[This transcript was generated automatically from audio using AI and hasn't been reviewed by a person -- it can contain mistakes, including plausible-sounding sentences that were never actually said. Treat it as a starting point, not a verbatim record.]

[0:15] Council meeting for August the 17th, 2026. Stand for the invocation if you will and remain for the Pledge of Allegiance.
[0:22] Lord, we ask you to look at the homeless, get them back in the society as quickly as possible. Also, Lord, we ask you to look at the armed forces from the standpoint. Those that are overseas, especially those that are here in our particular area watching over and protected them. Also, we ask you as our EMTs,
[0:41] Please fire our police from the standpoint, first responders on 24-7, watch over and protect
[0:46] them as well.
[0:47] What we do tonight, we do for the good of the entire city and not for anyone's particular
[0:53] interest or anyone's particular project.
[0:56] And we do all of this in your name.
[0:58] Amen.
[0:59] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which
[1:05] to stand one nation under God in this well with liberty and justice for all.
[1:17] Oh good evening everyone and welcome.
[1:21] I have Belinda Nishki with me this evening who have taken the minutes and I have Frank
[1:25] Whitman from Whitman Associates because I'm attorney and welcome to you as well and
[1:32] Belinda if you'll call the role please.
[1:34] Mr. Barley.
[1:35] Here.
[1:36] Mr. Messmer.
[1:36] Here.
[1:37] Mr. Schreiber.
[1:39] Here.
[1:39] Mr. Spears, here, Dr. Spelley, here, Mr. Thielin.
[1:44] We do have a call this evening, I'd like to welcome the council members as well.
[1:48] Also, every agenda has a slot on there for
[1:52] what are your citizens wishing to be heard, but it's not on the agenda tonight.
[1:57] So if anybody would like to come for and present a presentation, this would be the time to do it.
[2:04] And if not, then of course we'll get you in.
[2:07] I'm going to introduce yourself, if you will, and present your issue to thank you.
[2:23] I'd like to know if the city's even considered discussing the issue with e-scrooters and e-bikes
[2:29] on the city sidewalks.
[2:32] Dennis, we have.
[2:33] We are basically putting up, we're trying to put out an ordinance on that as well.
[2:39] We did get some samples from Fort Mitchell and some other communities as well.
[2:42] But yes, we are working on that and so we've already got an ordinance and we've already got rules and regulations and you guys aren't
[2:49] Enforce my apologies. Is he supposed to introduce himself and say his address?
[2:55] Yeah.
[2:55] Okay.
[2:55] It never makes you happy.
[2:57] Yeah.
[2:57] Good because it's perfect.
[2:59] Okay. My name's Dennis Drew.
[3:00] I'm on Dudley Road to one down the hill.
[3:05] And nice couple of weeks I've noticed that the e-bikes and the scooters are basically out of control.
[3:11] The other day I was coming on Turkey foot road, turning right onto Dudley.
[3:16] I started the inch forward and I had to stop immediately because two guys on scooters
[3:20] went right in front of me, okay, and they were riding their scooters.
[3:24] That's not obeying the law.
[3:26] The law says they're supposed to walk their scooters across the street.
[3:30] But they didn't.
[3:31] And they were also going across, you know, against the crosswalk and I almost hit them.
[3:37] The other day I was out in front of my house trimming my sidewalk.
[3:41] I had three guys conflying down the sidewalk, going faster than the cars.
[3:47] Two of them almost hit me in the third one I looked up and he didn't even slow down.
[3:51] He just went flying by me.
[3:53] The other day I'm driving down Dudley and I'm going towards the city building from my house
[3:59] and I clock some e-bikes doing 30 miles an hour on the sidewalks.
[4:05] None of this is according to the regulations or the rules.
[4:08] These are in place, ordered in 7302.
[4:12] There's rules and regulations, and you guys aren't enforcement.
[4:16] And I guess my big question is, who's going to get sued when somebody gets hurt?
[4:20] Is it for you guys because you don't enforce the rules and regulations or are the parents responsible?
[4:27] Somebody's going to get hurt.
[4:29] Dennis, we've been working on the situation.
[4:31] The police is also unaware of it as well.
[4:33] Well, we've also stopped some of the kids as well.
[4:37] The regulations that we're working on right now also address the speed and from the standpoint
[4:42] ways in which we can stop the individuals and proceed.
[4:47] Well, I know they're looking at this all around us.
[4:50] I know the Boone County's got three cities.
[4:51] They're looking at it.
[4:52] They're ready to develop rules and regulations.
[4:55] I understand Fort Mitchell is going to start enforcing it next week and that might be true
[5:00] or not.
[5:00] I don't know.
[5:01] I did see an issue about this on the edge of the next door site online from, basically,
[5:12] from one of the guys that's going to be running from Mayer, and he made an issue out of it,
[5:16] and I've tried to find that, but it's disappeared, and he was making an issue out of the fact
[5:21] that the city doesn't enforce the regulations, doesn't enforce the ordinance, in any way,
[5:27] He's that gentleman that you speak of has brought this before council before and honestly he doesn't know what he's talking about.
[5:35] He's not citing the right ordinance. I understand what you're citing and that is antiquated and that's why we've addressed it and we have draft draft ordinances that specifically addressed because the class of e-scooter or e-bike is not currently by our current ordinance identified.
[5:54] And that's what we're working on is making sure that
[5:56] Kentucky Revised Statute is lines up or we line up with
[6:00] Kentucky Revised Statute, which, quite honestly, is antiquated.
[6:03] Well, we're trying to pre-imp that so that we have an
[6:07] enforceable ordinance that our police can enforce.
[6:09] Because right now, our police can't really enforce 30 miles an hour on a bike
[6:14] because there's no way to know whether they're actually doing 30 miles an hour or not.
[6:17] So the ordinance we have in place means absolutely nothing.
[6:20] It's it's it's it's old. It's old. It's not it's not accurate from what from what we have on the roads and on the sidewalks right now. Yes, it's perfectly fine to do 30 miles an hour on the sidewalk.
[6:34] It's not perfectly fine according to the ordinance, but it does it's not enforceable because we can't physically catch them in any any meaningful way.
[6:43] And then when we do our police are stuck with charging Juvenile House with criminal law and we don't want that
[6:50] We don't want criminal law. We want it to be ordained so it's civil and so we can educate the parents
[6:55] That's why I would think of my stops and kids and you confiscated some bikes and you had their parents in court
[7:02] It says in here it's $250 fine for violating the ordinance
[7:06] Decide a couple people and you see put out a couple of fines and the word gets out of it and spread like wildfire and things will stop
[7:13] I agree with you.
[7:14] But I think the parents, I think they've turned these kid loop kids loose on these motorized
[7:19] vehicles because they don't want to take them to here or there to a practice or to whatever
[7:24] and they've turned a glimpse and they really haven't discussed the rules and regulations.
[7:28] I mean, it's pretty simple yielding the right of way, warning a pedestrian, past and
[7:33] pedestrians on one side, stepping off your scooter to walk across the main streets.
[7:37] It's not used in earphones when you're on, not riding passengers.
[7:42] I mean these are all pretty simple.
[7:44] Excuse me, what are you reading from exactly?
[7:47] What am I reading from?
[7:48] I'm reading from the Edgewood Local Ordnance 7302 concerning low-speed standing motorized scooters
[7:55] under 20 miles an hour, which are permitted on streets and sidewalks, provided the riders
[8:01] follow these rules.
[8:02] and the rules are yielding the right way, verbally warning a pedestrian that they're passing them,
[8:09] passing pedestrians on the left side when crossing a street, stepping off the scooter and walking
[8:15] across. Also, the use of earphones and passengers, these scooters weren't designed to accommodate.
[8:24] It's in the ordinance, it's in 7302 and the penalties are under 7399,
[8:31] the penalty for violating the rules are basically pay a criminal fine not to exceed
[8:37] the maximum amount of $250.
[8:39] My big thing is somebody's going to get hurt.
[8:42] So you may have also noticed, besides the scooters, e-bikes, which are not covered in the ordinance.
[8:49] There's no classification for e-bikes, they're considered bicycles.
[8:56] That's what we're changing, because we don't know if somebody could we pull somebody over
[9:01] and they say it's a scooter or no, it's an e-bike, it's not a scooter.
[9:04] So that's what we're trying to work on, it's ordinance so that we can enforce something
[9:09] because right now, somebody you pull somebody over and they're on, which you're calling
[9:13] a scooter, but they say, no, it's not a scooter, it's an e-bike.
[9:16] I think that was designed for moped's, those kind of vehicles.
[9:24] That's why we're running into this issue, and we're working on it.
[9:27] I mean, we had a draft that we received last council meeting.
[9:31] And Mr. Deener is working on another draft so that we could have it right hopefully for the next council meeting that we could try to get this figured out.
[9:39] Well, I've basically sent three emails to Mr. Deener, and I've not gotten one response yet to my emails.
[9:45] this has been in the the link newspaper on three different occasions I've
[9:50] written they've been talking about I don't know why they didn't include
[9:56] Edgewood but we haven't oh they didn't you know they say good counties got
[10:00] three cities that are looking at it for Mitchell's going to start doing
[10:03] something about enforcing regulations I don't know what regulations they've
[10:07] got but they're going to start enforcing regulation supposedly they've got
[10:10] their ordinance that we're trying to incorporate what they're they have I don't
[10:14] I think they passed that.
[10:15] Yeah.
[10:15] The first radio is delayed.
[10:16] Yeah.
[10:17] Fourth radio.
[10:18] We don't even know if that's going to pass.
[10:19] So we might have another first hearing.
[10:21] And that draft ordinance stipulates specifically what is a class one scooter?
[10:26] Second class.
[10:27] Class two, class three.
[10:28] Right.
[10:29] And speed.
[10:30] Right.
[10:30] And right now ours doesn't.
[10:32] And we can't address because our definitions are so outdated.
[10:36] Like Mr. Shriver was saying, our definitions are so outdated that our police are in a spot where
[10:42] but they can't enforce them and still be in line
[10:45] with Kentucky revised statute.
[10:47] Well, I don't see anything on your schedule
[10:48] for tonight to even discuss the issue.
[10:50] So you guys are apparently, we did last,
[10:53] if you go back and watch the last one,
[10:55] we very specifically did.
[10:56] I encourage you to go back and look at the last meeting
[10:59] where we talked about this extensively.
[11:01] It was a big section of our last meeting.
[11:04] And I think that everyone here recognizes
[11:07] that this is a problem for walkers,
[11:12] joggers, people with walking dogs, strollers, et cetera, that are on the sidewalks.
[11:18] It's very much recognized and very much talked about.
[11:23] And we are trying to come up with an ordinance that gives some teeth for the police, whether
[11:30] it's a confiscation, and also still allow the kids to use them in some instances, whether
[11:39] it's by speed or what, as Jamie said.
[11:41] But it's recognized, we're not ignoring this, we're not
[11:45] got our heads in the sand by enemies.
[11:48] OK, well, I hear you're frustration.
[11:51] I am frustrated as well because we don't have anything yet.
[11:54] I'm not trying to talk you down.
[11:57] That's not my intent.
[11:59] We are addressing it.
[12:00] So if you're frustration, my voice is because we
[12:02] have spent a lot of time on this.
[12:04] We just have not been able to put it in place yet,
[12:06] because, again, Kentucky Revista actually is outdated.
[12:09] and we're trying to make sure that we're in line with
[12:11] particular by statute to be able to,
[12:13] but honestly, confiscate the violators.
[12:16] But right now, we can't buy what our women says.
[12:19] With it being a criminal conviction.
[12:22] It seems like you could put some kind of rules
[12:24] on speed on sidewalks that the scooters
[12:27] have not supposed to go over 20 miles per hour.
[12:30] This new ordinance does address that
[12:31] and we're really close to a bill to vote on it.
[12:35] We just don't have it yet.
[12:36] Well, all I know is the link north of Kentucky has talked about Florence, Ben County,
[12:43] we're talking about Fort Mitchell, we're talking about Ken County, Ben County, but they're not talking about which woods.
[12:48] And I'm going to outlay blame at their feet at this point because we have.
[12:53] If you go back and look at our meeting schedules, we have talked about it.
[12:59] So spring we went over the rules again and we worked to get information out to the resource
[13:05] officers to pass out to the kids that we have been talking about this for a while.
[13:11] And acting on it, we've been trying to go the route of educating parents through the
[13:15] resource schoolers' officers through the schools and trying that route hoping that maybe
[13:21] education parents would influence this it hasn't and acknowledging that right now by directing
[13:27] in your new ordinance.
[13:28] I think if you pull a couple of over,
[13:30] confiscate a few scooters and find a few parents,
[13:32] the world will go down like wildfire.
[13:34] I agree, Dennis.
[13:36] I agree.
[13:37] I wish somebody to get the word in the place.
[13:39] Okay, so where do they go?
[13:41] I mean, where do you go?
[13:42] Do you see the parents?
[13:43] When you get hurt, do you send them the block of this?
[13:46] Do I send them to the city?
[13:47] Because they have an enforced ordinance
[13:49] that they've got on the books.
[13:50] Yeah.
[13:51] I live in a world of liability.
[13:53] That's what I do.
[13:54] and it is a scary situation.
[13:58] I agree with you.
[14:00] The liability can be found in a lot of different places,
[14:04] depending on who's looking and what their benefits are.
[14:06] It's a super crazy world.
[14:07] Yes, sir.
[14:08] Well, thank you very much.
[14:10] And like I said, you'll see more coming from us
[14:12] as well on that.
[14:14] Can I just go there and buy a few things?
[14:17] One, just so everybody has an understanding,
[14:19] our court current ordinance, we would actually issue a misdemeanor against the
[14:28] individual criminal citation. That individual will go to a court. A court will
[14:33] sentence them if they are guilty of the misdemeanor and can levier fine. Our
[14:39] police officers under this ordinance does not levier a violation of notice.
[14:44] They just issue to the person who's doing it and file the charges of a misdemeanor.
[14:51] That individual would have to go to court and if sentenced in a competent court,
[14:56] they would then be able to have a fine up to $205.
[15:00] As it exists today, they don't go out there and say, hey, here's your fine for $250. They're going to go out there to a 14-year-old and say, we are filing a misdemeanor charge against you. You are going to go to court. A judge is going to rule whether or not you are guilty or not and can find you up to $250. We find that not acceptable that we would be filing charges of misdemeanors against kids that have to go to court to do it. Secondly, you can not confiscate
[15:29] a scooter, a bicycle or anything else because it's in violation of the law and we would
[15:35] be seizing property without having the ability to do that unless we have that in an ordinance
[15:39] and the ordinance does not specify they can do that.
[15:43] So we would be taking property without being able to have a warrant or anything else to seize
[15:48] that property.
[15:50] Again, under the existing ordinance.
[15:53] So we have issues with the existing ordinance.
[15:55] And the last thing is our police department is doing something about it.
[16:00] They're stopping, they're talking, they're trying to get something done every time they see it.
[16:06] We're passing out flyers at schools to educate.
[16:10] We put it on our social media. We've done everything that we possibly can.
[16:14] The last step that we have is trying to figure out how we have an ordinance that we can enforce properly
[16:20] and do it to the ability that there are all those scooters that you see
[16:25] were bought by individual parents that believe they kids can rise on and
[16:29] somehow we got to come to an agreement there's some acceptable means in
[16:32] which they can exist and we can make sure that people are safe right and so we're
[16:37] doing that we have three or four ordinances the police department is reviewing the
[16:41] chief and I sat down today to get feedback and the last meeting we had a long
[16:45] conversation about it we got feedback from council and now we're adjusting them
[16:49] and now we will send those to the attorney
[16:51] to make sure that they feel comfortable with the ordinance.
[16:54] But none of those other communities have passed their ordinances
[16:57] and the reason they're adopting ordinances
[16:59] is to fix the ordinances just like we have.
[17:03] Outdated old ordinances that you cannot enforce.
[17:08] So we're trying to do that and we're addressing that.
[17:11] And nobody is arguing the fact that like we don't have an issue,
[17:15] we have an issue, right?
[17:16] And we've got to come up with a way
[17:17] that we can resolve that issue and if we would have anything in place that you
[17:23] said, our ordinance does not help the instances that you say because our
[17:27] police officers did not witness that unless you would like to go file the
[17:31] charges against those individuals. So we have to fix that.
[17:38] We know the ordinance that they have because we have that sample and they're
[17:43] amending their chapter 73, which is almost identical to ours, and they're putting language
[17:48] in that we're looking at to make sure that the language they have, did they see something
[17:55] that we didn't see in the language that we have? We have four promises, and we're evaluating
[17:59] their ordinance to see if they have language that we didn't want to include in ours, and
[18:05] believe it or not, all of them are about the same, because there's only so many things
[18:10] you can do to it. So we will not have to wait to see what they do because they've not had a first
[18:15] reading on it yet. Hopefully by the time Mr. Rickman reviews it comes back said here's one
[18:22] that I'm acceptable to that meets the standard of a law and that our police department they feel
[18:28] comfortable that they it's not it doesn't have a lot of ambiguity to it to where they're just trying
[18:33] to figure out hey what did they mean or not mean is it a scooter that goes 15 miles or 10 mile an hour
[18:40] is that acceptable to you if it was 10? Can they ride 10 mile an hour on the sidewalk?
[19:15] And one of the goals is to give our police the ability to seize them when they see them
[19:20] and to hold the parents accountable so the parents have to come up here and sign it out
[19:25] and say, oh, I've not been teaching my children how to do this and here's proof because they've
[19:31] got to get their scooter out of them. Right now, we can't do that because of how the importance is
[19:36] Have you seen the size of some of them that they have?
[19:39] Have you seen the size of some of the electric bikes that they're riding on and stuff?
[19:45] How would you like one of our police officers driving a Dodge charger to seize that EVike?
[19:53] We got to figure that out, right?
[19:55] So that's why we're not just going to jump to passing something tonight or getting it in place.
[20:00] We got to work through that issue because there's going to be a bike sitting out there that we've got to figure out
[20:06] Are we how we getting it from that location to here or how are we not taking a kid that's under age and telling them at some part of the
[20:14] Community hey, you're off your bike figure out how to get home or go somewhere else
[20:19] But this is not you're not taking this so we got to work through all those policies of are we going to contact their parents?
[20:25] Are they going to come pick them up?
[20:27] How are we going to seize that vehicle?
[20:30] All of those things are things you have to work through.
[20:32] It isn't as simple as just saying.
[20:34] Just grab their bike, take it back, put it in there,
[20:36] tell them to come and give them a $250 fine.
[20:39] We don't have the ability to do that right now.
[20:41] Because it's a criminal offense under our ordinance.
[20:45] It's not a civil offense, or it's not a code enforcement offense.
[20:48] Well, I don't think it's an issue you can play down on.
[20:51] We aren't laying down on it.
[20:52] People are proactive people, somebody gets serious.
[20:55] I don't think any one of the council members, the mayor, have ever said we're not going
[20:59] to do something.
[21:00] We just want to make sure when we work through those steps that what we put in place,
[21:04] we're not coming back six months later and going, hey, we messed this up, we got to do it
[21:07] again and again and again.
[21:09] We want to make sure that when we put it in place, we're addressing not only the people
[21:13] who are saying, we don't want these things and they're getting out of control to a block
[21:18] of the people that are saying, well, I have no problem with my kid riding a scooter on
[21:22] the sidewalk, right?
[21:23] and then we've got to figure out what that compromise is to allow for a safe
[21:27] environment for everybody, but to still be able to enjoy the scooter or the
[21:34] e-bike or whatever they're going to have and how do we do that in the community
[21:37] great. One thing I'd like to add is all the kids you see
[21:42] riding, don't assume that they're all living in Adjwood because there's lots of
[21:46] Adjwood kids that hang out at Cresby Hills Mall that are on Dixie Highway and it
[21:52] It would be best case scenario if the city's at least around here to be aligned or very
[21:58] similar with their ordinances.
[22:00] And that may take another polishing up at some point because of that, hard if you've
[22:09] got a kid from Edgwood who gets his bike taken away in Cresby Hills or Fort Mitchell or even
[22:14] Villa Hills.
[22:15] Well, I think it's something we need to move on, because someday I'm going to be able to say that somebody has to be on it.
[22:23] He has to do it right from the very last night.
[22:26] I can hear T. It's going to be a service.
[22:29] I don't know that thing.
[22:32] We've got a selection company.
[22:33] I think it's going to be an issue because it's an issue in all the cities around this institution.
[22:39] Absolutely, it doesn't.
[22:40] We hear anything about the city of Ed.
[22:43] Dennis again I would encourage you to look at our previous meetings. I would
[22:47] encourage you to look at our previous meetings. Just because you don't see it in
[22:51] the link or on next door does not mean it's not happening here. Please look at
[22:55] our previous meetings to see how we have discussed this and how we're trying to
[22:58] move on. Okay I'm not trying to hang you out the dry there. That's we are truly
[23:03] we have multiple drafts right now of an ordinance to try and work this to
[23:08] sooner than later and just because we're not getting headlines doesn't mean
[23:11] we're not doing it yes sir my family and I are one of those so the so the
[23:19] issue we're dealing with right now you don't you say you don't want to be hit
[23:22] by one of them the issue that we're dealing right now is we have a person who has
[23:27] hit someone on an e-bike not a knee bike hitting someone on that the person that was
[23:34] on the sidewalk jogging, hit the person who was running or was on the e-bike. So we're dealing
[23:41] with two of bunch of different issues here that so we don't have anybody who has complained
[23:46] yet that they got hit by a scooter or an e-bike but we do have a person on an e-bike saying
[23:50] a person jogging on the sidewalk hit me.
[23:55] That's how that's how kind of crazy it gets when you're
[24:02] I don't know the answer to that, I don't know the answer, that would be a chief issue.
[24:07] If they were riding their e-bike on the street, would they have to be 16 chief?
[24:13] I don't have the hair as the problem with my understanding that a low speed vehicle would operate one.
[24:18] We talked about that last time at the last meeting.
[24:20] There is a statute that addresses low speed vehicles and we believe that it would fit
[24:26] with under that low-speed vehicle and a low-speed vehicle under the KRS, it does not have to be a license driver,
[24:34] it does not have to have a license plate, all of those things under low-speed vehicles.
[24:40] The issue becomes, some of those, as you said, go way faster than that.
[24:45] Some go 30, 40-mile an hour or maybe faster.
[24:50] So, but understand it is being addressed and we believe once it's addressed it put in place.
[24:56] and we have we've gotten down to it. I got feedback from some of the council members at the last meeting and said a
[25:02] Provide your feedback to me so I could feed it back so we can get it into the ordinance
[25:06] We're working on that now and two weeks. We've got to that point
[25:11] Chief and I met today probably for over an hour hour and a half talking about e-vikes
[25:15] So his department could provide feedback to the ordinances that we have so we can make that adjustments
[25:38] They are going to account for them to enforce their ordinance, but they are not, they're not
[25:46] enforcing their ordinance, right?
[25:48] Because we have ordinances that were put in place when this was not even a discussion.
[25:54] So we have to adjust, adjust to make sure that now we put them into it and we define those things and we know exactly what they were.
[26:01] That ordinance was put together 25 years ago when nobody even talked about a knee-biker or a scooter, right?
[26:08] Except for the ones you pushed with your legs or pedal, right?
[26:12] So now we have to update that, and that's what we're going to do.
[26:14] But when we first started this over a year ago and we said something needed to be done,
[26:19] what we got was, we need to educate everybody, we need to educate everybody.
[26:23] We went through those steps, in every school that we have in Edgerwood, we were passing out
[26:29] information about how to be courteous like you were talking about when you're writing,
[26:35] what you should do, what you shouldn't do, what you have to do.
[26:38] That didn't work, apparently, right?
[26:40] So now we've been talking about, okay, how do we define a system that is punishment is there
[26:47] that we hope will correct the behavior,
[26:50] but not so much that it is punishment
[26:53] that we're criminally convicting
[26:56] an individual riding an e-bike
[26:59] or a scooter that's on the sidewalk, right?
[27:02] So we're trying to figure out that balance.
[27:04] And I think we're gonna get there
[27:06] in a very short period of time.
[27:07] We're almost there now.
[27:08] We just need, we just were waiting for feedback.
[27:11] And in the last council meeting,
[27:13] we talked a long time about it.
[27:19] We are working on it. Thanks, Dennis. Appreciate comments on it. We will have to approve of the agenda. Anybody want to add anything or adjust the agenda that we have in front of us?
[27:31] If not, then I will address the August 3, 2026 minutes.
[27:38] First and second are the adjustments to that.
[27:40] We'll make a motion to accept the minutes for August 3rd, 2026.
[27:45] Mr. Rue, Dr.
[27:48] Mr. Buster, call a role, please.
[27:52] Mr. Rule.
[27:53] Yes.
[27:54] Mr. Messmer.
[27:55] Yes.
[27:56] Mr. Barler.
[27:57] Yes.
[27:57] Mr. Shriver.
[27:58] Yes.
[27:59] Mr. Spear.
[28:00] Yes.
[28:00] Dr. Svilly.
[28:01] Mr. Feely.
[28:03] Yes.
[28:04] August 3rd, 2026.
[28:06] Minutes stands as presented.
[28:07] and tonight we have the mayor's reports
[28:09] and some of the staff reports.
[28:11] The only thing I've got to report to everybody
[28:12] is from the standpoint of the Kentucky League of Cities
[28:14] is bringing their convention up to Covington in September.
[28:20] So we'll look out for that from the standpoint
[28:23] and anybody that would like to attend those seminars
[28:25] or those meetings and dinners as well.
[28:28] Let us know as we get more detailed,
[28:31] it's gonna be about September the 22nd somewhere
[28:34] in there is what the three dates are and it'll be down in Covington so we'll basically
[28:39] keep everybody informed in that and if you wish to attend some of those seminars and
[28:44] dinners and so forth you're more than welcome to do so and we'll get you everybody posted
[28:49] on that as well.
[28:50] The staff reports tonight and any questions on Blandis on the City Clerk of
[28:59] the fire with
[28:59] Tom,
[29:04] the General Services with Rick,
[29:08] please with Jimmy.
[29:10] I would like to out loud thank the police department for continually sending
[29:16] people officers to CIT, the crisis intervention training. I think as we continue
[29:23] to suffer from mental health illness rampant in our community that it's
[29:30] important that we have that kind of training and I'm just glad to see the
[29:33] officer wild just graduated from that course so thank you Chief for making that
[29:36] priority. We set that up a few years ago and that's been very well, very worthwhile, you know.
[29:44] And then of course recreation.
[29:50] On the recreation I'd like to say thank you very much
[29:53] for the golf outing. We should have brought the sign up here today that the thank everybody
[29:57] from the standpoint of progress.
[30:00] Participate in them with goods as well as with golfers. We had an exceptional day from the
[30:10] standpoint and a fun day. And it was a good to meet everybody from the standpoint. I did
[30:14] not play golf this year. I said it one of the holes so that I could meet all the people
[30:20] and greet them. It was a great thing to do from the standpoint of every time you kind of
[30:25] come to a golf out of you kind of shake hands and it's kind of like you're waving
[30:28] your hand like in a parade. So this year from St.
[30:32] Point I got up and I met with everybody at the third hole at the gave them a
[30:38] poker run, a poker card as well. So again in some of the council members and those
[30:43] in attendance, thank you very much. We had a great time but again on all the
[30:48] sponsors from St. Point that helped us out. It was a great success and very
[30:53] successful as well so thank you Ian as well. With that we'll run into the fire shift that we've
[31:01] been talking about in recruitment and retention and Mr. Dickman would you like to make a presentation?
[31:14] Mayor council tonight I just wanted to bring forth to you about a proposal to adjust the fire
[31:20] providers work scheduled from the 56-hour work week to a 48-hour work week.
[31:25] I know we've discussed this in years past, but I think it's something that I need to
[31:29] re-address here today.
[31:32] This proposal will align the department with more competitive of the Northern Hockey
[31:37] Regional Departments, who also averaged a 48-hour work week.
[31:42] Now, as the memo indicates, I've outlined, or Mr. Dean had also included, the memo will
[31:49] require additional staffing, investment and additional staffing of three personnel to accomplish this reduced work week from 56 down to 48.
[32:00] And it will help us with the long-term stability, recruitment, and retention of our current personnel, some issues that we've been turning over here recently.
[32:10] Just kind of that's a brief overview, I know there is a memo included in tonight's proposal for you for your review.
[32:16] And I can answer any questions you might have about the proposal to get into specifics and
[32:21] should any questions you might have.
[32:25] I don't have any questions, but I think my biggest concern was the expense at the time
[32:32] this was brought up, the last time this was brought up, I did not think the city could
[32:37] afford to do it, and now I do think the city can't afford to do it, and we're not doing
[32:42] the Dudley Road project, we're saving over a million dollars with that project, and I think
[32:47] we could afford to do this and I think it's something that we have to. I just don't see any,
[32:54] any other reason not to do it besides the expense so that's gone so I'm on board with this
[33:01] I think we have to do it. So is it an additional expense every year? It's going to be an ongoing expense
[33:07] yeah I think it was about $400,000 it won't be $400,000 this year because by the time
[33:14] everybody's hired it'll be about half that yeah like but it's going to be an
[33:18] on 26th and all the other departments around thousand first doing it so it's
[33:23] hard to retain any any employees I mean I think the work week is a long
[33:30] couple of years you know most people were 40 years these guys were more than that
[33:36] we're just reduced down 48 I think anyone that's ever been part of a hiring
[33:41] process knows that it's more expensive to hire in than it is simply to retain.
[33:47] So this would be part of the retainership of the personnel.
[33:51] Some of the issues were also with the retention.
[33:55] We have an individual's after a couple years maybe working here employed here for a couple
[33:59] years getting all their certifications and then become prime candidates for neighboring
[34:05] departments who offer a reduced work week average and they're leaving us to go to the
[34:11] those departments and so we start back over with those individuals who are finding those candidates that are at the basic level, basic firefighter certification, the basic EMT certifications, and we're basically putting that that investment of time into that and it's creating an issue for the succession plan, the clock's ticking on all of us as far as the years of service, and it's creating like who's the next individual up to fill those roles if they're leaving after two or three years.
[34:38] That becomes a real issue for the department and our succession.
[34:44] I don't see how we can afford an additional $400,000 a year for essentially three or four
[34:54] firefighters or paramedics. I just don't see that.
[34:59] I, after you sent that in the amount I read it and I talked to a lot of friends who are in
[35:03] emergency services at different levels of leadership.
[35:07] a system chiefs of very large cities,
[35:10] and they said that this is unnecessary.
[35:14] So I'm going to be funding instead.
[35:17] Sorry, Chief.
[35:18] No, I understand.
[35:20] But I know through our hiring, recent hiring practices,
[35:23] like I said, we've lost two individuals
[35:25] that some of their reasons for leaving
[35:28] were the reduced work week.
[35:30] And we've, in here in July, we've lost the third one.
[35:34] We had a fourth individual come express desire to potentially move again for that 48-hour
[35:45] work week and what it does is as far as it creates vacancies and then when we advertise,
[35:52] we're not giving the experience individuals, we're giving individuals that may be either volunteers
[35:58] or internship personnel that are far from experience and my concern becomes on the service
[36:03] delivery to the community and retaining that. There's other apartments. They might be able to offer
[36:10] other benefits and other things that we're just unable to offer and talk about structures. I can't
[36:16] create structures. I can't create trauma runs, but we can adjust the benefit issue and this is one
[36:22] of the areas that I'm interested in trying to achieve. Do we know how much it costs to train up?
[36:27] somebody say they were brand new ground floor so roughly you know if it's an EMT
[36:35] they're firefighter certification and if you also consider the the
[36:40] paramedic certification you're talking roughly to be up to twenty twenty five
[36:43] thousand dollars per individual per individual that's just their their basic
[36:48] training of those certifications there's obviously ongoing investment of
[36:53] the additional training here around the staff here around the department itself.
[36:59] Do we have a list of cities around us, what their work weeks are?
[37:06] So I kind of did a brief overview of we're looking around the surrounding neighborhoods.
[37:12] Those individuals, those departments have about 48 hour work week, Taylor Mill,
[37:16] So, Port Mitchell, Cubbington, Independence, Independence, just recently reduced theirs
[37:26] down to a 48 hour work week.
[37:28] Earl Langer actually had the same thing with a 56 hour work week.
[37:33] They transitioned down to a 42 hour work week by accomplishing work in 24 hour shifts and
[37:38] 72 hours off.
[37:39] And so, what we're proposing transition to is a 48 hour work week, they are actually
[37:45] done to a 42.
[37:48] There's a lot of competitive departments that are maybe sane as far as run volume or
[38:00] demographics, and those departments are carrying a lower 48 hour average work week.
[38:07] But what's the floor?
[38:09] Yes.
[38:09] Floants, they are actually, they are still 56-hour work week, they have compensations already
[38:15] has discussed step plans where they actually, their financial reward after retention is actually
[38:22] greatly steps up to retain those individuals.
[38:27] So they're more aggressive on those steps and their pay is actually a start out as a hire as well.
[38:32] With
[38:40] Earl Younger, you said they're down to 42.
[38:42] Did they have to hire or did they just change shifts?
[38:46] So they did a couple of things.
[38:48] They actually, some of the, my assumptions,
[38:52] some of the things, they've reassessed
[38:54] to reassign those individuals.
[38:56] They seem to have more top heavy and administrative
[39:00] through some of those individuals that took retirement.
[39:03] They left.
[39:04] They also were reassigned for maybe the time chief's positions
[39:07] down to captain's positions.
[39:09] And then so, again, through attrition and things like that, they had some vacancies.
[39:14] They did have to do some hiring, but there were a number of personnel on the shift now
[39:20] has actually been reduced from what they had before.
[39:23] They had ten individuals on the shift and they went down to eight individuals as my understanding.
[39:28] So I know at one point in time you gave us a list of the levels at which different cities
[39:37] have, you know, more administrator, more middle and beginners.
[39:42] Correct.
[39:46] You know, I guess I'm kind of curious, are we beginner heavy?
[39:50] We are beginner heavy.
[39:52] Out of our 17 staff members, we have full time, currently right now.
[39:59] We have 11 individuals that have less than five years experience with the City of Edgewood.
[40:05] So, how many years they've been with the City of Vigil?
[40:09] So, right now, by concern for us, when I look at those individuals as far as years of experience,
[40:17] or where they fall in line with their retirement or their pension type of thing,
[40:22] we have four individuals that have 20 to plus years that are eligible for retirement,
[40:26] three individuals that are retired, rehires.
[40:29] So those seven individuals, I'd say that in a moment's notice could go at any time.
[40:35] And then we have just one individual I think it's in the 16 to 20 years.
[40:45] Yeah, and then the next one is we have one employee that's got six to 10 years in the retirement system.
[40:51] And then those individuals have a much longer time to go.
[40:56] So we have seven individuals that have 20 or 25 years yet to go.
[40:59] So they're in the, they've just started out in the process.
[41:02] So we have seven individuals like that.
[41:04] And that's, again, kind of been the focus in what we've been going through is those individuals
[41:10] that have the one and two, two to three years and then moving on to departments.
[41:14] We're creating that gap in the middle years, the future leaders of the organization, we're
[41:20] losing that, say, transition to another department.
[41:22] Chief, you mentioned that I think it was Florence that has the step-ups.
[41:27] Step-grades, yes.
[41:29] Step-grades, excuse me.
[41:30] Have we explored what that would look like and how much that will cost versus $389,000
[41:36] annually?
[41:39] So the balance comes into this as far as when I talk to the staff and the candidates
[41:45] out there.
[41:46] It's a work-life balance.
[41:49] When I started so many years ago in the emergency services, you know, there wasn't enough
[41:56] over time that people, you know, because everybody was trying to grab it up and try
[42:00] and to work.
[42:01] Now it's becoming not just our department, but it's across all departments, and I think
[42:06] across many professions, that people are trying to say, hey, why won't that work like balance?
[42:11] I want to have the equal time off, and that's been one of the driving factors that not only
[42:16] is addressed, you know, art department,
[42:18] but addressed throughout the word tucking.
[42:21] And in so much so, as far as, as I've kind of touched
[42:24] on Earl Langer, they make the election to do a 24-72.
[42:30] That has been a big change throughout the nation
[42:33] and even the state of Kentucky.
[42:34] It's big down in Jefferson Town, down Louisville area
[42:37] that are skating a lot of speed.
[42:40] Some states, even the state of Florida,
[42:42] the Santa's actually passed a bill requiring all future departments, all departments to consider
[42:48] and adjust into a 24-7-2 out of work rate. So it's creating, trying to create that work-life balance
[42:54] where we're finding more and more. That's the driving issue of the staff and candidates. That's
[43:00] what they're looking for. So your belief is that they would not, our current and prospective employees,
[43:06] these firefighters and paramedics would not be enticed by any kind of step-grade?
[43:13] Um, we're advertising that the rates that we are now and we're not enticing, no, we're
[43:19] not enticing those individuals, maybe a neighboring department who has the 48-hour average
[43:25] rate.
[43:25] Well, I'm sorry.
[43:26] I wasn't asking about other 48.
[43:27] I was talking about, if we said 56, he did, like, Florence, the step-grade.
[43:31] What would that cost be?
[43:33] And would that be enticing?
[43:34] It seems like it works for Florence, I guess.
[43:37] I can't believe it.
[43:38] The initial adjustment would be hundreds of thousands
[43:40] because they start out much higher
[43:44] than we even have some of our four, five year
[43:48] firefighter medics here already.
[43:49] It'd be good to see that because right now,
[43:51] I'm just looking at a $399,000 per year increase
[43:54] in far less.
[43:55] It'd be good to see side by side what that looks like.
[43:58] It's not, and also just to combat what you said earlier,
[44:01] We are out of the seven largest apartments in northern Kentucky.
[44:05] Six of them have a 48 hour work week, by the way.
[44:08] So when you talk about large departments,
[44:10] saying they don't need it or don't want it,
[44:12] seven of the six of the seven outside of Florence,
[44:16] all the rest from Hebron to Newport,
[44:19] to Covington to Earl Langer, to Independence, to the airport,
[44:22] all of the big departments, and you're saying that
[44:25] you've talked to big departments that say they don't need it
[44:28] and it's not needed.
[44:29] We have seven and six of them do it.
[44:32] I would hope that we wouldn't make a decision based on what other people are doing, but what
[44:36] all makes sense, right?
[44:38] And that's what we're doing.
[44:39] We're asking us what somebody else is doing to see if we can do what they're doing.
[44:44] I would just like to see side-by-side closeness, we're telling you that competitively, when
[44:50] we have 31 candidates, not one of them come from those departments of that, and most
[44:55] of the 31 candidates had zero experience.
[44:57] things they were in.
[45:00] We've lost almost four in the last three months to competitors that have 48 hour work weeks and those people who've left us indicated that is the number one reason they left. And we have multiple other ones that are looking at other departments right now that we're trying to do common sense and not lose them to other departments and make decisions that we believe will combat that to do it. Brian, maybe you could address the affordability for the city. Can the city afford to do this?
[45:29] So that's just so opposed to out that we are still doing
[45:35] doubly road. We're just not doing the original project.
[45:38] We are fixing it and paving it and doing all the stuff.
[45:42] We're just not some of the work that we want to do.
[45:44] So we'll think that one. I just want to make sure that
[45:47] council has decided that we are going to be done next month.
[45:53] Secondly, when we took out the fact that what
[45:56] But Jeff was indicating that in the budget, the original discussion was, we probably
[46:01] cannot afford this because the Dudley Road, over the next several years, is going to take
[46:06] up several millions of dollars in our current budget, but when we take that adjustment out
[46:12] and we make the adjustment to the work that's going to be done on Dudley Road in comparison
[46:16] to the other projects that we're going to do on Dudley Road, when we make that adjustment,
[46:21] our budget will still, if we put in the proposal that the chief's done, we will
[46:26] net over a million dollars plus in our general fund at the end of the fiscal year because of the
[46:32] offset that we were going to do for Dudley Road, which I believe we had somewhere around maybe
[46:37] 1.5 million dollars budget in for the Dudley Road project. So the affordability of it is now,
[46:44] once that project will be done and over, the only big large road project we have left is Charter Oak.
[46:50] We already have that in the budget, and we have those cycles already kind of in place to handle it.
[46:57] So, the affordability side of it, and that's only me saying that that may, Jamie, that might not be you believing that we have it, which is perfectly acceptable.
[47:07] But I'm just saying that when we take Dunley Road, the bulk of that project out that we were going to do, put back the cost of what we are really going to do.
[47:16] We will have, if we don't do this process, we don't approve what the chief is asking for.
[47:24] We will have somewhere around 1.3 or 1.4 million plus in the General Fund next year at the end of the year.
[47:31] So we thought we were going to end at about 5.7, I think it was maybe.
[47:36] We're going to end at 6.8 and that's estimating what the proposal is to the chief.
[47:44] And if not, we would end up somewhere around 7 million instead of 5.7.
[47:48] So the affordability, we're not going backwards and the tax rate that we're proposing today
[47:54] is lower than the tax rate that was last year.
[47:56] So we're going to be able to do that with the affordability of it.
[48:00] And again, I'm saying that as a affordability council has the privilege of saying we don't
[48:06] believe that that still does not meet the means of affordability.
[48:09] So just so you know the actual numbers, that's what they are.
[48:12] Yeah, I mean support of the change, however, we do need to clean up the budget if we're
[48:18] going to add then we need to write us what's in the road fund.
[48:22] I know that there are some open items on estimates and things, but we can't leave the current
[48:28] amount of the roads in there without and then add on the fire department.
[48:32] So we need to put and take at the same time with the amendment.
[48:36] So Dr. Spirley just to kind of assure, I was actually going to come back and make
[48:41] that tonight to be one of the recommendations for an amendment. Council just
[48:45] asked if I would hold off until we knew exactly what the WRA was and then we
[48:50] would do the amendment but I do believe 700,000 for that is more than enough.
[48:55] The only number that I don't have right now is the striking of the cost
[48:59] walks and we're working on that to make sure that we can get those in and we just
[49:03] got to wait till after the milling is done and although it's down and then we'll
[49:06] strike them but we're working on that final estimate but I don't think that
[49:10] I mean the last time we did all the ones we did wasn't it was under $20,000 so I think it should
[49:16] not be a budget. It's not a budget impact. It's not a impact to the budget. So I believe my business
[49:22] we call that rounding. Yeah so right now I believe we're maybe 500,000 on Dudley Road to do the middle
[49:29] full debt repairs and all of the replacement and the striping and maybe 20, 30 in engineering and
[49:37] maybe another 20. So that 700 that amestimating on those numbers I think is more
[49:42] enough for that could be lower. But council just ask I wait until that's done
[49:47] and we know it and it make one big adjustment so we know it's an accurate
[49:52] number. So we are going to make that adjustment pull it out.
[49:56] Thank you sir.
[49:59] What over the last six months nine months what has the staffing level been on your
[50:04] have you been able to 100 percent?
[50:07] No, no. In fact, we've been running short since June.
[50:13] We had two individuals leave.
[50:16] We did go out to advertise for those positions.
[50:20] And that's created, obviously, a draw on our staff
[50:23] as far as the overtime budget there.
[50:26] And it's the difficult time as far as the vacancies
[50:31] of a shift that creates, you know, trying to equip all the apparatus and the
[50:36] ambulances that we have that's been showing some some issues for us. We get
[50:43] those dips, maybe not both evidence be able to be in service for period of
[50:48] time. We've experienced those issues.
[50:52] Then the other question I have is, you know, we we get funds from other cities
[51:00] other entities that go into their department, right? So, tell me, talk to me about the contract
[51:09] situation there, are those contracts coming up again? Can we do more out of the rocks there?
[51:16] Yeah, so what we did three years ago, Tom? About three years ago. So what we did three years ago,
[51:23] because we were continually negotiating those contracts, they'll put them out the bid. We have an
[51:28] escalator clause in I think it's three or four percent. So that way, unless it comes to a point, we can open it back up and
[51:35] to negotiate, but we net 400,000. I think it's about 450,000.
[51:43] 450,000 right now.
[51:46] The contracts we have in place are considered fair and appropriate.
[51:50] I believe so.
[51:52] Well, I mean, wouldn't this be a situation since we are changing the staffing and changing
[51:57] the time that you could renegotiate the contract, it's sort of like a...
[52:03] For Mitchell, and we went with For Mitchell to negotiate this contract, and right now, For
[52:10] Mitchell's doing a 48-hour work week, so they're affording it, I'm not sure how, but I think
[52:16] to build on what I'm hearing is there's a per-run rate and that per-run rate within the city
[52:23] without the city is impacted by a few factors one of which being over time the other which being
[52:28] salary if we are going to materially balance change the balance of that per-run rate wherever the
[52:36] call is with an additional $400,000 in expense that may not be a net net increase of $400,000 it may
[52:42] be a delta of 350 or whatever because we might have 100 grand in overtime because of the staffing
[52:49] challenges but I would think we would rebalance it and look to make sure that rate you know that
[52:55] same increase in delta we look to apply to some of those contracts not necessarily for renegotiations
[53:00] just a rebalancing of our program rate is up x percent because of these type of recruiting challenges
[53:07] so we do need to look and say if you're at x dollars right now for a year you know we need to
[53:12] increase that by 4%, in fact, whatever that is over what our built-in escalator might
[53:20] be. I'm not saying we have to do it, saying it's something we should look at and make
[53:25] a business decision about. Is that number that you said? Is that just the contract or does
[53:32] that include the insurance payments that we're also collecting from those funds?
[53:35] I think that's also the EMS billing rates on that as well.
[53:45] There's only a few services here, the city provides, right, that are necessary.
[53:54] I've always thought that we need to be competitive and that we need to have staffing levels at 100 percent.
[54:02] If that means cutting somewhere else, that's something we need to consider.
[54:09] There's no other way to do this.
[54:12] Right, this is just what I'm saying in the market.
[54:17] You know, I'm not, you know, it's just one of those things that the current individuals
[54:25] that are looking for employment and that are looking and those are items that people are looking at
[54:30] as what's the average work week, you know, things.
[54:35] It's becoming to stand there and this is in a luxury and the fact that there isn't
[54:40] enough in the labor market to hire. I mean it's it's down to you may not like it
[54:46] but if you're going to compete you have to kind of offer it and there are more
[54:51] cities right now talking about changing if they aren't at a 48 hour workweek
[54:57] in our 56s. They're going to find out when they do their recruitment. Their list
[55:01] This is going to get shorter and they're going to be hiring people that are interns, volunteers.
[55:08] And providing that service means someone's going to pull up in front of your house in an
[55:12] ambulance that has less than three years of experience, right?
[55:16] And so, or the number of people that we do have here that are experienced are going to go
[55:21] into a fire and fight the fire with someone that has less than two or three years of experience,
[55:27] right?
[55:28] And then it's also since we are beginner heavy the middle is weak and the top could go at any time we're going to quite a weak position.
[55:40] And that's because of the labor market. It's not nothing that you all know.
[55:45] I know. I know. It's just the common things that we've asked.
[55:47] You've supported raising salaries. Right.
[55:50] and we fought it and fought it and fought it until I believe now that I have a question
[55:58] for Chief regarding that point that you had 33 or 31 candidates listed here yes are
[56:07] do you know what the average amount of experience those applicants have are we
[56:13] getting people with one or two years experience applying we know we're across the
[56:16] Lord or I don't have the numbers back broken down the categories, but we had individuals that didn't even have have all the fire
[56:23] Basic one certifications. Yeah, so yeah, so like they were still a recruit school or they they went to some abbreviated school
[56:31] That the way the state does it. They have two blisters. They have a basic one and a basic two to help you out
[56:37] Years ago the basic one was used to be like 150 hours and they restubed it down to 110 hours or the training and then
[56:46] a basic two, which used to be like a career,
[56:50] that was 400 hours, then they did reduce it down to 300 hours.
[56:54] So currently I believe we only had maybe two
[56:58] or three individuals that had over 300 hours of work
[57:01] to train everybody else was at that heart mark
[57:04] if that, when you think about what a police officer
[57:08] and I'm not trying to create apples and oranges,
[57:11] there's a lot of training that goes into this
[57:14] And they're coming out, you know, for 100 hours certification, a basic one, and that's
[57:19] our candidate pool if we're lucky to achieve and to attract right now is the basic one
[57:25] certification.
[57:26] My background obviously, you know this is police department, and I know the model has been
[57:31] we want to hire the most experienced people we can, and so we try and, you know, compensate
[57:35] for that, right?
[57:36] I understand if we're not getting the experience applicants, then we should do something.
[57:45] I agree.
[57:46] Jamie, this spreadsheet, we took it off the fit, but the spreadsheet itself,
[57:51] there's another area to it that shows like all those basic one,
[57:55] basic two, every certification in a Xbox is for me.
[57:59] And it was scary to think that most of the people on this list that we hired,
[58:03] we were going to have to get them to make the decision to stay competitive than I think we need to look in other places that cut them.
[58:20] I don't like the idea of incurring $309,000 a year additionally without looking somewhere else to cut.
[58:31] I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, Mr. Thielin, but that's what I heard you say.
[58:34] I'm not saying cut, right, necessarily, when I'm saying it is finding other sources for those funds.
[58:42] And in the past, these contracts have been kind of one side.
[58:46] And thanks to you guys, we brought that back to where we're not losing them.
[58:51] And I just want to make sure that going forward, there's no other opportunities we can give to maybe help us out.
[58:58] So here's the concern, here's the concern that the chief and I have.
[59:02] If I'm Crusty Hills, and you are in Edgewood is running their ambulance service and their
[59:08] fire.
[59:08] The people that have one to three years of experience and Fort Mitchell is hiring the people that we
[59:15] have that have three years of experience or have more because they've been able to build
[59:20] that experience level then Crusty Hills is saying, wait a minute, why are we paying you
[59:26] when you don't have the experience and they have the experience so we've kind
[59:31] of backed off of that summit until we could build that group and then we can go
[59:34] back and say hey we have a strong group we were providing the service we
[59:39] should be providing at the level that our employees should be staffed at and I
[59:44] think you know I just mentioned again this sounds like a lot like close
[59:47] doors you know places like Florence the airport they're the Yankees and the
[1:00:01] The other thing is, you know, we talk about normally it's very hard for us to ever be competitive
[1:00:06] with Florence, Heber and Newport. I mean, chief and I tell you all the time, we're not going to compete
[1:00:12] with COVID-19, let's get out of that. We're not getting candidates from Taylor Mill,
[1:00:17] Independents, Wilder, Alexandria, right? We're not getting them from places that we should be
[1:00:23] getting candidates from, and we're losing candidates now to four Mitchell, two other ones,
[1:00:28] right? So the places that we want to compete with and we want to see candidates from, we're
[1:00:33] not getting those candidates and we're losing those candidates. We're not even worried about today.
[1:00:38] The forages and the covington are going to take them when they have it all because they have
[1:00:42] run volumes, huge big departments opportunities, but the small departments like us and all the others
[1:00:49] in the area are just trying to get standard to where they can say hey if we can prove that we have a
[1:00:54] a great culture and a good place to work
[1:00:56] or providing good benefits, you want to stay.
[1:00:59] And both candidates that I recently just spoke to
[1:01:03] to try to give them the, hey, encouragement,
[1:01:06] recruitment, you need to stay here.
[1:01:07] They said, we love it here.
[1:01:09] We want to stay here.
[1:01:10] We don't want to leave.
[1:01:12] But I can go over there and get paid the same
[1:01:14] and I get 400 something hours off.
[1:01:17] My family's telling me why would I not do that, right?
[1:01:21] So we had ones that said, I'll trust
[1:01:23] and I'll stay here to see if we can do it.
[1:01:25] And one just said, I can't take that chance.
[1:01:29] Fair enough?
[1:01:29] Yeah.
[1:01:30] And so, and I don't think we have to cut anywhere in the budget.
[1:01:35] We have to, we've gone past all of those big construction projects
[1:01:38] that we're going to do.
[1:01:40] We may just not have that additional 400 if we want to do some other big projects
[1:01:44] on time, but we are going to start building back to the general fund
[1:01:47] because we've got over all of the big huge construction projects
[1:01:52] that we're going to do on roads and we're going to see it now go back and start
[1:01:56] growing again to a level that council can make decisions financially if they
[1:02:01] believe we have accumulated too much in the general fund or if there's
[1:02:05] another project you want to do. So I don't believe that we're going to have to make
[1:02:08] any cuts whatsoever to it. That Dudley road, that placeholder for Dudley Road was a big
[1:02:16] and we've now accomplished that and we're done with that.
[1:02:24] So, would you be a motion or do you see that?
[1:02:27] Yes, I think we would.
[1:02:28] Of course.
[1:02:29] No, I basically just go ahead and we can just take a head count
[1:02:33] from a sample who would be interested
[1:02:34] for give time to the approval,
[1:02:36] so we can put it in the budget.
[1:02:37] And if you could make a motion to the motion,
[1:02:40] I think so.
[1:02:41] Right, if we could prove that the fire chief's proposal.
[1:02:45] I'll second it.
[1:02:46] I
[1:02:49] also would just add that it's for a 48 hour work week transitioning from a 56 hour
[1:02:54] work week down to a 48 hour work day.
[1:02:56] Next doctor.
[1:02:57] I think at the end it kind of it has the language of the recommendation and we'll go
[1:03:01] with that.
[1:03:02] It's the transition from a 56 and just so you know out of transparency.
[1:03:07] It's an average of 56 hours so they go 48, 48, 72 and now they'll go 48, 48, 48, 48.
[1:03:17] It will be a set for you in our work.
[1:03:20] Correct.
[1:03:20] She's correct.
[1:03:21] OK, so just out of transparency, that's how they get to the 56
[1:03:25] because they have a 72 hour work week here.
[1:03:29] Call the roll.
[1:03:31] Yes, please.
[1:03:31] Any further discussion?
[1:03:32] If not, let us call the roll, please.
[1:03:34] Mr. Schreiber?
[1:03:35] Yes.
[1:03:36] Mrs. Spears?
[1:03:36] Yes.
[1:03:37] Mr. Barledges?
[1:03:38] Yes.
[1:03:38] Mr. Messmer?
[1:03:39] Yes.
[1:03:40] Mr. Rule?
[1:03:41] No.
[1:03:42] Dr. Spilly?
[1:03:44] Yes.
[1:03:44] With the accompanying budget amendment.
[1:03:47] Mr. Thielin?
[1:03:48] Yes.
[1:03:54] We'll add it to the budget. I appreciate your consideration. Thank you very much, Tom.
[1:03:59] And I guess thank you very much, Consul. Consul from Snowborne.
[1:04:07] We certainly now have some more ammunition that we can go after and make sure that we have the
[1:04:13] evidence and everything running on time.
[1:04:17] So when will this take effect and how you staff it until then?
[1:04:25] So, I would work with Mr. Deener and coming up with, as he works with the budget proposal,
[1:04:32] the numbers we were kind of just, and this is just a basic outline, showed in there for
[1:04:37] like maybe in a goal or a timeline set of November 1st, it's going to give us an opportunity
[1:04:42] to advertise for those positions to bring those individuals in.
[1:04:46] And then we can maybe set to where we actually kick it in, in fact, around November timeline.
[1:04:51] But that's kind of what the numbers we were using with a, you know, a November timeline right now.
[1:04:57] Yeah, we have one opening now that we have to fill.
[1:05:00] Correct.
[1:05:01] Yes, I do.
[1:05:02] Well, the strategy we'll take is we'll probably put an advertisement out for that particular,
[1:05:08] not that particular position, a firefighter medic will list the benefits that we have.
[1:05:13] And one of the top benefits that everyone lists now is the fact that they have a 48 hour work week at the head.
[1:05:18] That's one of the top and that sparks a lot of people's interest now to kind of go
[1:05:23] So we'll advertise that position out of those
[1:05:27] Candidates that we get our hope is is there's three additional that are sitting in there that as we work through this
[1:05:33] We can go ahead and start interviewing them and have them in place and possibly you know a lot of times now
[1:05:39] Firefighter medical have to give 30 days because they may have some shifts to fill still
[1:05:44] they may have some trades that they have to take and they would like to be 30.
[1:05:48] So if we're in October offering positions and stuff, it could be November, December before we get all the way to where we have.
[1:05:56] There's a few internal things that we have to deal with.
[1:06:00] So the shift that the three that are coming in to help get us to the 48 hour work week, they have a different day run.
[1:06:09] So they're always going to be on Monday or Thursday.
[1:06:12] day. So that's kind of a preferred shift if you can get it. We, the chief and the assistant chief
[1:06:19] got to figure out what the internal policy will be if those are internal candidates can go to
[1:06:24] that shift or not. So we've got to work through some of those and figure out how I got to get to people.
[1:06:29] Can we remember six months apart, say next June, do some sort of an assessment of the
[1:06:37] higher ease, where we are at, like in the status of beginner, middle, higher up?
[1:06:42] Absolutely.
[1:06:42] You can update.
[1:06:44] I can update that, and certainly, and I try to keep all counsel praised of the situations
[1:06:51] under the monthly report when we do have those individuals that may be resigned things like
[1:06:56] that.
[1:06:57] But I can certainly, you know, I'll keep you in praise of our current status of our employees,
[1:07:02] and there's members, I'll do that in the yearly but annual report as well to track
[1:07:09] that information as well. I just think like six months prior from the
[1:07:14] November day would give us a good tracking and assessment of how it worked.
[1:07:19] Sure. I can do that. Thank you. I think we'll see that in a recruit. If it works,
[1:07:24] it's going to work. We're going to say employees. Yeah.
[1:07:36] We talked about that today, we wish that is there any thought that if we if council agrees to the recommendation
[1:07:45] One of the candidates we lost there any thought that maybe they would come back but we did not make cut and don't make come in whether they were wrong
[1:07:52] But we talked about that once the possibility of getting some of those
[1:07:58] Our biggest hope is, is the ones that we have now, just so we don't move.
[1:08:03] We keep on.
[1:08:06] The individuals that we hire, they're going to be really great firefighter, eventually medics,
[1:08:12] because they're moving toward that.
[1:08:14] They're just fresh in terms and they come out and they just need it.
[1:08:17] So our hope and Tom's really hoping that in two or three years they don't go,
[1:08:23] So hey, thank you for getting me a medic and giving my experience.
[1:08:25] Now I'm going to go to work somewhere else.
[1:08:27] So our hope is that.
[1:08:29] So we hope to do that.
[1:08:30] And the ones you're hiring are top notch people, which
[1:08:33] should keep you.
[1:08:35] I guess it's a good sign, too, that the staff that you bring
[1:08:39] on to your department, you train up,
[1:08:40] they become great candidates for someplace else.
[1:08:43] But we just like to retain them here for our community.
[1:08:46] Bridget, yes, I'm out the cost of when we get someone to train.
[1:08:50] The other kind of a hidden non-financial cost
[1:08:54] that we have is when we have turnover like that in each shift, they don't get to do advanced
[1:09:00] training because once those people are coming into their shifts, they got to kind of drop back
[1:09:04] again and retrain and get it going. So the staff that's here that's been here for that we're
[1:09:10] kind of are keeping around, they're frustrated in fact that every time we think we get somewhere,
[1:09:14] now we got to drop back and retrain and do it, we don't get to move on to those next steps. So
[1:09:20] So there's kind of a cost that's happening in the department of frustration and why we keep
[1:09:26] having this turnover, our shift, they get pretty close on the shift and then they have
[1:09:32] turned over and they're like, hey, we're right back to the beginning.
[1:09:34] If you're a captain, you're like, golly, yeah, I'm right back to two new people that I've
[1:09:39] got to train again and get them up to the level that we need for our shift.
[1:09:44] So there is a cost that I'm hoping we're not going to see financially, but long-term
[1:09:49] We see some of our staff go, and it's a lot better now because we're keeping people here and we're able to move and get ahead of the game and for training.
[1:10:01] Thanks again. Thanks again.
[1:10:02] This is complicated. Thanks, Tom. Thanks, Chief.
[1:10:04] Appreciate it.
[1:10:06] Just a FYI from standpoint of September the 7th meeting is canceled basically because of the city ordinance due to the Labor Day federal holiday.
[1:10:17] so don't everybody come over here on the seventh but we're just to notify
[1:10:21] everybody that we will be closed and we will be on no council meeting on the
[1:10:27] seventh of September. We do have an ordinance tonight's on the books we have
[1:10:32] an ordinance 2026.08-06 which is the fiscal year 2026 to 2027 it's the
[1:10:46] somebody has gotten the memo?
[1:10:49] Yes, so...
[1:10:51] Kind of correct me.
[1:10:53] Our current tax rate is 1-8-5.
[1:10:56] Correct.
[1:10:57] The tax rate being proposed in the ordinance is 1-8-2,
[1:11:00] so it's dropping.
[1:11:02] That is the compensating rate, which means we will generate
[1:11:07] the same revenue that we had projected for this year
[1:11:11] plus new construction we get.
[1:11:13] so it goes up somewhat the revenue source will but that's what the
[1:11:20] projection is and the rate will drop from 1 8 5 to 1 8 2. Council has the
[1:11:25] ability to insert whatever rate they would wish to insert if it goes over 4% it
[1:11:30] is subject to a voter recall so keep that in mind and you are welcome to do any
[1:11:37] rate that you want. The ordinance that is put together, Frank can scratch that out and put a new
[1:11:45] rate in but we have the compensating rate which we think is fair and equitable. And within the budget
[1:11:50] that we put together for the fiscal year, we kind of projected that number with the thought that
[1:11:55] you approved it with me telling you that I would not be coming and saying that we needed to increase
[1:12:00] any taxes fees or any other charges and we are still staying with that. So from the individual
[1:12:06] standpoint from the Householder's standpoint, it was they were paying 1-8-5, and we're
[1:12:12] not telling them they will pay 1-8-2, so they will be paying less. The city will be
[1:12:17] retaining the same money coming in. Under the premise that last year their
[1:12:22] house was worth some amount, and this year their house was worth identically the
[1:12:26] same, right? So if they had a $500,000 home last year, they were paying 1-8-5. If
[1:12:35] They have a $500,000 house this year.
[1:12:37] They're going to pay $1,82.
[1:12:38] And then we'll go down some portion,
[1:12:41] but it will not go forward.
[1:12:42] And all that I do want to say that this year,
[1:12:46] the trash collection fee won't change,
[1:12:48] but it will next year.
[1:12:50] So even though our rate drops,
[1:12:53] sometimes the build of the drop because rump key prices
[1:12:57] are going up.
[1:12:58] So from a due diligence to the residents of Edgwood,
[1:13:02] why wouldn't we keep it at $1,85?
[1:13:04] they would be paying the same.
[1:13:08] That's your option.
[1:13:09] Out of transparency, don't we, too?
[1:13:12] No, we've got, we're going to fire fighters.
[1:13:18] Council have the ability to do that if they would like to do it.
[1:13:21] I'm telling you, putting the budget together,
[1:13:23] I think that you're financially sound, but that rate,
[1:13:26] and we'll have money left over at the end of the fiscal year,
[1:13:30] which we need sometimes to be able to do other projects
[1:13:33] or maintenance and stuff like that on our assets.
[1:13:37] So your 185 is a good one.
[1:13:41] I know I'm gonna maybe not this year,
[1:13:45] but one council member says,
[1:13:47] hey, why don't we make it a 2% raise each year?
[1:13:49] Just they all said inflation and tried to keep up with it.
[1:13:51] So we don't end up in a financial situation.
[1:13:54] But I honestly would tell you, I think that like,
[1:13:57] hey, you financially need to do something more
[1:14:00] than the rate that we're having.
[1:14:01] But you are welcome to do whatever rate you would wish or whatever you think would you have heard if you think it's
[1:14:09] I would like to see the property owners
[1:14:12] Get something back you know
[1:14:14] I always felt all along you know for bringing in enough money that this is the rate that we reduce
[1:14:19] Because we're bringing in enough money from payroll tax
[1:14:23] And on a side note I don't know if anybody knows is a lot of the cities have raised their payroll tax
[1:14:32] We're at 1% there are still cities at 1%, but a lot of them gone up, but 1.25, 1.5, and
[1:14:40] else there's a 1.75.
[1:14:42] So there's other avenues that we don't have to ask our property owners for more money.
[1:14:49] Go and don't ask him to pay more.
[1:14:51] Well, if you had the PVA come through and assess your home, you will pay more.
[1:15:01] But that was done last year. Yeah.
[1:15:05] There's other reasons why your your home will be evaluated or re-evaluated by PVA. There's other instances. And so you could technically be paying more if your house is re-evaluated.
[1:15:20] Right. If you kind of highlights yourself by an addition. Yeah. So this
[1:15:33] is a reading, right? This reading or reading? No, actually.
[1:15:36] And it will be the second meeting in September when the second meeting is asked, and that will take a motion to the read and then action to pass it.
[1:15:49] So just to sort of round this out, since Jeff, you raised the specter of payroll tax disparity between Edgewood and other cities, can we get a list of payroll tax from other cities?
[1:16:07] I think the only one in King County lower than us would be Fort Wright and they're like
[1:16:12] .99.
[1:16:13] Yeah.
[1:16:14] They did that all purpose to be lower than that.
[1:16:18] But I believe it's the area of the lowest,
[1:16:23] there's one, yeah, but I'm saying, the lower
[1:16:27] was one I think in King County is .99 and maybe the highest is there's maybe two point
[1:16:33] something and with us being the number one city in the state yeah well actually
[1:16:38] can I ask for other cities who don't have school taxes other cities around
[1:16:44] this that are just can county because for Mitchell might have a different payroll
[1:16:49] tax but they also have a school tax do they also have a road tax okay so I wanted
[1:16:53] to get as much life as the city has a school tax the school boards past taxes
[1:16:58] Some of them have a school tax.
[1:17:00] Okay.
[1:17:01] I guess the city of Port Mitchell collects the tax.
[1:17:04] They just collect the tax.
[1:17:06] But the board, the school board sets that rate,
[1:17:09] but the board of Mitchell does not set it
[1:17:11] or for Thomas or anybody.
[1:17:13] Those are all set by the school board.
[1:17:17] I guess in the game, from a resident standpoint,
[1:17:19] what taxes would I be paying if I were in these cities?
[1:17:23] Which cities got to be two or three of them
[1:17:25] that are more like Edgewood than others?
[1:17:26] was the cheapest place to live in.
[1:17:28] There were the cheapest, and that's why we came.
[1:17:30] The number one city in the state of Kentucky for
[1:17:32] $2,026, but yes, the recognition.
[1:17:36] We, I have an older one, and we can update one something.
[1:17:39] Usually what happens is once all the city's kind of past
[1:17:41] their rates, we send out a spreadsheet and say,
[1:17:44] hey, can everybody put your rate in so we can keep it.
[1:17:47] And we'll see like, Ellsmear, Bill Hills has a road tax,
[1:17:52] other communities might have a park tax,
[1:17:55] all of that kind of stuff, interim tax. We don't have an interim premium and maybe
[1:18:00] only two other communities don't have an interim premium. So everybody kind of
[1:18:03] structured it a little bit different. Richard, I couldn't scan the tax form and
[1:18:07] send it to you. Okay. Yeah. On the payroll. Yeah. On activation. Yeah, it list is on
[1:18:12] all the octaves. And you can find it on the county website. The more important basis
[1:18:18] is if there's a FIKI cap or not. This is not necessarily the rate. So Fort Wright
[1:18:22] is lower and they have a peak account.
[1:18:24] Yeah, so you need to like your property tax.
[1:18:30] You might be at 182, but there might be a community that has a .30, right?
[1:18:35] But their house values are a third of the house values here, so some of them might pay way
[1:18:40] less on their home there than they do here because of the value.
[1:18:43] So all the rates are weird and it's hard to compare to go, oh, your rate is 182.
[1:18:48] it's like, yeah, but all of our houses are worth the way more than all the houses over there.
[1:18:51] So when they're trying to generate revenue, the rate has to be a little bit higher.
[1:18:55] On occupational, you may have a lower rate or a higher rate, depending on what the makeup is,
[1:19:05] the labor market in your community rate, and you're trying to generate a different rate.
[1:19:10] So if you're coming in, it's extremely high because they have a different makeup of the
[1:19:14] labor rate trying to make up just the same number that we might get to, right?
[1:19:19] So it makes it very difficult to compare it, but we can get it to you and you can do that
[1:19:22] comparison.
[1:19:24] You know?
[1:19:25] The staff went on to defend it.
[1:19:26] Right.
[1:19:30] Well, no further discussion.
[1:19:32] How long?
[1:19:33] Mr. Richmond, to go ahead and read.
[1:19:35] Yes, sir.
[1:19:36] It's an ordinance of the City of Edgwood.
[1:19:38] In Kenton County, Kentucky, providing for the assessment of all real estate and personal
[1:19:43] property within the corporate limits of the city of Edgwood, which is subject to taxation
[1:19:48] thereby for the fiscal year of the beginning on July 1, 2026, ending on June 30, 2027 at
[1:19:57] the rate of 0.182 dollars for each $100 of the valuation that are of so assessed, providing
[1:20:05] for the payment collection of such taxes, penalties and interest that are on, and describing
[1:20:10] the purpose for such taxes so collected shall be appropriated and used. By
[1:20:16] summary of the ordinance adopts the PVA valuation of property in the city
[1:20:22] of Edgwood. Love these taxes on real property at 0.182 dollars per hundred
[1:20:28] and an advolume tax on personal property at the rate of 0.149 dollars for
[1:20:36] Each $100 of the value that are so assessed provides for the procedure for the collection
[1:20:43] through the county clerk's office and the city clerk's office provided that the taxes
[1:20:51] levied are doing payable on December 31st
[1:20:57] and that the levy shall be subject to a discount
[1:21:01] of 2% if they'd be forward to our 30 if they come to link one on December 30th 31st and
[1:21:10] if should we add in there to a penalty at 10% plus interest at 3 to 12% ordinance further
[1:21:23] provides that to secure the payment of the taxes the city has a lien on the real estate
[1:21:28] personal property provides that the use of the taxes shall be for the general
[1:21:36] operating expenses of the state and
[1:21:44] shall be effective as
[1:21:52] soon as possible
[1:21:53] according to law.
[1:21:56] First reading. First reading no action needs to be taken on
[1:21:59] this. The second reading is what the action needs to be taken if you want to do a
[1:22:03] reconsideration on the tax rate but at this time the tax rate is being lowered and
[1:22:08] and everybody should be.
[1:22:11] And good news to hear that as well.
[1:22:14] With that, we do have some announcements tonight
[1:22:16] and Tuesday nights, summer concerts.
[1:22:18] Sirius wraps up tomorrow night with the closures.
[1:22:22] Oh, yes.
[1:22:24] Lucas, thank you very much.
[1:22:26] We'll get that on the camera as well.
[1:22:28] Make sure that the TV and K, thank you.
[1:22:30] It gets from the standpoint of the closures at 7 p.m.
[1:22:35] tomorrow evening and tomorrow is supposed to be a nice nice day. I'm sorry we
[1:22:39] had a couple rain outs there we have but at the same time this Tuesday is
[1:22:44] supposed to be a nice school or in a moderate evening so look forward to seeing
[1:22:48] everybody tomorrow night with the closures and that's at 7 p.m. This fall chair
[1:22:54] yoga starts September the 2nd and that's 11 in the morning till noon at the
[1:22:59] Liberty Hall. Sign up today and the spaces are limited from the standpoint
[1:23:04] point. There is always a weeding list on the Cherioga from the standpoint and it's
[1:23:09] a great, but it starts September the 2nd, 11 in the morning till noon. And then last
[1:23:15] but not least is we've got the touch of truck in October the 3rd from noon to 2 p.m.
[1:23:21] free and park and that's because of the fire prevention kickoff with a fire department
[1:23:27] and we'll have all our vehicles down there as well and we'll be down there to introduce
[1:23:31] themselves to the people as they come on touch the track October the 3rd. With that I would
[1:23:38] entertain the motion to adjourn. I'll make a motion to adjourn. Second.
[1:23:44] Who was on my left here?
[1:23:46] That was me. Dr. Strillian and Joe. All right. All in favor. All in favor. All in favor.
[1:23:53] Good night, thanks for coming.