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- The CACJ is a nonprofit focused on restorative justice,

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a system of criminal justice

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that focuses on the rehabilitation of offenders

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through reconciliation with victims

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and the community, it's justice with the goal

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to heal rather than punish.

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Our five programs are pretrial supervision, youth aid panel,

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the youth counseling pilot program, mediation

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and community conferencing.

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Our program save taxpayers over $400,000 per year,

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empower individuals

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and groups to resolve their own conflicts and are affordable

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and accessible to the community.

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To learn more or to make a referral,

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visit our website or give us a call.

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- The Centre Region Active Adult Center is a vibrant,

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inclusive, and happening location designed

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for active adults 55 years and over to be social

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and participate in new experiences while all

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staying close to home.

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We promote healthy aging through our many activities

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and health forums, as well as lifelong learning

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through classes and social interaction

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that suit almost any lifestyle.

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Whether you prefer line dancing followed by a walk

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or a game of bridge and a meal,

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the center is sure to have something for you.

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Visit crpr.org for more info.

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- You are watching CNET Center County's Government

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and Educational Access Network.

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- At this time, I'll call to order the Ferguson Township

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Board of Supervisors meeting for Tuesday, September 15th.

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The order Please rise as you're able

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and join me for the Pledge of Allegiance.

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- I pledge all alle allegiance do the flag,

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United States of America

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and to the republic for which it stands,

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one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty

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and justice for all.

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- Thank you. You may be seated.

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And at this time I'll recognize the assistant Township

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manager who will provide us

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with our meeting procedures and call to role.

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- Thank you chair and thank you to the members of the board,

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staff and public for joining us this evening

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for the September 15th, 2026, Ferguson Township Board

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of Supervisors regular meeting.

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This meeting has been properly advertised in accordance

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with the Pennsylvania Sunshine Act as a hybrid meeting

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with the option to attend virtually

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and in person here at the Ferguson

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Township Municipal Building.

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Members of the public attending virtually are asked

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to remain muted during the meeting

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to prevent any ambient noise from disrupting the meeting.

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If you were attending virtually

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and would like to make a Public Comment,

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please use the raise hand feature

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and once acknowledged by the chair,

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you may unmute the microphone for question or comment.

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If you were attending in person

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and would like to make a Public Comment,

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please approach the podium

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and state your name, municipality of Reside,

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and Municipality of residence.

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Finally, a Roll Call of the board

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of Supervisors will now be taken.

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Please indicate that you are here when

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your name is called Mr.

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Thompson. Here. Mr. Patterson.

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- He is online. He is online? - Yes, he is online.

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- Ms. Stephens? I'm here. Mr. Heller? Here.

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Mr. White. Here. Chair.

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- You have a court. Alright, thank you.

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No announcements and proclamations this evening.

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So we'll go straight into public comments.

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So this will be for items

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that do not appear on the agenda tonight.

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I know there is a various people here

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to speak on various items that are on our agenda tonight.

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So we'll continue to go down through the order of our agenda

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and call for Public Comment when we get to those items.

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So for any items that are not on the agenda at this time,

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we will go with public in the room.

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You'll get five minutes

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and then when you come up to the podium, we ask you

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that you state your name and municipality of residence.

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So yeah, we'll start in the room if your your first

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and then we'll get I saw your hand up there West.

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We'll get to you next.

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- All right. Just talking to this thing. Yeah. Yep.

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All right. Thank you for having me. Good evening everyone.

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Thank you. Of course. For allowing Public Comment

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and for listening to my concerns over the last few months

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regarding none other than the bioswale.

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I'd like to introduce myself.

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My name is Alicia and I've been a Ferguson Township resident

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since 2020 when I moved over the mountain from Huntington

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County after having my daughter Hazel Lark, I commute

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to a wonderful job on South Atherton via Whitehall Road,

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and I'm very knowledgeable about native plants, wetland

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and stream restoration, wildlife, habitat management,

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and endangered species protections.

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Ask my husband. I'm a very passionate person when

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it comes to conservation.

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On July 15th during the height of peak wildflower season

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and on my commute to work,

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I noticed a tractor mower cutting down blooming plants

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within the bile bioswale at the Ferguson Township building.

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My heart sank, especially given the fact that I'm very aware

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of what was growing in the bioswale.

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I sprang into action immediately

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and called the Township office to determine their decision,

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especially during the worst time to mow.

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I spoke with a few folks in the office

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and one at length regarding the decision.

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I decided to spread the word,

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so maybe some of you have seen.

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I contacted numerous local agencies to make people aware.

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I have a lot of friends who are like-minded

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and they recommended a way

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to reach people within the community.

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I'm a millennial, but I really didn't know next door.

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So I had a friend post.

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Over 45 positive comments were

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regarding saving the bioswale 45 likes.

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Loves most of the, the posts actually reached 3000 people.

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It truly warmed my heart.

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I can tell you a lot of people have called

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and sent in negative comments

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to the Township folks over the last month

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since they started mowing,

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and I don't believe the Township

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has highlighted them enough.

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During the last few meetings,

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the number one reason given about the bioswale being mowed

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was that there was, quote, an overwhelming number

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of complaints throughout the years.

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I truly would like to offer to meet these folks

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that have complained as someone

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who grew up on a 2000 acre dairy farm in the finger lakes

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of New York, I understand the negative sentiment over wild

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spaces and un manicured lawns.

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I grew up mowing every inch of every space on the farm,

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including right up to the edge of numerous ponds.

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I can tell you my thoughts have changed.

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My dad and my brother also have changed

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their thoughts on wild spaces.

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I was just up there this past weekend

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and they have beautiful fields

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and forest edges, field edges of golden rod

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and aster blooming.

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It's quite wondrous. Manicured

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lawns are a thing of the past.

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Wildlife areas are a hot ticket.

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Goldfinches, hummingbirds, bees, butterflies, insects,

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spiders thrive in un unloaded wild spaces.

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It's all a healthy ecosystem when your property can provide

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food, shelter, and water for such wonderful,

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sometimes threatened species

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and most of all misunderstood species.

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I was able to obtain the seed mixes used in the

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land development plan.

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Through my research, there were areas slated

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for reforestation, of course, the bio swell

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for stormwater filtration

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and the landscape restoration areas.

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The bio swell was Ernst 180 3, very specific to bios,

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swes, native grasses.

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You're not gonna find any wildflower really in that mix.

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Typical costs probably was probably around $800.

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The area seeded for the landscape restoration were Ernst

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1 53, which is a showy northeast native

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wildflower grass mix.

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It included a lot of different wildflowers,

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purple cone flower, black-eyed Susan Sunflowers,

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mountain mint butterfly weed, which is a host monarch plant,

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golden rods, so on and so forth.

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Typical probably cost would've been

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around a thousand dollars for that specific area.

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I can promise you the restoration areas were

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had a lot of those species.

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I particularly saw a lot of butterfly weed.

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Again, Monarch Caterpillar's host plant.

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I confirmed the plant types by taking pictures

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of the only un unloaded section, which is left

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on the right side of the building.

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You can see those on next door

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or if you wanna copy, I have pictures.

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Sure, no restoration area is perfect.

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And yes, you will have invasive plants popping up.

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I particularly am very knowledgeable about invasive plants

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and it's really hard to control them,

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but just to give up on 'em is a different story.

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The best time to mow is in early spring.

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It's certainly not now because it's monarch season.

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You if you, if you mow, now you're cutting down milkweed,

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which is the monarch again, host.

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There's chrysalis and caterpillars everywhere right now,

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and especially not mid-July.

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I've been told. We're just mowing it

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and yet they continue to mow it.

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After a few growing seasons of mowing,

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you'll effectively kill the plants.

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According to the er, er Ernst Seed representative

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that I spoke to at Ag Progress days,

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he also gave me a kudos pat on the back.

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He told me it takes courage to stick up

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for what's right in my community.

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My main concern this whole time has been the fact

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that we're, that this was all an

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improvement of the facility.

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It was an educational moment for the Township

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and that taxpayer money was used to enhance this area.

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It was beautiful.

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It had flaws, but you can,

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you can't expect it to be perfect.

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I challenged the Township folks to grow

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and not just throw an establish resource away

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because of a few complaints over the years.

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Some great places to visit that are very similar

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to the Bioswale are located at Ag Progress Days,

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harvest Fields, Cecil Irvin, dic, butterfly Gardens,

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spring Creek Restoration Area.

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There's so many I can't even name them.

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You'll be surprised at the life living within these little

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ecosystems and maybe make a small

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but mighty little change in your own yard space.

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DCNR and Centre County Conservation District have been

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giving away free native seed this past year

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to convert your lawn to meadow.

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And I just picked up some the other day.

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I just wanted to read an excerpt

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after the bio swell was put in

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that the Ferguson Township put in their newsletter.

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If you have driven down Whitehall Road,

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you may have noticed Ferguson Township

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building has new vegetation on this property.

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While it may look unkempt grass

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with weeds from afar up close, it's an intentional ecosystem

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that has a positive environmental impact on both rainfall

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and our native wildlife known as bioswales.

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These channels are built into the ground to transport water

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and have secondary purpose of removing debris and pollution.

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Great thing. I recommend Doug Tami books

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for more information or if anyone would like

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to just sit down with me and have a coffee, discuss,

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discuss anything that I've mentioned below or above.

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I would like to inspire my neighbors

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and friends, just like I try

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to inspire my daughter every day.

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I hope to continue effective dialogue

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and look for ways to protect

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and maybe even enhance the bioswale.

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Thank you for your time.

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- Thank. Thank you. Alicia. Did you? Nope.

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- Alright, next again, I guess I said West

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- Do five minutes.

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I wrote down

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- We Glebe Ferguson.

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I can't hold a candle to that brilliant presentation.

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That was great. What I did want to just

263
00:11:35,700 --> 00:11:38,066
let people know about was a group called

264
00:11:38,033 --> 00:11:39,133
Food and Water Watch.

265
00:11:40,467 --> 00:11:42,700
I just got their fall,

266
00:11:52,033 --> 00:11:53,033
their fall issue.

267
00:11:53,834 --> 00:11:55,567
And it's about

268
00:11:59,533 --> 00:12:03,567
pushback against data centers primarily.

269
00:12:04,266 --> 00:12:07,367
And what was interesting is that they are offering

270
00:12:10,100 --> 00:12:13,634
toolkits, webinars,

271
00:12:14,266 --> 00:12:16,333
and things that you can send for.

272
00:12:17,100 --> 00:12:21,500
So I, I'll leave this with Jenna

273
00:12:21,834 --> 00:12:26,367
or whoever's appropriate and they can make some copies

274
00:12:27,100 --> 00:12:31,066
and I'd like this back,

275
00:12:31,233 --> 00:12:33,233
but I'm not in a rush.

276
00:12:33,900 --> 00:12:36,233
So if anybody wants out in

277
00:12:38,066 --> 00:12:40,467
CNET Land wants to have a look at this,

278
00:12:41,700 --> 00:12:43,133
I suppose they can come in

279
00:12:43,367 --> 00:12:48,367
and get a copy. That's that.

280
00:12:50,100 --> 00:12:51,533
- Okay, thank you Wes.

281
00:12:52,266 --> 00:12:54,000
Anyone else in the room for items

282
00:12:54,033 --> 00:12:55,533
that are not on our agenda tonight?

283
00:12:55,700 --> 00:12:57,834
I know we do have a lot of items on the agenda,

284
00:12:57,934 --> 00:13:00,767
but we will get those in the order that they appear.

285
00:13:01,467 --> 00:13:04,133
Go straight into the middle of the room there.

286
00:13:10,734 --> 00:13:12,567
- Hey everyone, can you hear me? Sweet.

287
00:13:13,033 --> 00:13:15,033
Okay, gimme one moment. Okay.

288
00:13:16,867 --> 00:13:20,033
Okay, So my name's Thomas Lichty.

289
00:13:20,300 --> 00:13:21,567
I am born in State College.

290
00:13:22,266 --> 00:13:25,233
I live in Greenbrier, which is in Ferguson Township.

291
00:13:25,867 --> 00:13:27,834
And then I also, that's where my parents live.

292
00:13:27,867 --> 00:13:30,066
And then I was raised there 18 years

293
00:13:30,166 --> 00:13:32,233
and now I'm a student at Penn State and I live downtown.

294
00:13:32,233 --> 00:13:34,734
But one of the things that's kind of pressing

295
00:13:34,734 --> 00:13:37,500
to me this current moment is flock safety cameras,

296
00:13:37,867 --> 00:13:39,300
the Axon cameras, stuff like that.

297
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,634
So if you guys don't know, I think there's 22 cameras on

298
00:13:42,667 --> 00:13:43,767
Penn State's property

299
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,033
and I wanted to bring that to everyone's attention

300
00:13:46,033 --> 00:13:49,033
because these cameras, what they'll do is they'll scan your

301
00:13:49,033 --> 00:13:52,100
license plate, they'll scan the like bumper stickers on your

302
00:13:52,100 --> 00:13:53,233
cars, the color of your cars.

303
00:13:53,333 --> 00:13:55,033
And none of us are consenting to this.

304
00:13:55,033 --> 00:13:56,700
We have an implicit right to privacy

305
00:13:57,100 --> 00:13:58,634
as enshrined by the constitution.

306
00:13:58,634 --> 00:14:02,233
And I think it's important that the council here takes

307
00:14:02,233 --> 00:14:03,266
that into account

308
00:14:03,433 --> 00:14:06,000
and remembers that it's their responsibility

309
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:07,367
to protect us from things like this.

310
00:14:08,033 --> 00:14:10,033
None of us are into the warrant, this tracking

311
00:14:10,033 --> 00:14:12,133
that these cameras are doing.

312
00:14:12,533 --> 00:14:15,066
None of us are committing crimes.

313
00:14:15,500 --> 00:14:17,333
You know, like it's, it's dumb that we have

314
00:14:17,333 --> 00:14:19,500
to worry about someone watching us

315
00:14:19,934 --> 00:14:22,533
and like it's just, it's just strange

316
00:14:22,533 --> 00:14:24,133
that like someone will want this in our community.

317
00:14:24,133 --> 00:14:25,700
So I was hoping that you guys would be willing

318
00:14:25,700 --> 00:14:27,033
to pass an Ordinance against this.

319
00:14:27,100 --> 00:14:29,533
I know most of the people I talk to, if not all

320
00:14:29,533 --> 00:14:30,767
of them, are against this.

321
00:14:31,133 --> 00:14:32,333
And like the argument is like, oh,

322
00:14:32,333 --> 00:14:33,767
well why should you care if

323
00:14:33,767 --> 00:14:34,934
like, you're not doing anything wrong?

324
00:14:35,100 --> 00:14:36,867
It's like, I want to be able to

325
00:14:37,467 --> 00:14:39,266
feel like I'm safe from these people

326
00:14:39,934 --> 00:14:42,066
who are running these companies with no oversight.

327
00:14:42,066 --> 00:14:44,233
Like we have no idea where this data is going.

328
00:14:44,500 --> 00:14:47,033
And I personally think that that is extremely dangerous

329
00:14:47,033 --> 00:14:49,233
because I care about my privacy

330
00:14:49,500 --> 00:14:52,066
and the privacy of other individuals in this community.

331
00:14:52,433 --> 00:14:53,767
And I also think it's a danger

332
00:14:53,767 --> 00:14:55,066
because when we look at technology

333
00:14:55,133 --> 00:14:57,000
as an engineering student at Penn State,

334
00:14:57,500 --> 00:14:59,000
technology isn't perfect.

335
00:14:59,066 --> 00:15:02,066
That's why we have unit ops technicians.

336
00:15:02,033 --> 00:15:04,100
When I was at Merck for my summer internship,

337
00:15:04,433 --> 00:15:05,467
they would have, people would have

338
00:15:05,467 --> 00:15:07,033
to troubleshoot these machines and whatnot.

339
00:15:07,033 --> 00:15:09,066
And it's because they are wrong sometimes.

340
00:15:09,066 --> 00:15:12,033
Sometimes they go out of spec and you have to fix 'em.

341
00:15:12,033 --> 00:15:13,266
And I think it's important to realize

342
00:15:13,266 --> 00:15:14,934
that this technology is wrong.

343
00:15:15,033 --> 00:15:18,233
I believe in Florida a man was fine for a speeding ticket

344
00:15:18,233 --> 00:15:19,467
and he was out of the state

345
00:15:19,500 --> 00:15:21,100
and it was due to an error in the system.

346
00:15:21,734 --> 00:15:23,266
And one of the important things is

347
00:15:23,266 --> 00:15:26,100
that if you're like accused of a crime by the government,

348
00:15:26,333 --> 00:15:29,100
you, you shouldn't first be accused of a crime

349
00:15:29,767 --> 00:15:32,367
because like, I mean we're innocent until proven guilty.

350
00:15:32,500 --> 00:15:35,934
And I think it's dumb that an automated system can kind

351
00:15:35,934 --> 00:15:37,300
of convict us of something like that.

352
00:15:37,867 --> 00:15:40,300
And I think another important thing is

353
00:15:40,300 --> 00:15:42,700
that if you wanna prove your innocence, you have to go

354
00:15:42,700 --> 00:15:45,367
to the government, you have to hire a lawyer, you have

355
00:15:45,367 --> 00:15:47,734
to say, look, this is what actually happened.

356
00:15:47,934 --> 00:15:50,033
And you know, in a time where there's a ton

357
00:15:50,033 --> 00:15:51,533
of economic uncertainty in our country

358
00:15:51,533 --> 00:15:53,266
because of an idiot who's running our country

359
00:15:53,333 --> 00:15:55,300
and is completely selfish and is literally trying

360
00:15:55,300 --> 00:15:57,100
to stay out of jail because he's a pedophile,

361
00:15:58,033 --> 00:15:59,333
allegedly a pedophile.

362
00:15:59,433 --> 00:16:01,100
But like, let's be real for one moment.

363
00:16:01,033 --> 00:16:03,000
Like everyone knows what's selfish that.

364
00:16:03,233 --> 00:16:05,300
So I think it's just important to realize

365
00:16:05,367 --> 00:16:08,033
that you guys have the opportunity to protect us.

366
00:16:08,567 --> 00:16:10,767
And I would love for you guys to pass an Ordinance.

367
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,533
And if law cameras do come to Ferguson Township,

368
00:16:15,066 --> 00:16:16,233
it's important to remember that we

369
00:16:16,233 --> 00:16:17,333
are the people who elect you.

370
00:16:17,667 --> 00:16:19,734
And if you do not protect our right to privacy,

371
00:16:20,100 --> 00:16:21,033
we will vote you out

372
00:16:21,033 --> 00:16:23,333
and we will replace you with people who will thank you.

373
00:16:29,033 --> 00:16:31,300
- Thank you. Thank you for your remarks, Thomas.

374
00:16:32,433 --> 00:16:34,000
We do have an item on our agenda

375
00:16:34,033 --> 00:16:36,066
for discussion later in the meeting on

376
00:16:36,333 --> 00:16:37,834
automated license plate readers.

377
00:16:37,834 --> 00:16:41,066
So I, I do believe Flock is a kind

378
00:16:41,066 --> 00:16:42,467
of a part of that discussion.

379
00:16:42,500 --> 00:16:45,934
So we will have that coming up later tonight on the agenda

380
00:16:45,934 --> 00:16:47,467
and we'll be taking some public comments.

381
00:16:47,667 --> 00:16:52,100
So just ask if anyone has anything on related to that to try

382
00:16:52,100 --> 00:16:53,934
to hold those remarks to that point.

383
00:16:55,500 --> 00:16:57,834
But since this is still Public Comment, for items

384
00:16:57,834 --> 00:16:59,100
that are not on our agenda,

385
00:16:59,100 --> 00:17:00,634
anyone else in the room had anything

386
00:17:00,834 --> 00:17:02,467
that wasn't on the agenda that they wanted

387
00:17:02,467 --> 00:17:03,533
to discuss this evening?

388
00:17:06,066 --> 00:17:07,700
Not CNA in the room. Anyone online?

389
00:17:11,033 --> 00:17:12,133
Okay, not CNA.

390
00:17:12,700 --> 00:17:16,300
For further we'll close Public Comment, we'll go

391
00:17:16,300 --> 00:17:19,033
to the approval of the minutes from our September 1st

392
00:17:19,033 --> 00:17:20,700
meeting pending no corrections,

393
00:17:21,100 --> 00:17:22,567
do I have a motion to approve those?

394
00:17:22,767 --> 00:17:25,000
This is Patty. So moved. And do we have a second?

395
00:17:25,433 --> 00:17:28,266
This is Trevor. I'll second. Okay. Motion be made by Ms.

396
00:17:28,266 --> 00:17:31,066
Stephens, second by Mr. White. All those in favor say aye.

397
00:17:31,467 --> 00:17:35,734
Aye. A Any opposed? Say aye. Aye. A motion passes.

398
00:17:35,867 --> 00:17:37,066
And next we have some reports

399
00:17:37,100 --> 00:17:40,500
and presentations for our diversity, equity

400
00:17:40,500 --> 00:17:43,066
and inclusionary activities and acknowledgements.

401
00:17:43,533 --> 00:17:46,066
September is suicide prevention month.

402
00:17:46,500 --> 00:17:48,000
Next step will be our authorities,

403
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:49,133
boards and commissions reports.

404
00:17:49,367 --> 00:17:51,667
And we'll start with the Spring Creek Watershed Commission

405
00:17:51,667 --> 00:17:53,000
and that will be presented by Mr.

406
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:54,000
Kevin Abbey.

407
00:18:00,467 --> 00:18:04,533
- Thank you. Kevin Abbey, Ferguson Township resident

408
00:18:04,734 --> 00:18:08,934
and representative to the Spring Creek Watershed Commission.

409
00:18:10,667 --> 00:18:15,333
We have made a practice that I come in and report quarterly.

410
00:18:16,066 --> 00:18:20,367
So this being my report for the third quarter, I wanted

411
00:18:20,467 --> 00:18:25,000
to just touch base on the materials that I sent you

412
00:18:27,100 --> 00:18:30,367
to transmit the 2027 budget

413
00:18:31,100 --> 00:18:34,734
from the watershed commission passed at the,

414
00:18:34,934 --> 00:18:38,767
our last business meeting, which was mid-July.

415
00:18:40,433 --> 00:18:43,066
And that was sent to the Township along

416
00:18:43,066 --> 00:18:45,533
with budget letter.

417
00:18:46,100 --> 00:18:50,033
Many folks, when we went through this exercise

418
00:18:51,233 --> 00:18:55,233
the previous year, asked us to catalog when we come in,

419
00:18:55,900 --> 00:18:58,066
what activities have been underway.

420
00:18:58,133 --> 00:19:00,767
So I included eight, eight

421
00:19:00,767 --> 00:19:02,233
or nine bullet points

422
00:19:02,900 --> 00:19:06,066
that the commission has been actively involved in.

423
00:19:06,700 --> 00:19:10,133
And I won't go through all of those one by one,

424
00:19:10,166 --> 00:19:12,066
you've got a full audience

425
00:19:12,100 --> 00:19:14,867
and a lot of people that want to make presentations.

426
00:19:15,500 --> 00:19:20,100
So I would just submit those materials,

427
00:19:20,934 --> 00:19:25,233
the practices that we adopt our budget in July,

428
00:19:26,133 --> 00:19:28,867
get it out to the member municipalities in September.

429
00:19:29,266 --> 00:19:34,266
So you know, what we're asking

430
00:19:34,433 --> 00:19:38,634
or requesting as you start to move into your budget season,

431
00:19:39,834 --> 00:19:42,634
probably the primary thing to identify is

432
00:19:43,133 --> 00:19:48,066
we're the watershed commission felt no increase in the

433
00:19:48,567 --> 00:19:52,100
per capita levy that funds the commission,

434
00:19:52,233 --> 00:19:54,834
which is set at 25 cents

435
00:19:55,634 --> 00:19:59,934
and based on the 2020 census that generates right

436
00:19:59,934 --> 00:20:02,033
around $30,000 a year.

437
00:20:02,500 --> 00:20:05,700
So any questions or

438
00:20:06,233 --> 00:20:07,233
- Any questions from Mr.

439
00:20:07,300 --> 00:20:08,300
Abby?

440
00:20:10,467 --> 00:20:12,000
- Thank you, Travis, - Go ahead.

441
00:20:12,066 --> 00:20:14,033
I just wanna say thank you again for the report,

442
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:15,467
the information and the details

443
00:20:15,500 --> 00:20:18,033
of saying here are the important things to, to focus on.

444
00:20:18,033 --> 00:20:20,333
That always helps me in deliberation and conversation.

445
00:20:20,567 --> 00:20:22,767
So thank you for providing that insight. Thank

446
00:20:22,767 --> 00:20:23,767
- You.

447
00:20:23,767 --> 00:20:25,033
Yeah. Okay.

448
00:20:26,867 --> 00:20:28,333
- Thank you. - Thanks.

449
00:20:29,266 --> 00:20:29,834
- Alright.

450
00:20:33,634 --> 00:20:34,533
- It's gonna say Mr.

451
00:20:34,567 --> 00:20:37,767
Mr. Abby is represented Township well on that commission

452
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,100
for quite a few years, and we thank him

453
00:20:40,133 --> 00:20:42,000
for his participation.

454
00:20:42,333 --> 00:20:45,367
Next up, we'll have the university joint authority UHAA

455
00:20:45,367 --> 00:20:46,767
report presented by Wes

456
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:48,000
- Wesley Glebe.

457
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:18,467
- All right. I I assume you have this in your packet.

458
00:21:18,834 --> 00:21:23,333
We do. Okay. So I'll just spin over like,

459
00:21:23,433 --> 00:21:26,033
the first item is ozone disinfection.

460
00:21:27,133 --> 00:21:31,467
And that's been a long haul coming online

461
00:21:31,700 --> 00:21:33,066
to the finished state,

462
00:21:36,433 --> 00:21:40,934
but I think as I understand it, it's,

463
00:21:41,133 --> 00:21:43,700
it's completely up and running now.

464
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,066
You can see that it's

465
00:21:49,533 --> 00:21:51,066
a much more effective

466
00:21:51,100 --> 00:21:55,367
and disinfectant for the end process

467
00:21:55,834 --> 00:21:58,033
of our reuse water than

468
00:22:01,100 --> 00:22:02,533
o ultraviolet was.

469
00:22:02,834 --> 00:22:06,367
And ultraviolet was a real hog as far as energy consumption.

470
00:22:06,734 --> 00:22:10,133
So I think we should all be glad that we're off of that.

471
00:22:10,333 --> 00:22:12,734
And on to ozone.

472
00:22:13,166 --> 00:22:17,100
Now, I make a joke that we had to make a, a contract

473
00:22:17,100 --> 00:22:18,333
with the Ozone nation.

474
00:22:19,533 --> 00:22:22,133
They, they live in, in Upper Ontario,

475
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:24,300
but everything's still good.

476
00:22:26,500 --> 00:22:27,100
Ha ha.

477
00:22:31,433 --> 00:22:34,000
So I won't go into that anymore.

478
00:22:36,100 --> 00:22:38,133
The anaerobic digester

479
00:22:38,133 --> 00:22:42,333
and sludge dryer, that's, that was probably one

480
00:22:42,333 --> 00:22:44,033
of our biggest projects to date,

481
00:22:44,166 --> 00:22:47,000
at least since I've been on A-U-H-A-A board.

482
00:22:50,133 --> 00:22:53,100
It's not entirely up and running.

483
00:22:53,734 --> 00:22:57,100
It takes a while to get the

484
00:22:57,934 --> 00:23:00,834
digester is completely full so

485
00:23:00,834 --> 00:23:03,533
that they're making methane.

486
00:23:05,667 --> 00:23:07,567
Methane is, is captured

487
00:23:08,834 --> 00:23:11,266
and then the CO2 is separated from it.

488
00:23:11,467 --> 00:23:15,333
CO2 has a, has a, a resale value

489
00:23:15,700 --> 00:23:17,266
that's being pursued.

490
00:23:20,133 --> 00:23:21,367
So we'll have to wait

491
00:23:21,367 --> 00:23:23,500
and see when

492
00:23:23,500 --> 00:23:26,500
that's completely fully operating.

493
00:23:26,734 --> 00:23:30,467
One thing that that did happen was, is that the price

494
00:23:30,467 --> 00:23:35,033
of gas, since the digesters were starting to be filled,

495
00:23:35,934 --> 00:23:37,367
has just rocketed up.

496
00:23:38,100 --> 00:23:40,467
When I say gas, I mean natural gas.

497
00:23:41,900 --> 00:23:45,767
And so I think it's official,

498
00:23:45,900 --> 00:23:49,500
but I mean, I was there when they were talking about it.

499
00:23:50,133 --> 00:23:51,567
That doesn't make it official,

500
00:23:51,734 --> 00:23:55,000
but they're going to

501
00:23:56,100 --> 00:24:00,567
put in a new pipeline from the digesters to the dryers

502
00:24:01,367 --> 00:24:05,000
so that we keep and use the na the natural gas

503
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,767
that's produced because it's economically more viable.

504
00:24:08,467 --> 00:24:12,066
So that's, that's just come up with that line.

505
00:24:12,233 --> 00:24:14,000
It can be shunted off

506
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,567
or on, so it can be go to resale

507
00:24:17,700 --> 00:24:22,100
or it can go to on onsite use, which is kind

508
00:24:22,300 --> 00:24:23,300
of a nice feature.

509
00:24:24,667 --> 00:24:28,000
And I, that, that pipe will cost about a hundred thousand.

510
00:24:28,166 --> 00:24:30,467
So it seems like it's well worth it.

511
00:24:34,834 --> 00:24:39,100
The, the other exciting thing for me in terms of community

512
00:24:39,900 --> 00:24:43,500
is that UAA is partnering with five

513
00:24:43,500 --> 00:24:47,333
or six nearby wastewater treatment plants,

514
00:24:49,100 --> 00:24:53,066
and they're having to truck

515
00:24:54,100 --> 00:24:58,100
their biosolids to

516
00:24:59,100 --> 00:25:03,133
landfill, which there's nothing sustainable about

517
00:25:03,700 --> 00:25:05,734
landfill for the most part.

518
00:25:06,500 --> 00:25:09,066
So they'll now be trucking it to us

519
00:25:10,033 --> 00:25:13,066
and we'll process their solids.

520
00:25:14,233 --> 00:25:17,500
And there's a fee, a tonnage fee.

521
00:25:17,934 --> 00:25:19,533
I, I don't know what it is,

522
00:25:19,734 --> 00:25:24,700
but it's, it's, it's a money making enterprise

523
00:25:25,567 --> 00:25:27,066
for the UAJA

524
00:25:27,133 --> 00:25:30,367
and which will help pay down the overall cost

525
00:25:30,433 --> 00:25:31,634
of the whole new system

526
00:25:32,433 --> 00:25:37,266
and keep a tonnage outta landfills.

527
00:25:38,100 --> 00:25:40,000
So, hey, that's gotta be good, right?

528
00:25:51,100 --> 00:25:54,000
So you can see there's, there's savings

529
00:25:54,100 --> 00:25:58,634
and there'll be income when everything is completely going.

530
00:25:59,634 --> 00:26:01,734
Now the 5 37 plan,

531
00:26:03,266 --> 00:26:05,634
that seems like it's been going on forever,

532
00:26:06,433 --> 00:26:11,266
but Ben from HRG was in the last

533
00:26:11,266 --> 00:26:14,467
meeting and he says everything's,

534
00:26:15,100 --> 00:26:18,000
everything's going good on that.

535
00:26:20,266 --> 00:26:23,033
So I'm not gonna dwell on that.

536
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,100
The rate dispute with the State College Borough,

537
00:26:30,500 --> 00:26:34,867
I got up at Borough Council at the last council meeting and,

538
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,100
and asked the council members to speak to their

539
00:26:41,133 --> 00:26:43,233
representatives, you know who they are

540
00:26:44,166 --> 00:26:47,066
and please, let's get this thing settled.

541
00:26:47,333 --> 00:26:51,533
It it's too small of a, of an area to keep

542
00:26:52,667 --> 00:26:54,066
pushing this into court.

543
00:26:55,700 --> 00:27:00,100
So I'm hoping, I saw,

544
00:27:01,634 --> 00:27:05,100
I saw the mayor at a, at a meeting last night

545
00:27:05,033 --> 00:27:07,500
and asked him, do you think anybody listened to me?

546
00:27:07,500 --> 00:27:10,100
And he said, oh yeah. Oh yeah, well,

547
00:27:10,166 --> 00:27:12,867
you know, we'll see.

548
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,767
We'll, the put in

549
00:27:17,767 --> 00:27:20,133
town road interceptor

550
00:27:27,467 --> 00:27:32,333
that's been grinding on too with people,

551
00:27:32,767 --> 00:27:36,033
you know, whinging about upsetting

552
00:27:37,100 --> 00:27:39,834
the, the marsh.

553
00:27:42,533 --> 00:27:47,100
And recently Corey

554
00:27:47,934 --> 00:27:52,433
had an opportunity to talk to the stakeholders

555
00:27:53,100 --> 00:27:58,000
and suggested that they work on a comprehensive plan

556
00:27:59,567 --> 00:28:01,634
for getting these kinds of things done.

557
00:28:02,834 --> 00:28:06,133
So I was with Darren Brown yesterday

558
00:28:07,266 --> 00:28:09,634
and doing a, a ride along.

559
00:28:09,867 --> 00:28:14,166
And there, he's, he's a supervisor of

560
00:28:15,533 --> 00:28:16,567
collection systems.

561
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,333
So they're hoping that this is a kind of a project

562
00:28:22,133 --> 00:28:26,734
that when UAJ does it, they'll do it at an optimal time,

563
00:28:26,867 --> 00:28:29,066
like in the winter when the ground is frozen

564
00:28:29,033 --> 00:28:30,834
and there'll be the least amount of damage

565
00:28:30,834 --> 00:28:35,033
and they'll, they'll lay plates down

566
00:28:35,700 --> 00:28:37,667
all, all the way in and out.

567
00:28:37,867 --> 00:28:41,000
So, you know, the damage will be minimal.

568
00:28:41,700 --> 00:28:44,133
And most of the stuff that people are worrying about,

569
00:28:45,233 --> 00:28:46,567
they're going to grow back.

570
00:28:48,100 --> 00:28:51,166
There's no way to get around dealing with the interceptor.

571
00:28:51,233 --> 00:28:52,500
It's, it's too small.

572
00:28:53,533 --> 00:28:58,233
And with the, the Greystar thing

573
00:28:58,266 --> 00:29:02,100
going in, it needs to be done.

574
00:29:02,700 --> 00:29:06,634
So I don't know if that that is understandable,

575
00:29:06,934 --> 00:29:11,700
but solar array one purchase

576
00:29:15,033 --> 00:29:19,834
that's moving along, I was surprised to see that in here.

577
00:29:19,934 --> 00:29:21,133
I thought we had already done that.

578
00:29:21,300 --> 00:29:25,500
But anyway, the

579
00:29:26,700 --> 00:29:29,166
non-residential rate alternatives,

580
00:29:35,467 --> 00:29:37,133
that's been going for a while.

581
00:29:37,367 --> 00:29:42,333
As you know, mark, mark worked on that study and

582
00:29:47,467 --> 00:29:51,934
the recommendation was is that we collect data

583
00:29:53,033 --> 00:29:57,066
in terms of, of volumetric water flow, divide that into,

584
00:29:57,700 --> 00:30:01,567
into EDUs and Bill that way.

585
00:30:04,266 --> 00:30:07,634
So again, it's not resolved yet,

586
00:30:07,767 --> 00:30:09,567
but it's moving along.

587
00:30:12,867 --> 00:30:14,634
Do you want me to go over the financial things

588
00:30:15,734 --> 00:30:16,734
- And, and when?

589
00:30:17,367 --> 00:30:19,166
- Okay, I - Think we're good there. We wes,

590
00:30:23,333 --> 00:30:24,367
- My, my sense

591
00:30:24,367 --> 00:30:26,266
after five years is it's

592
00:30:27,867 --> 00:30:29,367
UHA is a well run machine

593
00:30:30,033 --> 00:30:34,900
and yeah, I spend time with the guys out in the field

594
00:30:35,767 --> 00:30:39,133
and a lot of them are older and they're all happy.

595
00:30:39,467 --> 00:30:42,000
They're all all happy to have the jobs that they have.

596
00:30:43,433 --> 00:30:45,834
Everybody knows what they're doing.

597
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:50,567
It's not, I've been on jobs where you have a bunch of

598
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,700
of green people and nobody knows what they're doing.

599
00:30:55,033 --> 00:30:57,500
And so the job takes five times as long

600
00:30:58,100 --> 00:31:00,100
and of course costs five times more.

601
00:31:00,867 --> 00:31:03,266
And I, I think UHA is extraordinarily

602
00:31:03,934 --> 00:31:06,066
efficient in those, in those terms.

603
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:08,634
So I'll close with that. And

604
00:31:09,634 --> 00:31:12,233
- Any questions or remarks for West, Mr.

605
00:31:12,300 --> 00:31:14,734
- Galler? Mr. Gle, as I mentioned earlier, Mr.

606
00:31:14,900 --> 00:31:17,133
Abby, again, I appreciate you putting together the report

607
00:31:17,133 --> 00:31:18,934
and, and making it nice and concise.

608
00:31:19,433 --> 00:31:22,100
I will have, I do have a proposal though, if I may,

609
00:31:22,500 --> 00:31:24,000
for the sludge dryer.

610
00:31:24,900 --> 00:31:27,000
I get tired of seeing the name Sludge dryer.

611
00:31:27,033 --> 00:31:28,934
You know, it's, it appears this and that.

612
00:31:29,066 --> 00:31:31,567
What about there's always been wonderful, something

613
00:31:31,634 --> 00:31:32,634
- Sexier.

614
00:31:32,634 --> 00:31:35,066
- Well something, let, let's say it this way maybe

615
00:31:35,367 --> 00:31:36,867
that there's always outreach

616
00:31:36,867 --> 00:31:39,066
between the elementary schools and UHAA.

617
00:31:39,066 --> 00:31:40,166
There are tours and this and that.

618
00:31:40,300 --> 00:31:42,133
- Oh, fifth graders, they love

619
00:31:42,133 --> 00:31:43,000
it. They all go through. Yeah.

620
00:31:43,066 --> 00:31:46,100
- Right. So why not offer a competition

621
00:31:46,467 --> 00:31:48,133
to name the sludge dryer?

622
00:31:48,133 --> 00:31:51,734
Something better. Cool. Something fun, right? Well

623
00:31:51,734 --> 00:31:53,433
- I have - Sludgy mc sludge face,

624
00:31:53,734 --> 00:31:55,133
- Have a UAJ meeting tomorrow

625
00:31:55,533 --> 00:31:58,100
and I will definitely bring that up.

626
00:31:58,266 --> 00:32:00,867
- I think it'd be a lot of fun now. So thank you.

627
00:32:00,934 --> 00:32:02,667
And on a more serious note, I know a lot

628
00:32:02,667 --> 00:32:04,233
of constituents are interested in what's going

629
00:32:04,233 --> 00:32:07,133
to be happening with the potential, the budget

630
00:32:07,834 --> 00:32:08,867
disagreement with State College.

631
00:32:09,266 --> 00:32:11,233
So I know folks are watching that

632
00:32:11,233 --> 00:32:12,734
and again, I appreciate the update

633
00:32:12,734 --> 00:32:15,133
and yeah, I might move to trial, so thank

634
00:32:15,133 --> 00:32:16,133
- You.

635
00:32:16,133 --> 00:32:17,834
Yeah, and I'd like to say to Warren

636
00:32:17,867 --> 00:32:22,133
and Jenna, Melissa Komar, who works

637
00:32:22,233 --> 00:32:23,567
for HRG now

638
00:32:23,634 --> 00:32:26,133
and who used to be head

639
00:32:26,133 --> 00:32:28,900
of this sewer authority in Johnstown

640
00:32:29,066 --> 00:32:31,700
and then was head of redevelopment council.

641
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,000
She's scheduling in for a tour

642
00:32:37,367 --> 00:32:39,166
at my suggestion.

643
00:32:40,033 --> 00:32:43,033
Great. And it would be great if you two

644
00:32:43,100 --> 00:32:45,100
or anybody else would want to bring along, could,

645
00:32:45,166 --> 00:32:47,033
could coordinate with that tour

646
00:32:48,500 --> 00:32:51,500
and I'm hoping that Corey will do a little sit down after

647
00:32:51,867 --> 00:32:53,634
- James and I already met with Corey the other week.

648
00:32:53,867 --> 00:32:55,834
James and I did a tour last week.

649
00:32:56,667 --> 00:32:58,767
- Oh, you did your tour with? - With Corey.

650
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,033
- Oh. Oh, okay. I didn't, I didn't know that.

651
00:33:01,266 --> 00:33:03,100
See I'm not really up to date.

652
00:33:03,033 --> 00:33:08,033
You know, it's on a need to know basis. Okay,

653
00:33:08,467 --> 00:33:09,467
- Thank you.

654
00:33:09,500 --> 00:33:10,934
Thank you. Thank you Wes.

655
00:33:15,066 --> 00:33:18,934
Alright, next we have the Centre County Ag Land Preservation

656
00:33:19,033 --> 00:33:21,467
Easement purchase Program in Ferguson Township.

657
00:33:21,500 --> 00:33:23,333
And I will recognize the Township manager

658
00:33:23,433 --> 00:33:24,767
to introduce our special guest,

659
00:33:24,867 --> 00:33:27,767
- Certainly from the Centre County Ag Agricultural Land

660
00:33:27,767 --> 00:33:29,567
Preservation Easement Purchase Program.

661
00:33:30,467 --> 00:33:33,300
We have presented by Elizabeth Perone. Hue

662
00:33:34,634 --> 00:33:35,634
- Everyone.

663
00:33:35,634 --> 00:33:39,533
- Thank you. - Good evening guys. My name's Elizabeth.

664
00:33:39,834 --> 00:33:41,033
I am the coordinator

665
00:33:41,100 --> 00:33:43,533
for the Agricultural Land Preservation Board.

666
00:33:44,500 --> 00:33:47,367
So I'm here it's budget season. I was here last year.

667
00:33:47,533 --> 00:33:48,767
I don't know if you guys remember me.

668
00:33:49,533 --> 00:33:52,033
Just here to give some background on the program,

669
00:33:53,133 --> 00:33:55,066
talk about what we do.

670
00:33:58,266 --> 00:34:00,634
Yeah, get excited about

671
00:34:00,634 --> 00:34:04,000
preservation Next.

672
00:34:05,100 --> 00:34:08,867
So S County AG Land Preservation Board, C-C-A-L-P-B

673
00:34:09,033 --> 00:34:11,000
'cause that's a very long title.

674
00:34:12,667 --> 00:34:15,834
What do we do? We administer a program for the purchase

675
00:34:15,834 --> 00:34:19,066
of agricultural conservation easements with in accordance

676
00:34:19,066 --> 00:34:20,367
with Act 1 49.

677
00:34:21,133 --> 00:34:24,500
ACT 1 49 amends the Ag Security area law

678
00:34:25,266 --> 00:34:28,867
from 1988 establishing Pennsylvania's agricultural

679
00:34:28,934 --> 00:34:30,567
conservation easement program.

680
00:34:31,367 --> 00:34:34,066
It amended the A SA law to further provide

681
00:34:34,100 --> 00:34:38,233
for agricultural areas Public Hearing evaluation criteria,

682
00:34:38,767 --> 00:34:40,700
decisions and review of proposed areas,

683
00:34:41,300 --> 00:34:44,033
appeals limitations on local agencies, policies

684
00:34:44,033 --> 00:34:46,867
of the commonwealth, limitation on exercise

685
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,033
and exercise of eminent domain

686
00:34:49,166 --> 00:34:51,000
and purchases of development rights.

687
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:53,266
We also promote efforts

688
00:34:53,333 --> 00:34:55,934
to support the ag community in Centre County.

689
00:34:56,467 --> 00:34:57,734
And we encourage the use

690
00:34:57,734 --> 00:34:59,934
of additional farmland preservation techniques

691
00:35:00,100 --> 00:35:02,300
through agricultural, through public

692
00:35:02,300 --> 00:35:03,333
and private organizations.

693
00:35:03,433 --> 00:35:06,834
That includes Clearwater Centre County Farmland Trust,

694
00:35:07,033 --> 00:35:09,634
Western Pennsylvania Conservancy and others.

695
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:14,033
I'm sure we adopt rules of procedures

696
00:35:14,033 --> 00:35:17,867
and bylaws governing the operation of the county board.

697
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,033
And we purchase in the name of the county

698
00:35:20,100 --> 00:35:21,934
or jointly with local government unit

699
00:35:22,900 --> 00:35:24,100
or with the commonwealth

700
00:35:24,433 --> 00:35:25,500
or federal government

701
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,533
to purchase these agricultural easements.

702
00:35:31,867 --> 00:35:35,567
The purpose of the sushi A LPB is to, it was created

703
00:35:35,667 --> 00:35:37,867
by the commissioners in 1989

704
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,300
to preserve farmland at the county level in conjunction

705
00:35:41,500 --> 00:35:43,734
with the municipality and the state.

706
00:35:44,500 --> 00:35:47,066
15 municipalities have ASAs

707
00:35:47,367 --> 00:35:49,700
and a total of total acreage

708
00:35:49,700 --> 00:35:52,300
of about 85,000 acres in Centre

709
00:35:52,300 --> 00:35:55,033
County countywide.

710
00:35:55,033 --> 00:35:58,467
We have 74 preserved farms through the PACE program

711
00:35:59,467 --> 00:36:02,300
totaling 9,619 acres

712
00:36:03,166 --> 00:36:07,333
and have, we have three farms in process right now totaling

713
00:36:07,333 --> 00:36:09,100
just shy of 240 acres.

714
00:36:09,634 --> 00:36:11,033
And I have 36 farms

715
00:36:11,367 --> 00:36:14,100
or just over 5,000 acres on my wait list.

716
00:36:14,934 --> 00:36:17,033
Of the 5,000 acres waiting.

717
00:36:17,567 --> 00:36:20,533
1,131 are in Ferguson Township.

718
00:36:22,734 --> 00:36:25,266
So what is an A SA? We have to start at the beginning here.

719
00:36:26,266 --> 00:36:27,333
A common misconception.

720
00:36:27,700 --> 00:36:29,100
A SA do not regulate

721
00:36:29,100 --> 00:36:32,066
or restrict development Harner farm over here.

722
00:36:32,100 --> 00:36:35,100
That is now a sheets is still technically in the A SA.

723
00:36:37,133 --> 00:36:39,100
They do provide an incentive for farmers

724
00:36:39,100 --> 00:36:41,066
to make a long-term commitment to farming.

725
00:36:42,133 --> 00:36:45,734
To form an A SA, there must be 250 acres

726
00:36:46,233 --> 00:36:49,333
in a municipality or more that wish to enroll.

727
00:36:50,166 --> 00:36:52,266
The land can be farmland or woodland

728
00:36:52,867 --> 00:36:55,300
and it's protected from local nuisance ordinances

729
00:36:55,300 --> 00:36:56,734
and other ordinances that would

730
00:36:56,767 --> 00:36:59,066
otherwise restrict farming activities.

731
00:37:00,367 --> 00:37:02,300
The purpose is to ultimately be able

732
00:37:02,300 --> 00:37:03,634
to apply for the PACE program.

733
00:37:05,266 --> 00:37:06,867
The landowner enrollment

734
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,000
and removal is completely voluntary.

735
00:37:09,734 --> 00:37:13,000
There are no restrictions placed on the land outside

736
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,033
of normal municipal ordinances such

737
00:37:15,033 --> 00:37:16,500
as Zoning and subdivision.

738
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:18,734
The landowner can sell subdivide

739
00:37:18,734 --> 00:37:21,934
or develop as shown by Harner farm over here.

740
00:37:22,634 --> 00:37:25,367
It is a general community statement that farming is part

741
00:37:25,367 --> 00:37:27,900
of the community and an industry that is embraced

742
00:37:27,900 --> 00:37:30,433
through volunteer recognition of prime farmland.

743
00:37:32,734 --> 00:37:36,700
So what do I do? The PACE program is purchase

744
00:37:36,700 --> 00:37:38,567
of agricultural conservation easement.

745
00:37:39,533 --> 00:37:42,266
It is administered by the Department of Agriculture,

746
00:37:42,333 --> 00:37:44,000
which contributes money each year.

747
00:37:44,867 --> 00:37:48,867
The amount they contribute is calculated based on county

748
00:37:48,934 --> 00:37:53,233
farm yields, size of farm and prevalence of preservation.

749
00:37:54,500 --> 00:37:56,634
Once clothing closing has occurred,

750
00:37:56,867 --> 00:37:58,734
the property is eased in perpetuity.

751
00:37:59,867 --> 00:38:04,734
To be eligible, the property must be enrolled in the A SA.

752
00:38:04,734 --> 00:38:08,634
The ag security area must be at least 10 acres

753
00:38:08,634 --> 00:38:13,066
of tillable land or growing a specialty crop.

754
00:38:13,867 --> 00:38:16,300
If it's not adjacent or growing a specialty crop,

755
00:38:16,300 --> 00:38:20,767
it must be 50 acres, has to be 50% crop land.

756
00:38:20,900 --> 00:38:23,033
If Woodland is not being donated, which is kind

757
00:38:23,033 --> 00:38:26,033
of a unique portion of our program in this county,

758
00:38:26,667 --> 00:38:28,500
and they have to have a conservation plan

759
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,300
through the NRCS by the closing date.

760
00:38:33,233 --> 00:38:35,133
So what are some of the impacts on a

761
00:38:35,533 --> 00:38:36,767
property enrolled in the PACE program?

762
00:38:37,533 --> 00:38:40,300
Farms retain their deed of conservation easement.

763
00:38:40,834 --> 00:38:43,100
They're subject to municipal regulations.

764
00:38:43,133 --> 00:38:45,734
Just because they're in my program doesn't mean they get

765
00:38:45,734 --> 00:38:47,834
to ignore what their Township has to say.

766
00:38:48,266 --> 00:38:50,233
They can build one additional resident,

767
00:38:50,233 --> 00:38:53,033
they can perform one residential subdivision

768
00:38:54,100 --> 00:38:56,066
and can perform one general subdivision,

769
00:38:56,066 --> 00:38:57,533
which is greater than 10 acres.

770
00:38:58,500 --> 00:39:01,066
Some restrictions they cannot add any new right

771
00:39:01,066 --> 00:39:02,467
of ways other than utilities.

772
00:39:03,133 --> 00:39:04,634
They cannot develop their property

773
00:39:05,100 --> 00:39:07,100
and certain rural enterprises might not be allowed

774
00:39:08,467 --> 00:39:09,533
under the restrictions.

775
00:39:10,300 --> 00:39:13,000
Some other things that would not be allowed are graveling

776
00:39:13,133 --> 00:39:15,500
paving, excavating for rural enterprise.

777
00:39:16,233 --> 00:39:17,867
And they're not allowed to take land out

778
00:39:17,867 --> 00:39:20,834
of agricultural production like turning a corn field into a

779
00:39:20,834 --> 00:39:22,300
gravel lot or building a wedding venue

780
00:39:22,333 --> 00:39:23,333
in the middle of that field.

781
00:39:26,100 --> 00:39:28,333
So the reason I'm here tonight is this budget season.

782
00:39:30,333 --> 00:39:35,100
We have four different pots of funds that we tap into.

783
00:39:36,100 --> 00:39:40,000
The first and most impactful is local government unit.

784
00:39:40,433 --> 00:39:43,300
This is taken into consideration when a farm is advanced

785
00:39:43,300 --> 00:39:44,567
and the municipality would like

786
00:39:44,567 --> 00:39:46,634
to support the preservation of the property.

787
00:39:47,734 --> 00:39:49,734
They also become a holder of the easement.

788
00:39:51,133 --> 00:39:52,934
It is dictated by the municipality.

789
00:39:53,734 --> 00:39:57,300
And if a, excuse me, if a municipality would like

790
00:39:57,300 --> 00:39:59,634
to pull a farm out of ranked order, they can commit

791
00:39:59,634 --> 00:40:01,033
to contributing more funds.

792
00:40:01,367 --> 00:40:05,100
This allows a farm to be moved out of order

793
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:06,133
to the top of the list.

794
00:40:06,867 --> 00:40:09,100
The lower down farm is the more money

795
00:40:09,567 --> 00:40:11,033
the municipality has to contribute.

796
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:13,834
Secondly is county funding this.

797
00:40:14,233 --> 00:40:16,834
The county always allocates to $80,000.

798
00:40:17,133 --> 00:40:19,533
We also get clean and green rollback taxes.

799
00:40:20,033 --> 00:40:24,834
A portion of 'em, the $80,000 is used to contribute $30,000

800
00:40:24,834 --> 00:40:27,634
to each farm to help spread out our spending power.

801
00:40:28,467 --> 00:40:31,000
And we don't like to see property taken outta clean green.

802
00:40:31,266 --> 00:40:33,934
But when it is, the PACE program does benefit.

803
00:40:35,066 --> 00:40:37,634
This last year it was just over $27,000.

804
00:40:40,500 --> 00:40:43,734
Our non-local funds. Third would be state funding.

805
00:40:43,900 --> 00:40:48,100
The state has a very complicated formula to calculate

806
00:40:48,133 --> 00:40:50,000
how much money we get available.

807
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,367
Funds are defi decided by tobacco purchases, average side

808
00:40:53,367 --> 00:40:56,100
of farms, number of farms on our wait list,

809
00:40:56,133 --> 00:40:57,634
average appraisal value,

810
00:40:58,233 --> 00:40:59,867
national Agricultural Statistics Service,

811
00:41:00,834 --> 00:41:04,700
and how much we can contribute as a county.

812
00:41:05,667 --> 00:41:10,500
The municipality portion also helps to add into that.

813
00:41:11,100 --> 00:41:13,266
And finally we have federal funding,

814
00:41:13,533 --> 00:41:15,533
which is reimbursed to the county.

815
00:41:16,033 --> 00:41:17,500
It's a very large pot of money.

816
00:41:17,500 --> 00:41:18,834
Right now I think there's more than

817
00:41:18,834 --> 00:41:20,533
$10 million waiting to be spent.

818
00:41:22,100 --> 00:41:24,500
They must meet the NRCS criteria

819
00:41:24,667 --> 00:41:27,867
and be willing to go through a longer, more complex process.

820
00:41:28,700 --> 00:41:32,734
And the county receives that 50% back at the end

821
00:41:32,734 --> 00:41:34,033
of the preservation process.

822
00:41:35,834 --> 00:41:38,500
This is a map of all the preserved farms in Centre County.

823
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:42,634
This includes Centre County Farmland Trust,

824
00:41:42,767 --> 00:41:44,300
which is the blue

825
00:41:44,300 --> 00:41:46,734
that you see mostly out in Penns Valley area.

826
00:41:47,133 --> 00:41:49,467
The orange is Clearwater Conservancy.

827
00:41:51,066 --> 00:41:54,000
The very bright green is Half Moon Township Open Spaces.

828
00:41:54,700 --> 00:41:57,066
Purple is Patent Township Open spaces.

829
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,100
And all of those red parcels are the pace parcels.

830
00:42:01,100 --> 00:42:03,033
Those are the ones that are preserved through the county.

831
00:42:03,100 --> 00:42:06,300
And subject to the guidelines that we have,

832
00:42:08,066 --> 00:42:09,934
This is how Ferguson Township looks.

833
00:42:10,033 --> 00:42:12,233
That's pretty spectacular. Everything in red there is

834
00:42:12,233 --> 00:42:13,567
preserved in perpetuity

835
00:42:14,834 --> 00:42:16,867
and they get inspected every year to make sure

836
00:42:16,867 --> 00:42:18,867
that we're not building a new housing

837
00:42:18,867 --> 00:42:20,333
development on the slide.

838
00:42:21,934 --> 00:42:26,734
So Ferguson Township does have like 50%

839
00:42:26,734 --> 00:42:29,867
of all of our preserved farms, which is spectacular.

840
00:42:32,533 --> 00:42:34,533
I just threw in some graphs so that we could see

841
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,133
the total acreage and how it compares.

842
00:42:39,233 --> 00:42:43,000
Go ahead. So Ferguson Township has a total

843
00:42:43,166 --> 00:42:45,233
of just shy of 5,000 acres

844
00:42:46,500 --> 00:42:48,333
in the PACE program.

845
00:42:49,934 --> 00:42:52,500
The next closest is Potter at just shy of two.

846
00:42:52,900 --> 00:42:55,100
So there's, you know, a 3000 acre difference there

847
00:42:57,467 --> 00:42:59,734
for the East Acres Potter Township

848
00:42:59,734 --> 00:43:02,033
or Ferguson Township has 4,400

849
00:43:02,667 --> 00:43:05,266
and the next closest is Potter at 1800.

850
00:43:08,634 --> 00:43:12,033
For the total acres preserved 2021 to present.

851
00:43:12,066 --> 00:43:14,066
That seems like a really arbitrary timeline.

852
00:43:15,133 --> 00:43:19,333
We calculate our acreage in five year increments.

853
00:43:19,333 --> 00:43:22,033
So it would be 2015 to 2020

854
00:43:22,634 --> 00:43:24,700
and then 2021 to 2026.

855
00:43:26,033 --> 00:43:30,300
So Ferguson, since 2021, has 1,129

856
00:43:31,133 --> 00:43:34,567
and the next closest is half Moon at 250.

857
00:43:37,066 --> 00:43:40,467
Finally, the East Acres 2021 to present,

858
00:43:40,867 --> 00:43:42,233
Ferguson has 705

859
00:43:42,700 --> 00:43:46,533
and the next closest is Potter at 204.

860
00:43:51,033 --> 00:43:54,166
So just for demonstration purposes here

861
00:43:55,300 --> 00:43:58,100
in 2023, Ferguson Township preserved three farms,

862
00:43:58,100 --> 00:44:01,100
24, 25, 26, and 27.

863
00:44:01,033 --> 00:44:02,667
It will all be one farm a year.

864
00:44:03,634 --> 00:44:07,033
Since 1999, Ferguson Township has contributed

865
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:11,500
just over half a million dollars to preserver preservation.

866
00:44:11,500 --> 00:44:15,033
Through my program, you have 38 farms.

867
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:19,133
The total monies spent to preserve these farms comes out

868
00:44:19,133 --> 00:44:20,834
to over $12 million.

869
00:44:22,066 --> 00:44:23,634
Ferguson Township has a history

870
00:44:23,634 --> 00:44:27,266
of contributing anywhere from zero to $200,000 for a farm

871
00:44:29,533 --> 00:44:30,834
Up and coming properties.

872
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,133
As a note. Number one is actually the one in progress.

873
00:44:35,367 --> 00:44:38,333
Number two, the outnumbered one is currently number

874
00:44:38,367 --> 00:44:39,567
one on our ranked list.

875
00:44:40,567 --> 00:44:43,066
So in order number one is J Roy Campbell.

876
00:44:43,567 --> 00:44:45,133
The parcel that is not preserved so far,

877
00:44:45,433 --> 00:44:47,133
number two is Marian Sheridan.

878
00:44:48,100 --> 00:44:50,000
Number six is Amanda Auer.

879
00:44:50,233 --> 00:44:52,500
Number seven is Paul and Paula Johnston.

880
00:44:53,066 --> 00:44:57,033
11 is Robert and Nicole stocks 12 is the rider farm.

881
00:44:57,467 --> 00:45:02,033
One of their many 21 and 24 are Dale

882
00:45:02,033 --> 00:45:03,266
and Sarah Bressler.

883
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,834
And number 35 is the David Burett trust.

884
00:45:12,233 --> 00:45:13,567
So if you found this interesting,

885
00:45:13,634 --> 00:45:16,066
there's a QR code takes you to my ag page.

886
00:45:16,133 --> 00:45:17,367
It's an interactive page.

887
00:45:18,133 --> 00:45:21,100
I also currently have two vacancies on my board.

888
00:45:21,500 --> 00:45:24,233
If anyone wants to come hang out with me the fourth Thursday

889
00:45:24,333 --> 00:45:28,066
of the month at six 30 we have a virtual option also.

890
00:45:29,734 --> 00:45:32,700
I have business cards, I've got pamphlets, I've got flyers.

891
00:45:33,734 --> 00:45:35,533
I can leave them here if anyone's interested.

892
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:40,133
And I flew through that. But does anyone have any questions?

893
00:45:43,500 --> 00:45:45,066
- Mr. Heller? - Ms. Perone.

894
00:45:45,166 --> 00:45:48,333
Bruce, thank you again for this. I do have just a question.

895
00:45:48,500 --> 00:45:50,133
What else can we be doing?

896
00:45:50,300 --> 00:45:54,533
Fortunately, as you noted in 2024, we did add 603 acres

897
00:45:54,567 --> 00:45:56,867
to the ag security area, which was huge.

898
00:45:57,100 --> 00:45:58,300
Yeah. So what more

899
00:46:00,333 --> 00:46:03,700
- The next is money and everyone ever needs more money.

900
00:46:04,533 --> 00:46:08,000
- Sure, - Sure. So that's consistently,

901
00:46:08,133 --> 00:46:10,700
you guys have approved a hundred dollars an acre

902
00:46:12,266 --> 00:46:14,700
contributing more per acre would help

903
00:46:14,700 --> 00:46:15,734
stretch the money further.

904
00:46:17,467 --> 00:46:18,734
I realize that's, that's an ask.

905
00:46:19,066 --> 00:46:20,300
I mean everyone needs more money. But

906
00:46:21,133 --> 00:46:23,300
that's, that's the next step.

907
00:46:25,433 --> 00:46:27,767
- Thank you for kind of bringing it home for that.

908
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:29,734
As you're right, this is the beginning

909
00:46:29,734 --> 00:46:31,300
of budget season for a lot of us.

910
00:46:31,834 --> 00:46:34,100
Not only in the municipality but in COG and everything else.

911
00:46:34,734 --> 00:46:37,333
So thank you for being clear

912
00:46:37,333 --> 00:46:38,634
with the ask. I appreciate that.

913
00:46:39,033 --> 00:46:39,133
- Okay,

914
00:46:45,100 --> 00:46:46,100
- Any other questions?

915
00:46:47,100 --> 00:46:49,700
- Okay, - Well thank you so much.

916
00:46:49,734 --> 00:46:53,133
And I, I, I, I thought the number was still about 50%

917
00:46:53,166 --> 00:46:56,133
and yeah, that's like astounding.

918
00:46:56,133 --> 00:46:58,700
I, I was actually surprised a few weeks ago I heard somebody

919
00:46:58,700 --> 00:47:00,734
saying, I don't think Ferguson Township has

920
00:47:00,734 --> 00:47:01,867
an ag preservation program.

921
00:47:02,100 --> 00:47:06,867
I'm like, hmm, my might wanna look into that. Yeah.

922
00:47:07,367 --> 00:47:08,900
- Thank you guys so much for having me.

923
00:47:08,934 --> 00:47:10,000
Have a wonderful evening

924
00:47:10,033 --> 00:47:11,667
and I'll probably see you again next week.

925
00:47:11,667 --> 00:47:12,667
This is

926
00:47:17,133 --> 00:47:18,133
- Mike there?

927
00:47:19,867 --> 00:47:23,934
Yeah. Alright, thank you again.

928
00:47:24,667 --> 00:47:26,133
Let's see, we got the, this

929
00:47:26,133 --> 00:47:28,066
- Meeting is being recorded and summarized.

930
00:47:29,667 --> 00:47:33,834
- We got the department reports and then EMS funding

931
00:47:33,834 --> 00:47:35,300
and then two Consent Agenda items.

932
00:47:35,567 --> 00:47:38,100
Before our discussion on the ADUs

933
00:47:38,100 --> 00:47:40,233
and the automated license plate readers,

934
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,066
did staff have anything in their department

935
00:47:43,066 --> 00:47:44,100
reports that they wanted to point out?

936
00:47:45,100 --> 00:47:47,000
- Just one thing that came out today.

937
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:49,867
There is a drinking water boil alert

938
00:47:50,100 --> 00:47:51,100
for the Rock Springs area.

939
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:56,467
The Township has posted America's waters press release on

940
00:47:56,467 --> 00:48:00,100
the website just for notes.

941
00:48:00,500 --> 00:48:02,767
They'll have non-potable water tanker

942
00:48:02,767 --> 00:48:05,567
and bottle drinking water at the Penn State Ag property.

943
00:48:06,734 --> 00:48:09,100
27 10 West Pine Grove Road.

944
00:48:10,100 --> 00:48:14,000
They should be on site as of 6:00 PM I was notified

945
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:18,233
that they will be staffing that 24 7 oh emergency services,

946
00:48:18,233 --> 00:48:19,734
including the fire department

947
00:48:19,734 --> 00:48:21,834
and our emergency management personnel

948
00:48:21,834 --> 00:48:23,567
through the county have been notified.

949
00:48:23,834 --> 00:48:28,634
So there is an extra tank tanker on site just

950
00:48:28,634 --> 00:48:30,734
for fire suppression should be needed. Alright,

951
00:48:30,834 --> 00:48:31,834
- Good to know.

952
00:48:32,433 --> 00:48:33,734
- That's all I have. Okay.

953
00:48:34,266 --> 00:48:38,767
- Any questions on the department reports? No. Okay.

954
00:48:39,133 --> 00:48:41,100
Think we're good? Thank you Mr. Obenski.

955
00:48:41,634 --> 00:48:43,867
Next we'll go to unfinished business.

956
00:48:43,867 --> 00:48:46,133
We got the discussion authorization for increased funding

957
00:48:46,166 --> 00:48:49,266
for emergency medical services EMS and fire services.

958
00:48:50,266 --> 00:48:52,066
And I'll recognize the manager again.

959
00:48:52,266 --> 00:48:54,734
- Thank you Mr. Chair. That's the last meeting.

960
00:48:55,033 --> 00:48:58,233
September four. First the board Supervisors had an agenda

961
00:48:58,233 --> 00:49:02,700
item with an increased funding to Port Matilda EMS

962
00:49:04,033 --> 00:49:08,100
that was tabled due to a concern from one

963
00:49:08,100 --> 00:49:10,233
of the board members that we have other organizations

964
00:49:10,266 --> 00:49:13,700
that we donate to potentially that have

965
00:49:16,066 --> 00:49:18,000
a larger role in

966
00:49:18,533 --> 00:49:21,233
supporting Township emergency services.

967
00:49:22,333 --> 00:49:26,367
I brought up that we do have funding for four

968
00:49:27,233 --> 00:49:31,033
volunteer agencies, port Matilda EMS Center, EMS,

969
00:49:31,033 --> 00:49:33,066
port Matilda Fire and Warrior's.

970
00:49:33,133 --> 00:49:36,767
Mark, they're currently earmarked at $3,000 each.

971
00:49:37,500 --> 00:49:41,100
The request for this evening is if the board would consider

972
00:49:42,300 --> 00:49:44,700
updating that donation amount to each of those four

973
00:49:44,734 --> 00:49:47,500
to $5,000 beginning in 2026.

974
00:49:48,133 --> 00:49:51,000
And with budget season approaching here next month,

975
00:49:51,500 --> 00:49:52,934
we can determine whether

976
00:49:52,934 --> 00:49:55,033
that funding should be carried forward, increased,

977
00:49:55,100 --> 00:49:56,000
or revisited.

978
00:49:56,233 --> 00:49:58,033
So there's a recommended motion

979
00:49:58,033 --> 00:50:00,100
that the board authorized the increased annual funding

980
00:50:00,266 --> 00:50:04,867
for those four agencies listed from $3,000

981
00:50:05,333 --> 00:50:08,266
to $5,000 beginning in 2026.

982
00:50:08,900 --> 00:50:12,100
And those donations have not gone out as of yet.

983
00:50:12,567 --> 00:50:17,133
- Okay. I have a motion on this item.

984
00:50:18,066 --> 00:50:19,100
- This is Trevor. I'll make the motion as

985
00:50:19,100 --> 00:50:20,100
- Written.

986
00:50:20,100 --> 00:50:22,834
And do we have a second? This is Patty. I'll second. Okay.

987
00:50:22,867 --> 00:50:25,033
Got a motion by Mr. White, second by Ms. Stephens.

988
00:50:26,133 --> 00:50:28,767
Any questions? I'll go to Mr. White.

989
00:50:29,133 --> 00:50:31,033
- I'm assuming it says beginning in 2026

990
00:50:31,033 --> 00:50:33,033
because those, the money has not been sent

991
00:50:33,033 --> 00:50:34,233
out yet. Not because it is

992
00:50:34,266 --> 00:50:36,867
- A typo cor Correct. Okay.

993
00:50:36,867 --> 00:50:40,133
- That's it. Yeah. Mr. Heller,

994
00:50:40,500 --> 00:50:42,233
- I might offer maybe an alternative here

995
00:50:42,734 --> 00:50:45,567
and just say instead of beginning in 2026

996
00:50:46,133 --> 00:50:50,533
instead 4 20 26, we have a lot of other budget pressures

997
00:50:50,533 --> 00:50:52,033
that are gonna be hitting us next year

998
00:50:52,033 --> 00:50:54,066
that I'm learning even more about from the COG budget

999
00:50:54,066 --> 00:50:55,467
hearings and everything else.

1000
00:50:56,266 --> 00:50:58,500
I, I'd like to, I'd like this to maybe come back

1001
00:50:58,500 --> 00:51:00,333
to us again next year if we need to.

1002
00:51:01,100 --> 00:51:02,100
- So Mr. Hall,

1003
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,000
we would be in the budget discussion this year.

1004
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:05,767
This year. So, so we, right. So,

1005
00:51:05,934 --> 00:51:06,934
- So yeah.

1006
00:51:06,934 --> 00:51:09,133
- So we can make that change this year. I will have a note.

1007
00:51:09,166 --> 00:51:10,867
Todd will have it on his records

1008
00:51:11,066 --> 00:51:14,266
that we will bring this up in this discussion obviously

1009
00:51:14,266 --> 00:51:15,634
for budget 2027

1010
00:51:16,500 --> 00:51:17,500
- Then to offer clarity.

1011
00:51:17,634 --> 00:51:20,567
I, I think the word for is an important one instead

1012
00:51:20,567 --> 00:51:22,734
of beginning, which means to me no end.

1013
00:51:23,033 --> 00:51:26,834
Okay. So I would make that, I would offer that

1014
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:30,033
as an amendment to switch the word beginning to four.

1015
00:51:30,333 --> 00:51:33,033
- This is Patty. I'll - Second that amendment on motion

1016
00:51:33,166 --> 00:51:34,300
by made, made by Mr.

1017
00:51:34,767 --> 00:51:36,367
Heller. Second by Ms. Stephens.

1018
00:51:36,934 --> 00:51:41,734
All those in favor of the amendment say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye.

1019
00:51:41,767 --> 00:51:46,000
Okay. Aye. So we're debating the amended motion.

1020
00:51:49,033 --> 00:51:51,433
Any further discussion on that?

1021
00:51:54,433 --> 00:51:56,667
Yeah, I was gonna say good

1022
00:51:56,667 --> 00:51:59,100
with the increased allocation for 2026.

1023
00:52:00,133 --> 00:52:02,734
Look forward to further budget discussions.

1024
00:52:04,634 --> 00:52:07,333
As far as I understand in the historical context, we've kind

1025
00:52:07,333 --> 00:52:10,066
of just basically named a contribution.

1026
00:52:10,066 --> 00:52:12,133
But it would be kind of nice if there was like some type

1027
00:52:12,133 --> 00:52:15,433
of metric or measure to kind of maybe

1028
00:52:17,900 --> 00:52:19,100
be some type of formula

1029
00:52:19,300 --> 00:52:23,133
to maybe make the funding more fair and equitable.

1030
00:52:23,133 --> 00:52:26,634
Because again, port Matilda is a small system center,

1031
00:52:26,634 --> 00:52:28,033
lifelink a much larger system.

1032
00:52:28,033 --> 00:52:32,000
But we all know emergency services, you know,

1033
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:34,266
it's at this point, you know it's gonna take all of us.

1034
00:52:36,033 --> 00:52:37,867
And we even mentioned the last meeting,

1035
00:52:37,867 --> 00:52:41,333
even our state partners to realize

1036
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:45,100
we gotta support our emergency services a lot more.

1037
00:52:45,133 --> 00:52:47,033
So just

1038
00:52:47,433 --> 00:52:49,266
- We can bring you some data back as yeah,

1039
00:52:49,367 --> 00:52:51,667
how many responses to Township for

1040
00:52:52,634 --> 00:52:56,533
this current year to help decide about next year's budget.

1041
00:52:56,867 --> 00:53:00,567
- Okay. Any further discussion on this one?

1042
00:53:03,533 --> 00:53:06,867
You just need a voice vote on this Mr. Yes. Okay.

1043
00:53:07,500 --> 00:53:10,667
All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Say no.

1044
00:53:11,500 --> 00:53:13,266
Okay. Motion passes.

1045
00:53:14,133 --> 00:53:16,033
We have two items on our Consent Agenda.

1046
00:53:16,033 --> 00:53:17,900
We got an authorization of an agreement

1047
00:53:17,900 --> 00:53:19,100
with McCormick Taylor

1048
00:53:19,033 --> 00:53:22,033
for the Valley Vista Drive corridor study in the amount

1049
00:53:22,033 --> 00:53:24,266
of $34,092

1050
00:53:24,634 --> 00:53:28,367
and a microservices contract pay application.

1051
00:53:29,133 --> 00:53:32,834
If no board members wanna pull any of those items,

1052
00:53:33,100 --> 00:53:35,634
I take a motion to approve the Consent Agenda. This

1053
00:53:35,634 --> 00:53:37,100
- Is Trevor. So moved. This is Patty.

1054
00:53:37,100 --> 00:53:40,033
- I'll second. I got a motion by Mr. White, second by Ms.

1055
00:53:40,033 --> 00:53:43,367
Stephens. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed?

1056
00:53:43,500 --> 00:53:47,767
Say no. Alright. Next step will be a board member discussion

1057
00:53:47,767 --> 00:53:49,100
request on the modification

1058
00:53:49,133 --> 00:53:52,100
to accessory dwelling unit A DU definition.

1059
00:53:52,900 --> 00:53:55,100
And before I hand it over to Mr. White,

1060
00:53:55,500 --> 00:53:58,000
any remarks from the manager?

1061
00:53:58,100 --> 00:54:00,100
Nope. Just open here. Discussion, right?

1062
00:54:00,100 --> 00:54:01,500
You wanna take it from here? Yeah,

1063
00:54:01,700 --> 00:54:04,734
- So I'll, I'll be quick on this since I know a lot

1064
00:54:04,734 --> 00:54:06,467
of people don't really care about tiny homes in a backyard.

1065
00:54:07,333 --> 00:54:10,000
So an accessory dwelling unit as we define it right now,

1066
00:54:10,433 --> 00:54:14,634
is authorized to house people that are related by blood

1067
00:54:14,734 --> 00:54:18,567
or marriage or housekeeper or horticultural services.

1068
00:54:19,100 --> 00:54:21,767
And so my proposed change to the definition is

1069
00:54:21,767 --> 00:54:23,100
to remove those restrictions

1070
00:54:23,133 --> 00:54:26,266
and allow anybody to reside in an accessory dwelling unit.

1071
00:54:26,266 --> 00:54:28,700
Because I don't think it is our role to say

1072
00:54:28,867 --> 00:54:31,233
who can reside in what type of construction.

1073
00:54:31,567 --> 00:54:35,533
And that I have a recommended definition, which attached

1074
00:54:35,533 --> 00:54:38,100
with it is visual diagrams

1075
00:54:38,100 --> 00:54:40,033
that point out the different types

1076
00:54:40,033 --> 00:54:41,100
of accessory dwelling units.

1077
00:54:41,333 --> 00:54:42,567
So you don't have to just sit here

1078
00:54:42,567 --> 00:54:44,634
and read through our boring code, you can look at it

1079
00:54:44,634 --> 00:54:46,700
and say, oh, this is what an A DU is.

1080
00:54:47,634 --> 00:54:50,033
And so that is why I'm proposing a definition change.

1081
00:54:50,700 --> 00:54:53,567
I don't know the right mechanism, like if we need

1082
00:54:53,567 --> 00:54:56,066
to send this to the planning commission for them to review

1083
00:54:56,100 --> 00:54:58,033
and then that to come back to us, so be it.

1084
00:54:58,667 --> 00:55:01,367
But yeah, I'm, that's all I got.

1085
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:04,300
- I was gonna say we, we could field

1086
00:55:04,300 --> 00:55:05,500
that question with the manager.

1087
00:55:05,700 --> 00:55:08,133
I, I recall from our discussion back in,

1088
00:55:09,834 --> 00:55:11,300
I think it was last fall,

1089
00:55:11,467 --> 00:55:16,033
there was a discussion about taking the matter of ADU

1090
00:55:16,300 --> 00:55:17,300
to the planning commission.

1091
00:55:17,467 --> 00:55:20,467
So I guess that would be something for the manager

1092
00:55:20,734 --> 00:55:25,133
and the planning and Zoning director to look at

1093
00:55:25,133 --> 00:55:27,100
and come back to the board with, you know,

1094
00:55:27,433 --> 00:55:28,934
what options we would have.

1095
00:55:29,500 --> 00:55:31,033
There is no proposed action

1096
00:55:31,033 --> 00:55:33,266
and I just as simply a discussion, but Okay.

1097
00:55:34,700 --> 00:55:35,867
- I believe - Kim has a Okay.

1098
00:55:35,900 --> 00:55:37,533
Looks I will recognize the planning

1099
00:55:37,533 --> 00:55:38,734
and Zoning director. Thank

1100
00:55:38,734 --> 00:55:39,734
- You.

1101
00:55:39,734 --> 00:55:42,000
If you, you do send that to the planning commission,

1102
00:55:42,166 --> 00:55:44,100
I'd ask if you could just clarify a little bit,

1103
00:55:44,133 --> 00:55:45,834
are you only looking at the definition?

1104
00:55:46,166 --> 00:55:48,333
Are you looking at the districts in which they're allowed

1105
00:55:48,367 --> 00:55:50,700
or looking at what type of ADUs?

1106
00:55:50,834 --> 00:55:53,000
Like just narrow it for us.

1107
00:55:53,133 --> 00:55:56,533
- Yeah, I was gonna say actually, so in my attachments,

1108
00:55:57,667 --> 00:55:59,300
I'll pulling it up.

1109
00:55:59,300 --> 00:56:04,066
Sorry, one second. So all the way down.

1110
00:56:04,333 --> 00:56:07,033
So the attachment that I have pulls the definition

1111
00:56:07,533 --> 00:56:09,066
directly from the Borough of Phoenixville,

1112
00:56:09,066 --> 00:56:11,000
which is a municipality in Chester County.

1113
00:56:11,233 --> 00:56:14,066
And all I would be asking for is for us

1114
00:56:14,133 --> 00:56:16,867
to change the definition of our accessory dwelling units

1115
00:56:17,166 --> 00:56:21,767
to match that with the caveat

1116
00:56:22,033 --> 00:56:24,133
where it says single family dwelling,

1117
00:56:24,367 --> 00:56:26,500
that it just says principal dwelling instead

1118
00:56:26,500 --> 00:56:27,934
of principal single family dwelling.

1119
00:56:27,934 --> 00:56:30,000
Because that's attaching an A DU to a specific type.

1120
00:56:30,567 --> 00:56:33,266
And you know, again, we're just trying

1121
00:56:33,266 --> 00:56:35,700
to broaden the definition and that,

1122
00:56:35,734 --> 00:56:38,467
or I say we, I am trying to broaden the definition

1123
00:56:38,567 --> 00:56:40,033
and I believe that that is in the best interest

1124
00:56:40,033 --> 00:56:42,767
of individual property owners and the Township at large.

1125
00:56:43,066 --> 00:56:46,066
So just the definition for now is what I'm asking

1126
00:56:46,100 --> 00:56:50,233
for. Does that clarify it?

1127
00:56:51,100 --> 00:56:53,066
- Yeah. And then a along with that,

1128
00:56:54,934 --> 00:56:56,333
we've talked about this a couple times,

1129
00:56:56,667 --> 00:56:58,734
so intents been discussed,

1130
00:57:00,066 --> 00:57:03,333
but it does help if we have some kind of nexus

1131
00:57:04,100 --> 00:57:06,033
if it does go back to the planning commission

1132
00:57:06,033 --> 00:57:07,934
so we know kind of more about

1133
00:57:07,934 --> 00:57:09,000
what problem we're trying to solve.

1134
00:57:09,333 --> 00:57:11,500
- Hmm. Ah yes. The problem that we're trying to solve is

1135
00:57:11,500 --> 00:57:13,066
that by defining an A DU

1136
00:57:13,367 --> 00:57:15,000
and saying that only people that are married

1137
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:17,100
or related to you by blood can live in it

1138
00:57:17,166 --> 00:57:18,634
and only your housekeeper

1139
00:57:18,667 --> 00:57:20,000
and gardener can live in it,

1140
00:57:20,500 --> 00:57:23,266
we're effectively limiting the supply to be non-existent

1141
00:57:23,934 --> 00:57:26,700
because who has a gardener living with them these days?

1142
00:57:26,700 --> 00:57:27,834
This is not the 1940s.

1143
00:57:28,734 --> 00:57:30,300
And also like we can

1144
00:57:31,066 --> 00:57:33,467
accessory dwelling units are often called in-law suites,

1145
00:57:34,100 --> 00:57:37,700
but we're really only, as we define it, we are only saying

1146
00:57:37,700 --> 00:57:39,700
that that is, that is the only acceptable use.

1147
00:57:40,133 --> 00:57:43,734
And so what the we'll say intent is, is

1148
00:57:43,734 --> 00:57:46,500
to expand individual property rights here

1149
00:57:46,567 --> 00:57:48,634
and to allow property owners to do

1150
00:57:48,734 --> 00:57:50,066
what they want with their property.

1151
00:57:51,233 --> 00:57:54,000
I'm not at this time making a recommendation

1152
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:56,066
that we expand the districts that they're permitted in

1153
00:57:56,066 --> 00:57:59,000
because I understand that there are ongoing concerns about,

1154
00:57:59,033 --> 00:58:01,000
we'll say like water and sewage capacity.

1155
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:03,333
And so as those conversations develop,

1156
00:58:04,033 --> 00:58:06,300
then we can start having larger conversations about

1157
00:58:06,567 --> 00:58:09,000
what type of districts we want ADU to be in.

1158
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:11,100
Because right now accessory dwelling units are only

1159
00:58:11,100 --> 00:58:13,033
permitted outside of the regional growth boundary.

1160
00:58:13,033 --> 00:58:16,300
So if you take all of that into consideration right now,

1161
00:58:16,300 --> 00:58:19,233
accessory dwelling units are very, very, very, very,

1162
00:58:19,233 --> 00:58:21,467
very limited in their potential supply.

1163
00:58:22,066 --> 00:58:23,700
So this definition gets us

1164
00:58:23,734 --> 00:58:26,033
to potentially expand the housing supply at the,

1165
00:58:26,133 --> 00:58:28,700
at the margins, expand individual property rights

1166
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:30,700
and really just make this Township like less

1167
00:58:31,033 --> 00:58:33,033
restrictive for property owners.

1168
00:58:34,100 --> 00:58:36,533
- Okay. I believe they're allowed in the ttd. Yep.

1169
00:58:36,834 --> 00:58:38,500
At the moment. That's

1170
00:58:38,500 --> 00:58:39,500
- Right.

1171
00:58:39,500 --> 00:58:39,834
I always forget about that one. Sounds about

1172
00:58:39,834 --> 00:58:40,834
- Right.

1173
00:58:40,834 --> 00:58:43,100
And I believe that direction is a little bit broader. Okay.

1174
00:58:43,734 --> 00:58:45,066
So we could look at that. But I also

1175
00:58:45,834 --> 00:58:48,634
fear this not taking a no position.

1176
00:58:48,734 --> 00:58:53,033
Yeah. But looking for strong direction that this

1177
00:58:53,734 --> 00:58:56,100
could expand into a number of conversations.

1178
00:58:56,333 --> 00:58:59,033
Like off the bat you quickly get into the

1179
00:58:59,033 --> 00:59:00,066
short term rental discussion.

1180
00:59:00,100 --> 00:59:04,100
Oh yes. And then another one that's kind of been a long term

1181
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:09,333
kind for me, if you have a single family lot

1182
00:59:10,767 --> 00:59:13,100
that, so that matches our definition.

1183
00:59:13,100 --> 00:59:16,033
If you have an accessory dwelling unit, you somebody

1184
00:59:16,033 --> 00:59:17,066
that's related by blood

1185
00:59:17,233 --> 00:59:20,934
or somebody that is employed for something that is related

1186
00:59:20,934 --> 00:59:22,133
to maintaining the property.

1187
00:59:22,333 --> 00:59:24,767
Housekeeping, something about horticulture

1188
00:59:24,900 --> 00:59:26,133
and I think there was one other item

1189
00:59:26,133 --> 00:59:27,700
that was in our definition as well.

1190
00:59:27,700 --> 00:59:31,867
Which, which which makes sense when you introduce

1191
00:59:32,367 --> 00:59:34,634
a second family with

1192
00:59:34,634 --> 00:59:37,834
or without time limits, is that still single family?

1193
00:59:39,066 --> 00:59:42,634
But I also bring that up as a, it seems like it should be,

1194
00:59:43,133 --> 00:59:44,133
on one hand it's obvious.

1195
00:59:44,166 --> 00:59:45,634
On the other hand, if you look at

1196
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:48,767
American Planning Association has some guidance on it.

1197
00:59:48,767 --> 00:59:50,834
There's been national legislation on it.

1198
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:54,066
There's been a a RP has mentioned a number of things on it.

1199
00:59:54,667 --> 00:59:56,734
The line is starting to get blurred,

1200
00:59:57,033 --> 00:59:58,734
but that moves the conversation.

1201
00:59:58,867 --> 01:00:00,367
I'm just kind of predicting how this will go. Yeah.

1202
01:00:01,667 --> 01:00:04,634
That moves that conversation a little bit into,

1203
01:00:04,634 --> 01:00:08,634
if you buy into a neighborhood with an expectation, ah,

1204
01:00:08,867 --> 01:00:10,100
and then that change itself.

1205
01:00:10,333 --> 01:00:12,066
- And that's my, like I, I will always,

1206
01:00:12,133 --> 01:00:13,266
and this is not against you

1207
01:00:13,533 --> 01:00:17,133
'cause I know like I will never buy into that argument

1208
01:00:18,166 --> 01:00:20,100
because things change over time

1209
01:00:20,266 --> 01:00:21,767
and that's just how life works.

1210
01:00:22,934 --> 01:00:25,233
If you buy into a neighborhood, a neighborhood is going

1211
01:00:25,233 --> 01:00:27,634
to change as families move out, families move in,

1212
01:00:27,634 --> 01:00:28,934
people do home renovations,

1213
01:00:29,166 --> 01:00:31,066
the character is going to change over time.

1214
01:00:31,467 --> 01:00:33,033
And this is part of it.

1215
01:00:34,066 --> 01:00:35,867
And I would actually make the argument

1216
01:00:35,867 --> 01:00:38,567
that the economic realities of our circum, of our, well

1217
01:00:39,467 --> 01:00:40,767
the economic realities that a lot

1218
01:00:40,767 --> 01:00:43,066
of us face would necessitate us expanding the

1219
01:00:43,066 --> 01:00:44,066
potential housing options.

1220
01:00:44,433 --> 01:00:47,467
Which is why at this point I think just addressing the

1221
01:00:47,567 --> 01:00:50,000
familial aspect in the occupational aspect

1222
01:00:50,266 --> 01:00:51,533
is a starting point.

1223
01:00:52,567 --> 01:00:56,100
- Fair. And just along the lines of just looking for

1224
01:00:56,900 --> 01:00:59,000
additional guidance.

1225
01:00:59,133 --> 01:01:03,567
Yeah. So when I say, you know, you're buying in with

1226
01:01:03,567 --> 01:01:06,033
that expectation, sometimes in an Ordinance it'll say

1227
01:01:06,033 --> 01:01:09,066
something like, if a certain percentage Yeah.

1228
01:01:09,567 --> 01:01:11,767
Then that's only for existing established neighborhoods.

1229
01:01:13,934 --> 01:01:17,767
I think those are all, so it's, it's part of how, how broad

1230
01:01:17,900 --> 01:01:22,734
and I will leave that back to the board

1231
01:01:22,834 --> 01:01:23,867
and, and the manager.

1232
01:01:24,100 --> 01:01:26,700
But where we, as you know, we're looking at all

1233
01:01:26,700 --> 01:01:31,300
of the Ordinance and we just looked at data centers last

1234
01:01:31,300 --> 01:01:32,767
night that poked into a whole lot

1235
01:01:32,767 --> 01:01:34,000
of other parts of the code.

1236
01:01:34,467 --> 01:01:38,100
So very open to looking at whatever we're directed

1237
01:01:38,133 --> 01:01:39,000
to, to look at.

1238
01:01:39,266 --> 01:01:41,033
But I also see that quickly becoming

1239
01:01:41,100 --> 01:01:42,266
a very big conversation.

1240
01:01:42,467 --> 01:01:43,500
So any guidance

1241
01:01:43,500 --> 01:01:45,533
that you can give us upfront is what I'm looking for.

1242
01:01:45,734 --> 01:01:46,734
Yeah,

1243
01:01:47,100 --> 01:01:48,100
- I guess so.

1244
01:01:48,100 --> 01:01:49,634
You wanna see what Mr. Heller has to say

1245
01:01:50,100 --> 01:01:51,100
- And if I may,

1246
01:01:51,100 --> 01:01:53,333
and I think that's, you know, two different approaches

1247
01:01:53,333 --> 01:01:55,867
to the conversation and I appreciate the,

1248
01:01:55,900 --> 01:01:58,066
the small step in looking at okay,

1249
01:01:58,500 --> 01:02:01,367
do we expand out essentially who can occupy?

1250
01:02:01,367 --> 01:02:03,934
That's a great start. I have additionally,

1251
01:02:04,033 --> 01:02:05,333
I think there are six different things

1252
01:02:05,333 --> 01:02:08,834
that I've outlined in an email on things I would love

1253
01:02:08,834 --> 01:02:11,233
to see in the planning commission to address that.

1254
01:02:11,233 --> 01:02:13,467
Really, I think get to the point that you might be asking

1255
01:02:13,634 --> 01:02:14,834
for of what else

1256
01:02:14,834 --> 01:02:17,100
because you're beginning, while we're all connecting these

1257
01:02:17,066 --> 01:02:19,934
dots and these points, I don't know the best way

1258
01:02:19,934 --> 01:02:22,033
that staff would like me to convey these

1259
01:02:22,166 --> 01:02:23,834
or publicly have it.

1260
01:02:23,834 --> 01:02:26,266
Maybe tonight we just say this is the first step

1261
01:02:26,367 --> 01:02:30,634
and then the email or the recommendations are also reviewed.

1262
01:02:30,867 --> 01:02:33,300
I don't know what we do to maybe get this moved forward

1263
01:02:33,667 --> 01:02:36,333
to expand the conversation so we also don't lose momentum.

1264
01:02:36,567 --> 01:02:41,333
Yeah. On the big picture while we're focusing on, well

1265
01:02:41,333 --> 01:02:43,500
who should this really be applied to?

1266
01:02:43,934 --> 01:02:45,066
So I don't know, and I'm looking

1267
01:02:45,066 --> 01:02:47,066
for guidance from staff on the best way to proceed with

1268
01:02:47,066 --> 01:02:48,066
- That.

1269
01:02:48,066 --> 01:02:49,700
I, I can definitely share Mr.

1270
01:02:49,834 --> 01:02:53,500
Heller's thoughts with the email that he shared with myself

1271
01:02:53,567 --> 01:02:55,066
to, with Kim.

1272
01:02:56,333 --> 01:03:01,066
And then again if it's appropriate with the board,

1273
01:03:01,100 --> 01:03:03,100
if you're fine with the manager

1274
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:06,700
and Kim meeting with Trevor to maybe take this offline

1275
01:03:06,700 --> 01:03:11,467
and get a little bit more nuanced

1276
01:03:11,900 --> 01:03:13,533
to what they ask is Perfect.

1277
01:03:13,867 --> 01:03:15,333
- Good. Thank you. And I

1278
01:03:15,333 --> 01:03:16,734
- Trust and, and with you as well, Mr.

1279
01:03:16,734 --> 01:03:19,133
Heller, like we sure happy to any, any supervisor

1280
01:03:19,133 --> 01:03:20,767
that wishes to, to kind

1281
01:03:20,767 --> 01:03:22,567
of give us some input offline, I think Sure.

1282
01:03:22,767 --> 01:03:25,867
That would help myself and Kim to understand Yeah.

1283
01:03:26,133 --> 01:03:28,066
How we can keep it as focused as possible and,

1284
01:03:28,100 --> 01:03:31,367
and not go down all of those side roads.

1285
01:03:31,567 --> 01:03:32,634
- That's precisely it.

1286
01:03:32,634 --> 01:03:35,367
And I think this maybe sets up some guide rails. Yes.

1287
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:38,000
So we're not just looking at the very first step,

1288
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:40,066
but also what's, what's coming down the road

1289
01:03:40,066 --> 01:03:41,100
and what do we need to consider.

1290
01:03:41,467 --> 01:03:44,233
And I have a, I've always been a proponent

1291
01:03:44,233 --> 01:03:46,000
of you send these things to committee

1292
01:03:46,467 --> 01:03:48,266
so you send these things to the planning commission

1293
01:03:48,266 --> 01:03:51,133
to have the leadership there and the volunteers

1294
01:03:51,166 --> 01:03:53,233
and members really lean into this

1295
01:03:53,700 --> 01:03:55,700
and asking them to, to step into this.

1296
01:03:55,900 --> 01:03:57,533
So that's what I would like

1297
01:03:57,533 --> 01:03:58,634
to see is, you know, the next step.

1298
01:03:58,634 --> 01:03:59,734
And I'm, again, happy to meet

1299
01:03:59,734 --> 01:04:02,634
and provide additional context on the general

1300
01:04:02,634 --> 01:04:04,767
discussion with Mr. White and others. Perfect.

1301
01:04:05,634 --> 01:04:08,100
- Thank you. And thank you for allowing some input and

1302
01:04:08,333 --> 01:04:09,333
- Feedback.

1303
01:04:09,333 --> 01:04:11,700
Absolutely. I was gonna say, Trevor, you wanted

1304
01:04:11,700 --> 01:04:13,033
to ask any other board members

1305
01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:15,700
or even entertain any Public Comment? Yeah, I

1306
01:04:15,700 --> 01:04:18,133
- Was about to Public Comment on this is more than welcome.

1307
01:04:18,567 --> 01:04:20,467
I I love to hear about what folks have

1308
01:04:20,467 --> 01:04:21,700
to say about accessory dwelling units.

1309
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:24,100
'cause it's often a, we'll say like a hot button issue.

1310
01:04:24,367 --> 01:04:28,133
Yeah. So yeah, if anybody has anything to say about it,

1311
01:04:28,333 --> 01:04:29,467
I welcome it.

1312
01:04:29,467 --> 01:04:31,000
Even if the question is, what are you talking about?

1313
01:04:33,166 --> 01:04:35,100
- I'll let you, I'll let you pick if you, if you,

1314
01:04:35,100 --> 01:04:37,634
if you don't mind, you know, since it is your item Yeah.

1315
01:04:39,634 --> 01:04:42,000
Get, get a, get a little mini experience as the chair

1316
01:04:44,133 --> 01:04:45,533
- Mark Kunkel Ferguson Township.

1317
01:04:47,567 --> 01:04:51,333
You know, I appreciate the opportunity to have a discussion

1318
01:04:52,066 --> 01:04:53,767
about this topic.

1319
01:04:54,100 --> 01:04:56,467
I think that it is, it's probably timely,

1320
01:04:58,033 --> 01:05:00,567
but I think it's a solution in search

1321
01:05:00,567 --> 01:05:02,367
of a problem, to be honest with you.

1322
01:05:05,834 --> 01:05:07,734
Some questions that I'd be interested in knowing

1323
01:05:07,767 --> 01:05:09,467
what district Heller's questions are.

1324
01:05:09,500 --> 01:05:12,133
So the public has some direction on that.

1325
01:05:12,500 --> 01:05:14,834
That would be, you know, helpful I think.

1326
01:05:14,900 --> 01:05:17,100
So we're not covering a similar ground,

1327
01:05:17,133 --> 01:05:21,000
but the question I would have is

1328
01:05:22,133 --> 01:05:24,033
if this, if this is implemented,

1329
01:05:25,033 --> 01:05:26,934
will this override covenants

1330
01:05:27,467 --> 01:05:31,133
and homeowner association limitations, et cetera.

1331
01:05:31,867 --> 01:05:33,834
I mean those are, those are rights that

1332
01:05:34,333 --> 01:05:37,233
property owners have purchased their properties

1333
01:05:37,634 --> 01:05:39,000
under those assumptions.

1334
01:05:39,100 --> 01:05:41,734
So given the number

1335
01:05:41,734 --> 01:05:44,100
of homeowners associations we have in this Township

1336
01:05:45,066 --> 01:05:47,867
and certainly the number of de covenants

1337
01:05:47,867 --> 01:05:51,700
that I think people buy property under this is very gonna

1338
01:05:51,700 --> 01:05:55,567
limit the opportunity to do anything of this nature on,

1339
01:05:55,667 --> 01:05:58,266
on a lot of properties within the regional growth boundary.

1340
01:06:02,667 --> 01:06:03,867
Yeah, I think it was mentioned.

1341
01:06:03,867 --> 01:06:06,867
What concerns do does the Township have with regard to

1342
01:06:07,567 --> 01:06:08,734
capacity of our infrastructure?

1343
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:13,467
Sewer systems are set up based upon the density

1344
01:06:13,734 --> 01:06:16,333
that we're anticipating in Zoning districts.

1345
01:06:17,233 --> 01:06:19,066
Adding additional capacity

1346
01:06:20,367 --> 01:06:22,467
is not probably a, an option.

1347
01:06:22,934 --> 01:06:27,100
And adding additional load to those systems

1348
01:06:28,533 --> 01:06:29,634
probably would be on wise.

1349
01:06:32,100 --> 01:06:35,100
Another question would be, has anybody consulted

1350
01:06:35,100 --> 01:06:38,000
with the realtors on what this does to property values?

1351
01:06:39,333 --> 01:06:42,533
If I purchased a, a home in a neighborhood

1352
01:06:42,533 --> 01:06:43,567
that was single family

1353
01:06:43,867 --> 01:06:47,233
and you know, I've, it's the largest investment of my life.

1354
01:06:48,333 --> 01:06:51,834
Having a, a dwelling built

1355
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:55,767
or added to another structure adjacent to my property.

1356
01:06:56,333 --> 01:06:59,233
Well, what is the impact on, on me

1357
01:06:59,900 --> 01:07:03,300
and what is the value of my property based upon that,

1358
01:07:03,300 --> 01:07:05,066
that second dwelling being installed.

1359
01:07:06,033 --> 01:07:09,867
And finally, I think it'd be informative to find out

1360
01:07:09,867 --> 01:07:11,634
what other Big 10 schools are doing.

1361
01:07:13,667 --> 01:07:15,634
You know, we're, we're not phoenixville.

1362
01:07:17,033 --> 01:07:21,100
We've got a very unique situation here in Happy Valley with

1363
01:07:22,133 --> 01:07:24,100
sporting events and cultural events,

1364
01:07:25,533 --> 01:07:28,700
student housing issues, et cetera.

1365
01:07:28,900 --> 01:07:33,700
And so, Airbnbs, short term rentals, et cetera,

1366
01:07:33,700 --> 01:07:35,367
these are all problems that

1367
01:07:36,066 --> 01:07:38,533
I think our municipalities in the Centre Region are

1368
01:07:38,567 --> 01:07:40,100
wrestling with right now.

1369
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:43,767
To add to that problem, this may be,

1370
01:07:43,767 --> 01:07:47,133
there may be unintended consequences to this type

1371
01:07:47,133 --> 01:07:48,634
of initiative.

1372
01:07:49,066 --> 01:07:51,066
So just questions at this point in time.

1373
01:07:51,233 --> 01:07:53,100
But I look forward to opportunity

1374
01:07:53,100 --> 01:07:54,734
to have the planning Commission really

1375
01:07:55,467 --> 01:07:58,734
delve into this a lot deeper and,

1376
01:07:59,100 --> 01:08:02,367
and be careful of what actions are taken

1377
01:08:02,634 --> 01:08:05,000
and what the unintended consequences might be.

1378
01:08:07,133 --> 01:08:11,133
Thank you, mark. Yes, Mr. Heller,

1379
01:08:11,133 --> 01:08:12,133
- Or to Mr.

1380
01:08:12,133 --> 01:08:13,000
Kunkel point, I'm happy

1381
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:17,000
to have the email I sent entered into the record for future,

1382
01:08:17,133 --> 01:08:18,867
so at least the, the public can see.

1383
01:08:19,066 --> 01:08:20,266
Yeah, those comments too. So

1384
01:08:20,266 --> 01:08:22,700
- We, we will attach that when it comes time for,

1385
01:08:22,700 --> 01:08:24,066
thank it, to go in front of planning.

1386
01:08:24,100 --> 01:08:27,233
I, I will caution the board that I prefer to work

1387
01:08:27,233 --> 01:08:28,533
through the data center Ordinance

1388
01:08:28,533 --> 01:08:29,867
that we're nearing the end first

1389
01:08:29,934 --> 01:08:33,934
before we, yeah, that's lump another

1390
01:08:34,900 --> 01:08:38,233
topic that is going to take a considerable amount

1391
01:08:38,233 --> 01:08:41,100
of staff time and planning commissioned input.

1392
01:08:41,634 --> 01:08:43,000
- Okay. I'm fine with that, Mr. Chair.

1393
01:08:43,433 --> 01:08:45,934
- Yeah, I, I'm, I'm good with that as well.

1394
01:08:46,100 --> 01:08:49,100
And I, I was actually looking back, I, we did discuss,

1395
01:08:49,333 --> 01:08:52,734
I believe it was your email as well as a email

1396
01:08:52,734 --> 01:08:53,934
that came forward from Ms.

1397
01:08:54,300 --> 01:08:58,033
Stephens on August 5th, 2025 on this matter.

1398
01:08:58,033 --> 01:09:02,300
And there was even a, an email when Mr. White was running

1399
01:09:02,367 --> 01:09:06,333
for office that was entered into the record as well when he

1400
01:09:07,066 --> 01:09:08,700
publicly participated in that discussion.

1401
01:09:08,734 --> 01:09:10,500
So yeah, we can

1402
01:09:11,066 --> 01:09:12,266
- Make that part of the board packet.

1403
01:09:12,433 --> 01:09:14,000
- Yeah, you bring that back to the board packet

1404
01:09:14,033 --> 01:09:15,634
or just to give people, you know,

1405
01:09:16,033 --> 01:09:17,834
reference point if you wanted to kind of see

1406
01:09:17,867 --> 01:09:20,867
how the discussion of ADUs has evolved in Township.

1407
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:24,734
So Mr. Patterson online.

1408
01:09:26,834 --> 01:09:28,767
- Yeah, I just, just one comment in all this.

1409
01:09:29,266 --> 01:09:31,867
I think we can walk and chew gum at the same time here.

1410
01:09:32,867 --> 01:09:35,533
I know I've been asking, I think,

1411
01:09:35,533 --> 01:09:39,867
regularly in these meetings are we, you know, do we have

1412
01:09:42,133 --> 01:09:45,233
any items to, you know, update in our, in our Ordinance?

1413
01:09:45,500 --> 01:09:48,934
And, and I think the response was regularly, like

1414
01:09:49,500 --> 01:09:51,000
we may have a few coming soon

1415
01:09:51,266 --> 01:09:53,333
and we haven't seen anything since last year.

1416
01:09:53,734 --> 01:09:55,634
So I think that's, that's my ask is

1417
01:09:55,634 --> 01:09:57,934
that like just doing one thing,

1418
01:09:57,934 --> 01:10:00,100
which is the data center Ordinance is not enough folks.

1419
01:10:00,233 --> 01:10:03,300
We, we really, my ask is that we, we, you know, the three

1420
01:10:03,300 --> 01:10:05,634
or four or five items that we've been working on for now

1421
01:10:05,634 --> 01:10:07,033
for the last year, let's,

1422
01:10:07,033 --> 01:10:08,066
let's get 'em all out there please.

1423
01:10:08,066 --> 01:10:11,333
So that we can, you know, adjust those things that are,

1424
01:10:11,333 --> 01:10:13,300
that are not, you know, fully there for us over.

1425
01:10:14,500 --> 01:10:17,867
- And, and if I may, Kim

1426
01:10:17,867 --> 01:10:20,233
and her staff are going through all of the Zoning

1427
01:10:20,233 --> 01:10:21,367
and Aldo ordinances.

1428
01:10:22,467 --> 01:10:25,066
She's been keeping me apprised that she's going

1429
01:10:25,066 --> 01:10:26,834
through the all of the codes

1430
01:10:27,266 --> 01:10:30,300
and slowly working through the edits

1431
01:10:30,300 --> 01:10:31,367
that she can at her level.

1432
01:10:32,166 --> 01:10:33,634
So that is in progress.

1433
01:10:35,333 --> 01:10:37,100
- Okay. - I was gonna say,

1434
01:10:37,100 --> 01:10:38,033
you wanna continue Public Comment?

1435
01:10:38,533 --> 01:10:38,767
- Absolutely.

1436
01:10:45,667 --> 01:10:47,767
- Hi everyone. Thank you for the time.

1437
01:10:47,867 --> 01:10:50,500
Ben Lambert, Ferguson Township, I'm out on Gates by Road.

1438
01:10:50,533 --> 01:10:52,467
So I think we have two issues here

1439
01:10:52,467 --> 01:10:54,367
and I don't wanna necessarily conflate them,

1440
01:10:55,066 --> 01:10:56,734
although they certainly come together.

1441
01:10:57,533 --> 01:11:01,467
One is a basic equality around the definition of

1442
01:11:01,467 --> 01:11:03,300
who can be involved in these dwellings.

1443
01:11:03,900 --> 01:11:07,867
In my hearing of the current statute, it could be read

1444
01:11:07,867 --> 01:11:08,867
as discriminatory.

1445
01:11:09,066 --> 01:11:13,000
And I think that's one thing Mr. White is looking at there.

1446
01:11:13,734 --> 01:11:16,367
Secondly, with PA House Bill 2186

1447
01:11:17,333 --> 01:11:20,867
around accessory dwellings, there is no point on moving

1448
01:11:20,867 --> 01:11:23,500
that in a really meaningful way other than planning

1449
01:11:23,900 --> 01:11:25,934
and anticipating what may come down.

1450
01:11:26,066 --> 01:11:28,033
Because otherwise you're legislating something

1451
01:11:28,033 --> 01:11:30,033
that will be overridden based, you know,

1452
01:11:30,500 --> 01:11:33,367
to a certain extent based on the Commonwealth 2186.

1453
01:11:33,900 --> 01:11:36,767
So as you all, maybe we want to get this in commission,

1454
01:11:36,767 --> 01:11:39,000
maybe you want to spend time on it, that's awesome.

1455
01:11:39,634 --> 01:11:41,100
Be smart about it. There's a lot

1456
01:11:41,100 --> 01:11:43,000
of other things you could be spending your time on.

1457
01:11:43,066 --> 01:11:46,000
Understanding that if 2186 comes through

1458
01:11:46,166 --> 01:11:49,867
and changes the accessory to dwelling statutes statewide,

1459
01:11:50,166 --> 01:11:52,233
you've invested a lot of money into something

1460
01:11:52,233 --> 01:11:54,367
that is ultimately not fruitful.

1461
01:11:54,634 --> 01:11:57,533
So to Mr. White's point, I think there is a reasonable

1462
01:11:58,266 --> 01:12:00,700
argument to talk about the equality, equality

1463
01:12:00,734 --> 01:12:02,500
of the statement of who may be in

1464
01:12:03,166 --> 01:12:07,066
housed in an accessory dwelling without ultimately affecting

1465
01:12:07,133 --> 01:12:10,567
overall Ferguson Township planning and deployment.

1466
01:12:10,567 --> 01:12:12,867
Understanding I have a larger property,

1467
01:12:13,300 --> 01:12:17,100
I could very easily deploy a very large accessory dwelling,

1468
01:12:17,033 --> 01:12:21,066
having just worked through other things with Kimberly,

1469
01:12:21,934 --> 01:12:23,266
you know, on a garage and barn.

1470
01:12:23,333 --> 01:12:26,767
So understanding that, having just gone through it,

1471
01:12:26,834 --> 01:12:29,000
I would just advise a little bit of caution about the time

1472
01:12:29,367 --> 01:12:32,533
invested versus what may come through with how sub 2186.

1473
01:12:32,834 --> 01:12:33,834
That's it. Thank you.

1474
01:12:34,634 --> 01:12:36,834
- Yeah, sorry. Absolutely.

1475
01:12:37,100 --> 01:12:38,934
Do you have the lovely like that, that's

1476
01:12:38,934 --> 01:12:40,767
that lovely little like a-frame that you got built

1477
01:12:41,367 --> 01:12:43,233
recently off of Old Gates?

1478
01:12:43,333 --> 01:12:45,700
Yeah. Great work on that. It's gorgeous. I

1479
01:12:45,700 --> 01:12:46,700
- Couldn't do that very easily.

1480
01:12:46,734 --> 01:12:49,500
Turn that into a large PDUI had spent a lot of time

1481
01:12:49,500 --> 01:12:51,000
with Zoning and planning.

1482
01:12:51,166 --> 01:12:53,367
They were lovely. It's difficult. Yeah.

1483
01:12:53,634 --> 01:12:57,700
But that is something I very much could have delved into

1484
01:12:57,700 --> 01:13:00,100
and there were certainly very valid concerns.

1485
01:13:00,634 --> 01:13:04,066
I have other concerns about my Zoning in the area along

1486
01:13:04,066 --> 01:13:06,033
that, so you probably hear from me in the future

1487
01:13:06,100 --> 01:13:10,100
around what's going on on old gates, et cetera.

1488
01:13:10,100 --> 01:13:13,500
But you know, to the point of just having experienced it,

1489
01:13:13,900 --> 01:13:16,367
there's an equality issue there based on definition.

1490
01:13:16,567 --> 01:13:19,767
And then there's a town county planning understanding

1491
01:13:19,867 --> 01:13:20,867
statewide changes

1492
01:13:21,066 --> 01:13:24,367
that I think context contextualizing helps. Yeah,

1493
01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:26,000
- Absolutely.

1494
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:26,100
Thank you so much.

1495
01:13:27,834 --> 01:13:30,734
- Yes, Mr. Heller. - Shout out to staff again.

1496
01:13:30,767 --> 01:13:32,233
I like that in the record. They were lovely.

1497
01:13:33,033 --> 01:13:34,867
That, I think that's a wonderful quote Yes.

1498
01:13:34,867 --> 01:13:38,333
From the evening. So thank you to Pat. Yep. Thank you.

1499
01:13:38,333 --> 01:13:39,333
Great.

1500
01:13:40,667 --> 01:13:43,500
- And yeah, thank you for the heads up on that house Bill.

1501
01:13:43,500 --> 01:13:45,333
Un unfortunately Mr. White, even

1502
01:13:45,333 --> 01:13:48,000
before my time I've seen this board want

1503
01:13:48,000 --> 01:13:50,266
to bring something forward and then the state

1504
01:13:50,533 --> 01:13:52,066
legislature stifle

1505
01:13:53,100 --> 01:13:55,834
- Or - Change up plans that we've had

1506
01:13:55,834 --> 01:13:57,066
to put things on pause.

1507
01:13:57,233 --> 01:13:59,533
So, and I have been definitely something to keep in mind.

1508
01:14:00,100 --> 01:14:02,934
- I have been expressing support for HB 2 180 6.

1509
01:14:05,000 --> 01:14:07,066
I think it's a, well if, if we're thinking of the same one

1510
01:14:07,066 --> 01:14:08,500
where it's permitted by right.

1511
01:14:08,500 --> 01:14:11,700
And all. Yeah. Where all single family homes are permitted.

1512
01:14:11,700 --> 01:14:13,133
Yeah. That's a great house bill.

1513
01:14:15,033 --> 01:14:16,634
Yeah, I'll, I'll just leave it at that. Okay.

1514
01:14:18,033 --> 01:14:20,333
- Just wanna see if we have anyone other Public Comment,

1515
01:14:20,567 --> 01:14:22,000
either in the room or online.

1516
01:14:23,767 --> 01:14:25,033
Otherwise if, oh

1517
01:14:33,433 --> 01:14:34,433
- Hi, I am Renee White.

1518
01:14:34,433 --> 01:14:35,567
I live in Ferguson Township.

1519
01:14:36,500 --> 01:14:39,500
I just wanna point out that I think the main issue right now

1520
01:14:39,500 --> 01:14:41,767
that we need to focus on is that this language is super,

1521
01:14:41,867 --> 01:14:43,033
super antiquated.

1522
01:14:43,433 --> 01:14:46,533
Even hearing it read out loud, it just reminds me

1523
01:14:46,533 --> 01:14:48,033
of Jim Crow era language

1524
01:14:48,634 --> 01:14:51,100
and we just need to do away with that entirely.

1525
01:14:51,834 --> 01:14:56,000
So starting fresh with ADUs, please take

1526
01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:57,367
that into consideration when

1527
01:14:57,367 --> 01:14:58,467
you're thinking about all of this.

1528
01:15:01,300 --> 01:15:03,233
- Thank you. Anyone else in the room?

1529
01:15:06,133 --> 01:15:08,567
Now I was gonna say Trevor, wanna, I was gonna say,

1530
01:15:08,700 --> 01:15:09,734
I think staff's got everything.

1531
01:15:09,834 --> 01:15:12,867
We can wrap this up. Move on to the next item. Yeah.

1532
01:15:13,133 --> 01:15:14,767
Thank everyone for their patience.

1533
01:15:14,867 --> 01:15:17,133
I know we had a bunch of people here

1534
01:15:17,166 --> 01:15:20,233
to speak on everything tonight, so trying

1535
01:15:20,233 --> 01:15:21,634
to move along as quickly as we can.

1536
01:15:23,033 --> 01:15:26,100
Next step will be a board member discussion request on the

1537
01:15:26,133 --> 01:15:30,066
automatic license plate reader A LPR restrictions.

1538
01:15:30,834 --> 01:15:33,066
And I was gonna say, if the manager has nothing,

1539
01:15:33,767 --> 01:15:35,333
this one will also be orders.

1540
01:15:35,500 --> 01:15:36,500
Mr. White.

1541
01:15:37,567 --> 01:15:39,300
- Okay. Yeah. So I'll start.

1542
01:15:39,333 --> 01:15:41,066
So for those of you who don't know me, I'll,

1543
01:15:41,133 --> 01:15:43,567
right now I'm going through my master's degree program

1544
01:15:43,834 --> 01:15:46,000
for public policy and I've been having

1545
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:47,500
to read this lovely textbook.

1546
01:15:48,066 --> 01:15:51,066
And so I wanted to start off with a quick quote

1547
01:15:52,467 --> 01:15:55,233
and talk about some of the, we'll say like political culture

1548
01:15:55,767 --> 01:15:57,100
that has been manifested here.

1549
01:15:57,367 --> 01:15:59,567
And so one

1550
01:15:59,567 --> 01:16:03,033
of the political scientists out wide outlay

1551
01:16:03,900 --> 01:16:05,066
outline three different types

1552
01:16:05,100 --> 01:16:07,000
of political cultures within the United States.

1553
01:16:08,333 --> 01:16:11,100
Individualistic, moralistic, and traditionalistic.

1554
01:16:12,100 --> 01:16:15,100
Individualistic political culture emphasizes private

1555
01:16:15,033 --> 01:16:18,533
concerns and views government as a utilitarian device to be,

1556
01:16:19,066 --> 01:16:21,734
to be used to accomplish what the people want.

1557
01:16:22,500 --> 01:16:25,500
The traditionalist political culture takes a paternalistic

1558
01:16:25,500 --> 01:16:27,066
and elitist view of government

1559
01:16:27,133 --> 01:16:30,033
and favors its use to maintain the existing social order.

1560
01:16:30,533 --> 01:16:32,934
Real political power centers in a small segment

1561
01:16:32,934 --> 01:16:35,000
of the population and most are expected

1562
01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:37,000
to be relatively inactive in politics.

1563
01:16:37,367 --> 01:16:40,834
And then third, we have the moralistic political culture,

1564
01:16:41,000 --> 01:16:42,634
which views government as a mechanism

1565
01:16:42,667 --> 01:16:44,033
for advancing the public interest.

1566
01:16:44,033 --> 01:16:46,367
Government service is considered public service,

1567
01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:49,467
more governmental intervention in the economy is accepted

1568
01:16:49,667 --> 01:16:52,233
and there is much public concern about policy issues.

1569
01:16:52,767 --> 01:16:55,033
I wanted to start that off because I see a room full

1570
01:16:55,033 --> 01:16:56,734
of people here tonight and I want

1571
01:16:56,734 --> 01:16:59,333
to help cultivate this moralistic political culture.

1572
01:17:00,100 --> 01:17:02,066
We have people here who have,

1573
01:17:02,867 --> 01:17:05,533
who are very interested in the direction of the policies

1574
01:17:05,533 --> 01:17:09,266
that we set forth, which is why I started the A LPR

1575
01:17:10,033 --> 01:17:12,033
draft Ordinance as it is right now.

1576
01:17:12,133 --> 01:17:15,066
It would ban all automated license plate readers.

1577
01:17:15,033 --> 01:17:19,567
Now that definition is set forth by the, by the A CLU

1578
01:17:20,700 --> 01:17:24,533
and obviously that definition would contain innocuous uses

1579
01:17:24,567 --> 01:17:26,266
like a parking garage.

1580
01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:30,533
A parking garage uses an automated license plate reader like

1581
01:17:30,533 --> 01:17:32,000
at Penn State to let you in.

1582
01:17:33,000 --> 01:17:35,767
A lot of our police vehicles use automated license plate

1583
01:17:35,767 --> 01:17:37,867
readers to, well,

1584
01:17:37,900 --> 01:17:39,300
to read your license plate when they pull

1585
01:17:39,300 --> 01:17:40,467
you over and check your registration.

1586
01:17:41,300 --> 01:17:43,333
There are more innocuous uses.

1587
01:17:43,734 --> 01:17:46,300
And I'm a little upset, Thomas, you stole my thunder.

1588
01:17:47,266 --> 01:17:49,333
Because I do genuinely believe

1589
01:17:49,333 --> 01:17:51,033
that these private companies are

1590
01:17:51,033 --> 01:17:52,033
violating our fourth amendment.

1591
01:17:52,100 --> 01:17:53,634
And not only do I believe it,

1592
01:17:53,634 --> 01:17:56,066
but there was a recent Supreme Court case this year

1593
01:17:56,300 --> 01:18:00,066
that if you just simply change the word from cell signal

1594
01:18:00,333 --> 01:18:02,266
location information to car

1595
01:18:02,266 --> 01:18:06,100
and license plate, it is the exact same thing when you are

1596
01:18:06,300 --> 01:18:07,533
geofencing an area.

1597
01:18:08,133 --> 01:18:11,734
Yeah. And then taking like, well, taking notes of

1598
01:18:11,734 --> 01:18:13,467
who enters, who exits at what time.

1599
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:16,133
The Supreme Court just ruled that for cell phones,

1600
01:18:16,333 --> 01:18:17,467
you need a warrant to do that.

1601
01:18:17,467 --> 01:18:19,066
That is a search that needs a warrant.

1602
01:18:20,166 --> 01:18:23,567
Flank, axon, Motorola, Leonardo, whatever.

1603
01:18:24,033 --> 01:18:26,934
Their density can be placed in such a way that

1604
01:18:26,934 --> 01:18:30,233
that technology mimics GPS location tracking,

1605
01:18:30,667 --> 01:18:32,367
which again requires a warrant.

1606
01:18:32,867 --> 01:18:36,233
But these entities, you do not need a warrant to access.

1607
01:18:36,634 --> 01:18:40,300
And therefore we have a duty to well take action

1608
01:18:41,467 --> 01:18:44,867
if this Ordinance is not within our authority to enact.

1609
01:18:45,133 --> 01:18:47,333
There are other mechanisms that we can pursue.

1610
01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:50,467
Those other mechanisms would be more expensive

1611
01:18:50,867 --> 01:18:52,567
and would be, we'll say more.

1612
01:18:53,066 --> 01:18:56,533
Mm. It it could, it could go off the rails really fast.

1613
01:18:57,000 --> 01:18:59,000
That's why I wanted to start here with this Ordinance

1614
01:18:59,000 --> 01:19:01,500
because I genuinely believe that we have a duty

1615
01:19:02,033 --> 01:19:04,834
to protect our citizens, our residents,

1616
01:19:05,333 --> 01:19:06,333
and not even just our resident,

1617
01:19:06,333 --> 01:19:08,300
anybody who's just like driving through our Township.

1618
01:19:09,066 --> 01:19:11,934
Because right now these SWAT cameras have been placed in

1619
01:19:11,934 --> 01:19:14,233
such a density that you cannot get onto campus

1620
01:19:14,900 --> 01:19:16,100
without getting tagged by them.

1621
01:19:16,700 --> 01:19:18,033
You cannot opt out.

1622
01:19:18,500 --> 01:19:21,066
And that is not something we want for people just passing

1623
01:19:21,066 --> 01:19:22,100
through our municipality

1624
01:19:23,033 --> 01:19:24,634
or people that live in our municipality

1625
01:19:24,634 --> 01:19:25,834
that have to commute to the campus.

1626
01:19:26,233 --> 01:19:27,834
You are getting put in a database.

1627
01:19:28,133 --> 01:19:31,033
You do not have an option to opt out. It's that simple.

1628
01:19:31,867 --> 01:19:35,033
I think that we in Ferguson have a duty to ban these.

1629
01:19:36,066 --> 01:19:38,033
I don't know if this is the right path,

1630
01:19:38,233 --> 01:19:39,734
but I'm, I wanna hear from the

1631
01:19:39,734 --> 01:19:40,934
public, I want to hear from y'all.

1632
01:19:40,934 --> 01:19:42,767
I wanna hear from staff. I wanna have this discussion

1633
01:19:42,767 --> 01:19:45,000
because this has become a very hot button issue

1634
01:19:45,467 --> 01:19:47,066
and rightfully so

1635
01:19:47,066 --> 01:19:48,867
because we all know in our gut that this is wrong.

1636
01:19:49,100 --> 01:19:50,233
So I'll leave it at that.

1637
01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:54,333
If staff have any inputs, I would love to hear from that.

1638
01:19:54,433 --> 01:19:58,533
Like if there's any updates from the solicitor, all that.

1639
01:19:59,000 --> 01:20:04,000
So yes, I'll recognize the manager. Thank you, Mr.

1640
01:20:04,033 --> 01:20:07,000
Chair. Just from our limited research,

1641
01:20:07,133 --> 01:20:10,767
- I don't believe the Township is, has the authority to

1642
01:20:12,133 --> 01:20:14,100
enact an Ordinance spanning it.

1643
01:20:14,734 --> 01:20:18,100
What the Township can do at the municipal level

1644
01:20:18,634 --> 01:20:22,000
is not permit the uses of flock cameras

1645
01:20:22,133 --> 01:20:24,834
or anything else used by the municipality.

1646
01:20:25,133 --> 01:20:28,033
So if the board wants to

1647
01:20:31,100 --> 01:20:32,266
set a resolution

1648
01:20:32,667 --> 01:20:37,100
or just clearly tell staff that we will not consider any

1649
01:20:37,233 --> 01:20:41,567
of these types of uses that is up to the statute.

1650
01:20:41,734 --> 01:20:46,700
But the solicitor, my initial just research is

1651
01:20:46,700 --> 01:20:47,934
that we can't do an Ordinance

1652
01:20:47,934 --> 01:20:49,467
to prohibit it on private property.

1653
01:20:50,533 --> 01:20:54,367
- Okay. So that leads us to the second option, which is

1654
01:20:54,367 --> 01:20:55,700
that under the home rule charter,

1655
01:20:55,700 --> 01:20:58,100
in the second class municipality code, we have the ability

1656
01:20:58,100 --> 01:20:59,333
to sue and be sued.

1657
01:21:00,567 --> 01:21:02,066
I am making the argument

1658
01:21:02,333 --> 01:21:05,467
that this entity is violating our fourth amendment rights

1659
01:21:07,066 --> 01:21:09,300
if a private entity, not the municipality.

1660
01:21:09,533 --> 01:21:11,066
'cause if I'm being honest, the municipality is not

1661
01:21:11,066 --> 01:21:13,100
what I'm, I'm not worried about y'all coming to us with a,

1662
01:21:13,100 --> 01:21:15,734
with a, with, with a line item that says, oh,

1663
01:21:15,734 --> 01:21:17,033
flock camera contract.

1664
01:21:17,033 --> 01:21:19,066
Like I, I feel like our staff is,

1665
01:21:19,166 --> 01:21:21,934
has enough situational awareness to, to read the,

1666
01:21:22,133 --> 01:21:23,700
the writing on the wall and see like

1667
01:21:23,700 --> 01:21:24,734
nobody really wants this.

1668
01:21:25,166 --> 01:21:28,934
My concern is that Penn State continues

1669
01:21:29,000 --> 01:21:32,467
to expand their flock cameras into, for example,

1670
01:21:32,734 --> 01:21:34,500
science Park, where they have a lot

1671
01:21:34,500 --> 01:21:36,266
of applied research laboratory facilities.

1672
01:21:36,266 --> 01:21:39,133
Mm. That would actually, like if I'm trying to like,

1673
01:21:40,033 --> 01:21:41,734
have a good faith approach

1674
01:21:41,834 --> 01:21:45,533
and assume that this is for public safety, then putting that

1675
01:21:45,533 --> 01:21:48,734
around a DOD affiliated research facility would probably be

1676
01:21:48,734 --> 01:21:50,934
the next best step for this pilot program.

1677
01:21:52,100 --> 01:21:56,367
So what is like, I guess this is why I thought the,

1678
01:21:56,500 --> 01:21:58,367
you know, like the solicitor was gonna be here.

1679
01:21:58,367 --> 01:22:02,300
Because if that is the case, if

1680
01:22:03,000 --> 01:22:05,100
a private entity is contracting

1681
01:22:05,100 --> 01:22:07,100
with this other private entity

1682
01:22:07,634 --> 01:22:09,767
that are violating our rights, we

1683
01:22:09,767 --> 01:22:11,834
as a municipality have the right to sue.

1684
01:22:12,467 --> 01:22:15,734
Would we therefore have the right to sue that private entity

1685
01:22:16,133 --> 01:22:18,000
for placing flock cameras within our municipality

1686
01:22:18,033 --> 01:22:20,033
and violating our resident's Fourth Amendment rights?

1687
01:22:24,100 --> 01:22:24,266
- I,

1688
01:22:38,367 --> 01:22:40,033
- I don't have an answer. I, yeah,

1689
01:22:40,266 --> 01:22:41,266
- Okay.

1690
01:22:41,266 --> 01:22:42,767
- Yeah. Yeah. I'd have to look

1691
01:22:42,867 --> 01:22:43,867
- Again.

1692
01:22:43,867 --> 01:22:45,300
That's, that's the next step. If we do not have the

1693
01:22:45,300 --> 01:22:47,934
authority to implement an Ordinance,

1694
01:22:48,867 --> 01:22:51,066
and like I said, that opens up a can of worms.

1695
01:22:51,867 --> 01:22:55,066
I don't, I don't think that a lot of our residents want

1696
01:22:55,066 --> 01:22:56,767
to be involved in that, that legal fight.

1697
01:22:58,133 --> 01:22:59,934
But it's also worth noting

1698
01:23:00,066 --> 01:23:03,033
that the last time a consumer PR consumer privacy protection

1699
01:23:03,433 --> 01:23:04,500
bill was signed into law.

1700
01:23:04,500 --> 01:23:07,467
Does anybody, anybody wanna guess when the last time a

1701
01:23:07,567 --> 01:23:11,867
Consumer Privacy Protection Act was signed into law 76,

1702
01:23:12,000 --> 01:23:13,266
ah, you were, you're, you're close.

1703
01:23:13,266 --> 01:23:18,033
88. 1988, when Robert Bork was nominated

1704
01:23:18,033 --> 01:23:22,066
for the Supreme Court, his videotape rentals were,

1705
01:23:22,100 --> 01:23:24,266
were, were gathered.

1706
01:23:24,433 --> 01:23:27,066
And then in reaction to that, the federal government said,

1707
01:23:27,133 --> 01:23:30,266
no, you cannot get videotape rentals.

1708
01:23:30,700 --> 01:23:31,834
And that's the last time

1709
01:23:32,000 --> 01:23:33,634
that we've had any protection for privacy.

1710
01:23:34,667 --> 01:23:36,934
So here we are almost 40 years later

1711
01:23:37,467 --> 01:23:39,533
and look at the state effects, right?

1712
01:23:39,734 --> 01:23:41,834
It's gotten to the point where the cameras

1713
01:23:42,367 --> 01:23:45,333
are now being placed in such a density that it mimics

1714
01:23:46,100 --> 01:23:48,033
a search on our phone, which again,

1715
01:23:48,166 --> 01:23:50,066
like the Supreme Court ruled in Carpenter

1716
01:23:50,066 --> 01:23:53,033
and just this year in chat review United States, that

1717
01:23:53,033 --> 01:23:54,066
that constitutes a search.

1718
01:23:54,734 --> 01:23:57,533
It's not like, I don't, I don't think it's that complicated.

1719
01:23:59,100 --> 01:24:02,500
I think that these entities are violating our rights

1720
01:24:02,734 --> 01:24:04,867
and whoever deploys them is opening

1721
01:24:04,867 --> 01:24:06,333
themselves up to liability.

1722
01:24:08,000 --> 01:24:11,533
I don't know, like if, if we have the ability to sue

1723
01:24:12,233 --> 01:24:14,133
and this private entity is violating our

1724
01:24:14,133 --> 01:24:15,934
rights, can we not sue them?

1725
01:24:17,533 --> 01:24:19,734
I like, I, I don't understand. I like,

1726
01:24:20,033 --> 01:24:23,734
- And have to get more, more information.

1727
01:24:23,834 --> 01:24:26,266
I go, I don't even know if we've ever sued anyone.

1728
01:24:27,133 --> 01:24:29,066
- Well, - I mean, anybody can sue

1729
01:24:29,066 --> 01:24:30,233
anybody for anything, right?

1730
01:24:30,233 --> 01:24:32,634
Yeah. And the judge can then throw out what, you know.

1731
01:24:32,934 --> 01:24:35,066
So I think it's sounds like more

1732
01:24:35,066 --> 01:24:36,567
information needs to be gathered.

1733
01:24:36,667 --> 01:24:38,333
Yep. In that particular instance.

1734
01:24:39,033 --> 01:24:41,634
I think it's important, you know, the conversation is good.

1735
01:24:41,634 --> 01:24:44,100
We have a lot of folks here I'm sure are gonna, you know,

1736
01:24:44,100 --> 01:24:46,000
share their thoughts on, and I look forward

1737
01:24:46,000 --> 01:24:47,300
to hearing from them about this.

1738
01:24:47,834 --> 01:24:50,000
I will also say this, there is another side of this

1739
01:24:50,033 --> 01:24:53,734
where I'm hearing from constituents that say this,

1740
01:24:53,834 --> 01:24:57,066
the typical argument of, I'm okay,

1741
01:24:57,166 --> 01:24:58,333
I'm not doing anything wrong.

1742
01:24:58,634 --> 01:25:00,100
You knew I was gonna say that, right?

1743
01:25:00,100 --> 01:25:02,000
Because that is, you know, that's one of the arguments

1744
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:03,734
that's on the opposite side.

1745
01:25:03,734 --> 01:25:04,767
And I, I understand that.

1746
01:25:05,166 --> 01:25:07,333
So in many ways I, I'm looking forward

1747
01:25:07,333 --> 01:25:10,634
to hearing the Public Comment on both sides, hearing

1748
01:25:10,634 --> 01:25:12,634
what folks are, you know, truly feel about this.

1749
01:25:12,734 --> 01:25:14,033
And then hearing

1750
01:25:14,033 --> 01:25:16,100
what staff recommends is maybe some next steps

1751
01:25:16,300 --> 01:25:17,367
that, that's where I'm at.

1752
01:25:17,500 --> 01:25:19,233
And also, I will say the email

1753
01:25:19,233 --> 01:25:22,533
that is being entered into the record does also include my

1754
01:25:22,700 --> 01:25:26,100
comments and thoughts about the Alps as well,

1755
01:25:26,033 --> 01:25:27,700
especially related to the things

1756
01:25:27,700 --> 01:25:29,567
that we do in the municipality that our officers

1757
01:25:29,567 --> 01:25:31,834
and others might use, et cetera.

1758
01:25:31,834 --> 01:25:34,000
Because I truly believe that I do not want

1759
01:25:34,000 --> 01:25:36,367
to hinder our officer's abilities to do their jobs.

1760
01:25:37,500 --> 01:25:39,133
But that is a separate topic again,

1761
01:25:39,133 --> 01:25:41,634
and I'm trying to separate those two, you know,

1762
01:25:41,834 --> 01:25:45,533
what our officers are doing and flock cameras again.

1763
01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:48,100
So thank you. I look forward to the next conversation.

1764
01:25:48,667 --> 01:25:50,033
- Yeah, I'd open up the floor

1765
01:25:50,033 --> 01:25:51,300
to Public Comment. If nobody had anything,

1766
01:25:52,100 --> 01:25:54,467
- I was gonna say the only thing I would probably bring up

1767
01:25:54,467 --> 01:25:57,367
right now, I, I would be in favor of a resolution

1768
01:25:57,433 --> 01:26:00,533
that captures the sentiment of our community

1769
01:26:00,533 --> 01:26:01,867
and where the board stands.

1770
01:26:03,467 --> 01:26:04,533
I, I know Ms.

1771
01:26:05,000 --> 01:26:06,266
The manager brought this up

1772
01:26:06,266 --> 01:26:09,066
and just considering recent comments from like the governor

1773
01:26:09,100 --> 01:26:12,700
as well as even some chatter in the state legislature of

1774
01:26:13,467 --> 01:26:16,033
bringing proposals forward, I think, you know,

1775
01:26:16,934 --> 01:26:20,300
it would probably be beneficial to have our voice

1776
01:26:22,867 --> 01:26:26,000
take our voices there to show

1777
01:26:26,000 --> 01:26:29,033
where we stand on this matter.

1778
01:26:29,000 --> 01:26:31,867
So agree. Leave it at that.

1779
01:26:32,467 --> 01:26:36,767
- I also think it's important that we work with the COG

1780
01:26:37,000 --> 01:26:41,834
and our COG municipalities as a voice on anything if,

1781
01:26:41,934 --> 01:26:46,233
if we have a unified voice to address

1782
01:26:46,300 --> 01:26:50,000
with Penn State and their use of flock or things like that

1783
01:26:52,834 --> 01:26:53,834
- Afterwards.

1784
01:26:53,834 --> 01:26:56,166
But yeah. Anybody

1785
01:26:56,333 --> 01:26:57,333
- Other board members?

1786
01:26:57,333 --> 01:26:59,667
I was gonna say feel free to open it up. I'll

1787
01:26:59,667 --> 01:27:01,467
- Let you, I'm feeling that's why everybody's here.

1788
01:27:02,100 --> 01:27:04,634
So I think this person had their hand first.

1789
01:27:14,000 --> 01:27:16,467
- Hi, good evening. I'm Helen Rose.

1790
01:27:16,867 --> 01:27:19,700
I'm a Patterson Township resident for about a year.

1791
01:27:20,367 --> 01:27:23,133
And I believe that this opportunity to speak

1792
01:27:23,133 --> 01:27:26,634
to this council is too good of an opportunity to pass up

1793
01:27:27,533 --> 01:27:30,133
on the topic of automatic license plate readers.

1794
01:27:30,467 --> 01:27:32,433
Outside of the moral implications.

1795
01:27:32,533 --> 01:27:34,333
We can talk about the legal implications

1796
01:27:34,333 --> 01:27:35,333
of a system like this.

1797
01:27:36,233 --> 01:27:41,033
In 2012, a case called US v Jones Police attached a tracking

1798
01:27:41,066 --> 01:27:43,000
device to Antoine Jones' car

1799
01:27:43,367 --> 01:27:46,000
and charged him for crimes using his physical location

1800
01:27:46,100 --> 01:27:49,900
as a personal whistleblower brought, he brought this

1801
01:27:49,900 --> 01:27:52,233
before the Supreme Court and the majority found

1802
01:27:52,233 --> 01:27:54,133
that this was unconstitutional.

1803
01:27:54,734 --> 01:27:57,266
And though that founding was based on the physical

1804
01:27:57,266 --> 01:28:00,100
attributes of that case, it set the precedent

1805
01:28:00,100 --> 01:28:02,100
for a few more questions that needed to be answered.

1806
01:28:02,100 --> 01:28:06,867
In following quick cases, if we continue to 2018,

1807
01:28:07,033 --> 01:28:09,100
like Mr. White mentioned, the carpenter versus us

1808
01:28:09,867 --> 01:28:13,500
gathered 127 days of historical self on location data

1809
01:28:13,533 --> 01:28:16,500
to attach his approximate location to several robberies.

1810
01:28:17,066 --> 01:28:18,734
He argued that it was a violation

1811
01:28:18,734 --> 01:28:20,066
of his fourth amendment rights

1812
01:28:20,066 --> 01:28:21,433
to unreasonable search and seizure.

1813
01:28:22,000 --> 01:28:24,433
And the Supreme Court agreed with him establishing

1814
01:28:24,433 --> 01:28:26,133
that this long-term surveillance was

1815
01:28:26,100 --> 01:28:27,266
a constitutional violation.

1816
01:28:28,033 --> 01:28:29,867
This left open the question on whether

1817
01:28:29,867 --> 01:28:32,934
or not the scope determined its unconstitutionality.

1818
01:28:33,467 --> 01:28:35,700
And according to Sanchi versus the US

1819
01:28:36,000 --> 01:28:38,867
where the police investigated a robbery back in 2019

1820
01:28:39,066 --> 01:28:41,000
where police asked Google to supply them

1821
01:28:41,000 --> 01:28:44,667
with all devices present in the, during a one hour window

1822
01:28:44,700 --> 01:28:47,033
to the robbery site, Sanchi was arrested

1823
01:28:47,033 --> 01:28:48,433
for the findings that came from this.

1824
01:28:49,233 --> 01:28:51,000
Ella Sanchi tried to demonstrate

1825
01:28:51,000 --> 01:28:52,100
before the Supreme Court

1826
01:28:52,100 --> 01:28:54,834
that this was an unconstitutional Fourth Amendment search.

1827
01:28:55,033 --> 01:28:57,333
And again, the Supreme Court agreed

1828
01:28:58,000 --> 01:29:00,567
these cases together demonstrate that even a snapshot

1829
01:29:00,567 --> 01:29:02,500
of someone's whereabouts can constitute

1830
01:29:02,734 --> 01:29:04,000
a constitutional violation.

1831
01:29:05,000 --> 01:29:07,266
In conjunction with these automatic readers themselves,

1832
01:29:07,634 --> 01:29:10,066
they can provide actual safety concerns.

1833
01:29:10,500 --> 01:29:12,100
People under no investigation

1834
01:29:12,166 --> 01:29:14,634
or under no suspicion of any crime can be subject

1835
01:29:14,667 --> 01:29:16,867
to unnecessary infringements of privacy.

1836
01:29:17,934 --> 01:29:20,133
At least 50 police officers have been accused

1837
01:29:20,233 --> 01:29:21,467
or charged with the misuse

1838
01:29:21,467 --> 01:29:23,734
of automated license plate readers like flock cameras.

1839
01:29:24,133 --> 01:29:25,934
And according to a recent investigation

1840
01:29:25,934 --> 01:29:28,233
by the Washington Post, at least 46

1841
01:29:28,233 --> 01:29:30,100
of these reports came from flock cameras.

1842
01:29:30,367 --> 01:29:33,500
Specifically a Texas officer searched the nationwide

1843
01:29:33,734 --> 01:29:35,567
database to find a woman who had gotten an abortion.

1844
01:29:36,033 --> 01:29:39,033
And according to the 4 0 4 media police departments

1845
01:29:39,033 --> 01:29:41,700
around the country have used flock cameras at least hundreds

1846
01:29:41,700 --> 01:29:44,333
of times to search for specific people, not cars.

1847
01:29:44,734 --> 01:29:47,834
And using searches such as heavyset male with a black

1848
01:29:47,834 --> 01:29:50,133
and white hat person on skateboard

1849
01:29:50,500 --> 01:29:52,066
and person wearing orange vests

1850
01:29:52,066 --> 01:29:54,000
and construction hat according

1851
01:29:54,000 --> 01:29:55,533
to the data reviewed by 4 0 4.

1852
01:29:55,533 --> 01:29:59,567
Media sometimes searches reference a targets race

1853
01:29:59,934 --> 01:30:02,033
or signs of their political affiliation.

1854
01:30:02,767 --> 01:30:04,867
These sorts of infringements on our privacy

1855
01:30:05,266 --> 01:30:07,066
and constitutional freedoms should be

1856
01:30:07,066 --> 01:30:08,333
protected above all else.

1857
01:30:09,066 --> 01:30:11,333
And even as a non-resident of this specific Township,

1858
01:30:11,767 --> 01:30:13,767
I urge the council to deeply consider

1859
01:30:14,333 --> 01:30:16,100
all resolutions for this matter.

1860
01:30:16,467 --> 01:30:17,467
Thank you.

1861
01:30:20,100 --> 01:30:24,100
- Thank you. Do

1862
01:30:24,100 --> 01:30:25,133
you want to call the next one?

1863
01:30:25,333 --> 01:30:29,266
- Well, I think, I think right it right, right. Oh, okay.

1864
01:30:29,266 --> 01:30:31,533
Yeah, yeah. Right.

1865
01:30:31,667 --> 01:30:32,000
- Is next

1866
01:30:38,100 --> 01:30:38,500
Good evening.

1867
01:30:38,634 --> 01:30:40,367
I'm Ray Ger, I'm from College Township

1868
01:30:41,033 --> 01:30:44,033
and I also spent 35 years in the intelligence community.

1869
01:30:44,834 --> 01:30:47,000
So I can confirm Trevor's assessment

1870
01:30:47,133 --> 01:30:51,100
of the current situation with these particular a LPRs.

1871
01:30:52,066 --> 01:30:54,934
I was also, for the last 20 years of my career,

1872
01:30:55,066 --> 01:30:58,500
I was a senior FISA analyst, FIA Adjudicator.

1873
01:30:58,767 --> 01:31:00,133
FISA, for those of you don't know is a foreign

1874
01:31:00,133 --> 01:31:01,500
intelligence surveillance act.

1875
01:31:02,033 --> 01:31:05,834
And I can confirm that Trevor's assessment of the fact

1876
01:31:05,834 --> 01:31:09,467
that you do need a warrant, a judicial warrant for

1877
01:31:10,533 --> 01:31:15,367
accessing cell phone geo data is absolutely correct

1878
01:31:16,033 --> 01:31:18,500
and it's a pretty involved process.

1879
01:31:19,834 --> 01:31:23,500
So the something else, I'm not, I'm not gonna continue down

1880
01:31:23,500 --> 01:31:25,133
that road, but something else you need to consider here,

1881
01:31:25,166 --> 01:31:29,533
since I worked on the oversight aspect of

1882
01:31:29,700 --> 01:31:34,033
that quite a bit, the oversight aspect

1883
01:31:34,033 --> 01:31:36,033
of this obviously is very flawed.

1884
01:31:36,133 --> 01:31:38,233
We've seen that already with at least two court cases

1885
01:31:38,367 --> 01:31:43,100
with several hundred violations of the use of these cameras.

1886
01:31:44,500 --> 01:31:47,300
And I can tell you from my experience

1887
01:31:48,133 --> 01:31:51,500
for a very long time within the agency, you would be lucky

1888
01:31:51,500 --> 01:31:53,066
to see one per year

1889
01:31:53,166 --> 01:31:56,033
because of the stringent oversight we had for this.

1890
01:31:56,166 --> 01:31:58,634
Because before we put the system in place,

1891
01:31:59,233 --> 01:32:01,333
the oversight system was there.

1892
01:32:02,100 --> 01:32:04,834
It was not only an automated oversight system in order

1893
01:32:04,834 --> 01:32:07,000
to flag anything that looked unusual,

1894
01:32:07,567 --> 01:32:11,367
but it also had a multi-layered manual oversight system

1895
01:32:11,734 --> 01:32:14,000
where individuals like me had to go in

1896
01:32:14,000 --> 01:32:16,233
and look at every single query,

1897
01:32:16,266 --> 01:32:18,834
every single time someone touched this data.

1898
01:32:19,734 --> 01:32:23,033
Didn't matter how that data was touched somehow if somebody

1899
01:32:23,133 --> 01:32:26,567
accidentally clicked on a file that was checked

1900
01:32:27,100 --> 01:32:29,867
and if it was in violation, that person went to jail.

1901
01:32:31,133 --> 01:32:34,634
We know that this system is lax already.

1902
01:32:35,367 --> 01:32:39,100
The oversight system, as I said,

1903
01:32:39,567 --> 01:32:42,834
a system like this requires very, very meticulous oversight

1904
01:32:43,734 --> 01:32:48,000
just from a manning point alone for local law enforcement.

1905
01:32:48,233 --> 01:32:51,333
And I do think Alps do have a very good use

1906
01:32:51,900 --> 01:32:53,033
if used properly.

1907
01:32:53,900 --> 01:32:58,266
However, these systems with their weak oversight are going

1908
01:32:58,266 --> 01:33:00,100
to require that level of oversight.

1909
01:33:00,634 --> 01:33:03,233
And that may very well require you,

1910
01:33:03,867 --> 01:33:05,767
we will require local law enforcement

1911
01:33:05,834 --> 01:33:08,033
to hire additional people, train them up.

1912
01:33:08,500 --> 01:33:09,467
And this is gonna have to be

1913
01:33:09,467 --> 01:33:11,000
continual training, not just once.

1914
01:33:12,367 --> 01:33:14,867
For us it was at least every six months we

1915
01:33:14,867 --> 01:33:16,033
had to redo the training.

1916
01:33:16,467 --> 01:33:20,033
And that training has to keep on being modernized

1917
01:33:20,000 --> 01:33:21,767
as the systems are updated.

1918
01:33:22,467 --> 01:33:24,934
So think of that as well,

1919
01:33:25,634 --> 01:33:27,567
just the oversight mechanism itself

1920
01:33:28,533 --> 01:33:30,834
completely separate from the LPRs.

1921
01:33:31,266 --> 01:33:32,634
You have to deal with that as well.

1922
01:33:32,734 --> 01:33:36,133
So, and I know you have everywhere we have really have a

1923
01:33:36,133 --> 01:33:38,033
hard time hiring police officers,

1924
01:33:38,100 --> 01:33:39,233
law enforcement everywhere.

1925
01:33:39,834 --> 01:33:42,066
So we really need to think that about

1926
01:33:42,066 --> 01:33:44,333
that aspect of it as well. Thank you.

1927
01:33:44,767 --> 01:33:46,233
- Thank you. - Thank you.

1928
01:33:47,634 --> 01:33:51,834
- Yes. Mr. Hall, - Mr. Builder, thank you for that.

1929
01:33:51,900 --> 01:33:55,233
And I will say that the A LPR comments I have here do

1930
01:33:55,233 --> 01:33:57,000
address some of that at the tip of the iceberg

1931
01:33:57,100 --> 01:33:58,133
as maybe some next steps

1932
01:33:58,133 --> 01:33:59,266
that you'll see in the public record.

1933
01:33:59,667 --> 01:34:00,667
So thank you.

1934
01:34:02,300 --> 01:34:03,533
- Just - Gonna say you wanna go online?

1935
01:34:03,667 --> 01:34:05,533
Yeah, we'll go the second row. Yeah. To Kyle.

1936
01:34:09,734 --> 01:34:13,266
- Hey there. So I was just wondering, as far as I'm aware,

1937
01:34:14,133 --> 01:34:17,500
I, I don't know that there are any flock

1938
01:34:17,634 --> 01:34:20,133
or other A LPR camera systems

1939
01:34:22,667 --> 01:34:25,300
of the kind that we are generally speaking concerned about

1940
01:34:25,667 --> 01:34:28,233
currently in Ferguson Township.

1941
01:34:28,934 --> 01:34:31,033
Is that an accurate statement?

1942
01:34:31,734 --> 01:34:35,000
- To my understanding, yes. Which is why I proposed this.

1943
01:34:36,000 --> 01:34:38,300
- Okay, cool. So we're just trying to make sure

1944
01:34:38,500 --> 01:34:39,533
that it stays that way.

1945
01:34:41,133 --> 01:34:44,100
Is there anybody currently that is proposing the

1946
01:34:44,533 --> 01:34:47,700
introduction of those in Ferguson Township?

1947
01:34:48,367 --> 01:34:50,700
- That's the beauty of private entities is we

1948
01:34:50,700 --> 01:34:51,767
don't know until it happens.

1949
01:34:51,767 --> 01:34:53,233
Right. We didn't know

1950
01:34:53,500 --> 01:34:55,634
that Penn State was planning on putting them up

1951
01:34:55,634 --> 01:34:56,834
everywhere until

1952
01:34:56,834 --> 01:34:57,834
- They did.

1953
01:34:59,467 --> 01:35:02,266
- Agreed. Okay, that makes sense.

1954
01:35:04,266 --> 01:35:07,634
So as far as I understand it, most

1955
01:35:07,934 --> 01:35:10,934
of the concerns that we all share around

1956
01:35:11,767 --> 01:35:15,867
A LPR cameras and the way that information is used

1957
01:35:15,867 --> 01:35:20,100
and abused is it's, it's basically around data privacy

1958
01:35:20,500 --> 01:35:24,934
and how the Fourth Amendment hasn't kept up

1959
01:35:25,000 --> 01:35:27,033
with modern data privacy concerns.

1960
01:35:27,700 --> 01:35:31,066
And so I would just say that I feel

1961
01:35:31,567 --> 01:35:35,533
a good data privacy regulation could make a lot

1962
01:35:35,533 --> 01:35:37,734
of this redundant, essentially.

1963
01:35:39,266 --> 01:35:40,333
- I agree wholeheartedly.

1964
01:35:42,567 --> 01:35:44,133
- That's all that I have to say for now. Thank you.

1965
01:35:44,533 --> 01:35:47,033
- Thank you so much. Gonna say, I don't know,

1966
01:35:47,467 --> 01:35:48,734
do we have anyone in the third row?

1967
01:35:48,734 --> 01:35:50,467
I know there's the red shirt. Oh sorry.

1968
01:35:50,533 --> 01:35:52,467
Well the red shirt in the third row.

1969
01:35:52,734 --> 01:35:55,300
I don't think we had anyone in the second row. Alright,

1970
01:36:03,266 --> 01:36:04,700
- I'll introduce myself this way.

1971
01:36:04,934 --> 01:36:09,300
I'm Thomas's dad, Still lived in State College for 27 years

1972
01:36:09,634 --> 01:36:12,266
and in Ferguson Township all of that time.

1973
01:36:12,367 --> 01:36:14,634
And I will start by saying thank you

1974
01:36:15,233 --> 01:36:16,500
'cause we really have a great community.

1975
01:36:17,066 --> 01:36:19,066
I really think you guys do an excellent job all around.

1976
01:36:20,033 --> 01:36:21,767
We've really enjoyed living here

1977
01:36:21,900 --> 01:36:25,734
and I'm happy to do, try to recruit faculty member join us

1978
01:36:26,533 --> 01:36:29,000
here on the campus community.

1979
01:36:29,467 --> 01:36:32,300
I, I do really do share the concerns though about this.

1980
01:36:32,333 --> 01:36:34,033
So my, I mean, it's hard to kind

1981
01:36:34,033 --> 01:36:35,066
of articulate all the issues here.

1982
01:36:35,066 --> 01:36:37,133
There's clearly the privacy issue that we have

1983
01:36:37,133 --> 01:36:39,834
to worry about and the legal aspect of it.

1984
01:36:40,333 --> 01:36:42,867
But I'm also a professor of kinda,

1985
01:36:43,033 --> 01:36:44,100
I have a PhD in statistics

1986
01:36:44,634 --> 01:36:46,000
and I'm in the business school in,

1987
01:36:46,667 --> 01:36:48,066
you know, doing marketing.

1988
01:36:48,166 --> 01:36:51,100
And so I, I look at this as,

1989
01:36:51,133 --> 01:36:56,100
as a much broader concern than just can it be used to,

1990
01:36:56,367 --> 01:36:58,333
for law enforcement purposes and appropriately.

1991
01:36:58,634 --> 01:37:00,567
I mean, this is gonna be a data set that's gonna be taken

1992
01:37:01,133 --> 01:37:03,934
and these guys who are taking this data set have an

1993
01:37:03,934 --> 01:37:06,300
incentive structure to do a lot more with

1994
01:37:06,300 --> 01:37:10,367
that than just simply to help inform local law enforcement.

1995
01:37:11,100 --> 01:37:14,367
And I think that they track you through the web

1996
01:37:14,433 --> 01:37:17,000
and there's some anonymity, anonymity you can do there,

1997
01:37:17,033 --> 01:37:19,634
but they're gonna try to actually build something equivalent

1998
01:37:19,634 --> 01:37:20,834
to that here.

1999
01:37:20,834 --> 01:37:24,634
And so I personally, where I sit is, I,

2000
01:37:24,734 --> 01:37:28,834
I actually like the idea of justice coming forward.

2001
01:37:29,000 --> 01:37:32,033
I mean there's a, an article you may have seen recently in

2002
01:37:32,033 --> 01:37:34,567
the New York Times about this ice officer

2003
01:37:34,767 --> 01:37:36,500
that shot somebody through a door.

2004
01:37:36,700 --> 01:37:38,000
And the reason they found out

2005
01:37:38,000 --> 01:37:40,934
what really happened was there was a camera

2006
01:37:41,033 --> 01:37:42,033
that was controlled

2007
01:37:42,033 --> 01:37:45,834
and owned by the city that was turned to look at that.

2008
01:37:46,000 --> 01:37:47,834
And I'm okay with that. I'm okay with

2009
01:37:48,433 --> 01:37:50,467
law enforcement having access to these tools.

2010
01:37:51,333 --> 01:37:52,867
I think with the right controls,

2011
01:37:53,000 --> 01:37:54,834
like Ray said, that's appropriate.

2012
01:37:55,767 --> 01:37:58,033
I think it's a big ask though. I don't know.

2013
01:37:58,033 --> 01:37:59,533
We have our law enforcement folks here.

2014
01:37:59,533 --> 01:38:01,233
It's a, it's not a trivial ask.

2015
01:38:02,100 --> 01:38:04,233
And so what is the response from us?

2016
01:38:04,300 --> 01:38:07,066
Well, the response from us might be opening our pocketbook

2017
01:38:07,066 --> 01:38:09,700
up a little bit more and making sure we can actually handle

2018
01:38:09,700 --> 01:38:11,734
that and ex execute that.

2019
01:38:11,734 --> 01:38:16,033
I think that's fine. But I don't want them tracking me

2020
01:38:16,100 --> 01:38:19,467
and having that go into the ad machine that goes around

2021
01:38:19,467 --> 01:38:22,734
and sends me things and sells my information around.

2022
01:38:23,000 --> 01:38:25,367
I, I think that's, we've kind of gotten used to that.

2023
01:38:25,367 --> 01:38:27,567
We sold out to that with the internet

2024
01:38:27,767 --> 01:38:31,767
'cause of the, the kind of, you know, ease of use

2025
01:38:31,834 --> 01:38:34,066
and the the things we get from the internet from that.

2026
01:38:34,133 --> 01:38:37,834
But we don't have to sell out to that here. Right.

2027
01:38:38,266 --> 01:38:39,734
And then there's a, I don't know if you,

2028
01:38:39,834 --> 01:38:42,667
another little thing if you want to go watch something

2029
01:38:42,667 --> 01:38:45,734
for entertainment is Mr. Bates versus the post office.

2030
01:38:45,734 --> 01:38:47,066
Have you ever seen that movie? No.

2031
01:38:47,533 --> 01:38:50,500
- Who's - That? So this is, my wife is English,

2032
01:38:50,500 --> 01:38:52,634
Thomas is English, he has a English passport

2033
01:38:53,233 --> 01:38:55,867
who I think he maybe has political aspirations here.

2034
01:38:55,867 --> 01:38:57,767
We'll see he was born here so he can,

2035
01:38:57,767 --> 01:38:59,100
he can do the whole shot if he wants to.

2036
01:39:00,667 --> 01:39:02,433
Mr. Bates booth's the post office in the uk.

2037
01:39:03,133 --> 01:39:07,033
And so UK postal systems that's run by one big massive

2038
01:39:07,734 --> 01:39:10,567
central government agency owned by the UK government.

2039
01:39:10,734 --> 01:39:12,867
And then they have all these little franchises

2040
01:39:12,867 --> 01:39:14,300
that run the local post services

2041
01:39:15,033 --> 01:39:19,767
and they hired a large entity, it entity

2042
01:39:19,767 --> 01:39:21,900
to run the books and to manage the books.

2043
01:39:22,000 --> 01:39:24,433
And you find that people were getting arrested

2044
01:39:24,500 --> 01:39:28,133
and they were getting deposed from their positions

2045
01:39:28,133 --> 01:39:29,367
because of accounting errors.

2046
01:39:29,500 --> 01:39:32,667
And then eventually as the story unfolds, it founds out

2047
01:39:32,667 --> 01:39:36,500
that this turns out this big system that was contracted

2048
01:39:36,500 --> 01:39:39,066
to the government but was independent from the government,

2049
01:39:39,867 --> 01:39:42,133
had access to all of the post office's accounts.

2050
01:39:42,367 --> 01:39:44,133
And if there was an error in the accounting,

2051
01:39:44,133 --> 01:39:45,667
they would go on and actually make manipulations.

2052
01:39:46,433 --> 01:39:47,567
They wouldn't disclose it.

2053
01:39:47,767 --> 01:39:49,333
And eventually the auditors would come in

2054
01:39:49,333 --> 01:39:51,367
and they would take these people to court

2055
01:39:52,000 --> 01:39:53,433
and take away their franchises.

2056
01:39:53,533 --> 01:39:57,133
And, and that's the kind of thing that is, it's kind

2057
01:39:57,133 --> 01:39:58,100
of going back to what Ray was saying.

2058
01:39:58,100 --> 01:39:59,734
We don't want, right?

2059
01:39:59,734 --> 01:40:02,367
We, we want to have this with the right oversight.

2060
01:40:02,900 --> 01:40:06,333
So technology's moving fast, it's challenging,

2061
01:40:06,900 --> 01:40:08,033
it's gonna be expensive

2062
01:40:08,533 --> 01:40:10,567
and if we're gonna do this right, we have to step forward.

2063
01:40:11,433 --> 01:40:14,266
So I, I'm actually very supportive of this idea

2064
01:40:14,266 --> 01:40:15,900
of putting some kind of restriction.

2065
01:40:16,367 --> 01:40:19,133
I mean I'd love to see the whole COG community come

2066
01:40:19,133 --> 01:40:21,033
and tell Penn State they can't point their cameras off of,

2067
01:40:21,100 --> 01:40:23,300
it's illegal for them to point their cameras off of campus.

2068
01:40:23,367 --> 01:40:25,100
If they wanna point 'em on campus, fine,

2069
01:40:25,100 --> 01:40:26,133
but don't point 'em on Beaver

2070
01:40:26,133 --> 01:40:27,133
or don't point 'em anywhere else

2071
01:40:27,934 --> 01:40:30,100
and give 'em a big fine and go to court.

2072
01:40:30,900 --> 01:40:32,734
One thing we've learned from our president is you

2073
01:40:32,734 --> 01:40:33,767
can sue anybody in this world.

2074
01:40:34,900 --> 01:40:36,900
We have learned that. Let's take 'em on.

2075
01:40:37,000 --> 01:40:38,133
I'm completely supportive of that.

2076
01:40:45,500 --> 01:40:47,166
- I see one in the second row there.

2077
01:40:58,333 --> 01:40:59,700
- Can you hear me? Yep.

2078
01:41:01,100 --> 01:41:02,700
My name is Karen Dabney

2079
01:41:03,266 --> 01:41:06,634
and I am a park, a Park Forest

2080
01:41:07,066 --> 01:41:08,700
resident on the other side.

2081
01:41:09,333 --> 01:41:11,533
But I drive through on Patton,

2082
01:41:11,934 --> 01:41:15,066
but I drive through Ferguson obviously all the time.

2083
01:41:18,100 --> 01:41:21,300
And I thought since it keeps coming up

2084
01:41:22,000 --> 01:41:25,834
and since this is a crucial issue, why not

2085
01:41:27,100 --> 01:41:30,033
read the fourth Amendment into the record?

2086
01:41:31,100 --> 01:41:32,300
Okay. Alright.

2087
01:41:33,834 --> 01:41:38,000
The right of the people to be secure in their persons

2088
01:41:38,667 --> 01:41:40,100
houses, papers,

2089
01:41:40,900 --> 01:41:44,233
and effects against unreasonable searches

2090
01:41:44,500 --> 01:41:47,533
and seizures shall not be violated.

2091
01:41:48,266 --> 01:41:50,700
And no warrants shall issue,

2092
01:41:51,133 --> 01:41:55,266
but upon probable cause supported by oath

2093
01:41:55,900 --> 01:42:00,367
or affirmation and particularly describing the place

2094
01:42:00,567 --> 01:42:05,066
to be searched and the persons or things to be seized.

2095
01:42:06,934 --> 01:42:11,734
So I believe my understanding of the Fourth Amendment

2096
01:42:12,367 --> 01:42:15,367
is that these types of searches

2097
01:42:16,433 --> 01:42:21,033
without warrants, without probable cause, without

2098
01:42:21,834 --> 01:42:25,867
a specific person or thing to be seized

2099
01:42:28,100 --> 01:42:32,834
is against the Fourth Amendment, which is part

2100
01:42:32,834 --> 01:42:36,734
of our constitution, which is supposed to be the bedrock

2101
01:42:36,834 --> 01:42:38,333
that our country is built on.

2102
01:42:39,033 --> 01:42:41,467
Now the bedrock's getting flexed a lot

2103
01:42:41,834 --> 01:42:43,467
by certain individuals,

2104
01:42:44,000 --> 01:42:47,500
but y'all have the opportunity to push back

2105
01:42:47,500 --> 01:42:52,467
and say, no, this is what we do, this is what we do.

2106
01:42:53,066 --> 01:42:56,033
And if we're not doing this, I work some

2107
01:42:56,100 --> 01:42:57,367
with international people.

2108
01:42:59,700 --> 01:43:02,834
One of my Chinese people said, when I asked,

2109
01:43:03,133 --> 01:43:06,300
what do you like about staying at State College?

2110
01:43:07,266 --> 01:43:11,033
I can say what I want. I can say anything I want.

2111
01:43:12,000 --> 01:43:13,033
Can't do that in China.

2112
01:43:14,500 --> 01:43:18,100
Another one told me, nobody speaks their mind

2113
01:43:19,667 --> 01:43:22,500
because it can be reported.

2114
01:43:23,333 --> 01:43:24,567
There's only one party

2115
01:43:24,734 --> 01:43:26,700
and you wanna be in good standing with them.

2116
01:43:28,100 --> 01:43:32,266
So we could opt for this and keep moving this direction

2117
01:43:32,700 --> 01:43:36,333
and go for that surveillance state that it appears a lot

2118
01:43:36,333 --> 01:43:39,700
of powerful and wealthy people are really keen on.

2119
01:43:40,333 --> 01:43:44,066
Or we could pull back and we could say, no, this is America.

2120
01:43:44,066 --> 01:43:45,734
This is the America we want.

2121
01:43:46,033 --> 01:43:48,834
We want the United States Constitution

2122
01:43:49,367 --> 01:43:52,734
and all of the amendments including the Bill of Rights.

2123
01:43:54,567 --> 01:43:57,767
So thank you so much Mr. White

2124
01:43:58,834 --> 01:44:02,133
and all the rest of you for remembering

2125
01:44:03,000 --> 01:44:04,066
what America has been.

2126
01:44:04,734 --> 01:44:06,467
I have a lot of veterans

2127
01:44:06,634 --> 01:44:10,133
and even active duty military and my family.

2128
01:44:11,300 --> 01:44:16,100
I promise you none of them have fought or are fighting

2129
01:44:16,634 --> 01:44:18,467
and serving for America

2130
01:44:18,634 --> 01:44:21,367
to become a surveillance surveillance state.

2131
01:44:23,000 --> 01:44:26,000
All of our leaders have sworn to uphold the constitution.

2132
01:44:26,533 --> 01:44:30,233
Right? And certainly we can too. Thank you.

2133
01:44:39,100 --> 01:44:39,533
- Anyone else?

2134
01:44:50,367 --> 01:44:52,734
- All right, can you hear me? Yep. All right.

2135
01:44:53,000 --> 01:44:54,133
My name is Laney Vina.

2136
01:44:54,233 --> 01:44:57,100
I'm a Ferguson Township resident over on West College Ave.

2137
01:44:57,900 --> 01:45:00,567
And I wanna thank you all for giving us the opportunity

2138
01:45:00,667 --> 01:45:01,834
to share our concerns.

2139
01:45:01,834 --> 01:45:03,533
I wanna thank you for sharing our concerns.

2140
01:45:04,266 --> 01:45:07,033
This is what representative government is supposed to do.

2141
01:45:07,867 --> 01:45:09,266
So my comment is brief.

2142
01:45:10,300 --> 01:45:13,066
It's not a type of comment that I've created myself.

2143
01:45:13,100 --> 01:45:13,934
It's being shared in

2144
01:45:13,934 --> 01:45:15,100
meetings like this all over the country.

2145
01:45:16,066 --> 01:45:18,000
It's a little game called flock or fiction.

2146
01:45:18,900 --> 01:45:22,567
So I am going to, yeah, it's a tennis meeting.

2147
01:45:22,700 --> 01:45:23,934
We could break that up a little bit.

2148
01:45:24,700 --> 01:45:26,133
I'm going to make a statement

2149
01:45:26,233 --> 01:45:29,300
and then you get to guess if it is a statement referring

2150
01:45:29,300 --> 01:45:31,266
to flock or other license plate reading cameras

2151
01:45:32,066 --> 01:45:35,634
or referring to a fictional piece of entertainment media.

2152
01:45:36,667 --> 01:45:37,700
So first, which

2153
01:45:37,700 --> 01:45:40,500
of the following has us has utilized mass surveillance?

2154
01:45:40,700 --> 01:45:43,533
Is it A the lizard from Spider-Man B,

2155
01:45:43,867 --> 01:45:48,066
jigsaw from Spider-Man or C Flock? Any guesses?

2156
01:45:48,367 --> 01:45:51,233
- Flock. - It's flock. All right.

2157
01:45:51,233 --> 01:45:52,734
Number two, which

2158
01:45:52,734 --> 01:45:55,367
of the following have called their opponents terrorists?

2159
01:45:56,100 --> 01:46:00,100
Is it a Emperor palpatine from Star Wars B President,

2160
01:46:00,100 --> 01:46:01,066
snow from the Hunger Games

2161
01:46:01,266 --> 01:46:03,567
or see Garrett Langley, CEO of flock?

2162
01:46:05,100 --> 01:46:06,934
- Is there an all of the above answer?

2163
01:46:08,634 --> 01:46:10,233
- So you could argue that it's all of the above,

2164
01:46:10,266 --> 01:46:13,266
but the only person to specifically use the word terrorist

2165
01:46:13,367 --> 01:46:15,367
was c Garrett Langley, CEO of flock.

2166
01:46:16,066 --> 01:46:18,000
He referred to the D flock movement

2167
01:46:18,000 --> 01:46:21,033
as terrorists in a 2025 interview with Forbes.

2168
01:46:22,500 --> 01:46:24,634
Question three, which of the following has had a

2169
01:46:24,634 --> 01:46:26,500
40% inaccuracy rate?

2170
01:46:27,100 --> 01:46:29,100
Is it a, the move sheer cold from Pokemon

2171
01:46:31,100 --> 01:46:35,300
B flock cameras or C flame charge also from Pokemon?

2172
01:46:37,500 --> 01:46:38,834
Again, I didn't write this.

2173
01:46:38,834 --> 01:46:40,567
There are some brilliant people all over the country

2174
01:46:40,567 --> 01:46:41,634
that have shared this online.

2175
01:46:41,867 --> 01:46:44,033
I just thought it was important to echo it here.

2176
01:46:44,700 --> 01:46:47,133
So the answer is, B flock cameras according

2177
01:46:47,133 --> 01:46:49,567
to an independent review of traffic stops caused

2178
01:46:49,567 --> 01:46:51,734
by flock camera alerts in Oak Park.

2179
01:46:52,166 --> 01:46:55,634
40% of those stops were mistakes due to bad data

2180
01:46:55,834 --> 01:46:58,233
or officer error, emphasis on bad data.

2181
01:46:59,767 --> 01:47:00,834
Question four, which

2182
01:47:00,834 --> 01:47:02,867
of the following completely eradicated

2183
01:47:02,900 --> 01:47:04,033
crime in their country?

2184
01:47:04,433 --> 01:47:08,567
Is it a Dr. Doom from Marvel comics B flock cameras

2185
01:47:09,100 --> 01:47:11,033
or C Clay face from DC Comics?

2186
01:47:11,467 --> 01:47:12,767
- That's, that's a right,

2187
01:47:13,166 --> 01:47:14,700
- It is a doctor two.

2188
01:47:16,066 --> 01:47:20,100
Look at you go. Alright. It is not B flock cameras.

2189
01:47:20,233 --> 01:47:22,467
In a recent article by the Atlanta Community Press

2190
01:47:22,533 --> 01:47:23,700
collective quote,

2191
01:47:24,133 --> 01:47:26,533
despite an eightfold increase in the number

2192
01:47:26,533 --> 01:47:29,266
of cameras integrated into the city's connect Atlanta

2193
01:47:29,567 --> 01:47:32,300
surveillance program, crime clearance rates have not

2194
01:47:32,300 --> 01:47:34,734
meaningfully increased according to data collected

2195
01:47:34,734 --> 01:47:37,300
by the FBI furthermore, sorry, end quote.

2196
01:47:37,533 --> 01:47:40,233
Furthermore, despite an increase in flock cameras,

2197
01:47:40,433 --> 01:47:43,133
the Atlanta Police department's rate of successfully solving

2198
01:47:43,767 --> 01:47:46,867
homicides hit a five year low in 2025.

2199
01:47:47,900 --> 01:47:49,700
So that's the end of the questions.

2200
01:47:49,767 --> 01:47:51,033
I think you got a perfect score.

2201
01:47:52,634 --> 01:47:53,767
I don't really have anything to add

2202
01:47:53,767 --> 01:47:56,033
beyond what's been said already by some very, very

2203
01:47:56,700 --> 01:47:59,266
passionate people, but I just wanted to share those things

2204
01:47:59,367 --> 01:48:02,734
and enter into the record that the CEO of Flock referred to

2205
01:48:02,734 --> 01:48:06,266
as opponents as terrorists in a 2025 interview.

2206
01:48:06,467 --> 01:48:08,233
So thank you again, and I appreciate

2207
01:48:08,233 --> 01:48:09,266
you hearing our concerns.

2208
01:48:09,667 --> 01:48:14,066
- Thank you. Yeah, thank, thank you so much.

2209
01:48:14,300 --> 01:48:17,033
I I, I was gonna say, sometimes I try, well I try

2210
01:48:17,033 --> 01:48:19,934
to be serious just to keep, you know, decorum.

2211
01:48:19,934 --> 01:48:22,000
But you know, you brought up a lot of good points

2212
01:48:22,166 --> 01:48:26,266
and also appreci appreciate the, the, the lightness.

2213
01:48:26,734 --> 01:48:27,867
It, it helps every now

2214
01:48:27,867 --> 01:48:31,000
and then I believe in the Penn State shirt.

2215
01:48:31,367 --> 01:48:34,567
And then I was gonna say we haven't even, we'll get

2216
01:48:34,567 --> 01:48:38,300
to the fourth row next or yeah, the fourth row.

2217
01:48:44,467 --> 01:48:47,300
- So hello again. Ben Lambert Ferguson Township.

2218
01:48:48,133 --> 01:48:50,500
I'm gonna make a completely different argument than I would

2219
01:48:50,500 --> 01:48:52,834
have a number of years ago.

2220
01:48:53,634 --> 01:48:58,033
And it really comes down to I'm raising two children here

2221
01:48:58,233 --> 01:49:02,934
and what kind of place do I want my children to grow up in?

2222
01:49:03,100 --> 01:49:05,700
And I want you to think about your children if you have

2223
01:49:05,700 --> 01:49:06,934
them, your grandchildren,

2224
01:49:07,100 --> 01:49:09,767
and think you about where you want them growing up

2225
01:49:10,000 --> 01:49:13,066
and how you want them to experience this community.

2226
01:49:13,500 --> 01:49:15,634
If you think this community is a place

2227
01:49:16,033 --> 01:49:19,500
where we should be ha be policing rather than taking care

2228
01:49:19,500 --> 01:49:22,333
of community policing with our wonderful officers

2229
01:49:22,900 --> 01:49:26,634
and all the people of the community, versus leveraging

2230
01:49:27,100 --> 01:49:30,333
artificial intelligence driven cameras to attempt

2231
01:49:30,433 --> 01:49:33,233
to solve problems that probably don't exist

2232
01:49:33,333 --> 01:49:36,567
or they exist in a very low frequency in this community.

2233
01:49:37,233 --> 01:49:39,100
We're not thinking about this the right way.

2234
01:49:39,433 --> 01:49:42,100
So this is where I'm taking a different tone

2235
01:49:42,033 --> 01:49:46,367
or tenor than I would as a civil libertarian in my past.

2236
01:49:47,266 --> 01:49:48,767
And I'm going

2237
01:49:48,767 --> 01:49:51,333
to take a completely different argument about every single

2238
01:49:51,333 --> 01:49:53,934
family living in this community where you're,

2239
01:49:53,934 --> 01:49:55,500
you may be surveilling our children,

2240
01:49:56,000 --> 01:49:57,700
you're surveilling your neighbors,

2241
01:49:58,100 --> 01:50:00,700
you're surveilling myself, who

2242
01:50:01,867 --> 01:50:05,367
as we think about why you all are here, you are here

2243
01:50:05,467 --> 01:50:07,066
to be stewards of our community.

2244
01:50:07,233 --> 01:50:09,033
And I'm gonna take that moral argument

2245
01:50:09,033 --> 01:50:10,233
and look at each one of you

2246
01:50:10,500 --> 01:50:12,533
and think about how you would feel about that

2247
01:50:12,900 --> 01:50:15,300
with your children, your family and others.

2248
01:50:16,000 --> 01:50:18,066
And then think about, is this the right thing

2249
01:50:18,166 --> 01:50:20,500
for our community to take a look at this?

2250
01:50:20,734 --> 01:50:23,867
'cause this is not going away, this is not going away.

2251
01:50:23,900 --> 01:50:26,066
And you have a choice to either start trying

2252
01:50:26,066 --> 01:50:28,467
to do something, come to a consensus with

2253
01:50:28,467 --> 01:50:29,834
what your constituents want,

2254
01:50:30,000 --> 01:50:32,000
or you can just let other people make the

2255
01:50:32,000 --> 01:50:33,066
rules into technology.

2256
01:50:33,133 --> 01:50:34,066
Run this. I work

2257
01:50:34,066 --> 01:50:36,500
for an extraordinarily large technology firm.

2258
01:50:36,634 --> 01:50:39,467
I work with AI every day. I write AI algorithms.

2259
01:50:40,000 --> 01:50:41,266
I know what this stuff can do.

2260
01:50:41,667 --> 01:50:44,533
And then, unless you all take the time to be deliberate

2261
01:50:44,533 --> 01:50:47,033
and thoughtful about it, we're already behind it.

2262
01:50:47,033 --> 01:50:48,333
We're already chasing it.

2263
01:50:48,634 --> 01:50:50,367
So I would just encourage you to take

2264
01:50:51,033 --> 01:50:53,533
good common sense approach to saying,

2265
01:50:55,100 --> 01:50:56,734
is this solving anything really, truly,

2266
01:50:56,900 --> 01:50:59,734
or are there better ways we can be doing this with our,

2267
01:51:00,066 --> 01:51:02,867
with our police officers, with firefighters,

2268
01:51:02,867 --> 01:51:05,066
with other people in our communities to do it the right way.

2269
01:51:05,433 --> 01:51:06,700
So it's a place that your children,

2270
01:51:06,700 --> 01:51:08,333
your grandchildren, want to grow up in.

2271
01:51:09,500 --> 01:51:11,000
So a little bit different than

2272
01:51:11,033 --> 01:51:12,000
a lot of the other approaches.

2273
01:51:12,266 --> 01:51:14,567
And I'm gonna implore each of you to think about that

2274
01:51:14,567 --> 01:51:19,066
as an individual because it's just

2275
01:51:19,066 --> 01:51:20,467
simply not going away.

2276
01:51:20,467 --> 01:51:24,533
And non-action is simply not an option. Thank you.

2277
01:51:26,166 --> 01:51:26,767
- Thank you.

2278
01:51:35,133 --> 01:51:36,133
That's a good point.

2279
01:51:41,100 --> 01:51:43,100
- Hi everyone, my name is Sarah Henderson.

2280
01:51:43,066 --> 01:51:45,133
I've been a resident of Ferguson Township

2281
01:51:45,233 --> 01:51:46,834
for almost 10 years now.

2282
01:51:47,567 --> 01:51:49,333
I didn't initially plan to speak today,

2283
01:51:49,333 --> 01:51:50,467
so I don't have anything written

2284
01:51:50,500 --> 01:51:52,100
down, so bear with me please.

2285
01:51:53,000 --> 01:51:55,233
But I think everyone who spoke

2286
01:51:55,233 --> 01:51:57,734
before me has touched on a lot of good points.

2287
01:51:57,867 --> 01:52:01,266
So what I wanna say is, as you pointed out, Mr. White,

2288
01:52:01,266 --> 01:52:05,033
there's, there are some common sense uses that have,

2289
01:52:05,000 --> 01:52:07,300
you know, already been used without issues such

2290
01:52:07,300 --> 01:52:09,467
as parking garage and, and law enforcement.

2291
01:52:09,500 --> 01:52:12,266
And I think, you know, none of us wanna inhibit that sort

2292
01:52:12,266 --> 01:52:14,500
of thing or make it harder for law enforcement

2293
01:52:14,500 --> 01:52:15,834
to do, do their job.

2294
01:52:16,233 --> 01:52:18,567
And I'm sorry, I don't remember who said it over here,

2295
01:52:18,667 --> 01:52:21,634
but somebody mentioned that it might not be within the

2296
01:52:22,000 --> 01:52:26,467
township's power to outright ban bees, but,

2297
01:52:27,266 --> 01:52:29,700
and I'm also getting the, the vibe that

2298
01:52:30,233 --> 01:52:32,467
pretty much everybody here has the same concern.

2299
01:52:32,634 --> 01:52:34,066
I mean, we're all essentially neighbors.

2300
01:52:34,266 --> 01:52:36,066
We're all Ferguson Township residents.

2301
01:52:36,467 --> 01:52:39,233
You know, you guys are, are my neighbors and you know,

2302
01:52:40,133 --> 01:52:42,133
and I'm your neighbor and we all have the same concerns.

2303
01:52:42,133 --> 01:52:45,634
We all live here and your hands might be tied on

2304
01:52:45,634 --> 01:52:46,734
certain things, you know, there.

2305
01:52:46,867 --> 01:52:49,100
I understand the Township only has so much power,

2306
01:52:50,100 --> 01:52:51,333
but I wanna encourage

2307
01:52:51,667 --> 01:52:54,767
and plea with all of you who I think, you know,

2308
01:52:55,000 --> 01:52:57,700
pretty much all feel the same way as everyone in this room

2309
01:52:57,900 --> 01:53:00,834
to whatever you can do, please do it.

2310
01:53:01,066 --> 01:53:02,467
I know you might not be able to outright ban,

2311
01:53:02,467 --> 01:53:04,700
but come, I feel like if the Township can tell me

2312
01:53:04,900 --> 01:53:06,333
how tall my grass can be,

2313
01:53:06,767 --> 01:53:09,300
they can probably tell me I can't have an AI powered

2314
01:53:09,300 --> 01:53:11,066
camera watching everybody.

2315
01:53:11,467 --> 01:53:15,533
You know? So push as much as you can.

2316
01:53:15,934 --> 01:53:18,467
You know, if I, I know you said you had faith in,

2317
01:53:18,467 --> 01:53:20,533
in all the staff here, and I think that's wonderful

2318
01:53:20,567 --> 01:53:22,233
and just from, you know,

2319
01:53:22,233 --> 01:53:24,467
everybody here seems like intelligent, caring people

2320
01:53:24,467 --> 01:53:25,700
who care about their community.

2321
01:53:25,700 --> 01:53:28,266
But you've mentioned something about passing a, a resolution

2322
01:53:28,266 --> 01:53:30,500
to agree to not accept a flock

2323
01:53:30,500 --> 01:53:32,233
or other similar company contracts.

2324
01:53:32,333 --> 01:53:33,467
I think that's a great start.

2325
01:53:33,500 --> 01:53:35,500
Even if you don't think it's, it's necessary.

2326
01:53:36,033 --> 01:53:38,834
I just wanna see something. And it will help inspire faith

2327
01:53:38,867 --> 01:53:41,734
in the community that you guys are really here to serve them

2328
01:53:41,734 --> 01:53:44,266
and you're with them on this it, it might not do anything

2329
01:53:44,533 --> 01:53:45,367
'cause maybe you wouldn't have accepted

2330
01:53:45,500 --> 01:53:46,634
a flock contract anyway.

2331
01:53:47,100 --> 01:53:48,700
But hey, it's gonna make everyone in the

2332
01:53:48,700 --> 01:53:49,767
community feel a lot better.

2333
01:53:49,834 --> 01:53:51,033
Like, you know, you're there for them.

2334
01:53:51,433 --> 01:53:53,700
But whatever else you can do, whether it's suing,

2335
01:53:53,700 --> 01:53:56,300
whether it's something else, I just wanna see some action,

2336
01:53:56,567 --> 01:53:58,033
whatever's within your capacity.

2337
01:53:58,467 --> 01:54:00,266
So that's all I've got to say. Thank you guys.

2338
01:54:00,734 --> 01:54:01,100
- Thank you.

2339
01:54:09,000 --> 01:54:12,767
If nobody has anything else, oh, I do. Oh, okay.

2340
01:54:19,500 --> 01:54:21,000
- Renee White in Township.

2341
01:54:21,000 --> 01:54:22,634
Again, I just wanted

2342
01:54:22,634 --> 01:54:25,100
to share my personal experience with APRs.

2343
01:54:27,567 --> 01:54:32,100
Just one day in the mail, I got this fine from York County

2344
01:54:33,233 --> 01:54:37,266
and I, I was never there that day.

2345
01:54:37,500 --> 01:54:40,033
It wasn't my car, it wasn't my license plate,

2346
01:54:40,033 --> 01:54:41,500
it was like one letter off a sheriff

2347
01:54:41,533 --> 01:54:43,066
stamped it, sent it my way.

2348
01:54:43,133 --> 01:54:46,634
Mm. And the onus was on me to not pay that fine

2349
01:54:46,667 --> 01:54:49,500
to defend myself and say that's not my car.

2350
01:54:50,266 --> 01:54:53,634
I wasn't there. As far as I'm aware,

2351
01:54:53,634 --> 01:54:55,100
this wasn't a flock camera

2352
01:54:55,033 --> 01:54:59,000
or anything with high power technology

2353
01:54:59,133 --> 01:55:00,834
and AI and whatever else.

2354
01:55:01,433 --> 01:55:04,333
This was just your standard license plate reader.

2355
01:55:05,166 --> 01:55:08,000
And somebody stamped and approved this and sent it my way

2356
01:55:08,000 --> 01:55:09,333
and then it was my responsibility.

2357
01:55:11,000 --> 01:55:15,634
So just because of that, it makes me think that

2358
01:55:16,100 --> 01:55:19,100
any of these other APRs with more advanced technology,

2359
01:55:19,100 --> 01:55:21,634
getting more things wrong using AI

2360
01:55:23,000 --> 01:55:25,033
is gonna put the onus on a lot of people to try

2361
01:55:25,033 --> 01:55:26,634
to defend themselves against things

2362
01:55:26,634 --> 01:55:28,500
that they're not guilty of.

2363
01:55:30,500 --> 01:55:34,033
So taking that into consideration, there's not much else

2364
01:55:35,100 --> 01:55:37,700
I can say that everybody else hasn't already said.

2365
01:55:38,266 --> 01:55:40,834
Taken into account incompetence

2366
01:55:41,567 --> 01:55:44,000
and abuses of this technology.

2367
01:55:45,567 --> 01:55:50,233
Please do what you can to not have these in our area.

2368
01:55:50,433 --> 01:55:54,333
We don't want these, nobody wants these. Thank you.

2369
01:55:55,033 --> 01:55:56,133
- Thank you. Thank you.

2370
01:56:00,567 --> 01:56:03,066
Say probably one last call for any Public Comment

2371
01:56:03,100 --> 01:56:07,033
and we can re wrap, bring it, bring it back in

2372
01:56:07,133 --> 01:56:08,133
for board discussion.

2373
01:56:09,066 --> 01:56:11,133
Okay. Yeah. We can bring it back to discussion.

2374
01:56:11,433 --> 01:56:12,734
Right. Do you,

2375
01:56:12,867 --> 01:56:15,567
- Okay, so that being said, I mean I feel like

2376
01:56:16,934 --> 01:56:18,367
I'm always against resolutions

2377
01:56:18,533 --> 01:56:20,033
'cause they feel like toothless,

2378
01:56:20,700 --> 01:56:22,867
but hearing what folks have said tonight,

2379
01:56:23,000 --> 01:56:24,634
I'm softening my position on that.

2380
01:56:25,233 --> 01:56:29,333
I am willing to, I am willing to, to entertain

2381
01:56:30,233 --> 01:56:32,567
a, a resolution that encapsulates all the comments

2382
01:56:33,066 --> 01:56:34,066
that were had tonight.

2383
01:56:35,266 --> 01:56:38,367
And I would love to, I don't know the direction,

2384
01:56:38,734 --> 01:56:41,133
but like having an actual sit down with our solicitor,

2385
01:56:41,233 --> 01:56:43,333
maybe be like, I, I don't know, like a work session

2386
01:56:43,433 --> 01:56:46,233
or of some kind so that way we can figure out

2387
01:56:46,266 --> 01:56:47,467
what our avenues are,

2388
01:56:47,834 --> 01:56:49,934
like litigation wise, what that might look like.

2389
01:56:50,700 --> 01:56:54,233
And see if she or anybody else at Babs Calend can come up

2390
01:56:54,533 --> 01:56:56,033
with the legal argument

2391
01:56:57,500 --> 01:57:00,533
that these are in violation of our fourth Amendment rights

2392
01:57:00,567 --> 01:57:02,066
or tell us where we're wrong

2393
01:57:02,066 --> 01:57:03,734
because it doesn't make any sense to me

2394
01:57:03,734 --> 01:57:06,100
how this is not a patent leave a patent violation

2395
01:57:06,100 --> 01:57:07,100
of our fourth amendment rights.

2396
01:57:07,033 --> 01:57:09,033
And so I would love to see our solicitor come

2397
01:57:09,367 --> 01:57:12,634
and show us how we're wrong or how we're right.

2398
01:57:14,066 --> 01:57:16,467
That would be, I think would put a lot

2399
01:57:16,467 --> 01:57:19,133
of folks like minds at ease here knowing

2400
01:57:19,133 --> 01:57:20,467
that we are legally in the right,

2401
01:57:20,500 --> 01:57:22,367
should we choose to sue anybody?

2402
01:57:22,367 --> 01:57:24,467
Should anybody choose to put these in here?

2403
01:57:25,066 --> 01:57:27,000
Should that be the path that we decide to go down?

2404
01:57:27,000 --> 01:57:29,734
And I'm not saying that we should just like unilaterally,

2405
01:57:29,734 --> 01:57:32,767
like okay, giant on Atherton,

2406
01:57:32,834 --> 01:57:34,100
put in flock, like we're gonna sue.

2407
01:57:34,233 --> 01:57:38,033
I would imagine there would be some kind of, you know, like

2408
01:57:38,533 --> 01:57:41,033
discussion before we, we went that way.

2409
01:57:41,033 --> 01:57:44,266
But at at least yeah.

2410
01:57:45,000 --> 01:57:47,533
Being as transparent about this as possible moving forward,

2411
01:57:47,533 --> 01:57:49,934
because a lot of people do feel like this stuff is

2412
01:57:49,934 --> 01:57:51,033
happening behind closed doors.

2413
01:57:51,100 --> 01:57:55,266
So I don't know what the appropriate action would be as far

2414
01:57:55,266 --> 01:57:56,634
as passing the resolution

2415
01:57:56,634 --> 01:57:58,233
or if there's a motion that would need to be made.

2416
01:57:59,433 --> 01:58:02,100
But I'm happy to make a motion and yeah.

2417
01:58:05,100 --> 01:58:08,500
- Hmm. I guess the question would be who, who,

2418
01:58:08,567 --> 01:58:09,867
who would draft the resolution?

2419
01:58:10,533 --> 01:58:11,533
Yeah.

2420
01:58:12,667 --> 01:58:15,467
- That Yeah, I that is a good question. Yeah.

2421
01:58:15,767 --> 01:58:17,367
I have never drafted a resolution before.

2422
01:58:18,266 --> 01:58:20,634
I, I don't know if that would be you.

2423
01:58:20,767 --> 01:58:22,066
- I've, I've drafted resolutions. Okay.

2424
01:58:22,233 --> 01:58:23,300
I just haven't brought 'em forward.

2425
01:58:24,133 --> 01:58:26,066
- Okay. Yeah. I mean if that, if if it's me that has

2426
01:58:26,066 --> 01:58:28,000
to make the resolution Yeah.

2427
01:58:28,734 --> 01:58:31,000
And get it before this board at some time,

2428
01:58:31,100 --> 01:58:32,133
I'm happy to do that.

2429
01:58:32,300 --> 01:58:34,033
I don't like, I know we're entering budget season,

2430
01:58:34,266 --> 01:58:35,767
I don't wanna like overload staff.

2431
01:58:35,867 --> 01:58:38,634
If this is something that I need to do, I will do that.

2432
01:58:38,767 --> 01:58:40,467
I will utilize resources in this community

2433
01:58:40,500 --> 01:58:41,734
to create a resolution

2434
01:58:42,133 --> 01:58:44,000
that encapsulates all the comments from tonight.

2435
01:58:44,567 --> 01:58:46,867
I just don't wanna make any mistakes procedurally.

2436
01:58:46,867 --> 01:58:49,066
And I want to reflect what everybody here has said.

2437
01:58:50,066 --> 01:58:52,934
So I will take guidance on that.

2438
01:58:55,100 --> 01:58:57,000
- Defer to the manager here. Yeah. I

2439
01:58:57,000 --> 01:59:00,700
- Could, I could work with Mr. White if he can at least

2440
01:59:02,066 --> 01:59:03,934
put a framework of the comments this evening

2441
01:59:04,133 --> 01:59:08,000
and then we can get it into resolution form

2442
01:59:08,000 --> 01:59:10,567
and then run it by our solicitor just to make sure

2443
01:59:10,567 --> 01:59:11,834
that we're not overstepping

2444
01:59:11,900 --> 01:59:16,834
or overstating something that we shouldn't be.

2445
01:59:17,000 --> 01:59:18,033
I'd be happy to do that.

2446
01:59:19,033 --> 01:59:21,634
- Yeah, and I was gonna say, even I've,

2447
01:59:21,634 --> 01:59:23,266
I've seen resolutions even

2448
01:59:23,266 --> 01:59:26,233
where they like would encapsulate like even

2449
01:59:27,233 --> 01:59:28,634
Governor Josh Shapiro's remarks

2450
01:59:28,700 --> 01:59:33,100
and even any state legislators that have

2451
01:59:34,033 --> 01:59:35,367
came forward on the matter

2452
01:59:35,467 --> 01:59:39,333
and, you know, voiced their stance.

2453
01:59:40,433 --> 01:59:42,100
- Okay. - Yeah.

2454
01:59:42,166 --> 01:59:45,066
And then once, once it's adopted, like you, you can,

2455
01:59:45,467 --> 01:59:48,533
you know, we can send that to our state representatives

2456
01:59:48,700 --> 01:59:50,533
and to the governor's office

2457
01:59:50,934 --> 01:59:54,333
and you could even, you know,

2458
01:59:54,634 --> 01:59:57,233
take a long shot and send it over to Washington

2459
01:59:57,333 --> 01:59:58,367
and be like, Hey, we gotta do that.

2460
01:59:58,734 --> 02:00:02,500
It's a Township, this is where we stand on it. So

2461
02:00:02,634 --> 02:00:03,634
- Yeah.

2462
02:00:03,634 --> 02:00:04,700
Okay. Yeah. Well I will, I'll happily

2463
02:00:06,066 --> 02:00:07,066
it's getting a little late, so

2464
02:00:07,066 --> 02:00:09,634
how about I email you tomorrow morning if that works? You

2465
02:00:09,634 --> 02:00:10,634
- Set time to sit down?

2466
02:00:11,066 --> 02:00:14,000
- Absolutely. Yeah. - Alright. Alright.

2467
02:00:16,500 --> 02:00:19,333
- I was gonna say maybe anyone else?

2468
02:00:20,133 --> 02:00:23,133
No, trying to think. Should we, Mr. Patterson? Mr.

2469
02:00:23,133 --> 02:00:24,133
Patterson?

2470
02:00:26,100 --> 02:00:27,634
- Yeah. I just wanna make sure we're not

2471
02:00:27,634 --> 02:00:28,767
doing anything performative here.

2472
02:00:29,000 --> 02:00:31,100
If, if there's an actual action that we can take

2473
02:00:31,433 --> 02:00:32,767
and let's take that action,

2474
02:00:32,900 --> 02:00:35,033
but just simply writing down words on paper

2475
02:00:35,000 --> 02:00:38,133
and saying we resolved to for words.

2476
02:00:38,500 --> 02:00:40,000
I, I, I'm just not in favor of that.

2477
02:00:40,133 --> 02:00:44,300
So just, I, I do want to do whatever's kind of within our

2478
02:00:45,100 --> 02:00:47,500
scope and purview to say, hey, here's, here's what we

2479
02:00:50,133 --> 02:00:52,700
would like to happen in our, in our town and what

2480
02:00:52,700 --> 02:00:55,500
and what, what can we could do about it.

2481
02:00:55,700 --> 02:00:58,266
I'd like to, I'm with, I think whoever said it earlier,

2482
02:00:58,300 --> 02:01:01,000
let's go with the solicitor and just understand what we can

2483
02:01:01,000 --> 02:01:03,300
and cannot do and then just execute from there over

2484
02:01:05,100 --> 02:01:06,033
- See what you're saying Ari?

2485
02:01:08,700 --> 02:01:12,533
So it kind of sounds like we're maybe approaching,

2486
02:01:13,266 --> 02:01:15,133
needing to do a little bit of homework on this,

2487
02:01:16,100 --> 02:01:20,667
but it sounds like also bringing it back for, you know,

2488
02:01:20,900 --> 02:01:25,734
a menu of options but also having a fully drafted

2489
02:01:26,066 --> 02:01:28,033
resolution to move forward.

2490
02:01:28,900 --> 02:01:30,834
- Okay. Yeah, - I can do that.

2491
02:01:32,066 --> 02:01:35,066
- So I think with that one I would,

2492
02:01:35,533 --> 02:01:36,834
would entertain a motion,

2493
02:01:40,667 --> 02:01:43,233
I'm trying to think 'cause we didn't necessarily,

2494
02:01:44,000 --> 02:01:48,233
- So, so I have direction I'd be happy to put it on a future

2495
02:01:49,734 --> 02:01:53,100
agenda for discussion of a resolution

2496
02:01:53,100 --> 02:01:56,367
and then at the following one, if the board is happy,

2497
02:01:57,100 --> 02:02:01,767
we can bring it back to the following agenda for approval.

2498
02:02:03,066 --> 02:02:04,333
- Okay. Yeah, just we've

2499
02:02:04,567 --> 02:02:05,934
captured comments, we bring 'em back.

2500
02:02:06,000 --> 02:02:07,100
Okay. Yeah,

2501
02:02:08,066 --> 02:02:10,767
because again, still not necessarily taking action

2502
02:02:10,767 --> 02:02:14,100
but you know, just kind of doing some research on it,

2503
02:02:14,166 --> 02:02:15,834
you know, before the action, so.

2504
02:02:16,634 --> 02:02:20,100
Okay. Alright. Anything else? Nope,

2505
02:02:20,467 --> 02:02:21,333
- I'm all good. Okay.

2506
02:02:22,100 --> 02:02:24,734
- Thank you so - Much. Yes, thank you everyone for your

2507
02:02:25,634 --> 02:02:27,133
remarks and participation.

2508
02:02:30,533 --> 02:02:32,900
Let's see, so automated license plate readers,

2509
02:02:35,000 --> 02:02:37,700
and then the last item in new business will be a resolution

2510
02:02:37,700 --> 02:02:39,867
Township of Ferguson Centre County, Pennsylvania,

2511
02:02:39,867 --> 02:02:41,900
supporting the Pennsylvania municipal league

2512
02:02:42,333 --> 02:02:45,700
PML in expanding the definition of earned income tax.

2513
02:02:46,567 --> 02:02:50,166
And I don't know if the manager has more on this

2514
02:02:50,233 --> 02:02:51,934
or if this is Mr.

2515
02:02:52,000 --> 02:02:54,433
Patterson's. I know Mr.

2516
02:02:54,467 --> 02:02:58,066
Patterson has been a strong advocate for

2517
02:02:58,567 --> 02:03:02,100
us on this matter, so whoever wants to open up

2518
02:03:03,133 --> 02:03:04,700
- So moved. Oh, I'm

2519
02:03:04,700 --> 02:03:05,700
- Sorry.

2520
02:03:05,700 --> 02:03:07,133
Yeah, I can open up. I mean, at the end of the day this is,

2521
02:03:07,867 --> 02:03:10,900
this is a kind of formalization of our,

2522
02:03:11,500 --> 02:03:13,734
the things we've already done thus far, which is, hey,

2523
02:03:13,734 --> 02:03:16,667
this is what we as a board, you know, kind of endorse,

2524
02:03:18,033 --> 02:03:19,934
doesn't matter how strongly we just endorse it.

2525
02:03:19,934 --> 02:03:22,000
So this is kind of the formalization of

2526
02:03:22,000 --> 02:03:23,066
that endorsement over,

2527
02:03:24,000 --> 02:03:25,000
- Yep.

2528
02:03:26,266 --> 02:03:27,700
Yes, Mr. Hallard. Oh,

2529
02:03:27,700 --> 02:03:29,900
- I was just going to say, if we are ready for the,

2530
02:03:30,033 --> 02:03:32,133
you know, the motion, I would ask if Mr.

2531
02:03:32,533 --> 02:03:36,867
Patterson would deliver it, but I go, I'm

2532
02:03:36,867 --> 02:03:37,867
- Ready for it.

2533
02:03:37,867 --> 02:03:40,066
Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm good to and ready for the motion

2534
02:03:44,266 --> 02:03:45,367
- I move to adopt the resolution.

2535
02:03:46,467 --> 02:03:49,867
- And do we have a second? - This is Matt. I'll second

2536
02:03:50,066 --> 02:03:51,066
- Got a motion by Mr.

2537
02:03:51,066 --> 02:03:52,634
Patterson, second by Mr. Heller.

2538
02:03:53,000 --> 02:03:55,133
Any discussion on this? Yes, Mr. White. Yeah.

2539
02:03:55,133 --> 02:03:55,734
- I'm gonna be a little bit

2540
02:03:55,734 --> 02:03:57,166
intentionally facetious here, Mr.

2541
02:03:57,166 --> 02:03:59,867
Patterson, regarding your comments on the

2542
02:04:00,066 --> 02:04:01,033
resolution from the previous matter.

2543
02:04:02,066 --> 02:04:04,900
How is this not just words on paper, over

2544
02:04:05,133 --> 02:04:07,066
- It's words on paper for an action?

2545
02:04:07,066 --> 02:04:09,100
The action is, and so I will just,

2546
02:04:09,734 --> 02:04:11,000
I think we talked about this months ago.

2547
02:04:11,000 --> 02:04:13,100
So I think for the purposes of the people

2548
02:04:13,100 --> 02:04:17,133
that have never seen this topic, we,

2549
02:04:17,767 --> 02:04:21,033
those words say what we are in favor of the state changing.

2550
02:04:21,133 --> 02:04:23,000
The state needs to change their laws

2551
02:04:23,500 --> 02:04:26,500
to give local municipalities more flexibility.

2552
02:04:27,333 --> 02:04:29,100
The state needs to take action

2553
02:04:29,100 --> 02:04:30,266
and this is the action we want

2554
02:04:30,266 --> 02:04:31,500
to take, this the state to take.

2555
02:04:32,000 --> 02:04:33,900
So we are requesting, and,

2556
02:04:33,934 --> 02:04:36,500
and so we as a single municipality cannot go

2557
02:04:36,500 --> 02:04:38,266
to the 400 legislators

2558
02:04:38,266 --> 02:04:40,100
or whatever number of legislators are, are in,

2559
02:04:40,100 --> 02:04:43,533
in the State house and ask them as a single entity,

2560
02:04:44,066 --> 02:04:47,533
we need a larger body like a PML, like a PSATs,

2561
02:04:47,533 --> 02:04:51,066
like a whatever to do that with us, you know, to say, hey,

2562
02:04:51,066 --> 02:04:53,634
there's 2000 townships that want this to happen.

2563
02:04:54,166 --> 02:04:56,333
And, and then we can get more movement there.

2564
02:04:56,367 --> 02:04:58,767
So this is a one step in a larger process.

2565
02:04:59,000 --> 02:05:00,367
It's taken me a long time to figure out

2566
02:05:00,634 --> 02:05:03,533
what the next step is, but this is a necessary step over.

2567
02:05:04,700 --> 02:05:06,033
- Thank you. And like I said, I'm being

2568
02:05:06,033 --> 02:05:07,266
intentionally facetious with that.

2569
02:05:07,467 --> 02:05:09,700
I, I I understand that there's a larger strategic direction

2570
02:05:09,700 --> 02:05:12,634
with this resolution, so I will leave it at that.

2571
02:05:14,567 --> 02:05:16,266
- No, I thought it was perfect. I appreciate your

2572
02:05:16,266 --> 02:05:17,367
facetiousness and,

2573
02:05:17,467 --> 02:05:20,300
and I, I, I took it wholeheartedly as an opportunity

2574
02:05:20,300 --> 02:05:22,066
to explain the situation for those

2575
02:05:22,066 --> 02:05:23,767
that have not seen this in the past over

2576
02:05:25,333 --> 02:05:30,133
- And this, and this is in the PML

2577
02:05:31,133 --> 02:05:33,734
resolutions packet, which will be voted on

2578
02:05:34,834 --> 02:05:37,867
during the resolutions committee meeting on October 1st,

2579
02:05:38,100 --> 02:05:41,500
and then the following Friday at the

2580
02:05:42,033 --> 02:05:44,000
leadership summit in Hershey.

2581
02:05:46,066 --> 02:05:47,033
I will defer to the manager

2582
02:05:47,867 --> 02:05:48,867
- Y Yes.

2583
02:05:48,867 --> 02:05:51,767
So in regards to those things coming in front for vote

2584
02:05:51,834 --> 02:05:55,033
for PML, you will be seeing it at the

2585
02:05:55,734 --> 02:05:58,367
first October board meeting to vote on it to

2586
02:06:00,634 --> 02:06:02,867
allow your PML representatives to vote

2587
02:06:02,867 --> 02:06:04,767
accordingly at that meeting.

2588
02:06:05,900 --> 02:06:09,233
So, alright. Alright.

2589
02:06:10,233 --> 02:06:12,734
- If the board has nothing further, I'd

2590
02:06:13,266 --> 02:06:14,567
recognize the manager to call the role.

2591
02:06:16,000 --> 02:06:17,734
- Okay. Mr.

2592
02:06:20,066 --> 02:06:24,100
Let's just do Mr. Thompson. Yes. Mr. Patterson?

2593
02:06:25,300 --> 02:06:26,300
Nope.

2594
02:06:28,433 --> 02:06:33,266
- Yes. - Okay. Mr. Heller? Yes. Mr. White?

2595
02:06:33,567 --> 02:06:35,000
Yes. Ms. Davids? Yes.

2596
02:06:38,266 --> 02:06:40,700
- Alright. Motion passed. Motion passes.

2597
02:06:41,000 --> 02:06:42,734
So we will move on to our Centre Region Council

2598
02:06:42,734 --> 02:06:43,767
government reports.

2599
02:06:44,166 --> 02:06:45,834
We'll start with the Parks

2600
02:06:45,834 --> 02:06:47,767
of Recreation special governance committee.

2601
02:06:47,867 --> 02:06:49,367
And I'll recognize Ms. Stephens

2602
02:06:50,667 --> 02:06:54,133
- Basically just looking at the maintenance agreement

2603
02:06:54,333 --> 02:06:55,867
that was in the agenda packet

2604
02:06:56,000 --> 02:06:58,100
and any comments to forward

2605
02:06:58,867 --> 02:07:01,567
to COG with that?

2606
02:07:02,834 --> 02:07:05,467
I, I think we had a communications to the board

2607
02:07:05,867 --> 02:07:07,033
that sort of touched on Yes.

2608
02:07:07,166 --> 02:07:08,834
On some of the, the problems.

2609
02:07:09,467 --> 02:07:13,367
And I, and I will say that that's one of the things we,

2610
02:07:15,000 --> 02:07:19,467
in discussing this COG and their staff for parks

2611
02:07:19,467 --> 02:07:23,500
and maintaining the parks has the same issue

2612
02:07:23,500 --> 02:07:26,767
that we have here, is that the work is growing

2613
02:07:27,166 --> 02:07:30,066
and it's harder and harder to find people.

2614
02:07:31,100 --> 02:07:36,033
So anyway, they're just trying to put into writing

2615
02:07:36,333 --> 02:07:37,567
what they're currently doing.

2616
02:07:39,433 --> 02:07:42,033
And again, I'll, I'll go back to, this is really more

2617
02:07:42,033 --> 02:07:45,100
of an operational thing between and

2618
02:07:45,033 --> 02:07:47,367
and our staff,

2619
02:07:47,500 --> 02:07:49,634
but if there's any comments you add about those,

2620
02:07:50,500 --> 02:07:53,100
we could forward those on the committee.

2621
02:07:54,033 --> 02:07:56,634
Otherwise this will go through the committee

2622
02:07:56,734 --> 02:07:58,533
and then onto the general forum again,

2623
02:08:02,433 --> 02:08:06,767
if anyone has any comments, anything, yes, Mr. Heller?

2624
02:08:07,000 --> 02:08:09,066
- I think generally, because this did come up in one

2625
02:08:09,066 --> 02:08:14,033
of our budget hearings a couple days ago, is I kind of,

2626
02:08:14,000 --> 02:08:17,033
I learned that the Parks Authority,

2627
02:08:17,367 --> 02:08:19,233
well not the Parks Authority, lemme not say that,

2628
02:08:19,634 --> 02:08:21,066
but that if a municipality,

2629
02:08:21,100 --> 02:08:23,567
and I'll speak very generally here, puts a park up tomorrow,

2630
02:08:24,734 --> 02:08:26,934
all of a sudden COG is

2631
02:08:27,166 --> 02:08:28,867
responsible for the maintenance of that park.

2632
02:08:29,100 --> 02:08:33,000
Yes. That's kind of, I don't know if I like that.

2633
02:08:33,133 --> 02:08:35,333
Let me just say it that way because I,

2634
02:08:35,900 --> 02:08:37,300
we already see them overburdened,

2635
02:08:37,300 --> 02:08:39,734
we see them working in a hundred different things

2636
02:08:39,734 --> 02:08:42,000
and I've heard multiple times, well yeah,

2637
02:08:42,000 --> 02:08:44,634
because that Township did that, now we have

2638
02:08:44,634 --> 02:08:46,100
to send resources over there

2639
02:08:46,166 --> 02:08:47,567
and somebody's gotta pay for it.

2640
02:08:47,834 --> 02:08:50,000
And that's a, again, encapsulating that.

2641
02:08:50,367 --> 02:08:52,133
So I think there's a larger conversation.

2642
02:08:52,233 --> 02:08:53,700
Why I'm saying this is,

2643
02:08:53,834 --> 02:08:56,100
I think there's a larger conversation that has to happen

2644
02:08:56,100 --> 02:08:59,066
between the parks authority, governance, finance,

2645
02:08:59,834 --> 02:09:01,500
COG in general about

2646
02:09:01,533 --> 02:09:03,533
what we're really doing in the parks and recs space.

2647
02:09:03,533 --> 02:09:05,834
And one of the things that I offered to the folks is

2648
02:09:05,834 --> 02:09:07,533
that my commitment to try

2649
02:09:07,767 --> 02:09:10,100
and rightsize what do they need to do

2650
02:09:10,133 --> 02:09:11,467
to rightsize these things.

2651
02:09:12,100 --> 02:09:13,467
And maybe it's programs,

2652
02:09:13,467 --> 02:09:15,867
maybe it's having different agreements.

2653
02:09:16,367 --> 02:09:20,634
So I'm concerned about this from a very general standpoint

2654
02:09:20,634 --> 02:09:23,066
because I don't like that other municipalities,

2655
02:09:23,100 --> 02:09:25,233
even Ferguson, can all of a sudden now

2656
02:09:26,100 --> 02:09:28,700
demand resources from a central agency

2657
02:09:28,700 --> 02:09:31,000
because of the decision that was made within the mu within

2658
02:09:31,000 --> 02:09:32,567
the municipality unilaterally.

2659
02:09:32,867 --> 02:09:34,033
That's a concern. At least that's

2660
02:09:34,033 --> 02:09:35,266
what I took away from the conversation

2661
02:09:35,266 --> 02:09:37,300
and I still have more investigation to do,

2662
02:09:37,700 --> 02:09:39,000
but that, that was hot off the press

2663
02:09:39,000 --> 02:09:40,066
in my interpretation of it.

2664
02:09:40,133 --> 02:09:42,133
So generally speaking I think there's more to come

2665
02:09:42,900 --> 02:09:44,066
in this conversation

2666
02:09:44,333 --> 02:09:46,500
and I look forward to the conversations as they do,

2667
02:09:46,500 --> 02:09:47,934
but as this is written, I have no

2668
02:09:47,934 --> 02:09:48,934
- Issue.

2669
02:09:48,934 --> 02:09:49,266
Right. And that was sort

2670
02:09:49,266 --> 02:09:52,033
of the par accepting parks policy, right.

2671
02:09:52,033 --> 02:09:55,834
Accepting in like what we are willing to accept in,

2672
02:09:55,834 --> 02:09:57,834
in the process to go through that so

2673
02:09:57,834 --> 02:10:00,533
that we don't in fact have situations like that

2674
02:10:01,266 --> 02:10:02,934
- Because yeah, we heard about them

2675
02:10:02,934 --> 02:10:04,467
and I'm just going, oh my gosh.

2676
02:10:05,066 --> 02:10:07,700
- Yeah. Okay. It's, it's, there are so many layers.

2677
02:10:08,033 --> 02:10:09,367
It's been very, very complicated.

2678
02:10:09,467 --> 02:10:12,867
And this is basically just trying to get into writing

2679
02:10:13,133 --> 02:10:14,567
what has been in practice

2680
02:10:14,634 --> 02:10:18,133
and there was some suggested level of service in terms

2681
02:10:18,133 --> 02:10:21,700
of park maintenance and that sort of got erased just

2682
02:10:21,934 --> 02:10:24,100
to get this document together. I

2683
02:10:24,100 --> 02:10:25,100
- Get it, I get it.

2684
02:10:25,100 --> 02:10:26,634
So more to follow

2685
02:10:26,700 --> 02:10:29,066
and I'm happy to help Patty wherever anything's needed.

2686
02:10:29,166 --> 02:10:33,000
- Of course. Thank you. Yes. Right. So no comments?

2687
02:10:33,000 --> 02:10:37,100
Comments then to go back about this or? No. Okay. Thank you.

2688
02:10:38,033 --> 02:10:38,567
- No problem.

2689
02:10:44,066 --> 02:10:47,100
The next item would be a finance committee.

2690
02:10:48,066 --> 02:10:52,033
And I would recognize Matt as well as even

2691
02:10:53,367 --> 02:10:56,066
Todd who has been sitting through,

2692
02:10:56,500 --> 02:10:58,900
what are we on now? Oh, Ron,

2693
02:10:59,266 --> 02:11:00,734
- You finish number three. That was

2694
02:11:00,734 --> 02:11:03,900
- 3, 6, 12, 9, 11 - Hours of in-person.

2695
02:11:04,767 --> 02:11:07,300
Anyway, so we did our third budget hearing.

2696
02:11:07,333 --> 02:11:09,033
There is no formal report, I apologize.

2697
02:11:09,100 --> 02:11:11,867
This is just, and during budget workshops,

2698
02:11:11,867 --> 02:11:13,066
it's too many things flying around.

2699
02:11:13,634 --> 02:11:17,033
So the big takeaway right now is we should anticipate likely

2700
02:11:17,066 --> 02:11:21,266
between a six to 11% increase of the COG budget

2701
02:11:22,367 --> 02:11:24,667
from our Ferguson Township should

2702
02:11:24,667 --> 02:11:26,166
anticipate that sort of number.

2703
02:11:27,033 --> 02:11:29,667
The numbers we are looking at

2704
02:11:30,166 --> 02:11:35,133
baseline today are just about 5.95% increase for Ferguson.

2705
02:11:35,133 --> 02:11:38,467
That does not include the SIG C items, the strategic guide

2706
02:11:38,500 --> 02:11:40,867
to services and investments, which will,

2707
02:11:41,033 --> 02:11:43,767
we will be addressing on Thursday.

2708
02:11:44,500 --> 02:11:47,867
So right now we're sitting at about a 6%

2709
02:11:48,033 --> 02:11:49,734
that does not include the 60 items

2710
02:11:50,634 --> 02:11:52,367
and I anticipate some cuts

2711
02:11:53,033 --> 02:11:56,367
from the executive director in COG before that gets to us.

2712
02:11:56,634 --> 02:11:59,667
So I don't think it's gonna be anywhere near that 11%,

2713
02:11:59,734 --> 02:12:01,166
but it will be north of 6%.

2714
02:12:03,000 --> 02:12:07,367
I'll offer this, once the video is available from today's

2715
02:12:08,100 --> 02:12:10,000
budget workshop, I invite everybody

2716
02:12:10,033 --> 02:12:13,033
and those online to, to go ahead

2717
02:12:13,033 --> 02:12:15,000
and look at the first 30 minutes of that meeting.

2718
02:12:16,066 --> 02:12:18,767
Look at it on double times, only spend 15 minutes

2719
02:12:19,100 --> 02:12:20,000
because you'll hear a,

2720
02:12:20,066 --> 02:12:23,433
a rather good explanation from the executive director as

2721
02:12:23,433 --> 02:12:26,100
to why municipal shares have gone up.

2722
02:12:26,533 --> 02:12:27,867
Although the overall budget

2723
02:12:28,000 --> 02:12:30,066
for COG is actually on the decline,

2724
02:12:31,300 --> 02:12:32,667
that doesn't make a lot of sense.

2725
02:12:32,867 --> 02:12:36,133
But I think when you see, and when you hear his explanation

2726
02:12:36,033 --> 02:12:37,467
and the questions that myself

2727
02:12:37,467 --> 02:12:40,066
and others were asking, it does shed a light on that.

2728
02:12:40,667 --> 02:12:42,066
So I encourage everybody

2729
02:12:42,634 --> 02:12:45,166
before our budget hearing, either in,

2730
02:12:45,166 --> 02:12:47,000
before the budget for COG

2731
02:12:47,000 --> 02:12:49,066
or anything that we do here to on double time,

2732
02:12:49,066 --> 02:12:50,634
maybe just spend that 15 minutes

2733
02:12:50,767 --> 02:12:52,133
and listen to what was said there

2734
02:12:52,133 --> 02:12:54,500
because it does encapsulate so many more things

2735
02:12:55,100 --> 02:12:56,934
than I could ever touch on here.

2736
02:12:57,100 --> 02:12:59,166
Yeah. So that's what we're looking at.

2737
02:12:59,367 --> 02:13:01,033
I'm happy to field any questions.

2738
02:13:01,133 --> 02:13:04,033
Of course, because it is budget season as we heard already.

2739
02:13:06,033 --> 02:13:08,467
COG will be in front. I'll be gathering more information

2740
02:13:08,734 --> 02:13:11,266
from everybody here on SIG C and other things between now

2741
02:13:11,266 --> 02:13:13,233
and the end of the year or when we get to passing

2742
02:13:13,500 --> 02:13:15,367
or moving the budget forward at COG.

2743
02:13:15,567 --> 02:13:18,300
So I look forward to additional conversations in that space.

2744
02:13:18,834 --> 02:13:19,834
Yeah,

2745
02:13:21,767 --> 02:13:24,300
- And and I was watching through

2746
02:13:24,934 --> 02:13:26,900
those hearings and I'm

2747
02:13:26,900 --> 02:13:27,900
- Sorry.

2748
02:13:27,900 --> 02:13:31,867
- Yeah, it, and again, we're up to like hour 11 of,

2749
02:13:32,266 --> 02:13:36,133
you know, just talking about the budget for the council

2750
02:13:36,233 --> 02:13:39,367
of governments and I think Matt

2751
02:13:39,700 --> 02:13:44,300
and others have brought up good questions to bring context

2752
02:13:44,667 --> 02:13:48,367
and I think as you're, as you're hearing those, like yeah,

2753
02:13:48,367 --> 02:13:52,066
if you just look at the budget overall, yeah, it's,

2754
02:13:52,066 --> 02:13:53,233
it's a big number.

2755
02:13:53,333 --> 02:13:55,033
It's a lot of numbers, but you know,

2756
02:13:55,767 --> 02:13:59,100
when you get the context it really makes a lot of sense

2757
02:13:59,433 --> 02:14:04,233
and yeah, I dunno

2758
02:14:04,233 --> 02:14:07,100
what our, but our own Township budget's gonna look like

2759
02:14:07,867 --> 02:14:09,100
because I, you know,

2760
02:14:09,100 --> 02:14:11,500
even hearing some crazy numbers on healthcare,

2761
02:14:14,367 --> 02:14:16,734
- I healthcare, and you'll hear me straight in the budget

2762
02:14:16,734 --> 02:14:19,700
here, we're getting hit from all sides my day job.

2763
02:14:19,867 --> 02:14:21,834
Yep. You're at the Township here

2764
02:14:21,934 --> 02:14:25,000
and COG, everybody's getting hit and right.

2765
02:14:25,567 --> 02:14:27,367
It, I even had a conversation

2766
02:14:27,367 --> 02:14:29,533
with a couple folks in the medical profession

2767
02:14:30,000 --> 02:14:32,834
and you would think the affluent side of the house doctors

2768
02:14:33,000 --> 02:14:34,066
and others that don't have,

2769
02:14:34,333 --> 02:14:35,533
that won't feel this pain

2770
02:14:35,533 --> 02:14:36,700
from healthcare and everything else.

2771
02:14:37,033 --> 02:14:38,033
They're feeling it too.

2772
02:14:38,066 --> 02:14:40,233
Yeah, everybody is, and it is garbage

2773
02:14:40,266 --> 02:14:42,300
and I will reserve my comments and leave it there.

2774
02:14:43,266 --> 02:14:46,700
- Yeah, I've been just thinking about my

2775
02:14:46,700 --> 02:14:48,066
overall healthcare costs.

2776
02:14:48,100 --> 02:14:50,066
Like I, you know, between my wife

2777
02:14:50,066 --> 02:14:53,100
and I, yeah, we pay a few thousand dollars a year in

2778
02:14:53,233 --> 02:14:58,066
premiums, but when you look at what my employer sponsors,

2779
02:14:58,300 --> 02:15:01,033
it's like tens of thousands of dollars

2780
02:15:01,500 --> 02:15:06,133
and it, you, you, you, it's just staggering.

2781
02:15:06,233 --> 02:15:10,533
You know how, you know, just for two people, you know, tens

2782
02:15:10,533 --> 02:15:14,300
of thousands of dollars, but some people have heard

2783
02:15:14,300 --> 02:15:17,767
of increase, like I think the COG healthcare increase this

2784
02:15:17,767 --> 02:15:19,266
year is like 10, 10%,

2785
02:15:19,333 --> 02:15:20,734
but there's some that are going

2786
02:15:22,367 --> 02:15:26,634
probably close 20 if not over 20% higher from last year.

2787
02:15:26,734 --> 02:15:30,767
And just, just, I just stop

2788
02:15:30,767 --> 02:15:33,367
and wonder if it will eventually just catch up with itself.

2789
02:15:33,767 --> 02:15:37,233
I like, like we could, we could go down the rabbit hole,

2790
02:15:37,266 --> 02:15:40,100
gas prices and everything else, you know, I, but

2791
02:15:40,567 --> 02:15:41,767
- I'm sorry Mr. Chair, I

2792
02:15:41,767 --> 02:15:42,767
- Apologize.

2793
02:15:42,767 --> 02:15:46,567
Yeah. Interrupted. But I, I think, you know,

2794
02:15:47,533 --> 02:15:51,033
we're making the best of, you know, we can

2795
02:15:54,000 --> 02:15:57,567
can't ignore inflation rising cost.

2796
02:15:57,700 --> 02:16:02,133
You gotta continue to keep things going somehow.

2797
02:16:02,567 --> 02:16:05,734
So we, we got a lot of hard decisions this year. Yes.

2798
02:16:08,233 --> 02:16:10,100
- And I will just say this too,

2799
02:16:10,033 --> 02:16:12,133
because I just happened

2800
02:16:12,133 --> 02:16:13,734
to be involved in healthcare decisions

2801
02:16:13,900 --> 02:16:17,233
and it is one of those situations too where this year's bad

2802
02:16:18,500 --> 02:16:20,934
next year's projected to be just as bad if not worse.

2803
02:16:21,934 --> 02:16:26,000
So I I have no good news unfortunately in that space.

2804
02:16:27,867 --> 02:16:29,033
Other than that Mrs. Lincoln,

2805
02:16:29,233 --> 02:16:30,233
- How was the play?

2806
02:16:32,066 --> 02:16:35,300
Sorry, but yeah, any questions?

2807
02:16:38,066 --> 02:16:41,066
I was gonna say anything else for Matt? You'll

2808
02:16:41,300 --> 02:16:42,300
- Thank you.

2809
02:16:42,300 --> 02:16:43,100
Just thank you. Yeah. Oh,

2810
02:16:43,000 --> 02:16:44,000
- No problem.

2811
02:16:44,000 --> 02:16:47,100
Thank you. You'll, you'll wrap up budget hearings on

2812
02:16:47,533 --> 02:16:50,767
Thursday and then next Tuesday at General forum

2813
02:16:51,333 --> 02:16:54,767
I will have the blessing of taking, taking the budget packet

2814
02:16:55,000 --> 02:16:57,333
and forwarding it to the general forum.

2815
02:16:58,033 --> 02:17:00,100
I was gonna say next, not next Tuesday at General forum,

2816
02:17:00,500 --> 02:17:02,934
well next, next Tuesday is executive committee

2817
02:17:02,934 --> 02:17:04,867
and then, yeah, don't do that to me.

2818
02:17:08,934 --> 02:17:10,734
So yeah, it goes through the executive committee

2819
02:17:10,900 --> 02:17:13,033
and then the general forum at the end of the month,

2820
02:17:13,166 --> 02:17:14,500
so, alright.

2821
02:17:15,000 --> 02:17:16,500
Any communications to the board?

2822
02:17:18,066 --> 02:17:21,333
- I had a communication regarding some parks

2823
02:17:21,567 --> 02:17:25,367
and some rental units in the neighborhood.

2824
02:17:28,033 --> 02:17:30,000
- I had lots of communications. Oh, okay.

2825
02:17:30,867 --> 02:17:33,467
So obviously regarding bioswales and, and flock cameras,

2826
02:17:34,000 --> 02:17:37,266
but also potentially unsafe living conditions

2827
02:17:37,867 --> 02:17:39,934
for tenants within the West College neighborhood district.

2828
02:17:41,100 --> 02:17:42,867
I'll follow up with some folks after that,

2829
02:17:43,667 --> 02:17:46,033
but I, I had a conversation with someone today regarding,

2830
02:17:46,033 --> 02:17:47,700
like I said, what,

2831
02:17:47,700 --> 02:17:50,500
what sounded like pretty unsafe living conditions And so

2832
02:17:51,100 --> 02:17:54,300
yeah, definitely wanna see what, if there is something

2833
02:17:54,300 --> 02:17:57,033
that we can do about that or you know, the, the right kind

2834
02:17:57,033 --> 02:17:59,500
of party to direct this person to and, and all that stuff.

2835
02:18:01,367 --> 02:18:05,367
- I think comment - I I'll say, so communications

2836
02:18:05,367 --> 02:18:07,266
to the board is where we just like, are like

2837
02:18:07,266 --> 02:18:11,000
who has told us stuff and so, okay.

2838
02:18:11,000 --> 02:18:14,100
Yeah. And we can talk afterwards and then, you know,

2839
02:18:14,233 --> 02:18:16,033
or we could, you know, have the Public Comment at the next

2840
02:18:16,033 --> 02:18:19,100
meeting or I can, you know, bring up communications

2841
02:18:19,100 --> 02:18:20,634
to the board at the next we can talk.

2842
02:18:21,000 --> 02:18:23,734
So anyway, sorry.

2843
02:18:24,533 --> 02:18:26,000
Yeah, so West College neighborhood

2844
02:18:26,100 --> 02:18:28,567
district, blah, blah, blah.

2845
02:18:28,734 --> 02:18:31,333
Also, I guess I, I don't, I didn't know the right place

2846
02:18:31,333 --> 02:18:33,533
to put this, but did we receive any update

2847
02:18:33,533 --> 02:18:35,100
regarding the PRC five case certificate

2848
02:18:35,100 --> 02:18:36,500
of insurance and CRPR permit?

2849
02:18:37,834 --> 02:18:38,834
Did they ever get those?

2850
02:18:41,266 --> 02:18:42,500
- I'll have to get - Back to them. Okay.

2851
02:18:42,634 --> 02:18:44,467
'cause the 5K is on the 19th, which is

2852
02:18:45,533 --> 02:18:47,233
- This - Saturday, this week, this Saturday.

2853
02:18:48,000 --> 02:18:51,100
So I don't know if they submitted those things, but anyway.

2854
02:18:52,266 --> 02:18:53,734
And then if we had time,

2855
02:18:54,734 --> 02:18:56,634
a resident from the Rock Spring Water Company

2856
02:18:58,066 --> 02:19:00,133
gave me a mailer that they received

2857
02:19:00,567 --> 02:19:02,066
and wanted it read into the record.

2858
02:19:02,700 --> 02:19:03,734
I'm happy to read it

2859
02:19:03,934 --> 02:19:05,367
or if there is another mechanism

2860
02:19:05,834 --> 02:19:06,934
to get this into the record.

2861
02:19:08,333 --> 02:19:09,333
Yeah,

2862
02:19:10,734 --> 02:19:11,734
- I've had one of those before.

2863
02:19:11,734 --> 02:19:13,033
I'd be happy to enter it into the work

2864
02:19:13,033 --> 02:19:14,033
- Packet.

2865
02:19:14,033 --> 02:19:17,533
Yeah, okay. I have that as well. Oh, okay. All right.

2866
02:19:18,166 --> 02:19:19,734
Do you want me to read it or can we

2867
02:19:20,066 --> 02:19:21,100
just entering it into the podcast?

2868
02:19:21,000 --> 02:19:23,333
You just enter it into the record. Okey dokey. All right.

2869
02:19:23,900 --> 02:19:26,767
Yeah, I'll say it was mildly concerning. So,

2870
02:19:27,433 --> 02:19:28,567
- And that is what I - Had.

2871
02:19:29,100 --> 02:19:30,100
Okay.

2872
02:19:30,700 --> 02:19:32,467
- I had communications regarding the parks

2873
02:19:32,667 --> 02:19:34,100
and overgrown vegetation.

2874
02:19:37,100 --> 02:19:40,266
- Okay. Mr. Patterson, did you have anything

2875
02:19:44,667 --> 02:19:47,033
- Condolences to the young man that passed away

2876
02:19:47,567 --> 02:19:51,233
from the accident?

2877
02:19:51,233 --> 02:19:53,100
Hopefully there's some resolution on that

2878
02:19:53,000 --> 02:19:55,033
and getting into the bottom of what happened there.

2879
02:19:57,266 --> 02:20:00,066
And then a little bit of correspondence on all the things

2880
02:20:00,066 --> 02:20:00,934
that we've discussed today

2881
02:20:05,500 --> 02:20:05,834
over

2882
02:20:06,433 --> 02:20:07,433
- Okay.

2883
02:20:07,500 --> 02:20:12,000
And I had a communication, I believe it was over

2884
02:20:12,000 --> 02:20:15,233
by Fairbrook Park, also had a communication

2885
02:20:15,867 --> 02:20:17,700
from the One Hand Foundation.

2886
02:20:18,500 --> 02:20:20,233
They are a local nonprofit.

2887
02:20:20,500 --> 02:20:24,367
They recently established a MO Mobile Dental Clinic

2888
02:20:24,634 --> 02:20:28,700
for children, and they are having a clinic later this month

2889
02:20:28,700 --> 02:20:30,934
in the Borough, and they would be interested in

2890
02:20:31,467 --> 02:20:33,467
putting one on in Ferguson Township.

2891
02:20:33,634 --> 02:20:37,333
So I have forwarded those communications to the manager to

2892
02:20:38,634 --> 02:20:40,033
fo follow, follow up.

2893
02:20:40,700 --> 02:20:43,734
And then I also did have a communication of the bioswale

2894
02:20:44,233 --> 02:20:48,100
and it, one, one last thing, I,

2895
02:20:48,066 --> 02:20:50,100
I don't do this a often,

2896
02:20:50,166 --> 02:20:52,934
but I just wanted to take some time this evening

2897
02:20:53,000 --> 02:20:55,767
and just thank our local media that has been here,

2898
02:20:56,567 --> 02:21:00,934
had Jacob here from the center Daily Times, Mr.

2899
02:21:01,066 --> 02:21:04,133
Mr. Rogers from Senator Ging gives that joining us online.

2900
02:21:04,166 --> 02:21:07,233
And then I saw Channel six photo journalist

2901
02:21:07,300 --> 02:21:09,033
Sean was in attendance.

2902
02:21:09,567 --> 02:21:13,033
I just want to thank all of you for coming in here

2903
02:21:13,667 --> 02:21:16,367
and capturing our meetings

2904
02:21:16,667 --> 02:21:18,567
and taking that back out to the public.

2905
02:21:19,033 --> 02:21:22,467
I think the value of local journalism is very valuable

2906
02:21:23,033 --> 02:21:28,000
and I would just share that I think it is unfortunate

2907
02:21:28,033 --> 02:21:29,700
that the McClatchy company

2908
02:21:30,367 --> 02:21:34,734
who manages the Center Daily Times has decided to

2909
02:21:35,567 --> 02:21:38,700
remove their local journalists from

2910
02:21:38,700 --> 02:21:41,500
their organization.

2911
02:21:43,567 --> 02:21:47,066
But I, you know, just thank

2912
02:21:48,700 --> 02:21:51,100
all of you that come in here

2913
02:21:51,100 --> 02:21:53,033
and, you know, share our local story

2914
02:21:53,133 --> 02:21:56,734
because we're all human,

2915
02:21:56,834 --> 02:21:58,300
we all have busy lives

2916
02:21:59,066 --> 02:22:03,333
and sometimes just being able to catch up on what happens

2917
02:22:03,433 --> 02:22:07,333
to the meeting in, in State College dot com

2918
02:22:07,433 --> 02:22:09,834
or on the, you know, television news

2919
02:22:09,834 --> 02:22:13,100
or even at, at the Center Daily Times can, you know,

2920
02:22:14,133 --> 02:22:15,533
nicely help somebody

2921
02:22:15,634 --> 02:22:19,033
to stay informed without completely losing,

2922
02:22:19,433 --> 02:22:20,500
you know, what's going on.

2923
02:22:20,667 --> 02:22:23,533
So just thank you for your journalism

2924
02:22:23,667 --> 02:22:25,834
and covering our community.

2925
02:22:26,734 --> 02:22:28,333
- Jeremie, I wanna echo that too. Yes.

2926
02:22:28,333 --> 02:22:31,533
Because I went to a Press Forward event that was sponsored

2927
02:22:31,533 --> 02:22:32,734
by the Center Foundation

2928
02:22:33,100 --> 02:22:35,867
and that was exactly their findings.

2929
02:22:36,000 --> 02:22:39,266
Is that what the, the people they spoke

2930
02:22:39,266 --> 02:22:43,300
with in the Pennsylvania wilds was local news.

2931
02:22:44,066 --> 02:22:46,333
It was what's happening in their local government.

2932
02:22:46,667 --> 02:22:49,233
They didn't care necessarily so much about the

2933
02:22:50,033 --> 02:22:51,100
national news, et cetera.

2934
02:22:51,100 --> 02:22:53,867
Yeah. But what they really, really were interested in was

2935
02:22:53,867 --> 02:22:54,867
what was happening locally,

2936
02:22:55,066 --> 02:22:56,734
particularly in local government.

2937
02:22:57,066 --> 02:23:00,066
So it is sort of unfortunate that they made that decision,

2938
02:23:00,133 --> 02:23:02,033
but thank you for covering it.

2939
02:23:02,367 --> 02:23:03,634
- Yeah, I,

2940
02:23:03,934 --> 02:23:06,000
I even remember one year the Centre County Farm Bureau

2941
02:23:06,467 --> 02:23:09,133
recognized Gary Sanderson with an award.

2942
02:23:10,367 --> 02:23:13,634
And one thing that they brought up was, as farmers

2943
02:23:14,233 --> 02:23:16,066
you usually are working long hours

2944
02:23:16,133 --> 02:23:20,066
and you don't necessarily have time to, you know, go

2945
02:23:20,066 --> 02:23:22,333
and tell the public what you do on the farm.

2946
02:23:22,567 --> 02:23:25,834
But again, local, local journalism showing

2947
02:23:26,000 --> 02:23:27,066
what you're doing on the farm.

2948
02:23:27,100 --> 02:23:30,367
And I know he did some good reporting on Route 3 22

2949
02:23:30,567 --> 02:23:35,033
and other matters that matter to that particular community.

2950
02:23:35,033 --> 02:23:38,634
So can just go on and on.

2951
02:23:39,000 --> 02:23:41,867
So just wanted to get that out there.

2952
02:23:42,000 --> 02:23:43,066
I wanna thank y'all again.

2953
02:23:45,233 --> 02:23:47,133
Calendar items, coffee and conversations.

2954
02:23:47,834 --> 02:23:52,133
Saturday, October 3rd and here it will be here.

2955
02:23:53,000 --> 02:23:55,133
And trying to think who,

2956
02:23:55,333 --> 02:23:57,333
who all will be joining us that day? Well,

2957
02:23:57,333 --> 02:23:59,834
- Unfortunately I won't, I'll be in Florida that day

2958
02:24:00,133 --> 02:24:02,033
for visiting my daughter in college.

2959
02:24:02,834 --> 02:24:06,066
But Jenna, I can probably rope James into it

2960
02:24:06,166 --> 02:24:07,333
and then we can see

2961
02:24:07,333 --> 02:24:10,367
what other department heads will be willing to, to join us.

2962
02:24:11,133 --> 02:24:12,567
- See you, somebody will be here.

2963
02:24:12,767 --> 02:24:16,100
Feel free to come down, share your thoughts, concerns,

2964
02:24:16,133 --> 02:24:17,867
what you like about the Township

2965
02:24:18,133 --> 02:24:21,300
and complimentary coffee will be here.

2966
02:24:21,900 --> 02:24:25,333
And then our budget meetings will be October 6th,

2967
02:24:25,867 --> 02:24:27,533
the 13th and the 15th.

2968
02:24:28,000 --> 02:24:30,033
Those will be at 6:00 PM We'll be going

2969
02:24:30,033 --> 02:24:31,333
through our 2027 budget.

2970
02:24:32,634 --> 02:24:35,066
Those will also be broadcasted through CNET.

2971
02:24:35,066 --> 02:24:38,867
Definitely encourage you to come and participate, listen in.

2972
02:24:39,100 --> 02:24:40,567
They are lengthy meetings.

2973
02:24:40,700 --> 02:24:45,133
But again, you know, I think if you even contribute

2974
02:24:45,834 --> 02:24:49,734
a little bit of time, that's better than nothing

2975
02:24:49,734 --> 02:24:53,934
because again, local government, that that's, that's

2976
02:24:54,000 --> 02:24:57,100
where you get the most effect on your daily life.

2977
02:24:57,333 --> 02:25:00,300
You know, whether that's going out on the roads

2978
02:25:00,467 --> 02:25:03,033
or need needing assistance from the police.

2979
02:25:03,900 --> 02:25:08,000
So definitely come out in here, here what you know we do

2980
02:25:08,033 --> 02:25:10,567
and you know, learn some things.

2981
02:25:10,634 --> 02:25:13,367
And then trick or treat is October 29th.

2982
02:25:13,433 --> 02:25:17,233
And so, and, and not on Matt's birthday,

2983
02:25:17,333 --> 02:25:18,734
but it will be on Thursday.

2984
02:25:19,700 --> 02:25:21,333
So from six to eight,

2985
02:25:21,567 --> 02:25:26,266
you know, trick or treat.

2986
02:25:26,467 --> 02:25:29,834
So if nothing else, I'll have Ms. Stephens present.

2987
02:25:29,834 --> 02:25:32,834
Item number 11, motion to Adjourn. Alright, we're adjourned.

2988
02:25:32,834 --> 02:25:33,834
Have a good evening everyone.

2989
02:26:04,667 --> 02:26:07,867
- So you wanna vote in Centre County to be eligible

2990
02:26:07,867 --> 02:26:09,133
to vote in any election,

2991
02:26:09,433 --> 02:26:12,700
you must be registered in the county 15 days or more

2992
02:26:12,700 --> 02:26:14,000
before set election.

2993
02:26:14,700 --> 02:26:18,934
You can check your registration status@vote.pa.gov,

2994
02:26:19,266 --> 02:26:20,834
click on register to vote,

2995
02:26:21,133 --> 02:26:23,000
then check your voter registration.

2996
02:26:27,100 --> 02:26:30,467
You can register online to vote@vote.pa.gov.

2997
02:26:30,700 --> 02:26:33,834
Click on register to vote, then select register

2998
02:26:33,834 --> 02:26:35,300
to vote online to complete

2999
02:26:35,300 --> 02:26:37,066
and submit your registration online.

3000
02:26:38,000 --> 02:26:40,700
Or if you want a registration form mailed to you,

3001
02:26:41,266 --> 02:26:44,367
click on register to vote, then register to vote.

3002
02:26:45,000 --> 02:26:48,000
You can also download the form straight to your computer,

3003
02:26:48,533 --> 02:26:50,533
print it out and mail it directly.

3004
02:26:51,133 --> 02:26:54,000
If you are voting for the first time in a polling location,

3005
02:26:54,333 --> 02:26:56,467
you'll be required to show id.

3006
02:26:57,100 --> 02:27:01,533
You can verify authorized types of id@vote.pa.gov.

3007
02:27:02,133 --> 02:27:05,500
Click on voting and pa then first time voters.

3008
02:27:10,700 --> 02:27:12,100
Additionally, if your address changes,

3009
02:27:12,133 --> 02:27:14,033
you must update your registration.

3010
02:27:15,000 --> 02:27:17,100
This could change the location where you go to vote.

3011
02:27:17,834 --> 02:27:19,834
You can update your registration online

3012
02:27:19,900 --> 02:27:23,033
as well@vote.pa.gov.

3013
02:27:23,767 --> 02:27:25,266
Remember, if you wanna vote in Centre County,

3014
02:27:25,567 --> 02:27:27,100
you must be registered in Centre

3015
02:27:27,100 --> 02:27:28,767
County for your ballot to count.

3016
02:27:43,834 --> 02:27:45,567
- Did you know that CNET has over 30 years

3017
02:27:45,567 --> 02:27:47,367
of program archives available to the public

3018
02:27:48,133 --> 02:27:50,066
for a requested donation of $20?

3019
02:27:50,033 --> 02:27:51,100
You can receive a DVD

3020
02:27:51,100 --> 02:27:54,066
or digital copy of any program in our library going

3021
02:27:54,066 --> 02:27:55,033
back to 1988.

3022
02:27:55,634 --> 02:27:58,133
The senior archives include high school graduations

3023
02:27:58,133 --> 02:28:00,934
and award nights, school district concerts

3024
02:28:00,934 --> 02:28:03,333
and sporting events, school library, write

3025
02:28:03,333 --> 02:28:04,867
and illustrate your own book awards.

3026
02:28:05,867 --> 02:28:06,867
Memorial Day in Burg

3027
02:28:07,066 --> 02:28:08,867
and the Central Pennsylvania Festival of the Arts

3028
02:28:09,734 --> 02:28:10,934
Military history lectures.

3029
02:28:11,000 --> 02:28:13,066
So will round tables and many more.

3030
02:28:13,700 --> 02:28:15,066
And don't forget about the meetings,

3031
02:28:15,567 --> 02:28:18,133
we have an expansive archive of local government as well

3032
02:28:18,133 --> 02:28:20,367
as Beon and State College area school board meetings.

3033
02:28:21,133 --> 02:28:23,033
CNET has been covering the Centre County community

3034
02:28:23,033 --> 02:28:26,000
for over three decades, and we have the tape to prove it.

3035
02:28:26,300 --> 02:28:28,834
Visit CNET one.org to browse our archives

3036
02:28:28,834 --> 02:28:30,000
and you can call or email us.

3037
02:28:30,000 --> 02:28:32,100
Order your own DVD or digital copy today.

3038
02:28:32,767 --> 02:28:33,934
Nothing good on tv.

3039
02:28:34,333 --> 02:28:35,700
You're just not watching the right channels.