1 00:00:52,940 --> 00:01:04,740 All right, the time is 4 o'clock. My name is Ted Loring. I'm chair of the Historic Preservation Commission. It's my honor to call the Commission to order. First sort of business is the roll call. 2 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:17,680 Commissioner Loring, Commissioner Faire, Commissioner Hurley, Commissioner Stuartton, Commissioner Smith, and Commissioner Summers, here. Thank you. 3 00:01:18,220 --> 00:01:24,100 Second order of business is the approval of the minutes, the minutes for the last meeting were distributed in our packet. 4 00:01:24,700 --> 00:01:26,720 I trust you had a chance to read it. 5 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,340 Are there any additions or corrections to the minutes as they were distributed? 6 00:01:33,700 --> 00:01:38,140 Seeing no corrections, are there any objections to adopting the minutes as they were distributed? 7 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:43,400 Seeing no objections, the minutes were approved as distributed. 8 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:50,760 Public hearings, old and new, nothing on the agenda. 9 00:01:54,220 --> 00:01:57,120 You're okay, Street.com, anything to share there? 10 00:01:57,660 --> 00:02:01,720 Yeah, I am going to notice that I combined the two items into one since I have been 11 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:03,200 doing the update together. 12 00:02:04,100 --> 00:02:09,520 No updates on Eureka History.com, but the incentive ideas, right, the top Eureka website, 13 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,940 I'm happy to report that Alex is going to take on that effort. 14 00:02:12,940 --> 00:02:21,300 And we are really, we were hoping to bring back the web page with kind of what previous 15 00:02:21,300 --> 00:02:23,140 assistant planner Henry, 16 00:02:25,290 --> 00:02:30,510 thank you, Baker had done, so we'll probably start there, but 17 00:02:30,510 --> 00:02:33,950 we're not sure if we're going to be able to get it done by October because we need to take 18 00:02:33,950 --> 00:02:36,810 talk to we could training and apparently it's very involved. 19 00:02:37,530 --> 00:02:41,550 So we're going to do that together this month and so if we don't have anything for you in 20 00:02:41,550 --> 00:02:45,570 October meeting will definitely have something for you by the November meeting. 21 00:02:47,270 --> 00:02:50,690 And then some of the items that we discussed here tonight, we can talk about whether we want 22 00:02:50,690 --> 00:02:54,370 that to be on Toki Rika or the web page we're creating or if we just want to put it on the 23 00:02:54,370 --> 00:02:59,590 city planning historic Rika web page. So we'll get to that later. But that's all the updates for that. 24 00:02:59,870 --> 00:03:01,590 Good. Thank you. Any questions of staff? 25 00:03:05,940 --> 00:03:07,480 All right. Then we move on to new business. 26 00:03:13,810 --> 00:03:35,310 I really don't have a lot to say about this, just a couple of back-to-back pages that has to do with Arizona and historic properties neighborhood that home I've lived in or been associated with since 1993. 27 00:03:36,490 --> 00:03:49,630 Thank you, is in a national historic district and the taxes are a half what would be normal for Tucson. 28 00:03:50,850 --> 00:04:02,970 In fact, there are exactly what our taxes are here in California here in the property and in Eureka and the value of the home there is twice 29 00:04:02,970 --> 00:04:11,130 what the value of our home here is in Eureka. I've talked to Mariam McCollough about not this. 30 00:04:11,870 --> 00:04:21,410 I only brought this up because it was time to renew our ship agreement in which goes on for 15 years. 31 00:04:21,870 --> 00:04:24,850 Again, if you read the document, and I know you will, regardless. 32 00:04:24,850 --> 00:04:32,450 Um, so it was time to renew it and I thought, oh, I'll bring this in and share it and try again with Mary Ann. 33 00:04:32,450 --> 00:04:38,230 She has gone numerous times around and tried to start historic districts within the city. 34 00:04:38,730 --> 00:04:45,810 And as we all know, there's a lot of hesitancy, a lot of pushback, what's it going to do for me? 35 00:04:46,530 --> 00:04:49,430 Well, it can do a lot of things for you. 36 00:04:49,430 --> 00:04:58,370 This is Arizona, but there are facilities in California, certainly if you travel through downtown Sacramento. 37 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:29,640 Particularly around 15th and 16th, you'll see a lot of really nice older homes. And their primarily were, I'm not sure they still are, but they were primarily owned by attorney groups who, because of the Saudis, months, because of the ability to hold the taxes to a minimum, took them over and redecorated them, brought them back up and to their original glory, which is what, 38 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,260 is required in Arizona as well. 39 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:37,620 We did an addition on our house and it had to have the same 40 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:42,100 parapet, roof line, flat roof, same windows. 41 00:05:42,340 --> 00:05:45,700 I just took the windows out of the existing house that I was 42 00:05:45,700 --> 00:05:49,760 covering over and reinstalled them in the new rooms and into the 43 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:50,560 back of it. 44 00:05:50,940 --> 00:05:57,740 So I'm not sure how to go any further. 45 00:05:57,740 --> 00:06:03,260 This is why I brought it here that you know give Caitlin and others opportunity to 46 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:08,540 try and reach out. I'm happy to talk to Mary Ann again. 47 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:17,060 Yes, anybody has any questions? I'll try to answer them as I mentioned. I was in the middle of cooking. 48 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:22,320 I had to stop cooking and I was making meat loaf and my daughter always says, 49 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:31,020 it's not your mama's meatloaf. I put things in that your mother would never think of putting 50 00:06:31,020 --> 00:06:39,000 in to the meatloaf, but it always turns out good. So any questions, I'll be happy to answer 51 00:06:39,860 --> 00:06:42,460 and any comments that would like to be added. 52 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,380 Yeah, thank you, Bruce, for bringing this up. I was 53 00:06:50,380 --> 00:06:58,640 able to review it, and I thought there were some interesting things about the Arizona program 54 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:07,440 that I thought was interesting. They say only non-commercial properties are eligible. So I thought 55 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:11,400 that was interesting. It has to be owner occupied, where in California under the Mills Act. 56 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:18,600 So this is essentially the Arizona Mills Act. California, as the Mills Act, this has there, 57 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:19,620 what is it called? 58 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,760 The Arizona Property Tax Reduction Program. 59 00:07:25,460 --> 00:07:26,300 So yeah, I thought it was interesting 60 00:07:26,300 --> 00:07:27,360 that had to be owner occupied, 61 00:07:27,660 --> 00:07:30,260 wearing California, it can be renters. 62 00:07:30,540 --> 00:07:33,580 Also in Arizona, it's 15 years in California, it's 10 years. 63 00:07:34,260 --> 00:07:36,220 I think you have the savings and property taxes 64 00:07:36,220 --> 00:07:37,300 is about the same. 65 00:07:37,580 --> 00:07:39,900 I know Alex has gotten some feedback 66 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,160 from someone who got on the Mills Act a few years ago 67 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,240 and that's where we learned that their property taxes 68 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:46,200 were cut in half. 69 00:07:46,500 --> 00:07:48,620 So we're going to try to maybe do an interview 70 00:07:48,620 --> 00:07:54,180 of that person, for some quotes, or maybe some feedback for our talk-y recap website as well, 71 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:58,300 to kind of build it up, and we definitely want to take our materials from the Mills Act 72 00:07:58,300 --> 00:08:02,020 and try to make them more in plain English and user-friendly. 73 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:06,420 So that's why I'm not, and also another 74 00:08:06,420 --> 00:08:11,400 thing that I noticed in this Arizona one is you had to be actually on the National Register to 75 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:17,240 even qualify for this Arizona property tax program. Where in California you just have to be on 76 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:24,360 local register. So are you thinking that maybe if the state of California could do something similar? 77 00:08:26,700 --> 00:08:31,200 Yeah, it seems like it would have to be a state program. And just like the Mills Act is a state 78 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:37,640 program and allows local state and federal or national. So I'm not sure, yeah, if we could mimic 79 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:41,720 something like this here without maybe the state by off, but we definitely can beef up 80 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,860 advertising the mills at program making it more 81 00:08:44,860 --> 00:08:52,220 plain English well there are other historic districts in Tucson in fact there's a lot of a lot of 82 00:08:52,220 --> 00:08:58,380 this happens to be a national historic district so that's where the national status comes from 83 00:08:59,340 --> 00:09:04,420 oh so you're saying yeah because according to this handout that that you's had to be eligible yeah 84 00:09:04,420 --> 00:09:13,160 had to be on the national register as well as follow their minimum maintenance and restoration 85 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:13,760 standards. 86 00:09:14,060 --> 00:09:19,260 I thought that was really interesting and I liked those ideas as well that they provided 87 00:09:19,260 --> 00:09:21,040 on the back page of your packet. 88 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:26,400 And it's not most of the homes are not on the national register at all. 89 00:09:26,580 --> 00:09:33,060 They're just in a national historic district and so they qualify as part of that. 90 00:09:33,060 --> 00:09:41,020 primarily from the 30s and 40s. And if they do extensive remodeling on their house like a home or 91 00:09:41,020 --> 00:09:48,620 block and a half from us, it will be opted out because they didn't go through shipbo. They didn't 92 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:59,440 go get it. We have a neighborhood review commission that decides whether they can stay in or not. 93 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:10,580 On every single property in this area and it's large. It's 15 blocks, probably one way. Starts at first and goes 94 00:10:10,580 --> 00:10:16,060 about 12. Okay. I think maybe not all the properties of the national district have to be listed 95 00:10:16,060 --> 00:10:20,560 maybe separately because it does see it. It just wanted to pull out the application that we're 96 00:10:20,560 --> 00:10:24,860 Bill and he does say third street, but it needs to be listed. 97 00:10:25,220 --> 00:10:27,060 It says conditions, let's do the National Historic. 98 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:33,120 It starts on first, next to Speedway, if you're familiar with Speedway, is where they 99 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,400 used to be able to drive five miles an hour. 100 00:10:36,100 --> 00:10:44,400 And that was the fastest when they first went from Horses and Buggie and Tucson to Horses 101 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:50,500 carriages, and that was the they had to figure out some speed to limit it. So it's speed 102 00:10:50,500 --> 00:10:59,520 away for a second, Hawthorne, which I tell people it's on the same street as the women's 103 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:07,160 softball stadium. And many people know where the women's softball stadium is because Arizona 104 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:13,640 University of Arizona women have one national championship quite a few times. And then the 105 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:19,720 author and then third and third has much larger and many homes on the national register but 106 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:28,520 much larger properties and larger lots as well, a combination thereof, and their value is twice 107 00:11:29,180 --> 00:11:36,820 what my home is valued at. It's very interesting to the whole activity. 108 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:41,000 Yeah, interesting. Thanks for the information I got to learn something. 109 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,620 I'll let the record show that Commissioner Hurley has joined us. 110 00:11:47,140 --> 00:11:48,820 Other questions, Bruce, or comments? 111 00:11:51,850 --> 00:11:52,790 Just think it on that. 112 00:11:52,870 --> 00:11:59,310 I saw yesterday in the news, I guess there's a house that was built in Phoenix in 1902, 113 00:11:59,410 --> 00:12:03,570 so 10 years before it became a state, and Arizona State's trying to build a new medical 114 00:12:03,570 --> 00:12:11,350 center, and they wanted to raise the home, and because they want that block, and the 115 00:12:11,350 --> 00:12:17,850 on our didn't budge. And after 12,000 signatures and public 116 00:12:17,850 --> 00:12:21,550 cryback Arizona State announced that they're withdrawing its court proceedings. 117 00:12:22,050 --> 00:12:25,950 So even though it was listed on the historical Phoenix historical register and 118 00:12:25,950 --> 00:12:31,070 everything Arizona State still wanted to just just demolish it and everything 119 00:12:31,070 --> 00:12:35,590 and it's a beautiful 1902 queen and everything and I don't know if you go online 120 00:12:35,590 --> 00:12:38,310 and look at it, that means that's one of those things where like historical 121 00:12:38,310 --> 00:12:44,650 properties are important because you don't want as good as Arizona State is. I mean that's that's my school and stuff 122 00:12:45,350 --> 00:12:50,390 but you know as good as they are and everything I mean even they can want to you know 123 00:12:53,240 --> 00:13:00,320 take down historical things for for progress or their need they're want you know 124 00:13:01,620 --> 00:13:05,500 and if we were looking for a local example we could say the Nixon House. 125 00:13:08,190 --> 00:13:08,870 How many others? 126 00:13:08,870 --> 00:13:09,930 I don't know, yeah. 127 00:13:10,570 --> 00:13:11,230 In other comments? 128 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:18,440 And Jesse, you have a presentation. 129 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,500 So as I was saying, like, at the last meeting 130 00:13:24,500 --> 00:13:26,440 towards the end of last meeting that kind of went down 131 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:28,640 a rabbit hole and started fighting a bunch 132 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:32,440 of different things regarding, like, wood windows 133 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,360 and lead paint removal and everything. 134 00:13:36,260 --> 00:13:39,620 And Jessica was nice enough to print out 135 00:13:39,620 --> 00:13:44,560 the book that I found as a basically a PDF handout online. 136 00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:52,100 regarding Lead Paint Safety and actually step by step on how to remove it and there's excellent 137 00:13:52,100 --> 00:14:02,540 crock cross sections and diagrams and everything in this booklet that show you different 138 00:14:02,540 --> 00:14:09,600 home, how different windows and surfaces can get deteriorated, how they can be repaired, 139 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:17,620 Steve, those wooden windows and everything and Bruce mentioned something when we were talking 140 00:14:17,620 --> 00:14:25,960 before we came on that at the back of the handout that you can actually find on the US Department 141 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:34,640 of Interior's National Park Service, historic preservation pages that on the back there it says 142 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:40,100 is like the last paragraph that basically, you know, they believe that the repairing 143 00:14:40,100 --> 00:14:44,180 weatherization of existing windows is more practical, the most people realize, and that 144 00:14:44,180 --> 00:14:49,820 there are other alternatives or techniques out there, but wooden windows that are repaired 145 00:14:49,820 --> 00:14:53,900 and properly maintained will have a greatly extended service lives and contribute to the 146 00:14:53,900 --> 00:14:59,980 historical character of the building and so I mean they really push to try to 147 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:28,600 Reserve the wooden windows. And I know that's a huge topic since I've been on a commission that that's a huge topic with people with the window repair. So hopefully this could help out people. And then maybe even on the website eventually or something. I mean, the hyperlinks that I sent and everything, maybe those could be put up as well as people can view the information firsthand. And there was a law passed in 2019. 148 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:33,040 the California Historical Tax Credit SB 451. 149 00:15:33,980 --> 00:15:39,340 It's still active, but unfortunately, the applications are closed because the funds have been exhausted. 150 00:15:39,860 --> 00:15:41,120 Everybody only wanted it first passed. 151 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:45,200 There was only a $50 million aggregate cap. 152 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:51,360 So basically in the last seven years it's gone, so it's already been exhausted. 153 00:15:52,500 --> 00:15:58,420 But it's still active, but it basically what it would do is that it would give you a 20% tax credit on your home. 154 00:15:58,420 --> 00:16:07,420 you can get there's an extra 5% bonus on there for certain things if it's residential or 155 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:10,160 multi-family. 156 00:16:12,620 --> 00:16:17,020 You know it has to be the use of the credit has to be income producing property or owner occupied. 157 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:23,600 There's different provisions on there and everything and I thought that was a cool idea. 158 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:29,520 I mean, people are always looking to save on their tax bill and there's other ways that 159 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:31,300 you can save as well. 160 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:38,640 There's stuff that I looked at where I talked about trying to partner with the local, your 161 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:43,200 local film commission or the California film commission and trying to put your historic 162 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:47,640 home on their list of properties for filming locations and that could be a source of income. 163 00:16:49,520 --> 00:17:00,240 and have your property displayed and yeah, I mean, I wrote down a bunch of stuff, I mean, I got my own notes and everything. 164 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:05,480 I mean, I could be here for a half hour, but I don't want to do that. 165 00:17:06,360 --> 00:17:17,040 What you were talking about with Sacramento, if you go to the California Preservation Foundation website, there's a whole bunch of good resources on there. 166 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,860 information. So that's that's another good thing. 167 00:17:23,770 --> 00:17:25,010 Yeah, there's like I said, there's a 168 00:17:25,010 --> 00:17:30,590 bunch of different stuff. I created a little makeshift. Like if we wanted to print out a 169 00:17:30,590 --> 00:17:34,210 or I could print out a flyer for people, the public wanted something. I printed out like a little 170 00:17:35,790 --> 00:17:42,970 makeshift flyer. I mean, it can be moved around. More info added. I mean, I could add a fourth 171 00:17:42,970 --> 00:17:46,510 fourth page so it could be, you know, try fold or I think that's how I have it right now. It's like 172 00:17:46,510 --> 00:17:48,890 I just see, do you mind the fanor up too really quickly? 173 00:17:48,890 --> 00:17:50,550 I'm sorry, through the chair, sorry. 174 00:17:51,490 --> 00:17:53,950 Are you talking about them beyond the lead base 175 00:17:53,950 --> 00:17:55,790 paint and the windows, right? 176 00:17:56,730 --> 00:17:57,810 Yeah, I'm kind of talking about it. 177 00:17:58,290 --> 00:17:59,470 It's like incentives in general. 178 00:17:59,910 --> 00:18:04,530 Yeah, it's like a hole with the lead paint removal. 179 00:18:04,830 --> 00:18:06,190 Oh, to help fund it. 180 00:18:06,390 --> 00:18:08,550 Yeah, there's different ways that people can get tax breaks. 181 00:18:08,810 --> 00:18:09,790 It can help get funded. 182 00:18:10,850 --> 00:18:13,370 But a lot of it, too, is just resources like it. 183 00:18:13,370 --> 00:18:22,230 step-by-step guide when the booklet on Lev Paint Safety and how to properly fix that, the preservation 184 00:18:22,230 --> 00:18:23,230 of wooden windows. 185 00:18:24,090 --> 00:18:24,650 Things like that. 186 00:18:24,830 --> 00:18:30,370 So I mean, there's a ton of resources out there, and there's also a ton of monetary and 187 00:18:31,090 --> 00:18:32,250 incentives and tax breaks. 188 00:18:32,730 --> 00:18:36,850 So I think that's always good for the public to know. 189 00:18:37,310 --> 00:18:41,090 Yeah, I definitely, I mean, if you want to send, if you want to prepare that fact sheet 190 00:18:41,090 --> 00:18:49,090 We can send it to us and we can put it on the next agenda and then we can review it and we can see whether we want to put it on our talk your eca page or our or the 191 00:18:50,270 --> 00:18:56,210 Historic eureka webpage. I think that's great. I mean, I would love to do little educational things at each meeting, especially when we have 192 00:18:57,070 --> 00:19:04,850 Sparse agendas. I wanted to kind of touch on my key takeaways of your lead paint safety guide. 193 00:19:06,170 --> 00:19:14,050 I thought it was interesting, I mean, the main point of this is that lead safe work does not automatically require removal or replacement of historic materials. 194 00:19:14,290 --> 00:19:16,170 I think that's why you had this on here. 195 00:19:16,990 --> 00:19:21,850 So I think this would be a great resource for our website, and we should post it if you all want to post it. 196 00:19:22,910 --> 00:19:28,750 I think that guide, you know, it just is a step-by-step guide on how to preserve the historic materials, so I thought that was really good. 197 00:19:28,750 --> 00:19:33,310 And then for the Windows, what I thought was interesting is, 198 00:19:33,310 --> 00:19:36,590 I did a search to make, we saw a vinyl in there. 199 00:19:36,710 --> 00:19:39,170 And the only time they used vinyl was it 200 00:19:39,170 --> 00:19:41,390 it could be a material used for the storm windows. 201 00:19:41,790 --> 00:19:43,830 So I thought that that was interesting. 202 00:19:44,070 --> 00:19:45,810 So I kind of wanted to point that out. 203 00:19:45,970 --> 00:19:49,210 And I also wanted to point out that we did get a CLG grant 204 00:19:49,210 --> 00:19:50,690 before I came on board. 205 00:19:51,350 --> 00:19:53,310 I think it was maybe like 2015. 206 00:19:53,650 --> 00:19:56,010 And so we do have about old wooden windows 207 00:19:56,010 --> 00:19:57,990 and the benefits of them. 208 00:19:58,350 --> 00:19:59,870 So I think maybe some of these 209 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:25,960 This hand out that they can take. Maybe I'll leave some right here in front of the council chambers. Maybe when people come in the council, they can see it. Maybe I'll leave one of these printed. So we do have this. It is on our website. You know, but like we've heard from some people, they have a hard time getting our historic eureka website. So that's why we're hoping to talk eureka with our other historic eureka website. Between the two, we can get the information out and easily available. 210 00:20:26,700 --> 00:20:32,620 Yeah, there's also other things that I had found different cities like Iolton and Riverside 211 00:20:32,620 --> 00:20:35,520 and Sossolito cities like that. 212 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:40,740 They have a certificate of appropriateness and it's basically a official document that's 213 00:20:40,740 --> 00:20:43,940 issued by the local Historic Preservation Commission or Planning Department. 214 00:20:44,820 --> 00:20:49,540 And it's basically, excuse me, it basically acts like a specialized building permit where 215 00:20:49,540 --> 00:20:55,140 it certifies any proposed alterations, repairs, or additions to a designated Historic property. 216 00:20:55,140 --> 00:21:00,160 So that can match the historical character of the building and meet local preservation guidelines. 217 00:21:01,460 --> 00:21:03,300 There's different links that I had found. 218 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:08,640 They were talking about why a COA would be needed and it has to do it like exterior changes. 219 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:10,140 Additions and demolition. 220 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,600 It's strictly for an exterior focuses. 221 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:20,140 It does not apply to interior remodeling or paint colors or routine minor maintenance. 222 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,420 They talked about why commissions use them. 223 00:21:23,420 --> 00:21:29,860 to help prevent bad renovations, protect property values and in most areas the most historic districts 224 00:21:29,860 --> 00:21:35,200 that are legally required. So I mean I don't know. I didn't see anything online on the city's 225 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:41,000 website regarding something like that. Yeah. Is that like a survey that you do already and then 226 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:45,400 the property goes to the commission. You guys approve like what the survey looks at that time, 227 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:49,880 the contributing features. Yeah, pretty much. There's a very detailed application online that 228 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:51,740 they can fill out through the city of Sossolete, 229 00:21:51,740 --> 00:21:53,620 like on the city of Sossolete's website. 230 00:21:53,940 --> 00:21:55,900 There's a very detailed application online. 231 00:21:56,780 --> 00:21:59,880 So, and I looked at it, I didn't print it out as an example, 232 00:22:02,220 --> 00:22:04,120 but there's other cities too, 233 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,020 where there's 12 certified local districts 234 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:12,460 in California and they're mostly in the Bay Area in LA, 235 00:22:12,980 --> 00:22:16,240 so Long Beach, Oakland, Pasadena, Pittsburgh, 236 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,020 Redwood City, San Diego, San Francisco, Santa Cruz, 237 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:21,100 Sossolido, and Stockton. 238 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:23,580 And they have a description and a boundary map 239 00:22:23,580 --> 00:22:29,080 of those historic districts on the O.H.P. Parks website. 240 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:31,980 And they talk about that there's a downloadable list 241 00:22:31,980 --> 00:22:34,460 and that each one of those properties are eligible 242 00:22:34,460 --> 00:22:38,860 to receive a 20% historic tax credit. 243 00:22:39,020 --> 00:22:42,180 And like I said, I don't know if I didn't see anything 244 00:22:42,180 --> 00:22:43,280 that the city of Eureka would have. 245 00:22:43,540 --> 00:22:45,780 And I don't know if old town would even qualify 246 00:22:45,780 --> 00:22:49,840 for something like that. So that could be something that could be looked for in the future. 247 00:22:50,100 --> 00:22:53,900 I'm sure that I'm sure a lot of business owners and everything would probably 248 00:22:53,900 --> 00:22:59,320 like that if it qualified. Yeah, no, certainly. If you could send me links to that research, 249 00:22:59,460 --> 00:23:07,540 I'd really appreciate it. Our wish list with CLG is to get a grant to kind of redo our green 250 00:23:07,540 --> 00:23:14,340 book survey and dig down into more contributing features. Because our green book was the basis 251 00:23:14,340 --> 00:23:20,320 for our historic register and it doesn't have very much information in it so someone like me 252 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,580 when I came on board at first I'm like oh those are the contributing features in the green 253 00:23:23,580 --> 00:23:30,660 back and then as I came before this body I learned very quickly that no it's not just what's 254 00:23:30,660 --> 00:23:35,000 it's basic you know and you're the experts you know what it looked like before but I mean I 255 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:40,860 couldn't even visually see wooden gutters up there before you know so I think it would be extremely 256 00:23:40,860 --> 00:23:45,880 helpful, but that all costs money. And the effort that happened in the 70s was a huge effort. 257 00:23:46,140 --> 00:23:51,940 That took years. So hopefully maybe with artificial intelligence coming through, we can at least get 258 00:23:51,940 --> 00:23:57,380 like a first pass through of maybe doing a street view, you know, a Google Street view analysis, 259 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:02,860 and then having people go and confirm or something, but we want to get a CLG grants will help pay for 260 00:24:02,860 --> 00:24:06,300 that. So we definitely have that on our wish list for the future. 261 00:24:08,730 --> 00:24:10,370 Other comments, questions? 262 00:24:14,510 --> 00:24:15,510 I'll make a comment. 263 00:24:16,210 --> 00:24:26,770 If you haven't read through this little nice little book here, it would be great for if you were teaching a construction tech program or something like that. 264 00:24:27,010 --> 00:24:30,950 Or if you just want to walk around your house and say, why does this door stick? 265 00:24:31,330 --> 00:24:32,370 Go to page 37. 266 00:24:35,110 --> 00:24:41,710 And I'm saying this because I've been doing this for the last month and a half going around 267 00:24:41,710 --> 00:24:50,490 fixing doors, not here in Eureka, but in Chico. And a home that was built in probably 62 by 268 00:24:50,490 --> 00:24:56,110 a construction outfit called Hignol and Strange, place where I used to shoot thousands, hunt 269 00:24:56,110 --> 00:24:59,970 at least, even if I didn't shoot them, they turned in to a housing. 270 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,360 Attract and the sixties. 271 00:25:05,100 --> 00:25:13,520 And without exception, there was not one door that worked correctly on it. 272 00:25:13,900 --> 00:25:30,620 And all you have to do is watch the hinges as you close the door. And when they move the tiny little bit, it means it's jamming against the stop. The stop should have been held back a 30 second or a 16th of an inch away from the door on that side. 273 00:25:30,620 --> 00:25:36,620 and it goes into great detail on it. It's just really interesting. I will say that you don't 274 00:25:36,620 --> 00:25:44,300 have to worry about driving a 316s or a quarter inch dowel into screw holes if they're too big. 275 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:51,660 I simply squirt glue in there and put toothpicks in it. Then drive a new screw into that. 276 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,180 We all have our techniques, but thank you very much for this book. 277 00:25:56,120 --> 00:26:03,080 Also, if you want to know about, if you're not sure if there's lead paint in your house or the year, 278 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:09,160 as long as you're the owner, you can always call the assessor's office, and you can, 279 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,160 obviously, if the verify that you're the owner, because they can't give out information 280 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:16,300 unless you are the owner, but you can find out what year your home was built. 281 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:21,260 And if it's before 78, obviously there's a good chance there's probably lead, but I believe 282 00:26:21,260 --> 00:26:26,100 that most hardware stores you can get a lead testing kit and it's like a little marker and 283 00:26:26,100 --> 00:26:33,420 you rub it on the on the on the paint and it turns a certain color. I think some of them 284 00:26:33,420 --> 00:26:37,240 turn like purple and then it'll tell you like oh yeah it's positive for lead and then obviously 285 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:43,580 there's a whole different step and containment and companies that handle that type of removal 286 00:26:48,210 --> 00:26:56,110 In my experience, this is a vast overstatement, but in many cases the simplest solution for 287 00:26:56,110 --> 00:26:58,730 lead and house is a no-co-to-pay. 288 00:27:00,390 --> 00:27:02,370 Can I speak to lead for a minute? 289 00:27:02,930 --> 00:27:09,010 I have first person hands-on experience with the lead issue. 290 00:27:09,010 --> 00:27:18,990 I owned the House on 3rd Street, 1521, 3rd, that Carson's first home and it's had many 291 00:27:18,990 --> 00:27:27,890 makeovers and many paint coats and I did do those testing strips and tried to be diligent. 292 00:27:29,070 --> 00:27:36,330 And my daughter still was exposed to lead at 25 parts per million which is far exceeds the 293 00:27:36,330 --> 00:27:42,850 five to the point where the county was called and she's had to have an IEP. So there are 294 00:27:42,850 --> 00:27:53,070 serious consequences when you maybe don't even know. And so I just this to me especially as a 295 00:27:53,070 --> 00:28:00,510 parent and a homeowner is so important. And I don't know if there's a way but it just seems 296 00:28:00,510 --> 00:28:05,930 that when I think about when I first started in this home and I was a designer but new to the 297 00:28:05,930 --> 00:28:11,350 and didn't really know where to get the information, but I wanted the information and I 298 00:28:11,350 --> 00:28:17,650 paid consequences for not having it. It seems like there must be a way that this can be 299 00:28:17,650 --> 00:28:25,750 provided to realtors or to the kind of people that bridge the new homeowners and their 300 00:28:25,750 --> 00:28:33,530 historic homes in some way. Maybe this is a website that we can share more with 301 00:28:34,350 --> 00:28:42,190 Relators and people who are putting these homes into homeowner's hands so that they at least know where to go because this 302 00:28:42,190 --> 00:28:43,070 here 303 00:28:43,070 --> 00:28:44,170 I mean 304 00:28:44,170 --> 00:28:48,550 You don't need money. It just tells you what to do 305 00:28:48,550 --> 00:28:52,330 You know, and it would be a great resource to just like 306 00:28:52,330 --> 00:28:59,710 You know in Beetlejuice when you get the guide to being dead like this is part of the guide to owning a historic home 307 00:29:00,370 --> 00:29:13,310 and just do diligence and safety and it's much more in-depth than that led noticed that, you know, you get as a renter or when you purchase a home. 308 00:29:14,810 --> 00:29:18,990 Yeah, certainly. I mean, this is why we're trying to add more resources to this talk here. 309 00:29:19,010 --> 00:29:24,310 We could web page and then we can advertise that web page to the realtor's association. 310 00:29:24,890 --> 00:29:29,850 We did, look at, and I thought I shared this at the last meeting, but I think you weren't here. 311 00:29:31,810 --> 00:29:35,910 We looked into what the disclosures are when they sell historic properties. 312 00:29:36,410 --> 00:29:40,170 And so it is on your title report when you're on the local register. 313 00:29:40,710 --> 00:29:42,190 And because there was one recently being sold. 314 00:29:42,250 --> 00:29:48,230 So it's there. And then there's also a seller's disclosure form that there's a bunch of questions. 315 00:29:48,490 --> 00:29:53,510 And they check boxes, yes or no. And it was interesting because this property that was being sold recently. 316 00:29:53,510 --> 00:29:59,970 someone that works for the city that's purchasing in Stockholm and I'm happy to report that they're very aware that they need to come to the committee 317 00:30:01,060 --> 00:30:09,960 And they're committed to it. But this, this, the cellars disclosure form, you can see they had marches for our property and then erased it. And then put no. 318 00:30:10,860 --> 00:30:19,680 So already the cellar, I mean, they knew that they were on it so that we just thought that was a really interesting kind of, you know, thing that happened. 319 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:25,540 So we are, this was with the City Attorney's office that we were working with them and got the examples. 320 00:30:25,740 --> 00:30:33,140 And so they didn't see a need for a new way to disclose through the real estate transaction process. 321 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:39,820 So then we were thinking about, okay, let's throw some forms in when they get their sewer lateral, right, replace. 322 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:48,140 So we could do that, but there's not, you know, we're going to run out of properties that need to replace their sewer lateral really quickly. 323 00:30:48,140 --> 00:30:53,160 And then the next one is now this form when people are applying for a building permit. 324 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:58,400 They must sign this affidavit form and we're going to get into that at the next item. 325 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:00,460 That we have two examples of this form. 326 00:31:00,740 --> 00:31:03,320 So for building permits, they sign under penalty and perjury. 327 00:31:04,300 --> 00:31:10,540 So then when someone like the startry, you know, just completely, 328 00:31:10,540 --> 00:31:16,860 the big norrs regulations like at least we have that signature they checked the boxes 329 00:31:16,860 --> 00:31:18,880 so we'll get into that at the next meeting. 330 00:31:19,540 --> 00:31:24,660 My home wasn't on the historic registry and so but it is a historic home it was built 331 00:31:24,660 --> 00:31:25,840 in the 1800s. 332 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,820 I think that's one of the things is there's homes that are historic that aren't on the 333 00:31:29,820 --> 00:31:36,440 registry and in this case you know I I had to wait you know is it worth putting it on 334 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:40,520 the registry and what does it take and I mean there's just a lot of things 335 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:46,020 you face and so I and also as time goes on like you said the Green Book was 336 00:31:46,020 --> 00:31:51,220 initiated a long time ago and what historic is is probably changing now I 337 00:31:51,220 --> 00:31:58,200 mean it's already 2026 you know and 1980 was almost 50 years ago and so I 338 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:05,020 think that Reeve visiting what is a historic home here and getting a grant to 339 00:32:05,020 --> 00:32:09,220 do a new Green Book review would be a great first step and then maybe you'd 340 00:32:09,220 --> 00:32:15,820 have a mailing list, you could mass educate the homeowners on that list or something. 341 00:32:17,020 --> 00:32:22,800 You know, I mean, and I know that's kind of like big hopes and dreams planning, but 342 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,840 you know, if there's any longevity in what we're doing. 343 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:27,220 Yeah. 344 00:32:27,580 --> 00:32:32,100 I mean, it all definitely, you know, it's tied to grant funding. 345 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:37,380 I mean, even just sending a postcard, I mean, what do we have a thousand people on the 346 00:32:37,380 --> 00:32:39,440 just during a postcard is at least 60 cents. 347 00:32:39,580 --> 00:32:41,280 I mean, you know, it gets quite expensive, 348 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:42,920 but, you know, being a homeowner, 349 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,320 yeah, you get thrown into all of these unknowns. 350 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,960 So I know this is, I don't know, 351 00:32:49,060 --> 00:32:50,260 to take it for what it's worth, 352 00:32:50,460 --> 00:32:53,020 but I believe like the division of environmental health 353 00:32:53,020 --> 00:32:55,080 of the county, you know, if you did have questions 354 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:58,160 about lead-based pain, they probably could have helped, 355 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,320 but as far as like the city being responsible 356 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,760 for letting people know that their home could have led in it, 357 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:11,500 I'm not sure if that would be our responsibility, I think that would be the property owner or the property owners as well as 358 00:33:12,140 --> 00:33:16,960 And through their disclosure process, but we can I can certainly look into it. Yeah, to your point summer 359 00:33:18,420 --> 00:33:24,100 Maybe it's a good idea to add to the talk your echo at page of certain tabs specifically for real estate agents 360 00:33:25,260 --> 00:33:34,520 So that they have everything in one place. Well as as a real estate agent, I can share with you what the state obligation is what the licensees obligation is 361 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:39,320 and the licenseee's obligation is to make a diligent inquiry of the seller. 362 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:46,680 So the agent is not required to go beyond what the seller knows or pretends to know. 363 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:52,880 So the buyer relies and the agent relies on what the seller discloses. 364 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:59,950 Most people don't think about that, meaning a known anything about that. So that's not much. 365 00:34:00,650 --> 00:34:03,970 You're not going to get a whole lot of reliable information. 366 00:34:04,630 --> 00:34:08,510 So if there's been a lead test, that must be disclosed. 367 00:34:08,990 --> 00:34:12,950 If the agent, if the seller knows that there's lead present on the property, they must 368 00:34:12,950 --> 00:34:13,190 know. 369 00:34:13,450 --> 00:34:14,810 But that's an affirmative knowledge. 370 00:34:15,710 --> 00:34:20,790 It doesn't require someone who lives in an 1850 house, which almost certainly has lead, 371 00:34:21,670 --> 00:34:25,330 to disclose that it has lead unless they have an affirmative knowledge. 372 00:34:26,510 --> 00:34:33,190 So that's point number one point number two is given the age of the housing stock in 373 00:34:33,190 --> 00:34:41,150 Eureka. It will be prudent to consider giving this booklet to everyone who applies for 374 00:34:41,150 --> 00:34:52,650 a permit to do anything. Because that's the point at which most people are going to encounter 375 00:34:52,650 --> 00:34:53,510 the problem. 376 00:34:57,810 --> 00:34:58,890 Other call it. 377 00:34:59,530 --> 00:34:59,970 It is. 378 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:29,900 And I agree with you on that. But having read these two, like Bruce just recently said, we've been around our house to it was recently painted to sand off and be able to close certain windows. And a window that we thought was going to have to be completely replaced. After reading this, we realized we could, there was work we could do. 379 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:36,900 on paint removal, sanding that would make the hardware is there but it would make the window 380 00:35:36,900 --> 00:35:43,300 functional again. But I do think that the whole idea of having a central website is to aggregate 381 00:35:43,300 --> 00:35:49,820 all these resources and it seems to me even if you're not applying for a project you need to be 382 00:35:49,820 --> 00:35:56,120 informed so where do you get information from. And it would be, I mean be ideal if when you buy the house 383 00:35:56,120 --> 00:36:03,520 They hand you this thing, they say, you're going to need this information, but I think your 384 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:05,720 website has a lot of potential. 385 00:36:06,240 --> 00:36:07,700 Okay, other comments or questions? 386 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:15,080 The California contractor's license requires that if you work on a house before 1978 387 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:23,220 that you've finished the federal EPA renovate right program training and part of that obligation 388 00:36:23,220 --> 00:36:31,660 is that you're supposed to test for lead and spest this to protect your workers and also there's 389 00:36:31,660 --> 00:36:37,140 pamphlets, you're supposed to hand to homeowners and renters if you're doing any kind of 390 00:36:37,140 --> 00:36:43,180 demolition more than six square feet on any surface in a house of that age or if you're working 391 00:36:43,180 --> 00:36:46,160 on anything around windows or doors you have to test anyway. 392 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:50,440 So any contractor that hasn't completed 393 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:56,400 the RRP certification shouldn't be working on a house before 1978 that finds for breaking 394 00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:02,660 the EPA's rules on renovate right are $37,000 a day and so there should be some good 395 00:37:02,660 --> 00:37:08,380 motivation but I don't know that the EPA has an enforcement wing in our community to motivate 396 00:37:08,380 --> 00:37:09,380 that. 397 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,880 That's good information. I'm going to ask our building official about that tomorrow. 398 00:37:17,340 --> 00:37:18,340 Other comments. 399 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:20,220 All right. 400 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:21,300 One other observation. 401 00:37:21,820 --> 00:37:23,080 There's been talk about districts. 402 00:37:25,260 --> 00:37:30,140 I was a participant in the Greek Heritage Society attempt to create a district. 403 00:37:30,660 --> 00:37:32,100 It was challenging. 404 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,120 It is possible for the city to leave that process. 405 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:46,860 The question is whether or not there is the political will to do it. 406 00:37:47,720 --> 00:37:52,860 And that is something that we could query the council about. 407 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:55,320 If you chose. 408 00:37:55,780 --> 00:37:58,000 Are you talking about the Clark district when we tried to do? 409 00:37:58,240 --> 00:37:59,380 Was it that what it was called? 410 00:37:59,380 --> 00:38:02,760 Clark district was the only district the Heritage Society is attempted to promote. 411 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:03,820 Yeah. 412 00:38:03,940 --> 00:38:08,320 I do remember seeing how it got through the whole process, even the city council. 413 00:38:08,720 --> 00:38:11,360 But then I had to go to a vote of all the property owners. 414 00:38:11,740 --> 00:38:14,220 And it didn't pass of the property owners. 415 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:16,000 Yep. 416 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:18,960 Why didn't that pass? 417 00:38:19,260 --> 00:38:20,840 What was the general objection? 418 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:26,460 This is just me speaking, so it's my version of reality. 419 00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:36,120 But the easiest way to defeat an initiative is to create doubt. 420 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:45,420 So the burden of proof to get people to support something is substantially higher. 421 00:38:45,420 --> 00:38:48,600 You know, how is this going to affect my property rights? 422 00:38:48,660 --> 00:39:01,680 How is this going to affect how I live and it's easy to get to generate concerns about a government initiative and having increasing the governments role in your life in your neighborhood. 423 00:39:02,460 --> 00:39:11,800 So, it was the simple, the simple answer is that the outreach program was insufficient to carry the day. 424 00:39:14,910 --> 00:39:21,690 I lived in West Clark at the time that that went through and voted for it in an attempt to create a district. 425 00:39:23,070 --> 00:39:27,910 And what I could say about that neighborhood is that it's primarily rent or occupied, 426 00:39:28,970 --> 00:39:34,050 and that there's a distance and a fur landlords to vote for something that restricts their property rights, 427 00:39:35,490 --> 00:39:39,510 even though it may be in the benefit of the city to preserve our historic character. 428 00:39:40,710 --> 00:39:43,850 Yeah, those two things kind of are at war with each other. 429 00:39:43,850 --> 00:39:47,070 And I could argument arguing, provide data that 430 00:39:47,070 --> 00:39:49,030 began in start-tastic will increase the value 431 00:39:49,030 --> 00:39:49,950 of those rental properties. 432 00:39:52,370 --> 00:39:55,730 But again, the argument was not made with sufficient support 433 00:39:55,730 --> 00:39:59,430 force to get their appropriate level of support. 434 00:39:59,710 --> 00:39:59,970 Yes. 435 00:40:00,210 --> 00:40:29,550 And it seems to me that we just really need to get some, you know, junior college program again on how to maintain your historic property and repair windows. So I know we've reached out to, I believe it, correct me if I'm wrong else, direct, garbage, right? Yeah. So we've reached out to him saying, hey, we love to partner with you on some wooden window repair program. So that seed has been planted, but of course it's always about money. So we're going to keep watering that as we can. 436 00:40:29,550 --> 00:40:32,850 But, you know, it's really important to me to get that program. 437 00:40:32,950 --> 00:40:35,170 Because I feel like if homeowners, especially 438 00:40:35,170 --> 00:40:38,570 adventures, if we actually have those programs and young folks 439 00:40:38,570 --> 00:40:40,910 start learning it, and actually can make some money. 440 00:40:41,210 --> 00:40:43,990 And then maybe we'll actually have a lot of people into it. 441 00:40:43,990 --> 00:40:46,210 And they'll be easier to find someone to help you, 442 00:40:46,270 --> 00:40:51,390 which right now it sounds like it's really hard to find qualified people 443 00:40:51,390 --> 00:40:52,710 to help you maintain your property. 444 00:40:54,070 --> 00:40:55,470 Okay. Anything else on this topic? 445 00:40:55,470 --> 00:40:59,470 To that point, some notes about that lead, 446 00:40:59,990 --> 00:41:03,470 hand out that you sent out one thing that caught my was grant money. 447 00:41:04,310 --> 00:41:07,910 And so I went down a rabbit hole and there is two grant programs, 448 00:41:08,010 --> 00:41:09,870 specific to lead hazard control. 449 00:41:10,650 --> 00:41:12,610 So maybe there is something similar to wood, 450 00:41:13,450 --> 00:41:16,310 but the two most kind of eye catching ones are 451 00:41:16,310 --> 00:41:18,950 the lead hazard reduction capacity building grant, 452 00:41:19,630 --> 00:41:23,170 which provides money to local agencies to build the infrastructure 453 00:41:24,670 --> 00:41:29,250 internally and actually fund local workforce development to get people 454 00:41:29,250 --> 00:41:30,870 trained up on light removal. 455 00:41:33,330 --> 00:41:36,110 And on the planning and develop, you know, these 456 00:41:36,110 --> 00:41:40,510 handouts were folks to actually understand the process and procedures for 457 00:41:40,510 --> 00:41:44,630 doing that. And then the other one is the lead hazard control grant program, 458 00:41:45,030 --> 00:41:51,390 which would provide money for, again, workforce development, but also provide 459 00:41:51,390 --> 00:41:57,130 money to specifically low-income households and households that have children that are under 460 00:41:57,130 --> 00:42:03,810 six years old. So those would be the only eligible people to apply, but that would provide 461 00:42:03,810 --> 00:42:08,770 direct money to folks to get this work done. And then those two programs would work hand-in-hand, 462 00:42:08,830 --> 00:42:15,070 so we would do local workforce development and actually give the homeowners money to pay the new 463 00:42:15,070 --> 00:42:20,710 workforce development. The only issue I saw with this is it does require cost sharing and matching 464 00:42:20,710 --> 00:42:27,150 on the local government level, so maybe we would have to look at the actual grant requirements, 465 00:42:27,530 --> 00:42:33,830 but maybe we can use another grant to match or at some point fundraise or something to match 466 00:42:33,830 --> 00:42:40,810 those grant, but those are available. And from what I looked at quickly, there is going to be funding 467 00:42:40,810 --> 00:42:49,690 in the budget, the California budget up until 2727 and 2028, so there is maybe an opportunity 468 00:42:49,690 --> 00:42:50,730 there in the future. 469 00:42:51,350 --> 00:42:53,110 Can the whole motor provide the match? 470 00:42:55,170 --> 00:42:55,930 I don't know. 471 00:42:56,290 --> 00:42:58,030 That might be something to look into. 472 00:42:58,470 --> 00:43:01,510 Because if the whole motor can, it becomes an easy sell. 473 00:43:02,210 --> 00:43:03,890 You want to do the fix up. 474 00:43:04,330 --> 00:43:08,750 We'll match you 50 cents for every 50 cents you put out there. 475 00:43:08,990 --> 00:43:11,870 Yeah, we'll have to look at the terms, but there's definitely something there. 476 00:43:11,870 --> 00:43:12,430 I think. 477 00:43:15,020 --> 00:43:19,080 Good. Good. I would encourage you to continue diving at a rabbit house. 478 00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:20,980 Thank you. 479 00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:22,460 Any other comments on this item? 480 00:43:23,980 --> 00:43:29,720 There's a resource locally. I believe the RCA has an XRP gun. 481 00:43:29,860 --> 00:43:36,340 It's an X-ray tool used to test painted items in place that tells you the percentage of lead paint. 482 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:39,640 I'm not sure who it's available to. 483 00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:47,140 not available to local contractors. You can hire material consultants like Zindar Brunell 484 00:43:47,140 --> 00:43:51,440 who runs Brunell on Clark Consulting. There's a handful of others that have the same tool. 485 00:43:52,140 --> 00:43:57,960 But for homeowners that are eligible through RCA, there's a tool. 486 00:44:00,140 --> 00:44:05,860 Great. Thank you. And our senior player, Lil Heffner, used to work for RCA. So I think I can ask him about it. 487 00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:12,840 Yeah, those like little handheld XRF scanners, those things are kind of cool because they 488 00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:18,840 could test the ground too for not fairest metals and things like that. 489 00:44:19,100 --> 00:44:22,340 So they're kind of cool, those, there's huge machines, and then there's little handheld 490 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:23,240 ones. 491 00:44:25,830 --> 00:44:26,450 Any other comments? 492 00:44:27,250 --> 00:44:28,750 You guys know, I'm going to hell with a lot. 493 00:44:30,700 --> 00:44:30,860 All right. 494 00:44:30,980 --> 00:44:34,340 I know just enough to be dangerous as to we as a group. 495 00:44:36,340 --> 00:44:59,320 It anything else on these reports we've had, interesting discussion, all right, then the last item under new business is the property perit acknowledgement form, this I believe was intended to avoid the people who didn't really understand the difference between like kind and 496 00:44:59,320 --> 00:44:59,860 . 497 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:05,080 Well, I'm just fixing it up, aren't I? So present the forms to us. 498 00:45:05,140 --> 00:45:26,080 Yeah, yeah, thank you. So Alex, prepared the, let's see, I guess the first draft. No, the second draft. Okay, so I, so she prepared the first draft in after with our talks really just focusing on exterior alterations and providing detailed descriptions of what like for like means. 499 00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:34,260 And then really kind of geared it towards contractors and when I was reviewing it, it kind of gave me an idea where it's like, maybe it's for all 500 00:45:34,260 --> 00:45:37,020 Building permits regardless of its interior exterior. 501 00:45:37,460 --> 00:45:40,660 So we put it on the website permit. 502 00:45:42,790 --> 00:45:44,990 It's part of the building permit application. 503 00:45:45,850 --> 00:45:50,890 They have to submit this form either way if it's interior or exterior. 504 00:45:50,890 --> 00:45:56,650 So for the the dropped one right you you see how there's well first you put in your information 505 00:45:56,650 --> 00:46:01,210 There's the historic property acknowledgement and then there's a check one 506 00:46:01,210 --> 00:46:10,150 So no exterior work you're saying you're just doing interior work and then you certify that and then now we have proof literally just doing or anything inside and 507 00:46:12,030 --> 00:46:15,750 Then if they are doing exterior works, they could do interior exterior click both 508 00:46:15,750 --> 00:46:19,830 But if they just do the exterior one then there's a definition of what like for like looks 509 00:46:20,370 --> 00:46:26,530 means, which I want to flush out with you guys, and then they would outline the features that 510 00:46:26,530 --> 00:46:31,290 they're changing in there. And so that would be a part of their application, and then when 511 00:46:31,290 --> 00:46:36,090 it comes to planning, planning could review it and confirm whether that's all correct. The 512 00:46:36,090 --> 00:46:40,330 other version of the draft, too, which I'm sorry, was maybe I have these mixed up. I'm sorry, 513 00:46:40,450 --> 00:46:47,550 I probably totally mixed them up. The other version is more detailed, where it's asking 514 00:46:47,550 --> 00:46:52,010 you exactly what you're doing on the exterior, whether you think it's repair replacement 515 00:46:52,010 --> 00:46:56,170 restoration rehabilitation, what you're going to work on the windows door sighting. 516 00:46:56,450 --> 00:46:59,650 And then there's this acknowledge and then a description of work and then the acknowledgement 517 00:46:59,650 --> 00:47:06,430 kind of has multiple ways of saying, you know, you're not going to change the historic materials. 518 00:47:08,910 --> 00:47:10,890 So I kind of want to get your feedback. 519 00:47:11,330 --> 00:47:15,690 I think maybe we might end up doing a combination of the two or really just kind of getting 520 00:47:15,690 --> 00:47:19,310 feedback from you and what you like and if there is one version, you want to add something 521 00:47:19,310 --> 00:47:24,390 into the other advice or verse or you like one now or you want to change the definition 522 00:47:24,390 --> 00:47:29,390 of like for like I can read them on here if you haven't read them and then also something 523 00:47:29,390 --> 00:47:35,370 to think about moving forward is do you as a commission want to authorize or like we know 524 00:47:35,370 --> 00:47:40,150 redwood is very expensive and hard to come by we know you don't like pine is the softwood 525 00:47:40,150 --> 00:47:44,210 it's not going to last long but it seems like cedar right would be the best fit. 526 00:47:44,210 --> 00:47:52,090 So as a group would you guys be okay if wood, meaning only either redwood or cedar, you 527 00:47:52,090 --> 00:47:58,370 know, that's something you can vote on, or we can still take it, you know, play by play. 528 00:47:58,570 --> 00:48:03,660 And if it is going from redwood to cedar, it would come forward to you, you know, for that. 529 00:48:04,430 --> 00:48:07,390 Yeah, any comments right now in feedback on these forms? 530 00:48:07,390 --> 00:48:16,010 comments. I have a question. When I look on the computer here, draft one, draft two was 531 00:48:16,010 --> 00:48:24,550 we're reversed. I'm looking at draft one here. Yeah, let me fix it. I know you said something about 532 00:48:24,550 --> 00:48:31,430 that. I was trying to have pictures so it helped you understand better, but I did that right before 533 00:48:31,430 --> 00:48:31,870 meeting. 534 00:48:36,140 --> 00:48:42,700 Okay, that should match up now. Yes, it does. Thank you. Sorry. I'm glad I was able to fix it. 535 00:48:42,720 --> 00:48:48,840 Okay, it, it, it makes more sense now to me. Thank you very much. A couple of comments. 536 00:48:51,020 --> 00:48:56,040 The first question in each form is essentially is this exterior or interior? 537 00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:03,340 Yeah, it looks like on the first draft when I talk to Alex about how I got that idea she added that as well. 538 00:49:03,340 --> 00:49:08,680 So the first option is asking if it's interior or exterior both, and then really kind of focus. 539 00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:13,480 The idea is to focus on the exterior stuff, but to also know if they're doing interior. 540 00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:14,760 And they're understood. 541 00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:22,100 If I were, if I had no knowledge of what we think about here, and we're dealing with draft one, 542 00:49:22,420 --> 00:49:26,180 I would say, I would check the two boxes. 543 00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,760 Even if it was all interior, I would fill out the rest. 544 00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:33,060 So that could be confusing. 545 00:49:35,620 --> 00:49:42,080 Second point with regard to draft one, I have a decent idea how to differentiate repair 546 00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:47,200 replacement restoration or rehabilitation and I know where you got those terms. 547 00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:51,960 But the average person filling out this form is going to scratch their head and say, 548 00:49:52,260 --> 00:49:54,200 well, it's all of those things isn't it? 549 00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:54,760 I agree. 550 00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:55,840 Yeah, I agree. 551 00:49:56,020 --> 00:49:57,660 I mean, that's not really even needed. 552 00:49:57,740 --> 00:49:58,700 It could be taken out. 553 00:50:02,580 --> 00:50:12,280 In terms of the acknowledgement, I like the individual questions because it forces the applicant to think about each one of those individual items, 554 00:50:16,310 --> 00:50:20,250 whereas the definition it's all there, 555 00:50:22,630 --> 00:50:26,430 but this forces a little bit more thought into the process. 556 00:50:29,970 --> 00:50:41,630 I like how on the second one you immediately ask you understand this is a historic property and it's very clear and even bold whereas in the other one 557 00:50:41,630 --> 00:50:54,290 It's just kind of lost underneath what kind of work is this so yeah, I'm just making it clear and I agree that certain terms are going to be lost like like for like most people 558 00:50:54,290 --> 00:50:58,130 don't even know what it is to begin with. 559 00:50:58,470 --> 00:50:59,790 So, yeah, certainly. 560 00:50:59,950 --> 00:51:01,090 So we have a couple definitions. 561 00:51:01,290 --> 00:51:03,990 I mean, there was all the first version 562 00:51:03,990 --> 00:51:06,850 with all the acknowledgment boxes. 563 00:51:07,110 --> 00:51:08,690 And then in the second one, 564 00:51:08,910 --> 00:51:12,050 which is, there is for the purposes of the like for like statement. 565 00:51:12,390 --> 00:51:14,230 It says like for like means of replacement, 566 00:51:14,910 --> 00:51:16,450 or repaired feature will match 567 00:51:16,450 --> 00:51:18,930 the existing historic feature of material configuration 568 00:51:18,930 --> 00:51:20,370 dimensions profile in appearance. 569 00:51:20,450 --> 00:51:22,450 A different material is not considered like for like 570 00:51:22,450 --> 00:51:24,230 merely because it has a similar appearance. 571 00:51:25,030 --> 00:51:26,690 So I mean, this is what we're really kind of 572 00:51:26,690 --> 00:51:28,730 hoping with the feedback, or maybe you're thinking 573 00:51:28,730 --> 00:51:30,790 in the draft one, the acknowledgement with all 574 00:51:30,790 --> 00:51:32,850 those with the one, two, three, four, five, 575 00:51:32,850 --> 00:51:34,450 the five boxes, I mean, that's essentially 576 00:51:34,450 --> 00:51:36,410 explaining what the like for like means. 577 00:51:36,590 --> 00:51:38,430 Also the definitions included at the top 578 00:51:38,430 --> 00:51:40,650 under important, but we can be instead of saying 579 00:51:40,650 --> 00:51:44,190 important, we can say definition of what like for like is. 580 00:51:44,430 --> 00:51:46,750 Or we can switch it and have the historic property 581 00:51:46,750 --> 00:51:50,450 knowledgement up there before the property information. 582 00:51:50,450 --> 00:51:51,030 Yeah. 583 00:51:53,300 --> 00:51:54,100 Other comments. 584 00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:01,000 So we kind of like both sort of. 585 00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:02,140 Yeah, it's a little combination. 586 00:52:02,860 --> 00:52:06,020 Yeah. I think we can do some combining and reworking. 587 00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:12,600 Yeah, I think this will help the applicant to 588 00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:15,300 understand if they have a willingness to understand. 589 00:52:16,660 --> 00:52:20,500 Okay, great. So we could take your feedback, create one version, 590 00:52:20,940 --> 00:52:22,680 and then I can bring it forward at the next meeting. 591 00:52:23,220 --> 00:52:31,340 If you're comfortable, I could, we could start handing it out, but I think if you believe 592 00:52:31,340 --> 00:52:34,560 we have enough time to wait another month, if, 593 00:52:36,690 --> 00:52:39,150 if you can use it informally, I believe 594 00:52:39,150 --> 00:52:40,710 it would help help the applicant. 595 00:52:41,390 --> 00:52:45,410 And that's what we can tell them this might be a form that we're going to get adopted. 596 00:52:45,970 --> 00:52:47,670 So here it is, the draft form right now. 597 00:52:47,690 --> 00:52:51,510 That's what will help you understand the process, where you have freedom of action and where 598 00:52:51,510 --> 00:52:53,290 you've got a seek permission from the commission. 599 00:52:53,290 --> 00:53:01,190 And you might be able to see, like, get some user feedback from them, you know, as well. 600 00:53:01,930 --> 00:53:03,190 Like, test form. 601 00:53:03,990 --> 00:53:05,670 Yeah. Okay. I like that. Thank you. 602 00:53:06,050 --> 00:53:07,710 And then is there engaging in the temperature? 603 00:53:07,890 --> 00:53:15,210 I mean, is there any, any desire to authorize a substitute would for, for redwood? 604 00:53:15,770 --> 00:53:18,290 I think it would depend upon the, the circumstance. 605 00:53:19,050 --> 00:53:19,190 Okay. 606 00:53:19,190 --> 00:53:27,490 For example, I have a 1956 house which has the rustic siding on it, Redwood of course, 607 00:53:27,750 --> 00:53:29,810 because why would you put anything else on it? 608 00:53:30,110 --> 00:53:38,150 I did an addition. The addition has the rustic hearty plank board boards, and they are 609 00:53:38,150 --> 00:53:44,490 indistinguishable from Redwood, and they're much less expensive. So that particular substitution 610 00:53:44,490 --> 00:53:49,150 I would have no problem with dealing with window frames. 611 00:53:50,650 --> 00:53:54,450 The question may be more complex and other components. 612 00:53:55,210 --> 00:54:00,850 That's just my, but as to your question, I think the discussion is worth having, 613 00:54:01,430 --> 00:54:03,630 although I will defer to my fellow commissioners. 614 00:54:12,020 --> 00:54:14,120 At the risk of opening a really large conversation, 615 00:54:15,980 --> 00:54:21,340 what is it that we're trying to indicate with the preservation of the particular material? 616 00:54:22,060 --> 00:54:27,600 If it relates back to the carpentry skills, the carpentry used to create the building, 617 00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:32,040 I'm a huge fan of party products. 618 00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:37,340 I've installed it on a lot of our modern projects, but it's absolutely one of those things 619 00:54:37,340 --> 00:54:44,360 you can't modify with modern job site tools to mimic sighting when you don't have 620 00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:53,680 that Arctic matches your existing profile, and it is comprised of silica and Portland 621 00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:57,380 cement and paper, some of which are serious health products when you run them through 622 00:54:57,380 --> 00:54:58,000 the table saw. 623 00:55:02,450 --> 00:55:03,010 So, 624 00:55:05,310 --> 00:55:11,850 we dealt with this material subject with our last review on the Pine Street project. And I 625 00:55:15,240 --> 00:55:30,080 don't know if we want to rehash that whole thing, but there was hearty lap-siding. There's hearty v-rustic, which comes in the artisan line, which is thicker. There's a, I imagine there's a v-rustic panel product as well. 626 00:55:34,460 --> 00:55:40,320 There's a lot of very specific details that make differences when you stack horizontal 627 00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:41,200 sighting up. 628 00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:47,140 It doesn't always add up to the same exact height as the materials that we were using 140 629 00:55:47,140 --> 00:55:48,440 years ago. 630 00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:54,620 And that really does change the visual characteristics of the exterior side of the house, 631 00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:56,400 especially when done poorly. 632 00:55:57,380 --> 00:56:04,120 Yeah. The question is whether when you have something is dimensionally equivalent, whether 633 00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:07,820 in what circumstances would it be permitted if I don't? 634 00:56:10,380 --> 00:56:17,320 I think what I'm understanding is kind of this not boilerplate, but maybe kind of a generic list. 635 00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:27,200 And from what I know about historic homes, I mean part of what makes them so unique is their individual characteristics. 636 00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:52,480 and I don't know that you can have a boilerplate anything for these types of homes because they're just so specific to themselves, which is why we exist, and I think that while it may be helpful for homeowners to understand what may be like for like or comparable, coming here or seeking guidance is probably going to be more accurate, 637 00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:58,060 it, then giving them a list that they take and misunderstand and find themselves here anyway. 638 00:56:58,780 --> 00:57:02,500 Yeah, and I don't think we're asking for a list of a bunch of materials, it's literally 639 00:57:02,500 --> 00:57:08,780 like sometimes people come in and they have, you know, what some old wooden sighting that they need to repair 640 00:57:08,780 --> 00:57:14,760 or some wooden sashes or something, they need to repair, but it's old, old, you know, 641 00:57:14,820 --> 00:57:20,380 redwood deteriorating and they only want to do cedar. So I think that's what, like, simple things like that, 642 00:57:20,380 --> 00:57:25,880 not like literally just like if it's redwood and you need to replace it like for like 643 00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:30,320 cedar is authorized like I think that's really yeah I don't know if there's any other wood 644 00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:34,620 that would be comparable now someone wants to do hardy planks certainly they're coming in 645 00:57:34,620 --> 00:57:39,900 you know for your review but I think we were really just looking for guidance on the specific 646 00:57:39,900 --> 00:57:47,440 replacing redwood um it's yeah the the the the rot resistant characteristics and the milling 647 00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:52,140 characteristics of redwood, old growth redwood, in particular, or just amazing, but of course 648 00:57:52,140 --> 00:57:58,580 it's not available anymore. Cedar comes close in terms of its characteristics, although it's 649 00:57:58,580 --> 00:57:59,900 not pattern is very different. 650 00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:08,520 And pine, this similar in grain structure and not characteristics 651 00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:14,820 to Cedar, but it does not last in our environment. You can purchase pressure treated pine, 652 00:58:14,820 --> 00:58:17,400 which also doesn't last in our community. 653 00:58:19,100 --> 00:58:21,160 There is finger-jointed cedar available. 654 00:58:21,500 --> 00:58:24,820 I don't know that I've seen finger-jointed redwood boards available. 655 00:58:27,420 --> 00:58:33,680 And there's even a fire-treated redwood finger-jointed product out there that is available. 656 00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:39,060 The issue is that the more and more we get into second and third growth forests, 657 00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:40,800 we just have less and less rot resistance, 658 00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:42,800 and more and more sapwood included. 659 00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:46,280 So even sapwood redwood is not rock resistant. 660 00:58:46,980 --> 00:58:49,620 And if you ever get into home depot south of here, 661 00:58:49,940 --> 00:58:52,840 you'll find redwood in their racks, and it's bright yellow, 662 00:58:53,380 --> 00:58:55,480 and it's all sapwood, and it's not rock resistant. 663 00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:00,840 So what is it that we're trying to indicate 664 00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:06,780 we're preserving with requiring wood in like for like? 665 00:59:07,220 --> 00:59:10,220 Well, this is not an issue that's on our agenda officially, 666 00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:12,000 so it's now something we're going to... 667 00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:15,060 Yeah, just gust of the point of making any decision today. 668 00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:21,360 The question for put to us by staff is whether we want to hear a presentation on the 669 00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:24,360 issue and perhaps giving that give them some guidance. 670 00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:29,740 Yes, I mean, if you adopted it, this form could also include like not only the definition 671 00:59:29,740 --> 00:59:33,880 of like for like, but when we say materials, there could be a little asterisk that's like planning 672 00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:38,140 commission on this day authorized, cedar for replacement of redwood or something. 673 00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:40,380 But we can talk about that another time. 674 00:59:40,380 --> 00:59:45,600 That do you want to agenda as a conversation on it? 675 00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:48,240 I think that's an important topic for us to cover yet. 676 00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:48,380 Okay. 677 00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:49,200 All right. 678 00:59:49,940 --> 00:59:51,820 And please, your convenience. 679 00:59:55,050 --> 00:59:55,610 Anything more? 680 00:59:55,790 --> 00:59:57,890 On the two 681 00:59:58,950 --> 00:59:59,970 Permetic Announcement. 682 01:00:02,620 --> 01:00:07,240 And we move on to director's reports and communications or anything further you want to share with us. 683 01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:20,680 I don't think so, except, you know, we're in the thick of the housing element update. We hired senior planner Kelsey Flittorick. She used to work at the city of Arcada. 684 01:00:20,900 --> 01:00:31,220 We're really happy to have her so her whole thing is just the housing element. So she did a presentation on outreach efforts regarding her tabling and the workshop that happened, the housing workshop at the Dorney Center. 685 01:00:31,220 --> 01:00:34,900 I've watched it last night, city council meeting, it's at the beginning of the council meeting, 686 01:00:35,060 --> 01:00:38,780 if anyone wants to watch it, luckily when they were trying to give this presentation at the 687 01:00:38,780 --> 01:00:42,820 council meeting before, it was at the end. So they got up to the presentations at the beginning. 688 01:00:43,260 --> 01:00:48,180 What I thought was interesting was some of the stats statistics that she shared that at the work 689 01:00:48,180 --> 01:00:53,640 shop meeting a majority of participants for homeowners, but then the majority of participants 690 01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:59,080 at her tabling, at all the various events for renters. And then I also thought it was interesting 691 01:00:59,080 --> 01:01:05,160 that I think she's talked to like over a thousand people, so I just think there she's just doing 692 01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:09,680 a fabulous job with the outreach of the housing element. And then I think on the planning commission 693 01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:16,360 meeting next Wednesday at 530 they're doing a presentation to them. I'm sorry I can't remember 694 01:01:16,980 --> 01:01:21,800 the exact topic, but I can keep sharing with you with the next planning commission meeting will hold, 695 01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:27,640 but it's kind of exciting. So especially since the housing element is going to affect 696 01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:34,720 Historic Properties and has in the character of the unfortified districts, you know that we have. So 697 01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:40,940 I believe they will be coming back to you, you know, probably some time to present stuff, but just stay informed if you can 698 01:01:42,460 --> 01:01:46,180 On the updates. There's also a talk to Rika web page four the housing element already 699 01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:54,160 But like I said, we learned that we have to go through some training with someone at the city before we can just dive right in and it's kind of involved. So 700 01:01:55,260 --> 01:02:00,820 And then I think I already told you last time we do have an associate planner that started in mid July, so that's very exciting. 701 01:02:01,820 --> 01:02:03,500 They're getting up to speed quickly. 702 01:02:04,460 --> 01:02:10,120 And we did get an application for some changes to the women's club. 703 01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:12,860 So we'll be bringing that forward in the next month or two. 704 01:02:12,860 --> 01:02:14,140 I think we just got it. 705 01:02:14,820 --> 01:02:17,420 Yeah, but I'm going to try to sling it for your October meeting. 706 01:02:17,420 --> 01:02:23,400 Yeah, it should be before you sub that's so we do have stuff coming up on the agenda 707 01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:27,420 with who good questions for staff. 708 01:02:29,830 --> 01:02:32,810 Do any of the commissioners have reports or they want to 709 01:02:32,810 --> 01:02:34,910 or information they wish to share with the commission. 710 01:02:39,820 --> 01:02:43,460 Sounds like no. All right. So we enter the 711 01:02:43,460 --> 01:02:48,260 public comment period. This is the point at which anybody in the real or virtual audience can 712 01:02:48,260 --> 01:02:53,440 address the commission on a matter with an auger restriction. I don't see anybody on the virtual 713 01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:58,000 screen. I don't see anybody in the audience. So unless one of you guys wants to run that 714 01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:05,600 and they're in speak, then the public comment period is adjourned. Yeah, I see any, is there any other 715 01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:11,880 business before we adjourned? We standard adjourned. Thank you for a time and attention. Yeah, thank you 716 01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:12,360 very much.