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Number 23rd meeting of the Durham Plain Board. She'll come to order. We'll start with a roll call. Peter. Peter Howard. Peyton McBannis. Michael Barrett, town planner. Rob Sullivan cannot make it. And I believe Emma Hollander also cannot make it. And Heather Grant as well. And Gary. Oh, and Gary. Gary Whittington. Paul Rasmussen. Sally Tobias. Mike Lerman.

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All right, so Mike Lairman will be seated as the council rep and Julian Smith will

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take Rob Sullivan's seat and Peter, if we don't have Richard, you're a Richard

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Chair. Yeah, actually Peter, you're Gary. Okay. And

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I need to update. Hold on, I'll update my notes here. There

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we are. Okay.

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All right, approval of the agenda, it looks good to me.

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Anybody else?

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I move, we've announced it.

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Second.

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All in favor.

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Aye.

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Oh, are there any planning board members on Zoom?

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Just in case.

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Town Planners report.

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We're meeting next week, September 30th, as one of the months when there are five Wednesdays.

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And the items on the agenda, Paul, consented to my putting together sort of my last

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to raw miscellaneous zoning changes.

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So I'll have a document for you to look at with just mostly smaller things.

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But suggested changes all through the zoning ordinance.

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And then the second item on the agenda will be the continued discussion of downtown adjacent

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zoning.

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Our October meetings are the 14th and the 28th, and then we're having one meeting in November and one on December because of the holidays, the board usually has just one meeting in those months.

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And I think we did tell you about the, our prospective Newtown planner, Maddie Deiano, who the council was going to hear her

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vote on her appointment at the meeting last week and fortune there wasn't a quorum at the council meeting, so that's back on the agenda for the 28th.

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I'm confident that the council will approve it, but it's not official until that happens, but she's tentatively starting work pending the council's action on Monday, October 5th, so that's in less than two weeks.

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And we will have about two months overlap for me to train her and orient her.

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And then I'm certainly going to be available after I retire on November 30th to help

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in any way her or anybody.

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As I'm a Durham resident, I'm only 20 minutes walk away.

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And Maddie will be able to join us for the October and the November meetings as well.

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That's it.

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Any questions, comments for Mr. Brant?

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Reports from Board members who serve on other committees.

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I do have something that's energy to be related.

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The state has just opened up another grant program for type 2 EV chargers.

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Charging infrastructure at travel and tourism oriented locations across New Hampshire.

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So if anybody has any thoughts about a place in town that might qualify, let the Energy Committee know.

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Yes, Jackson Rank, while they're redoing everything.

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Jackson Rank.

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All right.

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Tourism.

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Let me.

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Visitors.

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Transit.

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Lots of people going by.

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It's right by reform.

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Jackson

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Rank for.

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Town hall would be good too.

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Peyton could charge.

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I think wagon hill.

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All right, thank you, and any other committee reports?

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That council did not have a forearms that did not conduct any official business at the last meeting.

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But we did have a nice chat.

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Yeah, I gave a planning board report since they didn't have to vote on it, they accepted it.

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So on the town council, what's the status of the five-story downtown?

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That was continued.

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Well, we didn't have the quorum with the last meeting, so that was continued to the 28th.

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So, yeah, it's been 20 minutes and it's coming one day.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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All right.

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Review of old minutes of August 12th.

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I don't know.

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How do you think?

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I gave Michael some small corrections.

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I assume they're in this.

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They do not, but they will be all the ones

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that are straightforward.

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Then I'll move will you adopt these as presented?

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Second.

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Anyone else has something?

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All in favor of acceptance.

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I.

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All right.

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Post.

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All right.

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Public comment.

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Oh, I skipped over public comments.

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Anyone here with public comments?

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We'll move on to our next item, Mr. Berry.

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No, you're not Mr. Berry.

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Oh, you're actually in the stock.

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I thought you were, you know, you're just like our fire department folks.

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Okay.

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So I thought you were here for the CIP.

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Okay.

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Public hearing for 73, Biscatico Road Subdivision.

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Formal application for a three lot subdivision of 20 acres at Lot 73 to Scaticle Road,

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construction of new private road to access lots.

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William Goldstein, property owner, Chris Berry of Berry Surveying and Engineering Surveyor.

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Matt, P209, Lot 42 in a residence coastal district, and you are a different Mr. Berry.

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That is correct, Joe Berry of Berry Surveying.

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Chris couldn't make it to the mic, so he asked me to step in from.

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I know you guys have seen this project a handful of times, so I guess if you want to let me know if I start with the waivers, or how was it left off last time?

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Actually, the waivers is what I have my question mark next to, I wanted to make sure that the list of waivers was complete.

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Right, it's only the above ground for the above ground utilities in the first section of the site.

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Right.

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So for item 19, we have numerous requirements and road regulations.

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Oh, I'm sorry. Plus all the waivers for the road, right?

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Right. As well as the requirement to bury existing overhead electric lines.

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And so is that, is item 19 correct as written?

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Yes.

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Okay.

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Then, yes, please.

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Let's go over the waivers first.

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Okay, one by one or do you know what ten of them are all for the road?

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Do you want to wrap them all into one or yeah?

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All right, so waiver number one is to the road regulations section four, item 4.02

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to have minimum 20 foot wide pavement.

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The second one is road regulations section four, item 4.03, shoulder width.

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The third one is item 4.07, shoulder base core steps.

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The fourth is item 4.08, base and top course paving requirements.

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Number five is 4.09, gravel shoulder required.

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Let me pause here.

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So, basically the road is going to stay as it is at this point.

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Right, so they're just in driveway.

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They don't want to have to meet the road standards impact wetland buffers, potentially wetlands.

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And the fire department, they looked over this, they don't have any issues.

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No, none of the departments had concerns.

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No issues from any other departments.

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All right, does anybody on the planning board have questions about these road waivers?

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Nope.

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No.

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All right.

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We're good with the road waivers.

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Now, the overhead electric lines, and again, we basically just want to keep the site the way

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it is.

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Correct.

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Yeah, there's an existing utility pole just passed. I believe it's pronounced neomire driveway

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And it goes overhead from the Scratica road to that utility pole and then underground to the rest of the site

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And they wanted to leave it as is

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And not run underground from the road

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Yes, Mike one question going back to the road. Okay. Sorry, but I remembered what at the site walk

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There was some discussion about making a wide spot in the road for cars and vehicles to pass.

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That was, and that just got let go or it was being sent to the fire department for review.

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Okay.

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And that was good.

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And they seem to be okay.

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Okay.

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All right.

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Thank you.

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Okay.

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So, yeah, with the overhead electric, they want to leave this site as is, and not disturb the overhead power going to the site or the abutting lot, and that's the reason why, and that's the final waiver.

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And so the main reason for that is that that polls actually servicing and adjacent property that's not part of the subdivision.

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and changing it to underground from the road

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would require giving them a headache for that.

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What do people think?

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I mean, all the net new will be underground, right?

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It's just gonna, you're gonna use that existing above ground

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and then you're gonna come down

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and then the rest is gonna be run underground.

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Correct.

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And so from that poll, everything that's existing is underground

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and if they were to build a new structure,

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sure they would go underground as well.

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So we need to approve these waivers, correct?

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Yeah, you can approve them separately or as part of the whole thing that's wrapped into

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it.

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It's wrapped into it very good.

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I wanted to clarify that.

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Let's see, then we

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need to hold a public hearing, don't we?

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We haven't.

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Right?

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This is not a continued public hearing.

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We start the public hearing tonight.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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All right.

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Do you want to motion to open the public hearing?

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I'm sure.

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So moved.

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Second.

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Second.

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All in favor?

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All right.

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All right.

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All right.

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Wait, is there anyone here for the public who'd like to speak?

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My name is Jack Rosenberger, and I have quite a lot of 50 directly adjacent to the proposed new lot containing the existing garage.

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I want to start with a little context about why this issue matters to my family.

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Before moving to Durham, we lived in Massachusetts and had a difficult experience with a tear down and rebuild immediately next door to us.

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The existing house was replaced with a new house built essentially to the setback limit.

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A significant tree between the houses was removed and windows and the new house ended up directly aligned with windows and ours.

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There's always a very substantial and permanent loss of privacy.

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That experience directly influenced our move to their own.

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One of the things we value about this community is its wooded character, mature trees, houses with separation from one another,

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and development that generally feels integrated to the landscape.

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I understand that this subdivision would create a separate, buildable residential lot directly beside our property. I'm not objecting to the fact that a house may essentially be built there. What concerns me is approving that buildable lot now without knowing where the future houses anticipated to go and without addressing what happens to the substantial existing vegetation between that lot an hours. Once those trees are removed and a house is built, there's no practical way to restore the privacy that exists today.

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I spoke with Michael about this.

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My understanding is that the town's position is that the planning board cannot simply impose

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a permanent buffer along the property line and that the landscaping provisions do not

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apply here.

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He suggested I raise the issue with the board and ask the property owner whether he would

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agree voluntarily to a buffer that could then be recorded.

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I would very much like to do that.

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Mr. Goldstein is not here, but I would ask whether he would agree to preserve a reasonable

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vegetated buffer along the lot 50 boundary and have that protection recorded as part

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of the subdivision.

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I'm not asking for an area in which no tree could ever be touched because the reasonable

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restriction could allow removal of dead or hazardous trees, management of invasive species

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necessary utility work while preserving the basic screening function of existing vegetation.

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I'd also like to raise one related question about Article 22 of the zoning ordinance.

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Section 175-114 says that the landscaping article applies to subdivisions where a new street

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is involved.

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And the town's zone material is described as a new private road and described the existing

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and try driveways being proposed for uses

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that new private road.

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Article 22 also speaks about retaining healthy forest cover

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and contemplates landscaping and reforestation plants

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that can provide screens and buffer strips

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and critical locations.

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I understand the town believes those provisions

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do not apply here because the physical driveway

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always already exists.

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I don't want to turn tonight's hearing

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to a legal argument about that interpretation,

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but I'd appreciate clarification of its basis.

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More importantly, whether the protection comes

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from Article 22 or through a voluntary agreement

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with the applicant, I think the underlying planning objective is the same, preserving

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the wooded character of the area and addressing a foreseeable impact of creating a new residential

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building lot. I also think it would be helpful for the applicants to show where a future

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house on this lot is reasonably anticipated to be located. The subdivision regulations

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forced up design process calls for potential building sites to be tentatively located

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before streets and lot lines are finalized. I'm not suggesting the ownership would necessarily

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be permanently bound to one exact footprint but without even a tentative building location

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it's difficult for the board or the abouters to understand how this new lot may actually affect

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the neighboring properties. My concern is if these questions are left entirely until later they may

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not be another meaningful opportunity to address them. Once the subdivisions recorded and otherwise

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conforming single-family house may proceed through the building permit process without returning to

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the planning board. So I'm asking for three things. First clarification of whether article 22 applies

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and if the town believes it does not the basis for that interpretation.

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Second, identification of at least a tentative future building location on the garage lot

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so that its impacts can be understood now.

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And third, and most importantly, I'm asking the applicant to agree to a reasonable recorded

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vegetative buffer along our common boundary with appropriate exceptions so the existing screening

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and wood character as part of Durham are not unnecessarily lost.

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I think that would allow the property to be developed to also provide some predictability

242
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and reasonable protection for the existing neighborhood.

243
00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:15,540
Thank you.

244
00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:16,500
All right.

245
00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:38,940
I'm sorry. I missed your name in the very beginning. I apologize. Jeff Rosenberger and in terms of in relation to the lot, which exact property are you on?

246
00:18:38,940 --> 00:18:51,450
So do you see where the proposed new line between the rear house and the one, the garage.

247
00:18:51,970 --> 00:18:58,150
So you're up on share water and so you back up your lot backs from share water backs up

248
00:18:58,150 --> 00:19:09,730
on the back of that. Yeah, sure, sure, water is over here. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm, yeah, I am

249
00:19:09,730 --> 00:19:17,890
looking at it and it looks like you're only the corner's meat between you and the garage

250
00:19:17,890 --> 00:19:18,190
lot.

251
00:19:21,070 --> 00:19:25,090
It's more than, it depends what you mean by corner. Like it's not just a corner.

252
00:19:30,050 --> 00:19:30,530
There's

253
00:19:33,870 --> 00:19:42,530
Yeah, it won't reach it won't reach I see that but but that property is that's

254
00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:47,220
for the existing house

255
00:19:48,180 --> 00:19:51,100
It's going to be a budding your rear line

256
00:19:52,660 --> 00:19:54,660
That's not what I see on the map

257
00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:02,540
Where the garage is yeah, it's the lot that they just think garage is on that about my property

258
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:09,280
right so this is Michael yeah right that's the that's the new new proposed line

259
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:18,560
right I'm I look at that I think that's the soils line okay let me so we have

260
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:25,720
to show us the new property line she to she to yeah okay does extend further

261
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:27,860
All right, very good, very good.

262
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:36,120
And,

263
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:41,020
right, so the do

264
00:20:46,260 --> 00:20:47,440
-do-do-do

265
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:56,280
is there or is there.

266
00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,040
So she shows the 50-foot setbacks.

267
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,080
It shows the 50-foot setbacks, which effectively

268
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,160
creates two potential areas for a house.

269
00:21:05,500 --> 00:21:08,880
There's the one back there where the garage is now,

270
00:21:09,100 --> 00:21:12,360
and then there's one down near on the other side

271
00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:13,940
of the wetland at the corner.

272
00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:25,580
So those do do do and

273
00:21:28,360 --> 00:21:32,220
that's what I would consider to be potential build, you know, you're

274
00:21:32,220 --> 00:21:39,280
buildable areas with regards to that five and a half acre lot.

275
00:21:43,900 --> 00:21:53,320
Now, can we put sheep two up on the screen maybe so that and maybe even so we're discussing

276
00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,480
Mr. Rosenberg, you can see it as well as what's on him.

277
00:21:59,660 --> 00:22:00,720
So, yeah, so this is sheet two.

278
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:01,600
Right.

279
00:22:03,140 --> 00:22:04,020
Yep, there.

280
00:22:04,420 --> 00:22:06,420
So, in terms of the.

281
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:09,860
You can see the whole lot.

282
00:22:09,860 --> 00:22:11,160
Yeah, so you can see the whole lot.

283
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:11,580
Yeah, fine.

284
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:12,000
Okay.

285
00:22:12,340 --> 00:22:12,880
All right, yes.

286
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:17,760
So, this view shows the two potential areas where a housing.

287
00:22:18,060 --> 00:22:19,140
A house could be built.

288
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:30,840
And we generally do that to ensure that setbacks and such are capable of being done because

289
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:38,400
they'll need to run sewer and well on this as well.

290
00:22:38,700 --> 00:22:38,860
Correct.

291
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,060
They'll need a subsequent well there.

292
00:22:42,140 --> 00:22:42,360
Yeah.

293
00:22:44,700 --> 00:22:47,960
So we have on sheet three, which is up on the screen now.

294
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:54,040
So we shall propose a well location just downhill towards the Scaticor road at the garage.

295
00:22:54,740 --> 00:23:00,340
And we've done two test pits showing suitable soils for a septic system.

296
00:23:00,740 --> 00:23:02,580
That's not saying that it has to go there.

297
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,900
But that's the biggest area to build.

298
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:13,220
And most likely the house would be uphill of that to have the septic go gravity to a leaching area.

299
00:23:13,220 --> 00:23:18,860
Yeah, that's the stoke it confused. That's the soil line cutting through a little not the lot

300
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:25,300
Which which direction and you said uphill by I can't read that

301
00:23:25,300 --> 00:23:31,660
So actually there's a little mound so the garage sits on a little knob and

302
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:34,060
So they can go uphill

303
00:23:34,820 --> 00:23:36,300
slightly towards the

304
00:23:37,260 --> 00:23:39,760
Existing house on not 42

305
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:43,160
two, so there's a couple of different places they could build.

306
00:23:44,140 --> 00:23:45,900
They could add to the existing garage.

307
00:23:47,100 --> 00:23:50,020
It's all within the setbacks, and they

308
00:23:50,020 --> 00:23:51,820
could make the sewer work with the test pitch shown.

309
00:23:55,260 --> 00:23:58,980
So it would most likely be either towards the existing house

310
00:23:58,980 --> 00:24:01,780
or towards the garage and not towards the back.

311
00:24:03,340 --> 00:24:11,900
Like my abutting line, or it would be unlikely.

312
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:14,540
I mean, at least field could go elsewhere, too.

313
00:24:15,380 --> 00:24:21,580
Leach field could go elsewhere, it could probably slide down the hill and build it up a little bit if they wanted to.

314
00:24:21,780 --> 00:24:22,780
Yeah, correct, in the house.

315
00:24:23,500 --> 00:24:32,740
We did two test pits to prove for the subdivision that it's suitable soils so they could put the septic closer to lot 42's house and build right behind the garage.

316
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,220
They could build a house right where it says, proposed 4K leaching area.

317
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:47,200
So there's a pretty substantial building envelope there, and with no plans to build at the moment, it's hard to say, this is where the house is going to go.

318
00:24:58,340 --> 00:24:59,060
Thoughts, people?

319
00:25:00,740 --> 00:25:15,740
So Michael, just refresh us all, or particularly at least me anyway, with regard to the 50 foot setback there, what are the provisions in terms of maintaining any vegetative buffer that's there now?

320
00:25:15,740 --> 00:25:18,780
No, there's none. It's only a setback from structures.

321
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:24,620
In that area is vegetated now.

322
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:25,300
Yeah.

323
00:25:25,540 --> 00:25:26,000
Where's that here?

324
00:25:27,340 --> 00:25:28,400
Is it lots of trees?

325
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:29,260
Yep.

326
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,960
Yeah, I have the plan to overlay it on a satellite photo if it's helpful.

327
00:25:34,260 --> 00:25:34,420
Yeah.

328
00:25:37,260 --> 00:25:42,420
That existing garage that's there, can you see that from your property right now?

329
00:25:43,060 --> 00:25:44,760
Right now, no, in the winter, yes.

330
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,320
Right, when the leaves drop, yes.

331
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:52,900
But yeah, I didn't know it was there or the existing house for that matter until the first

332
00:25:52,900 --> 00:25:53,800
winter we were here.

333
00:25:54,020 --> 00:25:54,120
Yeah.

334
00:25:54,500 --> 00:25:57,560
At least drop and say, where's the driveway for that house?

335
00:26:10,660 --> 00:26:16,480
You're not, you haven't really had discussions with the owner regarding a vegetative buffer.

336
00:26:18,100 --> 00:26:20,140
No, this is the first time it's come up.

337
00:26:20,140 --> 00:26:31,720
I don't want to necessarily agree to leaving the buffer, but I assume anyone who builds here also doesn't want to look at the back of Mr. Rosenberg's house.

338
00:26:32,860 --> 00:26:36,520
People moved to Durham for the natural state of the land.

339
00:26:37,540 --> 00:26:42,720
So no one, I don't foresee someone building a house there, clear-cutting the lot to look into his backyard.

340
00:26:44,740 --> 00:26:45,960
That's just the way I see it.

341
00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:53,940
Yeah, it's not, I would agree with you that building lot there in that kind of middle area,

342
00:26:55,740 --> 00:27:01,140
you would see it, but you already see the other existing homes for other existing buildings,

343
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:07,080
but that vegetation, it would be highly unlikely and not very logical for somebody to take

344
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,900
it down in it, great expense to, I mean, they could have just said something clear cut it,

345
00:27:10,900 --> 00:27:30,060
But how would we deal with there's no way we can guarantee that and even I mean what is the what is the abilities of the owner of the lot to create that this falls into that the

346
00:27:32,870 --> 00:27:38,730
applicant if Mr. Goldstein the owner agreed to he could

347
00:27:38,730 --> 00:27:40,210
We could agree to anything as part of something.

348
00:27:40,830 --> 00:27:42,410
Are you going to make that a condition of approval?

349
00:27:42,410 --> 00:27:44,050
The planning board cannot require this.

350
00:27:44,410 --> 00:27:48,650
That becomes a question of whether or not the owner

351
00:27:48,650 --> 00:27:53,450
would want to do that on their own,

352
00:27:53,590 --> 00:27:56,570
which they could also simply do within the deed.

353
00:27:57,210 --> 00:27:57,970
Yep, they could.

354
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:05,060
In fact, it probably is stronger if it's done via the deed.

355
00:28:09,300 --> 00:28:17,900
But it goes back to the statement of, you know, we can't offer single family houses from

356
00:28:17,900 --> 00:28:25,400
single family houses, that's not within, as much as it sounds like as we should be able

357
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,940
to have the authority for that, we don't.

358
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:38,160
So my only point on that regard is whether the Article 22 of the zoning ordinance applies.

359
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:39,920
I was going to move on to that next.

360
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:47,300
So with regards to the private road being a new road.

361
00:28:48,500 --> 00:28:55,620
But in Article 22, that applies only to the common open space at a conservation subdivision.

362
00:28:55,620 --> 00:29:00,980
But there's landscaping provisions there, but they don't apply to a conventional single-family line.

363
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:05,340
So those are for conservation subdivision, that's a different, that's not the article.

364
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,500
It doesn't say that.

365
00:29:20,260 --> 00:29:23,240
I'm pulling it up as well.

366
00:29:27,070 --> 00:29:28,890
It says, this is the landscaping.

367
00:30:00,110 --> 00:30:09,830
Yeah, I mean, all of it, it's intent, it's, it's a common area as you, you, it would not be legal to impose these things on individual single-family laws.

368
00:30:10,810 --> 00:30:25,090
But it's, it's like an imposed on a sudden land, trees of special interest. I mean, theoretically, you could if there was, if there was, for example, trees of special number four, trees of special interest.

369
00:30:25,770 --> 00:30:26,330
You know,

370
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:35,420
for example, if there was a great tree on an individual lot, you could specify

371
00:30:35,420 --> 00:30:36,960
that that tree be protected.

372
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:47,260
You know, if there were, as part of a subdivision, if you identify specific resources on individual

373
00:30:47,260 --> 00:30:56,780
lots, stone walls, archaeological resources, you could require that those, specify those

374
00:30:56,780 --> 00:31:07,060
be preserved on individual lots, but not, you know, broader, you know, natural areas

375
00:31:07,060 --> 00:31:08,760
be preserved as wooded areas.

376
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:21,160
Yeah, I understand where Mr. Rosenberger is confused because the opening paragraph does

377
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,700
So does blend itself to be misinterpreted?

378
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:25,140
It does.

379
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:26,100
Yeah.

380
00:31:32,970 --> 00:31:35,430
That's one of the things I'm going to show you next week.

381
00:31:35,950 --> 00:31:36,430
Revisions.

382
00:31:36,750 --> 00:31:38,030
I'm trying to clean this up.

383
00:31:38,550 --> 00:31:38,790
All right.

384
00:31:39,650 --> 00:31:41,050
So one more question.

385
00:31:41,050 --> 00:31:43,330
Procedural question for Michael, please.

386
00:31:44,990 --> 00:31:48,550
If Mr. Rosenberger wanted to contact the current owner

387
00:31:48,550 --> 00:31:52,990
and talk about creating some sort of buffer that

388
00:31:52,990 --> 00:31:56,130
might be recorded in a deed, is that

389
00:31:56,890 --> 00:32:05,270
And if the applicant now was agreeable to that, could that become a part of the condition of the variance

390
00:32:05,270 --> 00:32:05,470
painting?

391
00:32:05,910 --> 00:32:13,530
Yeah, I would suggest including a condition on this that I would suggest approving it if there's no significant

392
00:32:13,530 --> 00:32:21,830
concerns, and including a condition on here under planned modifications that in the event that this

393
00:32:21,830 --> 00:32:33,410
This gentleman works out some arrangement with the property owner, and the property owner is willing to include that as a condition of approval, that will be identified on the final plans.

394
00:32:34,910 --> 00:32:37,370
So that might be an option for you to pursue.

395
00:32:38,250 --> 00:32:43,250
Yeah, if you approve the plans with the condition of maybe doing that in the future.

396
00:32:43,250 --> 00:32:43,490
That?

397
00:32:44,170 --> 00:32:44,670
No.

398
00:32:44,890 --> 00:32:49,150
What I was asking the question, the procedural question is, if you spoke with the current

399
00:32:49,150 --> 00:32:57,550
owner of the applicant and he was agreeable to put in some sort of buffer for 30 feet

400
00:32:57,550 --> 00:33:03,650
or whatever along the property line near your house, that could be conveyed to the planning

401
00:33:03,650 --> 00:33:08,850
board by the applicant and that could become, then, a condition of the variance being

402
00:33:08,850 --> 00:33:10,330
granted in the future, if I understand.

403
00:33:10,330 --> 00:33:16,910
So yeah, I mean, that can you could take action on this application tonight and include that contingent condition.

404
00:33:17,550 --> 00:33:27,190
So you say you approve it tonight and in a week or two or a month, Mr. Goldstein tells me I'm okay with a 50 foot non-wooded buffer.

405
00:33:27,730 --> 00:33:33,870
I'm okay with that being a condition, then Mr. Bairry includes it on the recorded plans.

406
00:33:33,870 --> 00:33:40,110
Yes, but if he says no, then he never gets back to you.

407
00:33:40,430 --> 00:33:45,610
We have a contingent and we don't know what there's nothing in it.

408
00:33:46,490 --> 00:33:51,150
Somebody who picks us up five years from now, there's nothing for the person to know what

409
00:33:51,150 --> 00:33:52,030
the answer was there.

410
00:33:52,150 --> 00:33:58,950
So you could give it like a time of month if nothing is agreed to within say a month after

411
00:33:58,950 --> 00:34:01,590
approval that it nothing happens.

412
00:34:01,790 --> 00:34:02,550
It just goes away.

413
00:34:02,550 --> 00:34:04,170
Yeah, because we can't require it.

414
00:34:04,290 --> 00:34:05,270
No, no.

415
00:34:06,410 --> 00:34:07,730
But I know Mr. Goldstein.

416
00:34:07,910 --> 00:34:09,730
I mean, I'm sure he would give us an answer.

417
00:34:13,870 --> 00:34:16,050
So does that mean we would take action on it tonight?

418
00:34:16,370 --> 00:34:18,130
Or would we would take action on it tonight?

419
00:34:18,130 --> 00:34:18,350
We would take action on it tonight.

420
00:34:19,010 --> 00:34:22,490
There would be this effectively a contingence,

421
00:34:22,750 --> 00:34:27,790
a precedent condition of Mr. Goldstein getting back to us,

422
00:34:27,930 --> 00:34:30,510
telling us whether or not there's going to be a buffer.

423
00:34:31,030 --> 00:34:32,390
Yeah, I mean, he could just tell me,

424
00:34:32,390 --> 00:34:40,110
And then I would let Mr. Barry know on your final plans, show this buffer or not, you know, the way they are.

425
00:34:40,650 --> 00:34:42,030
So it's pretty, it's pretty simple.

426
00:34:42,670 --> 00:34:51,630
So you would, in the wording, you would say, if that arrangement does happen that the said situation shall be put on.

427
00:34:51,670 --> 00:34:52,930
Showing on the plans accordingly.

428
00:34:53,310 --> 00:34:53,890
And, and be a condition.

429
00:34:53,890 --> 00:34:55,510
And recording is part of the deep way.

430
00:34:55,830 --> 00:34:56,310
Right, right.

431
00:34:56,310 --> 00:35:02,490
Or do we want to be that presumptuous that that's agreeable or simply ask for the

432
00:35:03,670 --> 00:35:10,430
a butter and the applicant to have a conversation and get back to the board within two weeks before the next meeting?

433
00:35:11,550 --> 00:35:13,010
You could do that if

434
00:35:13,010 --> 00:35:14,330
and see what they work out.

435
00:35:14,510 --> 00:35:21,350
But it's it's ready to be approved and if Mr. Berry wants really wants action tonight,

436
00:35:21,830 --> 00:35:25,530
It would not be, I don't think it would be appropriate to delay that.

437
00:35:26,090 --> 00:35:29,030
But maybe if they're not in any rush, maybe they'd do only to do that.

438
00:35:29,310 --> 00:35:33,210
I mean, we would like action tonight and we can have that conversation.

439
00:35:33,770 --> 00:35:38,190
It's unfortunate that it looks like the trees were cut on the butting lot all the way to the lot line.

440
00:35:39,930 --> 00:35:46,450
So now we have the buffer on our lot, I'm guessing Mr. Goldstein might be willing to do something.

441
00:35:46,450 --> 00:35:58,070
If you look at the existing house on not 42, there's 150 feet worth of trees still left fully wooded, so I don't anticipate that area to be cut, but I would leave.

442
00:35:58,250 --> 00:36:06,410
I would be willing to leave it at work it out with the landowners, we can put it on the final recorded plan if a buffer was a creed to.

443
00:36:09,230 --> 00:36:17,010
My preference would be, let's wrap this up tonight, with that intent, so the neighbors

444
00:36:17,010 --> 00:36:19,090
can work out what it's going to be.

445
00:36:21,630 --> 00:36:27,830
Mr. Barrett will write up the contingency item, whatever you'd like to.

446
00:36:27,830 --> 00:36:32,110
Yeah, it would be along the lines, I would add this as a condition for underplan modifications.

447
00:36:32,110 --> 00:36:53,110
In the event that this gentleman, this gentleman has the option if he wishes to speak with the property owner and request some sort of buffer on this lot, in the event that the property owner agrees to that and agrees to make that a condition of approval, this will be incorporated into the final recorded plans.

448
00:36:55,290 --> 00:37:04,230
If the owner does not agree to anything, then nothing will be, no changes will be made, and you could put a time limit if you wish.

449
00:37:04,890 --> 00:37:11,650
But by the time, even if I don't hear otherwise from Mr. Goldstein, then it's assumed it's not happening.

450
00:37:11,950 --> 00:37:16,330
And then they would just give us the final plans and a month or two and record them.

451
00:37:17,270 --> 00:37:20,870
This pretty calm is no, I don't see any issues with this.

452
00:37:21,730 --> 00:37:29,750
But just to speak to that, just for one second, it seems like this is the point of a public

453
00:37:29,750 --> 00:37:38,650
comment, which is to raise a concern, and an abutters raised a concern that seems like

454
00:37:38,650 --> 00:37:45,290
a real concern, and that if we move forward in the manner that I think is being proposed,

455
00:37:45,910 --> 00:37:48,750
it seems like sort of all the wind is out of the sail, if you will.

456
00:37:48,750 --> 00:38:03,570
And so the time to have the concern dealt with seems like it would be now, while there's a public concern that's raised and while it's in front of us, before it moves forward and sort of becomes non-existent.

457
00:38:04,190 --> 00:38:15,330
So I would, it would seem to me that we may want to pause on that for a brief period of time and see if the two parties can sort of work something out that then is,

458
00:38:15,330 --> 00:38:22,730
let's say codified in some language or then that we can look at and know that

459
00:38:22,730 --> 00:38:27,390
something's taken place. So I would sort of pause, I think, on this a little and

460
00:38:27,390 --> 00:38:31,870
say that we've heard a public comment, the public comment seems to me to be

461
00:38:31,870 --> 00:38:38,650
real and that we may want to pause on that and not move forward. That's just the

462
00:38:38,650 --> 00:38:43,770
thought. And I guess given the fact that we have a meeting in one week this could

463
00:38:43,770 --> 00:38:50,570
be dealt with rather rapidly if the board is willing to say, okay, we can take five minutes

464
00:38:51,090 --> 00:38:58,930
at the beginning of the next meeting and if they've got an agreement cemented, gets voted

465
00:38:58,930 --> 00:39:03,570
on and it's approved, so when we delay, if they don't then go ahead and improve it anyway.

466
00:39:04,630 --> 00:39:12,870
My only concern is the only reason for us to delay would be because of something that we

467
00:39:12,870 --> 00:39:15,630
We don't have the purview over, we don't have the right to stop anyways.

468
00:39:16,330 --> 00:39:24,110
And that's my only point of contention in waiting is that we don't have the right to stop,

469
00:39:25,150 --> 00:39:34,050
to acquire it, and we don't have the right to tell anybody they can't, you know, cut

470
00:39:34,050 --> 00:39:36,450
up to their boundary line if they want to.

471
00:39:38,350 --> 00:39:45,430
So I just feel that I think the scenario that Michael point, you know, kind of laid out

472
00:39:45,430 --> 00:39:47,570
is probably the best way to go that way.

473
00:39:48,590 --> 00:39:53,610
They can get it taken care of, and we're not holding them up for something that we don't

474
00:39:53,610 --> 00:39:57,230
really have the right to hold them up for, might be.

475
00:39:57,750 --> 00:40:04,470
I agree with Sally and I think we should move on to see if anyone else has anything at

476
00:40:04,470 --> 00:40:13,130
public hearing. So I agree. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Rosenberg. Are there any other

477
00:40:13,130 --> 00:40:14,690
public comments?

478
00:40:19,260 --> 00:40:22,900
Anybody that I know if we close the public hearing? Second.

479
00:40:25,930 --> 00:40:26,850
All in favor?

480
00:40:31,940 --> 00:40:37,940
So I'm with Sally and Julian. I think that, you know, we don't have a reason to not take action

481
00:40:37,940 --> 00:40:47,860
tonight. But we can continue, we can set up the, set the table for the neighbors to have a discussion

482
00:40:47,860 --> 00:40:53,900
and to come to an agreement that can be included within the action.

483
00:40:56,380 --> 00:40:57,620
Is that acceptable to everybody?

484
00:40:57,620 --> 00:41:03,720
Just a question for Michael first, and I agree with this, but could you clarify

485
00:41:03,720 --> 00:41:08,240
By deed versus dealing with this in the deed that is outside the planning board

486
00:41:08,240 --> 00:41:10,820
process as opposed to the subdivision plan.

487
00:41:11,260 --> 00:41:14,340
That's an option that's not involved.

488
00:41:14,460 --> 00:41:22,200
If you didn't want to deal with this at all, then Mr. Rosenberg could still talk to Mr. Goldstein.

489
00:41:22,260 --> 00:41:25,140
They could do that privately with the deed, independent of the board.

490
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:32,300
But there is an advantage, I mean, if they do come to agreement, there's a benefit to

491
00:41:32,300 --> 00:41:33,100
on the plan.

492
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:33,940
Yes, I understand.

493
00:41:38,820 --> 00:41:39,300
The discussion?

494
00:41:39,500 --> 00:41:40,300
Is this making noise?

495
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:41,040
No.

496
00:41:42,140 --> 00:41:42,340
Okay.

497
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:45,440
All right.

498
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:46,580
So any further discussion?

499
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:49,620
Oh, Mr. Chair, I'm sorry.

500
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,600
Just one other item I realized should be added.

501
00:41:53,340 --> 00:42:01,620
Under Plan Notes, a condition 8, that should say any new electric lines serving

502
00:42:01,620 --> 00:42:03,440
the lots shall be placed underground.

503
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:04,660
Plan notes.

504
00:42:04,660 --> 00:42:10,740
just so there's no question about that which would be the vacant lot a lot

505
00:42:10,740 --> 00:42:16,480
with the garage plan notes on this school impact fees number eight yeah just

506
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:22,860
added in there anywhere under plan notes okay now do we have to have a separate

507
00:42:22,860 --> 00:42:29,840
motion to prove the waivers you can if you want or you can just we can do it as

508
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:31,520
Part of the full approval.

509
00:42:33,660 --> 00:42:34,300
All

510
00:42:36,610 --> 00:42:42,370
right, so the modification to would be the electrical,

511
00:42:42,370 --> 00:42:43,310
you just mentioned.

512
00:42:43,770 --> 00:42:43,950
Yeah.

513
00:42:44,490 --> 00:42:48,610
And this plan modification note.

514
00:42:49,350 --> 00:42:51,270
With the regarding a buffer.

515
00:42:51,570 --> 00:42:52,050
Regarding a buffer.

516
00:42:52,170 --> 00:42:52,310
In the event.

517
00:42:52,930 --> 00:42:54,210
Yes, amenable.

518
00:42:54,550 --> 00:42:55,010
All right.

519
00:42:55,370 --> 00:42:59,470
So those are the two modifications to the notice of decision

520
00:42:59,470 --> 00:43:03,510
tonight. You're okay with the notice of decision otherwise?

521
00:43:03,930 --> 00:43:05,710
Yep. I mean, I'm okay with those two new ones.

522
00:43:08,010 --> 00:43:11,650
Okay. And I

523
00:43:13,820 --> 00:43:22,740
will move that we approve a three-lot subdivision with a private road at 73

524
00:43:22,740 --> 00:43:29,720
Piscatical Road, property owner William Goldstein, map 209, lap 42 in the residents' coastal

525
00:43:29,720 --> 00:43:38,100
district per the modified notice of decision of September 23rd, 2026.

526
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:48,500
Second. Any further discussion? All in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed? All right.

527
00:43:48,980 --> 00:43:50,740
I'll abstain. One abstention.

528
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:58,400
All right. Thank you. Thank you very much. Good luck with your conversation.

529
00:44:11,910 --> 00:44:32,650
The next item will be a public carrying for 121 technology drive, light industry buildings, site plan application for two light industrial or warehouse buildings, each with 160,000 square feet, 450 parking spaces and other improvements, conditional use application for activity within 75 foot wetland buffer, lot line adjustment application.

530
00:44:34,310 --> 00:44:36,670
R.J. Kelly, here's Sean Smith, owner,

531
00:44:36,790 --> 00:44:40,270
budget Susan, Matt Peterson for Keach Nordstrom Engineer,

532
00:44:40,510 --> 00:44:43,430
Matt 204, lots one in two in the office research

533
00:44:43,430 --> 00:44:44,910
light industry district.

534
00:44:45,610 --> 00:44:48,950
Focus of the discussion will be on storm water

535
00:44:48,950 --> 00:44:51,070
and the conditional use request tonight.

536
00:44:59,150 --> 00:44:59,970
Just one.

537
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,260
All in a minute, Mr. Chair, well, I guess you're right.

538
00:45:04,740 --> 00:45:09,760
We're definitely going to want to see your drawings or data.

539
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:33,940
So, Matt Peterson is not with us this evening. But we do have Brendan Quigley and Bridgett here. And for the record, Sean Smith, RJ Kelly, co, you're on behalf of ownership.

540
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:41,680
As I pull up my PC here, we'll get going in. Mr. Chair, as you stated,

541
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:46,280
We'll be focusing on the conditional use permits and the storm water the

542
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:51,340
evening to give a little bit more color on the storm water specifically.

543
00:45:52,180 --> 00:46:01,420
And have a conversation about the two conditional uses that we have proposed here to discuss and have a conversation.

544
00:46:01,860 --> 00:46:01,860
So

545
00:46:19,070 --> 00:46:27,910
would the board prefer to start on any particular item or otherwise I think we'd probably start with the storm water piece.

546
00:46:27,910 --> 00:46:28,650
Start water, please.

547
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:44,440
Show us where the water goes.

548
00:46:44,780 --> 00:46:46,040
It's the name of the presentation.

549
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:47,160
I'll have to be up here.

550
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:48,240
This way.

551
00:46:48,500 --> 00:46:48,540
Yeah.

552
00:46:48,700 --> 00:46:48,880
Okay.

553
00:46:51,750 --> 00:46:53,010
Thank you for your patience.

554
00:46:58,340 --> 00:46:58,660
All right.

555
00:46:58,820 --> 00:47:02,460
So Bridgette will do most of the talking on this one.

556
00:47:02,540 --> 00:47:04,000
She's the one who designed everything here.

557
00:47:04,180 --> 00:47:06,980
So she can give you a good rundown of how things are working.

558
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:08,580
And I'll just try to keep up, I guess.

559
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:08,920
Yeah.

560
00:47:09,500 --> 00:47:14,060
And we can send this to you guys after this meeting so that the entire

561
00:47:14,060 --> 00:47:15,740
board can take a look at it a little more detailed.

562
00:47:15,740 --> 00:47:23,400
but essentially this is the Great and Endrainage Plan. I did a full site overview for you guys for

563
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:32,700
readability. In the green lines, those are the subcatchment areas that are a part of the

564
00:47:32,700 --> 00:47:39,890
drainage analysis. So it's like the area breakout that goes to each drainage structure, whether that's

565
00:47:39,890 --> 00:47:43,410
roof drain or a catch basin or directly to a pond.

566
00:47:44,470 --> 00:47:48,130
In the purple, we have the actual drain lines.

567
00:47:49,750 --> 00:47:54,290
And then I also circled all of the catch basin locations

568
00:47:54,290 --> 00:47:58,710
in red and the roof drain locations in orange.

569
00:48:01,250 --> 00:48:04,170
And then I included some flow arrows on here.

570
00:48:04,410 --> 00:48:06,250
So if you want to just zoom into any section.

571
00:48:07,170 --> 00:48:13,410
So the dashed arrow line, that is also taken from our drainage analysis and it just shows,

572
00:48:13,830 --> 00:48:19,110
I got to adjust them a little bit, but it just shows the flow path to the catch basins

573
00:48:19,110 --> 00:48:26,850
and then I have a directional arrow on all the purple drain lines just showing the flow of direction.

574
00:48:28,450 --> 00:48:30,430
You want to zoom into this area.

575
00:48:30,430 --> 00:48:34,250
So we'll start with the catch basins, right?

576
00:48:34,450 --> 00:48:42,350
So when it rains out, stormwater is directed to one or of many catch basins on this property.

577
00:48:43,030 --> 00:48:51,530
The entire perimeter is curved, so any stormwater that hits pavement within this new proposed

578
00:48:51,530 --> 00:48:54,490
area is captured by a catch basin.

579
00:48:54,490 --> 00:49:03,650
The catch basins are equipped with a snout and that snout's purpose is to prevent floatables

580
00:49:03,650 --> 00:49:11,670
like trash, leaves, debris, as well as hydrocarbons, so any oils, petroleum that might come

581
00:49:11,670 --> 00:49:18,550
off of a car or a truck would be on the surface of that standing water in the catch basin.

582
00:49:19,470 --> 00:49:24,490
And then any heavy sediment would fall out in that structure.

583
00:49:25,310 --> 00:49:30,090
So in our operation and maintenance plan, we include a schedule for these structures

584
00:49:30,090 --> 00:49:31,070
to be inspected.

585
00:49:31,630 --> 00:49:40,750
And then the standard protocol is once the deep sump is approximately a third full, that

586
00:49:40,750 --> 00:49:45,490
requires it to be cleaned out so that it can continue to capture some of that sediment prior

587
00:49:45,490 --> 00:49:48,370
to moving downstream to our treatment structures.

588
00:49:49,930 --> 00:49:52,750
The snouts actually have a vent on them as well.

589
00:49:52,930 --> 00:49:55,350
I think it's important to point out.

590
00:49:56,110 --> 00:49:59,870
So it just prevents siphoning in larger storms.

591
00:50:00,290 --> 00:50:04,690
It removes that chance for a vacuum,

592
00:50:05,010 --> 00:50:08,590
so that those hydrocarbons in the trash stay on the surface

593
00:50:08,590 --> 00:50:10,690
of that water where the inlet comes in.

594
00:50:12,110 --> 00:50:14,090
So from the catch basins, it moves

595
00:50:14,090 --> 00:50:20,870
through a series of pipes to drain manhole structures and eventually to one of four

596
00:50:20,870 --> 00:50:26,310
ponds on the site? If we could just pause for a minute. Are there any questions on how

597
00:50:26,310 --> 00:50:31,250
this catch basin sort of functions as its first step? One question, your presentation.

598
00:50:31,590 --> 00:50:36,810
Thank you. Just curiosity questions. So in terms of the capacity, I assume this is like a typical

599
00:50:36,810 --> 00:50:43,890
catch basin, but if there was a spill from say a truck diesel tank, 80 gallons or so spill,

600
00:50:44,250 --> 00:50:49,070
what's the capacity of one catch basin to hold 80 gallons of fiber carbon?

601
00:50:50,410 --> 00:50:57,690
I don't have the exact number off the top of head, but typically the snouts are about 12 inches

602
00:50:57,690 --> 00:50:58,690
It is below the outlet.

603
00:51:00,030 --> 00:51:09,110
So you're talking about a foot within a four or five foot structure, quick math in my

604
00:51:09,110 --> 00:51:09,290
head.

605
00:51:10,130 --> 00:51:15,670
I do think it's a point to note on an event such as that.

606
00:51:16,230 --> 00:51:18,690
The first step is spill response, right?

607
00:51:19,270 --> 00:51:27,670
Every single user of that nature would be required to have spill response get the

608
00:51:27,670 --> 00:51:32,710
It's on site adequate to manage something of their larger nature, right?

609
00:51:33,230 --> 00:51:37,950
So absorb to the pads, some people throw kiddie litter and nobody really does that anymore.

610
00:51:38,530 --> 00:51:42,470
But anything that would soak up the oils and prevent it from running off and then be

611
00:51:42,470 --> 00:51:46,150
able to collect it in a way that it would keep it from getting here at first place, right?

612
00:51:46,570 --> 00:51:52,470
So a spill like that is normally handled immediately on site in that particular location before it

613
00:51:52,470 --> 00:51:56,010
gets to one of these any sort of residual would be the point of this basis.

614
00:51:56,970 --> 00:52:00,330
How many catchabasants will there be for these two new buildings?

615
00:52:01,010 --> 00:52:04,530
I don't know the exact number we can zoom out.

616
00:52:04,650 --> 00:52:05,950
There's quite a few.

617
00:52:07,830 --> 00:52:12,050
Now you can see every, I am sorry I'm about to run here, every single one of these red dots.

618
00:52:12,650 --> 00:52:13,990
Is it catchabas?

619
00:52:14,010 --> 00:52:14,770
Is it catchabas?

620
00:52:14,950 --> 00:52:16,190
And they all have a snout, right?

621
00:52:16,330 --> 00:52:17,930
Yeah, they would all be equipped with one.

622
00:52:17,930 --> 00:52:32,850
So especially in the lines that are sequential from a catch basin to a catch basin to a catch basin there be more capacity to collect even more hydrocarbons.

623
00:52:33,330 --> 00:52:33,450
Okay.

624
00:52:33,870 --> 00:52:33,910
Yeah.

625
00:52:34,650 --> 00:52:40,270
What percent of catch basins installed on projects do you have that snout feature?

626
00:52:41,910 --> 00:52:50,110
Nowadays most of them, it's pretty much a requirement or something that engineers just

627
00:52:50,110 --> 00:52:55,110
automatically include now, whether a town has that requirement not, it just depends

628
00:52:55,110 --> 00:52:59,550
town to town, but it's pretty much an engineering standard practice now to always include

629
00:52:59,550 --> 00:53:00,050
one of those.

630
00:53:00,690 --> 00:53:06,290
I would say in New Hampshire specifically, because we do work in both like Massachusetts

631
00:53:06,290 --> 00:53:12,170
New Hampshire, other areas in New England, sometimes you have like an area drain or catch

632
00:53:12,170 --> 00:53:16,530
basin that does not collect runoff from a paved surface or something that would be exposed

633
00:53:16,530 --> 00:53:23,070
to vehicular runoff or the potential for lights amounts of oils that just so happen to fall

634
00:53:23,070 --> 00:53:30,710
off as people's offerings is what they do. Sometimes those don't come with the sound, but in general

635
00:53:30,710 --> 00:53:32,810
in this sort of application you almost always see them.

636
00:53:35,010 --> 00:53:36,630
All right. Any more questions?

637
00:53:36,630 --> 00:53:37,630
What were on the oil?

638
00:53:38,470 --> 00:53:49,370
Do most of the spill response plans start at those catch basins, or do they wait until the oil is migrated to the retention of detention?

639
00:53:50,350 --> 00:53:56,870
No, those are immediate, so like there's something on the pavement, we've got to soak it up and get ready.

640
00:53:57,670 --> 00:53:57,730
Yep.

641
00:53:59,860 --> 00:54:03,420
And a lot of those businesses, like they're required to have that prepared.

642
00:54:03,420 --> 00:54:12,480
and it's reviewed and submitted to either the state or federal all right so for the upper

643
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:18,240
parking area and the lower parking area so the parking areas to the north and the south and then

644
00:54:18,240 --> 00:54:27,660
the drive aisle around the perimeter those series of catch basins pipes and manholes they are directly

645
00:54:29,500 --> 00:54:33,340
connected to one of three gravel wetlands.

646
00:54:34,240 --> 00:54:37,680
The parking court for the tractor trailers in the middle,

647
00:54:38,180 --> 00:54:41,600
that first goes to a dry detention pond.

648
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:44,360
So it comes into a sediment for bay.

649
00:54:45,020 --> 00:54:51,520
Sediment for bay allows more time for sediments to fall out.

650
00:54:52,180 --> 00:54:56,160
It slows the velocity of storm water coming into the pond.

651
00:54:56,160 --> 00:55:02,340
So those larger storms where you're seeing a larger volume of water. It dissipates that velocity of the water

652
00:55:03,460 --> 00:55:08,780
From there it spills over into the storage area. I just included a

653
00:55:08,780 --> 00:55:13,980
picture of a typical dry detention. You can see the inlet area

654
00:55:14,660 --> 00:55:23,860
There is some stone rip wrap there. R is more of what would be required for a full pond even though a dry detention

655
00:55:23,860 --> 00:55:29,460
Pond doesn't provide treatment per New Hampshire standards.

656
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:37,580
We wanted to make sure we included an actual structural sediment for bay to allow more time for sediment fallout.

657
00:55:38,820 --> 00:55:44,520
So once it collects in the for bay, it makes its way through the pond into the outlet structure.

658
00:55:45,220 --> 00:55:51,140
And then that outlet structure is directed to the third gravel wetland on the site.

659
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:57,800
So, once we get to a gravel wetland, we have a four bay in each one of the three.

660
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,820
Sean, there's an image further down, we can take a look at it too.

661
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:10,220
So, starting on the left hand side, that would be an overflow from the four bay.

662
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:14,520
They're not always built with a pipe.

663
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:22,760
This is just an image taken from the New Hampshire Stormwater handbook, so your

664
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:28,580
4-B would be off screen to the left. So it spills over from the 4-B. It goes into

665
00:56:28,580 --> 00:56:36,360
a bonding area, the first treatment cell for the gravel wetlands, and inside

666
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:41,580
those gravel wetlands there would be some standpipes. You'd have a larger typical

667
00:56:41,580 --> 00:56:46,660
two foot, and then you'd have a series of eight inch diameter pipes that are

668
00:56:46,660 --> 00:56:52,760
perforated. It allows that stormwater to go into the gravel underneath a

669
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:59,840
wetland layer that is vegetated. So this area, the gravel wetland area, excuse me,

670
00:56:59,980 --> 00:57:06,600
the gravel area underneath that substrate. That area is an anaerobic area, so it

671
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:15,800
allows a breakdown of between oxygen to break down nitrogen and phosphorus, your two

672
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:22,100
biggest concerns for your pollutants, to break them down to a level where the vegetation

673
00:57:22,100 --> 00:57:30,160
above them can actually pull them up those nutrients from their roots and provide nutrients

674
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:32,040
for that growth, right?

675
00:57:34,020 --> 00:57:37,340
Your water, gravel wetlands is more of a horizontal motion

676
00:57:37,340 --> 00:57:40,740
for treatment, so it makes its way through that treatment cell,

677
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:44,820
and then it goes into an under drain within the gravel,

678
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:48,240
and it makes its way into a second treatment cell,

679
00:57:48,980 --> 00:57:53,480
where it gets more time for those nutrients to be absorbed.

680
00:57:54,580 --> 00:57:58,720
Eventually, it makes its way to the outlet control structure,

681
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:04,960
where there's an under drain connected to it and then your lowest orifice, your smallest

682
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:14,080
hole coming out of that structure before it outlets out of the pond, is located at

683
00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:23,740
that substrate area where the vegetation grows. So, your gravel layer is always saturated

684
00:58:23,740 --> 00:58:29,300
So, it's always promoting treatment of any water that's in there.

685
00:58:30,830 --> 00:58:36,580
So in your low flow storms, there are small ones where it's one inch or two year storm.

686
00:58:37,830 --> 00:58:40,940
You'd have flow out of the outlet control structure.

687
00:58:42,260 --> 00:58:48,760
And then in your larger storms, these ponds were sized to hold up to 100 year storm.

688
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:54,880
So, you're talking about, I believe it's approximately eight inches of rain over 24-hour

689
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:55,300
period.

690
00:58:55,840 --> 00:59:00,340
So, we're holding all that water in that pond and then the outlet structure is equipped

691
00:59:00,340 --> 00:59:06,400
with, you know, larger holes, orfaces in order to let some of that water out for the largest

692
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:14,700
forms so that we have a full, you have a full drawdown with the exception of that gravel

693
00:59:14,700 --> 00:59:23,340
layer to allow the pond to drain within 72 hours. And that's per requirements of New Hampshire,

694
00:59:24,060 --> 00:59:28,780
Stormwater Manual. Any questions first before I continue?

695
00:59:31,710 --> 00:59:35,510
We're good. Okay. So I want to discuss

696
00:59:35,510 --> 00:59:38,190
why gravel wetlands are chosen on this site.

697
00:59:40,250 --> 00:59:44,750
As we know, UNH is very big in determining and studying

698
00:59:44,750 --> 00:59:48,830
and do an analysis of storm water throughout the state.

699
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:56,610
The state of New Hampshire DES has worked with UNH to develop the most recent storm water

700
00:59:56,610 --> 00:59:58,490
a manual which came out last year 2025.

701
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:11,140
And in that, they actually rated treatment options for stormwater, as well as updating kind

702
01:00:11,140 --> 01:00:18,020
of their regulations for alteration of terrain when you disturb more than 100,000 square feet,

703
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:25,040
what your options are, depending on what your downstream receiving waters are. So as you

704
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:28,380
There's no Oyster River is very important to you.

705
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:36,800
It's classified as a Class A surface water, and in the regulations presented by the state,

706
01:00:36,940 --> 01:00:45,540
there's only two options for treatment on a site that drinks to a receiving water that's designated as a Class A.

707
01:00:45,780 --> 01:00:53,120
And Gravel Wetlands is one of them, a buyer retention with additional internal storage is the other.

708
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:55,840
They both operate in a very similar manner.

709
01:00:56,400 --> 01:01:05,160
You have an area where you're allowing vegetation or a filter media to grab some of those

710
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:09,480
nutrients and remove them from the water before discharging downstream.

711
01:01:11,100 --> 01:01:20,000
Actually where this regulation is pointed out in the AOT regulations is under discharged

712
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:21,260
minimization requirements.

713
01:01:21,260 --> 01:01:29,680
It's not even listed in a separate section, like a treatment soil or an infiltration chamber

714
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:30,420
system would be.

715
01:01:30,980 --> 01:01:37,720
It's actually listed for the record, 1507.03 is the section.

716
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:49,100
And it's directly listed for phosphorus removal, for nitrogen removal, and for any stormwater

717
01:01:49,100 --> 01:01:52,440
within a quarter mile of a class A surface water, which we are.

718
01:01:53,560 --> 01:01:57,860
And gravel wetland is right at the top of the list for those, so that's why we chose

719
01:01:57,860 --> 01:01:58,460
that option.

720
01:01:58,660 --> 01:02:05,460
It's one of the best treatment options out there, especially on properties where you cannot

721
01:02:05,460 --> 01:02:07,300
promote infiltration like this one.

722
01:02:09,390 --> 01:02:10,290
We have any more questions.

723
01:02:11,510 --> 01:02:18,110
What happens when a gravel wetland becomes clogged with silt?

724
01:02:20,140 --> 01:02:26,690
So we put those upstream treatment trains in for a reason, right?

725
01:02:26,950 --> 01:02:37,770
So as long as you are taking care of your scheduled maintenance, so that's every spring and

726
01:02:37,770 --> 01:02:46,210
In every fall, there's requirements, and then within the first five years for gravel, wetland especially, there's additional, so it's a quarter a year, you're inspecting these.

727
01:02:46,810 --> 01:02:49,410
So as long as you're doing those things, you shouldn't have a problem.

728
01:02:50,630 --> 01:03:01,150
But in that case, the under drain, being connected to those perforated pipe stand pipes that allow, it would allow some opportunity to clean that out.

729
01:03:01,150 --> 01:03:06,830
But worst case scenario, you have to remove gravel and then replace the gravel.

730
01:03:07,510 --> 01:03:13,950
But there's been some studies done by UNH that show a great lifespan for gravel wetlands.

731
01:03:14,330 --> 01:03:20,730
You know, I think the last one that I just read was 20 years, and the pollutant removal

732
01:03:21,350 --> 01:03:26,330
loads were practically identical 20 years apart, so it's a very good option.

733
01:03:26,330 --> 01:03:36,950
And so much so that New Hampshire DOT almost all their projects now when they're doing renovations or needs to put in a new storm water treatment trains.

734
01:03:37,150 --> 01:03:38,790
They're including gravel wetlands.

735
01:03:39,950 --> 01:03:45,670
So there's a few I know right off of route four as you go up towards 16 in Dover.

736
01:03:46,230 --> 01:03:48,470
There's a few cells there.

737
01:03:48,470 --> 01:03:55,550
And there's some off of 93 when they did all the road work for the expansion of adding

738
01:03:55,550 --> 01:03:58,110
that lane on 93 in the Windamaria.

739
01:03:59,490 --> 01:04:04,830
So if you look around, they're all over the state, but it's a very vital option, especially

740
01:04:04,830 --> 01:04:10,210
when you're trying to remove pollutants like nitrogen, phosphorus, and even zinc.

741
01:04:11,230 --> 01:04:17,670
And when these catchabasins are cleaned out, where does the material letters were moved go?

742
01:04:17,670 --> 01:04:24,710
So they're vacuumed out, and then those companies that have that contract dispose of that material with

743
01:04:25,450 --> 01:04:30,350
in regards to how the state and federal requirements make them handle that.

744
01:04:30,670 --> 01:04:36,190
So whether it's a designated dump site, or if they have to do some treatment,

745
01:04:36,470 --> 01:04:39,350
it's whatever the federal regulations and state regulations require.

746
01:04:41,450 --> 01:04:42,810
And just a question.

747
01:04:42,810 --> 01:04:46,830
And you mentioned it's designed for 100 years event,

748
01:04:46,830 --> 01:04:48,990
which I think you said was like eight inches

749
01:04:48,990 --> 01:04:50,270
in a 24-hour period.

750
01:04:50,670 --> 01:04:51,350
Yeah, roughly.

751
01:04:51,790 --> 01:04:56,050
And so what I just know anecdotally,

752
01:04:56,110 --> 01:04:59,390
it seems like recently the storms, many storms

753
01:04:59,390 --> 01:05:01,050
that I see are more severe.

754
01:05:03,310 --> 01:05:05,470
And if we were to look forward, I guess,

755
01:05:05,770 --> 01:05:08,450
is that a realistic 100-year estimate looking forward?

756
01:05:08,710 --> 01:05:09,970
And then what happens in the event

757
01:05:09,970 --> 01:05:16,370
that you get ten inches in a 24-hour period, what does that mean to all of the capacity

758
01:05:16,370 --> 01:05:17,210
that you've played out?

759
01:05:17,950 --> 01:05:25,950
So in terms of a larger storm event first, it would depend on the insensity in timing.

760
01:05:26,610 --> 01:05:32,930
So we kind of look at eight inches, you can look at eight inches being dumped within

761
01:05:32,930 --> 01:05:37,670
And then two hours over, you know, say 20 inches and then four inches in the rest, right?

762
01:05:40,690 --> 01:05:46,930
But the ponds are equipped with an overflow grate, right?

763
01:05:47,030 --> 01:05:47,850
It's four by four.

764
01:05:48,710 --> 01:05:50,350
Every single pond is designed with that.

765
01:05:50,930 --> 01:05:57,790
And in our modeling, we're not utilizing that overflow as the orifice, right?

766
01:05:57,850 --> 01:06:02,190
We're trying to get all of the stormwater out through the holes in the side of the structure.

767
01:06:02,190 --> 01:06:19,930
So in the event of a larger storm, it would overflow via that rim first, and then if that doesn't meet the capacity, you would install a berm along that berm that pulls all that water, you have an emergency spillway.

768
01:06:20,610 --> 01:06:24,410
And that's just how majority of storm water ponds are constructed.

769
01:06:26,410 --> 01:06:29,530
So in a larger storm event, that would be utilized.

770
01:06:30,950 --> 01:06:46,190
We don't model anything more than a hundred year, because I know in recent times we have seen larger storm events, but we're still coming up from a time in the 80s and 90s where you were lucky if something was sized for a 25 year storm.

771
01:06:47,290 --> 01:06:56,670
So we're trying to mitigate storms up through the 100 year, but requirements even at the state level are only until the 50 year.

772
01:06:58,130 --> 01:07:11,850
And I'll tack on a little bit there, I'm sorry, you know, I spent a good part of my career when I was an engineer studying these things and understanding how where we're heading and what the, you know, what, how climate change adaptation is going to impact us.

773
01:07:13,390 --> 01:07:23,510
When it comes to calling something a 100 year storm, it's important to understand that, you know, it's a 1% chance of occurrence in a year.

774
01:07:23,510 --> 01:07:29,790
here based on measured rainfall that people have taken gauges for from NOAA, right, which

775
01:07:29,790 --> 01:07:32,730
ironically is doing a lot of work here in town out here.

776
01:07:33,490 --> 01:07:37,810
So it does change, right?

777
01:07:38,230 --> 01:07:40,050
We have to expect that it will change.

778
01:07:40,950 --> 01:07:47,190
The issue becomes where it almost becomes a question of economic viability.

779
01:07:47,190 --> 01:07:55,370
If we start requiring all our basins to deal with a point, the next stage, which is really

780
01:07:55,370 --> 01:08:00,530
a 500-year storm, what most of these people will model for us and show us what those

781
01:08:00,530 --> 01:08:07,330
rainfills will be, you end up with situations where it's almost non-vival.

782
01:08:08,090 --> 01:08:12,030
It's really difficult to build to that in terms of storm water management.

783
01:08:12,030 --> 01:08:28,570
And it's all overlaid with insurance and how all that stuff operates, but at the end of the day where the crossing of sustainability, which is not just environmentalism, we can talk about environmentalism all day.

784
01:08:29,350 --> 01:08:39,590
But the crossing of sustainability, which considers social environmentalism and economic viability, because we have to continue to meet our needs.

785
01:08:40,790 --> 01:08:43,190
currently exist at that 100-year store on this location.

786
01:08:43,790 --> 01:08:49,570
And so that's why as engineers, we continue to model to that number until such time

787
01:08:49,570 --> 01:08:50,170
as it would change.

788
01:08:50,430 --> 01:08:52,610
Because at the end of the day, I'm from Indiana.

789
01:08:53,050 --> 01:08:58,610
I'm not sure if anybody knows what happened in that state this year, but there were areas

790
01:08:58,610 --> 01:09:03,010
that got 16 inches of rain, you know, you can't deal with that.

791
01:09:03,690 --> 01:09:04,550
It's what it is.

792
01:09:04,550 --> 01:09:10,030
It's widespread studies to make sure that regions are okay, not individual sites.

793
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:17,320
Could you address, so you talked about your spillways?

794
01:09:18,740 --> 01:09:26,540
If the spillways become active, do those follow the pattern down through your system or

795
01:09:26,540 --> 01:09:28,500
do they bypass the lower stages?

796
01:09:29,760 --> 01:09:36,640
It would be more of a bypass situation, so like for the top gravel wetland to the north,

797
01:09:37,340 --> 01:09:44,520
a bypass, excuse me, a spillway for that would spillway into the roadway and then it would

798
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:47,240
just make its way down that existing drive.

799
01:09:50,100 --> 01:09:55,100
It's curbed to a certain point and then it would just run overland because it's not

800
01:09:55,100 --> 01:09:55,740
curved anymore.

801
01:09:56,140 --> 01:10:03,020
So it would make its way into that existing fire pond and it would follow the existing

802
01:10:03,020 --> 01:10:03,940
contours out there.

803
01:10:04,820 --> 01:10:06,680
So the existing slope out there.

804
01:10:06,680 --> 01:10:14,620
So your new systems, though, each of those spillways, down through your gravel wetlands,

805
01:10:15,340 --> 01:10:18,360
it looks like there's those spillways there.

806
01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:25,540
And maybe I'm misinterpreting the red in the corner there and how that all works.

807
01:10:26,920 --> 01:10:28,920
Well, yeah, I know there's still always there.

808
01:10:29,720 --> 01:10:36,800
So, does this fill away from the first treatment part of the gravel wetland into the second,

809
01:10:36,920 --> 01:10:38,700
go into the second or visit bypass?

810
01:10:39,140 --> 01:10:41,440
It looks like it just by the second stage.

811
01:10:41,720 --> 01:10:44,140
So you're, I know it's two cells.

812
01:10:45,220 --> 01:10:49,220
Those two cells are more for your treatment portion, right?

813
01:10:49,420 --> 01:10:52,920
So that's for your one-inch storm, your water quality volume.

814
01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:59,880
That's what the state has determined is 1 inch and then your two-year storm I'd have to check the numbers

815
01:10:59,880 --> 01:11:04,660
Maybe even your 10-year storm, but that would naturally make its way through those cells

816
01:11:05,460 --> 01:11:07,280
Through that train that I've discussed

817
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:11,260
For your larger storms your 25 your 50 your 100-year

818
01:11:12,360 --> 01:11:18,740
You're automatically you're above those cell elevations and the high point of those cells that

819
01:11:20,340 --> 01:11:22,380
Disconnect them from each other and

820
01:11:22,380 --> 01:11:28,780
you're into another two to three foot layer additional storage and then if you

821
01:11:28,780 --> 01:11:32,280
had anything above that that's where your whole storm are you have one

822
01:11:32,280 --> 01:11:36,960
continuous burn around the outside and then that burn that separates the

823
01:11:36,960 --> 01:11:43,240
cells in the middle is a little bit lower so your spillway is on that outside burn

824
01:11:43,900 --> 01:11:49,080
and then so like I said for the top one it was a little bit dry so you fill both

825
01:11:49,080 --> 01:11:53,720
Well, before you hit this bill, yes, yes, thank you, absolutely.

826
01:11:54,320 --> 01:11:59,320
And I think one thing I'd like to highlight, when it comes to separating the concepts

827
01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:02,600
of water quality and water quantity, right?

828
01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:09,080
When we start talking 1% storms, even 25-year storms, we're talking about quantity management.

829
01:12:09,540 --> 01:12:16,000
We're preventing this site from discharging more water in those events than it would today.

830
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:20,180
Okay, and that helps with downstream flood protection, right?

831
01:12:20,940 --> 01:12:26,460
When it comes to quality, the storm events that we're concerned with are actually much

832
01:12:26,460 --> 01:12:30,980
smaller, because we deal with what's called the first flush all the time, and I'm not sure

833
01:12:30,980 --> 01:12:31,960
if you've heard that concept.

834
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:39,100
But that's typically the first inch of rainfall will typically be your quote unquote dirty rainfall.

835
01:12:39,620 --> 01:12:44,780
So these come with certain sizing mechanisms that Bridget's gone through and calculated

836
01:12:44,780 --> 01:12:50,140
to understand what that volume is to make sure that water gets treated to the level it needs

837
01:12:50,140 --> 01:12:50,880
to be treated to.

838
01:12:51,440 --> 01:12:57,000
And then anything above that is generally, quote unquote, clean water, much cleaner than

839
01:12:57,000 --> 01:12:59,600
that first flush because we've washed off everything that's sitting on the pavement.

840
01:13:00,300 --> 01:13:00,600
Right?

841
01:13:00,760 --> 01:13:02,600
So now you're just managing the quantity of the water.

842
01:13:08,630 --> 01:13:09,510
Any more questions?

843
01:13:10,850 --> 01:13:13,250
Do you have water shows on this?

844
01:13:14,290 --> 01:13:16,150
I think one thing I would like to discuss.

845
01:13:16,150 --> 01:13:23,350
Just, you know, we have a couple of conditional uses out there, but one waiver that kind of

846
01:13:23,350 --> 01:13:28,690
goes, you know, discussing with Michael a little bit by email today, maybe we want to discuss

847
01:13:28,690 --> 01:13:29,770
now are the slopes.

848
01:13:30,770 --> 01:13:32,370
We're asking for a waiver on the slopes.

849
01:13:33,970 --> 01:13:43,050
And the town requires three to one or less, so three horizontal, one vertical, something like

850
01:13:43,050 --> 01:13:43,310
that.

851
01:13:43,310 --> 01:13:49,630
We, in many other locations throughout New England, have gone to two to one slopes with slow protection.

852
01:13:49,850 --> 01:13:55,270
The reason we do three to one is not only from a maintenance perspective, but from a road abilities perspective.

853
01:13:56,070 --> 01:14:07,290
Once you put up an erosion protection on a two to one slope, the erosion concern typically goes away.

854
01:14:07,790 --> 01:14:11,930
Once you get it all stabilized, you can do that with erosion manning, which we're proposing.

855
01:14:13,310 --> 01:14:18,150
stone rip wrap which, you know, angular rip wrap locks things and there's a lot of different

856
01:14:18,150 --> 01:14:19,050
ways to accomplish that.

857
01:14:19,150 --> 01:14:24,050
Typically, you put them adding down, you let the seed grow and it's pretty stable, right?

858
01:14:24,570 --> 01:14:30,850
Unless you have a location where you're, you're discharging water fairly consistently which

859
01:14:30,850 --> 01:14:36,730
we're capturing all our water so only the water that lands and runs off will really be exposing

860
01:14:36,730 --> 01:14:38,010
us to erosion these locations.

861
01:14:38,010 --> 01:14:44,910
And even if there is a mild amount of erosion, it's captured by our grab allowance, right?

862
01:14:45,230 --> 01:14:50,710
So something that we'll be asking for as a part of the decision, I think we've adequately

863
01:14:50,710 --> 01:14:51,370
addressed it.

864
01:14:51,710 --> 01:14:54,010
But if there's any questions there, I'd like to discuss that too.

865
01:14:56,840 --> 01:14:59,640
Where are those two-to-one slopes in Asia?

866
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:29,900
We can see them here, the contour lines where they're much tighter, right? These are two to one. You can see the difference to the three to one slope. So, these are, yeah. Yeah. So, you can see how they're just a little bit tighter. We have on the north side as well, another location of two to one slopes. We're finding through some investigation that a lot of this will likely be exposed ledge face though. So, the erosion concerns sort of go away. But we'll do some more investigations when we come back.

867
01:15:29,900 --> 01:15:35,860
again, we're looking at ways to modify the northern side to help us out with some of the

868
01:15:35,860 --> 01:15:42,320
work we're doing up here. Now that the ledges have been discovered, so other than that,

869
01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:47,460
along just where you see these sort of tighter contour lines, that's where you have the two

870
01:15:47,460 --> 01:15:47,840
to one slopes.

871
01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:53,760
And as soon as you get into the pond areas, we transition to a three to one, that's a state

872
01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:58,760
requirement. You can't have anything steeper than a three to one slope in design of your

873
01:15:58,760 --> 01:16:05,060
storm water ponds. So we have three to one in those locations. And to speak to what

874
01:16:05,060 --> 01:16:10,580
Sean was saying, the main purpose of the two to one slope and why we utilize that and

875
01:16:10,580 --> 01:16:16,760
ask for the waiver is to shrink our impact footprint. So we're not so much into the buffer

876
01:16:16,760 --> 01:16:25,320
and avoiding any disturbance to existing wetlands or that buffer area to the maximum extent possible

877
01:16:25,320 --> 01:16:25,960
all with this design.

878
01:16:26,960 --> 01:16:28,760
And thank you, that's a good point.

879
01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:30,620
So if we went to three to one right,

880
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:33,680
we basically have to add a foot,

881
01:16:33,820 --> 01:16:35,240
every single one of these contours occur.

882
01:16:35,840 --> 01:16:38,800
So you have, there's about 15 feet max,

883
01:16:38,880 --> 01:16:40,700
so you're adding 15 more feet of disturbance

884
01:16:40,700 --> 01:16:43,780
into the wood, it's the wetland buffer,

885
01:16:43,980 --> 01:16:45,800
and it really, in a way, that's unnecessary,

886
01:16:46,220 --> 01:16:47,660
because we have ways to manage it.

887
01:16:48,120 --> 01:16:50,420
And similarly down here, although we're not right against

888
01:16:50,420 --> 01:16:52,560
a wetland buffer, if you push this out,

889
01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:57,200
Well the road gets pushed out, the pond gets pushed out, or the wetland gets pushed out.

890
01:16:57,340 --> 01:17:02,260
So we have the same consequence even though in essence it's not right against the edge.

891
01:17:02,520 --> 01:17:05,740
So this was, as Bridget said, a way for us to reduce our footprint a little bit.

892
01:17:07,340 --> 01:17:08,760
What's the landscaping plan?

893
01:17:09,100 --> 01:17:12,540
Oh, you said you're going to put down that and see long-term?

894
01:17:13,620 --> 01:17:17,640
Is that something you're going to have to bow at a two-to-one slope or is that going to

895
01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:22,240
to be some other stable, you know, vegetated surface.

896
01:17:22,400 --> 01:17:24,860
Yeah, typically, you know, two to one, I don't.

897
01:17:24,860 --> 01:17:27,420
Yeah, I mean, you know, our landscape, guys,

898
01:17:27,520 --> 01:17:29,360
have methods of taking care of that.

899
01:17:29,480 --> 01:17:32,200
A lot of times it will just let it grow in, right?

900
01:17:33,940 --> 01:17:35,740
And handle it a couple times a year.

901
01:17:36,720 --> 01:17:38,020
You know, there are native species

902
01:17:38,020 --> 01:17:39,860
that we can use on these slopes and things like that.

903
01:17:39,900 --> 01:17:41,920
Yeah, just worry about tires spinning on steep slopes

904
01:17:43,160 --> 01:17:47,140
and kind of get, you know, developing a stream,

905
01:17:47,640 --> 01:17:51,080
Yeah, I mean, we've personally, I've even done one-to-one slopes.

906
01:17:51,200 --> 01:17:54,740
I mean, typically, I armor those with rip rep because it is so hard to mo.

907
01:17:54,900 --> 01:17:57,980
But two-to-one, we've seen being able to manage, so.

908
01:17:59,060 --> 01:18:05,080
And can you just go through the technical advantage

909
01:18:05,080 --> 01:18:07,820
of having three-to-one versus two-to-one?

910
01:18:08,620 --> 01:18:16,020
If I understand that the town's requesting or likes to see a three-to-one,

911
01:18:16,960 --> 01:18:34,500
Is there a technical reason that a 3-to-1 is better than a 2-to-1, and then we're being asked for a waiver, so I just want to have some technical discussion on what is the disadvantage or disadvantage of that, so maybe you could just speak to why would we want a 3-to-1?

912
01:18:35,540 --> 01:18:44,620
I think the best analogy I've ever heard for this is you know you cook chicken to 165 right you cook chicken to 165

913
01:18:44,620 --> 01:18:50,740
if you look at the FDA guidance for it you can cook way less than that it's kind of wild but

914
01:18:52,040 --> 01:18:58,080
You cook chicken to 165 you only have to keep it there for three seconds and then you kill anything if you cook chicken to

915
01:18:58,080 --> 01:19:03,940
155 you keep it there for two minutes you're fine right and this matters to me because I like to smoke meat right

916
01:19:03,940 --> 01:19:08,340
I don't want to dry it out, but at the end of the day, it's kind of the same thing.

917
01:19:09,940 --> 01:19:13,980
Three to one is the default, safe way to go.

918
01:19:14,140 --> 01:19:15,060
You publish it for everybody.

919
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:20,320
You try to follow that methodology where you can and where it makes sense because it prevents

920
01:19:20,320 --> 01:19:24,100
the erotability of the soil naturally when you start getting steeper than three to one.

921
01:19:24,140 --> 01:19:28,600
You start to see soil rot a lot more easily, right?

922
01:19:28,600 --> 01:19:32,040
That is the real technical reason for it.

923
01:19:32,920 --> 01:19:37,760
The maintenance, the mowing, the maintenance, definitely gets easier on a shallower slope.

924
01:19:38,400 --> 01:19:42,500
But you can go to two to one if you handle it appropriately and you do it the right way.

925
01:19:42,700 --> 01:19:46,200
It still operates just the same way as a three to one slope.

926
01:19:47,480 --> 01:19:53,680
So is this purely an erosion control or is it a pollutant control or some combination?

927
01:19:54,540 --> 01:20:00,440
Well, if you have erosion, you're basically taking sediment in water and throwing it down

928
01:20:00,440 --> 01:20:00,980
a hill, right?

929
01:20:01,240 --> 01:20:05,260
So, when we talk about sediment capture in our catch basins, that's what we're talking

930
01:20:05,260 --> 01:20:05,460
about.

931
01:20:05,480 --> 01:20:09,500
We're talking about grabbing the dirt that lives on the pavements, gets picked up by the

932
01:20:09,500 --> 01:20:11,460
water and flows downhill to our catch basins.

933
01:20:12,100 --> 01:20:14,020
So, it's the same thing, right?

934
01:20:16,340 --> 01:20:21,100
Erosion has water that picks up dirt and washes it away with itself, right?

935
01:20:21,100 --> 01:20:27,020
So the concern is a roadability, but that's why we put the erosion manning not to prevent that from happening.

936
01:20:27,940 --> 01:20:34,300
By putting the erosion manning down, you're basically making it operate as a three to one slope from an erotability standpoint.

937
01:20:35,460 --> 01:20:41,640
Most communities I see try to do the three to one, but you don't have to do those extra measures on a three to one.

938
01:20:42,560 --> 01:20:45,860
Right, so we're adding those extra measures to make it operate in the same fashion.

939
01:20:47,160 --> 01:20:52,100
And then on the top portion of that, you're requesting two to one as well.

940
01:20:53,660 --> 01:21:00,040
But there are no catch-based concerns on the other side of that two to one.

941
01:21:00,260 --> 01:21:04,600
On the south side, it looks like there are, but on that side, they're not.

942
01:21:06,320 --> 01:21:11,000
This is like a magic eye picture for me, actually, because you look at this and you think,

943
01:21:11,160 --> 01:21:12,040
oh, we're going downhill.

944
01:21:12,760 --> 01:21:12,960
You're not.

945
01:21:12,960 --> 01:21:16,300
This is sloping from the top to the bottom by this plan.

946
01:21:17,640 --> 01:21:20,220
And it's confusing because you would think it would go to the well end.

947
01:21:20,640 --> 01:21:25,220
But the natural course right now is we have a knob here that we're knocking down.

948
01:21:25,800 --> 01:21:30,100
And we're bringing this grade down to these grades we show here.

949
01:21:31,360 --> 01:21:35,380
It's about a 20 foot cut at its highest part.

950
01:21:35,700 --> 01:21:37,180
So we're bringing this all down.

951
01:21:37,540 --> 01:21:39,740
So on that it's actually sloping like this.

952
01:21:40,040 --> 01:21:40,220
Correct.

953
01:21:40,220 --> 01:21:45,100
towards the car is slipping this way into your catch basins. Correct. And this is

954
01:21:45,100 --> 01:21:49,300
looking at the two to top the bottom at the two to one. Yep. And and you actually

955
01:21:49,300 --> 01:21:54,980
end up with sort of a a ridge line here. This is hard to see. But you zoom in a

956
01:21:54,980 --> 01:21:58,860
little more essentially that green line that follows the contours. That's the

957
01:21:58,860 --> 01:22:03,940
ridge line. And you can see the contour levels right there,

958
01:22:03,940 --> 01:22:06,560
at 125, 130, 135, so you can see this.

959
01:22:07,000 --> 01:22:10,960
It's uphill coming into the down into the side.

960
01:22:10,960 --> 01:22:13,140
So it's great out there right now, it's like this.

961
01:22:13,480 --> 01:22:16,460
And then this is our proposed site, right?

962
01:22:16,800 --> 01:22:17,660
And we're down here.

963
01:22:17,960 --> 01:22:18,100
Right.

964
01:22:21,200 --> 01:22:25,060
Does the town have any thoughts on this?

965
01:22:25,340 --> 01:22:26,080
I mean, I,

966
01:22:30,490 --> 01:22:32,550
on board experts are absent tonight.

967
01:22:33,010 --> 01:22:34,610
So if you have caution,

968
01:22:35,270 --> 01:22:40,610
I would say, let's hold the discussion to another meeting with regards to that.

969
01:22:40,710 --> 01:22:45,590
Yeah, I think the one thing, the two-to-one slope put in an unstabilized system,

970
01:22:45,710 --> 01:22:50,970
that's right at angle, or very near angle of repose for sediment, where it will self-avalanche.

971
01:22:51,570 --> 01:22:56,470
So that's why the stabilization is really important, some kind of erosion

972
01:22:56,470 --> 01:23:03,890
matting to protect the rainfall from really just triggering those downslope, natural

973
01:23:03,890 --> 01:23:05,030
downslope a little bit.

974
01:23:05,870 --> 01:23:09,650
So that's why most towns look for something better than two to one.

975
01:23:09,950 --> 01:23:15,950
It's right at that sweet spot where sand will just have an inch down.

976
01:23:17,650 --> 01:23:19,830
How long does the erosion matting last?

977
01:23:21,990 --> 01:23:29,310
Depending on what you specify, but anywhere from 18 months to three years, it's biodegradable.

978
01:23:30,810 --> 01:23:33,550
So Green American North, I believe, is the company.

979
01:23:34,270 --> 01:23:37,830
And they have different levels that you can install.

980
01:23:39,290 --> 01:23:44,550
And it would be something typical we do at 18 to two month a year.

981
01:23:44,670 --> 01:23:46,810
And that's a two years, excuse me.

982
01:23:46,810 --> 01:23:50,750
And that's enough time to get the seed to germinate and really stabilize that slope

983
01:23:50,750 --> 01:23:53,250
before it disintegrates.

984
01:23:53,450 --> 01:23:55,210
Yeah, and that's the critical component, right?

985
01:23:55,310 --> 01:23:58,950
The emotional matting exists for the plants to tickle.

986
01:23:59,090 --> 01:24:00,830
Once the plants tickle, the roots hold everything.

987
01:24:01,950 --> 01:24:07,810
So it's a temporary need, and once it grows in, we're in good shape.

988
01:24:10,080 --> 01:24:12,960
It's not something you have to replace every, you know, 18 months or three years,

989
01:24:13,120 --> 01:24:13,640
in other words, right?

990
01:24:13,640 --> 01:24:14,460
But I

991
01:24:18,230 --> 01:24:25,610
think what we want to do though, I don't think we want to make a decision on this

992
01:24:25,610 --> 01:24:26,050
one tonight.

993
01:24:26,990 --> 01:24:28,830
We don't expect to vote by any means.

994
01:24:28,830 --> 01:24:31,750
This can all come when we're all prepared here.

995
01:24:31,910 --> 01:24:33,570
We don't even have a peer review back yet, right?

996
01:24:33,670 --> 01:24:35,030
I'm sure that'll speak to it as well.

997
01:24:35,110 --> 01:24:39,590
Those two particular people would be very upset if we...

998
01:24:39,590 --> 01:24:39,790
Yeah.

999
01:24:39,790 --> 01:24:48,090
And so with regards the two conditional uses we had one for activities in the wetlands

1000
01:24:49,630 --> 01:24:57,070
Actually, we have one or two, but and that one we're still waiting here back in the Conservation Commission on so

1001
01:24:57,770 --> 01:25:07,050
Unless all I want to do with this is if there's anything that folks think the Conservation Commission would not be looking at that they are interested in

1002
01:25:07,050 --> 01:25:08,950
and make it known now

1003
01:25:12,440 --> 01:25:14,980
for that in a wetland field.

1004
01:25:15,620 --> 01:25:18,120
Now the warehouse use, we can,

1005
01:25:20,160 --> 01:25:22,800
that is a conditional use.

1006
01:25:24,500 --> 01:25:25,700
Anybody hat, I mean,

1007
01:25:26,260 --> 01:25:30,420
do we, what are people's thoughts on the warehouse?

1008
01:25:31,560 --> 01:25:34,840
Julian, can we establish firmly that we're not talking

1009
01:25:34,840 --> 01:25:38,040
or they're not talking about the possibility

1010
01:25:40,540 --> 01:25:44,060
artificial intelligence, data center.

1011
01:25:47,260 --> 01:25:53,740
We were talking about putting in an exclusion.

1012
01:25:55,920 --> 01:26:00,200
Well, they have, where is it?

1013
01:26:01,200 --> 01:26:02,800
No, that's not it.

1014
01:26:03,600 --> 01:26:09,940
There was a water usage limitation that if they go over,

1015
01:26:09,940 --> 01:26:13,100
or they need to come back to us, right?

1016
01:26:15,350 --> 01:26:19,490
Well, they go to a committee and they make a recommendation

1017
01:26:19,490 --> 01:26:23,410
to the town council, so that will,

1018
01:26:23,790 --> 01:26:25,650
if the council hasn't addressed that,

1019
01:26:25,910 --> 01:26:27,690
that will be a precedent condition.

1020
01:26:30,650 --> 01:26:32,250
I'm not sure I got an answer.

1021
01:26:32,890 --> 01:26:33,670
Well, the,

1022
01:26:37,040 --> 01:26:45,070
it is, when it comes to an AI data center use

1023
01:26:45,070 --> 01:26:47,570
that you're talking about, you don't know.

1024
01:26:48,330 --> 01:26:50,810
They're not set, they're not, they're, yeah.

1025
01:26:50,910 --> 01:26:51,430
Those are heat.

1026
01:26:51,950 --> 01:26:54,290
They're, these buildings are not set up

1027
01:26:54,290 --> 01:26:59,130
for really, they're not structurally,

1028
01:26:59,430 --> 01:27:03,850
because that's, to do that, the cooling systems,

1029
01:27:03,890 --> 01:27:06,150
you need and everything else, you require

1030
01:27:06,150 --> 01:27:07,170
a different type of building.

1031
01:27:08,330 --> 01:27:15,050
But, and with, and my comment about,

1032
01:27:15,070 --> 01:27:24,650
the site plan review regarding water usage is that they'll be if they exit. There's a certain

1033
01:27:26,370 --> 01:27:31,410
you think when we were talking about a use like that you're thinking about what's the impact right

1034
01:27:31,410 --> 01:27:35,430
yes yeah and so what impacts are you concerned about?

1035
01:27:38,960 --> 01:27:42,120
The many possible but this would be a small

1036
01:27:42,120 --> 01:27:53,500
I admit this would be a small possibility for a date of center, but this is a bigger

1037
01:27:53,500 --> 01:27:55,400
issue than tonight.

1038
01:27:57,040 --> 01:28:09,940
I'm asking this partly in connection with Michael's response to Mr. Calderwood who asked whether

1039
01:28:09,940 --> 01:28:17,280
that it was possible or impossible to have a data center at the technology to have sight.

1040
01:28:18,140 --> 01:28:24,240
Right, so I think it would be useful for the board to get some clarification on this.

1041
01:28:26,540 --> 01:28:31,820
Whether, and I think there's different kinds of data centers, there's different scales of data centers.

1042
01:28:32,580 --> 01:28:39,200
But I think it would be, and I'm not sure whether any of those would be allowed under our current zoning.

1043
01:28:39,660 --> 01:28:47,780
As I had mentioned, the three sort of uses that might encompass our office, light manufacturing, and warehouse.

1044
01:28:48,680 --> 01:28:53,060
And I don't think office would, light manufacturing might arguably.

1045
01:28:54,060 --> 01:28:58,360
So, but I do think it would be useful for the board, whether tonight or another time,

1046
01:28:59,060 --> 01:29:07,120
to be clear about what a data center is, the different kinds of data centers,

1047
01:29:07,900 --> 01:29:10,120
and if it would be appropriate or not.

1048
01:29:10,660 --> 01:29:17,320
And I think you may want to have a condition on an approval that would prohibit them.

1049
01:29:18,460 --> 01:29:24,240
We'd have to have a good reason, and we'd want to have a discussion with the applicant.

1050
01:29:24,800 --> 01:29:31,160
But I suspect that the kind of data centers we're thinking of would not be appropriate.

1051
01:29:31,400 --> 01:29:33,620
The applicant probably would not entertain that.

1052
01:29:33,940 --> 01:29:37,680
And I suspect that we could come up with some language that would work.

1053
01:29:38,000 --> 01:29:38,440
I disagree.

1054
01:29:39,220 --> 01:29:41,880
I don't think we could come up with some language that would work.

1055
01:29:43,220 --> 01:29:49,020
Because it's a way too complicated, it's a very, very complicated issue.

1056
01:29:49,640 --> 01:29:59,560
It's best handled as from the viewpoint of not treating it as a data center, but treating it as a

1057
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:29,000
They use, because if we're going to say you can't do a great data center, then we'd also want to say you can't do a greenhouse. Because a greenhouse, which I believe is allowed in that zone, would have potentially just as much water usage and electrical usage as a moderate data center. Which is why my point of it's the impacts you want to look at and restrict, not the use.

1058
01:30:29,000 --> 01:30:36,780
It would probably be intelligent for this board to become more educated on data centers.

1059
01:30:36,940 --> 01:30:39,280
But I think that is completely separate from this.

1060
01:30:40,960 --> 01:30:44,360
I think there's a lot of fear about data centers.

1061
01:30:44,920 --> 01:30:49,620
But when you look at this site, you're not even investing in anything that would,

1062
01:30:49,960 --> 01:30:56,120
what you're investing in, wouldn't be needed by the data center.

1063
01:30:56,980 --> 01:31:01,160
And you're not set up for it and to really make money data so these things are huge.

1064
01:31:01,520 --> 01:31:02,580
These things are huge.

1065
01:31:03,300 --> 01:31:06,720
And so that site is really not set up for that anyway.

1066
01:31:06,900 --> 01:31:13,020
So I don't think it's going to help us if we add a fear of something we're not really

1067
01:31:13,020 --> 01:31:13,660
educated in.

1068
01:31:13,760 --> 01:31:16,300
So I think when it comes to data centers, it's very hot right now.

1069
01:31:16,640 --> 01:31:20,440
It would probably do this for a lot of good if we could have some kind of presentation.

1070
01:31:20,740 --> 01:31:24,960
We could do some research to understand what it is and what the true impacts are.

1071
01:31:24,960 --> 01:31:28,200
So that we can create in zoning allowed or not.

1072
01:31:28,340 --> 01:31:32,260
I was going to bring this up next week, okay,

1073
01:31:32,500 --> 01:31:35,540
because it doesn't belong to an applicant's.

1074
01:31:35,540 --> 01:31:36,320
You're right, I agree.

1075
01:31:36,660 --> 01:31:37,240
A discussion.

1076
01:31:37,340 --> 01:31:37,580
I agree.

1077
01:31:37,960 --> 01:31:41,620
But the New Hampshire Association of Regional Planning

1078
01:31:41,620 --> 01:31:45,500
Commission has put together their first draft

1079
01:31:46,120 --> 01:31:51,580
of what plan boards need to do regarding data centers.

1080
01:31:51,580 --> 01:31:58,980
It's in the process of getting signed off, but I'm hoping I could have it in our hands by next meeting.

1081
01:31:59,360 --> 01:31:59,860
That would be great.

1082
01:32:00,320 --> 01:32:00,540
Okay.

1083
01:32:01,020 --> 01:32:03,120
But I don't really think it's anything to do with this particular.

1084
01:32:03,700 --> 01:32:04,720
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

1085
01:32:05,180 --> 01:32:12,580
And that said, I hope other members of the board will read the white paper you said last week.

1086
01:32:15,700 --> 01:32:25,400
and you should all have it. It's worth reading. It is very one sided. So let's move on.

1087
01:32:25,600 --> 01:32:29,520
And it will be the first of many because there's another eight.

1088
01:32:29,960 --> 01:32:32,820
There'll be part of next week. The next thing.

1089
01:32:32,940 --> 01:32:39,760
Oh, we're about to have the open the public hearing and then continue it till the next time.

1090
01:32:39,760 --> 01:32:49,960
time. We public hearing is already open for this. Has it been open? Well, didn't we have it at it's continued. It's continued. I mean,

1091
01:32:49,980 --> 01:32:57,540
if anybody wants to speak, I'll open the public hearing. Yes, I will open the public hearing. Is there anyone who would like to speak regarding

1092
01:32:57,540 --> 01:33:02,860
this specific specific issue? Do we have anybody on Zoom?

1093
01:33:04,940 --> 01:33:09,600
No hands up. No hands up? All right. What I was hoping to do is, though, is to talk

1094
01:33:09,600 --> 01:33:21,320
We talk about building height and the warehouse uses, conditional uses to see if we have any besides the idea that is it a warehouse or could it be a data center?

1095
01:33:21,840 --> 01:33:25,200
Are there other issues around the warehouse use?

1096
01:33:26,300 --> 01:33:31,960
I mean, I'm really not sure why we restrict warehouse use.

1097
01:33:31,960 --> 01:33:42,940
I think the reason that in some of those zones that light manufacturing office use is allowed by

1098
01:33:42,940 --> 01:33:50,860
right, whereas warehouse is a conditional use, probably the general, the town would prefer

1099
01:33:51,740 --> 01:33:56,800
light manufacturing, high technology, R&D, office use, to warehouse use.

1100
01:33:56,800 --> 01:34:01,860
It employs fewer people, probably has less value, may generate more truck traffic.

1101
01:34:02,580 --> 01:34:07,180
So there probably is a general preference, for-line manufacturing,

1102
01:34:07,540 --> 01:34:08,420
over-ware house.

1103
01:34:09,060 --> 01:34:10,800
We'll see how this plays out.

1104
01:34:11,080 --> 01:34:13,560
It's probably going to be a mix.

1105
01:34:14,860 --> 01:34:17,200
But I think that's the reason it's a condition to use.

1106
01:34:19,670 --> 01:34:20,630
My question.

1107
01:34:21,510 --> 01:34:26,810
Yes, so on the use question, the only thing that's sort of haunting me from the

1108
01:34:26,810 --> 01:34:31,170
presentation we had previously with regard to the travel, which I know we have a consultant

1109
01:34:31,170 --> 01:34:35,890
that's going to give us a report and review all that, relates, though, to the issue in

1110
01:34:35,890 --> 01:34:41,670
terms of what the use is that the use code, I think, was 10 that they, well, it was one

1111
01:34:41,670 --> 01:34:48,870
10 that the traffic engineer picked. So she said that the time that was the maximum, but

1112
01:34:48,870 --> 01:34:53,710
the question is sort of still in my mind. I asked this question at the site walk, is whether

1113
01:34:53,710 --> 01:34:59,170
and it might wind up in what I would call a retail distribution level as opposed to a

1114
01:34:59,170 --> 01:34:59,550
wholesale.

1115
01:34:59,790 --> 01:35:04,010
And my verb user, no one else, is if it's tractor trailer, tractor trailer, that's

1116
01:35:04,010 --> 01:35:07,190
one thing this limited number, tractor trailer is going to come and go because they're so big.

1117
01:35:07,770 --> 01:35:12,410
If it's tractor trailer coming in and small vans going out to deliver, it can be a whole lot

1118
01:35:12,410 --> 01:35:16,170
more vans than you would have if it was just all tractor trailers in and out.

1119
01:35:16,830 --> 01:35:18,790
And that's questions still in my mind.

1120
01:35:18,790 --> 01:35:24,710
And in terms of how it, the variant would have on the actual traffic counts and what that might mean for that.

1121
01:35:25,030 --> 01:35:26,590
Which I realize is going to be addressed in the future.

1122
01:35:26,770 --> 01:35:31,810
But I'm just related to the use, that was a question I just want to put on the record right now as a concern.

1123
01:35:32,310 --> 01:35:36,190
Okay, and I second that as well.

1124
01:35:36,670 --> 01:35:41,370
Only because no matter where that traffic goes, it's all going to go down technology drive.

1125
01:35:41,730 --> 01:35:45,310
And you do have 600 students living right there on technology drive.

1126
01:35:45,310 --> 01:35:56,130
And when I look at that road and I imagine traffic going all day back and forth there, I think pedestrians could be better served in terms of some access.

1127
01:35:56,370 --> 01:36:00,130
And it may not be all day, it may be a burst in the morning and then a burst in the afternoon.

1128
01:36:00,290 --> 01:36:00,810
Right, possible.

1129
01:36:00,910 --> 01:36:02,010
Either way, a lot of trucks.

1130
01:36:02,290 --> 01:36:07,950
I know I'm not presupposing anything, but I know Amazon's delivering things at my house at 4 o'clock in the morning.

1131
01:36:07,950 --> 01:36:14,670
And so there's a lot of activity depending on what goes in there.

1132
01:36:14,810 --> 01:36:14,890
Yeah.

1133
01:36:15,810 --> 01:36:16,230
All right.

1134
01:36:17,510 --> 01:36:18,790
What about building height?

1135
01:36:21,500 --> 01:36:23,840
Are there any issues with building height?

1136
01:36:24,480 --> 01:36:27,400
Is building going to be higher than any of the trees around there?

1137
01:36:28,980 --> 01:36:30,480
50 feet probably.

1138
01:36:31,440 --> 01:36:31,820
No.

1139
01:36:32,340 --> 01:36:33,600
I don't think anybody's going to see it.

1140
01:36:34,260 --> 01:36:35,780
It's hard to see that site.

1141
01:36:36,420 --> 01:36:37,480
Unless you're in it.

1142
01:36:38,580 --> 01:36:42,340
And you had to remember there's a significant cut for those buildings too, so yeah.

1143
01:36:45,840 --> 01:36:52,480
Because we're shorthanded and we require five yays for ignition use, I don't recommend

1144
01:36:52,480 --> 01:36:54,120
we go for an action on the floor.

1145
01:36:54,120 --> 01:36:54,680
No, that's you.

1146
01:36:55,100 --> 01:36:56,600
Yeah, I'm going to take action.

1147
01:36:57,300 --> 01:37:00,180
For unconditionally, this is what I have seven voting members.

1148
01:37:00,180 --> 01:37:12,700
So with regards to that, to reiterate, we're waiting on a conservation commission regarding

1149
01:37:12,700 --> 01:37:19,920
the two wetland related ones, there's some concerns about, and I believe the term that

1150
01:37:19,920 --> 01:37:25,100
was used by a traffic study person was Amazon style warehouse.

1151
01:37:28,440 --> 01:37:32,100
And the building height looks to be not an issue.

1152
01:37:34,200 --> 01:37:44,360
I will say, you know, I'm happy to provide our knowledge to this board regarding data centers at what point that you choose to explore that item.

1153
01:37:45,960 --> 01:37:54,920
With respect to last mile distribution or all the different types of facilities that Amazon uses, we've had experience developing Amazon facilities before.

1154
01:37:54,920 --> 01:37:59,120
or they're extremely particular about how they operate.

1155
01:37:59,640 --> 01:38:06,700
And there would be immense changes to this site in order to accommodate anything that they would want to do in particular.

1156
01:38:06,900 --> 01:38:09,340
And I know I'm citing them specifically.

1157
01:38:10,000 --> 01:38:16,260
There are also, you know, we got to talk about how this board would qualify FedEx or

1158
01:38:16,260 --> 01:38:24,180
DHL or those types of delivery companies as well, because essentially they do operate in a similar fashion.

1159
01:38:24,180 --> 01:38:27,800
and they're not sending out fleets of vans, right?

1160
01:38:28,560 --> 01:38:31,520
But they do have, you know, you can picture a UPS truck

1161
01:38:31,520 --> 01:38:32,740
leaving a facility.

1162
01:38:33,100 --> 01:38:36,460
So I will have our traffic engineers speak to that.

1163
01:38:36,780 --> 01:38:39,920
When we come back and we return to have the traffic conversation,

1164
01:38:40,680 --> 01:38:43,140
I do know that light industrial is very close

1165
01:38:43,140 --> 01:38:46,420
and mimics those for my understanding,

1166
01:38:46,600 --> 01:38:47,780
but I don't want to misspeak.

1167
01:38:47,780 --> 01:38:58,660
So I think when it comes to data centers the only one, the one thing I'll say we have no intention of doing that here at this time.

1168
01:38:58,900 --> 01:39:11,200
However, it's, you know, time has a way of changing things and it could be a very long time away from, from when we even own this building or I'm even alive at this site could be repurposed.

1169
01:39:11,200 --> 01:39:12,620
So I fully understand the question.

1170
01:39:13,240 --> 01:39:15,260
It's something I do suggest the board get in front of,

1171
01:39:15,400 --> 01:39:19,340
but the good news is these facilities require a lot of water

1172
01:39:20,440 --> 01:39:22,880
and not only does this board have to weigh in,

1173
01:39:22,960 --> 01:39:24,740
but the city council will have to weigh in on that as well.

1174
01:39:25,360 --> 01:39:27,380
So the town retains a ton of control

1175
01:39:27,380 --> 01:39:29,100
when it comes to that sort of thing.

1176
01:39:29,800 --> 01:39:32,560
For Mr. Chair, I believe you mentioned something

1177
01:39:32,560 --> 01:39:35,240
about restricting the water here.

1178
01:39:35,480 --> 01:39:37,040
So if that becomes a condition,

1179
01:39:37,340 --> 01:39:38,780
there's a lot of certainty for this board

1180
01:39:38,780 --> 01:39:43,000
in the public about what can go here without further conversation.

1181
01:39:43,320 --> 01:39:44,000
All right.

1182
01:39:45,770 --> 01:39:46,610
Thank you.

1183
01:39:48,570 --> 01:39:51,610
Was there anything else that we were going to cover?

1184
01:39:51,770 --> 01:39:53,630
Well, you have the wetland scientists here.

1185
01:39:54,350 --> 01:40:03,230
And your, the conditional use for the WCOD includes both your purview over filling of the

1186
01:40:03,230 --> 01:40:09,870
wetlands, which is there's some proposal there, as well as activity within the wetland

1187
01:40:09,870 --> 01:40:17,090
buffer. So I know the you've spoken before but it's probably a good time to ask you

1188
01:40:17,090 --> 01:40:22,690
know for you to explain a little more and respond any questions. Mr. Chair is that

1189
01:40:22,690 --> 01:40:28,950
does that make sense? I if there are any particular questions I mean we've been

1190
01:40:28,950 --> 01:40:33,810
shown the two fingers believe it was two fingers that we're going to get filled in.

1191
01:40:40,500 --> 01:40:48,740
Yeah, my plan, if I was asked to do so, would be to first ask.

1192
01:40:48,900 --> 01:40:56,780
If there was any questions from the site walk, as been noted, we still have concluded our

1193
01:40:57,200 --> 01:41:01,220
work with the Conservation Commission next Tuesday, I believe.

1194
01:41:03,900 --> 01:41:10,560
where I think we may be get a little bit more detailed with some of the things that came up during the site walk.

1195
01:41:14,160 --> 01:41:24,480
Generally we saw almost all the impact areas, I don't believe we walked up to the tiny little triangle on the northern edge of the site.

1196
01:41:27,300 --> 01:41:37,080
But generally, I hope it was clear as my intention to demonstrate that these areas where impacts

1197
01:41:37,080 --> 01:41:45,320
are posed while wetlands are certainly important in the context of water quality given the proximity

1198
01:41:45,320 --> 01:41:56,620
either oyster river, we're not in fact significant in a lot of other, for a lot of other

1199
01:41:56,620 --> 01:42:03,680
function. And the importance of that would be some of what's discussed here with respect

1200
01:42:03,680 --> 01:42:14,500
to stormwater controls. And the level and quality of what's being proposed will mitigate

1201
01:42:14,500 --> 01:42:23,180
any small potential effects from impacts to these fingers and edges that are well-upgradient

1202
01:42:23,180 --> 01:42:32,960
from the core of wetland where it's wetter and which are likely performing the bulk

1203
01:42:32,960 --> 01:42:33,780
of that function.

1204
01:42:36,320 --> 01:42:38,780
That really is the key point.

1205
01:42:38,780 --> 01:42:53,000
I mean, there was some other discussion regarding the possibility that the well into the north would be de-watered somehow by that cut.

1206
01:42:55,600 --> 01:43:03,240
We had probably planned a more detailed conversation with the Conservation Commission, I think that's probably appropriate.

1207
01:43:03,240 --> 01:43:33,140
But I understand the concern, but the soils, the nature of the soils here is demonstrated by the soil survey, the site specific soil survey that was done for the project indicates that the soils in this area are such that the water table in that wetland is perched.

1208
01:43:34,340 --> 01:43:40,180
and that below that is very, very low permeability for those soils.

1209
01:43:40,180 --> 01:43:48,600
They are just poorly drained, dense mineral soils, so that is really just a run-off area,

1210
01:43:48,600 --> 01:43:58,560
and it's really not connected to groundwater in a way that would pose a risk of having to be do water

1211
01:43:58,560 --> 01:44:00,680
by cutting into that slope.

1212
01:44:01,200 --> 01:44:05,540
So in addition, there's a burn on top, which would prevent it from actually spilling over.

1213
01:44:07,260 --> 01:44:16,980
So that's sort of the gist of, you know, that concerns what really wanted only concerns

1214
01:44:16,980 --> 01:44:18,540
that was voiced at the site walk.

1215
01:44:18,760 --> 01:44:25,320
So again, I guess I'd ask if there was any specific questions I could answer, and I will likely

1216
01:44:25,320 --> 01:44:28,800
be back to ask again.

1217
01:44:28,800 --> 01:44:28,920
Yeah.

1218
01:44:31,690 --> 01:44:59,970
Peter. I ran into the yellow jackets before I made it down into that we were headed for. And boarded at that point, is there any, so I didn't see this for myself. Is there any indication that there's a femoral, you know, intermittent flow into any of those fingers, spring, runoff kind of thing, or is it all just, you know, forced to wet them? So is it all based on soils? Are there any indication of freedom?

1219
01:45:02,240 --> 01:45:29,980
You mean as far as like a rural pool? No, you know, these are all, all these fingers are upslope from what the wetland is. And I was just wondering if there is any indication that the topography was controlling any small, channelized flow that isn't showing up on your white art data. Is this, is this a question about stream presence? Yeah. Yeah. You know, if, you know,

1220
01:45:29,980 --> 01:45:37,440
If, well, spring, very ephemeral runoff kind of streams that are feeding down through there.

1221
01:45:37,920 --> 01:45:40,380
Yeah, I think, but, you know, and you can probably speak to this.

1222
01:45:40,480 --> 01:45:42,220
And this may be a con-com question.

1223
01:45:42,500 --> 01:45:46,440
Yeah, well, it's your question, too, so we're happy to answer it.

1224
01:45:46,520 --> 01:45:52,280
But, you know, when it comes to perennial intermittent stream measurements and all those things,

1225
01:45:52,420 --> 01:45:56,680
I mean, an intermittent stream usually exists, what, in sort of a spring time season

1226
01:45:56,680 --> 01:46:01,920
and where it flows pretty consistently during those seasons, right?

1227
01:46:02,520 --> 01:46:06,200
When it typically rains a little bit more, water isn't going to the ground as much

1228
01:46:06,200 --> 01:46:10,580
because it's still falling out, things like that, these are more water happens

1229
01:46:10,580 --> 01:46:15,840
to just use this path of flow to get to where it needs to go, those wetland systems.

1230
01:46:16,080 --> 01:46:21,260
And it's not anything that I've seen in,

1231
01:46:24,660 --> 01:46:26,580
I don't know,

1232
01:46:26,580 --> 01:46:32,340
Yeah, there's water is flown down through wheat litter and so the only the only place where

1233
01:46:34,360 --> 01:46:35,600
So when we

1234
01:46:36,700 --> 01:46:41,180
It's sometimes not that helpful to talk well perennial streams maybe stand out

1235
01:46:42,620 --> 01:46:43,980
The obvious

1236
01:46:44,960 --> 01:46:46,640
differences that they exist

1237
01:46:47,460 --> 01:46:48,360
all the time

1238
01:46:50,060 --> 01:46:52,540
Other streams intermittent ephemeral

1239
01:46:53,500 --> 01:46:55,240
You know those are basically

1240
01:46:56,440 --> 01:47:04,120
different ways of describing something that has a flowed enough on the surface to create

1241
01:47:04,120 --> 01:47:13,500
a channel, which could, usually specifically excludes the concept of Rosen, like we were

1242
01:47:13,500 --> 01:47:18,040
talking about earlier, but essentially that's the same thing.

1243
01:47:19,720 --> 01:47:26,340
The large finger in the southwest corner, there's no channel there.

1244
01:47:28,320 --> 01:47:37,360
I was, we were down there trying to explain that I probably went up about as high as you

1245
01:47:37,360 --> 01:47:41,140
could bring that as far as soil as a vegetation.

1246
01:47:42,340 --> 01:47:55,180
The science of hydrology there would be very slight indications of surface saturation

1247
01:47:56,860 --> 01:47:59,940
probably during the limited spring season.

1248
01:48:01,720 --> 01:48:07,580
The other areas are there's no room for a stream really to exist in any of those areas.

1249
01:48:07,580 --> 01:48:17,880
is that that impact is essentially caused or that triangle which is constitutes the impact

1250
01:48:17,880 --> 01:48:27,180
area was essentially created by a couple of large trees which are blown down and taken

1251
01:48:27,180 --> 01:48:33,960
a lot of soil with them there by lowering the grade enough where that area is now wet.

1252
01:48:33,960 --> 01:48:43,300
But there is, yeah, in this area, which is the small, isolated area is by definition

1253
01:48:43,300 --> 01:48:45,200
of no flowing or out of that area.

1254
01:48:47,120 --> 01:48:56,960
There is a channel not anywhere near to our impact in that northern wetland, but it does

1255
01:48:56,960 --> 01:49:06,560
As it gets down on the steeper portion of that hill as it approaches the Oyster River

1256
01:49:06,560 --> 01:49:12,220
wetlands, that does, you know, create a channel in that area.

1257
01:49:12,620 --> 01:49:14,560
That's an inner mainstream impact there.

1258
01:49:16,060 --> 01:49:19,780
And of course, we're well, well away from that.

1259
01:49:26,110 --> 01:49:26,950
Any other questions?

1260
01:49:35,880 --> 01:49:36,060
Okay.

1261
01:49:41,760 --> 01:49:46,340
I just like to commend the applicant for the presentation on the stormwater.

1262
01:49:46,420 --> 01:49:48,300
I thought that was very coherently presented.

1263
01:49:48,520 --> 01:49:48,860
Thank you.

1264
01:49:49,520 --> 01:49:49,680
Yeah.

1265
01:49:49,900 --> 01:49:50,240
Thank you.

1266
01:49:50,900 --> 01:49:51,580
Totally agree.

1267
01:49:51,720 --> 01:49:52,860
That was excellent.

1268
01:49:53,160 --> 01:49:53,760
Thank you very much.

1269
01:49:54,960 --> 01:50:00,820
So, Mr. Chair, just I think it'd be helpful to talk a little bit about scheduling.

1270
01:50:00,820 --> 01:50:22,460
The, this is on the agenda for the conservation commission next Tuesday, but the commission has a very busy agenda, and I'm, they'll probably only have 20 minutes or so, so I think it's very unlikely they're going to make their recommendation for the conditional use, but hopefully that will happen at the October 26th meeting.

1271
01:50:23,380 --> 01:50:41,840
So the planning board's upcoming meetings are in two weeks on October 14th, October 28th and then you have one meeting in November and one meeting in December and I'm retiring November 30th, but if this is not completed before I go,

1272
01:50:43,420 --> 01:50:50,900
I will have a draft notice for the board and my successor so you'll be able to finalize details.

1273
01:50:54,640 --> 01:51:01,880
So, I'm not seeing any real significant obstacles, but there's a lot of small things.

1274
01:51:02,500 --> 01:51:09,340
And my sense is that it's probably useful to continue to the 14th, go over miscellaneous

1275
01:51:09,340 --> 01:51:17,540
issues, and then depending on the timing of the stormwater consultant and the traffic consultant,

1276
01:51:17,540 --> 01:51:19,780
and then you might be ready for final action,

1277
01:51:20,360 --> 01:51:24,900
maybe November, if not, hopefully December.

1278
01:51:28,100 --> 01:51:30,540
I'm hoping that we can start taking action

1279
01:51:30,540 --> 01:51:33,300
on some of the conditional uses by October 28th.

1280
01:51:37,900 --> 01:51:41,320
If we get all of them, you know, so you said,

1281
01:51:41,480 --> 01:51:44,440
so we have miscellaneous stuff and then traffic

1282
01:51:44,440 --> 01:51:46,060
and stormwater.

1283
01:51:48,800 --> 01:51:57,760
I think that's it, third-party reviews and after that we should be able to be

1284
01:51:57,760 --> 01:52:05,020
coming to a decision and if we're only waiting, I would say, let the

1285
01:52:05,020 --> 01:52:07,980
Council, the Vation Commission know that we really need their response on

1286
01:52:07,980 --> 01:52:11,640
October 20th. Oh, I think they know that, yeah, because

1287
01:52:13,660 --> 01:52:14,940
I'm not sure I'm going to

1288
01:52:14,940 --> 01:52:16,060
want a week form after that?

1289
01:52:16,060 --> 01:52:17,940
No, no, I think they understand that.

1290
01:52:18,380 --> 01:52:18,520
All right.

1291
01:52:20,820 --> 01:52:27,240
So do you want to continue to the, because recognizing there's

1292
01:52:27,240 --> 01:52:31,680
four more meetings for the rest of 2026, is it useful to

1293
01:52:31,680 --> 01:52:33,200
continue to the 14th?

1294
01:52:33,260 --> 01:52:36,160
I'd like to continue to the 14th just to keep them, you know,

1295
01:52:36,480 --> 01:52:40,200
we can tie up everything that we're not waiting on somebody

1296
01:52:40,200 --> 01:52:40,700
else for.

1297
01:52:41,340 --> 01:52:42,020
All right?

1298
01:52:42,120 --> 01:52:42,400
Sounds good.

1299
01:52:42,500 --> 01:52:43,720
That's the general idea.

1300
01:52:43,720 --> 01:52:52,580
a tile all that up so that as people come in and finish the reviews, we're ready to take them on immediately.

1301
01:52:53,460 --> 01:52:54,760
I think that makes sense.

1302
01:52:55,840 --> 01:52:56,760
Does that work for you?

1303
01:52:57,500 --> 01:53:00,960
Yeah, I was going to suggest that it's always better to be on the agenda than off, right?

1304
01:53:01,180 --> 01:53:03,480
If we fall off, then you guys just have a shorter meeting.

1305
01:53:04,660 --> 01:53:13,240
I do know we're also chasing down the exact process of presenting our water usage to town council as well.

1306
01:53:13,240 --> 01:53:15,980
Also, we'll be working towards that.

1307
01:53:16,100 --> 01:53:17,700
Hopefully we'll have some resolution on that.

1308
01:53:17,780 --> 01:53:19,520
I'm not sure of the timing on that yet,

1309
01:53:19,640 --> 01:53:23,000
but Keish Nordstrom and Bridget and Matt

1310
01:53:23,000 --> 01:53:25,420
will be reaching out to set that up.

1311
01:53:26,700 --> 01:53:30,740
But I believe Rich Rine also wanted to review

1312
01:53:30,740 --> 01:53:34,000
the water against their townwide model.

1313
01:53:34,260 --> 01:53:36,380
So that's another thing that's in play here

1314
01:53:36,380 --> 01:53:38,120
that we need to lock up.

1315
01:53:38,260 --> 01:53:40,080
But I don't know Michael if you've heard back from him

1316
01:53:40,080 --> 01:53:41,740
on that question, we just talked about it today.

1317
01:53:41,740 --> 01:53:48,500
So yeah, I mean that was one of the things that board asked that we looked at so we'll have to check with rich

1318
01:53:48,940 --> 01:53:49,960
Okay, that all is

1319
01:53:51,420 --> 01:53:53,420
At the end of technology drive

1320
01:53:54,100 --> 01:53:59,200
There was worked on a couple years ago, and was that for a new water pumping?

1321
01:54:00,560 --> 01:54:00,960
station

1322
01:54:02,780 --> 01:54:07,940
Or or you know, or was it sewer? It was either water or sewer and I'm just trying to I

1323
01:54:07,940 --> 01:54:12,360
I believe it was water, but Rich will be able to tell you that.

1324
01:54:12,820 --> 01:54:18,600
I know that because we have that fairly new main by, you know, water standards that

1325
01:54:18,600 --> 01:54:23,380
comes down through our property by easement, so it would make sense that, oh, there's

1326
01:54:23,380 --> 01:54:23,940
Rich right there.

1327
01:54:25,040 --> 01:54:25,840
Great timing.

1328
01:54:26,300 --> 01:54:26,880
Can you help, Rich?

1329
01:54:27,500 --> 01:54:30,560
Yeah, that was unrelated to this project.

1330
01:54:30,560 --> 01:54:37,600
That was the technology drive water pump station, and that had to do with the additional

1331
01:54:37,600 --> 01:54:44,540
capacity and the extension that we had to the lead circle for the MTBE funding that we received

1332
01:54:44,540 --> 01:54:51,420
from the DEES. But we are working with Underwood Engineers. We have a third-party consultant doing

1333
01:54:51,420 --> 01:54:57,100
the review of the Water Demand. We need to get some more information from Sean and his team to be

1334
01:54:57,100 --> 01:55:02,640
able to complete that. But it's moving along. And just real quick on the stormwater piece,

1335
01:55:02,640 --> 01:55:20,440
We believe we'll probably have draft comments from our third party reviewer at the end of next week, and we're expecting final review letter by the 5th of October, barring any unusual circumstances that we see in the stormward review.

1336
01:55:20,740 --> 01:55:26,680
And based on what we've seen so far, there probably will not be traffic engineering review.

1337
01:55:26,680 --> 01:55:31,580
the impact study that that's in the process of we're developing a scope in

1338
01:55:31,580 --> 01:55:37,000
fee proposal right now with Apex and and it will be presenting that to to

1339
01:55:37,000 --> 01:55:40,400
Sean and his team probably over the next year and probably early part middle

1340
01:55:40,400 --> 01:55:45,500
part of next week. All right so if that review comes back by the fifth we might

1341
01:55:45,500 --> 01:55:59,430
be able to have that on the night of 14th as well. Yeah all right you're right

1342
01:55:59,430 --> 01:56:06,130
So there will be certainly a fair amount more traffic on technology drive, including truck traffic.

1343
01:56:06,930 --> 01:56:23,970
Are there any concerns for use of technology drive by the 600 or so students at the cottages of their safety of any kind of improvements that might be needed along there for pedestrians and bicyclists?

1344
01:56:23,970 --> 01:56:29,430
Well, I'm more concerned about the parking that's on there being a problem to the pedestrians

1345
01:56:29,430 --> 01:56:30,730
and cyclists.

1346
01:56:31,050 --> 01:56:42,530
It's the combination of everything there is an issue, but I think the problems right now,

1347
01:56:43,210 --> 01:56:48,850
there is no, effectively there is no bike lane, there is no, there is kind of a walking lane

1348
01:56:48,850 --> 01:56:50,530
between the parked cars and the curb.

1349
01:56:55,000 --> 01:56:56,780
So Rich, are you still there?

1350
01:56:57,880 --> 01:57:01,920
I am, I was just going to say, as part of any project of this nature,

1351
01:57:01,920 --> 01:57:05,200
just like the Riverswood Project as I'm going right now,

1352
01:57:05,500 --> 01:57:10,320
we will have a robust traffic management plan as part of this,

1353
01:57:10,400 --> 01:57:14,040
and we'll ensure that there's safety for pedestrian cyclists,

1354
01:57:14,240 --> 01:57:19,140
other vehicles on the roadway, and we'll be working with the GC

1355
01:57:19,140 --> 01:57:22,140
and any of their folks during that whole process.

1356
01:57:22,480 --> 01:57:25,900
So I don't anticipate that as being a major hurdle to get over,

1357
01:57:26,220 --> 01:57:29,720
but we'll have to talk with the team, the RJ Kelly team,

1358
01:57:29,860 --> 01:57:31,040
to make sure that happens.

1359
01:57:31,820 --> 01:57:34,420
Well, I'm wondering not during a construction,

1360
01:57:34,620 --> 01:57:41,340
but permanently if there's any concern about a conflict there

1361
01:57:42,120 --> 01:57:46,400
with pedestrians and bicyclists on a technology drive,

1362
01:57:46,400 --> 01:57:49,100
What kind of space there is for them to use?

1363
01:57:50,820 --> 01:57:55,100
Yeah, I think that will all come out during the traffic impact study.

1364
01:57:55,260 --> 01:57:58,120
Third-party review, we'll have comments on that.

1365
01:57:58,920 --> 01:57:59,460
Thank you.

1366
01:58:00,780 --> 01:58:01,000
Question?

1367
01:58:01,860 --> 01:58:02,020
Mike.

1368
01:58:03,860 --> 01:58:12,400
Rich, in the traffic review from APEX, is it a normal thing or is it something that's within

1369
01:58:12,400 --> 01:58:17,920
the scope to actually look at the destiny and traffic along 121 tech drive as it exists

1370
01:58:17,920 --> 01:58:24,400
currently. Oh yeah they would do a pre-construction and post-construction review of that so that

1371
01:58:24,400 --> 01:58:31,400
wouldn't be an unusual occurrence and that's what we intend on scoping you know within that third

1372
01:58:31,400 --> 01:58:36,960
part of review. So there would be an idea in terms of actual body count going up and down tech drive

1373
01:58:36,960 --> 01:58:43,420
now. It's going to be, you know, we don't have, you know, a pedestrian counter out there to

1374
01:58:43,420 --> 01:58:49,500
determine exactly what we, what we have for numbers, but there will be trip generation numbers

1375
01:58:49,500 --> 01:58:54,440
likely that there'll be a loophole. I don't imagine it will be from ITE, but it'll be for some,

1376
01:58:54,440 --> 01:58:59,940
some source to understand what we have. I know there's a bus stop there that's used quite frequently,

1377
01:59:00,300 --> 01:59:05,180
so we'll have to take all that into account during our scope development with, with APEX.

1378
01:59:06,960 --> 01:59:13,000
Because to the issue of the pedestrian safety, it would seem like having some sort of empirical data might be helpful.

1379
01:59:13,480 --> 01:59:16,520
I don't believe we have any pedestrian data for that road.

1380
01:59:16,960 --> 01:59:23,420
No, but I don't think it takes a whole lot to get pedestrian data, either, for a few days worth of counts.

1381
01:59:24,660 --> 01:59:25,940
It's not a high tech.

1382
01:59:26,720 --> 01:59:32,600
One, the only difficulty I would see with that is that when I'm looking at that, there's no sidewalk there.

1383
01:59:32,600 --> 01:59:37,360
there's no managed way for pedestrians to get up and down that currently.

1384
01:59:38,220 --> 01:59:42,260
So even in the best case right now, I would say it's dangerous.

1385
01:59:42,680 --> 01:59:47,020
And as more traffic is there, it becomes more challenging,

1386
01:59:47,020 --> 01:59:54,560
I think, for pedestrians to navigate that in the small bike lane sort of walking area

1387
01:59:54,560 --> 01:59:58,300
that's there, not including the addition of the current park cars.

1388
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:05,460
It's a very wide shoulder there. You're right. And you know, and that's something that we'll take into account during the review.

1389
02:00:09,540 --> 02:00:33,020
And just to that point, like, typically in the traffic studies, I, I don't see mention of the pedestrians. I see a lot of vehicular analysis, but I don't typically see what's it look like for pedestrians navigating that same space. That's why I asked why not that could be something as part of it, because if you're concerned about. And I don't, maybe there's really no pedestrians walking up and down the

1390
02:00:33,020 --> 02:00:36,360
street. Maybe they come out and they go to their cars or something. That's it. I don't know. I'm not

1391
02:00:36,360 --> 02:00:41,560
sure that anybody knows it. It's very few. Where's the bus stop? Is it? That's not technical. It's

1392
02:00:41,560 --> 02:00:48,080
internal to the cottages. Right. No, it's down by the bus station. All right. The bus stop, there's

1393
02:00:48,080 --> 02:00:54,940
there are two three three internal to the cottages. Then there's one as you're leaving

1394
02:00:56,800 --> 02:01:02,980
tech drive just before you get to Main Street and the one that inbound that

1395
02:01:02,980 --> 02:01:07,180
matches that has floated up and down the hill a little bit but it used to last

1396
02:01:07,180 --> 02:01:11,120
year was at the top of the hill of tech drive as you're coming up and it

1397
02:01:11,120 --> 02:01:16,660
bubbles off but I don't that would be that one's a mess now and then they would

1398
02:01:16,660 --> 02:01:21,860
and you drop people off there who are trying to go to rear-view apartments back

1399
02:01:21,860 --> 02:01:27,660
on Main Street so they'd be walking down the hill to get back and now at this

1400
02:01:27,660 --> 02:01:32,060
point in time there's not even in the current conditions there's not no space

1401
02:01:32,060 --> 02:01:36,940
there for them to get off the bus walk down to Main Street because of the park

1402
02:01:36,940 --> 02:01:40,100
cars because of the park car yeah all

1403
02:01:45,540 --> 02:01:50,760
right so I you know when they were

1404
02:01:50,760 --> 02:01:55,380
talking about adding parking spaces on tech drive I didn't realize they're how

1405
02:01:55,380 --> 02:02:01,740
far down the hill, they were going to go with them, or I would have said something.

1406
02:02:04,980 --> 02:02:07,920
All right, but thank you.

1407
02:02:08,440 --> 02:02:08,920
Thank you.

1408
02:02:09,340 --> 02:02:11,160
We'll see you on the 14th.

1409
02:02:24,610 --> 02:02:31,730
And item 10 is the Capital Improvement Program, review of proposed 2027 and 2036 CIP with Todd

1410
02:02:31,730 --> 02:02:35,870
Selig, the town administrator and Gail Jablonsky, the business manager.

1411
02:02:59,880 --> 02:03:00,660
Good evening.

1412
02:03:01,180 --> 02:03:02,080
Great to see you all.

1413
02:03:02,360 --> 02:03:02,900
Good evening.

1414
02:03:04,040 --> 02:03:09,060
So, I am Todd Zellig, the administrator here in Durham, and I am accompanied in person

1415
02:03:09,060 --> 02:03:15,540
by Dave Ramanuel, and then virtually by Rich Reign and Guelder Blonski, who hopefully

1416
02:03:15,540 --> 02:03:18,980
Gwyneth can bring up on the screen in some way.

1417
02:03:20,560 --> 02:03:21,380
Okay, great, thank you.

1418
02:03:23,180 --> 02:03:26,600
So we are here tonight to talk about the Capital Improvements Program.

1419
02:03:27,260 --> 02:03:28,260
You all have a copy.

1420
02:03:30,280 --> 02:03:36,060
First, the capital improvements program is a big document, here's the hard copy version

1421
02:03:36,060 --> 02:03:38,760
of it here for the viewing public who might be interested.

1422
02:03:39,460 --> 02:03:44,940
We have a copy here at the business office and of course you have a copy of your packets.

1423
02:03:45,940 --> 02:03:51,460
These represent items submitted by departments, boards, committees and commissions for consideration

1424
02:03:51,460 --> 02:04:01,060
as part of the FY 2027 budget, if it's an item proposed for 27, or as part of our long-range plan.

1425
02:04:02,220 --> 02:04:13,140
Our town charter requires a look ahead of six years for capital projects, but we go one step beyond that and look out 10 years to get a better sense of our collective capital future.

1426
02:04:13,140 --> 02:04:20,100
The CIP includes items that have a value of $10,000 or more and a lifespan generally of

1427
02:04:20,100 --> 02:04:21,700
five or more years.

1428
02:04:22,620 --> 02:04:24,500
I want to note that this is a draft.

1429
02:04:24,880 --> 02:04:30,640
This is what Gail and I have received unedited from the departments and I'm in the process

1430
02:04:30,640 --> 02:04:34,360
with Gail of meeting with the departments to talk about all of these proposals.

1431
02:04:35,180 --> 02:04:42,420
And as part of the annual budget process, we'll be betting them and changing the order

1432
02:04:42,420 --> 02:04:50,400
as needed as part of the formal budget presentation, which will go to the council for the last four November

1433
02:04:50,400 --> 02:04:56,320
1st, and it will be presented to the council at the council meeting on November 2nd.

1434
02:04:57,860 --> 02:05:03,600
Let me just see, just want to lead you through some of the highlights here.

1435
02:05:04,660 --> 02:05:12,240
The first is if you look sort of at the first page, you'll see that Gail has very ingeniously

1436
02:05:12,240 --> 02:05:16,680
The line, the spreadsheet, and on the far left side, you'll see a page number.

1437
02:05:16,960 --> 02:05:21,060
So I'm looking under the fire department right now on page 19.

1438
02:05:21,740 --> 02:05:29,800
There's an item to replace the F, the 2007 Ford F354 Street truck for $300,000.

1439
02:05:30,260 --> 02:05:37,760
And just as an example, if you were to look at page 19, you'll see the specific sheet,

1440
02:05:37,760 --> 02:05:43,540
the Fire Department created, which provides a justification for the project, the description

1441
02:05:43,540 --> 02:05:49,000
of the project, the cost of the project, the purchase price of the project, in this case,

1442
02:05:49,220 --> 02:05:55,220
the request is for $300,000. There's next a financing section, which talks about how

1443
02:05:55,220 --> 02:06:00,880
that specific item would be funded. And in this particular case, the proposal from the

1444
02:06:00,880 --> 02:06:06,820
Fire Department is to bond the item and to share the cost of the bond $50, $50 with you

1445
02:06:06,820 --> 02:06:13,120
So specifically, during we cover $150,000, you and H recover $150,000.

1446
02:06:13,620 --> 02:06:17,740
And so on, that's how the project, the program is put together.

1447
02:06:18,740 --> 02:06:25,540
I try to give some thought each year about specific CIP items that you as a planning board

1448
02:06:25,540 --> 02:06:28,940
might be interested in, although we could talk about any and all of them if you want.

1449
02:06:29,540 --> 02:06:35,520
But the first that I think is particularly relevant is on page 30, replace in the 2015

1450
02:06:35,520 --> 02:06:44,260
Farrara Aerial Ladder Truck for $2.2 million in year 2028.

1451
02:06:45,400 --> 02:06:50,460
And that is a project again, if you look on page 30, that would be shared 50-50 with

1452
02:06:50,460 --> 02:06:56,380
UNH based on our municipal services agreement we have with UNH.

1453
02:06:56,900 --> 02:07:00,600
So the cost for each would be $1,100,000.

1454
02:07:01,600 --> 02:07:08,360
I thought maybe Dave Emanuel could just speak briefly to how a fire truck is valuable,

1455
02:07:08,880 --> 02:07:14,360
a ladder truck in particular for Durham, because on one hand it's necessary for you and

1456
02:07:14,360 --> 02:07:21,360
each to reach their top buildings, but in essence it is used more in fires for Durham

1457
02:07:21,360 --> 02:07:24,640
off campus buildings than it is on campus.

1458
02:07:25,120 --> 02:07:27,320
So could you just speak to that?

1459
02:07:31,060 --> 02:07:31,700
Thank you, Todd.

1460
02:07:31,700 --> 02:07:38,400
Dave Emmanuel, I serve as your fire chief, and our aerial apparatus,

1461
02:07:39,060 --> 02:07:46,040
when we look at how frequently we use it, it's over the past three years,

1462
02:07:46,420 --> 02:07:49,880
it goes around 60 times a year, it goes out to different buildings.

1463
02:07:50,480 --> 02:07:55,300
And because of the nature of the university's buildings,

1464
02:07:55,780 --> 02:07:58,260
we have 10 story buildings or up to 10 story buildings.

1465
02:07:58,600 --> 02:08:00,300
They're fully alarmed, they're fully sprinkled.

1466
02:08:00,300 --> 02:08:04,940
We generally aren't using a lot of truck on those buildings.

1467
02:08:04,940 --> 02:08:12,700
We're usually using one of residential structures that burn wood and have chimneys that we need to get to the roof for to work on a chimney fire.

1468
02:08:13,260 --> 02:08:17,280
So there's a need for this apparatus for both the town and the university.

1469
02:08:17,800 --> 02:08:19,160
I answer your question appropriately.

1470
02:08:19,520 --> 02:08:29,880
It does, and I think for the planning board perspective, sometimes I've observed the board getting questions about a project that is tall and residents will ask well.

1471
02:08:29,880 --> 02:08:33,700
Do we have the equipment to access that and this ladder truck is

1472
02:08:33,700 --> 02:08:36,480
the top of our 10 store buildings on campus, right?

1473
02:08:36,640 --> 02:08:42,620
Yes, so building less than 10 storeys, if we can place it appropriately, we should be good.

1474
02:08:43,440 --> 02:08:52,620
And so two of five storey building height in downtown, let's say, it would be able to reach the top of that building or whatever access you would need.

1475
02:08:53,160 --> 02:08:54,780
If it was say five storeys.

1476
02:08:55,080 --> 02:08:57,360
Yes, that's exactly right.

1477
02:08:58,160 --> 02:09:05,140
So, again, I'm going to fly and any time jump in or we can backtrack.

1478
02:09:05,360 --> 02:09:11,420
So, next I was going to jump ahead to page 58, which is, yes, yes.

1479
02:09:11,660 --> 02:09:13,420
All right, a new fire station.

1480
02:09:13,760 --> 02:09:14,420
Great, okay.

1481
02:09:15,780 --> 02:09:18,440
That's being budgeted now in 29.

1482
02:09:19,660 --> 02:09:24,900
Yes, the proposal from the fire department was to include it in fiscal year 2029.

1483
02:09:24,900 --> 02:09:28,640
Does that mean we have a site that we think it's going to go at?

1484
02:09:29,160 --> 02:09:35,740
So in the budget discussion with the fire department, which included UNH representatives,

1485
02:09:36,140 --> 02:09:39,260
we had a lengthy conversation around this proposal.

1486
02:09:39,840 --> 02:09:42,720
And the fire department is anxious to move ahead the project.

1487
02:09:43,380 --> 02:09:50,440
At the same time, in terms of our budgetary conversation, on the town side, I recognize Durham

1488
02:09:50,440 --> 02:09:55,600
has some significant fiscal constraints, and we're not really in a position to bring

1489
02:09:55,600 --> 02:10:01,620
on an additional $10 million in debt at this near-term period of time, nor is UNH.

1490
02:10:01,780 --> 02:10:03,260
The UNH people expressed to us.

1491
02:10:03,840 --> 02:10:10,260
So our consensus was that we should push this project out to about 2,031 at the earliest,

1492
02:10:10,860 --> 02:10:14,820
and the location we're targeting now is B-Lod.

1493
02:10:19,780 --> 02:10:20,420
Yes.

1494
02:10:20,420 --> 02:10:25,400
For the last ten years, we had been targeting waterworks road.

1495
02:10:25,800 --> 02:10:33,540
There was a pad there that was reserved for joint fire department, UNH Police Department,

1496
02:10:33,920 --> 02:10:35,520
EMS structure.

1497
02:10:36,260 --> 02:10:41,460
But we believe BILA is actually a better location.

1498
02:10:41,700 --> 02:10:45,900
We've always felt it was a better location and it appears to be open for conversation

1499
02:10:45,900 --> 02:10:46,740
at this time.

1500
02:10:46,740 --> 02:10:50,780
And UNH has outlined that as a potential site in its master plan.

1501
02:10:51,340 --> 02:10:58,600
So for planning purposes, I would likely propose moving this out to 2031 at the earliest.

1502
02:10:59,860 --> 02:11:01,660
Subject to further conversation.

1503
02:11:01,900 --> 02:11:05,040
And the next logical question is, is 20 million really the number?

1504
02:11:05,380 --> 02:11:11,980
And I can say that 20 million was the number like 15 years ago for that large facility.

1505
02:11:11,980 --> 02:11:18,440
We know that our initial thoughts of combining UNH police and Durham fire did not in practice

1506
02:11:18,440 --> 02:11:25,920
result in many economies of scale because particularly the police operation desires to

1507
02:11:25,920 --> 02:11:32,000
have everything cordoned off from fire, which did not really allow us to jointly use locker

1508
02:11:32,000 --> 02:11:36,020
rooms, shower rooms, conference rooms, things like that.

1509
02:11:36,020 --> 02:11:46,480
So we're really not seeing a benefit per se of a joint facility like that, but we also know the cost of fire departments have gone up quite a lot.

1510
02:11:46,740 --> 02:11:54,000
So $20 million is probably a good, very general planning number, but it is not a specific proposal right now.

1511
02:11:54,380 --> 02:12:02,720
And to the extent we can eliminate big pieces of equipment or consolidate a fewer bays we need,

1512
02:12:02,720 --> 02:12:06,860
which means the less expensive the project becomes.

1513
02:12:07,480 --> 02:12:08,740
So reducing our square footage.

1514
02:12:09,000 --> 02:12:12,400
Right. So one concept we talked a little bit about

1515
02:12:12,400 --> 02:12:15,100
during the budget discussion for this item was whether

1516
02:12:15,100 --> 02:12:20,040
it might be possible to combine two pieces of equipment

1517
02:12:20,040 --> 02:12:22,960
and to move away from a standalone aerial ladder

1518
02:12:22,960 --> 02:12:25,020
to what's called a quint.

1519
02:12:25,740 --> 02:12:26,120
Is that right?

1520
02:12:26,360 --> 02:12:26,960
That is correct.

1521
02:12:27,180 --> 02:12:31,740
Which is a multiple use vehicle that has a ladder

1522
02:12:31,740 --> 02:12:39,920
function as well. But I will note that we've been very disappointed in this 2015 vehicle.

1523
02:12:40,420 --> 02:12:49,360
It has been out of service for about a quarter of the time since we've had it. And typically

1524
02:12:49,360 --> 02:12:54,280
we like to keep these pieces of equipment for about 20 years. And as you'll note, this

1525
02:12:54,280 --> 02:12:56,260
is replacing it like in 12 years.

1526
02:12:56,640 --> 02:13:00,900
So we're having conversations around.

1527
02:13:05,550 --> 02:13:05,710
Good.

1528
02:13:06,030 --> 02:13:14,290
So page 58, vehicle replacement at the police department.

1529
02:13:14,650 --> 02:13:16,550
I won't get into this in any depth,

1530
02:13:16,690 --> 02:13:22,590
but basically we had set a goal about five or six years ago

1531
02:13:22,590 --> 02:13:31,010
So, to transition our 100% gasoline-powered fleet to a hybrid fleet at the police department,

1532
02:13:31,130 --> 02:13:37,330
and with the most recent vehicle, we've just completed that transition, which is positive

1533
02:13:37,330 --> 02:13:37,670
news.

1534
02:13:37,970 --> 02:13:43,170
So, now, all of the frontline vehicles that the police are driving are hybrid, and they've

1535
02:13:43,170 --> 02:13:48,770
had great luck in terms of maintenance and fuel economies and fuel savings with that hybrid

1536
02:13:48,770 --> 02:13:49,630
technology.

1537
02:13:49,630 --> 02:13:57,970
So that's positive news and we have a program where those police vehicles move from frontline

1538
02:13:57,970 --> 02:14:06,230
marked vehicles to command slash detective vehicles that are unmarked to eventually they're

1539
02:14:06,230 --> 02:14:11,330
downshifted to this lot that a public works and are used for the assessing vehicle or the

1540
02:14:11,330 --> 02:14:16,290
code enforcement vehicle or the vehicle the public works director drives around in and we try

1541
02:14:16,290 --> 02:14:18,150
to get the most out of those vehicles.

1542
02:14:18,450 --> 02:14:20,090
And typically when we're done with them,

1543
02:14:20,450 --> 02:14:23,070
they work like $250 and they go to a junkyard

1544
02:14:23,070 --> 02:14:27,650
because we've just used them as long as we can.

1545
02:14:28,650 --> 02:14:31,890
So this typically would be a year

1546
02:14:31,890 --> 02:14:35,150
where we would replace two vehicles rather than one,

1547
02:14:35,650 --> 02:14:37,250
but for cost savings reasons

1548
02:14:37,890 --> 02:14:41,550
and because we've had good performance from the hybrids,

1549
02:14:42,090 --> 02:14:44,290
the police department is comfortable recommending

1550
02:14:44,290 --> 02:14:49,850
just one vehicle for the 2027 which is positive.

1551
02:14:52,010 --> 02:14:54,790
Let me see moving ahead. Page 60

1552
02:14:54,790 --> 02:14:59,970
following is the courthouse old town hall renovation that's targeted for

1553
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:29,980
Number 2,030, and Rich Reign, if you are there in Cyberland, if you could please come up. As you know, we've just completed renovations at the Bickford Chessley Farmhouse at Wagon Hill Farm. That was one, so the first historic building on our list of renovations, repairs, refurbishment that was needed to maintain that building. The courthouse is next. And we had the same individual do a very preliminary review.

1554
02:15:29,980 --> 02:15:33,760
Did you have both big for Chesley and the courthouse about 10 years ago?

1555
02:15:34,380 --> 02:15:39,040
That was Aaron Sturgis and so Rich could you maybe just touch me on the plans for the courthouse?

1556
02:15:39,500 --> 02:15:47,320
Sure Todd, thank you so we're not asking for any funding in 2027 for the courthouse.

1557
02:15:47,520 --> 02:15:52,380
We do have some funding in place from previous years as Todd had mentioned.

1558
02:15:53,140 --> 02:15:59,640
Aaron Sturgis did a review and evaluation structurally as well as other components

1559
02:15:59,640 --> 02:16:06,400
to determine what would be needed for the BIC for Chesley House as well as the old courthouse.

1560
02:16:06,760 --> 02:16:12,500
I would call that kind of a 25,000-foot view of that assessment.

1561
02:16:13,000 --> 02:16:17,140
We then really got down into the details on the BIC for Chesley House,

1562
02:16:17,380 --> 02:16:22,840
and we're able to design the project that we just recently completed.

1563
02:16:23,480 --> 02:16:27,840
We haven't done that on the courthouse over the next year or so.

1564
02:16:27,840 --> 02:16:33,900
So we plan on getting into that and trying to get a better understanding of what the cost

1565
02:16:33,900 --> 02:16:38,740
would be today to maintain and rehabilitate that building.

1566
02:16:39,160 --> 02:16:45,020
Another important question of before we do that is what will be the long term use of

1567
02:16:45,020 --> 02:16:45,640
that building.

1568
02:16:46,060 --> 02:16:53,220
So we're in the process of trying to get an understanding of what components would be

1569
02:16:53,220 --> 02:17:00,540
necessarily be replaced, but long term uses is a question. We've done a fair amount of work on

1570
02:17:00,540 --> 02:17:07,600
that building over the last couple of years. We replaced the second floor HVAC system. We converted

1571
02:17:07,600 --> 02:17:16,660
the oil-fired boiler for the first floor to natural gas. We replaced the flooring in the multi-purpose

1572
02:17:16,660 --> 02:17:19,900
this room with a historically accurate oak flooring.

1573
02:17:20,140 --> 02:17:22,460
We did some work on some of the doors

1574
02:17:22,980 --> 02:17:26,460
and in our operational budget that we'll be presenting,

1575
02:17:26,820 --> 02:17:29,860
we do have some requests for continued work

1576
02:17:29,860 --> 02:17:32,440
on some of the other components, the ADA door.

1577
02:17:33,060 --> 02:17:34,880
We did some mortar work previously.

1578
02:17:35,340 --> 02:17:38,920
So this year, in 27, we're not requesting any funding.

1579
02:17:39,380 --> 02:17:42,080
We've pushed out a request to 2030.

1580
02:17:42,940 --> 02:17:44,860
That might be pushed out even further

1581
02:17:44,860 --> 02:17:49,280
as we evaluate the building and determine what the long-term use would be.

1582
02:17:50,160 --> 02:17:55,340
And I'll just note the Sturgis report had outlined some structural issues at the higher

1583
02:17:55,340 --> 02:18:00,740
parts of the building and we've had an engineer evaluated, he's determined that the volume is

1584
02:18:00,740 --> 02:18:07,160
building is safe, but as part of the HVAC work, we've also removed some very heavy HVAC ductwork

1585
02:18:07,160 --> 02:18:11,980
that was hanging on the beams and that weight was not intended and it was having an impact on the

1586
02:18:11,980 --> 02:18:17,560
building. So that that contributing problem has been eliminated, which is good news.

1587
02:18:19,160 --> 02:18:24,840
Next is page 67 the purchase of solar panels at the Packers Falls gravel pit.

1588
02:18:26,000 --> 02:18:32,900
This is an example of where we tried to use a town-owned asset. In this case, in the town of Leigh,

1589
02:18:32,900 --> 02:18:40,260
our Packers Falls gravel pit where we installed a 650 KW solar ray with revision energy that was

1590
02:18:40,260 --> 02:18:50,120
and also IGS solar. It's owned by IGS and Durham has a set rate for electricity that

1591
02:18:50,120 --> 02:18:55,980
we purchased from IGS, which is competitive, and we have the opportunity over a 20-year

1592
02:18:55,980 --> 02:19:02,460
period of time to purchase that array at a depreciated cost. The original idea was to

1593
02:19:02,460 --> 02:19:08,520
purchase that array at some point in the future, but what we found is that all of the arrays

1594
02:19:08,520 --> 02:19:14,920
that Durham has on our buildings or at this pit have experienced pretty significant problems

1595
02:19:14,920 --> 02:19:23,100
over time, that from my perspective, fortunately, the owner had to deal with rather than us.

1596
02:19:23,780 --> 02:19:29,100
And so I'm really not particularly enthusiastic about our moving on these and buying this

1597
02:19:29,100 --> 02:19:36,060
array, because we're just, you know, public works is so amazing, yet none of us are really

1598
02:19:36,060 --> 02:19:38,720
reversed in solar power management and maintenance,

1599
02:19:39,020 --> 02:19:41,100
and we don't, we're not staff for it either.

1600
02:19:41,820 --> 02:19:44,460
So at least for now, this is just a placeholder

1601
02:19:44,460 --> 02:19:46,300
in case at some point in the future,

1602
02:19:46,320 --> 02:19:47,940
it makes sense to move on it

1603
02:19:47,940 --> 02:19:51,760
and purchase the property or the panels

1604
02:19:51,760 --> 02:19:54,000
at a then depreciated rate.

1605
02:19:54,580 --> 02:19:58,280
But at least at this time, my working thinking

1606
02:19:58,280 --> 02:20:02,720
is that we would not, we just simply roll along every year.

1607
02:20:03,220 --> 02:20:06,300
Can I just ask just on that because that's very interesting.

1608
02:20:06,640 --> 02:20:11,740
So those are 2016, so I guess that's 10-year-old technology that's probably changed quite a bit.

1609
02:20:12,120 --> 02:20:19,220
And I guess when they fix that, do they replace it with the sort of the similar category of panel that was there before?

1610
02:20:19,500 --> 02:20:22,480
Do they, when they swap that out, do they kind of do an upgrade on that?

1611
02:20:22,700 --> 02:20:28,240
And we get kind of get the benefit of that without having to sort of pay for all that, or do we know?

1612
02:20:28,240 --> 02:20:49,140
I honestly don't know because we let the energy goes in to do the service for IGS solar and public works that's the men but they're not building us so our concern is is it producing power that then we're purchasing from them right.

1613
02:20:49,500 --> 02:20:50,840
I don't have an answer.

1614
02:20:52,790 --> 02:21:00,950
I think I would say on that if I can is most of times it's not the panel that fails it's

1615
02:21:00,950 --> 02:21:09,870
a very expensive to replace and they replaced one of those inverters at the Lee gravel pit

1616
02:21:09,870 --> 02:21:13,550
you know over the last you know five six years that I've been here.

1617
02:21:13,950 --> 02:21:22,050
And for example at a certain point time revision owned the panels on the library we subsequently

1618
02:21:22,050 --> 02:21:29,670
did buy those out. So Durham owns those now. But when revision did own the panels, that

1619
02:21:29,670 --> 02:21:34,030
was the year we had like squirrel topia. And there was this explosion of squirrels.

1620
02:21:34,470 --> 02:21:38,210
You may remember like there were dead squirrels on the road everywhere. And the squirrels

1621
02:21:38,210 --> 02:21:44,170
got into the wiring and the library and just really caused significant problems. And that was

1622
02:21:44,170 --> 02:21:50,970
all fully covered by revision at their cost, and they put up squirrel protection. So anyway,

1623
02:21:51,590 --> 02:21:57,770
just an example. All right, moving ahead to page 77, the road program. And Rich, would

1624
02:21:57,770 --> 02:22:01,830
you mind just giving an overview of the road program, please? Because it affects everybody.

1625
02:22:02,270 --> 02:22:08,250
And as you're looking at subdivisions and project zoning, it's important for you to have a sense

1626
02:22:08,250 --> 02:22:10,310
of how we deal with roads, I think.

1627
02:22:10,710 --> 02:22:13,930
Right, so we utilize, if you don't mind,

1628
02:22:14,130 --> 02:22:15,550
can I just share a quick slide?

1629
02:22:15,930 --> 02:22:18,530
It'll be easier to talk to this, if that's okay.

1630
02:22:18,670 --> 02:22:19,010
No problem.

1631
02:22:19,730 --> 02:22:22,710
Okay, let me see if I can do this real quick.

1632
02:22:35,640 --> 02:22:37,440
Let me know when you see that.

1633
02:22:38,620 --> 02:22:39,040
You're on.

1634
02:22:39,840 --> 02:22:40,400
Okay, great.

1635
02:22:41,300 --> 02:22:42,760
Can you zoom in on it a little more?

1636
02:22:44,160 --> 02:22:46,000
Yeah, I can do that.

1637
02:22:46,200 --> 02:22:46,860
Give me one sec.

1638
02:22:49,610 --> 02:22:50,230
How's that?

1639
02:22:52,270 --> 02:22:54,590
you know, or maybe go into presentation mode.

1640
02:22:54,890 --> 02:22:55,810
Yeah, good presentation.

1641
02:22:55,930 --> 02:22:57,190
Oh, okay, sorry about that.

1642
02:22:57,210 --> 02:22:58,250
Go with that little, yeah.

1643
02:23:03,290 --> 02:23:03,810
There we go.

1644
02:23:04,070 --> 02:23:04,670
Yeah, it's better.

1645
02:23:04,810 --> 02:23:05,630
That easier to say?

1646
02:23:05,850 --> 02:23:06,010
Yeah.

1647
02:23:06,790 --> 02:23:07,830
Okay, all right, great.

1648
02:23:08,670 --> 02:23:13,570
So, I've mentioned before, we utilize a software program

1649
02:23:14,970 --> 02:23:17,130
called CityLogix, Payment Management System,

1650
02:23:17,610 --> 02:23:21,630
and that allows us to really manage our full 59, 60 miles

1651
02:23:21,630 --> 02:23:25,250
of roadway network in a very methodical way,

1652
02:23:25,990 --> 02:23:32,890
Along with, you know, kind of ordination with other utility replacement, water mains, sewer lines, gas lines, if necessary.

1653
02:23:33,950 --> 02:23:38,690
And that gives us the, oh, I just went, hold on, there we go.

1654
02:23:39,210 --> 02:23:41,310
That allows us to coordinate all that.

1655
02:23:41,550 --> 02:23:47,090
What we tried to do, we just recently did a full assessment and evaluation of our road network.

1656
02:23:47,690 --> 02:23:50,990
And our goal is to try to keep that at an ADPCI.

1657
02:23:50,990 --> 02:23:57,450
that 80 PCI gives us the ability to manage that and hit some of these deteriorated roads

1658
02:23:57,450 --> 02:24:02,870
before they come very expensive to maintain and rehabilitate.

1659
02:24:03,650 --> 02:24:09,430
So I'm happy to say that our PCI is hovering right about 80, it's just under 80, the evaluation

1660
02:24:09,430 --> 02:24:16,610
is for this last summer, late summer early fall is still underway, they're doing the post-processing

1661
02:24:16,610 --> 02:24:19,690
work on that, we hope to get that back over the next couple weeks.

1662
02:24:19,690 --> 02:24:23,510
but we have been holding our own right around that ADPCI.

1663
02:24:24,510 --> 02:24:29,530
This, what we've observed lately is that some of these roads

1664
02:24:29,530 --> 02:24:32,950
that were treated with a drag shim,

1665
02:24:33,090 --> 02:24:35,970
which is a very thin overlay of pavement

1666
02:24:35,970 --> 02:24:39,190
about even less than a half an inch at times

1667
02:24:39,190 --> 02:24:42,110
based on the rutting of the roadway.

1668
02:24:42,470 --> 02:24:46,430
We're seeing some accelerated deterioration of those roads

1669
02:24:46,430 --> 02:24:48,810
and some of those roads are some of the major collectors

1670
02:24:48,810 --> 02:24:52,230
that we have in town, Durham Point Road, Mill Road,

1671
02:24:52,730 --> 02:24:55,290
Bennett Road, and Packers Falls Road.

1672
02:24:55,890 --> 02:24:59,770
So we developed this five-year action plan on our roadways

1673
02:24:59,770 --> 02:25:03,710
to address that, but also address some of these residential roads.

1674
02:25:03,910 --> 02:25:07,410
So you'll see in the book a very detailed five-year plan

1675
02:25:07,410 --> 02:25:10,570
for the road program.

1676
02:25:10,830 --> 02:25:14,630
This upcoming year, we hope to be able to,

1677
02:25:14,630 --> 02:25:24,950
We've requested about $734,000, which is a little more than we typically request, but really that's the that's the figure somewhere between

1678
02:25:25,900 --> 02:25:32,650
$650,000 that will need to invest in the roads to maintain that VVPCI.

1679
02:25:33,330 --> 02:25:36,910
The program for this year will consist of

1680
02:25:36,910 --> 02:25:42,270
Durham Point Road, both East and West, and you can see that in this figure right here

1681
02:25:42,270 --> 02:25:47,570
where my cursor is, those two roads, and it will be an inch and a quarter, so basically

1682
02:25:47,570 --> 02:25:50,070
a shin and overlay on that roadway.

1683
02:25:50,250 --> 02:25:56,590
And Rich, can I just clarify, because this is a question I had, when Rich says East and

1684
02:25:56,590 --> 02:25:58,530
West, he means the whole road.

1685
02:25:58,670 --> 02:26:01,690
There's not an additional center section that's not being done.

1686
02:26:01,890 --> 02:26:02,550
It's the whole road.

1687
02:26:03,190 --> 02:26:03,690
That's right.

1688
02:26:04,470 --> 02:26:07,210
and then it will also include Bay Road.

1689
02:26:07,410 --> 02:26:11,250
That's in a little bit better condition than Durham Point Road,

1690
02:26:11,350 --> 02:26:14,830
but it also is showing some pretty significant signs

1691
02:26:14,830 --> 02:26:16,170
of deterioration.

1692
02:26:16,830 --> 02:26:18,870
Ideally, we would like to go in there.

1693
02:26:19,310 --> 02:26:21,970
It's the base of the roadway is really what fails.

1694
02:26:22,570 --> 02:26:24,310
First, and then the rest of the road

1695
02:26:24,690 --> 02:26:26,750
could show signs of distresses.

1696
02:26:27,250 --> 02:26:30,830
We would love to go in there and box out

1697
02:26:30,830 --> 02:26:36,650
that entire roadway, 24 inches, put good gravels in there, and build it from the bottom up.

1698
02:26:37,110 --> 02:26:40,750
But it just costs prohibitive to do something like that.

1699
02:26:41,250 --> 02:26:47,490
So this treatment will give us that, you know, five to seven, nine years worth of, you

1700
02:26:47,850 --> 02:26:54,970
know, good drivability of the roadway while we continue to look for grant money to do this

1701
02:26:54,970 --> 02:27:01,390
in another fashion, possibly a reclaim of the roadway or maybe a cold-in-place recycling.

1702
02:27:02,190 --> 02:27:05,830
So I'll stop there for a second to see if there's any questions on that.

1703
02:27:09,040 --> 02:27:15,400
Rich, could you just touch on the efforts we've made to bring in federal grant money,

1704
02:27:15,580 --> 02:27:20,660
which have not been successful and what that grant money would have allowed that we're

1705
02:27:20,660 --> 02:27:22,940
not planning to do at this point in time?

1706
02:27:23,120 --> 02:27:24,960
Yeah, that's a great comment.

1707
02:27:24,960 --> 02:27:38,660
And so what we've tried to do, we've looked at this in a way that would allow us to really build this road in a complete streets fashion, very similar to Madbury Road, but a different application since it is a different type of roadway.

1708
02:27:39,300 --> 02:27:46,460
We've applied for a couple large grants. The most recent one was the Safe Streets and Roads for All.

1709
02:27:46,460 --> 02:27:52,260
and that is a highly competitive grant round.

1710
02:27:52,420 --> 02:27:54,940
It's a federal grant, and we put together

1711
02:27:54,940 --> 02:27:57,160
what we thought was a very solid package.

1712
02:27:57,380 --> 02:28:00,000
It would have allowed us to do safety improvements

1713
02:28:00,000 --> 02:28:03,660
on the roadway, cycling, improvements for cyclists

1714
02:28:03,660 --> 02:28:06,520
on that roadway, maybe some geometric changes

1715
02:28:06,520 --> 02:28:10,080
in the road, and unfortunately we were unsuccessful

1716
02:28:10,080 --> 02:28:12,560
to getting any grants for that.

1717
02:28:13,280 --> 02:28:15,820
There's some other grants that we applied for smaller,

1718
02:28:15,820 --> 02:28:21,120
but also we're not successful so we're going to continue to do that over the next

1719
02:28:21,120 --> 02:28:25,880
half dozen years and try to get full funding for some of these improvements that I

1720
02:28:25,880 --> 02:28:30,000
think we would all like to make on that roadway but at this point you know we're

1721
02:28:30,000 --> 02:28:35,740
trying to balance you know the road going into a complete failure mode as well as

1722
02:28:35,740 --> 02:28:40,640
those other roads that I mentioned and and being able to to maintain it at the

1723
02:28:40,640 --> 02:28:42,800
level that we think it's necessary.

1724
02:28:44,500 --> 02:28:52,820
Which do anticipate any changes to the scenic road other than resurfacing that people

1725
02:28:52,820 --> 02:28:54,660
should be aware of the concern about?

1726
02:28:55,840 --> 02:29:00,460
No, we'll be looking at the main concentration when we're doing a shaman overlay.

1727
02:29:00,680 --> 02:29:06,720
There'll be some shoulder gravel work that we do, maybe some other areas that we might be

1728
02:29:06,720 --> 02:29:09,680
We're looking at some failing culverts on the roadway.

1729
02:29:09,860 --> 02:29:16,100
There's some what we call CMP or corrugated metal culverts that may have some significant

1730
02:29:16,100 --> 02:29:18,300
kind of deterioration in their inverts.

1731
02:29:18,380 --> 02:29:22,620
So we wouldn't want to put money into the roadway without addressing some of those.

1732
02:29:22,620 --> 02:29:24,760
So we have a sense of which ones are failing.

1733
02:29:25,140 --> 02:29:29,080
So we may do that with our own internal forces to replace those.

1734
02:29:29,460 --> 02:29:33,720
But there won't be any significant changes, you know, as far as the scenic road goes.

1735
02:29:33,720 --> 02:29:36,700
So I'll stop sharing it.

1736
02:29:38,320 --> 02:29:43,400
And Rich, I was hopeful in terms of there are a lot of projects for public works.

1737
02:29:43,600 --> 02:29:47,660
Public works is the main part of the CIP project or plan.

1738
02:29:48,320 --> 02:29:54,700
But Rich, I was hoping as part of what you might talk about, you could touch upon the water

1739
02:29:54,700 --> 02:29:59,280
system improvements in wastewater facilities plan, but I didn't know if there are other

1740
02:29:59,280 --> 02:29:59,980
Prud-

1741
02:30:00,000 --> 02:30:02,780
Judge Exx that you think would be helpful for the planning board to hear about.

1742
02:30:12,550 --> 02:30:38,850
Did you hear that, Rich? Yeah, I did. I was just waiting. Was there anything else that we wanted to talk about before I get into that? No, okay. No. No. Okay. All right. So, um, so we have, um, we have a, a water main replacement program that we started. It was about four or five years ago that, um, addresses the 209 miles of, of water main that we have. Um, when we look at the miles or of water

1743
02:30:38,850 --> 02:30:47,010
main and the condition, the type of material and the age, you know, we look at break history

1744
02:30:47,010 --> 02:30:52,110
and we want to avoid breaks whenever possible, especially on these newly paved roadways.

1745
02:30:52,670 --> 02:31:00,050
So what we try to do is combine our roadway work with utility work and in this case that

1746
02:31:00,050 --> 02:31:01,850
utility work is water main.

1747
02:31:02,050 --> 02:31:07,110
We also look at sewer, you know, mains at the same time and work with the gas companies.

1748
02:31:07,110 --> 02:31:10,710
but we accumulate money over a period of time,

1749
02:31:10,710 --> 02:31:14,910
typically this $75,000, we should be in a lot of speed

1750
02:31:14,910 --> 02:31:17,450
when we look at all those components of a water main

1751
02:31:17,450 --> 02:31:21,030
and what a replacement plan should be based

1752
02:31:21,030 --> 02:31:22,550
on age of a water main.

1753
02:31:23,110 --> 02:31:26,750
We should be putting much more in than $75,000,

1754
02:31:26,770 --> 02:31:28,510
hundreds of thousands of dollars into that,

1755
02:31:28,610 --> 02:31:30,450
but it's unrealistic to do that.

1756
02:31:30,610 --> 02:31:34,410
So what we do is accumulate money over a period of time

1757
02:31:34,410 --> 02:31:41,210
and we target a specific roadway when we have enough of that funding, we then go ahead

1758
02:31:41,210 --> 02:31:46,730
and do the water main typically the year before, do a temporary patch, and then come back the

1759
02:31:46,730 --> 02:31:53,830
next year with the road program and reclaim and pave that roadway typically. So in this case,

1760
02:31:54,110 --> 02:32:02,030
on the town water system improvements for $75,000, that will be used with, so the FY27 funding will

1761
02:32:02,030 --> 02:32:09,710
contribute toward a $200,000 project that we anticipate will be replacing the cast iron

1762
02:32:09,710 --> 02:32:16,070
water main on the first section of Davis Avenue. If you look down where the Edgewood and Davis

1763
02:32:16,070 --> 02:32:21,230
intersection is and you glance toward your right as you're going toward campus, you'll see at that

1764
02:32:21,230 --> 02:32:27,550
early section there's three pavement patches there and those three pavement patches are there

1765
02:32:27,550 --> 02:32:31,230
because we had three water mean breaks that needed to be repaired.

1766
02:32:32,050 --> 02:32:38,170
So that will be our concentration in 2030 road program will be Davis Avenue

1767
02:32:38,170 --> 02:32:44,170
and we'll be doing the water main just before that work and conjunction with that project.

1768
02:32:45,510 --> 02:32:48,030
Any questions on water mean?

1769
02:32:50,920 --> 02:32:52,740
And that just has one question.

1770
02:32:53,080 --> 02:32:56,240
I think you sort of touched on it.

1771
02:32:56,240 --> 02:33:01,760
which is the public works department as a large portion of the budget.

1772
02:33:02,540 --> 02:33:06,540
And when we think about planning, it would seem that we would want to try to consolidate.

1773
02:33:07,820 --> 02:33:14,340
Or use these resources to the maximum amount that we could, which I guess when I think about that,

1774
02:33:14,500 --> 02:33:22,480
I would say that you would want to almost start to try as best as you can to consolidate density where you have these services.

1775
02:33:22,480 --> 02:33:28,920
is where you get the biggest bank for your buck when you implement an updated road or updated fix.

1776
02:33:29,720 --> 02:33:34,880
In other words, it seems obvious that when you update a rural road, a few people benefit from that.

1777
02:33:34,940 --> 02:33:40,340
But if you have greater density and you update a road that's in a dense area, you get a bigger bank for the buck.

1778
02:33:40,680 --> 02:33:45,080
So I guess from a planning perspective, it would seem that we would want to try, I think,

1779
02:33:45,080 --> 02:33:51,760
to consolidate an increased density where we have these services and where you can get a two for one or

1780
02:33:51,760 --> 02:33:59,180
a three-for-one benefit versus a smaller benefit down on the rural area.

1781
02:33:59,940 --> 02:34:03,660
I don't know if there are any thoughts about that, but in terms of the capital outlay

1782
02:34:03,660 --> 02:34:08,600
for these things, it would seem that the denser we go in certain areas, the bigger bang

1783
02:34:08,600 --> 02:34:09,340
we get for the buck.

1784
02:34:10,900 --> 02:34:13,460
That maybe is both a question and a statement, I think.

1785
02:34:15,120 --> 02:34:16,040
I would agree.

1786
02:34:16,880 --> 02:34:20,940
I mean, if you look, a good example would be comparing the state of New Hampshire to the

1787
02:34:20,940 --> 02:34:27,680
state of Maine. Maine is a significantly larger state in terms of geographic area, and

1788
02:34:27,680 --> 02:34:33,880
that means they have huge networks of roadways to very small populated areas that they have

1789
02:34:33,880 --> 02:34:40,180
to maintain at significant cost. Where New Hampshire is a smaller geographic area and we can

1790
02:34:40,180 --> 02:34:44,440
put that we have better economies of scale in terms of those investments. But what I can

1791
02:34:44,440 --> 02:34:50,780
say is we don't have any money targeted toward building new roads in Durham. We're simply

1792
02:34:50,780 --> 02:34:57,420
maintaining what we have. And I don't know, Rich, like, is there, if a road is more rural,

1793
02:34:57,880 --> 02:35:06,280
are you likely to see less wear and tear on it and therefore a need to get in and repair it?

1794
02:35:06,780 --> 02:35:12,160
Fewer times over time than a more frequently traveled road or how's that work?

1795
02:35:12,900 --> 02:35:19,360
Yeah, definitely. I think, you know, certainly, you know, average daily traffic on a roadways

1796
02:35:19,360 --> 02:35:25,920
and the type of traffic plays a big part in the degradation of that roadway and I touched

1797
02:35:25,920 --> 02:35:32,820
on the city logic software platform that we use and developing a PCI or a pavement condition

1798
02:35:32,820 --> 02:35:41,480
index, but from there we also have another kind of data point that comes out of that and it's called

1799
02:35:41,480 --> 02:35:47,720
a benefit value index and it's exactly what you just said, Peyton, where we look at average daily

1800
02:35:47,720 --> 02:35:53,580
traffic, cost of repair, longevity of the repair, all these different components go into

1801
02:35:53,580 --> 02:36:00,440
this algorithm that then allows us to prioritize some of these some of these on roadways and

1802
02:36:00,440 --> 02:36:07,140
it will come out with a plan that is recommended and we then look at that and we use other engineering

1803
02:36:07,140 --> 02:36:13,880
judgment and timing to say okay maybe it came out with this roadway but we also have a water

1804
02:36:13,880 --> 02:36:17,960
replacement or a sewer replacement or we know the gas company wants to come in there

1805
02:36:17,960 --> 02:36:24,200
so we would defer that so there is there is a lot of the additional analysis that goes into it.

1806
02:36:24,320 --> 02:36:29,960
It's not just PCI it's the BVI benefit value index that helps drive some of the decisions

1807
02:36:29,960 --> 02:36:36,840
that we make. I think sidewalks is more where we might see that stretch and the riverwoods is a

1808
02:36:36,840 --> 02:36:42,660
good example where our sidewalk previously did not go out as far as riverwoods. It was on the

1809
02:36:42,660 --> 02:36:45,280
the Durham side of the route for overpass.

1810
02:36:46,740 --> 02:36:49,240
And once Riverwoods was constructed,

1811
02:36:49,580 --> 02:36:51,480
the residents there said, well, we want a sidewalk.

1812
02:36:52,120 --> 02:36:53,880
So Durham's response is, well, Riverwoods,

1813
02:36:53,920 --> 02:36:56,520
if you want the sidewalk, you build the sidewalk.

1814
02:36:56,940 --> 02:36:58,320
So they paid to build the sidewalk,

1815
02:36:58,640 --> 02:37:00,180
but we accepted the sidewalk.

1816
02:37:00,420 --> 02:37:03,560
And now, over time, we're going to have to spend text

1817
02:37:03,560 --> 02:37:04,880
others to maintain that sidewalk.

1818
02:37:05,460 --> 02:37:10,500
So it does make sense to consolidate development

1819
02:37:10,500 --> 02:37:13,280
in areas where there are already sidewalks,

1820
02:37:13,460 --> 02:37:15,540
so we don't have to extend infrastructure

1821
02:37:15,540 --> 02:37:18,020
and maintain it and have additional staff

1822
02:37:18,020 --> 02:37:19,120
to take care of it, et cetera.

1823
02:37:20,500 --> 02:37:23,120
Water and sewer lines might be the same scenario.

1824
02:37:23,840 --> 02:37:25,340
It's best to keep it compact,

1825
02:37:25,600 --> 02:37:28,220
rather than long lines going out to very rural areas.

1826
02:37:29,020 --> 02:37:30,620
Yeah, Michael.

1827
02:37:30,960 --> 02:37:32,400
So while we have Rich here,

1828
02:37:33,760 --> 02:37:35,700
I don't know if you were watching the earlier segment

1829
02:37:35,700 --> 02:37:37,280
of the planning board meeting or not,

1830
02:37:37,600 --> 02:37:38,040
before this.

1831
02:37:38,040 --> 02:37:41,400
Yes. Okay. So we're talking about Tech Drive. Yes.

1832
02:37:41,740 --> 02:37:48,280
Do you have a schedule that indicates when Tech Drive might be on the list of things to

1833
02:37:49,200 --> 02:37:58,480
read? We do. We do. It's not in the five year plan, but we have mentioned to, you know,

1834
02:37:58,480 --> 02:38:08,400
two Sean and the group at RJ Kelly that predominantly the where and impact of the roadway currently

1835
02:38:08,400 --> 02:38:16,340
is with the 90 tractor trailers that that road sees each day. So we are going to have further

1836
02:38:16,340 --> 02:38:25,840
discussions with them about potential exactions on that roadway to allow for the condition to be

1837
02:38:25,840 --> 02:38:31,660
We improved after their major construction takes place because the truck traffic on that

1838
02:38:31,660 --> 02:38:34,220
roadway is only going to increase over time.

1839
02:38:34,840 --> 02:38:38,500
So we want to make sure that we have that discussion early on.

1840
02:38:38,960 --> 02:38:43,060
And the same thing goes with the sidewalk that you guys keyed in on earlier.

1841
02:38:43,640 --> 02:38:50,190
We have those same concerns and that's why we are including that in the scope that we'll

1842
02:38:50,190 --> 02:38:57,190
be working with APEX on to look at the traffic impact study that was done in the third-party

1843
02:38:57,190 --> 02:38:57,610
review.

1844
02:38:57,910 --> 02:38:59,490
So, I think those are all things.

1845
02:38:59,950 --> 02:39:03,010
We don't have tech drive in the five-year action plans.

1846
02:39:03,010 --> 02:39:11,370
You won't see that come through this existing capital plan, but it will need to be addressed

1847
02:39:11,370 --> 02:39:17,870
and we hope that we can work with RJ Kelly to come up with a reasonable approach on that.

1848
02:39:18,470 --> 02:39:18,910
Thank you.

1849
02:39:18,910 --> 02:39:23,370
So one more question also, because the other thing is that, as you know, we're starting

1850
02:39:23,370 --> 02:39:29,470
to look at the issue of zoning in the around the central business district area, in the

1851
02:39:29,470 --> 02:39:30,210
built-up areas.

1852
02:39:30,630 --> 02:39:33,990
And a question come up in an earlier planning board meeting, at least two or three, maybe

1853
02:39:33,990 --> 02:39:42,090
four meetings ago, about what studies exist and part of my ignorance on water and wastewater

1854
02:39:42,090 --> 02:39:44,590
capacities in those areas.

1855
02:39:44,590 --> 02:39:48,610
is so as we're starting to think about what might happen to those in terms of

1856
02:39:48,610 --> 02:39:53,470
densities and stuff, are we facing limitations or are we all good to go and

1857
02:39:53,470 --> 02:39:57,010
sort of what what what's the knowledge base that exists that can be shared with

1858
02:39:57,010 --> 02:40:01,070
the planning board? Yeah it's a great question Michael and I think the other thing

1859
02:40:01,070 --> 02:40:07,910
that we need to think about is not only capacity to collect and treat waste water

1860
02:40:07,910 --> 02:40:13,750
or distribute up and treat and distribute water but it's a condition of those

1861
02:40:13,750 --> 02:40:22,830
that infrastructure that's there now, and can it support additional capacity either collection or distribution.

1862
02:40:23,450 --> 02:40:25,710
And the same thing goes with stormwater.

1863
02:40:25,870 --> 02:40:35,030
We certainly in the downtown area, we do have some constraints on stormwater in our closed training system.

1864
02:40:35,730 --> 02:40:39,970
And we've addressed a bunch of that with the Madbury Road Project.

1865
02:40:39,970 --> 02:40:55,110
But on the other side, basically the Petty Brook side where the Petty Brook parking lot is and the collection system on that side that flows toward Petty Brook, that still has some some challenges as far as available capacity.

1866
02:40:55,770 --> 02:40:58,950
In fact, it doesn't have available capacity at this point.

1867
02:40:58,950 --> 02:41:04,150
It surges in 10-year storms and floods.

1868
02:41:04,690 --> 02:41:09,850
It just doesn't have the capacity, the pipe capacity for additional flow.

1869
02:41:10,690 --> 02:41:20,770
So it's not only just overall the capacity to distribute or collect, but it's also conditioned.

1870
02:41:21,410 --> 02:41:24,030
We do have some pretty good sense.

1871
02:41:24,030 --> 02:41:32,650
We had a grant that we received from the state $100,000 to do a west end sewer study to

1872
02:41:32,650 --> 02:41:41,270
determine what type of capacity constraints do we have from the hedge and this technology

1873
02:41:41,270 --> 02:41:43,170
drive development.

1874
02:41:43,770 --> 02:41:50,090
And we know that there are some choke points leading to the interceptors.

1875
02:41:50,090 --> 02:41:52,270
So that's the College Book Interceptor.

1876
02:41:52,350 --> 02:41:57,690
There's a very small pipe that is actually under the fire department, underneath the rail

1877
02:41:57,690 --> 02:42:00,170
road and under the building itself.

1878
02:42:00,950 --> 02:42:05,150
So that's something that we have to take into account as we look at, you know, taking

1879
02:42:05,150 --> 02:42:11,670
on more flow and what the, you know, what type of upgrades might be necessary from, you know,

1880
02:42:11,750 --> 02:42:13,630
the developer over those applicants are.

1881
02:42:14,150 --> 02:42:19,810
So all those things I come into play as we do, I get a review of a project that might come

1882
02:42:19,810 --> 02:42:20,870
in front of the planning board.

1883
02:42:22,390 --> 02:42:26,850
But is there a study that looks at the supply of water

1884
02:42:26,850 --> 02:42:30,290
and sewage capacity for the areas around downtown?

1885
02:42:30,430 --> 02:42:34,490
Yeah, we have a hydraulic model that we have

1886
02:42:34,490 --> 02:42:39,310
that underwood engineers basically has that,

1887
02:42:39,430 --> 02:42:40,350
and we work with them.

1888
02:42:40,530 --> 02:42:43,750
So for example, the RJ Kelly, you heard him ask about the,

1889
02:42:43,910 --> 02:42:46,030
oh, I'm sorry, I just wanted to know if something exists.

1890
02:42:46,290 --> 02:42:47,910
OK, I just know I hydraulic my.

1891
02:42:48,230 --> 02:42:48,590
Thank you.

1892
02:42:51,330 --> 02:43:00,030
So just getting into the lease water facilities plan, we're asking for $425,000 to continue

1893
02:43:00,030 --> 02:43:05,150
to implement some of the components of the lease water facilities plan.

1894
02:43:06,010 --> 02:43:13,350
This is a plan that, this is a request that is split two-thirds, one-third by UNH and

1895
02:43:13,350 --> 02:43:13,710
the town.

1896
02:43:13,710 --> 02:43:20,870
So we pay for one third of that UNH pays for two-thirds of that all the capital projects are allocated that way

1897
02:43:20,870 --> 02:43:28,330
You can imagine the wastewater treatment plant and the whole collection system is is very very complex

1898
02:43:28,330 --> 02:43:33,550
It has many many large pumps blowers motors tankage

1899
02:43:33,550 --> 02:43:42,510
clinical equipment, scale electronics, PLCs, you name it, and all of these things have a certain useful life.

1900
02:43:43,070 --> 02:43:49,950
We have a master of facilities master plan that allows us, in fact, we're in the process of updating that right now.

1901
02:43:50,750 --> 02:43:58,690
That is something that allows us to predict what needs to be replaced, what's approaching the end of its useful life,

1902
02:43:58,690 --> 02:44:28,490
What we need to upgrade from a regulatory standpoint to meet our permit conditions and one of the things that is coming down the pike and you'll see that I would encourage you to read those two documents that I included this year in the capital plan on both the roads and the approach that we're taking in the recommendations but also on the wastewater facilities plan that goes into a little bit of detail about some of the upcoming challenges that we have.

1903
02:44:28,490 --> 02:44:37,170
on treatment within a new permit that was issued for our waste water treatment plant having to do with copper and

1904
02:44:37,170 --> 02:44:44,930
treating copper and managing that pollutant. So a lot of this this funding that we get the one-third of the

1905
02:44:45,450 --> 02:44:54,110
425,000 and the two-thirds of the UNH portion goes into that regulatory compliance and upkeeping of the waste water collection

1906
02:44:54,110 --> 02:44:57,690
and system and pump stations and things like that.

1907
02:44:57,950 --> 02:44:59,970
And just to know that...

1908
02:45:00,000 --> 02:45:14,320
Unlike the fire department agreement with UNH where we split the cost for operation and capital 5050 with the water and waste water department's capital is two thirds UNH one third Durham. That's the cost here.

1909
02:45:17,260 --> 02:45:31,340
So the last item I just wanted to briefly touch on was the rank renovation and recreation center project, which is on page 147. You'll see that's targeted for construction in 2029.

1910
02:45:31,940 --> 02:45:55,640
that would be, as envisioned, all fundraising, whether that's viable or not, I don't know at this point in time, but I just wanted to flag that for you, so you could see that there's a funding in 27, which comes from the Rinc Fund 28 requested and then 29 for the major project.

1911
02:45:55,640 --> 02:46:04,680
And I'll note that following Bill's presentation to the planning board last month, we received

1912
02:46:04,680 --> 02:46:11,860
a call from the New Hampshire Division of Parks and Recreation, because in the early

1913
02:46:11,860 --> 02:46:19,740
2000s, we received a grant for maybe $20 to $30,000 to build a trail system at Wagonhill

1914
02:46:19,740 --> 02:46:20,080
Farm.

1915
02:46:20,080 --> 02:46:22,360
and as part of that-

1916
02:46:22,360 --> 02:46:24,020
At the rink? At Jackson's Laney.

1917
02:46:24,300 --> 02:46:26,980
Yes, I'm sorry, at the rink at Jackson's Laney.

1918
02:46:27,580 --> 02:46:29,620
And as part of that agreement,

1919
02:46:29,980 --> 02:46:33,600
we committed to leave everything there,

1920
02:46:34,220 --> 02:46:36,220
open air and external.

1921
02:46:36,520 --> 02:46:38,840
So that would, it seems,

1922
02:46:39,040 --> 02:46:44,140
preclude us from covering and not covering,

1923
02:46:44,400 --> 02:46:46,200
but making the rink an indoor facility.

1924
02:46:46,760 --> 02:46:48,980
So we're following up with the division

1925
02:46:48,980 --> 02:46:54,420
of Parks and Recreation just to learn more. So stay tuned.

1926
02:46:55,960 --> 02:47:03,760
Well, that's what they're asserting. Yes. So we'll see what that in fact means in practice.

1927
02:47:04,600 --> 02:47:09,840
But beyond that, we are happy to answer any and all questions that you may have.

1928
02:47:12,060 --> 02:47:13,260
Yes, yes.

1929
02:47:14,220 --> 02:47:19,720
Just one, I noticed that a lot of the bonding is through the New Hampshire Municipal Bond.

1930
02:47:20,860 --> 02:47:27,920
I guess that's a bank and that it was tagged at 2.9% which seems low to me right now and

1931
02:47:27,920 --> 02:47:31,300
it seems like I would, if you're getting that, that seems like a good right.

1932
02:47:31,500 --> 02:47:37,080
I just was wondering what the, any ideas what the rate would be, it feels like it would be

1933
02:47:37,080 --> 02:47:42,180
more like mid-3s but I'm not sure and then if that rate changes how much does it impact

1934
02:47:42,180 --> 02:47:44,620
the ability to do these projects?

1935
02:47:45,120 --> 02:47:53,920
Yeah, so we will fluctuate between going out and issuing a bond ourselves, or participating with the New Hampshire Municipal Bond Bank.

1936
02:47:54,680 --> 02:47:58,440
The benefit of working with the Bond Bank is it's easier on the business office.

1937
02:47:58,600 --> 02:48:00,640
There are fewer steps because they handle most of it.

1938
02:48:01,100 --> 02:48:07,300
And they aggregate the bonding needs of towns and cities and school districts and counties to get a better rate.

1939
02:48:07,300 --> 02:48:16,480
And so the rates that you see cited are the actual rates from the last issuance, and that's the best information they have for us.

1940
02:48:16,920 --> 02:48:29,160
Now, the Federal Reserve just did increase rates by the quarter percent, so that would flow down to the bond bank when they issue their next set of debt, but this is the best information we have.

1941
02:48:29,940 --> 02:48:31,000
So, it's an estimate.

1942
02:48:31,000 --> 02:48:31,420
I

1943
02:48:37,120 --> 02:48:39,760
just want to recognize and thank Gail Jablanski.

1944
02:48:40,220 --> 02:48:46,920
This is her final CIP presentation for her years of service and great work on behalf

1945
02:48:46,920 --> 02:48:47,320
of the town.

1946
02:48:49,700 --> 02:48:50,080
Thank you.

1947
02:48:50,340 --> 02:48:50,520
All right.

1948
02:48:51,400 --> 02:48:52,180
Thank you.

1949
02:48:52,380 --> 02:48:52,540
All right.

1950
02:48:52,660 --> 02:48:58,760
So I'm more to come in the next month and a half will be really vetting all of this much

1951
02:48:58,760 --> 02:49:06,140
more and finalizing a document which would go to the council for review there and eventually

1952
02:49:06,140 --> 02:49:07,220
approval in some form.

1953
02:49:07,220 --> 02:49:08,500
So thank you.

1954
02:49:09,140 --> 02:49:09,660
Have a great day.

1955
02:49:10,480 --> 02:49:10,580
Yes.

1956
02:49:11,100 --> 02:49:14,740
Well, thanks for all that you all do, for everything you all do.

1957
02:49:14,900 --> 02:49:22,240
It's amazing all the details behind the scenes that are not always seen but that are taken

1958
02:49:22,240 --> 02:49:22,720
care of.

1959
02:49:22,920 --> 02:49:27,820
So it's I think you do a terrific job and the detail is outstanding.

1960
02:49:27,820 --> 02:49:29,160
And so thank you.

1961
02:49:30,400 --> 02:49:34,000
The Durham team is small but mighty.

1962
02:49:34,500 --> 02:49:34,900
Great job.

1963
02:49:49,250 --> 02:49:59,490
That was a question for the packet, okay, we'll send them for the next meeting then.

1964
02:50:00,110 --> 02:50:00,330
All right.

1965
02:50:02,150 --> 02:50:03,790
Is there any other business?

1966
02:50:05,830 --> 02:50:13,110
So, Mr. Chairman, we're not going to give the town administrator any suggestions or advice.

1967
02:50:15,980 --> 02:50:16,480
Do you have?

1968
02:50:16,720 --> 02:50:17,760
Do we have some suggestions?

1969
02:50:18,960 --> 02:50:25,100
About three or four hours worth, so I'll pass it on to him privately.

1970
02:50:25,820 --> 02:50:26,000
Okay.

1971
02:50:26,260 --> 02:50:26,960
That's great.

1972
02:50:27,740 --> 02:50:28,500
I don't want to.

1973
02:50:28,760 --> 02:50:32,560
Todd, I really appreciate all the work you've put into this.

1974
02:50:32,560 --> 02:50:42,400
But my reaction to this budget from the one last year, the CIP, the last two years before

1975
02:50:42,400 --> 02:50:46,500
this, is that so much has been pushed off and pushed back.

1976
02:50:48,460 --> 02:50:58,380
We may not be able to afford to do the things we really need to do unless we have a lot

1977
02:50:58,380 --> 02:51:02,260
A lot of millionaires settling here and building

1978
02:51:02,260 --> 02:51:04,400
Mac mansions and paying huge taxes

1979
02:51:05,160 --> 02:51:07,620
and not putting any kids in the school system,

1980
02:51:07,880 --> 02:51:09,120
et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

1981
02:51:09,820 --> 02:51:12,860
But I don't see that happening.

1982
02:51:13,220 --> 02:51:23,160
So I think we're in danger of being an unaffordable community

1983
02:51:23,160 --> 02:51:35,800
for many people. But that's the result of having been here when the town offices were

1984
02:51:35,800 --> 02:51:46,780
in the old courthouse. We had a town clerk. We didn't have a town administrator. The police

1985
02:51:46,780 --> 02:51:52,600
station was in the courthouse. Public works had a little building in a parking lot.

1986
02:51:53,400 --> 02:52:05,420
So we have really built a wonderful community with many departments, with many employees

1987
02:52:05,420 --> 02:52:15,480
these providing wonderful services, but we're going to have to find some way to have more

1988
02:52:15,480 --> 02:52:22,700
revenue coming in, so but I think you all know that, so thank you, Todd.

1989
02:52:23,380 --> 02:52:32,940
I would just say that with the projects in the CIP that have been requested, again, what

1990
02:52:32,940 --> 02:52:38,560
What you have before is not the final version, but in the initial vetting, the vast majority

1991
02:52:38,560 --> 02:52:46,420
of them are simply continued investment in the infrastructure needed to provide the services

1992
02:52:46,420 --> 02:52:49,200
that we currently provide in a reliable way.

1993
02:52:49,600 --> 02:52:52,800
There's not a lot of extra in here.

1994
02:52:52,960 --> 02:52:54,600
There's really not any extra in here.

1995
02:52:54,740 --> 02:52:57,820
Other than the rink, the rink would be an example.

1996
02:52:59,020 --> 02:53:02,080
That would be something new, something different.

1997
02:53:02,080 --> 02:53:05,640
something better, bigger, providing more services.

1998
02:53:06,060 --> 02:53:07,180
That's a new thing.

1999
02:53:08,020 --> 02:53:12,640
But replacing the ladder truck or the dump truck

2000
02:53:12,640 --> 02:53:17,500
in public works, the new truck would replace an older truck

2001
02:53:17,500 --> 02:53:21,560
that really should be replaced because we rely on it,

2002
02:53:21,800 --> 02:53:24,680
as a frontline vehicle during the most critical times.

2003
02:53:26,020 --> 02:53:29,020
And for pieces of equipment like that, we've carefully

2004
02:53:29,020 --> 02:53:36,480
valued whether it would be possible to go electric or to go hybrid versus the traditional

2005
02:53:37,080 --> 02:53:40,800
diesel type vehicle we use, and there's not a viable option.

2006
02:53:40,980 --> 02:53:46,260
So we're doing it, we believe, in the most efficient way to do that basic important

2007
02:53:46,260 --> 02:53:48,100
public safety task.

2008
02:53:50,500 --> 02:53:57,360
So anyhow, there's, you know, the Medbury Road Complete Streets project, much of that was

2009
02:53:57,360 --> 02:54:03,020
required to do, the water needed to be done, the waste water needed to be done, the storm water there needed to be done.

2010
02:54:03,380 --> 02:54:10,780
It needed to be repaved, and for a modest additional investment, Durham got something really special.

2011
02:54:11,960 --> 02:54:16,680
And could the Council have chosen not to take that extra step it could have, but

2012
02:54:16,680 --> 02:54:21,760
it opted based on a lot of feedback from the public to move ahead without enhancement.

2013
02:54:22,220 --> 02:54:23,100
So we have an enhancement.

2014
02:54:23,100 --> 02:54:30,160
The Milpine Dam is another example, it's a project that we had to do something, it's a

2015
02:54:30,160 --> 02:54:35,320
big change, there's a cost, it's not free, but we had to take action in some way.

2016
02:54:35,560 --> 02:54:38,200
And the council, the town made a decision.

2017
02:54:39,260 --> 02:54:42,180
So just to respond, yeah.

2018
02:54:42,440 --> 02:54:51,940
If I had one bit of advice to give, is that take the very last item in the CIP, the item

2019
02:54:51,940 --> 02:54:59,000
is to purchase Sammy's lock from the university in 2033 for one and a half million dollars.

2020
02:55:00,490 --> 02:55:10,880
I suggest we work to acquire that lock now, sooner rather than later, so the town would

2021
02:55:10,880 --> 02:55:20,940
be in a better position to negotiate with potential developers who want to take the large amount

2022
02:55:20,940 --> 02:55:26,800
of property on Main Street and the business, central business district that backs up the

2023
02:55:26,800 --> 02:55:40,260
semis a lot, and be able to work out a development plan that will integrate that town property

2024
02:55:40,640 --> 02:55:43,480
with the private properties facing Main Street.

2025
02:55:43,480 --> 02:55:49,980
And frankly, I think the university has taken so many things away from us, our library,

2026
02:55:52,440 --> 02:56:00,940
the pool, which used to be a talent pool, etc., that it might be time for the university

2027
02:56:00,940 --> 02:56:05,060
to give us something back, to give us Sammy's lot.

2028
02:56:05,060 --> 02:56:17,060
Oh, all right. Well, just so like with so many of the projects in the SAP, there's a lot to unpack with each of them, but I would just say in terms of the

2029
02:56:18,460 --> 02:56:32,120
Sammies also called the store 24 lot also called the to desky lot. We now called the Bobcat lot. It's the lot behind what is was youngs is now Clarks. That's right. It's that long.

2030
02:56:32,120 --> 02:56:34,280
on the south side of.

2031
02:56:34,420 --> 02:56:36,160
So just so people know what we're talking about,

2032
02:56:36,160 --> 02:56:39,180
that lot was part of one of the original

2033
02:56:39,180 --> 02:56:42,800
Thompson bequests to the university or to the state.

2034
02:56:43,720 --> 02:56:47,380
And it literally takes an act of the state legislature

2035
02:56:48,150 --> 02:56:51,640
to sell pieces of that.

2036
02:56:52,360 --> 02:56:55,780
And the university does not have an interest at the present time

2037
02:56:56,380 --> 02:56:59,520
in going to the legislature for such a request.

2038
02:56:59,520 --> 02:57:04,760
And my guess is, it's unlikely the legislature would provide it.

2039
02:57:05,120 --> 02:57:09,800
And one never knows what they might do with the idea, if it's raised to them,

2040
02:57:10,380 --> 02:57:14,380
with the current composition of this or future of legislatures.

2041
02:57:14,540 --> 02:57:17,880
So I agree with you, I think Durham should own that lot.

2042
02:57:18,320 --> 02:57:22,700
And have tried to move in a way that would allow us to acquire it.

2043
02:57:23,320 --> 02:57:28,340
And in fact, a year ago, I had a serious conversation with

2044
02:57:28,340 --> 02:57:32,160
the planning team at UNH and the finance team at UNH

2045
02:57:32,160 --> 02:57:37,820
to see whether that might make sense for UNH to sell it to Durham

2046
02:57:38,320 --> 02:57:40,760
as part of the broader Edge at West End project

2047
02:57:41,760 --> 02:57:44,380
which would enable Durham to acquire the parcel

2048
02:57:44,380 --> 02:57:47,280
UNH to receive some cash from Durham

2049
02:57:47,280 --> 02:57:51,960
that it could then use toward the Edge at West End project.

2050
02:57:52,700 --> 02:57:56,560
But after legal review and political review

2051
02:57:56,560 --> 02:57:59,720
it was determined by UNH, there was no interest.

2052
02:58:00,560 --> 02:58:03,020
So that is simply a placeholder.

2053
02:58:03,360 --> 02:58:06,720
And then I would just note that the former UNH

2054
02:58:06,720 --> 02:58:10,440
outdoor pool built during the works project administration

2055
02:58:10,440 --> 02:58:13,540
was never owned by the town of Durham ever.

2056
02:58:13,820 --> 02:58:16,440
It was always a University of New Hampshire facility

2057
02:58:17,080 --> 02:58:19,100
owned and operated by UNH.

2058
02:58:19,920 --> 02:58:23,280
Durham made a modest contribution to subsidize

2059
02:58:23,280 --> 02:58:31,940
the cost of passes for that but well action that's an old argument we've had for a long

2060
02:58:31,940 --> 02:58:36,860
a lot of reasons it's time came and went and we have a new pool and I would argue

2061
02:58:37,740 --> 02:58:42,640
one of the best pools in the state of New Hampshire that's available to Durham residents at

2062
02:58:42,640 --> 02:58:49,500
no cost whatever in terms of building construction or maintenance. Durham got such a deal

2063
02:58:49,500 --> 02:58:55,720
and we don't have residents swimming in a pool that did not meet any of the

2064
02:58:55,720 --> 02:59:02,920
modern health and safety standards. Okay so there's that too. Thank you

2065
02:59:02,920 --> 02:59:09,980
Todd. Thank you. Motion to adjourn. Second.

2066
02:59:13,920 --> 02:59:24,680
That was a motion to adjourn it was yes, so I'll just say it outside of the me so to joy and