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>> good morning, everyone. Good to see everyone this morning.

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we're going to get started with our work session going through our agenda for our 12 noon formal session.

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today's invocation will be led by legislator vinal. The pledge of allegiance will be led by legislator todaro.

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there are no tabled items from the previous meeting will be up for reconsideration.

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there are no items from the previous for reconsideration. The minutes from the previous meeting will be up for

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approval, and we have one public hearing, transfer, tax and road reserve fund,

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february 15, 2024 at 2:00 pm.

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miscellaneous resolutions on page 1 and page 2 has indicated there are no local laws at this time.

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committee report report number 3 from the public safety committee committee chair johnson.

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>> all set, madam chair. >> thank you. Report number 3 from the economic development committee committee chair johnson.

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>> we're going to be all set, but we're going to have an amendment to that economic debate.

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am I correct? We have an amendment to that. We'll do it. We're all set.

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>> thank you, sir. Legislative resolutions intro 4-1 from legislator meyers

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regarding calling on us congress and the city of new york to reimburse maryville school district.

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legislators, do you have any comments on the item? Well, this item will be up for approval today.

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continuing on with our agenda,

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intro 4-1 from legislators barnes and johnson

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regarding the audit corrective action plan requirement.

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are there any comments on this item? >> just so everybody knows this is calling on the controller to put

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together a plan for a corrective action plan for each department.

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this resolution here today is just instructing him to put some guidelines together and to then bring them back to us.

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we will have full discussion, a committee level, about it. We'll put it in committee.

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we'll discuss it amongst ourselves, we'll discuss it with the controller, but this is authorizing him to move forward

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and let's put some corrective action plans in place. I think we've all experienced what happens when an audit takes place in departments,

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and there's disagreements or there's nothing that happens after the audit,

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nothing takes place, no corrective measures are taking place.

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this will instruct that department on coming up with a plan

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on how to correct any mishandling of money or therefore,

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it's not today to discuss the body of it. We're going to ask the controller to do it and then we'll bring it back,

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put it in committee, and we'll have further discussion on it. This is something we wanted to adopt here today.

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>> thank you, legislator. >> legislator johnson. >> yeah. Madam chair, I concur with that.

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I come from a banking background and in banking departments had to create self-audits consistently.

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I mean, that's a way of checks and balances and that there's nothing in place,

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and the second part of this audit is unveiled some things

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that I think that it's just beyond our scope of imagination was happening,

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so I think corrective action and consistent corrective action is the way

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to go here because we have to find that what's happening. Because I know if we asked the question,

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the reference to be made, hey, we can't talk about that now because it's still an active investigation going on.

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but I think corrective action is a way to start that so we can get away from that type of commentary. Thank you.

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>> thank you. Continuing on with our agenda. Communications discharge committee communication 2e-1 from

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the economic development committee regarding from the county's resolution to

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authorize an entry into secondary extension contract with the western new york law center.

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paulette campbell's here to speak on this item in executive.

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mr. Clerk, are you going to speak on the item as well? Okay.

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>> sure. Just at the last meeting, there were some questions and there was a request

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for paulette to come in and her team and to put together a report,

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which we're handing out to the legislators. The good news is I think there's some really strong information in that report,

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and I think legislator todaro asked for a list of properties.

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not only did we give a list of the properties that were worked on by the western law center,

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we made sure that the property was attached to the legislator,

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so you know what properties were worked on on their behalf. Just briefly, and I'll leave it to them.

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they're a very humble group recently.

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this work has been looked on as a national model that we're doing here in erie county.

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and I'm very proud that not only you the legislature, but western law center has been a good team with that.

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paullete and your team, I'll let you give the report.

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thank you so much, chairwoman. >> thank you, mr. Clerk. Good morning, ladies. >> good morning.

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>> I will turn it over to gene who is in our department.

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we also have jordan [inaudible] who is the managing attorney of our housing unit.

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but gene has dealt directly with the properties for the past couple of years,

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so I will turn it over to gene a report. >> can everybody hear me okay?

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my name is gene blizzard. I'm the paralegal and community engagement specialist

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on the vacant abandoned property program at the western new york law center.

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in your packets, you will have received a written report of our services for 2023 two spreadsheets.

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one, that is a total spreadsheet of all of the properties that we worked on in 2023.

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then the second one is a breakdown by district of some of the zombie properties.

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the first section talks about the actual quantitative data of the report.

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we looked at research almost 500 vacant properties in

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2023, 139 of those were brand new reports.

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we get a lot of repeat reports. A lot of people calling in regularly every

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2-3 months about the same report in the same property in their community.

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those 500 properties create a ripple effect in the neighborhood.

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they don't just affect that one home, they affect the adjacent lot,

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the neighborhood, the community, the street as a whole, so it's not just 490 pinpoint issues.

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it creates a larger issue for the community in general.

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then that is the attachment 1, the full 490 properties.

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then of those 490, we split by district, the mortgage zombies.

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we make a distinction between a vacant abandoned property that has a mortgage versus one that doesn't have a mortgage.

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the reason that we chose to separate the mortgage properties for you by

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district is those are the properties we have the opportunity to make.

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we have the very clear legal avenues to seek compliance for properties that are dilapidated,

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falling apart under the zombie foreclosure law. Then you have the summary by district of those.

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we also redacted the house numbers just because when this information is shared publicly,

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we don't want increase of vandalism, people breaking in to steal copper,

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the neighbors being harassed about the property on the street. It's just a safety issue.

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but if you have questions about any specific properties in your district

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or anything that you think might not be on this list, you can absolutely reach out to me and my contact info is right in my report.

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there is a range of outcomes for these properties that we work on.

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ideally, all of them, at the end of the process, will be in compliance,

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fixed up, hopefully, sold in a new family living in them.

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but depending on the situation, sometimes they require external referrals to the department of health,

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code enforcement, local officials in the area.

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but ideally, we're looking for compliance and then that financial reinvestment in the community.

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speaking of financial reinvestment, we have estimated that almost $236,000 was reinvested into

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the community last year through banks making repairs on these vacant homes.

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that's a pretty conservative estimate in our opinion because we don't

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get to see the bills for the repairs that are done.

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if you think about how you can use kelly blue book to look up the value of your car,

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they also have a separate section that has a repairs estimate. We use their repair estimator to look,

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to generate an idea of what those repairs would have cost.

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but they are usually far below what banks actually spend to fix these properties up.

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due to the number of complaints that we get in during the year,

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we decided that we wanted to switch our approach a little bit and how we addressed the volume of complaints.

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we came up with a little bit of a rebrand. Quicker, cleaner, faster.

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quicker responses, cleaner neighborhoods, faster results.

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sometimes these properties take a lot of time to get fixed up.

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there's a lot of back and forth with the department of financial services

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with the actual bank servicers, code enforcement, and to really be able to focus our efforts,

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we created a top 10 list of properties to focus on.

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that doesn't mean that we're not still researching and looking into every single complaint that comes in.

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we just make sure that we're paying special attention to these properties because they are either low hanging fruit,

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so there's something we know we can easily get fixed up. Or they are a property that is very often complained about.

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sometimes we receive 5, 10, 15 complaints on the same property.

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we really want to be able to focus our efforts towards something that the community is really concerned about.

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you'll have that list of those properties with a brief online summary about the most recent work that's going on with them.

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there are court dates and interior inspections coming up for some of them.

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if one of those properties is in your district, you can definitely reach out to us.

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if you'd like to participate in either of those, we'd be happy to have you.

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I would like to highlight some of our wins,

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I guess, for this past year. There was a property on laird avenue that

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was beyond repair and it was becoming a severe fire and safety hazard,

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health risk to the community. The way that street is set up is the properties are so close together,

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barely a couple of feet in between them. If that house had gone up,

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the houses next to it would also have gone up as well.

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we were able to help facilitate the demolition of that,

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and the bank servicer on that property paid for that in full.

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we also have spent a lot of time trying to

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cultivate relationships with the electeds that we work with on a day-to-day basis.

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we have met with code enforcement from all municipalities.

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we did a bit of a tour last summer, where we went around to every municipality,

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meeting with the mayor, the supervisor, their code enforcement department.

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we've also met several times with some of the common council members,

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and we're looking to building new relationships with the new incoming members to see how we can better work together,

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now that they are in that position. We are always looking to work more closely with

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the electives because we can't do this work alone. We can't have eyes everywhere.

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it really requires us to work with electives,

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code enforcement, neighbors, and all of those resources working together.

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to be able to pool those resources, we hold task force meetings and a code enforcement roundtable.

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our code enforcement roundtable is an opportunity for code enforcement officers of

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all municipalities to come together and speak to each other, because they very rarely get to do that.

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they get to talk about the problems they're seeing in their municipality and see if other people are experiencing the same thing.

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if they are, what solutions are they trying to use to address those?

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we also take it as an opportunity to provide resources and training for them.

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at our most recent code enforcement roundtable, we had the erie county health department come in to talk about lead and lead abatement

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because obviously, we are all aware that asbestos is an issue. But lead is slowly becoming at

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the same level that asbestos is in properties in the county.

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we talked about getting lead certified to do those repairs, and the code enforcement officers really loved it.

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they even asked if the county would do a special training for them so that they could all get

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lead certified to do those repairs or at least be able to better identify what those repairs would entail.

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they have been very well received and the code enforcement officers

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love having that set aside time to be able to speak to one another,

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and then also pose questions to the law center about legal issues that they may not necessarily know the answers to.

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jordan actually gave a presentation on evictions for them,

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because a lot of their work is also people being evicted due to habitability issues,

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or they're raising habitability issues and they didn't necessarily know how to handle that situation because it's not a homeowner.

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jordan was able to provide some information and answer their questions on that.

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we don't always have those opportunities. Then our task force meetings,

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we invite all local elected officials, mayors, supervisors, code enforcement, all of our community departments,

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so belmont housing services, ppg to come together to talk about,

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again, issues that they're seeing in their communities.

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talking about how we can better come together to address them.

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code enforcement are welcome to come to those as well, but we'd like to have the separate time for them.

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also, our task force meetings, sometimes we have bank servicers that we work with.

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auckland financial corporation has been a long time partner with us.

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they are an out-of-town bank servicer that they actually fly in their representative,

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tamara gifford, from dc, to come to our meetings to meet with us.

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they meet with us once a month to go over the entire list of properties that they service in erie county,

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just so that we are aware of what properties should be on our radar,

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and also to keep them accountable for making sure that they're actually working on these properties and doing these repairs.

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in the past, m&t has also attended these task force meetings,

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and we're in the process of developing a better relationship with keybank as well,

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which is a good segue into our good neighbor project. Auckland was the first servicer that was asked to join the good neighbor project,

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which the whole idea is to be able to hold banks accountable in the way that we hold community members accountable.

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if you don't paint your house and you're the homeowner, you're going to get a code violation for it.

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if you are the bank servicer responsible for maintenance and you get a code violation for not painting your house,

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you're equally as responsible. Auckland has always been very proactive in reaching out to us,

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working with us, and we're not met with much resistance from them.

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when we tell them that there's an issue, they're like we'll get on it.

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I'll let you know what we can do or let's figure out a situation for that.

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we're hoping that more servicers will become as proactive as auckland is.

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I know sometimes that they see us as a scary entity of,

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well, you're just here to parade me and tell me what I'm doing wrong and expect me to spend money.

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but really our work is collaborative and if not everybody is participating,

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we're not going to get the best outcome. It's not about demonizing what you haven't done,

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it's about working together to make sure we're doing better for our communities.

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additionally, we made a return to what we call our foreclosure fridays,

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which every friday we would head out to a different zombie property that we have,

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whether it's on our top 10 list, which is what we've been focusing on, but in the past, we've done other properties outside of

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the list and that could be for a variety of reasons. Sometimes it's good news and we're going out there

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talking about how a servicer has already made repairs and has actually done the work that they said they were going to do.

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sometimes we are running a shame campaign about how we've been reaching out

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and asking them to do work and working with the department of financial services,

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and we've received no response or little work and we

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don't have an issue in pointing out the fact that you're either working with us or you're not working with us.

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because like we said, we want to hold you accountable in the same way we hold the community members accountable.

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then also, outside of all of the research that we do,

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the social media pushes and the task force meetings, we also try to be in the community as much as we can in an attempt to educate homeowners.

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because when it comes to foreclosure, a lot of properties become vacant because

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somebody gets a foreclosure notice and they think that they have to immediately leave. They don't know that they have rights.

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they don't know that they can stay in their property. We're trying to let people know that there are rights, you have options.

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you don't have to leave your home. We try to connect them with as many resources as possible.

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whether that's trying to figure out an estate matter or just navigating the foreclosure process with them,

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or helping negotiate a payment plan. If it's about a tax foreclosure,

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we want to be able to keep people in their homes and preserve homeownership and preserve neighborhoods whenever possible.

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>> sorry, I'll just say real quick. As you've heard, gene has a wealth of knowledge about the issues

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in the community with respect to vacant and abandoned properties, and without this funding.

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unfortunately, these services would not continue. That would mean the law center may not be able to continue doing

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the vacant and abandoned taskforce meetings that are held quarterly or the code enforcement trainings,

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and unfortunately, would not be able to partner with municipalities in the same way

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to hold servicers accountable for maintenance in the communities.

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we welcome any questions you do have about the services the law center has provided for the past several years.

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>> I'd also like to know before we get into questions, that the work that we do is entirely unique.

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nobody else is doing this work in new york state. We were actually invited to a conference in 2022 in chicago,

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the reclaiming vacant properties conference, and they had a panel on our work and what we were doing here in buffalo.

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it's a national conference and people are doing vacant work in other states.

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but we are the premier resource around the vacant abandoned properties in new york state.

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nobody else has a program like we do. What we're doing is very unique,

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but also is something that the community really needs, because if we don't do it,

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nobody else is doing it.

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>> on the question. Legislative, fine.

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>> thank you for coming. I was wondering that when we first talked about zombie houses,

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it was more about houses that were upside down on the mortgage, or the mortgage was so high more than the value of the property,

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and the same on the taxes, we did the super bids, it was because the taxes were higher than the value of the property.

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then over the course of the last 20-some years, things have changed and there's new issues that the issue of houses sell so fast,

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foreclosed properties sell so fast. There was a gap obviously during covid when there were

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no foreclosures going through and there were no text foreclosures of mortgage foreclosures going through.

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but other than that, things sell so fast and for so much and go to foreclosure.

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mortgage foreclosure sell way more than the mortgages or whatever. The traditional, what I thought of the zombie is a zombie house

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that can't be sold because the mortgage is more than the value of the house.

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I don't consider a zombie house something that's in the process of a normal foreclosure.

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whether it's an estate with no heirs or whatever, and the bank has to do a foreclosure.

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but as far as these houses that you're classifying is not say for example,

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it's hard for me to look because none of them have addresses. I understand your point about privacy,

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but on the other hand, if you're reporting to us, they should have addresses. Because how can we check to see the history of those properties in neighborhoods?

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because we might know those. But as with regard to the ones that are classified as zombies,

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does that mean that the mortgage is more than the value of the house,

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or just that the foreclosure is taken on because of covid closings?

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now, when you say the word zombie, what do you mean by zombie?

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>> under the zombie foreclosure law, a vacant and abandoned property,

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and there's criteria for determining whether a property is vacant, abandoned or not.

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because sometimes we get complains about a seasonal home that's not vacant and abandoned.

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is a vacant abandoned home with a delinquent mortgage. It can be anywhere in the foreclosure process.

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>> in other words, it doesn't mean that the foreclosure could be a lot less than the value of the property.

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it's just a zombie because it's in the foreclosure. To me, an abandoned house that's in the foreclosure isn't zombie.

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that zombie means something that they can't sell because there's some issue.

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>> the unsellable quality of it is that the property is in poor condition.

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we're not focusing just on houses that are in perfectly fine condition and could be sold easily in the foreclosure process.

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these are properties that require extensive repairs and sometimes even a demolition and a new build,

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which obviously the bank has to weigh the pros and cons of what is cheaper for them.

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but we care about the fact that the foreclosure process is long in new york state and properties will continue to get worse,

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especially through buffalo winters if they're not maintained.

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that is the zombie portion. The unsellable aspect is that these properties are so deteriorated,

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nobody would even be interested in purchase them regardless. >> what are the addresses on amherst just so that I can,

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because if you're saying that, I'm just just wondering as far as the zombie is like deadbeat dad.

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it's like one of those terms has a very negative thing. If you over use it, it has got a negative thing to a neighborhood.

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it's not like zombie is like walking dead,

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that meaning that it can't go. >> not. >> I'm saying that the zombie houses,

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if they're in a mortgage foreclosure house and the amount of the mortgage is less than the value of the house.

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are all these zombies ones where the mortgage is greater than the value of the house so that they can't be sold.

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>> I'm sorry to cut you off, gene, I think it really varies to be a zombie property.

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there just has to be a mortgage on the property, a 1-4 family household,

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and it is somewhere in the foreclosure process. It has to be a vacant and abandoned property,

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and usually the properties only come to our attention because a code enforcement officer or

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the community is reporting because the mortgage servicer is not doing the upkeep on the property.

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>> the one in garland, is that 95 maryland or is that the different address?

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I just looked up to see if there were foreclosures on garland and 95 came up.

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but it's sold almost immediately as soon as listed. Effect of contract was five days after it was listed?

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>> yes. >> is it 95 maryland? >> I don't know off the top of my head if it's 95 maryland I could provide you and

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every legislator for the specific addresses so that we can look into them together if you'd like.

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but not all of these properties are things that we're still working on.

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most of the zombies have been closed by the end of the year, whether that's because they sold or they were in compliance,

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a new family moved in. There's a couple of reasons why that would be closed.

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>> I really think that the western new york law center is awesome and great,

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and I really think that housing is a major issue. My point is that I think the reason I wasn't involved in decision to have this,

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but howard johnson and others, I think it's really good because we have to check to see.

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we're spending our money on things to see what is really the most neededd? Are zombie properties the most need right now,

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or affordable housing so people can get in faster and buy a house faster.

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I'm wondering, that's what I think the reason was, is to see if the zombie issue is an issue today.

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just like on the mortgage foreclosure, like I really think I'm the super vince because I don't think it's an issue today.

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it's an issue from 30 years ago, doesn't exist today, and I'd rather spend our money on things to help regular people get into houses.

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that's why I think it would be good to have the actual addresses just so we can just see.

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maybe more of a write up instead of talking generalities just to see on these properties,

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if it's just like a neighbor complained and then someone called and took out,

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you had the garbage taken out or whatever. But as far as like just looking,

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I look at the buffalo largournal every day. Every time it comes out of the foreclosures, they sell so fast.

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I'm just wondering if this is the issue that it was 20 years ago and I should not.

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we're going to move we have legislators who have questions. I suggest you and the legislator will set up some time to talk in depth

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about her theories and concerns about zombie properties are still thing or not.

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legislator johnson and legislator for showing. >> I just asked a couple of questions.

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I'm not a lawyer nor do I play one on tv, so zombie, when you say

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the term zombie and I see facing and abandoned and zombie, what is that?

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what is exactly the definition of the zombie crop?

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>> yes. Under the zombie foreclosure law, the legal definition of it is a vacant and abandoned home,

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which that has its own criteria of determining whether it's actually vacant and abandoned, and it has a delinquent mortgage.

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it could be at the initial filing stage all the way up to there might have been a judgment entered,

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so it could be anywhere in the foreclosure process.

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>> then the vna on here is vacant and abandoned, correct? >> yes. Vacant and abandoned.

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but there is not a mortgage on it. >> there is not a mortgage on it. What does other mean?

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>> other is a catch all term for sometimes we get properties reported to us that are not mortgage and the taxes are paid,

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so that's not really what we are looking into, and it's obviously impossible for people to know when they report properties to us,

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whether there's a mortgage, whether the taxes are paid. Which is part of the reason that's part of our job,

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is looking into it to see if there's actually any type of legal recourse that we can pursue.

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sometimes those are properties that we've marked in our system because they have sold,

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they're occupied now, they're no longer as bees. Sometimes they are in estate issue.

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in the past, we have helped people work through estate issues to help move the property.

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we've also helped a couple families get back into their homes even though it was in foreclosure and they thought they had to leave,

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and we were able to work out something with their servicer for them.

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unfortunately, other is a bit of a large catch all term for it doesn't just fit so cleanly into the zombie.

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>> I should note that the biggest issue why these homes are not selling is because if there's an estate issue,

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the homeowner is deceased, no one wants to claim the property, then that just delays the foreclosure process even longer.

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these homes aren't selling the source in the neighborhood, so it becomes a big issue.

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>> thank you for that. This list that you guys provided right here,

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these are the current making abandoned other zomic properties. This is the current list?

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>> which list? Attachment? >> the attachment. >> oh yes. The attachment 1,

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those 490 properties and then attachment 2, the ones by district, those are properties that we researched

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closed and there was some type of outcome in 2023.

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>> I can say here, these are the properties that we saved, so to speak.

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>> I don't assume saved would be the word, because there's a spectrum of what it looks like for compliance, unfortunately.

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>> again, how do you guys identify the zombie problems?

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is it a list that's generated, you go through foreclosure list from the city and the county,

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or are you guys go on actively searching for this problem? >> we don't have to actively search for them because so many people report them to us.

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we get complaints from neighbors, we get complaints on social media,

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mayors, supervisors, code enforcement officers. We very rarely ever have to seek them out.

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people bring them to us. Then we do the background research to figure out if it is mortgage,

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if it doesn't have a mortgage on it and it's delinquent, then we file a complaint with the department of financial services.

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they're kind of our go between the bank servicer, if there's no mortgage that looks a little bit different and requires outside referrals.

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because the zombie foreclosure law only covers mortgage 1-4 family homes.

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>> I have just two questions and they'll be quick questions. Once the property assigned say it goes to the court proceeding process,

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do you guys follow up after the court proceeding process, or once you guys get into the court proceeding process,

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will it just kind of go through the process there and you guys just move on?

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>> meaning if it's in housing court or the actual foreclosure process. >> well, in the same housing court,

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it has an issue with repairs.

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>> yeah, absolutely. As long as I'm able, I will go to the court dates if it's in buffalo city housing court,

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buffalo city code enforcement. They've been really great in all of the work.

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we worked very closely with them. They are always reaching out, asking to collaborate on things.

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and they're very communicative about things that are going on.

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and if we have bank contacts that we can share to try to get banks in housing court more often.

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that's really what code enforcement is moving towards. Because when they write violations and judgments

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for a deceased homeowner or an absent homeowner, they're never going to get that money.

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>> that answers my second question. I'm good, so thank you.

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>> we're researching the property and checking up on what's going on throughout the life of the foreclosure.

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but the goal is for the foreclosure to go through as soon as possible.

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>> thank you. Legislative by sean. Legislative by mizie.

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>> thank you. I have a hypothetical question I guess. If you had a situation where

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a municipality was dealing with the zombie house or squatter, and there was a lender involved.

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is there some date you can provide in that situation and say the house without a code,

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and they don't know who to site or how to deal with it? >> yeah, absolutely. That's actually something that happens quite

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often as people will report something as a vacant property,

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but really there is unwanted family member there or a squatter.

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we don't work on properties that are occupied, regardless of who they are occupied by.

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if there is a bank servicer involved, we can alert them to the fact that your property is supposed to be vacant,

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but there is somebody occupying it, and then the ball is in their court. But that's not our responsibility,

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nor do we have any legal avenues to remove someone from a property.

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>> I wasn't asking to remove, I just wondered if the property is a cold. For example, code violations to help

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address bills because the service provider doesn't necessarily own the property at that point.

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right. It's still the owner, maybe the foreclosure process for understanding.

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>> if the property is in foreclosure, if it is a mortgaged property and the bank is, you know,

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holding that delinquent mortgage, they are responsible for maintenance as long as the property is vacant.

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if there's a squatter in that property, there's not supposed to be.

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it's up to them to handle that situation as well as address the code of violations.

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if there's someone occupying the property and they are later removed,

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we'll be happy to assist if they want our help. But we don't really intervene in properties that are occupied in any way.

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>> you would be helpful at this stage of the process.

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perhaps in reaching out to the lender, and just letting you know the situation. Then if this person were removed,

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what type of right would you provide at that point? If it was vacated, you would help them to fix the house,

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to actually pay contractors to go there? >> we don't pay anyone to do anything.

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not a single cent comes out of our pocket for these things. If the property was later vacant,

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and we would probably file a complaint with the department of financial services,

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depending on who the lender is, we might be able to reach out to them directly because we have a relationship with

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them then it is their both legal and financial responsibility to fix the property.

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we don't pay for any of it. >> you have a way to hold the lender accountable?

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some property can just twist that a little bit? >> sure, I'm not an attorney,

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so this is going to be in late person speech. >> that much of money.

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>> essentially. Under the zombie foreclosure law, we can charge bank servicers $500 a day per day that the property is not in compliance,

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and up to $74,999.

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if we go over 75, it has to go into supreme court and that just costs more money.

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but they can get fined every day for how long

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the property is not in compliance then if it really does take that long,

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we could pursue a lawsuit on behalf of the municipality to not only get compliance,

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but also recoup those fines which come back to

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the municipality that we asked that they use specifically to fund housing and vacancy prevention.

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>> you've done at three of those lawsuits? >> our third one is pending. Yes.

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>> pending now. Thanks. >> yeah. I was just going to do a quick addendum.

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we can actually charge them 500 per day. Yes. The municipal attorneys or actually we can on behalf of the town, file a lawsuit.

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it normally does not need to get to that stage because we try to work with the servicer.

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if we can't just come to some resolution with them,

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then you pursue a department of financial service with complaint,

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and that will usually get them to comply. >> sorry, one more. How do I get somebody in touch with?

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you may face this issue in municipality? >> yeah. I mean, they can reach out to me directly.

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both my phone number and my email are in the cover letter and the report. They can reach out to me directly.

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or if you want to give me their information, I can reach out to them whatever is easier.

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but they can reach out to me directly. >> thank you.

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>> legislator by mizie. >> thank you. My angle is a little bit different.

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it seems to be everything you said is you're doing great work.

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but it seems like your goal and your authority is to maintain

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the property within the neighborhood so it becomes less of an eye sower until something is done.

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you seem like you've acted as a building inspector, as a communicator,

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as someone who can come in and get windows replaced or roots put

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on it or something that by making the mortgage move is that accurate?

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>> yeah. Our goal at the end of the day is, one get the property in compliance, preserve neighborhoods,

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preserve homeownership and that includes following through,

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making sure the foreclosure is complete, and at the end of the day, we would love to see a new family in that home.

402
00:40:44,285 --> 00:40:47,705
I don't want to see an out-of-town landlord or an out-of-town investor. I want to see a local family in that home.

403
00:40:50,315 --> 00:40:50,315
but I also want the property to be safe for them to live in before they purchase it.

404
00:40:56,435 --> 00:40:56,435
>> well, the biggest problem with housing in western new york,

405
00:41:03,155 --> 00:41:06,005
and I'm going to put it in a quotation "zombies", is because there's no movement on the.

406
00:41:08,720 --> 00:41:11,735
there is zero movement and it's usually by lenders. Lenders will not move because as we all know,

407
00:41:14,510 --> 00:41:17,120
the housing market in your county is through the roof, and any house that becomes available is always scooped up.

408
00:41:21,050 --> 00:41:21,050
we have an issue with banks or lenders that will not move on properties,

409
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,150
and they have various reasons. They're upside down, the mortgage, it's not cost effective for them to move it,

410
00:41:31,340 --> 00:41:31,340
and then the county won't foreclose on them if there is a mortgage.

411
00:41:36,035 --> 00:41:39,110
that creates empty and abandoned homes. Your program really isn't to address the real problem,

412
00:41:45,545 --> 00:41:48,080
and that is the banks and then us, the county, and nobody will move on these homes.

413
00:41:50,615 --> 00:41:50,615
you're you're keeping the band aid on it and hoping you could work out some resolution.

414
00:42:01,100 --> 00:42:04,680
>> I'm not sure that I fully understand the question, but we are trying to get the banks to move more quickly on the foreclosures.

415
00:42:10,710 --> 00:42:14,040
the weight behind that is the zombie property law that was put into place a few years ago,

416
00:42:19,095 --> 00:42:23,025
that says that they can be held accountable up to $500 per day, that the property is not in compliance.

417
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:29,205
>> the $500 usually tap on the price of the auction, kind of the big vicious cycle that you can't get yourself out.

418
00:42:33,610 --> 00:42:35,975
I understand what you're doing, and it's quality work.

419
00:42:39,845 --> 00:42:42,125
I agree with you on what you're doing. I just think that it needs to be understood that there is

420
00:42:46,050 --> 00:42:46,050
a bigger issue on how hard it is to move these properties that banks will not respond.

421
00:42:51,540 --> 00:42:55,455
I did this for years in my previous job, and banks will ignore you. You can push the problem because you can get to attorneys,

422
00:42:58,260 --> 00:42:58,260
but if they don't see any money at the end of it,

423
00:43:03,825 --> 00:43:07,335
they walk away, just like the homeowners walk away, and that lies the problem.

424
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:13,065
when there is a mortgage on the property, it's forsaken if the banks won't move.

425
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:17,120
it's probably out of your scope of work on actually trying to do that.

426
00:43:23,340 --> 00:43:26,070
I know you've made contacts and you get people to move. Some banks are cooperative on moving,

427
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:31,200
but if there was a way, and I guess I'm not asking you to answer,

428
00:43:34,305 --> 00:43:37,080
but if there is a way that we ever really could do something to get banks to move quickly,

429
00:43:41,895 --> 00:43:44,430
and I've said this often with, once the taxes get upside down on properties,

430
00:43:48,510 --> 00:43:51,600
I've always kind of resorted to, that's what should be used for.

431
00:43:54,240 --> 00:43:56,520
the land bank should be used for, I'm going to say we use the word washing.

432
00:43:58,815 --> 00:44:02,700
washing of taxes. A tax bill or a mortgage bill. Then the property could go into the county auction.

433
00:44:05,385 --> 00:44:07,320
that would be the proper use, I shouldn't say proper, that would be the best use for a land bank.

434
00:44:10,545 --> 00:44:10,545
we shouldn't be rehabilitating houses, we shouldn't be rebuild.

435
00:44:14,625 --> 00:44:16,905
that's not what the county should be doing, but we should be making properties available to the general public,

436
00:44:21,300 --> 00:44:24,675
and we make them available by giving them on the auction board. I think the county has an obligation like I said,

437
00:44:32,250 --> 00:44:36,210
either to make properties whole so they are available. You can teach. I'm not sure everybody

438
00:44:38,250 --> 00:44:41,835
understands how hard unless they get a property to the auction because once it gets there,

439
00:44:43,275 --> 00:44:46,575
it will go no matter what treatments in it will go, and whether it's to a flipper,

440
00:44:49,770 --> 00:44:52,185
to an investor, or to an on the town person. We can't be so picky as to who purchases the property

441
00:44:56,055 --> 00:44:58,560
because more than likely they're in it for the money. If they're in for the money, they're in it to flip.

442
00:45:00,900 --> 00:45:02,895
they're in it to flip it, they're in it to improve. We want to encourage and we want to help people to repair these houses,

443
00:45:09,855 --> 00:45:13,680
to update these homes, and those are flippers, those are contractors. Those are guys that have the means to do it, they do it for a living.

444
00:45:16,620 --> 00:45:16,620
but by not making the housing stock available to them, it's helping no one.

445
00:45:23,850 --> 00:45:23,850
>> we have gotten a bank to

446
00:45:29,370 --> 00:45:29,370
walk away and to discharge their mortgage when they were not moving on a property,

447
00:45:34,740 --> 00:45:34,740
and then we were trying to get the county to bring it to tax foreclosure,

448
00:45:41,210 --> 00:45:44,460
and we know there's a delay in that process. >> yeah.

449
00:45:45,255 --> 00:45:48,780
>> we did have conversations with the land bank for this particular property I'm thinking of in the village of gowanda,

450
00:45:53,070 --> 00:45:55,905
to see if there was any way to escalate it, and it can be an issue.

451
00:45:58,710 --> 00:45:58,710
but we have worked on properties where there's I'll say special circumstances.

452
00:46:06,225 --> 00:46:06,225
>> right. It seems like county money would be wisely

453
00:46:11,175 --> 00:46:11,175
spent if we had made that available,

454
00:46:16,275 --> 00:46:18,690
I'm just saying land bank, it's not the land bank, that that would that would make the ease of to foreclosure and the auction path.

455
00:46:26,190 --> 00:46:28,610
there has to be a path to get there, and whether it's something, like I said,

456
00:46:32,405 --> 00:46:32,405
to release the taxes or the mortgage,

457
00:46:37,415 --> 00:46:39,365
or some means to an end. Otherwise there are properties that will never move.

458
00:46:42,230 --> 00:46:42,230
we could demolish them, in the town where I came from, we could start demolishing them,

459
00:46:47,660 --> 00:46:50,165
and they send empty lots, and the amount of money that is now on that lot will never be sold,

460
00:46:54,955 --> 00:46:56,880
until it gets washed. It just seems like there has to be some other way that we as legislators

461
00:47:03,690 --> 00:47:03,690
can create a fund for the good of the county to move properties that are stopped.

462
00:47:11,670 --> 00:47:11,670
I commend the work you're doing,

463
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:16,520
but more needs to be done. Thank you for your time.

464
00:47:20,590 --> 00:47:24,215
>> any other questions from the members? Legislator todaro? >> I just want to make a statement.

465
00:47:26,105 --> 00:47:29,635
in the past, I've sat in three meetings. The village of the pew, village of lancaster,

466
00:47:32,595 --> 00:47:32,595
and the town of lancaster, on zombie properties.

467
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:40,410
in the meeting with the zombie coalition, and I heard nothing but raving from the local officials,

468
00:47:46,485 --> 00:47:49,395
and the building inspectors because they have a voice now, a tool that anyone with a vested interest on the property is responsible,

469
00:47:56,085 --> 00:47:58,425
and they're getting the banks off their hands, let's say to expedite that property to get from a blighted situation,

470
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:05,955
to at least putting a roof on it, or eradicating the rats in the neighborhood,

471
00:48:09,525 --> 00:48:12,270
getting the grass cut, making it safer. I applaud what they're doing,

472
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:16,005
and I've witnessed it, and I've had no negative feedback from the coalition.

473
00:48:21,420 --> 00:48:21,420
I want to make that known because there's some concerns here, they're valid.

474
00:48:27,405 --> 00:48:30,495
but I've actually sat in those meetings and I've seen the outcome, and I want to congratulate you.

475
00:48:32,010 --> 00:48:34,200
thank you for doing the work. Thank you. >> thank you, legislator todaro. Legislator greene.

476
00:48:37,095 --> 00:48:37,095
>> thank you. Listening to legislator bargnesi,

477
00:48:41,220 --> 00:48:44,480
listening to legislator todaro, what they've experienced, the private sector.

478
00:48:48,405 --> 00:48:50,910
it seems like we have a problem that we've all been trying to address with the housing crisis.

479
00:48:53,895 --> 00:48:57,180
what do you think we could do as legislature, again, just not that your legal experts,

480
00:48:58,875 --> 00:48:58,875
but just your opinion to maybe move these processes along faster.

481
00:49:03,540 --> 00:49:07,440
to get these properties into the private sector, have people investing in them,

482
00:49:09,210 --> 00:49:11,250
and get them back onto the market. Is there anything we can do from your perspective?

483
00:49:13,710 --> 00:49:13,710
>> I will say when it comes to mortgage backing the abandoned properties,

484
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:21,270
there is an expedited foreclosure process that exists to get it to a foreclosure sale faster.

485
00:49:25,230 --> 00:49:28,950
the banks don't use it, and I do not know why. It would be in their best interest to sell these properties quickly so that they can

486
00:49:34,410 --> 00:49:34,410
make more money as opposed to it becoming more underwater, requiring more repairs.

487
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:41,480
if we could somehow collaborate at a solution to using that,

488
00:49:47,100 --> 00:49:50,985
it would be amazing, because the regular foreclosure process in new york state is long, and that's meant to protect homeowners.

489
00:49:53,100 --> 00:49:56,415
but seeing as the properties are not owner occupied, the homeowner is not living there,

490
00:49:58,110 --> 00:50:00,210
that doesn't really apply. When it comes to the properties that are tax delinquent,

491
00:50:03,690 --> 00:50:06,945
that have no mortgages, those are the biggest issues. Those are the properties we receive the most complaints about,

492
00:50:10,605 --> 00:50:14,055
and they are the most difficult for us to deal with, because I can't force it to be on the county auction list,

493
00:50:18,810 --> 00:50:21,450
I can't force somebody to buy it. There's less that I personally and the law center can do to push it to that point,

494
00:50:27,150 --> 00:50:30,630
and a lot of the properties that are tax delinquent that we've seen, sometimes are one $200,000 underwater,

495
00:50:35,010 --> 00:50:37,140
and most of that is interest. People can't crawl their way out of an 18% back tax rate,

496
00:50:42,975 --> 00:50:44,580
even if they wanted to, if they owed over $200,000 in taxes,

497
00:50:47,670 --> 00:50:50,175
and sometimes that's because the owner is deceased. The estate problem is a whole separate issue,

498
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:53,760
but something really needs to be done about the tax delinquent properties,

499
00:50:59,370 --> 00:51:02,820
because those are the hardest for us to work on. Our work is not preventing these properties from going to sale.

500
00:51:07,410 --> 00:51:11,355
that's what we want. We want people to live in them, we want them to be occupied. But in the meantime,

501
00:51:12,870 --> 00:51:15,270
if we can be making them safer, and fixing them up for the community,

502
00:51:17,100 --> 00:51:19,920
that's a service to the community in the meantime. But the tax delinquent properties are the biggest issue that we have.

503
00:51:24,910 --> 00:51:28,610
>> any other questions? Western new york law center, thank you for your service to the residents of erie county and

504
00:51:31,190 --> 00:51:34,040
the work that you do in housing redevelopment, and of course, for joining us here today, wonderful presentation.

505
00:51:36,935 --> 00:51:36,935
thank you, ladies. We're going to get back to going through our agenda.

506
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:55,385
we're still at communications discharged from committee. Communication 16e-19 from the energy and environment committee.

507
00:52:01,025 --> 00:52:01,025
we have joe fiegl here to speak on sewer district number 4. Good morning, joe.

508
00:52:08,890 --> 00:52:08,890
>> good morning. What I'm requesting today is

509
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:17,210
an amendment and subsequent approval for an opening, and for contract number 60a in sewer district number 4.

510
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:25,265
we opened bids on the project, the lowest responsible bidder was catco, at $1.171 million.

511
00:52:30,905 --> 00:52:32,960
it was below the engineer's estimate. The majority of the funding will be through american rescue plan,

512
00:52:36,455 --> 00:52:36,455
with a small amount to be funded at a later date.

513
00:52:42,575 --> 00:52:45,080
everything looks in order, and it's a really important project we would like to advance.

514
00:52:47,930 --> 00:52:50,450
>> any questions from the members? This item will be up for consideration today,

515
00:52:53,645 --> 00:52:56,450
and that is an amendment? >> yes, please. >> okay. Communication 2e-23,

516
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:03,140
sewer district number 3. >> this is another amendment for a bid opening that we had earlier this year.

517
00:53:09,095 --> 00:53:12,020
contract number 71 at the southtowns facility. It would be replacing the heat exchanger at the plant.

518
00:53:15,140 --> 00:53:17,120
hohl industrial services was the lowest responsible bidder at a little under $1.5 million.

519
00:53:20,495 --> 00:53:23,570
we'll be funding this through capital reserves, again, below the engineer's estimate and everything looks in order,

520
00:53:26,660 --> 00:53:28,940
it's our recommendation to proceed ahead. >> great. Good to go.

521
00:53:31,475 --> 00:53:34,290
up for amendment and approval today. >> thank you, chair. >> thank you, mr. Fiegl. Continuing on with our agenda.

522
00:53:36,530 --> 00:53:38,165
suspension of the rules. Communication 4e-30 from legislator gilmour

523
00:53:41,690 --> 00:53:44,285
regarding the lease for his legislative office space, will be up for approval.

524
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:45,800
communication 4e-31 from legislator baskin regarding an appointment to

525
00:53:50,240 --> 00:53:50,240
the erie county agricultural and farm land protection board will be up for approval,

526
00:53:54,950 --> 00:53:54,950
and intro 4-3 from legislators mills and

527
00:54:00,050 --> 00:54:01,220
gilmour regarding the erie county store and water conservation district board of directors appointment.

528
00:54:06,410 --> 00:54:09,185
this item will be up for approval today as well. Continuing on with our agenda,

529
00:54:10,805 --> 00:54:12,815
communication from elected officials. Communication 4e-1 through and including 4e-17 as indicated.

530
00:54:21,740 --> 00:54:23,945
continuing on with our agenda. Communication 4e-18, through and including communication 4e-29 as indicated.

531
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:32,660
communications from the departments. Communication 4d-1 through and including communication 4d-6 as indicated,

532
00:54:39,740 --> 00:54:42,350
and communications from the people in other agencies. Communication 4m-1 through and including communication 4m-6 as indicated.

533
00:54:49,580 --> 00:54:51,830
any announcements for each other? Members we'll reconvene at 12 noon for a formal session.

534
00:54:55,625 --> 00:54:55,625
thanks. [background] good afternoon everyone.

535
00:55:03,950 --> 00:55:07,115
I call this meeting of the erie county legislature to order. This is meeting number 4 of the erie county legislature,

536
00:55:15,230 --> 00:55:15,230
february 15th, [laughter] 2024.

537
00:55:20,705 --> 00:55:24,365
madam clerk, would you please take the role? >> legislator greene. >> here. >> legislator lorigo,

538
00:55:25,730 --> 00:55:29,375
not present. Legislator mills. >> here. >> todaro. >> here. >> bargnesi.

539
00:55:30,335 --> 00:55:34,250
>> here. >> baskin. >> here. >> gilmour. >> I'm here. >> johnson. >> here. >> kooshoian.

540
00:55:35,075 --> 00:55:38,855
>> here. >> meyers. >> here. >> vinal. >> I'm here. >> call present. >> thank you. Today's invocation will be led by legislator vinal.

541
00:55:42,590 --> 00:55:45,610
please stand if you are able. >> I'd like to read the collect by mary stewart.

542
00:55:52,325 --> 00:55:54,440
"keep us o god from pettiness. Let us be large in thought, in word, in deed.

543
00:55:57,260 --> 00:56:00,635
let us be done with fault finding and leave off self-seeking. May we put away all pretense and meet each other face to

544
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:05,915
face without self pity, and without prejudice. May we never be hasty in judgment, and always generous.

545
00:56:08,990 --> 00:56:11,075
let us take time for all things, make us to grow calm, serene, gentle.

546
00:56:13,550 --> 00:56:13,550
teach us to put into action our better impulses, straightforward and unafraid.

547
00:56:17,675 --> 00:56:21,305
grant that we may realize it is in the little things that create differences. That in the big things of life we are at one,

548
00:56:23,975 --> 00:56:23,975
and may we strive to touch and to know the great human heart of us all,

549
00:56:28,295 --> 00:56:28,295
and o lord god, let us not forget to be kind."

550
00:56:32,470 --> 00:56:35,150
>> amen. Thank you, legislator. Please remain standing for the pledge of allegiance led by legislator todaro.

551
00:56:52,025 --> 00:56:55,250
on with our agenda. Tabled items, there are none. Items for reconsideration from the previous meeting, there are none.

552
00:56:58,940 --> 00:57:02,045
minutes from the previous meeting, majority leader, you have the floor. >> thank you, madam chair. I move for immediate consideration on above.

553
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:07,790
>> second. >> there's been a proper motion for consideration approval made by the majority leader has been seconded by legislator gilmour on the question. All in favor?

554
00:57:11,495 --> 00:57:14,640
>> [overlapping] aye. >> any opposed? >> carried unanimously. >> carried unanimously, the minutes are approved.

555
00:57:17,290 --> 00:57:20,410
public hearings today at 2:00 pm. There will be a public hearing on the transfer tax and road reserve fund here in the chambers.

556
00:57:24,700 --> 00:57:24,700
to now with our agenda miscellaneous resolutions on page 1 continued on to page 2.

557
00:57:28,870 --> 00:57:32,435
majority leader, you have the floor. >> madam chairman, I have the motion to consider. >> second. >> [inaudible] at a motion to consider

558
00:57:33,710 --> 00:57:35,960
miscellaneous resolutions made by the majority leader has been seconded by legislator johnson on the question. All in favor.

559
00:57:39,740 --> 00:57:42,095
>> aye. >> any opposed? >> ten to zero. >> okay. Carrimously miscellaneous resolutions are not before the body. Majority leader.

560
00:57:48,250 --> 00:57:50,300
>> [inaudible] approved at all. >> second. >> a motion to amend and make at all made by the majority leader has

561
00:57:53,660 --> 00:57:57,560
been seconded by legislator gilmour on the question. All in favor. >> [overlapping] aye. >> any opposed?

562
00:57:58,400 --> 00:57:59,390
>> ten to zero. >> unanimously, the miscellaneous resolutions are amended. Majority leader.

563
00:58:03,095 --> 00:58:05,870
>> madam chair, moved to approve as amended. >> second. >> proper motion to approve the miscellaneous resolutions as amended made by

564
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:10,430
the majority leader has been seconded by legislator johnson on the question. All in favor?

565
00:58:13,310 --> 00:58:15,935
>> aye. >> any opposed? >> ten to zero. >> thank you. The miscellaneous resolutions are approved as amended.

566
00:58:19,100 --> 00:58:22,265
continuing on with our agenda. Local laws, there are none. Committee reports report number 3 from

567
00:58:23,930 --> 00:58:25,970
the public safety committee committee. Chair johnson. >> thank you, madam chair. Move immediate consideration approved.

568
00:58:28,630 --> 00:58:32,030
>> second. >> motion for immediate consideration approval made by committee chair johnson has been seconded by legislator gilmour on the question. All in favor?

569
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:39,260
>> [overlapping] aye. >> any opposed? >> ten to zero. >> okay. Chair, the report is approved.

570
00:58:40,745 --> 00:58:44,420
report number 3 from the economic development committee. Committee chair johnson. >> move for consideration.

571
00:58:46,085 --> 00:58:48,620
>> second. >> there's been a proper motion for immediate consideration and approval made by committee chair johnson,

572
00:58:50,780 --> 00:58:54,695
has been seconded by legislator gilmour on the question. All in favor? >> aye.

573
00:58:55,835 --> 00:58:57,890
>> opposed? >> ten to zero. >> okay. Did he move the entire report?

574
00:59:06,415 --> 00:59:09,970
>> no, he just moved for immediate consideration. >> oh, move for immediate consideration.

575
00:59:11,260 --> 00:59:14,155
the report is now before the body. Legislator johnson. >> move to amend the report by making item number 1 receiving box. It's accurate.

576
00:59:19,330 --> 00:59:21,790
>> there's been a motion made by legislator johnson. It has been seconded by legislator gilmour to receive

577
00:59:24,610 --> 00:59:24,610
a file item number 1 on the question. All in favor?

578
00:59:29,268 --> 00:59:31,870
>> aye. >> any opposed? >> ten to zero. >> the report is now amended, legislator.

579
00:59:34,495 --> 00:59:38,020
>> all right, move to approve the report as amended. >> motion to approve the report as amended made by legislator johnson,

580
00:59:42,995 --> 00:59:46,995
seconded by legislator gilmour. On the question. All in favor? >> aye. >> any opposed?

581
00:59:47,925 --> 00:59:51,555
>> ten to zero. >> the report is now approved as amended. Legislator resolution intro 4-1. Majority leader.

582
00:59:55,705 --> 00:59:58,420
>> thank you, madam chair. I move for immediate consideration and approval. >> there has been a proper motion for

583
00:59:59,710 --> 01:00:02,950
immediate consideration and approval made by the majority leader. Do have a second. >> second.

584
01:00:03,730 --> 01:00:06,235
>> seconded by minority leader mills. On the question. All in favor?

585
01:00:08,185 --> 01:00:10,510
>> aye. >> any approach? >> ten to zero. >> the motion carries. The resolution is approved.

586
01:00:12,685 --> 01:00:15,685
intro 4-2. Mr. Meyers. >> thank you, madam chair. Move for immediate consideration and approval.

587
01:00:17,965 --> 01:00:20,530
>> there's been a motion made by legislator meyers, who has been seconded by legislator johnson.

588
01:00:22,270 --> 01:00:25,450
on the question. All in favor? >> aye. >> on the question. Roll call.

589
01:00:27,625 --> 01:00:29,155
>> actually, on the question, I thought we were sending this to committee for discussion.

590
01:00:33,490 --> 01:00:35,890
I know that I had a talk with the comptroller about whether or not any recommendations are even binding.

591
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:40,120
so I think it's prudent to have a discussion on what type of

592
01:00:44,650 --> 01:00:44,650
correction happens to be recommended by the control and the committee.

593
01:00:49,990 --> 01:00:53,665
>> thank you. On the question. Legislator barnes. >> thank you, chairman. That is the point.

594
01:00:56,410 --> 01:00:59,485
it is the point of the committee but we are authorizing him to create a plan so it can't come to the committee so then we can't discuss it further.

595
01:01:03,445 --> 01:01:03,445
so we're authorizing here.

596
01:01:08,290 --> 01:01:10,780
this vote is to authorize him to come up with a plan, clock it in, and we'll talk about it in committee.

597
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:17,365
>> are you aware of a report, legislator greene, that you want discussed?

598
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:23,800
>> I'm just thinking right now, just looking at the whole idea

599
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:29,125
of putting together a corrective action plan, I think it is great idea. I just want to get an understanding on whether or not the comptroller's time putting

600
01:01:35,230 --> 01:01:38,170
together an action plan on making recommendations is even something within his current powers right now,

601
01:01:41,500 --> 01:01:45,370
and then we can go back and look at all the different types of audits that have been done. Is this day forward, is this day back?

602
01:01:47,220 --> 01:01:50,895
are we going to be looking at previous audits or future audits? I'd like the idea of having a discussion.

603
01:01:52,650 --> 01:01:55,755
I think that's the first step that we should be taking, is to have that discussion with both the comptroller as well as the county attorney,

604
01:02:02,005 --> 01:02:04,780
to figure out what are our powers and what powers do we want to necessarily have shifted over to the comptroller?

605
01:02:09,100 --> 01:02:12,835
what if he audits us and we don't necessarily agree. The idea that the comptroller is going to have powers that mandate

606
01:02:19,060 --> 01:02:22,660
corrective action is something that we should probably have a much further discussion before we go down this road.

607
01:02:26,785 --> 01:02:29,815
>> you are missing the point. >> any questions for the second time, legislator? >> you're missing the point. That is what we're going to do.

608
01:02:32,365 --> 01:02:35,320
so they are going to have, so it's a plan that's going to be put into place. So if they disagree with the audit,

609
01:02:37,015 --> 01:02:40,570
then part the plan will state that they can come and disagree until they mutually come up with it but that's the whole point.

610
01:02:44,350 --> 01:02:46,990
we're going to put this forward for further discussion. Hopefully, put up some guidelines so there is an actual plan created.

611
01:02:51,295 --> 01:02:53,875
so when an audit is in place that someone doesn't like or won't come up with a plan, they have to.

612
01:02:57,100 --> 01:02:57,100
that's the whole discussion of purpose and I believe just taking this and putting

613
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:04,480
this resolution of committee would initiate the discussion in itself [overlapping] in committee before there's a plan.

614
01:03:07,870 --> 01:03:07,870
>> they're not responding to each other is not really on the question. Go ahead guys.

615
01:03:12,025 --> 01:03:15,775
>> thank you, madam chair. Don't you want a plan? Don't you want to have something to talk about or do you want to do this?

616
01:03:20,230 --> 01:03:22,900
>> you can respond, yes, you guys respond to each other. >> thank you, madam chair. I don't want to disrespect the chair, I apologize.

617
01:03:27,835 --> 01:03:27,835
I think that taking this and putting this into a committee discussion would

618
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:33,880
initiate both what the action plan is and the potential legality of it.

619
01:03:40,570 --> 01:03:44,560
that's the whole idea. It's great if the comptroller can come up with a plan, but I think having the county attorney in there to

620
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:51,430
understand what the scope is about would be true, and I guess that's kind of the direction that I'd like to see this go

621
01:03:55,030 --> 01:03:55,030
is put this into committee for discussion.

622
01:03:59,185 --> 01:04:01,920
>> do you want to come up with the plan? You're not in the committee to have a discussion on that it, that's what I'm saying.

623
01:04:04,595 --> 01:04:07,510
>> by us not asking the comptroller to come up with a plan, that means you're making the plan.

624
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:11,965
I'm not qualified to make the plan, are you? So we're asking who's qualified,

625
01:04:14,335 --> 01:04:18,025
who does the audit to come up with the plan for us to discuss? It's not hard, it's very easy.

626
01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:21,640
>> I'm not making the plan. I'm calling for him to make the plan.

627
01:04:26,690 --> 01:04:29,160
>> so that's going to conclude legislator barnes's response to legislator greenes on the question.

628
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:37,870
so we're going to move on. Do any other members wish to speak on the question? >> yeah, I think we have to

629
01:04:41,500 --> 01:04:45,370
approve it today so the comptroller can't come up with a plan. In fact in banking industry,

630
01:04:48,250 --> 01:04:50,140
you have self-thoughts, you have plans that go to other departments that met out when something happens.

631
01:04:55,465 --> 01:04:55,465
here it is, we have a $326,000 check that they don't know what happened to that.

632
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:09,700
we want to send that motion to committee to talk about what the comptroller should do, as opposed to saying,

633
01:05:13,390 --> 01:05:15,520
hey look comptroller, here you're going to ask you and your department,

634
01:05:18,145 --> 01:05:18,145
the qualified one, to come up with a corrective action plan.

635
01:05:22,500 --> 01:05:25,420
I don't know where most you work at, but I'm sure folks who are running

636
01:05:26,860 --> 01:05:26,860
business have corrective action plans for each varying departments.

637
01:05:31,600 --> 01:05:31,600
in business, people have to have that just in case to vet out any of mistakes.

638
01:05:36,475 --> 01:05:36,475
right now, we have money that they cannot be identified.

639
01:05:42,325 --> 01:05:44,410
they have somebody in investigation, they have a check that went out that was fraud and counterfeit.

640
01:05:47,275 --> 01:05:47,275
you have to have that looked into.

641
01:05:51,745 --> 01:05:51,745
we have to put something in place because we don't know if that's just for the audit.

642
01:05:56,440 --> 01:05:59,650
they get a year's audit. The year's audit was in debt. What if they went back further?

643
01:06:01,180 --> 01:06:01,180
we don't know if this is something that's ongoing or how much they want.

644
01:06:05,260 --> 01:06:08,530
we only have one year audit that caught one transaction. If it wasn't an audit,

645
01:06:12,940 --> 01:06:12,940
we wouldn't have caught that check or know if there's something that has been wrong.

646
01:06:17,100 --> 01:06:17,100
so I think if we have to send this to the committee,

647
01:06:21,220 --> 01:06:21,220
we have to send this to approval today so that comptroller can get to work on it,

648
01:06:26,410 --> 01:06:26,410
they can bring something back forth to clockton and have a viable discussion about this.

649
01:06:30,610 --> 01:06:34,030
just my thoughts. >> thank you, legislator. [overlapping]. >> I think I can clear this up.

650
01:06:36,955 --> 01:06:40,195
it was just pointed out to me. So communication 4d-10. The action plan is going to finance the management committee.

651
01:06:44,920 --> 01:06:48,100
so it's already here. So we are going to have the discussion about. You good with that? 4d-10. It's already going to committee the plan.

652
01:06:55,200 --> 01:06:57,490
so we're approving this action, authorizing it and the reported is then going to committee 4d-10.

653
01:07:03,780 --> 01:07:06,895
>> okay, yes, let's say it's darrel for the first time.

654
01:07:08,860 --> 01:07:11,815
>> yeah, I'd like to just say, isn't the legislature, are we the correct body?

655
01:07:16,110 --> 01:07:18,580
if I'm not mistaken, if the comptroller has an issue,

656
01:07:20,290 --> 01:07:22,210
if he presents it to our body, then we make the correct look.

657
01:07:42,270 --> 01:07:42,270
I just wanted to clarify where we're going with that. Thank you.

658
01:07:47,845 --> 01:07:47,845
>> on the question.

659
01:07:53,730 --> 01:07:56,755
>> on the motion to approve this, we're going to just have a roll call vote, madam clerk.

660
01:07:59,365 --> 01:08:02,680
>> on the motion to approve, legislator greene? >> yes to explain my vote. It seems very obvious as legislator bargnesi just pointed

661
01:08:07,870 --> 01:08:10,270
out that we've already got something going to committee that's going to be in the discussion specifically regarding this.

662
01:08:12,970 --> 01:08:15,700
then we're really voting on no action whatsoever. We're voting on what's ultimately

663
01:08:17,710 --> 01:08:19,825
a useless resolution because it's already moving forward on its own with or without this resolution.

664
01:08:22,825 --> 01:08:22,825
to me, it's an absolute waste. I'll vote no.

665
01:08:27,340 --> 01:08:30,430
>> thank you. Legislator lorigo, not present. Legislator mills? Todaro?

666
01:08:36,025 --> 01:08:39,085
>> no. >> bargnesi? >> no, I mean yes there's more on this, isn't it?

667
01:08:43,615 --> 01:08:45,580
it was clocked in three times. That's all it is.

668
01:08:48,700 --> 01:08:52,330
>> thank you, sir. Legislator baskin? >> yes. >> gilmour? >> yes.

669
01:08:52,885 --> 01:08:56,875
>> johnson? >> yes. >> kooshoian? >> yes. >> meyers? >> yes.

670
01:08:57,565 --> 01:09:00,250
>> vinal? >> yes. >> the vote is 7-3. This motion passes.

671
01:09:01,585 --> 01:09:05,080
>> the motion carries and the resolution is approved. Continuing on with our agenda. Communications discharged from committee.

672
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:11,520
communication discharge from committee, majority leader meyers?

673
01:09:16,210 --> 01:09:19,285
>> thank you, madam chair. I have the three discharges. Move to discharge communication 2e-1 from the economic development committee.

674
01:09:24,775 --> 01:09:28,540
>> there's been a proper motion to discharge communication 2e-1 made by legislator meyers and the second?

675
01:09:34,015 --> 01:09:34,015
seconded by minority leader mills. All in favor?

676
01:09:38,725 --> 01:09:42,550
>> aye. [overlapping] >> any opposed? >> 10-0. >> the motion carries. The item is now before the legislature. Mr. Meyers?

677
01:09:45,730 --> 01:09:48,430
>> thank you, madam chair, move to approve the item. >> second. >> there's been a proper motion to approve the item made by the majority leader.

678
01:09:52,135 --> 01:09:55,990
it's been seconded by legislator gilmour. All in favor? >> aye. [overlapping] >> any opposed?

679
01:09:57,010 --> 01:09:58,210
>> 10-0. >> the motion carries. The item is approved. Legislator meyers?

680
01:10:01,735 --> 01:10:03,520
>> thank you, madam chair. Move to discharge communication 16e-19 from the energy environment committee.

681
01:10:07,710 --> 01:10:07,710
>> there's been a proper motion to discharge item

682
01:10:11,970 --> 01:10:15,540
16e-19 made by the majority leader and it's been seconded by legislator gilmour. All in favor?

683
01:10:18,420 --> 01:10:20,925
>> aye. [overlapping] >> any opposed? >> 10-0. >> the motion carries and the item is now before the body. Majority leader?

684
01:10:24,335 --> 01:10:24,335
>> thank you madam chair. Move to amend communication 16e-19 with what's been passed out.

685
01:10:28,720 --> 01:10:30,790
>> there's been a proper motion to amend the item with what's been passed out made by the majority leader.

686
01:10:32,890 --> 01:10:36,640
it has been seconded by legislator gilmour. All in favor? >> aye. [overlapping]

687
01:10:37,540 --> 01:10:39,280
>> any opposed? >> 10-0. >> the motion carries. The item is now amended. Majority leader?

688
01:10:42,700 --> 01:10:44,290
>> move to approve as amended. >> there's been a proper motion to approve the item as amended made by

689
01:10:47,950 --> 01:10:51,400
the majority leader has been seconded by legislator johnson. All in favor? >> aye. [overlapping].

690
01:10:52,030 --> 01:10:55,720
>> any opposed? >> 10-0. >> the item is approved as amended. Majority leader, you have the floor.

691
01:10:57,280 --> 01:10:59,890
>> thank you, madam chair. I move to this charged communication 2e-23 from the energy environment committee.

692
01:11:02,080 --> 01:11:04,375
>> there's been a proper motion made by the majority leader. It's been seconded by legislator gilmour. All in favor?

693
01:11:08,110 --> 01:11:10,765
>> aye. [overlapping] >> any opposed? >> 10-0. >> carried unanimously.

694
01:11:12,610 --> 01:11:14,635
I'm sorry. The motion carries. The item is now before the legislature.

695
01:11:17,410 --> 01:11:21,160
majority leader, you have the floor. >> thank you, madam chair. Move to amend communication 2e-23 with what's been passed out.

696
01:11:24,160 --> 01:11:26,260
>> second. >> there has been a proper motion to amend the item with what's been passed out made by the majority leader.

697
01:11:28,600 --> 01:11:31,900
it's been seconded by legislator gilmour. All in favor? >> aye. [overlapping] >> any opposed.

698
01:11:32,740 --> 01:11:33,580
>> 10-0? >> the motion carries. The item is now amended. Majority leader?

699
01:11:37,165 --> 01:11:37,165
>> thank you, madam chair. Move to approve communication to 2e-23 as amended.

700
01:11:41,230 --> 01:11:43,210
>> there has been a proper motion to approve the item as amended made by the majority leader.

701
01:11:46,045 --> 01:11:46,045
it's been seconded by legislator gilmour. All in favor?

702
01:11:50,260 --> 01:11:52,570
>> aye. [overlapping]. >> any opposed? >>10-0. >> the item is approved as amended.

703
01:11:54,460 --> 01:11:58,210
suspension of the rules. Mr. Meyers will go first. >> thank you, madam chair. I have three suspensions today.

704
01:12:00,760 --> 01:12:00,760
the first is from legislator gilmour a lease agreement for his legislative office space.

705
01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:08,170
>> madam clerk? >> communication 4e-30. >> meyers?

706
01:12:09,850 --> 01:12:13,000
>> thank you, madam chair. Move for immediate consideration and approval. >> second. >> this item is up for immediate consideration and approval made by the majority leader.

707
01:12:17,440 --> 01:12:21,010
it has been seconded by legislator johnson. All in favor? >> aye. [overlapping] any opposed?

708
01:12:22,420 --> 01:12:25,320
>> 10-0. >> abstained. >> one abstention.

709
01:12:27,370 --> 01:12:29,455
>> 9-0 to 1. >> the motion carries. The item is approved.

710
01:12:32,410 --> 01:12:35,380
>> majority leader? >> thank you, madam chair. The next is from chair baskin. Appointment to the erie county agricultural and farm land protection board.

711
01:12:38,710 --> 01:12:42,025
>> madam clerk. >> communication 4e-31. >> mr. Meyers.

712
01:12:43,525 --> 01:12:46,690
>> move for immediate consideration and approval. >> there has been a proper motion for immediate consideration and approval made by the majority leader,

713
01:12:49,390 --> 01:12:53,380
it's been seconded by legislator gilmour. All in favor? >> aye. [overlapping] >> any opposed? >> 10-0.

714
01:12:54,235 --> 01:12:58,210
>> the motion carries. The item is approved. Majority leader? >> thank you, madam chair. The final suspension is from legislator mills and gilmour,

715
01:13:00,730 --> 01:13:04,465
erie county soil and water conservation district board of directors appointment. >> madam clerk?

716
01:13:05,500 --> 01:13:08,280
>> intro 4-3. >> majority leader?

717
01:13:10,180 --> 01:13:13,945
>> move for immediate consideration and approval. >> there has been a proper motion made by the majority leader. It's been seconded by legislator greene.

718
01:13:16,165 --> 01:13:19,885
I'm sorry. There's no question. All in favor? >> aye. [overlapping] >> any opposed? >> 10-0.

719
01:13:21,070 --> 01:13:23,920
>> the motion carries and the item is approved. Legislator vinal, I'll recognize you for the purpose of suspensions.

720
01:13:28,650 --> 01:13:28,650
>> move to suspend a resolution referring

721
01:13:32,890 --> 01:13:36,700
the thefts of erie county clerk's office to the federal white collar crimes unit. I would ask it to be,

722
01:13:37,990 --> 01:13:41,860
there was a discussion amongst the legislatures and there's a factual issue on it that we need to

723
01:13:43,750 --> 01:13:46,810
address because it's different memories of what happened. I'd ask that be referred to finance and management.

724
01:13:49,195 --> 01:13:52,410
>> has everybody seen this item? Suspensions are not debatable.

725
01:13:56,910 --> 01:13:58,960
if there's no debate, I guess just under my authority as chair and I'll send it to finance and management.

726
01:14:02,440 --> 01:14:05,890
I think there are no objections. Communication number? >> intro 4-4.

727
01:14:07,210 --> 01:14:09,790
>> it's intro 4-4 and it will be designated to the finance and management committee under my authority as chair.

728
01:14:13,600 --> 01:14:15,580
continuing on with our agenda. Communications from elected officials?

729
01:14:17,725 --> 01:14:20,920
yes. Questions? >> you can go ahead. >>legislator greene?

730
01:14:22,285 --> 01:14:22,285
>> I have a suspension to hand in regarding legislator lorigo's absence today.

731
01:14:28,930 --> 01:14:32,220
>> we are still on suspensions. This suspension is regarding the absence of the legislator,

732
01:14:35,710 --> 01:14:39,535
madam clerk item number? >> communication 4e-32. >> this item will be received, filed,

733
01:14:41,170 --> 01:14:44,620
and printed under my authority as chair. Continuing on with our agenda. Communications from elected officials.

734
01:14:46,390 --> 01:14:46,390
communication 4e-1 through and including communication 4e-29 as indicated.

735
01:14:51,565 --> 01:14:53,110
communication from the departments. Communication 4d-1 through including communication 4d-6 as indicated.

736
01:14:58,435 --> 01:15:00,580
communications from the people and other agencies. Communication 4m-1 through and including communication 4m-6 as indicated.

737
01:15:05,680 --> 01:15:05,680
announcements. Next week there is a break for the legislature.

738
01:15:09,775 --> 01:15:09,775
we will conduct committee meetings in two weeks on thursday, february 29.

739
01:15:15,115 --> 01:15:18,625
the schedule will be sent out next friday, february 23rd. The next scheduled session of the erie county legislature is thursday, march 7.

740
01:15:24,355 --> 01:15:26,965
are there any other announcements? Please stand if you are able for

741
01:15:29,470 --> 01:15:29,470
memorial resolutions. Legislator todaro?

742
01:15:38,860 --> 01:15:38,860
>> thank you, madam chair. I move to adjourn in the memory of sylvia gargano,

743
01:15:44,830 --> 01:15:44,830
robert [inaudible] and a dear friend of mine, giovanni falcone.

744
01:15:50,130 --> 01:15:50,130
>> we are sorry for your loss legislator. Legislator vinal?

745
01:15:54,730 --> 01:15:54,730
>> I'd like to move to close in memory of peter berger,

746
01:15:58,975 --> 01:16:02,695
longtime resident of western new york at amherst. He had a long career in finances and too died recently leaving many grandchildren.

747
01:16:09,010 --> 01:16:12,220
>> sorry for your loss. Legislator mills? >> thank you, madam chair. I'd like to adjourn the memory of brian

748
01:16:15,250 --> 01:16:18,445
[inaudible] and sheila merrill. >> we are sorry for your lost legislator.

749
01:16:21,265 --> 01:16:21,265
madam clerk. I'd like to adjourn in the memory of joanne wiley.

750
01:16:25,750 --> 01:16:25,750
she's my older cousin who just found out moments ago that she passed away last night.

751
01:16:30,505 --> 01:16:30,505
she's the older sister of longtime community servant

752
01:16:34,525 --> 01:16:34,525
and swat command leader for the buffalo pd, cedric holloway,

753
01:16:39,070 --> 01:16:42,310
and the oldest child of community activists in 1970's youth board commissioner johnny b. Wiley and she will be missed.

754
01:16:49,525 --> 01:16:49,525
a moment of silence for those that have gone on to be with the lord.

755
01:17:00,930 --> 01:17:04,315
amen, I'll entertain a motion to adjourn. >> so moved. >> motion to adjourn by legislator johnson.

756
01:17:06,490 --> 01:17:10,315
second by legislator gilmour. All in favor? >> aye. >> any opposed? >> 10-0. >> we stand adjourned.