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Let's go ahead and start the meeting, change that for whatever,

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and I would like to call the meeting to order. And there are a few items that

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we need to, uh, uh, discuss.

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let's do, yeah. Uh, the first items are the, uh,

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uh, on the general consent item, uh, number, number two. These

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items are listed under general consent, are usually approved as a group with the proper

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motion from a member of the planning commission. Members of the planning commission may

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pull any item under the general consent for separate discussion and

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or, uh, action. And the first item on this

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is a consideration of approval of the minutes

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from our, our previous planning commission meeting. Can I hear a motion?

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if you've, hopefully you've read those. I can hear you back here. Hear,

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hear. Is it on? Can you hear me now?

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okay. I'll put it right here. Is that okay? All right. Are there any,

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uh, corrections or deletions from the minutes that you can

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see? All right. If there's, uh, none. Can I hear a motion for the passing of

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the minutes? Motion? I'll second.

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thank you. Uh, the other two items on this, uh, consent agenda

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are two items that, um,

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will be, are there any, uh, members of the planning commission that want to pull any of these items

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you vote on that? Oh, sorry.

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thank you. I will need further instructions as we go along. Thank you.

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we got your back. Alright. Anyone from the

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planning commission want to pull any of these items to discuss them individually?

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if there's not, can I, uh, hear a motion to approve these two

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items? So moved.

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second. I second.

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all right. Those items will be heard at counsel on july 14th,

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all looking at the, uh, public hearing items. These are items listed

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under public hearings are usually discussed and considered individually by members

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of the planning commission. Each item provides an opportunity for members

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of the public to speak regarding the agenda item. Comments must

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be directed to the chair of the meeting. And, uh, we are

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gonna talk about four items today. Uh, one of them

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is, uh, number d, case number pr 2 4 2 7.

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that will be, um, uh, continued

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to july 22nd planning commission

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meeting. And I need a motion and a second to, uh, to move

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that to, uh, july 22nd. I

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continue second. Okay. Uh,

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and then an, I'm sorry.

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okay. Thank you, ken. Mm-hmm . All right. Uh, the

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next item, item c. We're gonna move that up in the, uh, agenda.

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and we're going to hear that one first. And, um,

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yeah, let's go ahead and do that. Uh, case number pa 2 5 0 0 0 1

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public hearing consideration for a cons comprehensive plan agreement to the edmond.

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plan, 2018 from rural neighborhood to suburban infill

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for the property located at 1421 east covel on the northwest corner

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of bryant and cove. Is the applicant present?

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is that okay? If you want to, um,

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can, if you could go ahead and present this item, please. Yes, sir. Thank you. Um,

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as you indicated, the applicant is requesting approval of a change to the city's comprehensive

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plan. The edmond plan 2018. From the rural neighborhood

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category to the suburban infill category to a site located on the northwest corner

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of covell and bryant, you can see it here on the map. The subject

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property is approximately 1.5 acres. The site is zoned a single family dwelling.

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nearby. Zoning includes a single family to the west, which is

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developed as a church south undeveloped. That's

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alright. Um, the size characterize categorizes suburban commercial

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in the edmund plan 2018. These are wrong. My apologies.

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uh, nearby plan categories include suburban commercial to the east,

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suburban two or s two neighborhood open space and suburban one s one neighborhood

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to the south, rural neighborhood to the north and west.

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uh, the potential availability of public water and sewer support a wider variety of plain categories,

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including suburban infill. This category is designed to provide

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items that might be missing or underrepresented in nearby developed areas such as

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additional housing types. The applicant's proposal can be considered appropriate based

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on the site size and in support of citywide goals related to housing variety.

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staff recommends approval. Happy to answer any questions commissioners may have. Okay.

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any questions from the commission to the city, city staff?

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alright. Uh, applicant, would you like to add anything to

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the summary? Greg

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massey with red plains professional. Um, I don't have anything to add.

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speak up. Yeah, I can hear you. Greg massey with red plains

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professionals. Uh, I don't have anything to add that mr. Bryant didn't

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already address. I'd be more than happy to answer any questions,

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um, that you or, um, any of the folks here have.

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okay. Any questions for the applicant from the commission? Okay.

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I don't see any. Um, thank you greg.

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uh, any comments from the public?

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anyone that would like to speak, ask any questions?

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we, we have a couple people coming from overflow and then some hands up right there. Okay.

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are you coming in to speak or observe? Okay. Alright,

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come on up and, uh, state your name and address. Uh, dave

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me's at 3 0 0 8 short drive. It's, uh, oh

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three blocks or four blocks to the west of this location.

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uh, you know, we're just small, uh, rural

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property and we're extremely worried about our property values

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and, and how it's also gonna change the flow of traffic

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and which is, that's a very congested yes. Intersection as it is.

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do we know, does he know? I did. We didn't get to hear what he had, what the applicant had to say because

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we were in the overflow. We were flow room, so we were okay. He just said if you had any questions. So he

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really didn't talk about it at all except for the, uh, uh, the summary that,

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uh, mr. Brian gave. Yeah. And part of the reason we've been there at that

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location for over 20 years and when before we moved,

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we looked and there was no, you know, multi-family.

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that was one of the things that we looked for when we bought our property.

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and so I know it's a major consideration for lots of people in the area around

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there. I appreciate y'all hearing me. And do you have anything else?

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does he, do we know what, uh, if you could just speak up to the, uh, microphone so you

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know, what, what he plans. Does the applicant know what he plans to develop

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there? Do we know that? Yeah, it should be in your packet about what it's gonna be, but I can ask,

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I can have him, uh, uh, respond to that. Okay. I appreciate

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it. I did, we didn't have a packet, so I didn't know. Okay. Yeah. Things were kind

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of chaotic over there. Yeah, . Okay. Uh, we'll just find a comfortable place to

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stand and, uh, mr. Massey will come up and, and, um,

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uh, give his spiel. Thank you. Thank you. Alright. I think we

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had somebody else in this. Oh, is there another person that yep. Yes, please come up.

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good evening. I'm john bracken. I live at 1316 nay

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avenue, which is in the burnham woods edition, which is directly across the street from the

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subject property. Um, we settled there, uh, several years ago

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because of the rural nature of that, the trees. And, um,

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we understand that area's developed, and for those of you that have driven down cove

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lately, it took me 10 minutes to get out of our neighborhood because of the traffic.

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and, um, to add, uh, uh, density of living

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to me is, it doesn't make any sense until I know the plan is to widen cove.

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and perhaps when that happens, we'll have a better, uh, way to get in and out of our neighborhood.

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but, so we're, we're concerned about that. Um, I guess I would ask, um,

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I haven't, we haven't studied where we know where the plot is, but one of my

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questions is where, where will the entrances be? Will there be one on bryant

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and one on covel? Uh, it wasn't clear.

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that intersection is just a nightmare. I if you guys haven't been there lately, especially around

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five o'clock and this is only gonna make it worse.

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anybody know the answer to that? Okay. I'll write that down. Okay.

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um, and we also would be concerned about property values. I'm sure these will be rentals.

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um, we already have rentals in our neighborhood. Um, it wasn't built to be

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that way, but it's turned into that and, and we all are concerned about our property values 'cause that

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is a very desirable place to live in edmond. That's why we settled there.

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alright, thank you. Oh, let me also just say trent, I'm on

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the, uh, board of the hoa, I'm president of the board of hoa. Trent

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is vice president. Um, we also have our secretary, nancy's here and

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marsha is one of our residents who's been involved with us, so, okay. We

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have four of us here. Okay, thank you. There's 95. Okay.

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if you could state your name and address please. Uh, trent cornman. I live at 1300 lemon ranch road

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in burnham woods. Uh, there's 95

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residential units in our neighborhood and we've got a real nice

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quiet neighborhood. We have a real strong hoa

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and, um, most of the people in there are retired older people like me.

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um, it's a real nightmare getting

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out of our addition onto cove.

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um, I just, I know something bad's gonna happen there

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one of these days. Um, if

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at the very least you can do is to cut down the number of units on this

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piece of property. Uh, 15, 15

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residential units on an acre and a half is obscene

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in my thinking. Oh, okay. No, no, I'm sorry. But,

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uh, please, no comments after each. Let's just keep this civil please. But

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I mean, it is going to create a nightmare for traffic in that area and

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it, it already is. We've got cars racing up and down,

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uh, bryant all hours of the

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day and night. Um, and I mean, these people are really tearing

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up the street up and down the north street cove. They race

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up and down cove. Um,

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that's about all I've got to say except, you know, at least consider the

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density and the number of units on that if you would please.

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alright, thank you. And you don't know which way we're going to get

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egress and ingress or whatever. We don't have that yet.

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uh, no. That comes with the, uh, site plan. When do

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we get, when do we, do we get to look at the plat? Do we get

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to look at something that's gonna go on that property? Uh, or does this thing

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just whistle on through and we don't, we don't get to comment

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on it. This is, this is kind of the first step of that process. We'll talk a little bit about that as I'll, I'll note that

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question as well. Okay. That's all I've got. Thank you.

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okay, thanks.

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okay. Alright. Dan, I just saw something on the

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report that, uh, was prepared by the city. One of the changes motivated

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this, uh, change, uh, was that, uh, water and sew had been

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added to the area. How close and how, uh, how significant

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is that? I don't remember anything in particular on that. And

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uh, maybe staff can answer that for us. Thank you.

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okay. Any other resident or citizen

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like to speak? Alright, would the applicant like to,

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uh, oh, one more. I'm sorry.

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my name's dennis shannon. I live at the corner of missile toe in

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covell, about a quarter mile from this property.

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everybody on my side of the road

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from there to the corner has two and a half to five acres.

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and I'd like to echo what people have said about the traffic

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already getting out onto covell,

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which is just two lanes means,

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and on either end of it to the east and west, you've got four

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lanes of traffic coming down and all of a sudden for the, for

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the mile between coltrane

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and boulevard, you've got just one lane

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and each direction and it is a nightmare. I'd also like to

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echo the part about people racing up and down

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the roads. And until you hear a number of people say this,

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it doesn't, if you just have one person saying it, you say, okay, one person,

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we don't care. There's a lot of people that would like this to say

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we don't want it, and I'm one of them. Thank you. Okay, thank you.

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who else did I miss?

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alright, now it's your turn. Okay. Quite a

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few items. Um, of course one of the ones is,

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uh, is the traffic seems to be the, uh, the biggest question here is, is

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how is your project going to affect traffic?

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I know that there, well, you can answer that. Uh, also, what,

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uh, what are your total projects? I know that it's, it's included in there about the, uh, living units.

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if you could also talk about the ingress and egress and, um,

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how you foresee the project in fitting in with

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the surrounding areas. And,

201
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and maybe, uh, kim can address the process after this is,

202
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uh, if, if this item is approved and if you could also,

203
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uh, respond to the water and sewer, uh, location, where it is,

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what the progress is. You didn't write any of that down, so, oh,

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okay. I forgot to bring a pen in with me and I apologize. Uh,

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but I'll try and address all of those items as best I can. If I

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leave any out, please bring 'em to my attention and I will take care

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of that. Um,

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mr. Hutchinson has lived in the area, uh, for a

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number of years himself. Um, he lives within a quarter mile

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of this property. Um, I think his son currently

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occupies this, this property. Um,

213
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based on the current zoning of the property,

214
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um, this tract and everything around it could be zoned a single

215
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or could be developed as a single family, which would,

216
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um, increased traffic. With this proposed development, we're

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limiting it to a maximum of 16 units.

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there will be a single point of access on cove

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additional. Okay. Just a minute. Okay.

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um, if you continue to make comments, we'll have to ask you to leave. Let's just, uh,

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just keep this, you know, that, that we just listened to everything

222
00:17:09,925 --> 00:17:13,785
he has to say. Thank you. The single access on covell

223
00:17:14,305 --> 00:17:17,805
is based on the topography of this property.

224
00:17:18,345 --> 00:17:21,845
um, there's no reasonable access that could be taken,

225
00:17:23,105 --> 00:17:27,005
um, to the east on bryant. Um, however,

226
00:17:27,575 --> 00:17:31,435
there will be additional right of way granted on this two acre

227
00:17:31,725 --> 00:17:35,685
track for the widening of coval and also the widening of

228
00:17:35,785 --> 00:17:38,585
bryant through that intersection. Um,

229
00:17:40,225 --> 00:17:43,415
we have no way of dealing with current traffic situations,

230
00:17:45,145 --> 00:17:47,975
um, but with 16 units,

231
00:17:49,395 --> 00:17:52,745
that is not a great impact. Um,

232
00:17:54,105 --> 00:17:57,895
as far as the utilities, public water and sewer

233
00:17:58,435 --> 00:18:02,195
will be extended to this facility currently. Public water ends,

234
00:18:03,105 --> 00:18:06,635
uh, at the northeast corner of the burnham woods subdivision

235
00:18:07,795 --> 00:18:11,405
that will be extended into this property and also provide

236
00:18:11,945 --> 00:18:15,905
access for adjacent residents to extend and

237
00:18:16,225 --> 00:18:20,125
tie into that public utility. Sanitary sewer is located

238
00:18:20,565 --> 00:18:23,915
approximately, um, a quarter mile to the east

239
00:18:24,665 --> 00:18:28,665
on cove that will be extended over to this property. And

240
00:18:28,885 --> 00:18:32,075
again, we'll also, uh, allow adjacent residence,

241
00:18:33,265 --> 00:18:37,005
uh, to the northwest to tie in to that facility as well.

242
00:18:38,345 --> 00:18:38,345
um,

243
00:18:43,345 --> 00:18:47,205
uh, I I'm sorry, what were the other items? Oh, yeah, only one more item. Pretty

244
00:18:47,565 --> 00:18:51,145
good. Uh, how will this, what material are you gonna use?

245
00:18:51,655 --> 00:18:54,525
how's it gonna fit into the, uh, uh, surrounding rural,

246
00:18:55,785 --> 00:18:59,745
uh, feel of the area? Yeah. Well, the intent is to

247
00:18:59,965 --> 00:19:03,185
provide more diversity of housing. Um,

248
00:19:04,795 --> 00:19:08,085
when we planted burnham woods, we went through the same situation.

249
00:19:08,985 --> 00:19:12,785
um, you know, a single family residential, uh,

250
00:19:13,955 --> 00:19:17,085
smaller lots going into an area that was primarily,

251
00:19:18,145 --> 00:19:21,105
um, larger acreages. Um,

252
00:19:22,775 --> 00:19:26,495
again, traffic is an issue. It has always been an issue.

253
00:19:27,745 --> 00:19:31,535
um, you know, the individual developers can't

254
00:19:32,405 --> 00:19:36,325
mitigate that completely, but by providing the additional right of way,

255
00:19:37,065 --> 00:19:40,365
um, and providing the widening where it's required,

256
00:19:41,185 --> 00:19:44,885
we can at least mitigate through the frontage of that property.

257
00:19:45,905 --> 00:19:49,835
um, I I, I can't reduce the number of cars.

258
00:19:50,605 --> 00:19:54,565
I can't reduce the speed limits. Um, what we

259
00:19:54,725 --> 00:19:58,635
can do is make this a location that

260
00:19:58,925 --> 00:20:02,605
provides expansion of diverse housing in the city of

261
00:20:03,005 --> 00:20:06,865
edmond, particularly in this location of edmond, where there are

262
00:20:07,145 --> 00:20:10,845
not products like this, uh, with duplex and fourplex

263
00:20:11,405 --> 00:20:15,385
units that have been very popular in

264
00:20:15,625 --> 00:20:17,835
the, uh, edmond municipal area.

265
00:20:21,795 --> 00:20:25,665
okay. I think, uh, any of the fellow

266
00:20:26,085 --> 00:20:30,045
commissioners have any items that I forgot? No, I just have

267
00:20:30,365 --> 00:20:34,105
questions. Okay, go ahead. Um, okay. I'm a little concerned about the, um,

268
00:20:34,595 --> 00:20:38,565
16 units, let's say 32 cars where, I mean, where's the parking,

269
00:20:40,985 --> 00:20:44,895
the parking's within development? Um, obviously, um, these

270
00:20:45,245 --> 00:20:49,005
units will all have garages, driveway. Okay. They're gonna have garages because we haven't seen

271
00:20:49,445 --> 00:20:51,965
anything. Um, I mean any, christie,

272
00:20:53,515 --> 00:20:56,705
what, did you not include that preliminary layout?

273
00:20:59,485 --> 00:21:01,765
I, no, I think there were just the number of items.

274
00:21:05,435 --> 00:21:09,365
okay. Yeah. I just kind of hesitant to move forward with this.

275
00:21:09,705 --> 00:21:12,045
so we haven't seen what it's gonna look like.

276
00:21:13,835 --> 00:21:17,785
yeah. We have a preliminary layout that, um,

277
00:21:18,435 --> 00:21:22,125
that was provided to the city with the pud document,

278
00:21:22,505 --> 00:21:26,115
or excuse me, um, with this application

279
00:21:27,435 --> 00:21:31,355
that was to be included with the pud document, which would be the next step,

280
00:21:32,585 --> 00:21:36,315
um, for rezoning. Um, again, this

281
00:21:36,605 --> 00:21:40,565
is just to request plan amendment mm-hmm . So that

282
00:21:40,685 --> 00:21:44,685
we can then move forward with the rezoning following that preliminary platting,

283
00:21:45,245 --> 00:21:48,845
final platting. And then of course we would have to do site plan

284
00:21:49,365 --> 00:21:53,265
approval, um, based on the multifamily use. Is

285
00:21:53,485 --> 00:21:57,325
that correct mr. Bryan? It depends.

286
00:21:58,325 --> 00:22:02,165
. Um, okay, so you referenced the process, which is,

287
00:22:02,365 --> 00:22:05,555
uh, something I was gonna address. So yeah, the comprehensive plan establishes,

288
00:22:06,865 --> 00:22:10,645
um, you know, kind of the, the, the character and the intensity

289
00:22:11,105 --> 00:22:14,985
of the area. The, the change here is you, you, uh, you

290
00:22:15,485 --> 00:22:19,125
outlined the change in utility availability. So of course that wasn't available

291
00:22:19,675 --> 00:22:23,545
when the, the plan was initially, um, approved years ago.

292
00:22:24,385 --> 00:22:27,725
um, so the next step would be to come in and request

293
00:22:28,765 --> 00:22:32,485
a zoning map, amendment to a plan unit development that would,

294
00:22:32,795 --> 00:22:36,605
that is then when you would show your layout, talk about materials, those kinds

295
00:22:36,925 --> 00:22:40,905
of things. There's a public process of course related to that. Um,

296
00:22:41,225 --> 00:22:44,845
and then you reference platting and then it depends if the details,

297
00:22:45,795 --> 00:22:49,565
what details you provide in your pud or the platting, whether a site plan is

298
00:22:49,965 --> 00:22:53,965
required. But yes, all of those components are potentially next steps in this

299
00:22:54,435 --> 00:22:58,365
process and there's sequential. So, and I, I would also

300
00:22:58,675 --> 00:23:02,525
like to address, um, it was brought up about, um, bringing

301
00:23:02,715 --> 00:23:06,275
more rental units into the area. Um, obviously

302
00:23:07,025 --> 00:23:10,765
any house can be rented. Um, single family

303
00:23:11,275 --> 00:23:15,045
multifamily, regardless the intent if this

304
00:23:15,445 --> 00:23:19,365
is approved tonight, is to move forward with a pud that would allow these

305
00:23:19,565 --> 00:23:23,365
units to be sold individually as single family

306
00:23:23,795 --> 00:23:27,725
residence. Um, so we're, we're not

307
00:23:27,885 --> 00:23:31,605
looking solely for, uh, rental properties to be developed

308
00:23:32,125 --> 00:23:34,275
here. Okay.

309
00:23:36,505 --> 00:23:40,425
any other questions? Ken, could you clarify if

310
00:23:40,645 --> 00:23:44,645
it, if we approve tonight, how many other meetings you mentioned kinda the process, how many other

311
00:23:44,805 --> 00:23:48,645
public meetings will occur to where more feedback could be given

312
00:23:49,065 --> 00:23:51,945
before what he's describing gets built? Is that 2, 3, 4?

313
00:23:53,225 --> 00:23:55,805
uh, 'cause you mentioned it, but I just wanna make sure we're clear.

314
00:23:57,345 --> 00:24:01,045
yes, thank you for that. Um, well, there's one more public meeting on this item.

315
00:24:01,465 --> 00:24:05,465
so this will go to council planning commission is recommending body, um, for

316
00:24:05,685 --> 00:24:09,505
the rezoning that is also planning commission and city council, um,

317
00:24:09,985 --> 00:24:13,845
for preliminary plat. Um, that's, uh, planning commission has

318
00:24:14,005 --> 00:24:18,005
authority to approve that. And then c site plan, um, is planning

319
00:24:18,085 --> 00:24:22,015
commission as well. So I don't, I didn't count all that, but it's like six. Okay. Thank

320
00:24:22,365 --> 00:24:22,365
you.

321
00:24:28,455 --> 00:24:31,975
quick question, remind me what can go into suburban infill again?

322
00:24:33,585 --> 00:24:37,525
um, good question. So of course it's not necessarily about the

323
00:24:37,665 --> 00:24:41,425
use. Um, that's more about, um, an opportunity to,

324
00:24:42,145 --> 00:24:45,965
uh, provide a transition from one thing, you know, a near one nearby development to

325
00:24:46,165 --> 00:24:50,125
another one. Um, it, it's an opportunity to provide something that's missing

326
00:24:50,355 --> 00:24:54,355
from the area or the neighborhood. And, um, yeah,

327
00:24:54,645 --> 00:24:58,565
so it, it, whatever future development or

328
00:24:58,725 --> 00:25:02,125
use kind of meets those, um, that those concepts

329
00:25:03,065 --> 00:25:06,995
can potentially be a good fit for this plan category. Okay.

330
00:25:07,285 --> 00:25:11,205
so most likely it's gonna be more dense than it is today? Well, it only

331
00:25:11,365 --> 00:25:15,045
has one house on it right now, so yeah. So two would be more dense,

332
00:25:15,825 --> 00:25:17,605
so it could have, yeah. Okay.

333
00:25:20,795 --> 00:25:24,755
okay. Any other questions? Alright,

334
00:25:26,015 --> 00:25:27,605
thank you craig. Thank you.

335
00:25:30,105 --> 00:25:34,045
um, excuse, are we doing public comment a second? Oh yeah, I don't

336
00:25:34,245 --> 00:25:38,025
think so. Yeah, unfortunately that's, uh, we're just doing it. Uh,

337
00:25:38,255 --> 00:25:41,965
we're having given you one chance to, uh, to ask a question and one time to respond.

338
00:25:43,145 --> 00:25:47,065
so that map wasn't up here before so I couldn't the

339
00:25:47,285 --> 00:25:51,045
one that showed the units, so I couldn't ask the question about it.

340
00:25:52,455 --> 00:25:56,305
there wasn't one with the units on it. She

341
00:25:56,525 --> 00:25:59,285
found it. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. Comments? It's closed.

342
00:26:00,955 --> 00:26:04,745
good job. May I just ask? Yes, you may because I missed it. I'm

343
00:26:04,965 --> 00:26:04,965
sorry.

344
00:26:10,025 --> 00:26:13,785
now again, this is just a estimate. It's not approved, it's just, uh, his,

345
00:26:14,215 --> 00:26:18,045
their idea of what they would like to build there. I'm a retired teacher, so I believe

346
00:26:18,365 --> 00:26:22,345
in taking okay, go ahead and state your name and address please. My

347
00:26:22,565 --> 00:26:26,405
name is deborah shannon and we live about a quarter mile from this

348
00:26:26,845 --> 00:26:30,665
location off of coville on missile toll lane. And so

349
00:26:31,405 --> 00:26:35,255
I use this intersection all the time. And when he mentioned there

350
00:26:35,605 --> 00:26:39,145
was gonna be one entrance and exit on covell,

351
00:26:40,185 --> 00:26:44,125
as you can see where bryant is, if someone is coming out of there,

352
00:26:45,105 --> 00:26:49,075
they'd have to turn right . If they tried to make a left turn,

353
00:26:50,155 --> 00:26:54,045
they wouldn't be able to that, there's just no way you could do

354
00:26:54,205 --> 00:26:57,625
that. You'd be blocking traffic and everybody goes out

355
00:26:58,235 --> 00:27:02,205
cove to I 35 or to get to sooner or wherever. I mean

356
00:27:03,345 --> 00:27:07,285
we started living there in 91 before covell even

357
00:27:07,595 --> 00:27:11,525
connected to I 35. It stopped it sooner. So we've seen

358
00:27:12,225 --> 00:27:15,245
the change of it over, over the years. It's been massive

359
00:27:16,465 --> 00:27:19,965
and um, that's the direction from fire station

360
00:27:20,475 --> 00:27:24,445
five when they come over all of the sanitation, unless they're going down second

361
00:27:24,725 --> 00:27:28,685
street, they have to take vale to go across 35 to get to where they

362
00:27:28,925 --> 00:27:32,825
are. So this is such a high, high traffic area and

363
00:27:33,105 --> 00:27:37,045
for a lot of these things that are in the planning, I just

364
00:27:37,285 --> 00:27:41,065
feel like we need to do the streets first and

365
00:27:41,355 --> 00:27:44,835
then address something like this.

366
00:27:45,905 --> 00:27:49,435
um, you know, 16 units, 32 cars,

367
00:27:50,505 --> 00:27:54,445
people have visitors and family and everything else. I think this would be

368
00:27:54,805 --> 00:27:58,065
a very, very dangerous, um, and

369
00:28:00,125 --> 00:28:03,505
I like the idea of people being able to own a property. I really do,

370
00:28:04,465 --> 00:28:07,175
but I'm not crazy about this particular

371
00:28:08,475 --> 00:28:11,955
diagram with all of these. Fewer would be better. Okay.

372
00:28:12,505 --> 00:28:16,305
uh, thank you. And tonight we're just, uh, talking about the change of use,

373
00:28:16,855 --> 00:28:20,675
right? So not, not so much of this, we're not approving this, we're not talking about traffic,

374
00:28:21,785 --> 00:28:24,035
but thank you for your concerns. So thank you. Appreciate it. Okay.

375
00:28:28,075 --> 00:28:31,845
alright. Um, we ready to,

376
00:28:33,025 --> 00:28:36,965
can I hear a motion to um, approve? Uh, to approve,

377
00:28:37,225 --> 00:28:37,785
to approve. Second.

378
00:28:45,875 --> 00:28:49,805
alright, uh, uh, this vote failed and uh, but it

379
00:28:49,925 --> 00:28:53,545
will be continued. I mean it will be, uh, moved to,

380
00:28:54,705 --> 00:28:58,625
uh, counsel on july 14th and you'll have another I, uh,

381
00:28:58,845 --> 00:29:02,695
opportunity to, uh, to talk about that. Alright, thank

382
00:29:03,045 --> 00:29:06,725
you. And now, uh, let's move to item a.

383
00:29:08,075 --> 00:29:09,905
this is, uh, case number pr 20 0 0 0 2 7.

384
00:29:16,495 --> 00:29:20,135
we'll take a minute to, uh, let people leave.

385
00:29:22,945 --> 00:29:26,485
uh, this is a public hearing in consideration for revised preliminary

386
00:29:27,275 --> 00:29:31,075
plat for wild rose ranch located

387
00:29:31,565 --> 00:29:33,825
northwest of sorghum mill and bryant.

388
00:29:35,945 --> 00:29:39,285
ken, will you present this, please? Yes, sir. Thank you.

389
00:29:40,385 --> 00:29:44,205
the applicant is requesting approval of a preliminary plat. The approximately 63

390
00:29:45,115 --> 00:29:48,685
acre subject property is located on the south side of sorghum mill and west of coltrane.

391
00:29:49,205 --> 00:29:53,125
it's shown here on the map. Um, the requested revision

392
00:29:53,665 --> 00:29:57,635
to the, uh, preliminary, a previously approved preliminary plat adds seven lots

393
00:29:57,925 --> 00:30:01,205
in the southwest portion of section two. This brings the total to 196

394
00:30:02,315 --> 00:30:06,165
lots. The subject property own a single family and the additional lots are in

395
00:30:06,325 --> 00:30:09,765
conformance with the zoning. The additional lots are supported by updated sanitary

396
00:30:10,415 --> 00:30:14,265
sewer capacity. Staff recommends approval, happy to answer any questions. Okay, any

397
00:30:14,645 --> 00:30:18,565
questions from the commission to the city staff? The, is the

398
00:30:18,685 --> 00:30:22,205
full subdivision built out in the aerial in the packet? It looks

399
00:30:23,145 --> 00:30:27,015
the 10th built out. Is it fully developed? I believe maybe

400
00:30:27,365 --> 00:30:31,365
the applicant can help us a little bit with that, but I, I believe section one is under construction

401
00:30:31,685 --> 00:30:35,485
and this is the, the revised preliminary pla for both sections. So yeah, they've

402
00:30:35,845 --> 00:30:39,785
started, they've started construction but the revision is for uh,

403
00:30:40,005 --> 00:30:43,925
section two, which I believe is to the north of the area. You

404
00:30:44,125 --> 00:30:46,125
see where the streets are going in. Yep. Thank you.

405
00:30:48,465 --> 00:30:52,165
any other questions? Alright, uh, is the applicant

406
00:30:52,685 --> 00:30:52,685
present?

407
00:31:00,215 --> 00:31:03,765
hello? Uh, kevin masters 300 point park boulevard.

408
00:31:04,625 --> 00:31:08,605
I'm here, uh, representing uh, the applicant and we request

409
00:31:09,085 --> 00:31:12,705
approval for the, uh, revised preliminary plat for water rose ranch. Um,

410
00:31:13,265 --> 00:31:17,125
so originally the original plant was plat was approved four

411
00:31:17,325 --> 00:31:21,295
years ago with us allowing 189 lots, but due to sewer

412
00:31:21,885 --> 00:31:25,715
capacity, uh, we had a bunch of septic, uh, septic lots,

413
00:31:26,115 --> 00:31:29,995
lots with septic systems and um, but we got new information that

414
00:31:30,585 --> 00:31:34,075
the, uh, city can allow us to add nine additional lots

415
00:31:34,755 --> 00:31:38,005
further. Um, the city changed their subdivision regulations,

416
00:31:39,105 --> 00:31:42,905
um, back then, uh, for lots on septic systems, the

417
00:31:43,125 --> 00:31:46,925
minimum lot square footage was 30,000 and they changed it to 21,780.

418
00:31:49,025 --> 00:31:53,005
so 0.5 acres, which is basically deqs minimum, uh, required

419
00:31:53,355 --> 00:31:57,285
lots for septic system. So with those two uh, points, that's how

420
00:31:57,365 --> 00:32:01,345
we got the seven additional lots and um, I'm happy to answer any

421
00:32:01,725 --> 00:32:04,605
questions and uh, uh, staff recommends approval.

422
00:32:06,555 --> 00:32:10,525
alright, the only question I have could, um, christie, could you

423
00:32:10,605 --> 00:32:14,455
pull up the, uh, the previous map? Yeah, right there. Where

424
00:32:14,805 --> 00:32:18,245
were the, uh, seven added, uh, I can show you.

425
00:32:28,185 --> 00:32:32,165
so we got five extra lots on this side right up

426
00:32:32,285 --> 00:32:36,155
here. We got two one lot and another lot. Okay,

427
00:32:36,735 --> 00:32:40,725
thank you. Any other questions from the applicant?

428
00:32:43,595 --> 00:32:47,405
alright, thank you. Alright, thank you. Are there any questions or comments

429
00:32:47,795 --> 00:32:49,985
from the public? Any

430
00:32:52,405 --> 00:32:56,265
comments regarding that? Alright, can

431
00:32:56,485 --> 00:32:59,265
I hear a motion to bring this to a vote? Motion

432
00:33:00,665 --> 00:33:03,445
second. Okay. All in favor,

433
00:33:07,715 --> 00:33:11,105
that motion passes and

434
00:33:17,795 --> 00:33:21,725
that, uh, that, uh, that ends here. It will not be going to counsel.

435
00:33:22,835 --> 00:33:26,005
alright, let's see.

436
00:33:31,315 --> 00:33:35,245
alright, case number s sp two five. This is item number b,

437
00:33:37,185 --> 00:33:37,425
sp 2 5 0 8.

438
00:34:00,905 --> 00:34:04,285
all right, ken, you want to go ahead and uh, present that please, sir? Of course. Thank you.

439
00:34:05,195 --> 00:34:08,485
applicant is requesting approval of a site plan for a walmart neighborhood market,

440
00:34:09,235 --> 00:34:13,045
approximately 9.6 acre. Subject property is located at the northwest

441
00:34:13,445 --> 00:34:17,425
corner of coltrane and coval. You see that here. Uh,

442
00:34:17,945 --> 00:34:21,845
the subject property is zoned e two pud, um, a pud that's titled

443
00:34:22,405 --> 00:34:26,385
ashford oaks site plan. Details include, um, the proposal for

444
00:34:26,715 --> 00:34:29,645
approximately 44,000 square foot building

445
00:34:31,465 --> 00:34:34,725
access will be provided with two driveways, one each on covel and coltrane.

446
00:34:36,185 --> 00:34:39,495
the building will be approximately 27 feet tall at its highest point.

447
00:34:41,705 --> 00:34:45,515
the facade will consist of architectural masonry and concrete masonry units with

448
00:34:45,805 --> 00:34:49,635
metal accents and canopies. Screening

449
00:34:50,245 --> 00:34:54,045
includes a fence and land and landscaping, which will be installed along the north

450
00:34:54,345 --> 00:34:58,285
and west sides of the subject property. In order for the development

451
00:34:58,645 --> 00:35:02,605
to proceed, the site must also be platted. This is a separate and additional step that will include

452
00:35:02,845 --> 00:35:06,185
details about the arterial roadway and intersection rights of way.

453
00:35:06,905 --> 00:35:10,765
and there are improvements that will be constructed by the applicant. There's additional engineering

454
00:35:11,045 --> 00:35:14,925
design work to do related to the driveway on culturing to ensure that it meets all drainage

455
00:35:15,285 --> 00:35:19,245
requirements. Mr. Beatty representing, um, the engineering department may wanna offer further

456
00:35:19,525 --> 00:35:23,445
details. The engineering and design details must for the site plan must

457
00:35:23,645 --> 00:35:27,525
meet the city's adopted standards before a site plan can be authorized for construction

458
00:35:27,805 --> 00:35:31,645
by the city engineer staff recommends approval of the site plan based on compliance

459
00:35:31,925 --> 00:35:35,845
with the flood plain requirements associated with the drive on call train. Mr. Batty, you want to offer

460
00:35:36,205 --> 00:35:39,985
a little more on that, that flood plain issue? Well, where they're coming in

461
00:35:40,225 --> 00:35:43,845
for the drains, we were a little concerned that it could cause a rise properly designed.

462
00:35:44,625 --> 00:35:47,765
it probably will not, but the engineer has not supplied us that information

463
00:35:48,785 --> 00:35:48,785
yet.

464
00:35:53,015 --> 00:35:56,605
we're happy to answer any questions you may have. Any other questions to the staff?

465
00:35:58,505 --> 00:36:02,405
excuse me, keith, I'd like to ask the one question. Is there,

466
00:36:03,225 --> 00:36:07,085
you know, mo, most of the um, uh, conversation

467
00:36:08,065 --> 00:36:11,965
on this has been about, uh, widening

468
00:36:12,525 --> 00:36:16,405
the road, uh, widening covell, uh, what is the

469
00:36:16,585 --> 00:36:20,065
city's plan of widening covell from coltrane to bryant?

470
00:36:21,105 --> 00:36:24,945
uh, and, and you know, the previous applicant was, uh, from bryant to boulevard. How

471
00:36:25,165 --> 00:36:29,035
about those two sections? Um, not sure on bryant and cove,

472
00:36:29,505 --> 00:36:33,245
but they're coltrane that has been under design, but at this point the city

473
00:36:33,545 --> 00:36:37,445
has no funding source for construction. Okay, so it's not in the, uh,

474
00:36:37,645 --> 00:36:41,645
the near budget? No, sir. Okay. How about, uh, traffic lights for coltrane

475
00:36:42,205 --> 00:36:45,965
and cove? Is that, uh, included,

476
00:36:47,305 --> 00:36:50,865
uh, in there that currently has traffic lights? Now

477
00:36:51,585 --> 00:36:54,885
the applicant will have to do some road improvements on cove and coltrane.

478
00:36:56,305 --> 00:37:00,165
um, they have submitted a traffic impact analysis and we're still looking

479
00:37:00,505 --> 00:37:04,405
at that. And as they go through on the site plan, there will be discussion about

480
00:37:04,605 --> 00:37:08,365
section line requirements and as part of that, the lighting system will be revised

481
00:37:09,215 --> 00:37:10,925
based upon what they do for widening.

482
00:37:13,635 --> 00:37:17,625
alright. Alright. Is the applicant present? Yes, sir.

483
00:37:20,275 --> 00:37:24,235
tell us about your project. Yes, good afternoon, david box 5 25 northwest

484
00:37:25,085 --> 00:37:29,085
11th street. So I'll drop that, uh, here

485
00:37:29,245 --> 00:37:33,105
on behalf of the applicant. Uh, as well with me, I've got, uh, members of, uh,

486
00:37:33,345 --> 00:37:37,205
my team including the, uh, developer as well as the civil engineer for

487
00:37:37,365 --> 00:37:41,285
the project. So as staff said, what is before you this evening is, uh, a

488
00:37:41,405 --> 00:37:44,705
site plan application. It's a bit of a unique site plan application. So

489
00:37:45,445 --> 00:37:49,405
I think we probably need to look back to the history of this site. And when

490
00:37:49,605 --> 00:37:53,485
it came before, uh, the commission last time, starting back

491
00:37:53,725 --> 00:37:57,505
in 1990, the city council approved a pud on this site. Uh,

492
00:37:57,785 --> 00:38:01,705
the pud is a little different than the puds you expect to see these days in

493
00:38:01,925 --> 00:38:05,925
that it's a three page pud, it has really

494
00:38:06,165 --> 00:38:09,685
no requirements. It's an e two open display commercial pud

495
00:38:10,315 --> 00:38:14,025
that doesn't seek to limit e two in any meaningful way.

496
00:38:15,025 --> 00:38:18,595
so in 1990, the city council passed the ordinance approving

497
00:38:19,405 --> 00:38:23,225
e two on this site. So what is not up for debate this evening is

498
00:38:23,445 --> 00:38:27,325
whether or not a grocery store makes sense here. That was decided

499
00:38:27,605 --> 00:38:31,005
in 1990 before the ashford oaks residential neighborhood was constructed.

500
00:38:32,475 --> 00:38:36,475
what is not up for debate here is whether or not traffic will be impacted. That

501
00:38:36,765 --> 00:38:40,565
will happen at the plating stage. As staff said, a traffic impact analysis

502
00:38:40,825 --> 00:38:44,645
has been submitted to the staff. When we move forward, staff will have suggestions

503
00:38:45,165 --> 00:38:49,145
that we will have to do at the platting stage. We do not intend in

504
00:38:49,365 --> 00:38:53,165
any way whatsoever to seek to vary any requirements that the city

505
00:38:53,405 --> 00:38:57,205
of edmond has for development of this site. The pud allows

506
00:38:57,585 --> 00:39:01,465
for a, uh, a grocery store and that is simply not up for debate.

507
00:39:02,105 --> 00:39:06,045
so a site plan application cannot be used to strip away

508
00:39:06,325 --> 00:39:09,985
rights that exist pursuant to legally authorized zoning.

509
00:39:10,625 --> 00:39:13,445
that's what we have here, an e two open display commercial.

510
00:39:14,745 --> 00:39:17,165
now, why I want to talk about what happened in 2015

511
00:39:19,065 --> 00:39:22,725
is there was a lot of discussion and debate about what a site plan application

512
00:39:23,425 --> 00:39:27,225
is and what it is not. When we came through in 2015, we

513
00:39:27,445 --> 00:39:31,245
had a walmart neighborhood market, just like you have here before you.

514
00:39:31,985 --> 00:39:35,845
um, it came before planning commission on site plan review, and at that time

515
00:39:36,425 --> 00:39:40,165
the vote was two to two. Two to two was deemed a denial. So we appealed

516
00:39:40,645 --> 00:39:44,485
that to the city council. The city council in a vote of two

517
00:39:44,745 --> 00:39:48,605
to three denied it. So we appealed to the district

518
00:39:48,805 --> 00:39:52,565
court of oklahoma county at that time. We had a site plan that was fully

519
00:39:53,125 --> 00:39:56,365
compliant with all regulations and ordinances that existed

520
00:39:57,185 --> 00:40:01,085
on the subject site. We took the position that when you

521
00:40:01,205 --> 00:40:05,105
have a site plan that's fully compliant with ordinances, the duty of

522
00:40:05,325 --> 00:40:09,045
the planning commission, and ultimately city council, if it gets there, is a ministerial duty.

523
00:40:09,955 --> 00:40:13,485
that means there's no discretion afforded this body or the city council

524
00:40:14,505 --> 00:40:18,305
if in fact the site plan is submitted, that conforms to all of

525
00:40:18,525 --> 00:40:22,325
the rules. And if you think about why that's important, think about what zoning

526
00:40:22,745 --> 00:40:26,595
is. Zoning is a discussion of compatibility. Does

527
00:40:27,285 --> 00:40:30,925
e two open display commercial at this site find itself compatible

528
00:40:31,435 --> 00:40:35,205
with surrounding uses? The only body that can make that choice is of course

529
00:40:35,465 --> 00:40:39,365
the elected body. The city council and the city council in 1990

530
00:40:39,875 --> 00:40:43,525
approve the pud telling us that development under the e two

531
00:40:44,285 --> 00:40:47,445
standards is compatible and appropriate at this intersection.

532
00:40:48,905 --> 00:40:52,685
so after we were denied at city council, we found ourselves

533
00:40:53,105 --> 00:40:57,085
at the district court. The asford oaks hoa intervened

534
00:40:57,325 --> 00:41:01,165
into that lawsuit. All three parties filed cross motions for summary

535
00:41:01,765 --> 00:41:05,645
judgment. The district court ruled against the city

536
00:41:05,805 --> 00:41:09,525
of edmond, ruled against the asford oaks, hoa siding

537
00:41:09,955 --> 00:41:13,685
with my side. And what the district court said in their ruling at paragraph

538
00:41:14,075 --> 00:41:17,905
nine is city council's decision to uphold the

539
00:41:18,285 --> 00:41:22,165
planning commission denial based upon broad standards of public

540
00:41:22,405 --> 00:41:26,025
health, safety and welfare was arbitrary and

541
00:41:26,485 --> 00:41:30,435
unreasonable. Health, safety, general

542
00:41:30,925 --> 00:41:34,645
welfare. Those are standards used in legislative decisions.

543
00:41:35,595 --> 00:41:39,525
this is not a legislative decision. Zoning decisions are when

544
00:41:39,725 --> 00:41:43,125
the broad standards of health, safety and welfare come into place,

545
00:41:43,945 --> 00:41:47,565
not psych blame. Further at paragraph

546
00:41:47,965 --> 00:41:51,325
10 of the district court opinion, the court says the city council's

547
00:41:52,005 --> 00:41:55,905
decision to uphold planning commission's denial deprived plaintiff of

548
00:41:56,305 --> 00:42:00,245
its property rights. Well, why that's important is those property rights

549
00:42:00,565 --> 00:42:04,405
were vested in september of 1990 when the city council

550
00:42:04,865 --> 00:42:07,765
saw fit to a proven ordinance granting e two open display commercial,

551
00:42:09,315 --> 00:42:12,645
this property vested with the right to develop

552
00:42:13,445 --> 00:42:17,305
a grocery store. Now of course, it's subject to meeting the rules and

553
00:42:17,525 --> 00:42:21,125
regulations that exist in both the pud and the zoning ordinance.

554
00:42:22,545 --> 00:42:26,295
but what we have before you is a site plan that is fully

555
00:42:27,125 --> 00:42:30,295
compliant with all of those things. After

556
00:42:31,385 --> 00:42:35,205
the district court judgment, edmond and ashford oaks appealed

557
00:42:35,645 --> 00:42:39,365
the matter to the oklahoma supreme court. The oklahoma supreme court

558
00:42:39,995 --> 00:42:43,965
transferred that case to the oklahoma court of civil appeals. The oklahoma court of civil

559
00:42:44,125 --> 00:42:47,755
appeals affirmed the judgment of the district court affirming

560
00:42:48,945 --> 00:42:52,825
my client's position, specifically what they say at

561
00:42:53,045 --> 00:42:56,965
paragraph 11 while discussing the role that edmund has in site

562
00:42:57,205 --> 00:43:01,125
plan review says, pursuant to oklahoma statute section

563
00:43:01,445 --> 00:43:05,155
43 dash one 12 city's review of developer site

564
00:43:05,525 --> 00:43:09,345
plan application was confined to determining whether the

565
00:43:09,565 --> 00:43:13,325
plan met conditions and standards of the pud and applicable zoning

566
00:43:13,815 --> 00:43:17,765
ordinances. For that reason, if developer site plan met or

567
00:43:18,165 --> 00:43:21,785
exceeded the requirements of the pud and applicable ordinances, city's

568
00:43:22,205 --> 00:43:26,205
review should be deemed ministerial. So what does

569
00:43:26,525 --> 00:43:30,425
ministerial mean? Well, marian webster's tells us it means an act

570
00:43:30,835 --> 00:43:34,545
done in obedience to a legal order without exercise of

571
00:43:35,125 --> 00:43:38,635
personal judgment or discretion. Your

572
00:43:39,205 --> 00:43:42,925
analysis is a simple one. Does the site plan before you

573
00:43:43,225 --> 00:43:47,165
comply with e two? Does the site plan before you

574
00:43:47,545 --> 00:43:51,325
comply with any other development regulation that the city of edmond

575
00:43:51,705 --> 00:43:54,945
may have on the books? If the answer is yes,

576
00:43:56,345 --> 00:44:00,255
the court of civil appeals on this exact property on this exact

577
00:44:00,955 --> 00:44:04,435
type of application told you the answer is your

578
00:44:05,045 --> 00:44:08,855
decision and your analysis is ministerial, meaning again,

579
00:44:09,625 --> 00:44:13,405
an act done in obedience to a legal order without exercise of personal

580
00:44:13,765 --> 00:44:17,585
judgment or discretion. One of the things we

581
00:44:17,805 --> 00:44:20,965
can look at to see if in fact we meet those ordinances

582
00:44:21,985 --> 00:44:25,175
is of course your unbiased objective planning staff.

583
00:44:26,675 --> 00:44:30,045
they have recommended approval of this for the only reason

584
00:44:31,075 --> 00:44:34,955
that we meet each and every ordinance provision that

585
00:44:35,245 --> 00:44:37,555
exists for development of this site.

586
00:44:39,585 --> 00:44:42,925
now you're gonna hear issues from the neighbors about traffic. I suspect,

587
00:44:44,025 --> 00:44:47,815
um, as staff said, that is a platting issue. If you look at your staff report staff,

588
00:44:48,825 --> 00:44:52,725
um, in fact tells you under paragraph 12 of your staff

589
00:44:52,925 --> 00:44:56,765
report, platting will be required in order for the development to proceed.

590
00:44:57,045 --> 00:45:00,845
the developer will be responsible for improvements to both cowell road and coltrane

591
00:45:01,365 --> 00:45:05,285
road in compliance with the platting process because these requirements are

592
00:45:05,445 --> 00:45:09,085
associated with platting title 21 verse site plan title 22.

593
00:45:10,155 --> 00:45:13,685
many of the roadway components shown on site plan will need to be modified to meet planning requirements.

594
00:45:14,515 --> 00:45:18,405
what I'm here to tell you is whatever your public work staff tells us we have to do with the planning process

595
00:45:18,985 --> 00:45:21,725
as it relates to traffic management, we will meet,

596
00:45:24,745 --> 00:45:28,325
you may hear about a landscape

597
00:45:28,765 --> 00:45:32,625
buffer that the neighborhood believed is required. The

598
00:45:32,845 --> 00:45:36,725
wording of the pud and this is litigated and decided by the course of

599
00:45:36,885 --> 00:45:40,845
appeals, the wording of the pud says there shall be a 125 foot

600
00:45:41,085 --> 00:45:44,155
green belt area surrounding the subject site.

601
00:45:45,385 --> 00:45:48,605
the word surrounding, of course, means outside of and not within.

602
00:45:49,515 --> 00:45:53,285
what you see here is the 125 foot buffer is satisfied

603
00:45:54,275 --> 00:45:58,205
with the land surrounding the subject tract. Now we have

604
00:45:58,405 --> 00:46:02,365
significant opportunity within our site plan to landscape this and create

605
00:46:02,965 --> 00:46:06,605
a environment that is full of trees and compatible

606
00:46:07,235 --> 00:46:11,105
with the neighborhood. I think it's important to note that when you look at

607
00:46:11,545 --> 00:46:15,525
the way that the site sits, it provides I think a

608
00:46:15,645 --> 00:46:19,635
wonderful opportunity to be compatible in that we, this

609
00:46:19,925 --> 00:46:23,925
site sits down. So here's a line of sight exhibit. So what

610
00:46:24,165 --> 00:46:28,165
we have here is the an, an average human standing here looking this way and looking

611
00:46:28,365 --> 00:46:32,315
this way. The top of our building is 27 feet tall.

612
00:46:33,505 --> 00:46:37,465
our site sits 30 feet down. So what does that mean? Well, we

613
00:46:37,685 --> 00:46:41,685
are gonna have a six foot tall fence, all new plantings throughout here

614
00:46:42,345 --> 00:46:45,945
and terrace landscaping moving down. It will be unable

615
00:46:46,365 --> 00:46:48,005
to be seen from the neighborhood.

616
00:46:52,065 --> 00:46:55,815
the structure is masonry product, which

617
00:46:56,245 --> 00:46:59,785
complies with the architectural compatibility requirement of the pud.

618
00:47:00,595 --> 00:47:04,485
that was again, litigated the last time the court of civil

619
00:47:04,605 --> 00:47:08,205
appeals specifically addressed that, saying that in fact it was compatible.

620
00:47:09,015 --> 00:47:11,965
compatible doesn't mean identical compatible means compatible.

621
00:47:13,225 --> 00:47:16,845
so what is before you is a site plan that complies with everything

622
00:47:18,515 --> 00:47:21,965
that the city of edmond has for development regulations

623
00:47:22,625 --> 00:47:26,425
on this site. We're here to answer any questions. We

624
00:47:26,645 --> 00:47:30,305
urge you to follow the law that was set

625
00:47:30,905 --> 00:47:34,725
by the court of civil appeals on this very issue, on this very piece

626
00:47:35,005 --> 00:47:38,845
of property and uphold the property rights that my client

627
00:47:39,225 --> 00:47:42,485
now enjoys. And everyone since 1990 has enjoyed.

628
00:47:43,575 --> 00:47:47,565
happy to answer any questions. Alright, commission, do you

629
00:47:47,685 --> 00:47:48,765
have any questions for the applicant?

630
00:47:52,425 --> 00:47:56,325
uh, so let me ask a quick question here. Uh, mr. Box, would your client

631
00:47:56,485 --> 00:48:00,125
be willing to reduce the footprint or parking lot to a size more appropriate

632
00:48:00,745 --> 00:48:03,845
for like a dollar store, dollar tree, family dollar,

633
00:48:05,065 --> 00:48:07,605
uh, walmart, dollar wall, dollar,

634
00:48:09,525 --> 00:48:13,465
anything like that? Well, because, because what I'm, what I'm getting at is here is

635
00:48:13,865 --> 00:48:17,515
is just the, the overall mass of it. The size of it. Yeah.

636
00:48:18,045 --> 00:48:22,005
I mean our, I mean it does, it still fits within the pod, but I didn't know if

637
00:48:22,125 --> 00:48:25,825
there was a, uh, smaller footprint that was within the, uh, walmart family

638
00:48:26,985 --> 00:48:30,765
for the the parking or the building? Uh, for the building. For the building? No, just

639
00:48:31,005 --> 00:48:35,005
a smaller building. No, the the building's before the is before you on the side plan is what?

640
00:48:35,395 --> 00:48:38,885
okay. Um, we need, which again is as you know, fully complies

641
00:48:39,995 --> 00:48:43,885
with the ordinances. Okay. I'm sorry. Yeah, I

642
00:48:44,005 --> 00:48:47,965
just have one thing. So I did read through that p and it is, you're right, it's only three pages.

643
00:48:48,865 --> 00:48:52,725
um, section 12 of the pud states that the concept

644
00:48:53,345 --> 00:48:57,095
is to develop this tract in a manner and architectural style

645
00:48:57,715 --> 00:49:01,565
that will be consistent with the surrounding area. Yeah, that's a, that's where I

646
00:49:01,925 --> 00:49:05,725
just have a little con a little concern 'cause I don't see that matching the surrounding

647
00:49:05,965 --> 00:49:09,695
area. Well, when you say matching, I guess, uh, it compatible

648
00:49:10,395 --> 00:49:14,325
doesn't mean matching. Uh, what I would point you

649
00:49:14,485 --> 00:49:17,325
to is in the court civil fuels opinion at paragraph 12,

650
00:49:18,585 --> 00:49:22,385
uh, it says, and I quote the pud design statement places few

651
00:49:22,605 --> 00:49:26,245
demands on the subject tract chief. Among those requirements are the 125

652
00:49:27,205 --> 00:49:30,845
foot green belt surrounding the property on the west and the north and the

653
00:49:31,245 --> 00:49:35,085
edict that the tract is to be developed in a manner and architectural style that will be consistent

654
00:49:35,565 --> 00:49:39,425
with the surrounding area. City's own planning, excuse me, director of planning and

655
00:49:39,645 --> 00:49:43,645
zoning, testified that the site plans proposed architectural style complies

656
00:49:44,205 --> 00:49:47,485
with the pd requirements. This is the exact same architectural

657
00:49:48,245 --> 00:49:52,205
style. The color is different. Mm-hmm . It is the, why is the color different? I noticed it used

658
00:49:52,365 --> 00:49:56,285
to be brick, like the, you know, red images now it's the gray walmarts

659
00:49:57,235 --> 00:50:01,165
kind of yeah. What they're going into their prototype and blue.

660
00:50:01,515 --> 00:50:05,325
yeah. Okay. But there's nothing stopping a neighbor from painting their house

661
00:50:06,515 --> 00:50:09,625
this exact color. But that was litigated before.

662
00:50:10,625 --> 00:50:13,665
and what we have from a comp compatibility standpoint is

663
00:50:14,685 --> 00:50:18,605
a masonry building. Most of the homes are of course masonry being brick.

664
00:50:20,155 --> 00:50:23,965
it's a flat roof. There are plenty of flat roof structures. In fact, in

665
00:50:24,165 --> 00:50:27,965
my motion for summary judgment below, we attached an exhibit showing all of the different

666
00:50:28,205 --> 00:50:31,665
flat roof single family residential homes that exist within a couple mile radius.

667
00:50:32,275 --> 00:50:35,645
yeah. So that's why the course of appeal said this exact architectural style

668
00:50:36,505 --> 00:50:39,125
is in fact compatible with, with paragraph 12 of the ped.

669
00:50:41,595 --> 00:50:45,275
okay. Thank you. I have a few questions here.

670
00:50:46,305 --> 00:50:50,245
um, so I've got the review criteria here from the code

671
00:50:51,265 --> 00:50:55,005
and um, I'm not gonna argue anything you, you said earlier,

672
00:50:55,785 --> 00:50:59,525
but there are three items in the review criteria. So subsection

673
00:51:00,285 --> 00:51:04,245
dd three, d four, d five, uh, the safe public health safety

674
00:51:04,645 --> 00:51:08,645
welfare. I think you kind of mentioned that the visual compatibility he kind of just

675
00:51:08,875 --> 00:51:12,825
discussed, but I stood on that corner. I didn't see any, uh,

676
00:51:13,045 --> 00:51:15,885
12 by six or eight gray center block buildings

677
00:51:17,205 --> 00:51:21,205
anywhere. Uh, I even took the liberty and taking a tee time at fairfax, didn't see

678
00:51:21,345 --> 00:51:25,325
any. Um, so I want you to discuss that in a little

679
00:51:25,445 --> 00:51:28,955
bit more detail than what you just did. And then number five, my primary concern

680
00:51:29,515 --> 00:51:32,315
that ingress egress internal traffic circulation.

681
00:51:33,745 --> 00:51:37,365
um, so it drives me nuts when people do this whenever there's a congested

682
00:51:37,965 --> 00:51:41,705
intersection they cut through the nearest parking lot, uh,

683
00:51:42,225 --> 00:51:46,145
myself as a rule follower, it makes my blood boil when I see a car cut

684
00:51:46,365 --> 00:51:50,045
an intersection. Um, I can see with how this intersection

685
00:51:50,635 --> 00:51:54,565
already plays out. I get that has nothing to do with your site plan, but people cutting

686
00:51:55,045 --> 00:51:58,845
through your site that will have a safety issue that I'm concerned by.

687
00:51:59,545 --> 00:52:03,465
now, I was hit by a car while running around uco when I was in college. So

688
00:52:04,105 --> 00:52:07,925
partly when someone, a pedestrian is crossing right here

689
00:52:08,705 --> 00:52:12,685
during this or wherever entrance is this turn lane, if someone's gunning it

690
00:52:13,595 --> 00:52:17,525
left in and out, uh, I believe that does create a safety issue within

691
00:52:18,555 --> 00:52:21,985
your site that has nothing to do with coville or coltrane. Um,

692
00:52:22,585 --> 00:52:25,865
so I think that's the visual compatibility. Um,

693
00:52:26,645 --> 00:52:30,405
I don't think that's as subjective as we think it is. And then the ingress, egress and internal

694
00:52:30,755 --> 00:52:34,525
traffic circulation, which, uh, is in the review criteria.

695
00:52:35,065 --> 00:52:38,845
number five, uh, that is something that, uh, I don't

696
00:52:39,165 --> 00:52:43,165
believe this site plan, uh, checks that

697
00:52:43,365 --> 00:52:46,755
box for me. Is it pud criteria? Uh, the site plan?

698
00:52:47,715 --> 00:52:51,645
yeah. So site plan review, all I can tell you

699
00:52:51,785 --> 00:52:54,245
is as it relates to ingress and egress and circulation,

700
00:52:56,445 --> 00:53:00,165
whatever the code says is required, whatever your public works department says is required

701
00:53:00,945 --> 00:53:04,905
is what we will meet. If there are slight adjustments that are needed at

702
00:53:05,125 --> 00:53:09,125
the planning stage, those will be met. The reference to health and safety,

703
00:53:09,885 --> 00:53:13,645
I will again, uh, revert back to the court of civil appeals opinion. In paragraph

704
00:53:13,965 --> 00:53:17,805
15, courts have been less willing to allow local governments to use the public

705
00:53:18,045 --> 00:53:21,865
health safety and welfare concern to justify site plan disapprovals. The

706
00:53:22,085 --> 00:53:25,925
reason is obvious site plan review is ministerial decision that follows

707
00:53:26,285 --> 00:53:30,285
from the applicant's demonstrated compliance with specific standards. The public

708
00:53:30,525 --> 00:53:34,445
health safety and welfare standard is a broad standard that demands exercise

709
00:53:34,645 --> 00:53:38,285
of discretion. For this reason, the court can usually rule that it's arbitrary

710
00:53:38,685 --> 00:53:42,605
and capricious to deny a site plan approval on grounds of public health,

711
00:53:43,025 --> 00:53:46,885
safety and welfare. So I I I don't

712
00:53:47,385 --> 00:53:51,035
if that comes from the ordinance, I'm not sure. What I can tell you is there's

713
00:53:51,525 --> 00:53:55,515
not a provision of this site plan that fails to conform to any objective

714
00:53:56,365 --> 00:54:00,085
standard that exists within edmond's

715
00:54:00,405 --> 00:54:03,525
municipal ordinance. It was litigated for three years

716
00:54:04,735 --> 00:54:08,645
after the court of civil appeals opinion, edmond and the neighbors sought a petition

717
00:54:08,865 --> 00:54:12,265
for cert at the, at the state supreme court that was denied

718
00:54:12,945 --> 00:54:16,345
by the state's supreme court, meaning the court of civil appeals opinion issued

719
00:54:16,985 --> 00:54:20,805
on june 30th, 2017 is what is on this piece

720
00:54:21,005 --> 00:54:24,805
of property. So in terms of you not seeing another cinder block building

721
00:54:25,755 --> 00:54:29,515
compatibility doesn't have to mean there has to be another one next to it. What

722
00:54:29,805 --> 00:54:33,745
it means, I think, is it's a masonry product. The

723
00:54:33,965 --> 00:54:37,735
product we are using is specifically authorized under edmond's ordinances.

724
00:54:39,555 --> 00:54:41,665
therefore, we check that box.

725
00:54:45,455 --> 00:54:49,335
these aren't my words. This is what the state court

726
00:54:49,685 --> 00:54:53,525
of civil appeals told us. That issue was litigated ad nauseum.

727
00:54:55,635 --> 00:54:59,515
that exact issue, that exact argument failed both

728
00:54:59,805 --> 00:55:01,405
at the district court and the court of civil appeals.

729
00:55:03,975 --> 00:55:07,645
thank you. Uh, I think some of the emails that we

730
00:55:08,005 --> 00:55:10,705
received were, uh, in connection to the, uh,

731
00:55:12,075 --> 00:55:15,485
unprotected left turn. I know we're not talking, that's not a site plan,

732
00:55:16,265 --> 00:55:20,165
but that is, I I didn't know if you could address that, that, uh, that will be addressed

733
00:55:20,545 --> 00:55:24,285
in the, um, preliminary plat. But, uh, I know that that's

734
00:55:24,565 --> 00:55:26,985
gonna come up in their comments. Uh, any

735
00:55:28,605 --> 00:55:32,275
thoughts on the left turn that has to be done into your site?

736
00:55:33,025 --> 00:55:36,695
how and go ahead. Yeah, I, I don't know. I mean, I would, you know, defer

737
00:55:37,045 --> 00:55:40,525
to to to staff, right? I think they're still analyzing the traffic impact analysis

738
00:55:41,305 --> 00:55:44,685
and whatever staff tells us is necessary based upon their expertise

739
00:55:45,505 --> 00:55:49,155
and that of the, the tia is what you'll see. Okay.

740
00:55:51,265 --> 00:55:55,105
any other questions for the applicant? Alright, thank you mr. Box.

741
00:55:56,505 --> 00:56:00,315
um, let me make a little statement here before we, uh, open

742
00:56:00,605 --> 00:56:04,565
this up for, uh, for your, your comments. Um, I received more

743
00:56:04,805 --> 00:56:08,705
than, uh, 70 emails regarding this project. Excuse

744
00:56:09,145 --> 00:56:12,955
me. I wish I had only received 70 . Yeah, well,

745
00:56:13,265 --> 00:56:16,155
you're more popular than I am. Um, unfortunately

746
00:56:17,525 --> 00:56:21,445
I received more than 70 emails regarding this project, and I can gladly say that

747
00:56:21,705 --> 00:56:25,685
all were several. I appreciate that. And, and I know that

748
00:56:25,845 --> 00:56:29,525
there are a lot of people here that, uh, uh, would like to make comments

749
00:56:29,865 --> 00:56:33,405
and we considered limiting comments to three minutes or a short period of time,

750
00:56:34,785 --> 00:56:38,745
but decided against it and only wanted to ask that you be brief in

751
00:56:38,965 --> 00:56:42,965
your comments, especially if, uh, uh, one of your neighbors had

752
00:56:43,165 --> 00:56:47,045
already mentioned the item. Uh, probably doesn't mean to that you need to mention

753
00:56:47,225 --> 00:56:50,805
it in detail again, just say ditto or, or I agree or something like that.

754
00:56:51,705 --> 00:56:55,065
but you must limit your comments to the site plan review,

755
00:56:56,185 --> 00:57:00,005
not the applicant's business plan. You know, even though there's a crest

756
00:57:00,285 --> 00:57:03,765
down the street, don't want to hear about it. Uh, well, it's not necessary.

757
00:57:04,425 --> 00:57:07,905
I'm sorry. I'll hear about it, but it's not necessary. , um,

758
00:57:08,635 --> 00:57:12,525
this is a site plan review of a plan that is being presented. A

759
00:57:12,645 --> 00:57:16,565
similar plan was presented in, uh, 2015 was, was deemed appropriate

760
00:57:17,145 --> 00:57:21,125
by the courts, but uh, no further action was taken. And so now

761
00:57:21,325 --> 00:57:24,815
we have a new site plan before us, and that's why we're going through this exercise again.

762
00:57:25,825 --> 00:57:29,745
so are there any comments from the public? Okay, I'll just, uh,

763
00:57:30,585 --> 00:57:34,485
sir, why don't you start here then I'll try to write down the question if

764
00:57:34,645 --> 00:57:38,415
you guys can help me. Yeah. My name is, uh, james carter.

765
00:57:39,285 --> 00:57:43,145
I live at, uh, 21 mission road. And I'm, uh,

766
00:57:43,665 --> 00:57:47,355
not gonna speak directly to your plan or the approval or disapproval of it. There's

767
00:57:47,845 --> 00:57:51,845
a few points that, uh, I

768
00:57:51,965 --> 00:57:55,885
can appreciate. Um, the concern for the traffic flow, uh, traffic

769
00:57:56,205 --> 00:57:59,905
living at 2,400 mission road is just off the entrance, um,

770
00:58:00,745 --> 00:58:04,525
on cavell or off on on coltrane, which is the first

771
00:58:04,965 --> 00:58:08,275
entrance down from cavell. And I'm assuming that

772
00:58:08,985 --> 00:58:12,525
the neighborhood walmart will be addressing the four section, the intersection

773
00:58:13,785 --> 00:58:17,765
of the four northeast, south, and west location where the stoplight is. That

774
00:58:18,005 --> 00:58:21,955
will be their mainstay of the traffic flow. I moved here in 2019 from

775
00:58:22,715 --> 00:58:26,565
west virginia prior to that, prior to the, the, the further

776
00:58:26,845 --> 00:58:30,455
development that's out near the cinemas. And then prior

777
00:58:30,865 --> 00:58:34,845
to that traffic light being introduced, that traffic flow was very general

778
00:58:35,825 --> 00:58:39,825
and it was easy. What I have found, living where I live, um, and

779
00:58:40,045 --> 00:58:43,285
I have four kids and I live the second house up in the subdivision on the corner,

780
00:58:44,105 --> 00:58:47,675
um, we now have the, the increased traffic flow

781
00:58:48,545 --> 00:58:51,745
to avoid the mess over near sooner is

782
00:58:52,815 --> 00:58:56,395
we're starting to get cars that cut through our neighborhood. So that was a valid concern.

783
00:58:57,665 --> 00:59:01,565
um, so all I would ask that if this

784
00:59:01,765 --> 00:59:05,065
is gonna be in consideration, if you look at the,

785
00:59:06,545 --> 00:59:10,475
the lead up on both, I guess covell coming west

786
00:59:11,185 --> 00:59:14,895
and north coltrane coming from the south, those

787
00:59:15,245 --> 00:59:19,185
are both two lane roads. And I know from the distance of

788
00:59:19,435 --> 00:59:23,225
that traffic light to the, the very next traffic light we're looking at,

789
00:59:23,745 --> 00:59:27,745
at, you know, two lanes, two thirds of the way. So if

790
00:59:28,025 --> 00:59:31,465
that's gonna be a consideration, I think if we're gonna employ

791
00:59:32,755 --> 00:59:35,685
this opportunity to the, to the landowner and to walmart,

792
00:59:36,765 --> 00:59:40,165
I think the infrastructure that needs to be in place

793
00:59:40,825 --> 00:59:44,685
on both cavell on the north side and the south side of the

794
00:59:44,845 --> 00:59:47,895
traffic light, and then on the west side of the traffic light

795
00:59:48,905 --> 00:59:52,845
to diminish the, the amount of traffic and cut through traffic should be widened. And I think

796
00:59:52,965 --> 00:59:56,965
that should be a consideration by the planning commission, and that should not be

797
00:59:57,125 --> 01:00:01,085
a burden on the citizens or the public tax talk tax dollars.

798
01:00:02,025 --> 01:00:05,745
um, my next point is, um,

799
01:00:06,425 --> 01:00:10,265
one of the things as a resident, I'm not gonna bring up home values. I'm,

800
01:00:11,395 --> 01:00:15,245
none of that is as much of a concern to me is when I walk out my back porch right

801
01:00:15,565 --> 01:00:18,285
now and I'm looking at the, the sky, I can see the stars

802
01:00:19,745 --> 01:00:23,475
and I would like to know what walmart is planning to do. They

803
01:00:23,825 --> 01:00:27,595
say that they're, they're complying with everything on all four corners.

804
01:00:28,145 --> 01:00:32,005
so you have subdivisions that surround this entire area, but what you don't

805
01:00:32,245 --> 01:00:36,005
have is light pollution. And we, we will

806
01:00:36,335 --> 01:00:40,285
incur light pollution directly from the led lights that they'll be

807
01:00:40,405 --> 01:00:43,805
submitting or implanting upon that property.

808
01:00:45,345 --> 01:00:48,405
and my last point that I'd like to make

809
01:00:49,385 --> 01:00:51,885
for consideration is I understand

810
01:00:53,625 --> 01:00:57,435
we we're talking about the drainage and they're gonna incur the cost

811
01:00:57,825 --> 01:01:01,235
for the drainage and storm water. Is that the increased

812
01:01:01,895 --> 01:01:05,805
water flow from the low slope roof that's gonna be installed on that particular

813
01:01:06,485 --> 01:01:10,325
building and across the asphalt that's there. And then

814
01:01:10,545 --> 01:01:14,445
in addition, what will be the mp epa impact with the

815
01:01:14,605 --> 01:01:18,555
water discharge and the oil staining that's happening on those type of lots?

816
01:01:18,865 --> 01:01:22,645
do we have, you know, the infrastructure in place to handle this, the increased

817
01:01:23,055 --> 01:01:26,165
speed for the water flow from that particular location? Because

818
01:01:27,685 --> 01:01:31,555
although this walmart will be sitting 30 feet lower than

819
01:01:31,845 --> 01:01:35,685
everything around it, I don't know when the last time you all played edmond golf

820
01:01:35,925 --> 01:01:39,785
club, but it is completely washed out. And to me, if

821
01:01:40,005 --> 01:01:43,585
we're gonna put the infrastructure to you

822
01:01:44,185 --> 01:01:47,405
and to the city and to the residents of edmond, if you're gonna add infrastructure,

823
01:01:49,185 --> 01:01:52,815
you're gonna need to add it all the way down that course to increase water

824
01:01:53,235 --> 01:01:57,145
flow because you have a subdivision that's being built on the

825
01:01:57,365 --> 01:02:00,485
backside of that, that location. You have two subdivisions that have been added,

826
01:02:01,585 --> 01:02:05,525
um, on covell on the new four lane. Then you have all the

827
01:02:05,645 --> 01:02:09,445
increased water flow from the four lane that's been added, and the speed of water

828
01:02:09,785 --> 01:02:13,685
is everything. Now, the one thing that nature does is it slows down water,

829
01:02:14,625 --> 01:02:17,865
it gives ground and opportunity to absorb water. And

830
01:02:18,665 --> 01:02:22,275
you have a couple of options here. You can dig a really deep

831
01:02:23,105 --> 01:02:26,825
pit for a spillway, which can

832
01:02:28,115 --> 01:02:32,005
produce, you know, um, you can end up

833
01:02:32,125 --> 01:02:35,605
with, you know, significant mosquito infestation, et cetera.

834
01:02:36,345 --> 01:02:39,955
but the end result is that will slow the water flow.

835
01:02:41,465 --> 01:02:45,305
but the, the last concern is the long-term effect of

836
01:02:45,525 --> 01:02:49,365
the maintenance of that water that's gonna be discharged off of that property

837
01:02:50,105 --> 01:02:54,065
and all the assuming properties down below it. See, I sit up above it, but what I do see

838
01:02:54,505 --> 01:02:58,505
is that my neighbor, which sits across from us on north covell,

839
01:02:59,825 --> 01:03:02,905
his entire front yard floods. And if you go down north covell

840
01:03:03,975 --> 01:03:07,925
right now between danforth, I'm sorry, not covell, coltrane, if you go

841
01:03:08,045 --> 01:03:12,025
between, um, danforth and covell on

842
01:03:12,245 --> 01:03:16,225
the left hand side, they just replaced the entire culver that just recently washed

843
01:03:16,645 --> 01:03:20,435
out because the water speed has increased to such a point that

844
01:03:20,725 --> 01:03:24,545
now we have a big backup on, on the, on, on, uh,

845
01:03:25,465 --> 01:03:29,405
on north coltrane below my entrance. And that's gonna happen

846
01:03:29,605 --> 01:03:33,125
further. And the point of the intersection that we're talking about

847
01:03:33,945 --> 01:03:37,805
is the lowest point in that particular area before it hits the golf course

848
01:03:38,985 --> 01:03:42,785
and continues to flow. So that's gonna be a significant, um,

849
01:03:43,695 --> 01:03:47,165
storm water impact. It's gonna be a maintenance and ongoing

850
01:03:48,155 --> 01:03:51,925
cost of infrastructure to the residents here in the city of

851
01:03:52,285 --> 01:03:55,885
edmond. But moreover, uh, to me, ,

852
01:03:56,505 --> 01:04:00,445
um, we're talking about traffic and I appreciate the fact that you

853
01:04:00,565 --> 01:04:04,445
guys are gonna app, you know, um, handle what's happening at the four lane. But

854
01:04:04,645 --> 01:04:08,605
if you're gonna ex, if you're gonna if go that far into it, I

855
01:04:08,725 --> 01:04:12,445
would appreciate if you take a look at the infrastructure of traffic

856
01:04:12,835 --> 01:04:16,045
flow, um, between the lights on danforth

857
01:04:17,065 --> 01:04:20,865
and cavell and then from, um, cavell

858
01:04:21,345 --> 01:04:25,025
all the way up to, I think that's, is that waterloo, that's next or,

859
01:04:25,825 --> 01:04:29,805
you know, northeast, south and west? I mean, I think that all of those things have to be

860
01:04:29,925 --> 01:04:33,445
taken into account and then I would like to see some sort of a,

861
01:04:34,405 --> 01:04:38,325
a limited store hour daylight planning, something that's truly

862
01:04:38,605 --> 01:04:42,605
neighborhood to where, you know, lights can be turned

863
01:04:42,805 --> 01:04:46,745
down or we can minimize the number of lights at night. So that truly you're,

864
01:04:47,245 --> 01:04:51,165
you're matching the infrastructure, which you're using ethos is what I'm assuming,

865
01:04:51,335 --> 01:04:55,285
which is typical, which is nothing more than styrofoam that's coated

866
01:04:55,645 --> 01:04:59,485
with a little masonry product and painted. Okay. So that's not truly a block building.

867
01:04:59,875 --> 01:05:03,765
alright. Um, but lastly, let's wrap it up a little bit. I appreciate

868
01:05:04,005 --> 01:05:07,685
you the, the commission taking this into account and, uh, thank you for your time.

869
01:05:08,155 --> 01:05:12,025
okay. Thank you. Thanks one, those issues, not

870
01:05:13,585 --> 01:05:16,445
any of those. No. Okay. Yes ma'am.

871
01:05:19,095 --> 01:05:21,105
thank you. I appreciate it. Thanks.

872
01:05:27,505 --> 01:05:31,505
hi, I'm christy bradley. I live, um, in sle chase road. I'm

873
01:05:31,725 --> 01:05:35,185
a civil engineer. Um, and um,

874
01:05:35,885 --> 01:05:39,885
I appreciate the history that you provided on the project. I wasn't aware of everything that had

875
01:05:40,005 --> 01:05:43,785
been going on. Um, looking at your site plan, everything that the last man,

876
01:05:44,385 --> 01:05:48,245
uh, mentioned was really helpful. Um, what is your

877
01:05:48,405 --> 01:05:52,265
plan for the flood plan over there? And do we get those answers tonight or

878
01:05:52,545 --> 01:05:56,525
do we get his contact information? I just kind of wanna understand how we

879
01:05:56,685 --> 01:06:00,585
get feedback and responses from the questions that are being asked. No, that's a great, that's

880
01:06:01,005 --> 01:06:04,845
a great question. Uh, we, he will answer the questions as regard to site

881
01:06:05,155 --> 01:06:08,925
plan, uh, the drainage and, uh, road construction

882
01:06:09,245 --> 01:06:12,785
will be in the, uh, plat. And, uh,

883
01:06:13,325 --> 01:06:17,005
I don't, keith will you answer any, uh, drainage,

884
01:06:17,575 --> 01:06:21,225
flood plan, flood floodplain, or any

885
01:06:21,675 --> 01:06:25,365
that I can't answer that. Uh, they will be required to meet everything

886
01:06:25,685 --> 01:06:29,525
in title 23 and which requires that there's no rise in

887
01:06:29,725 --> 01:06:33,675
the flood plain. If they cannot achieve the no rise in the flood plain, then

888
01:06:33,965 --> 01:06:37,845
they would've to go before the stormwater drainage advisory board and the city

889
01:06:38,045 --> 01:06:42,005
council for a variance. And that's why I put the note in the

890
01:06:42,165 --> 01:06:45,405
staff report, because like I said, at the point we have not received,

891
01:06:47,545 --> 01:06:49,445
you're gonna have to repeat everything .

892
01:06:52,315 --> 01:06:56,205
okay. If, if you could address, uh, just, uh, not only their site

893
01:06:56,485 --> 01:07:00,405
plan, but, uh, any, uh, briefly the, the surrounding area as far

894
01:07:00,565 --> 01:07:04,345
as any, uh, maintenance there with the,

895
01:07:04,585 --> 01:07:05,085
uh, with the drainage.

896
01:07:09,305 --> 01:07:13,225
he was talking about the culvert and the other, other parts of cove and, and

897
01:07:13,445 --> 01:07:16,825
coltrane. Yeah. I, yes. Like to respond to that. Okay. Uh,

898
01:07:18,825 --> 01:07:22,765
on the culverts under coltrane, they did not work out. They were actually rusted

899
01:07:23,165 --> 01:07:27,025
out. They were metal pipes. They rusted out due to age, and that's why the city had

900
01:07:27,245 --> 01:07:31,245
to replace the culverts under coltrane. It wasn't because they were washed out, it

901
01:07:31,445 --> 01:07:35,045
was just simply age and they rusted out and or failed.

902
01:07:35,835 --> 01:07:39,665
okay. Uh, sorry. Uh, if you could respond to the, uh, um,

903
01:07:40,305 --> 01:07:44,285
the drainage on the site. Yeah. Um, they'll have to meet

904
01:07:44,485 --> 01:07:48,275
title 23. The, uh, developed flow will have to be less

905
01:07:48,565 --> 01:07:52,525
than or equal to distort flow from the property. So they are doing detention. They do have detention

906
01:07:53,165 --> 01:07:57,005
proposed on the site. We have reviewed that they meet our title 23

907
01:07:57,525 --> 01:08:01,245
requirements with their detention. I'm sorry to interrupt. Where is that shown on the flat,

908
01:08:05,615 --> 01:08:09,475
um, parking lot. It, it's

909
01:08:09,755 --> 01:08:12,515
underground in the parking lot, but am I still not working?

910
01:08:15,225 --> 01:08:19,205
is your parking lot permeable pavement or how you guys do detention on the

911
01:08:19,245 --> 01:08:21,565
ground? Are you doing storm sewer inlets and it's going down below

912
01:08:24,865 --> 01:08:25,085
the detention?

913
01:08:29,465 --> 01:08:30,205
we have a laser point,

914
01:08:37,515 --> 01:08:41,285
correct me if I'm wrong. Yeah, you're honor, but it's, the detention is right here under

915
01:08:41,525 --> 01:08:45,285
the parking lot, and I, they do not have

916
01:08:46,015 --> 01:08:49,885
impervious pavement proposed, but it, they do have inlets that'll put the

917
01:08:50,045 --> 01:08:53,965
water into the detention, and so they will, they, the detention

918
01:08:54,385 --> 01:08:58,075
as designed is meeting our title 23 requirements. So their discharge

919
01:08:58,785 --> 01:09:01,995
or developed discharge is less than or equal to the historic discharge.

920
01:09:03,155 --> 01:09:06,735
okay. Uh, going back to the flood plain,

921
01:09:08,865 --> 01:09:12,605
the city of edmond title 23 requires no rise in the floodplain without

922
01:09:12,965 --> 01:09:16,765
a variance. Uh, they have, they're working on it.

923
01:09:17,045 --> 01:09:20,925
I think they may have got it done, but they haven't submitted the flood study for, uh, to

924
01:09:21,125 --> 01:09:25,125
us on this for the drive location. And that's why I

925
01:09:25,245 --> 01:09:28,985
put in the staff report what we put in that, uh, if

926
01:09:29,525 --> 01:09:33,375
they can't get a noris, then they'd have to go before swab and the stormwater

927
01:09:34,045 --> 01:09:36,605
drainage advisory board and council for a variance.

928
01:09:38,145 --> 01:09:41,965
and if they couldn't get the variance, if they can't meet the noris, then they'd

929
01:09:42,245 --> 01:09:45,975
have to look at moving the drive to the north. So that, that's why we put that in there. We'll

930
01:09:46,325 --> 01:09:50,325
be looking at it along with the plating platting process for the

931
01:09:50,445 --> 01:09:54,285
widening of the road. Like I said, they've both submitted the traffic ana

932
01:09:54,555 --> 01:09:58,045
traffic impala analysis, and we're looking at that, at what's going to be required

933
01:09:58,825 --> 01:10:02,795
for their road widening and for the road improvements. Okay.

934
01:10:03,255 --> 01:10:07,135
thank you. Thank you. Okay. Thank you for your time. Thank

935
01:10:07,485 --> 01:10:09,605
you, ma'am. Yes, sir. I'll go right after barry.

936
01:10:11,865 --> 01:10:12,965
oh, how about the guy behind you?

937
01:10:22,515 --> 01:10:26,225
anthony tompkins in the windmill estates. And,

938
01:10:26,585 --> 01:10:30,315
uh, I just wanted to reiterate that, uh, they

939
01:10:30,605 --> 01:10:34,055
pretty much covered everything that I wanted to say, but I did have, uh, additional

940
01:10:34,725 --> 01:10:38,365
concern, uh, whether or not there was an environmental study done on this,

941
01:10:38,985 --> 01:10:42,745
the displacement of deer and other animals that may be, um,

942
01:10:43,725 --> 01:10:47,685
affected by these changes. Um, as you know, we have a lot of

943
01:10:47,885 --> 01:10:51,885
that kind of activity out in that part of edmond

944
01:10:52,345 --> 01:10:56,315
up in north central edmond. And, uh, it just, it's

945
01:10:56,605 --> 01:11:00,325
getting worse. I mean, as far as the safety factor, and I know that this gentleman

946
01:11:00,725 --> 01:11:04,445
here was talking about the safety factor, but we've had a lot of cars

947
01:11:04,875 --> 01:11:08,045
that have impacts with these deer late at night.

948
01:11:09,025 --> 01:11:12,675
and, uh, that's just another aspect is that we're chasing them

949
01:11:13,145 --> 01:11:16,765
out of their domain and taking it as our own. Thank you.

950
01:11:17,155 --> 01:11:20,905
okay. Thank you. Yes, sir. Go ahead, barry. Yes.

951
01:11:21,185 --> 01:11:24,565
yes. That's your name. Thank you. Good evening.

952
01:11:25,305 --> 01:11:29,305
thanks for your time. I'll be brief. Um, my name's barry black. I'm

953
01:11:29,525 --> 01:11:33,485
the ashford oaks homeowners association president representing 218 houses.

954
01:11:33,985 --> 01:11:37,205
was asked by the board to speak tonight, so maybe we didn't have 218

955
01:11:38,015 --> 01:11:41,795
homeowners in line. Um, we appreciate that. As david said, this

956
01:11:42,085 --> 01:11:45,845
has been litigated since 1990. Uh, it's the same 44,000 square

957
01:11:46,165 --> 01:11:49,785
foot grocery store, um, that the

958
01:11:50,405 --> 01:11:54,225
pud that governs this site is, is now 35 years old. Uh,

959
01:11:54,885 --> 01:11:58,645
edmond has changed cove and coltrane has changed. Uh, the city itself

960
01:11:58,985 --> 01:12:02,525
has changed, uh, since 1990 when it was approved. Uh, the city retains

961
01:12:03,005 --> 01:12:06,885
the right to determine how traffic is gonna flow across the city,

962
01:12:07,545 --> 01:12:11,325
and that's what I wanted to touch on. Uh, there's been no community connection meeting.

963
01:12:11,625 --> 01:12:15,465
uh, there's not one required, but there are a lot of things the city doesn't know and

964
01:12:15,685 --> 01:12:19,565
the residents don't know. Uh, ash oaks abuts the sensitive

965
01:12:19,765 --> 01:12:22,845
border to the west, the the entire thing to, to the west.

966
01:12:23,865 --> 01:12:27,765
is this gonna be open 24 hours? We don't know. Are there

967
01:12:27,925 --> 01:12:31,715
outside speakers? There is prohibited in the pud, but they were in the last plan.

968
01:12:32,705 --> 01:12:36,605
uh, will there be drone deliveries as was discussed last time? Will they be flying

969
01:12:36,885 --> 01:12:40,565
over this home surrounding, we don't know. Will this be an online

970
01:12:40,925 --> 01:12:44,405
fulfillment center, which increases traffic count beyond that of a regular,

971
01:12:45,025 --> 01:12:48,845
uh, walmart, uh, neighborhood market? How many semi trucks

972
01:12:49,315 --> 01:12:53,045
will be turning into and out of the site every day? What will those trucks

973
01:12:53,345 --> 01:12:57,325
do to traffic at this failing intersection? The last, uh, level of service

974
01:12:57,745 --> 01:13:00,875
for the traffic study for that intersection was f failing

975
01:13:02,105 --> 01:13:05,725
during november, 2014. Uh, I've been to most every one of these meetings

976
01:13:06,245 --> 01:13:10,225
since 1990, as have many of the people in this room. Uh,

977
01:13:10,465 --> 01:13:14,005
the then city engineer said there simply isn't enough room at this intersection

978
01:13:14,545 --> 01:13:18,445
to have sufficient turn bays acceleration deceleration, and the ability to

979
01:13:18,645 --> 01:13:22,405
accommodate edmond's future traffic. He said the

980
01:13:22,685 --> 01:13:26,665
intersection is most challenging because of the floodplain, the utility requirements, and

981
01:13:26,905 --> 01:13:30,605
its narrow width. This intersection is unique to any across

982
01:13:31,275 --> 01:13:35,005
cove. Page six of edmond's traffic control management policy

983
01:13:35,545 --> 01:13:39,155
adopts the principles of the institute of transportation engineers. It's

984
01:13:39,805 --> 01:13:43,485
specifically addresses land use. It says, I'll quote planners

985
01:13:44,045 --> 01:13:48,005
who have usually focused on land use will find the need to pay closer attention to the

986
01:13:48,165 --> 01:13:52,045
impacts of traffic for their work. That's the case here.

987
01:13:52,345 --> 01:13:56,125
the coroner is zoned for a grocery store, but the city

988
01:13:56,465 --> 01:13:59,685
has to, uh, account for the impact the traffic will have.

989
01:14:00,585 --> 01:14:04,305
uh, the city's master transportation plan is already being implemented across

990
01:14:05,085 --> 01:14:08,525
edmond cobell is unique. It's been designated as a major arterial.

991
01:14:09,785 --> 01:14:13,085
the city spent $281,000 in 2007

992
01:14:13,985 --> 01:14:17,605
to develop this master transportation plan. It was designed to be 25

993
01:14:18,175 --> 01:14:21,795
years. Looking forward for a long-term vision, there's

994
01:14:22,325 --> 01:14:26,165
a table found on 2.9 dash 2.2 that specifically

995
01:14:26,405 --> 01:14:30,005
addresses traffic on cove for this one mile strip

996
01:14:30,585 --> 01:14:34,325
bryant the coltrane. In 2007, it revealed traffic annual

997
01:14:35,165 --> 01:14:38,935
increase for that one mile was 16.9%. Those

998
01:14:39,285 --> 01:14:42,785
figures were updated by the city in 2015 in its intersection. Traffic report

999
01:14:43,415 --> 01:14:46,845
found on the website, it determined traffic counts on cove and coltrane

1000
01:14:47,535 --> 01:14:51,525
junks 24% from two, uh, 2009 to

1001
01:14:51,685 --> 01:14:55,245
2015. That was a decade ago. Traffic's only gotten worse

1002
01:14:56,275 --> 01:15:00,125
just 12 months ago. In june of 2024, the city

1003
01:15:00,605 --> 01:15:04,485
engineer stated in the public go bond project proposal that traffic through this

1004
01:15:04,645 --> 01:15:08,285
intersection had increased by 100% from 2014

1005
01:15:08,885 --> 01:15:11,685
to 2022 with a traffic count of 24,400

1006
01:15:13,755 --> 01:15:17,405
cars traveling through the intersection daily. Those are the city's on figures.

1007
01:15:18,315 --> 01:15:22,285
what will this proposed plan do to the intersection? We don't know? How can we approve

1008
01:15:22,775 --> 01:15:26,325
their plan before we know what it's gonna do to this unique and critical intersection?

1009
01:15:28,105 --> 01:15:32,005
we learned in the past litigation that things were promised that were never

1010
01:15:32,405 --> 01:15:36,365
provided, never came to fruition. So I believe the city and the residents

1011
01:15:36,645 --> 01:15:40,395
of edmond need to know what this plan will do before it's

1012
01:15:40,965 --> 01:15:44,745
approved. Uh, in 2015, this, uh, city's strategic plan set

1013
01:15:45,005 --> 01:15:48,875
a benchmark, and the benchmark was to pursue engineering of long

1014
01:15:49,165 --> 01:15:53,125
range transportation improvements that supports the master transportation

1015
01:15:53,825 --> 01:15:57,805
plan's goal for long-term transportation improvement. But this project

1016
01:15:58,155 --> 01:16:02,005
creates immediate and long-term traffic problems that can't be undone once it's

1017
01:16:02,365 --> 01:16:06,185
approved. The city's already spent tens of millions of dollars to

1018
01:16:06,405 --> 01:16:10,395
strategically improve traffic flow across edmond by designing, uh, designating cove

1019
01:16:10,745 --> 01:16:14,555
as a major arterial. The master transportation plan

1020
01:16:15,715 --> 01:16:19,565
defines what a major arterial is. It's is a four-lane through

1021
01:16:19,885 --> 01:16:23,765
road with raised medians to prevent left hand turns.

1022
01:16:24,665 --> 01:16:28,125
that's the object. Um, christie, can we do image one please?

1023
01:16:31,185 --> 01:16:35,165
so the city's plan is not aspirational. It's already been implemented from

1024
01:16:35,365 --> 01:16:39,365
I 35 to fairfax estates to the east. This is covell, and

1025
01:16:39,445 --> 01:16:43,285
sooner it's just one mile east of the intersection, you see four lanes

1026
01:16:43,605 --> 01:16:47,325
for through traffic and an unbroken median to prevent turning vehicles.

1027
01:16:48,705 --> 01:16:52,325
the city's master transportation plan is being successfully implemented at the new multi-use

1028
01:16:52,875 --> 01:16:56,765
cove crossing development. It has a four lane through lane

1029
01:16:57,005 --> 01:17:00,325
with raised medians, but there's a traffic light to manage traffic

1030
01:17:01,085 --> 01:17:04,685
ingress and egress from that multi-use facility. Their entryway

1031
01:17:05,385 --> 01:17:09,245
is four lanes, not the single lane each way that walmart is proposing

1032
01:17:09,865 --> 01:17:12,445
on cove. Christie, can we see two, please?

1033
01:17:15,105 --> 01:17:18,445
so image two is covell and kelly. The master transportation

1034
01:17:19,155 --> 01:17:22,845
plan has implemented there, have been implemented there from mitch park to just west of

1035
01:17:23,245 --> 01:17:26,925
broadway. That is the plan four through lanes unbroken medians

1036
01:17:27,625 --> 01:17:31,165
to prevent left hand turns. Vehicles can move across edmond efficiently.

1037
01:17:31,705 --> 01:17:35,325
that's the reason we're developing this to the cost of millions and millions of dollars.

1038
01:17:36,505 --> 01:17:40,365
we built a railroad truss over the four lanes of cove, so traffic could

1039
01:17:40,685 --> 01:17:44,555
efficiently move from east to west and west to east. This four

1040
01:17:44,845 --> 01:17:48,605
lane that's been built from the east and the west is designed to

1041
01:17:49,045 --> 01:17:52,795
converge at cove and coltrane. It's been estimated by the city that

1042
01:17:53,085 --> 01:17:56,635
the improvements required will cost an excess of $45 million because

1043
01:17:57,125 --> 01:18:01,125
of the unique, uh, topography, the narrow width, the flood plain,

1044
01:18:02,075 --> 01:18:05,665
that big gas exchange on the southwest, uh, corner.

1045
01:18:06,385 --> 01:18:10,285
one oak is here tonight. Uh, so the,

1046
01:18:10,505 --> 01:18:14,045
the plan itself is not historic. In june of 24,

1047
01:18:14,545 --> 01:18:18,445
uh, 2024, about 12 months ago, the city engineer confirmed in the go

1048
01:18:18,605 --> 01:18:21,485
bond proposal that cove is a major transportation

1049
01:18:23,005 --> 01:18:27,005
thoroughfare. Speaking specifically of the plan for cowell and coltrane, the city

1050
01:18:27,485 --> 01:18:31,285
engineer wrote in that public record, and I'll quote, the project will provide

1051
01:18:31,785 --> 01:18:35,725
two through lanes, um, medians, left turn lanes, and

1052
01:18:36,125 --> 01:18:39,685
possibly right turn lanes at the signaled intersection. That's cowell and coltrane.

1053
01:18:40,665 --> 01:18:44,615
the engineer also said the project limits begin 3,200

1054
01:18:46,075 --> 01:18:49,895
feet west of coltrane on covet image.

1055
01:18:50,245 --> 01:18:53,885
three, please, christy. The city's plan,

1056
01:18:54,295 --> 01:18:58,275
which has already been implemented to, is to begin improvements. 3,200 feet

1057
01:18:58,635 --> 01:19:02,525
west of coltrane. That will be nullified if walmart has a private left

1058
01:19:02,805 --> 01:19:06,605
turn lane in the middle of the road and a private driveway less than 650 feet

1059
01:19:06,885 --> 01:19:10,645
from the intersection. The proposed walmart plan will deny the city its ability

1060
01:19:10,905 --> 01:19:14,555
to solve the congestion at coville and coltrane as outlined in the master transportation plan.

1061
01:19:15,535 --> 01:19:18,845
their plan takes that limited space that our engineers have discussed

1062
01:19:19,745 --> 01:19:23,605
and puts in a left turn lane in the middle of the road that benefits

1063
01:19:23,995 --> 01:19:27,865
only walmart, not the citizens' bed. It, it will, uh, be

1064
01:19:28,145 --> 01:19:31,635
put in at the expense of the city's plan. Ma'am, can we have number four?

1065
01:19:33,485 --> 01:19:37,385
I asked an architect to review the plan. Their plan is here in black. The

1066
01:19:37,605 --> 01:19:41,285
architect's notes are in red, the left turn lane that walmarts

1067
01:19:41,845 --> 01:19:45,475
wants in, uh, the center of cove. That limited stretch

1068
01:19:46,355 --> 01:19:49,515
will accommodate about eight vehicles. You'll see 'em there as little yellow squares.

1069
01:19:50,585 --> 01:19:54,385
any other vehicles will be backed up into eastbound traffic at the bottom of

1070
01:19:54,605 --> 01:19:58,565
a blind hill. The left turn lane is in direct conflict with the

1071
01:19:58,645 --> 01:20:02,555
master transportation plan, which calls for an unbroken median to avoid left

1072
01:20:02,845 --> 01:20:06,765
hand turns. Their plan leaves westbound, covell as a one lane through

1073
01:20:07,125 --> 01:20:10,885
road. It adds untold number of semis and customer traffic turning

1074
01:20:11,345 --> 01:20:15,285
in. How many will that be? We don't know. We don't know. 'cause nobody's

1075
01:20:15,765 --> 01:20:19,245
seen the traffic impact. So how can we approve a plan if we don't know what's gonna happen?

1076
01:20:20,375 --> 01:20:24,325
their plan has no raised medians, just striping. So vehicles

1077
01:20:24,885 --> 01:20:28,605
you'll see in the red arrows can turn left across westbound traffic

1078
01:20:29,105 --> 01:20:32,885
to go east on covel and left hand turns are actually encouraged

1079
01:20:33,345 --> 01:20:36,355
by this left turn lane, which is prohibited by the master transportation plan.

1080
01:20:37,385 --> 01:20:41,045
the plan should be denied because the master transportation plan, which has already been implemented

1081
01:20:41,485 --> 01:20:45,345
across cove, a great expense states an unbroken median is

1082
01:20:45,885 --> 01:20:49,685
absolutely necessary to keep through traffic moving and prevent left turns.

1083
01:20:51,255 --> 01:20:54,605
there are no private curb cuts for other businesses along the cove improvement.

1084
01:20:57,065 --> 01:21:00,685
you, you can't turn into uptown grocery, you can't turn into the us post office without

1085
01:21:01,205 --> 01:21:05,125
a feeder road. The master transportation plan had the foresight to address

1086
01:21:05,505 --> 01:21:09,485
new construction, which is what we're discussing here. Section 5.2 states

1087
01:21:09,725 --> 01:21:13,725
that eliminating curb cuts for this driveway cost the city nothing

1088
01:21:14,255 --> 01:21:18,245
while allowing a four-lane road to function like a six lane road disallowing. This

1089
01:21:18,805 --> 01:21:22,765
driveway will increase road capacity by 50%, but cost the citizens of

1090
01:21:23,085 --> 01:21:26,885
edmond nothing. Ingress and egress should promote efficient, uh, vehicular

1091
01:21:27,165 --> 01:21:31,045
circulation. And their plan does not do that. The proposed entrance

1092
01:21:31,205 --> 01:21:35,085
on cove should be rejected as well as the left-hand turn lane. That section 5.2

1093
01:21:35,725 --> 01:21:39,225
goes on to state that denying commercial drive driveways along cove is

1094
01:21:39,955 --> 01:21:43,695
extremely important in order to manage traffic congestion

1095
01:21:45,065 --> 01:21:48,925
and promote traffic flow. It states that quote, congestion will

1096
01:21:49,125 --> 01:21:52,925
be reduced to a greater extent by access management than by widening

1097
01:21:53,325 --> 01:21:57,195
the road. We don't have to make the road wider if we limit that

1098
01:21:57,485 --> 01:22:00,475
access. Last image is, uh, image number five.

1099
01:22:01,765 --> 01:22:05,405
I live close enough to that intersection to hear the sirens from fire station five.

1100
01:22:06,035 --> 01:22:09,885
okay. Can I interrupt you just a little bit, barry? Uh, I, I appreciate

1101
01:22:10,325 --> 01:22:13,905
all the comments about traffic, but that's not what we're talking about. The, that's

1102
01:22:14,465 --> 01:22:18,265
the site plan and, uh, I know that, uh, the,

1103
01:22:19,385 --> 01:22:22,985
the drainage and the, and the road construction, all that is, is

1104
01:22:23,445 --> 01:22:27,445
surrounding the site plan, but it has nothing to do with the site plan. So if you could

1105
01:22:27,605 --> 01:22:31,355
make sure that your comments are pointed to the site plan sure. In that regard. Sure.

1106
01:22:31,665 --> 01:22:35,525
the ingress and egress, as mr. Chapman mentioned, is part

1107
01:22:35,685 --> 01:22:39,085
of the site plan at 650 feet from a two lane road,

1108
01:22:39,825 --> 01:22:43,765
uh, that the city, uh, intends to widen. Uh, and I believe regardless

1109
01:22:43,965 --> 01:22:47,315
of what happened in 1990 for an individual pud, the city retains

1110
01:22:48,025 --> 01:22:51,715
its right to develop the infrastructure that, uh, would be impeded

1111
01:22:52,305 --> 01:22:56,085
by this construction. Okay. Alright. Thank you very much. Thank you very much.

1112
01:23:01,985 --> 01:23:03,525
yes, sir. Go ahead.

1113
01:23:10,915 --> 01:23:14,765
matt farley 27 0 8 ashbrook place. I believe there's

1114
01:23:15,045 --> 01:23:18,885
a photo in there from my house that directly looks into the

1115
01:23:19,165 --> 01:23:23,045
property. Farley bedroom. There we go. Uh, that's my house. That's

1116
01:23:23,605 --> 01:23:27,385
where I live. Uh, that is the second story, uh, view from my

1117
01:23:27,715 --> 01:23:31,635
5-year-old son's bedroom. It looks directly onto the proposed site.

1118
01:23:32,625 --> 01:23:36,005
um, I'm glad that our friend brought up property rights because

1119
01:23:36,805 --> 01:23:40,665
I think that that comes very relevant based on the location of my house as

1120
01:23:40,885 --> 01:23:44,685
well as my neighbors. Um, so I'll skip a lot of what's

1121
01:23:45,085 --> 01:23:48,905
already been discussed today and just talk about some of the property, right, uh,

1122
01:23:49,135 --> 01:23:53,105
rules that I think are in place to help property owners like myself. Um,

1123
01:23:54,005 --> 01:23:58,005
specifically there are several municipal codes that I feel like would be violated, uh, if this

1124
01:23:58,165 --> 01:24:01,845
pre-proposal were to move forward. Uh, certainly the tree preservation

1125
01:24:02,365 --> 01:24:06,325
requirements. Uh, municipal code 23.2 explicitly states that all

1126
01:24:06,445 --> 01:24:10,285
developments shall be designed to minimize the removal of existing trees in the city. Council's

1127
01:24:10,925 --> 01:24:14,925
strategic plan from 2014, which I also believe should be

1128
01:24:15,045 --> 01:24:18,765
taken as precedent over the 1990 pod, uh, because

1129
01:24:19,385 --> 01:24:22,785
of its relevancy, uh, reinforces the city's intent to preserve, uh,

1130
01:24:23,445 --> 01:24:27,425
existing trees. I'll also reiterate, and I know that this was discussed maybe as not

1131
01:24:27,645 --> 01:24:31,545
as much of a point, but the architectural consistency requirement, um,

1132
01:24:32,085 --> 01:24:36,045
I do feel like that was brushed off a little bit. We do have some examples though, of what that could look

1133
01:24:36,245 --> 01:24:39,525
like. Uh, there is a commercial structure, the one nearest to us at the fairfax

1134
01:24:40,605 --> 01:24:44,335
business park. Uh, there are some ideas of what architectural similarity

1135
01:24:45,025 --> 01:24:48,705
and consistency actually looks like. We don't have to speculate, um,

1136
01:24:49,625 --> 01:24:53,285
as some people here have today. Uh, this, the nearest commercial

1137
01:24:53,885 --> 01:24:57,445
structure at the fairfax business park to half mile east, where all buildings feature brick

1138
01:24:57,945 --> 01:25:01,925
and stone construction with pitched roofs. It is architecturally consistent with

1139
01:25:02,125 --> 01:25:06,095
its neighbors. Um, again, you're looking at my house. Uh, that's the second story.

1140
01:25:07,055 --> 01:25:11,005
there are also rules that protect flat roof visibility, and I

1141
01:25:11,125 --> 01:25:14,925
do believe that this would, uh, constitute a violation. Uh, title 22,

1142
01:25:15,555 --> 01:25:19,415
page 110. Section g one, uh, is very clear. Flat roofs

1143
01:25:19,775 --> 01:25:23,725
shall not be visible from adjacent properties. That's my

1144
01:25:23,845 --> 01:25:27,645
house. Um, from my two story home, I will have a direct view of the structure's, flat roof

1145
01:25:27,885 --> 01:25:31,685
clear violation municipal code. Furthermore, title 22, page 92 states that

1146
01:25:32,085 --> 01:25:35,005
buildings designed shall consider perspective from higher areas.

1147
01:25:36,625 --> 01:25:40,145
any new construction adjacent to preexisting roof, uh,

1148
01:25:40,685 --> 01:25:44,445
structures shall make use of all architectural treatments of all sides to achieve

1149
01:25:44,725 --> 01:25:48,205
compatibility with the surrounding area. This proposal fails both requirements.

1150
01:25:49,665 --> 01:25:53,445
uh, finally, uh, we did mention light a little bit earlier. Again, I'm gonna take it from the perspective

1151
01:25:53,945 --> 01:25:57,805
of my five-year-old's room. Uh, lighting regulations are specifically intended

1152
01:25:57,985 --> 01:26:01,845
to protect property values. Again, I love that we got to start

1153
01:26:02,045 --> 01:26:06,045
this with property rights because there are a lot of rules in edmond

1154
01:26:06,205 --> 01:26:09,965
that help protect homes like myself. Uh, the general welfare by controlling

1155
01:26:10,405 --> 01:26:13,285
glare and spill spillover light. Section 22.12

1156
01:26:15,405 --> 01:26:19,325
a prohibits lights, which substantially interfere with the use or enjoyment

1157
01:26:19,765 --> 01:26:23,645
of the property. As a homeowner whose property directs faculty to the site,

1158
01:26:24,265 --> 01:26:28,115
any commercial lighting, and I think you guys have probably been pretty familiar with

1159
01:26:28,405 --> 01:26:32,385
driving through a walmart parking lot for safety reasons, those things are

1160
01:26:32,745 --> 01:26:36,685
lit up. Uh, the proposal provides no lighting plan that conforms to

1161
01:26:36,845 --> 01:26:40,585
these protective mandates. Protective meaning my house. Uh,

1162
01:26:40,865 --> 01:26:44,575
it is your authority, uh, to impose additional protections. Uh, admin

1163
01:26:44,925 --> 01:26:48,675
title 22 gives you explicit authority that directs relevant that

1164
01:26:48,965 --> 01:26:52,885
is directly relevant here. Page one 10, section eight empowers you

1165
01:26:53,045 --> 01:26:56,925
to impose supplemental additional conditions beyond whatever the pod may

1166
01:26:57,085 --> 01:27:00,885
require at sensitive borders. I think that's a very

1167
01:27:01,245 --> 01:27:04,525
sensitive border, um, to minimize adverse impacts to residential

1168
01:27:05,405 --> 01:27:09,325
property. Uh, I obviously am giving you a really great example from my

1169
01:27:09,445 --> 01:27:13,005
home. Item 12 allows you to require preservation and natural

1170
01:27:13,605 --> 01:27:16,685
features, adjacents to residential uses, including tree preservation.

1171
01:27:17,785 --> 01:27:21,685
uh, where there are substantial groups of trees, it's a lot more than just like a beautiful

1172
01:27:22,005 --> 01:27:25,965
view, which obviously we enjoy, um, that field. Uh, in the

1173
01:27:26,085 --> 01:27:29,805
middle of that, it represents a pretty big part of our community and our neighborhood as well.

1174
01:27:30,195 --> 01:27:34,185
that is the walking trail that goes around our neighborhood. That is the

1175
01:27:34,405 --> 01:27:38,285
field that we are having our son's soccer team in. It is a field

1176
01:27:38,445 --> 01:27:41,965
that we see dogs and our, you know, our, our neighborhood, um, utilizes

1177
01:27:42,525 --> 01:27:46,405
quite well. So it's not just my individual property, but the actual asset that's owned

1178
01:27:46,585 --> 01:27:49,825
by ashford oaks as well. It's gonna be interfered with. Um, so

1179
01:27:51,635 --> 01:27:55,275
I'll get back to my point and wrap up. Uh, commissioners. I want you to understand that

1180
01:27:55,925 --> 01:27:59,885
approval of this proposal, what it means for my family from my back door. Instead of

1181
01:28:00,005 --> 01:28:03,915
seeing trees in open space, we'll see a massive flat roofed commercial building instead

1182
01:28:04,405 --> 01:28:07,805
of a peaceful residential, uh, and residential quiet, your truck deliveries,

1183
01:28:08,485 --> 01:28:12,075
consumer traffic and consumer operations, instead

1184
01:28:12,565 --> 01:28:16,525
of a dark night suitable for my family of commercial lights streaming into my

1185
01:28:16,645 --> 01:28:20,545
home, a six foot fence and a row of saplings proposed as

1186
01:28:20,765 --> 01:28:24,315
the screening is completely inadequate for the two story home that I own. This

1187
01:28:24,925 --> 01:28:28,925
represents a fundamental failure to protect existing residential property as required by the current

1188
01:28:29,275 --> 01:28:33,245
municipal code. So I urge you to deny this

1189
01:28:33,605 --> 01:28:37,185
proposal and require any future development to fully comply

1190
01:28:37,715 --> 01:28:41,505
with current edmond municipal standards. My family, my

1191
01:28:41,925 --> 01:28:45,815
neighbors, would deserve protection from with these codes. As a homeowner who's

1192
01:28:46,165 --> 01:28:50,105
most, probably most directly impacted by this proposal, uh,

1193
01:28:50,505 --> 01:28:54,285
I'm asking to uphold the standards that edmund has established to protect

1194
01:28:55,115 --> 01:28:58,805
residential property rights. Thank you very much. Okay, thank you. My compliments

1195
01:28:59,285 --> 01:29:02,675
to your five-year-old photography skills. . Alright.

1196
01:29:03,465 --> 01:29:05,415
yes, ma'am. Yes. Sorry.

1197
01:29:10,375 --> 01:29:14,245
thank you. Um, my name's lydia lee. I live on walnut cove here

1198
01:29:14,485 --> 01:29:18,205
in edmond. Um, one of the

1199
01:29:18,505 --> 01:29:22,225
issues that has been presented to you tonight is that, um,

1200
01:29:22,995 --> 01:29:26,755
this development is compatible with the surrounding area.

1201
01:29:27,235 --> 01:29:31,125
that was the statement that the developer, um, his representative

1202
01:29:31,915 --> 01:29:35,865
made. But I want to refer you back to the phrase

1203
01:29:36,355 --> 01:29:39,885
that mr. Cher referred to in the pud

1204
01:29:40,865 --> 01:29:44,755
design statement, which is what governs this site plan.

1205
01:29:45,705 --> 01:29:49,375
and it says, the concept is to develop this tract

1206
01:29:50,345 --> 01:29:54,275
in a manner and architectural style that

1207
01:29:54,565 --> 01:29:58,285
will be consistent with the surrounding area,

1208
01:29:59,065 --> 01:30:03,005
not compatible consistent. That is

1209
01:30:03,205 --> 01:30:07,185
defined as acting or done in the

1210
01:30:07,675 --> 01:30:11,625
same way. There are no ugly

1211
01:30:12,225 --> 01:30:16,225
gray boxes in the surrounding area. This

1212
01:30:16,535 --> 01:30:20,095
is absolutely not compatible with the

1213
01:30:20,555 --> 01:30:24,055
surrounding area. That issue in and of itself

1214
01:30:25,085 --> 01:30:28,545
gives this planning commission the grounds to deny

1215
01:30:29,265 --> 01:30:33,025
this because it's their pud. They created

1216
01:30:33,695 --> 01:30:37,365
the design statement and they used the word consistent

1217
01:30:38,305 --> 01:30:41,545
with, and they used the, the term architectural

1218
01:30:42,845 --> 01:30:46,075
style. That issue gives you the grounds

1219
01:30:46,855 --> 01:30:50,575
to deny this. The developer's representative wanted

1220
01:30:50,995 --> 01:30:54,915
to tell you that your job here tonight is just to rubber

1221
01:30:55,245 --> 01:30:58,875
stamp this. And I'm telling you that your job here tonight

1222
01:30:59,695 --> 01:31:03,155
is to protect the surrounding neighborhoods and the surrounding

1223
01:31:03,915 --> 01:31:07,275
property owners because this is absolutely not consistent,

1224
01:31:08,095 --> 01:31:11,835
and we ask you to deny this. Okay, thanks. Yes, sir.

1225
01:31:13,895 --> 01:31:17,715
uh, uh, my name is chris coty, 2 9 0 1 as brick

1226
01:31:17,955 --> 01:31:21,555
place live in the neighborhood adjacent to the subject property. I'm gonna just quickly

1227
01:31:21,975 --> 01:31:25,915
add in addition to what everyone has cited, it was also said this evening, can we

1228
01:31:26,035 --> 01:31:29,755
pull up a, the picture of the walmart, the front elevation,

1229
01:31:34,895 --> 01:31:38,835
in addition to the comment, uh, in which it was correctly highlighted. And the difference between what

1230
01:31:39,075 --> 01:31:41,915
was said tonight is compatible with actually the pud says to be consistent.

1231
01:31:43,235 --> 01:31:46,985
a comment was also made, um, by the, uh, individuals

1232
01:31:47,675 --> 01:31:51,365
that there's nothing stopping someone from painting their

1233
01:31:51,715 --> 01:31:55,475
house that color. Um, there is,

1234
01:31:56,455 --> 01:32:00,245
um, there is, and in our neighborhood, I am bound by the

1235
01:32:00,565 --> 01:32:04,485
covenants of the pud and the hoa. If I did such a thing, I would be

1236
01:32:04,605 --> 01:32:07,645
in violation of the architectural, um, requirements

1237
01:32:08,785 --> 01:32:12,245
of our neighborhood. I would be asked kindly to repaint my home,

1238
01:32:12,985 --> 01:32:16,515
and if I didn't, I would then be sued. There

1239
01:32:17,125 --> 01:32:21,015
are many restrictions in our neighborhood that

1240
01:32:21,305 --> 01:32:25,205
govern the, uh, uh, compatibility of

1241
01:32:25,425 --> 01:32:29,365
the area. But, but again, more importantly, the consistency. So

1242
01:32:29,985 --> 01:32:33,785
I want to be clear to, to, um, the commission that, uh, that,

1243
01:32:34,165 --> 01:32:38,105
uh, as presented, um, a reasonable

1244
01:32:38,745 --> 01:32:42,695
person, I believe would not deem this as consistent with

1245
01:32:42,985 --> 01:32:46,945
the area. And I respectfully ask for your, uh, no vote for the

1246
01:32:47,065 --> 01:32:50,865
subject proposal. Thank you. Okay, thanks. Yes, ma'am. Right,

1247
01:32:51,275 --> 01:32:52,405
right behind. Yes.

1248
01:32:57,485 --> 01:33:01,305
my name is mary ann sontag and I live at 28 17 spyglass

1249
01:33:01,825 --> 01:33:03,545
hill road in fairfax subdivision.

1250
01:33:06,175 --> 01:33:10,065
there's been a lot of information about that. This property was

1251
01:33:10,475 --> 01:33:13,185
zoned for grocery in 1990.

1252
01:33:14,655 --> 01:33:18,575
that was 35 years ago. Since then,

1253
01:33:19,645 --> 01:33:23,585
we have not a food desert, but a food

1254
01:33:24,185 --> 01:33:27,805
plethora. Walmart neighborhood market. Second

1255
01:33:28,225 --> 01:33:31,615
avenue. It's second street, walmart, supercenter

1256
01:33:32,485 --> 01:33:35,285
on I 35, crest fresh market,

1257
01:33:36,965 --> 01:33:40,375
uptown grocery target, which has food,

1258
01:33:41,545 --> 01:33:45,485
homeland, brahms market. Excuse me. Miss, uh,

1259
01:33:45,735 --> 01:33:49,345
talking about the site plan. Not, I know I'm not the business plan. I'm talking about

1260
01:33:49,925 --> 01:33:53,745
the zoning for grocery. I'm talking about zoning for grocery.

1261
01:33:54,455 --> 01:33:56,765
okay. In 1990, yes,

1262
01:33:58,935 --> 01:34:02,765
laws can be changed. We have nine grocery stores.

1263
01:34:05,565 --> 01:34:07,545
we also have whole foods coming,

1264
01:34:09,595 --> 01:34:12,795
large stores in already commercial areas.

1265
01:34:14,785 --> 01:34:18,645
I suggest that the planning commission may be checked on

1266
01:34:18,865 --> 01:34:22,665
the zoning and why that should not continue to be called a grocery

1267
01:34:23,155 --> 01:34:26,855
place. One other reason is that

1268
01:34:27,465 --> 01:34:31,135
property is part of the cross timbers ecosystem,

1269
01:34:32,315 --> 01:34:35,015
which is a hundred year old ecosystem.

1270
01:34:36,845 --> 01:34:40,525
as someone mentioned, there are deer, woodpecker, rabbits in that one

1271
01:34:40,855 --> 01:34:44,735
last place on that corner. It's also

1272
01:34:45,225 --> 01:34:48,785
a potential remnant forest that's existed

1273
01:34:49,355 --> 01:34:52,945
since 1871. Let's keep that corner

1274
01:34:54,325 --> 01:34:57,835
across timber's ecosystem. I ask you to stop this

1275
01:34:58,395 --> 01:34:59,755
procedure with this walmart.

1276
01:35:02,785 --> 01:35:03,005
yes, ma'am.

1277
01:35:09,555 --> 01:35:13,325
good evening, members of the planning commission. My name is

1278
01:35:13,665 --> 01:35:16,995
lou jean jones. I live at 2217 mission road.

1279
01:35:19,275 --> 01:35:20,925
this has been an interesting evening

1280
01:35:23,585 --> 01:35:27,435
and I've really struggled with how to, to start this.

1281
01:35:31,195 --> 01:35:34,725
it's gonna be two, two terms that I would like to use tonight.

1282
01:35:35,785 --> 01:35:38,965
one is cross timbers and a lot of people.

1283
01:35:41,785 --> 01:35:45,645
yes, I am a member of the urban forestry commission, but I'm not

1284
01:35:46,005 --> 01:35:49,285
speaking for on behalf of the urban forestry commission.

1285
01:35:50,035 --> 01:35:53,945
this presentation is my own. We're gonna talk about the

1286
01:35:54,165 --> 01:35:57,595
cross timbers, cross timbers stretch from southeast

1287
01:35:58,205 --> 01:36:01,165
kansas to central texas. It's 890,000

1288
01:36:03,055 --> 01:36:06,885
acres of old growth forests containing trees that date from

1289
01:36:07,125 --> 01:36:11,045
200 to 400 years old. And one of those

1290
01:36:11,505 --> 01:36:15,205
is an oak tree here in edmond that has been verified and dated

1291
01:36:16,345 --> 01:36:20,305
and corded as being over 200 years old. Edmond is

1292
01:36:20,525 --> 01:36:24,445
in the center of the cross timbers forest. The other term

1293
01:36:24,705 --> 01:36:28,555
is remnant forest as an ancient ecological community

1294
01:36:29,215 --> 01:36:32,965
containing native flora that has not been ever significantly

1295
01:36:34,155 --> 01:36:37,845
disturbed on the landscaped

1296
01:36:38,315 --> 01:36:41,835
architect's evaluation. Page nine and 10, dated three five.

1297
01:36:43,225 --> 01:36:46,905
he states that the site is a blending of riparian tree canopy

1298
01:36:47,325 --> 01:36:50,015
and cross timber, forest. Continuing

1299
01:36:51,345 --> 01:36:55,325
quotes. The west side is composed mostly of crops. Timber

1300
01:36:55,955 --> 01:36:59,045
oaks in the original pdu

1301
01:37:00,245 --> 01:37:04,045
approval was granted for an area of separations that was attended to separate

1302
01:37:04,265 --> 01:37:08,245
the commercial and the residential. It is a

1303
01:37:08,605 --> 01:37:12,395
sensitive border and the current plant removes

1304
01:37:12,945 --> 01:37:16,475
the existing tree canopy of mostly cross timbers

1305
01:37:17,735 --> 01:37:21,565
trees remove as much as 60% of street pollution and 20

1306
01:37:21,905 --> 01:37:25,755
to 60% of storm water pollutants. According

1307
01:37:26,385 --> 01:37:29,785
to the recent drg inventory of city trees 2024.

1308
01:37:31,715 --> 01:37:33,525
both of these are gonna be in much greater,

1309
01:37:36,235 --> 01:37:39,685
much greater levels from the runoff of the pace surfaces

1310
01:37:40,265 --> 01:37:43,865
and from the cars entering. And yes,

1311
01:37:45,865 --> 01:37:49,435
the landscape as proposed from the research, extensive

1312
01:37:50,325 --> 01:37:54,225
research I have done, it is going to be years, if not

1313
01:37:54,515 --> 01:37:58,345
decades before these newly planted trees and

1314
01:37:58,635 --> 01:38:02,545
landscape pans will have the effect that those cross timbers do. Now,

1315
01:38:04,365 --> 01:38:08,185
edmond title 22 addresses this and gives the city unique authority to

1316
01:38:08,645 --> 01:38:12,365
preserve our natural resources. These are more than natural

1317
01:38:13,405 --> 01:38:17,205
resources. These are in fact true ecological treasures.

1318
01:38:18,985 --> 01:38:22,305
the, uh, cross timbers, your skypes,

1319
01:38:23,585 --> 01:38:27,005
the cross timbers have actually their own epa

1320
01:38:27,675 --> 01:38:31,485
designation. That is how unique this area

1321
01:38:32,065 --> 01:38:36,005
is. Page one 10 of section 8 22 gives

1322
01:38:36,345 --> 01:38:39,615
the city the ability to impose supplemental additional conditions

1323
01:38:40,985 --> 01:38:44,735
beyond what an original pud submission might

1324
01:38:45,105 --> 01:38:48,525
be regarding sensitive borders, both the 2019

1325
01:38:49,975 --> 01:38:53,555
guide and 2023 forest composition and ecosystem

1326
01:38:54,685 --> 01:38:58,325
analysis show that remnant forest remains in this area.

1327
01:38:58,825 --> 01:39:02,395
and please be mindful of the fact that this is an ancient

1328
01:39:03,345 --> 01:39:06,995
forest section 2260 1d four

1329
01:39:07,625 --> 01:39:11,605
for sites with existing tree canopy of over 20% or greater

1330
01:39:12,815 --> 01:39:16,285
containing any amount of potential remnant forest,

1331
01:39:17,365 --> 01:39:21,105
a tree resource evaluation shall be performed. It

1332
01:39:21,425 --> 01:39:24,915
has been, and we are referencing it prior, we have already

1333
01:39:25,795 --> 01:39:29,605
established that in 2005, the leadership

1334
01:39:30,225 --> 01:39:33,675
of the city set forth the idea

1335
01:39:34,545 --> 01:39:38,275
of urban forestry. They also set forth the idea

1336
01:39:39,545 --> 01:39:43,455
of realizing the value that we have in this community and the uniqueness

1337
01:39:44,125 --> 01:39:48,025
that we have of the remnant forest as

1338
01:39:48,245 --> 01:39:52,065
well as the cross timbers if they are both highly valuable to

1339
01:39:52,285 --> 01:39:56,285
our environment and as living history. We seem to

1340
01:39:56,445 --> 01:40:00,445
be looking past the fact based on recent data that 14

1341
01:40:00,825 --> 01:40:04,505
out of 25 of the most expensive neighborhoods in

1342
01:40:04,965 --> 01:40:08,845
oklahoma are in edmond. We have half of them

1343
01:40:10,155 --> 01:40:13,835
over half. And two of the adjacent heavily

1344
01:40:14,875 --> 01:40:18,745
tree neighborhoods to this development are numbers 20

1345
01:40:19,745 --> 01:40:23,605
and 23. Why are we

1346
01:40:24,125 --> 01:40:27,095
ignoring the standards that set us apart?

1347
01:40:30,365 --> 01:40:34,105
edmond is unique in so many ways and

1348
01:40:34,395 --> 01:40:37,985
part of that reason is standards. Whether it's the

1349
01:40:38,525 --> 01:40:42,245
standards for raising a child, whether it's the standards

1350
01:40:42,605 --> 01:40:46,525
that you want your dog to behave, whether it's the standards

1351
01:40:46,945 --> 01:40:50,895
on how you want your dishwasher loaded, there

1352
01:40:51,465 --> 01:40:55,425
are standards and edmond has

1353
01:40:55,645 --> 01:40:59,595
these and they have been in place for a very long time

1354
01:41:01,105 --> 01:41:04,795
due to very wise leadership. Municipal

1355
01:41:05,435 --> 01:41:08,765
code 23 2 states that the development shall be designed to

1356
01:41:09,445 --> 01:41:13,385
minimize the removal of existing trees. And yes,

1357
01:41:14,505 --> 01:41:18,395
the current commercial code does not require tree

1358
01:41:18,725 --> 01:41:22,605
preservation, but it is recognized as highly preferred

1359
01:41:23,305 --> 01:41:25,325
by doubling the amounts of credits given.

1360
01:41:27,465 --> 01:41:31,345
so where are we now? Ms. Mr. Box

1361
01:41:31,665 --> 01:41:35,205
or the representative assures us that this is already

1362
01:41:35,755 --> 01:41:38,965
decided. I believe strongly in history

1363
01:41:40,025 --> 01:41:42,805
and I think the history decides it's not.

1364
01:41:44,145 --> 01:41:47,845
new codes are being developed in 2027, and this would be

1365
01:41:48,165 --> 01:41:52,145
the ideal time for the city with citizen input to

1366
01:41:52,365 --> 01:41:56,005
develop new codes for treasure tree preservation on commercial

1367
01:41:56,445 --> 01:42:00,125
properties. This would demonstrate an even greater awareness

1368
01:42:00,865 --> 01:42:03,555
of the benefit of the trees that we enjoy in this environment

1369
01:42:04,945 --> 01:42:08,305
and our very long held commitment to it.

1370
01:42:09,825 --> 01:42:12,925
as for now, I would respectfully

1371
01:42:14,035 --> 01:42:16,795
request deeply feel

1372
01:42:18,075 --> 01:42:21,795
that this developer in good faith not destroy

1373
01:42:22,515 --> 01:42:26,205
this unique feature of our community, but rather

1374
01:42:26,795 --> 01:42:30,625
embrace it and let this development, if

1375
01:42:31,165 --> 01:42:34,285
approved, help set a higher edmond standard

1376
01:42:35,525 --> 01:42:39,205
retrieve preservation to lead us into 2027.

1377
01:42:40,935 --> 01:42:42,685
thank you so much. Thank you.

1378
01:42:47,985 --> 01:42:50,245
please do not clap. Thank you.

1379
01:42:57,015 --> 01:43:00,485
thank you very much. I'll be brief. My name's allen vanhorn. I live in the fair cloud neighborhood,

1380
01:43:01,505 --> 01:43:05,325
uh, 26 42 pawnee crossing. Um, and really

1381
01:43:05,585 --> 01:43:09,485
my main concern here, I've got several, but I'll only pick just this one and that's

1382
01:43:09,765 --> 01:43:13,325
cut through traffic. Um, providing sufficient capacity for

1383
01:43:13,845 --> 01:43:17,765
existing and future traffic is a crucial responsibility of the city, the master transportation

1384
01:43:18,875 --> 01:43:22,735
plan and other city studies draw a direct correlation between left hand turns

1385
01:43:23,545 --> 01:43:26,975
and accidents and confirm that slowing turning vehicles cause

1386
01:43:27,645 --> 01:43:31,605
accidents and create congestion, um, trucks turn into that

1387
01:43:32,005 --> 01:43:35,995
location will definitely create a congestion. The city's plan for section 5.3

1388
01:43:37,115 --> 01:43:41,065
specifies that the city's responsibility to preserve the safety of

1389
01:43:41,285 --> 01:43:44,445
residential streets by discouraging cut through traffic in neighborhoods.

1390
01:43:45,395 --> 01:43:49,205
plan four states, the city must provide reasonable capacity

1391
01:43:49,625 --> 01:43:53,465
to prevent cut through trips in neighborhoods. I can tell you I live on

1392
01:43:53,685 --> 01:43:57,685
the street where they come right by. Yeah, the cut through traffic is absolutely ridiculous

1393
01:43:58,335 --> 01:44:02,165
right now. It would only get a lot worse with a walmart

1394
01:44:02,495 --> 01:44:06,345
there with the way their, their road construction is

1395
01:44:06,565 --> 01:44:10,275
going to gonna fit. They're gonna allow left hand turns there without

1396
01:44:10,765 --> 01:44:14,445
the median. There should be no left hand turn there. Stick with the, uh, the master transportation

1397
01:44:15,515 --> 01:44:19,425
plan. Don't allow this cut through traffic to continue to be a problem. Really

1398
01:44:19,845 --> 01:44:23,675
nothing needs to be built there until the city invests what

1399
01:44:23,965 --> 01:44:27,765
they need to invest to improve that intersection. It's long been

1400
01:44:28,245 --> 01:44:32,045
a problem and allowing anything to go in there right now is a big mistake.

1401
01:44:32,535 --> 01:44:33,525
thank you. Alright, thanks.

1402
01:44:39,395 --> 01:44:40,685
anybody else? Yes, ma'am.

1403
01:44:48,265 --> 01:44:51,885
hi, my name is latasha grino and I live at 30 17 ashford oaks boulevard.

1404
01:44:52,665 --> 01:44:56,525
and although a lot of my hoa members are here, I apologize. I'm not very

1405
01:44:56,685 --> 01:45:00,425
active in the hoa. So, um, I just came here on behalf, um,

1406
01:45:01,195 --> 01:45:05,005
just to kind of, I've heard a lot and learned a lot. Um, and I'll be brief

1407
01:45:05,525 --> 01:45:09,445
a lot of what has already been said I planned on talking about, but I did wanna

1408
01:45:09,645 --> 01:45:13,235
just, um, raise this site. Plan

1409
01:45:13,875 --> 01:45:17,445
will impede upon my exercise area. As the gentleman earlier,

1410
01:45:18,145 --> 01:45:21,855
um, showed our green belt. I take my child, we walk. That's one of the only areas,

1411
01:45:22,865 --> 01:45:26,685
um, that there is no traffic. We're able to look at animals,

1412
01:45:27,545 --> 01:45:30,725
um, bugs, plant life, things like that.

1413
01:45:31,755 --> 01:45:35,635
this site plan is going to impede upon that and then also

1414
01:45:36,115 --> 01:45:40,075
eliminate any additional future ability for us to have bike

1415
01:45:40,655 --> 01:45:44,405
paths, sidewalks, um, on the outskirts. And it's going to bring

1416
01:45:44,665 --> 01:45:48,085
in a lot more congestion. Um, the one thing

1417
01:45:48,675 --> 01:45:52,525
that, and despite the gentleman's argument that things that were

1418
01:45:52,805 --> 01:45:56,205
true in the nineties, they do not hold true now here in the twenties.

1419
01:45:57,065 --> 01:46:00,945
um, and maybe the city, maybe the city has

1420
01:46:01,165 --> 01:46:04,805
no power, um, to determine that. But I would ask that you reconsider

1421
01:46:05,265 --> 01:46:08,905
if there, if you have it in your ability to do so. It's a disservice to

1422
01:46:09,325 --> 01:46:13,065
oklahoma's owned businesses like brahms and crest. Um, and

1423
01:46:14,175 --> 01:46:18,115
right near crest, we see buildings that have been

1424
01:46:18,765 --> 01:46:22,655
designed in a much more organic way in keeping with the local

1425
01:46:23,005 --> 01:46:26,365
community. Um, the plan presented ear earlier

1426
01:46:27,585 --> 01:46:31,265
is not outside the box. It's right within the big box. Um,

1427
01:46:31,985 --> 01:46:35,965
and, and brings a, a big box store in a mini size version right into our

1428
01:46:36,365 --> 01:46:40,235
backyards. Um, one thing that wasn't also mentioned earlier that

1429
01:46:40,605 --> 01:46:44,385
I think again, it was argued that health,

1430
01:46:45,185 --> 01:46:49,125
safety and wellbeing aren't going to be impacted. However, the commuter

1431
01:46:49,955 --> 01:46:53,895
workforce that will be presented because of this, um, needs

1432
01:46:54,245 --> 01:46:58,185
to be a factor in because our local, um,

1433
01:46:58,675 --> 01:47:02,505
community are not going to be the workforce employed at this area. And

1434
01:47:02,725 --> 01:47:06,415
so this site will bring in, um, it'll act exacerbate

1435
01:47:08,385 --> 01:47:12,365
all of the traffic issues, but also air pollution. Um, I know he

1436
01:47:12,525 --> 01:47:15,835
talked about adding trees very well illustrated.

1437
01:47:16,625 --> 01:47:20,585
we do not need more trees. We have existing trees. Um, and

1438
01:47:21,405 --> 01:47:25,375
regardless of what legislation, um, says about

1439
01:47:26,025 --> 01:47:29,485
our h or what was ordered with the health, safety and wellbeing,

1440
01:47:30,385 --> 01:47:34,365
um, I'm not sure that this, these aspects were taken into account,

1441
01:47:34,905 --> 01:47:38,805
um, in that argument. Um, lastly I'll just reiterate the

1442
01:47:38,965 --> 01:47:42,405
impact on the ecosystem. The semis, snowplows builders

1443
01:47:43,145 --> 01:47:47,105
are just going to increase risk to health. Um, and, and our

1444
01:47:47,325 --> 01:47:50,425
welfare based on the air, air pollution. Um,

1445
01:47:51,825 --> 01:47:55,655
the city already mentioned funding issues with traffic in this area. Local

1446
01:47:56,405 --> 01:47:59,725
business earnings and revenue for local businesses

1447
01:48:00,795 --> 01:48:04,045
will fix that issue, not funding big corporate

1448
01:48:04,805 --> 01:48:08,605
businesses. Um, and lastly, there are other

1449
01:48:08,845 --> 01:48:12,765
ways to bring in revenue. Um, and if it's zoned for a grocery store, there

1450
01:48:13,005 --> 01:48:16,645
are many specialized grocers that we potentially could welcome

1451
01:48:17,195 --> 01:48:21,105
that involve compatible, uh, architecture that's

1452
01:48:21,645 --> 01:48:25,235
more organic and eco-friendly. And edmond is a very

1453
01:48:25,675 --> 01:48:29,605
beau, it's a beautiful city, right? That's what we value. And so I would just ask that

1454
01:48:29,915 --> 01:48:33,625
this site plan, take that into consideration or the city, um,

1455
01:48:34,345 --> 01:48:38,245
really analyze what they're willing to do in thinking outside of the box to

1456
01:48:38,445 --> 01:48:42,205
meet those aspects. Okay. Thank, thank you.

1457
01:48:42,825 --> 01:48:46,485
uh, let's have a couple more, I think. Uh, yes sir.

1458
01:48:47,265 --> 01:48:48,585
go ahead. Yes,

1459
01:48:55,265 --> 01:48:59,245
sir. My name is todd ing. I live reside at 1 0 4 hanover

1460
01:48:59,405 --> 01:49:03,245
drive in edmond. Um, I

1461
01:49:03,835 --> 01:49:07,605
appreciated your comment that said you'd gotten 70 emails on this.

1462
01:49:08,045 --> 01:49:12,005
I think that shows a a great deal of interest and I appreciate the fact that you

1463
01:49:12,165 --> 01:49:15,925
said that all of 'em were, uh, positive or at least, uh, they were civil,

1464
01:49:16,465 --> 01:49:19,985
polite, polite. Let's say that , um,

1465
01:49:21,465 --> 01:49:25,445
I'm one of the, one of the 70 people that, uh, sent you eight pages last night. Yeah. Todd

1466
01:49:25,765 --> 01:49:28,345
oi think it was. Yeah. . Um,

1467
01:49:31,305 --> 01:49:34,915
I'd like to, there's been a lot of things talked about here. There's

1468
01:49:35,405 --> 01:49:39,285
been a lot of investment made by the owner of this property to, to do what

1469
01:49:39,485 --> 01:49:43,305
is appropriate for them. But I I would like to really point out two things. One is,

1470
01:49:44,225 --> 01:49:48,065
um, I mentioned this in my cover letter to you, and

1471
01:49:48,285 --> 01:49:52,125
that is that, uh, I really appreciate the

1472
01:49:52,325 --> 01:49:56,285
fact that you folks dedicate your time to look out for the

1473
01:49:56,725 --> 01:50:00,565
citizens of edmond. I mean, we, this place wouldn't operate without people like yourselves

1474
01:50:00,845 --> 01:50:04,655
willing to dedicate your time to this. And I, I often

1475
01:50:05,005 --> 01:50:08,865
think of planning commissions as, as, uh, people who

1476
01:50:09,185 --> 01:50:12,445
are following through on what winston churchill

1477
01:50:13,355 --> 01:50:17,085
said. First, we shape our buildings thereafter they shape

1478
01:50:17,385 --> 01:50:21,325
us. You, you folks are in the, in the charge with the responsibility

1479
01:50:22,185 --> 01:50:26,085
of shaping the future of edmond. And I recognize that this

1480
01:50:26,285 --> 01:50:30,145
is a very difficult issue that we're talking about tonight. But

1481
01:50:30,405 --> 01:50:34,325
I would like to just say two things here is that this is from

1482
01:50:34,525 --> 01:50:38,325
the edmond website that talks about what the purpose is of this commission

1483
01:50:38,685 --> 01:50:42,245
here. It says, to reduce fire hazards and approve,

1484
01:50:42,715 --> 01:50:45,925
improve public safety and safeguard the public health

1485
01:50:47,065 --> 01:50:50,515
and to facilitate the flow of traffic and decrease hazards.

1486
01:50:51,705 --> 01:50:55,565
and I, I submit that if we, if you find yourself in a position

1487
01:50:55,745 --> 01:50:59,475
of moving this project forward as it's presented to you that

1488
01:50:59,765 --> 01:51:03,725
you're negligent with regard to your responsibilities to look after

1489
01:51:04,555 --> 01:51:08,405
traffic. I recognize that the site plan deals with what happened on the site,

1490
01:51:08,985 --> 01:51:12,805
but we can't look at a, a piece of property in isolation

1491
01:51:13,435 --> 01:51:17,335
from what the impact is to, to allow this to move forward. We'll

1492
01:51:17,705 --> 01:51:21,095
add millions of dollars if not making almost impossible

1493
01:51:21,785 --> 01:51:25,485
to make improvements to that intersection, which is one of the most dangerous intersections

1494
01:51:26,165 --> 01:51:29,525
in the city of edmond. So I respectfully request that you,

1495
01:51:30,265 --> 01:51:34,165
um, pass this on to the city council, let them make a decision on how

1496
01:51:34,365 --> 01:51:38,165
I want to move forward with it. Thank you. Thank you. Alright. All right.

1497
01:51:39,395 --> 01:51:41,005
okay. One more. Thank you.

1498
01:51:50,505 --> 01:51:54,355
um, my name is parker wilson. I live at 32 0 8 st. Fergus drive here

1499
01:51:54,665 --> 01:51:58,405
to express inconsistencies in the claim that commercial cmu block is compatible

1500
01:51:59,155 --> 01:52:02,725
with residential brick construction. Um, this claim's not just misleading,

1501
01:52:03,285 --> 01:52:07,285
it's factually incorrect. The materials and the buildings they represent, they're governed by

1502
01:52:08,005 --> 01:52:11,825
entirely different business codes or building codes and built for different purposes, uh,

1503
01:52:12,325 --> 01:52:16,035
function completely different, um, incompatible ways. Walmart

1504
01:52:16,525 --> 01:52:20,205
acclaimed cmu structure falls under ibc, um, building code. That's international

1505
01:52:20,805 --> 01:52:24,785
building code, uh, specifically group m mercantile. This means, uh,

1506
01:52:25,005 --> 01:52:28,885
it must meet strict standards for structural loads, fire safety, egress

1507
01:52:29,205 --> 01:52:32,965
and large public occupancy homes in our neighborhood. On the other hand, fall under international

1508
01:52:33,605 --> 01:52:37,405
residential code irc. These codes prioritize comfort scale, residential

1509
01:52:38,045 --> 01:52:41,605
safety, um, not large scale, uh, fire containment or industrial

1510
01:52:42,255 --> 01:52:46,125
loads. Um, you simply can't take a structural, a structure

1511
01:52:46,305 --> 01:52:50,125
design for ibc commercial code claim. It's compatible with residential homes

1512
01:52:50,755 --> 01:52:54,605
just because they use masonry on the outside. That's not how building codes work.

1513
01:52:55,265 --> 01:52:59,165
um, furthermore, cmu is larger, typically eight by eight by 16

1514
01:52:59,445 --> 01:53:03,325
inches. Um, and it's designed to be load bearing, reinforced

1515
01:53:03,565 --> 01:53:07,515
with rebar grout, um, part of fire rated structural system residential

1516
01:53:08,205 --> 01:53:11,885
bricks veneer, smaller decorative non-structural. It's tied to wood

1517
01:53:12,265 --> 01:53:16,105
or, uh, light gauge steel framing offers little to no fire, uh,

1518
01:53:16,605 --> 01:53:20,445
structural performance. Um, putting these two by side by side and calling

1519
01:53:20,885 --> 01:53:24,845
'em compatible ignores the fact that they don't match and scale purpose, strength,

1520
01:53:24,985 --> 01:53:28,965
or safety that's making this proposed material incompatible with the

1521
01:53:29,245 --> 01:53:33,145
surrounding area. I build commercial buildings for a living and when I heard mr. Box

1522
01:53:33,385 --> 01:53:37,235
say that, you know, take cme block and residential brick, they're

1523
01:53:37,725 --> 01:53:41,595
compatible just a little silly to me. So thank you. Alright,

1524
01:53:42,085 --> 01:53:45,785
thanks. They're both called masonry. Yes,

1525
01:53:46,505 --> 01:53:50,415
go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah. I'm dan barth

1526
01:53:50,765 --> 01:53:54,625
and I live at 26 32 ash hollow, and I won't go

1527
01:53:54,845 --> 01:53:58,805
back through all the things that you've heard. I think everyone's done a great job bringing that to your attention.

1528
01:53:59,585 --> 01:54:03,425
the one thing I didn't hear very much about, and that's the noise pollution, uh, if

1529
01:54:03,645 --> 01:54:07,525
you've ever been around a commercial site with a grocery store and the 18 wheelers coming

1530
01:54:07,765 --> 01:54:11,685
in and backing it at night, and the beep beep beep and the banging of the dumpsters

1531
01:54:12,025 --> 01:54:15,995
and all the commercial activities that is going on is gonna be a, a real,

1532
01:54:17,625 --> 01:54:21,605
uh, terrible experience for the homeowners that are in that

1533
01:54:21,765 --> 01:54:25,685
area. So I just hope you add that to it. Uh, we've talked about everything else, the traffic,

1534
01:54:25,865 --> 01:54:29,565
the noise and all that stuff, but consider the noise of what a 24 hour,

1535
01:54:29,895 --> 01:54:33,445
seven day a week operation will do to that neighborhood and the noise pollution

1536
01:54:33,925 --> 01:54:35,585
area. Thank you. Okay, thanks.

1537
01:54:37,985 --> 01:54:41,525
yes, ma'am. I did say one more. Did she too many times

1538
01:54:42,375 --> 01:54:45,925
speak sheila ?

1539
01:54:50,625 --> 01:54:54,265
my name's karen bryce and I live in steeplechase. Um,

1540
01:54:54,965 --> 01:54:58,755
I would just like to encourage, if you have not driven during high

1541
01:54:59,045 --> 01:55:02,805
traffic time in these areas that we're discussing tonight,

1542
01:55:03,755 --> 01:55:07,435
that you do so, and that you may see what

1543
01:55:07,925 --> 01:55:11,725
everyone's concerned about. There have been multiple accidents at that intersection.

1544
01:55:13,455 --> 01:55:17,065
maybe not hurt people, maybe hurt people, but

1545
01:55:17,465 --> 01:55:21,165
you can see the damages and that intersection was fixed

1546
01:55:21,585 --> 01:55:25,365
not very long ago. The roads are in terrible condition. The heavy trucks

1547
01:55:25,725 --> 01:55:29,715
coming in and out everywhere. Um, and walmart will

1548
01:55:30,005 --> 01:55:33,725
have those consistently. It won't end with the building at walmart.

1549
01:55:34,905 --> 01:55:38,705
that's all. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. I think that's, uh, enough to, uh,

1550
01:55:39,315 --> 01:55:41,205
give you'll own more. Alright.

1551
01:55:48,475 --> 01:55:52,235
members, members of the planning commission, I'll

1552
01:55:52,525 --> 01:55:56,225
make this short. Um, I start out by

1553
01:55:56,925 --> 01:56:00,105
appreciating the briefing that, uh, uh,

1554
01:56:02,145 --> 01:56:06,135
box made. He opened up the door. This is about

1555
01:56:06,485 --> 01:56:10,065
safety and I don't know if that's part of the safe site plan, but this is,

1556
01:56:11,185 --> 01:56:14,715
he opened up the door on safety when he talked about the legislation

1557
01:56:15,405 --> 01:56:18,865
and the attorneys and the court commitment. But this is about safety.

1558
01:56:20,245 --> 01:56:23,985
I am 80 years old and I still know my way home, but

1559
01:56:27,525 --> 01:56:30,715
I map it to check how to get home.

1560
01:56:32,705 --> 01:56:36,685
uh, this, uh, cove and coltrane are already

1561
01:56:37,275 --> 01:56:41,205
traffic choke, choke points. Thursday,

1562
01:56:41,845 --> 01:56:44,605
I had two incidences. I emailed you all on. This

1563
01:56:47,665 --> 01:56:51,625
one was just a backup. The other one was a traffic accident at

1564
01:56:51,845 --> 01:56:55,815
the corner. And what you have here northbound, which

1565
01:56:56,165 --> 01:56:59,445
is one lane, one lane northbound, one lane southbound

1566
01:57:00,665 --> 01:57:04,385
on coltrane. There was an accident there thursday, and

1567
01:57:04,745 --> 01:57:07,615
you to make a left hand turn there,

1568
01:57:08,865 --> 01:57:12,365
um, it gets to be where it's a matter of patience

1569
01:57:12,965 --> 01:57:16,725
'cause traffic southbound. But anyway, the north

1570
01:57:17,235 --> 01:57:21,125
decided to make a left hand turn from a southbound car. We had an accident there

1571
01:57:21,725 --> 01:57:22,665
thursday. Uh,

1572
01:57:25,945 --> 01:57:28,815
the idea of a site plan for walmart today

1573
01:57:30,105 --> 01:57:33,595
on a two lane road with a little widening here

1574
01:57:34,185 --> 01:57:37,805
in a little widening there does not make a good

1575
01:57:38,235 --> 01:57:42,125
plan as a retired tinker employee. I love it when a

1576
01:57:42,245 --> 01:57:46,245
plan comes together when a plan doesn't work. We call

1577
01:57:46,525 --> 01:57:50,105
that pppi have questions on our

1578
01:57:50,635 --> 01:57:54,325
cove improvement plan. What is the status of our colville improvement

1579
01:57:55,035 --> 01:57:58,675
plan? What is the impact of this

1580
01:58:00,275 --> 01:58:03,275
plan here on our existing plan?

1581
01:58:04,585 --> 01:58:08,325
is this going to prevent us from doing anyway? What's

1582
01:58:08,745 --> 01:58:12,745
the impact? And we'll site plan approval for walmart on a

1583
01:58:12,885 --> 01:58:16,665
two lane road, create, create a traffic

1584
01:58:17,765 --> 01:58:21,605
crisis. We're talking about safety here on

1585
01:58:21,865 --> 01:58:25,765
a site plan. If so, maybe we can change the title of

1586
01:58:25,985 --> 01:58:29,845
a planning commission to crisis management. That's

1587
01:58:30,265 --> 01:58:32,705
the concludes of my speech here. Okay, thank you. Yes, sir.

1588
01:58:34,535 --> 01:58:37,545
alright, david, uh, mr. Box, could you

1589
01:58:39,635 --> 01:58:43,545
visit with, uh, some of these, uh, issues, uh,

1590
01:58:44,025 --> 01:58:47,085
one being, uh, light pollution store hours,

1591
01:58:48,665 --> 01:58:51,305
uh, speakers, um,

1592
01:58:53,835 --> 01:58:57,395
made the, uh, the traffic, the, the interior around the site,

1593
01:58:58,585 --> 01:59:02,095
uh, and a lot of comments around the, uh, being consistent

1594
01:59:03,195 --> 01:59:06,225
with the, uh, surroundings. And also, uh,

1595
01:59:07,605 --> 01:59:10,725
I I I'm interested in what, uh, your comment would be on property rights.

1596
01:59:11,665 --> 01:59:15,475
on property rights. Yeah. Well, perhaps we start with what

1597
01:59:15,765 --> 01:59:19,235
judge andrews said, um, and what judge andrew said

1598
01:59:19,945 --> 01:59:22,525
in his journal entry of partial summary judgment, november 3rd, 2016,

1599
01:59:24,625 --> 01:59:28,445
is that the decision made by defendants city council to uphold

1600
01:59:29,045 --> 01:59:32,395
planning commission denial of the site plan deprived plaintiff

1601
01:59:33,265 --> 01:59:37,115
of property rights. So perhaps

1602
01:59:38,215 --> 01:59:41,145
let's start with the, the consistent, um,

1603
01:59:42,705 --> 01:59:46,085
the architecturally consistent that was specifically addressed

1604
01:59:47,665 --> 01:59:51,005
in both the district court and the court civil appeals.

1605
01:59:52,505 --> 01:59:56,295
and both of those bodies ruled

1606
01:59:56,995 --> 02:00:00,215
that this exact site plan, this exact

1607
02:00:01,005 --> 02:00:04,865
building, this exact design, met the

1608
02:00:05,085 --> 02:00:08,985
requirements of the pud. The only thing changed in

1609
02:00:09,235 --> 02:00:12,695
this verse, that version is the color

1610
02:00:13,585 --> 02:00:17,285
of the masonry product. The color

1611
02:00:18,305 --> 02:00:22,285
is the only thing changed. What you see before you in this site plan

1612
02:00:22,985 --> 02:00:26,515
is exactly what was litigated. And both the district court through judge andrews

1613
02:00:27,505 --> 02:00:31,505
and then three different courts of appeals judge, all

1614
02:00:31,815 --> 02:00:35,725
ruled that this site plan saved for the color

1615
02:00:37,205 --> 02:00:41,045
complies with everything that a property owner has to comply with to develop

1616
02:00:41,555 --> 02:00:45,165
this site. In fact, if you look at page 11

1617
02:00:45,705 --> 02:00:49,485
of the court civil appeals opinion, uh, all three

1618
02:00:50,145 --> 02:00:53,645
of the judges concurred. Of course, one of them, two of them,

1619
02:00:54,605 --> 02:00:58,445
somebody could have dissented and had a different opinion. But instead, when you see paragraph

1620
02:00:59,245 --> 02:01:02,835
17 affirmed, um, then you see that

1621
02:01:03,595 --> 02:01:05,785
gore and joplin both concur.

1622
02:01:09,185 --> 02:01:10,965
so the issue of consistency has already been litigated

1623
02:01:14,185 --> 02:01:18,035
and the ruling was direct that

1624
02:01:18,435 --> 02:01:22,005
this complies with the pud as it relates to property rights.

1625
02:01:23,975 --> 02:01:26,605
there was a lot of talk about things are different now than they were in 1990.

1626
02:01:27,985 --> 02:01:31,345
the law in oklahoma is absolutely crystal clear. Zoning

1627
02:01:32,035 --> 02:01:35,805
runs with the land. We may not like it, but zoning runs with the land.

1628
02:01:36,825 --> 02:01:40,565
and this was zoned prior to the neighborhood being developed.

1629
02:01:41,305 --> 02:01:44,445
if the neighbors had looked at the pud

1630
02:01:45,555 --> 02:01:49,445
when they bought their home, they would've seen that they were buying a piece of property

1631
02:01:49,755 --> 02:01:53,405
next to a wide open e two open display commercial

1632
02:01:54,555 --> 02:01:58,345
site at a hard corner. What they would've found had

1633
02:01:58,565 --> 02:02:02,445
they dug into the code, is that a grocery store exactly as presented

1634
02:02:02,925 --> 02:02:05,815
to you here this evening is absolutely authorized.

1635
02:02:07,345 --> 02:02:10,965
now as it relates to lighting, your code has lighting requirements

1636
02:02:11,745 --> 02:02:15,045
as it relates to development of commercial property. Next to single family residential,

1637
02:02:15,825 --> 02:02:19,765
we will meet or exceed all those lighting requirements. There's a sensitive border standard,

1638
02:02:20,255 --> 02:02:24,105
which we meet. Um, one of the, the

1639
02:02:24,325 --> 02:02:28,305
image of the, the five-year-old's bedroom, I believe was

1640
02:02:28,525 --> 02:02:32,525
somewhere over here. So it's worth noting that's why we created this line of sight

1641
02:02:32,765 --> 02:02:36,175
study. So, um, a person here, of course, again,

1642
02:02:36,825 --> 02:02:40,805
we have this 125 foot buffer, and then you have a row of trees, and then you have

1643
02:02:40,925 --> 02:02:44,485
a series of terraces, all of which are landscaped. And then you have sunken down

1644
02:02:44,985 --> 02:02:48,825
30 feet below is our building. Given the

1645
02:02:49,045 --> 02:02:52,765
fence and the trees, you're not gonna be able to see that structure.

1646
02:02:54,585 --> 02:02:57,765
so what more can a proper owner and developer do

1647
02:02:58,615 --> 02:03:02,125
other than comply with the rules as prescribed

1648
02:03:03,345 --> 02:03:07,125
by a city? There's nothing more they can do

1649
02:03:08,345 --> 02:03:11,885
to put additional requirements would be absolutely subjective

1650
02:03:12,985 --> 02:03:16,435
and violate every principle of development and every principle

1651
02:03:17,145 --> 02:03:21,005
of legal authority that exists for the state of oklahoma. What I will do

1652
02:03:21,265 --> 02:03:25,245
is close with two specific quotes from the court

1653
02:03:25,405 --> 02:03:29,025
of civil appeals. Again, there's a lot of talk about safety and, and the general welfare. So

1654
02:03:30,145 --> 02:03:33,965
within paragraph 15, courts have been less willing to allow local

1655
02:03:34,165 --> 02:03:37,235
governments to use public health safety and welfare concern to justify

1656
02:03:38,275 --> 02:03:42,245
site plan disapproval. The reason is obvious site plan

1657
02:03:42,505 --> 02:03:45,805
review is a ministerial decision that follows from the applicant's

1658
02:03:46,685 --> 02:03:50,685
demonstrated compliance with specific standards. The public health safety and welfare

1659
02:03:51,205 --> 02:03:55,165
standard is a broad standard that demands an exercise of discretion. For this reasons,

1660
02:03:55,585 --> 02:03:59,205
the courts will rule that it is arbitrary and capricious to deny site plan

1661
02:03:59,685 --> 02:04:03,685
approval on grounds of public health, safety or welfare.

1662
02:04:04,915 --> 02:04:08,565
most courts regard the site plan review step akin to a building permit

1663
02:04:09,345 --> 02:04:13,345
if the requirements are met. The decision making body has no discretion to

1664
02:04:13,715 --> 02:04:17,605
deny the site plan. We have

1665
02:04:17,805 --> 02:04:21,405
presented to you a site plan fully compliant.

1666
02:04:22,155 --> 02:04:25,685
your staff buying through their staff report, recommending approval,

1667
02:04:26,645 --> 02:04:30,075
confirms that you see site plan applications routinely

1668
02:04:30,685 --> 02:04:34,045
that will have variances in them. That variance

1669
02:04:34,915 --> 02:04:38,465
request in a site plan application is telling you

1670
02:04:39,075 --> 02:04:42,985
that site plan doesn't conform to all of the rules required for

1671
02:04:43,405 --> 02:04:47,405
whatever that zoning district is. That's not what you have here. Here you have a recommendation

1672
02:04:47,925 --> 02:04:51,845
of approval with not a single variance because we meet all of the

1673
02:04:52,005 --> 02:04:55,635
rules. And just as the court of civil appeals has already told, the city of edmond already

1674
02:04:56,125 --> 02:05:00,105
told the ashford oaks neighborhood, if that is the answer, then it is

1675
02:05:00,845 --> 02:05:04,245
ministerial and it must be approved. We would ask that you follow

1676
02:05:04,985 --> 02:05:08,645
the precedent set on this site to the city of edmond

1677
02:05:09,195 --> 02:05:13,065
back in 2017. Thank you. Can I ask you one more question? Yes, sir. I'm

1678
02:05:13,285 --> 02:05:17,145
sorry. Just, uh, but there was a comment about the, uh,

1679
02:05:17,505 --> 02:05:21,465
the landscaping with the, um, uh, the, the

1680
02:05:21,685 --> 02:05:25,525
trees, uh, are, are you going to completely, uh, replant trees

1681
02:05:25,845 --> 02:05:29,725
over there or leave the existing trees on the, in the 120 foot

1682
02:05:29,925 --> 02:05:33,245
buffer? So we'll have to replant, uh, some of the trees on top of that terrace.

1683
02:05:34,355 --> 02:05:38,325
okay. Just because that, uh, there's construction work on

1684
02:05:38,485 --> 02:05:42,185
that. Yes, sir. And, uh, we have submitted a tree survey that we believe has been approved. So,

1685
02:05:42,825 --> 02:05:46,325
um, yeah, we will have to, to plant trees. We will meet or exceed

1686
02:05:47,385 --> 02:05:48,715
all landscaping regulations.

1687
02:05:51,515 --> 02:05:55,205
okay. Thank you. Thank you. Any other questions from the commission?

1688
02:05:56,025 --> 02:05:59,545
are we ready for a vote? I, I have a, an additional comment. Okay. Um,

1689
02:06:00,985 --> 02:06:04,785
before my current role for my day job, I used to work for a developer here in at

1690
02:06:05,325 --> 02:06:09,325
oklahoma. And it's very normal for there to be a dialogue, uh, between

1691
02:06:10,285 --> 02:06:14,285
a developer and the community. Um, and to come

1692
02:06:14,445 --> 02:06:18,325
back after and to fix requests. I think it's a shame you'd

1693
02:06:18,645 --> 02:06:22,645
prefer to litigate than be flexible. Um, I,

1694
02:06:22,885 --> 02:06:26,845
I believe, and I see a path forward where this gets approved

1695
02:06:27,585 --> 02:06:31,285
and a walmart's on that corner, uh, following the code and where

1696
02:06:32,005 --> 02:06:35,605
majority of people can be happy. Um, it, it appears to me you'd prefer

1697
02:06:36,105 --> 02:06:39,725
to go to court and fight than work with the community. I think that's a shame.

1698
02:06:40,225 --> 02:06:44,125
um, the first thing you stood up there and said was when it

1699
02:06:44,245 --> 02:06:47,805
was litigated. I just think that's a shame. Um, that's not the precedent

1700
02:06:48,405 --> 02:06:51,705
that most developers and admin have set. Uh,

1701
02:06:52,965 --> 02:06:56,865
I think that's just a shame. No additional comment. If

1702
02:06:57,085 --> 02:07:01,005
I may, mr. Chair address that. I will say, um, my client did have a sit down

1703
02:07:01,165 --> 02:07:04,525
meeting, um, with the hoa president

1704
02:07:05,265 --> 02:07:09,265
to discuss whether or not there was a path forward. Um, the indication we

1705
02:07:09,485 --> 02:07:12,545
got was, you know, there there's not. So,

1706
02:07:14,045 --> 02:07:18,035
I, I don't know that it's fair to say it's a shame there was nothing we could have done well

1707
02:07:18,325 --> 02:07:22,325
let back in 2015. We have raised concerns as well that from what I

1708
02:07:22,445 --> 02:07:25,945
understand, you don't plan on, uh,

1709
02:07:26,725 --> 02:07:30,355
altering the site plan to accommodate either. Is that correct?

1710
02:07:31,705 --> 02:07:34,245
so I think you have to appreciate that

1711
02:07:36,195 --> 02:07:40,075
significant amount of money had to be spent litigating this last

1712
02:07:40,365 --> 02:07:44,285
time and years spent litigating this last time.

1713
02:07:45,305 --> 02:07:48,705
and one of the things that we have in america is

1714
02:07:49,435 --> 02:07:53,005
precedent. And what the court told us is this is

1715
02:07:53,945 --> 02:07:57,675
the rule. Our fear was if we start modifying

1716
02:07:58,285 --> 02:08:01,485
the site plan in a manner that perhaps no longer

1717
02:08:02,545 --> 02:08:06,405
met the strict interpretation of the code, we find ourselves in a

1718
02:08:06,645 --> 02:08:10,515
position of not being under what that opinion said

1719
02:08:10,805 --> 02:08:14,805
from the court of civil appeals. And so our goal, and this started, I believe it was

1720
02:08:14,885 --> 02:08:18,885
october, we started meeting with staff. And at every meeting we made it

1721
02:08:19,005 --> 02:08:22,485
clear, our goal is what do we have to do to meet your rules?

1722
02:08:23,825 --> 02:08:27,625
um, and so it was only after we got to a point where we met

1723
02:08:27,945 --> 02:08:31,805
all the rules that we formally submitted and, and found ourselves here.

1724
02:08:32,065 --> 02:08:34,485
mm-hmm . But I I don't think it's shameful that a developer

1725
02:08:36,215 --> 02:08:39,855
spent three years and significant money litigating

1726
02:08:40,545 --> 02:08:44,465
to find out that in fact they were correct and they were right. And it should have been approved to

1727
02:08:44,685 --> 02:08:48,565
then come back and meet what the court told us. The rules

1728
02:08:48,785 --> 02:08:52,585
are. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Uh, excuse

1729
02:08:53,005 --> 02:08:56,935
me. He mentioned to me, uh, mr. Tapp called me personally.

1730
02:08:58,445 --> 02:09:02,165
I did meet with him personally and I made it very clear my meeting

1731
02:09:02,545 --> 02:09:06,445
was just for me personally. I was not representing the hoa and what

1732
02:09:06,725 --> 02:09:09,965
I told him was, my house does abut to this sensitive border.

1733
02:09:10,785 --> 02:09:14,665
and if this were approved, uh, ma'am, can we show that, uh,

1734
02:09:16,185 --> 02:09:19,855
uh, fair farley fence image that's on the thumb

1735
02:09:20,205 --> 02:09:20,405
drive, christine?

1736
02:09:24,925 --> 02:09:28,805
I think we're aware. Uh, there we go. The, that one. Yeah. So

1737
02:09:28,965 --> 02:09:32,845
this is the wooden fence behind the second street, walmart. I said, this

1738
02:09:33,125 --> 02:09:36,685
is what we're gonna be looking at. Me personally, the hoa

1739
02:09:37,145 --> 02:09:41,085
had nothing to do with our meeting. And what mr. Tap told me in that meeting was, if I could

1740
02:09:41,245 --> 02:09:45,125
make the fight go away, he would take care of me personally. I didn't care

1741
02:09:45,285 --> 02:09:49,045
for that. So I think it is a shame when we go to litigation. Thank you.

1742
02:09:49,375 --> 02:09:53,265
thank you. Alright. Uh, do

1743
02:09:53,485 --> 02:09:57,085
I hear a motion to bring this to a vote? Motion to approve.

1744
02:09:57,625 --> 02:09:57,625
second.

1745
02:10:07,385 --> 02:10:11,185
all right. This, uh, this motion, uh, fails and so there was no,

1746
02:10:11,505 --> 02:10:14,935
uh, movement to counsel. So this ends here today.

1747
02:10:16,545 --> 02:10:19,445
and, um, I would assume we'll probably see this again.

1748
02:10:23,145 --> 02:10:25,005
so, um, thank you.

1749
02:10:30,025 --> 02:10:33,465
no, no, no, no, no. All right. Let's move on to, uh,

1750
02:10:38,405 --> 02:10:42,125
I don't realize this. We can wait.

1751
02:10:42,995 --> 02:10:42,995
okay.

1752
02:10:54,865 --> 02:10:55,085
all right.

1753
02:10:58,905 --> 02:11:02,785
uh, please. We, we still have more meeting. We have more meetings to go, please.

1754
02:11:05,055 --> 02:11:09,005
thank you. All right. We need to finish the meeting.

1755
02:11:09,305 --> 02:11:12,285
so if you could, uh, make your way out, I would appreciate it.

1756
02:11:29,945 --> 02:11:33,475
all right. Uh, looking at number item number four.

1757
02:11:34,865 --> 02:11:38,765
the items listed under discussion and consideration are usually

1758
02:11:39,155 --> 02:11:40,485
discussed and considered

1759
02:11:44,765 --> 02:11:46,885
individually by members of the planning commission.

1760
02:11:49,425 --> 02:11:52,195
and, uh, there were no items that were pulled from that.

1761
02:11:53,865 --> 02:11:56,785
so any new business or, uh,

1762
02:11:58,115 --> 02:12:01,885
citizen comments? No citizen comments. Anyone would like to make a comment?

1763
02:12:02,305 --> 02:12:05,795
uh, no. No one signed. Alright.

1764
02:12:07,545 --> 02:12:11,525
so do I hear a, uh, a motion to adjourn? I

1765
02:12:11,645 --> 02:12:15,575
would make, I would make a motion to aurn. Second. I'll second as well. Thank

1766
02:12:15,925 --> 02:12:19,655
you. We vote. Meeting is adjourned. Thank

1767
02:12:20,005 --> 02:12:20,005
you.