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For 23rd meeting of the Durham Plain Bush, I'll come to order. We'll start with a roll call, Peter, Peter Houd, Peyton McManus, Michael Barrett, town planner.

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Rob Sullivan cannot make it, and I believe I'm a Hollander, also cannot make it.

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and Heather Grant as well, and Gary.

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Oh, and Gary.

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Gary?

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Paul Rasmussen.

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Sally Tobias.

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Mike Lerman.

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Jill, you understand?

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All right.

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So Mike Lerman will be seated as the council rep.

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And Jillian Smith will take Rob Sullivan's seat.

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And Peter, if we don't have Richard,

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your original Richard shows.

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Actually, Peter, you're Gary.

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Okay,

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and I need to update, hold on while I update my notes here.

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There we are.

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Approval the agenda.

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It looks good to me.

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Anybody else?

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I move a window.

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Second.

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On favor.

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Oh, are there any planning board members on Zoom?

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Nope.

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All right.

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Just in case.

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town planners report.

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We're meeting next week, September 30th, as one of the months when there are five Wednesdays,

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and the items on the agenda poll consented to my putting together sort of my last

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to raw miscellaneous zoning changes.

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So I'll have a document for you to look at, which is mostly smaller things, but suggest

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to change us all through the zoning ordinance.

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And then the second item on the agenda

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will be the continued discussion of downtown adjacent zoning.

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Our October meetings are the 14th and the 28th,

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and then we're having one meeting in November

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and one on December, because of the holidays.

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The board usually has just one meeting in those months.

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And I think we did tell you about our prospective new town plan

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Matti Diano, who the council was going to hear her vote on her appointment at the meeting

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last week, and forks on there wasn't a quorum at the council meeting, so that's back

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on the agenda for the 28th.

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I'm confident that the council will approve it, but it's not official until that happens,

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But she's tentatively starting work pending the council's action on Monday, October 5th.

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So that's in less than two weeks.

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And we will have about two months overlap for me to train her and orient her.

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And then I'm certainly going to be available after I retire on November 30th to help

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in any way her or anybody.

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As I'm a Durham resident, I'm only 20 minutes walk away.

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And Maddie will be able to join us for the October and the November meetings as well.

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And that's it.

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All right.

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Any questions, comments, or Mr. Bernt?

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Reports from board members who serve on other committees.

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I do have something that's initially related.

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of the state has just opened up another grant program for type 2 EV charges, charging infrastructure

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at travel and tourism oriented locations across New Hampshire.

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So if anybody has any thoughts about a place in town that might qualify, let the energy

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committee know.

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Yes, Jackson Rink, while they're redoing everything.

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Jackson Rink.

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All right.

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Let me, um, visitors transit lots of people going by.

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Let me try by reporting.

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Excellent rank for, uh, you tell them all would be good too.

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I think it's hard to witness here.

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I think a wagon hill.

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That's good.

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I think a wagon hill is the only place I was thinking of, but real sleep.

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All right.

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Thank you.

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And any other committee reports

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that town council did not have a forum so did not conduct any official business at the last meeting.

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But we did have a nice chat.

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I gave a the planning board report.

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Since they didn't have to vote on it, they accepted it.

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So on the town council, what's the status of the five story downtown?

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That was continued. Well wait, we didn't have the quorum with the last meeting, so that was continued to the 28th.

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The 28th of September.

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Okay.

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Thank you.

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All right, review of old minutes of August 12th.

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I don't have anything.

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I gave Michael some small corrections. I assume they're in this.

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They will not, but they will be. All the ones that are straightforward.

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Then I move where you adopt these as presented.

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Second.

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Second.

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Anyone else?

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On favour of acceptance.

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Aye.

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Aye.

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Opposed.

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All right.

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Public comment.

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Public comments.

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anyone here with public comments?

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We'll move on to our next item, Mr. Barry? No, you're not

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Mr. Barry. Oh, you're, oh, you're, he actually is. I thought you were, you know, you're just

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like our fire department folks. Okay. And I thought, so I thought you're here for the CIP. Okay.

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Public hearing for 73, Piscatico Road subdivision, formal evocation for a three-lot subdivision

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of 20 acres at Lott 73, the Scatical Road,

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construction of new private road to access lots.

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Will you go to the steam property owner,

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Chris Barry of Barry Servane,

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an engineering surveyor, Matt P209,

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Lott 42 in a residence coastal district.

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And you are a different Mr. Barry.

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That is correct.

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Joe Barry, Barry Servane.

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Chris couldn't make it his might,

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so he asked me to step in from.

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I know you guys have seen this project

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So I guess if you want to let me know, should I start with the waivers or how was it left off last time?

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Actually, the waivers is what I have my question mark next to.

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I wanted to make sure that the list of waivers was complete.

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Right, it's only the above ground for the above ground utilities in the first section of the site.

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So, for item 19, we have numerous requirements of road regulation, oh, I'm sorry, plus all the

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waivers for the road, right, as well as the requirement to vary existing overhead electric

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clients.

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And so, is that, is item 19 correct as written, oh, yes, okay, then yes, please, let's go over

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the waivers first.

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Okay, one by one, they're going to, 10 of them are all for the road.

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You're going to wrap them all into one, or yeah.

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Okay, so wait, number one is to the road regulation section four item 4.02 to have minimum 20 foot wide pavement.

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The second one is road regulation section four item 4.03 shoulder width.

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The third one is item 4.07 shoulder base core steps,

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the fourth is item 4.08 base and top

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core spaving requirements, number 5 is 4.09 gravel shoulder required.

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Let me pose for you.

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So basically the road is going to stay as it is at this point.

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So they're just in driveway.

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They don't want to have to meet the road standards impact wetland buffers, potentially

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Well, and the fire department, they looked over this, they don't have any issues.

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They, yeah, none of the departments had concern.

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No issues for many other departments.

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All right.

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Does anybody on the Plainy Board have questions about these road waivers?

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All right.

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We're good with the road waivers.

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No.

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Now, the...

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Overhead electric lines.

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And again, we basically just want to keep the site the way it is.

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Correct.

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Yeah, this is an existing utility pole just past I believe it's pronounced near my air driveway

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And it goes overhead from the square to car road to that utility pole and then underground at the rest of the site

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And they want to leave it as is

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and not run underground from the road

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And yes, like one question going back to the road. Okay, I'm sorry, but I remembered what at the site walk

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there was some discussion about making a wide spot in the road for cars and vehicles to pass.

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That was, and that just got let go or it was being sent to the fire department for review.

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All right.

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And that was amazing to be okay.

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Okay.

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All right.

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Thank you.

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Okay.

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So yeah, through the overhead electric, they want to leave this side as is.

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and not disturb the overhead power going to the site or the abutting lot in that's the reason why.

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And that's the final waiver.

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Right.

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And so the main reason for that is that that pulse actually servicing an adjacent property that's not part of the subdivision.

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And changing it to underground from the road would require giving them, making a headache for that.

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What do people think?

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I mean, all the net new will be underground, right?

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It's just going to use that existing above ground, and then you're going to come down,

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and then the rest is going to be run underground.

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Correct.

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So from that poll, everything that's existing is underground,

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and if they were to build a new structure, they would go underground as well.

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So we need to approve these waivers, correct?

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Like, yeah, you can approve them separately or as part of the whole thing.

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It's wrapped into it.

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It's wrapped into it very good.

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I wanted to clarify that.

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Let's see.

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Then

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we need to hold a public hearing, don't we?

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We haven't, right? This is not a continued public hearing. We start the public hearing tonight.

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Right. Yeah. All right.

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You want a motion built of a public hearing?

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I'm short. So moved.

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Second.

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Second, all in favor?

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Hi.

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Hi.

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All right. Is there anyone here for the public who'd like to speak?

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My name is Jack Rosenberg, and I'm about 50 directly adjacent to the proposed new lot

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why this issue matters to my family.

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Before moving to Durham, we lived in Massachusetts

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and had a difficult experience with a tear down

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and rebuilt immediately next door to us.

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The existing houses were placed

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with a new house built essentially

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to the setback limit.

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A significant tree between the houses was removed

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and windows in the new house ended up

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directly aligned with windows and ours.

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There was always a very substantial

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and permanent loss of privacy.

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That experience directly influenced our move to Durham.

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One of the things we value about this community

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is it's what a character mature trees houses

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with separation from another

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development that generally feels integrated to the landscape.

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President maximizing every available setback. That's why the proposed garage slot concerns me. I understand that the subdivision

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would create a separate billable residential lot directly beside our property. I'm not objecting to the fact that a house may

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eventually be built there. What concerns me is approving that bill that a lot now without knowing where the future

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houses anticipated to go and without addressing what happens to the substantial existing vegetation between that lot and ours.

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Once those trees are removed and the house is built, there is no practical way to restore

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the privacy of the Incist today.

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I spoke with my club about this, my understanding is that the town's position is that the

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planning board can not simply impose a permanent no buffer along our property line and the

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landscaping provisions do not apply here.

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Suggested, I raised the issue with the board and asked the property owner whether he would

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agree voluntarily to a buffer that could then be recording.

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I would very much like to do that.

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The struggle since not here, but I would ask whether he would agree to preserve a reasonable

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of vegetated buffer along with a lot of 50 boundary

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and have that protection recorded

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in this part of the subdivision.

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I'm not asking for an area in which no tree

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could ever be touched with reasonable restriction,

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could allow removal of dead or hazardous trees,

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management of invasive species,

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necessary utility work while preserving

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the basic screening function and existing vegetation.

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I'd also like to raise one related question

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about Article 22 of the zoning ordinance.

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Section 175-114 says that the landscaping article

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applies to subdivisions where a new street is involved.

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And the town zone materials described me my redrives a new private road and described these

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existing driveways being proposed for uses that new private road.

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Article 22 also speaks about retaining healthy forest cover and contemplates landscaping

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and reforestation plants that can provide screens and buffer strips and critical locations.

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I understand the town police that's provisions to not apply here because the physical driveway

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always already exists.

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I don't want to turn tonight's hearing to a legal argument about that interpretation,

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but I'd appreciate clarification of its basis.

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More importantly, whether the protection comes from Article 22

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or through a voluntary agreement with the applicant,

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I think the underlying planning objectives, the same,

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preserving the wooded character of the area

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and addressing a foreseeable impact of creating a new residential building lot.

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I also think it would be helpful for the applicants

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to show where a future house on this lot is reasonably anticipated to be located.

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The subdivision regulations for step design process,

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calls for a potential building site to be tentatively located

252
00:17:17,420 --> 00:17:19,720
before streets and lot lines are finalized.

253
00:17:20,460 --> 00:17:21,940
I'm not suggesting the owners should be necessarily

254
00:17:21,940 --> 00:17:23,760
be permanently bound to one exact footprint,

255
00:17:23,860 --> 00:17:25,500
but without even a tentative building location,

256
00:17:26,140 --> 00:17:28,000
it's difficult for the board or the above to understand

257
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,240
how this new lot may actually affect the neighboring properties.

258
00:17:31,060 --> 00:17:33,000
My concern is that these questions are left entirely

259
00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,460
until later, they may not be another meaningful opportunity

260
00:17:35,460 --> 00:17:36,700
to address them.

261
00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:38,560
Once the subdivisions recorded,

262
00:17:38,660 --> 00:17:40,380
another wise conforming single family house

263
00:17:40,380 --> 00:17:42,080
may proceed through the building permit process

264
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:43,840
without returning to the planning way.

265
00:17:45,020 --> 00:17:46,240
So I'm asking for three things.

266
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:50,480
first clarification of weather article 22 applies, and if the town believes it does not,

267
00:17:50,540 --> 00:17:55,000
the basis for that interpretation. Second, identification of at least a tentative future building

268
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:59,480
location on the garage lots, so that its impacts can be understood now. And third and most importantly,

269
00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:03,140
I'm asking the applicant to agree to a reasonable recorded vegetative buffer along our common

270
00:18:03,140 --> 00:18:07,140
boundary with appropriate exceptions, so the existing screening and willing character of this

271
00:18:07,140 --> 00:18:11,540
part of Durham are not unnecessarily lost. I think that would allow the property to be developed

272
00:18:11,540 --> 00:18:15,740
for also providing some predictability and reasonable protection for the existing neighborhood. Thank you.

273
00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:26,360
All right, well, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I missed your name in the very beginning, I apologize.

274
00:18:26,380 --> 00:18:39,340
I'm sorry, Jeff Rosenberger, and in terms of in relation to the lot, which exact property are you on?

275
00:18:41,130 --> 00:18:51,730
So, do you see where the proposed new line between the rear house and the one, the garage?

276
00:18:52,250 --> 00:18:53,570
So, you're on share water.

277
00:18:54,130 --> 00:18:59,470
And so, you back up your lot, back from share water, back up onto the back of that.

278
00:18:59,590 --> 00:19:02,310
Yeah, sure, share water is over here.

279
00:19:07,050 --> 00:19:11,110
And I'm looking at it, and I'm looking at it.

280
00:19:12,570 --> 00:19:18,350
It looks like you're only the corners meet between you and the garage lot.

281
00:19:21,090 --> 00:19:27,950
It's more like it's not just the corner, there's a battery.

282
00:19:33,490 --> 00:19:34,770
Yeah, sir.

283
00:19:34,990 --> 00:19:35,950
Can you take the microphone?

284
00:19:36,270 --> 00:19:38,010
It won't reach, it won't reach.

285
00:19:38,010 --> 00:19:42,390
I see that, but that property is

286
00:19:45,500 --> 00:19:51,120
that's for the existing house is going to be a butting your rear line.

287
00:19:52,860 --> 00:19:55,240
That's not what I see on the map.

288
00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,420
Where the garage is?

289
00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:02,780
Yeah, it's the lot that the existing garage is on that it butts my property.

290
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:05,920
Right, so this is Michael.

291
00:20:06,940 --> 00:20:10,340
Right, that's the new proposed line, right?

292
00:20:10,340 --> 00:20:14,740
I think that's the soil line.

293
00:20:15,620 --> 00:20:17,380
Let me.

294
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:21,880
So we're going to have to show us the new property line.

295
00:20:22,260 --> 00:20:22,580
She too.

296
00:20:23,180 --> 00:20:23,780
She too.

297
00:20:24,740 --> 00:20:25,940
So it does extend further off.

298
00:20:26,260 --> 00:20:26,300
All right.

299
00:20:26,620 --> 00:20:27,220
Very good.

300
00:20:27,460 --> 00:20:28,540
Very good.

301
00:20:35,620 --> 00:20:36,220
And

302
00:20:38,660 --> 00:20:39,260
right.

303
00:20:39,900 --> 00:20:40,340
So the.

304
00:20:46,380 --> 00:20:47,600
Do do do.

305
00:20:55,260 --> 00:20:55,700
It's there.

306
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:56,860
Or it's there.

307
00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:57,460
So she.

308
00:20:57,540 --> 00:20:59,560
She shows the 50 foot setbacks.

309
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:04,700
It shows the 50-foot setbacks which effectively creates two potential areas for a house.

310
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:14,180
There's the one back there, where the garage is now, and then there's one down near on the other side of the wetland, at the corner.

311
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:24,540
So those do, do, do, do,

312
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:28,040
do.

313
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:32,660
And that's what I would consider to be a potential field, you know, you build a

314
00:21:32,660 --> 00:21:33,200
hilarious,

315
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:39,560
with regards to that five and a half acre lot.

316
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:51,160
Now, we put sheet two up on the screen, maybe, so that, and maybe even two.

317
00:21:51,540 --> 00:21:54,480
Yeah, yeah, we're discussing Mr.

318
00:21:57,380 --> 00:21:59,640
Rosenberg and see it as well as what I'm talking about.

319
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:01,280
Yeah, so this is sheet two.

320
00:22:01,620 --> 00:22:02,560
All right.

321
00:22:02,580 --> 00:22:02,840
Yep.

322
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:06,780
So in terms of the...

323
00:22:06,780 --> 00:22:08,000
I think that will be nice.

324
00:22:08,020 --> 00:22:08,840
I think that will be nice.

325
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:10,080
Just to let us see the whole lot.

326
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:11,400
Yeah, so you can see the whole lot.

327
00:22:12,460 --> 00:22:12,920
All right, OK.

328
00:22:13,500 --> 00:22:18,560
So this view shows the two potential areas where a housing house

329
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:19,700
could be built.

330
00:22:23,060 --> 00:22:28,120
And we generally do that to ensure that setbacks and such

331
00:22:28,120 --> 00:22:29,980
are capable of being...

332
00:22:40,960 --> 00:23:00,480
So we have on sheet three, which is up on the screen now. We shall propose well location, just down hill towards Piscate Corps, road at the garage, and we've done two test pits, showing suitable soils for a septic system.

333
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:07,580
That's not saying that it has to go there, but that's the biggest area to build and most likely that

334
00:23:07,580 --> 00:23:13,480
house would be uphill to have the septic go-gravity to a reaching area.

335
00:23:14,700 --> 00:23:19,480
Yeah, that's the stoic that's the soil line cutting through a little not the long way.

336
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,940
Which direction, you said uphill, but I can't read that.

337
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:40,160
So there's a little mound, so the garage sits on a little knob, and so they can go uphill, slightly towards the existing house on not 42.

338
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,420
So there's a couple different places they could build.

339
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,200
They could add to the existing garage.

340
00:23:47,260 --> 00:23:52,020
It's all within the setbacks, and they could make the sewer work with the test pitch shown.

341
00:23:54,420 --> 00:24:02,720
So, it would most likely be either towards the existing house, or towards the garage, and not towards the back.

342
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,540
Like, am I about to go online, or it would.

343
00:24:06,540 --> 00:24:07,460
It would.

344
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:12,100
It's hard just, it would be unlikely.

345
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:14,980
It's just field could go elsewhere, too.

346
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:16,660
The leech field could go elsewhere.

347
00:24:16,780 --> 00:24:21,800
If it could go down, it could probably slide down the hill and build it up a little bit if they wanted to.

348
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:26,220
correct the house. We did two test pits to prove for the subdivision that it's

349
00:24:26,220 --> 00:24:31,760
suitable soils. They could put the septic closer to a lot of 42's house and

350
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,760
build right behind the garage. They could build a house right where it says

351
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:41,860
proposed for a leaching area. So there's a pretty substantial building envelope

352
00:24:41,860 --> 00:24:46,780
there and with no plans to build at the moment it's hard to say this is where the house

353
00:24:46,780 --> 00:24:47,480
So we're going to go

354
00:24:57,950 --> 00:24:59,770
and thought to people.

355
00:25:00,710 --> 00:25:04,130
So Michael, that's Michael Barron.

356
00:25:05,470 --> 00:25:08,250
Just refreshes all or particularly at least me anyway,

357
00:25:08,770 --> 00:25:11,710
with regard to the 50 foot setback there.

358
00:25:11,990 --> 00:25:13,770
What are the provisions in terms of maintaining

359
00:25:14,230 --> 00:25:15,810
any vegetative buffer that's there now?

360
00:25:15,810 --> 00:25:16,650
No, there's none.

361
00:25:16,890 --> 00:25:18,890
It's not only a setback from structures.

362
00:25:23,090 --> 00:25:25,050
And areas is vegetated now.

363
00:25:25,170 --> 00:25:25,410
Yeah.

364
00:25:25,710 --> 00:25:26,190
Where's that here?

365
00:25:27,690 --> 00:25:28,530
There's lots of trees.

366
00:25:28,530 --> 00:25:35,530
Yeah, I have the plan overlaid on a satellite photo if it's something that

367
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:39,740
existing garage that's there.

368
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:48,100
Can you see that from your property right now right now now in the winter. Yes, right when the leaves drop. Yes, but yeah

369
00:25:48,100 --> 00:25:55,040
I didn't know is there or are the existing house for that matter until the first one's over here. Yeah

370
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,260
at least, Travis, like, where's the driveway for that?

371
00:26:10,820 --> 00:26:13,600
You're not, you haven't really had discussions

372
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,660
with the owner regarding a vegetative buffer.

373
00:26:17,540 --> 00:26:20,620
No, this is the first time it's come up.

374
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,520
I don't want to necessarily agree to leaving the buffer,

375
00:26:27,700 --> 00:26:29,780
but I assume anyone who builds here also

376
00:26:29,780 --> 00:26:32,240
doesn't want to look at the back of Mr. Rosenberg's house.

377
00:26:32,940 --> 00:26:36,080
People moved to Durham for the natural state

378
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:41,600
the land. So no one, I don't foresee someone building a house there, clear-cutting the

379
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:46,420
lot to look into his backyard. That's just the way I see it.

380
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:54,400
Yeah, it's not, I would agree with you, that building what there in that kind of middle area,

381
00:26:55,940 --> 00:27:01,300
you would see it, but you already see the other existing homes for other existing buildings,

382
00:27:01,300 --> 00:27:12,120
But that vegetation it would be highly unlikely and not very logical for somebody to take it down in it great expense to I mean they couldn't just as I'll be clear cut it, but

383
00:27:12,620 --> 00:27:18,120
How would we deal it? There's no way we can guarantee that and

384
00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:19,000
and even

385
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:24,880
I mean what is the what is the abilities of the owner of

386
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:26,760
a lot to

387
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:30,680
that. This falls into that.

388
00:27:33,710 --> 00:27:38,850
The applicant, if Mr. Goldstein, the owner, agreed to, he could

389
00:27:38,850 --> 00:27:42,910
agree to anything, as part of something. The owner can make that a condition. The planning

390
00:27:42,910 --> 00:27:51,470
board cannot require this. That becomes a question whether or not the owner would want to

391
00:27:51,470 --> 00:27:57,070
do that on their own, which they could also simply do within the deed.

392
00:27:57,470 --> 00:27:57,590
Yeah.

393
00:28:00,750 --> 00:28:05,810
And in fact, it probably is stronger if it's done the other deed.

394
00:28:09,970 --> 00:28:18,890
But it goes back to that statement of, you know, we can't buffer single family houses from single family houses.

395
00:28:19,970 --> 00:28:24,530
That's not within, as much as it sounds like,

396
00:28:24,530 --> 00:28:29,750
we should be able to have the authority for that, we don't.

397
00:28:30,110 --> 00:28:37,310
So my only point on that regard is whether the article 22 of the zoning ordinance.

398
00:28:37,590 --> 00:28:40,330
I was going to move on to that next.

399
00:28:41,130 --> 00:28:48,510
So with regards to the private road being a new road.

400
00:28:48,510 --> 00:28:56,170
But in Article 22, that applies only to the common open space that a conservation is something to use.

401
00:28:56,590 --> 00:28:59,410
But there's landscaping provisions there, but they don't apply to a conventional.

402
00:28:59,910 --> 00:29:00,170
Okay.

403
00:29:00,510 --> 00:29:01,090
Single family line.

404
00:29:01,230 --> 00:29:03,090
So those are for conservation subdivision.

405
00:29:03,330 --> 00:29:04,190
That's a different group.

406
00:29:04,550 --> 00:29:05,330
That's not the article.

407
00:29:05,670 --> 00:29:07,630
It doesn't say that.

408
00:29:20,810 --> 00:29:23,650
I'm fully do it up as well.

409
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:29,720
It says, this is the landscaping.

410
00:29:36,110 --> 00:29:37,190
It's a speedy surgery.

411
00:30:00,110 --> 00:30:10,350
Yeah, I mean, all of it, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a common area as you, it would not be legal to impose these things on individual single family laws.

412
00:30:11,410 --> 00:30:16,390
But it's like, can we impose on something land, trees of special interests?

413
00:30:16,730 --> 00:30:25,290
I mean, theoretically you could if there was, if there was, for example, trees of special number four trees of special interest,

414
00:30:30,700 --> 00:30:37,200
For example, if there was a great tree on an individual lot, and you could specify that that tree be protected.

415
00:30:41,420 --> 00:30:48,720
If there were, as part of a subdivision, if you identify specific resources on individual lots,

416
00:30:50,060 --> 00:30:59,160
stone walls, archaeological resources, you could require that specify those be preserved on individual lots.

417
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:09,040
But not, you know, broader natural areas be preserved, is wooded areas.

418
00:31:10,820 --> 00:31:13,700
Yeah, I understand where Mr. Rosenberger is.

419
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:19,400
Rosenberger is confused because the opening paragraph

420
00:31:22,420 --> 00:31:24,840
does blend itself to be misinterpreted.

421
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:26,440
It does, you know,

422
00:31:33,190 --> 00:31:36,390
that's one of the things I'm going to show you next week if revisions.

423
00:31:36,690 --> 00:31:38,130
It's kind of clean this up.

424
00:31:38,610 --> 00:31:39,550
All right.

425
00:31:40,730 --> 00:31:43,530
So I'm a procedural question for Michael, please.

426
00:31:45,170 --> 00:31:54,610
If Mr. Rosenberger wanted to contact the current owner and talk about creating some sort of buffer that might be recorded in a deed,

427
00:31:54,610 --> 00:32:04,710
is that if the applicant now was agreeable to that, could that become a part of the condition

428
00:32:04,710 --> 00:32:05,330
of the variance?

429
00:32:05,970 --> 00:32:06,270
Yeah.

430
00:32:06,370 --> 00:32:11,970
I would suggest including a condition on this that, you know, I would suggest approving it

431
00:32:11,970 --> 00:32:18,070
if there's no significant concerns and including a condition on here under plan modifications

432
00:32:18,070 --> 00:32:26,030
that in the event that this gentleman works out some arrangement with the property owner

433
00:32:26,030 --> 00:32:30,470
and the property owner is willing to include that as a condition of approval.

434
00:32:30,950 --> 00:32:33,810
That will be identified on the final plans.

435
00:32:35,290 --> 00:32:37,530
So that might be an option before you to pursue.

436
00:32:38,430 --> 00:32:38,590
Yeah.

437
00:32:38,810 --> 00:32:43,270
If you approve the plans with the condition of maybe doing that in the future?

438
00:32:43,270 --> 00:32:49,910
that? No, but I was asking the question as a procedural question is if you spoke with the current owner

439
00:32:49,910 --> 00:32:58,070
of the applicant and he was agreeable to put in some sort of buffer for 30 feet or whatever

440
00:32:58,070 --> 00:33:04,810
along the property line near your house, that could be conveyed to the planning board by the applicant

441
00:33:05,350 --> 00:33:13,250
and that could become then a condition of the variance being granted in the future, if I

442
00:33:13,250 --> 00:33:17,070
application tonight and include that contingent condition.

443
00:33:17,890 --> 00:33:24,070
So, say you approve it tonight and in a week or two or a month, Mr. Goldstein tells

444
00:33:24,070 --> 00:33:29,550
me, I'm okay with a 50 foot non-witted buffer, I'm okay with that being a condition.

445
00:33:30,410 --> 00:33:34,030
Then Mr. Barry includes it on the recorded plans.

446
00:33:36,250 --> 00:33:40,310
But if he says, no, then he never gets back to you.

447
00:33:40,970 --> 00:33:44,730
We have a contingent and we don't know what is nothing.

448
00:33:46,510 --> 00:33:48,550
Somebody who picks us up five years from now,

449
00:33:48,750 --> 00:33:52,090
there's nothing for the person to know what the answer was there.

450
00:33:52,270 --> 00:33:57,910
So you could give it like a time of month if nothing is agreed to,

451
00:33:57,970 --> 00:33:59,670
within say a month after approval.

452
00:33:59,670 --> 00:34:05,950
that it, you know, nothing happens. It just goes away because we can't require it. No. No.

453
00:34:06,670 --> 00:34:09,830
But I know Mr. Goldstein. I mean, I'm sure he would give us an answer.

454
00:34:14,010 --> 00:34:18,450
So does that mean we would take action on it tonight? Or we would take action on it tonight?

455
00:34:19,090 --> 00:34:27,030
There would be this effectively a contingent, a precedent condition of Mr. Goldstein

456
00:34:27,030 --> 00:34:30,590
getting back to us telling us whether or not there's going to be a buffer.

457
00:34:30,590 --> 00:34:36,810
Yeah, I mean, he could just tell me, and I would let Mr. Barry know on your final plans, show

458
00:34:36,810 --> 00:34:40,430
the spuffer or not, you know, the way they are.

459
00:34:40,830 --> 00:34:42,250
So it's pretty, it's pretty soon.

460
00:34:42,990 --> 00:34:50,670
So you would, in the warning, you would say, if that arrangement does happen that said situations

461
00:34:50,670 --> 00:34:51,750
shall be put on.

462
00:34:51,750 --> 00:34:55,750
Show it on the plan accordingly, and be a critical part of the deal, right?

463
00:34:56,230 --> 00:35:04,030
Or do we want to be that presumptuous that that's agreeable or simply ask for the

464
00:35:04,030 --> 00:35:10,690
a butter and the applicant to have a conversation and get back to the board within two weeks before the next meeting?

465
00:35:11,670 --> 00:35:13,310
You could do that if

466
00:35:13,310 --> 00:35:21,510
But it's ready to be approved and if Mr. Barry wants really wants action tonight

467
00:35:21,510 --> 00:35:29,210
It would not be, I don't think it would be appropriate to delay that, but maybe if they're not in any rush, maybe they'd be willing to do that.

468
00:35:29,610 --> 00:35:33,230
I mean, we were like action tonight, and we can have that conversation.

469
00:35:34,090 --> 00:35:38,570
It's unfortunate that it looks like the trees were cut on the budding lot all the way to the lotline.

470
00:35:40,330 --> 00:35:42,350
So then now we have the buffer on our lot.

471
00:35:44,230 --> 00:35:46,570
I'm guessing Mr. Goldstein might be willing to do something.

472
00:35:46,570 --> 00:35:54,630
If you look at the existing House on Lot 42, there's 150 feet worth of trees still left, fully wooded.

473
00:35:54,910 --> 00:35:56,890
So I don't anticipate that area to be cut.

474
00:35:57,610 --> 00:35:58,370
But I would leave.

475
00:35:58,370 --> 00:36:02,030
I would be willing to leave that, work it out with the landowners.

476
00:36:02,690 --> 00:36:04,490
We can put it on the final record of plan.

477
00:36:04,670 --> 00:36:07,290
If a buffer was agreed to.

478
00:36:08,130 --> 00:36:08,610
Yeah.

479
00:36:09,710 --> 00:36:14,290
My preference would be, let's wrap this up tonight with that intent.

480
00:36:16,150 --> 00:36:20,870
So, the neighbors can work out what it's going to be.

481
00:36:21,650 --> 00:36:27,810
Mr. Barrett will write up the contingency item, whatever you think.

482
00:36:27,830 --> 00:36:29,390
Yeah, it would be along the lines.

483
00:36:29,530 --> 00:36:32,210
I would add this as a condition for under plan modifications.

484
00:36:32,810 --> 00:36:39,790
In the event that this gentleman, this gentleman has the option if he wishes to speak with the property owner

485
00:36:39,790 --> 00:36:53,530
and request some sort of buffer on this lot in the event that the property owner agrees to that and agrees to make that a condition of approval this will be incorporated into the final recorded plans.

486
00:36:54,950 --> 00:37:04,390
If Mr. if the applicant if the owner does not agree to anything then nothing will be no changes will be made and you could put a time limit if you wish.

487
00:37:04,390 --> 00:37:10,810
But by the time, even if we, if I don't hear otherwise from Mr. Goldstein that it's assumed

488
00:37:10,810 --> 00:37:15,650
it's not happening and then they would just give us the final plans and a month or two

489
00:37:15,650 --> 00:37:17,030
when record them.

490
00:37:17,530 --> 00:37:21,850
This pretty calm is no, I don't see any issues with this.

491
00:37:22,230 --> 00:37:29,450
But just to speak to that just for one second, this is, it seems like this is the point of

492
00:37:29,450 --> 00:37:29,970
a public conversation.

493
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:40,000
Government, which is to raise a concern, and an abutters raise to concern that seems like a real concern.

494
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:49,100
And that if we move forward in the manner that I think being proposed, it seems like sort of all the wind is out of the sale, if you will.

495
00:37:49,540 --> 00:37:58,200
And so the time to have the concern dealt with seems like it would be now, while there's a public concern that's raised in violence in front of us.

496
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:03,460
before it moves forward and sort of becomes not existent.

497
00:38:04,580 --> 00:38:08,880
So I would seem to me that we may want to pause on that

498
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:12,760
for a brief period of time and see if the two parties

499
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,740
can sort of work something out that then is,

500
00:38:15,740 --> 00:38:17,620
let's say, codified in some language,

501
00:38:18,780 --> 00:38:23,880
or then that we can look at and know that something's taking place.

502
00:38:23,900 --> 00:38:27,000
So I would sort of pause, I think, on this level,

503
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:37,980
And say that we've heard a public comment, the public comment seems to me to be real, and that we may want to pause on that and not move forward.

504
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:39,080
That's just the thought.

505
00:38:39,460 --> 00:38:45,500
And I guess given the fact that we have a meeting in one week, this could be dealt with further rapidly.

506
00:38:47,060 --> 00:38:53,580
If the board is willing to say, okay, we can take five minutes at the beginning of the next meeting.

507
00:38:53,580 --> 00:39:00,740
And if they've got an agreement submitted, it gets voted on as approved to one week delay.

508
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:03,740
If they don't, then go ahead and approve it anyway.

509
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:14,100
My only concern is the only reason for us to delay would be because of something that we don't have to curve you over.

510
00:39:14,100 --> 00:39:15,740
We don't have the right to stop anyways.

511
00:39:15,740 --> 00:39:26,700
And that's my only point of contention in waiting is that we don't have the right to stop, to acquire it.

512
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:38,060
And we don't have the right to tell anybody they can't cut up to their boundary line if they want to.

513
00:39:38,060 --> 00:39:48,000
So, I just feel that, I think the scenario that Michael point, you know, kind of laid out is probably the best way to go that way.

514
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:56,520
They can get it taken care of, and we're not holding them up for something that we don't really have the right to hold them up for.

515
00:39:57,740 --> 00:40:05,560
I agree with Sally, and I think we should move on to see if anyone else has anything of this public hearing.

516
00:40:06,900 --> 00:40:07,860
I agree.

517
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:09,300
Thank you.

518
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:10,800
Thank you, Mr. Rosenberg.

519
00:40:12,620 --> 00:40:16,940
Are there any other public comments?

520
00:40:19,590 --> 00:40:22,170
Anybody that I know if we close the public yet?

521
00:40:22,730 --> 00:40:22,970
Second.

522
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:26,940
All in favor?

523
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:28,520
All in.

524
00:40:30,500 --> 00:40:30,760
All right.

525
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,120
So I'm with Sally and Julian.

526
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:38,540
I think that we don't have a reason to not take action tonight.

527
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:54,280
But we can set up the set the table for the neighbors to have a discussion and to come to an agreement that can be included within the action.

528
00:40:56,650 --> 00:40:57,810
Is that acceptable to everybody?

529
00:40:58,070 --> 00:40:59,770
Just a question for Michael first.

530
00:41:00,190 --> 00:41:02,390
And I agree with this.

531
00:41:02,390 --> 00:41:10,970
But could you clarify deed versus dealing with this in the deed that is outside the planning board process as opposed to the subdivision plan?

532
00:41:11,950 --> 00:41:13,690
That's not an option.

533
00:41:14,070 --> 00:41:14,350
That's not involved.

534
00:41:14,410 --> 00:41:14,870
That's right.

535
00:41:14,930 --> 00:41:22,890
If you didn't want to deal with this at all, then Mr. Rosenberg could still talk to Mr. Goldstein and they could do that.

536
00:41:22,950 --> 00:41:24,090
They could do that in the deed.

537
00:41:24,670 --> 00:41:25,270
Independent of the board.

538
00:41:28,460 --> 00:41:29,680
But there is an advantage.

539
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:33,200
I mean, if they do come to agreement, there's a benefit to showing up in the last.

540
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:34,840
But yeah, understatement.

541
00:41:38,940 --> 00:41:39,480
Discussion?

542
00:41:39,660 --> 00:41:40,580
Is this making noise?

543
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:45,580
All right.

544
00:41:45,720 --> 00:41:46,860
So any further discussion?

545
00:41:48,780 --> 00:41:49,780
Oh, Mr. Chair, I'm sorry.

546
00:41:50,340 --> 00:41:59,320
Just one other item I realize should be added, under plan notes, condition 8, that should

547
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:03,620
say any new electric lines serving the lot shall be placed under brown.

548
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:04,880
We'll plan notes.

549
00:42:05,720 --> 00:42:07,940
Just so there's no question about that.

550
00:42:07,940 --> 00:42:15,320
Which would be the vacant lot a lot with a garage plan notes on this school in packed fees number eight

551
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,940
Yeah, just added in there anywhere under planned notes.

552
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:21,640
Okay

553
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:29,800
Yeah, do we have to have a separate motion to approve the waivers you can if you want or you can just we can do it

554
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,640
It's part of the full approval. Okay

555
00:42:36,720 --> 00:42:39,180
All right, so the modification to

556
00:42:40,140 --> 00:42:41,380
would be the

557
00:42:42,060 --> 00:42:45,780
Electrical you just mentioned and this

558
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:49,100
Planned modification note

559
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,160
With the regarding a boss guarding in the

560
00:42:53,700 --> 00:42:57,060
Yes, amenable all right, so those are the two modifications

561
00:42:58,020 --> 00:43:00,140
To the notice of decision tonight

562
00:43:01,060 --> 00:43:06,100
You're okay with the notice of decision otherwise. Yep, I mean I'm okay with those two new ones

563
00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:10,280
Okay, and

564
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:11,720
And I

565
00:43:13,930 --> 00:43:23,070
will move that we approve a three-lot subdivision with a private road at 73 of

566
00:43:23,070 --> 00:43:29,350
the Scatico Road, property owner William Goldstein, map 209, lap 42 in the residence,

567
00:43:29,530 --> 00:43:38,250
Coastal District, per the modified notice of decision of September 23rd, 2026.

568
00:43:39,310 --> 00:43:42,090
Second, any further discussion?

569
00:43:44,130 --> 00:43:44,750
All in favor?

570
00:43:45,330 --> 00:43:45,610
Aye.

571
00:43:45,610 --> 00:43:45,710
Aye.

572
00:43:46,410 --> 00:43:46,850
Opposed?

573
00:43:48,370 --> 00:43:48,610
All right.

574
00:43:49,110 --> 00:43:49,650
I'll abstain.

575
00:43:50,270 --> 00:43:50,810
One abstention.

576
00:43:52,970 --> 00:43:53,230
All right.

577
00:43:53,530 --> 00:43:53,950
Thank you.

578
00:43:54,190 --> 00:43:54,230
All right.

579
00:43:54,230 --> 00:43:55,150
When you've read time tonight?

580
00:43:56,570 --> 00:43:56,770
Yeah.

581
00:43:57,010 --> 00:43:58,470
Good luck with your conversation.

582
00:43:58,790 --> 00:43:59,410
Mr. Rosenberger.

583
00:44:00,290 --> 00:44:01,110
It makes sense.

584
00:44:01,270 --> 00:44:04,510
You should make sense.

585
00:44:09,620 --> 00:44:11,660
You'll probably succeed or I'll just do that.

586
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:12,220
Yeah.

587
00:44:12,220 --> 00:44:18,700
Next item will be a public caring for 121 technology drive, light industry buildings, site

588
00:44:18,700 --> 00:44:23,800
plan application for two light industrial or warehouse buildings, each with 160,000 square

589
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,960
feet, 450 parking spaces and other improvements.

590
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:32,000
Conditional use application for activity within 75 foot wetland buffer, lot line, just

591
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:32,820
been application.

592
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:42,200
RJ Kelly has Sean Smith owner, Bidget Susan Matt Peterson, for Keats Nordstrom engineer, Matt

593
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:45,140
in the Office Research Light Industry District.

594
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:49,180
The focus of the discussion will be on stormwater

595
00:44:49,180 --> 00:44:51,260
and the conditional use request tonight.

596
00:44:59,400 --> 00:44:59,980
Just one.

597
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:08,380
One minute, Mr. Chair, we'll get some. All right, we're definitely going to want to see your drawings.

598
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:09,800
Data.

599
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:25,420
So Matt Peterson is not with us this evening.

600
00:45:25,780 --> 00:45:31,720
What we do have, burning quickly and bridge it here, and for the record, Shonsmith,

601
00:45:31,720 --> 00:45:34,060
RJ Kelly-Co, you're on behalf of ownership,

602
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:40,600
as I pull up my PC here, we'll be going in.

603
00:45:40,820 --> 00:45:45,700
Mr. Chair, as you stated, we'll be focusing on the conditional use permits and the storm

604
00:45:45,700 --> 00:45:54,100
water, the seeming to give a little bit more color on the storm water specifically and have

605
00:45:54,100 --> 00:46:01,020
a conversation about the two conditional uses that we have proposed here to discuss and have

606
00:46:01,020 --> 00:46:01,520
a conversation.

607
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:02,300
So,

608
00:46:20,430 --> 00:46:28,770
with the board prefer to start on any particular item, or other words, I think we probably start with the storm water piece, storm water, please.

609
00:46:42,300 --> 00:46:44,640
So, show us where the water goes.

610
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:48,900
Okay.

611
00:46:51,990 --> 00:46:53,250
Thank you for your patience.

612
00:46:58,420 --> 00:47:02,580
Alright, so, original, do most of the talking on this one.

613
00:47:02,720 --> 00:47:07,080
She's the one who designed everything here, so she can give you a good rundown of how things are working,

614
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:08,820
and I'll just try to keep up by guess.

615
00:47:09,700 --> 00:47:15,980
And we can send this to you guys after this meeting so that the entire board can take a look at it a little more detailed.

616
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:20,540
But essentially, this is the Great and in drainage plan.

617
00:47:21,380 --> 00:47:24,560
I did a full site overview for you guys for readability.

618
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:33,860
In the green lines, those are the subcatchment areas that are a part of the drainage analysis.

619
00:47:33,860 --> 00:47:40,120
So it's like the area breakout that goes to each drainage structure, whether that's a roof

620
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:43,600
drain or a catch basin, or directly to a pond.

621
00:47:44,820 --> 00:47:53,180
In the purple, we have the actual drain lines, and then I also circled all of the catch

622
00:47:53,180 --> 00:47:59,040
basin locations in red, and the roof drain locations in orange.

623
00:48:01,100 --> 00:48:06,520
And then I included some flow arrows on here, so if you want to just zoom into any section.

624
00:48:07,740 --> 00:48:14,160
So the dash arrow line, that is also taken from our drainage analysis, and it just shows,

625
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:19,320
I got to adjust them a little bit, but it just shows the flow path to the catch basins.

626
00:48:19,940 --> 00:48:27,000
And then I have a directional arrow on all the purple drain lines just showing the flow of direction.

627
00:48:28,380 --> 00:48:30,640
You want to zoom in to this area.

628
00:48:31,660 --> 00:48:34,320
So we'll start with the catch basins, right?

629
00:48:34,580 --> 00:48:42,420
So when it rains out, soil water is directed to one of many catch basins on this property.

630
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:45,080
The entire perimeter is curved.

631
00:48:46,300 --> 00:48:54,300
So any storm water that hits pavement within this new proposed area is captured by a catch

632
00:48:54,300 --> 00:48:54,640
basin.

633
00:48:54,640 --> 00:49:03,780
The catch basins are equipped with a snout and that snout's purpose is to prevent floatables

634
00:49:03,780 --> 00:49:11,800
like trash leaves, debris, as well as hydrocarbon, so any oils, petroleum that might come

635
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:18,940
off of a car or a truck would be on the surface of that standing water in the catch basin.

636
00:49:19,660 --> 00:49:24,620
And then any heavy sediment would fall out in that structure.

637
00:49:25,940 --> 00:49:30,580
So in our operation and maintenance plan, we include a schedule for the structures to

638
00:49:30,580 --> 00:49:31,260
be inspected.

639
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:40,880
And then the standard protocol is once the deep sum is approximately a third full, that

640
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:45,640
requires it to be cleaned out, so that it can continue to capture some of that sediment prior

641
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:48,560
to moving downstream to our treatment structures.

642
00:49:50,500 --> 00:49:52,860
The snouts actually have a vent on them as well.

643
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:56,260
I think it's important to point out.

644
00:49:56,380 --> 00:50:00,160
So it just prevents siphoning in larger storms.

645
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:08,660
It removes that transfer vacuum so that those hydrocarbons in the trash stay on the surface

646
00:50:08,660 --> 00:50:11,400
of that water where the inlet comes in.

647
00:50:11,980 --> 00:50:18,540
So, from the catch basins, it moves through a series of pipes to drain manual structures and

648
00:50:18,540 --> 00:50:22,440
eventually to one of four ponds on a site.

649
00:50:22,540 --> 00:50:24,040
If we could just pause, remember.

650
00:50:24,740 --> 00:50:29,660
Are there any questions on how this catch basins sort of functions as its first step?

651
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:30,620
One question.

652
00:50:30,900 --> 00:50:31,020
Yeah.

653
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:31,300
That presentation.

654
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:32,860
Thank you.

655
00:50:32,980 --> 00:50:34,140
Just curiosity questions.

656
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:37,620
So, in terms of the capacity, I assume it's like a typical catch basin.

657
00:50:37,620 --> 00:50:49,360
But if there was a spill from, say, a truck diesel tank, 80 gallon or so spill, what's the capacity of one catch basin to hold 80 gallons of fiber carbon?

658
00:50:50,780 --> 00:51:05,460
I don't have the exact number off the top of head, but typically the snouts are about 12 inches below the outlet, so you're talking about a foot within a four or five foot structure.

659
00:51:07,620 --> 00:51:09,940
Quick math in my head, geez.

660
00:51:10,940 --> 00:51:15,020
I do think it's, I do think it's a point to note on an event

661
00:51:15,020 --> 00:51:18,800
such as that, the first step is spill response, right?

662
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:25,840
Every single user of that nature would be required

663
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:29,920
to have spill response gets on site, adequate to manage

664
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:32,860
something of their larger nature, right?

665
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:36,600
So absorbed with pads, some people throw kidding

666
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:40,140
that are not really really does that anymore, but, you know, anything that would soak up the

667
00:51:40,140 --> 00:51:44,520
oils and prevent it from running off and then be able to collect it in a way that it would

668
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:48,720
keep it from getting here at the first place, right? So a spill like that is normally handled

669
00:51:48,720 --> 00:51:54,140
immediately on site in that particular location, before I guess to one of these any sort of residual

670
00:51:54,760 --> 00:52:00,420
would be the point in this space. How many calculations will there be for these two new buildings?

671
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:06,060
I don't know the exact number off we can zoom out. There's quite a few.

672
00:52:07,540 --> 00:52:16,300
You can see every, I'm sorry, I'm bounced around here, every single one of these red dots is a catch piece and they all have a snout, right?

673
00:52:16,500 --> 00:52:29,740
Yeah, they would all be equipped with one, so especially in the lines that are sequential from a catch piece into a catch piece and there'd be more capacity to

674
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:33,100
Collective and more hydrocarbons.

675
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:40,500
Do what percent of catch basins installed on projects to have that snow feature?

676
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:50,360
Nowadays, most of them, it's pretty much a requirement or something that engineers just

677
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:55,200
automatically include now. Whether a town has that requirement or not, it depends

678
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:59,960
town to town, but it's pretty much an engineering standard practice now to always include one of

679
00:52:59,960 --> 00:53:00,280
those.

680
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:06,320
I would say in New Hampshire specifically, because we do work in both, like Massachusetts

681
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:08,040
New Hampshire or other areas in New England,

682
00:53:10,420 --> 00:53:12,120
sometimes you have like an area during our

683
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:16,180
catch basin that does not collect runoff from a paved surface or something that would be

684
00:53:16,180 --> 00:53:22,880
exposed to vehicular runoff or the potential for light amounts of oils that just so happen

685
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:29,080
fall off as people's outbreaks is what they do, sometimes those don't come with the sound.

686
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:33,440
But in general, in this sort of application, you almost always see them.

687
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:36,100
All right.

688
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:36,780
Any more questions?

689
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:37,740
Well, we're on the wheel.

690
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:44,440
Do most of the spill response plans start at those catch basins?

691
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:49,360
Or do they wait until the oil has migrated to the retention, detention?

692
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:50,840
Oh, no.

693
00:53:51,100 --> 00:53:52,140
Those are immediate.

694
00:53:52,140 --> 00:53:56,960
It's like there's there's there's something on the pavement we got to soak it up in your

695
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:57,580
banks.

696
00:53:57,980 --> 00:53:58,440
Yep.

697
00:54:00,260 --> 00:54:05,460
And a lot of those businesses like they're required to have that prepared and it's reviewed

698
00:54:05,460 --> 00:54:08,160
and submitted to either the state or federal.

699
00:54:09,580 --> 00:54:09,760
All right.

700
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:17,540
So for the upper parking area and the lower parking area so the north and the south.

701
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:20,560
And then the drive aisle around the perimeter.

702
00:54:22,100 --> 00:54:32,600
Those series of catch basins, pipes and manholes, they are directly connected to one of three

703
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:33,520
gravel wetlands.

704
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:41,420
The parking court for the tractor trailers in the middle, that first goes to a dry detention

705
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:50,480
So it comes into a sediment four bay, a sediment four bay allows more time for

706
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:56,300
sediments to fall out. It slows the velocity of storm water coming into the pond.

707
00:54:56,520 --> 00:55:01,080
So those larger storms where you're seeing a larger volume of water, it dissipates

708
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:08,020
that velocity of the water. From there it spills over into the storage area. I just

709
00:55:08,020 --> 00:55:12,140
included a picture of a typical dry detention.

710
00:55:12,700 --> 00:55:14,260
You can see the inlet area.

711
00:55:15,300 --> 00:55:17,200
There is some stone rip wrap there.

712
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:22,680
R is more of what would be required for a full pond.

713
00:55:22,820 --> 00:55:27,720
Even though a dry detention pond doesn't provide treatment

714
00:55:27,720 --> 00:55:30,820
per New Hampshire standards, we wanted to make sure

715
00:55:30,820 --> 00:55:34,800
we included an actual structural sediment for bay

716
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:38,620
to allow more time for sediment fallout.

717
00:55:39,140 --> 00:55:41,600
So once it collects in the four bay,

718
00:55:41,900 --> 00:55:44,780
it makes its way through the pond into the outlet structure.

719
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:47,760
And then that outlet structure is directed

720
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:51,400
to the third gravel wetland on the site.

721
00:55:53,300 --> 00:55:55,360
So once we get to a gravel wetland,

722
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:58,740
we have a four bay in each one of the three.

723
00:56:00,100 --> 00:56:01,920
Sean, there's an image further down,

724
00:56:01,980 --> 00:56:03,120
we can take a look at it too.

725
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:10,600
So starting on the left hand side, that would be an overflow from the four bay.

726
00:56:11,500 --> 00:56:14,780
They're not always built with a pipe.

727
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:22,000
This is just an image taken from the new hamster stormwater handbook.

728
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:24,520
So your four bay would be off screen to the left.

729
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:27,240
So it's built over from the four bay.

730
00:56:27,240 --> 00:56:39,040
It goes into a ponding area, the first treatment cell for gravel wetlands, and inside those gravel wetlands there would be some stand pipes.

731
00:56:39,940 --> 00:56:47,400
You'd have a larger typical two-foot and then you'd have a series of eight-inch diameter pipes that are perforated.

732
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:55,180
It allows that storm water to go into the gravel underneath a wetland layer that is vegetated.

733
00:56:55,180 --> 00:57:01,940
So, this area, the gravel wetland area, excuse me, the gravel area underneath that substrate,

734
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:12,460
that area is in an aerobic area, so it allows a breakdown of between oxygen to break

735
00:57:12,460 --> 00:57:19,100
down nitrogen in phosphorus, your two biggest concerns for your pollutants, to break them

736
00:57:19,100 --> 00:57:25,900
to a level where the vegetation above them can actually pull them up those nutrients into

737
00:57:25,900 --> 00:57:35,560
their from their roots and provide nutrients for that growth, right? Your water, gravel wetlands

738
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:40,920
is more of a horizontal motion for treatment, so it makes its way through that treatment cell

739
00:57:41,540 --> 00:57:48,120
and then it goes into an underduring within the gravel and it makes its way into a second treatment cell.

740
00:57:49,100 --> 00:57:53,720
where it gets more time for those nutrients to be absorbed.

741
00:57:54,540 --> 00:57:58,860
Eventually, it makes its way to the outlet control structure,

742
00:57:59,980 --> 00:58:01,720
where there's an underdrain connected to it,

743
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:05,410
and then your lowest orifice, your smallest hole,

744
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:10,040
coming out of that structure before it's out of a pond,

745
00:58:11,860 --> 00:58:17,460
is located at that substrate area,

746
00:58:17,460 --> 00:58:19,260
the vegetation grows.

747
00:58:20,340 --> 00:58:23,800
So you're always, your gravel layer is always saturated,

748
00:58:24,020 --> 00:58:28,780
so it's always promoting treatment of any water

749
00:58:28,780 --> 00:58:30,080
that's in there.

750
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:33,460
So in your low flow storms, there's small ones,

751
00:58:34,020 --> 00:58:36,840
whether it's one inch or two year storm,

752
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:41,160
you'd have flow out of the outlet control structure.

753
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:46,440
And then in your larger storms, these ponds were sized

754
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:48,980
to hold up to a hundred-year storm.

755
00:58:50,140 --> 00:58:54,980
So you're talking about, I believe it's approximately eight inches of rain over 24-hour

756
00:58:54,980 --> 00:58:55,480
period.

757
00:58:56,240 --> 00:59:01,460
So we're holding all that water in that pond, and then the outlet structure is equipped with,

758
00:59:01,460 --> 00:59:06,520
you know, larger holes or offices in order to let some of that water out for the largest

759
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:16,940
storms so that we have a full draw-down with the exception of that gravel layer to allow

760
00:59:16,940 --> 00:59:23,940
the pond to drain within 72 hours, and that's per requirements you have sure.

761
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:25,080
It's more and more manual.

762
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:28,800
Any questions first before I continue?

763
00:59:31,910 --> 00:59:32,330
We're good.

764
00:59:36,710 --> 00:59:37,330
Okay.

765
00:59:37,330 --> 00:59:49,210
on this site. As we know, UNH is very big and determining and studying and doing analysis of stormwater throughout the state.

766
00:59:50,630 --> 00:59:58,530
The State of New Hampshire DES has worked with UNH to develop the most recent stormwater manual which came out last year, 2025.

767
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:23,440
And in that, they actually rated treatment options for stormwater, as well as updating kind of their regulations for alteration of terrain when you disturb more than 100,000 square feet, what your options are, depending on what your downstream receiving waters are.

768
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:28,620
So as you guys know, Oyster River is very important to you.

769
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:31,480
It's a classified as a Class A surface water.

770
01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:36,880
And in the regulations presented by the state,

771
01:00:36,940 --> 01:00:42,280
there's only two options for treatment on a site

772
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:45,700
that drains to a receiving water that's designated as a Class A.

773
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:47,620
And gravel wetlands is one of them.

774
01:00:47,620 --> 01:00:53,660
A buyer retention with additional internal storage is the other.

775
01:00:54,020 --> 01:00:56,040
They both operate in a very similar manner.

776
01:00:56,700 --> 01:01:00,800
You have an area where you're allowing vegetation

777
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:05,740
or a filter media to grab some of those nutrients

778
01:01:05,740 --> 01:01:09,760
and remove them from a water before discharging downstream.

779
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:14,660
Actually, where this regulation is pointed out

780
01:01:14,660 --> 01:01:19,940
In the AOT regulations, is under a pollute and discharge

781
01:01:19,940 --> 01:01:21,360
minimization requirements.

782
01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:24,320
It's not even listed in a separate section,

783
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:30,140
like a treatment swell or an infiltration chamber system

784
01:01:30,140 --> 01:01:30,680
would be.

785
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:37,900
It's actually listed for the record, 1507.03 is the section.

786
01:01:37,900 --> 01:01:49,200
And it's directly listed for phosphorus removal for nitrogen removal, and for any stormwater

787
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:53,060
within a quarter mile of a class day surface water, which we are.

788
01:01:53,960 --> 01:01:56,060
And grab a wetland is right at the top of the list for those.

789
01:01:56,180 --> 01:01:58,560
So that's why we chose that option.

790
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:06,120
It's one of the best treatment options out there, especially on properties where you cannot promote

791
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:10,670
infiltration like this one. We have any more questions.

792
01:02:12,510 --> 01:02:18,990
What happens when a gravel went land becomes clogged with silt?

793
01:02:20,270 --> 01:02:26,030
So we put those upstream treatment trains in

794
01:02:26,030 --> 01:02:31,150
in for a reason, right? So as long as you are taking care of your scheduled

795
01:02:32,910 --> 01:02:39,430
maintenance so that's you know every every spring and every fall there's you know

796
01:02:39,430 --> 01:02:42,870
requirements and then within the first five years for gravel wetland especially

797
01:02:42,870 --> 01:02:47,430
there's additional so it's a quarter a year and you're inspecting these so as long as

798
01:02:47,430 --> 01:02:53,570
you're doing those things you shouldn't have a problem but in in that case the

799
01:02:53,570 --> 01:02:57,970
underdrain could be disconnected to those perforated pipes, stamp pipes that

800
01:02:57,970 --> 01:03:05,190
allow. It would allow some opportunity to clean that out. Worst case scenario, you have to

801
01:03:05,190 --> 01:03:11,670
remove gravel and then replace the gravel. But there's been some studies done by UNH that

802
01:03:11,670 --> 01:03:18,970
show a great life span for gravel wetlands. I think the last one that I just read was 20 years,

803
01:03:19,690 --> 01:03:26,170
and the pollutant removal loads were practically identical, 20 years apart. So it's a very good

804
01:03:26,170 --> 01:03:39,010
And so much so that New Hampshire DOT almost all their projects now, when they're doing renovations or needs to put in new stormwater treatment trains, they're including gravel wetlands.

805
01:03:40,790 --> 01:03:49,030
So there is a few, I know right off of Route 4 as you go up towards 16 in Dover. There's a few cells there.

806
01:03:50,270 --> 01:03:58,510
And there's some off of 93 when they did all the road work for the expansion of adding that lane on 93 in the winter maria.

807
01:04:00,070 --> 01:04:10,850
So if you look around they're all over the state, but it's a very vital option, especially when you're trying to remove pollutants like nitrogen, phosphorus and even zinc.

808
01:04:10,850 --> 01:04:17,830
And when these contributions are cleaned out, where does the material, but as we move, go?

809
01:04:18,250 --> 01:04:26,050
So they're vacuumed out, and then those companies that have that contract dispose of that material with

810
01:04:26,050 --> 01:04:30,610
in regards to how the state and federal requirements make them handle that.

811
01:04:32,590 --> 01:04:36,270
So whether it's a designated dump site or if they have to do some treatment,

812
01:04:36,710 --> 01:04:39,570
whatever the federal regulations and state regulations require.

813
01:04:41,610 --> 01:04:50,630
And just a question, you mentioned its design for 100 years event, which I think you said was like got eight inches in a 24-hour period.

814
01:04:50,810 --> 01:04:51,390
Yeah, roughly.

815
01:04:52,130 --> 01:05:01,290
And so what I just know anecdotally, it seems like recently the storms, many storms that I see are more severe.

816
01:05:03,330 --> 01:05:08,570
And if we were to look forward, I guess, is that a realistic hundred-year estimate looking forward?

817
01:05:08,770 --> 01:05:13,210
And then what happens in the event that you get ten inches in a twenty-four-hour period?

818
01:05:13,690 --> 01:05:17,610
What does that mean to all of the capacity that you've played out?

819
01:05:18,490 --> 01:05:26,190
So, in terms of a larger storm event, first, it would depend on the intensity and timing.

820
01:05:26,190 --> 01:05:35,490
So we kind of look at eight inches, you can look at eight inches being done for, you know, within two hours over, you know,

821
01:05:35,570 --> 01:05:47,050
say 20 inches and then four inches in the rest, right? But the, the ponds are equipped with an overflow, great, right?

822
01:05:47,050 --> 01:05:50,750
It's 4x4, every single pawn is designed with that.

823
01:05:51,030 --> 01:05:56,470
And in our modeling, we're not utilizing that overflow

824
01:05:56,470 --> 01:05:57,950
as the orifice, right?

825
01:05:57,950 --> 01:05:59,950
We're trying to get all of the stormwater out

826
01:05:59,950 --> 01:06:02,410
through the holes in the cycle structure,

827
01:06:02,630 --> 01:06:07,570
so in the event of a larger storm, it would overflow via that rim

828
01:06:07,570 --> 01:06:08,230
first.

829
01:06:09,410 --> 01:06:12,150
And then if that doesn't meet the capacity,

830
01:06:12,150 --> 01:06:16,230
like if it's over capacity, you would install a berm

831
01:06:16,230 --> 01:06:18,470
Well, on that berm that pulls all that water,

832
01:06:18,530 --> 01:06:20,130
you have an emergency spillway,

833
01:06:20,710 --> 01:06:24,510
and that's just how a majority of stormwater funds are constructed.

834
01:06:27,150 --> 01:06:29,730
So, in a larger storm event, that would be utilized.

835
01:06:31,490 --> 01:06:33,870
We don't model anything more than 100 years,

836
01:06:34,850 --> 01:06:36,230
because I know, in recent times,

837
01:06:36,290 --> 01:06:38,550
we have seen larger storm events,

838
01:06:39,590 --> 01:06:43,130
but we're still coming up from a time in the 80s and 90s,

839
01:06:43,130 --> 01:06:46,390
you were lucky if something was sized for a 25-year form.

840
01:06:47,730 --> 01:06:52,190
So we're trying to mitigate storms up through the 100-year,

841
01:06:52,670 --> 01:06:55,250
but requirements, even at the state level,

842
01:06:55,410 --> 01:06:57,230
are only until the 50-year.

843
01:06:58,630 --> 01:07:00,330
And I'll tack on a little bit there.

844
01:07:00,770 --> 01:07:01,010
I'm sorry.

845
01:07:01,870 --> 01:07:05,070
I spent a good part of my career when I was an engineer

846
01:07:05,070 --> 01:07:13,110
studying these things and understanding how we're

847
01:07:13,110 --> 01:07:23,890
When it comes to calling something a 100 year storm, it's important to understand that it's a 1% chance of occurrence in a year.

848
01:07:24,330 --> 01:07:29,310
Based on measured rainfall that people have taken gages for from Noah, right?

849
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:39,220
Ironically, is doing a lot of work here in town out here. So it does change, right? We have to expect

850
01:07:39,220 --> 01:07:46,620
that it will change. The issue becomes where, it almost becomes a question of economic

851
01:07:46,620 --> 01:07:55,120
viability. If we start requiring all our basins to deal with a point, the next stage, which is

852
01:07:55,120 --> 01:08:00,620
really a 500-year storm, most of these people will model for us and show us what those

853
01:08:00,620 --> 01:08:09,000
rainfalls will be. You end up with situations where it's almost non-viable. It's really

854
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:12,120
difficult to build to that in terms of storm water management.

855
01:08:15,100 --> 01:08:16,960
It's all overlaid with insurance

856
01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:24,520
and how all that stuff operates, but at the end of the day where the crossing of sustainability

857
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:26,660
which is not gested environmentalism.

858
01:08:27,140 --> 01:08:28,820
We can talk about environmentalism all day,

859
01:08:29,560 --> 01:08:30,580
but the crossing of sustainability,

860
01:08:30,900 --> 01:08:35,620
which considers social environmentalism

861
01:08:35,620 --> 01:08:36,960
and economic viability,

862
01:08:37,320 --> 01:08:41,760
because we have to continue to meet our needs currently exist

863
01:08:41,760 --> 01:08:43,300
at that 100 years norm this location.

864
01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:45,080
And so that's why, as engineers,

865
01:08:45,480 --> 01:08:48,440
we continue to model to that number

866
01:08:48,440 --> 01:08:50,280
until such time as it would change.

867
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:51,580
Because at the end of the day,

868
01:08:52,160 --> 01:08:52,780
I'm from Indiana.

869
01:08:52,780 --> 01:09:00,460
I'm not sure if anybody knows what happened in that state this year, but there were areas that got 16 inches of rain.

870
01:09:01,320 --> 01:09:03,320
You know, you can't deal with that.

871
01:09:03,880 --> 01:09:04,820
It's what it is.

872
01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:08,960
It's widespread studies to make sure that regions are okay.

873
01:09:09,240 --> 01:09:10,140
Not individual sites.

874
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:17,600
Could you address, so you talked about your spillways?

875
01:09:18,940 --> 01:09:26,380
If the spillways become active, do those follow the pattern down through your system?

876
01:09:26,380 --> 01:09:28,620
or did they bypass the lower stages?

877
01:09:30,140 --> 01:09:32,480
It would be more of a bypass situation,

878
01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:36,900
so for the top gravel wetland to the north.

879
01:09:38,200 --> 01:09:41,840
A bypass, excuse me, of spillway for that,

880
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:44,000
would spillway into the roadway,

881
01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:47,880
and then it would just make its way down that existing drive.

882
01:09:50,260 --> 01:09:52,540
It's curved to a certain point,

883
01:09:52,540 --> 01:09:54,360
and then it would just run over land

884
01:09:54,360 --> 01:09:55,880
because it's not curved anymore.

885
01:09:55,880 --> 01:10:03,180
So, it would make its way into that existing fire pond and it would follow the existing

886
01:10:03,180 --> 01:10:05,400
contours out there.

887
01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:06,700
So the existing slope out there.

888
01:10:06,740 --> 01:10:15,400
So, your new systems though, each of those spillways down through your gravel wetlands,

889
01:10:15,960 --> 01:10:23,460
that looks like there's those spillways there, and maybe I'm misinterpreting the red and

890
01:10:23,460 --> 01:10:29,420
corner there and how that all works. Well yeah I know there's still always there.

891
01:10:31,500 --> 01:10:31,580
So

892
01:10:31,580 --> 01:10:37,040
this is still late from the first treatment part of the gravel wetland into the second,

893
01:10:37,040 --> 01:10:41,640
going to the second or does it fly past? It looks like it just flies past. So the second stage.

894
01:10:42,020 --> 01:10:49,940
So I know it's two cells. Those two cells are more for your treatment portion, right? So that's

895
01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:56,380
your one-inch storm, your water quality volume, that's what the state has determined is one-inch.

896
01:10:57,200 --> 01:11:01,320
And then your two-year storm, I'd have to check the numbers, maybe even your 10-year storm.

897
01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:07,560
But that would naturally make its way through those cells, through that train that I discussed.

898
01:11:08,440 --> 01:11:11,620
For your largest storms, you're 25, you're 50, you're 100-year.

899
01:11:12,580 --> 01:11:27,360
You're automatically, you're above those cell elevations in the high point of those cells that disconnect them from each other, and you're into another two to three footwear additional storage.

900
01:11:28,460 --> 01:11:38,860
And then if you had anything above that, that's where your whole storm arm, you have one continue to burn around the outside, and then that burn that separates the cells in the middle is a little bit lower.

901
01:11:38,860 --> 01:11:47,020
So, your spillway is on that outside burn, and then so, like I said, for the top one,

902
01:11:47,220 --> 01:11:48,240
without existing dry.

903
01:11:48,380 --> 01:11:51,920
So, you fill both people before you hit the spillway?

904
01:11:52,620 --> 01:11:53,040
Yes, absolutely.

905
01:11:54,300 --> 01:12:00,660
And I think one thing I'd like to highlight when it comes to separating the concepts of quality

906
01:12:00,660 --> 01:12:02,800
and water quantity, right?

907
01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:08,640
When we start talking 1% storms, even 25 year storms, we're talking about quantity.

908
01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:14,600
management. We're preventing this site from discharging more water in those

909
01:12:14,600 --> 01:12:19,160
events than it would today. Okay, and that helps with downstream flood

910
01:12:19,160 --> 01:12:25,260
protection, right? When it comes to quality, the storm events that we're

911
01:12:25,260 --> 01:12:29,380
concerned with are actually much smaller because we deal with what's called the

912
01:12:29,380 --> 01:12:33,380
first flush all the time, and I'm not sure if you've heard that concept. But that's

913
01:12:33,380 --> 01:12:39,220
typically the first inch of rainfall will typically be your quote-unquote dirty rainfall.

914
01:12:39,980 --> 01:12:44,840
So these come with certain sizing mechanisms that Bridget's gone through and calculated

915
01:12:44,840 --> 01:12:50,060
to understand what that volume is to make sure that water gets treated to the level it

916
01:12:50,060 --> 01:12:51,440
needs to be treated to.

917
01:12:51,820 --> 01:12:57,520
And then anything above that is generally quote-unquote clean water much cleaner than that first

918
01:12:57,520 --> 01:12:59,900
watch because we've washed off everything that's sitting in the payments.

919
01:12:59,900 --> 01:13:03,140
Right, so now you're just managing the quantity of water.

920
01:13:08,840 --> 01:13:09,820
Any more questions?

921
01:13:11,020 --> 01:13:13,940
Do you have more shows on this?

922
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:16,560
I think the one thing I would like to discuss,

923
01:13:17,780 --> 01:13:21,060
you know, we have a couple of conditional uses out there.

924
01:13:21,260 --> 01:13:24,320
But one waiver that kind of goes,

925
01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:27,700
you know, discussing with Michael a little bit by email today,

926
01:13:27,780 --> 01:13:30,140
maybe we want to discuss now are the slopes.

927
01:13:30,620 --> 01:13:32,560
We're asking for a waiver on the slopes.

928
01:13:34,900 --> 01:13:44,040
And the town requires three to one or less, so three horizontal, one vertical, something like that.

929
01:13:44,620 --> 01:13:49,740
We, in many other locations throughout New England, have gone to two to one slopes with slope protection.

930
01:13:49,960 --> 01:13:55,360
The reason we do three to one is not only from a mate, that's perspective, but from a roadability perspective.

931
01:13:55,900 --> 01:14:07,120
Once you put an erosion protection on a two-to-one slope, the erosion concern typically goes

932
01:14:07,120 --> 01:14:07,460
away.

933
01:14:07,920 --> 01:14:12,280
Once you get it all stabilized, you can do that with erosion mounting, which we're proposing

934
01:14:13,080 --> 01:14:16,560
stone rip wrap, which, you know, angular rip wrap locks things in.

935
01:14:17,560 --> 01:14:19,140
There's a lot of different ways to accomplish that.

936
01:14:19,260 --> 01:14:23,340
Typically, you put them mounting down, you'll let the seed grow and it's pretty stable,

937
01:14:24,020 --> 01:14:24,120
right?

938
01:14:24,120 --> 01:14:28,700
But unless you have a location where you're

939
01:14:28,700 --> 01:14:30,960
discharging water fairly consistently, which

940
01:14:30,960 --> 01:14:32,420
we're capturing all our water.

941
01:14:33,100 --> 01:14:35,560
So only the water that lands and runs off

942
01:14:35,560 --> 01:14:38,120
will really be exposing us to erosion in these locations.

943
01:14:39,560 --> 01:14:41,380
And even if there is a mild amount of erosion,

944
01:14:41,720 --> 01:14:44,600
it's captured by our gravel limits.

945
01:14:45,980 --> 01:14:48,800
So something that we'll be asking for as a part

946
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:51,940
of the decision, I think we've adequately addressed it.

947
01:14:51,940 --> 01:14:54,580
If there's any questions there, I'd like to discuss that too.

948
01:14:57,500 --> 01:14:59,220
Where are those two to one slopes?

949
01:14:59,520 --> 01:14:59,740
The patient.

950
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:07,940
We can see them here, the contour lines where they're much tighter, right? These are two to one. You can see the difference to the three to one slope.

951
01:15:08,180 --> 01:15:11,900
So, yeah. So, you can see other just a little bit tighter.

952
01:15:13,140 --> 01:15:26,280
We have on the north side as well, another location of two to one slopes. We're finding, through some investigation, that a lot of this will likely be exposed ledge face though. So, the erosion concerns sort of go away.

953
01:15:26,280 --> 01:15:30,320
But we'll do some more investigations when we come back again.

954
01:15:30,780 --> 01:15:33,500
We're looking at ways to modify the northern side

955
01:15:34,080 --> 01:15:37,640
to help us out with some of the work we're doing up here.

956
01:15:37,980 --> 01:15:39,500
Now that the legislature has been discovered.

957
01:15:41,080 --> 01:15:45,740
So, other than that, along just where you see these sort of tighter

958
01:15:45,740 --> 01:15:48,100
contour lines, that's where you have the two-to-one slopes.

959
01:15:49,060 --> 01:15:50,780
And as soon as you get into the pond areas,

960
01:15:51,480 --> 01:15:54,400
we transition to a three-to-one, that's a state requirement.

961
01:15:55,080 --> 01:15:58,900
you can't have anything steeper than a three to one slope and design of your

962
01:15:58,900 --> 01:16:05,040
stormwater pond. So we have three to one of those locations. And to speak to

963
01:16:05,040 --> 01:16:09,560
what Sean was saying, the main purpose of the two to one slope and why we

964
01:16:09,560 --> 01:16:15,020
utilize that and ask for the waiver is to shrink our impact footprint. So we're

965
01:16:15,020 --> 01:16:21,360
not so much into the buffer and avoiding any disturbance to existing wetlands or

966
01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:28,860
buffer area. So the maximum is that possible with this design. And thank you for that's a good point.

967
01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:34,720
So if we if we went to three to one right we basically have to add a foot every single one of these

968
01:16:34,720 --> 01:16:41,200
contours of core. So you have about 15 feet max of your adding 15 more feet of disturbance into

969
01:16:42,440 --> 01:16:47,300
the woods of the wetland buffer in a really in a way that's unnecessary because we have ways to

970
01:16:47,300 --> 01:16:51,260
manage it. And similarly down here although we're not right against a wetland buffer

971
01:16:51,360 --> 01:16:57,320
If you push this out, the road gets pushed out, the pond gets pushed out, or the wetland gets pushed out.

972
01:16:57,580 --> 01:17:02,380
So we have the same consequence, even though in essence it's not right against the edge.

973
01:17:02,680 --> 01:17:06,860
So this was, as Richard said, a way for us to reduce our footprint a little bit.

974
01:17:07,700 --> 01:17:08,960
What's the landscaping plan?

975
01:17:09,140 --> 01:17:13,020
So you said you're going to put down that and see long-term.

976
01:17:13,900 --> 01:17:18,360
Is that something you're going to have to mow at a two to one slope, or is that going to be

977
01:17:19,300 --> 01:17:22,380
some other stable, you know, vegetated surface.

978
01:17:22,600 --> 01:17:24,840
Yeah, typically in Motu to one, I don't.

979
01:17:25,060 --> 01:17:27,540
Yeah, I mean, you know, our landscape, guys,

980
01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:29,500
of methods of taking care of that.

981
01:17:29,500 --> 01:17:32,360
A lot of times that we'll just let it grow in, right?

982
01:17:33,980 --> 01:17:36,260
And handle it a couple times a year.

983
01:17:37,180 --> 01:17:38,840
You know, there are native species that we can use

984
01:17:38,840 --> 01:17:39,660
on these slopes and things.

985
01:17:39,900 --> 01:17:42,020
I just worry about tires, thinning on steep slopes,

986
01:17:43,220 --> 01:17:47,220
and cutting, you know, developing a stream.

987
01:17:47,220 --> 01:17:52,080
Yeah, I mean we've, personally I've even done one-to-one slopes, I mean typically I

988
01:17:52,080 --> 01:17:56,500
armor those with rip rep because it is so hard to mo but two-to-one we've

989
01:17:56,500 --> 01:18:05,640
seen being able to manage so and you just go through the technical advantage of

990
01:18:05,640 --> 01:18:12,400
having three-to-one versus two-to-one if I understand at the town to request

991
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:22,380
or likes at the C3 to 1, is there a technical reason that a 3 to 1 is better than a 2 to 1?

992
01:18:22,760 --> 01:18:31,420
And then we'll be asked for a waiver, so I just want to have some technical discussion on what is the advantage or disadvantage of that?

993
01:18:31,500 --> 01:18:34,740
So maybe you could just speak to why would we want a 3 to 1?

994
01:18:35,560 --> 01:18:42,000
I think the best analogy I've ever heard for this is, you know, you cook chicken to 165.

995
01:18:42,900 --> 01:18:48,840
Right? You cook chicken to 165. If you look at the FDA guidance for it, you can cook way less than that.

996
01:18:49,220 --> 01:18:56,880
It's kind of wild, but you cook chicken to 165. You only have to keep it there for three seconds, and then you kill anything.

997
01:18:57,320 --> 01:19:01,520
If you cook chicken to 155, you keep it there for two minutes, you're fine.

998
01:19:01,520 --> 01:19:08,280
Right, and this matters to me because I like to smoke me, right? I don't want to dry it out, but at the end of the day, it's kind of the same thing

999
01:19:10,040 --> 01:19:12,300
3 to 1 is the default

1000
01:19:12,300 --> 01:19:19,320
Safe way to go. You publish it for everybody. You try to follow that methodology where you can and where it makes sense because it's just

1001
01:19:19,320 --> 01:19:25,560
It prevents the erotability of the soil naturally when you start getting steeper than 3 to 1 you start to see soil

1002
01:19:25,560 --> 01:19:34,320
road a lot more easily, right? That is the real technical reason for it. The maintenance, the

1003
01:19:34,320 --> 01:19:39,520
mowing, the maintenance definitely gets easier on a on a shallower slope, but you can go to

1004
01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:45,580
two to one if you handle it appropriately and you do it the right way. It still operates just the same way

1005
01:19:45,580 --> 01:19:52,940
as a three to one slope. So is this purely an erosion control or is it a pollutant control or

1006
01:19:52,940 --> 01:19:53,920
some combination.

1007
01:19:55,080 --> 01:20:00,560
Well, if you have erosion, you're basically taking sediment in water and throwing it down

1008
01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:01,380
a hill, right?

1009
01:20:01,380 --> 01:20:05,540
So when we talk about sediment capture in our catch basins, that's what we're talking about.

1010
01:20:05,540 --> 01:20:09,880
We're talking about grabbing the dirt that lives on the pavement, gets picked up by the water

1011
01:20:09,880 --> 01:20:11,740
and flows down hill to our catch basins.

1012
01:20:12,200 --> 01:20:14,100
So it's the same thing, right?

1013
01:20:16,060 --> 01:20:21,320
A erosion has water that picks up dirt and washes it away with itself, right?

1014
01:20:21,320 --> 01:20:26,440
So the concern is a rotability, but that's why we put the erosion mounting not to prevent

1015
01:20:26,440 --> 01:20:27,360
that from happening.

1016
01:20:28,200 --> 01:20:32,720
By putting the erosion mounting down, you're basically making it operate as a 3-to-1 slope

1017
01:20:32,720 --> 01:20:34,400
from an erotability standpoint.

1018
01:20:35,520 --> 01:20:41,000
Most communities I see try to do the 3-to-1, but you don't have to do those extra measures

1019
01:20:41,000 --> 01:20:42,780
on a 3-to-1, right?

1020
01:20:42,840 --> 01:20:45,980
So we're adding those extra measures to make it operate in the same fashion.

1021
01:20:47,240 --> 01:20:57,540
And then on the top portion of that, you're requesting 2 to 1 as well, but there are no catch

1022
01:20:57,540 --> 01:21:02,320
basins or anything on the other side of that 2 to 1. On the south side, it looks like

1023
01:21:02,320 --> 01:21:09,340
there are, but on that side, they're not. This is like a magic eye picture for me, actually,

1024
01:21:09,460 --> 01:21:14,660
because you look at this and you think, oh, we're going downhill. You're not. This is sloping

1025
01:21:14,660 --> 01:21:16,380
from the top to the bottom by this plant.

1026
01:21:17,820 --> 01:21:20,120
And it's confusing because you would think it would go to the well.

1027
01:21:20,860 --> 01:21:25,940
But the natural course right now is we have a knob here that we're knocking down and

1028
01:21:25,940 --> 01:21:30,620
we're bringing this gray down to, you know, these, these, these grades we show here.

1029
01:21:31,560 --> 01:21:37,340
You know, it's about a 20 foot cut at its highest part, so we're bringing this all down.

1030
01:21:37,640 --> 01:21:42,340
So on that, it's actually sloping like this, correct, towards the cause there is sloping

1031
01:21:42,340 --> 01:21:47,220
this way into your catch basins. Correct. So this is the total top of the bottom at the

1032
01:21:47,220 --> 01:21:53,620
bottom. Yep. And you actually end up with sort of a a ridge line here. This is hard to see.

1033
01:21:54,480 --> 01:21:59,000
But you zoom in a little more essentially that green line that follows the contours. That's the

1034
01:21:59,000 --> 01:22:06,320
ridge line. And you can see the contour levels right there. One 25, one 30, one 35. So you can see

1035
01:22:07,380 --> 01:22:18,330
It's uphill coming into the down into the side right out there right now is like this and then this is our proposed site right and we're down here right

1036
01:22:21,340 --> 01:22:22,040
That's

1037
01:22:22,040 --> 01:22:26,180
Does the town have any thoughts on this? I mean I

1038
01:22:30,140 --> 01:22:40,700
Our on-board experts are absent tonight. So, if you have caution, I would say let's hold the discussion to another meeting with regards to that.

1039
01:22:41,200 --> 01:22:51,000
Yeah, I think the one thing, the two-to-one slope put in a non-stabilized system, that's right at angle, we're very near angle of repose, for sediment, where it'll self-abelange.

1040
01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:58,260
So that's why the stabilization is really important, some kind of erosion, adding to protect

1041
01:22:58,260 --> 01:23:05,260
the rainfall from really just triggering those good down-slope, natural down-slope movement.

1042
01:23:06,100 --> 01:23:09,720
So that's why most towns look for something better than two to one.

1043
01:23:09,960 --> 01:23:19,220
It's right at that sweet spot where sand will just handle it, and then, how long does the erosion

1044
01:23:19,220 --> 01:23:28,680
Madden last. Depending on what you specify, but anywhere from 18 months to three years, it's

1045
01:23:28,680 --> 01:23:35,740
fire degradable. So, Green American North, I believe, is the company, and they have different

1046
01:23:35,740 --> 01:23:44,400
levels that you can install, and it would be something typical we do at 18 to two month

1047
01:23:44,400 --> 01:23:49,440
and that's a two years, excuse me, and that's enough time to get the seed to germinate

1048
01:23:49,440 --> 01:23:53,260
and really stabilize that slope before it disintegrates.

1049
01:23:53,480 --> 01:23:55,300
Yeah, that's the critical component, right?

1050
01:23:55,300 --> 01:23:59,180
The emotion of adding exists for the plants to take hold.

1051
01:23:59,180 --> 01:24:00,980
Once the plants take hold, the roots hold everything.

1052
01:24:02,080 --> 01:24:08,020
So it's a temporary need, and once it grows in, we're in good shape.

1053
01:24:10,300 --> 01:24:13,800
It's not something you have to replace every 18 months or three years in other words, right?

1054
01:24:19,030 --> 01:24:26,330
I think what we want to do, though, I don't think we want to make a decision on this one tonight.

1055
01:24:27,190 --> 01:24:28,910
We don't expect a vote by any means.

1056
01:24:29,110 --> 01:24:31,910
This can all come when we're prepared here.

1057
01:24:32,030 --> 01:24:33,670
We don't have a peer review back yet, right?

1058
01:24:33,670 --> 01:24:35,070
I'm sure that'll speak to it as well.

1059
01:24:35,850 --> 01:24:38,850
Those two particular people would be very upset.

1060
01:24:39,670 --> 01:24:39,890
Yeah.

1061
01:24:39,890 --> 01:24:44,810
And so with regards to the two conditional uses,

1062
01:24:45,030 --> 01:24:48,490
we had one for activities in the wetlands.

1063
01:24:49,590 --> 01:24:52,350
I actually have one too, but.

1064
01:24:52,350 --> 01:24:54,890
And that one, we're still waiting to hear back

1065
01:24:54,890 --> 01:24:56,970
from the Conservation Commission on.

1066
01:24:58,070 --> 01:25:00,710
So unless all I want to do with this is,

1067
01:25:01,030 --> 01:25:03,090
if there's anything that folks think

1068
01:25:03,090 --> 01:25:05,730
the Conservation Commission would not be looking at

1069
01:25:05,730 --> 01:25:09,110
that they are interested in, make it known now.

1070
01:25:09,110 --> 01:25:09,810
All

1071
01:25:12,910 --> 01:25:21,850
right, for that in the wetland fill, now the warehouse use, we can, that is a can, by

1072
01:25:21,850 --> 01:25:30,750
conditional use, anybody had, I mean, do we, what are people's thoughts on, on the warehouse?

1073
01:25:31,770 --> 01:25:37,390
Julian, can we establish firmly that we're not talking or they're not talking about the

1074
01:25:37,390 --> 01:25:45,150
of the possibility of artificial intelligence data setter?

1075
01:25:47,500 --> 01:25:55,220
We were talking about putting in an exclusion.

1076
01:25:56,180 --> 01:25:58,300
Well, they have...

1077
01:25:58,300 --> 01:25:59,860
Do you do do do do?

1078
01:26:00,000 --> 01:26:00,480
Where is it?

1079
01:26:00,480 --> 01:26:01,720
Where is it just only that?

1080
01:26:01,720 --> 01:26:03,060
No, that's not it.

1081
01:26:03,620 --> 01:26:08,220
There was a water usage limitation

1082
01:26:08,220 --> 01:26:13,260
that if they go over, they need to come back to us, right?

1083
01:26:15,450 --> 01:26:23,190
Would they go to a committee and they make a recommendation to the town council so that

1084
01:26:23,190 --> 01:26:27,950
will, if the council hasn't addressed that, that will be a precedent condition?

1085
01:26:31,230 --> 01:26:32,370
I'm not sure, I'm not a dancer.

1086
01:26:32,370 --> 01:26:33,130
Well,

1087
01:26:35,630 --> 01:26:47,960
when it comes to an AI data center use that you're talking about, you don't die.

1088
01:26:48,560 --> 01:26:49,420
They're not set.

1089
01:26:50,160 --> 01:26:50,880
They're not.

1090
01:26:50,880 --> 01:26:50,900
Yeah.

1091
01:26:50,900 --> 01:26:51,700
That was our heat.

1092
01:26:53,040 --> 01:26:55,460
These buildings are not set up for, really.

1093
01:26:55,500 --> 01:26:56,740
What do you send out there?

1094
01:26:57,520 --> 01:27:05,300
They're not structurally, because that's to do that, the cooling systems you need and everything else.

1095
01:27:05,300 --> 01:27:06,060
Not set out.

1096
01:27:06,060 --> 01:27:18,060
I have a different type of building, but, and my comment about the site planary view regarding

1097
01:27:18,060 --> 01:27:28,820
water usage is that there will be, if there is a certain, when we were talking about

1098
01:27:28,820 --> 01:27:31,520
a use like that, you're thinking about what's the impact, right?

1099
01:27:32,040 --> 01:27:35,760
Yeah, and so what impacts are you concerned about

1100
01:27:38,740 --> 01:27:42,160
that the many possible, but this would be a small.

1101
01:27:42,880 --> 01:27:47,640
I admit this would be a small possibility for a data center.

1102
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:55,800
But this is a bigger issue than tonight.

1103
01:27:55,800 --> 01:28:05,740
I'm responding, I'm asking this part partly in connection with Michael's response to

1104
01:28:05,740 --> 01:28:14,880
Mr. Calderwood, who asked whether it was possible or impossible to have a data centre

1105
01:28:15,580 --> 01:28:17,540
at the technology lab site.

1106
01:28:18,660 --> 01:28:24,800
So, I think it would be useful for the board to get some clarification on this.

1107
01:28:26,580 --> 01:28:32,020
Whether, and I think there's different kinds of data centers, there's different scales of data centers.

1108
01:28:33,740 --> 01:28:39,300
But I think it would be, and I'm not sure whether any of those would be allowed under our current zoning.

1109
01:28:39,960 --> 01:28:48,160
As I had mentioned, the three sort of uses that might encompass it are office, light manufacturing, and warehouse.

1110
01:28:49,100 --> 01:28:53,180
And I don't think office would, light manufacturing, might arguably.

1111
01:28:54,100 --> 01:29:17,860
So, but I do think it would be useful for the board whether tonight or another time to be clear about what a data center is, the different kinds of data centers, and if it would be appropriate or not, and I think you may want to have a condition on an approval that would prohibit them.

1112
01:29:18,680 --> 01:29:24,200
We'd have to have a good reason, and we'd want to have a discussion with the applicant.

1113
01:29:24,900 --> 01:29:31,180
But I suspect that the kind of data centers we're thinking of would not be appropriate.

1114
01:29:31,400 --> 01:29:33,960
The applicant probably would not entertain that.

1115
01:29:34,260 --> 01:29:38,020
And I suspect that we could come up with some language that would work.

1116
01:29:38,080 --> 01:29:38,580
I disagree.

1117
01:29:39,700 --> 01:29:42,440
I don't think we could come up with some language that would work.

1118
01:29:43,400 --> 01:29:49,200
Because it's a way too complicated, it's a very, very complicated issue.

1119
01:29:49,980 --> 01:29:59,940
It's best handled as from the viewpoint of not treating it as a data center, but treating it as a...

1120
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:18,900
They use, because we're going to say you can't do a greater data center than we'd also want to say you can't do a greenhouse, because a greenhouse, which I believe is allowed in that zone, would have potentially just as much water usage and electrical usage as a moderate data center.

1121
01:30:18,900 --> 01:30:29,230
I think could I make a suggestion which is why my point of it's the impacts you want to look at and restrict not the use

1122
01:30:30,880 --> 01:30:40,340
It would probably be intelligent for this board to become more educated on data centers, but I think that is completely separate from this

1123
01:30:41,280 --> 01:30:46,540
I think there's a lot of fear about data centers, but when you look at this site, you're

1124
01:30:46,540 --> 01:30:54,900
not even investing in anything that would, what you're investing in, wouldn't be needed

1125
01:30:54,900 --> 01:31:00,900
by the data center. And you're not set up for it. And to really make money data is these things

1126
01:31:00,900 --> 01:31:08,300
a huge, these things are huge. And so that site is really not set up for that anyway, so I don't

1127
01:31:08,300 --> 01:31:13,740
I think it's going to help us if we add a fear of something we're not really educated in.

1128
01:31:13,860 --> 01:31:16,480
And so I think when it comes to data centers, it's very hot right now.

1129
01:31:16,720 --> 01:31:20,440
It would probably do this for a lot of good if we could have some kind of presentation.

1130
01:31:20,960 --> 01:31:25,220
We could do some research to understand what it is and what the true impacts are.

1131
01:31:25,580 --> 01:31:28,260
So that we can create in zoning allowed or not.

1132
01:31:28,300 --> 01:31:31,220
I was going to bring this up next week.

1133
01:31:32,100 --> 01:31:32,300
Okay.

1134
01:31:32,780 --> 01:31:36,380
Because it doesn't belong to an applicant's degree.

1135
01:31:36,380 --> 01:31:44,420
discussion. But the New Hampshire Association of Regional Planning Commission has put together

1136
01:31:44,420 --> 01:31:53,700
their first draft of what planning boards need to do regarding data centers. It's in the process

1137
01:31:53,700 --> 01:32:00,000
of getting signed off, but I'm hoping I could have it in our hands by next meeting. That would be great.

1138
01:32:00,000 --> 01:32:03,840
Okay, but I don't think it's any good to do it this way.

1139
01:32:03,860 --> 01:32:04,880
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

1140
01:32:05,360 --> 01:32:11,200
And that said, I hope other members of the board will read the white paper.

1141
01:32:11,460 --> 01:32:18,140
You said last week, and you should all have it.

1142
01:32:18,140 --> 01:32:19,660
It's worth reading.

1143
01:32:19,860 --> 01:32:21,600
It is very one-sided.

1144
01:32:24,060 --> 01:32:25,440
So, let's move on.

1145
01:32:25,440 --> 01:32:31,180
and it will be the first of many because there's another eight there'll be part of next

1146
01:32:31,180 --> 01:32:31,420
week.

1147
01:32:32,100 --> 01:32:33,000
The next thing.

1148
01:32:33,000 --> 01:32:39,200
Oh, we're about to have the open the public hearing and then continue it till the next

1149
01:32:39,840 --> 01:32:40,360
time.

1150
01:32:41,540 --> 01:32:43,940
We public hearing is already open for this.

1151
01:32:43,980 --> 01:32:44,840
Has it been open?

1152
01:32:45,860 --> 01:32:48,140
Well, this didn't we have it?

1153
01:32:48,480 --> 01:32:49,020
It's continued.

1154
01:32:49,440 --> 01:32:49,700
It's continued.

1155
01:32:49,900 --> 01:32:51,140
I mean, does anybody have one?

1156
01:32:51,340 --> 01:32:51,560
I'll speak.

1157
01:32:52,040 --> 01:32:53,100
I'll open the public hearing.

1158
01:32:53,440 --> 01:32:53,460
Yes.

1159
01:32:53,720 --> 01:32:54,700
I will open the public hearing.

1160
01:32:54,700 --> 01:32:58,700
Is there anyone who would like to speak regarding this?

1161
01:32:59,580 --> 01:33:01,180
Does this pick the specifics?

1162
01:33:01,920 --> 01:33:03,340
Do we have anybody on Zoom?

1163
01:33:05,060 --> 01:33:05,940
No hands up.

1164
01:33:06,140 --> 01:33:06,720
No hands up.

1165
01:33:07,020 --> 01:33:07,340
All right.

1166
01:33:08,020 --> 01:33:12,800
What I was hoping to do is though is to talk about building height and the warehouse uses,

1167
01:33:12,920 --> 01:33:20,400
conditional uses to see if we have any besides the idea that is that a warehouse

1168
01:33:20,400 --> 01:33:21,500
or could be a data center.

1169
01:33:21,500 --> 01:33:25,720
Are there other issues around the warehouse use?

1170
01:33:26,420 --> 01:33:32,720
I mean, I'm really not sure why we restrict warehouse use.

1171
01:33:32,740 --> 01:33:39,340
Oh, I think the reason that in some of those zones,

1172
01:33:39,960 --> 01:33:43,400
that light manufacturing office use is a lot by right

1173
01:33:43,400 --> 01:33:45,360
whereas warehouses are conditionally used.

1174
01:33:46,100 --> 01:33:54,940
It's probably the general, the town would prefer light manufacturing high technology, R&D,

1175
01:33:55,180 --> 01:33:57,020
office use, to wear house use.

1176
01:33:57,280 --> 01:34:01,980
It employs fewer people, probably has less value, may generate more truck traffic.

1177
01:34:03,060 --> 01:34:08,580
So there probably is a general preference, for light manufacturing, overwear house.

1178
01:34:09,340 --> 01:34:10,960
We'll see how this plays out.

1179
01:34:12,280 --> 01:34:13,820
It's probably going to be a mix.

1180
01:34:15,560 --> 01:34:18,160
But I think that's the reason it's conditional use.

1181
01:34:19,950 --> 01:34:21,070
My request.

1182
01:34:21,890 --> 01:34:26,290
So on the use question, the only thing that's sort of haunting

1183
01:34:26,290 --> 01:34:28,250
me from the presentation we had previously

1184
01:34:28,250 --> 01:34:30,090
with regard to the travel, which I know

1185
01:34:30,090 --> 01:34:32,350
where you have a consultant that's going to give us a report

1186
01:34:32,350 --> 01:34:36,210
and review all that relates, though, to the issue in terms

1187
01:34:36,210 --> 01:34:40,090
of what the use is, that the use code, I think,

1188
01:34:40,090 --> 01:34:46,590
was 10 that they, or maybe was 1-10 that the traffic engineer picked, so she said that the time

1189
01:34:46,590 --> 01:34:51,850
that was the maximum. But the question is sort of still in my mind, I asked this question

1190
01:34:51,850 --> 01:34:57,130
at the site walk, is whether or not it might wind up and when I would call a retail distribution

1191
01:34:57,630 --> 01:35:03,250
level as opposed to a wholesale, and my verb, you know what else is, if it's tractor-trail or

1192
01:35:03,250 --> 01:35:06,150
tractor-trailer, that's one thing that's limited number tractor-trailer is going to come

1193
01:35:06,150 --> 01:35:11,330
go because they're so big. If a tractor trail comes in and small vans going out to deliver,

1194
01:35:11,810 --> 01:35:15,650
it can be a whole lot more vans than you would have if it was just all tractor trails

1195
01:35:15,650 --> 01:35:21,610
in and out. And that's question still in my mind. In terms of how it, the bearing would

1196
01:35:21,610 --> 01:35:24,790
have on the actual traffic counts and what that might mean with that.

1197
01:35:24,790 --> 01:35:29,270
Which I realized is going to be addressed in the future, but I'm just related to the use that

1198
01:35:29,270 --> 01:35:32,050
was a question I just want to put on the record right now as a concern.

1199
01:35:34,510 --> 01:35:40,610
And I second that as well, only because no matter where that traffic goes, it's all going to go down

1200
01:35:40,610 --> 01:35:56,250
technology drive. And you do have 600 students living right there on technology drive. And when I look at that road and I imagine traffic going all day back and forth there, I think pedestrians could be better served in terms of some access.

1201
01:35:56,770 --> 01:36:00,210
And it may not be all day, it may be a burst in the morning and then a burst in the afternoon.

1202
01:36:00,210 --> 01:36:05,270
quite possible either way a lot of trucks I know you know I'm not pre-supposing anything but I know

1203
01:36:05,270 --> 01:36:11,430
Amazon's delivering things at my house at four o'clock in the morning and you know they're so so there's a lot of

1204
01:36:11,430 --> 01:36:19,330
activity depending on what what goes in there yeah all right what about building height

1205
01:36:21,440 --> 01:36:22,380
are there any

1206
01:36:22,380 --> 01:36:27,560
issues with building just building going to be higher than any of the trees around there

1207
01:36:29,020 --> 01:36:33,720
50 feet probably, no. I don't think everybody's got to see it.

1208
01:36:34,340 --> 01:36:35,840
It's hard to see that site.

1209
01:36:36,500 --> 01:36:36,860
Yeah, you are.

1210
01:36:37,020 --> 01:36:37,600
Unless you're in it.

1211
01:36:39,000 --> 01:36:41,880
And you better remember there's a significant cut for those barons too.

1212
01:36:45,820 --> 01:36:51,760
Because we're short handed and we require five days for addition use.

1213
01:36:51,980 --> 01:36:54,020
I don't recommend you go for an action.

1214
01:36:54,140 --> 01:36:55,360
No, that's all you.

1215
01:36:55,360 --> 01:36:56,640
I think it's a big action.

1216
01:36:57,300 --> 01:36:59,540
On condition of use is what I have seven votes,

1217
01:36:59,780 --> 01:37:00,380
voting members.

1218
01:37:04,220 --> 01:37:10,260
So we regards to that to reiterate,

1219
01:37:10,740 --> 01:37:12,220
we're waiting on a conservation commission.

1220
01:37:12,480 --> 01:37:15,620
We're guarding the two wetland-related ones.

1221
01:37:16,400 --> 01:37:17,840
There's some concerns about,

1222
01:37:18,500 --> 01:37:20,480
and I believe the term that was always

1223
01:37:20,480 --> 01:37:25,300
by a traffic study person was Amazon style warehouse.

1224
01:37:27,280 --> 01:37:28,520
And...

1225
01:37:28,520 --> 01:37:29,720
That's it.

1226
01:37:30,000 --> 01:37:32,280
But building height looks to be not an issue.

1227
01:37:34,420 --> 01:37:42,000
I will say, you know, I'm happy to provide our knowledge to this board regarding data centers at

1228
01:37:42,000 --> 01:37:50,020
what point that you choose to explore that item. With respect to last mile distribution or all the

1229
01:37:50,020 --> 01:37:55,540
different types of facilities that Amazon uses, we've had experienced developing Amazon facilities before.

1230
01:37:55,540 --> 01:38:06,780
They are extremely particular about how they operate and there would be immense changes to this site in order to accommodate anything that they would want to do in particular.

1231
01:38:07,080 --> 01:38:09,480
And I know I'm citing them specifically.

1232
01:38:10,180 --> 01:38:21,140
They're also, you know, we got to talk about how this board would qualify FedEx or DHL or those types of delivery companies as well.

1233
01:38:21,140 --> 01:38:28,040
Because, essentially, they do operate in a similar fashion, they're not sending out fleets of vans, right?

1234
01:38:28,580 --> 01:38:32,760
But they do have, you know, you can picture your PS track, leaving you in the facility.

1235
01:38:33,740 --> 01:38:40,120
So, I will have our traffic engineer speak to that when we come back and we return to have the traffic conversation.

1236
01:38:40,760 --> 01:38:47,840
I do know that light industrial is very close and mimics those from my understanding, but I don't want to miss speak.

1237
01:38:47,840 --> 01:38:54,140
So I think when it comes to data centers,

1238
01:38:54,340 --> 01:38:57,460
the only one thing I'll say, we have no intention of doing that here.

1239
01:38:58,180 --> 01:39:05,140
At this time, however, it's time has a way of changing things,

1240
01:39:05,400 --> 01:39:08,600
and it could be a very long time away from when we even

1241
01:39:08,600 --> 01:39:11,340
on the building, or I'm even alive, that this site could be repurposed.

1242
01:39:11,560 --> 01:39:12,760
So I fully understand the question.

1243
01:39:13,280 --> 01:39:15,420
It's something I do suggest the board get front of.

1244
01:39:15,420 --> 01:39:22,280
But the good news is these facilities require a lot of water and not only does this board

1245
01:39:22,280 --> 01:39:25,160
have to weigh in, but the city council will have to weigh in on that as well.

1246
01:39:25,600 --> 01:39:29,700
So the town retains a ton of control when it comes to that sort of thing.

1247
01:39:30,240 --> 01:39:36,440
Per Mr. Charibely, if you mentioned something about restricting the water here, so if that

1248
01:39:36,440 --> 01:39:40,520
becomes a condition, there's a lot of certainty for this board in the public about what

1249
01:39:40,520 --> 01:39:43,100
can go here without further conversation.

1250
01:39:43,100 --> 01:39:51,800
All right, thank you, was there anything else that we were going to cover to?

1251
01:39:51,800 --> 01:40:01,760
Well, you have the wetland scientist here, and the conditions for the WCD includes both your

1252
01:40:01,760 --> 01:40:09,140
purview over filling of the wetlands, which is there's some proposal there, as well as activity

1253
01:40:09,140 --> 01:40:10,380
within the wetland buffer.

1254
01:40:11,820 --> 01:40:20,740
So I know, you've spoken before, but it's probably a good time to ask, you know, for you to explain a little more and respond to any questions.

1255
01:40:22,100 --> 01:40:23,640
Mr. Chair, does that make sense?

1256
01:40:23,920 --> 01:40:27,420
I, if there are any particular questions.

1257
01:40:28,100 --> 01:40:35,080
I mean, we've been shown the two fingers, I believe it was two fingers, that we're going to get filled in.

1258
01:40:40,710 --> 01:40:48,830
Yeah, my plan, if I was asked to do so, would be to first ask.

1259
01:40:48,930 --> 01:40:56,450
If there was any questions from the site walk, as has been noted, we still have conclude

1260
01:40:56,450 --> 01:41:01,530
our work with the Conservation Commission next Tuesday, I believe,

1261
01:41:04,270 --> 01:41:05,190
where I think when maybe

1262
01:41:05,190 --> 01:41:11,470
get a little bit more detailed with some of the things that came up during the site walk.

1263
01:41:13,930 --> 01:41:21,050
Generally, we saw almost all of the impact areas. I don't believe we walked up to the

1264
01:41:21,050 --> 01:41:24,750
tiny little triangle in the northern edge of the site.

1265
01:41:27,410 --> 01:41:30,990
But generally, I hope it was clear

1266
01:41:30,990 --> 01:41:40,930
was my intention to demonstrate that these areas where impacts are posed, well, wetlands

1267
01:41:40,930 --> 01:41:46,650
and certainly important in context of water quality given the proximity that oyster river,

1268
01:41:47,870 --> 01:41:49,750
were not, in fact,

1269
01:41:52,520 --> 01:41:57,180
significant in a lot of other, for a lot of other function.

1270
01:41:57,180 --> 01:42:04,320
And the importance of that would be some of what's discussed here with respect to storm

1271
01:42:04,320 --> 01:42:05,100
work controls.

1272
01:42:07,240 --> 01:42:17,280
And the level and quality of what's being proposed will mitigate any small potential effects

1273
01:42:17,280 --> 01:42:25,680
from impacts to these, you know, fingers and edges that are well upgraded from the core

1274
01:42:25,680 --> 01:42:33,840
of wetland, where it's wetter, and which are likely performing the bulk of that function.

1275
01:42:37,280 --> 01:42:38,900
That really is the key point.

1276
01:42:39,000 --> 01:42:57,550
There was some other discussion regarding the possibility that the well into the north would be a

1277
01:42:57,550 --> 01:43:03,210
more detailed conversation with the Conservation Commission. I think that's probably appropriate.

1278
01:43:06,510 --> 01:43:12,930
But I and I understand the concern, but the soils, the nature of the soils here,

1279
01:43:12,930 --> 01:43:21,910
is demonstrated by the soil survey, the site specific soil survey that was done for the project,

1280
01:43:23,450 --> 01:43:32,290
It indicates that the soils in this area are such that the water table in that wetland

1281
01:43:32,290 --> 01:43:40,310
is perched and that below that is very, very low permeability for those soils.

1282
01:43:40,450 --> 01:43:44,510
They are just poorly drained, dense mineral soils.

1283
01:43:45,590 --> 01:43:55,190
So that is really just a run-off area and it's really not connected to groundwater in a way that would

1284
01:43:55,190 --> 01:44:00,910
pose a risk of having to be de-watered by cutting into that slope.

1285
01:44:01,710 --> 01:44:05,810
In addition, there's a burn on top which would prevent it from actually spilling over.

1286
01:44:06,970 --> 01:44:17,030
So that's sort of the gist of, you know, that concerns what really wanted only concerns

1287
01:44:17,030 --> 01:44:18,730
it was voiced at the site walk.

1288
01:44:18,930 --> 01:44:25,070
So again, I guess I'd ask if there was any specific questions I could answer and I will

1289
01:44:25,070 --> 01:44:29,290
likely be back to ask again.

1290
01:44:32,240 --> 01:44:32,400
Peter?

1291
01:44:32,400 --> 01:44:41,160
I ran into the yellow jacket before I made it down into the room, and I bought it at that point.

1292
01:44:41,520 --> 01:44:53,220
Is there any, so I didn't see this for myself? Is there any indication that there is a femoral, you know, intermittent flow into any of those fingers, spring run off kind of thing?

1293
01:44:53,220 --> 01:44:59,980
Or is it all just, you know, forced to let them, so is it all based on soils? Are there any indication of fruit?

1294
01:45:02,400 --> 01:45:13,080
You mean as far as like a viral pool? No, you know, these are all, all these fingers are upslowed from

1295
01:45:13,080 --> 01:45:19,660
Yeh, whatland is. And I was just wondering if there is any indication that the topography was controlling

1296
01:45:19,660 --> 01:45:25,080
any small channelized flow that is showing up on your wide art data.

1297
01:45:25,380 --> 01:45:28,240
Is this a question about stream presence?

1298
01:45:28,240 --> 01:45:36,220
Yeah, you know, it's a well-streamed, very ephemeral runoff kind of streams that are

1299
01:45:36,220 --> 01:45:37,860
better feeding down through there.

1300
01:45:38,220 --> 01:45:40,540
Yeah, I think, you know, and you can probably speak to this question.

1301
01:45:40,540 --> 01:45:42,300
And this may be a con-con question.

1302
01:45:43,120 --> 01:45:45,200
Well, it's your question, too.

1303
01:45:45,540 --> 01:45:51,300
So we're happy to answer it, but you know, when it comes to perennial intermittent stream measurements

1304
01:45:51,300 --> 01:45:56,140
and all those things, I mean, an intermittent stream usually exists in sort of a springtime

1305
01:45:56,140 --> 01:46:02,200
season where it flows pretty consistently during those, those, those seasons, right?

1306
01:46:02,580 --> 01:46:06,320
When it typically rains a little bit more, water isn't going to go into the ground as much

1307
01:46:06,320 --> 01:46:08,180
because it's still falling out, things like that.

1308
01:46:08,500 --> 01:46:15,000
These are more water happens to just use this path of flow to get to where it needs to go,

1309
01:46:15,060 --> 01:46:24,780
those wetland systems, and it's not anything that I've seen in the, I don't know,

1310
01:46:24,780 --> 01:46:26,760
that are just, you know, can you see it?

1311
01:46:26,760 --> 01:46:29,100
Yeah, there's water is flowing down through wheat litter.

1312
01:46:29,600 --> 01:46:32,740
So the only place where,

1313
01:46:34,960 --> 01:46:38,620
so when we, it's sometimes not that helpful

1314
01:46:38,620 --> 01:46:41,840
to talk, well, perennial stream to maybe stand out.

1315
01:46:43,380 --> 01:46:48,400
The obvious difference is that they exist all the time.

1316
01:46:50,520 --> 01:46:52,820
Other streams interment in a femoral,

1317
01:46:52,820 --> 01:47:03,100
You know, those are basically all different ways of describing something that has a flowed enough

1318
01:47:03,100 --> 01:47:06,080
on the surface to create a channel,

1319
01:47:08,120 --> 01:47:11,900
you know, which could, usually specifically excludes

1320
01:47:11,900 --> 01:47:18,360
the concept of Rosen, like we were talking about earlier, but essentially that's the same thing.

1321
01:47:19,700 --> 01:47:27,060
The large finger in the south west corner, there's no channel there.

1322
01:47:28,620 --> 01:47:41,240
I was, we were down there trying to explain that I probably went up about as high as you could bring that as far as soils and vegetation.

1323
01:47:42,400 --> 01:47:55,380
Besides hydrology there, would be very slight indications of surface saturation,

1324
01:47:57,400 --> 01:47:58,360
probably during

1325
01:47:58,360 --> 01:48:00,100
the limited spring season.

1326
01:48:01,840 --> 01:48:07,740
The other areas are, there's no room for a stream really to exist in any of those areas.

1327
01:48:07,740 --> 01:48:34,340
That impact is essentially caused, or that triangle, which is constitutes the impact area was essentially created by a couple of large trees which are blown down and taken a lot of soil with them, thereby lowering the grade enough where that area is now wet.

1328
01:48:35,500 --> 01:48:45,400
There is, yeah, in this area, which is the small isolated area, is by definition, there's no flow in or out of that area,

1329
01:48:47,920 --> 01:49:03,120
there is a channel not anywhere near to our impact in that northern wetland, but it does, as it gets down on the steep proportion of that hill,

1330
01:49:03,120 --> 01:49:07,640
as it approaches the Oyster River wetlands.

1331
01:49:09,320 --> 01:49:12,300
It did, that does create a channel in that area.

1332
01:49:12,780 --> 01:49:14,840
That's a very mainstream impact there.

1333
01:49:16,920 --> 01:49:20,200
And of course, we're well-weight from that.

1334
01:49:26,290 --> 01:49:27,090
Any other questions?

1335
01:49:40,460 --> 01:49:41,420
I'd like to come tonight, right?

1336
01:49:41,780 --> 01:49:42,160
Yeah.

1337
01:49:43,200 --> 01:49:46,420
I'd just like to commend the applicant for the presentation on the stormwater.

1338
01:49:46,420 --> 01:49:48,380
I thought that was very coherently presented.

1339
01:49:48,580 --> 01:49:49,920
Thank you.

1340
01:49:49,980 --> 01:49:50,400
Thank you.

1341
01:49:51,060 --> 01:49:51,700
Totally agree.

1342
01:49:52,180 --> 01:49:52,480
That was excellent.

1343
01:49:53,160 --> 01:49:54,060
Thank you very much.

1344
01:49:55,340 --> 01:50:00,880
So Mr. Chair, I think it'd be helpful to talk a little bit about scheduling.

1345
01:50:03,140 --> 01:50:07,120
This is on the agenda for the Conservation Commission next Tuesday.

1346
01:50:08,260 --> 01:50:11,100
But the Commission has a very busy agenda.

1347
01:50:11,840 --> 01:50:14,000
And I'm probably only have 20 minutes or so.

1348
01:50:14,000 --> 01:50:18,440
I think it's very unlikely they're going to make their recommendation for the conditional use,

1349
01:50:18,820 --> 01:50:25,360
but hopefully that will happen at the October 26th meeting, so the planning boards up coming

1350
01:50:25,360 --> 01:50:33,180
meetings are in two weeks on October 14th, October 28th, and then you have one meeting in November

1351
01:50:33,180 --> 01:50:42,020
and one meeting in December, and I'm retiring November 30th, but if this is not completed before I go,

1352
01:50:42,900 --> 01:50:49,860
I will have a draft notice to the board and the my successor. So you'll be able to

1353
01:50:49,860 --> 01:50:51,060
finalize details.

1354
01:50:54,380 --> 01:51:00,760
So I'm not seeing any real significant obstacles but there's a

1355
01:51:00,760 --> 01:51:06,260
lot of small things and my sense is that it's probably useful to continue to the

1356
01:51:07,540 --> 01:51:16,220
14th, go over miscellaneous issues, and then depending on the timing of the stormwater consultant

1357
01:51:16,220 --> 01:51:21,720
and the traffic consultant, you might be ready for final action, maybe November.

1358
01:51:23,400 --> 01:51:25,020
If not, hopefully December.

1359
01:51:28,120 --> 01:51:34,420
I'm hoping that we can start taking action on some of the conditional uses by October 28th.

1360
01:51:34,420 --> 01:51:34,420
you

1361
01:51:37,200 --> 01:51:42,700
know, if we get all emissive, you know, so you said missile, so we have missile

1362
01:51:42,700 --> 01:51:50,260
any stuff and then traffic and stormwater, um, I think that's, I think that's it.

1363
01:51:50,300 --> 01:51:58,560
Third party reviews, and, um, and after that we should be able to be coming to a

1364
01:51:58,560 --> 01:52:06,640
decision, and if we're only waiting, I would say, let the conservation commission know

1365
01:52:06,640 --> 01:52:08,740
we really need their response on October 20th.

1366
01:52:08,760 --> 01:52:11,640
Well, I think they know that because

1367
01:52:13,660 --> 01:52:16,000
I'm not sure I'm going to want a week for them after

1368
01:52:16,000 --> 01:52:16,240
that.

1369
01:52:16,280 --> 01:52:18,160
No, I think they understand that.

1370
01:52:21,160 --> 01:52:29,500
So do you want to continue to recognize and there's four more meetings for the rest of

1371
01:52:29,500 --> 01:52:29,720
2020?

1372
01:52:30,000 --> 01:52:33,340
Six, is it useful to continue to the 14th?

1373
01:52:33,340 --> 01:52:36,100
I'd like to continue to do the 14th, just to keep them.

1374
01:52:36,120 --> 01:52:40,860
You know, we can tie up everything that we're not waiting on somebody else for.

1375
01:52:41,800 --> 01:52:43,880
That's good. That's the general idea.

1376
01:52:44,260 --> 01:52:48,320
Tie all that up so that as people come in and finish their reviews,

1377
01:52:49,400 --> 01:52:52,780
we're ready to take a money immediately.

1378
01:52:53,480 --> 01:52:55,000
I think that makes sense.

1379
01:52:56,360 --> 01:52:57,040
That work for you?

1380
01:52:57,040 --> 01:53:01,180
Yeah, I was going to suggest that it's always better to be on the agenda than off, right?

1381
01:53:01,280 --> 01:53:03,600
If we fall off, then you guys just have a shorter meeting.

1382
01:53:04,720 --> 01:53:13,400
I do know we're also chasing down the exact process of presenting our water usage to town council as well.

1383
01:53:13,920 --> 01:53:16,120
So we'll be working towards that.

1384
01:53:16,180 --> 01:53:17,780
Hopefully we'll have some resolution on that.

1385
01:53:17,920 --> 01:53:25,840
I'm not sure of the timing on that yet, but Kees Nordstrom and Bridget and Matt will be reaching out to set that up.

1386
01:53:26,680 --> 01:53:40,720
But I believe Rich Rhine also wanted to review the water against their timeline model, so that's another thing that's in play here that we need to lock up, but I don't know Michael if you've heard back from him on that question.

1387
01:53:40,840 --> 01:53:42,640
We just talked about it today, so.

1388
01:53:42,700 --> 01:53:48,880
Yeah, I mean that was one of the things that Board asked that be looked at, so we'll have to check with Rich.

1389
01:53:49,420 --> 01:53:50,560
Look at all this.

1390
01:53:50,560 --> 01:54:05,700
Because at the end of the technology drive there was work down a couple of years ago, and was that for a new water pumping station or was it sewer?

1391
01:54:05,800 --> 01:54:08,460
It was either water or sewer, and I'm just trying to...

1392
01:54:08,460 --> 01:54:12,660
I believe it was water, but I should be able to tell you that.

1393
01:54:12,940 --> 01:54:20,540
I know that because we have that fairly new main by water standards that comes down through our property by easement.

1394
01:54:20,540 --> 01:54:24,540
So it would make sense that. Oh, there's rich right there.

1395
01:54:25,380 --> 01:54:27,360
I mean, can you help Rich?

1396
01:54:27,800 --> 01:54:30,620
Yeah, that was unrelated to this project.

1397
01:54:30,620 --> 01:54:35,160
That was the technology drive, water pump station,

1398
01:54:35,400 --> 01:54:42,940
and that had to do with the additional capacity and Lee extension that we had to go be circle for the MTE.

1399
01:54:43,360 --> 01:54:43,700
I don't know.

1400
01:54:43,740 --> 01:54:47,340
Funny that we received the DES, but we are working with,

1401
01:54:47,340 --> 01:54:53,840
with engineers. We have a third party consultant doing the review of the water demand. We need

1402
01:54:53,840 --> 01:54:59,040
to get more information from Sean and his team to be able to complete that, but it's moving

1403
01:54:59,040 --> 01:55:06,080
along. And just real quick, on the stormwater piece, we believe we'll probably have draft comments

1404
01:55:06,080 --> 01:55:13,160
from the ours, our third party reviewer at the end of next week, and we're expecting final review

1405
01:55:13,160 --> 01:55:20,000
letter by the fifth of October, barring any unusual circumstances that we see in the storm

1406
01:55:20,000 --> 01:55:25,440
order review and based on what we've seen so far that probably will not be. Traffic,

1407
01:55:26,080 --> 01:55:31,700
engineering, review, the impact study that's in the process of developing a scope and

1408
01:55:31,700 --> 01:55:37,520
fee proposal right now with apex and done and it will be presenting that to Sean and

1409
01:55:37,520 --> 01:55:41,900
his team probably over the next student probably early part middle part of next week.

1410
01:55:41,900 --> 01:55:49,240
So if that review comes back by the fifth, we might be able to have that on the night of the 14th as well.

1411
01:55:49,420 --> 01:55:49,460
Yeah.

1412
01:55:51,720 --> 01:55:52,380
All right.

1413
01:55:54,360 --> 01:55:56,080
Just one other point.

1414
01:55:56,280 --> 01:55:57,480
I'm not sure that you've clarified.

1415
01:55:59,700 --> 01:56:06,260
So there will be certainly a fair amount more traffic on technology drive including truck traffic.

1416
01:56:07,080 --> 01:56:13,700
Are there any concerns for use of technology drive by the 600?

1417
01:56:13,700 --> 01:56:20,820
So, students at the colleges of their safety of any kind of improvements that might be needed

1418
01:56:20,820 --> 01:56:24,160
along there for pedestrians and bicyclists?

1419
01:56:24,580 --> 01:56:29,540
Well, I'm more concerned about the parking that's on there being a problem to the pedestrians

1420
01:56:29,540 --> 01:56:30,800
and cyclists.

1421
01:56:31,300 --> 01:56:38,980
It's the combination of everything there is an issue.

1422
01:56:38,980 --> 01:56:45,760
But I think the problem is right now and there is no effectively, there is no bike lane,

1423
01:56:45,880 --> 01:56:50,760
there is no, there is kind of a walking lane between the parked cars and the curb.

1424
01:56:54,970 --> 01:56:57,230
So, Rich, are you still there?

1425
01:56:57,990 --> 01:57:03,090
I am. I was just going to say as part of any project of this nature, just like the rivers,

1426
01:57:03,330 --> 01:57:09,870
what's project is ongoing right now. We will have a robust traffic management plan as part

1427
01:57:09,870 --> 01:57:15,910
this and we'll ensure that there's safety for pedestrians, cyclists, other vehicles on the roadway,

1428
01:57:16,190 --> 01:57:22,250
and we'll be working with the GC and any of their own folks during that whole process.

1429
01:57:22,690 --> 01:57:28,090
So I don't anticipate that as being a major hurdle to get over, but we'll have to talk with the team

1430
01:57:28,090 --> 01:57:34,510
and the RJ Kelly team to make sure that happens. Well, I'm wondering not during construction,

1431
01:57:34,510 --> 01:57:50,210
But, permanently, if there's any concern about a conflict there with pedestrians and bicyclists on a technology drive, what kind of space there is for them to use.

1432
01:57:51,310 --> 01:57:58,830
Yeah, I think that will all come out during the traffic impact study where third party review will have the full of comments on that.

1433
01:57:58,930 --> 01:58:00,090
Thank you.

1434
01:58:00,810 --> 01:58:01,090
Question?

1435
01:58:03,970 --> 01:58:12,110
in the traffic review from Apex. Will there, is that, is it a normal thing or is it something

1436
01:58:12,110 --> 01:58:17,810
it's within the scope to actually look at pedestrian traffic along 21-tech drive as it

1437
01:58:17,810 --> 01:58:24,150
exists currently? Oh yeah, they would do a pre-construction and post-contruction review of that,

1438
01:58:24,270 --> 01:58:30,230
so that wouldn't be an unusual occurrence and that's what we intend on scoping you know within

1439
01:58:30,230 --> 01:58:32,550
within that third party review.

1440
01:58:33,030 --> 01:58:37,310
So there would be an idea in terms of actual body count going up and down tech drive now.

1441
01:58:38,830 --> 01:58:47,130
It's going to be, you know, we don't have, you know, a pedestrian counter out there to determine exactly what we have for numbers,

1442
01:58:47,370 --> 01:58:53,710
but there will be trip generation numbers likely that they'll be a little, I don't imagine it will be from ITE,

1443
01:58:53,850 --> 01:58:57,110
but it'll be for some source to understand what we have.

1444
01:58:57,110 --> 01:59:01,750
I know there's a bus stop there that's used quite frequently, so we'll have to take all of

1445
01:59:01,750 --> 01:59:06,090
that into a counter in our scope development with APEX.

1446
01:59:07,130 --> 01:59:10,750
Because to the issue of the pedestrian safety, it would seem like having some sort of empirical

1447
01:59:10,750 --> 01:59:13,410
data might be a whole...

1448
01:59:13,410 --> 01:59:16,830
I don't believe we have any pedestrian data for that route.

1449
01:59:17,930 --> 01:59:23,210
But I don't think it takes a whole lot to get pedestrian data either for a few days worth of

1450
01:59:23,210 --> 01:59:23,690
counts.

1451
01:59:24,310 --> 01:59:26,450
It's not a high tech.

1452
01:59:27,170 --> 01:59:32,750
The only difficulty I would see with that is that when I'm looking at that, there's no sidewalk there.

1453
01:59:32,750 --> 01:59:37,570
There's no managed way for pedestrians to get up and down that currently.

1454
01:59:38,650 --> 01:59:42,310
So even in the best case right now, I would say it's dangerous.

1455
01:59:43,730 --> 01:59:51,690
As more traffic is there, it becomes more challenging, I think, for pedestrians to navigate that in the small, you know,

1456
01:59:51,690 --> 01:59:57,830
bike lane sort of walking area that's there not including the addition of the current

1457
01:59:57,830 --> 01:59:58,750
parked cars.

1458
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:05,700
It's a very wide shoulder there, you're right, and that's something that will take into account during the review.

1459
02:00:09,800 --> 02:00:16,740
And just to that point, like typically in the traffic studies, I don't see mention of the pedestrians.

1460
02:00:17,060 --> 02:00:24,560
I see a lot of vehicular analysis, but I don't typically see what's it look like for pedestrians navigating that same space.

1461
02:00:25,200 --> 02:00:29,740
But that's why I asked what not that could be something as part of it because if you're concerned about

1462
02:00:29,740 --> 02:00:33,320
and I don't maybe there's really no pedestrians walking up and down the street.

1463
02:00:33,480 --> 02:00:35,120
Maybe they come out and they go to their cars or something.

1464
02:00:35,300 --> 02:00:36,140
I don't know.

1465
02:00:36,280 --> 02:00:37,480
I'm not sure that anybody knows it.

1466
02:00:37,640 --> 02:00:38,740
It's very few.

1467
02:00:38,960 --> 02:00:40,100
Where's the bus stop?

1468
02:00:40,220 --> 02:00:40,420
Is it?

1469
02:00:40,600 --> 02:00:41,040
That's not technical.

1470
02:00:41,540 --> 02:00:42,140
It's internal.

1471
02:00:42,560 --> 02:00:42,720
It's internal.

1472
02:00:43,040 --> 02:00:43,220
It's internal.

1473
02:00:43,300 --> 02:00:43,700
It's internal.

1474
02:00:46,460 --> 02:00:47,660
The bus stop.

1475
02:00:47,900 --> 02:00:48,940
There are two.

1476
02:00:49,760 --> 02:00:50,000
Yeah.

1477
02:00:50,000 --> 02:00:51,480
Three internal to the colleges.

1478
02:00:51,480 --> 02:00:59,860
Because then there's one, as you're leaving, tech drive just before you get to Main Street.

1479
02:01:00,740 --> 02:01:06,260
And the one that inbound that matches that has floated up and down the hill a little bit,

1480
02:01:06,460 --> 02:01:11,100
but the last year was at the top of the hill of tech drive, as you're coming up and

1481
02:01:11,100 --> 02:01:12,300
it bubbles off.

1482
02:01:13,280 --> 02:01:18,080
But I don't, that would be, that one's a mess, and then they would, and you drop people

1483
02:01:18,080 --> 02:01:23,900
off there, who are trying to go to a real review of apartments back on Main Street, so they

1484
02:01:23,900 --> 02:01:29,400
would be walking down the hill to get back and now, at this point in time, there's not even

1485
02:01:29,400 --> 02:01:34,940
in the current conditions, there's not no space there for them to get off the bus walk down

1486
02:01:34,940 --> 02:01:39,320
the Main Street. Because of the park cars. Because of the park cars. Yeah.

1487
02:01:45,640 --> 02:01:46,000
All right.

1488
02:01:49,060 --> 02:01:50,720
So when they

1489
02:01:50,720 --> 02:01:54,200
We're talking about adding parking spaces on tech drive.

1490
02:01:54,340 --> 02:02:00,180
I didn't realize they're how far down the hill they were going to go with them or

1491
02:02:00,180 --> 02:02:01,940
I would have said something.

1492
02:02:06,420 --> 02:02:08,460
All right, but thank you.

1493
02:02:08,580 --> 02:02:09,260
Thank you.

1494
02:02:09,840 --> 02:02:11,700
We'll see you on the 14th floor.

1495
02:02:25,170 --> 02:02:31,630
And item 10 is the capital improvement program review of proposed 2027 to 2036 CIP with

1496
02:02:31,630 --> 02:02:36,210
the town administrator and Gail Jablansky that business manager.

1497
02:03:00,320 --> 02:03:02,500
Good evening. It's great to see you all.

1498
02:03:02,700 --> 02:03:02,960
Good evening.

1499
02:03:04,520 --> 02:03:10,040
So I am Todd Salig, the administrator here in Durham, and I am a company in person by David and

1500
02:03:10,040 --> 02:03:14,500
Manuel, and then virtually by Richrain and Gail Jablansky.

1501
02:03:15,220 --> 02:03:19,200
Hopefully, Gwyneth can bring up from the screen in some way.

1502
02:03:20,680 --> 02:03:21,840
Okay, great. Thank you.

1503
02:03:23,000 --> 02:03:26,760
So, we are here tonight to talk about the Capital Improvements Program.

1504
02:03:27,420 --> 02:03:28,800
You all have a copy.

1505
02:03:31,580 --> 02:03:34,580
The Capital Improvements Program is a big document.

1506
02:03:34,740 --> 02:03:38,840
Here's the hard copy version of it here for the viewing public who might be interested.

1507
02:03:39,900 --> 02:03:45,100
We have a copy here at the Business Office, and of course you have a copy in your packets.

1508
02:03:46,320 --> 02:03:50,940
These represent items submitted by departments, boards, committees, and commissions for

1509
02:03:50,940 --> 02:04:01,240
consideration as part of the FY2027 budget, if it's an item proposed for 27, or as part of our long-range plan.

1510
02:04:02,700 --> 02:04:08,000
Our town charter requires a look ahead of six years for capital projects, but we go

1511
02:04:08,000 --> 02:04:13,340
one step beyond that and look out ten years to get a better sense of our collective capital future.

1512
02:04:13,340 --> 02:04:22,080
The CIP includes items that have a value of $10,000 or more in a lifespan generally of five or more years.

1513
02:04:22,900 --> 02:04:29,140
I want to note that this is a draft, this is what Gale and I have received unedited from the departments,

1514
02:04:29,940 --> 02:04:34,500
and I'm in the process with Gale of meeting with the departments to talk about all of these proposals.

1515
02:04:34,500 --> 02:04:42,520
and as part of the annual budget process, we'll be betting them in changing the order

1516
02:04:42,520 --> 02:04:49,300
as needed as part of the formal budget presentation, which would go to the Council for

1517
02:04:49,300 --> 02:04:53,900
the last four November 1st. And they'll be presented to the Council at the Council meeting

1518
02:04:53,900 --> 02:05:04,060
on November 2nd. Let me just see. Just want to lead you through some of the highlights here.

1519
02:05:04,500 --> 02:05:09,420
The first is, if you look at the first page, you'll see that

1520
02:05:10,420 --> 02:05:15,440
Gail has very ingeniously aligned, the spreadsheet and the far left side.

1521
02:05:15,660 --> 02:05:21,100
You'll see a page number, so I'm looking under the fire department right now on page 19.

1522
02:05:21,940 --> 02:05:29,960
There's an item to replace the F, the 2007 Ford F350 Forestry Truck for $300,000.

1523
02:05:29,960 --> 02:05:37,900
And just as an example, if you were to look at page 19, you'll see the specific sheet

1524
02:05:37,900 --> 02:05:43,680
of the fire department created, which provides a justification for the project, the description

1525
02:05:43,680 --> 02:05:49,220
of the project, the cost of the project, the purchase price of the project, in this case,

1526
02:05:49,280 --> 02:05:55,460
the request is for $300,000. There's next, the financing section, which talks about how

1527
02:05:55,460 --> 02:05:57,840
that specific item would be funded.

1528
02:05:58,100 --> 02:06:01,600
And in this particular case, the proposal from the fire department

1529
02:06:01,600 --> 02:06:06,620
is to bond the item and to share the cost of the bond 5050

1530
02:06:06,620 --> 02:06:07,340
with the UNH.

1531
02:06:07,720 --> 02:06:11,540
So specifically, during we cover $150,000, you

1532
02:06:11,540 --> 02:06:13,300
need to recover $150,000.

1533
02:06:14,080 --> 02:06:18,020
And so on, that's how the program is put together.

1534
02:06:19,280 --> 02:06:24,280
I try to give some thought each year about specific CIP items

1535
02:06:24,280 --> 02:06:28,500
that you as a planning board might be interested in, although we could talk about any of them

1536
02:06:28,500 --> 02:06:29,120
if you want.

1537
02:06:29,780 --> 02:06:36,420
But the first that I think is particularly relevant is on page 30, replacing the 2015 Ferraria

1538
02:06:36,420 --> 02:06:46,900
aerial ladder truck for $2.2 million dollars in year, 2020, and that is a project again

1539
02:06:46,900 --> 02:06:54,880
And if you look on page 30, that would be shared 5050 with UNH based on our municipal services

1540
02:06:54,880 --> 02:06:56,580
agreement we have with UNH.

1541
02:06:57,100 --> 02:07:00,780
So the cost for each would be $100,000.

1542
02:07:02,200 --> 02:07:09,320
I thought maybe Dave Emanuel could just speak briefly to how a fire truck is valuable, a

1543
02:07:09,320 --> 02:07:15,020
ladder truck in particular for Durham, because on one hand it's necessary for UNH to reach

1544
02:07:15,020 --> 02:07:22,800
of top buildings, but in essence it is used more in fires for Durham off campus buildings

1545
02:07:22,800 --> 02:07:24,860
than it is on campus.

1546
02:07:25,300 --> 02:07:27,800
So could you just speak to that information?

1547
02:07:30,940 --> 02:07:41,760
Thank you, Dave, Emmanuel, I serve as your fire chief and our area apparatus. When we look at how frequently

1548
02:07:41,760 --> 02:07:49,960
we use it, it's over the past three years, it goes around 60 times a year, it goes out to different buildings.

1549
02:07:51,920 --> 02:08:00,320
And because of the nature of the university's buildings, we have 10 story buildings or up to 10 story buildings. On the fully alarm, they're fully sprinkled.

1550
02:08:00,320 --> 02:08:05,020
We generally aren't using a lot of truck on those buildings.

1551
02:08:05,260 --> 02:08:10,420
We're usually using one residential structures that burn wood and have chimneys that we need

1552
02:08:10,420 --> 02:08:12,940
to get to the roof for to work on a chimney fire.

1553
02:08:13,760 --> 02:08:18,080
So there's a need for this apparatus for both the town and the university, right?

1554
02:08:18,220 --> 02:08:19,280
Answer your question appropriately.

1555
02:08:19,520 --> 02:08:19,920
It does.

1556
02:08:20,040 --> 02:08:23,760
I think for the planning board perspective, sometimes I've observed the board getting

1557
02:08:23,760 --> 02:08:30,300
questions about a project that is tall and residents will ask, well, do we have

1558
02:08:30,300 --> 02:08:34,140
the equipment to access that, and this ladder truck is

1559
02:08:34,140 --> 02:08:36,620
the top of our tens of or buildings on campus, right?

1560
02:08:36,960 --> 02:08:40,380
Yes, so building less than 10 stories,

1561
02:08:40,460 --> 02:08:43,220
if we can place it appropriately, we should be good.

1562
02:08:43,860 --> 02:08:47,060
And so two, a five-story building height and downtown,

1563
02:08:47,300 --> 02:08:50,880
let's say, it would be able to reach that the top of that building

1564
02:08:50,880 --> 02:08:54,760
or whatever access you would need if it was, say, five-stories.

1565
02:08:55,600 --> 02:08:56,860
So

1566
02:08:59,010 --> 02:09:05,250
again I'm going to I'm going to fly and any time jump in or we can backtrack.

1567
02:09:05,490 --> 02:09:11,790
So next I was going to jump ahead to page 58 which is yes yes.

1568
02:09:11,830 --> 02:09:12,450
All right.

1569
02:09:12,450 --> 02:09:13,530
New fire station.

1570
02:09:13,890 --> 02:09:14,090
Great.

1571
02:09:14,690 --> 02:09:14,810
Okay.

1572
02:09:16,250 --> 02:09:18,550
That's being budgeted now in 29.

1573
02:09:19,830 --> 02:09:23,910
Yes, the proposal from the fire department was to include it in fiscal year

1574
02:09:28,030 --> 02:09:42,870
So in the budget discussion with the fire department, which included UNH representatives, we had a lengthy conversation around this proposal, and the fire department is anxious to move ahead the project.

1575
02:09:42,870 --> 02:09:50,210
At the same time, in terms of our budgetary conversation, on the town side, I recognize

1576
02:09:50,210 --> 02:09:55,530
Durham has some significant fiscal constraints, and we're not really in a position to

1577
02:09:55,530 --> 02:10:00,550
bring on an additional $10 million in debt at this near term period of time.

1578
02:10:00,790 --> 02:10:03,450
Nor as UNH, the UNH people expressed to us.

1579
02:10:03,830 --> 02:10:10,470
So our consensus was that we should push this project out to about 2,031 at the earliest,

1580
02:10:10,470 --> 02:10:15,290
And the location we're targeting now is B-Lod.

1581
02:10:15,950 --> 02:10:18,610
Previously, B-Lod, B-Lod.

1582
02:10:19,250 --> 02:10:22,170
Previously, for the last 10 years,

1583
02:10:22,710 --> 02:10:25,570
we had been targeting waterworks road.

1584
02:10:26,030 --> 02:10:28,550
There was a pad there that was reserved

1585
02:10:28,550 --> 02:10:35,630
for joint fire department, UNH Police Department, EMS structure.

1586
02:10:35,630 --> 02:10:43,030
But we believe Bela is actually a better location, we've always felt that it was a better

1587
02:10:43,030 --> 02:10:46,950
location and it appears to be open for conversation at this time.

1588
02:10:47,090 --> 02:10:50,950
The UNH has outlined that as a potential site in its master plan.

1589
02:10:51,710 --> 02:11:00,510
So for planning purposes, I would likely propose moving this out to 2,031 at the earliest subject

1590
02:11:00,510 --> 02:11:01,830
to further conversation.

1591
02:11:01,830 --> 02:11:06,910
And the next logical question is, is 20 million really the number, and I can say that 20 million

1592
02:11:06,910 --> 02:11:14,130
was the number like 15 years ago for that large facility, we know that our initial

1593
02:11:14,130 --> 02:11:20,890
thoughts of combining UNH police and term fire did not impractice result in many economies

1594
02:11:20,890 --> 02:11:27,650
of scale, because particularly the police operation desires to have everything cordoned off

1595
02:11:27,650 --> 02:11:33,170
from fire, which did not really allow us to jointly use locker rooms, shower rooms,

1596
02:11:34,430 --> 02:11:39,810
conference rooms, things like that. So we're really not seeing a benefit per se of

1597
02:11:40,710 --> 02:11:46,630
a joint facility like that, but we also know the cost of fire departments have gone up quite a lot.

1598
02:11:47,550 --> 02:11:52,510
So $20 million is probably a good, very general planning number, but it is not a specific

1599
02:11:52,510 --> 02:11:59,870
proposal right now. And to the extent we can eliminate big pieces of equipment or consolidate,

1600
02:12:01,450 --> 02:12:07,950
a few obeys we need, which means the less expensive the project becomes. So we're

1601
02:12:07,950 --> 02:12:13,310
reducing our square footage. Right. So one concept we talked a little bit about during the budget

1602
02:12:13,310 --> 02:12:20,130
discussion for this item was whether it might be possible to combine two pieces of equipment

1603
02:12:20,130 --> 02:12:29,010
and to move away from a stand-alone area ladder to what's called a quint, which is a multiple

1604
02:12:29,790 --> 02:12:36,930
used vehicle that has a ladder function as well. But I will note that we've been very disappointed

1605
02:12:36,930 --> 02:12:46,470
in this 2015 vehicle. It has been out of service for about 25% of time. Yeah, about a quarter of the

1606
02:12:46,470 --> 02:12:52,510
since we've had it, and typically we like to keep these pieces of equipment for about 20 years,

1607
02:12:52,990 --> 02:12:56,410
and as you'll note, this is replacing it like in 12 years.

1608
02:12:58,530 --> 02:13:01,070
So, we're having conversations around.

1609
02:13:05,660 --> 02:13:14,330
Good, so page 58, the vehicle replacement at the police department.

1610
02:13:14,810 --> 02:13:20,110
I won't get into this in any depth, but basically we had set a goal

1611
02:13:20,110 --> 02:13:29,790
about five or six years ago to transition our 100% gasoline-powered fleet to a hybrid fleet

1612
02:13:29,790 --> 02:13:35,890
at the police department, and with the most recent vehicle, we've just completed that

1613
02:13:35,890 --> 02:13:37,950
transition, which is positive news.

1614
02:13:38,150 --> 02:13:43,270
So now all of the frontline vehicles that the police are driving are hybrid, and they've

1615
02:13:43,270 --> 02:13:48,910
had great luck in terms of maintenance and fuel economies and fuel savings with that hybrid

1616
02:13:48,910 --> 02:13:57,630
technology. So that's positive news. And we have a program where those police vehicles move from

1617
02:13:57,630 --> 02:14:06,030
frontline marked vehicles to command slash detective vehicles that are unmarked to eventually

1618
02:14:06,030 --> 02:14:11,470
they're downshifted to this lot and are public works and are used for the assessing vehicle or the

1619
02:14:11,470 --> 02:14:16,730
code enforcement vehicle or the vehicle or the public works directed drives around in and we try to get

1620
02:14:16,730 --> 02:14:21,810
most out of those vehicles. And typically, when we're done with them, they work like $250

1621
02:14:21,810 --> 02:14:31,150
and they go to a judge card because we've just used them as long as we can. So this typically

1622
02:14:31,150 --> 02:14:36,810
would be a year where we would replace two vehicles rather than one, but for cost savings

1623
02:14:36,810 --> 02:14:43,050
reasons, and because we've had good performance from the hybrids, the police department

1624
02:14:43,050 --> 02:14:46,510
is comfortable recommending just one vehicle for the

1625
02:14:46,510 --> 02:14:49,850
2,027, which is positive.

1626
02:14:52,250 --> 02:14:56,510
Let me see, moving ahead, page 65 is the

1627
02:14:56,510 --> 02:14:59,970
courthouse old town hall renovation that's targeted for

1628
02:15:00,740 --> 02:15:25,600
2020. And rich rain, if you are there in cyber land, if you could please come up. As you know, we've just completed renovations at the BIC for Chessley Farmhouse at Wagon Hill Farm. That was the first historic building on our list of renovations, repairs, refurbishment that was needed to maintain that building, the courthouse is next.

1629
02:15:25,600 --> 02:15:33,780
And we had the same individual do a very preliminary review of both the BIC for Chessley and the courthouse about 10 years ago.

1630
02:15:34,640 --> 02:15:35,600
Aaron Sturgis.

1631
02:15:35,820 --> 02:15:39,180
And so Rich, could you maybe just touch this on the plans for the courthouse?

1632
02:15:39,900 --> 02:15:40,560
Sure, Todd.

1633
02:15:41,060 --> 02:15:41,560
Thank you.

1634
02:15:42,520 --> 02:15:47,460
So we're not asking for any funding in 2027 for the courthouse.

1635
02:15:47,600 --> 02:15:52,800
We do have some funding in place from previous years as Todd had mentioned.

1636
02:15:52,800 --> 02:16:00,580
Aaron Sturgis did a review and evaluation structurally as well as other components to determine

1637
02:16:00,580 --> 02:16:06,520
what would be needed for the BIC for Chessie House as well as the as well as the old courthouse.

1638
02:16:06,940 --> 02:16:12,500
I would call that kind of a maybe a 25,000 foot view of that assessment.

1639
02:16:13,400 --> 02:16:18,800
We then really got down into the details on the BIC for Chessie House and we're able to

1640
02:16:18,800 --> 02:16:25,260
design the project that we just recently completed. We haven't done that on the

1641
02:16:25,260 --> 02:16:31,260
courthouse over the next year or so. We plan on getting into that and trying to

1642
02:16:31,260 --> 02:16:37,660
get a better understanding of what the cost would be today to maintain and

1643
02:16:37,660 --> 02:16:42,780
rehabilitate that building. Another important question of before we do that is

1644
02:16:42,780 --> 02:16:48,780
what will be the long-term use of that building. We're the process of trying

1645
02:16:48,780 --> 02:16:56,820
to get an understanding of what components would be necessarily be replaced, but long term

1646
02:16:56,820 --> 02:17:02,280
uses is a question. We've done a fair amount of work on that building over the last

1647
02:17:02,280 --> 02:17:09,400
couple years. We replaced the second floor each fact system. We converted the oil-fired boiler

1648
02:17:09,400 --> 02:17:17,440
for the first floor to natural gas. We replaced the flooring in the multi-purpose room with

1649
02:17:17,440 --> 02:17:22,040
historically accurate oak flooring. We did some work on some of the

1650
02:17:22,040 --> 02:17:26,460
the doors and in our operational budget that we'll be presenting.

1651
02:17:27,100 --> 02:17:31,360
We do have some requests for continue to work on some of the other components,

1652
02:17:31,800 --> 02:17:37,120
the ADA door. We did some mortar work previously, so this year, 27,

1653
02:17:37,580 --> 02:17:42,540
we're not requesting any funding. We've pushed out a request to 2000 and 30.

1654
02:17:42,540 --> 02:17:48,400
that might be pushed out even further, as we evaluate the building and determine what the

1655
02:17:48,400 --> 02:17:49,880
long-term use would be.

1656
02:17:50,420 --> 02:17:55,880
And I'll just note, the Sturgis Report had outlined some structural issues at the higher parts

1657
02:17:55,880 --> 02:18:01,220
of the building and we've had an engineer evaluated, he determined the volume of the building

1658
02:18:01,220 --> 02:18:07,320
and safe, but as part of the HVAC work, we've also removed some very heavy HVAC duct work

1659
02:18:07,320 --> 02:18:12,020
that was hanging on the beams and that weight was not intended and was having an impact on

1660
02:18:12,020 --> 02:18:17,760
building, so that contributing problem has been eliminated, which is good news.

1661
02:18:19,340 --> 02:18:25,280
Next is peach 67, the purchase of solar panels at the Packers Falls Gravel Pit.

1662
02:18:26,760 --> 02:18:32,400
This is an example of where we tried to use town owned asset, in this case in the town of

1663
02:18:32,400 --> 02:18:32,680
Lee.

1664
02:18:33,200 --> 02:18:40,160
Our Packers Falls Gravel Pit, where we installed a 650KW solar ray with revision energy that

1665
02:18:40,160 --> 02:18:50,200
and also IGS solar, it's owned by IGS and Durham has a set rate for electricity that

1666
02:18:50,200 --> 02:18:56,080
we purchased from IGS, which is competitive, and we have the opportunity over a 20-year

1667
02:18:56,080 --> 02:19:02,580
period of time to purchase that array at a depreciated cost. The original idea was to

1668
02:19:02,580 --> 02:19:08,660
purchase that array at some point in the future. But what we found is that all of the arrays

1669
02:19:08,660 --> 02:19:15,060
that Durham has on our buildings or at this pit have experienced pretty significant problems

1670
02:19:15,060 --> 02:19:23,480
over time that from my perspective fortunately the owner had to deal with rather than us.

1671
02:19:24,060 --> 02:19:29,680
And so I'm really not particularly enthusiastic about our moving on these and buying this array

1672
02:19:29,680 --> 02:19:33,860
because we're just, you know, public works is so amazing.

1673
02:19:33,860 --> 02:19:41,280
Yeah, none of us are really versed in solar power management and maintenance, and we don't, we're not staff for it either.

1674
02:19:42,240 --> 02:19:54,090
So, at least for now, this is just a placeholder in case at some point in the future, it makes sense to move on it and purchase the property, the panels that are then depreciated rate,

1675
02:19:55,040 --> 02:19:59,620
but at least at this time, my working thinking is that we would not.

1676
02:20:00,200 --> 02:20:02,920
We just simply roll along every year.

1677
02:20:02,920 --> 02:20:10,320
Can I just just on that because that's very interesting so those are 2016 so I guess that's ten-year-old technology

1678
02:20:10,320 --> 02:20:16,660
It's probably changed quite a bit and I guess when they fix that do they replace it with the sake the sort of the similar

1679
02:20:17,560 --> 02:20:20,760
category of panel that was there before did they when they swapped that out?

1680
02:20:20,820 --> 02:20:26,760
Do they kind of do an upgrade on that and we get kind of get the benefit of that without having to sort of pay for all that

1681
02:20:27,660 --> 02:20:30,060
Or do we know I honestly don't know because

1682
02:20:30,060 --> 02:20:41,960
We let energy goes into do the service for IGS solar and public work floods them in, but they're not building us.

1683
02:20:42,860 --> 02:20:48,980
So our concern is producing power that then we're purchasing from them.

1684
02:20:49,600 --> 02:20:53,630
I don't have an answer for you.

1685
02:20:53,670 --> 02:20:56,670
I would say on that if I can,

1686
02:20:56,670 --> 02:21:00,630
is, most of times, it's not the panel that fails.

1687
02:21:00,970 --> 02:21:02,690
It's a inverter that fails.

1688
02:21:03,190 --> 02:21:05,370
And those are very expensive through a place

1689
02:21:05,370 --> 02:21:08,090
and they've replaced one of those inverters

1690
02:21:08,090 --> 02:21:12,930
at the legal gravel pit over the last five, six years

1691
02:21:12,930 --> 02:21:13,710
that I've been here.

1692
02:21:14,610 --> 02:21:18,130
Yeah, and for example, at a certain point in time,

1693
02:21:18,230 --> 02:21:21,130
revision owned the panels on the library.

1694
02:21:21,670 --> 02:21:24,370
We subsequently did buy those out.

1695
02:21:24,470 --> 02:21:25,510
So during those those now.

1696
02:21:25,510 --> 02:21:34,630
But when revision did own the panels, that was the year we had like squirrel topia, and there was this explosion of squirrels.

1697
02:21:34,790 --> 02:21:37,210
You may remember like there were dead squirrels on the road everywhere.

1698
02:21:37,530 --> 02:21:43,150
And the squirrels got into the wiring in the library, and just really caused significant problems.

1699
02:21:43,750 --> 02:21:48,850
And that was all fully covered by revision at their cost, and they put up squirrel protection.

1700
02:21:50,790 --> 02:21:52,670
So anyway, just an example.

1701
02:21:53,190 --> 02:21:59,290
All right, moving ahead to page 77, the road program, and rich, would you mind just giving

1702
02:21:59,290 --> 02:22:00,950
it over view of the road program, please?

1703
02:22:01,110 --> 02:22:07,430
Because it affects everybody and as you're looking at subdivisions and project zoning, it's

1704
02:22:07,430 --> 02:22:10,630
important for you to have a sense of how we deal with roads, I think.

1705
02:22:11,050 --> 02:22:11,230
Right.

1706
02:22:12,070 --> 02:22:15,750
So we utilize, if you don't mind, can I just share a quick slide?

1707
02:22:16,150 --> 02:22:18,650
It'll be easier to talk to this if that's okay.

1708
02:22:18,730 --> 02:22:19,250
No problem.

1709
02:22:19,890 --> 02:22:20,330
Okay.

1710
02:22:20,890 --> 02:22:23,010
Let me see if I can do this real quick.

1711
02:22:35,580 --> 02:22:38,700
Let me know when you see that.

1712
02:22:38,700 --> 02:22:43,480
You're on. Okay, great. Can you zoom in on it a little more?

1713
02:22:44,560 --> 02:22:47,700
Yeah, I can do that. Give me one sec.

1714
02:22:50,960 --> 02:22:52,320
How's that?

1715
02:22:52,600 --> 02:22:54,920
Yeah, or maybe on the presentation mode?

1716
02:22:55,900 --> 02:22:57,200
Okay, sorry about that.

1717
02:22:57,240 --> 02:22:58,200
Go down, little bit.

1718
02:23:03,250 --> 02:23:04,050
There we go.

1719
02:23:04,230 --> 02:23:04,770
Yeah, that's better.

1720
02:23:04,890 --> 02:23:05,830
That easier to see.

1721
02:23:05,930 --> 02:23:06,150
Yeah.

1722
02:23:06,890 --> 02:23:08,010
Okay, all right, great.

1723
02:23:08,010 --> 02:23:17,430
So, I mentioned before, we utilized a software program call on the city logics, pavement management system,

1724
02:23:17,790 --> 02:23:25,710
and that allows us to really manage our full 59-60 miles of roadway network in a very methodical way,

1725
02:23:26,470 --> 02:23:32,950
along with kind of coordination with other utility replacement, water mains, sewer lines, gas lines, if necessary,

1726
02:23:32,950 --> 02:23:40,890
and that gives us the, oh, I just went, oh, there we go, that allows us to coordinate

1727
02:23:40,890 --> 02:23:46,010
all that, what we try to do, we just recently did a full assessment and evaluation

1728
02:23:46,010 --> 02:23:52,970
of our road network, and our goal is to try to keep that at an ADPCI, that ADPCI

1729
02:23:52,970 --> 02:23:57,970
gives us the ability to manage that and hit some of these deteriorating roads before

1730
02:23:57,970 --> 02:24:03,150
they come very expensive to maintain and rehabilitate.

1731
02:24:03,830 --> 02:24:07,610
So I'm happy to say that our PCI is hovering right about 80.

1732
02:24:07,830 --> 02:24:08,810
It's just under 80.

1733
02:24:08,910 --> 02:24:14,770
The evaluation is for this last time, late summer early fall is still under way.

1734
02:24:14,970 --> 02:24:17,370
They're under doing the post-processing work on that.

1735
02:24:17,470 --> 02:24:19,870
We hope to get that back over the next couple of weeks.

1736
02:24:20,250 --> 02:24:24,030
But we have been holding our own right around that 80 PCI.

1737
02:24:24,030 --> 02:24:31,790
This, what we've observed lately is that some of these roads that were treated with

1738
02:24:31,790 --> 02:24:38,810
a drag shim, which is a very thin overlay of pavement about even less than a half an inch

1739
02:24:38,810 --> 02:24:45,790
at times, based on the the running of the roadway. We're seeing some accelerated deterioration

1740
02:24:45,790 --> 02:24:50,250
of those roads and some of those roads are some of the major collectors that we have in town,

1741
02:24:50,250 --> 02:24:55,510
Durant Point Road, Mill Road, Bennett Road, and Packers Falls Road.

1742
02:24:56,090 --> 02:25:02,550
So we developed this five year action plan on our roadways to address that, but also address some

1743
02:25:02,550 --> 02:25:08,870
of these residential roads. So you'll see in the book a very detailed five-year plan for the

1744
02:25:08,870 --> 02:25:16,810
for the road program. This upcoming year we hope to be able to, we've requested about

1745
02:25:16,810 --> 02:25:24,630
$734,000, which is a little more than we typically request, but really that's the figure somewhere

1746
02:25:24,630 --> 02:25:33,030
between 600 and $750,000 that we'll need to invest in the roads to maintain that VVPCI.

1747
02:25:33,530 --> 02:25:41,190
The program for this year will consist of during-point road, both east and west, and you can see that.

1748
02:25:41,190 --> 02:25:46,890
this figure right here where my cursor is, those two roads, and it will be an inch and a

1749
02:25:46,890 --> 02:25:53,430
quarter so basically a shin and overlay on that roadway. And which, could I just just clarify

1750
02:25:53,430 --> 02:25:59,030
because this is a question I had, when Rich says East and West, he means the whole road. There's

1751
02:25:59,030 --> 02:26:03,930
not an additional center section that's not being done, and it's the whole road. That's right.

1752
02:26:05,050 --> 02:26:10,110
And then it will also include Bay Road. That's in a little bit better condition than

1753
02:26:10,110 --> 02:26:16,610
during point road, but it also is showing some pretty significant signs of deterioration.

1754
02:26:17,130 --> 02:26:21,430
Ideally, we would like to go in there, you know, it's the base of the roadway is really

1755
02:26:21,430 --> 02:26:27,150
what fails, you know, first and then the rest of the road could show signs of distresses.

1756
02:26:27,150 --> 02:26:34,370
We would love to go in there and box out that entire roadway, 24 inches, put good gravels

1757
02:26:34,370 --> 02:26:37,370
in there and build it from the bottom up.

1758
02:26:37,370 --> 02:26:41,110
but it just cost prohibitive to do something like that.

1759
02:26:41,310 --> 02:26:44,330
So this treatment will give us that, you know,

1760
02:26:44,510 --> 02:26:47,430
five to seven, nine years worth of,

1761
02:26:47,430 --> 02:26:51,010
worth of, you know, good driveability of the roadway

1762
02:26:51,010 --> 02:26:53,630
while we continue to look for grant money

1763
02:26:53,630 --> 02:26:56,670
to do this in another fashion,

1764
02:26:57,230 --> 02:26:59,470
possibly a reclaim of the roadway

1765
02:26:59,470 --> 02:27:01,570
or maybe a cold in place for cycling.

1766
02:27:02,410 --> 02:27:04,370
So I'll stop there for a second

1767
02:27:04,370 --> 02:27:06,310
to see if there's any questions on that.

1768
02:27:09,280 --> 02:27:23,100
Could you just touch on the efforts we've made to bring in federal grant money which not been successful and what that grant money would have allowed that we're not planning to do at this point in time?

1769
02:27:23,880 --> 02:27:25,140
Yeah, that's a great comment.

1770
02:27:25,820 --> 02:27:33,460
So what we've tried to do, we've looked at this in a way that would allow us to really build this road in a complete streets fashion,

1771
02:27:33,460 --> 02:27:39,000
very similar to Mad Bear Road, but a different application, since it is a different type of roadway.

1772
02:27:39,620 --> 02:27:46,020
We've applied for a couple large grants. The most recent one was the safe streets and roads

1773
02:27:46,020 --> 02:27:55,080
for all. And that is a highly competitive grant round. It's a federal grant. And we put together

1774
02:27:55,080 --> 02:28:00,560
what we thought was a very solid package. It would have allowed us to do safety improvements on the

1775
02:28:00,560 --> 02:28:07,820
way cycling, improvements for cyclists on that roadway, maybe some geometric changes in the road.

1776
02:28:08,700 --> 02:28:13,160
And unfortunately, we were unsuccessful to getting any grants for that.

1777
02:28:13,440 --> 02:28:18,180
There's some other grants that we applied for smaller, but also we're not successful.

1778
02:28:18,460 --> 02:28:24,120
So we're going to continue to do that over the next half dozen years and try to get full funding for

1779
02:28:24,120 --> 02:28:28,700
some of these improvements that I think we would all like to make on that roadway.

1780
02:28:28,700 --> 02:28:42,940
But at this point, we're trying to balance the road going into a complete failure mode as well as those other roads that I mentioned and being able to maintain it at the level that we think it's necessary.

1781
02:28:45,040 --> 02:28:51,820
Which do anticipate any changes to the scenic road other than resurfacing?

1782
02:28:51,820 --> 02:28:55,480
that Peter show you where else concerned about?

1783
02:28:56,140 --> 02:28:59,820
No, you know, we'll be looking at the main concentration when we're doing a

1784
02:28:59,820 --> 02:29:03,720
shipment overlay, go be some shoulder gravel work that we do, maybe some

1785
02:29:04,460 --> 02:29:09,840
some other areas that we might be looking at some failing culverts on the roadway.

1786
02:29:10,160 --> 02:29:14,760
There's some what we call CMP or coordinated middle culverts that may have some

1787
02:29:15,680 --> 02:29:20,700
significant kind of deterioration in their inverts, so we wouldn't want to

1788
02:29:20,700 --> 02:29:25,560
roadway without addressing some of those so we have a sense of which ones are failing so we

1789
02:29:25,560 --> 02:29:31,080
may do that with our own internal forces to replace those but there won't be any significant

1790
02:29:31,080 --> 02:29:40,580
changes you know as far as the scenic road goes so I'll stop sharing and the rich I was hopeful

1791
02:29:40,580 --> 02:29:50,680
in terms of there are a lot of projects for public works public works is the main part of the

1792
02:29:50,680 --> 02:29:56,580
You might talk about, you could touch upon the water system improvements in wastewater

1793
02:29:56,580 --> 02:29:59,960
facilities plan, but I didn't know if there are other projects.

1794
02:30:00,000 --> 02:30:03,380
I said, you think it would be helpful for the planning board to hear about.

1795
02:30:12,690 --> 02:30:13,550
Did you hear that rich?

1796
02:30:14,190 --> 02:30:19,770
Yeah, I did. I was just waiting. Was there anything else that we wanted to talk about before I get into that?

1797
02:30:20,050 --> 02:30:20,850
No, no.

1798
02:30:21,630 --> 02:30:21,870
Okay.

1799
02:30:22,730 --> 02:30:32,710
All right, so we have a water main replacement program that we started. It was about four or five years ago that addresses the

1800
02:30:32,710 --> 02:30:39,010
99 miles of water main that we have. When we look at the miles or of water

1801
02:30:39,010 --> 02:30:46,470
main and the condition, the type of material and the age, you know, we look at

1802
02:30:46,470 --> 02:30:50,430
break history and we want to avoid breaks whenever possible, especially on

1803
02:30:50,430 --> 02:30:57,830
these newly-caved roadways. So what we try to do is combine our roadway work with

1804
02:30:57,830 --> 02:31:02,690
utility work and in this case that utility work is water main. We also look

1805
02:31:02,690 --> 02:31:08,750
at sewer, you know, mains at the same time and work with the gas companies, but we accumulate

1806
02:31:08,750 --> 02:31:14,870
money over a period of time, typically this $75,000, we should be, you know, a lot of

1807
02:31:14,870 --> 02:31:20,510
Steve, when we look at all those components of a water main and what a replacement plan should

1808
02:31:20,510 --> 02:31:27,390
be based on age of a water main, we should be putting much more in than $75,000, hundreds of

1809
02:31:27,390 --> 02:31:32,610
thousands of dollars into that. But it's unrealistic to do that. So what we do is accumulate

1810
02:31:32,610 --> 02:31:39,450
money over a period of time and we target a specific roadway. When we have enough of that

1811
02:31:39,450 --> 02:31:45,310
funding, we then go ahead and do the water main typically the year before, do a temporary

1812
02:31:45,310 --> 02:31:51,990
patch, and then come back the next year with the road program and reclaimed and paid that roadway

1813
02:31:51,990 --> 02:32:00,110
typically. So in this case on the town of water system proven for $75,000, that will be used with

1814
02:32:00,110 --> 02:32:08,950
So the FY27 funding will contribute toward a $200,000 project that we anticipate will be replacing

1815
02:32:08,950 --> 02:32:13,110
the cast iron water mean on the first section of Davis Avenue.

1816
02:32:13,730 --> 02:32:18,290
If you look down where the edgewood and Davis intersection is and you glance toward your

1817
02:32:18,290 --> 02:32:23,810
right as you're going to or campus, you'll see at that early section there's three pavement

1818
02:32:23,810 --> 02:32:31,350
And those three pavement patches are there because we had three water mean breaks that needed to be repaired.

1819
02:32:32,350 --> 02:32:44,670
So that will be our concentration in 2000 and 30 road program will be Davis Avenue and we'll be doing the water main just before that work in conjunction with that project.

1820
02:32:45,810 --> 02:32:48,590
Any questions on watering?

1821
02:32:50,760 --> 02:32:52,860
And that just has one question.

1822
02:32:53,520 --> 02:32:53,800
I think.

1823
02:32:55,100 --> 02:33:01,920
You sort of touched on it, which is the public works department as a large portion of the budget.

1824
02:33:02,700 --> 02:33:06,660
And when we think about planning, it would seem that we would want to try to consolidate

1825
02:33:08,060 --> 02:33:14,440
or use these resources to the maximum amount that we could, which I guess when I think about that,

1826
02:33:14,440 --> 02:33:19,700
I would say that you would want to almost start to try as best as you can

1827
02:33:19,700 --> 02:33:22,540
to consolidate density, where you have these services,

1828
02:33:23,360 --> 02:33:26,200
where you get the biggest bank for your buck when you implement

1829
02:33:26,840 --> 02:33:30,400
an updated road or updated fix. In other words,

1830
02:33:30,700 --> 02:33:33,240
it seems obvious that when you update a rural road,

1831
02:33:33,640 --> 02:33:36,360
a few people benefit from that, but if you have greater density

1832
02:33:36,360 --> 02:33:38,880
and you update a road that's in a dense area,

1833
02:33:39,080 --> 02:33:40,540
you get a bigger bank for the buck.

1834
02:33:40,960 --> 02:33:43,200
So I guess from a planning perspective, it would seem

1835
02:33:43,200 --> 02:33:46,320
that we would want to try, I think, to consolidate

1836
02:33:46,320 --> 02:33:59,500
And increased density where we have these services and where you can get a two-for-one or three-for-one, you know, benefit versus a slider smaller benefit down on the rural area.

1837
02:34:00,320 --> 02:34:10,180
I don't know if there any thoughts about that, but in terms of the capital outlay for these things, it would seem that the denser we go in certain areas, the bigger bang we get for the buck.

1838
02:34:11,220 --> 02:34:13,860
That maybe is both a question in a statement, I think.

1839
02:34:14,880 --> 02:34:20,600
I would agree, I mean, if you look, a good example would be comparing the state of New Hampshire

1840
02:34:20,600 --> 02:34:27,200
to the state of Maine, Maine is significantly larger state in terms of geographic area,

1841
02:34:27,480 --> 02:34:33,700
and that means they have huge networks of roadways to very small populated areas that

1842
02:34:33,700 --> 02:34:35,840
they have to maintain that significant cost.

1843
02:34:36,260 --> 02:34:42,560
Where New Hampshire is a smaller geographic area, and we can put better economies of scale in terms

1844
02:34:42,560 --> 02:34:48,460
of those investments. But what I can say is where we don't have any money targeted toward building

1845
02:34:48,460 --> 02:34:53,980
new roads in Durham, we're simply maintaining what we have, and I don't know which is

1846
02:34:53,980 --> 02:35:02,400
there, if a road is more rural, are you likely to see less wear and tear on it and therefore

1847
02:35:03,220 --> 02:35:11,400
a need to get in and repair it a few or times over time than a more frequently traveled

1848
02:35:11,400 --> 02:35:19,460
rotor has that work? Yeah definitely I think you know certainly you know average daily traffic on roadways

1849
02:35:19,460 --> 02:35:26,600
and the type of traffic plays a big part in the degradation of that roadway and I touched on

1850
02:35:26,600 --> 02:35:32,940
the city logics you know software platform that we use and developing a PCI or a pavement condition

1851
02:35:32,940 --> 02:35:41,100
index but from there we also have another another kind of data point that comes out of that and

1852
02:35:41,100 --> 02:35:43,300
it's called a benefit value index.

1853
02:35:43,420 --> 02:35:45,460
And it's exactly what you just said, hey,

1854
02:35:45,460 --> 02:35:48,420
and we're, we look at average daily traffic,

1855
02:35:48,820 --> 02:35:51,500
cost of repair, longevity of the repair,

1856
02:35:51,720 --> 02:35:54,860
all these different components go into this algorithm

1857
02:35:55,380 --> 02:35:58,740
that then allows us to prioritize some of these,

1858
02:35:58,740 --> 02:36:00,160
some of these on roadways.

1859
02:36:00,340 --> 02:36:04,260
And it'll come out with a plan that is recommended.

1860
02:36:04,580 --> 02:36:07,260
And we then look at that and we use other engineering

1861
02:36:07,260 --> 02:36:10,780
judgment and timing to say, OK, maybe it came out

1862
02:36:10,780 --> 02:36:16,380
with this roadway, but we also have a water management or a sewer replacement, or we know

1863
02:36:16,380 --> 02:36:22,040
the gas company wants to come in there, so we would defer that, so there is a lot of

1864
02:36:22,040 --> 02:36:27,300
the additional analysis that goes into it, it's not just PCI, it's the BVI benefit

1865
02:36:27,300 --> 02:36:30,920
value index that helps drive some of the decisions that we make.

1866
02:36:31,660 --> 02:36:37,060
I think sidewalks is more where we might see that stretch, and like Riverwood is a good

1867
02:36:37,060 --> 02:36:42,800
example where our sidewalk previously did not go out as far as riverwinds. It was on the

1868
02:36:42,800 --> 02:36:50,120
Durham side of the route for overpass. And once riverwinds was constructed, the residents

1869
02:36:50,120 --> 02:36:54,580
there said, well, we want a sidewalk. So, Durham's response is, well, riverwinds if you want

1870
02:36:54,580 --> 02:36:59,660
the sidewalk, you build the sidewalk. So, they paid to build the sidewalk, but we accepted

1871
02:36:59,660 --> 02:37:04,400
the sidewalk. And now, over time, we're going to have to spend text to all this to maintain

1872
02:37:04,400 --> 02:37:12,680
that sidebar. So it does make sense to consolidate development in areas where there are already

1873
02:37:12,680 --> 02:37:17,740
sidewalks. So we don't have to extend infrastructure and maintain it and have additional

1874
02:37:17,740 --> 02:37:23,820
staff to take care of it, etc. Water and sewer lines might be the same scenario. You know,

1875
02:37:24,240 --> 02:37:28,400
it's best to keep it compact rather than long lines going out to very real areas.

1876
02:37:30,600 --> 02:37:38,480
So while we have rich here, I don't know if you're watching the earlier segment of the planning board meeting or not before this.

1877
02:37:38,880 --> 02:37:40,800
Okay. So we're talking about tech drive.

1878
02:37:41,600 --> 02:37:41,620
Yes.

1879
02:37:42,120 --> 02:37:49,900
Do you have a schedule that indicates when tech drive might be on the list of things to read?

1880
02:37:49,980 --> 02:37:51,560
We do. We do.

1881
02:37:51,560 --> 02:38:02,820
It's not in the five-year plan, but we have mentioned to, you know, two Sean and the group at RJ Kelley that

1882
02:38:02,820 --> 02:38:13,580
predominantly the wear and impact of the roadway currently is with the 90 tractor trailers that that road sees each day.

1883
02:38:13,580 --> 02:38:34,760
So, so we are going to have further discussions with them about potential exactions on that roadway to allow for the condition to be improved after their major construction takes place because the truck traffic on that roadway is only going to increase over time.

1884
02:38:34,760 --> 02:38:41,560
So we want to make sure that we have that discussion early on and the same thing goes with the sidewalk that, you know

1885
02:38:41,560 --> 02:38:49,140
You guys keyed in on earlier, you know, we we have those same concerns and that's why we are including that in the the scope

1886
02:38:49,140 --> 02:38:52,600
You know that we'll be working with a pex on

1887
02:38:53,060 --> 02:38:57,720
to look at the traffic impact study that was done and a third-party review

1888
02:38:57,720 --> 02:39:03,060
So I think those are all things we we don't have tech drive in the five-year action plan

1889
02:39:03,060 --> 02:39:18,260
So you won't see that, you know, come through this existing capital plan, but you know, it will need to be, um, it will need to be addressed and we hope that we can work with our Jay Kelly to come up with a, um, reasonable, you know, kind of approach on that.

1890
02:39:18,580 --> 02:39:30,360
Okay. Thank you. One more question also because the other thing is that as you know, we're starting to look at the issue of zoning in the around the central business district area in the built up areas.

1891
02:39:30,360 --> 02:39:44,920
And a question that caught up in an earlier planning board meeting, at least two or three maybe four meetings ago, about what studies exist and part of my ignorance on water and wastewater capacities in those areas.

1892
02:39:45,560 --> 02:39:57,780
So as we're starting to think about what might happen to those in terms of densities and stuff, are we facing limitations or are we all good to go and sort of what what what's the knowledge base that exists that can be shared with the planning board.

1893
02:39:57,780 --> 02:40:25,840
Yeah, it's a great question, Michael, and I think the other thing that we need to think about is not only capacity to collect and treat wastewater or distribute and distribute water, but it's condition of those infrastructure that's there now and can it can support additional capacity, either a collection or distribution and the same thing goes with storm water.

1894
02:40:25,840 --> 02:40:34,260
week we certainly in the downtown area, we do have some constraints on storm water in our closed

1895
02:40:34,260 --> 02:40:41,280
training system and we've addressed a bunch of that with the Madbury Road Project but on the

1896
02:40:41,280 --> 02:40:46,340
other side basically the Teddy Brook side where the Teddy Brook parking lot is and the

1897
02:40:46,340 --> 02:40:53,440
collection system on that side that flows toward Teddy Brook that still has some challenges as far

1898
02:40:53,440 --> 02:41:00,580
is available capacity. In fact, it doesn't have available capacity at this point. It search

1899
02:41:00,580 --> 02:41:06,880
arches, you know, in ten-year storms and floods. You know, it just doesn't have the capacity,

1900
02:41:06,880 --> 02:41:14,440
the pipe capacity for additional flow. So it's not only just, you know, overall the capacity,

1901
02:41:14,860 --> 02:41:23,120
you know, to distribute or collect, but it's also conditioned. We do have, you know, some

1902
02:41:23,120 --> 02:41:30,880
pretty good sense. We had a grant that we received from the state $100,000 to do a West

1903
02:41:30,880 --> 02:41:39,960
and sewer study to determine what type of capacity constraints do we have from the edge

1904
02:41:39,960 --> 02:41:47,260
and this technology drive development and we know that there are some choke points leading

1905
02:41:47,260 --> 02:41:54,180
to the interceptors. So that's the college book interceptor. There's a very small pipe that

1906
02:41:54,180 --> 02:42:01,880
actually under the fire department underneath the railroad and under the building itself. So that's

1907
02:42:01,880 --> 02:42:07,600
something that we have to take into account as we look at, you know, taking on more flow and what the

1908
02:42:08,300 --> 02:42:14,020
you would type of upgrades might be necessary from, you know, the developer over those applicants are.

1909
02:42:14,020 --> 02:42:20,990
So all those things I come into play as we do I get a review of a project that might come in front of the planning for

1910
02:42:22,560 --> 02:42:30,420
Okay, but is there a study that looks at the supply of water and sewage capacity for the areas around downtown?

1911
02:42:30,640 --> 02:42:40,480
Yeah, we have a we have a hydraulic model that we have that underwood engineers is basically has that and we work with them.

1912
02:42:40,480 --> 02:42:45,440
So for example, the RJ Kelly you've heard him ask about the, oh, I'm sorry, I just wanted

1913
02:42:45,440 --> 02:42:46,160
to know if something exists.

1914
02:42:46,440 --> 02:42:46,540
Okay.

1915
02:42:46,760 --> 02:42:48,200
I just don't know how to draw my eye.

1916
02:42:48,300 --> 02:42:49,540
Thank you.

1917
02:42:51,760 --> 02:42:58,700
Rich, so just getting into the wastewater facilities plan, we're asking for $425,000

1918
02:42:59,310 --> 02:43:05,380
to continue to implement some of the components of the wastewater facilities plan.

1919
02:43:05,380 --> 02:43:13,560
This is a plan that this is a request that is split two thirds one-third by UNH and the

1920
02:43:13,560 --> 02:43:13,880
town.

1921
02:43:14,080 --> 02:43:17,880
So we pay for one-third of that UNH pays for two thirds of that.

1922
02:43:18,160 --> 02:43:21,300
All the capital projects are allocated that way.

1923
02:43:21,880 --> 02:43:27,620
You can imagine the wastewater treatment plan and the whole collection system is very,

1924
02:43:27,620 --> 02:43:28,420
very complex.

1925
02:43:28,420 --> 02:43:33,720
it has many, many large pumps, blowers, motors, tankage,

1926
02:43:33,720 --> 02:43:38,320
chemical, equipment, skita, electronics, PLCs,

1927
02:43:38,620 --> 02:43:42,780
you name it and all of these things have a certain useful life.

1928
02:43:43,220 --> 02:43:47,200
We have a master of facilities master plan that allows us,

1929
02:43:47,200 --> 02:43:50,360
in fact, we're in the process of updating that right now.

1930
02:43:51,280 --> 02:43:56,360
That is something that allows us to predict what needs to be replaced,

1931
02:43:56,360 --> 02:44:02,400
what's approaching the end of its useful life, what we need to upgrade from a regulatory standpoint

1932
02:44:02,400 --> 02:44:09,800
to meet our permit conditions and one of the things that is coming down the pike and you'll

1933
02:44:09,800 --> 02:44:16,660
see that I would encourage you to read there is two documents that included this year in the capital

1934
02:44:16,660 --> 02:44:26,340
plan on both the roads and the approach that we're taking in the recommendations, but also on the

1935
02:44:26,340 --> 02:44:32,320
of the upcoming challenges that we have on treatment within a new permit that was issued for

1936
02:44:32,320 --> 02:44:39,460
our wastewater treatment plan having to do with copper and treating copper and managing that

1937
02:44:39,460 --> 02:44:47,260
pollutant. So a lot of this funding that we get the one-third of the 425,000 and the

1938
02:44:47,260 --> 02:44:53,660
two-thirds of the UNH portion goes into that regulatory compliance and upkeep in of the wastewater

1939
02:44:53,660 --> 02:44:57,960
question system and punstations and things like that.

1940
02:44:58,260 --> 02:44:59,460
Just to know that.

1941
02:45:00,000 --> 02:45:05,480
Unlike the fire department agreement with UNH, where we split the cost for operation and capital

1942
02:45:06,260 --> 02:45:14,000
5050, with the water and wastewater department's capital is 2,3rds UNH, 1,3rd Durham. That's the

1943
02:45:14,000 --> 02:45:14,480
cost here.

1944
02:45:18,360 --> 02:45:23,940
So the last item I just wanted to briefly touch on was the Rink renovation and recreation

1945
02:45:23,940 --> 02:45:30,760
Center project, which is on page 147, you'll see that's targeted for construction in

1946
02:45:30,760 --> 02:45:39,640
2021. That would be, as envisioned, all fundraising, whether that's viable or not.

1947
02:45:39,640 --> 02:45:45,660
I don't know at this point in time, but I just wanted to flag that for you so you could

1948
02:45:45,660 --> 02:45:56,100
there's a funding in 27 which comes from the Rink Fund 28 requested and then 29 for the major project.

1949
02:45:56,680 --> 02:46:15,640
And I'll note that following Bill's presentation to the planning board last month, we received a call from the

1950
02:46:15,640 --> 02:46:22,640
20 to 30 thousand dollars to build a trail system at Wagonow Farm. And as part of that

1951
02:46:22,640 --> 02:46:29,300
at the Rink at a Jackson, I'm sorry, at the Rink at Jackson's Laney. And as part of that

1952
02:46:29,300 --> 02:46:38,200
agreement, we committed to relieve everything there, open air and external. So that would,

1953
02:46:38,200 --> 02:46:44,280
It seems preclude us from covering and not covering,

1954
02:46:44,420 --> 02:46:46,320
but making the rink and indoor facility.

1955
02:46:47,420 --> 02:46:49,540
So we're following up with the Division of Parks

1956
02:46:49,540 --> 02:46:52,580
and Recreation just to learn more.

1957
02:46:53,540 --> 02:46:54,640
So stay tuned.

1958
02:46:56,220 --> 02:46:56,720
Or ever?

1959
02:46:57,540 --> 02:46:59,200
Well, that's what they're asserting.

1960
02:47:00,320 --> 02:47:03,860
So we'll see what that, in fact, means in practice.

1961
02:47:04,820 --> 02:47:07,760
But beyond that, we are happy to answer

1962
02:47:07,760 --> 02:47:10,180
And you know, all the questions that you may have.

1963
02:47:12,880 --> 02:47:13,840
Yes, yes.

1964
02:47:14,380 --> 02:47:15,060
Just one.

1965
02:47:15,280 --> 02:47:17,820
I noticed that a lot of the bonding is through

1966
02:47:17,820 --> 02:47:20,260
the New Hampshire and the Municipal Bond.

1967
02:47:20,800 --> 02:47:22,340
I guess that's a bank.

1968
02:47:22,900 --> 02:47:27,900
And it was tagged at 2.9% which seems low to me right now.

1969
02:47:27,920 --> 02:47:29,260
And it seems like I would,

1970
02:47:29,320 --> 02:47:31,400
if you're getting that, that seems like a good right.

1971
02:47:31,680 --> 02:47:33,500
This was wondering what the,

1972
02:47:33,500 --> 02:47:36,300
any ideas of what the rate would be.

1973
02:47:36,360 --> 02:47:37,440
It feels like it would be more

1974
02:47:37,440 --> 02:47:39,540
like mint threes, but I'm not sure.

1975
02:47:39,940 --> 02:47:43,420
And then if that rate changes how much does it impact the ability

1976
02:47:43,420 --> 02:47:44,700
to do these projects?

1977
02:47:45,380 --> 02:47:45,480
Yeah.

1978
02:47:45,760 --> 02:47:50,640
So we will fluctuate between going out and issuing a bond

1979
02:47:50,640 --> 02:47:53,560
ourselves or participating with the Napier Municipal

1980
02:47:53,560 --> 02:47:54,100
Bond Bank.

1981
02:47:54,940 --> 02:47:57,580
The benefit of working with a Bond Bank is it's easier

1982
02:47:57,580 --> 02:47:59,340
on the business office, there are fewer steps

1983
02:47:59,340 --> 02:48:01,220
because they handle most of it.

1984
02:48:01,220 --> 02:48:04,360
And they aggregate the bonding needs of towns and cities

1985
02:48:04,360 --> 02:48:07,500
in school districts and counties to get a better rate.

1986
02:48:08,340 --> 02:48:11,100
And so the rates that you see cited

1987
02:48:11,100 --> 02:48:14,080
are the actual rates from the last issuance,

1988
02:48:14,440 --> 02:48:16,680
and that's the best information they have for us.

1989
02:48:16,940 --> 02:48:19,400
Now, the Federal Reserve just did increase rates

1990
02:48:19,400 --> 02:48:22,960
by the quarter of percent, so that would flow down

1991
02:48:22,960 --> 02:48:26,900
to the bond bank when they issue their next set of debt.

1992
02:48:27,140 --> 02:48:29,540
But this is the best information we have.

1993
02:48:30,080 --> 02:48:31,180
So it's an estimate.

1994
02:48:36,880 --> 02:48:47,960
Just want to recognize and thank Gail Diplomsky. This is her final CIP presentation for a few years of service and great work on behalf of the town.

1995
02:48:49,880 --> 02:48:50,420
Thank you.

1996
02:48:50,460 --> 02:48:51,560
All right.

1997
02:48:51,560 --> 02:48:52,380
Thank you.

1998
02:48:52,580 --> 02:48:59,540
All right. So more to come in the next month and a half will be really vetting all of this much more.

1999
02:49:00,500 --> 02:49:07,500
And finalizing a document which would go to the council for review there and eventually approval and some for.

2000
02:49:10,880 --> 02:49:21,280
Thanks for all that you all do for everything you all do. It's amazing all the details behind the scenes that are not always seen

2001
02:49:21,280 --> 02:49:30,960
But that are taken care of so it's I think you do a terrific job and the details outstanding and so thank you

2002
02:49:30,960 --> 02:49:35,160
The Durham steam is small, but maybe great job

2003
02:49:43,990 --> 02:49:49,950
I want minutes on the agenda, where are we going to move back?

2004
02:49:49,950 --> 02:49:50,730
But I couldn't find it.

2005
02:49:50,730 --> 02:49:51,610
That was a question.

2006
02:49:51,950 --> 02:49:52,790
Go back and pack it.

2007
02:49:52,950 --> 02:49:54,930
Okay, we'll, we'll.

2008
02:49:55,050 --> 02:49:56,050
We'll send them.

2009
02:49:56,050 --> 02:49:57,090
They're not on any work.

2010
02:49:57,350 --> 02:49:57,950
Oh, okay.

2011
02:49:58,130 --> 02:49:59,890
We'll have them for the next meeting then.

2012
02:50:00,210 --> 02:50:00,550
All right.

2013
02:50:02,470 --> 02:50:04,090
Is there any other business?

2014
02:50:05,950 --> 02:50:06,350
I was interested.

2015
02:50:06,350 --> 02:50:07,150
So Mr. Chairman,

2016
02:50:07,330 --> 02:50:13,250
we're not going to give the touted administrator any suggestions or advice.

2017
02:50:15,260 --> 02:50:16,780
Do you have...

2018
02:50:16,780 --> 02:50:17,780
Do we have some suggestions?

2019
02:50:19,060 --> 02:50:23,460
About three or four hours, but so...

2020
02:50:23,460 --> 02:50:25,100
I'll pass it on to him, private.

2021
02:50:26,160 --> 02:50:26,420
Okay.

2022
02:50:26,600 --> 02:50:27,120
That's great.

2023
02:50:27,920 --> 02:50:28,560
I don't mind.

2024
02:50:28,960 --> 02:50:33,280
I really appreciate all the work you put into this.

2025
02:50:34,220 --> 02:50:43,180
But my reaction to this budget from the one last year, the CIP, the last two years before this,

2026
02:50:43,180 --> 02:50:47,060
It's that so much has been pushed off and pushed back.

2027
02:50:48,240 --> 02:50:58,380
We may not be able to afford to do the things we really need to do unless we have a

2028
02:50:58,380 --> 02:51:05,840
lot of millionaires settling here and building back mansions and paying huge taxes and

2029
02:51:05,840 --> 02:51:13,000
not putting any kids in the school system, etc., etc., but I don't see that happening.

2030
02:51:13,000 --> 02:51:26,960
And so I think we're in danger of being an unaffordable community for many people, so.

2031
02:51:28,240 --> 02:51:38,600
But that's the result of having been here when the town offices were in the old courthouse.

2032
02:51:39,560 --> 02:51:44,360
We had a town clerk, we didn't have a town administrator,

2033
02:51:46,560 --> 02:51:48,060
the police station was in the

2034
02:51:48,060 --> 02:51:57,320
courthouse, public works, had a little building in a parking lot, so we have really built

2035
02:51:57,320 --> 02:52:09,480
a wonderful community with many departments, with many employees providing wonderful services,

2036
02:52:10,660 --> 02:52:19,580
but we're going to have to find some way to have more revenue coming in, so I think

2037
02:52:19,580 --> 02:52:21,020
you all know that.

2038
02:52:21,800 --> 02:52:22,860
Thank you, Todd.

2039
02:52:22,860 --> 02:52:29,960
I would just say that with the projects in the CAP that have been

2040
02:52:31,360 --> 02:52:39,940
Again, what you have before is not the final version, but in the initial that evening, the vast majority of them

2041
02:52:39,940 --> 02:52:49,400
are simply continued investment in the infrastructure needed to provide the services that we currently provide in a reliable way.

2042
02:52:49,400 --> 02:52:52,940
There's not a lot of extra in here.

2043
02:52:53,100 --> 02:52:56,160
There's really not any extra in here other than the link.

2044
02:52:56,640 --> 02:52:58,020
The link would be an example.

2045
02:52:59,640 --> 02:53:02,240
That would be something new, something different,

2046
02:53:02,780 --> 02:53:05,760
something better, bigger, providing more services.

2047
02:53:06,360 --> 02:53:07,500
That's a new thing.

2048
02:53:09,540 --> 02:53:12,760
But in replacing the ladder truck or the dump truck

2049
02:53:12,760 --> 02:53:16,820
at public works, the new truck would replace

2050
02:53:16,820 --> 02:53:40,920
And all the truck that really should be replaced because we rely on it, you know, as a frontline vehicle during the most critical times, you know, and for pieces of equipment like that, we've carefully valued whether it would be possible to go electric or go hybrid versus the traditional diesel type vehicle we use and there's not a viable option.

2051
02:53:40,920 --> 02:53:48,480
So we're doing it, we believe in the most efficient way to do that basic important public safety task.

2052
02:53:51,260 --> 02:53:56,100
So anyhow, the Medbury Road can play a street project.

2053
02:53:56,620 --> 02:54:00,060
Much of that was required to do the water needed to be done.

2054
02:54:00,220 --> 02:54:03,340
The wastewater needed to be done. The storm water needed to be done.

2055
02:54:03,440 --> 02:54:04,760
It needed to be repaved.

2056
02:54:04,760 --> 02:54:13,560
for a modest additional investment during got something really special. And could the council

2057
02:54:13,560 --> 02:54:19,340
have chosen not to take that extra step, it could have, but it opted based on a lot of feedback

2058
02:54:19,340 --> 02:54:24,940
from the public to move ahead without enhancement. So we have an enhancement. The Milpine

2059
02:54:24,940 --> 02:54:31,620
Dam is another example. It's a project that we had to do something, it's a big change, there's a cost,

2060
02:54:31,620 --> 02:54:35,480
It's not free, but we had to take action in some way.

2061
02:54:36,020 --> 02:54:38,520
And the council, the town, made a decision.

2062
02:54:40,360 --> 02:54:41,440
So I am just a bit...

2063
02:54:41,440 --> 02:54:41,480
Just a bit.

2064
02:54:42,120 --> 02:54:45,540
If I had one benefit advice to give,

2065
02:54:46,360 --> 02:54:50,620
is that take the very last item in the CIP.

2066
02:54:51,240 --> 02:54:54,900
The item is to purchase Samy's lock from the university

2067
02:54:55,500 --> 02:54:59,400
in 233 for one and a half million dollars.

2068
02:54:59,400 --> 02:55:11,220
I suggest we work to acquire that lock now sooner rather than later so the town would be

2069
02:55:11,220 --> 02:55:20,660
in a better position to negotiate with potential developers who want to take the large

2070
02:55:20,660 --> 02:55:26,860
amount of property on Main Street and the business central business district that backs up

2071
02:55:26,860 --> 02:55:35,720
and he's locked and be able to work out a development plan that will

2072
02:55:38,040 --> 02:55:43,820
integrate that town property with the private properties facing Main Street.

2073
02:55:44,820 --> 02:55:49,360
And frankly, I think the university has taken so many things away from us.

2074
02:55:49,360 --> 02:55:50,320
or a library,

2075
02:55:52,600 --> 02:56:00,400
the pool, which used to be a town pool, et cetera, that it might be time for

2076
02:56:00,400 --> 02:56:05,460
the university to give us something back, to give us Sami's lot.

2077
02:56:06,540 --> 02:56:06,760
I don't know.

2078
02:56:06,820 --> 02:56:07,080
I don't know.

2079
02:56:07,840 --> 02:56:07,960
I don't know.

2080
02:56:08,020 --> 02:56:09,360
It would be great.

2081
02:56:10,140 --> 02:56:10,200
I don't know.

2082
02:56:10,440 --> 02:56:10,540
OK.

2083
02:56:10,740 --> 02:56:16,700
Of the projects in the CP, there's a lot to unpack with each of them, but I would just say in terms

2084
02:56:16,700 --> 02:56:22,920
of the samis, also called the store 24-lit, also called the tideski lot.

2085
02:56:23,100 --> 02:56:31,040
We now call it the Bobcat lot, it's the lot behind what is, yeah, was young, is now Clark's.

2086
02:56:31,040 --> 02:56:31,560
That's right.

2087
02:56:31,620 --> 02:56:32,420
It's that lot.

2088
02:56:32,860 --> 02:56:33,800
So Southside.

2089
02:56:34,500 --> 02:56:40,140
So just so people know we're talking, that lot was part of one of the original Thompson

2090
02:56:40,140 --> 02:56:46,820
be quests to the university or to the state, and it literally takes an act of the state

2091
02:56:46,820 --> 02:56:55,280
legislature to sell pieces of that. And the university does not have an interest at the

2092
02:56:55,280 --> 02:57:02,020
present time in going to the legislature for such a request. And my guess is it's unlikely

2093
02:57:02,020 --> 02:57:09,260
the legislature would provide it. And when never knows what they might do with the idea if it's

2094
02:57:09,260 --> 02:57:16,820
to them with the current composition of this or future legislator, so I agree with you, I think

2095
02:57:16,820 --> 02:57:22,740
Durham should own that lot and have tried to move in a way that would allow us to acquire it.

2096
02:57:23,920 --> 02:57:31,040
And in fact, the year ago, I had a serious conversation with the planning team at UNH and the

2097
02:57:31,040 --> 02:57:39,120
finance team at UNH to see whether that might make sense for UNH to sell it to Durham as part of

2098
02:57:39,120 --> 02:57:45,200
the broader edge of West End Project, which would enable Derm to acquire the parcel, you

2099
02:57:45,200 --> 02:57:51,320
would need to receive some cash from Derm that it could then use toward the edge at West

2100
02:57:51,320 --> 02:57:58,560
End Project. But after we go review and put a review, it was determined by you in each

2101
02:57:58,560 --> 02:58:05,580
there was no interest. So that is simply a placeholder. And then I would just note that

2102
02:58:05,580 --> 02:58:12,520
former UNH outdoor pool built during the works project administration was never owned by the

2103
02:58:12,520 --> 02:58:18,620
town of Durham ever. It was always a university of New Hampshire facility owned and operated by

2104
02:58:18,620 --> 02:58:28,760
UNH. Durham made a modest contribution to subsidized the cost of passes for that. But.

2105
02:58:28,760 --> 02:58:34,640
Well, actually, that's an old argument we've had. For a long, a lot of reasons it's time came and

2106
02:58:34,640 --> 02:58:49,680
And we have a new pool, and I would argue, one of the best pools in the state of New Hampshire that's available to Durham residents at no cost, whatever, in terms of building construction or maintenance, Durham got such a deal.

2107
02:58:50,760 --> 02:58:57,580
And we don't have residents swimming in a pool that did not meet any of the modern health and safety standards.

2108
02:58:59,980 --> 02:59:01,680
So, there's that too.

2109
02:59:01,680 --> 02:59:03,320
Thank you, child.

2110
02:59:03,600 --> 02:59:04,080
I'm sorry.

2111
02:59:05,420 --> 02:59:05,740
Great.

2112
02:59:06,740 --> 02:59:07,560
Thank you.

2113
02:59:08,420 --> 02:59:09,440
Motion to adjourn?

2114
02:59:09,720 --> 02:59:10,040
Second.

2115
02:59:11,700 --> 02:59:12,360
All the favor?

2116
02:59:13,000 --> 02:59:13,320
Aye.

2117
02:59:14,760 --> 02:59:16,380
That was a motion to adjourn?

2118
02:59:16,380 --> 02:59:16,780
Yes.

2119
02:59:16,800 --> 02:59:16,960
It was.

2120
02:59:17,880 --> 02:59:18,040
Yes.

2121
02:59:20,930 --> 02:59:22,730
So I'll just say an outside of the room.

2122
02:59:24,010 --> 02:59:24,610
So to join.