If you'll stand for the pledge of allegiance, please.
[clears throat] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation
under God, indivisible, liberty and justice for all.
» All right. So, everybody's got a copy of the uh of the minutes. Um I'll ask if
anybody has any questions about the prior hour minutes.
» I have a motion. Have a second. >> Second.
» Second. All right. Any discussion on that? If not, minutes are approved.
Okay. So, we're looking at uh PC-2026-22.
» Good evening. Thank you all for being here. Uh this is a request to reszone
from commercial reuse to central business district five parcels located
206, 208, 210, 211, and 212 Cougar Street identified as Florence County tax
map numbers 974086 78 9 and 35.
These parcels are all located on um at the end the south southern end of Cougar
Street which is between Chv Street and West Palmetto Street. They are all
vacant right now um largely being used as parking lots for adjacent [snorts]
properties and the um most of the properties around them as you can see
are zoned either commercial reuse which is the purple or central business
district which is the brown. So they're right in between both and the request is
to zone them from the commercial reuse which is a lower impact lower intensity
commercial use to central business district which is a mixeduse much more
um not much more but more intense more dense um zoning district. It's the
downtown district and there's nothing specifically planned for that but that
would make the open these up to be um a little more flexible for redevelopment
going forward. and um seems kind of appropriate for uh what is going on in
there. The uh future land use map has them as corridor mixed use um which
[clears throat] is what they would be used for as well.
These are some site photos of them. As you can see, they're just vacant
parcels. Um any redevelopment would be an improvement. So, um and everything
around it is former residential. It's been converted to commercial uses and
the as you can see the um school for uh France
» [clears throat] >> um yeah Francis Mary and the medical uh
school where circle park or circle school was will be just down the block
from this. So that concludes staff's report.
» Thank you. All right. That's a this is a public
hearing. So um usually for public hearing we give 2 to 5 minutes um for
response for and against. So I'll open the public hearing if anybody has
anything to say for they can come up to the podium give their name.
» Good afternoon. I'm John Deberry. I've made the application. I think um Elaine
did a great job of presenting our case for us and um but I want to give you an
opportunity to ask any questions that you might have.
» Commissioners, any questions for this gentleman?
» Can you point Can you point to where um Circle Park?
» So you you see where the King Avenue and Greg Avenue round make the
» semicircle there. >> Oh, right here.
» Yes, sir. Okay. [clears throat] >> So, that's where the new um medical
facility is being built. >> Okay. And then you these are right here.
So, uh you don't have any there was no uh
uh use. You don't have any uh plans for what you
plan on. >> So, the plans that we have um don't have
any current plans for these parcels at this time. Um they all right. So the the
dark red right around it, those are already zoned CBD and these are parking
lots that serve those parcels.
And [clears throat] we're in the process of trying to fix up
some of those buildings there. The tenants have vacated and want to put new
facades on them and invite, you know, more activity down there. Um, and I
think it's important it's this area is kind of in a donut hole because even the
light shaded pink between Graham Street and Cucer and Palmetto, those buildings
and uses are already operating like they're in the CBD. There's a bar in
there. There's a paint store. There's a boutique. Um, so we were just hoping to
make it more consistent with everything that's going on right in that area.
There's a nightclub on one side of it, um, Osborne's
and this would just be an opportunity to
make all of that consistent kind of a consistent area and they'd have
consistent setbacks with the other parcels and the way that all the other
buildings have been built over the years.
You say it serves as parking. Is this parking hooked to other parcels or just
» Yes, sir. Um, so it is there's an originally what was the
social security office building that faces Warley Street. This is parking for
that. And um, two of the parcels have historically been parking for medical
facility on Palmeta Street where Dr. McKay used to be. Mhm.
» And um so it served kind of in both directions as parking for them.
» The parking is going away. You're going to do development that
» No, sir. Um for the time being that will continue to be parking. We hope to be
able to landscape that nicely and really kind of like the downtown did, make the
facades of the back of the buildings on Warley Street look attractive and and
perform more as the entrance of the buildings to take advantage of some of
that parking in there. Um, and landscape it nicely. And then then the idea is
we've got a concept of a future possible another office building there if things
go well with the the renovation or maybe some um some town houses down in
there. >> Okay.
» Any other questions? >> You say the word town. I fig that's what
you going to do in the future. >> Well, That's one purpose of each one of
the parts. You going to divide it up and try to do that, right?
» No sir. Um so if we
we would not divide that up for um well first of all I think the lane can
correct me but right now I think it's it would be appropriate for town houses in
the commercial reuse. >> Yes, I think town houses are permitted.
So I don't think that you know makes a difference in this request but um that
is really not you know originally my that's this is a later phase of what we
have in mind if things go well and I was thinking another office building but the
city did suggest to look at when I talked to Hannah um Davis in the
downtown development department she suggested that we look at the
possibility of putting putting some housing down there.
» Any other questions? >> Thank you.
» All right. Thanks, sir. Anybody else speak for this?
Anybody here to speak opposed? If not, I'll close the public hearing
and ask for discussion.
» Any questions? Call for the motion. Make a motion to
approve. >> Second.
» Second. We have a motion to second. All in favor?
» I. >> That passes.
» All right. [sighs and gasps] Another public hearing. PC-2026-23.
Elaine. >> All right. This is a U request to zone
um NC15 pending annexation. A Whoops. A parcel um located at 2711 Ascot Drive.
and um uh identified as Florence County tax
number 00980181. This is another donut hole in Windsor
Forest. Um these addresses probably look kind of familiar. We've got several this
month and several next month as well. Um single family house surrounded by um
houses that are already in the city and they just want to um probably got tired
of watching their neighbors get their trash picked up and want to join in
that. Um it would be zoned NC15 which is what everything around it is zoned and
um the uh future land use map also has it as neighborhood conservation. So
everything is in keeping. There'll be no changes to it. Um and as you can see
it's a single family house. So um that concludes staff's report.
» Okay. All right. I'll open the public meeting. Anybody here to
speak on behalf of this proposal? Hearing none. Anybody against it? I'll
close the public hearing. Call for a motion.
» I'll [snorts] make a motion we approve. >> Second.
» Have a motion to second. All in favor? >> I.
» Motion carries. >> Okay. Uh PC-2026-26.
I'm sorry, excuse me. PC-2026-25.
» Right. Because 24 has been deferred for next month. Um this is a request to
reszone from NC 6.2 2 to NC6.3 18 parcels located on North Aken Drive. I'm
not going to read all 18 tax map numbers. Um
here's the addresses and the tax map numbers. They're all um sequential on
the um located along North Aken Drive, which is a small uh residential area on
the north side of West Evans Street. And um as you can see here, here they are.
And they were developed in the 1950s. these houses were built and there's
there because there is a single family house on each of them and it is a
residential donut hole surrounded by commercial general commercial all around
it and the request is to zone it from reszone it from the NC6.2 2, which only
allows single family and uh duplexes to NC 6.3 in order to give the developer
the option of developing single family, duplexes, town houses, multif family,
whatever works out uh whatever the market would work out. They just would
like to have that flexibility. And um we did have [clears throat] a um
one of the other property owners, one of the few that are left um was interested
in that and just wanted to make sure um you know that this was a quality
development. And as I told him that's not what this is for at this stage that
um that would come under any redevelopment late at a later date
because these lots would obviously have to be recombined and re subdivided to
accommodate whatever the development was. But at this point for tonight,
we're just looking at reszoning it from the NC6.2 to the NC6.3.
Um and here's some pictures. As I said, there older houses built in the 1950s
and they're all rentals at the moment. I don't believe there's any um uh owner
occupied houses there. So, that concludes staff's report. Okay. Uh I'll
open the public hearing. Anybody for or against this proposal? Come up to the
podium. Sir, say your name. [snorts] [clears throat]
Good afternoon. My name is Harvey Frierson and I'm
are on the end there which is not listed on the map there regards to uh changes
and I are listening to so far what's going on with the uh town houses and I'm
like Mr. Akens years back in 1950 he developed that area
[cough and clears throat] and my concern in 2026
is concern about 20 46 you coming in are changing up modifying
the neighborhood if so should be able to afford it and my concern was that if
they're going to plan I'm going to bring it to your attention now that street
likes should be your part of that planning. Sidewalks from Evans Creek to
Evans Creek are back of the property is railroads
and right now we're experiencing foxes and coyotes coming into the area and
that should be concerned also. And Florence itself is growing yet
nobody mentioned the senior citizens. So if they're going to buy that
property, I would like to see some senior citizen living in that area.
Now when you grow old, you're going to be young. What about the playground for
the children? So those my concern if that's intact with the planning, I have
no problem. But right now, I want it to be known
that this is what uh some of the residents who's not on that
map is concerned about.
» Again, thank you for your opportunity to express my concern.
» Okay. Any questions, Mr. Chairman? >> Uh what house do you live in, sir? I
live in the first house next to the uh I think it's ENT building. I've been there
perhaps about 20 years, 25 years. [clears throat]
» So is is your house >> the first one the blue house?
» Yes, sir. >> It's it's in this proposed change.
» No. >> No. In fact,
» you're outside of that. >> Yes, sir.
» Oh, okay. >> And I'll be affected also. If you look
at this zoning map, his is the first yellow parcel um next to the orange on
the right where they the the pieshaped parcels. Um it's tax map number 006.
» Okay. That's near the AT&T. >> Yes, sir. Next door to you.
» Yeah, I know what you're talking about. >> And and your concern is basically about
future use. >> Yes, sir.
» That's what you're voicing an opinion on.
» Yes, sir. sidewalks, senior living,
playground for the children or a shield against the railroad track
or ownership for driers as well as wild animals.
» All right. Thank you, sir. Any other questions?
You good? I would need to recuse myself from this
because I do have interest in this project.
» Okay. >> So, we just can't have your vote. All
right. >> Right.
» Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. Anyone else here to speak on [snorts] this
proposal? >> Oh, would I be able to speak on the
proposal? >> Uh, or what does the
» You would um >> Okay.
» You'd have to go out there and Yeah. as a
» point of order the audience for this for this [clears throat] particular case.
Yes, >> point of order. Uh because she's
reclused herself, that only gives us four people.
» That's okay. >> So, we can still vote. As long as as
long as you start the meeting with a quorum,
» correct? [snorts] >> Everything's good.
» Yes, ma'am. State your name. >> My name is Xavier Sams and I have an
interest in this project. Um this current project the owner has other
rentals and as part of the echo program which also helps those who with domestic
violence. Um they also assist veterans and seniors in those rentals because
this property has been is very dated. The solution would not be to renovate.
It would be to have an effective [clears throat]
living. Um, they currently have different things going on with them
where tearing down would be more effective as far as windows cost
effective and different things like that. So, as far as building back,
reszoning to NC 6.3 would give it more flexibility to build different things
back there. Um in talking with housing authority and also city some of the city
council who is also um excited about this project as well. They mentioned
that um there is not a lot of affordable housing for senior citizens and for
those who want to have some type of um when you have affordable housing they're
looked at in a negative type of way. Um, [snorts] so rebuilding these homes to
have I'm not gonna say upscale, but to have
different amenities that they would actually enjoy when these are going to
be rebuil rebuild back. >> What What else is in this area around
these? Can you comment on that? Maybe you can.
» Uh, Terminex was on the corner. Um, you have a CPA building. Um, it's like a
it's right >> I can't reach it cuz I'm short,
» but at the very beginning right here you have a lot of different offices there as
well. Uh, and in front of it is the old health department. You can't even see
these homes from Evans Street. You have to literally drive in there in order to
see it. >> There's commercial running already.
» Yeah. >> Mhm.
» And you call that the Echo? What did you call it? Echo is a program for different
individuals who need housing. Okay. >> Affordable housing.
» And you also mentioned veterans too. Work with veterans. But put place
» it would be veterans placements. They already working with the veterans. They
work with uh senior citizens and they work with lowinccome also considering um
housing authority as well. >> Okay.
» So that was sort of address some of the things he previous gentleman was
speaking about >> as the senior citizen population. That
is something that is noted. Um and looking at some of the different floor
plans that is being visited, that's why they have decided to do two primary
bedrooms. If they were to rebuild, being that if there was a senior citizen who
wanted to rent these, they would be accommodated on the first floor. Um a
lot of homes are now as a realtor here in Florence are going to
multi-generational homes just to offset the cost of housing. So, we lack a lot
of affordable 4bedroom homes in Florence versus going back with the current one
which has three bedrooms and one bathroom.
» Okay. Any other questions?
» Now, he addressed the issue about sidewalks.
Are y'all planning on putting sidewalks there for them so they can walk around
that circle? That has not been discussed as part of development when it go comes
to zoning. So right now it's just in the reszoning phase.
» That will be addressed Elaine. What that would be addressed for in future.
» Yeah, I think it depends on the scale >> layout scale. Gotcha. Right.
» It may require sidewalks. It may not. Um but it depends on the scale of the
development. >> But there's rules and regulations. Yeah,
there's rules and regulations you have to follow.
» And that is a DOT road. It's not a city road.
So, you're planning on putting back single family living homes
because that's what's affected now, right?
» It has been discussed to add town homes.
» And you going to do single family homes also or this town?
» It would be town homes. >> Towns.
» All town homes.
Any [snorts]
other comments, questions for this young lady?
» So, where will you put the each lot? We have a townhouse. That's what you have.
» So, after zoning, um what was also discussed because of the setbacks, it
would have to come back and have each parcel would have to be reserveyed. So,
some of the parcels may have to be combined because it the setbacks and
they're also the the lots are shaped funny.
» I see. >> Yep.
[snorts]
» And it's on two sides of the street. So, on the inside is a pie shaped. on the
outside is actually you could do more with it, but the pies shaped is the one
that's going to limit that's going to limit everything.
» Yes, sir. >> No single family.
And the reason being is that you can put more affordable housing as town homes to
accommodate the growth of Florence.
You put elevators in it because you got townhouse. You might have to have
stairs, right? >> You would have to have stairs in there.
» That's going to be good for >> Well, that's why there are two primary
bedrooms. One on the first floor or two bedrooms on the first floor, two
bedrooms on the top floor. We're focusing on multi-generational as well.
So, it's a mixture of everybody.
All right.
» Any other questions for her? >> All right. Okay. Thank you.
» All right. Thank you. >> Um I'm going to close the public meeting
now. Um any discussion
before any discussion in options? Guys, >> can we reopen the public hearing or it's
closed? >> That's up to the chairman. That's that's
chairman. And we've heard both sides. to give both side equal equal amount of of
of time. So if there's no discussion amongst us, I'll call for a motion.
» Move for adoption. >> Have a second.
» Second. >> Any discussion?
» All in favor say I. >> I.
» I. Motion passes. Okay. PC-2026-26.
» All right. And what one point of order before we move on. The um the deferral
of the Stratton Drive case, if you wouldn't mind bringing that to vote just
to defer it so it carries forward to the next agenda. Sorry.
» All right. >> I'll make a motion to defer.
» Second. >> All right. [laughter]
» There it goes. >> It's deferred.
» Yeah. And everybody votes. Okay. Very good. It's
» all in favor. >> We're official. Good.
» Just to make sure everything's official. So, um, this is an amendment to a
proposed amendment to the unified development ordinance regarding, uh,
noise and vibration regulations. And, and this one's a a little different in
that, um, this proposal would remove the noise ordinance section from the unified
development ordinance, which is the zoning code that planning commission
recommends on. But we would we have existing code also in the code of
ordinances which city council takes action on. And um we we want to one put
it all in one place um so that it's easy for the public and for for our police
department who's enforcing this um to to comprehend and to use so it's all in one
place. So we are um proposing that it be removed from the unified development
ordinance and the the key um pieces of that be combined into the existing code
in the code of ordinances. So, um, planning commission if they choose to
would be taking action to remove it from the unified development ordinance, but
that would be contingent, I think, I think, on it being placed into the code
of ordinances by city council. And, um, this was brought to us by a member of
city council. And it kind of started with um, a recommendation to extend
right now. Um there's there's different decibel levels which I'll go over here
in a second for um you know commercial districts and um residential districts
but um based on decibel levels that they have to be reduced to a certain time or
or a certain level um currently at 1000 p.m. um in our commercial districts and
it was proposed that that be extended to 11 p.m. and that so that change is in
here as a proposal. Um but also staff took it a step further and wanted while
we're while we're touching the noise ordinance, we wanted to combine it all
into one easy to use document. So I'll um all of that was in your packet. Um
but um essentially I we put in the packet what the um current uh unified
development ordinance has in it. Um and that's showing as as struck through um
in this because it would be removed. Um the key parts of of this code are the
decibel levels that is not in currently in the code of ordinances. But we
thought it was important to tie that, you know, the sound to a measure um that
that a meter that we could actually, you know, that'll hold up in court or or if
even if the police just go out there and you know and you know they have that
decibel meter and they can say, "Hey, it's exceeding that. would you quieten
down? Because, you know, everything doesn't end up in court, but um they can
just get um instant, you know, folks to instantly quieten down. Um but the I did
want to show um you know, the code of ordinances are also in here. Um you
know, this is what city council would have control over. um these first 12
items, the the 10-9 and 10-10 and the first 12 items would remain unchanged.
Um that's as it currently reads in the code of ordinances. Um but then starting
with 14 is where we start the incorporation of the unified development
ordinance. We took um language specific to schools where they that out of the
UDO and incorporated it um so that that you know between seven and four people
can't be making noise outside of schools. Um, and then we added number
17, which has to do with recreation, um, recreational motorized vehicles, you
know, four-wheelers and go-karts and things like that, um, that that they
can't be making certain noise levels, um, in in neighborhoods and such. And
then um under the exceptions, we incorporated some of the exceptions that
were in the unified development ordinance or all of the exceptions
actually um such as construction activities and that's outlined um up in
1010. It has certain um time requirements on that. So you can you
know perform um construction in the city and and the noise is accepted to that
basically during the daytime hours um as is acceptable. Um also um the noise
emanating from a um that's temporary in nature like landscaping blowers,
lawnmowers and things. We all expect temporary noises from that within our
residential and commercial areas as well as agricultural equipment in the um in
the appropriate agriculture zoning district. Uh also emergency warning
devices, that's you know your police cars, ambulances, fire trucks. Um and
also um the um events that was already in there, but things like the pecan
festival or special events that we held downtown, but we did add some times to
that um because even though the city says it's okay, we should still follow
some rules. So we put from uh 7 a.m. to 1000 p.m. That doesn't give the city
free will to go out there and run the pecan festival till 2 in the morning or
anything. So we did put some times in there. And um and then we made reference
um to the appropriate section in the unified development ordinance there.
[snorts] And um then everything in the uh the black font there is um already
existing in the code. And then um these are all the sections regarding the uh
decibel levels and the times um that was taken from the uh unified development
ordinance and placed in there. Um the changes from the unified development
ordinance to this document um are are that that first section there the one
through four um the primaaci violation and um it that establishes um for the um
codes enforcement or or the police department who who's on the scene uh you
know a way to actually show that there's a violation. Um it it says that they
have to have a a meter a decibel meter. Um it tells the scale by which it's
measured. It's got the American National Standards Institute or ANIE. Um that the
you know the meter itself has to be certified by and it tells where it need
you know it needs to be taken at a reasonable location on the property
where the sound is occurring. So you know if I call that my you know that I'm
in my living room and I can hear my neighbor's kid playing the drums then
they basically need to come onto my property at a reasonable location and
and show that decel level. they don't need to go onto the neighbor's property
to do that. So, it establishes things like that. Um and um the the one change
is that um you know from uh 7 to 10 in residential districts it has the
different decibel levels and then um in the commercial districts it's from 7:00
a.m. to 11:00 p.m. And just to um give you a um if I can might have lost my
sheet of paper here, but um the decel There it is.
So to give you a gauge for decibel levels and this is decibel this is a
logarithmic scale. So um you know from 55 to 60 it is a huge increase u but you
know a normal conversation um kind of with some or some background
music um if you're in a um in a doctor's office or something like that would be
around 60 dB. So that's just kind of normal conversation, uh, normal kind of
chatter. Um, if you're, um, and that's, you know, more in the range of what's
acceptable in residential areas. Um, but then if you go up to commercial areas in
that 75 range during the daytime, um, it it's talking about a vacuum cleaner, you
know, um, you remember when you were a kid watching cartoons and your mom was
trying to vacuum and you couldn't hear the TV? That's the kind of noise that
that is is is that level of of noise. Um and then uh at night it would be
expected to be 70 dB which is more like office noise or inside of a car at about
60 m hour or so. So it's that kind of noise. And then industrial areas have a
a different decibel level but it's even quieter at night because most industries
tend to shut down at at night and we don't have a ton of industrial areas
within the city. Um but we did we did incorporate that chart um with the with
the change times into the proposal um within the um code of ordinances and we
also incorporated um some of the um other language about
proposed barriers or structures that could be um incorporated and also
section um 10-xx. There I put an XX because we haven't assigned that a
number in the code of ordinances. Yes, but yet but um the code of ordinances
didn't have anything referring to vibrations, but the unified development
ordinance did. So we took that section and put it in there as well. So, um that
outlines some of the proposed um changes and planning commission I I think if
they choose to um uh move forward with this would propose to remove it from the
UDO um and then give council uh the ability to add it to the code of
ordinances here. So, and that concludes staff's report and I'm happy to answer
any questions. >> I have a question on [clears throat] the
decibb. I have a problem with decibb. So, I'll tell you right now, [laughter]
if me and Mr. Moses are outside having a barbecue at his house and we have our
wives there or kids, grandkids, whatever, you will exceed every decibel
you have there. >> Without question.
» All right. So, I have a very sensitive uh when it comes to decibel readings uh
in Georgetown County. Um and I've actually proved my point. All right. Um
so, uh I you this is too restrictive in my mind. I'm gonna tell you right now,
it's too restrictive. And I'll tell you, I know at least one um uh city council
members, I don't know what's going on with them, but um I don't I don't think
that uh when you start limiting, you know, um common sense, and a police
officer comes out, does this stuff, and you start putting decibels behind it, uh
decibb, you'd be surprised um in a in a normal conversation how you will exceed
some of those that you guys come up with. So, um that was what I had say.
Any other any other comments or questions for Jerry? I'm with the same
thing also because see, you know, if uh if the police can come in my yard, tell
what's going on in the next yard, then we're going to have a lot of fines with
coming to uh to the to the person or stuff and then it's going I see where
I see where you talking about that take like downtown you have you after five
and it's after 7 o'lock. Am I right? I think it's over to 8.
» Yeah. >> And you you exceed that. That's because
you got a ban plan. >> Yeah. Well, for city events, it would be
till 10 p.m. So >> 10 p.m.
» which would align with Yeah. It would actually be ahead of what's proposed.
» Where's that 12:00 at? Um, we're proposing 11 p.m. for um the uh downtown
area in general for for businesses and but for city events it would be
» this unified district is so strict with the city of Florence. We we got this
unified district. They got they're strict with a lot of thing here in
Florence. We let them have their way to run Florence and this is part of it
right here. But see that unified district, we got to do something about
unifi. I think that unified district is getting way out of hand.
» Well, are there any decimals current are any decibb currently in in ordinances?
» It it's currently in the unified development ordinance. We currently have
» But what levels? What >> these levels? I didn't change I did not
change the levels. That's what's currently on the books. I didn't I
didn't touch that at all. I wouldn't I wouldn't feel comfortable voting on any
of this until I actually see the decel monitor and I know what 70 dB is, what
80 is. I I get your point of saying us having a conversation is 60.
If that's 60 I how is 80? I I don't know. And I I know
» demonstration. >> Yeah. I feel like I I mean just to cuz I
feel like Yeah. I mean, I I get college football, they're like 120 dB. So, if 80
if us having a conversation is 60 and that's 120, I I don't feel comfortable
knowing that I would understand exactly what 70 and 80 is. I think that you do
need to have some type of regulations and parameters on what is too loud and
what's not loud enough. But me personally, I couldn't sign off on
anything until I actually saw the decibel meter
» and saw how it works. >> Well, right. Right. Now, so who has
control? So, who you mentioned they're two
separate. So, who enforces each one? That's why it's co code the police
police have authority to enforce any of it and codes enfor codes codes
enforcement division assist us with that typically and and this is very complaint
driven. This is not something we go out and find. I mean that that's just
» full full honesty on that. We we don't the police department does not go out
searching for loud noises to to throw fines and and and you know throw tickets
at people. But when it's complaint driven, we do we do have to respond.
» I got you. But I But very specifically, the question I have combining these,
» what what more restrictiveness are you adding or if if any All you're doing is
extending the time. Right. >> That's right. When I read through,
» there's really no change. It's just making [clears throat] it easier for the
public and for our our officers and and us in in planning and zoning to to have
all in one place. it it always used to reside in the the um code of ordinances.
When we adopted the new the new unified development ordinance, it had the noise
um section in it. Um we adopted that as part of it, but as we've applied it, it
gets a little confusing. There's a little bit of contradiction in it.
» That's right. So, the four-wheers and the go-karts and all that, what what
explain that to me a little bit more. What are you What are you referring to?
It's um so no person shall operate or cause to operate any recreational
motorized vehicle on a public rideway or a private property in a manner that it
that emitted sound levels exceeding 40 dB at or across the boundary of a
property receiving the noise. And um so it's essentially saying you can't run
» and that's in it currently or is that >> that's in the unified development
ordinance currently? >> Studio currently, right?
» Yeah. And we're we are open to any recommendations coming from planning
commission to to move forward or if we need to have a demonstration.
» I have a question. Where are the most complaints coming from
regarding this in this district >> in in our central business district in
our downtown area? >> Sure. You have a few people outline that
call with you know >> Yeah.
a loud burp or something, you know, just occasionally we get um construction
complaints from from projects going on um you know or or pumps that might run
at night in certain areas um you know throughout the city at various places.
But um but for mostly it's within our downtown district or or potentially
within some of our commercial districts where you know a a bar or a nightclub
backs up to a neighborhood >> and you're adding vibration on this one,
right? >> Um vibration is currently in the unified
development ordinance. It would just get moved over.
» Yeah. >> So basically it's giving city council
control. >> Well, they have control over the uni. I
mean ultimately they vote on the unified development ordinance too but it would
be without planning commission's recommendation.
» Yeah. >> So Ventura Court is also in the city and
over there when the band is practicing at Wilson High School that's a lot of
decibb >> but it's recreational of course it's
extracurricular activities. Let's say a resident on Ventur Court
to complain on the ban. What would that look like?
» They take that decimal meter out. >> Technically [laughter] the band
technically the band is in Wilson is in the county. It's not in the city, right?
» But you can but you can but you can Yeah, you can hear it in the
neighborhood through the trees. >> I hear that at my house.
» I I love I loved hearing it. Yeah. >> But you may have someone who I think
we'd be forced to deal with it based on the current the codes we have on the
book >> on the current stuff that I think all
this is doing is just taking it out of our hands. We have no say in it. with
the city council ultimately has a you know they are elected leaders. All
right. So um but it it it combines everything and we we don't that's not in
our purview anymore. Is that correct? That's how that's what we're doing here.
Right. >> Mhm.
» Now they would have to take away or amend or add whatever they wanted. Um
but you couldn't crank up a four-wheeler anywhere else currently in the city. I
mean, if somebody pressed it, you know, I mean, you there's and I I I understand
if I'm trying to sleep and I work third shift,
» you know, bike, I get it. I get it. You know, if I'm downtown and, you know,
wherever and the band's kicking up, I, you know,
» I get it. So, I I think there's uh I think if you're an elected official,
there's consequences uh to what you do and what you don't, and that's what
elections are for. Um, but I I I think uh I think that uh personally I think I
don't like any restrictions at all, but they're already there. So I think elect
officials should be able to >> make the ultimate decision on that
because their constituents are voting for them.
» Um we're just a recommended body to begin with, you know. So
» I get your point too, my man. I I completely, you know, it's listen from
60 to 80 it it's graduated. What what he means is when you talking like this and
it keeps going up it it's like a 3 to one 401 5 to1 ones it goes up higher for
hearing you know >> but it it ain't much I'm telling you
it's not it's not much so anyway any any other discussion
» or any other comments what what do y'all with we have to agree on this to send it
back to city council or we'll defer to tell the city council come back with
some more information about desk >> well I mean I think
» that I mean, I think you need to take action on it, either for or against it.
Um, or you could defer it or you could defer it and ask staff, you know, to do
more research in a certain area if we need that.
» And I think there's there's multiple options.
» I mean, I read through all of it and when I read through some of I'm going
this this stuff's already in effect. I'm going Jesus.
» Yeah. >> It's already this is already in the
books of law. You know, I start reading this stuff. I had no idea.
» See, that's where they're changing it. Well, no, they're not changing. Well,
they're extending some of the hours, but this this stuff is going to be in effect
one way or the other. It's already in effect. They're just trying to combine
it under one. >> We are,
» you know, instead of us being involved recommending luckily, we don't have to
enforce this very much. I mean, it doesn't come to light, but if it did, we
we we would have to because it's on the record.
» That was my next point is how we don't have to enforce it. It's just a rule.
» That's right. We It's It's very complaint driven.
» And I think that you're cleaning it up a good bit, right? for when you combine
the other things that's being cleaned up.
» We're trying to clean it up. That's right. Yeah.
» Mhm. So, [clears throat] all the rules are basically there. You only extend it
one hour. So, so these rules are already in place. Nothing we can do about that,
right? >> That's right.
» Defining them a little bit more. >> As a planning commission, you can you
can recommend >> you take the bull by the horns and
» Yeah, we could go at it. What you do? Because
» let them come make me some more decimals going be higher stuff. It's we just
don't go ahead and put it in there because real they open the door for us
» and let's keep that door open while we can
» until they come up with something else. You know, they open the door.
» Do we have a motion to have a motion to defer?
» Motion to defer. We have a second. >> Second.
» Any discussion? All in favor? >> I.
» Any opposed? >> It's deferred. Okay. I think we just get
a little more little more >> little more, you know, background and
being comfortable with it and and >> Okay. And that'll give planning
commission some extra time to review what's what's in place and um
» so let me ask you this. If we come back uh like Mr. Moses, I think what I get
what he's saying, >> how could some of this be changed by us
if we make a recommendation that things are changed? Is that is that way it
works? I mean, >> I think um I think because it's tied
currently to the UDO, I think that does give you guys some say so in it. Um and
what I would do is I would um I would take any recommendations that are made
in your motion um for this and put it in the staff report and present it to city
council at that time. >> And I think that would be good. I mean,
I think if I mean, I think it's a good opportunity. We, as Mr. Moses said,
"We've opened the door and we kind of thought this might happen that that
planning commission might have some say so in it and um for for you guys to have
some input in it and have some recommendations."
» Mr. Mo, so the motion you made, we all approved. Can we just add to that motion
of what we're talking about? >> That's up to you to make it take care of
you. >> I'd like to add I'd like to to add to
the motion Mr. Moses and everybody voted for. What's some of the things if Jerry
can just list them out that we that we want to look at? Now I for one 60 80 dB
I mean that's that's me and him you know having a conversation about football and
that that's you know that can get a little I mean you're you're in violation
you know what I mean and and so what would you anybody want to suggest but
what we need to do we need to verify what what's the decimate we got to come
up on that we got to be educated on that that's number one and then we as a group
I think we as a group need to get together.
» Sure. Well, h how about a staff comes back to us with examples of Jay, I don't
know how to do it. Just just sound and decibb. Um
» yeah, we we can see we can do two things. We can one, we can we can look
and see what other municipalities have in place as far as decibel levels. So,
we can put that in a chart so you guys can see what other places have that that
that do it by decibb. And we could possibly also do a demonstration where
we might could get bring in a decibel meter and have some sounds and show show
y'all what that looks like. We'd like to add that. I would like to add that.
» Got it. >> Yeah. That way everybody hears it
firsthand. >> Yeah.
» Anybody else having comments or we good on that? You look you want to say
something? >> Sure. I understand.
» So So let me get this straight. Um ultimately the um unified development
ordinance. Uh the ultimate goal is to move it into the code of ordinances
which would take it away from this. >> It would take it out of the zoning code
and put it in the in the code of ordinance. ordinances. That's right.
» Which would be well everything's governed by the city council. Yeah.
» But it just go straight to city council. >> That's right. That's right. And and and
to be honest, it is most municipalities and counties it noise ordinances are
housed in the code of ordinances. It's just, you know, these bits and pieces of
it got put in the the new code when we adopted it. Yeah. So in in most places
that is where it resides. Um so we we thought it best to just combine it in
that category there. Okay. So, if we could if we could kind of
» chisel at it while we got a chance, this is probably a good opportunity to do it.
» I also would like to add um other municipalities their
uh decibel ordinances. Well, not decel ordinance, the same thing.
» The amounts the amounts of, >> you know.
» Yeah. Sure thing. Yeah. >> Their version of this [laughter]
» the upper limits of the decimals and stuff like that.
» Yeah. Sure thing. We've um we we've looked at a good many and we we can
organize that into a little chart. >> Thank you.
» Anything else, guys? Nothing. >> That's [laughter] right.
» I know I can't hear as well as I used to. Probably because of some of these
loud noises. [laughter] >> It's the low. It's the low vibrations
here. All right. Thank you guys. Okay. Um so, uh let's do PC-2026-27.
Do we have to vote on that to defer? >> Oh, we added it.
» We already voted further. We added >> Yeah. And I just got some direct from
planning commission. >> Yeah.
» All right. All right. How is everybody? >> Good.
» Live it. Now, let's go. >> Over the next [laughter] 45 minutes, I'd
like to explain the Palm Subdivision. Now, this is uh the Palm Subdivision
sketch plan. If this looks familiar, >> this was approved by planning commission
back in 2023. Uh back then we were looking at 179 total lots, higher
density. The developer is coming back with uh a different product uh than what
we've typically seen on the on the market right now. So it will be uh 39
lots as opposed to the 179. Uh, so here's a location map. Everything's
zoned RG2. It is historically the Oakdale Golf Course. So this is an
infill development around existing single family detached homes and that is
what is proposed.
So here's the sketch plan. I printed out the latest and greatest.
So they are looking for a conventional single family type development. Uh in
the staff report we said 42 were shown. Uh it got reconfigured a little bit just
to make sure we were meeting all the minimum lot widths and uh lot areas for
the RG2 subdivision and those are uh 80 foot lot widths and 10,000 square ft um
which is what is shown in the sketch plan now. So the setbacks that will be
observed will be 25 ft in the front, 8t on the
side, uh 12 feet for street side and 25 ft in the rear. Uh water is available to
the property. Sewer is not uh the individuals when they build the homes
will request from uh sedes which used to be dehack to have uh septic tanks
installed. Uh so no new infrastructure will be
installed by the developer. City water and storm water infrastructure is
already in place. Uh compliance will still do inspections
uh along the way. Uh the proposed subdivision does not require a traffic
study. It is under the 50 lot threshold. Um and um
[snorts] we just asked the engineer to kind of
clean up some of the parcel shown to show what was proposed versus what was
existing. And we feel he's done a good job of that. Uh staff erroneously
thought that with the first sketch plan they were using Lake Oakdale to get
density bonuses from preserving the open space. Lake Oakdale is still going to be
preserved. is still in the hands of the homeowners association. The developer
just feels that it's the right time in the market for
maybe some larger parcels and to give a little more choice uh to the citizens of
Florence for uh different housing products. So the engineer did turn in a
revised set of plans which is what's in front of you now and it does meet all
the guidelines of the unified development ordinance. So that concludes
staff's report. Okay. [clears throat]
» All right. This is a not a public hearing.
Any questions for staff? >> So you said it went from 42 to 39. Yep.
» Right. [snorts] Right. We just um I think it was just a
choice of the engineer and the developer. It was not anything mandated
by the city. They were meeting the minimum standards that are required in
RG2.
» So bigger lots, single family homes. Mr. Moses,
» these are generousized lots. These are very generous size lots.
» All right. Any other questions? >> Essentially, it would get rid of the
golf course itself. Right. >> Right. The infill development. Yes, sir.
» Golf courses no more. >> Yes. Not being
» any other questions, comments?
[laughter] >> All right. I'll call for a motion.
» I'll make a motion approved. >> Second.
» I second. >> Any discussion?
All in favor say I. I. >> I.
» Any oppose? Eyes have it. >> Second.
» All right, that's done. That's done. Motion to journ is good to go.