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Not quite that loud, but good morning and welcome. I'd like to now call to order the December 13,

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2023, 930 special Village Council meeting to order. And we would like to remind everyone

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that if you have a cell phone, to please silence that now so that we don't get disrupted in a

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people's train of thought on this thing, that includes counsel in myself. I'd also like to remind

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all our speakers and council members when you are speaking that you get close to the microphones,

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especially this one up here, adjusted, and it needs to be within five or six inches of your

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speaking voice there. So I'll remind you if we can't hear but sometimes a little more difficult to

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up here how it's going. So with that, I would like to start this meeting with an

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invocation from Kyle Strom. He is from the Ocean Church right down the street

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from here. Welcome, Kyle.

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Welcome, more than everybody. We have power heads and we'll ask the Lord to be

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present in this meeting. Father, we thank you for another day that you gave us

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breath in our lungs and the Lord, we thank you that we can come to you with anything

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that we have in our hearts, Lord, and I just pray for anybody in this room that is carrying

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heavy hearts this morning.

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Maybe they're worried, anxiety, fear, maybe, Lord, I pray that you would just meet this

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morning.

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And Lord, that we can come to you, but you came to us first as we celebrate Christmas that

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you came to us as a baby, not as what we expected, but Lord has, in a major scene, father.

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And Lord, I pray that if anybody is just struggling with just things that they're holding

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on to from the past Lord, I pray that you would just meet them.

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And Lord, you came to us as the gentle counselor, the mighty God, the Prince of Peace, and

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everlasting Father.

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And you said the world and this government will be on your shoulder.

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So Lord, we pray right now for the village of a sterile.

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We pray for this meeting.

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Thank you for the leaders that sit before me. You placed them in the seats and Lord give them wisdom this morning

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Lord, I pray for their families. I pray for their children. Lord, it's not easy. They're sitting where they're at.

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But you put them there for a reason for such a time as this.

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And Lord, I pray for this meeting. It would be the best meeting they've had all year.

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Lord, I pray for wisdom beyond human reasoning. Lord, that you would give them wisdom this morning.

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pray for just the speech this morning, it would be uplifting and edifying to you. And Lord

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we give you all the praise and all the glory in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Thank you, God.

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Please join me in the pledge of allegiance.

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Madam Clerk, would you please call a role?

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Vice Mayor

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of his councilmember Ward here.

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Councilmember Zelokki here.

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Today we have one item on the agenda.

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That is a quasi-uditial, that is quasi-uditial.

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So I will turn this over to the village attorney

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to emphasize the format of today's meeting.

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Thank you, Mayor.

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This is a hearing on an appeal of a decision

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of the planning, zoning, and design board.

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brought pursuant to Section 2-4091 of the Village Code, the relevant provisions of that code section

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provide. Any party agreed by a decision of the PZDB shell prior to seeking judicial review,

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file with the Village Clerk within 30 days from the vote of the board and application for a

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appeal to the Village Council. Upon the filing of a notice of appeal, the Village Council's shell

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As soon as reasonably practicable, hold a public hearing upon the matter, and shall affirm, reverse, or affirm with modifications, the decision of the PZDB.

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The hearing shall be conducted as a denovo hearing.

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Having reviewed the code language I will now review some core legal points, both for council and for those in the room.

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The first point surrounds the record on appeal.

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As noted, this appeal is a denovo hearing, meaning the parties present their cases from the beginning.

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The PZDB record and order being appealed are part of the record in this hearing.

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Further, the evidence and other materials submitted from any party by the seven-day deadline,

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the established in Council procedures rule 10J has been automatically included in the record.

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Parties need not move such records into evidence as they are already part of the record.

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If a party seeks to introduce a record not submitted by the deadline,

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her the council rules, the council will have to determine if it will accept such late record.

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Turning now to the steps in this appeal hearing, pursuant to village code section 2-407,

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the council's quasi-judicial procedures will control. The parts of this hearing are therefore

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as follows. Disclosure of X-parta communications by council members. Disclosure of any

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oath to all persons who will be providing testimony, brief introduction by staff and identification

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of affected parties.

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Presentation of Appalence affected parties.

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The Appalence affected party has the burden of convincing counsel through evidence and

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argument that the decision of the PZDB should be reversed based on the arguments raised

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in the appeal document filed with the village.

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Following the presentation of a balance,

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we'll be cross-examination of a balance,

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effective parties, if necessary.

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Next, village staff will present

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after staff's presentation.

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There will be cross-examination of village staff,

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if necessary.

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Finally, I'm sorry, the applicant,

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Developers presentation after the applicant developers completed their presentation that will be cross examination if necessary.

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Each presenting party shall be limited to 45 minutes. Cross examinations if any her party shall be limited to 10 minutes in total.

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Following party presentations, the chair will call for public comment. Public comments are limited to three minutes, and speakers must have filled out a speaker's card. After public comment closes, the chair may permit the appellants affected parties up to three minutes for brief rebuttal remarks.

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Pursuant to the Council's procedure rules after the parties have presented, and the public comment is closed,

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Council will introduce a motion, debate the motion, and vote on the question.

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Council members may ask questions of witnesses at any time.

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However, to ensure each party is afforded its full time, it is recommended that Council members hold questions until each party

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has finished its respective presentations. In a quasi-judicial setting, the strict rules of evidence

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do not apply. However, a party or a party's lawyer may make objections. The chair will rule

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on the objection and if necessary seek guidance from the village attorney. The council's decision

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shall be based on competent substantial evidence in the record of the proceeding and the applicable law.

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Following the hearing, the Council's decision shall be reduced to writing.

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Appeals of the Council's decision may be made by filing a petition for rid of

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surgery in the Circuit Court's appellate division as provided for in the Florida

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Rules of Appellate Procedure.

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With those ground rules in place, Maryland handed back over to you to begin the proceedings.

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Thank you.

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At this time, I will ask Council members, if any of them wish to disclose any ex-part-day

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communications, any of them may have had with the appeal

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pellet or developer applicant regarding this hearing.

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So why don't we start with the vice mayor and we'll go around.

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I have none, mayor.

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I have none.

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I have none.

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Do we need to disclose the discussion we had at the briefing with the

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village manager in the turning side part of expertise?

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I don't know that.

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Yeah, this is where you have talked to one of the parties,

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the developer, or the applicant.

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I did have discussions with Ms.

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Mike Kovsky prior to the appeal in a noted,

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but since then, I have not, and I have none.

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I need to say that I had conversations with several homeowners

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in the affected area.

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And that's in Shadowwood, the Brooks community, just to discuss their concerns they had.

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Other than that, I've had no communication with the developer.

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So that's there.

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So now I ask that any council members, if they need to declare a conflict of interest

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because the outcome of this hearing ensures to the members or members, families, special private gain.

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So we'll start again in Vice Mayor.

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have none. I have no conflict. I have none. I have none. I have none. I have none. No conflict. I have

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none. Also, I will now ask the clerk to administer the the old to all persons who will be providing

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testimony. Can everyone please stand?

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That will be speaking today. Anyone who's going to be providing

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testimony? Okay. Do you swear to tell the truth? The whole truth and nothing but the truth? So

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help you God?

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At this time village staff and land use council will briefly introduce the matter,

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including providing staff's analysis regarding which persons qualify as affected parties.

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Good morning everybody. Mary Gibbs from staff. I feel like I have never left since we were here

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last night, but I do want everybody to know I did change clothes. I would like to just spend a

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a couple minutes to do the brief overview of what this case is about and then just touch on this

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agreed parties issue. This is of course in appeal of the Brooks Town Center, APPE-2023-E-O-O-1,

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and this is the Brooks Town Center is located at the corner, northwest corner of Coconut

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Road, and three Oaks Parkway. The project is about 10 acres in size, just a little bit

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low ten acres, and it's the existing shopping center that has the vacant wind

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dixie property, I think everybody's familiar with that. Developers proposing to

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demolish the wind dixie part of the plaza and construct a multifamily

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building on the parking lot area on the east side of the site. They're proposing to

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build 137 units that was reduced from the 158 units that came to you in the

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proposal. Then they would retain the existing commercial businesses, as well as the

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fine mark bank. Again, this case is an appeal of the decision of the planning

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and zoning board that relates to the development order. The development order is

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the site plan approval, the engineered plans, the layout of the property. It's not

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the zoning. The zoning has already been established and I'm going to touch on that

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bit later, but there's a little bit of confusion about that. So planning zoning and design board

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approved the development order with conditions which was the staff conditions and they added

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an additional condition about the parking. The applicant did not agree with that decision of planning

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zoning and design board and that's why it's being appealed to council. So in the appeal and I think

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the attorney mentioned this, the council has three options. You can affirm the planning zoning

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design board decision, you can affirm it with modifications or you can reverse it.

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Staff is recommending that we affirm it, which means the development order would be approved

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with the same conditions that the planings on a design board had imposed when they

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heard the case.

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So let me move on just to what the degree of parties issue isn't what does that mean because

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it's a very legalistic and everybody's like, what does it agree with party?

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Now, planning is on a design board had reviewed this development order on October 10th.

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They approved it with conditions.

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There's a provision in the code as the attorney just mentioned that the grief party

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can file an appeal within 30 days of that decision.

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And that appeal was filed within 30 days by 37 residents of the Brooks and early days on,

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Mrs. Wyrowski has been early days on 37 people.

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So in the appeal, you know, we're going to listen to all the parties, that's what happens before you make any decision.

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But the grief parties is defined at our land development code, and it says anybody who has a legally recognizable interest,

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which may be adversely affected by an action of the village.

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So in order for the staff to determine who we think the affected parties or the grief parties are,

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To recommend to you, we took the list of the 37 applicants from the Brooks, and we made the list which we put in your packet and is also in line. It's a one-page list. It follows the staff report. It lists the 37 applicants. And then we looked at their addresses. And we looked on our computer system or GLS to see the proximity of the applicants to this project.

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So, going back and looking at that, we found that the closest neighbors are less than 500

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feet.

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There's five parties.

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There are two of them are within our 254 feet away from the project.

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One is 345 feet or two are, and one is 470 feet.

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And these neighbors are on Magnolia, for the most part, Magnolia Lane, which is just north

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of the projects, and there's a conservation area which separates the projects from Magnolia.

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There's one appellant who's over 800 feet, and the remaining 31 or over 1,000 feet away in

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different locations in the Brooks. So staff is recommending that the parties within 500 feet

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be considered the grief parties. And the reason for this is there, of course, the closest to the

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property. And then if you look at the case case law that the applicant supplied, which just shows

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that in many cases, when you're looking at a degree of party it might be the distance that

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you notify people about development order actions. So we notify people within 500 feet when

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we have a development order. So that seems to be a reasonable distance and is also supported

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by the case law.

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So what we're recommending is that these five

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appellants, Kathy Wyrowski, Rudolph Wyrowski, William Clark,

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Galeen Clark, and David Costello,

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be considered the degree of parties.

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And so if you agree with that, we'll go ahead

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and get started with the proceedings.

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We let the applicant talk first,

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unless you have any other questions for me.

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we have anybody object to that definition and I see, I see no council members, I see no council members and that's so.

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Go ahead and proceed.

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All right, so I think the first, we turned this over to the applicant now,

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which I think that way we'll be starting this off and then they get 45 minutes.

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We try to hold the questions into the end.

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Oh, I agree objecting, this is Steve Hartel, and he's here because Neil Montgomery couldn't be here to he represents the developer.

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I don't know if that's in order of what we've established.

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I believe that we were going to hear first from the grieved parties.

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I think he's wanting to make an objection.

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and he's not wanting to make a presentation.

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That's was that correct?

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OK, that's great.

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I'm going to break briefly for the record.

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I'm Steve Hartzel with Povies law firm.

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I'm here on behalf of the developers and owners

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of the Brooks Town Center apartments.

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As Mary pointed out, my partner, Neil Montgomery.

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I'm so good.

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Sorry.

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My partner, Neil Montgomery, is unable to be here

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because she's in the middle of another hearing,

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right at this moment. She would much rather be here, I'm sure. I do want to at least put on the

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record our objection to finding that any of these folks are agreed or adversely affected in any

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manner or degree greater than other members of the public. So we are not in agreement that any of them

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are a grieved parties. I don't want to go into a big presentation about that, but we at least

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wanted that to be on the record to the extent that that becomes an issue in the future.

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Thanks very much.

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Thank you.

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Okay.

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And why do that?

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The, um, now the appellants.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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I'm sorry.

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Yes.

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I think the applicant will want us to make a quick comment.

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Okay.

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I reject that we're not a grieved.

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00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:25,300
Oh, I'm sorry, Kathy.

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00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:26,160
Why, Ralphski?

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And by the way, are you married in?

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From Guardian?

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Thank you.

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We had a higher year, but I have to say, thank you.

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I think that there are many, many reasons why we are

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aggrieved, and I think they are in the presentation we

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would have given view, noise, lights, serenity, the peace,

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the security.

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There's so many reasons on top of the fact that we are within

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500 feet.

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So I disagree with Mr. Cartel, because I'm sorry.

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Thank you.

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We've heard from both parties on that.

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So now, we'll have the Appellates event and the effect of parties present their case.

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They will have a total of 45 minutes, which they will allocate among themselves if they desire.

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And I think we mentioned earlier that we will preserve the 45 minutes of time and counsel at the conclusion of their presentation.

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Will then ask any questions that are pertinent?

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Okay, thank you.

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I am Kathy Wyrowski, as you know, 1, 0, 0, 8, 9, Magnolia Ben, Shadowwood, the Brooks.

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Thank you for scheduling this hearing.

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I should be the principal presenter, but she'll be joined by Bill Clark, who will establish

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location density and later some applicable florida statutes.

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David Small will read the legal memorandum prepared for us by Ralph Brooks to be given in his absence.

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He will review our summary of the Bay Point, excuse me,

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incorporated versus Bay County case,

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and Mary Blakely, who will list areas of the development order

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that are inconsistent with the Estero Land Development Code.

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Before I begin, I would like to tell everyone present

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that I was told by the village that we would have an uninterrupted

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45 minutes in which to present material of our choice.

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When you consider the cumulative impact of these presentations,

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you cannot help in our minds but conclude

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with the development order, DOS 2023-E01O Brooks Town Center,

260
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lacked necessary authorization, under Florida, and local law,

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and therefore should be reversed or remanded.

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As Denobo means from the beginning or made from scratch,

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we hope you are here with an open mind to hear our appeal presentation.

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We must include a review of the process leading up

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to the approval of this development order

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as we will show it is crucial, not only to our appeal,

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but to the legality of this process.

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Many residents of the Brooks are disillusioned

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as we do not feel the villages acted

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in our best interests in this case.

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Our interests were not considered at all.

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And in fact, we'll be negatively affected

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by this development order and development.

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And before we continue,

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I wish to set the record straight.

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I refute that I have ever said that I use

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the conservation area as I do not.

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and to do so would be illegal.

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The conservation area owned by the CDD is for natural wildlife and vegetation and is not to be used by residents, other than to enjoy the view.

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Trespassing is illegal, hence are concerned with its proximity to the new development.

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As for my emails, I plead guilty. I plead guilty to being tireless in my determination to protect the rights of my neighbors and hope all officials and staff

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take that same approach to their responsibilities.

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00:23:04,220 --> 00:23:05,140
David Small.

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00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:14,370
Good morning. I'm David Small. I live at 1 0 0 5 5 Magnolia Bend in Shadowwood.

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I'm going to be reading the memorandum of law prepared by our attorney Ralph Brooks,

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as well as providing additional commentary on the relevance of the Bay Point versus Bay County case

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and why we believe it applies.

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Before I begin, I'd like to inform everyone here

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that I am not a lawyer in practice,

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00:23:33,690 --> 00:23:35,330
nor education or training.

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I have zero legal background.

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I'm simply here because we were not afforded the opportunity

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to schedule a date and time in which our attorney was available.

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I'll now read a summary that our attorney prepared for us.

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Development orders must be consistent with the comprehensive plan,

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even with a vested DRI. Once a local comprehensive plan is reviewed and found in compliance

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00:24:02,370 --> 00:24:08,330
by the State Land Planning Agency under the Growth Management Community Planning Act,

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the duly adopted local comprehensive plan is then controlling law. Once a comprehensive plan

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is adopted, all development orders must be consistent with the comprehensive plan pursuant

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00:24:22,090 --> 00:24:29,270
Florida statute. The Community Planning Act requires that a development order shall be consistent

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00:24:29,270 --> 00:24:36,770
with the comprehensive plan if the land uses densities or intensities and other aspects of the

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00:24:36,770 --> 00:24:42,870
development permitted by such order or regulation are compatible with and further the objectives,

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00:24:43,610 --> 00:24:50,730
policies, land uses and densities or intensities of the comprehensive plan. This has been made

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00:24:50,730 --> 00:24:54,470
abundantly clear in case law from the Florida Supreme Court.

305
00:24:55,230 --> 00:25:02,010
A DRI that does not contain a density limitation on multifamily use in the Brooks Town

306
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Center does not vest a particular density for a new multifamily use.

307
00:25:08,210 --> 00:25:14,610
In this case, any changes to the built-out town center, exchanging retail for multifamily,

308
00:25:14,610 --> 00:25:20,570
must be consistent with the density contained in the duly adopted comprehensive plan

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00:25:20,570 --> 00:25:25,830
future land use map, which happens to be hanging on the wall in this building.

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In particular, the designation limiting density to a maximum of four units per acre.

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Although section 163 provides that, nothing in this act shall limit or modify the rights of any person

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to complete any development that has been authorized as a development of regional impact pursuant to chapter 380 or who has been issued a final local development order and development has commenced and is acting in good faith.

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In 2004, the first district court of appeals made it clear that changes to a vested or built out the R.I. must be consistent with the comprehensive plan.

314
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The district court in the Bay Point opinion, which was issued after the Edgewater Beach

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00:26:15,010 --> 00:26:20,790
Owner's Association versus Walton County, it was made clear that changes to a vested

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or built out the R.I. must then be consistent with the comprehensive plan.

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00:26:26,390 --> 00:26:31,490
All development orders must be consistent with the comprehensive plan as the comprehensive

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00:26:31,490 --> 00:26:35,790
plan exists on the date of issuance of the development order.

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In evaluating an application for a development order, a local government cannot use a prior

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built-out portion of a DRI to invalidate a comprehensive plan designation and replace the

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00:26:50,370 --> 00:26:56,510
eradicated designation with whatever the local government sees fit to apply in a settlement

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agreement. Such a change can only be made under the plan amendment procedures of the act.

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00:27:02,590 --> 00:27:13,070
Even compliance with the zoning and land regulations is not sufficient to provide consistency with the maximum density contained in the comprehensive plan.

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00:27:14,390 --> 00:27:25,090
The Brooks DRI development order make it clear that any changes to the built-out completed town center shall be subject to the planned development rezoning process.

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All resonings must be consistent with the density sent forth in the comprehensive plan,

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limiting density to four units per acre for the town center property.

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00:27:36,610 --> 00:27:43,350
Further, resonings requiring procedural safeguards of two public readings that provide for due

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00:27:43,350 --> 00:27:49,810
process, and the initial burden is on the applicant to show by competent and substantial evidence

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00:27:49,810 --> 00:27:56,190
that the development order conforms strictly to the maximum density in the comprehensive plan.

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00:27:56,950 --> 00:28:03,610
I'd also like to briefly comment concerning Nancy Stroud's December 2023 memo. She challenged

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us on the meaning of the Bay Point versus Bay County case. We believe the holding is straightforward,

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00:28:10,410 --> 00:28:16,770
where a developer enjoys vested rights under a DRI, the development can proceed consistent with the

333
00:28:16,770 --> 00:28:23,630
R.I. notwithstanding changes in law. However, that protection does not extend to changes or variations

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from the D.R.I. that in themselves do not trigger the need for a further D.R.I., but which

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00:28:30,990 --> 00:28:36,990
conflict with current law such as a subsequently established comprehensive plan? In other words,

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00:28:37,130 --> 00:28:42,710
you start with the development that is going to have a regional impact. That forces and requires

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00:28:42,710 --> 00:28:49,450
a developer to go through the expensive and time-consuming DRI process. However once through it,

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00:28:49,570 --> 00:28:55,810
the developer enjoys the right to construct what has been approved in the DRI. That right is

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vested so that subsequent changes in the law do not trump that right, which would otherwise require

340
00:29:01,290 --> 00:29:08,250
the developer to go back through the DRI process again. If, however, the developer makes changes

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00:29:08,250 --> 00:29:13,870
in the development that our minor in the sense they would not trigger another DRI review,

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00:29:14,570 --> 00:29:20,150
those changes are not immune from compliance with local standards such as a comprehensive

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00:29:20,150 --> 00:29:26,230
plan. Even if the comprehensive plan was put in place subsequent to the original DRI.

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00:29:27,130 --> 00:29:32,370
It would be nonsensical to say that something that did not exist when the vested right was created

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00:29:32,370 --> 00:29:39,310
could be vested. That makes sense in that everything should be subject to review. The DRI is

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00:29:39,310 --> 00:29:45,170
the review for the original plan. Significant changes that are major would be reviewed in a new

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00:29:45,170 --> 00:29:51,750
DRI, but minor changes would simply slip through the cracks unless they were subject to local

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00:29:51,750 --> 00:29:57,350
standard such as the comprehensive plan. Thank you. I appreciate your time. I will turn it over to

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00:29:57,350 --> 00:29:57,730
New York.

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00:30:04,110 --> 00:30:11,570
My name is Bill Clark. I live at 1 0 0 9 7 Magnolia Ben, and good morning and council members.

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00:30:13,070 --> 00:30:22,270
The comprehensive plan of the village of Astero was established in 2018, amended in 2019, and by 2020 was fully recognized by the State of Florida.

352
00:30:22,430 --> 00:30:29,530
On the screen, you can see if we can get it. And you can see the future.

353
00:30:29,530 --> 00:30:30,530
Oh, did you want me to...

354
00:30:30,610 --> 00:30:31,110
Just keep going.

355
00:30:32,970 --> 00:30:35,530
You can see the hanging...

356
00:30:36,670 --> 00:30:40,430
On the screen, you can see the future land use map of a sterile.

357
00:30:41,230 --> 00:30:45,830
And all the books, including towns in our clearly in the village, one neighborhood.

358
00:30:46,290 --> 00:30:47,190
And that's what we saw.

359
00:30:47,570 --> 00:30:51,090
And I think what David referred to on the hallways we came in.

360
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:56,520
We're going to change that.

361
00:30:59,030 --> 00:30:59,290
OK.

362
00:30:59,910 --> 00:31:00,430
Thank you.

363
00:31:00,930 --> 00:31:01,550
Didn't get that.

364
00:31:02,290 --> 00:31:02,770
OK.

365
00:31:02,770 --> 00:31:05,850
A second map, which I don't know if I have it.

366
00:31:09,250 --> 00:31:15,930
This map is the sterile land development code map, and it's inconsistent with the future land use map.

367
00:31:17,790 --> 00:31:28,550
As this is not the form to create the required consistency, we simply pass out a note that the zoning map was amended in 2021 and is inconsistent with the future land use map.

368
00:31:28,550 --> 00:31:31,430
We'd like to see this inconsistency corrected.

369
00:31:32,130 --> 00:31:36,010
Density was not addressed in the DRI for the Town Center.

370
00:31:36,650 --> 00:31:40,910
It is the comprehensive plan that determines density in the comprehensive plan for a

371
00:31:40,910 --> 00:31:43,090
era specifically states.

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00:31:43,770 --> 00:31:48,730
Predominant land uses in Village 1 neighborhood will be lowered density residential uses

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00:31:48,730 --> 00:31:53,750
with the potential to allow for minor commercial or limited neighborhood commercial.

374
00:31:53,750 --> 00:32:01,310
Also assisted living facilities, public and quasi-public uses, in each case through a public hearing process.

375
00:32:01,950 --> 00:32:05,210
Higher densities, greater than four dwelling units per acre.

376
00:32:05,810 --> 00:32:11,230
Commercial development greater than neighborhood centers in industrial land uses are not permitted.

377
00:32:12,010 --> 00:32:16,890
The standard dense range is from one dwelling unit per acre to four dwelling unit per acres.

378
00:32:17,410 --> 00:32:19,470
Bonus densities are not allowed.

379
00:32:19,470 --> 00:32:24,850
This is reinforced by the chart in the comp plan, and I'll now turn it over to Kathy.

380
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:30,760
Kathy, why Rothschaden?

381
00:32:32,460 --> 00:32:36,940
In order to understand the key to our appeal, we need to discuss some history.

382
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:42,640
The chronology Mary Gibbs has prepared is missing some crucial details in our mind.

383
00:32:43,900 --> 00:32:47,700
While Nancy Stroud showed calls against this development in 2022,

384
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,460
we believe that two important arguments were left out.

385
00:32:54,120 --> 00:33:08,560
The 200 additional units granted to the DRI for the Oak Brook project in 2013 were specific to the land referred to as the Martini glass parcel of the Brooks that is now pebble point.

386
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:38,120
Lee County, DRI, 2012, 0019, and DRI, 2012, 0039, excuse me, specified the specific location, including the strap number, 1147, 25, 0000, 001, 000, and provided a drawing of the site for the approved additional 200 units.

387
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:43,560
This strapped number is specific to the Pebble Point Oakbrook property.

388
00:33:44,420 --> 00:33:48,200
Further, it expressly mandated master plan consistency.

389
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:50,980
Lee Counties at that time.

390
00:33:51,740 --> 00:33:55,600
Indeed, there was a further restriction of these additional units.

391
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,600
Section B conditions of the approval states specifically.

392
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:06,020
And this is the hearing examiner and is in the hearing examiner's report recommendations as well.

393
00:34:06,020 --> 00:34:34,260
All administrative approvals granted after the adoption of Zoning Resolution Z-97-037 as amended also remain in full force and effect, except the use of multi-family mid-rise is not a permitted use, and this use is removed from the approved schedule of uses and priority, a property development regulations on the master concept plan.

394
00:34:34,260 --> 00:34:43,160
The definition of mid-rise family, multifamily residences at that time in Lee County, MCP, is three to ten stories.

395
00:34:44,240 --> 00:34:53,880
Removing this requires that all of the residences built with any of the 200 additional units must be one to two stories in height.

396
00:34:54,440 --> 00:35:02,660
This is equivalent to the current Estero LDC requirement for low density building heights of 35 feet and never 50 feet.

397
00:35:02,660 --> 00:35:09,040
The county explained that this condition was to keep the new development compatible with the rest of the Brooks.

398
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:16,520
Further, in her petition to Lee County for the additional units for Pebble Point, Ms. Montgomery stated,

399
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,680
adding those 200 units don't have an impact.

400
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,020
I think we would all disagree with that.

401
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:30,140
She goes on to say that adding the units is necessary in order to develop the actually develop the property.

402
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:35,320
In Chip's staff report he indicates that there's 48 units left.

403
00:35:35,820 --> 00:35:41,700
This refers to the university units left in the 1997 DRI, for the Brooks.

404
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:47,140
She said further, but you know, when most of the property in here was sold, it was sold

405
00:35:47,140 --> 00:35:48,620
with an allocation of units.

406
00:35:49,100 --> 00:35:53,320
So it was not to get any kind of legal entanglement with anybody else if we don't think

407
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:54,900
those can be developed anywhere.

408
00:35:56,020 --> 00:36:00,120
She also stated, this is just the 200 units that will

409
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:07,520
on the subject property. She later confirmed as you have heard it's a developed area. It's an

410
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:16,100
essentially built out DRI. The festive rights for the Brooks DRI expired with the final development

411
00:36:16,100 --> 00:36:23,500
order of Pebble Point. It is fully developed. It used the remaining 48 units and an additional

412
00:36:23,500 --> 00:36:28,560
site-specific 42 units for a total of 90 residential units.

413
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,360
That left 158 unused units.

414
00:36:34,540 --> 00:36:39,440
The development plan for townset are started with 157 units using the same lawyer in the

415
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:40,820
same engineering company.

416
00:36:41,940 --> 00:36:46,400
Indeed, the engineering company designed the original town center under the Brooks DRI around

417
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:47,260
2008.

418
00:36:47,260 --> 00:36:53,580
The town center was completed, per the DRI, and received a final development order.

419
00:36:54,420 --> 00:37:03,600
These extra units cannot be transferred from strapped number 1147-25001.00000.

420
00:37:04,620 --> 00:37:05,840
What is now Pebble Point?

421
00:37:06,780 --> 00:37:10,200
To change the land use and density on the town center site,

422
00:37:10,580 --> 00:37:13,100
requires a rezoning or comp plan amendment.

423
00:37:13,100 --> 00:37:18,240
Both of which would have been easy to fight on compatibility and density.

424
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:25,020
But the signing of the settlement agreement removed these requirements and removed your policing power.

425
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,680
That said, because this claim was not justified, it seems misleading.

426
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:36,820
A possible deceptive to us. The development order, and we believe the very settlement agreement, should be void.

427
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:47,780
Clearly, any residential development approved in the future at Town Center, or in the Brooks-DRI or Compland, must be one to two stories, or a maximum of 35 feet at all.

428
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:57,720
Further, the billed out date for the DRI's expired. There are no remaining DRI vested rights, as all additional were cite, specific only.

429
00:38:12,020 --> 00:38:21,160
Good morning. My name is Marianne Blakely. I live at 1-0-0-39, Magnolia Ben, and Chadwood.

430
00:38:22,420 --> 00:38:25,320
Right behind the proposed complex.

431
00:38:28,240 --> 00:38:34,140
The approved development order is inconsistent with a sterile land development code.

432
00:38:34,140 --> 00:38:37,140
And the Estero Master Comprehensive Plan.

433
00:38:38,220 --> 00:38:44,580
The LDC numbers, I will be referring to, are from the land development code of the village of Estero.

434
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:51,740
First, let's review the deviations provided by the planning zoning in design board.

435
00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:57,040
Number one, the deviation from land development code,

436
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:05,920
table 5, dash 204, b1, minimum number of street parking was reduced by 21 spaces.

437
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:11,060
Reduced from the minimum. We have already been told,

438
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:15,200
of parking issues at the Town Center merchants are not happy.

439
00:39:16,720 --> 00:39:24,260
Weir will the residents and their guests park. This is not an urban area with other parking

440
00:39:24,260 --> 00:39:24,840
choices.

441
00:39:27,900 --> 00:39:34,900
There is no neighborhood parking accessible. This is a serious safety issue. Without ample

442
00:39:34,900 --> 00:39:41,520
parking residents may be forced to park along three oaks in coconut. Not only is this illegal,

443
00:39:42,300 --> 00:39:48,400
but it could cause a tremendous safety issue for residents of the Brooks. As you know, this is already

444
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:55,640
a very busy intersection, especially at high traffic hours. And it will only get more so with

445
00:39:55,640 --> 00:40:01,620
planned development at 41 in Coconut. This deviation clearly only helps the land developer

446
00:40:01,620 --> 00:40:09,140
and land owner and developer add more units that are feasible on the site. This is a huge

447
00:40:09,140 --> 00:40:10,860
negative for us residents.

448
00:40:13,610 --> 00:40:20,250
Number two, the deviation approved from the LDC 7-206 is not to

449
00:40:20,250 --> 00:40:25,390
current code. This clearly is just for the convenience of the land owner and the builder.

450
00:40:25,390 --> 00:40:29,190
and could be a future issue with future hurricanes.

451
00:40:30,510 --> 00:40:32,950
All elevation must be to current code.

452
00:40:34,070 --> 00:40:37,350
This is clear in consistency and should not be allowed.

453
00:40:38,570 --> 00:40:39,350
Number 3.

454
00:40:40,030 --> 00:40:43,890
The third deviation once again is not in the interest of us residents.

455
00:40:43,890 --> 00:40:56,710
LDC 5-604-C, table 5-604-C, list the maximum allowed height for exterior lighter lighting

456
00:40:56,710 --> 00:41:03,610
to be 15 feet. But again, the board approved a higher height of 20 feet. This clearly

457
00:41:03,610 --> 00:41:10,510
will be disruptive to current residents in our wildlife adjacent to our preserve and should

458
00:41:10,510 --> 00:41:19,150
be allowed. The conservation areas behind the town center contain much wildlife, some of which is

459
00:41:19,150 --> 00:41:24,750
federally and stated protected. Indeed, we would argue for more restrictive lighting in this

460
00:41:24,750 --> 00:41:31,810
development as any lighting would clearly be seen in dams the view and serenity of the nearby neighbors.

461
00:41:33,210 --> 00:41:41,790
Other inconsistencies include number four, LDC Section 155.

462
00:41:42,290 --> 00:41:48,590
The land use map may list multi-use for the land, but the density is detailed in the

463
00:41:48,590 --> 00:41:49,090
compound.

464
00:41:50,250 --> 00:41:57,370
The land development code section 155 requires consistency with the comprehensive plan and states

465
00:41:57,370 --> 00:42:04,690
this LDC is intended to ensure that all development within the village is consistent with the

466
00:42:04,690 --> 00:42:12,070
goals, objectives, and policies in future land use maya, and value m of the comprehensive plan.

467
00:42:13,290 --> 00:42:20,510
Where there are clear conflicts between the comprehensive plan and this LDC, the comprehensive plan

468
00:42:20,510 --> 00:42:21,270
Shell Control.

469
00:42:22,690 --> 00:42:26,790
This development is entirely inconsistent with the density required

470
00:42:26,790 --> 00:42:28,690
in the comprehensive plan.

471
00:42:38,890 --> 00:42:41,770
Future section 1, 502 states.

472
00:42:42,970 --> 00:42:46,190
All development permits, as defined in state law,

473
00:42:46,650 --> 00:42:48,450
including by not limited to developments

474
00:42:48,450 --> 00:42:51,130
of regional impact, the Allies, amendments

475
00:42:51,130 --> 00:42:54,590
to the zoning districts, maps, rezoning, plan,

476
00:42:54,990 --> 00:42:55,930
development, et cetera.

477
00:42:56,670 --> 00:42:58,970
Shell be consistent with the comprehensive plan.

478
00:42:58,970 --> 00:43:04,090
Number five, LDC3-301A.

479
00:43:04,950 --> 00:43:12,870
Requires that development must provide appropriately located lands for residential development

480
00:43:12,870 --> 00:43:20,050
that are consistent with the goals, policies, and objectives of the comprehensive plan

481
00:43:20,050 --> 00:43:22,730
against this development order is not consistent.

482
00:43:23,730 --> 00:43:27,730
Number six, LDC3-301E.

483
00:43:27,730 --> 00:43:33,030
We inquire that residential neighborhoods are protected from incompatible development.

484
00:43:33,710 --> 00:43:40,130
Clearly, this fourth story, 134 unit apartment complex in the middle of the residential

485
00:43:40,130 --> 00:43:44,690
bricks of village neighborhood one is again clearly inconsistent.

486
00:43:46,090 --> 00:43:49,730
Number 7, LDC3301.

487
00:43:50,070 --> 00:43:51,430
Residential districts.

488
00:43:51,430 --> 00:43:56,850
We have clearly shown town center in all of the books to be in the village neighborhood

489
00:43:57,410 --> 00:43:57,770
one.

490
00:43:58,290 --> 00:44:04,670
Have a maximum building height of 35 feet and density maximum of 4 dwelling units per acre.

491
00:44:05,570 --> 00:44:10,870
This development order allows for 50 foot high residential height, clearly inconsistent,

492
00:44:11,430 --> 00:44:14,230
and clearly not in the interest of us neighbors.

493
00:44:15,190 --> 00:44:19,710
And residents, we will have apartment dwellers that can look right into my neighbor's

494
00:44:19,710 --> 00:44:22,570
records, privacy and views are being destroyed.

495
00:44:23,110 --> 00:44:24,750
This is completely unacceptable.

496
00:44:26,310 --> 00:44:31,230
Number eight, LDC-3303.

497
00:44:31,750 --> 00:44:35,790
Requires district regulations to discourage development

498
00:44:36,270 --> 00:44:38,990
that substantially interferes with the quiet residential

499
00:44:38,990 --> 00:44:42,130
nature of the district, and this will clearly interfere

500
00:44:42,130 --> 00:44:46,030
with our quiet and with all the quiet nature

501
00:44:46,030 --> 00:44:47,470
of the preserve in general.

502
00:44:47,470 --> 00:44:59,970
Number nine, LDC-703, requires that residential districts will be consistent with the goals, policies, and objectives in the comprehensive plan.

503
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:12,340
Number 10, 4-101. As the entire 9-plus acre lot is being considered, as one due to the ownership contract, the site

504
00:45:12,340 --> 00:45:20,220
cannot contain more than the single principle used for a lot. It is inconsistent with part of the land development code.

505
00:45:23,130 --> 00:45:33,450
11. LDC-408C. We require that this plan have 35% open space, but it does not.

506
00:45:34,230 --> 00:45:41,210
12. Earlier we passed out a page from LDC with an illustration. I'd like to show you

507
00:45:41,210 --> 00:45:48,850
the look at the LDC figure 5-706B building transition. Clearly this forest story building

508
00:45:48,850 --> 00:45:56,570
to the town center shops meets the do not do this illustration, another major inconsistency.

509
00:45:57,670 --> 00:46:05,410
This builder building will forever be an isor in the Brooks. It is far too large and will be a

510
00:46:05,410 --> 00:46:14,470
visual blight. Number 13. Parking recommendations in the astero-compliance of plan for buildings

511
00:46:14,470 --> 00:46:16,610
of this type are not being followed.

512
00:46:19,380 --> 00:46:21,840
There are more, but these are the fundamental flaw,

513
00:46:22,020 --> 00:46:26,620
and density allowance that enough reason to avoid this development order as inconsistent.

514
00:46:30,270 --> 00:46:34,850
We are furious that our interests have not been considered.

515
00:46:36,550 --> 00:46:41,430
You have the responsibility to protect our interests in our quality of life.

516
00:46:41,430 --> 00:46:46,910
This development and this process are doing just the exact opposite.

517
00:46:47,950 --> 00:46:53,170
You are damaging our quality of life and the value of our homes and this is unacceptable.

518
00:46:54,830 --> 00:47:00,690
I'm sure that if you asked the majority of people that are in this room right now, they

519
00:47:00,690 --> 00:47:06,850
would definitely tell you that this is not in your residence best interest.

520
00:47:07,590 --> 00:47:08,210
Thank you.

521
00:47:15,950 --> 00:47:17,750
Kathy Wairovsky.

522
00:47:19,410 --> 00:47:21,270
This was not a transparent process.

523
00:47:22,230 --> 00:47:26,890
There were no public meetings or discussions of this project or its litigation for two years.

524
00:47:27,570 --> 00:47:31,130
And you knew that the residents of the Brooks were very interested.

525
00:47:32,650 --> 00:47:36,830
We were to believe there was no discussion, no work around, no legal counsel.

526
00:47:37,990 --> 00:47:42,230
Thank you, Mayor McLean, for being the only council member to care enough to investigate

527
00:47:42,230 --> 00:47:45,930
our situation and to show any concern for our interests.

528
00:47:46,930 --> 00:47:51,570
Last week, you visited with me and seven of my neighbors to see how negatively impacted

529
00:47:51,570 --> 00:47:52,890
we will be.

530
00:47:54,110 --> 00:47:59,270
However, when one of the neighbors asked Mary McLean, how this process could have taken place

531
00:47:59,270 --> 00:48:06,050
without meetings or even shade meetings, you did tell us that at least two executive sessions

532
00:48:06,050 --> 00:48:11,530
were held to discuss the ongoing litigation, which I believe.

533
00:48:12,430 --> 00:48:16,930
But then why, when Ralph Brooks and I asked this specific question, did Village Council

534
00:48:16,930 --> 00:48:23,190
Rob Eschenfelder right back and say, the Village Council did not conduct a litigation

535
00:48:23,190 --> 00:48:25,190
shade meeting related to this matter.

536
00:48:25,930 --> 00:48:30,310
There are therefore no records responsive to your request.

537
00:48:31,830 --> 00:48:35,630
We believe scheduling meetings that are this important to the public at a time when they

538
00:48:35,630 --> 00:48:38,170
are not in Florida is unreasonable.

539
00:48:39,290 --> 00:48:44,810
Being told that approval is expected prior to public involvement is unfair.

540
00:48:45,890 --> 00:48:50,510
Being denied prior participation in proceedings for an invalid reason is wrong.

541
00:48:51,450 --> 00:48:56,970
You know I did not have to be the only or the most adversely affected individual, yet that

542
00:48:56,970 --> 00:49:01,570
was allowed to stand by staff, village, council, and the board.

543
00:49:02,530 --> 00:49:06,790
The planning zoning and design board chairman didn't know where developments are in the

544
00:49:06,790 --> 00:49:10,650
Stero when he incorrectly stated at the October 10th meeting that the four-story apartment

545
00:49:10,650 --> 00:49:15,410
complex at Williams Road and via coconut was in the Brooks DRI.

546
00:49:16,410 --> 00:49:21,470
Engineer Car Charles Krebs of Holmonties told the public and the board at that same meeting

547
00:49:21,470 --> 00:49:26,790
that there exists a wooden fence all along the conservation land border and town centre.

548
00:49:26,790 --> 00:49:28,670
This is untrue.

549
00:49:29,590 --> 00:49:32,790
There were additional false statements at that October meeting.

550
00:49:40,930 --> 00:49:43,750
Again, I'm a bill clerk on Magnolia.

551
00:49:44,910 --> 00:49:51,410
Per Florida Statue 112.3143, any elected or appointed officer shall make reasonable effort

552
00:49:51,410 --> 00:49:56,610
to disclose the nature of his or her interest as a public record in a memorandum filed with

553
00:49:56,610 --> 00:50:01,570
the person responsible for recording the minutes of the meeting, who shall incorporate the memorandum

554
00:50:01,570 --> 00:50:02,210
in the minutes.

555
00:50:02,210 --> 00:50:06,090
The memorandum must be filed in the later than 15 days after the vote.

556
00:50:06,590 --> 00:50:12,090
No officers shall vote in an official capacity upon any measure which would endure to his or

557
00:50:12,090 --> 00:50:14,010
his or her special private gain or loss.

558
00:50:14,670 --> 00:50:20,970
It would seem inappropriate once an officer is received a gain from work that they could then

559
00:50:20,970 --> 00:50:26,650
think they have no conflict when discussing or voting on the very project that provided this gain.

560
00:50:27,110 --> 00:50:31,930
The statute goes on to require any such memorandum shall become a public record immediately

561
00:50:31,930 --> 00:50:37,110
provided to other agency members, and Shelby Red publicly at the next meeting held subsequent

562
00:50:37,110 --> 00:50:39,430
to the filing of the written memorandum.

563
00:50:40,130 --> 00:50:44,910
For the record, participate means any attempt to influence a decision whenever a public

564
00:50:44,910 --> 00:50:49,870
officer is being considered for appointment or reappointment, the appointing body shall

565
00:50:49,870 --> 00:50:55,150
consider the number and nature of the memorandum and conflict previously filed.

566
00:50:55,750 --> 00:51:01,090
In October, Kathy printed out all of the minutes of the last two years, in no case, was

567
00:51:01,090 --> 00:51:05,550
form 8B attached or an oral disclosure included.

568
00:51:06,490 --> 00:51:12,870
How are pointed officials being screened for conflicts without required declarations and declaration forms?

569
00:51:14,090 --> 00:51:20,570
Florida statute 112.311 states that no officer shall have any interest, financial or otherwise

570
00:51:20,570 --> 00:51:26,410
director and director engage in any business transaction or professional activity or

571
00:51:26,410 --> 00:51:33,370
in current obligation of any nature, which is a substantial conflict with the proper discharge

572
00:51:33,370 --> 00:51:40,830
of his or her duties in the public interest, recognizing that promoting the public interest

573
00:51:40,830 --> 00:51:45,150
and maintaining the respect of the people in the government must be the foremost concern.

574
00:51:46,330 --> 00:51:51,130
Please note that Mr. Barry Jones was listed as a shareholder of the engineering firm of

575
00:51:51,130 --> 00:51:55,070
Montes, when he was re-appointed to the board in 2021.

576
00:51:56,370 --> 00:52:01,090
Whole Montes designed the site for the Town Center apartment complex, which was presented

577
00:52:01,090 --> 00:52:04,550
as town in 2020 and 2021.

578
00:52:05,730 --> 00:52:10,530
Mr. Jones made the motion to approve the final development order and voted to approve

579
00:52:10,530 --> 00:52:11,290
it.

580
00:52:13,570 --> 00:52:18,330
While Nancy Schraud writes that this vote may not have mattered, it doesn't make any

581
00:52:18,330 --> 00:52:18,750
difference.

582
00:52:19,330 --> 00:52:21,930
It's like going through a red light getting pulled over by a cop.

583
00:52:21,930 --> 00:52:25,290
Well, I didn't have an accident, you know, it's against the rules.

584
00:52:25,770 --> 00:52:29,970
I'm in the security's business. I'm subject to a lot of rules. Complain...

585
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:37,740
With conflicts. If I'm on a board, I can't have anything to do with any other benefit businesses. Otherwise, I could get in a lot of trouble.

586
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:53,860
So conflicts of interest are important to enforce. As of the September 12th to 20th, as of the September 12th, 2023 meeting, Mr. Michael Sheely recluse himself from voting on a manner concerning the Abidite dental building.

587
00:52:53,860 --> 00:53:03,640
No declatory detail was provided, still no form AP is attached to the minutes, and no declaration was read at the next meeting, though his firm designed to the building.

588
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:09,820
There are other similar cases, but in the interest of time, I'm not going to go through these.

589
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:18,080
In summary, we do not believe that there are any remaining vested rights in the 1997 or the 2013 DRI Resolutions.

590
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:24,440
All additional 200 units added in the 2013 were site-specific for the town and not for the town center.

591
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:29,140
If further condition was that the building height could only be two stories maximum,

592
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:33,560
so that these residents could be compatible with the Brooks current density.

593
00:53:33,720 --> 00:53:37,460
Further, we think that the R.A. buildout time extension is expired.

594
00:53:37,860 --> 00:53:41,580
This may have contributed to the Russia meetings and decisions this year,

595
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:45,040
and this development order clearly required a rezoning application

596
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:50,340
in comprehensive plan application, which, of course, would have been challenged and required

597
00:53:50,340 --> 00:53:54,240
to comply with the 2018 Astero Comprehensive Plan.

598
00:53:54,880 --> 00:54:01,280
Density was not specified in the DRI, but it is specified in the Astero Comprehensive Master Plan.

599
00:54:01,700 --> 00:54:06,740
The Astero Future Land Use Map puts all the Brooks, including a town center village, clearly

600
00:54:06,740 --> 00:54:10,380
in neighborhood one, an area of low density, no exceptions.

601
00:54:10,380 --> 00:54:16,060
This restricts the town center and all the books to the maximum of 35 feet.

602
00:54:16,340 --> 00:54:19,980
There are many inconsistencies with the deltment order in the land development

603
00:54:19,980 --> 00:54:24,500
code of a sterile providing further cause for appeal of the approval.

604
00:54:25,420 --> 00:54:29,500
Kathy wrote to the land owners and the developer this past summer and asked that

605
00:54:29,500 --> 00:54:33,580
they would meet with the residents to discuss better options or more compatible

606
00:54:33,580 --> 00:54:35,140
options for the town center.

607
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:37,480
We have never had any response.

608
00:54:37,940 --> 00:54:39,520
We were not involved in the process.

609
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:43,200
My view is directly across from this development.

610
00:54:44,020 --> 00:54:48,840
I can hear right now when they pick up the garbage and so on in the noise.

611
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:52,160
This building height will be above the tree line.

612
00:54:52,420 --> 00:54:54,980
I will see this development very clearly.

613
00:54:55,800 --> 00:55:03,180
It will change the value and the enjoyment of my home that I was hoping that the city council would defend.

614
00:55:04,590 --> 00:55:10,870
Not to mention the extreme disruption of that this development will cause.

615
00:55:12,670 --> 00:55:18,330
In the middle of a completely developed, site near residents, we have a nice conservation area across

616
00:55:18,330 --> 00:55:20,550
us that butts right up to this development.

617
00:55:21,130 --> 00:55:27,850
There will be noise pollution made worse by the sound coming across the lake between the two

618
00:55:27,850 --> 00:55:34,570
properties that we're talking about and we've heard many residents that have not that would

619
00:55:34,570 --> 00:55:36,730
We'd like to have a different option

620
00:55:36,730 --> 00:55:38,950
explored for this development, and we haven't

621
00:55:38,950 --> 00:55:39,450
had so.

622
00:55:39,850 --> 00:55:40,570
Thank you.

623
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:49,420
I would like to ask the audience not to clap

624
00:55:49,420 --> 00:55:52,800
after all these, this is a serious matter that

625
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:55,280
we're dealing with, and that's just not appropriate.

626
00:55:55,740 --> 00:55:56,380
So, thank you.

627
00:55:56,600 --> 00:55:57,220
Please abstain.

628
00:55:58,220 --> 00:55:59,440
Kathy, why are off-scaling?

629
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:03,440
The development order should not have been approved.

630
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:07,540
It was basically pre-approved by Village Council

631
00:56:07,540 --> 00:56:09,860
via the settlement agreement before it was presented

632
00:56:09,860 --> 00:56:12,020
to the planning zoning and design board.

633
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:18,600
Safety and security for both the conservation area and the residents of Shadowwood should have

634
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:20,960
been resolved prior to any agreement.

635
00:56:22,860 --> 00:56:28,000
The village council bargained away policing power as well as the necessity to resume.

636
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:31,800
Residents and their interests were never considered.

637
00:56:33,180 --> 00:56:38,460
The settlement agreement and the development order clearly only favor the land owner and developer.

638
00:56:38,460 --> 00:56:44,240
Land that they had already developed per the original intentions of the DRI.

639
00:56:44,980 --> 00:56:49,780
If this inconsistency is allowed, we will be putting out the welcome act for developers

640
00:56:49,780 --> 00:56:52,740
and many more unnecessary legal complexities.

641
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:57,900
The residents put their trust in town council to protect them.

642
00:56:58,220 --> 00:57:01,800
Town council has a responsibility to protect them.

643
00:57:02,380 --> 00:57:07,880
The very incorporation of a store was to be based on transparency, resident interest,

644
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:16,100
and involvement and responsible development. We have a comprehensive plan, specifying, density,

645
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:23,160
and intensity of our land, and this document must be followed. No development in village neighborhood

646
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:31,420
one can exceed four dwelling units per acre, and no multi-family building can exceed 35 feet.

647
00:57:31,420 --> 00:57:38,780
No vested rights remain in the Brooks DRI, and if they did, they would be site specific

648
00:57:38,780 --> 00:57:45,840
to strap number, don't think I need to repeat it, which is now the pebble point community.

649
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:53,380
Even if residences could be built, they would be restricted both per the DRI amendment and

650
00:57:53,380 --> 00:58:01,320
her the comp plan to a minimum of two stories, both the site plan, settlement agreement, and

651
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:08,240
therefore development order lack good faith, resident protection, and in our mind's

652
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:10,340
necessary authority under the law.

653
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:11,520
Thank you.

654
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:18,140
As that concludes your presentation.

655
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:19,680
Thank you.

656
00:58:19,900 --> 00:58:25,040
Now that the Appellates and the affected parties have concluded, does the village staff wish

657
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:27,380
to cross-examine any witness.

658
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:33,720
I believe I'll just address some of my comments

659
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:35,800
when I have my 45 minutes.

660
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:37,260
Okay, thank you.

661
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:40,320
And does the applicant develop or wish to cross-examine

662
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:41,480
any witness?

663
00:58:45,940 --> 00:58:46,440
No, sir.

664
00:58:47,540 --> 00:58:48,160
Thank you.

665
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:51,600
So at this time, I will ask the village staff

666
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:53,260
to present their case.

667
00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:55,940
They shall have a total of 45 minutes.

668
00:59:00,140 --> 00:59:02,640
We're gonna have Nancy Stroud will start

669
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:04,080
and then I will fall off.

670
00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:08,740
Madam Clerk, we'll start the time now.

671
00:59:10,740 --> 00:59:11,220
Good morning.

672
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:18,460
I just want to make a few introductory comments before Mary gets up.

673
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:26,560
And mostly want to emphasize what the Village Council is here to decide in this appeal.

674
00:59:27,140 --> 00:59:33,720
Because you've heard a lot about a number of issues that the petitioners are concerned about,

675
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:37,440
But unfortunately, are not subject to this appeal.

676
00:59:38,300 --> 00:59:41,420
They've complaints, for example, about so-called conflicts,

677
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:42,740
of which there were none.

678
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:47,020
So-called shade meetings of which there were none.

679
00:59:47,860 --> 00:59:53,520
Issues related to zoning vested rights.

680
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:59,160
All of those issues are not subject to this appeal.

681
00:59:59,160 --> 00:59:59,940
this this.

682
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:11,860
Appeal is repeal of the PCBB development order approval. And the village council is here to decide whether that development order should be approved.

683
01:00:12,820 --> 01:00:29,320
And the competence substantial evidence that Mary will give, and it has given in the documentation before you will show that the proposed development order meets all of the relevant land development code.

684
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:34,260
regulations, including the deviations and should be approved.

685
01:00:36,300 --> 01:00:39,420
I do want to also say something

686
01:00:39,420 --> 01:00:48,200
about complaint consistency, because I think that the petitioners clearly have the consistency

687
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:58,640
issue incorrect. And that's based on the case that there are attorney brought to you and his

688
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:07,280
of the Bay Point club case. The Bay Point club case says that when there is an authorized

689
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:19,220
DRI, this is an authorized DRI. Any change to that what is authorized in the DRI has to be reviewed

690
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:28,440
pursuant to the current comprehensive plan. There are whole argument fails because there is no

691
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:31,740
change to what is authorized in this DRI.

692
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:36,200
The DRI authorizes the multifamily use.

693
01:01:36,820 --> 01:01:38,720
It authorizes the height.

694
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:41,520
It authorizes the number of units.

695
01:01:41,660 --> 01:01:46,700
In fact, more units than what the DO has approved.

696
01:01:47,660 --> 01:01:53,100
So because there's no change, all the testimony that was provided

697
01:01:53,100 --> 01:01:57,920
It is irrelevant regarding the comprehensive plan.

698
01:01:58,860 --> 01:02:07,740
DRIs have a special status under the Florida Statutes, under the Village Charter, under

699
01:02:07,740 --> 01:02:09,300
the Village Complian.

700
01:02:09,900 --> 01:02:16,120
The Village Complian, the current Village Complian, recognizes what the Statutes provide,

701
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:21,060
which is the Vestergrites of Development of Regional Impact.

702
01:02:21,060 --> 01:02:34,340
So, I appreciate that the testimony of the petitioners is heartfelt and is of concern to them.

703
01:02:35,180 --> 01:02:44,400
I think the problem is that their testimony is not substantial competent evidence in regard to what's happening in this appeal today.

704
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:52,280
substantial, competent evidence has to be evidence that is relevant to the issue before you.

705
01:02:52,960 --> 01:03:05,280
And nothing that has been provided today is evidence that really goes to the requirements to approve a development order, a site plan.

706
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:10,000
It's also not in legal terms competent.

707
01:03:11,540 --> 01:03:15,640
Lay people can give testimony and do before this counts.

708
01:03:16,740 --> 01:03:18,120
You hear it all the time.

709
01:03:18,780 --> 01:03:26,500
But in order to be competent and to be considered by the Council in its decision,

710
01:03:26,900 --> 01:03:31,600
it's legal decision, it has to be based on facts,

711
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:37,560
facts in the knowledge of the persons who are testifying and none of the persons

712
01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:42,880
testifying today identified themselves as land use planners as engineers

713
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:52,120
as attorneys and what you all heard was a lot of argument but not a lot of

714
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:58,360
facts based on their own personal knowledge or expertise. That doesn't mean

715
01:03:58,360 --> 01:04:04,000
you shouldn't listen to it, it just means that you can't use it if it's not substantial

716
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:05,140
competent evidence.

717
01:04:06,100 --> 01:04:16,040
What Mary will give you is the relevant and competent and expert testimony that supports

718
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:18,440
the approval of the development order.

719
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:30,420
And so, we would ask you to approve the development order with the conditions as approved by the PCDB.

720
01:04:31,140 --> 01:04:32,140
Thank you.

721
01:04:44,670 --> 01:04:45,970
Good morning again.

722
01:04:47,810 --> 01:04:54,630
As Nancy said, we think that the planning zoning and design board made the correct decision and that should be affirmed.

723
01:04:54,630 --> 01:05:02,250
I'm going to talk about some of the things they applicant talked about and why we don't think

724
01:05:02,250 --> 01:05:03,110
those are correct.

725
01:05:03,470 --> 01:05:09,030
There's really just two items that they point out that would be relevant to your decision.

726
01:05:09,190 --> 01:05:14,130
A lot of the items are like conflicts and measures are interesting but extraneous items.

727
01:05:14,850 --> 01:05:20,170
So the ones that are the most important are the consistency of the comprehensive plan and

728
01:05:20,170 --> 01:05:21,970
the consistency of the land development code.

729
01:05:21,970 --> 01:05:23,990
So I'm going to touch on them first.

730
01:05:24,490 --> 01:05:25,810
But I will address everything.

731
01:05:26,770 --> 01:05:28,350
So we'll take a little while.

732
01:05:29,810 --> 01:05:33,930
The applicant is referring to the reason

733
01:05:33,930 --> 01:05:37,010
they think that the comprehensive plan is in consistent

734
01:05:37,010 --> 01:05:39,950
is because they say that we've got the new comprehensive plan

735
01:05:39,950 --> 01:05:44,650
from 2021 that labels this area as village neighborhood one,

736
01:05:45,090 --> 01:05:48,290
which has a maximum density for residential

737
01:05:48,290 --> 01:05:56,510
for units in acre, but they really have, like, ignored the fact that we have a DRI that has

738
01:05:56,510 --> 01:06:04,050
rights and has density that was given to them in the Approvals in 1997. So, I'm going to explain

739
01:06:04,050 --> 01:06:11,150
this a little bit. And also in 1997, the project was part of a DRI, which is a development

740
01:06:11,150 --> 01:06:17,430
of regional impact. That is the state review process. So, in addition to the Lee County Review,

741
01:06:17,430 --> 01:06:23,410
There's a state review process that happens at the same time for the whole Brooks, which is about 2,500 acres.

742
01:06:24,050 --> 01:06:28,230
And the state grants them the special rights that Nancy Stroud referred to.

743
01:06:28,370 --> 01:06:33,650
They get a special rights there entitled to uses as long as they build out according to plans.

744
01:06:33,850 --> 01:06:35,410
And I'll explain that a little bit more.

745
01:06:36,230 --> 01:06:46,470
We recognize that in our land development code also, that there's policies in there that say the central tenant of our comprehensive plan in our land development code is to respect the rights of the DRIs.

746
01:06:46,470 --> 01:06:58,130
So, the zoning was approved in 1997. I know there's confusion that this is zoning, hearing, and again, it's not, this is the further development order, but the zoning was approved.

747
01:06:58,770 --> 01:07:06,210
They were allowed certain uses, total number of units. It addressed the height, it addressed the setbacks, it addressed the open space.

748
01:07:06,210 --> 01:07:11,770
and it proved that allowed a low-rise multifamily and commercial in the town center.

749
01:07:13,010 --> 01:07:17,990
So when it's approved with those uses, you cannot take those uses away. Even though the village

750
01:07:17,990 --> 01:07:23,940
incorporated, we inherited it from Lee County. We inherited it. It doesn't go away. It doesn't

751
01:07:25,200 --> 01:07:29,960
convoyed. So it's still in effect, the, the, the,

752
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:59,280
In my opinion, this is consistent. Even if you looked at the new comprehensive plan, let's take a look at that. Even though they've got the density allowed in the DRI, you look at the new comprehensive plan. You say, for units in acre, we're going to look at the Brooks development. The project was approved. It was approved initially for 5,200 units on the 2,500 acres. So it really does meet the new comprehensive plan, because the density is 2 units in acre.

753
01:08:00,460 --> 01:08:06,900
further came back later and reduced the number of units from 5200 to I think 3700 so actually the

754
01:08:06,900 --> 01:08:13,260
books is building out with the density that's less than 2 units in acre. So in overall you don't take

755
01:08:13,260 --> 01:08:19,180
each particular parcel and make every single parcel comply with the conference of plan that's

756
01:08:19,180 --> 01:08:29,940
done on the average of the project. So in our opinion it does comply. Secondly if the if you think

757
01:08:29,940 --> 01:08:35,080
about the property just to the north of this malan villas when we had the zoning for that property.

758
01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:41,760
That was in village neighborhood one, that was a 10 acre site they came in and they wanted to do 40 units.

759
01:08:42,340 --> 01:08:46,700
They were limited to the four units in acre because they didn't have zoning on the property.

760
01:08:47,020 --> 01:08:52,020
They didn't have any allowable, they only had commercial allowable uses, they had to rezone the property to residential.

761
01:08:53,320 --> 01:08:57,280
And they were limited to that units because they had to come in and do the rezoning.

762
01:08:57,280 --> 01:09:02,660
So that's really the distinction, when you come in to do the rezoning, those density supply.

763
01:09:04,700 --> 01:09:11,860
They had a second issue that they claim is that it's inconsistent with the land development code.

764
01:09:12,220 --> 01:09:14,720
And they selected a few items in the code.

765
01:09:14,980 --> 01:09:18,280
Again, the open space they said should be 35%.

766
01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:26,800
And it's not because in the DRI approved open space for each of the individual sections of the books.

767
01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:37,040
And the town center was approved for 10% open space because you had, you met the open space in the whole DRI because you had large conservation areas and other open space.

768
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:50,640
So you can't, you can't go back and take away the rights that were in the DRI for the open space or the height which was 50 feet approved in the DRI for town center.

769
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:57,760
not, you know, in the new conference of plan 35 feet is a height, but you can't take away the 50 feet.

770
01:10:01,030 --> 01:10:08,170
I wanted to talk about a couple things that the speakers brought up.

771
01:10:08,530 --> 01:10:14,910
There was some discussion that the zoning map was not consistent with the conference of plan map,

772
01:10:14,990 --> 01:10:18,690
but the zoning map is consistent. It has to be consistent per state law.

773
01:10:18,690 --> 01:10:24,630
So, I don't really understand what the point of that was, but there is, there is consistency there.

774
01:10:25,010 --> 01:10:33,090
Now, there was a large discussion about pebble point or the martini glass property on the other side of three oaks that's part of the Brooks.

775
01:10:33,250 --> 01:10:37,830
There's a very long discussion about 200 units that were approved there.

776
01:10:38,430 --> 01:10:48,170
And yes, 200 units were approved, not initially, but came in later on because that little piece of, of the Brooks on coconut road

777
01:10:48,170 --> 01:10:53,730
was originally planned to be an interstate interchange, which a lot of people didn't know about.

778
01:10:54,090 --> 01:11:00,930
There was a big long story behind that with the governor of Alaska and state legislation,

779
01:11:01,090 --> 01:11:05,350
and lots of things happened, and then that ended up going away. It did not become the

780
01:11:05,350 --> 01:11:11,590
interchange, so that parcel became available. And they came in and amended that to ask for 200 units

781
01:11:11,590 --> 01:11:17,390
for a couple of points. They did not build all the 200 units. They only built, I think, 90

782
01:11:17,390 --> 01:11:24,190
something. So I know the applicant is saying those units were only limited to that strap

783
01:11:24,190 --> 01:11:30,170
number, but that's not correct. We went back and looked at that in some detail when the original

784
01:11:30,170 --> 01:11:37,210
lawsuit came in. And if you recall, I think the Brooks Council of Presidents or somebody had

785
01:11:37,210 --> 01:11:42,310
attorney at that time Beverly Grady and they brought up that point and Nancy and I went back

786
01:11:42,310 --> 01:11:50,150
into it a lot of research into that. It's the intent was for those units to be for Pable Point.

787
01:11:50,850 --> 01:11:55,730
But they were not all used in Pable Point and the way of the DRI was worded, there was no restriction

788
01:11:55,730 --> 01:12:01,970
that said they could only be used for Pable Point. So they could be used elsewhere and we spent a

789
01:12:01,970 --> 01:12:10,910
time looking at that. So the units are still there. There's 158 units left. They were not assigned

790
01:12:10,910 --> 01:12:19,030
to that property. And then there was also a discussion about the buildout date expired and that's

791
01:12:19,030 --> 01:12:25,710
not correct. The buildout date, I think in the DRI original, if you're looking at the original

792
01:12:25,710 --> 01:12:30,250
DRI development order had a buildout date, which was an old buildout date.

793
01:12:30,630 --> 01:12:39,070
The state has changed the rules and will allow DRIs to get time extensions for natural

794
01:12:39,070 --> 01:12:43,530
disasters like hurricanes, wildfires, all kinds of things.

795
01:12:43,910 --> 01:12:48,330
There's a state law that says you can come in and get an extension to your DRI.

796
01:12:48,570 --> 01:12:51,630
So every time we have a hurricane, everybody gets an extension.

797
01:12:52,450 --> 01:13:03,730
There was wildfires, people got extensions, we spend a lot of time with the DRIs like updating them for their new buildout dates because they are allowed to have extensions.

798
01:13:05,230 --> 01:13:12,210
Luckily, a lot of these people notify us, they send the letter and say, please grant our extension to ex-date.

799
01:13:12,550 --> 01:13:19,310
They don't have to, all they really have to do is notify us that we're here by extended per hurricane, no, Ian.

800
01:13:19,310 --> 01:13:26,250
So, when you go back and look at the buildout date for the Brooks, it is now December, 2028.

801
01:13:27,370 --> 01:13:31,950
So, there is no expiration of the buildout date that's good to 2028.

802
01:13:32,210 --> 01:13:39,390
And if we have any more natural disasters, you know, we may end up having more extensions as well.

803
01:13:39,390 --> 01:14:01,110
And the inconsistencies with the land of El Macode that were brought up, there were a few that were brought up, but I think it was the parking spaces, parking lot elevation, and those were actually, they got small deviations granted through the final plan approval process.

804
01:14:02,250 --> 01:14:11,130
There we had recommended that they add some garages to the property instead of just the surface parking in order to do that they had.

805
01:14:11,170 --> 01:14:14,790
There were a few spaces short, 21st parking spaces short.

806
01:14:15,650 --> 01:14:22,190
And we said we would support a deviation at the final plan approval because we'd rather see the nicer product.

807
01:14:22,770 --> 01:14:29,450
So those were granted by deviation, which complies, which means it's not inconsistent with the land development code.

808
01:14:30,430 --> 01:14:36,590
There was a discussion of the parking, which, you know, they do other than this deviation,

809
01:14:36,950 --> 01:14:38,590
the parking is sufficient.

810
01:14:38,930 --> 01:14:43,410
There are operational issues that came up at planning a zoning board with people wanting

811
01:14:43,410 --> 01:14:45,470
to park and proximity to certain businesses.

812
01:14:46,270 --> 01:14:51,870
And so there is an operational issue that we hope is being addressed by the property owners.

813
01:14:52,490 --> 01:14:58,470
The height again, they said should be 35 feet, but it's approved for 50, no.

814
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:08,800
And then the parking lot, elevation was something that was also requested by deviation just so that they wouldn't

815
01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:12,960
have to build half the parking lot higher than the other half, which didn't make any sense in terms

816
01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:17,340
of water management. So those things were granted by deviation discussed by the cleaning as

817
01:15:17,340 --> 01:15:27,480
only in design board at the time. Let's see. There was a discussion, some general discussion about

818
01:15:27,480 --> 01:15:36,920
in development code sections where you're discouraging development, that was not compatible.

819
01:15:37,660 --> 01:15:43,200
Those specific citations applied to the residential single family district of the zoning.

820
01:15:43,360 --> 01:15:45,280
This is not residential single family.

821
01:15:45,560 --> 01:15:48,120
This whole Brooks is owned as a mixed use plan development.

822
01:15:48,740 --> 01:15:51,140
So those citations were not relevant.

823
01:15:57,750 --> 01:16:04,410
So, and I just know they said there were vested rights, there were no vested rights remaining but that's not correct.

824
01:16:05,950 --> 01:16:11,810
There was a discussion again on Pebble Point, which I want to come back to that, but there's a two story maximum.

825
01:16:12,790 --> 01:16:21,330
Pebble Point when that was approved for that extra units, they did remove the high-rise multifamily out of that section.

826
01:16:21,330 --> 01:16:27,150
But there is nothing put in the rest of the books that said you have a two-story maximum.

827
01:16:27,650 --> 01:16:33,910
So even though most of it has built out as two-story, one-to-story, there's no limit in the DRI.

828
01:16:34,030 --> 01:16:38,210
Town center allows you to go to 50 feet in pebble point.

829
01:16:38,470 --> 01:16:43,230
I don't think they're allowed to go that high, but in town center you are allowed to go to 50 feet.

830
01:16:43,370 --> 01:16:46,870
So if you've got those remaining units, you've got that high as well.

831
01:16:50,900 --> 01:16:59,720
So, now I want to go back and address a few of the other claims that were in my opinion

832
01:16:59,720 --> 01:17:03,160
not really relevant, but I want to touch on those anyway.

833
01:17:04,740 --> 01:17:10,900
So, let me see, the first one I think was contract zoning, and that was there was a statement

834
01:17:10,900 --> 01:17:15,780
made that we were giving away the zoning, there was a contract zoning, which means you promised

835
01:17:15,780 --> 01:17:16,500
somebody zoning.

836
01:17:16,500 --> 01:17:21,460
Again, I think there's a misunderstanding we're not reviewing a zoning case here.

837
01:17:21,680 --> 01:17:24,100
The zoning was given by Lee County in 1997.

838
01:17:25,020 --> 01:17:26,800
So there's no promise of zoning.

839
01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:31,180
There was no council members never voted on zoning.

840
01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:33,920
There was no discussion of approving a zoning.

841
01:17:35,040 --> 01:17:37,840
The settlement agreement was not contract zoning.

842
01:17:38,460 --> 01:17:41,420
There were statements in the settlement agreement that said

843
01:17:41,420 --> 01:17:43,580
Planings only in design board will review.

844
01:17:43,580 --> 01:17:49,700
you will review the case and make their determination in order to be contract zoning it would

845
01:17:49,700 --> 01:17:55,500
have to say, planning a zoning will approve the case. This does not say that, so there is

846
01:17:55,500 --> 01:17:57,100
no contract zoning issue.

847
01:18:01,960 --> 01:18:09,320
There is a discussion that the application was contrary to the intent

848
01:18:09,320 --> 01:18:16,180
of the DRI development order. Again, this is not really a reason that you would overturn the

849
01:18:16,180 --> 01:18:21,840
and designing board decision, but the applicant is saying that Town Center was intended to serve

850
01:18:21,840 --> 01:18:27,840
the commercial and office needs of the community and it was that. There was a statement in

851
01:18:27,840 --> 01:18:34,280
the DRI that says, you know, Town Center is intended to serve those needs. But there was no statement

852
01:18:34,280 --> 01:18:39,680
in there that said Town Center is required to serve those needs and is only allowed to have

853
01:18:39,680 --> 01:18:44,620
commercial uses. So, you know, if it had said that, we would be having a different conversation,

854
01:18:44,620 --> 01:18:48,400
but it didn't say that, it only said in temp.

855
01:18:48,700 --> 01:18:52,120
So sadly, everybody wishes that the shopping center

856
01:18:52,120 --> 01:18:57,190
was more successful and sadly, it hasn't been.

857
01:18:58,500 --> 01:19:01,920
There was a discussion in the applicants,

858
01:19:02,480 --> 01:19:05,780
what they had submitted about fundamental fairness

859
01:19:05,780 --> 01:19:10,780
and saying that we're holding hearings in the off season

860
01:19:10,780 --> 01:19:13,740
or why can't we hold the hearings during season

861
01:19:13,740 --> 01:19:20,680
people are here and I understand because I know there's a lot of seasonal people here, but

862
01:19:20,680 --> 01:19:27,140
again we have constraints from the state, thank you state legislators who say who have put into

863
01:19:27,140 --> 01:19:33,360
the statute that there are specific review times for zoning's development orders building

864
01:19:33,360 --> 01:19:40,660
permits and these are mandated by the state and we don't have the option of scheduling something

865
01:19:40,660 --> 01:19:45,700
only during season, because we don't meet the state requirements in the state requirements,

866
01:19:46,120 --> 01:19:51,020
even for building permits, interestingly, if you don't issue it within 10 days or something,

867
01:19:51,760 --> 01:19:56,560
they got automatically approved. So there are very, very stringent requirements. I understand the

868
01:19:56,560 --> 01:20:02,000
legislature may be revisiting that this year, but we are very constrained. So if we tried to

869
01:20:02,000 --> 01:20:09,440
work this out so we could only do it during a season, we can't make that work. So I understand

870
01:20:09,440 --> 01:20:15,360
people are upset because they can't be here but we we are stuck really with what the state has given us.

871
01:20:17,340 --> 01:20:22,560
I wanted to just touch on another thing the applicant brought up about traffic.

872
01:20:24,240 --> 01:20:29,700
Even though they didn't mention it today it's in their in their application that they were saying

873
01:20:29,700 --> 01:20:34,480
that there was a failure to complete the traffic mitigation options in the DRI.

874
01:20:34,480 --> 01:20:46,940
applicant is misleading the DRI development order and it's very complicated and technical so that's easy to do unless you've been doing this for 40 years like I have

875
01:20:46,940 --> 01:20:56,810
you know it's very complicated. So there is a mitigation in the DRI development order where the applicant had to pay a proportionate share of

876
01:20:56,810 --> 01:21:02,850
of the traffic mitigation cost and that proportion share covered all the number of units

877
01:21:02,850 --> 01:21:07,330
and all the square footage that was outlined in their DRI. They actually,

878
01:21:07,330 --> 01:21:11,910
oh, I did a development agreement with Lee County. I think I was working there at the time.

879
01:21:12,430 --> 01:21:16,430
So the development agreement outlined the very specifics of what all the mitigation was going to be

880
01:21:16,430 --> 01:21:23,030
and that included constructing three oaks partly and constructing coconut road. So that was all

881
01:21:23,030 --> 01:21:32,850
taking care of many years ago, when this development order came in to look at the apartments,

882
01:21:33,690 --> 01:21:40,410
they looked at the traffic impacts, the engineers reviewed that, interestingly apartments

883
01:21:40,410 --> 01:21:45,590
generate a third of the traffic of an equivalent amount of commercial uses.

884
01:21:46,630 --> 01:21:50,670
So even though everybody is saying the traffic is going to be horrible, you know, will the traffic

885
01:21:50,670 --> 01:21:56,970
be more than an empty-win-dixie, yes, but will the traffic will be less than what you would have

886
01:21:56,970 --> 01:22:01,750
if you had the commercial that was there. So I just wanted to clarify that point.

887
01:22:04,370 --> 01:22:10,170
And this is just a bonus, I didn't relate anything that was discussed today, but it's an interesting

888
01:22:10,170 --> 01:22:16,670
point of interest. It was brought up, I think, at a prior meeting, that there was a potential

889
01:22:16,670 --> 01:22:24,270
eagle nest on the property in the conservation area. So, we had our consultant, our biological

890
01:22:24,270 --> 01:22:29,750
consultant went out to look and see if we could find a nest. And she did not find a nest.

891
01:22:31,940 --> 01:22:40,760
We asked her to go out again, knowing that it's nesting season and then the cypress trees sometimes drop their needle so you get a better view.

892
01:22:40,960 --> 01:22:53,960
So we had our consultant go out again. She went on November 29. She did not find a nest. She did see an eagle soring overhead. So I think they like to stop for snacks and fishes and things.

893
01:22:54,880 --> 01:23:01,680
So, the eagle is protected, so just want to let people know that there is no eagle nest,

894
01:23:02,080 --> 01:23:11,420
but we continue to look at that if an eagle nest is constructed, then there's federal and state rules that apply.

895
01:23:11,940 --> 01:23:20,000
And you might remember that because on our property at 41, in corkscrew, when we were going to go build our pedestrian paths,

896
01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:26,160
an eagle built a nest on our property and we had to wait until the nesting season was over to

897
01:23:26,160 --> 01:23:32,360
do construction. So, you know, just to let people know there are safeguards in place, you know,

898
01:23:32,440 --> 01:23:40,860
in case there is an eagle. Oh, let's see if I've got anything else. Jumping around a little bit

899
01:23:40,860 --> 01:23:51,300
because some of the speakers brought up things that my wasn't really knowing they were going to address

900
01:23:52,680 --> 01:23:59,360
And the conflicts have interest, I just wanted to touch on, because even though again, it's not relevant.

901
01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:10,940
The Barry Jones, who was then the planning and zoning and designed board initially worked for Holmont as he left and went to work for a different consulting firm.

902
01:24:11,360 --> 01:24:18,280
So he was not involved in that project. I worked with Charlie Krebs from Holmont as in this project the whole way.

903
01:24:18,280 --> 01:24:24,720
He didn't, so Barry did not have a financial gain, which is what you have to do to fill out the conflict of interest for.

904
01:24:25,360 --> 01:24:35,280
There were two others mentioned, Mike Sheely on an abiotid dental case, where he was presenting, and he did file the conflict of interest for him.

905
01:24:36,160 --> 01:24:43,640
When we went back to look, it was not attached to the minutes, but from now on, we do attach him to the minutes that his form was filed.

906
01:24:43,640 --> 01:24:52,960
And the other one that whose name didn't come up, but with Jim Wallace, did have a conflict of interest declared refusal and he did file a form as well.

907
01:24:53,600 --> 01:25:02,800
So we'll just be sure to attach them to the minutes going forward again, but not relevant to the case at hand today.

908
01:25:02,800 --> 01:25:09,460
So, we do feel that everything was met, everything was

909
01:25:09,460 --> 01:25:11,260
complied with the conference of plan, was

910
01:25:11,260 --> 01:25:15,260
complied with when development code standards were met,

911
01:25:18,480 --> 01:25:21,960
the development order, complied with the code,

912
01:25:22,240 --> 01:25:25,140
complied with the plan, it also complied with the final plan,

913
01:25:25,280 --> 01:25:28,800
approval that was granted prior to that,

914
01:25:29,360 --> 01:25:31,920
and it complies with the zoning and it also complies with the

915
01:25:31,920 --> 01:25:40,060
development order. So we just feel that there's no reason to overturn the decision.

916
01:25:40,280 --> 01:25:46,400
There's really no valid reason. And Nancy, I think, is waiting to jump up and add something.

917
01:25:51,660 --> 01:25:52,000
I'm done.

918
01:25:54,510 --> 01:25:55,810
I'm going to get my nest on the way.

919
01:26:00,970 --> 01:26:03,610
Mary and I quickly look to all of the exhibits

920
01:26:03,610 --> 01:26:10,930
that we put in your package this morning. To see if, in fact, you have a copy of the DRI

921
01:26:10,930 --> 01:26:14,990
and the zoning resolution that applies to this property.

922
01:26:15,310 --> 01:26:19,210
The zoning resolution is in one of your exhibits,

923
01:26:19,670 --> 01:26:21,990
it's with the final plan approval exhibits.

924
01:26:23,630 --> 01:26:28,030
That is where you see, for example, on page nine,

925
01:26:28,810 --> 01:26:35,130
the town center uses, which include mid-rise residential,

926
01:26:35,990 --> 01:26:39,910
and the town page 17 through 18 town center regulations,

927
01:26:39,910 --> 01:26:47,430
which allow the height and have the other provisions that were applied during the development order.

928
01:26:48,550 --> 01:26:54,950
The DRI development order may be in there, but in an excessive caution, I'd like to be sure,

929
01:26:55,170 --> 01:27:06,090
and put it into the record today, and direct your attention to page 7 of that development order,

930
01:27:06,090 --> 01:27:09,770
which says that the uses allowed in Town Center

931
01:27:09,770 --> 01:27:14,450
will be those allowed in the planned development zoning,

932
01:27:14,690 --> 01:27:17,690
which is the zoning I just described to you.

933
01:27:17,990 --> 01:27:21,210
So I'd like to give this to the clerk.

934
01:27:21,910 --> 01:27:24,470
If Council will accept it.

935
01:27:29,280 --> 01:27:33,520
And again, based on the Cabinet's substantial evidence

936
01:27:33,520 --> 01:27:36,060
relevant to the development order,

937
01:27:36,060 --> 01:27:46,700
we would request that the Council approve with conditions that were put on the PZDB approval.

938
01:27:47,260 --> 01:27:48,400
Thank you.

939
01:27:50,700 --> 01:27:55,880
Nancy, does that conclude the staff's presentation? You got 16 minutes left?

940
01:27:58,610 --> 01:28:02,470
Okay, thank you. So now that the village staff have concluded

941
01:28:02,470 --> 01:28:08,770
do the Appellates and affected parties wish to cross examine any of the village staff or witness.

942
01:28:37,730 --> 01:28:39,250
You can start.

943
01:28:39,650 --> 01:28:40,090
You can start the timer.

944
01:28:40,490 --> 01:28:41,950
Let me start now.

945
01:28:42,870 --> 01:28:42,990
Okay.

946
01:28:42,990 --> 01:28:43,970
I love you.

947
01:28:44,310 --> 01:28:46,230
Only if you've been sworn in.

948
01:28:46,710 --> 01:28:49,550
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

949
01:28:49,550 --> 01:28:50,050
No, no, no, no, no.

950
01:28:50,050 --> 01:28:50,070
No, no, no, no.

951
01:28:50,070 --> 01:28:50,110
No, no, no.

952
01:28:50,110 --> 01:28:51,430
No one's providing you testimony.

953
01:28:51,770 --> 01:28:53,610
This is crosses emanations.

954
01:28:53,850 --> 01:28:56,970
So they would ask questions of our staff.

955
01:28:57,030 --> 01:28:57,810
But not testimony.

956
01:28:58,210 --> 01:28:59,330
Okay, thank you.

957
01:28:59,470 --> 01:28:59,850
Okay.

958
01:29:04,320 --> 01:29:06,340
So we see able to ask questions.

959
01:29:08,160 --> 01:29:15,000
The appellant may share how are they wish to 10 minutes to ask Ms. Gibbs questions related to

960
01:29:15,000 --> 01:29:16,220
what she tested right to.

961
01:29:16,500 --> 01:29:19,820
So, if one wants to ask one question and one wants to ask another, that's fine.

962
01:29:19,880 --> 01:29:22,580
They've got 10 minutes now in my meds in 39 seconds.

963
01:29:23,060 --> 01:29:24,260
Thank you.

964
01:29:24,620 --> 01:29:27,380
Well, I would like to just say, thank you for your presentations.

965
01:29:27,580 --> 01:29:30,660
It seems like you were helping to know that there's continued.

966
01:29:32,380 --> 01:29:34,300
Anyway, I'll strike that.

967
01:29:34,300 --> 01:29:43,240
I would like to know why there was a 180 degree turnaround on your arguments.

968
01:29:43,840 --> 01:29:51,040
It was not that long ago that you used the very bay point to versus Bay County case against this development.

969
01:29:51,980 --> 01:29:53,600
What changed your mind?

970
01:29:53,820 --> 01:29:55,140
What changed your mind?

971
01:29:58,660 --> 01:29:59,360
Yes, I'm sorry.

972
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:08,060
I do not recall using the Bay Point case earlier, if you can, if you can, if you have some time or, I will.

973
01:30:08,440 --> 01:30:13,320
I have a document, but I will do that. Okay. So we will have to address that.

974
01:30:16,500 --> 01:30:29,560
In the context of this, for seating and in response to Mr. Brooks' misinterpretation of the case, I stand by my testimony today.

975
01:30:29,560 --> 01:30:30,340
okay.

976
01:30:33,260 --> 01:30:40,720
And neither of you feel that the additional 200 units that were granted were site specific.

977
01:30:43,300 --> 01:30:53,140
Oh, can you hear me? Yes. Okay. They were not site specific, and we looked at it in great detail.

978
01:30:53,200 --> 01:31:00,500
Great detail, because there was that question brought up to us, but the way it was awarded,

979
01:31:00,500 --> 01:31:03,840
and they were intended, but they were not specific.

980
01:31:04,620 --> 01:31:09,080
And they can, the wording was intended.

981
01:31:10,400 --> 01:31:17,720
May I add to that the intent language comes from a hearing transcript before the hearing

982
01:31:17,720 --> 01:31:18,740
examiner.

983
01:31:19,020 --> 01:31:25,320
When it got to the Lee County Commission, which made the actual decision and amended the

984
01:31:25,320 --> 01:31:34,120
development order. Those 200 units were never assigned to a particular parcel. In fact,

985
01:31:34,420 --> 01:31:43,260
when the development order was amended, they added to the total number of units, so it

986
01:31:43,260 --> 01:31:50,500
could be used anywhere in the DRI. There were multiple documents involved in this, and a number

987
01:31:50,500 --> 01:31:58,120
them did specify the site and a number of them did specify the height. So when the ultimate

988
01:31:58,120 --> 01:32:03,460
resolution was done and I will have to review that again myself, the last document seemed

989
01:32:03,460 --> 01:32:10,640
to miss that a little bit, but the intent was clear in alignments. I also have a question

990
01:32:10,640 --> 01:32:19,640
for the town was your insurance company was a claim filed with your insurance company at any

991
01:32:19,640 --> 01:32:22,720
point for this case to cover the legal fees.

992
01:32:23,740 --> 01:32:25,820
You could ask that to the bill of attorney.

993
01:32:26,640 --> 01:32:31,060
Mr. Mayor, if you want me to respond, I'm not a witness in this case.

994
01:32:31,280 --> 01:32:32,300
I'm a bill of attorney.

995
01:32:33,300 --> 01:32:36,980
But there will be no claim filed with insurance,

996
01:32:37,380 --> 01:32:39,040
because there has been no claim.

997
01:32:41,840 --> 01:32:44,880
You didn't file a claim that would cover potentially the legal fees.

998
01:32:46,740 --> 01:32:52,620
Well, this isn't the time for our summary or final comment, so I will stop at that.

999
01:32:52,640 --> 01:32:53,300
Thank you.

1000
01:32:53,340 --> 01:32:54,620
Thank you.

1001
01:32:54,760 --> 01:32:58,700
Does the applicant develop or wish to cross examine our staff?

1002
01:33:03,020 --> 01:33:04,080
Steve Hartzle for the record.

1003
01:33:04,540 --> 01:33:04,560
No.

1004
01:33:04,980 --> 01:33:05,640
We do not.

1005
01:33:06,240 --> 01:33:07,440
Thank you.

1006
01:33:07,740 --> 01:33:14,040
Well, in the interest of comfort, it's 11.03 right now, we've got a pretty good crowd here.

1007
01:33:14,040 --> 01:33:20,840
We're going to take a 10-minute break and we will resume.

1008
01:33:21,400 --> 01:33:29,060
I want to caution council that we not talk with each other during this period of time to

1009
01:33:29,060 --> 01:33:35,300
make sure that we don't discuss this case privately, that we will wait for those comments

1010
01:33:35,740 --> 01:33:38,660
when we obtain a motion.

1011
01:33:38,660 --> 01:33:46,200
I'd also ask the public not to address the council members at this point because we've

1012
01:33:46,200 --> 01:33:51,240
already revealed that we've had no conflicts, so we want to maintain that integrity.

1013
01:33:51,860 --> 01:33:56,580
So it's now 1104, so at 1114 we will adjourn.

1014
01:33:56,580 --> 01:33:58,880
I don't know how to join, but we're similar.

1015
01:44:24,030 --> 01:44:27,910
14. Let's restart this meeting, please.

1016
01:44:35,440 --> 01:44:36,740
May I have your attention, please?

1017
01:44:40,690 --> 01:44:45,230
We're going to resume the meeting at this point. I will now ask the applicant

1018
01:44:45,230 --> 01:44:53,190
developer to present his case. You don't have a total of 45 minutes. The clerk, would you please start the time?

1019
01:44:55,560 --> 01:44:59,820
Good morning, Mr. Mayor and council members. As I mentioned before, my name is Steve Hartsell.

1020
01:45:01,700 --> 01:45:07,240
I'm here on behalf of the owners and developers of the Brooklyn Town Center apartments.

1021
01:45:08,120 --> 01:45:16,240
With me today, our owner and developers representatives, Tom Cavanagh, Susan Watts, and Elias Faisaleras.

1022
01:45:17,940 --> 01:45:27,040
Also with me today is Bill Moore and attorney with more Bowman and Reese, who represented the developer and owners in the litigation, which has been outlined in your staff report.

1023
01:45:27,040 --> 01:45:31,980
and which ultimately led to the settlement agreement which governs this development order.

1024
01:45:32,680 --> 01:45:39,520
Also with our team today as Charlie Krebs, the project engineer with Holmontez who made the presentation to the PZDB.

1025
01:45:40,600 --> 01:45:45,020
I'll start by stating that we support the staff recommendation that this appeal should be denied

1026
01:45:45,020 --> 01:45:50,900
for all of reasons that were specifically outlined in the staff report and in your council's memo.

1027
01:45:51,520 --> 01:45:57,020
Ms. Gibbs has done an excellent job addressing each of the many points and identifying the fact that

1028
01:45:57,020 --> 01:45:59,420
None of them are supported by specific references

1029
01:45:59,420 --> 01:46:02,320
to the land development code that would support

1030
01:46:02,320 --> 01:46:04,660
an objection to the development order.

1031
01:46:05,460 --> 01:46:07,020
My partner, Neil Montgomery, has already

1032
01:46:07,020 --> 01:46:09,820
filed a motion to dismiss, which is part of your materials.

1033
01:46:10,680 --> 01:46:12,380
We continue to stand by all the reasons

1034
01:46:12,380 --> 01:46:14,620
that we're set out in that motion to dismiss.

1035
01:46:15,180 --> 01:46:17,340
We believe that the staff report presented

1036
01:46:17,340 --> 01:46:20,300
by Mary Gibbs has effectively addressed

1037
01:46:20,300 --> 01:46:23,360
each of the many reasons why the appeals should be denied.

1038
01:46:24,040 --> 01:46:26,060
I could walk you through each one of those

1039
01:46:26,060 --> 01:46:32,160
if you have any questions, but instead I'll briefly address those points in my conclusion.

1040
01:46:33,480 --> 01:46:38,820
In brief summary, as you have recognized, the Brooks Town Center Apartments is a multi-family

1041
01:46:38,820 --> 01:46:44,820
complex on 5.3 acres previously occupied by the long vacant wind-dixie building.

1042
01:46:45,380 --> 01:46:49,260
That building will be demolished and replaced by the multi-family.

1043
01:46:49,920 --> 01:46:53,440
Properties is also part of the Brooks Development of Regional Impact.

1044
01:46:53,440 --> 01:46:57,320
You've now got that development order as part of your record.

1045
01:46:58,240 --> 01:47:09,680
Both the MPD zoning in Resolution Z97037 and the Brooks DRI are active and are vested as

1046
01:47:09,680 --> 01:47:12,340
your staff and legal counsel pointed out.

1047
01:47:12,680 --> 01:47:18,820
Particularly and I appreciate Nancy Stroud bringing your attention to that in the DRI

1048
01:47:18,820 --> 01:47:23,840
development order, section, Roman numeral II, E5A,

1049
01:47:24,540 --> 01:47:27,680
it specifically states that the following conditions

1050
01:47:27,680 --> 01:47:30,700
applied to the town center, town center.

1051
01:47:31,660 --> 01:47:34,440
Number two, the uses within the town center

1052
01:47:34,440 --> 01:47:37,720
will be governed by the planned development zoning.

1053
01:47:39,160 --> 01:47:41,340
So those multi-family uses were already

1054
01:47:41,340 --> 01:47:44,600
permissible in the existing zoning, because the property

1055
01:47:44,600 --> 01:47:48,520
is contained in that mixed-use PD previously approved

1056
01:47:48,520 --> 01:47:51,640
in Resolution Z-97-037.

1057
01:47:52,480 --> 01:47:59,740
The number of dwelling units approved in the DO is within the maximum number set by the

1058
01:47:59,740 --> 01:48:00,340
DRI.

1059
01:48:00,660 --> 01:48:03,880
It does not exceed the permissible density.

1060
01:48:04,740 --> 01:48:08,700
Furthermore, the approved development order is also consistent with the settlement agreement.

1061
01:48:08,700 --> 01:48:18,920
you approved as Village Council on June 21, 2023, and has been pointed out what was approved

1062
01:48:18,920 --> 01:48:26,200
in the development order by the PZDB, our fewer units that are approved in the settlement agreement.

1063
01:48:27,280 --> 01:48:33,900
This development order did not change the DRI, which remains vested. The proposed redevelopment

1064
01:48:33,900 --> 01:48:40,380
that property into a multi-family project was designed and complies with all the requirements

1065
01:48:40,380 --> 01:48:45,920
of your land development code and the comprehensive plan. That's what the BZDB found.

1066
01:48:46,720 --> 01:48:52,880
It meets all of the architectural requirements, transportation and parking requirements, storm

1067
01:48:52,880 --> 01:48:59,060
water surface water management requirements, the lighting, landscaping, signage and environmental

1068
01:48:59,060 --> 01:49:06,780
requirements. All of those are thoroughly explained in the staff report for the PZDB for October

1069
01:49:06,780 --> 01:49:14,380
10th, 2023, and that staff report is again part of your materials and part of the record today.

1070
01:49:15,440 --> 01:49:21,920
In final plan approval, which was based upon the application staff report testimony and evidence

1071
01:49:21,920 --> 01:49:32,200
presented at the PD's PZDB is set forth in their resolution 2023-01, which is submitted today

1072
01:49:32,200 --> 01:49:37,360
being challenged by the Appellants. I mention the Charlie Krebs, the project engineer,

1073
01:49:37,520 --> 01:49:43,440
as with me today. For the record we do want to confirm the incorporation by reference of all

1074
01:49:43,440 --> 01:49:50,360
of the application materials and the PZDB record that was presented as your council, I think,

1075
01:49:50,360 --> 01:49:52,500
started the hearing out.

1076
01:49:56,390 --> 01:50:01,590
Given that that record has been made, we don't have a long presentation.

1077
01:50:02,630 --> 01:50:09,690
Instead, what I'm going to do is to briefly cite to the six reasons that the appellants

1078
01:50:09,690 --> 01:50:17,070
identified and which Mary Gibbs also pointed out in her staff report. The six reasons

1079
01:50:17,070 --> 01:50:19,770
started out with one contract zoning.

1080
01:50:20,690 --> 01:50:24,790
They've challenged the development order as being an evidence

1081
01:50:24,790 --> 01:50:26,270
of contract zoning.

1082
01:50:26,910 --> 01:50:29,850
As Mary pointed out, it is not contract zoning.

1083
01:50:30,590 --> 01:50:32,890
The zoning remains as it was approved

1084
01:50:32,890 --> 01:50:39,070
in resolution Z97037 adopted by Lee County in 1997.

1085
01:50:40,350 --> 01:50:43,250
They argue that it's inconsistent with a comprehensive plan.

1086
01:50:43,250 --> 01:50:49,350
The development order, as it's been pointed out by your staff and council, is in fact

1087
01:50:49,350 --> 01:50:56,370
consistent with your comprehensive plan, which recognizes DRI development orders and zoning

1088
01:50:56,370 --> 01:51:02,350
that was approved by Lee County prior to the village incorporation. The appellants ignore

1089
01:51:02,350 --> 01:51:09,310
the vested status of the DRI and the planned development zoning and arbitrarily declare that

1090
01:51:09,310 --> 01:51:15,130
the DO, which was approved by the PZDB, is inconsistent with the plan.

1091
01:51:15,890 --> 01:51:23,450
The appellant seemed to dispute really the 25-year-old DRI and zoning resolution that

1092
01:51:23,450 --> 01:51:25,970
was adopted at the same time in 1997.

1093
01:51:27,750 --> 01:51:33,230
Third, they argued that contract zoning occurred by approval of the settlement agreement.

1094
01:51:34,390 --> 01:51:36,870
Your staff has pointed out why that's not the case.

1095
01:51:36,870 --> 01:51:43,310
We would also point out that the settlement agreement was not required to be approved by the

1096
01:51:43,310 --> 01:51:50,910
PDZB and they did not address, whether the settlement agreement was appropriate or not.

1097
01:51:51,750 --> 01:51:57,130
Fourth, they argued that it was contrary to the intent of the DRI development order.

1098
01:51:57,510 --> 01:52:01,430
Your staff and legal counsel have very effectively addressed that point.

1099
01:52:01,430 --> 01:52:10,870
The PCDB was an authorized to examine the intent of the DRI, nor did they address the intent of the DRI.

1100
01:52:12,010 --> 01:52:22,010
The fifth point that raised was fundamental fairness, and we would like to point out that the participants were all given an opportunity to participate and express their objections.

1101
01:52:22,850 --> 01:52:27,690
They were not denied fundamental fairness by the PCDB.

1102
01:52:28,370 --> 01:52:29,970
And finally, they are...

1103
01:52:30,000 --> 01:52:45,920
Under your conflicts of interest and the lack of a conflict declaration has been pointed out, there was no conflict of interest and planning board addressed that appropriately according to their rules.

1104
01:52:45,920 --> 01:52:51,680
So, for all the reasons set forth in motion to dismiss in the staff report and in your

1105
01:52:51,680 --> 01:52:56,440
illegal counsel's memo and the testimony this morning, we agree with your staff and

1106
01:52:56,440 --> 01:53:02,260
legal counsel that the development order will prove for this project meets all of the necessary

1107
01:53:02,260 --> 01:53:08,020
requirements of your land development code, is consistent with the Estero Comprehensive Plan,

1108
01:53:08,720 --> 01:53:14,020
and the settlement agreement, and that this appeal should be denied and that the development

1109
01:53:14,020 --> 01:53:18,380
that's been approved should be upheld and continue to be approved.

1110
01:53:19,400 --> 01:53:21,860
Thank you for the opportunity to make the presentation.

1111
01:53:22,520 --> 01:53:24,780
I'll be happy to answer any questions you might have.

1112
01:53:25,240 --> 01:53:27,600
We'll get to those in a few minutes there.

1113
01:53:27,900 --> 01:53:28,540
Thank you very much.

1114
01:53:31,640 --> 01:53:33,720
Now, if the applicant develops,

1115
01:53:33,780 --> 01:53:39,740
perhaps include his presentation, does the village staff wish to have any questions or

1116
01:53:39,740 --> 01:53:46,700
but no, and does the appellate affected parties wish to cross-examine the developer?

1117
01:53:55,140 --> 01:54:00,020
David Small, 105055, Magnolia Bend, I have one question.

1118
01:54:00,640 --> 01:54:04,980
And the question is, I heard from Mr. Hartsel that everything is fully compliant,

1119
01:54:05,520 --> 01:54:10,520
and yet I heard from Mary Gibbs that there's a deficiency in terms of parking spots,

1120
01:54:10,520 --> 01:54:16,180
characterized as a few, it's 21, and we hope that it's addressed by the developer.

1121
01:54:17,160 --> 01:54:22,520
So it seems to me that there's obviously a significant issue in terms of existence of

1122
01:54:22,520 --> 01:54:23,260
facts here.

1123
01:54:23,300 --> 01:54:25,020
I guess I wanted to point that out.

1124
01:54:29,350 --> 01:54:30,910
Steve Hartsel again for the record.

1125
01:54:32,110 --> 01:54:38,550
What Mr. Small is referring to is a deviation, a deviation that's been approved, consistent

1126
01:54:38,550 --> 01:54:41,450
with the code is not a deficiency.

1127
01:54:42,410 --> 01:54:45,230
It's been approved consistent with the code requirements.

1128
01:54:45,990 --> 01:54:47,730
So there is not any deficiency.

1129
01:54:48,690 --> 01:54:52,650
And I'll let Mary provide any additional comments

1130
01:54:52,650 --> 01:54:53,950
that she feels are necessary.

1131
01:54:54,430 --> 01:54:54,970
Thank you.

1132
01:54:55,130 --> 01:54:55,930
Thank you.

1133
01:55:08,550 --> 01:55:11,030
Just add, the deviations were approved

1134
01:55:11,030 --> 01:55:14,430
during final planner approval, which occurred in July.

1135
01:55:15,830 --> 01:55:18,290
So any challenge to those deviations,

1136
01:55:18,290 --> 01:55:22,290
It's missed the day, the 30-day time period to appeal those.

1137
01:55:23,130 --> 01:55:25,590
It's not something that the Council should be considering.

1138
01:55:28,780 --> 01:55:33,360
That's not something that the Council should be considering the deviations.

1139
01:55:36,280 --> 01:55:40,020
And does the effect of parties have any other questions?

1140
01:55:41,880 --> 01:55:52,400
At this time, I would like to allow Council to answer any questions that you may have that are developed over all of the

1141
01:55:52,400 --> 01:55:59,580
testimony that we received today, I would ask you to address the developer or the affected

1142
01:55:59,580 --> 01:56:07,360
parties or staff with your questions, do any of council have any questions, a council

1143
01:56:07,360 --> 01:56:07,880
and ward?

1144
01:56:08,140 --> 01:56:13,780
Yeah, I'd just like to start with a question to our council regarding substantial competent

1145
01:56:13,780 --> 01:56:20,980
evidence because obviously you have a conflict in how this has been viewed by the appellate

1146
01:56:20,980 --> 01:56:23,960
versus the staff versus the developer.

1147
01:56:24,780 --> 01:56:26,980
And the real sighting, different requirements,

1148
01:56:27,080 --> 01:56:31,000
as it relates to the LVC and the company has a plan.

1149
01:56:31,960 --> 01:56:34,440
And so I'm just wanting to understand

1150
01:56:34,440 --> 01:56:37,980
what defines substantial competent evidence

1151
01:56:37,980 --> 01:56:40,480
is it something that is being read to us

1152
01:56:40,480 --> 01:56:43,660
by the appellant or is it something that's being read

1153
01:56:43,660 --> 01:56:46,100
to us by staff or the developer?

1154
01:56:46,240 --> 01:56:50,120
How do we define who is correct in understanding

1155
01:56:50,120 --> 01:56:55,440
of whether it meets the LDC or the confidence of plan.

1156
01:56:56,300 --> 01:57:00,720
So, substantive competence evidence is evidence which would tend to convince the decision-maker

1157
01:57:00,720 --> 01:57:02,780
of the position being argued.

1158
01:57:03,300 --> 01:57:11,220
In this particular case, you have parties who disagree on what some of the facts are and disagree

1159
01:57:11,220 --> 01:57:13,920
on how those facts may apply to the code.

1160
01:57:13,920 --> 01:57:19,080
All of all requires, in terms of substantial competent evidence, is that when the court

1161
01:57:19,080 --> 01:57:25,840
reviews it, is there factual evidence in the record that the village can point to support

1162
01:57:25,840 --> 01:57:27,940
the decision made by council?

1163
01:57:29,180 --> 01:57:33,540
There can be conflicting evidence, but there simply needs to be evidence in the record.

1164
01:57:33,660 --> 01:57:39,840
In other words, you can't make a decision, for instance, if your decision is to reverse.

1165
01:57:39,840 --> 01:57:46,700
You can't make a decision to reverse unless there is facts that in the record to support that.

1166
01:57:47,040 --> 01:57:50,120
And it doesn't just have to be what is spoken to you today.

1167
01:57:50,620 --> 01:57:54,940
Many of the parties have referred to the written record, this big thick notebook.

1168
01:57:55,420 --> 01:58:01,640
And that is also part of the evidence, the substantial competence evidence that the Council can rely upon.

1169
01:58:01,760 --> 01:58:02,640
Does that answer your question?

1170
01:58:04,020 --> 01:58:12,980
Yeah, I guess it does, but I'm just wondering how two different parties are looking at the same document and coming to two different conclusions.

1171
01:58:14,720 --> 01:58:21,460
It happens in court all the time when two parties go into front of a judge in a jury and say, I think this, I think that.

1172
01:58:21,760 --> 01:58:26,600
It could be a contract interpretation and interpretation of an ordinance and interpretation of a statute.

1173
01:58:27,940 --> 01:58:37,160
Ultimately, what the law is, you all determine, based upon your comprehensive plan, your

1174
01:58:37,160 --> 01:58:42,660
land development code, and in this case, the development of regional impact, because that

1175
01:58:42,660 --> 01:58:46,060
is part of what the law is that applies to this case.

1176
01:58:46,540 --> 01:58:52,640
The facts that then have to be put onto that law is what's being argued to you today.

1177
01:58:52,640 --> 01:59:03,680
So, in terms of, of there being competent substantial evidence, I think there's competent substantial evidence in the record that can go both ways.

1178
01:59:04,060 --> 01:59:13,080
You all have to decide of the evidence that has been put in by the appellant and the evidence that is put in by the staff and the evidence that is put in by the developer.

1179
01:59:13,900 --> 01:59:19,640
what will weigh more in how I decide the case, because clearly there is

1180
01:59:19,640 --> 01:59:25,780
disputed facts, but the legal standard in a quasi-judicial proceeding is lower

1181
01:59:25,780 --> 01:59:32,220
than it is in court, and so basically, Compton Substantial Evidence is, is there any evidence

1182
01:59:32,220 --> 01:59:38,200
in the record that will go to support the decision made by the governing body?

1183
01:59:40,480 --> 01:59:41,100
Thank you.

1184
01:59:41,100 --> 01:59:42,920
It's going to be a question, please.

1185
01:59:43,960 --> 01:59:50,700
To the appellate, I believe you stated initially that you do not have legal representation

1186
01:59:51,340 --> 01:59:55,180
here, but I believe you do have legal representation, correct?

1187
01:59:59,290 --> 01:59:59,970
I engage.

1188
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:12,000
Realt Brooks for the initial hearing before the planning is on award. When we did not get participation status,

1189
02:00:13,300 --> 02:00:20,380
I then terminated that relationship for a period of time. But when we realized that this, we would have to create an appeal.

1190
02:00:21,020 --> 02:00:23,520
We did re-engage him.

1191
02:00:23,820 --> 02:00:33,400
However, he did receive notice of this meeting when I did and he did provide six additional seven additional dates.

1192
02:00:33,500 --> 02:00:39,380
One of which I think was that one of your meetings in January in order to represent us,

1193
02:00:39,720 --> 02:00:47,140
we were told by the village that none of those dates were good for the village and that we didn't get to participate in that decision.

1194
02:00:47,140 --> 02:00:54,400
So we do have representation, he did prepare the members both for the agreed party status,

1195
02:00:54,540 --> 02:00:59,780
although we didn't have to present that this morning, and he did give us the memorandum

1196
02:00:59,780 --> 02:01:06,840
that Mr. David Small read to all of you supporting our position. He's not here, unfortunately,

1197
02:01:07,800 --> 02:01:12,920
but we do currently have representation. Thank you. Thank you.

1198
02:01:15,060 --> 02:01:15,760
Any other questions?

1199
02:01:15,760 --> 02:01:16,500
go

1200
02:01:20,950 --> 02:01:22,110
ahead and know you go first.

1201
02:01:22,830 --> 02:01:25,650
Council, Council Lady, thank you.

1202
02:01:29,410 --> 02:01:37,850
That's a couple questions here for both of you that may not be relevant to our decision,

1203
02:01:38,350 --> 02:01:42,850
but I feel that that it is to my decision.

1204
02:01:46,120 --> 02:01:48,940
When I've lost my page now, Miss.

1205
02:01:51,130 --> 02:01:52,270
Thank you.

1206
02:01:53,910 --> 02:01:55,230
Thank you, Chair.

1207
02:01:56,270 --> 02:02:14,740
I understand your concerns, I guess what I would question is you have a lot along list of things you don't like about this development project.

1208
02:02:16,460 --> 02:02:22,000
Do you have concessions in mind that you would ask the developer if you had the opportunity?

1209
02:02:22,000 --> 02:02:26,540
Well, the first, of course, would be to be consistent with the comprehensive plan.

1210
02:02:27,200 --> 02:02:32,800
But beyond that, I have heard from, as you can imagine, thousands of residents of the

1211
02:02:32,800 --> 02:02:33,180
books.

1212
02:02:34,960 --> 02:02:40,440
Yes, indeed, I've had a laundry list of not only concessions, but ideas, and we're happy to

1213
02:02:40,440 --> 02:02:42,300
present them and discuss them.

1214
02:02:42,520 --> 02:02:44,780
Most of them do deal with the height of the buildings.

1215
02:02:45,220 --> 02:02:48,600
And I understand why the developer wants the height of the buildings.

1216
02:02:48,600 --> 02:02:56,300
but not only is it inconsistent, not only will it create issues for adjacent neighbors, that is

1217
02:02:56,300 --> 02:03:04,740
one of our big issues, the size of the building on the lot safety. But yes, the answer is yes,

1218
02:03:05,340 --> 02:03:13,100
we would be amenable to certain concessions and meetings. Absolutely. I appreciate that. Thank you.

1219
02:03:14,420 --> 02:03:17,920
I'm always, you know, working at least in my own mind.

1220
02:03:18,860 --> 02:03:21,360
We offered, and we're still open, so yes, thank you.

1221
02:03:21,360 --> 02:03:25,300
You know, to try to bring peace to a situation, yes.

1222
02:03:28,380 --> 02:03:31,420
And to the developers' representative,

1223
02:03:33,860 --> 02:03:40,900
if I could ask you a question or two, now this is

1224
02:03:40,900 --> 02:03:42,260
for stories.

1225
02:03:44,400 --> 02:03:54,380
If it were reduced to three stories, how does that at what loss would that be financially for your

1226
02:03:55,560 --> 02:04:02,780
development? I absolutely have no idea what the answer to that question. Do you have any idea

1227
02:04:02,780 --> 02:04:05,560
what the, how many,

1228
02:04:09,510 --> 02:04:17,450
I'm in, sorry, the feet through me off, do you have how many units are on that fourth floor? I'm sorry.

1229
02:04:18,090 --> 02:04:27,610
I don't know off the top of my head, how many I would probably presume that they're about a quarter of 137 units.

1230
02:04:28,030 --> 02:04:30,370
That would make sense, I guess. Thank you.

1231
02:04:30,370 --> 02:04:38,710
And, on the lighting, my understanding was that it was 20 feet, and the Rutger residents

1232
02:04:38,710 --> 02:04:47,030
would prefer 15 feet for the lighting height, is, has that been discussed?

1233
02:04:47,770 --> 02:04:54,470
I believe that the lighting was discussed as a deviation at the planning board hearing,

1234
02:04:54,470 --> 02:05:01,930
and that that was that there was a deviation that was granted with regard to the lighting.

1235
02:05:02,430 --> 02:05:09,590
I don't know exactly whether changing that to fit to have any extra early crebs would like

1236
02:05:09,590 --> 02:05:10,590
to address that.

1237
02:05:10,650 --> 02:05:11,270
Thank you.

1238
02:05:14,420 --> 02:05:16,160
Charlie Krebs with Homeland Test for the record.

1239
02:05:17,120 --> 02:05:23,280
On the lighting, when we came in to do the residential portion, that lighting on that portion

1240
02:05:23,280 --> 02:05:27,100
of the property of the 5.3 acres, that was reduced down to the 15 feet.

1241
02:05:27,100 --> 02:05:33,000
the commercial lighting was staying as it is because we weren't impacting those

1242
02:05:33,000 --> 02:05:36,500
light poles. So we only looked at modifying the lighting on the residential

1243
02:05:36,500 --> 02:05:40,080
side and that was brought down to the residential requirement while the

1244
02:05:40,080 --> 02:05:44,320
commercial was still at the previous approved 20 feet. So the deviation was so

1245
02:05:44,320 --> 02:05:49,020
that we could have the commercial lighting comply with the code without having to go

1246
02:05:49,020 --> 02:05:52,520
and redo the lighting on the commercial side since we weren't impacting that

1247
02:05:52,520 --> 02:05:58,380
of the property. Okay, I appreciate that, thank you. And I

1248
02:06:01,200 --> 02:06:03,960
have, have you met with the Brooks

1249
02:06:03,960 --> 02:06:09,620
communities or do you plan to do? We have yet another one, I'm sorry.

1250
02:06:13,640 --> 02:06:15,000
We don't plan to at the

1251
02:06:15,000 --> 02:06:22,680
moment. No, we've got the approvals that are necessary. Okay. All right, thank you very much. Thank you.

1252
02:06:25,200 --> 02:06:32,340
There is one other important item to the residents, especially the residents of Shadawood.

1253
02:06:32,740 --> 02:06:39,780
And again, without being able to negotiate anything, there is no security perimeter between

1254
02:06:39,780 --> 02:06:43,760
town center and either the conservation area or our properties.

1255
02:06:44,140 --> 02:06:50,800
Mr. Mayor, that procedurally, if Council is asking questions, this isn't really the

1256
02:06:50,800 --> 02:06:51,440
back and forth.

1257
02:06:52,420 --> 02:06:52,980
To stand up.

1258
02:06:53,000 --> 02:06:55,220
Well, security would be an issue to talk with.

1259
02:06:55,720 --> 02:06:56,380
Thank you.

1260
02:06:56,540 --> 02:06:57,020
I apologize.

1261
02:06:57,540 --> 02:06:59,120
Thank you.

1262
02:06:59,460 --> 02:07:06,780
Well, I've got maybe clarification because we've heard on both sides the 50 foot building

1263
02:07:06,780 --> 02:07:07,580
limit.

1264
02:07:09,260 --> 02:07:17,040
The applicant agreed people are saying that's not allowed what I'm hearing from both the developer

1265
02:07:17,040 --> 02:07:20,200
and from staff that that clearly is allowed.

1266
02:07:20,200 --> 02:07:29,920
And I think for me to make a decision, that's extremely important that we get from evidence and conclude.

1267
02:07:32,180 --> 02:07:43,260
The 50 feet is clearly allowed. It was approved in 1997 by the county. It is not taken away by a new comprehensive plan.

1268
02:07:44,420 --> 02:07:53,460
And let me just add on when Rob was talking about competence of social evidence. Typically, you know, and I know the neighbors have done a great job.

1269
02:07:53,460 --> 02:07:56,140
know, I'm a very passionate, but when you talk about

1270
02:07:56,140 --> 02:07:59,840
competence of Statial Evidence, I've been reviewing DRIs for

1271
02:07:59,840 --> 02:08:03,200
40 years. Regional Planning Council, Lee County,

1272
02:08:03,960 --> 02:08:09,400
Village of Estero, I am really recognized as an expert in that.

1273
02:08:09,860 --> 02:08:12,940
So, you know, you have to put some credence in the staff's

1274
02:08:12,940 --> 02:08:15,760
knowledge of dealing with DRIs and how it's interpreted.

1275
02:08:16,640 --> 02:08:22,060
So, I would say that, you know, the 50 feet is, and I had asked the developer

1276
02:08:22,060 --> 02:08:28,020
early on when we, way back in the beginning, you know, could they reduce the height of the building,

1277
02:08:28,620 --> 02:08:35,000
and they said no. If you do reduce it to three-story, you're not required to have elevators,

1278
02:08:35,100 --> 02:08:41,180
you know, you are required to have elevators. So the quality of the project is a little bit affected,

1279
02:08:41,780 --> 02:08:45,200
but, you know, the 50 feet is correct in my opinion.

1280
02:08:45,200 --> 02:08:55,200
You know, I've been on council here for a few years, and it is a little disturbing to me that

1281
02:08:55,780 --> 02:09:02,800
the affected parties had reached out to the developer to discuss their concerns.

1282
02:09:03,500 --> 02:09:10,380
And in my previous experiences, that is a great way to get acceptance projects.

1283
02:09:10,380 --> 02:09:14,880
And so I am concerned with why the developer

1284
02:09:14,880 --> 02:09:22,280
had chosen not to respond in any format to the affected parties

1285
02:09:22,280 --> 02:09:23,000
in there.

1286
02:09:23,380 --> 02:09:28,260
And so the question is, can you tell me why that was not done?

1287
02:09:30,600 --> 02:09:31,940
Steve Hartzell again for the record.

1288
02:09:32,900 --> 02:09:35,620
Clearly, I'm at a little bit of a disadvantage.

1289
02:09:36,400 --> 02:09:40,160
Since I'm here on behalf of Neil Montgomery, my partner,

1290
02:09:40,160 --> 02:09:49,340
who's been involved this this whole time. With regard to not addressing the concerns that you're

1291
02:09:49,340 --> 02:09:58,060
asking about, I think perhaps the question that to council member Fahey asked me about the height

1292
02:09:58,060 --> 02:10:07,000
of the lives that lights were reduced, the developers have been cognizant of the neighbor's concerns.

1293
02:10:14,090 --> 02:10:27,430
largely, the point has been, don't do four stories. And as Mary gives pointed out, that's simply not an option.

1294
02:10:30,210 --> 02:10:38,350
So in terms of where the objections are coming from, I mean, largely you've heard from all of this testimony,

1295
02:10:38,350 --> 02:10:45,710
that they don't want this project to be here, what they want is one or two story, something

1296
02:10:45,710 --> 02:10:53,410
that's one or two story, and that doesn't work. What they would like is something that isn't

1297
02:10:53,410 --> 02:11:03,650
multifamily, apparently. And again, it's clear we have, I'd like to keep, please. It's clear

1298
02:11:03,650 --> 02:11:11,070
we have a commercial project where that grocery store has been vacant for years. It doesn't work.

1299
02:11:11,850 --> 02:11:18,810
So the developer has proposed something that is consistent with the zoning, the code,

1300
02:11:19,210 --> 02:11:26,770
the comprehensive plan. It's consistent with what they are able to do. It has a significantly reduced

1301
02:11:26,770 --> 02:11:35,010
traffic impact, as Mary Gibbs pointed out, it's 30% of what a thriving shopping center would,

1302
02:11:35,290 --> 02:11:42,870
that's already permitted. Now, granted, it's been vacant for years, so know the impact

1303
02:11:42,870 --> 02:11:49,070
seemed to be lower. As one gentleman testified, he can still hear the garbage trucks and pickups

1304
02:11:49,070 --> 02:11:55,790
and things like that. If this were a thriving shopping center, you would have a lot more noise

1305
02:11:55,790 --> 02:12:00,130
then you're going to have with multi-family there.

1306
02:12:00,770 --> 02:12:02,550
So I've got another question for you.

1307
02:12:03,090 --> 02:12:08,070
I did visit the affected parties on the street.

1308
02:12:09,270 --> 02:12:14,250
And they bring some valid concerns, but I think we've addressed those through the whole area,

1309
02:12:14,990 --> 02:12:18,730
but one area, and I don't know if you probably can't speak for the developer,

1310
02:12:18,890 --> 02:12:25,250
but one that was brought out to me was potentially increased in security concerns

1311
02:12:25,250 --> 02:12:28,990
along with CDD property that Kathy had mentioned,

1312
02:12:29,270 --> 02:12:33,750
no one walks on that, but that butts this property.

1313
02:12:34,810 --> 02:12:37,310
And I'm wondering, asking the question,

1314
02:12:38,430 --> 02:12:40,650
if I know you've got your development order already,

1315
02:12:41,090 --> 02:12:44,350
but because there was no communications back and forth,

1316
02:12:45,450 --> 02:12:50,570
if the developer would consider meeting with the appropriate parties

1317
02:12:50,570 --> 02:12:55,230
that are affected, and address their security

1318
02:12:55,230 --> 02:13:02,310
issues. I'm not sure how to address those appropriately, but I would like to see, I think

1319
02:13:02,310 --> 02:13:06,190
security is important. I think you have addressed a lighting. They brought up the lighting

1320
02:13:06,190 --> 02:13:11,910
issue to me. I'm glad to see that's down. I know you can redirect lights and all that.

1321
02:13:12,010 --> 02:13:17,450
So I think that's been solved. But security, when you put more density of people, can

1322
02:13:17,450 --> 02:13:20,210
be a risk and I'll be more folks around.

1323
02:13:21,030 --> 02:13:23,770
So can you comment on that at all?

1324
02:13:25,210 --> 02:13:30,050
I will defer to Mr. Cavanol to address that.

1325
02:13:30,390 --> 02:13:31,110
Thank you.

1326
02:13:33,090 --> 02:13:34,230
So my name is Tom Cavanol.

1327
02:13:34,870 --> 02:13:37,010
I am the developer, I have been sworn in,

1328
02:13:37,470 --> 02:13:40,210
and I can answer all of your questions.

1329
02:13:42,330 --> 02:13:47,110
First, the general rule is, I wanted to meet.

1330
02:13:47,590 --> 02:13:53,170
We reached out to the presidents, going back three years ago, personally reached out all three of the presidents,

1331
02:13:53,910 --> 02:13:57,250
meet with them, tell them what we were doing, be the good neighbor.

1332
02:13:58,290 --> 02:14:00,870
We had some communication going back and forth with the email.

1333
02:14:01,730 --> 02:14:03,850
And at the time, they didn't want to talk to us.

1334
02:14:04,010 --> 02:14:07,170
They were being advised by an attorney and attorney said, don't meet with them.

1335
02:14:09,010 --> 02:14:13,250
You know, I personally have never been reached out by Kathy, she made a coming.

1336
02:14:13,250 --> 02:14:22,510
Okay, my apologies, I had never received it, but if we want to talk about concessions and

1337
02:14:22,510 --> 02:14:28,110
security, let's have the conversation, because everything that I was asked to do by the

1338
02:14:28,110 --> 02:14:36,990
planning board, we've done so if Kathy wants a fence, Kathy can have a fence, Kathy wants

1339
02:14:36,990 --> 02:14:40,590
additional landscaping, Cathy can have additional landscaping.

1340
02:14:41,290 --> 02:14:44,330
Okay, I'm sorry, the residents, okay.

1341
02:14:45,750 --> 02:14:49,070
And so I think it's probably a good form to ask

1342
02:14:49,070 --> 02:14:52,510
what they want and let's discuss it right now.

1343
02:14:53,250 --> 02:14:55,170
Personally, I don't think there's any difference in

1344
02:14:55,170 --> 02:14:59,970
security between a back of a retail center and a back of a very...

1345
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:10,140
A very luxurious, high-end, you know, community that fulfills the needs of a sterile. May not fill the needs of

1346
02:15:10,140 --> 02:15:14,920
Brooks, but it sure fills the needs of a sterile as a community.

1347
02:15:16,900 --> 02:15:18,720
So I'm more than willing to sit here.

1348
02:15:18,720 --> 02:15:29,640
answer 20. Robert, is it appropriate that we have the affected parties provide some

1349
02:15:29,640 --> 02:15:35,840
of their concerns that may not have been addressed like security? Is that appropriate

1350
02:15:35,840 --> 02:15:37,000
for this?

1351
02:15:41,940 --> 02:15:47,900
So the difficulty that that will come in is that coming out of this

1352
02:15:47,900 --> 02:15:59,000
hearing today, you all need to issue a ruling, and you're either affirming, reversing,

1353
02:15:59,280 --> 02:16:07,200
or affirming with new conditions. If you put new conditions on, those conditions have to be

1354
02:16:07,200 --> 02:16:16,820
of subspecificity that they are enforceable. And so it's a difficult environment in the middle of

1355
02:16:16,820 --> 02:16:23,080
as I'm judicial hearing to start negotiating the specifics of what kind of fence, how high

1356
02:16:23,080 --> 02:16:29,020
is the fence? When will the fence be built? I mean there's a ton of discussions and it's very

1357
02:16:29,020 --> 02:16:36,020
difficult to have them in this setting. So that's the problem that's created. Can it be done? Yes,

1358
02:16:36,040 --> 02:16:46,460
it can be done. You might, and truly I think it also will be the case. Let's assume that you take

1359
02:16:46,460 --> 02:16:52,940
a ten minute break and you say developer meet with the affected parties and see if you

1360
02:16:52,940 --> 02:16:57,780
can come to an agreement. They may come back and say, well, we come to an agreement that

1361
02:16:57,780 --> 02:17:01,920
we would like to have a fence, but does that mean that they're dropping this appeal?

1362
02:17:02,900 --> 02:17:09,640
Doubtful. So, so you still have an appeal that needs to be voted on. Does that answer your question?

1363
02:17:09,640 --> 02:17:17,360
I think so, so I guess I would, I like people to be able to discuss these, and we're

1364
02:17:17,360 --> 02:17:21,540
fortunate we have the developer here, he can make decisions, you got people that are

1365
02:17:21,540 --> 02:17:23,600
able to do it,

1366
02:17:25,750 --> 02:17:31,330
I asked the affected parties, there's five, I guess, would you want

1367
02:17:31,330 --> 02:17:35,730
to take a 10-minute break and see if you can carve out?

1368
02:17:38,190 --> 02:17:38,610
What?

1369
02:17:46,250 --> 02:17:51,510
I feel that we are at a disadvantage, Kathy Weirovsky, a disadvantage without our legal representation

1370
02:17:51,510 --> 02:17:55,170
here to make those determinations in a way that might be appropriate.

1371
02:17:55,950 --> 02:18:02,170
Yes, indeed, I'm not averse to discussing compromises or concessions, and some of them

1372
02:18:02,170 --> 02:18:11,130
you've already touched on that are important to us, there may be others, but to put into position

1373
02:18:11,130 --> 02:18:18,990
with a team of legal advisors and professionals in this area. I'm not quite sure I've considered that.

1374
02:18:18,990 --> 02:18:24,490
I'm sure you have to have the attorneys present. I think the developer and the other effective

1375
02:18:24,490 --> 02:18:38,220
parties could have a well ten-minute meeting you can either do it now at least for the record.

1376
02:18:38,220 --> 02:18:45,100
I'd like to point out, which I think your council was polluting to, we've been through

1377
02:18:45,980 --> 02:18:48,980
all of the hearings that are necessary.

1378
02:18:49,560 --> 02:18:54,180
There have been public information meetings, there have been public hearings going back

1379
02:18:54,180 --> 02:18:59,260
to June when the settlement agreement came through, when the final planner approval came

1380
02:18:59,260 --> 02:19:05,940
through the PZDB in October, again, when we went to the planning and zoning design board.

1381
02:19:05,940 --> 02:19:09,220
We have had these discussions.

1382
02:19:10,380 --> 02:19:17,640
We would urge you today with regard to the present appeal, to deny the appeal, to approve

1383
02:19:17,640 --> 02:19:26,060
the development order, with regard to the questions of security, whether having a fence to

1384
02:19:26,060 --> 02:19:32,720
that, whether adding additional landscaping, as Mr. Cavanagh has said, he is open to having

1385
02:19:32,720 --> 02:19:33,640
those discussions.

1386
02:19:34,640 --> 02:19:38,160
We would still be open to having those discussions.

1387
02:19:39,740 --> 02:19:41,560
After the appeal has been determined,

1388
02:19:42,180 --> 02:19:44,340
but we would urge you to do,

1389
02:19:45,940 --> 02:19:50,000
to make the decision to deny the appeal,

1390
02:19:50,660 --> 02:19:54,040
and not to basically put the developer in the position

1391
02:19:54,040 --> 02:19:58,520
where is being held hostage by the residents

1392
02:19:58,520 --> 02:20:01,380
who up to this point have simply said,

1393
02:20:01,380 --> 02:20:05,180
We don't want you to do that. Go away.

1394
02:20:06,140 --> 02:20:09,000
All right, so I'm going to end.

1395
02:20:09,460 --> 02:20:11,320
We're in the question from council.

1396
02:20:11,320 --> 02:20:11,740
Thank you.

1397
02:20:12,380 --> 02:20:15,300
You know, I think all of our council members here,

1398
02:20:15,960 --> 02:20:17,800
we want to represent our citizens.

1399
02:20:18,080 --> 02:20:20,580
We have to do that in a legal manner.

1400
02:20:21,160 --> 02:20:22,840
I think we've done that today.

1401
02:20:23,060 --> 02:20:24,060
We've heard from all parties.

1402
02:20:24,100 --> 02:20:29,340
I think we've got some clarifications on a significant issue with the 50 feet.

1403
02:20:29,340 --> 02:20:30,660
Obviously there's some other issues.

1404
02:20:30,660 --> 02:20:33,360
the light is them and done,

1405
02:20:35,610 --> 02:20:38,890
you know, as the mayor and as a council member, I was trying to say

1406
02:20:38,890 --> 02:20:47,410
can we get some harmony and understand that if it's not specific and enforceable, it's kind of

1407
02:20:47,410 --> 02:20:54,350
difficult to do that. So we're here, council is here to make a decision on this today. We're going

1408
02:20:54,350 --> 02:21:00,150
to vote on this. I don't know what that's going to look like. And so I was trying to give some

1409
02:21:00,150 --> 02:21:05,770
opportunities for the two parties to maybe come to an agreement that we could enforce.

1410
02:21:06,250 --> 02:21:10,150
I think where we are now is that we have an developer here who said,

1411
02:21:11,790 --> 02:21:15,110
let's get this obviously approved, and they were going to have some discussion.

1412
02:21:15,550 --> 02:21:19,590
There's some good faith that might have to be involved in that, would not be enforceable.

1413
02:21:20,410 --> 02:21:29,010
You have no agreement that can present to council right now that would allow us to take that under consideration.

1414
02:21:29,010 --> 02:21:36,950
So, I think those are my, at least my comments in my thought process that we have.

1415
02:21:37,090 --> 02:21:41,350
I'm trying to make this work, but it doesn't look like we have an easy solution.

1416
02:21:41,490 --> 02:21:48,330
We have a trusting solution and hope that our folks that come into the village of Estero

1417
02:21:48,330 --> 02:21:53,370
will stand behind their word that they will try to work as solution.

1418
02:21:53,370 --> 02:21:58,550
He's not saying a dollar or a amount or the extent of that, but at least I have the conversation

1419
02:21:59,330 --> 02:22:04,830
and trust that you can come up with something that does make sense and establish the real need

1420
02:22:05,470 --> 02:22:06,970
for those concerns.

1421
02:22:07,830 --> 02:22:09,090
So that's all in my comment.

1422
02:22:09,990 --> 02:22:11,370
We'll go back to Council on Award.

1423
02:22:11,950 --> 02:22:14,390
Just a quick comment to the audience.

1424
02:22:14,770 --> 02:22:20,290
Many of you probably know me, my name is Jim Ward, I live in the Bronx, I live in Spring

1425
02:22:20,290 --> 02:22:29,890
I've been active in the community for a number of years having served on the Springland Board for a number of years having served on the Brooks Cummins Club.

1426
02:22:30,000 --> 02:22:38,980
Board for a number of years was involved with the Brooks Council Presidents for years and was also on the CDD for a number of years.

1427
02:22:39,600 --> 02:22:53,580
We had a number of discussions with the Brooks Council of Presidents prior to this being authorized for the village to accept the legal status as we did on June 21, 2023.

1428
02:22:53,580 --> 02:23:15,200
So I want the community to be aware of the fact that we did reach out and did have numerous meetings with Council, with Mary Gibbs, with Nancy Stroud, with the Brooks Council of Presidents, and we kept them abreast as to exactly what was going on over a period of time even up through the recent months during this past summer.

1429
02:23:15,200 --> 02:23:21,140
we kept them advised us to what exactly the process was and where we were at a point in time

1430
02:23:21,140 --> 02:23:26,080
where we wish to settle this dispute that we had with the developer because as many of you know

1431
02:23:26,080 --> 02:23:32,260
we were in court for well over a year with the developer to ensure the community had the right

1432
02:23:32,260 --> 02:23:38,420
to be here today that the community had the right to be before the planning zoning board to express

1433
02:23:38,420 --> 02:23:43,880
their views. The developer at one point in time wanted it be a simple administrative process

1434
02:23:43,880 --> 02:23:54,720
whereby the staff would make the decision and it wouldn't have the community would not have the opportunity to come in or make some changes to the product.

1435
02:23:55,660 --> 02:24:02,860
One of the things I'd like to do if I can is to ask Mary to come up because there were circumstances that were made.

1436
02:24:03,160 --> 02:24:10,900
Even in the last three or four months with the blessing of the Brooks Council of Presidents and with the blessing of the developer.

1437
02:24:10,900 --> 02:24:16,980
So, Mary, are you in a position to go through some of those changes that positively affected

1438
02:24:16,980 --> 02:24:18,540
the outcome of this?

1439
02:24:19,960 --> 02:24:25,160
I think you're talking about some of the things that we work with the developer to get

1440
02:24:25,160 --> 02:24:26,800
into the settlement agreement.

1441
02:24:29,660 --> 02:24:36,880
And the main things were, you know, we did try to get the height lowered, the developer said

1442
02:24:36,880 --> 02:24:41,920
We couldn't, we didn't want to lower the height, but with a four-story building, there would

1443
02:24:41,920 --> 02:24:47,840
be elevators in the building, that they would do the architectural design that fit with

1444
02:24:47,840 --> 02:24:53,020
the sterot, not the kind of stuff they do, or other people do elsewhere that you've seen

1445
02:24:53,020 --> 02:24:53,640
in the county.

1446
02:24:54,080 --> 02:25:05,640
So we have kind of the attractive architectural design, they had concrete block construction

1447
02:25:05,640 --> 02:25:11,700
because we were worried that sometimes people do wood frame and even the wood frame is allowed

1448
02:25:11,700 --> 02:25:19,640
by code. It's not very sustainable and it's not really of the quality that we were hoping for.

1449
02:25:20,140 --> 02:25:28,820
So we've got a CBS concrete block building, elevators, the attractive kind of rendering that you saw,

1450
02:25:29,840 --> 02:25:34,860
and then they have amenities for the residents which we didn't stipulate but they have

1451
02:25:34,860 --> 02:25:40,680
pool cabin as fitness center. I think they haven't had a wine storage room. And some

1452
02:25:40,680 --> 02:25:46,020
of those things, we, you know, we didn't, they have a little dog park. They're going to

1453
02:25:46,020 --> 02:25:53,240
repaint the commercial center because when they build the apartments, the commercial

1454
02:25:53,240 --> 02:25:58,600
centers like a little bit drab-looking. It means a refresh. So they're going to repaint the

1455
02:25:58,600 --> 02:26:04,020
rest of the shopping center to be consistent with the color scheme that planning zoning

1456
02:26:04,020 --> 02:26:12,120
design board had approved, and then I think the lighting fixtures, they were also going

1457
02:26:12,120 --> 02:26:16,580
to replace the fixtures in the remaining parking lots, so they would be consistent, as

1458
02:26:16,580 --> 02:26:24,040
well, do some paper block crosswalks in the parking lot between the residential and the commercial

1459
02:26:24,040 --> 02:26:31,760
areas. And then there were a few more things that I think were stipulated in the planning zoning

1460
02:26:31,760 --> 02:26:39,800
design review board review of the development order. They had some additional parking suggestions

1461
02:26:39,800 --> 02:26:46,520
to try to make it operationally work the flow work a little bit better. So those I think were the

1462
02:26:46,520 --> 02:26:52,340
the main things that I recall at the moment. Mary, I think we also had a reduction in the

1463
02:26:52,340 --> 02:27:00,640
units from 158 to 137 as well. Which the developer offered that 158 or 157 and I think was in the final

1464
02:27:00,640 --> 02:27:02,840
And when they came out of the development order,

1465
02:27:03,020 --> 02:27:04,560
they reduced it to 137.

1466
02:27:10,730 --> 02:27:10,890
Yes.

1467
02:27:11,010 --> 02:27:11,910
Thank you, Madam Good.

1468
02:27:12,810 --> 02:27:13,930
Any other questions on council?

1469
02:27:15,270 --> 02:27:19,130
If none, that all parties have presented,

1470
02:27:19,330 --> 02:27:24,650
the chair will open the meeting here to public comments.

1471
02:27:25,090 --> 02:27:27,810
And Madam Park, do we have anyone to speak?

1472
02:27:28,230 --> 02:27:28,850
Yes, Mayor.

1473
02:27:29,110 --> 02:27:33,050
Are we also sent out a 20 to e-commerce yesterday, too?

1474
02:27:33,250 --> 02:27:34,030
We should talk about that.

1475
02:27:34,230 --> 02:27:34,490
Yes.

1476
02:27:34,490 --> 02:27:41,230
Our first call, I'll call up Tammy Rose from a cut above of a sterile representing the books.

1477
02:27:45,860 --> 02:27:51,660
Sorry for my appearance, but I'm coming from work and I have a haircut at one, so I need to be fast.

1478
02:27:53,040 --> 02:27:56,900
My name is Tammy Rose and I do own a cut above of a sterile.

1479
02:27:57,180 --> 02:27:58,560
I have been there for seven years.

1480
02:27:59,000 --> 02:28:06,320
I have also been in a sterile resident for 20 years and I came to a sterile because it was a nice quiet area.

1481
02:28:07,380 --> 02:28:14,360
I wanted to speak as far as the shop owners, a lot of them wanted to be here.

1482
02:28:14,720 --> 02:28:18,360
However, at 9.30 in the morning, it was hard for them to be here.

1483
02:28:18,560 --> 02:28:23,940
I spoke with the Jim owner, and he is concerned about the parking.

1484
02:28:25,520 --> 02:28:30,820
He consumes most of the parking, but his concern was the construction parking.

1485
02:28:31,580 --> 02:28:36,600
I do know that a majority of my clientele are from the four areas.

1486
02:28:37,280 --> 02:28:38,740
We have to spoken with them.

1487
02:28:39,760 --> 02:28:40,320
It is trust me.

1488
02:28:40,320 --> 02:28:42,800
It is like Groundhog Day in my barbershop.

1489
02:28:42,960 --> 02:28:48,400
Every single day, people come in and that's all they want to talk about is this development.

1490
02:28:49,100 --> 02:28:55,440
I can tell you that a lot of clients wanted to be here today, but could not because they

1491
02:28:55,440 --> 02:28:58,220
are traveling for the holidays and they weren't going to be in town.

1492
02:28:58,840 --> 02:29:04,880
A lot of my other customers said, well, it's pretty much a done deal, so it's just a waste of time.

1493
02:29:05,200 --> 02:29:07,220
I still encourage them to come.

1494
02:29:07,900 --> 02:29:14,960
My deal is the two year visibility and what it's going to do to the businesses in the area.

1495
02:29:15,820 --> 02:29:22,020
I've talked to every business owner and the two things that we have had problems with is we have had one.

1496
02:29:22,020 --> 02:29:26,440
customers coming in going, well, where are you going to go, because they're under the impression

1497
02:29:26,440 --> 02:29:33,140
that they're taking the whole strip mall, and that is not the case. The second part is

1498
02:29:33,140 --> 02:29:39,400
is they're worried about what it's going to do to our visibility and what it's going to do to our

1499
02:29:39,400 --> 02:29:52,000
business. And if it decreases our business, we'll be forced to leave. So then you're going to have

1500
02:29:52,000 --> 02:29:57,320
reason why the Windixie has been vacant for so long is because Cortellus was still getting

1501
02:29:57,320 --> 02:29:59,740
rent money because they are under bankruptcy.

1502
02:30:00,240 --> 02:30:11,260
So they had no, I can't think of the work, but anyway. They talked about, you know, this has been going on for so long.

1503
02:30:11,280 --> 02:30:20,600
They talked about site visibility and everything else. Well, the traffic studies and all of the other studies have been conducted quite a few years back.

1504
02:30:20,700 --> 02:30:25,980
And I think that if it is going to be approved, that those studies should be re-evaluated.

1505
02:30:25,980 --> 02:30:41,760
because I can tell you that I had a customer that came in at 7.30 this morning because I wanted to be at this meeting so he came in early and he was coming from copper leaf and he said that it took him 5 minutes to get out of the development and that was at 7.30 in the morning.

1506
02:30:41,960 --> 02:30:55,860
There has been other developments created since all of this started that have impacted this area and you know talking about the deviations of the 21 spots after the last meeting.

1507
02:30:55,860 --> 02:30:57,780
They did do, sorry.

1508
02:30:58,920 --> 02:30:59,800
I will respect my time.

1509
02:31:00,180 --> 02:31:00,960
Thank you.

1510
02:31:01,160 --> 02:31:04,640
I'm just reminded of the other speakers that we do have three minutes.

1511
02:31:05,440 --> 02:31:06,840
So time your presentation to that.

1512
02:31:07,260 --> 02:31:12,760
And I do appreciate that we don't clap for cheer or boo or whatever.

1513
02:31:13,360 --> 02:31:15,120
I just let the people do their piece.

1514
02:31:15,680 --> 02:31:16,440
So who was next?

1515
02:31:16,460 --> 02:31:20,300
Our next is Mr. William Clark from Shadowwood, representing the Brooks.

1516
02:31:29,960 --> 02:31:31,980
Hi, William Clark and Magnolia Ben.

1517
02:31:32,040 --> 02:31:33,660
One of the questions I had is,

1518
02:31:33,660 --> 02:31:39,020
With the developer, I don't know the details if they, I assume they bought the whole site.

1519
02:31:40,780 --> 02:31:43,760
With the, with the stores in the bank, is that true?

1520
02:31:45,300 --> 02:31:48,280
This is an opportunity for you to, for a minute statements.

1521
02:31:48,440 --> 02:31:52,200
Well, the point is, is that I would like to understand what the long-term plans are.

1522
02:31:52,320 --> 02:31:57,460
They're going to, when they least come around on these businesses, are they just going to develop more of this site?

1523
02:31:57,600 --> 02:32:03,160
Put up another four stories and more units on that site and put more pressure on that site,

1524
02:32:03,160 --> 02:32:09,040
as far as traffic, in parking, and I'd like to know what the intent is long-term that

1525
02:32:09,040 --> 02:32:09,820
they own the whole property.

1526
02:32:09,940 --> 02:32:14,460
I would have, have you, after the meeting is talked to Mary or Nancy, I think they can

1527
02:32:14,460 --> 02:32:18,860
address your request, and that's not going to be a concern for my mind,

1528
02:32:21,640 --> 02:32:23,040
but so thank you.

1529
02:32:24,120 --> 02:32:27,200
Mary, do you want, do you want to address that open links?

1530
02:32:28,280 --> 02:32:36,040
I was just going to say that the developer, I think, is purchasing part half of the five

1531
02:32:36,040 --> 02:32:42,040
acres, so it's half of that shopping center, not the remaining shopping center. And they

1532
02:32:42,040 --> 02:32:47,160
couldn't, if they wanted to come in and take that down and build more units, there's no

1533
02:32:47,160 --> 02:32:54,260
units left in the DRI, they're using up basically, almost all the units except for 20. So they

1534
02:32:54,260 --> 02:33:00,300
have to go back and go through a public hearing, a zoning amendment, and go through that gamut,

1535
02:33:00,360 --> 02:33:05,380
in order to do something like that. So we've asked them before if they were going to redevelop,

1536
02:33:05,560 --> 02:33:11,060
and they said, no, not the whole site. And the risk of another apartment building being four

1537
02:33:11,060 --> 02:33:17,860
stories in there wouldn't be allowed on the DRI because we were close to the maximums that's allowed

1538
02:33:17,860 --> 02:33:24,020
in there. There's the units, there wouldn't be enough units left to do that without coming back

1539
02:33:24,020 --> 02:33:26,140
And I want to make that clearer folks.

1540
02:33:27,160 --> 02:33:31,120
Our next is Sandy Small from Shadowwood, representing the Brooks.

1541
02:33:40,140 --> 02:33:43,780
Sandy Small, 10055, Magnolia Band.

1542
02:33:44,900 --> 02:33:48,200
This has been a very frustrating process in which it appears.

1543
02:33:48,560 --> 02:33:51,900
The needs and desires of existing residents and taxpayers

1544
02:33:51,900 --> 02:33:55,100
are placed last on the priority list.

1545
02:33:55,100 --> 02:34:02,040
Instead, the desire for financial gain by the developer, the financial gain of the owner of the complex,

1546
02:34:02,440 --> 02:34:08,300
and the alleged needs of potential future transient residents, are being prioritized.

1547
02:34:08,780 --> 02:34:15,380
Three Oaks Parkway North of a sterile parkway has been turned into apartment row, and that is not a compliment.

1548
02:34:15,880 --> 02:34:24,380
And to have apartment housing next to multi-million dollar homes in the Brooks, seems very inconsistent from a common sense perspective.

1549
02:34:24,380 --> 02:34:29,140
perspective, let alone a zoning perspective. Part of what Drew was to

1550
02:34:29,140 --> 02:34:32,900
ignore, you've been, was the hope of another grocery store moving

1551
02:34:32,900 --> 02:34:38,020
in to the old wind exit location. Instead, we will be subjected to

1552
02:34:38,020 --> 02:34:42,480
the noise pollution and dust pollution of the demolition of the

1553
02:34:42,480 --> 02:34:47,060
wind exit and be subjected to the noise and dust pollution of a

1554
02:34:47,060 --> 02:34:51,880
lengthy construction process. Then again, transient residents will

1555
02:34:51,880 --> 02:34:56,840
occupy this location, who will possibly lack pride of ownership.

1556
02:34:57,220 --> 02:35:01,580
And what will occur when mortgage rates drop to more affordable levels?

1557
02:35:01,960 --> 02:35:06,060
This will occur prior to this complex being complete.

1558
02:35:06,560 --> 02:35:12,640
More potential apartment dwellers will instead opt to purchase small starter homes and demand

1559
02:35:12,640 --> 02:35:14,200
for apartments will decrease.

1560
02:35:14,760 --> 02:35:18,120
This is the fundamental reality of supply and demand.

1561
02:35:18,120 --> 02:35:21,600
As tenants move out and new ones move in,

1562
02:35:21,940 --> 02:35:25,600
rinse will decrease to maintain 100% occupancy.

1563
02:35:26,080 --> 02:35:28,740
That is how the apartment business model works.

1564
02:35:29,200 --> 02:35:32,060
As a result, a complete new type of resident

1565
02:35:32,060 --> 02:35:33,740
will occupy the complex.

1566
02:35:34,280 --> 02:35:36,600
With loan repayments to be made,

1567
02:35:36,640 --> 02:35:38,840
and I'm assuming some of the funds

1568
02:35:38,840 --> 02:35:40,940
to build this complex will be borrowed,

1569
02:35:41,340 --> 02:35:43,720
and less tenant revenue coming in,

1570
02:35:44,180 --> 02:35:47,040
what discretionary maintenance work will be stopped.

1571
02:35:47,040 --> 02:35:50,020
What will become of this complex then?

1572
02:35:50,620 --> 02:35:55,160
To summarize, I really don't understand why tax paying residents

1573
02:35:55,160 --> 02:35:59,520
of the Brooks are prioritized at the bottom of the list.

1574
02:35:59,980 --> 02:36:02,720
This really doesn't make any sense at all

1575
02:36:02,720 --> 02:36:07,020
and defies a reasonable, even extreme, extreme definition

1576
02:36:07,020 --> 02:36:07,980
of fairness.

1577
02:36:08,720 --> 02:36:09,440
Thank you.

1578
02:36:11,400 --> 02:36:15,840
Our next is David Small, representing the Brooks from Shadowwood.

1579
02:36:21,090 --> 02:36:29,170
David Small, 105055, Magnolia Bend, I think my wife paraphrase that quite well in terms

1580
02:36:29,170 --> 02:36:33,390
of potential long-term impacts of the actual community.

1581
02:36:34,510 --> 02:36:40,650
I want to go back to the Nancy Strout memo in that there's a question along the lines

1582
02:36:40,650 --> 02:36:45,890
of, do any persons in the petition have standing to bring the appeal?

1583
02:36:45,890 --> 02:36:53,450
While that's, I'm sure a very valid legal question from a practical matter, it's interpreted

1584
02:36:53,450 --> 02:37:00,810
this way. Does any person in the community or a taxpayer have an opinion that matters?

1585
02:37:01,510 --> 02:37:09,010
I find that offensive. The second notion is the definition of how people are aggrieved, and

1586
02:37:09,010 --> 02:37:14,610
I do very much appreciate the granting of that. Thank you very much. There's a definition

1587
02:37:14,610 --> 02:37:20,830
of a definite interest exceeding the general interest in community good

1588
02:37:20,830 --> 02:37:23,610
share in common with all citizens.

1589
02:37:24,770 --> 02:37:26,490
We had an objection to that.

1590
02:37:27,190 --> 02:37:29,970
So if you take an extreme example of that, someone...

1591
02:37:30,700 --> 02:37:36,980
Objective to the notion that if someone lives next to a garbage dump, and somebody else lives two miles away,

1592
02:37:37,620 --> 02:37:43,340
that the person doesn't have an exceeding interest if they live next to the garbage dump.

1593
02:37:43,820 --> 02:37:49,480
I find that offensive. That's all I have to say. And very much appreciate the opportunity

1594
02:37:49,480 --> 02:37:52,740
to speak. I appreciate you listening. Thank you.

1595
02:37:54,320 --> 02:37:59,680
Our next is Kathy Varoski from Shatterwood representing the rocks.

1596
02:38:03,250 --> 02:38:03,990
Kathy Varoski.

1597
02:38:06,450 --> 02:38:10,030
I'd like to say if evidence can be interpreted different ways

1598
02:38:10,030 --> 02:38:14,170
that at the end of the day it's your responsibility to protect your citizens.

1599
02:38:15,850 --> 02:38:19,250
I also think that I have in my hands here

1600
02:38:19,250 --> 02:38:23,570
and they're potentially in your packet, but if not public records,

1601
02:38:23,570 --> 02:38:33,130
numerous documents that clearly specify that the additional units were to be used on a specified site.

1602
02:38:34,410 --> 02:38:42,290
We do not believe there are any vested rights left in the original or the amended DRI.

1603
02:38:42,290 --> 02:38:50,410
Pebble Point was built, in addition, DRIs in general are meant to protect developers once

1604
02:38:50,410 --> 02:38:55,850
a permit has been issued and land use or of overalls change, or when there's open land

1605
02:38:55,850 --> 02:39:03,890
to be built, but in this case, we have a town center built under the DRI to the intentions

1606
02:39:03,890 --> 02:39:07,270
of the DRI with the finalized development order.

1607
02:39:07,270 --> 02:39:11,230
We have clear intention of any additional units.

1608
02:39:11,550 --> 02:39:18,890
We have clear intention that the height was to have been limited to two stories.

1609
02:39:19,830 --> 02:39:22,410
As far as I'm concerned, there is no claim of estates,

1610
02:39:23,650 --> 02:39:28,590
and even if there was, you can't automatically just transfer them to a new site

1611
02:39:28,590 --> 02:39:33,530
and a new land use that is incompatible with the comprehensive plan.

1612
02:39:34,750 --> 02:39:35,450
Thank you.

1613
02:39:38,010 --> 02:39:42,910
Our next is Galen Clark from Shadowwood, representing the Brooks.

1614
02:39:47,970 --> 02:39:56,790
I'm Galen Clark at 1090-97, Magnolia Bend, live next door to the Wyrowski's, and I'm one of the affected parties of the five.

1615
02:39:57,870 --> 02:40:05,070
I've set back and listened to all the work hard work that Kathy Wyrowski has done time and others among them.

1616
02:40:05,070 --> 02:40:22,010
But one of my points that I was going to bring up is that I was disillusioned in feeling that my village of the sterile council had not represented at our citizens of Brooks of the Brooks in regard to this project.

1617
02:40:23,390 --> 02:40:30,450
Mayor McLean, Lori Fay, he thank you for the comments and the questions you have given that is brought me back to a little bit of trust there.

1618
02:40:30,450 --> 02:40:32,110
So that's very helpful.

1619
02:40:33,070 --> 02:40:35,450
Actually, and then from a different point of view,

1620
02:40:35,810 --> 02:40:38,470
I would love to invite all of you over to my house for dinner.

1621
02:40:39,530 --> 02:40:40,890
Let's have a party out on the line.

1622
02:40:41,630 --> 02:40:43,650
Let's see how beautiful it is right now.

1623
02:40:43,870 --> 02:40:46,090
Why we bought that house? Why we're living there?

1624
02:40:46,370 --> 02:40:50,010
What it is about the Brooks and the Hall is represented right there.

1625
02:40:51,310 --> 02:40:55,010
That way you can see what we're dealing with right now.

1626
02:40:55,010 --> 02:40:59,570
the beauty, the serenity of the preserve behind us,

1627
02:40:59,790 --> 02:41:00,770
the conservation area.

1628
02:41:01,990 --> 02:41:05,950
Then let's fast forward to two to three years from now

1629
02:41:05,950 --> 02:41:09,210
after this four-story apartment building goes up.

1630
02:41:09,530 --> 02:41:11,650
Then I want you all to come back for dinner again

1631
02:41:11,650 --> 02:41:13,770
and sit on the deck and see the difference.

1632
02:41:14,350 --> 02:41:16,110
Unfortunately, that'll be too late

1633
02:41:16,110 --> 02:41:17,870
to prevent this from happening.

1634
02:41:18,970 --> 02:41:22,710
So I compel you to consider all our concerns

1635
02:41:22,710 --> 02:41:28,790
and make a decision to uphold our appeal and not go forward with this project.

1636
02:41:29,450 --> 02:41:30,150
Thank you.

1637
02:41:32,490 --> 02:41:37,090
Our next is Mr. Rod Raraski of Shadowwood, representing himself,

1638
02:41:46,930 --> 02:41:46,930
next.

1639
02:41:49,450 --> 02:41:55,170
Our next is Betty Joyce Dizel from White House Bay, representing Common Sense.

1640
02:42:02,390 --> 02:42:05,450
Our next is Mary Lou Kennedy from Shadowwood.

1641
02:42:13,200 --> 02:42:16,680
Oh, I'm Mary Lou Kennedy 10104, Magnolia Band.

1642
02:42:16,680 --> 02:42:28,680
We have a serious security issues, a meeting was held between the Shatterwood community association and the Brook CDD in which this was discussed.

1643
02:42:29,200 --> 02:42:41,480
Our last communication from Jim Dunlap, President of our Community Association, tells us that land is clearly owned by the CDD and that Shatterwood can do nothing to secure our border area.

1644
02:42:41,480 --> 02:42:47,320
this CDD needed the ability to work with the developer to solve this problem. In fact the

1645
02:42:47,320 --> 02:42:52,680
developer should be forced to put up a fence between Town Center and the conservation area

1646
02:42:52,680 --> 02:43:02,700
adjacent to Magnolia Ben. No, no, no gody negotiation solution was reached. As this was just

1647
02:43:02,700 --> 02:43:08,520
pushed through. My interests, the interests of my neighbors and all of Shatterwood were never

1648
02:43:08,520 --> 02:43:14,920
considered. We just had to instant last week with non-residents coming on our street, breaking

1649
02:43:14,920 --> 02:43:20,720
into our cars in mailboxes. We suspect they came from the town center area. Adding this number

1650
02:43:20,720 --> 02:43:28,000
of units and residents with such close proximity has substantial impact on us and can certainly

1651
02:43:28,000 --> 02:43:33,500
raise the likelihood for security and safety issues. Further, why no one is allowed to trust

1652
02:43:33,500 --> 02:43:38,720
in the conservation area. How is it that we have vagrants living there? For my

1653
02:43:38,720 --> 02:43:43,860
door, I will now stare at us four-story eye sore. Thank you.

1654
02:43:46,580 --> 02:43:50,180
Our next is Susan Nicoletti from Shadowwood.

1655
02:44:00,050 --> 02:44:00,670
Susan Nicoletti.

1656
02:44:01,230 --> 02:44:06,990
I signed up to make a comment before I heard everything else.

1657
02:44:07,310 --> 02:44:10,690
And I'm very happy what I've heard from the people of Shadowwood.

1658
02:44:10,690 --> 02:44:19,130
we have tried very hard to give you an idea of what this is going to be like for us and I appreciate

1659
02:44:19,130 --> 02:44:22,570
listening and I hope you'll stand by us. Thank you.

1660
02:44:24,920 --> 02:44:26,900
Our next is Gregory Lewis of Shadowwood,

1661
02:44:26,900 --> 02:44:28,080
representing himself.

1662
02:44:32,340 --> 02:44:38,080
Good afternoon. My name is Greg Lewis and I live at 1-0024

1663
02:44:38,080 --> 02:44:45,320
or Ginger Point Court in Shadowwood at the Brooks have been an honor of our residents

1664
02:44:45,320 --> 02:44:48,140
for approximately 23 years.

1665
02:44:49,120 --> 02:44:57,860
I have also been a real estate agent selling literally hundreds of homes in the Brooks

1666
02:44:57,860 --> 02:44:59,960
during my root of real estate prep.

1667
02:45:00,000 --> 02:45:08,940
Practice over the last 18 years. When I meet with perspective, buyers, they often ask, what in the world is the Commons Club?

1668
02:45:10,120 --> 02:45:27,840
I go back to the year 2,003, when the Benito Bay Group came to three or four residents and said, would you mind being part of an advisory council, so that you can tell us what you really think the Commons Club should be over time.

1669
02:45:28,680 --> 02:45:35,900
It became the consensus and confirmed that it really should be a gathering place, a gathering

1670
02:45:35,900 --> 02:45:42,280
place for the people who live in the four communities which comprise the Brooks White House

1671
02:45:42,280 --> 02:45:45,020
Bay Spring Run, Copper Leaf, and Shadowwood.

1672
02:45:45,960 --> 02:45:54,160
A gathering place which would in your solely for the Brooks to gather a place for socialization

1673
02:45:54,160 --> 02:46:02,240
and a commitment, which would be consistent for all of the Brooks owners in perpetuity.

1674
02:46:03,580 --> 02:46:05,200
Well, that seems to be in jeopardy.

1675
02:46:06,880 --> 02:46:12,500
It's not really a real estate puffry or boasting or nightle promise,

1676
02:46:13,400 --> 02:46:17,140
because the Commons Club was founded on written documents.

1677
02:46:19,760 --> 02:46:24,260
And I think that those promises really need to be upheld.

1678
02:46:25,780 --> 02:46:33,660
In terms of the agreed parties, I don't think it's just those people who live within 500 feet of the proposed project,

1679
02:46:34,720 --> 02:46:42,620
but really all of the thousands of people who own property in the Brooks are being disadvantaged.

1680
02:46:43,800 --> 02:46:53,160
In addition, Tammy Rhodes, who spoke earlier, represented the small business owners who are going to be a disadvantaged.

1681
02:46:54,360 --> 02:47:00,520
When you think about the development of the United States, it's the small business owner who has been the backbone

1682
02:47:00,520 --> 02:47:06,220
of the development of this country from an economic sense, and they're going to be disadvantaged.

1683
02:47:06,220 --> 02:47:12,260
this advantage from the standpoint of the project taking two years to develop the lack of

1684
02:47:12,260 --> 02:47:24,200
visibility, the parking issues, security issues, etc. So I appeal to the Council to not support

1685
02:47:24,200 --> 02:47:31,180
the development of this project, and I thank you very much for the opportunity to appear before you.

1686
02:47:34,190 --> 02:47:40,950
Next is Mr. Bob Dollwick from Spring Run representing the appeal.

1687
02:47:43,910 --> 02:47:49,550
Thank you Bob Dollwick, 9331 Spring Run Boulevard in Spring Run.

1688
02:47:50,830 --> 02:47:55,830
I won't use all my three minutes, but I would like to ask the question, and I know it won't be answered now,

1689
02:47:56,310 --> 02:48:02,750
but as far as the DRI is concerned, I heard the term or the number of 2500 acres,

1690
02:48:02,750 --> 02:48:07,570
Does that include the unbuildable portion of the 2,500 acres?

1691
02:48:07,890 --> 02:48:10,810
There's a lot of wetlands there and stuff that just wouldn't be buildable.

1692
02:48:11,030 --> 02:48:13,730
I don't know how that's evaluated.

1693
02:48:15,750 --> 02:48:16,270
Second,

1694
02:48:18,710 --> 02:48:21,490
there was a deviation of 21 parking spots.

1695
02:48:21,970 --> 02:48:26,130
And I know from experience this spring run that parking is an issue,

1696
02:48:26,190 --> 02:48:28,670
because we just went through a big remodeling thing,

1697
02:48:29,070 --> 02:48:32,550
and there was quite a bit of discussion about how many parking spots were required,

1698
02:48:32,550 --> 02:48:34,710
even though no more people, we're going to be in spring

1699
02:48:34,710 --> 02:48:36,770
around the 846 stores.

1700
02:48:38,630 --> 02:48:42,670
Thirdly, I would like to know if precedent comes into play

1701
02:48:42,670 --> 02:48:44,650
in any way, in form of the law.

1702
02:48:44,690 --> 02:48:48,150
I know in labor law, if you've been doing something for 25 years

1703
02:48:48,150 --> 02:48:50,070
and someone grieves against some Jew,

1704
02:48:50,330 --> 02:48:52,410
and you say that's the way we've always done it,

1705
02:48:52,590 --> 02:48:54,550
that's probably a pretty good chance you're not going to win

1706
02:48:54,550 --> 02:48:57,010
your grievance, because that's the way it's been done.

1707
02:48:57,830 --> 02:49:00,950
And spring run, and well, all of the Brooks,

1708
02:49:00,950 --> 02:49:06,850
We've been around for excess of 25 years, and the precedent has always been no more than

1709
02:49:06,850 --> 02:49:07,870
a two-story building.

1710
02:49:08,590 --> 02:49:13,490
So now we're going to go to a four-story building, question, not an answer.

1711
02:49:14,170 --> 02:49:15,110
Thank you for your time.

1712
02:49:15,150 --> 02:49:20,330
Thank you for consideration, and we appreciate the pressure that goes on you for your job

1713
02:49:20,330 --> 02:49:20,770
as well.

1714
02:49:21,030 --> 02:49:21,670
Thank you.

1715
02:49:23,750 --> 02:49:26,810
Our next is Mary Ann Blakely from Shadowwood.

1716
02:49:36,480 --> 02:49:37,080
Hello again.

1717
02:49:37,080 --> 02:49:41,280
I'm Mary Ann Blakely, 1-0039, Magnolia Band.

1718
02:49:43,830 --> 02:49:47,510
I bought my home two years ago, almost two years ago,

1719
02:49:48,610 --> 02:49:50,410
and I bought it kind of at the height.

1720
02:49:50,710 --> 02:49:54,390
So we're talking about close to three million dollars.

1721
02:49:55,870 --> 02:49:59,970
And now I'm looking at what's going to be going on behind me.

1722
02:50:00,810 --> 02:50:06,970
The reason I moved out of Phillips Creek was because I did build a home

1723
02:50:06,970 --> 02:50:16,010
that behind me was someone else and it was not serene. It didn't give me the serenity that I needed

1724
02:50:16,970 --> 02:50:24,870
that now I'm 70 years old. Behind me right now is the most beautiful wildlife preserve.

1725
02:50:26,350 --> 02:50:31,830
And I'm at a different point in Magnolia than the Warrar skis in the Clarks.

1726
02:50:31,830 --> 02:50:41,850
But I do have the island behind me, and there are several, several, eagles behind there.

1727
02:50:42,270 --> 02:50:46,450
There's woodstorks, there's all these beautiful, beautiful birds.

1728
02:50:47,750 --> 02:50:54,510
With this construction and the demolition and the dynamite, what's going to happen here?

1729
02:50:55,850 --> 02:51:00,230
And the security, also, we did have that instance just about a week ago.

1730
02:51:00,230 --> 02:51:03,330
when we know where they came from.

1731
02:51:04,070 --> 02:51:10,890
So I'm just praying that this will not happen to us.

1732
02:51:11,710 --> 02:51:14,230
You are the ones that represent us,

1733
02:51:14,230 --> 02:51:16,830
and we have put our faith in you.

1734
02:51:17,150 --> 02:51:22,130
And we pray that at least something better can be done here.

1735
02:51:22,450 --> 02:51:26,090
Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. Thank you.

1736
02:51:27,370 --> 02:51:32,310
Our next is Mr. Glenn Horvich, representing Shadowwood.

1737
02:51:32,750 --> 02:51:35,230
I'm sorry. Community Shadowwood, representing himself.

1738
02:51:36,550 --> 02:51:39,050
Glenn Horvich, 1-0-312.

1739
02:51:40,050 --> 02:51:45,430
Yes, it's K-O-R-F-H-A-G-E.

1740
02:51:45,450 --> 02:51:49,630
I live at 103-12, Autumn Breeze Drive, apartment 102,

1741
02:51:50,710 --> 02:51:52,930
in the O-Kamic neighborhood of Shadowwood.

1742
02:51:52,930 --> 02:51:59,670
And I, my thoughts and comments are really cumulative and what's already been expressed.

1743
02:52:00,830 --> 02:52:05,170
I compliment our neighbors and the magnolia band for doing an excellent job.

1744
02:52:05,570 --> 02:52:06,350
Thank you.

1745
02:52:08,490 --> 02:52:12,290
Our next is Mr. Ron Bischko, representing White House Bay.

1746
02:52:17,500 --> 02:52:20,320
Thank you for the opportunity to speak today.

1747
02:52:21,280 --> 02:52:23,280
I want to just focus on one word.

1748
02:52:23,400 --> 02:52:28,980
Could you give your name and add the name as Ron, the last is Ms. Go?

1749
02:52:28,980 --> 02:52:29,860
Yeah.

1750
02:52:30,000 --> 02:52:32,820
And I live in Lighthouse Bay in the Bronx.

1751
02:52:36,640 --> 02:52:46,340
Okay, I want to focus on one word. Comparability. Comparability. Comparability. Comparability.

1752
02:52:49,000 --> 02:52:57,260
putting up a flow story building right smack dab in the middle of the

1753
02:52:57,260 --> 02:53:00,800
blocks is that compatible.

1754
02:53:03,160 --> 02:53:09,740
And when you go to vote I let you think of that word and

1755
02:53:10,060 --> 02:53:15,640
what we're doing to the Brooks town center. Thank you very much that's all.

1756
02:53:17,170 --> 02:53:20,590
Our next is Max Robinson from Shadowwood.

1757
02:53:31,360 --> 02:53:31,460
Morning.

1758
02:53:32,320 --> 02:53:33,160
I'm Max Robinson.

1759
02:53:33,560 --> 02:53:36,080
I'd have at 1-0-0-4-8.

1760
02:53:36,360 --> 02:53:38,600
Ginger Point Court in Shadowwood.

1761
02:53:39,280 --> 02:53:43,160
And I'm not within 500 feet of the project,

1762
02:53:43,680 --> 02:53:47,060
but I can assure you that I feel aggrieved.

1763
02:53:49,980 --> 02:53:53,220
The apartment proposal is totally out of character

1764
02:53:53,220 --> 02:53:54,660
for the neighborhood.

1765
02:53:54,660 --> 02:54:04,360
Brookstown Center is for the Brook's homeowners and they have spent together millions of dollars

1766
02:54:04,360 --> 02:54:14,080
to develop and maintain the area, including the beautiful landscaping on coconut road and three oaks.

1767
02:54:15,540 --> 02:54:23,300
Brooks Town Center was intended to serve the residents and to reduce traffic on U.S. 41

1768
02:54:23,300 --> 02:54:31,480
and other thoroughfares by providing services, close by, and not to become an opportunity

1769
02:54:32,440 --> 02:54:40,000
opportunistic development, which you serve as the investments of Brooks Homeowners in

1770
02:54:40,000 --> 02:54:44,740
purchase on our peaceful community, and will increase traffic

1771
02:54:44,740 --> 02:54:47,760
contrary to the original intent.

1772
02:54:49,060 --> 02:54:52,080
The apartments would be an unfair conversion

1773
02:54:52,680 --> 02:54:56,880
of the service intent of the Brooks County Center,

1774
02:54:58,080 --> 02:55:01,380
taking away resources for Brooks home owners,

1775
02:55:02,420 --> 02:55:06,000
exploiting their investment, imposing congestion,

1776
02:55:06,000 --> 02:55:10,420
and comparing the peacefulness and security of the Brooks.

1777
02:55:11,980 --> 02:55:14,340
Town Center was not intended for apartments.

1778
02:55:15,120 --> 02:55:20,120
It was intended for businesses serving Brooks residences.

1779
02:55:21,680 --> 02:55:24,680
Indeed, the same is Brooks Town Center.

1780
02:55:25,420 --> 02:55:26,940
Thank you for the opportunity.

1781
02:55:29,320 --> 02:55:31,900
Our next is Mr. Andy Kern from Shadowwood.

1782
02:55:39,760 --> 02:55:43,460
Our next is Charlie Kennedy from Shadowwood, representing Shadowwood.

1783
02:55:45,240 --> 02:55:50,520
Our next Susan Snow from Shadowwood,

1784
02:55:53,790 --> 02:55:58,810
and our last is Mr. Clark McKenzie from Highlands, representing himself.

1785
02:56:05,510 --> 02:56:19,370
Clark McKenzie and I live at to a 6, 7, 9, 9, 9, 7 and I was very disappointed with you guys putting some 54 buildings close to where I live.

1786
02:56:19,370 --> 02:56:30,370
And I'm really sorry about that for you, but Mr. Scott, your governor, who you voted for,

1787
02:56:31,430 --> 02:56:39,450
got it that development thing. So I think it's very important to remember who you're voting

1788
02:56:39,450 --> 02:56:46,490
for, because it's all about money. And my house is not $3 million, but I still don't want

1789
02:56:46,490 --> 02:56:54,570
by a 40 foot building so you know think about who you're voting for you know Mr. Scott's guy

1790
02:56:54,570 --> 02:57:02,130
that got into that provision. Alright thanks. Thank you. Mayor let us complete public comment.

1791
02:57:02,570 --> 02:57:08,270
Okay I will now close the public comment this portion of our meeting and now that the public

1792
02:57:08,270 --> 02:57:15,950
comment section is closed the chair will permit applicants affected parties the opportunity for a brief

1793
02:57:15,950 --> 02:57:18,950
Rebuttal statement, not to exceed three minutes.

1794
02:57:21,500 --> 02:57:22,760
Do you have any further comments?

1795
02:57:27,360 --> 02:57:29,160
Please, please, please, I can't.

1796
02:57:29,160 --> 02:57:31,760
I can't be white rough ski of a battle period.

1797
02:57:32,340 --> 02:57:36,500
I just rebut, again, the idea that they remain vested rights,

1798
02:57:36,780 --> 02:57:40,820
that the building in the vested rights could be above two stories,

1799
02:57:43,520 --> 02:57:48,420
that we can deviate from the comp plan based on current cases

1800
02:57:48,940 --> 02:57:54,320
And that this will create an inconsistency that will be very difficult to fight in the future.

1801
02:57:55,640 --> 02:58:05,360
And that we really feel our openness, I know you said there were meetings, but we didn't hear of the meeting,

1802
02:58:06,040 --> 02:58:11,520
until we received the notice that said basically this was a done deal, but you can come comment.

1803
02:58:11,720 --> 02:58:13,840
I mean that was the process we received.

1804
02:58:15,380 --> 02:58:24,120
And having this building is clearly not in the intention of the original DRI, and we are interested

1805
02:58:24,120 --> 02:58:30,980
not being met, and I live here because of the privacy and serenity of my lot.

1806
02:58:31,740 --> 02:58:34,640
That's it, and it will be forever changed.

1807
02:58:35,260 --> 02:58:35,960
Thank you.

1808
02:58:38,750 --> 02:58:45,070
Now that all parties and presentations and public comments are conclude, I will accept a motion

1809
02:58:45,070 --> 02:58:50,850
to either affirm the decision of the planning zoning board, reverse the decision of the

1810
02:58:51,690 --> 02:58:59,490
PZDB, or affirm with modifications to the planning zoning.

1811
02:59:02,410 --> 02:59:04,150
So I am ready

1812
02:59:06,360 --> 02:59:07,880
to take a motion for anyone.

1813
02:59:08,720 --> 02:59:15,200
It's a very own, like a motion based upon the evidence and the testimony that presented

1814
02:59:15,200 --> 02:59:18,220
to us today during the arguments for the parties.

1815
02:59:19,100 --> 02:59:22,820
I move the firm of the decision of the planning zoning and dying board to issue the development

1816
02:59:22,820 --> 02:59:23,280
order.

1817
02:59:23,800 --> 02:59:29,440
In this case, including the conditions that have been set forth to the area, do I have a

1818
02:59:29,440 --> 02:59:30,040
second?

1819
02:59:30,700 --> 02:59:31,260
Second.

1820
02:59:31,980 --> 02:59:32,400
Second.

1821
02:59:34,100 --> 02:59:36,320
Councilman Lopez.

1822
02:59:38,320 --> 02:59:40,420
Any discussion amongst the council?

1823
02:59:40,800 --> 02:59:40,940
Yes.

1824
02:59:41,260 --> 02:59:41,900
Councilman Ward.

1825
02:59:42,960 --> 02:59:45,040
You know, as I noted a few minutes ago,

1826
02:59:45,040 --> 02:59:48,840
I am a resident of the Brooks. I am a resident of spring run.

1827
02:59:49,840 --> 02:59:55,440
I can thoroughly understand the passion that you have brought today, and you concerns,

1828
02:59:56,200 --> 02:59:59,300
because I understand what the individual intent.

1829
03:00:00,000 --> 03:00:12,180
Of the Brooks Town Center was. I really do feel that it's not compatible with what was an

1830
03:00:12,180 --> 03:00:19,920
originally intended. I can remember back in 2003 when I first came here 2005, few years later

1831
03:00:19,920 --> 03:00:28,760
week Bay was built. I remember the community being reached out to support Sweet Bay because we

1832
03:00:28,760 --> 03:00:35,240
recognize if we didn't support Sweet Bay that it wouldn't be there. Subsequently, Sweet Bay

1833
03:00:35,240 --> 03:00:40,940
went away. When Dixie came in, we again went out to the residents and said, please support

1834
03:00:40,940 --> 03:00:48,060
Windixie. Apparently neither one of them was financially stable, could not exist. So the developer

1835
03:00:48,060 --> 03:00:55,360
had to reach out and do something different. The developer did reach out to other avenues

1836
03:00:55,360 --> 03:01:01,600
to which they could use the property. I know even at this village the village manager reached

1837
03:01:01,600 --> 03:01:07,180
out to other entities to see if we could do something different than the apartments.

1838
03:01:09,870 --> 03:01:10,250
At this

1839
03:01:10,250 --> 03:01:16,030
point in time this council has to make a decision that is based on what we talked about as the

1840
03:01:16,030 --> 03:01:23,430
confident authority or competent, what's the word I'm thinking of for you?

1841
03:01:23,670 --> 03:01:24,430
It's not an answer to the answer.

1842
03:01:25,930 --> 03:01:38,110
And unfortunately, I don't really see any reason to deny what the planning is only Board did.

1843
03:01:38,310 --> 03:01:41,810
I believe that they are a competent authority.

1844
03:01:42,670 --> 03:01:44,370
They serve this Board very well.

1845
03:01:44,370 --> 03:01:54,390
They serve this community very well over the years, so unfortunately I really do have to support the planning

1846
03:01:54,390 --> 03:01:56,770
is owning board and deny the appeal

1847
03:01:59,620 --> 03:02:01,160
council comments.

1848
03:02:03,820 --> 03:02:07,360
Just one comment I have, I'm not sure all the vote will go.

1849
03:02:07,560 --> 03:02:14,380
We obviously need four to support the planning is owning board, but based on what we've heard today,

1850
03:02:14,380 --> 03:02:21,060
I would encourage the affected parties to work with the developer.

1851
03:02:21,320 --> 03:02:27,020
It sounds like he's willing to consider your concerns specifically around security.

1852
03:02:27,660 --> 03:02:32,640
So no matter how we vote today, that's an option that you should,

1853
03:02:32,920 --> 03:02:36,600
I would encourage you to do if it's appropriate.

1854
03:02:37,460 --> 03:02:38,100
So,

1855
03:02:40,600 --> 03:02:44,680
no further comments from Council, Council person to A.

1856
03:02:47,620 --> 03:02:50,340
The majority of our, I'm sorry.

1857
03:02:50,800 --> 03:02:54,840
The majority of our board are local residents here.

1858
03:02:55,180 --> 03:03:02,020
I've lived here for 20 years and I miss the Cal Pastors, like the rest of you.

1859
03:03:03,800 --> 03:03:16,680
But it's very difficult for council to try to tell a developer that they can't build something on the property that they purchased.

1860
03:03:17,600 --> 03:03:21,680
You know, according to the regulations that are provided.

1861
03:03:21,680 --> 03:03:27,760
It would be the same if you were told you couldn't build a house on the property you had.

1862
03:03:28,260 --> 03:03:34,440
All we can do is tell you what the policies are and how you need to conform to that.

1863
03:03:37,280 --> 03:03:38,760
So, that's all I have.

1864
03:03:38,900 --> 03:03:39,420
Thank you.

1865
03:03:39,460 --> 03:03:41,020
Thank you all for speaking out.

1866
03:03:41,160 --> 03:03:42,440
This is a tough decision.

1867
03:03:44,160 --> 03:03:44,900
Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

1868
03:03:45,500 --> 03:03:45,660
Mr. Mayor.

1869
03:03:46,100 --> 03:03:46,120
Yes.

1870
03:03:46,500 --> 03:03:46,880
Thank you.

1871
03:03:47,020 --> 03:03:49,560
I'd just like to make a quick couple of comments.

1872
03:03:49,560 --> 03:04:04,260
Kathy, I thank you and everybody from the Bronx for being here today is very apparent your passion on this particular issue and I understand your frustration and I can see it and thank you for a very compelling presentation today.

1873
03:04:05,080 --> 03:04:11,800
I will speak on behalf of myself. I did weigh the evidence and all of the testimony provided today and in our packet.

1874
03:04:11,800 --> 03:04:17,080
And for me, it comes down to a simple legal test, right?

1875
03:04:17,720 --> 03:04:22,900
I need to follow what is legally applicable in the law.

1876
03:04:23,920 --> 03:04:29,060
And so when I take a look at the DRI and the vested rights of the developer,

1877
03:04:29,060 --> 03:04:39,640
The comprehensive plan, the PZDB board, and their approval of those items, staffs, recommendation,

1878
03:04:40,580 --> 03:04:47,600
Nancy Stroud, our land use attorneys, recommendation, and then our village attorneys recommendation.

1879
03:04:48,640 --> 03:04:53,620
I want you to know as a village counsel person, I'm compelled to follow the legal findings.

1880
03:04:53,620 --> 03:05:05,680
So although your arguments were compelling, I'm letting you know the reason that I'm going to be voting to support the motion is because of the legalities.

1881
03:05:07,320 --> 03:05:08,820
But thank you very much.

1882
03:05:20,900 --> 03:05:22,140
Thank you.

1883
03:05:22,140 --> 03:05:25,780
of fines that could be brought against the village,

1884
03:05:26,460 --> 03:05:28,300
lawsuits that are brought against the village,

1885
03:05:28,920 --> 03:05:31,380
we have to protect everyone in the village.

1886
03:05:32,460 --> 03:05:34,400
And that is why I seconded emotion,

1887
03:05:35,420 --> 03:05:38,080
because I have to look at, we have to look at everyone

1888
03:05:38,080 --> 03:05:39,400
that lives in this village.

1889
03:05:40,080 --> 03:05:43,880
And I encourage you all to do with the mayor suggested,

1890
03:05:44,440 --> 03:05:46,740
and maybe reach out to the developer

1891
03:05:46,740 --> 03:05:49,800
and try to arrange more accommodations

1892
03:05:49,800 --> 03:05:51,160
that you can get from him.

1893
03:05:51,160 --> 03:05:58,860
I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm thinking that he's a man of his word and that he'll follow up with it again

1894
03:05:58,860 --> 03:06:04,560
I I thank you all for coming out and supporting us and supporting the village

1895
03:06:04,560 --> 03:06:13,230
It's still the greatest city in Florida and if not the United States and you know, we all

1896
03:06:14,620 --> 03:06:21,060
Still residents, so we we we we appreciate everything that you guys did and thank you

1897
03:06:21,160 --> 03:06:22,180
Thank you.

1898
03:06:22,700 --> 03:06:25,800
So Madam Perk, we have a motion and we have a second.

1899
03:06:25,920 --> 03:06:26,540
Yes, we do.

1900
03:06:26,960 --> 03:06:28,960
So let's call the roll.

1901
03:06:29,200 --> 03:06:30,380
Council Member Feasal.

1902
03:06:31,540 --> 03:06:32,160
Council Member Feasal.

1903
03:06:33,260 --> 03:06:33,520
Aye.

1904
03:06:34,500 --> 03:06:35,520
Council Member Lopez.

1905
03:06:36,340 --> 03:06:37,040
Council Member Ward.

1906
03:06:37,740 --> 03:06:38,600
Council Member Zulaki.

1907
03:06:39,240 --> 03:06:40,120
Place Mayor Ribble.

1908
03:06:40,900 --> 03:06:41,700
May I McQueen.

1909
03:06:42,420 --> 03:06:42,480
Aye.

1910
03:06:43,440 --> 03:06:48,180
Now that the council has ruled, this hearing is ready to be adjourned.

1911
03:06:48,560 --> 03:06:50,620
May I have a motion to adjourn?

1912
03:06:51,400 --> 03:06:54,080
Thank you, Mary, but let's all move from Larry Fesal.

1913
03:06:54,260 --> 03:06:54,620
I'm sorry.

1914
03:06:55,400 --> 03:06:56,040
Me as a jerk.