[0:07] Why don't you go ahead and
[0:12] Good evening everybody. Um I'm glad
you're all here. Um this is the
[0:18] September meeting of the Essex Energy
Committee. A little bit hastily warned,
[0:22] but we got it in on time, but I forgot
to send everybody invite. So, apologies
[0:27] for that. glad that you all could make
it. Um, so we have a special guest
[0:34] tonight and I thought actually I guess
what we'll do, let me just bring up our
[0:39] um minutes. Hi Gita.
Um actually we'll just state for the
[0:45] record in attendance are uh Will Dodge
the chair Sean McNamera who's the
[0:49] municipal representative Katie Shadic
who's the vice chair uh our guest Dylan
[0:54] GM Batisa from Vermont Gas Ken Good now
is new member uh Gita Ganon and online
[1:02] we have uh Natalie Braun um who's
joining by phone and Rod Williams who's
[1:09] on via video and this meeting is being
>> maybe it's being transcribed multiple
[1:14] times but one way or the other we will
have minutes at the end of the day. So
[1:19] um so welcome everyone. Uh first thing I
think we should do uh is approval of
[1:25] minutes from 812
which Natalie you were kind enough to
[1:31] produce. Um, everybody have a chance to
look at those or anything? Anybody want
[1:36] to say anything about them such as move
to admit or move to uh
[1:43] » approve? Move to admit.
>> Okay. Any seconds?
[1:48] » Okay. Uh, all in favor?
>> I.
[1:54] » And all opposed.
Okay. Very good. Well, thank you. So,
[1:59] those are approved and we'll get those
in Sean to um uh to make Yep. to make
[2:04] sure that those are recorded. Now, on
the agenda, I had put work plan to be
[2:09] distributed in advance of meeting. But I
think what I'm going to do um is instead
[2:15] go to our first item, which is actually
we have it put in the meeting as
[2:19] president presentation from Spencer Dole
at Vermont Gas, but instead we're going
[2:24] to let Dylan take the stage. And Dylan,
you've been here before, so you know,
[2:29] you you know us
>> reasonably well. And you were
[2:33] representing you were representing the
town in the state legislature for how
[2:38] long was that?
>> So I represented what when when we had a
[2:40] village in a town.
>> That's right.
[2:42] » I represented a district in A2, which
was primarily here in the village
[2:46] center, but this was part of the
district. And so sadly I haven't been in
[2:50] this building in about five years
because I'm now resident Wahwa of the
[2:54] city which is actually from my
perspective sort of a lost opportunity
[2:57] for our community. But I'll set that
aside for the moment. I don't want to
[3:00] get into the the turf wars.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just gonna blow
[3:05] things up here. Um but nevertheless, I
served four years in the legislature
[3:09] where I was actually primarily focused
on education policy. And then um shortly
[3:13] after that COVID time started, I was
actually a finalist to be a municipal
[3:17] manager uh in the state in another
community and I was approached by
[3:21] someone who I didn't know that well, but
the new president of Vermont Gas, Neil
[3:25] Lenderbilt, was interesting resume and
government service and he had run
[3:29] Burlington Electric Department and he
was brought into Vermont Gas at that
[3:32] time in part to try to think about if a
company that primarily has served
[3:36] natural gas could operationalize some of
the policy that we need to reduce
[3:40] emissions in the state. And so for the
past five and a half years, I've been
[3:44] working as part of that team. And my um
portfolio includes a lot of outreach,
[3:48] regulatory affairs, things of that
nature. And actually, the primary reason
[3:51] that I'm here with you tonight, um I I
want to be courteous of your time. So I
[3:55] wasn't sure if you had an amount of time
because I we do have a regulatory um
[3:59] process underway that I'm seeking input
on from this committee. All the input
[4:03] doesn't need to come tonight, but it's
part of our integrated resource plan,
[4:06] which is a process that all distribution
utilities in the state of electric
[4:10] utilities, uh, and in our case, the lone
natural gas utility are subject to as
[4:15] regulated entities by the state of
Vermont's public utility commission. So,
[4:19] every three years, we need to go around
stakeholders and discuss with them um
[4:24] their objectives in terms of development
opportunities, and we take a look at our
[4:28] resource um uh our resource allocation.
So both supply for electricity and in
[4:34] the case of a gas utility gas supply and
the needs of the region basically. So I
[4:39] I came here tonight to give you a quick
update on that to give you a snapshot of
[4:43] what we're doing but also to hear from
you about if there are priorities that
[4:45] you see um and you know not to steal my
own thunder on this as I get going but
[4:50] um the integrative resource plan is not
very uh exciting but I'll do my best
[4:55] with it. So Will, how much time do you
want me to go for because I don't want
[4:57] to take a lot of your time. and you
looked like you had
[4:59] » Well, I think I we'd love to see your
presentation and then I think that we
[5:02] definitely have one priority in
particular that we want to talk to you
[5:06] about.
>> Okay, great.
[5:07] » Um, so excellent, but I think you can
tell us.
[5:10] » Yeah. And I'll just say it says that
it's not set up for sharing.
[5:13] » Oh, yeah. Yeah. I was just going to do
you want to do that? The little triangle
[5:17] there.
>> Actually, hit the triangle next to it,
[5:21] Sean.
>> Sorry. Yeah, it's
[5:28] to cancel. Yeah. Now, yeah, multiple
participants can share simultaneously.
[5:34] » All right, there we go.
>> It's been a while since I've actually
[5:37] shared in Zoom, so hopefully I don't.
>> Yeah, try that and see if that works.
[5:41] » All right, let's give this a whirl here
and I'll It's looking promising. I'll
[5:44] make a go of it as best I can. All
right, what do we got here? Great. That
[5:50] coming up yet?
There we go. Sorry, I'm on like a I use
[5:55] a sort of a shared network for this just
utility security that we go through. All
[6:01] right, just one moment. Here we go. I'm
going to try to make this full screen.
[6:04] It might lag out a little, but
fortunately, we don't need to worry too
[6:06] much about that. So, I'm providing you
this update um on our activities as a
[6:12] regulated utility. As I said, and
there's there's a lot of information in
[6:15] this slide deck. I don't know that I'm
going to go through it all, but at the
[6:18] highest level, Vermont Gas, if you are a
natural gas customer, you probably know
[6:22] us. We've served the region for 60
years. Um we have about 56,000 customers
[6:28] across northwest Vermont. That's
Franklin, Chitten and Addison County
[6:31] with the bulk here in Chitten County. Um
and what sets us apart a little bit from
[6:35] some of our peer utilities across the
country is in addition to being a
[6:38] regulated distribution utility. In other
words, a natural gas distribution
[6:42] utility. Um, we also are an energy
efficiency utility and have for several
[6:46] decades provided services what we call
behind the meter inside of customers
[6:51] homes and premises whether commercial,
industrial, residential. We've been
[6:55] working inside of their homes servicing
equipment and recently installing
[6:58] different types of equipment. So, this
has been a long history that we've had
[7:02] and um what really sets us apart is that
about 40% of our workforce work with
[7:06] customers every day. So, we're not just
working in the right ofway with your
[7:10] public works department. We're working
in different ways with different
[7:13] building stock. Um, quick overview here.
I mentioned that we have about 56,000
[7:19] um, families and businesses that we
serve in Northwest Vermont. We basically
[7:23] are taking all the premises that we
serve. So, many of those might have
[7:25] multiple occupants. So, I won't get into
that too much. Um, but to give you the
[7:29] snapshot, we operate about 900 miles of
distribution infrastructure. That's the
[7:34] pipe under the ground that brings gas
into customers homes. We have 118 miles
[7:38] of transmission infrastructure and
through our energy efficiency work, we
[7:42] do about 2,000 efficiency improvements
annually. Um, I'm going to skip past the
[7:47] I have a slide on a timeline that I'm
going to go right past to jump ahead.
[7:51] Um, just to give you the the quick
overview here. And I see my computer's
[7:55] lagging, but it will do its best here.
Um, sorry, it might be my internet
[7:59] service, so just give me a second. I'm
on a hot spot for reasons I don't know,
[8:03] but it'll eventually catch up. Um, in
short, I'll I'll just share that since
[8:08] 1992, we have um done a portfolio of
energy efficiency work that has
[8:13] facilitated 44,000
energy efficiency improvements. I'm
[8:17] going to skip over this slide. It'll
eventually get there. Sorry, it's just
[8:20] lagged out. Um, and and those efficiency
improvements, as you no doubt know, as
[8:24] an energy efficiency
focused committee, save a lot of money.
[8:30] So, we have paid out incentives of over
$33 million since 1992. And the
[8:35] cumulative gas savings that is the gas
that we have not sold because of that is
[8:39] over $273 million. So this is big bucks
when you break it down. The
[8:44] year-over-year savings that it grew to
our customers are considerable. Um since
[8:48] 2016, that's when we became one of the
state's energy efficiency utilities. We
[8:52] have served about 2,000 uh customers
annually. And you can see some of the
[8:57] big numbers about how much we've saved.
It's a significant amount of money and
[9:00] and reduced uh emissions. All of which
is good for Vermont, its energy goals,
[9:06] and I'm sure those that you're looking
out for here in the town. Um, my slides
[9:10] will eventually catch up here, but I'm
about to show you a slide that includes
[9:14] a map of where our infrastructure is
located. So, this is the gas
[9:18] infrastructure that we operate under the
ground. It includes uh a transmission
[9:22] line which extends down south. And then
there's all this distribution
[9:26] infrastructure as well feeding different
businesses, you know, whether it's the
[9:29] Essex shops, uh, or up into different
residential communities. Schools are on
[9:34] this list. Um, and of that, we have
about 3600 customers. Uh, one thing on
[9:39] this that I called out to my colleague
who put this together is incorrect. It
[9:42] says 18 residential units are
weatherized since 2016. There's no way
[9:45] that's right. I think it's because when
the two communities split, um, the way
[9:50] that they were cataloging the data,
there must have been some sort of a data
[9:54] error there. I'm guessing that it's much
closer to probably about 200 in the town
[9:58] that we've facilitated based on
comparable community sizes. And we've
[10:02] done I do think the equipment upgrades
is a little more accurate. We've done
[10:05] 128 of those types of upgrades. And then
one thing I'll call your attention to
[10:09] here is that uh back at the start of the
decade we in we started installing heat
[10:14] pumps. First heat pump water heaters
then centrally ducted heat pumps which
[10:17] is an appliance that you incorporate
into a furnace in an existing hot air
[10:21] system or uh you can use that for
heating or cooling. And then also mini
[10:25] splits. We started the mini splits
closer to 2023. And you can see we only
[10:30] had four heat pumps installed in Essex
in 2024 through 25. So the ramp rates
[10:36] been a little slow, but what happens and
what we're seeing now is there's this
[10:39] opportunity to market them particularly
in summer. You know, people are thinking
[10:42] about heat pumps primarily for cooling,
but of course for many they're very
[10:47] viable heating solution for their home
depending on the building type. So we
[10:51] expect to see more rapid adoption and
we're we're starting some new programs
[10:55] um and marketing to try to get the word
out about
[10:59] » Hey Dylan. Yes. on that. I appreciate
very much you saying that that
[11:03] correction on the residential units. Is
it possible for you to send that final
[11:08] number to us because we are working on
our energy plan and that would be a
[11:13] great stat to know to plug into that.
>> Are you doing a town plan revision right
[11:16] now? I know we are under
>> it's it is a standalone energy plan.
[11:22] » Or an enhanced energy plan, right? An
act 176.
[11:25] » Yeah. So I will tell you um this is this
is a good point of information to share
[11:30] with you.
>> Some communities like to work directly
[11:34] with our efficiency team on program
design for different types of outreach
[11:38] options that we can do. So, we've had
really successful partnerships in
[11:42] particularly in the city of Burlington
and the city of South Burlington who
[11:46] have adopted uh ordinances that actually
focus on decarbonization,
[11:51] weatherization, um and other primary
renewable heating type ordinances. So,
[11:56] they they've put in place actual policy
at the municipal level. But the reason I
[12:00] bring it up is because some of those
communities also have staffed up with um
[12:03] like an energy coordinator um or in the
case of Burlington, they they actually
[12:08] have pretty robust building permitting.
I know that's not the case in a lot of
[12:11] municipalities. Um but there are ways
that we can share data with you that's
[12:16] actually a little more granular about
the usage, the profiles of your
[12:20] buildings. And I don't want to
overpromise, but our efficiency utility
[12:23] does have the ability to work with your
staff or with your energy committee to
[12:27] get you a lot of information. So if
you're working on a plan, we can
[12:30] certainly work on that with you.
>> Okay.
[12:32] » Yeah. So lots of opportunities for
collaboration,
[12:34] » right?
>> Yeah.
[12:36] » All right. This is still lagging a
little bit as my little device here
[12:40] tries to find the internet through the
clouds. Um but we'll eventually get
[12:43] there. The the reason that I'm here
tonight, first of all, I welcome any
[12:46] input or any questions you have. Um you
know, municipalities are really
[12:50] important stakeholders in energy
planning, increasingly so with the role
[12:54] of energy committees and different types
of enhanced energy plans. some of the
[12:57] work going on with the regional planning
commissions. But our integrated resource
[13:01] plan, as I've already previewed, it's
essentially a 20-year roadmap for
[13:05] resource allocation. And traditionally,
this process, which is overseen by our
[13:10] regulators, was really about how many
customers are you going to add? In the
[13:14] case of electricity, it would be how
many electric customers are you going to
[13:17] add, how much electricity can you
procure, what does that look like in the
[13:20] future for your customers. Same in the
gas system. At the simplest level, this
[13:25] process historically has been about how
you meet new customers energy needs
[13:29] while balancing those um balancing the
costs and then increasingly in the last
[13:33] couple decades, how are you going to
mitigate environmental impacts. So
[13:38] recently we've been looking toward the
state's comprehensive energy plan which
[13:42] is about to undergo a revision. They do
that I think it's every six years. Um
[13:46] and I will share that in 2024 the
addition that we put together of this
[13:50] integrated resource plan really trade
changed from some of that traditional
[13:54] planning where we then began to focus a
bit more on carbon reduction pathways
[13:59] which was consistent with state energy
policy. Um this time around we're
[14:03] looking at that we're also thinking
about resilience reliability and that
[14:07] relates to both physical infrastructure
and cyber um which is probably no
[14:11] surprise to you if you've been following
the news. Um, we're also really focused
[14:15] on geothermal development, which is
something that we would be happy to
[14:18] discuss with you. I saw you have some
information in your meeting agenda
[14:22] packet. So, lots to discuss there, and
I'm happy to tell you about what we're
[14:25] doing. Um, in short though, what I'm
here with you tonight is to ask you some
[14:31] feedback on these three scenario plans
that we're presenting to you. All the
[14:35] feedback doesn't need to come tonight.
You all could review it offline. Send an
[14:38] informal note to me. I'd be happy to
take it. But essentially we are working
[14:42] through three planning scenarios for
this edition of this planning process.
[14:48] The first is a baseline scenario where
we're looking at the current state of
[14:51] policy. We continue to work on our
existing um energy programs which
[14:56] include again natural gas delivery,
installation and maintenance of heat
[15:00] pumps, energy efficiency incentives for
weatherization and other things and now
[15:04] some geothermal work that we're doing.
But we don't assume that there's a
[15:08] policy that's coming from the state that
actually is mandating us to change
[15:12] considerably. So we would continue to
provide these types of services. There's
[15:16] also um some existing programs that we
get into and and I don't want to go too
[15:20] far um over my skis with the short
amount of time we have, but essentially
[15:25] we we have a supply of natural gas that
we need to clean up over time to lower
[15:30] the carbon intensity of the fuel that's
in that pipe for distribution customers
[15:34] using a combustion based system. And so
all of this in the baseline scenario is
[15:38] essentially looking at our planning and
saying things aren't going to change
[15:42] that much except we're going to see new
customers added because there's this
[15:45] huge p push to do development and add
housing in particular. So that's
[15:50] scenario number one that we model and
look at. The second is what we call a
[15:54] moderate gas reduction scenario. And
this is where we continue to see more
[15:58] strategic electrification in the region
and at the state level. Um, and
[16:02] continued adoption of renewable fuels in
place of traditional natural gas. This
[16:07] focuses on a lot of hybrid heating
setups where you're going to have heat
[16:11] pumps in play working in tandem with
people who already have combustion
[16:15] systems. Um, it's also taking a look at
really rapid construction of residential
[16:20] properties over the next 10 years in
line with some of the state targets
[16:23] which are pretty rosy. I don't think
it's going to move that quick. But
[16:26] nevertheless, this sees more
electrification in the scenario and it's
[16:30] something that we model out to test what
would happen to our existing gas
[16:34] customers if there was a lot more
electrification.
[16:37] » The final scenario that we're modeling
is the third one. This is a really
[16:40] significant decarbonization scenario in
which we assume that no new residential
[16:46] construction will be using any form of
combustion. It would all be electrified.
[16:51] So this is a scenario where we are
assuming no new gas growth or any
[16:54] combustion growth in the state. But
we're only modeling for gas in the
[16:57] region we serve. And it's assuming that
these aggressive carbon reduction
[17:01] policies are implemented and that there
state programs to support them at a very
[17:05] fast pace to keep up with all the new
construction that's forecast. It also we
[17:10] look at here I won't get too into it but
industrial and interruptible loads.
[17:14] These are the largest commercial and
industrial loads like a global
[17:17] foundaries or you know maybe you have gl
or something. it's sort of assuming that
[17:22] they can be um electrified over time as
well which is can be quite challenging
[17:28] depending on the use of processed fuels
and other high um demand technologies.
[17:34] So I present you these three and the
most simplest terms I can think of is
[17:37] one is the status quo, two is the state
getting behind more electrification but
[17:43] not banning things outright. Three is if
you were to ban uh any form of
[17:48] combustion in the state and we're just
going all electric. And so we present
[17:52] these scenarios and try to get feedback
in part because we try to develop um the
[17:56] different models and scenario planning
where we can go to regulators and say
[17:59] here's what we heard, here's what we
have modeled for and here's what is
[18:03] reflective of stakeholder input. So I've
been to about 12 communities before
[18:07] this. I've heard a range of opinions
stretching from Swanton to, you know,
[18:12] down in Addison County, Vens. I mean
there there's a whole range of opinions
[18:16] about what we ought to do in this space
and I I don't want to put all this to
[18:21] you now but I have a series of questions
but I I just wonder if before we leave
[18:25] these are there any of these scenarios
that you see playing a role in Essex
[18:30] recognizing both the moment that we're
in in terms of where state policy stands
[18:34] because candidly there is no thermal
energy policy framework to move us
[18:39] forward right now. We had a clean heat
standard lawmakers chose not to
[18:42] implement it. So we don't actually have
a performance standard guiding reduction
[18:46] of greenhouse gas emissions in the
thermal sector as we do in the electric
[18:49] sector with the renewable energy
standard. So we're sort of operating
[18:52] without a clear statewide policy
framework. On the other hand, we have
[18:56] communities like South Burlington and
Burlington that are moving very quickly
[19:01] toward renewables policy
>> which and then we have all this old
[19:04] housing stock that we're trying to
figure out what do we do with it while
[19:07] we also bring online new housing much of
which can be electrified. So I put that
[19:12] to you. Do any of these scenarios stand
out? I'm I'm sort of all yours, Will. I
[19:15] don't know how you would want to run
this, but I'm I'm just interested in
[19:18] feedback.
>> Yeah. Well, oh, I'm just going to open
[19:20] it up to the floor. Do you have any
thoughts about it?
[19:26] » Well, I'm I love my gas stove, so I
can't keep it up. Yeah. So, I'm thinking
[19:32] moderate. Start with that. And that way
um you're not completely
[19:40] making a huge change and bringing on new
construction with electrification but at
[19:44] the same time keeping the rest of the
infrastructure going.
[19:49] Um but I do like the idea of like um the
in industrial intra loads but um I don't
[19:59] know with the with everything with
electric charges going up these days I
[20:05] don't know how much of that is going to
>> be accepted by the public at this point.
[20:12] It's going to be
>> Yeah, I think
[20:14] » there's going to change coming in that
yeah perspective.
[20:17] » I think you have to make a real case
that the electric heating is
[20:23] is going to be more cost effective or at
least competitive with the natural gas,
[20:29] » right?
>> It's going up 5.5% again in October.
[20:32] That'll put it at 18.11%
increase since 2024 till now.
[20:37] » Yep.
>> And we're barely holding the grid
[20:39] together as it is. If everything goes
electric, where are we going to get that
[20:44] electricity?
[20:48] » Natalie, any persp or Rod, any
perspective from you guys?
[20:54] » I would say the moderate is a good
aspiration.
[20:59] » Sorry, Rod. Can you speak up just a bit?
>> Yep. Um, you know, I think the
[21:05] moderate's a good aspiration. Um, we
need to obviously we need to do more
[21:09] than a baseline, but we need to be
realistic about what we can accomplish.
[21:14] Um, and you know, while I'm sure some of
us are interested in number three, we
[21:22] have to recognize what the the appetite
is out there.
[21:29] » Thank you, Rod. Natalie, how about you?
I'd be the one person of course that is
[21:36] leaning heavily toward scenario three uh
being uh you know the person deeply
[21:43] concerned about um the climate uh what
was the timeline on this is aspirational
[21:50] over how many years are we talking?
>> Yeah, thanks Natalie. Uh so this is a
[21:56] three we update the plan every three
years. We look out over we look out over
[22:01] a 20-year horizon for the modeling
scenarios. But it's really interesting
[22:06] and and the state learned a great deal
about this when it looked at a clean
[22:10] heat standard and when it's looked at
other policy. There's an ordering of um
[22:15] steps to electrify existing housing
stock. You know, sort of the loading
[22:20] order of steps. So, um all of that it's
sort of factoring what is most cost
[22:24] effective upfront and what gets the most
bang for your buck over a lifetime. And
[22:29] that's that's what the state has been
trying to assess and and they do it
[22:32] through their efficiency programs as
well as they look at the efficacy of
[22:36] weatherization, heat pumps, replacement
fuels, replacement systems. It's all
[22:41] about what gets you the most bang for
your buck over the long haul in part. I
[22:45] hope that's helpful.
>> Yeah, it is. I just, you know, if if
[22:50] you're looking for a a um just a general
taste of what folks are saying across
[22:56] the state, my guess is at least uh you
know, I I I certainly hear what the
[23:01] other committee members are are saying.
Absolutely. With regard to what is um
[23:06] you know, might what might be
attainable. Um my my view is let's
[23:12] attain as much as we possibly can for
decarbonization. Yeah. low emission, you
[23:18] know, low emission energy sources.
[23:25] » Yeah. I mean, I guess, you know, there's
a part of me that really likes the push
[23:29] for like do as much as possible like
Natalie was saying, but then I'm also
[23:33] realistic and what can be achieved and
how do you have the most buy in um what
[23:40] works with the things that we already
have. So uh one example is this kind of
[23:44] pushpull between making sure that we are
doing the best for the climate but then
[23:49] also like how do you not do other things
that are going to have kind of
[23:55] downstream effects. So like right now I
could go out and I could buy like the
[23:58] most energy efficient car possible but
instead I'm still driving a 20-year-old
[24:02] car because I also know that consumerism
is horrible and I don't want this car
[24:06] that still works to just go in the trash
>> um because that's also not efficient. So
[24:12] there is like how do we make new things
as efficient as possible and then deal
[24:17] with the existing structures that we
have to make them feasibly as efficient
[24:22] as they could possibly be knowing that
some are just not going to be up to
[24:28] snuff.
>> Yeah. Yeah. uh really good like there's
[24:32] excellent feedback all around and heard
um and I will just share that it's it's
[24:37] really interesting because um I have had
a number of discussions over the years
[24:42] about what to do with the gas system
generally um and so I'll just call out a
[24:48] couple things about our system. So we
are connected um through a Canadian
[24:51] pipeline. So all our supply comes from
Canada. And what's interesting about
[24:55] that is that in recent years, we've
heard about the grid in the Northeast in
[24:59] particular. You all are high you're high
knowledge people. So you probably know
[25:04] in the energy space the electric grid um
our utilities are obligated to um reduce
[25:10] the carbon intensity of their supply by
buying credits and that's sort of an
[25:14] accepted conventional part of energy
markets in the region. Um a lot of their
[25:19] supply is coming from New England. some
critique that credit system because on a
[25:22] really cold winter's day or a really hot
summer's day when there's high demands
[25:26] on the grid, they're using natural gas
for electricity supply in part. Um, and
[25:30] you know, there's there's plenty of
discussion that could go on around that.
[25:34] The thing about the gas system that's
interesting for our customers being
[25:37] having Canadian gas, it's been really
plentiful. Now, knock on wood, we have a
[25:40] trade war going on apparently, so who
knows? But at this point, gas has been
[25:44] completely exempt under existing trade
agreements with Canada. And so the
[25:48] energy supply constraints that we see in
New England with the grid in general or
[25:53] with gas utilities in Massachusetts and
other parts of the region, they don't
[25:57] exist for our system. Um, and so as long
as that Canadian gas is flowing, we have
[26:02] that available. There's a question about
equity. If you look, you might be
[26:06] familiar with the efficiency Vermont
reports on energy burden. It's like it's
[26:10] a really great report. I encourage you
to look at as you're doing your plan. It
[26:14] basically shows the statewide picture of
energy burden and does a lot of analysis
[26:18] about what the factors are contributing
to folks ability to afford the energy
[26:22] they consume in different parts of the
state. And I will call out and I'm only
[26:26] doing this for information is that
Northwest Vermont has benefited from the
[26:30] low comparative cost of gas on a dollar
for-dollar basis. I think that some of
[26:35] the comments and discussions and
critiques we have about that are well
[26:39] there's externalities when you use gas
you know there's upstream emissions and
[26:42] all these other things and so what we
have been trying to do is figure out
[26:45] well how do we plan with the existing
policy in place and you know we have the
[26:49] global warming solutions act which had a
2025 target which you know jury's out on
[26:53] if we hit it 2030 it doesn't look like
the state's going to hit it and then
[26:57] 2050 we have another one um I don't know
how state policy makers are going to
[27:01] respond to that but all this is to say
that Our planning scenarios are trying
[27:05] to take into account all these factors
as we look at it and we think about well
[27:09] what would happen you know we have all
this infrastructure in the ground with
[27:13] the gas system either transmission or
distribution what would happen if you
[27:17] stopped using it you know who would be
who would be the last people on that
[27:20] system paying for its costs and upkeep
and this is a a concept in utilities you
[27:25] might hear about it's called the utility
death spiral the concept that if you
[27:28] have con if you have consumers of one
product all switching to another there's
[27:32] that existing system that needs to be
maintained but fewer people support it.
[27:35] It's kind of we talk about it with
social security as well when we think
[27:38] about paying out social security
benefits. So all these are are the
[27:41] policy conversations we have with state
regulators in this process. Um I just to
[27:47] be courteous of your time. I don't know
that we should get into all of it but on
[27:50] the last slide of this presentation
which will eventually switch over here
[27:54] for you. Um Will has this and could be
shared. There's a series of questions
[27:59] about these scenarios and what might
support your goals. I I don't think that
[28:03] I need to get all of your feedback
tonight, but we would welcome any
[28:06] feedback if you sent it over. Um you you
don't need to answer all these
[28:11] questions. I'd be happy to discuss it
now. Do you prefer do it now? Um but
[28:15] essentially these are these are the
questions that we are asking everyone.
[28:19] It's essentially do you do you is there
a scenario that you that would support
[28:23] your goals? Thinking about your
municipal planning goals or the goals of
[28:26] the region, the goals of your committee.
Um, and then of course there's questions
[28:30] like, are there programs or products we
should prioritize? Um, I'm guessing if
[28:34] you're an energy committee here in the
town thinking about future growth, you
[28:38] might be thinking about, well, what is
what is the option for strategic
[28:42] electrification for new development
that's going to meet their needs and not
[28:46] um be too expensive for the developer or
the eventual occupants. Um, so we have
[28:50] been looking at geothermal. It's a it's
actually a really exciting part of our
[28:55] projects. I mentioned it earlier, but um
just so you know, we have a pilot
[28:59] project with Champlne Housing Trust that
we're going to be putting drills in the
[29:03] ground on very soon in Heinesburg where
we're building a number of affordable
[29:06] housing with Champlne Housing Trust and
they will be serviced by single system
[29:11] geothermal loops. Uh we're also working
with a large developer in the region,
[29:14] O'Brien Brothers, and I would hope that
there's more developers soon on bringing
[29:18] to market an all electric option for new
development on single family homes.
[29:23] That's that's more of a boutique product
in O'Brien's brother's home. Um, you
[29:27] know, this is this conversation sort of
is started in the southern rim of
[29:30] Chipman County, but we have a product
that they're going to be offering. They
[29:33] currently have an all electric home heat
pump solution with solar panels on the
[29:37] roof, um, battery storage in the
basement, heat pumps, uh, ductless units
[29:42] around the house, or maybe they're
centrally ducted. I'm not sure. They're
[29:45] also going to be offering the geothermal
option soon where we, Vermont Gas, would
[29:49] actually own and operate the underground
loop. we would have an access charge
[29:53] that the owner of the home would pay to
us and then they would own the interior
[29:56] ground source heat pump through their
development. So that's an exciting
[29:59] opportunity for new housing that Chitten
County developers might be more
[30:03] interested in than say Franklin County
developers. Um so I just I put to you,
[30:07] you know, we don't need to have the full
conversation tonight, but all these
[30:10] questions, you know, what are the
barriers to your constituents here? You
[30:13] know, what might they look like? What
might they be? Are there particular um
[30:18] needs for different types of energy
burdened residents? uh might there be a
[30:22] different need for renters that you've
seen or for bipok promoters? Um and you
[30:26] know again I think from our perspective
we just want to make sure that we're
[30:29] effectively aligning with stakeholder
goals because if we can all push in the
[30:33] same direction it's better. Um and so
that's that's sort of the tenor of this
[30:37] conversation. If you have feedback happy
to take it now will or we could we could
[30:41] do it offline. Whatever you think is
best.
[30:42] » I'd like to ask you about something.
>> Come on over. Yeah let's do it.
[30:49] Give the magic cloud a second as you
say.
[30:51] » Yeah. And I'll ex out of mine.
>> Do you know about this?
[30:55] » So is this the new development that
you've all been looking at? Sort of the
[30:57] » 80 to 90 Main Street.
>> And so this is the municipal during
[31:02] ARPA. You bought a bunch the town bought
a lot of land for the purpose of a
[31:06] development. Is that right?
>> A lot of land. And and the development
[31:09] is very poorly defined at the moment.
But this is what we know that that it
[31:14] has. I'm just going to go up to kind of
show it. easier what we know. So, you
[31:18] know, I think you know where this is,
but basically this is like McDonald's
[31:22] over here. Okay. Then there's the the
the Maple Fields. They used to be the
[31:27] Eer's RV and it was a gym for a while.
All those things.
[31:30] » So, the idea is that we end up with
multiple municipal buildings. I think
[31:35] that one is the town hall. I think
number two is the library. And number
[31:39] three is the community.
>> Parks and wreck. Yeah, that might be
[31:45] parks and wreck. We have number four,
which is a massive fire station. Okay.
[31:51] But then and then we have a couple of
other, you know, areas that are
[31:56] basically slated for potential future
residential development.
[32:02] Uh there may be an athletic building of
some kind over here. It's up to me. It's
[32:06] a curling rink, but really there being a
resident. But regardless, the whole
[32:13] point is that this whole area could
become kind of like a super development.
[32:18] » Yeah,
>> we've been advised, we've been looking
[32:23] into now for since 2024, the idea of a
geothermal network of some kind,
[32:29] something similar to what we had or what
you know exists with um over at Beta and
[32:36] a number of other communities throughout
the country. And the advice that we've
[32:42] been given is that basically for where
everything is in the planning stages
[32:48] that there's not the ability now because
the design is still so we don't know
[32:53] truly what the development is.
But given where all those roads and
[33:00] paths are located,
if we if the designers were to put in
[33:07] sleeves now
right? As part of it, even though we
[33:11] don't know exactly where everything's
going,
[33:14] that would at least enable you to do
almost exactly or maybe maybe even
[33:20] greater than what you guys are already
doing over in Hinesburg.
[33:25] » So, what we want to know is
is that what is the best way to engage
[33:31] or to have Vermont Ga voice have Vermont
gas engaged in something like this?
[33:37] » Yeah. Yeah. Well, first of all, uh this
is the first step, right? Um so
[33:41] awareness, uh and I was so excited when
I saw it on your agenda. We have a a
[33:47] small team of folks who have been
focused on geothermal for about four
[33:50] years. And I'll just share, we proposed
our first project down at Rutland
[33:53] Regional Medical Center. Yeah. At a
facility down there, it was an
[33:57] interesting part of uh PUC case history
and precedent. They basically said to
[34:02] us, "Well, you can't do this project
even though it's not a gas project on
[34:05] your pipeline in that area. you can't go
outside of your service territory to do
[34:09] this at this time. Um it was under a
different commission. We then in recent
[34:13] years have worked very hard in
Heinesburg and we we obtained the
[34:16] funding through the Biden uh
administration era funding that was
[34:20] available to actually do a true thermal
energy network with that but low there
[34:24] was a change in election and
administration and that funding was
[34:27] clawed back before we could spend it.
And so we've had to shift that into a
[34:32] series of single group homes. But the
way that we thought about this is
[34:36] community scale geothermal. It's a
question of you could do a series of of
[34:39] single loop projects um and they may
serve multiple tenants. And you do have
[34:44] the ability over time to connect
different geothermal systems if you
[34:47] choose to such as thermal energy
network. But to your point, thermal
[34:51] energy networks they're finding
nationwide that they're they're
[34:54] expensive in developed area where you're
trying to retrofit them in part because
[34:58] there's all these remedial steps with
existing buildings that cost a lot of
[35:02] money. This is that loading of um steps
that I mentioned earlier. So it might be
[35:05] you have to weatherize, might mean you
need to do extensive uh panel upgrades
[35:09] in the buildings. You might need to do
different types of transformer upgrades
[35:12] around the community. Whatever it is, um
the opportunity to do it, assuming the
[35:17] geology is good, so you're not on a
bunch of ledge where it's going to be
[35:20] cost prohibitive to drill test wells and
and get these loops into the ground. The
[35:24] opportunity to do it is really in a new
development. We think generally it's
[35:27] just going to probably be a little more
cost effective. So, I'd be happy to
[35:30] connect, you know, if it's planning, I
don't know whom it is, but you know,
[35:33] anyone who wants to talk with our
resident geothermal expert, um, Morvin
[35:38] Hood, who has really, uh, she was at
efficiency Vermont for about 15 years
[35:43] before she came over. And she's led the
utility conversation about this to the
[35:48] point where she's pulled together all
these gas utilities to get them
[35:51] seriously talking about geothermal. And
they now have a consortium of something
[35:54] like a 100,000 gas customers nationwide
represented. and our staff person on our
[35:59] team is one of the co-chairs nationwide
and we only have 56,000 customers. So,
[36:03] you know, we're able to pull a lot of
cloud there. I will say there's a we are
[36:06] familiar with all the consultants
working in this area. There are some
[36:09] Vermont based consultants. Um, we're
also working with big national
[36:13] geothermal drilling companies. So what
we're trying to do is figure out a
[36:17] scalable replicable geothermal model
that works for single loop design for
[36:22] multif family and then potentially for a
thermal energy network in a in a
[36:26] development opportunity and maybe it's
this one right there's there's any
[36:29] number of things that we're looking at
right now. So be happy to connect her uh
[36:33] to talk through some of the technical
aspects of that and you know at a
[36:37] minimum I would think that whoever the
consulting engineer designer is tech
[36:42] » yeah whoever they are I mean they're
familiar maybe on some level with the
[36:45] systems um but you know it's a question
of
[36:48] » I don't know at which level but Morgan
would know when you want to do things
[36:51] like test wells and you know site
feasibility to ensure that it's going to
[36:55] be worth the the value if you invest a
bunch of money and I don't know if it's
[37:00] capital or how it's going to be going in
realized over time or amortized. You
[37:04] just want to make sure that it's going
to be viable to source the geothermal.
[37:07] » So is that conceptually that at every
that at least at let's say every place
[37:11] where we'd be considering a sleeve, you
do you know because there's a going to
[37:15] be a building nearby, you do a geotech
at that location.
[37:18] » I it's highly dependent on what the
building needs are. So I could foresee
[37:23] scenarios and I'm not an expert. I'm not
a project designer. I'm not a geothermal
[37:27] expert. But I am aware that the
opportunity with geothermal and these
[37:30] thermal energy networks is sort of waste
heat recovery being part of a system
[37:34] where you might have a factory producing
widgets and if you could draw upon their
[37:38] energy stream to provide some of the
heat and keep that thermal load warm for
[37:42] that sort of service and then be pulling
for cooling on the other side there's
[37:46] sort of an economies of scale that can
be realized.
[37:48] » Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Curling rink
actually might have a lot of good
[37:51] thermal loss there.
>> Just saying.
[37:53] » Yeah. Yeah. But but I I would be happy
to put you all in touch with Morgan,
[37:57] whoever the right person is, and she's a
real expert and she can bring um
[38:01] resources along to help you in this
direction. I think it's great. You know,
[38:04] I'm not surprised a lot of
municipalities have been looking at
[38:06] thermal energy networks. We actually
worked um over the last couple years
[38:10] with some of the proponents of thermal
energy networks um who were working on
[38:15] legislation. They did get a municipal
permission where a municipality could
[38:19] operate a utility for these. Starting
utility is a big decision, right? Um I
[38:25] won't get into that or the particulars
of that. We also, just so you know, we
[38:28] work very hard during the development of
the uh CHIP program or the housing uh
[38:35] infrastructure improvement program that
was recently adopted last year around
[38:38] this time. I was down before the the
board that oversees the rules for that
[38:42] and urged inclusion of a community scale
geothermal uh qualifier in there. It's
[38:48] not clear how they're going to
operationalize it. So there's a lot of
[38:51] interest to maybe seek legislation to
make clear geothermal could be uh
[38:55] permissible under the chip program. So
all this is to say there are
[38:59] opportunities. It it's amazing because
geothermal is not a new technology. It's
[39:03] been around a very long time. Um there's
been good systems, there's been not so
[39:07] good systems, but it's waiting there to
be captured. And it's just a matter of
[39:11] addressing the first cost. And the
initial cost is a lot. Um, but on the
[39:16] other hand, you get all these life cycle
savings over its life cycle, which is
[39:19] something in the scenario plannings, and
I think it was Natalie's question, it
[39:22] sort of brings it to mind. It's like if
you're thinking about long term and
[39:25] you're doing new development, there
might be an opportunity here. But, you
[39:28] know, lease cost, you might find that if
you want to go all electric, there might
[39:32] be other solutions that are more
cost-effective upfront. Will they be
[39:36] over the lifetime of the project? We we
generally think that geothermal is the
[39:39] most cost effective for heating and
cooling over time. There's a lot of
[39:43] reasons for that. It's a lot better to
have a heat pump in a basement that's
[39:45] probably pretty cool and relatively dry
as opposed to out. Catching leaves this
[39:50] time of year or catching pollen in the
spring. I mean, all these things are
[39:53] stressors on outdoor heat pumps. Doesn't
mean they're good or bad. It just means
[39:57] that they're the reality of living in
Vermont with crazy weather. Um, and so
[40:00] geothermal is sort of a captive system
in a basement. It's really, it's kind of
[40:04] incredible depending how it's set up.
There's also like there's ways to locate
[40:07] these systems where you have a loop and
it's feeding a whole network down a
[40:11] street. So,
>> yeah.
[40:12] » Yeah. All these options are on the
table.
[40:14] » Great. Any other questions or comments
for Dylan?
[40:20] My only quick take is that I think that
I I feel as though I think this is a
[40:26] little bit similar to what Katie was
saying, but my feeling is that the the
[40:30] need for the new residential
construction that is mostly or
[40:37] completely
efficient would far outset the fact that
[40:42] we have so much that is not. So in other
words, a and we have a housing crisis.
[40:47] So I guess that's for me why I fall on
two on you know yeah the scenario two
[40:54] but I also think that if you guys think
about scenario two where six years from
[41:00] now or eight years from or you know nine
years from now there's a way to unplug
[41:06] or you know take take the gas offline
and replace it with geothermal or
[41:10] something else as the technology gets
better. that's gonna, you know, then
[41:14] that's a then that's kind of a shortterm
and a long-term win.
[41:17] » Yeah. Yeah. Great feedback. And I'll
just share the really cool thing about
[41:21] geothermal. This might not be apparent.
You know, you you might not think about
[41:25] the gas lines under the roads that we
have and there's certainly some steel
[41:29] lines, but Vermont's system, it's really
new compared to many municipalities. We
[41:32] have municipalities with structures well
over 100 years old for gas
[41:35] infrastructure. In Vermont, a lot of it
has been upgraded since the 80s. We're
[41:39] only 60 years old, but uh something like
80% of it is is polyethylene pipe. And
[41:45] 2inch polyethylene pipe is generally
what they use for geothermal groups. So,
[41:48] you know, it's sort of this transferable
skill set. We're familiar with pipes,
[41:52] we're familiar with things under the
ground. We're familiar with heat pump
[41:55] systems, you know, radiant systems,
boilers, furnaces, all the above. And so
[42:00] it's a really interesting opportunity
for our workforce to begin developing
[42:03] knowledge of something that we know is
going to be around in the future that's
[42:07] providing heating and cooling um without
some of the environmental impact that we
[42:10] fully admit that our legacy product
natural gas contributes to. So where it
[42:15] goes, I don't know. I mean, it's all a
question of affordability right now.
[42:18] That's sort of in the foremost of
people's minds when we hear from
[42:21] customers. So we have to do it in a way
that's cost effective. I expect that for
[42:25] what it's worth, if you're plugging into
all these conversations, the
[42:28] comprehensive energy plan that the
state's going to be developing over the
[42:32] next year or so, really great
opportunity to hear from municipalities
[42:35] thinking about the balance of what
you're considering. And um there's all
[42:38] these great ways to plug in. I'll also
just do a plug just so you're aware
[42:41] because we are a sponsor. The Energy
Action Network Conference is being held
[42:45] at the Essex Resort this year. Yeah,
it's going to be right down the road
[42:49] here at the farmhouse building out front
and I think it's like a week or two
[42:54] away. So, if you haven't looked into it,
if you're interested, it's still open
[42:57] for registration.
>> So, it's right in your backyard. So,
[43:00] just a heads up. I'll be there and
always a good group of, you know,
[43:03] thinking and lots of lots to learn in
that setting.
[43:06] » Excellent.
>> Yeah.
[43:07] » Great.
>> I think that's all I have. I
[43:08] » That's great. No, that's exactly I think
we got certainly got to show you what we
[43:12] wanted to show you, but I think um so if
you'd like, why don't you leave? I have
[43:16] the presentation. I'll make sure it's
circulated and if we have any more
[43:20] » comments and any of those questions,
we'll get those back to you.
[43:23] » Yeah, you could just email it right
over. Um,
[43:25] » and yeah, I appreciate the time. This I
think this is my 13th municipality. I
[43:29] got like another 20 stakeholders that
I'll be talking to.
[43:32] » Wow.
>> Before the middle of next month, so it's
[43:34] fun. I get to do my tour and see
different parts of the state.
[43:36] » And we'll we'll definitely want to
contact your colleague and if you can
[43:40] send us that
>> point about the about what you know, how
[43:43] many retrofiteds or how many
>> Yeah. Let me get right on
[43:46] » installs. That will be great.
>> Might take me a few days. What is your
[43:49] timeline for your report that you're
>> We were already late on it. So,
[43:53] » well, there's no shame. There's a lot
going on. I understand. I'm I'm the
[43:57] chair of our board of civil authority in
Essex Junction and we're late on
[44:00] everything. So, don't worry about it.
>> Just one last question. Yes. On sort of
[44:04] slightly related. Is there any talk in
Essex Junction about an energy committee
[44:08] from what you can tell from just your
knowledge of the municipal city
[44:11] government over there?
>> It depends. Um, you know, I joined a
[44:16] » lawyer's answer.
>> Yes. Yes. You're good at that, right? I
[44:19] I joined
>> Sounds wrong.
[44:21] » Oh, good. Good. I joined one of the
focus groups uh with the town, I guess,
[44:26] city plan uh renewal that we're doing
with the regional planning commission
[44:30] and I joined the energy focus group and
I asked about that and it's just a
[44:33] question of time and staff I suppose.
And you know, candidly, not to get on my
[44:37] soap box, but I said at the beginning, I
think that we are realizing the growing
[44:41] pains of a community that's half the
size it was. I imagine everyone's
[44:45] realizing them. Sometimes it hurts more
than others, but um there's less
[44:49] resources to go around for really
important things, and we're finding that
[44:53] in the town you have a lot more
infrastructure set up over time. So,
[44:56] I'll just say that I'm off my soap box.
Well,
[45:00] » it's always great to have you both on
and off the soap box. So, thank you so
[45:04] much for coming. Yeah, I'm gonna get out
of here only because I have to get
[45:07] something else. But I'll follow up with
you on these. Thanks for your time.
[45:10] Thanks for your service.
>> Thank you, Dylan.
[45:12] » All right. Yeah, thanks for letting me
back in 81. I think it's years.
[45:16] » Yeah. All right.
>> Awesome. Good to see you.
[45:19] » Great.
>> All right. Uh, anything more we should
[45:24] talk about there? I will circulate that
um that list and then we can if there's
[45:30] any more maybe you know if folks want to
add some question add some answers to
[45:35] that um I think that's a that's a good
use of time. Um, okay. Switching to a
[45:40] couple of
>> could I could I just say one thing?
[45:44] » Of course.
>> Yeah. Uh, so I had a chance to meet with
[45:48] the run-on climate uh uh fellow and he
with regard well actually I think we're
[45:56] going to get to this in terms of have we
already now gone through the upper main
[46:02] um uh thermal energy pro progress? Have
we moved it and already talked about it
[46:08] or are we gonna come back to that?
>> No, we can talk about that next if you
[46:12] want. Um because I do think
>> Germaine the conversation.
[46:17] » Yep. Okay. No, I'll wait till we get
there. No problem. I was just going to
[46:22] comment on that. Yeah.
>> Um
[46:27] so the next item on our agenda was
community day and the election day info
[46:32] tables. So on community day, that's
September 19th. Do I have that right?
[46:38] » I believe. So I sent that email.
>> I'm sure you did.
[46:43] » With all the rules and regulations for
setting something up.
[46:47] » Yeah. Okay. Hold on one second. Maybe I
can.
[47:04] Okay.
>> Elections table.
[47:07] » I saw the election table request.
>> So the town's moderator, John Sonic, who
[47:14] handles all the election protocol.
>> Yes.
[47:16] » Uh request at the table. As long as the
committee stays within the rules
[47:20] mentioned in the policy that's attached,
Greg will allow it. Um,
[47:27] if you had any other questions.
[47:32] » Yeah.
>> To get some answers. Uh, I have the you
[47:36] have the policy there too. The
>> I do. Yeah. The BCA politician policy. I
[47:40] think it was just like where you're set
at the table and
[47:45] you know obviously you can't discuss
>> right anything about the election.
[47:49] » Yeah.
>> Absolutely. Yeah. It's a pretty
[47:54] straightforward policy.
>> Yeah.
[47:57] » So is this going to be over at the Essex
Middle School?
[48:00] » Exactly.
>> Where table B?
[48:04] Last time that we did this, which I
think was in 20
[48:10] have been 2020.
>> No, we Oh,
[48:14] » I thought we did it last year. I thought
we were there last year at
[48:18] » the election.
>> Oh, I'm sorry. I'm on community day.
[48:22] Sorry, election. Nope, you're right.
>> Jump back to community day. Sean John
[48:27] was right in pointing out that we did
receive the the note, you know, the the
[48:30] the the background on the election table
request.
[48:35] Um,
so let's see.
[48:44] Let me just check one thing about that.
Let's see. Yeah, they are welcome to set
[48:48] up outside on the walkway into the
school. It would be fine for them. This
[48:53] is coming from
John Sonic, I think. Yes. Who is the is
[48:59] he that he's the town he's on the board
of civil authority and he's basically
[49:03] the guy who runs all the elections. He
said uh it would be fine for them to be
[49:09] a little closer to the school that we
normally allow since I assume they
[49:12] wouldn't be waving placards for a
candidate or an issue on the ballot. And
[49:15] if they are in fact supporting something
on the ballot, they just have to stay in
[49:17] the normal zone. I don't think they
could be inside the school just because
[49:21] there'sn't a lot of room in there. We
will have some pole workers in that
[49:24] vestibule area. Ah, and school is in
session that day. So, that is different
[49:31] from what we had before. Last time we
were in the hallway on the on the way
[49:37] into the gym.
Do you think I should ask? Why don't I
[49:42] say we did this last time and as long as
we keep that table pretty thin, wouldn't
[49:46] there be a way that we could be on the
inside?
[49:50] » Can't hurt to ask.
>> Can't hurt to ask. Why don't I ask? That
[49:52] would be my action item is to ask to see
if there's any way that we can do it
[49:57] inside.
>> Do we have
[49:58] » we do it on election day?
>> We did I think back Natalie, don't do
[50:03] you remember wasn't that like 2018 that
we did that? Um
[50:08] » boy, I Let's see. 336. It could have
been that long ago. Yeah, it it really
[50:15] could have. Yeah,
>> I remember we were giving out like lots
[50:19] of Vermont gas um you know, the the
weather stripping and um and some info
[50:25] as well.
>> So, long time ago,
[50:28] » it was a long time ago for sure. And
maybe they're more nervous about it this
[50:32] year, but can't hurt to ask. why don't I
ask and then we can make a we can make a
[50:36] decision on it on that basis because
sitting outside it's just like bof
[50:41] however long and I also believe and
again this is going back on memory to
[50:46] 2018 we were not there the whole day we
were we picked like I think maybe the
[50:52] prime time sometime between like 4:00
and six o'clock and that's what I would
[50:59] propose to do again is just that we pick
a pick a peak hour Do we know what we
[51:04] want to have on the table and be
communicating a better?
[51:07] » Not yet. But that brings us back to
September 19th because I think whatever
[51:11] it is going to be for community day, we
should do the same thing at the uh at
[51:15] the election.
>> Should we pose the three scenarios that
[51:18] the one just presented?
>> We could certainly do that. We could
[51:21] say, "What do you think about the IRP?"
and and put out a placard about that.
[51:26] » Oh, yeah.
>> Or have a little vote. What we've done
[51:28] in the past is we've had jars and we've
given, you know, ballots and let people
[51:33] kind of,
>> you know, put in their vote, right?
[51:36] » Yeah. We had the bean count.
>> The bean count, which was great. We did
[51:40] that to try to try to get our new name.
>> Um,
[51:44] but I think beyond that for community
day,
[51:49] let me just double check on that.
[52:04] Yeah. Community day Essex.
Wait.
[52:13] » Community fall festival.
>> Community fall festival.
[52:19] » Yeah.
[52:22] Uh September 19th, 11 to 4
>> at Boston Road Park. 11 to 4. Okay.
[52:28] » That's the one they set up in the soccer
fields and baseball fields, right?
[52:35] » And I do think that we confirmed.
>> Oh, you did.
[52:42] » I thought we did also. Yeah.
>> Yep.
[52:45] » Yeah. Okay.
>> Yeah. I definitely remember the whole
[52:49] scenario from last year. Yeah.
So, you should be getting something from
[52:55] Nicole or Jen from Parks and Recreation.
>> Yes.
[53:00] » Where
I don't know if they have like a map of
[53:03] where people are going to be. If you
just go
[53:06] set a table up and first come, first
serve. I don't know how that works.
[53:10] » I think so. So, maybe what I should do,
let me just check one thing on my end.
[53:15] Um,
pass in. So September 19th is the
[53:22] Saturday. So in other words, it's not
this Saturday, but it's the following
[53:26] Saturday.
>> And you said 11 to 4.
[53:29] » Yeah.
>> Okay. So maybe what I should do is I I
[53:33] will put that on everybody's calendar or
unless you want to put it on your
[53:37] calendar right now, but send up a signup
sheet so that we can, you know, pick
[53:43] times to to try to be there. And I think
after that it's really going to be a
[53:48] question of what information do we want
to have out?
[53:52] Um, and maybe if I can get a what I what
I'm envisioning is that we should get
[53:57] info. I'm just brainstorming this now.
So others by all means chime in, but I'm
[54:02] thinking some combination of Vermont gas
um
[54:07] efficiency Vermont
[54:11] and probably stuff that we can make on
our own. if it's the energy plan, you
[54:17] know, like a like a thing about the
energy plan, about the IRP like you
[54:21] said, Gita,
um
[54:28] our charter, if the charter is approved,
because I did send that in to um you
[54:34] know, to the select board and I don't
know when it is that they're going to
[54:36] actually hear on that, but we can at
least we can at least talk about that
[54:40] with folks.
And then who am I missing?
[54:46] CCR. Well, actually, I'm wondering about
um
[54:51] VCAN now that I'm realizing that they're
having this festival, this um
[54:56] » Oh, energy action network.
>> Energy or Yeah, sorry. Energy Action
[55:01] Network.
[55:04] Bear with me for one second on that.
What are the details there?
[55:12] Oh, that's the 23rd. Okay.
[55:20] Well, they actually always have a lot of
good stuff, too. So, maybe we ask them
[55:24] for information as well. Like, they have
all those charts. You know, I'm just
[55:28] looking one now. How far does $10 take
you? Electric versus g gasoline
[55:33] vehicles. They have kind of great stuff
like that that we can share with folks.
[55:38] Um,
[55:41] does that sound good to everybody or any
any thoughts one way or the other
[55:48] maybe what we can do is um
>> will sorry it's hard to know when to
[55:56] interrupt. Yeah. Well, just it would be
helpful to know who who would be
[56:00] available to to work at the table. My my
experience is you you're probably okay
[56:07] with just one person at a time given
what I'm remembering about the traffic.
[56:13] Um but do we have folks available? I
just curious. I know you were going to
[56:19] send around the signup sheet, but I'm
just curious who's available.
[56:22] » Yeah, the n So it's the 19th from 11 to
4.
[56:29] I know I'm available. I'm happy to to
take the first shift and kind of get
[56:33] some stuff organized.
>> I'm available.
[56:38] » I'm available after two. After two.
Okay.
[56:44] » Great,
Rod.
[56:46] » Great.
>> Yeah. So, we've got So, we actually have
[56:50] um four people. Okay. So, we've got
plenty of folks who can can help with
[56:55] this. That's great.
>> Yep. Okay.
[56:59] » Great. So I think in the in the interim
what what maybe what I'll do is with an
[57:04] email I may um you know set out some
delegate you know to delegate some of
[57:10] the let's go get some information from
efficiency Vermont from etc like we've
[57:17] traditionally done in the past knowing
that this is very new to Ken but I think
[57:21] everybody else we you know we've had it
and Ken it'll be second nature to you
[57:26] once you once you see a lot of it So,
all right.
[57:34] » Good stuff. Um,
next item that I had on the agenda was
[57:41] Oh, yeah. The planning commission
request about the energy plan. So, Sean,
[57:45] remind me about that again.
>> So,
[57:50] they asked that we come and talk to
them.
[57:53] » They want uh the board's work plans for
the coming year. Yeah.
[57:58] » Uh any budget requests that you may have
starting on July 1st, 27th.
[58:05] » Um
>> did they want us to come meet with them?
[58:10] » So they will set an appointment up with
the board. It looks like it will be
[58:15] either I don't think it's going to be
the 14th because um I would hope that
[58:19] you had heard something
>> before Monday. Yeah.
[58:23] » October 5th, October 19th, and November
2nd. Those are the dates that they will
[58:28] be
going. The select board will be going
[58:32] over all the commissions and boards.
>> I see. Okay.
[58:35] » Coming year.
>> So, do we need to get back to them to
[58:38] say like we prefer this date?
>> Um,
[58:46] » oh, I see. Yes. Let's see. Upcoming
select board meetings are Monday,
[58:50] September 14th, October 5th, October
19th, and November 2nd. Please not
[58:54] there's a broader effort to improve
communication.
[59:02] » I like the idea of November 2nd because
it gives us more time.
[59:09] » Save the best for last, right?
>> Yeah, maybe.
[59:15] » Um, so let's just But going through
their bullets just quickly, they say
[59:19] they want to know your board's work plan
for the coming year. I have that. I
[59:23] haven't sent it to you guys yet, but we
could post it up on the board here in a
[59:26] minute. Does your board have any budget
requests for fiscal year 28, which
[59:30] starts on July 127? I think the answer
is we don't know yet. Uh what is working
[59:37] well on although I do think that maybe
some component of that is going to be
[59:41] the research into the sleeves and the
and the um geothermal as part of the um
[59:48] you know, as part of the upper Main
Street project. though I I do have
[59:52] information on that.
>> Okay.
[59:54] » Going off of one of the scenarios that
they have for the buildings. It's
[59:59] 95,650T
building.
[1:00:03] » Um
and the different types of
[1:00:06] » Wait, sorry, John. That's the aggregate
of all the square footage of all the
[1:00:09] buildings or is that just one specific
>> of the the megaplex of all the buildings
[1:00:14] » of everything?
>> Um okay.
[1:00:17] And typically that's how they determine
how many wells they need to dig is by
[1:00:22] the square footage. So typically for a
building that size it's going to between
[1:00:25] 20 and $50,000.
>> Okay.
[1:00:28] » Um and that's the mobilization setup,
drills, generating equipment. And they
[1:00:34] have to drill and cast for the for the
BS. They're typically 300 to 500 ft deep
[1:00:40] at 20 to $40 per foot depending on if
they're hitting rock, sand,
[1:00:45] » ledge, etc. Yeah. Um then they have to
do uh what's called a loop installation
[1:00:50] and grouting. So it's like a high
density polyurethane tubes that are
[1:00:56] loaded into the wells and then they do
what's called a thermal response testing
[1:01:00] on on what's coming up
>> circulating through that and that's how
[1:01:04] they determine
>> how much you BTUs basically is that
[1:01:09] you'll be able to get out of those
[1:01:13] » um for this area of Vermont for that
amount of square foot. How many wells do
[1:01:18] they think they need to drill? So, let's
see. Anywhere between
[1:01:28] it was almost 500. Let me I I know it's
in there somewhere. Wow. Thought
[1:01:34] » that is a lot.
[1:01:41] » I had a question too. Well,
>> yeah. Yeah. In general, can some of
[1:01:47] those wells be under parking lots?
Good question. I I can't imagine why
[1:01:52] they wouldn't, but I
but I do seem I do feel like I mostly at
[1:01:58] least of the ones that I've seen, it
does seem like most of them are out in a
[1:02:01] field somewhere.
>> Yeah.
[1:02:04] » So, I don't know if if that is a product
of they don't want to be under under a
[1:02:09] parking lot because of access like you
access them again.
[1:02:13] » I don't I don't know.
[1:02:17] I guess it it depends on on what they
run into for how many they're going to
[1:02:21] have to drill, but it it's going to be
quite a few. I guess the exact number is
[1:02:27] not in here.
>> Okay.
[1:02:28] » The reason I brought that up is um I'm
I'm sure there's some kind of uh
[1:02:34] distance between wells. So, you can
fairly rapidly figure out how big the
[1:02:39] field would have to be and then overlay
that on top of the thing. it was 2/3 of
[1:02:44] that area there. That's
>> no point.
[1:02:46] » Yeah.
>> Right.
[1:02:49] Um but yeah, so then they do that that
thermal test and it's it's expensive in
[1:02:57] the beginning, but you know over 10 to
20 years you could save millions of
[1:03:03] dollars and electricity.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[1:03:06] » So it's a high cost, high payoff.
[1:03:11] Certainly something they should look
into I think if they're gonna you know
[1:03:15] » so then okay so that might be so we'll
come back to that a little bit but so
[1:03:19] that might be our budget request in part
and then we have to go into the where
[1:03:23] where else can we find some grants for
to supplement that
[1:03:27] uh
okay then we have to find what is
[1:03:30] working well on your board and what
could be approved plenty and plenty I
[1:03:35] would say what do you what do you want
or need to be a more effective committee
[1:03:43] Okay, I'm just throwing out these
questions here without putting out the
[1:03:46] answers. Maybe we should talk about this
a little bit more next time. Um, but my
[1:03:51] just to say it out loud, what I think
would be so much so helpful is if we
[1:03:57] could get more data from the treasures
about like what, you know, where meters
[1:04:05] are, what we're, you know, like what
we're paying, what we're paying
[1:04:08] annually,
how much savings are we getting from the
[1:04:11] solar, all those kinds of things. You
know what I mean? Almost like building a
[1:04:14] dashboard,
>> right? So, I mean, we can I can give you
[1:04:18] every penny the town's spent on gas and
electricity.
[1:04:23] » I have all of that.
>> You do? Okay. All right. So, that may be
[1:04:27] » as far as as the credits for the solar.
>> Yeah.
[1:04:30] » But I I don't I have all that
information. Dan Roy, I believe, would
[1:04:35] he he deals with the credits and Yeah.
paying. I think we should get I think if
[1:04:41] we're going to go meet with the select
board on November 2nd, let's get that
[1:04:45] info because Andy Watts has been asking
for that for years and I feel like we've
[1:04:49] never really delivered on that.
Not because we I mean not because we I I
[1:04:55] feel like we have asked, but just make
it a solid ask,
[1:04:59] » right?
>> We have like what 60% or 40% that we
[1:05:03] could add more to the buildings to the
credits. We could be getting more credit
[1:05:09] based upon what GB said then what do we
know?
[1:05:12] » Right. I don't understand how it all
works. I know there's 215 panels on top
[1:05:16] of the police station and
>> yeah,
[1:05:19] » I get about $200 worth of saving.
>> Can we get that or does that
[1:05:23] » I I think that's what we save on the
electric bill. So on average police
[1:05:30] stations anywhere from 3 to 3500 a
month. uh depending, you know,
[1:05:35] summertime we get
>> sometimes a thousand dollars that's
[1:05:40] knocked off the bill, but I believe
there's some credit stuff in the
[1:05:43] background that I'm I don't know how all
that works,
[1:05:46] » right?
>> Um
[1:05:48] » you could add more more of your accounts
into the pool solar and get some of the
[1:05:52] credits the excess that you're
generating,
[1:05:55] » right?
>> You could apply to some of your builds.
[1:05:58] » Whatever we can do because like I just
said, it's 18.11%. No, that's going to
[1:06:03] that's going to smart.
>> It's not stopping.
[1:06:05] » Yeah,
>> it's just going to skyrocket.
[1:06:09] » The more demand for electric, the higher
it gets. Just the way it is.
[1:06:14] » Yeah. Well, and also I mean, you know,
Dylan's quip about the trade war is not
[1:06:20] a trivial thing. I mean, if it gets if
it got really ugly,
[1:06:24] » it could get really ugly for Vermont.
>> Right.
[1:06:28] » Right.
>> It will. I have to get going.
[1:06:30] » You got to get going. All right. Thank
you, Ken. Great stuff. We'll we'll
[1:06:34] communicate on the rest of the of it by
email. Okay. Really appreciate it. All
[1:06:38] right.
>> Thanks.
[1:06:40] » Um, okay. So, and then the last question
on this was stipens. How do volunteers
[1:06:44] feel about them? Are they useful in
contributing? Have we gotten our
[1:06:50] only one person has ever asked me for a
stipen?
[1:06:53] » That's fine. And that was if so if you
want a stipen
[1:06:57] » at at each meeting I need to know who
wants the stipen because I have to fill
[1:07:02] out paperwork for each person. So I
>> I'm told that I that I don't have to
[1:07:08] announce that but I don't know how that
works either to be honest with you. I
[1:07:13] know I have the saved. I just change the
dates on it and send it. So if you want
[1:07:18] the stipen I I think it's
>> 20 bucks.
[1:07:22] » No. I don't know. I want to say 90.
>> Really?
[1:07:26] » I could be wrong.
>> I I don't know to be honest with you. I
[1:07:30] can find out.
>> Okay. Sure. Why don't you find out first
[1:07:33] and then we can go back to that. Okay.
All right. So, we need to we'll need to
[1:07:39] respond to that then. But could do you
want to just ask and put us on for
[1:07:44] November 2nd
and that gives us a little more time to
[1:07:48] talk about this in October.
[1:07:54] Y.
[1:07:57] Now, as to the work plan, I'm just
looking and it is just let me just look
[1:08:02] at what's on our agenda.
What else is on our agenda for tonight?
[1:08:10] I think the right thing to do here
because I did not get the work plan to
[1:08:14] everybody before this meeting is that I
will I'll send that here. I can put it
[1:08:19] up right now. Give me one second.
[1:08:30] I just want to send work plan draft.
[1:08:37] Okay, there we go.
[1:08:42] » Oops. Bear with me.
>> Yeah, Will, while you're looking for
[1:08:45] that, just two things. One is do we need
the I I remember we used our popup tent
[1:08:52] for the community day. Does that sound
familiar to folks?
[1:08:58] » It does. Is that back with you?
>> Well, it is. The only thing is that it
[1:09:04] has a tear in it unrelated to its use
last year and we're having somebody
[1:09:08] repair it. I think I can probably pull
it in in time or get it back in time,
[1:09:14] but does anyone else have a popup that's
available in case I can't?
[1:09:21] » That sounds like a no.
>> I think it's a no unless unless Ken has
[1:09:26] one because no longer here.
>> Yeah. Well, I'll just let's just figure
[1:09:30] we'll try to call ours in. So, the other
thing is I I haven't heard Doy in the
[1:09:36] meeting. It's hard for me to know who's
there. Am I right?
[1:09:39] » You are correct. And I was I was going
to raise that issue, but go ahead and
[1:09:43] say what's on your mind about that.
>> Well, you're probably going there too
[1:09:47] maybe. Uh Will is just around uh somehow
celebrating DIY. So, I'll just leave it
[1:09:52] there and we'll get to it when we get to
it. But yeah, I don't know when she's
[1:09:56] moving. Um so, just making sure we think
of something there. I think that would
[1:10:02] be an important gesture.
Yeah, understood.
[1:10:09] Um, and moreover, maybe actually Sean,
one thing that we could do just right
[1:10:15] off the bat there is that in the past
for members of the committee who've been
[1:10:20] on for more than a year, we've ended up
with kind of like a certificate of
[1:10:24] appreciation
from the select board or I think it
[1:10:28] usually comes from the select board. Um,
and I think that that's definitely
[1:10:33] called for in the case of
>> Doie.
[1:10:35] » I think we made it a year, but we were
sort of like it just sort of depended on
[1:10:39] level of contribution. And she certainly
qualifies.
[1:10:44] » She been how many roughly?
>> Uh, at least five.
[1:10:52] » Quite a few. Yeah. Yeah,
>> at least five. Maybe close to six.
[1:11:00] I I'm also thinking maybe a chance to
sit down with her or something. I I
[1:11:08] don't know. I know Ga you had spoken
about Well, anyway,
[1:11:12] » uh a gift possibly and if I'm
remembering all this correctly. Yeah.
[1:11:17] It's just I think celebrating her in
some um fairly intentional way would be
[1:11:24] I think good. Should we do that in the
month of September, you think? Or maybe
[1:11:29] first week of October, something like
that?
[1:11:33] » When is she moving?
>> I there was no date she mentioned. It
[1:11:39] was like dependent on
when she finds h housing,
[1:11:46] right?
Contingent there.
[1:11:49] » But I was thinking put a basket together
with Vermont stuff. since she's living
[1:11:55] out of state.
>> Yeah. And and Keith, I know my initial
[1:12:01] response to that wasn't and I say go for
it if you're I mean if everybody else
[1:12:06] agrees, I'm happy to contribute.
>> Just bring in your best of you put it
[1:12:13] together.
>> Yeah. If you put it together, we'll
[1:12:14] reimburse you all for it or you want
input. But if you don't mind taking that
[1:12:19] as a charge, then
>> great.
[1:12:23] any any kind of G like I'm extremely
surprised she's not there now so it
[1:12:29] makes this conversation easier but do we
want to try to schedule or make sure
[1:12:34] she's at the next meeting or how do we
in terms of presentation
[1:12:42] » I'm starting to think maybe a a
standalone event might be better easier
[1:12:46] to organize we don't have to worry about
open meeting and all that right just to
[1:12:51] kind of say goodbye to her and
But then if we can get the letter of
[1:12:55] recognition and then we can say
something more formalized at the next
[1:13:00] meeting, that's probably the best way to
handle this.
[1:13:03] » I'm looking
legal analysis, but
[1:13:08] » yeah. Right. So that we would say
something formal at the next meeting,
[1:13:12] assuming that she can come, but then
have a a a um just sitting down at at a
[1:13:18] local restaurant or bar or something
like that and um Yeah. having Is that
[1:13:24] what you're thinking? Okay.
>> Yeah. And shooting the breeze with her
[1:13:27] » just thanking her for service.
[1:13:32] » So why don't we do that? I'm inclined on
the on the work plan because you guys
[1:13:38] haven't had a chance to see this. It's
very similar to the one that we talked
[1:13:41] about last time, but I don't think it
hurts if we're going to have the meeting
[1:13:47] uh November 2nd for us to review, you
know, to have you guys review this and
[1:13:53] make sure we're all in agreement on it
before the or at the October
[1:13:58] meeting. and then we can just approve
it, send it to them, go from there.
[1:14:05] That sound okay to everybody?
It's a lot easier than trying to read it
[1:14:09] on screen just kind of given where we
all are.
[1:14:13] So, um Okay.
Um why don't then we Okay. So, regarding
[1:14:20] the energy plan though specifically,
Sean,
[1:14:24] » I think um didn't Ann Jandice say that
she was
[1:14:31] able to help just do some of the
[1:14:36] like touching up on that. Just see if I
got that
[1:14:45] comment.
No, I think that's what I think that's
[1:14:48] what I should do is get our current
draft back to her to take a look at and
[1:14:53] probably copy um
uh Catherine at the CDO as well to say
[1:15:00] here are our changes so that we can then
get that
[1:15:04] » get that back to everybody.
>> Okay.
[1:15:06] » Um Okay. So Natalie, why don't you tell
us about you had some other progress as
[1:15:12] far as like the funding and the work
that you were looking into for the Upper
[1:15:17] Main Street project.
>> Will, it was more, you know, me meeting
[1:15:22] with the the run on climate fellow and
his his strong feeling. I I I showed him
[1:15:30] he has the emails that Katherine sent
with regard to the test um the utility
[1:15:37] sleeves and the the the test well etc.
And he he just said that it is um well
[1:15:44] Dylan was touching on this that these
pipes can last a hundred years, the heat
[1:15:49] exchange can last about 30 years and
that to approach it anything other I
[1:15:56] mean if we were remotely serious about
it to approach it anything other than
[1:16:01] toward the beginning of the project
rather than after the fact is the thing
[1:16:08] that would financially make the most
sense. Now, do I have all the numbers to
[1:16:12] back that up? But he said that it but
then Debbie knew is going to be, you
[1:16:18] know, he was going to actually be
talking with Debbie the day after I met
[1:16:22] with him.
And uh but he said, "Boy, if you can get
[1:16:26] it off the ground at the beginning, um
you know, above and beyond just the
[1:16:32] test, the test well, etc. That would be
in the big scheme of things, hard as it
[1:16:39] might be to imagine this, the most
economically logical.
[1:16:45] That is what I've learned.
>> Right.
[1:16:49] Okay. That's very helpful.
That's very helpful. Well, I'm inclined
[1:16:54] to get in touch with the the person that
Dylan recommended the Vermont Gas.
[1:17:00] Oh, can can I'm sorry that does he said
LN the LN consulting uh folks really
[1:17:08] highly regarded and
>> okay
[1:17:12] » and and part of his job is also
understanding how to influence policy
[1:17:17] makers. Um and he he said getting
getting a the ear of or having a
[1:17:26] conversation with a couple of select
board members would be really valuable.
[1:17:32] Um, and you know, Shannon Jackson comes
to mind. And then in my infinite wisdom,
[1:17:38] I said, "And Ethan Morris,"
which was I don't maybe you all don't
[1:17:45] understand why I think that's so funny,
but um anyway, but I you know, just in
[1:17:50] terms of talking with them individually
or or or as a duo about um the possib in
[1:17:56] other words, not just landing it on
them, you know, in at some other date,
[1:18:01] but but actually talking with them about
it and trying to build a relationship
[1:18:05] around the consideration of this.
>> Yeah,
[1:18:10] » he suggested that. Yeah,
>> did you end up going to the Saturday?
[1:18:15] » I was gonna bring this up. One of the
interesting things that I came away from
[1:18:19] that meeting after having spoken with um
people from transportation and trails
[1:18:24] and conservation and then housing.
>> And this just for everybody's just just
[1:18:28] to frame it. So, this is you going to
the Saturday meetings that they have at
[1:18:33] the um at the
>> Uncommon Ground.
[1:18:38] » Yeah. So, I went to the the breakfast
recently.
[1:18:40] » Oh, the breakfast one. That's right.
>> And then Yes. So, the the Saturday
[1:18:44] things will be coming up. But, um it's
interesting how it seems like
[1:18:48] everybody's in like their little silos.
So the housing people um so like Lois
[1:18:53] the the chair for the housing has like
some really interesting fantastic ideas
[1:18:57] about how to address some of the housing
needs. Then you have transportation
[1:19:01] talking about how do we best meet
transportation needs for citizens of the
[1:19:05] town. Um and then um similar for for the
trails but there's like an energy
[1:19:12] component to all of these things. So, it
just feels like there's some like
[1:19:16] missing connection on how do we how do
we make sure that any of those kind of
[1:19:22] projects that may be coming forth or
when bigger things come through the town
[1:19:27] that has, you know, any sort of
regulation on like new buildings or
[1:19:32] things like that. How do we
>> how do we have input on that? I don't
[1:19:36] know if that's part of the kind of
action plan is this kind of
[1:19:40] collaboration with with the other
committees for things that may have an
[1:19:43] energy component to it or just stronger
recommendations for regulation.
[1:19:49] » Well, that's very that's really
important that you had that. I'm glad
[1:19:52] that you were there. Um
yeah, I think I mean I think the
[1:19:57] newsletter helps the one that the town
puts out because we can at least see
[1:20:01] that through that what other groups are
doing. But um but yeah, I think more
[1:20:07] collaboration opportunities would be
really good. And and is that breakfast
[1:20:11] meeting? Did they talk about that? So is
that coming up? Is that this weekend?
[1:20:15] » So the the breakfast was last Friday.
>> The breakfast was Friday, but then the
[1:20:19] one that they do at Uncommon.
>> Yeah. So I don't I don't know if it's
[1:20:23] coming out this weekend or if it's next.
But those are on Saturday.
[1:20:29] » Yeah. I have a feeling it might be this
Saturday.
[1:20:31] » Yeah.
>> Okay.
[1:20:35] Well, to just to Natalie's point, that
might be a point to talk with some of
[1:20:39] those guys individually about,
[1:20:45] you know, about the need to be just to
be hammering on this, taking the thermal
[1:20:50] geothermal more seriously.
>> Yeah.
[1:20:55] » Okay. Well, great. Thank you both for
those updates. I think that's great.
[1:21:00] Um, I had on my list the charter and I
did send that just tonight to Greg Dugen
[1:21:06] and said, "Here you go. This took a long
time for us to put it together, but here
[1:21:10] it is and we'd like your input and see
if it can be approved by the select
[1:21:15] board." So, what I'm hoping, um, Sean,
is that maybe that maybe they approve
[1:21:20] that on November 2nd if if that's when
we meet with them.
[1:21:26] that will that's where they're going to
discuss all of that stuff. So
[1:21:30] » yeah, perfect.
>> Yep.
[1:21:32] » It gives enough time, but it also gives
enough time that if Greg or is it Karen?
[1:21:36] If Greg or Karen wanted us to change
something else on it or there's
[1:21:40] something else that causes a problem,
they've got time to get it to us and we
[1:21:44] can get a we can get a track.
>> Right. I I would send it once you find
[1:21:47] out what date you're going to be at. I
would send it to Karen and Greg.
[1:21:50] » Yeah.
>> Know at least a week or so.
[1:21:52] » Well, they have it now. Oh, they have
Oh, that's why you just sent it. Yeah.
[1:21:56] So, that I would think that that's
plenty of time.
[1:21:58] » Yeah. Okay. Good. Good. Good. Good. All
right. Last item that I have. I have
[1:22:04] print copies of this, believe it or not.
Take a look and I'll I'll post it up
[1:22:10] here on the screen in just a second.
This is my not
[1:22:15] hopefully short but sweet take for the
Essex um
[1:22:20] you know for front porch
on the Essex uh experience story the
[1:22:26] exorter story right which is that story
about Sun and Essex experience getting
[1:22:32] together so hold on Rod and Natalie and
I'll put this up for you
[1:22:40] See, there we go.
>> Now, do we have some data from them on
[1:22:45] how almost their savings?
>> Not yet, but we could certainly ask for
[1:22:49] that.
>> Yeah, that'd be good to get some stats
[1:22:52] on.
>> Yep. Okay.
[1:22:57] So, this is what I have, which is which
is very generic, but I agree with the
[1:23:01] suggestion that maybe we ask both of
them. What's the What would be good to
[1:23:06] know is what the total
kilowatt hour is between
[1:23:12] what's on the Essex Experience and
what's on the Spawn Resort.
[1:23:18] » Yeah, you could you you could definitely
get that because you're most utilities
[1:23:23] are obligated to provide that
>> how much you're generating.
[1:23:27] » Oh. Oh, I see. Yeah. every month your
your your bill should show how much
[1:23:33] you're generating and if if Experience
gets a consolidated bill and
[1:23:40] um depending on how they're
account set up, you should be able to
[1:23:46] get that information.
>> Okay,
[1:23:50] I'm going to email this to everybody.
So, how about we do this and say that
[1:23:54] because we're going to get that that
information,
[1:23:57] but I'm just going to say please provide
edits.
[1:24:02] Uh, and I will seek out from
I think we should ask for it from Suncom
[1:24:11] the info on total KWH
[1:24:17] output savings etc. I can get that from
Mike McCarthy, who I know pretty well.
[1:24:23] You probably know Mike very well, too.
But he'd be a good person to get that
[1:24:27] from, I think.
>> Yeah, that would be a good P.
[1:24:30] » Okay, so I'll send that now.
There we go.
[1:24:46] Very good. That'll go out to everybody
here in just a second. and I sent you
[1:24:50] the email on when that letter goes out.
>> Okay.
[1:24:54] » Um,
[1:24:58] PS6
News Monthly Community, it is going out
[1:25:03] this Friday. I sent that to you on the
31st.
[1:25:06] » Oh, yes.
>> But I believe it's
[1:25:11] the same Friday of every
>> Oh, was it Friday? Wait, this is Brian
[1:25:17] comment. No, for
>> this is for this letter you wanted to
[1:25:20] do.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Right. Right.
[1:25:23] Right. Pages, Facebook, all that stuff.
>> Y
[1:25:27] this Friday. All right. Well, let me
see. By noon on Thursday. Well, let me
[1:25:30] see if I I'll I'll email Mike tonight
and maybe he'll be able to get back from
[1:25:33] there tomorrow. But if not this
Thursday, then maybe we'll do it next
[1:25:37] for next Thursday. The next letter.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yep.
[1:25:42] Okay.
Any other business to discuss this
[1:25:46] evening?
I I'm sorry. I'm back with Die again
[1:25:50] because there's a dangling piece here.
Can I not knowing her timeline, I would
[1:25:56] propose, shall I go ahead and check with
Die and find a few times that she would
[1:26:02] be available in the late afternoon to
early evening. I mean, just yell out
[1:26:08] your thoughts, find a few dates, maybe
just put them out to folks. I'm happy to
[1:26:13] handle it. I I just Does that seem like
a good approach or do folks want to say,
[1:26:19] "Oh, how about this in this state?" What
do you think?
[1:26:24] » No, it is. Uh Natalie, I love it if you
would mind wouldn't mind doing that. And
[1:26:29] in particular,
it would be interesting to know what
[1:26:33] she's doing on the 19th because if we're
all kind of around anyway and we're
[1:26:37] doing the info table, then maybe we do
something in table.
[1:26:41] » Yeah.
like right at the end. Oh, that's a
[1:26:45] great idea. I just was because I'm
thinking that she would have some
[1:26:48] availability, but I don't know and I
know that time passes and then we would
[1:26:52] lose our opportunity. Great.
>> Let me talk with her and I'll work on
[1:26:59] » Yeah. celebrate a little later that
afternoon.
[1:27:02] » Oh, that sounds like a terrific idea.
Okay, I'll get back to everybody with
[1:27:06] what I learn and we'll go with that
option. and maybe
[1:27:11] one other possibility if that doesn't
look good for her. Okay, great. Thank
[1:27:16] you.
>> Give me a date to
[1:27:19] » to build build a a gift basket. Thank
you for doing that.
[1:27:24] » Excellent.
All right, everyone. Well, that that was
[1:27:28] good. I'm glad we had I'm really glad
that we had Dylan. It's always great to
[1:27:30] have guest speakers. If any of you have
in mind other guest speakers, you know,
[1:27:35] definitely let me know because I always
got to charge them.
[1:27:39] » Good stuff.
>> Thanks for Dylan. He reminded me that
[1:27:42] there's a meeting today.
>> That's right. And told us and told us
[1:27:45] that the EN meetings in our backyard.
I think everybody gets those
[1:27:52] um emails, but if you don't get those
from them, let me know if you're
[1:27:57] interested in that. And I I think I'm
going to go ahead and assuming I can
[1:28:00] make it, I'll go ahead and register
because it's literally a block from my
[1:28:06] house.
>> When is it? 23rd.
[1:28:08] » 23rd. I have I'm very worried that I
have a wedding or something that day.
[1:28:14] The night
>> in town.
[1:28:16] » Yeah. I don't know. But anyway, we'll
take a look at it. So, all right.
[1:28:21] Hearing no further business. Can I get a
motion to adjurnn?
[1:28:26] So moved.
Okay. Second.
[1:28:30] » Second.
>> All right. All in favor?
[1:28:33] » I.
>> I. All right. Thank you all. Good to see
[1:28:37] you.
>> Bye-bye.
[1:28:40] » Take care. Bye. Bye.
>> Bye.
[1:28:43] » All right.
[1:28:48] Script is being generated.