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Great. Thank you all. Um,
welcome to the finance committee meeting

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on Monday, August 24th.
Uh,

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first of all, just wanted to uh note uh
thank you to Chris for jumping on board

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here and uh drinking from the fire hose.
It's been a very illuminating few weeks

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and I think one of it validates I know
with a lot of the team members that

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you've met with already who've been um
really enjoyed your conversations and I

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think what stands out to me most is
taking kind of a systems level approach

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to where we're at and you know not just
you know getting the blocking and

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tackling done which is one piece but we
have to you know have a systems

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integration a systems design um that's
beyond the people that are here and It's

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been, you know, probably six years
coming with this, but I really feel like

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we're on the right track um based on our
conversations to get things back into

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best-in-class uh in the city of
Ellsworth, which is a fundamental

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responsibility for us. So, um really
looking forward to more and I know you

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have more updates later on, so I won't
um step over your pieces. Uh I'd also

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like to know I had some discussions with
our police chief. We have a uh an event,

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a Labor Day event on Monday here at city
hall that's going to require potentially

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a significant amount of police overtime.
We've checked into this before on sort

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of reimbursements for groups like this.
Um because when private organizations

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require police time, we we typically
have a reimbursement policy for that.

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Um, but those which are more in the free
speech category, political category. Um,

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there's less of cl legal clarity on
being able to be reimbursed for that. I

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know we don't have this as much as some
other cities and towns. It's become a

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huge line item, but I'd like to get a
little more visibility into how much

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this is costing us. So, I've asked the
chief to get me a breakdown um and, you

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know, to at least make a request that
there's a reimbursement for the police

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resources that the city of Ellsworth is
is covering here. I think that's one of

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the service center issues that we come
into. I'm sure there'll be a ton of

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people here in Ellsworth that are not
from Ellsworth. Uh but the police

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resources that are being paid for this
are exclusively on the taxpayers of of

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Ellsworth. So it's um there's not I
don't think too much we can do about it,

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but at least we can be visible about
what the cost is and at least try to get

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some reimbursement.
>> So all the officers that are serving on

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that day or time and a half
>> time and a half, correct? It's a Yeah.

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Labor Day holiday. So, um, and they're
going to have to be more brought in for

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it. So,
>> I don't think that is correct.

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» What's that?
>> I think Labor Day

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» is double time.
>> Oh, double time. Yeah.

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» Let me let me check.
>> Typically, that's what

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they get. Holiday pay.
>> And I asked the chief to give me a a

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rundown of what the costs are going to
be here. So I'm assuming in that it'll

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be a breakdown of that.
>> Is that is that all holidays

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» if they work it? I believe.
>> Okay.

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» That's something to look into.
>> Yeah, for sure.

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» Make sure
>> for clarity. Uh I believe Labor Day is

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double pay plus the holiday pay. Some
people call it triple pay, but the

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holiday pay was going to exist
regardless.

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» The holiday pay bakes in whether you
work it or not.

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» Yeah. And I think that's
>> so it's a little confusing in my world

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or in other people's world as well that
the Labor Day pay is going to I believe

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is a paid holiday and then you have
double time because it's a holiday.

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» So the chief's getting me a financial
rundown of of what that'll be.

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» Um
>> and I'm also meeting with them this

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week. So
>> great.

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» I'll have my own question.
Uh and now we'll switch to uh a

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discussion with Mike Works on updating
costs for the Bridge Hill repair and

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updating the repair. And just like to
say, you know, thank you to the

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community for their patience here. We um
our teams have been working diligently

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on it since everybody was out there
until late in the evening when it first

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happened getting it repaired and
stabilized so our hospitals and

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businesses can continue to operate with
water in the next days. Thank you to all

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the work you guys did to to make that
happen. and then all the additional work

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you're doing now to get repaired in that
um that intersection back up to snuff.

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» Yep. So,
um

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Northeast Paving is up there right now.
Uh they're starting to grind the road.

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Um
and then it should be they should be

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paving by the end of today, maybe
tomorrow, and expect to be done paving

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Wednesday.
So, we would expect the road to be open

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either Wednesday afternoon or Thursday
morning for normal traffic.

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» And that that's u removing the hot top
down the gravel.

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» Yep.
>> Fixing the base and then going back with

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two two and it compaction lifts. Yep.
>> Yep. Uh compaction and then 2 and 1/2 in

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of base, 2 in of intermediate, inch and
a half of surface. So, six inches of

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total pavement going back.
which is from the DOT.

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» That's what the DOT sent out.
>> And can you talk a little bit more? At

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the last council meeting, we had a
discussion on um DOT and should we leave

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it as gravel for a little while till see
if there's any other breaks? And what

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was the response to that?
>> Response was the same. Um,

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like I said in the council meeting, if
this was a road that we could leave

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closed and shut down to settle for a
couple weeks, then that would be um a

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good strategy. But with this particular
road, especially opening it back up to

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traffic, you have several hazards that
you would incur during that. One of

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which is if we have a big rainstorm, all
that gravel is going to go away. The

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second of which is if big trucks are
trying to slow down on that hill, which

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is a pretty steep grade on gravel,
that's usually not a good thing either.

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I spoke to John Tero at the DOT. He
concurred. Um his response again was fix

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it as soon as possible. So that's what
we're doing.

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» Great. And then in terms of cost
comparison for the roads compared to

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what our previous like price for paving
and whatnot, um have you been able to do

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analysis of that?
>> No, but this it came the price they gave

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us came in a lot further under than we
thought it was going to. We thought it

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was going to be around 200 250 came in
at 125.

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» And then the eventual funding mechanism
for this what do you

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» Yep. So, what I would like to do is be
up to the council, but we um pulled a um

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bond, the water department pulled a bond
back in 2023, 2024 for the Oak Street

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water main to be replaced during the
DOT's rebuilding of Oak Street, which

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was supposed to happen this year and has
now been delayed at least two years.

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2028, I think, is when they have it on
the work plan to do engineering. and

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then uh you still have to go through the
engineering piece. So, it probably

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wouldn't even get started until 29 or
30. Um that bond is is an actual bond.

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It's not a ban. It's been taken out. The
bond bank wants us to draw it down.

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We've explained to them that we can't
draw it down yet because the project's

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not taking place. Um, so I would like to
um come to the council and ask for

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reallocation of that money to
um pay for this project and possibly

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other stuff that the water has coming up
um so that we can satisfy the bond bank,

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not just have that money sitting around
while we're waiting for DOT to finally

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get going on Oak Street.
>> Okay. Okay. So, we'll come back with the

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to the council the financing plan with
this. There's a bit of road capital

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funding that could potentially cover
this in reserve account.

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» Yeah. I mean, we have some reserve
money, too. We have

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Yes, we do have some other monies that
we could use for it. Um, and if that's

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the choice, that's the choice. I'm just
like there's I think that bond is like a

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million plus and it's just been the bond
bank has been communicating with us

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wondering when we're going to start
drawing it down and we told them um but

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um doesn't make sense to sit on it for 3
years if we have immediate projects that

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could we could use it for without
hitting the user initially hitting the

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users or the taxpayers.

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Um, Mike and I talked about getting
together. I mean, this is a whole set of

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stuff in terms of funds and needs and
whatever. And this is one of my but one

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of my many but kind of burning
priorities. So, we're going to get

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together I thought Wednesday.
>> Um, he's bringing his folks including

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the Woodard and Curran folks.
>> Yep. just like get a handle on what it

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is and I think we can come up with some
reasonable options there. So, great.

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» Any questions for Mike from council?
>> I'd like to go on record in saying this.

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If you've
already made arrangements with a bond

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bank for a particular project
and you're going to use it for a

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different project,
um, that's not lining up liabilities

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with assets.
And I'm here to tell you that that is

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one dangerous move. You're lying to
ourselves and lying to the city of

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Ellsworth. If we say
if we're going to borrow money with a

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different liability and move that money
because the liability is not here yet,

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we're lying to ourselves. That's a very
dangerous situation. Extremely

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dangerous. If we don't need the money
for that project, then

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that needs not to be drawn down. We need
to face our real problems upfront and

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not hide them and push that two years
down the road. When that project comes

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and says, "Oh, well, we use the money
for something else." That's not going to

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look very good. We need to identify the
need for the money. If you and pay for

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that or borrow it with that as the
liability lined up. So you have asset

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liability, repair surprise liability. We
can't be doing that maneuver of borrow

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money for this intent and spend it for
this intent.

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You we've already encumbered that money
or funding for the Oak Street project

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» for the water man. Yeah.
>> Yeah. And

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I wouldn't change it.
The we should be having the engineering

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done on our water line and what needs to
be replaced and do that. Get ready for

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that before they actually
do everything else.

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» You see what I mean?
>> Yeah. Question is, are they ever going

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to do it? When you
[clears throat and cough] when you when

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you when when we the state does road
projects, they want everything under the

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ground taken care of, whether it's uh
power, communication,

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uh water, sewer, drainage. That it's
like making sure your foundation of your

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house done first and done right
and prevents deals where now we got to

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tear up pavement. That's like painting
your house and inside and everything and

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deciding, well, I'm going to put in a
picture window,

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less than a year later.
It It's or like for people who deal with

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automobiles and stuff, it's like
painting your car, making it look real

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pretty, and then pulling the engine out,
and then being pissed off because you've

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scratched the paint.
There's other ways to fund that.

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We haven't encumbered. we we we we
decide we're going to give money to

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nonprofits, why don't we just use shift
those funds around and it's a less

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burden on the taxpayers because either
way you look at it, they're going to

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spend the money. These are all things
that I've been telling people about.

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Those things that are hidden under the
ground, I wish I had X-ray vision. I

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could go around and tell you exactly
what's going to happen.

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No sense kicking the can down the road,
you know. and it it doesn't make

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financial sense. You you've got these
liabilities,

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you got these repairs, and you got all
of this stuff. It needs to equal out.

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It's like balancing your checkbook,
balancing your budget for your

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household.
Any

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questions for my
>> um the band bond that we have for this

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Oak Street project is it and excuse my
ignorance on the subject but because it

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now is forecasted to happen far into the
future if it happens when it happens. Um

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can we can we return the ban bond? Can
we cancel that and

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and then figure out a different way to
fund this

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Bridge Hill project? I'm just curious
about this band bond. Is it going to sit

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there until Oak Street happens or
what do we do in a in a scenario like

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this where a project gets canceled or
kicked down the roads?

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» I don't know.
>> I'd like to know why we borrowed the

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money before we needed it.
Because the project was supposed to like

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I said happen
this year was supposed to be

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constructed. So they would have done the
engineering in previous years and they

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wanted to include the water man which
was before my tenure as

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public works director. Um, and so the
thought process was that we

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[clears throat]
take out a bond to be able to do it as

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part of the DOT project so it would cost
less money to do the water man while the

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road was being dug up. And nobody knew
that the DOT was going to

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delay the project
indefinitely. Basically, they're saying

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that they're looking at possibly
engineering it in 28, but that

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it's one of those things where the DOT
from year to year, just like this year,

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they cancelled $400 million worth of
projects and then they putund and

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something million back on the books, but
the other ones are just put off until

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whenever because their funding's right
up.

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» Sir, do you remember this? Was this the
CDS one? I remember we had like a bunch

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of infrastructure things change and
there was a designation

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um year and a half ago or so um that I
think might have been part of this one

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as well. So there was yeah the
expectation was main DOT was going to

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move in do the infrastructure change um
you know had a little bit more clarity

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about what this was going to be. I can't
remember.

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» We still have a storm a huge storm water
project that we also received millions

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of dollars for that is going forward
because it's independent of

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the DOT project to
fix the storm water lines from Oak

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Street to the river, the two major trunk
lines. So that when the DOT project was

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done, which they intent when they were
supposed to construct it was to put in

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new um a whole new under underground
storm drain system, but our storm drains

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weren't adequate to hook into their new
storm drains that we're going to put in.

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So,
um,

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we are engaged in right now, I think
we're pretty close to final design for,

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um, rehabbing
both main trunk lines that come from Oak

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00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:53,120
Street, one down through the parking lot
of city hall, and one down over to the

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00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:56,880
river over here to be ready
to

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connect to the new storm drains. things
that they put in when they finally

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decide to do Oak Street. So that project
is

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also underway.
>> So the essentially there was a

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a plan for DOT to spend and do this
project. It made sense to do it at the

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same time.
>> We saw bond authorization and this this

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bond hasn't been drawn down. This has
just been applied for and

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00:17:19,439 --> 00:17:25,600
» like I said, they're asking us
>> um so they're now getting to an

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expiration timeline. So, we'll come back
to the council on if there's um

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00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:37,039
interest in doing a reapplication or if
there's interest in just letting this uh

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hit an expiration time frame and we
reapply once that project has a little

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more clarity on when it's going to need
funding. But, we'll do a little more

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work on it. just financially I I just
need to come up to speed on it because

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um a lot of moving pieces but you know
unlike maybe some of the other

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00:17:52,799 --> 00:18:00,720
departments in the town these are very
big bets uh these are these are dollars

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00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:03,440
that make a huge difference so I just
need to understand what it is what was

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00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:10,480
the purpose I think there are some
legitimate questions raised here what

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were they for is that still valid and
even if by the way you get awarded a

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00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:19,679
million bucks based upon a scoping from
a year ago, two years ago. If you delay

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that project three or four years, are
those costs still valid? Maybe it's not

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00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:28,799
even funded adequately right now.
Anyway,

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I and I I think we have enough whatever
we have enough brain power around the

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table and we we'll make good decisions,
but I I need to know what it is first.

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00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:42,880
» Yeah. And I'm a little you know, there's
an aspect this is unexpected. Um we want

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to move
forward but um and figure out a good way

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00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:51,440
to finance it. But I also have you know
I know um the backdrop is a good

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example. I remember when I was
researching original bonds, um, that

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00:18:54,559 --> 00:18:57,840
thing I think was in three different
bonds

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and
>> it got reallocated every time,

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00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:07,360
» reallocated to other things every single
time over a six-year period of time and

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00:19:04,799 --> 00:19:10,799
you know, I think our latest bond cycle
included the backdrop, included the road

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00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:15,440
repairs, included other things and
sticking to when that initial order is

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00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:18,160
and then what the projects are. Um,
sure, in an ideal world, if there's

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00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:23,039
reallocation, tons of public
transparency, here's to your point,

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00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:25,919
Steve, here's how it lines up. But I
think to your point, Chris, on the

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00:19:24,559 --> 00:19:29,520
financial turnaround and getting our
ducks in a row, until that happens, we

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probably shouldn't just be reallocating
from one to the other and then how it

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00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:37,679
gets processed and paperworked over
until we have the system for all that in

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00:19:34,799 --> 00:19:41,360
place, too.
>> Can you remind me what the Bridgeill

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00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:46,240
project is expected to cost?
>> 125,000.

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00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,240
» Okay. Thank you.

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00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:56,559
So, one more point to that.
If the city can't afford

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00:19:54,320 --> 00:20:02,559
$125,000
problem and you have to finance that

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00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:09,520
problem,
that's one thing.

253
00:20:05,039 --> 00:20:14,720
but burying it in other loans that five
years from today hopefully it's paid off

254
00:20:12,559 --> 00:20:17,760
but or three years from today when
there's different people sitting at this

255
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:23,600
table
um we need good paperwork good paperwork

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00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:28,720
makes good friends and you've got to
have debt lined up with use and I can't

257
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:35,039
say that enough
um this is equivalent to financing

258
00:20:32,159 --> 00:20:39,120
today's lunch if we have to finance
today's lunch, that's fine. That's where

259
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:43,360
we're at. But we don't want to be there
10 years from now. And the more of a

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00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:47,559
mess we make today, the more of a mess
we're going to have 10 years from now.

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00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,080
Thank you, Mike.

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00:20:55,679 --> 00:21:02,240
Now we'll go to uh Scott Gillo, fire
chief for an update and cost discussion

263
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:04,960
on the firetruck repair.
>> Good morning. Could I stop you just for

264
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:08,640
a second?
>> Yes, sir.

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00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:15,280
» I'd like to compliment you for bringing
this to this committee and making this

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00:21:11,039 --> 00:21:20,000
transparent before you need the money.
What I read from here, you see you might

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00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:25,200
need the money and you're telling us now
because you're burning up some of your

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00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:31,600
budget which was unforeseen for that. I
think that is incredibly good. You're

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00:21:28,559 --> 00:21:35,520
coming and telling the story
before

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00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:40,320
the story needs to be addressed and
thank you very much.

271
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:45,200
» Welcome.
>> So, get to your point, uh, part of this,

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00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:48,480
uh, at the city manager's request, he
did want me to come forward with this.

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00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:54,240
Uh, he and I have had some discussions
about where we're at. Squad five, um,

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00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:59,360
let me back trace this a little bit. In
previous years, the city did not have a

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00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:06,400
city mechanic and we outsourced every
vehicle repair um to local vendors.

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00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:10,480
Um there's a huge cost that goes with
that and the city uh brought on a city

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00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:14,159
mechanic to help balance some of that
cost out. Now, there are some things

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00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:18,159
that the city mechanic just can't do. Um
when it comes to fire apparatus, he's

279
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:21,600
not a pump mechanic. He's a diesel
mechanic. He can handle everything

280
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:26,559
that's related to the chassis and the
diesel portions of the fire truck. But

281
00:22:23,679 --> 00:22:30,559
when it comes to the pumps and the
aerial ladder, that exceeds what his

282
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:36,080
capability is. So, we do have to use
thirdparty vendors. Um, we try to stay

283
00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:39,840
local when we can. However, I'll use
ladder one for example. That's a

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00:22:37,679 --> 00:22:45,200
specialty item that's got to go all the
way down to Lewon to get its repairs

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00:22:42,159 --> 00:22:48,799
done. U, so
coming up today to today's date, the

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00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:54,880
city mechanic now does all the vehicle
inspections for uh our apparatus here in

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00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:59,440
the city. Um, in doing so, Squad 5 went
to have its vehicle inspection done and

288
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:05,280
it failed predominantly due to
suspension work both front and rear. Um,

289
00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:10,320
the initial cost quotes that I got was
around $10,000. I had a quick discussion

290
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:13,760
with uh the city manager. It is an
emergency repair. We cannot not have

291
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:19,600
this truck on the road. It's already
been off the road now for three weeks.

292
00:23:16,159 --> 00:23:23,600
Um, so we have the parts. The parts are
coming in. The truck's supposed to go

293
00:23:20,799 --> 00:23:28,799
into the city mechanic on August 31st to
get its work done and get it taken care

294
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:32,799
of. Um the additional cost obviously is
we have tires that we have to buy and

295
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:36,880
all that stuff to bring it up to speed
and then I'll have to go get its

296
00:23:34,159 --> 00:23:42,080
alignment done over at uh Cwell service.
So um so good portion of that as you saw

297
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:47,440
in the breakdown for what we spent
already is about $10,000 that has

298
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:51,600
already been spent into our budget.
Ladder one's going to have to go out for

299
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:55,760
repairs. Um, we have annual
certification testing for that ladder.

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00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:59,280
Uh, it's got to go down and have work
done on the hydraulic system because

301
00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:03,679
there's a uh there's a recirculation
problem and it's contaminating and

302
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:08,000
leaking. Uh, at the same time, we have
an electrical issue with the uh power

303
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:12,320
supply that runs the entire length of
that 75 ft ladder to the tip. So, it's

304
00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:16,720
going to go down to Lewon and it's going
to have that work done so it can pass

305
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:19,600
its annual certification test. Uh if we
didn't do that, the the city of

306
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:24,159
Ellsworth would not have a ladder truck
immediately available.

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00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:29,679
That's going to cost around $7,000 to
do. We just got the quote here on Friday

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00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:34,720
uh on Friday, um which is part of the uh
if you read through your packet, you'll

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00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:39,840
see it's included in that packet. Um
again, I think the biggest picture that

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00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:44,080
we're trying to paint is this is not a
lack of maintenance. Um you guys are

311
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:47,840
here in the morning for finance
committee. You guys are here uh other

312
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:52,080
days during the week and you hear it.
These guys are out here every single day

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00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:55,279
doing their pre-trip inspections on the
truck and making sure they're ready for

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00:24:53,600 --> 00:25:00,559
service every single day. They're
finding these problems every single day.

315
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:04,559
We have an aging fleet. And that's what
that's basically what this is telling us

316
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:09,679
is we have an aging fleet. We're working
on it. It's identified in the CIP. We've

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00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:14,960
worked very very hard to identify a
long-term plan to set up a replacement

318
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:20,799
schedule for all our apparatus. Uh but I
think the story today is is we allocated

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00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:27,279
$65,000 to the annual budget for this
year. We felt that that was right in

320
00:25:23,120 --> 00:25:33,279
line. We did not anticipate spending
close to $20,000 right in the first

321
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:36,480
quarter of the year. Um so really uh we
want to come before you. We're not

322
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:39,760
asking for any additional money. Uh
we're going to keep our eye on this. We

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00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:43,919
have some other stuff that we have to do
o over the next couple of months that

324
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:48,960
we're have to do every single year. Pump
testing, uh, service service things that

325
00:25:47,360 --> 00:25:54,320
we do with the pumps and things like
that. Um, but we're going to keep an eye

326
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:57,919
on it very closely. Uh, and I'll stay in
contact with the finance director as we

327
00:25:56,080 --> 00:26:04,200
get through to December and we can start
to project out where we're going to be.

328
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:04,200
My hopes are is that

329
00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:11,679
with the sale with engine two going into
reserve in the spring, uh we may see

330
00:26:09,679 --> 00:26:16,080
some of that go some of those costs go
away. Um

331
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:20,799
it's really hard to predict when a
truck's going to fail. Uh and that's the

332
00:26:17,919 --> 00:26:25,120
hard part. Um, but I think the fact that
these guys are doing carrot maintenance

333
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:29,600
every single day, um, they're working
aggressively with the city mechanic to

334
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:34,400
get work done via the city mechanic to
keep the labor cost down on our overall

335
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:37,039
budget. Um,
that's really the state of affair for

336
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:43,760
the fire department right now when it
comes to the vehicle budget.

337
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:50,080
» I I feel your pain. I've I used to be a
heavy equipment mechanic, so I've worked

338
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:56,320
on stuff bigger than this. And the and
trucks, it it's they're so easy. They

339
00:26:53,200 --> 00:27:03,520
they get picked apart really really bad,
you know, and they need to be safe.

340
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:09,039
Okay. Um so, but you we use them.
They're going to wear out. They need to

341
00:27:05,279 --> 00:27:15,120
be taken care of. And uh kudos. I like
this. you brought all this information

342
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:21,600
to us. So, you're you're you're giving
us fair warning that if some more issues

343
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:26,559
come up, it's going to we're going to
have to reallocate some money for you.

344
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:33,440
So,
and and it's also sending me a signal

345
00:27:30,159 --> 00:27:37,720
that um
we only have one city mechanic.

346
00:27:38,559 --> 00:27:47,440
We need to have two,
>> possibly three because agree with you

347
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:49,919
» because in my mind
>> I [snorts and clears throat] used to

348
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:55,120
have to juggle on which stuff needed to
get done and what superintendent

349
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:59,840
actually needed because I was only one
and when can I pull more resources from

350
00:27:57,279 --> 00:28:06,720
the company to to accomplish what I have
to do. Obviously, there was some job

351
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:12,880
sites that kind of got pushed back a
little bit, but still you, you know, if

352
00:28:10,399 --> 00:28:16,880
you're doing a rare, you know, doing a
water line crossing or sewer line

353
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:21,520
crossing on under a railroad or a major
artery, h this little job's going to

354
00:28:19,279 --> 00:28:26,799
have to take take a break. And I'd
communicate that with my my shop foreman

355
00:28:24,559 --> 00:28:31,840
equipment superintendent.
So, with that, we only have one

356
00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:37,200
mechanic. So hopefully they understand
that you're more of a priority.

357
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:40,880
» Public works has been working well with
us. I think Mike would agree. We have

358
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,559
one city mechanic. He's task saturated
in a short department.

359
00:28:42,159 --> 00:28:47,840
» Mhm.
>> They're short manpower. So um he has to

360
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:51,520
prioritize uh apparatus and what needs
to come in first. And sometimes we get

361
00:28:49,679 --> 00:28:55,679
ahead of the line and sometimes we have
to wait depending on what vehicle it is.

362
00:28:53,279 --> 00:29:00,080
However, um I think I would agree with
your sentiments. We we have one mechanic

363
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:05,440
trying to take care of a city worth of
heavy vehicles.

364
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:09,525
» Yes. All the equipment. Uh they he they
should be also working on the city owned

365
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:13,200
police cruises which are liability.
[clears throat]

366
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:20,720
You know it
it you know you can't it doesn't pay to

367
00:29:16,559 --> 00:29:26,880
lease fire trucks because
we're not the same as every other

368
00:29:23,919 --> 00:29:32,880
municipality. We're unique. We're
different. We have We are the largest

369
00:29:29,679 --> 00:29:36,960
city in area in the state of Maine.
There's a lot of areas you got to go. A

370
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:40,720
lot of the equipment you have are
different from the surrounding towns,

371
00:29:39,039 --> 00:29:46,640
municipalities,
and the counties. Okay. So,

372
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:53,440
yeah. Um,
thank you for bringing this.

373
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:57,200
And I I don't like surprises. [laughter]
Unfortunately, you deal with a lot of

374
00:29:55,360 --> 00:30:00,880
surprises, you know what I mean? And I
don't like you, you know, I feel bad

375
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:04,640
that you get surprised. I
>> I don't think any there's any one of us

376
00:30:02,559 --> 00:30:07,039
like having to be reactive.
>> So,

377
00:30:05,279 --> 00:30:12,080
» preventive maintenance is a lot better
than demand maintenance. That's why you

378
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:16,600
run into a lot of money when you have
breakdowns that are not anticipated.

379
00:30:16,799 --> 00:30:27,200
If I could weigh in a little bit more on
that, um I would like to say this that

380
00:30:23,919 --> 00:30:33,600
certainly one mechanic for the amount of
power units that the city owns um seem a

381
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:40,720
bit light
given that there's one mechanic.

382
00:30:36,399 --> 00:30:46,000
I think there needs to be a balance of
where am I in the queue for our mechanic

383
00:30:43,279 --> 00:30:51,919
to outsource this and get this thing
fixed now because before you know it

384
00:30:48,880 --> 00:31:01,200
you'll have a garage full of stuff with
a cue uh of repairs and time is ticking

385
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:08,080
and I think there is uh a balance there.
Hey, I've got this problem. And just to

386
00:31:03,919 --> 00:31:13,200
interject, trucks have
a certain way of looking into your

387
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:18,960
checkbook
when

388
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:25,200
when it's the lowest it could be and
presenting you with a surprise. I have

389
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:31,279
lived that life my entire life. And when
you're in the roughest shape is when the

390
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:37,600
biggest problems show up. And there has
to be a balance there. We can't just

391
00:31:33,039 --> 00:31:43,039
queue up on one guy. Um we can't um
sometimes the $170,

392
00:31:41,679 --> 00:31:49,679
I don't know what you're paying for
labor. Let's say it's $175 an hour. That

393
00:31:47,279 --> 00:31:56,720
guy works on that every day and he can
do it in three hours. and the guy that

394
00:31:52,640 --> 00:32:01,919
is a a broad guy um that touches
everything, it may take him eight hours

395
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:08,240
because there's a learning curve there.
And I think that that has to be weighed

396
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:15,360
um and it gets back to
um the cost of public works, fire

397
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:22,159
department, and police.
Charlie and I disagree, but I think that

398
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:26,720
those are very, very important. And I
think those are hard to judge and those

399
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:33,840
departments are all catchall
departments, especially public works.

400
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:40,799
And it's hard to budget for a group of
aging trucks. It's also hard to budget

401
00:32:37,679 --> 00:32:47,519
for downtime on new trucks. You can't
win. Um, and cuz brand new trucks

402
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:50,159
have their own sets of problems in the
last 10 years with all the

403
00:32:48,799 --> 00:32:58,559
environmental.
>> So, it's it's very difficult. Um, and I

404
00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:02,640
I I think that what I'm hearing is
great, but I also think that we really

405
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:08,080
need to figure
um there is a cost in creating a long

406
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:13,679
waiting line. And I think there has to
be a balance there. Even if your budget

407
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:16,960
is messed up by November, I think there
has to be a budget of preparedness. And

408
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:23,440
I don't have to tell you about
preparedness, but I if we wait for our

409
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:30,039
mechanic, um you may be waiting a long
time and your bill next year will be

410
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:30,039
even more unpredictable.

411
00:33:30,399 --> 00:33:35,919
» Let me just say a couple quick. When uh
councelor was talking about peering into

412
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:41,440
your checkbook, I thought you were going
to talk about my kids uh not not trucks.

413
00:33:38,799 --> 00:33:46,480
my little one. I I think she's looking
in my wallet right now. [laughter]

414
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:50,159
Um, [snorts]
you know, I've only been here a couple

415
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:57,279
weeks, but I would be the only only
thing I would uh maybe uh I'm not sure I

416
00:33:53,519 --> 00:34:03,200
totally agree is that in my brief tenure
here, I'm not sure I've met one person

417
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:09,839
who doesn't agree that these departments
are the the core of the city. Um, and to

418
00:34:06,799 --> 00:34:12,960
that point, uh, and I've I've spent
reasonable amount of time, and I'm going

419
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:19,119
to spend more time in the next even just
couple weeks, we're going to spend some

420
00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:23,040
focus time together. Um, I've been uh
not only impressed, impressed is too

421
00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:28,159
light a word, but I I guess maybe almost
moved uh their commitment and their

422
00:34:25,839 --> 00:34:33,119
creativeness and resourcefulness
to keep things moving forward because

423
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:37,040
they are the point of the spear uh in
terms of you know safety and the public

424
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:42,399
trust and our infrastructure and
whatever. um given their resource

425
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:46,240
constraints. And from that standpoint, I
I want to say, you know, I I haven't

426
00:34:43,839 --> 00:34:50,800
been here that long, but a lot of what
they're talking about is on me, frankly,

427
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:54,000
is the way I look at it. Um cuz
underlying all this stuff, they're

428
00:34:52,480 --> 00:35:00,880
talking about having to stand on their
head to make it work. Whether it's

429
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:06,960
servicing, keeping the vehicles on the
road with insufficient

430
00:35:03,839 --> 00:35:11,760
uh mechanics and resources and whatever.
How do I get these roads open? How do

431
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:16,880
you keep the water moving and whatever?
I feel like the clock is ticking and

432
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:20,800
it's on me because they they've how many
different ways can they say the

433
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:25,440
infrastructure needs work. It's old.
It's aging. And I think you guys have

434
00:35:23,359 --> 00:35:30,960
also raised a great point that you know
we just can't constantly play

435
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:35,119
whack-a-ole financially. So once I can
figure out where are we and what do we

436
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:39,920
got then how do we actually together how
do we plan ahead enough that we can come

437
00:35:38,079 --> 00:35:43,200
around this table and say hey how do we
actually get a handle and project out

438
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:47,920
ahead to get ahead of this
infrastructure problem because otherwise

439
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:52,720
these guys are always going to be you
know uh scrambling around we're going to

440
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:57,599
be price takers in the market taxpayers
are going to overpay at the end of the

441
00:35:53,839 --> 00:36:00,560
day so I I feel a lot of uh I don't know
I'm impressed but I feel a lot of

442
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:05,119
empathy and and at the end of the day, I
just want you to know that I hear you

443
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:08,960
and I feel like some of this is on me. I
have to work with you financially to

444
00:36:06,720 --> 00:36:13,599
make it possible for you to do your job
because uh I think they're doing amazing

445
00:36:11,359 --> 00:36:18,079
uh with what they've got. So,
>> yeah, I know we have to get to your

446
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:22,480
piece too, but I I would not agree with
that characterization that we disagree

447
00:36:19,599 --> 00:36:27,359
on the importance of police and fire. I
think um

448
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:31,655
you council Aller and that's you've made
that accusation twice now once the

449
00:36:29,599 --> 00:36:35,680
previous city council meeting
[clears throat] um I think you warned me

450
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:39,839
not to talk about the cost of these
things and I I want to make a huge

451
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:46,400
distinction um I don't think the city of
Ellsworth should not continue to invest

452
00:36:42,720 --> 00:36:52,800
in its police fire and infrastructure
1% I feel like as chief mentioned and

453
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:55,040
public works as well is in that category
um are going to need a lot more

454
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:58,800
investment with the amount of growth
that we have in this city moving

455
00:36:57,119 --> 00:37:04,240
forward. What is important though is
that we actually talk about it um and we

456
00:37:01,359 --> 00:37:08,240
acknowledge the cost um and what it is.
And for when before when I arrived here,

457
00:37:06,079 --> 00:37:16,160
I was pretty shocked. You see it in the
2024 audit on a $600,000 cost overrun on

458
00:37:12,240 --> 00:37:21,280
the public safety department in FY24.
um and [clears throat] talking to our HR

459
00:37:19,599 --> 00:37:25,680
director that there was no budgeting for
overtime um taxes. We were paying it,

460
00:37:23,839 --> 00:37:30,160
but we weren't budgeting for it. So, a
lot of the last three years or three

461
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:35,119
budget cycles of my job has been trying
to true cost these pieces. Uh it was a

462
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:40,560
$600,000 increase in the police and fire
departments and dispatched this year. Um

463
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:44,400
you know, by leaps and bounds, our
largest increase. Um and that's without

464
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:49,200
adding additional police officers or
firefighters this year. And the previous

465
00:37:46,079 --> 00:37:52,160
year we added two firefighters and uh a
police officer and a dispatcher. The

466
00:37:50,880 --> 00:38:00,640
year prior to that we added two
firefighters, we added a police officer

467
00:37:55,520 --> 00:38:04,480
as well. Um we did and prior to that
there was a lot of disinvestment in

468
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:07,839
infrastructure, decades of probably
disinvestment because that was the one

469
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:11,520
thing that didn't get pulled. Um so
these things are extremely expensive.

470
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:17,040
has also made big investments in public
works um both in equipment wise, both in

471
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:21,040
roads, both in repairs. Um but I want to
make a very big distinction between

472
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:25,520
talking about the costs of those areas
and what's driving the lion share of the

473
00:38:24,079 --> 00:38:31,359
tax increases to the citizens of
Ellsworth. um and the unfairness of

474
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:36,800
state revenue sharing reimbursements
um in taking care of so much public

475
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:41,920
safety infrastructure need for a huge
service center that is for 80,000 people

476
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:48,240
and only has 9,000 taxpayers. Um it's a
very big issue, but I um am very big on

477
00:38:45,359 --> 00:38:54,000
the importance of our police, fire, and
public safety teams um and very much

478
00:38:51,520 --> 00:39:00,880
appreciate the work they do.
Chris Am I Am I up?

479
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:02,560
» Oh, yeah. [laughter]
Now,

480
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:07,280
» you don't have to You don't have to say
it like that.

481
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:13,040
» All right. Well, I appreciate it. again.
Um, you know, I'm new and, um,

482
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:17,520
so
again, uh, this week, some of these will

483
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:23,119
be a little more qualitative than I'd
like, but, um, and I'll talk about kind

484
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:28,560
of my timeline, but I'd like to be more
and more quantitative, frankly, as as I

485
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:33,359
go. Just a quick update, uh, from last
time. Um, I don't know if you uh had a

486
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:37,119
chance to watch or come up to speed in
terms of any of that, but I just talked

487
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:41,359
about some of my initial observations
and priorities uh from my first week,

488
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:47,680
which was, you know, I've got a I
inherited a laundry list of uh burning

489
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:51,760
platform to-dos for finance just to keep
the plane in the air. That I looked at

490
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:58,960
it again uh this morning when I came in
and uh it's 162 line items long of stuff

491
00:39:55,839 --> 00:40:02,720
that needs to be fixed. Um, it is what
it is. It It's fine. It's, you know, not

492
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:07,040
my first rodeo in terms of turnaround.
So, I'm not scared of that. But, um,

493
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:09,760
I'll talk about some of the implications
of that in a second, but there's there's

494
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:15,359
a bunch of stuff just keep from playing
in the air. Then I said, uh, for me to

495
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:20,160
be comfortable and and have just one
night of good sleep, I need to

496
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:25,200
understand what we have as a town from a
financial perspective. Um, and I'll talk

497
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:28,960
about that in a second. Um then I said
uh I we got to get ahead just like we're

498
00:40:27,359 --> 00:40:33,920
talking about here in terms of the
infrastructure and what are the what's

499
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:40,640
the financial picture to make this a
more workable sustainable situation. Um

500
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:45,599
we got to get ahead of what we need. So
we can't constantly be reactive. We'll

501
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:49,760
always have to call audles uh because
that's the nature of life. But uh we

502
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:53,359
need to plan forward I think because
otherwise financially it's very

503
00:40:51,359 --> 00:40:58,000
difficult to respond. So, understand
what we need. Then I said my next series

504
00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:01,920
of things I need to look at is what I
call plug in the bucket. Let's just

505
00:41:00,079 --> 00:41:06,240
assume for a second that we had enough
water coming in the bucket. We're

506
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:09,680
spilling a lot of water out of the
bottom, but where is it? And so I'll

507
00:41:08,240 --> 00:41:17,040
I'll talk about what I'm doing in terms
of that then unclogging the spigot. And

508
00:41:13,119 --> 00:41:21,680
by that I meant that um
if we're not

509
00:41:19,359 --> 00:41:24,960
capitalizing like Charlie mentioned for
instance state reimbursements is

510
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:28,880
something that you know maybe we're not
we're not we're not getting great

511
00:41:27,359 --> 00:41:34,800
service from the state in terms of
reimbursements whatever but unless we're

512
00:41:31,839 --> 00:41:39,839
able to capitalize on on that type of
stuff that's nonpropy tax revenue what I

513
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:44,880
think of as revenue diversification then
the only only lever we have left is

514
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:49,680
property taxes
and I just don't think that that's fair.

515
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:53,680
So, um unclogging the spigot in terms of
revenue diversification was the next

516
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:58,240
one. Then I want to come to you with a
uh some suggestions or some scenarios

517
00:41:56,240 --> 00:42:02,160
around what's the plan when you rub all
that stuff together.

518
00:42:00,079 --> 00:42:06,640
What can we actually afford? And and
more importantly, what can we say no to

519
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:09,680
um that's not in that plan? And then the
last one I just said was honoring the

520
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:15,680
trust. So, I'll talk about those in a
second. Um to get really tactical just

521
00:42:13,359 --> 00:42:22,880
for a second, my number one burning
thing apart from the 162 uh items is uh

522
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:27,680
the bank reconciliation in and that is
the that's ground zero in terms of you

523
00:42:25,839 --> 00:42:33,200
know my point around understanding what
we have is bank wreck. Um I was supposed

524
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:37,680
to get it last week. Um I won't go into
all the the gory detail on that but

525
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:44,880
right now I'm supposed to get it on
Wednesday. We have a webinar set up with

526
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:49,119
the consultant that we've been using on
that. So, we'll see on that. Um,

527
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:54,079
meanwhile, between now and then, I'm
also been working uh with our team to do

528
00:42:51,359 --> 00:42:58,560
some pre-work so that we're ready to not
only digest it, but then we're going to

529
00:42:56,319 --> 00:43:03,280
take it over. And I want to be able for
us to assume the bank reconciliation

530
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:08,560
going forward because keep in mind that
when we get it,

531
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:16,480
this consultant is reconciling
um to end of December end of June uh

532
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:22,240
2025,
meaning that it's still it's still a

533
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:25,920
year behind and and bank wreck I again
if you have questions I'm happy to

534
00:43:23,599 --> 00:43:30,400
answer them, but um you know I've done
all kinds of different typ types of

535
00:43:27,359 --> 00:43:33,680
reconciliation for mostly for big
companies and then since I moved to

536
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:38,560
Maine for a bunch of midsize and small
small businesses whatever um everything

537
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:43,440
from you know companies doing financials
and Excel to then a little bigger you

538
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:48,800
know Quickbooks to JD Edwards for Midcap
and then there's SAP and Oracle you know

539
00:43:45,359 --> 00:43:52,160
for the big companies um municipal bank
wreck and and forgive me you guys

540
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:56,240
probably know this but it's a it's a
different animal in terms of complexity

541
00:43:54,319 --> 00:44:01,920
because it's not just GAP accounting but
you got GAP ASBY you got different

542
00:43:58,720 --> 00:44:05,359
acrruel uh models you got government
non-government accounts we got fund

543
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:10,480
accounting of which on the government
side you got five we got two enterprise

544
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:14,880
accounts we got fiduciary uh accounts uh
so those are all considered financially

545
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:20,240
anyway those are obviously
entities um then you got we got

546
00:44:18,319 --> 00:44:23,440
different cash accounts even looking at
the bank to understand how many accounts

547
00:44:22,240 --> 00:44:28,720
do we have at the bank then you got
investment accounts etc it's a different

548
00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:33,200
kettle fish. The problem with that is
the further we get behind the harder it

549
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:39,760
is.
So, I am desperate not only to get it, I

550
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:44,480
mean, Wednesday is a big day uh for us,
but more importantly, how do we take it

551
00:44:42,240 --> 00:44:48,960
over and how do we catch up because
otherwise we're we're making it too hard

552
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:53,920
on oursel. Um so, that's the the bank
wreck. um the bank wreck ends up being

553
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:58,240
the critical path item to getting the
audit

554
00:44:55,520 --> 00:45:03,200
done and then the audit is the critical
path for me to understand what our uh at

555
00:45:01,359 --> 00:45:08,880
least what the auditors say let's say
our undesated uh balance is and that

556
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:13,359
that for me is I'm also again we'll be a
year behind on that so I've also been

557
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:18,319
working with the team to say listen from
that point here's the process we're

558
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:23,040
going to follow to take that let's just
assume that that's right for a second.

559
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:27,440
That's like hard ground we can stand on
and then catch up in terms of that. So

560
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:32,160
that hopefully by the next time I see
you, I want to be able to have a much

561
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:36,000
better idea of really our financial
condition. Um

562
00:45:34,319 --> 00:45:41,839
meanwhile, you know, we've had to keep
making the donuts, right? So we got the

563
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:46,560
fiscal year 26 closeout and the cleanup.
Um already the team is starting to have

564
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:50,240
preliminary discussions and thinking
forward in terms of the budget process

565
00:45:48,319 --> 00:45:54,319
for the next fiscal year because that
never sleeps. And then like you heard we

566
00:45:52,400 --> 00:46:00,079
got e emergency repair projects we have
to fund. We've got basic what I consider

567
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:04,880
almost non-negotiable
uh CIP uh projects where we've

568
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:12,240
whittleled it down to the stuff that's
just mission critical uh to fund and the

569
00:46:08,319 --> 00:46:18,760
team is paying bills. We pay about uh I
think you know this but we pay about 900

570
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:18,760
uh invoices a month. Um

571
00:46:19,119 --> 00:46:27,839
so with that um I have been also at the
same time behind the scenes uh I took

572
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:32,079
some of those concepts that I laid out
in the first first week uh that I was

573
00:46:29,839 --> 00:46:36,560
here and I've put together kind of a
project plan uh which I'd be happy to uh

574
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:42,560
you know we could sit down and walk
through it together if you if you wanted

575
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:46,800
but um the punchline of that plan is uh
I just called it managing the tax

576
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:53,200
burden. So that that's where I want to
get to. In order to get there, however,

577
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:57,119
I got these what I called stabilization
uh items around this what what we have

578
00:46:55,599 --> 00:47:02,640
it, you know, etc. There's a whole
process around that and I talked about

579
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:08,960
the bank wreck and assuming it. Um,
but a piece of that is um,

580
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:14,599
and I've had uh, discussions with the
internal team over the past uh, couple

581
00:47:11,119 --> 00:47:14,599
weeks on this

582
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:24,160
in order for me to make progress. Um, I
need to free up some of my resources. So

583
00:47:21,359 --> 00:47:30,000
I mentioned for instance that uh our
team uh you know I'm now now that I'm

584
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:36,400
here we've got four people in finance
two of whom have been fully occupied in

585
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:41,200
terms of just what I consider data entry
they've been just plugging away entering

586
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:45,839
invoices and by the way if you think
about that just for a second you know

587
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:50,560
that and that's I think um with very
good intentions

588
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:53,839
but number one they're at the back end
of production line. If you ever worked

589
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:57,680
in a manufacturing facility, they're at
the back end of the line. So, if we're

590
00:47:55,520 --> 00:48:01,760
trying to do quality control at the
back, by the time the widgets are

591
00:47:59,599 --> 00:48:04,960
falling off the back of the line, that's
very late in the process and all the

592
00:48:03,119 --> 00:48:10,240
work's gone in it. And by the time by
the time they see it, what do they know

593
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:13,359
about where it came from? Is it right?
Is it not right? Is it a duplicate?

594
00:48:11,839 --> 00:48:16,319
Should we ask questions? Do we reserve
it? What what do we do with it? So,

595
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:21,440
that's a very difficult way to do it.
But more importantly, we have, like I

596
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:25,440
just mentioned, we have amazingly
talented and committed people that are

597
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:30,160
running these what I think of as almost
sub businesses underneath the town,

598
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:34,800
but we're hamstringing them a little bit
because we're pulling the visibility and

599
00:48:32,240 --> 00:48:39,760
the data and the decision-m and I think
some of you fellas uh I think you're

600
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:45,760
business people as well.
We've taken away the the dashboard from

601
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:49,280
them. So, it's like out of good
intentions, I think we've made it more

602
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:52,880
difficult. And the fact I don't have my
my plane is filling up with smoke. I

603
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:57,440
don't have the firefighters right now.
So, I I need to reallocate. And I've

604
00:48:55,680 --> 00:49:01,440
made some uh suggestions and we're
working on a plan where I can move the

605
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:05,280
work around just a little bit and I can
free up the people that I need to help

606
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:09,839
me get ahead of this and fight this fire
because I I inherited 162 items and then

607
00:49:08,240 --> 00:49:13,119
we have to keep making the donuts and
and and we have to pull this thing out

608
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:18,960
of the ditch. So that's that's one
thing. Uh fixing the resourcing.

609
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:22,880
Um
the second thing and I I won't get too

610
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:27,520
much into this cuz I you know like so
many things I just know enough to hurt

611
00:49:24,319 --> 00:49:31,680
myself right now but um I've been
struggling a bit little bit with our

612
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:34,680
systems environment.
Um

613
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:46,800
we have uh
in finance the front end of the business

614
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:54,720
we use a system called Trio which is a
old uh old old system but but you know

615
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:58,319
it's it's it's known it works. It's not
very pretty but the things hang together

616
00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:03,280
and it works. That's what we use in the
front of the system. Then we have a

617
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:08,559
financial system that is called Cassell
and I think we're one of the newest

618
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:14,160
clients at least clients of this size
for that system

619
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:18,960
supposed to be that we take transactions
in over this TRIO system [snorts] then

620
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:22,319
it's supposed to link up to Cassell then
we're be supposed to be able to produce

621
00:50:20,720 --> 00:50:27,839
reporting out of the Cassell and by the
way that's what ends up being reconciled

622
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:33,119
to the bank out to the world the real
world and That's what is getting audited

623
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:39,200
on. That linkage is not very good right
now to say the least.

624
00:50:35,599 --> 00:50:42,240
And so for me to get any data out of it
so I can create information and I can

625
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:48,079
come back to you with some insight and
say hey listen

626
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:52,960
here's where where we stand on stuff.
We're having to to manually do that

627
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:57,599
outside the system. So we lean on it to
produce Excel reports and that that

628
00:50:54,720 --> 00:51:04,160
whole bit whatever
which is fraught and there's a lot of

629
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:07,760
human touch on that and whatever and I
always feel you know right now in my

630
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:12,720
brief time I you know I I have to figure
that out and meanwhile

631
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:19,680
what ends up being audited is it the
Excel? No. Is it TRIO? No.

632
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:25,440
It's this Cassell thing that we're not
really using all that well. So, I need

633
00:51:22,559 --> 00:51:30,400
to figure this systems thing out as well
because that that's just the reality of

634
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:35,119
what it is. Um, so I got resourcing. I
got systems to figure out. I'm trying to

635
00:51:33,119 --> 00:51:39,680
resort the work around. We're trying uh
the work. I'm trying to balance the

636
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:42,960
making the donuts and then, you know,
trying to give you guys a straight

637
00:51:41,119 --> 00:51:47,040
picture in terms of here's where we sit
and then we can put our heads together

638
00:51:45,119 --> 00:51:52,720
in terms of recommendations. That's the
stabilization piece. um this cost

639
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:58,720
optimization piece in terms of plug in
the bucket. I have um

640
00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:04,400
I decided that I need to get on my
office sooner around later and uh talk

641
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:08,720
to people and of course you guys are
high on my priority list. Uh so I'll

642
00:52:07,119 --> 00:52:15,040
look to to spend some time with you and
get on your calendar. But to start with,

643
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:23,359
I'm starting with
our folks, department heads. [snorts]

644
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:28,319
Um, and what I did is I
uh listed all the key department heads

645
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:33,680
for the city and all I did was I
prioritized I stack ranked them based

646
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:37,920
upon budget spend. I can't remember the
uh there's that that historical joke

647
00:52:36,079 --> 00:52:42,160
where I can't remember the bank robber
they were asking you know why why do you

648
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:48,160
actually rob banks and he said well
that's where the money is. Um so I

649
00:52:45,599 --> 00:52:52,559
thought I'd start with where the spend
actually is and go in order of that. And

650
00:52:50,559 --> 00:52:56,640
so I don't know what this is but there's
a dozen folks here on this list

651
00:52:54,559 --> 00:53:00,319
something like that. Um that represents
82%

652
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:03,839
of the spend for the city. So I'm going
to start there.

653
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:08,079
And then I got a bunch of other folks
and I have some external folks and of

654
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:13,440
course uh I have you you folks on that
but I thought before I sat down with you

655
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:17,119
I'd like to have something substantive
uh and and at least ground myself get in

656
00:53:15,359 --> 00:53:23,040
the pool a little bit and understand
that. So um and I've I've had some

657
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:30,640
initial discussions and it's been it's
been amazing. um you know we talk about

658
00:53:25,599 --> 00:53:34,000
uh the um uh you know the the strategic
value what they do but then you know

659
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:40,319
there's this cost element I would say
even on the cost side of the equation uh

660
00:53:37,119 --> 00:53:48,160
the time that I spent with these guys um
no one is more aware and worried and

661
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:53,200
cognizant of what it cost to do than
than them every single discussion that

662
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:58,000
we have these guys stand up and say
Yeah, but you know, let's talk about the

663
00:53:55,520 --> 00:54:02,319
cost element or whatever. So, I feel
like

664
00:54:00,559 --> 00:54:06,319
the the the spirit is exactly right.
They just need they just need help from

665
00:54:04,319 --> 00:54:12,160
me and and my people uh to be able to do
it. So, um but in in those initial

666
00:54:10,319 --> 00:54:17,359
discussions, I we've already highlighted
some opportunities on the cost side that

667
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:21,040
could make a huge
difference at the end of the day. So

668
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:24,640
with all these, if I'm talking to people
that represent 82% of the spend, I'd

669
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:29,280
like to be able to summarize that and
come back to you and say, "Hey, listen.

670
00:54:26,559 --> 00:54:32,960
Here's the inventory
of where the where the water's flowing

671
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:36,319
out of the bucket." And we can and we
can't do everything all at once. And

672
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:40,240
sometimes to fix them, as you guys know,
there's a little bit of upfront expense

673
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:43,760
to make that happen, too.
But unless we want to keep playing, you

674
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:48,880
know, whack-a-ole year after year after
year, um, here would be the plan and

675
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:54,000
then we can prioritize and and here's
what it would mean. And I'm, by the way,

676
00:54:50,480 --> 00:55:00,319
I'm characterizing those cost savings.
Uh, some of them have are run rate

677
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:05,119
savings, as you know. So, uh, recurring
budget expenses that we can take out.

678
00:55:03,119 --> 00:55:11,119
So, we'll we'll we could save that year
over year. Others are one-time

679
00:55:08,319 --> 00:55:16,160
cash benefit types of things, but that's
real money, too. And I think to council

680
00:55:13,599 --> 00:55:20,480
Howard's point, you know, if we can get
smart about those things, then maybe we

681
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:23,839
actually maybe we don't even need to
finance some of that stuff at all. We

682
00:55:22,319 --> 00:55:27,760
can actually squeeze the lemon and we
actually have that financing uh within

683
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:32,720
the town. So, that's one of the the
pieces that I'm I'm capturing um from

684
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:37,280
those things. So, that cost observation
piece already is underway. And I'm

685
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:41,520
again, I just wanted to
um I'll get to everybody, but I'm

686
00:55:39,359 --> 00:55:46,400
starting with uh like the bank robber
said, I'm starting with where the money

687
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:50,799
is first. Um then there's uh this
revenue unclogging this spigot thing. Um

688
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:56,240
so I'm talking about things like you
tiffs, uh state reimbursements for sure.

689
00:55:54,079 --> 00:56:04,319
I talked about this monetizing the
growth piece. um other types of uh um

690
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:11,200
things taking advantage of sort of the
tourist traffic etc etc and then I I

691
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:15,760
mentioned even uh grants which I have um
uh in my uh experience some mixed

692
00:56:13,119 --> 00:56:23,119
feelings about although
to the extent that we can identify

693
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:28,240
grants that have a property tax offset
benefit to them. So there these are

694
00:56:26,079 --> 00:56:34,240
needs and projects that have been
captured in the expense budget now and I

695
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:39,440
can find alternative sources for funding
for them then I'm much more in support

696
00:56:36,720 --> 00:56:44,799
of those naturally as opposed to grants
that are inventing their own incremental

697
00:56:42,079 --> 00:56:49,359
thing or work. Um and then I rub all
that together and then you know managing

698
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:52,480
the tax burden. So now it's you know
what can we actually afford from that

699
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:57,359
and what tough decisions are we going to
make? How are we going to prioritize it?

700
00:56:54,799 --> 00:57:00,480
I would like to report have a report out
at least in terms of my findings and I'd

701
00:56:59,119 --> 00:57:05,359
like to be a little bit more qualitative
if I can by the next finance committee

702
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:10,960
meeting.
Um it forces me um you know we'll see

703
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:14,799
because I'm struggling mightily with the
data

704
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:20,319
but I but on the other hand I'm not sure
that gets better if you give me another

705
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:27,119
3 months to you know float around and uh
you know stare at my navl basically. So,

706
00:57:23,119 --> 00:57:30,400
putting a hard uh uh report out on the
calendar of Monday, September 14th,

707
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:34,720
which is the next finance committee
meeting. I like to be able to if you

708
00:57:32,319 --> 00:57:38,960
think all this is like, you know, I'm a
fresh set of eyes and I've done a little

709
00:57:36,559 --> 00:57:43,680
bit of discovery,
talk to the folks, you know, who are on

710
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:48,079
the ground, talked to people externally,
you know, met with you guys, um, and

711
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:52,240
then rub that together and say, "Hey,
listen, you know, because I've done

712
00:57:49,359 --> 00:57:57,200
turnaround for a living, here's my, uh,
my take on it." Uh,

713
00:57:55,359 --> 00:58:03,200
I, you know, if you guys are comfortable
with that, that's that's what I'd like

714
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:07,440
to do. Um, I'd also like to open up the
door for listening dialogue with the

715
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:12,400
public.
Um

716
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:17,040
cuz I know that you know people uh it's
one thing what the numbers say but you

717
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:23,680
know for me uh I I won't go through my
whole thing from from uh the first first

718
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:27,520
meeting but um I I know firsthand
um

719
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:32,880
what it means to to struggle and to
worry about you know how you're going to

720
00:58:29,119 --> 00:58:39,359
make the next whatever pay pay bills.
Um, so I'd like to open that that up and

721
00:58:35,839 --> 00:58:44,880
I mean this in a sincere way uh that I I
would love to hear and hear from people

722
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:48,319
and and spend time with people in terms
of what their experience is, what are

723
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:55,520
they concerned about, what questions do
they have, what are their priorities.

724
00:58:51,359 --> 00:58:59,520
Um, I think we publish my email uh on
the website in a couple different

725
00:58:57,040 --> 00:59:05,680
places, but uh my email is c
neithsworthmain.gov.

726
00:59:01,839 --> 00:59:10,400
gov. So, you can send me an email. I
also would uh would like to have office

727
00:59:07,839 --> 00:59:17,280
hours. I don't know if maybe my
predecessors did that. I don't know. Uh

728
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:22,559
but um I'm going to try uh blocking uh
Thursday mornings

729
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:27,200
from 8 to 10 in my office. Uh I'll make
you a cup of coffee. We can sit down.

730
00:59:24,799 --> 00:59:32,000
We'll close the door and um and and and
and we can uh we can chat. I would

731
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:37,440
welcome that. And then also uh you know
if you you fellas have ideas about other

732
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:40,559
ways that would make sense um I was even
thinking maybe I could host some kind of

733
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:45,760
quarterly thing where people could come
together we could have kind of a public

734
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:49,760
dialogue and uh and they could ask
questions and I I give him my best shake

735
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:54,000
in terms of here's my understanding of
where we are uh for that I think that'd

736
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:58,240
be good.
Um, and if there are other ideas about

737
00:59:56,160 --> 01:00:03,040
that, how to have kind of a real
conversation and and whatever. I I don't

738
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:07,680
have
a lot of answers. I don't have all the

739
01:00:04,559 --> 01:00:12,240
answers for sure right now, but I can I
can certainly listen and uh and

740
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:17,040
prioritize that. Uh, that's that's a big
priority for me.

741
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:21,119
Um,
>> to me, it sounds like you're working

742
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:26,079
hard to get a handle on it. It takes a
while when you get into it.

743
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:32,799
when you take over somebody else's
position, you know, you come in and you

744
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:36,559
you got to figure out, oh, okay, this is
this and

745
01:00:35,291 --> 01:00:43,680
[clears throat] one of the concerns
you've identified to me is and I was

746
01:00:39,599 --> 01:00:48,400
where I TRIO has been around for a lot
of municipalities

747
01:00:45,359 --> 01:00:52,960
for a long long time and a lot of
clerks,

748
01:00:50,079 --> 01:01:00,160
a lot of city managers
you know, treasures, they they don't

749
01:00:56,640 --> 01:01:04,640
it's same same with anybody. Uh well, we
never used to do it this way. They don't

750
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:07,200
they when they make that comment, they
they they don't want to change.

751
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:11,920
» Mhm.
>> They're worried about the dark side. And

752
01:01:09,599 --> 01:01:16,557
it's not the dark side. There's always a
better way to do something.

753
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:19,119
Unfortunately,
[clears throat]

754
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:26,119
with my experience working in state
government, they've changed a lot of

755
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:26,119
programs and without

756
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:36,160
with doing tests to see if this program
will now transfer to this program and

757
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:40,559
work with this and
next thing you know it's like

758
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:45,200
it still won't
tell what it just implemented. You know

759
01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:49,839
what I mean? And then
you still got the problem. You see I

760
01:01:47,359 --> 01:01:55,920
mean Main Revenue Services did that and
and they spent

761
01:01:51,839 --> 01:02:01,760
» uh two years trying to get their program
to work with the new program and it

762
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:08,880
didn't [clears throat]
>> and the

763
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:14,000
the estate assessor said let's just go
with it

764
01:02:11,839 --> 01:02:18,240
now. I think by now they've corrected
that problem cuz that was back in the

765
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:22,880
'9s. So you figure, well, maybe it's
straightened out.

766
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:26,400
But [clears throat]
>> yeah, we'll we'll see. I think the

767
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:31,280
systems integration piece is a is a
pretty big one. I know um

768
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:35,599
» you know, bad data in, bad data out, and
I think I've

769
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:40,880
» um you know, following along for that,
too. We made a lot of progress. An

770
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:44,319
initial narrative of this was coming in.
And you know you Stephen you were here

771
01:02:42,559 --> 01:02:48,640
you weren't here Pat when there like
they did a software transfer in the

772
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:53,200
middle of a budget season between Munis
and Cassell they didn't actually fully

773
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:56,480
implement that change uh there was
massive amount of turnover in the

774
01:02:54,640 --> 01:03:00,400
organization in the finance department
>> and in the city manager's office at the

775
01:02:58,559 --> 01:03:03,920
time I kind of took over that project
management for six weeks brought the

776
01:03:02,319 --> 01:03:07,599
entirety of pretty much the management
core into the auditorium for six

777
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:11,760
straight weeks on arrival and did the
systems in integration to the extent

778
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:14,799
possible got a budget book together. We
had no prior year actuals for anything

779
01:03:13,599 --> 01:03:19,520
at that point. They were all just
budgeted because there really wasn't any

780
01:03:16,799 --> 01:03:22,640
actuals. Um and I think one of my
mistakes too was okay well the budget

781
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:25,680
systems are better. There's the report
outs. We started returning to the

782
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:30,640
monthly reports from the Cassell
integration. That was great in some

783
01:03:27,599 --> 01:03:34,160
ways. Um but it wasn't until uh we had
another finance director leave and then

784
01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:38,960
I started redoing the budget this year
where I was looking line by line by line

785
01:03:35,839 --> 01:03:44,079
by line and noticing on how Cassell kind
of includes the revenues in this um in

786
01:03:42,079 --> 01:03:48,240
the expenses area and was sort of hiding
some of the expense overruns that I

787
01:03:46,079 --> 01:03:52,160
started seeing in the earlier year that
wasn't readily apparent on those you

788
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:56,079
know monthly report outs. So you have
you kind of trust a monthly report out,

789
01:03:54,240 --> 01:04:00,160
you see a different story. You know,
we've this budget cycle too. We didn't

790
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:03,839
we didn't backfill two employees, so
we're net negative on the general

791
01:04:01,359 --> 01:04:08,559
government side. Um two full-time
employees. Uh and we said no to

792
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:14,319
absolutely everything this budget
season. We're negative 10% on the

793
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:17,599
request from the nonprofits. And we're
going to I know Chris, you're kind of

794
01:04:16,079 --> 01:04:21,839
analyzing some of our systems for
further cost savings on what we should

795
01:04:19,359 --> 01:04:26,400
stop moving forward with. Um, this is
the northstar that bank recon, the

796
01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:30,559
budget, the cassell, the blocking and
tackling piece. And we are going to be

797
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:36,240
in an orientation of infrastructure,
public safety, and keeping the lights

798
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:42,400
on. Um, from my perspective, in the same
vein as last budget cycle until that

799
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:47,119
piece um is solved. And you know, I just
say one more thing. I think this for me,

800
01:04:45,359 --> 01:04:50,960
you know, this is I know we've made some
progress, not nearly as much as I would

801
01:04:49,039 --> 01:04:56,720
have hoped. put this in the vein of like
last year [music] taxes went tax bills

802
01:04:53,599 --> 01:05:00,079
went out again not on time for you know
the seventh year in a row here and it

803
01:04:58,400 --> 01:05:03,520
had been two cycles where that had
happened under my watch and we made a

804
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:08,079
huge effort thank you to the deputy city
manager the assessor and others who were

805
01:05:06,079 --> 01:05:11,039
part of that turnaround and I'm our
consultant who we brought on in that and

806
01:05:09,359 --> 01:05:15,039
we sent tax bills out for the first time
and some people's like they don't have a

807
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:18,400
memory of it not going out so for me we
gota um it can't just be more promises

808
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:21,839
and hearing the same thing at these
finance committee we actually have to

809
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:26,960
solve the problem and put timelines on
when we're going to solve it by.

810
01:05:24,319 --> 01:05:32,200
» Yeah. The two two quick things I I would
just offer there. Um, you know, my

811
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:39,039
uh
again, uh, so a lot of my professional

812
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:43,119
life, you know, I've done, um, kind of
real distressed turnaround stuff and,

813
01:05:41,599 --> 01:05:47,200
um,
I just find it's not

814
01:05:45,680 --> 01:05:51,280
useful or I'm not trying to make
excuses.

815
01:05:49,599 --> 01:05:57,119
Um, and also I'm not trying to like
blame either because uh

816
01:05:54,799 --> 01:06:02,160
I think blame is often very simplistic
and uh and it's not productive. I the

817
01:05:59,599 --> 01:06:06,240
way I look at Ellsworth
is uh we're like a small boat almost

818
01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:11,039
like an inflatable in the middle of the
big ocean and Ellsworth is special and

819
01:06:09,119 --> 01:06:17,760
you know human terms but it's very it's
not special from a economic perspective

820
01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:23,280
and from a fin. So we're not immune to a
lot of the forces that are happening in

821
01:06:19,839 --> 01:06:27,039
the state that then are manifesting here
in terms of some of the challenges we're

822
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:30,400
having. Not immune in terms of some of
the federal stuff and you know

823
01:06:28,559 --> 01:06:34,640
inflationary pressure and and different
things or whatever. Um so we're in this

824
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:40,000
little inflatable thing and we're
together and increasingly this to at

825
01:06:38,079 --> 01:06:45,200
least to date the state hasn't really
been coming to our aid all that much or

826
01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:49,520
whatever. So, it's up to us. And so, for
me to, you know, cast blame or or throw

827
01:06:47,839 --> 01:06:53,680
spears, let's say, at the people in the
boat trying to bail the boat,

828
01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:58,000
I feel like, you know, if that's the
best I got,

829
01:06:54,960 --> 01:07:00,720
» then, you know, come on. Um,
>> it

830
01:06:58,799 --> 01:07:06,640
» but but it but to be able to at least
let people know as a start, here's what

831
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:11,920
we're up against. because I feel like
when when people are grown-ups, you can

832
01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:16,160
take good news, you can take bad news,
but they need to know what the score is

833
01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:20,079
so we we even know what problems that we
got to solve. So, I'm just letting you

834
01:07:17,599 --> 01:07:23,680
know that's what I think we're up
against and it's what I'm up against.

835
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:27,599
But with that said, I still want to be
able to report out something real uh

836
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:33,200
September 14th, just so you know. So,
and I think I know we're

837
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:37,599
just looking forward to I think your
boat analogy is I I feel like we're in

838
01:07:35,200 --> 01:07:42,000
with those like those little hand pumps
and there's just more coming in.

839
01:07:40,079 --> 01:07:45,520
» Um, I'm worried
>> that's going to happen. You know, it's

840
01:07:44,079 --> 01:07:51,200
going to be there's going to be times
that, you know, Mike Mike will will be

841
01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:56,000
pulling his hair out because the water
man up on Oak Street breaking and then

842
01:07:53,520 --> 01:08:02,880
this one down Water Street and then up
to Elder Falls and all of a sudden the

843
01:07:59,520 --> 01:08:09,680
sewage treatment plant pops a cookie.
You know, these things are all

844
01:08:04,319 --> 01:08:13,280
unforeseen. I I I do
I'm not going to cast any blame. I think

845
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:18,640
that
We need to do something about an aging

846
01:08:15,599 --> 01:08:24,799
program like TRIO
because I don't think that's going to be

847
01:08:22,159 --> 01:08:30,560
longer for everybody else. And we were
proactive and f trying to find a program

848
01:08:27,839 --> 01:08:36,640
that's going to work. It It's like, you
know, running a running certain programs

849
01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:42,799
on your computer. It's like, oh,
Windows 10 is no longer supported.

850
01:08:39,839 --> 01:08:47,440
» Yeah. and and this doesn't talk to this.
So there you are, you know, you've

851
01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:52,799
you've had Windows 9 and you've up
Windows 8 and you've upgraded 10 and now

852
01:08:49,920 --> 01:08:57,600
oh we're going to 13.
You see I mean you're going to have that

853
01:08:55,920 --> 01:09:02,719
you have that in the trucks and
equipment too because they're all coming

854
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:08,319
out as computerized. You see I mean so
if man makes it it's going to be wonky.

855
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:11,520
» Mhm. one minute you think you're doing a
great job and next thing you know it's

856
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:20,239
like
but to to your point you they're being

857
01:09:16,719 --> 01:09:24,960
proactive to try to point out things and
and and that's what we need to do. I

858
01:09:22,960 --> 01:09:29,199
still be I'm still going to be on the
deal that we need to put the brakes on a

859
01:09:27,199 --> 01:09:35,199
lot of stuff a lot of new stuff. It's
just like whoa we need to get things

860
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:40,400
taken care of. We need to take care of
the things that

861
01:09:37,839 --> 01:09:43,920
councils 20 years ago should have took
care of.

862
01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:49,440
» Okay. I've been touting that for years
and years and years and finally it's

863
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:53,759
like, you know, everybody encouraged me,
you you need to run for city council.

864
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:59,199
Well, I'm really didn't want to run. I'm
more interested in walking.

865
01:09:56,960 --> 01:10:04,080
So, that's how I did. You know what I
mean? When we're gonna get a handle on

866
01:10:01,679 --> 01:10:07,840
this stuff,
light right at the end of the tunnel is

867
01:10:05,679 --> 01:10:12,800
there.
Not like looking through the catch b

868
01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:16,400
looking through the cross culvert and
not seeing any daylight. There is some

869
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:22,000
daylight there and it's going to get
there, but we need to [snorts]

870
01:10:19,040 --> 01:10:27,679
put the binders on.
I picked across to a couple of like the

871
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:32,480
last warrant and it's like, hey, this
should have been put here, not here.

872
01:10:29,840 --> 01:10:37,840
Well, I
it's too late now. It's already been

873
01:10:35,120 --> 01:10:43,040
put, but
it might not be too late. You assuming

874
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:48,960
cell phone stipens should be picked up
by all the departments that those

875
01:10:46,880 --> 01:10:52,719
employees that are required to have a
phone.

876
01:10:50,480 --> 01:10:56,239
You see what I mean?
And you got to identify

877
01:10:55,584 --> 01:11:03,679
[clears throat]
does it there such thing as want and

878
01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:10,000
need. You know what I mean? Do I know we
want we want we want. What do we really

879
01:11:07,280 --> 01:11:16,159
need?
If I could weigh in just a moment.

880
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:21,040
I got here five years ago
and there was five people in the defi in

881
01:11:18,480 --> 01:11:28,080
the finance department
and slowly that got weaned down

882
01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:32,560
» and over the five years that I have been
here for almost 5 years

883
01:11:30,954 --> 01:11:38,320
[clears throat] I think you walked into
the best situation that it's been in

884
01:11:34,719 --> 01:11:44,159
five years not because of me by any
means but

885
01:11:41,440 --> 01:11:49,920
I think we had a garden in Ellsworth
that was all weeds and no vegetables.

886
01:11:47,440 --> 01:11:54,640
And I think you're walking into a spot
where

887
01:11:52,320 --> 01:12:03,040
there is now some vegetables among the
weeds and it's always an improvement. I

888
01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:08,480
was here um about two months when the
brand new finance director gave us

889
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:15,040
notice and I had asked at that point if
we could outsource with a accounting

890
01:12:12,320 --> 01:12:20,719
firm to come in here whether it was
200,000 250,000 and get things set up

891
01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:25,120
for the next finance director and I
couldn't get support for that and it's

892
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:32,520
been continually
um a a revolving door. However,

893
01:12:28,960 --> 01:12:32,520
in the last

894
01:12:33,760 --> 01:12:45,840
in the last two years,
it has been the best that it has been in

895
01:12:41,920 --> 01:12:52,960
at least five. And I believe
in my heart that Ellsworth's financial

896
01:12:48,640 --> 01:12:58,560
problem dates back way before anybody
was willing to admit to it. I'm not

897
01:12:56,080 --> 01:13:04,320
saying anybody has done anything wrong,
but I think people have got bogged down

898
01:13:02,239 --> 01:13:12,159
with the day-to-day invoices and it's
been hard. It's it's been redundance of

899
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:18,880
work, not management of work. And there
were five here.

900
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:24,719
And these people have, especially the
last gentleman that had your position,

901
01:13:21,360 --> 01:13:31,840
has really printed uh a lot of
information that we never had on a

902
01:13:27,679 --> 01:13:39,760
finance situation. We had actuals to
budget. We had year-to- date. Um, and

903
01:13:36,159 --> 01:13:45,360
when I first got here 5 years ago, it
was on a white table and a stack of

904
01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:50,239
invoices. You look through and that was
it. There was no information.

905
01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:55,120
» And in the last 5 years, it has evolved
into,

906
01:13:51,760 --> 01:14:00,880
um, YouTube coverage, um, audio, video
of this meeting. Um, and there has been

907
01:13:58,640 --> 01:14:06,640
a heck of a lot of progress that has
been made. However,

908
01:14:03,520 --> 01:14:14,239
weeds don't die easy. And when you have
a field of weeds,

909
01:14:08,719 --> 01:14:19,920
it's hard and it takes time to fix the
weeds into a vegetable garden. And I

910
01:14:17,840 --> 01:14:27,480
only use that analogy because I noticed
that you have used a lot of analogies

911
01:14:22,159 --> 01:14:27,480
which I enjoy. And

912
01:14:27,520 --> 01:14:37,280
what you're inheriting today is far
better than any finance director has

913
01:14:34,159 --> 01:14:42,400
inherited in the last 5 years. I know it
looks terribly bad, but at least you

914
01:14:39,840 --> 01:14:47,679
have some reports because when I first
got here, there were no reports.

915
01:14:45,040 --> 01:14:53,760
Absolutely none. You wouldn't have been
able to see what you've seen

916
01:14:50,400 --> 01:14:58,800
if it wouldn't been continuous
improvement. Now, maybe the energy

917
01:14:56,719 --> 01:15:06,000
hasn't always been in the right spot.
Maybe there's been some poor decisions,

918
01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:10,880
but I I just want to say that certainly
it's wonderful to hear your perspective.

919
01:15:08,560 --> 01:15:16,960
But what you can see, you wouldn't have
seen three years ago. I promise you. I

920
01:15:14,080 --> 01:15:22,719
think Ashley could uh admit to that what
you can see

921
01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:28,560
you would not have seen three years ago.
Nor

922
01:15:25,440 --> 01:15:36,960
would you have anything to work with.
And as as light as it may be um and as

923
01:15:33,280 --> 01:15:42,400
basic as it may be, it has improved and
it sounds like you're going to make sure

924
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:50,800
that it improves greatly.
We the other thing too is I believe

925
01:15:48,960 --> 01:15:57,600
that
we all want the same things and we all

926
01:15:54,000 --> 01:16:03,280
see different priorities. Um but if we
don't know our finances, we don't know

927
01:16:01,040 --> 01:16:09,280
who we are.
Um, and

928
01:16:06,640 --> 01:16:14,560
people can lie about numbers,
but numbers can't lie.

929
01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:20,320
And
I think this has been very informative

930
01:16:17,040 --> 01:16:25,679
and very real
and thank you.

931
01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:32,960
» I I appreciate that perspective and and
that wisdom for sure. And uh I will take

932
01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:35,280
that to heart cuz I you know I um I I
certainly have a lot of turnaround

933
01:16:33,920 --> 01:16:41,679
experience but I have no experience with
Ellsworth. And uh

934
01:16:38,320 --> 01:16:46,640
but I I I do uh one thing that resonated
so much is that despite the spirited

935
01:16:44,640 --> 01:16:50,560
dialogue and I've only had I didn't have
I haven't had a lot of time right to

936
01:16:48,880 --> 01:16:56,480
watch too much but I know there's kind
of healthy dialogue in in the town. um

937
01:16:54,640 --> 01:17:02,640
what what counselor just said in terms
of it it's so clear that people love

938
01:16:59,679 --> 01:17:09,440
this place and it it all comes from that
like people's concern genuine concern

939
01:17:06,239 --> 01:17:14,960
about it and uh and I I also I just I
guess I want you to know that I I don't

940
01:17:12,080 --> 01:17:19,840
take that trust lightly. I don't know if
I'm the guy. Uh I don't I don't know if

941
01:17:16,880 --> 01:17:23,199
I can fix it. I think sometimes in this
country, you know, we're looking for

942
01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:28,000
heroes or we're looking for villains.
And I want to say I'm neither. But I

943
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:33,920
think I'm an opportunity
for all of us to uh let's work together

944
01:17:30,960 --> 01:17:40,000
with a a the kind of constructive spirit
where we address real problems uh in a

945
01:17:37,280 --> 01:17:45,120
factual way and and head on because I
think we're we have everything we need

946
01:17:42,400 --> 01:17:47,600
in our boat uh to save it, but we got to
work together. So

947
01:17:46,080 --> 01:17:52,800
» yeah, I'd say that. Thank you very much,
Steve. I think that's incredibly

948
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:56,880
accurate reflection of the progress the
fin I think we can get bogged down

949
01:17:54,239 --> 01:18:00,480
because as you noted in those 175 items
like I put a lot of those together on

950
01:17:58,320 --> 01:18:05,280
that dare to fix finances project
management list and I think coming back

951
01:18:03,280 --> 01:18:09,040
into the finance director role very
briefly as we were trying to hire you.

952
01:18:07,520 --> 01:18:12,320
It was just concerning on how much we
still had to do and but also to your

953
01:18:10,880 --> 01:18:16,480
point, Steve, which I think is important
on just having the data, the

954
01:18:14,159 --> 01:18:19,679
transparency piece. You know, it hasn't
always been easy when I we started

955
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:25,199
publishing these pieces and draft
budgets online um with prior actuals,

956
01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:28,320
final budgets. We've had some actually
some great feedback from citizens,

957
01:18:26,560 --> 01:18:32,159
including last week about an alewife
thing, which we'll look into, and I love

958
01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:37,840
those pieces. But to Steve, to your
point on kind of the resource deployment

959
01:18:34,960 --> 01:18:42,480
and the structure itself on all the
invoices and all the work that's being

960
01:18:39,760 --> 01:18:46,880
done here and um getting to that higher
level of our team that's got a lot of

961
01:18:45,440 --> 01:18:50,560
experience now, you know, three years
tenure, which is first in the city and

962
01:18:48,880 --> 01:18:54,560
it's really all due to Ashley and Deb
and Leia. The backbone, Chris coming in

963
01:18:52,880 --> 01:18:59,760
is going to be a new piece, but then how
do we create a system for them to truly

964
01:18:56,560 --> 01:19:03,120
succeed to get at that that hole in the
boat? We can't just keep bailing out and

965
01:19:01,679 --> 01:19:06,960
expect that the water's not going to
keep coming in on this piece. It's the I

966
01:19:05,199 --> 01:19:11,679
know it's my northstar. The resources I
know Steve on, you know, the accounting

967
01:19:09,840 --> 01:19:15,040
stuff we've talked about in the in the
previous I I would say they said city

968
01:19:13,840 --> 01:19:19,120
did they didn't really tell anybody
about it. They did hire the same

969
01:19:17,280 --> 01:19:23,280
auditing firm that was doing the or the
reconcil to do reconciliations at great

970
01:19:21,199 --> 01:19:26,560
costs like a quarter million dollars
without really even telling anybody.

971
01:19:24,719 --> 01:19:30,800
They when I was arrived we were spending
tens of thousand dollars a week in

972
01:19:28,719 --> 01:19:33,920
warrants on that. Um, we tried to bring
it in house. We tried to make it much

973
01:19:32,239 --> 01:19:37,840
more cost- effective. It hasn't gotten
us back to the fully recon system. So,

974
01:19:36,320 --> 01:19:41,840
you know, I know Chris is already
looking and working with the team on how

975
01:19:39,280 --> 01:19:45,760
do we how do we get back up to speed and
then how do we resource it moving

976
01:19:43,520 --> 01:19:49,960
forward so we can handle this. Um, but
have every confidence we're going to do

977
01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:49,960
so.

978
01:19:51,600 --> 01:19:55,679
» Great. I think we only put one or two
people to sleep in the audience today.

979
01:19:54,480 --> 01:19:58,640
» Yeah,
>> it's one of my one of my gifts.

980
01:19:57,930 --> 01:20:02,320
[laughter]
Thank you.

981
01:20:00,320 --> 01:20:07,280
» All I can say is everybody needs to keep
up the good work. I mean, there's light

982
01:20:04,159 --> 01:20:13,600
at the end of the tunnel. I'm I'm I'm
new. I I come on this what my first full

983
01:20:10,960 --> 01:20:19,440
year going on being on the finance
committee and being a counselor and it's

984
01:20:16,239 --> 01:20:24,880
like, yeah, you can do this. It's going
to be tough. No one said it wasn't going

985
01:20:21,840 --> 01:20:32,280
to be easy, but you got to love a
challenge.

986
01:20:26,960 --> 01:20:32,280
» Thank you. Okay, I got to go pay my