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[music]

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Good evening at 6 o'clock. We'll call
the meeting to order. Abby, are you

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taking the role?
>> Sure. Commissioner Applic

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» here.
>> Commissioner Goodwin,

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» present.
>> Commissioner Steeler

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» here.
>> Commissioner Young

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» here.
>> Commissioner Wagner

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» here.
>> Vice Chair Stender

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» here. and chair dread
>> here. We're asking if you're able please

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stand and join us for the pledge of
>> allegiance

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to the flag of the United States of
America and to the stands nation.

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Chair is looking for a motion to approve
the agenda as presented or with changes.

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» Move to approve.
>> I have a motion to approve. I have a

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second.
>> Second.

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» I have a motion in a second. It's a
non-debatable motion. All those in favor

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signify by saying I.
>> I.

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» Opposed.
Abstensions.

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Motion carries.
We've come to the open form.

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» Could you let some folks know there are
still some seats in the front? Oh, just

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like church. We got seats in the front
row, close to the front there.

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» Act like you like each other.
>> Yeah.

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» Sure.

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» Thank you.
We've come to the open forum part of the

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meeting. This is where we ask anyone in
the audience that would like to come up

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and spend a couple minutes giving their
thoughts on any issue. We'd be happy to

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hear from them. I have a list that we
will start with that goes down in order.

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Once we have been through the list, if
anyone else wishes to talk, you will

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welcome you up to the podium. And when
you finish, please sign this sheet when

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you're done. So, with that, um, you do
need to come up and state your name and

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address for the record and spend just a
couple minutes. got a lot of people here

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and I don't think we want to be here
till tomorrow, but we're interested in

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what you have to say. So, I have Daniel
Bud Budkkey and I apologize in advance

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for all the names I massacred tonight
at 4926210th.

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Sir,
again, start you you can state your name

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and address for the record. Daniel
Budkey 4926 210th Street North Forest

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Lake Minnesota 55025
part of the Southside Clear Lake

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neighborhood.
Uh I guess we're just all here I would

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assume to try to object to the building
of this multi-tenant housing unit which

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none of us are really looking forward
to. Um I want to bring up two quick

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points. I don't want to be here all
night. I'm not going to lecture for

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long. My two quick points are this.
Number one is simply that the it's going

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to directly hinder or possibly destroy
the already deteriorating water quality

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of our lake. And it's well all over well
documented the uh Minnesota DNR website.

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Uh really quick couple things. I got
this off Minnesota Pollution Control

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Agency this morning that the mercury and
PFOS PFOS in the lake are already

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extremely high and unsafe. We're only
allowed to have one serving of fish now

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per month safely. That's what's
recommended. And in fact, they even

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said, and I have right here that uh
let's see, species, all species are

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contaminated. Do not eat all sizes. And
it says PFOS and mercury is also

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involved per the Minnesota Pollution
Control Agency. Obviously, runoff from

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this facility would greatly hinder the
health of the lake. Um the marsh land

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that would be filled in to build this
complex

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can't be simply moved somewhere else
because

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it's directly located between highway 97
and the lake. That lake is then filtered

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through the marsh. The runoff from 97
filtered through the marsh. The all the

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phosphorus and all the chemicals which
are greatly filled naturally through

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that marsh into the lake. So, if this is
removed, it can't be replaced. You can't

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just simply move it somewhere else in a
Forest Lake, somewhere in a corn field

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or whatever, and have it filter into our
lake, which is already contaminated via

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the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency
and the Minnesota DNR. It's

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broadly documented per those two
websites. So, I think a lot of people

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are going to talk to the health a little
late coming up, so I can stop now. on

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that. My main concern though, however,
is far uh graver. Uh it's the traffic

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load at Everton and 97. Now, if you all
look at the monitors, I have a Google

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Earth image of the previous
layout of the intersection.

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Now, note note the um left turn lane
from eastbound Highway 97

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to northbound Everton.
You see? And then if you look at the

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left turn lane on westbound 97 towards
southbound Everton, you see how those

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two directly line up face to face. All
these years we've been turning left and

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never given a thought about it because
if there's a semi park there turning

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left into Quick Trip and we're heading
eastbound turning north on Everton, we

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can still see any vehicle in front of
us. We can still see down the road. You

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see what I'm saying? Now, this is the
new layout.

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You see how it's offset?
Now, that is a design flaw or something

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MDOT didn't catch. I don't know. But
now, the brief period has been opened.

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I've almost been t-boned several times
taking that left turn because now you

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are blinded by any vehicle turning left
into Quick Trip or turning left into

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Southbound Everton. You cannot see
beyond that vehicle.

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And especially if it's a large truck, a
box truck, a bus, a semi, anything

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larger than a standard small car. And
even then, you're injured. It's an

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incredibly dangerous situation already.
And now you want to pile 228, possibly

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500 residents, 228 apartments, 500
residents piled in there, probably with

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mult, you know, all with cars. And
they're all going to be piling in,

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taking that left turn during rush hour
in the afternoons when people are doing

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60 m hour, 70 mph down this road. And at
60 m hour, a car travels 210 I mean,

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sorry, uh 105 ft in 1 second. At 60 m
hour, there's no way you're going to see

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those cars coming. You got to inch out.
And in one second, in two seconds, that

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car is 210 ft behind you or behind the
obstacle. You can't see it. It's not

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possible. So, in the two seconds it
takes you to inch out into that

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intersection, you're done. And it's
going to happen. If you load overload

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this intersection with people, someone's
going to die.

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Someone's going to get killed. Hands
down. The only reason that hasn't

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happened, as I showed you earlier, we
could see all these years, you could

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easily turn left safely. Now, you can
because of this design.

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So, if you overload that right there,
people are not going to be able to see.

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People are going to be rushing. And I
know what you're thinking. You're going

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to say, "Well, we'll just put up a turn
on green arrow only sign up." Hey,

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problem solved, right? No. Makes it just
as dangerous in a different way. Then

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what happens is they shortened the left
turn lane now. So, this new design is

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shorter. So the cars pile up quicker and
now because it's so overloaded with

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people that you're going to go out in
the main uh flow of traffic in that main

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lane and we all know it's all backed up
almost all the way to light several

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times all the way to the light in
Columbus.

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So now people are going to get
frustrated and they're going to jam out

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onto the shoulder saying, "Well, I'm
going right. I'm going to turn into a

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quick trip anyway. I don't need to wait
in this and someone else can have the

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same idea and they're going to hit.
Someone's going to get rear ended or god

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forbid someone's going to go up on the
pedestrian path and hit somebody on a

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bike or walking an elderly couple taking
a walk, a baby in a stroll. Who knows?

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It's going to happen. And these cars are
not doing 60. They're doing 70.

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So, I'm just telling you, this is an
incredibly dangerous situation. Left

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turn on green arrow isn't going to solve
the problem by any stretch of the

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imagination. It doesn't matter. And that
traffic is going to pile all the way

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back up
to the highway almost every single rush

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hour every single day, especially on
Friday afternoons when everyone's

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jamming to the cabin.
So this creates an incredibly dangerous

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situation and someone's going to be
killed. So your decision here today is

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immense.
Someone's life in this room probably

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depends on it. And statistically
speaking, it does. So don't make the

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wrong choice. I'm telling you, this
can't go through. Move it somewhere. I'm

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not saying don't build the thing. I'm
saying just pivot. Move somewhere. The

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land can be repurposed. Reszone perhaps.
We can always reszone. Nice high-end

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homes. Perfect. Done. No pressure on the
intersection.

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No pressure [clears throat] on the
resources really. So, that's what I want

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to say.
>> Thank you for your time.

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[applause]

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I will ask for decorum. There will be no
clapping, cheering, etc. We need to get

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through this.
Please let everyone just comment. With

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that, we have Dana Bona.
Did I pronounce it?

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» Yep.
>> My name is Dana Bona. Um, I live at

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505010th Street North, Forest Lake,
Minnesota. I've lived there since 1999.

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I was born and raised in Forest Lake. I
was born here in 74. I resided over at

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456 Southshore Drive my entire life. I
love Forest Lake. Um I'm a little

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emotional because I'm really upset about
this. I purposely lived out we bought

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out at Clear Lake because of the fact
that it was kind of getting out in the

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country, but yet I was still in the
city. The lake was small. It wasn't

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overcrowded like I grew up on Forest
Lake where we couldn't water ski. Um the

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lake was a clean lake. No weeds, none of
the other crap going on. And when I come

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home to find out that we're trying to
build an apartment complexes at the end

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of my road and I don't want that. I
don't want the riff raff. You don't want

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the riff raff. And you can honestly tell
me we were here in what 22 I think it

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was the headarters you guys were in
section 8 housing in. There was a huge

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fight about that one and we were assured
by the city council, oh it won't it'll

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be great. It'll be fine. We're going to
overcome this. We're going to cover it.

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There won't be any problems. And the
following year, the Force Lake Times

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wrote that over 50% of our police force
calls were being sent to that section 8

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housing. So the rest of Forest Lake,
we get the other 50% of the police and

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now we're going to add more housing over
here. That's apartments. And I know

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right now you're all like, "Oh, it's
just apartments, guys. Don't worry. It's

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not just apartments. Our city has one of
the highest of rental. We're at 23 to

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25% depending on the month and the the
non occupancy. That's a high amount of

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rental already. And for the arch police
force and our fire departments and

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things like that to have to cover that
entire area and we were talking what 21

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you guys were trying to dismantle our
police department? I mean, what are we

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going to do? Just let them run a muck
and the next thing that's going to

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happen is, oh, this apartment buildings
are no longer for just apartment

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buildings. They're going to be section 8
because now the city can get more money

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off that. I don't want that. I don't
want the riff raff coming down and

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burglarizing my cars, which I hear our
friends on the south side or on the

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north side have a problem from the
section 8 housing wandering into their

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neighborhoods and riff rafting. They
have to make sure their cars are locked.

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I don't have to make sure my car is
locked. My cars are left unlocked right

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now. Hell, my front door is unlocked
right now. I know every person around my

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lake that's sitting here today, we go
out, we pontoon, tie up, we do things

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together. We're all really tight. We
don't want this apartment complex here.

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This apartment complex is going to bring
the crowd that we don't want for psych

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to be erected. This is a town where your
kids can walk the streets. Now we have

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drugs that we have to worry about.
There's talk that the police are having

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to watch loves because they're a traffic
jam for drug drive. The mules drop off

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the drugs there and the rest run up to
Duth. I mean, this is just getting

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worse. What are we going to do? This is
our foot. We're putting it down. I will

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tell you this. our neighborhood is this
strong and this tight. We've already

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started interviewing attorneys. I am
aware by two different attorneys. There

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are precedents in the state of Minnesota
where personal parties hired attorneys

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and sued the city to stop them from
doing something like this. And if that's

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what we have to go to, we have to go to
But they did win. The city actually was

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a were sued for the devalument of those
properties. This apartment building will

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devalue my property. every one of my
neighbors properties because now you

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have to constantly have the police out
there. The police right now come out

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there and if they're sitting there
writing their paperwork, we're giving

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them water. Pop, how you doing? That
isn't why they're going to be there in

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the future. They're going to be there
because somebody's stuff got broken

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into, stuff got wrecked. I don't want
that. That's not what I want to be. I

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don't want to be in the forake times
because our block got vandalized.

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Do you guys want in your houses? Do you
want me to build an apartment building

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right down in your neighborhood? I can
honestly say I know each and every one

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of you don't want that.
So, I'm begging you, please think about

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if this was your neighborhood and I was
the one, some developer saying, "Hey,

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I'll give you some money. I can make
your life real easy. I can make you guys

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meet budget. There's other ways to meet
budgets for the city than doing this to

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us." Because once it starts with us,
we're just the first pipeline of the

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city going to hell. And I don't want it
to be. And there are towns out there

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that have said, "We're not going to have
this. We need to be that town. We need

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to say, "We've done this. That area is
done. We're not doing it anymore. It

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will kill our neighborhood. You will
kill the south side of the lake." I'm

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begging you, please think about that and
take care of us in that tune.

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Thank you.
>> Thank you,

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» Kathy Rodville.
I correct on that.

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Hi, I'm [clears throat] Kathy Rodold. I
live on the Southshore on 4946 210th

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Street. And I'm going to build a little
bit on what Dan had to say. It's bad

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enough with what's going to happen with
the traffic jam at 97 in Everton. What

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about all these people that are going to
be able to go in and out off of Everton?

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That's a small little road and a few
houses down from there, it goes onto a

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dirt road. There's no way it's going to
be able to handle the kind of traffic

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that's going to want to come in and out
of there. That right now that community

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pe the kids can bike ride, they can
walk, you can walk your baby, you can

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talk to your neighbors. It's a quiet
small community. It's a quiet small lake

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and this is a small area of land on off
the southwest corner of our lake that

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will destroy what a wonderful place this
is. You know, right now we're safe and

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we're not going to be safe if you put
that in. It's just the way it is.

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There's just no possible way that that
will happen. I understand progress has

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to be made. Maybe some building done,
but do you have to come on and off of

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Everton? Can you go out to the frontage
road? Can you make bigger access off of

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97? Something where you're not going to
pull all that traffic in our

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neighborhood. And with the construction
that's gone on on Highway 97, when they

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did the park by Quick Trip, well, people
don't think they have to go around our

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neighborhood. They come on on Falcon and
they come flying down 210th until they

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see, oh, we can't get out back onto 97.
And now that that part of 97 is open and

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it's closed by Falcon, every day there's
somebody that comes down Everton, comes

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flying down 210th until they see they
can't go out. Well, people aren't going

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to want to wait at that intersection and
they're not going to that's only

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right-hand turns in and out of 97. The
way in and out of that area is going to

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be off of Everton. the majority of the
traffic and that is going to put all of

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us at huge risk. So my neighbors all
have something else to say. I beg you do

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not do this. Thank you for your
comments. Rob Olsen.

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00:17:12,946 --> 00:17:15,621
[cough]
[clears throat]

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00:17:17,199 --> 00:17:22,640
» Good evening members of the planning
commission. My name is Rob Olsen. I live

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at 21700
Fondant Avenue along with my wife

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Ginger. Uh, I'm like a lot of people. I
mean, we live on the lake on the

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northeast side. I I guess a couple
things. When we received everything, I

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from what I could understand, there
hasn't been an informal environmental

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impact review of this. There sounds like
there maybe hasn't been a traffic study

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like the gentleman had talked about. I'd
never even I drove over there before

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this with my neighbor and looked at it
because we were kind of wondering where

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is this anyways and you know Everton and
then we drove down the little private

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dirt road I guess that we probably
shouldn't have gone on and it's it seems

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like you're shoehorning quite a bit into
an area that has a lot of lowlands. So

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the concern I have is the effect upon
the lake. You know the runoff to the

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lake and
is there going to be the same And so I

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would ask that the planning commission
would insist on further environmental

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studies to look at it because you know
you know I like everybody I have concern

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00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:31,200
for the quality of the water in that
lake. Uh I'm not excited about the fact

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00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:36,320
that we can't eat the fish we used to
but I know that has nothing to do with

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00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:40,799
this complex but it is going to have 480
cars. I was kind of astounded by that

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00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:46,799
that, you know, you're talking a pretty
decent size apartment complex and that's

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00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:51,520
a lot of vehicles, a lot of runoff. How
is that going to be taken care of so it

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doesn't go into the lake? Uh, also, as
the gentleman said about the traffic, I

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think there really does need to be a
traffic study or something done to

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Everton because, you know, when I first
heard Everton, I said, "Yeah, Everton,

250
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:05,760
that's a big road." But then when you
turn right, it's not a very big road.

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00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:10,559
when you turn to the north when I say
right. Uh so I'd ask that that also be

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00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:15,919
considered by the county the highway
engineers whoever the city that does

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00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:20,559
that type of stuff. So uh just instead
of I don't believe that this is the

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00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:25,520
stage in the process where anybody's got
an application for actually approval.

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00:19:23,039 --> 00:19:31,039
This is more just a information type
meeting unless I'm wrong. Uh but it to

256
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:36,559
that extent I'd ask that any approvals
be subject to further environmental

257
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studies and further traffic studies.
Thank you. Thank you.

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00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:44,039
Ian shortly.

259
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:51,960
» Uh and your name?

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» I didn't hear Barb. I'm sorry.
>> Yeah,

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00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:06,480
» I I I crossed you off. I I checked you.
I didn't cross you off. I checked you

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00:20:04,559 --> 00:20:11,520
off that you had already spoke. So, my
apologies. You're next then because you

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00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:16,348
were Barb, you were
third on the list. So, my apologies.

264
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:18,368
Come on up.
[snorts]

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00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:29,039
» I'm Barb Bassie and I live on 4864 210th
Street. And for those of you who don't

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know the area, it's uh you know,
everybody's talking Everton, but when

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00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:40,080
you take a right, all those homes are on
210th Street. And I we we all know how

268
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:44,559
people just race on that street. And
it's not even a it really I don't think

269
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:48,720
is legally a street because I think it
was probably a dirt road that they put

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00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:54,159
pavement on when people started living
there because there's no there's no

271
00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:59,200
curbing, there's no sidewalks. The is
not wide enough for hardly two cars to

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00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:03,600
pass. And because it's such a peaceful,
quiet little neighborhood, people walk

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00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:07,919
their dogs on the street, little kids
ride their bikes on the street, uh

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00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:12,799
people go side by side talking while
they're walking because there's room on

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the street. And we just don't have that
kind of traffic. And it was mentioned

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00:21:15,039 --> 00:21:20,080
that people will come in from Falcon.
And you know darn well they will because

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00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:26,320
they don't want to deal with the street
light at Everton. they'll come in on

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00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:31,919
Falcon, go zipping down 210th,
go take a left, and go right into this

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00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:37,600
new development. And um so that's my
concern. Another concern is the quality

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of the lake. And um I don't know if
people realize this, but that lake is

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00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:50,240
28t deep. Um White Bear Lake is 83 feet
deep. Bone Lake. Bone Lake smaller than

282
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:57,520
Clear Lake is actually more is deeper
than um Clear Lake. And so right now

283
00:21:53,440 --> 00:22:05,840
there's about 150 to 180 residents on
Clear Lake. And you know when you say

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00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:11,919
240 units, that's easily spouse, kids,
we're talking maybe 500 more people.

285
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Now, is that is that possible that you
can say that this little community can

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00:22:15,039 --> 00:22:22,960
sustain that? The other thing is is that
really when you think about it, so those

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00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:26,640
people live in an apartment building,
they buy a jet ski, they buy a

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00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:30,720
speedboat, all they have to do is go
around to the little public access and

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00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:36,400
those people are going to be zip, zip,
zipping all over our lake, 28 feet deep.

290
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:39,679
You're ruining the bottom of that lake.
you're you're sending all the weeds and

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00:22:38,159 --> 00:22:45,760
every tearing up all the weeds and
everything and and are those people

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00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:54,720
paying six7,000 to live there in taxes?
Hell no, they're not. And so, you know,

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00:22:48,799 --> 00:22:59,280
we as the payers and and um the um I'm
trying to think of the word and I can't,

294
00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:05,280
but we have we've got skin in the game.
You know, we take care of that lake and

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00:23:01,919 --> 00:23:12,559
right now it's as uh Dan mentioned, it's
already really high and it is on the

296
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:19,600
states impaired uh lakes because it's so
full of pollution already and um we just

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00:23:16,559 --> 00:23:25,039
can't we can't add that many more people
and especially with such easy access to

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00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:30,080
to buy a jet ski just go to the boat
landing and put it in, you know, it it's

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00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:38,720
not fair to the rest of us. It's not
that big of a lake. Um this lake is 429

300
00:23:33,919 --> 00:23:44,000
acres. Um, White Bear Lake is 2400
acres. You know, they just can't bring

301
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:49,679
speedboats. And and our lake is a little
pontoon, fishing boats, you know, couple

302
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:55,679
people have jet skis, couple have speed
boats, but it's not the zip, zip, zip,

303
00:23:52,240 --> 00:24:00,640
zip, zip, you know, it can't handle it.
And the other thing I want to mention,

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00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:07,200
which I think is extremely important, is
um [clears throat] that this area used

305
00:24:03,679 --> 00:24:12,240
to be was an Indian burial ground. And
this is a direct quote. It said, "The

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00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:17,600
immediate surrounding region is deeply
significant and rich in indigenous

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00:24:14,799 --> 00:24:22,400
history. Located just west of Forest
Lake, this area contains some of the

308
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:28,960
oldest known Native American burial
mounds in Minnesota." Now, did any of

309
00:24:25,679 --> 00:24:34,400
you know that? But that should give you
a little food for thought that that they

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00:24:31,679 --> 00:24:36,799
should not be putting in that big in
there.

311
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:40,039
Thank you.
>> Thank you.

312
00:24:42,159 --> 00:24:50,240
Uh
Era Swenson, I apologize that I may have

313
00:24:47,679 --> 00:24:53,240
a little trouble reading that
483927.

314
00:24:56,692 --> 00:25:00,559
» [laughter]
>> I I apologize if I massacred the name,

315
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:04,320
but uh
>> Eric Swenson,

316
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:11,760
» you know, we don't need to know cursive
anymore, just so you know. [laughter]

317
00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:18,000
» Yeah. So, um a lot of what I would say
has already been said. Um

318
00:25:14,377 --> 00:25:21,679
[clears throat] you know, the lake is um
we have a really strong lake

319
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:29,360
association.
Um they do a great job. Um There have

320
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:35,600
they we have been working with the DNR
and the um University of Minnesota and

321
00:25:32,799 --> 00:25:40,480
Rice Creek to improve it. We currently
are running some tests on planting

322
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:47,120
native species in the lake and things
like that. Um, one of the things with

323
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:55,120
the access to the lake is I was over
there this morning just kind of checking

324
00:25:48,960 --> 00:26:01,360
it out and um there's 250 ft of uh lily
pads to get to that access currently and

325
00:25:58,799 --> 00:26:08,640
those would have to be cleared out in
order to make any kind of access to that

326
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:14,480
37 or 40 feet to get to our lake
um that they currently have. So, that's

327
00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:20,080
a concern I have of ripping out a bunch
of lily pads. I know it's legal through

328
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:26,559
the DNR in certain ways and things like
that, buying permits and whatever, but

329
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:34,480
uh that's ruining a lot of our native
species of that lake. Um the other

330
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:39,520
concern I have is at the end of that 240
ft, um the lake level is about 40

331
00:26:37,679 --> 00:26:46,799
inches.
Um at a at about 50 ft. It's two feet.

332
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:53,200
So, you put a speedboat in there, you
put a pontoon in there, the the level of

333
00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:59,679
the motor, the bottom of the motor where
the prop is is obviously going to stir

334
00:26:55,919 --> 00:27:05,520
up the muck and continue to muddy up the
water and things like that. So with all

335
00:27:02,559 --> 00:27:12,880
that extra traffic that's pro could go
to that additional dock that may be

336
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:19,360
there um that's going to really in
increase the uh clarity or decrease the

337
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:25,679
clarity of our water. So I could see our
water quality going down significantly

338
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:31,120
with that kind of traffic. Um the other
thing I noticed was there's a lot of um

339
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:41,120
through the Rice Creek wershed. I went
online and looked at the uh the um

340
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:50,799
uh low water basin in that area and a
lot of that area is um low water or high

341
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:55,760
high water area 100year flood plane area
and that would have to be looked at

342
00:27:52,559 --> 00:28:00,159
pretty closely um on how they filter the
water and that's already been said

343
00:27:57,919 --> 00:28:04,960
before so I'm not going to go into that
But if you uh if you look at the

344
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:08,640
100redyear water plane or the flood
plane in that area, it's pretty

345
00:28:07,039 --> 00:28:15,440
substantial.
Um obviously it goes through the trail

346
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:21,520
that would need to be made to get to the
lake or dock or whatever they're going

347
00:28:17,679 --> 00:28:25,840
to do. But um that's another concern of
of mine as well is how they're how

348
00:28:23,679 --> 00:28:32,159
they're going to get to the lake and
what they're going to do to the the low

349
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:34,720
lake lowle areas in that uh swamp area.
So that's all I have.

350
00:28:34,159 --> 00:28:41,399
» Thank you.
>> Yep.

351
00:28:37,279 --> 00:28:41,399
» Teresa Nistler.

352
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:53,520
» Yeah.
So I have somewhere to set.

353
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:58,159
Good evening, planning commission chair,
commissioners, and commissioner, vice

354
00:28:55,919 --> 00:29:03,200
chair. My name is Theresa Nishler, and I
reside at 21045 Everton Avenue North. My

355
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:10,399
spouse and I have owned this property
since 2000, over 25 years. We believe in

356
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:15,520
your website slogan, forest lake, as
good as it sounds, is the primary reason

357
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:20,399
we purchased the property on Clear Lake
and across the street from forest,

358
00:29:17,679 --> 00:29:24,559
wetlands, and wildlife management areas
containing abundant wildlife, protected

359
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:28,000
eagles, and the diversity of plants that
come with such a beautiful, serene

360
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:31,279
environment.
We are here tonight after submitting our

361
00:29:30,159 --> 00:29:35,919
concerns, which should have been
included in your packet. So, I hope

362
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:40,480
you've read it. If you haven't, please
read those comments. My neighbors have

363
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:45,360
done a great job bringing up lots of
wonderful points about why this is a

364
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:50,080
negative impact to not only our
community but Forest Lake overall.

365
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:54,320
Um, we are here to request that the
planning commission little different

366
00:29:51,600 --> 00:30:00,559
take on the comments I submitted that
you actually abide by the stated vision

367
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:05,600
and goals of your existing 2040
comprehensive plan. The vision

368
00:30:03,279 --> 00:30:09,520
statement, and I'm paraphrasing, the
city of Forest Lake is known for its

369
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:14,000
natural resources and outdoor
recreation. The city's overall vision is

370
00:30:12,159 --> 00:30:17,840
to serve as a regional hub while
maintaining its national natural

371
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:21,200
resources
and providing a range of recreational

372
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:26,480
opportunities.
As development is proposed, the emphasis

373
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:30,960
will be again the protection of natural
resources. That has been highlighted

374
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:35,440
numerous times tonight.
Your number one goal is protect natural

375
00:30:32,799 --> 00:30:40,000
resources. There is absolutely nothing
about this concept plan that is going to

376
00:30:37,279 --> 00:30:43,600
protect the natural resources of this
area.

377
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:47,279
Um I can tell you as another gentleman
stated that the Clear Lake Association

378
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:52,320
has worked diligently to not only
protect but also provide access through

379
00:30:49,679 --> 00:30:57,200
our public boat landing education on
invasive species and investing large

380
00:30:54,960 --> 00:31:01,600
financial resources along with our
critical partners to add a fishing pier.

381
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:06,080
We're working on access. We try to make
sure that the public has access to the

382
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:10,720
resources. This concept plan being
presented is replicating what we're

383
00:31:08,399 --> 00:31:14,880
already providing. It's attempting to
add a six slip boat marina in an

384
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:19,919
extremely shallow vegetation filled area
of the lake and a complete disregard for

385
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:24,880
protecting this natural resource by
adding a a boardwalk connecting the

386
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:30,080
development to the proposed marina.
Because as the applicant Stephen Cavan

387
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:33,279
said, I thought it'd be a nice amenity.
Well, I can tell you this is not a nice

388
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:38,720
amenity for any of the people in this
room. We are not seeing any of this as

389
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:42,880
an amenity. I'm aware of this
commission's discussions in March of

390
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:47,200
this year beginning to scope the 2050
comprehensive plan and I just ask you to

391
00:31:45,519 --> 00:31:53,760
abide by what you've already said you
want to do. And this project does none

392
00:31:50,399 --> 00:31:58,320
of it. Forcelake's current community
community designation is emerging

393
00:31:55,679 --> 00:32:02,559
suburban edge. The planning challenges
for this designation require innovative

394
00:32:01,039 --> 00:32:06,399
planning to ensure sustainable
development and needs to address

395
00:32:04,799 --> 00:32:11,519
infrastructure and environmental
concerns. Again, this concept plan does

396
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:14,399
neither of those.
The concept plan being presented tonight

397
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:18,960
does not address the lack of
infrastructure by funneling, as others

398
00:32:16,399 --> 00:32:24,000
have stated, close to 500 vehicles down
a small residential road that was not

399
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:28,240
designed for that level of activity. Nor
is the newly finished Highway 97

400
00:32:25,919 --> 00:32:32,080
construction. This concept plan
presented as presented would completely

401
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:37,200
waste the taxpayer dollars that went
into the redesign of 97 and it would

402
00:32:34,799 --> 00:32:41,919
also require rework and additional
construction on Everton Avenue North

403
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:45,840
that was just finished.
We respectfully request that this

404
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:49,440
planning commission recommend three
things because I know you don't make

405
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:53,760
decisions yourself. You're making
recommendations. We ask that you

406
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:58,559
recommend to your decision makers, the
full council,

407
00:32:56,159 --> 00:33:03,120
eliminate the boardwalk, eliminate the
boat marina,

408
00:33:00,559 --> 00:33:07,360
and eliminate any entrance or exits off
of Everton Avenue North. You've heard

409
00:33:05,039 --> 00:33:11,279
that over and over and over again.
Everton cannot handle this kind of

410
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:15,120
traffic. There's plenty of open land and
Forest Lake for this type of multif

411
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:19,519
family development. This property is not
the place to put this development.

412
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:22,799
Absolutely not.
There's lots of other concerns. People

413
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:29,120
have talked about erosion. People have
talked about um the runoff.

414
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:34,240
Many of us are on private wells. There's
already concern about the impact not

415
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:39,840
only of spring flooding, but of the
impact of the wells. This development is

416
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:43,440
going to just exasperate the problems
we've been dealing with. And we've all

417
00:33:41,679 --> 00:33:48,720
dealt with them in this community
together. We've worked together on so

418
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:55,519
many things and we care about each other
and we want to keep our neighborhood as

419
00:33:51,360 --> 00:34:00,159
it is a lovely serene place to live in
peace. Thank you.

420
00:33:57,679 --> 00:34:03,720
» Thank you,
>> Dina Smith.

421
00:34:05,588 --> 00:34:07,608
[clears throat]

422
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:18,800
Hello, I'm Deanna Schmidt, 211049
Everton Avenue. The home is located at

423
00:34:16,879 --> 00:34:23,440
the beginning part of the Dead End
Street on the south side of the lake.

424
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:29,599
The homes directly across from us above
up to the proposed uh apartment

425
00:34:26,240 --> 00:34:33,919
building. Um, as I stated in the email I
sent to you yesterday, I have worked in

426
00:34:31,599 --> 00:34:39,839
the apartment business uh, management
for 40 years. So, I want to be clear

427
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:44,560
that I am not opposed to the building of
apartments. Um, apartment buildings are

428
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:52,320
very important for housing in
communities. However, I am opposed to

429
00:34:48,240 --> 00:34:58,640
the development of a 200 uh, 228 unit
apartment building in this location.

430
00:34:55,839 --> 00:35:03,200
Um, many Clear Lake residents have made
sub substantial investments in their

431
00:35:00,720 --> 00:35:08,000
homes and properties, accepting higher
property taxes in exchange for unique

432
00:35:05,599 --> 00:35:13,040
character, natural beauty, and
residential settings that lakefront

433
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:18,720
living provides. With that investment
comes a reasonable expectation that we

434
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:24,000
would not suddenly find multiple large
three-story apartment buildings directly

435
00:35:21,359 --> 00:35:28,400
behind our homes and in our backyards.
We also have the expectation that the

436
00:35:26,079 --> 00:35:33,200
city will protect our property values
and our right to the peaceful enjoyment

437
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:39,200
of the property we have invested in.
While many residents and I would prefer

438
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:44,160
that no development occur on this site,
I understand that growth and change are

439
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:49,760
inevitable and I recognize that that
this project has development rights

440
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:54,160
under the current zoning. I respectfully
submit that the commission's role

441
00:35:51,520 --> 00:36:00,079
extends beyond determining whether a
project is legally permissible. Your

442
00:35:57,119 --> 00:36:04,720
recommendations and your guidance carry
significant weight and can meaning

443
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:10,160
meaningfully
influence this project's development.

444
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:15,599
Development of this site should occur in
a manner that respects the expectations

445
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:20,000
of existing residents and preserve
qualities that attracted the existing

446
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:24,640
families to this area in the first
place.

447
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:29,280
If this project moves forward, I
encourage the commission to use its

448
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:34,560
influence to advocate for meaningful
modifications that better balance

449
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:39,839
development with neighborhood impacts.
Such considerations should include

450
00:36:37,359 --> 00:36:45,920
reduced building heights,
fewer units or perhaps town homes or

451
00:36:43,359 --> 00:36:51,280
detached town homes in lie of apartments
to ensure overall compatibility with the

452
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:56,079
surrounding community. Additional
consideration should include increased

453
00:36:53,440 --> 00:37:02,000
setbacks, enhance landscaping and
buffering, stronger measures to address

454
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:08,320
traffic, parking, lighting, and storm
water, and consider impacts to existing

455
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:12,079
wildlife and the environment. My hope is
that the applicant, the commission, and

456
00:37:10,240 --> 00:37:19,119
neighborhood residents will work
collaboratively to find a balanced

457
00:37:15,119 --> 00:37:24,000
solution, one that addresses my concerns
and those of my neighbors while

458
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:27,920
preserving character, safety, natural
environment, and the quality of life

459
00:37:26,240 --> 00:37:32,160
that make Clear Lake such a special
place to call home. I respectfully ask

460
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:36,560
that these concerns along with those
outlined in my me email become part of

461
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:40,800
the public record and be carefully
considered as the project moves forward.

462
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:45,280
Thank you for your time and your service
to the community.

463
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:50,400
» Thank you. I have reached the end of my
list. So if anyone else wish to address

464
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:55,200
the planning commission, we ask that you
come up, state your name and address so

465
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:58,960
you guys can work out who comes next. Um
come up, state your name and address for

466
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:04,240
the record. We are going to put this
sheet over where Mr. Larson is there if

467
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:08,800
he raises his hand if you would sign
that upon your completion of your

468
00:38:07,359 --> 00:38:15,040
comments. So, ma'am, go ahead.
>> I think you skipped me. I'm on the list.

469
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:20,560
» The list left, but I apologize.
>> My name is Ruth Bloomquist. Uh, you've

470
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:25,280
heard from me before in letter form. I
live at 211071 [clears throat] Everton

471
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:31,200
Avenue North.
Tonight I have more concerns and more

472
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:37,280
questions. Respectfully, what are we
doing here?

473
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:42,720
High density housing on a wetland wedged
between state conver conservation land

474
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:46,720
and next to a single family residential
neighborhood. Multi-generational

475
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:52,640
families that have been here for
decades. Really, this is simply a very

476
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:57,680
poor choice. There are better areas for
this. Regardless of zoning, I was always

477
00:38:55,680 --> 00:39:02,160
under the understanding that the wetland
was not buildable,

478
00:39:00,079 --> 00:39:06,960
that nothing could be built on the
halfway land. Don and Judy knew it was a

479
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:11,040
wet land. They also knew that their land
was infested with buckthornne, which is

480
00:39:09,119 --> 00:39:18,480
why the state didn't want to buy the
land. What has happened that allows for

481
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:24,079
this now? What laws have changed in
Minnesota? What happens with this land

482
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:29,200
directly affects how much pollution runs
into our lake. I understand that there

483
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:35,920
is a shortage of affordable housing, but
really 22 actual buildable acres. You're

484
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:42,960
going to put six threestory apartment
buildings filled with a minimum of 228

485
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:48,960
people. This is more than double the
amount of residents currently living on

486
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:54,480
the lake. Now,
where's the sense in that? Where is the

487
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:58,720
transportation that's available to them?
How far is the closest transportation

488
00:39:56,720 --> 00:40:03,359
center park and ride for these people is
stuck in this apartment?

489
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:07,359
Clear Lake is a small lake that has a
strong association that has denied

490
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:12,880
requests for community dock slips in the
past. The lake association needs to be

491
00:40:10,240 --> 00:40:18,560
consulted before any boat slips are
planned. Our lake is impaired. We have

492
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:24,560
fought Eurasian water mil foil and now
have zebra muscle invasion. The entire

493
00:40:21,599 --> 00:40:29,359
concept is a slap in the face to the
existing residents and our continued

494
00:40:27,119 --> 00:40:35,040
contributions to the betterment of the
lake. Why is this happening?

495
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:41,599
Because some developer bought the
wetland for a song and is trying to make

496
00:40:38,079 --> 00:40:46,160
a silk purse out of a sa's ear. So why
is this land zoned to mixed use? Because

497
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:51,040
a long time ago, someone thought this
area should be the gateway to Forest

498
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:56,278
Lake. Is that what you want for Forest
Lake? Our gateway to be six threestory

499
00:40:53,839 --> 00:41:00,800
apartment buildings? Since we want
[snorts] to be more friendly to

500
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:04,800
developers, let me just ask this. Do we
have to let them walk all over our

501
00:41:02,319 --> 00:41:09,280
rights as taxpayers and property owners
because the Met Council would like us

502
00:41:06,720 --> 00:41:13,280
to? What's the Met Council going to do
for us?

503
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:17,200
What about the airport? Those of us in a
single family residential zone were not

504
00:41:15,359 --> 00:41:21,200
allowed to build three stories because
of the airport. Consequently, these

505
00:41:19,839 --> 00:41:26,720
apartment buildings, as they are
currently drawn in the proposal, will

506
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:33,200
block our sun will block the sun to the
existing homes. So, at what point does

507
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:39,440
this bad idea get shut down? The
proposal is incompatible with the

508
00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:45,040
existing neighborhood. Additionally, the
proposal calls for rows of single

509
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:50,720
garages rather than underground parking.
MU2 calls for underground parking, which

510
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:54,960
tells me that the land is not suitable
for the amount of excavation and

511
00:41:52,640 --> 00:42:00,640
displaced materials this project would
require.

512
00:41:57,119 --> 00:42:06,079
MU2 calls for it
and we need a separation of a fence or a

513
00:42:03,839 --> 00:42:11,280
wall
to keep our privacy and people out of

514
00:42:08,720 --> 00:42:15,680
our yards. The proposal shows two
buildings and garages that partially

515
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:22,480
fall within the lake overlay. They need
to be moved farther south or eliminated.

516
00:42:19,599 --> 00:42:29,119
Growth is important. It must be
responsible growth. I respectfully ask

517
00:42:25,839 --> 00:42:33,040
that you protect Clear Lake, protect the
surrounding neighborhood, and require

518
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:38,720
that this proposal meet both the letter
and spirit of city standards before

519
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:41,960
moving forward. Thank you.
>> Thank you.

520
00:42:42,319 --> 00:42:48,994
Anyone else wish to address? Come on up.
[cough]

521
00:42:54,000 --> 00:43:01,599
My name is Jody Dayne. I live at 21191
Everton Avenue on the south side of the

522
00:42:58,720 --> 00:43:06,880
lake. I wasn't going to speak, but I
have been standing in the back watching

523
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:11,280
and listening and I can't stay silent. I
want you to look at the people out here.

524
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:19,359
The majority of them are retirees, as is
the majority of the lake, over 50%.

525
00:43:15,599 --> 00:43:24,079
This is their final home. That's a
horrible way to say it, but it's all

526
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:31,200
going to end for us someday.
They want to spend their last years in

527
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:34,640
peace and not have to worry about who's
going to come through their yard

528
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:41,359
trespassing
because the people that will reside in

529
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:47,920
these buildings hold no ownership. They
don't care. And they will come across

530
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:52,880
our yards to get to the lake. They will
follow the lake shore and come up

531
00:43:50,319 --> 00:44:00,319
through our yards. The BCA has
statistics on how areas like this there

532
00:43:56,720 --> 00:44:08,160
is an increased property damage level,
trespassing level, and break-in level.

533
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:16,560
These people don't deserve that. They
have worked all of their lives

534
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:20,640
to be able to enjoy their properties.
I have to talk about the human factor

535
00:44:18,720 --> 00:44:25,225
here because everybody has talked about
the road and the lake quality and

536
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:28,880
absolutely
[snorts]

537
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:32,240
that's important. I live on the lake. I
know how important that is. I have

538
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:35,920
worked for government agencies in the
state of Minnesota. I have worked with

539
00:44:33,599 --> 00:44:40,160
the Met Council. I know how the Met
Council operates and I know you're being

540
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:46,400
strongarmed and it's through the law.
Legally, they can do that.

541
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:52,319
But what they can't do is they can't
tell you where these types of projects

542
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:57,920
go.
That control lies with you. And as

543
00:44:55,280 --> 00:45:02,720
you've heard from other citizens, there
are other places in Forest Lake where

544
00:45:00,720 --> 00:45:08,560
these requirements by the Met Council
can be met.

545
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:12,000
And the other piece of that is 20% at
minimum

546
00:45:10,319 --> 00:45:17,119
is going to be subsidized through
different funding that's coming out of

547
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:24,880
the state and the Met Council, which is
a great incentive for a developer.

548
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:30,640
I heard today that this project is a go
and this basically tonight is just a

549
00:45:27,119 --> 00:45:39,040
formality that you need to follow to let
us have our voices heard.

550
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:46,240
I hope you look at these faces
and hear what they're saying underneath

551
00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:52,760
the lake quality and the traffic issue.
This is their lives.

552
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:52,760
Thank you.

553
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:57,400
» Does anyone else wish to speak?

554
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:05,280
» I'll ask one more time. Does anyone else
wish to address the planning commission

555
00:46:02,720 --> 00:46:09,280
this evening?
>> I just have a question. What are the

556
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:13,920
next steps?
>> Please step up. We're on TV, you know,

557
00:46:11,839 --> 00:46:21,440
so we don't want anyone to miss.
>> Okay. Judge Judy. Okay. Um, [laughter]

558
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:28,160
» what are the next steps? I mean, is the
decision actually final at this point or

559
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:32,720
is it just that we're we're going
through a procedure to say, "Well, at

560
00:46:30,319 --> 00:46:35,359
least they listen to us." So, what are
the next steps?

561
00:46:33,839 --> 00:46:40,720
» I tell you what, how about if I answer
that in a little bit and I can lay out

562
00:46:37,359 --> 00:46:45,920
the whole thing for you, you know,
because it is quite a process before we

563
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:51,680
get to the end result. So, I want to
make sure we've heard from everybody.

564
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:57,440
And I see no one else coming forth and
no other hands going up.

565
00:46:54,800 --> 00:47:02,960
We'll close the open forum. I first I
want to thank everyone who participated

566
00:46:59,359 --> 00:47:06,480
in it tonight. We always like to get the
input. You wouldn't believe how many

567
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:11,520
meetings that are here that there is no
one in the audience. So it's nice to see

568
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:17,920
that the citizens have come out and made
their thoughts and opinions known. So

569
00:47:14,720 --> 00:47:22,880
before I assume that when we move to the
next item or in a couple items we'll

570
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:28,400
cover this and but the basically the
process to answer your question. This is

571
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:32,960
the concept plan tonight. This is a
nonbinding meeting to have with the

572
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:38,079
developer and the planning commission.
Purpose of which is for the developer to

573
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:45,280
get input on what we like and dislike
about this. Um and then when the

574
00:47:42,079 --> 00:47:51,440
developer comes back with a formal
application or the preliminary is when

575
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:56,319
uh they'll have locked it down what they
want to do.

576
00:47:53,440 --> 00:48:03,119
The expectation is they take our
comments tonight into consideration

577
00:47:59,839 --> 00:48:07,119
once the preliminary is platt is if it
moves forward and it gets approved which

578
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:11,920
this approval would come through the
council. So it comes to us and we would

579
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:16,960
to make a recommendation.
Then when then it'll be at a final and

580
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:21,040
the final should line up with what's act
will line up with what actually is going

581
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:24,319
to be built. So that'll take care of all
of the excuse me that'll take care of

582
00:48:22,559 --> 00:48:28,960
all of the changes that they need to be
made. Typically in that case there's

583
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:34,720
some adjustments that they have to make
once all of the uh wetlands have been

584
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:42,000
delineated. All of the distances are
known. Um all the parking spots may may

585
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:44,640
have lost some stuff. Uh all of that
would be in the final. All the

586
00:48:43,119 --> 00:48:47,920
engineering
uh that's required for the sewer, the

587
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:52,960
water, [snorts]
the water runoff.

588
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:59,280
What else did I miss? All of that kind
of stuff would be in the final then. So

589
00:48:55,760 --> 00:49:02,720
this is like I say a nonbinding.
If this project, if the applicant

590
00:49:01,119 --> 00:49:07,839
decides to move forward with this
project, it'll come before us again as

591
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:13,200
the preliminary and that'll be a public
hearing also right during that time

592
00:49:10,720 --> 00:49:17,200
instead of the open form. So that's what
what would happen next. Abby, have I

593
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:21,920
misspoke?
>> No. Uh just to clarify though, uh the

594
00:49:20,079 --> 00:49:26,720
this is the first step in the process, a
concept plan. There'll be two other proc

595
00:49:24,720 --> 00:49:31,440
applications, the preliminary plat and
the final plat. Each of those could take

596
00:49:29,119 --> 00:49:35,200
up to 120 days a piece. So just know
that this is the start of a pretty long

597
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:39,839
process that we go through with all land
development projects.

598
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:44,960
» Thank you.
So with that, we'll move to item number

599
00:49:42,559 --> 00:49:50,400
six, the consent agenda. Chair is
looking for a motion to approve the

600
00:49:47,119 --> 00:49:55,040
consent agenda as presented, which is
approve the minutes from the regular

601
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:59,359
meeting of June 24, 2026. Do I have a
motion?

602
00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:07,200
» So moved. So I have a motion and a
second. Any any discussion?

603
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:11,440
» I will be abstaining since I was absent.
>> So with that, no other comments. All

604
00:50:09,119 --> 00:50:13,599
those in favor signify by saying I.
>> I.

605
00:50:12,079 --> 00:50:15,040
» Opposed.
>> Abstensions.

606
00:50:14,559 --> 00:50:21,119
» Yes.
>> I. Two abstensions. I wasn't here,

607
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:24,400
right?
>> Was I here?

608
00:50:23,599 --> 00:50:27,680
» Hold on a second.
>> I think you were here.

609
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:32,920
» I don't think I was. I was on vacation.
>> Actually, you weren't you weren't

610
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:32,920
present in the minutes.

611
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:40,720
» That wasn't the one that you missed.
>> It'll pass with or without you. You can

612
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:43,760
still abandain.
>> I'll still abstain because I wasn't

613
00:50:42,240 --> 00:50:51,119
here. [laughter]
I was in Wisconsin. I know where I was.

614
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:56,559
All righty. That's good. So we'll move
to our regular agenda item item seven

615
00:50:53,680 --> 00:51:01,079
which is the Clear Lake Apartments
PIN 1 19.032.21.21.000014

616
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:16,520
Steve Kavan I apologize if I'm wrong. uh
applicant. It's a concept plan review

617
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:16,520
case file number PZ26-1431.

618
00:51:17,599 --> 00:51:24,640
And this is an advisory review. The way
this will work is that I believe uh

619
00:51:23,119 --> 00:51:29,839
Stephen, you're going to give a
presentation. He'll tell us the uh

620
00:51:27,839 --> 00:51:34,240
application as he understands it. The
planning commission will then ask

621
00:51:31,359 --> 00:51:38,640
questions of the city. Once all of those
roles have been answered, we'll ask the

622
00:51:35,839 --> 00:51:42,480
applicant to come up and answer any
questions. He's probably got a pad full

623
00:51:40,559 --> 00:51:49,040
of or she I think it's a gentleman
sitting here um has probably have some

624
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:52,720
answers for us. Once we have all that,
we will have a discussion amongst the

625
00:51:50,720 --> 00:51:56,720
planning commission and the applicant
and the city to give further direction.

626
00:51:55,200 --> 00:52:00,119
So with that, I believe Stephen, you're
giving the presentation.

627
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:06,599
Sorry, it's the only time I get to order
my boss around.

628
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:14,480
So, I think uh we have we have had a lot
of comments on this and

629
00:52:12,559 --> 00:52:17,359
it would it's all been very civil and
appreciative and I really appreciate

630
00:52:16,079 --> 00:52:22,800
everybody coming out tonight, especially
the uh full house. Um, as chair Gerard

631
00:52:20,720 --> 00:52:26,559
said, it's not often we have a full
house and we have to pull chairs out.

632
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:30,079
So, it's a a good situation and at the
very least at least we brought this

633
00:52:27,839 --> 00:52:34,319
neighborhood together. Um, so let me
begin. Um,

634
00:52:32,720 --> 00:52:39,119
» yeah, true. I stand corrected.
>> You're wasting our time.

635
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:43,359
» So, um, uh, tonight we are reviewing the
Clear Lake Apartments, uh, concept plan.

636
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:46,720
This is an early non-binding review as
it's been discussed. Uh, the applica is

637
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:50,400
not asking for approval tonight and the
planning commission is not being asked

638
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:54,800
to approve or deny the project. The
purpose of tonight's discussion is to

639
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:57,920
provide early non-binding feedback
before a formal preliminary platinum

640
00:52:56,319 --> 00:53:01,760
plan unit development application is
submitted. That feedback is helpful

641
00:52:59,839 --> 00:53:06,400
because this site has several issues to
better understand, including access,

642
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:10,400
storm water, utilities, shoreland rules,
wetlands, nearby homes, and its location

643
00:53:08,319 --> 00:53:13,839
near Clear Lake. We have also received
significant public comment. Many of

644
00:53:12,319 --> 00:53:18,160
those comments raise planning questions
about traffic, lake access, storm water,

645
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:21,680
groundwater, environmental review,
construction impacts, and neighborhood

646
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:25,520
compatibility. Tonight's review is not
intended to resolve every one of those

647
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:29,760
issues. The purpose is to identify them
clearly so the applicant understands

648
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:33,599
what the city reviewing agencies,
planning commission and public would

649
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:36,720
like to see considered in an updated
plan. So the main question tonight

650
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:40,559
saying tonight is not is this project
approved. It is what would be helpful

651
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:44,319
for the applicant to understand before
submitting a formal application. With

652
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:50,319
that purpose in mind, I'll start with a
quick overview of what's being proposed.

653
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:54,160
The concept plan shows a proposed 228
unit apartment development southwest of

654
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:58,079
Clear Lake. The plan includes six
apartment buildings, each three stories

655
00:53:55,920 --> 00:54:01,680
tall with 38 units in each building.
Because the full concept plan is

656
00:53:59,599 --> 00:54:05,200
difficult to read at this slide size,
I've added colored dots to help provide

657
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:09,200
context for the main parts of the site
layout. These dots are not intended to

658
00:54:07,119 --> 00:54:12,640
replace the full plan. They're just a
visual guide for the presentation. The

659
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:16,720
apartment buildings are identified with
blue dots. The primary vehicle access is

660
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:21,280
identified with a pink dot and the
possible secondary vehicle access is

661
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:25,280
identified with a magenta dot. The
concept also includes parking areas and

662
00:54:23,119 --> 00:54:28,559
detached garages with the garages
identified by green dots on the plan.

663
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:32,319
The playground is shown with a brown
dot, the dog park with a peach dot, the

664
00:54:30,720 --> 00:54:37,200
boardwalk connection toward Clear Lake
with an orange dot, and the proposed six

665
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:41,119
slip community dock with a yellow dot.
The concept was presented to the parks

666
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:45,040
commission on June 17th. The parks
commission recommended cash and loo for

667
00:54:42,720 --> 00:54:49,520
any required park dedication rather than
land dedication because there does not

668
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:53,119
appear to be a clear location for the
site that would work well as a public

669
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:56,319
neighborhood park. The more usable
portions of the site are generally shown

670
00:54:54,559 --> 00:54:59,839
for buildings, parking, storm water, and
private resident amenities. The

671
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:03,599
remaining areas appear to be wetlands,
buffers, shoreline, and other

672
00:55:01,119 --> 00:55:06,880
constrained areas. That matters because
accepting parkland also means accepting

673
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:10,720
long-term city maintenance
responsibility. Staff generally does not

674
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:13,920
recommend accepting land that is
isolated, difficult to access,

675
00:55:12,079 --> 00:55:17,920
environmentally constrained, or unlikely
to function as a usable public park

676
00:55:15,599 --> 00:55:21,599
space. Cash and would still require a
park contribution, but it will allow

677
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:24,720
those funds to support parks, trails, or
recreation improvements where they can

678
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:29,119
better serve the broader public. The
parks commission also recommended a

679
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:33,119
trail connection to the Highway 97 trail
system, which could generally follow the

680
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:37,599
proposed secondary access route if that
alignment works with future access

681
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:41,599
grading and agency review. A number of
public comments focused on the size of

682
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:45,440
the project and whether a 228 unit
apartment dep development fits the

683
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:49,440
location. This is one of the central
questions for future review. The city's

684
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:53,920
land use and zoning rules help answer
whether the general use is allowed. The

685
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:58,079
PUD and preliminary plat process help
evaluate whether the specific design

686
00:55:55,760 --> 00:56:02,720
works on this particular site. At this
concept stage, staff is not saying the

687
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:06,240
current layout is acceptable as is.
staff is identifying the issues the

688
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:09,760
applicant should be aware of and may
want to address if they move forward.

689
00:56:08,240 --> 00:56:14,160
Those include how the buildings relate
to nearby homes, how traffic enters and

690
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:17,760
exits the site, how leak access would be
managed, how agency comments would

691
00:56:15,839 --> 00:56:21,440
affect the plan, and whether an updated
design could better respond to the

692
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:24,880
concerns that have been raised. That
leads into the land use and zoning

693
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:30,040
question because several public comments
asked why apartments are being

694
00:56:26,240 --> 00:56:30,040
considered on this property.

695
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:35,680
Based on staff's review, the property is
guided mixeduse in the city's

696
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:40,079
comprehensive plan and is zoned MU2
general mixeduse. The MU2 designation is

697
00:56:38,240 --> 00:56:43,599
not new. The properties were identified
for mixeduse development as part of the

698
00:56:41,599 --> 00:56:47,760
city's 2030 comprehensive plan, which is
approved by the city council in 2008

699
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:51,599
2009. The zoning map that applied the
MU2 designation to this area was later

700
00:56:49,839 --> 00:56:56,880
approved by the city council through
ordinance 596 on February 8th, 2010.

701
00:56:55,040 --> 00:57:00,880
That is important context because multif
family residential is an allowed use in

702
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:05,119
the MU2 district. The district
encourages a mix of uses but does not

703
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:09,520
require every individual project or
building to include multiple uses. A

704
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:14,240
residential apartment development is
therefore not automatically inconsistent

705
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:18,079
with MU2 zoning. The comprehensive plan
identifies a target residential density

706
00:57:16,079 --> 00:57:22,160
range of 10 to 15 units per acre for
this land use category. Based on the

707
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:26,240
concept information provided, staff
estimates this proposal at about 10

708
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:30,400
units per net developable acre that
appears to be within the planned density

709
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:34,559
range, although a f future formal
application would provide a more

710
00:57:32,079 --> 00:57:38,559
detailed buildable area calculation. So
to answer that public comment directly,

711
00:57:36,559 --> 00:57:42,079
the city does not appear to be starting
from a place where apartments are

712
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:46,000
prohibited on this site. The general use
appears to be allowed under the current

713
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:49,920
land use and zoning framework. But that
that does not mean the current concept

714
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:53,200
is automatically acceptable because the
project includes multiple apartment

715
00:57:51,359 --> 00:57:56,720
buildings. It would need to be reviewed
through the planned unit development

716
00:57:54,640 --> 00:58:01,119
process. That process would allow the
city to look more closely at site

717
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:04,400
design, compatibility, access, sidewalk
screening of the development from the

718
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:08,559
view of the surrounding neighborhood,
lake access, storm water, and any

719
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:13,280
flexibility the applicant may request
from city rules. So the zoning answer is

720
00:58:11,359 --> 00:58:16,960
only the first step. The more important
question is whether the specific plan

721
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:22,240
can be refined in a way that better
addresses nearby homes, Clear Lake, and

722
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:26,880
the site constraints.
Traffic and access were among the most

723
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:30,799
common public concerns. Residents raised
um residents raised questions about

724
00:58:28,559 --> 00:58:35,359
Highway 97, local street traffic,
pedestrian and bicycle safety, emergency

725
00:58:33,119 --> 00:58:39,520
response, school busing, and whether the
surrounding road system can support this

726
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:44,319
level of development. Since a staff
report was prepared, the city received a

727
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:48,559
concept received concept level comments
from Mandot. Mandot views the proposed

728
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:52,720
Everton access as the primary access
point for the development. Mandot also

729
00:58:50,799 --> 00:58:56,640
indicated that the existing full access
on Highway 97

730
00:58:54,799 --> 00:59:00,720
is permitted for the daycare and would
be considered secondary access for the

731
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:04,640
apartment development. Men do also
encourage the daycare access to be

732
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:08,480
realigned to use the primary access
point on Everton. As a project moves

733
00:59:06,799 --> 00:59:12,640
forward, Mandot would re-evaluate the
Highway 97 full access conditions and

734
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:17,359
may consider changes that would allow
right in right out secondary access for

735
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:20,640
both the daycare and the development. So
to answer the public comments on traffic

736
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:24,559
and safety, those concerns are being
carried forward into the review. At this

737
00:59:22,799 --> 00:59:28,400
concept stage, staff is not saying the
access plan is final. Staff would like

738
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:32,319
to see future plans more clearly explain
the primary access, the secondary

739
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:38,000
access, and how the daycare access may
be realigned, and how highway 97 access

740
00:59:35,119 --> 00:59:41,359
would function after MDOT review. The
city engineer also identified several

741
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:44,799
items he would like to see studied or
addressed in more detail with a future

742
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:49,280
application. These include sewer
capacity, water main looping, fire

743
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:53,359
track, fire truck turning movements,
entrance design, and Everton Avenue

744
00:59:51,359 --> 00:59:57,280
improvements extending north of the
proposed site entrance to address

745
00:59:55,040 --> 01:00:00,720
impacts from the development. He also
identified storm water grading,

746
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:05,040
utilities, lighting, landscaping, and
tree preservation as future review

747
01:00:02,559 --> 01:00:08,640
topics. The main point is that access
and infrastructure are major future

748
01:00:06,559 --> 01:00:12,400
review items. A future preliminary plat
and PUD application should provide

749
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:15,760
enough traffic access emergency route
and utility information for the city,

750
01:00:14,079 --> 01:00:20,480
MINDOT, the fire department and the
public to better understand how the site

751
01:00:17,599 --> 01:00:24,240
may function.
A large portion of the public comments

752
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:27,440
focused on Clear Lake, the proposed
docks, storm water, groundwater,

753
01:00:25,839 --> 01:00:32,079
wetlands, wildlife, and nearby natural
resource areas. Residents raised concern

754
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:36,319
about lake use, boat traffic, the
proposed six slip dock, shoreline

755
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:40,400
erosion, invasive species, storm water
runoff, private wells, soils,

756
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:44,799
construction impacts, eagle nest,
blandings turtle, and the nearby Lampry

757
01:00:42,559 --> 01:00:47,440
Pass Wildlife Management Area. Staff
agrees that these are important issues

758
01:00:46,079 --> 01:00:50,240
to understand if the project moves
forward. At the same time, it is

759
01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:53,760
important to be clear about the city's
role. The city is not the permitting

760
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:57,520
authority for every environmental issue
raised in the public comments. Rice

761
01:00:55,760 --> 01:01:01,200
Creek Wershed District would review
items such as storm water management,

762
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:06,160
erosion and sediment control, flood
plane alteration, and wetland related

763
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:10,079
permits if the project proceeds. RCWD
also indicated that more information

764
01:01:07,839 --> 01:01:15,200
about wetland impacts would be helpful,
including whether certain impacts could

765
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:18,480
be avoided or reduced. The DNR also
provided concept level comments. DNR

766
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:22,240
asked for more information about how
boat slips would be limited and how

767
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:25,760
storm water would be treated. DNR also
provided comments related to Blandings,

768
01:01:23,839 --> 01:01:29,520
turtle, rare plants, building height,
and wildlife sensitive lighting. For

769
01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:33,359
tonight's purposes, the city is not
making those agency determinations. The

770
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:38,240
more appropriate question is how those
agency comments and site constraints

771
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:42,079
should be reflected in an updated plan.
That could include changes to the

772
01:01:39,839 --> 01:01:46,559
layout, access, dock area, boardwalk,
grading, storm water approach, lighting,

773
01:01:44,079 --> 01:01:50,960
or other design details. Staff also
notes that based on the proposed 228

774
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:54,240
units, the project does not appear to
trigger a mandatory environmental

775
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:58,160
assessment worksheet based on unit count
alone. However, that does not mean

776
01:01:56,319 --> 01:02:02,480
environmental review ends there. The
site's constraints would still be

777
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:06,799
reviewed through the city, RCWD, DNR,
MINDOT, and other applicable agencies if

778
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:10,240
the project moves forward. The main
message is that Lake Shoreland and

779
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:13,760
agency review issues are not separate
from the planning discussion. They are

780
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:18,880
part of what should shape any future
preliminary platin PUB application.

781
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:22,400
To close, I want to summarize how staff
is treating the public comments. The

782
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:25,920
city recognizes that this concept has
generated significant public interest

783
01:02:23,839 --> 01:02:30,079
and concern. A neighborhood meeting was
held on June 3rd and approximately 78

784
01:02:28,319 --> 01:02:33,680
residents attended. The city also
received written public comments which

785
01:02:31,599 --> 01:02:37,359
were included in the packet. Staff also
received an additional written comment,

786
01:02:35,599 --> 01:02:41,200
two additional written comments now
opposing the proposal as presented which

787
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:45,520
has been which have been provided to the
planning commission this evening and are

788
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:49,359
available on the desk. Taken together,
the comments raise several issues that

789
01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:52,880
are directly relevant to future review.
These include the project's scale and

790
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:57,839
compatibility with nearby homes, traffic
and safe access, clear lake and dock

791
01:02:55,359 --> 01:03:01,040
use, storm water, groundwater,
environmental concerns, agency review

792
01:02:59,599 --> 01:03:04,720
and site constraints, and whether
additional information would be helpful

793
01:03:02,559 --> 01:03:08,160
before formal review. The additional
written comment is generally consistent

794
01:03:06,319 --> 01:03:11,920
with those broader themes, and also
request denial of the proposal as

795
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:16,319
currently presented. The graphic on this
slide organizes those comments into the

796
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:21,440
main themes staff heard neighborhood fit
traffic and safe access clear lake and

797
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:25,280
docu agency review and site constraints
and more information and more

798
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:28,640
information before review. Some
questions can be addressed tonight. This

799
01:03:26,799 --> 01:03:31,839
is not an approval. The applicant does
not have to permission to build and the

800
01:03:30,799 --> 01:03:35,839
planning commission is not being asked
to approve or deny the project. Also,

801
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:39,359
based on staff's review, the general
multif family use appears to be allowed

802
01:03:37,599 --> 01:03:43,119
under the current MU2 zoning and
mixeduse land designation. Other

803
01:03:41,599 --> 01:03:47,039
questions cannot be fully answered from
the concept plan alone. The current

804
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:51,280
concept does not provide enough detail
to fully evaluate traffic access, lake

805
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:55,280
access, storm water, groundwater
utilities, construction impacts, or

806
01:03:53,039 --> 01:04:00,000
final site compatibility. Some issues
will also require review by other

807
01:03:56,799 --> 01:04:03,920
agencies, including MDOT, RCWD, and DNR.
This is what staff is asking for. This

808
01:04:02,160 --> 01:04:07,520
is why staff is asking for non-binding
feedback tonight. The most helpful

809
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:11,520
feedback is what the applicant should
should consider changing, studying or

810
01:04:09,839 --> 01:04:16,000
explaining before submitting a formal
preliminary plat application. Helpful

811
01:04:14,319 --> 01:04:19,760
feedback could include site design
changes to explore studies or

812
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:23,520
explanations that would help agency
comments that would should be reflected

813
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:27,039
in the next plan or issues the city
council should understand when it

814
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:31,359
provides its own concept feedback which
would be this coming Monday. Again,

815
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:34,400
tonight is not the final decision point.
The goal is to help the applicant

816
01:04:32,720 --> 01:04:37,200
understand the public concerns and
planning issues that should be

817
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:40,960
considered if this concept moves
forward. The applicant is here this

818
01:04:39,599 --> 01:04:44,400
evening and is available to answer
questions about the concept. Staff is

819
01:04:42,799 --> 01:04:48,400
also available to answer questions about
the city's review process, zoning, land

820
01:04:46,559 --> 01:04:53,599
use, public comments, agency comments,
and what would typically be reviewed at

821
01:04:50,799 --> 01:04:56,960
a public preliminary platin stage. With
that, staff would be happy to answer the

822
01:04:55,200 --> 01:05:02,559
questions and the applicant is available
as well.

823
01:04:58,559 --> 01:05:02,559
» Commissioners, any question for staff?

824
01:05:04,240 --> 01:05:11,599
Susan,
>> um, is is that the end of your

825
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:14,480
presentation regarding the the project?
>> Yeah.

826
01:05:12,319 --> 01:05:22,079
» Okay.
Yes. Um, do we know the the Highway 97

827
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:30,400
um improvements were planned 10 to 12
years ago? Do we know what the design

828
01:05:24,799 --> 01:05:38,640
parameters for um the Everton
access 297 were? Um in other words, when

829
01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:43,760
Mindot designed that that access, they
looked at what they thought would be the

830
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:51,520
long how how the maximum number of cars
in and out. Do we know what those design

831
01:05:47,359 --> 01:05:54,400
parameters were? and were
does this fit within those design

832
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:58,160
parameters?
>> I can say that uh one of the things that

833
01:05:56,400 --> 01:06:03,760
the city engineers outline that the
current Everton on north of 97 is is not

834
01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:07,599
to standard for this and one of the
requirements that we would want to see

835
01:06:05,359 --> 01:06:15,039
in a preliminary plat is the potential
update to that uh road into 97 u to

836
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:20,799
better address this additional um you
know vehicle. the uh vehicle load.

837
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:26,559
» Um we do have an an ordinance in the
city that says that you cannot um build

838
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:35,680
something so high that it will prevent
the adjoining properties from um using

839
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:40,079
solar or wind uh generation. Um
folks tonight said are concerned about

840
01:06:38,079 --> 01:06:46,240
shading the threetory buildings, shading
their properties. Um as as this moves

841
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:52,799
forward, We need to take a look and make
sure that a three-story building

842
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:57,760
adjacent would would not violate our
ordinance on solar gain or wind gain.

843
01:06:56,000 --> 01:07:02,240
» I think that's good feedback for the for
the developer and what we should expect

844
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:08,319
to see in the primary plan.
>> Um, a big piece of this is within the

845
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:15,039
shoreland overlay.
>> We typically do not encourage building

846
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:20,880
within the shoreline overlay. Most of
those the properties for folks tonight

847
01:07:17,280 --> 01:07:29,200
were put in before that was even even a
thing. Um and and we're used to

848
01:07:25,200 --> 01:07:36,319
non-conforming uses. Um
but our planning commission has tried to

849
01:07:32,640 --> 01:07:41,599
reduce the amount of nonconforming
uses.

850
01:07:38,079 --> 01:07:48,000
How will staff be looking at the area
that's within the shoreline overall like

851
01:07:45,119 --> 01:07:50,799
which is quite frankly the majority
>> almost all of it. Yeah.

852
01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:54,640
» The dwelling units.
>> Um I think it would be the same as as

853
01:07:53,119 --> 01:07:57,920
they had there's an impervious cap that
we'd be looking at to make sure it was

854
01:07:56,480 --> 01:08:01,200
was protected. And I think one of the
feedbacks that we heard tonight is the

855
01:07:59,520 --> 01:08:04,960
potential inclusion of underground
parking garage if if this site is

856
01:08:03,119 --> 01:08:08,640
suitable to minimize some of those
impacts. I think that is is good

857
01:08:07,119 --> 01:08:12,000
feedback for the developer as well of
what what should be something we look

858
01:08:10,160 --> 01:08:17,120
at.
>> Um, one of my other concerns is one that

859
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:26,400
that that our city typically does not
consider ever. Um, and that is

860
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:32,880
from a geomorph point of view, these
soils are awful. They're they're just

861
01:08:28,719 --> 01:08:38,719
bloody awful. Um, and
when we are going to be looking building

862
01:08:35,359 --> 01:08:43,279
permit for these buildings.
Um,

863
01:08:40,239 --> 01:08:50,799
will the city be looking at
the structure needed to support these

864
01:08:46,480 --> 01:08:57,679
buildings in a highly plastic soil
structure and what kind of of of

865
01:08:55,120 --> 01:09:02,319
underllayment is going to be required,
porings, etc. We all know what Mindot

866
01:09:00,560 --> 01:09:08,159
had to go through, but I know that the
stuff closer to the lake itself

867
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:10,880
um is a little more challenging. And I
think in the discussions that I've had

868
01:09:09,359 --> 01:09:16,560
with our city engineer on this subject,
he's very cognizant of the potential

869
01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:21,520
buildability of the site and is would be
really focused on making sure and

870
01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:27,600
bringing in the right uh knowledge to
make sure that what is being developed

871
01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:31,920
here uh met city met code and what would
be safe uh to be able to be developed

872
01:09:29,839 --> 01:09:35,920
there. And I I want to say you're you're
correct on the your your you know

873
01:09:34,239 --> 01:09:39,920
discussion of the the type of soils that
are there and that the developer

874
01:09:37,199 --> 01:09:43,600
understands it too and some of the and
that's just one of the kind of potential

875
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:48,960
challenges with the site.
>> We have buildings and and a couple of

876
01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:55,199
multi-units that that were built um in
areas that of similar soil structure. Um

877
01:09:53,440 --> 01:10:01,840
the developer goes away, the building
owner changes and um 10 years later

878
01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:06,800
there are challenges and issues. We do
not have a rental

879
01:10:04,480 --> 01:10:12,320
licensing ordinance really. We we don't
do that sort of thing. Uh folks can't

880
01:10:09,199 --> 01:10:18,159
come to us with mold issues. So
that will our opportunity to prevent

881
01:10:15,440 --> 01:10:23,360
future problems is in the
before it's built.

882
01:10:20,719 --> 01:10:28,320
Um
would the city I I understand the

883
01:10:25,760 --> 01:10:34,159
concern of the neighborhood u with folks
being able to walk through the

884
01:10:29,440 --> 01:10:40,480
backyards. Um is is fencing
along the apartment property line if

885
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:45,040
it's if it goes up um to prevent access
to backyards.

886
01:10:42,480 --> 01:10:49,360
Is that something that that will be
considered? I think I think the feedback

887
01:10:47,199 --> 01:10:53,920
that that staff will be providing after
discussion would be uh put the potential

888
01:10:51,760 --> 01:11:01,520
redesign of the site around that north
side to maximize uh screening would

889
01:10:58,480 --> 01:11:07,520
ideally it wouldn't be uh man-made. It
would be utilizing uh woodlands to

890
01:11:04,640 --> 01:11:10,239
maintain that screening and minimize
that access.

891
01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:15,520
» Yeah.
>> Looking at at what's proposed, I'm not

892
01:11:12,960 --> 01:11:18,719
sure. Well, I want to say it's a concept
right now. It's just the shapes on a

893
01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:23,440
shapes on a page.
>> I I understand that.

894
01:11:20,719 --> 01:11:29,280
» Um, it's my understanding Rice Creek
hasn't really weighed in on where

895
01:11:26,159 --> 01:11:33,040
they're looking at because there are
significant

896
01:11:31,040 --> 01:11:37,679
wetland issues here
>> and and the developers been in a lot of

897
01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:41,520
discussion with Rice Creek. We've had a
lot of discussion with Rice Creek on the

898
01:11:39,120 --> 01:11:47,280
site. they understand the the the
complexity of it and they're they're

899
01:11:44,480 --> 01:11:52,560
will provide uh feedback and
requirements to to meet the permitting

900
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:58,640
codes that he'll have to get to be able
to build build here.

901
01:11:55,600 --> 01:12:06,320
Um and then
I I would strongly recommend against

902
01:12:02,239 --> 01:12:15,520
having act trail access from this if it
goes forward along the secondary um

903
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:25,040
access path. Um that is not where the
ped crossing is and um we have enough

904
01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:32,640
challenges in areas now where
we have a marked pet crossing and um and

905
01:12:29,760 --> 01:12:39,920
there are
they're not adhered to um by by the

906
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:46,159
cross traffic. Um so if if we're looking
at at ped crossing, it's it's got to be

907
01:12:42,159 --> 01:12:53,440
something that is
at least where the the existing crossing

908
01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:58,719
is and and the trail built to that. Um,
>> those are my my big ones across the top.

909
01:12:57,440 --> 01:13:03,760
» Commissioner Young, can I ask a
clarifying question of the pedestrian

910
01:13:00,400 --> 01:13:08,880
access? Do you mean on off of Highway 97
with the

911
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:14,880
» Yeah, it would I I heard potential trail
access through the the secondary

912
01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:19,360
» um access on 97.
>> Yeah. So currently there is a trail that

913
01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:23,840
runs from that point to the light at
Everton

914
01:13:21,199 --> 01:13:28,159
» on the north side of of 97.
>> Yeah, it was built as

915
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:31,040
» or it was planned from the day.
>> When I drove it tonight, I didn't see

916
01:13:30,480 --> 01:13:34,159
it.
>> Okay, then we'll double check because I

917
01:13:32,640 --> 01:13:41,719
do believe it is part of the plans as
the highway 97 project from the daycare

918
01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:41,719
to the light. But

919
01:13:41,920 --> 01:13:47,760
» yes, there is a trail on the the south
side. Yes, we do recognize that.

920
01:13:45,760 --> 01:13:53,600
» What I don't want folks doing is trying
to cross 97

921
01:13:50,480 --> 01:13:57,679
at another location other than the
light.

922
01:13:54,480 --> 01:13:59,920
» Yeah, thank you for that clarification.
>> Susan, are you finished with your

923
01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:03,280
comments for now?
>> For now. Yes.

924
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:06,400
» Other commissioners,
>> do you want our comments now or should

925
01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:08,719
we listen to the applicant and then
>> you can do it either way.

926
01:14:07,440 --> 01:14:12,880
» I'll listen to the applicant first.
That's what I'm going to do personally.

927
01:14:10,320 --> 01:14:17,600
But uh we welcome any other questions
just to clarify. I do have one before we

928
01:14:15,120 --> 01:14:22,719
go any further and it has to do with the
underground parking that we require in

929
01:14:19,600 --> 01:14:27,440
this district. He's showing all garages.
Um are we thinking the water tables too

930
01:14:25,199 --> 01:14:30,400
high? So,
or it's just not aware that he needs to

931
01:14:29,440 --> 01:14:35,199
have underground.
>> And I think I think one of the things

932
01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:39,120
about that is it obviously the the code
prescribes that through the PUD process

933
01:14:37,840 --> 01:14:43,280
could potentially be one of the
flexibilities that that come through

934
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:48,400
that. But ideally, it would be find a
way to minimize that impervious because

935
01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:53,440
that that that would be one of our our
main concerns.

936
01:14:50,239 --> 01:14:57,520
» Other commissioners for the staff?
>> I have one. I mean, I think we're

937
01:14:56,000 --> 01:15:03,840
identifying that there's been a lot of
mistakes made by different entities over

938
01:15:00,640 --> 01:15:08,400
the years that are all being compounded,
and I don't think throwing more mistakes

939
01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:12,960
on top of it just because is a way to
go. The first time I drove down the new

940
01:15:10,080 --> 01:15:16,000
97, I said, "What did they do?" You
know, it's it's like, "Are we in the

941
01:15:14,239 --> 01:15:19,440
middle of nowhere?" They build this two
this great big bridge with multiple

942
01:15:17,679 --> 01:15:24,000
lanes going across, all these extra turn
lanes, and for some reason, when it hits

943
01:15:21,280 --> 01:15:28,880
Forest Lake, boom, one lane. And now
we're going to pack a bunch of other

944
01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:32,960
houses into an area that I think this
concept is pie in the sky. I don't think

945
01:15:31,600 --> 01:15:38,320
we're going to get anywhere near there,
but it's going to be tried to be

946
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:41,360
maximized to the point where again
mistakes that were made long before I

947
01:15:40,159 --> 01:15:45,040
know I was here and I'm sure other
commissioners and staff were here. So

948
01:15:42,960 --> 01:15:48,719
I'm not trying to point fingers, but at
some point you do have the

949
01:15:47,280 --> 01:15:56,287
responsibility to not make more
mistakes. So I think I'm going into this

950
01:15:54,267 --> 01:15:56,287
» [applause]

951
01:15:57,920 --> 01:16:06,239
» going into this with the concept of
prove that you can do this, not we have

952
01:16:02,880 --> 01:16:11,040
to allow this.
>> All right, having said heard that the

953
01:16:09,360 --> 01:16:15,440
applicant is here. Please state your
name and address for the record.

954
01:16:13,920 --> 01:16:18,880
Spend a little time giving us your
thoughts or we can just fire away. But I

955
01:16:17,440 --> 01:16:21,360
think we'd rather hear your thoughts
first.

956
01:16:19,440 --> 01:16:26,080
» Sure. I appreciate it and thank you
everyone for taking the time the chair

957
01:16:24,080 --> 01:16:30,960
commission residents for coming out
here. Um my name is Steve Cavan. I live

958
01:16:28,800 --> 01:16:36,239
at three goldfinch lane in North Oaks,
Minnesota. Um

959
01:16:33,920 --> 01:16:41,520
I also want to thank city staff for
preparing a thorough report. um uh

960
01:16:39,120 --> 01:16:46,719
concept plan review process is a
non-binding process and they've done um

961
01:16:44,719 --> 01:16:51,199
kind of above and beyond to identify
issues and help think through the

962
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:56,400
process which I appreciate. Um that was
the reason for the application

963
01:16:53,679 --> 01:17:00,400
um to get feedback. So that is very much
appreciated.

964
01:16:58,000 --> 01:17:06,880
Um
uh let's see here. I had a larger amount

965
01:17:04,640 --> 01:17:12,080
but given the interest of time I'll kind
of a few points here. Um, one thing I

966
01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:17,199
just want to point out, there have been
13 soil borings done on the site and so

967
01:17:14,640 --> 01:17:24,640
we do have uh geotechnical work done on
the site. Um, wetland delineations have

968
01:17:20,159 --> 01:17:29,199
also been done as have rare plants um
studies and when Mindot was going

969
01:17:27,040 --> 01:17:34,560
through their
uh design phase, they were well aware of

970
01:17:31,440 --> 01:17:40,080
the plans for the site. So although we
have to go through the formal process

971
01:17:36,159 --> 01:17:43,760
and receive MDOT's formal review, um
they at least were aware of what was

972
01:17:42,719 --> 01:17:50,120
what the [clears throat] site was zoned
for and what the potential density was

973
01:17:46,320 --> 01:17:50,120
going into their construction.

974
01:17:50,400 --> 01:17:54,840
Um let's see here.

975
01:17:55,760 --> 01:18:03,840
Um, I do want to point out that
prior to coincidental with pursuing

976
01:18:02,159 --> 01:18:08,400
development,
um, I have reached out to and had

977
01:18:06,320 --> 01:18:13,120
conversations with the Minnesota DNR who
owns the site to the west,

978
01:18:10,960 --> 01:18:19,520
um, with Washington County Land Trust
who has funds to buy sites like this and

979
01:18:16,080 --> 01:18:23,199
Minnesota Land Trust. Um, none of those
organizations have deemed this a site

980
01:18:21,679 --> 01:18:29,760
that they think is high enough to
preserve. And so this kind of leads me

981
01:18:27,120 --> 01:18:35,640
to where I'm at here.
Um,

982
01:18:32,080 --> 01:18:35,640
let's see here.

983
01:18:39,199 --> 01:18:45,440
So with that, I guess [clears throat] I
open it up for your questions and happy

984
01:18:43,280 --> 01:18:49,920
to try to answer them to my best of my
abilities.

985
01:18:47,600 --> 01:18:59,760
Don, we'll start with you.
>> Okay. Um, I guess my primary concern is

986
01:18:55,520 --> 01:19:04,400
is um regarding the community dock area
and this has been brought up by the

987
01:19:01,199 --> 01:19:08,640
residents and um around the lake because
I know that's come up before before this

988
01:19:06,480 --> 01:19:13,120
commission. I don't know if it's on this
lake or on Forest Lake more than one

989
01:19:11,120 --> 01:19:19,600
time before that I've been here. And
that's something that's been um shot

990
01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:24,480
down very quickly and I I find that it's
going to be a tough one to fly. I just

991
01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:30,320
don't see that passing or getting
getting through this process. Um that's

992
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:35,520
just my own personal thoughts on it for
all the reasons that you heard today of

993
01:19:32,320 --> 01:19:40,960
various residents and lakefront uh
neighborhood owners speaking about and

994
01:19:37,920 --> 01:19:47,360
and other uh logistical issues if it's a
community dock and safety and but not

995
01:19:44,080 --> 01:19:53,840
even getting into that. So that's a a
big concern of mine. um the the

996
01:19:50,719 --> 01:19:57,760
residents around the lake um have raised
all the other issues that I would have

997
01:19:56,400 --> 01:20:01,040
uh raised as well and I think you
probably heard those in the previous

998
01:19:58,960 --> 01:20:06,560
meeting. I don't know if anything new
came out today along those lines. Um I

999
01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:10,000
made a couple notes when some folks were
speaking. I know some folks thought that

1000
01:20:08,480 --> 01:20:13,840
a decision was going to be made here
today. I'll make it clear if it isn't

1001
01:20:11,840 --> 01:20:20,199
clear. No decisions are made here today.
This is just for you to hear everybody's

1002
01:20:16,400 --> 01:20:20,199
input. Um

1003
01:20:20,719 --> 01:20:23,719
um

1004
01:20:24,320 --> 01:20:31,440
and and there was a a mention Ruth
mentioned something about not being able

1005
01:20:28,719 --> 01:20:36,320
to construct three stories high due to
the airport. That's actually something I

1006
01:20:33,840 --> 01:20:42,159
had not heard before. So I if the city
can add that to their list under the uh

1007
01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:44,800
site constraints or what have you. I I
was not aware of that if that is a

1008
01:20:43,600 --> 01:20:51,920
constraint. That's the first time I've
heard it brought up. Um,

1009
01:20:47,920 --> 01:20:56,880
other than that, the um I think
the the participation by the folks here,

1010
01:20:55,360 --> 01:21:02,719
I've kind of raised all the issues and
and the city's uh synopsis of it here in

1011
01:20:59,920 --> 01:21:08,400
the in the packet kind of covers all the
all the concerns that I have on it, but

1012
01:21:04,719 --> 01:21:10,960
they're they're very much concerns.
>> Thank you,

1013
01:21:09,520 --> 01:21:16,239
» Commissioner.
>> Have a couple questions. Um, what

1014
01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:20,880
demographic are you going after with
these apartments? Are they going to be

1015
01:21:18,800 --> 01:21:27,360
higherend apartments,
lower end, middle?

1016
01:21:24,239 --> 01:21:32,320
Um, it's too early. So, at this point,
um, and I I should, if I step back, I am

1017
01:21:29,360 --> 01:21:38,960
not an apartment builder. Um, and there
is not, um, kind of an apartment

1018
01:21:35,360 --> 01:21:44,800
developer builder under contract. So, it
could be, you know, I think this would

1019
01:21:40,719 --> 01:21:49,120
be a great senior housing site. Um, I
don't know where where it will end up.

1020
01:21:46,880 --> 01:21:54,080
This process helps
uh potential apartment developers or

1021
01:21:52,159 --> 01:21:58,880
builders to understand what the
constraints are of the site, what the

1022
01:21:56,000 --> 01:22:03,760
city's review process has been, so they
can go through and design what is best

1023
01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:09,280
for the site. And similarly, I I have
had uh a couple different groups look at

1024
01:22:07,360 --> 01:22:13,760
the site in the past and and they have
not wanted to do the boardwalk or the

1025
01:22:11,360 --> 01:22:19,120
dock. That was something I put in there.
I thought it'd be a nice amenity.

1026
01:22:15,760 --> 01:22:23,520
Clearly, um people feel otherwise. Um
but that was something that I think at

1027
01:22:21,120 --> 01:22:27,760
the end of the day, the feedback and
then just the extra cost. It's it's a

1028
01:22:25,679 --> 01:22:32,880
big cost for a developer, an apartment
builder to incur. And so, you know, I

1029
01:22:31,199 --> 01:22:37,520
can't say definitively if it will go
happen or not, but the parties I've

1030
01:22:34,880 --> 01:22:43,360
spoken to have not been in favor of it.
>> And I know this is just a sketch on

1031
01:22:40,080 --> 01:22:48,000
paper, but rather than having square
block apartments, is it possible to make

1032
01:22:46,000 --> 01:22:54,639
the buildings a little more appealing,
like more radiused or have architectural

1033
01:22:51,840 --> 01:22:57,639
detail that's a little nicer for the
neighborhoods?

1034
01:22:59,280 --> 01:23:07,920
Um without knowing what is going to be
designed, it's hard to answer that. Um

1035
01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:11,920
that would be ultimately if it's a
senior housing, whatever it ends up

1036
01:23:09,440 --> 01:23:14,920
being designed at that point.
>> Okay,

1037
01:23:15,199 --> 01:23:26,239
» Commissioner,
>> just one last thing. Um,

1038
01:23:22,080 --> 01:23:32,440
in a previous iteration with with the
city, um,

1039
01:23:29,440 --> 01:23:32,440
I

1040
01:23:32,960 --> 01:23:43,120
did clearly came to the city requesting
assistance and another lake in the city

1041
01:23:40,159 --> 01:23:47,600
came to the city asking for assistance.
And one of the things that always may be

1042
01:23:45,280 --> 01:23:55,600
very favorable to requests from the
Clear Lake Association is that you have

1043
01:23:52,000 --> 01:24:00,880
at at that time better than 90% of your
residents that are part of the Clear

1044
01:23:58,159 --> 01:24:10,480
Lake Association.
that kind of cohesion and responsibility

1045
01:24:05,679 --> 01:24:16,400
and and and and demonstrated caring
about not only your own home and your

1046
01:24:13,120 --> 01:24:21,360
own dockage but the lake as a whole. the
way that you all have coordinated weed

1047
01:24:19,360 --> 01:24:26,239
and invasives
um control not only for your own

1048
01:24:23,600 --> 01:24:33,120
properties but for the center for the
with with the DNR is is really something

1049
01:24:30,320 --> 01:24:39,920
that that you can be very very proud of
and um that other lake um at the time

1050
01:24:37,280 --> 01:24:46,239
had less than 33 or 30% of their
residents that were really stepping up

1051
01:24:42,639 --> 01:24:54,280
the way that you do Um,
I see it. I appreciate it deeply. I

1052
01:24:49,840 --> 01:24:54,280
appreciated it then and I still do.

1053
01:24:54,400 --> 01:24:57,719
» Other commissioners?

1054
01:24:57,840 --> 01:25:03,280
» No, I think they covered the points that
I was looking at the traffic concerns at

1055
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:07,520
97
Edon. We'll get the traffic studies on

1056
01:25:05,520 --> 01:25:11,040
that. Uh, I want to hear from the Rice
Creek and I appreciate the comments from

1057
01:25:09,840 --> 01:25:15,679
the city tonight. Thank you for
everybody coming out.

1058
01:25:14,320 --> 01:25:20,719
One more.
>> Steve, you did a really nice job with

1059
01:25:17,440 --> 01:25:26,800
the the PowerPoint and the slide thing.
>> That that I appreciate it very much.

1060
01:25:23,360 --> 01:25:29,600
» Yeah, thank you.
>> Go ahead, Cy.

1061
01:25:28,000 --> 01:25:33,920
» I mean, I understand like we're at the
beginning stages and what we're seeing

1062
01:25:31,760 --> 01:25:38,960
on paper, it's effectively the bare
minimum of what you're presenting and

1063
01:25:35,920 --> 01:25:42,719
what can be developed into. Um, but it
really does to me look like just there

1064
01:25:41,199 --> 01:25:45,840
has been no consideration for the
surrounding area. Um, just the road, the

1065
01:25:44,880 --> 01:25:51,280
traffic, the things that have been
raised overall. Um, I I think coming

1066
01:25:49,520 --> 01:25:56,239
from somebody who grew up in the suburbs
of a bigger city, um, traffic sucks when

1067
01:25:54,639 --> 01:26:01,679
you start packing in more and more
people. Accountability of people in that

1068
01:25:58,960 --> 01:26:06,320
very dense area, um, or very small area
that's very dense, um, sucks. Um, so I

1069
01:26:04,400 --> 01:26:10,080
think the concerns have been brought up.
I don't want to just regurgitate them,

1070
01:26:08,000 --> 01:26:15,199
but I think it's very some very much
something to consider in terms of what

1071
01:26:12,960 --> 01:26:19,440
you're putting into that area. It is not
just that area. It is that whole street,

1072
01:26:17,520 --> 01:26:24,239
that whole neighborhood, the entrance to
Forest Lake. Um, and I think it's going

1073
01:26:21,440 --> 01:26:27,360
to it's not going to hit the way it
looks on paper in personal opinion

1074
01:26:26,239 --> 01:26:30,400
overall.
>> Thank you,

1075
01:26:27,920 --> 01:26:34,320
» Andy. Um,
would this property have voting rights

1076
01:26:32,480 --> 01:26:38,880
as part of the lake association? That
might be more of a staff question.

1077
01:26:37,199 --> 01:26:42,560
» It's actually a private property owner
matter just because lake association is

1078
01:26:40,800 --> 01:26:46,159
private property. They do touch the
lake. So, it all just depends on that

1079
01:26:44,159 --> 01:26:49,920
association's documents.
>> So, that theoretically this new

1080
01:26:48,320 --> 01:26:52,480
apartment building could overrule all
the votes on the lake depending on how

1081
01:26:51,520 --> 01:26:55,520
it's done.
>> So, that's a concern. I don't know how

1082
01:26:54,320 --> 01:26:59,280
that
>> this is a legitimate concern for the

1083
01:26:56,960 --> 01:27:06,080
lake that needs to be addressed before
things get down the road too far. Um I

1084
01:27:02,560 --> 01:27:10,159
think not having a partner for what this
thing will really look like I think is a

1085
01:27:08,639 --> 01:27:14,480
red flag. I understand this is very
preliminary. Um I'm going to reiterate I

1086
01:27:12,719 --> 01:27:21,199
think mistakes were made in the past in
previous organizations plannings. Um,

1087
01:27:17,760 --> 01:27:26,960
and I appreciate that other entities
don't think that this is a wildlife area

1088
01:27:24,320 --> 01:27:30,800
that matters, but the wildlife don't
look at that line on a map and say, "Oh,

1089
01:27:28,560 --> 01:27:35,920
gee, I can't go over there." We're
seeing fencing put along 97 and 35 that

1090
01:27:34,400 --> 01:27:40,239
accommodate to prevent turtles from
crossing roads. I mean, that's a

1091
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:43,840
reality. The the animals are going to go
where they're going to go. And if you

1092
01:27:41,920 --> 01:27:48,960
literally turn the entire area into
impervious surface, that's not okay in

1093
01:27:47,360 --> 01:27:53,120
my opinion. That's not something that's
balancing into our city the way we want.

1094
01:27:51,600 --> 01:27:59,280
It's not that I'm against departments. I
used to do property management. Um, but

1095
01:27:56,320 --> 01:28:01,920
this this area in my opinion was
probably zoned the wrong way and I don't

1096
01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:06,639
think we should continue with the
mistake. Um, I do have one specific

1097
01:28:04,239 --> 01:28:11,120
question for the for the for the map. It
says swim area in a lot of several

1098
01:28:09,360 --> 01:28:14,880
places. Storm water management.
>> Storm water management.

1099
01:28:13,679 --> 01:28:18,400
» You know what? I need the same as it
used to be. I apologize.

1100
01:28:16,000 --> 01:28:20,800
» You need your glasses, Andy. [laughter]
>> That explains a lot. That makes more

1101
01:28:19,840 --> 01:28:25,360
sense. Thank you.
>> Yeah. And if you don't mind, just uh I

1102
01:28:23,520 --> 01:28:31,920
can respond to some comments that were
made. As part of the process, Rice uh

1103
01:28:28,719 --> 01:28:37,120
Creek Watershed District um will require
that the storm water runoff does not

1104
01:28:34,320 --> 01:28:41,120
change um and will likely go down from
its current state. Um, and that's what

1105
01:28:39,520 --> 01:28:46,239
this I brought that up because that's
what the storm water ponds are for to

1106
01:28:43,679 --> 01:28:52,400
control runoff. And even though you have
up to 25% impervious surface, that water

1107
01:28:50,000 --> 01:28:59,040
will go into those ponds and then be
metered out so that the pace of the

1108
01:28:54,639 --> 01:29:02,400
water infiltration is uh at or below its
current level.

1109
01:29:00,159 --> 01:29:05,199
» That's also a city build requirement
that you cannot have any runoff come

1110
01:29:04,560 --> 01:29:06,719
from
>> correct

1111
01:29:05,600 --> 01:29:13,120
» your development.
>> Yes. So, I will just say I've dealt with

1112
01:29:09,280 --> 01:29:18,000
Rice Creek wershed in the past and the
problem is when you're the low spot on

1113
01:29:14,800 --> 01:29:21,679
the on the on the map, you are the final
spot when the heavy rains come.

1114
01:29:20,000 --> 01:29:27,040
» And even though you plan for what you're
supposed to plan for, it gets worse. And

1115
01:29:24,000 --> 01:29:31,920
if when we get the 100 and 500y year
floods

1116
01:29:29,520 --> 01:29:36,880
taking up that much impervious area in a
wet land like this whether it's wetland

1117
01:29:34,719 --> 01:29:41,840
now or not it is the natural buffer that
this area needs.

1118
01:29:39,920 --> 01:29:46,000
» Thank you.
So I don't live on Clear Lake but I live

1119
01:29:43,760 --> 01:29:50,400
on Forest Lake and Northshore Apartments
which is fairly large complex over

1120
01:29:47,760 --> 01:29:54,880
there. They have no dock and they seem
to get along just fine. And it seems

1121
01:29:52,800 --> 01:30:01,679
that all the neighbors like that also.
So just that's one comment. I'm a little

1122
01:29:59,040 --> 01:30:07,760
disappointed you don't have a builder.
Um because what we could see next could

1123
01:30:03,840 --> 01:30:13,120
be radically different than this. So
that doesn't warm the cockles of my

1124
01:30:10,159 --> 01:30:18,080
heart as my mother would say. Um I have
a lot of concern on the traffic in and

1125
01:30:15,199 --> 01:30:24,400
out going down uh I believe that's
Everton. I always screw up the streets

1126
01:30:20,639 --> 01:30:29,040
over there. I apologize. Um,
it goes into a neighbor and dumping 200

1127
01:30:26,880 --> 01:30:34,400
and some apartments on it at site. It's
a side street. It is not a thorough

1128
01:30:31,840 --> 01:30:39,920
fair. It's not like
um 61 or 97 or even Northshore which we

1129
01:30:38,239 --> 01:30:44,639
got more dumping on. The whole apartment
dumps on there. It's not a problem, but

1130
01:30:41,760 --> 01:30:48,239
there's nowhere to go except I believe I
measured it today if I understand it

1131
01:30:46,320 --> 01:30:54,639
right about 300 feet from there to the
light. So you get about 10 12 cars max

1132
01:30:52,159 --> 01:31:02,080
stacked waiting at the light which seems
to me it's not going to go well. Um so I

1133
01:31:00,159 --> 01:31:07,920
realize that development will probably
happen here. I mean we know that it's

1134
01:31:05,120 --> 01:31:12,000
it's eligible. You know they can do auto
repair there auto sales. They can build

1135
01:31:10,080 --> 01:31:17,760
a bank. They can put a restaurant and a
bar in there. All that's allowed in the

1136
01:31:14,320 --> 01:31:23,760
zoning district. Um, so you may be the
least of the evils, but I think we have

1137
01:31:20,000 --> 01:31:28,560
a long way to go based on what you
presented today when you don't have a

1138
01:31:25,440 --> 01:31:34,480
partner yet. This zone does require
underground parking. So, as Steve said,

1139
01:31:31,600 --> 01:31:39,120
uh, as part of the PUD, you probably
looked at garages instead, but I think

1140
01:31:37,360 --> 01:31:45,560
that needs to be looked at seriously
also.

1141
01:31:41,040 --> 01:31:45,560
And I think that kind of ends

1142
01:31:46,159 --> 01:31:54,080
my comments.
>> And the last thing about a PUB is

1143
01:31:50,480 --> 01:31:58,239
» PUD is designed to give some flexibility
to a developer,

1144
01:31:56,080 --> 01:32:03,120
but in return there should be
significant specific benefits to the

1145
01:32:01,199 --> 01:32:10,960
city.
um in in in return for that flexibility

1146
01:32:09,360 --> 01:32:15,920
and
I grant that this is very very prelim

1147
01:32:13,600 --> 01:32:19,960
preliminary
but I don't see those yet

1148
01:32:20,320 --> 01:32:27,760
commissioners. Any other comments?
Staff, would you like to see any other

1149
01:32:25,600 --> 01:32:31,120
comments from us? Any concerns? Any
issues we did not discuss?

1150
01:32:29,520 --> 01:32:35,199
» No, I think I think this has been
thorough. Um, just want to remind

1151
01:32:32,960 --> 01:32:40,159
everybody in this room that uh the man
sitting to my left will be uh up there

1152
01:32:37,600 --> 01:32:44,880
on Monday uh for the city council and
you're all welcome to come and provide

1153
01:32:42,960 --> 01:32:48,960
additional comment for this being heard
at that city council meeting. I'm sure

1154
01:32:46,480 --> 01:32:52,320
everybody would like to um have that
opportunity to at least go to the city

1155
01:32:50,800 --> 01:32:57,199
council. They'll be [snorts] providing
uh kind of the city's uh co

1156
01:32:54,880 --> 01:33:01,199
comprehensive comment uh taking all the
comments that have come from parks the

1157
01:32:59,040 --> 01:33:04,719
public as well as uh this board right
here this commission and providing like

1158
01:33:03,440 --> 01:33:08,000
the official here's here's a
recommendation. So uh that's Monday

1159
01:33:06,320 --> 01:33:11,199
night at 6 in this room
>> and that runs just the same as tonight.

1160
01:33:09,679 --> 01:33:16,480
It's not a public hearing. Comments will
be accepted during open forum, but I

1161
01:33:13,280 --> 01:33:18,800
will be there to to encap encapsulate
everything that's been discussed

1162
01:33:17,440 --> 01:33:22,400
tonight. Everything that's been in the
record or anything submitted before that

1163
01:33:20,800 --> 01:33:27,280
meeting will be entered into the record
as well. But again, their decision is

1164
01:33:24,960 --> 01:33:29,520
non-binding feedback for the developer
to determine if he wants to move

1165
01:33:28,560 --> 01:33:32,960
forward.
>> Mr. Kevin, you have any other comments

1166
01:33:31,280 --> 01:33:36,639
or any information you would like from
the commission or the staff?

1167
01:33:34,880 --> 01:33:38,960
» No, I do not. Thank you all for taking
the time.

1168
01:33:37,280 --> 01:33:42,000
» Thank you for coming this evening. Thank
you for coming tonight.

1169
01:33:40,320 --> 01:33:46,400
» Thank you for all coming and
participating this evening. Uh you're

1170
01:33:44,719 --> 01:33:49,360
more than welcome to stay for the next
item. I know it'll be even more

1171
01:33:48,480 --> 01:33:54,639
riveting.
>> Well,

1172
01:33:51,280 --> 01:33:56,960
quite frankly, um
>> no

1173
01:33:55,040 --> 01:34:03,600
» data centers is a big deal.
>> So, data centers in Forest Lake.

1174
01:34:00,800 --> 01:34:07,800
» No, no, no.
>> Let's just

1175
01:34:04,800 --> 01:34:07,800
» No.

1176
01:34:12,000 --> 01:34:17,280
you.
>> We'll let the room clear for a minute

1177
01:34:15,280 --> 01:34:18,719
here.
>> Thank you.

1178
01:34:18,159 --> 01:34:22,280
» Thank you.
>> How you doing, Pat?

1179
01:34:25,760 --> 01:34:33,440
» He was on the commission
>> probably 15 years ago,

1180
01:34:31,440 --> 01:34:37,719
» maybe 10.
Uh Pat

1181
01:34:46,159 --> 01:34:50,360
could become the deadliest inter.

1182
01:34:59,040 --> 01:35:07,199
» We we ask you please clear the room so
we continue our meeting. [laughter]

1183
01:35:04,320 --> 01:35:07,199
» I don't

1184
01:35:08,480 --> 01:35:20,159
trying to make the big bucks tonight.
>> Thank you all.

1185
01:35:14,239 --> 01:35:25,199
I lost uh we'll move to item eight or uh
zoning code land use review data

1186
01:35:22,400 --> 01:35:27,600
centers. Abby, I saw your name at the
top. Are you the one presenting or

1187
01:35:27,199 --> 01:35:31,040
Steve?
>> I'd be happy to. So,

1188
01:35:30,080 --> 01:35:36,800
» it's all yours.
>> Excellent. Thank you. Um, so I just

1189
01:35:33,040 --> 01:35:40,000
wanna like I think Steve puts right at
the beginning like what's the top, you

1190
01:35:38,639 --> 01:35:43,920
know, what's the highlight here. The
highlight is staff wants to have a

1191
01:35:41,840 --> 01:35:48,880
preemptive conversation with both the
planning commission and hopefully then

1192
01:35:45,440 --> 01:35:54,000
the city council about enacting a up to
one-year moratorum on data centers in

1193
01:35:51,199 --> 01:35:58,400
Forest Lake. So, as many of you may have
known, unless you've been sleeping under

1194
01:35:56,000 --> 01:36:04,159
rocks lately, is that there's been a lot
of interest in all states, um, but in

1195
01:36:01,120 --> 01:36:08,000
the metro area about data centers. Um,
and a lot of cities are finding

1196
01:36:06,000 --> 01:36:12,400
themselves either maybe backed against a
wall or not well protected in terms of

1197
01:36:10,960 --> 01:36:18,000
whether or not data centers are
addressed in their zoning code. So, City

1198
01:36:15,199 --> 01:36:23,280
of Forest Lake actually owns 123 acres
that our city was actively marketing for

1199
01:36:20,560 --> 01:36:28,159
a data center up until more recently
when the EDA and the council decided to

1200
01:36:25,840 --> 01:36:33,679
kind of maybe move away from that a
little bit recognizing that there might

1201
01:36:30,400 --> 01:36:36,560
be higher and better land uses for this.
>> Abby, can you describe where the 123

1202
01:36:36,000 --> 01:36:41,600
acres
>> uh at the inner southeast intersection

1203
01:36:38,800 --> 01:36:46,719
of Fenway Avenue and um Headwaters
Parkway? So, Kitty Corner from Leela,

1204
01:36:44,320 --> 01:36:50,880
there's a big open vacant land that city
owns. That's the piece of property that

1205
01:36:48,719 --> 01:36:56,800
Headwaters 123 is what it had been
dubbed. Um, it was more recently the EDA

1206
01:36:54,880 --> 01:37:01,119
and city council has directed me to kind
of work towards marketing it in a

1207
01:36:58,480 --> 01:37:05,360
different way to maximize the land
developability there, more jobs, more

1208
01:37:03,600 --> 01:37:12,719
tax base than a data center would
provide. Um, so

1209
01:37:08,639 --> 01:37:15,520
flash forward, fast forward to to to now
when cities are kind of finding

1210
01:37:14,080 --> 01:37:21,040
themselves a little backed against the
wall. Staff took a look at our code and

1211
01:37:17,840 --> 01:37:25,679
we outright permit data center
questionably outright permit data

1212
01:37:23,199 --> 01:37:31,119
centers in our in our business park
districts. I believe that our zoning

1213
01:37:28,239 --> 01:37:35,440
code was set up this way, maybe with a
little ambiguity to not know for sure if

1214
01:37:33,600 --> 01:37:38,800
it's exactly a data center or a data
center. for what size or if a data

1215
01:37:36,960 --> 01:37:44,159
center is a part of a different type of
use. Um regardless, I believe that it

1216
01:37:42,560 --> 01:37:50,159
was set up that way specifically because
of Headarters 123 and the city's desire

1217
01:37:46,719 --> 01:37:55,840
to potentially, you know, attract a a
data center at some point. So, um, staff

1218
01:37:53,119 --> 01:38:00,800
wanted to bring this to you because what
we believe we should be doing is, um,

1219
01:37:58,400 --> 01:38:06,960
asking the city council to enact a
moratorum that would give us up to one

1220
01:38:02,960 --> 01:38:10,719
year to one, define data centers.
to have a conversation um planning

1221
01:38:09,360 --> 01:38:13,920
commission, city council, and the
community of whether or not we'd like

1222
01:38:12,400 --> 01:38:19,040
data centers and where we would like
data centers and how big of data centers

1223
01:38:16,000 --> 01:38:23,840
versus um you know, a standalone data
center versus a portion of a property as

1224
01:38:21,760 --> 01:38:28,159
part of a data center. You know, all
those conversations

1225
01:38:25,679 --> 01:38:33,760
um and then performance standards about
them. So, tonight you heard on um the

1226
01:38:31,119 --> 01:38:37,600
Clear Lake Apartments garages need to be
underground. That's a performance

1227
01:38:35,199 --> 01:38:42,400
standard specific to the M parking for
MU2. Right now, we don't have any

1228
01:38:40,239 --> 01:38:47,920
performance standards for these types of
uses. And that I do believe is where we

1229
01:38:45,520 --> 01:38:50,719
could be most liable if we ended are not
liable.

1230
01:38:49,040 --> 01:38:54,800
» Um liable is not a good word.
>> Exposed

1231
01:38:51,360 --> 01:38:58,880
» exposed um because our maybe screening
standards might not quite address this

1232
01:38:57,199 --> 01:39:03,119
type of use or the ancillary
requirements of this type of use. So

1233
01:39:01,119 --> 01:39:07,520
tonight I'm asking you to discuss this
and to make a hopefully you consider

1234
01:39:05,920 --> 01:39:12,000
making a recommendation to the city
council that the city council enact a

1235
01:39:09,760 --> 01:39:15,520
moratorum on data centers to give us
some time to define them uh establish

1236
01:39:14,320 --> 01:39:18,800
whether or not we'd like to see them
where we'd like to see them and then

1237
01:39:17,199 --> 01:39:20,719
performance standards for them within
the city.

1238
01:39:20,320 --> 01:39:25,440
» Commissioner,
>> any questions?

1239
01:39:22,320 --> 01:39:30,159
» Yeah. How would we be exposed without
putting on this official moratorum? What

1240
01:39:28,320 --> 01:39:32,719
what's our exposure? I mean someone
coming in and saying we want to put it

1241
01:39:31,360 --> 01:39:35,920
in a data center
>> and provide water and electricity to us.

1242
01:39:35,280 --> 01:39:39,360
» Um
>> well there would be there would be a

1243
01:39:37,760 --> 01:39:42,639
whole bunch of negotiation. I mean these
are these are companies with a lot of

1244
01:39:41,440 --> 01:39:45,280
financial backing.
>> Yep.

1245
01:39:43,040 --> 01:39:50,639
» And if we have concerns such as water
and electricity and all those things you

1246
01:39:47,600 --> 01:39:54,480
could bring them to them and they could
possibly bring a lot of positive things

1247
01:39:52,000 --> 01:39:56,320
to the city. 100% I do believe I I do
want to say

1248
01:39:55,199 --> 01:40:00,159
» I'm just curious what
>> Yep. From staff's perspective, I'm not

1249
01:39:58,320 --> 01:40:05,360
saying that data centers are the evil
enemy that you might see a lot of people

1250
01:40:02,719 --> 01:40:10,400
thinking they are. They do provide for
um construction jobs. They might not

1251
01:40:07,360 --> 01:40:13,600
term provide for long-term um jobs, but
they do provide for construction

1252
01:40:12,080 --> 01:40:18,000
positions for a few years within
community. They are strong tax base

1253
01:40:15,440 --> 01:40:21,600
earners within a community and they are
designing systems that can be more

1254
01:40:19,600 --> 01:40:27,840
self-reliant than older systems that
don't take as much um pressure on the

1255
01:40:25,199 --> 01:40:31,199
natural resources. I don't necessarily
think that they are a bad thing and I

1256
01:40:29,600 --> 01:40:35,280
want to reiterate that staff doesn't
think that that's the reason we should

1257
01:40:32,719 --> 01:40:40,560
do this. The concern that I have is we
should probably take a pause to look at

1258
01:40:38,080 --> 01:40:45,760
our code to see if we are well
protected. Just as a reminder, outright

1259
01:40:43,119 --> 01:40:52,239
permitted uses, you don't really get a
whole lot of say in them, right? When we

1260
01:40:50,080 --> 01:40:56,800
conditionally approve something or when
we end up doing a planned unit

1261
01:40:54,159 --> 01:41:00,719
development, then we have that a lot
more

1262
01:40:59,040 --> 01:41:06,480
we'll trade this for that, you know,
type of thing. Sometimes when you have

1263
01:41:03,520 --> 01:41:10,400
an outright permitted use, you have to
go by the standards that are in place

1264
01:41:08,480 --> 01:41:15,600
either for that type of use or that type
of design. And I would say that in

1265
01:41:13,280 --> 01:41:20,800
looking at our design standards for the
business park district, um especially

1266
01:41:18,239 --> 01:41:26,000
with some of the accessory type of
features that they might have, cooling

1267
01:41:22,880 --> 01:41:30,480
towers, solar panels,
um you know, ex exterior power

1268
01:41:28,560 --> 01:41:36,639
generation that I just don't believe
that our code as it sits right now would

1269
01:41:33,920 --> 01:41:43,440
adequately screen from adjacent
properties um and may not

1270
01:41:40,560 --> 01:41:47,920
pro We may not have a good design in the
end should we choose to allow for a data

1271
01:41:46,159 --> 01:41:50,880
center or should a data center
application come forward. Does that make

1272
01:41:49,679 --> 01:41:54,800
sense?
>> Now if it was on our property yes Don

1273
01:41:53,119 --> 01:41:59,119
Don I think that's a really great if
it's on the city's headarters 123 then

1274
01:41:57,119 --> 01:42:04,000
yes I think we can say before we would
sell you this we want XYZ. What I am

1275
01:42:01,760 --> 01:42:07,199
concerned is there is more business park
land zoned within the city that is not

1276
01:42:06,159 --> 01:42:11,440
owned by the city
>> because my concern would be if we we

1277
01:42:08,800 --> 01:42:14,960
throw a moratorum on it then do we
possibly miss out on a an opportunity

1278
01:42:14,560 --> 01:42:19,199
» well
>> because though they well they can't do

1279
01:42:17,040 --> 01:42:24,080
it here they go on to Wyoming or or
wherever to to to do it.

1280
01:42:21,679 --> 01:42:27,600
» Yep. That it that is a good question.
when we are in the technology corridor.

1281
01:42:26,159 --> 01:42:34,480
So there's several cities and counties
along I35. Um Kexus and and XL Energy

1282
01:42:32,239 --> 01:42:41,920
have been partners in trying to market
these for high energy users. Um it could

1283
01:42:39,360 --> 01:42:46,400
happen that it could go, you know, to a
Wyoming to a north branch. I think

1284
01:42:44,400 --> 01:42:51,280
taking a pause and I keep saying for up
to one year statutoily we can only do up

1285
01:42:48,800 --> 01:42:56,000
to one year. It would be my hope that we
kind of work through that process. uh

1286
01:42:54,239 --> 01:42:57,040
you know with maybe even by the end of
this year.

1287
01:42:56,560 --> 01:43:00,400
» Yeah.
>> So

1288
01:42:58,159 --> 01:43:03,440
» and then we could shorten a moratorum
then end a moratorum.

1289
01:43:01,840 --> 01:43:08,239
» Yeah. You end the moratorium when you
adopt an ordinance if you want to adopt

1290
01:43:05,920 --> 01:43:11,679
an ordinance or you just say nope. We're
done. We're okay with our code.

1291
01:43:09,920 --> 01:43:16,000
» So is this going to affect my zoning
corridor or updates?

1292
01:43:14,480 --> 01:43:19,679
» Everything affects your zoning code
updates at the moment.

1293
01:43:18,080 --> 01:43:24,960
» Just wanted to hear it live.
>> Yep.

1294
01:43:21,600 --> 01:43:28,560
» All right. Other comments, concerns?
>> I definitely have some concerns with the

1295
01:43:26,560 --> 01:43:34,080
length of time, a full year for it. I
think we could be missing the boat. If

1296
01:43:31,280 --> 01:43:38,560
they're looking to develop in this area,
um,

1297
01:43:36,320 --> 01:43:42,639
a year is a long time to go, especially
if they're doing it right now.

1298
01:43:40,639 --> 01:43:48,320
» I only included that to point out the
statutory requirement. We don't actually

1299
01:43:44,719 --> 01:43:52,320
have to state any time in the I may have
put recommendation for a one-year

1300
01:43:50,000 --> 01:43:56,560
moratorum. You could say six months, you
could say six weeks. That's not the

1301
01:43:54,000 --> 01:44:01,119
thing necessarily. It's the the pause
that gives us that ability for up to a

1302
01:43:59,040 --> 01:44:04,880
year. I certainly would take the
planning commission's discussion and

1303
01:44:02,560 --> 01:44:10,400
recommendation on where we kind of feed
this into our priority level, but we are

1304
01:44:07,520 --> 01:44:14,719
also in peak development and inquir new
inquiries are coming in every day. So,

1305
01:44:12,000 --> 01:44:18,639
as much as we want to work this in, I do
think that this probably would be a

1306
01:44:16,880 --> 01:44:22,480
closer to fall where we'd have a lot
more time to to work on it.

1307
01:44:21,360 --> 01:44:28,560
» Andy,
>> um, I think it would be very

1308
01:44:26,159 --> 01:44:33,280
citizenfriendly to make sure the
whatever ordinance changes we do include

1309
01:44:30,719 --> 01:44:37,199
that we do not have NDAs as part of
these negotiations. That is a very

1310
01:44:35,440 --> 01:44:41,360
common practice for data centers. when
they approach a city, they sign NDAs and

1311
01:44:39,840 --> 01:44:45,760
then the city cannot disclose to their
citizens what they're allowing in the

1312
01:44:43,119 --> 01:44:51,440
city. So, I think if you want to see the
room 10 times fuller than this, you

1313
01:44:47,920 --> 01:44:56,560
include NDAs um or you don't require you
allow NDAs. Um I am not

1314
01:44:54,560 --> 01:45:01,600
» prohibit NDAs.
>> Yes, we want to prohibit if if the city

1315
01:44:58,960 --> 01:45:06,159
allows them to require NDAs for
negotiations, you're going to have a

1316
01:45:03,520 --> 01:45:09,600
very upset citizenry. Um
>> Sure. I will say that's generally not

1317
01:45:07,760 --> 01:45:13,760
something you'd put in your zoning code,
but that is something that I think that

1318
01:45:11,199 --> 01:45:19,360
I can take and bring to the the council
in regards to policy, city policy.

1319
01:45:16,480 --> 01:45:25,040
» Um because I think why I do think it's
important to do some type of moratorium

1320
01:45:21,760 --> 01:45:31,119
to get our ducks in a row is what if we
were talking about a data center on the

1321
01:45:28,000 --> 01:45:35,040
Clear Lake land? I mean, that's not a
very good use next to a bunch of

1322
01:45:32,400 --> 01:45:40,080
residential and wildlife. So, I think
it's important for us to make sure we

1323
01:45:36,480 --> 01:45:44,000
get this right. Hitting pause. Um, and I
think I I think you are not prepared for

1324
01:45:42,400 --> 01:45:48,880
the amount of people who do not want
data centers near them. So, I don't

1325
01:45:46,800 --> 01:45:52,440
think embracing them with open arms is
quite the right approach.

1326
01:45:53,040 --> 01:46:02,000
» Susan,
>> as I remember our 2030 comp plan, um, we

1327
01:46:00,400 --> 01:46:06,480
all
we need to think about another we need

1328
01:46:04,000 --> 01:46:12,800
to be thinking about um the water that
we're supplying to our residents. And um

1329
01:46:10,400 --> 01:46:20,480
I I I was really sobered when I was up
at the neighborhood meeting and realized

1330
01:46:15,360 --> 01:46:27,760
how much along County Road 50
north of north of 50 and toward the the

1331
01:46:24,159 --> 01:46:31,600
Harrow area, the sheer number of
dwelling units that are going in there

1332
01:46:29,679 --> 01:46:38,880
that we have, you know, platted and and
and together. And um I I just want to

1333
01:46:36,000 --> 01:46:45,440
make sure that considering what the
requirements or what we would ask of the

1334
01:46:40,800 --> 01:46:51,920
data center would be. Um that we we we
make sure that that the water and energy

1335
01:46:49,840 --> 01:46:57,119
requirements balanced against the water
and energy requirements of our residents

1336
01:46:54,960 --> 01:47:04,080
um
are are a big piece of the evaluation.

1337
01:47:01,520 --> 01:47:09,760
I will say that at the moment it it
without a moratorum I don't know that

1338
01:47:06,080 --> 01:47:14,400
staff is going to just take this on it.
We recognize that we need to um but we

1339
01:47:12,639 --> 01:47:19,280
also have to be able to work on it peace
mill and so I I will write that down if

1340
01:47:16,719 --> 01:47:22,960
we do end up if that is something the
city chooses to do

1341
01:47:20,560 --> 01:47:27,520
» and I'm sorry to interrupt but did I
would consider those as reasons for a

1342
01:47:25,119 --> 01:47:31,840
moratorum because we need to really
understand

1343
01:47:29,119 --> 01:47:37,360
what our development. I consider a
development boom right now. Yeah.

1344
01:47:33,920 --> 01:47:42,080
» Um where we are with water and sewer and
and electrical needs.

1345
01:47:39,360 --> 01:47:46,560
» Yeah. That's a really good point because
um we are you know in some areas of the

1346
01:47:44,239 --> 01:47:51,280
city I would say that until there's
additional electrical capacity uh

1347
01:47:49,040 --> 01:47:56,320
electrical generation created that there
is some that there are areas where there

1348
01:47:53,920 --> 01:48:00,239
is lower amount of uh electrical
availability and water especially as we

1349
01:47:58,320 --> 01:48:04,239
move into the southwest corner of the
city

1350
01:48:02,239 --> 01:48:10,159
» and the northeast doesn't have water.
>> Yeah. Well, it never did so was never

1351
01:48:06,719 --> 01:48:13,040
planned for it.
I I'll make a note of that and we'll

1352
01:48:11,760 --> 01:48:17,760
take a look at that.
>> Yeah, it's been noted.

1353
01:48:14,960 --> 01:48:23,520
» One of one of the other issues I've as
these have been going across the country

1354
01:48:19,440 --> 01:48:28,480
is if your city is not prepared, you
have to allow them in and then if

1355
01:48:25,600 --> 01:48:32,159
they're underpowered, the residents get
their bills increased to make up that

1356
01:48:30,480 --> 01:48:37,199
difference. So there's there's a lot of
moving parts to make sure that we're

1357
01:48:34,960 --> 01:48:42,080
ready so that our residents aren't
negatively impacted financially to help

1358
01:48:39,840 --> 01:48:47,199
this business make money
>> and I really appreciate that staff wants

1359
01:48:44,159 --> 01:48:50,320
to be proactive on this. Thank you very
much.

1360
01:48:48,159 --> 01:48:55,119
» Other comments?
Should we take a straw poll of how many

1361
01:48:52,159 --> 01:49:01,239
are in favor?
>> Yeah, for a moratorum

1362
01:48:58,239 --> 01:49:01,239
I

1363
01:49:01,280 --> 01:49:06,560
I think we uh we're in favor.
>> Is that all we need tonight?

1364
01:49:04,800 --> 01:49:10,320
» Uh well, and I put it on as discussion,
but I would like it if you made a motion

1365
01:49:08,719 --> 01:49:13,520
for a recommendation to the city
council.

1366
01:49:11,040 --> 01:49:21,119
» I will make a motion that we do up to
one-year moratorum for the city to

1367
01:49:16,960 --> 01:49:24,400
analyze and develop a data center plan.
>> I have a motion. Do I have a second?

1368
01:49:23,360 --> 01:49:28,239
» Second.
>> Have a motion and a second. Any

1369
01:49:25,840 --> 01:49:32,560
discussion on the motion?
Any discussion hearing? None. All those

1370
01:49:30,400 --> 01:49:36,239
in favor signify by saying I. I.
>> I.

1371
01:49:33,199 --> 01:49:40,159
» Opposed. Abstensions.
Motion carries unanimously.

1372
01:49:39,040 --> 01:49:43,920
» Anything else you need, Abby?
>> Not at this time. I'll we'll keep you

1373
01:49:42,000 --> 01:49:46,880
posted on that and what kind of our
timeline on that plan will be.

1374
01:49:45,440 --> 01:49:50,719
» All right. Thank you. We'll move to
number nine, our updates. We'll start

1375
01:49:48,800 --> 01:49:53,719
with our honorable council person
Larson.

1376
01:49:55,360 --> 01:50:01,360
» Evening chairman, commissioners. Um,
it's been a little while since we've

1377
01:49:59,360 --> 01:50:06,800
met. I hope everybody had a nice
holiday. Um,

1378
01:50:04,639 --> 01:50:10,960
uh, not pertaining to the commission,
but I'd just like to say that, uh, I was

1379
01:50:08,960 --> 01:50:14,000
at the inaugural of the farmers market
out here in the lot, and it was

1380
01:50:12,480 --> 01:50:19,040
fabulous.
>> Great response. Uh, lots of people, a

1381
01:50:17,360 --> 01:50:22,320
lot of vendors,
>> uh, they want to bring in, but they

1382
01:50:20,719 --> 01:50:26,080
don't want to have nine people that are
selling bread.

1383
01:50:23,920 --> 01:50:28,400
» So, they're kind of moving it around a
little bit.

1384
01:50:27,520 --> 01:50:30,239
When is that?
>> Pardon, sir.

1385
01:50:28,960 --> 01:50:36,880
» When is that?
>> Saturdays from 8 until noon and July

1386
01:50:34,080 --> 01:50:42,639
11th. This coming Saturday, the corn
will be coming to this farmers market.

1387
01:50:40,080 --> 01:50:48,560
» There you go. You got it straight. Uh
the other thing is Arts in the Park.

1388
01:50:44,639 --> 01:50:53,360
There's been phenomenal participation.
Um the weather's been cooperative to a

1389
01:50:51,840 --> 01:50:58,800
point. It's been hot and stuff like
that. Uh but we've had a lot of uh a lot

1390
01:50:56,719 --> 01:51:05,440
of people out there. I was fortunate
enough to be out there the first Tuesday

1391
01:51:03,520 --> 01:51:10,639
uh at our booth and stuff and everybody
was having a great time and uh yeah, I

1392
01:51:09,040 --> 01:51:16,080
think it was well well enjoyed by
everybody. So, if you do get a chance or

1393
01:51:13,119 --> 01:51:20,159
have not, please maybe take a Tuesday
night, come out with your lawn chair,

1394
01:51:18,159 --> 01:51:25,679
listen to some music or whatever and
take in some of our our fine vendors and

1395
01:51:22,960 --> 01:51:29,840
community members there.
As far as other city business goes, I

1396
01:51:27,440 --> 01:51:33,679
don't really have anything right now.
Um, due to the long holiday and things

1397
01:51:32,400 --> 01:51:38,639
like that, we haven't really had a
council meeting. So, as you all know,

1398
01:51:35,920 --> 01:51:44,320
we're meeting Monday and we have a a lot
on our plate for that. So, um, if you

1399
01:51:42,400 --> 01:51:46,400
have any questions of me or anything I
can help you with, I will do my very

1400
01:51:45,840 --> 01:51:50,552
best.
>> How is budget development going?

1401
01:51:48,560 --> 01:51:53,360
» It's a work in progress. Okay.
[laughter]

1402
01:51:52,159 --> 01:51:58,239
» You're getting good at this.
>> I'm I'm doing my best. There is There's

1403
01:51:55,840 --> 01:52:03,840
been a lot of things and that have kind
of

1404
01:51:59,840 --> 01:52:07,440
been produced and stuff like that. Um
we're

1405
01:52:05,599 --> 01:52:12,800
we're cautious
with what we're doing because there is a

1406
01:52:10,000 --> 01:52:18,639
lot of things. So I think as far as
staff goes, uh the council goes working

1407
01:52:16,560 --> 01:52:25,119
with the city engineer and stuff to try
to making smooth progression with

1408
01:52:21,920 --> 01:52:30,960
things. We want progression.
the recession part of it. Um but we want

1409
01:52:28,000 --> 01:52:36,480
to make sure as say we want to do it
right.

1410
01:52:32,480 --> 01:52:42,239
So um but lots of things going on
>> with the

1411
01:52:38,639 --> 01:52:44,719
expected increase in bowling units.
There will be an increased demand on

1412
01:52:43,679 --> 01:52:49,840
city services.
>> Yes, there will be. And as you know,

1413
01:52:47,520 --> 01:52:55,520
you've seen we had some retirements in
our police department. But again, uh not

1414
01:52:53,040 --> 01:53:01,360
too long ago, we in addition to our fire
department. So now we have an assistant

1415
01:52:57,920 --> 01:53:06,239
chief. So um I think Mr. Newman is
gearing that gentleman up for all his

1416
01:53:03,760 --> 01:53:11,920
his uh
procedures and things like that to uh

1417
01:53:08,719 --> 01:53:15,520
maybe eventually retire at some point.
He's a very busy man as well. So

1418
01:53:13,920 --> 01:53:22,239
» say himself.
>> So as far as city staff goes, I think uh

1419
01:53:18,320 --> 01:53:26,560
we've been doing well. Um haven't really
we haven't hired anybody. bank or

1420
01:53:24,239 --> 01:53:30,400
whatever. Maybe Abby can help me out
with that side of the fence there a

1421
01:53:28,080 --> 01:53:34,080
little bit. Um, are we still we're still
behind a little bit on a few staff

1422
01:53:32,080 --> 01:53:43,679
members?
>> Yeah, I mean I think the city has filled

1423
01:53:38,639 --> 01:53:48,639
all positions that councils prior to all
prior to the 26 budget. So positions

1424
01:53:46,159 --> 01:53:52,880
approved in like 24 and 25. I think that
they are all filled. On the

1425
01:53:50,960 --> 01:53:59,920
administration side, I can't speak for
PD and fire. I just they're kind of they

1426
01:53:56,560 --> 01:54:03,840
do their own thing. Um, we do have at
least uh one vacancy in building

1427
01:54:02,400 --> 01:54:07,199
inspections, but that's been a
long-standing vacancy. So, we are

1428
01:54:05,760 --> 01:54:11,679
actually doing interviews later this
week. Um, there were staffing requests

1429
01:54:09,920 --> 01:54:15,119
made to the city council, but the city
council hasn't made any determination of

1430
01:54:13,840 --> 01:54:22,080
whether or not they want to include
those requests in the 2027 budget. So

1431
01:54:20,560 --> 01:54:25,520
Jolene is the official city
administrator now.

1432
01:54:23,440 --> 01:54:28,480
» Acting city administrator
>> interim. So

1433
01:54:26,639 --> 01:54:33,280
» acting interim city administrator.
>> Is that a vacancy or not a vacancy?

1434
01:54:30,880 --> 01:54:37,760
» It's not a it's not a position that the
city is actively um seeking to fill at

1435
01:54:36,000 --> 01:54:40,320
the moment, but I do believe the intent
is to after the election.

1436
01:54:39,520 --> 01:54:48,000
» Correct.
>> Thank you.

1437
01:54:42,880 --> 01:54:50,159
» Any other questions for Mr. Larson?
Thank you for participating this

1438
01:54:49,360 --> 01:54:56,880
evening.
>> For the July 4th, public works, police,

1439
01:54:53,280 --> 01:54:59,760
fire, all stepped up big time and it's
appreciated.

1440
01:54:57,920 --> 01:55:04,239
» Yeah. Thank you again all for your
participation.

1441
01:55:02,159 --> 01:55:09,280
We all appreciate you. So, thank you
again.

1442
01:55:06,000 --> 01:55:14,239
» You Steve, anything for us?
>> Oh, man. Do I ever. Uh I hope you

1443
01:55:11,840 --> 01:55:18,320
enjoyed tonight. Uh we're kind of uh I
think the next uh planning commission I

1444
01:55:15,760 --> 01:55:22,800
was just going through our u our
schedule the next planning commission uh

1445
01:55:20,719 --> 01:55:26,480
should be uh you know maybe a little
breather for you. Uh maybe not. We have

1446
01:55:25,280 --> 01:55:31,679
another concept plan. We have a
neighborhood meeting tonight. It's for

1447
01:55:28,400 --> 01:55:36,080
uh Birwood Estates U KJ Walk. Next week
they go to parks in two weeks. They'll

1448
01:55:33,840 --> 01:55:40,800
be here with another concept plan for a
development just south of Amberly Woods

1449
01:55:37,760 --> 01:55:44,639
that just got approved. Um so um as
Commissioner Young was pointing out,

1450
01:55:42,159 --> 01:55:49,440
this is one of the the giant development
areas that the city is seeing and a boom

1451
01:55:46,960 --> 01:55:54,320
is is very much an understatement for
the historical growth that this city is

1452
01:55:52,719 --> 01:55:59,440
uh is under in the amount of
developments looking to to expand here.

1453
01:55:57,119 --> 01:56:03,840
Um so our work is cut out for us and I
had Abby here tonight to make sure that

1454
01:56:01,360 --> 01:56:08,960
she heard uh the chair Gerard bring up
the code updates. Um a big part of the

1455
01:56:06,960 --> 01:56:13,040
reason why uh those have been delayed is
because of the gang busters of

1456
01:56:10,880 --> 01:56:15,599
developments that we have coming in. Uh
so uh uh good good times across the

1457
01:56:15,440 --> 01:56:19,840
board.
>> Just so you know, Steve, that your

1458
01:56:17,440 --> 01:56:24,639
problem not
I said could you come here and cover me?

1459
01:56:22,000 --> 01:56:28,560
Could you cover me with uh Chair Gerard?
We will be uh getting into that. I think

1460
01:56:26,560 --> 01:56:33,040
it will be pushed to probably when we
get out of this um really fast-paced

1461
01:56:31,280 --> 01:56:37,520
development season. And speaking of that
development season, again, Birchwood

1462
01:56:34,639 --> 01:56:41,599
Estates will be here the 22nd um at the
next meeting. But also, I wanted to give

1463
01:56:39,520 --> 01:56:44,560
you a heads up that Hidden Creek South,
if you remember, we had a public hearing

1464
01:56:43,040 --> 01:56:50,239
and it was immediately tabled in
February. Um then, uh there's

1465
01:56:47,920 --> 01:56:55,360
discussions that the developer uh was
having with the council regarding some

1466
01:56:52,560 --> 01:56:59,440
um improvements to Headarters Parkway.
Um those those conversations have been

1467
01:56:57,840 --> 01:57:04,639
ironed out, decisions have been made.
Now, the developer is wanting to uh

1468
01:57:01,920 --> 01:57:10,880
continue. Um so, we're working with uh
him to uh get an updated kind of set

1469
01:57:08,239 --> 01:57:15,360
that reflects the the decisions that
have been made by the council. So, we're

1470
01:57:13,119 --> 01:57:21,840
looking at probably August 13th or the
um August 8th. Um I'm looking trying to

1471
01:57:18,000 --> 01:57:25,920
look at my schedule. Um August 12th uh
meeting that would potentially be uh

1472
01:57:24,080 --> 01:57:30,480
that coming back as well as a number of
public hearings for some variances that

1473
01:57:27,920 --> 01:57:34,000
are on the docket. So, uh, you may get a
little bit of a reprieve on the the at

1474
01:57:32,400 --> 01:57:38,719
the next planning commission, but come
August 12th, it's going to be

1475
01:57:36,560 --> 01:57:43,199
a real real it's going to be a big
meeting. Um, it as it's planned. Now, I

1476
01:57:41,760 --> 01:57:48,000
also wanted to say it was brought up uh
arts in the park um and how great it is.

1477
01:57:45,760 --> 01:57:51,119
It's not great yet because our we're
we'll be out there and I mentioned this

1478
01:57:49,280 --> 01:57:56,080
last time. We'll be out there the 21st
of this month, August 4th and August

1479
01:57:53,599 --> 01:57:59,840
18th. And um the community development
department will be out there to kind of

1480
01:57:57,280 --> 01:58:04,480
discuss some of the plan, what's being
proposed uh potentially for improvements

1481
01:58:02,080 --> 01:58:10,960
to the the park down there, especially
with the specific question of our our

1482
01:58:07,520 --> 01:58:16,000
the visitors and residents of the area
of the boat launch that's there. Um

1483
01:58:13,599 --> 01:58:20,800
there are some discussions of uh
potentially expanding the green space,

1484
01:58:18,560 --> 01:58:25,840
including an amphitheater there. So, we
are bringing that option as a

1485
01:58:22,880 --> 01:58:29,840
interactive kind of exhibit uh for uh
the visitors of Arts in the Park. So, if

1486
01:58:27,440 --> 01:58:33,599
you see us out there, uh, make sure you
stop by and you put a sticker on the

1487
01:58:31,440 --> 01:58:38,239
poster that you like the most. One that
either has the boat boat launch or one

1488
01:58:36,000 --> 01:58:41,520
that has a new amphitheater with a kayak
launch, non-motorized launch is what's

1489
01:58:40,000 --> 01:58:45,040
uh kind of being suggested with some of
our planning. So, we'll be out there

1490
01:58:43,360 --> 01:58:49,800
again the 21st, the 4th, and the 18th.
So, come by, say hi, and get a lollipop.

1491
01:58:50,000 --> 01:58:55,679
» Question for Steve.
[snorts]

1492
01:58:53,520 --> 01:58:58,880
» Didn't he do a fabulous job tonight on
presentation?

1493
01:58:57,760 --> 01:59:02,239
on
>> fabulous job.

1494
01:58:59,520 --> 01:59:06,560
» I think it's it's more impressive the I
say this

1495
01:59:04,159 --> 01:59:12,480
again I'm not used to such decorum with
something that's so uh with a lot of

1496
01:59:09,199 --> 01:59:17,040
passions uh and I'm constantly impressed
by the city and their ability to uh be

1497
01:59:14,719 --> 01:59:20,400
able to communicate without yelling not
quite the situation in the state that I

1498
01:59:18,800 --> 01:59:22,800
just moved from. So I really appreciate
that about here.

1499
01:59:21,679 --> 01:59:26,800
» So do I.
>> Yeah, [laughter] absolutely.

1500
01:59:25,280 --> 01:59:30,960
Abby.
>> Um, so I know we all talk about this

1501
01:59:28,880 --> 01:59:35,679
boom that we're going through. Just for
reference, I think it's 10 different

1502
01:59:33,280 --> 01:59:38,560
land development plats that are being
processed through the city in some

1503
01:59:37,040 --> 01:59:43,679
fashion or another right now. And that
doesn't even include um we have about

1504
01:59:41,119 --> 01:59:49,119
half dozen eight just site plan reviews.
So commercial redevelopment, reuse of

1505
01:59:45,840 --> 01:59:53,119
existing sites. Um, and that's just
going through those planning stages, not

1506
01:59:51,119 --> 01:59:56,080
what has actually been already approved
by you, but are meeting the conditions

1507
01:59:54,800 --> 02:00:01,040
of approval, and we're working through
legal agreements. So, we are right now,

1508
01:59:58,800 --> 02:00:05,199
I would say, at the best I can kind of
tell in terms of planning of at least

1509
02:00:03,119 --> 02:00:08,560
where the city was kind of just post
recession, we maybe haven't seen

1510
02:00:06,719 --> 02:00:15,199
construction that we're going to gear up
for now since at least 2012 or even

1511
02:00:12,400 --> 02:00:20,159
pre-recession. So, um, just for
reference, there's a lot going on. Part

1512
02:00:18,159 --> 02:00:23,840
of the reason Stephen hasn't gotten to
the zoning code, and I haven't gotten

1513
02:00:21,760 --> 02:00:27,920
after him. So, I do do want to defend
him of that. He did mention that long

1514
02:00:26,480 --> 02:00:35,760
range planning kind of project, the
downtown plan called for a long lakeside

1515
02:00:32,880 --> 02:00:40,159
park shoreline study that would look to
stabilize the shoreline. As part of that

1516
02:00:38,560 --> 02:00:44,960
conversation was whether or not the boat
launch should be moved. Um several years

1517
02:00:43,040 --> 02:00:48,639
ago the council said, "Yeah, that boat
launch should be moved." New parks

1518
02:00:47,119 --> 02:00:52,159
commission said, "You know what? We we
really would like to vet this out with

1519
02:00:50,000 --> 02:00:56,560
the public." So that is the big intent
to really kind of see should this launch

1520
02:00:54,639 --> 02:00:59,760
be moved. Should we put an amphitheater
or amphitheater? Is that what we calling

1521
02:00:58,159 --> 02:01:03,280
it? Not amphitheater.
>> I think it's amphitheater.

1522
02:01:01,760 --> 02:01:06,560
» But it's not isn't
>> stand.

1523
02:01:05,360 --> 02:01:10,400
Who knows what it's going to look like
quite yet? But a larger performance

1524
02:01:08,239 --> 02:01:14,000
stage. But the biggest reason that the
city is trying to do this is because our

1525
02:01:11,840 --> 02:01:18,159
shoreline needs to be stabilized and we
need to finalize the plan for what that

1526
02:01:16,000 --> 02:01:22,080
shoreline is going to look like. And so
um do encourage you to go out there or

1527
02:01:20,480 --> 02:01:26,239
tell your friends. There are some online
surveys out right now. If you're a

1528
02:01:24,560 --> 02:01:30,800
launch user, there's a special survey
and then there's another one of just

1529
02:01:27,679 --> 02:01:36,000
users. So um other long range planning
things, the city started to work with

1530
02:01:32,880 --> 02:01:42,159
Washington County on a county road 50
corridor study. So this is the corner of

1531
02:01:39,199 --> 02:01:49,760
county um highway 61 where kind of the
airport meets and crosses over um into

1532
02:01:46,800 --> 02:01:52,719
Susan's world [laughter] or in you but
where a lot of our development is

1533
02:01:51,199 --> 02:01:58,159
happening. So that corridor study is
going to look all the way from county

1534
02:01:54,880 --> 02:02:02,480
road 60 or state highway 61 all the way
to Manning Avenue. So city staff right

1535
02:02:00,159 --> 02:02:07,199
now is working with a project management
team in the county on what that corridor

1536
02:02:05,119 --> 02:02:10,639
is going to look like and Um, so you
might see some public engagement

1537
02:02:08,480 --> 02:02:17,520
opportunities coming out probably closer
to fall on that one. Um, additionally,

1538
02:02:15,040 --> 02:02:23,760
city's been working with the cities of
Hugo, Columbus, Lino Lakes, and the EDAs

1539
02:02:21,040 --> 02:02:28,880
of both Washington and Anoka County on a
corridor study of Elmrest Avenue. That's

1540
02:02:26,080 --> 02:02:32,239
our western boundary gravel road right
now. But we've got a little bit of

1541
02:02:30,560 --> 02:02:37,360
asphelt at the top and a little bit of
asphalt in line of lakes and it and

1542
02:02:34,639 --> 02:02:41,520
developments moving towards it. And so
really trying to look at what that

1543
02:02:38,639 --> 02:02:46,159
corridor looks like in the long run. Um
lots of just in general long range

1544
02:02:43,920 --> 02:02:50,480
planning going because we want to stay
in front of some of that development

1545
02:02:48,080 --> 02:02:54,960
stuff. Next week the parks commission I
believe will look at an updated will

1546
02:02:52,719 --> 02:02:59,679
consider recommendation of approval on
an updated parks plan master parks

1547
02:02:57,520 --> 02:03:03,920
trails open space plan. So, that's out
there for folks to take a look at. Got

1548
02:03:02,320 --> 02:03:06,719
some crinkles over there. Susan, any
questions?

1549
02:03:04,400 --> 02:03:13,280
» I I need to take a look.
>> Um, and then, uh, I know, uh, that there

1550
02:03:10,560 --> 02:03:18,000
was conversation here about the desire
for a joint workshop with the city

1551
02:03:15,360 --> 02:03:24,880
council. staff has been in discussions
with uh interim administrator Jolene um

1552
02:03:21,440 --> 02:03:30,639
with with Stephen um taking a look at
also just our timeline for um

1553
02:03:28,400 --> 02:03:36,159
comprehensive plan update. I think we'll
be aiming for that workshop in the fall

1554
02:03:33,520 --> 02:03:40,800
to be addressing some precursors to
engagement of uh for comprehensive plan.

1555
02:03:38,960 --> 02:03:45,760
Also talking about some of the
opportunities that the city has in terms

1556
02:03:43,119 --> 02:03:52,159
of how we can better partner with the
Met Council. Um so if there's other

1557
02:03:49,520 --> 02:03:55,520
things you think about along the way
that you want to have conversations

1558
02:03:53,520 --> 02:03:59,360
about uh feel free to reach out to
Stephen and I. are happy to see what we

1559
02:03:57,440 --> 02:04:04,080
can try to maximize that to make sure
that we're working in coordination

1560
02:04:01,280 --> 02:04:07,679
planning commission and city council.
I know that was a lot probably not a lot

1561
02:04:06,159 --> 02:04:10,960
you get but you don't see me as much
anymore. I want to fill you with a lot

1562
02:04:09,520 --> 02:04:14,800
of things that are happening and why you
don't see me as much anymore.

1563
02:04:12,800 --> 02:04:17,679
» We do thank you for gracing us with your
presence this evening.

1564
02:04:15,840 --> 02:04:20,639
» I appreciate it.
>> Other questions for

1565
02:04:19,040 --> 02:04:24,239
» It's hard to not It's hard to keep my
mouth shut. I'm not I try really hard to

1566
02:04:22,960 --> 02:04:27,040
just let you guys keep doing what you're
doing. So, you're all doing great and I

1567
02:04:25,840 --> 02:04:30,320
appreciate you.
>> One quick question. You said we haven't

1568
02:04:28,719 --> 02:04:33,360
seen building numbers like this since
2012. How many roofs are we talking

1569
02:04:32,080 --> 02:04:37,679
about? How many individual homes?
>> Well, right now the actual permitting is

1570
02:04:35,040 --> 02:04:43,199
still pretty low. Um the number of homes
that are getting, you know, potentially

1571
02:04:39,920 --> 02:04:47,679
platted. I would say in the next um 3 to
5 years, we're going to see probably

1572
02:04:44,880 --> 02:04:54,560
numbers close to 150 homes per year. So,
it might be another 500 homes in the

1573
02:04:50,400 --> 02:05:01,360
next three years is really feasible. Um,
>> that's less than what we've already

1574
02:04:56,800 --> 02:05:05,440
platted, we've already approved.
>> So, you think it's going to take like

1575
02:05:03,920 --> 02:05:08,800
probably 10 years to build out what
we've already

1576
02:05:06,159 --> 02:05:13,440
» I don't think it'll uh what I don't we
haven't we haven't platted 500 homes.

1577
02:05:11,840 --> 02:05:15,520
» You're talking about actually completing
the houses?

1578
02:05:13,920 --> 02:05:21,280
» Yeah, I'm talking about completing the
homes. Probably 150 per year over the

1579
02:05:18,320 --> 02:05:29,360
next three years. So, that 500 um the
plat. So, um We may have planned planned

1580
02:05:25,920 --> 02:05:33,360
unit development uh for more than 500
when you look at Hidden Creek and you

1581
02:05:31,360 --> 02:05:38,000
look at Chestnut Creek, but what I'm
talking about is the actual then phasing

1582
02:05:35,280 --> 02:05:44,080
of the final plat. So a good example is
Hidden Creek fourth has come in, it's

1583
02:05:39,679 --> 02:05:49,199
only 18 homes. Um Chestnut Creek,
Havenwood,

1584
02:05:46,159 --> 02:05:50,880
Havenwood, Havenwood, even though it's
120

1585
02:05:50,000 --> 02:05:54,320
» 160.
>> Thank you. um their first phase is only

1586
02:05:53,360 --> 02:05:57,760
coming in with
>> 61.

1587
02:05:55,760 --> 02:06:03,920
» So, you know, that's where and then
those 61, you know, between the 18 at

1588
02:06:00,080 --> 02:06:09,760
Hidden Creek and 61 at Havenwood
of those going to be built in 27

1589
02:06:06,560 --> 02:06:15,520
probably might not be all. I don't know
that for sure, but I'm trying to stay

1590
02:06:12,960 --> 02:06:20,560
still mildly conservatively because I
think anything more than about 150, the

1591
02:06:18,080 --> 02:06:25,199
system, the city's systems are going to
be taxed. And not just our emergency

1592
02:06:23,360 --> 02:06:30,159
response, but I talk about our building
permitting abilities, our inspections,

1593
02:06:28,320 --> 02:06:32,800
uh, engineering, you know, all of those
things.

1594
02:06:30,719 --> 02:06:37,199
» I assume we we haven't talked about we
don't talk about schools in this

1595
02:06:34,560 --> 02:06:40,239
commission. We haven't ever, but I
assume that's a concern when you're

1596
02:06:38,480 --> 02:06:44,159
putting in that many new roofs.
>> We got plenty of room in the schools.

1597
02:06:42,159 --> 02:06:46,880
» Oh, do we? I don't honestly know that.
So, that's good to hear.

1598
02:06:45,119 --> 02:06:49,440
» We closed one building, we tore down
another one.

1599
02:06:47,440 --> 02:06:52,560
» Okay. Well, that's news to me.
>> I mean, we haven't had any conversations

1600
02:06:50,960 --> 02:06:56,719
with the district lately, but I do think
that there is room within the system as

1601
02:06:54,880 --> 02:07:04,079
it sits right now. As a reminder though,
our household size is going down and the

1602
02:07:01,360 --> 02:07:07,920
average age isn't getting younger. And
so that it does reflect that even though

1603
02:07:06,239 --> 02:07:14,320
we are adding rooftops, we might not
always be adding school age children.

1604
02:07:12,000 --> 02:07:19,119
All great questions though.
>> Anything else for Abby?

1605
02:07:17,360 --> 02:07:22,639
» Okay, Jesse?
>> Nothing.

1606
02:07:20,719 --> 02:07:25,760
» Yeah, the wall there. What's going on?
>> No, I just I just noticed it when I

1607
02:07:24,880 --> 02:07:29,199
walked in tonight.
>> It's on somebody's to-do list here.

1608
02:07:27,520 --> 02:07:31,840
» We'll make sure to we'll take a look at
it.

1609
02:07:29,520 --> 02:07:35,599
» Maybe snazz it up for the council
meeting. We're down here.

1610
02:07:34,480 --> 02:07:38,480
» I get a push.
>> You get a push pin up there or

1611
02:07:37,199 --> 02:07:41,280
something.
>> Push pin.

1612
02:07:39,280 --> 02:07:46,400
» I think there may have been discussion
about actually resurfacing them. You can

1613
02:07:44,000 --> 02:07:51,360
see some areas where they're the panels
look like they're either have a relief

1614
02:07:49,199 --> 02:07:55,760
or a little
>> supposed to be even is my understanding.

1615
02:07:53,840 --> 02:07:58,800
» I can get you an update on that at your
next meeting.

1616
02:07:56,480 --> 02:08:03,840
» Can you make a note of that?
>> Drives me nuts, but I don't think

1617
02:08:00,400 --> 02:08:08,320
they're meant to be even.
And I'm

1618
02:08:06,159 --> 02:08:11,280
» Well, no, but like the one in between
the two with the vents up there, there's

1619
02:08:09,840 --> 02:08:15,440
a there's a wave where you can
definitely see it's been peeling apart

1620
02:08:13,280 --> 02:08:18,800
some. So,
>> all right. Now that we can treat the

1621
02:08:16,880 --> 02:08:21,040
walls, uh Andy, anything?
>> Nothing. Thank you,

1622
02:08:20,400 --> 02:08:22,639
» Tim.
>> I'm good.

1623
02:08:22,159 --> 02:08:26,000
» Nothing.
>> Susan,

1624
02:08:23,440 --> 02:08:31,440
» the farmers market has been so much fun
and we've got some really great vendors.

1625
02:08:28,159 --> 02:08:39,040
There's a mix of um veggie folks and
honey and syrup. And um we're trying to

1626
02:08:34,400 --> 02:08:44,960
bring in some some meat vendors. Um uh
baked goods, both gluten-free and and

1627
02:08:41,840 --> 02:08:50,040
and real. Um there's there's a lady
there that's got some um

1628
02:08:47,040 --> 02:08:50,040
» kombucha.

1629
02:08:50,960 --> 02:08:58,719
It's pretty cool. And it's right here.
And the beauty of it is

1630
02:08:55,280 --> 02:09:03,280
you're close. You're not to carry 12
pounds of veggies for 12 blocks

1631
02:09:01,280 --> 02:09:09,199
» and it is growing each week.
>> Staff is strategically trying to add

1632
02:09:05,920 --> 02:09:13,760
vendors that are not not to excessively
compete with one another, but continues

1633
02:09:11,440 --> 02:09:16,400
to add new vendors each week. So,
>> Saturday 8 to noon.

1634
02:09:15,280 --> 02:09:21,239
» Saturday 8 to noon.
>> Are you guys getting commission on this

1635
02:09:17,840 --> 02:09:21,239
or something? [laughter]

1636
02:09:21,280 --> 02:09:28,639
» The staffing of it, the the Lions
provided the funding and the Rotary is

1637
02:09:26,000 --> 02:09:28,639
providing the

1638
02:09:29,280 --> 02:09:34,719
It's just it's brand new. I think we've
only been doing it two weeks. So, trying

1639
02:09:32,560 --> 02:09:39,599
to get some marketing in three weeks
marketing out.

1640
02:09:36,800 --> 02:09:41,040
» I only have one comment. Um I was at the
last planning.

1641
02:09:40,560 --> 02:09:46,880
» You were?
>> I was going to make that comment.

1642
02:09:42,560 --> 02:09:53,040
» Um but that was on June 10th and a meet
a agenda tonight said it was on the 24th

1643
02:09:50,800 --> 02:09:57,840
of June and we cancelled that meeting,
but it didn't occur to me that. So, I

1644
02:09:55,840 --> 02:10:00,800
was here. So, I apologize for not
knowing I was at the last meeting.

1645
02:09:59,440 --> 02:10:04,239
» Is there somebody you want me to beat
for that?

1646
02:10:01,360 --> 02:10:07,760
» No, we're good. Interesting's happened.
>> With that, the chair is looking for a

1647
02:10:06,000 --> 02:10:10,480
motion to adjourn.
>> So moved.

1648
02:10:08,560 --> 02:10:13,040
» I got a motion. I got a second.
>> Second.

1649
02:10:11,199 --> 02:10:16,239
» Got a motion, a second. Non-debatable
motion. All those in favor signify by

1650
02:10:14,960 --> 02:10:24,719
saying I. I.
>> Opposed. Abstensions. Motion carries.

1651
02:10:20,880 --> 02:10:26,739
Thank you all. Enjoy the summer.
>> [music]