[0:02] Great. Thank you all. Um,
welcome to the finance committee meeting
[0:07] on Monday, August 24th.
Uh,
[0:13] first of all, just wanted to uh note uh
thank you to Chris for jumping on board
[0:18] here and uh drinking from the fire hose.
It's been a very illuminating few weeks
[0:24] and I think one of it validates I know
with a lot of the team members that
[0:27] you've met with already who've been um
really enjoyed your conversations and I
[0:33] think what stands out to me most is
taking kind of a systems level approach
[0:36] to where we're at and you know not just
you know getting the blocking and
[0:41] tackling done which is one piece but we
have to you know have a systems
[0:46] integration a systems design um that's
beyond the people that are here and It's
[0:51] been, you know, probably six years
coming with this, but I really feel like
[0:54] we're on the right track um based on our
conversations to get things back into
[0:59] best-in-class uh in the city of
Ellsworth, which is a fundamental
[1:02] responsibility for us. So, um really
looking forward to more and I know you
[1:06] have more updates later on, so I won't
um step over your pieces. Uh I'd also
[1:12] like to know I had some discussions with
our police chief. We have a uh an event,
[1:17] a Labor Day event on Monday here at city
hall that's going to require potentially
[1:21] a significant amount of police overtime.
We've checked into this before on sort
[1:25] of reimbursements for groups like this.
Um because when private organizations
[1:31] require police time, we we typically
have a reimbursement policy for that.
[1:36] Um, but those which are more in the free
speech category, political category. Um,
[1:41] there's less of cl legal clarity on
being able to be reimbursed for that. I
[1:45] know we don't have this as much as some
other cities and towns. It's become a
[1:49] huge line item, but I'd like to get a
little more visibility into how much
[1:52] this is costing us. So, I've asked the
chief to get me a breakdown um and, you
[1:57] know, to at least make a request that
there's a reimbursement for the police
[2:00] resources that the city of Ellsworth is
is covering here. I think that's one of
[2:04] the service center issues that we come
into. I'm sure there'll be a ton of
[2:08] people here in Ellsworth that are not
from Ellsworth. Uh but the police
[2:12] resources that are being paid for this
are exclusively on the taxpayers of of
[2:16] Ellsworth. So it's um there's not I
don't think too much we can do about it,
[2:21] but at least we can be visible about
what the cost is and at least try to get
[2:25] some reimbursement.
>> So all the officers that are serving on
[2:29] that day or time and a half
>> time and a half, correct? It's a Yeah.
[2:32] Labor Day holiday. So, um, and they're
going to have to be more brought in for
[2:36] it. So,
>> I don't think that is correct.
[2:39] » What's that?
>> I think Labor Day
[2:43] » is double time.
>> Oh, double time. Yeah.
[2:46] » Let me let me check.
>> Typically, that's what
[2:54] they get. Holiday pay.
>> And I asked the chief to give me a a
[2:58] rundown of what the costs are going to
be here. So I'm assuming in that it'll
[3:01] be a breakdown of that.
>> Is that is that all holidays
[3:06] » if they work it? I believe.
>> Okay.
[3:12] » That's something to look into.
>> Yeah, for sure.
[3:14] » Make sure
>> for clarity. Uh I believe Labor Day is
[3:17] double pay plus the holiday pay. Some
people call it triple pay, but the
[3:22] holiday pay was going to exist
regardless.
[3:25] » The holiday pay bakes in whether you
work it or not.
[3:29] » Yeah. And I think that's
>> so it's a little confusing in my world
[3:31] or in other people's world as well that
the Labor Day pay is going to I believe
[3:36] is a paid holiday and then you have
double time because it's a holiday.
[3:41] » So the chief's getting me a financial
rundown of of what that'll be.
[3:45] » Um
>> and I'm also meeting with them this
[3:47] week. So
>> great.
[3:48] » I'll have my own question.
Uh and now we'll switch to uh a
[3:53] discussion with Mike Works on updating
costs for the Bridge Hill repair and
[3:57] updating the repair. And just like to
say, you know, thank you to the
[4:01] community for their patience here. We um
our teams have been working diligently
[4:05] on it since everybody was out there
until late in the evening when it first
[4:08] happened getting it repaired and
stabilized so our hospitals and
[4:13] businesses can continue to operate with
water in the next days. Thank you to all
[4:16] the work you guys did to to make that
happen. and then all the additional work
[4:20] you're doing now to get repaired in that
um that intersection back up to snuff.
[4:25] » Yep. So,
um
[4:29] Northeast Paving is up there right now.
Uh they're starting to grind the road.
[4:33] Um
and then it should be they should be
[4:39] paving by the end of today, maybe
tomorrow, and expect to be done paving
[4:44] Wednesday.
So, we would expect the road to be open
[4:47] either Wednesday afternoon or Thursday
morning for normal traffic.
[4:52] » And that that's u removing the hot top
down the gravel.
[4:57] » Yep.
>> Fixing the base and then going back with
[5:00] two two and it compaction lifts. Yep.
>> Yep. Uh compaction and then 2 and 1/2 in
[5:08] of base, 2 in of intermediate, inch and
a half of surface. So, six inches of
[5:12] total pavement going back.
which is from the DOT.
[5:19] » That's what the DOT sent out.
>> And can you talk a little bit more? At
[5:23] the last council meeting, we had a
discussion on um DOT and should we leave
[5:30] it as gravel for a little while till see
if there's any other breaks? And what
[5:34] was the response to that?
>> Response was the same. Um,
[5:39] like I said in the council meeting, if
this was a road that we could leave
[5:42] closed and shut down to settle for a
couple weeks, then that would be um a
[5:50] good strategy. But with this particular
road, especially opening it back up to
[5:53] traffic, you have several hazards that
you would incur during that. One of
[5:58] which is if we have a big rainstorm, all
that gravel is going to go away. The
[6:02] second of which is if big trucks are
trying to slow down on that hill, which
[6:05] is a pretty steep grade on gravel,
that's usually not a good thing either.
[6:10] I spoke to John Tero at the DOT. He
concurred. Um his response again was fix
[6:16] it as soon as possible. So that's what
we're doing.
[6:22] » Great. And then in terms of cost
comparison for the roads compared to
[6:26] what our previous like price for paving
and whatnot, um have you been able to do
[6:31] analysis of that?
>> No, but this it came the price they gave
[6:35] us came in a lot further under than we
thought it was going to. We thought it
[6:40] was going to be around 200 250 came in
at 125.
[6:45] » And then the eventual funding mechanism
for this what do you
[6:48] » Yep. So, what I would like to do is be
up to the council, but we um pulled a um
[6:55] bond, the water department pulled a bond
back in 2023, 2024 for the Oak Street
[7:01] water main to be replaced during the
DOT's rebuilding of Oak Street, which
[7:05] was supposed to happen this year and has
now been delayed at least two years.
[7:12] 2028, I think, is when they have it on
the work plan to do engineering. and
[7:15] then uh you still have to go through the
engineering piece. So, it probably
[7:19] wouldn't even get started until 29 or
30. Um that bond is is an actual bond.
[7:26] It's not a ban. It's been taken out. The
bond bank wants us to draw it down.
[7:30] We've explained to them that we can't
draw it down yet because the project's
[7:34] not taking place. Um, so I would like to
um come to the council and ask for
[7:41] reallocation of that money to
um pay for this project and possibly
[7:47] other stuff that the water has coming up
um so that we can satisfy the bond bank,
[7:54] not just have that money sitting around
while we're waiting for DOT to finally
[7:59] get going on Oak Street.
>> Okay. Okay. So, we'll come back with the
[8:05] to the council the financing plan with
this. There's a bit of road capital
[8:11] funding that could potentially cover
this in reserve account.
[8:13] » Yeah. I mean, we have some reserve
money, too. We have
[8:17] Yes, we do have some other monies that
we could use for it. Um, and if that's
[8:22] the choice, that's the choice. I'm just
like there's I think that bond is like a
[8:27] million plus and it's just been the bond
bank has been communicating with us
[8:32] wondering when we're going to start
drawing it down and we told them um but
[8:39] um doesn't make sense to sit on it for 3
years if we have immediate projects that
[8:44] could we could use it for without
hitting the user initially hitting the
[8:49] users or the taxpayers.
[8:55] Um, Mike and I talked about getting
together. I mean, this is a whole set of
[9:01] stuff in terms of funds and needs and
whatever. And this is one of my but one
[9:07] of my many but kind of burning
priorities. So, we're going to get
[9:10] together I thought Wednesday.
>> Um, he's bringing his folks including
[9:14] the Woodard and Curran folks.
>> Yep. just like get a handle on what it
[9:19] is and I think we can come up with some
reasonable options there. So, great.
[9:27] » Any questions for Mike from council?
>> I'd like to go on record in saying this.
[9:34] If you've
already made arrangements with a bond
[9:38] bank for a particular project
and you're going to use it for a
[9:43] different project,
um, that's not lining up liabilities
[9:48] with assets.
And I'm here to tell you that that is
[9:53] one dangerous move. You're lying to
ourselves and lying to the city of
[10:00] Ellsworth. If we say
if we're going to borrow money with a
[10:06] different liability and move that money
because the liability is not here yet,
[10:11] we're lying to ourselves. That's a very
dangerous situation. Extremely
[10:16] dangerous. If we don't need the money
for that project, then
[10:24] that needs not to be drawn down. We need
to face our real problems upfront and
[10:30] not hide them and push that two years
down the road. When that project comes
[10:35] and says, "Oh, well, we use the money
for something else." That's not going to
[10:39] look very good. We need to identify the
need for the money. If you and pay for
[10:47] that or borrow it with that as the
liability lined up. So you have asset
[10:52] liability, repair surprise liability. We
can't be doing that maneuver of borrow
[11:01] money for this intent and spend it for
this intent.
[11:09] You we've already encumbered that money
or funding for the Oak Street project
[11:16] » for the water man. Yeah.
>> Yeah. And
[11:22] I wouldn't change it.
The we should be having the engineering
[11:27] done on our water line and what needs to
be replaced and do that. Get ready for
[11:32] that before they actually
do everything else.
[11:38] » You see what I mean?
>> Yeah. Question is, are they ever going
[11:41] to do it? When you
[clears throat and cough] when you when
[11:45] you when when we the state does road
projects, they want everything under the
[11:50] ground taken care of, whether it's uh
power, communication,
[11:56] uh water, sewer, drainage. That it's
like making sure your foundation of your
[12:01] house done first and done right
and prevents deals where now we got to
[12:10] tear up pavement. That's like painting
your house and inside and everything and
[12:14] deciding, well, I'm going to put in a
picture window,
[12:19] less than a year later.
It It's or like for people who deal with
[12:24] automobiles and stuff, it's like
painting your car, making it look real
[12:28] pretty, and then pulling the engine out,
and then being pissed off because you've
[12:33] scratched the paint.
There's other ways to fund that.
[12:39] We haven't encumbered. we we we we
decide we're going to give money to
[12:44] nonprofits, why don't we just use shift
those funds around and it's a less
[12:49] burden on the taxpayers because either
way you look at it, they're going to
[12:54] spend the money. These are all things
that I've been telling people about.
[12:59] Those things that are hidden under the
ground, I wish I had X-ray vision. I
[13:02] could go around and tell you exactly
what's going to happen.
[13:06] No sense kicking the can down the road,
you know. and it it doesn't make
[13:12] financial sense. You you've got these
liabilities,
[13:17] you got these repairs, and you got all
of this stuff. It needs to equal out.
[13:22] It's like balancing your checkbook,
balancing your budget for your
[13:25] household.
Any
[13:31] questions for my
>> um the band bond that we have for this
[13:36] Oak Street project is it and excuse my
ignorance on the subject but because it
[13:42] now is forecasted to happen far into the
future if it happens when it happens. Um
[13:49] can we can we return the ban bond? Can
we cancel that and
[13:56] and then figure out a different way to
fund this
[14:01] Bridge Hill project? I'm just curious
about this band bond. Is it going to sit
[14:05] there until Oak Street happens or
what do we do in a in a scenario like
[14:12] this where a project gets canceled or
kicked down the roads?
[14:16] » I don't know.
>> I'd like to know why we borrowed the
[14:19] money before we needed it.
Because the project was supposed to like
[14:25] I said happen
this year was supposed to be
[14:29] constructed. So they would have done the
engineering in previous years and they
[14:34] wanted to include the water man which
was before my tenure as
[14:39] public works director. Um, and so the
thought process was that we
[14:45] [clears throat]
take out a bond to be able to do it as
[14:48] part of the DOT project so it would cost
less money to do the water man while the
[14:52] road was being dug up. And nobody knew
that the DOT was going to
[14:58] delay the project
indefinitely. Basically, they're saying
[15:02] that they're looking at possibly
engineering it in 28, but that
[15:08] it's one of those things where the DOT
from year to year, just like this year,
[15:13] they cancelled $400 million worth of
projects and then they putund and
[15:17] something million back on the books, but
the other ones are just put off until
[15:21] whenever because their funding's right
up.
[15:25] » Sir, do you remember this? Was this the
CDS one? I remember we had like a bunch
[15:28] of infrastructure things change and
there was a designation
[15:33] um year and a half ago or so um that I
think might have been part of this one
[15:38] as well. So there was yeah the
expectation was main DOT was going to
[15:42] move in do the infrastructure change um
you know had a little bit more clarity
[15:46] about what this was going to be. I can't
remember.
[15:48] » We still have a storm a huge storm water
project that we also received millions
[15:54] of dollars for that is going forward
because it's independent of
[16:00] the DOT project to
fix the storm water lines from Oak
[16:06] Street to the river, the two major trunk
lines. So that when the DOT project was
[16:12] done, which they intent when they were
supposed to construct it was to put in
[16:16] new um a whole new under underground
storm drain system, but our storm drains
[16:23] weren't adequate to hook into their new
storm drains that we're going to put in.
[16:27] So,
um,
[16:30] we are engaged in right now, I think
we're pretty close to final design for,
[16:39] um, rehabbing
both main trunk lines that come from Oak
[16:44] Street, one down through the parking lot
of city hall, and one down over to the
[16:48] river over here to be ready
to
[16:54] connect to the new storm drains. things
that they put in when they finally
[16:58] decide to do Oak Street. So that project
is
[17:02] also underway.
>> So the essentially there was a
[17:10] a plan for DOT to spend and do this
project. It made sense to do it at the
[17:14] same time.
>> We saw bond authorization and this this
[17:16] bond hasn't been drawn down. This has
just been applied for and
[17:19] » like I said, they're asking us
>> um so they're now getting to an
[17:22] expiration timeline. So, we'll come back
to the council on if there's um
[17:29] interest in doing a reapplication or if
there's interest in just letting this uh
[17:35] hit an expiration time frame and we
reapply once that project has a little
[17:38] more clarity on when it's going to need
funding. But, we'll do a little more
[17:42] work on it. just financially I I just
need to come up to speed on it because
[17:48] um a lot of moving pieces but you know
unlike maybe some of the other
[17:52] departments in the town these are very
big bets uh these are these are dollars
[17:58] that make a huge difference so I just
need to understand what it is what was
[18:02] the purpose I think there are some
legitimate questions raised here what
[18:07] were they for is that still valid and
even if by the way you get awarded a
[18:12] million bucks based upon a scoping from
a year ago, two years ago. If you delay
[18:17] that project three or four years, are
those costs still valid? Maybe it's not
[18:21] even funded adequately right now.
Anyway,
[18:25] I and I I think we have enough whatever
we have enough brain power around the
[18:30] table and we we'll make good decisions,
but I I need to know what it is first.
[18:35] » Yeah. And I'm a little you know, there's
an aspect this is unexpected. Um we want
[18:40] to move
forward but um and figure out a good way
[18:45] to finance it. But I also have you know
I know um the backdrop is a good
[18:50] example. I remember when I was
researching original bonds, um, that
[18:54] thing I think was in three different
bonds
[18:57] and
>> it got reallocated every time,
[18:59] » reallocated to other things every single
time over a six-year period of time and
[19:04] you know, I think our latest bond cycle
included the backdrop, included the road
[19:08] repairs, included other things and
sticking to when that initial order is
[19:12] and then what the projects are. Um,
sure, in an ideal world, if there's
[19:16] reallocation, tons of public
transparency, here's to your point,
[19:19] Steve, here's how it lines up. But I
think to your point, Chris, on the
[19:24] financial turnaround and getting our
ducks in a row, until that happens, we
[19:28] probably shouldn't just be reallocating
from one to the other and then how it
[19:30] gets processed and paperworked over
until we have the system for all that in
[19:34] place, too.
>> Can you remind me what the Bridgeill
[19:39] project is expected to cost?
>> 125,000.
[19:43] » Okay. Thank you.
[19:48] So, one more point to that.
If the city can't afford
[19:54] $125,000
problem and you have to finance that
[19:59] problem,
that's one thing.
[20:05] but burying it in other loans that five
years from today hopefully it's paid off
[20:12] but or three years from today when
there's different people sitting at this
[20:16] table
um we need good paperwork good paperwork
[20:20] makes good friends and you've got to
have debt lined up with use and I can't
[20:26] say that enough
um this is equivalent to financing
[20:32] today's lunch if we have to finance
today's lunch, that's fine. That's where
[20:36] we're at. But we don't want to be there
10 years from now. And the more of a
[20:41] mess we make today, the more of a mess
we're going to have 10 years from now.
[20:49] Thank you, Mike.
[20:55] Now we'll go to uh Scott Gillo, fire
chief for an update and cost discussion
[21:00] on the firetruck repair.
>> Good morning. Could I stop you just for
[21:04] a second?
>> Yes, sir.
[21:05] » I'd like to compliment you for bringing
this to this committee and making this
[21:11] transparent before you need the money.
What I read from here, you see you might
[21:17] need the money and you're telling us now
because you're burning up some of your
[21:21] budget which was unforeseen for that. I
think that is incredibly good. You're
[21:28] coming and telling the story
before
[21:33] the story needs to be addressed and
thank you very much.
[21:37] » Welcome.
>> So, get to your point, uh, part of this,
[21:43] uh, at the city manager's request, he
did want me to come forward with this.
[21:46] Uh, he and I have had some discussions
about where we're at. Squad five, um,
[21:52] let me back trace this a little bit. In
previous years, the city did not have a
[21:56] city mechanic and we outsourced every
vehicle repair um to local vendors.
[22:04] Um there's a huge cost that goes with
that and the city uh brought on a city
[22:08] mechanic to help balance some of that
cost out. Now, there are some things
[22:11] that the city mechanic just can't do. Um
when it comes to fire apparatus, he's
[22:16] not a pump mechanic. He's a diesel
mechanic. He can handle everything
[22:19] that's related to the chassis and the
diesel portions of the fire truck. But
[22:23] when it comes to the pumps and the
aerial ladder, that exceeds what his
[22:28] capability is. So, we do have to use
thirdparty vendors. Um, we try to stay
[22:33] local when we can. However, I'll use
ladder one for example. That's a
[22:37] specialty item that's got to go all the
way down to Lewon to get its repairs
[22:42] done. U, so
coming up today to today's date, the
[22:46] city mechanic now does all the vehicle
inspections for uh our apparatus here in
[22:51] the city. Um, in doing so, Squad 5 went
to have its vehicle inspection done and
[22:57] it failed predominantly due to
suspension work both front and rear. Um,
[23:03] the initial cost quotes that I got was
around $10,000. I had a quick discussion
[23:07] with uh the city manager. It is an
emergency repair. We cannot not have
[23:12] this truck on the road. It's already
been off the road now for three weeks.
[23:16] Um, so we have the parts. The parts are
coming in. The truck's supposed to go
[23:20] into the city mechanic on August 31st to
get its work done and get it taken care
[23:25] of. Um the additional cost obviously is
we have tires that we have to buy and
[23:30] all that stuff to bring it up to speed
and then I'll have to go get its
[23:34] alignment done over at uh Cwell service.
So um so good portion of that as you saw
[23:39] in the breakdown for what we spent
already is about $10,000 that has
[23:44] already been spent into our budget.
Ladder one's going to have to go out for
[23:48] repairs. Um, we have annual
certification testing for that ladder.
[23:54] Uh, it's got to go down and have work
done on the hydraulic system because
[23:57] there's a uh there's a recirculation
problem and it's contaminating and
[24:01] leaking. Uh, at the same time, we have
an electrical issue with the uh power
[24:06] supply that runs the entire length of
that 75 ft ladder to the tip. So, it's
[24:11] going to go down to Lewon and it's going
to have that work done so it can pass
[24:13] its annual certification test. Uh if we
didn't do that, the the city of
[24:18] Ellsworth would not have a ladder truck
immediately available.
[24:22] That's going to cost around $7,000 to
do. We just got the quote here on Friday
[24:26] uh on Friday, um which is part of the uh
if you read through your packet, you'll
[24:31] see it's included in that packet. Um
again, I think the biggest picture that
[24:37] we're trying to paint is this is not a
lack of maintenance. Um you guys are
[24:42] here in the morning for finance
committee. You guys are here uh other
[24:46] days during the week and you hear it.
These guys are out here every single day
[24:50] doing their pre-trip inspections on the
truck and making sure they're ready for
[24:53] service every single day. They're
finding these problems every single day.
[24:58] We have an aging fleet. And that's what
that's basically what this is telling us
[25:02] is we have an aging fleet. We're working
on it. It's identified in the CIP. We've
[25:06] worked very very hard to identify a
long-term plan to set up a replacement
[25:12] schedule for all our apparatus. Uh but I
think the story today is is we allocated
[25:18] $65,000 to the annual budget for this
year. We felt that that was right in
[25:23] line. We did not anticipate spending
close to $20,000 right in the first
[25:29] quarter of the year. Um so really uh we
want to come before you. We're not
[25:34] asking for any additional money. Uh
we're going to keep our eye on this. We
[25:38] have some other stuff that we have to do
o over the next couple of months that
[25:41] we're have to do every single year. Pump
testing, uh, service service things that
[25:47] we do with the pumps and things like
that. Um, but we're going to keep an eye
[25:51] on it very closely. Uh, and I'll stay in
contact with the finance director as we
[25:56] get through to December and we can start
to project out where we're going to be.
[26:00] My hopes are is that
[26:05] with the sale with engine two going into
reserve in the spring, uh we may see
[26:09] some of that go some of those costs go
away. Um
[26:14] it's really hard to predict when a
truck's going to fail. Uh and that's the
[26:17] hard part. Um, but I think the fact that
these guys are doing carrot maintenance
[26:22] every single day, um, they're working
aggressively with the city mechanic to
[26:27] get work done via the city mechanic to
keep the labor cost down on our overall
[26:31] budget. Um,
that's really the state of affair for
[26:35] the fire department right now when it
comes to the vehicle budget.
[26:40] » I I feel your pain. I've I used to be a
heavy equipment mechanic, so I've worked
[26:46] on stuff bigger than this. And the and
trucks, it it's they're so easy. They
[26:53] they get picked apart really really bad,
you know, and they need to be safe.
[26:58] Okay. Um so, but you we use them.
They're going to wear out. They need to
[27:05] be taken care of. And uh kudos. I like
this. you brought all this information
[27:11] to us. So, you're you're you're giving
us fair warning that if some more issues
[27:19] come up, it's going to we're going to
have to reallocate some money for you.
[27:24] So,
and and it's also sending me a signal
[27:30] that um
we only have one city mechanic.
[27:38] We need to have two,
>> possibly three because agree with you
[27:44] » because in my mind
>> I [snorts and clears throat] used to
[27:48] have to juggle on which stuff needed to
get done and what superintendent
[27:52] actually needed because I was only one
and when can I pull more resources from
[27:57] the company to to accomplish what I have
to do. Obviously, there was some job
[28:02] sites that kind of got pushed back a
little bit, but still you, you know, if
[28:10] you're doing a rare, you know, doing a
water line crossing or sewer line
[28:14] crossing on under a railroad or a major
artery, h this little job's going to
[28:19] have to take take a break. And I'd
communicate that with my my shop foreman
[28:24] equipment superintendent.
So, with that, we only have one
[28:29] mechanic. So hopefully they understand
that you're more of a priority.
[28:35] » Public works has been working well with
us. I think Mike would agree. We have
[28:38] one city mechanic. He's task saturated
in a short department.
[28:42] » Mhm.
>> They're short manpower. So um he has to
[28:45] prioritize uh apparatus and what needs
to come in first. And sometimes we get
[28:49] ahead of the line and sometimes we have
to wait depending on what vehicle it is.
[28:53] However, um I think I would agree with
your sentiments. We we have one mechanic
[28:58] trying to take care of a city worth of
heavy vehicles.
[29:01] » Yes. All the equipment. Uh they he they
should be also working on the city owned
[29:07] police cruises which are liability.
[clears throat]
[29:10] You know it
it you know you can't it doesn't pay to
[29:16] lease fire trucks because
we're not the same as every other
[29:23] municipality. We're unique. We're
different. We have We are the largest
[29:29] city in area in the state of Maine.
There's a lot of areas you got to go. A
[29:35] lot of the equipment you have are
different from the surrounding towns,
[29:39] municipalities,
and the counties. Okay. So,
[29:44] yeah. Um,
thank you for bringing this.
[29:50] And I I don't like surprises. [laughter]
Unfortunately, you deal with a lot of
[29:55] surprises, you know what I mean? And I
don't like you, you know, I feel bad
[29:58] that you get surprised. I
>> I don't think any there's any one of us
[30:02] like having to be reactive.
>> So,
[30:05] » preventive maintenance is a lot better
than demand maintenance. That's why you
[30:09] run into a lot of money when you have
breakdowns that are not anticipated.
[30:16] If I could weigh in a little bit more on
that, um I would like to say this that
[30:23] certainly one mechanic for the amount of
power units that the city owns um seem a
[30:31] bit light
given that there's one mechanic.
[30:36] I think there needs to be a balance of
where am I in the queue for our mechanic
[30:43] to outsource this and get this thing
fixed now because before you know it
[30:48] you'll have a garage full of stuff with
a cue uh of repairs and time is ticking
[30:57] and I think there is uh a balance there.
Hey, I've got this problem. And just to
[31:03] interject, trucks have
a certain way of looking into your
[31:11] checkbook
when
[31:14] when it's the lowest it could be and
presenting you with a surprise. I have
[31:22] lived that life my entire life. And when
you're in the roughest shape is when the
[31:27] biggest problems show up. And there has
to be a balance there. We can't just
[31:33] queue up on one guy. Um we can't um
sometimes the $170,
[31:41] I don't know what you're paying for
labor. Let's say it's $175 an hour. That
[31:47] guy works on that every day and he can
do it in three hours. and the guy that
[31:52] is a a broad guy um that touches
everything, it may take him eight hours
[32:00] because there's a learning curve there.
And I think that that has to be weighed
[32:04] um and it gets back to
um the cost of public works, fire
[32:11] department, and police.
Charlie and I disagree, but I think that
[32:18] those are very, very important. And I
think those are hard to judge and those
[32:25] departments are all catchall
departments, especially public works.
[32:30] And it's hard to budget for a group of
aging trucks. It's also hard to budget
[32:37] for downtime on new trucks. You can't
win. Um, and cuz brand new trucks
[32:45] have their own sets of problems in the
last 10 years with all the
[32:48] environmental.
>> So, it's it's very difficult. Um, and I
[32:56] I I think that what I'm hearing is
great, but I also think that we really
[33:00] need to figure
um there is a cost in creating a long
[33:06] waiting line. And I think there has to
be a balance there. Even if your budget
[33:10] is messed up by November, I think there
has to be a budget of preparedness. And
[33:15] I don't have to tell you about
preparedness, but I if we wait for our
[33:20] mechanic, um you may be waiting a long
time and your bill next year will be
[33:26] even more unpredictable.
[33:30] » Let me just say a couple quick. When uh
councelor was talking about peering into
[33:34] your checkbook, I thought you were going
to talk about my kids uh not not trucks.
[33:38] my little one. I I think she's looking
in my wallet right now. [laughter]
[33:44] Um, [snorts]
you know, I've only been here a couple
[33:47] weeks, but I would be the only only
thing I would uh maybe uh I'm not sure I
[33:53] totally agree is that in my brief tenure
here, I'm not sure I've met one person
[34:00] who doesn't agree that these departments
are the the core of the city. Um, and to
[34:06] that point, uh, and I've I've spent
reasonable amount of time, and I'm going
[34:11] to spend more time in the next even just
couple weeks, we're going to spend some
[34:14] focus time together. Um, I've been uh
not only impressed, impressed is too
[34:20] light a word, but I I guess maybe almost
moved uh their commitment and their
[34:25] creativeness and resourcefulness
to keep things moving forward because
[34:30] they are the point of the spear uh in
terms of you know safety and the public
[34:35] trust and our infrastructure and
whatever. um given their resource
[34:40] constraints. And from that standpoint, I
I want to say, you know, I I haven't
[34:43] been here that long, but a lot of what
they're talking about is on me, frankly,
[34:48] is the way I look at it. Um cuz
underlying all this stuff, they're
[34:52] talking about having to stand on their
head to make it work. Whether it's
[34:58] servicing, keeping the vehicles on the
road with insufficient
[35:03] uh mechanics and resources and whatever.
How do I get these roads open? How do
[35:08] you keep the water moving and whatever?
I feel like the clock is ticking and
[35:13] it's on me because they they've how many
different ways can they say the
[35:18] infrastructure needs work. It's old.
It's aging. And I think you guys have
[35:23] also raised a great point that you know
we just can't constantly play
[35:26] whack-a-ole financially. So once I can
figure out where are we and what do we
[35:32] got then how do we actually together how
do we plan ahead enough that we can come
[35:38] around this table and say hey how do we
actually get a handle and project out
[35:41] ahead to get ahead of this
infrastructure problem because otherwise
[35:46] these guys are always going to be you
know uh scrambling around we're going to
[35:50] be price takers in the market taxpayers
are going to overpay at the end of the
[35:53] day so I I feel a lot of uh I don't know
I'm impressed but I feel a lot of
[35:59] empathy and and at the end of the day, I
just want you to know that I hear you
[36:03] and I feel like some of this is on me. I
have to work with you financially to
[36:06] make it possible for you to do your job
because uh I think they're doing amazing
[36:11] uh with what they've got. So,
>> yeah, I know we have to get to your
[36:15] piece too, but I I would not agree with
that characterization that we disagree
[36:19] on the importance of police and fire. I
think um
[36:25] you council Aller and that's you've made
that accusation twice now once the
[36:29] previous city council meeting
[clears throat] um I think you warned me
[36:34] not to talk about the cost of these
things and I I want to make a huge
[36:37] distinction um I don't think the city of
Ellsworth should not continue to invest
[36:42] in its police fire and infrastructure
1% I feel like as chief mentioned and
[36:50] public works as well is in that category
um are going to need a lot more
[36:53] investment with the amount of growth
that we have in this city moving
[36:57] forward. What is important though is
that we actually talk about it um and we
[37:01] acknowledge the cost um and what it is.
And for when before when I arrived here,
[37:06] I was pretty shocked. You see it in the
2024 audit on a $600,000 cost overrun on
[37:12] the public safety department in FY24.
um and [clears throat] talking to our HR
[37:19] director that there was no budgeting for
overtime um taxes. We were paying it,
[37:23] but we weren't budgeting for it. So, a
lot of the last three years or three
[37:27] budget cycles of my job has been trying
to true cost these pieces. Uh it was a
[37:32] $600,000 increase in the police and fire
departments and dispatched this year. Um
[37:38] you know, by leaps and bounds, our
largest increase. Um and that's without
[37:42] adding additional police officers or
firefighters this year. And the previous
[37:46] year we added two firefighters and uh a
police officer and a dispatcher. The
[37:50] year prior to that we added two
firefighters, we added a police officer
[37:55] as well. Um we did and prior to that
there was a lot of disinvestment in
[38:01] infrastructure, decades of probably
disinvestment because that was the one
[38:05] thing that didn't get pulled. Um so
these things are extremely expensive.
[38:09] has also made big investments in public
works um both in equipment wise, both in
[38:14] roads, both in repairs. Um but I want to
make a very big distinction between
[38:18] talking about the costs of those areas
and what's driving the lion share of the
[38:24] tax increases to the citizens of
Ellsworth. um and the unfairness of
[38:28] state revenue sharing reimbursements
um in taking care of so much public
[38:34] safety infrastructure need for a huge
service center that is for 80,000 people
[38:39] and only has 9,000 taxpayers. Um it's a
very big issue, but I um am very big on
[38:45] the importance of our police, fire, and
public safety teams um and very much
[38:51] appreciate the work they do.
Chris Am I Am I up?
[38:58] » Oh, yeah. [laughter]
Now,
[39:01] » you don't have to You don't have to say
it like that.
[39:05] » All right. Well, I appreciate it. again.
Um, you know, I'm new and, um,
[39:11] so
again, uh, this week, some of these will
[39:15] be a little more qualitative than I'd
like, but, um, and I'll talk about kind
[39:20] of my timeline, but I'd like to be more
and more quantitative, frankly, as as I
[39:25] go. Just a quick update, uh, from last
time. Um, I don't know if you uh had a
[39:31] chance to watch or come up to speed in
terms of any of that, but I just talked
[39:35] about some of my initial observations
and priorities uh from my first week,
[39:39] which was, you know, I've got a I
inherited a laundry list of uh burning
[39:44] platform to-dos for finance just to keep
the plane in the air. That I looked at
[39:49] it again uh this morning when I came in
and uh it's 162 line items long of stuff
[39:55] that needs to be fixed. Um, it is what
it is. It It's fine. It's, you know, not
[40:00] my first rodeo in terms of turnaround.
So, I'm not scared of that. But, um,
[40:05] I'll talk about some of the implications
of that in a second, but there's there's
[40:08] a bunch of stuff just keep from playing
in the air. Then I said, uh, for me to
[40:12] be comfortable and and have just one
night of good sleep, I need to
[40:16] understand what we have as a town from a
financial perspective. Um, and I'll talk
[40:22] about that in a second. Um then I said
uh I we got to get ahead just like we're
[40:27] talking about here in terms of the
infrastructure and what are the what's
[40:30] the financial picture to make this a
more workable sustainable situation. Um
[40:38] we got to get ahead of what we need. So
we can't constantly be reactive. We'll
[40:43] always have to call audles uh because
that's the nature of life. But uh we
[40:47] need to plan forward I think because
otherwise financially it's very
[40:51] difficult to respond. So, understand
what we need. Then I said my next series
[40:56] of things I need to look at is what I
call plug in the bucket. Let's just
[41:00] assume for a second that we had enough
water coming in the bucket. We're
[41:04] spilling a lot of water out of the
bottom, but where is it? And so I'll
[41:08] I'll talk about what I'm doing in terms
of that then unclogging the spigot. And
[41:13] by that I meant that um
if we're not
[41:19] capitalizing like Charlie mentioned for
instance state reimbursements is
[41:23] something that you know maybe we're not
we're not we're not getting great
[41:27] service from the state in terms of
reimbursements whatever but unless we're
[41:31] able to capitalize on on that type of
stuff that's nonpropy tax revenue what I
[41:37] think of as revenue diversification then
the only only lever we have left is
[41:42] property taxes
and I just don't think that that's fair.
[41:46] So, um unclogging the spigot in terms of
revenue diversification was the next
[41:51] one. Then I want to come to you with a
uh some suggestions or some scenarios
[41:56] around what's the plan when you rub all
that stuff together.
[42:00] What can we actually afford? And and
more importantly, what can we say no to
[42:04] um that's not in that plan? And then the
last one I just said was honoring the
[42:08] trust. So, I'll talk about those in a
second. Um to get really tactical just
[42:13] for a second, my number one burning
thing apart from the 162 uh items is uh
[42:20] the bank reconciliation in and that is
the that's ground zero in terms of you
[42:25] know my point around understanding what
we have is bank wreck. Um I was supposed
[42:30] to get it last week. Um I won't go into
all the the gory detail on that but
[42:35] right now I'm supposed to get it on
Wednesday. We have a webinar set up with
[42:41] the consultant that we've been using on
that. So, we'll see on that. Um,
[42:47] meanwhile, between now and then, I'm
also been working uh with our team to do
[42:51] some pre-work so that we're ready to not
only digest it, but then we're going to
[42:56] take it over. And I want to be able for
us to assume the bank reconciliation
[43:01] going forward because keep in mind that
when we get it,
[43:05] this consultant is reconciling
um to end of December end of June uh
[43:14] 2025,
meaning that it's still it's still a
[43:18] year behind and and bank wreck I again
if you have questions I'm happy to
[43:23] answer them, but um you know I've done
all kinds of different typ types of
[43:27] reconciliation for mostly for big
companies and then since I moved to
[43:31] Maine for a bunch of midsize and small
small businesses whatever um everything
[43:36] from you know companies doing financials
and Excel to then a little bigger you
[43:40] know Quickbooks to JD Edwards for Midcap
and then there's SAP and Oracle you know
[43:45] for the big companies um municipal bank
wreck and and forgive me you guys
[43:50] probably know this but it's a it's a
different animal in terms of complexity
[43:54] because it's not just GAP accounting but
you got GAP ASBY you got different
[43:58] acrruel uh models you got government
non-government accounts we got fund
[44:04] accounting of which on the government
side you got five we got two enterprise
[44:07] accounts we got fiduciary uh accounts uh
so those are all considered financially
[44:12] anyway those are obviously
entities um then you got we got
[44:18] different cash accounts even looking at
the bank to understand how many accounts
[44:22] do we have at the bank then you got
investment accounts etc it's a different
[44:26] kettle fish. The problem with that is
the further we get behind the harder it
[44:31] is.
So, I am desperate not only to get it, I
[44:36] mean, Wednesday is a big day uh for us,
but more importantly, how do we take it
[44:42] over and how do we catch up because
otherwise we're we're making it too hard
[44:46] on oursel. Um so, that's the the bank
wreck. um the bank wreck ends up being
[44:50] the critical path item to getting the
audit
[44:55] done and then the audit is the critical
path for me to understand what our uh at
[45:01] least what the auditors say let's say
our undesated uh balance is and that
[45:05] that for me is I'm also again we'll be a
year behind on that so I've also been
[45:10] working with the team to say listen from
that point here's the process we're
[45:15] going to follow to take that let's just
assume that that's right for a second.
[45:20] That's like hard ground we can stand on
and then catch up in terms of that. So
[45:25] that hopefully by the next time I see
you, I want to be able to have a much
[45:30] better idea of really our financial
condition. Um
[45:34] meanwhile, you know, we've had to keep
making the donuts, right? So we got the
[45:38] fiscal year 26 closeout and the cleanup.
Um already the team is starting to have
[45:44] preliminary discussions and thinking
forward in terms of the budget process
[45:48] for the next fiscal year because that
never sleeps. And then like you heard we
[45:52] got e emergency repair projects we have
to fund. We've got basic what I consider
[45:57] almost non-negotiable
uh CIP uh projects where we've
[46:03] whittleled it down to the stuff that's
just mission critical uh to fund and the
[46:08] team is paying bills. We pay about uh I
think you know this but we pay about 900
[46:14] uh invoices a month. Um
[46:19] so with that um I have been also at the
same time behind the scenes uh I took
[46:26] some of those concepts that I laid out
in the first first week uh that I was
[46:29] here and I've put together kind of a
project plan uh which I'd be happy to uh
[46:34] you know we could sit down and walk
through it together if you if you wanted
[46:37] but um the punchline of that plan is uh
I just called it managing the tax
[46:44] burden. So that that's where I want to
get to. In order to get there, however,
[46:49] I got these what I called stabilization
uh items around this what what we have
[46:55] it, you know, etc. There's a whole
process around that and I talked about
[46:58] the bank wreck and assuming it. Um,
but a piece of that is um,
[47:06] and I've had uh, discussions with the
internal team over the past uh, couple
[47:11] weeks on this
[47:14] in order for me to make progress. Um, I
need to free up some of my resources. So
[47:21] I mentioned for instance that uh our
team uh you know I'm now now that I'm
[47:26] here we've got four people in finance
two of whom have been fully occupied in
[47:32] terms of just what I consider data entry
they've been just plugging away entering
[47:39] invoices and by the way if you think
about that just for a second you know
[47:42] that and that's I think um with very
good intentions
[47:47] but number one they're at the back end
of production line. If you ever worked
[47:52] in a manufacturing facility, they're at
the back end of the line. So, if we're
[47:55] trying to do quality control at the
back, by the time the widgets are
[47:59] falling off the back of the line, that's
very late in the process and all the
[48:03] work's gone in it. And by the time by
the time they see it, what do they know
[48:07] about where it came from? Is it right?
Is it not right? Is it a duplicate?
[48:11] Should we ask questions? Do we reserve
it? What what do we do with it? So,
[48:14] that's a very difficult way to do it.
But more importantly, we have, like I
[48:18] just mentioned, we have amazingly
talented and committed people that are
[48:23] running these what I think of as almost
sub businesses underneath the town,
[48:28] but we're hamstringing them a little bit
because we're pulling the visibility and
[48:32] the data and the decision-m and I think
some of you fellas uh I think you're
[48:37] business people as well.
We've taken away the the dashboard from
[48:42] them. So, it's like out of good
intentions, I think we've made it more
[48:47] difficult. And the fact I don't have my
my plane is filling up with smoke. I
[48:51] don't have the firefighters right now.
So, I I need to reallocate. And I've
[48:55] made some uh suggestions and we're
working on a plan where I can move the
[48:59] work around just a little bit and I can
free up the people that I need to help
[49:03] me get ahead of this and fight this fire
because I I inherited 162 items and then
[49:08] we have to keep making the donuts and
and and we have to pull this thing out
[49:11] of the ditch. So that's that's one
thing. Uh fixing the resourcing.
[49:16] Um
the second thing and I I won't get too
[49:20] much into this cuz I you know like so
many things I just know enough to hurt
[49:24] myself right now but um I've been
struggling a bit little bit with our
[49:29] systems environment.
Um
[49:36] we have uh
in finance the front end of the business
[49:44] we use a system called Trio which is a
old uh old old system but but you know
[49:50] it's it's it's known it works. It's not
very pretty but the things hang together
[49:56] and it works. That's what we use in the
front of the system. Then we have a
[50:00] financial system that is called Cassell
and I think we're one of the newest
[50:05] clients at least clients of this size
for that system
[50:10] supposed to be that we take transactions
in over this TRIO system [snorts] then
[50:16] it's supposed to link up to Cassell then
we're be supposed to be able to produce
[50:20] reporting out of the Cassell and by the
way that's what ends up being reconciled
[50:26] to the bank out to the world the real
world and That's what is getting audited
[50:30] on. That linkage is not very good right
now to say the least.
[50:35] And so for me to get any data out of it
so I can create information and I can
[50:40] come back to you with some insight and
say hey listen
[50:45] here's where where we stand on stuff.
We're having to to manually do that
[50:50] outside the system. So we lean on it to
produce Excel reports and that that
[50:54] whole bit whatever
which is fraught and there's a lot of
[51:00] human touch on that and whatever and I
always feel you know right now in my
[51:05] brief time I you know I I have to figure
that out and meanwhile
[51:10] what ends up being audited is it the
Excel? No. Is it TRIO? No.
[51:16] It's this Cassell thing that we're not
really using all that well. So, I need
[51:22] to figure this systems thing out as well
because that that's just the reality of
[51:27] what it is. Um, so I got resourcing. I
got systems to figure out. I'm trying to
[51:33] resort the work around. We're trying uh
the work. I'm trying to balance the
[51:38] making the donuts and then, you know,
trying to give you guys a straight
[51:41] picture in terms of here's where we sit
and then we can put our heads together
[51:45] in terms of recommendations. That's the
stabilization piece. um this cost
[51:50] optimization piece in terms of plug in
the bucket. I have um
[51:57] I decided that I need to get on my
office sooner around later and uh talk
[52:01] to people and of course you guys are
high on my priority list. Uh so I'll
[52:07] look to to spend some time with you and
get on your calendar. But to start with,
[52:12] I'm starting with
our folks, department heads. [snorts]
[52:18] Um, and what I did is I
uh listed all the key department heads
[52:26] for the city and all I did was I
prioritized I stack ranked them based
[52:29] upon budget spend. I can't remember the
uh there's that that historical joke
[52:36] where I can't remember the bank robber
they were asking you know why why do you
[52:39] actually rob banks and he said well
that's where the money is. Um so I
[52:45] thought I'd start with where the spend
actually is and go in order of that. And
[52:50] so I don't know what this is but there's
a dozen folks here on this list
[52:54] something like that. Um that represents
82%
[52:58] of the spend for the city. So I'm going
to start there.
[53:02] And then I got a bunch of other folks
and I have some external folks and of
[53:05] course uh I have you you folks on that
but I thought before I sat down with you
[53:10] I'd like to have something substantive
uh and and at least ground myself get in
[53:15] the pool a little bit and understand
that. So um and I've I've had some
[53:20] initial discussions and it's been it's
been amazing. um you know we talk about
[53:25] uh the um uh you know the the strategic
value what they do but then you know
[53:32] there's this cost element I would say
even on the cost side of the equation uh
[53:37] the time that I spent with these guys um
no one is more aware and worried and
[53:44] cognizant of what it cost to do than
than them every single discussion that
[53:50] we have these guys stand up and say
Yeah, but you know, let's talk about the
[53:55] cost element or whatever. So, I feel
like
[54:00] the the the spirit is exactly right.
They just need they just need help from
[54:04] me and and my people uh to be able to do
it. So, um but in in those initial
[54:10] discussions, I we've already highlighted
some opportunities on the cost side that
[54:15] could make a huge
difference at the end of the day. So
[54:19] with all these, if I'm talking to people
that represent 82% of the spend, I'd
[54:23] like to be able to summarize that and
come back to you and say, "Hey, listen.
[54:26] Here's the inventory
of where the where the water's flowing
[54:31] out of the bucket." And we can and we
can't do everything all at once. And
[54:34] sometimes to fix them, as you guys know,
there's a little bit of upfront expense
[54:37] to make that happen, too.
But unless we want to keep playing, you
[54:41] know, whack-a-ole year after year after
year, um, here would be the plan and
[54:46] then we can prioritize and and here's
what it would mean. And I'm, by the way,
[54:50] I'm characterizing those cost savings.
Uh, some of them have are run rate
[54:57] savings, as you know. So, uh, recurring
budget expenses that we can take out.
[55:03] So, we'll we'll we could save that year
over year. Others are one-time
[55:08] cash benefit types of things, but that's
real money, too. And I think to council
[55:13] Howard's point, you know, if we can get
smart about those things, then maybe we
[55:17] actually maybe we don't even need to
finance some of that stuff at all. We
[55:22] can actually squeeze the lemon and we
actually have that financing uh within
[55:25] the town. So, that's one of the the
pieces that I'm I'm capturing um from
[55:30] those things. So, that cost observation
piece already is underway. And I'm
[55:34] again, I just wanted to
um I'll get to everybody, but I'm
[55:39] starting with uh like the bank robber
said, I'm starting with where the money
[55:42] is first. Um then there's uh this
revenue unclogging this spigot thing. Um
[55:49] so I'm talking about things like you
tiffs, uh state reimbursements for sure.
[55:54] I talked about this monetizing the
growth piece. um other types of uh um
[56:02] things taking advantage of sort of the
tourist traffic etc etc and then I I
[56:07] mentioned even uh grants which I have um
uh in my uh experience some mixed
[56:13] feelings about although
to the extent that we can identify
[56:18] grants that have a property tax offset
benefit to them. So there these are
[56:26] needs and projects that have been
captured in the expense budget now and I
[56:32] can find alternative sources for funding
for them then I'm much more in support
[56:36] of those naturally as opposed to grants
that are inventing their own incremental
[56:42] thing or work. Um and then I rub all
that together and then you know managing
[56:46] the tax burden. So now it's you know
what can we actually afford from that
[56:50] and what tough decisions are we going to
make? How are we going to prioritize it?
[56:54] I would like to report have a report out
at least in terms of my findings and I'd
[56:59] like to be a little bit more qualitative
if I can by the next finance committee
[57:03] meeting.
Um it forces me um you know we'll see
[57:08] because I'm struggling mightily with the
data
[57:12] but I but on the other hand I'm not sure
that gets better if you give me another
[57:16] 3 months to you know float around and uh
you know stare at my navl basically. So,
[57:23] putting a hard uh uh report out on the
calendar of Monday, September 14th,
[57:29] which is the next finance committee
meeting. I like to be able to if you
[57:32] think all this is like, you know, I'm a
fresh set of eyes and I've done a little
[57:36] bit of discovery,
talk to the folks, you know, who are on
[57:41] the ground, talked to people externally,
you know, met with you guys, um, and
[57:46] then rub that together and say, "Hey,
listen, you know, because I've done
[57:49] turnaround for a living, here's my, uh,
my take on it." Uh,
[57:55] I, you know, if you guys are comfortable
with that, that's that's what I'd like
[57:58] to do. Um, I'd also like to open up the
door for listening dialogue with the
[58:05] public.
Um
[58:09] cuz I know that you know people uh it's
one thing what the numbers say but you
[58:14] know for me uh I I won't go through my
whole thing from from uh the first first
[58:19] meeting but um I I know firsthand
um
[58:25] what it means to to struggle and to
worry about you know how you're going to
[58:29] make the next whatever pay pay bills.
Um, so I'd like to open that that up and
[58:35] I mean this in a sincere way uh that I I
would love to hear and hear from people
[58:42] and and spend time with people in terms
of what their experience is, what are
[58:46] they concerned about, what questions do
they have, what are their priorities.
[58:51] Um, I think we publish my email uh on
the website in a couple different
[58:57] places, but uh my email is c
neithsworthmain.gov.
[59:01] gov. So, you can send me an email. I
also would uh would like to have office
[59:07] hours. I don't know if maybe my
predecessors did that. I don't know. Uh
[59:12] but um I'm going to try uh blocking uh
Thursday mornings
[59:19] from 8 to 10 in my office. Uh I'll make
you a cup of coffee. We can sit down.
[59:24] We'll close the door and um and and and
and we can uh we can chat. I would
[59:29] welcome that. And then also uh you know
if you you fellas have ideas about other
[59:34] ways that would make sense um I was even
thinking maybe I could host some kind of
[59:39] quarterly thing where people could come
together we could have kind of a public
[59:42] dialogue and uh and they could ask
questions and I I give him my best shake
[59:48] in terms of here's my understanding of
where we are uh for that I think that'd
[59:52] be good.
Um, and if there are other ideas about
[59:56] that, how to have kind of a real
conversation and and whatever. I I don't
[1:00:01] have
a lot of answers. I don't have all the
[1:00:04] answers for sure right now, but I can I
can certainly listen and uh and
[1:00:10] prioritize that. Uh, that's that's a big
priority for me.
[1:00:14] Um,
>> to me, it sounds like you're working
[1:00:18] hard to get a handle on it. It takes a
while when you get into it.
[1:00:23] when you take over somebody else's
position, you know, you come in and you
[1:00:29] you got to figure out, oh, okay, this is
this and
[1:00:35] [clears throat] one of the concerns
you've identified to me is and I was
[1:00:39] where I TRIO has been around for a lot
of municipalities
[1:00:45] for a long long time and a lot of
clerks,
[1:00:50] a lot of city managers
you know, treasures, they they don't
[1:00:56] it's same same with anybody. Uh well, we
never used to do it this way. They don't
[1:01:02] they when they make that comment, they
they they don't want to change.
[1:01:06] » Mhm.
>> They're worried about the dark side. And
[1:01:09] it's not the dark side. There's always a
better way to do something.
[1:01:14] Unfortunately,
[clears throat]
[1:01:17] with my experience working in state
government, they've changed a lot of
[1:01:21] programs and without
[1:01:27] with doing tests to see if this program
will now transfer to this program and
[1:01:33] work with this and
next thing you know it's like
[1:01:38] it still won't
tell what it just implemented. You know
[1:01:42] what I mean? And then
you still got the problem. You see I
[1:01:47] mean Main Revenue Services did that and
and they spent
[1:01:51] » uh two years trying to get their program
to work with the new program and it
[1:02:00] didn't [clears throat]
>> and the
[1:02:05] the estate assessor said let's just go
with it
[1:02:11] now. I think by now they've corrected
that problem cuz that was back in the
[1:02:16] '9s. So you figure, well, maybe it's
straightened out.
[1:02:21] But [clears throat]
>> yeah, we'll we'll see. I think the
[1:02:24] systems integration piece is a is a
pretty big one. I know um
[1:02:28] » you know, bad data in, bad data out, and
I think I've
[1:02:32] » um you know, following along for that,
too. We made a lot of progress. An
[1:02:38] initial narrative of this was coming in.
And you know you Stephen you were here
[1:02:42] you weren't here Pat when there like
they did a software transfer in the
[1:02:46] middle of a budget season between Munis
and Cassell they didn't actually fully
[1:02:50] implement that change uh there was
massive amount of turnover in the
[1:02:54] organization in the finance department
>> and in the city manager's office at the
[1:02:58] time I kind of took over that project
management for six weeks brought the
[1:03:02] entirety of pretty much the management
core into the auditorium for six
[1:03:05] straight weeks on arrival and did the
systems in integration to the extent
[1:03:09] possible got a budget book together. We
had no prior year actuals for anything
[1:03:13] at that point. They were all just
budgeted because there really wasn't any
[1:03:16] actuals. Um and I think one of my
mistakes too was okay well the budget
[1:03:21] systems are better. There's the report
outs. We started returning to the
[1:03:24] monthly reports from the Cassell
integration. That was great in some
[1:03:27] ways. Um but it wasn't until uh we had
another finance director leave and then
[1:03:32] I started redoing the budget this year
where I was looking line by line by line
[1:03:35] by line and noticing on how Cassell kind
of includes the revenues in this um in
[1:03:42] the expenses area and was sort of hiding
some of the expense overruns that I
[1:03:46] started seeing in the earlier year that
wasn't readily apparent on those you
[1:03:50] know monthly report outs. So you have
you kind of trust a monthly report out,
[1:03:54] you see a different story. You know,
we've this budget cycle too. We didn't
[1:03:58] we didn't backfill two employees, so
we're net negative on the general
[1:04:01] government side. Um two full-time
employees. Uh and we said no to
[1:04:07] absolutely everything this budget
season. We're negative 10% on the
[1:04:11] request from the nonprofits. And we're
going to I know Chris, you're kind of
[1:04:16] analyzing some of our systems for
further cost savings on what we should
[1:04:19] stop moving forward with. Um, this is
the northstar that bank recon, the
[1:04:24] budget, the cassell, the blocking and
tackling piece. And we are going to be
[1:04:27] in an orientation of infrastructure,
public safety, and keeping the lights
[1:04:32] on. Um, from my perspective, in the same
vein as last budget cycle until that
[1:04:38] piece um is solved. And you know, I just
say one more thing. I think this for me,
[1:04:45] you know, this is I know we've made some
progress, not nearly as much as I would
[1:04:49] have hoped. put this in the vein of like
last year [music] taxes went tax bills
[1:04:53] went out again not on time for you know
the seventh year in a row here and it
[1:04:58] had been two cycles where that had
happened under my watch and we made a
[1:05:02] huge effort thank you to the deputy city
manager the assessor and others who were
[1:05:06] part of that turnaround and I'm our
consultant who we brought on in that and
[1:05:09] we sent tax bills out for the first time
and some people's like they don't have a
[1:05:12] memory of it not going out so for me we
gota um it can't just be more promises
[1:05:17] and hearing the same thing at these
finance committee we actually have to
[1:05:20] solve the problem and put timelines on
when we're going to solve it by.
[1:05:24] » Yeah. The two two quick things I I would
just offer there. Um, you know, my
[1:05:32] uh
again, uh, so a lot of my professional
[1:05:37] life, you know, I've done, um, kind of
real distressed turnaround stuff and,
[1:05:41] um,
I just find it's not
[1:05:45] useful or I'm not trying to make
excuses.
[1:05:49] Um, and also I'm not trying to like
blame either because uh
[1:05:54] I think blame is often very simplistic
and uh and it's not productive. I the
[1:05:59] way I look at Ellsworth
is uh we're like a small boat almost
[1:06:04] like an inflatable in the middle of the
big ocean and Ellsworth is special and
[1:06:09] you know human terms but it's very it's
not special from a economic perspective
[1:06:14] and from a fin. So we're not immune to a
lot of the forces that are happening in
[1:06:19] the state that then are manifesting here
in terms of some of the challenges we're
[1:06:24] having. Not immune in terms of some of
the federal stuff and you know
[1:06:28] inflationary pressure and and different
things or whatever. Um so we're in this
[1:06:33] little inflatable thing and we're
together and increasingly this to at
[1:06:38] least to date the state hasn't really
been coming to our aid all that much or
[1:06:41] whatever. So, it's up to us. And so, for
me to, you know, cast blame or or throw
[1:06:47] spears, let's say, at the people in the
boat trying to bail the boat,
[1:06:52] I feel like, you know, if that's the
best I got,
[1:06:54] » then, you know, come on. Um,
>> it
[1:06:58] » but but it but to be able to at least
let people know as a start, here's what
[1:07:04] we're up against. because I feel like
when when people are grown-ups, you can
[1:07:08] take good news, you can take bad news,
but they need to know what the score is
[1:07:13] so we we even know what problems that we
got to solve. So, I'm just letting you
[1:07:17] know that's what I think we're up
against and it's what I'm up against.
[1:07:22] But with that said, I still want to be
able to report out something real uh
[1:07:25] September 14th, just so you know. So,
and I think I know we're
[1:07:31] just looking forward to I think your
boat analogy is I I feel like we're in
[1:07:35] with those like those little hand pumps
and there's just more coming in.
[1:07:40] » Um, I'm worried
>> that's going to happen. You know, it's
[1:07:44] going to be there's going to be times
that, you know, Mike Mike will will be
[1:07:48] pulling his hair out because the water
man up on Oak Street breaking and then
[1:07:53] this one down Water Street and then up
to Elder Falls and all of a sudden the
[1:07:59] sewage treatment plant pops a cookie.
You know, these things are all
[1:08:04] unforeseen. I I I do
I'm not going to cast any blame. I think
[1:08:12] that
We need to do something about an aging
[1:08:15] program like TRIO
because I don't think that's going to be
[1:08:22] longer for everybody else. And we were
proactive and f trying to find a program
[1:08:27] that's going to work. It It's like, you
know, running a running certain programs
[1:08:33] on your computer. It's like, oh,
Windows 10 is no longer supported.
[1:08:39] » Yeah. and and this doesn't talk to this.
So there you are, you know, you've
[1:08:45] you've had Windows 9 and you've up
Windows 8 and you've upgraded 10 and now
[1:08:49] oh we're going to 13.
You see I mean you're going to have that
[1:08:55] you have that in the trucks and
equipment too because they're all coming
[1:09:00] out as computerized. You see I mean so
if man makes it it's going to be wonky.
[1:09:06] » Mhm. one minute you think you're doing a
great job and next thing you know it's
[1:09:10] like
but to to your point you they're being
[1:09:16] proactive to try to point out things and
and and that's what we need to do. I
[1:09:22] still be I'm still going to be on the
deal that we need to put the brakes on a
[1:09:27] lot of stuff a lot of new stuff. It's
just like whoa we need to get things
[1:09:32] taken care of. We need to take care of
the things that
[1:09:37] councils 20 years ago should have took
care of.
[1:09:41] » Okay. I've been touting that for years
and years and years and finally it's
[1:09:46] like, you know, everybody encouraged me,
you you need to run for city council.
[1:09:51] Well, I'm really didn't want to run. I'm
more interested in walking.
[1:09:56] So, that's how I did. You know what I
mean? When we're gonna get a handle on
[1:10:01] this stuff,
light right at the end of the tunnel is
[1:10:05] there.
Not like looking through the catch b
[1:10:10] looking through the cross culvert and
not seeing any daylight. There is some
[1:10:14] daylight there and it's going to get
there, but we need to [snorts]
[1:10:19] put the binders on.
I picked across to a couple of like the
[1:10:25] last warrant and it's like, hey, this
should have been put here, not here.
[1:10:29] Well, I
it's too late now. It's already been
[1:10:35] put, but
it might not be too late. You assuming
[1:10:40] cell phone stipens should be picked up
by all the departments that those
[1:10:46] employees that are required to have a
phone.
[1:10:50] You see what I mean?
And you got to identify
[1:10:55] [clears throat]
does it there such thing as want and
[1:10:59] need. You know what I mean? Do I know we
want we want we want. What do we really
[1:11:07] need?
If I could weigh in just a moment.
[1:11:13] I got here five years ago
and there was five people in the defi in
[1:11:18] the finance department
and slowly that got weaned down
[1:11:24] » and over the five years that I have been
here for almost 5 years
[1:11:30] [clears throat] I think you walked into
the best situation that it's been in
[1:11:34] five years not because of me by any
means but
[1:11:41] I think we had a garden in Ellsworth
that was all weeds and no vegetables.
[1:11:47] And I think you're walking into a spot
where
[1:11:52] there is now some vegetables among the
weeds and it's always an improvement. I
[1:11:59] was here um about two months when the
brand new finance director gave us
[1:12:05] notice and I had asked at that point if
we could outsource with a accounting
[1:12:12] firm to come in here whether it was
200,000 250,000 and get things set up
[1:12:18] for the next finance director and I
couldn't get support for that and it's
[1:12:23] been continually
um a a revolving door. However,
[1:12:28] in the last
[1:12:33] in the last two years,
it has been the best that it has been in
[1:12:41] at least five. And I believe
in my heart that Ellsworth's financial
[1:12:48] problem dates back way before anybody
was willing to admit to it. I'm not
[1:12:56] saying anybody has done anything wrong,
but I think people have got bogged down
[1:13:02] with the day-to-day invoices and it's
been hard. It's it's been redundance of
[1:13:08] work, not management of work. And there
were five here.
[1:13:14] And these people have, especially the
last gentleman that had your position,
[1:13:21] has really printed uh a lot of
information that we never had on a
[1:13:27] finance situation. We had actuals to
budget. We had year-to- date. Um, and
[1:13:36] when I first got here 5 years ago, it
was on a white table and a stack of
[1:13:42] invoices. You look through and that was
it. There was no information.
[1:13:47] » And in the last 5 years, it has evolved
into,
[1:13:51] um, YouTube coverage, um, audio, video
of this meeting. Um, and there has been
[1:13:58] a heck of a lot of progress that has
been made. However,
[1:14:03] weeds don't die easy. And when you have
a field of weeds,
[1:14:08] it's hard and it takes time to fix the
weeds into a vegetable garden. And I
[1:14:17] only use that analogy because I noticed
that you have used a lot of analogies
[1:14:22] which I enjoy. And
[1:14:27] what you're inheriting today is far
better than any finance director has
[1:14:34] inherited in the last 5 years. I know it
looks terribly bad, but at least you
[1:14:39] have some reports because when I first
got here, there were no reports.
[1:14:45] Absolutely none. You wouldn't have been
able to see what you've seen
[1:14:50] if it wouldn't been continuous
improvement. Now, maybe the energy
[1:14:56] hasn't always been in the right spot.
Maybe there's been some poor decisions,
[1:15:01] but I I just want to say that certainly
it's wonderful to hear your perspective.
[1:15:08] But what you can see, you wouldn't have
seen three years ago. I promise you. I
[1:15:14] think Ashley could uh admit to that what
you can see
[1:15:19] you would not have seen three years ago.
Nor
[1:15:25] would you have anything to work with.
And as as light as it may be um and as
[1:15:33] basic as it may be, it has improved and
it sounds like you're going to make sure
[1:15:38] that it improves greatly.
We the other thing too is I believe
[1:15:48] that
we all want the same things and we all
[1:15:54] see different priorities. Um but if we
don't know our finances, we don't know
[1:16:01] who we are.
Um, and
[1:16:06] people can lie about numbers,
but numbers can't lie.
[1:16:12] And
I think this has been very informative
[1:16:17] and very real
and thank you.
[1:16:22] » I I appreciate that perspective and and
that wisdom for sure. And uh I will take
[1:16:29] that to heart cuz I you know I um I I
certainly have a lot of turnaround
[1:16:33] experience but I have no experience with
Ellsworth. And uh
[1:16:38] but I I I do uh one thing that resonated
so much is that despite the spirited
[1:16:44] dialogue and I've only had I didn't have
I haven't had a lot of time right to
[1:16:48] watch too much but I know there's kind
of healthy dialogue in in the town. um
[1:16:54] what what counselor just said in terms
of it it's so clear that people love
[1:16:59] this place and it it all comes from that
like people's concern genuine concern
[1:17:06] about it and uh and I I also I just I
guess I want you to know that I I don't
[1:17:12] take that trust lightly. I don't know if
I'm the guy. Uh I don't I don't know if
[1:17:16] I can fix it. I think sometimes in this
country, you know, we're looking for
[1:17:21] heroes or we're looking for villains.
And I want to say I'm neither. But I
[1:17:25] think I'm an opportunity
for all of us to uh let's work together
[1:17:30] with a a the kind of constructive spirit
where we address real problems uh in a
[1:17:37] factual way and and head on because I
think we're we have everything we need
[1:17:42] in our boat uh to save it, but we got to
work together. So
[1:17:46] » yeah, I'd say that. Thank you very much,
Steve. I think that's incredibly
[1:17:50] accurate reflection of the progress the
fin I think we can get bogged down
[1:17:54] because as you noted in those 175 items
like I put a lot of those together on
[1:17:58] that dare to fix finances project
management list and I think coming back
[1:18:03] into the finance director role very
briefly as we were trying to hire you.
[1:18:07] It was just concerning on how much we
still had to do and but also to your
[1:18:10] point, Steve, which I think is important
on just having the data, the
[1:18:14] transparency piece. You know, it hasn't
always been easy when I we started
[1:18:18] publishing these pieces and draft
budgets online um with prior actuals,
[1:18:23] final budgets. We've had some actually
some great feedback from citizens,
[1:18:26] including last week about an alewife
thing, which we'll look into, and I love
[1:18:30] those pieces. But to Steve, to your
point on kind of the resource deployment
[1:18:34] and the structure itself on all the
invoices and all the work that's being
[1:18:39] done here and um getting to that higher
level of our team that's got a lot of
[1:18:45] experience now, you know, three years
tenure, which is first in the city and
[1:18:48] it's really all due to Ashley and Deb
and Leia. The backbone, Chris coming in
[1:18:52] is going to be a new piece, but then how
do we create a system for them to truly
[1:18:56] succeed to get at that that hole in the
boat? We can't just keep bailing out and
[1:19:01] expect that the water's not going to
keep coming in on this piece. It's the I
[1:19:05] know it's my northstar. The resources I
know Steve on, you know, the accounting
[1:19:09] stuff we've talked about in the in the
previous I I would say they said city
[1:19:13] did they didn't really tell anybody
about it. They did hire the same
[1:19:17] auditing firm that was doing the or the
reconcil to do reconciliations at great
[1:19:21] costs like a quarter million dollars
without really even telling anybody.
[1:19:24] They when I was arrived we were spending
tens of thousand dollars a week in
[1:19:28] warrants on that. Um, we tried to bring
it in house. We tried to make it much
[1:19:32] more cost- effective. It hasn't gotten
us back to the fully recon system. So,
[1:19:36] you know, I know Chris is already
looking and working with the team on how
[1:19:39] do we how do we get back up to speed and
then how do we resource it moving
[1:19:43] forward so we can handle this. Um, but
have every confidence we're going to do
[1:19:46] so.
[1:19:51] » Great. I think we only put one or two
people to sleep in the audience today.
[1:19:54] » Yeah,
>> it's one of my one of my gifts.
[1:19:57] [laughter]
Thank you.
[1:20:00] » All I can say is everybody needs to keep
up the good work. I mean, there's light
[1:20:04] at the end of the tunnel. I'm I'm I'm
new. I I come on this what my first full
[1:20:10] year going on being on the finance
committee and being a counselor and it's
[1:20:16] like, yeah, you can do this. It's going
to be tough. No one said it wasn't going
[1:20:21] to be easy, but you got to love a
challenge.
[1:20:26] » Thank you. Okay, I got to go pay my