[0:00] - The CACJ is a nonprofit focused on restorative justice,
[0:03] a system of criminal justice
[0:05] that focuses on the rehabilitation of offenders
[0:07] through reconciliation with victims
[0:09] and the community, it's justice with the goal
[0:12] to heal rather than punish.
[0:15] Our five programs are pretrial supervision, youth aid panel,
[0:18] the youth counseling pilot program, mediation
[0:22] and community conferencing.
[0:24] Our program Save taxpayers over $400,000 per year,
[0:28] empower individuals
[0:29] and groups to resolve their own conflicts and are affordable
[0:33] and accessible to the community.
[0:35] To learn more or to make a referral,
[0:38] visit our website or give us a call.
[0:44] - Centre Region Parks
[0:45] and Recreation manages 56 municipal and regional parks.
[0:49] These beautiful parks offer amenities such as sports fields,
[0:52] rentable, picnic, pavilions, playgrounds, bike
[0:55] and walking trails and recreation facilities.
[0:58] Take some time to find your park
[1:00] and spend some time outdoors.
[1:01] Visit crpr.org for a list of park locations and amenities
[1:07] - You are watching.
[1:08] CNET Center County's Government
[1:10] and Educational Access Network.
[1:16] - Alright, I'll call to order the Ferguson Township Board
[1:19] of Supervisors meeting for Tuesday, April 7th to order.
[1:23] Please rise as you're able
[1:24] and join me for the Pledge of Allegiance.
[1:28] - I pledge allegiance to the flag
[1:31] of the United States of America
[1:33] and to the republic for which it stands, one nation
[1:37] under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
[1:42] - Thank you. You may be seated
[1:45] and at this time we'll recognize the assistant Township
[1:47] manager for public works
[1:48] to provide the meeting procedures and the call to role.
[1:51] - Thank you Chair. And thank you to the members
[1:53] of the board, staff and public for joining us this evening.
[1:56] For the April 7th, 2026 Ferguson Township Board
[2:00] of Supervisors regular meeting.
[2:02] This meeting has been properly advertised in accordance
[2:04] with the Pennsylvania Sunshine Act as a hybrid meeting
[2:07] with the option to attend virtually
[2:08] and in person here in the main meeting room.
[2:10] If you are in attendance virtually using the
[2:12] WebEx platform in which to speak.
[2:14] On behalf of an agenda item, please say your name,
[2:17] municipality of residence,
[2:18] and the topic you wish to speak on
[2:19] when the chair calls on you.
[2:21] If you were attending in person
[2:22] with us in the main meeting room
[2:23] and wish to speak on behalf of an agenda item,
[2:26] please address the board at the podium
[2:27] and state your name, municipality of residence,
[2:29] and the topic you wish to speak on.
[2:31] Members of the public attending using the WebEx platform are
[2:35] asked to remain muted during the meeting
[2:36] to prevent any ambient noise from disrupting the meeting.
[2:39] If a member of the public is acknowledged by the chair,
[2:41] they may unmute their microphone
[2:42] for their questioning co or comment.
[2:45] Secondly, board members are asked
[2:46] to indicate their name when motioning
[2:47] or seconding a motion so
[2:48] that the minutes may accurately reflect the re,
[2:51] the reflect the action taken.
[2:53] Finally, a Roll Call of the Board
[2:54] of Supervisors will now be taken to ensure
[2:56] that all members can hear
[2:57] and interact using the WebEx platform.
[3:00] WebEx meeting platform.
[3:01] Please indicate that you are here when your name is
[3:03] called Mr.
[3:05] Thompson. Here. Mr. Patterson. Here. Ms. Stephens. Here.
[3:09] Mr. Heller. Here. Mr. White. Here. Chair.
[3:13] You have a quorum. Alright,
[3:14] - Thank you.
[3:16] Alright. Tonight we have announcements
[3:19] and proclamations we'll start with The Board
[3:22] of Supervisors had met an executive session on March 31st
[3:26] and April 1st regarding a matter of personnel connected
[3:30] to the manager recruitment.
[3:31] We had virtually interviewed some candidates
[3:34] and hope to invite some of those candidates
[3:37] to the Township in the coming the weeks to come.
[3:40] And then we also met on April 7th
[3:43] regarding a matter of personnel.
[3:46] Tonight's proclamations.
[3:48] The first one, we have a proclamation of the Township
[3:50] of Ferguson Centre County, Pennsylvania
[3:51] to recognize April, 2026 is Sexual Assault Awareness Month.
[3:57] Would anyone like to take
[3:59] and read this proclamation? I, yeah,
[4:03] - I'm happy to - Hand that to you.
[4:04] Okay. Or you can Oh, sure. Refer your digital copy. There
[4:07] - You, I've got the electronic.
[4:08] Okay. So a proclamation of the Township
[4:10] of Ferguson Centre County, Pennsylvania to recognize April
[4:13] as sexual assault Awareness month.
[4:15] Whereas Ferguson Township joined Center safe in recognizing
[4:19] the month of April as sexual assault awareness month SAAM.
[4:23] Whereas for 25 years,
[4:24] sexual assault awareness month has supported survivors,
[4:27] raised awareness and inspired action
[4:30] to prevent sexual assault, abuse, and harassment.
[4:34] Whereas statistics show that over 53% of women
[4:37] and over 29%
[4:39] of men reported experiencing con contact sexual violence.
[4:43] Whereas statistics show most women
[4:46] and men across all sex sexual identities
[4:49] who experienced contact sexual violence reported
[4:53] that the person who harmed them was somebody they knew.
[4:56] Whereas, as we reflect on how far we have come,
[5:00] we also recognize the work that lies ahead.
[5:03] Prevention starts with all of us.
[5:05] It is it in, I'm sorry, it is in how we support one another,
[5:11] practice consent and create spaces rooted in
[5:13] care and respect.
[5:15] When we act with intention, we move closer
[5:18] to a future free from violence.
[5:20] Whereas we honor the survivors who have shared their stories
[5:24] and the advocates who have led the way,
[5:27] their courage reminds us that prevention is possible
[5:30] and that each of us has a role to play.
[5:33] Whereas as we look to the next 25 years,
[5:35] we renew our commitment
[5:37] to building a future free from sexual violence.
[5:40] Together we can continue to strengthen prevention, support,
[5:43] healing, and create communities
[5:45] where everyone feels safe and valued.
[5:48] Now therefore, the Ferguson Township Board
[5:51] of Supervisors does hereby designate April, 2026
[5:54] as sexual assault awareness month.
[5:57] We call upon public officials, educators,
[6:00] and residents of our Township honoring 25 years
[6:03] of awareness and support.
[6:05] Every voice matters, every action counts.
[6:08] By standing in solidarity,
[6:10] we can build a future free from sexual violence
[6:12] and create a world where everyone is safe, valued,
[6:16] and respected for claim.
[6:17] The seventh day of April, 2026.
[6:21] - And do we have a motion to adopt a proclamation? Ari?
[6:24] So moved. This is Patty. I'll second. Okay.
[6:26] Got a motion by Mr. Patterson. Second by Ms. Stephens.
[6:30] I can either open up for board discussion
[6:33] or I do believe we also have some
[6:34] of our community partners here on this,
[6:39] on this important topic as well.
[6:41] We can even entertain comment and some remarks from them.
[6:45] Please do alright. If not, at this time I'll invite Ms.
[6:49] Penn sake up to the podium here.
[6:59] - I always feel very short at this microphone.
[7:01] Hi everybody, my name is Jennifer Penick
[7:04] and I'm the Executive director of Center Save.
[7:06] And I just wanna thank you all so much
[7:08] for helping us honor April
[7:10] as Sexual Assault Awareness Month.
[7:12] For those who are not familiar with Center Safe.
[7:16] Center Safe, we really are the safety net
[7:17] for all victims and survivors.
[7:19] So we're actually celebrating our 50th anniversary.
[7:22] We started as the Centre County Women's Resource Center way
[7:25] back when in 1975.
[7:27] Very much started in itty bitty small room.
[7:31] And now fast forward five decades
[7:33] and we have three different locations physically.
[7:35] So one in State College, two in Bellmont.
[7:38] But we really provide services all over Centre County.
[7:41] We, we are in north, south, east, and west.
[7:44] We are everywhere. And unfortunately,
[7:47] center Safe is an incredibly high demand.
[7:50] On average, we pour around, I would say 900
[7:54] or so domestic violence survivors every single year.
[7:57] That's just in Centre County.
[8:00] Add to that number, another 200
[8:02] or so sexual assault survivors every single year.
[8:05] Add to that number, another 200 individuals
[8:08] and families needing emergency shelter
[8:10] and housing during the year.
[8:12] Now add to that number, another 1200 to 1500 calls
[8:17] to our hotline.
[8:19] And again, so much of that is primarily just Centre County.
[8:23] So there's absolutely a bubble over Happy Valley, right?
[8:26] But I always say there's a lot
[8:28] that happens inside of this bubble.
[8:30] So our approach is we're not going to shy away from it.
[8:32] We're going to say the words out loud.
[8:34] We're going to use the correct words out loud.
[8:37] 'cause the more that we kind of give into the scariness
[8:40] of it, and the more that we're like, don't, don't,
[8:43] don't talk about that peop you know,
[8:44] people are gonna think the area's not
[8:45] safe or all those pieces.
[8:47] That's actually when abusers win.
[8:49] But the more that we can say, Hey, this happens here,
[8:51] this happens everywhere, let's talk about it.
[8:54] That's where we see more of that empowerment,
[8:56] and that's where we see victims
[8:57] and survivors able to thrive.
[8:59] But center safe, we provide everything from emergency
[9:02] shelter and housing to counseling, advocacy, support groups.
[9:06] We have our 24 7 hotline.
[9:08] We are the agency that gets called out to Mount Ni Hospital
[9:11] and Penn Highlands Hospital.
[9:13] Could be two o'clock in the morning,
[9:15] could be two o'clock in the afternoon.
[9:17] Whenever there's someone who is getting a sexual assault
[9:20] exam or a domestic violence exam, we are there really
[9:23] to be their person and help them through that process.
[9:26] And anyone who has either gone through those exams
[9:28] or known someone who's gone through them, they are not
[9:32] quick, you know, trauma free processes, right?
[9:35] So we wanna make sure that there are people
[9:37] there who can support them.
[9:38] So we are there to do that for folks.
[9:40] We also provide no cost legal services
[9:43] through our civil legal representation project.
[9:46] So that imagine if you are fleeing violence
[9:49] or you are navigating, you know, interactions
[9:53] with your perpetrator, whether it's
[9:54] through sexual assault or otherwise.
[9:56] Imagine if they had an attorney
[9:58] and you didn't have an attorney.
[9:59] Kind of what do you think that
[10:00] that would look like for them?
[10:02] Or if someone was navigating the Title IX process,
[10:04] let's say at Penn State,
[10:06] and they didn't have a support person with them, again, we,
[10:10] we can be that person for them.
[10:13] In Bellmont, we also have our child's access center,
[10:15] which is where people go for supervised visits
[10:17] and safe custody exchange.
[10:19] So again, our goal is one day, we're not needed,
[10:22] it's just we're not anywhere close to that yet.
[10:24] But we wanna make sure that victim survivors
[10:25] and their loved ones feel supported.
[10:29] So as April serving
[10:30] as National Sexual Assault Awareness Month,
[10:32] CENTERE is looking to spread awareness
[10:34] and education throughout Centre County.
[10:37] Emphasizing the theme of looking back, moving forward,
[10:39] turning awareness into Action
[10:42] Center safe again continues celebrating our 50th
[10:44] anniversary, honoring decades of tireless work,
[10:47] supporting victims and survivors.
[10:49] So as we honor the work of Center Safe, we also want
[10:52] to honor the lived experiences of thousands,
[10:55] and I mean thousands of victims
[10:57] and survivors who have had to navigate trauma and healing.
[11:01] We must remember that sexual assault at its core is a
[11:04] devastating abuse of power.
[11:06] One that affects people of every identity.
[11:09] It's on all of us to stand up and speak out against it.
[11:12] Not only to improve the laws
[11:13] and services available to victims and survivors,
[11:16] but also to change the culture
[11:17] and change the attitudes that allow sexual assault
[11:20] to remain so pervasive.
[11:22] Turning awareness into action shows Pennsylvania's journey
[11:25] to ending sexual abuse, assault, and harassment.
[11:28] It honors the survivors, the advocates, and the centers.
[11:33] I will add the Centers doing work 24 7 across the state,
[11:38] often with insufficient funding,
[11:41] but we can talk about that later.
[11:43] Those who came before
[11:45] and those who will continue to work
[11:46] to build stronger communities.
[11:48] This theme asks everyone in Pennsylvania
[11:50] to turn awareness into real, authentic action.
[11:54] That means creating safety, supporting healing,
[11:56] and making lasting change.
[11:58] Center safe is holding a variety of events and initiatives.
[12:01] This month we started with Take Back The Night,
[12:03] which brought a few hundred folks to campus to March
[12:06] and to share their stories, many of whom share their stories
[12:09] for the very first time.
[12:11] And more than that, said the words out loud
[12:13] for the very first time.
[12:15] We then held our in Full Voice Benefit concert raising
[12:18] critical funds for Center Safe.
[12:20] And we continue efforts with tonight's proclamation.
[12:23] I'm also visiting all of the townships in our region
[12:25] to talk more about Center Safe
[12:27] and Sexual Assault Awareness Month.
[12:29] Other events this month include the, what were you wearing?
[12:32] Survivor Art Installation on April 10th.
[12:34] I'm traveling to Harrisburg April 21st for advocacy day.
[12:39] And then there's Honoring Survival April 22nd
[12:41] and Denim Day, April 29th.
[12:44] So people can learn more about all of our events at
[12:47] www.centere.org/sams AAM m,
[12:52] we also have a wonderful Twilight dinner,
[12:53] which is a fundraiser
[12:55] for Center Safe at Pine Grove Hall on April 23rd.
[12:57] There's more information on our website there.
[13:01] Remember that each person gets to make choices.
[13:03] One of them being if they are going to authentically support
[13:06] survivors, there are gestures, both big
[13:09] and small, that shows victims
[13:10] and survivors if others are being
[13:12] authentic in their support.
[13:14] So let's show all victims
[13:16] and survivors that they are seen, they are heard
[13:19] and they are believed.
[13:20] Thank you very much. I'm happy
[13:22] to answer any questions folks might have.
[13:24] - Any questions for Jennifer? Mr. Haller,
[13:27] - First Jennifer, thank you for everything that you do
[13:30] and everything that Center Safe does.
[13:32] I, your names have been throughout the community
[13:35] for many years and the work
[13:36] that you do does not go unnoticed, so thank you.
[13:39] I do want to ask this.
[13:41] Pro reading proclamations are great for awareness. Sure.
[13:44] But as an individual, what can we do
[13:46] if we visit the website?
[13:47] Are there ways for us to help out as individuals
[13:50] - Always center safe
[13:51] and every nonprofit, you'll not see us turn many
[13:54] folks or many things away.
[13:56] And again, this month is really about
[13:57] 'cause awareness is, is important.
[13:59] But, you know, show me the person who, who isn't aware
[14:02] that there's sexual assault and domestic violence,
[14:04] but it's more, okay, we, we are aware that's key.
[14:06] Now what are we going to do about it?
[14:08] So if we all agree that sexual assault is really,
[14:10] really bad, which I think we all do well,
[14:13] what do we wanna do to make a change?
[14:15] And sometimes people feel stuck
[14:17] because they feel like it's such a huge issue
[14:18] and what can I possibly do?
[14:20] But that's why I say even small gestures, it could be, oh,
[14:24] I have some time to volunteer.
[14:26] Or certainly I could wear denim the end of the month
[14:29] and post a photo and tag center safe in it, right?
[14:32] So it could be really small things,
[14:33] but I always say treat each other as human beings.
[14:37] So, you know, make eye contact with people
[14:39] when someone looks down, ask them how they're doing,
[14:42] ask them how you can help them be aware of the resources.
[14:46] So things that really, I would consider
[14:48] like the low hanging fruit.
[14:49] But it's, it's still really important.
[14:52] But certainly I think a, a big thing,
[14:54] especially at this time is advocating for center Safe
[14:57] and those who are doing that kind of work, you know, talking
[15:00] with your legislators, I'll just say in the state budget,
[15:04] for example, the rape crisis line item has not seen a,
[15:07] an increase in six consecutive years.
[15:10] So when there's level funding after level funding,
[15:12] after level funding and our demand is growing and growing
[15:16] and growing, you can imagine what we are having to,
[15:20] you know, deal with, right?
[15:21] So it could be donating to Center Safe,
[15:25] it could be donating time,
[15:27] it could be just spreading the word on social media.
[15:30] There's just, there, there, there's so many things.
[15:32] But I would encourage folks though, to examine
[15:34] what are they not just comfortable doing,
[15:36] but even like go outside your box a little bit, right?
[15:39] And just maybe I need to learn a little bit more about this.
[15:42] Maybe I need to ask some more questions.
[15:43] Maybe I need to have some conversations with somebody
[15:45] that maybe I was kind of putting off.
[15:47] It's kind of all those things.
[15:50] I hope that answers your question.
[15:51] I'm like, everything, anything and everything is helpful.
[15:54] - Thank you. That is very helpful. Yes.
[15:56] So I appreciate that. Thank you.
[15:57] - Sure. - Anyone else?
[16:03] - Otherwise, - I was gonna say I'm open to any remarks from
[16:07] the board or even, even staff.
[16:10] - You know, - I have nothing to say other than everything
[16:14] that you said was amazing
[16:15] and thank you. Thank you for the work
[16:17] - You're doing.
[16:18] Thank you. Well thanks everybody. That was easy.
[16:22] - Appreciate it.
[16:24] - And looking in the audience, either online
[16:27] or virtually, just wanted
[16:28] to give one more opportunity if anyone else had any remarks
[16:31] they wanted to share.
[16:35] Not seeing none, we do have a motion on the table.
[16:38] All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed?
[16:42] Say no.
[16:44] - Right. - Proclamation has been adopted.
[16:49] Next proclamation is recognizing April 18th, 2026
[16:54] is the 30th annual watershed cleanup day.
[16:57] Anyone wanted to read this proclamation?
[17:02] If not, I will read a proclamation of Township
[17:06] of Ferguson Centre County, Pennsylvania
[17:08] to recognize April 18th, 2026.
[17:10] This is the 30th annual watershed cleanup day.
[17:13] Whereas on April 18th, 2026 30th,
[17:16] annual Watershed cleanup day will take place.
[17:19] And whereas this event is organized
[17:21] by Clearwater Conservancy, a nonprofit organization
[17:25] that strives to promote environmental outreach
[17:27] and stewardship of the area's water resources.
[17:31] And where Ferguson Township affirms its commitment
[17:33] to environmental stewardship
[17:35] and preserving the quality of life in its mission statement
[17:38] and strategic plan.
[17:40] And whereas the watershed cleanup day, there are a number
[17:43] of local sites and projects in need of volunteers.
[17:46] And whereas this day is an opportunity
[17:48] for community involvement, environmental education,
[17:51] and protection of our natural resources.
[17:53] And whereas last year, 664 volunteers
[17:58] pro prevent, prevented, prevented,
[18:02] prevented 12,860 pounds of trash from
[18:06] entering our waterways across 69 states.
[18:09] So that is correct. Great job.
[18:12] And now therefore the Ferguson Township Board
[18:14] of Supervisors does hereby designate April 18th, 2026 is
[18:18] watershed cleanup day.
[18:20] We encourage all residents, family
[18:22] and friends of all ages to volunteer for watershed cleanup.
[18:26] Day 2026.
[18:28] And you can visit the Clearwater Conservancy
[18:31] website@clearwaterconservancy.org slash watershed
[18:37] cleanup day. And do we have a motion?
[18:41] - This is Matt. So moved. - And do we have a second?
[18:44] - This is Patty. I'll second.
[18:46] - I've got a motion by Mr. Heller. Second by Ms. Stephens.
[18:49] Did we have any representatives from Clearwater
[18:51] Conservancy with us this evening?
[18:53] Okay, if not, I would open up the floor if any members
[18:56] of the public had any remarks
[18:57] that they wanted to share on this.
[19:02] Otherwise I, I think both in the proclamation,
[19:05] the agenda there is
[19:06] and I think we also will usually we have done like a news
[19:10] story or social media blast of this upcoming event.
[19:13] So you can go online to learn
[19:15] how you can get involved in volunteer.
[19:19] Any remarks from the board? Ms. Stephens?
[19:22] - I'll just say I had signed up online
[19:25] to be a psych coordinator.
[19:27] Oh. So I will, if anybody wants to join me,
[19:30] I think I said I'd be interested in cleaning up
[19:32] along VI Boulevard.
[19:34] So anybody wants to join me, sign up online
[19:36] and say you wanna work on Vira Boulevard.
[19:40] - Alright. All right. - Come on.
[19:45] You know you want to Omari,
[19:47] - I have to see if there's something on Blue Course I do.
[19:53] So it looks like some of us here are getting involved
[19:56] and anyone else, if not all those in favor
[20:01] of adopting the proclamation say aye.
[20:03] Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Say no. Alright.
[20:06] The proclamation has hereby been adopted.
[20:09] Next proclamation will be recognizing April 25th, 2026
[20:13] as the TA Ferguson Township Arbor Day.
[20:17] Would anyone like to take this proclamation?
[20:21] Get that to you There. I got it. Oh,
[20:22] - Okay.
[20:23] We're good. We good. Alright. 2026 Arbor Day proclamation.
[20:27] Whereas in 1872, Jay Sterling Morton proposed
[20:31] to the Nebraska Board of Agriculture
[20:33] that a special day be set aside for planting of trees.
[20:36] And whereas President Theodore Roosevelt in 1907 issued an
[20:40] Arbor Day proclamation to school children owing that
[20:44] when you help to preserve our forests
[20:47] or to plant new ones, you are acting the part
[20:50] of good citizens.
[20:52] And whereas this holiday called Arbor Day has since grown
[20:56] into a global event celebrating tree planting and care.
[21:00] And whereas the citizens of Ferguson Township
[21:03] and custodians of many thousands of trees of a variety
[21:07] of species which combat the effects of climate change,
[21:11] increased property values, lower utility costs,
[21:15] enhance the economic vitality of business areas,
[21:18] prolong the lifespan of infrastructure
[21:20] and beautify the community.
[21:23] And whereas Ferguson Township recognizes
[21:26] that trees are a source of joy and spiritual renewal.
[21:30] Now therefore the Ferguson Township Board
[21:32] of Supervisors does hereby proclaim Saturday,
[21:35] April 25th, 2026 to be Ferguson Township Arbor Day
[21:39] and urges all citizens to celebrate
[21:41] and support efforts to protect trees
[21:44] and woodlands in our community.
[21:47] - Alright, do we have a motion?
[21:48] This is Patty Summer and do we have a second?
[21:51] - This is Trevor. I'll - Second. Okay. Got a motion by Ms.
[21:53] Stephens, second by Mr. White tonight's proclamation.
[21:57] We are pleased to share his printed on a variety
[22:01] of different paper forest products from actual paper
[22:05] that's been processed to just a piece
[22:09] of timber that's been saw.
[22:12] So I want to thank our wonderful urban forester
[22:16] who I'm gonna introduce Larry McInnis for providing that.
[22:21] And he is got a couple handouts and props
[22:24] and signs and flags.
[22:26] And I was gonna say,
[22:29] did you even pull out the bucket truck from the shed?
[22:33] One area. Thanks. I'm sorry. Alright. Right.
[22:39] Thank you.
[22:43] - Thank you Larry.
[22:49] - Thank you folks. I appreciate the opportunity.
[22:51] Larry McGinnis, urban Forester, Ferguson Township.
[22:55] Ay is a really big deal for somebody like me.
[22:58] I've said it before, it's at Christmas, new Year's
[23:00] and 4th of July, all wrapped into one.
[23:02] We're actually celebrating the hundred 54th Arbor Day.
[23:06] Some interesting facts.
[23:08] Dave Sterling Norton, his son actually founded Morton Salt.
[23:12] So if you have Morton Salt, you are, oh,
[23:14] if you haven't the cabinet, you are related
[23:16] to Arbor Day in some way, shape, or form.
[23:18] So anyway, so I'm inviting you all to participate in
[23:23] this year's Arbor Day celebration.
[23:24] Our theme is 10 years as a tree city USA.
[23:29] That is a very big deal.
[23:31] Approximately 3,500 across the country.
[23:34] When it comes to Tree City,
[23:35] you're either on the bus or you're off the bus.
[23:37] And thankfully we are on the bus
[23:39] and making great strides here in the Township in regards
[23:43] to preserving and promoting our trees in order
[23:48] to earn this accreditation.
[23:49] You might have seen the signs as you enter the Township,
[23:52] we have 'em placed in various locations
[23:54] as you enter the Township.
[23:55] And of course I hang those banners over,
[23:57] you see in the corner wherever I can.
[23:59] And essentially four core standards.
[24:03] One is to have a, a tree commission, which we do made up
[24:06] of some very dedicated citizens, some of 'em employees,
[24:11] professors at Penn State,
[24:13] and also representative of various areas
[24:17] of the Township as well.
[24:20] We require, requires a tree Ordinance.
[24:24] We actually have one
[24:25] of the most progressive tree ordinances in the region.
[24:27] So we certainly check that box.
[24:30] Spend at least 2000 or 2000, I wish.
[24:34] No, at least $2 per capita.
[24:37] $2 per citizen towards the maintenance
[24:41] and promoting of trees.
[24:43] And then of course, Arbor Day proclamation and observance.
[24:47] So we capture all those.
[24:49] This is our 10th year, so it's kind of a, kind
[24:53] of a big deal, special award with some additional, you know,
[24:57] I'll be flying a different flag this year, so, very good.
[25:01] Anyways, this event's gonna be held in Autumn Park, again,
[25:05] April 25th from 11 to one o'clock with a host
[25:09] of host of events.
[25:11] A lot of 'em like arts
[25:12] and crafts, which seem to be a big hit.
[25:14] You know, everybody makes the tree cooking necklaces
[25:16] and things like that.
[25:18] We'll have a ceremonial tree planting where everybody,
[25:22] you know, every one of all ages help participate in planting
[25:26] some trees in Ottman Park.
[25:29] We'll have a tree walk hosted by the chair
[25:31] of the tree commission, free tree seedling giveaway every
[25:36] year the tree commission tries to promote specific species
[25:41] of trees in order to maximize diversity within
[25:43] our urban forest.
[25:45] And each one of those size classes will be represented,
[25:48] so like red buds and black gums and, you know, sycamores.
[25:52] So various, various size classes be enough for everybody.
[25:55] So that's always a very big hit.
[25:57] We usually don't have any leftovers.
[26:01] We have bucket truck rides, which is always the big hit
[26:04] that's really big hit.
[26:06] So if you, I have an opportunity
[26:08] and you're not afraid of heights, please, we'll,
[26:10] we'll get you up in the air.
[26:12] I started putting lollipops in all the, in, in the trees
[26:15] and actually send the children up to go pick,
[26:17] pick their lollipops.
[26:19] So it's, it's awesome until they want to get one
[26:21] of every flavor, I gotta bring 'em down.
[26:23] Yeah, so, so
[26:27] it'd be light fruit and refreshments there.
[26:29] And of course we also invite our, some of our partners
[26:33] to table at the event.
[26:34] So last year we had four or five nonprofits join us
[26:39] and help promote what we do and what they do.
[26:42] So it's a, it's a great time.
[26:44] I invite you lastly, one
[26:47] of the reason we picked Autumn Wood Park was to kind of,
[26:50] you know, share it.
[26:52] You know, we've been Intu Park, we were in Haymarket,
[26:56] which was a wonderful location as well.
[26:57] Now we're moving to Aut Wood to help focus on that,
[27:01] that community and also for,
[27:06] we're being joined at the end of the event,
[27:09] we're being joined by a, an organization called kaboom
[27:12] to get some involvement, some involvement from some
[27:15] of the children actually attending the event
[27:17] to help design the playground.
[27:20] So if you're not familiar with kaboom, they unite federal,
[27:23] state, and local entities
[27:25] and other partners to build kid designed,
[27:27] community led play spaces.
[27:29] So we're gonna join the boat together
[27:32] and hopefully, you know, get even a bigger crowd.
[27:34] Last year was really big.
[27:35] It was a very impressive,
[27:37] a news agency showed up and everything like that.
[27:39] So it was quite, quite a good time.
[27:41] I invite you, invite you to join us. So thank you very much.
[27:47] - Thank you. Thank - You. Any questions?
[27:49] - Any questions or remarks? Nothing. Thank you.
[27:54] That, thank you. I was gonna say,
[27:59] if there is no further remarks from the board,
[28:01] all those in favor of adopting the proclamation say aye.
[28:03] Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Say no. Right.
[28:08] Proclamation is hereby adopted on paper as well as timber.
[28:16] And our next proclamation will be recognizing the week
[28:20] of April 12th through the 18th as Rural Road Safety Week.
[28:24] This is a rural road.
[28:27] Safety week has been a recognized week by
[28:31] the Pennsylvania Farm Bureau who has had a robust
[28:36] safety program on this since the year 2000.
[28:40] And considering our township's rich agricultural heritage,
[28:44] as well as even some feedback on
[28:47] navigating our rural roads in the Township,
[28:49] I think it's important that we recognize
[28:55] safety as we see an increase in farm equipment
[28:59] and other traffic on our rural roads this time of the year
[29:02] and basically throughout the year until harvest comes.
[29:06] So I will read the
[29:09] proclamation this.
[29:13] So this is Proclamation the Fergus Ferguson Centre County,
[29:16] Pennsylvania to recognize the week of April 12th
[29:18] through the 18th 2026 as Rural Road Safety Week.
[29:22] Whereas Ferguson Township's identity has long been rooted in
[29:25] its agricultural heritage, which generations
[29:28] of farm families stewarding the land, contributing
[29:31] to the local economy
[29:32] and shaping the rural character that remains central
[29:35] to the township's sense of place.
[29:37] And whereas the Township's Road network supports essential
[29:40] agricultural activity, including the seasonal movement
[29:43] of large farm equipment, livestock transport,
[29:46] and daily operations
[29:47] that sustain local food production preserve open space.
[29:51] And whereas each spring brings increased agricultural
[29:54] activity on Township roads requiring heightened awareness
[29:57] patients and caution from all who traveled these routes.
[30:01] And whereas the Pennsylvania Farm Bureau's Rural Road Safety
[30:04] Program established in 2000 provides vital education about
[30:08] the unique challenges of rural travel,
[30:10] including interactions with slow moving vehicles
[30:13] and oversized agricultural equipment.
[30:16] And whereas Rural Road Safety Week is a collaborative effort
[30:19] of the Pennsylvania Farm Bureau,
[30:20] the Pennsylvania State Police,
[30:22] and the departments of agriculture
[30:24] and transportation to promote safe driving practices,
[30:27] reduce roadway incidents
[30:29] and protect lives across the commonwealth.
[30:31] And whereas Ferguson Township recognizes
[30:34] that safe rural roads depend on shared responsibility,
[30:37] encouraging motorists to slow down, remain attenti
[30:40] and pass with care, reminding farmers to operate equipment
[30:43] with visibility and caution
[30:45] and supporting all who use Township roads,
[30:47] including pedestrians and bicyclists
[30:50] and traveling, traveling predictably
[30:52] and respectfully within the shared rural environment.
[30:55] And whereas promoting Rural Road Safety strengthens
[30:58] partnership between the agricultural community
[31:01] and the broader public, ensuring
[31:03] that Ferguson Township roads remain safe, functional,
[31:06] and welcoming for everyone who depends on them.
[31:08] Now therefore, the board of Supervisors,
[31:10] the Ferguson Township does hereby proclaim the week
[31:13] of April 12th through the 18th.
[31:15] 2026 is Rural Road Safety Week in Ferguson Township
[31:19] encourages all residents, motorists, farmers
[31:22] and roadway users to join in raising awareness,
[31:24] practicing safe roadway habits
[31:27] and supporting efforts that protect lives on our
[31:29] roads. And do we have a motion?
[31:33] - This is Patty. So moved. - And do we have a second? This
[31:36] - Is Matt second.
[31:37] - Got a motion by Ms. Stephens, second by Mr. Heller.
[31:40] Any discussion? I
[31:43] - Was this requested by anybody specifically
[31:45] or just more of like a this is a thing
[31:48] that exists on the calendar and we're gonna,
[31:50] - This was a thing that exists on the calendar
[31:52] and you know, to, to be honest, you know, i, I
[31:57] ca came from a third generation farm family
[32:00] and understand that, you know, this
[32:04] just the occupation of farming has its own challenges
[32:08] with safety, but also getting on the road can be sometimes
[32:12] even more challenging.
[32:14] Not just as a farm equipment operator,
[32:17] but even as you're sharing space with the motoring public
[32:21] that, yeah.
[32:23] So
[32:25] - Yeah, I remember we had a discussion about this too when
[32:27] we were working on the parking issue in Pine Grove Mills
[32:31] and, and someone had said that, you know, they,
[32:33] they needed space for their tractor
[32:36] 'cause they take their tractor down the street.
[32:37] So Right. It's something that's in our community. So
[32:40] - Yeah.
[32:42] And one thing over the years,
[32:46] well farm equipment's not getting cheaper,
[32:48] it is getting a lot larger.
[32:50] So sometimes it does come
[32:53] as a little bit of a surprise.
[32:55] It's not a little rinky-dink tractor.
[32:57] It could be a combine that's taken up
[33:01] more than just the typical car width of the roadway.
[33:05] And yeah, Mr. Haller
[33:08] - And I will just say stay tuned
[33:10] because I'm bringing trees,
[33:11] rural roads together later for what?
[33:13] An upcoming agenda item tonight. So let's go.
[33:17] This is all coming together. Okay. So thank you.
[33:22] - Just going to ask if there was anyone from the public
[33:25] that had some remarks.
[33:28] I did, I did take time
[33:29] to invite some representatives from Centre County Farm
[33:31] Bureau, but they had some other
[33:33] scheduling commitments tonight.
[33:35] But as one of their members I was planning to
[33:39] present the proclamation once adopted at their spring mate
[33:43] meeting that's being held later this week.
[33:46] So one thing with farmers,
[33:49] sometimes you gotta go meet 'em out in the field
[33:51] or where they're already at
[33:52] because we do have tight schedules at times.
[33:56] Mr. White.
[33:58] - Yeah, if I may. So out in the the lobby there are some
[34:01] pamphlets and I took some time to read it
[34:03] and I really appreciated this.
[34:04] The second bullet point, once you open it, is be patient
[34:08] and I really do think we need to, and if you go through
[34:11] and read it, it says following a tractor
[34:13] for two miles at 20 miles per hour takes
[34:15] only six minutes of your time.
[34:16] So I really would just like to challenge us to think about
[34:19] how we're behaving when we're behind the wheel.
[34:21] In my experience, almost nobody becomes a better person once
[34:24] they get behind the wheel and they become a lot more irate.
[34:27] And it is very, very obvious when somebody is delayed
[34:31] for just a little bit when they peel out from an
[34:33] intersection, it is, you know, just
[34:36] have some compassion when you're on the road. Yeah,
[34:38] - Right.
[34:39] And I was gonna say, I, I also have compassion
[34:42] for the people following behind me when running equipment.
[34:45] So if I could try to get off the road at some point, I will
[34:49] as soon as I safely could do so
[34:51] otherwise yeah, you gotta pack your patients
[34:55] 'cause we're not, not going all that quickly.
[34:59] Anyone else? Alright,
[35:04] I was gonna say if nothing further, all those in favor
[35:07] of adopting proclamation say aye.
[35:10] Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed say no. Right.
[35:13] Proclamation is hereby adopted
[35:16] and Mr. Chair Yes.
[35:18] - I should have mentioned earlier about I may let you get
[35:21] through the proclamations, maybe it would be a good
[35:22] opportunity for the board
[35:23] and those who are still in attendance
[35:25] to get two different pictures.
[35:26] One with Ms. Penick
[35:28] and the board so we can continue this, this month
[35:31] to promote sexual Assault Awareness month on our
[35:34] website and our social media.
[35:36] And then separately from that, Mr.
[35:37] McGinnis, get a picture with them.
[35:39] I think that would be great to continue
[35:40] the promotion of these events.
[35:42] - Yep. Yeah. Now that we've got
[35:44] through all the proclamations, I'm gonna call for a recess
[35:46] and take time to get the pictures and then we'll reconvene.
[35:50] - Thank you. Welcome.
[36:08] - You are watching CNET Center County's Government
[36:10] and Educational Access Network.
[36:17] - Okay, we're back. So yes,
[36:20] we had finished up the proclamations,
[36:21] but just to conclude the announcements, I did wanna make a,
[36:25] an additional announcement on March 24th the board
[36:28] of Supervisors also met an executive session re
[36:31] regarding matter of, of personnel related
[36:34] to the manager recruitment.
[36:36] And I will recognize the Township manager
[36:39] who has some additional announcements.
[36:40] - Yeah. One additional announcement I want to make the Board
[36:44] of Supervisors aware and of a upcoming meeting,
[36:48] also the public make sure they're aware that the Board
[36:50] of Supervisors and the Ferguson Township Planning Commission
[36:54] will be holding a joint future land use meeting on June 8th
[36:58] at 6:00 PM here at the Township building.
[37:01] This joint meeting will bring the board of Supervisors
[37:03] and Ferguson Township Planning Commission members together
[37:06] to consider how the updated land use categories,
[37:09] regional development capacity
[37:11] and community priorities should be reflected in the future
[37:14] land use map as part
[37:16] of the ongoing Centre Region Comprehensive plan update.
[37:19] There will be an open house
[37:21] for the public beginning at 5:00 PM that evening prior
[37:24] to the meeting and certainly more information will be
[37:27] provided over the next couple months
[37:29] before we reach that June 8th date.
[37:31] But that will be a Joint Planning Commission Board
[37:34] of Supervisors meeting
[37:36] and it'll be held on one of the regular Planning
[37:40] Planning Commission meeting dates a
[37:42] second Monday of the month.
[37:45] - Alright, thank you. Looking forward to that. Yep.
[37:51] Next up Public Comment.
[37:52] So at this time, any members
[37:53] of the public can address the Board of Supervisors.
[37:56] We do ask that we do state
[38:01] that this is a moment to address the board on items
[38:03] that are not on tonight's agenda.
[38:05] And if you're in the room, we do ask you to come up front
[38:09] to the podium to state your name
[38:10] and neighborhood of residence.
[38:12] So we'll start in the room.
[38:15] Seeing none in the room, anyone online, right?
[38:19] Public Comment is now closed.
[38:21] So we'll start with approval of the move on to approval
[38:24] of the minutes from the March 17th meeting pending no
[38:28] corrections, entertain a motion.
[38:33] This is pad. So move and do we have a second Mr. Trevor?
[38:36] I'll second. Okay. Got motion by Ms.
[38:37] Stephens, second by Mr. White. All those in favor say aye.
[38:41] Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Say no. All right.
[38:46] Next reports and presentations to diversity, equity,
[38:49] inclusionary activities and acknowledgements.
[38:52] Sexual Assault Awareness month is this month as well
[38:55] as National Volunteer Month, autism Awareness Month
[39:00] and World Autism Awareness Day was April 2nd
[39:06] and Earth Day will be April 22nd.
[39:09] Next is authorities, boards and commission reports.
[39:12] And we'll start with the Center Area Transportation Report.
[39:15] And tonight we are joined by
[39:17] our representative to the board.
[39:20] Rob Deo.
[39:23] - Good evening everyone. Thanks.
[39:25] I, I provided the report out document with the agenda
[39:28] and I'm happy to try and answer any questions you may have.
[39:32] One item I did wanna note, we're at the start
[39:35] of our budgeting process for 26 27
[39:37] and expect to hit our timelines, have an agreed budget
[39:40] by the end of the fiscal year,
[39:42] but I did want to encourage members of the Centre Region
[39:44] to attend upcoming cattle board meetings to take a peek
[39:47] behind the curtain, see how the budget comes together and,
[39:50] and really take a moment to provide some input.
[39:53] Our next meeting is at 4:00 PM on April 27th.
[39:58] And really beyond the report, that's all I have.
[40:01] Any questions I can answer
[40:03] or take away for answering, I'm happy to to field those now.
[40:07] - Any questions from the board?
[40:10] - Yeah, no, please. No. Yeah, just, just one.
[40:13] I mean, I know that's the kind of the start
[40:16] of the budgeting, but any, I guess are you getting any
[40:22] preliminary feelers on kind of increases for
[40:27] the coming year in the ADA budget?
[40:32] - Increases in terms of revenue or expenses or
[40:35] - Yeah, revenue allocation, because ultimately when the,
[40:37] sorry, when the expenses go up,
[40:38] they're gonna need more revenue and ultimately it comes back
[40:40] from the five municipal partners at some percentage.
[40:43] So
[40:44] - Yeah, understand.
[40:46] We're actually going through the proposed budget at the
[40:49] April meeting there,
[40:50] there is some preliminary information out.
[40:53] So the, the thing I can speak
[40:55] to is there was an expected increase in fair revenue,
[40:58] about 3% that we'll talk about the, the board
[41:01] and then there weren't any significant rev, I'm sorry,
[41:06] expense items that I remember from the budget memo.
[41:10] But if there is something Omari certainly I'll come back
[41:13] to you and let you guys know.
[41:14] We've got a few months before anything gets finalized.
[41:17] - Awesome. - There, there was, there was kind of a, a,
[41:21] a good news piece in last month's meeting
[41:23] that Pendo did allocate actually additional funding to Kada.
[41:28] And from my notes when I was looking through it,
[41:30] it was upwards of a million dollars more
[41:32] than what we expected.
[41:34] So that was, that was really good news for cada.
[41:38] - Awesome. Yeah, I've seen the nuggets
[41:40] of insurance going up kind of in, in several places.
[41:43] Absolutely. There I've, where I, I have some information
[41:48] and so just looking out for their, you know,
[41:51] humans are the largest expense outside of the,
[41:54] the buses and the maintenance of the buses.
[41:56] So I fully expect to see some increase there.
[41:59] I just want to make sure we're prepared for it.
[42:02] So Yeah, even if you don't have to come back
[42:04] and we call to the manager
[42:05] and let, let 'em know kind of what we're thinking so that
[42:07] as we get the inputs to the Township budget,
[42:10] we can be prepared and shed tears together.
[42:14] - Ah, no, no tears, but yes, of course.
[42:18] - No joy. - Thank you sir.
[42:22] - Of course. Mr. - Haller.
[42:23] - So I just want to say sincerely, Rob, thank you
[42:26] for volunteering for this role and everything
[42:28] and being our eyes and ears with everything
[42:30] that goes on at Kada.
[42:31] I know it's a, it's a lot, it can be a lot of things
[42:33] that go on outside, so it's an extra burden
[42:37] when in our already busy lives.
[42:39] I just wanna say I appreciate that.
[42:42] - Thank you. Yeah, I enjoy it.
[42:44] So thanks, thanks for the note.
[42:48] - And I got Mr. White, oh,
[42:51] - I, I I guess I'll, I'll ask it.
[42:52] You, you mentioned a 3% revenue increase
[42:54] or a forecasted increase.
[42:58] Are, are you able to say what that is coming from?
[43:00] Is that coming from like campus consolidation
[43:02] or like increased volume as a result of that or?
[43:06] - Yeah, so some of the increases were related to
[43:11] a change in the agreement with Penn State.
[43:13] And unfortunately I don't have all the details
[43:15] and I'm gonna find out more at the, the April meeting.
[43:18] But in the budget memo,
[43:19] there were increases related to that.
[43:21] In addition, I think that there, I wouldn't say that there's
[43:26] increases related to it, but there's the opportunity
[43:28] for increases based on the new technology that Kata put in.
[43:33] So there is, it's in the, the memo that I sent in
[43:36] for the agenda, but the opportunity to tap, to pay
[43:39] and then token transit, so moving towards more cashless
[43:44] to provide more opportunities for folks to ride it so
[43:47] that they're not burdened with trying
[43:48] to figure out if it's tokens or cash or stuff like that.
[43:53] But to your question, there was an increase related to
[43:57] how the agreement with Penn State was gonna go
[43:59] and I just need to wait to the, to the meeting
[44:02] to find out more information about it.
[44:04] - Understood. Thank you. Sorry, I didn't mean
[44:05] to ask a very specific question, but thank you.
[44:08] - No, no, it's a great question.
[44:09] Especially my background at Penn State,
[44:10] so I'm super interested to see what it is.
[44:13] - Thank you. Yeah,
[44:16] - I'm excited to hear about tap to pay rolling out.
[44:20] I, I've got to try that firsthand
[44:23] through SEPTA as well as MTA.
[44:24] It's quite a slick operation.
[44:26] Smooth instead of having to fumble around with phone apps
[44:30] or even the coin coins
[44:32] or cash, have you heard anything
[44:35] about funding from federal government?
[44:38] I know late last week there was some rumblings
[44:41] of possible cuts to rail as well as transit
[44:44] and I know, just wondering if that, how that may affect us,
[44:48] given that we do have cada here,
[44:51] but also we have been cada as well as the region,
[44:55] been looking at possible connecting service to rail.
[45:00] - Hmm. I I'm sorry, I I haven't heard anything.
[45:02] It doesn't mean it's not, yeah, there aren't things in the,
[45:05] the future that I'm just not aware of
[45:07] or I haven't heard through the meetings,
[45:09] but fair question on, on budgeting revenue increases and,
[45:13] and as I, I learn more, I'm happy to share
[45:15] that information back with the manager so
[45:17] that they can share it with you all.
[45:20] - Yeah, and I just learned about this I think like on Friday
[45:23] and with the weekend.
[45:24] So it's, it, and it doesn't sound like it's like going
[45:28] to ha like ex exactly going to happen.
[45:31] You know how things go sometimes in state
[45:34] and federal government, they, they may sell one thing
[45:36] and then, you know, it isn't as bad in the end or
[45:40] however you would see it.
[45:41] So, you know, just something to keep an eye on.
[45:45] - Absolutely. And like I said, I'll take those away
[45:47] and if there's any, anything of substance that I can,
[45:50] I can feed back, I certainly will.
[45:53] - Any other questions or remarks from the board? No.
[45:58] Thank you very much for joining us this evening, Rob.
[46:02] - Absolutely. Have a wonderful evening.
[46:03] - Thank you. Thank you. - Great.
[46:07] Next up will be Township department reports
[46:09] and I will defer to the manager
[46:14] - In, in your packet.
[46:15] It was kind of out of usual order this first meeting
[46:19] of the month, a police department report.
[46:22] It was a report for February if you, if you remember we were
[46:26] delayed because of the system being down with the
[46:30] fiber issue and the cyber attack
[46:34] and the police department put together the February report.
[46:36] So that's in your packet if you have any questions
[46:39] for the chief on that report.
[46:42] - Any questions? And I imagine from the cyber
[46:47] thing here and how things went to COG it, you know,
[46:50] doesn't seem like, seems like
[46:52] everything fared out relatively
[46:54] - Well.
[46:55] Everything fared up well. No, no substantial issues here.
[46:57] The biggest thing was just a delay in being able
[47:00] to get the report, the February report in your last
[47:02] meeting's agenda.
[47:04] But everybody's caught up
[47:06] and I think across the board, the, the whole region,
[47:10] everybody's back up and running
[47:11] and no problems that I've heard of.
[47:14] - Perfect. It's,
[47:16] and it sounded like we went back in time a little bit.
[47:18] Pen, pencil and paper reports.
[47:21] - Yeah, we were doing our old reports we did back in the
[47:24] nineties and then we did our narratives in Word so
[47:28] that we were able to just pop the narratives into our
[47:30] records management system,
[47:32] but everything else had to be reentered
[47:34] and we were down about a hundred
[47:36] and 156 incidents that we had to reenter.
[47:40] - Hmm. Yeah.
[47:43] - But we got through it. Oh we got
[47:44] and everyone that, everyone in the region was impacted by it
[47:49] and you know, happy to say that we were very much,
[47:51] we were doing some double and triple checking.
[47:53] We thought something might fall through the cracks,
[47:56] like we'd find well
[47:57] how did this incident get handled or something like that.
[47:59] And we were able to kind of devise on the fly a system so
[48:03] that every single incident was accounted for.
[48:05] As we got it back into the RMS system, we had to wait for
[48:09] the CAD to download it into our records management system.
[48:12] So once we saw that, we were able to match it up
[48:15] to everything that we had done by hand and we were spot on.
[48:19] So that's, that was good. Perfect.
[48:22] - That's amazing. Thank you. Yes, thanks.
[48:29] Actually a something I forgot to ask in the last meeting
[48:33] and that was on the public work side
[48:36] and we had some solar money budgeted.
[48:41] How close are we to getting some solar going on this,
[48:45] on the property somewhere?
[48:47] - Yes. So yes, the budget had $25,000 allocated
[48:52] to solar funding or solar feasibility study.
[48:57] We talked about possibilities of installation of
[49:02] using that money for installation.
[49:05] Worked with CRPA
[49:10] director Pam Adams
[49:13] and she put me in contact with a group that she was familiar
[49:17] with get solar pa they perform the feas,
[49:21] they're performing the feasibility study as we speak
[49:24] for $500.
[49:27] It's a program that's runs through the state that
[49:32] they're aware that the biggest obstacle
[49:34] to solar installation is the feasibility study.
[49:37] They typically cost a lot of money, so they sort
[49:39] of front run it and they do,
[49:42] they perform the feasibility study for a very low cost.
[49:46] So because we're a campus
[49:49] and we have multiple buildings based on the building size
[49:53] and their matrix, it costs $500.
[49:55] So they'll return us the feasibility study
[50:00] with all of the financial projections, the funding options,
[50:05] different equipment options and all of those items.
[50:09] Once we receive that, then we'll have an idea of
[50:12] what we can do and, and what is feasible
[50:16] and, and go from there.
[50:19] So waiting on that probably,
[50:23] I'm expecting that relatively soon
[50:26] before summer, by the end of the spring.
[50:28] So yeah, or to follow on that, but it's a good deal.
[50:33] - Fantastic, thank you. I'll leave it there.
[50:38] Thank you. Okay,
[50:43] - Anything else for department reports?
[50:46] - All right. - Next will be our unfinished business.
[50:50] We will do a review and discussion
[50:53] on the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board's response
[50:56] to resolution 25 21
[50:58] and I will recognize the Township manager.
[51:00] - Thank you. On August 5th, 2025, the board
[51:04] of Supervisors approved resolution 2025 dash 21 related
[51:08] to an application for an inter municipal transfer
[51:11] of liquor license R 20 2009, I'm sorry,
[51:16] 29 22
[51:18] and LID number 2 11 84
[51:20] to rudders at 9 48 Blue Course Drive as part of the board
[51:25] of supervisor approval,
[51:26] there were numerous conditions placed on the license
[51:29] earlier this week.
[51:31] Legal counsel for the PLCB contact the Township
[51:34] to advise they no longer approve licenses
[51:36] with conditions requested by municipalities.
[51:40] Staff will discuss another option for the Township
[51:42] to include conditions on this inter municipal
[51:45] transfer of liquor license.
[51:50] So in the, in your packet were,
[51:52] was the resolution from last year item number six listed
[51:58] I believe eight different conditions in which the board
[52:04] approved the transfer of the license to rudders.
[52:08] As long as those conditions
[52:10] and anything else stated in the resolution were adopted
[52:14] as part of that license, conditional license such as,
[52:18] that was something PLCB Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board
[52:22] has done for many years, probably dating back
[52:25] to the early two thousands.
[52:27] And within the last two years policy wise,
[52:31] they have decided no longer accept
[52:35] conditions on licenses.
[52:40] They, they want to
[52:44] have either an approval or a denial of the transfer
[52:48] but not under certain conditions.
[52:52] So the first center regional entity that I'm aware
[52:57] that came across this was a State College Borough
[53:00] with the fauna license back in 2024.
[53:04] And because having conditions was still important, the way
[53:09] that was resolved was State College Borough
[53:12] and fauna as the applicant in our case would be rudders
[53:16] as the applicant entered into conditions in a private ag
[53:21] private agreement
[53:22] between the municipality and the applicant.
[53:26] That would be enforceable here locally.
[53:29] And for us, that would mean the Centre County Court
[53:31] of common plea is where any violations of
[53:33] that license would be heard.
[53:36] But it would allow the Township to continue
[53:39] to impose all the conditions
[53:41] that you felt were important back in August of 2025,
[53:46] but only done through a private agreement
[53:48] of which PLCB would not be a party to.
[53:52] And their approval of the license wouldn't
[53:54] be conditional on that.
[53:55] That would be separate and aside strictly
[53:58] between the Township and the applicants.
[54:01] It really accomplishes the same thing.
[54:04] The only thing is, is that PLCB wouldn't be
[54:08] looking at violations of any
[54:10] of those conditions when they go to,
[54:12] to look at their every two year renewal for the license.
[54:15] It would be up to us to do the enforcement
[54:17] of our own agreement.
[54:20] It would also require, if we adopted an agreement,
[54:24] a private agreement between the Township
[54:25] and rudders, it would also require us
[54:28] to bring back a resolution to the board for you
[54:31] to decide once there's a private agreement reached,
[54:34] are you willing to say yes or no approve
[54:38] or deny the license with PLCB so they can move forward
[54:43] with this transfer request.
[54:44] Because as the resolution 2025 dash 21
[54:49] sits today, they can't approve it.
[54:52] They also don't wanna deny it
[54:53] because it was done under the old way of them doing
[54:57] businesses approval with conditions.
[55:00] So the two step process would be get a private agreement
[55:03] with rudders with all the same conditions
[55:06] and then adopt a new resolution saying
[55:09] with this private agreement that you've reached,
[55:11] you now are recommending approval
[55:12] for the enter municipal transfer.
[55:17] I've discussed this with the Township solicitor
[55:20] and she concurs with this approach.
[55:23] I also, just as a notice, so the,
[55:28] that they didn't not understand why
[55:30] we were bringing this up today.
[55:31] I contacted the lay, the general counsel for Rudders
[55:35] who handled the liquor license transfer last year,
[55:38] Jack Burns yesterday,
[55:40] and let him know that I was bringing this before the board
[55:42] and why this has come up and he's well aware of it
[55:47] and had him, without talking to his client,
[55:49] had indicated initially that he would see no problem
[55:53] with entering into a private agreement
[55:56] using the same conditions,
[56:01] - Mr. Heller.
[56:02] - So I say let's pursue the private agreement
[56:05] and then hopefully bring it to the PLCB to say we're good
[56:09] and get that approved.
[56:12] I'm good with that plan, that two step plan you laid out,
[56:16] - Mr.
[56:17] Patterson.
[56:18] - Agreed. However, I, there's some
[56:21] of these conditions I'm not quite married to, if you will.
[56:25] Like some of 'em were, I think
[56:28] because there were conditions we laid out a bunch of 'em
[56:31] and you know, to kind
[56:32] of hold over account some accountability.
[56:35] But there's some of 'em that's like, like
[56:38] put a no smoking sign out.
[56:41] Okay, it's a gas station.
[56:43] There's, there's designated places they're gonna do that.
[56:46] So there's those type of things.
[56:47] I just wanna make sure the right things are in this private
[56:49] agreement and it's not another grab all
[56:52] and you know, put a bunch of stuff in there.
[56:53] It's just the few things that we absolutely need now
[56:58] with those things we absolutely need.
[56:59] I think it's up to this group, but, but I,
[57:01] but I think very few things on this list in the, in the,
[57:06] the conditions are truly necessary for
[57:09] the liquor control board or from a liquor perspective.
[57:12] Like we will be out if you do this.
[57:17] Everybody see where people in there.
[57:19] - Y yeah, just looking at a couple,
[57:21] like owner must insure employee accountability
[57:23] of financial transactions.
[57:25] Well any business owner, you know, would
[57:30] have those best practices, you know,
[57:32] because any type of identity theft
[57:35] or credit card fraud by their employees would, you know,
[57:38] hurt their bottom line
[57:40] and put 'em up with a lot of legal risk.
[57:42] Also staff will, will be properly trained
[57:45] to handle and serve alcohol.
[57:47] Like, isn't that something the state like expects
[57:49] of any establishment serving alcohol already.
[57:51] So I'm, I'm kind of to amari's point,
[57:54] I'm seeing like some redundancies and conditions here.
[57:57] It's like, well isn't that almost a given Mr. Heller,
[58:02] - If I may, I I I believe though
[58:04] that the private entity can make their own decision
[58:06] and assess their own risk and say, yeah, we're good
[58:08] with all this and let's just put, let's just do it.
[58:11] If they say something like that, I have no issue
[58:13] with just bringing this in as it stands right now
[58:16] and letting, and just leaving it at that.
[58:18] I, I don't think we need to piecemeal this or,
[58:20] or take it apart or remove anything.
[58:22] If they're willing to accept it as is, then we're good.
[58:30] - My understanding is when what,
[58:32] before these conditions were brought
[58:34] before the board last August, I think there was discussion
[58:37] between the Township manager and the Township solicitor
[58:41] and legal counsel for ruts
[58:44] that all those conditions at the time were acceptable.
[58:49] They didn't have any problems with them.
[58:51] Of course it goes without saying
[58:53] that condition number seven, the last one goes away.
[58:58] That's the one that says we only approve it if PLCB
[59:01] accepts all these conditions.
[59:03] - Hmm. Yeah. - So it would be exclusive with that one,
[59:09] but we, we could, we could bring it as is
[59:12] or if you want it modified, that's up to the board.
[59:16] - That's fair. I think in the spirit of legal fees,
[59:20] if you just copy and paste, put it over there
[59:22] or no legal fees, it's copy paste, here you go
[59:26] and record it with the, with the appropriate,
[59:30] - Yeah, 25 bucks.
[59:32] And I would also say the discussion of the solicitor
[59:34] and I had about this is
[59:39] we have one other liquor license transfer
[59:41] that may be pending as well
[59:42] and you may have already approved a resolution of possibly
[59:48] across the house Yes, we on, on West College Avenue.
[59:53] Oh yeah, the convenience store.
[59:55] I don't know whether that's,
[59:56] that would've been before my time.
[59:57] I don't know whether that already has had a
[1:00:00] resolution passed or not.
[1:00:01] If it has, we might have to go back
[1:00:03] and do something similar with that situation.
[1:00:06] So thinking about the fact that we might have two of these
[1:00:09] and we may have some in the future,
[1:00:11] we talk about consistency, there might be these conditions
[1:00:13] that we will always ask for.
[1:00:16] This is just our, be our,
[1:00:17] our standard practices we're gonna ask for.
[1:00:20] And then if a, if a licensed applicant is so,
[1:00:24] so unique that it, it would only make sense
[1:00:27] to add additional conditions, you may, may consider
[1:00:31] that there may be good to always include
[1:00:34] these conditions is are standard conditions,
[1:00:38] something to think about for the future.
[1:00:40] But so, so and I were talking about having some consistency.
[1:00:43] Right?
[1:00:45] - Very, very important
[1:00:46] because on the development of the other one, you know,
[1:00:50] they can say, well you, you did all this stuff for rudders,
[1:00:53] you know, 'cause we've had
[1:00:56] that happen on in other context here,
[1:01:03] if nothing further, I believe
[1:01:05] we do have some Public Comment.
[1:01:07] Mr. Keo,
[1:01:17] - Bill Keo, fer Township president.
[1:01:24] Apparently I wasn't present at that meeting
[1:01:27] when this was adopted.
[1:01:29] I, I don't remember it at all.
[1:01:33] But I'm a bit concerned when I read the agenda tonight
[1:01:36] that I, I'm a bit concerned about it from a
[1:01:39] couple of perspectives.
[1:01:42] One is, and I'm talking about the, the one
[1:01:46] through seven items, nothing else.
[1:01:49] I'm not opposed to the license or transfer
[1:01:52] or any of that stuff, but as I read
[1:01:56] the one through seven, several
[1:01:59] of those items are already codified in other places
[1:02:05] they're, they're, they're already regulations
[1:02:10] that already exist in other places
[1:02:14] and I'm not a great fan
[1:02:19] of us, you know, calling those out.
[1:02:21] The, they're, they're already there.
[1:02:27] I think a couple of these we're getting in the weeds of
[1:02:32] how a vendor, owner operator
[1:02:37] runs this business.
[1:02:39] And, and I'm trying to figure out why alcohol would
[1:02:45] trigger this.
[1:02:47] Some of these concepts like the smoking issue, I mean
[1:02:53] it is a business, it already has local regulation related
[1:02:57] to it as a public place.
[1:03:01] And, and I just don't think, I think it sends a message
[1:03:05] that we're not overly friendly
[1:03:07] and we're looking at overly regulating something
[1:03:10] that's already regulated in other locations.
[1:03:17] My sense would be somebody needs to take a look to see which
[1:03:22] of these seven are already existing
[1:03:26] in current regulation somewhere
[1:03:31] And get them out of this
[1:03:34] and which ones are business practices,
[1:03:38] which we may or may not want to be involved with.
[1:03:42] I think lastly, I'll just say to you
[1:03:45] that I'm a bit concerned about the enforcement
[1:03:49] of these seven.
[1:03:51] 'em Certainly selling to minors is something
[1:03:56] that our police staff is, is fully equipped to deal with
[1:04:01] and deals with, with every liquor license
[1:04:03] in Ferguson Township.
[1:04:05] However, some of these other things in terms
[1:04:08] of violations do we send a Zoning officer,
[1:04:11] do we send the police department?
[1:04:14] Who do we send under what circumstances in terms
[1:04:18] of enforcing some of this stuff?
[1:04:20] I think that needs to be thought through a little better.
[1:04:23] And maybe some of these won't be part of our resolution,
[1:04:28] but rather because they're,
[1:04:30] they're already codified somewhere else.
[1:04:32] We can, we can overlook them,
[1:04:35] not overlook them from the sense of ignoring them,
[1:04:39] but say they're somewhere else.
[1:04:42] That's all I have.
[1:04:45] - Thank you, Mr. Keel. Any other Public Comment?
[1:04:49] Just taking a look here. Oh, yes, please feel free.
[1:04:53] Step forward, state your name and neighborhood or residence.
[1:05:05] - Hi, I'm Deb Escot and I'm from Patton Township.
[1:05:09] I work for the Spring Creek Watershed Commission.
[1:05:12] And I just want to mention about the, the cleanup,
[1:05:15] the 30th annual cleanup.
[1:05:17] Oh. And so we appreciate eight Ferguson's Township Health.
[1:05:21] There's about 750 volunteers that have signed up for
[1:05:24] that now, so it'll be the
[1:05:26] 18th of April. That's what I wanted to mention.
[1:05:29] - Alright. Yeah. Thank, thank you very much.
[1:05:31] We had done the proclamations earlier
[1:05:33] and we did put in a good work for some
[1:05:36] of us are even got involved here on that.
[1:05:38] - Okay. Thank you. Thank
[1:05:39] - You.
[1:05:40] Appreciate it. Thank you. Alright.
[1:05:45] Any other feedback?
[1:05:46] I, I was gonna say, you're just taking feedback on the li
[1:05:49] the liquor item here
[1:05:51] - And, and some direction in terms of coming back
[1:05:55] with a draft private agreement,
[1:05:59] I think would be our next step we could do is I,
[1:06:04] I heard one, some part, do a copy and paste
[1:06:07] and work with the solicitor
[1:06:09] and come up with a, come up with a draft agreement.
[1:06:15] We could, you know, and also keeping in mind
[1:06:20] that these, you know, it'd be good
[1:06:22] to know which conditions are essential that we would apply
[1:06:25] to anybody that's gonna ask for a, a liquor license
[1:06:29] transfer from another municipality.
[1:06:31] Or for example, I believe what would be one would be very
[1:06:35] critical is that before any license would be transferred
[1:06:39] to another location within Ferguson Township,
[1:06:41] that it would require for it to come back
[1:06:43] before this board to request that instead of just being able
[1:06:48] to move it wherever they want it.
[1:06:50] Obviously within Zoning regulations, I think that's critical
[1:06:55] that you should have a chance to say,
[1:06:57] to approve it being moved to another location.
[1:06:59] And that's one of the current conditions.
[1:07:03] - Hmm. Mr. Halla,
[1:07:05] - Let me ask a broader question.
[1:07:08] Do other municipalities charge fees for that?
[1:07:13] - Yes. Well there's, there is a, when you go
[1:07:17] for inter inter municipal transfer, you do pay a fee
[1:07:21] to the municipality to process
[1:07:22] everything about the application.
[1:07:24] - What's our fee? - I thought you were gonna ask that.
[1:07:28] - I'm sorry. I, I, yeah.
[1:07:31] You see where I'm going with this threat? I do,
[1:07:33] - Yes. Now
[1:07:35] - Agree.
[1:07:36] It's $1,000.
[1:07:37] - 1000. Okay. Boroughs was 1500 I or is a thousand. Okay.
[1:07:40] - It, do we know if that's capped by state or federal law.
[1:07:44] - The, the fee has to be commensurate
[1:07:46] with the work involved in it.
[1:07:48] So you can't, you can't make something
[1:07:50] that you don't have any justification.
[1:07:52] I see. For, so, you know, I think it's based on workload
[1:07:55] to really process the application.
[1:07:59] So, you know, that's a thousand dollars certainly is within
[1:08:03] reason of what I'm, I'm used to, but there is a fee.
[1:08:07] - Okay. But again, the fee is related
[1:08:08] to the work that goes behind it.
[1:08:10] So you're getting reimbursed for that work.
[1:08:13] Do other municipalities do anything different?
[1:08:15] Do we, have we heard of
[1:08:16] - Anything?
[1:08:17] I know what the Borough does
[1:08:18] and the, you know, their original fee was years ago when we
[1:08:20] first started doing these was a thousand,
[1:08:22] but it's now gone up to $1,500 is the transfer fee.
[1:08:28] But I'm not aware. I can find out. I thank you.
[1:08:31] I'm having a manager's meeting tomorrow
[1:08:33] so I can find out tomorrow. Okay.
[1:08:34] - I'd also be curious to know if any other municipalities
[1:08:38] do anything like a percentage of liquor sales as part
[1:08:42] of a condition for being able
[1:08:44] to sell in their, in their Township.
[1:08:47] - Yeah, we do,
[1:08:51] but I, I know that one of the conditions
[1:08:54] we used in the Borough for probably maybe different reasons
[1:08:58] than in the Township is we had a, a food to alcohol ratio.
[1:09:02] So you had to, you had to have a facility
[1:09:04] that's sold at least 60% food compared to 40%.
[1:09:09] Alcohol was one of the conditions.
[1:09:13] I didn't, that's not a condition
[1:09:14] that was put in this liquor license transfer,
[1:09:19] - But, and I was thinking something even more plainly.
[1:09:22] 5% of all liquor sales goes to municipality.
[1:09:26] Nothing. No.
[1:09:28] - And I, I believe would be prohibitive.
[1:09:31] That's what I'm wondering. Yeah.
[1:09:32] We'd be prohibited from doing that.
[1:09:34] That was an item that came last month with the work that
[1:09:40] Mike Negro is doing to try to get to
[1:09:42] where we can get legislation to do that. Perfect.
[1:09:45] - Thank you for again, the public conversation on that.
[1:09:48] But I appreciate it. Yeah.
[1:09:50] Again, a little more information on what the,
[1:09:52] the cost would be for the, to actually do the work.
[1:09:56] But other than that, I have no, no issues or question.
[1:09:59] - Mr. Patterson, - What's the need for this timeline?
[1:10:05] - I think within the next one to two months, you know,
[1:10:09] ru rudders is still at early stages of their construction.
[1:10:13] So this, you know, I know they would want to have it
[1:10:16] by the time they do their opening.
[1:10:18] So when I talked to the general counsel for PLCB,
[1:10:23] they didn't give a timeframe,
[1:10:25] but I think I, I would wanna bring it back,
[1:10:27] you know, keep it moving.
[1:10:29] Yeah.
[1:10:31] - So I, I guess what you need is maybe a couple of motions.
[1:10:35] Number one, direction to repeal
[1:10:37] and replace the resolution without conditions.
[1:10:40] And number two, direction to create a private agreement
[1:10:45] with all
[1:10:46] or some, some subsection of appropriate conditions
[1:10:50] with, with the organization, road organization.
[1:10:54] - Right. And I think we could do the, the repeal
[1:10:56] and replace when we bring the new, we could repeal it
[1:10:59] and at the same time replace with a new resolution.
[1:11:02] And I'm okay with just get,
[1:11:04] unless someone wants to make a motion
[1:11:05] and make it very clear, as long as
[1:11:08] that gets consensus on what direction to go.
[1:11:10] I don't know that we need any official motion
[1:11:12] unless the Supervisors prefer
[1:11:14] to have something on record with a motion.
[1:11:20] - I'm definitely, let's get it clear.
[1:11:22] - Yeah. Want some clarity. You have something teed up or,
[1:11:27] - I actually don't, the mo I
[1:11:29] can, I can make the first motion.
[1:11:31] That's not the second one I know.
[1:11:33] So I move to direct staff to repeal
[1:11:35] and replace the resolution without conditions.
[1:11:39] - Do we have second, - This is Trevor. I'll second
[1:11:42] - Got a motion by Mr.
[1:11:43] Patterson, seconded by Mr. White.
[1:11:45] Any discussion on that? Yes, Mr. Hall. But
[1:11:49] - Then does that negate if we repeal
[1:11:53] and replace, if we just get rid of it, then it just goes
[1:11:56] through the PLCB and we're done.
[1:11:59] - That's what they need. - So,
[1:12:00] so you're saying just do away
[1:12:02] with all the conditions and we're done. Yeah,
[1:12:04] - We motions.
[1:12:05] There's the second one. Second one is the private agreement.
[1:12:08] - Right. - So I wanted to make it clear
[1:12:10] to do there's two actions.
[1:12:11] Yeah. We can have one motion, two actions.
[1:12:13] I was just for like Yeah.
[1:12:17] The two motions, two actions
[1:12:18] and then they can move in parallel.
[1:12:20] - And the this motion is to repeal
[1:12:25] and replace the thing that repeal the thing
[1:12:28] that has all the conditions
[1:12:29] and replace it with a thing
[1:12:30] that doesn't have any conditions, correct?
[1:12:32] No, it's, so if we were to say that's it, full stop,
[1:12:35] then it would go through the PLCB.
[1:12:37] Right? We could just say we're done.
[1:12:38] - That's right. - But then we're gonna put an extra
[1:12:41] condition, an extra motion that says come back
[1:12:43] with something with a private agreement, which
[1:12:46] - Could be yes or no.
[1:12:47] I mean it's, but it doesn't involve the plc. Yeah.
[1:12:49] - Right. That's just between Rogers and
[1:12:52] - I'm saying Township, but I'm the first motion,
[1:12:55] if we stop right there, then it's done and it's approved.
[1:13:00] Okay. I mean, I, I get it. It just seems like
[1:13:03] - There's - A window between the two motions
[1:13:05] that you could, somebody could say, Hey, wait a second.
[1:13:08] You know, you just approved it.
[1:13:10] That automatically kicks something off.
[1:13:12] - It's not approved until it's approved the res
[1:13:14] until the real repeal in place actually happens.
[1:13:16] It hasn't happened. We're voting right now. Right.
[1:13:18] To move forward on that action. Yeah.
[1:13:20] And then there, what I've proposed is two actions
[1:13:23] that'll come back to us later. Right.
[1:13:26] - And, okay. Yeah. And, and Mr.
[1:13:28] Patterson's defense, this first motion will have
[1:13:30] to come back to the board
[1:13:32] because just by us, you know, basically.
[1:13:37] Yeah. Basically this is to direct staff to initiate the real
[1:13:42] repeal and replace process, which would have to come back
[1:13:45] to the board because I,
[1:13:47] I think thinking there might even have
[1:13:48] to be a Public Hearing.
[1:13:50] And I know we do the Roll Call vote.
[1:13:52] So I'll, I'll defer to you.
[1:13:55] I I I think this was probably
[1:13:56] what you were gonna tell me anyhow. Well,
[1:13:59] - We are required to do one Public Hearing.
[1:14:00] Of course you've had a Public Hearing.
[1:14:02] So the question is whether you need to do another one
[1:14:04] and you can consult the solicitor about that
[1:14:06] and might be wise to do
[1:14:07] that just since you're gonna be adopting a new resolution.
[1:14:12] Timing wise, I think, you know, if the motion is
[1:14:16] to direct staff to work towards repealing the old resolution
[1:14:21] and preparing a new resolution as well
[1:14:23] as work towards a private agreement, that would be fine.
[1:14:26] I, I don't wanna repeal anything
[1:14:28] that we currently have sitting down at PLCB,
[1:14:31] even though they can't, won't adopt it as is.
[1:14:34] I want that to be on record until we are ready
[1:14:37] to adopt something new.
[1:14:40] 'cause they're gonna hold taking any action
[1:14:42] until we send them something different.
[1:14:44] 'cause they don't know whether you wanna approve
[1:14:45] it or deny it right now.
[1:14:48] So I would, I would hold off actually
[1:14:52] repealing the resolution tonight,
[1:14:54] but directing me to work, to bringing something back
[1:14:59] that would repeal and replace.
[1:15:02] - That's the motion. If - That's the motion that,
[1:15:04] - That is the motion to - Bring. Yeah. Direct staff.
[1:15:07] - So direct staff to,
[1:15:08] and I, I'll add one word to initiate the repeal
[1:15:12] and replace of the resolution without conditions.
[1:15:16] So it's bring back the new one without conditions,
[1:15:19] we'll be repeal and replace same time.
[1:15:20] Right. Send the new one to PLCB. Yep.
[1:15:23] So that process will move forward.
[1:15:27] - That I'm good. Now that makes okay. Yeah. Yes. Perfect.
[1:15:31] - The way. Yeah. And the way I see it,
[1:15:33] staff's gonna revise the resolution
[1:15:36] and then when we vote on it in a upcoming meeting,
[1:15:40] we're replacing repealing, we're repealing
[1:15:43] and replacing at that moment in time.
[1:15:46] - And I would recommend that
[1:15:47] before we, we, you vote
[1:15:52] to replace a resolution
[1:15:54] that we already have a private agreement in place
[1:15:57] so you know that it exists
[1:15:59] before you're okay with saying to PLCB, we approve this.
[1:16:03] - Okay. - And that the gap.
[1:16:07] - Alright. So Mr.
[1:16:10] Patterson had modified the motion, your
[1:16:15] consent on the modified motion Mr. White has not changed.
[1:16:20] Okay. Any other discussion on that motion?
[1:16:29] See Mr. Keo again.
[1:16:31] So I think we're,
[1:16:36] - I think what you're doing is a good way to,
[1:16:40] to, to travel with this.
[1:16:42] I just, for example, in terms of the second part
[1:16:46] of the motion, the private agreement, somebody needs
[1:16:50] to take a look at these seven.
[1:16:53] Not in terms of whether they're legal or not,
[1:16:55] but for example, number three,
[1:17:00] I work in an environment, in a sports arena where I have
[1:17:04] to take classes just because alcohol is served there.
[1:17:09] Oh, this is part of the alcohol
[1:17:13] license requirements in the state of Pennsylvania
[1:17:17] with regard to individuals who are working there, why we,
[1:17:21] why we would have, why we would have it as a separate thing.
[1:17:25] Just doesn't make a lot of sense.
[1:17:28] Somebody needs to take a look at what's already in existence
[1:17:33] in terms of regulations as opposed to trying
[1:17:36] to duplicate them in a agreement.
[1:17:38] But I think the route you're traveling is a good one.
[1:17:41] - I, yeah, I've kind of been making that point
[1:17:45] as we've discussed this.
[1:17:48] Interesting to know that the bouncer, he's the bouncer has
[1:17:52] to be trained in serving alcohol,
[1:17:54] but he does, he doesn't serve anyone alcohol.
[1:18:00] Alright. If there's no further discussion on Mr.
[1:18:03] Patterson's motion, all those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye.
[1:18:07] Aye. Any opposed? Say no. That motion passes.
[1:18:11] Any anyone wanna bring forward a motion
[1:18:13] on the private agreement?
[1:18:16] - Aye, before I do that, is there any, are any of these,
[1:18:19] does anybody feel strongly about any of these?
[1:18:21] Eight, seven? I'll start by number four.
[1:18:26] Makes sense to me.
[1:18:30] - I'll just say I see value,
[1:18:32] I see some value in redundancies.
[1:18:35] I mean, especially if they're already there, you know,
[1:18:37] taking them out, going back like I,
[1:18:39] the value in redundancies
[1:18:41] to me is establishing a track record
[1:18:43] and establishing a paper trail.
[1:18:45] Like this is what was agreed to here.
[1:18:47] This is what's agreed to at the state level.
[1:18:49] Like this is what you're required by the state.
[1:18:51] We're doing that as well.
[1:18:53] Like, it's not inherently like inefficient
[1:18:58] again, like we we're, maybe we will not need to refer back
[1:19:02] to this agreement at any point in the future.
[1:19:04] That's what we hope. But this agreement exists for a reason.
[1:19:08] - Let me pull that thread. Even if we do, what are we gonna
[1:19:10] - Do exactly? Like, but that's
[1:19:11] - Where, where are our teeth?
[1:19:13] Otherwise we filed a document that like, oh,
[1:19:15] magically like we, what can we do with it?
[1:19:19] But I should ask the chief
[1:19:20] and the manager like these things in here.
[1:19:23] Like, hey, thou show have, you know, security cameras like,
[1:19:27] you know, smoking and having people trained on alcohol.
[1:19:31] Like, does that do anything for you?
[1:19:33] Does that help you and give you teeth to do anything?
[1:19:39] Yeah, go ahead.
[1:19:41] - Yeah, I think, you know, some of those things,
[1:19:43] I mean we was brought up here,
[1:19:44] you you mentioned about why does the balancer have to be
[1:19:47] trained in serving alcohol
[1:19:48] because they're the people that are letting people
[1:19:50] into the establishment.
[1:19:52] Right? Or not. And they're trained
[1:19:54] and they're, they're asked to be trained so
[1:19:56] that they're not letting already intoxicated
[1:19:57] individuals into Yeah.
[1:19:58] Into the establishment.
[1:20:00] So that's why they get that kind of training,
[1:20:02] having all these things.
[1:20:04] I can speak also from, from my, my the borough's perspective
[1:20:08] a a little bit like I know Tom has,
[1:20:11] but having all these things and making sure they have it,
[1:20:13] certainly having cameras
[1:20:14] and things like that on the, on the premises,
[1:20:16] which I'm sure they will is helpful in investigations.
[1:20:20] Yeah. And, and things like that.
[1:20:21] It's also helpful in regards to when we have
[1:20:26] complaints of employee misconduct
[1:20:28] and things like that, that go to the police.
[1:20:30] Okay. From my experience with these,
[1:20:35] I was involved in a little bit of this with the Borough.
[1:20:37] Awful. A lot of these constraints were put on these liquor
[1:20:41] licenses because the Borough actually has more liquor
[1:20:44] licenses than they should.
[1:20:46] As per what?
[1:20:48] The LCB, you know
[1:20:52] what they say per number
[1:20:53] of people you should have liquor establishments.
[1:20:57] They have some kind of rule for that or whatnot.
[1:20:59] And the borough's way over that. 'cause there's a lot
[1:21:01] of liquor license that come into the Borough.
[1:21:03] So a lot of the constraints
[1:21:04] and stuff they were putting on those is things like,
[1:21:08] you're not allowed to operate a bottle shop
[1:21:10] off of it as well.
[1:21:11] You're not allowed to operate multiple businesses.
[1:21:15] There's the food, the food ratio that really has to do
[1:21:19] with making sure this,
[1:21:21] this establishment doesn't just become a bar
[1:21:25] that usually does cause us more problems than a,
[1:21:29] an establishment that serves food.
[1:21:32] So those are some of the things I looked
[1:21:34] at with within the Borough.
[1:21:35] I've not looked closely at exactly what all these,
[1:21:38] I mean I could look at it right now,
[1:21:39] but what all, all of these civil agreement, the seven,
[1:21:46] the, the yeah.
[1:21:47] The seven things that are on the civil agreement.
[1:21:50] But those are what that's kind of for, to kind of control,
[1:21:53] hey, this is an extra liquor license coming to within this
[1:21:56] Township and make sure that it's handled properly and,
[1:22:01] and that it, it doesn't become a bar
[1:22:03] or something like that, that is going
[1:22:05] to cause a lot more police services.
[1:22:08] 'cause that's typically what happens. Yeah.
[1:22:12] Is that somewhat helpful?
[1:22:15] - Yes. Yes.
[1:22:16] More, more helpful would be yes,
[1:22:19] these seven will help me or no, they won't.
[1:22:21] 'cause I, I think that's, that's really what this is about
[1:22:24] is can the staff of this Township like
[1:22:29] execute the work of the Township?
[1:22:31] Is this gonna be helpful in our work?
[1:22:33] And so the cameras absolutely. And that's number four.
[1:22:37] And that's the one that I said I actually do feel strongly
[1:22:39] about that should be in here.
[1:22:41] But you know, one of 'em, gosh, I lost my page.
[1:22:45] Oh here, it's one of 'em was,
[1:22:48] owner must ensure accountability of financial transactions
[1:22:51] to mitigate occurrence of identity theft
[1:22:54] and credit card for all that kind of ties into the cameras.
[1:22:58] You know, if somebody's over there, you know,
[1:22:59] taking pictures of credit cards underneath the,
[1:23:02] the register cameras would probably catch that.
[1:23:04] And so do we really need that? Correct. Okay.
[1:23:08] - I will just say, I, I don't know how familiar you are
[1:23:11] with it and I don't know how familiar our,
[1:23:14] our like regional police are familiar with it,
[1:23:17] but like, you know, card duplicating technologies
[1:23:20] and like, you know, I I,
[1:23:23] this is gonna sound like I'm getting into the nitty gritty
[1:23:25] real quick, but like, just as a an example,
[1:23:27] but like, are those cameras of high enough resolution
[1:23:29] to detect somebody putting a,
[1:23:31] a car duplicating machine on the, you know,
[1:23:34] on the gas pump for example?
[1:23:35] Right. And I like, I can kind of see where you're going
[1:23:40] with it, but again, I just feel like, well this,
[1:23:43] this says y'all were responsible
[1:23:44] for making sure that didn't happen.
[1:23:46] - No. But even in your example,
[1:23:48] number one doesn't account for that.
[1:23:49] It says the owner must ensure,
[1:23:51] - Oh, employee account, - Employee accountability.
[1:23:53] Well then not the accountability of somebody driving up
[1:23:55] and putting a duplicator in there. Yep.
[1:23:57] - See employee, - It's been,
[1:24:01] especially working for a, for formerly working
[1:24:06] for a large box retailer that did have a
[1:24:09] data breach of credit cards.
[1:24:11] Like a lot of companies now have put in a lot
[1:24:14] of internal protocols to ensure those protections.
[1:24:19] Yeah. And I'll leave that at that.
[1:24:25] Either Mr. Heller or Mr. King.
[1:24:28] - I was just gonna see if I could float to motion. Yeah.
[1:24:32] One word in here that I think folks might be happy with,
[1:24:34] but I don't know Mr. King.
[1:24:38] - Well, we can always defer back to, I was
[1:24:39] - Just gonna just rec suggest that I could come back
[1:24:43] to the board with a recommendation on conditions
[1:24:48] that we ought to consider putting on using these conditions
[1:24:52] and look at them, check
[1:24:53] and find out what exactly is enforceable,
[1:24:57] who would force it, similar to what Mr.
[1:24:59] Keo has suggested.
[1:25:01] Find out what's most important for the Township to have
[1:25:03] and for they, it's not critical.
[1:25:05] Maybe take it off. Maybe there's something on here
[1:25:07] that we didn't include that would be good to include
[1:25:10] and discuss those with the solicitor
[1:25:12] and come back specifically with a recommendation
[1:25:15] of let's include these X number
[1:25:19] of conditions Yeah.
[1:25:21] And then use that as a baseline moving forward.
[1:25:24] - I I'm not in favor of that.
[1:25:26] I, I, sorry, I'm in favor of half of that. Okay.
[1:25:29] The first half is like we should I,
[1:25:32] well no, actually I'm not in favor of any of it.
[1:25:34] And here's why. Number one,
[1:25:36] we should just make a decision on what we want
[1:25:38] and say, Mr. King, here's what we want.
[1:25:40] Period. And staff can get it done of the seven.
[1:25:43] And if you feel like there's something else
[1:25:45] that I can guess part that I agree with, if there,
[1:25:47] if you see something else, let's,
[1:25:48] but I'm also not in favor of like renegotiating
[1:25:51] with rudders, but if RUS has something that they're like,
[1:25:54] oh yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll do that, we're doing that anyway
[1:25:55] and we can put it in fine.
[1:25:59] So I, I just don't,
[1:26:00] I don't wanna come back for the sake coming back.
[1:26:02] I wanna just like, here's what we think.
[1:26:03] There's seven that we already, we already approved a year,
[1:26:05] you know, a year ago, six months ago,
[1:26:08] let's just get to the end here.
[1:26:09] And, and whether it's all seven
[1:26:13] or just the subset, that's where I was going was,
[1:26:15] is there a subset that we feel strongly about?
[1:26:17] Let's go with that. Otherwise.
[1:26:22] - So I was gonna say I was in favor of
[1:26:24] what manager King had said, but I, I do get Mr.
[1:26:28] Patterson's point. This has already kind of been agreed
[1:26:31] to upon rudders,
[1:26:32] but think thinking forward,
[1:26:35] like we did say there's like another pro,
[1:26:37] possibly another establishment in the Township
[1:26:40] that nearby there.
[1:26:43] And I, I got to thinking,
[1:26:44] I don't even know if we've even talked about Wawa.
[1:26:47] You know, I imagine they're gonna have a liquor license,
[1:26:50] you know, so just something to kinda like
[1:26:53] shape things forward would be nice
[1:26:56] to maybe explore while we're at it.
[1:27:00] But yeah, that was my take on that. Mr.
[1:27:03] Heller. With all that said,
[1:27:05] - I, I have two flavors of motions here
[1:27:07] and I don't know if I need to flip a coin at this point,
[1:27:09] but I'll revert back
[1:27:10] to the original and just start with this one.
[1:27:13] I move that the board of Supervisors, direct staff
[1:27:15] to develop a proposal of new conditions of the license
[1:27:19] with rudders that are not redundant
[1:27:21] to currently existing federal, state or local regulations,
[1:27:25] but rather act in the best interest
[1:27:27] and safety of the community as discussed this evening.
[1:27:32] - Anyone wanna second that one? This is Trevor. I'll second.
[1:27:35] Okay. So got motion by Mr. Heller.
[1:27:39] Seconded by Mr. White discussion.
[1:27:49] - I, I don't, I don't agree with a new set.
[1:27:52] I think that's, yeah, I think
[1:27:53] that's the words I was going on,
[1:27:55] but it's the new set that don't do a thing.
[1:27:58] This is already negotiated.
[1:27:59] So if you're willing to maybe go with like proposal,
[1:28:04] figuring out which of these seven don't con conflict with
[1:28:08] already existing federal, state, local, then I think that,
[1:28:10] that you've got a, you've got a winner there. So
[1:28:13] - If I just remove the word new
[1:28:14] and just say proposal of conditions of the license
[1:28:17] that are not redundant to currently existing federal, state
[1:28:21] or local regulations, but rather act in the best interest
[1:28:24] and safety of the community as discussed this evening.
[1:28:28] - Use the word that
[1:28:30] - The only problem is we don't, like,
[1:28:34] we got five people here in this space right now.
[1:28:38] And so we need, we either need to pick the ones
[1:28:40] that are like, yep, duh, and move on.
[1:28:43] Or like, we're gonna waste time, I think.
[1:28:46] 'cause then we're gonna get back here, you know,
[1:28:48] a month later, two weeks later we're gonna look at it again.
[1:28:51] Like, oh, I don't like that one. Gotta bring it back.
[1:28:53] Or, you know, like, like that's where this
[1:28:57] - Was a five minute discussion. No, but yes.
[1:29:00] - Yeah, - So exactly.
[1:29:03] - I'm good with shoot it down and we can go through these
[1:29:06] and just, you know, line 'em out.
[1:29:07] I'm, I'm fine with that too. Really.
[1:29:10] - So, so did you modify your motion?
[1:29:14] - No, because it was gonna get shot down. Okay. Okay.
[1:29:16] Either way. So let's shoot this one down
[1:29:21] and then move on.
[1:29:24] - So call, call it Or you you want to?
[1:29:26] I, I, I'm trying to think.
[1:29:27] You could probably even withdraw. Draw the motion.
[1:29:29] - I withdraw the motion. Okay. That was easy.
[1:29:33] - Well, do we have a new motion?
[1:29:35] - No. No.
[1:29:36] - Okay. So much for repeal and replaced.
[1:29:40] - Okay, so I said number four is one that's like, yes.
[1:29:44] Let's do that. Does anybody else have one of those seven
[1:29:48] that we wanna, that we feel strongly about that needs
[1:29:50] to go into some sort of private agreement?
[1:29:54] - I'm gonna go back to what Tom had said earlier is
[1:29:57] that it's about consistency.
[1:29:59] So some of the things that were in there,
[1:30:01] not everything is gonna be a gas station.
[1:30:02] So maybe we do want the no smoking sign. Do you know what I
[1:30:05] - Mean?
[1:30:06] - Yeah. So I would just say, let's, let's staff do it
[1:30:10] the way that Tom had suggested
[1:30:11] - A gas station without a no smoking sign. But not
[1:30:14] - Every liquor license is going to a gas station.
[1:30:16] So this is consistency from across the
[1:30:18] - Board, right? If I may.
[1:30:20] - So that's why Giant has all the seats in there
[1:30:23] because they have to, to be classified as a restaurant.
[1:30:28] Like this is all like, and this is why the,
[1:30:29] the gas stations have the ceases.
[1:30:31] 'cause this is a restaurant liquor license
[1:30:33] - Seats. Yeah.
[1:30:33] - Yeah. So like not every, they're classified differently.
[1:30:36] So I actually do think to your point,
[1:30:38] like you're absolutely right.
[1:30:39] There are, I was there for, for this meeting, Mr. Keo.
[1:30:42] And yes, this resulted in me doing a, an in-depth analysis
[1:30:47] and in that in-depth analysis,
[1:30:49] there are four different types of establishments
[1:30:52] that have restaurants, liquor licenses here
[1:30:55] and it's gas stations, restaurants, grocery stores,
[1:30:59] and then things that have turned into bars.
[1:31:02] Those are the four. And so I do think
[1:31:04] for consistency's sake,
[1:31:05] like this is actually kind of important.
[1:31:07] - I move to take the conditions from the document,
[1:31:12] put 'em in a private agreement and work with RU
[1:31:15] and get it official with the RU
[1:31:20] - Second pat. Oh, sorry
[1:31:22] - With that.
[1:31:23] - No, no, that's fine. Not seconded.
[1:31:25] - Got a motion by Mr. Patterson. Second by Mr. Heller.
[1:31:28] Any discussion on that one?
[1:31:31] - Yes, - Mr.
[1:31:32] - Can we track this onto our fee? This discussion?
[1:31:34] This is staff time.
[1:31:37] - I'm gonna start charging.
[1:31:38] - That's, that's what I'm saying. Thousand dollars.
[1:31:41] - You guys are killing me - Up to seven.
[1:31:46] - Alright. Any other discussion on that?
[1:31:50] Since, since this went over five minutes.
[1:31:53] Does that mean it was fluid?
[1:31:55] - Go with dynamic. - Dynamic? Okay. Motion on the table.
[1:31:59] All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Say no.
[1:32:04] Right. Does anyone have anything else?
[1:32:08] - Negative. - Thank
[1:32:09] - You.
[1:32:10] We've given Mr. King enough work.
[1:32:12] - This is easy. - Yeah. Cut Past, past.
[1:32:18] - All right, - Sounds like
[1:32:19] - Consent manager getting here.
[1:32:20] - Yeah. Moving on to new business.
[1:32:24] We have three items on the Consent Agenda tonight.
[1:32:27] One of them being a donation request
[1:32:28] for a soldier's hand walk to remember our fallen
[1:32:31] a donation request for the community diversity group
[1:32:34] and a request for surety release for Laron storage facility
[1:32:39] other than item B.
[1:32:41] Did anyone want to pull items A or c?
[1:32:44] - I would like to pull item A as well. Okay.
[1:32:46] - We will just go by these one by one tonight.
[1:32:48] Donation requests the soldier's hand walk
[1:32:50] to remember our fallen Mr. Heller.
[1:32:53] - I'm good with the two donation requests. I'll lump in.
[1:32:56] I just need to know where, where's our balance of the $5,000
[1:32:58] that we had allocated,
[1:33:01] - There's actually $6,000 and there's $4,000 remaining.
[1:33:05] Oh, okay. 'cause the, the one was part of the community
[1:33:10] or economic development.
[1:33:14] - Thank you. So for me, $1,300 being requested tonight
[1:33:17] for both of these motions.
[1:33:18] That's what I needed to hear. That was my only question.
[1:33:20] The reason for pulling them, so thank you.
[1:33:22] - Okay, - Well on item A that
[1:33:28] I guess it, it looked like it was helping out
[1:33:31] or was item B, which, which one was helping out the,
[1:33:34] like overseas or something?
[1:33:36] A Oh, that's a, that's item A.
[1:33:39] So I think the intent of those dollars were local.
[1:33:42] So like when we do the flags in the, in the, at the, at the,
[1:33:47] this was for our walks Cemetery.
[1:33:49] The cemetery. Yeah.
[1:33:52] But somewhere in there it says like,
[1:33:53] the dollars will be used for the, yeah, the USSA Abraham.
[1:33:57] - Well I think that's their mission.
[1:34:00] But this was for the walk as, as I read it, it was
[1:34:05] to fund their walk before the, the bosberg
[1:34:07] to kick off the burg Memorial Day.
[1:34:09] Mm. It was to help defra the cost so
[1:34:12] that all their money can then I, yeah,
[1:34:16] I think it's, it's local.
[1:34:17] It's for a walk down in Bosberg.
[1:34:20] - Basically we help with financial facilitation
[1:34:22] of the event here
[1:34:24] and then what proceeds they raise from the event
[1:34:28] are then for that other thing.
[1:34:34] - Huh?
[1:34:40] - So, so at this event, this walk, there's,
[1:34:44] I guess folks are raising money
[1:34:46] to then go and do some other stuff.
[1:34:49] - Kinda like a 5K registration fee.
[1:34:51] I, I would imagine, you know, like that's how,
[1:34:53] like all the five Ks or whatever that I,
[1:34:55] - Yeah.
[1:34:56] Have we funded things like this in the past? Past?
[1:34:57] I feel like the things that we've funded, there's no like
[1:35:01] raising more money to go put more money somewhere else.
[1:35:04] It's almost like, I'm just thinking about the two things
[1:35:08] last, last meeting.
[1:35:09] It was, there's a thing they're putting
[1:35:11] on an event for the people.
[1:35:12] We're not raising more dollars at that event.
[1:35:14] It's, it's for that event.
[1:35:16] The senior center, Hey, we've got some money.
[1:35:18] We're gonna do these things with the seniors.
[1:35:20] It's for the seniors at this place.
[1:35:22] They're not like, Hey seniors, give us more money so
[1:35:24] that we can go do another thing.
[1:35:26] This seems a little bit, this is, it seems like a horse
[1:35:29] of a different color to me,
[1:35:30] but I I I hope somebody can clarify
[1:35:32] for me what this is doing.
[1:35:36] 'cause it's not a singularly focused in the area
[1:35:39] for the people of Ferguson.
[1:35:41] It's doing something else that's raising more
[1:35:42] money for another thing.
[1:35:44] And I, I'm not sure I'm in agreeance with that over
[1:35:48] - Just gonna say, I imagine it's even kind of maybe similar
[1:35:51] to like PML, you get a corporate sponsor
[1:35:56] that buys like the handbags
[1:35:58] that they give you when you attend a conference.
[1:36:00] And, but again, yeah.
[1:36:05] Not to complicate it further, maybe with Manager King can
[1:36:09] in enlighten us on something.
[1:36:11] - Well, I can just share what's on the application.
[1:36:13] The application was to bring families together in burg
[1:36:17] for this walk
[1:36:19] and the description of how the funds in condemn donations
[1:36:22] or resources would be used.
[1:36:23] It's helped to defray the cost of this event.
[1:36:25] Proceeds, proceeds over the expenses, help
[1:36:28] with our everyday mission of our active military veteran
[1:36:33] Gold star families, patriotic awareness
[1:36:36] and the Pennsylvania Guard.
[1:36:38] I think it's to help defray the cost of the event
[1:36:41] - Right - At, at in bosberg over Memorial Day.
[1:36:46] - Like did they need to like, put down money
[1:36:49] to use the event space?
[1:36:51] Are they maybe like getting like tents or even like food
[1:36:55] or water for the participants?
[1:37:00] - I would say it's three miles long at least.
[1:37:01] So that's, you know, you're gonna have probably,
[1:37:03] I would imagine at least one water station.
[1:37:05] So you probably have some volunteers like
[1:37:07] yeah, like all that stuff. But like
[1:37:09] - I'm just seeing those kind of things.
[1:37:11] - Yeah, I I I hear where you're coming from.
[1:37:13] Supervisor Patterson.
[1:37:14] I I, but I would say like the difference
[1:37:17] between an event like this that is also like raising funds
[1:37:20] and any other event is that eventually like that event
[1:37:25] like, so we, we can take like any kind of panel
[1:37:27] or whatever, even if that panel is not immediately raising
[1:37:30] funds there after receiving a donation request,
[1:37:34] like they would still be getting a larger platform
[1:37:37] to eventually raise funds.
[1:37:38] And so I just see this as like maybe like one degree remove
[1:37:41] from like what nonprofits due.
[1:37:45] And so I, I don't really see any,
[1:37:47] any big issue with, with this.
[1:37:50] But that's just me.
[1:37:53] - And, and let me be clear with two vets sitting on this,
[1:37:56] this table or more, I apologize,
[1:37:58] I don't know everybody else's military
[1:37:59] background, but thank you.
[1:38:00] Thank everybody. But the third page,
[1:38:03] it says The soldier hand is a nonprofit
[1:38:04] that serves entire deployed units.
[1:38:06] Currently we're working on USS Gerald Ford,
[1:38:09] USSA Ram Lincoln both deployed to the Middle East.
[1:38:11] They're think of Epic Fury.
[1:38:13] This represents approximately 9,500 troops.
[1:38:15] So there's again, this other thing
[1:38:18] that's happening elsewhere.
[1:38:19] So if this wasn't here, I have zero questions about a walk
[1:38:24] in Boberg that likely Ferguson residents are gonna go
[1:38:27] to and, and enjoy.
[1:38:30] But this page is here
[1:38:31] and so I can't overlook the fact
[1:38:34] that there's this other thing happening elsewhere
[1:38:37] that isn't a direct Ferguson Township thing.
[1:38:40] And so that's where my item
[1:38:42] - Yeah.
[1:38:44] And if I may, I believe the author
[1:38:45] of this is really just trying to show you the breadth
[1:38:47] of the organization
[1:38:50] and felt that I, not to put myself in, not
[1:38:54] to put my words in her mouth,
[1:38:56] but felt that this was probably just describing the
[1:38:59] scope of the organization.
[1:39:00] Give you a sense of what else they do
[1:39:02] besides this thing that they are doing
[1:39:03] and hoping to get funding for in burg.
[1:39:05] So I have had personal interactions with,
[1:39:10] with Trish, I've met her at a couple events here.
[1:39:13] So I know that they are active in the community
[1:39:16] and I will say they're also
[1:39:17] well-respected within the community.
[1:39:23] - And I do see something else there that says like,
[1:39:24] oh please write a note from home
[1:39:25] that will be sent to a deployed troop.
[1:39:27] So like this also does help to, yeah. Yeah.
[1:39:30] I dunno, there's a lot that the local
[1:39:33] we'll say like residents can do to support this.
[1:39:35] And so it basically acts as like a, a bridge
[1:39:38] and I dunno, I feel like this is kind of in the spirit of
[1:39:42] community building Community.
[1:39:44] - Yeah. I, yeah.
[1:39:46] And I also note on this last page, the more they get
[1:39:51] of sponsors, grants
[1:39:52] and donations, it appears the less of
[1:39:57] if there is a registration, the less
[1:39:59] of those registration dollars going into the expenses
[1:40:02] and more going to the
[1:40:06] troops that are deployed. So yeah.
[1:40:09] - Think it gets very redundant.
[1:40:10] Eating Pop-Tart peanut butter jelly
[1:40:11] sandwiches on a, on a ship.
[1:40:13] So those care packages would be,
[1:40:15] - Yeah. Appreciated.
[1:40:17] - It's true. It's - So true. Yes.
[1:40:24] - Also, there's gonna be bagpipes, which is pretty cool.
[1:40:26] - Oh my goodness. I like when the bagpipes fly.
[1:40:32] Any further discussion on this? Everyone good?
[1:40:37] Did I get a motion to move this forward
[1:40:41] - Mrs.
[1:40:42] Patty Motion to approve this donation request.
[1:40:45] - Second. Okay. Got a motion by Ms. Stephens, second by Mr.
[1:40:48] Patterson. One last call for discussion. Seeing none.
[1:40:51] All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Say no.
[1:40:56] Next step will be a donation request
[1:40:58] for the community diversity group.
[1:41:01] Your supervisor Stephens is going
[1:41:03] to, oh, what was the word?
[1:41:07] - I'm going to abstain from voting on
[1:41:08] - This one.
[1:41:09] She's abstaining from voting on this.
[1:41:10] So if nobody had anything they needed clarified on this,
[1:41:15] I'd take a motion to approve this item. Ms. Omari.
[1:41:17] - So moved. This is Matt second.
[1:41:19] - Okay, I got a motion by Mr. Patterson. Second by Mr.
[1:41:21] Heller. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed?
[1:41:25] Say no. Motion passes
[1:41:29] with Supervisor Stephens abstaining request
[1:41:33] for surety release for the LaCro storage facility.
[1:41:37] And I don't think anyone had anything for this,
[1:41:39] but if not, take a motion to approve this item.
[1:41:43] So moved. Okay. Do we have a second?
[1:41:45] - Second. - Okay. Got a motion by Mr. Patterson.
[1:41:47] Second by Mr. Heller. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye.
[1:41:50] Any opposed? Say no. Alright. Motion passes unanimously.
[1:41:57] - What to happen. Just, I just wanted to confirm.
[1:41:59] So we are now down to $2,700.
[1:42:03] Oh in, in the kitty. In the donation pot.
[1:42:07] In the donation pot. Saying that publicly $2,700. Got it.
[1:42:12] Thank you very much. After we pay, said Oh yeah, we got it.
[1:42:17] I love that for finance after we, it's not there
[1:42:20] yet. Thank you very
[1:42:22] - Much.
[1:42:23] It's like the money still in the account.
[1:42:24] - Just confirming. Thank you for that moment, Mr.
[1:42:27] - Chairman. Alright. Next we'll have a Public Hearing on a
[1:42:30] resolution in Township of Ferguson Centre County,
[1:42:32] Pennsylvania to accept a section
[1:42:33] of Dry Hollow Road from the Pendot Turnback program.
[1:42:37] And I'll recognize the manager,
[1:42:39] - The Pennsylvania Department
[1:42:40] of Transportation is seeking board approval for the turnback
[1:42:43] of 882 feet of roadway along Dry Hollow Road
[1:42:47] to Ferguson Township as part
[1:42:48] of their highway transfer Turnback program.
[1:42:51] The objective of the Turnback program is
[1:42:53] to transfer the ownership of the state owned roads
[1:42:56] to municipalities that are better suited to manage the road.
[1:42:59] This includes roads that have low average daily traffic.
[1:43:03] PennDOT provides full reimbursement for bringing the road
[1:43:06] to satisfactory condition
[1:43:07] and provides an annual maintenance payment per
[1:43:10] mile to the municipality.
[1:43:11] The 882 foot section of Dry Hollow Road to be turned back
[1:43:15] to the Township resulted from a survey update
[1:43:17] to the Ferguson Township Centre County
[1:43:20] and the Huntington County boundary.
[1:43:23] The Township has performed limited maintenance on this road
[1:43:26] historically, and it is not currently constructed
[1:43:28] to Township standards.
[1:43:29] The estimated cost to rehabilitate the road
[1:43:32] to the Township standards is attached.
[1:43:34] The cost for the rehabilitation
[1:43:36] to the Township will be reimbursed in full by Pendot prior
[1:43:40] to the transfer of the road.
[1:43:42] It's recommended that the board
[1:43:44] of Supervisors adopt the resolution to accept a section
[1:43:46] of Dry Hollow Road as part of the pen dot turnback program.
[1:43:54] - All right, this is a Public Hearing.
[1:43:56] Anyone in the audience wanted to address the board?
[1:44:00] Anyone online wanted to address the board? Alright.
[1:44:05] Public Hearing is now closed. Can I have a motion?
[1:44:10] - This is Matt. I move that the board
[1:44:11] of Supervisors adopt the resolution to accept a section
[1:44:14] of Dry Hollow Road as part of the Penn Dot Turnback program.
[1:44:18] - And do we have a second? - This is Trevor. I'll second
[1:44:22] - Got a motion by Mr.
[1:44:23] Heller, second by Mr. White. Any discussion
[1:44:31] if there is?
[1:44:33] Just wanted to reread this.
[1:44:35] The cost of rehabilitation
[1:44:37] of the Township will be reimbursed by full by Pendot.
[1:44:40] Okay. If there is no further discussion, all those in favor
[1:44:44] or actually I will defer to the manager.
[1:44:47] I think you need a Roll Call on this.
[1:44:48] - Yeah. Roll Call. Yes. Thank you.
[1:44:51] - No, I was gonna ask something
[1:44:52] real quick, but I don't know.
[1:44:54] I screw it. Payment per mile, but it's 882 feet.
[1:44:58] I imagine this isn't gonna be like a
[1:45:00] significant increase in our operational call.
[1:45:01] Yeah. Okay. I don't wanna We can, we can move on then The,
[1:45:07] - If I even heard from a resident, right?
[1:45:10] I think our folks even are driving on the road
[1:45:13] or turning around on the road now.
[1:45:14] So it's like, yeah. Yeah. Mr. Hallard,
[1:45:17] - I will say that this is a long time coming.
[1:45:19] I know some residents out on Dry Hollow Road
[1:45:22] that will be happy to kind of put this to bed
[1:45:24] because it's almost an ongoing joke about
[1:45:27] having this sign moved.
[1:45:28] I'm getting some nods here that this, this is a good thing
[1:45:33] and it goes back to the rural Roads proclamation earlier
[1:45:36] where I've heard cyclists
[1:45:38] and others having issues navigating that, especially
[1:45:40] with farm equipment, have the road parts
[1:45:43] of it are falling away into the woods too, so.
[1:45:45] Right. Yeah, it, it definitely needs this
[1:45:47] and I'm glad that PennDOT has this
[1:45:48] and that the cost will not be passed on to municipality.
[1:45:52] - It looked extremely narrow. - It's not
[1:45:55] - Good.
[1:45:56] Yeah,
[1:45:57] - That was it.
[1:45:58] Thank you. Okay.
[1:45:59] - Thank you. - There's nothing further.
[1:46:01] I'll recognize the Township manager to call the role
[1:46:04] - Chair. Thompson?
[1:46:05] - Yes. - Vice Chair Patterson? Yes. Ms. Stephens? Yes.
[1:46:10] Mr. Heller? Yes. Mr. White.
[1:46:13] - Yes. - Pass unanimously. Alright,
[1:46:16] - Thank you.
[1:46:17] Alright, we move on from the western end of the Township
[1:46:20] to the northeastern end of the Township
[1:46:22] for a discussion on the Blue Course Drive in Clinton Avenue
[1:46:24] Bike Path extension project.
[1:46:26] Now recognized manager,
[1:46:28] - Ferguson Township board of Supervisors accepted the final
[1:46:31] Northland Area Mobility study report at its regular meeting
[1:46:34] on May 6th, 2019.
[1:46:36] In coordination with Pennsylvania Department
[1:46:38] of Transportation, the center area,
[1:46:40] transpor Transportation Authority
[1:46:42] and the Centre Region Planning Agency.
[1:46:44] Ferguson Township conducted this study
[1:46:47] to identify potential improvements in the,
[1:46:49] the Northland area, which includes portions
[1:46:51] of the North Atherton Street,
[1:46:52] Martin Street Blue Course Drive, Clinton Avenue,
[1:46:55] cherry Lane, and Aaron Drive.
[1:46:57] Northland Mobility study resulted in 28 recommended
[1:47:00] improvements to the corridor to improve transportation
[1:47:03] classified into tiers one, two,
[1:47:05] and three, with one being the most important recommended
[1:47:09] actions one, two,
[1:47:10] and 15 refer to the extension
[1:47:12] of Blue Course Drive bike path from Martin Street
[1:47:16] Crossing Atherton and extending along Clinton Avenue.
[1:47:19] These items were classified as tier one
[1:47:21] and two projects in three sections.
[1:47:23] And RFP was issued in 2024.
[1:47:25] To begin a feasibility preliminary engineering study
[1:47:28] comprising of all three sections.
[1:47:31] This project includes the design right of way, utility
[1:47:35] and construction phases of improvements
[1:47:37] to construct a multi-use trail along Blue Course Drive from
[1:47:41] Circleville T Berry Lane to the terminus
[1:47:43] of Clinton Avenue at the McKees Street bike Trail
[1:47:47] in Overlook Heights.
[1:47:48] The project is described
[1:47:49] as a high priority project in the Northland
[1:47:52] area mobility study.
[1:47:54] Construction assumes grant funding such as TA grant
[1:47:57] or multimodal to advance the project
[1:48:00] cost related to the right of way.
[1:48:02] Utility and construction are unknown until preliminary
[1:48:06] engineering is completed.
[1:48:08] 2026 preliminary designed to pursue grant funding
[1:48:12] and then in 2028 final design permitting
[1:48:16] pending funding 2029 right away utilities pending funding
[1:48:19] and then 2030 construction pending funding.
[1:48:24] The board allocated funding for the project design in 2024
[1:48:28] and 2025, but was postponed
[1:48:30] until 2026 due to staff workload.
[1:48:33] Staff is requesting confirmation that the board wishes
[1:48:36] to proceed with the design phase of the bike path project
[1:48:40] following extensive delay and recent budget considerations.
[1:48:46] So we're asking if the board Supervisors authorize a design
[1:48:50] phase of the Blue Course Drive
[1:48:52] and Clint Avenue bike path extension
[1:49:02] - And we wanna - Make a motion
[1:49:03] or do we have questions? Miss
[1:49:05] - Steven?
[1:49:06] Oh, is a motion? There's supposed to be a motion.
[1:49:07] Oh no, it's just a discussion, right?
[1:49:09] Oh, well there well, sorry there now anyway.
[1:49:14] Oh yeah, this gives, oh this gives me such heartache to
[1:49:19] as this isn't I know
[1:49:21] - You are gonna break - My heart.
[1:49:22] I am going to break your heart. I'm so sorry. Alright.
[1:49:25] Because, and I, the reason that I was all about this and
[1:49:29] and going through with this is
[1:49:31] because particularly on Clinton Avenue, right there, there,
[1:49:34] there are no sidewalks.
[1:49:36] And, and so for kids who walk
[1:49:39] to radio Park elementary school that they don't,
[1:49:42] they can't use that thing.
[1:49:46] But I have to say at at this point,
[1:49:51] I haven't really heard of too many parents
[1:49:54] who let their kids or, or walk their kids to radio park
[1:49:58] because atherton's such a busy street across.
[1:50:01] But anyway, considering where we are
[1:50:06] with the cuts we have to make,
[1:50:10] I do remember we had a resident who did say that in terms
[1:50:13] of bike paths, on the other side of Atherton,
[1:50:16] you have the one that goes up by the golf course.
[1:50:19] And on our side of Atherton we have McKees Street bike path.
[1:50:23] So as much as I want to advocate for this,
[1:50:28] I would just be that maybe pushing it off a couple years
[1:50:33] until we see if there's more funding
[1:50:38] that might come through.
[1:50:41] I mean, it is in the Northland Mobility study
[1:50:44] as a tier one need, but
[1:50:52] I, that's just sort of my feeling
[1:50:55] that maybe we could push it off
[1:50:58] a couple years. Mr. White.
[1:51:01] - Yeah, so I I absolutely,
[1:51:03] I understand where you're coming from.
[1:51:05] The only, the only thing in there
[1:51:07] that I will push back slightly on is like, oh,
[1:51:09] kids aren't walking around that much.
[1:51:10] And it's like, this is, this is a textbook example
[1:51:13] of a positive feedback loop where it is like it is unsafe
[1:51:17] to walk, therefore you do not walk.
[1:51:19] And so until we make it safe to walk,
[1:51:20] you're not gonna see people walking.
[1:51:22] So that's the only thing I will, I will push back on.
[1:51:25] But as far as, you know, the, the concerns around budgeting
[1:51:30] expenditures definitely increasing on the horizon.
[1:51:33] I can see the concerns there.
[1:51:35] I will say though, that as a cyclist, as somebody who cycles
[1:51:39] to all these meetings, it,
[1:51:42] there is a disproportionate investment in
[1:51:46] motor vehicle transportation infrastructure relative
[1:51:49] to other modes of transportation.
[1:51:50] And I think that this is a good way for us
[1:51:53] to get the ball rolling and start correcting decades.
[1:51:57] And it's not just us, it's,
[1:51:59] it's every municipality in America, our correcting decades
[1:52:02] of, we'll say unsustainable infrastructure investments
[1:52:06] that require yeah, a significant amount of, of,
[1:52:09] of tax revenue to fund this is, it's an investment,
[1:52:14] but I see this as more than a worthwhile investment.
[1:52:19] And of course I'm a little biased here
[1:52:22] 'cause I think that cycling is the coolest thing in the
[1:52:24] world and I think it's the most efficient way to, to travel.
[1:52:29] And I will say that I think
[1:52:30] that this is incredibly important just
[1:52:32] because this is a high traffic corridor.
[1:52:37] It is, i I bike through there like it is not safe.
[1:52:43] And anything
[1:52:44] to make it safer is an improvement
[1:52:46] on the existing conditions.
[1:52:48] And I'll say the existing bike paths,
[1:52:52] unless you have a padded seat, it is, it is rough.
[1:52:55] So I'm, I'm, I'm in, I'm so in favor of this, I'm going
[1:53:00] to be like, this is, I I think one of the most
[1:53:04] important things is diversifying our transportation options
[1:53:08] and that this is the start to, like I said,
[1:53:12] correcting decades of, of, of errors.
[1:53:20] - Anyone else? Mr. Heller?
[1:53:23] - I just wanna recognize Ms.
[1:53:25] Stephens in the, in the fact
[1:53:26] that these are not easy decisions,
[1:53:28] especially being in your, your ward.
[1:53:31] And Yeah. You know, to say
[1:53:33] that maybe this could be postponed, that takes a lot
[1:53:35] of courage sometimes.
[1:53:37] But if you're not hearing from constituents
[1:53:39] and you would be in favor of postponing this,
[1:53:41] I would also be in favor of that
[1:53:43] because you, you are boots on the ground there.
[1:53:46] So I, I would defer to, to your expertise
[1:53:48] and knowledge of the area and the residence.
[1:53:50] Thank you.
[1:53:54] - I'm not hearing from constituents that or clamoring to
[1:53:59] - That's - And, and,
[1:54:02] and if I may, you will,
[1:54:05] Hearing from constituents about like, oh,
[1:54:09] I really want this bike path here.
[1:54:12] I mean, how many people grew up in a world
[1:54:14] where getting a car was freedom, where that was,
[1:54:18] that was the idea of what freedom of mobility was.
[1:54:22] I think that this is a way to change that perspective.
[1:54:24] I you're not, you're probably not gonna hear a lot from
[1:54:26] people about these issues other than outright
[1:54:30] not wanting it, right?
[1:54:31] Because there's not a lot of, if if the,
[1:54:35] if the transportation infrastructure is not visible, then
[1:54:39] that idea as an option is often like discarded.
[1:54:42] Like I, I will say me personally,
[1:54:45] like I know we have a lot of bike paths here.
[1:54:46] I think they're great. Well caveat with a padded bike seat,
[1:54:50] they're great but you know, like a lot of them also go
[1:54:56] behind areas away from the roads, away from
[1:54:58] where people generally see it.
[1:55:00] And so I do think that there would be,
[1:55:02] and back to my point about positive feedback loops when it
[1:55:05] comes to investing in non vehicular transportation
[1:55:08] infrastructure, this is one of the things that you will
[1:55:10] run into is that people don't think about it a lot
[1:55:13] because people automatically default to car.
[1:55:16] And this is a way to change that
[1:55:18] and as a way to reduce expenditures in the future
[1:55:22] as we give people more options
[1:55:23] to safely commute outside of a car.
[1:55:25] Because every time you get in a car, it's heavy
[1:55:27] and it degrades roads
[1:55:29] and the more people driving heavier cars
[1:55:31] degrade road faster.
[1:55:33] So getting people safe alternatives to not having to default
[1:55:37] to a car is a way to save us money in the long term.
[1:55:40] - Yeah,
[1:55:45] - A lot of good points.
[1:55:46] And thinking back with this bike path, I was kind
[1:55:49] of looking at what was proposed at what is,
[1:55:54] what I am seeing in this presentation.
[1:55:56] It looks like that bike path will either be sharing the same
[1:55:59] road surface or be pretty close to it.
[1:56:03] And I, I was,
[1:56:08] as I was preparing for this meeting, I'm almost wondering,
[1:56:10] you know, is there a different option to get
[1:56:15] a bike path a little bit further away from blue blue course?
[1:56:21] Because again, you, I think you cited it quite well, Ms.
[1:56:26] Stephens, like nobody is walking their kids
[1:56:29] or letting their kids just bike over to the school
[1:56:33] because you do, as of today you have that, you know,
[1:56:38] missing link between Clinton
[1:56:41] and at least until you get to Margin Street
[1:56:45] of you're sharing the road surface with the motoring public.
[1:56:50] I was also thinking and of something that was said as well
[1:56:54] as somebody that does actually live on t Berry Lane.
[1:56:57] I do know sir is a lot of bicycle traffic
[1:57:01] down Tbar Lane.
[1:57:04] But when you think about it, anyone coming from that side
[1:57:08] of Atherton Street, they may not, they're probably not
[1:57:12] desiring to go down that McKee Street bike path
[1:57:16] because there is a very steep
[1:57:20] incline to navigate versus t berry is kind of flat.
[1:57:25] Yes, you got a little bit of uphills,
[1:57:26] but you've got a much slower as scent
[1:57:31] as you head over towards campus and downtown.
[1:57:35] So question is, you know,
[1:57:39] what is the best option if we were
[1:57:41] to put in this missing link,
[1:57:43] but also maybe another reevaluation where, where is
[1:57:48] the current bi traffic,
[1:57:54] you know, focused. So,
[1:57:56] - And I will say - Maybe Trevor can enlight that on that.
[1:58:00] - Yeah, sorry. And, and,
[1:58:01] and again, I want to caution us on, on this line of thinking
[1:58:04] because that's going down the continued path
[1:58:05] development that has resulted in this.
[1:58:06] So when I say that, like, so I,
[1:58:11] oh this is gonna sound bad.
[1:58:13] I bike in traffic all the time.
[1:58:15] 'cause there's, you know, there's the, the bike lane is,
[1:58:18] it's, it's it's painted
[1:58:21] and it is unsettling.
[1:58:24] Yeah. So I I will definitely agree with you there.
[1:58:27] I that like having it this close to the roadway,
[1:58:30] it's like why I would, I would say well maybe we,
[1:58:34] we could do better and make it safer
[1:58:36] because paint's not gonna stop a car from hitting
[1:58:39] me, but something physical.
[1:58:41] Something physical would,
[1:58:43] and so yeah, that's food for thought.
[1:58:47] I would just challenge us to think outside of the,
[1:58:50] like our preconceived notions about transportation
[1:58:53] infrastructure, how it's currently
[1:58:54] designed and what it could be.
[1:58:56] And I think that this is, this is a unique opportunity
[1:58:58] that we have to make it something that it it
[1:59:01] that we want it to be. So
[1:59:04] - Look, look at this one photo.
[1:59:06] I I don't even know if this is,
[1:59:08] if they're proposing even bollards.
[1:59:10] I think the, the flexi post.
[1:59:12] - Yeah. And that's honestly generally speaking,
[1:59:14] that would be the best way to like, you know,
[1:59:17] and this is my uninformed opinion, I would defer
[1:59:19] to public works about maintenance of things with, you know,
[1:59:22] barriers and like I imagine it makes
[1:59:24] maintaining those roads pretty difficult.
[1:59:27] But having the like the flexible like yeah.
[1:59:31] Tho those things, those are, it's a great way to
[1:59:34] not get people super afraid about protected bike lanes.
[1:59:39] 'cause it's not like it, it puts up a physical barrier
[1:59:43] that causes people to slow down when they're passing.
[1:59:46] And that is important
[1:59:48] because maybe you shouldn't be going 50
[1:59:50] miles an hour passing somebody on a bike. But
[1:59:52] - Yeah, - I digress. Well,
[1:59:54] - Especially there, it's only a 35.
[1:59:56] Yeah, I was gonna ask you,
[1:59:57] but I think the answer is no, paint is not infrastructure.
[2:00:00] - Oh - Man, I'm speaking my language
[2:00:03] - Mr.
[2:00:04] Patterson.
[2:00:08] - We're talking about a lot of stuff
[2:00:09] that I think is great in like a nice work session.
[2:00:12] Yeah, go do the mobility study again.
[2:00:15] But right now this is about dollars and cents.
[2:00:17] That's why thank you manager king for bringing this up.
[2:00:19] Interim manager king, because we made a decision,
[2:00:25] a board last year, a different board made a decision not to
[2:00:30] raise revenue, right?
[2:00:32] As a result, there are things that are gonna cost money.
[2:00:38] And in the spirit of we don't want to hit a fiscal cliff,
[2:00:42] we're now having to make some decisions
[2:00:44] to not have fiscal cliff.
[2:00:47] So that's what this is about.
[2:00:49] Like I appreciate you Mr. White there, like you,
[2:00:52] you got your perspective, but we
[2:00:55] can talk about this all day.
[2:00:56] But it's, do you wanna spend money or not?
[2:00:59] - Yes. - That's it.
[2:01:01] So, and and, and at this point, I I'm a no that's,
[2:01:05] we didn't have the political courage to raise the revenue
[2:01:09] to pay for these things and now
[2:01:11] we've gotta make some other decisions.
[2:01:14] That's my, that's my perspective
[2:01:16] - Over.
[2:01:17] And I would challenge that by asking how much we spend on
[2:01:21] roads every year
[2:01:24] and how much cost savings could be had if people felt safe
[2:01:27] to not get in their car.
[2:01:29] And again, every time you get in a car
[2:01:31] for a little two mile trip down to the convenience store
[2:01:34] that puts stress on roadways, get on the bike
[2:01:37] and go two miles down to the convenience store.
[2:01:40] Lot different. Right.
[2:01:41] So and again, in the long term,
[2:01:42] like if we're thinking long term fiscal sustainability,
[2:01:45] a readjust a readjustment of
[2:01:47] where we are allocating our
[2:01:49] dollars, you're absolutely right.
[2:01:50] This is, this is what that's about.
[2:01:52] And this is getting us down the path
[2:01:54] of fiscal sustainability by giving people the opportunity
[2:01:57] to not have to default to the cars,
[2:01:59] which degrade roadways a lot faster than foot traffic,
[2:02:02] than bike traffic, than bus traffic.
[2:02:06] That is the way to go. And that is why I am a yes.
[2:02:11] - Yes. Mr. Haller to - Move this forward.
[2:02:13] Would you take a motion? Yeah.
[2:02:15] The board of Supervisors authorized the design phase
[2:02:18] of the Blue Course Drive
[2:02:19] and Clinton Avenue bike path extension.
[2:02:22] - Do we have a second on that? This
[2:02:23] - Is Trevor. I will second,
[2:02:25] - I have a motion by Mr.
[2:02:26] Heller, second by Mr. White.
[2:02:28] Any further discussion on this? No,
[2:02:31] - I, so this is the design phase.
[2:02:34] So this isn't,
[2:02:41] this isn't using it to go and apply for grants
[2:02:45] or use the design.
[2:02:47] - You need the design for grants. Preliminary design.
[2:02:50] - Preliminary design.
[2:02:51] So the intent then is to go ask your grants.
[2:02:55] - Yeah, yeah. It's always been,
[2:02:56] that was always the intent, right?
[2:03:00] It's the dollars and cents now of doing so.
[2:03:07] - Yes, Mr. Heller - And the staff time
[2:03:09] and everything associated with that.
[2:03:10] So yes.
[2:03:17] - Would you take, oh,
[2:03:20] - If you wanna make an amend
[2:03:21] amending motion, please do. No.
[2:03:23] - Well there's
[2:03:28] a part of me that just wants to push it off a year,
[2:03:30] just, just one year.
[2:03:32] Just bring this back next year when
[2:03:35] we'll have a new Township manager in, in place.
[2:03:39] It gives us a little more time. I, I'm with you.
[2:03:44] If I could have wave a magic wand
[2:03:46] and do this, I would, I'm just really concerned
[2:03:51] about our finances this year.
[2:04:00] - Yes, Mr. Heller, - If I may, we can,
[2:04:04] I could withdraw the motion
[2:04:07] and then we could just let it rest.
[2:04:09] Is that a possibility? Table it and come back.
[2:04:14] - I don't think this is, I think well, well, sorry,
[2:04:17] - Sorry.
[2:04:18] So my understanding this is brought forward to confirm
[2:04:20] that we want to move forward.
[2:04:22] So I do wanna, I guess if we took no action, it,
[2:04:26] it would still move forward.
[2:04:27] The money's there for this year.
[2:04:30] - Well, not not after this conversation. Okay.
[2:04:34] I mean, I think unless we get,
[2:04:35] unless we get the nod from, from the Supervisors,
[2:04:39] some direction from Supervisors of unanim
[2:04:42] or not majority from the Supervisors for us
[2:04:45] to go ahead and do this.
[2:04:47] We've asked you and we haven't got a clear Yes.
[2:04:50] So we're not gonna move forward
[2:04:52] with the way the discussion's gone tonight without a clear
[2:04:55] motion to go ahead with design
[2:04:57] - And that's that's fair.
[2:05:00] - Okay. - So motion's still on the
[2:05:05] table could go either way.
[2:05:09] Yeah, I shared my feedback on
[2:05:13] being hesitant to move this forward
[2:05:16] if it was to move forward.
[2:05:17] I, again, I don't, I don't want
[2:05:21] to like be involved in design,
[2:05:23] but I, I think the design's gonna be very important as,
[2:05:26] as Mr. White had stated.
[2:05:28] And I imagine our, our constituents would concur as well,
[2:05:32] depending on how it's constructed.
[2:05:35] You know, people wanna have the feeling of safety
[2:05:40] and it be effective and not just paint
[2:05:44] or something that's kinda, doesn't necessarily, you know,
[2:05:50] if you know what I'm talking about.
[2:05:52] So yes, Mr. King
[2:05:54] - Just offer three comments, some of which been stated just
[2:05:57] to, so one is that,
[2:06:01] and I'll let James speak
[2:06:02] to this more if you want additional information,
[2:06:04] but he has consulted with others in the region
[2:06:09] who are part of this planning
[2:06:11] and looking to see if there's a less expensive, more,
[2:06:16] you know, trimmed down way of doing this.
[2:06:19] And the answer is this, is, this plan is really
[2:06:25] the best we can do in terms of making it minimal.
[2:06:27] There is real, no other option of trying to,
[2:06:32] to trim it down from a cost standpoint.
[2:06:35] Second point, and it's been touched on, is really to go
[2:06:38] for any level of grants on this project, we have
[2:06:42] to have the preliminary design or right.
[2:06:45] We can, you know, we need to show them
[2:06:47] what we're talking about to pursue
[2:06:49] any state or federal grants.
[2:06:50] That's the only other point I wanted to make.
[2:06:52] And the third is, is that, you know, if there's no action,
[2:06:54] if you know, we could put this in the CIP again next year
[2:06:58] for the design phase,
[2:07:00] just bumping everything up one additional year.
[2:07:03] So I just wanna throw all the, I do want
[2:07:05] to ask the assistant council manager is, is
[2:07:09] that, did I capture that
[2:07:10] - Accurately?
[2:07:11] Yeah. I had talked to multiple
[2:07:16] agencies in the region and as well as
[2:07:19] our engineering consultant to look at a lease credible
[2:07:24] design in terms of what, what you could do there
[2:07:27] that might be a little bit more cost effective.
[2:07:32] Everybody I talked to said, that's what you've,
[2:07:36] this is the plan, this is the thing that makes sense there.
[2:07:40] The way the amount of traffic, the right of way, all
[2:07:43] of the things that factor into that,
[2:07:45] this is the best option.
[2:07:47] So yeah, there were, there was the RFP
[2:07:51] that was sent out in 2024
[2:07:54] or, yeah, with the responses that we got to that
[2:07:57] for this design phase ranged, there was a pretty big gap.
[2:08:02] Some were shovel ready, some were funding ready,
[2:08:05] but you're still looking at approximately,
[2:08:10] you know, with everything change, everything
[2:08:13] that's changed in the last couple of years, upwards
[2:08:16] of a hundred thousand plus for just something
[2:08:18] that is getting funding ready
[2:08:22] and really with the construction estimates
[2:08:24] that we had seen previously, I mean, it's in the CIP oh
[2:08:29] that it was, it, in 2030,
[2:08:31] you would expect a construction cost of somewhere
[2:08:34] around 3.3 million.
[2:08:37] Obviously asphalt prices are, you know, I,
[2:08:41] I think the Borough anecdotally is experiencing some, some
[2:08:46] shock on similar projects.
[2:08:48] So It would be a lot higher
[2:08:53] than what we're anticipating.
[2:08:54] Whether, you know, we get a design
[2:08:59] des or fund ready design or a, a shovel ready design.
[2:09:03] It's increasing
[2:09:07] - Mr.
[2:09:08] Pat new slash
[2:09:09] - Petrol's going up.
[2:09:11] - Oh yes. Yeah. - Which might be important
[2:09:13] to get people alternatives to cars, but I digress.
[2:09:19] - We do have one. I see what you did there.
[2:09:25] Alright,
[2:09:29] - So safety issues there at that intersection.
[2:09:34] Have there been pedestrian
[2:09:37] or bicycle fatalities or incidents at that intersection of,
[2:09:42] - Lemme pull up my dataset.
[2:09:44] I was gonna say it is in this report, I believe,
[2:09:48] but that would've been as of 2018.
[2:09:55] Recall the question. I'm sorry, I said that out loud.
[2:09:58] Yeah, yeah. Move the table second.
[2:10:04] All. Okay.
[2:10:05] Motion to table all those in
[2:10:09] favor of tabling it. Aye. Wait, what
[2:10:11] - Happens when you table, sorry, bring
[2:10:13] - Back later.
[2:10:14] Bring it back later. Yeah,
[2:10:15] it's just gonna set, get some questions answered. Okay.
[2:10:17] - Yep. - So all those in
[2:10:22] favor of tabling the motion, say aye.
[2:10:24] Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Say no. No. Okay.
[2:10:29] Motion table passed four one.
[2:10:34] - So at some point we have to have a chair bring it back.
[2:10:36] Right. Okay.
[2:10:39] - Yeah. Well I'm almost thinking what, what was said about
[2:10:44] that CIP just push it down
[2:10:49] - Or some other cost thing gets,
[2:10:52] well we're out of this, this, but Yeah.
[2:10:54] Agenda item, but
[2:10:59] - Gimme a second
[2:11:00] because something got,
[2:11:03] so we are at communications to the board.
[2:11:11] Yes, Mr. Haller.
[2:11:12] - So I had communications just not just,
[2:11:17] but a note of thanks to our police department during
[2:11:21] Easter celebrations that were held at the top
[2:11:24] of Joe Hayes Vista.
[2:11:26] I understand that officers were there just to ensure
[2:11:28] that the traffic was moving safely and that parishioners
[2:11:31] and others were safely attended to.
[2:11:33] So the clergy and folk
[2:11:36] and parishioners just wanna say they're sincere thanks
[2:11:39] to you and to the Township.
[2:11:41] So much appreciation of the officers that were there.
[2:11:44] And just on a personal note, my own communication, I see
[2:11:48] that there is a blinking 25 mile an hour sign
[2:11:51] that's been installed in Pine Grove Mills
[2:11:53] reminding folks that the speed limit is there.
[2:11:54] That's a new thing. I always appreciate seeing that.
[2:11:56] So that's personal note
[2:11:57] as a citizen taking off my supervisor hat. Thanks.
[2:12:00] - If, if you saw it blinking 25,
[2:12:02] that would indicate you were driving the speed
[2:12:04] limit. So great job when
[2:12:05] - You approach it at 45, which the speed limit
[2:12:09] before it goes from 45 to 25, it does remind you essentially
[2:12:13] that you need to be at 25 by that sign, at which point I am.
[2:12:17] And I then I lead the, as we like to call it,
[2:12:19] the Pine Grove Mills parade.
[2:12:21] Okay,
[2:12:22] - Got it.
[2:12:23] Any other communications?
[2:12:26] - I had some communications about some rental units in,
[2:12:31] in the neighborhood.
[2:12:34] - I had communications regarding
[2:12:37] parking in a social media post.
[2:12:42] Anyone else had communications?
[2:12:46] - Yeah, I think I'll, I'll be bringing it
[2:12:48] to a future meeting, but the kinda we, we voted
[2:12:53] to bring before to PML options for them
[2:12:57] to bring on legislatively around
[2:13:01] earned income tax policy.
[2:13:04] So I put something together and,
[2:13:05] and so we'll, we'll bring it forward.
[2:13:07] We just wanted to, had some communications
[2:13:10] with the female folks on what they wanted to see.
[2:13:13] So, and then
[2:13:20] Regarding COG had some communications with, at COG,
[2:13:23] there was communic, there was a constituent that,
[2:13:27] that came up and spoke and have spoken with them since.
[2:13:31] They, they would like, again, some equity around the use
[2:13:34] of fields in the region Oh yes.
[2:13:37] And our support there. And also
[2:13:42] communications around Lucy committee in the, I guess the,
[2:13:47] the, the expansion of the regional growth boundary
[2:13:49] and where it's going and how much.
[2:13:51] And so there's been, there's been some interesting,
[2:13:55] so I guess say your next kind of readout,
[2:13:58] we would love to talk through that a little
[2:13:59] - Bit more.
[2:14:00] Absolutely.
[2:14:01] - That's all for me. Thank you.
[2:14:03] - Okay. And I was gonna say, you did attend one
[2:14:06] of the PML meetings that took place in Johnstown.
[2:14:11] - That was the one. Yep. That - Was one was one. So
[2:14:13] - Output from there. Yep.
[2:14:14] - Yeah, there's no further communications.
[2:14:19] Our Centre Region Council of Governments reports.
[2:14:21] We have the joint land use and infrastructure to Lucy
[2:14:23] and the Centre Region Planning Commission had met.
[2:14:27] So Mr. White will report on Lucy. Yeah.
[2:14:31] - So enclosed in the packet is what I, I typed up,
[2:14:34] it's a brief summary.
[2:14:37] I would say if, if you were interested in going back and,
[2:14:40] and reviewing it, Matt Herndons comments from the State
[2:14:42] College Borough were, I would say,
[2:14:44] the most productive in like moving that item forward
[2:14:46] and like getting it forward.
[2:14:48] And so to elaborate on that,
[2:14:50] specifically the dr the development
[2:14:52] of regional impact criteria, there's a bunch of different
[2:14:55] criteria that need to be satisfied
[2:14:57] before expanding the regional growth boundary.
[2:14:59] And within that criteria, the first one it says,
[2:15:03] are there locations inside the regional growth boundary
[2:15:06] that could support the proposed development?
[2:15:08] If not, explain why.
[2:15:10] And so the explanation given was not satisfactory
[2:15:14] to rule out existing locations within the regional growth
[2:15:19] boundary because what is preventing them from developing
[2:15:23] within the regional growth boundary are the
[2:15:25] physical security requirements.
[2:15:27] And because we are not aware, we don't know
[2:15:30] what those physical security requirements are, we cannot say
[2:15:34] that there is not anything within the regional
[2:15:36] growth boundary that they cannot develop.
[2:15:37] So for example, if they had,
[2:15:39] I think the figure they used at the meeting was a hundred
[2:15:42] foot setback for perimeter walls.
[2:15:43] Right? So we haven't Well, and that's the thing.
[2:15:47] It's like we don't actually know what the requirements are
[2:15:49] by the federal sponsor.
[2:15:51] And so because we don't know that,
[2:15:52] we can't rule out the existing parcels here
[2:15:55] that would be qualified under that.
[2:15:57] And so that we, they were asked to come back
[2:15:59] with those physical security requirements
[2:16:01] and how that prevents them from developing within the
[2:16:05] regional growth boundary to explicitly say that we cannot,
[2:16:08] because we require X number
[2:16:10] of feet setback when you include,
[2:16:12] let's say all the buildings
[2:16:13] and the parking requirements that setback does, like,
[2:16:18] would have to be expanded outward and
[2:16:19] therefore that, you know, that parcel
[2:16:22] or parcels is not sufficient.
[2:16:24] That's the bulk of what happened there.
[2:16:29] How, or I say the bulk that is what drove this
[2:16:32] or drove them to come back.
[2:16:34] And that was the action item.
[2:16:36] Now there are still a few other concerns on my part when it
[2:16:40] comes to the DRI criteria,
[2:16:43] particularly DRI criteria number four,
[2:16:45] which is mitigating adverse public impacts according
[2:16:48] to section something.
[2:16:51] Right. And in my mind, I,
[2:16:55] and you know, this is, this is something I'm gonna have to,
[2:17:00] in my mind, I do not know
[2:17:02] how you can mitigate the adverse public impacts
[2:17:05] of consolidating A DOD affiliated research
[2:17:08] facility that close to campus.
[2:17:10] What you are doing when you are consolidating a lot
[2:17:13] of DOD affiliated research facilities,
[2:17:14] you are creating a target.
[2:17:18] I do not know how you can mitigate that.
[2:17:20] You have physical security requirements, all that fun stuff,
[2:17:23] but the me like right now, it's decentralized nature
[2:17:27] does act to mitigate a lot of those, we'll say
[2:17:31] operational threats to put it mildly.
[2:17:34] However, when you consolidate, that's a different story.
[2:17:38] However, that's not, like, it doesn't seem that that line
[2:17:42] of questioning was germane to the expansion
[2:17:45] of the regional growth boundary.
[2:17:47] But I still think it needs to be at least like
[2:17:52] factored in somehow
[2:17:53] because we're, we're operating in a, we'll say,
[2:17:57] a different geopolitical environment these days.
[2:17:59] And these are something that these, these are things
[2:18:01] that need to be considered.
[2:18:03] What, like, and one of the things that I was not privy to
[2:18:06] and that I do think is relevant is
[2:18:09] that their new campus facility is going
[2:18:11] to be located near a daycare center.
[2:18:15] I do not know of any plans to move that daycare center.
[2:18:17] It's only three, to clarify it is three buildings away from
[2:18:21] where their campus will be.
[2:18:23] However, there is historical precedent
[2:18:26] for why that is a problem.
[2:18:29] So there's a lot of issues when it comes to, again,
[2:18:32] it was DRI criteria four,
[2:18:34] which was mitigating the adverse public impacts.
[2:18:38] I, I don't see a way for them to
[2:18:40] mitigate those public impacts,
[2:18:42] but I'm not sure if that's germane to the,
[2:18:44] the actual DRI criteria.
[2:18:47] So would definitely appreciate like feedback on this
[2:18:51] and moving forward.
[2:18:53] And I, I imagine Mr. Keo has has some comments as well. No,
[2:18:59] - Go ahead.
[2:19:00] Just a couple of questions. Yeah.
[2:19:01] And maybe I don't fully understand.
[2:19:05] I mean, with, with the regional growth boundary, it's going
[2:19:08] to increase by some percentage every 10 years
[2:19:11] or whatever the cadence is.
[2:19:12] Yes. That's the agreement among, amongst the, the region.
[2:19:16] Okay. There's a percentage that it kind of just shifts out
[2:19:20] that's appeared to, to control the amount of growth.
[2:19:23] That's my understanding of, of the regional boundary.
[2:19:26] And so the ask
[2:19:31] of this applicant is to go more.
[2:19:36] And I think,
[2:19:39] and what you're saying is, is that, I guess it's not
[2:19:42] that they're doing something completely
[2:19:45] outside the boundary, like say, I don't know the, you know,
[2:19:49] the park, the, the baseball field or something.
[2:19:51] Yeah. This is, they're on the boundary, it's coming out
[2:19:55] and eight, you know, some, you know,
[2:19:57] a half mile they're asking for a mile, right?
[2:20:00] Is is that what we're talking about here? Yeah,
[2:20:02] - It's, I think it's a 50 50 acre expansion or I think Yeah.
[2:20:07] 'cause 38 are already within and it's 50 there.
[2:20:10] I'll, to get the actual numbers, apologies. Okay.
[2:20:12] But yes, they are. What's that?
[2:20:14] I didn't think it was a lot, but Yeah.
[2:20:16] And that's why I think my line of thoughts
[2:20:19] and questioning we're not really relevant
[2:20:22] to the DRI criteria, but I still thought it worth mentioning
[2:20:25] because that's concerning.
[2:20:28] But back to, you know, expansion
[2:20:29] of the regional growth boundary, which is like, that's,
[2:20:32] that's what we're talking about, right?
[2:20:35] Yeah. Like that's, they just like,
[2:20:37] and to get back to it, like they just need to show the Lucy
[2:20:41] and CRP see that there is nowhere
[2:20:45] in the regional growth boundary that could support it
[2:20:48] otherwise, if there is
[2:20:51] and it's just hard for them, then we're setting a precedent
[2:20:55] for expanding the regional growth boundary that would Yeah.
[2:20:58] Not be great moving forward
[2:20:59] because all somebody would've to say is, well,
[2:21:02] well we don't own the land within the regional
[2:21:04] growth boundary, therefore we can't.
[2:21:05] And that is not what it says. It says are there locations?
[2:21:09] It doesn't say, do you own the locations?
[2:21:11] It says, are there locations they wanna say it DRI criteria
[2:21:14] number one asks are there locations it does not ask,
[2:21:18] do you own locations?
[2:21:20] - So how many acres are being expanded? Yeah, I
[2:21:24] - I - And you don't know that
[2:21:27] - 50 I No, no.
[2:21:28] - I mean, I mean across the entire growth boundary.
[2:21:30] - Yeah. I, I don't know that number off the top my head,
[2:21:32] - But I think we're only allowed a certain percentage each
[2:21:34] municipality, and I think there's another
[2:21:37] development out there.
[2:21:39] So college Township is either pushing their limit
[2:21:42] or going beyond their limit of what they're allowed
[2:21:44] to do. So,
[2:21:46] - And so that does DRI criteria to plus and minus,
[2:21:49] or maybe there's some negotiation.
[2:21:50] Does Harris want to go out all of their percentage
[2:21:53] and give it to college?
[2:21:55] I I just, I'm hearing in in your words, there's
[2:22:00] like, I don't, you know,
[2:22:02] there's maybe some concern about the several things Yeah.
[2:22:06] But I'm not hearing the, have we tried
[2:22:08] to make this work within the boundaries that do exist?
[2:22:12] - Yeah. And that's like, they have said that they have,
[2:22:15] but like we don't ha like at that meeting,
[2:22:18] we did not have the information to prove that they had, and
[2:22:22] therefore we need that information in order
[2:22:24] to make the determination in line with what's set forth
[2:22:27] with the DRI criteria.
[2:22:28] Otherwise we are setting a precedent
[2:22:30] that could allow for expansion of the region.
[2:22:32] Like that's, that's a bad precedent.
[2:22:34] And we need to just stick with the language
[2:22:35] that is in the DRI criteria. Sure.
[2:22:38] - I, I look, I'm, we need
[2:22:39] to have this same energy across every single thing
[2:22:42] that crosses our desks.
[2:22:44] And like, again, the ball field with the,
[2:22:46] with the pipe they wanna bring in like I'm a no.
[2:22:49] Why? Because it's nowhere close to the boundary right now.
[2:22:53] And, and it's setting a bad precedence to then just like,
[2:22:55] oh yeah, we'll do that one pipe fine.
[2:22:57] Yeah. At the cost of whatever.
[2:22:59] But this is a different, it's not a, it's not a,
[2:23:01] it's a different precedence is what I'm hearing.
[2:23:04] There's land and they get a little bit
[2:23:07] and they want a little bit more and,
[2:23:09] and maybe it's a lot more that I, I, yeah.
[2:23:12] But at the end of the day, I, I'm, I'm,
[2:23:17] I don't think it's a, I don't think it's a far stretch
[2:23:20] that if somebody wanted to, you know, a little bit more
[2:23:23] on an, an existing boundary
[2:23:25] and somebody wants a little bit less to work that out,
[2:23:28] to figure out how to make that work.
[2:23:30] That's, that's where I am is how, how do we make this work?
[2:23:34] Because I do recognize
[2:23:36] that there's daycares all over the Borough, by the way.
[2:23:39] And so just, I, I just heard all these
[2:23:41] things that I'm not sure.
[2:23:43] - Sorry, - They're fully valid right now. Yeah.
[2:23:45] Let somebody decided to build something. Yeah.
[2:23:47] We're talking about the boundary itself Yeah. Over yeah.
[2:23:49] - Right now. And that's why I was just like,
[2:23:51] these were the questions that I had
[2:23:53] and looking back, they were not necessarily
[2:23:55] the most productive questions.
[2:23:57] Those are, those are questions for, well, I,
[2:24:00] I don't necessarily know right now the appropriate forum for
[2:24:03] that, but Yeah, I mean I am,
[2:24:04] I am concerned about daycare near future.
[2:24:08] I, I, I'll say it, potential military target,
[2:24:10] - You know, there's one right there, right? Oh,
[2:24:12] - Are you?
[2:24:13] Yeah. But what I'm saying right now is like decent,
[2:24:14] having it decentralized reduces the risk
[2:24:17] and then centralizing it increases the risk that,
[2:24:20] that is my concern.
[2:24:22] But that's not what we're talking about.
[2:24:23] We're talking about the regional growth boundary
[2:24:25] and whether or not they can expand it. Yeah.
[2:24:28] - Yeah. Pretty - So
[2:24:30] - Fair. Thank you. Yeah.
[2:24:31] - So I think going into your next meeting,
[2:24:36] where is the board on
[2:24:39] expanding regional growth boundary?
[2:24:41] It sounds like we, we are at least in concurrence with what
[2:24:46] the outcome of that particular meeting was like, Hey,
[2:24:48] get us some more information
[2:24:50] because once it comes back to Lucy,
[2:24:55] Lucy's gonna have the option to bring it
[2:24:57] to executive committee where, you know,
[2:24:58] I, I would vote on it.
[2:24:59] I want to try to make sure I represent
[2:25:02] and encapsulate, you know,
[2:25:03] Ferguson Township to the best of my abilities.
[2:25:05] And it's okay if we don't have to, we don't have to answer
[2:25:07] that today, because again,
[2:25:09] there will be another Lucy meeting
[2:25:10] before exe it goes to executive committee.
[2:25:13] So I can kind of get everyone's consensus then.
[2:25:16] So I know I'm representing what
[2:25:21] Ferguson Township's gonna go into general forum with, so,
[2:25:24] no, I know Next. Alright.
[2:25:29] - Yeah, yeah.
[2:25:32] I'll I'll just say like what you were talking about
[2:25:34] with the effectively a cap
[2:25:36] and trade on the regional growth boundaries.
[2:25:38] Very interesting. I'm gonna look more into, into this
[2:25:42] and yeah, I'm gonna read more into this.
[2:25:44] - So
[2:25:49] - Yeah, that's all I got.
[2:25:51] - Anything else? Thank you. I
[2:25:52] - Just have to say, when you say you're gonna look a little
[2:25:54] more into this, I know it's way more than that.
[2:25:58] - Just a little. It's gonna come in with a 500 page report.
[2:26:04] - We all have our hyper fixations, so Yeah. Lemme have
[2:26:06] - It.
[2:26:08] Did you want to hear what Mr. Keo had to say?
[2:26:10] - Absolutely. He was there. All right.
[2:26:11] And I think he can speak yes
[2:26:12] - And well because - He's the
[2:26:15] - Yeah, he, he's speaking for himself,
[2:26:17] but he, he was, yeah, he is a part of our
[2:26:21] Centre Region Planning Commission. And,
[2:26:23] - And I happened to be in attendance
[2:26:25] because this was a joint meeting of the two COG entities.
[2:26:31] And while I wasn't directed to speak to you tonight,
[2:26:36] I stayed this evening because of, in part this discussion.
[2:26:40] 'cause what Trevor has presented to you, I, I, the,
[2:26:44] the planning commission was also planned
[2:26:48] to be asked for approval.
[2:26:51] And they could not do that
[2:26:54] because while we had a quorum to start the meeting,
[2:26:58] the Penn State representative had to recuse himself
[2:27:02] and the chair would not then recognize the quorum.
[2:27:05] So the planning commission never voted.
[2:27:08] So we have that on the planning commission
[2:27:11] agenda in the future.
[2:27:13] Oh, okay. But
[2:27:18] a couple of things came to mind
[2:27:19] and I immediately thought, boy, I I need some feedback
[2:27:24] from Ferguson Township
[2:27:27] - Because - Among other things, when they're talking about
[2:27:31] land that might be available within the regional growth
[2:27:35] boundary for this consolidation,
[2:27:40] that is a 30 year plan of consolidation
[2:27:45] of a government entity
[2:27:49] that lives in the world of secrets.
[2:27:55] And right away, two Ferguson Township sites
[2:27:59] pop up as being large enough
[2:28:03] to accommodate this 30 year growth.
[2:28:08] One of them being on Blue Course Drive
[2:28:11] - Pine Hall. Yep.
[2:28:12] - And, and then also they were talking about the golf
[2:28:15] course at Penn State
[2:28:18] - In - What, and then we've got Hundreds of acres
[2:28:24] of ag land that could
[2:28:28] fit into this.
[2:28:30] So right away, I I I became concerned that there needs to be
[2:28:35] some kind of, of, of direction.
[2:28:37] My concern about Blue Course Drive folks, unless,
[2:28:42] unless you tell me that this is all wrong,
[2:28:46] I am not in favor, I do not feel that the blue course drive
[2:28:52] land that is available
[2:28:53] and would meet the acreage is a good idea
[2:28:59] because this facility, this, this,
[2:29:03] this group within Penn State, a RL,
[2:29:07] their intent is to consolidate
[2:29:10] and they live in the world of secrets.
[2:29:12] And I don't think secrets
[2:29:15] and residential property fit very well together.
[2:29:20] Having, having residents near secrets
[2:29:25] that residents aren't gonna feel real good about it.
[2:29:29] We're never gonna know what's going on
[2:29:31] because we can't legisl it.
[2:29:35] And so consequently, the further away from residents I get
[2:29:39] with a RL, the better I feel about, you know,
[2:29:44] proximity, et cetera.
[2:29:46] Now whether, whether we've gotta expand the regional growth
[2:29:49] boundary or not, you know, that,
[2:29:50] that's also a little different question.
[2:29:53] But that's my biggest concern
[2:29:55] as a planning commission person and, and,
[2:29:59] and getting some sense from you all as to, as to where
[2:30:04] we stand with regard to available land in Ferguson Township
[2:30:09] that could accommodate the a RL consolidation.
[2:30:15] And I'm not feeling good about the land that we do have
[2:30:20] at this time, but Trevor
[2:30:22] and I, you know, we sat at the same meeting,
[2:30:25] we heard all the same stuff. Yeah, yeah,
[2:30:28] - Yeah.
[2:30:29] I, I agree. I like it's res like, honestly like residents
[2:30:33] and to your point, secrets, like,
[2:30:36] and on top of that, it's gonna be a 2000 min, like,
[2:30:39] I don't wanna say minimum around 2000 vehicle trips added
[2:30:42] on wherever it goes.
[2:30:44] And that, like on Blue course adding 2000 vehicles on, like
[2:30:49] that's, that would, that would make that road dangerous.
[2:30:53] That would make that bike path more dangerous.
[2:30:55] Like, you know, there's,
[2:30:57] how do you mitigate the adverse public
[2:30:59] impacts of something like this?
[2:31:01] 'cause wherever you're putting it,
[2:31:02] you're putting at least 2000 daily vehicle trips there.
[2:31:06] - So that a RL site is like
[2:31:08] by Beaver Stadium right out there in the
[2:31:10] - Yeah, it's gonna be on in Innovation Park.
[2:31:12] - Yeah. Asian Park. Yeah. Which is right off the
[2:31:14] highway, right off 99.
[2:31:15] Yep. So there's no like going through the city traffic,
[2:31:17] it's, and oh by the way,
[2:31:20] did they talk about any jobs that were gonna come?
[2:31:22] I, I'm just thinking about this,
[2:31:23] like if jobs come, that's what they want.
[2:31:25] Where do they sleep? Ferguson.
[2:31:29] - Oh yes. So
[2:31:30] because yeah, they, they were talking about
[2:31:32] jobs in other parts of Innovation Park,
[2:31:36] if they had the a RL campus
[2:31:39] - Consolidated.
[2:31:40] So then Pine Hall unfortunately will get developed
[2:31:42] with some residential landings, the rest of Saybrook,
[2:31:48] other side of hunters, Glen other, other Chase.
[2:31:51] I think there's a lot of, there's a lot opportunity there.
[2:31:53] I we're probably going way too deep.
[2:31:55] - Yeah. Well, yeah. See, - But I think, yeah,
[2:32:00] - And this is my feedback.
[2:32:01] I was gonna say this is kind of what the meeting felt like.
[2:32:02] There was a lot of, like, a lot of people had a lot
[2:32:06] of feelings, myself included about this.
[2:32:08] And it pro it went,
[2:32:11] it went more than it should
[2:32:12] have probably just like we're doing right now.
[2:32:14] Yeah. But it's, I mean it's, it's a, this is,
[2:32:17] this is a heavy topic, right?
[2:32:19] It, it should not be considered lightly.
[2:32:22] - I and, and I think we're, you know,
[2:32:26] I don't think there's anything wrong
[2:32:27] with us exploring those implications.
[2:32:29] Like if there is more jobs where, where,
[2:32:31] where are those people gonna live?
[2:32:32] And Mr. White, you know,
[2:32:34] looking at Blue Course Drive vehicle traffic,
[2:32:37] have you seen Science Park
[2:32:38] and Valley Vista drive traffic even
[2:32:40] before the turn lanes were put in down there? Believe
[2:32:44] - Me, and I think Mr.
[2:32:46] Chair, the impression that I have gotten
[2:32:50] with the discussions that planning commission,
[2:32:53] the Regional Planning Commission have had, in addition to,
[2:32:56] to the joint meeting, the impressions that I've gotten is
[2:33:00] that we're not talking about a huge
[2:33:06] influx of new jobs.
[2:33:09] We're talking about a consolidation
[2:33:13] of their efforts with regard to the research
[2:33:17] and the work that they do taking and,
[2:33:20] and some of the buildings
[2:33:22] that they've got even here in Ferguson Township and,
[2:33:25] and moving that part of the operation
[2:33:28] to a consolidated campus environment so
[2:33:31] that they can improve.
[2:33:33] What's been explained to me in part is improve their
[2:33:38] communication and the logistics of some of the projects
[2:33:42] that they're working on.
[2:33:45] That's what's been described to me.
[2:33:48] And, and so I don't know if we're talking about
[2:33:53] creating a lot of jobs in this,
[2:33:57] but rather a relocation with, with an expansion.
[2:34:04] The other thing that I thought about, the buildings
[2:34:09] that they're in here in Ferguson Township,
[2:34:14] for which they're doing some stuff probably
[2:34:19] that, that has a great deal of security attached to it.
[2:34:24] Those buildings were built without certain
[2:34:30] security attributes,
[2:34:33] attributes in the building of them.
[2:34:36] And now as they look forward to their new work
[2:34:41] and the new kinds of things that they wanna bid on,
[2:34:44] they haven't got the physical structure that can accommodate
[2:34:49] the, the security that they need, especially
[2:34:53] with the, with this light and sound.
[2:34:56] And, you know, we just sent somebody around the moon
[2:35:01] - Sent, sent a few people around the
[2:35:02] - Moon and, and so
[2:35:04] consequently I think there are a lot of factors
[2:35:06] that in my mind, justify what they're going to do.
[2:35:10] Yeah. What they want to do.
[2:35:13] And now it's a matter of, of
[2:35:16] attaching our DRI process to
[2:35:20] their locate their preferred location
[2:35:23] and whether we can accommodate that.
[2:35:26] - Yeah. - So,
[2:35:30] - Thank you.
[2:35:31] Thank you for sharing. And I was gonna say, I did watch
[2:35:33] that meeting and I even, one thing that they had mentioned,
[2:35:36] like if they get like a new contract
[2:35:37] or something, some, sometimes it's like they gotta hit the
[2:35:40] ground running and if that means getting a building up
[2:35:43] within, you know, a few months
[2:35:45] or a year, they, they gotta have something shovel ready
[2:35:48] and ready to go quickly.
[2:35:50] - And I would caution against a military industrial complex
[2:35:53] moving fast and breaking things.
[2:35:55] 'cause that, that, that, that's not good.
[2:35:58] So yeah, let's, let's, let's, let's go through this process
[2:36:01] and let's make sure everybody's right. Yeah.
[2:36:03] - Yeah. Did you really
[2:36:05] - Say that the golf course was an option?
[2:36:08] - I was gonna say, so here's the thing,
[2:36:09] like if you look at their plan,
[2:36:11] and this is, I am, I would,
[2:36:15] I don't have the numbers in front of me,
[2:36:17] but if you look at their parking arrangements,
[2:36:18] I would make the argument that their parking arrangements
[2:36:20] have a larger footprint than the buildings.
[2:36:23] And so there is like, yes, it would be more
[2:36:27] to build a parking garage.
[2:36:28] It would, but DRI criteria one does not say
[2:36:31] it's difficult to build here.
[2:36:32] It says, can you, so again, precedent,
[2:36:35] DRI criteria one, let's, let's see that. No,
[2:36:39] - But I heard parking golf course.
[2:36:41] - Yeah. So - Could build on the golf course.
[2:36:44] What, what? At least that's what I thought.
[2:36:46] - Because they have two, like Penn State has two golf
[2:36:48] courses, which I don't know about their second one
[2:36:50] 'cause I'm not a golfer.
[2:36:53] So Yeah, like the, the idea was proposed by,
[2:36:57] or was light lightly floated by
[2:36:59] by council member Matt Herndon on the Borough.
[2:37:02] He was like, he was, he, I wouldn't say that he was
[2:37:05] saying like, Hey maybe you guys should develop here.
[2:37:07] He was more saying like, Hey, here's a space,
[2:37:10] why is this not available?
[2:37:13] It has not been described to us why this is not able
[2:37:16] to be developed and
[2:37:17] therefore it does not satisfy the DRI criteria
[2:37:19] because they have, yeah.
[2:37:21] So we need to know,
[2:37:23] can you develop within the regional growth boundary?
[2:37:25] And if not specifically, why?
[2:37:27] 'cause if the answer to why is it's hard, that's not good.
[2:37:32] We, we need to know exactly why.
[2:37:35] So that way we have consistency
[2:37:37] and we stick to the letter of the, the process.
[2:37:41] So that's that. That's all I'll say on that. Thank
[2:37:45] - You.
[2:37:46] Yeah.
[2:37:48] - The golf course. Yep. Yeah. Thank, thank you Mr. Keo.
[2:37:53] I, I I think that was actually perfect
[2:37:56] because when we are talking things like this that do go
[2:37:59] through the regional planning commission, I have wanted
[2:38:02] to try to make it a priority
[2:38:03] that the regional planning commission representative
[2:38:06] is at least aware of where the board stands.
[2:38:08] Because again, it probably does help you as a, as our,
[2:38:13] one of our planning commission
[2:38:14] representatives for the Township.
[2:38:16] So thank thank you for bringing that up.
[2:38:18] - One more thing. I'm - Sorry. And Yeah, absolutely.
[2:38:19] Go ahead.
[2:38:21] - I wanna go on record that first
[2:38:25] and Township has gotten some sort
[2:38:27] of bad rap about being business friendly.
[2:38:32] I don't know if this is kind of in that same vein of like,
[2:38:35] folks are gonna go, what the heck?
[2:38:37] I'm just asking for a thing.
[2:38:40] But I I would, I would ask that the conversations,
[2:38:46] I I think it just spurs me to, to come from the heart here
[2:38:50] that to, to ask about a golf course
[2:38:55] isn't good faith, quite frankly.
[2:38:57] I mean like at least that, at least the way that
[2:39:00] that bill say like they want to build a thing, you're like,
[2:39:03] well prove that you can't build in regional growth boundary.
[2:39:06] Why won't you build in Pine Hall?
[2:39:08] Well, because it's a PRD for residential,
[2:39:12] why won't you build on the golf course?
[2:39:14] 'cause it's a golf course. Public use.
[2:39:16] These are, it's almost like throwing darts
[2:39:21] just because versus like having very clean and clear Okay.
[2:39:26] Rationale for getting to either a yes or a no. That's
[2:39:29] - Okay.
[2:39:30] So regardless they're gonna have to rezone this area.
[2:39:33] So if like, if they wanted to, like with this call,
[2:39:37] 'cause right now the land that they're moving
[2:39:38] to is currently in use by the department of agri
[2:39:40] or the department Yeah, the agricultural department.
[2:39:43] Right? Yeah. And so they're going to be reusing that land.
[2:39:48] What about your other land that you have?
[2:39:50] Can you, like, why can you not reuse
[2:39:52] that like you are reusing this
[2:39:54] so we're applying the same frame that they are entering into
[2:39:57] with this land and applying it to the others.
[2:39:59] So for example, the golf course, right?
[2:40:02] Why can this not be rezoned to, I, I dunno
[2:40:05] what would be here like IRD Well,
[2:40:07] and yeah, there was something specific
[2:40:08] that they mentioned which was like,
[2:40:09] we don't have a master plan provision when it comes
[2:40:11] to our Zoning and that made it difficult for them to,
[2:40:13] to develop the consolidated campus.
[2:40:15] And so that is also something that's, you know,
[2:40:18] perhaps down the line is, is worth exploring.
[2:40:21] 'cause like what if a larger business does want to come here
[2:40:24] and open up a major campus?
[2:40:26] Well then yeah, maybe it would benefit us to have some kind
[2:40:28] of master provision that allows them to streamline
[2:40:30] that approvals process.
[2:40:32] I yeah. Right. But I I I hear where you're coming from.
[2:40:36] I think I, maybe I wasn't clear enough.
[2:40:38] I don't think that who the, the person
[2:40:41] who was asking about golf courses
[2:40:42] was asking it in bad faith.
[2:40:44] I do think that this person was, was asking
[2:40:45] because hey, we don't, like you still haven't proved
[2:40:49] to us like the land that you have, like why
[2:40:51] that cannot be developed.
[2:40:52] And this is an example.
[2:40:55] - Okay, so - In,
[2:40:57] in my understanding from watching the meeting,
[2:41:00] the golf course isn't just to go have a good time, you know,
[2:41:03] with your buddies like the, there there is an educational
[2:41:08] aspect to, in research aspect to it that is actively in use.
[2:41:13] So it, you know, it serves more than just a golf course.
[2:41:20] - Again, let's just be,
[2:41:22] but I what would Matt Heller do, right?
[2:41:23] Like what would you do?
[2:41:25] Matt votes yes or no to a lot of things.
[2:41:27] I, I think I you are the model.
[2:41:30] Like thank you and, and and, and, and Patty too.
[2:41:34] We got good, good team here.
[2:41:36] But I think you'll be very, very nice
[2:41:40] and say no at the same time.
[2:41:42] So I think I just like Nova
[2:41:45] - Daggers. Yes.
[2:41:45] - You know, - Sorry.
[2:41:48] - Yeah, just I'm
[2:41:53] done. Thanks. Okay.
[2:41:54] - Nothing else for Lucy? Nope, I'm good. Okay.
[2:41:57] And we'll we, we'll probably have
[2:41:59] another stab at this next month.
[2:42:02] Ad hoc parks and library committee. Ms. Stephens.
[2:42:04] - Right that, so that committee we met,
[2:42:08] it was mostly an introduction
[2:42:10] and got a whole lot of information about parks which
[2:42:15] was a little bit familiar with.
[2:42:17] And then, but what I didn't realize was got a whole lot
[2:42:20] of information about the library.
[2:42:22] And I think the whole gist of this is to try
[2:42:24] and help consolidate some of our COG committees
[2:42:26] and we're gonna see what we can come up with here.
[2:42:30] But the one thing that was interesting out
[2:42:32] of this particular committee meeting that I did attend was
[2:42:38] the difference between like the parks authority
[2:42:40] and the library foundation
[2:42:43] and the different streams that each one of them
[2:42:48] can get in terms of grants.
[2:42:49] Like there are some things that only a municipal
[2:42:53] authority can apply for grants,
[2:42:56] but then there are other things that the foundation can get
[2:43:01] and not have to pay a prevailing wage so they can do things
[2:43:05] in more cost efficient manner
[2:43:08] and when money goes through that.
[2:43:10] So it was really very interesting more to come on that.
[2:43:15] Anyway, and I guess that's it.
[2:43:18] If you have any questions about the Parks
[2:43:20] and library committee.
[2:43:25] All right. Right in to what, sorry, I'm ready in,
[2:43:29] have a 10 minute conversation
[2:43:30] - About that.
[2:43:31] - Okay. We'll have coffee just diverted me,
[2:43:36] - Supervisor Stephens has requested not
[2:43:39] to prolong the meeting any further.
[2:43:42] She is ramping up for an adjournment motion here
[2:43:45] - Momentarily.
[2:43:46] I'm getting ready. Exactly.
[2:43:48] And then the parks
[2:43:49] and rec, there was no action came out of that.
[2:43:51] We basically just did some more wordsmithing.
[2:43:54] There is a workflow thing that's going to be coming
[2:43:57] to the managers for review,
[2:43:59] but other than that, yeah we were just tweaking language.
[2:44:06] No action items came out of that meeting.
[2:44:11] Any questions about governance?
[2:44:14] We're still chugging along slow and steady.
[2:44:21] - I had forgot to put in my C-C-M-P-O
[2:44:26] last month, but we did meet in February.
[2:44:28] Supervisor White had joined me for that one. Mr.
[2:44:34] Keo had left but I, I wanted to share
[2:44:37] that there is a bridge over half Moon Creek over in our
[2:44:41] western end that's on the tip for,
[2:44:45] looks like does engineering in 27 with
[2:44:50] construction replacement for 2028.
[2:44:54] So it's coming
[2:44:58] to needing a replacement there.
[2:44:59] And then passenger rail study seems to be moving along.
[2:45:05] Looks like there's gonna be some work anticipated
[2:45:08] to be completed by June, 2026.
[2:45:13] As you've probably heard CC MPO staff, they've been meeting
[2:45:16] with representatives from Pendot, Amtrak, ECOG
[2:45:22] as well as CAA and am even Amtran.
[2:45:24] We didn't initially, there was some interest
[2:45:28] that spurred up out of Blair County, so they seem
[2:45:31] to be also at the table in this.
[2:45:34] So more to come. Great.
[2:45:37] Any questions on C-C-M-P-O?
[2:45:43] Okay, I believe I can move on to calendar items
[2:45:47] and there was a couple to point out
[2:45:52] while we covered them all tonight.
[2:45:54] Clearwater Conservancy, the Arbor Day and Kaboom.
[2:45:58] So with that I will defer to Ms.
[2:46:02] Stephens for item number 11.
[2:46:04] - Motion to Adjourn. - Alright,
[2:46:06] we're adjourned. Have a good evening everyone.
[2:46:07] - Thank
[2:46:39] - Give thanks for literacy.
[2:46:41] Literacy means a life of increased safety achievements
[2:46:45] and community participation.
[2:46:47] For more than 50 years,
[2:46:48] Mid-State Literacy Council has empowered thousands
[2:46:51] of residents with literacy skills improving
[2:46:53] their family's lives.
[2:46:55] Literacy builds our community.
[2:46:57] Help us celebrate literacy
[2:46:59] and support Mid-State Literacy Council by volunteering
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[2:47:06] www dot mid-state literacy council.org.