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- The CACJ is a nonprofit focused on restorative justice,

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a system of criminal justice

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that focuses on the rehabilitation of offenders

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through reconciliation with victims

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and the community, it's justice with the goal

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to heal rather than punish.

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Our five programs are pretrial supervision, youth aid panel,

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the youth counseling pilot program, mediation

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and community conferencing.

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Our program save taxpayers over $400,000 per year,

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empower individuals

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and groups to resolve their own conflicts and are affordable

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and accessible to the community.

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To learn more or to make a referral,

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visit our website or give us a call.

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- The Centre Region Active Adult Center is a vibrant,

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inclusive, and happening location designed

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for active adults 55 years and over to be social

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and participate in new experiences while all

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staying close to home.

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We promote healthy aging through our many activities

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and health forums, as well as lifelong learning

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through classes and social interaction

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that suit almost any lifestyle.

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Whether you prefer line dancing followed by a walk

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or a game of bridge and a meal,

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the center is sure to have something for you.

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Visit crpr.org for more info.

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- I'd like to call the order this, this meeting.

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This works. This

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- Meeting is being recorded and summarized.

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- Okay, I'll Thank you. I'll start again.

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I would like to call the order of the

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this work session meeting

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of the Ferguson Township Planning Commission for Monday,

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September 14th, 2026.

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This meeting has been properly advertised in accordance

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with Pennsylvania Sunshine Act as a hybrid meeting

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with the option to attend virtually via the WebEx platform

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or in person here in the main meeting room.

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With, with that, we'll have a Roll Call.

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- Louis Steinberg. Here. Bill Keo. Here. Nick.

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Tony Here. Michael Radus. Here.

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Michael AK Cannot attend this evening. Ralph Wheland here.

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Shannon Holiday.

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She was there. Yeah, she's online.

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Melissa Strock.

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- I see - She just popped up there. I'm here.

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Kayla Corl here. And Lisa Strickland.

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Here, chair. We have a quorum.

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- Thank you. Next on the agenda is Public Comment,

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and as I indicate each meeting, this is an opportunity

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for people who are here, who are representing for the public

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are themselves,

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but members of the public to address, raise any question

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or issue they'd like that is not on the agenda.

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The, the item. And

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of course on the agenda today is really just one item

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and we will all have the opportunity to share thoughts

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and raise questions with regard to it.

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So at this point, I'm simply asking if there's anybody here

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from the public who would like to make a comment with regard

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to any matter other than the DA data center question.

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Okay. Oh, oh, yes ma'am. I'm sorry. Yes.

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Would if you'd like to come forward and identify yourself

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and speak to Mike so that we can all hear.

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- Hi everybody, my name is Natalie Ray

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and I'm a Ferguson Township resident.

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I just wanted to make a comment

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that I'd like more information about what's happening at

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West Aaron Drive the removal of trees.

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Looks like it's been clear cut

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and I saw an article in Center Daily Times about it

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and so just would like more information

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about what's going on there. Thank you.

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- Thank you. I'll just defer to the staff.

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Does staff have any more information to provide to us?

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- Not at this time, but we,

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we do not have a formal submission

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and we do not a formal land development

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submission for that location.

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- And I, we probably read the same article

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and the article did explain the

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idiosyncrasy, if that's the correct word of the law, in

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that if you are the owner of property, you do have the right

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to do what you want on it in terms of what's on it

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without any municipal approval.

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If you have submitted a plan for development,

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then you come under the auspices

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of the municipality in terms of compliance.

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So it's goes back, I think, to the fact that each of us,

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at each of us who is a pro a a property owner can do

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what we want on our property

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without municipal interference

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unless we are asking the municipality

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to be able to do something.

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So I think there have been two such

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incidences here in the Township, the one

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that's off Blue Course Drive,

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and then this one, which is in patent

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and in Ferrison Township.

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But we, there is nothing at this point.

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- I think just, just in terms of clarification, Louis,

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the you can do what you want on your property

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reference is related to our tree Ordinance.

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Not anything in general and,

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and in our tree Ordinance, as long as the owner

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of the property has not submitted any kind of a plan,

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they can in fact, you know,

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have it timbered because that's protected

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and governed by state law.

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- And to throw another wrinkle into that,

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you may find it difficult to believe,

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but trees are not considered real estate.

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They're a crop on your property.

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I been, this meeting is being

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- Recorded and summarized.

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- If you, if you are growing corn, you would've the right

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to harvest your corn,

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you can harvest your tree or cut your trees.

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Okay. With that it will go on.

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We have the minutes, which have been prepared.

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And is there, are there any questions

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or comments with regard to the minutes?

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I move approval. Okay, second,

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- I'll second - On favor and say aye.

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Aye. Aye. And it's repetitive,

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but I'll say, well, I won't say in every meeting,

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but they're fantastic minutes

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both in the detail and the accuracy.

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Accuracy. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome.

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A staff report board of Supervisors report.

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- I am happy to say with our active land development plans

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that Blaise Alexander Hyundai has been formally recorded.

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You may note that it has been removed from the list.

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Aside from that, I would be happy

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to take any questions on the land development plans.

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- Okay. And Miles is, we jumped,

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essentially jumped ahead,

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but are there, is there any report from Board

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of Supervisors with,

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- I apologize. That's

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- All right.

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- I, I missed the last board meeting.

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Kim, would you, do we have anything

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to report from planning and Zoning? Nothing new.

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- Okay. Thank you

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- Mr.

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Chair. Just as a comment, Toma, thank you for

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adding on a chart the street addresses

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for the different sites.

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It makes a difference. It it, I can just plug that into my

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GPS and my car gate takes me there.

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I don't have to figure out everything.

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So thank you very much for that clarification and adding it.

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- Okay. I might note, Shannon,

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you are now here is correct, although I don't know.

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You, you, Shannon. Shannon, you're, you're, you're present,

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present, is that right? Right.

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- Yeah. Yes, I am.

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Well, as you can see, I was having some,

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some technical challenges, but yes sir, I am here.

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- Very good. Good. Okay. Okay.

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So which leads to, is there A-C-R-P-C report? Report

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- I will defer to Phil.

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He attended in my stat

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because I was under the understanding

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that we would've line bash, but then it moved.

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So still,

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- Yes, I attended and there were two

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or three items on the agenda

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for the regional planning commission.

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The first one was with regard to College Township,

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and if you remember, college Township asked through A DRI

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to be able to extend the sewer service area

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to accommodate future growth of a RL.

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Well, that went through,

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that got approved at the COG meetings.

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And so now College Township was following that up

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with then a rezoning request so

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that the land is now zoned appropriately

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that the DRI has been passed.

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So we, we recommended they had the request in

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and we recommended that, that it complied with and,

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and was okay with the Centre Region Planning

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and Planning department.

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Second thing on the agenda had to do with Harris Township

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and they had two proposals in terms

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of amendments to their ordinances.

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One of 'em had to do with, with

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becoming a little more specific

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regarding shade trees in their Zoning

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Ordinance and their street trees.

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And the other had to do with

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the re the technical requirements for

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having signs development sign posted

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at the property line when a development is being proposed.

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We supported both of those.

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The third item was a, a little bit interesting.

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It is been in the news a lot about Addison Court.

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This came from the Borough and,

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and I don't understand all of the details

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surrounding this issue, but apparently

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regardless of what the Borough is going to do with

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Addison Court, and it appears they're gonna buy it

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or rent it or lease it or something to protect it.

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But along with that whole process, there was a request

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by the owner to have a change in the height requirements

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related to that building.

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Originally, he wanted, I think, to

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demolish the building and put up highrise.

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And so this is part of that.

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And for some reason that request kind

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of is hung on even though

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that's not being what's being discussed.

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And the planning commission for the Borough

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had this in front of them

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and they recommended to the Borough

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against making any changes until the

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full status of Addison Court has been established.

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And, and we know what, what, what, what is going to happen.

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And the planning commission, commission planning,

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commission commission supported,

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supported the Borough Planning Commission recommendation,

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recommendation that a hold be put on this

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or not granted until

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after Addison court discussions

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and resolution has been made.

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So those were the, those were the only items that were on

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the plan commission agenda at the region.

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Region. I will ask Shannon and their next meeting.

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Is the luncheon meeting meeting this month? Month?

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Do you want me to attend? Attend?

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Because there's a luncheon meeting. Meeting,

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- Yeah.

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I won't be able to be present for that.

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- Okay. Okay. I will do, I will do that.

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That I'll take care of of that. Thank you. Thank

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- You.

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Thank you.

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- Same thing, bill. Okay, lunch

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next on, on the agenda is unfinished business committee,

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which which leads to the, really the only matter

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before us this evening, it is the draft

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of the data center conditional use Ordinance amendment.

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The purpose today is for us to have a discussion

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with regard to it.

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Staff has drafted the proposed amendment

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to Ordinance amendment.

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And without getting

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saying anymore, other than say, certainly a lot

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of work was put into this

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and it represents, I think, think a lot of of thought.

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But with that in mind, the way in which we're going

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to proceed is staff will first make presentation

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explaining what's in the Ordinance and,

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and going over things.

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After that, the members

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of the planning commission will have the opportunity to make

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either ask questions or make comments.

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And third,

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then the public will be afforded the same opportunity

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of raising questions or making comments.

264
00:14:12,066 --> 00:14:14,834
So I guess I'll turn to Kim at this point.

265
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:19,266
And I, I would hope that as part of the explanation

266
00:14:20,467 --> 00:14:23,266
for each person who has had the opportunity

267
00:14:23,333 --> 00:14:25,266
to see the initial draft,

268
00:14:25,700 --> 00:14:28,834
and now we've been handed a revised one,

269
00:14:28,867 --> 00:14:30,533
and I understand it's not significant,

270
00:14:30,934 --> 00:14:32,734
but if you will, some either you

271
00:14:32,734 --> 00:14:35,233
or Myas will point out the differences between

272
00:14:35,266 --> 00:14:37,233
what had been clearly previously

273
00:14:37,500 --> 00:14:40,300
and what has been it tonight.

274
00:14:40,700 --> 00:14:42,233
Yes. Thank you. Thank you. You

275
00:14:42,467 --> 00:14:43,467
- Thank you, chair.

276
00:14:43,734 --> 00:14:48,066
I am happy to present our draft by way of introduction.

277
00:14:48,634 --> 00:14:52,066
On April four 13th, part of ongoing discussion

278
00:14:52,133 --> 00:14:54,266
with the public, the commission voted

279
00:14:54,433 --> 00:14:57,834
to officially ask the board of Supervisors to direct us

280
00:14:58,233 --> 00:14:59,634
to look at this a little bit closer.

281
00:15:00,100 --> 00:15:01,500
On May 5th, the board

282
00:15:01,500 --> 00:15:04,734
of Supervisors heard her C concern brought us back

283
00:15:04,734 --> 00:15:07,000
to the planning commission June 24th.

284
00:15:07,133 --> 00:15:10,033
We had additional discussion at the planning mission level.

285
00:15:10,367 --> 00:15:13,867
Since that time, staff staff essentially collected

286
00:15:13,867 --> 00:15:15,500
as much information in this ever changing

287
00:15:15,500 --> 00:15:16,734
environment as we could.

288
00:15:16,767 --> 00:15:19,467
We've also participated in some of the regional discussions.

289
00:15:20,100 --> 00:15:23,867
We've looked at a number of ordinances, we've talked

290
00:15:23,867 --> 00:15:25,100
to those that come and talked with us.

291
00:15:25,767 --> 00:15:27,133
We've had some email exchanges.

292
00:15:28,066 --> 00:15:31,000
And then ultimately when we wrote this, we went back

293
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:32,233
to our existing codes.

294
00:15:32,767 --> 00:15:35,066
And that's one thing I wanted to explain,

295
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:36,467
what's divided in front of you?

296
00:15:38,133 --> 00:15:41,367
Oh, say that a little bit better with the way,

297
00:15:41,467 --> 00:15:42,734
not what's divided in front of you.

298
00:15:42,734 --> 00:15:45,634
The way that the draft Ordinance is divided

299
00:15:46,100 --> 00:15:48,133
is essentially in three sections.

300
00:15:48,700 --> 00:15:53,100
The first section was focused on conditional use itself.

301
00:15:53,934 --> 00:15:58,700
The second section is focused on what's called

302
00:15:58,700 --> 00:16:00,133
supplemental regulation.

303
00:16:00,634 --> 00:16:02,867
The difference is on conditional use.

304
00:16:03,066 --> 00:16:06,133
These are items that merit community discussion,

305
00:16:06,533 --> 00:16:11,033
community input into what can go focuses on the use itself.

306
00:16:11,634 --> 00:16:15,700
And that's what would come before this body.

307
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,033
And then also get approved by the board of Supervisors.

308
00:16:19,567 --> 00:16:20,934
Again, focus on the use.

309
00:16:20,934 --> 00:16:23,233
That's what condit the conditional use part is.

310
00:16:23,867 --> 00:16:26,667
The supplemental regulations are items that need

311
00:16:26,667 --> 00:16:29,033
to be followed regardless.

312
00:16:29,100 --> 00:16:31,300
You don't really wanna put those in front of a vote

313
00:16:31,300 --> 00:16:34,767
because they're things like provide an environmental study,

314
00:16:34,934 --> 00:16:36,867
like there are more engineering type items

315
00:16:36,934 --> 00:16:38,033
where they have to be met.

316
00:16:38,567 --> 00:16:41,767
And the way this is organized, it's not unlike a lot

317
00:16:41,767 --> 00:16:42,867
of conditional uses.

318
00:16:42,867 --> 00:16:46,000
We see the conditional use is tied to the submittal

319
00:16:46,033 --> 00:16:47,533
of the land development plan.

320
00:16:48,100 --> 00:16:50,300
Every property, every development has

321
00:16:50,367 --> 00:16:51,433
a land development plan.

322
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:53,900
The supplemental like regulations are things

323
00:16:53,900 --> 00:16:57,433
that you see along with the the land development plan.

324
00:16:57,433 --> 00:16:58,700
So just to kind of recap

325
00:16:58,767 --> 00:17:00,634
and be clear, the first part

326
00:17:00,634 --> 00:17:03,700
of the Ordinance is focused on the public input part.

327
00:17:04,066 --> 00:17:07,000
The second part is focused on things

328
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:08,667
that are still gonna be required,

329
00:17:09,367 --> 00:17:11,133
but they're specific to data centers.

330
00:17:12,066 --> 00:17:15,066
The third part of the Ordinance are things that apply

331
00:17:15,834 --> 00:17:19,000
across the board where, so we went into the,

332
00:17:19,133 --> 00:17:22,300
the Township Ordinance and updated it

333
00:17:22,300 --> 00:17:24,133
because it wasn't specific to data centers,

334
00:17:24,367 --> 00:17:28,367
but maybe it was proper, it was prompted by this discussion.

335
00:17:29,033 --> 00:17:32,300
So kind of keep that in mind as a way to stay organized.

336
00:17:32,300 --> 00:17:35,533
As we have this conversation in general,

337
00:17:35,734 --> 00:17:38,367
you'll still see the same type of format that we've

338
00:17:39,533 --> 00:17:41,500
been discussing all along, where we focus on

339
00:17:41,500 --> 00:17:43,300
what are the different types of data centers.

340
00:17:43,934 --> 00:17:46,133
We've tweaked our definitions partly

341
00:17:46,133 --> 00:17:47,500
to match the regional conversation.

342
00:17:47,634 --> 00:17:50,533
Partly to simplify, we basically have small, medium

343
00:17:51,867 --> 00:17:54,867
hyperscale large, just a discussion in terms

344
00:17:54,934 --> 00:17:57,266
of what's different for what's in front of you.

345
00:17:57,900 --> 00:18:00,066
For the most part it's formatting

346
00:18:00,700 --> 00:18:04,000
and just a few little language clarified.

347
00:18:04,266 --> 00:18:09,066
However, on page should be on page six for everybody.

348
00:18:09,900 --> 00:18:10,834
And that is in

349
00:18:11,066 --> 00:18:14,934
section one.

350
00:18:17,767 --> 00:18:19,734
It's not hugely different.

351
00:18:20,533 --> 00:18:23,100
What we had before was with the conditional use,

352
00:18:24,133 --> 00:18:27,467
we required a number of submittals with the conditional use

353
00:18:28,033 --> 00:18:30,367
that were related to the land development plan.

354
00:18:32,934 --> 00:18:34,500
So the landscaping

355
00:18:35,934 --> 00:18:39,033
and environmental analysis, elevations

356
00:18:39,066 --> 00:18:42,100
and site plans, those are all things that really belong,

357
00:18:43,033 --> 00:18:47,133
that they're better suited in supplemental regulations.

358
00:18:47,133 --> 00:18:49,133
So what we did was we kind of met it halfway

359
00:18:50,033 --> 00:18:52,266
and instead we put language as

360
00:18:53,900 --> 00:18:57,033
a preliminary sketch of landscaping plan,

361
00:18:57,333 --> 00:19:00,634
generally indicating how the proposed developmental needs.

362
00:19:01,433 --> 00:19:03,634
And it refers to the chapter, again,

363
00:19:03,634 --> 00:19:04,867
this language will be tweaked.

364
00:19:04,867 --> 00:19:06,266
This is a continuing conversation,

365
00:19:06,734 --> 00:19:08,233
but I just want everyone know I'm not,

366
00:19:08,667 --> 00:19:11,367
I wanna fast on this is this is what the change is.

367
00:19:12,100 --> 00:19:15,066
And then I, instead of saying submit environmental,

368
00:19:16,166 --> 00:19:17,867
environmental and community impact.

369
00:19:18,266 --> 00:19:20,433
So first of all, there's not really standards in our code

370
00:19:20,433 --> 00:19:21,634
yet for what that means.

371
00:19:22,033 --> 00:19:25,166
So it, I changed it to a preliminary analysis

372
00:19:25,166 --> 00:19:28,100
and general statement of anticipated environmental

373
00:19:28,433 --> 00:19:29,667
and community impact.

374
00:19:29,867 --> 00:19:32,767
And then I added, but substantive enough

375
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:34,900
to facilitate meaningful discussion

376
00:19:34,900 --> 00:19:36,066
of the proposed conditional use.

377
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,900
So meeting that we're sure we're asking for these things.

378
00:19:39,900 --> 00:19:41,667
Same with the site or the elevations,

379
00:19:41,867 --> 00:19:44,033
understanding it's at the sketch level when

380
00:19:44,033 --> 00:19:45,734
it's for conditional use.

381
00:19:45,900 --> 00:19:50,033
So it's enough to facilitate conversation here, enough

382
00:19:50,033 --> 00:19:53,700
to determine if it's valid for a conditional use.

383
00:19:54,033 --> 00:19:55,166
But then with the understanding

384
00:19:55,300 --> 00:19:58,667
and the paragraph underneath it that when

385
00:19:59,100 --> 00:20:01,867
say it does get approved, then when they come back

386
00:20:01,867 --> 00:20:03,734
with the required land development plan,

387
00:20:04,133 --> 00:20:07,033
those things will be submitted in their full

388
00:20:07,433 --> 00:20:08,634
entirety that meets the code.

389
00:20:09,033 --> 00:20:10,734
The landscaping again.

390
00:20:11,266 --> 00:20:14,266
And we'll further define this process, what we mean

391
00:20:14,266 --> 00:20:17,000
by this environmental and community impact analysis.

392
00:20:18,734 --> 00:20:22,467
And then again, more specific elevations and site plans.

393
00:20:23,066 --> 00:20:26,133
And that's actually a clarification I'd like to go back

394
00:20:26,133 --> 00:20:28,433
and do with other parts of the code

395
00:20:28,433 --> 00:20:29,900
or other conditional uses

396
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,467
because you're asking someone to do full engineering

397
00:20:32,767 --> 00:20:34,934
before they even know if the use is gonna be allowed.

398
00:20:35,333 --> 00:20:39,033
So that, that's the big, not that big if you think about it.

399
00:20:39,066 --> 00:20:41,500
But it is, it's impactful for the process.

400
00:20:42,100 --> 00:20:45,867
So that was the change then to say

401
00:20:45,867 --> 00:20:48,066
that a little slightly more precisely to save time,

402
00:20:48,066 --> 00:20:51,000
because staff has a beautiful PowerPoint presentation

403
00:20:51,567 --> 00:20:54,300
and in particular they're gonna focus on lighting noise.

404
00:20:55,667 --> 00:21:00,333
And you will see that we're hitting say, lighting, noise,

405
00:21:00,700 --> 00:21:05,100
def definitions, screening, construction,

406
00:21:05,834 --> 00:21:07,066
even the decommissioning.

407
00:21:07,700 --> 00:21:10,500
And with that, I'm going to turn this over to Steph.

408
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:16,100
- Thank you very much, Kim.

409
00:21:16,834 --> 00:21:19,900
So a quick refresher for those who may not be familiar

410
00:21:20,100 --> 00:21:23,867
with the conditional use process, a conditional use is

411
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,000
what is set aside for a use that is a permissible

412
00:21:27,033 --> 00:21:29,066
and legitimate use within a Zoning district.

413
00:21:29,066 --> 00:21:31,533
Something that is allowed

414
00:21:32,367 --> 00:21:34,767
but does require closer examination from

415
00:21:34,767 --> 00:21:35,900
the board of Supervisors.

416
00:21:37,133 --> 00:21:39,533
The use must meet express standards

417
00:21:39,533 --> 00:21:42,433
and criteria set forth in the Zoning Ordinance

418
00:21:42,433 --> 00:21:45,033
and be reviewed in a Public Hearing.

419
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,033
Basically just a little bit more review

420
00:21:47,533 --> 00:21:49,634
with additional specific conditions.

421
00:21:50,567 --> 00:21:54,066
The way that we have organized, as Kim went

422
00:21:55,066 --> 00:21:56,700
into in a little detail there,

423
00:21:57,433 --> 00:22:01,066
we have three general updates in this draft Ordinance.

424
00:22:01,066 --> 00:22:02,567
We have the conditions,

425
00:22:02,900 --> 00:22:04,367
we have the supplemental regulations,

426
00:22:04,367 --> 00:22:06,467
and we have the Township wide regulations.

427
00:22:08,100 --> 00:22:11,000
As said a minute ago, the conditions are going to be things

428
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,467
that are data center specific as well as project specific.

429
00:22:14,533 --> 00:22:17,867
They are going to be the main things discussed in a Public

430
00:22:17,867 --> 00:22:22,066
Hearing and the things that are going to change from project

431
00:22:22,133 --> 00:22:24,467
to project, the supplemental regulations,

432
00:22:24,467 --> 00:22:26,100
these are also data center specific,

433
00:22:26,266 --> 00:22:28,033
but they are much more performance based.

434
00:22:28,033 --> 00:22:30,533
They're much more engineering focused.

435
00:22:30,533 --> 00:22:31,867
They're not project specific.

436
00:22:32,033 --> 00:22:34,767
The reason they're separated is basically every project's

437
00:22:34,867 --> 00:22:36,000
going to have to meet these.

438
00:22:36,266 --> 00:22:39,700
We also have the Township wide regulations, which are going

439
00:22:39,767 --> 00:22:42,734
to be the things that as we were reviewing the concerns

440
00:22:42,734 --> 00:22:46,533
with data centers, we proposed updating

441
00:22:46,533 --> 00:22:47,934
throughout the whole Township.

442
00:22:52,133 --> 00:22:55,767
- Throughout the, the data center Ordinance draft,

443
00:22:56,066 --> 00:22:59,300
we focused on, on specific types

444
00:22:59,500 --> 00:23:01,166
of data data centers.

445
00:23:01,867 --> 00:23:04,667
In previous discussions, we have demonstrated

446
00:23:04,734 --> 00:23:07,166
that there are different types of data centers

447
00:23:07,300 --> 00:23:09,166
that require different types of approval.

448
00:23:10,166 --> 00:23:15,033
So For this specific Ordinance,

449
00:23:15,500 --> 00:23:19,634
we have drafted a, a three,

450
00:23:20,033 --> 00:23:23,367
three major scales of data center, which are small

451
00:23:23,467 --> 00:23:24,634
or accessory data centers.

452
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,266
These are small accessory data centers.

453
00:23:27,367 --> 00:23:32,100
We are defining them to be essentially server rooms

454
00:23:32,266 --> 00:23:36,834
or a small accessory structure as not,

455
00:23:36,834 --> 00:23:38,500
that does not require any,

456
00:23:39,166 --> 00:23:41,867
any other accessory structure such as generators

457
00:23:42,033 --> 00:23:44,133
or HVAC systems to be installed.

458
00:23:44,367 --> 00:23:46,734
So let's say a company wants

459
00:23:46,734 --> 00:23:49,700
to install a server room servers in their,

460
00:23:49,867 --> 00:23:51,066
in their, in their business.

461
00:23:51,500 --> 00:23:55,100
And those servers will not require additional infrastructure

462
00:23:55,033 --> 00:23:57,467
other than that's that, that already exists.

463
00:23:57,533 --> 00:23:59,133
That supports the, the, the business.

464
00:23:59,667 --> 00:24:03,000
Then these are considered small data centers.

465
00:24:03,500 --> 00:24:06,033
When a data center to that scale

466
00:24:06,634 --> 00:24:10,500
requires additional infrastructure such as generators,

467
00:24:10,934 --> 00:24:14,700
HVAC systems or cooling towers, we are going

468
00:24:14,700 --> 00:24:18,467
to require the same level of, of, of, of

469
00:24:20,233 --> 00:24:22,266
we're gonna, they're gonna have the same level

470
00:24:22,266 --> 00:24:24,634
of requirements as a medium scale data centers,

471
00:24:25,100 --> 00:24:27,767
which jumps me back with, which takes me to medium

472
00:24:27,934 --> 00:24:29,100
to large scale data centers.

473
00:24:29,734 --> 00:24:32,066
These are large, medium,

474
00:24:32,166 --> 00:24:35,133
and large scale data centers of data centers are in between

475
00:24:35,900 --> 00:24:40,100
5,000 to 999,000 square feet.

476
00:24:40,500 --> 00:24:43,000
So these data centers are going to be approved

477
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,767
and going to be permitted only within the industrial

478
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:47,100
and the light industrial

479
00:24:47,133 --> 00:24:49,467
and IRD district for

480
00:24:51,066 --> 00:24:52,500
hyperscale data centers

481
00:24:52,867 --> 00:24:54,533
and medium scale data centers

482
00:24:54,533 --> 00:24:56,033
through large scale data centers are going to be,

483
00:24:56,700 --> 00:24:58,734
are gonna go through the conditional use process,

484
00:24:59,734 --> 00:25:01,634
which was already explained by miles.

485
00:25:02,133 --> 00:25:05,100
Similarly, hyperscale data centers are going to go

486
00:25:05,100 --> 00:25:06,734
through a conditional use hearing.

487
00:25:06,900 --> 00:25:09,300
And those we have determined

488
00:25:09,300 --> 00:25:12,100
and defined to be any data center that is

489
00:25:12,100 --> 00:25:14,266
beyond 100,000 square feet

490
00:25:14,900 --> 00:25:17,066
and is on only going to be approved

491
00:25:17,667 --> 00:25:20,233
and within the industrial district.

492
00:25:24,100 --> 00:25:25,100
So

493
00:25:25,467 --> 00:25:27,834
- Before, before you move ahead, Mr.

494
00:25:27,900 --> 00:25:31,700
Chair, chair, how, how are, how do you wanna, wanna handle

495
00:25:32,266 --> 00:25:36,700
if, if, if there's some questions about what best percent

496
00:25:37,667 --> 00:25:39,000
do we deal with that now, now?

497
00:25:39,166 --> 00:25:42,033
Or do we deal with that with that at a later, later

498
00:25:42,700 --> 00:25:45,000
- Discussion, bill from the chair,

499
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,834
obviously I'll accept any suggestions from the board,

500
00:25:48,100 --> 00:25:49,100
but my preference would be

501
00:25:49,100 --> 00:25:52,567
to let staff make its presentation and then proceed

502
00:25:52,900 --> 00:25:56,700
and you have notes and wanna go back to something later.

503
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:02,000
But it, it, I think it will be a more fluid way

504
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:06,100
of pro pro proceeding if staff can make its presentation

505
00:26:07,133 --> 00:26:09,834
without, without being interrupted for questions.

506
00:26:10,734 --> 00:26:13,000
- Okay. Well then I'll hold my questions.

507
00:26:13,133 --> 00:26:14,367
- Thank you Mr. Chair.

508
00:26:16,100 --> 00:26:20,367
So more in depth with data center accessory use

509
00:26:20,533 --> 00:26:21,634
and hyperscale.

510
00:26:23,367 --> 00:26:27,100
As I mentioned, looking at the picture on the left side,

511
00:26:27,634 --> 00:26:31,100
a a, a proposal for a data center such

512
00:26:31,100 --> 00:26:32,734
as a small server room

513
00:26:33,300 --> 00:26:37,867
would not require any conditional use hearing would be a

514
00:26:38,033 --> 00:26:41,000
would be treated to be a Zoning permit application

515
00:26:41,233 --> 00:26:44,500
that would go straight for staff review.

516
00:26:45,133 --> 00:26:47,934
A data center of a medium large

517
00:26:48,100 --> 00:26:52,100
to hyperscale would definitely require here a hearing from,

518
00:26:52,567 --> 00:26:53,567
from the Township.

519
00:26:53,734 --> 00:26:55,033
And it will be, it would go

520
00:26:55,033 --> 00:26:56,367
through the conditional use approval

521
00:26:56,867 --> 00:26:58,934
and it will require all

522
00:26:58,934 --> 00:27:01,767
of the supplemental regulations including Township,

523
00:27:02,233 --> 00:27:05,066
Township wide regulations will be applicable to

524
00:27:05,500 --> 00:27:07,634
those data centers.

525
00:27:10,667 --> 00:27:14,834
In this, in this level, we,

526
00:27:15,033 --> 00:27:19,033
in this Ordinance, we drafted ordinances regarding noise.

527
00:27:20,100 --> 00:27:23,100
We currently have a noise Ordinance in the Township

528
00:27:23,533 --> 00:27:28,100
because a lot of the regulations within data centers have

529
00:27:28,100 --> 00:27:29,934
to refer back to the noise Ordinance.

530
00:27:30,066 --> 00:27:31,900
We had to make sure that the

531
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:36,867
or the noise Ordinance was to, was to, to,

532
00:27:36,934 --> 00:27:41,000
to the level that required a, that would meet the,

533
00:27:41,100 --> 00:27:43,166
that would meet the requirements of a data center.

534
00:27:43,767 --> 00:27:48,133
So in noise Ordinance, we have included elements such as

535
00:27:50,133 --> 00:27:52,266
sound modeling, vibration requirements,

536
00:27:52,367 --> 00:27:53,834
and natural sound barriers.

537
00:27:54,634 --> 00:27:59,000
For the noise studies specifically, we are requiring

538
00:27:59,133 --> 00:28:02,333
that the applicant of a data center prepare

539
00:28:02,367 --> 00:28:04,900
and propose a, a present, a pre

540
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:09,133
and post construction noise to establish a baseline for

541
00:28:09,166 --> 00:28:13,133
what, what the current noise levels exist in the,

542
00:28:13,133 --> 00:28:16,266
in the property and what the projected noise levels will be

543
00:28:17,867 --> 00:28:19,834
for when the construction is complete.

544
00:28:19,867 --> 00:28:22,367
And the, and the, and the data center starts operating

545
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,500
for some modeling it, some modeling will be the process

546
00:28:26,767 --> 00:28:30,100
by which the applicant will present it to the Township, a,

547
00:28:30,467 --> 00:28:31,634
a, a computer

548
00:28:31,767 --> 00:28:35,100
or a, a digital presentation of the, of the noise

549
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,266
or how the noise spreads into from the,

550
00:28:40,266 --> 00:28:42,533
from the point from the data center and abroad.

551
00:28:42,900 --> 00:28:45,834
So we are going to be seeing a visual image of

552
00:28:46,100 --> 00:28:49,066
how the noise propagates from the data center

553
00:28:49,133 --> 00:28:52,100
to the neighboring properties through this sound modeling.

554
00:28:52,700 --> 00:28:56,133
So vibration is also a, a vibration.

555
00:28:56,133 --> 00:29:00,300
The vibration Ordinance will have certain level of vibration

556
00:29:00,667 --> 00:29:04,133
that the Township will require to

557
00:29:04,533 --> 00:29:05,900
for the applicant to meet.

558
00:29:06,033 --> 00:29:08,834
And all of those elements, including the, the noise studies

559
00:29:09,033 --> 00:29:11,300
and sound modeling and vibration will have

560
00:29:11,300 --> 00:29:14,033
to follow the international standard organizations

561
00:29:14,667 --> 00:29:15,867
baselines that were established.

562
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,834
So that, so in, in that way that we will,

563
00:29:20,367 --> 00:29:23,667
those are the standards to which we are going to hold any,

564
00:29:23,767 --> 00:29:24,867
any of the applicants.

565
00:29:25,433 --> 00:29:29,033
So for sound barriers, we also establish on top of the,

566
00:29:29,500 --> 00:29:33,567
on top of setbacks we have established that a any applicant

567
00:29:33,634 --> 00:29:37,500
for, for us from medium to hyperscale data center, we have

568
00:29:37,500 --> 00:29:41,567
to establish a Setback of at least 1000 feet.

569
00:29:41,934 --> 00:29:45,000
And the sound barrier composed of vegetation

570
00:29:45,133 --> 00:29:48,100
of a 50 feet in, in width.

571
00:29:52,734 --> 00:29:56,266
In the Ordinance that we, that we drafted, we have included

572
00:29:56,667 --> 00:30:01,266
and addressed concerns regarding regarding low noise,

573
00:30:01,266 --> 00:30:02,500
noise, tunnel noise.

574
00:30:02,867 --> 00:30:07,567
And we also have, have prepared, prepared provisions

575
00:30:07,700 --> 00:30:10,433
for acoustical analysis require requirement

576
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,133
for the current Ordinance as, as it's written,

577
00:30:14,133 --> 00:30:17,133
written is not, not, does not not be addressed any,

578
00:30:17,500 --> 00:30:18,900
any concerns, concern below low,

579
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,033
below frequency tonal noise, noise.

580
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,300
So we, we make sure that the new, the draft

581
00:30:24,900 --> 00:30:27,266
included elements that would address those things.

582
00:30:28,033 --> 00:30:32,033
For, for low frequency noise.

583
00:30:34,100 --> 00:30:36,867
For low frequency noise, we have included element.

584
00:30:37,066 --> 00:30:39,333
We have incorporated element that would address a way

585
00:30:39,333 --> 00:30:43,700
to scale and c wave to scale to make sure that when a,

586
00:30:43,867 --> 00:30:48,000
a noise, when a noise produced by a, by a data center

587
00:30:48,734 --> 00:30:50,066
is measured through a a scale,

588
00:30:50,734 --> 00:30:54,700
the equivalent C scale level should not, should not be,

589
00:30:55,367 --> 00:30:59,867
should not be 10 decibel above the, the, the a scale,

590
00:31:02,133 --> 00:31:05,300
the a weighted noise measurement.

591
00:31:05,834 --> 00:31:09,533
So the, and then we also included Atherton requirement,

592
00:31:09,533 --> 00:31:13,133
which is an additional penalty to whether when a tunnel,

593
00:31:13,500 --> 00:31:16,500
when a tunnel noise is found to exist in a

594
00:31:16,900 --> 00:31:20,033
or is, is found to be emitted by a data center.

595
00:31:20,233 --> 00:31:23,500
An additional penalty of five decibel will be applicable to

596
00:31:24,066 --> 00:31:26,233
to, to meet the Township Ordinance

597
00:31:27,700 --> 00:31:30,500
and all of those to establish a tunnel

598
00:31:31,567 --> 00:31:34,266
to establish whether a tunnel noise exists or not.

599
00:31:34,767 --> 00:31:39,233
The Ordinance also as as written, is requiring that the,

600
00:31:39,300 --> 00:31:43,734
the applicant hire a, a, a,

601
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:48,567
a engineer or a professional specialized in the acoustical

602
00:31:48,900 --> 00:31:52,066
engineering to establish whether Atherton noise, atonal

603
00:31:52,734 --> 00:31:54,100
noise is being emitted.

604
00:31:54,367 --> 00:31:56,100
And once that is determined,

605
00:31:56,133 --> 00:31:59,333
then the applicable five decibel penalty is applied.

606
00:32:03,767 --> 00:32:08,300
- Thank you p. In terms of the lighting requirements

607
00:32:08,300 --> 00:32:11,433
that we have for data centers,

608
00:32:11,900 --> 00:32:14,100
we have 'em divided into those four conditions

609
00:32:14,166 --> 00:32:15,667
and supplemental regulations.

610
00:32:16,066 --> 00:32:20,667
The conditions create an allowance for the vast size

611
00:32:20,900 --> 00:32:22,767
and challenges of lighting.

612
00:32:23,867 --> 00:32:27,900
The supplemental regulations ha include a

613
00:32:28,233 --> 00:32:30,867
correlated color temperature for those

614
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:32,500
who are less familiar.

615
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,900
That's the warmth for coolness of the light.

616
00:32:37,300 --> 00:32:41,100
On the right side there we have a graphic that shows the

617
00:32:41,934 --> 00:32:46,333
3000 kelvin maximum that we have

618
00:32:46,333 --> 00:32:47,333
for outdoor lighting.

619
00:32:48,667 --> 00:32:52,300
That maximum comes from dark sky ordinances that

620
00:32:53,367 --> 00:32:56,934
make things easier for nocturnal wildlife.

621
00:32:57,066 --> 00:32:58,533
It creates less light pollution

622
00:32:58,734 --> 00:33:02,467
and it's less disturbing to people living in the area

623
00:33:02,900 --> 00:33:03,934
as well as requirements

624
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,867
for automatic lighting controls at night.

625
00:33:07,033 --> 00:33:09,533
Something that like when people are walking

626
00:33:09,700 --> 00:33:12,767
by will activate things will light up as opposed

627
00:33:12,767 --> 00:33:14,934
to emitting constant light all the time.

628
00:33:17,767 --> 00:33:21,133
In terms of requirements for utilities,

629
00:33:22,033 --> 00:33:25,066
there are requirements for written documentation stating

630
00:33:25,066 --> 00:33:27,867
that there is sufficient capacity from the public water

631
00:33:27,867 --> 00:33:30,867
utility provider, from the public sanitary sewer system,

632
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:32,900
from the electric utility provider

633
00:33:32,900 --> 00:33:34,567
and the internet utility provider.

634
00:33:36,233 --> 00:33:38,367
This empowers the utility providers

635
00:33:38,367 --> 00:33:40,133
to have a clear step in the process

636
00:33:40,467 --> 00:33:42,166
to communicate with the applicants.

637
00:33:43,767 --> 00:33:47,867
We also make allowances saying that for the data centers,

638
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,233
there's no surface water extractions

639
00:33:50,233 --> 00:33:53,934
that the water source must be from the public water utility

640
00:33:54,166 --> 00:33:57,834
provider and the water must go out

641
00:33:57,934 --> 00:34:00,166
through a public sanitary sewer system.

642
00:34:00,767 --> 00:34:03,333
This is how we currently have the Ordinance written

643
00:34:03,567 --> 00:34:05,667
for all other industrial uses

644
00:34:06,033 --> 00:34:08,734
for the wastewater going out.

645
00:34:11,100 --> 00:34:12,667
The other requirements

646
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,166
that are included in the draft Ordinance are bulk

647
00:34:16,166 --> 00:34:18,233
requirements including Setback

648
00:34:18,300 --> 00:34:22,567
and height requirements with a $1,000 Setback for any

649
00:34:23,367 --> 00:34:25,066
equipment or part of the building

650
00:34:25,333 --> 00:34:27,100
to the nearest residential use

651
00:34:29,867 --> 00:34:34,700
square foot, I apologize, feet thank you.

652
00:34:35,066 --> 00:34:39,467
As well as a 45 foot height limit in terms

653
00:34:39,634 --> 00:34:44,100
of waste, there's requirements for any necessary state

654
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,834
or federal permits for any hazardous waste as well

655
00:34:46,834 --> 00:34:49,233
as the submittal of an electronic waste plan

656
00:34:49,266 --> 00:34:50,567
for any electronic waste.

657
00:34:50,900 --> 00:34:54,066
There's a requirement to submit a decommissioning plan,

658
00:34:54,467 --> 00:34:57,100
including details of site restoration

659
00:34:58,333 --> 00:35:00,900
should they achieve the site as well

660
00:35:00,900 --> 00:35:02,667
as any waste disposal in that process.

661
00:35:03,867 --> 00:35:05,834
There's also a requirement to work

662
00:35:05,834 --> 00:35:08,066
with local emergency services to ensure

663
00:35:08,066 --> 00:35:09,233
that they have access

664
00:35:09,500 --> 00:35:14,100
and have established emergency procedures and with any use.

665
00:35:14,033 --> 00:35:17,000
We have also included the parking requirements in chapter

666
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,033
22 Chair.

667
00:35:20,133 --> 00:35:22,066
That's all we have to present for now.

668
00:35:22,834 --> 00:35:24,333
Please let us know what questions you have.

669
00:35:25,066 --> 00:35:26,667
- Okay. Thank you.

670
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,066
All three who have made presentations

671
00:35:32,834 --> 00:35:34,166
we're, as I indicated

672
00:35:34,166 --> 00:35:37,634
before, we're going to start by with the members of the,

673
00:35:37,700 --> 00:35:39,467
of the planning commission.

674
00:35:40,133 --> 00:35:43,767
I want to make a preliminary comment for members

675
00:35:43,834 --> 00:35:45,500
of the planning commission understand this,

676
00:35:45,934 --> 00:35:48,066
but so that the public realizes it

677
00:35:48,634 --> 00:35:50,533
under current Pennsylvania law

678
00:35:51,700 --> 00:35:55,066
prohibiting data center is not as a permitted use,

679
00:35:55,033 --> 00:35:56,300
is not an option.

680
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,934
We, we need to provide,

681
00:36:00,266 --> 00:36:03,467
or I shouldn't say this, it is imperative that,

682
00:36:03,467 --> 00:36:04,533
that we provide in our

683
00:36:04,667 --> 00:36:09,066
or Ordinance a data

684
00:36:09,367 --> 00:36:13,133
as a committee use in some, in some district,

685
00:36:15,033 --> 00:36:19,367
if we did not, would be considered exclusionary Zoning as

686
00:36:20,033 --> 00:36:21,634
defined by, by our Supreme Court.

687
00:36:22,266 --> 00:36:26,500
And that would lead to a terrible

688
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:28,734
situation which would permit,

689
00:36:28,734 --> 00:36:31,066
permit the developer the option of,

690
00:36:31,100 --> 00:36:33,533
of probably would putting their data center

691
00:36:34,033 --> 00:36:36,000
wherever they wanted within the municipality.

692
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:43,066
I think by the preparation of this Ordinance

693
00:36:43,100 --> 00:36:46,867
and the presentation of today as the first draft, we have

694
00:36:47,433 --> 00:36:48,533
crossed a hurdle

695
00:36:49,700 --> 00:36:52,467
and that, in my opinion,

696
00:36:54,033 --> 00:36:56,700
from a prior life, in my opinion,

697
00:36:57,734 --> 00:37:02,500
we now are protected against a claim of exclusionary Zoning.

698
00:37:03,066 --> 00:37:06,533
And so I I think having,

699
00:37:06,567 --> 00:37:09,000
this is a very important first step.

700
00:37:09,767 --> 00:37:13,133
Have we said that now turn to the members

701
00:37:13,300 --> 00:37:16,533
of the planning commission for questions or comments.

702
00:37:17,367 --> 00:37:21,634
And I don't have any particular suggestions how to proceed.

703
00:37:21,667 --> 00:37:23,533
So it's up to you folks.

704
00:37:25,700 --> 00:37:27,433
I, I could could start,

705
00:37:27,834 --> 00:37:31,834
we could go down the road.

706
00:37:32,066 --> 00:37:35,066
Miles chair, I believe Ms. Holiday has her hand raised.

707
00:37:35,333 --> 00:37:39,100
Oh, okay. Then as a Shannon, you're a good person.

708
00:37:39,133 --> 00:37:41,300
Just to get us started, go right ahead.

709
00:37:43,100 --> 00:37:46,734
- Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

710
00:37:47,066 --> 00:37:50,233
Thank you very much staff

711
00:37:50,500 --> 00:37:54,433
for providing this very thorough study.

712
00:37:55,100 --> 00:37:58,266
I think you all did a very good job with gathering

713
00:37:58,634 --> 00:38:01,066
and doing the research and gathering the data.

714
00:38:01,900 --> 00:38:05,467
That's, that's a sufficient amount of data to present to us

715
00:38:06,767 --> 00:38:08,367
as we were going through.

716
00:38:09,100 --> 00:38:13,233
While I do understand Mr. Chair, Mr.

717
00:38:13,667 --> 00:38:17,734
Chairman, that you know, we can't, you know, due to the law,

718
00:38:18,100 --> 00:38:22,233
we can't just exclude things on us.

719
00:38:23,133 --> 00:38:27,634
I do have, I do have a few concerns if, if, if, if, if,

720
00:38:27,667 --> 00:38:31,667
if I may, I,

721
00:38:33,767 --> 00:38:37,000
I, being a Hurricane Katrina survivor

722
00:38:40,266 --> 00:38:44,834
have been diagnosed with severe anxiety disorder.

723
00:38:45,066 --> 00:38:46,266
Not for the most part.

724
00:38:47,100 --> 00:38:48,667
I'm gonna be honest, I was a little offended,

725
00:38:49,300 --> 00:38:51,233
especially when they told me about depression.

726
00:38:51,233 --> 00:38:53,734
I, I'm pretty happy be person,

727
00:38:53,934 --> 00:38:56,033
but regardless of what's going on in my life,

728
00:38:57,634 --> 00:39:02,233
but nevertheless, that was what was the diagnosis was

729
00:39:03,033 --> 00:39:07,133
in addition, life happened a bit more as I lived out here

730
00:39:07,867 --> 00:39:10,867
and I was found myself in a, in a situation

731
00:39:10,867 --> 00:39:15,133
where I was very ended, suffered, triple the questions have

732
00:39:15,900 --> 00:39:18,133
in the right ear, but this ear is

733
00:39:18,133 --> 00:39:19,900
extremely sensitive to sound.

734
00:39:21,133 --> 00:39:24,734
And in addition to that, as, as most of you all know, I walk

735
00:39:24,734 --> 00:39:26,567
with a cane now because of the,

736
00:39:27,433 --> 00:39:30,734
because of being off balance since having my

737
00:39:31,900 --> 00:39:36,066
Strock surgery, a major surgery as will

738
00:39:37,266 --> 00:39:40,634
and have a titanium plate put in, in sort

739
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,133
my, I'm saying of that to say,

740
00:39:45,133 --> 00:39:49,100
because this is my build ordinarily

741
00:39:50,100 --> 00:39:55,000
if regardless of my tone right, when I'm speaking,

742
00:39:56,367 --> 00:39:58,000
there are times

743
00:39:58,500 --> 00:40:02,033
and it is episodic when I'm talking with someone

744
00:40:03,867 --> 00:40:07,367
and it's based on the acoustics of the building

745
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:09,100
or wherever we are.

746
00:40:09,767 --> 00:40:12,867
Sometimes the person, they may be talking low,

747
00:40:13,066 --> 00:40:17,266
but their voice bounced off the wall and hit my in the ear

748
00:40:17,634 --> 00:40:19,734
and it makes me fool to do like this.

749
00:40:20,533 --> 00:40:22,667
And I'm like, and and the more they talk,

750
00:40:22,734 --> 00:40:23,934
the boy, the boy hurt.

751
00:40:24,100 --> 00:40:26,934
It is like a, it is like a not, it is like a,

752
00:40:27,300 --> 00:40:32,000
it's kind really pain, but it's, it is an a, if you will

753
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,900
because it's like, it's a, did somebody have a, oh

754
00:40:35,934 --> 00:40:38,133
what you call it, what you call that, that you holler

755
00:40:38,133 --> 00:40:42,533
through looking thing

756
00:40:42,900 --> 00:40:44,000
that you, that you talk to.

757
00:40:44,033 --> 00:40:45,533
It is like somebody had one of them.

758
00:40:46,066 --> 00:40:48,567
I directly in my hip, even though they're not,

759
00:40:48,567 --> 00:40:51,000
they may not be building.

760
00:40:51,133 --> 00:40:52,734
This is, this is why I'm saying this.

761
00:40:53,700 --> 00:40:56,734
I thought about that when we were go on.

762
00:40:58,667 --> 00:41:01,634
And I also thought about people

763
00:41:01,867 --> 00:41:04,166
who may be on the spectrum, right?

764
00:41:05,100 --> 00:41:09,634
There are vibrations that a person

765
00:41:09,900 --> 00:41:14,500
who has a maybe a DA like myself

766
00:41:15,066 --> 00:41:19,367
or who may be on the spectrum or a DHD

767
00:41:19,500 --> 00:41:24,266
or a DD, just certain things that some people may have

768
00:41:25,634 --> 00:41:30,133
an an, an extraordinary sensitivity to

769
00:41:30,667 --> 00:41:35,100
that ordinarily we may not have a sensitivity to.

770
00:41:37,133 --> 00:41:40,233
And it could, it could cause it could cause steming,

771
00:41:40,567 --> 00:41:44,634
whether it's a child or whether it's an adult, right?

772
00:41:45,867 --> 00:41:48,133
I'm saying that to say what I think about,

773
00:41:48,533 --> 00:41:52,000
even though I understand that there's a noise Ordinance,

774
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,000
you know, there's the natural sound area,

775
00:41:55,867 --> 00:42:00,100
there's the noise sub, there are vibration requirements

776
00:42:00,266 --> 00:42:01,734
and, and so forth.

777
00:42:02,166 --> 00:42:05,634
The, I I understand an al analysis,

778
00:42:06,066 --> 00:42:09,367
my concern will remain whether

779
00:42:09,667 --> 00:42:13,533
or not with all of these things in place,

780
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:19,166
whether or not that might still affect people like Shannon

781
00:42:19,166 --> 00:42:21,734
Holiday who's hearing impaired

782
00:42:23,066 --> 00:42:24,467
extra sensitive in this ear.

783
00:42:24,634 --> 00:42:28,266
And here's the other thing, it is, I don't work hearing aid,

784
00:42:29,100 --> 00:42:32,133
but it's a wall of hearing aid, right?

785
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,100
People who are hearing aid is even more sensitive

786
00:42:36,100 --> 00:42:39,100
to the sound extra hard.

787
00:42:40,100 --> 00:42:42,000
Those are sensitive to the sound.

788
00:42:42,467 --> 00:42:46,533
But just wonder how might these things affect the group

789
00:42:46,667 --> 00:42:50,100
of people who I am taught, who I just mentioned.

790
00:42:50,867 --> 00:42:52,000
That is my concern.

791
00:42:52,333 --> 00:42:56,033
My concern is, and I know it is false, you know,

792
00:42:56,433 --> 00:42:58,500
it may be farfetched, it may not be farfetched,

793
00:42:58,567 --> 00:43:02,000
but one factor concerns me

794
00:43:02,567 --> 00:43:05,000
because I never just made it about Shannon.

795
00:43:05,266 --> 00:43:06,533
I'm always looking out,

796
00:43:06,700 --> 00:43:09,867
I'm always making it about the greater good, the, you know,

797
00:43:09,900 --> 00:43:10,934
for the good or a beat.

798
00:43:11,333 --> 00:43:13,066
And I'm just really concerned.

799
00:43:13,333 --> 00:43:16,266
I, I'm wondering whether, what if

800
00:43:16,367 --> 00:43:20,500
that have a negative effect on kids, right?

801
00:43:20,667 --> 00:43:23,033
Because they feel the vibration, those

802
00:43:23,100 --> 00:43:24,266
who may be on the spectrum

803
00:43:24,700 --> 00:43:29,367
or those who may have some sort of hyper diagnosed, hyper

804
00:43:30,033 --> 00:43:31,266
sensitivity in some way,

805
00:43:32,700 --> 00:43:35,066
or somebody like me who's here in repair,

806
00:43:35,133 --> 00:43:39,033
but has an extraordinary sensitivity in my right ear,

807
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:40,734
which doesn't, I mean my left ear,

808
00:43:40,767 --> 00:43:43,567
which doesn't require hearing date, right?

809
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,567
So I just wonder about all of these things

810
00:43:47,133 --> 00:43:51,266
and if we should experience some

811
00:43:53,567 --> 00:43:56,500
disturbance within ourselves, people

812
00:43:56,500 --> 00:43:59,133
who are on the spectrum stem as, as a result

813
00:43:59,166 --> 00:44:02,066
of the data center, depending on, on the size of

814
00:44:03,100 --> 00:44:04,634
the vibrations over have you,

815
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,834
or with the light, you with the controls on light.

816
00:44:08,767 --> 00:44:09,834
I'm wondering whether

817
00:44:10,066 --> 00:44:12,667
or not the other would be some sort of

818
00:44:15,433 --> 00:44:18,066
exception that could appease.

819
00:44:19,100 --> 00:44:22,934
But if we don't have a, I know we, we gotta have one,

820
00:44:24,066 --> 00:44:27,000
but if we don't have data, none of that to worry about,

821
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:29,834
but we don't know.

822
00:44:30,333 --> 00:44:35,000
And so my concern is that what if what works in

823
00:44:35,133 --> 00:44:37,367
for people, would there be an exception

824
00:44:37,433 --> 00:44:39,433
or an adjustment of her exception

825
00:44:39,433 --> 00:44:43,934
or an adjustment made despite the things that

826
00:44:43,934 --> 00:44:45,000
that was laid out to today?

827
00:44:45,367 --> 00:44:47,266
That's not my concern. That, that's my question.

828
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:53,433
- Thank you. I don't know if has comments,

829
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:57,033
comments or certain thoughts

830
00:44:57,033 --> 00:44:59,133
and comments will be taken into consideration.

831
00:44:59,667 --> 00:45:04,066
Thank you. Thank you. Any other, any other members

832
00:45:04,066 --> 00:45:05,000
of planning commission?

833
00:45:05,266 --> 00:45:07,934
Planning commission have questions or comments? Or comments?

834
00:45:12,033 --> 00:45:15,734
- We talked about the hundred square feet. Square feet.

835
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:19,133
My concern is down the line when they get the same,

836
00:45:19,433 --> 00:45:24,100
same amount of generation power, smaller area has,

837
00:45:24,266 --> 00:45:25,266
has, have we looked at,

838
00:45:25,467 --> 00:45:28,433
at what's happening happening 3, 5, 10

839
00:45:28,433 --> 00:45:29,567
years down below the line.

840
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:35,266
- The current scale require requirements that we have here,

841
00:45:35,367 --> 00:45:39,500
here for impact required require the same

842
00:45:40,033 --> 00:45:43,367
condition use process for data center center between

843
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,834
5,000 GFGA to the

844
00:45:49,033 --> 00:45:52,000
9 999 9,000 9 990 99 9.

845
00:45:52,033 --> 00:45:55,700
The biggest difference between these two is the district

846
00:45:55,734 --> 00:45:59,133
that they are permitted in the IRD versus industrial.

847
00:45:59,567 --> 00:46:03,433
But if they can meet the conditional use requirements

848
00:46:04,133 --> 00:46:07,000
with future technology, then so the,

849
00:46:07,100 --> 00:46:08,133
the only way they would be able

850
00:46:08,133 --> 00:46:11,233
to bypass the conditional use process is if they were able

851
00:46:11,233 --> 00:46:14,033
to both have a data center

852
00:46:14,066 --> 00:46:16,867
that is less than five dozen square feet as well

853
00:46:16,867 --> 00:46:19,166
as not have any accessory structures.

854
00:46:19,166 --> 00:46:22,066
So that's no generators, that's no water towers

855
00:46:22,834 --> 00:46:26,934
and ideally very limited impact on the surrounding area.

856
00:46:27,700 --> 00:46:29,266
- But it would be possible in the future

857
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:33,133
for a hyperscale center to go into the IRD

858
00:46:34,133 --> 00:46:35,333
if it's a smaller building.

859
00:46:37,300 --> 00:46:41,433
- But Mike, I I think that that definition of wood side,

860
00:46:41,533 --> 00:46:44,767
it is based on the size as opposed to

861
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:49,033
what its capacity to do.

862
00:46:49,667 --> 00:46:51,033
Am I correct? That's correct.

863
00:46:51,734 --> 00:46:55,166
So I mean, if you could put into the 20,000 square feet,

864
00:46:55,734 --> 00:46:59,166
what today would take a hundred thousand square feet,

865
00:47:00,900 --> 00:47:04,133
that would bring it into a, a different category.

866
00:47:04,233 --> 00:47:06,567
Even though it has the capacity of

867
00:47:06,834 --> 00:47:09,300
what today would be a bigger one. Is that clear?

868
00:47:10,033 --> 00:47:11,133
- But we could get the noise

869
00:47:11,233 --> 00:47:14,000
and the vibration in that smaller building then

870
00:47:15,467 --> 00:47:17,767
that's now at a hundred thousand square fair.

871
00:47:20,033 --> 00:47:22,767
- The noise and vibration are

872
00:47:23,233 --> 00:47:27,567
the noise vibration studies are all required for, for all

873
00:47:27,567 --> 00:47:30,066
of the, the data centers starting from

874
00:47:31,300 --> 00:47:32,567
5,000 square feet.

875
00:47:32,834 --> 00:47:34,033
So they will all go

876
00:47:34,100 --> 00:47:35,700
and be treated the same way

877
00:47:35,900 --> 00:47:38,066
as if there were large scale data centers.

878
00:47:38,266 --> 00:47:40,033
In that, in that, in that regard,

879
00:47:40,266 --> 00:47:43,300
the only difference is which district there are

880
00:47:43,300 --> 00:47:44,634
permitted to be in.

881
00:47:47,500 --> 00:47:51,634
- And I, the other thing is my old age, I got very cynical.

882
00:47:52,333 --> 00:47:56,467
The person who's doing it notes here,

883
00:47:57,033 --> 00:47:59,066
who does the sound modeling

884
00:47:59,300 --> 00:48:04,266
and the sound, my, my cynicism is if the company,

885
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,634
the applicant is hiring the person,

886
00:48:08,066 --> 00:48:09,867
they may get the answer that they want.

887
00:48:10,934 --> 00:48:12,266
So my concern is

888
00:48:12,266 --> 00:48:14,367
that we don't say it's an independent person

889
00:48:14,634 --> 00:48:16,767
or someone agreeable to the Township.

890
00:48:18,133 --> 00:48:22,066
- I understand the concern, the Pennsylvania

891
00:48:23,500 --> 00:48:26,000
Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, when,

892
00:48:27,100 --> 00:48:31,734
when they approved an engineer to do a study, we hold

893
00:48:31,734 --> 00:48:34,634
that engineer specifically whether a firm hired

894
00:48:34,867 --> 00:48:37,333
by the applicant or by anybody.

895
00:48:37,700 --> 00:48:42,133
The engineer's license is on the line to show, to be,

896
00:48:42,266 --> 00:48:45,667
to be compliant, to be ethical and,

897
00:48:45,667 --> 00:48:47,266
and show accurate results.

898
00:48:47,266 --> 00:48:51,133
Because if an engineer is, is hired to do a a job,

899
00:48:51,233 --> 00:48:53,066
they're not going, they know

900
00:48:53,066 --> 00:48:54,567
that their license is on the line.

901
00:48:54,700 --> 00:48:56,000
Right? They're not going

902
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:59,433
to be appeasing anybody in, in any regard.

903
00:49:00,500 --> 00:49:04,100
Additionally, there are, we put in place

904
00:49:05,533 --> 00:49:08,567
provisions in the Ordinance for the Township to,

905
00:49:08,767 --> 00:49:13,133
to have the right to hire a third party in case

906
00:49:14,634 --> 00:49:18,934
for any reason that the board and the planning commission or

907
00:49:19,500 --> 00:49:24,233
or residents may find necessary to hire third party in,

908
00:49:24,367 --> 00:49:27,133
in any study that that, that that has been done.

909
00:49:27,166 --> 00:49:27,900
- Okay, great.

910
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:37,333
- I have a question about the slide that's up now.

911
00:49:37,634 --> 00:49:41,533
Actually, there was a note on page four of the memo

912
00:49:41,634 --> 00:49:45,467
underneath this graphic that said it needs to be considered

913
00:49:45,467 --> 00:49:48,266
that the IRD district is intended for compatibility

914
00:49:48,266 --> 00:49:50,767
with office and surrounding residential and is

915
00:49:50,767 --> 00:49:53,834
therefore not suitable for large scale higher

916
00:49:53,867 --> 00:49:54,867
impact data centers.

917
00:49:55,266 --> 00:49:58,934
And that we have IRD for large scale data centers.

918
00:49:59,066 --> 00:50:02,300
So it just was curious if you could explain the rationale

919
00:50:02,300 --> 00:50:06,233
behind leaving large scale data centers as part of the IRD

920
00:50:07,467 --> 00:50:10,033
- Kim - Probably should have said hyperscale.

921
00:50:10,033 --> 00:50:12,767
Hyperscale to differentiate. Differentiate.

922
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:16,467
Thank you for pointing that out. Pointing

923
00:50:16,467 --> 00:50:17,467
- That out.

924
00:50:17,467 --> 00:50:19,066
- Thank you. So that, that was that typo.

925
00:50:19,066 --> 00:50:21,033
That typo, correct.

926
00:50:23,667 --> 00:50:27,300
- Okay. Thank you. - Okay.

927
00:50:31,300 --> 00:50:33,500
Any questions over to my web? To my web?

928
00:50:34,734 --> 00:50:36,233
- Yeah, I've got a I've got your question

929
00:50:37,133 --> 00:50:39,700
and I don't know who to ask really, but,

930
00:50:39,867 --> 00:50:44,533
but the, the water data uses isn't,

931
00:50:44,634 --> 00:50:47,333
isn't, it isn't changed.

932
00:50:48,066 --> 00:50:50,734
Use, use cooling is my understand. Right? Right.

933
00:50:50,934 --> 00:50:53,100
So it shouldn't, shouldn't have to go go through

934
00:50:54,834 --> 00:50:57,667
to UAA towards to a treatment plant.

935
00:50:58,700 --> 00:51:00,100
Is there anything that would

936
00:51:01,467 --> 00:51:03,700
prevent them from injecting that?

937
00:51:05,100 --> 00:51:08,133
It it is un it's unchanged water.

938
00:51:08,133 --> 00:51:09,567
It's what comes outta the ground.

939
00:51:09,667 --> 00:51:11,000
It's used to cool the equipment.

940
00:51:11,500 --> 00:51:13,700
Could they inject that back into the ground?

941
00:51:15,100 --> 00:51:17,133
And I mean, you know, the, the,

942
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:19,133
the region has talked about doing that with,

943
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:20,133
with our wastewater.

944
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:25,367
Is there anything in the Centre Region

945
00:51:25,367 --> 00:51:28,934
that would prevent them from injecting that back in a,

946
00:51:29,934 --> 00:51:31,567
in a well in an injection?

947
00:51:31,734 --> 00:51:32,734
Well,

948
00:51:33,533 --> 00:51:35,934
- I'd like the opportunity to speak

949
00:51:35,934 --> 00:51:38,266
with the Township engineer on the specifics of that.

950
00:51:38,467 --> 00:51:42,500
However, this is in line with the,

951
00:51:43,266 --> 00:51:47,834
with the state recommendation on handling wastewater as well

952
00:51:47,834 --> 00:51:51,166
as the, from data centers as well as the Chester County

953
00:51:51,333 --> 00:51:53,900
and Allegheny County sample data centers.

954
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:58,934
But I would be, I'll absolutely dig into the

955
00:52:00,100 --> 00:52:01,433
specifics of what the water coming

956
00:52:01,433 --> 00:52:02,567
out of the data center looks like.

957
00:52:03,634 --> 00:52:05,667
- Yeah, because you know, UAA,

958
00:52:05,867 --> 00:52:08,133
I mean the center region's problem isn't

959
00:52:08,133 --> 00:52:09,367
that we don't have enough water.

960
00:52:10,133 --> 00:52:14,033
It's the discharge of the water because, and,

961
00:52:14,033 --> 00:52:16,100
and it's not even that we can't treat it.

962
00:52:16,233 --> 00:52:19,734
The problem is that when it leaves UAJ, it's too warm

963
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:21,300
to put into Spring Creek,

964
00:52:21,300 --> 00:52:23,066
which is a high quality trout stream.

965
00:52:24,066 --> 00:52:26,266
And so that's, that's really our,

966
00:52:26,300 --> 00:52:30,066
our limit in the Centre Region is how do we dispose

967
00:52:30,100 --> 00:52:33,166
of the water that that comes outta UAJA

968
00:52:33,300 --> 00:52:37,033
and the, the boroughs treatment plant.

969
00:52:38,266 --> 00:52:40,166
It, I I just struck me, it's like

970
00:52:40,900 --> 00:52:42,533
they don't really change this water.

971
00:52:42,667 --> 00:52:45,133
They don't, they use it for cooling

972
00:52:45,033 --> 00:52:48,266
and then why couldn't they put it right back in the ground?

973
00:52:49,100 --> 00:52:50,133
No, no. Net loss

974
00:52:50,133 --> 00:52:54,033
of water, Ralph.

975
00:52:54,367 --> 00:52:59,000
One of the things that I've heard in terms of this,

976
00:52:59,300 --> 00:53:00,700
the, the water needs

977
00:53:01,533 --> 00:53:04,900
and cooling is that in some cases

978
00:53:06,133 --> 00:53:10,300
they're looking at the water cooling process

979
00:53:11,133 --> 00:53:14,634
as having direct contact with some of the hardware.

980
00:53:16,300 --> 00:53:20,867
And the issue of picking up chemicals in

981
00:53:20,867 --> 00:53:24,233
that process there is, there's actually some, some

982
00:53:25,734 --> 00:53:28,867
sites where they're talking about having

983
00:53:30,467 --> 00:53:34,233
in the near future, the actual hardware

984
00:53:35,367 --> 00:53:39,934
boards be able to be submersible so

985
00:53:39,934 --> 00:53:41,166
that the water that the,

986
00:53:41,300 --> 00:53:45,367
the cooling happens right within the machine as opposed to

987
00:53:46,100 --> 00:53:50,834
having to go to air conditioning as you know,

988
00:53:50,867 --> 00:53:53,333
or water in some way.

989
00:53:53,700 --> 00:53:57,100
So it appears to me that the technology,

990
00:53:57,166 --> 00:53:59,433
which is like changing yesterday,

991
00:54:01,333 --> 00:54:04,467
has already thought about this whole business of

992
00:54:04,467 --> 00:54:05,500
what to do with water.

993
00:54:07,233 --> 00:54:10,033
And they're coming up with, with

994
00:54:11,233 --> 00:54:15,867
solutions in terms of cooling that involve the water,

995
00:54:16,634 --> 00:54:18,533
actually having some contact.

996
00:54:19,033 --> 00:54:21,033
I don't know what, I'm not a scientist

997
00:54:22,133 --> 00:54:23,934
with the actual hardware

998
00:54:25,133 --> 00:54:29,000
and in that case, picking up some of the chemical residue.

999
00:54:30,133 --> 00:54:32,100
That is why, you know, one of the things that

1000
00:54:33,433 --> 00:54:34,567
has come up lately lately,

1001
00:54:42,133 --> 00:54:45,066
- Lisa, - Just, just, I just had just have a couple

1002
00:54:45,567 --> 00:54:47,133
questions I guess, I guess before we get into that today,

1003
00:54:47,166 --> 00:54:49,500
I'll start, I'll start with with water.

1004
00:54:49,500 --> 00:54:51,634
Water maybe, maybe 'cause we're just talking about about,

1005
00:54:54,266 --> 00:54:58,367
so there weren't like absolute metrics

1006
00:54:59,033 --> 00:55:02,533
and the water, water piece like a, a proposed water

1007
00:55:02,900 --> 00:55:05,133
or electric electricity consumption.

1008
00:55:05,467 --> 00:55:09,533
So is that that something that could be part

1009
00:55:09,567 --> 00:55:10,667
of the conditions?

1010
00:55:13,100 --> 00:55:16,867
- The closest example that I saw for

1011
00:55:16,867 --> 00:55:19,133
that was requirements for

1012
00:55:21,567 --> 00:55:23,734
changing topics slightly electric utility

1013
00:55:24,133 --> 00:55:27,133
of if they consume a certain amount of power,

1014
00:55:27,066 --> 00:55:29,500
then there are these additional requirements that

1015
00:55:30,367 --> 00:55:32,266
a certain amount of it might be solar.

1016
00:55:32,867 --> 00:55:37,834
But in terms of putting hard caps,

1017
00:55:40,500 --> 00:55:43,867
I think we're very limited in

1018
00:55:44,533 --> 00:55:45,934
what we can impose

1019
00:55:46,233 --> 00:55:47,233
- And I Right.

1020
00:55:47,233 --> 00:55:51,500
And I wouldn't say that, you know, the board would be in a,

1021
00:55:51,867 --> 00:55:53,500
a place to impose caps on that.

1022
00:55:53,533 --> 00:55:58,300
But I guess, you know, with the noise

1023
00:55:59,100 --> 00:56:02,133
it was suggested to have a third party come in, you know,

1024
00:56:02,133 --> 00:56:05,166
and, and maybe there's something else mentioned somewhere

1025
00:56:05,166 --> 00:56:07,066
about an environmental impact study.

1026
00:56:07,133 --> 00:56:08,667
Kind of like we do a traffic study,

1027
00:56:08,667 --> 00:56:10,900
you have a third party consultant do that.

1028
00:56:11,367 --> 00:56:13,700
So I'm just curious if that could be part

1029
00:56:13,700 --> 00:56:17,533
of the condition is having a third party

1030
00:56:17,767 --> 00:56:19,100
and this goes I see.

1031
00:56:19,100 --> 00:56:21,767
Can, but I think the difference here is we're deferring

1032
00:56:22,033 --> 00:56:23,100
to the utility

1033
00:56:23,166 --> 00:56:27,000
- Itself, whereas if the noise, there's no noise utility.

1034
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:32,000
So that's where we're requiring a, a professional study.

1035
00:56:32,266 --> 00:56:36,266
Whereas here the water company's okay letting their

1036
00:56:36,266 --> 00:56:37,500
expertise take care of it.

1037
00:56:37,834 --> 00:56:41,734
Power company's okay. Electric company with their expertise

1038
00:56:42,133 --> 00:56:44,000
- Think - That's how we're proposing it at the

1039
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:45,066
moment. That's why we're talking.

1040
00:56:45,333 --> 00:56:47,867
- Right? Yeah. And it is just a question, you know,

1041
00:56:47,867 --> 00:56:50,367
that I was thinking because I was thinking that it's a,

1042
00:56:50,500 --> 00:56:53,900
it's in a position, you know, it's a burden on the utilities

1043
00:56:54,100 --> 00:56:57,667
to, to imagine what the usage will be

1044
00:56:58,367 --> 00:56:59,567
and say yes.

1045
00:57:00,066 --> 00:57:02,166
'cause in the language in here it says it won't impact

1046
00:57:02,166 --> 00:57:03,867
current use or future needs.

1047
00:57:04,500 --> 00:57:06,100
It seems, it just seems so broad

1048
00:57:06,367 --> 00:57:09,634
and so I yeah, sorry, part

1049
00:57:10,100 --> 00:57:13,667
- Remember that's taken from, to obtain a Zoning permit,

1050
00:57:13,934 --> 00:57:16,567
you have to have so many certificates

1051
00:57:16,567 --> 00:57:19,767
or letters of approval from other outside entities.

1052
00:57:20,266 --> 00:57:22,533
So we were kind of thinking along the, we actually toyed

1053
00:57:22,533 --> 00:57:24,100
with what section you can put that in

1054
00:57:25,533 --> 00:57:27,066
if anyone wants to explain that further.

1055
00:57:27,266 --> 00:57:29,667
But that, that was kind of the idea that things are,

1056
00:57:29,667 --> 00:57:33,734
that are really beyond the Township purview, pushing those

1057
00:57:33,734 --> 00:57:36,834
to those that sort of own the problem.

1058
00:57:37,900 --> 00:57:42,300
- Yeah, I would just throw it out as maybe something to,

1059
00:57:42,433 --> 00:57:44,300
you know, for when this gets to the board for the board,

1060
00:57:44,767 --> 00:57:47,033
consider okay, having in there, there,

1061
00:57:47,033 --> 00:57:50,467
because then that was another question on page six that had

1062
00:57:52,333 --> 00:57:55,066
this, I was looking at the language from mining and querying

1063
00:57:55,433 --> 00:57:59,467
because it in my mind is kind of a little symmetrical.

1064
00:57:59,834 --> 00:58:03,133
So in these conditions it says must provide,

1065
00:58:03,133 --> 00:58:06,300
this is on page six in in section one, number four,

1066
00:58:06,333 --> 00:58:08,834
it must provide proof

1067
00:58:08,867 --> 00:58:13,033
and compliance that in summary the data center won't

1068
00:58:13,033 --> 00:58:14,000
endanger the public health

1069
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:18,567
and safety if located were proposed.

1070
00:58:19,333 --> 00:58:21,834
And so I was wondering what that would look like

1071
00:58:22,500 --> 00:58:25,266
because in the mining inquiry it just says if the board

1072
00:58:25,700 --> 00:58:29,066
determines, so it just might be

1073
00:58:30,367 --> 00:58:33,700
something to consider moving forward with

1074
00:58:33,700 --> 00:58:35,133
that language if you're like,

1075
00:58:43,233 --> 00:58:45,867
and then just on the Zoning district's,

1076
00:58:49,567 --> 00:58:53,066
I'm cons, I would have concerns about the large

1077
00:58:55,900 --> 00:58:58,133
scale data center being in the IRE.

1078
00:58:59,133 --> 00:59:02,166
So I think when we were talking about it,

1079
00:59:02,333 --> 00:59:03,467
it was all industrial.

1080
00:59:03,867 --> 00:59:06,266
And I understand the industrial zone is very small,

1081
00:59:07,734 --> 00:59:11,734
but to have a large scale, I'm, I would have

1082
00:59:12,467 --> 00:59:16,266
concerns like why not make in my mind why not have small

1083
00:59:16,467 --> 00:59:18,433
and medium in IRD

1084
00:59:20,266 --> 00:59:21,667
and large scale

1085
00:59:22,333 --> 00:59:25,533
- 5,000 to almost a hundred thousand is too big of a

1086
00:59:25,834 --> 00:59:26,834
- Range.

1087
00:59:26,834 --> 00:59:30,000
Yeah. When it is, you know, in our case we have

1088
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:33,033
so many neighborhoods surrounding our IRD districts,

1089
00:59:35,033 --> 00:59:39,533
so we just, so it's something to, you know,

1090
00:59:39,934 --> 00:59:42,467
because we're crafting this now, so we have the ability

1091
00:59:42,467 --> 00:59:46,000
to do things for every month so that, you know,

1092
00:59:46,100 --> 00:59:48,433
if we wanna say small in IRB, medium,

1093
00:59:48,500 --> 00:59:50,767
large hyperscale in industrial

1094
00:59:51,233 --> 00:59:53,533
would've been the way I would've started.

1095
00:59:53,834 --> 00:59:54,834
You start there.

1096
00:59:57,867 --> 01:00:01,100
- I think we were there and we condense but go back because

1097
01:00:01,033 --> 01:00:02,033
- I think you're right.

1098
01:00:02,033 --> 01:00:04,333
Yeah, that's, I mean it's, it is difficult

1099
01:00:04,333 --> 01:00:08,734
because of the way our Zoning Ordinance has the, the bulk

1100
01:00:08,834 --> 01:00:10,734
and area categories.

1101
01:00:10,867 --> 01:00:14,700
And so I assume this would be maybe even using a new one

1102
01:00:14,700 --> 01:00:16,233
of those categories.

1103
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:21,567
So, but that gives a lot of flexibility as to

1104
01:00:21,567 --> 01:00:23,033
what you're putting in there.

1105
01:00:23,300 --> 01:00:24,300
So

1106
01:00:28,066 --> 01:00:29,500
- May I jump in and just ask a question

1107
01:00:29,500 --> 01:00:30,734
based on what you said?

1108
01:00:31,233 --> 01:00:35,734
We don't really de define medium and large, do we?

1109
01:00:36,166 --> 01:00:40,567
We we've defined small and we've defined hyperscale,

1110
01:00:41,567 --> 01:00:43,634
but medium to large is

1111
01:00:44,133 --> 01:00:47,467
between 5,090 9,000.

1112
01:00:48,500 --> 01:00:53,033
So which goes to what Lisa's question is,

1113
01:00:53,166 --> 01:00:55,867
if we def, and I'm just pulling number out,

1114
01:00:56,233 --> 01:01:00,734
but if we define medium has five to 30,000

1115
01:01:00,734 --> 01:01:04,934
or whatever it was, and large from 30 to 99 9,

1116
01:01:05,500 --> 01:01:09,300
it just seems that there's ambiguity there

1117
01:01:09,333 --> 01:01:11,867
and we're not, by not making that distinction,

1118
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:15,567
we don't really make the,

1119
01:01:16,166 --> 01:01:19,233
before that, that opportunity of distinguishing between

1120
01:01:21,500 --> 01:01:25,233
something between small and large.

1121
01:01:27,100 --> 01:01:30,266
- The PowerPoint doesn't show it because we're,

1122
01:01:30,333 --> 01:01:32,700
because of the purpose of industrial,

1123
01:01:32,734 --> 01:01:35,300
because of where we, where we are proposing

1124
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:40,934
of the medium enlarged to be permitted conditional use.

1125
01:01:40,934 --> 01:01:44,266
However, the Ordinance itself defines

1126
01:01:44,667 --> 01:01:47,667
and separates a medium to large scale data center

1127
01:01:48,500 --> 01:01:52,266
from the definition, the medium data center is anything

1128
01:01:52,266 --> 01:01:55,700
between 5,000 and 20,000 square feet.

1129
01:01:56,300 --> 01:01:59,166
And a large scale data center starts to be

1130
01:01:59,867 --> 01:02:03,300
20000.1 2001

1131
01:02:04,033 --> 01:02:08,667
to 100 to 99,999.

1132
01:02:09,734 --> 01:02:12,634
- And for those, looking at the draft Ordinance,

1133
01:02:12,634 --> 01:02:14,433
that is on page 13 at the bottom,

1134
01:02:16,066 --> 01:02:20,166
- So are, and I don't want to put any words in Gmail,

1135
01:02:20,667 --> 01:02:22,734
but I, since we now know that

1136
01:02:25,634 --> 01:02:29,033
if one wanted to, one could pose small

1137
01:02:29,133 --> 01:02:33,634
and medium in or or medium

1138
01:02:33,834 --> 01:02:37,734
because apparently small can all districts were accessory,

1139
01:02:37,834 --> 01:02:39,100
which is interesting.

1140
01:02:39,300 --> 01:02:43,934
But if you had medium in, in an IRD and large

1141
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:46,734
and hyperscale is what you're saying, press

1142
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:48,867
- Industrial - In industrial.

1143
01:02:53,033 --> 01:02:56,367
- Well, I, I mean I ask where those numbers came from.

1144
01:02:56,667 --> 01:02:59,033
Are are they relative to anything or did,

1145
01:02:59,367 --> 01:03:01,367
or did we just pull outta the

1146
01:03:01,500 --> 01:03:02,500
- Here?

1147
01:03:02,500 --> 01:03:05,767
So these numbers there, there's no specific as, as Ralph

1148
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:09,133
and everything, and Bill has mentioned

1149
01:03:09,133 --> 01:03:12,266
before, the industry is constantly changing.

1150
01:03:13,033 --> 01:03:15,033
What today, what what is

1151
01:03:15,634 --> 01:03:18,333
considered a hyper skilled data center today may not be

1152
01:03:18,333 --> 01:03:19,467
what's considered tomorrow

1153
01:03:19,867 --> 01:03:21,634
or what was considered two months ago.

1154
01:03:22,133 --> 01:03:24,000
So this is the opportunity.

1155
01:03:24,634 --> 01:03:26,867
These numbers were, yes,

1156
01:03:27,500 --> 01:03:29,867
they were established based on the medium of

1157
01:03:29,867 --> 01:03:32,934
what we've seen in, in throughout the ordinances

1158
01:03:32,934 --> 01:03:35,100
that we've read, the articles that we've read.

1159
01:03:35,233 --> 01:03:38,867
But it also presents an opportunity for us as a Township

1160
01:03:39,100 --> 01:03:42,834
to determine what are we, what size do we want

1161
01:03:42,867 --> 01:03:45,467
to be considered large or medium scale.

1162
01:03:45,700 --> 01:03:50,033
If we decide that anything that is in this range has to go

1163
01:03:50,233 --> 01:03:53,467
to this district because we consider that to be large, then

1164
01:03:53,467 --> 01:03:55,233
that's what we are going to put in the Ordinance.

1165
01:03:55,433 --> 01:03:58,233
And that decision is gonna come here with the,

1166
01:03:58,233 --> 01:04:00,567
with the commissions and with the, with the public.

1167
01:04:00,867 --> 01:04:03,000
And we are gonna receive all the input.

1168
01:04:03,233 --> 01:04:07,533
And as a reminder, this Ordinance is a draft, so

1169
01:04:08,433 --> 01:04:10,266
is going to be subject to changes.

1170
01:04:10,567 --> 01:04:12,767
And the reason why we provided this is

1171
01:04:12,767 --> 01:04:17,634
because staff went, staff thought researched

1172
01:04:17,734 --> 01:04:19,367
and this is what we were able to find.

1173
01:04:19,667 --> 01:04:23,000
Now we are looking for input from everybody to be able

1174
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:24,533
to contribute and to improve

1175
01:04:24,634 --> 01:04:28,033
and to make these ordinances know better, I guess

1176
01:04:28,033 --> 01:04:29,300
for, for the Township.

1177
01:04:29,900 --> 01:04:31,367
So this is, this is,

1178
01:04:31,734 --> 01:04:33,700
this is basically the purpose of this meeting.

1179
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:39,100
- Okay. Bill,

1180
01:04:41,066 --> 01:04:44,033
- I appreciate this last discussion

1181
01:04:44,033 --> 01:04:48,467
because I was clearly confused as I read

1182
01:04:48,467 --> 01:04:52,033
through some of the documents, like on page five

1183
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:55,066
it specifically talks about,

1184
01:04:56,433 --> 01:05:01,066
- Are you talking five of well, five of the order of five,

1185
01:05:01,734 --> 01:05:06,266
- No, well, we've got two page five.

1186
01:05:08,433 --> 01:05:13,066
We have to, anyway, I think we need to clarify.

1187
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:19,567
We received two charts

1188
01:05:23,066 --> 01:05:26,533
and, and they did not differentiate

1189
01:05:27,734 --> 01:05:29,867
between medium and large.

1190
01:05:30,700 --> 01:05:33,133
But then when we go into the document itself,

1191
01:05:34,033 --> 01:05:38,834
we find there is a, a determination medium up

1192
01:05:38,834 --> 01:05:43,734
to 20,000 square feet that made it confusing.

1193
01:05:44,634 --> 01:05:47,133
Okay. Because on the, on one part

1194
01:05:47,133 --> 01:05:48,900
of the documentation you gave us,

1195
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:51,300
there's no definition difference.

1196
01:05:51,634 --> 01:05:55,100
It's five to 99,000

1197
01:05:56,533 --> 01:06:01,100
and that's much too broad for what we're dealing with.

1198
01:06:01,300 --> 01:06:04,667
But then later on there's a reference to 20,000.

1199
01:06:05,634 --> 01:06:08,033
So I think we need to, you know,

1200
01:06:09,700 --> 01:06:12,667
- Yeah, for clarification for communication as we,

1201
01:06:13,066 --> 01:06:15,266
when we start to get Public Comment, go

1202
01:06:15,266 --> 01:06:19,133
by the Ordinance draft, the memo is meant to just be a,

1203
01:06:19,133 --> 01:06:20,266
like a table of content.

1204
01:06:20,934 --> 01:06:22,767
Got it. Because it is too much.

1205
01:06:23,367 --> 01:06:25,767
- And I go by the Ordinance, I understand that,

1206
01:06:25,767 --> 01:06:27,033
but it needs to be consistent.

1207
01:06:27,367 --> 01:06:31,300
Yes. And you know, because that becomes a public document.

1208
01:06:32,066 --> 01:06:34,033
Yes. And and that's what I, that's part

1209
01:06:34,033 --> 01:06:35,066
of what I was looking for.

1210
01:06:35,333 --> 01:06:39,133
Thank you. In the Ordinance,

1211
01:06:39,734 --> 01:06:43,900
are we not permitting the applicant

1212
01:06:44,834 --> 01:06:48,834
for the medium, large and

1213
01:06:48,834 --> 01:06:52,333
or hyperscale to produce their own energy

1214
01:06:52,500 --> 01:06:53,734
to produce their own power?

1215
01:06:54,667 --> 01:06:58,667
I I, by the, by the wording, are we requiring

1216
01:06:59,033 --> 01:07:02,266
that the applicant must use the grid

1217
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:04,834
and not provide their own power?

1218
01:07:07,767 --> 01:07:11,734
- We include generators as part

1219
01:07:11,734 --> 01:07:16,133
of the accessory used things that may be included in terms

1220
01:07:16,233 --> 01:07:20,100
of electrical consumption.

1221
01:07:21,100 --> 01:07:23,567
On page 10 to 11,

1222
01:07:24,133 --> 01:07:26,066
we require written confirmation from the

1223
01:07:26,333 --> 01:07:27,433
electrical utility provider.

1224
01:07:29,767 --> 01:07:32,567
But do not, we don't explicitly say that,

1225
01:07:33,934 --> 01:07:36,300
we don't explicitly say that you

1226
01:07:37,133 --> 01:07:39,667
must get it from the electric utility provider, but

1227
01:07:39,667 --> 01:07:41,767
- There is a, and that's exactly, that's exactly the section

1228
01:07:41,767 --> 01:07:43,734
that I'm referring to because we, we,

1229
01:07:43,900 --> 01:07:47,100
we say they must get certification from the electric

1230
01:07:47,367 --> 01:07:50,300
provider end of of statement.

1231
01:07:53,100 --> 01:07:57,266
I can't, I can't tell you Kim, you're pointing at something.

1232
01:07:57,834 --> 01:07:59,100
- Yeah, top of page 11

1233
01:07:59,367 --> 01:08:02,133
where we do say get confirmation from the electric utility

1234
01:08:02,333 --> 01:08:05,066
provider, but then B alternative

1235
01:08:05,133 --> 01:08:08,834
or off grid energy generation, including solar, wind,

1236
01:08:08,834 --> 01:08:13,266
fossil fuel, or nuclear energy generating systems shall be

1237
01:08:14,100 --> 01:08:15,100
considered separate

1238
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:19,033
and are subject to Township state federal requirements.

1239
01:08:19,033 --> 01:08:21,033
Right. Trying to put some catchalls,

1240
01:08:21,266 --> 01:08:24,500
but yeah, I hear what you're saying. So

1241
01:08:25,266 --> 01:08:26,767
- I I'm just saying that, you know, we need

1242
01:08:26,767 --> 01:08:29,133
to get a little consistency with some of that, some of

1243
01:08:29,133 --> 01:08:33,033
that wording because the implication in the first part

1244
01:08:33,233 --> 01:08:35,367
saying that, you know, they, they have

1245
01:08:35,367 --> 01:08:37,934
to have permission from the power supplier

1246
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:39,066
and don't say anything else.

1247
01:08:39,700 --> 01:08:43,133
I think we've got a reference at that point that,

1248
01:08:43,133 --> 01:08:47,133
that the option of of providing their own is there,

1249
01:08:52,767 --> 01:08:57,133
It was brought up about the, the consultants

1250
01:08:57,166 --> 01:09:02,066
or the engineers to do the approvals of, for example,

1251
01:09:02,266 --> 01:09:04,900
sound and vibration and all of those things.

1252
01:09:06,033 --> 01:09:11,000
And you know, typically we have

1253
01:09:11,133 --> 01:09:15,367
the consultant, we have the applicant

1254
01:09:16,100 --> 01:09:19,133
provide that technical expertise

1255
01:09:19,734 --> 01:09:21,900
by hiring their own engineers to do that.

1256
01:09:22,367 --> 01:09:24,333
However, I think Mr.

1257
01:09:24,734 --> 01:09:26,367
Rads has brought up a good point

1258
01:09:27,700 --> 01:09:30,533
and I recognize that the engineer,

1259
01:09:31,533 --> 01:09:35,000
whomever hires him, puts his license on the line.

1260
01:09:35,867 --> 01:09:40,133
But could we have some wording in there that says, that says

1261
01:09:41,634 --> 01:09:42,767
the applicant

1262
01:09:43,133 --> 01:09:46,133
and the Township shall agree upon

1263
01:09:47,233 --> 01:09:50,634
an appropriate firm to provide that analysis.

1264
01:09:51,233 --> 01:09:55,300
Can we say that just as kind

1265
01:09:56,100 --> 01:10:00,000
be, because the alternative is if

1266
01:10:01,033 --> 01:10:02,100
they hire somebody

1267
01:10:03,300 --> 01:10:07,500
and then some question comes of their results,

1268
01:10:08,467 --> 01:10:11,634
then we hire somebody

1269
01:10:13,500 --> 01:10:14,500
at our expense

1270
01:10:17,066 --> 01:10:20,166
and at very large hourly wage

1271
01:10:21,867 --> 01:10:24,433
to look at the data and review it.

1272
01:10:24,834 --> 01:10:28,266
I would rather have some input upfront

1273
01:10:29,934 --> 01:10:34,266
that, that we've, we've vetted the firm as well.

1274
01:10:35,533 --> 01:10:38,000
And so just, just a thought there,

1275
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:46,033
going back to the issue of square footage

1276
01:10:47,233 --> 01:10:49,033
for our definitions

1277
01:10:50,100 --> 01:10:54,634
of the different sizes, miles,

1278
01:10:54,934 --> 01:10:59,033
in any of your research, did you find any other source

1279
01:11:00,433 --> 01:11:05,133
that defined them by any other metric other than square foot

1280
01:11:07,066 --> 01:11:10,433
in, would you like to take this one?

1281
01:11:10,467 --> 01:11:11,467
Yeah.

1282
01:11:14,700 --> 01:11:18,133
- Definitions of data centers across the board have

1283
01:11:18,567 --> 01:11:23,100
different metrics that they use to say this is a data center

1284
01:11:23,066 --> 01:11:26,467
or this is a medium large or, or hyperscale.

1285
01:11:27,567 --> 01:11:31,667
If you recall in our first meeting we had a table

1286
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:36,300
indicating even a co-location as a type of data center,

1287
01:11:36,900 --> 01:11:39,266
a AI data centers.

1288
01:11:40,433 --> 01:11:43,166
All, all of those elements, including co-location,

1289
01:11:43,734 --> 01:11:47,000
AI data centers are not in, when it comes to Zoning,

1290
01:11:48,066 --> 01:11:51,500
they don't have any, any, any reference

1291
01:11:51,734 --> 01:11:55,433
to which we can like put it in a, in a,

1292
01:11:55,433 --> 01:11:59,667
in a place co-location data center is a type of data center

1293
01:12:00,100 --> 01:12:02,033
that is used by different

1294
01:12:03,000 --> 01:12:04,667
companies in one specific building.

1295
01:12:04,900 --> 01:12:07,100
So if you look, if you go to Google

1296
01:12:07,033 --> 01:12:10,000
and search types of data centers, you will find one of those

1297
01:12:10,133 --> 01:12:11,300
to be co-location.

1298
01:12:11,734 --> 01:12:13,667
Some of them AI data centers

1299
01:12:13,834 --> 01:12:18,133
or even campus data centers, they use different metrics that

1300
01:12:18,834 --> 01:12:22,433
in terms of Zoning are completely irrelevant and we, and,

1301
01:12:22,433 --> 01:12:25,500
and, and will not be enforceable in terms of Zoning,

1302
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:30,266
which is why we found different sources that

1303
01:12:30,867 --> 01:12:33,433
even though they didn't go in depth into the type

1304
01:12:33,433 --> 01:12:36,634
of data center to be like co-location, they had elements

1305
01:12:36,634 --> 01:12:39,033
that could be defensible in terms of Zoning.

1306
01:12:39,433 --> 01:12:43,467
And those elements are scale, like the area that they,

1307
01:12:43,700 --> 01:12:45,133
that they occupy

1308
01:12:45,834 --> 01:12:48,066
or the, the, depending on the type

1309
01:12:48,066 --> 01:12:51,634
of the size is sometimes also correlated to the,

1310
01:12:51,767 --> 01:12:53,133
to the energy consumption.

1311
01:12:53,567 --> 01:12:55,867
So that was also a different element that we,

1312
01:12:55,867 --> 01:12:58,533
that we grabbed and we, we, we were able

1313
01:12:58,567 --> 01:13:01,700
to tie into the type of data center depending on,

1314
01:13:02,033 --> 01:13:05,300
on the size and, and, and energy usage.

1315
01:13:05,634 --> 01:13:08,133
Those two elements really are the only ones

1316
01:13:08,133 --> 01:13:10,467
that we could find that would determine

1317
01:13:10,567 --> 01:13:12,233
or define the tip a scale

1318
01:13:12,266 --> 01:13:15,000
of data center other than co-location

1319
01:13:15,066 --> 01:13:16,900
or the type of infrastructure

1320
01:13:17,133 --> 01:13:19,533
or how many, how many servers it has

1321
01:13:20,100 --> 01:13:24,033
or what type of switch it uses.

1322
01:13:24,867 --> 01:13:27,266
This is, these elements are not defensible,

1323
01:13:27,333 --> 01:13:28,667
are not enforceable

1324
01:13:28,867 --> 01:13:30,700
and would not make much sense

1325
01:13:30,834 --> 01:13:32,500
to include in a Zoning Ordinance.

1326
01:13:34,567 --> 01:13:38,433
- Good. I mean, thank you for, for, for that response.

1327
01:13:38,567 --> 01:13:42,533
In terms of, of looking at it, I am concerned about one

1328
01:13:42,533 --> 01:13:45,066
of the things that Mike mentioned in terms of,

1329
01:13:45,767 --> 01:13:48,367
because the science is moving so fast

1330
01:13:49,233 --> 01:13:53,066
with this whole concept, I'd like

1331
01:13:53,066 --> 01:13:54,634
to see two things.

1332
01:13:55,100 --> 01:13:58,066
One is I'd like to see some metric

1333
01:13:59,233 --> 01:14:03,634
that addresses the fact that today

1334
01:14:04,166 --> 01:14:08,900
they can pro they can provide 10 million of something

1335
01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:13,867
of a product with the, with the space they have,

1336
01:14:15,266 --> 01:14:18,934
but five years from today that same space

1337
01:14:20,233 --> 01:14:22,567
can then provide double that amount.

1338
01:14:23,734 --> 01:14:27,066
And does that have any impact on, on what we wanna do?

1339
01:14:28,900 --> 01:14:32,767
Maybe if, if there were something that, that, that could

1340
01:14:33,367 --> 01:14:37,066
comment in our Ordinance with regard

1341
01:14:37,066 --> 01:14:41,066
to the change in the science and,

1342
01:14:41,233 --> 01:14:43,333
and I mean we're, we're in, we're in

1343
01:14:45,033 --> 01:14:47,066
pristine territory here.

1344
01:14:48,066 --> 01:14:51,834
This, this is stuff that hasn't been typically

1345
01:14:52,867 --> 01:14:55,734
arrived at in Zoning and Zoning ordinances.

1346
01:14:57,500 --> 01:15:00,934
And, and I am concerned about

1347
01:15:01,166 --> 01:15:03,266
how fast the science is moving

1348
01:15:04,033 --> 01:15:09,033
and that, that we can't be, I'd rather not be in a position

1349
01:15:09,333 --> 01:15:13,033
to have to recall our Ordinance

1350
01:15:13,867 --> 01:15:18,300
every 12 months to update something in or other in it.

1351
01:15:18,367 --> 01:15:22,133
If we can avoid that, it may be that the science is moving

1352
01:15:22,166 --> 01:15:23,533
so fast that we can't avoid it.

1353
01:15:27,100 --> 01:15:29,166
- Is it possible to put something about

1354
01:15:30,033 --> 01:15:33,000
the size is being reviewed every five years

1355
01:15:33,033 --> 01:15:36,900
or something for Yeah, I don't know if that's legal or not,

1356
01:15:37,266 --> 01:15:38,266
- You know.

1357
01:15:38,266 --> 01:15:38,900
Well, there's nothing that,

1358
01:15:38,900 --> 01:15:40,033
there's nothing that prevents it.

1359
01:15:40,433 --> 01:15:45,066
And I guess if in response to this though, we're speaking

1360
01:15:45,133 --> 01:15:48,266
of a Zoning Ordinance as opposed to

1361
01:15:51,634 --> 01:15:54,166
what's, what's happening within that structure,

1362
01:15:55,333 --> 01:15:58,133
which isn't really, at this point,

1363
01:15:58,133 --> 01:15:59,367
in my mind, isn't a Zoning.

1364
01:16:00,100 --> 01:16:04,133
So if it could produce, I don't know anything. Right.

1365
01:16:04,133 --> 01:16:08,066
But I mean, if, if it can double its capacity,

1366
01:16:09,700 --> 01:16:13,367
but it's, it's still in the, when it's not doing anything

1367
01:16:14,133 --> 01:16:17,000
structurally, I don't see that as a Zoning issue

1368
01:16:19,133 --> 01:16:21,533
as long as it's still meeting all of the, all

1369
01:16:21,533 --> 01:16:24,000
of the other requirements, the, the sound

1370
01:16:24,900 --> 01:16:26,133
electric, whatever, everything else.

1371
01:16:26,867 --> 01:16:29,000
So I, I don't see how

1372
01:16:31,533 --> 01:16:33,734
the advancement of technology

1373
01:16:35,233 --> 01:16:37,734
necessarily affects the Zoning.

1374
01:16:41,066 --> 01:16:43,300
- But, And, and I, I understand that Louis,

1375
01:16:43,533 --> 01:16:46,300
because we've been doing this kind of stuff for a long time

1376
01:16:46,700 --> 01:16:51,533
and you've been in it, in the weeds in your previous life.

1377
01:16:52,100 --> 01:16:56,066
But that doesn't mean to say that we can't start

1378
01:16:56,667 --> 01:16:58,233
to look at some of this stuff

1379
01:16:58,266 --> 01:17:01,066
because in my mind we are,

1380
01:17:02,700 --> 01:17:07,367
we are in a space with these AI centers that

1381
01:17:08,233 --> 01:17:11,500
we've never really, the, the science is becoming part

1382
01:17:11,500 --> 01:17:13,433
of the issue in the discussion

1383
01:17:14,934 --> 01:17:17,133
and not just the square feet.

1384
01:17:18,834 --> 01:17:22,000
It is impacting a much larger environment

1385
01:17:22,734 --> 01:17:25,834
than we typically have had to deal with

1386
01:17:34,367 --> 01:17:36,734
on page 10

1387
01:17:37,767 --> 01:17:42,533
of the hor.

1388
01:17:47,834 --> 01:17:51,433
Yeah. Yeah. I'm looking at the old one.

1389
01:17:52,767 --> 01:17:55,934
I don't know where it is in the new, it talks about

1390
01:17:56,533 --> 01:18:00,133
no water utilized by the facility shall be discharged,

1391
01:18:00,467 --> 01:18:03,066
released, or otherwise exported from site, except

1392
01:18:03,066 --> 01:18:06,500
through a connection to a public sanatory sewer system.

1393
01:18:06,667 --> 01:18:09,700
And, and, and Ralph brought that up,

1394
01:18:11,934 --> 01:18:15,433
I asked the question because it occurs in other industrial

1395
01:18:15,533 --> 01:18:19,767
environments where they truck their water

1396
01:18:20,100 --> 01:18:22,433
to some disposable site.

1397
01:18:22,900 --> 01:18:25,934
In other words, they don't use the public system.

1398
01:18:27,033 --> 01:18:29,867
They, their water is contaminated.

1399
01:18:29,867 --> 01:18:32,000
Their fluid is com contaminated

1400
01:18:32,300 --> 01:18:37,133
and it can't go into the local sewer system for treatment

1401
01:18:37,133 --> 01:18:39,233
because it is far more advanced than

1402
01:18:39,233 --> 01:18:40,700
what the system can handle.

1403
01:18:41,033 --> 01:18:45,066
So they truck it to a appropriate site.

1404
01:18:46,367 --> 01:18:50,700
So it would be my thought that, that we might want to,

1405
01:18:51,133 --> 01:18:54,000
to allow for that

1406
01:18:54,533 --> 01:18:56,233
or not allow for it, one or the other.

1407
01:18:57,100 --> 01:19:01,300
But clearly there are examples now

1408
01:19:02,033 --> 01:19:07,000
where sites are trucking their treatment water

1409
01:19:08,100 --> 01:19:12,100
to other places for appropriate treatment.

1410
01:19:12,500 --> 01:19:13,867
So we might want to address

1411
01:19:13,900 --> 01:19:18,567
that in a little different way in that particular section

1412
01:19:25,567 --> 01:19:28,000
under our electricity consumption.

1413
01:19:28,100 --> 01:19:32,266
There's been an awful lot, lot of talk statewide wide,

1414
01:19:32,667 --> 01:19:35,233
and I don't know what, what the status is of this is,

1415
01:19:36,166 --> 01:19:39,233
but the governor, governor in assets in terms of,

1416
01:19:39,433 --> 01:19:43,634
of impact on local fees, local

1417
01:19:44,166 --> 01:19:48,133
electrical fees, and like I said, I don't know

1418
01:19:48,133 --> 01:19:49,133
what the status is,

1419
01:19:49,367 --> 01:19:53,000
but the governor has alluded to the fact that

1420
01:19:55,033 --> 01:19:57,166
the impact of the center

1421
01:19:59,533 --> 01:20:02,133
cannot impact local

1422
01:20:04,033 --> 01:20:06,266
fee increases.

1423
01:20:07,667 --> 01:20:10,100
And we don't say anything about that.

1424
01:20:11,233 --> 01:20:15,867
And, and I'm wondering whether we want to have that within

1425
01:20:16,700 --> 01:20:18,867
the, the Ordinance.

1426
01:20:19,300 --> 01:20:21,100
- Well, I agree with you on that.

1427
01:20:21,300 --> 01:20:25,467
That is part of the condition of the, whether water

1428
01:20:25,867 --> 01:20:30,000
or electrical consumption, that it not only be that it,

1429
01:20:30,266 --> 01:20:32,533
there is the capacity that it,

1430
01:20:32,533 --> 01:20:37,066
but it would not impact upon the rate of,

1431
01:20:37,233 --> 01:20:42,033
of all other consumers of that, that utility.

1432
01:20:42,767 --> 01:20:47,467
I, I think that is important as for it to be considered.

1433
01:20:48,233 --> 01:20:51,500
I I've had that note also.

1434
01:20:52,166 --> 01:20:57,066
And I, I guess question I have in terms

1435
01:20:57,133 --> 01:21:00,700
of that, and this may be, so

1436
01:21:01,133 --> 01:21:04,266
in the weeds we say that if,

1437
01:21:06,133 --> 01:21:09,333
if it is desired to have an alternative

1438
01:21:09,433 --> 01:21:12,634
or off grid energy generation that's

1439
01:21:13,133 --> 01:21:15,667
considered a separate use, would

1440
01:21:15,667 --> 01:21:17,667
that be considered an accessory use?

1441
01:21:19,100 --> 01:21:20,934
It would have to be an accessory use

1442
01:21:21,066 --> 01:21:25,000
because it can't be another primary use.

1443
01:21:27,166 --> 01:21:31,300
So, so I think that's, it should,

1444
01:21:32,000 --> 01:21:34,533
so I think it might be appropriate

1445
01:21:34,533 --> 01:21:36,233
to consider whether we would want

1446
01:21:36,233 --> 01:21:41,100
to say it shall be considered as a

1447
01:21:42,734 --> 01:21:45,734
separate access or simply as an accessory use

1448
01:21:45,834 --> 01:21:48,166
and subject to Township, state and federal requirements.

1449
01:21:49,033 --> 01:21:53,000
But, but I also feel that there's a need to be concern.

1450
01:21:53,900 --> 01:21:57,667
And, and I think Bill, in with regard to that, if the

1451
01:21:59,133 --> 01:22:02,533
developer were providing alternative off grid energy

1452
01:22:02,634 --> 01:22:07,266
generation, that would make it simple for the utility to say

1453
01:22:07,667 --> 01:22:09,634
that there is sufficient capacity.

1454
01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:13,133
'cause it's not gonna, it, it would be zero additional

1455
01:22:13,266 --> 01:22:15,300
or whatever capacity it is.

1456
01:22:15,867 --> 01:22:19,033
But if, if so I think, you know, still getting

1457
01:22:19,066 --> 01:22:21,033
that approval, it makes it easy.

1458
01:22:21,934 --> 01:22:25,033
And I, last point, I have in response to questions,

1459
01:22:25,634 --> 01:22:27,133
this concept of engineer,

1460
01:22:27,634 --> 01:22:31,934
and I understand my, your cynicism or skepticism,

1461
01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:40,934
I used to deal a lot with appraisers

1462
01:22:41,367 --> 01:22:42,500
and the higher level

1463
01:22:45,233 --> 01:22:47,333
of appraisal was called MIA

1464
01:22:48,233 --> 01:22:50,867
and there were those thought that meant made

1465
01:22:51,634 --> 01:22:54,033
or MAI made as instructed.

1466
01:22:56,000 --> 01:22:59,467
So, but I don't know how else what we can do about that

1467
01:22:59,467 --> 01:23:04,066
because I, if they say I want, we would a,

1468
01:23:04,100 --> 01:23:08,467
to be our sound engineer, we say we want B, are we going to

1469
01:23:08,734 --> 01:23:09,867
where, where are we?

1470
01:23:11,066 --> 01:23:14,934
But, but, but I think your point is well taken.

1471
01:23:15,000 --> 01:23:17,700
We, I don't know that we have a choice if,

1472
01:23:17,900 --> 01:23:20,867
if they're coming forward with a licensed

1473
01:23:23,433 --> 01:23:27,166
engineer, I think we have to accept that

1474
01:23:27,734 --> 01:23:29,467
and shame on them

1475
01:23:29,500 --> 01:23:31,033
and shame on us if we find that

1476
01:23:31,033 --> 01:23:34,734
that person was not honest with us.

1477
01:23:36,100 --> 01:23:39,900
But I don't know how we, I don't know how we can, I mean,

1478
01:23:39,934 --> 01:23:42,734
I guess we could, but it, it, I I've not seen it.

1479
01:23:43,367 --> 01:23:46,533
I mean, we don't, when an engineer comes in

1480
01:23:46,533 --> 01:23:50,133
with a a site development, we don't, we don't question

1481
01:23:51,033 --> 01:23:55,000
that person's qualifications be, I mean, they're working,

1482
01:23:55,233 --> 01:23:57,433
they're employed by the, the developer

1483
01:23:58,133 --> 01:23:59,900
and they come forward with the plans

1484
01:24:00,133 --> 01:24:02,634
and we're not saying, well,

1485
01:24:02,667 --> 01:24:05,734
are those really legitimate?

1486
01:24:05,734 --> 01:24:08,734
Because he is trying to help his, his client.

1487
01:24:09,300 --> 01:24:12,367
I think we need to accept the,

1488
01:24:16,133 --> 01:24:20,667
the appropriateness of documentation

1489
01:24:20,667 --> 01:24:23,634
that is sealed by a

1490
01:24:24,033 --> 01:24:28,367
or sealed by appropriate people, whether it be

1491
01:24:29,100 --> 01:24:32,266
civil engineers or sound engineers,

1492
01:24:33,000 --> 01:24:35,567
- But sweet bill put it mutually agreed upon.

1493
01:24:36,667 --> 01:24:40,033
- But how do you, what I, that's really saying

1494
01:24:40,033 --> 01:24:42,066
that they would have to agree on ours.

1495
01:24:43,033 --> 01:24:44,233
- Well, there's or vice versa.

1496
01:24:45,467 --> 01:24:49,066
- There's gotta be a, a list of state approved.

1497
01:24:49,734 --> 01:24:51,000
Again, it doesn't matter what

1498
01:24:52,734 --> 01:24:54,266
- Well, well, I think that's right.

1499
01:24:54,667 --> 01:24:56,033
Yeah, they, I, but,

1500
01:24:56,166 --> 01:25:00,233
but state approved is if I'm licensed by the state

1501
01:25:00,233 --> 01:25:05,000
of Pennsylvania to be a civil engineer,

1502
01:25:07,900 --> 01:25:10,867
it, we require that on our plans.

1503
01:25:11,066 --> 01:25:13,300
I mean, I just can't have somebody coming in

1504
01:25:13,300 --> 01:25:14,667
and say, I'm gonna do it.

1505
01:25:15,000 --> 01:25:18,033
And just as I think we would still have the same requirement

1506
01:25:18,433 --> 01:25:23,000
for any, well, any other expert's gonna be licensed

1507
01:25:23,033 --> 01:25:25,066
by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Well,

1508
01:25:26,033 --> 01:25:29,533
- I, I think we, I think we'd have a hard time saying that,

1509
01:25:30,100 --> 01:25:32,867
you know, if somebody comes up with an engineer or,

1510
01:25:32,867 --> 01:25:36,367
or whatever, a service that's gonna do a, you know,

1511
01:25:36,433 --> 01:25:37,467
a traffic study

1512
01:25:37,533 --> 01:25:41,533
or whatever to say we don't, if, if they're licensed,

1513
01:25:43,667 --> 01:25:46,266
we're not gonna say, well, we don't like 'em.

1514
01:25:47,066 --> 01:25:49,500
- But that's what I, that's what, that's what we're saying.

1515
01:25:50,000 --> 01:25:52,834
- But we do, we do, for most of the plans that we get

1516
01:25:53,233 --> 01:25:57,500
that aren't nearly as, as, as technically

1517
01:25:59,467 --> 01:26:04,233
like this particular one, we have an engineer who we pay

1518
01:26:05,066 --> 01:26:08,634
to review whatever that engineer's

1519
01:26:09,934 --> 01:26:11,066
group submits.

1520
01:26:11,934 --> 01:26:14,834
So there is already a Township review.

1521
01:26:16,000 --> 01:26:20,000
The, the level of that review varies depending on

1522
01:26:20,033 --> 01:26:21,033
what is necessary.

1523
01:26:21,934 --> 01:26:23,233
But, but we do have,

1524
01:26:23,734 --> 01:26:27,000
but the Township cer clearly doesn't employ

1525
01:26:28,033 --> 01:26:32,700
or necessarily want to employ through contract

1526
01:26:33,867 --> 01:26:38,567
somebody as specialized as the vibration or the sound

1527
01:26:38,867 --> 01:26:40,533
and some of that kind of stuff.

1528
01:26:41,367 --> 01:26:45,333
If we were mutually approving, you know, vetting them,

1529
01:26:45,767 --> 01:26:48,266
I think that would just say to us

1530
01:26:48,333 --> 01:26:51,467
and the public that there was an attempt to,

1531
01:26:51,900 --> 01:26:54,100
to protect all of our interests.

1532
01:26:55,066 --> 01:26:57,233
We're gonna start to hear about all

1533
01:26:57,233 --> 01:27:00,367
of the horror stories coming out of the country

1534
01:27:02,033 --> 01:27:06,100
of these centers and what's happened in those areas.

1535
01:27:07,033 --> 01:27:10,133
And, and there were engineers in all of them.

1536
01:27:11,700 --> 01:27:13,233
And, and so

1537
01:27:15,100 --> 01:27:17,133
- Do they have to be licensed by the state of Pennsylvania

1538
01:27:17,300 --> 01:27:19,900
or could I bring in somebody licensed in North Dakota?

1539
01:27:21,367 --> 01:27:23,133
- I think to practice in Pennsylvania,

1540
01:27:23,266 --> 01:27:24,734
you have to be licensed in

1541
01:27:24,734 --> 01:27:25,734
- Pennsylvania.

1542
01:27:26,066 --> 01:27:27,367
I, I would think and,

1543
01:27:27,467 --> 01:27:29,266
and I, the last comment I'll have on that,

1544
01:27:29,266 --> 01:27:31,000
and we then maybe we, we should move on.

1545
01:27:31,834 --> 01:27:34,033
I don't want us to be assuming any liability.

1546
01:27:35,000 --> 01:27:36,133
- That's the other issue.

1547
01:27:37,467 --> 01:27:40,533
- I mean, if we're saying this, we agree with this

1548
01:27:41,100 --> 01:27:45,700
and if they screw up, are we as liable as, I don't know

1549
01:27:45,700 --> 01:27:47,700
that we are or not, but, but we're,

1550
01:27:47,700 --> 01:27:49,000
we're putting our ourself out there.

1551
01:27:49,867 --> 01:27:51,500
Okay, Kim, Mr.

1552
01:27:51,500 --> 01:27:53,500
- Chair before far away.

1553
01:27:54,533 --> 01:27:58,033
- I, I wanted to say please

1554
01:27:58,333 --> 01:28:00,500
- Excuse, excuse me, Shannon, before,

1555
01:28:00,567 --> 01:28:02,100
before your comment, Kim is in the middle

1556
01:28:02,133 --> 01:28:04,100
of making a, a statement. Go ahead Kim.

1557
01:28:04,233 --> 01:28:07,066
- Thank you. Briefly wrote a note about

1558
01:28:07,066 --> 01:28:09,100
what you said about accessory still back under

1559
01:28:10,333 --> 01:28:11,867
electricity consumption.

1560
01:28:12,667 --> 01:28:14,300
So made the note about accessory

1561
01:28:14,734 --> 01:28:17,634
and then just a note on the impact on local fees,

1562
01:28:19,100 --> 01:28:20,533
that is potentially an,

1563
01:28:20,567 --> 01:28:22,734
an appropriate Township level discussion,

1564
01:28:23,133 --> 01:28:25,266
but I, I would offer not in Zoning

1565
01:28:25,266 --> 01:28:28,700
or Aldo, that could be not in a governmental agreement

1566
01:28:28,700 --> 01:28:33,233
or something at the, the manager level and above and so,

1567
01:28:35,133 --> 01:28:37,066
- So long as it can be covered. Yeah,

1568
01:28:37,000 --> 01:28:39,634
- So, so kind of starting a separate list of items,

1569
01:28:39,834 --> 01:28:42,266
just like we have the items that apply across the board,

1570
01:28:42,266 --> 01:28:43,500
not specific to data centers

1571
01:28:44,133 --> 01:28:45,934
and starting a fourth list of items like that.

1572
01:28:46,767 --> 01:28:48,066
Thank you. Thank

1573
01:28:51,100 --> 01:28:52,100
- Shannon.

1574
01:28:52,100 --> 01:28:54,634
Did you have another comment that you wanted to make? I

1575
01:28:54,867 --> 01:28:59,033
- Just have five questions that I'd like to present

1576
01:28:59,667 --> 01:29:04,033
and, you know, know that's, it's, it I I don't even expect

1577
01:29:04,700 --> 01:29:06,500
any immediate response to, to them.

1578
01:29:06,834 --> 01:29:08,033
I just want 'em on record.

1579
01:29:08,834 --> 01:29:11,066
And this, this is based on, on notes I took,

1580
01:29:11,433 --> 01:29:16,033
if the discussion was, was, was taking place, if I may

1581
01:29:17,634 --> 01:29:22,133
- Go right ahead, - It possible

1582
01:29:22,367 --> 01:29:27,000
for us to require developers who are

1583
01:29:28,433 --> 01:29:33,066
submitting applications to, to, to develop data centers, to,

1584
01:29:33,100 --> 01:29:37,767
to, to use solar power as opposed to using,

1585
01:29:38,333 --> 01:29:41,266
using electricity from,

1586
01:29:41,333 --> 01:29:44,834
from our utility resources first.

1587
01:29:44,867 --> 01:29:46,867
That's the first question. Second question is,

1588
01:29:47,433 --> 01:29:51,100
can we put limitation on the type of data centers

1589
01:29:51,166 --> 01:29:54,500
that will be allowed in, in our order

1590
01:29:54,667 --> 01:29:56,533
and within person Township.

1591
01:29:57,266 --> 01:30:01,300
So in other words, colocation data centers, can we maybe

1592
01:30:03,000 --> 01:30:06,033
have a restriction on not allowing colocation data centers

1593
01:30:06,133 --> 01:30:09,867
to be in fer and Township for an example or I,

1594
01:30:10,000 --> 01:30:12,133
or you know, just certain types.

1595
01:30:12,233 --> 01:30:16,433
Okay, so the next one is, can we issue a mandate on the type

1596
01:30:16,433 --> 01:30:19,100
of generators that data center is used

1597
01:30:19,066 --> 01:30:22,900
and require them to use noiseless generators?

1598
01:30:24,867 --> 01:30:29,000
Then the next question is, the fourth question is whether we

1599
01:30:29,367 --> 01:30:33,834
quantify how many data centers will be allowed within the

1600
01:30:34,100 --> 01:30:36,667
specificity of Township within the Township.

1601
01:30:38,166 --> 01:30:42,667
And the last question is, it is more

1602
01:30:42,667 --> 01:30:45,433
that it is more, it's kind of like a statement,

1603
01:30:45,467 --> 01:30:47,667
but it's, it's still something that I,

1604
01:30:47,900 --> 01:30:49,133
that could be responded to.

1605
01:30:50,433 --> 01:30:54,000
I think we should consider what,

1606
01:30:56,433 --> 01:31:01,133
what would a

1607
01:31:01,166 --> 01:31:06,133
definition truly constitute in

1608
01:31:08,367 --> 01:31:13,300
a data set of operating and providing clean air?

1609
01:31:14,033 --> 01:31:17,500
Because the only thing that I've been able to

1610
01:31:18,667 --> 01:31:21,266
find when I research, you know, and

1611
01:31:21,333 --> 01:31:25,000
or hear of testimonials from the existence

1612
01:31:25,000 --> 01:31:29,934
of these data centers is that they emit fuel

1613
01:31:30,066 --> 01:31:34,667
and green gass, which loose the air considering the fact

1614
01:31:34,667 --> 01:31:38,033
that some people are autoimmune compromised.

1615
01:31:38,300 --> 01:31:42,100
You know, may they have cancer, may it be a cancer survivor

1616
01:31:42,567 --> 01:31:44,900
or what have you, or may have the gene

1617
01:31:45,000 --> 01:31:48,066
and not know that they are vulnerable to have cancer.

1618
01:31:48,767 --> 01:31:50,700
So these are my questions

1619
01:31:51,133 --> 01:31:55,133
and with that being said, I agree, I I

1620
01:31:55,000 --> 01:31:56,500
that concludes my questions.

1621
01:31:57,467 --> 01:32:01,333
- Thank you. Like to now, now? Oh yeah,

1622
01:32:01,634 --> 01:32:02,634
- A few.

1623
01:32:02,634 --> 01:32:04,000
- A few. I'll go. I - I'll try to be great.

1624
01:32:04,033 --> 01:32:07,467
- I I'll go right ahead. I'm sorry. I'm sorry Nick. I,

1625
01:32:09,233 --> 01:32:10,266
- My first question is for staff.

1626
01:32:10,433 --> 01:32:13,033
Staff, is there any, any other industry whose

1627
01:32:13,700 --> 01:32:15,934
square footage, footage is regulated?

1628
01:32:15,934 --> 01:32:18,934
Regulated, particularly in the IRI where we say, say

1629
01:32:19,467 --> 01:32:21,100
regardless of those lot, lot size,

1630
01:32:21,133 --> 01:32:23,033
you're gonna use this much square, this much square footage,

1631
01:32:23,100 --> 01:32:24,934
you're then you're bumped up to industrial.

1632
01:32:24,934 --> 01:32:27,300
Industrial? Or is this the only instance

1633
01:32:27,300 --> 01:32:28,467
where we proposed proposal?

1634
01:32:29,066 --> 01:32:30,767
- Our, the first one that I,

1635
01:32:30,767 --> 01:32:32,333
that I call is personal care homes.

1636
01:32:32,333 --> 01:32:35,000
Care homes. Those are distinguished size, size between

1637
01:32:36,066 --> 01:32:37,300
small, small and large.

1638
01:32:37,433 --> 01:32:40,734
Large. I would have to double

1639
01:32:40,734 --> 01:32:42,700
- Check they large, large, they moved to a different zone.

1640
01:32:42,700 --> 01:32:45,066
Zone would be permissible in that zone. Okay. Yes, yes.

1641
01:32:46,500 --> 01:32:49,734
- Places of assessment, - Percent large scale, large social

1642
01:32:51,700 --> 01:32:54,700
- Ralph Paul adult places assembling beliefs are

1643
01:32:54,767 --> 01:32:56,033
also distinguishing by size. Size.

1644
01:32:56,266 --> 01:32:59,900
- Okay. My concern is I might open up some litigation sound,

1645
01:32:59,900 --> 01:33:01,700
sound, I exclusion engineer, but if other, other industries,

1646
01:33:01,700 --> 01:33:03,100
they're also regulated like that.

1647
01:33:04,634 --> 01:33:08,133
If that's the case, then going off of your comment

1648
01:33:08,133 --> 01:33:11,300
before, I think I propose we should include language in this

1649
01:33:11,300 --> 01:33:16,133
Ordinance to just put large data centers 20,000 feet

1650
01:33:16,266 --> 01:33:18,000
up to 99,000 9 9 9

1651
01:33:18,100 --> 01:33:21,467
and just make that permissible on in the industrial zone.

1652
01:33:23,900 --> 01:33:26,700
That's something that I'd like to see in the language if

1653
01:33:26,700 --> 01:33:29,300
that's agreeable to the, the rest of the committee course.

1654
01:33:29,867 --> 01:33:33,133
- Yeah, well the other thing to consider there is,

1655
01:33:34,133 --> 01:33:37,133
I mean you've also, yeah, you can build a data center,

1656
01:33:37,100 --> 01:33:39,934
but what, what's our impervious coverage?

1657
01:33:40,133 --> 01:33:43,100
I mean, you're also gonna be limited on a lot size as to

1658
01:33:43,300 --> 01:33:45,033
how big a building you can put

1659
01:33:45,033 --> 01:33:47,867
because of a limit on impervious

1660
01:33:47,900 --> 01:33:49,233
and I don't recall what they are.

1661
01:33:49,934 --> 01:33:51,000
- B was 50%.

1662
01:33:51,033 --> 01:33:55,133
Yeah, 40% building or 50% impervious. I, I believe.

1663
01:33:55,867 --> 01:33:59,367
- Yeah. So it's gonna take a, it is gonna take a big lot

1664
01:33:59,567 --> 01:34:01,734
to put anything of any size on.

1665
01:34:03,333 --> 01:34:04,934
- Yeah, I was going to say,

1666
01:34:05,033 --> 01:34:08,900
and with your comment, can we look at incorporating

1667
01:34:08,900 --> 01:34:11,533
with these, you know, kind of more structured definitions

1668
01:34:11,567 --> 01:34:16,000
of small, medium, large minimum lot sizes because mining

1669
01:34:16,033 --> 01:34:19,700
and corn does have minimum lot size

1670
01:34:20,000 --> 01:34:23,300
and then a specific impervious

1671
01:34:23,700 --> 01:34:25,734
coverage maximum.

1672
01:34:26,066 --> 01:34:29,300
So I think, and obviously it'd have to be really specific

1673
01:34:29,500 --> 01:34:32,166
for each type that we're talking about here,

1674
01:34:32,266 --> 01:34:36,667
but I think that might help with this, especially

1675
01:34:36,667 --> 01:34:38,033
with those large setbacks.

1676
01:34:38,133 --> 01:34:41,133
I think looking at what that would require,

1677
01:34:41,133 --> 01:34:44,000
and then the only other comment I had was I was wondering if

1678
01:34:44,000 --> 01:34:47,634
it might be, we keep saying data center

1679
01:34:47,834 --> 01:34:52,266
and I'm just concerned that we only have this one term

1680
01:34:52,567 --> 01:34:54,467
and I think there's other terminology

1681
01:34:54,767 --> 01:34:57,567
and so if we can just add, consider adding a sentence

1682
01:34:57,567 --> 01:35:00,734
that says all other had something

1683
01:35:01,533 --> 01:35:05,000
like this term encompasses all forms of data centers.

1684
01:35:05,033 --> 01:35:09,567
There was, you know, server farms, you know,

1685
01:35:09,567 --> 01:35:11,500
different processing facilities, you know,

1686
01:35:11,834 --> 01:35:16,100
whatever fits under that usage

1687
01:35:16,133 --> 01:35:17,700
definition that we have there.

1688
01:35:18,000 --> 01:35:20,834
So, so that the name is not an obstacle in the future.

1689
01:35:25,367 --> 01:35:28,867
- Okay. - If I may one more of course might be a,

1690
01:35:28,867 --> 01:35:31,000
a moot point, but how does this amendment interact with

1691
01:35:31,834 --> 01:35:33,734
and of the discussion about proposed

1692
01:35:34,166 --> 01:35:36,767
shared land use agreement with the other townships?

1693
01:35:37,867 --> 01:35:39,867
Does that obligate other townships

1694
01:35:40,066 --> 01:35:41,834
to have similar ordinances

1695
01:35:42,000 --> 01:35:47,033
or to have a different one that's like complimentary if

1696
01:35:47,033 --> 01:35:48,467
that's not the discussion at this level

1697
01:35:48,467 --> 01:35:50,300
of plain personal, that's fine. I don I don't,

1698
01:35:51,033 --> 01:35:52,000
- I don't think, I don't think it does.

1699
01:35:52,300 --> 01:35:56,133
I mean we have ours, but if we have a shared group

1700
01:35:57,033 --> 01:35:59,533
and if, if it were to be something were to

1701
01:36:00,433 --> 01:36:04,000
be developed in College Township, they're gonna have

1702
01:36:04,000 --> 01:36:05,533
to meet the requirements of college Township.

1703
01:36:07,100 --> 01:36:08,734
- Well, so the other townships are still at liberty

1704
01:36:08,767 --> 01:36:10,033
to write whatever Ordinance they'd like,

1705
01:36:10,133 --> 01:36:11,934
even if we have a shared use agreement.

1706
01:36:13,634 --> 01:36:18,000
- The shared use agreements have to be, it's a formal,

1707
01:36:19,033 --> 01:36:21,033
it is a formal agreement, it's written up with,

1708
01:36:21,166 --> 01:36:23,467
with another municipality and says,

1709
01:36:23,700 --> 01:36:26,266
and what it usually is is a trade-offs that where,

1710
01:36:26,567 --> 01:36:29,867
where another, the other municipality says, okay,

1711
01:36:29,900 --> 01:36:31,133
we'll take your data center

1712
01:36:31,033 --> 01:36:34,266
but you have to take our share of, you know, it it,

1713
01:36:34,300 --> 01:36:35,834
it is a swap back and forth

1714
01:36:36,000 --> 01:36:37,934
and it has to be in place beforehand.

1715
01:36:38,900 --> 01:36:41,133
It's you, you can't just say, you know, well,

1716
01:36:41,133 --> 01:36:44,233
well we have an agreement with Patent Township if,

1717
01:36:44,300 --> 01:36:48,467
if we don't, and it's specific to help me out.

1718
01:36:49,000 --> 01:36:52,700
It's specific to this use versus that use.

1719
01:36:55,000 --> 01:36:59,667
I think my comment Nick, in relation to this is

1720
01:37:00,533 --> 01:37:04,300
looking forward right now

1721
01:37:05,100 --> 01:37:10,000
it's in the municipalities, all of 'em in the Centre Region

1722
01:37:11,100 --> 01:37:12,133
to protect themselves

1723
01:37:13,300 --> 01:37:18,233
and we're kind of in a protect ourselves mode with regard to

1724
01:37:19,000 --> 01:37:22,233
the design and us having our own standalone Ordinance.

1725
01:37:24,100 --> 01:37:26,533
College Township has its

1726
01:37:28,033 --> 01:37:31,367
patent Township is in a shared use agreement

1727
01:37:31,734 --> 01:37:33,000
with College Township.

1728
01:37:39,367 --> 01:37:43,500
It's my vision that this whole discussion

1729
01:37:44,233 --> 01:37:47,834
really needs to be that the region

1730
01:37:49,033 --> 01:37:52,634
has a similar Ordinance

1731
01:37:53,100 --> 01:37:55,066
to cover the all five municipalities

1732
01:37:56,100 --> 01:38:00,500
because we share so much of the resources.

1733
01:38:01,266 --> 01:38:06,066
The water isn't Ferguson townships, it's the regions

1734
01:38:07,433 --> 01:38:10,834
and, and the electricity coming in.

1735
01:38:11,000 --> 01:38:16,066
We've got the university and its capacities and

1736
01:38:16,266 --> 01:38:19,567
and we share in in a lot of things.

1737
01:38:20,934 --> 01:38:23,300
So it's my thought that that

1738
01:38:25,266 --> 01:38:29,100
eventually there may be enough consensus

1739
01:38:29,634 --> 01:38:31,033
between the townships

1740
01:38:32,734 --> 01:38:37,033
to actually have a regional position with regard

1741
01:38:37,033 --> 01:38:40,734
to data centers, but we can't start there.

1742
01:38:41,700 --> 01:38:46,233
I think we have the obligation to protect Ferguson Township

1743
01:38:46,867 --> 01:38:50,000
independent of all the others and,

1744
01:38:50,266 --> 01:38:54,767
and I think that's what this is doing

1745
01:38:55,133 --> 01:38:56,433
for us at the moment.

1746
01:38:58,567 --> 01:39:00,734
- I understand. Okay. That's the priority.

1747
01:39:01,333 --> 01:39:06,066
- I also, I also heard a, a discussion about a week ago

1748
01:39:09,100 --> 01:39:13,033
where farmland

1749
01:39:13,133 --> 01:39:17,533
of course is being used in some states as

1750
01:39:18,100 --> 01:39:19,867
good source of location.

1751
01:39:20,667 --> 01:39:23,033
It's in the middle of nowhere, it's flat

1752
01:39:23,000 --> 01:39:27,934
and all of those things, the amounts

1753
01:39:27,934 --> 01:39:32,100
of money being offered to purchase

1754
01:39:33,033 --> 01:39:37,033
farmland in this country is huge.

1755
01:39:39,533 --> 01:39:43,033
Walking away as a farmer getting up

1756
01:39:43,033 --> 01:39:45,133
and milking cows seven days a week

1757
01:39:45,133 --> 01:39:50,000
or whatever, looking at a hundred fold,

1758
01:39:51,266 --> 01:39:55,867
what they would get for their farmland is the kind

1759
01:39:55,867 --> 01:39:59,166
of money being thrown around nationwide

1760
01:39:59,634 --> 01:40:04,100
to buy properties and, and so it's significant

1761
01:40:04,500 --> 01:40:08,100
and that's why I think it's imperative that we do

1762
01:40:08,100 --> 01:40:12,000
what we're doing right now and that is protecting ourselves.

1763
01:40:13,367 --> 01:40:17,100
We're fortunate in this Township to have some protections

1764
01:40:18,066 --> 01:40:20,634
of our farmland that a lot of places don't have

1765
01:40:20,634 --> 01:40:24,700
because they don't even have Zoning. Okay.

1766
01:40:25,266 --> 01:40:27,100
- Yes sir. Sorry Mr. Chairman, my last point,

1767
01:40:27,266 --> 01:40:29,266
and again this might be out of the purview

1768
01:40:29,266 --> 01:40:31,834
of the planning commission, perhaps the Township has never

1769
01:40:31,934 --> 01:40:34,300
had an a situation where there was a lack

1770
01:40:34,300 --> 01:40:35,867
of faith in an engineer's report.

1771
01:40:36,100 --> 01:40:38,567
It's going back to the discussion about engineers, tons

1772
01:40:38,567 --> 01:40:41,634
of money being thrown around, heaven forbid someone's bribe.

1773
01:40:42,767 --> 01:40:44,867
Perhaps we need to have some sort of written protocol.

1774
01:40:45,233 --> 01:40:47,066
Maybe it's something the board of Supervisors needs

1775
01:40:47,066 --> 01:40:50,266
to discuss for dealing with some bad lack

1776
01:40:50,266 --> 01:40:52,000
of faith in an engineer's report

1777
01:40:52,500 --> 01:40:55,233
and how to, how to resolve that.

1778
01:41:01,567 --> 01:41:03,934
Yeah, I don't, I don't know what so route is to take to that

1779
01:41:03,934 --> 01:41:07,033
or who to even propose it to, but just

1780
01:41:07,033 --> 01:41:08,066
because it hasn't happened here.

1781
01:41:08,867 --> 01:41:12,066
- Just, just to one thing out consistent with

1782
01:41:12,066 --> 01:41:16,634
what other areas possibility of providing

1783
01:41:17,133 --> 01:41:20,934
the developer be responsible for the cost of our

1784
01:41:22,033 --> 01:41:27,100
employing some an engineer to review, not to do

1785
01:41:27,133 --> 01:41:30,000
but to, to review the plans or something like that.

1786
01:41:31,834 --> 01:41:34,300
Just is just a thought. Okay.

1787
01:41:36,100 --> 01:41:39,166
Is there insurance that

1788
01:41:40,367 --> 01:41:41,433
somebody can take out?

1789
01:41:42,100 --> 01:41:43,066
Errors in omissions

1790
01:41:43,100 --> 01:41:48,033
or, well, the engineer's gonna have errors what we

1791
01:41:48,900 --> 01:41:50,500
commonly would refer to as malpractice,

1792
01:41:50,767 --> 01:41:53,033
but errors in omission, I mean clearly

1793
01:41:53,467 --> 01:41:55,033
that would be a requirement.

1794
01:41:56,567 --> 01:41:59,233
Okay. You people have been very patient.

1795
01:42:00,767 --> 01:42:02,033
I didn't have, there's no order,

1796
01:42:02,333 --> 01:42:04,300
but if you would like to come forward

1797
01:42:05,133 --> 01:42:07,934
and identify yourself, make your comment

1798
01:42:08,100 --> 01:42:12,033
or raise your question and we will move forward.

1799
01:42:12,867 --> 01:42:16,033
Ho, if your thoughts

1800
01:42:16,133 --> 01:42:21,000
and comments would be similar to thoughts

1801
01:42:21,000 --> 01:42:24,166
or comments that have already been made, if you would simply

1802
01:42:25,133 --> 01:42:29,367
let us know who you are and that you do agree with

1803
01:42:29,433 --> 01:42:31,667
or whatever so that we don't have a lot

1804
01:42:31,667 --> 01:42:34,567
of repetition. Yes sir. Thank

1805
01:42:34,567 --> 01:42:35,567
- You.

1806
01:42:35,567 --> 01:42:36,033
I appreciate the opportunity.

1807
01:42:36,066 --> 01:42:39,100
My name is Dave Craig, I'm a resident of Burson Township.

1808
01:42:39,767 --> 01:42:41,367
I represent Greenleaf Manor,

1809
01:42:41,734 --> 01:42:43,867
planned residential neighborhood, very close to here.

1810
01:42:44,834 --> 01:42:47,767
I appreciate all of you learning a lot about this topic

1811
01:42:47,934 --> 01:42:51,033
and working to make this place a nice place to live.

1812
01:42:51,166 --> 01:42:53,133
I think that's what we're all trying to do here, right?

1813
01:42:53,233 --> 01:42:57,066
Is just to protect having this be a nice place to live.

1814
01:42:57,700 --> 01:43:01,867
So similar, just I'll throw out four topics,

1815
01:43:02,500 --> 01:43:03,734
I don't need an answer, but I think

1816
01:43:03,734 --> 01:43:04,867
they're good things to talk about.

1817
01:43:06,066 --> 01:43:09,033
The first is just the concept of these size categories.

1818
01:43:10,000 --> 01:43:11,100
I think you were right to,

1819
01:43:11,567 --> 01:43:12,734
and the group has been right

1820
01:43:12,734 --> 01:43:14,533
to think about differentiating further

1821
01:43:14,900 --> 01:43:16,333
and maybe push some of these

1822
01:43:17,000 --> 01:43:20,567
larger things into more towards the industrial side

1823
01:43:21,000 --> 01:43:23,033
and just not discount the size.

1824
01:43:23,000 --> 01:43:25,634
So when we say zero to 5,000 square feet,

1825
01:43:26,433 --> 01:43:30,133
the picture there was of a closet that looked to me

1826
01:43:30,133 --> 01:43:33,233
to be about eight or 10 square feet.

1827
01:43:34,033 --> 01:43:35,867
5,000 is a lot more than that, right?

1828
01:43:35,867 --> 01:43:37,367
If I had a 5,000 square foot home,

1829
01:43:37,533 --> 01:43:38,934
I would be very happy and very rich.

1830
01:43:38,934 --> 01:43:39,934
That's a very big building.

1831
01:43:40,266 --> 01:43:43,834
And if you filled that all up with industrial equipment,

1832
01:43:44,734 --> 01:43:47,100
it would make a lot of noise, it would consume a lot

1833
01:43:47,100 --> 01:43:48,634
of power, it would consume a lot of water.

1834
01:43:48,700 --> 01:43:50,867
So don't discount when we say small,

1835
01:43:51,734 --> 01:43:53,033
that small is pretty big.

1836
01:43:53,634 --> 01:43:55,300
So let's think about those categories.

1837
01:43:56,934 --> 01:44:00,533
I also have concerns about, so that's 0.1, 0.2,

1838
01:44:01,467 --> 01:44:03,767
I have concerns about the narrow language

1839
01:44:03,767 --> 01:44:06,133
that we're talking just about data centers.

1840
01:44:06,300 --> 01:44:09,667
I appreciate what you said about can we use other terms

1841
01:44:09,834 --> 01:44:11,133
and anticipate other terms

1842
01:44:11,867 --> 01:44:16,133
because data center is just one term, it's just one type

1843
01:44:16,133 --> 01:44:17,266
of factory that's popular

1844
01:44:17,567 --> 01:44:19,767
to talk about right now, but just a factory.

1845
01:44:20,900 --> 01:44:23,300
So what if somebody wants to build a cement plant

1846
01:44:23,433 --> 01:44:26,066
or a lumber yard or some other type of factory?

1847
01:44:27,634 --> 01:44:29,433
Can they make as much noise as they want?

1848
01:44:29,500 --> 01:44:32,233
Can they consume as much electricity and water as they want

1849
01:44:32,233 --> 01:44:34,700
because they're not building a data center?

1850
01:44:35,834 --> 01:44:38,000
Or if they find some other terminology, oh,

1851
01:44:38,000 --> 01:44:40,000
this isn't a data center, this is a computing center,

1852
01:44:40,066 --> 01:44:41,767
this is a AI center, whatever.

1853
01:44:42,033 --> 01:44:45,700
Just wanna make sure that somebody building any type

1854
01:44:45,700 --> 01:44:49,033
of factory would be held to these standards

1855
01:44:49,100 --> 01:44:50,667
to keep this a nice place to live.

1856
01:44:50,667 --> 01:44:53,767
And not put out dirty pollution, not put out noise,

1857
01:44:54,100 --> 01:44:57,033
not consume water, not consume an egregious amount

1858
01:44:57,033 --> 01:44:59,066
of electricity for any kind of factory, right?

1859
01:44:59,133 --> 01:45:03,133
Not just data centers. That's 0.2, 0.3.

1860
01:45:04,100 --> 01:45:05,834
I happen to know a lot about noise.

1861
01:45:05,934 --> 01:45:07,867
I've talked to staff about noise and vibration.

1862
01:45:07,900 --> 01:45:10,000
I work for a company that does this kind of stuff

1863
01:45:11,000 --> 01:45:13,834
I've mentioned before and I still have concerns about the

1864
01:45:13,834 --> 01:45:17,166
fact that the primary measurements we're talking about here

1865
01:45:17,300 --> 01:45:20,500
are an a weighted sound measurement.

1866
01:45:21,033 --> 01:45:23,333
I really believe that's the wrong thing to be measuring.

1867
01:45:24,667 --> 01:45:28,834
A weighted sound heavily focuses on sound between

1868
01:45:29,433 --> 01:45:31,834
1000 and 6,000 hertz.

1869
01:45:32,567 --> 01:45:35,834
These are loud high frequency noises.

1870
01:45:35,834 --> 01:45:39,433
There's things like sirens, you know, high frequency noises,

1871
01:45:40,266 --> 01:45:42,567
the noise that's gonna be emitted by a data center

1872
01:45:43,100 --> 01:45:44,100
by any other kind of factory

1873
01:45:44,734 --> 01:45:46,567
or by college kids having a party

1874
01:45:47,100 --> 01:45:49,934
or by a car driving by with its base pumping.

1875
01:45:50,667 --> 01:45:53,767
It is going to be low frequency noise that's going

1876
01:45:53,767 --> 01:45:55,867
to bother people, that's gonna shake their homes,

1877
01:45:56,100 --> 01:45:59,000
that's gonna disrupt pets, that's gonna disrupt wildlife.

1878
01:45:59,634 --> 01:46:02,934
It's not gonna be noise in the killer hertz range.

1879
01:46:03,667 --> 01:46:07,066
It's gonna be noise in the tens to hundreds of hertz.

1880
01:46:07,934 --> 01:46:11,567
So why are we using a measurement that specifically

1881
01:46:13,000 --> 01:46:14,266
discounts that kind of noise

1882
01:46:15,066 --> 01:46:17,333
and focuses on high frequency noise instead?

1883
01:46:18,567 --> 01:46:20,767
I think we're fundamentally measuring in the wrong thing.

1884
01:46:21,100 --> 01:46:23,634
What should we measure? Well there's things in there

1885
01:46:23,634 --> 01:46:25,033
mentioning C weighting.

1886
01:46:25,033 --> 01:46:27,300
So C weighting is a little bit broader, right?

1887
01:46:27,533 --> 01:46:28,634
A weighting is very narrow.

1888
01:46:28,867 --> 01:46:30,900
It's from 1,006,000 hertz roughly,

1889
01:46:31,367 --> 01:46:33,634
and things outside that are heavily discounted.

1890
01:46:34,367 --> 01:46:36,367
C weighting is a little bit broader.

1891
01:46:37,867 --> 01:46:41,500
And then Z weighting is total encompasses everything,

1892
01:46:41,634 --> 01:46:42,900
the entire sound spectrum.

1893
01:46:43,767 --> 01:46:46,667
So I really think we should be looking at C

1894
01:46:46,867 --> 01:46:49,634
or Z weighting as a primary measurement.

1895
01:46:50,133 --> 01:46:52,300
I know there's some stuff written there saying the C

1896
01:46:52,300 --> 01:46:55,100
weighted measurement can't be more than 10 decibels more

1897
01:46:55,100 --> 01:46:56,333
than a weighted measurement.

1898
01:46:56,333 --> 01:46:57,500
There's some language in there,

1899
01:46:58,533 --> 01:47:01,367
but we're kind of like a couple steps away from the truth.

1900
01:47:02,100 --> 01:47:04,433
Like we should just be measuring the full sound spectrum

1901
01:47:05,100 --> 01:47:07,900
instead of measuring a narrow portion of it

1902
01:47:07,934 --> 01:47:09,500
that probably doesn't matter.

1903
01:47:10,133 --> 01:47:13,233
And then having some auxiliary clauses to like add to that.

1904
01:47:14,133 --> 01:47:15,533
I think we're measuring the wrong thing.

1905
01:47:17,000 --> 01:47:20,133
And then my fourth point, when this all started,

1906
01:47:20,233 --> 01:47:21,266
I know a lot, there was a lot

1907
01:47:21,266 --> 01:47:24,533
of information gathering different other communities there

1908
01:47:24,567 --> 01:47:26,467
instances, things like that to use

1909
01:47:26,467 --> 01:47:28,133
as reference materials, which is great.

1910
01:47:29,000 --> 01:47:31,300
Some of the language was presented from Chester

1911
01:47:31,533 --> 01:47:32,667
and Montgomery Counties.

1912
01:47:34,000 --> 01:47:36,433
The, again, a weighted measurements, which I again,

1913
01:47:36,433 --> 01:47:39,266
I think is the wrong thing, but their measurements were,

1914
01:47:39,900 --> 01:47:42,467
their limits were 45 decibels

1915
01:47:43,066 --> 01:47:46,934
during daytime hours, 40 decibels

1916
01:47:46,934 --> 01:47:48,066
during nighttime hours.

1917
01:47:49,500 --> 01:47:53,367
So 45 and 40, the proposed language here

1918
01:47:54,000 --> 01:47:55,033
is 55

1919
01:47:55,166 --> 01:47:57,867
and 50 10 decibels higher,

1920
01:47:59,834 --> 01:48:04,000
10 decibels equates to human ears,

1921
01:48:04,834 --> 01:48:06,867
10 decibels is twice as loud.

1922
01:48:08,367 --> 01:48:10,834
So my question is, why was it decided

1923
01:48:10,900 --> 01:48:15,533
that Ferguson Township residents deserve to be exposed

1924
01:48:15,700 --> 01:48:19,100
to noise twice as loud as

1925
01:48:19,100 --> 01:48:21,834
what is allowed in a more urban area like Philadelphia?

1926
01:48:23,166 --> 01:48:24,767
I think that's an interesting question.

1927
01:48:26,066 --> 01:48:28,066
That's all. Thank you.

1928
01:48:28,867 --> 01:48:32,100
- Thank you. Okay,

1929
01:48:39,533 --> 01:48:40,533
- Mr.

1930
01:48:40,533 --> 01:48:41,066
Chairman, I'd just like to point out this is,

1931
01:48:41,233 --> 01:48:43,734
I think the third time this gentleman has brought up the

1932
01:48:43,734 --> 01:48:46,233
same point and it seems like haven't really given him any

1933
01:48:46,433 --> 01:48:47,467
resolution yet as to whether

1934
01:48:47,467 --> 01:48:49,467
or not we're gonna change those decal limits.

1935
01:48:50,700 --> 01:48:53,500
I think he deserves something from us on that.

1936
01:48:54,734 --> 01:48:57,734
- I think Kim, Kim, you you want to,

1937
01:49:00,467 --> 01:49:02,033
- I'll just briefly

1938
01:49:02,133 --> 01:49:04,834
and Pedro has a more detailed explanation.

1939
01:49:04,934 --> 01:49:06,634
We did meet, we have looked at that.

1940
01:49:08,133 --> 01:49:10,533
If you look at what we have now, that is much less,

1941
01:49:10,667 --> 01:49:13,500
we went down 10 points that would've been down to 20 points.

1942
01:49:14,367 --> 01:49:18,133
What we're combating is you have, what we have now is

1943
01:49:18,634 --> 01:49:21,767
even if it is outdated, it is consistent with

1944
01:49:21,767 --> 01:49:23,867
what you see at a national level.

1945
01:49:24,000 --> 01:49:26,533
So if you were to do a sound study of all these existing,

1946
01:49:27,233 --> 01:49:28,634
like whatever we have right now,

1947
01:49:29,500 --> 01:49:32,767
everybody is then gonna have to drop their decibels,

1948
01:49:33,000 --> 01:49:36,900
drop their sound from their existing baseline.

1949
01:49:37,767 --> 01:49:39,934
So this was kind of meant to be sort

1950
01:49:39,934 --> 01:49:41,000
of like an incremental change.

1951
01:49:41,667 --> 01:49:44,467
But lemme let Pedro talk. We did consider this,

1952
01:49:45,266 --> 01:49:49,066
- Yes, we did have, as in, as Kim mentioned, we did meet

1953
01:49:49,066 --> 01:49:52,233
with Mr. Craig and he gave us a lot of information

1954
01:49:52,233 --> 01:49:55,867
that we actually incorporated in this Ordinance.

1955
01:49:56,133 --> 01:50:00,934
And compared our, our Ordinance,

1956
01:50:01,266 --> 01:50:05,300
our draft Ordinance compared to any other Ordinance,

1957
01:50:05,500 --> 01:50:09,567
to be completely honest, is a great improvement.

1958
01:50:10,066 --> 01:50:13,133
And you can obviously be improved even further.

1959
01:50:14,133 --> 01:50:18,567
What we currently have for decibels in our current Ordinance

1960
01:50:18,634 --> 01:50:22,000
as it's written, is 55 for residents show

1961
01:50:22,100 --> 01:50:26,033
and 62 decibels in the eight weighted scale for,

1962
01:50:27,700 --> 01:50:29,934
for industrial, the Ordinance also,

1963
01:50:31,033 --> 01:50:33,734
this is also an opportunity that we took for us

1964
01:50:33,734 --> 01:50:36,700
to improve the, the, the township's noise Ordinance

1965
01:50:37,100 --> 01:50:40,867
where it was ambiguous, whether 65 or 62

1966
01:50:41,000 --> 01:50:45,834
and 55 were applicable to which district, which boundaries

1967
01:50:46,000 --> 01:50:50,367
or this new Ordinance clarifies and cleans up that language

1968
01:50:50,634 --> 01:50:52,934
and makes it, it makes it obvious

1969
01:50:53,000 --> 01:50:57,467
that the 55 is within the border of, of, of,

1970
01:50:57,467 --> 01:50:59,533
of residential and, and industrial

1971
01:51:00,066 --> 01:51:02,500
or any other, any other board

1972
01:51:02,500 --> 01:51:05,133
or any other district bordering a residential district.

1973
01:51:05,900 --> 01:51:10,533
And these numbers are to be held for the tap, for the,

1974
01:51:10,567 --> 01:51:13,100
or for the district that's receiving the noise.

1975
01:51:14,000 --> 01:51:19,000
And so point that we added was that within the, the,

1976
01:51:19,033 --> 01:51:23,667
the, the scale of measurements on a weighted scale,

1977
01:51:24,000 --> 01:51:27,533
we did incorporate language for c weighted scales where

1978
01:51:29,033 --> 01:51:31,133
regardless of, of where you are measuring,

1979
01:51:31,133 --> 01:51:35,233
of which band you're measuring the noise from the, the, the,

1980
01:51:35,667 --> 01:51:40,166
the A weight, the c weighted scale cannot be larger than 10

1981
01:51:40,300 --> 01:51:43,500
decibels compared to its equivalent a weighted scale.

1982
01:51:44,066 --> 01:51:48,767
So which means if the, if the all of those areas,

1983
01:51:49,066 --> 01:51:52,934
all of those areas of low frequency where a, a, a,

1984
01:51:53,100 --> 01:51:55,133
a weighted scale cannot capture, but a

1985
01:51:55,133 --> 01:51:59,266
but a c weighted scale does capture those numbers with

1986
01:51:59,266 --> 01:52:01,233
that differential that we put in place.

1987
01:52:02,033 --> 01:52:04,433
Anything above a difference of 10

1988
01:52:05,133 --> 01:52:08,066
vegetables would be considered not approval by, by,

1989
01:52:08,266 --> 01:52:09,266
by this Ordinance.

1990
01:52:09,667 --> 01:52:14,000
But obviously we can continue receiving more feedback on

1991
01:52:14,000 --> 01:52:17,266
things that might be, that we can improve this Ordinance.

1992
01:52:17,867 --> 01:52:18,900
And another thing

1993
01:52:18,900 --> 01:52:23,767
that we incorporated in this Ordinance was the tonal element

1994
01:52:24,066 --> 01:52:27,934
where if there's, is this, if it's being determined

1995
01:52:27,934 --> 01:52:29,700
that there's a tone in this

1996
01:52:29,700 --> 01:52:33,433
or a tone is, is a variation,

1997
01:52:34,033 --> 01:52:37,700
sharp variation of the noise in when there's a steady

1998
01:52:38,100 --> 01:52:39,133
continuous noise

1999
01:52:39,133 --> 01:52:43,734
and there's a sharp, like if, if this is was a a a if this

2000
01:52:44,467 --> 01:52:46,667
this normal noise that we are making here

2001
01:52:47,066 --> 01:52:50,900
and then maybe a sound like the door is constantly banging,

2002
01:52:51,033 --> 01:52:53,700
that will be captured by that tone of noise

2003
01:52:53,867 --> 01:52:57,266
and who's to determine that whether a noise is tonal or not.

2004
01:52:57,667 --> 01:53:00,467
The Ordinance also we, that we place here that counts for

2005
01:53:00,467 --> 01:53:03,634
that which, and an engineer will be able to determine that.

2006
01:53:03,734 --> 01:53:06,533
And once that is determined, then a cap

2007
01:53:06,667 --> 01:53:10,233
or a an additional penalty of five decibel will be imposed

2008
01:53:10,867 --> 01:53:15,066
into in, in whatever development, in whatever application

2009
01:53:15,066 --> 01:53:16,900
that we are receiving on the Township.

2010
01:53:17,300 --> 01:53:21,300
So if you look into the, the way

2011
01:53:22,533 --> 01:53:26,934
noise is measured across the industry, there is no consensus

2012
01:53:27,066 --> 01:53:29,233
of which scale is better than the other.

2013
01:53:29,934 --> 01:53:33,634
And I believe Mr. Craig, I'm, I'm not sure if, if I'm wrong,

2014
01:53:33,634 --> 01:53:37,467
correct me, there is no consensus in, in the entire industry

2015
01:53:38,000 --> 01:53:41,834
for to say C is better than anything else.

2016
01:53:42,133 --> 01:53:46,266
However, those, those scales can be applied

2017
01:53:46,333 --> 01:53:50,533
for specific types of, of noise that is most common to the,

2018
01:53:50,567 --> 01:53:53,033
and depending on the geography of of of, of

2019
01:53:53,133 --> 01:53:55,033
where you are measuring, right?

2020
01:53:55,133 --> 01:53:58,867
This is a Township being a Zoning Ordinance.

2021
01:53:59,333 --> 01:54:01,767
The most common noises that that, that,

2022
01:54:01,900 --> 01:54:03,467
that could be enforce,

2023
01:54:03,567 --> 01:54:06,367
that could be common in the Township are cars,

2024
01:54:07,133 --> 01:54:11,100
our generators, our our all of these industrial noises

2025
01:54:11,133 --> 01:54:12,867
that Mr. Craig mentioned.

2026
01:54:13,133 --> 01:54:15,467
Which is why if you look into any

2027
01:54:15,734 --> 01:54:19,700
or most Zoning ordinances across the country, you will see

2028
01:54:19,700 --> 01:54:23,934
that the most common used scale is a weighted scale.

2029
01:54:24,100 --> 01:54:26,000
However, we acknowledge that

2030
01:54:26,567 --> 01:54:28,867
a weighted scale doesn't capture all of the noise,

2031
01:54:28,934 --> 01:54:32,066
which is why we incorporated at this, attempted

2032
01:54:32,000 --> 01:54:34,767
to incorporate sea weighted scales

2033
01:54:35,066 --> 01:54:37,533
and tone weight, internal noise

2034
01:54:37,934 --> 01:54:39,634
attenuations in this Ordinance.

2035
01:54:40,066 --> 01:54:44,066
So I believe this has already improved just for the draft.

2036
01:54:44,066 --> 01:54:45,834
This already is an improvement to

2037
01:54:45,834 --> 01:54:47,500
what the Ordinance currently is.

2038
01:54:48,000 --> 01:54:50,100
And as we receive more

2039
01:54:50,133 --> 01:54:52,634
and more feedback, we can continue to improve

2040
01:54:52,834 --> 01:54:54,500
and incorporate more things to

2041
01:54:55,567 --> 01:54:57,066
continue improving this Ordinance.

2042
01:54:57,900 --> 01:54:59,000
- Okay. I believe,

2043
01:54:59,066 --> 01:55:00,133
and correct me if I'm wrong,

2044
01:55:00,667 --> 01:55:04,000
that the question is why are we at 55 and not 45?

2045
01:55:04,133 --> 01:55:06,367
Is that the point you were making?

2046
01:55:06,734 --> 01:55:10,367
- Yes. That question was sort of answered by Kim, where

2047
01:55:10,700 --> 01:55:14,333
as we look into the ordinances across from all of those

2048
01:55:14,333 --> 01:55:17,100
that we saw, there is, there is no

2049
01:55:17,900 --> 01:55:22,066
cer there is no specific number that like 40, 40 decibels

2050
01:55:22,066 --> 01:55:25,233
for this, for for residential or 50 or 65.

2051
01:55:25,233 --> 01:55:28,033
There's no consensus in the number.

2052
01:55:28,467 --> 01:55:32,867
And we saw that 55 was already a,

2053
01:55:33,834 --> 01:55:36,767
was already what's in the Ordinance, what the previous board

2054
01:55:36,767 --> 01:55:38,333
of supervisor had had approved.

2055
01:55:38,734 --> 01:55:42,000
So we incorporated that same number with, with the penalty

2056
01:55:42,000 --> 01:55:44,100
of five decibels in case of a tone.

2057
01:55:44,300 --> 01:55:49,133
However, this is not a set number that the, the staff chose.

2058
01:55:49,133 --> 01:55:51,266
Therefore that has to be, this is not,

2059
01:55:51,300 --> 01:55:52,734
this is not what's happening here,

2060
01:55:52,734 --> 01:55:54,066
which is why we having this meeting

2061
01:55:54,734 --> 01:55:57,767
when these decisions will be made by the board,

2062
01:55:57,767 --> 01:56:00,867
this decision will be made as we receive feedback that if

2063
01:56:01,433 --> 01:56:05,467
the, the board suggests, no, we don't want 55 lower to 50

2064
01:56:05,567 --> 01:56:08,734
to 40, we are gonna do that because this is a canvas

2065
01:56:09,000 --> 01:56:12,367
or this is a blanket or a starting point for the,

2066
01:56:12,433 --> 01:56:13,634
for, for the Ordinance.

2067
01:56:13,700 --> 01:56:17,100
We have to start somewhere and then we receive feedback

2068
01:56:17,166 --> 01:56:19,000
and we make change.

2069
01:56:20,834 --> 01:56:21,834
- And, and when we're,

2070
01:56:21,867 --> 01:56:25,767
we're talking about this particular thing, are we limiting

2071
01:56:27,066 --> 01:56:30,333
the standard to our

2072
01:56:31,000 --> 01:56:32,266
industrial zone

2073
01:56:32,734 --> 01:56:36,266
or are we saying that the standard is now

2074
01:56:37,033 --> 01:56:39,500
every zone in the Township?

2075
01:56:40,333 --> 01:56:42,233
- As in the noise level? Yes.

2076
01:56:42,667 --> 01:56:45,634
The noise level as we proposed in Ordinance,

2077
01:56:45,867 --> 01:56:48,233
I don't think you can see it, it's on page.

2078
01:56:49,000 --> 01:56:53,634
Page 15 is measured at the boundary

2079
01:56:54,467 --> 01:56:56,634
of, of the, of the property boundary.

2080
01:56:58,133 --> 01:57:00,734
So being 60 for commercial

2081
01:57:01,133 --> 01:57:03,433
and 62 for industrial

2082
01:57:03,900 --> 01:57:08,066
and residential, depending on the, the daytime is 50 for,

2083
01:57:08,533 --> 01:57:13,100
for daytime and, and 55 for daytime and 54 nighttime.

2084
01:57:19,533 --> 01:57:21,266
And the previous previous Ordinance Ordinance did,

2085
01:57:21,367 --> 01:57:22,467
did not have this,

2086
01:57:24,100 --> 01:57:27,033
does not current current have currentness Ordinance does,

2087
01:57:27,033 --> 01:57:30,734
does not have have this, this reduction

2088
01:57:30,734 --> 01:57:34,533
of de dele 55 fives as specified night nine at all.

2089
01:57:34,533 --> 01:57:38,033
At all. Which we believe we thought was an improvement

2090
01:57:38,033 --> 01:57:39,000
to what we currently have.

2091
01:57:39,100 --> 01:57:41,133
But it can, if it can be improved further,

2092
01:57:41,266 --> 01:57:42,900
then this is why we are here.

2093
01:57:43,533 --> 01:57:46,934
- And, and I guess in relation to that,

2094
01:57:50,367 --> 01:57:54,066
My next question would be do we have a sense of

2095
01:57:54,133 --> 01:57:58,367
what the impact will be by changing

2096
01:57:59,000 --> 01:58:03,100
this in, in some

2097
01:58:03,100 --> 01:58:04,066
of our other zones?

2098
01:58:04,500 --> 01:58:09,233
In other words, do we're changing it with,

2099
01:58:09,266 --> 01:58:14,066
with a, with an emphasis on the, the industrial kind

2100
01:58:14,066 --> 01:58:16,533
of area and the whole discussion,

2101
01:58:17,367 --> 01:58:20,834
but I routinely see complaints

2102
01:58:21,467 --> 01:58:23,634
and hear about complaints all the time.

2103
01:58:25,533 --> 01:58:29,567
Somebody's running a leaf blower at seven o'clock at night

2104
01:58:30,166 --> 01:58:32,634
and that goes across

2105
01:58:33,500 --> 01:58:35,767
property lines at significant decibels.

2106
01:58:36,100 --> 01:58:41,066
And so I I wanna make sure that, that we're,

2107
01:58:42,133 --> 01:58:46,166
we're not having an

2108
01:58:46,867 --> 01:58:51,266
unintended consequence with regard to

2109
01:58:52,500 --> 01:58:56,033
our setting of these decibels, you know, across the board.

2110
01:58:56,500 --> 01:59:01,233
Okay. Unintended consequences frequently come back

2111
01:59:01,300 --> 01:59:05,834
to, to really hurt good intentions.

2112
01:59:07,100 --> 01:59:08,033
And, and I think

2113
01:59:08,033 --> 01:59:11,066
that when one is designing something like this,

2114
01:59:11,500 --> 01:59:15,634
I think one has to pass the, the wording

2115
01:59:17,000 --> 01:59:20,867
by the unintended consequences person

2116
01:59:22,166 --> 01:59:23,266
to, to take a look

2117
01:59:23,266 --> 01:59:25,500
and see what is the consequence of this

2118
01:59:26,133 --> 01:59:27,834
in other environments

2119
01:59:29,033 --> 01:59:33,767
- For specifically this draft, there's a different section

2120
01:59:34,066 --> 01:59:37,500
that deals with noise produced by

2121
01:59:40,233 --> 01:59:43,734
electrical equipment that isn't, that isn't considered

2122
01:59:44,233 --> 01:59:48,900
property like, like a fixed prop element of the property.

2123
01:59:49,100 --> 01:59:53,634
Okay. So because we were attempting to amend the, the,

2124
01:59:53,767 --> 01:59:55,667
the noise Ordinance for the purpose

2125
01:59:55,867 --> 01:59:57,867
of incorporating data centers

2126
01:59:58,133 --> 02:00:02,100
and all other industrial noises, we did not

2127
02:00:03,300 --> 02:00:06,900
amend or we did not propose an amendment to ch to ch

2128
02:00:07,000 --> 02:00:11,000
to change the, the decibel levels for like leaf blowers

2129
02:00:11,000 --> 02:00:14,033
or alarm or if that is a different section of the Ordinance

2130
02:00:14,033 --> 02:00:15,166
that is on I think,

2131
02:00:15,667 --> 02:00:19,734
well 10.38 or something. I

2132
02:00:19,734 --> 02:00:20,734
- Believe.

2133
02:00:20,734 --> 02:00:23,367
I I appreciate it and the concerns have been raised.

2134
02:00:23,533 --> 02:00:26,634
You've heard 'em and I'd like to move on at this point.

2135
02:00:27,500 --> 02:00:29,100
This gentleman has been very patient.

2136
02:00:29,367 --> 02:00:32,100
I'm not sure, I haven't been willing but I, go ahead.

2137
02:00:32,233 --> 02:00:34,433
Go right ahead sir. Thank

2138
02:00:34,433 --> 02:00:35,433
- You.

2139
02:00:35,433 --> 02:00:36,667
My name is Bob Hershey

2140
02:00:37,100 --> 02:00:40,333
and I live in Fer Township for the last 21 years

2141
02:00:41,834 --> 02:00:44,900
I was a consulting hydrogeologist in the Centre Region

2142
02:00:45,900 --> 02:00:47,033
and across the state.

2143
02:00:47,667 --> 02:00:49,433
So my interest is in the water

2144
02:00:50,033 --> 02:00:54,834
and I guess I have a concern on page 10, item A,

2145
02:00:55,033 --> 02:00:56,166
I'll just read the sentence.

2146
02:00:56,300 --> 02:01:00,734
I have issued approval shall not be granted

2147
02:01:01,467 --> 02:01:03,634
for a day at the center proposing the use

2148
02:01:03,700 --> 02:01:06,166
of groundwater wells springs

2149
02:01:06,266 --> 02:01:09,066
or direct withdrawals from surface water,

2150
02:01:10,100 --> 02:01:11,834
surface water courses.

2151
02:01:12,834 --> 02:01:14,266
I guess my question is twofold.

2152
02:01:14,533 --> 02:01:17,033
First of all, do you have the authority to do that?

2153
02:01:17,367 --> 02:01:18,433
I don't believe you do.

2154
02:01:19,266 --> 02:01:22,066
Second of all, why would you restrict it?

2155
02:01:23,266 --> 02:01:25,166
Why wouldn't you allow somebody

2156
02:01:25,300 --> 02:01:27,367
to provide their own groundwork

2157
02:01:30,734 --> 02:01:35,133
and, and piggybacking on that, the discharge

2158
02:01:35,500 --> 02:01:37,567
that was already brought up, if,

2159
02:01:37,567 --> 02:01:41,066
if they're gonna withdraw gravel water, use it for cooling

2160
02:01:41,133 --> 02:01:43,100
and put it back in the gravel water,

2161
02:01:43,133 --> 02:01:44,467
why would you allow that?

2162
02:01:47,133 --> 02:01:50,634
And the parallel to that would be heat pumps

2163
02:01:50,767 --> 02:01:53,100
or gravel water geothermal wells.

2164
02:01:53,367 --> 02:01:56,634
I don't think you restrict those people withdraw water,

2165
02:01:57,333 --> 02:01:59,233
use it for cooling or heating

2166
02:02:00,066 --> 02:02:01,634
and then put it back in the ground wire.

2167
02:02:02,467 --> 02:02:04,266
So I think you want

2168
02:02:04,266 --> 02:02:06,867
to make sure you don't put yourself in a position

2169
02:02:06,867 --> 02:02:08,100
where you could be sued

2170
02:02:08,433 --> 02:02:10,433
because I think you may have taken some

2171
02:02:10,433 --> 02:02:11,500
authority you don't have.

2172
02:02:14,133 --> 02:02:18,500
- Thank you Mr. And I can we refute do a, a comment

2173
02:02:18,934 --> 02:02:23,467
and B, given Ms v's professional experience,

2174
02:02:23,734 --> 02:02:27,000
certainly something that should be run by our solicitor.

2175
02:02:28,233 --> 02:02:29,900
- And one other note too,

2176
02:02:29,900 --> 02:02:33,000
because you started getting involved in the electricity,

2177
02:02:33,133 --> 02:02:35,333
it's kind of a parallel situation.

2178
02:02:36,033 --> 02:02:40,333
Do you have the authority as a Township to designate

2179
02:02:40,500 --> 02:02:41,634
how they get their power?

2180
02:02:43,000 --> 02:02:44,100
I don't know. That's a question.

2181
02:02:45,166 --> 02:02:48,033
And, and, and if you do, fine.

2182
02:02:48,000 --> 02:02:49,834
If you don't, you're gonna get sued.

2183
02:02:49,934 --> 02:02:51,867
And I pay for the lawyers to defend.

2184
02:02:53,033 --> 02:02:57,000
- I think, I think the Ordinance does provide

2185
02:02:57,100 --> 02:03:01,133
that there is the opportunity for all alternate sources

2186
02:03:01,934 --> 02:03:05,367
of electric, solar, et

2187
02:03:05,367 --> 02:03:06,367
- Cetera.

2188
02:03:06,367 --> 02:03:07,266
But you can't force that.

2189
02:03:08,000 --> 02:03:10,533
- No, no, we definitely, we definitely could not force that.

2190
02:03:10,533 --> 02:03:13,233
- Which I think answers the question that was asked earlier.

2191
02:03:13,867 --> 02:03:16,533
- It yes. That that you you are correct.

2192
02:03:17,133 --> 02:03:18,834
We definitely cannot enforce that.

2193
02:03:18,900 --> 02:03:20,233
- Great. Okay. Thank you.

2194
02:03:23,634 --> 02:03:25,734
- I just didn't need to, didn't to

2195
02:03:27,000 --> 02:03:30,700
- The language says the applicant shall ation the

2196
02:03:31,233 --> 02:03:33,467
electricity utility verifying my

2197
02:03:33,634 --> 02:03:35,467
position specific, which provide

2198
02:03:37,667 --> 02:03:41,066
- It also provide or initial

2199
02:03:41,934 --> 02:03:43,700
provided that you could use.

2200
02:03:43,900 --> 02:03:48,100
So other, other sources that's Yeah, yeah.

2201
02:03:48,033 --> 02:03:53,066
So, so they can, yes

2202
02:03:53,066 --> 02:03:54,066
- Ma'am.

2203
02:03:54,066 --> 02:03:55,066
- Hi, I'm, I'm Rita Lowe

2204
02:03:55,100 --> 02:03:58,066
and I'm a resident here in the, in the Township.

2205
02:03:59,066 --> 02:04:03,233
And first I wanna thank all of you for the amazing amount

2206
02:04:03,233 --> 02:04:04,734
of work you've already put into this

2207
02:04:04,767 --> 02:04:08,266
because that's why I came to, I really wanted to know what

2208
02:04:08,734 --> 02:04:11,367
what has been thought of along the way.

2209
02:04:11,500 --> 02:04:14,066
But you've, you've done so much already,

2210
02:04:14,000 --> 02:04:16,100
which I'm really thrilled to see.

2211
02:04:16,433 --> 02:04:18,767
And I also wanna thank Ms. Holiday.

2212
02:04:20,066 --> 02:04:21,066
I don't know if she's still there.

2213
02:04:21,433 --> 02:04:23,266
- She, she, she's there. She just took her

2214
02:04:24,000 --> 02:04:26,700
- For bringing up the health risks.

2215
02:04:27,233 --> 02:04:29,100
I I, I'm here, I'm sorry. Yes, yes.

2216
02:04:32,133 --> 02:04:33,300
I'm a healthcare provider

2217
02:04:34,100 --> 02:04:37,467
and I happen to live with someone who has hearing loss.

2218
02:04:38,467 --> 02:04:40,000
So I know all too well

2219
02:04:40,000 --> 02:04:42,333
how difficult some of these issues are.

2220
02:04:42,367 --> 02:04:45,634
And one of the things that stuck out in my mind was on page

2221
02:04:45,767 --> 02:04:48,867
six, number four

2222
02:04:50,100 --> 02:04:51,433
must provide proof

2223
02:04:51,700 --> 02:04:53,033
and compliance thereof

2224
02:04:53,033 --> 02:04:55,133
that the data center will not endanger

2225
02:04:55,133 --> 02:04:56,300
public health and safety.

2226
02:04:57,133 --> 02:05:01,300
What sort of proof would you be looking to receive?

2227
02:05:05,333 --> 02:05:08,834
What kind of document would prove something that health

2228
02:05:08,867 --> 02:05:12,233
and safety was not a problem?

2229
02:05:13,133 --> 02:05:16,033
So what I was thinking is in all the different

2230
02:05:17,567 --> 02:05:20,233
consultants and experts

2231
02:05:20,567 --> 02:05:24,634
and research that you do, wouldn't it be prudent to

2232
02:05:25,300 --> 02:05:30,033
consider having a physician who's familiar with these issues

2233
02:05:31,066 --> 02:05:35,867
and or an audiologist who would, who would know even

2234
02:05:35,867 --> 02:05:38,734
before you started talking about all the decals

2235
02:05:38,734 --> 02:05:42,033
and what environment is good for this person or that person

2236
02:05:42,133 --> 02:05:44,367
or this in infirmity

2237
02:05:44,433 --> 02:05:47,367
or that potential problem they would know

2238
02:05:47,467 --> 02:05:50,700
and be able to advise you without having to guess.

2239
02:05:53,066 --> 02:05:56,100
So I mean I think that all of the different topics

2240
02:05:56,166 --> 02:05:58,266
that you have focused on are great,

2241
02:05:59,000 --> 02:06:03,500
but when this holiday brought up the health

2242
02:06:03,567 --> 02:06:05,700
and safety issue that sort

2243
02:06:05,700 --> 02:06:07,867
of got lost in all these other topics

2244
02:06:08,634 --> 02:06:12,667
and I think it really does deserve its own special place in

2245
02:06:12,867 --> 02:06:14,333
your thinking and your planning.

2246
02:06:15,100 --> 02:06:18,567
And again, I do appreciate what you've already done.

2247
02:06:19,133 --> 02:06:20,667
It's amazing. So thank you.

2248
02:06:21,133 --> 02:06:23,567
- Thank you ma'am. Mr. Chair and

2249
02:06:23,567 --> 02:06:24,567
- Thank - You.

2250
02:06:24,567 --> 02:06:25,667
Could I just comment on

2251
02:06:26,133 --> 02:06:29,000
that while we're looking at number four on page six,

2252
02:06:30,000 --> 02:06:33,166
if we look at that sentence must provide proof

2253
02:06:33,233 --> 02:06:34,667
and compliance thereof

2254
02:06:34,900 --> 02:06:37,033
that the data center will not endanger.

2255
02:06:37,834 --> 02:06:39,066
I'd like to change

2256
02:06:39,266 --> 02:06:41,433
or consider having the word

2257
02:06:43,000 --> 02:06:46,133
endanger change to impact.

2258
02:06:46,233 --> 02:06:50,467
Ah, endanger is a, is a,

2259
02:06:54,233 --> 02:06:56,634
that's clearly a safety, you know that

2260
02:06:57,934 --> 02:06:59,934
whereby we're really talking about

2261
02:07:01,500 --> 02:07:04,934
our a DA residents and so on.

2262
02:07:05,033 --> 02:07:07,033
And so the issue of impact

2263
02:07:07,834 --> 02:07:10,934
I think is more appropriate than in danger.

2264
02:07:12,867 --> 02:07:15,667
Well, let's take that a step further.

2265
02:07:15,934 --> 02:07:18,166
I I don't think that's enforceable.

2266
02:07:18,433 --> 02:07:21,500
I don't think that that whole sentence there is

2267
02:07:22,233 --> 02:07:23,467
B belongs in the Ordinance.

2268
02:07:23,734 --> 02:07:25,100
How, how do you do that?

2269
02:07:25,233 --> 02:07:27,367
How do you provide proof

2270
02:07:27,634 --> 02:07:29,734
and compliance that it will not

2271
02:07:30,467 --> 02:07:32,634
affect the public health and safety?

2272
02:07:34,700 --> 02:07:37,066
- I agree. Where, where's what document is that?

2273
02:07:37,634 --> 02:07:39,634
Yeah, I agree completely with you.

2274
02:07:39,867 --> 02:07:43,867
I I don't think that all that is is ambiguous

2275
02:07:43,900 --> 02:07:46,634
and doesn't help and can't be proved.

2276
02:07:46,767 --> 02:07:49,333
I mean how are you gonna provide proof? Yeah, you

2277
02:07:49,333 --> 02:07:51,767
- Can't, the compliance part I, I assume

2278
02:07:51,767 --> 02:07:53,266
that any development would've to comply with

2279
02:07:53,533 --> 02:07:57,066
what other public, whatever safety laws already exist

2280
02:07:57,500 --> 02:07:58,500
- In the town, Jim.

2281
02:07:58,734 --> 02:08:00,266
- So at least in the interim,

2282
02:08:00,634 --> 02:08:03,634
Lisa mentioned this a little bit earlier, she said

2283
02:08:03,634 --> 02:08:05,100
that usually it says something like the

2284
02:08:05,100 --> 02:08:06,233
board determines that.

2285
02:08:07,066 --> 02:08:08,033
So we'll find a way

2286
02:08:08,033 --> 02:08:09,500
to make it congruent with the rest of it.

2287
02:08:10,000 --> 02:08:12,467
But I took out must provide proof

2288
02:08:12,467 --> 02:08:14,934
and compliance thereof. Okay so

2289
02:08:15,634 --> 02:08:19,700
- Thank you - Allude to the direction we're going

2290
02:08:20,100 --> 02:08:22,634
but yeah, so that's been noted.

2291
02:08:23,000 --> 02:08:25,634
We'll figure out how to soften that

2292
02:08:25,667 --> 02:08:27,100
but at least the ideas there

2293
02:08:27,133 --> 02:08:30,300
to at least incorporate all the things you're talking about.

2294
02:08:30,467 --> 02:08:31,533
What's that impact? Go ahead.

2295
02:08:31,867 --> 02:08:33,734
- Yeah, I was just gonna say I would look at that mining

2296
02:08:33,867 --> 02:08:37,734
and quarrying one that has almost the exact same language

2297
02:08:37,867 --> 02:08:41,100
but doesn't have the must provide proof

2298
02:08:42,000 --> 02:08:44,767
and with the like the initial,

2299
02:08:47,667 --> 02:08:51,533
the initial purpose statement is really well written in

2300
02:08:51,533 --> 02:08:52,634
that mining reporting one.

2301
02:08:52,634 --> 02:08:55,033
So if you look at that I think that might be helpful.

2302
02:08:55,367 --> 02:08:58,567
- Thank you - David. Ma'am

2303
02:08:59,634 --> 02:09:03,100
- My name's Ashley Craig, I'm also from Greenleaf Manor.

2304
02:09:04,066 --> 02:09:07,333
I'm actually moving on to number five right after the proof

2305
02:09:07,700 --> 02:09:08,867
and compliance section.

2306
02:09:09,166 --> 02:09:11,700
And I know that you had added the A, B

2307
02:09:11,700 --> 02:09:16,266
and C since the draft went out yesterday or the day before.

2308
02:09:17,066 --> 02:09:22,066
I guess my question is Mostly

2309
02:09:22,066 --> 02:09:24,867
related to e kind of B as well,

2310
02:09:26,700 --> 02:09:29,900
not being familiar with the land development

2311
02:09:31,000 --> 02:09:32,300
plans that are submitted.

2312
02:09:33,000 --> 02:09:35,900
How specific do you get in saying

2313
02:09:35,934 --> 02:09:37,634
what you want in the environmental

2314
02:09:37,734 --> 02:09:39,634
and community impact analysis

2315
02:09:40,233 --> 02:09:42,133
if you don't have any provisions?

2316
02:09:42,367 --> 02:09:46,300
I feel like it's really important to include maybe some

2317
02:09:47,000 --> 02:09:50,900
topics to include but not limit to addressing.

2318
02:09:51,000 --> 02:09:55,367
So things like, like at a minimum address these topics

2319
02:09:56,500 --> 02:09:59,166
in this analysis in the community impact analysis.

2320
02:09:59,266 --> 02:10:03,000
So like wildlife, heat islands,

2321
02:10:03,500 --> 02:10:05,133
I don't see anything about heat

2322
02:10:05,066 --> 02:10:08,433
or temperature in these in the Ordinance.

2323
02:10:09,133 --> 02:10:11,834
Odor, noise, smoke, dust, litter, glare.

2324
02:10:12,867 --> 02:10:16,266
I just wanna make sure that whatever environmental

2325
02:10:16,300 --> 02:10:20,300
and communi community impact analysis is done includes those

2326
02:10:20,367 --> 02:10:24,066
topics and maybe even the preliminary analysis in general

2327
02:10:24,100 --> 02:10:26,100
statement as well.

2328
02:10:27,467 --> 02:10:30,033
And then beyond just talking about that,

2329
02:10:30,133 --> 02:10:35,066
is the analysis also to require that the applicant speak to

2330
02:10:35,567 --> 02:10:38,300
what measures are going to be employed to mitigate

2331
02:10:38,467 --> 02:10:42,266
or eliminate any of the negative impacts that the set,

2332
02:10:42,266 --> 02:10:46,266
those analysis bring up to the table on people

2333
02:10:47,734 --> 02:10:50,000
you know on wildlife, on agriculture.

2334
02:10:50,033 --> 02:10:51,133
So I just wasn't sure,

2335
02:10:52,000 --> 02:10:55,033
you know the current ordinances in place, how

2336
02:10:56,033 --> 02:10:57,500
specific are they in saying like

2337
02:10:57,500 --> 02:10:59,700
what does this analysis require?

2338
02:10:59,700 --> 02:11:00,867
Because if it doesn't,

2339
02:11:01,033 --> 02:11:03,333
I feel like why not offer at a minimum

2340
02:11:03,500 --> 02:11:05,033
what topics should be addressed.

2341
02:11:06,133 --> 02:11:08,367
And also I'm not really sure like what it says,

2342
02:11:08,367 --> 02:11:10,867
you know there's a preliminary analysis

2343
02:11:10,867 --> 02:11:14,734
and general statement to be have a meaningful discussion

2344
02:11:15,166 --> 02:11:17,567
and then maybe the conditional use will be approved.

2345
02:11:17,934 --> 02:11:20,300
How often is the conditional use approved

2346
02:11:21,000 --> 02:11:22,834
and the Zoning permit denied?

2347
02:11:23,300 --> 02:11:26,100
I just, I guess I just wanna make sure that the environment

2348
02:11:26,100 --> 02:11:29,033
and the community impact are

2349
02:11:30,634 --> 02:11:33,033
taken seriously documented

2350
02:11:33,667 --> 02:11:35,133
and I don't know

2351
02:11:35,133 --> 02:11:38,634
how thorough the current ordinances are in DES describing

2352
02:11:38,634 --> 02:11:40,834
what should be included in that analysis.

2353
02:11:41,333 --> 02:11:43,767
So a little bit of education on my part, I don't know

2354
02:11:44,000 --> 02:11:47,300
but like if there isn't, you know, that level

2355
02:11:47,333 --> 02:11:50,900
of granularity, I feel like it'd be important

2356
02:11:50,900 --> 02:11:52,734
to suggest topics to cover.

2357
02:11:54,033 --> 02:11:56,100
So that's it.

2358
02:11:56,767 --> 02:12:00,133
- Thank you Mr. Mr. Chair? Yes ma'am. Thank you.

2359
02:12:00,133 --> 02:12:02,467
That was very helpful. I took a lot of notes in what he said

2360
02:12:03,233 --> 02:12:06,333
and also very savvy on your part.

2361
02:12:06,500 --> 02:12:09,433
The, our solicitor called out that exact line,

2362
02:12:10,066 --> 02:12:12,634
the the environmental community impact.

2363
02:12:12,767 --> 02:12:16,934
So that was part of the reason why we made this change.

2364
02:12:17,467 --> 02:12:19,266
So, and that's also why it's clunky language

2365
02:12:19,467 --> 02:12:21,133
'cause it was just the fact just today.

2366
02:12:22,734 --> 02:12:27,233
But her point was well do we have any other spot in our code

2367
02:12:27,233 --> 02:12:28,567
where we already addressed that?

2368
02:12:28,567 --> 02:12:29,734
Where we already have standards?

2369
02:12:30,233 --> 02:12:32,700
Not really, we just knew we wanted to get there.

2370
02:12:33,000 --> 02:12:35,734
So this what your feedback that's,

2371
02:12:36,000 --> 02:12:37,900
I was just thinking yeah again that's why we're here

2372
02:12:37,900 --> 02:12:39,367
because that's what, that's very helpful.

2373
02:12:40,500 --> 02:12:42,100
And then also related to,

2374
02:12:42,266 --> 02:12:44,567
you were talking about the education on the, the process

2375
02:12:45,000 --> 02:12:46,133
that was her other point.

2376
02:12:46,333 --> 02:12:49,066
And there are other parts of the other conditional uses

2377
02:12:49,066 --> 02:12:51,734
that Laura use as well, but maybe shouldn't

2378
02:12:51,734 --> 02:12:55,634
and that's the conditional use versus land development plan.

2379
02:12:56,166 --> 02:12:58,133
Every development you see that that's most

2380
02:12:58,133 --> 02:13:00,700
of the business we have here is a land development plan

2381
02:13:01,033 --> 02:13:05,233
which is kind of the, I call it the birth certificate sort

2382
02:13:05,233 --> 02:13:08,066
of, but for each property in theory

2383
02:13:08,133 --> 02:13:10,367
that they all have this land development plan

2384
02:13:10,634 --> 02:13:13,033
and then the Zoning permit is issued off of that.

2385
02:13:13,300 --> 02:13:17,767
But in some cases where the use it, it's,

2386
02:13:19,133 --> 02:13:23,500
it should have more public input, it is a conditional use

2387
02:13:23,700 --> 02:13:25,567
and that's what we've got here.

2388
02:13:25,667 --> 02:13:28,934
But so we automatically said when you submit your,

2389
02:13:29,100 --> 02:13:31,467
the previous drafts and when you submit your conditional use

2390
02:13:31,467 --> 02:13:33,934
application include your land development plan.

2391
02:13:34,266 --> 02:13:36,033
But that's, that's where it gets really messy.

2392
02:13:36,533 --> 02:13:38,367
'cause then you've got a cart horse problem.

2393
02:13:39,166 --> 02:13:43,367
So that was part of what she was calling out was why,

2394
02:13:43,367 --> 02:13:47,333
you know, why are you asking for the most detailed piece

2395
02:13:48,033 --> 02:13:50,300
right at the beginning where we're deciding if it's even

2396
02:13:50,300 --> 02:13:53,033
appropriate where it's this neighborhood discussion.

2397
02:13:53,033 --> 02:13:56,000
So, so again that was the reason for kind of like

2398
02:13:57,166 --> 02:13:58,433
for the language that we used,

2399
02:13:58,433 --> 02:14:01,634
understanding this could be written probably a little bit

2400
02:14:01,634 --> 02:14:04,667
better but the idea was to show that give us enough

2401
02:14:04,667 --> 02:14:07,066
that we can understand what we're looking at.

2402
02:14:07,367 --> 02:14:10,500
It's, it's similar to when you have a brand new subdivision.

2403
02:14:11,000 --> 02:14:13,834
And I don't mean to be split a land, that's a lot.

2404
02:14:14,100 --> 02:14:16,066
I mean like a total green field.

2405
02:14:16,433 --> 02:14:18,133
Usually there's like a sketch plan,

2406
02:14:18,066 --> 02:14:20,634
a preliminary discussion right at the beginning

2407
02:14:21,066 --> 02:14:23,033
where we still kind of had the paintbrushes,

2408
02:14:23,133 --> 02:14:24,066
the big paint brushes out.

2409
02:14:24,133 --> 02:14:28,333
You're not really doing the specific survey

2410
02:14:28,634 --> 02:14:31,066
and all, all the way at the end.

2411
02:14:31,266 --> 02:14:35,433
So if that, so thank you

2412
02:14:35,433 --> 02:14:38,467
and I hope does that help offer a little clarity?

2413
02:14:38,467 --> 02:14:42,500
- Yeah, just make sure that the analysis in court in

2414
02:14:43,133 --> 02:14:46,033
yeah there's some definition around which be

2415
02:14:46,867 --> 02:14:51,834
at a minimum discuss, you know, presented by the,

2416
02:14:52,634 --> 02:14:56,567
- I appreciate that also the, the wet measures, you know,

2417
02:14:56,700 --> 02:14:58,767
the mitigation measures as well is very helpful.

2418
02:15:00,100 --> 02:15:01,066
Okay, thank you.

2419
02:15:09,266 --> 02:15:12,066
- Hello again, my name is Natalie Ray

2420
02:15:12,066 --> 02:15:15,100
and I am here to talk as a citizen

2421
02:15:15,166 --> 02:15:17,266
or I live in Ferguson Township

2422
02:15:17,634 --> 02:15:18,767
but I'm also a researcher

2423
02:15:18,767 --> 02:15:21,133
that studies communities navigating data centers.

2424
02:15:21,500 --> 02:15:24,133
I really appreciate the work that's been put into this,

2425
02:15:24,133 --> 02:15:26,133
the openness for vision and this whole process.

2426
02:15:26,166 --> 02:15:28,066
So I really wanna thank everybody up here,

2427
02:15:28,066 --> 02:15:29,500
everybody in the room online

2428
02:15:30,333 --> 02:15:32,266
because this is really important.

2429
02:15:32,767 --> 02:15:34,567
I just have a couple questions that don't need

2430
02:15:34,567 --> 02:15:35,834
to be addressed at the moment.

2431
02:15:36,066 --> 02:15:37,133
Just like curiosities

2432
02:15:37,233 --> 02:15:39,433
and kind of like things that I've been thinking about.

2433
02:15:40,133 --> 02:15:42,300
One thing that stood out and was discussed was

2434
02:15:42,300 --> 02:15:43,367
the growth square footage.

2435
02:15:44,367 --> 02:15:46,734
That was the first time actually that I've seen,

2436
02:15:46,867 --> 02:15:48,367
and I'm not saying that I've seen in everything

2437
02:15:48,734 --> 02:15:53,533
but the ratings of data center size, I've usually seen it

2438
02:15:53,533 --> 02:15:56,900
by energy usage and I understand that the capacities change

2439
02:15:57,000 --> 02:15:58,033
and so even

2440
02:15:58,033 --> 02:16:01,900
that may not be like a really strong static measure of like

2441
02:16:01,900 --> 02:16:03,734
how big these data centers can even be.

2442
02:16:04,634 --> 02:16:06,834
And so I was just curious if there was,

2443
02:16:06,867 --> 02:16:08,667
and this is again hypothetical, I'm not saying

2444
02:16:08,667 --> 02:16:12,033
that this is exists, a way to indicate and I,

2445
02:16:12,033 --> 02:16:13,433
and I don't know what's allowable

2446
02:16:13,500 --> 02:16:15,166
and the all legal aspect of it,

2447
02:16:15,500 --> 02:16:17,767
but it just stood out to me that

2448
02:16:17,767 --> 02:16:21,133
what you're talking about is not only about the size,

2449
02:16:21,266 --> 02:16:22,767
like the footprint of the building

2450
02:16:23,166 --> 02:16:27,100
but also the intensity of the energy that,

2451
02:16:27,100 --> 02:16:29,367
and so if there's like an energy density ratio

2452
02:16:29,634 --> 02:16:32,000
or something like production size,

2453
02:16:32,333 --> 02:16:35,233
like production like gigawatts per

2454
02:16:35,433 --> 02:16:36,500
size or something like that.

2455
02:16:36,634 --> 02:16:39,300
If there's like a better way to get at what you're trying to

2456
02:16:40,133 --> 02:16:43,233
categorize, maybe dunno if that exists,

2457
02:16:43,233 --> 02:16:46,834
but just throwing it out there in terms of,

2458
02:16:47,033 --> 02:16:49,700
I really appreciate people who brought up the concerns about

2459
02:16:49,700 --> 02:16:51,734
health and safety and like making that prominent

2460
02:16:51,734 --> 02:16:55,033
because I think that it's really hard to try to enforce

2461
02:16:55,433 --> 02:16:58,700
but I think is imperative to talk about.

2462
02:16:59,133 --> 02:17:02,033
I'm just curious about the use of an advisory board

2463
02:17:02,033 --> 02:17:04,333
or like a panel of specialists like you mentioned

2464
02:17:04,333 --> 02:17:07,467
audiologists or health experts in these conditional

2465
02:17:08,100 --> 02:17:09,567
use conversations.

2466
02:17:09,667 --> 02:17:10,934
Again, not sure about process,

2467
02:17:11,033 --> 02:17:13,700
but it just stands out that a different amount of

2468
02:17:13,834 --> 02:17:17,033
or layer of expertise alongside like what's enforceable

2469
02:17:18,000 --> 02:17:20,100
to give comment on the health impacts

2470
02:17:20,500 --> 02:17:24,734
whenever these conversations are had in terms of water.

2471
02:17:25,100 --> 02:17:27,033
I just wanted to note there was a guardian article

2472
02:17:27,033 --> 02:17:29,533
that was published today that talked about PFAS

2473
02:17:29,734 --> 02:17:32,100
or the, I'm not gonna say the name correctly,

2474
02:17:32,000 --> 02:17:34,033
but that type of water pollutant

2475
02:17:35,033 --> 02:17:37,767
as increased within the AI industry.

2476
02:17:37,934 --> 02:17:40,033
Not saying necessarily that it was related to data centers,

2477
02:17:40,000 --> 02:17:41,367
but that's one of those things

2478
02:17:41,367 --> 02:17:45,133
that are those emergent categories of pollutant

2479
02:17:45,166 --> 02:17:47,066
or things that we didn't know about maybe

2480
02:17:47,367 --> 02:17:49,934
or not as known about in the past like five

2481
02:17:49,934 --> 02:17:53,734
or 10 years that I'm sure we're gonna be more concerned

2482
02:17:53,734 --> 02:17:55,033
about in the next 10, 20 years.

2483
02:17:55,333 --> 02:17:58,000
And so, you know, if we're not measuring it

2484
02:17:58,000 --> 02:18:01,533
or we don't know about it, that it's kind of like hard to

2485
02:18:03,000 --> 02:18:04,233
say what's gonna happen with that.

2486
02:18:04,333 --> 02:18:06,533
But people are already concerned about that,

2487
02:18:07,734 --> 02:18:09,934
especially when you're talking about withdrawing water,

2488
02:18:09,934 --> 02:18:12,367
putting that water back into the groundwater if you don't

2489
02:18:12,367 --> 02:18:14,867
know if it's contaminated with those pfas.

2490
02:18:16,066 --> 02:18:17,700
And then the last thing, it just struck me,

2491
02:18:17,700 --> 02:18:20,300
the conversations that were had about like wanting

2492
02:18:20,300 --> 02:18:22,934
to get the language right and I'm not a lawyer at all,

2493
02:18:23,567 --> 02:18:27,634
I know there's a law professor at Penn State, Hannah Wiseman

2494
02:18:27,734 --> 02:18:29,767
who studies this as well.

2495
02:18:30,100 --> 02:18:31,567
We had a conversation recently.

2496
02:18:32,033 --> 02:18:33,867
But one thing that stood out to me is that

2497
02:18:33,867 --> 02:18:36,033
because I don't know about the language, what got

2498
02:18:36,033 --> 02:18:38,133
to me in this process and it sounds like we want

2499
02:18:38,133 --> 02:18:39,767
transparency in the process

2500
02:18:39,934 --> 02:18:41,533
or we want transparency in that data.

2501
02:18:41,900 --> 02:18:43,533
Like you're saying like, oh like the

2502
02:18:43,533 --> 02:18:45,100
license and the engineer.

2503
02:18:45,333 --> 02:18:48,000
What I'm trying to get at is if it's possible at all

2504
02:18:48,000 --> 02:18:51,000
to have this data about the noise levels

2505
02:18:51,233 --> 02:18:53,066
or those measurements not confined

2506
02:18:53,066 --> 02:18:56,066
to the private relationship of an engineer municipality

2507
02:18:56,166 --> 02:18:58,300
or even the engineer and the developer,

2508
02:18:58,467 --> 02:19:00,533
but like publicly available that way that

2509
02:19:00,533 --> 02:19:03,734
that like individuals who wanted to, you know,

2510
02:19:03,834 --> 02:19:05,100
look at the data themselves.

2511
02:19:05,100 --> 02:19:07,700
You have Penn State researchers, I'm may slayer

2512
02:19:07,867 --> 02:19:10,300
that wanna know like is are people living up to

2513
02:19:10,500 --> 02:19:11,533
what they said they would

2514
02:19:12,066 --> 02:19:13,467
and if there's any way to make the water

2515
02:19:14,934 --> 02:19:19,300
those non-operational, you know, it's all transparency

2516
02:19:19,900 --> 02:19:23,700
and the big tech is not very transparent.

2517
02:19:24,066 --> 02:19:25,700
Yes. But I would imagine

2518
02:19:26,066 --> 02:19:28,367
'cause it's drawing on municipal water supply that we

2519
02:19:28,467 --> 02:19:30,066
as municipality might wanna know about,

2520
02:19:30,233 --> 02:19:33,133
is there any like reporting that has to be made public?

2521
02:19:34,100 --> 02:19:37,100
And that's basically I think what everything I had

2522
02:19:37,867 --> 02:19:39,100
just really, again, appreciative

2523
02:19:39,100 --> 02:19:41,066
of everybody here and thank you so much.

2524
02:19:41,233 --> 02:19:44,266
- Thank you Ms. Ray. Any anybody else

2525
02:19:44,467 --> 02:19:45,767
wanna make any comments?

2526
02:19:48,867 --> 02:19:53,000
Well, do you have a hand? Oh yes. Whoever.

2527
02:19:53,567 --> 02:19:56,066
SG is Sharon.

2528
02:19:57,100 --> 02:19:57,333
Oh

2529
02:20:02,133 --> 02:20:02,433
you did?

2530
02:20:02,634 --> 02:20:06,367
Yes. Who is it? Sharon, Gerald. Alvin,

2531
02:20:06,867 --> 02:20:07,867
- Yeah.

2532
02:20:07,867 --> 02:20:09,133
Okay. Okay, can you hear me?

2533
02:20:09,767 --> 02:20:11,300
- Yes. - Okay, great.

2534
02:20:11,900 --> 02:20:16,133
Okay, so I wanna also reiterate that it's great

2535
02:20:16,166 --> 02:20:17,734
to be able to hear all the things

2536
02:20:17,734 --> 02:20:19,100
that you guys have been considering

2537
02:20:19,166 --> 02:20:21,867
and how much time you've been putting into this,

2538
02:20:22,300 --> 02:20:25,166
especially when it's all a moving target

2539
02:20:25,367 --> 02:20:26,834
and evolving so rapidly.

2540
02:20:28,567 --> 02:20:30,100
A lot of things that were said that I agree with,

2541
02:20:30,100 --> 02:20:32,033
but I just wanna bring up three things.

2542
02:20:32,066 --> 02:20:36,667
I think one is things that I felt are important

2543
02:20:36,667 --> 02:20:40,500
that I would not want us to lose sight of would be also

2544
02:20:41,100 --> 02:20:43,634
considering or making some type of, if we can, some type

2545
02:20:43,634 --> 02:20:47,433
of limitation or comment about the impact on the environment

2546
02:20:47,433 --> 02:20:48,734
with the greenhouse gases

2547
02:20:48,900 --> 02:20:52,834
and the pollution impact on

2548
02:20:53,100 --> 02:20:54,333
respiratory diseases.

2549
02:20:55,233 --> 02:20:59,100
And I think that that, you know, you guys have touched on

2550
02:20:59,100 --> 02:21:01,133
that as far as like the community impact statement,

2551
02:21:02,133 --> 02:21:04,033
maybe having the advisory board

2552
02:21:04,433 --> 02:21:07,000
that talks about health impact, et cetera.

2553
02:21:07,734 --> 02:21:09,767
I think the second thing is

2554
02:21:12,133 --> 02:21:15,734
some assessment or responsibility not to

2555
02:21:16,166 --> 02:21:19,100
but these companies not to increase

2556
02:21:19,133 --> 02:21:23,667
and impact the cost of, of the development

2557
02:21:23,934 --> 02:21:27,767
and upgrading the power system

2558
02:21:29,000 --> 02:21:31,100
to increase the cost of electricity

2559
02:21:31,133 --> 02:21:33,100
to homeowners in the area.

2560
02:21:33,734 --> 02:21:35,266
I think that's another thing that's really important.

2561
02:21:37,634 --> 02:21:42,100
And then the final thing was, again, another resource

2562
02:21:42,100 --> 02:21:46,133
that maybe you guys have already tapped into, thinking again

2563
02:21:46,867 --> 02:21:50,433
about who's in the, you know, talking about collaboration

2564
02:21:50,433 --> 02:21:51,867
between the townships and things.

2565
02:21:53,066 --> 02:21:55,834
But there was an article published

2566
02:21:55,934 --> 02:22:00,333
or printed earlier this spring and I guess re-edited in June

2567
02:22:00,700 --> 02:22:04,066
and it was a, a law professor

2568
02:22:05,000 --> 02:22:09,333
Mike Helbig, H-E-L-B-I-N-G talking about,

2569
02:22:11,000 --> 02:22:13,367
yeah, the, the title was about

2570
02:22:13,367 --> 02:22:16,033
how Pennsylvania towns are protecting themselves from the

2571
02:22:16,266 --> 02:22:19,000
noise, heat, and utility costs of massive data centers.

2572
02:22:21,266 --> 02:22:23,767
I just found that my husband just found that tonight,

2573
02:22:23,767 --> 02:22:25,133
so I haven't had a chance to read it.

2574
02:22:25,133 --> 02:22:30,100
But I mean obviously, I mean, I, I,

2575
02:22:30,133 --> 02:22:31,433
like I said, I dunno if that's something

2576
02:22:31,433 --> 02:22:32,900
that you guys were aware of

2577
02:22:32,934 --> 02:22:34,700
or have even maybe used as a resource

2578
02:22:36,100 --> 02:22:37,333
is from the Penn State Institute

2579
02:22:37,333 --> 02:22:38,734
of Energy and the environment.

2580
02:22:40,100 --> 02:22:41,166
That's it. Thank you.

2581
02:22:42,033 --> 02:22:44,934
- Thank you, thank you. I wanted, I wanted

2582
02:22:44,934 --> 02:22:47,133
to take this opport everybody everybody

2583
02:22:47,133 --> 02:22:48,133
participated tonight.

2584
02:22:48,233 --> 02:22:52,233
Tonight. I think there think, there've been a lot of, lot of

2585
02:22:53,266 --> 02:22:56,133
thought thought and there's been a lot of comments.

2586
02:22:56,667 --> 02:23:00,333
Comments and I know that know has, has been scribbling,

2587
02:23:00,500 --> 02:23:02,233
hopefully not scri writing.

2588
02:23:02,333 --> 02:23:04,567
Writing oh, an awful lot down.

2589
02:23:05,100 --> 02:23:06,834
And I think, I think it certainly,

2590
02:23:06,834 --> 02:23:11,100
certainly when it comes time to time to a motion motion,

2591
02:23:11,100 --> 02:23:14,367
certainly certainly want to see the review

2592
02:23:14,367 --> 02:23:16,500
and to the draft Ordinance.

2593
02:23:17,100 --> 02:23:21,433
I'd like to, in my college

2594
02:23:21,567 --> 02:23:24,166
by quoting one of my favorite, my favorite philosophers,

2595
02:23:24,166 --> 02:23:25,934
philosophers, Ted Lasso.

2596
02:23:27,066 --> 02:23:30,266
And this past Wednesday, he said,

2597
02:23:30,533 --> 02:23:33,000
we can't let let the perfect get in the way of the good.

2598
02:23:34,100 --> 02:23:36,567
And I think it is important for us to move forward.

2599
02:23:37,233 --> 02:23:40,634
We need to make as, make this as good as we can,

2600
02:23:41,500 --> 02:23:44,367
but we don't wanna be discussing this a year from now.

2601
02:23:45,734 --> 02:23:50,567
And so that is my final thought. It

2602
02:23:50,900 --> 02:23:51,900
- Yeah.

2603
02:23:51,900 --> 02:23:54,100
One final thought from me, Kim.

2604
02:23:55,900 --> 02:23:59,033
I can honestly say to you that

2605
02:24:00,433 --> 02:24:03,834
this document, as it has been presented as a draft,

2606
02:24:06,000 --> 02:24:10,500
clearly exceeds what I expected as a draft.

2607
02:24:12,000 --> 02:24:15,066
Your staff has done a wonderful job and,

2608
02:24:15,300 --> 02:24:19,000
and I'm not exactly sure what I expected,

2609
02:24:20,266 --> 02:24:24,900
but whatever it was, this is better than what I expected.

2610
02:24:25,767 --> 02:24:30,100
And and it clearly incorporates,

2611
02:24:30,533 --> 02:24:33,533
you know, a lot of the things that have been discussed

2612
02:24:34,667 --> 02:24:36,133
leading up to tonight.

2613
02:24:36,634 --> 02:24:40,133
And as chair said, you

2614
02:24:41,500 --> 02:24:44,767
all have been taking voluminous notes as we've been talking.

2615
02:24:45,233 --> 02:24:47,567
And so good job

2616
02:24:48,100 --> 02:24:53,100
thank you about

2617
02:24:53,467 --> 02:24:54,467
- What's that?

2618
02:24:54,900 --> 02:24:57,266
Can I'll entertain a motion to Adjourn. So moved.

2619
02:24:58,000 --> 02:25:00,333
- Second. I'll take a

2620
02:25:32,000 --> 02:25:33,533
- Give thanks for literacy.

2621
02:25:34,533 --> 02:25:37,533
Literacy means a life of increased safety achievements

2622
02:25:37,700 --> 02:25:40,934
and community participation For more than 50 years,

2623
02:25:41,100 --> 02:25:44,100
Mid-State Literacy Council has empowered thousands

2624
02:25:44,100 --> 02:25:46,567
of residents with literacy skills improving

2625
02:25:46,567 --> 02:25:47,700
their family's lives.

2626
02:25:48,634 --> 02:25:50,100
Literacy builds our community.

2627
02:25:50,433 --> 02:25:52,033
Help us celebrate literacy

2628
02:25:52,133 --> 02:25:55,033
and support Mid-State Literacy Council by volunteering

2629
02:25:55,133 --> 02:25:57,867
or donating to our give thanks for literacy campaign,

2630
02:25:59,166 --> 02:26:02,700
www.stateliteracycouncil.org.

2631
02:26:08,233 --> 02:26:10,033
- Did you know that CNET has over 30 years

2632
02:26:10,033 --> 02:26:12,000
of program archives available to the public

2633
02:26:12,734 --> 02:26:14,333
for a requested donation of $20?

2634
02:26:14,533 --> 02:26:15,734
You can receive a DVD

2635
02:26:15,734 --> 02:26:18,500
or digital copy of any program in our library going

2636
02:26:18,500 --> 02:26:19,667
back to 1988.

2637
02:26:20,066 --> 02:26:22,834
The senior archives include high school graduations

2638
02:26:22,834 --> 02:26:25,367
and award nights, school district concerts

2639
02:26:25,367 --> 02:26:28,000
and sporting events, school library, write

2640
02:26:28,000 --> 02:26:29,333
and illustrate your own book awards.

2641
02:26:30,367 --> 02:26:32,467
Memorial Day in Bosberg and the Central Pennsylvania

2642
02:26:32,734 --> 02:26:35,433
Festival of the Arts Military history lectures.

2643
02:26:35,634 --> 02:26:37,667
So will round tables and many more.

2644
02:26:38,266 --> 02:26:39,700
And don't forget about the meetings.

2645
02:26:40,033 --> 02:26:42,834
We have an expansive archive of local government as well

2646
02:26:42,834 --> 02:26:45,066
as Beon and State College area school board meetings.

2647
02:26:45,634 --> 02:26:47,667
CNET has been covering the Centre County community

2648
02:26:47,700 --> 02:26:50,367
for over three decades, and we have the tape to prove it.

2649
02:26:50,834 --> 02:26:53,133
Visit CNET one.org to browse our archives

2650
02:26:53,133 --> 02:26:54,367
and you can call or email us.

2651
02:26:54,367 --> 02:26:56,700
Order your own DVD or digital copy today.

2652
02:26:57,233 --> 02:26:58,367
Nothing good on tv.

2653
02:26:59,066 --> 02:27:00,433
You're just not watching the right channels.