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with roll call.
>> Blackwell

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» present.
>> Ashcraft

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» present.
>> Lantry

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» present.
>> Yosi present.

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» Thank you. Item two on the agenda, joint
discussion with city council and Eldrich

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Volunteer Fire Company, EVFC, regarding
future fire protection services. First

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of all, I want to thank the leadership
team of the El Volunteer Fire Department

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for their attendance tonight along with
their attorney But before we delve into

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that discussion, um I feel it's
important to share with the public how

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we got from August 17 until tonight
because a lot has transpired in those

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several weeks.
When we were all together last,

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it was left that at the recommendation
of Councilman Yosi that we would try to

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schedule a joint meeting between the
county, the city council, and the fire

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department to try and develop a path
forward and get all three entities on

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the same page.
In the days after that meeting, I did a

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lot of thinking and talked to several
people.

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And after those discussions, I made the
decision to schedule a committee of the

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whole meeting where the county, city,
and fire department would all be

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represented. My reasoning was that every
council member needed to hear what

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everybody had to say, and they should
all have a voice at the table. It's the

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same message that was delivered to the
fire department last April when we told

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them in meetings that going forward we
should include the entire council.

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I then had a lengthy phone call with
assistant fire chief Dave Angler and

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broached the idea of a committee of the
whole meeting with him. He was on board

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with the exception that he didn't want
the county involved at this time. He

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thought their involvement was premature
and that the city and fire department

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needed discussions first. I listened and
told him that I would tell the county

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they would not be needed at that
meeting.

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Also during that week, it became very
clear to me that council Dr. Ree and I

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need to clear the air, especially after
I made the public comment that I

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perceived he had a competitive interest
with the fire department.

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It should be noted for the record that
Brian and I had been friends for almost

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35 years. We were neighbors. Our young
daughters were best friends growing up.

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We served on the fire department
together and often on calls during the

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middle of the night, Brian would stop by
and pick me up and we would ride to the

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station together.
Over the years, I had been supportive of

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his time on the city council and in my
role as editor of the North Gap Press, I

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wrote several editorials endorsing him
and we saw eye to eye on many things.

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There is no doubt that Brian brings a
wealth of experience and knowledge to

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the council and as he finally says, he
speaks his mind.

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On the website, he encouraged me to run
for city council two years ago and was

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supportive last fall when I told him I
was asked to run for mayor.

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Lately, we have gotten a bit sideways
and we both knew that that needed to

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change.
Brian and I met on Saturday, August 27th

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or 22nd in a two and a half hour meeting
that started in the afternoon and went

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well into the evening.
I was able to outline the various

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reasons why I and others perceived that
he had a conflict of interest when it

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came to the fire department.
and he meant no words in telling me his

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perceptions concerning my role as mayor
and more importantly my leadership.

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It is no exaggeration when I say that it
was brutally honest as it needed to be.

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We cleared the air on numerous topics
and not just fire department. We both

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listened,
processed, and were reflective.

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Did we agree on everything? No. But we
were respectful of each other's opinions

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and agreed to try and see things through
each other's lenses.

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I feel and I think Brian would agree
that he and I are in a much better place

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tonight.
At the end of that meeting, we agreed

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that he and I needed to try and solve
this issue with the fire department

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together and more importantly, in his
words, heal the division, however big or

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small it may be, in our community.
I share with him the plan to schedule a

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committee the whole meeting without the
county, and Brian was supportive.

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I also shared that it might be
beneficial for him and I to meet with

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Assistant Chief Angler and firefighter
Andrew Doyle to talk details about

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moving forward with the committee as a
whole.

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Brian said he would go to the fire
station the next morning and make it

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happen. He did. That meeting was set for
5:00 p.m. on Monday, August 24th, one

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week after our last council meeting.
That meeting with the four of us lasted

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about 30 minutes.
I talked about trust. I said that I'd

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known Dave Angler for probably close to
30 years and that I trusted him more

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than anybody else on the fire
department.

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I told Andrew that I had only had brief
interactions with him in our meetings

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last March and April. I said that he had
never given me a reason to not trust

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him, so I had to trust him.
I outlined a plan to prepare for

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tonight's meeting. I proposed that both
the city and fire department develop

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written plans on how we could move
forward. My only stipulation was that

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both entities needed to present plans
with the end result being that the fire

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department would eventually transition
to a municipal department much like they

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asked for in May of 2025.
And whether that transition would be

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now, 6 months from now, 18 months from
now, that had to be our end goal.

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that we all agreed on. We also agreed
that in the meantime, the fire

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department would not reach out to
individual council members because it

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was important for all council members to
hear the exact same thing at tonight's

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meeting.
Over the course of the next two weeks,

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both the city and fire department worked
on their proposals with Councilman Yosi

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taking the lead for the city.
Last Saturday, September 5th, Assistant

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Chief Engler and I exchanged those
proposals and forwarded them on to our

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respective colleagues. And in all
transparency, they were provided to you

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tonight, this meeting.
And that brings us to tonight where

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hopefully we can have an honest and open
conversation.

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This is a public meeting, but it is not
a meeting of the public.

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This is the conversation between the 11
of us out here at the front of the room.

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We respectfully request that there be no
demonstrative reactions to anything that

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is said. No applause, cheering, or
negative reactions of any kind. You are

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simply interested observers and are
expected to sit quietly. If you can't,

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you will be asked to leave. This is a
conversation between those of us at the

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front of the room.
Before we start, it should also be noted

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that even though Seth Porter is sitting
at this table, he is the insurance agent

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for both the city and fire department,
and he will do his best to navigate that

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fine line if any questions arise.
As a way of starting, we're not going to

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go through each other's proposal word
for word. Instead, we will start by each

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entity sharing what they like and
dislike about the other entity's

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proposal.
Jeff Martins will pick up a coin and uh

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heads go fire department tails. It's us.

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» Heads.
>> Heads. So, the fire department, if you

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would like to
speak first, that would be a great way

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to start.

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Well, um yeah, I say we've exchanged
these agreements. Um couple things that

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when we look through one that we
received from the city that is probably

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going to be a sticking point that we'll
need to talk through is the anticipated

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transition to a city department in 12
months. Uh it's not something that that

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if we're going to entertain the idea of
us hiring a chief and going through all

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of that extra effort to set up the
board, do that hiring process. Doing

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that for a 12-month period is not
fruitful for us. It's kind of a waste of

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time, which is why I think in our
proposal, I think we've got that set to

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three years. And then, you know, during
that three-year period, there would be a

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time where we would check in to see how
things are going, making sure that we've

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have we are rebuilding that trust and we
can, you know, work towards that

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ultimate end goal down the road at some
point in time.

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Um, beyond that, I mean, that's
the rest of it I think are just details.

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I'll call them details. I mean,
obviously those things are have to be

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worked out. Um, but that's probably the
biggest sticking point that we see from

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the along the city side.
Anything else to add here?

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I also think fundamentally we're not
terribly far away from each other on

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overall structure. Um
I think we just again would kind of need

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to go through a more detailed plan of
you know kind of who's responsible for

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what from a budgetary perspective and um
the cadence of review in terms of

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you know review of um some of the
metrics here that were defined for you

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know response time um you know training
volunteer retention

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I think just outlining really clear
benchmarks in regards to that I think is

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obviously a great idea across the board.
One thing that stuck out to me I think

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that I would want to address is sections
three and four as it pertains to trust.

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Um I think a lot of it I understand the
goal of that. However, I think it's a

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lot of um relitigating of the last 15
months. I don't know that it's because

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you're right, trust is subjective and
it's really hard to assign

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a KPI to regaining trust, but I think
ultimately the goal of everyone up here

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right now is to retain as much the
volunteer membership as possible and we

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need to take into consideration
um the overall

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temperature of the department as we kind
of move through this. And you know, if

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things are going great and both parties
decide to, you know, continue the

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agreement as is, fantastic. If they're,
you know, everything the the trust is

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being restored and we feel like it's in
the best interest of the community, you

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know, mutually to have it transition to
a fully municipal department, that's

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also a great outcome. Um, I think it's
just going to be really hard for us to

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define in such strict parameters um when
that takes place. I think we set review

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periods
But to to define it and capture it in 12

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months, as Dave said, I think would be
really difficult because it's going to

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be dependent on sort of the cadence of
interaction and going through a budget

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review cycle. I think there's a lot of a
lot of opportunities for both parties to

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demonstrate uh you know, mutual
cooperation and and really thoughtful

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leadership um as a as a as an entire
whole. So those are the I think the the

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key things I want to highlight myself

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anybody else

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city perspective Ryan I'll turn it over
to you since you kind of led the putting

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this together.
First thing I want to make sure is

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really clear is this started listening
to council doctor listening to the fire

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department. You know, these ideas were
thrown out there. And honestly, I really

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had a difficult time wrapping my head
around these theories, this simple talk.

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I'm not saying simple because it's not
simple, but it was just talk. So finally

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after we had met that Saturday um I just
sat down and started

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hitting the computer trying to figure
out something that could get in writing

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and that's that's how this document is
formed. So you know in full transparency

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it is a working document.
Of course I've had people review it. I

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asked for the feedback from council but
for me it was something just to get the

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ideas on paper. And I'm not saying that
I necessarily agree with all the ideas.

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I'm certainly not saying that all the
ideas are are viable options both

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legally um and when you look at
insurance side of it and everything else

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but it was a for me it was a starting
point um and I don't know I probably

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shocked you guys a little bit when I
brought the document to you but in my

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eyes it was the only path we had going
forward um you know like like you guys

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mentioned the the key to this is to to
transition without losing Well, and I

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think that's that's the biggest takeaway
here. There there has to be a win for

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the citizens. That's the bottom line.
So, um was it initially what I wanted?

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No. But but the more I saw it on paper,
it kind of started to make sense. Um

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again, my my thoughts now and I want
holes poked in. I want to be able to

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look through everything in there because
as a working draft, some of the things

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just might not be possible. Um, there's
going to be tweaks, there's going to be

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adjustments, and everything is there to
be discussed. Um, and there's a lot of

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stuff there to be discussed as far as
defining how, you know, some of those

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things take place. the operational
control, the hiring of the chief, the um

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the financial oversight, all that stuff
is, and I changed this document, I can't

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tell you how many times, trying to not
put things in there that seemed

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promising, but not lose perspective on
what the end goal was. Um, so again, it

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is what it is. It's it's not, you know,
it's not something that can't be

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adjusted.
um when I look at you know the proposal

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from the EVFC um it's it's a different
style proposal but at the end of it you

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know obviously I have a few questions
the the first one for me would be um the

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the financial oversight how does that
look and and again it's needed document

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defines how that works but but what I do
understand is if we you know originally

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we talked about a process of hiring that
chief together whether it we're going

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down the municipal route or whatever
that that would be a combination of us.

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And to my understanding is we have a
county entity, we have a city entity. If

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we bring in the fire department as a
nonprofit entity, now we've created a

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new um structure that has different
liabilities with that. Um I'm not saying

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it can't be done. That would be where
legal and assurance advice would come in

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as to to how that plays out if that was
something that we did. Um I don't like

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the idea of just the fire department
picking the chief. I don't like the idea

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of just the city picking the chief. You
know, there's there's got to be that

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compromise that we've talked about from
the beginning. But on the structural

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side of it, the legal side of it, that's
what I don't know. And that's what we're

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going to have to reach out to people
that are smarter than us that can help

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figure that out. Um, the other thing
that stands out to me too,

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let's back up here. One one thing I I
want to make very clear, and I know it's

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state law that that the city is
obligated to supply fire protection. I I

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want to be very clear that it has always
been my opinion and the opinion of the

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council that that it does include EMS as
well. That that can't go anywhere.

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That's equally as valuable to our
community. So, um, as we're discussing

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this, the fire and EMS need to be paired
together on that. U, but what I what I

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have a hard time understanding is is
how it comes together to

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um have this chief in place. However, we
we get that person he or she picked that

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the chief, in my opinion, needs to be in
control of the department. They need to

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be in charge of the budget. They need to
be in charge of the members. And it kind

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of stood out to me like this document
said that that chief would report to the

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volunteers. And maybe I just read it
wrong, but that would be that would be a

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concern of mine as that chief
ultimately, you know, needs to to take

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command of the department. Um,
again going going back to to uh the

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trust issue,
can't fix what you can't measure. And

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and that's my biggest concern there is I
don't want to relitigate the past. It

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it's not been always great. But I do
think there has to be some defining

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points that I talk about on the city's
behalf where we went wrong and if

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there's something on the fire
department's behalf so that you outline

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it and you have a path moving forward
that you can measure the success of

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fixing that because if you don't measure
it, you can't define the fix. you're

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asking at that point just for time to
heal the wounds. And I'm not saying

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that's not possible, but I think it
would be a lot more efficient of a

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processes if we were able to outline
some of those issues. And um

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and so I think that's I think that's
really important. Um

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and again, a lot of this stuff here
comes down to the legal side of it, you

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know, with a 28 agreement. Um, you know,
again, can certain things be done

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legally? Yes. Is it advised to? In some
cases, no. So, those are the questions

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that we've we've got to go to, you know,
the people in the room smarter than us

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to ask those questions. But I think the
biggest takeaway tonight that we need is

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that we're in the same room talking.
We're we're coming up with ideas. We're

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not going to fix everything in one
night. Um, but if we can move the needle

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just a little bit when we leave here, I
think that's that's the definition of

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success in my mind.

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Don't be shy.
Um, first of all, thank you guys, you

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know, for first of all extending that
October one date. Otherwise, when we be

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here today, our hands could be tied in a
different direction.

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Um, I understand your concern over the
12-month period. I have the same thing.

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Uh, have 12 months and do first
evaluation in 90 days. Nothing's going

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to get completed that can be really
measured 90 days. I always thought to

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the minimum of two years would be the
time frame then do quarterly things and

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uh as far as the chief goes
my opinion and this is just my opinion

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not necessarily the opinion of the
council

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that
if candidates

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turn it in we had some I don't know how
many would still be in it if the fire

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department hired it versus the way it
was advertised I don't have an answer

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for that. But I think one way that might
go in a proper direction is is if the

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city vented the candidates,
you know, who who's acceptable in the

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city for the fire department to pick the
person. You guys got to have buy in and

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selection of the chief in order for this
to be successful. my opinion. Uh the

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other thing that's not in either
document that we as a council need to

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keep pursuing is we have to get that
upstairs done and how we do that because

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that's key to
um

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success to all this too. Not just
leadership but we got to get another

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mechanism to get more members.
on um the city's proposal. Uh one of the

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things and I know Ryan's just got notes
down firefighter retention.

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You know, from my eyes I look at that
that's got to be fire department members

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the number because over the past 120
years people come to Bavello in a

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volunteer fire department. you know, you
may lose some just because they're tired

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or they moved away or I mean that's my
case when I got off the fire department.

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I moved to St. Louis that has no bearing
on whether it's successful or not

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successful in the policies. So there's
little things like that. Um and the EF I

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always say this wrong. EFC I still say
EFT old school. You know, there's one

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part in there that uh we're after three
years and that's a term of your proposal

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that the assets go back to the city.

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If we can't figure this out within 3
years, that's the least of our problems.

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You know,
I don't to me I think that part is not

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necessary in there because we'll know
beyond that.

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Um everything is a timing on this the
process. My gut feeling is we're not far

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apart.
Not at all. Uh everything's along good

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as far as the service you guys companies
provided to the community. I think

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that'll continue on. I think that will
help rebuild trust. Yes. from our side.

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Uh there's got to be some trigger
mechanisms that set it up and I don't

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want to go back and rehash it all. Uh
but I look at the stuff behind us is

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behind us. We as a group of leaders of
the community got to figure out a way to

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take from this point forwards
and to move forwards.

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Um, I don't like eating a crow,
but sometimes we may all have to leave

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eat a little crow to keep moving this
forward. You know, the best possible

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outcome would be a solution that the
city's not 100%

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what they wanted and it may not be 100%
what the fire department want. If we get

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to that point, that's probably the right
place to be to be. Now, this is a

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process.
Um, I know with the 2080 agreements, we

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can't have a 2080 agreement with a
privately held

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uh nonprofit corporation. I think that's
just government entities.

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» No, we can have a 2080.
>> Um, but I I think a service contract

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similar to what they've been providing
is the same thing and not title it a

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2080 agreement. There's a lot of things.
insurance.

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I think uh if the fire department has a
truck go down right now, Dave mentioned

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it I think at the last meeting that if
they have to go out and lease a truck,

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they provide insurance for it. You know,
if we can come up a way where the city

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does own the ancest and we lease them
back to the fire department and the fire

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station in the big picture,
the general public won't know any

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difference than in the past. Most people
think the fire department's own by the

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city now, which it's not.
So, there's a lot of things. I mean,

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insurance is a big one. We got to make
sure both the fire department and the

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city's covered, whatever those
thresholds would be.

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Um, we have to make sure the agreements
are done in the proper order because I

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understand if it's not done properly, it
could lead to more problems.

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If we join oversight committee with the
city and the fire department, we've got

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to verify that doesn't create another
problem.

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But we also need the fire department to
supply us

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uh funding and expenses just to monitor
them. We got to figure out what Andrew

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00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:04,240
said earlier on what's the city going to
pay, what's the fire department going to

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pay, what would we have to pay the fire
department to cover the expenses they're

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00:26:05,919 --> 00:26:14,000
paying
and all those things. But I am just glad

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we are all in the same room. I am very
very happy that social media has not

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been knocking the doors down or burning
up the airway. You know, this is this is

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what we need as community. was about and
I sat down basically. Yeah, we did have

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00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:36,400
a pretty harsh conversation,
but we both decided we have to heal this

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community.
That's what it's all about. Doesn't

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00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:45,840
matter who's sitting at the table.
It doesn't Well, other than calls, but

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00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:51,200
you guys, same thing. At some point in
time, we'll all be replaced. We have to

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set a path for the future.
But we have to heal the community first.

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00:27:05,919 --> 00:27:10,360
» Any thoughts from the fire department on
that?

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00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:19,039
» Oh, I kind of agree. I think we're not
that far apart. And I think you know a

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00:27:17,039 --> 00:27:22,640
couple
things that we talked about I think you

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00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:26,720
know with that operational control um
you know Brian mentioned you know you

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00:27:24,799 --> 00:27:31,360
could take the candidates you've already
received um for the municipal fire

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00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:35,200
department reach out to them obviously
as a you know you can't just hand hand

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00:27:33,360 --> 00:27:38,880
us their resume if we're going to be the
one hiring because I wouldn't be without

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00:27:37,039 --> 00:27:44,080
their permission but if they would still
agree to that you guys got them out and

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00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:47,039
then at that future date down the road
if it turns over to minister fire

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00:27:46,159 --> 00:27:52,000
department, you've already got a
pre-qualified candidate that the city

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approves and we we choose from that
versus us, you know, if we advertise our

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own and then hire somebody that wouldn't
meet it, it would

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create a problem we don't none of us
want to deal with. Um, and then, you

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00:28:04,559 --> 00:28:08,960
know, I think it boils down to, you
know, Brian said, the insurance part,

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00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:12,720
right? Is how are we going to work
through what

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is it going to be 100% of the assets we
turn over? Maybe not. maybe it doesn't

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00:28:14,399 --> 00:28:22,320
make sense to turn the turnup up here
over as an asset. Maybe we retain that

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00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:28,000
because we've currently got a grant um
that we can get reimbursed for purchases

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00:28:25,039 --> 00:28:32,640
of that. So stuff like that. But to me,
those are the detail when we get into

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00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:38,240
the weeds. Um the biggest thing is, you
know, us having that operational control

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00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:43,520
to be able to hire that chief. Um you I
think to Ryan's point too of that person

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00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:47,279
needs to be in charge. I think they
would be in charge from an operational

336
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:51,279
you know fireground all those things but
the business side of it I think is

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00:28:49,039 --> 00:28:56,080
unless we change our constitution and
bylaws that's where the president you

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00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:59,600
know vice president and the treasure of
the department

339
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:07,440
are actually managing the business side
of it u but I think beyond that um

340
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:10,880
yeah I mean that chief would be in
charge

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00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:15,919
they're going to decide who the officers
are going to decide egg, you know, all

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all of those kinds of things that a
normal chief would would do.

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00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,120
» Adrian

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00:29:33,919 --> 00:29:41,360
has been the discussion tonight. I'm not
sure if this is the right

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00:29:39,679 --> 00:29:47,600
time to discuss. Obviously these are
work working documents. Thank you for

346
00:29:44,559 --> 00:29:52,799
time spent extra time that the council
fire department is spend on this.

347
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:57,279
So
my particular questions may come up

348
00:29:54,720 --> 00:30:02,240
again later depending on this but I
think right now it's all legal

349
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:06,399
insuranceances here
just to see with with them to have an

350
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:12,559
opportunity to view the documents what
whats are there.

351
00:30:09,039 --> 00:30:17,120
Sorry if you know
that they say well there's more just

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00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:22,320
white black is gray and better.
So we're looking at this what what can

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00:30:19,279 --> 00:30:26,960
we do to support the ideology moving
forward but

354
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:30,720
and still incorporate respectfully what
the bar department is asking because

355
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:34,080
we're not very that that far off. You
know I'm trying to look at what was

356
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:39,679
presented in April or what's now.
pretty similar looks like

357
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:43,760
but just want to see as as we move
forward here especially if you have 28

358
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:47,360
you know is that I understand that's
necessary

359
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:53,279
if it's not there how does that affect
insurance how does that affect from the

360
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:58,720
gallery standpoint items items like that
the other questions are kind of right

361
00:30:54,880 --> 00:31:02,320
now important but minuscule so I got to
look at the large large portion as we

362
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:09,880
move forward here and then these other
question. We can decipher those at a

363
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,880
later point to

364
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:16,000
» Alice. I'm going to talk a little bit
about the 28 because that's something

365
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,799
that we were kind of we didn't talk
about that at all last spring when we

366
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:23,600
were going down there because we don't
have a 280 is now. Is that correct?

367
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:28,399
» There is a document that's filed with
the state that's identified as a 20e

368
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:32,720
agreement but it doesn't meet the
requirements of 2080. So, we're not

369
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:38,399
currently operating consistent with
2080. Countyy's aware of that. The

370
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:44,960
city's aware of that. Um, so going
forward, we would have to create a 2080

371
00:31:42,399 --> 00:31:48,000
agreement. If under any circumstance, it
would look different. If it's a city

372
00:31:46,399 --> 00:31:51,840
department, it would be between two
parties. My understanding is the county

373
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:57,679
would contract with us for their service
area. If the volunteer fire company is

374
00:31:55,840 --> 00:32:02,799
continuing to provide fire protection
services, it would be a 280 agreement

375
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:07,440
with three parties. Um the city, the
county benefited fire district 3 is what

376
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:11,840
I mean when I say county and then um the
volunteer fire company would be the

377
00:32:09,519 --> 00:32:16,000
private party to that agreement. And
there are several different requirements

378
00:32:13,519 --> 00:32:23,440
for the 2080 that require financial
oversight, operational oversight. Um and

379
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:28,159
depending on how that is structured and
set up, there's different requirements

380
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:33,919
um that attach to that. So the city's
proposal included sort of a joint

381
00:32:30,159 --> 00:32:38,559
oversight board and if that is the
operational decision going forward that

382
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:42,320
would create a fourth entity. Um I had
connected with Seth because it was my

383
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:46,559
understanding you know under under the
law that creates a fourth body it

384
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:53,039
creates a governmental body. So, chapter
21, chapter 22, foya open meetings, all

385
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:56,880
of that would govern all the meetings
and dealings and operations of the fire

386
00:32:55,039 --> 00:33:02,080
company going forward if we move forward
in that structure. And so then I won't

387
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:08,000
speak for Seth um but there would be
four operative parties at that point and

388
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:14,799
each of them would need insurance. And
so, you know, from the underlying

389
00:33:11,679 --> 00:33:18,159
purpose of 2080 requires the city to
move forward in the way that's most

390
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:23,120
efficient. That's the underlying purpose
of chapter 280. So when analyzing, you

391
00:33:21,519 --> 00:33:27,440
know, the different relationships and
the costs that are involved, especially

392
00:33:25,279 --> 00:33:31,519
with the city being the primary funding
mechanism for the volunteer fire

393
00:33:29,039 --> 00:33:35,039
company, when we say the volunteer fire
company would need insurance and the

394
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:38,960
city would need insurance, inherent in
that is the city's responsibility to be

395
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:44,720
funding that on the volunteer fire
company side. Um the county also

396
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:47,919
provides revenue um in a much smaller
amount is my understanding. I don't have

397
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:51,760
the exact numbers. If somebody does,
feel free to chime in.

398
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:55,440
um as far as that goes, but we would
need to move forward with the 2080

399
00:33:54,320 --> 00:34:01,360
agreement that meets all the
requirements of of Iowa code chapter

400
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:04,559
2080 um regardless of it's whether it's
a city department because county is

401
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:08,879
looking for that provision of services
for that area and it would be between

402
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:12,720
two public bodies. So it has very
different requirements if it's between

403
00:34:10,240 --> 00:34:16,879
the city and county. Um if a private
entity, the volunteer fire company is

404
00:34:14,639 --> 00:34:21,919
involved, 2080 requires different
provisions. um with the oversight and

405
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:26,720
things like that. So, it depends. If
it's a 2080 purely with private public

406
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:30,879
entities, excuse me, um there's less
restrictions or less requirements, but

407
00:34:28,240 --> 00:34:35,280
when a private entity is involved, 2080
has additional requirements that have to

408
00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:38,879
be captured in the contract and in the
arrangement.

409
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:43,639
I don't want to speak Seth for you on
the insurance piece. So, I don't know if

410
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,639
you have anything to add.

411
00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:57,760
Thank you, Alison. Um, so as the mayor
mentioned, uh, we serve both, uh,

412
00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:02,880
Eldidge Volunteer Fire Company in the
city of Eldridge. Um, and I'm grateful

413
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:10,800
both of you were here tonight speaker.
Thank you. Um so as I sit here and and

414
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:14,720
whenever provide advice um it's it's
purely based on insurance coverage

415
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:22,800
knowledge of what what could be possible
and what's not possible.

416
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:26,960
Um uh overall we react to um obviously
the entities and legal legal

417
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:33,040
arrangements through a 28 agreement
right so um if we can do something

418
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:38,960
through a 28 agreement um that it's
possible for right a lot of times we can

419
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:45,440
solve the insurance anyway
um from our vantage point uh I would

420
00:35:42,240 --> 00:35:51,680
urge everybody to avoid complexity um
complexity problems and potential for

421
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:58,720
possible situations that insurance can't
resolve or can't resolve well. Okay.

422
00:35:55,200 --> 00:36:04,079
Um so um as I look through some of these
agreements um both parties agreements

423
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:07,520
um there's discussion of transferring
assets

424
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:13,839
um and you know and obviously that
introduces some complexity um I hope

425
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:18,079
that would be streamlined
um for example if it's feasible to

426
00:36:15,839 --> 00:36:25,839
transfer the building the equipment the
vehicles um to city ownership um I uh

427
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:31,839
then want obviously extreme amount of
clarity of who's responsible for for

428
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:35,760
maintaining um that equipment. um
certainly wouldn't want to have the

429
00:36:33,599 --> 00:36:42,160
department being responsible for
vehicles and life safety would um uh use

430
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:46,880
of it obviously in the city having to
maintain private to me there's there's

431
00:36:45,119 --> 00:36:51,839
possibility miscommunication I would
want that so responsibility of all the

432
00:36:48,720 --> 00:36:57,680
maintenance and upkeep
right so um under the two arrangements

433
00:36:54,960 --> 00:37:01,040
that I read um
uh if the assets are going to be

434
00:36:59,599 --> 00:37:06,160
transferred to the
um some sort of lease agreement um

435
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:11,359
obviously using them back the eligible
volunteer fire company u for all use and

436
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:16,000
maintenance um would make a lot of sense
from an insurance standpoint that's very

437
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:19,880
clear
any questions with that

438
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:30,800
um I think if when it comes to uh the
various scenarios of of employment and

439
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:37,200
supervision
um of of chief. Um that introduces

440
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:42,079
complexity, right?
We have a under the proposal a chief uh

441
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:48,960
that's employed uh by the fire
department, but could um have employment

442
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:52,800
oversight by uh an independent board,
right? Well, that would mean that that

443
00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:58,480
independent board would have to react uh
with an appropriate insurance protection

444
00:37:54,880 --> 00:38:02,560
measures. Um, so
again, the wording and structure of that

445
00:38:00,079 --> 00:38:05,680
would be very important.
A lot of details that aren't going to

446
00:38:03,839 --> 00:38:08,839
get ironed out tonight, but just things
for everybody.

447
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:19,359
Questions?
>> Yes. So, I have a question. So, if this

448
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:26,560
independent board has stakeholders from
the city, fire department, from the

449
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:29,839
county, um is there not some sort of
insurance component that can transfer

450
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:36,359
with the entity that they're
representing to the administrative board

451
00:38:32,079 --> 00:38:36,359
so that it would make it less complex?

452
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:46,320
So can I I just as a matter of law under
chapter 28E when we create that board it

453
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:50,320
is a new governmental body under Iowa
law. So I don't know if there's some

454
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:54,640
sort of transfer pro provision but it
would be treated separately. It would

455
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:59,040
have its own meeting requirements and so
the policies would have to be insured in

456
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:03,960
the name of that new body because it
meets that definition and that's that

457
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,960
428.

458
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:12,760
» What would happen if that oversight
committee was not for?

459
00:39:13,359 --> 00:39:22,400
So, chapter 2080 requires if there's a
public body to have an oversight

460
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:27,119
mechanism built into the 2080 agreement.
So, we wouldn't be compliant

461
00:39:24,720 --> 00:39:33,200
with 2080 if we didn't have that
oversight mechanism built into it

462
00:39:30,720 --> 00:39:36,960
if we had a 2080 agreement with a
private entity

463
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:44,480
» and we'd have a service agreement
instead of a 28e agreement with a

464
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:48,560
private entity. So for the provision of
fire protection services is a

465
00:39:46,240 --> 00:39:53,280
governmental function. Uh we cannot
contract for fire protection services

466
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:59,400
without having a 2080 agreement. We
could call it that, but it it needs to

467
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:59,400
be number 28.

468
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:12,880
The questions that I had too was um and
I know the EVFC's, you know, they talked

469
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:16,880
about indemnification and that's common
everywhere. I mean, when you you have

470
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:24,880
certificates of insurance, but um
according to Iowa code 364.16,

471
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:30,400
it appears as though, and I may be
reading it off a little bit, but the

472
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:34,000
city has certain obligations when it
comes to fire protection, and we can't

473
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:38,640
necessarily just hand off those
obligations because we have a service

474
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:43,520
agreement or a 2080 agreement. The city
still assumes liability. Is that

475
00:40:41,119 --> 00:40:47,520
correct? The city remains at all times
responsible for providing fire

476
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:52,240
protection services. So even if we enter
into a valid 2080 agreement, that's

477
00:40:50,240 --> 00:40:56,880
where the oversight mechanisms are a
requirement. You cannot fully delegate a

478
00:40:55,119 --> 00:41:00,880
governmental function and the provision
of fire protection services is a

479
00:40:58,720 --> 00:41:05,760
governmental function. So that's why
2080 requires that continuing oversight.

480
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:09,440
You cannot write a check and then not
have any further oversight or say so

481
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:14,079
because at the end of the day if fire
protection services are not provided the

482
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:18,720
city is ultimately responsible for that
even if we have a service agreement with

483
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:23,680
them to provide that
>> but if we run the finances through the

484
00:41:20,720 --> 00:41:29,760
city's books that have oversight does
that qualify

485
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:33,440
» I don't tell explain that to me just so
I understand run the nonprofits for the

486
00:41:32,079 --> 00:41:37,760
city's books
Yeah. Instead of us handing them money,

487
00:41:35,359 --> 00:41:42,000
we budget amount that is spent and they
get a bill, they submit it, the city

488
00:41:39,839 --> 00:41:46,319
pays it, so we have oversight of the
finances.

489
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:51,119
» Yes. So, some sort of oversight as far
as that goes. I mean, that's sort of

490
00:41:48,079 --> 00:41:55,119
operating like a city department. And if
they do go that way, under 2080, all

491
00:41:53,599 --> 00:41:59,119
bills that are approved for the fire
company have to be published in a

492
00:41:56,640 --> 00:42:03,280
newspaper. I mean there is they
essentially become subject to all the

493
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:07,440
public oversight requirements of 2018.
So

494
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:10,960
some oversight mechanism whether it's
you know running it through city

495
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:17,280
approval in some way that is going to be
required under 280

496
00:42:13,839 --> 00:42:21,920
» and they'll have to post their meetings
also

497
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:25,119
» for the joint board. Yes. Correct.
>> And then publish their minutes as well.

498
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:29,280
Is that correct or
>> Yes. and they have there's individual

499
00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:34,079
requirements regarding publishing bills
that are approved um because they're

500
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:37,040
funded with public funds in a newspaper
within 20 days of those meetings. So

501
00:42:35,839 --> 00:42:42,040
there's some actual there's some
additional administrative hurdles that

502
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:42,040
apply.

503
00:42:43,599 --> 00:42:51,119
Is there any strict requirements about
how that joint board is formed? Like in

504
00:42:49,599 --> 00:42:56,560
terms of there needs to be
representatives from the city, from

505
00:42:53,520 --> 00:43:01,680
benefiting fire district 3, from the
fire company itself, but is there any

506
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:06,640
sort of structure requirement to how
many members, what the representation

507
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:10,960
um looks like?
>> There is a requirement. So if there are

508
00:43:08,240 --> 00:43:16,520
public bodies that are part of the 2080
agreement, the public bodies have to be

509
00:43:12,720 --> 00:43:16,520
represented on the board.

510
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:25,119
Andrew, my recommendation if we have to
do those two from the city council, two

511
00:43:22,319 --> 00:43:30,319
from the fire company and one from fire
district 3 to get a odd number.

512
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:34,560
That's what I was asking is if there's a
minimum requirement of representation or

513
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:41,599
equal representation from everybody or
what that what that revolved around.

514
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:45,440
» No, there's not a specific
makeup composition. They just have to be

515
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:48,960
represented is how 2080 is written and
then it would be subject to the regular

516
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:52,240
budgetary restrictions for spending
public funds outside of that or

517
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:55,640
budgeting processes. All of those things
will also apply.

518
00:43:57,359 --> 00:44:10,000
However, this this advisory board is not
in essence forming like a new 501 sub3

519
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:15,440
um or anything similar to that. So why
does it why does it need the complexity

520
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:20,720
of additional insurance um let me start
there and then get your answer to that.

521
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:25,040
» Yeah. So I mentioned that because under
one well one of these uh outlines it

522
00:44:23,119 --> 00:44:30,960
talks about that board having employment
oversight and and the ability to manage

523
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:33,960
the chief um that means okay
>> liability.

524
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:46,720
So let's say if the role of that board
does not manage the chief the complexity

525
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:52,160
goes away.
Well, yeah, it simplifies it, but then I

526
00:44:49,359 --> 00:44:57,839
would say what what other decisions is
that board making, right? It's going to

527
00:44:53,839 --> 00:45:02,640
have an impact somewhere, which
liability. However, under the 280,

528
00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:10,160
unless I misunderstood,
if we sign a 280, we have to have some

529
00:45:05,839 --> 00:45:13,359
sort of advisory board. Is that correct?
>> There has to be an oversight mechanism.

530
00:45:11,839 --> 00:45:16,720
And so there's either an administrator
or the joint board represented by the

531
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:19,760
public bodies.
>> When you say administrator, what does

532
00:45:18,079 --> 00:45:24,160
that mean?
>> That's how 2080 is written. It mentions

533
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:27,680
an administrator or a joint board. The
proposal I received from the city

534
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:31,200
suggested a joint board.
>> Okay. I was just interested that I

535
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:32,800
hadn't heard just an administrator, so I
was just curious as to what it meant by

536
00:45:32,319 --> 00:45:35,800
that.
>> Okay.

537
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:44,119
» I mean, yeah. throw out there.

538
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:50,079
» So,
hey, I'm working for the company. Um, so

539
00:45:49,119 --> 00:45:52,800
we haven't really had a chance to
discuss it too much here because I think

540
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:57,040
we're all still kind of feeling each
other out with respect to these

541
00:45:54,560 --> 00:46:01,520
agreements, but I think one opportunity
because I've seen this done in a couple

542
00:45:58,319 --> 00:46:05,200
other cities I work with, is
again saying this with the caveat that I

543
00:46:03,599 --> 00:46:08,240
haven't discussed with my client much in
detail. Obviously we want to discuss

544
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:14,000
with the members but potentially instead
of transferring assets directly to the

545
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:18,480
city in that way maybe Seth you can
comment too is if this new joint

546
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:22,319
administrative bodies created transfer
our assets to the joint administrative

547
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:29,040
body which is then governed by whatever
the board looks like council member

548
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:32,880
doc's opinion uh comment sorry and then
if everything works out three years four

549
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:37,200
years whatever the time frame is then
that 2080 comes to a close city direct

550
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:40,640
cities in charge of the fire department
as I think everyone agreed was the

551
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:44,640
ultimate plan. If it doesn't work out
then basically you include disposal

552
00:46:42,720 --> 00:46:49,680
language in the 20 creating this joint
administrative agency that says if this

553
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:53,280
all breaks down then this you know the
assets go back to the fire company and

554
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:56,960
whatever that would look like. We'd have
to talk about that but would that make

555
00:46:55,040 --> 00:47:01,200
things any simpler at all? I guess it
would minimize this agency would then

556
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:04,079
kind of be doing the heavy lifting. It
would be doing the one holding the

557
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:08,400
assets. it would perhaps be doing the
one even hiring the chief and being in

558
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:13,359
charge of that. Would that simplify
things at all from an insurance

559
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:17,200
standpoint?
>> Well, so under that scenario, the fire

560
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:23,400
department would basically operate as it
does today with the oversight of

561
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:23,400
working, right? Um

562
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:33,800
assuming that's legally feasible. Um and
it's got the proper definition, I think

563
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:33,800
that's

564
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:47,040
Except um Daniel did maybe and maybe I
misunderstood. So um so you're saying

565
00:47:42,720 --> 00:47:52,319
creating a brand new entity that just
handles basically all the things that

566
00:47:49,119 --> 00:47:56,079
are we need clarity on from a complexity
standpoint and that entity would handle

567
00:47:54,319 --> 00:48:01,119
all of it so that it would make it less
complex from an insurance standpoint. So

568
00:47:58,079 --> 00:48:04,720
it' be a a brand new entity. Correct.
>> Correct. And that as Alison said, that's

569
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:07,680
what ultimately would happen in this
kind of context here. It just depends on

570
00:48:06,079 --> 00:48:10,880
what scope of authority we're going to
give to it. And I think that would be

571
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:15,119
something possibly worth considering
that might make things possibly a little

572
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:18,160
bit simpler and give the opportunity
with obviously my client having

573
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:21,440
representation on that board, the city
having representation on that board and

574
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:25,599
the benefited fire district being on
that board as well. um every member

575
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:29,280
having a seat at the table working
through conflicts hopefully building up

576
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:33,520
trust long term and if that ultimately
come which I think is again the goal

577
00:48:31,599 --> 00:48:37,599
would ultimately make things easier then
at the end is that joint administrative

578
00:48:35,359 --> 00:48:40,720
body transfers things to the city it
dissolves everybody then ultimately a

579
00:48:39,599 --> 00:48:45,680
new agreement would be needed between
the city and the fire district of course

580
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:49,359
for continued 280 uh excuse me for
continued fire protection

581
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:53,119
we still have to talk about what that
all looks like but I like I said I've

582
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:57,920
done that in at least a couple different
cities that have gone that route uh here

583
00:48:55,520 --> 00:49:01,359
in eastern Iowa that have ultimately
it's a little bit reversed in that case

584
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:05,920
the city owned the assets they had a
city department the fire department they

585
00:49:04,240 --> 00:49:08,880
got crossroads with each other and then
ultimately city transferred these assets

586
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:13,520
to this joint administrative board it
owned it insured it did all the stuff

587
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:17,680
for it had oversight over those things
uh and then ultimately you know the

588
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:21,200
budgets would be budgets would be
prepared by these new joint

589
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:26,400
administrative agency and then submitted
to the respective bodies In this case,

590
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:30,160
uh, Eldridge and the fire district for,
um, payment based off that. Of course,

591
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:35,040
Eldridge and the fire district would
have input on those things in terms of

592
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:38,480
what they could legally cover. I'm
throwing a lot out. I realize that now

593
00:49:36,559 --> 00:49:42,079
I'm just thinking of another ideas where
everyone's been discussing that might

594
00:49:40,240 --> 00:49:44,079
make possibly make things a little bit
simpler.

595
00:49:42,720 --> 00:49:47,200
» It It's intriguing. I think it's
different, Seth, from what you were

596
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:52,240
thinking is that it would just revert to
sort of the the model that Eldidge Fire

597
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:55,920
has now. You're talking about a brand
new I don't know what it would be. It's

598
00:49:54,319 --> 00:50:01,359
not a governmental entity. It's not a
501c3, but it's something that's

599
00:49:59,599 --> 00:50:03,599
separate from this entity and separate
from that entity and separate from the

600
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:07,280
county.
>> Correct. Yeah. Bas it is technically a

601
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:09,599
new governmental governmental agency as
Allison pointed out. That's that's

602
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:15,920
correct. It would be a new government
agency sub subject to um open records

603
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:19,680
law, public meetings, all that. But it
would exist within the confines of the

604
00:50:17,599 --> 00:50:24,160
28e. it wouldn't have a new corporate
structure uh that you might be familiar

605
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:28,160
with in terms of a nonprofit or anything
um like like that. So that's true. It

606
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:31,760
would be in that entity. I don't know if
you're familiar with the I know we're a

607
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:36,480
little bit but Musket Musketine
Musketine Communications it's emergency

608
00:50:34,559 --> 00:50:41,520
uh dispatch is is basically a joint
administrative 2080 entity. It exists by

609
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:45,920
a 2080 agreement between Musk County and
a couple other areas to handle it 911

610
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:48,800
and emergency services. That's kind of
what I'm thinking might be a

611
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:53,680
possibility. Sorry, I keep moving the
bike. Might be a possibility. Um, again,

612
00:50:52,240 --> 00:50:57,520
with the caveat is I'm I'm kind of
dumping this on my client thing right

613
00:50:55,520 --> 00:51:00,880
here at the meeting. Uh, so maybe it's
something we would want to talk more.

614
00:50:58,720 --> 00:51:05,880
» Oh, come on, Dave. What do you think?
>> No, I'm just kidding. Just kidding. It's

615
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:05,880
intriguing.

616
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:15,599
» I think the important thing is we have
options to try to get this resolved, you

617
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:18,720
know.
One might be a little more challenging

618
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:23,680
than the other, but it doesn't mean
that's not the right way to go. So, it's

619
00:51:21,839 --> 00:51:32,160
just crossing the tees and dotting the
eyes through the process.

620
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:36,160
But if we can't get this figured out and
the trust is reestablished, what

621
00:51:34,720 --> 00:51:41,359
whatever that text or whatever the
definition of that is, it's shame on all

622
00:51:38,720 --> 00:51:45,119
of us. We've got time. We've got willing
people sitting at the table trying to

623
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:49,680
fix that.
So I think there's different

624
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:54,720
possibilities. You probably need a flow
chart to figure some of this out to

625
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:57,760
insurance. Basically, if we go this
route, this is what we have to do. If we

626
00:51:56,079 --> 00:52:02,880
go this route, this is what has to be
done.

627
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:06,200
And we can figure it out, guys, from
both sides.

628
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:19,200
Scott, you messed by tonight.
Are we talking two years or three years?

629
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:23,280
Where is the two and three years are
coming about? Because that that's a big

630
00:52:21,359 --> 00:52:28,880
the big jump of a year and think a lot
of pursuits and they're going to want to

631
00:52:24,559 --> 00:52:33,359
know what's with that one year. So I'm
asking you know the three years from

632
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:36,359
your proposal where's that number coming
from?

633
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:47,440
I think typically it would be great to
look at a 30 6090, you know, as you're

634
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:53,119
deploying a new position. However, this
is obviously infinitely more complex.

635
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:58,240
I think by the time we get that new
chief hired, get things established and

636
00:52:55,920 --> 00:53:02,319
get into a cadence. I mean, by 12 months
from whenever this agreement launches,

637
00:52:59,920 --> 00:53:06,480
we probably will
may or may not have run through a budget

638
00:53:05,119 --> 00:53:11,920
cycle together. I think that would be
really important. But really, it's just

639
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:18,079
from an employment perspective, I think
hiring the chief and giving them a

640
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:22,640
longer runway of, you know, I think I
think I would be hesitant to take a

641
00:53:19,599 --> 00:53:27,119
position if I knew that in 12 months,
um, there was going to be an

642
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:32,319
organizational restructure guaranteed.
Um, so we just wanted to put a a bit of

643
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:37,599
a longer runway there that we felt would
be

644
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:40,720
just bring comfortability but not not as
the we're not going to talk for three

645
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:46,480
years and then we'll we'll see in three
years and we can re-evaluate. I mean to

646
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:50,319
to build benchmarks and and you know um
points to

647
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:55,440
reapproach and say hey what's working,
what's not working.

648
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:59,119
I think having you know clauses where we
can mutually agree to amend the

649
00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:03,760
agreement if we're finding that h you
know this expense for example would be

650
00:54:01,599 --> 00:54:08,640
more efficient in this bucket you know
let's do a little bit of a restructure

651
00:54:05,599 --> 00:54:12,319
or you know the the board needs
restructuring or a different cadence or

652
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:15,760
it needs oversight over this specific
area because we feel like there's a

653
00:54:14,240 --> 00:54:23,119
operational
blind spot right I think um having you

654
00:54:20,079 --> 00:54:28,480
know set parameter around, you know, a
12-month review, 18th month review as we

655
00:54:25,599 --> 00:54:31,920
go and, you know, keep the conversation
going. I think those are great

656
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:36,079
opportunities to
review. And I think it's going to give

657
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:40,720
the public a great um a great
opportunity also to see a lot of well,

658
00:54:39,359 --> 00:54:44,000
hopefully they don't pay attention to it
at all. That probably means that it's

659
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:47,280
working great. No one sees anything
online. I think that means that

660
00:54:45,839 --> 00:54:52,079
everyone's doing their job and that's
that's fantastic. So, um, but I think,

661
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:54,640
you know, for us, it'll just give us a
lot of opportunity, especially with some

662
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:59,200
of these ideas floating around tonight
about, you know, um, sort of mutual

663
00:54:57,040 --> 00:55:02,640
ownership over governance and what that
could potentially look like. I think

664
00:55:01,119 --> 00:55:06,800
that gives us a lot of opportunity for
collaboration and to build that rapport

665
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:11,200
and that trust back and and figure out
what that looks like more long term. As

666
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:16,400
things evolve and the community grows,
the needs will change and we'll kind of

667
00:55:13,599 --> 00:55:18,400
address that as it comes. That answer
that right?

668
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:24,480
» That's right. I mean, that's great
because um now I think the public will

669
00:55:20,720 --> 00:55:30,240
have that now that timeline to what to
uh to expect out of a three-year um time

670
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:34,559
frame. Does this say three years out
there and not have any you know detail

671
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:38,559
that would have been I have been
answering more questions than you know

672
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:42,800
or been asking more questions myself and
I didn't have the answer. So here that's

673
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:46,160
a great that's a great u thing for me to
take out to people I'm talking to saying

674
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:50,240
hey here's what's going to happen over
the next three years. I think uh the

675
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:54,000
people of our community will really
appreciate knowing that there is a plan

676
00:55:52,319 --> 00:56:00,160
not just we're throwing up random
numbers. So I I appreciate answer

677
00:55:56,960 --> 00:56:03,520
appreciate your answer and I'm had a lot
more clear idea what that three years

678
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:07,359
means. And I think I think we could
clearly define dates from you know

679
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:13,200
contract you know this is the initial
contract start term um you know and

680
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:17,680
schedule your calendar is 12 months from
today or whatever that is and actually

681
00:56:15,119 --> 00:56:21,599
set hard dates on you know when when
we're going to be coming back and doing

682
00:56:19,359 --> 00:56:25,839
a formal review and talking about it
from a public perspective and give them

683
00:56:23,119 --> 00:56:30,319
the opportunity to you know at least
optically be be in the room hear what's

684
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:33,119
going on hear what's working not working
and what needs to change I think that

685
00:56:31,599 --> 00:56:40,720
would be a great opportunity for them as
well. So, um, yeah, I think that should

686
00:56:36,559 --> 00:56:45,200
hopefully clarify that a bit.
>> Do you feel confident, Andrew, that

687
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:50,640
you'll be able to hire a sheep?
Yeah, I mean I think again that mutual

688
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:55,680
ownership over
I think the idea was always to have you

689
00:56:52,960 --> 00:57:00,160
know some sort of joint hiring effort
you know and having you guys vet the

690
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:02,960
candidates for example you know we can
have conversations with some of the

691
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:06,240
candidate we already have a good scope
of candidates for example have those

692
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:10,160
conversations and have you guys bet
through those and if they're willing

693
00:57:08,240 --> 00:57:17,760
like yeah absolutely I think you know
we've got a lot of uh great insight ight

694
00:57:14,240 --> 00:57:23,200
into sorts of qualities that we would be
looking for in that role and and what

695
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:27,200
our expectations would be and I think
we'll uh I think we'll be able to

696
00:57:25,119 --> 00:57:31,000
mutually land on a great a great uh
great chief of that position.

697
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:39,599
» Well, one thing I'll disagree with is
the the three years. Um and if you you

698
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:44,960
stop and think back, we had we talked
about it a year and a half or so ago. if

699
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:51,280
we wouldn't have gone through the past
um mess that it would have been a

700
00:57:48,319 --> 00:57:57,359
turnover would have been issues. Um in
my mind two things number one

701
00:57:54,880 --> 00:58:03,920
I think we're creating a lot of
complexity in order to fix the trust

702
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:11,920
issues which is needed clearly. Um but I
also feel that um if 18 months ago or 12

703
00:58:09,359 --> 00:58:19,839
months ago that trust was not lost, why
is it going to take three years to fix

704
00:58:14,079 --> 00:58:24,240
it? Is my mind and and I truly believe
I'm on the opposite opinion. I think

705
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:28,000
that that
um 12 month and I agree 12 months

706
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:30,559
probably but by the time everything gets
set up and you go through the process,

707
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:36,160
you don't know how that's going to look.
It might take four or 5 months to get a

708
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:44,000
chief in position. But, you know, could
that be done in 12 to 24 months? Um, if

709
00:58:42,079 --> 00:58:48,799
if my
um thinking is right, I think that ideal

710
00:58:46,559 --> 00:58:53,760
chief's going to want to have an end
date. They're going to come in here

711
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:58,799
knowing that the goal is to transition
into a city entity. And to have that 3

712
00:58:57,280 --> 00:59:03,440
years out, that's that's kind of a long
time that you're hoping and and you're,

713
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:06,079
you know, he's already going to have his
hands full or she's going to have her

714
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:12,640
hands full with whatever they're doing,
trying to to um come in and take over

715
00:59:09,359 --> 00:59:19,200
that that command of the department. So,
I think the right chief, I think that

716
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:24,559
right relationship with the members, um
I think that's what's going to heal the

717
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:29,520
problems. Um, obviously the city has a
part to play in that, but I I just don't

718
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:33,040
see it necessary to push this out for
years and I don't like the complexity of

719
00:59:31,119 --> 00:59:39,359
it. I mean, I'm looking at different
case laws from going back to 2019 and as

720
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:43,119
much as you want to sign away liability,
the city's assuming it. And then on top

721
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:47,440
of that, that's additional cost that
we're we're encountering there, that's

722
00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:51,920
additional liability for potential for
making mistakes. and we've been trying

723
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:58,400
to fix the fact that we're constantly
getting sued. Um, we're trying to fix

724
00:59:55,440 --> 01:00:01,760
potential of not having a renewal for
the insurance company. These are all

725
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:08,559
things that I'm taking in account here
on top of this is that if this is a

726
01:00:05,839 --> 01:00:12,640
mission that we've set forward to do, I
think stretching that mission out over

727
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:17,760
three years is just not a it's not a
smart move in my opinion. Well, maybe

728
01:00:15,359 --> 01:00:22,000
the first compromise that we consider is
compromising the split between both

729
01:00:19,839 --> 01:00:26,000
proposals, which one proposal is at 12
months, the other proposals at 36

730
01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:30,480
months. Maybe we consider a 24-month
proposal to

731
01:00:28,319 --> 01:00:34,480
each give a little bit as we heard a
little bit earlier and have some

732
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:37,359
provisions maybe that uh Andrew was
alluding to it in other ways I think but

733
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:43,839
you know we could have some provisions
that if things are going well we could

734
01:00:40,799 --> 01:00:46,960
look at uh making that transition
happening sooner if we think we've hit

735
01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:52,440
the benchmarks that everybody's happy
with. Um so maybe that's an option.

736
01:00:55,119 --> 01:00:59,839
Yeah, I think um just from a
comfortability standpoint, moving

737
01:00:58,319 --> 01:01:05,359
through a couple budget cycles would be
great. Um so a term that would stretch

738
01:01:03,119 --> 01:01:11,280
across even two, I think would be
helpful. Just again, I think no one here

739
01:01:09,359 --> 01:01:16,160
tonight can make any decisions. You guys
can't. We can't either. We both have to

740
01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:21,760
discuss and you know, ideate amongst our
bodies here. Um, and so ultimately we're

741
01:01:19,119 --> 01:01:26,240
just trying to bring back what we feel
is going to retain the create the most

742
01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:31,359
comfortability and and retain the
highest number of folks. And so I think

743
01:01:28,799 --> 01:01:35,599
just getting through a couple at least a
couple budget cycles where they can see,

744
01:01:33,119 --> 01:01:41,280
okay, things are properly being properly
funded. we're not being, you know, we're

745
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:45,680
not short-handed on assets or or or
resources that we truly need, but that's

746
01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:50,640
a responsible and then seeing that in
practice um over at least at least two

747
01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:56,079
cycles, I think would be really helpful.
So that that's I think where we're kind

748
01:01:52,720 --> 01:02:01,280
of shooting for that term. Um but you
know, again, if things are going great

749
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:05,359
and we want to review ahead of time and
eventually decide to make a change, then

750
01:02:03,599 --> 01:02:09,240
so be it. That's I think that's a great
outcome also. So

751
01:02:11,119 --> 01:02:18,799
» these documents they mirror each other
rather

752
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:22,799
to mirror the evidence reflection one
maybe along with the other but they

753
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:28,480
still have the similar ideologies for
protecting the city of Elbridge and

754
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:33,040
providing services both fire and EMS.
One important thing that that occurred

755
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:38,240
tonight was the questions regarding the
28

756
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:43,920
which we are um operating like we do
have one but we don't officially have

757
01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:49,599
one now according to Alison so thank you
came about that was a new governing body

758
01:02:47,119 --> 01:02:55,760
a board which legal representation
Daniel there so

759
01:02:52,000 --> 01:03:01,760
be will be on board as well I I believe
that is a strong catalyst for us as we

760
01:02:58,079 --> 01:03:06,880
move forward with with those because we
have parties on both sides that will be

761
01:03:05,119 --> 01:03:10,799
together that will work together. So I
think that's I think that's one huge key

762
01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:15,839
that occurred tonight regarding these
discussions uh regarding time link and

763
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:21,039
so forth. It be not to say that we have
to go three years but at least this this

764
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:26,240
gives us a a a time frame and a way to
transition in there and that'll be

765
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:31,119
transitions can't be made throughout
there but knowing that hey at 3 years

766
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:36,160
this this this whole transition needs to
take place. If it gets done sooner, bad

767
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:41,280
news. But if it doesn't, we know that we
are at the table and this new governing

768
01:03:38,079 --> 01:03:45,039
board working collectively together to
ensure that the best interest for not

769
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:49,599
only the citizens but also the
individuals of the city that that this

770
01:03:47,119 --> 01:03:54,000
is this is coming together from a legal
standpoint, from an insurance

771
01:03:50,960 --> 01:04:00,000
standpoint. We we we have everybody we
have everybody here and

772
01:03:57,119 --> 01:04:04,720
and with what what was saying here we
may not know what that really looks like

773
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:07,599
right now and what what insurance it's
going to it's going to look like what

774
01:04:06,079 --> 01:04:12,799
cost it's going to look like too until
we get this proposal down but I believe

775
01:04:10,079 --> 01:04:17,119
with this governing board I feel that
that would help help us out a lot you

776
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:22,640
know with that and and
possibly you know reduce any type of

777
01:04:19,839 --> 01:04:27,920
liability with us had to move forward
with this. So great, great idea, Alison.

778
01:04:25,599 --> 01:04:34,160
Thank you for for your for your input
and thank you Dan for you adding that as

779
01:04:31,599 --> 01:04:38,960
well. So I think that's very important.
>> I just want to say on on the on the

780
01:04:36,240 --> 01:04:44,799
legal side of it, I I would express some
concerns about creating a new body.

781
01:04:42,319 --> 01:04:49,119
Chapter 280 commands with the city and
the county do this in the most efficient

782
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:52,400
way possible. And so creating a new body
that has to go through all their

783
01:04:50,559 --> 01:04:58,079
requirements and comply with chapter 1
and chapter chapter 21, chapter 22,

784
01:04:55,039 --> 01:05:01,200
those are not small legal requirements.
You'd have new individuals who may or

785
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:05,359
may not be properly trained on that.
There's a lot of complexities to that.

786
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:11,520
Those are lawsuits that involve attorney
fees and significant liability. And so

787
01:05:08,799 --> 01:05:15,520
creating another, you know, target um
for that new training requirements as

788
01:05:13,680 --> 01:05:20,079
opposed to public bodies who are already
operating and functioning within those

789
01:05:17,359 --> 01:05:24,720
realms to me would be a conversation to
have as to whether or not the council

790
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:28,720
views that as effective efficiency. Um
I'm hearing, you know, sort of goals

791
01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:34,079
that are aligning with regard to
efficiency or simplicity and an ultimate

792
01:05:31,520 --> 01:05:39,280
transition to a city department and if a
chief, you know, is hired. things I

793
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:43,760
would ask on the employment side that be
at least considered is if you hire a

794
01:05:42,079 --> 01:05:47,760
chief and they're intended to go from a
nonprofit environment, that's very

795
01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:52,240
different than a municipal environment.
Um, different rules, different

796
01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:58,319
regulations, you're not training them to
work and operate a city department on

797
01:05:55,599 --> 01:06:01,680
all in all respects. Um, if you're going
to mirror a city department and mirror

798
01:06:00,240 --> 01:06:08,319
those requirements and that's the
direction of the chief, that's not going

799
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:13,760
to fit entirely in a nonprofit.
Um, so if that is the command, you know,

800
01:06:11,119 --> 01:06:18,880
I would ask and recommend that there be
some consideration as to if a chief is

801
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:23,119
hired into that structure and they are,
you know, told to create and make

802
01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:27,119
policies, what are those policies and
are they they're for the nonprofit or

803
01:06:25,200 --> 01:06:31,760
are we creating those for a short period
of time, one, two, three years, um, or

804
01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:35,520
are you building a city department, but
it's not fully functioning because we're

805
01:06:33,039 --> 01:06:39,359
in a nonprofit environment. um and
whether or not that's in the interest of

806
01:06:37,359 --> 01:06:44,720
efficiency the best use of a chief's
time. And then to the fire department's

807
01:06:41,599 --> 01:06:50,480
point about hiring a qualified candidate
who's interested in some sort of a

808
01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:54,079
forecasted or guaranteed reorganization,
um if the plan is hire, work in the

809
01:06:52,559 --> 01:06:57,760
nonprofit environment, different
supervisors, different structure,

810
01:06:55,760 --> 01:07:02,640
different government, different rules,
and then in one, two, or three years

811
01:06:59,599 --> 01:07:06,160
you're transitioning here, um will that
impact your candidate pool? and is that

812
01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:10,160
an efficient use of resources and
taxpayer funds, especially when on the

813
01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:13,039
city side, you know, we really are dual
funding that we're funding the insurance

814
01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:17,039
for the city. We're funding the
insurance for the volunteer fired

815
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:21,599
company. So, I think just giving a lot
of thought to actually implementing what

816
01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:27,760
those structures look like and just
reminding yourself that chapter 280

817
01:07:24,079 --> 01:07:31,680
requires you to come up with a plan in
the interest of efficiency. And if the

818
01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:35,680
plan is to go towards a city department
and that's everyone's collective goal,

819
01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:38,720
you know, look at what resources are
being expended during this transition

820
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:42,640
community and make sure they align with
that.

821
01:07:41,039 --> 01:07:46,400
» You make a great point, Allison, about
the complexity that we're creating. You

822
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:50,960
know, we're creating all this just
because the lack of trust that that's

823
01:07:49,200 --> 01:07:57,400
kind of where we're at because you
gentlemen have told us that if we would

824
01:07:52,559 --> 01:07:57,400
have created a department a year ago,

825
01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:07,920
call.
Okay, you guys good?

826
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:11,839
» Yeah.
>> Okay, I got a crew. I mean, you guys

827
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:16,719
have told us that if we would have
created this department a year ago, we

828
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:20,319
would have been 100% on board. Um, and
so now we got to figure out it's been

829
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:24,719
about lack of trust. And I kind of go
back to what Ryan said earlier. Um, I

830
01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:31,120
think it would be so much easier than
creating this complexity

831
01:08:27,440 --> 01:08:34,640
of your governmental body if we would uh
just address the trust issue a little

832
01:08:32,719 --> 01:08:39,600
bit. I think that would that would go a
long ways and our time would be better

833
01:08:36,239 --> 01:08:48,319
spent. We knew what we did wrong in the
last 6 8 10 months. You know, we would

834
01:08:44,319 --> 01:08:53,040
be better off. I again I I think walking
down relitigating the last 15 months

835
01:08:51,040 --> 01:08:56,880
when we know where things went wrong
pretty well I think is a is a bit of a

836
01:08:55,520 --> 01:09:00,560
waste of time.
>> I think it's we don't know what went

837
01:08:58,480 --> 01:09:05,600
wrong. I I think you do though. We've
had conversations about it u at length

838
01:09:03,839 --> 01:09:09,359
about
things that I mean you've even by your

839
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:12,000
own admission said I really wish I
hadn't said that. you've said that

840
01:09:10,400 --> 01:09:16,400
publicly and I appreciate you've said
that but we can't pretend that it wasn't

841
01:09:14,080 --> 01:09:22,719
said and I think you know to to
Allison's point yes working in a path of

842
01:09:20,080 --> 01:09:28,880
efficiency is the responsibility
honestly of everyone here but I would

843
01:09:25,839 --> 01:09:33,679
rather as a taxpayer take on you know
maybe some additional insurance expense

844
01:09:31,359 --> 01:09:37,759
rather than a million dollars annually
in labor and I think when we talk about

845
01:09:35,520 --> 01:09:41,199
efficiency that's the other side of the
consideration because that's really

846
01:09:39,359 --> 01:09:44,960
what's at risk here. That's what we're
trying to

847
01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:50,000
move through to is keeping the
membership

848
01:09:46,480 --> 01:09:54,320
um volunteer for as long as humanly
possible because that is what's going to

849
01:09:52,080 --> 01:10:00,080
be the most
um the most efficient use of taxpayer

850
01:09:57,760 --> 01:10:04,480
funds. We can if we can retain that for
as long as possible. So if we need to

851
01:10:02,640 --> 01:10:11,120
create a little bit of complexity and
and put in the work to do that and that

852
01:10:09,199 --> 01:10:17,280
the offset of that is that we can retain
that volunteer structure longer. I think

853
01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:21,000
that's an effort well undertook and and
well worth its time.

854
01:10:30,480 --> 01:10:36,640
I think one thing that hasn't been
discussed, we we keep toddling around

855
01:10:34,480 --> 01:10:40,560
with eventually being a municipal
department. There are several

856
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:46,560
departments within the Hawaii cities
that are as we're talking about that are

857
01:10:43,920 --> 01:10:50,960
managed with the volunteer staff and the
fire department. If we get to this

858
01:10:48,880 --> 01:10:55,520
two-year mark, which we're discussing,
and things are going great and things

859
01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:59,920
are moving along well, it goes back to a
comment that's been made in the past. If

860
01:10:57,040 --> 01:11:05,040
it's not broken, why fix it? I think if
we move forward and it's doing well and

861
01:11:02,719 --> 01:11:09,360
we're moving well and we've got, you
know, the legal aspects in mind, we've

862
01:11:07,199 --> 01:11:13,679
got the insurance aspects in mind, and
it's working well as a hybrid

863
01:11:10,880 --> 01:11:19,840
department, why change it? I look back
in Bentonorf, they were up to 37,000

864
01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:23,520
people before they had five full-time
firefighters.

865
01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:28,960
I don't see us going there in the near
future. Um, just to put that in

866
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:34,159
perspective, we have a great volunteer
program. I think the question that I

867
01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:39,280
really have on this board and as a
community member is what are we doing to

868
01:11:37,360 --> 01:11:44,560
get the upstairs finished? because it
really doesn't matter which side is

869
01:11:41,440 --> 01:11:49,760
managing this process. The upstairs is
critical for all parties. I think one of

870
01:11:47,760 --> 01:11:54,719
the things we're missing out on if we
move away from the volunteer side is a

871
01:11:52,239 --> 01:11:59,000
lot of the federal funding which is then
going to also affect taxpayers.

872
01:12:05,360 --> 01:12:12,480
It appears to me that we both all both
sides have discussions to have.

873
01:12:11,280 --> 01:12:15,520
I don't know how we can do that at a
public meeting

874
01:12:14,480 --> 01:12:21,840
how we're going to do that moving
forward. Um I would take suggestions

875
01:12:19,840 --> 01:12:28,120
if all council members are present. It
has to be done in a public meeting.

876
01:12:23,760 --> 01:12:28,120
Correct. Um

877
01:12:29,199 --> 01:12:35,840
yeah. I mean, I also understand Pat's
point. If we get this leveled out from

878
01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:43,199
the way it used to be, everything's
running efficient.

879
01:12:38,719 --> 01:12:48,480
Do we have to change it right away?
Well, I think you probably need to

880
01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:52,320
decide that before you set up
a document and hire a chief because

881
01:12:50,480 --> 01:12:57,760
that's going to be important to how the
whole structure set up. So, I mean, this

882
01:12:55,360 --> 01:13:03,280
is new, and I'm not saying it's not a a
terrible idea, but, you know, this

883
01:13:00,159 --> 01:13:08,719
started with
the fire department wanting to have the

884
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:14,560
city get involved. I think it I think
that's a dangerous move um to look at

885
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:19,040
getting partially through a cycle and
then all of a sudden you're changing

886
01:13:16,400 --> 01:13:23,679
your goal post. And I don't think that's
I don't think that creates a safe

887
01:13:20,719 --> 01:13:27,840
environment for anybody. Um I would not
feel comfortable as a representative of

888
01:13:25,679 --> 01:13:33,600
the city um trying to fiscally be
responsible with how the taxpayers money

889
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:38,239
spent, how the budgets performed. Um I
certainly would not be excited about

890
01:13:35,120 --> 01:13:42,560
that if I was um a candidate looking to
come out here. I think that's going to

891
01:13:39,760 --> 01:13:48,800
play a big big factor. I think what
eight nine applications and they're all

892
01:13:47,199 --> 01:13:54,080
they're good applications. I think
that's going to change that pool. Um and

893
01:13:51,760 --> 01:14:01,560
again
this hasn't been discussed for this

894
01:13:56,800 --> 01:14:01,560
entire process. So I guess

895
01:14:03,280 --> 01:14:12,640
I think I didn't know we had nine. I
haven't seen any of them. But you know I

896
01:14:09,600 --> 01:14:18,320
think we should ask those candidates
two things. if this affects,

897
01:14:15,840 --> 01:14:25,440
you know, their outlook and if we can
share their applications with fire,

898
01:14:23,679 --> 01:14:29,840
there might be somebody in there that
everybody's

899
01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:33,080
100% agreeable to, which could also
change just

900
01:14:34,400 --> 01:14:41,760
and in the U and all
all respect

901
01:14:40,719 --> 01:14:46,239
moving forward.
And I

902
01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:50,159
regarding the don fire department I
believe there was some members and maybe

903
01:14:48,080 --> 01:14:56,480
council members and I don't recall names
or one but that that doesn't matter

904
01:14:54,640 --> 01:15:01,520
to put it out there maybe hire the chief
but that that chief oversee that project

905
01:14:59,199 --> 01:15:07,120
but all due respect if we have funding
right now we know that this is going to

906
01:15:03,199 --> 01:15:11,600
be a catalyst to get more recruits
and what that funding looks like can be

907
01:15:09,280 --> 01:15:15,840
allowed is it okay
not the king. This is the this is the

908
01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:20,080
entity right now. Maybe give him
permission as we move forward with this

909
01:15:17,440 --> 01:15:24,560
to get votes or to kind of look at that
layup so you get that so you can get

910
01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:28,239
that going. So so at least started when
that cheap does come come about. Maybe

911
01:15:26,159 --> 01:15:32,640
it's built by then maybe it's not but at
least it's it's it's going it's going in

912
01:15:30,239 --> 01:15:37,520
the right direction and then that can
that can spur some some potential

913
01:15:34,320 --> 01:15:41,520
growth. So can we is it okay? Can we at
least agree on that?

914
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:50,000
I mean I don't know has has any firms
has has anybody first of all has any

915
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:56,280
firms come out to look at that? Have you
guys presented any type of ideas any

916
01:15:52,080 --> 01:15:56,280
type of blueprints any type of drawings?

917
01:15:57,440 --> 01:16:01,760
» Technically we already voted on and
approved it.

918
01:16:00,480 --> 01:16:07,280
» We did that.
>> We did that in July I believe. Right.

919
01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:11,360
» So So to your question Adrian we've
already approved it. We don't need to

920
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:16,880
vote again. Um, we did it at the same
time that we initiated the ordinance uh

921
01:16:14,640 --> 01:16:18,880
being creative. I think it was that
night.

922
01:16:17,679 --> 01:16:24,159
» Not that we have to vote, but just to
give them just the courtesy of just

923
01:16:21,040 --> 01:16:28,880
respectfully to move forward.
>> I don't think that they need the council

924
01:16:26,719 --> 01:16:34,560
permission to get estimates.
>> No, we we've started that process um and

925
01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:37,360
can kind of stay in communication with
you as we start to pull bids for what

926
01:16:36,159 --> 01:16:42,000
that's going to look like. And I think
there is a little bit of question we

927
01:16:39,920 --> 01:16:44,400
answered.
>> Oh, probably.

928
01:16:42,719 --> 01:16:48,560
» Okay. So, we would need to work with the
city a little bit because I think there

929
01:16:45,679 --> 01:16:53,840
was some ambiguity around the potential
need for an elevator which obviously

930
01:16:51,120 --> 01:17:00,840
would add significant expense.
>> So, I could work with the city on that.

931
01:16:56,880 --> 01:17:00,840
That would be helpful as well.

932
01:17:01,040 --> 01:17:05,199
» Thank you.
>> Only go up, right? Because you hear they

933
01:17:03,440 --> 01:17:09,679
have a poll about that, right?
>> It only goes up. What's up? Well, back

934
01:17:08,480 --> 01:17:13,760
to your point, I just want to say I
think we probably do need to have an

935
01:17:10,960 --> 01:17:18,960
endgame. I appreciate the idea of, hey,
if it's not broke by the time we get to

936
01:17:15,920 --> 01:17:24,400
whatever the time period is, why mess
with it? Um, however, I think we all

937
01:17:22,159 --> 01:17:30,320
need to be clear on where we're going.
Um, and I think if the idea is that

938
01:17:28,800 --> 01:17:33,600
we're not having a fully municipal
department like what Bentonorf

939
01:17:31,600 --> 01:17:37,920
eventually has turned into, but more of
a hybrid department, more of like what

940
01:17:35,679 --> 01:17:43,600
we know other smaller communities
likelair have. I think that's the hybrid

941
01:17:42,159 --> 01:17:50,560
municipal department that we're all
looking at, not a fully staffed um,

942
01:17:47,600 --> 01:17:54,560
fully employed municipal department
within two years. I I agree with you. I

943
01:17:53,040 --> 01:17:57,440
don't think that's I I don't think
that's the direction that we're going.

944
01:17:55,760 --> 01:18:02,239
But I do think that we're looking at
that hybrid where the city has

945
01:18:00,640 --> 01:18:08,360
responsibility for everything, but the
volunteers are still the there's still

946
01:18:04,880 --> 01:18:08,360
the point of sword.

947
01:18:09,440 --> 01:18:15,760
I guess my question is I'm sure everyone
is looking at their clocks and figuring

948
01:18:13,760 --> 01:18:20,000
out when we're going to wrap it up. What
would be

949
01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:25,679
next steps both sides? What was
actionable items that we can both take

950
01:18:23,040 --> 01:18:30,000
away from this and then set a review to
come back? Is it I mean I think there's

951
01:18:27,520 --> 01:18:35,520
a couple things we need to discuss. of
the term length. I think there's um some

952
01:18:33,679 --> 01:18:43,920
discussion around that and you know
potentially maybe we both um work with

953
01:18:39,679 --> 01:18:50,320
legal counsel and Seth here to present a
couple potential options for how that

954
01:18:46,320 --> 01:18:54,480
joint board um would look potentially
and the insurability that would go with

955
01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:58,719
that and what would be cleanest from
that perspective. then maybe we can

956
01:18:56,000 --> 01:19:01,920
bring back those findings and have a
discussion based on the results of that

957
01:19:00,800 --> 01:19:07,280
that scene.
>> That's what I had done. I had to have

958
01:19:03,280 --> 01:19:09,280
timing. I had um I had how the what the
difference is between this

959
01:19:08,000 --> 01:19:13,520
administrative board and what this
administrative entity that you talked

960
01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:18,880
about is um how we move forward. It
seems to me um and if I'm out of bounds

961
01:19:16,400 --> 01:19:23,840
here, your honor, please tell me. Um it
seems to me it might make sense for um

962
01:19:21,679 --> 01:19:29,199
Allison and Daniel and Seth to have a
conversation about how that can be done

963
01:19:26,400 --> 01:19:33,920
in some way that's very
clear if it can be done in a very

964
01:19:31,600 --> 01:19:38,159
clarified way with as little complexity
as possible because it sounds like our

965
01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:44,480
our biggest challenge in that regard is
is that it has to be exceptionally clear

966
01:19:41,360 --> 01:19:51,760
um so that liability, governance,
accountability is all covered so that if

967
01:19:47,679 --> 01:19:54,800
something goes wrong, we know um we can
we know what the expectations are as to

968
01:19:53,679 --> 01:19:59,920
what's going to be covered and who's
going to be responsible in some way. Is

969
01:19:56,400 --> 01:20:04,239
that fair? But I think for us to sit
here, it's it's really you three that

970
01:20:02,320 --> 01:20:09,760
probably need to have some conversation
about whether that oversight board or

971
01:20:07,040 --> 01:20:13,920
whether that oversight entity um is an
option and then let us take a look at

972
01:20:11,440 --> 01:20:17,920
that. Then Andrew, maybe let you guys
talk about timing and how hiring the

973
01:20:16,159 --> 01:20:22,800
chief works and let us maybe do the same
thing in I don't know some sort of

974
01:20:19,440 --> 01:20:25,920
format or or you know let Ryan and the
mayor or Ryan and Brian and the mayor

975
01:20:24,239 --> 01:20:29,360
kind of work that framework and see how
that looks and let the council take a

976
01:20:27,679 --> 01:20:33,080
look at it and then come together for
another discussion.

977
01:20:33,280 --> 01:20:41,280
Does that sound reasonable?
>> It does. I I think

978
01:20:38,159 --> 01:20:45,840
for sure the two attorneys need to talk.
Now granted, the fire department's going

979
01:20:43,199 --> 01:20:48,560
to incur more costs that will be we
paying, but we have to get this right.

980
01:20:47,760 --> 01:20:52,480
» Right.
>> You know, is there an avenue through

981
01:20:50,320 --> 01:20:57,520
2018 agreements without forming that
other oversight board?

982
01:20:55,760 --> 01:21:02,400
You know, those are the questions I
don't know.

983
01:20:59,199 --> 01:21:06,800
Um, yes, Seth has to be involved. Very
familiar with additionally insured

984
01:21:04,880 --> 01:21:12,800
accord certificates and all that fun
stuff that you deal with.

985
01:21:09,280 --> 01:21:16,960
Um, if two entities have to ensure the
same

986
01:21:14,480 --> 01:21:22,719
apparatus, yes, we will have an
additional cost for a short period, but

987
01:21:20,320 --> 01:21:29,040
we don't recover
uh the 24 months or two years versus

988
01:21:26,719 --> 01:21:36,000
three years. Um, I believe your guys's
fiscal year is uh January 1 to December

989
01:21:32,480 --> 01:21:42,960
31 where ours is July 1 to the end of
June. So it might be a weird number. It

990
01:21:40,560 --> 01:21:47,360
could be
30 months

991
01:21:44,960 --> 01:21:51,920
something. We have a budget cycle coming
up. We're going to be starting that

992
01:21:48,719 --> 01:21:57,199
process here in about 3 months. We can
have communications back and forth and

993
01:21:54,159 --> 01:22:03,120
maybe try try for lack of other
terminology a dry run on your budget to

994
01:22:00,400 --> 01:22:10,239
see how that looks. But if it is
something like 30 months, it'll get the

995
01:22:06,560 --> 01:22:14,880
timing to get two complete cycles in. I
mean, it might be 28 months because

996
01:22:12,639 --> 01:22:19,199
we're already in September, but
something like that. But I'm glad that

997
01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:24,639
we're all willing to at least sit down
and discuss the options

998
01:22:22,639 --> 01:22:30,400
because all of us like I said everybody
at this table or specifically the

999
01:22:26,639 --> 01:22:34,320
council members we have to make a choice
you guys have to make a choice we both

1000
01:22:32,159 --> 01:22:37,560
have to make a choice what's right for
the citizens

1001
01:22:37,679 --> 01:22:47,120
you know and if it is whatever I said 28
or 30 months doesn't if everything's

1002
01:22:43,520 --> 01:22:52,000
going smooth a it could potentially stay
the same or b you guys might vote you're

1003
01:22:49,920 --> 01:22:58,080
comfortable with everything and say
let's transition to the city paying the

1004
01:22:54,960 --> 01:23:01,400
per call and that kind of stuff and we
still have options.

1005
01:23:03,440 --> 01:23:10,080
Um Allison, I think one of the things
that I'm just concerned from the

1006
01:23:07,440 --> 01:23:13,600
backside that you guys when you talk and
I'm sure Seth would be included in this,

1007
01:23:11,600 --> 01:23:19,600
I just want to make sure when you're
talking about the the overall obligation

1008
01:23:16,560 --> 01:23:23,920
that the city has, you know, in terms of
um even if we're held to harmless, that

1009
01:23:22,159 --> 01:23:32,320
we're still liable for that fire
suppression. And it even goes into

1010
01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:35,920
detail in in code uh 670.2 to um and
employee definition of employees even

1011
01:23:34,480 --> 01:23:40,000
whether direct or indirect. I just want
to make sure that all that's very clear

1012
01:23:37,440 --> 01:23:44,159
when you're looking at the the insurance
and then the level of risk that we're

1013
01:23:42,320 --> 01:23:48,880
doing. And that's another reason too,
guys. I I don't like the level of risk

1014
01:23:47,040 --> 01:23:52,800
even if it's 12 months. I mean, if we
extend it to let's say we agree upon 24

1015
01:23:51,600 --> 01:23:57,199
months or whatever that looks like. To
me, that's just it's unnecessary

1016
01:23:55,520 --> 01:24:02,480
exposure that we really want to look at
limiting. Um so that's my only that's my

1017
01:24:00,560 --> 01:24:08,239
two cents on that. um with with our
budget cycle currently um if we did a a

1018
01:24:06,719 --> 01:24:11,920
24month
transitional period would would they be

1019
01:24:10,320 --> 01:24:14,800
able to sit through they be able to sit
through two of them or they would

1020
01:24:13,120 --> 01:24:22,000
probably just fall behind on the first
one but if we're in September so that

1021
01:24:19,600 --> 01:24:26,800
budget uh we'll still be working on that
through

1022
01:24:23,520 --> 01:24:32,159
March March April
>> goes to the state in April

1023
01:24:29,760 --> 01:24:35,360
» just as an idea And but again, I like
the idea that regardless of where we're

1024
01:24:33,840 --> 01:24:38,480
at, if you you're sitting through that
process, I think that's that's

1025
01:24:36,960 --> 01:24:41,280
important. I don't you probably know
numbers better than me, but I was

1026
01:24:39,840 --> 01:24:48,040
completely confused my first time
sitting through it. It's easier to

1027
01:24:43,760 --> 01:24:48,040
understand the more times you do it.

1028
01:24:48,480 --> 01:24:56,159
So, I'm hearing that we'll have Daniel
and Allison get together and talk and

1029
01:24:53,360 --> 01:24:59,920
you maybe step if necessary to see
what's possible and then maybe Allison

1030
01:24:58,400 --> 01:25:04,400
you can bring some recommendations back
to us after your discussions with that

1031
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:07,360
and thoughts on that and then we as the
council can figure out what our next

1032
01:25:05,920 --> 01:25:11,440
steps might be.
>> Can can we put a two date on that

1033
01:25:08,880 --> 01:25:17,840
figure? We need to put a schedule
another committee to full meeting like

1034
01:25:13,600 --> 01:25:22,719
this whether 3 weeks is reasonable, two
weeks, four weeks but we have to have a

1035
01:25:19,840 --> 01:25:29,600
date. I mean, also at our next council
meeting, the

1036
01:25:26,159 --> 01:25:35,480
ordinances that we tabled, we need to
come up and turn those down, get them on

1037
01:25:32,480 --> 01:25:35,480
to

1038
01:25:39,920 --> 01:25:45,920
» Is that the wish of the council?
>> Absolutely. No more than a month. But I

1039
01:25:44,000 --> 01:25:49,840
think the sooner the better. You know,
obviously it's going to be around your

1040
01:25:48,159 --> 01:25:53,440
schedule what you know type of
communications you're going to have. But

1041
01:25:51,120 --> 01:25:56,480
I don't we we've got to keep rapidly
moving forward. And I think that every

1042
01:25:54,960 --> 01:26:00,320
time we have a meeting like this, we
need to set another date. I don't want

1043
01:25:58,480 --> 01:26:06,760
to I don't want to wait for feedback. I
want to keep setting dates and keep you

1044
01:26:03,440 --> 01:26:06,760
moving forward.

1045
01:26:07,360 --> 01:26:17,600
I mean, we could do that our first uh
we'll meet again October, do we not?

1046
01:26:14,239 --> 01:26:22,719
» Yes, we could.
>> If uh legal representation has enough

1047
01:26:20,480 --> 01:26:26,960
time to discuss and get through it, I
mean, if they're comfortable, we can

1048
01:26:24,080 --> 01:26:32,639
shoot for that and hopefully they can
communicate back and forth and come up

1049
01:26:29,920 --> 01:26:37,280
with some options. At least then we have
a a timeline or a goal. It's not that I

1050
01:26:35,520 --> 01:26:40,800
don't enjoy all the quality time that
we've spent together in Missouri once.

1051
01:26:39,600 --> 01:26:44,639
But if we can get it back onto our
regular schedule and and if that works

1052
01:26:42,880 --> 01:26:48,719
for you guys, that'd be great. And if it
doesn't, then you have the option, I

1053
01:26:46,320 --> 01:26:52,159
guess, or call another special committee
that will

1054
01:26:50,880 --> 01:26:56,239
» I agree with you, Brian. If it if it
fits in the background, if they can man,

1055
01:26:54,639 --> 01:27:00,880
I'm not quite you're dismissing the
opening night event.

1056
01:26:58,880 --> 01:27:07,480
» Your honor, if I may, when is that first
cow meeting in October? We have

1057
01:27:03,760 --> 01:27:07,480
» I believe it's Monday.

1058
01:27:10,560 --> 01:27:16,040
» You said your honor and city
administrator answered you.

1059
01:27:17,199 --> 01:27:26,719
» I'm staying out of that.
>> Any other comments for anybody?

1060
01:27:23,040 --> 01:27:32,480
» We clear on where we're going. So RB is
is that right now tentatively we are

1061
01:27:29,679 --> 01:27:35,600
doing the committee a whole on the 5th
that would be the same night as a

1062
01:27:33,760 --> 01:27:40,800
regular schedule correct council meeting
>> if Allison and Daniel can get together

1063
01:27:38,159 --> 01:27:44,560
» would you be I mean I obviously we don't
know what's going to be on the agenda

1064
01:27:41,920 --> 01:27:50,320
and so for since this is important and
it's it's taking almost two hours do we

1065
01:27:47,120 --> 01:27:56,800
need to have the CO on the 7th instead
if everybody's available just

1066
01:27:54,960 --> 01:27:59,920
Let's wait and see how fast Allison and
Danielle can get together and if we need

1067
01:27:58,320 --> 01:28:05,679
to call a special meeting before that we
can do that and we'll set the date.

1068
01:28:03,520 --> 01:28:09,360
» I I agree. I think we should consider
setting a special meeting sooner if that

1069
01:28:07,840 --> 01:28:12,639
opportunity comes up and it can be
completed quicker. We should always look

1070
01:28:10,880 --> 01:28:17,040
at movement options.
>> Sure. And on that first meeting, we can

1071
01:28:15,040 --> 01:28:21,440
always set the your honor, you can set
up the agenda. Committee of the whole

1072
01:28:19,600 --> 01:28:25,199
and the council meeting starts five
minutes after the conclusion of

1073
01:28:23,440 --> 01:28:29,040
committee the whole so we're not bound
by 7 p.m.

1074
01:28:26,639 --> 01:28:33,840
» Correct.
>> Andrew and Dave and Patrick, you guys

1075
01:28:30,960 --> 01:28:39,360
have anything to add or questions?
>> I think that works

1076
01:28:35,520 --> 01:28:43,280
» right. That will be our plan then. That
is our only item for business motion to

1077
01:28:41,920 --> 01:28:48,800
adjurnn. So
>> second,

1078
01:28:45,679 --> 01:28:53,000
second by Ash. All in favor say I.
>> Motion carried. Thank you all.

1079
01:28:53,199 --> 01:28:56,080
» Thanks, guys.