of a data center.

587
00:57:50,030 --> 00:57:52,550
They are physical facilities or buildings at House,

588
00:57:52,550 --> 00:57:59,450
groups of networked computer servers and data storage infrastructure used by companies to organize

589
00:57:59,450 --> 00:58:04,470
process, store, and share large amounts of digital information.

590
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:13,780
There are different types of data centers, largely defined by their uses and size.

591
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:19,180
Here are four of the more common descriptions, cloud or hyperscaled data centers, those are

592
00:58:19,180 --> 00:58:24,060
large facilities, used by companies like Google, Meta, and Amazon to manage their data

593
00:58:24,060 --> 00:58:31,340
A.I. focus, those are large facilities with a heavy emphasis on artificial intelligence.

594
00:58:32,580 --> 00:58:36,540
Enterprise data centers, those are smaller buildings used for internal use.

595
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:42,280
Many times they are secondary uses for an institution like the hospital or a university.

596
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:49,580
And edge data centers, those are smaller data centers used to speed up processes for local users.

597
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:57,160
Although data centers have become an important part of our everyday lives,

598
00:58:57,160 --> 00:59:02,840
There are, as all of you know, growing concerns about the impact on the environment, electricity

599
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:07,380
use, water usage, and the noise they generate for their neighbors.

600
00:59:10,900 --> 00:59:15,720
These issues have led to concerns about the future of data centers around the country and

601
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:20,700
here in Durham, especially because our current unified development ordinance has not addressed

602
00:59:20,700 --> 00:59:25,320
how data centers can be regulated, leaving us potentially vulnerable to the construction

603
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:27,220
of hyper-scale facilities.

604
00:59:27,940 --> 00:59:32,940
Currently we do not have specific definitions for data centers, data processing facilities,

605
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:39,780
cryptocurrency mining operations, or any other uses associated with data processing.

606
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:44,380
This issue is not exclusive to Durham County.

607
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:50,220
Many local governments in North Carolina are now catching up on this growing use, leading

608
00:59:50,220 --> 00:59:53,540
to a significant increase in moratorium across the state.

609
00:59:53,540 --> 00:59:57,580
And estimated 30 localities have passed

610
00:59:57,580 --> 00:59:59,980
more Torium, more Toriums, and more Toriums.

611
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:12,820
Last six months. In each case, like ours, a moratorium was passed to provide staff. The time they needed to research this complex issue and to engage the community through the regulatory processes.

612
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:27,640
Our proposed moratorium will prohibit the development of new, large data centers in Durham County. It's proposed to be nine months long in order to align with the city of Durham's moratorium, which was passed back in June.

613
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:34,120
There is an exception being proposed for the enterprise or edge size data centers.

614
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:38,900
This exemption of data centers was offered in order to help ensure that an application

615
01:00:38,900 --> 01:00:44,820
for smaller scale data centers can move forward, especially in the research triangle park.

616
01:00:45,340 --> 01:00:50,800
While still protecting the public against the more concerning byproducts of larger scale data centers.

617
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:56,700
The exemption is limited to a maximum of 100,000 square feet during the moratorium.

618
01:00:56,700 --> 01:01:05,280
This is roughly the average size of an enterprise data center and well-short of the hyper-scaled projects that we have found through our research.

619
01:01:05,900 --> 01:01:13,280
Those hyper-scaled centers tend to be roughly a minimum of 200,000 square feet and can be as large as millions of square feet.

620
01:01:16,660 --> 01:01:28,380
So this evening we'll hear the public, we'll have the public hearing, and the Board of Commissioners discussion, and then a vote if appropriate, and then once it is approved, the regulatory process will continue.

621
01:01:28,380 --> 01:01:33,120
And I'd like to turn the presentation over to Sarah Young, the director of planning and development

622
01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:42,580
to discuss what we should expect in the coming months leading up to a discussion next year about the future of data centers in Durham County.

623
01:01:45,580 --> 01:01:49,020
Good evening, commissioners, Sarah Young, director of planning and development.

624
01:01:49,740 --> 01:01:57,880
We have already begun working on the research phase of the project to develop regulations that address data center uses.

625
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:06,460
We have been meeting with representatives from the Environmental Affairs Board and are involving them in the process.

626
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:13,640
We have been part of a working group with the Central Pines Regional Council to work on this.

627
01:02:13,940 --> 01:02:22,340
Our regional perspective, so there's a lot of research and best practices coming out of that work group, including model ordinance that they've been working on.

628
01:02:22,340 --> 01:02:44,560
We expect to have a draft of regulations prepared roughly by December and our first stop would be to present that to the Joint City County Planning Committee at their December meeting for discussion and then depending on the direction that we get at that body we would move forward to initiate the adoption process after the first of the year.

629
01:02:49,740 --> 01:02:52,800
And then we'll take any questions that the commissioner says.

630
01:02:57,820 --> 01:02:59,860
So, do you have comments?

631
01:03:00,200 --> 01:03:00,500
Questions?

632
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:01,240
Okay.

633
01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:04,640
I'll go with the e-vice share along.

634
01:03:06,180 --> 01:03:07,000
Then Commissioner Valentine.

635
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:09,200
Then Commissioner Jacobs.

636
01:03:10,100 --> 01:03:10,760
Thank you, Julie.

637
01:03:11,180 --> 01:03:11,780
Thank you.

638
01:03:11,860 --> 01:03:15,020
Deputy County Manager Jones and Planning Director, Sarah.

639
01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:17,000
I have some questions at the end,

640
01:03:17,060 --> 01:03:19,720
but I just wanted to make a few comments before I got to my question.

641
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:26,140
because, and to preface my comments, I have said this, you know, I think I've talked

642
01:03:26,140 --> 01:03:34,120
to everyone, almost, that I don't, my issues around, I have issues around obviously the

643
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:39,500
language of the North Korean, but also the process that we have been going through, and I

644
01:03:39,500 --> 01:03:46,220
know, I've talked to folks about this, that at our meeting on August 3rd, we had a public

645
01:03:46,220 --> 01:03:50,560
work session where we had this discussion about the date of Senator Mortorium.

646
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:58,060
And during that discussion, we all kind of like stated our stances on the Mortorium

647
01:03:58,060 --> 01:04:00,460
language and what was drafted then.

648
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:05,860
But at the end of that discussion item, I had asked clarifying next step so that if we

649
01:04:05,860 --> 01:04:12,660
could ask each commissioner to state where they are at on this issue and from that conversation

650
01:04:12,660 --> 01:04:17,940
a majority of us stated at that meeting that we were in one layer and other opposed to carbelts.

651
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:23,900
And I went back and I watched the meeting as well to make sure that I didn't misremember.

652
01:04:24,940 --> 01:04:31,100
But then when we got the draft on our agenda, the agenda that we're talking about today, it didn't

653
01:04:31,100 --> 01:04:40,100
include the carbelts. So my issue is beyond just the moratorium language is as a port of commissioners

654
01:04:40,100 --> 01:04:46,240
When we conduct public meetings, when we're telling staff what our policy stands is on,

655
01:04:46,340 --> 01:04:48,300
stuff that is us giving direction to staff.

656
01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:53,620
And that's one of our roles and responsibilities by General Statute.

657
01:04:54,920 --> 01:04:59,960
And it also in General Statute says that when we have public policy decisions at these hearings and del...

658
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:07,940
Laborations that it's supposed to be public. And so I have a significant concern, the fact that a majority

659
01:05:07,940 --> 01:05:14,760
of the board stated that we were opposed to carve outs, but then in between that public meeting

660
01:05:15,270 --> 01:05:22,220
to our agenda being posted, what a majority of the board said was not reflected in the draft

661
01:05:22,220 --> 01:05:29,480
that we're discussing today. Because that creates a significant break in trust of the public, if

662
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:34,660
are watching our meeting and they see, okay, majority of folks are leaning this way, but then

663
01:05:34,660 --> 01:05:39,620
if folks change their mind, that's completely fine. I have no issue with folks shaking their

664
01:05:39,620 --> 01:05:45,320
mind. I have changed my mind between a work session and a final vote or a meeting and a final

665
01:05:45,320 --> 01:05:55,420
vote, but our greater issue is that change happened not on this dice, that if there was a public

666
01:05:55,420 --> 01:06:01,180
conversation, and we're relieving the public with the perception of like, okay, this is what they can expect as next steps

667
01:06:01,180 --> 01:06:03,040
but then they see something else

668
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:08,700
I think that is a great concern for how we govern and how local

669
01:06:09,260 --> 01:06:11,500
bodies shouldn't be working

670
01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:13,040
And

671
01:06:19,410 --> 01:06:26,910
I wanted to bring up like an example because I also had like a lesson learned and I have been reflecting a lot about this related to

672
01:06:27,510 --> 01:06:31,590
how we've had issues in the past about, you know, when we haven't had conversations

673
01:06:31,590 --> 01:06:37,270
out in public, and how it has come back and not only did us in the blood, but also

674
01:06:37,270 --> 01:06:43,230
just was not the proper way that we should have done things of, like, for example, with pride

675
01:06:43,230 --> 01:06:50,050
last year. That was something that were conversations, and I was chair, so I own that I could

676
01:06:50,050 --> 01:06:55,390
have conducted that practice better, and that's something that I've learned. But there was decisions

677
01:06:55,390 --> 01:06:59,150
made about funding that weren't done in public.

678
01:06:59,630 --> 01:07:02,570
And that caused a lot of grave concern and confusion to folks.

679
01:07:03,570 --> 01:07:07,110
And I think it's important for us that should be a reflection for us that we need to bring

680
01:07:07,110 --> 01:07:10,830
more of these conversations out into the public and have them deliberated.

681
01:07:11,190 --> 01:07:15,690
And for folks to hear and be able to state if they do change their minds, if they have

682
01:07:15,690 --> 01:07:20,470
one stance or another stance, the public knows what brought them to that.

683
01:07:20,470 --> 01:07:37,030
And so I wanted that from last year, and that is why I've consistently said throughout this process that I support this moratorium being a temporary moratorium that our end goal is really the utio changes.

684
01:07:37,550 --> 01:07:48,850
That is what's really going to be the conversation about where we put in how we define hyper scale what size or cooling systems are allowed and what isn't.

685
01:07:48,850 --> 01:07:55,410
but that it should also be a public, like a collaborative process with all the stakeholders in the community partners.

686
01:07:56,490 --> 01:08:01,030
So say a lot to say, I was just my concerns with just what is being presented to us today.

687
01:08:01,670 --> 01:08:04,230
And I did have questions also in addition to that.

688
01:08:04,230 --> 01:08:06,250
I wanted to start out with first county attorney.

689
01:08:07,130 --> 01:08:11,570
For Section 4 of the draft, it currently contains four exemptions.

690
01:08:12,410 --> 01:08:22,010
Are any of those required by state law or are those specifically county within county authority to be deciding?

691
01:08:22,970 --> 01:08:35,090
The only exemption that's required by state law would be Section B, where it refers to the exemptions in the actual statute in those are listed.

692
01:08:35,690 --> 01:08:39,650
Anything outside of those exemptions are within the board's discretion.

693
01:08:41,050 --> 01:08:50,530
And if through this discussion, just I'm asking this like now, I'm in later, but if after the hearing and after the board discussions,

694
01:08:51,790 --> 01:08:58,210
if the commissioners wanted to adopt something different from what is presented, if we may changes,

695
01:08:59,170 --> 01:09:05,250
is the notice that was published for this meeting still covered that or would a separate public notice have to be?

696
01:09:05,250 --> 01:09:07,110
We could still vote on it with the amendments.

697
01:09:07,110 --> 01:09:16,530
Absolutely. Yeah, the notice that was published actually was broad enough to be able to encompass any possible changes.

698
01:09:17,130 --> 01:09:22,370
I believe it says something to the effect of pulled it up here actually.

699
01:09:23,270 --> 01:09:26,950
Changes to the proposed action may be made following the public hearing.

700
01:09:27,030 --> 01:09:30,190
So we put the public on notice that there could be possible changes.

701
01:09:30,970 --> 01:09:31,270
Thank you.

702
01:09:31,270 --> 01:09:33,690
And then, additional questions I had,

703
01:09:33,890 --> 01:09:37,210
these ones from Manager Hager, or WD County Manager Jones,

704
01:09:37,990 --> 01:09:39,590
in the memo that's provided a touch.

705
01:09:39,730 --> 01:09:41,690
It says that at least two projects

706
01:09:41,690 --> 01:09:45,070
under 100,000 square feet that are close to submitting

707
01:09:45,590 --> 01:09:46,550
development applications.

708
01:09:47,810 --> 01:09:49,450
And I wanted to get clarity on that.

709
01:09:49,490 --> 01:09:52,530
I know there's oftentimes that like things are

710
01:09:52,530 --> 01:09:52,890
confidential.

711
01:09:53,230 --> 01:09:55,790
We can't, we as board members don't even know

712
01:09:55,790 --> 01:09:56,870
these projects are.

713
01:09:57,510 --> 01:09:59,970
But can you share, when?

714
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:29,720
The county learned about these projects and where they are in their application process, and then also follow for Sarah Young on that last point, if an application has been submitted, and is at any stage, would either qualify for either of the two exemptions for a or for d, as drafted, as well as, are they impacted by a moratorium if their application is already in.

715
01:10:30,620 --> 01:10:35,200
Since it's came in, the application came in before the moratorium was put into effect

716
01:10:35,200 --> 01:10:40,300
or does the moratorium become retroactive to every application to pending applications?

717
01:10:41,320 --> 01:10:44,160
I'll add director going and candle that question.

718
01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:47,400
The first question you asked was about the projects.

719
01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:50,080
I don't believe they have submitted application.

720
01:10:50,900 --> 01:10:54,240
I believe the way we phrase it was preparing to submit an application

721
01:10:54,240 --> 01:10:58,360
and that was information that we received from the research triangle park.

722
01:10:58,360 --> 01:11:06,840
I believe they sent a letter to the board explaining that they knew of at least two projects that were interested in and applying during the moratorium.

723
01:11:09,940 --> 01:11:13,640
And while you're coming of Sarah, my next question was also related to the planning department.

724
01:11:14,140 --> 01:11:18,260
Since we share a city county, UDO and planning department.

725
01:11:19,160 --> 01:11:20,340
It's a joint staff.

726
01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:27,460
I'm also concerned about the additional work it creates for planning staff to have two different moratorium languages.

727
01:11:27,460 --> 01:11:32,040
and to have to be like managing that with applications, and that's something also City Attorney

728
01:11:32,040 --> 01:11:38,560
Rayberg stated as a concern back in May when the city first discussed it. So I want to see

729
01:11:39,100 --> 01:11:46,660
from your staffing perspective what could there be potential robots or issues from having two more

730
01:11:46,660 --> 01:11:46,960
terms.

731
01:11:49,500 --> 01:11:55,080
So meaning the fact that one has some exemptions that are different from the other one.

732
01:11:55,980 --> 01:12:02,740
You know, certainly it is an additional thing that staff needs to look at as applications come through.

733
01:12:03,300 --> 01:12:14,400
I will say that it is not completely burdensome that we can't do it. There are a lot of things where we have to parse out specifics of an application in order to fit it into one bucket or another for lots of other reasons.

734
01:12:14,700 --> 01:12:23,480
So staff is used to looking critically at the intake of an application to the particulars and making sure that it gets routed towards us to go.

735
01:12:25,080 --> 01:12:28,640
And then to the previous question about the,

736
01:12:28,640 --> 01:12:31,540
are they, is the moratorium retroactive?

737
01:12:32,980 --> 01:12:37,360
So I will ask the attorney to assist my understanding

738
01:12:37,360 --> 01:12:43,040
is that if, and actually, why don't I defer to you on that?

739
01:12:43,740 --> 01:12:48,780
So there isn't a definite answer.

740
01:12:49,020 --> 01:12:51,780
We would have to look at what the application says,

741
01:12:51,940 --> 01:12:53,340
where they are in the process.

742
01:12:53,340 --> 01:13:00,120
some of them may be covered by the moratorium, but depending upon how far long in the process it is, they may not be.

743
01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:08,960
So hypothetically, I can't give you a straight yes or no. It just depends on what the application is for and where it is in the process.

744
01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:17,700
Okay, so I think, yeah, I mean, me, I also have concerns and we'll hear, I know I do

745
01:13:17,700 --> 01:13:21,780
foundation has representatives here as well tonight, but I have concerns with carving

746
01:13:21,780 --> 01:13:29,380
out exemptions for potential projects when like the point of the overall moratorium is to

747
01:13:29,380 --> 01:13:36,380
be conducting the research necessary to decide what is and isn't good for Durham related to

748
01:13:36,380 --> 01:13:42,380
and provide those carve-outs now before we even get to that research is putting the

749
01:13:42,380 --> 01:13:43,940
car before the horse.

750
01:13:53,740 --> 01:13:57,400
I'm going to go to Commissioner Burton first and then come over on this side.

751
01:13:57,620 --> 01:13:58,160
Commissioner Burton.

752
01:13:58,620 --> 01:13:59,260
Thank you, Chair Lee.

753
01:13:59,680 --> 01:14:08,780
Yeah, I remember the meeting from August 3 and at that point in time thinking about why we're doing this moratorium.

754
01:14:09,280 --> 01:14:14,300
Thinking about, okay, we want to do a UDO to regulate data centers.

755
01:14:14,300 --> 01:14:19,260
So in my mind, at that time, on August 3rd, I was like,

756
01:14:19,380 --> 01:14:22,580
OK, why do we just get this done?

757
01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:25,780
Why do we need the exemptions?

758
01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:28,140
Because we're going to write this UDO.

759
01:14:29,060 --> 01:14:31,220
At that time, I did not recognize

760
01:14:31,220 --> 01:14:33,360
I was giving direction to staff.

761
01:14:33,380 --> 01:14:36,360
I just thought we were just talking about it on the diet.

762
01:14:37,040 --> 01:14:40,280
But I see what you're saying.

763
01:14:41,200 --> 01:14:59,960
So, from August 3rd, from talking to residents, talking to other stakeholders, doing my research, driving to look at data centers, driving to person county, things change, going to NCAC, listening to the experts there, so things change during that two week.

764
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:10,480
So, but I hear what you're saying, but I did not think I was giving direction to staff. I just thought I was saying this is how I'm thinking at that moment in time. So thank you so much.

765
01:15:11,500 --> 01:15:23,480
Yes, I'd like to speak on two matters. First, my steam colleague, Vice Chair, mentioned the decision around pride funding on last year.

766
01:15:23,800 --> 01:15:29,380
And so I made my position very clear last year and it remains true today.

767
01:15:30,980 --> 01:15:38,800
When there's major policy, decisions that need to be made in this community, it has always been my position.

768
01:15:39,640 --> 01:15:49,080
to bring it out to the die-ass, put it before a vote, before in front of and before the people.

769
01:15:49,720 --> 01:15:59,020
So they're clear about what our positions are and we as a board had the power, the authority to bring it down here for discussion.

770
01:16:03,510 --> 01:16:08,710
And at that time, we didn't move on. We could have very well put that on the agenda.

771
01:16:08,710 --> 01:16:19,130
But I want to make it publicly known that it was my position in real time that we come out here and discuss this on the dias, so I agree with you.

772
01:16:19,610 --> 01:16:24,550
We need to bring things that need to be discussed in the light, out to the light.

773
01:16:25,310 --> 01:16:28,750
We have the power and we have the authority to do it.

774
01:16:34,540 --> 01:16:39,600
On the question of my comments on August the 3rd,

775
01:16:41,480 --> 01:16:46,540
I did not in any way send signals to staff or anyone otherwise

776
01:16:46,540 --> 01:16:51,080
with respect to my position on exemptions regarding data centers.

777
01:16:52,500 --> 01:16:57,860
I had a concern with 100,000 square feet,

778
01:16:57,860 --> 01:17:08,600
being the left and right sort of benchmark for what could potentially be something that we

779
01:17:08,600 --> 01:17:16,780
could agree on during the the moratorium period if we decided to go in that direction.

780
01:17:17,220 --> 01:17:25,940
But I was in no way shape or form signaling to staff that I was against exemptions.

781
01:17:25,940 --> 01:17:31,760
And so to anyone to control that as such, would be absolutely false and inconsistent.

782
01:17:32,240 --> 01:17:40,700
And so I stand before you today, really still having some concerns about that 100 square foot exemption.

783
01:17:41,080 --> 01:17:45,220
Because it is a conversation of yesterday in many regards.

784
01:17:45,720 --> 01:17:47,980
The technology is here.

785
01:17:49,060 --> 01:17:50,920
It's moving very fast.

786
01:17:50,920 --> 01:17:57,100
And so 100,000 square feet might be okay today, six months from now, might not be okay.

787
01:17:57,640 --> 01:18:02,400
And so I still have some concerns about that, particularly at a time when our resources are being stretched.

788
01:18:02,580 --> 01:18:09,000
But in no way that I say Commissioner Valentine from his mouth that he was four or

789
01:18:09,000 --> 01:18:10,180
against exemptions.

790
01:18:10,260 --> 01:18:15,560
And please, if you would like to go back and take a look at that August 3rd meeting,

791
01:18:16,760 --> 01:18:18,360
I would ask that you do so.

792
01:18:18,520 --> 01:18:19,320
Thank you.

793
01:18:21,080 --> 01:18:24,680
All right, what did you have any questions for our staff?

794
01:18:26,120 --> 01:18:30,100
So one of the questions that was, was already answered

795
01:18:30,100 --> 01:18:35,220
with regards to clarity on potential interest

796
01:18:35,220 --> 01:18:36,120
in data centers.

797
01:18:36,900 --> 01:18:39,440
And I think your response was that there was no additional one

798
01:18:39,440 --> 01:18:42,320
since the last time this is sort of come up.

799
01:18:42,520 --> 01:18:45,040
There are two that the research triangle foundation

800
01:18:45,040 --> 01:18:47,700
made us aware of and a letter to the commissioners.

801
01:18:47,700 --> 01:18:53,640
we are not aware of anyone else who has either submitted an application or is considering submitting

802
01:18:53,640 --> 01:18:58,380
an application during the oratory and period are so that does mean that they're not out there.

803
01:18:59,020 --> 01:18:59,940
We're just not aware of that.

804
01:19:00,040 --> 01:19:05,440
But there's no there's no actual applications, not that we've seen an actual application.

805
01:19:07,340 --> 01:19:07,680
Yeah.

806
01:19:07,980 --> 01:19:12,460
The only two that I have are the I believe the two that you have been previously referring

807
01:19:20,500 --> 01:19:21,020
to.

808
01:19:21,020 --> 01:19:28,120
Could you just tell the public and give them an idea exactly how that number came to be at sort

809
01:19:28,120 --> 01:19:28,620
of a benchmark?

810
01:19:29,140 --> 01:19:29,540
Sure.

811
01:19:29,840 --> 01:19:36,060
Based on our research, we felt 100,000 square feet would allow for the smaller data centers

812
01:19:36,060 --> 01:19:37,420
to move forward.

813
01:19:37,480 --> 01:19:43,440
The types of data centers that we already have in the research triangle park without allowing

814
01:19:43,440 --> 01:19:47,100
for hyperscale size data centers.

815
01:19:47,260 --> 01:19:50,280
Those data centers are a lot larger than the enterprise centers.

816
01:19:50,640 --> 01:19:53,660
Those are the ones that we were clear from our board

817
01:19:54,180 --> 01:19:57,920
and many in the community that we do not want in Durham County.

818
01:19:58,100 --> 01:19:59,980
We want to figure out ways to ensure we...

819
01:20:00,340 --> 01:20:22,700
And so that's why we came up with 100,000 square feet. Initially we were talking about utilizing megawatts for that, but one hundred percent sure we have a statutory authority to do that, plus we don't have a way to monitor the megawattage and require folks to provide megawattage at this point based on state law.

820
01:20:26,820 --> 01:20:27,900
All right, Commissioner. Thank you.

821
01:20:27,900 --> 01:20:28,680
I

822
01:20:31,720 --> 01:20:36,180
want to first address the issue that you brought up by Sierra Lomb.

823
01:20:37,120 --> 01:20:42,460
I've been sitting on this board for 14 years and

824
01:20:45,150 --> 01:20:59,630
when an issue comes up and people express their opinion that is a very important part of what we do is we ask questions, especially during a work session when something comes up at the work session.

825
01:20:59,630 --> 01:21:07,590
It's an opportunity to have a conversation, to have a discussion, and that is what happened

826
01:21:07,590 --> 01:21:09,170
during our work session.

827
01:21:09,890 --> 01:21:11,430
People ask questions.

828
01:21:12,590 --> 01:21:15,110
They asked for additional information.

829
01:21:16,130 --> 01:21:20,990
They raised the issues that they were unsure about.

830
01:21:22,690 --> 01:21:29,230
There's a lot of complexity in a conversation like that, but in no time during the meeting,

831
01:21:29,230 --> 01:21:38,970
was their clear direction given to staff saying we want you to use the city's version of

832
01:21:38,970 --> 01:21:41,710
the more touring language that did not happen.

833
01:21:44,140 --> 01:21:47,320
And in this word as you so what happened earlier

834
01:21:47,320 --> 01:21:55,020
today when Commissioner Valentine asked for clarification exactly what are we asking our staff

835
01:21:55,020 --> 01:22:01,340
to do, it's really important, the relationship that we have with our staff and I appreciate

836
01:22:01,340 --> 01:22:08,240
you doing that. Because first of all, one commissioner really cannot ask staff to do something.

837
01:22:08,500 --> 01:22:15,740
We are bored. We make decisions together. That's the magic and the beauty of this being

838
01:22:15,740 --> 01:22:23,380
on a board and of our democracy and local government. And we have to be very clear when we

839
01:22:23,380 --> 01:22:29,940
giving direction to staff. It's not up to them to interpret. Okay, what did they just say?

840
01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:36,460
What are they just talking about? And that didn't happen. And I also think it's very

841
01:22:36,460 --> 01:22:44,220
important that we never deprived commissioners of the ability to express their opinions when

842
01:22:44,220 --> 01:22:50,840
we're trying to learn about an issue. And that was our work session. We were first trying to learn

843
01:22:50,840 --> 01:22:51,700
about something.

844
01:22:53,920 --> 01:23:00,240
And honestly, this is when we have the debate, because staff has brought

845
01:23:00,240 --> 01:23:06,080
back the finalized language when we were talking about it during a work session, there

846
01:23:06,080 --> 01:23:14,040
was a big blank where it said how many square feet on the document. There was a blank.

847
01:23:14,040 --> 01:23:17,280
And we talked about what staff is proposing.

848
01:23:17,660 --> 01:23:22,440
So I just want to be clear, and now it's the opportunity.

849
01:23:22,760 --> 01:23:29,980
If we want to, whatever changes that we might want to make to the proposed language that our staff

850
01:23:29,980 --> 01:23:33,980
is bringing to us, we work in partnership with our staff.

851
01:23:34,180 --> 01:23:34,880
They do the work.

852
01:23:35,060 --> 01:23:35,960
They do the research.

853
01:23:36,180 --> 01:23:39,560
They try to help us make the most informed decision possible.

854
01:23:39,780 --> 01:23:42,080
We work in partnership with all of you.

855
01:23:42,080 --> 01:23:49,040
we work for you. We represent you. And we listen to all of the information that's out there.

856
01:23:49,440 --> 01:23:55,200
We try to be as well informed as we can. At the end of the day we have to make a tough decision.

857
01:23:56,680 --> 01:24:00,220
And that's what it's all about. So that's my perspective.

858
01:24:02,740 --> 01:24:04,700
So I do have a few questions.

859
01:24:08,380 --> 01:24:11,940
Sarah, about the work that you all are doing. Are you? I'm really glad

860
01:24:11,940 --> 01:24:15,760
to hear you working with Central Pines, regional partners,

861
01:24:17,260 --> 01:24:18,880
the environmental affairs board.

862
01:24:19,420 --> 01:24:22,200
I was wondering also, are you also consulting

863
01:24:22,200 --> 01:24:23,460
with the School of Government?

864
01:24:24,460 --> 01:24:27,280
Because several of us went to a session last week.

865
01:24:27,860 --> 01:24:31,260
And we have particular laws and restrictions

866
01:24:31,260 --> 01:24:33,720
that are very specific to North Carolina.

867
01:24:34,520 --> 01:24:37,080
So just wondering, are you consulting with them as well?

868
01:24:37,460 --> 01:24:39,980
Yes, that has been part of the research

869
01:24:39,980 --> 01:24:46,580
the staff has been doing is and actually I was just reading a Codes Canon blog post about

870
01:24:46,580 --> 01:24:51,160
more Toria refreshing myself on a few things so they're a wealth of information. They've also

871
01:24:51,160 --> 01:24:56,800
been working on their own kind of set of best practices that regarding data centers that we've been

872
01:24:56,800 --> 01:24:57,920
Okay.

873
01:24:58,520 --> 01:24:59,960
And also I, this IGX.

874
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:12,120
I came from Commissioner Valentine, but what about the Nicolas School of the Environment? Is that another, because this is something they've been working on as well? Is that another possible resource?

875
01:25:12,140 --> 01:25:15,990
Absolutely. Great, thank you.

876
01:25:18,770 --> 01:25:28,070
So, Deputy Manager Jones, I just wanted to ask also some clarifying questions about the proposed language from staff.

877
01:25:28,070 --> 01:25:36,290
So one's section four that has the exemptions and some people can call them loopholes, carve outs, you know, whatever.

878
01:25:37,530 --> 01:25:40,990
So here we're calling them exemptions.

879
01:25:42,570 --> 01:25:49,410
So I know B, you said that, and I hope everyone has been able to look at the proposed language.

880
01:25:50,370 --> 01:26:01,190
B is related to the state statute that we have to follow 160d-107c.

881
01:26:01,190 --> 01:26:08,370
C, if I'm not mistaken, is virtually identical to the exemption that the city of Durham

882
01:26:08,370 --> 01:26:10,950
included in their moratorium in my correct?

883
01:26:10,950 --> 01:26:11,730
That's correct.

884
01:26:12,030 --> 01:26:15,310
Okay, so I just want for the community to understand,

885
01:26:16,050 --> 01:26:21,730
is that the city of Durham's moratorium also has an exemption.

886
01:26:22,570 --> 01:26:24,190
It's really important to know that.

887
01:26:25,590 --> 01:26:28,810
So we are including in this draft language,

888
01:26:28,810 --> 01:26:32,550
the exemption that the city of Durham included,

889
01:26:32,750 --> 01:26:39,450
which is around basically office scale server rooms,

890
01:26:39,450 --> 01:26:47,230
information, technology equipment that's clearly incidental for commercial, institutional

891
01:26:47,230 --> 01:26:52,490
governmental use, things like hospitals, medical facilities, financial institutions,

892
01:26:52,790 --> 01:26:58,670
offices, government institutions, educational institutions, as long as such data processing

893
01:26:58,670 --> 01:27:04,370
activities are not conducted as a primary service to office site users.

894
01:27:04,370 --> 01:27:12,270
So basically, if you want to look at this as a carve-out or a loophole, there's already one in the city ordinance,

895
01:27:12,490 --> 01:27:20,650
which is saying that all of the things that we all now depend on for our daily functioning in life,

896
01:27:21,290 --> 01:27:23,130
that they are allowed to happen.

897
01:27:23,470 --> 01:27:29,850
If you go up to the top floor of this building, it was funny because the day after our work session,

898
01:27:29,850 --> 01:27:35,510
I went up, I needed help from IT, and I look, I walk in, and there's a big sign that says

899
01:27:35,510 --> 01:27:36,310
data center.

900
01:27:36,830 --> 01:27:40,370
So, like the top floor of this building is a data center.

901
01:27:41,550 --> 01:27:48,950
So I just think it's really important to know that, you know, data centers, there are different

902
01:27:48,950 --> 01:27:57,630
kinds, and this is what in part C is just including what the city is doing.

903
01:27:58,890 --> 01:28:06,750
And I think we can talk more about part A and D, which are the ones that are the option

904
01:28:06,750 --> 01:28:08,370
of ones that we're considering.

905
01:28:10,010 --> 01:28:17,710
Those are really trying to specifically address some of the needs that we might have

906
01:28:17,710 --> 01:28:25,550
outside of what the city has because the one unique part of Durham that is not in the

907
01:28:25,550 --> 01:28:32,390
is RTP. So, you know, we can come back and circle back to that later in the conversation,

908
01:28:34,750 --> 01:28:40,410
but I just, there are a lot of the functions that happen, the businesses that function

909
01:28:40,410 --> 01:28:48,990
in RTP that are may not be covered under, under, under, part C. And so I just, more

910
01:28:48,990 --> 01:28:57,530
just to clarify, too, because in Section D, under-covered uses, it lists like data centers,

911
01:28:57,810 --> 01:29:03,350
data processing facilities, crypto mining, operations, artificial intelligence,

912
01:29:04,150 --> 01:29:12,270
compute, computing facilities, and any other use associated with data processing facilities.

913
01:29:12,270 --> 01:29:23,110
the language that's here, can you clarify that what this is limited to?

914
01:29:23,590 --> 01:29:26,010
The focus there is on data centers for the exemption.

915
01:29:26,650 --> 01:29:29,050
It's not focused on cryptocurrency mining.

916
01:29:29,410 --> 01:29:33,530
That is still prohibited under this moratorium, for instance.

917
01:29:33,890 --> 01:29:41,350
But very specifically focused on data centers and as we've discussed before data centers under 100,000 square feet.

918
01:29:41,350 --> 01:29:58,090
Okay, so just to clarify, like, under the proposed language, cryptocurrency mining, artificial intelligence, computing facilities, these will still not be allowed anywhere in Durham County. Is that correct?

919
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:11,120
During the 90 days until we get the nine months. I'm sorry, nine months. Okay. All right, that I just wanted to get clarification on that. Okay, thank you.

920
01:30:13,660 --> 01:30:18,500
Okay, I want to limit maybe on the back and forth, but I'll let you go, then I'll speak.

921
01:30:19,060 --> 01:30:28,200
Okay. So, did someone respond to a comment? I won't belabor it, but I think it's important for us to all be very, very factual and clear.

922
01:30:28,200 --> 01:30:34,540
Like if we're on this diet and where everyone can have their policy stances, I hear you commissioner Jacobs, but with all do you respect

923
01:30:35,600 --> 01:30:42,520
If my question at the end of the discussion was I would like us to clarify next steps and

924
01:30:42,520 --> 01:30:52,580
asking every commissioner for where they're at on the issue. I don't see how that could be interpreted as anything other than giving direction to staff if it's asking for what is our next steps

925
01:30:53,880 --> 01:31:00,980
So, I think, yes, anyone can have their policy stances and ask questions, and I am never going to say no to asking questions.

926
01:31:01,640 --> 01:31:07,420
But if the question, and I clicked the end of that meeting, and I sent it to everyone that it was in Commissioner Burton,

927
01:31:07,680 --> 01:31:11,480
state of that she had made those comments. Commissioner Valentine, I hear that that wasn't your intention.

928
01:31:11,620 --> 01:31:18,980
But in that meeting, you did state as it relates to the carve out related to square footage.

929
01:31:20,220 --> 01:31:25,980
I would be in favor of removing that car belt, and that was what was in that meeting.

930
01:31:26,180 --> 01:31:30,460
So I just wanted to clarify that I'm not trying to put words in anyone's mouths.

931
01:31:30,680 --> 01:31:35,840
I went and watched the video again myself, and I shared it with everyone to also make sure

932
01:31:35,840 --> 01:31:40,880
that everyone that wasn't making anything up, but I did have additional questions for staff.

933
01:31:41,680 --> 01:31:46,140
Under section 4A, so it says, all three conditions must be met together.

934
01:31:46,140 --> 01:31:54,860
the under 100,000 square feet, the closed loop or equivalent cooling, so all three of those

935
01:31:54,860 --> 01:32:00,820
must be met, correct? It can be that they meet just one. Okay, and then in section 4D that

936
01:32:00,820 --> 01:32:08,400
exempts expansion of existing, in existing facility of 200,000 square feet, with no cooling or

937
01:32:08,400 --> 01:32:15,820
generator contention attached while for A requires both for a new facility of the same size.

938
01:32:16,240 --> 01:32:17,060
Is that correct?

939
01:32:18,600 --> 01:32:20,160
That is correct.

940
01:32:20,460 --> 01:32:20,580
Okay.

941
01:32:23,030 --> 01:32:27,970
So, and was that different, like, intentional, because then anyone could extend to during

942
01:32:27,970 --> 01:32:35,930
this moratorium period in existing data center over 100,000 square feet up to 100,000 square feet,

943
01:32:35,930 --> 01:32:40,590
but not be regulated by the same the cooling and generator conditions.

944
01:32:41,450 --> 01:32:44,710
That is, yes, that is the way we have ever written it up to this point.

945
01:32:44,890 --> 01:32:48,830
So somebody, if there are 45,000 square feet right now,

946
01:32:48,910 --> 01:32:54,810
they could expand within this moratorium to 99,999 square feet

947
01:32:54,810 --> 01:33:02,050
and not be required to have the generator conditions and then cooling conditions.

948
01:33:02,050 --> 01:33:02,870
as a treatment.

949
01:33:06,060 --> 01:33:14,420
That's, I'm certain, and then what baseline was used to determine whether a cooling system

950
01:33:15,880 --> 01:33:21,820
achieves a equivalent or greater reduction in water consumption under section 4A?

951
01:33:26,140 --> 01:33:33,200
Like when determining the closed-loop system, what factors it staff used to determine, what type

952
01:33:33,200 --> 01:33:36,100
of cooling system receives an exemption and how,

953
01:33:36,100 --> 01:33:40,960
whether the reduction in water consumption

954
01:33:41,740 --> 01:33:43,980
is equivalent or greater or less than.

955
01:33:44,160 --> 01:33:46,840
I mean, that's similar language that we've seen in other

956
01:33:46,840 --> 01:33:49,160
moratorium, and that's how we came up with that language.

957
01:33:52,250 --> 01:33:54,730
So, but it's related to other moratoriums,

958
01:33:54,730 --> 01:33:57,810
but it wasn't like, OK, we know, for a fact,

959
01:33:57,950 --> 01:34:00,250
this cooling system may use less water,

960
01:34:01,530 --> 01:34:03,450
but it's going to be using more electricity.

961
01:34:04,230 --> 01:34:15,030
And factoring is that greater electricity use it, or sorry, if it's using less water, but the greater electricity usage makes it still more favorable in emissions.

962
01:34:17,190 --> 01:34:28,930
One of the things that we have started to see in our research is one of the emerging best practices is that we have closed loop system because of the very large decline in water usage that that creates.

963
01:34:28,930 --> 01:34:35,830
I have not seen any research yet on the comparative analysis between what that does to energy consumption.

964
01:34:37,510 --> 01:34:49,090
Yeah, and I think, yeah, for me, again, I've stated again and again, like the moratorium is this period for us to do that research and to be able to have what is going to be a legal change.

965
01:34:56,470 --> 01:34:59,950
And is anything in this moratorium language, would it prevent a def-

966
01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:07,040
Development from being built as several buildings each under 100,000 square feet.

967
01:35:07,700 --> 01:35:15,120
Yes, our intention is for the entirety of the development. So it doesn't allow for individual buildings

968
01:35:15,120 --> 01:35:22,220
to be built under the 100,000 square feet, because then you could combine it and it would be well over what our intention is.

969
01:35:23,000 --> 01:35:27,840
So we were actually approached about doing that and we said we weren't going to do that.

970
01:35:27,840 --> 01:35:34,300
And that would be if somebody was developing something on like one parcel of land, would that

971
01:35:34,300 --> 01:35:39,700
encompass if they own multiple parcels of land, or is that only if it was all in one?

972
01:35:40,140 --> 01:35:44,500
It's the parcel that has been put for as part of the application.

973
01:35:45,200 --> 01:35:51,100
So if somebody has a parcel of land, and like theoretically if they bought the parcel of land next to it,

974
01:35:51,100 --> 01:35:58,980
They could submit an application for 50,000 square feet on one parcel land, and 50,000 on another parcel.

975
01:36:00,680 --> 01:36:03,840
If, well, I'm going to zero to kind of respond to that.

976
01:36:03,840 --> 01:36:05,100
That's something that we've seen before.

977
01:36:05,740 --> 01:36:07,400
So we have not seen that.

978
01:36:08,140 --> 01:36:11,460
We typically look at development sites, right?

979
01:36:11,480 --> 01:36:15,240
The entirety of the site, often those sites may be multiple parcels,

980
01:36:15,420 --> 01:36:17,420
and we still treat it as one development site.

981
01:36:17,420 --> 01:36:24,960
So I would say kind of to elaborate, it depends how the development is structured, but we do

982
01:36:24,960 --> 01:36:28,320
look at full development sites regardless of the number of parcels and what we would be

983
01:36:28,320 --> 01:36:34,020
looking for is the total data center use, so the total square footage devoted to that use,

984
01:36:34,360 --> 01:36:36,720
regardless of how many buildings or parcels across is over.

985
01:36:38,280 --> 01:36:45,000
And so these exemptions that I'm like, again, exemption, foresee, I don't think anyone on

986
01:36:45,000 --> 01:36:49,760
board on the stice that I've heard is opposed to it is the same one that the city passed.

987
01:36:50,260 --> 01:36:58,540
My concerns around 40 and 4A, the carve outs of, again, we haven't researched, yes, closed

988
01:36:58,540 --> 01:37:06,580
loop systems are better than the other systems that we have, but they also still emit, you

989
01:37:06,580 --> 01:37:07,560
know, PFAS.

990
01:37:07,660 --> 01:37:12,760
Do we know what are we having any requirements around what type of regulations are going

991
01:37:12,760 --> 01:37:20,280
on the PFAS that's going to be coming into our water, how it's, what that impact is.

992
01:37:20,380 --> 01:37:23,860
It's just, we haven't researched it, we haven't regulated it, but we're allowing it,

993
01:37:23,880 --> 01:37:29,780
and we're basically saying with these exemptions, we're okay with the drawbacks of these

994
01:37:29,780 --> 01:37:36,760
specific exemptions, even though we don't know what the full ramifications of them are.

995
01:37:36,760 --> 01:37:43,000
I think if you take what one of the things that we tried to take into consideration is our current

996
01:37:43,000 --> 01:37:49,760
data centers that we have within Durham County and any negative impacts that we've seen thus far from those

997
01:37:49,760 --> 01:37:53,120
or a complaint that we've received thus far and we have not received any.

998
01:37:53,680 --> 01:38:00,850
And so that's one of the reasons why we felt comfortable with providing these exemptions in

999
01:38:00,850 --> 01:38:06,430
in response to the concerns that have been raised about the impact that would have on development

1000
01:38:06,430 --> 01:38:07,650
within RTP.

1001
01:38:09,050 --> 01:38:15,250
But for folks to have submitted complaints, sorry, that's my last question, potentially,

1002
01:38:16,230 --> 01:38:22,890
of how would they know for like the average person, like I wouldn't personally know how to go and

1003
01:38:22,890 --> 01:38:29,530
like test my water to see if there's PFAS in it. So using that as a criteria, what we haven't

1004
01:38:29,530 --> 01:38:34,670
received a concern related to those type of emissions or like I don't I have asthma.

1005
01:38:34,830 --> 01:38:38,590
I don't know though, like if I'm standing next to diesel generator I'm not going to feel

1006
01:38:38,590 --> 01:38:39,450
the impacts of that.

1007
01:38:39,710 --> 01:38:43,990
Maybe immediately I'll feel it when I get home when I'm using but I don't know if I

1008
01:38:43,990 --> 01:38:50,070
how is a person supposed to correlate that when that's not what like I think an average person

1009
01:38:50,070 --> 01:38:54,010
is standing around thinking like, oh, this is definitely happening because that was

1010
01:38:54,010 --> 01:38:55,290
next to a data center.

1011
01:38:55,930 --> 01:39:04,010
I was primarily referring to like noise and that type of thing and we have not had that issue and we have not had complaints raised about these data centers in the past.

1012
01:39:04,670 --> 01:39:06,290
Thank you.

1013
01:39:07,250 --> 01:39:08,190
Thank you.

1014
01:39:08,410 --> 01:39:08,790
Vice-chair alum.

1015
01:39:09,550 --> 01:39:09,650
All right.

1016
01:39:10,210 --> 01:39:14,240
So with the cities,

1017
01:39:16,060 --> 01:39:16,520
more touring,

1018
01:39:18,160 --> 01:39:21,300
it does have those exceptions,

1019
01:39:22,340 --> 01:39:24,360
but is there anything preventing

1020
01:39:24,360 --> 01:39:32,380
the size of those exceptions. So like, could there be an expansion based on the

1021
01:39:32,380 --> 01:39:36,040
cities that goes over a hundred thousand square feet?

1022
01:39:36,800 --> 01:39:42,420
So the cities more touring for what I'll refer to as standalone data centers,

1023
01:39:42,560 --> 01:39:46,280
so not associated with like, you know, hospital or government or some of the

1024
01:39:46,280 --> 01:39:52,440
institution. There is no square footage. So that means no data center

1025
01:39:52,440 --> 01:39:59,980
applications in the city for standalone data centers are allowed during their more dormant but expansions is there

1026
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:01,840
Expansions would not be allowed.

1027
01:40:01,960 --> 01:40:05,340
Okay. All right. Very good.

1028
01:40:15,980 --> 01:40:23,640
In the speaking specifically about the 100, 100, 100, 100, 100 square feet.

1029
01:40:24,340 --> 01:40:35,180
You mentioned PCM, Jones, about the typical size of hyperscale data centers.

1030
01:40:35,180 --> 01:40:39,480
He said 200,000 or 400,000, well 200,000 and that.

1031
01:40:47,440 --> 01:40:49,220
Where did that come from?

1032
01:40:49,220 --> 01:40:50,580
Where did that definition come from?

1033
01:40:51,240 --> 01:40:57,120
There's a variety of sources that we did research on and found on average.

1034
01:40:57,180 --> 01:41:01,380
Folks were saying that the hyperscales started around 200,000 square feet.

1035
01:41:01,980 --> 01:41:04,040
And obviously, well beyond that.

1036
01:41:04,420 --> 01:41:05,660
Into the millions of square feet.

1037
01:41:05,660 --> 01:41:17,920
And going back, does that, is that the data center use of a particular property or is it the total center itself?

1038
01:41:18,160 --> 01:41:27,000
Primarily, if I remember correctly, from our research, it was, it those were standalone, that were separate, but it had to do a little more research on that here.

1039
01:41:27,000 --> 01:41:29,560
Okay. Very good.

1040
01:41:38,740 --> 01:41:41,260
Thank you. I was really,

1041
01:41:44,300 --> 01:41:46,660
my questions really were surrounding the,

1042
01:41:50,010 --> 01:41:55,950
I've been looking at the differences between the city and the counties version, and

1043
01:41:57,390 --> 01:42:03,370
yeah, that's what I needed to know there. Okay, so do we have any more comments?

1044
01:42:04,870 --> 01:42:14,190
questions, questions within the public hearing. Okay. All right, so I'll save my

1045
01:42:14,190 --> 01:42:19,910
comments later. This was really a question period. Okay, so we'll move to the

1046
01:42:19,910 --> 01:42:27,610
third part of the public hearing which is public comment. We have

1047
01:42:35,610 --> 01:42:36,150
63

1048
01:42:38,270 --> 01:42:39,510
public comments.

1049
01:42:41,770 --> 01:42:51,870
And at least right now, nine of them are virtual. I think there's actually

1050
01:42:51,870 --> 01:42:58,590
eight that have shown up. We're going to do those first. We'll do the first and then

1051
01:42:58,590 --> 01:43:05,650
we'll start calling people for the in-person public comments themselves. Commissioner Jacob,

1052
01:43:05,650 --> 01:43:08,460
She said you had a...

1053
01:43:08,460 --> 01:43:11,620
I'll wait to after the public comment for my questions.

1054
01:43:12,500 --> 01:43:13,020
All right.

1055
01:43:13,660 --> 01:43:23,340
With that, our public comment period, since we have, what do we say, 63, 63, we're going

1056
01:43:23,340 --> 01:43:30,140
to do a minute each, that's going to put us a little over an hour for public comment.

1057
01:43:31,320 --> 01:43:37,140
So we're doing a minute each and the order that we have for virtual, remember we're starting

1058
01:43:37,140 --> 01:43:49,760
virtual first. We don't show me on camera like that. We have Katie Roth, Pam Andrews, Donald

1059
01:43:49,760 --> 01:43:55,160
Steinbeck, and then Wanda Allen. Those are the first four that are virtual.

1060
01:43:58,230 --> 01:43:58,670
So we'll start

1061
01:43:58,670 --> 01:43:59,990
with Katie Roth.

1062
01:44:05,400 --> 01:44:11,020
Can you hear me? Okay, thank. Okay. So I live up in Northearn County and

1063
01:44:11,020 --> 01:44:19,020
We are far more vulnerable to the invasion of data centers because of more open space.

1064
01:44:19,800 --> 01:44:23,300
We also have potential more damage to cities that doesn't have the space.

1065
01:44:23,920 --> 01:44:29,780
So I would ask, hey, what is the limit on the number of smaller data centers that could be built out of

1066
01:44:29,780 --> 01:44:34,240
these carve outs because my research shows that multiple smaller data centers

1067
01:44:34,240 --> 01:44:41,040
and have the same destructive impact as one hyper scale data center.

1068
01:44:41,540 --> 01:44:46,280
Secondly, I haven't heard anybody bring up the fact that these data centers

1069
01:44:46,280 --> 01:44:52,720
almost always require blasting. I did a little research on Google AI so it can

1070
01:44:52,720 --> 01:44:58,580
rat itself out and it says it is very likely that controlled rock blasting will be required during

1071
01:44:58,580 --> 01:44:59,960
math rating of

1072
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:04,640
May David or Senator of any significant size and rural northeering counties due to the shallow

1073
01:45:04,640 --> 01:45:12,280
hard bedrock common in the peed mine. That can cause all kinds of problems. I'm just going to

1074
01:45:12,280 --> 01:45:19,000
go to the well. Well, we're telling you if it's around well. Thank you, thank you, Mr. Ross. That was, that was the

1075
01:45:19,000 --> 01:45:28,080
time. Next item, next is Pam Andrews. Good evening, can you hear me? Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Good

1076
01:45:28,080 --> 01:45:32,820
Even before more data centers are built, there needs to be responsible planning, transparency and

1077
01:45:32,820 --> 01:45:34,240
scientific data collider and analyze.

1078
01:45:34,860 --> 01:45:39,060
The key of the impact, the cumulative impact of these facilities, needs to be understood.

1079
01:45:39,700 --> 01:45:44,300
Air pollution, thorough filters show pollution from jet engine turbines generating electricity

1080
01:45:44,300 --> 01:45:47,520
producing greenhouse effects and air pollution.

1081
01:45:47,880 --> 01:45:50,320
Air pollutants don't go up in the air and disappear.

1082
01:45:50,720 --> 01:45:54,240
They emit volatile organic compounds which is detrimental to our health.

1083
01:45:54,240 --> 01:45:59,560
Water issues. Durham already has plans for an algae scrubber to remove nitrogen and phosphorus

1084
01:45:59,560 --> 01:46:04,380
from our lakes, require millions of gallons of water per day. Data centers also require

1085
01:46:04,380 --> 01:46:08,500
large quantities of water. This is extremely alarming in this current drought and climate

1086
01:46:08,500 --> 01:46:13,920
change. Communities need to know basic information. How much water is used per day? Where

1087
01:46:13,920 --> 01:46:18,080
is it coming from? What happens to the waste water leave in the site? Everyone deserves clean

1088
01:46:18,080 --> 01:46:24,220
water. Waste water discharge from treatment centers could contain heavy metals, PFAS, and

1089
01:46:24,220 --> 01:46:27,340
The treasoners don't remove these particles and it goes to our rivers.

1090
01:46:27,880 --> 01:46:30,560
Clean water is life, please say that.

1091
01:46:31,120 --> 01:46:31,360
Thank you.

1092
01:46:31,760 --> 01:46:32,340
Thank you.

1093
01:46:32,340 --> 01:46:34,260
Thank you, Ms. Andrews.

1094
01:46:37,000 --> 01:46:46,320
We have won the Allen, then Tina Motley Pearson, and then Ava Pearson.

1095
01:46:49,340 --> 01:46:50,500
Yes, this is Juan D'Alan.

1096
01:46:50,700 --> 01:46:51,420
Can you hear me?

1097
01:46:51,480 --> 01:46:52,340
Yes, yes, ma'am.

1098
01:46:52,460 --> 01:46:52,980
We can.

1099
01:46:57,600 --> 01:46:58,160
Okay.

1100
01:46:58,160 --> 01:47:06,940
to conduct a very thorough study. I have participated in construction of a data center under

1101
01:47:06,940 --> 01:47:14,820
100,000 square feet and I can speak firsthand its experience. Our facility that we built

1102
01:47:14,820 --> 01:47:23,440
includes a 300 solar panel and it was presented as a benefit of the project but it did not

1103
01:47:23,440 --> 01:47:29,140
close to meeting the facilities overall strategy energy needs.

1104
01:47:29,740 --> 01:47:33,520
Also, I'd like to address the concern about water.

1105
01:47:33,980 --> 01:47:39,800
We have been in severe droughts, and I'd like for the study to talk to us about

1106
01:47:39,800 --> 01:47:44,840
how you plan to handle the water that would be used, and what infrastructure

1107
01:47:44,840 --> 01:47:50,220
would be required, how much will it cost, and who will ultimately pay for it.

1108
01:47:50,220 --> 01:47:56,180
study, please study a small investment compared to a

1109
01:47:56,180 --> 01:47:59,400
making a decision that would affect Durham's water

1110
01:47:59,400 --> 01:48:01,800
energy and the infrastructure and the taxpayers.

1111
01:48:02,440 --> 01:48:02,880
Thank you.

1112
01:48:03,000 --> 01:48:03,940
Thank you so much.

1113
01:48:04,420 --> 01:48:08,100
I actually missed Donna's staying back.

1114
01:48:08,360 --> 01:48:08,920
So I apologize.

1115
01:48:09,540 --> 01:48:11,880
So I'm going to go to Donna's staying back.

1116
01:48:12,280 --> 01:48:16,200
And then we'll continue on with Tina Motley Pearson.

1117
01:48:16,200 --> 01:48:19,600
Yeah, my apologies, Donna.

1118
01:48:20,720 --> 01:48:23,260
Okay, can you hear me now?

1119
01:48:23,380 --> 01:48:24,680
Yes, yes, we can.

1120
01:48:25,040 --> 01:48:31,940
Okay, I support a 1 year moratorium on the data centers

1121
01:48:31,940 --> 01:48:33,460
for Durham County.

1122
01:48:33,980 --> 01:48:39,060
I think 100,000 square feet is too large.

1123
01:48:40,160 --> 01:48:45,920
Carvout, they talk about a 5,000 to 20,000 square feet

1124
01:48:45,920 --> 01:48:57,740
been a medium size. So, you know, jumping up to 100,000 is just too high and with what we need to know.

1125
01:48:57,940 --> 01:49:07,340
I'm not going to talk about other items that folks have. My concern is that there is information

1126
01:49:07,340 --> 01:49:15,840
regarding the impact to animals and insects. And this is especially around the EMI and RF

1127
01:49:15,840 --> 01:49:24,460
on electromagnetic interference and radio frequency radiation. Now the honey bees are already

1128
01:49:24,460 --> 01:49:32,580
showing significant impact to EMI radiation.

1129
01:49:34,600 --> 01:49:36,360
And thank you very much.

1130
01:49:36,960 --> 01:49:37,880
Thank you very much.

1131
01:49:37,880 --> 01:49:38,940
Thank you so much.

1132
01:49:46,460 --> 01:49:52,060
We will go to a Tina Motley Pearson and then Ava Pearson.

1133
01:49:53,840 --> 01:49:54,420
Good evening.

1134
01:49:54,440 --> 01:49:55,740
My name is Tina Motley Pearson.

1135
01:49:55,980 --> 01:49:58,760
I am asking you to pass more to her on data centers.

1136
01:49:59,060 --> 01:49:59,980
And it's not because-

1137
01:50:00,000 --> 01:50:14,340
We are opposed to technology or economic development. But because data centers clearly have negative impacts, data centers require enormous amounts of electricity and water. And even small scale data centers have a big impact.

1138
01:50:14,880 --> 01:50:27,360
I'm going to echo the sentiment of people over profits. Thank you very much. And I'll say, Eva is my daughter, but she's unable to come to the microphone. So I just let you know. But thank you.

1139
01:50:27,360 --> 01:50:34,520
Okay, thank you very much, and please tell Ava, thank you for signing up.

1140
01:50:35,920 --> 01:50:42,760
I would suspect that she was a youth, and I would love to hear from youth, I'd love to do that.

1141
01:50:44,340 --> 01:50:49,780
We have Jennifer Robinson, and then Mary

1142
01:50:52,050 --> 01:50:53,430
Malena.

1143
01:50:56,170 --> 01:50:57,430
So that's virtual.

1144
01:50:58,030 --> 01:50:59,470
So Jennifer Robinson?

1145
01:51:01,010 --> 01:51:06,550
Yes, hi. We have the benefit of learning from communities that are already dealing with rapid

1146
01:51:06,550 --> 01:51:11,950
data center development. Just six days ago, Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro sign an executive

1147
01:51:11,950 --> 01:51:17,710
order establishing significant new requirements for data centers. This is especially noteworthy

1148
01:51:17,710 --> 01:51:23,930
because Pennsylvania has actively corded this industry, including billions of dollars in

1149
01:51:23,930 --> 01:51:30,610
and investment yet in Pennsylvania now has removed data centers from its fast track permitting program.

1150
01:51:31,270 --> 01:51:38,410
They've also prohibited state agencies from entering into non-disclosure agreements with data center developers.

1151
01:51:38,890 --> 01:51:46,450
In Virginia, researchers found that many localities with existing approves or proposed data centers had entered into these agreements.

1152
01:51:46,450 --> 01:51:53,850
In other places, projects have been proposed under unfamiliar LLCs or project names make it

1153
01:51:53,850 --> 01:51:56,790
difficult for residents to even know who is behind them.

1154
01:51:56,910 --> 01:52:02,950
I'm asking for you to approve this moratorium for all new, pending, and expanding data centers

1155
01:52:02,950 --> 01:52:06,850
without exemptions because exemptions require research.

1156
01:52:07,070 --> 01:52:10,750
They cannot be arbitrary, they need to be evidence-based.

1157
01:52:10,750 --> 01:52:12,090
Thank you,

1158
01:52:18,300 --> 01:52:25,300
and then Mary Malena, which is the last virtual one we had that's actually verified here.

1159
01:52:29,040 --> 01:52:34,920
Yes, I'm Mary Malena, and I'm urging you to enact a clean data center moratorium without

1160
01:52:34,920 --> 01:52:41,320
Loupels or Carvouts. These Loupels and Carvouts benefit developers and data centers,

1161
01:52:41,320 --> 01:52:44,440
not citizens and not our limited resources.

1162
01:52:45,360 --> 01:52:49,400
The current exceptions completely undermine the purpose of a moratorium,

1163
01:52:50,060 --> 01:52:54,380
which is to pause development and craft the right ordinances for Durham.

1164
01:52:55,380 --> 01:53:01,320
Looking at the draft, the main question is, why are we drafting a permanent ordinance right now

1165
01:53:01,320 --> 01:53:06,540
and calling it a temporary moratorium? We need a moratorium without new polls.

1166
01:53:07,440 --> 01:53:10,560
We need to understand the cumulative impacts of this industry.

1167
01:53:10,560 --> 01:53:13,560
we need to complete pause and all approvals.

1168
01:53:14,300 --> 01:53:16,080
Please give the county a clean slate

1169
01:53:16,080 --> 01:53:19,600
that it needs to protect our community and our resources.

1170
01:53:20,340 --> 01:53:23,380
Adopt the most same moratorium as the city passed unanimously.

1171
01:53:24,060 --> 01:53:27,020
Give the county the clean state to clean slate

1172
01:53:27,020 --> 01:53:28,180
to protect our community.

1173
01:53:28,680 --> 01:53:29,480
Thank you.

1174
01:53:29,560 --> 01:53:30,300
Thank you.

1175
01:53:37,990 --> 01:53:45,290
Okay, so we'll start the in-person public comment.

1176
01:53:47,370 --> 01:53:54,530
I'm going to call four up at a time, ask that you line up here and then was going to keep

1177
01:53:54,530 --> 01:53:59,090
going when we get close to the end of the four, I'll call four more and we'll keep going

1178
01:53:59,090 --> 01:53:59,490
there.

1179
01:53:59,770 --> 01:54:03,010
Okay, we have 53 here.

1180
01:54:03,170 --> 01:54:14,530
So we'll start with Stephanie Turner, Eva Page, Benook, Astrid, Astrid Carroll,

1181
01:54:19,360 --> 01:54:20,040
Doyle,

1182
01:54:20,040 --> 01:54:30,120
Oh, good. Sorry. I'm very, that's third. Then Leslie, same drink.

1183
01:54:38,520 --> 01:54:43,320
Good evening. My name is Stephanie Turner, and I'm a proud Durham County resident. As

1184
01:54:43,320 --> 01:54:48,020
elected officials, I invite you to look around this very room this evening. The people in this

1185
01:54:48,020 --> 01:54:52,700
room who have been with us this evening are only a fraction of Durham County citizens who are

1186
01:54:52,700 --> 01:54:58,160
urging you to preserve our finite water resources, our precious soil, and the delicate

1187
01:54:58,160 --> 01:54:59,960
I'll let your grid that more than 3...

1188
01:55:00,000 --> 01:55:19,100
147,000 citizens rely on in our daily lives. I also ask you to stand by our responsibility as inhabitants of this Earth to protect those finite resources, not just for the people, but for our wildlife neighbors as well. Creatures who struggle to survive as our already rapid development threatens their very existence.

1189
01:55:19,100 --> 01:55:30,460
Passing a data center maturing with no excessive exceptions is the single best decision you as elected officials can do to make to protect the long-term health

1190
01:55:30,460 --> 01:55:35,200
Well being in livelihood of every being in everyone who calls Durham County home.

1191
01:55:35,420 --> 01:55:36,360
Thank you very much

1192
01:55:45,190 --> 01:55:50,770
We had a long history of paying the price for environment destroying decisions that can't easily be undone.

1193
01:55:50,770 --> 01:55:55,130
The U.S. knew the dangers of lead exposure yet they put it in gasoline, paint, and water pipes

1194
01:55:55,130 --> 01:55:57,650
because the lead industry's association won in the project.

1195
01:55:58,170 --> 01:56:02,570
The 2021 Infrastructure Act rightfully appropriated 15 billion in taxpayer money to

1196
01:56:02,570 --> 01:56:07,090
remediate lead service lines. In 2009, researchers found that controlling lead paint in the

1197
01:56:07,090 --> 01:56:11,650
one million worst case housing units would cost up to 11 billion. But without remediation,

1198
01:56:11,870 --> 01:56:17,550
we could expect 181 to 269 billion in social costs like increased crime rates and healthcare

1199
01:56:17,550 --> 01:56:22,310
needs funded by taxpayers. We don't know what a SFS is removal has cost us because that price

1200
01:56:22,310 --> 01:56:26,650
is usually borne by individuals, but the EPA has estimated in 1992 that it would cost at

1201
01:56:26,650 --> 01:56:28,910
least $3.1 billion to get our schools into compliance.

1202
01:56:30,030 --> 01:56:34,270
Over the span of 20 years the EPA super fund used over $21 billion in taxpayer money to clean

1203
01:56:34,270 --> 01:56:38,770
sites politically mostly by companies. So if you claim we can't afford to implement the

1204
01:56:38,770 --> 01:56:43,770
city's moratorium to thoroughly research the true impacts of data centers at every size, but

1205
01:56:43,770 --> 01:56:45,910
How much will it cost to remediate data centers?

1206
01:56:54,870 --> 01:56:55,510
Good evening.

1207
01:56:55,710 --> 01:56:57,110
My name is Astrid Cookdale.

1208
01:56:57,210 --> 01:57:00,570
I am the Vice Chair of the Durham City County Environmental Affairs Board.

1209
01:57:01,150 --> 01:57:05,390
Tonight I am speaking solely my personal capacity as a concerned county resident to ask

1210
01:57:05,390 --> 01:57:09,990
our county commissioners to vote no on the proposed moratorium tonight and to bring forth the

1211
01:57:09,990 --> 01:57:11,530
moratorium without carve outs.

1212
01:57:11,830 --> 01:57:15,890
I am not here to highlight the numerous environmental harm state centers cause and the reasons

1213
01:57:15,890 --> 01:57:17,170
the moratorium is necessary.

1214
01:57:17,170 --> 01:57:22,930
Other speakers are much more technically knowledgeable than myself on this subject, and so I want to lift up their expertise.

1215
01:57:23,910 --> 01:57:29,330
However, as a county resident who is appointed to the environmental affairs board by the Board of County Commissioners,

1216
01:57:29,710 --> 01:57:38,950
and who currently contributes many volunteer hours toward furthering the board's duties to both advise the city and county on environmental policy and to address community environmental concerns.

1217
01:57:38,950 --> 01:57:50,130
I want to emphasize the Durham communities call for a straightforward moratorium, and when you hear these calls for a moratorium, we are not saying we want a moratorium, but we are saying we want a moratorium period.

1218
01:57:50,810 --> 01:58:02,470
It is essential that there is an unbelievable pause on approval of data center projects to allow Durham County to collaborate with the city and create a set of guidelines that ensures the protection of our land and our people for all city and county residents.

1219
01:58:02,670 --> 01:58:02,970
Thank you.

1220
01:58:02,970 --> 01:58:04,810
Thank you.

1221
01:58:09,600 --> 01:58:18,160
Leslie, one second, one second. The next speakers will be Heidi Grabel, Randy

1222
01:58:18,160 --> 01:58:21,400
Coley, and Victoria Petersen.

1223
01:58:25,860 --> 01:58:29,320
Hi, I'm Leslie St. Dre, I'm a Durham resident here with

1224
01:58:29,320 --> 01:58:35,160
Community Land and Power and the Stop Data Center's in Durham Coalition, which is now 31 member

1225
01:58:35,160 --> 01:58:44,480
strong. We demand a moratorium without loopholes. Charlie did express 100,000 square foot

1226
01:58:44,480 --> 01:58:51,520
loopholes on August 3 that was a directive that was accepted by the staff and it is written

1227
01:58:51,520 --> 01:58:53,220
into the current draft.

1228
01:58:55,760 --> 01:59:00,080
We need no loopholes. That defeats loopholes defeat the entire purpose.

1229
01:59:00,080 --> 01:59:03,120
every data center big and small must be regulated.

1230
01:59:03,660 --> 01:59:08,340
There's no research stating smaller ones don't still use excessive dirty energy, water,

1231
01:59:08,560 --> 01:59:14,560
and toxic chemicals. IBM identifies 100,000 square feet as being capable of consuming

1232
01:59:14,560 --> 01:59:20,480
100 megawatts of energy. That's enough to power up to 100,000 homes.

1233
01:59:21,560 --> 01:59:25,380
Stop catering to the 1%. The people of Durham are the biggest stakeholders,

1234
01:59:25,380 --> 01:59:28,180
protect us all from data center harms.

1235
01:59:40,170 --> 01:59:40,670
Hi, V.

1236
01:59:42,390 --> 01:59:42,970
Grabble.

1237
01:59:43,910 --> 01:59:44,710
And then,

1238
01:59:45,090 --> 01:59:46,070
Grandi Kohli.

1239
01:59:49,920 --> 01:59:54,480
Thank you to everyone in this room tonight for coming together to do work for the responsible

1240
01:59:54,480 --> 01:59:55,800
Growth for Durham County.

1241
01:59:56,280 --> 01:59:59,900
Please vote to approve a complete moratorium on making data center.

1242
02:00:00,540 --> 02:00:08,800
Acceptance, at least as long as the city of Durham has set, preferably many months longer, just as wake, chatter, and orange county have done recently.

1243
02:00:09,380 --> 02:00:25,940
Most of the citizens, I have asked about this topic, have said to me, what is a data center? What you see tonight is a good, but not full representation of how Durham citizens feel, or believe, about data centers, because they truthfully do not know the pros and cons to consider.

1244
02:00:25,940 --> 02:00:33,540
Can you make and take the time for the citizens who elected you and trust you to make the informed decisions for them?

1245
02:00:34,380 --> 02:00:40,080
Mayor Leonardo Williams says the city of Durham is on the top of many of the best cities in the country lists.

1246
02:00:40,520 --> 02:00:46,800
Let's help him keep that status by representing those who voted for you by voting to take the time for Durham.

1247
02:00:46,800 --> 02:00:52,660
Please vote for the complete moratorium with no car bouts and in this voting for our

1248
02:00:52,660 --> 02:00:58,260
Environment property value citizen health and our reputation as a county and community. Thank you

1249
02:01:03,410 --> 02:01:05,270
Okay, so

1250
02:01:05,270 --> 02:01:06,450
out of Randy

1251
02:01:07,170 --> 02:01:07,870
Coli

1252
02:01:09,230 --> 02:01:12,130
Then we have Victoria Peterson

1253
02:01:14,030 --> 02:01:15,430
Christian Sykes

1254
02:01:17,510 --> 02:01:19,450
Then Robyn Lacy as

1255
02:01:23,200 --> 02:01:28,080
Ms. Petersen there. Oh, she had to let you okay

1256
02:01:28,080 --> 02:01:30,940
I was at Randy Kohli,

1257
02:01:38,940 --> 02:01:39,800
Christian Sykes,

1258
02:01:42,510 --> 02:01:43,310
and they were Robin Lazy.

1259
02:01:47,110 --> 02:01:48,210
Good evening, commissioners.

1260
02:01:48,390 --> 02:01:49,130
My name is Christian.

1261
02:01:49,390 --> 02:01:52,670
I'm a long time-derm resident and a member of Triangle DSA.

1262
02:01:53,670 --> 02:01:59,810
Let's be clear, the recent massive demand for data centers is driven entirely by the industry.

1263
02:02:00,550 --> 02:02:06,690
The basic functionality of the internet does not require anything like the craze for compute we are seeing.

1264
02:02:06,690 --> 02:02:08,910
And what is this industry after?

1265
02:02:09,510 --> 02:02:12,850
Sam Altman said, my job is to help people to straw jobs.

1266
02:02:13,590 --> 02:02:17,470
And I think AI will probably like most likely sort of lead

1267
02:02:17,470 --> 02:02:18,550
to the end of the world.

1268
02:02:18,850 --> 02:02:21,510
But in the meantime, there will be great companies created

1269
02:02:22,010 --> 02:02:24,850
is an anti-human project to its core

1270
02:02:24,850 --> 02:02:28,110
with shocking disregard for the immediate harms.

1271
02:02:28,830 --> 02:02:31,910
A project that deifies hyperscaled regression models

1272
02:02:31,910 --> 02:02:36,250
and callously diminishes the wonder and potential of collective humanity.

1273
02:02:36,870 --> 02:02:42,790
Making the absurd claim that maybe our own minds are merely next token predictors two.

1274
02:02:43,110 --> 02:02:46,550
As the board tonight to stand with the citizens of Durham County,

1275
02:02:46,930 --> 02:02:49,550
who on our home and our future to serve us,

1276
02:02:49,830 --> 02:02:54,330
not take oligarchs, pass the strongest data center more to our impossible.

1277
02:02:54,770 --> 02:02:55,750
Thank you.

1278
02:03:04,390 --> 02:03:09,890
Yeah, Rob and Lacy, and then Shoniz Rene.

1279
02:03:14,200 --> 02:03:15,060
Good evening.

1280
02:03:16,220 --> 02:03:17,680
Thank you, Ward, for hearing me.

1281
02:03:17,680 --> 02:03:19,040
My name is Rob and Lacy.

1282
02:03:19,780 --> 02:03:21,120
I live here in Durham.

1283
02:03:22,880 --> 02:03:27,440
And I just want to share that I live in the Parkwood area.

1284
02:03:27,480 --> 02:03:30,120
I'm very concerned about the data centers.

1285
02:03:30,520 --> 02:03:33,600
I oppose it one million percent.

1286
02:03:34,200 --> 02:03:35,240
And everything about it.

1287
02:03:35,240 --> 02:03:44,380
I actually live, probably, between 1.5 and 2 miles from Ord, PartiP area, and so I've just

1288
02:03:44,380 --> 02:03:50,260
heard gotten word through, I don't know, where, but that they were trying to put it there.

1289
02:03:52,220 --> 02:04:00,300
And I just want to say I ask you to vote no, considering all of the environmental problems that it causes,

1290
02:04:00,300 --> 02:04:09,000
the excessive water usage, the excessive electricity usage, and then the property value is going

1291
02:04:09,000 --> 02:04:20,580
to go down. It is not something to take away, so please vote no.

1292
02:04:25,990 --> 02:04:26,930
Thank you.

1293
02:04:32,720 --> 02:04:36,440
Thank you for the extension.

1294
02:04:37,820 --> 02:04:38,120
Hi.

1295
02:04:38,580 --> 02:04:39,960
My name is Shinis Renee.

1296
02:04:40,640 --> 02:04:47,220
I'm here tonight as part of the community-right and land and power coalition to request

1297
02:04:47,220 --> 02:04:51,180
a 12 month data center more and more at Torium.

1298
02:04:51,760 --> 02:04:57,400
Like we have in the city, do we delete the loop holes, make a mandatory to get community

1299
02:04:57,400 --> 02:04:58,980
input on this?

1300
02:04:58,980 --> 02:04:59,880
And we, really,

1301
02:05:00,000 --> 02:05:08,580
We need a firm for a longer have, but once again, we are here asking for the bare minimum from a council that

1302
02:05:08,580 --> 02:05:14,600
claimed to prioritize the health and well-being of this community, but when we speak up and

1303
02:05:14,600 --> 02:05:21,340
share the harms that the data centers deep in for a firm for a firm community, we basically

1304
02:05:21,340 --> 02:05:29,880
have the health and commissioners basically talking about if it ain't of how the money and

1305
02:05:29,880 --> 02:05:32,640
And we can't, we can't, we can't do that.

1306
02:05:32,940 --> 02:05:36,480
You say, you say that you work for, for community,

1307
02:05:37,000 --> 02:05:38,680
but we don't, we don't feel the fault for it,

1308
02:05:38,760 --> 02:05:43,880
but it body of that, of that at all, it seems like you,

1309
02:05:43,900 --> 02:05:46,360
you all, you all, it's all, all, all, all about you,

1310
02:05:46,800 --> 02:05:49,040
you, and forget forget forget forget about community.

1311
02:05:49,940 --> 02:05:52,160
Because you rock, rock, rock, and with AI,

1312
02:05:52,540 --> 02:05:55,700
but don't care if the effects make nature.

1313
02:05:56,000 --> 02:05:57,960
And then it can be community, die, and so,

1314
02:05:57,960 --> 02:05:59,800
so many ways on so many levels.

1315
02:06:00,240 --> 02:06:03,120
So I really hope that you all move,

1316
02:06:03,340 --> 02:06:08,180
we can't care for real and vote for at least a 12 month

1317
02:06:08,180 --> 02:06:10,360
that data's in a more and more and more at Torium.

1318
02:06:10,740 --> 02:06:11,700
Because just like,

1319
02:06:12,200 --> 02:06:13,300
y'all, y'all, y'all, y'all, y'all, y'all,

1320
02:06:13,300 --> 02:06:14,740
can get good to vote and to do it.

1321
02:06:15,900 --> 02:06:17,820
They, we, we as individuals,

1322
02:06:18,260 --> 02:06:21,120
we also have voting power.

1323
02:06:21,820 --> 02:06:23,520
And we're going to use the real world soon.

1324
02:06:32,540 --> 02:06:40,520
The next four

1325
02:06:46,310 --> 02:06:56,190
Camille Linerd, Ashley Daniels, Tia Hunt, and Wiley,

1326
02:07:11,400 --> 02:07:11,740
will come in and

1327
02:07:15,160 --> 02:07:25,300
My name is Camille Leonard, and I am a citizen of Durham, and I just want to point out there's data centers and there's AI data centers. They're not the same.

1328
02:07:25,560 --> 02:07:40,240
There's a data center at the top of this building is not what we're talking about. We're talking about AI. Steven Hawking's warned us warned us about this. AI is not a good thing for our community or for the future of our children.

1329
02:07:40,240 --> 02:07:47,200
This will take away their future. They will not be educated because they'll have AI doing everything for them

1330
02:07:47,200 --> 02:07:53,680
I'm like I look at all these young people. This is their future that you are jeopardizing if you vote

1331
02:07:53,680 --> 02:07:55,460
Against are you vote for this?

1332
02:07:55,780 --> 02:07:57,240
This is their future

1333
02:07:57,240 --> 02:08:01,360
I'm really really concerned about that and I'm sorry

1334
02:08:01,360 --> 02:08:02,440
I got a little emotional

1335
02:08:03,180 --> 02:08:03,780
but

1336
02:08:03,780 --> 02:08:09,540
I really think there's a difference between the AI and data centers and people want it in

1337
02:08:09,540 --> 02:08:13,200
All our intelligence and state, a data center is just a data center.

1338
02:08:13,320 --> 02:08:14,020
No, it's not.

1339
02:08:14,060 --> 02:08:15,340
It's an AI data center.

1340
02:08:15,420 --> 02:08:16,040
It's huge.

1341
02:08:16,260 --> 02:08:17,240
It is unnecessary.

1342
02:08:28,200 --> 02:08:36,460
My name is Ashley Daniels, speaking a message from JT Davis in loud and counting

1343
02:08:36,460 --> 02:08:37,040
Virginia.

1344
02:08:38,600 --> 02:08:44,000
For the past couple decades data center developers were able to apply for new construction

1345
02:08:44,000 --> 02:08:48,720
through a zoning loophole that allowed data centers to be treated as standard office buildings.

1346
02:08:49,480 --> 02:08:53,700
This unprecedented growth is strained the electrical grid to a crippling degree.

1347
02:08:54,520 --> 02:09:03,480
Since just 2018, the amount of electrical use in loud and counting data centers has quadrupled.

1348
02:09:04,600 --> 02:09:10,500
In the data center is here, use about 25% of the minion electrics energy in the state of Virginia.

1349
02:09:11,540 --> 02:09:17,460
If there is a power surge at one data center in Ashburn, the effects can be false across several states.

1350
02:09:18,260 --> 02:09:24,660
When considering new data center construction, it's not just a physical building to be considered, it's also the electrical grid.

1351
02:09:25,460 --> 02:09:31,760
The new substations in the transmission lines that will eventually be required to accommodate it.

1352
02:09:32,080 --> 02:09:35,420
Pass the complete more time with no loop holes on your constituents.

1353
02:09:44,640 --> 02:09:47,600
Ms. Tiahan, I'm a citizen of Columbia Tribe of North Carolina.

1354
02:09:48,400 --> 02:09:51,120
I'm really frustrated that we started tonight with a land acknowledgement,

1355
02:09:51,120 --> 02:09:55,820
proclaiming that we want to move forward with justice for all who inhabit this land and then

1356
02:09:55,820 --> 02:09:59,380
we're having this conversation that we're having tonight at Moratorium that's giving

1357
02:09:59,380 --> 02:09:59,960
and we'll pause.

1358
02:10:00,000 --> 02:10:28,900
For we already know two data centers want to come in to the county. But there's no clear understanding of how these will affect our people. We heard tonight that we don't have the regulations to regulate these data centers. We don't even have the definitions within the county ordinances. So this is just fully selling out the people of Durham, allowing these data centers to come in and not knowing exactly what the impact will be. A moratorium will give the county more time to think about this and research. And so I don't see what the issue is erasing. We know that the technology is rapidly adapting.

1359
02:10:29,640 --> 02:10:34,520
We have no control over that, but we can't listen, do research and figure out a way for it.

1360
02:10:34,800 --> 02:10:41,320
So no more Tauriant without, more Tauriant without, or more Tauriant with exceptions.

1361
02:10:42,340 --> 02:10:44,000
It's not a more Tauriant, and we don't need that.

1362
02:10:44,460 --> 02:10:44,940
Thank you.

1363
02:10:44,940 --> 02:10:44,940
Thank

1364
02:10:51,050 --> 02:10:53,150
you.

1365
02:10:53,710 --> 02:11:02,630
We have Wiley, Corn Blush, Blush, Plunt, Wiley is

1366
02:11:09,670 --> 02:11:16,090
a V from the I think it's VE from

1367
02:11:16,750 --> 02:11:20,690
Local 100 North Carolina Public Service Workers.

1368
02:11:21,430 --> 02:11:30,070
Yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah, there. Just as the here. You can do years speaking next.

1369
02:11:30,910 --> 02:11:34,470
Then Dr. Raina. I'm sorry.

1370
02:11:37,070 --> 02:11:37,710
I'm

1371
02:11:42,770 --> 02:11:46,850
sorry. I'm sorry. Say that. Okay. Then we have Alan Fryer

1372
02:11:48,700 --> 02:11:56,680
and Sandra Smith non non nini. I hope I said that right.

1373
02:12:05,700 --> 02:12:06,700
Good evening to everyone

1374
02:12:07,700 --> 02:12:14,140
commissioners, the county manager, the attorney, during residence in the other organizations

1375
02:12:14,140 --> 02:12:19,680
that are represented here. My name is Daryon Smith. I remember and speak on behalf of

1376
02:12:19,680 --> 02:12:25,660
UE Local 150, the North Carolina Public Service Workers Jr. In June to stop data centers

1377
02:12:25,660 --> 02:12:30,560
in Durham Coalition, one of vital year-long citywide, moratorium on data centers.

1378
02:12:35,460 --> 02:12:36,060
Now,

1379
02:12:36,060 --> 02:12:40,820
any moratorium that is just a strong or stronger than the cities, with zero

1380
02:12:40,820 --> 02:12:46,480
loopholes or size exemptions. Big tech wants us to believe that only massive

1381
02:12:46,480 --> 02:12:50,780
facilities matter, but every data center drains our water drives up by electricity

1382
02:12:50,780 --> 02:12:57,080
bills and pollutes our air. First yet, the unchecked rise of AI data centers

1383
02:12:57,080 --> 02:13:02,760
threatens working people. AI's use to squeeze labor, could jobs, or to make our

1384
02:13:02,760 --> 02:13:07,780
that's into oblivion, while patting the pockets of tech billionaires.

1385
02:13:11,070 --> 02:13:14,810
Oh snap. That was a quick minute, wasn't it?

1386
02:13:16,010 --> 02:13:18,990
I just got that objective a couple seconds ago.

1387
02:13:19,030 --> 02:13:22,510
Do we look for 150 calls on Durham County commissioners to pass a

1388
02:13:22,510 --> 02:13:25,450
street data center moratorium match in the city to help up polls?

1389
02:13:26,090 --> 02:13:28,750
All data centers bring heavy environmental and economic burdens.

1390
02:13:29,230 --> 02:13:33,090
We must pause. All development without new polls protect our community and

1391
02:13:33,090 --> 02:13:35,770
Here, we'll save God's work as against ASploitation.

1392
02:13:36,310 --> 02:13:38,810
We deserve a full protection by a permanent rules of written.

1393
02:13:38,970 --> 02:13:43,230
Do not leave our county vulnerable to unregulated greed, pass a robust data center

1394
02:13:43,230 --> 02:13:44,010
moratorium now.

1395
02:13:44,330 --> 02:13:44,790
Thank you.

1396
02:13:44,990 --> 02:13:45,570
Thank you.

1397
02:14:01,120 --> 02:14:01,640
Good evening.

1398
02:14:02,740 --> 02:14:06,700
My name is Daniel Masri, co-director of the North Carolina Environmental Justice Network.

1399
02:14:07,640 --> 02:14:13,380
I ask you to pass a clear, rational moratorium to protect our communities, therefore without

1400
02:14:13,380 --> 02:14:14,060
exceptions.

1401
02:14:14,060 --> 02:14:22,680
A simple Google search will reveal that 100,000 square feet of a data center can use 20 to 100 megawatts.

1402
02:14:23,320 --> 02:14:32,960
20 to 100 megawatts, a simple Google search also reveals that a hyperscale data center uses 20 to 100 megawatts.

1403
02:14:33,400 --> 02:14:43,420
A simple Google search also reveals that the average data center in the United States as of August of this year is 100,000 square feet.

1404
02:14:43,420 --> 02:14:54,480
Yes, there are larger ones, but this is the average size, so simple research reveals that closed loop systems increase energy usage and may increase PFAS contamination.

1405
02:14:55,240 --> 02:14:59,960
When these exceptions, this is not a moratorium, but a pause of c...

1406
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:07,120
Continued data center development. I ask you to reject it as it stands. I also say that as the North Carolina

1407
02:15:07,120 --> 02:15:12,680
environmental justice network, we are here to support research since the simple, Google research

1408
02:15:12,680 --> 02:15:15,460
seemed not to be available to yourself.

1409
02:15:27,640 --> 02:15:33,120
Good evening, Chairman Lee. Vice-Chairman Alam, distinguished members of the Commission. Thank you

1410
02:15:33,120 --> 02:15:37,620
for listening to us tonight. My name is Alan Freyer. I'm on the board of the Durham People's

1411
02:15:37,620 --> 02:15:41,420
alliance, the Durham People's Alliance, urges you strongly to adopt the city ordinance.

1412
02:15:42,140 --> 02:15:46,860
I'm also here as Executive Director of Good Jobs First, we're a national research and policy

1413
02:15:46,860 --> 02:15:51,680
organization that advises communities all across the country on economic development and

1414
02:15:51,680 --> 02:15:54,020
data center fights just like this one.

1415
02:15:54,680 --> 02:15:58,220
We have analyzed the legislation, I appreciate staffs effort in putting it together.

1416
02:15:58,540 --> 02:16:02,880
We do have significant concerns about sections 4A and 4D, the exemptions there.

1417
02:16:02,880 --> 02:16:07,400
In particular, we're concerned that it's not quite going to do what you want it to do.

1418
02:16:07,720 --> 02:16:12,180
I appreciate the effort to try to ban hyper scale data centers, but when you add together

1419
02:16:12,180 --> 02:16:17,160
just the two projects currently in the pipeline or apparently 100,000 square feet of piece,

1420
02:16:17,440 --> 02:16:23,040
that already gets you to 200,000 which staff tells us is the minimum for what a hyper scale data

1421
02:16:23,040 --> 02:16:28,380
center is. So we're already there with what's in the pipeline. And so the second thing I would say

1422
02:16:28,380 --> 02:16:35,420
That allowed counties come up as an example a couple of times as an example of how you can generate lots of property taxes with these data centers.

1423
02:16:36,200 --> 02:16:44,980
They have a very special tax on the data chips that go into the servers that we can't have here because our legislature of course preempted it.

1424
02:16:45,140 --> 02:16:47,260
So we won't get that property tax if we do it.

1425
02:16:47,260 --> 02:16:47,520
Thank you.

1426
02:16:57,370 --> 02:16:59,650
I'm Sandy Smith, no needy.

1427
02:16:59,730 --> 02:17:03,230
I'm Durham citizen and anthropologist who just finished

1428
02:17:03,230 --> 02:17:07,670
a book on energy crises at UNC.

1429
02:17:08,670 --> 02:17:11,470
The current rush to hyperscaled data center

1430
02:17:11,470 --> 02:17:13,450
infrastructure poses a serious risk

1431
02:17:13,450 --> 02:17:16,090
to reliability of the North Carolina electric grid.

1432
02:17:16,730 --> 02:17:19,810
A one megawatt data center, small one,

1433
02:17:20,010 --> 02:17:23,510
consumes as much as 600 to 1,000 homes.

1434
02:17:23,510 --> 02:17:37,050
It also wipes out essential progress in phasing out planet-faith-heating fossil fuels on the grid at a time when North Carolina faces an existential threat as droughts get longer and water supplies diminish.

1435
02:17:37,290 --> 02:17:39,790
This is the future you want for your kids.

1436
02:17:41,390 --> 02:17:53,330
The current research by Bloomberg shows that plant data center build-outs will increase greenhouse gas emissions from the electric sector by at least 20%

1437
02:17:53,330 --> 02:17:56,430
perhaps as much as one third.

1438
02:17:57,570 --> 02:18:00,430
Data Center hype is driven by a spike.

1439
02:18:01,430 --> 02:18:02,490
You can finish your sentence.

1440
02:18:02,970 --> 02:18:08,390
A spike in AI-related stock values, which is drive and driving a search and see

1441
02:18:08,390 --> 02:18:13,190
as a perverse drive for higher employment, higher unemployment in the general population

1442
02:18:13,190 --> 02:18:17,070
that will produce extra profits for wealthy tech corporations and billionaires.

1443
02:18:17,310 --> 02:18:18,150
Think about it.

1444
02:18:25,900 --> 02:18:26,520
Okay,

1445
02:18:29,060 --> 02:18:34,540
I don't know what the first name is, but it's campus campus, then it is

1446
02:18:41,810 --> 02:18:42,770
Printed Williams,

1447
02:18:44,940 --> 02:18:47,580
the last name is Williams, starts with a P.

1448
02:18:49,220 --> 02:18:52,020
Is it Prince? Is that Prince Williams?

1449
02:18:52,600 --> 02:18:53,380
Okay, I'm sorry.

1450
02:18:55,040 --> 02:18:56,920
Then, eight in

1451
02:19:00,380 --> 02:19:01,300
perp.

1452
02:19:12,660 --> 02:19:18,820
Good evening, everybody. My name is Tulsa. I'm a proud member and organizer with a party for socialism and liberation.

1453
02:19:19,100 --> 02:19:24,320
Most importantly, I'm also a proud community member of Durham and a Durham Public Schools

1454
02:19:24,320 --> 02:19:25,860
K-12 Allem.

1455
02:19:26,300 --> 02:19:31,220
A strongland courage and demand this body to pass a loophole free no-carb moratorium.

1456
02:19:32,100 --> 02:19:36,560
Parks across Durham are already poisoned with lead toxic chemicals and chocinogens,

1457
02:19:37,000 --> 02:19:38,920
place where our children go seeking fun.

1458
02:19:39,960 --> 02:19:43,760
Data centers add to our already poisoned environments with a runoff water,

1459
02:19:43,760 --> 02:19:50,640
seeping PFAS chemicals forever chemicals used in their cooling systems to kill our communities further.

1460
02:19:51,280 --> 02:19:55,860
For this excuse time and time again that things aren't as black and white as they seem.

1461
02:19:56,460 --> 02:19:59,280
But I see this excuse as a way to cop out of your responsibilities.

1462
02:20:01,490 --> 02:20:27,270
To the community who is to suffer the consequences of your choices, the decision is simple. You either align yourself with people that you serve, and think of them over money greed and the needs of corporations, or you show us that the health and well being of everybody in here is not of your concern. It's not black and white. There is either a right or wrong choice, and I help for your health, and well being, and ours, you make the right choice.

1463
02:20:35,200 --> 02:20:40,880
My name is Prince Williams. I'm a resident of Durham. I'm also a proud member of the party for socialism and liberation.

1464
02:20:41,880 --> 02:20:46,120
I want to remind this body that Durham City and Durham County is a historically black region.

1465
02:20:46,640 --> 02:20:54,740
And it's historically black neighborhoods that are far too often used as construction sites for pollution and cancer causing facilities.

1466
02:20:55,700 --> 02:21:03,020
Without strong guards to how, how, when and where these data centers are built, it will be the black community who suffers the most.

1467
02:21:03,020 --> 02:21:08,960
and black families will be pushed out of Durham City in Durham County. Black children are nearly

1468
02:21:08,960 --> 02:21:14,680
four and a half times more likely to die from asthma than other children. Black adults are

1469
02:21:14,680 --> 02:21:20,400
disproportionately diagnosed with heart disease and high blood pressure. And the list goes on

1470
02:21:20,400 --> 02:21:25,400
the disproportionate effects of health outcomes of black people in this country and all of these health

1471
02:21:25,400 --> 02:21:30,620
conditions can be exacerbated by the pollutants of data centers. It is not an understatement to say

1472
02:21:30,620 --> 02:21:33,220
that is a matter of life and death for black residents

1473
02:21:33,220 --> 02:21:34,460
and Durham County.

1474
02:21:35,420 --> 02:21:38,460
We support a total moratorium without exception

1475
02:21:38,460 --> 02:21:40,420
as the only way forward.

1476
02:21:41,860 --> 02:21:42,440
Thank you.

1477
02:21:51,500 --> 02:21:52,820
Good evening, commissioners.

1478
02:21:53,000 --> 02:21:53,940
My name is Aidan.

1479
02:21:54,140 --> 02:21:56,280
I'm a Durham native and I'm a proud member

1480
02:21:56,280 --> 02:21:57,700
of Triangle DSA.

1481
02:21:58,200 --> 02:22:01,280
I'm here speaking in favor of the strong loophole

1482
02:22:01,280 --> 02:22:02,180
free moratorium.

1483
02:22:02,400 --> 02:22:04,160
We need to protect the Durham

1484
02:22:04,160 --> 02:22:07,680
from the on-democratic imposition of data centers

1485
02:22:07,680 --> 02:22:14,580
by corporations. In DSA, we strongly believe in worker-led, political and economic democracy.

1486
02:22:15,220 --> 02:22:20,840
The broad coalition of organizations here with us today demonstrate that those people

1487
02:22:20,840 --> 02:22:27,940
are in favor of a strong moratorium. So, I urge you, govern for the working people of Durham

1488
02:22:27,940 --> 02:22:34,000
not for a minority of tech elites. We've made it clear what we want. We want these loopholes

1489
02:22:34,000 --> 02:22:37,600
removed and we want the time to write a strong ordinance

1490
02:22:37,600 --> 02:22:42,260
regulating all data centers. I know many of you have worked hard to

1491
02:22:42,260 --> 02:22:46,200
serve this community for years and even decades. Make the right

1492
02:22:46,200 --> 02:22:50,980
choice today. Right or wrong, it will be remembered. Thank you.

1493
02:22:58,980 --> 02:23:09,800
Okay, so we have, I want to say, Alasal Highman. I think

1494
02:23:13,190 --> 02:23:15,050
it's

1495
02:23:15,050 --> 02:23:15,590
then

1496
02:23:19,240 --> 02:23:20,960
Meg and Honic

1497
02:23:25,400 --> 02:23:38,230
and Edgar Anita and Victoria Plant in

1498
02:23:47,890 --> 02:23:48,730
his first.

1499
02:23:55,330 --> 02:23:56,350
Thank you for your patience.

1500
02:23:57,490 --> 02:24:01,830
Hi everybody, my name is AJ and I'm with Sunrise Triangle.

1501
02:24:02,410 --> 02:24:09,670
It's hard to believe that in this year of 26 humanity is still putting its head in the sand while climate change wreaks havoc on the globe.

1502
02:24:09,670 --> 02:24:13,210
They're hitting the most vulnerable and least corporate artist.

1503
02:24:14,090 --> 02:24:15,230
Where I come, sorry.

1504
02:24:15,570 --> 02:24:18,210
Where I'm from, a statewide drought has become

1505
02:24:18,210 --> 02:24:19,230
the unfortunate norm.

1506
02:24:20,270 --> 02:24:23,070
I've had multiple relatives lose their homes to wildfires.

1507
02:24:24,010 --> 02:24:25,250
The summer before my freshman year,

1508
02:24:25,390 --> 02:24:26,870
I watched the hills behind my high school

1509
02:24:26,870 --> 02:24:29,310
being gulfed in flames, not knowing whether or not

1510
02:24:29,310 --> 02:24:30,590
my high school would still be standing

1511
02:24:30,590 --> 02:24:32,030
come the first day of class.

1512
02:24:32,770 --> 02:24:35,010
Knowing how much water, data centers consume,

1513
02:24:35,170 --> 02:24:38,070
while watching billionaires, CEOs, and elected officials

1514
02:24:38,070 --> 02:24:42,430
been over backwards to sacrifice our fresh water during a worsening drought makes me sick.

1515
02:24:43,190 --> 02:24:46,350
There's always a price to pay and there seems to be a pattern on who's left with the

1516
02:24:46,350 --> 02:24:46,610
bill.

1517
02:24:47,010 --> 02:24:49,970
It's the working class, the youth, and the houseless.

1518
02:24:50,530 --> 02:24:55,910
All while the richer get rich, often aided by self-interested elected officials, commissioners,

1519
02:24:56,430 --> 02:24:58,590
if you're better than that, step up and prove it.

1520
02:24:58,590 --> 02:24:59,970
Protect our land, our community.

1521
02:25:04,500 --> 02:25:06,560
We're counting on you.

1522
02:25:14,640 --> 02:25:37,820
Good evening. My name is Megan Honig and I've been a resident of Durham County for the past 11 years. I worked in the tech industry as a software developer. The kinds of AI tools enabled by the data centers we're here to discuss tonight are becoming standard in my field of work. So you might think it's against my own interests to come here as I do in support of the strongest possible moratorium against data centers in Durham County.

1523
02:25:37,840 --> 02:25:43,640
But I am not just a tech worker, I am also a human being who depends on the air and water and during county.

1524
02:25:44,600 --> 02:25:48,960
And I am a neighbor of some 300,000 other humans who do the same.

1525
02:25:49,260 --> 02:25:58,280
It is in this capacity that I call upon the county commissioners to enact the strongest possible moratorium with no carvouts, no loopholes.

1526
02:25:58,620 --> 02:25:58,900
Thank you.

1527
02:26:07,180 --> 02:26:08,680
Good evening board and county members.

1528
02:26:08,820 --> 02:26:10,020
My name is Edgar Audietta.

1529
02:26:10,020 --> 02:26:15,240
I'm a member of the Socialism and Liberation, as well as a resident of our dear Durham.

1530
02:26:15,700 --> 02:26:24,200
However, I grew up not too far from here in Warren County, our and some change away in the birthplace of the international environmental justice movement.

1531
02:26:25,620 --> 02:26:33,640
And this was sparked by, you know, greedy, careless corporations dumping toxic cancer, causing PCBs along North Carolina's roadways.

1532
02:26:33,640 --> 02:26:40,500
And then the state chose to build the designated landfill in a rural, low-income and predominately black county.

1533
02:26:41,340 --> 02:26:49,660
And while we fill legal challenges, residents and civil rights leaders watching a seven-week nonviolent protest in 1982, some of you may even remember that.

1534
02:26:49,700 --> 02:26:54,820
And over 500 demonstrators who laid down in the path of dump trucks full of toxic soil were arrested.

1535
02:26:55,340 --> 02:27:02,880
And I grew up hearing stories from these courageous individuals and I cannot help but see that history does not have a way of repeating but rhyming.

1536
02:27:02,880 --> 02:27:08,960
Because we are at a similar crossroads and this time it's affecting rule and non-rule communities alike

1537
02:27:08,960 --> 02:27:11,000
A similar environmental crisis is a similar

1538
02:27:11,000 --> 02:27:17,440
Cabral system putting profit and self-interest over the people in the planet that we actually live here

1539
02:27:17,440 --> 02:27:25,750
I am here in support of the strongest possible moratorium 32 months out of now loophole free. Please do the right thing. I am poor you to do the right thing. Thank you. Thank you

1540
02:27:31,860 --> 02:27:34,690
Victoria once again once again once again once again

1541
02:27:34,690 --> 02:27:40,170
We'll have Samantha Crop, then we'll go to Molly Crab,

1542
02:27:42,720 --> 02:27:43,920
then Clark Thomas,

1543
02:27:48,650 --> 02:27:50,210
then Elizabeth Thomas.

1544
02:27:52,840 --> 02:27:54,440
Sorry, go ahead.

1545
02:27:55,380 --> 02:27:56,800
Good evening, commissioners.

1546
02:27:56,880 --> 02:28:02,680
I'm here tonight because I'm a young person concerned about climate change and scared for my future.

1547
02:28:03,560 --> 02:28:10,480
Tonight I'd like to appeal to your sense of reason not yell at you and say yes, this is a nuanced issue.

1548
02:28:10,480 --> 02:28:17,040
not all data centers are the same, not all of them are AI or hyper-scalors, they all require different regulations.

1549
02:28:17,600 --> 02:28:22,220
However, we must study them first and that's the whole point of this moratorium.

1550
02:28:22,940 --> 02:28:29,080
I think those two companies will be fine not building another data center in the next nine months,

1551
02:28:29,580 --> 02:28:31,980
and I'm not really sure why we need these carve outs.

1552
02:28:32,500 --> 02:28:35,580
So let's have that messy regulations conversation later,

1553
02:28:35,760 --> 02:28:39,200
but for now, please amend the ordinance and pass the loophole free moratorium.

1554
02:28:39,200 --> 02:28:40,440
Thank you.

1555
02:28:48,080 --> 02:28:51,580
Thank you for the opportunity to speak. My name is Samantha Crop. I work as a

1556
02:28:51,580 --> 02:28:56,520
new striver keeper and director of advocacy for a local water quality nonprofit and I'm also

1557
02:28:56,520 --> 02:29:01,160
a brand new mom who is concerned about our collective future. As a water person, I want to talk

1558
02:29:01,160 --> 02:29:06,420
about water and I want to address the myth that closed loop cooling systems are somehow environmentally

1559
02:29:06,420 --> 02:29:12,680
friendly alternatives. Close loop does not mean zero waste. It does not mean zero water use

1560
02:29:12,680 --> 02:29:13,660
through zero pollution.

1561
02:29:14,280 --> 02:29:16,540
According to an article from the National Institute of Health

1562
02:29:16,540 --> 02:29:20,880
in closed loop systems, loss of 25% of system volume per month

1563
02:29:20,880 --> 02:29:25,140
is not uncommon due to issues like leaks and seals.

1564
02:29:25,860 --> 02:29:27,300
And even when functioning properly,

1565
02:29:27,480 --> 02:29:29,720
closed loop systems require high quality water

1566
02:29:29,720 --> 02:29:31,920
and often use chemicals to prevent corrosion

1567
02:29:31,920 --> 02:29:33,280
and bacterial growth.

1568
02:29:33,500 --> 02:29:36,000
When that water is flushed or discharged, it can carry

1569
02:29:36,000 --> 02:29:38,240
biosides, corrosion inhibitors, heavy metals,

1570
02:29:38,420 --> 02:29:41,000
and potentially PFOS, which we know are forever chemicals.

1571
02:29:41,000 --> 02:29:46,140
And these go to our wastewater treatment plants, which aren't always designed to remove all of these contaminants.

1572
02:29:46,740 --> 02:29:52,040
And so what happens is they get discharged directly into our rivers, our streams, and ultimately our drinking water.

1573
02:29:52,500 --> 02:29:56,140
Please pass a strong moratorium for all new data center development.

1574
02:29:56,620 --> 02:29:59,960
Until we have the science, safeguards, and sidewalks necessary to protect us.

1575
02:30:00,000 --> 02:30:02,040
If there are water security and communities, thank you.

1576
02:30:02,040 --> 02:30:02,680
Thank you, Ms. Croft.

1577
02:30:09,920 --> 02:30:16,020
Hi, my name is Molly Crab. I'm a Durham resident, a social worker and a proud member of the Party for Socialism and Liberation.

1578
02:30:16,740 --> 02:30:21,160
I'm here to urge you to pass a strong, loophole-free data-centered moratorium tonight.

1579
02:30:21,760 --> 02:30:31,000
The rapid invasion of data-centered's happening nationwide is the latest way that corporations are maximizing profits through artificial intelligence with working class people bearing the costs.

1580
02:30:31,620 --> 02:30:36,340
There are over 90 data centers in North Carolina alone, and over a dozen more being proposed.

1581
02:30:36,960 --> 02:30:46,900
Those costs include polluting our waterways in land, poisoning people with forever chemicals, and constant noise pollution, and jacking up already skyrocketing utility bills.

1582
02:30:47,580 --> 02:30:51,100
These costs are regardless of the data center size.

1583
02:30:51,860 --> 02:30:59,160
And thanks to that, we pull a big tech and run rampant with unregulated electricity usage in our county, and as you heard, we don't even know the impact of this usage.

1584
02:30:59,160 --> 02:31:01,520
County Commissioners tonight you have a choice.

1585
02:31:01,740 --> 02:31:04,960
Stand with the people of Durham or stand with corporate interests.

1586
02:31:05,620 --> 02:31:09,160
Pass a strong loophole free moratorium protect our health and our future.

1587
02:31:09,560 --> 02:31:10,300
Thank you.

1588
02:31:17,610 --> 02:31:18,310
Good evening.

1589
02:31:18,570 --> 02:31:20,450
Chair, commissioners.

1590
02:31:20,550 --> 02:31:21,490
Appreciate your service.

1591
02:31:21,970 --> 02:31:23,110
My name is Clark Thomas.

1592
02:31:23,350 --> 02:31:25,470
I'm a longtime resident of Durham County.

1593
02:31:26,410 --> 02:31:34,370
And I'm asking you to impose a moratorium with no carve outs or loopholes.

1594
02:31:35,430 --> 02:31:42,410
One of the things I didn't want to talk to you about with respect to what this industry is being driven by AI, which is a bubble.

1595
02:31:43,050 --> 02:31:58,110
And what's going to happen when that bubble burst and all this infrastructure has been put in place and who's going to pay the bill for those extensions of services to these centers that are no longer in service?

1596
02:31:58,110 --> 02:32:06,010
that's going to be passed on to us, and so there are secondary effects, not just cumulative

1597
02:32:06,010 --> 02:32:06,570
effects.

1598
02:32:07,150 --> 02:32:09,790
Thank you for your vote and your time to tell you.

1599
02:32:17,570 --> 02:32:18,370
Good evening, commissioner.

1600
02:32:18,670 --> 02:32:20,290
My name is Elizabeth Thomas.

1601
02:32:20,850 --> 02:32:22,490
Long time resident of Durham County.

1602
02:32:23,290 --> 02:32:27,850
I'm here tonight to talk to you and ask you please to vote.

1603
02:32:28,130 --> 02:32:33,170
Yes, on the moratorium, a complete moratorium, not a car about not loopholes.

1604
02:32:33,170 --> 02:32:37,250
You represent us, the citizens, not big tech.

1605
02:32:38,010 --> 02:32:40,510
We are asking you to put a pause on data centers.

1606
02:32:40,870 --> 02:32:43,170
There's so much we don't know about them,

1607
02:32:43,610 --> 02:32:46,030
but the things we do know are not good.

1608
02:32:46,810 --> 02:32:49,490
One of the things I saw on this chart

1609
02:32:49,490 --> 02:32:52,910
was data centers create very few permanent positions.

1610
02:32:53,090 --> 02:32:55,150
Most are temporary construction jobs.

1611
02:32:55,650 --> 02:32:59,090
They produce 100 times fewer jobs per unit of energy

1612
02:32:59,090 --> 02:33:00,170
than other industries.

1613
02:33:00,170 --> 02:33:08,290
every $1.95 million in subsidies yields one permanent job. Think of the future of our children

1614
02:33:08,290 --> 02:33:15,110
and of the people that cannot be here to speak tonight. Our children are not here. The animals cannot speak for themselves.

1615
02:33:15,510 --> 02:33:18,130
Please give us a good vote tonight.

1616
02:33:29,200 --> 02:33:41,520
Okay, we have, um, is it much harder or meet, meet, meet, meet, harder, um, we have

1617
02:33:41,520 --> 02:33:55,020
Jen, Jen, Waison, Waison, Emily Sutton and then Kayla,

1618
02:33:57,620 --> 02:34:00,820
I go last time, Kayla,

1619
02:34:05,580 --> 02:34:05,580
Kayla.

1620
02:34:06,040 --> 02:34:10,000
Great. Thanks. My name is Mish Carter. I'm a member of the Jerome City County Environmental

1621
02:34:10,000 --> 02:34:14,380
Affairs Board, but I'm here today in my personal capacity. First, I'd like to know who

1622
02:34:14,380 --> 02:34:18,320
County is met with from the Environmental Affairs Board and what was substantively discussed.

1623
02:34:18,960 --> 02:34:23,480
I'm a liaison for the AAB's data center regulations working group and we were approached

1624
02:34:23,480 --> 02:34:27,860
to have a conversation to be clear that conversation has not been had.

1625
02:34:27,980 --> 02:34:29,900
I have the email received to prove it.

1626
02:34:30,160 --> 02:34:33,700
This moratorium certainly was not brought to our board and any kind of capacity.

1627
02:34:34,140 --> 02:34:38,580
We would have loved to advise that I personally, as a member, support a moratorium

1628
02:34:38,580 --> 02:34:43,820
longer than nine months and I specifically oppose the carve out for 100,000 square foot facilities.

1629
02:34:43,820 --> 02:34:52,680
I work in energy, data centers of all sizes are often accompanied by fossil fuel generation and non-diesel could easily mean methane gas.

1630
02:34:52,940 --> 02:34:59,980
We're seeing the exact same thing in Richmond County right now, where there are 650 diesel generators being proposed and an Amazon...

1631
02:35:00,000 --> 02:35:05,400
On site, when that diesel is removed, methane gas will be flowing through those generators, powering

1632
02:35:05,400 --> 02:35:11,960
that data center in Richmond County. I also want to mention, pausing a more atorium is very necessary

1633
02:35:11,960 --> 02:35:14,520
for us, and I encourage you to support it. Thank you.

1634
02:35:25,030 --> 02:35:29,110
Good evening, commissioners. My name is Jen, and I'm here today as a term resident, triangle

1635
02:35:29,110 --> 02:35:34,450
DSA member, and a person who simply cares about my community. Commissioners, it is not just us

1636
02:35:34,450 --> 02:35:38,670
from the public community to be concerned about AI and data centers taking our jobs. We're

1637
02:35:38,670 --> 02:35:42,270
This is an interesting nationally that elected officials are hurting their own job security

1638
02:35:42,890 --> 02:35:46,930
with their action supporting unregulated data-centered development, as there have been

1639
02:35:46,930 --> 02:35:51,890
33 recall efforts in the first six months of 2026 related to data-centered development.

1640
02:35:52,250 --> 02:35:55,410
Not to mention the toll on reelection chances.

1641
02:35:56,270 --> 02:36:00,350
You all can see the turnout today, as well as from the emails that I'm sure you have been receiving,

1642
02:36:00,750 --> 02:36:04,910
on how Durham County residents want a strong data-centered moratorium without loopholes.

1643
02:36:04,910 --> 02:36:18,090
We had a positive data center built out so we can first make laws that protect our jobs, our electricity bills, our waterways, and our communities out large from the cost of rushed poorly planned and often times purposeless data centers.

1644
02:36:18,670 --> 02:36:24,870
Us residents are aware of the problems with these data centers. Please use your votes today to side with us. Thank you.

1645
02:36:32,870 --> 02:36:39,430
Good evening. I'm a small farmer in North Durham. I'm not good at public speaking, so I'm doing my best right now.

1646
02:36:39,430 --> 02:36:45,770
I want to say thank you to Durham County because you all saved my farm this year.

1647
02:36:46,090 --> 02:37:00,150
Durham County funded sister which enabled us to save 1,000 gallons of water in addition to our well which eventually got so dry with the drought this year and I'm asking you to save our farm again.

1648
02:37:00,770 --> 02:37:07,630
I want a strong moratorium. I want 32 months because we need to do lots of research and the research isn't there yet.

1649
02:37:08,170 --> 02:37:14,030
We need to see longer term effects. I'm really concerned about water. I'm really concerned

1650
02:37:14,030 --> 02:37:19,190
about water. I need water to grow food. We have, I don't know how many recalls, I don't

1651
02:37:19,190 --> 02:37:23,630
know how many new people are coming to my small farm and asking for food because they don't

1652
02:37:23,630 --> 02:37:29,230
feel safe buying food in the grocery store. And Durham County has the opportunity to enhance

1653
02:37:29,230 --> 02:37:34,210
the support you have for small farmers by making sure our water is clean and we can grow food

1654
02:37:34,210 --> 02:37:39,470
residents and I don't want to compete with data centers for lands and I don't want

1655
02:37:39,470 --> 02:37:43,570
the young farmers to either. It's already too expensive. Thank you.

1656
02:37:50,620 --> 02:37:55,940
One moment, Kayla, one moment. We have Stephanie Gans,

1657
02:38:00,470 --> 02:38:01,330
Mustafa,

1658
02:38:03,400 --> 02:38:04,020
and Mustafa.

1659
02:38:07,010 --> 02:38:13,310
Then Charla Reals. Yeah, that's what Charla Reals.

1660
02:38:16,600 --> 02:38:24,360
Chair Lee, Commissioner Jacobs. This is what an AI data center sounds like 24, 7, 365.

1661
02:39:23,110 --> 02:39:24,950
Would you want to live next to that?

1662
02:39:36,120 --> 02:39:41,960
Hi, my name is Stephanie Gens. I'm a Durham resident and executive director of a nonprofit called Clean Water for North Carolina.

1663
02:39:42,880 --> 02:39:53,080
I just want to share a little bit of what we're seeing across North Carolina right now, which is that data centers have to wait a long time to get the transmission infrastructure that they need in order to run.

1664
02:39:53,080 --> 02:39:59,820
So 100 megawatt data center, you know, we're starting to see that data centers are asking.

1665
02:40:00,000 --> 02:40:27,120
Our run, 247, on generators. There's nothing in this moratorium that says that it's almost like there's an expectation that it would connect to the grid. And that is not what we're seeing in other communities. We're seeing folks try to get that through. And DQ is not stopping them. You guys are the breaks. In terms of our electric bills, then utilities commission has heard testimony from our impartial public staff that we need a one year pause on new data center contracts.

1666
02:40:27,120 --> 02:40:32,540
A hundred megawatts is one 13th of a new Duke energy methane gas power plant.

1667
02:40:32,700 --> 02:40:37,300
That is a real contribution to our high electric bills that we are all paying.

1668
02:40:37,660 --> 02:40:41,600
This is an exemption that would could allow a 100 megawatts facility through is letting

1669
02:40:41,600 --> 02:40:44,800
down all of the folks in Durham facing high bills and power shut-offs.

1670
02:40:44,880 --> 02:40:47,420
Please pass a moratorium without that exemption.

1671
02:40:47,880 --> 02:40:48,760
Thank you.

1672
02:40:56,610 --> 02:40:57,170
Good evening.

1673
02:40:57,330 --> 02:41:02,430
My name is Mustafa Alhamadah and much like everyone in this room, I am a Durham resident.

1674
02:41:02,430 --> 02:41:08,370
You know, who is not a Durham resident, the owners of these tech companies, that own billions and billions of dollars.

1675
02:41:10,290 --> 02:41:14,150
That these products are the only people that will be assisting.

1676
02:41:16,490 --> 02:41:20,690
I want to remind everyone in this room about what's going on in Lake Tahoe right now.

1677
02:41:20,930 --> 02:41:29,090
Lake Tahoe is currently slated to lose their current power company, NV Energy, Nevada Energy by May of next year.

1678
02:41:29,090 --> 02:41:36,110
So if you are not concerned with water usage or emissions or noise pollution, you should be

1679
02:41:36,110 --> 02:41:36,850
concerned with that.

1680
02:41:36,870 --> 02:41:40,510
Because that's something that's going to directly impact your guys' jobs as well as everybody

1681
02:41:40,510 --> 02:41:45,470
else in Durham politics and possibly even state politics as well.

1682
02:41:46,030 --> 02:41:47,150
Thank you guys for letting me speak.

1683
02:41:47,250 --> 02:41:51,710
I advocate for the strongest moratorium that you could possibly release.

1684
02:42:00,630 --> 02:42:01,070
Good evening.

1685
02:42:01,270 --> 02:42:05,190
My name is Tarle Rios and I am giving voice to a letter from Loud and County.

1686
02:42:05,190 --> 02:42:08,250
I came to Northern Virginia for work in 2022.

1687
02:42:08,610 --> 02:42:11,130
I'm a graduate from Appalachian State University

1688
02:42:11,130 --> 02:42:13,530
in an electrical engineer who works in tech.

1689
02:42:13,950 --> 02:42:16,270
I don't have to speculate about what the effects

1690
02:42:16,270 --> 02:42:18,750
of data centers are because my neighborhood is already

1691
02:42:18,750 --> 02:42:21,410
filled with them to get to the bike trail from my house.

1692
02:42:21,490 --> 02:42:23,970
I have to ride past several Amazon data centers

1693
02:42:23,970 --> 02:42:26,270
that total 400,000 square feet.

1694
02:42:26,450 --> 02:42:27,530
This is only the beginning.

1695
02:42:28,090 --> 02:42:30,830
The data centers are towering humming gray boxes

1696
02:42:30,830 --> 02:42:33,210
surrounded on all sides by spike security fences

1697
02:42:33,210 --> 02:42:34,030
with barbed wire.

1698
02:42:34,030 --> 02:42:36,670
And neither the perimeter is lit up with spotlights.

1699
02:42:37,070 --> 02:42:40,890
The newer ones have false windows to make them look more like ordinary office buildings

1700
02:42:40,890 --> 02:42:45,630
to hide the fact that once built, they typically employ less than a dozen people.

1701
02:42:45,990 --> 02:42:49,430
In the winter I can stand on the sidewalk and feel the heat coming off the buildings.

1702
02:42:49,990 --> 02:42:53,530
Every time I ride my rider walk by them, I wonder what I'm breathing in.

1703
02:42:53,670 --> 02:42:56,850
And if I'd be better, it'd be better for my health just to stay inside.

1704
02:42:57,190 --> 02:43:00,230
This is what's coming to German everywhere else big tech can manage.

1705
02:43:00,230 --> 02:43:04,770
whatever Microsoft or Google or Amazon is pedaling to you about economic benefits,

1706
02:43:05,230 --> 02:43:09,930
in technological innovation in cloud computing and AI. This is the actual

1707
02:43:09,930 --> 02:43:13,810
physical future of what they want to build in neighborhoods. Thank you.

1708
02:43:13,830 --> 02:43:14,530
Thank you, Charlotte.

1709
02:43:23,560 --> 02:43:27,740
Now we have Jaina Asms, Lindsey,

1710
02:43:29,840 --> 02:43:37,360
So, Haley, Scott Levittan, then Beth Brutch.

1711
02:43:49,430 --> 02:43:53,470
Hello, my name is Jane Asims. I'm a resident of Durham County, a member of Southern Arizona

1712
02:43:53,470 --> 02:44:00,310
Ground and a former IBM employee. The tech world has a motto of move forward and break it.

1713
02:44:00,590 --> 02:44:05,810
I don't want the tech world to destroy my neighborhood and my community. Reading from IBM's

1714
02:44:05,810 --> 02:44:12,450
website on how IBM defines a hyperscal data center, it says, the facility should contain at least

1715
02:44:12,450 --> 02:44:19,470
5,000 servers and occupy at least 10,000 square feet of physical space, energy draw over 100

1716
02:44:19,470 --> 02:44:25,610
megawatts. From this week and in further, IBM believes it's possible to do a mega scale data

1717
02:44:25,610 --> 02:44:31,110
center on just 10,000 square feet. And we're trying to allow in 100,000 square feet.

1718
02:44:34,470 --> 02:44:35,690
What does that

1719
02:44:35,690 --> 02:44:40,770
Post reported that in Texas, some Republican voters are starting to organize around the

1720
02:44:40,770 --> 02:44:47,530
name, break, break, break, break, to vote for a democratic governor on a single issue.

1721
02:44:48,470 --> 02:44:54,210
The Republicans wholesale welcoming of data centers and detectives pass a strong

1722
02:44:54,210 --> 02:44:58,690
for our tourium with no loopholes and at least 32 months.

1723
02:45:08,750 --> 02:45:18,810
Hi, my name is Lindsay Sevelli. I'm a Durham County resident and as part of my work, I test people's private wells and across multiple counties.

1724
02:45:19,330 --> 02:45:25,230
The worst part of my job is having to call people and tell them that they have any sort of water contaminate and especially PFAS.

1725
02:45:25,630 --> 02:45:36,790
And we know that these data centers emit PFAS and they're contaminating our water. The EPA is currently proposing rollbacks on the very few PFAS protections that they had implemented under the Biden administration.

1726
02:45:36,790 --> 02:45:41,050
and there are no federal regulations for private well-water quality.

1727
02:45:41,330 --> 02:45:44,910
So when private well users deal with, find out that they have contamination,

1728
02:45:45,210 --> 02:45:49,090
there's virtually no support to help them remediate those harms.

1729
02:45:49,450 --> 02:45:54,790
I'm begging you to please pass an exemption proof 32-month moratorium

1730
02:45:54,790 --> 02:45:58,770
to protect our water, to protect our health, and to help heal the earth

1731
02:45:58,770 --> 02:46:03,410
and repair the harms that we have already caused by allowing these massive industries

1732
02:46:03,410 --> 02:46:09,250
to move forward without any restraint. Please, please, please, please pass a full

1733
02:46:09,250 --> 02:46:13,650
proof exemption proof moratorium. Thank you for your time this evening.

1734
02:46:18,940 --> 02:46:22,200
Hello, Commissioners. My name is Scott Levittan. I'm President of Research

1735
02:46:22,200 --> 02:46:26,060
Triangle Foundation. I know my comments won't be popular tonight and I

1736
02:46:26,060 --> 02:46:31,440
appreciate the respect of everyone in the room. RTP is a research and development

1737
02:46:31,440 --> 02:46:37,180
community. It relies on technology infrastructure like enterprise scale data

1738
02:46:37,180 --> 02:46:44,460
is to operate and continue to attract businesses. We've had a 66-year partnership with Durham County

1739
02:46:44,460 --> 02:46:51,280
and both RTP, Durham County and Durham City have benefited greatly from the success

1740
02:46:51,280 --> 02:46:59,700
from our mutual success. On behalf of the 55,000 employees, 400 companies that operate in RTP,

1741
02:47:00,280 --> 02:47:05,160
I ask that the more that the moratorium be passed as written. Thank you for your

1742
02:47:05,160 --> 02:47:08,840
listening to me. Hi. Hi.

1743
02:47:11,250 --> 02:47:14,050
Please. We're not going to do that.

1744
02:47:19,980 --> 02:47:21,180
My name is Bathbrook. I'm a

1745
02:47:21,180 --> 02:47:27,420
Durham County resident for the past 50 years, I guess. I'm getting old.

1746
02:47:29,680 --> 02:47:30,580
It's past some

1747
02:47:30,580 --> 02:47:37,940
moreatorium. No loopholes. I think we've heard enough tonight to know that as much research

1748
02:47:37,940 --> 02:47:42,940
as we've done, there's so much more to do. We don't know how our wastewater is going to

1749
02:47:42,940 --> 02:47:49,020
it cleaned. We just don't know how we're the PFAS out of the system. There's so much that

1750
02:47:49,020 --> 02:47:50,400
we don't have in place.

1751
02:47:52,740 --> 02:47:58,140
I just, the drought, the summer really emphasized to me the importance

1752
02:47:58,140 --> 02:48:04,580
of water. I'm up here past my bedtime as a during public school teacher who cares about

1753
02:48:04,580 --> 02:48:12,560
the young people, who I'm going to be seeing for the next 179 days, and then some, not

1754
02:48:12,560 --> 02:48:19,110
the work counting, but I went with that water during Hurricane Fran, and then I went with

1755
02:48:19,110 --> 02:48:24,730
water, without water a bunch of times, as summer, when our storage storage mains broke.

1756
02:48:25,910 --> 02:48:28,070
So water matters, water's life.

1757
02:48:36,070 --> 02:48:46,690
So now we have, I just, it just says Coco here and we have Rafael Diaz and Samantha Boyd

1758
02:48:48,800 --> 02:48:52,060
and Samantha Boyd and then

1759
02:48:58,750 --> 02:48:59,270
Andrea

1760
02:49:02,080 --> 02:49:05,380
Cascales Cascales.

1761
02:49:07,700 --> 02:49:09,100
Good evening.

1762
02:49:09,920 --> 02:49:12,080
My name is Coco and I'm a proud resident of Germ County.

1763
02:49:12,080 --> 02:49:17,780
My neighbors have done an amazing job of speaking of the environmental impacts that will come from these data centers

1764
02:49:17,780 --> 02:49:23,100
So I'm here to speak from personal experience, but obviously I've affected my friends and family who work in technology.

1765
02:49:24,240 --> 02:49:29,260
I received my MBA from Duke University nine years ago, thankfully I changed careers.

1766
02:49:29,260 --> 02:49:38,940
I'm very happy with my career change, but I hear every day from my coworkers and my classmates by what's happening inside of the companies that are at RTP.

1767
02:49:40,120 --> 02:49:45,980
Many large companies like to use the Trojan Horse of Jobs to bring data centers into communities.

1768
02:49:46,660 --> 02:49:49,460
The reality is, some jobs are created.

1769
02:49:50,120 --> 02:49:51,680
Construction jobs are created temporarily.

1770
02:49:52,960 --> 02:49:55,380
People have to run the data centers, but it's only about a dozen people.

1771
02:49:56,300 --> 02:49:59,960
And then on the other end of things, those who are college educated, who have...

1772
02:50:00,000 --> 02:50:06,320
Last year's degrees, who are working in these companies, are being forced to train AI models to replace them.

1773
02:50:06,540 --> 02:50:12,160
I have had friends who had to lay off all of those who report to them because AI has been used instead.

1774
02:50:12,820 --> 02:50:18,560
It is not okay and it is not safe for jobs and for our environment for our community.

1775
02:50:18,920 --> 02:50:27,640
Please pass a data center moratorium that is at least 12 months long with zero loopholes for the sake of your constituents and this county that you call home.

1776
02:50:27,640 --> 02:50:28,920
Thank you.

1777
02:50:38,790 --> 02:50:39,690
Hello commissioners.

1778
02:50:40,090 --> 02:50:40,690
My name is Rafael.

1779
02:50:41,190 --> 02:50:44,070
I'm a member of the DSA and a resident of Durham County.

1780
02:50:45,030 --> 02:50:48,430
Like many others in the area, I came here because of the abundance of job opportunities

1781
02:50:48,430 --> 02:50:49,590
for tech workers.

1782
02:50:50,770 --> 02:50:54,730
As many of us are aware, the research triangle park has contributed tremendously to the economic

1783
02:50:54,730 --> 02:50:56,290
growth of this city.

1784
02:50:56,570 --> 02:50:59,930
However, we cannot solely attribute this growth to the companies within RTP.

1785
02:51:00,970 --> 02:51:05,650
The real source of this economic power lies with the workers creating surplus value through

1786
02:51:05,650 --> 02:51:11,550
their labor. With that in mind, how could a data center support this growth with only a handful

1787
02:51:11,550 --> 02:51:20,030
of workers? Data centers are largely self-governing, needing only four employees for acre

1788
02:51:20,030 --> 02:51:26,370
of land. I myself have worked on AI and machine learning algorithms. Well, never set explicitly,

1789
02:51:26,870 --> 02:51:31,750
I know that the end goal is to train an AI to replace me. Let's not kid ourselves into thinking

1790
02:51:31,750 --> 02:51:33,650
a data center would be good for workers.

1791
02:51:34,290 --> 02:51:37,650
If even people in tech and beer place, then what does that mean for the thousands of people

1792
02:51:37,650 --> 02:51:38,770
that RTP employees?

1793
02:51:39,450 --> 02:51:42,150
We lose our jobs and have nowhere to go.

1794
02:51:43,130 --> 02:51:43,790
Thank you.

1795
02:51:54,360 --> 02:51:54,660
Good evening.

1796
02:51:55,140 --> 02:51:56,880
This is my name is Samantha Boyd.

1797
02:51:57,280 --> 02:52:01,860
I'm just going to tip the experience I took my granddaughter out this weekend.

1798
02:52:02,040 --> 02:52:03,580
We went right and around.

1799
02:52:04,540 --> 02:52:08,000
It was all the construction to say, trees are going to be disappeared.

1800
02:52:08,500 --> 02:52:09,620
We're going to see no trees.

1801
02:52:09,620 --> 02:52:12,900
This is what my granddaughter has to look for to the future.

1802
02:52:13,400 --> 02:52:14,760
Do I have to add water to

1803
02:52:16,460 --> 02:52:19,620
that we ain't going to have no clean water for them?

1804
02:52:25,270 --> 02:52:29,450
You're a clear answer about that being

1805
02:52:29,810 --> 02:52:31,870
that being ready or acting.

1806
02:52:32,230 --> 02:52:33,310
There wasn't a clear answer.

1807
02:52:37,340 --> 02:52:39,640
We hate to have it built, and then they're not the answers.

1808
02:52:40,080 --> 02:52:41,780
Oh yeah, it's radioactive.

1809
02:52:43,200 --> 02:52:44,560
How are we going to clean it up?

1810
02:52:45,520 --> 02:52:46,480
Please vote no.

1811
02:52:55,790 --> 02:53:01,010
My name is Andrea Casales and I want to thank to the officials that are actually looking at the speakers.

1812
02:53:02,010 --> 02:53:10,830
I want to remind everyone that local officials work for us and we have the right to ask for more, including doing more than the city and looking at us what we speak.

1813
02:53:11,630 --> 02:53:15,290
And what you can do is number one, not say that upstairs is a data center.

1814
02:53:15,970 --> 02:53:18,970
And number two, amend the proposed moratorium with no loopholes.

1815
02:53:19,570 --> 02:53:24,630
Right now you have the opportunity to set guardrails by delivering a strong and expansive moratorium.

1816
02:53:24,630 --> 02:53:30,210
this is not allowed for loopholes. And if my doctor in nursing research has afforded me anything,

1817
02:53:30,610 --> 02:53:35,130
it is that evidence-based research that is not so funded by billion in trillion dollar

1818
02:53:35,130 --> 02:53:40,610
big-ten companies is needed so that we aren't paying a bigger price down the line, not just environmentally,

1819
02:53:40,970 --> 02:53:48,070
financially, but in lives. And that takes time. The people of Durham cannot show it or any more of that

1820
02:53:48,070 --> 02:53:54,170
cost. My patients cannot show it or any more of that cost. I cannot show it or any more of that cost.

1821
02:53:54,630 --> 02:53:58,750
They cannot privatize the profits while socializing the cost.

1822
02:53:59,010 --> 02:54:03,330
I mean, we are the city of medicine and the second smart city in the US.

1823
02:54:03,950 --> 02:54:07,710
So we're being told that if we don't accept this, that we are driving way being employers,

1824
02:54:08,010 --> 02:54:11,930
revenue, progress, or future, when reality, the only thing we may be driving away,

1825
02:54:12,170 --> 02:54:13,850
is a parasitic relationship.

1826
02:54:14,030 --> 02:54:14,690
Thank you very much.

1827
02:54:24,580 --> 02:54:26,680
Okay, we have Pablo Friedman.

1828
02:54:27,420 --> 02:54:37,170
We have Isaac Hessell Robinson, Annie Doka, Doran,

1829
02:54:39,740 --> 02:54:41,100
a writer,

1830
02:54:43,460 --> 02:54:43,760
sevens.

1831
02:54:52,920 --> 02:54:55,140
All right, so a couple of things.

1832
02:54:55,480 --> 02:54:57,940
I thought what came out of city council was a compromise.

1833
02:54:58,180 --> 02:54:59,840
Some of us wanted a two year moratorium.

1834
02:55:00,000 --> 02:55:05,380
You know, Surrey County, a much more maga county, has a two year moratorium, and one year was the compromise.

1835
02:55:06,520 --> 02:55:13,900
And additionally, there was some language put into sort of benefit, some sort of corporate interest here in Durham, and some of us weren't aligned with that.

1836
02:55:14,200 --> 02:55:21,360
So, long story short is what the city council pass was actually a compromise. And so to come here tonight to see these exemptions,

1837
02:55:21,420 --> 02:55:27,360
but instead of a little bit of a slap in the face, those of us already compromised with the city council when they had their vote.

1838
02:55:27,360 --> 02:55:29,220
Now, you all can do what you want tonight.

1839
02:55:30,240 --> 02:55:31,940
Mr. Levitts, and thank you for coming up tonight

1840
02:55:31,940 --> 02:55:34,040
in the strongest traditions of our democracy.

1841
02:55:34,260 --> 02:55:36,720
I find your comments a little bit disrespectful

1842
02:55:36,720 --> 02:55:38,100
to the residents of Durham.

1843
02:55:38,720 --> 02:55:41,720
The state legislature gives you sales tax exemptions.

1844
02:55:42,000 --> 02:55:44,800
Duke Energy is burning the residential rate

1845
02:55:44,800 --> 02:55:47,160
payer with a large rate increase

1846
02:55:47,160 --> 02:55:49,200
to fund data centers in this state.

1847
02:55:49,900 --> 02:55:52,940
Additionally, you all have special taxing privileges

1848
02:55:52,940 --> 02:55:53,880
from the state.

1849
02:55:54,200 --> 02:55:56,440
So for you to come up here tonight and say that you want this

1850
02:55:56,440 --> 02:55:59,300
we don't, all right, anything for the rank and file people

1851
02:55:59,300 --> 02:56:02,320
of Durham do better, do better, do better, do better, do better.

1852
02:56:02,680 --> 02:56:03,500
Thank you.

1853
02:56:12,750 --> 02:56:14,010
Good evening, my name is Isaac.

1854
02:56:14,030 --> 02:56:16,590
I'm a Durham County voter and tech worker.

1855
02:56:17,030 --> 02:56:18,890
And I would like to just remind you all,

1856
02:56:18,970 --> 02:56:21,170
what these AI data centers are being used for.

1857
02:56:21,790 --> 02:56:23,710
There are being used to create convincing scans

1858
02:56:23,710 --> 02:56:25,470
that can mimic anyone's voice.

1859
02:56:26,310 --> 02:56:28,810
There are being used to create deep fake porn,

1860
02:56:28,890 --> 02:56:31,530
of real people that is almost indistinguishable

1861
02:56:31,530 --> 02:56:34,610
from real photos, including vast amounts

1862
02:56:34,610 --> 02:56:40,090
child pornography, and let me remind you, Minnesota recently passed a ban on AI generated

1863
02:56:40,090 --> 02:56:47,050
child porn, and Elon Musk's Twitter, formerly Twitter, which runs the Grok AI, believed

1864
02:56:47,050 --> 02:56:51,750
it was a large enough part of their business model, this child pornography, to sue to block

1865
02:56:51,750 --> 02:56:54,330
a ban on, again, AI generated child pornography.

1866
02:56:56,230 --> 02:57:01,930
Block cameras that are seemingly overwhelmingly being used by cops to stalk their exes or

1867
02:57:01,930 --> 02:57:03,350
their potential partners.

1868
02:57:04,070 --> 02:57:10,370
They are being used to eliminate jobs to boost tech CEOs margins at a time when tech CEOs are

1869
02:57:10,370 --> 02:57:13,410
all the some of the richest people in the history of our planet.

1870
02:57:14,150 --> 02:57:18,670
They are not being used to create economic development because almost every single AI,

1871
02:57:19,290 --> 02:57:20,990
95% of AI startups are failing.

1872
02:57:21,510 --> 02:57:27,110
There is less revenue in the entire market and then one company needs is seen as profits.

1873
02:57:27,630 --> 02:57:28,890
AI is an anti-human grift.

1874
02:57:29,290 --> 02:57:30,410
We should not suffer permanent.

1875
02:57:30,610 --> 02:57:31,170
Thank you.

1876
02:57:31,170 --> 02:57:32,050
Thank you, Mr. Robinson.

1877
02:57:32,050 --> 02:57:33,750
And it's

1878
02:57:41,590 --> 02:57:44,050
a little, it looks like a little person in the area.

1879
02:57:44,750 --> 02:57:47,970
Hi, my name is Annie Doran and I want to pose a few questions to this council.

1880
02:57:48,530 --> 02:57:52,870
How is the county going to guarantee more forever chemicals won't make their way from data

1881
02:57:52,870 --> 02:57:55,310
centers into our drinking water surrounding communities?

1882
02:57:55,930 --> 02:58:00,050
How can the county set an enforceable standard on how much water these data centers will

1883
02:58:00,050 --> 02:58:00,970
be able to use?

1884
02:58:01,370 --> 02:58:05,130
If the county intends to support the broader goal of helping the community of Durham reach

1885
02:58:05,130 --> 02:58:09,870
net zero emissions by 2050 at the latest, how can we reach those goals if we're

1886
02:58:09,870 --> 02:58:12,490
allowing new data centers with no renewable requirements.

1887
02:58:13,530 --> 02:58:17,170
How can the county keep the development of these data centers

1888
02:58:17,170 --> 02:58:20,190
from affecting individuals, electric, and water bills?

1889
02:58:20,750 --> 02:58:23,070
How many will be allowed to be built?

1890
02:58:23,590 --> 02:58:27,170
If the answer to any of these questions is I don't know,

1891
02:58:27,510 --> 02:58:29,110
then that is why Durham County is a strong

1892
02:58:29,110 --> 02:58:31,250
moratorium without exceptions for new data centers.

1893
02:58:31,470 --> 02:58:31,970
Thank you.

1894
02:58:31,970 --> 02:58:33,310
Okay,

1895
02:58:39,640 --> 02:58:44,520
we have writer, uh, summons, writer,

1896
02:58:48,810 --> 02:58:54,090
is Dan, I think something with an R, Dan and

1897
02:58:59,560 --> 02:59:07,700
Red, anyone named Dan, okay, all right, Kimberly Lam,

1898
02:59:10,230 --> 02:59:11,670
we have Jen Alexander,

1899
02:59:20,170 --> 02:59:20,710
Ramsey,

1900
02:59:21,230 --> 02:59:21,910
Richie,

1901
02:59:24,390 --> 02:59:26,890
I'm the Richie, I'm Patrick Alexander.

1902
02:59:26,890 --> 02:59:27,930
Hello,

1903
02:59:31,630 --> 02:59:39,130
my name is Kimberly Lam, I am a member of the American Association of University Professors at Duke University.

1904
02:59:39,810 --> 02:59:51,350
I just want to stress how much educators are against AI from what I heard at the meeting on August 3rd here.

1905
02:59:51,730 --> 02:59:55,790
It's seemed as though there's a sentiment that the technology is inevitable.

1906
02:59:56,690 --> 02:59:58,390
I really don't think it is.

1907
02:59:58,390 --> 02:59:59,970
Um, A.I.S.

1908
03:00:00,000 --> 03:00:02,280
Making education harder.

1909
03:00:05,960 --> 03:00:11,960
It's an impediment to education and it's goals. I just don't think there's

1910
03:00:11,960 --> 03:00:21,100
any other way around it by any means. The other point I want to make is, and many people have

1911
03:00:21,100 --> 03:00:27,780
spoken about this with more specificity than I can bring, but I really want to emphasize the

1912
03:00:28,700 --> 03:00:38,680
environmental risks of these data centers, there was a lot of discussion last time about

1913
03:00:38,680 --> 03:00:45,260
the importance of business. We don't have business if we don't have a planet. My mother

1914
03:00:45,260 --> 03:00:52,680
was just my mother was recently diagnosed with Parkinson's, which is linked to forever chemicals.

1915
03:00:52,680 --> 03:01:00,240
I would really like to know what the relationship between forever chemicals and a disease-like

1916
03:01:00,240 --> 03:01:01,340
Parkinson's is.

1917
03:01:01,580 --> 03:01:01,960
Thank you.

1918
03:01:01,960 --> 03:01:03,120
Thank you.

1919
03:01:11,310 --> 03:01:11,710
Hello.

1920
03:01:11,830 --> 03:01:12,950
My name is Jan Alexander.

1921
03:01:13,530 --> 03:01:18,430
I'm in support of a complete moratorium on new and expanding data centers.

1922
03:01:18,970 --> 03:01:23,690
I don't believe we should be granting exemptions when the proposed moratorium is only nine months.

1923
03:01:24,390 --> 03:01:29,850
And when we have no regulations even for small data centers to follow, all we can be reasonably

1924
03:01:29,850 --> 03:01:34,530
sure that an enterprise data center will have less of an impact than a hyperscale data center,

1925
03:01:34,750 --> 03:01:40,410
they still have no data center specific regulations or requirements that apply to them,

1926
03:01:41,010 --> 03:01:44,650
and it's unacceptable to allow expansions and new builds in the scenario.

1927
03:01:46,250 --> 03:01:51,150
I'm also concerned that with a nine-month moratorium, you're not leaving yourself enough time

1928
03:01:51,150 --> 03:01:58,010
to adequately research the policy in regulations of other areas, nor the impact existing data centers

1929
03:01:58,010 --> 03:02:02,070
have had and how it's differed from the promises made by the companies.

1930
03:02:02,810 --> 03:02:07,670
It sounds like the staff have already done a lot of research, so you may already be well

1931
03:02:07,670 --> 03:02:14,190
in your way, but I ask that the board add milestones for the regulation development and if

1932
03:02:14,190 --> 03:02:17,690
the milestones aren't being met, that the moratorium be automatically extended.

1933
03:02:18,390 --> 03:02:18,950
Thank you.

1934
03:02:26,660 --> 03:02:27,420
Good evening, Charlie.

1935
03:02:27,580 --> 03:02:32,300
Vice Chair alum, members of Commission, the public, thank you all for being here.

1936
03:02:32,300 --> 03:02:39,960
My name is Ramsey Richie. I'm a Durham resident. I love this town. I also lead public policy and strategic initiatives for the Greater Durham Chamber of Commerce.

1937
03:02:40,220 --> 03:02:48,360
The J.P. supports a moratorium on hyperscale data centers in Durham County, because without proper regulation, there an inefficient use of valuable land and resources.

1938
03:02:48,620 --> 03:02:52,740
And we applaud the county's work to hold them to high environmental and community impact standards.

1939
03:02:53,620 --> 03:03:00,020
We also support modest exceptions to that moratorium. Unlike neighboring counties that have passed sweeping bans and all data center activity,

1940
03:03:00,020 --> 03:03:06,680
Durham is home to some of the most technologically advanced companies in the country, and those companies are the beating heart of the state's economy.

1941
03:03:07,340 --> 03:03:10,780
Data centers have played an important role in keeping that heart beating for over 40 years.

1942
03:03:11,300 --> 03:03:18,020
They're not a new technology. We're right to guard against the negative impacts of massive data centers in their most extreme forms. We do not want to be loud and county.

1943
03:03:19,560 --> 03:03:27,920
But that doesn't mean that every data center presents the same risk. We can draw a line between the projects that we need to scrutinize most closely, and those that can meet reasonable interim standards.

1944
03:03:28,660 --> 03:03:33,660
The exceptions built in this moreatorium draw that one conservatively by restricting data centers.

1945
03:03:33,660 --> 03:03:35,580
I think that was a minute.

1946
03:03:35,800 --> 03:03:35,920
Thank you.

1947
03:03:36,280 --> 03:03:36,360
Yes.

1948
03:03:36,420 --> 03:03:37,360
That was a minute.

1949
03:03:37,880 --> 03:03:38,600
Thank you, Mr. Robert.

1950
03:03:46,100 --> 03:03:46,860
Good evening, everyone.

1951
03:03:47,020 --> 03:03:49,080
Thank you for having us.

1952
03:03:49,660 --> 03:03:50,840
My name is Patrick Alexander.

1953
03:03:52,160 --> 03:03:55,940
And I retired from the military from the Army after almost 30 years of service.

1954
03:03:56,820 --> 03:04:02,740
And in that time, I recognized that all I wanted after we were done, my wife,

1955
03:04:02,740 --> 03:04:10,540
My children and our dogs and cats are a little slice of peace and quiet. We found it built it now. We're living it and now we have to deal with this

1956
03:04:11,040 --> 03:04:15,960
But it's not just our peace and quiet. Everybody's peace and quiet here. Okay, we can see the stars at night

1957
03:04:15,960 --> 03:04:22,600
We've got the wild animals. We love it. I saw a lot a lot of bad things in 30 years

1958
03:04:23,640 --> 03:04:25,380
But I live to tell about it

1959
03:04:26,240 --> 03:04:31,400
And I live because I can see and identify the BS everybody here can see and identify it

1960
03:04:32,340 --> 03:04:42,160
we don't need any of this, okay? So no exceptions, no loopholes, just pass the moratorium

1961
03:04:42,160 --> 03:04:46,940
please so that we can all enjoy this wonderful place. Thank you.

1962
03:04:56,980 --> 03:04:59,340
Okay, and so that brings us to the end of our

1963
03:04:59,340 --> 03:04:59,740
the public.

1964
03:05:00,000 --> 03:05:03,600
The comment period of the public meeting.

1965
03:05:06,080 --> 03:05:10,540
So I will close the public meeting and that will have comments.

1966
03:05:13,190 --> 03:05:22,690
Okay. Okay. Well, let's take a short recess by or break and then we'll come back and do the commissioner comments.

1967
03:05:24,510 --> 03:05:30,730
Yeah, is that okay with you all? Okay. We'll take a very short recess. Let's do five minutes. We'll be back at 10.15.

1968
03:13:46,380 --> 03:13:48,900
Let's start finding our seats, please.

1969
03:13:51,600 --> 03:13:53,460
Can we start finding our seats, please?

1970
03:14:02,060 --> 03:14:04,360
Can we start finding our seats, please?

1971
03:14:12,700 --> 03:14:13,540
We're coming back.

1972
03:14:20,360 --> 03:14:23,120
Have your attention, please? We're coming back.

1973
03:14:30,070 --> 03:14:34,750
Thank you. It is 1015 and we will resume.

1974
03:14:38,820 --> 03:14:39,620
We're on.

1975
03:14:40,520 --> 03:14:45,140
Yeah, okay. Okay, we're back. Thank you all for your patience.

1976
03:14:45,140 --> 03:14:54,000
I was a long public comment period, but it's important that we got through them all.

1977
03:14:55,620 --> 03:14:59,980
So we're at the point where the public...

1978
03:15:00,000 --> 03:15:24,020
Meeting has been closed. I want to, there was a lot of public comment, there was a lot of things said. And so I want to ask the board, are there any clarifying questions based on what we heard in public comment that we'd like the staff to answer. So I'll open up a period before we go under statements. Just for any clarifying questions.

1979
03:15:24,020 --> 03:15:30,100
And let's please keep it the clarifying questions and then we have time for State Ms.

1980
03:15:30,300 --> 03:15:30,460
Later.

1981
03:15:31,800 --> 03:15:38,180
So DCM Jones, it may be questions for you here.

1982
03:15:38,740 --> 03:15:41,100
We just just clarifying questions from what we were here, okay?

1983
03:15:41,460 --> 03:15:42,360
All right, Commissioner Burton.

1984
03:15:43,020 --> 03:15:43,960
Thank you, Chair Lee.

1985
03:15:44,920 --> 03:15:52,720
I wrote this question down earlier and we know that right now in Durham County,

1986
03:15:52,720 --> 03:15:58,240
there are about 14 data centers, enterprise data centers, right?

1987
03:15:59,060 --> 03:16:05,880
And I think the question I had was, do we know about their energy usage,

1988
03:16:05,960 --> 03:16:13,020
how much water they use, and then also with two of those enterprise data centers

1989
03:16:13,020 --> 03:16:17,260
that I'm clearly saying enterprise because they're not AI data centers.

1990
03:16:17,260 --> 03:16:22,200
Two of them are over 400,000 square feet.

1991
03:16:22,460 --> 03:16:24,480
Do we know what they're used for?

1992
03:16:24,700 --> 03:16:26,660
So that was the question I had.

1993
03:16:30,420 --> 03:16:37,020
So one of those 400,000 square foot ones is to my understanding just a commercial data center.

1994
03:16:37,200 --> 03:16:38,800
It's not associated with the particular use.

1995
03:16:39,020 --> 03:16:40,980
I don't have information on the other ones,

1996
03:16:41,200 --> 03:16:42,400
so I can't answer about that one.

1997
03:16:43,280 --> 03:16:44,820
In terms of water consumption,

1998
03:16:45,140 --> 03:16:48,720
we have reached out to the water management department to try and get

1999
03:16:48,720 --> 03:16:54,200
to see if they have data they can share with us about the water usage of these facilities and we

2000
03:16:54,200 --> 03:17:02,440
have not received that data yet. And one more question Sarah, I believe you said I know your team is

2001
03:17:02,440 --> 03:17:10,580
doing research right now with regards to the ordinance that we're going to approve later on. You said

2002
03:17:10,580 --> 03:17:19,080
how soon will you be completed with it or to present it to both bodies? We are hoping to be complete with

2003
03:17:19,080 --> 03:17:22,560
a research and have a preliminary draft prepared by December.

2004
03:17:24,100 --> 03:17:25,560
Thank you so much.

2005
03:17:29,780 --> 03:17:32,320
Vice Chair, Alam Dejani, any clarifying questions?

2006
03:17:33,340 --> 03:17:34,060
Yes, my questions.

2007
03:17:36,680 --> 03:17:37,760
Commissioner Jacobs.

2008
03:17:40,370 --> 03:17:41,570
Thank you.

2009
03:17:43,150 --> 03:17:48,310
Yeah, I wanted to try to, I have a few questions and I wanted to try to follow up on some

2010
03:17:48,310 --> 03:17:52,110
of the concerns that we heard from residents.

2011
03:17:53,350 --> 03:18:05,570
So we're following up on what Commissioner Burton said because we received a list of about 20 existing data centers and RTP and they range

2012
03:18:05,570 --> 03:18:18,810
And size from 450,000 square feet to the smallest being, I think it was 10,000 square feet.

2013
03:18:18,890 --> 03:18:30,630
Some of them are basically 40 years old, 1987, all the way up to, I think the most recent was 2013.

2014
03:18:34,480 --> 03:18:50,320
I was, again, I was just wondering how much you know about them or me make me, I might need to refer to Mr. Levittan, who might know more, but again, what are these all?

2015
03:18:50,740 --> 03:18:55,900
What kind of data centers would you describe them as in terms of what their function is?

2016
03:18:55,900 --> 03:18:56,360
So

2017
03:18:58,690 --> 03:19:05,810
I have to be real honest and say that we don't know when someone submits, for instance, a site plan approval for a data center

2018
03:19:05,810 --> 03:19:14,350
They do not have to tell us what the intended usage of that data center is a lot of these sites that have been

2019
03:19:16,090 --> 03:19:16,610
previously

2020
03:19:18,770 --> 03:19:24,390
Approved or not even came did not can even come in as data centers because that's not a use category in the ordinance

2021
03:19:24,390 --> 03:19:29,330
So they may have been processed as industrial light uses as flex office flex warehouse.

2022
03:19:30,370 --> 03:19:41,910
So we I think on file when I looked we had probably half a dozen max site plants that have come through as data centers listed as the use.

2023
03:19:42,390 --> 03:19:47,710
So it is very hard for a staff to determine what what the data centers are being used for.

2024
03:19:47,750 --> 03:19:51,970
Some of them we don't even even have records that they had been turned into data centers.

2025
03:19:51,970 --> 03:19:53,090
Okay,

2026
03:19:57,070 --> 03:19:59,970
and in terms of how...

2027
03:20:00,000 --> 03:20:24,980
What the process is for currently for data centers, you know, a site plan or permit. Now that we have RTP 3.0 zoning, which was recently approved, it's a new zoning for RTP that has different stricter requirements than we have in our current zoning ordinance for different things.

2028
03:20:24,980 --> 03:20:35,600
I'm wondering what would the process be like at this point would they first have to go through the RTP 3.0 zoning or how does that work?

2029
03:20:35,720 --> 03:20:43,760
And again, maybe I don't know if Mr. Levantan has to answer that, but just wondering since it just recently was approved.

2030
03:20:44,500 --> 03:20:50,020
Sure, and I'll defer to Mr. Levantan if he would like to talk about their process what may or may not happen.

2031
03:20:50,020 --> 03:20:56,960
before or after it comes through the planning approval process, but a site plan is required to

2032
03:20:56,960 --> 03:21:01,620
depict what the development is going to be and demonstrate that it meets all ordinance requirements.

2033
03:21:02,220 --> 03:21:07,000
At this point, again, because we have no specific classification that is data centers as a use,

2034
03:21:07,240 --> 03:21:12,820
they're just classified as a general industrial light use and there are a few standards related to that use.

2035
03:21:14,080 --> 03:21:19,860
Are you able to answer that? How the process is currently going to work or

2036
03:21:32,120 --> 03:21:34,360
I just asked.

2037
03:21:35,600 --> 03:21:38,720
Please, please, please, please.

2038
03:21:39,900 --> 03:21:39,900
Listen,

2039
03:21:43,180 --> 03:21:43,180
please.

2040
03:21:45,510 --> 03:21:51,870
I'm asking an informational question about how the new zoning ordinance leads.

2041
03:21:53,130 --> 03:21:53,750
Sorry,

2042
03:22:03,300 --> 03:22:03,640
I'm not a celebrity.

2043
03:22:13,450 --> 03:22:17,150
So I totally understand your objections.

2044
03:22:18,750 --> 03:22:20,570
But I ask you don't interrupt the meeting.

2045
03:22:20,570 --> 03:22:26,930
All right, just I was just saying let me handle it.

2046
03:22:26,930 --> 03:22:29,150
I don't need to yell an out into meetings.

2047
03:22:29,590 --> 03:22:32,310
We're not going to do that in here, okay?

2048
03:22:35,210 --> 03:22:36,270
Thank you.

2049
03:22:37,910 --> 03:22:50,270
So, do we, do we, do we, do we know in terms of the information that we did because one of my

2050
03:22:50,270 --> 03:22:57,990
all the questions from our last meeting was just to try to understand what the impact will

2051
03:22:57,990 --> 03:23:06,510
be to RTP because basically with the cities more touring that there are only three areas

2052
03:23:06,510 --> 03:23:14,170
of the county that pertain to Durham County. So we have the unincorporated areas which is mostly

2053
03:23:14,170 --> 03:23:18,990
Northern Durham and then we have RTP and Trayburn, those are our only jurisdictions.

2054
03:23:20,570 --> 03:23:23,870
Everything else in Durham is covered by the city of Durham.

2055
03:23:25,290 --> 03:23:32,830
So I just want to clarify, and you could confirm this, Sarah, that because I heard a lot

2056
03:23:32,830 --> 03:23:40,150
of concerns from people in Northern Durham, we had a farmer speak and we had some residents

2057
03:23:40,150 --> 03:23:48,110
speak from Northern Durham. And I want to personally say I am against a AI data centers,

2058
03:23:48,330 --> 03:23:54,590
hyperscale data centers, but also the importance of protecting our watershed, which is in Northern

2059
03:23:54,590 --> 03:24:03,530
Durham, our farmland, and also the rural residential development that we do have there. But could

2060
03:24:03,530 --> 03:24:13,030
You just confirm Sarah that with the current city, more touring, because any data center would

2061
03:24:13,030 --> 03:24:20,030
need to be annexed into the city of Durham, would require water and sewer from the city

2062
03:24:20,030 --> 03:24:27,130
that we basically, at this point, for all intents and purpose, the unappropriated areas of the

2063
03:24:27,130 --> 03:24:28,290
county are protected.

2064
03:24:28,490 --> 03:24:29,670
Can you just confirm that?

2065
03:24:29,670 --> 03:24:30,290
That is correct.

2066
03:24:31,050 --> 03:24:31,210
Okay.

2067
03:24:31,210 --> 03:24:33,270
I just think it's really important for people.

2068
03:24:34,270 --> 03:24:43,090
I hear the fear about a lot of issues related to AI data centers and hyperscale data centers

2069
03:24:43,090 --> 03:24:52,310
and I share that and I just want to just so people can feel rest assured that that is protected

2070
03:24:52,310 --> 03:24:56,430
the unincorporated parts of the county are protected.

2071
03:24:57,830 --> 03:24:59,970
We're not going to have egg.

2072
03:25:00,000 --> 03:25:09,530
Aye, aye, nay, dissenters in the rural areas of the county. I just think it's important for people to know that.

2073
03:25:10,850 --> 03:25:16,430
So that leaves us with draper and an RTP. So I'm going to have some follow-up questions about that.

2074
03:25:16,910 --> 03:25:24,070
We're related to draper and have we heard about any any day dissenters in draper?

2075
03:25:27,960 --> 03:25:36,400
Okay, and that's where we have a lot of our big manufacturing facilities like Corning and AW North Carolina

2076
03:25:37,880 --> 03:25:42,700
Merck, so that's where we have a lot of big manufacturing facilities.

2077
03:25:44,460 --> 03:25:55,840
So we later to RTP, could you tell us about what you heard from RTP in terms of why

2078
03:25:55,840 --> 03:26:00,600
And in our stakeholders, we got a lot of emails and letters and things.

2079
03:26:01,000 --> 03:26:11,720
But could you go over what staff heard related to the reason for being allowing these enterprise

2080
03:26:11,720 --> 03:26:20,860
and edge data centers in terms of the functioning of the current functioning of RTP?

2081
03:26:22,000 --> 03:26:24,900
Why where that recommendation came from?

2082
03:26:24,900 --> 03:26:31,620
Yeah, I think RTF has explained that they have concerns about losing a competitive advantage

2083
03:26:31,620 --> 03:26:39,160
that the research triangle park has been working on for 60 plus years if they were to

2084
03:26:39,160 --> 03:26:44,880
lose out on this opportunity in the near term and that would be that has been their argument

2085
03:26:44,880 --> 03:26:52,620
once this issue came to the forefront. Okay, thank you. And then Sarah related to what,

2086
03:26:52,620 --> 03:26:59,380
because you know, again, heard a lot of different concerns about things related to data centers,

2087
03:26:59,740 --> 03:27:04,420
related to the water, energy usage, noise,

2088
03:27:06,920 --> 03:27:10,280
in terms of what we can do in North Carolina.

2089
03:27:10,440 --> 03:27:11,640
Can you talk about that?

2090
03:27:11,980 --> 03:27:17,800
Because in the session that we were in with UNC school government, they said, you know,

2091
03:27:17,800 --> 03:27:24,480
There are normal types of things that we can do in North Carolina, things like setbacks,

2092
03:27:24,960 --> 03:27:31,000
the size of buildings, the scale, screening, we can look at light, we can look at noise,

2093
03:27:31,720 --> 03:27:35,480
we can't look at electricity because we don't control that.

2094
03:27:36,980 --> 03:27:43,560
What about things like, I know this includes the closed loop system and no generators,

2095
03:27:45,660 --> 03:27:46,120
what

2096
03:27:46,120 --> 03:27:50,560
kind of things realistically, are we going to be able to address?

2097
03:27:52,140 --> 03:27:57,660
So I will say that on the city side, because the city controls its municipal water system,

2098
03:27:57,700 --> 03:28:04,160
the city can impose additional restrictions related to water system usage and specifications

2099
03:28:04,160 --> 03:28:05,720
related to that.

2100
03:28:06,600 --> 03:28:12,420
And as you mentioned, because facilities would have to be annexed into the city to get access to

2101
03:28:12,420 --> 03:28:17,660
water right you can't have a certainly not a hyperscale center on well and

2102
03:28:17,660 --> 03:28:22,880
septic right you need municipal water. The city would be able to enact changes

2103
03:28:22,880 --> 03:28:26,900
to their city code to regulate that further. So that's one of the things that's

2104
03:28:26,900 --> 03:28:29,400
being explored. Okay.

2105
03:28:31,900 --> 03:28:35,400
Anything else that comes to mind that beyond the normal kind

2106
03:28:35,400 --> 03:28:41,600
of land use zoning that we normally are able to do? Yeah we can also one of the

2107
03:28:41,600 --> 03:28:57,880
things that's kind of land use adjacent that we often deal with is noise, although that is typically housed in both county code and city code, but we can put additional provisions in place to further address the elements that generate additional noise.

2108
03:28:57,880 --> 03:28:58,440
Okay,

2109
03:29:00,580 --> 03:29:17,120
and do we currently have technology to, we move another, a lot of concerns about what is in the water, even with a closed loop system, do we have the technology that addresses that?

2110
03:29:17,420 --> 03:29:28,540
My understanding and we are still doing research with particularly what our management is that that is not something that can be easily attributed to specific users

2111
03:29:28,540 --> 03:29:39,040
Because that would require a point testing at the discharge point of a site and we don't have the authority to require that.

2112
03:29:39,800 --> 03:29:43,460
Okay, so that's not something that we will be able to address.

2113
03:29:44,200 --> 03:29:46,720
Okay, and then related to electricity.

2114
03:29:47,680 --> 03:29:53,720
It may be more or least you could talk about where the electricity comes from and RTP, I mean even

2115
03:29:53,720 --> 03:29:55,220
that we can't.

2116
03:29:55,520 --> 03:29:59,960
The utilities commission controls that, I know they're concerned.

2117
03:30:00,000 --> 03:30:10,340
We heard loud and county things like that, but could you talk about where the power is in within our T.P.?

2118
03:30:10,340 --> 03:30:19,920
I think it's primarily provided by Duke Energy, but they would fall under the same regulations that Duke has to

2119
03:30:19,920 --> 03:30:23,220
that Duke has in place for the rest of the state.

2120
03:30:25,520 --> 03:30:28,320
That's something that we would obviously have to

2121
03:30:28,320 --> 03:30:34,120
did you to research and look for opportunities in which we might be able to investigate whether

2122
03:30:34,120 --> 03:30:36,320
or not that's something that we can require.

2123
03:30:36,900 --> 03:30:42,340
Once again, as Sarah mentioned, right now, there's not a lot that we can require per state

2124
03:30:42,340 --> 03:30:42,820
law.

2125
03:30:43,280 --> 03:30:50,060
When it comes to the oversight and regulation of these data centers, and maybe over the course

2126
03:30:50,060 --> 03:30:52,940
the next three, six months or so, things will change.

2127
03:30:53,020 --> 03:30:57,320
But we'll have to work within the laws that are currently in place in the state of North

2128
03:30:58,760 --> 03:31:05,680
So I guess the question about things like supplementing with renewable energy or anything.

2129
03:31:06,620 --> 03:31:07,100
Is that?

2130
03:31:07,140 --> 03:31:11,600
I mean those are the types of things that we would investigate as part of research that our folks are doing.

2131
03:31:12,040 --> 03:31:16,400
And from a legal standpoint whether or not that's something that we can put into place as part of a larger ordinance.

2132
03:31:17,960 --> 03:31:26,660
I mean it's my understanding that we actually have Duke Energy's already built for substations in RTP actually to serve.

2133
03:31:26,660 --> 03:31:32,180
research and development there, so we would, you know, just

2134
03:31:32,180 --> 03:31:36,220
for folks to know that the energy source is there already.

2135
03:31:36,240 --> 03:31:41,420
Another was concerned about situations like Latin County,

2136
03:31:41,640 --> 03:31:44,520
of happy to create new sources.

2137
03:31:46,340 --> 03:31:49,820
So one of the things to remember about Latin County is they have

2138
03:31:49,820 --> 03:31:53,020
over 250 data centers in Latin County.

2139
03:31:53,020 --> 03:31:56,860
I believe the average data centers about 200,000 square feet.

2140
03:31:57,300 --> 03:31:59,940
If you took all of the square footage and divided that.

2141
03:32:03,520 --> 03:32:04,840
OK, thank you.

2142
03:32:06,480 --> 03:32:07,680
What were those your questions?

2143
03:32:08,400 --> 03:32:10,300
Was that it?

2144
03:32:10,380 --> 03:32:10,500
OK.

2145
03:32:11,320 --> 03:32:12,940
Any other questions?

2146
03:32:14,220 --> 03:32:14,520
Question?

2147
03:32:15,160 --> 03:32:15,800
Thank you.

2148
03:32:16,300 --> 03:32:17,200
And I said enough questions.

2149
03:32:17,400 --> 03:32:19,700
But one came up with Commissioner Jacob's comments.

2150
03:32:19,920 --> 03:32:25,400
When she was asking about, if we know what type of data centers

2151
03:32:25,400 --> 03:32:27,780
exist, like what their uses are.

2152
03:32:28,540 --> 03:32:34,500
You mentioned that since we don't have the current use case, we don't know what, which even

2153
03:32:34,500 --> 03:32:39,560
of these facilities have become data centers because they didn't apply for it.

2154
03:32:40,080 --> 03:32:46,040
Is there anything in this moratorium that protects from those instances going forward during

2155
03:32:46,040 --> 03:32:55,240
this nine-month period that somebody could apply for permit for a warehouse or another

2156
03:32:55,240 --> 03:33:00,140
industrial usage, and then two or three months down the line. After it's already built,

2157
03:33:00,200 --> 03:33:05,380
they don't need to come back to us if we don't have the use cases changed or defined.

2158
03:33:06,200 --> 03:33:11,500
They could change it to a. So one of the things that we implemented after the city passed

2159
03:33:11,500 --> 03:33:17,160
their moratorium as we changed our administrative applications to require a disclosure about whether

2160
03:33:18,300 --> 03:33:23,740
the property will be used as a data center through this approval. Now granted, you know,

2161
03:33:23,740 --> 03:33:30,760
people could still fit or leave that conveniently out, but we are asking for that information

2162
03:33:30,760 --> 03:33:40,020
upfront if someone were to convert something to a data center. There is the possibility of

2163
03:33:40,020 --> 03:33:45,580
an enforcement action in the future, depending on what the regulations are, depending on whether

2164
03:33:47,800 --> 03:33:53,140
When their approval came, the permit choice statutes like it's not a cut-and-dry answer,

2165
03:33:53,420 --> 03:33:58,920
it is very situational, but there is potential for enforcement action.

2166
03:34:04,540 --> 03:34:05,420
Commissioner Jacobs.

2167
03:34:07,320 --> 03:34:07,380
Yeah.

2168
03:34:07,480 --> 03:34:19,920
I'm just a follow-up on something that Commissioner Long raised before, and we are the

2169
03:34:19,920 --> 03:34:29,400
exemption, which allows a maximum size of 100,000 square feet of a data center with a closed

2170
03:34:29,400 --> 03:34:35,960
loop system or other cooling technology and also goes into the detail, but also the non-diesel

2171
03:34:35,960 --> 03:34:44,800
backup generation could, we also require that with the exempt D, which is about expansion,

2172
03:34:44,800 --> 03:34:49,060
of an existing data center.

2173
03:35:03,250 --> 03:35:15,710
Please, um, excuse me, would you please? Would you please sit? Would you please sit? Would you please sit?

2174
03:35:17,910 --> 03:35:30,850
I'm going to ask you the leaves! I will ask you the leaves! I ask you the leaves! Okay. Let's, let's have a move. Let's go. Please leave.

2175
03:35:30,850 --> 03:35:31,250
You

2176
03:35:33,840 --> 03:35:35,040
answer your question.

2177
03:35:42,960 --> 03:35:46,780
There is no reason why we couldn't incorporate that language into the as well.

2178
03:35:48,820 --> 03:35:51,220
We could incorporate that.

2179
03:35:53,880 --> 03:35:59,540
And also just following up, I think somebody may have asked this already, but just to clarify,

2180
03:36:00,540 --> 03:36:07,120
with the 20 data centers that we've had and raging in size and also along,

2181
03:36:07,120 --> 03:36:15,780
So you're saying, Sarah, have you had complaints just about the existing ones related to any issue?

2182
03:36:16,560 --> 03:36:16,900
I'm sorry.

2183
03:36:17,460 --> 03:36:23,140
Do you have the existing data centers that are the lists that we got to your knowledge?

2184
03:36:23,140 --> 03:36:25,860
Have we had any complaints about any issues?

2185
03:36:32,360 --> 03:36:33,300
Thank you.

2186
03:36:37,360 --> 03:36:37,560
Okay.

2187
03:36:39,600 --> 03:36:45,780
So now we're going to move the comments and then after that we'll develop. So I'm going to go

2188
03:36:45,780 --> 03:36:52,120
Commissioner Burton vice chair alum, Commissioner Valentine, Commissioner Jacob's and then myself.

2189
03:36:53,300 --> 03:36:59,820
I'm going to ask, I'm going to ask you all to make sure you have your complete comments.

2190
03:36:59,900 --> 03:37:07,700
I don't want to go back and forth. I don't want to. So I'm going to say this. I'm going to respond to this and so forth.

2191
03:37:07,700 --> 03:37:12,480
You know, please do your full comments, you know, when when it's your time to speak now

2192
03:37:14,260 --> 03:37:15,580
We are approaching

2193
03:37:17,700 --> 03:37:30,420
1040. I would imagine this is gonna last pass 11 o'clock and so at Propalicy, we will need to vote to extend our meeting until the first level is gonna be to midnight

2194
03:37:30,420 --> 03:37:32,800
so I'll need a motion to

2195
03:37:33,860 --> 03:37:34,800
extend our session

2196
03:37:34,800 --> 03:37:37,340
to midnight.

2197
03:37:37,660 --> 03:37:38,200
So moved.

2198
03:37:38,400 --> 03:37:38,800
Second.

2199
03:37:39,360 --> 03:37:40,420
It's been moved in probably second

2200
03:37:40,420 --> 03:37:45,140
that we extend our session until midnight.

2201
03:37:45,800 --> 03:37:46,640
Any further discussion?

2202
03:37:47,740 --> 03:37:48,720
All in favor say aye.

2203
03:37:49,520 --> 03:37:51,280
All opposed for you to the same sign.

2204
03:37:51,740 --> 03:37:53,560
Now if we happen to be approaching midnight

2205
03:37:53,560 --> 03:37:55,020
we'll have to do another motion.

2206
03:37:57,120 --> 03:38:01,880
But I'm hoping that we can go ahead and wrap this up

2207
03:38:05,440 --> 03:38:06,320
for bus in the morning.

2208
03:38:07,340 --> 03:38:07,460
All right.

2209
03:38:09,120 --> 03:38:25,610
Thank you, Chair Lee, and I knew this was going to be a very interesting session, and I'm glad

2210
03:38:25,610 --> 03:38:31,290
that we're having this discussion, like I said earlier on August 3rd, which was our work

2211
03:38:31,290 --> 03:38:41,370
session, I was really thinking, okay, we get this, we're doing a UDO, or we're doing an

2212
03:38:41,370 --> 03:38:50,230
ordinance around this, around data centers, specifically hyperscale AI data centers, so we

2213
03:38:50,230 --> 03:38:52,970
can have this regulation because they're not regulated.

2214
03:38:55,370 --> 03:39:00,010
And by training, I'm a librarian,

2215
03:39:00,010 --> 03:39:07,230
and specifically at the elementary level and what I did with children for 30 years is to teach

2216
03:39:07,230 --> 03:39:17,030
them how to synthesize the value-weight information, right? So in this role I did, I've been

2217
03:39:17,030 --> 03:39:28,330
doing this around the state of the city because I knew my knowledge was limited. And one of

2218
03:39:28,330 --> 03:39:36,590
As I see many of the people in this room, young adults, and ourselves, seeing people type

2219
03:39:36,590 --> 03:39:48,170
on their phones, I see people using the videos, I'm seeing people, I see some of the social

2220
03:39:48,170 --> 03:39:59,510
media post, right? And in order for us to do that, that requires data centers, right?

2221
03:40:02,920 --> 03:40:12,560
Please, we're not gonna do that. We're not gonna outweigh the audience.

2222
03:40:15,080 --> 03:40:18,440
We sat here for over an hour, and

2223
03:40:18,440 --> 03:40:22,160
heard public comment and I was up to, okay, please

2224
03:40:25,460 --> 03:40:30,000
please remove your being a citizen, go ahead and lay.

2225
03:40:39,580 --> 03:40:41,000
If we continue, if we continue, if we can

2226
03:40:41,000 --> 03:40:45,860
And then you have interruptions, I'll have to clear the clear the audience.

2227
03:40:47,540 --> 03:40:49,560
If we continue to have interruptions.

2228
03:40:50,840 --> 03:40:51,060
Okay.

2229
03:40:51,880 --> 03:40:52,400
Thank you.

2230
03:40:52,400 --> 03:40:53,020
Thank you.

2231
03:40:53,020 --> 03:40:53,060
Thank you.

2232
03:40:53,260 --> 03:40:54,000
So, yes.

2233
03:40:54,740 --> 03:40:58,420
All this technology that we use now requires data centers.

2234
03:40:58,440 --> 03:41:05,160
So what I was wanting to say is it's important that we're clear with our language, that

2235
03:41:05,160 --> 03:41:11,040
We are focusing on these hyper-scale AI-generative data centers.

2236
03:41:11,220 --> 03:41:12,460
That's what we're focusing on.

2237
03:41:12,480 --> 03:41:19,700
That's what I wanted to say, because when we lump everything into one thing and we're putting

2238
03:41:19,700 --> 03:41:22,620
these messages out, it does confuse people.

2239
03:41:23,260 --> 03:41:30,700
We have gotten several emails today where they have said, no data centers in Durham, no data

2240
03:41:30,700 --> 03:41:31,000
centers.

2241
03:41:31,040 --> 03:41:32,640
We don't want data centers in Durham.

2242
03:41:32,640 --> 03:41:34,620
don't build data centers in Durham, right?

2243
03:41:35,380 --> 03:41:40,600
But we just told you we have about 14 enterprise

2244
03:41:40,600 --> 03:41:43,560
data centers in Durham in about 20

2245
03:41:44,100 --> 03:41:46,080
in the research triangle park area.

2246
03:41:46,440 --> 03:41:49,880
So I want us to be really clear about what we're talking

2247
03:41:49,880 --> 03:41:50,480
about.

2248
03:41:50,620 --> 03:41:51,960
That's number one.

2249
03:41:52,580 --> 03:41:55,700
Number two, the other thing I want to mention,

2250
03:41:56,140 --> 03:41:58,080
and this is, I'm going to give in clear direction

2251
03:41:58,080 --> 03:42:05,540
to staff around how much water, the one of the concerns that I read and a lot of the emails,

2252
03:42:05,920 --> 03:42:12,420
what I've heard tonight, people are really concerned about the water, the water, the energy

2253
03:42:12,420 --> 03:42:19,660
usage, things of that nature, and they're concerned about it with regards to even enterprise

2254
03:42:19,660 --> 03:42:20,480
data centers.

2255
03:42:20,700 --> 03:42:24,540
It's clear that we haven't done those studies, right, and it's going to be important

2256
03:42:24,540 --> 03:42:30,340
that staff, as we're doing this research, that we find out with the data centers that are

2257
03:42:30,340 --> 03:42:37,800
presently here, that we do our research around that because we want to make sure our communities

2258
03:42:37,800 --> 03:42:38,920
are safe.

2259
03:42:39,900 --> 03:42:47,840
And then also, finally, I've heard a lot of comments about, we, us, on this board, from

2260
03:42:47,840 --> 03:42:53,800
many of you, how we're feeding into these corporate interests and things like that.

2261
03:42:53,800 --> 03:43:05,480
I can only speak for myself, I don't do that, I really listen to people, and I really, really try to take to heart as to what the people want.

2262
03:43:06,260 --> 03:43:17,380
So again, and I do my homework. So I went out to RTP. I looked at some of the data centers that are out there to see how big they are.

2263
03:43:17,380 --> 03:43:24,300
I drove to person county to see the one that's being built in person county by Microsoft.

2264
03:43:24,660 --> 03:43:30,720
I am very, very clear that I do not want, and I think all of us up here on this

2265
03:43:30,720 --> 03:43:38,960
dias. We do not want these hyper scale, mega size, data centers in Durham County.

2266
03:43:38,960 --> 03:44:08,820
I am very, very clear on that, but I am concerned when we put, we have these two binary things, what I call binary data centers and they're all bad, they're not good, and I'm like I said I've read some of your posts, I'm very concerned about that because the city and on honesty, they don't have, when they wrote their moratorium, they did not have to consider the research triangle park at all.

2267
03:44:08,820 --> 03:44:15,800
when they wrote their moratorium, they did not have to consider it as the county we do.

2268
03:44:16,240 --> 03:44:23,100
So I just want to put that out there that these are the things that we have to discuss,

2269
03:44:23,240 --> 03:44:25,980
think about when we make these decisions.

2270
03:44:26,340 --> 03:44:27,760
So that's all I want to say.

2271
03:44:28,020 --> 03:44:28,740
Thank you.

2272
03:44:30,440 --> 03:44:31,660
I don't buy share alone.

2273
03:44:32,300 --> 03:44:32,760
Thank you.

2274
03:44:33,260 --> 03:44:37,460
I want to talk fast because I do have like six pages of notes.

2275
03:44:37,460 --> 03:44:40,760
So I'll try to get through it fast to save every one's time.

2276
03:44:41,080 --> 03:44:45,000
So I'm going to start off with what I do not oppose, which is 4B, which as I

2277
03:44:45,000 --> 03:44:47,460
already mentioned is what's required by state law,

2278
03:44:47,680 --> 03:44:51,920
I'm going to touch it, and then section 4C, which is also the exemption, which is in the cities,

2279
03:44:52,480 --> 03:44:56,800
which is the office server room provisions of law, because we know that hospital

2280
03:44:56,800 --> 03:44:59,980
servers are not the concern that we are having.

2281
03:45:00,000 --> 03:45:19,560
Here, and what's bringing folks in the community out in objection to these carve outs. My objections are explicitly sections for A and for D, because when we're talking about what an exemption is, we're basically defining the very thing that this time of the moratorium is supposed to be spent researching.

2282
03:45:19,560 --> 03:45:34,820
We're saying in this ordinance or in this moratorium that a facility using closed loop cooling system is exempt by saying that we're saying that that using closed loop cooling resolves all our problems and resolves the concerns that are being raised.

2283
03:45:35,260 --> 03:45:44,040
And when we when we were exempt facilities relying on non diesel backup we are finding that any remaining or alternate emissions would be acceptable.

2284
03:45:45,080 --> 03:45:50,880
And when we exempt anything under 100,000 square feet, we're saying that a building that size

2285
03:45:50,880 --> 03:45:55,620
does not raise the problems that have been brought to us here and we are also mentioning

2286
03:45:55,620 --> 03:45:56,640
ourselves in the memo.

2287
03:45:57,600 --> 03:46:02,200
But we haven't done any of the research, as you said, like, you know, we've heard from staff

2288
03:46:02,200 --> 03:46:05,900
that they're conducting the research now and that we don't know.

2289
03:46:06,440 --> 03:46:09,760
We don't even have a way to like collect the data around the PFAS.

2290
03:46:10,360 --> 03:46:14,760
So section six of this ordinance list the studies that we haven't even done yet.

2291
03:46:15,400 --> 03:46:22,280
So I just don't see how we can say in one document that we need nine months to answer these questions,

2292
03:46:22,860 --> 03:46:27,120
but then in another document say that we already know the answers by putting in these exemptions.

2293
03:46:28,040 --> 03:46:31,700
And then looking at our own text section three, two,

2294
03:46:31,780 --> 03:46:37,700
tells the public that the moratorium works by preventing vesting of development rights under outdated regulations

2295
03:46:37,700 --> 03:46:40,400
that do not address the impacts of covered uses.

2296
03:46:41,580 --> 03:46:44,880
And that is statutory justified.

2297
03:46:45,540 --> 03:46:49,940
But then Section 4 then allows a class of covered uses to vest

2298
03:46:49,940 --> 03:46:52,980
under precisely the same outdated regulations.

2299
03:46:54,240 --> 03:46:56,660
So the ordinance is contradicting itself

2300
03:46:57,460 --> 03:47:00,020
the more dormitory is contradicting itself

2301
03:47:00,020 --> 03:47:02,220
within four sections of each other.

2302
03:47:03,020 --> 03:47:07,600
And that matters because we know that if there's any sort of action

2303
03:47:07,600 --> 03:47:15,720
concern that residents bring to us or that somebody wants to challenge the moratorium under General

2304
03:47:15,720 --> 03:47:23,640
statute 160D-107F which constitutes moratoriums. It says a challenge to a moratorium receives

2305
03:47:23,640 --> 03:47:29,220
expedited review and the county would bear the burden of showing compliance. And I don't know

2306
03:47:29,220 --> 03:47:35,260
how we would show compliance when we're contradicting ourselves within our own moratorium. And then

2307
03:47:35,260 --> 03:47:40,720
Also in our memo, it says that we found that facility, these facilities, presents substantial

2308
03:47:40,720 --> 03:47:44,120
electricity consumption, water consumption, noise pollution, air emissions, hazardous

2309
03:47:44,120 --> 03:47:49,840
materials storage, all of those we have these eight categories in our own findings, but

2310
03:47:49,840 --> 03:47:52,900
then section 4A only screens two of them.

2311
03:47:53,300 --> 03:48:00,080
And when we screen just two of them in this, in this moratorium, which is what we're supposed

2312
03:48:00,080 --> 03:48:07,160
to be doing this time these nine months to be defining them for the actual UDO changes, and ignoring

2313
03:48:07,160 --> 03:48:12,560
the other issues, we're basically building a gate that only checks two concerns.

2314
03:48:14,760 --> 03:48:20,620
And as allowing things in, that still have all the six other concerns that we have.

2315
03:48:21,360 --> 03:48:23,520
We know, again, we're talking about the closed loop systems.

2316
03:48:24,180 --> 03:48:30,060
I know that as a better system than what these centers use right now, but we don't

2317
03:48:30,060 --> 03:48:36,680
We don't have an answer because we are still researching of is it the best option that could exist and it may well be

2318
03:48:36,680 --> 03:48:38,460
But we haven't done that research and

2319
03:48:39,320 --> 03:48:44,320
The thing is though these things these closed loops cooling systems save water

2320
03:48:44,320 --> 03:48:52,160
But they're using more electricity because the chillers are doing the work that evaporation was doing for free and

2321
03:48:52,160 --> 03:48:57,980
So and electricity consumption was another one of our listed concerns that we had in our own memo

2322
03:48:57,980 --> 03:49:10,440
So, we're saying that we have a concern of electricity consumption, but we are okay with this other method because it uses less water, but it uses more electricity.

2323
03:49:11,540 --> 03:49:27,520
And so, I just want us to be very clear about how we're putting, we're defining all of these things that the UDO changes are meant to, and all the research is supposed to be bringing this information to us before we've done any of that work.

2324
03:49:27,520 --> 03:49:49,120
And then section 40, that's the one that raised foreign commissioner, Jacob's brought up in her comments, really confusing me the most, that the fact that a new facility under 100,000 square feet has these two exemptions apply to it about they have to use the water saving cooling and the non diesel, but any expansion doesn't have to follow those rules.

2325
03:49:50,060 --> 03:49:56,880
And so if they're meaningful conditions for new buildings, they need to be for existing building expansions as well.

2326
03:49:57,800 --> 03:49:59,960
And also going back to the concerns that were listed square.

2327
03:50:00,000 --> 03:50:11,860
The footage was not one of the eight concerns that were listed. It was essentially a staff mentioned. It was the megawatt and the electricity threshold, which we know we can't regulate because it is Duke energy.

2328
03:50:12,300 --> 03:50:28,620
And we don't have the county doesn't have the authority and I understand that constraint. But what I don't understand and follow is how we came to the conclusion that, well, if you can't do megawatt restrictions, then let's go to square footage because they're not equivalent to each other.

2329
03:50:28,620 --> 03:50:36,180
And we know that when we talk about the floor area of these data centers, just a few years ago,

2330
03:50:36,700 --> 03:50:44,140
a conventional server rack, like a conventional server system, would use roughly like five to 15 kilowatts.

2331
03:50:44,820 --> 03:50:47,380
But technology adapts, and we know that.

2332
03:50:47,620 --> 03:50:56,320
Now, the same footprint, the technology that exists today, is roughly 10 times the load that it carries just a few years ago.

2333
03:50:56,320 --> 03:51:02,420
And so, when we set this exemption for 100,000 square feet, that's static, that's not going to change.

2334
03:51:02,860 --> 03:51:04,180
But the technology is changing.

2335
03:51:04,480 --> 03:51:07,620
So, if we're accepting 100,000 square foot facility,

2336
03:51:09,760 --> 03:51:15,320
but they have a 100, they're less than 100 megawatts and say they're 50 megawatts.

2337
03:51:16,140 --> 03:51:18,760
But in two years, new technology may be coming in,

2338
03:51:18,860 --> 03:51:21,460
that they start replacing their components within there,

2339
03:51:21,800 --> 03:51:23,780
that they're actually in the same square footage area,

2340
03:51:23,780 --> 03:51:30,000
able to fit in more servers because they take up less space and using more electricity.

2341
03:51:31,140 --> 03:51:37,120
So none of that is going to change, like that square footage threshold that we're setting now is going to stay static.

2342
03:51:38,900 --> 03:51:40,240
Also sorry, I'm trying to past,

2343
03:51:42,440 --> 03:51:42,440
um,

2344
03:51:42,800 --> 03:51:44,600
to do. So

2345
03:51:45,520 --> 03:51:50,980
the standards that we're spending the next nine months writing is never going to reach

2346
03:51:51,960 --> 03:51:57,720
these companies that may potentially come in during this moratorium period because we're

2347
03:51:57,720 --> 03:52:03,160
already allowing them to come in at 100,000 square feet, they can expand and grow within

2348
03:52:03,160 --> 03:52:08,640
themselves above the concerns that we actually have around electricity usage within that same

2349
03:52:08,640 --> 03:52:14,640
square footage area. But what isn't going to reverse in this nine months and not going to stay

2350
03:52:14,640 --> 03:52:21,580
static is, or in nine years, is what's getting built because I talked about, I mean, I speak

2351
03:52:21,580 --> 03:52:27,240
very often about like my kids. I have Aliahs just turned four on Friday of those two,

2352
03:52:27,520 --> 03:52:32,040
the water that they drink, that they breathe, that all of us breathe, and the power bills

2353
03:52:32,040 --> 03:52:38,460
that their generations are going to inherit are set by what we do now. And that timeline

2354
03:52:38,460 --> 03:52:45,080
is going to far outlast this nine month moratorium, and far outlast any of us sitting up here.

2355
03:52:45,780 --> 03:52:52,740
And so we have to consider what a building approved during this moratorium, the decades of

2356
03:52:52,740 --> 03:52:58,660
impact that it's going to have. And I understand, like, I support, you know, innovation

2357
03:52:58,660 --> 03:53:03,740
and companies coming to Durham and creating jobs and all of those things. But again, we're

2358
03:53:03,740 --> 03:53:11,400
about a nine month period that for me and my perspective that a delay for a company of nine

2359
03:53:11,400 --> 03:53:20,640
months, it's monetary, but the impact on folks' health and wellbeing and financial stability

2360
03:53:20,640 --> 03:53:28,100
is going to last a lifetime for what we approve. And then we're also talking about water. The

2361
03:53:28,100 --> 03:53:32,880
drought map, I looked at the city of Durham's drought map before this, they last released one on

2362
03:53:32,880 --> 03:53:39,680
is 20th. It currently says that North Carolina has now been in a drought for a year and the

2363
03:53:39,680 --> 03:53:46,240
flat river gauge at Bahema and in North Durham County is still at a record low. And our water

2364
03:53:46,240 --> 03:53:52,160
reservoirs that we use for drinking water Lake Mitchie is down six and a half feet and little

2365
03:53:52,160 --> 03:53:59,200
river reservoir is down 12 feet below normal. And we're in the middle of the drought and we're talking

2366
03:53:59,200 --> 03:54:01,820
about these systems that use ass amounts of water.

2367
03:54:02,220 --> 03:54:03,940
And we have the state that's telling consumers

2368
03:54:03,940 --> 03:54:06,560
that they have to conserve water, telling folks

2369
03:54:06,560 --> 03:54:08,240
they have to do full loads of laundry,

2370
03:54:09,040 --> 03:54:12,600
hold off on washing your car, water in your lawns.

2371
03:54:12,700 --> 03:54:15,200
But then we're going to be OK with these facilities

2372
03:54:15,200 --> 03:54:17,840
that are still going to be consuming significantly more

2373
03:54:17,840 --> 03:54:20,980
amounts of water than an average consumer is.

2374
03:54:22,320 --> 03:54:26,520
And going into other exemptions, a moreatorium

2375
03:54:26,520 --> 03:54:32,940
has a specific job, which is to hold things still while we do the work of the research

2376
03:54:32,940 --> 03:54:34,620
of what UDO changes we want.

2377
03:54:35,240 --> 03:54:41,020
And the UDO changes is where we will set the definitions, the thresholds, and exemptions,

2378
03:54:41,320 --> 03:54:43,900
those all belong in the UDO ordinance amendment.

2379
03:54:45,320 --> 03:54:50,160
Where we study them before we define them, and we have the planning commission that steps

2380
03:54:50,160 --> 03:54:51,060
in and provides it.

2381
03:54:51,120 --> 03:54:56,260
And a real public process that we bring together stakeholders that I want to see our community

2382
03:54:56,260 --> 03:54:59,960
partners, our business partners, everyone come together to have that conversation, but we haven't.

2383
03:55:01,180 --> 03:55:07,080
So putting them in the moratorium does the opposite of what a moratorium is supposed to be for.

2384
03:55:08,580 --> 03:55:12,300
And we already have very limited powers by our state government here in North Carolina.

2385
03:55:12,460 --> 03:55:15,900
County governments can't regulate a lot of things.

2386
03:55:16,520 --> 03:55:28,000
So why are we putting ourselves into a tighter box by putting in these exemptions that are going to be dictating us that we're going to allow any of these hundreds of square foot?

2387
03:55:28,920 --> 03:55:32,060
data centers that we still don't know the impacts of.

2388
03:55:32,200 --> 03:55:33,540
I'm just giving some parts and under.

2389
03:55:34,400 --> 03:55:37,180
And we already know that the state, I'm going to just summarize the section.

2390
03:55:37,340 --> 03:55:40,240
I was going to go into about how the state right now is already

2391
03:55:40,240 --> 03:55:44,540
has so many tax exemptions for these data centers.

2392
03:55:45,400 --> 03:55:48,660
And we know that in loud and county one of the things that

2393
03:55:48,660 --> 03:55:52,500
they really, the, like officials and policy officials who support the

2394
03:55:52,500 --> 03:55:55,220
data centers constantly tout is how much revenue is generated

2395
03:55:55,220 --> 03:56:02,620
from sales tax in their revenue, we don't have those powers in North Carolina to generate

2396
03:56:02,620 --> 03:56:07,480
the same amount of like the $2 billion that loud and county has because they're exempt.

2397
03:56:08,680 --> 03:56:12,460
And we even have Republicans within our own general assembly saying that we do need to reverse

2398
03:56:12,460 --> 03:56:12,820
those.

2399
03:56:12,820 --> 03:56:20,360
So this is a bipartisan issue that Republicans are coming out against these data centers and

2400
03:56:20,360 --> 03:56:24,200
creating exemptions for them, as well as tax breaks.

2401
03:56:26,620 --> 03:56:29,920
Now, and also, I mean, we know we had a really tough budget cycle this year.

2402
03:56:29,940 --> 03:56:34,440
Our own tax administrator told us not tax administrator budget director told us just a few weeks ago

2403
03:56:34,440 --> 03:56:44,280
that we can anticipate over the next four years at minimum, probably having to have a four cent property tax rate increase to keep up with our debt that we have.

2404
03:56:45,060 --> 03:57:01,500
And then we're going to be inviting in these companies that are just, we're not going to be generating as much revenue from them that would balance that off, but we are going to be having more capacity needs for them at the same time.

2405
03:57:02,560 --> 03:57:13,840
And all of these policy decisions they don't happen by accident, they happen because somebody made the decision to allow it to happen, whether indirectly or directly.

2406
03:57:14,800 --> 03:57:20,000
And we see what the lobby in China, I'm not saying that this is what's happening here,

2407
03:57:20,020 --> 03:57:26,160
but it's just overall in the tech industry and the oil industry, the farm industry.

2408
03:57:26,420 --> 03:57:30,840
We have lobbyists that spend millions and billions and hundreds and millions of dollars

2409
03:57:30,840 --> 03:57:34,800
loving for their specific policy stances to avoid regulations.

2410
03:57:36,080 --> 03:57:43,700
Because what, in a capitalist society, what we get is these oligarchs and systems

2411
03:57:43,700 --> 03:57:47,920
that care about their bottom line and what profit they're going to make and they do so

2412
03:57:48,240 --> 03:57:54,800
at whatever expense there is to others as long as they are shielded. And we when we're

2413
03:57:54,800 --> 03:57:59,840
writing this more training this UDO change we have the opportunity to say that that we're not

2414
03:57:59,840 --> 03:58:07,140
okay with that anymore related to data centers. And I want to have like a little bit of a

2415
03:58:07,140 --> 03:58:12,220
thought exercise because I was thinking about this I spoke to the Duke ethics staff for

2416
03:58:13,600 --> 03:58:17,420
last week, and we were talking, they were asking questions about data centers in policy.

2417
03:58:18,540 --> 03:58:23,820
And, you know, somebody was asking, well, AI is going to be inevitable.

2418
03:58:24,100 --> 03:58:25,300
We're going to be using it.

2419
03:58:25,560 --> 03:58:27,400
So how do you oppose something?

2420
03:58:28,160 --> 03:58:32,180
And how pose these data centers when it's something that likely the county and yourself

2421
03:58:32,180 --> 03:58:34,520
are going to be using when they are not there?

2422
03:58:34,980 --> 03:58:39,380
And I compared it to, I mean, the fast fashion industry, all of us need to wear clothes.

2423
03:58:39,380 --> 03:58:58,660
We all have to cover ourselves, but that doesn't mean I condone the fast fashion industry and the sweatshops that exist in Bangladesh and other countries where they pay folks 20 cents a day to produce 100 garments a day, but it is

2424
03:58:59,260 --> 03:59:06,420
But if I had the opportunity to go back before the fast fashion industry began booming, I would have been advocating for

2425
03:59:06,420 --> 03:59:10,460
structure regulations on that, and that's just the same as if we looked about going back

2426
03:59:10,460 --> 03:59:15,120
to even here in this country, back to 2008, if we think about it before the financial

2427
03:59:15,120 --> 03:59:22,800
crash, people were warning us that mortgage underwriting had collapsed, that leverage in

2428
03:59:22,800 --> 03:59:30,480
the system was untenable and that these derivatives were vague and that they were vague

2429
03:59:30,480 --> 03:59:35,620
design. They were met with pushback and told that they'd

2430
03:59:35,620 --> 03:59:38,180
understand the market and that regulation was going to

2431
03:59:38,180 --> 03:59:41,160
strangle innovation and hurt ordinary homeowners and hurt

2432
03:59:41,160 --> 03:59:42,460
people from being able to buy homes.

2433
03:59:43,480 --> 03:59:46,500
But I think any of us, I hope would say if we look back

2434
03:59:46,500 --> 03:59:50,380
at that time period, that we would have said no, we should have

2435
03:59:50,380 --> 03:59:55,760
had strict regulations on lending standards and caps on

2436
03:59:55,760 --> 03:59:58,000
financial leverage and all of those things to have

2437
03:59:58,000 --> 03:59:59,960
prevented an economic collapse.

2438
04:00:00,000 --> 04:00:13,040
The way that we saw in 2008. So if we see history repeating itself in industries that were unregulated, and we allowed them to go unregulated for so long, and waited to change them after there was a collapse.

2439
04:00:14,420 --> 04:00:22,200
After we have drastic impacts that, I mean, we lost people lost lives after the economic crash. They lost their homes.

2440
04:00:24,480 --> 04:00:33,180
We shouldn't have to wait until the data center issue becomes a loud and county situation of 250 data centers.

2441
04:00:33,340 --> 04:00:39,920
We shouldn't have to wait till every child is being born with forever chemicals already in their bloodstream,

2442
04:00:41,240 --> 04:00:42,980
or every child is born with asthma.

2443
04:00:43,940 --> 04:00:48,120
Because we already learned our lesson from 2008, even if it's a different industry,

2444
04:00:48,120 --> 04:00:56,160
the lesson we should be learning is about regulation and how we as policy officials have that power.

2445
04:00:56,460 --> 04:01:03,580
Almost in the promise and I'm not trying to say in any way whatever that the folks who work at these companies are evil or bad or anything.

2446
04:01:04,440 --> 04:01:13,760
My dad, he worked in IT in RTP for over 30 years. The IT space is what actually brought my family and I hear to this country.

2447
04:01:13,760 --> 04:01:22,640
So our entire livelihood has depended on IT, but the issue is that these corporations are going to do whatever they can to maximize their returns.

2448
04:01:23,380 --> 04:01:33,700
We see this even with like wind and solar. We know wind and solar is cheaper to produce, is cheaper to put up farms and everything in its better farm environment.

2449
04:01:34,900 --> 04:01:43,340
But the oil industry and lobby is never going to want us to move towards that because they're going to lose their financial capital.

2450
04:01:43,340 --> 04:01:49,790
they could shift to become solar farmers and win farmers, but they wanted easy for them.

2451
04:01:52,080 --> 04:01:54,900
And that's in me the same with this industry, with the tech industry.

2452
04:01:55,640 --> 04:01:59,680
They could, tech industry could be doing research of how, okay, if they have closed

2453
04:01:59,680 --> 04:02:05,080
loop systems, how to make them without PFAS, but that only way they're going to do that is if

2454
04:02:05,080 --> 04:02:12,900
they're pressured to, because no one is going to be allowing them to build while they emit toxic chemicals

2455
04:02:12,900 --> 04:02:15,960
into our water while they emit toxic fumes into our air.

2456
04:02:16,300 --> 04:02:19,920
The only way they're going to do that is if they're forced to, and this is one of the very

2457
04:02:19,920 --> 04:02:23,440
limited powers that we have within Durham County as a county government in North Carolina

2458
04:02:23,440 --> 04:02:24,680
is our land use.

2459
04:02:26,660 --> 04:02:33,600
So whatever we decide today, it is going to be a choice that is going to have a lasting impact.

2460
04:02:33,820 --> 04:02:42,440
It's not going to be just a nine-month impact, and that's why I hope that we have the

2461
04:02:42,440 --> 04:02:45,220
understanding that this nine months should be

2462
04:02:45,220 --> 04:02:50,360
not a total ban on any data center forever and ever.

2463
04:02:50,380 --> 04:02:53,980
It is nine months that we actually research what

2464
04:02:53,980 --> 04:02:57,480
regulations, how we define it, actually put a use case in

2465
04:02:57,480 --> 04:03:01,740
our UDO related to any of the centers and come back with

2466
04:03:01,740 --> 04:03:04,780
staff for the UDO changes that the city and county will put

2467
04:03:04,780 --> 04:03:09,720
together. And I did have a motion I wanted to present for

2468
04:03:09,720 --> 04:03:13,580
amendments to it, but I don't know if you wanted to wait. Should I wait till after comments?

2469
04:03:35,620 --> 04:03:36,260
Commissioner Valentine.

2470
04:03:36,820 --> 04:03:42,540
Yes, thank you chair. So let me just acknowledge the comments made by my steam

2471
04:03:42,540 --> 04:03:51,940
colleagues thus far on what I consider to be a very complex and nuanced issue for our community.

2472
04:03:52,900 --> 04:04:02,960
And say thank you to the community for coming out and expressing themselves in the marketplace of ideas.

2473
04:04:04,480 --> 04:04:13,930
We've had an opportunity over the last several months, quite frankly, to hear from many of our residents.

2474
04:04:13,930 --> 04:04:20,970
and I want you to know that I've taken very very much care and reading through what the

2475
04:04:20,970 --> 04:04:33,570
some of the concerns are in our community. I hear fear and uncertainty about data centers in general

2476
04:04:35,770 --> 04:04:43,830
and what that invokes in individuals in our our community. Particularly at a time when our

2477
04:04:43,930 --> 04:04:48,050
resources are being strained and stretched as

2478
04:04:48,050 --> 04:04:52,790
Result of our growth and those who know me and have followed me

2479
04:04:53,430 --> 04:04:59,950
Know that I take very seriously issues particularly as a deal with our water and our waterways

2480
04:05:01,070 --> 04:05:10,070
Pollution and in the instance of data centers, generally, noise and other environmental concerns.

2481
04:05:10,390 --> 04:05:21,350
And so I take all of those considerations into the decisions that I make and about growth in general in our community.

2482
04:05:22,070 --> 04:05:28,930
It has always been my position that we need to be smart in how we move forward.

2483
04:05:30,410 --> 04:05:53,370
A great deal about this discussion, which I think that was alluded to by at least one of the county commissioners thus far dates back to a decision in November of 2005 when this board voted unanimously to open up RTP for RTP 3.0.

2484
04:05:53,370 --> 04:05:59,470
for both residential and mixed youth development.

2485
04:06:01,110 --> 04:06:12,250
People had a vision in back in 1959 that led to exponential growth in our state, over

2486
04:06:12,250 --> 04:06:13,890
seven, seven decades,

2487
04:06:16,560 --> 04:06:19,280
and we made a commitment to open it in a park.

2488
04:06:19,280 --> 04:06:28,600
Again, I'll reiterate unanimously, and I don't want to be in a position not to honor that commitment,

2489
04:06:29,480 --> 04:06:44,380
because RTP has been the economic driver for our community, for our state, and for our nation, and that means a lot.

2490
04:06:44,380 --> 04:06:54,180
In fact, that is a contributing factor in the standard of living that we now enjoy here in

2491
04:06:54,180 --> 04:06:54,820
Dorn County.

2492
04:06:56,820 --> 04:07:05,380
Now overall, I believe that there is a consensus in our community that in fact, this

2493
04:07:05,380 --> 04:07:13,160
is not loud in county and I will fight to ensure that this will never be loud in county.

2494
04:07:14,200 --> 04:07:28,960
But the discussion here today is about excluding hyperscale data centers, ones that are AI focused,

2495
04:07:30,680 --> 04:07:34,100
ones that are considered to be mega data centers.

2496
04:07:34,620 --> 04:07:36,840
It's clear, and I think everyone agrees.

2497
04:07:37,240 --> 04:07:41,980
That's not consistent with the values of our community.

2498
04:07:43,710 --> 04:07:53,250
And when we had staff go to do the homework and come up with an exemption or several exemptions,

2499
04:07:53,930 --> 04:08:00,250
I believe it was in the spirit of ensuring that we did not impact on our ability to attract

2500
04:08:01,910 --> 04:08:05,910
business to research triangle park.

2501
04:08:08,420 --> 04:08:14,020
And I believe that the spirit of those exemptions capsulizes that.

2502
04:08:14,020 --> 04:08:30,020
Now, I have spoken from this dias before and expressed a concern about what that 100,000 square foot exemption actually means in light of how fast technology is moving.

2503
04:08:30,640 --> 04:08:33,740
But it's not understanding today with regards to guardrails.

2504
04:08:33,960 --> 04:08:39,220
That represents one of the only guardrails that we potentially have during the period.

2505
04:08:39,220 --> 04:08:45,120
when we come up with a permanent solution for this issue for our community.

2506
04:08:47,100 --> 04:08:54,340
And so, it's not my intent to be long-winded in my presentation here this evening.

2507
04:08:55,560 --> 04:09:05,800
But to the extent that amendments are post, I would be in favor of looking at the language from 4A being integrated into 4D.

2508
04:09:05,800 --> 04:09:15,400
And also that we consider whether or not 100,000 square feet should actually be the guardrail.

2509
04:09:16,220 --> 04:09:21,020
And so to the extent that there are some other considerations around that,

2510
04:09:21,260 --> 04:09:27,180
I'd be willing to entertain that in light of the fact that the county is different.

2511
04:09:28,340 --> 04:09:31,940
We have considerations that are different from the city.

2512
04:09:35,530 --> 04:09:38,770
RTP, Trayburn, and other incorporated areas.

2513
04:09:39,130 --> 04:09:41,130
But again, this is not loud and county,

2514
04:09:41,690 --> 04:09:45,330
and I will continue to fight with everything within me.

2515
04:09:45,810 --> 04:09:50,370
That these hyper-scale, data centers not come to do our

2516
04:09:50,370 --> 04:09:50,790
county.

2517
04:09:51,430 --> 04:09:52,310
Chair, I yield.

2518
04:09:58,270 --> 04:09:59,970
Thank you, I first want to say, I-

2519
04:10:00,050 --> 04:10:10,330
I appreciate all the comments of my amazing colleagues. And I really appreciate everyone who's been here tonight.

2520
04:10:10,750 --> 04:10:18,910
This is a very emotional issue. I can feel it in every single speaker who got appeared tonight.

2521
04:10:19,630 --> 04:10:25,330
people if you're very deeply about this issue and it really touches a lot of

2522
04:10:25,330 --> 04:10:29,570
things. A lot of things that we don't have any control over like the role of

2523
04:10:29,570 --> 04:10:38,590
AI in our society today and you know we are we're headed in

2524
04:10:40,600 --> 04:10:44,140
many realms and so

2525
04:10:44,140 --> 04:10:50,540
that obviously is not something that we we can control we can control though

2526
04:10:50,540 --> 04:10:54,400
whether we do have the hyperscale and AI,

2527
04:10:54,480 --> 04:10:55,740
dangerous centers in our community.

2528
04:10:55,980 --> 04:11:00,900
And again, to echo everyone that they are very frightening.

2529
04:11:01,680 --> 04:11:06,740
And I share people's fears about their impact on communities

2530
04:11:06,740 --> 04:11:08,460
and our environment.

2531
04:11:11,120 --> 04:11:15,200
But again, I appreciate I've read every email,

2532
04:11:15,480 --> 04:11:18,260
people who have shared information with me.

2533
04:11:18,260 --> 04:11:24,360
I've read every article that's been sent to me because again, I think it's important that

2534
04:11:24,360 --> 04:11:31,120
I have a responsibility to educate myself so I did go to a forum in New Orleans last

2535
04:11:31,120 --> 04:11:36,220
month, that was a national forum, a session on data centers last week.

2536
04:11:36,360 --> 04:11:42,420
We have one here and I also participated in a webinar that the League of Municipalities

2537
04:11:42,420 --> 04:11:49,860
provided and I will continue to try to learn as much and ask as many questions as I can.

2538
04:11:50,960 --> 04:11:59,840
I've always felt like my job as a county commissioner is to listen to everyone and try to make

2539
04:11:59,840 --> 04:12:06,400
the most informed decision that I can in the best interest.

2540
04:12:40,740 --> 04:12:45,040
So I do want to note that as I did

2541
04:12:45,040 --> 04:12:52,320
my research that so person county, which Commissioner Burton went to, is being built by

2542
04:12:52,320 --> 04:13:04,360
Microsoft on 31,358 acres and other rural counties. There is a 1.3 million square feet made

2543
04:13:04,360 --> 04:13:12,920
at Metacampus and Rutherford County and 800 acre Amazon campus in Richmond County and

2544
04:13:12,920 --> 04:13:18,420
a 1 million square foot apple made in campus in Kentucky County.

2545
04:13:21,780 --> 04:13:28,080
I think it is really important though that we ground this discussion in the realities

2546
04:13:28,080 --> 04:13:28,840
and Durham.

2547
04:13:29,960 --> 04:13:36,400
So that's why I tried to say before, right now, what we have even in the pros language, we

2548
04:13:36,400 --> 04:13:40,720
are not there's not going to be this type of development in Durham.

2549
04:13:43,040 --> 04:13:44,880
And again, as I was

2550
04:13:44,880 --> 04:13:52,320
trying to ask in my questioning, I think it is important to understand that we have to

2551
04:13:52,320 --> 04:14:01,000
consider the research triangle park in our decision making. As other commissioners have

2552
04:14:01,000 --> 04:14:09,160
noticed that this is not just unique to Durham, but actually North Carolina and a lot

2553
04:14:09,160 --> 04:14:13,900
very few places in the United States have research and development.

2554
04:14:15,980 --> 04:14:18,300
Parks like we do and it

2555
04:14:18,300 --> 04:14:26,380
is the source of a lot of the revenue sales tax revenue property tax revenue that basically funds

2556
04:14:26,380 --> 04:14:29,040
Durham County government. So,

2557
04:14:32,560 --> 04:14:40,140
and we have Duke is one of our major employer in Durham,

2558
04:14:41,040 --> 04:14:48,860
but also we have 400 companies in RTP. And they're not just all big companies. There are

2559
04:14:48,860 --> 04:14:53,760
a lot of small companies. If you've ever been out to the frontier, there are a lot of

2560
04:14:53,760 --> 04:14:59,840
there are a lot of small companies and businesses they are entrepreneur.

2561
04:15:00,000 --> 04:15:25,060
And there were life signs companies from a suitable, their companies doing electric vehicle, manufacturing and technology. It's a whole range of things. And a lot of things that are about making our world better related to diseases and again, green technology.

2562
04:15:26,340 --> 04:15:33,200
But one of the things that for me is most important is that there are a lot of really good

2563
04:15:33,200 --> 04:15:39,900
jobs in RTP, Durham County, since I've been a county commissioner, has been very focused

2564
04:15:39,900 --> 04:15:44,420
on how do we get Durham residents into these jobs.

2565
04:15:44,940 --> 04:15:51,980
So the county, we have been investing in programs like the Bulls Academy with Made in Durham,

2566
04:15:51,980 --> 04:15:57,580
where we are specifically targeting young people of color, a lot of them who didn't graduate

2567
04:15:57,580 --> 04:16:04,960
from high school and helping them get the certification so they can go into these life

2568
04:16:04,960 --> 04:16:13,920
science jobs and I went to their recent graduation and met a young person who just got a job

2569
04:16:13,920 --> 04:16:19,040
United therapeutics, another who's been offered jobs in RTP.

2570
04:16:19,320 --> 04:16:31,240
I say all this to say that for me, I do have to be grounded in thinking about impacts to

2571
04:16:31,240 --> 04:16:31,780
RTP.

2572
04:16:32,220 --> 04:16:41,000
And from my understanding is that what we are looking at is, we've heard from stakeholders

2573
04:16:41,000 --> 04:16:50,980
and RTP is that what we need to pay attention to around unintended consequences is the enterprise

2574
04:16:50,980 --> 04:16:57,300
and the edge data centers that are helping just the day-to-day functioning a lot of these companies.

2575
04:16:57,580 --> 04:17:06,460
They don't have their own data centers, but they will use whatever data centers that are close to them

2576
04:17:06,460 --> 04:17:09,580
for storage and processing of information,

2577
04:17:12,900 --> 04:17:17,480
so I, this is again, what, you know, I feel

2578
04:17:17,480 --> 04:17:23,960
like I have to take into consideration, we've lost our congressional district has lost

2579
04:17:23,960 --> 04:17:31,440
more federal funding than anywhere else in the United States. So we've had hits to EPA and

2580
04:17:31,440 --> 04:17:41,500
H, RTI, FHI, it's estimated that we've lost over 6,000 jobs under the Trump administration.

2581
04:17:42,020 --> 04:17:42,960
So it's real.

2582
04:17:44,240 --> 04:17:52,520
And so for me, I'm looking for what makes sense in terms of having some realistic,

2583
04:17:53,260 --> 04:17:58,180
reasonable guardrails so that we're not because what we're hearing from some of these

2584
04:17:58,180 --> 04:18:05,440
companies, is they want to renovate their data centers within the next nine months and just

2585
04:18:05,440 --> 04:18:11,120
making renovations to actually make them more energy efficient or anything, they would not

2586
04:18:11,120 --> 04:18:15,000
be able to do it under a blanket, more touring.

2587
04:18:17,320 --> 04:18:26,520
And then also we also had heard that there was plans for building, again, one of these enterprise

2588
04:18:27,400 --> 04:18:35,740
edge centers on some land that, you know, anyway, the overall impacts that we've heard

2589
04:18:35,740 --> 04:18:43,920
is about a half a billion dollars if we don't allow anything to happen at all in RTP over

2590
04:18:43,920 --> 04:18:45,300
the next non-months.

2591
04:18:45,340 --> 04:18:51,600
I think it's important to understand that there is not no impact, and I also don't want

2592
04:18:51,600 --> 04:18:57,480
over-promise, and that's why I was trying to ask the questions about what can we or

2593
04:18:57,480 --> 04:18:57,900
cannot.

2594
04:18:58,240 --> 04:19:04,360
No, we don't do, even after non-miss, I don't want to over-promise on us being able to address

2595
04:19:04,360 --> 04:19:09,860
some of the really valid issues, for instance, around the water.

2596
04:19:10,080 --> 04:19:15,340
I'm really concerned about that, that whether we're even going to be able to address that

2597
04:19:15,340 --> 04:19:16,800
our final ordinance.

2598
04:19:20,680 --> 04:19:24,660
So, these are, you know, some of the things that I'm thinking

2599
04:19:24,660 --> 04:19:37,260
about and I, I, I do appreciate the staff bringing us something that would provide

2600
04:19:37,260 --> 04:19:43,060
some way for some economic, some of the economic activity to continue.

2601
04:19:43,600 --> 04:19:45,260
RTP is trying to pivot.

2602
04:19:45,900 --> 04:19:52,520
The RTP 3.0 is about trying to make RTP a live workplace environment.

2603
04:19:53,000 --> 04:19:55,360
And the county has been really invested in it.

2604
04:19:55,660 --> 04:19:59,960
We've spent $20 million to on the...

2605
04:20:00,000 --> 04:20:08,460
So, we have, as first model, but the idea is that there will be 40,000 people eventually living there,

2606
04:20:10,860 --> 04:20:29,000
and there's, and I was asking about the RTB 3.0, is because it's my understanding that anybody who came forward with a site plan would actually have to go under some rigorous requirements that we actually can't,

2607
04:20:29,680 --> 04:20:38,980
provide ourselves under our current zoning ordinance, one of the things I learned in the session from the School of Government is that we're

2608
04:20:38,980 --> 04:20:47,520
unfortunately going to be impacted and I should have asked you this earlier, Sarah, but the down zoning

2609
04:20:47,520 --> 04:20:59,220
or statute that's in place right now, it's statute 160d-601, that is now restricting counties

2610
04:20:59,220 --> 04:21:04,940
from doing any type of down zoning, and this is actually could be a very serious issue.

2611
04:21:05,600 --> 04:21:15,820
Let me look at what we can do with a data center ordinance, I think for me one of the hopes

2612
04:21:15,820 --> 04:21:23,000
is that the fact that we have the RTP 3.0, we may actually have more authority in RTP to have

2613
04:21:23,000 --> 04:21:29,740
more control. And Pablo, I do want to address what you said about the Special Task District,

2614
04:21:30,060 --> 04:21:37,080
so just so you know, they are using that money to build a multi-model hub in RTP, so we have

2615
04:21:37,080 --> 04:21:44,260
transit. They're using it to help build a triangle bikeways, so people can bike to work and they're

2616
04:21:44,260 --> 04:21:50,480
the county at with that money too because they're paying for a space for the share of

2617
04:21:50,480 --> 04:21:56,820
steppities. So I just think it's important for folks to know that that's how they're actually

2618
04:21:56,820 --> 04:22:01,620
helping pay for things that we don't have to pay for at our budget.

2619
04:22:04,140 --> 04:22:08,560
Anyway, I just think it's

2620
04:22:08,560 --> 04:22:15,780
burden for me that I have to weigh all of these things and I take very seriously all the issues

2621
04:22:15,780 --> 04:22:26,280
that everyone has raised. Again, we will not be allowing hyperscale data centers if we do

2622
04:22:26,280 --> 04:22:34,900
these exemptions and but I want to make sure we don't have unintended consequences of the

2623
04:22:34,900 --> 04:22:43,080
reality of the jobs that people depend on in our community, being able to continue moving

2624
04:22:43,080 --> 04:22:43,380
forward.

2625
04:22:43,680 --> 04:22:44,540
Thank you.

2626
04:22:48,060 --> 04:22:49,520
Thank you Commissioner Jacobs.

2627
04:22:50,480 --> 04:22:51,660
I'm not going to talk long.

2628
04:22:52,100 --> 04:22:58,920
I was not expecting to be talking from this diet set of 11, 30 at night.

2629
04:23:03,620 --> 04:23:09,140
I really appreciate the public comment, all the public comment, and we've got a lot

2630
04:23:09,140 --> 04:23:14,980
emails and there's nothing surprising that we heard here tonight.

2631
04:23:16,680 --> 04:23:24,440
But what I found interesting is, and I actually, I actually said this last meeting we

2632
04:23:24,440 --> 04:23:34,780
had, is, everyone here on this side of Dias, on that side of Dias agrees with the AI data

2633
04:23:34,780 --> 04:23:35,180
centers.

2634
04:23:37,520 --> 04:23:41,680
That is, that is, that is, that's a given that there's that we all support

2635
04:23:41,680 --> 04:23:49,340
not even just a moratorium, but if we had opportunity, we would ban hyperscale, AI-use

2636
04:23:49,340 --> 04:23:56,960
data centers. I'm no different from that. I absolutely agree with that. I think the challenge

2637
04:23:56,960 --> 04:24:07,960
And some of the threads I heard through tonight is the maybe confusion about what this

2638
04:24:07,960 --> 04:24:16,040
moratorium actually is I don't know a person say that they were told that a data center

2639
04:24:16,040 --> 04:24:24,240
was going to be built that we're voting on building a data center near their home or something

2640
04:24:24,240 --> 04:24:35,240
like that. And this person said that that made her worry, which is why they came down here

2641
04:24:35,240 --> 04:24:38,920
to speak. Right?

2642
04:24:42,760 --> 04:24:50,000
We heard someone a few people say, you know, not all data centers are

2643
04:24:50,000 --> 04:24:50,580
same,

2644
04:24:52,720 --> 04:24:59,960
but we need to ban the AI data centers which are all of them, and that's a

2645
04:25:00,240 --> 04:25:26,600
The reason I bring that up is because that is the, that not all data centers are the same. It is the root of the question that I started with when I started meeting with people and organizations about this is how are we defining that because they're not all AIU status centers.

2646
04:25:26,600 --> 04:25:36,620
And that was my simple question was, is, what are we defining here, what are we trying to stop?

2647
04:25:39,470 --> 04:25:43,450
From that point, it was a disagreement, a difference of opinion and disagreement.

2648
04:25:45,720 --> 04:25:52,440
Some want total stoppage of anything related to a data center, as some don't.

2649
04:25:52,440 --> 04:26:01,400
I don't necessarily think that old data centers are AI-U-A-I-U-S, okay?

2650
04:26:01,700 --> 04:26:02,400
I just don't.

2651
04:26:03,400 --> 04:26:07,040
And that's what this moratorium represents.

2652
04:26:08,140 --> 04:26:16,060
Now I want to clarify something because it was brought up in public comment.

2653
04:26:16,060 --> 04:26:19,980
I did not come up with 100,000 square feet.

2654
04:26:20,760 --> 04:26:27,280
The first time I heard it was in the meeting and I said, oh, you know, that may be a good

2655
04:26:27,280 --> 04:26:29,140
in between measure.

2656
04:26:29,980 --> 04:26:31,940
I even asked, what does that mean?

2657
04:26:32,240 --> 04:26:33,160
What are the sizes?

2658
04:26:33,920 --> 04:26:34,700
What does that mean?

2659
04:26:35,400 --> 04:26:40,980
So no, I did not come up with that and it magically showed up in this.

2660
04:26:41,180 --> 04:26:43,020
I asked questions about it.

2661
04:26:43,020 --> 04:26:48,590
So I think,

2662
04:26:51,440 --> 04:27:09,220
as I mentioned last time as well, we don't have the luxury of just going without oversight in what actually the outcomes of decisions that we make, what those outcomes are.

2663
04:27:09,340 --> 04:27:11,880
We don't have the luxury of not thinking about that.

2664
04:27:11,880 --> 04:27:14,700
And so we have to take the time to do that.

2665
04:27:15,040 --> 04:27:23,780
And I understand that's essentially what the moratorium is for, but the more immediate needs as well, we have to think about that as well.

2666
04:27:24,360 --> 04:27:40,060
And that's why my position hasn't changed on the need to make sure that we're structuring Durham against AI data centers, AI based or AI use data centers, even to large data centers.

2667
04:27:40,060 --> 04:27:54,240
While also allowing the flexibility to make sure that we're not handicapping the small companies

2668
04:27:54,240 --> 04:27:55,640
American underground,

2669
04:27:57,960 --> 04:28:02,640
the small companies that don't use AI data centers that don't build

2670
04:28:02,640 --> 04:28:08,600
or use those AI data centers that use data retrieval, we had a couple of developers come

2671
04:28:08,600 --> 04:28:21,160
here today and in favor of a day of a moratorium without exceptions and that's fair, but

2672
04:28:21,160 --> 04:28:26,780
those developers by nature of today's development and that's what I used to do when

2673
04:28:26,780 --> 04:28:32,660
I was at IBM as well, those developers use data.

2674
04:28:32,660 --> 04:28:41,220
That data is stored somewhere depending on what company that they were for is probably

2675
04:28:41,220 --> 04:28:46,380
at the building or near the campus in which they work, if they were from home wherever

2676
04:28:46,380 --> 04:28:58,540
their company is located, but they use data and a loosely written moratorium could prevent

2677
04:28:58,540 --> 04:29:06,160
those individuals from continuing to innovate, from their jobs as developers.

2678
04:29:07,320 --> 04:29:11,780
Every single company here no matter where you work, no matter what you do,

2679
04:29:12,260 --> 04:29:19,680
you are going to restaurant, you work on a farm, you work at a school, you work at a parks and

2680
04:29:19,680 --> 04:29:25,380
Check, wherever, inside, outside, that company is somewhere,

2681
04:29:25,720 --> 04:29:30,740
somewhere uses data retrieval of some sort, if it's transactions,

2682
04:29:31,780 --> 04:29:37,000
if it is customer data, if it is plant data, if it whatever it may be,

2683
04:29:37,720 --> 04:29:42,000
you use it, if you work in manufacturing, you obviously understand data

2684
04:29:42,000 --> 04:29:44,080
and machinery is used.

2685
04:29:45,300 --> 04:29:50,720
That's the only thing I want to make sure that we're not handicapped during this period.

2686
04:29:53,280 --> 04:29:59,980
So I tear a lot of them. You make very good points about some of the parts of the more torque.

2687
04:30:01,140 --> 04:30:10,540
And along with Commissioner Valentine, Valentine, I'm okay with us kind of reviewing what that actually means.

2688
04:30:10,920 --> 04:30:20,440
And making sure that we are not speaking double or we're not handicapping with 100,000, whatever that is.

2689
04:30:21,620 --> 04:30:35,580
But I want to be clear that we have the responsibility to limit, as Commissioner Jacob said,

2690
04:30:36,160 --> 04:30:42,120
the unintended consequences of anything that we do, not just this, not just this decision.

2691
04:30:43,680 --> 04:30:45,880
We have to make sure that we're limiting that.

2692
04:30:45,880 --> 04:30:52,860
And I think this moratorium, the way that it is written, helps us to do that for these nine months.

2693
04:30:55,100 --> 04:31:00,000
Now, regardless of what happens with this moratorium today,

2694
04:31:02,100 --> 04:31:03,140
this is only temporary.

2695
04:31:04,680 --> 04:31:09,340
And the wording and the regulation and things are going to be in the UDO,

2696
04:31:09,340 --> 04:31:19,420
And it's going to be a lot more complicated than this deciding what level on which we try to minimize the challenges.

2697
04:31:20,260 --> 04:31:22,060
That's going to be a bigger problem.

2698
04:31:24,600 --> 04:31:30,080
So, I support this moratorium.

2699
04:31:30,540 --> 04:31:37,740
The way to just written, however, I am open, like attorney Williams said,

2700
04:31:37,740 --> 04:31:38,840
I'm

2701
04:31:40,920 --> 04:31:47,600
open to us making adjustments because it was written that way making adjustments making sure that we resolve

2702
04:31:47,600 --> 04:31:53,440
some of these inconsistencies that have been identified I'm okay. I'm okay with doing that

2703
04:31:54,440 --> 04:32:03,300
but the spirit of what we have here satisfies what it is that I want to make sure that we're preventing

2704
04:32:04,740 --> 04:32:25,580
It keeps AI, hyper scale, out, while also, you know, allow and regular use, data retrieval type data centers to make sure that we're actually making, we're having, we have balance in what we're doing.

2705
04:32:25,580 --> 04:32:35,700
Okay. So, for the comments being completed, there was, so there's, I guess there's

2706
04:32:35,700 --> 04:32:41,440
requests for motions, motions to be performed. Okay. Well, there would be a motion

2707
04:32:41,440 --> 04:32:50,560
to be performed. Now, Commissioner Lam initially says she had a motion to perform. I'll

2708
04:32:50,560 --> 04:32:51,620
allow her to make her motion.

2709
04:32:54,180 --> 04:32:57,460
I have a couple, but I'm going to start at the top.

2710
04:32:59,060 --> 04:33:04,500
My first motion would be that I would move to amend the proposed ordinance by removing

2711
04:33:04,500 --> 04:33:13,940
Section 4A and 4D, retaining Section 4B and 4C, and by updating Section 3 as necessary

2712
04:33:14,580 --> 04:33:18,720
to match so that the statutory statements match that amended scope.

2713
04:33:27,520 --> 04:33:30,480
Second, for commissar along the motion

2714
04:33:36,240 --> 04:33:39,420
here and then, the motion fails.

2715
04:33:41,580 --> 04:33:47,840
My next motion would be then to, I move to a men's section 40 to apply the same cooling and back up generator.

2716
04:33:48,340 --> 04:33:50,340
Conditions required under section 4A.

2717
04:33:58,540 --> 04:33:59,720
Could you repeat the motion?

2718
04:34:00,400 --> 04:34:07,620
I move to a men's section 4D to apply the same cooling and back up generation conditions required for section 4A.

2719
04:34:11,590 --> 04:34:17,330
So there's been a motion has been properly seconded it all up for discussion

2720
04:34:19,090 --> 04:34:26,100
Do you need any discussion mr. Burton. Nope

2721
04:34:26,100 --> 04:34:28,440
Commission Valentine no, no

2722
04:34:29,440 --> 04:34:37,160
Commission Jacob's I need discussion no, I agree. Okay. Yeah. All right, so like a

2723
04:34:37,160 --> 04:34:40,600
All in favor say hi

2724
04:34:41,520 --> 04:34:43,340
All the post please use the same sign

2725
04:34:43,340 --> 04:34:55,220
All right, the motion to amend 4D with the same cooling and diesel, the backup generators.

2726
04:34:55,240 --> 04:34:58,280
The backup generators, that's 4A.

2727
04:35:00,000 --> 04:35:03,780
So, this is the expansion versus new construction, differentiation.

2728
04:35:04,920 --> 04:35:06,720
All right. That motion passes.

2729
04:35:07,000 --> 04:35:07,960
I had some more motions.

2730
04:35:08,520 --> 04:35:09,540
Okay. All right.

2731
04:35:09,820 --> 04:35:14,580
I move to a men's section four to provide that.

2732
04:35:14,680 --> 04:35:17,840
Excuse me from wrong worries. Is this one already?

2733
04:35:18,120 --> 04:35:19,860
Would it be covered from the clear for her question?

2734
04:35:20,440 --> 04:35:28,360
I'm moving to a men's section four to provide that separate buildings or phases on the same parcel of land under common ownership.

2735
04:35:33,080 --> 04:35:45,680
So that's then I would move to a men's section for A to require as a condition of exemption that an applicant certifying writing, that it's expected,

2736
04:35:45,680 --> 04:35:52,080
connected electrical writing it's expected connected electrical load it's cooling

2737
04:35:52,080 --> 04:35:59,400
system type and working fluid and it's back up generation fuel and that we have

2738
04:35:59,400 --> 04:36:01,080
that be as a public record.

2739
04:36:02,300 --> 04:36:10,710
Can we require you can you are you showing about making sure that smaller buildings do not

2740
04:36:10,710 --> 04:36:14,570
know I'm not with the first one that more or you step at the county manager Jones said that

2741
04:36:14,570 --> 04:36:15,890
That's already in the language.

2742
04:36:16,030 --> 04:36:16,770
So that one is next.

2743
04:36:16,910 --> 04:36:20,910
But the next one was that as a condition of exemption,

2744
04:36:21,250 --> 04:36:24,870
that the applicant has to certify what their expected

2745
04:36:24,870 --> 04:36:28,170
electrical load is, since that's something we can measure,

2746
04:36:28,350 --> 04:36:32,330
but we can ask them what their expected electrical load is.

2747
04:36:33,670 --> 04:36:35,650
As well as what type of cooling system type

2748
04:36:35,650 --> 04:36:38,830
they'll use in the fluid that they'll be using

2749
04:36:38,830 --> 04:36:41,970
in that cooling system, as well as what is their backup

2750
04:36:41,970 --> 04:36:42,950
generation fuel.

2751
04:36:44,910 --> 04:36:46,510
That's a different new construction.

2752
04:36:47,970 --> 04:36:49,290
That'll be for any.

2753
04:36:51,830 --> 04:36:52,030
What?

2754
04:36:52,350 --> 04:36:58,630
Let me before we get into discussion, we need to see if there's a second.

2755
04:37:01,320 --> 04:37:01,800
Well, you know what?

2756
04:37:01,920 --> 04:37:04,600
Let's do a discussion and see if we can get a second out of it.

2757
04:37:04,700 --> 04:37:06,560
Yeah, I just have a question.

2758
04:37:07,160 --> 04:37:10,900
So is the purpose just to be able to attain that information?

2759
04:37:11,340 --> 04:37:17,140
Is that the goal to actually get start understanding and getting that information?

2760
04:37:17,140 --> 04:37:26,180
And to be able to make sure that they are complying with whatever what the exemptions are that are created,

2761
04:37:26,400 --> 04:37:32,880
that they, we have in writing from them what type of cooling system they're using, they're back of generation.

2762
04:37:33,840 --> 04:37:37,920
And then the electric connected electrical load is not necessarily related to one of these exemptions,

2763
04:37:38,020 --> 04:37:42,040
but it'll help us in the research process for the UDO changes.

2764
04:37:42,040 --> 04:37:43,640
Okay, second.

2765
04:37:44,340 --> 04:37:44,740
Okay.

2766
04:37:48,730 --> 04:37:49,690
Emotion on the floor.

2767
04:37:50,070 --> 04:37:51,390
I've been probably seconded.

2768
04:37:51,430 --> 04:37:52,290
Any further discussion?

2769
04:37:54,270 --> 04:37:54,530
Oh, yes.

2770
04:37:54,710 --> 04:37:56,570
Chair, can we do that?

2771
04:37:57,290 --> 04:38:00,990
Can we place that restriction on an applicant?

2772
04:38:01,550 --> 04:38:06,660
Well, I'm going to let...

2773
04:38:06,660 --> 04:38:11,780
I don't think it's for an approval or anything like that.

2774
04:38:11,800 --> 04:38:14,500
I think it's for us to collect information about what they're doing.

2775
04:38:14,500 --> 04:38:22,080
Okay. I think if we would had to do with approval, that's something that would be in the league of stands but I'm not a lawyer.

2776
04:38:22,220 --> 04:38:27,540
The way that I named it was that it would be a condition of qualifying for the exemption.

2777
04:38:29,100 --> 04:38:30,240
So that is a program.

2778
04:38:33,600 --> 04:38:47,040
So I think that we can ask for the information, but I think logistically we would have a problem, particularly with the electrical load and making sure that they're actually using the amount.

2779
04:38:47,040 --> 04:38:52,300
that they are certifying, because I don't know how we would enforce that.

2780
04:38:53,120 --> 04:38:59,080
Particularly since we have no enforcement powers over the electrical usage,

2781
04:38:59,260 --> 04:39:01,540
I'm not the expert in that field,

2782
04:39:01,900 --> 04:39:04,600
but I think that that would be our biggest issue,

2783
04:39:04,700 --> 04:39:09,200
because if they certify that their electrical usage is a certain level,

2784
04:39:09,420 --> 04:39:11,800
and then it's not, then what?

2785
04:39:12,680 --> 04:39:16,840
So, I see that as being the bigger problem there.

2786
04:39:17,740 --> 04:39:20,960
I don't know if Sarah, that's all right.

2787
04:39:21,340 --> 04:39:24,600
Okay, thank you, Sarah. Yeah. I see that as the problem.

2788
04:39:25,780 --> 04:39:28,980
So, but if we had the condition that they have to

2789
04:39:30,160 --> 04:39:33,160
certify in writing that that's what their expected is,

2790
04:39:35,420 --> 04:39:37,880
we may not be able to regulate it, but we get in writing

2791
04:39:37,880 --> 04:39:42,000
what their expecting, because it now also provides transparency for us

2792
04:39:42,000 --> 04:39:44,980
And for the community of one, this data center comes in.

2793
04:39:45,580 --> 04:39:48,720
What their expected electricity load is.

2794
04:39:49,120 --> 04:39:51,940
And then as we continue to define and do the research,

2795
04:39:52,160 --> 04:39:54,380
we can use that information about, well,

2796
04:39:54,480 --> 04:39:57,440
this is the size of a data center that's come to Durham.

2797
04:39:58,240 --> 04:39:59,960
There are square footage, and this is what-

2798
04:40:00,000 --> 04:40:11,420
What they have expected? I would say though that since we will be using it as a condition, then that's where it starts to become a little difficult.

2799
04:40:11,700 --> 04:40:17,040
The condition is then providing that certification of the putting it in writing.

2800
04:40:19,280 --> 04:40:30,660
But what happens if there's telling you what they expect, but then what happens if it's above what they've told us, what's the, what would be the next step there?

2801
04:40:30,960 --> 04:40:42,200
Well, for the electrical load piece, I think we know that we don't have a way of measuring it, but to have them certifying that that's what they expect to use, at least gives us one data point.

2802
04:40:42,200 --> 04:40:42,880
Well,

2803
04:40:44,940 --> 04:40:52,340
not to, you know, believe her, but I guess my question would be that they could pretty much tell us anything.

2804
04:40:53,120 --> 04:40:59,680
I mean, they could tell you what they expect and that may very well be what they expect,

2805
04:40:59,960 --> 04:41:05,400
but maybe not, maybe they're lowering it just to make it sound better, but they know that it would be more.

2806
04:41:06,320 --> 04:41:09,180
And there's really nothing we can do after that.

2807
04:41:10,540 --> 04:41:11,860
But just my thought.

2808
04:41:11,860 --> 04:41:16,240
No, no, no, I didn't send that idea that I think for me the reason I brought it forward is because

2809
04:41:17,480 --> 04:41:22,200
because there isn't a way for us to get that information in the other way,

2810
04:41:22,700 --> 04:41:27,000
something is better than nothing, to get this data from them.

2811
04:41:28,040 --> 04:41:34,620
I actually support that, I support that even though there's not really an enforcement mechanism,

2812
04:41:36,440 --> 04:41:49,240
But a data point, like you said, if they're now the community knows, now we know like what their, what their starting point is was far as they're expected to use it.

2813
04:41:49,360 --> 04:41:54,620
I actually support, you know, requesting that or require that.

2814
04:41:55,280 --> 04:42:01,260
You continue forward, but no one that does not really enforce it, making this right now.

2815
04:42:01,260 --> 04:42:02,040
Right now,

2816
04:42:05,470 --> 04:42:09,330
so there's a motion on the floor. There's been probably second it any further discussion

2817
04:42:10,390 --> 04:42:12,910
All the favorites the eye

2818
04:42:12,910 --> 04:42:21,030
All the pose same time I pose. Okay, and it passes for one

2819
04:42:21,810 --> 04:42:23,890
Okay, and my last

2820
04:42:24,510 --> 04:42:33,510
Motion is moving that the plan of action that's in section six that we more were like definitively expressed

2821
04:42:33,510 --> 04:42:39,670
including a study of relationship between facility floor area and electrical load.

2822
04:42:40,410 --> 04:42:48,650
The water and energy trade-offs of closed loop and other cooling technologies, including the disclosure of the fluids that they're using.

2823
04:42:49,550 --> 04:42:57,510
And the emission profiles of non-diesel backup generators and an aggregation of like phasing standards that

2824
04:42:58,170 --> 04:43:05,610
data centers may use, and that the staff report to the board on these items before we have our

2825
04:43:06,890 --> 04:43:08,830
UDO language presented to us.

2826
04:43:16,860 --> 04:43:19,180
So, I just asked a clarifier for your question.

2827
04:43:19,640 --> 04:43:25,300
Maybe Sarah, if you could come up, if you feel like that's all stuff that you all can do.

2828
04:43:25,580 --> 04:43:27,900
All right, so this, we're heading doors midnight.

2829
04:43:28,180 --> 04:43:29,980
Let's wrap it up because I don't want another moment.

2830
04:43:29,980 --> 04:43:38,060
All right, I just don't want to the staff or the ones who are going to have to do this, I want to make sure that it makes sense to them. That's all.

2831
04:43:45,560 --> 04:43:53,400
I think we can certainly research those, just understand that we will be limited by whatever data we may or may not be able to get.

2832
04:43:54,460 --> 04:44:01,200
So maybe some of the answers to that to some of those might be not as robust as we would like.

2833
04:44:04,460 --> 04:44:11,800
And my purpose of that motion is to have it more explicitly written the direction to staff about the research we want to get back.

2834
04:44:12,240 --> 04:44:12,520
Second.

2835
04:44:15,640 --> 04:44:19,740
There's been probably moved and seconded a very long motion.

2836
04:44:20,640 --> 04:44:22,180
We'll have to go back on the.

2837
04:44:22,220 --> 04:44:23,360
I'll send it to a clear point.

2838
04:44:23,900 --> 04:44:29,460
We'll have to listen to that again on video to get all of it.

2839
04:44:31,480 --> 04:44:32,360
Any further discussion?

2840
04:44:33,620 --> 04:44:35,220
All right, all the favour say hi.

2841
04:44:35,760 --> 04:44:36,200
All right.

2842
04:44:36,400 --> 04:44:38,020
All the polish, please use the same sign.

2843
04:44:38,400 --> 04:44:39,280
Pass it unanimously.

2844
04:44:40,640 --> 04:44:40,700
Okay.

2845
04:44:43,230 --> 04:44:44,170
We got the wrong motions.

2846
04:44:45,030 --> 04:44:45,190
Okay.

2847
04:44:45,350 --> 04:44:48,250
So those were adjustments to the moratorium.

2848
04:44:49,350 --> 04:44:49,650
All right.

2849
04:44:51,130 --> 04:44:52,090
Thank you for those motions.

2850
04:44:53,030 --> 04:44:53,290
All right.

2851
04:44:55,800 --> 04:44:57,500
So that's it.

2852
04:44:58,940 --> 04:44:59,960
That's it for the...

2853
04:45:00,110 --> 04:45:10,050
Public hearing, right? Okay. All right. So we've gotten through that. The next item on agenda is the boards and commissions, right?

2854
04:45:10,050 --> 04:45:13,470
I think the overall moratorium needs to be voted on as amended.

2855
04:45:14,490 --> 04:45:29,970
As amended. Okay. All right. Okay. So I'll accept the motion to approve the moratorium to include the amended pieces from the motions we just voted on.

2856
04:45:30,110 --> 04:45:32,530
from the votes that we just took,

2857
04:45:37,290 --> 04:45:41,550
with all of the remaining provisions as presented.

2858
04:45:42,530 --> 04:45:45,670
Okay. All right. I'll accept the motion.

2859
04:45:47,910 --> 04:45:48,250
Second.

2860
04:45:49,590 --> 04:45:51,250
All right. Wait, we need a first.

2861
04:45:52,750 --> 04:45:55,710
That's my motion. Oh, and you know what, we need a some move.

2862
04:45:56,190 --> 04:45:59,410
Okay. Second. All right. So we can move a second that we

2863
04:45:59,410 --> 04:46:12,510
We approve the moratorium with the voted on changes keeping in place the remaining provisions.

2864
04:46:13,910 --> 04:46:14,610
Any further discussion?

2865
04:46:15,890 --> 04:46:17,010
All in favor say aye.

2866
04:46:17,810 --> 04:46:18,070
Aye.

2867
04:46:18,290 --> 04:46:18,810
All opposed?

2868
04:46:19,070 --> 04:46:19,990
Please do the same sign.

2869
04:46:20,050 --> 04:46:20,350
Aye.

2870
04:46:24,010 --> 04:46:24,670
You opposed?

2871
04:46:25,150 --> 04:46:25,330
Okay.

2872
04:46:26,130 --> 04:46:26,830
All right.

2873
04:46:26,930 --> 04:46:27,190
Okay.

2874
04:46:27,970 --> 04:46:29,530
It passes for the one.

2875
04:46:39,740 --> 04:46:41,220
So now we move on.

2876
04:46:41,220 --> 04:46:43,580
And then it's the Board's and Commission's.

2877
04:46:56,060 --> 04:46:58,780
Please leave. Please leave.

2878
04:47:30,840 --> 04:47:33,260
All right. Let's see the Board's and Commission's.

2879
04:47:33,580 --> 04:47:35,840
Okay. So we have.

2880
04:47:36,900 --> 04:47:42,560
The Durham Wake County's Research and Production Service District Advisory Committee.

2881
04:47:42,580 --> 04:47:51,020
We had three vacant positions. The Board has selected Gina Anderson, Randy Solz, and Sarah Gaskell for those positions.

2882
04:47:51,020 --> 04:48:03,260
We have the opioids settlement advisory committee. We had one vacant position and the board has selected Elijah Bayes Moore for that position. Congratulations to all that work point up.

2883
04:48:04,980 --> 04:48:08,600
All right. Thank you very much. Last item on our agenda is adjournment.

2884
04:48:08,940 --> 04:48:10,380
I'll accept the motion to adjourn.

2885
04:48:10,960 --> 04:48:11,560
So move second.

2886
04:48:12,060 --> 04:48:16,020
It's been moving probably second. We adjourn. All in favor say aye.

2887
04:48:16,520 --> 04:48:20,100
Aye. All opposed. We are adjourn. Thank you.