Good morning everybody. I'm going to call the Finance and
Administration Committee of Tuesday, May 12th to order. Madam Clerk.
Can we do a roll call, please?
We have quorum. Any Declarations of interest. Being none, I'm
going to start with an announcement. I want to introduce
and welcome Glenn D's. The region's new director of Business
Plans and Budgets. Welcome Glenn. Glen has been with the
region for about two months now, and he joins our
team from North Humberton County, where we're serving as interim
CAO. Prior to that, he was involved in very senior
leadership roles in the Finance, including Director of Finance and
Treasurer, and served a director of health and human services
within the community and social services. Here at the region,
Glen will play a critical part in our annual business
planning and budget process. Welcome to this meeting. And advancing
long - term financial strategies, ensuring we remain at the
forefront of best practices and supporting the region's strategic direction
in Corva values. Members of the committee, and I want
to hopefully join me in welcoming Glenn to the region.
Welcome to Glenn. Adoption is the minutes. Moved by Councillor
McDougal, second by Councillor Crawford, approval the minutes of Finance
Meeting of April 14th, as well as the closed Financial
Financing Committee meeting of the same date. Any questions, comments,
corrections? Being none, Paul's in favor. Opposed that items carried.
There are no statutory public meetings. There are no presentations.
We have two delegations, and then the chief will speak
with opening comments on the report. And then we'll have
go through the reports. Our first delegation is from Andrew
Tummings, who is the president of the Durham Regional Police
Association. Frequent visitor to our chamber. So Andrew, welcome. Thank
you, Coven for having me. I'm here to speak to
you today on behalf of the members that I represent.
I'd like to first take this opportunity to thank the
passing of the DRPS budget, but now we're here to
talk about the Capitol Plan. And that capital plan is
very important in a number of ways. Durham is a
area that is very unique to all the other police
departments in the area. The majority of our members live
in Durham region. The 1500 members that I represent are
taxpayers in this region. They understand the pressures that come
with this budget being passed in a way that will
cause an increase in the taxes they pay. I'm not
here to lay blame on anybody for anything that's happened
in the past, but there has been very little that
has been done to help us move forward in these
buildings. We have buildings where you can't drink the water.
We have buildings that are 54 years old and have
mold and are not safe for our employees to work
at. These are not just issues of leaky roof that
needs repairing. These are fundamental issues that members need to
have looked after. Everyone in this room is well aware
that the election coming up. We're all aware that that
means that there is a bigger pressure on the people
that are running. The issue we have with this is
if we do not deal with it now, we are
doing what numerous other councils have done before, and we're
kicking the can down the road. We have been the
oversight that has happened as caused us issues. We have
a range that is too short for us to fire
rifles in. Rifles that we have to be qualified with
every year. The province mandates that we have these qualifications.
So we have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to
put these members and an outdoor range in North Durham
that were already receiving complaints about the gunfire is too
loud. We are putting band - aids on problems that
all we are doing is making it so that there
can't be fixes. There has to be a fixed. And
I understand that these pressures are financial and that everybody
understands that money is an issue, especially at this time.
But we are not asking for something that is looking
to fix the problem today. It's a 10 - year
plan. And if we don't do it now, we are
just putting that off, and it only increases the issues
of the funding. We can't just sit back and say,
this isn't going to work now. We are the fastest
grow - in region in the province. We ran a
survey, and we sent it out to the members of
the Durham region to find out what is one of
their top priorities. Public safety is a top priority. I
know that everyone that is in the room are logged
on that is going to be running in the fall
will be addressing public safety as one of your top
priorities to the community. You cannot sit and say the
public safety is your number one priority, the DRPS budget
was great. That's what gets us boots on the ground.
That's what gives us new units, gives us the ability
to move forward with we can do it. It doesn't
help us if we are in antiquated buildings. If we
can't even be safe in our own buildings, how do
we feel that we're supporting the public. Everyone knows that
domestic violence is one of the top priorities of the
Durham Region Police. It's on the rise across the country.
It is a horrible crime, and the victims in it
have a hard time coming forward because it is life
- altering when you make that claim. So if you
finally taken the step to want to do that, now
you want to go to the Oshawa station and you
want to report that to the police. We don't have
a dedicated parking lot. So you have to find spots
on the street to be able to come in and
talk to the police. This is a crime that affects
your family and affects all your relatives in that. You
will split people up over this crime. You were looking
for any reason not to come forward with this report.
If we can't even give you a secure area to
come to a facility and report it, what are we
doing for the public. And then if you can find
a building, a parking spot, you're coming into a building
that is 54 years old. This building is far, far
newer than any of the facilities that my members are
currently working at, and it's had how many facelifts, because
you've outgrown the space. That's not a shot at anybody
of this shouldn't happen. It had to happen. You needed
to revamp this area. I'll just close with saying, I'm
here because like you, I represent people. And the people
I represent are my members, and they're watching me, and
they're watching everybody in this room. They are voting members
of their Durham region, and we need to step up
and act this time and not kick it down the
road. Thank you. Thank you. Andrew, can you stay there?
I'm sure there's some questions. No problem, sorry. I do
have one. Yes. If members of the committee or members
elsewhere have, please put your request to speak. I see
Chair Colliers. My question is in regards to what collaboration
was done in regards to the services priorities. Were you
involved in it was a year issue as a health
- to - safety top of bind. And if you
were to pick. Or identify priorities, would it be. Safety
at Oshawa? Would it be water in New York, or
in the north? How were you involved in the formation
of this report. I've been involved in it since I
became president. Like I said, these are not new issues.
These are issues that date back 10, 15 years. The
North Durham Station started when I did. So that was
26 years ago. We have been well aware of the
issues from day one at that division. Numerous presidents have
talked about the problems. This command has been very forthright
in coming to me and asking me, what is our
concerns? To frankly, to give you one to say, here's
my number one priority. That time has came and gone,
because now my priorities are we need everything looked into,
because we've kicked the can down the road so many
times. There's so many problems that we can't just pick
one. The safety of my members in Oshawa, I know
the chief has brought this up to you. I have
in passing before. Our own personal vehicles have to be
stored in a lot that is rented that we can't
fence. Our vehicles are damaged on a regular basis, whether
it's keyed, whether nuts have been loosened on wheels, where
a member had the tire come off on their way
home on the 115. These are not issues that are
new. There are issues that have been going on, and
we need to have them addressed. Thank you. Committee members
First Councillor MacDougal. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for
Presentation and Delegating today. Um, I do have to ask
first off, cause I'm a little bit sensitive about this
professionally speaking. Are you encouraging your members to go into
an unsafe work environment. We are trying to make sure
that they are not in an unsafe work environment. And
we have been. You got your hand up, you want
them to stop, I stopped. Thank you. Are you encouraging
your members to go into an unsafe work environment. No.
So they shouldn't go into an unsafe work environment. No.
So if the North Division is unsafe. They shouldn't be
going in. If that is the direction that we want
to take, then I will demand that. We are trying,
we are not. We are not anyone that can strike.
That's not what we can do. All we can do
is comply and then bring it to you that there
needs to be something fixed. If the direction needs to
be that I need to go to the labour board,
the Ministry of Labour to fix these problems, I will.
But that is not what I'm trying to do here.
We have tried and are trying to work with you
to make this a better spot. Water is brought in
to the division so the members can have water to
drink. The fact of the matter is to pay to
have water trucked in to a building, cost money that
comes out of a police budget. The same as to
try to fix a problem of water in a regional
building to come out of a police budget means that
that's less officers on the road for me. It's a
regional problem, it's a regional building to region needs to
fix it. Okay, thank you. So through you, this is
a budgetary issue regarding water. And numerous other things, yes.
Okay, very good. Um. I'm fully in support of the
idea of this tenure plan, of eight, 10 year plan.
I don't know if this is exactly the one or
not, and I'm sure there can always be changes to
plants. Councillor. Thank you. Questions to the Delegation. Question. So
the question is, where was this 10 - year plan
like 105 days ago when we approved the police budget.
I don't think that. The plan has been out there
for a number of times and it's been put off
numbers of times. I think that question's more appropriate. Okay.
Put to the chief or the CEO or the commissioner,
and we'll have an opportunity to do that. Okay, thank
you. Thank you for the questions on the Delegate. No,
that's all. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Councillor Pettengell. Thank you very much. And through
you. With regards to the North Division building, we understand
that there isn't potable water. And I see bottled water
in all of our facilities all the time. I mean,
is that water good enough for washing hands? Or how
bad is it? We have water trucked in to that
building in order to shower. Okay. What are the other,
and first of all, do you know what the general
cost of that water being taken in every year, just
ballpark figure? Honestly, that would be a question better suited
for the chief because I'm not aware of the finances
of it. I don't know if it's like 10, 000
dollars a year. I couldn't even hazard a guess what
it is, but I can tell you that if it's
10, 000, that's where we're talking about of that's 10,
000 dollars every month that could be better utilised if
we were in a location or had the ability not
to have to spend that 10, 000 every month. Oh
no, I'm sure. And I don't know how much it
costs definitely to fix potable water issues. I know that
with First Nations, it seems to be impossible, right? We
never get those things fixed. What are the other. I'm
just going to quick ask, what are the other main
problems with that facility? And thirdly, when you did an
overall assessment on the buildings, who did you hire to
make that assessment and put the value on it. Um,
we've had assessments safety assessments done in the last year,
almost a year now, to say what are some of
the conditions in the building. Now. President's before me and
myself knew some of these problems and have been advocating
for them for a long time. Number one on our
list has always been fencing around our properties. And the
safety that brought it in also spoke of better lighting
cameras. We have to realise, and I know that some
members of the public think that, well, okay, we're police
officers were armed so we can look after ourselves. And
I get that. But everybody has the right to feel
safe in their own work environment. I shouldn't have to
walk out of a building and be aware of do
I need to be on duty aware of my situations
in my own parking lot. Because then it's making it
that my mental health is always at the forum of
it. Now the company that we hired, um, that was
not the association that hired it was the service. So
again, I can't tell you the name. I have seen
the reports. And we are frankly try and get them
to move forward with that. Okay. Thank you. I guess
from a municipal perspective, you know, an asset management, we
have our buildings viewed, scrutinized by, you know, an engineer
every year. And those costs come forward to the next
budget and we know exactly what we have to do
to keep that building in a fair condition. So I
just wondered, are the police buildings part of the regional
asset management in the same way? Do they get examined
yearly or biannually? I guess that's a question to you.
I'll let the commissioner answer it, although we shouldn't be
doing Q and AR delegate, but you speak to us
at management. So through you, the chair. So as part
of the regions asset management program, the police form part
of our asset management program, uh, and there is reviews
that were done for by ways of review that the
delegate spoke to in terms of assessments of their properties
that help inform investment decisions. Okay. So stuff sees those
reports and inspections every year or however, often they are
done. And then theoretically. Improvements that are made to those
very facilities would show up in the next budget. So
through the chair, it's a little bit different with the
service. So, um, the, um, the review that the delegate
was speaking to this, I'll call it a security review
that was done. That was my understanding was taken on
by the service, uh, and that request was brought forward
to this Council for approval earlier on this year. And,
uh, and was approved to invest in those recommendations that
were part of that study. There was a, uh, their
security associated with it. It wasn't at all addressing the
security report. I remember that. I know I didn't mean
that. I meant the mold and the roof and those
things. Councillor, again, I think you're raising excellent points, but
let's park those until we get to the report because
that's, we have more appropriate time for staff to respond
to them. Councillor, to some of those points. We, we
do have in every building, we have our members that
are committee of health and safety. So when we see
issues that are brought up, those members bring it to
myself and my vice president. And we bring it to
the department and say, these are miners that need to
be addressed. They are addressed in a timely manner when
they're brought up. But the problem that we have and
that the department is facing is that it's been years
and years a band - aid solutions. Cleaning of mold,
not fixing the root cause of mold so that we
are constantly always in a state of repair, not in
a, we fix the problem. And every year we're fixing
it. Thank you. I do appreciate that. And I do
appreciate how our other municipal buildings also get patched and
repaired. So that's why I'm just looking for some of
the details on, on those reports. I appreciate what you
say. Thank you. Thank you. Mayor, call your. Questions of
the delegate. Through you, Mr. Tommins, uh, Mr. Thomas, you
sent a letter to me on April 13th outlining a
number of these concerns. Um, there was an incident about
two weeks ago. Can you speak to that, please? Where
two officers were injured? Yes. Two weeks ago, two of
my officers, well, in the back parking lot of the
17 division, which is Oshawa were assaulted to put it
bluntly. They were assaulted by a member of the community
suffering from mental health issues. But the officers had no,
no warning, no idea that it was coming until he
was on them. And one officer sustained injuries through their
leg. Another to their face area in an area that
is signed. There's a sign that says public do not
cross. And this has been the problem that we, which
brought me to write that letter to you is that
we have been talking about this for 10 years, that
there is no reason for anyone to be in the
back area. Not only for the members of my department
who were at risk, that is a Sally port area
where we bring and take out prisoners. Those prisoners are,
they also have the right to safety. They shouldn't have
to be in that back area and fear what if
somebody was to want to attack them while they're being
released from the back of 17 division. It was the
final straw of, that's why I've had to write this
letter. And that's why I'm speaking here today is because
I'm not the first president to have brought these items
up. I know the president before me. I worked with
them very closely. He's brought these items up. The president
before him brought these items up. Our tenures are four
years. I'm talking three presidents just in that math alone.
We're talking 12 years of us saying that these problems
need to be fixed. Now when it has crossed over
that I actually have members that have been hurt now
into an area where I believe that the work environment
is unsafe. I also understand that that means that there
needs to be fences up. And fences don't happen overnight.
So I cannot tell my members not to come to
work because we serve the public. That's our number one
priority. That's why we do this job. But we also
want to be safe. And if I believe that we're
moving in a right direction, then that's, that's good for
my members. That's good for the public. But I think
that we had to write that letter. And I think
that I had to be here today to speak because
I don't think we're moving in the right direction. So
in this letter, you outline seven or eight different deficiencies.
Some of them we talked about today. And five requests
for five, uh, five items to be met. My job
is to make sure under the act that we're providing
Ado couldn't affect a policing. If this isn't approved and
we are not able to number two, a comprehensive plan
and timeline to modernize or replace facilities. What are your
options as far as, um, contracting minister and labour. I
just want you outline the next steps. If adequate effect
of policing is not being provided for our members. That's
very much to what the Councillor's first question was to
me. Will I allow my members to continue to work
in an unsafe environment? No, I will not. And I
will go to the labour board and I will do
everything that I can to ensure that my members are
safe. Because like everyone in this room, I report to
my members. I work for them. And if they're not
safe, I'm going to do everything in my power and
I will leverage every municipal or federal or provincial member
that I can to make sure my members are safe.
And what does that look like. As far as repercussions
to DRPS and the reaching of Durham? It would mean
the ministry of labour will be coming in and it
will mean that the ministry of labour will start to
see these safety reports that said these things are top
priorities and top necessities. And that's from a independent security
agency that came in and did this. If we're working
in the right direction, again, I will always continue to
do that if we're not, then I will have to
look out for the best interests of my members. And
I will bring in whatever I have to help that.
Thank you. Thank you, Chair. Thank you. Chair. Councillor Wu
online. Councillor Wu.
I can't hear anything you're saying. Was he on the
screen? Councillor, can you do your request button again, please?
It's not working. Okay. I'm going to go to Councillor
Neal. For questions and then, uh, Councillor, perhaps you can
try again. Councillor Neal, you have the floor. Yeah. Thanks,
Mr. Chair. Like Clebanan Council 26 years and when that
North Station was open, how did that station get there
with no potable water. I'd love to give you an
answer for that. But unfortunately the station opened while I
was at Elmer and I have no idea why we
put a station in what is a middle of a
swamp. Well, I just like to know how it got
there because of her. If there never was plottable water,
why was it built or any station on a floodplain
or anything else? I agree with you, but I cannot
give you that answer because it was not my decision.
Okay, because I just don't understand how it would even
be there, but it's against the law. To actually put
a building up out there with no potable water. That
has to be, uh, the results of water testing has
to be handed in. And everything before it stations certified
to go. So I'm just wondering how that could happen.
Again. Thank you. I agree with you, but I'm not
here today to lay blame or to blame either. I'm
just wondering how that could even happen. So thanks. Councillor
Neal, if I could give you some history because I
happen to be on the board at the time as
a private citizen appointed by Council, uh, that was not
the location that the board picked, uh, we had another
site, um, the old auction barn site actually. And we
actually had agreement to purchase. And the region opted to
go the facilities people opted to go at this site.
So that was not the board's position at the time.
So. Well, I'm just wondering how the site could be
picked with no potable water at all. So. A good
point. Thank you. I got to try Councillor Wu again.
Here we go. Willie, you got you. Yeah. Uh, can
you hear me now? Yes. Okay. Thank you very much.
Uh, through the chair and andrew. Thank you very much
for speaking up for your members. Uh, for these association.
Uh, one thing I did want to ask, we're talking
about the health and safety. Certainly with all of our
facilities, uh, that we have maybe other than the East
division. We're looking at spatial, uh, problems that we have
there, what the number of officers that we're hiring with
the, uh, even the locker situation. We are cramped. We
have outgrown those facilities. Can you speak to that? And
I know we've been talking about the North Division, the
Scugog, but other facilities, we are crap that we've both
grown them. Can you speak to some of that. Yes.
Like, like I said, I've been here for 26 years
and this region has doubled in size since I started.
Winfield Farms was a horse race track. When I first
became a police officer here now, and now it's the
fastest growing area in Oshawa. And the problem is these
buildings were designed for us at that time. A 54
year old building was adequate 54 years ago. Now those
same officers are the ones that respond to the North
Oshawa. We're full. The community's full and we need new
stations. And it isn't about the shiny buildings. We're not
trying, I'm not standing up here saying that I need
new buildings because I want them for the way they
look. We need new buildings because that's what we need
to be able to operate. We're trying to entice other
officers from other regions to come here and work for
us because we are growing so fast that we need
that experience. Can you imagine being an officer who works
in York and their buildings that they have there and
deciding that, Hey, you know what? I maybe do want
to come to Durham. I want to work in Durham.
And then talking to my officers and saying, Hey, what's
it like here? Well, there's mold in the gym. The
roof leaks when it rains. Uh, you can't drink the
water in the north station. Why would you leave to
come here if we can't even house our employees in
a safe manner. And, and frankly, you're right. They're too
small now. We're cramped. We're growing in size. Like I
said, I thank you for the budget that made it
so we could hire more members. But it doesn't do
us any good if we don't have spots to house
them. Well, my last question again is a follow up
you mentioned about, uh, Jim. Uh, in North vision, where
is the gym. I think they had to move it.
Right now the North Division is getting some, uh, upgrades
to its building and the washrooms have all been closed
down, as has the gym in order to be able
to do these. Um, we've had to facilitate to make
sure that we had the ability to still have a
shower and change room. And we've moved the gym out
to the garage. To the wear? To the garage behind
26 division, the small garage. And that's where the gym
is now located. The garage. Yes. Okay. Okay. Thank you
very much. Uh, thank you, chair. Thank you, Councillor Wu.
Chair. Chair Henry of the floor. Uh, thank you. And
thank you, Andrew, for being here today. Um, Andrew, today's
the first time I've heard about the parking lot issue
on the division in Oshawa. So I'm, I'm sorry to
have heard that. Uh, sorry, the First day you've heard
about a parking issue in Oshawa. Oh, it's the first
time I've heard about vehicles being vandalized in that parking
lot. You had mentioned that somebody loosened some lug nuts.
I frankly, I'm surprised to hear that this is the
first time you've heard about it because I know that
other presidents have spoken about that property because we, when
we first started in Oshawa, we did have a parking
lot to the north of the station as well, right?
To the northeast. That parking lot was taken away because
of the person that owned it no longer wanted a
rent to us. My comments are reflected in your comments
today about a vehicle being damaged. Okay. Okay. So I
will make a commitment to you today to find out
who owns that property and to see if it can
be fenced. Um, we, we have tried numerous times. And
I, I assumed that the region was aware of this.
We have tried numerous times to get that fact saying
you have my commitment. And I will check into that
today. I'm also not sure if you're aware that we
did find a solution a couple of years ago for
water into, um, into the poor periodivision. And for whatever
reason, it didn't happen. That's solution still exists. And it
is something that could go forward if this is going
to be a long period of time. I will sit
down with our staff again and talk about what that
solution is and see if it can be done. But
we did come up with that solution a couple of
years ago. And, and was that solution to come out
of the police budget or was it coming out of
the regions budget. Do you know, I'm not really sure.
That's why I'm going to sit down. But we will
find a way to make it work as we have
in the past. We've made a number of decisions that
were outside of the police budget to advance police services.
Uh, in the last couple of years. In fact, since
the chief has been there, I think we've approved, and
I rough notes, 51. 9 million in funding for major
capital facilities just since the chief's been here. Um, that
doesn't include the increases in the number of officers. And
you would be absolutely aware. It's about a 33 percent
increase. So I will go back and today in my
office, I will go back and work with our team
here to find the plans. And then I will make
sure the chief gets a copy of that direction. And
I thank you for that. And I want to put
out that I'm in the fourth year of my tenure
and I have an open door policy. And I have
always said that I would love to speak to whoever
would like to talk to me. People have not utilised
that ability to want to talk to me in regards
to some of this except when I'm here. Furthers are
numbers. It's very easy to give numbers of this is
the increase. We've increased in our staffing. That is true.
But we were 10 years without any increase to that
staffing. So when we increased staffing now over the last
three, we're just catching up from what we didn't do
for 10 years. And as I said, I'm not here
today to be argumentative or to try to say that
there's blame to be had. But we do need to
have a plan moving forward for the next 10 so
that we are not sitting here 10 years from now,
which will not be me as the president. But sitting
here going in the exact same roundabout that we are
right now of we have a problem. We have a
problem. We have a problem. We have been here. I
know of a document that was read by Randy Henning,
the president at the time that was 14 pages that
outlined issues that I'm still dealing with today. And that's
the problem is we keep kicking a can down a
road to say we're going to look into it. Oh,
let's, let's put a motion forward to adopt that we
will look into it. We can continue to look in
it. And it is only getting worse because these issues
are not being dealt with. And by not dealing with
them and not utilising all the members that can be
partners, this is what we've ended up with. We shortened
the range. Let me be very clear. We shortened our
gun range from the drawings by a certain amount of
feet. 10. The 10 feet that we shortened that range
to save money is the 10 feet to make it
that we now can't shoot our rifles in there. So
the rifles that we are to be trained on every
year, we can't shoot them in our own gun facility.
And now we're in North Durham shooting. And as you
can imagine, that's 20 officers with semi - automatic rifles
firing to be qualified. I can't believe that the neighbours
up there are happy with the fact of hearing all
that gunfire. But we have to do it. Because the
range we built is too short. Thank you, Andrew, for
your presentation today, as well as your continued advocacy. Uh,
we have another delegation and then we're going to get
through to the report. So thank you for being here.
Thank you. Thank you. Our next delegate. Our next delegate
is Douglas. Uh, resident from AJAX. Uh, welcome back to
our chamber, Mr. Glass. Uh, you have five minutes. And
I understand you might need a couple more minutes. So
I'll ask a committee at that point for extension. So
your time starts now. Great. Thank you, Chair. Committee members
and Durham police leadership. I appreciate the opportunity to speak
today and would like to wish all members a happy
police week. As a 30 year resident of Durham, I
strongly support the recommendation in this report to defer the
10 year budget strategy to next term. The report clearly
recognises that there is an election this fall. And that
the new elected Council is responsible for setting budgets in
2027 and beyond. This current Council's mandate for budgeting this
term has been fulfilled. With the 2026 budget. Residents of
Durham region will elect the next council. And they will
be charged with the 2027 property tax increases. This 10
year strategy serves as a starting point for the future
council. And this board should be thanked for their work
in putting it together. That said, the 2. 6 billion
in new strategic investments and capital facilities raises significant questions
for me as a taxpayer. I keep hearing one phrase
repeatedly adequate and effective policing. No one disputes any of
that. But the phrase is increasingly being used in a
way that becomes almost impossible to challenge. So I asked
the police board what exactly is the cost of adequate
and effective policing in documented, measurable terms. And where is
the public detailed itemized report showing what is legally required
versus what is operationally preferred. What is strategic expansion? And
what specific outcomes will taxpayers receive for each of these
investments? What I keep hearing is narrative risk instead of
clearly defined, quantifiable costs, and resident outcomes. That is how
you prove adequate and effective policing. Council has shown on
page 3 23 of this report. Taxpayers have clearly supported
the men and women who serve our community by increasing
their ranks by almost 42 percent. You should be asking
the board is what measurable improvements have occurred as a
result of our significant investments. For example, in the 2026
police budget, the key target for foot and bike patrols
is 2, 300 hours. But in 2022, the actual number
of these patrols was four times higher at 10, 000
hours. This, in spite of having much less officers in
2022. So the question I ask is, well, I have
committed street patrols not been reset to 10, 000 hours.
Residents and businesses alike are demanding more visible community presence.
Particularly in our vulnerable areas. Other results for things like
response times, show a similar pattern. Let me look at
the 10 year plan. Last week, the chief spent roughly
30 percent of his time speaking to the challenges of
operating effectively in police facilities. There were many verbal examples
about how efficiencies we're going to be gained by things
like centralized training. But there were no documented measurable savings
communicated publicly to support such significant investments. That matters. Council,
how are you and the police board supposed to hold
one another accountable when there is no line by line
documented measurable savings and outcomes reported. That is how mutual
accountability works. And I support the men and women who
keep our communities safe. But this does not mean abandoning
scrutiny, accountability or affordability. It also means working together. And
I was troubled by some of the comments I heard
last week. And even some of the ones earlier before
me, comments like the association is getting ready. I really
don't know what that means. And I don't know how
this builds future goodwill in the mutual service of residents
like me. We all want better. We all wish we
had more. But the police board, Council and every Department
needs to know that we have finite resources. Across Sturm
Region, residents are falling behind in their property taxes. And
your growing tax arreers is a warning sign. All of
you have growing tax arreers. That exactly why Resident Input
like mine today matters in setting priorities. As a resident
and taxpayer, I strongly support the recommendation to defer the
budget direction to the next elected Council. I see my
time's up. May I ask for a two - minute
extension. I moved by Councillor Crawford, second by Councillor Yamada
for two - minute extension. I'll just in favor oppose
that items care. Please continue. Great. So I urge the
Council to defer budget direction to the next Council. I
also urge this committee and council to require three things
going forward from the police board. Number one. A more
professional business - like case with measurable public targets and
deliverables. Two, scenario analysis showing what happens under different growth
assumptions and affordability concerns. And three, clear documented evidence that
shows how these investments will directly improve service and reduce
crime for residents. Because if taxpayers are asked to support
a 2. 6 billion dollar strategy, trust us is simply
not good enough. I'd like to speak to two other
quick things. On slide five, the chief's presentation last week,
he cited Durham's 1. 3 million population as the driver.
But the province's own ministry of Finance forecast shows that
Durham's projected population is 20 percent lower at 1. 06
million. Accordingly, I believe this council should be very carefully
questioning long - term budget assumptions, not just in the
police, but in transit works across the Durham. Because if
Durham's population is significantly higher than the province, we, that's
an issue. On May 7th, the second point, and I
think the police chief association or union association mention this
survey, one of those questions was asked because I got
that survey. Would you support increased spending on policing, even
if it impacted property taxes? It's a good question. But
the question provided no context regarding the 2. 6 billion
dollar scale of the proposal or its impact on property
taxes. That matters. So if DRPS plans to use this
survey suggests strong resident support for spending growth, I think
council needs to consider the framing of the question. Thank
you very much, Jay. Thank you, Mr. Glass. Um, and
he committee members. Have questions. No, so council, uh, Mayor
Collier, you have the floor. Thank you, chair. Uh, Mr.
Glass, you suggest that this committee should approve the recommendation
received information and sort of kick this down the field
to next council and next budget. Are you on the
impression this is the first time these numbers in this
Capitol plan have been before this council? Uh, in terms
of kicking it down the field, I think this is
my question is, do you believe this is the first
time these numbers have been before this council. Uh, I'm
not aware of, I can't. Well, you should probably know,
would it surprise you if I said that these numbers
should have been in front of this council for the
last five years plus mayor, we don't want to debate
the delegates, uh, questions the Delegation. I did. I said,
would it surprise you. If you were told that this
has been in front of this, the five year operating,
in 10 year capital for at least the five, last
five years. I'm not aware that I follow the budgets.
And what I've seen is that this council has been
very supportive in some pretty, um, remarkable budgets. And I
was glad to hear what Chair Henry just said about
the 51 million in capital spending. So that's not answered
my question. My next question is knowing now that this
has been kicked down the field every year for at
least the last five years. You still think it's appropriate
to put it off to the next Council again? No.
If you heard my presentation. So the answer is no.
Thank you. No, no. If you heard my presentation, I
think you need to line item detail those. If we're
going to have, uh. Yeah, thank you. Councillor Neal, you
have the floor. Yeah. Thanks Mr. Chair. Uh, thanks Mr.
Gloss for your presentation. You mentioned deliverables. In your Delegation.
And to put this off basically to 2027 under Bill
100 with an appointed chair coming forward. In your opinion
with that, uh, have any significance or would that help
out this police budget. Um, I, I'm no political expert.
I think that there's so much unknown. And I think
even the report, if I read it correctly suggests that
the change in the appointed chair is making that very
unknown. So this is another factor on why this should
be deferred. And I support that. I think it's reasonable
and rational. Okay. Thank you. Petten guild. Thank you. Thank
you very much. And through you. Thank you very much
for this presentation. When you talked about a more business
case scenario, do you mean something like you would like
to see metrics based on the size of the police
force versus safety in the community? Is that the kind
of metric you're looking for? Um, well, if we use
response times as an example. Right? We've invested considerable amount
of resources and officer time. In 2021, the response time
was 7. 3. Minutes. The standard is 7. 5. That
was 2021. Um, it's grown to 8. 2, 9. 5,
9. 2. And it's currently trending around 9. 2. Um,
the standard is 7. So we heard this big presentation
of all of this new money. But where is the
stated goals in terms of we're going to improve and
we're going to, this will deliver a 7. 5, uh,
response time. Uh, this is going to improve our clearance
rates by X. This is going to give us not
2, 300 community walking foot patrol, bike patrol hours. This
is going to get, I want to see with all
of those investments and all of these improvements, what particular
are the deliverables for those things. Um, because when you,
you know, ask a lot, you should be giving a
lot in return. And I'm not saying that our police
officers don't give back. They do tremendous work. I had
a conversation with one on Sunday going to my mom's.
I was going a little bit too fast up near
Goodwood Road. Um, great work. But we need to basically
make these budgets, um, not just for the police, but
all of our divisions much more outcome focused for residents.
Because I just, I'm not seeing that. So do you
think it's, first of all, do you think that is
a predictable. Metric that can be given back to you
and is a precedents for it and other police forces?
Do you think that they're able to say with this
money exactly project what the deliverals will be? Well, what
else are you basing any additional staff or investments on
otherwise. If you don't have that understanding of, okay, here's
where we are now, here's our problems. It's taken us
a little longer in the north to get there. If
we invest 20 percent more or whatever here, this is
going to improve that. Um, I'm not hearing any of
that. I'm hearing a lot of, you know, very serious
issues about buildings and things like that safety and all
of those things. But I'm not hearing the resident impact.
And at the end of the day, it's the resident
who's paying the property taxes very significant property taxes, not
only the last four years, but going forward as well.
I just didn't print it. Thanks very much. Thank you.
Councillor. Thank you Mr. Glass for your advocacy. I think
you're, uh, probably my inbox is full of your correspondence
more than anyone. And I know you put a lot
of work and thought into it. So thank you for
your, uh, participation today. Um, folks, we've got a couple
of reports that should go quickly. And then we'll get
to the, uh, main event. There was a miscommunication in
regards to the chief being a delegate. So I've, uh,
going to allow him to speak to the report. And
then we'll have an opportunity to, uh, have questions of
the chief. So we moved to Administration. There is correspondence,
uh, from the region of Halton, which, um, the recommendations
receive for information. Chair Henry. I'd like to give you.
An alternate recommendation. I'd like to. Give you a recommendation
to endorse. This item. Uh, also include the region of
Durham's position and that it be sent to the premier
minister flack. These five other regional governments and the MPPs
in Durham region. Okay. Recommendation from the chair is to
endorse as well as, um, include the Region's position as
well as copy to the members listed. Secretary Councillor Council.
I know I'm looking right at you Councillor Pattel. Debate.
Members. Councillor Neal. Councillor Neal.
Council Neal, can you put a request in again, please?
It's not working. They're dumping out. Go ahead and vote.
I'd appreciate it. Request or record and vote. I'd appreciate
it. There's no one from Osha on this committee. So.
Okay. Thank you. Uh, there is a request for recorded
voters. Is there any further debate. All those, oh, sorry.
We're going to have a recorded vote. Oh, sorry. Uh,
recorded vote has to be requested by. The court vote
requested by Chair Henry. Madam Clerk, we do the role,
please.
Looking for Councillor Crawford. The green. Or the red.
That vote is 70 with one absent. So it passes.
We now move to reports of administration. There's two reports.
One is appointment of new member to the Durham Advisory
Accessibility Advisory Committee. The recommendation is listed in our document
to appoint Annika Reed. Kind of a recommendation. Um, motion.
Chair Henry moves consent on the Reports for the appointment
of the new member as well as the extension of
the agreement for annual reports on, I'm not even going
to try that word. From First Base Solutions, do I
have seconder for that? Councillor Crawford and he pulls. Being
none. I'm going to call the question all those in
favor. Oppose that items carried. Uh, where we moved to
Finance Chief. Do you want to get comfortable? Because I
know you, uh, look very comfortable at the sitting down
the other day. So if it's okay, sir, I'll stay
here. Okay. Thank you. Um, this is in regards to
the report. For the Durham Regional Police Services Financing Strategy,
uh, the recommendation is to receive for information. Um, but
chief, you have the floor. I very much appreciate that.
And, um, hearing some of the delegations here is right
down, um, some, some, um, introductory comments if I could.
So one of the concerns I have here is that
this report and certainly some of the questions that are
being asked is conflating these conditions of our building with
a capital plan. This is much more than just capital.
This is much more than just infrastructure. This is about,
uh, members. This is about, um, technology. This is about
investments in the whole of service. And so, you know,
the community will ask questions of us with regards to
emerging crime trends and what this report does is it
addresses much more than just the state of our facilities.
And I think we've spoken at nauseam about those, uh,
the state of that. So I want to make sure
that we're not conflating the two things. Um, the, the,
um, the other, uh, issue is that even if we
were just to take the facilities by themselves and say,
let's fix these things, these buildings no longer meet our
needs, period, like full stop. It's that the condition of
our buildings is just good money after bad. We need
to move on. We need to have a plan and
we need to move on. This is an election year.
And I recognise the candidates will be advanced ambitious and
at times unrealistic commitments. And I understand the pressures that
that creates for all of you at the door, you
are hearing about affordability. At the same time, you're hearing
that the community safety remains a top priority. So I
want to start by thanking those who have supported recent
police budgets, budgets that were required to begin to address
the impacts of prolonged underinvestment. I use that word deliberately.
To be clear, we did not choose this moment to
bring these matters forward. This is the wrong time to
be doing it. I've been talking about this for three
years and our capital plan has been part of our
budget submissions. And it predates me. And I wish we
weren't this far behind. The situation we were in today
is the result of years of inadequate strategic planning and
investments. Ignoring the obvious. Many of the needs that we
are discussing today were identified decades ago, but deferred. At
the same time, other police services moved forward with stronger
reserves, capital plans aligned to their assets and goals. And
in some cases, revenue from property investments and dispositions. Our
capital requirements are not new. They have been well understood
by both the board and the region for some time.
You have the main report before you, but I strongly
urge you to prioritize attachment one. This document contains critical
operational context behind the Financial forecast. Context that, unlike other
regional strategies, has been placed in independence. Despite our collaboration,
the region, not Regional Staff, decided to move key operational
rationale to the back of this report minutes after I
finished my presentation on Friday. This contrasts with previous major
strategies, such as the housing and homelessness plan where full
context was presented to Council up front. I also want
to address the narrative that has emerged in recent days.
There's been a suggestion that all DRPS budget requests were
fully endorsed through past Council approvals. This obviously is a
mischaracterization of the process. Final vote is only part of
the budget cycle. And I say this because between 2010
and 2017, the service experience, no net new growth and
uniform staffing. No net new growth and uniform staffing. And
even saw reduction in its civilian, um, deployment, despite increasing
demands. During that same period, police board sent budgets to
council that identified base pressures. And these are the costs
for just maintaining current service levels, zero strategic investments. This
means just keeping the lights on. However, in many years,
including 2011, 12, 15, 16, 17, 2020 and 21 council
proved increases did not even cover the base operating pressures,
effectively resulting in a form of structural defunding. This was,
or ought to have been known. Across those years, the
service absorbed a cumulative shortfall of approximately 3. 75 percent.
And internally mitigate pressures, including holding positions vacant. Even with
the investments made in the last two years, we are
still managing the impacts of that, which is a 47
million dollar cumulative gap. That means from 2010 to roughly
2023, there was little to no net new growth or
strategic investment in policing. Well, every other regional service expanded.
Although officials, uh, often claim otherwise, policing has not been
the primary cause of increased regional, um, spending. And the
numbers do not lie. Growth in gross budget between 2018
and 2025, the region saw 73 and a half percent
increase in its gross budget. During this period of time,
Durham transits saw the greatest growth in its gross budget
by 158. Followed by social services at 87. 3 health
care at 68. 9. Durham police is fourth on that
list of five. At 55. 9 followed closely by public
works. In terms of net budgets. Very similar, where we
finish second last only to public works. In fact, the
share of the total regional growth spending has declined for
the police has declined from 18. 1 percent in 2018
just to compare the same number of years with only
a modest increase in our most latest budget to 16.
9 percent in 2026 Everybody else has grown in the
opposite direction. We've gone backwards. In closing, I want to
be very clear. DRPS is not an outlier. We represent
about 30 cents of every regional tax dollar. By comparison,
York Regional Police represents about 32 cents of every tax
dollar. Halton police 41 cents peel regional police 43 cents.
And I will say this, peal has dedicated reserve, something
we asked for. And I was directed by the board
to seek. And they also have a dedicated community safety
levy to fund future capital projects. In fact, peel just
recently approved at 1. 7 billion 10 year capital plan
to address the exact same pressures that I'm discussing here.
And their buildings are 20 years newer than ours. When
viewed in that context, the issue is not that Durham
is ahead. We are woefully behind. I know it's difficult,
particularly for those who have been supportive to hear that
we have been in effect deferring these pressures for years.
But this is not about blame. It's about acknowledging where
we are today. We cannot continue to delay and I
urge you to approve our 10 - year capital plan.
I appreciate the opportunity to speak to you. My focus
today was not a repeating my prior presentation, but to
explain how we got here and why now. When interacting
with your constituents, I understand that affordability and public safety
will be key considerations. These concerns are equally important to
our members who serve reside and raise families here in
our region. That is why we are committed to sharing
this context openly with the community so that they understand
the context in which these investments must be made. And
what has led us to this point here. And what
has led to this critical juncture that this committee has
to deal with right now. Thank you. Thank you, chief.
Uh, I have one question before I go to committee.
Uh, chief about a month ago you graciously hosted me
and your office and we chatted about, um, the service
and you indicated to me at the time that your
chief priority was, uh, capital, uh, and that, uh, you,
you, you, you were thankful that you were successful in
terms of, uh, new operating positions. I then see this
document that, um, has a very aggressive capital, uh, obviously
needed, uh, acknowledge that. But 129 new employees 92, uh,
uniforms in 37 civilian. Could you speak to that dual
need. Sorry. Which is there a particular page at your,
your referring to. I just want to make sure I'm
commenting summary of the new position request, which is on
attachment too. Oh, okay. I don't, I don't have the
regions a report in front of me here. Give me
those numbers again, please. It speaks to, uh, the, the
desire to have 129 new positions in 2027. 37 of
which are civilian 92, which are uniformed. And then in
2028, 126 positions with 28 being uniform civilian in 98
being uniform. As always, Teresa. Comes through here.
Yeah. So, so, um, 92 of those positions are, our
frontline positions. Uh, or sorry, uniform positions. 30 of them
are frontline. We have, um, you know, and to Mr.
Glasses point, we actually lead the province in terms of
clearance rates for any of our comparators right across this
province. Our officers do an incredible job of clearing occurrences.
And they do so with some significant vacancies that exist.
One of the things that I've committed to the board
is that again, this is a projection moving forward. And
granted 2027 is the most immediate, uh, need. Um, and
we are working right now with the Ontario Police College
to see. I'm not going to come to Council with
a bunch of requests for positions I can't reasonably expect
we're going to have seats for. And so we, we
are basically saying if we fill every spot this year
and we have all the spots and we know that
we're going to be allocated, we could use up to
this number of officers. That work continues. And the board,
um, you know, you may find this hard to believe.
There's not rubber stamp everything I say. They ask some
difficult questions and they make me go back, uh, to
Mr. Glass'point produce more and more material to justify what
the asks are. Um, but I'm unapologetic about what I
think that we need in order to make sure that
we're meeting the demands. The other thing as well is
that the demands, um, continue to evolve and change. As
you can appreciate AI and technology is changing the nature
of harm and how our communities are impacted. This requires
an investment of people to do this work in addition
to the existing work that we're doing. And, uh, just
last night and, you know, we'll soon talk about this
publicly, but, you know, just last night, some of those
officers that, um, working with technology, literally saved the life
of a very young person. And, uh, I'm hoping to
share that with the community soon. Thank you. Follow -
up question chief. We heard today about the dire requirements
and shortcomings of the North Division. And in your projections,
this is your document. You don't envision having new building
until 2032. You front loaded a lot of the requests.
Is a rationale on why that's delayed so much? Uh,
because I have so many needs. This isn't a one
- off need. Um, the very first thing I have
to do is deliver adequate and effect the policing, which
means training. And there's mandatory yearly training. I am bursting
at the seams. We no longer have capacity to deal
with, uh, the issues that we have at the, uh,
at our training facility. Um, this becomes the critical need
because I could wipe out the entire service by trying
to address one issue in the north. The other, uh,
issue is, and you know, Chair Henry raises this, you've
had a solution for the North, that money was actually
added to our budget in 2023 or 24. Um, I
can't remember which year it was. At least the starting
point of it. And, um, I just didn't feel that
that was, you know, fair. It was actually taking resources
away from the things that I actually need to do
in order to accomplish other things. There's an interim solution
for Scugog. I will admit there is an interim solution.
But even if we were to fix all of those
problems, the reality is that the station doesn't mean our
needs. And for all the reasons that I heard Mr.
Neal and others have discussed certainly in all, every time
I've been in this council chamber, um, that there's a
long - term issue that, that exists in Scugog that
needs to be dealt with. And I'm trying to be
as reasonable as I can. Okay. Thank you. It's clear
there is, uh, it appears into long - term plansome
interim spending that probably deals with that issue. Um, Councillor
Crawford, you have questions for the chief. Thank you. Thank
you for your presentation. Um, my question is, and please
don't be offended. No, no. In March, uh, there was
an ask for, uh, to convert operating into capital, uh,
through, uh, I guess efficiencies. This was asked in 2025,
there was a surplus of 2. 3 million. And the
remaining was found in 2026 of 2. 1 million that
were operating, they were operating asks of those two budget
years. However, uh, they were not used. So I guess
I'm asking, uh, how did those efficiencies come about? Why
were they not hired if the dire need for, uh,
and I'm not suggesting there isn't, but I'm just saying
to two million dollars back to back in back to
back years suggests that perhaps, I don't know what that
actually suggests. So could you please explain that to me?
No, absolutely. That's a, that's a great question. So, um,
the president of the association just spoke about one of
those incidents that happened where members are attacked. It's not
the only station in which this has happened. The security
review revealed a number of different areas. And we're trying
to split up the costs over multiple budget years so
that we can accomplish all this work. The reality is
that these are things because we don't have a reserve
to draw from. We have to find money through operating,
uh, efficiencies that we find. This means that we stop
doing other things to do this instead because we have
no reserves. Something the board has directed me to do.
The reality is that the security issues that we're facing
are occurring in every single one of our buildings. There
is just so many things that have not been addressed
properly that we are continuing to have to find operating
funds to deal with it again, because we have no
reserves. So you stop hiring. So that you could do
a capital project. Sir. I'm just, just, just, just give
me one. I mean, operating his body, right? Teresa, if
you want to sit down, it's fine. Yeah. Yeah. It
was just getting the number here. We're talking about less
than one percent, right, of, of the surplus that happened.
And, um, this is the challenges that we have when
we have to wait for our budget cycle, as it's
set up. Um, is, is not efficient. And so when
we are competing with every other police service to hire
people and to get spots at the Ontario Police College
or to fill other spots, these things take time. In
the other thing, in terms of the civilian hires that
we're making, these are very specialized roles and they just
take longer to hire. So we delay some of these
and, and look for those efficiencies, but our surplus was
less than one percent. So can you explain to me
that budget cycle, why is that such an issue. Well,
because the Ontario police college has a finite number of
seats available. And every other police service is hiring. Appeal
region last year hired 300 people. That impacted how many
seats are available for us. And so when you look
at what does your what does our budget cycle. Do
for you? Like I don't it's because our money doesn't
come in at the first of the year. It comes
in throughout the year. And so when you think about
how many positions that we actually have to hire and
then you incorporate that and add to it, just the
detractors that happen, people retire, people aren't available. All of
these things impact our ability to bring people, uh, onto
our organisation. And then to deploy them, to have them
trained and then deploy them. Our ETC, our education training
centre, the training facility I'm talking about has a finite
capacity there to take on people. So we have to,
we have to stagger this hiring. All of this impacts
our ability to, uh, to bring people on. And it
also affects what that surplus looks like. It's a different
parts. It's a different amounts and throughout the year. Okay.
Um, if I may ask the chair of your board
something or no. Let's wait till we finish with the
delegations. Okay. Thank you. We'll get to the report. Chief,
I, for one, happy you had a surplus dot of
deficit. And two million bucks on 352 million is. Half
almost just a half percent of your total budget. Councillor
Pettengel. You have the floor. Thank you very much. And
through you. Thank you again, Chief. Uh, just a question
with Peal. Did they, um, approve that 10 year plan
like during the budget or after the budget, do you
know? I don't know. I didn't want to do it
this time. I was asking if they did it through.
I, I, I don't know. Okay. Um, and I'll just
had to subtly curious. I've been here for a very
short time, as you know, we've got to tour some
of the other facilities, but do you ever offer tours
of your facilities too? At every single opportunity, I have,
I offer tours. Our uni commanders offer tours and we
sort of keep track of some of them, these buildings
and a ride along, two councillo. Yeah. I did a
ride alone. I got to wear a vest. Thank you.
We won't, we will show you all of our facilities.
Thank you. I'm waiting for the new helicopter. Chair Henry.
Uh, thank you, Chair. Chief, this is going to be
a couple of kind of sideline questions. So some latitude.
I know I signed some paperwork the other day for
your court costs that you recovered cash over four times.
I think it comes four times a year. And I'm
going by memory. That's 4. 4 million dollars. But I
think memories, I'm just, but that's only half the cost.
Yes. Wasn't at one time, weren't we supposed to get
full cost recovery. I believe at one point that was
true. I've actually raised this issue with the solicitor general
and the, uh, deputy Solster General for the province. And,
uh, also with the premier of the province at a
meeting I was at. And my role of at the
Enter Association, she said, please. So, um, that represents like
almost half a percent on the regions tax base, you
know, 8. 4, 4. 4 percent. Um, you often talk
about the costs related to the new, is it the
new community safety and wellbeing program that you have to
do in the increased costs that we're downloaded on the
service by a provincial decision. Not to catch you off
guard. What's the annualization of that. Um, well, a lot
of, the one - time cost, but then the annualization
will be in the replacement of some of that equipment.
And the training is never ends, right? That the accreditation
and the time off, uh, lost by maintaining the accreditation,
that that's an ongoing cost. It'll be a good. Just
there was a million dollar costs just for the immediate
need around vests and some of the equipment. We're mandatory
in the car. Yes. And chair, uh, one more question,
one more statement. Um. I know you can't quantify this,
but the cost of managing people that have been returned
into the community under mandatory police supervision. Um, the service
picks up that cost too. Do you have any idea
what that costs would be annually. That forms part of
the common law, um, requirements of the police. I don't
have that because we have a blend of that in
to our, our daily, you know, um, work. Um, the
real cost though, Chair actually comes not when somebody is
compliant when somebody is not compliant. And then the whole
criminal charge in some would argue, well, that's what the
police are there for. Um, the other, uh, thing in
terms of offenders that are released, um, uh, federal institutions,
the cost for that as well. And, um, that's outside
of the bail, um, follow - ups that we have.
So, uh, chief, last time I sat through one of
your meetings that you addressed your board. It was about
500 people. You were a babysitting in the community that
had nowhere else to go, but back into the community.
Um, there's a class. There's, you can quantify the labour,
but I, I'm going to say it's in the millions.
It doesn't, it doesn't really matter. Uh, chief here. And
this is a political question. So you feel free just
to not answer at all. Okay. But yesterday the province
made an announcement that said that, uh, that, uh, the
Adunsum Great Things 412, 418 407 that they'd removed the
tolls. I think that advocacy came from the region of
Durham and the pressure on the MPPs. But they also
talked about no new taxes. Those costs that have been
downloaded from the province to us are actually being paid
by the property tax base. And Chair, I want to
members of this committee know that that's probably at the
minimum an additional one percent. Of our budget goes to
funding things that the province doesn't fund, which has been
downloaded back onto municipal government. That's my opinion. I'm not
going to put Council in any position. Chief, it's probably
a question you don't want to respond to. Well, I,
I will say though, Chair, and you raise the issue
about, you know, the 51 million dollars in capital that's
been invested. I, I think it's poor planning to bring
one offs to Council. This is why I've been trying
to work on this 10 year plan for a long
time. And some of that 51 million dollars actually is
reflected in the 32 and a half million dollars we
got from the province for our helicopter. Like one of
those buildings is being offset by a portion of that.
So, um, and we also received this year 3. 5
percent or 3. 5 million dollars from the provincial government
for community safety grant. Like I want to be very,
very careful that while, you know, politicians are talking about
political things. I actually am talking about the things that
impact my ability to deliver adequate and effective service, uh,
to our community. So I just don't want those things
to be conflated and suggest that we don't appreciate where
the provincial government has made significant investments in our organisation.
And chief, just to follow up on that, and I
appreciate your response, it would have been nice to get,
uh, funding on the police helicopter for longer than five
years. Because in five years, that funding comes back onto
the tax base of the region of Durham, correct? Yes.
But we, we've been doing that for 26 years. And
so we're winding down the other helicopter program so that
we minimize the impact. But I'm just implying that the
gifts come with a price tag. Thank you. Uh, Councillor
Neal. John, he there.
A gold Council Mayor Collier and John, I'll put you
on next. Chair. I don't have questions for the chief,
but I would like to speak to the report. Remember
be the appropriate. We've got to get to the report
soon as the questions are done. Thank you. Councillor Neal.
Put your request in again, please. Don't touch anything.
One more time. Last chance. Please hit your request button.
Is he on the screen? Councillor Neal, you have the
floor. Yeah. Thanks Mr. Chair. To the chief. You know,
I want to thank you because, uh, Chris Bowie and
Superintendent Sateron in our area met with my community, uh,
while back on Friday night, which was great. But the
questions at North Quadrant in Oshawa. Years ago, of course,
the first regional chief was John Jenkins and now we
had Dave Edwards and, uh, chief McAlline finds and so
forth. But it seemed that there used to be a
police presence at the boys and girls clubs when I
was growing up at the schools. And now we have
a number of schools being built. It seems that the
youth are being disconnected for some reason. That's the feeling
of there. I'm just wondering, you don't explicitly say in
this paper, uh, how we can, uh, get to the
community and to the youth. And I know we have,
we've had issues out there in regards to retail and
theft and whatnot. What's your feelings on that. Well, through
the chair. Thank you for the question, Councillor Neal. I'll
say this. My report actually, uh, maybe not the region's
report. My presentation spoke to the services that we're going
to deliver. And one of the important, uh, investments that
we're making, uh, as it relates to the, um, facilities
is a meeting space with the public. Um, places where
we can engage with the public where we can run
events and, uh, and, and, and, you know, really, uh,
collaborate with the community, identifying what the problems are and
working on them. Um, in terms of the services that
are being delivered out of our buildings, we simply don't
have room for things like school days on officers and
expanded community response officers. Um, the kind of work that,
um, is grounded in a facility that is built to
accommodate those services that are being delivered 54 years have
passed since the Oshawa station was built and policing is
not recognisable to any of the members who were there
doing that at the time when that station opened. Okay.
Thank you. Okay. That completes the, uh, questions chief. Thank
you. Uh, we have a report from Finance and Administration
of Finance. That reads and follows the Finance Administration recommends
the Regional Council. The report be received for information. Um,
I do have a couple of questions. And I know,
uh, other members of committee do. My first question, um,
to. The commissioner last night on global Durham. Um, I
guess I'm one of the few that watch it. I
don't know. Um, there was a story about this document
and the impact on, on, um, taxes, uh, there was
also a CBC story over the course of the weekend.
And it references that the tax increase for 2027 is
anticipated to be between nine and 10 and a half
percent. I guess you wouldn't know where they got those
numbers, but commissioner, could you speak to help potentially they
could have got those numbers. Uh, so through to the
chair, um, the forecast based on the forecast before committee
today, the 2027 forecasted overall property tax increase for police.
And that's comprehensive of the capital of the operating and
the base pressures is 4. 6 to percent. We're still,
uh, in early stages of our regional budget, um, but
looking at what we're currently facing, the only 1 point
2 percent related to the 2026 budget, uh, that has
an impact on 27. There's also the base budget pressures
as well, which we're still in the process of, of,
um, of, of modelling. Those typically tend to be in
the range of three to four and a half percent
and conservation authorities typically their requests are 0. 02 percent
on the overall levy as well. So if you add
those together, that gets you in the ballpark. I will
say that that doesn't include any service enhancements for the
region side. And certainly as we do with all of
our budget processes every year, we look at all opportunities
to be able to reduce that impact down. It's very
early days for us, for regional budget for the regional
overall regional budget forecast at this point in time. Thank
you. I'll go to the committee member First, just to
be clear, we don't have a motion at this point.
We're asking questions before we get to a motion because
I really think there's a couple of options for a
motion. The staff recommendations to receive for information. Uh, which
means it'll go to council with Billy No Direction and
in essence, no action. So it would, as Good Mayor
would say, punts it till next year. So I think
that's the effect of what the motion is. So I
want to get through the questions first. Chair Henry, you
have the floor. Well, Chair, I actually have a motion.
Okay. So, um, I will give you a motion to
refer this to the 27 budget. Okay. Um. I need
a second or for the motion. Uh, Councillor Pattern Gial.
And I'd like to speak to it. Please do. You
have the four chair. And this, this is important and
a significant ask. I think by moving it directly to
the budget, then our staff and the police services can
work together. Uh, the chief, our CAO, our respective finance
teams to bring, uh, bring this to the budget with
the work that needed is needed to be done. Uh,
it is, it is imperative. And I understand the needs
to meet the challenges, the services haven't. But to receive
it for information just slows it down. I think by
moving it to the budget, it now becomes an action
item. It would be moved through this committee directly to
the budget and the work could start literally tomorrow. So
for clarity, you're not. Suggesting a go - to council?
No, I'm referring it directly to the budget from this
committee. All right. Um, the, the, um. Motion is in
order because it's not an amendment. So it is the
motion of standing. I'm going to go the committee first.
And then, um, the, uh, our, our guests. So Councillor
Yamada, you're, uh, you have the floor. Thank you, Mr.
Chair. And, uh, good morning. I've got a few questions
for staff. Um, first off, the annual repayment limit, uh.
What's the region's current projected, um, annual repayment limit utilization
before the strategy, police strategies added through your staff. So,
uh, through the chair, uh, to Councillor Yamada, the annual
repayment limit. So, uh, what was generally forecasted with including
the police were in the neighbourhood of between 80 to
85 percent of our annual repayment limit. What I will
say though is that there's additional modelling that we're undertaking
on that annual repayment limit. So typically, um, as Council
is aware, we're very, we have very little borrowings. So,
uh, our annual repayment limit. We have been nowhere near
it. However, with the debt forecast for regional services and
with police services, we have significant forecasted debt into the
tune of about 5 billion dollars over the course of
the next 10 years. When we look at annual repayment
limit, we also need to include not just the debt
borrowings that we're going to have, but also our contingent
liabilities. So that includes things like long - term leases.
Uh, that also includes other types of loans. For example,
with our housing properties where we're also, um, potentially, um,
one of those that may have to step in to
support those loans. And there's, um, the rationale for why
that may be part of our contingent liability as well.
So I guess what I'm saying is we're at 80
to 85 with just the debt before any contingent liabilities.
We're doing some additional investigative work with respect to what
those contingent liabilities may look like. Um, as well, there
is also potential provincial legislation around water and sewer infrastructure
that will have potential impacts on our ARL or our
annual repayment limit calculation. So a bit of a cautionary
to that range of about 80 to 85 percent Okay.
Thank you. Supplementary through you, Mr. Chair. So the additional
work that you're doing with that sort of take into
account sort of, um, low interest scenarios, moderate and high
interest scenarios. If the interest rates are starting to fluctuate.
Yes. So certainly we've modelled different terms. We've modelled different
interest rates for the dot borrowings as well. And that's
what gives us that range of 80 to 85. The
contingent liabilities will put us higher, um, because we're going
to be adding additional, uh, liabilities to that calculation. Again,
through you, Mr. Chair supplementary. And would additional, uh, work
also look at, um, property tax pressures that could result
from DC reductions, uh, afforded by or policies coming out
of the province. So through you, that's an excellent question.
Councillor Yamada. So right now our modelling includes based on
our forecast. It takes the debt that was in our
2026, uh, to 2035 capital plan, which contemplated, um, DCs
at the time based on our current debt forecast, or
sorry, our current capital DC forecast. If there was some
change to DC legislation, that required additional debt in order
to fund those growth - related capital projects that would
be an additional pressure raising our ARL. Okay. And so
that would be any DC reductions would be coming out
of, uh, further debt, not added onto taxpayers. It would
depend on what it, on what the capital works are.
Certainly we would look for all non - debt sources,
but the potential magnitude of those, especially on the water
and sewer slide may result in additional debt. So with
the 2026 Capitol budget, we saw increased step forecasts on
the water and sewer fund because of the previous changes
to the DC legislation. So we really saw significant increase
in our debt forecast there. If there any further changes,
we anticipate it will impact debt as well, just because
annual increases to pay for that level of infrastructure, uh,
especially on the water and suicide. You just couldn't raise
that in annual increases on a yearly basis. You need
to spread it out and you do that through debt
issuance. Okay. And, and I guess so we've modelled our,
our financing, uh, based on high growth scenarios. Are we
looking at sort of a moderate or lore growth scenario
as well. So certainly on the region, Mr. Chair. Sorry
through the chair. So, uh, certainly, um, when we look
at, uh, for regional infrastructure, when we look at our
growth forecast, we look at variations in growth levels when
we, when we bring forward our capital plans. So that
impacts certainly transit. It also impacts some of like the
road infrastructure. The water and sewer is a little bit
more difficult because we're pre - building a lot of
that infrastructure, uh, but certainly when we're, we're doing our
growth modelling, we're looking at, uh, both plus and minus
scenarios for modelling growth. Thank you. Um, further question, uh,
through you, Mr. Chair. Has the region or staff speak
to how they've been formally advocating for capital funding funding
or dedicated operating supports for, uh, DERM region police? I
don't know. Maybe chief I should have asked this question
when you were up there. Does the chief come with
us to AIMO and to these other conferences? Do we
do delegations with, um, the chief, uh, to advance greater
funding? Because I think we all understand that there was
a, uh, a period of time where there was no
additional hires, so on and so forth. And now we're
playing catch up. Uh, with all the other pressures that
we do see, um, I'd like to understand what that's
looked like and sort of where that's going to be
going forward. Through you, Mr. Chair. We do undertake some
advocacy on behalf of accessing costs for policing as we
do various delegations at EMO FCM and other opportunities. We
rarely do it in partnership with DRPS, although they are
fully informed, uh, our government relations team. Pardon? Why is
that? It's just never evolved that way. And to be
honest, the various associations associated with police services are very
strong advocates and often appear at those events and their
own delegations. So we tend to focus on where we
need the biggest impact on other regional programs. To date,
that's tense to be on infrastructure to facilitate the provision
of housing and dollars to, uh, improve our social housing
and supportive hosting supply, some of which I do have
to highlight is beyond 60 years old. Are we going
to be, um, advocating for the Oshawa police campus and
funding supports, uh, to the Prevential or federal governance and
what would that look like? At this point, that is
not on our list. I believe that project has to
come forward to Council. And until we have Council approval,
it would not fall to staff to advocate for any
additional funding. All right.
Thank you very much. Thank you. Oh, one further question,
Mr. Chair. Uh, just. I'm trying to understand too. The
front ending of the taxes, um, or the tax increases,
I think it's, uh, 57, uh, is front ended in
the first four years. I'm trying to understand why that
is. That's a hard question for our staff to answer
chief. Do you want to try to come back and
answer that one? I think you are articulated. The need
is now. Yeah. So it's a lot of money in
the first couple of years. I will, uh, admit, but
we're talking about three different needs in the Oshawa campus.
All critical needs. And so this is to how to
get, this is about getting that project started. The reality
is that these things should have been, uh, spread out
over the last 10 years. And they haven't. And it
hasn't been addressed. And so, um, the, the upfront costs
are, are what they are. And, um, this is because
we, uh, with the right location through our, uh, RFI,
we learned a lot of things about what is available
in this region here and how we can move this
forward. And all of these things are critical needs. I
don't know how much more plane to say that. Okay.
Thank you, chief. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, I'm staying
with the committee before I go to our guests. So
Councillor Crawford, do you have the floor? Thank you. Um,
I'm not sure who this goes to. It's on attachment
three. I think it's from the police, but I'm not
like a hundred percent sure I see that there's appending,
uh, request. In 2026. Yeah. Commissioner can answer. Okay. Can
you give me some background on that. Uh, so through
the chair, this is referring to the for the balance
maybe that are listening. This refers to the Oshawa campus
on the Capitol plan upon requests for 93. 5 million
dollars So this is for the Oshawa campus. This is
the money to start this project. It includes land. It
also includes design, uh, work as well. My, uh, my
understanding is that the, um, the police board will be,
um, considering a report at there may meeting, um, with
a subsequent request in through Council at June relating to
this project. But it is to start that initial investment
for the Oshawa campus. Okay. Um. All right. I asked
very, very same question. Okay. Thank you. Thanks. Okay. Let's
find thank you. Sure. Uh, Mayor Collier. On the report.
Uh, I'll speak to both the motion and a report.
Sorry. My notes are on emotion and a report. Thank
you, Chair. Uh, and I will be brief. I think
the chief Mr. Tumlins have very thoroughed their delegations. To
the motion on the floor, um, and Councillor Crawford started
to ask about this DRPS requires 93 million dollars in
2026 for the Oshawa campus. Referring this matter to the
2027 budgets. There's no purpose other than to continue what
every council has done thus far, which is to ignore
the urgency of the matters today. And ensure that these
matters continue to decline and become even more expensive to
the taxpayer going forward. At the same time, this puts
DRPS in the region at risk by not allowing the
board to provide adequate policing. For example, potential ministry of
labour investigations that you heard today and potential arbitration. These
capital expenditures are not new. Uh, these capital numbers have
appeared in every capital budget going back to at least
2010 when I was versempointed to the Finance Committee in
this Council. I remember a police station in North Oshawa
for 40 million dollars back in 2010 was on the
budget. It might still be in the Capitol budget for
all I know, but just kept pushing out and pushing
out. It's now 125 million dollars. If that was built
today. The amounts to build these buildings has increased significantly
due to 15 years of regional Council pushing projects out
year after year. And it could be longer. I only
go back to 2010 here. What's changed is that in
December, 2024, via report 2024 COW - 53, this council
requested that DRPS develop a multi - year service and
financing study for policing. I'll quote, stop be directed to
undertake a minimum 10 - year operating capital dermal region
police service and finances strategy and partnership with the Durham
Regional Police Service Board. And the Durham Regional Police Service
staff in order to provide recommendations on a multi -
year funding strategy to address operating capital impacts of the
new community safety and policing Act 2019. And the state
of good repair of capital facilities recognised in the need
for stability and predictability to property taxpayers and that the
DERM regional police service board through the chief of police
be requested to direct Durham Regional Police Service staff to
provide all necessary input and information. We've done that. That
report is before you today as requested by this Council.
I wish the report was before Finance a year ago.
When it was ready. But it is what it is
at this point. I can't talk to the timing. Most
other departments at this region have originally approved 10 -
year capital budget. And DRPS should be given the same
consideration as especially as this is the direction of this
Council. Again, this is before you at your request and
DRPS needs to be able to plan long - term
with consistent, reliable funding, and not have to keep coming
to this committee with one - off requests as we've
had to do for the last several years. As to
the fact there is an election this year. Politics shouldn't
enter into your decision today. This decision is going to
get any easier or any cheaper going forward. The need
for approval of the Scapil's strategy is now it is
urgent receiving for information as suggested is a cop out.
Excuse upon, please. But this is exactly what's been happening
for 15 years and there will be repercussions. But supporting
this motion to refer is no different. The responsible decision
today is to defeat the motion on the floor and
approve the plan to allow us to move forward for
the benefit of the region. I ask that a member
of committee please move an amendment once this is defeated
to approve and that you support. Thank you for your
consideration. Thank you, Mayor. Councillor Nicholson. Councillor Nicholson, can you
put a request in again? Do you hear me now?
Yeah. You have the floor, Brian. Yeah. Thank you. I
actually came to the meeting just to watch and to
learn and hear the comments, uh, but the motion by,
uh, Cher Henry has caused me great concern. Uh, at
this point in time, if the matter goes to Council,
all 28, uh, members of the Council who are elected
in the chair will have an opportunity to discuss it
and offer their viewpoint. The motion to send this to
the budget gags 20 members of this council. It takes
away our ability to discuss and vote on this proposed
submission from the DRPS. I don't understand why a chair
of Durham Region would move a motion. To basically limit
the decision on this report is simply eight members of
the Council. Um, I think this is too important an
issue. To be foisted off to, uh, another budget and
another council without allowing this council the opportunity to discuss
and offer its comments on the report. Um, as mayor
Connor made very clear, we asked as a council for
this report. The DERM regional police service has provided the
answers that we asked for. But then not to allow
members of council the opportunity to discuss what they have
provided to us, I believe is not a very Democratic
approach. Um, we're very vocal recently. Are going to against
attacks on Democracy from the provincial level. Regarding the elections
of chairs. Uh, but if we're going to ignore Democracy
and we're going to simply say eight people will have
the right to vote on this 20 others will not
have the right to speak on this. Um, that really
sends a mixed message to everybody. Um, what I've heard
today and just to speak very briefly to the report,
um, uh, I echo Councillor or mayor Collier said that,
you know, we, we should be dealing with the need
and adopting the plan. But what we're missing here is,
uh, the financing. You know, what, what is clear to
me. From, uh, all the debates we've had on this
is that they put the police funding model in the
province, Ontario is broken. It was established 50, 60 years
ago when most policing was local. But so much of
the costs of our police department. Are driven by provincial
decisions. Federal Decisions, societal issues, academic issues is being forced
to pay for 100 percent. Of the police and costs.
And that's simply not tenable. What we need is to
start the process of discussion with the province and the
federal government to come up with a new funding model
that doesn't dumply the entire cost of policing on the
regional property taxpayer. We can't even start that process if
the process doesn't get to Council. If we simply refer
to a budget, uh, we continue to apportion the seats
on this lifeboat rather than trying to find a way
to avoid the iceberg. Uh, we need better than this.
We need a chance to have a healthy debate on
the future of this project on where we're going to
move forward on funding strategies to give our steps some
direction. And we can't do that if this motion carries
to simply fois it off to the next Council and
abandon our elected duties. So I asked this committee, please
defeat, uh, Chair Henry's motion. Send it to Council. We
can have a Folsom and healthy debate there. And we
can give directions to our staff to move forward. Thank
you. Thank you, Councillor. Uh, let the records say till
11, 10 that I agree with you. Uh, not that
it's undemocratic, but I think that, uh, Council should have
a position on this. Um, I have been trying to
get a path forward for all of us. And, uh,
I think there is a path forward in regards to,
uh, approving a document in principle allowing, uh, the planning
to continue, uh, allowing for the, uh, Oshawa thing to
come, um, as a one - off. And to begin
to address the compelling arguments of the President as well
as the chief today. So, uh, I will not be
supporting the referral to budget. Um, I will support something
going to Council and I will be, um, trying to
get a middle ground. I don't think it's a cop
out. Intended that my friend Mayor Colliers mentioned approving something
in principle is a significant undertaking when you're talking about
a billion to two billion dollars and worrying about the
funding and funding commitment later on, I think, is, is
also, um, important because after November 15th, we're in a
new whole new world. With the Regional Chair who potentially
has, he or she has the potential to, uh, propose
a budget, which may or may or may not include,
uh, funding for this. So that's why I think, uh,
proving it in principle so that the Council has taken
a position. And then worrying about funding, uh, in the
mechanism that will be in under the new regime, uh,
in, in post November 15th and into 2027. I see
Councillor Crawford, you are back on my list as is
Councillor Pentago. So I'll go back to you. Councillor Crawford,
you floor. Thank you. Um, I'm a little confused by
the motion. I understand the motion, but, uh, wasn't it
regional staff that brought this report to us on Friday.
Am I right? Yes. Well, the report is actually before
you today. The report was published on Friday with the
agenda for the Finance and Admin Committee, which is where
we are today. But we had a special meeting Friday
talking about this. Let's be clear. The report, the meeting
on Friday. Was the police board and the chiefs meeting.
This is the response from our Administration to this committee.
Okay. Cause it seemed like the chief was a bit
surprised by the Friday meeting. I could be wrong. But
am I maybe I'm not. Um, so I don't understand
if, if we brought it on Friday, now we're bumping
it to 2027. Why did we even through you, Mr.
Chair? The rapport on Friday was received for information. And
in the body of the Report, it did talk about
it being considered as part of the 2027 budget process
as a result of various changes provincially with development charges,
the impact of which we're not currently aware, but we
know it will be material. The fact that we will
be going to an appointed chair with strong share powers.
And therefore, a lead role in the budget process and
also given the magnitude of the 10 year requirements. We
thought it very important that it go to the new
council once we have clear direction from the appointed chair.
Okay. Um, so I do want to thank the chief
for speaking with me last night. We had a very
good conversation. And, uh, I do understand that, um, anything.
Because in 36 hours, we're going to be shutting down
regional council and we won't be bringing it back up
again until November. So trying to get anything done is
going to be June meeting. Huh? We have a June
meeting. Oh, no, I know that. But I mean, it's
still what we're, just give me the, the leeway here.
I understand. I understand the timelines. It makes it difficult
if for one - offs, as you were suggesting, uh,
when your timelines are tight. And nothing immunicipal government moves
quickly. So I would like to know, uh, if the
request for 2026 was approved today, what does that do
to the tax base. Can we mention there? Can you
speak to the funding mechanism for the one - off
ask that we'll be getting in June. Council. Nicole. Oh,
we can't commit the new council. Sure, what? Sorry.
Sorry. I just checked with our clerk. We could not
outright approve this as it would give in the magnitude.
We could not commit a new council to that. Did
I reflect? Well, I'm just trying to understand what the,
with the impact is. That's all. It's looking confused. Yeah.
No, I'm talking like this pending request right here. One
meeting. Commissioner, do you want to speak to the one
- off request that's apparently coming in June and the
funding. Go ahead. Okay. Uh, so through, through the chair.
So, um, certainly pre - budget approval requests are not,
this Council can't approve a pre - budget approval. An
unbudgeted capital request. Those can be approved by this Council.
If it's an in - year request for this year,
um, is my understanding. Right. And then, and this chart.
Indicates that the one off is a 2026 expense, which
this council has the ability to prove. So in terms
of, can I, sorry, through the chair. So in terms
of the incremental impact to the 2027 levy resulting from
that one capital item, the estimated impact of that is
about 3. 7 million dollars. And percentage. Can you, can
you, sorry, I work. That's the point four percent is
that that's what the nine million bucks. Is wonderful. And
that's land. I don't know what it is. Cause I
haven't, it's coming in June, obviously. So I'm assuming that's
land. If my understanding is, and police are still, again,
they're finalising their report. So they'll be final numbers that
will come from that. But based on the numbers we
have available now, it would include land and design. A
portion of design. So effectively, if we bump this entire
budget to 2027, 2026 is lost. Is that correct? Is
that what I'm hearing? So I ask for the one
- off is for this Fiscal year. So 2026. By
bumping it to 2027, 2026 is still alive. As of
June. One ask would still be available for approvals in
the 2026 budget. What the CEO said is we can't
commit. Expenditures for the next council. Understood. Okay. Thank you.
I just want to clarification on that. Thank you. Councillor
Pettengeal, you have the floor again. Thank you very much.
And through you. I mean, I heard what Councillor Nicholson
said. I have no issue with this going to all
of Council. However, how we will result from that will
still very likely be, um, either to accept it in,
in principle or to send it to the budget. Same
end. So if everyone wants to weigh in on that
fight or approve the plan. Yes. Although, you know, I
did look up since the chief spoke about it peal
region did do it through their budget. Um, I believe
that when a group is asked to create a strategy
and then come back comes back with a report, it
still then goes through the budget process. I think that's
a proper procedure. Um, we need to see what that
looks like over time. Um, so I don't know how
that really changes. This motion that's on the floor right
now, but. It will likely end the same at Council
that they would approve to send it to budget. I
think that's the most likely. And this way, this actions
it in a way it does it prove it. It
says, thank you very much for that report. Now let's
put it through the budget process. And, and see where
the details led and the details are yet unknown to
approve this. Right now with the amount of unknowns would
not be responsible in my position. Okay. I think that
concludes the list. Oh, Councillor Yamada, you want the floor
again. Thank you. Um, question of clarity. So would we
then be able to move, I guess, um, a refined,
um, motion or referral where we, um, that we approve
the 2026 ask and refer, um, the remainder 2027, the
2036. To the budget. The 2026 ask is not in
front of us. And we'll be at in June. That's,
okay. Thank you. Thank you. That's all folks. I do
have a properly moved motion and seconded to refer this
to the 2027 budget. I have. Seven members. So a
recorded vote has been requested by chair Henry. Councillor Wu
and Councillor Leahy are online. So Madam Clerk, can we
call the role? This is to refer to the 2027
budget.
And. I believe Councillor McDougall. Who hasn't voted. Uh, Councillor
McDougal's at a medical appointment.
Okay. The motion has carried then. Um. So I'm not
quite sure. The action now is that it's been referred
to the 2027 budget. The one offs would continue and
be welcomed for consideration. Uh, and I'm sure the chair
of the police board will have some discussions with the
clerk about other options. So, um, we have one more
item for a business today. And that is the confidential
report. There is a recommendation to authorize the report. Is
there need to go in camera. Move by chair Henry?
Seconded by Councillor Crawford. To approve the actions in camera.
All those in favor. Oppose that Adams carried any business.
A motion to adjourn would be in order. Move by
chair Henry second by Councillor Crawford. That we adjourn all
those in favor. That's approved. Thank you.