1 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:23,359 If you'll stand for the pledge of allegiance, please. 2 00:00:21,615 --> 00:00:27,840 [clears throat] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the 3 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:33,680 United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation 4 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:37,239 under God, indivisible, liberty and justice for all. 5 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:46,239 » All right. So, everybody's got a copy of the uh of the minutes. Um I'll ask if 6 00:00:44,559 --> 00:00:51,039 anybody has any questions about the prior hour minutes. 7 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:53,280 » I have a motion. Have a second. >> Second. 8 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:58,719 » Second. All right. Any discussion on that? If not, minutes are approved. 9 00:00:56,879 --> 00:01:01,719 Okay. So, we're looking at uh PC-2026-22. 10 00:01:02,719 --> 00:01:08,320 » Good evening. Thank you all for being here. Uh this is a request to reszone 11 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:13,439 from commercial reuse to central business district five parcels located 12 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:19,280 206, 208, 210, 211, and 212 Cougar Street identified as Florence County tax 13 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:26,320 map numbers 974086 78 9 and 35. 14 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:31,119 These parcels are all located on um at the end the south southern end of Cougar 15 00:01:28,799 --> 00:01:36,799 Street which is between Chv Street and West Palmetto Street. They are all 16 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:43,200 vacant right now um largely being used as parking lots for adjacent [snorts] 17 00:01:39,439 --> 00:01:47,200 properties and the um most of the properties around them as you can see 18 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:51,600 are zoned either commercial reuse which is the purple or central business 19 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:56,640 district which is the brown. So they're right in between both and the request is 20 00:01:53,840 --> 00:02:01,040 to zone them from the commercial reuse which is a lower impact lower intensity 21 00:01:59,119 --> 00:02:06,159 commercial use to central business district which is a mixeduse much more 22 00:02:04,079 --> 00:02:12,400 um not much more but more intense more dense um zoning district. It's the 23 00:02:09,039 --> 00:02:16,800 downtown district and there's nothing specifically planned for that but that 24 00:02:14,239 --> 00:02:22,000 would make the open these up to be um a little more flexible for redevelopment 25 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:27,920 going forward. and um seems kind of appropriate for uh what is going on in 26 00:02:24,879 --> 00:02:32,000 there. The uh future land use map has them as corridor mixed use um which 27 00:02:30,660 --> 00:02:36,160 [clears throat] is what they would be used for as well. 28 00:02:34,239 --> 00:02:41,200 These are some site photos of them. As you can see, they're just vacant 29 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:46,640 parcels. Um any redevelopment would be an improvement. So, um and everything 30 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:53,440 around it is former residential. It's been converted to commercial uses and 31 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:54,239 the as you can see the um school for uh France 32 00:02:54,231 --> 00:02:59,760 » [clears throat] >> um yeah Francis Mary and the medical uh 33 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:05,120 school where circle park or circle school was will be just down the block 34 00:03:02,319 --> 00:03:08,720 from this. So that concludes staff's report. 35 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:12,879 » Thank you. All right. That's a this is a public 36 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:17,920 hearing. So um usually for public hearing we give 2 to 5 minutes um for 37 00:03:14,959 --> 00:03:22,159 response for and against. So I'll open the public hearing if anybody has 38 00:03:20,239 --> 00:03:25,959 anything to say for they can come up to the podium give their name. 39 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:38,959 » Good afternoon. I'm John Deberry. I've made the application. I think um Elaine 40 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:42,480 did a great job of presenting our case for us and um but I want to give you an 41 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:46,239 opportunity to ask any questions that you might have. 42 00:03:44,959 --> 00:03:49,840 » Commissioners, any questions for this gentleman? 43 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:54,239 » Can you point Can you point to where um Circle Park? 44 00:03:51,599 --> 00:03:59,360 » So you you see where the King Avenue and Greg Avenue round make the 45 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,840 » semicircle there. >> Oh, right here. 46 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:06,400 » Yes, sir. Okay. [clears throat] >> So, that's where the new um medical 47 00:04:04,799 --> 00:04:13,040 facility is being built. >> Okay. And then you these are right here. 48 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:16,400 So, uh you don't have any there was no uh 49 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:19,280 uh use. You don't have any uh plans for what you 50 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:24,720 plan on. >> So, the plans that we have um don't have 51 00:04:21,840 --> 00:04:31,440 any current plans for these parcels at this time. Um they all right. So the the 52 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:37,040 dark red right around it, those are already zoned CBD and these are parking 53 00:04:34,479 --> 00:04:41,199 lots that serve those parcels. 54 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:46,479 And [clears throat] we're in the process of trying to fix up 55 00:04:44,479 --> 00:04:52,560 some of those buildings there. The tenants have vacated and want to put new 56 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:57,600 facades on them and invite, you know, more activity down there. Um, and I 57 00:04:55,759 --> 00:05:03,520 think it's important it's this area is kind of in a donut hole because even the 58 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:10,560 light shaded pink between Graham Street and Cucer and Palmetto, those buildings 59 00:05:07,039 --> 00:05:15,520 and uses are already operating like they're in the CBD. There's a bar in 60 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:21,840 there. There's a paint store. There's a boutique. Um, so we were just hoping to 61 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:26,720 make it more consistent with everything that's going on right in that area. 62 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:30,080 There's a nightclub on one side of it, um, Osborne's 63 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:35,280 and this would just be an opportunity to 64 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:40,639 make all of that consistent kind of a consistent area and they'd have 65 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:44,240 consistent setbacks with the other parcels and the way that all the other 66 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:47,120 buildings have been built over the years. 67 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:52,720 You say it serves as parking. Is this parking hooked to other parcels or just 68 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:58,960 » Yes, sir. Um, so it is there's an originally what was the 69 00:05:56,479 --> 00:06:07,520 social security office building that faces Warley Street. This is parking for 70 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:13,600 that. And um, two of the parcels have historically been parking for medical 71 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:18,639 facility on Palmeta Street where Dr. McKay used to be. Mhm. 72 00:06:15,280 --> 00:06:23,360 » And um so it served kind of in both directions as parking for them. 73 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:27,199 » The parking is going away. You're going to do development that 74 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:34,319 » No, sir. Um for the time being that will continue to be parking. We hope to be 75 00:06:29,759 --> 00:06:38,560 able to landscape that nicely and really kind of like the downtown did, make the 76 00:06:36,639 --> 00:06:45,520 facades of the back of the buildings on Warley Street look attractive and and 77 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:50,880 perform more as the entrance of the buildings to take advantage of some of 78 00:06:47,039 --> 00:06:59,120 that parking in there. Um, and landscape it nicely. And then then the idea is 79 00:06:53,199 --> 00:07:06,080 we've got a concept of a future possible another office building there if things 80 00:07:01,599 --> 00:07:10,880 go well with the the renovation or maybe some um some town houses down in 81 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:13,880 there. >> Okay. 82 00:07:14,479 --> 00:07:20,639 » Any other questions? >> You say the word town. I fig that's what 83 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:26,160 you going to do in the future. >> Well, That's one purpose of each one of 84 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:33,240 the parts. You going to divide it up and try to do that, right? 85 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:33,240 » No sir. Um so if we 86 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:40,960 we would not divide that up for um well first of all I think the lane can 87 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:46,720 correct me but right now I think it's it would be appropriate for town houses in 88 00:07:43,599 --> 00:07:51,199 the commercial reuse. >> Yes, I think town houses are permitted. 89 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:59,120 So I don't think that you know makes a difference in this request but um that 90 00:07:55,680 --> 00:08:06,319 is really not you know originally my that's this is a later phase of what we 91 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:11,440 have in mind if things go well and I was thinking another office building but the 92 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:15,759 city did suggest to look at when I talked to Hannah um Davis in the 93 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:19,440 downtown development department she suggested that we look at the 94 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:23,160 possibility of putting putting some housing down there. 95 00:08:25,039 --> 00:08:29,919 » Any other questions? >> Thank you. 96 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:36,959 » All right. Thanks, sir. Anybody else speak for this? 97 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:43,560 Anybody here to speak opposed? If not, I'll close the public hearing 98 00:08:39,599 --> 00:08:43,560 and ask for discussion. 99 00:08:43,839 --> 00:08:49,200 » Any questions? Call for the motion. Make a motion to 100 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,440 approve. >> Second. 101 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:53,760 » Second. We have a motion to second. All in favor? 102 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:58,320 » I. >> That passes. 103 00:08:56,959 --> 00:09:01,880 » All right. [sighs and gasps] Another public hearing. PC-2026-23. 104 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:09,600 Elaine. >> All right. This is a U request to zone 105 00:09:05,839 --> 00:09:16,160 um NC15 pending annexation. A Whoops. A parcel um located at 2711 Ascot Drive. 106 00:09:13,519 --> 00:09:21,200 and um uh identified as Florence County tax 107 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:26,480 number 00980181. This is another donut hole in Windsor 108 00:09:22,959 --> 00:09:30,560 Forest. Um these addresses probably look kind of familiar. We've got several this 109 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:35,440 month and several next month as well. Um single family house surrounded by um 110 00:09:33,279 --> 00:09:38,880 houses that are already in the city and they just want to um probably got tired 111 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:44,240 of watching their neighbors get their trash picked up and want to join in 112 00:09:41,519 --> 00:09:50,080 that. Um it would be zoned NC15 which is what everything around it is zoned and 113 00:09:46,959 --> 00:09:54,080 um the uh future land use map also has it as neighborhood conservation. So 114 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:58,720 everything is in keeping. There'll be no changes to it. Um and as you can see 115 00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:02,480 it's a single family house. So um that concludes staff's report. 116 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:09,760 » Okay. All right. I'll open the public meeting. Anybody here to 117 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:13,760 speak on behalf of this proposal? Hearing none. Anybody against it? I'll 118 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:16,959 close the public hearing. Call for a motion. 119 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:20,880 » I'll [snorts] make a motion we approve. >> Second. 120 00:10:17,839 --> 00:10:24,000 » Have a motion to second. All in favor? >> I. 121 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:27,720 » Motion carries. >> Okay. Uh PC-2026-26. 122 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:32,200 I'm sorry, excuse me. PC-2026-25. 123 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:40,800 » Right. Because 24 has been deferred for next month. Um this is a request to 124 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:44,640 reszone from NC 6.2 2 to NC6.3 18 parcels located on North Aken Drive. I'm 125 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:49,440 not going to read all 18 tax map numbers. Um 126 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:55,040 here's the addresses and the tax map numbers. They're all um sequential on 127 00:10:52,320 --> 00:11:01,120 the um located along North Aken Drive, which is a small uh residential area on 128 00:10:58,079 --> 00:11:07,760 the north side of West Evans Street. And um as you can see here, here they are. 129 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:10,880 And they were developed in the 1950s. these houses were built and there's 130 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:16,000 there because there is a single family house on each of them and it is a 131 00:11:13,279 --> 00:11:21,200 residential donut hole surrounded by commercial general commercial all around 132 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:27,680 it and the request is to zone it from reszone it from the NC6.2 2, which only 133 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:34,320 allows single family and uh duplexes to NC 6.3 in order to give the developer 134 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:39,839 the option of developing single family, duplexes, town houses, multif family, 135 00:11:37,279 --> 00:11:44,000 whatever works out uh whatever the market would work out. They just would 136 00:11:41,839 --> 00:11:49,279 like to have that flexibility. And um we did have [clears throat] a um 137 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:55,760 one of the other property owners, one of the few that are left um was interested 138 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:59,279 in that and just wanted to make sure um you know that this was a quality 139 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:03,839 development. And as I told him that's not what this is for at this stage that 140 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:07,680 um that would come under any redevelopment late at a later date 141 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:13,760 because these lots would obviously have to be recombined and re subdivided to 142 00:12:11,680 --> 00:12:18,000 accommodate whatever the development was. But at this point for tonight, 143 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:23,760 we're just looking at reszoning it from the NC6.2 to the NC6.3. 144 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:29,279 Um and here's some pictures. As I said, there older houses built in the 1950s 145 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:34,320 and they're all rentals at the moment. I don't believe there's any um uh owner 146 00:12:32,399 --> 00:12:40,399 occupied houses there. So, that concludes staff's report. Okay. Uh I'll 147 00:12:38,399 --> 00:12:46,358 open the public hearing. Anybody for or against this proposal? Come up to the 148 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:48,378 podium. Sir, say your name. [snorts] [clears throat] 149 00:12:52,800 --> 00:13:01,440 Good afternoon. My name is Harvey Frierson and I'm 150 00:12:58,399 --> 00:13:09,360 are on the end there which is not listed on the map there regards to uh changes 151 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:17,279 and I are listening to so far what's going on with the uh town houses and I'm 152 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:20,000 like Mr. Akens years back in 1950 he developed that area 153 00:13:19,109 --> 00:13:28,480 [cough and clears throat] and my concern in 2026 154 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:35,120 is concern about 20 46 you coming in are changing up modifying 155 00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:40,639 the neighborhood if so should be able to afford it and my concern was that if 156 00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:46,160 they're going to plan I'm going to bring it to your attention now that street 157 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:51,519 likes should be your part of that planning. Sidewalks from Evans Creek to 158 00:13:49,279 --> 00:13:58,480 Evans Creek are back of the property is railroads 159 00:13:55,440 --> 00:14:04,720 and right now we're experiencing foxes and coyotes coming into the area and 160 00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:11,920 that should be concerned also. And Florence itself is growing yet 161 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:14,880 nobody mentioned the senior citizens. So if they're going to buy that 162 00:14:13,279 --> 00:14:21,680 property, I would like to see some senior citizen living in that area. 163 00:14:20,079 --> 00:14:27,199 Now when you grow old, you're going to be young. What about the playground for 164 00:14:23,839 --> 00:14:31,760 the children? So those my concern if that's intact with the planning, I have 165 00:14:29,519 --> 00:14:38,639 no problem. But right now, I want it to be known 166 00:14:34,959 --> 00:14:45,480 that this is what uh some of the residents who's not on that 167 00:14:41,199 --> 00:14:45,480 map is concerned about. 168 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:52,880 » Again, thank you for your opportunity to express my concern. 169 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:59,279 » Okay. Any questions, Mr. Chairman? >> Uh what house do you live in, sir? I 170 00:14:55,440 --> 00:15:05,875 live in the first house next to the uh I think it's ENT building. I've been there 171 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:08,000 perhaps about 20 years, 25 years. [clears throat] 172 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:11,120 » So is is your house >> the first one the blue house? 173 00:15:10,639 --> 00:15:13,600 » Yes, sir. >> It's it's in this proposed change. 174 00:15:13,199 --> 00:15:16,160 » No. >> No. In fact, 175 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,760 » you're outside of that. >> Yes, sir. 176 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:23,440 » Oh, okay. >> And I'll be affected also. If you look 177 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:29,600 at this zoning map, his is the first yellow parcel um next to the orange on 178 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:36,720 the right where they the the pieshaped parcels. Um it's tax map number 006. 179 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:41,120 » Okay. That's near the AT&T. >> Yes, sir. Next door to you. 180 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:44,800 » Yeah, I know what you're talking about. >> And and your concern is basically about 181 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,880 future use. >> Yes, sir. 182 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:50,240 » That's what you're voicing an opinion on. 183 00:15:47,199 --> 00:15:56,240 » Yes, sir. sidewalks, senior living, 184 00:15:53,759 --> 00:16:02,720 playground for the children or a shield against the railroad track 185 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:09,839 or ownership for driers as well as wild animals. 186 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:14,000 » All right. Thank you, sir. Any other questions? 187 00:16:12,639 --> 00:16:17,759 You good? I would need to recuse myself from this 188 00:16:16,079 --> 00:16:20,759 because I do have interest in this project. 189 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:25,680 » Okay. >> So, we just can't have your vote. All 190 00:16:25,279 --> 00:16:28,880 right. >> Right. 191 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:31,279 » Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. Anyone else here to speak on [snorts] this 192 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:33,920 proposal? >> Oh, would I be able to speak on the 193 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:37,440 proposal? >> Uh, or what does the 194 00:16:35,839 --> 00:16:40,000 » You would um >> Okay. 195 00:16:37,839 --> 00:16:45,839 » You'd have to go out there and Yeah. as a 196 00:16:42,399 --> 00:16:47,360 » point of order the audience for this for this [clears throat] particular case. 197 00:16:46,959 --> 00:16:50,959 Yes, >> point of order. Uh because she's 198 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:53,279 reclused herself, that only gives us four people. 199 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:56,480 » That's okay. >> So, we can still vote. As long as as 200 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,600 long as you start the meeting with a quorum, 201 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,160 » correct? [snorts] >> Everything's good. 202 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:04,720 » Yes, ma'am. State your name. >> My name is Xavier Sams and I have an 203 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:10,319 interest in this project. Um this current project the owner has other 204 00:17:07,039 --> 00:17:15,760 rentals and as part of the echo program which also helps those who with domestic 205 00:17:13,039 --> 00:17:21,600 violence. Um they also assist veterans and seniors in those rentals because 206 00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:26,047 this property has been is very dated. The solution would not be to renovate. 207 00:17:24,559 --> 00:17:30,000 It would be to have an effective [clears throat] 208 00:17:27,039 --> 00:17:33,840 living. Um, they currently have different things going on with them 209 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:37,600 where tearing down would be more effective as far as windows cost 210 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:44,640 effective and different things like that. So, as far as building back, 211 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:49,360 reszoning to NC 6.3 would give it more flexibility to build different things 212 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:54,960 back there. Um in talking with housing authority and also city some of the city 213 00:17:51,919 --> 00:18:00,880 council who is also um excited about this project as well. They mentioned 214 00:17:57,360 --> 00:18:09,280 that um there is not a lot of affordable housing for senior citizens and for 215 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:13,862 those who want to have some type of um when you have affordable housing they're 216 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:18,000 looked at in a negative type of way. Um, [snorts] so rebuilding these homes to 217 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:21,760 have I'm not gonna say upscale, but to have 218 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:27,440 different amenities that they would actually enjoy when these are going to 219 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:31,120 be rebuil rebuild back. >> What What else is in this area around 220 00:18:29,039 --> 00:18:35,520 these? Can you comment on that? Maybe you can. 221 00:18:31,679 --> 00:18:41,440 » Uh, Terminex was on the corner. Um, you have a CPA building. Um, it's like a 222 00:18:39,039 --> 00:18:46,000 it's right >> I can't reach it cuz I'm short, 223 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:51,840 » but at the very beginning right here you have a lot of different offices there as 224 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:56,400 well. Uh, and in front of it is the old health department. You can't even see 225 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:59,280 these homes from Evans Street. You have to literally drive in there in order to 226 00:18:58,559 --> 00:19:01,200 see it. >> There's commercial running already. 227 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:05,200 » Yeah. >> Mhm. 228 00:19:03,039 --> 00:19:10,160 » And you call that the Echo? What did you call it? Echo is a program for different 229 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:13,760 individuals who need housing. Okay. >> Affordable housing. 230 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:16,799 » And you also mentioned veterans too. Work with veterans. But put place 231 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:20,240 » it would be veterans placements. They already working with the veterans. They 232 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:24,559 work with uh senior citizens and they work with lowinccome also considering um 233 00:19:22,799 --> 00:19:27,039 housing authority as well. >> Okay. 234 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:30,080 » So that was sort of address some of the things he previous gentleman was 235 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:34,320 speaking about >> as the senior citizen population. That 236 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:38,000 is something that is noted. Um and looking at some of the different floor 237 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:43,280 plans that is being visited, that's why they have decided to do two primary 238 00:19:40,799 --> 00:19:47,039 bedrooms. If they were to rebuild, being that if there was a senior citizen who 239 00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:51,280 wanted to rent these, they would be accommodated on the first floor. Um a 240 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:54,960 lot of homes are now as a realtor here in Florence are going to 241 00:19:52,400 --> 00:20:04,000 multi-generational homes just to offset the cost of housing. So, we lack a lot 242 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:08,640 of affordable 4bedroom homes in Florence versus going back with the current one 243 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:13,200 which has three bedrooms and one bathroom. 244 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:16,320 » Okay. Any other questions? 245 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:20,799 » Now, he addressed the issue about sidewalks. 246 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:26,320 Are y'all planning on putting sidewalks there for them so they can walk around 247 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:30,640 that circle? That has not been discussed as part of development when it go comes 248 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:34,080 to zoning. So right now it's just in the reszoning phase. 249 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:38,080 » That will be addressed Elaine. What that would be addressed for in future. 250 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:42,080 » Yeah, I think it depends on the scale >> layout scale. Gotcha. Right. 251 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:44,159 » It may require sidewalks. It may not. Um but it depends on the scale of the 252 00:20:43,679 --> 00:20:47,039 development. >> But there's rules and regulations. Yeah, 253 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,520 there's rules and regulations you have to follow. 254 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:52,520 » And that is a DOT road. It's not a city road. 255 00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:03,760 So, you're planning on putting back single family living homes 256 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:09,400 because that's what's affected now, right? 257 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:09,400 » It has been discussed to add town homes. 258 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:15,120 » And you going to do single family homes also or this town? 259 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:19,080 » It would be town homes. >> Towns. 260 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:19,080 » All town homes. 261 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,559 Any [snorts] 262 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:36,640 other comments, questions for this young lady? 263 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:42,240 » So, where will you put the each lot? We have a townhouse. That's what you have. 264 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:46,320 » So, after zoning, um what was also discussed because of the setbacks, it 265 00:21:44,159 --> 00:21:50,080 would have to come back and have each parcel would have to be reserveyed. So, 266 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:56,159 some of the parcels may have to be combined because it the setbacks and 267 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:57,679 they're also the the lots are shaped funny. 268 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:02,515 » I see. >> Yep. 269 00:22:00,495 --> 00:22:02,515 [snorts] 270 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:13,520 » And it's on two sides of the street. So, on the inside is a pie shaped. on the 271 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:18,000 outside is actually you could do more with it, but the pies shaped is the one 272 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:21,400 that's going to limit that's going to limit everything. 273 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:32,320 » Yes, sir. >> No single family. 274 00:22:29,039 --> 00:22:41,760 And the reason being is that you can put more affordable housing as town homes to 275 00:22:37,039 --> 00:22:41,760 accommodate the growth of Florence. 276 00:22:44,799 --> 00:22:49,840 You put elevators in it because you got townhouse. You might have to have 277 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:53,760 stairs, right? >> You would have to have stairs in there. 278 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:58,559 » That's going to be good for >> Well, that's why there are two primary 279 00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:02,799 bedrooms. One on the first floor or two bedrooms on the first floor, two 280 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:10,520 bedrooms on the top floor. We're focusing on multi-generational as well. 281 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:10,520 So, it's a mixture of everybody. 282 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,799 All right. 283 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:21,280 » Any other questions for her? >> All right. Okay. Thank you. 284 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,960 » All right. Thank you. >> Um I'm going to close the public meeting 285 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:28,360 now. Um any discussion 286 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:34,159 before any discussion in options? Guys, >> can we reopen the public hearing or it's 287 00:23:33,919 --> 00:23:38,000 closed? >> That's up to the chairman. That's that's 288 00:23:35,919 --> 00:23:42,159 chairman. And we've heard both sides. to give both side equal equal amount of of 289 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:46,559 of time. So if there's no discussion amongst us, I'll call for a motion. 290 00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:48,480 » Move for adoption. >> Have a second. 291 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:51,840 » Second. >> Any discussion? 292 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:55,360 » All in favor say I. >> I. 293 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:59,480 » I. Motion passes. Okay. PC-2026-26. 294 00:24:02,159 --> 00:24:08,960 » All right. And what one point of order before we move on. The um the deferral 295 00:24:07,039 --> 00:24:12,640 of the Stratton Drive case, if you wouldn't mind bringing that to vote just 296 00:24:10,799 --> 00:24:15,120 to defer it so it carries forward to the next agenda. Sorry. 297 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:18,720 » All right. >> I'll make a motion to defer. 298 00:24:17,919 --> 00:24:20,080 » Second. >> All right. [laughter] 299 00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:22,480 » There it goes. >> It's deferred. 300 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:26,159 » Yeah. And everybody votes. Okay. Very good. It's 301 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:31,760 » all in favor. >> We're official. Good. 302 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:36,799 » Just to make sure everything's official. So, um, this is an amendment to a 303 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:41,279 proposed amendment to the unified development ordinance regarding, uh, 304 00:24:39,039 --> 00:24:48,240 noise and vibration regulations. And, and this one's a a little different in 305 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:52,799 that, um, this proposal would remove the noise ordinance section from the unified 306 00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:57,120 development ordinance, which is the zoning code that planning commission 307 00:24:54,799 --> 00:25:01,200 recommends on. But we would we have existing code also in the code of 308 00:24:59,039 --> 00:25:08,400 ordinances which city council takes action on. And um we we want to one put 309 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:14,559 it all in one place um so that it's easy for the public and for for our police 310 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:20,640 department who's enforcing this um to to comprehend and to use so it's all in one 311 00:25:16,799 --> 00:25:28,720 place. So we are um proposing that it be removed from the unified development 312 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:34,640 ordinance and the the key um pieces of that be combined into the existing code 313 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:39,200 in the code of ordinances. So, um, planning commission if they choose to 314 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:42,960 would be taking action to remove it from the unified development ordinance, but 315 00:25:41,039 --> 00:25:48,400 that would be contingent, I think, I think, on it being placed into the code 316 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:52,480 of ordinances by city council. And, um, this was brought to us by a member of 317 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:58,080 city council. And it kind of started with um, a recommendation to extend 318 00:25:56,000 --> 00:26:03,039 right now. Um there's there's different decibel levels which I'll go over here 319 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:08,559 in a second for um you know commercial districts and um residential districts 320 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:15,120 but um based on decibel levels that they have to be reduced to a certain time or 321 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:20,400 or a certain level um currently at 1000 p.m. um in our commercial districts and 322 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:27,760 it was proposed that that be extended to 11 p.m. and that so that change is in 323 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:31,440 here as a proposal. Um but also staff took it a step further and wanted while 324 00:26:29,679 --> 00:26:37,600 we're while we're touching the noise ordinance, we wanted to combine it all 325 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:43,760 into one easy to use document. So I'll um all of that was in your packet. Um 326 00:26:40,799 --> 00:26:49,440 but um essentially I we put in the packet what the um current uh unified 327 00:26:47,039 --> 00:26:54,640 development ordinance has in it. Um and that's showing as as struck through um 328 00:26:52,240 --> 00:27:00,000 in this because it would be removed. Um the key parts of of this code are the 329 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:04,159 decibel levels that is not in currently in the code of ordinances. But we 330 00:27:01,679 --> 00:27:08,480 thought it was important to tie that, you know, the sound to a measure um that 331 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:14,000 that a meter that we could actually, you know, that'll hold up in court or or if 332 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:17,520 even if the police just go out there and you know and you know they have that 333 00:27:15,919 --> 00:27:20,159 decibel meter and they can say, "Hey, it's exceeding that. would you quieten 334 00:27:19,120 --> 00:27:25,279 down? Because, you know, everything doesn't end up in court, but um they can 335 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:32,960 just get um instant, you know, folks to instantly quieten down. Um but the I did 336 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:38,480 want to show um you know, the code of ordinances are also in here. Um you 337 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:45,760 know, this is what city council would have control over. um these first 12 338 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:50,559 items, the the 10-9 and 10-10 and the first 12 items would remain unchanged. 339 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:55,120 Um that's as it currently reads in the code of ordinances. Um but then starting 340 00:27:53,120 --> 00:27:59,840 with 14 is where we start the incorporation of the unified development 341 00:27:57,039 --> 00:28:05,039 ordinance. We took um language specific to schools where they that out of the 342 00:28:01,919 --> 00:28:08,640 UDO and incorporated it um so that that you know between seven and four people 343 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:14,399 can't be making noise outside of schools. Um, and then we added number 344 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:18,240 17, which has to do with recreation, um, recreational motorized vehicles, you 345 00:28:16,559 --> 00:28:23,360 know, four-wheelers and go-karts and things like that, um, that that they 346 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:29,679 can't be making certain noise levels, um, in in neighborhoods and such. And 347 00:28:26,399 --> 00:28:33,600 then um under the exceptions, we incorporated some of the exceptions that 348 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:36,960 were in the unified development ordinance or all of the exceptions 349 00:28:35,120 --> 00:28:42,159 actually um such as construction activities and that's outlined um up in 350 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:47,120 1010. It has certain um time requirements on that. So you can you 351 00:28:44,159 --> 00:28:52,080 know perform um construction in the city and and the noise is accepted to that 352 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:57,919 basically during the daytime hours um as is acceptable. Um also um the noise 353 00:28:55,520 --> 00:29:02,000 emanating from a um that's temporary in nature like landscaping blowers, 354 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:06,000 lawnmowers and things. We all expect temporary noises from that within our 355 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:10,240 residential and commercial areas as well as agricultural equipment in the um in 356 00:29:08,399 --> 00:29:14,320 the appropriate agriculture zoning district. Uh also emergency warning 357 00:29:12,559 --> 00:29:21,279 devices, that's you know your police cars, ambulances, fire trucks. Um and 358 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:25,600 also um the um events that was already in there, but things like the pecan 359 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:30,240 festival or special events that we held downtown, but we did add some times to 360 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:34,640 that um because even though the city says it's okay, we should still follow 361 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:38,720 some rules. So we put from uh 7 a.m. to 1000 p.m. That doesn't give the city 362 00:29:37,279 --> 00:29:42,240 free will to go out there and run the pecan festival till 2 in the morning or 363 00:29:40,559 --> 00:29:48,000 anything. So we did put some times in there. And um and then we made reference 364 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:52,080 um to the appropriate section in the unified development ordinance there. 365 00:29:50,135 --> 00:29:59,840 [snorts] And um then everything in the uh the black font there is um already 366 00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:05,120 existing in the code. And then um these are all the sections regarding the uh 367 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:10,399 decibel levels and the times um that was taken from the uh unified development 368 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:15,200 ordinance and placed in there. Um the changes from the unified development 369 00:30:12,399 --> 00:30:20,640 ordinance to this document um are are that that first section there the one 370 00:30:17,279 --> 00:30:26,799 through four um the primaaci violation and um it that establishes um for the um 371 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:31,919 codes enforcement or or the police department who who's on the scene uh you 372 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:37,120 know a way to actually show that there's a violation. Um it it says that they 373 00:30:34,799 --> 00:30:41,600 have to have a a meter a decibel meter. Um it tells the scale by which it's 374 00:30:39,039 --> 00:30:46,320 measured. It's got the American National Standards Institute or ANIE. Um that the 375 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:50,399 you know the meter itself has to be certified by and it tells where it need 376 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:54,240 you know it needs to be taken at a reasonable location on the property 377 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:58,960 where the sound is occurring. So you know if I call that my you know that I'm 378 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:02,559 in my living room and I can hear my neighbor's kid playing the drums then 379 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:06,880 they basically need to come onto my property at a reasonable location and 380 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:11,360 and show that decel level. they don't need to go onto the neighbor's property 381 00:31:08,799 --> 00:31:18,799 to do that. So, it establishes things like that. Um and um the the one change 382 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:23,200 is that um you know from uh 7 to 10 in residential districts it has the 383 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:28,880 different decibel levels and then um in the commercial districts it's from 7:00 384 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:34,880 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. And just to um give you a um if I can might have lost my 385 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:37,760 sheet of paper here, but um the decel There it is. 386 00:31:37,919 --> 00:31:46,080 So to give you a gauge for decibel levels and this is decibel this is a 387 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:55,279 logarithmic scale. So um you know from 55 to 60 it is a huge increase u but you 388 00:31:51,919 --> 00:32:00,399 know a normal conversation um kind of with some or some background 389 00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:04,880 music um if you're in a um in a doctor's office or something like that would be 390 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:11,760 around 60 dB. So that's just kind of normal conversation, uh, normal kind of 391 00:32:07,519 --> 00:32:16,640 chatter. Um, if you're, um, and that's, you know, more in the range of what's 392 00:32:13,279 --> 00:32:23,120 acceptable in residential areas. Um, but then if you go up to commercial areas in 393 00:32:19,039 --> 00:32:27,120 that 75 range during the daytime, um, it it's talking about a vacuum cleaner, you 394 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:30,320 know, um, you remember when you were a kid watching cartoons and your mom was 395 00:32:28,799 --> 00:32:36,159 trying to vacuum and you couldn't hear the TV? That's the kind of noise that 396 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:41,039 that is is is that level of of noise. Um and then uh at night it would be 397 00:32:38,159 --> 00:32:45,840 expected to be 70 dB which is more like office noise or inside of a car at about 398 00:32:43,679 --> 00:32:50,960 60 m hour or so. So it's that kind of noise. And then industrial areas have a 399 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:56,080 a different decibel level but it's even quieter at night because most industries 400 00:32:53,760 --> 00:33:00,640 tend to shut down at at night and we don't have a ton of industrial areas 401 00:32:57,919 --> 00:33:05,760 within the city. Um but we did we did incorporate that chart um with the with 402 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:11,360 the change times into the proposal um within the um code of ordinances and we 403 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:16,720 also incorporated um some of the um other language about 404 00:33:14,799 --> 00:33:22,640 proposed barriers or structures that could be um incorporated and also 405 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:26,240 section um 10-xx. There I put an XX because we haven't assigned that a 406 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:30,720 number in the code of ordinances. Yes, but yet but um the code of ordinances 407 00:33:28,559 --> 00:33:34,399 didn't have anything referring to vibrations, but the unified development 408 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:40,640 ordinance did. So we took that section and put it in there as well. So, um that 409 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:46,480 outlines some of the proposed um changes and planning commission I I think if 410 00:33:43,279 --> 00:33:52,559 they choose to um uh move forward with this would propose to remove it from the 411 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:57,360 UDO um and then give council uh the ability to add it to the code of 412 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:59,760 ordinances here. So, and that concludes staff's report and I'm happy to answer 413 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:03,519 any questions. >> I have a question on [clears throat] the 414 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:07,440 decibb. I have a problem with decibb. So, I'll tell you right now, [laughter] 415 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:11,839 if me and Mr. Moses are outside having a barbecue at his house and we have our 416 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:16,159 wives there or kids, grandkids, whatever, you will exceed every decibel 417 00:34:14,639 --> 00:34:20,240 you have there. >> Without question. 418 00:34:17,359 --> 00:34:24,399 » All right. So, I have a very sensitive uh when it comes to decibel readings uh 419 00:34:22,240 --> 00:34:31,359 in Georgetown County. Um and I've actually proved my point. All right. Um 420 00:34:27,359 --> 00:34:33,919 so, uh I you this is too restrictive in my mind. I'm gonna tell you right now, 421 00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:38,000 it's too restrictive. And I'll tell you, I know at least one um uh city council 422 00:34:36,879 --> 00:34:43,440 members, I don't know what's going on with them, but um I don't I don't think 423 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:48,079 that uh when you start limiting, you know, um common sense, and a police 424 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:53,359 officer comes out, does this stuff, and you start putting decibels behind it, uh 425 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:56,720 decibb, you'd be surprised um in a in a normal conversation how you will exceed 426 00:34:55,440 --> 00:35:00,800 some of those that you guys come up with. So, um that was what I had say. 427 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:07,920 Any other any other comments or questions for Jerry? I'm with the same 428 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:12,960 thing also because see, you know, if uh if the police can come in my yard, tell 429 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:17,839 what's going on in the next yard, then we're going to have a lot of fines with 430 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:23,760 coming to uh to the to the person or stuff and then it's going I see where 431 00:35:21,839 --> 00:35:31,440 I see where you talking about that take like downtown you have you after five 432 00:35:28,720 --> 00:35:33,599 and it's after 7 o'lock. Am I right? I think it's over to 8. 433 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:37,200 » Yeah. >> And you you exceed that. That's because 434 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:41,119 you got a ban plan. >> Yeah. Well, for city events, it would be 435 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:43,520 till 10 p.m. So >> 10 p.m. 436 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:48,320 » which would align with Yeah. It would actually be ahead of what's proposed. 437 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:57,520 » Where's that 12:00 at? Um, we're proposing 11 p.m. for um the uh downtown 438 00:35:53,680 --> 00:36:02,720 area in general for for businesses and but for city events it would be 439 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:07,200 » this unified district is so strict with the city of Florence. We we got this 440 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:12,079 unified district. They got they're strict with a lot of thing here in 441 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:17,839 Florence. We let them have their way to run Florence and this is part of it 442 00:36:15,119 --> 00:36:21,680 right here. But see that unified district, we got to do something about 443 00:36:19,599 --> 00:36:26,079 unifi. I think that unified district is getting way out of hand. 444 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:31,440 » Well, are there any decimals current are any decibb currently in in ordinances? 445 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:34,800 » It it's currently in the unified development ordinance. We currently have 446 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:37,920 » But what levels? What >> these levels? I didn't change I did not 447 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:42,160 change the levels. That's what's currently on the books. I didn't I 448 00:36:40,079 --> 00:36:46,320 didn't touch that at all. I wouldn't I wouldn't feel comfortable voting on any 449 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:53,760 of this until I actually see the decel monitor and I know what 70 dB is, what 450 00:36:50,240 --> 00:37:01,599 80 is. I I get your point of saying us having a conversation is 60. 451 00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:04,400 If that's 60 I how is 80? I I don't know. And I I know 452 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:08,960 » demonstration. >> Yeah. I feel like I I mean just to cuz I 453 00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:15,920 feel like Yeah. I mean, I I get college football, they're like 120 dB. So, if 80 454 00:37:13,599 --> 00:37:21,839 if us having a conversation is 60 and that's 120, I I don't feel comfortable 455 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:25,599 knowing that I would understand exactly what 70 and 80 is. I think that you do 456 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:32,000 need to have some type of regulations and parameters on what is too loud and 457 00:37:30,079 --> 00:37:36,880 what's not loud enough. But me personally, I couldn't sign off on 458 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:40,079 anything until I actually saw the decibel meter 459 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:44,480 » and saw how it works. >> Well, right. Right. Now, so who has 460 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:49,839 control? So, who you mentioned they're two 461 00:37:46,240 --> 00:37:54,720 separate. So, who enforces each one? That's why it's co code the police 462 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:58,640 police have authority to enforce any of it and codes enfor codes codes 463 00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:04,079 enforcement division assist us with that typically and and this is very complaint 464 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:09,119 driven. This is not something we go out and find. I mean that that's just 465 00:38:06,720 --> 00:38:12,560 » full full honesty on that. We we don't the police department does not go out 466 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:19,359 searching for loud noises to to throw fines and and and you know throw tickets 467 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:22,960 at people. But when it's complaint driven, we do we do have to respond. 468 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:28,160 » I got you. But I But very specifically, the question I have combining these, 469 00:38:26,240 --> 00:38:32,800 » what what more restrictiveness are you adding or if if any All you're doing is 470 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:35,359 extending the time. Right. >> That's right. When I read through, 471 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:41,680 » there's really no change. It's just making [clears throat] it easier for the 472 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:48,079 public and for our our officers and and us in in planning and zoning to to have 473 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:53,520 all in one place. it it always used to reside in the the um code of ordinances. 474 00:38:51,599 --> 00:38:58,240 When we adopted the new the new unified development ordinance, it had the noise 475 00:38:55,599 --> 00:39:02,800 um section in it. Um we adopted that as part of it, but as we've applied it, it 476 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:05,359 gets a little confusing. There's a little bit of contradiction in it. 477 00:39:04,240 --> 00:39:08,720 » That's right. So, the four-wheers and the go-karts and all that, what what 478 00:39:07,119 --> 00:39:14,640 explain that to me a little bit more. What are you What are you referring to? 479 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:18,800 It's um so no person shall operate or cause to operate any recreational 480 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:24,240 motorized vehicle on a public rideway or a private property in a manner that it 481 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:30,000 that emitted sound levels exceeding 40 dB at or across the boundary of a 482 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:34,800 property receiving the noise. And um so it's essentially saying you can't run 483 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,960 » and that's in it currently or is that >> that's in the unified development 484 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:41,920 ordinance currently? >> Studio currently, right? 485 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:45,359 » Yeah. And we're we are open to any recommendations coming from planning 486 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:49,760 commission to to move forward or if we need to have a demonstration. 487 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:54,960 » I have a question. Where are the most complaints coming from 488 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:59,119 regarding this in this district >> in in our central business district in 489 00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:02,480 our downtown area? >> Sure. You have a few people outline that 490 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:05,680 call with you know >> Yeah. 491 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:10,800 a loud burp or something, you know, just occasionally we get um construction 492 00:40:07,599 --> 00:40:16,400 complaints from from projects going on um you know or or pumps that might run 493 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:22,880 at night in certain areas um you know throughout the city at various places. 494 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:26,720 But um but for mostly it's within our downtown district or or potentially 495 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:30,880 within some of our commercial districts where you know a a bar or a nightclub 496 00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:33,119 backs up to a neighborhood >> and you're adding vibration on this one, 497 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:36,400 right? >> Um vibration is currently in the unified 498 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:37,599 development ordinance. It would just get moved over. 499 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:41,680 » Yeah. >> So basically it's giving city council 500 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:45,280 control. >> Well, they have control over the uni. I 501 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:48,480 mean ultimately they vote on the unified development ordinance too but it would 502 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,920 be without planning commission's recommendation. 503 00:40:49,119 --> 00:40:56,960 » Yeah. >> So Ventura Court is also in the city and 504 00:40:53,520 --> 00:41:00,560 over there when the band is practicing at Wilson High School that's a lot of 505 00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:06,160 decibb >> but it's recreational of course it's 506 00:41:03,359 --> 00:41:12,000 extracurricular activities. Let's say a resident on Ventur Court 507 00:41:09,119 --> 00:41:15,040 to complain on the ban. What would that look like? 508 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:18,000 » They take that decimal meter out. >> Technically [laughter] the band 509 00:41:16,319 --> 00:41:21,599 technically the band is in Wilson is in the county. It's not in the city, right? 510 00:41:19,839 --> 00:41:24,400 » But you can but you can but you can Yeah, you can hear it in the 511 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:29,119 neighborhood through the trees. >> I hear that at my house. 512 00:41:25,359 --> 00:41:33,119 » I I love I loved hearing it. Yeah. >> But you may have someone who I think 513 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,800 we'd be forced to deal with it based on the current the codes we have on the 514 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,920 book >> on the current stuff that I think all 515 00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:41,520 this is doing is just taking it out of our hands. We have no say in it. with 516 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:46,960 the city council ultimately has a you know they are elected leaders. All 517 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:50,880 right. So um but it it it combines everything and we we don't that's not in 518 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,240 our purview anymore. Is that correct? That's how that's what we're doing here. 519 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:56,000 Right. >> Mhm. 520 00:41:53,359 --> 00:42:01,200 » Now they would have to take away or amend or add whatever they wanted. Um 521 00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:04,480 but you couldn't crank up a four-wheeler anywhere else currently in the city. I 522 00:42:03,119 --> 00:42:08,160 mean, if somebody pressed it, you know, I mean, you there's and I I I understand 523 00:42:06,720 --> 00:42:12,079 if I'm trying to sleep and I work third shift, 524 00:42:09,359 --> 00:42:16,240 » you know, bike, I get it. I get it. You know, if I'm downtown and, you know, 525 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:20,960 wherever and the band's kicking up, I, you know, 526 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:26,000 » I get it. So, I I think there's uh I think if you're an elected official, 527 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:30,560 there's consequences uh to what you do and what you don't, and that's what 528 00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:35,440 elections are for. Um, but I I I think uh I think that uh personally I think I 529 00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:39,920 don't like any restrictions at all, but they're already there. So I think elect 530 00:42:37,599 --> 00:42:43,040 officials should be able to >> make the ultimate decision on that 531 00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:45,680 because their constituents are voting for them. 532 00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:48,960 » Um we're just a recommended body to begin with, you know. So 533 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:53,680 » I get your point too, my man. I I completely, you know, it's listen from 534 00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:57,760 60 to 80 it it's graduated. What what he means is when you talking like this and 535 00:42:55,280 --> 00:43:01,119 it keeps going up it it's like a 3 to one 401 5 to1 ones it goes up higher for 536 00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:05,520 hearing you know >> but it it ain't much I'm telling you 537 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:11,440 it's not it's not much so anyway any any other discussion 538 00:43:07,359 --> 00:43:16,560 » or any other comments what what do y'all with we have to agree on this to send it 539 00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:21,280 back to city council or we'll defer to tell the city council come back with 540 00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:24,000 some more information about desk >> well I mean I think 541 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:29,359 » that I mean, I think you need to take action on it, either for or against it. 542 00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:34,560 Um, or you could defer it or you could defer it and ask staff, you know, to do 543 00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:37,760 more research in a certain area if we need that. 544 00:43:36,319 --> 00:43:42,560 » And I think there's there's multiple options. 545 00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:45,359 » I mean, I read through all of it and when I read through some of I'm going 546 00:43:43,839 --> 00:43:46,720 this this stuff's already in effect. I'm going Jesus. 547 00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,119 » Yeah. >> It's already this is already in the 548 00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:51,760 books of law. You know, I start reading this stuff. I had no idea. 549 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:54,720 » See, that's where they're changing it. Well, no, they're not changing. Well, 550 00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:57,599 they're extending some of the hours, but this this stuff is going to be in effect 551 00:43:56,160 --> 00:44:00,480 one way or the other. It's already in effect. They're just trying to combine 552 00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:03,440 it under one. >> We are, 553 00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:07,440 » you know, instead of us being involved recommending luckily, we don't have to 554 00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:11,359 enforce this very much. I mean, it doesn't come to light, but if it did, we 555 00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:13,680 we we would have to because it's on the record. 556 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:17,359 » That was my next point is how we don't have to enforce it. It's just a rule. 557 00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:20,400 » That's right. We It's It's very complaint driven. 558 00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:23,680 » And I think that you're cleaning it up a good bit, right? for when you combine 559 00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,200 the other things that's being cleaned up. 560 00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:27,200 » We're trying to clean it up. That's right. Yeah. 561 00:44:26,079 --> 00:44:30,400 » Mhm. So, [clears throat] all the rules are basically there. You only extend it 562 00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:32,640 one hour. So, so these rules are already in place. Nothing we can do about that, 563 00:44:32,240 --> 00:44:35,520 right? >> That's right. 564 00:44:33,359 --> 00:44:38,160 » Defining them a little bit more. >> As a planning commission, you can you 565 00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:41,760 can recommend >> you take the bull by the horns and 566 00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:45,760 » Yeah, we could go at it. What you do? Because 567 00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:49,839 » let them come make me some more decimals going be higher stuff. It's we just 568 00:44:48,240 --> 00:44:54,160 don't go ahead and put it in there because real they open the door for us 569 00:44:52,240 --> 00:44:56,800 » and let's keep that door open while we can 570 00:44:54,960 --> 00:45:00,800 » until they come up with something else. You know, they open the door. 571 00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:03,839 » Do we have a motion to have a motion to defer? 572 00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:07,599 » Motion to defer. We have a second. >> Second. 573 00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:10,640 » Any discussion? All in favor? >> I. 574 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:14,880 » Any opposed? >> It's deferred. Okay. I think we just get 575 00:45:12,720 --> 00:45:18,400 a little more little more >> little more, you know, background and 576 00:45:16,319 --> 00:45:21,520 being comfortable with it and and >> Okay. And that'll give planning 577 00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:26,720 commission some extra time to review what's what's in place and um 578 00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:30,319 » so let me ask you this. If we come back uh like Mr. Moses, I think what I get 579 00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:33,839 what he's saying, >> how could some of this be changed by us 580 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:37,119 if we make a recommendation that things are changed? Is that is that way it 581 00:45:35,839 --> 00:45:42,240 works? I mean, >> I think um I think because it's tied 582 00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:48,480 currently to the UDO, I think that does give you guys some say so in it. Um and 583 00:45:45,119 --> 00:45:54,000 what I would do is I would um I would take any recommendations that are made 584 00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:58,480 in your motion um for this and put it in the staff report and present it to city 585 00:45:55,680 --> 00:46:01,520 council at that time. >> And I think that would be good. I mean, 586 00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:06,240 I think if I mean, I think it's a good opportunity. We, as Mr. Moses said, 587 00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:09,119 "We've opened the door and we kind of thought this might happen that that 588 00:46:07,599 --> 00:46:13,440 planning commission might have some say so in it and um for for you guys to have 589 00:46:11,839 --> 00:46:16,319 some input in it and have some recommendations." 590 00:46:14,319 --> 00:46:19,839 » Mr. Mo, so the motion you made, we all approved. Can we just add to that motion 591 00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,839 of what we're talking about? >> That's up to you to make it take care of 592 00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:25,599 you. >> I'd like to add I'd like to to add to 593 00:46:23,839 --> 00:46:30,000 the motion Mr. Moses and everybody voted for. What's some of the things if Jerry 594 00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:35,839 can just list them out that we that we want to look at? Now I for one 60 80 dB 595 00:46:33,119 --> 00:46:40,960 I mean that's that's me and him you know having a conversation about football and 596 00:46:38,319 --> 00:46:46,000 that that's you know that can get a little I mean you're you're in violation 597 00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:51,200 you know what I mean and and so what would you anybody want to suggest but 598 00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:56,000 what we need to do we need to verify what what's the decimate we got to come 599 00:46:53,520 --> 00:47:00,240 up on that we got to be educated on that that's number one and then we as a group 600 00:46:58,720 --> 00:47:02,880 I think we as a group need to get together. 601 00:47:00,720 --> 00:47:07,760 » Sure. Well, h how about a staff comes back to us with examples of Jay, I don't 602 00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:10,400 know how to do it. Just just sound and decibb. Um 603 00:47:08,720 --> 00:47:14,400 » yeah, we we can see we can do two things. We can one, we can we can look 604 00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:17,680 and see what other municipalities have in place as far as decibel levels. So, 605 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:21,839 we can put that in a chart so you guys can see what other places have that that 606 00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:25,280 that do it by decibb. And we could possibly also do a demonstration where 607 00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:28,880 we might could get bring in a decibel meter and have some sounds and show show 608 00:47:27,119 --> 00:47:31,520 y'all what that looks like. We'd like to add that. I would like to add that. 609 00:47:31,119 --> 00:47:33,680 » Got it. >> Yeah. That way everybody hears it 610 00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:35,760 firsthand. >> Yeah. 611 00:47:34,079 --> 00:47:39,359 » Anybody else having comments or we good on that? You look you want to say 612 00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:43,760 something? >> Sure. I understand. 613 00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:50,240 » So So let me get this straight. Um ultimately the um unified development 614 00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:55,040 ordinance. Uh the ultimate goal is to move it into the code of ordinances 615 00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:58,000 which would take it away from this. >> It would take it out of the zoning code 616 00:47:56,480 --> 00:48:01,680 and put it in the in the code of ordinance. ordinances. That's right. 617 00:47:59,920 --> 00:48:05,920 » Which would be well everything's governed by the city council. Yeah. 618 00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:10,560 » But it just go straight to city council. >> That's right. That's right. And and and 619 00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:15,680 to be honest, it is most municipalities and counties it noise ordinances are 620 00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:19,200 housed in the code of ordinances. It's just, you know, these bits and pieces of 621 00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:24,720 it got put in the the new code when we adopted it. Yeah. So in in most places 622 00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:28,960 that is where it resides. Um so we we thought it best to just combine it in 623 00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:33,200 that category there. Okay. So, if we could if we could kind of 624 00:48:31,119 --> 00:48:37,200 » chisel at it while we got a chance, this is probably a good opportunity to do it. 625 00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:43,520 » I also would like to add um other municipalities their 626 00:48:40,079 --> 00:48:47,680 uh decibel ordinances. Well, not decel ordinance, the same thing. 627 00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:49,119 » The amounts the amounts of, >> you know. 628 00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:52,880 » Yeah. Sure thing. Yeah. >> Their version of this [laughter] 629 00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:55,520 » the upper limits of the decimals and stuff like that. 630 00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:59,839 » Yeah. Sure thing. We've um we we've looked at a good many and we we can 631 00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:04,079 organize that into a little chart. >> Thank you. 632 00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:07,280 » Anything else, guys? Nothing. >> That's [laughter] right. 633 00:49:05,599 --> 00:49:11,200 » I know I can't hear as well as I used to. Probably because of some of these 634 00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:16,400 loud noises. [laughter] >> It's the low. It's the low vibrations 635 00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:22,200 here. All right. Thank you guys. Okay. Um so, uh let's do PC-2026-27. 636 00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:27,280 Do we have to vote on that to defer? >> Oh, we added it. 637 00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:29,520 » We already voted further. We added >> Yeah. And I just got some direct from 638 00:49:28,720 --> 00:49:32,520 planning commission. >> Yeah. 639 00:49:32,720 --> 00:49:37,200 » All right. All right. How is everybody? >> Good. 640 00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:42,480 » Live it. Now, let's go. >> Over the next [laughter] 45 minutes, I'd 641 00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:49,200 like to explain the Palm Subdivision. Now, this is uh the Palm Subdivision 642 00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:54,880 sketch plan. If this looks familiar, >> this was approved by planning commission 643 00:49:51,920 --> 00:50:00,720 back in 2023. Uh back then we were looking at 179 total lots, higher 644 00:49:58,079 --> 00:50:06,319 density. The developer is coming back with uh a different product uh than what 645 00:50:04,079 --> 00:50:13,920 we've typically seen on the on the market right now. So it will be uh 39 646 00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:19,359 lots as opposed to the 179. Uh, so here's a location map. Everything's 647 00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:24,160 zoned RG2. It is historically the Oakdale Golf Course. So this is an 648 00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:29,800 infill development around existing single family detached homes and that is 649 00:50:26,319 --> 00:50:29,800 what is proposed. 650 00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:38,240 So here's the sketch plan. I printed out the latest and greatest. 651 00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:43,920 So they are looking for a conventional single family type development. Uh in 652 00:50:41,359 --> 00:50:47,119 the staff report we said 42 were shown. Uh it got reconfigured a little bit just 653 00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:55,200 to make sure we were meeting all the minimum lot widths and uh lot areas for 654 00:50:51,359 --> 00:51:00,480 the RG2 subdivision and those are uh 80 foot lot widths and 10,000 square ft um 655 00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:05,440 which is what is shown in the sketch plan now. So the setbacks that will be 656 00:51:03,839 --> 00:51:12,000 observed will be 25 ft in the front, 8t on the 657 00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:18,160 side, uh 12 feet for street side and 25 ft in the rear. Uh water is available to 658 00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:24,720 the property. Sewer is not uh the individuals when they build the homes 659 00:51:20,720 --> 00:51:29,599 will request from uh sedes which used to be dehack to have uh septic tanks 660 00:51:28,079 --> 00:51:33,599 installed. Uh so no new infrastructure will be 661 00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:38,160 installed by the developer. City water and storm water infrastructure is 662 00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:43,359 already in place. Uh compliance will still do inspections 663 00:51:40,319 --> 00:51:50,319 uh along the way. Uh the proposed subdivision does not require a traffic 664 00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:54,480 study. It is under the 50 lot threshold. Um and um 665 00:51:53,905 --> 00:51:58,960 [snorts] we just asked the engineer to kind of 666 00:51:56,319 --> 00:52:03,920 clean up some of the parcel shown to show what was proposed versus what was 667 00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:09,520 existing. And we feel he's done a good job of that. Uh staff erroneously 668 00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:14,559 thought that with the first sketch plan they were using Lake Oakdale to get 669 00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:18,720 density bonuses from preserving the open space. Lake Oakdale is still going to be 670 00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:23,440 preserved. is still in the hands of the homeowners association. The developer 671 00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:27,839 just feels that it's the right time in the market for 672 00:52:25,119 --> 00:52:34,079 maybe some larger parcels and to give a little more choice uh to the citizens of 673 00:52:31,359 --> 00:52:41,680 Florence for uh different housing products. So the engineer did turn in a 674 00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:45,920 revised set of plans which is what's in front of you now and it does meet all 675 00:52:44,559 --> 00:52:51,546 the guidelines of the unified development ordinance. So that concludes 676 00:52:47,839 --> 00:52:55,520 staff's report. Okay. [clears throat] 677 00:52:53,040 --> 00:53:01,200 » All right. This is a not a public hearing. 678 00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:05,839 Any questions for staff? >> So you said it went from 42 to 39. Yep. 679 00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:10,800 » Right. [snorts] Right. We just um I think it was just a 680 00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:14,400 choice of the engineer and the developer. It was not anything mandated 681 00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:20,920 by the city. They were meeting the minimum standards that are required in 682 00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:20,920 RG2. 683 00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:32,480 » So bigger lots, single family homes. Mr. Moses, 684 00:53:29,839 --> 00:53:36,520 » these are generousized lots. These are very generous size lots. 685 00:53:36,559 --> 00:53:42,559 » All right. Any other questions? >> Essentially, it would get rid of the 686 00:53:40,559 --> 00:53:46,480 golf course itself. Right. >> Right. The infill development. Yes, sir. 687 00:53:45,119 --> 00:53:52,599 » Golf courses no more. >> Yes. Not being 688 00:53:48,559 --> 00:53:52,599 » any other questions, comments? 689 00:53:53,117 --> 00:53:57,599 [laughter] >> All right. I'll call for a motion. 690 00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:59,040 » I'll make a motion approved. >> Second. 691 00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:02,800 » I second. >> Any discussion? 692 00:54:01,119 --> 00:54:06,720 All in favor say I. I. >> I. 693 00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:08,559 » Any oppose? Eyes have it. >> Second. 694 00:54:07,119 --> 00:54:13,079 » All right, that's done. That's done. Motion to journ is good to go.