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Good morning everybody. I'm going to call the Finance and

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Administration Committee of Tuesday, May 12th to order. Madam Clerk.

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Can we do a roll call, please?

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We have quorum. Any Declarations of interest. Being none, I'm

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going to start with an announcement. I want to introduce

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and welcome Glenn D's. The region's new director of Business

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Plans and Budgets. Welcome Glenn. Glen has been with the

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region for about two months now, and he joins our

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team from North Humberton County, where we're serving as interim

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CAO. Prior to that, he was involved in very senior

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leadership roles in the Finance, including Director of Finance and

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Treasurer, and served a director of health and human services

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within the community and social services. Here at the region,

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Glen will play a critical part in our annual business

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planning and budget process. Welcome to this meeting. And advancing

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long - term financial strategies, ensuring we remain at the

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forefront of best practices and supporting the region's strategic direction

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in Corva values. Members of the committee, and I want

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to hopefully join me in welcoming Glenn to the region.

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Welcome to Glenn. Adoption is the minutes. Moved by Councillor

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McDougal, second by Councillor Crawford, approval the minutes of Finance

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Meeting of April 14th, as well as the closed Financial

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Financing Committee meeting of the same date. Any questions, comments,

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corrections? Being none, Paul's in favor. Opposed that items carried.

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There are no statutory public meetings. There are no presentations.

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We have two delegations, and then the chief will speak

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with opening comments on the report. And then we'll have

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go through the reports. Our first delegation is from Andrew

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Tummings, who is the president of the Durham Regional Police

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Association. Frequent visitor to our chamber. So Andrew, welcome. Thank

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you, Coven for having me. I'm here to speak to

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you today on behalf of the members that I represent.

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I'd like to first take this opportunity to thank the

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passing of the DRPS budget, but now we're here to

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talk about the Capitol Plan. And that capital plan is

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very important in a number of ways. Durham is a

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area that is very unique to all the other police

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departments in the area. The majority of our members live

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in Durham region. The 1500 members that I represent are

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taxpayers in this region. They understand the pressures that come

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with this budget being passed in a way that will

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cause an increase in the taxes they pay. I'm not

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here to lay blame on anybody for anything that's happened

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in the past, but there has been very little that

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has been done to help us move forward in these

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buildings. We have buildings where you can't drink the water.

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We have buildings that are 54 years old and have

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mold and are not safe for our employees to work

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at. These are not just issues of leaky roof that

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needs repairing. These are fundamental issues that members need to

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have looked after. Everyone in this room is well aware

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that the election coming up. We're all aware that that

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means that there is a bigger pressure on the people

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that are running. The issue we have with this is

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if we do not deal with it now, we are

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doing what numerous other councils have done before, and we're

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kicking the can down the road. We have been the

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oversight that has happened as caused us issues. We have

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a range that is too short for us to fire

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rifles in. Rifles that we have to be qualified with

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every year. The province mandates that we have these qualifications.

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So we have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to

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put these members and an outdoor range in North Durham

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that were already receiving complaints about the gunfire is too

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loud. We are putting band - aids on problems that

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all we are doing is making it so that there

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can't be fixes. There has to be a fixed. And

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I understand that these pressures are financial and that everybody

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understands that money is an issue, especially at this time.

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But we are not asking for something that is looking

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to fix the problem today. It's a 10 - year

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plan. And if we don't do it now, we are

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just putting that off, and it only increases the issues

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of the funding. We can't just sit back and say,

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this isn't going to work now. We are the fastest

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grow - in region in the province. We ran a

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survey, and we sent it out to the members of

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the Durham region to find out what is one of

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their top priorities. Public safety is a top priority. I

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know that everyone that is in the room are logged

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on that is going to be running in the fall

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will be addressing public safety as one of your top

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priorities to the community. You cannot sit and say the

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public safety is your number one priority, the DRPS budget

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was great. That's what gets us boots on the ground.

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That's what gives us new units, gives us the ability

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to move forward with we can do it. It doesn't

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help us if we are in antiquated buildings. If we

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can't even be safe in our own buildings, how do

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we feel that we're supporting the public. Everyone knows that

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domestic violence is one of the top priorities of the

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Durham Region Police. It's on the rise across the country.

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It is a horrible crime, and the victims in it

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have a hard time coming forward because it is life

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- altering when you make that claim. So if you

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finally taken the step to want to do that, now

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you want to go to the Oshawa station and you

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want to report that to the police. We don't have

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a dedicated parking lot. So you have to find spots

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on the street to be able to come in and

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talk to the police. This is a crime that affects

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your family and affects all your relatives in that. You

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will split people up over this crime. You were looking

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for any reason not to come forward with this report.

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If we can't even give you a secure area to

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come to a facility and report it, what are we

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doing for the public. And then if you can find

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a building, a parking spot, you're coming into a building

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that is 54 years old. This building is far, far

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newer than any of the facilities that my members are

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currently working at, and it's had how many facelifts, because

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you've outgrown the space. That's not a shot at anybody

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of this shouldn't happen. It had to happen. You needed

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to revamp this area. I'll just close with saying, I'm

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here because like you, I represent people. And the people

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I represent are my members, and they're watching me, and

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they're watching everybody in this room. They are voting members

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of their Durham region, and we need to step up

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and act this time and not kick it down the

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road. Thank you. Thank you. Andrew, can you stay there?

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I'm sure there's some questions. No problem, sorry. I do

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have one. Yes. If members of the committee or members

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elsewhere have, please put your request to speak. I see

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Chair Colliers. My question is in regards to what collaboration

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was done in regards to the services priorities. Were you

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involved in it was a year issue as a health

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- to - safety top of bind. And if you

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were to pick. Or identify priorities, would it be. Safety

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at Oshawa? Would it be water in New York, or

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in the north? How were you involved in the formation

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of this report. I've been involved in it since I

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became president. Like I said, these are not new issues.

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These are issues that date back 10, 15 years. The

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North Durham Station started when I did. So that was

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26 years ago. We have been well aware of the

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issues from day one at that division. Numerous presidents have

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talked about the problems. This command has been very forthright

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in coming to me and asking me, what is our

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concerns? To frankly, to give you one to say, here's

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my number one priority. That time has came and gone,

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because now my priorities are we need everything looked into,

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because we've kicked the can down the road so many

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times. There's so many problems that we can't just pick

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one. The safety of my members in Oshawa, I know

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the chief has brought this up to you. I have

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in passing before. Our own personal vehicles have to be

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stored in a lot that is rented that we can't

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fence. Our vehicles are damaged on a regular basis, whether

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it's keyed, whether nuts have been loosened on wheels, where

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a member had the tire come off on their way

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home on the 115. These are not issues that are

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new. There are issues that have been going on, and

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we need to have them addressed. Thank you. Committee members

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First Councillor MacDougal. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for

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Presentation and Delegating today. Um, I do have to ask

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first off, cause I'm a little bit sensitive about this

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professionally speaking. Are you encouraging your members to go into

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an unsafe work environment. We are trying to make sure

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that they are not in an unsafe work environment. And

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we have been. You got your hand up, you want

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them to stop, I stopped. Thank you. Are you encouraging

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your members to go into an unsafe work environment. No.

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So they shouldn't go into an unsafe work environment. No.

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So if the North Division is unsafe. They shouldn't be

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going in. If that is the direction that we want

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to take, then I will demand that. We are trying,

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we are not. We are not anyone that can strike.

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That's not what we can do. All we can do

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is comply and then bring it to you that there

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needs to be something fixed. If the direction needs to

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be that I need to go to the labour board,

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the Ministry of Labour to fix these problems, I will.

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But that is not what I'm trying to do here.

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We have tried and are trying to work with you

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to make this a better spot. Water is brought in

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to the division so the members can have water to

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drink. The fact of the matter is to pay to

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have water trucked in to a building, cost money that

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comes out of a police budget. The same as to

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try to fix a problem of water in a regional

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building to come out of a police budget means that

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that's less officers on the road for me. It's a

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regional problem, it's a regional building to region needs to

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fix it. Okay, thank you. So through you, this is

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a budgetary issue regarding water. And numerous other things, yes.

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Okay, very good. Um. I'm fully in support of the

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idea of this tenure plan, of eight, 10 year plan.

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I don't know if this is exactly the one or

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not, and I'm sure there can always be changes to

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plants. Councillor. Thank you. Questions to the Delegation. Question. So

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the question is, where was this 10 - year plan

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like 105 days ago when we approved the police budget.

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I don't think that. The plan has been out there

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for a number of times and it's been put off

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numbers of times. I think that question's more appropriate. Okay.

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Put to the chief or the CEO or the commissioner,

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and we'll have an opportunity to do that. Okay, thank

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you. Thank you for the questions on the Delegate. No,

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that's all. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.

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Thank you. Councillor Pettengell. Thank you very much. And through

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you. With regards to the North Division building, we understand

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that there isn't potable water. And I see bottled water

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in all of our facilities all the time. I mean,

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is that water good enough for washing hands? Or how

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bad is it? We have water trucked in to that

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building in order to shower. Okay. What are the other,

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and first of all, do you know what the general

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cost of that water being taken in every year, just

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ballpark figure? Honestly, that would be a question better suited

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for the chief because I'm not aware of the finances

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of it. I don't know if it's like 10, 000

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dollars a year. I couldn't even hazard a guess what

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it is, but I can tell you that if it's

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10, 000, that's where we're talking about of that's 10,

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000 dollars every month that could be better utilised if

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we were in a location or had the ability not

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to have to spend that 10, 000 every month. Oh

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no, I'm sure. And I don't know how much it

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costs definitely to fix potable water issues. I know that

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with First Nations, it seems to be impossible, right? We

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never get those things fixed. What are the other. I'm

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just going to quick ask, what are the other main

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problems with that facility? And thirdly, when you did an

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overall assessment on the buildings, who did you hire to

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make that assessment and put the value on it. Um,

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we've had assessments safety assessments done in the last year,

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almost a year now, to say what are some of

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the conditions in the building. Now. President's before me and

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myself knew some of these problems and have been advocating

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for them for a long time. Number one on our

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list has always been fencing around our properties. And the

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safety that brought it in also spoke of better lighting

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cameras. We have to realise, and I know that some

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members of the public think that, well, okay, we're police

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officers were armed so we can look after ourselves. And

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I get that. But everybody has the right to feel

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safe in their own work environment. I shouldn't have to

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walk out of a building and be aware of do

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00:30:06,284 --> 00:30:09,484
I need to be on duty aware of my situations

240
00:30:09,505 --> 00:30:12,044
in my own parking lot. Because then it's making it

241
00:30:12,305 --> 00:30:15,564
that my mental health is always at the forum of

242
00:30:15,604 --> 00:30:19,004
it. Now the company that we hired, um, that was

243
00:30:19,004 --> 00:30:21,684
not the association that hired it was the service. So

244
00:30:21,684 --> 00:30:24,284
again, I can't tell you the name. I have seen

245
00:30:24,324 --> 00:30:27,564
the reports. And we are frankly try and get them

246
00:30:27,585 --> 00:30:31,724
to move forward with that. Okay. Thank you. I guess

247
00:30:32,065 --> 00:30:36,644
from a municipal perspective, you know, an asset management, we

248
00:30:36,644 --> 00:30:41,164
have our buildings viewed, scrutinized by, you know, an engineer

249
00:30:41,265 --> 00:30:43,644
every year. And those costs come forward to the next

250
00:30:43,665 --> 00:30:45,324
budget and we know exactly what we have to do

251
00:30:45,364 --> 00:30:50,284
to keep that building in a fair condition. So I

252
00:30:50,284 --> 00:30:54,764
just wondered, are the police buildings part of the regional

253
00:30:55,105 --> 00:30:58,844
asset management in the same way? Do they get examined

254
00:30:59,985 --> 00:31:07,964
yearly or biannually? I guess that's a question to you.

255
00:31:08,004 --> 00:31:10,284
I'll let the commissioner answer it, although we shouldn't be

256
00:31:10,305 --> 00:31:15,724
doing Q and AR delegate, but you speak to us

257
00:31:15,745 --> 00:31:19,084
at management. So through you, the chair. So as part

258
00:31:19,084 --> 00:31:22,684
of the regions asset management program, the police form part

259
00:31:22,684 --> 00:31:26,284
of our asset management program, uh, and there is reviews

260
00:31:26,305 --> 00:31:30,124
that were done for by ways of review that the

261
00:31:30,465 --> 00:31:33,724
delegate spoke to in terms of assessments of their properties

262
00:31:33,985 --> 00:31:39,084
that help inform investment decisions. Okay. So stuff sees those

263
00:31:39,265 --> 00:31:43,084
reports and inspections every year or however, often they are

264
00:31:43,084 --> 00:31:47,574
done. And then theoretically. Improvements that are made to those

265
00:31:47,835 --> 00:31:53,342
very facilities would show up in the next budget. So

266
00:31:53,923 --> 00:31:56,702
through the chair, it's a little bit different with the

267
00:31:56,963 --> 00:32:02,782
service. So, um, the, um, the review that the delegate

268
00:32:02,782 --> 00:32:05,742
was speaking to this, I'll call it a security review

269
00:32:05,923 --> 00:32:08,702
that was done. That was my understanding was taken on

270
00:32:08,702 --> 00:32:11,742
by the service, uh, and that request was brought forward

271
00:32:11,763 --> 00:32:16,302
to this Council for approval earlier on this year. And,

272
00:32:16,302 --> 00:32:20,782
uh, and was approved to invest in those recommendations that

273
00:32:20,883 --> 00:32:26,942
were part of that study. There was a, uh, their

274
00:32:26,942 --> 00:32:30,542
security associated with it. It wasn't at all addressing the

275
00:32:30,542 --> 00:32:33,182
security report. I remember that. I know I didn't mean

276
00:32:33,222 --> 00:32:37,902
that. I meant the mold and the roof and those

277
00:32:37,902 --> 00:32:42,806
things. Councillor, again, I think you're raising excellent points, but

278
00:32:42,806 --> 00:32:46,186
let's park those until we get to the report because

279
00:32:46,186 --> 00:32:49,706
that's, we have more appropriate time for staff to respond

280
00:32:49,746 --> 00:32:52,426
to them. Councillor, to some of those points. We, we

281
00:32:52,466 --> 00:32:55,626
do have in every building, we have our members that

282
00:32:56,527 --> 00:32:59,786
are committee of health and safety. So when we see

283
00:33:00,047 --> 00:33:02,666
issues that are brought up, those members bring it to

284
00:33:03,327 --> 00:33:05,946
myself and my vice president. And we bring it to

285
00:33:05,986 --> 00:33:07,946
the department and say, these are miners that need to

286
00:33:07,946 --> 00:33:11,466
be addressed. They are addressed in a timely manner when

287
00:33:11,567 --> 00:33:14,346
they're brought up. But the problem that we have and

288
00:33:14,367 --> 00:33:16,666
that the department is facing is that it's been years

289
00:33:16,706 --> 00:33:20,666
and years a band - aid solutions. Cleaning of mold,

290
00:33:20,666 --> 00:33:22,986
not fixing the root cause of mold so that we

291
00:33:22,986 --> 00:33:26,826
are constantly always in a state of repair, not in

292
00:33:27,087 --> 00:33:29,466
a, we fix the problem. And every year we're fixing

293
00:33:29,506 --> 00:33:33,555
it. Thank you. I do appreciate that. And I do

294
00:33:33,555 --> 00:33:37,515
appreciate how our other municipal buildings also get patched and

295
00:33:37,536 --> 00:33:39,355
repaired. So that's why I'm just looking for some of

296
00:33:39,355 --> 00:33:42,395
the details on, on those reports. I appreciate what you

297
00:33:42,435 --> 00:33:47,451
say. Thank you. Thank you. Mayor, call your. Questions of

298
00:33:47,491 --> 00:33:52,070
the delegate. Through you, Mr. Tommins, uh, Mr. Thomas, you

299
00:33:52,070 --> 00:33:56,330
sent a letter to me on April 13th outlining a

300
00:33:56,370 --> 00:33:59,930
number of these concerns. Um, there was an incident about

301
00:33:59,951 --> 00:34:02,970
two weeks ago. Can you speak to that, please? Where

302
00:34:02,970 --> 00:34:05,690
two officers were injured? Yes. Two weeks ago, two of

303
00:34:05,690 --> 00:34:08,570
my officers, well, in the back parking lot of the

304
00:34:08,751 --> 00:34:13,930
17 division, which is Oshawa were assaulted to put it

305
00:34:13,930 --> 00:34:16,010
bluntly. They were assaulted by a member of the community

306
00:34:16,591 --> 00:34:21,050
suffering from mental health issues. But the officers had no,

307
00:34:21,071 --> 00:34:23,930
no warning, no idea that it was coming until he

308
00:34:23,970 --> 00:34:28,090
was on them. And one officer sustained injuries through their

309
00:34:28,130 --> 00:34:32,090
leg. Another to their face area in an area that

310
00:34:32,271 --> 00:34:36,570
is signed. There's a sign that says public do not

311
00:34:36,591 --> 00:34:40,390
cross. And this has been the problem that we, which

312
00:34:40,390 --> 00:34:42,310
brought me to write that letter to you is that

313
00:34:42,310 --> 00:34:45,510
we have been talking about this for 10 years, that

314
00:34:45,510 --> 00:34:48,210
there is no reason for anyone to be in the

315
00:34:48,251 --> 00:34:51,510
back area. Not only for the members of my department

316
00:34:51,771 --> 00:34:54,150
who were at risk, that is a Sally port area

317
00:34:54,190 --> 00:35:00,630
where we bring and take out prisoners. Those prisoners are,

318
00:35:00,630 --> 00:35:03,190
they also have the right to safety. They shouldn't have

319
00:35:03,190 --> 00:35:05,270
to be in that back area and fear what if

320
00:35:05,310 --> 00:35:07,990
somebody was to want to attack them while they're being

321
00:35:08,011 --> 00:35:13,110
released from the back of 17 division. It was the

322
00:35:13,150 --> 00:35:15,990
final straw of, that's why I've had to write this

323
00:35:16,030 --> 00:35:18,470
letter. And that's why I'm speaking here today is because

324
00:35:18,491 --> 00:35:21,430
I'm not the first president to have brought these items

325
00:35:21,531 --> 00:35:24,790
up. I know the president before me. I worked with

326
00:35:24,971 --> 00:35:28,230
them very closely. He's brought these items up. The president

327
00:35:28,411 --> 00:35:32,470
before him brought these items up. Our tenures are four

328
00:35:32,510 --> 00:35:37,510
years. I'm talking three presidents just in that math alone.

329
00:35:37,510 --> 00:35:41,030
We're talking 12 years of us saying that these problems

330
00:35:41,131 --> 00:35:44,551
need to be fixed. Now when it has crossed over

331
00:35:44,572 --> 00:35:47,671
that I actually have members that have been hurt now

332
00:35:47,852 --> 00:35:50,151
into an area where I believe that the work environment

333
00:35:50,252 --> 00:35:54,871
is unsafe. I also understand that that means that there

334
00:35:54,871 --> 00:35:58,151
needs to be fences up. And fences don't happen overnight.

335
00:35:58,151 --> 00:36:00,871
So I cannot tell my members not to come to

336
00:36:00,911 --> 00:36:03,911
work because we serve the public. That's our number one

337
00:36:04,012 --> 00:36:06,871
priority. That's why we do this job. But we also

338
00:36:07,132 --> 00:36:09,911
want to be safe. And if I believe that we're

339
00:36:09,911 --> 00:36:13,191
moving in a right direction, then that's, that's good for

340
00:36:13,212 --> 00:36:16,391
my members. That's good for the public. But I think

341
00:36:16,492 --> 00:36:18,311
that we had to write that letter. And I think

342
00:36:18,332 --> 00:36:20,551
that I had to be here today to speak because

343
00:36:20,551 --> 00:36:23,369
I don't think we're moving in the right direction. So

344
00:36:23,409 --> 00:36:27,129
in this letter, you outline seven or eight different deficiencies.

345
00:36:27,129 --> 00:36:29,689
Some of them we talked about today. And five requests

346
00:36:29,729 --> 00:36:33,049
for five, uh, five items to be met. My job

347
00:36:33,089 --> 00:36:35,049
is to make sure under the act that we're providing

348
00:36:35,230 --> 00:36:39,995
Ado couldn't affect a policing. If this isn't approved and

349
00:36:40,016 --> 00:36:42,795
we are not able to number two, a comprehensive plan

350
00:36:43,136 --> 00:36:47,995
and timeline to modernize or replace facilities. What are your

351
00:36:48,016 --> 00:36:52,755
options as far as, um, contracting minister and labour. I

352
00:36:52,755 --> 00:36:55,835
just want you outline the next steps. If adequate effect

353
00:36:55,875 --> 00:36:58,494
of policing is not being provided for our members. That's

354
00:36:58,515 --> 00:37:01,294
very much to what the Councillor's first question was to

355
00:37:01,315 --> 00:37:04,414
me. Will I allow my members to continue to work

356
00:37:04,595 --> 00:37:07,519
in an unsafe environment? No, I will not. And I

357
00:37:07,519 --> 00:37:09,439
will go to the labour board and I will do

358
00:37:09,620 --> 00:37:12,639
everything that I can to ensure that my members are

359
00:37:12,679 --> 00:37:16,639
safe. Because like everyone in this room, I report to

360
00:37:16,660 --> 00:37:19,759
my members. I work for them. And if they're not

361
00:37:19,780 --> 00:37:22,079
safe, I'm going to do everything in my power and

362
00:37:22,079 --> 00:37:27,279
I will leverage every municipal or federal or provincial member

363
00:37:27,300 --> 00:37:30,319
that I can to make sure my members are safe.

364
00:37:30,319 --> 00:37:33,071
And what does that look like. As far as repercussions

365
00:37:34,212 --> 00:37:36,271
to DRPS and the reaching of Durham? It would mean

366
00:37:36,311 --> 00:37:38,431
the ministry of labour will be coming in and it

367
00:37:38,431 --> 00:37:40,191
will mean that the ministry of labour will start to

368
00:37:40,231 --> 00:37:42,911
see these safety reports that said these things are top

369
00:37:43,092 --> 00:37:48,486
priorities and top necessities. And that's from a independent security

370
00:37:48,526 --> 00:37:51,693
agency that came in and did this. If we're working

371
00:37:52,274 --> 00:37:54,813
in the right direction, again, I will always continue to

372
00:37:54,853 --> 00:37:57,853
do that if we're not, then I will have to

373
00:37:57,954 --> 00:38:00,153
look out for the best interests of my members. And

374
00:38:00,153 --> 00:38:02,333
I will bring in whatever I have to help that.

375
00:38:03,048 --> 00:38:07,581
Thank you. Thank you, Chair. Thank you. Chair. Councillor Wu

376
00:38:07,922 --> 00:38:17,091
online. Councillor Wu.

377
00:38:26,504 --> 00:38:31,407
I can't hear anything you're saying. Was he on the

378
00:38:31,407 --> 00:38:37,892
screen? Councillor, can you do your request button again, please?

379
00:38:41,468 --> 00:38:50,737
It's not working. Okay. I'm going to go to Councillor

380
00:38:50,758 --> 00:38:57,199
Neal. For questions and then, uh, Councillor, perhaps you can

381
00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:01,660
try again. Councillor Neal, you have the floor. Yeah. Thanks,

382
00:39:01,700 --> 00:39:06,607
Mr. Chair. Like Clebanan Council 26 years and when that

383
00:39:06,628 --> 00:39:09,087
North Station was open, how did that station get there

384
00:39:09,127 --> 00:39:13,497
with no potable water. I'd love to give you an

385
00:39:13,537 --> 00:39:17,657
answer for that. But unfortunately the station opened while I

386
00:39:17,657 --> 00:39:19,577
was at Elmer and I have no idea why we

387
00:39:19,617 --> 00:39:21,897
put a station in what is a middle of a

388
00:39:21,918 --> 00:39:25,179
swamp. Well, I just like to know how it got

389
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:29,019
there because of her. If there never was plottable water,

390
00:39:29,019 --> 00:39:31,259
why was it built or any station on a floodplain

391
00:39:31,299 --> 00:39:35,019
or anything else? I agree with you, but I cannot

392
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,739
give you that answer because it was not my decision.

393
00:39:40,144 --> 00:39:43,323
Okay, because I just don't understand how it would even

394
00:39:43,323 --> 00:39:46,121
be there, but it's against the law. To actually put

395
00:39:46,222 --> 00:39:49,241
a building up out there with no potable water. That

396
00:39:49,422 --> 00:39:51,721
has to be, uh, the results of water testing has

397
00:39:51,761 --> 00:39:55,917
to be handed in. And everything before it stations certified

398
00:39:56,018 --> 00:39:57,917
to go. So I'm just wondering how that could happen.

399
00:40:00,252 --> 00:40:02,631
Again. Thank you. I agree with you, but I'm not

400
00:40:02,652 --> 00:40:07,911
here today to lay blame or to blame either. I'm

401
00:40:07,911 --> 00:40:11,751
just wondering how that could even happen. So thanks. Councillor

402
00:40:11,791 --> 00:40:14,231
Neal, if I could give you some history because I

403
00:40:14,271 --> 00:40:16,231
happen to be on the board at the time as

404
00:40:16,231 --> 00:40:19,831
a private citizen appointed by Council, uh, that was not

405
00:40:20,492 --> 00:40:23,591
the location that the board picked, uh, we had another

406
00:40:23,772 --> 00:40:28,263
site, um, the old auction barn site actually. And we

407
00:40:28,364 --> 00:40:31,943
actually had agreement to purchase. And the region opted to

408
00:40:31,964 --> 00:40:35,943
go the facilities people opted to go at this site.

409
00:40:35,943 --> 00:40:37,863
So that was not the board's position at the time.

410
00:40:37,863 --> 00:40:40,988
So. Well, I'm just wondering how the site could be

411
00:40:40,988 --> 00:40:44,586
picked with no potable water at all. So. A good

412
00:40:44,586 --> 00:40:48,346
point. Thank you. I got to try Councillor Wu again.

413
00:40:49,916 --> 00:40:54,055
Here we go. Willie, you got you. Yeah. Uh, can

414
00:40:54,095 --> 00:40:58,032
you hear me now? Yes. Okay. Thank you very much.

415
00:40:58,032 --> 00:41:01,472
Uh, through the chair and andrew. Thank you very much

416
00:41:01,733 --> 00:41:06,192
for speaking up for your members. Uh, for these association.

417
00:41:06,192 --> 00:41:08,112
Uh, one thing I did want to ask, we're talking

418
00:41:08,112 --> 00:41:11,152
about the health and safety. Certainly with all of our

419
00:41:11,653 --> 00:41:16,512
facilities, uh, that we have maybe other than the East

420
00:41:16,533 --> 00:41:22,512
division. We're looking at spatial, uh, problems that we have

421
00:41:22,613 --> 00:41:25,712
there, what the number of officers that we're hiring with

422
00:41:25,813 --> 00:41:31,112
the, uh, even the locker situation. We are cramped. We

423
00:41:31,112 --> 00:41:34,572
have outgrown those facilities. Can you speak to that? And

424
00:41:34,572 --> 00:41:37,612
I know we've been talking about the North Division, the

425
00:41:37,612 --> 00:41:42,912
Scugog, but other facilities, we are crap that we've both

426
00:41:42,933 --> 00:41:46,038
grown them. Can you speak to some of that. Yes.

427
00:41:46,299 --> 00:41:48,038
Like, like I said, I've been here for 26 years

428
00:41:48,459 --> 00:41:51,638
and this region has doubled in size since I started.

429
00:41:51,638 --> 00:41:54,998
Winfield Farms was a horse race track. When I first

430
00:41:55,038 --> 00:41:57,398
became a police officer here now, and now it's the

431
00:41:57,499 --> 00:42:01,478
fastest growing area in Oshawa. And the problem is these

432
00:42:01,579 --> 00:42:05,798
buildings were designed for us at that time. A 54

433
00:42:05,819 --> 00:42:10,038
year old building was adequate 54 years ago. Now those

434
00:42:10,059 --> 00:42:13,238
same officers are the ones that respond to the North

435
00:42:13,259 --> 00:42:17,158
Oshawa. We're full. The community's full and we need new

436
00:42:17,339 --> 00:42:20,118
stations. And it isn't about the shiny buildings. We're not

437
00:42:20,118 --> 00:42:22,438
trying, I'm not standing up here saying that I need

438
00:42:22,619 --> 00:42:24,518
new buildings because I want them for the way they

439
00:42:24,539 --> 00:42:27,158
look. We need new buildings because that's what we need

440
00:42:27,198 --> 00:42:30,518
to be able to operate. We're trying to entice other

441
00:42:30,779 --> 00:42:33,558
officers from other regions to come here and work for

442
00:42:33,558 --> 00:42:36,598
us because we are growing so fast that we need

443
00:42:36,699 --> 00:42:40,438
that experience. Can you imagine being an officer who works

444
00:42:40,699 --> 00:42:44,438
in York and their buildings that they have there and

445
00:42:44,478 --> 00:42:46,598
deciding that, Hey, you know what? I maybe do want

446
00:42:46,638 --> 00:42:49,718
to come to Durham. I want to work in Durham.

447
00:42:49,718 --> 00:42:52,118
And then talking to my officers and saying, Hey, what's

448
00:42:52,118 --> 00:42:55,058
it like here? Well, there's mold in the gym. The

449
00:42:55,058 --> 00:42:57,398
roof leaks when it rains. Uh, you can't drink the

450
00:42:57,438 --> 00:43:00,678
water in the north station. Why would you leave to

451
00:43:00,699 --> 00:43:04,678
come here if we can't even house our employees in

452
00:43:04,678 --> 00:43:07,569
a safe manner. And, and frankly, you're right. They're too

453
00:43:07,569 --> 00:43:11,409
small now. We're cramped. We're growing in size. Like I

454
00:43:11,409 --> 00:43:13,169
said, I thank you for the budget that made it

455
00:43:13,190 --> 00:43:15,649
so we could hire more members. But it doesn't do

456
00:43:15,750 --> 00:43:17,729
us any good if we don't have spots to house

457
00:43:17,750 --> 00:43:22,879
them. Well, my last question again is a follow up

458
00:43:22,980 --> 00:43:29,053
you mentioned about, uh, Jim. Uh, in North vision, where

459
00:43:29,053 --> 00:43:33,837
is the gym. I think they had to move it.

460
00:43:33,837 --> 00:43:37,597
Right now the North Division is getting some, uh, upgrades

461
00:43:37,618 --> 00:43:40,637
to its building and the washrooms have all been closed

462
00:43:40,637 --> 00:43:43,037
down, as has the gym in order to be able

463
00:43:43,037 --> 00:43:46,877
to do these. Um, we've had to facilitate to make

464
00:43:46,877 --> 00:43:49,197
sure that we had the ability to still have a

465
00:43:49,298 --> 00:43:51,997
shower and change room. And we've moved the gym out

466
00:43:52,178 --> 00:43:57,044
to the garage. To the wear? To the garage behind

467
00:43:58,025 --> 00:44:00,724
26 division, the small garage. And that's where the gym

468
00:44:00,745 --> 00:44:05,519
is now located. The garage. Yes. Okay. Okay. Thank you

469
00:44:05,559 --> 00:44:09,519
very much. Uh, thank you, chair. Thank you, Councillor Wu.

470
00:44:10,385 --> 00:44:13,144
Chair. Chair Henry of the floor. Uh, thank you. And

471
00:44:13,144 --> 00:44:16,204
thank you, Andrew, for being here today. Um, Andrew, today's

472
00:44:16,225 --> 00:44:19,084
the first time I've heard about the parking lot issue

473
00:44:20,465 --> 00:44:23,084
on the division in Oshawa. So I'm, I'm sorry to

474
00:44:23,084 --> 00:44:27,084
have heard that. Uh, sorry, the First day you've heard

475
00:44:27,124 --> 00:44:29,484
about a parking issue in Oshawa. Oh, it's the first

476
00:44:29,484 --> 00:44:32,124
time I've heard about vehicles being vandalized in that parking

477
00:44:32,145 --> 00:44:37,256
lot. You had mentioned that somebody loosened some lug nuts.

478
00:44:37,296 --> 00:44:39,496
I frankly, I'm surprised to hear that this is the

479
00:44:39,536 --> 00:44:41,896
first time you've heard about it because I know that

480
00:44:42,317 --> 00:44:46,376
other presidents have spoken about that property because we, when

481
00:44:46,376 --> 00:44:48,296
we first started in Oshawa, we did have a parking

482
00:44:48,397 --> 00:44:51,336
lot to the north of the station as well, right?

483
00:44:51,336 --> 00:44:54,385
To the northeast. That parking lot was taken away because

484
00:44:54,566 --> 00:44:56,785
of the person that owned it no longer wanted a

485
00:44:56,785 --> 00:44:59,185
rent to us. My comments are reflected in your comments

486
00:44:59,225 --> 00:45:02,705
today about a vehicle being damaged. Okay. Okay. So I

487
00:45:02,726 --> 00:45:05,505
will make a commitment to you today to find out

488
00:45:05,526 --> 00:45:07,985
who owns that property and to see if it can

489
00:45:07,985 --> 00:45:12,762
be fenced. Um, we, we have tried numerous times. And

490
00:45:12,762 --> 00:45:15,982
I, I assumed that the region was aware of this.

491
00:45:15,982 --> 00:45:18,942
We have tried numerous times to get that fact saying

492
00:45:18,982 --> 00:45:21,060
you have my commitment. And I will check into that

493
00:45:21,161 --> 00:45:23,966
today. I'm also not sure if you're aware that we

494
00:45:23,987 --> 00:45:26,606
did find a solution a couple of years ago for

495
00:45:26,707 --> 00:45:30,446
water into, um, into the poor periodivision. And for whatever

496
00:45:30,467 --> 00:45:34,507
reason, it didn't happen. That's solution still exists. And it

497
00:45:34,507 --> 00:45:36,267
is something that could go forward if this is going

498
00:45:36,267 --> 00:45:38,347
to be a long period of time. I will sit

499
00:45:38,368 --> 00:45:41,227
down with our staff again and talk about what that

500
00:45:41,328 --> 00:45:44,247
solution is and see if it can be done. But

501
00:45:44,608 --> 00:45:46,347
we did come up with that solution a couple of

502
00:45:46,387 --> 00:45:48,667
years ago. And, and was that solution to come out

503
00:45:48,667 --> 00:45:50,267
of the police budget or was it coming out of

504
00:45:50,267 --> 00:45:53,055
the regions budget. Do you know, I'm not really sure.

505
00:45:53,055 --> 00:45:54,495
That's why I'm going to sit down. But we will

506
00:45:54,516 --> 00:45:57,455
find a way to make it work as we have

507
00:45:57,455 --> 00:45:59,855
in the past. We've made a number of decisions that

508
00:45:59,956 --> 00:46:03,295
were outside of the police budget to advance police services.

509
00:46:03,766 --> 00:46:05,745
Uh, in the last couple of years. In fact, since

510
00:46:05,785 --> 00:46:09,805
the chief has been there, I think we've approved, and

511
00:46:09,805 --> 00:46:12,705
I rough notes, 51. 9 million in funding for major

512
00:46:12,726 --> 00:46:16,340
capital facilities just since the chief's been here. Um, that

513
00:46:17,241 --> 00:46:20,800
doesn't include the increases in the number of officers. And

514
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,780
you would be absolutely aware. It's about a 33 percent

515
00:46:23,820 --> 00:46:28,898
increase. So I will go back and today in my

516
00:46:28,898 --> 00:46:31,138
office, I will go back and work with our team

517
00:46:31,178 --> 00:46:33,138
here to find the plans. And then I will make

518
00:46:33,138 --> 00:46:36,958
sure the chief gets a copy of that direction. And

519
00:46:36,958 --> 00:46:39,138
I thank you for that. And I want to put

520
00:46:39,159 --> 00:46:41,778
out that I'm in the fourth year of my tenure

521
00:46:41,879 --> 00:46:44,258
and I have an open door policy. And I have

522
00:46:44,258 --> 00:46:46,578
always said that I would love to speak to whoever

523
00:46:46,618 --> 00:46:49,169
would like to talk to me. People have not utilised

524
00:46:49,209 --> 00:46:51,249
that ability to want to talk to me in regards

525
00:46:51,289 --> 00:46:55,876
to some of this except when I'm here. Furthers are

526
00:46:55,876 --> 00:46:59,076
numbers. It's very easy to give numbers of this is

527
00:46:59,076 --> 00:47:02,516
the increase. We've increased in our staffing. That is true.

528
00:47:02,516 --> 00:47:04,836
But we were 10 years without any increase to that

529
00:47:05,097 --> 00:47:07,796
staffing. So when we increased staffing now over the last

530
00:47:07,897 --> 00:47:10,836
three, we're just catching up from what we didn't do

531
00:47:11,097 --> 00:47:13,796
for 10 years. And as I said, I'm not here

532
00:47:13,897 --> 00:47:17,716
today to be argumentative or to try to say that

533
00:47:17,756 --> 00:47:20,852
there's blame to be had. But we do need to

534
00:47:20,873 --> 00:47:24,132
have a plan moving forward for the next 10 so

535
00:47:24,172 --> 00:47:26,852
that we are not sitting here 10 years from now,

536
00:47:26,852 --> 00:47:29,572
which will not be me as the president. But sitting

537
00:47:29,593 --> 00:47:32,132
here going in the exact same roundabout that we are

538
00:47:32,153 --> 00:47:34,772
right now of we have a problem. We have a

539
00:47:34,772 --> 00:47:38,892
problem. We have a problem. We have been here. I

540
00:47:38,892 --> 00:47:42,052
know of a document that was read by Randy Henning,

541
00:47:42,052 --> 00:47:44,292
the president at the time that was 14 pages that

542
00:47:44,633 --> 00:47:48,528
outlined issues that I'm still dealing with today. And that's

543
00:47:48,568 --> 00:47:51,168
the problem is we keep kicking a can down a

544
00:47:51,208 --> 00:47:54,128
road to say we're going to look into it. Oh,

545
00:47:54,128 --> 00:47:56,448
let's, let's put a motion forward to adopt that we

546
00:47:56,488 --> 00:47:59,248
will look into it. We can continue to look in

547
00:47:59,349 --> 00:48:01,968
it. And it is only getting worse because these issues

548
00:48:02,229 --> 00:48:05,328
are not being dealt with. And by not dealing with

549
00:48:05,429 --> 00:48:07,968
them and not utilising all the members that can be

550
00:48:08,069 --> 00:48:11,568
partners, this is what we've ended up with. We shortened

551
00:48:11,589 --> 00:48:15,088
the range. Let me be very clear. We shortened our

552
00:48:15,349 --> 00:48:19,968
gun range from the drawings by a certain amount of

553
00:48:20,008 --> 00:48:23,797
feet. 10. The 10 feet that we shortened that range

554
00:48:23,978 --> 00:48:26,277
to save money is the 10 feet to make it

555
00:48:26,298 --> 00:48:29,117
that we now can't shoot our rifles in there. So

556
00:48:29,117 --> 00:48:31,637
the rifles that we are to be trained on every

557
00:48:31,677 --> 00:48:35,877
year, we can't shoot them in our own gun facility.

558
00:48:35,877 --> 00:48:38,837
And now we're in North Durham shooting. And as you

559
00:48:38,837 --> 00:48:43,157
can imagine, that's 20 officers with semi - automatic rifles

560
00:48:43,738 --> 00:48:47,317
firing to be qualified. I can't believe that the neighbours

561
00:48:47,317 --> 00:48:49,637
up there are happy with the fact of hearing all

562
00:48:49,637 --> 00:48:53,137
that gunfire. But we have to do it. Because the

563
00:48:53,178 --> 00:48:59,163
range we built is too short. Thank you, Andrew, for

564
00:48:59,844 --> 00:49:04,283
your presentation today, as well as your continued advocacy. Uh,

565
00:49:04,283 --> 00:49:06,623
we have another delegation and then we're going to get

566
00:49:06,623 --> 00:49:08,223
through to the report. So thank you for being here.

567
00:49:08,484 --> 00:49:17,883
Thank you. Thank you. Our next delegate. Our next delegate

568
00:49:17,883 --> 00:49:22,966
is Douglas. Uh, resident from AJAX. Uh, welcome back to

569
00:49:23,006 --> 00:49:29,433
our chamber, Mr. Glass. Uh, you have five minutes. And

570
00:49:29,433 --> 00:49:31,653
I understand you might need a couple more minutes. So

571
00:49:31,653 --> 00:49:34,813
I'll ask a committee at that point for extension. So

572
00:49:35,314 --> 00:49:39,853
your time starts now. Great. Thank you, Chair. Committee members

573
00:49:40,354 --> 00:49:44,573
and Durham police leadership. I appreciate the opportunity to speak

574
00:49:44,674 --> 00:49:47,773
today and would like to wish all members a happy

575
00:49:47,874 --> 00:49:51,199
police week. As a 30 year resident of Durham, I

576
00:49:51,420 --> 00:49:55,079
strongly support the recommendation in this report to defer the

577
00:49:55,180 --> 00:49:59,479
10 year budget strategy to next term. The report clearly

578
00:49:59,580 --> 00:50:03,079
recognises that there is an election this fall. And that

579
00:50:03,119 --> 00:50:07,239
the new elected Council is responsible for setting budgets in

580
00:50:07,340 --> 00:50:13,559
2027 and beyond. This current Council's mandate for budgeting this

581
00:50:13,580 --> 00:50:18,608
term has been fulfilled. With the 2026 budget. Residents of

582
00:50:18,709 --> 00:50:22,048
Durham region will elect the next council. And they will

583
00:50:22,088 --> 00:50:27,408
be charged with the 2027 property tax increases. This 10

584
00:50:27,509 --> 00:50:30,368
year strategy serves as a starting point for the future

585
00:50:30,709 --> 00:50:34,288
council. And this board should be thanked for their work

586
00:50:34,469 --> 00:50:38,528
in putting it together. That said, the 2. 6 billion

587
00:50:39,349 --> 00:50:44,288
in new strategic investments and capital facilities raises significant questions

588
00:50:44,328 --> 00:50:47,968
for me as a taxpayer. I keep hearing one phrase

589
00:50:48,149 --> 00:50:53,244
repeatedly adequate and effective policing. No one disputes any of

590
00:50:53,244 --> 00:50:56,949
that. But the phrase is increasingly being used in a

591
00:50:56,949 --> 00:51:01,269
way that becomes almost impossible to challenge. So I asked

592
00:51:01,269 --> 00:51:05,269
the police board what exactly is the cost of adequate

593
00:51:05,690 --> 00:51:11,029
and effective policing in documented, measurable terms. And where is

594
00:51:11,029 --> 00:51:15,509
the public detailed itemized report showing what is legally required

595
00:51:16,330 --> 00:51:22,067
versus what is operationally preferred. What is strategic expansion? And

596
00:51:22,248 --> 00:51:26,707
what specific outcomes will taxpayers receive for each of these

597
00:51:26,888 --> 00:51:30,867
investments? What I keep hearing is narrative risk instead of

598
00:51:30,968 --> 00:51:37,827
clearly defined, quantifiable costs, and resident outcomes. That is how

599
00:51:37,867 --> 00:51:44,181
you prove adequate and effective policing. Council has shown on

600
00:51:44,362 --> 00:51:48,901
page 3 23 of this report. Taxpayers have clearly supported

601
00:51:49,322 --> 00:51:52,341
the men and women who serve our community by increasing

602
00:51:52,362 --> 00:51:57,412
their ranks by almost 42 percent. You should be asking

603
00:51:57,673 --> 00:52:01,172
the board is what measurable improvements have occurred as a

604
00:52:01,212 --> 00:52:07,092
result of our significant investments. For example, in the 2026

605
00:52:07,593 --> 00:52:11,012
police budget, the key target for foot and bike patrols

606
00:52:11,273 --> 00:52:16,532
is 2, 300 hours. But in 2022, the actual number

607
00:52:16,572 --> 00:52:20,372
of these patrols was four times higher at 10, 000

608
00:52:20,412 --> 00:52:24,612
hours. This, in spite of having much less officers in

609
00:52:24,713 --> 00:52:28,668
2022. So the question I ask is, well, I have

610
00:52:28,729 --> 00:52:33,908
committed street patrols not been reset to 10, 000 hours.

611
00:52:33,908 --> 00:52:38,628
Residents and businesses alike are demanding more visible community presence.

612
00:52:38,729 --> 00:52:43,588
Particularly in our vulnerable areas. Other results for things like

613
00:52:44,169 --> 00:52:48,090
response times, show a similar pattern. Let me look at

614
00:52:48,090 --> 00:52:50,970
the 10 year plan. Last week, the chief spent roughly

615
00:52:51,311 --> 00:52:54,090
30 percent of his time speaking to the challenges of

616
00:52:54,271 --> 00:52:58,490
operating effectively in police facilities. There were many verbal examples

617
00:52:58,591 --> 00:53:01,290
about how efficiencies we're going to be gained by things

618
00:53:01,330 --> 00:53:05,850
like centralized training. But there were no documented measurable savings

619
00:53:06,111 --> 00:53:13,130
communicated publicly to support such significant investments. That matters. Council,

620
00:53:13,130 --> 00:53:15,210
how are you and the police board supposed to hold

621
00:53:15,471 --> 00:53:18,570
one another accountable when there is no line by line

622
00:53:18,831 --> 00:53:23,770
documented measurable savings and outcomes reported. That is how mutual

623
00:53:23,951 --> 00:53:27,770
accountability works. And I support the men and women who

624
00:53:27,951 --> 00:53:32,010
keep our communities safe. But this does not mean abandoning

625
00:53:32,191 --> 00:53:38,150
scrutiny, accountability or affordability. It also means working together. And

626
00:53:38,150 --> 00:53:40,170
I was troubled by some of the comments I heard

627
00:53:40,210 --> 00:53:43,370
last week. And even some of the ones earlier before

628
00:53:43,391 --> 00:53:46,972
me, comments like the association is getting ready. I really

629
00:53:47,073 --> 00:53:49,612
don't know what that means. And I don't know how

630
00:53:50,273 --> 00:53:54,252
this builds future goodwill in the mutual service of residents

631
00:53:54,292 --> 00:53:58,558
like me. We all want better. We all wish we

632
00:53:58,598 --> 00:54:01,998
had more. But the police board, Council and every Department

633
00:54:02,339 --> 00:54:06,505
needs to know that we have finite resources. Across Sturm

634
00:54:06,545 --> 00:54:10,805
Region, residents are falling behind in their property taxes. And

635
00:54:11,566 --> 00:54:14,825
your growing tax arreers is a warning sign. All of

636
00:54:14,825 --> 00:54:19,465
you have growing tax arreers. That exactly why Resident Input

637
00:54:19,646 --> 00:54:24,265
like mine today matters in setting priorities. As a resident

638
00:54:24,286 --> 00:54:27,865
and taxpayer, I strongly support the recommendation to defer the

639
00:54:27,865 --> 00:54:30,985
budget direction to the next elected Council. I see my

640
00:54:31,006 --> 00:54:32,665
time's up. May I ask for a two - minute

641
00:54:32,665 --> 00:54:37,044
extension. I moved by Councillor Crawford, second by Councillor Yamada

642
00:54:37,305 --> 00:54:40,084
for two - minute extension. I'll just in favor oppose

643
00:54:40,084 --> 00:54:44,084
that items care. Please continue. Great. So I urge the

644
00:54:44,084 --> 00:54:46,804
Council to defer budget direction to the next Council. I

645
00:54:46,844 --> 00:54:50,404
also urge this committee and council to require three things

646
00:54:50,425 --> 00:54:53,952
going forward from the police board. Number one. A more

647
00:54:53,992 --> 00:54:57,632
professional business - like case with measurable public targets and

648
00:54:57,733 --> 00:55:02,672
deliverables. Two, scenario analysis showing what happens under different growth

649
00:55:02,933 --> 00:55:08,032
assumptions and affordability concerns. And three, clear documented evidence that

650
00:55:08,133 --> 00:55:12,672
shows how these investments will directly improve service and reduce

651
00:55:12,693 --> 00:55:16,672
crime for residents. Because if taxpayers are asked to support

652
00:55:16,933 --> 00:55:20,672
a 2. 6 billion dollar strategy, trust us is simply

653
00:55:20,773 --> 00:55:23,232
not good enough. I'd like to speak to two other

654
00:55:23,253 --> 00:55:27,472
quick things. On slide five, the chief's presentation last week,

655
00:55:27,472 --> 00:55:30,752
he cited Durham's 1. 3 million population as the driver.

656
00:55:31,093 --> 00:55:35,312
But the province's own ministry of Finance forecast shows that

657
00:55:35,893 --> 00:55:40,752
Durham's projected population is 20 percent lower at 1. 06

658
00:55:41,013 --> 00:55:44,592
million. Accordingly, I believe this council should be very carefully

659
00:55:45,013 --> 00:55:48,092
questioning long - term budget assumptions, not just in the

660
00:55:48,213 --> 00:55:51,792
police, but in transit works across the Durham. Because if

661
00:55:51,832 --> 00:55:55,712
Durham's population is significantly higher than the province, we, that's

662
00:55:55,712 --> 00:55:58,832
an issue. On May 7th, the second point, and I

663
00:55:58,832 --> 00:56:03,552
think the police chief association or union association mention this

664
00:56:03,552 --> 00:56:06,592
survey, one of those questions was asked because I got

665
00:56:06,613 --> 00:56:11,152
that survey. Would you support increased spending on policing, even

666
00:56:11,152 --> 00:56:14,492
if it impacted property taxes? It's a good question. But

667
00:56:14,492 --> 00:56:18,992
the question provided no context regarding the 2. 6 billion

668
00:56:19,013 --> 00:56:21,792
dollar scale of the proposal or its impact on property

669
00:56:21,813 --> 00:56:27,152
taxes. That matters. So if DRPS plans to use this

670
00:56:27,152 --> 00:56:30,832
survey suggests strong resident support for spending growth, I think

671
00:56:31,333 --> 00:56:34,768
council needs to consider the framing of the question. Thank

672
00:56:34,808 --> 00:56:40,242
you very much, Jay. Thank you, Mr. Glass. Um, and

673
00:56:40,282 --> 00:56:46,982
he committee members. Have questions. No, so council, uh, Mayor

674
00:56:47,022 --> 00:56:51,073
Collier, you have the floor. Thank you, chair. Uh, Mr.

675
00:56:51,254 --> 00:56:55,953
Glass, you suggest that this committee should approve the recommendation

676
00:56:56,054 --> 00:56:58,833
received information and sort of kick this down the field

677
00:56:59,254 --> 00:57:03,067
to next council and next budget. Are you on the

678
00:57:03,067 --> 00:57:05,067
impression this is the first time these numbers in this

679
00:57:05,067 --> 00:57:08,221
Capitol plan have been before this council? Uh, in terms

680
00:57:08,221 --> 00:57:10,461
of kicking it down the field, I think this is

681
00:57:10,722 --> 00:57:12,141
my question is, do you believe this is the first

682
00:57:12,181 --> 00:57:16,899
time these numbers have been before this council. Uh, I'm

683
00:57:16,939 --> 00:57:22,099
not aware of, I can't. Well, you should probably know,

684
00:57:22,099 --> 00:57:24,979
would it surprise you if I said that these numbers

685
00:57:24,979 --> 00:57:26,659
should have been in front of this council for the

686
00:57:26,659 --> 00:57:29,779
last five years plus mayor, we don't want to debate

687
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:33,219
the delegates, uh, questions the Delegation. I did. I said,

688
00:57:33,219 --> 00:57:36,669
would it surprise you. If you were told that this

689
00:57:36,850 --> 00:57:39,229
has been in front of this, the five year operating,

690
00:57:39,229 --> 00:57:41,389
in 10 year capital for at least the five, last

691
00:57:41,389 --> 00:57:48,687
five years. I'm not aware that I follow the budgets.

692
00:57:48,687 --> 00:57:52,367
And what I've seen is that this council has been

693
00:57:52,708 --> 00:57:57,567
very supportive in some pretty, um, remarkable budgets. And I

694
00:57:57,607 --> 00:57:59,887
was glad to hear what Chair Henry just said about

695
00:57:59,887 --> 00:58:03,567
the 51 million in capital spending. So that's not answered

696
00:58:03,567 --> 00:58:07,167
my question. My next question is knowing now that this

697
00:58:07,188 --> 00:58:10,127
has been kicked down the field every year for at

698
00:58:10,127 --> 00:58:12,287
least the last five years. You still think it's appropriate

699
00:58:12,388 --> 00:58:15,647
to put it off to the next Council again? No.

700
00:58:15,687 --> 00:58:18,287
If you heard my presentation. So the answer is no.

701
00:58:18,287 --> 00:58:21,287
Thank you. No, no. If you heard my presentation, I

702
00:58:21,287 --> 00:58:23,647
think you need to line item detail those. If we're

703
00:58:23,647 --> 00:58:27,834
going to have, uh. Yeah, thank you. Councillor Neal, you

704
00:58:27,834 --> 00:58:32,029
have the floor. Yeah. Thanks Mr. Chair. Uh, thanks Mr.

705
00:58:32,130 --> 00:58:39,739
Gloss for your presentation. You mentioned deliverables. In your Delegation.

706
00:58:41,102 --> 00:58:46,281
And to put this off basically to 2027 under Bill

707
00:58:46,542 --> 00:58:50,201
100 with an appointed chair coming forward. In your opinion

708
00:58:50,302 --> 00:58:53,961
with that, uh, have any significance or would that help

709
00:58:54,462 --> 00:59:02,183
out this police budget. Um, I, I'm no political expert.

710
00:59:02,183 --> 00:59:04,583
I think that there's so much unknown. And I think

711
00:59:04,583 --> 00:59:08,023
even the report, if I read it correctly suggests that

712
00:59:08,444 --> 00:59:12,183
the change in the appointed chair is making that very

713
00:59:12,284 --> 00:59:14,823
unknown. So this is another factor on why this should

714
00:59:14,823 --> 00:59:17,303
be deferred. And I support that. I think it's reasonable

715
00:59:17,484 --> 00:59:26,574
and rational. Okay. Thank you. Petten guild. Thank you. Thank

716
00:59:26,574 --> 00:59:28,574
you very much. And through you. Thank you very much

717
00:59:28,614 --> 00:59:32,734
for this presentation. When you talked about a more business

718
00:59:33,155 --> 00:59:35,774
case scenario, do you mean something like you would like

719
00:59:35,774 --> 00:59:40,334
to see metrics based on the size of the police

720
00:59:41,315 --> 00:59:44,414
force versus safety in the community? Is that the kind

721
00:59:44,414 --> 00:59:49,854
of metric you're looking for? Um, well, if we use

722
00:59:51,875 --> 00:59:57,193
response times as an example. Right? We've invested considerable amount

723
00:59:57,294 --> 01:00:05,033
of resources and officer time. In 2021, the response time

724
01:00:05,054 --> 01:00:09,978
was 7. 3. Minutes. The standard is 7. 5. That

725
01:00:10,018 --> 01:00:16,830
was 2021. Um, it's grown to 8. 2, 9. 5,

726
01:00:16,931 --> 01:00:20,650
9. 2. And it's currently trending around 9. 2. Um,

727
01:00:20,851 --> 01:00:26,110
the standard is 7. So we heard this big presentation

728
01:00:26,131 --> 01:00:29,310
of all of this new money. But where is the

729
01:00:29,731 --> 01:00:32,990
stated goals in terms of we're going to improve and

730
01:00:32,990 --> 01:00:37,210
we're going to, this will deliver a 7. 5, uh,

731
01:00:37,491 --> 01:00:41,310
response time. Uh, this is going to improve our clearance

732
01:00:41,331 --> 01:00:45,870
rates by X. This is going to give us not

733
01:00:45,910 --> 01:00:50,270
2, 300 community walking foot patrol, bike patrol hours. This

734
01:00:50,270 --> 01:00:53,070
is going to get, I want to see with all

735
01:00:53,070 --> 01:00:57,550
of those investments and all of these improvements, what particular

736
01:00:57,651 --> 01:01:02,030
are the deliverables for those things. Um, because when you,

737
01:01:02,030 --> 01:01:06,030
you know, ask a lot, you should be giving a

738
01:01:06,030 --> 01:01:08,270
lot in return. And I'm not saying that our police

739
01:01:08,310 --> 01:01:11,310
officers don't give back. They do tremendous work. I had

740
01:01:11,310 --> 01:01:14,110
a conversation with one on Sunday going to my mom's.

741
01:01:14,150 --> 01:01:15,950
I was going a little bit too fast up near

742
01:01:15,971 --> 01:01:20,590
Goodwood Road. Um, great work. But we need to basically

743
01:01:20,771 --> 01:01:26,010
make these budgets, um, not just for the police, but

744
01:01:26,931 --> 01:01:30,750
all of our divisions much more outcome focused for residents.

745
01:01:30,750 --> 01:01:32,970
Because I just, I'm not seeing that. So do you

746
01:01:32,970 --> 01:01:34,430
think it's, first of all, do you think that is

747
01:01:34,691 --> 01:01:38,555
a predictable. Metric that can be given back to you

748
01:01:38,896 --> 01:01:41,995
and is a precedents for it and other police forces?

749
01:01:41,995 --> 01:01:43,595
Do you think that they're able to say with this

750
01:01:43,635 --> 01:01:48,475
money exactly project what the deliverals will be? Well, what

751
01:01:48,475 --> 01:01:51,755
else are you basing any additional staff or investments on

752
01:01:52,016 --> 01:01:56,850
otherwise. If you don't have that understanding of, okay, here's

753
01:01:56,890 --> 01:02:00,210
where we are now, here's our problems. It's taken us

754
01:02:00,231 --> 01:02:02,570
a little longer in the north to get there. If

755
01:02:02,570 --> 01:02:06,410
we invest 20 percent more or whatever here, this is

756
01:02:06,410 --> 01:02:09,650
going to improve that. Um, I'm not hearing any of

757
01:02:09,650 --> 01:02:12,770
that. I'm hearing a lot of, you know, very serious

758
01:02:12,871 --> 01:02:16,130
issues about buildings and things like that safety and all

759
01:02:16,130 --> 01:02:19,570
of those things. But I'm not hearing the resident impact.

760
01:02:20,082 --> 01:02:22,621
And at the end of the day, it's the resident

761
01:02:22,621 --> 01:02:27,401
who's paying the property taxes very significant property taxes, not

762
01:02:27,401 --> 01:02:31,421
only the last four years, but going forward as well.

763
01:02:31,461 --> 01:02:35,826
I just didn't print it. Thanks very much. Thank you.

764
01:02:36,327 --> 01:02:41,346
Councillor. Thank you Mr. Glass for your advocacy. I think

765
01:02:41,607 --> 01:02:45,186
you're, uh, probably my inbox is full of your correspondence

766
01:02:45,207 --> 01:02:46,606
more than anyone. And I know you put a lot

767
01:02:46,606 --> 01:02:49,026
of work and thought into it. So thank you for

768
01:02:49,207 --> 01:02:55,426
your, uh, participation today. Um, folks, we've got a couple

769
01:02:55,426 --> 01:02:57,806
of reports that should go quickly. And then we'll get

770
01:02:57,806 --> 01:03:02,306
to the, uh, main event. There was a miscommunication in

771
01:03:02,306 --> 01:03:05,486
regards to the chief being a delegate. So I've, uh,

772
01:03:06,007 --> 01:03:09,026
going to allow him to speak to the report. And

773
01:03:09,026 --> 01:03:12,306
then we'll have an opportunity to, uh, have questions of

774
01:03:12,306 --> 01:03:17,026
the chief. So we moved to Administration. There is correspondence,

775
01:03:17,026 --> 01:03:21,186
uh, from the region of Halton, which, um, the recommendations

776
01:03:21,527 --> 01:03:26,322
receive for information. Chair Henry. I'd like to give you.

777
01:03:26,320 --> 01:03:30,031
An alternate recommendation. I'd like to. Give you a recommendation

778
01:03:30,132 --> 01:03:35,034
to endorse. This item. Uh, also include the region of

779
01:03:35,215 --> 01:03:38,554
Durham's position and that it be sent to the premier

780
01:03:40,255 --> 01:03:47,106
minister flack. These five other regional governments and the MPPs

781
01:03:47,367 --> 01:03:52,079
in Durham region. Okay. Recommendation from the chair is to

782
01:03:52,180 --> 01:03:58,719
endorse as well as, um, include the Region's position as

783
01:03:58,740 --> 01:04:07,999
well as copy to the members listed. Secretary Councillor Council.

784
01:04:07,999 --> 01:04:12,799
I know I'm looking right at you Councillor Pattel. Debate.

785
01:04:15,046 --> 01:04:19,537
Members. Councillor Neal. Councillor Neal.

786
01:04:25,438 --> 01:04:27,097
Council Neal, can you put a request in again, please?

787
01:04:30,975 --> 01:04:35,432
It's not working. They're dumping out. Go ahead and vote.

788
01:04:35,432 --> 01:04:38,072
I'd appreciate it. Request or record and vote. I'd appreciate

789
01:04:38,093 --> 01:04:40,821
it. There's no one from Osha on this committee. So.

790
01:04:41,650 --> 01:04:47,253
Okay. Thank you. Uh, there is a request for recorded

791
01:04:47,293 --> 01:04:52,699
voters. Is there any further debate. All those, oh, sorry.

792
01:04:52,699 --> 01:04:56,038
We're going to have a recorded vote. Oh, sorry. Uh,

793
01:04:56,479 --> 01:05:01,869
recorded vote has to be requested by. The court vote

794
01:05:01,869 --> 01:05:05,355
requested by Chair Henry. Madam Clerk, we do the role,

795
01:05:05,355 --> 01:05:05,515
please.

796
01:05:20,177 --> 01:05:25,960
Looking for Councillor Crawford. The green. Or the red.

797
01:05:35,305 --> 01:05:39,524
That vote is 70 with one absent. So it passes.

798
01:05:39,524 --> 01:05:43,924
We now move to reports of administration. There's two reports.

799
01:05:43,924 --> 01:05:47,364
One is appointment of new member to the Durham Advisory

800
01:05:48,505 --> 01:05:52,644
Accessibility Advisory Committee. The recommendation is listed in our document

801
01:05:52,745 --> 01:05:57,593
to appoint Annika Reed. Kind of a recommendation. Um, motion.

802
01:05:59,925 --> 01:06:05,024
Chair Henry moves consent on the Reports for the appointment

803
01:06:05,205 --> 01:06:06,944
of the new member as well as the extension of

804
01:06:06,944 --> 01:06:10,624
the agreement for annual reports on, I'm not even going

805
01:06:10,624 --> 01:06:14,064
to try that word. From First Base Solutions, do I

806
01:06:14,064 --> 01:06:19,062
have seconder for that? Councillor Crawford and he pulls. Being

807
01:06:19,083 --> 01:06:20,742
none. I'm going to call the question all those in

808
01:06:20,782 --> 01:06:25,187
favor. Oppose that items carried. Uh, where we moved to

809
01:06:25,227 --> 01:06:31,481
Finance Chief. Do you want to get comfortable? Because I

810
01:06:31,521 --> 01:06:35,401
know you, uh, look very comfortable at the sitting down

811
01:06:35,422 --> 01:06:38,921
the other day. So if it's okay, sir, I'll stay

812
01:06:38,961 --> 01:06:42,361
here. Okay. Thank you. Um, this is in regards to

813
01:06:42,401 --> 01:06:48,601
the report. For the Durham Regional Police Services Financing Strategy,

814
01:06:48,601 --> 01:06:52,441
uh, the recommendation is to receive for information. Um, but

815
01:06:52,702 --> 01:06:56,198
chief, you have the floor. I very much appreciate that.

816
01:06:56,198 --> 01:07:01,478
And, um, hearing some of the delegations here is right

817
01:07:01,499 --> 01:07:07,158
down, um, some, some, um, introductory comments if I could.

818
01:07:07,158 --> 01:07:09,398
So one of the concerns I have here is that

819
01:07:09,419 --> 01:07:12,038
this report and certainly some of the questions that are

820
01:07:12,078 --> 01:07:14,918
being asked is conflating these conditions of our building with

821
01:07:14,939 --> 01:07:18,038
a capital plan. This is much more than just capital.

822
01:07:18,038 --> 01:07:21,398
This is much more than just infrastructure. This is about,

823
01:07:21,398 --> 01:07:25,558
uh, members. This is about, um, technology. This is about

824
01:07:25,659 --> 01:07:28,018
investments in the whole of service. And so, you know,

825
01:07:29,419 --> 01:07:32,998
the community will ask questions of us with regards to

826
01:07:33,099 --> 01:07:36,758
emerging crime trends and what this report does is it

827
01:07:36,798 --> 01:07:40,758
addresses much more than just the state of our facilities.

828
01:07:40,758 --> 01:07:43,538
And I think we've spoken at nauseam about those, uh,

829
01:07:43,979 --> 01:07:45,158
the state of that. So I want to make sure

830
01:07:45,158 --> 01:07:48,678
that we're not conflating the two things. Um, the, the,

831
01:07:48,678 --> 01:07:51,718
um, the other, uh, issue is that even if we

832
01:07:51,819 --> 01:07:54,998
were just to take the facilities by themselves and say,

833
01:07:54,998 --> 01:07:57,798
let's fix these things, these buildings no longer meet our

834
01:07:57,838 --> 01:08:01,958
needs, period, like full stop. It's that the condition of

835
01:08:01,958 --> 01:08:04,838
our buildings is just good money after bad. We need

836
01:08:04,838 --> 01:08:06,678
to move on. We need to have a plan and

837
01:08:06,678 --> 01:08:09,238
we need to move on. This is an election year.

838
01:08:09,238 --> 01:08:12,038
And I recognise the candidates will be advanced ambitious and

839
01:08:12,078 --> 01:08:15,078
at times unrealistic commitments. And I understand the pressures that

840
01:08:15,118 --> 01:08:17,638
that creates for all of you at the door, you

841
01:08:17,739 --> 01:08:21,354
are hearing about affordability. At the same time, you're hearing

842
01:08:21,375 --> 01:08:25,034
that the community safety remains a top priority. So I

843
01:08:25,055 --> 01:08:27,754
want to start by thanking those who have supported recent

844
01:08:27,754 --> 01:08:31,274
police budgets, budgets that were required to begin to address

845
01:08:31,295 --> 01:08:35,114
the impacts of prolonged underinvestment. I use that word deliberately.

846
01:08:35,699 --> 01:08:38,398
To be clear, we did not choose this moment to

847
01:08:38,438 --> 01:08:41,198
bring these matters forward. This is the wrong time to

848
01:08:41,198 --> 01:08:43,438
be doing it. I've been talking about this for three

849
01:08:43,478 --> 01:08:45,918
years and our capital plan has been part of our

850
01:08:46,579 --> 01:08:55,313
budget submissions. And it predates me. And I wish we

851
01:08:55,353 --> 01:08:58,279
weren't this far behind. The situation we were in today

852
01:08:58,319 --> 01:09:01,239
is the result of years of inadequate strategic planning and

853
01:09:01,279 --> 01:09:04,971
investments. Ignoring the obvious. Many of the needs that we

854
01:09:05,011 --> 01:09:09,171
are discussing today were identified decades ago, but deferred. At

855
01:09:09,171 --> 01:09:12,011
the same time, other police services moved forward with stronger

856
01:09:12,032 --> 01:09:16,791
reserves, capital plans aligned to their assets and goals. And

857
01:09:16,791 --> 01:09:22,316
in some cases, revenue from property investments and dispositions. Our

858
01:09:22,337 --> 01:09:25,356
capital requirements are not new. They have been well understood

859
01:09:25,396 --> 01:09:27,916
by both the board and the region for some time.

860
01:09:28,360 --> 01:09:30,579
You have the main report before you, but I strongly

861
01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:34,819
urge you to prioritize attachment one. This document contains critical

862
01:09:35,000 --> 01:09:40,339
operational context behind the Financial forecast. Context that, unlike other

863
01:09:40,440 --> 01:09:47,136
regional strategies, has been placed in independence. Despite our collaboration,

864
01:09:47,136 --> 01:09:50,016
the region, not Regional Staff, decided to move key operational

865
01:09:50,677 --> 01:09:54,656
rationale to the back of this report minutes after I

866
01:09:54,656 --> 01:09:59,056
finished my presentation on Friday. This contrasts with previous major

867
01:09:59,157 --> 01:10:02,576
strategies, such as the housing and homelessness plan where full

868
01:10:02,616 --> 01:10:07,279
context was presented to Council up front. I also want

869
01:10:07,279 --> 01:10:10,159
to address the narrative that has emerged in recent days.

870
01:10:10,199 --> 01:10:13,039
There's been a suggestion that all DRPS budget requests were

871
01:10:13,079 --> 01:10:16,879
fully endorsed through past Council approvals. This obviously is a

872
01:10:16,919 --> 01:10:19,999
mischaracterization of the process. Final vote is only part of

873
01:10:19,999 --> 01:10:24,637
the budget cycle. And I say this because between 2010

874
01:10:24,677 --> 01:10:28,637
and 2017, the service experience, no net new growth and

875
01:10:28,637 --> 01:10:32,627
uniform staffing. No net new growth and uniform staffing. And

876
01:10:32,748 --> 01:10:37,287
even saw reduction in its civilian, um, deployment, despite increasing

877
01:10:37,388 --> 01:10:41,753
demands. During that same period, police board sent budgets to

878
01:10:41,934 --> 01:10:44,873
council that identified base pressures. And these are the costs

879
01:10:44,913 --> 01:10:49,315
for just maintaining current service levels, zero strategic investments. This

880
01:10:49,336 --> 01:10:53,243
means just keeping the lights on. However, in many years,

881
01:10:53,243 --> 01:11:01,403
including 2011, 12, 15, 16, 17, 2020 and 21 council

882
01:11:01,443 --> 01:11:06,043
proved increases did not even cover the base operating pressures,

883
01:11:06,043 --> 01:11:10,363
effectively resulting in a form of structural defunding. This was,

884
01:11:10,363 --> 01:11:15,793
or ought to have been known. Across those years, the

885
01:11:15,793 --> 01:11:19,973
service absorbed a cumulative shortfall of approximately 3. 75 percent.

886
01:11:21,075 --> 01:11:25,134
And internally mitigate pressures, including holding positions vacant. Even with

887
01:11:25,134 --> 01:11:27,214
the investments made in the last two years, we are

888
01:11:27,254 --> 01:11:30,574
still managing the impacts of that, which is a 47

889
01:11:30,755 --> 01:11:35,046
million dollar cumulative gap. That means from 2010 to roughly

890
01:11:35,387 --> 01:11:38,326
2023, there was little to no net new growth or

891
01:11:38,326 --> 01:11:42,886
strategic investment in policing. Well, every other regional service expanded.

892
01:11:42,926 --> 01:11:47,366
Although officials, uh, often claim otherwise, policing has not been

893
01:11:47,406 --> 01:11:51,286
the primary cause of increased regional, um, spending. And the

894
01:11:51,286 --> 01:11:56,574
numbers do not lie. Growth in gross budget between 2018

895
01:11:56,595 --> 01:12:00,094
and 2025, the region saw 73 and a half percent

896
01:12:00,134 --> 01:12:03,534
increase in its gross budget. During this period of time,

897
01:12:04,115 --> 01:12:06,974
Durham transits saw the greatest growth in its gross budget

898
01:12:06,974 --> 01:12:13,534
by 158. Followed by social services at 87. 3 health

899
01:12:13,555 --> 01:12:17,493
care at 68. 9. Durham police is fourth on that

900
01:12:17,533 --> 01:12:21,013
list of five. At 55. 9 followed closely by public

901
01:12:21,114 --> 01:12:26,674
works. In terms of net budgets. Very similar, where we

902
01:12:26,674 --> 01:12:31,434
finish second last only to public works. In fact, the

903
01:12:31,695 --> 01:12:34,714
share of the total regional growth spending has declined for

904
01:12:35,135 --> 01:12:39,114
the police has declined from 18. 1 percent in 2018

905
01:12:42,015 --> 01:12:44,874
just to compare the same number of years with only

906
01:12:44,914 --> 01:12:47,674
a modest increase in our most latest budget to 16.

907
01:12:47,695 --> 01:12:51,594
9 percent in 2026 Everybody else has grown in the

908
01:12:51,594 --> 01:12:55,988
opposite direction. We've gone backwards. In closing, I want to

909
01:12:55,988 --> 01:13:00,017
be very clear. DRPS is not an outlier. We represent

910
01:13:00,358 --> 01:13:04,925
about 30 cents of every regional tax dollar. By comparison,

911
01:13:05,266 --> 01:13:09,725
York Regional Police represents about 32 cents of every tax

912
01:13:09,725 --> 01:13:15,085
dollar. Halton police 41 cents peel regional police 43 cents.

913
01:13:15,085 --> 01:13:18,125
And I will say this, peal has dedicated reserve, something

914
01:13:18,125 --> 01:13:20,445
we asked for. And I was directed by the board

915
01:13:20,485 --> 01:13:24,348
to seek. And they also have a dedicated community safety

916
01:13:24,388 --> 01:13:28,348
levy to fund future capital projects. In fact, peel just

917
01:13:28,348 --> 01:13:31,468
recently approved at 1. 7 billion 10 year capital plan

918
01:13:31,508 --> 01:13:34,588
to address the exact same pressures that I'm discussing here.

919
01:13:34,588 --> 01:13:37,881
And their buildings are 20 years newer than ours. When

920
01:13:37,982 --> 01:13:41,001
viewed in that context, the issue is not that Durham

921
01:13:41,041 --> 01:13:45,980
is ahead. We are woefully behind. I know it's difficult,

922
01:13:45,980 --> 01:13:47,900
particularly for those who have been supportive to hear that

923
01:13:47,900 --> 01:13:50,300
we have been in effect deferring these pressures for years.

924
01:13:50,510 --> 01:13:54,999
But this is not about blame. It's about acknowledging where

925
01:13:54,999 --> 01:13:58,289
we are today. We cannot continue to delay and I

926
01:13:58,289 --> 01:14:01,089
urge you to approve our 10 - year capital plan.

927
01:14:01,129 --> 01:14:03,969
I appreciate the opportunity to speak to you. My focus

928
01:14:03,990 --> 01:14:06,609
today was not a repeating my prior presentation, but to

929
01:14:06,609 --> 01:14:10,769
explain how we got here and why now. When interacting

930
01:14:10,809 --> 01:14:14,449
with your constituents, I understand that affordability and public safety

931
01:14:14,470 --> 01:14:18,057
will be key considerations. These concerns are equally important to

932
01:14:18,078 --> 01:14:20,617
our members who serve reside and raise families here in

933
01:14:20,617 --> 01:14:23,177
our region. That is why we are committed to sharing

934
01:14:23,217 --> 01:14:26,457
this context openly with the community so that they understand

935
01:14:26,558 --> 01:14:29,717
the context in which these investments must be made. And

936
01:14:29,717 --> 01:14:32,413
what has led us to this point here. And what

937
01:14:32,434 --> 01:14:36,013
has led to this critical juncture that this committee has

938
01:14:36,053 --> 01:14:39,255
to deal with right now. Thank you. Thank you, chief.

939
01:14:40,284 --> 01:14:42,903
Uh, I have one question before I go to committee.

940
01:14:42,903 --> 01:14:46,103
Uh, chief about a month ago you graciously hosted me

941
01:14:46,444 --> 01:14:49,943
and your office and we chatted about, um, the service

942
01:14:50,924 --> 01:14:53,703
and you indicated to me at the time that your

943
01:14:53,703 --> 01:14:58,903
chief priority was, uh, capital, uh, and that, uh, you,

944
01:14:58,943 --> 01:15:01,303
you, you, you were thankful that you were successful in

945
01:15:01,303 --> 01:15:05,298
terms of, uh, new operating positions. I then see this

946
01:15:05,319 --> 01:15:09,938
document that, um, has a very aggressive capital, uh, obviously

947
01:15:09,978 --> 01:15:19,038
needed, uh, acknowledge that. But 129 new employees 92, uh,

948
01:15:19,239 --> 01:15:25,458
uniforms in 37 civilian. Could you speak to that dual

949
01:15:25,559 --> 01:15:32,050
need. Sorry. Which is there a particular page at your,

950
01:15:32,071 --> 01:15:35,200
your referring to. I just want to make sure I'm

951
01:15:35,240 --> 01:15:38,480
commenting summary of the new position request, which is on

952
01:15:38,480 --> 01:15:41,171
attachment too. Oh, okay. I don't, I don't have the

953
01:15:41,192 --> 01:15:44,051
regions a report in front of me here. Give me

954
01:15:44,051 --> 01:15:48,211
those numbers again, please. It speaks to, uh, the, the

955
01:15:48,312 --> 01:15:53,331
desire to have 129 new positions in 2027. 37 of

956
01:15:53,512 --> 01:15:57,011
which are civilian 92, which are uniformed. And then in

957
01:15:57,192 --> 01:16:03,331
2028, 126 positions with 28 being uniform civilian in 98

958
01:16:03,512 --> 01:16:12,384
being uniform. As always, Teresa. Comes through here.

959
01:16:17,628 --> 01:16:22,327
Yeah. So, so, um, 92 of those positions are, our

960
01:16:22,367 --> 01:16:26,647
frontline positions. Uh, or sorry, uniform positions. 30 of them

961
01:16:26,687 --> 01:16:29,367
are frontline. We have, um, you know, and to Mr.

962
01:16:29,468 --> 01:16:32,407
Glasses point, we actually lead the province in terms of

963
01:16:32,748 --> 01:16:35,687
clearance rates for any of our comparators right across this

964
01:16:35,727 --> 01:16:39,287
province. Our officers do an incredible job of clearing occurrences.

965
01:16:39,287 --> 01:16:42,647
And they do so with some significant vacancies that exist.

966
01:16:42,647 --> 01:16:44,167
One of the things that I've committed to the board

967
01:16:44,508 --> 01:16:48,707
is that again, this is a projection moving forward. And

968
01:16:48,707 --> 01:16:52,807
granted 2027 is the most immediate, uh, need. Um, and

969
01:16:53,468 --> 01:16:55,687
we are working right now with the Ontario Police College

970
01:16:55,727 --> 01:16:58,727
to see. I'm not going to come to Council with

971
01:16:58,748 --> 01:17:02,087
a bunch of requests for positions I can't reasonably expect

972
01:17:02,127 --> 01:17:04,807
we're going to have seats for. And so we, we

973
01:17:04,807 --> 01:17:07,207
are basically saying if we fill every spot this year

974
01:17:07,308 --> 01:17:08,887
and we have all the spots and we know that

975
01:17:08,908 --> 01:17:11,527
we're going to be allocated, we could use up to

976
01:17:12,028 --> 01:17:15,927
this number of officers. That work continues. And the board,

977
01:17:15,927 --> 01:17:18,087
um, you know, you may find this hard to believe.

978
01:17:18,087 --> 01:17:20,327
There's not rubber stamp everything I say. They ask some

979
01:17:20,367 --> 01:17:23,127
difficult questions and they make me go back, uh, to

980
01:17:23,167 --> 01:17:26,567
Mr. Glass'point produce more and more material to justify what

981
01:17:26,607 --> 01:17:30,007
the asks are. Um, but I'm unapologetic about what I

982
01:17:30,007 --> 01:17:32,167
think that we need in order to make sure that

983
01:17:32,188 --> 01:17:34,887
we're meeting the demands. The other thing as well is

984
01:17:34,908 --> 01:17:37,967
that the demands, um, continue to evolve and change. As

985
01:17:37,967 --> 01:17:41,287
you can appreciate AI and technology is changing the nature

986
01:17:41,308 --> 01:17:44,807
of harm and how our communities are impacted. This requires

987
01:17:45,228 --> 01:17:47,927
an investment of people to do this work in addition

988
01:17:47,927 --> 01:17:50,727
to the existing work that we're doing. And, uh, just

989
01:17:50,767 --> 01:17:52,727
last night and, you know, we'll soon talk about this

990
01:17:52,828 --> 01:17:55,567
publicly, but, you know, just last night, some of those

991
01:17:55,567 --> 01:18:00,727
officers that, um, working with technology, literally saved the life

992
01:18:00,727 --> 01:18:03,687
of a very young person. And, uh, I'm hoping to

993
01:18:03,727 --> 01:18:06,647
share that with the community soon. Thank you. Follow -

994
01:18:06,647 --> 01:18:13,607
up question chief. We heard today about the dire requirements

995
01:18:15,308 --> 01:18:19,047
and shortcomings of the North Division. And in your projections,

996
01:18:19,087 --> 01:18:24,167
this is your document. You don't envision having new building

997
01:18:24,348 --> 01:18:29,535
until 2032. You front loaded a lot of the requests.

998
01:18:30,834 --> 01:18:34,893
Is a rationale on why that's delayed so much? Uh,

999
01:18:35,474 --> 01:18:38,893
because I have so many needs. This isn't a one

1000
01:18:38,933 --> 01:18:40,573
- off need. Um, the very first thing I have

1001
01:18:40,613 --> 01:18:42,813
to do is deliver adequate and effect the policing, which

1002
01:18:42,813 --> 01:18:46,973
means training. And there's mandatory yearly training. I am bursting

1003
01:18:46,973 --> 01:18:50,733
at the seams. We no longer have capacity to deal

1004
01:18:50,773 --> 01:18:53,033
with, uh, the issues that we have at the, uh,

1005
01:18:53,074 --> 01:18:56,813
at our training facility. Um, this becomes the critical need

1006
01:18:57,234 --> 01:18:59,693
because I could wipe out the entire service by trying

1007
01:18:59,733 --> 01:19:02,313
to address one issue in the north. The other, uh,

1008
01:19:02,313 --> 01:19:05,533
issue is, and you know, Chair Henry raises this, you've

1009
01:19:05,533 --> 01:19:08,093
had a solution for the North, that money was actually

1010
01:19:08,834 --> 01:19:12,573
added to our budget in 2023 or 24. Um, I

1011
01:19:12,613 --> 01:19:16,093
can't remember which year it was. At least the starting

1012
01:19:16,434 --> 01:19:19,213
point of it. And, um, I just didn't feel that

1013
01:19:19,234 --> 01:19:22,653
that was, you know, fair. It was actually taking resources

1014
01:19:22,754 --> 01:19:24,653
away from the things that I actually need to do

1015
01:19:24,834 --> 01:19:27,773
in order to accomplish other things. There's an interim solution

1016
01:19:28,034 --> 01:19:31,613
for Scugog. I will admit there is an interim solution.

1017
01:19:31,613 --> 01:19:32,893
But even if we were to fix all of those

1018
01:19:33,074 --> 01:19:36,653
problems, the reality is that the station doesn't mean our

1019
01:19:36,693 --> 01:19:39,053
needs. And for all the reasons that I heard Mr.

1020
01:19:39,093 --> 01:19:42,173
Neal and others have discussed certainly in all, every time

1021
01:19:42,173 --> 01:19:46,573
I've been in this council chamber, um, that there's a

1022
01:19:46,613 --> 01:19:50,013
long - term issue that, that exists in Scugog that

1023
01:19:50,013 --> 01:19:51,853
needs to be dealt with. And I'm trying to be

1024
01:19:51,874 --> 01:19:56,035
as reasonable as I can. Okay. Thank you. It's clear

1025
01:19:57,256 --> 01:20:01,155
there is, uh, it appears into long - term plansome

1026
01:20:01,176 --> 01:20:06,275
interim spending that probably deals with that issue. Um, Councillor

1027
01:20:06,315 --> 01:20:08,835
Crawford, you have questions for the chief. Thank you. Thank

1028
01:20:08,875 --> 01:20:14,355
you for your presentation. Um, my question is, and please

1029
01:20:14,355 --> 01:20:17,875
don't be offended. No, no. In March, uh, there was

1030
01:20:17,875 --> 01:20:24,095
an ask for, uh, to convert operating into capital, uh,

1031
01:20:24,376 --> 01:20:30,355
through, uh, I guess efficiencies. This was asked in 2025,

1032
01:20:30,355 --> 01:20:34,355
there was a surplus of 2. 3 million. And the

1033
01:20:34,376 --> 01:20:40,515
remaining was found in 2026 of 2. 1 million that

1034
01:20:40,515 --> 01:20:45,235
were operating, they were operating asks of those two budget

1035
01:20:45,416 --> 01:20:49,635
years. However, uh, they were not used. So I guess

1036
01:20:49,656 --> 01:20:55,055
I'm asking, uh, how did those efficiencies come about? Why

1037
01:20:55,055 --> 01:20:59,375
were they not hired if the dire need for, uh,

1038
01:21:00,936 --> 01:21:02,675
and I'm not suggesting there isn't, but I'm just saying

1039
01:21:03,416 --> 01:21:07,235
to two million dollars back to back in back to

1040
01:21:07,275 --> 01:21:10,515
back years suggests that perhaps, I don't know what that

1041
01:21:10,936 --> 01:21:13,955
actually suggests. So could you please explain that to me?

1042
01:21:14,136 --> 01:21:17,615
No, absolutely. That's a, that's a great question. So, um,

1043
01:21:17,656 --> 01:21:20,435
the president of the association just spoke about one of

1044
01:21:20,435 --> 01:21:23,135
those incidents that happened where members are attacked. It's not

1045
01:21:23,135 --> 01:21:26,195
the only station in which this has happened. The security

1046
01:21:26,235 --> 01:21:29,075
review revealed a number of different areas. And we're trying

1047
01:21:29,075 --> 01:21:31,955
to split up the costs over multiple budget years so

1048
01:21:31,995 --> 01:21:34,755
that we can accomplish all this work. The reality is

1049
01:21:34,795 --> 01:21:36,995
that these are things because we don't have a reserve

1050
01:21:36,995 --> 01:21:40,275
to draw from. We have to find money through operating,

1051
01:21:40,275 --> 01:21:43,075
uh, efficiencies that we find. This means that we stop

1052
01:21:43,096 --> 01:21:46,675
doing other things to do this instead because we have

1053
01:21:46,696 --> 01:21:49,475
no reserves. Something the board has directed me to do.

1054
01:21:49,475 --> 01:21:51,875
The reality is that the security issues that we're facing

1055
01:21:52,696 --> 01:21:55,875
are occurring in every single one of our buildings. There

1056
01:21:55,875 --> 01:21:58,115
is just so many things that have not been addressed

1057
01:21:59,416 --> 01:22:03,155
properly that we are continuing to have to find operating

1058
01:22:03,176 --> 01:22:05,715
funds to deal with it again, because we have no

1059
01:22:05,755 --> 01:22:11,481
reserves. So you stop hiring. So that you could do

1060
01:22:11,502 --> 01:22:15,309
a capital project. Sir. I'm just, just, just, just give

1061
01:22:15,309 --> 01:22:24,231
me one. I mean, operating his body, right? Teresa, if

1062
01:22:24,231 --> 01:22:27,522
you want to sit down, it's fine. Yeah. Yeah. It

1063
01:22:28,183 --> 01:22:30,562
was just getting the number here. We're talking about less

1064
01:22:30,602 --> 01:22:35,202
than one percent, right, of, of the surplus that happened.

1065
01:22:35,202 --> 01:22:38,002
And, um, this is the challenges that we have when

1066
01:22:38,042 --> 01:22:41,602
we have to wait for our budget cycle, as it's

1067
01:22:41,602 --> 01:22:44,722
set up. Um, is, is not efficient. And so when

1068
01:22:44,762 --> 01:22:47,762
we are competing with every other police service to hire

1069
01:22:47,762 --> 01:22:51,122
people and to get spots at the Ontario Police College

1070
01:22:51,143 --> 01:22:53,882
or to fill other spots, these things take time. In

1071
01:22:53,882 --> 01:22:56,242
the other thing, in terms of the civilian hires that

1072
01:22:56,263 --> 01:22:59,682
we're making, these are very specialized roles and they just

1073
01:22:59,722 --> 01:23:02,722
take longer to hire. So we delay some of these

1074
01:23:03,383 --> 01:23:06,002
and, and look for those efficiencies, but our surplus was

1075
01:23:06,002 --> 01:23:08,642
less than one percent. So can you explain to me

1076
01:23:08,642 --> 01:23:12,892
that budget cycle, why is that such an issue. Well,

1077
01:23:12,932 --> 01:23:16,252
because the Ontario police college has a finite number of

1078
01:23:16,292 --> 01:23:19,852
seats available. And every other police service is hiring. Appeal

1079
01:23:19,852 --> 01:23:22,332
region last year hired 300 people. That impacted how many

1080
01:23:22,353 --> 01:23:24,652
seats are available for us. And so when you look

1081
01:23:24,652 --> 01:23:28,946
at what does your what does our budget cycle. Do

1082
01:23:28,986 --> 01:23:32,226
for you? Like I don't it's because our money doesn't

1083
01:23:32,266 --> 01:23:34,546
come in at the first of the year. It comes

1084
01:23:34,647 --> 01:23:36,706
in throughout the year. And so when you think about

1085
01:23:36,887 --> 01:23:39,586
how many positions that we actually have to hire and

1086
01:23:39,586 --> 01:23:44,146
then you incorporate that and add to it, just the

1087
01:23:44,327 --> 01:23:47,666
detractors that happen, people retire, people aren't available. All of

1088
01:23:47,666 --> 01:23:50,706
these things impact our ability to bring people, uh, onto

1089
01:23:50,727 --> 01:23:54,066
our organisation. And then to deploy them, to have them

1090
01:23:54,106 --> 01:23:58,306
trained and then deploy them. Our ETC, our education training

1091
01:23:58,346 --> 01:24:01,266
centre, the training facility I'm talking about has a finite

1092
01:24:01,367 --> 01:24:04,386
capacity there to take on people. So we have to,

1093
01:24:04,407 --> 01:24:07,826
we have to stagger this hiring. All of this impacts

1094
01:24:07,847 --> 01:24:10,946
our ability to, uh, to bring people on. And it

1095
01:24:10,946 --> 01:24:14,306
also affects what that surplus looks like. It's a different

1096
01:24:14,306 --> 01:24:18,236
parts. It's a different amounts and throughout the year. Okay.

1097
01:24:18,737 --> 01:24:22,636
Um, if I may ask the chair of your board

1098
01:24:22,737 --> 01:24:26,483
something or no. Let's wait till we finish with the

1099
01:24:26,483 --> 01:24:30,241
delegations. Okay. Thank you. We'll get to the report. Chief,

1100
01:24:30,241 --> 01:24:32,201
I, for one, happy you had a surplus dot of

1101
01:24:32,201 --> 01:24:39,310
deficit. And two million bucks on 352 million is. Half

1102
01:24:39,571 --> 01:24:43,276
almost just a half percent of your total budget. Councillor

1103
01:24:43,537 --> 01:24:47,445
Pettengel. You have the floor. Thank you very much. And

1104
01:24:47,445 --> 01:24:51,785
through you. Thank you again, Chief. Uh, just a question

1105
01:24:52,206 --> 01:24:55,945
with Peal. Did they, um, approve that 10 year plan

1106
01:24:56,366 --> 01:24:58,845
like during the budget or after the budget, do you

1107
01:24:58,845 --> 01:25:01,625
know? I don't know. I didn't want to do it

1108
01:25:01,625 --> 01:25:04,825
this time. I was asking if they did it through.

1109
01:25:04,825 --> 01:25:08,425
I, I, I don't know. Okay. Um, and I'll just

1110
01:25:08,465 --> 01:25:10,585
had to subtly curious. I've been here for a very

1111
01:25:10,585 --> 01:25:13,705
short time, as you know, we've got to tour some

1112
01:25:13,705 --> 01:25:16,185
of the other facilities, but do you ever offer tours

1113
01:25:16,185 --> 01:25:20,345
of your facilities too? At every single opportunity, I have,

1114
01:25:20,385 --> 01:25:23,945
I offer tours. Our uni commanders offer tours and we

1115
01:25:23,966 --> 01:25:26,825
sort of keep track of some of them, these buildings

1116
01:25:27,086 --> 01:25:29,865
and a ride along, two councillo. Yeah. I did a

1117
01:25:29,865 --> 01:25:33,836
ride alone. I got to wear a vest. Thank you.

1118
01:25:33,857 --> 01:25:36,476
We won't, we will show you all of our facilities.

1119
01:25:38,911 --> 01:25:42,150
Thank you. I'm waiting for the new helicopter. Chair Henry.

1120
01:25:43,096 --> 01:25:45,715
Uh, thank you, Chair. Chief, this is going to be

1121
01:25:45,715 --> 01:25:48,675
a couple of kind of sideline questions. So some latitude.

1122
01:25:48,675 --> 01:25:50,915
I know I signed some paperwork the other day for

1123
01:25:50,955 --> 01:25:55,155
your court costs that you recovered cash over four times.

1124
01:25:55,155 --> 01:25:56,515
I think it comes four times a year. And I'm

1125
01:25:56,515 --> 01:25:59,715
going by memory. That's 4. 4 million dollars. But I

1126
01:25:59,755 --> 01:26:04,435
think memories, I'm just, but that's only half the cost.

1127
01:26:05,510 --> 01:26:09,809
Yes. Wasn't at one time, weren't we supposed to get

1128
01:26:10,390 --> 01:26:15,233
full cost recovery. I believe at one point that was

1129
01:26:15,233 --> 01:26:18,673
true. I've actually raised this issue with the solicitor general

1130
01:26:18,774 --> 01:26:22,753
and the, uh, deputy Solster General for the province. And,

1131
01:26:22,753 --> 01:26:24,913
uh, also with the premier of the province at a

1132
01:26:24,913 --> 01:26:27,313
meeting I was at. And my role of at the

1133
01:26:27,494 --> 01:26:31,891
Enter Association, she said, please. So, um, that represents like

1134
01:26:32,152 --> 01:26:37,231
almost half a percent on the regions tax base, you

1135
01:26:37,231 --> 01:26:43,491
know, 8. 4, 4. 4 percent. Um, you often talk

1136
01:26:43,531 --> 01:26:46,531
about the costs related to the new, is it the

1137
01:26:46,952 --> 01:26:49,971
new community safety and wellbeing program that you have to

1138
01:26:50,011 --> 01:26:54,211
do in the increased costs that we're downloaded on the

1139
01:26:54,232 --> 01:26:57,311
service by a provincial decision. Not to catch you off

1140
01:26:57,351 --> 01:27:01,532
guard. What's the annualization of that. Um, well, a lot

1141
01:27:01,532 --> 01:27:03,872
of, the one - time cost, but then the annualization

1142
01:27:03,893 --> 01:27:06,992
will be in the replacement of some of that equipment.

1143
01:27:06,992 --> 01:27:09,312
And the training is never ends, right? That the accreditation

1144
01:27:09,653 --> 01:27:14,192
and the time off, uh, lost by maintaining the accreditation,

1145
01:27:14,192 --> 01:27:18,592
that that's an ongoing cost. It'll be a good. Just

1146
01:27:18,592 --> 01:27:22,272
there was a million dollar costs just for the immediate

1147
01:27:22,293 --> 01:27:24,992
need around vests and some of the equipment. We're mandatory

1148
01:27:25,032 --> 01:27:30,079
in the car. Yes. And chair, uh, one more question,

1149
01:27:30,079 --> 01:27:35,164
one more statement. Um. I know you can't quantify this,

1150
01:27:35,164 --> 01:27:37,724
but the cost of managing people that have been returned

1151
01:27:37,745 --> 01:27:43,001
into the community under mandatory police supervision. Um, the service

1152
01:27:43,041 --> 01:27:46,804
picks up that cost too. Do you have any idea

1153
01:27:47,305 --> 01:27:52,576
what that costs would be annually. That forms part of

1154
01:27:52,616 --> 01:27:56,176
the common law, um, requirements of the police. I don't

1155
01:27:56,437 --> 01:28:00,576
have that because we have a blend of that in

1156
01:28:00,576 --> 01:28:06,336
to our, our daily, you know, um, work. Um, the

1157
01:28:06,357 --> 01:28:10,016
real cost though, Chair actually comes not when somebody is

1158
01:28:10,016 --> 01:28:12,656
compliant when somebody is not compliant. And then the whole

1159
01:28:12,696 --> 01:28:14,976
criminal charge in some would argue, well, that's what the

1160
01:28:14,976 --> 01:28:18,256
police are there for. Um, the other, uh, thing in

1161
01:28:18,256 --> 01:28:22,496
terms of offenders that are released, um, uh, federal institutions,

1162
01:28:22,496 --> 01:28:26,096
the cost for that as well. And, um, that's outside

1163
01:28:26,117 --> 01:28:30,096
of the bail, um, follow - ups that we have.

1164
01:28:30,117 --> 01:28:32,816
So, uh, chief, last time I sat through one of

1165
01:28:32,816 --> 01:28:34,976
your meetings that you addressed your board. It was about

1166
01:28:35,157 --> 01:28:38,096
500 people. You were a babysitting in the community that

1167
01:28:38,136 --> 01:28:40,896
had nowhere else to go, but back into the community.

1168
01:28:40,896 --> 01:28:44,416
Um, there's a class. There's, you can quantify the labour,

1169
01:28:44,416 --> 01:28:47,296
but I, I'm going to say it's in the millions.

1170
01:28:47,317 --> 01:28:50,531
It doesn't, it doesn't really matter. Uh, chief here. And

1171
01:28:50,531 --> 01:28:53,271
this is a political question. So you feel free just

1172
01:28:53,271 --> 01:28:55,991
to not answer at all. Okay. But yesterday the province

1173
01:28:56,092 --> 01:28:59,191
made an announcement that said that, uh, that, uh, the

1174
01:28:59,191 --> 01:29:05,351
Adunsum Great Things 412, 418 407 that they'd removed the

1175
01:29:05,452 --> 01:29:07,671
tolls. I think that advocacy came from the region of

1176
01:29:07,692 --> 01:29:10,902
Durham and the pressure on the MPPs. But they also

1177
01:29:11,003 --> 01:29:14,192
talked about no new taxes. Those costs that have been

1178
01:29:14,232 --> 01:29:16,432
downloaded from the province to us are actually being paid

1179
01:29:16,472 --> 01:29:19,989
by the property tax base. And Chair, I want to

1180
01:29:20,170 --> 01:29:22,869
members of this committee know that that's probably at the

1181
01:29:22,869 --> 01:29:26,685
minimum an additional one percent. Of our budget goes to

1182
01:29:26,786 --> 01:29:29,245
funding things that the province doesn't fund, which has been

1183
01:29:29,266 --> 01:29:33,008
downloaded back onto municipal government. That's my opinion. I'm not

1184
01:29:33,109 --> 01:29:36,048
going to put Council in any position. Chief, it's probably

1185
01:29:36,048 --> 01:29:38,928
a question you don't want to respond to. Well, I,

1186
01:29:38,968 --> 01:29:41,888
I will say though, Chair, and you raise the issue

1187
01:29:41,909 --> 01:29:44,688
about, you know, the 51 million dollars in capital that's

1188
01:29:44,688 --> 01:29:48,288
been invested. I, I think it's poor planning to bring

1189
01:29:48,309 --> 01:29:50,528
one offs to Council. This is why I've been trying

1190
01:29:50,568 --> 01:29:52,288
to work on this 10 year plan for a long

1191
01:29:52,288 --> 01:29:55,488
time. And some of that 51 million dollars actually is

1192
01:29:55,669 --> 01:29:58,048
reflected in the 32 and a half million dollars we

1193
01:29:58,048 --> 01:30:00,608
got from the province for our helicopter. Like one of

1194
01:30:00,608 --> 01:30:03,328
those buildings is being offset by a portion of that.

1195
01:30:03,328 --> 01:30:05,888
So, um, and we also received this year 3. 5

1196
01:30:05,989 --> 01:30:09,248
percent or 3. 5 million dollars from the provincial government

1197
01:30:10,149 --> 01:30:12,368
for community safety grant. Like I want to be very,

1198
01:30:12,408 --> 01:30:14,768
very careful that while, you know, politicians are talking about

1199
01:30:15,269 --> 01:30:18,448
political things. I actually am talking about the things that

1200
01:30:18,549 --> 01:30:21,708
impact my ability to deliver adequate and effective service, uh,

1201
01:30:22,229 --> 01:30:24,688
to our community. So I just don't want those things

1202
01:30:24,709 --> 01:30:29,008
to be conflated and suggest that we don't appreciate where

1203
01:30:29,048 --> 01:30:33,088
the provincial government has made significant investments in our organisation.

1204
01:30:33,088 --> 01:30:35,008
And chief, just to follow up on that, and I

1205
01:30:35,008 --> 01:30:37,488
appreciate your response, it would have been nice to get,

1206
01:30:37,488 --> 01:30:40,608
uh, funding on the police helicopter for longer than five

1207
01:30:40,629 --> 01:30:43,888
years. Because in five years, that funding comes back onto

1208
01:30:43,989 --> 01:30:47,488
the tax base of the region of Durham, correct? Yes.

1209
01:30:47,488 --> 01:30:50,428
But we, we've been doing that for 26 years. And

1210
01:30:50,428 --> 01:30:54,048
so we're winding down the other helicopter program so that

1211
01:30:54,048 --> 01:30:57,328
we minimize the impact. But I'm just implying that the

1212
01:30:57,349 --> 01:31:02,711
gifts come with a price tag. Thank you. Uh, Councillor

1213
01:31:02,751 --> 01:31:09,783
Neal. John, he there.

1214
01:31:16,106 --> 01:31:19,285
A gold Council Mayor Collier and John, I'll put you

1215
01:31:19,285 --> 01:31:23,839
on next. Chair. I don't have questions for the chief,

1216
01:31:23,839 --> 01:31:25,839
but I would like to speak to the report. Remember

1217
01:31:25,860 --> 01:31:27,359
be the appropriate. We've got to get to the report

1218
01:31:27,380 --> 01:31:31,307
soon as the questions are done. Thank you. Councillor Neal.

1219
01:31:32,533 --> 01:31:36,496
Put your request in again, please. Don't touch anything.

1220
01:31:43,079 --> 01:31:50,138
One more time. Last chance. Please hit your request button.

1221
01:31:52,622 --> 01:31:58,314
Is he on the screen? Councillor Neal, you have the

1222
01:31:58,314 --> 01:32:03,047
floor. Yeah. Thanks Mr. Chair. To the chief. You know,

1223
01:32:03,047 --> 01:32:06,967
I want to thank you because, uh, Chris Bowie and

1224
01:32:07,068 --> 01:32:12,467
Superintendent Sateron in our area met with my community, uh,

1225
01:32:12,908 --> 01:32:16,613
while back on Friday night, which was great. But the

1226
01:32:16,874 --> 01:32:22,255
questions at North Quadrant in Oshawa. Years ago, of course,

1227
01:32:22,255 --> 01:32:26,095
the first regional chief was John Jenkins and now we

1228
01:32:26,095 --> 01:32:29,415
had Dave Edwards and, uh, chief McAlline finds and so

1229
01:32:29,415 --> 01:32:33,011
forth. But it seemed that there used to be a

1230
01:32:33,011 --> 01:32:36,131
police presence at the boys and girls clubs when I

1231
01:32:36,131 --> 01:32:39,011
was growing up at the schools. And now we have

1232
01:32:39,112 --> 01:32:41,411
a number of schools being built. It seems that the

1233
01:32:41,411 --> 01:32:45,331
youth are being disconnected for some reason. That's the feeling

1234
01:32:45,672 --> 01:32:49,331
of there. I'm just wondering, you don't explicitly say in

1235
01:32:49,371 --> 01:32:52,931
this paper, uh, how we can, uh, get to the

1236
01:32:52,971 --> 01:32:55,571
community and to the youth. And I know we have,

1237
01:32:55,571 --> 01:32:58,931
we've had issues out there in regards to retail and

1238
01:32:58,952 --> 01:33:04,750
theft and whatnot. What's your feelings on that. Well, through

1239
01:33:04,750 --> 01:33:09,184
the chair. Thank you for the question, Councillor Neal. I'll

1240
01:33:09,224 --> 01:33:12,704
say this. My report actually, uh, maybe not the region's

1241
01:33:12,704 --> 01:33:16,144
report. My presentation spoke to the services that we're going

1242
01:33:16,144 --> 01:33:19,504
to deliver. And one of the important, uh, investments that

1243
01:33:19,525 --> 01:33:23,584
we're making, uh, as it relates to the, um, facilities

1244
01:33:24,165 --> 01:33:27,984
is a meeting space with the public. Um, places where

1245
01:33:27,984 --> 01:33:29,824
we can engage with the public where we can run

1246
01:33:29,925 --> 01:33:33,964
events and, uh, and, and, and, you know, really, uh,

1247
01:33:34,085 --> 01:33:37,504
collaborate with the community, identifying what the problems are and

1248
01:33:37,544 --> 01:33:40,624
working on them. Um, in terms of the services that

1249
01:33:40,645 --> 01:33:42,464
are being delivered out of our buildings, we simply don't

1250
01:33:42,504 --> 01:33:45,504
have room for things like school days on officers and

1251
01:33:45,504 --> 01:33:50,384
expanded community response officers. Um, the kind of work that,

1252
01:33:50,384 --> 01:33:53,344
um, is grounded in a facility that is built to

1253
01:33:53,765 --> 01:33:56,864
accommodate those services that are being delivered 54 years have

1254
01:33:57,045 --> 01:34:00,544
passed since the Oshawa station was built and policing is

1255
01:34:00,544 --> 01:34:03,184
not recognisable to any of the members who were there

1256
01:34:03,224 --> 01:34:07,222
doing that at the time when that station opened. Okay.

1257
01:34:07,262 --> 01:34:14,401
Thank you. Okay. That completes the, uh, questions chief. Thank

1258
01:34:14,401 --> 01:34:19,281
you. Uh, we have a report from Finance and Administration

1259
01:34:19,462 --> 01:34:26,377
of Finance. That reads and follows the Finance Administration recommends

1260
01:34:26,417 --> 01:34:29,797
the Regional Council. The report be received for information. Um,

1261
01:34:29,838 --> 01:34:32,697
I do have a couple of questions. And I know,

1262
01:34:32,697 --> 01:34:37,957
uh, other members of committee do. My first question, um,

1263
01:34:38,158 --> 01:34:45,155
to. The commissioner last night on global Durham. Um, I

1264
01:34:45,176 --> 01:34:47,035
guess I'm one of the few that watch it. I

1265
01:34:47,035 --> 01:34:51,715
don't know. Um, there was a story about this document

1266
01:34:52,456 --> 01:34:57,555
and the impact on, on, um, taxes, uh, there was

1267
01:34:57,555 --> 01:35:00,915
also a CBC story over the course of the weekend.

1268
01:35:00,915 --> 01:35:08,195
And it references that the tax increase for 2027 is

1269
01:35:08,235 --> 01:35:12,115
anticipated to be between nine and 10 and a half

1270
01:35:12,136 --> 01:35:16,421
percent. I guess you wouldn't know where they got those

1271
01:35:16,442 --> 01:35:20,341
numbers, but commissioner, could you speak to help potentially they

1272
01:35:20,381 --> 01:35:25,562
could have got those numbers. Uh, so through to the

1273
01:35:25,602 --> 01:35:30,682
chair, um, the forecast based on the forecast before committee

1274
01:35:30,722 --> 01:35:37,002
today, the 2027 forecasted overall property tax increase for police.

1275
01:35:37,023 --> 01:35:40,122
And that's comprehensive of the capital of the operating and

1276
01:35:40,143 --> 01:35:46,042
the base pressures is 4. 6 to percent. We're still,

1277
01:35:46,042 --> 01:35:49,242
uh, in early stages of our regional budget, um, but

1278
01:35:49,503 --> 01:35:55,242
looking at what we're currently facing, the only 1 point

1279
01:35:55,282 --> 01:35:59,402
2 percent related to the 2026 budget, uh, that has

1280
01:35:59,423 --> 01:36:04,122
an impact on 27. There's also the base budget pressures

1281
01:36:04,162 --> 01:36:07,482
as well, which we're still in the process of, of,

1282
01:36:07,482 --> 01:36:12,042
um, of, of modelling. Those typically tend to be in

1283
01:36:12,042 --> 01:36:14,522
the range of three to four and a half percent

1284
01:36:16,303 --> 01:36:20,682
and conservation authorities typically their requests are 0. 02 percent

1285
01:36:20,722 --> 01:36:23,242
on the overall levy as well. So if you add

1286
01:36:23,282 --> 01:36:25,882
those together, that gets you in the ballpark. I will

1287
01:36:25,882 --> 01:36:28,682
say that that doesn't include any service enhancements for the

1288
01:36:29,023 --> 01:36:31,562
region side. And certainly as we do with all of

1289
01:36:31,562 --> 01:36:34,842
our budget processes every year, we look at all opportunities

1290
01:36:35,183 --> 01:36:38,122
to be able to reduce that impact down. It's very

1291
01:36:38,122 --> 01:36:42,042
early days for us, for regional budget for the regional

1292
01:36:42,042 --> 01:36:44,602
overall regional budget forecast at this point in time. Thank

1293
01:36:44,602 --> 01:36:48,882
you. I'll go to the committee member First, just to

1294
01:36:48,882 --> 01:36:50,442
be clear, we don't have a motion at this point.

1295
01:36:50,442 --> 01:36:52,922
We're asking questions before we get to a motion because

1296
01:36:52,922 --> 01:36:55,802
I really think there's a couple of options for a

1297
01:36:55,802 --> 01:36:59,882
motion. The staff recommendations to receive for information. Uh, which

1298
01:36:59,903 --> 01:37:05,402
means it'll go to council with Billy No Direction and

1299
01:37:05,423 --> 01:37:11,642
in essence, no action. So it would, as Good Mayor

1300
01:37:11,642 --> 01:37:14,042
would say, punts it till next year. So I think

1301
01:37:14,082 --> 01:37:16,922
that's the effect of what the motion is. So I

1302
01:37:16,943 --> 01:37:19,942
want to get through the questions first. Chair Henry, you

1303
01:37:19,942 --> 01:37:22,922
have the floor. Well, Chair, I actually have a motion.

1304
01:37:23,536 --> 01:37:26,875
Okay. So, um, I will give you a motion to

1305
01:37:26,976 --> 01:37:34,705
refer this to the 27 budget. Okay. Um. I need

1306
01:37:34,726 --> 01:37:40,701
a second or for the motion. Uh, Councillor Pattern Gial.

1307
01:37:40,701 --> 01:37:42,621
And I'd like to speak to it. Please do. You

1308
01:37:42,621 --> 01:37:48,301
have the four chair. And this, this is important and

1309
01:37:48,322 --> 01:37:51,770
a significant ask. I think by moving it directly to

1310
01:37:51,770 --> 01:37:55,530
the budget, then our staff and the police services can

1311
01:37:55,530 --> 01:37:59,026
work together. Uh, the chief, our CAO, our respective finance

1312
01:37:59,047 --> 01:38:02,706
teams to bring, uh, bring this to the budget with

1313
01:38:02,746 --> 01:38:05,486
the work that needed is needed to be done. Uh,

1314
01:38:05,687 --> 01:38:08,946
it is, it is imperative. And I understand the needs

1315
01:38:08,986 --> 01:38:13,346
to meet the challenges, the services haven't. But to receive

1316
01:38:13,367 --> 01:38:16,706
it for information just slows it down. I think by

1317
01:38:16,746 --> 01:38:19,586
moving it to the budget, it now becomes an action

1318
01:38:19,626 --> 01:38:23,346
item. It would be moved through this committee directly to

1319
01:38:23,386 --> 01:38:28,417
the budget and the work could start literally tomorrow. So

1320
01:38:28,518 --> 01:38:34,329
for clarity, you're not. Suggesting a go - to council?

1321
01:38:34,329 --> 01:38:36,809
No, I'm referring it directly to the budget from this

1322
01:38:36,849 --> 01:38:44,246
committee. All right. Um, the, the, um. Motion is in

1323
01:38:44,267 --> 01:38:47,446
order because it's not an amendment. So it is the

1324
01:38:47,547 --> 01:38:52,354
motion of standing. I'm going to go the committee first.

1325
01:38:52,354 --> 01:38:57,074
And then, um, the, uh, our, our guests. So Councillor

1326
01:38:57,114 --> 01:39:04,259
Yamada, you're, uh, you have the floor. Thank you, Mr.

1327
01:39:04,360 --> 01:39:08,259
Chair. And, uh, good morning. I've got a few questions

1328
01:39:08,520 --> 01:39:16,159
for staff. Um, first off, the annual repayment limit, uh.

1329
01:39:16,815 --> 01:39:23,034
What's the region's current projected, um, annual repayment limit utilization

1330
01:39:23,055 --> 01:39:31,640
before the strategy, police strategies added through your staff. So,

1331
01:39:31,640 --> 01:39:38,040
uh, through the chair, uh, to Councillor Yamada, the annual

1332
01:39:38,141 --> 01:39:43,320
repayment limit. So, uh, what was generally forecasted with including

1333
01:39:43,360 --> 01:39:46,280
the police were in the neighbourhood of between 80 to

1334
01:39:46,301 --> 01:39:49,400
85 percent of our annual repayment limit. What I will

1335
01:39:49,440 --> 01:39:53,480
say though is that there's additional modelling that we're undertaking

1336
01:39:53,520 --> 01:39:57,800
on that annual repayment limit. So typically, um, as Council

1337
01:39:57,840 --> 01:40:01,320
is aware, we're very, we have very little borrowings. So,

1338
01:40:01,320 --> 01:40:04,760
uh, our annual repayment limit. We have been nowhere near

1339
01:40:04,781 --> 01:40:09,080
it. However, with the debt forecast for regional services and

1340
01:40:09,120 --> 01:40:13,080
with police services, we have significant forecasted debt into the

1341
01:40:13,080 --> 01:40:16,120
tune of about 5 billion dollars over the course of

1342
01:40:16,120 --> 01:40:18,680
the next 10 years. When we look at annual repayment

1343
01:40:18,781 --> 01:40:21,800
limit, we also need to include not just the debt

1344
01:40:21,800 --> 01:40:24,280
borrowings that we're going to have, but also our contingent

1345
01:40:24,301 --> 01:40:28,440
liabilities. So that includes things like long - term leases.

1346
01:40:28,440 --> 01:40:31,640
Uh, that also includes other types of loans. For example,

1347
01:40:31,661 --> 01:40:37,060
with our housing properties where we're also, um, potentially, um,

1348
01:40:37,341 --> 01:40:39,480
one of those that may have to step in to

1349
01:40:39,480 --> 01:40:43,880
support those loans. And there's, um, the rationale for why

1350
01:40:43,920 --> 01:40:46,440
that may be part of our contingent liability as well.

1351
01:40:46,440 --> 01:40:48,920
So I guess what I'm saying is we're at 80

1352
01:40:48,920 --> 01:40:52,920
to 85 with just the debt before any contingent liabilities.

1353
01:40:52,920 --> 01:40:55,880
We're doing some additional investigative work with respect to what

1354
01:40:56,061 --> 01:41:00,920
those contingent liabilities may look like. Um, as well, there

1355
01:41:00,920 --> 01:41:07,400
is also potential provincial legislation around water and sewer infrastructure

1356
01:41:07,901 --> 01:41:11,480
that will have potential impacts on our ARL or our

1357
01:41:11,520 --> 01:41:14,840
annual repayment limit calculation. So a bit of a cautionary

1358
01:41:14,861 --> 01:41:18,360
to that range of about 80 to 85 percent Okay.

1359
01:41:18,400 --> 01:41:21,560
Thank you. Supplementary through you, Mr. Chair. So the additional

1360
01:41:21,581 --> 01:41:24,520
work that you're doing with that sort of take into

1361
01:41:24,621 --> 01:41:30,120
account sort of, um, low interest scenarios, moderate and high

1362
01:41:30,221 --> 01:41:33,160
interest scenarios. If the interest rates are starting to fluctuate.

1363
01:41:34,220 --> 01:41:38,439
Yes. So certainly we've modelled different terms. We've modelled different

1364
01:41:39,260 --> 01:41:42,279
interest rates for the dot borrowings as well. And that's

1365
01:41:42,279 --> 01:41:45,939
what gives us that range of 80 to 85. The

1366
01:41:45,939 --> 01:41:49,959
contingent liabilities will put us higher, um, because we're going

1367
01:41:49,959 --> 01:41:55,879
to be adding additional, uh, liabilities to that calculation. Again,

1368
01:41:56,060 --> 01:42:01,639
through you, Mr. Chair supplementary. And would additional, uh, work

1369
01:42:01,820 --> 01:42:07,799
also look at, um, property tax pressures that could result

1370
01:42:07,980 --> 01:42:13,719
from DC reductions, uh, afforded by or policies coming out

1371
01:42:13,759 --> 01:42:18,839
of the province. So through you, that's an excellent question.

1372
01:42:18,839 --> 01:42:23,199
Councillor Yamada. So right now our modelling includes based on

1373
01:42:23,199 --> 01:42:26,439
our forecast. It takes the debt that was in our

1374
01:42:26,620 --> 01:42:34,359
2026, uh, to 2035 capital plan, which contemplated, um, DCs

1375
01:42:34,399 --> 01:42:38,079
at the time based on our current debt forecast, or

1376
01:42:38,079 --> 01:42:43,319
sorry, our current capital DC forecast. If there was some

1377
01:42:43,340 --> 01:42:47,639
change to DC legislation, that required additional debt in order

1378
01:42:47,679 --> 01:42:50,679
to fund those growth - related capital projects that would

1379
01:42:50,679 --> 01:42:56,519
be an additional pressure raising our ARL. Okay. And so

1380
01:42:56,540 --> 01:43:02,039
that would be any DC reductions would be coming out

1381
01:43:02,079 --> 01:43:08,007
of, uh, further debt, not added onto taxpayers. It would

1382
01:43:08,028 --> 01:43:12,327
depend on what it, on what the capital works are.

1383
01:43:12,327 --> 01:43:14,487
Certainly we would look for all non - debt sources,

1384
01:43:14,487 --> 01:43:17,287
but the potential magnitude of those, especially on the water

1385
01:43:17,628 --> 01:43:21,447
and sewer slide may result in additional debt. So with

1386
01:43:21,487 --> 01:43:25,927
the 2026 Capitol budget, we saw increased step forecasts on

1387
01:43:25,927 --> 01:43:28,887
the water and sewer fund because of the previous changes

1388
01:43:28,908 --> 01:43:32,167
to the DC legislation. So we really saw significant increase

1389
01:43:32,188 --> 01:43:35,767
in our debt forecast there. If there any further changes,

1390
01:43:35,767 --> 01:43:38,487
we anticipate it will impact debt as well, just because

1391
01:43:38,748 --> 01:43:43,107
annual increases to pay for that level of infrastructure, uh,

1392
01:43:43,107 --> 01:43:46,887
especially on the water and suicide. You just couldn't raise

1393
01:43:46,927 --> 01:43:49,447
that in annual increases on a yearly basis. You need

1394
01:43:49,447 --> 01:43:51,367
to spread it out and you do that through debt

1395
01:43:51,407 --> 01:43:55,607
issuance. Okay. And, and I guess so we've modelled our,

1396
01:43:55,647 --> 01:44:00,919
our financing, uh, based on high growth scenarios. Are we

1397
01:44:00,919 --> 01:44:04,599
looking at sort of a moderate or lore growth scenario

1398
01:44:04,620 --> 01:44:11,735
as well. So certainly on the region, Mr. Chair. Sorry

1399
01:44:11,756 --> 01:44:15,335
through the chair. So, uh, certainly, um, when we look

1400
01:44:15,436 --> 01:44:19,575
at, uh, for regional infrastructure, when we look at our

1401
01:44:19,756 --> 01:44:24,535
growth forecast, we look at variations in growth levels when

1402
01:44:24,535 --> 01:44:28,615
we, when we bring forward our capital plans. So that

1403
01:44:28,655 --> 01:44:32,935
impacts certainly transit. It also impacts some of like the

1404
01:44:33,036 --> 01:44:35,715
road infrastructure. The water and sewer is a little bit

1405
01:44:35,715 --> 01:44:37,655
more difficult because we're pre - building a lot of

1406
01:44:37,676 --> 01:44:41,655
that infrastructure, uh, but certainly when we're, we're doing our

1407
01:44:41,676 --> 01:44:45,095
growth modelling, we're looking at, uh, both plus and minus

1408
01:44:46,236 --> 01:44:51,507
scenarios for modelling growth. Thank you. Um, further question, uh,

1409
01:44:52,028 --> 01:44:56,807
through you, Mr. Chair. Has the region or staff speak

1410
01:44:57,468 --> 01:45:02,167
to how they've been formally advocating for capital funding funding

1411
01:45:02,268 --> 01:45:07,607
or dedicated operating supports for, uh, DERM region police? I

1412
01:45:07,607 --> 01:45:09,607
don't know. Maybe chief I should have asked this question

1413
01:45:09,628 --> 01:45:12,247
when you were up there. Does the chief come with

1414
01:45:12,247 --> 01:45:15,127
us to AIMO and to these other conferences? Do we

1415
01:45:15,127 --> 01:45:24,087
do delegations with, um, the chief, uh, to advance greater

1416
01:45:24,087 --> 01:45:30,247
funding? Because I think we all understand that there was

1417
01:45:30,268 --> 01:45:33,047
a, uh, a period of time where there was no

1418
01:45:33,308 --> 01:45:36,647
additional hires, so on and so forth. And now we're

1419
01:45:36,687 --> 01:45:40,887
playing catch up. Uh, with all the other pressures that

1420
01:45:40,927 --> 01:45:45,847
we do see, um, I'd like to understand what that's

1421
01:45:45,847 --> 01:45:48,007
looked like and sort of where that's going to be

1422
01:45:48,007 --> 01:45:53,967
going forward. Through you, Mr. Chair. We do undertake some

1423
01:45:54,228 --> 01:45:59,087
advocacy on behalf of accessing costs for policing as we

1424
01:45:59,087 --> 01:46:04,567
do various delegations at EMO FCM and other opportunities. We

1425
01:46:04,567 --> 01:46:07,727
rarely do it in partnership with DRPS, although they are

1426
01:46:07,828 --> 01:46:12,447
fully informed, uh, our government relations team. Pardon? Why is

1427
01:46:12,487 --> 01:46:14,847
that? It's just never evolved that way. And to be

1428
01:46:14,847 --> 01:46:19,247
honest, the various associations associated with police services are very

1429
01:46:19,287 --> 01:46:22,047
strong advocates and often appear at those events and their

1430
01:46:22,047 --> 01:46:24,687
own delegations. So we tend to focus on where we

1431
01:46:24,727 --> 01:46:29,007
need the biggest impact on other regional programs. To date,

1432
01:46:29,007 --> 01:46:31,807
that's tense to be on infrastructure to facilitate the provision

1433
01:46:31,847 --> 01:46:36,287
of housing and dollars to, uh, improve our social housing

1434
01:46:36,327 --> 01:46:38,847
and supportive hosting supply, some of which I do have

1435
01:46:38,887 --> 01:46:42,207
to highlight is beyond 60 years old. Are we going

1436
01:46:42,207 --> 01:46:48,287
to be, um, advocating for the Oshawa police campus and

1437
01:46:48,308 --> 01:46:52,127
funding supports, uh, to the Prevential or federal governance and

1438
01:46:52,127 --> 01:46:54,927
what would that look like? At this point, that is

1439
01:46:54,927 --> 01:46:56,847
not on our list. I believe that project has to

1440
01:46:56,847 --> 01:47:00,127
come forward to Council. And until we have Council approval,

1441
01:47:00,127 --> 01:47:02,527
it would not fall to staff to advocate for any

1442
01:47:02,567 --> 01:47:11,775
additional funding. All right.

1443
01:47:13,188 --> 01:47:16,767
Thank you very much. Thank you. Oh, one further question,

1444
01:47:16,767 --> 01:47:22,904
Mr. Chair. Uh, just. I'm trying to understand too. The

1445
01:47:23,825 --> 01:47:30,444
front ending of the taxes, um, or the tax increases,

1446
01:47:30,444 --> 01:47:38,444
I think it's, uh, 57, uh, is front ended in

1447
01:47:38,444 --> 01:47:40,684
the first four years. I'm trying to understand why that

1448
01:47:40,684 --> 01:47:46,452
is. That's a hard question for our staff to answer

1449
01:47:46,713 --> 01:47:49,492
chief. Do you want to try to come back and

1450
01:47:49,532 --> 01:47:56,945
answer that one? I think you are articulated. The need

1451
01:47:57,046 --> 01:48:01,585
is now. Yeah. So it's a lot of money in

1452
01:48:01,585 --> 01:48:03,965
the first couple of years. I will, uh, admit, but

1453
01:48:03,965 --> 01:48:07,345
we're talking about three different needs in the Oshawa campus.

1454
01:48:08,351 --> 01:48:10,570
All critical needs. And so this is to how to

1455
01:48:10,591 --> 01:48:14,090
get, this is about getting that project started. The reality

1456
01:48:14,090 --> 01:48:16,570
is that these things should have been, uh, spread out

1457
01:48:16,751 --> 01:48:20,010
over the last 10 years. And they haven't. And it

1458
01:48:20,010 --> 01:48:23,690
hasn't been addressed. And so, um, the, the upfront costs

1459
01:48:23,951 --> 01:48:27,610
are, are what they are. And, um, this is because

1460
01:48:27,871 --> 01:48:33,610
we, uh, with the right location through our, uh, RFI,

1461
01:48:33,610 --> 01:48:35,290
we learned a lot of things about what is available

1462
01:48:35,631 --> 01:48:37,370
in this region here and how we can move this

1463
01:48:37,471 --> 01:48:40,090
forward. And all of these things are critical needs. I

1464
01:48:41,791 --> 01:48:44,410
don't know how much more plane to say that. Okay.

1465
01:48:44,450 --> 01:48:48,307
Thank you, chief. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, I'm staying

1466
01:48:48,347 --> 01:48:51,387
with the committee before I go to our guests. So

1467
01:48:51,387 --> 01:48:54,067
Councillor Crawford, do you have the floor? Thank you. Um,

1468
01:48:54,488 --> 01:48:57,987
I'm not sure who this goes to. It's on attachment

1469
01:48:58,248 --> 01:49:01,667
three. I think it's from the police, but I'm not

1470
01:49:01,688 --> 01:49:06,547
like a hundred percent sure I see that there's appending,

1471
01:49:06,547 --> 01:49:13,271
uh, request. In 2026. Yeah. Commissioner can answer. Okay. Can

1472
01:49:13,292 --> 01:49:16,833
you give me some background on that. Uh, so through

1473
01:49:16,833 --> 01:49:21,793
the chair, this is referring to the for the balance

1474
01:49:22,134 --> 01:49:25,633
maybe that are listening. This refers to the Oshawa campus

1475
01:49:25,673 --> 01:49:29,313
on the Capitol plan upon requests for 93. 5 million

1476
01:49:29,494 --> 01:49:33,153
dollars So this is for the Oshawa campus. This is

1477
01:49:33,153 --> 01:49:36,553
the money to start this project. It includes land. It

1478
01:49:36,553 --> 01:49:40,673
also includes design, uh, work as well. My, uh, my

1479
01:49:40,673 --> 01:49:45,873
understanding is that the, um, the police board will be,

1480
01:49:45,873 --> 01:49:49,233
um, considering a report at there may meeting, um, with

1481
01:49:49,334 --> 01:49:53,633
a subsequent request in through Council at June relating to

1482
01:49:53,673 --> 01:49:57,153
this project. But it is to start that initial investment

1483
01:49:57,174 --> 01:50:05,371
for the Oshawa campus. Okay. Um. All right. I asked

1484
01:50:05,952 --> 01:50:09,211
very, very same question. Okay. Thank you. Thanks. Okay. Let's

1485
01:50:09,211 --> 01:50:16,541
find thank you. Sure. Uh, Mayor Collier. On the report.

1486
01:50:18,241 --> 01:50:20,700
Uh, I'll speak to both the motion and a report.

1487
01:50:21,124 --> 01:50:23,983
Sorry. My notes are on emotion and a report. Thank

1488
01:50:24,023 --> 01:50:26,872
you, Chair. Uh, and I will be brief. I think

1489
01:50:26,872 --> 01:50:30,792
the chief Mr. Tumlins have very thoroughed their delegations. To

1490
01:50:30,792 --> 01:50:34,032
the motion on the floor, um, and Councillor Crawford started

1491
01:50:34,072 --> 01:50:37,392
to ask about this DRPS requires 93 million dollars in

1492
01:50:37,432 --> 01:50:41,392
2026 for the Oshawa campus. Referring this matter to the

1493
01:50:41,392 --> 01:50:44,752
2027 budgets. There's no purpose other than to continue what

1494
01:50:44,752 --> 01:50:46,592
every council has done thus far, which is to ignore

1495
01:50:46,632 --> 01:50:49,712
the urgency of the matters today. And ensure that these

1496
01:50:49,752 --> 01:50:52,592
matters continue to decline and become even more expensive to

1497
01:50:52,592 --> 01:50:55,382
the taxpayer going forward. At the same time, this puts

1498
01:50:55,563 --> 01:50:57,782
DRPS in the region at risk by not allowing the

1499
01:50:57,883 --> 01:51:02,528
board to provide adequate policing. For example, potential ministry of

1500
01:51:02,549 --> 01:51:07,389
labour investigations that you heard today and potential arbitration. These

1501
01:51:07,730 --> 01:51:11,913
capital expenditures are not new. Uh, these capital numbers have

1502
01:51:11,953 --> 01:51:14,073
appeared in every capital budget going back to at least

1503
01:51:14,254 --> 01:51:16,953
2010 when I was versempointed to the Finance Committee in

1504
01:51:16,974 --> 01:51:20,553
this Council. I remember a police station in North Oshawa

1505
01:51:20,574 --> 01:51:24,073
for 40 million dollars back in 2010 was on the

1506
01:51:24,113 --> 01:51:25,913
budget. It might still be in the Capitol budget for

1507
01:51:25,934 --> 01:51:27,993
all I know, but just kept pushing out and pushing

1508
01:51:28,014 --> 01:51:31,749
out. It's now 125 million dollars. If that was built

1509
01:51:31,770 --> 01:51:37,813
today. The amounts to build these buildings has increased significantly

1510
01:51:37,914 --> 01:51:40,933
due to 15 years of regional Council pushing projects out

1511
01:51:41,514 --> 01:51:43,413
year after year. And it could be longer. I only

1512
01:51:43,413 --> 01:51:47,491
go back to 2010 here. What's changed is that in

1513
01:51:47,491 --> 01:51:53,091
December, 2024, via report 2024 COW - 53, this council

1514
01:51:53,192 --> 01:51:55,971
requested that DRPS develop a multi - year service and

1515
01:51:56,011 --> 01:52:00,291
financing study for policing. I'll quote, stop be directed to

1516
01:52:00,291 --> 01:52:02,931
undertake a minimum 10 - year operating capital dermal region

1517
01:52:02,971 --> 01:52:06,291
police service and finances strategy and partnership with the Durham

1518
01:52:06,291 --> 01:52:09,171
Regional Police Service Board. And the Durham Regional Police Service

1519
01:52:09,171 --> 01:52:11,891
staff in order to provide recommendations on a multi -

1520
01:52:11,891 --> 01:52:15,411
year funding strategy to address operating capital impacts of the

1521
01:52:15,512 --> 01:52:18,851
new community safety and policing Act 2019. And the state

1522
01:52:18,891 --> 01:52:21,731
of good repair of capital facilities recognised in the need

1523
01:52:21,771 --> 01:52:25,571
for stability and predictability to property taxpayers and that the

1524
01:52:25,672 --> 01:52:27,651
DERM regional police service board through the chief of police

1525
01:52:27,912 --> 01:52:30,531
be requested to direct Durham Regional Police Service staff to

1526
01:52:30,552 --> 01:52:34,815
provide all necessary input and information. We've done that. That

1527
01:52:34,836 --> 01:52:37,775
report is before you today as requested by this Council.

1528
01:52:38,896 --> 01:52:41,595
I wish the report was before Finance a year ago.

1529
01:52:42,647 --> 01:52:45,002
When it was ready. But it is what it is

1530
01:52:45,263 --> 01:52:47,893
at this point. I can't talk to the timing. Most

1531
01:52:47,994 --> 01:52:51,653
other departments at this region have originally approved 10 -

1532
01:52:51,653 --> 01:52:54,533
year capital budget. And DRPS should be given the same

1533
01:52:54,634 --> 01:52:57,813
consideration as especially as this is the direction of this

1534
01:52:57,914 --> 01:53:02,743
Council. Again, this is before you at your request and

1535
01:53:02,743 --> 01:53:04,663
DRPS needs to be able to plan long - term

1536
01:53:04,684 --> 01:53:08,023
with consistent, reliable funding, and not have to keep coming

1537
01:53:08,044 --> 01:53:10,903
to this committee with one - off requests as we've

1538
01:53:10,943 --> 01:53:14,103
had to do for the last several years. As to

1539
01:53:15,324 --> 01:53:18,423
the fact there is an election this year. Politics shouldn't

1540
01:53:18,604 --> 01:53:21,423
enter into your decision today. This decision is going to

1541
01:53:21,484 --> 01:53:25,684
get any easier or any cheaper going forward. The need

1542
01:53:25,705 --> 01:53:28,164
for approval of the Scapil's strategy is now it is

1543
01:53:28,204 --> 01:53:32,484
urgent receiving for information as suggested is a cop out.

1544
01:53:32,484 --> 01:53:35,764
Excuse upon, please. But this is exactly what's been happening

1545
01:53:36,025 --> 01:53:39,924
for 15 years and there will be repercussions. But supporting

1546
01:53:39,945 --> 01:53:44,079
this motion to refer is no different. The responsible decision

1547
01:53:44,100 --> 01:53:46,719
today is to defeat the motion on the floor and

1548
01:53:46,740 --> 01:53:49,119
approve the plan to allow us to move forward for

1549
01:53:49,119 --> 01:53:51,603
the benefit of the region. I ask that a member

1550
01:53:51,603 --> 01:53:54,163
of committee please move an amendment once this is defeated

1551
01:53:54,264 --> 01:53:56,723
to approve and that you support. Thank you for your

1552
01:53:56,763 --> 01:54:05,357
consideration. Thank you, Mayor. Councillor Nicholson. Councillor Nicholson, can you

1553
01:54:05,397 --> 01:54:10,915
put a request in again? Do you hear me now?

1554
01:54:10,936 --> 01:54:15,041
Yeah. You have the floor, Brian. Yeah. Thank you. I

1555
01:54:15,222 --> 01:54:18,081
actually came to the meeting just to watch and to

1556
01:54:18,081 --> 01:54:21,841
learn and hear the comments, uh, but the motion by,

1557
01:54:21,841 --> 01:54:25,801
uh, Cher Henry has caused me great concern. Uh, at

1558
01:54:25,801 --> 01:54:29,321
this point in time, if the matter goes to Council,

1559
01:54:29,321 --> 01:54:31,961
all 28, uh, members of the Council who are elected

1560
01:54:31,982 --> 01:54:34,921
in the chair will have an opportunity to discuss it

1561
01:54:34,921 --> 01:54:38,929
and offer their viewpoint. The motion to send this to

1562
01:54:38,969 --> 01:54:43,445
the budget gags 20 members of this council. It takes

1563
01:54:43,485 --> 01:54:49,765
away our ability to discuss and vote on this proposed

1564
01:54:50,346 --> 01:54:56,019
submission from the DRPS. I don't understand why a chair

1565
01:54:57,560 --> 01:55:02,478
of Durham Region would move a motion. To basically limit

1566
01:55:03,299 --> 01:55:06,718
the decision on this report is simply eight members of

1567
01:55:06,739 --> 01:55:09,919
the Council. Um, I think this is too important an

1568
01:55:09,919 --> 01:55:14,631
issue. To be foisted off to, uh, another budget and

1569
01:55:14,631 --> 01:55:18,951
another council without allowing this council the opportunity to discuss

1570
01:55:19,612 --> 01:55:23,991
and offer its comments on the report. Um, as mayor

1571
01:55:24,031 --> 01:55:27,271
Connor made very clear, we asked as a council for

1572
01:55:27,311 --> 01:55:32,256
this report. The DERM regional police service has provided the

1573
01:55:32,437 --> 01:55:35,673
answers that we asked for. But then not to allow

1574
01:55:35,774 --> 01:55:39,273
members of council the opportunity to discuss what they have

1575
01:55:39,273 --> 01:55:42,153
provided to us, I believe is not a very Democratic

1576
01:55:42,494 --> 01:55:46,993
approach. Um, we're very vocal recently. Are going to against

1577
01:55:47,334 --> 01:55:50,766
attacks on Democracy from the provincial level. Regarding the elections

1578
01:55:50,867 --> 01:55:53,944
of chairs. Uh, but if we're going to ignore Democracy

1579
01:55:53,984 --> 01:55:55,864
and we're going to simply say eight people will have

1580
01:55:55,864 --> 01:55:58,504
the right to vote on this 20 others will not

1581
01:55:58,544 --> 01:56:01,944
have the right to speak on this. Um, that really

1582
01:56:02,045 --> 01:56:04,766
sends a mixed message to everybody. Um, what I've heard

1583
01:56:04,806 --> 01:56:08,206
today and just to speak very briefly to the report,

1584
01:56:08,206 --> 01:56:13,006
um, uh, I echo Councillor or mayor Collier said that,

1585
01:56:13,006 --> 01:56:14,846
you know, we, we should be dealing with the need

1586
01:56:16,067 --> 01:56:19,966
and adopting the plan. But what we're missing here is,

1587
01:56:19,966 --> 01:56:24,356
uh, the financing. You know, what, what is clear to

1588
01:56:24,356 --> 01:56:27,452
me. From, uh, all the debates we've had on this

1589
01:56:28,193 --> 01:56:30,572
is that they put the police funding model in the

1590
01:56:30,753 --> 01:56:35,551
province, Ontario is broken. It was established 50, 60 years

1591
01:56:35,551 --> 01:56:39,305
ago when most policing was local. But so much of

1592
01:56:39,326 --> 01:56:43,289
the costs of our police department. Are driven by provincial

1593
01:56:43,329 --> 01:56:52,249
decisions. Federal Decisions, societal issues, academic issues is being forced

1594
01:56:52,289 --> 01:56:55,278
to pay for 100 percent. Of the police and costs.

1595
01:56:55,750 --> 01:56:58,984
And that's simply not tenable. What we need is to

1596
01:56:58,984 --> 01:57:02,264
start the process of discussion with the province and the

1597
01:57:02,365 --> 01:57:04,824
federal government to come up with a new funding model

1598
01:57:04,864 --> 01:57:07,704
that doesn't dumply the entire cost of policing on the

1599
01:57:07,725 --> 01:57:12,484
regional property taxpayer. We can't even start that process if

1600
01:57:12,524 --> 01:57:16,073
the process doesn't get to Council. If we simply refer

1601
01:57:16,094 --> 01:57:19,433
to a budget, uh, we continue to apportion the seats

1602
01:57:19,433 --> 01:57:22,553
on this lifeboat rather than trying to find a way

1603
01:57:22,593 --> 01:57:25,712
to avoid the iceberg. Uh, we need better than this.

1604
01:57:25,712 --> 01:57:28,032
We need a chance to have a healthy debate on

1605
01:57:28,072 --> 01:57:30,632
the future of this project on where we're going to

1606
01:57:30,632 --> 01:57:33,792
move forward on funding strategies to give our steps some

1607
01:57:33,792 --> 01:57:36,912
direction. And we can't do that if this motion carries

1608
01:57:37,493 --> 01:57:40,032
to simply fois it off to the next Council and

1609
01:57:40,072 --> 01:57:44,112
abandon our elected duties. So I asked this committee, please

1610
01:57:44,133 --> 01:57:50,014
defeat, uh, Chair Henry's motion. Send it to Council. We

1611
01:57:50,014 --> 01:57:52,774
can have a Folsom and healthy debate there. And we

1612
01:57:52,774 --> 01:57:55,094
can give directions to our staff to move forward. Thank

1613
01:57:55,094 --> 01:57:59,884
you. Thank you, Councillor. Uh, let the records say till

1614
01:57:59,924 --> 01:58:02,760
11, 10 that I agree with you. Uh, not that

1615
01:58:02,760 --> 01:58:05,800
it's undemocratic, but I think that, uh, Council should have

1616
01:58:05,821 --> 01:58:10,520
a position on this. Um, I have been trying to

1617
01:58:11,661 --> 01:58:14,980
get a path forward for all of us. And, uh,

1618
01:58:15,341 --> 01:58:18,760
I think there is a path forward in regards to,

1619
01:58:18,760 --> 01:58:23,640
uh, approving a document in principle allowing, uh, the planning

1620
01:58:23,680 --> 01:58:29,240
to continue, uh, allowing for the, uh, Oshawa thing to

1621
01:58:29,240 --> 01:58:33,400
come, um, as a one - off. And to begin

1622
01:58:33,400 --> 01:58:38,280
to address the compelling arguments of the President as well

1623
01:58:38,280 --> 01:58:41,320
as the chief today. So, uh, I will not be

1624
01:58:41,421 --> 01:58:47,640
supporting the referral to budget. Um, I will support something

1625
01:58:47,661 --> 01:58:51,320
going to Council and I will be, um, trying to

1626
01:58:51,821 --> 01:58:54,280
get a middle ground. I don't think it's a cop

1627
01:58:54,320 --> 01:59:04,123
out. Intended that my friend Mayor Colliers mentioned approving something

1628
01:59:04,384 --> 01:59:07,083
in principle is a significant undertaking when you're talking about

1629
01:59:08,144 --> 01:59:11,483
a billion to two billion dollars and worrying about the

1630
01:59:11,523 --> 01:59:16,683
funding and funding commitment later on, I think, is, is

1631
01:59:16,704 --> 01:59:23,083
also, um, important because after November 15th, we're in a

1632
01:59:23,083 --> 01:59:27,597
new whole new world. With the Regional Chair who potentially

1633
01:59:27,778 --> 01:59:31,997
has, he or she has the potential to, uh, propose

1634
01:59:32,037 --> 01:59:35,917
a budget, which may or may or may not include,

1635
01:59:35,917 --> 01:59:38,457
uh, funding for this. So that's why I think, uh,

1636
01:59:39,218 --> 01:59:43,357
proving it in principle so that the Council has taken

1637
01:59:43,538 --> 01:59:47,917
a position. And then worrying about funding, uh, in the

1638
01:59:48,018 --> 01:59:51,417
mechanism that will be in under the new regime, uh,

1639
01:59:51,698 --> 01:59:57,197
in, in post November 15th and into 2027. I see

1640
01:59:57,298 --> 02:00:01,037
Councillor Crawford, you are back on my list as is

1641
02:00:01,037 --> 02:00:03,917
Councillor Pentago. So I'll go back to you. Councillor Crawford,

1642
02:00:03,917 --> 02:00:06,557
you floor. Thank you. Um, I'm a little confused by

1643
02:00:06,578 --> 02:00:10,717
the motion. I understand the motion, but, uh, wasn't it

1644
02:00:10,717 --> 02:00:12,797
regional staff that brought this report to us on Friday.

1645
02:00:14,715 --> 02:00:19,667
Am I right? Yes. Well, the report is actually before

1646
02:00:19,848 --> 02:00:23,427
you today. The report was published on Friday with the

1647
02:00:23,467 --> 02:00:27,107
agenda for the Finance and Admin Committee, which is where

1648
02:00:27,107 --> 02:00:30,304
we are today. But we had a special meeting Friday

1649
02:00:30,405 --> 02:00:34,464
talking about this. Let's be clear. The report, the meeting

1650
02:00:34,504 --> 02:00:38,066
on Friday. Was the police board and the chiefs meeting.

1651
02:00:38,066 --> 02:00:43,026
This is the response from our Administration to this committee.

1652
02:00:43,026 --> 02:00:44,606
Okay. Cause it seemed like the chief was a bit

1653
02:00:44,606 --> 02:00:47,006
surprised by the Friday meeting. I could be wrong. But

1654
02:00:47,207 --> 02:00:50,226
am I maybe I'm not. Um, so I don't understand

1655
02:00:50,887 --> 02:00:54,146
if, if we brought it on Friday, now we're bumping

1656
02:00:54,167 --> 02:00:59,166
it to 2027. Why did we even through you, Mr.

1657
02:00:59,166 --> 02:01:02,606
Chair? The rapport on Friday was received for information. And

1658
02:01:02,606 --> 02:01:04,386
in the body of the Report, it did talk about

1659
02:01:06,007 --> 02:01:09,826
it being considered as part of the 2027 budget process

1660
02:01:10,407 --> 02:01:15,266
as a result of various changes provincially with development charges,

1661
02:01:15,266 --> 02:01:17,346
the impact of which we're not currently aware, but we

1662
02:01:17,346 --> 02:01:19,426
know it will be material. The fact that we will

1663
02:01:19,447 --> 02:01:23,666
be going to an appointed chair with strong share powers.

1664
02:01:23,666 --> 02:01:27,346
And therefore, a lead role in the budget process and

1665
02:01:27,346 --> 02:01:30,906
also given the magnitude of the 10 year requirements. We

1666
02:01:30,906 --> 02:01:32,866
thought it very important that it go to the new

1667
02:01:32,887 --> 02:01:36,466
council once we have clear direction from the appointed chair.

1668
02:01:38,430 --> 02:01:42,089
Okay. Um, so I do want to thank the chief

1669
02:01:42,510 --> 02:01:44,249
for speaking with me last night. We had a very

1670
02:01:44,249 --> 02:01:52,329
good conversation. And, uh, I do understand that, um, anything.

1671
02:01:52,329 --> 02:01:55,849
Because in 36 hours, we're going to be shutting down

1672
02:01:56,190 --> 02:01:58,009
regional council and we won't be bringing it back up

1673
02:01:58,049 --> 02:02:01,289
again until November. So trying to get anything done is

1674
02:02:01,470 --> 02:02:04,489
going to be June meeting. Huh? We have a June

1675
02:02:04,529 --> 02:02:06,329
meeting. Oh, no, I know that. But I mean, it's

1676
02:02:06,329 --> 02:02:09,129
still what we're, just give me the, the leeway here.

1677
02:02:09,129 --> 02:02:14,462
I understand. I understand the timelines. It makes it difficult

1678
02:02:15,283 --> 02:02:17,802
if for one - offs, as you were suggesting, uh,

1679
02:02:18,083 --> 02:02:22,837
when your timelines are tight. And nothing immunicipal government moves

1680
02:02:22,938 --> 02:02:27,477
quickly. So I would like to know, uh, if the

1681
02:02:27,658 --> 02:02:33,397
request for 2026 was approved today, what does that do

1682
02:02:33,437 --> 02:02:37,735
to the tax base. Can we mention there? Can you

1683
02:02:37,735 --> 02:02:41,075
speak to the funding mechanism for the one - off

1684
02:02:41,116 --> 02:02:48,213
ask that we'll be getting in June. Council. Nicole. Oh,

1685
02:02:48,253 --> 02:02:54,528
we can't commit the new council. Sure, what? Sorry.

1686
02:02:57,612 --> 02:02:59,831
Sorry. I just checked with our clerk. We could not

1687
02:03:00,332 --> 02:03:04,231
outright approve this as it would give in the magnitude.

1688
02:03:04,231 --> 02:03:08,050
We could not commit a new council to that. Did

1689
02:03:08,050 --> 02:03:09,890
I reflect? Well, I'm just trying to understand what the,

1690
02:03:09,890 --> 02:03:15,320
with the impact is. That's all. It's looking confused. Yeah.

1691
02:03:15,958 --> 02:03:19,137
No, I'm talking like this pending request right here. One

1692
02:03:19,137 --> 02:03:23,480
meeting. Commissioner, do you want to speak to the one

1693
02:03:23,501 --> 02:03:27,640
- off request that's apparently coming in June and the

1694
02:03:27,640 --> 02:03:34,932
funding. Go ahead. Okay. Uh, so through, through the chair.

1695
02:03:35,033 --> 02:03:40,132
So, um, certainly pre - budget approval requests are not,

1696
02:03:40,132 --> 02:03:43,212
this Council can't approve a pre - budget approval. An

1697
02:03:43,212 --> 02:03:48,612
unbudgeted capital request. Those can be approved by this Council.

1698
02:03:48,612 --> 02:03:51,012
If it's an in - year request for this year,

1699
02:03:51,012 --> 02:03:53,972
um, is my understanding. Right. And then, and this chart.

1700
02:03:54,428 --> 02:03:58,407
Indicates that the one off is a 2026 expense, which

1701
02:03:58,428 --> 02:04:03,035
this council has the ability to prove. So in terms

1702
02:04:03,075 --> 02:04:05,435
of, can I, sorry, through the chair. So in terms

1703
02:04:05,435 --> 02:04:11,435
of the incremental impact to the 2027 levy resulting from

1704
02:04:11,856 --> 02:04:17,515
that one capital item, the estimated impact of that is

1705
02:04:17,536 --> 02:04:23,784
about 3. 7 million dollars. And percentage. Can you, can

1706
02:04:23,784 --> 02:04:29,324
you, sorry, I work. That's the point four percent is

1707
02:04:29,324 --> 02:04:34,977
that that's what the nine million bucks. Is wonderful. And

1708
02:04:34,998 --> 02:04:37,257
that's land. I don't know what it is. Cause I

1709
02:04:37,257 --> 02:04:39,697
haven't, it's coming in June, obviously. So I'm assuming that's

1710
02:04:39,878 --> 02:04:44,017
land. If my understanding is, and police are still, again,

1711
02:04:44,998 --> 02:04:47,297
they're finalising their report. So they'll be final numbers that

1712
02:04:47,337 --> 02:04:48,897
will come from that. But based on the numbers we

1713
02:04:48,937 --> 02:04:52,457
have available now, it would include land and design. A

1714
02:04:52,457 --> 02:04:54,737
portion of design. So effectively, if we bump this entire

1715
02:04:54,838 --> 02:05:00,161
budget to 2027, 2026 is lost. Is that correct? Is

1716
02:05:00,201 --> 02:05:05,041
that what I'm hearing? So I ask for the one

1717
02:05:05,081 --> 02:05:08,921
- off is for this Fiscal year. So 2026. By

1718
02:05:08,921 --> 02:05:13,256
bumping it to 2027, 2026 is still alive. As of

1719
02:05:13,256 --> 02:05:18,604
June. One ask would still be available for approvals in

1720
02:05:18,604 --> 02:05:22,204
the 2026 budget. What the CEO said is we can't

1721
02:05:22,385 --> 02:05:27,858
commit. Expenditures for the next council. Understood. Okay. Thank you.

1722
02:05:27,858 --> 02:05:33,646
I just want to clarification on that. Thank you. Councillor

1723
02:05:33,686 --> 02:05:36,446
Pettengeal, you have the floor again. Thank you very much.

1724
02:05:36,446 --> 02:05:40,366
And through you. I mean, I heard what Councillor Nicholson

1725
02:05:40,707 --> 02:05:44,126
said. I have no issue with this going to all

1726
02:05:44,166 --> 02:05:48,206
of Council. However, how we will result from that will

1727
02:05:48,206 --> 02:05:53,726
still very likely be, um, either to accept it in,

1728
02:05:53,747 --> 02:05:56,606
in principle or to send it to the budget. Same

1729
02:05:56,606 --> 02:05:58,686
end. So if everyone wants to weigh in on that

1730
02:05:58,726 --> 02:06:04,286
fight or approve the plan. Yes. Although, you know, I

1731
02:06:04,286 --> 02:06:07,326
did look up since the chief spoke about it peal

1732
02:06:07,347 --> 02:06:09,901
region did do it through their budget. Um, I believe

1733
02:06:09,922 --> 02:06:13,821
that when a group is asked to create a strategy

1734
02:06:14,322 --> 02:06:16,741
and then come back comes back with a report, it

1735
02:06:16,741 --> 02:06:18,541
still then goes through the budget process. I think that's

1736
02:06:18,882 --> 02:06:22,301
a proper procedure. Um, we need to see what that

1737
02:06:22,341 --> 02:06:27,463
looks like over time. Um, so I don't know how

1738
02:06:27,484 --> 02:06:32,249
that really changes. This motion that's on the floor right

1739
02:06:32,289 --> 02:06:37,167
now, but. It will likely end the same at Council

1740
02:06:37,348 --> 02:06:39,327
that they would approve to send it to budget. I

1741
02:06:39,327 --> 02:06:42,687
think that's the most likely. And this way, this actions

1742
02:06:42,687 --> 02:06:44,647
it in a way it does it prove it. It

1743
02:06:44,647 --> 02:06:47,007
says, thank you very much for that report. Now let's

1744
02:06:47,028 --> 02:06:50,738
put it through the budget process. And, and see where

1745
02:06:50,738 --> 02:06:54,178
the details led and the details are yet unknown to

1746
02:06:54,178 --> 02:06:58,511
approve this. Right now with the amount of unknowns would

1747
02:06:58,551 --> 02:07:04,900
not be responsible in my position. Okay. I think that

1748
02:07:04,921 --> 02:07:07,860
concludes the list. Oh, Councillor Yamada, you want the floor

1749
02:07:07,900 --> 02:07:15,662
again. Thank you. Um, question of clarity. So would we

1750
02:07:15,702 --> 02:07:22,702
then be able to move, I guess, um, a refined,

1751
02:07:22,702 --> 02:07:29,342
um, motion or referral where we, um, that we approve

1752
02:07:29,443 --> 02:07:35,322
the 2026 ask and refer, um, the remainder 2027, the

1753
02:07:35,322 --> 02:07:41,165
2036. To the budget. The 2026 ask is not in

1754
02:07:41,165 --> 02:07:47,565
front of us. And we'll be at in June. That's,

1755
02:07:47,565 --> 02:07:49,885
okay. Thank you. Thank you. That's all folks. I do

1756
02:07:49,925 --> 02:07:54,845
have a properly moved motion and seconded to refer this

1757
02:07:54,885 --> 02:08:01,998
to the 2027 budget. I have. Seven members. So a

1758
02:08:01,998 --> 02:08:05,758
recorded vote has been requested by chair Henry. Councillor Wu

1759
02:08:05,939 --> 02:08:10,078
and Councillor Leahy are online. So Madam Clerk, can we

1760
02:08:10,078 --> 02:08:13,198
call the role? This is to refer to the 2027

1761
02:08:13,238 --> 02:08:13,358
budget.

1762
02:08:26,337 --> 02:08:30,919
And. I believe Councillor McDougall. Who hasn't voted. Uh, Councillor

1763
02:08:30,959 --> 02:08:33,559
McDougal's at a medical appointment.

1764
02:08:46,041 --> 02:08:54,053
Okay. The motion has carried then. Um. So I'm not

1765
02:08:54,093 --> 02:08:57,893
quite sure. The action now is that it's been referred

1766
02:08:57,893 --> 02:09:03,733
to the 2027 budget. The one offs would continue and

1767
02:09:03,773 --> 02:09:08,373
be welcomed for consideration. Uh, and I'm sure the chair

1768
02:09:08,474 --> 02:09:10,693
of the police board will have some discussions with the

1769
02:09:10,733 --> 02:09:15,973
clerk about other options. So, um, we have one more

1770
02:09:16,154 --> 02:09:21,520
item for a business today. And that is the confidential

1771
02:09:21,541 --> 02:09:27,240
report. There is a recommendation to authorize the report. Is

1772
02:09:27,240 --> 02:09:31,313
there need to go in camera. Move by chair Henry?

1773
02:09:31,313 --> 02:09:36,199
Seconded by Councillor Crawford. To approve the actions in camera.

1774
02:09:37,379 --> 02:09:40,936
All those in favor. Oppose that Adams carried any business.

1775
02:09:45,623 --> 02:09:48,428
A motion to adjourn would be in order. Move by

1776
02:09:48,468 --> 02:09:54,327
chair Henry second by Councillor Crawford. That we adjourn all

1777
02:09:54,327 --> 02:09:56,983
those in favor. That's approved. Thank you.