[0:10] Uh Chris, anytime you'd like to start
the meeting, you can call that to order.
[0:21] Is he on you?
>> Yes. He's muted.
[0:24] » This CHIO's
[0:28] » I'm muted.
>> My fault. I'm sorry, Ms. Chicot.
[0:33] All right. I'd like to call the Erie
County Board of Elections special
[0:36] meeting on July 30th to order.
Uh can you call roll call, please, Ms.
[0:42] Chicot?
>> Mr. Bal.
[0:44] » Here.
>> Mr. Copeland.
[0:49] Mr. Drexel.
>> Here. Sorry.
[0:54] I'm here.
>> Uh Ms. Sharman. Here.
[0:59] Mr. Scutella.
>> Here.
[1:02] » Mr. Wertz.
>> Here.
[1:05] » Mr. Winarski.
>> Here.
[1:09] » All right. Uh
is there anybody
[1:13] uh who would like to speak I don't see
anybody, right? Is anybody
[1:16] like to speak for the public? Anyone
from the public? Is anyone from the
[1:19] public?
[1:22] Seeing none. All right.
Uh this is new business, possible
[1:26] authorization of county funds to pay
return postage on in absentee ballots.
[1:34] Ms. Chicot.
[1:37] » Well, it's that time of year where our
vendor is preparing the envelopes for
[1:41] the mail ballots, and in order to do
that, they need to know if we are going
[1:46] to be paying as a county the return
postage for those ballots to be returned
[1:50] to the county.
Uh we pay for the postage going out, uh
[1:55] and that's covered by the election
integrity grant, but in order for us to
[1:59] have that paid for by the voters, we
bring that to a vote before the Board of
[2:03] Elections. So, we're at that time and
the vendor is ready to start printing
[2:07] for the envelopes.
[2:12] » Mr. Chair, if
>> All right.
[2:15] » Um
Ms. Chilcott, it it it's true that um
[2:19] this postage that we've paid for the
return trip, we have end-to-end tracking
[2:24] on
when that voter put that in the mailbox
[2:28] to getting to us, delivery confirmation.
>> Yes.
[2:33] » And and not paying for postage would uh
not allow us to provide that end-to-end
[2:38] tracking. You know, I'm thinking of 2024
when we had so many issues with uh
[2:43] obviously different issue with the mail
vendor
[2:48] but, you know, if we might anticipate
some issues uh with things being lost in
[2:53] the mail, etc., etc., that in order to
have any kind of intelligence to
[2:57] understand if the ballots are coming
back to us in a timely manner, we would
[3:01] have to pay for that postage, correct?
>> I don't know that there would be a
[3:05] difference. I know that the previous
vendor did not
[3:09] um
provide the tracking information, and
[3:12] that was a problem. And also, some of
those ballots did not have barcodes as
[3:15] they were expected to have. The new
vendor has been compliant with all of
[3:19] that, and the tracking system is very
efficient. Uh this is
[3:24] this is just a a question that we
normally bring. I don't know that there
[3:27] would be a difference in the service.
>> I'm just saying that if we if we're not
[3:31] providing that return postage, we
wouldn't have that tracking to know when
[3:36] when that mail was received by the post
office and and a delivery confirmation
[3:40] from USPS.
[3:44] » W- Why does the postage affect How does
postage affect that?
[3:48] I mean, whether a person puts a stamp on
it or the stamp is provided on cuz that
[3:53] cuz that change anything?
>> It shouldn't it I don't know I don't see
[3:56] that that would change any of the
service because it's still using the
[3:59] same barcode information. It's still
uh trackable as long as it's in the USPS
[4:06] system.
Uh well
[4:08] » I guess that's the thing is without if
you were not that customer paying for
[4:14] tracking
uh of an item. When you ship things with
[4:17] a simple postage stamp
it doesn't come complete with any kind
[4:21] of tracking that you can go online.
>> It does if it has a barcode on the
[4:26] envelope.
>> Okay.
[4:28] » So the previous vendor was not providing
um some of the barcodes on some of the
[4:33] batches and they were not tracking the
ballots.
[4:36] And uh
in order to track those ballots we had
[4:39] USPS create addresses as images and went
through an entire system through the
[4:45] United States to track ballots because
it's using a barcode technology not the
[4:50] stamp itself that's being tracked. It's
the barcode on the envelope. So people
[4:55] if you if we would approve the postage
to be paid
[4:59] voters can certainly elect to put a
stamp on that as well. And that's one
[5:04] less one that the county would be paying
for. But conversely if voters uh if we
[5:11] don't pay for it and voters don't put
postage on it it's still official
[5:15] election mail and it'd still be returned
to us and we would have to pay for their
[5:19] postage either way. So
uh this is something that that makes it
[5:24] easier people don't have to think about
if you look at it that way but at the
[5:27] same time we still we have the same
options. The county would still be
[5:31] responsible if someone fails to put
postage on it. Uh we would be paying
[5:35] that or voters can put their stamp on it
and save the county money.
[5:40] » I I appreciate I wasn't sure how that
process worked on the tracking. So thank
[5:43] you.
[5:46] » Just out of curiosity what it cost the
last few years with this?
[5:52] » Uh I don't have it in front of me, but I
think it's varied around 11,000, 15,000,
[5:57] maybe
uh 16 or 17,000.
[6:01] Depending on the election.
[6:07] » And this can't use integrity grant
funds?
[6:10] » No.
>> Okay.
[6:14] » Just uh from from my perspective,
uh we've been doing this for some time.
[6:19] Uh I don't like to introduce changes.
The original reasoning for
[6:25] wanting to provide postage still stands
that I don't want to create barriers to
[6:29] people returning their ballot.
Uh I've likened it to
[6:33] uh
a poll tax, and I know a stamp doesn't
[6:36] cost that much, but it still requires
the effort. I don't have a single stamp
[6:39] in my house. I'd have to go out to the
post office, go out and purchase a
[6:43] stamp, uh
and in some ways that's more
[6:47] laborous than even going just to the
polling place on election day. Um I
[6:51] think it's a small cost and and a
um a convenience to the electorate,
[6:56] helps expand access to the ballot, and I
think that we should continue doing it.
[7:01] But also,
I'd like to get away from continuing to
[7:06] approve this election by election,
uh cuz I I don't think it would be a
[7:10] good idea for us to shift uh back and
forth uh year to year, uh and I would
[7:16] suggest that if we approve this that
it's a motion to approve as official
[7:22] policy of the election office.
[7:30] » Mr. Chairman.
>> Yes, sir.
[7:34] » I agree that it's a a small cost, but I
just
[7:38] you know, think that like with a lot of
things in life that you know, everybody
[7:41] should have skin in the game. I mean, is
it impede me from getting to the the
[7:47] polls that I have to put gas in my car,
pay for the insurance, the registration,
[7:51] or anybody else that goes? I mean,
there's costs that are incurred just to
[7:55] get that. And to me, the
the small
[7:59] as said by Councilman Coke, on the small
cost of a stamp, I just I think that
[8:04] we've gone out of our way. We've made
elections more than accessible. I think
[8:10] that, you know,
people have the ability to come in here,
[8:14] vote in person. If they don't want to
take care of that, there's ample ways to
[8:18] get in here. I just I think it's one
more cost that we're passing on to the
[8:23] taxpayers that not everybody is going to
Other people are going to have to incur
[8:28] costs in order to go vote.
Or we're going to force everybody to
[8:32] say, "I'm not going to go to the polls
because I'm just going to mail it in
[8:36] with the free stamp from the county."
So,
[8:40] just my point of view.
[8:44] » [clears throat]
>> Thank you.
[8:45] » Yep.
>> Mr. Chair?
[8:49] » Yes.
>> I still go back to my original way of
[8:53] thinking. When we first started with the
mail-in ballots, we did not pay postage
[8:57] on them, and we just started to within
the last few years.
[9:02] And it's almost
[9:06] we're giving something to some people
and nothing to other people. We don't
[9:11] give people money for their gas
or
[9:15] an exact amount for their getting up,
going out, and going to the polls and
[9:21] vote, but yet we're giving something to
somebody
[9:25] that it only requires a stamp. So, I
voted the same way the last several
[9:31] years, and I'll vote the same way today.
[9:35] » Thank you.
Anyone else?
[9:39] » Mr. Chair, if I can.
We we
[9:43] » Yes.
>> we personally
[9:45] sit and adjudicate uh
defective ballots for missing
[9:51] signatures, for bad dates, for highly
unusual arrangements of
[9:57] privacy envelope not in there, in there
but signed and we we've seen any manner
[10:03] of
ballots being returned to us. Um and
[10:09] And I I really think you have a scenario
where people might not even realize that
[10:15] the policy has changed and still thought
that return postage was paid and just
[10:19] dropped these things in mailboxes. I
mean, the number one thing that we can
[10:23] do to establish a voter
um
[10:28] uh
[10:31] voter opinion that our elections are
safe and secure is that they're also
[10:35] stable.
And and aren't radically changing from
[10:39] year to year, that people are very
familiar with the processes. It's been,
[10:43] I believe, 3 years that we've had this
in place.
[10:46] Uh and I just don't think it's a good
idea to just shift radically and decide
[10:52] based off of whatever makeup is on the
Board of Elections on the given year
[10:56] determines
our processes. That
[11:00] I understand that there's a partisan
tinge to some of this conversation.
[11:04] Uh but I mean, just for the sake of
stability in our elections that we
[11:09] should try to adhere to the same
processes.
[11:14] » Mr. Chairman
>> Mr. Copeland.
[11:17] Yes.
[11:20] » On what Mr.
Copeland is saying, I totally agree with
[11:24] him.
Standard way
[11:28] without confusing
the voter out there every time we have
[11:32] an election.
>> Mr. Chairman,
[11:35] uh in response to that, I would like to
make a suggestion that we vote on this
[11:39] today so that we can let the vendor know
to proceed with postage paid or not.
[11:44] Um and we could draft a resolution for
the next Board of Elections meeting so
[11:48] this could be prepared in a policy
format and let the board vote
[11:54] um
to uh renew that as a policy or not. But
[11:58] let's do a standalone vote today and
have a resolution prepared so that we
[12:02] can adopt that as a formal resolution or
not at the next meeting.
[12:08] » Mr. Chucar, uh you took the words right
out of my mouth. I feel strongly with
[12:13] Mr. Copeland on the consistency level
here. I'm definitely not in favor of
[12:17] changing anything in the middle of an
election year. We just had a primary, we
[12:22] did it one way, we're going into the
general, it should be consistent.
[12:27] Um I would also appreciate you
um putting together
[12:32] um
you know, so that we can have this be
[12:34] policy and the next Board of Elections
we can vote on that so we don't have to
[12:40] continue to keep coming back and and
voting on this. Like the
[12:46] the integrity of the election
is greatly affected by the consistency.
[12:51] We don't want to be changing rules on
people. So
[12:54] and that's that's sort of how I feel
about this.
[12:58] We could put that
this question to a vote now for the
[13:02] postage
uh to be approved for this general
[13:06] election for the vendor. If nobody else
has any
[13:10] anything to
add to the conversation.
[13:17] » Yeah. Mr. Chairman, I guess I'll just
I'm confused in how
[13:21] the stamp
keeps the integrity of our elections,
[13:25] especially when we're talking about a
ballot that's filled out
[13:29] in a person's residence with
no witness, no anything. So, we're
[13:35] relying on a person's personal
integrity. So, I failed to draw the the
[13:39] con-
the line between the the stamp and and
[13:43] having integrity in a a mail-in ballot.
That's all.
[13:47] » Well, it I I can appreciate that point,
but consistency definitely does
[13:53] matter here. And we're in the middle of
you know, an election year. We're not
[14:00] I mean, unless we vote otherwise, I
don't think we should be changing that.
[14:06] » Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion to
approve.
[14:10] » Second.
[14:14] » Call for the question, Mr. Chilcott.
[14:18] » Mr. Copeland.
>> Yes.
[14:21] » Mr. Drexel.
>> Yes.
[14:24] » Mr. Sherman.
>> No.
[14:26] » Mr. Scutella.
>> Yes.
[14:28] » Mr. Wertz.
>> Yes.
[14:30] » Mr. Merski.
>> No.
[14:33] » Mr. Bayle.
>> No.
[14:35] » And
[14:38] motion carries 4 to 3.
[14:44] » Anything further?
[14:48] » Uh
as a separate matter, uh I just wanted
[14:51] to let everyone know that Secretary of
State Al Schmidt will be in Erie next
[14:56] week, and he will be
>> [clears throat]
[14:59] » uh presenting an award to the
Benedictine Sisters of Erie on Monday,
[15:04] and will be uh speaking at our election
conference that starts at Bayfront on
[15:09] Tuesday.
So, I just wanted to make that
[15:11] announcement. We're happy to welcome
Secretary of State. And we also have uh
[15:16] a citation here for our members to sign
so that can be presented at the the time
[15:21] on Monday.
>> Karen, if you wouldn't mind affixing my
[15:25] stamp, I would appreciate it.
>> All right.
[15:30] I I have one thing. Karen, um did you
get a hold of Janice Morris, uh Godfrey
[15:36] Glenn?
>> Uh we have been reviewing we have some
[15:40] potential polling location changes and
uh we're still looking into all of those
[15:45] options. And I forwarded those, we
discussed those at our last staff
[15:49] meeting, and he and his staff members
have gone out to explore those
[15:52] locations.
>> But that was not on the list.
[15:55] » Yes.
>> All right. I might If I see them, I
[15:58] might give them a heads-up.
>> Okay.
[16:00] » They might get a phone call if that's
okay.
[16:02] » Okay, sure.
>> Okay.
[16:06] » We're looking at having um a Board of
Elections meeting, if not before, on
[16:11] September 15th to approve the ballot.
That gives us the longest amount of time
[16:16] between uh
time of approval and getting mail
[16:20] ballots out.
Uh we just were able to determine that
[16:23] date this morning, so wanted to
communicate that to the board as well.
[16:29] » Thank you.
[16:32] If nothing else, um
do I have a motion
[16:36] to adjourn?
>> So moved.
[16:43] » All right, thank you everyone.