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Okay, I'm going to call this work session to order. Actown clerk, can we get a roll call, please? Sure. Mayor Fadel. Present. Vice mayor Earl. Present. Councilmember Cala Villanacca. Here. Councilmember Watts. Present. Councilmember Larabee. Councilmember McMahon. Councilmember Schillacorn. We have a quorum. Thank you. Rachel. Mayor, thank you. Before we begin, I want to briefly frame today's discussion and what we hope to accomplish.

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The question of how we address our long-term street needs is complicated and there's not

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necessarily agreement among the council or even among our community about what next steps

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should be.

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That's exactly why this work session is important.

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Today, staff will provide the council with background and context to help establish a common

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foundation for the discussion.

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Paul is going to be leading us through but we'll have David Janover as well sharing some details.

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It'll include a look at the town's history with street funding and previous bond efforts,

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the condition and needs of our roadway system, what we have heard from residents and some of the considerations and concerns that have been raised as we evaluate our options moving forward.

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The purpose of today is not to presume a particular outcome or funding solution.

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I want to be clear about that.

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It's to make sure that the council has the information needed to have an informed policy discussion.

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At the conclusion of the presentation and discussion staff will need clear majority direction for the council regarding whether and how you would like us to proceed.

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That direction will help us determine what additional analysis, funding scenarios, public engagement, or other works should come back to the council for consideration.

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Our goal today is to provide the facts, understand the council's priorities, and their concerns, and leave with enough direction to responsibly move the conversation forward.

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So with that, I'm going to turn it over to Paul. He'll take it away.

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All right. Mayor Vice Mayor and Council, thank you for another opportunity. Good afternoon.

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Like Rachel mentioned, we're going to have a comprehensive discussion today. First, we're

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going to talk about some historical information about road funding as well as some town survey

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results. And then I'll turn it over to public works to talk about current road conditions.

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So the town works with flash vote to conduct surveys of town residents. And we did conduct

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a road survey back in March, 452 respondents out of 809 enrolled at the time, and Flash

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vote indicates that the margin of error is plus or minus 5%.

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So they were asked if a road bond would speed up road repairs, would you support it or not

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support it in the next one to two years?

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So you can see the results on the screen, about 68% somewhat support or strongly support

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if you add those bottom two up, 31% and the 37%.

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There were, those that were against it, 9% strongly against, 9% somewhat against, and 10% neutral.

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And this survey was sent out to the full mayor and council, it's also out there for public consumption.

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So for this question, you could choose all that apply, but

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you'll see that 63% said they would want to see a clear explanation of how road projects would be prioritized.

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32% also said that they would want to see a specific road repair list.

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And 19% said they think road repairs are the highest priority for the town at the current moment.

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There's also several other options so you can kind of read it I'll leave on the screen for just a moment.

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Yes, of course.

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Thank you.

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If I went through these questions, was there anything specific as to how people wanted to see exactly how it was going to be spent, not necessarily just on what roads would be repaired but

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But exactly how every dime ever it was going to be spent, because I know in the past that's been an issue with other bonds and why people said no, because they didn't have clarity on that.

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Yeah, so mayor councilwoman, these questions we drafted just to give people options so that kind of that second one, I'd want it to be tied to a specific road repair list was trying to get to that point, do you want us to put together a list if we try to go out with the bond initiative.

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There were also options for other, you see 10% chose other, and a lot of respondents put in comments, 160 or so, put in specific comments on the things they'd like to see.

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Thank you, and also I probably missed it, but what was the sampling?

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I mean, was it just in general for sending out to our residents, or how did you pick the sampling?

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It was all of the people signed up for our town-wide surveys, so we don't release the questions ahead of time.

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We just kind of send it out, and so we've done this a few times.

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This is just one of the surveys that we sent out.

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So at the time, they're about 809 signed up and 450 or so responded.

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It's the same people for every survey you send out?

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Everyone signed up for the flash vote that we contract with.

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Yeah, so every type of survey we send out, whoever signed up will get the link to that survey and have the opportunity to respond.

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Okay, so and how often do you advertise this that people could sign up?

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Well, Mike Pelham's not here unfortunately and Rachel might be able to chime in, but I know that he does put that out there.

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He's done several public postings about it being available for residents.

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I think it's part of his newsletters that he puts out as well.

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So definitely trying to engage with the residents and trying to get more people signed up, okay. Thank you

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Got it okay and Paul just to clarify. I don't know. I probably see a half a dozen from pelton

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Where he's announced it and I've signed up and answered the flash as well

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So it could be skewed because I answered okay, which one did you?

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Okay, how much to spend

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And if you recall, I think it was the last time we met about this topic.

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We talked about just some examples of $11 or $12, $22 million to repair some of our bigger

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roads in town.

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So we gave a couple other options.

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We did $0, $5 million, $11 million, $22 million, or $30 million.

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And as you can see, the results were pretty mixed.

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But the strongest support was the largest bond, the $30 million bond, with 21% of respondents

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choosing that.

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Second place was $11 million.

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And then there were people 11% of the respondents said that we don't need extra money for road repairs right now.

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They wouldn't be interested in a road bond at any price.

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Also at the bottom, just to point out, 14% responded not sure, maybe they weren't familiar with the topic.

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8% chose other, which I'm not sure where that would be on the spectrum of these amounts.

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Again, 160 or so wrote in some comments, some with constructive feedback, some with positive comments on the things that the town has been doing.

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So you're going to get that disparate range in comments with any survey and we do have that within the survey results as well.

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The main takeaway of you want to tell you, majority do support a bond according to the result, 68% at least somewhat supported bond or strongly supported bond within the survey.

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Okay, for the most part the answers were generally consistent across demographics because we

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do have that information too, but it was interesting to see that men most strongly supported

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the bond and the higher dollar amounts as well in the survey results.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Who gets to go first?

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How many residents do we have in this town that are of age that could answer such questions?

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Yeah, of course.

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Well, this is good, you're getting feedback, and as Councilwoman McMahon said, it's pretty

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much the same people, but we have hundreds of other thousands of other people that this

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will affect that didn't get to answer the question.

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So, it's good to get an idea, but I think we talked about that at the league when we do polling,

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it's such a small percentage of the actual people

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that it's going to affect,

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but just keeping that in mind.

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Absolutely.

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I think to your point has taken,

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ideally, this is giving you sort of a touch point,

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it is giving you a sense of that feedback.

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Now, granted, while it is statistically valid

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in terms of our population versus the input that we have,

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it is one touch point, right?

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It is only one element of the consideration and the discussion.

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I have the same concerns as I, you know, because of the 24,000 residents.

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Et cetera, and we're sampling less than a thousand. It seems like I have a big concern with that. However, it's good to have this information, because it is representative. But if the council moves toward doing a bond, et cetera, is there going to be, I'm sure you guys are going to have public community meetings about it, a larger reach for everybody so that we can test the waters and see at that time exactly, you know,

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You know, what the onslaught's going to be to, you know, to have it or not have it, et cetera, correct?

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So, go ahead, Mayor.

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I was going to say, I think the council can't decide.

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We would decide whether we want to give the voice to the residents to decide for this.

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So, they will have their voice.

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Ultimately.

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Correct.

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Yeah, if the council gives direction to move forward with this.

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Yes, there will definitely be public outreach.

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which, again, the survey was just one tool to sort of get a temperature check.

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It's not the end all be all.

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And yes, it would take a heavy lift from whether it's social communications, whether it's

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in-person meetings, whether, you know, there's not a one-stop shop for us here, we'll have

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to do multiple efforts.

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Yes.

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All right.

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Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

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Oh, yes.

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Yeah.

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Just, I wasn't going to chime in on this, but since it's gotten such discussion, I'll give

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of my two cents.

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I was a political science major in college

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and I studied polling extensively.

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And the 5% margin of error, I don't think you can make a

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5% margin of error claim based on a flashful that had

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457 people.

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This is a very flawed poll.

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and I can't, in good conscience, take anything from it.

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It's not useful information to me, and I think my colleagues have the same thing.

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And so, as we go forward, you know, that was just with those 457 people

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had to say on one day, and I'm not sure the relevance of this body going forward

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and using that as anything other than anecdotal evidence.

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Yeah. Understood. Thank you. So maybe the last question.

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Yes, maybe not. I think it's important to understand that regardless of if the council moves this forward, it's going to go to an election, one, one cycle, either a special election or the general election, either or, but the public is going to have the last word.

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All we're doing is kind of condensing it to make it.

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It's very powerful for them to look at it and understand.

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So today, while it may not be relatively important to look at the numbers, the direction

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where we get there will be decided by the public.

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Yes.

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Just one caveat council member with a general obligation bond, which we've been discussing,

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that would go to the voters.

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If the council decided to switch directions and go down a pledge revenue obligation bond,

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that would not go to the voters.

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So that's just the distinction there.

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Right, but today we're talking about the general obligation bond and we're not talking about an alternate, much like home rule or anything else that we could do that wouldn't need to go before the voters, but in this particular case, we're talking solely on general obligation.

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So Councilor, today we're talking more about the current road conditions and funding needs, but yes, the general obligation bond option was the primary one discussed at the previous discussion and still would be the leading recommendation for the council.

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Yes.

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All right. Well, that got all like more questions than I expected. Thanks, Mike. Thanks, Mike Pelton, for not being here today.

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So this is kind of a refresher based on our ongoing revenues for fiscal year 27.

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We projected about 4.5 million of revenues. That's a little bit less than the prior year.

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We actually brought in close to five million or around $5 million last year.

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And so from a revenue perspective, we bring in her revenues. That's our biggest revenue source.

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of course at $1.8 million, vehicle license taxes at $1.3 million, local sales taxes at $1.3 million,

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and about $100 to $200,000 of other revenues in this fund.

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So as we talked about from the expenditure side, when spending, we have about $2.2 million in the budget,

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as currently constructed for other streets needs, which includes things we've talked about,

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such as staffing, landscaping, rights away, maintenance, curb repairs, things like that.

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So all the other kind of things that we need to do as a town, that's budgeted there in that bucket, that's how I try to illustrate it.

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But based on our ongoing revenues, we only have about $2.3, $2.4 million a year to spend on road work.

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But we've been able to budget more than that because we've had available fund balances every year to do that.

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And a lot of that has to do with council decisions to transfer money into the streets fund from general fund access reserves and things like that.

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So for fiscal year 27, we did budget $6 million for road repairers, and I believe it was the last meeting where the council approved to proceed on that plan for fiscal year 27.

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Does that $6 million not include the 2.2 that goes to other things?

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No. So it's a full 6.7 million gesture roads.

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Yes, so I want to clarify just for the public because if they watch Jeff's presentation, the way him and I explain are a little bit different.

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What he said was exactly accurate, right?

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6.4 or 6.3 million on roads.

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He's just combining some of those other little things

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from that 2.2 million to go into that 6 million.

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So 6 million is just for road repair.

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You add another three to 400,000 for things like striping,

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curb repairs and concrete stuff.

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So combined really, it's more like,

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what he says is actually probably more accurate

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than what I'm saying.

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It's like 6.3 to 6.4 million on the budget.

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And so combined, it's like 8.2 million dollars in the budget

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for streets for pair needs for this fiscal year.

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So we wanted to go in the history banks and archives and

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give you an idea of how we used to pay for roads.

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So in the 1970s prior to incorporation as a town, we had four special road districts here.

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And they were formed by the county and voters authorized up to $24 million road bonds.

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And $6 million bonds were actually issued to construct roads in the town pre-incorporation.

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upon incorporation the town absorbed those districts and took on those costs so the town was

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responsible for the road maintenance and repairs. And then as a town we did try to go out for a

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geobahn in 1991 and that was approved so we'll talk about that in a little bit. 2011 we did try again

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and that was not approved by the voters and then 2013 we did have another successful bond initiative

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of a geobahn for a Suwara boulevard.

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So road districts, this question comes up sometimes about road districts.

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They're not very easy or viable today.

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So municipal improvement districts, they're possible for smaller roads like Palomino

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Boulevard, for example.

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If a majority of the land owners that lived on Palomino Boulevard decided they wanted to

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create a road district and they signed a petition to form a district they could.

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It's a special taxing district, where they would pay the secondary property taxes to pay off the debt.

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So that is the possibility for some of these projects.

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But county improvement districts are not really viable because they're really only for

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unincorporated areas of the county.

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And it's controlled by the board of supervisors and the town would have no control over those districts.

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Does anybody have any questions about those?

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So, the special road districts in 1973, remember the voters authorized up to $24 million, but they only issued $6 million.

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That's a good example of what we talked about before.

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If the council did decide to move forward and we brought a voter authorization to the ballot, where we said, hey, we would like authorization to do up to $22 million of bonds.

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That doesn't mean we have to go do $22 million bond.

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We could do an $11 million bond issuance or $10 million, whatever is needed at that time.

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And then proceed and wait until it's needed again.

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But we could use that authorization to go out again and do another bond issuance as the need

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arises.

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00:23:43,190 --> 00:23:44,470
That's kind of a good example of that.

210
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When you do that then does the property bill portion that the residents paid, is that fluctuate

211
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up and down then?

212
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It's not a set rate for so many years.

213
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It's based on when you take the money.

214
00:23:58,270 --> 00:24:02,630
Yeah, Mayor Councilwoman, it's when you issue the debt, let's say it's $11 million.

215
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Every year based on the repayment schedule, let's say it's a ten year repayment schedule.

216
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We would be levying a secondary property tax on the residents to pay off that debt.

217
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So it's just like your mortgage.

218
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You take out $11 million, let's say you owe $1 million a year.

219
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You levy attacks on the residents to collect that money and then you pay it off every year.

220
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If we decided to do another bond on top of it and that bond first bond was not paid off yet, it would overlap.

221
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So you'd be levying an amount to pay off both of the bonds and then the secondary property tax

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levy would go up to pay off the bonds.

223
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What you're saying here, like in 73 to 74, you only use 6 million of the 24 authorized?

224
00:24:49,950 --> 00:24:54,050
Yes, that's what they did as the special road districts at the time.

225
00:24:54,670 --> 00:24:57,470
That wasn't the town yet, sorry, I sort of spelled that out.

226
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So that was pre-incorporation.

227
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Then the town became incorporated in 1989.

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And then 1991, we tried for our first road bond initiative where the voters did approve it.

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And I'll show you the wording from that, the bond initiative in a little bit.

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But they approved $3.5 million and we issued $3.5 million of bonds.

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2011, we asked for $29.6 million as a town.

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And the voters did not approve that and I'll show that example in a little bit as well.

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And then 2013, our third and most recent and our last bond initiative that went to the voters as far as I'm aware.

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where I was approved for $8.2 million for the reconstruction or improvement of Swarrel Boulevard.

235
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And we actually came in under budget on that one, we issued about $7.6 million of bonds.

236
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And that's the last bond that we did as a town.

237
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Yes, of course.

238
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So, when you were billing the, when the residents were paying on their property tax for the one from 2013.

239
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did they pay less because you didn't use the whole 800 or 8.2 million because you have a set rate that you're billing that's everybody's charged or added to their property tax.

240
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So what happens when you don't issue the full amount?

241
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So, I'll give a little bit of a long-winded answer, so forgive me.

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If the council approved us to go to the voters, and then the voters timed in, they said yes

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or no, if they did say yes, then we would actually go to the market and work with our municipal

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advisor and find the best terms for the town.

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And we'd bring whatever, basically it's like almost a procurement process, find the best

246
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either it's a direct placement or a bidding process to find the best terms for the town.

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we'd bring it back to the town council.

248
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So in this case, the voters said yes,

249
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8.2 million dollars to do swirl, go ahead, do that.

250
00:26:53,190 --> 00:26:55,490
We went out and found the best terms for a bond

251
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and we brought it back to the town council

252
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at that 7.6 million dollars.

253
00:26:59,330 --> 00:27:01,030
So the 7.6 million is the key point

254
00:27:01,030 --> 00:27:03,810
because that's the actual debt that we took on.

255
00:27:04,350 --> 00:27:09,370
And then we, actually, you'll see in the bond initiative,

256
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I think it was for up to 15 years,

257
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but we did for five years at the time

258
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because I think the idea was just to pay it off quickly.

259
00:27:16,650 --> 00:27:18,990
It's pretty unusual when it comes to bonds,

260
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but that's what we did as a town.

261
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So we paid off in five years by 2020.

262
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And Paul, these were taxable bonds

263
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where they can they be crafted as tax-free

264
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but from the state and or the Fed?

265
00:27:34,170 --> 00:27:36,790
Mayor council member, most of these bonds

266
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were discussing are typically tax exempt

267
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and that's why they can be attractive to bond holders.

268
00:27:42,310 --> 00:27:44,870
is that state tax exempt or federal and state?

269
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Federal, I believe in state, but federal, yes.

270
00:27:48,190 --> 00:27:54,750
And if you had $22 million and you had certain tranches,

271
00:27:54,870 --> 00:27:58,350
certain ladders, $5 million for the next four and a half years or so,

272
00:27:58,990 --> 00:28:03,910
what would that do to the effective interest rate over the life of that obligation?

273
00:28:04,370 --> 00:28:07,850
Would it reduce it or it doesn't increase it, but I think it does reduce it somewhat.

274
00:28:07,850 --> 00:28:11,860
But could you clarify your question?

275
00:28:12,180 --> 00:28:12,320
Nope.

276
00:28:14,020 --> 00:28:14,820
I think so.

277
00:28:15,180 --> 00:28:18,320
I mean, if I have 5 million this year and 5 million next year,

278
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I'm paying down already, so I'm reducing the overall debt.

279
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,660
So while initially your presentation assumes

280
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that 5% is for the total amount from day one through the end.

281
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But if you only have certain tranches of money

282
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that you would have at certain defined periods of time,

283
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,320
does that, what does that do to the interest rate?

284
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:40,260
And I believe that it reduces the effective interest rate over the duration.

285
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,740
So Mayor and Councilmember, when you go, so

286
00:28:45,740 --> 00:28:50,200
I was describing earlier, when you go out to kind of like a bidding process to get the best terms for the town.

287
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:55,500
You can look for particular terms like that, like an early repayment option that could reduce.

288
00:28:55,640 --> 00:29:01,040
But typically, geo bonds that we're talking about today, typically they do have a 10 year non-callable period.

289
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And I believe you can make additional payments to that principle with town funds, but you kind of have to

290
00:29:07,420 --> 00:29:13,000
Feel the market out and see what the market conditions are to look for those terms if that's what the council wants to do

291
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,960
Well, I understand if it's non-collable, but if it's callable and we say we might pay them off earlier

292
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,040
Then what does that do to the effective interest rate?

293
00:29:20,100 --> 00:29:27,280
And maybe that's a question that if we move forward we can look at and say what's the effect of callable bonds versus non-collable?

294
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:34,840
Yes, exactly. Council member, we can work with our municipal advisor to create certain scenarios for some of those options that you might be interested in.

295
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:35,240
All

296
00:29:38,990 --> 00:29:45,990
right. Town bond initiative one. So as a town, this is the first time we try to do a road bond.

297
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This initiative, you can see the worry. Now it is kind of hard to see. I'm sorry. That's how I kind of had to do it to show it on the screen.

298
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But it was for $3.5 million to provide funds for the purpose of improvement, construction, reconstruction, maintenance of town streets.

299
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Highways. And you'll see at the bottom that it passed pretty easily 882 votes for with 332 votes against. So this one, this one was interesting because it was a longer time period. We paid it off 15 or 20 years for a $3.5 million bond. So that was kind of interesting to see that town bond initiative to you may have heard of this one. We talked about a little bit. We asked the voters to approve our authorized 29.6 million votes.

300
00:30:31,260 --> 00:30:36,180
dollars of bonds for road reconstruction, you'll see that the wording is a little broader

301
00:30:36,180 --> 00:30:41,140
to provide funds to design, improve, construct, reconstruct and rehabilitate the streets, avenues,

302
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:50,220
alleys, and highways. So at the time, this did not get approved. As you can see, 2,980 votes for

303
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with 3,741 votes against. So after that, we came back to the table. We brought back another

304
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:05,920
bond initiative in 2013 asking for authorization to sell bonds of up to $8.2 million and you'll

305
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:11,180
kind of see in the wording there it's specific to provide funds to design and contract and

306
00:31:11,180 --> 00:31:16,200
rehabilitate Swarrel Boulevard. So it was a specific bond for specific purpose at a lower

307
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:21,760
dollar amount. So those are just some key takeaways of that. It easily passed. The voters approved it

308
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:28,000
4,551 votes for, with 2,226 votes against at the time.

309
00:31:31,230 --> 00:31:46,930
And again, what I thought was interesting is it does authorize us a staff to issue a bond that shall not exceed 15 years from the day of their issuance, but what we brought forth to the Council was a five year repayment term rather than the 15 year repayment term.

310
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So

311
00:31:50,940 --> 00:31:52,420
where does that land us today?

312
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:58,160
Option one, we can continue what we've been doing using our operating budget and finding

313
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,600
ways to transfer mine streets fund to do more road work.

314
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:06,680
So we have been doing that already, continue that, or option two, consider issuing a bond,

315
00:32:07,100 --> 00:32:11,620
whether it's a pledge revenue obligation where we restrict our current and future revenues

316
00:32:11,620 --> 00:32:16,260
to pay it off, or a general obligation bond, which would love you a secondary property

317
00:32:16,260 --> 00:32:17,300
tax to pay off the debt.

318
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,400
So with that, I'm going to turn over to Public Works unless you have any questions for me.

319
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:25,960
I do have a comment.

320
00:32:26,380 --> 00:32:26,460
Sure.

321
00:32:27,140 --> 00:32:36,180
So if we were successful in getting a bond approved by the voters, we still do our regular

322
00:32:36,180 --> 00:32:39,320
other maintenance as well as we've always done.

323
00:32:39,660 --> 00:32:44,260
This would be in addition to, so it's clear for people to understand that we're still going to do

324
00:32:44,260 --> 00:32:47,120
other road work with monies from the town.

325
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:49,180
Yes, that's accurate.

326
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,520
I just want to make sure that that was clear for people.

327
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,840
And not only the other road work, but maintenance too.

328
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,940
Maintaining the existing one has to be a key component of that as well.

329
00:32:59,040 --> 00:32:59,440
Absolutely.

330
00:33:00,500 --> 00:33:02,080
Paul, before you do, I just have one question.

331
00:33:02,220 --> 00:33:03,640
And I don't know that you can through it.

332
00:33:03,700 --> 00:33:04,920
I don't know if that's down here or not.

333
00:33:05,700 --> 00:33:09,460
But based on the years that they've eroded, it looks like they're all on odd years.

334
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,520
So it looks like they were all probably done as a special election,

335
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:17,120
not part of the standard election cycle.

336
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:18,100
Is that accurate?

337
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:18,900
That's my belief.

338
00:33:19,380 --> 00:33:22,140
I'm not 100% sure about the 91 election,

339
00:33:22,500 --> 00:33:25,000
but I believe you're right.

340
00:33:25,500 --> 00:33:25,920
I don't want to.

341
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:27,780
Just checking just as a note.

342
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:29,880
All right.

343
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:32,560
Thank you.

344
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:33,240
Have a question, please.

345
00:33:33,420 --> 00:33:33,560
Yes.

346
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:34,780
Option number two.

347
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:35,480
Yes.

348
00:33:36,060 --> 00:33:37,360
Page revenue obligations.

349
00:33:37,660 --> 00:33:39,020
Can you explain that a little bit later?

350
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:39,940
Yes.

351
00:33:39,940 --> 00:33:41,860
Yes, actually this is kind of an interesting time.

352
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,440
We're bringing forth consideration for the Council next week

353
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,740
to close down the municipal property corporation,

354
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:49,380
dissolve it.

355
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,580
I'm kind of going off my tangent, but somewhat relevant.

356
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,020
That was another financing source that we use

357
00:33:56,020 --> 00:34:00,600
to issue bonds to build town hall on the community center.

358
00:34:00,860 --> 00:34:03,160
And what we did at the time is we pledged our revenue.

359
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:07,200
So we do have a history of pledging revenues to pay off debt.

360
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:12,800
So we pledged certain revenues to pay off the debt for all of the facilities you're seeing around us and

361
00:34:13,340 --> 00:34:16,180
Once they were paid off in around 2018

362
00:34:16,940 --> 00:34:23,880
Then we the council decided to put that tax revenue into the streets fund and that's the point 2% that goes on the streets fund today

363
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:29,960
But yes, the pledge revenue obligation if I went off on a tenant so I might be misremembering a question

364
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,960
But yes, it's based on our existing revenues that we're saying hey

365
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,100
Okay, we're not going to use this revenue for current road work.

366
00:34:37,500 --> 00:34:40,640
We're going to pay off the debt and take out a loan through the bond proceeds.

367
00:34:41,260 --> 00:34:45,080
And we'll be paying off from that revenue that's coming in.

368
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:46,240
So that's always an option.

369
00:34:46,720 --> 00:34:56,640
The reason we did not recommend that as a primary option at the last discussion is because with such a large amount of road work that appears to be needed.

370
00:34:58,140 --> 00:35:01,940
Restricting revenues might not be the most preferable option as a town for us.

371
00:35:01,940 --> 00:35:14,720
Okay, thank you for that clarification because I thought we had discussed it a little bit before and that's why we're one of the reasons why we were looking going this way, you know, to consider the bonds. Thank you.

372
00:35:15,740 --> 00:35:26,360
Paul, do you know what the differences between including the bond on either a special election or on the next general election, what the cost differences.

373
00:35:28,020 --> 00:35:36,660
So mayor council member I know that the town clerk stated at one of our meetings when discussing this that would be around $50,000 to hold a special election.

374
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:49,800
I want to say is there an incremental cost to add another question I'm not sure about if it would go to the general election or not but I know that the special election she stayed it was around 50,000.

375
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:57,860
And the tax-free component of a general obligation bond really gives you, if you had a 5% rate on your bond,

376
00:35:58,860 --> 00:36:06,500
really becomes about a 6.5%, almost a 7% effective rate because of the tax-free component. Is that fair?

377
00:36:07,180 --> 00:36:07,420
Yes.

378
00:36:07,860 --> 00:36:08,440
Thanks.

379
00:36:10,060 --> 00:36:12,300
One more question on the election.

380
00:36:12,300 --> 00:36:21,400
If we were to share that election with another governmental body like the sanitary district or the school district, would we share the cost as well?

381
00:36:22,220 --> 00:36:23,080
Does anybody know?

382
00:36:24,820 --> 00:36:29,480
I believe so, and do you know off top of your head if we share that election?

383
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,760
If it goes to the special election or the general?

384
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:39,700
I do know from that if it goes to a general election, that the cost that we spend, we pray to the county,

385
00:36:40,220 --> 00:36:45,180
is minimal compared to if we actually hold a separate special election, but I believe

386
00:36:45,180 --> 00:36:50,000
if we do with the school, I have to get back to you. I think it is an off-cost

387
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:54,200
it wouldn't be as much as if we did it on our own, but I'll get clarification.

388
00:36:57,060 --> 00:37:01,380
For me, it's just a cost of doing business. That's how I look at that, that election cost.

389
00:37:05,950 --> 00:37:07,170
Mayor

390
00:37:16,610 --> 00:37:19,430
Council, good morning, or afternoon.

391
00:37:21,010 --> 00:37:26,690
As we've had these discussions over the years, we're all familiar with how important

392
00:37:26,690 --> 00:37:27,910
pavement management is.

393
00:37:28,430 --> 00:37:37,450
It takes a lot of planning and a lot of funding to maintain arguably one of our most valuable

394
00:37:37,450 --> 00:37:37,970
assets.

395
00:37:39,130 --> 00:37:44,930
I would argue on behalf of public works in the last 15 years, thanks to cooperation from

396
00:37:44,930 --> 00:37:52,810
the elected body and management that we have made incredible progress in providing funding

397
00:37:53,230 --> 00:37:58,190
and tackling some of the challenges that we face in regards to payment management.

398
00:37:59,130 --> 00:38:05,310
The uptick or downtick or the minimal amount of movement in regards to the backlog are

399
00:38:05,310 --> 00:38:07,570
one of the things that we have discussed often.

400
00:38:08,310 --> 00:38:14,650
The challenge with a backlog as we are having a discussion five years ago to address this

401
00:38:14,650 --> 00:38:21,250
many streets, in this length of time, some of the ones that were marginal in that time

402
00:38:21,250 --> 00:38:28,290
have now fallen into the backlog. So that's when the data gets a little bit confusing.

403
00:38:29,070 --> 00:38:35,390
When we were preparing this sometime back on the latter part of preparing what you were

404
00:38:35,390 --> 00:38:39,930
about to see, and Mr. General was going to share with you, I was actually absent. Our oldest

405
00:38:39,930 --> 00:38:45,370
granddaughter graduated from Texas or from high school in Texas and so my wife and I were there.

406
00:38:45,910 --> 00:38:52,190
Mr. Solinger, Mr. Janover and Mr. Pierce, he was here, there he is, they worked as a team,

407
00:38:52,550 --> 00:38:58,230
an incredible amount of hours to bring you this accurate data and information that you're going

408
00:38:58,230 --> 00:39:04,110
to have. In light of that, Mr. Janover is going to do the majority of the presentations and answer

409
00:39:04,110 --> 00:39:09,510
the questions. I will certainly be here along with Paul and Mr. Pierce if you have any questions for

410
00:39:09,510 --> 00:39:15,330
us. I would like to thank you for the opportunity to spend an afternoon discussing pavement

411
00:39:15,330 --> 00:39:24,310
management. It is a long-term planning process that requires funding permanently, not just

412
00:39:24,310 --> 00:39:29,990
once here and there, but it requires funding ongoing. So even the stuff that is brand new

413
00:39:29,990 --> 00:39:34,330
right now is going to require maintenance in five to seven years, and a lot of that depends

414
00:39:34,330 --> 00:39:40,410
on the weather so it's not a one and done it is a continual process that requires funding so

415
00:39:40,410 --> 00:39:43,710
again thank you thank you

416
00:39:51,490 --> 00:39:56,570
bearing counsel management so everyone's very very happy to be here to

417
00:39:56,570 --> 00:40:05,830
continue our conversation on our payment management so the conversation is going to shift now from our

418
00:40:05,830 --> 00:40:11,870
funding history and the potential financing options to the actual condition of our

419
00:40:11,870 --> 00:40:18,130
roadway system, where we are today, and how we got here, and what the magnitude of that need looks

420
00:40:18,130 --> 00:40:24,690
like. And the purpose of these next slides, again, is not to identify a final bond amount today.

421
00:40:24,890 --> 00:40:32,070
That's not what we're looking to do. Our purpose here is to give counsel enough information to understand

422
00:40:32,070 --> 00:40:37,650
the condition of our network, and the scale of the problem so that you can tell us, you can tell staff,

423
00:40:38,470 --> 00:40:42,330
what you want us to do to, if you want it to continue evaluating a bond.

424
00:40:43,830 --> 00:40:44,550
So the town maintains,

425
00:40:47,100 --> 00:40:52,140
the town maintains approximately 168 centerline miles of paved roadway.

426
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:59,800
A centerline mile is, that just means that we measure the length of the roadway down its centerline,

427
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:04,580
regardless of whether it has two lanes, four lanes, six lanes, et cetera.

428
00:41:04,580 --> 00:41:13,440
But when you account for the actual paved width of our roads, we maintain almost 3.5 million

429
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:14,740
square yards of pavement.

430
00:41:15,900 --> 00:41:21,280
So to put that into perspective, that's enough pavement area to construct a two-lane roadway

431
00:41:22,220 --> 00:41:24,780
from Fountain Hills to Las Vegas.

432
00:41:26,340 --> 00:41:29,900
PCI, you've heard this term bandied about many, many times.

433
00:41:31,220 --> 00:41:33,780
PCI stands for pavement condition index, right?

434
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:38,960
And that is simply a standardized zero to 100 scale based

435
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:42,520
on the type of severity and extent of our pavement

436
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:43,980
distress that we see in a road.

437
00:41:45,340 --> 00:41:48,660
A hundred is essentially a perfect pavement, right?

438
00:41:48,740 --> 00:41:52,960
With no observed distresses, no observed cracking.

439
00:41:54,100 --> 00:41:56,240
A zero is a completely failed pavement.

440
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:57,640
What you can see is crats.

441
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:00,680
you can actually pick up a piece of the road which is crumbling in your fingers.

442
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:07,000
Now, PCI is not simply a measure of how smooth the road feels.

443
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:14,820
A road can actually ride reasonably well, but still have cracking or other

444
00:42:14,820 --> 00:42:17,540
distresses that actually lower its PCI.

445
00:42:18,700 --> 00:42:23,140
But for our purposes, the important break point we have is below 40.

446
00:42:23,140 --> 00:42:27,460
And you can see that, that line pointing to that 26 to 40 and 0 to 25.

447
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:34,000
So once roads, these are the roads that we refer to as our backlog, right?

448
00:42:34,100 --> 00:42:35,620
You've heard that many, many times.

449
00:42:36,220 --> 00:42:41,860
By this point, we're generally beyond any kind of cost-effective preservation, and we're looking

450
00:42:41,860 --> 00:42:44,040
at reconstruction to address those roads.

451
00:42:45,220 --> 00:42:50,260
So we want to think of PCI, I like the analogy of thinking of it as a health score, right?

452
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:50,840
For the pavement.

453
00:42:50,840 --> 00:43:00,420
So the closer we are to 100, closer we are to 100, the healthier the roadway is, correct?

454
00:43:04,700 --> 00:43:17,260
And as you get down below that 26-40 in the module towards the poor situation, that's when we have a situation where we have,

455
00:43:17,260 --> 00:43:26,460
have, we're past the point of preventative maintenance and we're into major surgery.

456
00:43:37,980 --> 00:43:44,800
So Council has established a level of service pavement condition goal back in 2018, right?

457
00:43:44,940 --> 00:43:48,940
So these are not new standards that we're talking about and that we're created for the

458
00:43:48,940 --> 00:43:50,940
purpose of our bond discussion tonight.

459
00:43:54,530 --> 00:43:58,910
We don't try to maintain every street at a PCI of a hundred, right, because that would

460
00:43:58,910 --> 00:44:04,730
not be necessary, nor financially practical in fact it would probably bankrupt us.

461
00:44:06,890 --> 00:44:12,830
Paving management is really about maintaining an acceptable condition at the lowest lifelike

462
00:44:12,830 --> 00:44:14,070
would cost, right?

463
00:44:14,890 --> 00:44:18,490
So the minimum acceptable condition varies by the roadway function.

464
00:44:19,510 --> 00:44:24,370
So we hold our arterials to the highest standards, right, because they carry the greatest

465
00:44:24,370 --> 00:44:29,190
volumes, and they essentially are the backbone of our transportation network.

466
00:44:29,810 --> 00:44:34,070
Then that's followed by collectors and then finally by the local residential streets.

467
00:44:37,450 --> 00:44:43,390
The targets that were established in 2018 were roughly 60 to 70 for arterials, 50 to 60

468
00:44:43,710 --> 00:44:48,190
for collectors, and 50 to 55 for local residential streets.

469
00:44:49,270 --> 00:44:56,450
Now, the objective is to intervene before the rows deteriorate below those thresholds.

470
00:44:56,450 --> 00:44:58,110
because once they reach that port condition,

471
00:44:58,990 --> 00:44:59,970
the available treatment changes.

472
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:08,780
Pensions from our relatively inexpensive preservation to a much more expensive reconstruction. And again,

473
00:45:08,900 --> 00:45:15,280
these PCI values are essentially minimum service level targets, okay? The goal is to keep roads above

474
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,980
these minimum levels and treat them before they become much more expensive defects.

475
00:45:23,410 --> 00:45:23,830
Now, you may

476
00:45:23,830 --> 00:45:30,190
remember that approximately $65 million figure from the 2022 pavement analysis that we did with

477
00:45:30,190 --> 00:45:36,990
the ad hoc street committee, it's important to understand what that $65 million represented.

478
00:45:37,850 --> 00:45:42,930
That was essentially a fix everything that was below its target condition scenario, okay.

479
00:45:43,170 --> 00:45:50,410
So that included everything from relatively inexpensive crack ceiling and slurry seals to

480
00:45:50,410 --> 00:45:53,350
millen overlay work all the way through to full depth reconstruction.

481
00:45:54,390 --> 00:45:59,350
So that $65 million was not a $65 million backlog, okay, I just want to make that clear.

482
00:45:59,350 --> 00:46:05,190
that was not a $65 million backlog that was for everything and it's not equivalent to the bond

483
00:46:05,190 --> 00:46:11,650
number that we're discussing today. Backlog roads requiring reconstruction represented only

484
00:46:11,650 --> 00:46:18,970
a portion of that original $65 million. And the analysis that we're discussing today is much more

485
00:46:18,970 --> 00:46:24,690
focused primarily on the roads that are either reconstruction, either require reconstruction now

486
00:46:25,250 --> 00:46:28,870
or are projected to require reconstruction in the near future.

487
00:46:38,380 --> 00:46:43,700
So over the last few years, the town has generally followed a very balanced pavement management approach.

488
00:46:43,700 --> 00:46:46,100
I'm actually very, very proud of the approach that we've taken.

489
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:50,940
And this approach has been recommended by our pavement consultants, model runs.

490
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:56,240
So as you know, we use this model called the boss system.

491
00:46:56,860 --> 00:47:03,160
And that's essentially what tells us which roads to treat and when and so forth.

492
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:08,020
So, for roads that have already failed, we reconstruct them, right, it's that simple.

493
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:12,520
But for roads that are still in reasonably good condition, we try to preserve them before

494
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:15,740
they become failures, that's the whole point of payment management.

495
00:47:16,780 --> 00:47:22,640
So, two of the biggest enemies of asphalt payment are water and our environment, right, particularly

496
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:28,200
the intense sun and the ultraviolet UV radiation, correct, exposure that we have here in Arizona.

497
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:36,500
Once water gets through those cracks in the pavement and into the underlying pavement structure, deterioration accelerates.

498
00:47:37,140 --> 00:47:46,160
Over time, oxidation and that UV exposure make the asphalt binder harder and more brittle and that leads to additional cracking.

499
00:47:46,540 --> 00:47:56,040
And that's why it's so important that treatments like crack sealing and slurry seals take place because they help to protect the pavement while it's still worth protecting.

500
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:59,560
That's a very, very important point.

501
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:03,260
A crack seal is relatively inexpensive, right?

502
00:48:03,780 --> 00:48:08,720
We seal cracks all the time, and the reason for that is primarily to keep water from getting

503
00:48:08,720 --> 00:48:10,320
into that underlying pavement structure.

504
00:48:11,020 --> 00:48:16,240
A slurry seal is a thin service treatment, and that seals and protects the pavement and

505
00:48:16,240 --> 00:48:22,300
slows down the deterioration, but it does not add any meaningful structural strength to

506
00:48:22,300 --> 00:48:22,680
the pavement.

507
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:29,660
A milling overlay is a more substantial treatment where we remove that deteriorated surface and

508
00:48:29,660 --> 00:48:34,840
we replace it with new asphalt while we still retain the underlying pavement structure underneath

509
00:48:35,540 --> 00:48:37,140
and that's still serviceable.

510
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:43,160
And then when the pavement structure itself has reached the end of its useful life, well then

511
00:48:43,620 --> 00:48:45,280
that's when we move to a full depth reconstruction.

512
00:48:46,540 --> 00:48:48,920
And that's essentially rebuilding the entire roadway pavement section.

513
00:48:49,860 --> 00:48:54,600
So the reason for this comprehensive balanced approach, right, is that a dollar spent at

514
00:48:54,600 --> 00:49:00,340
the right time preserving a good road can postpone a much larger reconstruction expense.

515
00:49:01,820 --> 00:49:07,360
So if we simply followed a worst first strategy, and you know, you're saying like, well, let's

516
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,160
just take care, let's just tackle all the backlog, let's just take care of all that.

517
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:17,140
If we did that worst first strategy, we could spend everything rebuilding the roads, right,

518
00:49:17,140 --> 00:49:22,180
that have failed while the rest of the system is deteriorating behind it, so that's why

519
00:49:22,180 --> 00:49:24,000
we have to have this two-pronged approach.

520
00:49:28,810 --> 00:49:33,570
So our primary tool for selecting the roadway treatments is the payment management model,

521
00:49:33,790 --> 00:49:38,510
the boss system that we are using roadway asset services for, and there the consultant that

522
00:49:38,510 --> 00:49:40,910
helps us run that model time and time again.

523
00:49:41,650 --> 00:49:48,730
The model evaluates the condition of our entire network, and it helps us to determine how

524
00:49:48,730 --> 00:49:54,530
to use the available payment funding in the most financially and prudent and efficient way.

525
00:49:55,570 --> 00:50:00,290
So in other words, the model is designed to optimize our investment. Identifying which road should

526
00:50:00,290 --> 00:50:05,210
be treated, what treatment should be used so that the treatment provides the greatest value.

527
00:50:06,570 --> 00:50:10,270
So as a general rule, the annual payment program is driven by the recommendations that are coming

528
00:50:10,270 --> 00:50:15,350
out of that model. So each year, Steph uploads a list of the roads that we have treated

529
00:50:15,970 --> 00:50:20,230
that fiscal year to the pavement consultant, we do that at the end of each fiscal year,

530
00:50:20,610 --> 00:50:25,070
and they in turn update the model with the work that was completed, and then they rerun

531
00:50:25,070 --> 00:50:30,830
the model for the following year and subsequent years, and that tells us what is coming up

532
00:50:30,830 --> 00:50:31,130
next.

533
00:50:32,550 --> 00:50:37,770
Now there are occasions, however, when we intentionally deviate from the model based on other considerations.

534
00:50:37,770 --> 00:50:38,930
For

535
00:50:44,210 --> 00:50:49,590
example, Palomino Boulevard, Richwood Drive, and Thistle Drive.

536
00:50:50,230 --> 00:50:55,670
Those were advanced last fiscal year, based in part on Council direction and public input

537
00:50:56,070 --> 00:51:00,550
along with staff's evaluation of the conditions in the field and engineering judgment.

538
00:51:01,770 --> 00:51:05,130
But again, I want to emphasize that those are really the exceptions.

539
00:51:05,970 --> 00:51:11,650
The model remains the primary basis for us developing our paving program because it allows

540
00:51:11,650 --> 00:51:16,910
us to optimize the limited dollars across our entire roadway network. And we also continue

541
00:51:16,910 --> 00:51:23,710
to maximize the funding that council provides us by adding additional preservation work whenever

542
00:51:23,710 --> 00:51:28,430
contract pricing and remaining budget capacity allows us to do so. So you'll notice that

543
00:51:29,530 --> 00:51:34,710
many sometimes we have some funding left over at the end of each fiscal year and we take that and

544
00:51:34,710 --> 00:51:40,890
we advance we kind of tackle what's next in the queue to kind of get a beat on that. So we do whatever

545
00:51:40,890 --> 00:51:41,310
we can.

546
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:49,640
Now this slide represents probably the biggest challenge that the town faces when

547
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:54,340
it comes to payment management. That is our need to do two things at the same time. We

548
00:51:54,340 --> 00:51:59,160
need to one, reconstruct the roads that have already failed, while two, continuing to preserve

549
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:04,720
the roads that have not failed quite yet. So our payment management strategy has done a relatively

550
00:52:04,720 --> 00:52:11,020
good job of keeping our overall payment network in relatively good condition and has protected

551
00:52:11,020 --> 00:52:17,380
our private investments. But time marches on, right, and roads continue to age. At some point,

552
00:52:17,380 --> 00:52:22,680
a marginal road crosses that line where another surface treatment is no longer economically

553
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:28,060
appropriate, and full reconstruction is going to be required. And that's what this graphic on

554
00:52:28,060 --> 00:52:32,560
the right side of the page is really showing, right? We have about 14% of the network

555
00:52:33,660 --> 00:52:40,660
that is currently in this marginal 41 to 50 category. So those roads are the pipeline that's

556
00:52:40,660 --> 00:52:44,220
that's feeding our future backlog if they're not treated in time.

557
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:50,540
And that's why simply eliminating today's backlog doesn't permanently solve the problem, right?

558
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:54,540
There are always going to be additional pavement that's aging behind it.

559
00:52:55,880 --> 00:53:03,540
So a successful long-term strategy therefore needs one source of funding that's capable of addressing the reconstruction backlog

560
00:53:03,540 --> 00:53:09,000
while also preserving enough annual revenue to maintain our healthier portion of the system.

561
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:09,980
So,

562
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:17,920
this slide is probably the simplest way to visualize what we're dealing with.

563
00:53:18,500 --> 00:53:22,740
Think of our pavement network as a boat that's taking on water and that boat is captain

564
00:53:22,740 --> 00:53:29,460
by the very cute as a button, Justin Weldy, as you can see, he's, we love this, we love

565
00:53:29,460 --> 00:53:31,320
this graphic, anyway.

566
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:35,780
So think of our pavement network as a boat that's taking on water.

567
00:53:36,820 --> 00:53:41,740
So we're bailing out water every year, right, by reconstructing the backlog streets, that's

568
00:53:41,740 --> 00:53:42,460
what he's bailing out.

569
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:47,520
But at the same time, water's still coming in from the back

570
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:49,600
of the boat there, because additional aging streets

571
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:52,440
are continuing to deteriorate and enter our backlog.

572
00:53:53,380 --> 00:53:54,800
So if roads are entering the backlog,

573
00:53:55,300 --> 00:53:58,220
faster than we're able to reconstruct them,

574
00:53:59,020 --> 00:54:00,560
then that total backlog grows.

575
00:54:01,020 --> 00:54:04,260
Water is rising in the boat.

576
00:54:04,980 --> 00:54:05,720
Our backlog is growing.

577
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:08,340
Even though we're spending millions of dollars

578
00:54:09,980 --> 00:54:12,160
on completing projects every year.

579
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:16,060
So the objective is not simply to bail out faster one year, right?

580
00:54:16,720 --> 00:54:23,260
We actually need a sustainable funding approach that's going to allow us both to address and reduce the existing backlog

581
00:54:23,260 --> 00:54:28,780
and also reduce the rate at which the additional streets are falling into it, which is the water that's entering the boat.

582
00:54:31,930 --> 00:54:34,390
I just want to just stay on this slide for a few more minutes.

583
00:54:34,650 --> 00:54:35,030
Sorry.

584
00:54:36,930 --> 00:54:41,590
So this next slide actually illustrates the boat analogy pretty well.

585
00:54:41,930 --> 00:54:46,070
We've been successful in maintaining our overall condition of our pavement network.

586
00:54:46,790 --> 00:54:51,470
But at the same time, the amount of water in the boat, which our backlog has actually increased.

587
00:54:52,610 --> 00:55:01,430
So since 2022, the town has invested approximately $20.8 million in roadway repairs and preservation.

588
00:55:01,430 --> 00:55:10,430
So that investment has helped us maintain a relatively strong overall network PCI right or actually we've increased it slightly from

589
00:55:10,430 --> 00:55:23,370
69 in 2023 to 69.8 in 2026. So we mainly held it held it steady. At the same time the percentage of the network and

590
00:55:23,370 --> 00:55:29,570
backlog you see that number down towards the bottom left there. The percentage of the network in

591
00:55:29,570 --> 00:55:36,150
backlog is actually increased from 5.44% to 10.41%, about almost a 90% increase.

592
00:55:36,990 --> 00:55:39,550
So at first those numbers may seem a bit contradictory, right?

593
00:55:40,150 --> 00:55:43,730
But let's remember that PCI is an average across the entire network.

594
00:55:44,130 --> 00:55:48,610
So by preserving and improving a large portion of our streets, we've actually been able to maintain

595
00:55:48,610 --> 00:55:55,370
that overall average even while a growing number of the individual roads have deteriorated

596
00:55:55,370 --> 00:55:56,410
into backlog condition.

597
00:55:56,410 --> 00:55:59,090
So both things can be true at the same time.

598
00:55:59,830 --> 00:56:01,690
Over all that work can remain relatively healthy

599
00:56:01,690 --> 00:56:05,250
while the number of roads at the bottom of that condition scale

600
00:56:05,250 --> 00:56:08,410
continue to degrade and continue to grow, actually.

601
00:56:09,250 --> 00:56:12,930
So if we take a look at that other number in the middle there on the left,

602
00:56:13,390 --> 00:56:17,890
the percentage of roads in good or better condition has also declined a bit

603
00:56:17,890 --> 00:56:24,390
from 69% to 63.52% between 2023 and 2026.

604
00:56:24,910 --> 00:56:29,210
That's another indication that more of the network is moving down that deterioration curve.

605
00:56:35,300 --> 00:56:40,520
So, these numbers were actually put together, I believe it was like last May, I believe in May.

606
00:56:41,180 --> 00:56:50,040
So, but we can kind of, for intends and purposes for today's discussion, we can consider this still pretty much the same as it, and call it today's numbers.

607
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:58,380
So this, our model today, identifies 221 roadway segments that are already in backlog,

608
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:03,460
that's that number on that red line, and that's requiring reconstruction.

609
00:57:04,100 --> 00:57:07,660
Right, the estimated reconstruction cost for those existing backlog segments,

610
00:57:07,780 --> 00:57:16,900
those 221 segments, including an inflation assumption, is approximately 20.1 million dollars.

611
00:57:16,900 --> 00:57:23,360
But that's only a snapshot, this is today's backlog, right, taken right now.

612
00:57:24,020 --> 00:57:29,640
The model also identifies another 249 segments that are currently approaching the threshold

613
00:57:30,900 --> 00:57:35,720
and are expected to fall into backlog over approximately the next three to five years.

614
00:57:37,090 --> 00:57:42,120
The estimated reconstruction cost for those additional near-term backlog segments is approximately

615
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:44,160
$28.2 million.

616
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:44,920
So

617
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:57,240
the planning level five year need is essentially 20.1 million plus 28.2 million or 48.3 million dollars adjusted for inflation.

618
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:09,700
So that 48.3 million dollars represents the estimated reconstruction need for roads that are either already in backlog or projected to reach backlog condition over the next three to five years.

619
00:58:11,100 --> 00:58:16,540
Now, the $48.3 million should not be viewed as replacing our annual pavement program.

620
00:58:17,380 --> 00:58:22,780
Under the funding network, that's reflected in the presentation, the bond proceeds would

621
00:58:22,780 --> 00:58:29,740
be directed only toward eligible capital improvements, primarily just really the full reconstruction

622
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:32,340
of roads that have reached the backlog condition.

623
00:58:33,500 --> 00:58:36,780
The bond would not eliminate the need for our ongoing streets fund pavement program.

624
00:58:36,780 --> 00:58:38,560
Right, bonds can only be used for reconstruction.

625
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:43,140
Our other revenues will be used for pavement preservation.

626
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:49,020
So, we still need that annual funding for crack ceiling slurry seals, mill and overlay

627
00:58:49,020 --> 00:58:53,360
work, and any other preservation work or treatments that's necessary to keep those good roads

628
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:55,060
from becoming a future backlog.

629
00:58:56,660 --> 00:58:58,340
So, that is the basic strategy.

630
00:58:59,240 --> 00:58:59,440
Oh, yes.

631
00:58:59,980 --> 00:59:05,160
Yeah, the ones that are soon to in the next three to five years need reconstruction.

632
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:15,520
Is there any maintenance you can do on it to any preventative maintenance on those well if that's if nothing's done to that. Yes mayor and vice mayor if we were to

633
00:59:16,580 --> 00:59:19,180
Address those then we do have other other

634
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:29,560
Rows that are going to be also falling into backlog behind that so what our what our what our approach here was was to say take a five-year

635
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:35,020
time frame, look at everything that's going to be either in backlog now or going to be in backlog

636
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:44,480
and address that with the bond proceeds while we use other other funds to address preservation.

637
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:51,240
Because as we're doing this other roads are going to be falling from preservation that we don't

638
00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:56,280
get a chance to preserve, I'm going to fall into this other marginal category right behind these.

639
00:59:56,620 --> 00:59:59,980
So at some point we just had to kind of pick a number like okay over five years.

640
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:29,060
Where are we going to be? Let's address all those and get those done now while we're preserving the rest of our healthier roads. So I understand where you come from. Let me just ask you again. Yeah. The ones that are at the three to five years. I mean, you're basing this on we do nothing, nothing preventative on those, but is there a possibility of those that are soon to be backlogged? Any preventative to keep them from becoming not needing to be reconstructed? That was my question. Yes.

641
01:00:32,580 --> 01:00:37,840
Yes, the short answer to your question is yes, something can be done to those, but we

642
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:43,880
have to kind of pick a point in which we say, okay, because if we were to address those

643
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:52,820
and put the money into those, then we are taking money away from other roles that needed

644
01:00:52,820 --> 01:00:53,220
as well.

645
01:00:53,220 --> 01:00:58,700
Well, these are already almost, they're about to slip into the backlog, and our thought

646
01:00:58,700 --> 01:01:09,000
was, well, if we address those with the bond money, then the rest of our network, the

647
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:12,980
more healthier part of our network, we'll be able to put the money revenues into that

648
01:01:12,980 --> 01:01:20,700
for payment, treatment, for maintenance, extending the life of those, yeah.

649
01:01:20,700 --> 01:01:23,580
Yeah, these are almost at the end of their end of their life.

650
01:01:24,180 --> 01:01:29,540
So putting another pavement treatment into these, another maintenance treatment into

651
01:01:29,540 --> 01:01:32,380
these, will get us a couple of years more.

652
01:01:32,860 --> 01:01:40,280
So where our thought was that we'd rather put the right dollars towards the right roadways

653
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:40,980
and the right treatments.

654
01:01:42,100 --> 01:01:48,220
So again, we were trying to pick a year and trying to pick a time frame to say this is

655
01:01:48,220 --> 01:01:51,940
Is when these roads are going to, oh, did you want to say something cool?

656
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:56,720
I just felt someone behind me.

657
01:01:57,580 --> 01:02:03,120
So that was essentially, we just had to pick a time frame to say, okay, in three to five

658
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:06,120
years these are going to be in backlog, and these are going to be in backlog.

659
01:02:06,860 --> 01:02:10,720
Let's get those on the queue to take care of them, because we're going to take care of them.

660
01:02:11,900 --> 01:02:14,140
Anyway, again, we're not going to take care of them all right now.

661
01:02:14,260 --> 01:02:16,140
We just don't have the funding to do it all right now.

662
01:02:16,140 --> 01:02:23,180
So we're anticipating with a bond that those will be at the point where we need to take

663
01:02:23,180 --> 01:02:23,620
care of them.

664
01:02:24,140 --> 01:02:29,060
And again, if we don't put the maintenance money into the other roads to protect the

665
01:02:29,060 --> 01:02:34,580
access, want to call it healthier roads, then those are going to degrade as well.

666
01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:38,020
So we just kind of have to draw a line in the sand if you will.

667
01:02:45,300 --> 01:02:51,800
Along the same lines, if you addressed some of these roads that are in that sub 40 category,

668
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:59,000
is there anything you can do, and if there is something you can do based upon the aggressiveness

669
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:04,620
of the approach, whether it's crack seal, slurry, mill and overlay, how long could each of

670
01:03:04,620 --> 01:03:10,300
those incremental treatments extend the life of those streets and bring them up to a more

671
01:03:10,300 --> 01:03:13,040
are palatable, marginal, fair, good.

672
01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:17,580
And I think for stalling some of this might make some sense

673
01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:19,700
by doing something as an intermediate.

674
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:21,920
And if you're telling me that everything below 40,

675
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:24,840
it's not salvageable, there's nothing we can do.

676
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:26,200
That's one answer.

677
01:03:26,380 --> 01:03:27,840
But if there's something we can do

678
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:29,520
to extend the life of those streets

679
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:32,460
or it minimally improve it, that's another answer.

680
01:03:33,580 --> 01:03:34,480
Good point, Mayor.

681
01:03:34,700 --> 01:03:35,400
Council member Watts,

682
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:47,500
I'll let public works director Weldy discuss the chip deal with the Cape, which we've done actually as a pilot project, so I'll let him discuss.

683
01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:48,720
Can we go back to his slide?

684
01:03:49,220 --> 01:03:54,280
It's kind of like having a poster made of it.

685
01:03:55,580 --> 01:03:58,840
So, Mr. General was doing an excellent job of explaining it.

686
01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:06,500
So the marginal roads continue to degrade at a percentage based on their life and

687
01:04:06,500 --> 01:04:12,080
the weather. We simply don't have enough funding in the bucket to use one of Paul's metaphors

688
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:19,220
to address all of them. The question is from the vice mayor, can we address some of them

689
01:04:19,220 --> 01:04:26,380
in the marginal? Absolutely. Is there something that we can do to extend their life? Sure, we've

690
01:04:26,380 --> 01:04:32,760
been before this body before and ask for permission to do an edge mill, a chip seal with a cape.

691
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:47,220
And we've been successful with that, some certainly, some lessons learned, for the three of them that we've done two different locations now, one of them is fairing incredibly well, a section of Chama, the other section not so well.

692
01:04:47,600 --> 01:05:00,880
So yes, there are less expensive alternatives to bringing them back just above 40, and the intent of that alternative was to allow us more time for planning and funding scenarios.

693
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:05,060
But each of those treatments has an incremental increase in life.

694
01:05:05,480 --> 01:05:13,660
So if I went from the crack seal up to a slurry seal or a cape and overlay, then what would

695
01:05:13,660 --> 01:05:14,940
I get in return?

696
01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:17,680
How many more years of life out of that street if I could do it?

697
01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:21,140
And each one has an incremental increase in life expectancy.

698
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:24,700
So each one of the segments are slightly different.

699
01:05:24,700 --> 01:05:30,640
So just to do a vague, we could probably move that out two and a half to three years max

700
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:36,480
before we would have to address it. And having moved it out two and a half or three years

701
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:41,800
until we could address it, it is now in the area that it's going to need a milling overlay or

702
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:47,260
full depth reconstruction. So we can move it out slightly, but we can't save it.

703
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:53,760
So assuming we did the bond, how much is this going to change in a year to two years?

704
01:05:53,760 --> 01:05:56,000
Is it going to get progressively worse?

705
01:05:56,100 --> 01:06:03,080
Are we going to hold our own at that 69.8% or how far are we going to slip?

706
01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:10,300
The intent with this discussion in regards to direction is that we would have enough funding

707
01:06:10,300 --> 01:06:17,180
to move over the next several years to address the backlog and use the funding that is currently

708
01:06:17,180 --> 01:06:18,860
allocated for maintenance.

709
01:06:18,860 --> 01:06:36,380
So we would gain substantially, the backlog number would go down substantially with bond funding provided we still had adequate funding to continue to do maintenance to keep us back into the above 40, 50, 60 or even up to 70 PCI range for some of the other roads.

710
01:06:36,380 --> 01:06:39,800
So our backlog would drop substantially.

711
01:06:40,580 --> 01:06:47,840
So you're really pushing us to the 20 million plus level and you're going to hold on the

712
01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:50,660
soon to fall into the backlog with what we've got currently.

713
01:06:51,340 --> 01:06:54,580
The intent is not to push the council in regards to funding.

714
01:06:54,740 --> 01:06:59,040
Those were just different options that Mr. Solinger presented.

715
01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:01,740
So we don't want to back you into a corner here.

716
01:07:01,740 --> 01:07:11,840
We are simply providing accurate data and information that would allow you to make a decision to either move forward or stop based on these different scenarios.

717
01:07:12,060 --> 01:07:17,060
I didn't mean to phrase it as backing us into a corner. It was more along the lines and that's the reality that we're looking at.

718
01:07:17,460 --> 01:07:28,040
The reality is that in order to get the backlog back up above 40 and get it into a fair condition, I would say at a minimum, you need the 20 million plus.

719
01:07:28,740 --> 01:07:30,200
I would not argue with that estimate.

720
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:37,600
Justine, give me some numbers as far as time frame.

721
01:07:38,220 --> 01:07:43,640
A full depth reconstruction will last us what, 20 or 30 years if we're lucky.

722
01:07:46,120 --> 01:07:49,740
Mr. Mayor, and so it's not a very complicated process.

723
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:57,680
We live in a relatively dry with the temperature fluctuations going the opposite direction and most of that on the planet.

724
01:07:58,040 --> 01:08:00,520
We go from the 60s and 70s into the hundreds.

725
01:08:00,520 --> 01:08:05,880
But it's the thaw-free cycle that really degradates the integrity of asphalt overall.

726
01:08:06,280 --> 01:08:12,440
So a brand new road full depth construction, we could really be looking at 20 to 25 years

727
01:08:12,440 --> 01:08:13,120
provided.

728
01:08:13,720 --> 01:08:17,900
There was adequate funding at the five to seven year mark to do crack-billum preservative

729
01:08:17,900 --> 01:08:18,200
seal.

730
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:22,420
So we've actually been able to get up to 30 years out of some.

731
01:08:22,940 --> 01:08:23,160
Okay.

732
01:08:23,440 --> 01:08:26,500
So a mill and overlay, what kind of lifespan?

733
01:08:26,500 --> 01:08:34,180
a million overlay extends the life approximately two-thirds of a lifespan, so it would be 16, 17 years.

734
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:36,140
And how about cap and chip?

735
01:08:38,440 --> 01:08:44,620
A maximum of five to seven years, and that's again just moving something, kicking the can down the road is how I've described it.

736
01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:47,120
Okay, thank you. You're welcome. Vice mayor?

737
01:08:53,640 --> 01:08:57,240
There, I am muted. Sorry, now I'm learning the mute button.

738
01:08:57,240 --> 01:09:05,040
And Paul, my question is, so we get 20 million, we get caught up, but in three to five years,

739
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:06,940
are we going to be back here asking for another bond?

740
01:09:07,720 --> 01:09:09,460
That's what it looks like to me here, if we.

741
01:09:10,840 --> 01:09:11,560
Good question.

742
01:09:11,780 --> 01:09:16,720
So mayor, vice mayor, I want to point out when I was nervously pacing back and forth,

743
01:09:16,860 --> 01:09:20,280
I kind of want to say a few things about the data because, you know, from my perspective,

744
01:09:20,560 --> 01:09:21,320
a finance perspective.

745
01:09:21,320 --> 01:09:28,560
to. So, one thing that we really should hedge on is these are estimates. We haven't had

746
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:33,520
this PCI data collected in about four years. So, we're just using predictions at this

747
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:37,540
point, predictive methodology to predict what we are today. It could change if we actually

748
01:09:37,540 --> 01:09:42,700
did another full measurement, but it's relatively accurate. I think anywhere in the plus

749
01:09:42,700 --> 01:09:47,400
of 10 percent range is probably where we are as far as the backlog numbers that we're

750
01:09:47,400 --> 01:09:53,840
today. I just wanted to make that clear. This is just for discussion purposes. As far as

751
01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:58,960
bonding goes, the other thing that I wanted to mention is what was really interesting

752
01:09:58,960 --> 01:10:03,520
is the pavement management program for this year. It's all focused on red smaller residential

753
01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:08,560
roads in the town. And if you look at the backlog number, what kind of stands out, that $20 million,

754
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:14,420
the $15 million is for our local roads. Our look from my understanding, Justin can touch

755
01:10:14,420 --> 01:10:19,980
on this, but a lot of our local roads have not been touched or reconstructed in so long

756
01:10:19,980 --> 01:10:25,660
and many of them are pre-incorporated. So you can see as a backlog number most of it is local

757
01:10:25,660 --> 01:10:31,680
roads and this year we are addressing almost entirely or I think entirely local roads. So everything

758
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:36,680
we're doing this year is mitigating or reducing that number. Say we do five to six million dollars

759
01:10:36,680 --> 01:10:41,300
this year that directly reduces that backlog number. So actually our backlog number is starting to

760
01:10:41,300 --> 01:10:46,460
look pretty good. It's right around $15 million today. The challenge is that $28 million

761
01:10:46,460 --> 01:10:51,280
come and do in the next few years. And most of that is in the next three to five years,

762
01:10:52,220 --> 01:10:57,960
where another $28 million, and most of that is local roads as well when I look at the data.

763
01:10:58,300 --> 01:11:04,180
A similar percentage falls into that backlog as well. So if we were to do a bond, you know,

764
01:11:04,280 --> 01:11:08,080
what we would do, you know, I don't want to speak for them, but from a budgetary standpoint,

765
01:11:11,500 --> 01:11:22,360
If the council does still continue to authorize a million or so, two million dollars of transfers into the streets fund, that's how we could get there. That would be a challenge though. That would be really some navigation.

766
01:11:23,400 --> 01:11:31,980
And if we did that, we could really substantially reduce the backlog ourselves. But then the soon to be backlog is what we cannot address with just our operating budget.

767
01:11:31,980 --> 01:11:38,700
that. So if that's what the council want to do is really correct or fix most of the backlog,

768
01:11:39,500 --> 01:11:45,800
bonding is pretty much our only option to do that. If the council or the residents are happy

769
01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:50,780
with the road conditions today and maybe some marginal improvements, then we just, I'd say,

770
01:11:50,940 --> 01:11:54,260
continue what we're doing today with our operating budget.

771
01:11:58,700 --> 01:12:01,700
Paul, can I ask you one clarifying question, Mayor? If that's okay with you.

772
01:12:01,700 --> 01:12:22,120
What I heard you say was, and this is directly to your question, Vice Mayor, so if the bond was approved and we moved towards that, we would work kind of congruently with our operating budget to continue to address, so let's just say the bond goes towards those that are under 40.

773
01:12:24,060 --> 01:12:29,740
The allocated budget each year would go towards preventing anything else to fall into that.

774
01:12:29,900 --> 01:12:34,420
So we would kind of run, can, can grow an effort so that we're not back here in three to

775
01:12:34,420 --> 01:12:38,020
five years, ideally, if that, but we have to make sure that we have the funds available

776
01:12:38,020 --> 01:12:38,620
to do that.

777
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:43,220
That's obviously highly contingent on our budgeting process and our revenues and other things

778
01:12:43,220 --> 01:12:43,680
like that.

779
01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:44,860
Is that what I heard you say?

780
01:12:45,260 --> 01:12:45,460
Yes.

781
01:12:45,600 --> 01:12:47,180
That's an excellent way to summarize.

782
01:12:47,380 --> 01:12:51,480
That's a probably good option is to, if the council do want to move forward in a bond,

783
01:12:51,480 --> 01:12:58,000
use that towards the current backlog and then start using the operating budget to try

784
01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:00,420
to address everything that's going to start falling into the backlog.

785
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:04,340
That's probably a really good idea, a good way to approach it in that conversation.

786
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:09,860
And another point that we've talked about in the past, but just as a reminder, bond proceeds

787
01:13:09,860 --> 01:13:14,220
and spending the bond proceeds does not count towards the expense limitation in our budget process.

788
01:13:14,760 --> 01:13:19,540
So we could say, hey, we're going to use $6 million of road work from our existing revenues.

789
01:13:19,540 --> 01:13:31,640
And if we did take out a $20 million bond, we could budget another $20 million that next year, on top of our budget, to do as much road work as possible, without any impact to our expense or limitation.

790
01:13:31,640 --> 01:13:34,940
Can we get that road work done?

791
01:13:37,100 --> 01:13:38,860
Justin, or David?

792
01:13:41,320 --> 01:13:45,740
I was briefly absent to discuss an issue with EPCOR, catch me up real quickly.

793
01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:52,500
So if we got a bond, as Paul was saying, for $20 million to get all these substandard

794
01:13:52,500 --> 01:13:56,600
roads taken care of, can we get what's the time for him to get that work done?

795
01:13:58,940 --> 01:14:01,680
realistically probably five years plus or minus.

796
01:14:02,340 --> 01:14:03,620
It's a lot of road work.

797
01:14:04,860 --> 01:14:06,960
Just before you sit down, I had one other question.

798
01:14:07,080 --> 01:14:08,100
Mayor, if that's okay with you.

799
01:14:08,200 --> 01:14:08,400
Go ahead.

800
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:11,040
When you mentioned, you were sharing with the mayor

801
01:14:11,040 --> 01:14:13,640
the different applications and preservative applications

802
01:14:13,640 --> 01:14:17,480
and their projected lifespan, what they add to the road.

803
01:14:17,780 --> 01:14:22,080
Meaning if you did a million overlay versus a chip seal

804
01:14:22,080 --> 01:14:24,160
and a cape, they offered different things.

805
01:14:24,420 --> 01:14:26,700
I wanted to make sure, does it matter

806
01:14:26,700 --> 01:14:33,360
when they are applied, i.e., if the road is so far is so degraded to, let's just say, a 30,

807
01:14:33,740 --> 01:14:40,400
and we decided to do a chip seal in a cape. Does that still add five to seven years,

808
01:14:40,620 --> 01:14:46,340
or does it matter when it's applied? And then that's an excellent question. So the answer to that

809
01:14:46,340 --> 01:14:52,340
question is it just kicks the can down the road. It just buys us some time and a chip seal in a cape

810
01:14:52,340 --> 01:14:59,460
is such a type of treatment that it fills a lot of the voids, but a good example if you want to see one is half a trauma.

811
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:29,780
This pre-incorporation, the other was posed on the pre-incorporation. It looks wobbly and you can see reflective cracking, but it's not as bad. So that's what it would buy us as time. But it would not rejuvenate. In regards to the others, the proper treatment at the proper time does actually extend the life to the expected life expectancy of that roadway section. Thank you. I thought that I wanted to double check that because I know when we were talking about the earlier question about can we can we extend it?

812
01:15:29,780 --> 01:15:35,380
Yes, you can, but I think it matters, you know, you're timing if it's it's too far gone, you know,

813
01:15:35,440 --> 01:15:39,800
it's just a bandaid, but doing it on a timely basis is what we're trying to get to.

814
01:15:39,920 --> 01:15:45,960
Get airing our roads to that point where we can then take some of these more minimal cost measures

815
01:15:45,960 --> 01:15:49,980
to extend those as opposed to always having to reconstruct.

816
01:15:51,280 --> 01:15:56,440
I just want to add one thing, Mayor. So with the five-year timeline that Justin mentioned,

817
01:15:56,440 --> 01:16:17,780
And when you issue a bond, you have to reasonably expect to spend it within a three year period, so that would be a consideration if we couldn't do $20 million of road work additionally in the next three years, we probably want to go for a smaller bond or if we went to get the voter authorization, then issue a smaller bond to be realistic with what we can do in that three year period.

818
01:16:17,780 --> 01:16:22,940
Yeah, I agree with that and I think it would be a good test case to see how how it all worked out

819
01:16:24,020 --> 01:16:26,780
Right, so I'm not sure if this goes to David or to Justin

820
01:16:26,780 --> 01:16:34,160
but in the aggregate if we did a $20 million bond and we did our $6 million worth of work

821
01:16:34,160 --> 01:16:42,160
We got $26 million worth of ongoing work with three primary streets with between palisades found in those boulevard

822
01:16:42,160 --> 01:16:50,060
So I don't believe that you can get enough contractors to be able to do that work even in three years.

823
01:16:50,180 --> 01:16:52,660
So I think it would have been less than $22 million.

824
01:16:53,220 --> 01:16:58,880
I don't know that you could get it all done in five years because of the maintenance aspect and then the reconstruction aspect.

825
01:16:59,320 --> 01:17:03,140
So can you get it done and if so, what time period?

826
01:17:03,500 --> 01:17:05,980
And you really ought to have a time period for each of the bond amounts.

827
01:17:06,440 --> 01:17:10,060
So there are several smaller questions in there to unpack.

828
01:17:10,060 --> 01:17:23,420
In fact, the reality is there are several contractors available to do that type of work for BID, not all of them are necessarily what we would use under cooperative agreement.

829
01:17:23,920 --> 01:17:33,900
A good example is the Savoro reconstruction. We got a large number of BIDs from qualified contractors for that that were all in the ballpark.

830
01:17:33,900 --> 01:17:40,900
So, I'm confident that as each segment comes up and we set that out for bid, direct selects

831
01:17:40,900 --> 01:17:46,360
a little bit more challenging, that we would have a series of contractors and it's going

832
01:17:46,360 --> 01:17:51,320
to take a little bit more than five years and then the latter part, the maintenance would

833
01:17:51,320 --> 01:17:51,900
be separate.

834
01:17:52,520 --> 01:17:58,020
So, the contractors that would be doing the maintenance would typically have either

835
01:17:58,020 --> 01:18:02,780
a second crew if they were going to be bidding on something or they would have subcontractors

836
01:18:02,780 --> 01:18:03,700
that we've been on it.

837
01:18:03,960 --> 01:18:05,220
So we would separate the two.

838
01:18:05,540 --> 01:18:07,280
We would not have the same contractor

839
01:18:07,280 --> 01:18:10,520
or the same crews working on bond work versus maintenance.

840
01:18:10,940 --> 01:18:12,020
We would break those two apart.

841
01:18:12,440 --> 01:18:13,840
Yeah, but I hear what you're saying,

842
01:18:13,840 --> 01:18:15,520
and it can be two different entities,

843
01:18:15,520 --> 01:18:17,560
but by the same breadth, you're disrupting traffic.

844
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:20,700
Somehow, you're gonna be disrupting traffic,

845
01:18:20,700 --> 01:18:22,840
whether it's on some of the arterial streets,

846
01:18:23,020 --> 01:18:24,180
whether it's gonna be on some of the feeders,

847
01:18:24,320 --> 01:18:25,360
wherever it's going to be,

848
01:18:25,900 --> 01:18:27,000
you're gonna have a lot of,

849
01:18:27,000 --> 01:18:29,140
I would call monkeys in a barrel at one time.

850
01:18:29,800 --> 01:18:31,620
And that is gonna be a challenge

851
01:18:31,620 --> 01:18:35,400
with the feedback, the pushback that we get from even on the

852
01:18:35,400 --> 01:18:40,200
Shay, that's going wonderfully and we still get a lot of heat on that one.

853
01:18:40,340 --> 01:18:43,100
Can you imagine shutting down one of the primary streets into town

854
01:18:43,620 --> 01:18:46,340
and then more of the size streets as well?

855
01:18:47,500 --> 01:18:49,680
And to your point, and these are all valid.

856
01:18:49,880 --> 01:18:51,860
I have lived through each of those scenarios.

857
01:18:52,580 --> 01:18:56,860
So I've said this often there is no convenient time per construction

858
01:18:56,860 --> 01:18:59,340
because you cannot start and stop during seasonal.

859
01:18:59,340 --> 01:19:02,300
and it's also, and this makes people a little uncomfortable,

860
01:19:02,840 --> 01:19:05,220
Founding Hills is one of the only municipal governments

861
01:19:05,220 --> 01:19:08,540
that pays a convenience fee.

862
01:19:09,080 --> 01:19:11,320
And let me explain that in a little bit of detail.

863
01:19:12,380 --> 01:19:15,300
In order to keep shade moving in two lanes,

864
01:19:15,300 --> 01:19:17,600
we had to pay a little bit extra,

865
01:19:17,660 --> 01:19:20,240
which all of the contractors factored in there,

866
01:19:21,060 --> 01:19:24,120
knowing that they would only be able to do a part of it

867
01:19:24,120 --> 01:19:26,780
at one time instead of just reducing it to one lane.

868
01:19:26,780 --> 01:19:30,460
The same applies to our basic maintenance and treatment.

869
01:19:30,860 --> 01:19:38,960
They know that we're going to have to make accommodations to allow people to do certain things on their road or in their neighborhood.

870
01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:41,120
And there's a fee associated with that.

871
01:19:41,680 --> 01:19:51,920
If you go anywhere else in the state or the valley or even other states, you will note that Pima Road is down to one lane for 24 months.

872
01:19:52,620 --> 01:19:57,200
and this is the way it is and that's you have to live with it if you're in that

873
01:19:57,200 --> 01:20:02,540
jurisdiction. We're considerably more accommodating here and we would have to

874
01:20:02,540 --> 01:20:06,300
make those accommodations and each one of them cost a little more and it

875
01:20:06,300 --> 01:20:12,140
takes a little more time. I would say that even with the convenience fee and the

876
01:20:12,140 --> 01:20:15,900
time delays or constraints that we have we've still been able to manage relatively

877
01:20:15,900 --> 01:20:20,240
well in the 20 or so years that I've been here but yes there are logistical

878
01:20:20,240 --> 01:20:26,240
challenges. Absolutely. We certainly want to pick one section of town and disrupt all of it at

879
01:20:26,240 --> 01:20:30,740
one time because that also has a very negative impact on first responders response,

880
01:20:31,280 --> 01:20:36,740
trash collection, school bus pickup and drop off. There's a lot more impacted than just the folks

881
01:20:36,740 --> 01:20:40,840
that get up and go to work every morning. And you're going to be here for the duration? No, sir.

882
01:20:48,980 --> 01:20:49,460
So

883
01:20:53,430 --> 01:20:59,710
mayor vice mayor, I'd just like to get back to that that your earlier points and I think the

884
01:20:59,710 --> 01:21:05,450
discussion we've just been having kind of gets gets back to that. Obviously we

885
01:21:05,450 --> 01:21:11,130
don't have the ability to say okay the let's the touring 21 backlog roads okay

886
01:21:11,130 --> 01:21:15,030
they're fixed okay now at that point we can just do it right away sure we can

887
01:21:15,030 --> 01:21:19,830
we can do we can do what we need to do to those soon to be backlog roads and and

888
01:21:19,830 --> 01:21:25,070
treat those but honestly if we we figured when we did this analysis when we

889
01:21:25,070 --> 01:21:28,130
started it we said okay it's gonna take us time to get through the backlog

890
01:21:28,130 --> 01:21:31,450
We can't do them all in one year or two years or three years.

891
01:21:31,610 --> 01:21:37,610
So let's say, okay, three to five years is going to take us that much time to get through the backlog that we have right now.

892
01:21:38,830 --> 01:21:41,670
And so during that time while we're fixing the roads, we're fixing now.

893
01:21:42,070 --> 01:21:49,610
We have other roads that are entering the backlog that we want to capture and incorporate that into the bond proceeds also.

894
01:21:49,610 --> 01:21:52,250
So we can address those already in plan for that.

895
01:21:52,650 --> 01:21:56,790
So that's really the reason why we had this scenario like this,

896
01:21:56,790 --> 01:22:01,070
three to five year horizon. It's not that we're saying like you know what screw them we don't want to do

897
01:22:01,070 --> 01:22:05,690
them right now. We'll take care of our current but we have to think about those because as we're

898
01:22:05,690 --> 01:22:11,210
addressing our backlog now those are going to fall into the backlog. We just don't have the time

899
01:22:12,550 --> 01:22:17,170
to it would be great if we just like just snap our fingers and it was done but we know it's going to

900
01:22:17,170 --> 01:22:24,310
take time to address them. So anyway getting back on track. We know that

901
01:22:24,310 --> 01:22:29,770
But there is one important thing finding that we found from our analysis here.

902
01:22:31,410 --> 01:22:37,570
Probably 75.6% of our current backlog is actually associated with local residential

903
01:22:37,570 --> 01:22:38,150
streets.

904
01:22:39,270 --> 01:22:48,810
By comparison, arterial accounts for approximately 6%, collectors about 9.2%, and alleys

905
01:22:48,810 --> 01:22:52,830
about 9.3% of that current backlog reconstruction cost.

906
01:22:54,790 --> 01:22:58,510
Now because most of that backlog is on local streets, council may want to consider whether

907
01:22:58,510 --> 01:23:05,870
the program should simply follow PAPIN condition or do we want to place additional emphasis on

908
01:23:06,510 --> 01:23:07,650
certain types of roadways.

909
01:23:08,090 --> 01:23:13,150
So if we simply address backlog based on the PAPIN condition, a large portion of the reconstruction

910
01:23:13,150 --> 01:23:17,850
constructed reconstruction program that we're going to be working on will naturally occur

911
01:23:17,850 --> 01:23:21,410
on the neighborhood streets because that's where most of the existing backlog is.

912
01:23:22,450 --> 01:23:30,310
Alternatively, Council could direct us to evaluate prioritization based on roadway classification

913
01:23:30,990 --> 01:23:34,770
or geographic distribution or some other combination of factors.

914
01:23:35,830 --> 01:23:41,030
But if Council is interested, we can also model alternative funding horizons such as seven

915
01:23:41,030 --> 01:23:47,470
year or ten-year scenarios in addition to the five-year estimate that we're showing here.

916
01:23:48,790 --> 01:23:51,270
And again, I want to iterate just like Paul did.

917
01:23:51,750 --> 01:23:54,090
These are planning-level estimates, right?

918
01:23:54,230 --> 01:23:55,530
They're not construction bids.

919
01:23:56,530 --> 01:24:02,290
We don't have a final project list, but if a council would direct us to proceed, we would

920
01:24:02,290 --> 01:24:03,750
refine the modeling costs, right?

921
01:24:03,830 --> 01:24:10,230
We would sequence those, sequence the roadway reconstructions before returning with any kind

922
01:24:10,230 --> 01:24:10,730
a recommendation.

923
01:24:14,750 --> 01:24:15,850
Mr. Jammer? Yes.

924
01:24:16,710 --> 01:24:23,590
Let me just discuss the addressing like for $20.1 million the backlog for and using

925
01:24:23,590 --> 01:24:31,270
the bond for that. Yes. Okay. So instead of like saying payment condition or certain

926
01:24:31,270 --> 01:24:38,430
types and certain types of roads. So if council decides to move forward with this, but I'm

927
01:24:38,430 --> 01:24:43,490
hearing and maybe I'm not hearing it all 100% is that we really want to address the backlog

928
01:24:43,490 --> 01:24:47,470
because that's the problem and the drain that's happening and it's getting worse and

929
01:24:47,470 --> 01:24:53,490
worse and worse and they're getting below 40 etc and so that's well because we're always

930
01:24:53,490 --> 01:24:58,310
going to be playing catch up no matter what we do even if we had enough money we're still

931
01:24:58,310 --> 01:25:02,410
going to be playing catch up on the roads are still going to deteriorate so what we want

932
01:25:02,410 --> 01:25:07,630
to do is best use of funds best use of funds it sounds to me like it's addressing the backlog

933
01:25:07,630 --> 01:25:13,530
Because that's the problem and then using the budget funds to maintain, you know, other more

934
01:25:14,410 --> 01:25:20,610
You know higher rated streets, etc. Correct. Yes, Mayor councilmember McMahon. Thank you. That is correct

935
01:25:20,610 --> 01:25:26,130
That's correct and what I was talking about was how we address the backlog. Do we want to address it just by?

936
01:25:26,890 --> 01:25:28,530
Do we want to prioritize them by

937
01:25:29,410 --> 01:25:31,190
The type road road reclassification

938
01:25:31,830 --> 01:25:36,770
Or do we want to take care of everything in the north northeast or the northwest first or right?

939
01:25:36,770 --> 01:25:40,990
It's just different options of how to approach addressing the backlog.

940
01:25:41,510 --> 01:25:47,790
Right, but in the prior page, it let it say that the largest percentage was the general roadways,

941
01:25:47,970 --> 01:25:52,610
like the residential ones, that really are what our residents are complaining about,

942
01:25:52,910 --> 01:25:55,950
you know, like kings or offshoots and things like that.

943
01:25:56,630 --> 01:26:03,050
So in looking at that particular diagram you had, you know, selecting that highest percentage area,

944
01:26:03,050 --> 01:26:07,730
those streets might be the best use for the bond if this moves forward at all.

945
01:26:08,090 --> 01:26:08,570
Thank you.

946
01:26:09,010 --> 01:26:09,870
Thank you.

947
01:26:10,870 --> 01:26:11,370
Hi.

948
01:26:14,850 --> 01:26:16,910
So because this is for discussion.

949
01:26:17,810 --> 01:26:20,830
And I know we're not all the way there yet we have a ways to go today.

950
01:26:21,270 --> 01:26:29,510
But I came on this council saying never no way a bond for roads until I see all these details.

951
01:26:29,510 --> 01:26:36,210
and then I said not residential roads because not everybody's on them just the

952
01:26:36,210 --> 01:26:43,650
main arterial and feeder roads but I see there's the big need in the

953
01:26:43,650 --> 01:26:52,350
residential roads so my what I will be suggesting is that we do the 6% of the

954
01:26:52,350 --> 01:26:57,310
arterial roads and the 9.2% of collector roads and what we need to do on the

955
01:26:57,310 --> 01:27:04,610
local roads as well with that but we'll talk about how we do the bonding down the road but I

956
01:27:04,610 --> 01:27:10,390
like the idea of Paul saying if we have to spend it within three years you know we talked about

957
01:27:10,390 --> 01:27:20,330
which what I'd like you to look into is the 11 million that 11 million dollar bond for 10 years

958
01:27:20,330 --> 01:27:24,510
but if there's a way to do two of them I don't know how you do that because even the percentage

959
01:27:24,510 --> 01:27:32,190
when we do a 20-year loan, we're only putting $6.2 on every dollar into the road the

960
01:27:32,190 --> 01:27:39,270
rest goes to the bank. If we're doing a 10-year loan or bond, $0.77 goes to the

961
01:27:39,270 --> 01:27:43,230
road. This is just figures there and the rest goes to the bank and I'd like to

962
01:27:43,230 --> 01:27:47,830
see more of it go to the roads than to the making the banks rich. So if you're

963
01:27:47,830 --> 01:27:55,730
looking into it. Paul, I'd like you to figure that out for us. That's possible. I think you said we,

964
01:27:55,910 --> 01:28:03,170
you know, approving the 20 million, but it would be laid out, you know, two different ways about

965
01:28:03,170 --> 01:28:11,690
how that works. But yeah, so mayor, vice mayor, so we provided in the options and the survey, we provided

966
01:28:11,690 --> 01:28:17,070
those options to the survey respondents, and then we provided some, you know, estimates to the council as

967
01:28:17,070 --> 01:28:22,870
well. One of the options is the $11 million and over 10 year repayment period. And if

968
01:28:22,870 --> 01:28:27,290
that's something that we can get a majority discussion on, then we could definitely prepare

969
01:28:27,290 --> 01:28:30,690
that or if it's multiple scenarios that you're interested in, we can definitely do that.

970
01:28:31,290 --> 01:28:35,870
$11 million over 10 million or 10 year repayment period is pretty typical. You could extend

971
01:28:35,870 --> 01:28:39,550
it, but to your point you would be paying more interest over the life of the repayment.

972
01:28:39,970 --> 01:28:46,130
You could, we could bring you a five year repayment period scenario. That's what we did

973
01:28:46,130 --> 01:28:54,010
the last one, you're going to pay less interest in the five years than the 10 years but on the payment

974
01:28:54,010 --> 01:29:00,630
on the taxes for the taxpayer will go up per year because of you can't. Oh, when you get this

975
01:29:00,630 --> 01:29:05,790
second part, just but if we can't, if it has to be done within three years and we can't do it within

976
01:29:05,790 --> 01:29:13,890
three years, why would we take out a pond if we can't, what happens there, that's my question there

977
01:29:13,890 --> 01:29:18,650
too. And the other thing which I'm I want the general public to know when we're

978
01:29:18,650 --> 01:29:26,070
talking about determining what goes on your taxes. The value of your home is a lot

979
01:29:26,070 --> 01:29:32,890
less than what your house sells for. So a lot of us do fall within the range of

980
01:29:32,890 --> 01:29:39,810
the which you were calculating these numbers on is around 500,000. As the what

981
01:29:39,810 --> 01:29:42,810
you caught the limited property value or LPV?

982
01:29:43,930 --> 01:29:48,110
Yes, so I didn't really look at that before.

983
01:29:49,210 --> 01:29:51,390
Yeah, no problem. I can state it.

984
01:29:51,530 --> 01:29:54,650
So it's very similar to what we presented in February,

985
01:29:55,010 --> 01:29:58,430
just kind of looking at the average taxpayer or resident

986
01:29:58,430 --> 01:29:59,370
that owns a home.

987
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:05,280
In Falon Hills, it's pretty close. It's an estimate, but it's pretty close. In that $11 million

988
01:30:05,280 --> 01:30:12,460
scenario over a 10-year repayment period, it would be about $110 a year of secondary property

989
01:30:12,460 --> 01:30:16,200
taxes. That's the starting point. It could slightly go down year to year, depending on

990
01:30:16,200 --> 01:30:21,220
the development in the town and things like that. But that's an estimate of about how much

991
01:30:21,220 --> 01:30:26,840
it would impact. And commercial properties and landlords, you know,

992
01:30:26,840 --> 01:30:29,860
with apartments and stuff, they're paying property tax, too, aren't they?

993
01:30:30,300 --> 01:30:31,480
Is it at a different rate?

994
01:30:31,660 --> 01:30:35,280
It would be paying towards the bonds besides just the residents?

995
01:30:35,780 --> 01:30:39,220
It's based on the limited property value based on the assessor's assessment.

996
01:30:39,400 --> 01:30:43,080
So if there's an assessment by the assessor and there's a limited property value

997
01:30:43,620 --> 01:30:49,120
on the building or property in town, yes, the tax would be spread out or levied.

998
01:30:49,280 --> 01:30:50,740
So it's not just on us residents?

999
01:30:52,380 --> 01:30:53,820
Well, commercial buildings as well.

1000
01:30:53,820 --> 01:31:01,920
Yeah, any tax pair is on villains in town that's the levy would go but is but is commercial is helping to pay towards the bond is what I'm saying

1001
01:31:03,340 --> 01:31:06,740
Yes, right, okay

1002
01:31:08,720 --> 01:31:15,660
So that's only a hundred nine dollars is fourteen dollars and before dollars and seventeen cents a month

1003
01:31:16,500 --> 01:31:17,420
Not too bad

1004
01:31:19,510 --> 01:31:22,370
Does everybody hear that out there? It's why I support bonds now

1005
01:31:24,230 --> 01:31:24,670
Maybe

1006
01:31:31,170 --> 01:31:40,110
I said it's $109 a year, works out to $4.17 a month, but you pay most of us, well I think

1007
01:31:40,110 --> 01:31:42,770
I do anyway, I pay mine twice a year.

1008
01:31:43,090 --> 01:31:46,990
If you have it on your mortgage, it's not going to be very much of an increase.

1009
01:31:46,990 --> 01:31:48,150
Okay,

1010
01:31:57,400 --> 01:32:04,500
so just to summarize, and just to be clear, we are looking, staff is looking

1011
01:32:04,500 --> 01:32:11,280
for direction tonight or today, but we're not asking council to, again,

1012
01:32:11,420 --> 01:32:17,160
select the final bond amount. The first question is simply, does council

1013
01:32:17,160 --> 01:32:22,520
want staff to continue evaluating a potential railway bond? And if so, we

1014
01:32:22,520 --> 01:32:28,500
like some guidance on the time horizon should be model of five-year program as we discussed

1015
01:32:28,500 --> 01:32:34,080
here today or would you like us to develop a seven-year and or even ten-year alternative.

1016
01:32:35,020 --> 01:32:40,220
And finally does council want us to evaluate different prioritization strategies. For

1017
01:32:40,220 --> 01:32:45,700
example, whether materials, collectors or local streets should receive priority versus addressing

1018
01:32:45,700 --> 01:32:51,520
the backlog just primarily based on the condition basis or a married basis and when it should

1019
01:32:51,520 --> 01:32:53,180
should be done when it's next up in the queue.

1020
01:32:54,540 --> 01:32:55,800
And if Council wants us to move forward,

1021
01:32:56,180 --> 01:32:57,280
staff would take that direction

1022
01:32:57,280 --> 01:32:59,820
and we'll further develop the scenarios and return

1023
01:33:00,620 --> 01:33:04,080
in early 2027 with some refined costs,

1024
01:33:04,600 --> 01:33:05,700
alternatives and recommendations.

1025
01:33:06,580 --> 01:33:08,680
So in essence, what we're seeking tonight or today

1026
01:33:09,280 --> 01:33:12,840
is just enough policy direction to know

1027
01:33:12,840 --> 01:33:15,120
what alternatives Council would like us to come back with.

1028
01:33:16,040 --> 01:33:19,660
And with that, that concludes the public works portion

1029
01:33:19,660 --> 01:33:24,920
of the presentation, and we'd be happy to answer any questions about paper and conditions,

1030
01:33:26,100 --> 01:33:30,860
the backlog, estimates, the treatment strategies, or potential scenarios.

1031
01:33:31,320 --> 01:33:37,700
More importantly, we're interested in council's thoughts on whether you would like us to

1032
01:33:37,700 --> 01:33:41,600
continue with this analysis, and if so, what type of scenarios and priorities would you like

1033
01:33:41,600 --> 01:33:42,220
us to bring back?

1034
01:33:42,780 --> 01:33:46,580
So with that, we have a question.

1035
01:33:47,720 --> 01:33:47,820
Thank you.

1036
01:33:47,820 --> 01:33:55,880
The capital well is not here, but we do have Paul, myself, and Jeff Pierce isn't here, so it's just the Paul and Dave show.

1037
01:33:56,700 --> 01:33:57,380
Thank you.

1038
01:33:58,340 --> 01:34:04,360
If you go back to slide, and you said five years or whatever, there's no amount of money in this.

1039
01:34:05,380 --> 01:34:10,340
So I think part of the, in looking at this, and looking at what Paul gave us,

1040
01:34:10,660 --> 01:34:13,580
looking at the backlog at 20 million, etc.

1041
01:34:13,580 --> 01:34:39,900
then I think that maybe if we direct them to take a look at basically, I think all of this is going to be included if we decide on a bond, etc. in order to do the right strategy and stuff because then you can depending upon the roads or what is chosen, then that will determine the amount of money as well in the long run.

1042
01:34:39,900 --> 01:35:00,300
Yes, Mayor, Councilmember, so what we're doing is we're really going to dive down on the actual analysis on the real numbers and we're going to come back with an actual list of roadways and we can actually come back with projected cost estimates and actually get some vids on those to see what we're really up against.

1043
01:35:00,300 --> 01:35:04,200
So, your presentation, thank you for your presentation.

1044
01:35:05,020 --> 01:35:10,940
I think it's been very well written and it explained concisely what we're looking at.

1045
01:35:11,680 --> 01:35:17,480
And you summed it up very well, request for direction, but I kind of think, and maybe

1046
01:35:17,480 --> 01:35:22,260
I'm wrong, that if we direct them to continue to do this, it's really going to have to take

1047
01:35:22,260 --> 01:35:23,580
into all that consideration.

1048
01:35:23,580 --> 01:35:31,500
So an educated, a better educated decision can be made later on with more, not more succinct

1049
01:35:31,500 --> 01:35:35,980
but more directive information as far as the condition of the roads, et cetera.

1050
01:35:36,500 --> 01:35:41,960
So that's my thinking on it, and thank you both for your presentation, I appreciate it.

1051
01:35:43,480 --> 01:35:48,800
Just to chime in on what Councilmember McVan just said, there's a little bit of the information

1052
01:35:48,800 --> 01:35:50,460
that we won't be able to provide you.

1053
01:35:50,460 --> 01:35:55,620
We won't have a condition assessment done again before a decision has to be made.

1054
01:35:56,000 --> 01:36:01,100
We're actually going the other way around and asking to know what your temperature check is on an amount.

1055
01:36:01,400 --> 01:36:12,560
Not us coming back and saying we need this because really it's about a tolerance level from this council of what number can, does this council support?

1056
01:36:13,040 --> 01:36:19,180
And if it's 11 million, if it's 20 million, whatever that is, we can run the scenarios based on those numbers.

1057
01:36:19,740 --> 01:36:25,060
but ultimately it's about what you guys would like to see us come back with.

1058
01:36:25,280 --> 01:36:28,860
That's what we're trying, we're looking for you guys to put those guardrails in parameters

1059
01:36:28,860 --> 01:36:33,040
so that we come back with something that's viable, not something that we come back in,

1060
01:36:33,260 --> 01:36:35,200
the council goes where the heck did this come from?

1061
01:36:36,260 --> 01:36:39,420
Right, but to me, and maybe I'm wrong again, I don't know.

1062
01:36:39,600 --> 01:36:43,520
I mean, I've heard that we really want to address the backlog, but that's really been the problem.

1063
01:36:43,940 --> 01:36:46,340
It's been the big drain about everything

1064
01:36:46,340 --> 01:36:51,180
everything and what's in the back everybody's mind all the time and it's getting worse and

1065
01:36:51,180 --> 01:36:58,500
as it gets worse it gets more expensive so yeah I'm for looking at the backlog and looking

1066
01:36:58,500 --> 01:37:00,800
at moving forward with that.

1067
01:37:05,160 --> 01:37:12,740
So Paul where did we get the 11 on the 22 million oh so mayor council member we were providing

1068
01:37:12,740 --> 01:37:17,580
just examples it was an easy example not necessarily us recommending that we should be arbitrary

1069
01:37:17,580 --> 01:37:18,040
numbers.

1070
01:37:18,040 --> 01:37:22,500
Well, not necessarily. We looked at Founhall's Boulevard and Palisades. Boulevard, they're

1071
01:37:22,500 --> 01:37:28,140
similar in size. We got a quote from one of our current contractors. We had some contingency

1072
01:37:28,140 --> 01:37:32,400
to that to give you a conservative estimate. That's where we got the $11 million. For the

1073
01:37:32,400 --> 01:37:35,340
last time we talked about it, we were talking about Palisades and Founhall's Boulevard.

1074
01:37:36,820 --> 01:37:40,860
The conversation has shifted a little bit to more like, hey, should we look at the backlog?

1075
01:37:41,480 --> 01:37:45,000
We can always go back and look at those. But it was kind of interesting to see in the data

1076
01:37:45,000 --> 01:37:49,240
that there are certain portions of those roads that are in really bad condition but there are

1077
01:37:49,240 --> 01:37:55,740
portions of those roads that are in pretty good condition. So, you know, it's kind of a hard

1078
01:37:55,740 --> 01:38:00,640
decision, it's more of a policy decision, do we want to go down that road and make it easier

1079
01:38:00,640 --> 01:38:07,140
to just issue a bond unless we do a policies boulevard or found hills boulevard or do we want to address

1080
01:38:07,140 --> 01:38:11,740
what's currently in the backlog based on the data which is mainly our side streets, our residential

1081
01:38:11,740 --> 01:38:17,560
roads. I think looking at it, King Street's a great example because half of that road is in good

1082
01:38:17,560 --> 01:38:22,300
shape and half of its fallen apart. So a good example. But I think that if I looked at it and I

1083
01:38:22,300 --> 01:38:29,140
said, I took the arterial, a collector, the locals, and in aggregate, that's about $12 million.

1084
01:38:30,400 --> 01:38:34,340
It's pretty straightforward there. But on the other hand, you're going to have a continued

1085
01:38:34,340 --> 01:38:38,440
degradation of the streets over the next year to two years. By the time we put this all together.

1086
01:38:38,440 --> 01:38:43,660
right so you're going to have some more that you're going to have to anticipate and I don't want to go back to the public again

1087
01:38:43,660 --> 01:38:52,880
and say we need more money. So I'd be a supporter of the $20 million for a 10-year time frame just to give you some idea of

1088
01:38:52,880 --> 01:39:03,940
guidance where I would fall. Okay so 20 rather than 22 as the original example. Okay but you're interested in more of a

1089
01:39:03,940 --> 01:39:07,320
a shorter repayment period, like a 10 year repayment period for something like that.

1090
01:39:07,640 --> 01:39:18,800
Yeah, I don't think that the $219 based upon the option three is that painful.

1091
01:39:19,760 --> 01:39:25,960
So even if it goes to $400 a year, you're talking about less than $50 a month.

1092
01:39:26,640 --> 01:39:28,160
So I don't go to Starbucks once a week.

1093
01:39:33,980 --> 01:39:58,140
So just to reiterate, and I want to know if I was clear before, I would like to see that we do the bond that's the 20 million that would be taking care of all the back load, back load, back log, sorry, it's a load isn't, it's a backlog and my calculation on that one is, would you estimate it would be, it's the, it's like $18 a month.

1094
01:39:58,720 --> 01:40:12,680
If we're thinking of that, that would be people that are on their mortgages or it's the what was it here at the 10 years at the 10 years would be about $219 a year.

1095
01:40:13,540 --> 01:40:24,300
So and then in the meantime, the monies that we do, I want us to continue to pull together as much as we can to take care of what we have now and we might be able to get some reconstruction.

1096
01:40:24,300 --> 01:40:25,260
instruction, I don't know.

1097
01:40:25,900 --> 01:40:30,040
I need capital improvement projects or any,

1098
01:40:30,440 --> 01:40:31,820
did I make that clear?

1099
01:40:32,300 --> 01:40:33,100
Am I okay?

1100
01:40:33,400 --> 01:40:33,560
Okay.

1101
01:40:34,160 --> 01:40:35,820
So by 20 million or so.

1102
01:40:36,020 --> 01:40:36,600
But 10 years.

1103
01:40:36,960 --> 01:40:37,200
But 10 years.

1104
01:40:37,400 --> 01:40:38,360
10 year repayment period.

1105
01:40:38,440 --> 01:40:41,760
I want more of the money to go to the roads instead of paid an interest.

1106
01:40:42,140 --> 01:40:42,340
Okay.

1107
01:40:42,660 --> 01:40:45,000
We don't want to make the banks richer than they need to be.

1108
01:40:45,080 --> 01:40:48,020
We want to make the town richer with the nice roads.

1109
01:40:49,120 --> 01:40:51,540
My only concern is can we get the work done

1110
01:40:52,220 --> 01:40:53,220
taking $20 million.

1111
01:40:54,080 --> 01:40:59,800
So I think to Justin's point earlier, Mayor, we could, if that's the route you want to go,

1112
01:41:00,100 --> 01:41:04,480
what we would do is ask the voters to authorize us to do 20 or 20 million of bonds and probably

1113
01:41:04,480 --> 01:41:10,140
issue an initial bond to do three years with the road work, whether that's $10 million, $11 million, $12 million,

1114
01:41:11,040 --> 01:41:12,340
and we'll make that decision at that point.

1115
01:41:12,440 --> 01:41:20,160
Then we come back, we go out and do the process to find the best option for a bond for the town and we bring it back to the council.

1116
01:41:20,160 --> 01:41:23,700
But first, we need that voter authorization to do that.

1117
01:41:25,380 --> 01:41:26,300
Okay, good.

1118
01:41:28,580 --> 01:41:32,740
So I think you have some direction if I'm not mistaken, or do we?

1119
01:41:33,180 --> 01:41:40,200
Right now, I've heard definitively from the vice mayor, from Councilman Watts, and that's three.

1120
01:41:40,480 --> 01:41:43,100
I'd like to hear from the other two up here if possible.

1121
01:41:43,420 --> 01:41:44,380
Oh, I'm all in.

1122
01:41:44,700 --> 01:41:44,900
Okay.

1123
01:41:44,900 --> 01:41:46,220
Yeah, yeah,

1124
01:41:53,900 --> 01:41:59,360
yeah, I'm with my colleagues on this one I do prefer the shorter payment the 10 year

1125
01:41:59,360 --> 01:42:03,820
So we get more bang for our buck. I think less of the banks was my colleague stated and

1126
01:42:04,520 --> 01:42:09,120
As far as palisades and fountain hills boulevard, you know, we're gonna get some if we have more patients

1127
01:42:09,120 --> 01:42:13,240
We're gonna get county money from that like 10 years or whatever 13 years from now

1128
01:42:13,240 --> 01:42:19,600
So I think we should put those projects off with this bond money and go for the

1129
01:42:19,600 --> 01:42:25,820
the under 40, the backlog, the people in our residential neighborhoods that have been waiting for this for so long.

1130
01:42:26,500 --> 01:42:31,840
And so I would like to hire figure so we can just really tackle this from once and for all.

1131
01:42:32,440 --> 01:42:41,180
And if the voters want to have done, this is a chance to get it done and done right, and not just half measures, so yeah, I can curve.

1132
01:42:44,800 --> 01:42:49,940
I'm good with the 22 because even the million dollar difference by the time this is done it's

1133
01:42:49,940 --> 01:42:56,440
going to increase and we'll if we and it's just probably just part of it and if that's

1134
01:42:56,440 --> 01:42:59,240
what the estimate is I'm for doing it that way.

1135
01:43:00,900 --> 01:43:08,130
So it sounds like we can prepare some scenarios specifically with our municipal advisor.

1136
01:43:08,370 --> 01:43:12,330
Is there any other scenario that the council would like to see when we bring it back or it

1137
01:43:12,330 --> 01:43:15,170
It sounds like we're all pretty set on the $20, $22 million

1138
01:43:15,170 --> 01:43:15,630
number.

1139
01:43:16,990 --> 01:43:17,170
OK.

1140
01:43:18,450 --> 01:43:19,050
All right.

1141
01:43:21,440 --> 01:43:23,520
I think that leads us, unless there's any other final questions.

1142
01:43:23,960 --> 01:43:24,460
I think we are.

1143
01:43:25,100 --> 01:43:25,700
We've got a direction.

1144
01:43:27,420 --> 01:43:28,280
Thank you, everybody.

1145
01:43:29,440 --> 01:43:30,000
Thank you.