[This transcript was generated automatically from audio using AI and hasn't been reviewed by a person -- it can contain mistakes, including plausible-sounding sentences that were never actually said. Treat it as a starting point, not a verbatim record.]

[0:03] Okay, no intro video tonight. We're broken, but we'll get it fixed. And we're going to call this work session of April 23rd, 2024 to order. And here's the roll call, Alderman Barnhill, Alderman Blanton, Alderman Caesar, Alderman Peterson, Alderman Burger, Vice Mayor Brown, absent Alderman Pots, present, and Alderman Baggett, present. Okay. And the mayor's here too. So I do have one
[0:33] speaker card I have Stephanie Tillerson that wants to make some comments and you have
[0:38] two minutes.
[0:39] Just please come up and turn the microphone on and we're all ears and
[0:50] you'll pull that
[0:50] down.
[0:51] There you go.
[0:52] You've done this many times, I believe.
[0:54] No, this is my first time actually, but thank you.
[0:58] Is it on?
[0:58] Yeah.
[0:59] Okay.
[1:00] So I wanted to raise a concern.
[1:02] I'd actually spoke to Alderman Burger this morning about it.
[1:05] It's regarding Murphy's Bar Road.
[1:07] I realize it's a state road, but there's a certain stretch between the, with the interstate
[1:15] overpasses to Royal Oak's Boulevard, that small stretch there.
[1:21] And the road markings in the center, it's a painted yellow island with diagonal markings.
[1:28] On any given day, I travel that road every day, people will pull in there so they can get
[1:33] to hearties or Kentucky Fried Chicken or whatever the case may be.
[1:38] And it's backing up traffic, which Murphy's Barrett is already a mess as it is.
[1:45] And it's also really dangerous.
[1:47] People will stop, there's three lanes, and people will stop.
[1:51] The first lane will stop, the middle lane will stop to let them by, and the outside lane
[1:55] people will go, which I've been caught in that situation before where I'm coming through.
[1:59] And someone's cutting across, so it's dangerous.
[2:02] And I just wondered if there might be something that the state in the city can do.
[2:08] It seems like a little raised concrete island, something would alleviate that.
[2:15] On other stretches of Murphy's Barrow, there are little raised islands.
[2:19] And so that's the concern I wanted to raise.
[2:22] We appreciate you bringing that attention.
[2:26] I have engineers that are all ears and I think we're pretty familiar with what you're describing.
[2:31] Yes. Okay. Well, Stephanie, I just want to say thanks for calling me this morning and coming
[2:35] tonight. I'm sorry to get the chance to say hi before but good to meet you and we all
[2:41] a lot of us travel that route all the time and understand what you're saying. So, absolutely,
[2:46] we need to look into that. Okay. All right. Thanks. Thank you, Stephanie. Okay. We're going
[2:51] to United Way of Greater National Presentation and Courtney Barler is here and I know Eric's
[2:59] been heavily involved with the United Ways?
[3:01] Yeah, I'll just say a couple words of introduction for Courtney.
[3:04] And just we wanted to provide just a brief overview and update to the board about the
[3:08] fine work that United Way of Greater Nashville is doing, how it has really expanded its impact
[3:14] to truly be a regional force for good across the region, working with over 100 different
[3:20] agencies in nine different counties in our region.
[3:23] And it wasn't too long ago that all that was fragmented and that has really been unified
[3:28] provide and brings more leverage of impact to help those in greatest need.
[3:32] So I want to give Courtney a chance to talk a little bit about that and just share that
[3:36] information with you tonight.
[3:37] Thank you Courtney.
[3:38] Yes.
[3:39] Thank you Eric.
[3:40] I'm Courtney Barler.
[3:41] I'm the Chief Development Officer for United Way of Greater Nashville.
[3:43] And as Eric mentioned, that means I get to serve in nine counties across middle Tennessee
[3:48] and I lead all the fundraising efforts.
[3:50] But I have to say this county is the nearest and nearest to my heart.
[3:54] actually grew up down here in Franklin and I am married to a Franklin native so we are like
[3:59] the rarest of unicorns who have met up but we grew up in the school system down here we both
[4:04] went to sentennial high school my mom taught it freedom middle school for many years oh hey there
[4:08] you go we are coping with the fact that we now live in Brentwood so let's just keep that here that we
[4:14] are not technically in city Franklin limits right now thank you thank you so but really I'm so proud
[4:20] to be able to work in this role to fundraise for the amazing work that we do at United Way of
[4:24] Greater Nashville. Over the past two years, we have invested $3.6 million in to nonprofit agencies
[4:30] here in Williamson County. It's about 1.8 million every single year. And a lot of those are agencies
[4:36] right here in Franklin that I know from growing up here. Many of you know that are I think very
[4:40] beloved that were started here and grown here and serve our communities so well. Places like bridges,
[4:45] high hopes, hard bargain, community childcare center, one-gen way, the arc, I think just agencies that are so well known by the Franklin community that are truly meeting people where they are and filling needs, everything from basic needs to education, to mental health, anything to kind of help make an individual or a family full and able to thrive and whatever they're doing.
[5:09] In addition to these, I think really homegrown Franklin agencies, we also fund a lot of agencies
[5:14] that work across our footprints, like the American Red Cross, the Boys and Girls Club,
[5:18] the Boy Scouts.
[5:20] So just know that any investment in United Way is hitting a lot of different nonprofits,
[5:25] those that are big, those that are small, but all that are doing really, really wonderful
[5:29] work.
[5:29] And that's truly what our mission is, is to make sure in every community that we serve, that
[5:33] really wonderful work can happen, and that we're supporting these nonprofits.
[5:35] profits. A couple of numbers specific to Williamson County. Last year, we met the basic
[5:41] needs of over 137,000 people here in Williamson County under 137,000. I thought I'm
[5:46] this my numbers there. 137,000. And those basic needs, anything from a food box to a lot
[5:53] of rent utilities assistance to a night in a shelter. Really think about those very basic
[5:58] building blocks that we all need. And you all know so well that if we don't have our basic
[6:02] needs met, we can't do anything else. A child can't go to school and learn if they're hungry.
[6:07] They can't go to school and learn if they don't have a roof over their head. So that's a big piece
[6:10] of the work that we do mainly through our 2-1-1 helpline. Another piece of information that we're so
[6:15] proud of is the continued work of our Raise Your Hand program, which is a tutoring program that was
[6:19] started right here in Williamson County. We worked closely with Williamson County Schools and Franklin
[6:24] Special School District to bring in tutors, especially for reading a math. So for any student that
[6:28] maybe falling behind and reading your math.
[6:31] Our schools do an amazing job.
[6:33] I got to be the product of those schools.
[6:34] I know I have a child in those schools,
[6:36] but we all know that sometimes children
[6:38] just need a little bit more.
[6:39] They need a little more focus one of those areas.
[6:41] And last year, almost 1200 students
[6:43] saw some sort of gain in either reading proficiency
[6:46] or math proficiency.
[6:48] And we know that those are so critical
[6:49] to the rest of life's success
[6:52] is making sure we have those really basic
[6:53] building blocks on the education side.
[6:55] So just another really amazing piece of work.
[6:57] But I think the most important part, so those are really, really big numbers, is that
[7:01] when people support United Way, whether it's the City of Franklin through the annual
[7:05] giving campaign, individual donors down here in Franklin, companies in Franklin, meals
[7:10] on wheels are getting delivered, people have a roof over their heads, children have their
[7:14] needs met, it's all of the things people need to thrive and that is truly our end goal and
[7:18] all of you are really helping to make that happen.
[7:20] So we're grateful for the partnership, we're grateful to Eric for his service on our board
[7:24] of trustees that are such a great guiding force for us and the huge expansion we've seen
[7:30] over the past couple of years. So thank you, Eric. And I have to put in a plug too, because
[7:34] tomorrow night we are hosting a fundraising event right around the corner at the Hart fifth
[7:37] hotel. So we'll be right back down here as our annual Patricia Hart Society fundraiser.
[7:42] And Patricia Hart was a Williamson County resident long time contributor to United Way and in
[7:47] her honor. We have the Patricia Hart Society. And all the funds from that event go to our early
[7:51] literacy programs. So if you're available we'd love to have you if this year maybe next year as well.
[7:56] So thank you to all of you. Thank you for supporting us as well.
[8:00] Great. Thank you. You had your way to turn that off. Okay. Thank you Courtney.
[8:11] Now we have Sean Turner that's going to come up and give us the Williamson County Schools Work
[8:15] Base Learning Program presentation.
[8:19] We had a great opportunity over this past school year,
[8:22] the school year that's starting to wind down to have a Williamson County student, Franklin
[8:27] high school student, be part of our team. And we want to give him an opportunity to talk
[8:31] a little bit about that experience with you.
[8:34] Thank you. Good evening, Mayor Alderman. I'll just lead in, this is Sean Turner, that
[8:42] high school student from Franklin High, that is participating in the Williamson County
[8:47] work-based learning program, and it was about a year ago that Tabitha Paul and myself reached out to Williamson County about their work-based learning program, because I knew that it's a very popular program across the country to try to engage in Enlightenite High School students as they look to pursue further education or a career path that doesn't require formal education.
[9:14] So, we were able to get contacted, again, Tabitha played a big role in that with the program coordinator who's Kimberly Turner.
[9:24] Today, she was unable to join us and Sean's instructor for the architecture and engineering program, Ashain McNeil.
[9:35] So Sean's going to share his experience a little bit about the program and then a couple
[9:42] projects that he's been assigned this far.
[9:46] Thank you, Vernon.
[9:47] As he stated, my name is Sean Turner, I'm a senior at Franklin High School and I'll be attending
[9:51] the University of Alabama Huntsville for Civil Engineering this fall.
[9:55] I started with work-based learning this past August with the city and I'm here to explain
[10:01] a little bit about what that entails.
[10:02] The work-based learning program is an opportunity for high school students to gain real-world experience in the workplace while earning high school credit.
[10:13] Students will go to their job and work as normal.
[10:16] We have a work-based learning coordinator. Mine is Miss Taylor. They will distribute assignments to the students.
[10:22] But these assignments will not affect our work that I do here at the city. They will just be doing our own time.
[10:28] The program will cause a minimum of five hours a week, and it runs through the school year, August to May, but I do intend on
[10:35] interning with them over the summer.
[10:41] Throughout my time with the City of Franklin, I have shadowed in various departments and many divisions such as engineering, planning, building neighborhood services, learning what they do, why they do it, and how they do it, giving me the ins and outs of public government.
[10:56] It's actually encouraged me to pursue it in college as my minor for public affairs, but I've
[11:02] also spent time in engineering designing signage plans for roads, auto turn for garbage trucks
[11:06] and fire trucks. I've got an act relating with plethora job sites here throughout the city
[11:11] and developments, and most recently I have done surveying of the encroachments in the right of
[11:16] for Vernon.
[11:26] This project entailed me surveying Main Street for the memorial
[11:32] benches where they're at, who they're dedicated to, so we have a map of that.
[11:35] Outside dining, trash cans, lamppost, the historic sign, Civil War, and we, Vernon,
[11:44] and we'll speak to you about how this benefits the city and how we can use it.
[11:48] Thank you, Sean.
[11:50] And this particular exercise, you may not realize, but
[11:54] between myself, Mark Hilfey and Heidi Hood, from the Heritage Foundation,
[11:59] I would say conservatively that twice a month receive calls for people that want to
[12:08] purchase and put a name blank on a memorial bench.
[12:12] and presently we've been saying that we're going to work on a policy because what we've found
[12:19] is those benches once their purchase become very personal to those families that dedicate them
[12:26] and having to move them or relocate them without a history of who purchase them and who to contact
[12:33] in the family we want to avoid. So that's the reason to get Sean started on this and
[12:41] and we'll expand on that in the future.
[12:44] But with that, I don't know,
[12:46] Paul or Tabitha have anything else,
[12:48] but certainly, if you have any questions for Sean,
[12:50] he's an answer to that.
[12:54] Sean's been a great addition to our team
[12:55] and he just jumped in there and starting to learn a lot
[12:58] and already helping with some production stuff,
[13:01] signage and inventors, so.
[13:05] Go ahead, Oliver, go ahead.
[13:07] So, thank you for helping us.
[13:09] I think it's great to bring some youth into the mix
[13:11] of our senior advisors and our team. Just curious, I love that you're going into engineering.
[13:19] Has this experience made you want to go to municipality or the private sector? How is it swayed
[13:25] your end vision for where you want to be with that engineering degree? It swayed my vision towards
[13:32] the public sector quite a lot as I've changed my, I want a minor in public affairs as well, so
[13:38] I would plan on returning here this private sector.
[13:43] I've learned that the private sector sometimes limits and can be demanding at times.
[13:49] Oh, exactly.
[13:50] Don't spend too much time.
[13:53] I have one comment to you.
[13:55] Thanks.
[13:55] I'm glad that you got this experience.
[13:57] This is excellent.
[13:58] We need to be doing this program for sure.
[14:01] You selected a really good school for engineering.
[14:04] They're very highly rated in engineering school down there.
[14:07] So I think you'll enjoy that.
[14:09] Did you say what type of engineering you meant to civil?
[14:13] You said civil, didn't you?
[14:15] Okay.
[14:15] All right.
[14:16] Well, and you'll start there when in August?
[14:19] Yes, ma'am.
[14:20] Okay.
[14:21] All right.
[14:21] Well, thanks for all you did.
[14:23] And hopefully it was really, it seems like it was well worth your time and you're learning
[14:28] a lot of great things.
[14:30] Thank you.
[14:31] Thank you guys for the opportunity.
[14:33] If I could just add on one thing because I didn't want to be remiss.
[14:36] I know that Chief Johnson and a fire department team
[14:40] looking at an internship program.
[14:42] So a work-based learning program and internship program
[14:45] all creates a pipeline to put tension talent
[14:49] that would want to come back to the city
[14:51] if we can give them a meaningful and positive experience.
[14:54] And that's what this is all about.
[14:56] Hopefully that will be able to expand the work.
[15:00] Our base loaning program to other departments and areas of interest could be finance. It could
[15:07] be IT based on the curriculum that's in the Williams and County School. So thanks to Sean
[15:15] and we've been enjoying its experience as you can see in his tear on face.
[15:18] Thank you.
[15:23] The old math teacher likes to really hear it, too.
[15:28] That's good.
[15:30] Okay, thank you.
[15:31] Next is status update and discussion of the progress on development of Buscai Place,
[15:38] also known as the Hill Property.
[15:40] Mayor, actually, I think we have some special events first.
[15:47] Well, I must have an old thing.
[15:50] So, thank you.
[15:51] Yeah, I've got a real ring.
[15:52] I've got one.
[15:53] I've got one. I just had all my notes. So we're going to go to the event permit for the Franklin
[15:58] rodeo. You can go and sit. Then the Pilgrimage Music Festival. Then there's a long-term special event
[16:10] permit for the Pilgrimage Music Festival. And there's the bluegrass along the harpoth. So the
[16:19] Any of those that you'd like to have some discussion about?
[16:23] I would ask Brant to come up since he traveled all the way from Texas to be had anything
[16:27] he wanted to share.
[16:29] Thank you.
[16:30] Brandy?
[16:32] Yeah.
[16:32] Well, you get to just, just think, there we go.
[16:37] It's so good to see you guys, I do come back multiple times during the year, but this
[16:42] is one of the most important visits because I get to just thank you guys for supporting
[16:47] this event. Some of you I've been working with for over 10 years. I certainly want to thank
[16:53] Monique and Eric and the city staff. They work very hard. We've already met multiple times on 2024.
[17:00] It's our 10th year. How did that happen? And we have, you know, most of our team have been working
[17:08] with us for many years. Some of the whole time we have some new faces each year. But we endeavor to
[17:13] deliver a world class music festival, you guys give us the trust and support to allow us
[17:20] to strive to do that.
[17:23] Programming has done over $100 million in direct revenue and depending on what multiple
[17:30] you use, it's done hundreds of millions of dollars of money circulating through Williamson
[17:35] County and hotels and taxes and stores and vendors and attorneys and all the ways that we
[17:41] We are able to engage economic activity support the festival.
[17:46] And so again, thank you, the support is tremendous.
[17:50] It allows us to focus on presenting and producing a great festival.
[17:57] I'll say this again, Monique has been really on my shoulder the whole time, keeping us,
[18:03] you know, through good times and bad, I'm just happy to say that when the years are successful
[18:08] in all fronts, our meetings with Glenn and thank you for Glenn for you and your team
[18:14] and all the Franklin's finest, the post-mortem meetings go very fast.
[18:21] We had another one of those quick meetings in January.
[18:24] It's like, anyway, let's talk about 2024.
[18:28] So it's a huge thanks on behalf of our team Kevin Griffith and Michael Wailen and I.
[18:33] We've been here since year zero and we plan on being here another 10 years at least and it's a pleasure
[18:41] It's it's a labor of love and it's worth every ounce of sweat
[18:45] Is Brent noted it is the 10th anniversary or 10th year for pilgrimage, and that's exciting the only adjustment
[18:53] I think that you'd see over what you saw last year is the maximum ticket capacity or attendance capacity has moved from
[19:00] 25,000 up to 30,000 otherwise hours are the same as we had last year and those those other elements that's the only
[19:07] Meaningful change from from from from last year and I'll adjust that real quick
[19:11] I might have hired Paul last year if I didn't normally had an engineering mind like that in the
[19:16] In the mix because the streets weren't they weren't quite ready now
[19:20] And that was we're so happy the sidewalks the streets the lights the lanes the bridge the haze house
[19:27] It's as if the 10th year somehow the universe delivered a whole lot on the 10th year
[19:35] And it's it's really allows us to confidently kind of bump up the number a little bit
[19:41] Last year's lineup look I'd have picked out one of all our lineup to get us to 30,000
[19:47] We've announced the show you see Dave Matthews, Ben, Eric Ahan, Lucas Nelson, you see Hosier
[19:53] better than Ezra keeps getting on the bill and I'm so glad and so we have a
[20:00] great lineup and we think the 10-year you know milestone is going to mean
[20:04] something to the folks that live here this has always been a festival we built
[20:09] for the local population however half of just as an economic note and because
[20:16] Maureen would like me to say this half of the visitors to pilgrimage the ticket
[20:21] buyers are from out of the area, out of Davidson, out of Williams and kind of they travel
[20:26] here. They spend nights at a hotel. So that's, that was sort of always part of the thing
[20:31] and it ended up happening. But 30,000 folks, if we get there, Yeehaw be really excited.
[20:36] We're marketing more and we're doing some special things about about the 10th year.
[20:41] But the extra, the street widening, the bridge, and just the experience I think we have
[20:48] that the city kind of has continued to entrust us with this event gave us
[20:54] collectively the confidence to bump up the number in hopes of you know having a
[20:58] bigger economic experience. We'll see if we get there.
[21:01] I'll run back. We took a trip trying to number what it was from Franklin
[21:07] tomorrow down to Huntsville to the Orion amphitheater. I guess it was last fall
[21:13] And they have some parking in traffic situations that we don't have those now, but as much as we used to, they had kind of like after the main act, a smaller event or smaller stage right outside of the state in so that to kind of keep the traffic from all leaving it once, because when I'm there, you see a lot of people at pilgrimage.
[21:40] the last show of the night and everyone's, you know, it's like, you know, everyone's just
[21:45] darting to their car. I thought it was an interesting concept and I don't know how this would
[21:49] work with the city's staff team would have to review this. But I thought it was an interesting concept
[21:54] that Orion has planned for not all 10,000 people going to the parking lot at once. They might,
[22:01] they come out and hang around the little stage for a little bit afterwards and it kind of eases a
[22:06] a little bit of pressure, so not to throw wrenches into the plans this year, but I would
[22:11] say that was a really interesting, and there are lots of things that we have to look into,
[22:16] but I think that interesting concept, and I think you might have some people that would
[22:21] stay and kind of temper the leaving, but it hadn't been a problem, but as we're increasing
[22:28] and to better meet that demand up, maybe not for this year, but maybe in the future I think
[22:34] looking at something like that because that it's like a herd of cattle. Straight the part
[22:42] in if there was a place where if someone wanted to stay later and they could see another
[22:47] little band or an experience or I know that goes past our hours that's why I'm saying there's
[22:52] all these obstacles right yeah we'd have to look at it. But I think looking at it and again maybe
[22:57] not for this year but in the future Orion is doing it well and they don't have those traffic problems
[23:08] I was just going to say sometimes it happens naturally anyway, depending on who's performing
[23:12] on the gold record stage in the midnight sun stage, there might be opposites, you know
[23:16] music styles, and so sometimes it happens naturally.
[23:19] The key to urban crowd was like, we're done with the food fighter, who leave, and the food
[23:22] fighter.
[23:23] What?
[23:24] I mean, the urban crowd was like, peace out, the good folks at the factory are renovating
[23:31] Liberty Hall, 2500, it's going to be an incredible venue.
[23:35] We've always aspired to be an after-show type of festival, but we just are out of gas.
[23:41] By the time it comes to the summer and we're starting to get bands to ask us if there's
[23:46] anywhere besides Kimbrose, they can play late.
[23:50] There's a little more momentum this year just because of the quality of the owner and
[23:54] the efforts there and the dollars they're putting into the factory.
[23:56] You may see, I'll be surprised if you didn't see some late shows there, that will automatically
[24:03] siphon off some folks and take and put and lighten up the pressure on Franklin Road.
[24:08] I can tell you when we used a bike rack and stop traffic, that was that funneled the crowd
[24:14] into a little more of a cattle trail experience.
[24:19] Now that the street is wide and the sidewalks are lit and people are going to Ligonfield
[24:23] to get their car going downtown or now crossing the river and hitting the trails, I think
[24:28] you're going to see a more divided, egress, even go to the United Methodist Church
[24:34] and park, because they, you know, so, but duly noted, I think, with the extra hours, was
[24:42] a huge help with Zach Bryan, if you all were there last year, it just gave the fans more
[24:47] music more of a light show and you know I think going later to slow down
[24:54] address does work at some festivals I think I'd rather see them go across the
[24:58] street but it's an interesting idea. When we stopped walking in the south lot
[25:03] the part that it relieved a lot of the challenges that was what was our
[25:08] Achilles heel frankly. Yeah yeah and you you could I think Mr. Mayor you could also
[25:13] point them to across the street. Sure, we'll promote it there and with all that going on,
[25:21] do you have any idea people come and go all the time? So the numbers are constantly changing at
[25:27] the park. Do you have any idea about what is the average one time attendees in a park? Of course,
[25:35] for the festival.
[25:37] Our average year every year is probably 20,000 a day.
[25:42] We've had up to 27,000.
[25:44] You know, at Timberlake, we had 25,000.
[25:46] Both of those were sellouts.
[25:48] The year that it flooded, we had 24,000 folks there on that Saturday.
[25:53] And so, you know, we've been, I think,
[25:56] the mean average has been going up,
[25:58] but I'd call it low 20s.
[26:00] Yeah, people come and go.
[26:00] Average daily attendance over time.
[26:03] And then, two other things, yeah, I would think maybe just check into that Orion thing
[26:10] because that might be helpful, but putting them across street to the new, the factory's
[26:15] great idea.
[26:16] And I want to tell you something, it happened to me, I was down at the beach in January in
[26:20] Florida and some good friends of ours down there and they, their H.O.A. had a beach party
[26:25] so we were invited to that and went to that and we were all standing around with a bunch
[26:28] of people, right?
[26:28] And somebody said, oh, you're from Franklin.
[26:31] Oh, we went to pilgrimage.
[26:33] And I went, oh, and the other people said, oh,
[26:36] with that's a Nashville.
[26:37] And I said, sacrilege, don't you say that?
[26:40] I said, the other people just jumped on them and said,
[26:43] no, it's in Franklin.
[26:45] And so you got a big plug for the,
[26:47] there there's about 60 people there.
[26:49] And everybody says, what?
[26:51] I don't know, a few people said, yeah, we've heard of that.
[26:53] And we want to go.
[26:54] And so it's traveling and traveling.
[26:57] Good. Yeah. You've been singing our praises for a long time now. Yeah. But those people
[27:01] will still write out and when they say that several years, don't say that. It's Franklin.
[27:06] So it was it was fun. It was fun talking with them and then hearing people just talk about the
[27:11] proberage. Thank you. We need to keep moving. Thank you, Brian. I'll say just real quick that
[27:16] we do table type exercises over the summer with Glenn and his team to emphasize and never take
[27:22] the eye off of public safety. That is our most important aspect of the festival, and it
[27:28] is an unarying priority. So, to let you know.
[27:32] Absolutely. Thank you.
[27:34] Okay, now we're going to go to my new list, which says this is item 7, the development
[27:40] of the Biscay Place, or the Hill Property.
[27:54] Because the team here to provide you with a little update on the Hill Project, Vernon?
[27:58] Yes, I have Durwin as you know and Greg Gamble here to talk about the health property and
[28:06] The reason that they're before he is number one to give an update and we have
[28:13] NAP staff working and trying to work out some details that would allow
[28:19] the LLC to
[28:21] issue are to submit a development plan. But you may recall going back quite some
[28:27] time that the Board did approve a resolution that included a letter of intent and
[28:33] a timing that has since expired and that resolution called for the LLC to
[28:40] come back and ask for an extension. So that's what there when it is here to do while
[28:46] Greg talks about the submittal of the development plan. And then also not to be
[28:50] We've forgotten an important part, is that we're going to update that letter of intent.
[28:54] I hope that you allow us to keep forging ahead in the resolution.
[29:00] But when we get with the development plan and come back, we'll have a development agreement that will include the request for funding.
[29:10] That was about 2.9 million that had been discussed, that will be a part of that development plan and discussion.
[29:17] But I know I said probably everything Derwin's going to say, but I'll let him elaborate a little bit and talk a little bit more about the LLC and where they're at. Thank you.
[29:29] Well, good evening, Mr. Marin, Balmond and Eric.
[29:33] We want to give you an update on where we are and let you know we have even though we're going to be asked for an extension, but we've been working very hard on this for the last couple of years almost now.
[29:46] and just to let you know, we're committed to it.
[29:50] We probably have spent over $130,000 on it,
[29:53] so let you know that we are committed
[29:55] and have been doing everything.
[29:56] It's just been a few challenges,
[29:58] but I think we're getting there.
[30:00] So, definitely, we just want to give you an update on what we are and just let you know. And, you know, I just as always, I want to say this real quick. You know, as I talk to a lot of people across this state and across the country, we take it directly about housing. And they always ask me, you know, how are we doing as much as we are doing. And so I just want to commend, you know, this board, this city because I tell them we couldn't do it without the support of this city.
[30:30] city, and what you guys do to help us with affordable housing, and I mean that because
[30:35] when I hear what they say in their city is doing, it makes me feel, wow, we're doing
[30:40] a whole lot.
[30:40] Now city is supporting what we're doing, so I just really want you guys to know that, but
[30:45] just to give you a quick update on where we are with the heel, so you can just kind of
[30:50] see where we are right now today.
[30:55] Sure.
[30:55] I thank you Mayor and Board of Mayor and Oldman.
[30:59] I'm Greg Gamble, and I'm the consulting land planner for the LLC.
[31:05] Over the past seven to eight months, we have been working on a second means of egress
[31:12] out of the property.
[31:13] If you look here on this first map, you'll see the swath of blue that is the 100-year floodplain
[31:20] that covers Hillsborough Road in this location.
[31:23] You'll see on the north edge of Hillsboro Road is an area that the blue floodplain does
[31:30] not cross.
[31:31] That area is above the 100-year floodplain.
[31:34] We have been working over the past several months with the adjacent Mount Hope Cemetery
[31:41] to coordinate an emergency egress path that would go behind Sonic across the cemetery.
[31:47] If you look on page 2, you can see the route for this emergency path.
[31:52] This emergency path would require the relocation of two historic columns that are located on Mount Hope Street.
[32:03] And that gave a lot of concern to the board of the cemetery.
[32:08] We then started working with Jimmy Weissman Paul Holson on an alternative route which you'll see here on the second page.
[32:17] back before the improvements of Hillsboro Road and before the new retaining wall that's along the edge of this property was constructed.
[32:25] There was a second means of egress here that was used by the city of Franklin's water and sewer department to access Hillsboro Road.
[32:34] You'll notice that it exits out onto Hillsboro Road where that 100 year floodplain does not exist.
[32:40] and it's clear from there to the Kroger shopping center above the 100-year floodplain.
[32:46] So by creating an emergency egress path on this side of the property,
[32:51] we can leave the cemetery the way that it is now.
[32:55] We don't need to disturb anything on the cemetery or remove columns.
[32:59] This path, this emergency egress path that will exit out into Hillsboro Road,
[33:03] will be used as a pedestrian path during a normal day.
[33:08] It will allow the residents who are here to access the grocery store and the shopping that's down at the bottom of the hill.
[33:16] But during an emergency event, it'll be designed so that vehicles can exit the property.
[33:23] It would be designed for a tri-fire truck to access it, but we're anticipating that's not going to be necessary.
[33:29] But it would be designed to accommodate that as well.
[33:32] Well, the next page shows you our calendar.
[33:36] This shows you the list of items that have been completed to this point.
[33:40] We have received a recommendation of approval from the Historic Zoning Commission for this
[33:49] plan, for the emergency egress path through the historic buffer.
[33:53] And we have filed our development plan to staff.
[33:58] It's on track to appear before the joint conceptual workshop for a second time at the end of April and then planning commission would be at the end of May tracking through to the Board Mayor and Alderman in June and July.
[34:14] So along with this, the middle of the development plan includes the normal Parkland education, but special to this is the development agreement between the LLC and the City of Franklin, which is in process.
[34:27] So
[34:30] brief explanation of the delay, but did cause a pause there for seven or eight months
[34:37] as we vetted out options.
[34:38] Paul, I'm going to blend.
[34:40] I've been in support of this since the word go.
[34:44] So I'll have being able to know that works being done to bring us to the finish line.
[34:49] I absolutely adore that y'all are honoring Brent Bousquet in this way.
[34:54] So he would thank humility, but secretly he'd be really excited.
[34:58] So thank you for that.
[35:04] And we can start calling it Buscae Place and not the Hill, which creates confusion about the Hill property on Columbia and other places.
[35:12] So that'll be nice too.
[35:14] That is exciting, Eric.
[35:17] Just a quick comment.
[35:19] Thank you for bringing the timeline here.
[35:21] Thank you also for respecting what the cemetery board their concerns were and maintaining those pillars in their current location.
[35:30] and I also appreciate as we've been dealing with a lot of flooding, having flashbacks to
[35:38] other developments, been able to see this and then I'm glad to know that the far apparatus
[35:46] for the trucks, all of them will be able to use this and I assume also that the EMS services
[35:52] and police as well, will there be a gate there, will there be poles, what's kind of envisioned
[35:59] right now?
[35:59] Any emergency vehicle would be able to access this, that's the intent.
[36:04] I need, we need to work with engineering on this and fire as well in emergency services.
[36:08] Honestly, we want a design that is clearly intended for pedestrian use, but can become
[36:15] emergency address path in the event of a flood.
[36:18] So maybe gates, maybe a pedestrian gate of some time, again, we're still kind of working
[36:24] through the, the finish there.
[36:26] Okay.
[36:27] Thank you.
[36:29] Holden Barnhill, one thing. Will we have a second meeting in July?
[36:36] No. So that 23rd is not a good day. I'll make that change. Thank you.
[36:47] And number two, we want to discuss any of, because I see 600,000 here and a million here
[36:54] and 479,000 here, and another all just pocket change.
[37:01] That just took me in there.
[37:03] So are we looking to discuss the end of that now?
[37:07] That's really up to you as a board
[37:09] to give us further direction on that.
[37:11] That also would be incorporated in what we might bring to you
[37:15] in terms of the specific development agreement.
[37:18] So it's what's been requested at this stage.
[37:22] Welcome feedback now, but also that would be something we'd integrate in kind of next steps in this process as well.
[37:29] Well, so far, how much have we approved?
[37:31] We've given the property, we estimate that was a million-thirty, which was for all practical purposes was much less than probably what the taste value of the property would have been, if it hadn't been being restricted to the rezoning and what was being built on it, the property would have been worth more than 1.3.
[37:50] but now also we were looking at about $500,000 of that to go to the water, I guess it was
[37:58] the water and wastewater department. So where is, where is that? Is that, is that the
[38:07] Well, if I may make a recommendation, because the numbers you shared aren't exact.
[38:20] And I don't have them in front of me.
[38:23] And there's multiple elements that were presented before the first of the year when we had originally asked.
[38:30] I would suggest that we bring that back at a work session before we get to the point of approving the development plan and development agreement.
[38:40] So there when and the team can talk about those figures, we can refresh them as needed and then be more responsive to going over the various elements because there are various pieces too.
[38:54] Well, I read a sentence that says the total amount of additional funding requested was estimated
[39:01] to be no greater than $2.9 million, $2 million, $2 million, $2 million, $2 million, $61,000.
[39:06] That does cause a little heartburner's right.
[39:11] I probably over the heartburn portion of being an alderman now on whatever the financial
[39:17] numbers are, but that does cause me some concern and we need to look at that.
[39:24] I would think that we would burn a sort of itemized list of those things is coming down through that and show where we have done so far.
[39:33] But I was pretty well correct on the one-point tree.
[39:36] Well, the 4.79 is definitely the amount that would be owed to the water management.
[39:41] Because they own a portion of the property, the other portion is owned by the general property.
[39:46] So we were going to, for the lack of a better term, which is we will eat that but we needed
[39:52] to make sure that the water, wastewater, the part more holy.
[39:54] Yeah, you've got to keep the utility hold. That's one transaction that you'll need to do in
[39:58] this process and as Vernon says, we can lay that all out. You all need to give, you know, think
[40:03] through that and give that direction ultimately and that'll be part of this process.
[40:07] And also, the county is giving contributing to it as well.
[40:12] Two, seven of the water and sewer infrastructure with ARPA, yeah, so is that so is that is that's in the project when it's not in not part of that that 2.9 million.
[40:24] That is separate from that.
[40:25] So that is the line and breakdown be great.
[40:32] I don't want to try to figure out on the spot.
[40:41] Yeah.
[40:42] Absolutely. I think there's broad support for this, and we've had some conversations on this.
[40:48] Yeah, there's a point where we're getting 31 units, and maybe that's because of our zoning,
[40:52] and our planning documents that get X number of units, because that's how it's, you know,
[40:58] zoned, and that's our planning and requirements. I want to make sure,
[41:05] I don't know how to say this without it sounding like I'm not in support of this,
[41:09] because I am in support of this.
[41:11] But I think when you put on our financial hat
[41:13] and if we're looking at five or six million dollars,
[41:16] at some point you have to ask, well, how much money,
[41:18] like if you could just have five or six million dollars
[41:21] and go to develop somewhere else,
[41:22] could you get more than 31 units
[41:23] and actually help and do more with our problem?
[41:26] I'm not saying that's what I wanna do.
[41:28] But I think these are apart from this specific project
[41:32] that I do support.
[41:34] I think we have to start looking at this as a city
[41:36] and start thinking about getting the most mileage out of our dollar in the future.
[41:45] We're giving the land, we're doing all this stuff, which is all great.
[41:47] And I think this would be hard to find something else appropriate for this location,
[41:52] so I can say I'm in support of it.
[41:57] Philosophically, this is not a sustainable model for affordable housing in Franklin,
[42:01] them and whether the issues of the property or the issues are in our zoning or whatever we're
[42:07] giving five million dot four or five between the county will see the line. We're contributing
[42:13] quite a bit of getting 31 units. Now there's another development that I think you'll
[42:19] are partnering with over off the interstate and getting 200 and something units and there's
[42:23] a different kind of deal. I get it and I'm good with that. But we didn't we didn't really
[42:27] put in a dime of city dollars on that deal and we're getting 200 affordable units as a tax credit
[42:33] deal it's different but I would just I do just saying that I think we have to at some point we're
[42:39] kind of down the rabbit hole in this one and I support it but philosophically we've got to make some
[42:45] hard I think this is telling for us as a city staff as a city armament of this is what actual private
[42:51] development is having to deal with to build affordable and how and something isn't working
[42:57] because the math is not working because we're having to come in and pay for the for this
[43:02] difference. So how do we fix that we have we have given ourselves a case example of why there's
[43:07] no affordable housing in Franklin being built right here. Look no further. It's right under
[43:13] this is I mean you can argue with me but this is the issues that we're seeing here.
[43:20] This is why there's not a more affordable housing being built and I don't know why and I think this is an exercise
[43:27] I think we need to figure it out and I think we can learn from it and I think staff is learning from it
[43:32] Yeah, and it's not just a city question. It's an overall development
[43:36] More than 100% yeah the cost to develop and not just driven by city, but just oh no and if I sounded like I was I was not I was not saying it's a city
[43:45] I think this is a case example of just in general, and I think we have a lot to learn from this, and I think this could be some of the most movement that we can make as a community learning from what we've just gone through, if we really sees that moment. And I think it's it's worthy of doing.
[44:04] Thank you. And we can frame that discussion both in terms of what the boards being asked for, but also the broader context of the development as sort of a case study, if you will.
[44:14] Absolutely. Yeah. And if there are, I think it might be helpful if Derwin and his team would also come back and say what $5 million would do elsewhere.
[44:28] And to be clear, the city is not putting $5 million into that. That's not the ask.
[44:32] I should not have used that number. I want to line that in from correct. Whatever it is, whatever the number is.
[44:39] I just wanted to echo what has been said here, because this is an exercise to help enlighten us
[44:46] of what the challenges are.
[44:48] And this isn't just Franklin, it's communities across the country.
[44:54] And part of this plays into our quality of life, too.
[45:00] Affordable housing, workforce housing, attainable housing, because when we go to, when our neighbors
[45:06] in us, we, for example, go to a restaurant and see many of the tables empty because they
[45:14] don't have enough servers, that's a problem for us all. And that plays in to why we have a
[45:21] diverse housing stack in the community. But again, we're not the only ones facing this issue.
[45:28] It's existed a long time and it'll continue for a long time, but you have some
[45:34] resources to call upon, but this exercise really enlightens us to the true
[45:40] challenges in this case itself. Thank you for that. One more question. How many
[45:47] units are you response before the 31?
[45:52] I have a 31. You mean you?
[45:59] Well, we're doing this to the LLC the whole Franklin Hill so it's it's it's it's
[46:04] hard bargain habitat and CHP so as a group we all respond as a group yes yeah okay
[46:12] because I mean I'm just I'll pay you a compliment I think but I went by
[46:16] Cherokee the other couple of days ago that is really a nice looking project you've
[46:21] you know that that that is I was well I shouldn't say blown away because I don't
[46:28] have heartburn over for me and I shouldn't be blown away by the development
[46:32] either but it was really nice and impressive over there. I'm just wondering why
[46:38] we would not get that there. Well that's you know that's our plan to do something
[46:46] that's going to be really nice and affordable. You know part of what we want to
[46:50] reach is those, those individuals between 80% and 100% of the media income.
[46:55] So, so it's going to require us really being creative to make those, you know,
[47:01] support them for those, for those individuals, teachers and people that service workers
[47:06] that we want to, to live here, to want to, to, to, to, to own a home.
[47:10] So, that's, that's going to be our goal to reach that.
[47:13] So, it's not going to be easy, but that's what we're working on.
[47:18] So, what's coming back to us?
[47:20] We'll bring back to you essentially an agreement that covers the ask, but we'll also break
[47:27] down the components of that cost and the overall economics of the project from the discussion
[47:32] we've had tonight.
[47:32] I think that would be the takeaway.
[47:34] We'll bring that back.
[47:35] I don't have the timeline in front of you, but somewhere along the lines of what has been
[47:39] shared with you.
[47:40] So, the additional time.
[47:41] And then you'll get to make that decision in terms of how you want to partner.
[47:45] Item
[47:49] 8, thank you, is ordinance 2023-41 in ordinance to amend chapter 4,
[47:56] title 16 of the Franklin Municipal Code concerning road impact fees.
[48:01] We've had a number of discussions over a pretty significant period of time talking about an
[48:06] update of our road impact fees. We have laid out a phase in approach and wanted to walk through
[48:12] that with you and get feedback from the board tonight in terms of how we move forward.
[48:31] We've presented this multiple times, I've actually had this slated for the agendas in February, but for various reasons it's been moved, and that's okay, but we're here now.
[48:42] So we've done a tremendous amount of public outreach and public education.
[48:45] I'm not going to sit here and read all those to you.
[48:49] Summary of what are the major changes being proposed is that we're going to adjust the
[48:54] impact fee annually based off of Federal Highway Administration, National Highway Construction
[48:59] Index to try to keep the cost more current.
[49:03] And then the other major change that we made was we incorporated different size single family
[49:07] detached and attached structures as it relates to the pricing.
[49:14] for the proposed implementation.
[49:16] This has changed a few times, but what we're proposing now is the first increase,
[49:21] which would be half the increase to happen January 1st, 2025,
[49:25] and then going to 100% of the 2023, or 100% of the impact fees on January 1st,
[49:31] 2026, and then starting in 2027, we would start increasing it based on that
[49:37] national highway construction cost index.
[49:40] Again, we've done as much public education as we possibly can at this point, we're looking for any and all feedback and we're prepared to bring that ordinance forward as soon as you're ready for it.
[49:53] Happy to answer any questions.
[50:00] Well, these changes will it, and I'm admittedly, I'm not as currently up to speed on how
[50:10] sometimes we will allow developments to offset their fees with improvements we require.
[50:17] But that's capped at a certain percent— is it 50 percent? Is that capped?
[50:22] It's based on the impact fees they owe.
[50:26] Usually when a development comes forward and they have been, where this impact fees have been extremely beneficial to us is when a development comes forward and has major impacts to a collector and arterial, there's not a huge debate of whether they do the improvements or not.
[50:41] We usually figure out a deal where they can make the improvements and we generally try to size it to be about the same size as their impact fees if possible.
[50:50] There's been occasions where you've decided to contribute more to just get the broader project done.
[50:55] For example, instead of going in and adding one or two turn lanes at an intersection, we've offered to contribute to just get the whole intersection done, so we don't have to revisit that intersection later.
[51:05] But generally speaking, they can recoup 100% of it, whether it be right away dedication or whether it be doing the off-site improvements.
[51:13] for the collector for which for both collectory and arterial arterial funds can't be spent on collectors and vice versa, but that's not going to change in this.
[51:22] The same kind of methodology that we use now continue to be used just higher fees.
[51:27] Yes. Okay.
[51:28] The.
[51:29] All of the situation.
[51:31] Yeah, but with one exception, though, the total amount they could contribute up to 100% is greater.
[51:36] Right. And I think that's a significant piece because if before it was 8,000 per single family home,
[51:41] Now, it's 16,000, so potentially they could offset more appropriately the road work that
[51:47] needs to be done there.
[51:48] I think maybe pivoting away from some of the nuance here and onto kind of broad strokes,
[51:53] my perspective is we're telling people on April 23rd that they're going to have a significant
[51:58] 50% increase on road fees in less than eight months.
[52:02] I think that's hard to do business.
[52:05] I think it's pretty quick.
[52:06] I think 50% is a big, big percentage for us to be communicating out this in this short
[52:12] of time frame.
[52:13] My personal perspective here, I don't oppose us right sizing the impact fees, but I think
[52:18] we need to be a little bit more intentional and give those who are doing business and building
[52:22] homes and communities in our cities a little bit more runway to build some of these projects
[52:27] and consider the additional costs because we've not been necessarily consistent with what
[52:34] That may be because it's been in flux and so I think out of respect for those who have built in the past and it will continue to build in the future.
[52:40] Maybe we need to give them a little more runway.
[52:43] Would it look like the second date, I would say that I don't know that we need to that's two years that's a maybe the first date, a year from the time it's passed, but the second January 1, 20, 26, that is almost two years, you know, two years out.
[53:01] But maybe the first day adjusts, I think it's more than 50% and the first day, those two together make it really hard if I were trying to build a project and had a budget in place.
[53:13] It might slow some things, it might disrupt some things in a pretty material way.
[53:18] Now we do definitely, I want to be clear, we do definitely need to right size the impact fees here.
[53:23] I'm more concerned with how do we do it in a way that allows people to be playful in what they do?
[53:29] Well, if you want a different phase in, we're open to looking at that direction as well.
[53:34] This is what's been on the table, but we're glad to look at whatever else or however else you might want to do that if you wanted to do it.
[53:42] And thirds with those same dates, or and then we would highly recommend though that the inflationary adjustment be integrated that just helps us stay more current with the reality of inflation at any given time.
[53:54] So that maybe in the future those adjustments are less of a shock to the system, if you will.
[54:01] I don't want another 10-year height as well.
[54:04] So I think all of those would be great and we're open to your guidance on how you want to do that
[54:08] if there's an approach you'd rather see.
[54:18] That's a valid comment you made Alderman and when Negan was here from Alper
[54:25] Benish. She did mention but we also know that communities that have impact
[54:33] fees, you know, if they implement them, well then they're collecting the true
[54:38] cost of construction to add capacity to their road network. However, if the economy doesn't
[54:46] help them move forward and get the investment for other infrastructure, they may lower
[54:53] those fees based on the current state of the economy. I bring that up because that's a reality.
[54:59] And the point is that the cost of these improvements that were analyzed by two separate consultants
[55:08] is the cost of the improvements to add capacity to our collector and arterial road network based on the trips generated for those uses.
[55:18] So don't hesitate to implement something to whatever your comfort is.
[55:25] But as we go forward and talk more about capital projects and growing the city, we want to write size it in the right time to write sizes, obviously when things are going really well in the economy.
[55:37] So, we're pretty fortunate in Franklin to withstand some downturn, but these costs are real.
[55:46] For American road improvements, even for us, when we do capital projects which are typically a little bit more costly,
[55:54] that's why we want to incentivize developers to make some of these improvements because they can do them at a lesser cost.
[56:07] Just a quick question. Is there anything significant about 2027?
[56:13] We were simply just trying to keep that runway length long enough for developers to see
[56:18] we didn't want to flip a switch and start charging the impact fee. So we just thought that
[56:22] it was a reasonable time frame to give to try to increase, slowly increase it up to the
[56:27] full fee.
[56:28] So, so you could take it then out to even 2028 if we if we needed to and divide out as you were saying by different percentages from there
[56:36] To make it maybe a little bit more palatable because I'm also concerned that
[56:41] Hidden this so hard could really stifle
[56:44] Where we are right now and developments are going on
[56:48] That we know about and those that we don't know about so
[56:53] I would be in in favor of
[56:57] We'll say a different percentage of implementation.
[57:03] Alderman Barnhill, just looking at those and understanding where we are.
[57:08] I don't, I personally don't have a particular problem in those dates that you got up there.
[57:15] We're, we're growing at 2,000 a year or whatever we're growing at.
[57:20] This traffic is there, the cars are there, and I don't see any reason.
[57:25] and I can't see any reason and I've not ever experienced a reason to move those dates
[57:30] out. That road impact fee, as far as I'm concerned, is never stifled growth. That road
[57:40] impact fee, when I said I didn't listen to the individuals that were complaining against
[57:45] it just a few years ago when we first implemented said the same thing. But that is not stifled.
[57:52] any growth in the 30 something plus years that we've been that we've had the impact fees. So don't
[57:58] I'm not interested in that being maybe I don't say the point of discussion or something other
[58:06] but I'm not dissatisfied with those three days that you got up to. I think 20 20 27 is plenty of time
[58:14] for a developer to get his act together if he doesn't I'm not sure that probably doesn't need to go
[58:20] maybe to spring heeled with an older narrower.
[58:26] Pardon, but I get all of it first.
[58:29] I tend to agree with Greg and Jason, I love the way you frame that.
[58:33] That's a great runway analogy.
[58:37] I don't know that it would necessarily slow down growth.
[58:41] I think it would raise the market in our community to where it's even less attainable than
[58:46] it is today.
[58:47] I mean realistically the developers not paying that they're passing it on to the consumer.
[58:52] So I when you said a third to third to third that one kind of sounded good to me, but
[58:58] I do think that kind of like stretching out a little bit further, I know that we do
[59:03] a really great job of talking to the design professionals in which we have relationships.
[59:07] So they're aware this is coming, but it doesn't mean that we don't need to be a little bit
[59:14] more aware of the people who might want to come and develop in our community who gets
[59:19] sticker shock to. I would be curious to know, and I should know this, so I'm going to
[59:24] bust myself, the ones that we have, they're already entitled, and have not even put a shovel
[59:29] in the ground. What's the grandfather scenario for them is that when their entitlement is
[59:36] expired, or are they still locked into the old road impact piece?
[59:39] It's like I got building permit building it's building from the
[59:44] The best thing that you've alluded to other men. It only pertains to the regulations not to the cost of
[59:53] services and
[59:54] You know fees for making improvements of this nature so are water parks
[1:00:01] I will add to why I'm speaking is that, you know, how you raise the fee, we want to get
[1:00:11] guidance so we can get the ordinance before you. But as developments come forward and
[1:00:17] are going to be required to make road improvements, that translates in to those developments that
[1:00:24] required to make road improvements that add capacity to collector and or
[1:00:29] to roads those costs then won't be covered by the fees they pay. So, it doesn't
[1:00:35] happen to every development but I did want to highlight.
[1:00:39] The flip side of that is you don't get as much reimbursement for the work you may
[1:00:43] be doing on or on the half. So it kind of it does cut both ways depending on the
[1:00:47] nature of the improvements you might be doing.
[1:00:49] I see Aldrin Berger still working on her comments and I would make a comment. Oh, sure.
[1:00:56] You want to go before me? Oh, no, you go ahead. But I was going to say if the board decides
[1:01:01] that they want to create a longer runway, I think that we should create a sooner runway
[1:01:07] as far as indexing. But I'm fine with what this is personally right now because I think
[1:01:15] You make the point of building a road cost what it cost.
[1:01:21] Somebody's got to pick up the tab, and that's our other taxpayers.
[1:01:26] Alderman Burger, and then I'll get Alderman Peterson.
[1:01:30] I didn't skip over you.
[1:01:32] I already had her.
[1:01:33] I definitely want us to go with a different scenario here.
[1:01:40] We've got to stretch that out a little bit, and I still think it's...
[1:01:45] I'm not comfortable with how it is right now.
[1:01:47] I just don't think it's fair to do that.
[1:01:51] And we all know that these, this is like, I don't know to me,
[1:01:57] it's so frustrating because we have to do this,
[1:02:00] but at the same time, long term,
[1:02:04] how is this sustainable in the future forever in the future
[1:02:08] for our city and for our development?
[1:02:10] right now our housing is a million dollars basically.
[1:02:16] I can't go out there and build a house and sell a house and turn it around for less than a million dollars right now.
[1:02:24] Well, I wouldn't cobble with a couple dollars here and there though because the housing prices in an expensive city with expensive land costs, I mean, it is what it is.
[1:02:39] that we don't control that, the market does.
[1:02:43] And also people wanting to come here and everything
[1:02:46] we've done to make this place so great in the state,
[1:02:50] everything this state has done.
[1:02:52] And we're very attractive to people
[1:02:55] and we're very attractive to developers
[1:02:58] and they're answering, they're not causing the growth,
[1:03:01] they're answering the need,
[1:03:04] the growth is putting a need on our community
[1:03:07] and they're answering that call
[1:03:08] to come out and build houses, they wouldn't be here if the growth wasn't here, but I just find
[1:03:15] this is a stifling thing for me because I don't really have an answer for this.
[1:03:20] I like to look at what other communities are doing because I'm not sure that
[1:03:25] this is ever going to be a sustainable thing because where are we going to go? We're going to
[1:03:29] finally go to $2 million per house in the future. I mean, what does that look like? And, you know, I don't
[1:03:36] I don't know. The developers, I don't think, and
[1:03:41] Klan will take issue with the thing you said there because it's like if the
[1:03:45] developers can't get their act together, well, it's, it's not about that.
[1:03:50] They are beholden to the market.
[1:03:55] They are beholden to what's happening.
[1:03:58] We have a capitalist society and we have, which is great, but
[1:04:03] But we are beholden to what's happening in our market.
[1:04:07] And if you really want to look at it, you look at the state of our economy in the state
[1:04:11] of our country.
[1:04:14] And I was paying what a couple bucks for a dozen of eggs.
[1:04:20] Now I'm paying five and six and they want seven and eight.
[1:04:24] We all know where this is going.
[1:04:26] We all know what we've been in the last few years.
[1:04:29] and so it is the
[1:04:34] twilight zone that we find ourselves in right now and it is. It's a twilight zone.
[1:04:42] So I can see here and say this but do I have any answers right now? I don't but I don't like what I see.
[1:04:49] I can tell you that and I can tell you I don't like what I see with the housing market here because we cannot bring people in.
[1:04:55] can't constantly try to beat the drum and try to build a
[1:04:59] border. Well, housing all the time just to answer the fact
[1:05:01] that we cannot build houses for under a million dollars
[1:05:04] here. Let me. Let me. So I don't mean to preach, but I'm a
[1:05:08] little frustrated. Yeah. And I don't know Eric. We've gone to
[1:05:12] other communities. What have we have we taken a really hard
[1:05:17] look of how else we can answer some of these issues? Let me
[1:05:20] touch on this. Yeah. I appreciate that. First of all, the
[1:05:24] The boards had an approach and a policy that development helps pay its way.
[1:05:27] That's what this provides a pathway for.
[1:05:30] The roads do not materialize without somebody paying for them.
[1:05:33] So is it the taxpayer or development?
[1:05:35] And quite frankly, it's a share.
[1:05:36] It's a sharing between those and this provides a pathway for that.
[1:05:39] You have also established a pathway for folks who are building attainable housing,
[1:05:43] affordable and workforce housing, to get those fees replaced or reduced.
[1:05:48] So you've already provided that pathway for folks who are actually delivering workforce and
[1:05:53] affordable housing. So you've provided an avenue for that. I'm not aware of anybody else
[1:05:57] doing that in the state of Tennessee. So you have done that. And it's, you know, the
[1:06:04] market drives the cost more than these elements. This is a part of the formula, but you've made
[1:06:09] a policy choice. And I think a wise one to say, development ought to help pay its way.
[1:06:14] And this is one of the ways you do that. And like I said, you've provided an allowance
[1:06:18] for affordable and workforce housing on these development fees as well, to be essentially
[1:06:24] replaced by the board when those opportunities come our way. So that does not, this element
[1:06:28] does not become a barrier to delivering those more affordable units.
[1:06:33] Yeah, I don't take argument with any of these, say, absolutely. But affordable housing is
[1:06:40] a challenge everywhere, as we just referenced in our previous discussion.
[1:06:43] We are becoming a very, very, very wealthy city in county and we, as I said, I sit here
[1:06:56] and I don't have the answer for it, but I think maybe there are smarter heads somewhere
[1:07:05] that might be able to help us with some of these things.
[1:07:09] I mean, not that, and I agree with you, we've done a lot of wonderful things and there's
[1:07:14] the things that we're doing that no one else in the state of Tennessee, but I don't
[1:07:19] say we're not looking at ideas, but I'm going to do a little bit more homework because I'm
[1:07:23] not saying developments in papers all but it never does, never does, we know that, it doesn't.
[1:07:28] But then I don't like the argument either on the county side and I hear it a lot and I don't
[1:07:34] really hear it here too much, but I hear it from the county side and I hear it all over
[1:07:38] in this area, in the middle Tennessee area, with our wealthy communities.
[1:07:42] Oh, well, we can always raise taxes because we're a wealthy place.
[1:07:46] I'm not buying that.
[1:07:48] That's not a good thing to say.
[1:07:50] That's not a good mantra to have.
[1:07:52] So at least not in my book.
[1:07:54] So, but anyway, thanks for letting me share that with you.
[1:07:58] I'm not trying to be super critical here.
[1:08:00] I'm just saying, gosh, I'm frustrated because I see what's happening.
[1:08:04] All of the Petersen.
[1:08:07] Well, this last year was not necessarily one of the greatest years for building here.
[1:08:20] I mean, so it dropped basically.
[1:08:24] So I just, I want to keep that in mind too.
[1:08:28] It's not that everybody's building a million dollar house.
[1:08:31] And as I say, what I kind of said on the side, the price that people could have gotten
[1:08:36] for their houses six months ago or more, they cannot get now.
[1:08:41] They cannot sell it those prices because if you look, everything has gone down there.
[1:08:47] But the other thing is probably making this a three time move is good, but these are still
[1:08:57] So really, really expensive.
[1:09:01] All of them in the bank.
[1:09:05] I'm going to support this.
[1:09:08] And I just take a contrary and view here, and all of them
[1:09:13] born who I agree with.
[1:09:16] And you got to think about this, because we all hear from
[1:09:19] the developer community, and we hear from, but let me tell you
[1:09:21] what you can hear from, if we decide to not have the
[1:09:26] development pay their way and these roads have to get paid by someone and we have to raise
[1:09:32] a property tax or and some of us will raise property taxes and that's fine.
[1:09:37] But let me tell you what we get developers who get in our year and say well we can't do
[1:09:43] this year because my project is going to be done this day and I'm going to have two more
[1:09:46] million dollars and I empathize with that first of all to all the developers listening.
[1:09:51] I do and so there's an element of fundamental fairness that we have for the developer who may be nine months from now
[1:09:59] They enter into a contract where they couldn't get out and they're gonna have
[1:10:02] multiple millions dollars of losses because of some of these fees. That is a theory that is a possibility
[1:10:07] Which I would like to avoid in how we implement this so a phasing is good, but 18 to 20 months out
[1:10:15] I don't believe the risk of the financial risk to that person to that developer who
[1:10:19] was not expecting these, is as great as it is in the next nine months, or ten months
[1:10:25] to get to the general toilet.
[1:10:27] So maybe a phasing, but I don't really see much reason to extend it past 2026.
[1:10:33] I think contracts can be avoided or renegotiated within that kind of time frame.
[1:10:38] I think development plans can be changed.
[1:10:41] What I'm telling you is, this tells me one thing, is that we don't have enough money to
[1:10:49] pay for roads unless we take drastic measures on impact fees and if we don't take drastic
[1:10:55] measures on impact fees for roads then we'll have to take drastic measures on the tax
[1:11:01] payers. Now, let that sink in and it is a bit of a diversion from some of my previous
[1:11:10] positions. Now, what are the sooner impact fees all retain the right to continue to have
[1:11:16] opinions on those increases. But for this, if we make it fair, maybe engage the development
[1:11:22] community and really understand the timeframe that is fair so that people don't take financial
[1:11:30] losses because of this decision and timeline, I think we have to be prudent to that. But
[1:11:35] the quicker we get to an actual fee for the roads we're building, the less risk to the taxpayer.
[1:11:40] And we're here because, well, me, 20,000 people said that you need to look after our money.
[1:11:46] in some of you all, 80,000, and it's not me people vote, it sounds good, but I don't
[1:12:00] just represent the people that vote, and so I think we got this is kind of all this
[1:12:07] stuff is coming together and this is a great way to deal these problems, but they are
[1:12:12] There's a lot of problems.
[1:12:14] Do you got another comment there?
[1:12:16] I just want to be clear, my point was not to say that this should not happen.
[1:12:20] And also to the development community, no developer I've spoken to that is prudent
[1:12:26] in their conversation is saying that they don't think an increase is appropriate.
[1:12:31] Right? And I want to be clear that that doesn't come off because the taxpayer will be the one
[1:12:35] that ultimately wears this burden, and one comment maybe to my colleague of the board,
[1:12:43] we don't necessarily have to raise taxes. We may just not build roads.
[1:12:47] And the number one thing that our constituents are talking to us about is the problems that are
[1:12:52] facing us on roads and infrastructure. And so to be clear, this needs to happen. I want to make
[1:12:57] sure that we're good stewards of those who are building our community and give them enough runway
[1:13:01] that they can make prudent business decisions with projects that are going forward.
[1:13:04] Now, one final point, I want to learn about the communities that have pulled back on impact
[1:13:09] fees, Vernon.
[1:13:09] I thought I heard you say that at some point you can reduce these impact fees, and if
[1:13:13] that's happened in other communities across the country, I'd love to learn more about
[1:13:16] that.
[1:13:16] Well, Negan, who came from Florida, and pervasively, the jurisdictions there use impact fees.
[1:13:25] It's up to the board.
[1:13:26] Just as the discussion and their boards, just as the discussions you're having.
[1:13:30] And I remember, you know, looking in the periodicals I read in 2008, for example, seven when it settled back, if communities, you know, are pro-pro-development, regardless, then they would lower their impact fees to get that investment.
[1:13:51] But, you know, having mixed uses that create sales tax as well as residential does generate
[1:14:01] revenue to the community.
[1:14:02] So, sales tax is 60 percent of the money for our budget.
[1:14:06] That's right.
[1:14:08] But, you know, there's no magical solution.
[1:14:13] I said, Negan even mentioned it briefly when she was here a month and a half, two months
[1:14:17] to go about about that to try to help. Yeah, whatever you decide, then we'll work, work
[1:14:25] forward from there. And as alderman and you've all seen, the money has to come from somewhere
[1:14:30] and we're going to work on capital projects too. What's our capacity to remain a AAA community
[1:14:35] to maintain a quality of life? And I briefly touched on it. You know, we we've got a very desirable
[1:14:43] community. We make very good value-added decisions. But, we also go to restaurants, I used
[1:14:51] that example, real, where we see vacant tables because there's not enough servers that can
[1:14:59] Sir
[1:15:00] All right, we need to start moving forward. It's not just restaurants. It's everything. And it's not just Franklin. It's not just Tennessee. It's everywhere. So it's a bigger problem than what we are seeing and what we're talking about. But I just want to be clear too. I'm not. My frustration is not that I won't support using our fees. I mean, we know we have to have these. But I do think we need to stretch them out just a little bit.
[1:15:29] But and also we talked one more point, we did this a number of years ago but I think we
[1:15:38] need to be talking to the voters and the citizens of our city and saying because we hear
[1:15:44] all the time, roads, roads, roads, roads, roads and then we hear roads, roads, we keep here
[1:15:50] in the same thing.
[1:15:52] So a lot of people I've been talking to, we have had this discussion and they said what
[1:15:58] But if you raise taxes and then dedicated it just to improving some of your city roads and
[1:16:05] I think you all talked about maybe doing some work with state roads as well, maybe partnering
[1:16:11] and seeing how we can do that.
[1:16:13] So I'll just leave it at that, because we will probably have to have that discussion, but
[1:16:18] that involves our community.
[1:16:22] Next thing, ask that same constituent, would you rather than the new development pay more
[1:16:26] We need to pay more taxes every single time every single time they'll say new development pay more fees
[1:16:33] Item number nine is
[1:16:36] License plate application to install and operate law enforcement automated license plate recognition
[1:16:43] cameras on state highway right away with the Tennessee Department transportation
[1:16:47] We have benefited from being the recipient of a state grant that has allowed us to obtain
[1:16:53] I mean, license plate readers that we can install, I think at nine different intersections of Abbott, right?
[1:16:59] Sorry, it'll be 30 intersections when we're complete.
[1:17:03] Okay, the initial grant is 36 cameras, 34 cameras.
[1:17:08] Yeah, and then four mobile units.
[1:17:11] So this is a grant program that we have, but we need a license agreement with the state of Tennessee to allow the installation of those on areas that deal with state routes.
[1:17:22] So that's what we need to have you give us guidance on tonight.
[1:17:26] We have it on both agenda so we can keep this move and work in the process of installing right now.
[1:17:32] And my proctor's here with us from IT is help lead that charge.
[1:17:36] We also have chief Faulkner with us and Margaret or Comptroller from Finance.
[1:17:40] So that's what this covers.
[1:17:42] This provides the mechanism to have that agreement, that license agreement in place with the state of Tennessee.
[1:17:48] Is it for ticketing purposes or just for identification?
[1:17:51] We are not allowed to use cameras for ticketing at all.
[1:17:54] It is only law enforcement if there's a stolen vehicle or vehicle that there's a, you know,
[1:18:00] a need to track them down for some other law enforcement reason.
[1:18:05] That's what all it's used for.
[1:18:06] We are not allowed to use cameras for any form of traffic enforcement.
[1:18:10] What other cities in Tennessee are doing this?
[1:18:14] a lot of them. This is a statewide program. I don't have the whole number. It's it's it's cities across the state, and it is also bringing a common platform in terms of the technology across the state as well. Mike can probably add more to you.
[1:18:29] So Brentwood currently uses them now. I think you see Mount Juliet on the news a lot, but they've got selling, selling cars a lot. So Mount Juliet's up on the news. They put it to the news a lot where they've caught people out of national.
[1:18:41] with some vehicles come up there to their Golden Bear Parkway steel stuff go back to Nashville.
[1:18:47] So let's talk about it. It is it is states across the cities across the entire state that are
[1:18:51] recipients of this same grant. People get a little paranoid about this kind of thing and right,
[1:18:57] really so and as you said we don't use it for ticketing and that. But can you speak to what how
[1:19:04] this is used and you're not watching everybody out there with their license but you're looking
[1:19:11] Maybe there's a crime and you have a license plate and you're looking for that one or how does this work?
[1:19:15] Can you explain that to the public two things so one?
[1:19:18] There's a hot list published by published by the state of stolen plate stolen vehicles wanted persons
[1:19:25] So they would get alert if that car passes by a
[1:19:29] Camera the officer on do you would get alert that this this that we think this car passed by they'll verify that the camera
[1:19:42] the other thing would be is if a person wants to rob someone, or they get a plate at a crime scene, the plates are only allowed to be on the database for 90 days, so they can look 90 days as if that plate was there or not, at that point it's gone forever.
[1:20:01] the state law. Well, a child endangerment. Anything there's an amber alert or anything
[1:20:07] there's a alert for that plate is put into a hot list and we'll get it. So tell me one
[1:20:11] thing about that. So if we're you're observing that and you're looking for that plate and
[1:20:16] you see that plate, go across the intersection. What do you do with that and also how then
[1:20:22] you do track them down because they could be long gone? How's that tracked? So if there's
[1:20:29] an officer in the area, they can look for that vehicle.
[1:20:33] But so this is right.
[1:20:35] I mean, this is real time.
[1:20:37] Real time.
[1:20:37] So there's no one saying they're looking at the cameras.
[1:20:40] It's not being looked at at all.
[1:20:42] It's all technology.
[1:20:43] They get a hit on it, it goes to dispatch
[1:20:45] and dispatch puts it out to the police officer immediately.
[1:20:48] We've had seven of these.
[1:20:50] Last year we got 140 hits
[1:20:51] and there were stolen vehicles
[1:20:53] or wanted individuals in Franklin.
[1:20:55] So in real time.
[1:20:56] So we've been using mobile units
[1:20:59] for several years. This is an upgrade to put them in fixed positions as well as upgrade
[1:21:04] our mobile units. We have four mobile units. So this is something we can use and have been
[1:21:09] using as a really valuable tool.
[1:21:11] Good. Thanks for explaining that because I think a lot of people listening to this meaning
[1:21:15] or in the audience here probably, you know, don't know how that works. I just make sure it
[1:21:20] was real time and that they could. Yes. Because the technology should be there.
[1:21:25] We need to keep moving if it's okay.
[1:21:27] We need to go to item 10, which is an initial assessment recommendation of OHM Advisory
[1:21:34] Studio 8 Design Scope Services and fee for design development and construction documentation
[1:21:39] services and project management update for the new City Hall project.
[1:21:44] So one of the things you charge your new owner's rep with is a review of the proposed amendment.
[1:21:49] I think it's amendment 3 that is on your voting session that talks about the next stage
[1:21:54] for final design and construction documents with our architect and design team.
[1:21:59] So have Chris Keper here and the STV team to talk a little more about their review of
[1:22:06] that to prep you for the vote tonight and just give you an overview of kind of next steps
[1:22:10] in terms of their work.
[1:22:12] So Chris, take it away.
[1:22:14] Thank you all.
[1:22:14] Good evening.
[1:22:15] Yes.
[1:22:16] Yes, we've reviewed the architect PSA agreement, and we do recommend moving forward without
[1:22:21] agreement, letting them start or finish their SD design and move into DD design.
[1:22:26] Most of the language was addressed around collaboration and catering to a true CMAR agreement.
[1:22:33] So if we're managing that scope and that architect, we're trying to take care of all the risk.
[1:22:38] And some of that risk was just to make sure to line with the CMAR process.
[1:22:44] The rest of this presentation should go fairly quickly, but we've already started
[1:22:48] working on our shared site. The shared site is a access by all parties that we're going
[1:22:55] to allow and it'll have an administration rights to as well. So, BOMO have a folder,
[1:23:01] an architect will have a folder city and our core team will have folders with certain
[1:23:05] administration rights to where the architect necessarily can't go in and look in the BOMO
[1:23:10] folder so everything will have access. But that tracks the RFIs, that tracks any questions
[1:23:14] going forward throughout the life of the project. If there's a deliverable for an RFI being, for
[1:23:21] example, you know, with budget or VE that's pinned down to say we need to, we're going to need
[1:23:26] an answer on this and that keeps digging emails constantly to say we're getting ready, we need
[1:23:31] a decision on this, you know, is this a no-go-no situation. So that's what the shared side is set up
[1:23:37] and that should go live this week and we'll be sending out emails to give everybody access rights.
[1:23:44] So this gives you and the staff team an opportunity to follow the project in real time as it's
[1:23:49] moving forward, both to drive decisions as Chris is talking about as well as just keep track
[1:23:53] on how we're doing and what it's looking like in terms of progress with the project overall.
[1:23:59] And it all discusses the budget. It shows the whole dashboard of the project.
[1:24:03] We're working on WBS structure, codes, where each line item can track certain budgets.
[1:24:10] And here's a quick, quick picture of it.
[1:24:13] It's a snapshot before this goes live.
[1:24:15] This is kind of what it's going to look like.
[1:24:16] And you'll be able to go in, click on files,
[1:24:19] transmittles, whatever bucket you're wanting
[1:24:21] to dive into.
[1:24:24] And very user friendly.
[1:24:27] Schedule, we've worked on our detailed schedule.
[1:24:29] Now that the design team, or if it gets approved tonight,
[1:24:33] we'll be implementing that schedule going forward
[1:24:35] with hitting design development stages
[1:24:38] and driving the CMAR process forward.
[1:24:41] So we've got an initial timeline. We established this on my flip back and forth here. It's a lot more
[1:24:47] friendly than a true P6 schedule. I didn't think anybody wanted to look through 60-80 pages of
[1:24:53] a schedule right now, but we do have a general timeline talking about the architect agreement.
[1:25:00] The next steps and one of the deliverables at the end of this presentation is getting the
[1:25:04] CMAR advertisement out this coming month and having it ready before the next formal meeting and then move quickly into the CMR selection procurement process, working towards city moving,
[1:25:19] getting their new transition space, and then setting up the demolition package.
[1:25:23] And that goes back to with the architects agreement, is being able to establish those early procurement processes, those early design packages to where we can grasp a demo package early on,
[1:25:32] on our site utility package early on.
[1:25:38] And then second to last, the RFP, we've worked,
[1:25:42] we've got the draft getting ready to go out,
[1:25:44] we're gonna start getting ready to advertise,
[1:25:45] put on the city website the first week of May,
[1:25:49] and be ready to start getting some selection processes
[1:25:53] coming in.
[1:25:54] Right now we're in the middle of marketing,
[1:25:56] trying to generate a lot of interest
[1:25:57] into the CMAR, the GC market.
[1:26:01] Right, we've got a lot of potential,
[1:26:03] we've got probably, I'm gonna say five to seven
[1:26:05] that have shown interest already and we're trying to drive that up to 10 to 12 at this time.
[1:26:10] But as soon as it hits the streets, that's when we'll really start pushing that it's out there and aware.
[1:26:19] And then the last slide here is kind of the cost analysis.
[1:26:23] Keeping this project under budget is number one goal.
[1:26:27] And so next meeting we plan to have now the dark text on board start bringing some deliverables to the table for value engineered options, some cost drivers and decisions to be made.
[1:26:37] by the next moment.
[1:26:41] Do we have any parameters on the GC, like where they're from, middle Tennessee, Tennessee,
[1:26:50] Georgia, Alabama, I mean, we have any parameters on?
[1:26:54] Not at this time, the scoring is being looked at and we've got to draft it to where one
[1:26:59] of the categories is the locality, close to city, all the proximity location.
[1:27:03] And that's kind of going to be an internal discussion with the entire team.
[1:27:07] And as we go through the draft, which is going to be review session on Monday.
[1:27:12] So, but right now, that's kind of, we want as much interest as possible.
[1:27:16] But we also want to score that allows a local proximity to the project.
[1:27:22] I mean, I'd love to have whoever the GC is be here and kind of see.
[1:27:28] But I'm not opposed for us to looking around because we really need to do the right thing.
[1:27:35] to get the right company. Absolutely. So I don't I do want to be hamstrung with that either.
[1:27:42] All right, thanks. Competition is definitely our friend.
[1:27:49] Okay. So did you have a question
[1:27:52] all over the farm? Yeah, my bad comment. So you're looking tonight then. You're looking tonight.
[1:27:59] There's a $5,350,000 item on the agenda.
[1:28:04] A yes vote out of that that releases that to you,
[1:28:09] to go back to the design team,
[1:28:12] to continue the design process,
[1:28:15] has all of that design work been done,
[1:28:17] or a portion that had been done,
[1:28:19] or what, where are we on,
[1:28:21] spending $5,350,000?
[1:28:25] Because I thought, say,
[1:28:26] I'm on the impression that you should be looking for ways to not spend, okay?
[1:28:37] So, but, you know, we could done that last month if we wanted to do, if that's
[1:28:42] what we were looking for, that's not what I was, that's not what I was looking for,
[1:28:47] I was looking for ways for you guys to look at this project and you say it's
[1:28:52] under budget. That's 99 million dollars. Right now, is it not? Is it not? Is it 99 million dollars?
[1:29:02] That's what we've been looking at for the whole time. You have a number from schematic design.
[1:29:06] Right. Yeah. And you know, you need to populate your design team. None of that money's been spent.
[1:29:11] Right. We're waiting for you to give us the green light to move forward so that this design
[1:29:15] work can happen. And what will that's a companion to be able to do the value engineering that the
[1:29:22] the owners' rep wants to drive here.
[1:29:25] So you've really got to move into that portion of the process
[1:29:29] to be able to bring decisions back to you
[1:29:32] and for us to work through those opportunities
[1:29:34] to look at that budget
[1:29:36] and look at ways to drive that cost down potentially.
[1:29:40] And the reason, one of the things is the reason
[1:29:42] if we're looking at the discussion
[1:29:45] of some city hall interim space recommendations.
[1:29:48] And really, truly, we're not there yet, but there's none of that that's even under budget on what we've been using as a number that we budgeted for.
[1:30:01] We had a range. It's within the range. That's what we talked about next. Well, it's in the range
[1:30:07] because the range, you know, on what we looked at was anywhere from $3.8 million, $3.9 or whatever
[1:30:15] it was. So, I'm not confused, but I'm just curious as to what I should be looking for next
[1:30:25] But our next meeting, when you're bringing forth, what are you going to be bringing forth?
[1:30:38] Sorry, not good with technology.
[1:30:40] Yeah, so I want to go back to your first question because I don't think we answered it fully.
[1:30:44] So let me try to do that a little better with the review of the Architects agreement.
[1:30:49] It is the same price you saw last month. That is true.
[1:30:53] But what we did do is we changed the terms of that agreement.
[1:30:55] So, the architect is now committing to doing additional design packages, so that we can ideally speed up this project, and that will lead to savings, and we also removed exclusions from that contract that weren't in the city's interest.
[1:31:11] So, the fee did stay the same, but we feel it's a better value to the city at this point.
[1:31:16] So, there is not a savings in that contract, so to be clear there.
[1:31:19] And the memo that I think you've seen is includes those items that we've suggested be revised
[1:31:25] in that agreement.
[1:31:26] So that was what we focused on there.
[1:31:29] You're exactly right.
[1:31:30] We need to get the designer of the architect engaged so we can go through some of the options
[1:31:35] to value engineer the project and also to speed up the schedule of the project.
[1:31:40] And that's what we hope to bring back to you next meeting, assuming we can gauge the architect.
[1:31:45] We can't make those decisions in a vacuum.
[1:31:48] We really need to do it as a team if you don't mind introduce yourself. I'm so sorry
[1:31:53] My name is Derek Messier. I'm with us TV. I work with that Chris
[1:31:59] Do Alderman Barnhill's point. I think it's a great point and if you but if you look at the the Nima
[1:32:05] Which was very well done. Thank you and thanks because everything you just use you said about the really working of the contract
[1:32:11] It's done come off our bottom the number where we're voting on but future potential savings should
[1:32:18] different things happening. I'm that's good. The speed up the construction and
[1:32:22] help the inflation cost down the road, some of these things that might help with
[1:32:26] that. Now the other thing that would help, you've now defined the scope as an
[1:32:32] $83 million project in this, I mean this is not soft cost. This is the hard
[1:32:39] cost I would guess. Everything but the soft. It's in the memo. I think we just
[1:32:43] find the scope of the construction is 83 million. So the first question is that, is that,
[1:32:49] that's about, that's probably on par with the estimates that we had gotten from the
[1:32:53] two outside estimates, right? Okay. That's good. Except, I think it is good, but I, I think
[1:33:01] this is what we kind of tossed around and I'm curious with the board thinks about, you know,
[1:33:06] in working with you all is, is it, those are the cost estimates we've gotten from our schematic
[1:33:13] But to Alderman Barhill's point, what if we want to encourage additional value engineering
[1:33:22] and have it be board directed and I think targeted towards a dollar figure, and I'm not saying that's where it's going to end up.
[1:33:31] But at least you will give the team kind of a target and I wonder if we need to look at that and we would come up with a target.
[1:33:40] we would say all right the target is you know are 75 million dollars on that. I'm not saying that's
[1:33:48] what's going to ultimately be voted on built built but we would then be able to see these value
[1:33:53] engineering exercises or maybe you would do that no matter you know regardless of that number and I
[1:33:58] do trust that but I wonder if it would be helpful to have that kind of figure instead of using the
[1:34:02] cost estimate and to make it the most collaborative and engaging for everyone because I think
[1:34:09] probably some things have been off the table just because and different dynamics and so
[1:34:16] I wonder if that would be hoped for the board to give that number in this next phase
[1:34:20] and if now will be the time to do that.
[1:34:23] Again, not saying we're not going to do the 83 but giving the board some more transparency
[1:34:28] and feeling like we have been able to make some decisions that might come out of value engineering.
[1:34:33] If we are giving you, if you're going to the map to value engineer with a scope of the budget that we already have cost estimates for, then I don't imagine there's going to be a lot of pencil sharpening, although I know there's already been a lot that's been done.
[1:34:50] Yeah, and I know that was coming.
[1:34:52] I wouldn't say that that won't happen.
[1:34:54] No, you're going to have specific proposals that could generate a range of savings that will come back to you.
[1:35:00] So this is the question we do both push to a number but also listen to the options that drive
[1:35:06] a number. And I agree with that and I'm thinking to both but I guess
[1:35:11] what would you say is the most productive for us as a board to say do set a number or
[1:35:17] you'll just you know continue as it is and that's fine too but we will expect to see the
[1:35:21] you know kind of that. Right I mean yeah I think you said it very well we can do it either way
[1:35:26] But what I think is a clear expectation you should have from us is that is the starting place
[1:35:31] That's not the finish line right and your expectations of us is to look into that and bring you options that bring that number down
[1:35:38] If 75 is a number you want us to target then we won't work and develop options to bring it to that level if I was building the house
[1:35:45] Yeah, I'd tell the builder. I have them and I don't have a million dollars from house, but I would tell the builder
[1:35:51] I will I got a million dollar budget
[1:35:53] get to it. I wouldn't start with a 1.5 million dollar budget and say I would say this is where
[1:36:01] I'd be and maybe I can do 1.1 or 1.2 whatever but like that's what I do and I think that might
[1:36:07] be a combination so just whatever's respectful of the process I think we should consider. Thank you
[1:36:13] mayor.
[1:36:17] Okay we'll keep moving man we need need to do a presentation discussion about City Hall
[1:36:23] interim space and recommendations.
[1:36:28] So this is an important cost element to the project and also an important impact in terms of how we serve while City Hall is being built.
[1:36:37] So we wanted to walk you through the options that have been identified to this point and the cost ranges and timing and maybe
[1:36:45] understand to some of the service implications that might be related to walking through what those look like and get some guidance from you.
[1:36:53] So my hope would be maybe that we could get some guidance to do some further negotiation
[1:36:59] around an option or options to then refine that and bring that back to you for a final decision.
[1:37:06] But we worked on this Kelly, our city hall team has worked on and look at these options
[1:37:12] and want to walk through those with you tonight.
[1:37:14] So Kelly, take away.
[1:37:15] All right.
[1:37:15] Thank you.
[1:37:16] Today,
[1:37:19] we are going to cover the goals of the interim space and the approach that we've
[1:37:25] taken to date, some lease options that are available, the timeline, and then staff recommendation
[1:37:32] and then time for important BOMA guidance on where we go from here.
[1:37:39] So the overall goals are to continue efficient city operations and provide excellent customer
[1:37:45] service to ensure citizens efficiently access city hall services and to ensure that city employees
[1:37:53] have a smooth transition and a space to work effectively during the interim and to accommodate
[1:37:59] all of our many public meetings throughout the interim.
[1:38:05] The approach that we've taken to date is that we formed a city hall transition team with
[1:38:12] a couple members from each city hall department that have participated in ongoing meetings.
[1:38:18] We've toured several office buildings and discussed various needs and aspects of the transition
[1:38:24] that we need to plan for.
[1:38:25] We have evaluated space based on a two and a half to three year time frame and identified
[1:38:33] a place for our larger televised public meetings, which is Williamson County administrative complex
[1:38:39] who's willing to work with us.
[1:38:40] And then we've communicated with representatives with available office spaces.
[1:38:47] So next, we'll go through some of those.
[1:38:53] This is an overview of about five different approaches.
[1:38:58] A couple spaces in and around Cool Springs.
[1:39:01] There are likely other spaces that are available in Cool Springs as well, so this is representative
[1:39:07] of the overall cost of some least space in Cool Springs.
[1:39:13] and the costs that you'll see are based on a three-year term.
[1:39:18] So if our construction phase moves more quickly, we'll have less time in the interim space
[1:39:25] and that leads to cost savings there as well.
[1:39:28] So there's direct impact.
[1:39:30] So going through some of these, the first one is 1021 Wincross Court.
[1:39:36] It's off of Cool Springs Boulevard adjacent to Mack Hatcher Parkway.
[1:39:41] It's also next to the Artessa development.
[1:39:44] It's an office building that has three floors, 62,500 square feet, and
[1:39:50] handles staff on site.
[1:39:52] There's ample parking.
[1:39:54] It's an empty space right now, so it would need to be designed and
[1:39:58] furnished, which is also part of the cost of this.
[1:40:01] And also, fiber would need to be run to the buildings.
[1:40:03] so there's not quite access right there for that.
[1:40:07] So the estimated lease cost plus furnishings
[1:40:10] for the whole building like this is 6.2 million
[1:40:13] for that three-year timeframe.
[1:40:16] And right before we publish this packet,
[1:40:19] we learn that the dis-building is now on the market for sale.
[1:40:25] What is it going to do then?
[1:40:27] I don't know.
[1:40:30] I don't know.
[1:40:30] Yes.
[1:40:34] So the next site is 455 Duke Drive, it is the former Verizon call center, it's the
[1:40:43] second floor that's available in that and that is up to 100,000 square feet on the
[1:40:49] second floor alone.
[1:40:51] It would handle staff on site, it has ample parking, it is also an empty space so it would
[1:40:58] need designed and furnished, which is in that cost, plus fiber would be run to the building.
[1:41:05] And the estimated least cost plus furnishings for that is $8.2 million.
[1:41:12] But if there's less space that's needed, which there likely would be, that cost would come down.
[1:41:17] But we would know that after the space is fully designed on what our space needs are.
[1:41:22] Kelly, it's the furnishings for both buildings, the same costs, okay.
[1:41:28] And this one is available for lease.
[1:41:30] Now,
[1:41:34] this third option is 722 Columbia Avenue.
[1:41:39] It includes three different buildings.
[1:41:42] It's located between 7th Avenue South and 9th Avenue South.
[1:41:48] With a partial office building facing Columbia, that's the first bank building.
[1:41:53] a three-story building and parking garage behind that that faces the police station and it's
[1:42:02] parking garage and then the white building which is on 9th Avenue as well that is a smaller office
[1:42:08] space. So all three of those spaces combined are 35,300 square feet and it has 149 work stations in
[1:42:18] there already. It's fully furnished with the opportunity to add additional works spaces
[1:42:23] in some of the larger office spaces. It handles staff with some hybrid flexibility, parking
[1:42:30] is on-site and off-site. It's already furnished and it has fiber access already. The estimated
[1:42:38] lease cost for three years is 3.9 million and that's available January 1st, 2025, which
[1:42:45] which does better work with our timeframes that we're needing.
[1:42:50] The next one is 507 New Highway 96 West.
[1:42:56] It is the soon-to-be-former Franklin Special School District administrative offices.
[1:43:02] This is a smaller building.
[1:43:04] It's almost 8,000 square feet and has 19 existing work stations with some ability to add more.
[1:43:11] This one obviously doesn't meet the needs for our whole city staff, but it could be supplementary,
[1:43:18] complimentary to the overall needs that we have with a more direct customer interface with
[1:43:25] utility billing and revenues. There's some parking there, it is already furnished, it has
[1:43:31] fiber access. The lease cost is to be determined, we don't have that figure at this time and it
[1:43:38] It would be available in the spring of 2025 following the completion of their new administrative offices on Eddie Lane.
[1:43:48] And last, a modular office unit approach, it would possibly be 14 to 16 modular units to be located on various city properties.
[1:44:02] It could handle full staff based on the number of units that we would need.
[1:44:06] parking is to be determined however they come fully furnished and you can set
[1:44:12] them on the ground but they also have additional costs like utilities and
[1:44:18] possibly more parking for those uses. Fiber needs would also be to be
[1:44:25] determined as well based on where the location of these might be. The estimated
[1:44:31] made at least cost for that is 5.5 million for the three years and we would need to work
[1:44:36] further on identifying locations of those temporary modular units.
[1:44:41] And I'm going to turn it over to Vernon.
[1:44:45] Thank you, Kelly.
[1:44:46] And I do want to emphasize a couple things before I explain a little bit more about the work
[1:44:54] that's been done.
[1:44:55] And first of all, for over a year there have been represented.
[1:45:00] It is from each city department in city hall known as the transition team talking about, you know, the space needs, how to move, what we need, what we don't need. But what can we do with remote work? So we're to the point now that we want to be able to have guidance from yourself so we can act. And we have a recommendation that we feel fits our needs and is a reasonable cost.
[1:45:27] The second thing that's really most important is I want to take on to what Chris and Derek had said moving up the schedule will save money.
[1:45:39] And by this time next year we should be out of this building so that we can demolish this building by the fall and allow our CMAR.
[1:45:51] our Chris and Derek and our design team to look at early release packages that get them
[1:46:01] on this site and that translates into significant dollars.
[1:46:06] So as you think about this,
[1:46:10] Kelly shared an illustrated example of a couple buildings
[1:46:14] and then Wind Cross Court property was something that we had looked at.
[1:46:21] But as she said, the owners, it's a family out of Florida,
[1:46:27] advised us that they are going to put that property up for sale.
[1:46:32] And that illustrates the urgency of us being able to have guidance on how to act.
[1:46:37] Because we could still lease the property, but if they sell it,
[1:46:41] And somebody wants to move in and wants us out, that could be a problem, as I'm sure you notice.
[1:46:49] The Duke Drive property is 100,000 square feet on the second floor.
[1:46:54] After we did, if we did some planning and worked at fixturing it, we could probably take less and
[1:47:01] they're flexible on that.
[1:47:03] But in reality, the first bank building at 722 Columbia Avenue, and
[1:47:08] And it includes those three structures as part of their existing campus.
[1:47:13] They are consolidating their corporate offices, most of them in the Nashville area, and are going to have still a presence down in that building.
[1:47:24] But it's fully furnished, and even though they have interest, if we are able to give them a commitment very soon,
[1:47:33] And they would commence, we would negotiate at least, bring it back to you.
[1:47:39] And our initial conversations that we wouldn't take occupancy until January 1, 2025.
[1:47:48] Now, looking at our schedule for development of this site and occupying the building would
[1:47:54] be late summer, spring of 20, 27.
[1:47:58] So that gives us two and a half to three years to move up the schedule and reduce the lease, lease cost in this building.
[1:48:08] And that's essentially what we're asking for permission, as Eric mentioned,
[1:48:14] to proceed with negotiating a lease and bringing it back to you in the next month.
[1:48:25] We also have the timeline that Kelly put up, but I focused in on the fifth box there,
[1:48:33] which is demolition of the current city hall.
[1:48:36] And that's where our conversations have gone with Chris and Derek is that if we get this
[1:48:43] building on here, they can do what you've hired them to do.
[1:48:47] You know, we don't want to be an impediment to that.
[1:48:50] And how we've laid out the timeline and the project to move into the City Hall, we can deliver, but we can't deliver unless we're out of this building and have this building removed from the site.
[1:49:03] Can we move that timeline up?
[1:49:05] Good, that's the.
[1:49:06] It said January.
[1:49:07] That's the goal.
[1:49:09] But having some direction on this and getting out of this building helps drive our ability to move that schedule.
[1:49:16] It is not available to January 2025, but as you're telling us.
[1:49:20] that's the end of this year but I would think we'd need it before then but they
[1:49:26] wouldn't allow us to move into January well I think that that is about as
[1:49:30] aggressive as you probably can be to get operations in there and get that set so
[1:49:34] I I think that actually from everything we've looked at that fits very nicely but
[1:49:39] that's negotiable that we could maybe get in here and November December we need I
[1:49:44] don't know about that but I need your direction to be able to enter into
[1:49:47] negotiations. So I'd like to get that so we could look at this option which is recommended
[1:49:53] on a couple levels. It is the least expensive that we've seen. This number you see tonight
[1:49:58] is a starting point. I'd like to be able to negotiate further on that. And also the
[1:50:03] opportunity that we might be able to pair it with the Franklin Special School District
[1:50:07] administrative building as an option, especially as a customer service hub type of location.
[1:50:12] But collectively that we could get there in a timing that fits the project, helps us move this forward and have the opportunity to advance the project sooner, which saves us money.
[1:50:25] One of the numbers that is stuck in my head that we looked at is just on an inflationary basis every month is about $230,000.
[1:50:33] So that means every month we can cut off of there, we're saving that on an inflationary
[1:50:40] basis or on the flip side, every month where we're delayed because of something happens
[1:50:44] that that costs us.
[1:50:46] So just keeping that in mind and if the board is comfortable with this recommendation,
[1:50:52] ultimately we bring back a complete proposal for you to vote on and make a decision on, but
[1:50:58] if we can get guidance tonight to look at this option and develop it further both in terms
[1:51:02] a cost, timing, and the logistics of how that would fit our services to the community.
[1:51:09] We'd love to have that.
[1:51:11] Couple things I would highlight that maybe didn't quite get touched on.
[1:51:14] The proximity to our police administration building is nice.
[1:51:17] We've got the community room there and parking and some other things that we could leverage.
[1:51:22] Also within that facility, the first bank facility, again, we'd be occupying kind of the southern
[1:51:27] portion of it.
[1:51:28] There's a large training room that they have.
[1:51:30] That provides a lot of opportunity for us to use for smaller committee meetings, for other gatherings.
[1:51:37] It really works well.
[1:51:39] I've had the opportunity to walk through it.
[1:51:42] Kelly made the point.
[1:51:43] There are a number of offices that right now is a one person office that could easily be broken into two or even three
[1:51:49] because of the size of it and just looking at how we could work with that.
[1:51:53] And that along with some of things we've learned and being able to work in a hybrid environment,
[1:51:58] I think allows us to use that smaller space effectively in this interim period so with that that's our recommendation if the board is comfortable with that direction we'll we'll start to flush out those details and and bring something back to you as soon as we can.
[1:52:12] I wanted to say that if you really logically look at all this stuff, that looks like a best
[1:52:22] not.
[1:52:22] First of all, the cost is amazing.
[1:52:26] Second of all, the location is good.
[1:52:28] Near our police station, near downtown, near the cords, near the hub of the area where we
[1:52:33] are.
[1:52:35] Could you please expound on if you see, well, first of all, I think I'd like to know how many
[1:52:41] spaces are in that parking garage. I also think the Franklin Special School District
[1:52:45] would be a great place to have customer service so people could easily come and go and
[1:52:50] pay bills and do things like that off-site. But could you tell us if there's any real drawbacks
[1:52:56] or any cons that you see that we would have to deal with or would be a negative that stands
[1:53:02] out to Eric?
[1:53:04] Yeah, I'm referring to the rest of the team weigh-in too, but the things I would say that
[1:53:07] I see is it's just you're in three different they're close to each other but the three different locations
[1:53:11] So you got a little bit of fragmentation there
[1:53:14] We need to get exactly the number of parking spaces we would have in that garage because the the bank who will still have some
[1:53:20] operations and the northern portion of that of that mean building on Columbia
[1:53:26] But you know, it works well
[1:53:28] We would just it'd be like a little campus if you will with those three locations because the garage is wrapped with some office
[1:53:35] And then we've got the office and the main building and then the White House as it's called, which is lease space for them that could be available to us.
[1:53:44] Yeah, so all of those, we looked at it enough to know that we can make it work with our folks.
[1:53:51] It's not perfect in terms of the proximities and you're going to have to do a little bit of, you know, going between different buildings to make it work.
[1:54:00] But by a large it will work well and serve the community well in the location is a I think a really nice one for us holding the baggage and yeah, I just want to add on.
[1:54:13] It's something that I didn't I failed to mention but in Eric touched on you know being able to accommodate training and our boards and commissions that that me as far as board of Marin Alderman meetings.
[1:54:25] meetings, historic zoning commission meetings, the planning commission meetings, maybe board
[1:54:31] of zoning pills that are televised, we've contacted and talked to the county of using their
[1:54:38] facility because they are equipped to have the video and audio and access to the cable
[1:54:44] channels. So that is part of our ability in negotiating a lease to understand the space
[1:54:51] and then implementing a lot of the ideas that the transition team came up with so we have a smooth transition.
[1:54:59] The board meetings and planning commission meetings in particular fit well with the existing county commission and other in school board.
[1:55:09] So yeah, at this point those elements for sure fit well and that training space in this first bank building could meet a lot of other needs.
[1:55:16] What about all our equipment down here that we have now? We could not transfer that to some place that we can just set it up?
[1:55:22] We have some equipment that works in mobile settings, but the parts that are wired into this building are largely not going to be able to be transferred.
[1:55:32] Well, we'll transfer what we can. Let's put it that way.
[1:55:34] All right, all right, all right, all right. I would like to option two things on the, maybe, I mean, I understand the front of the special district office,
[1:55:44] But I do also think at least the police department requested a secretary this year in the budget so there may be some open customer service facing things in the lobby of the police building.
[1:55:56] I don't know.
[1:55:58] Also, I don't know, in First Bank, when you're negotiating, there was a customer service area for bank customers that I don't know.
[1:56:07] So maybe that has been moved back to, is that on the move to the, still there, but not in the other, okay, so never mind, but get creative, and I know you will.
[1:56:17] I think the main thing here are those last question, including the cost, does that also include kind of projections for the cost of moving?
[1:56:29] Is that included into this as well or is this kind of just the lease plus improvements?
[1:56:37] Does that make sense?
[1:56:38] This is a lease amount.
[1:56:41] This is a lease amount includes maintenance and it's just a lump sum lease cost that's based on a monthly.
[1:56:50] This is going to include like moving those are things that we will work with the transition team.
[1:56:56] the good news is, and which will reduce those costs, it is that it is fully furnished,
[1:57:02] which allows us to sell the items as we're required to do in this building without having to move
[1:57:12] significant amount of furniture. It's probably already wired and everything too.
[1:57:18] Yeah, so we still have to get a lot of the server and everything, but it is predominantly wired and
[1:57:24] just moving ready. It's a huge commission and negotiate though. I think the rate
[1:57:34] is fair but permission to negotiate. I'll do a pot. You hit on three of mine which
[1:57:45] was audio video, but I'm still open to the public and then also security.
[1:57:53] Those
[1:57:54] I do like this recommendation for 722 Columbia Avenue in the multiple buildings.
[1:58:00] One of the things I had here was temporary buildings could be across the city,
[1:58:06] in this case using the FSSD if we needed to, but the temporary buildings is temporary
[1:58:11] pain for the greater game, excuse me.
[1:58:16] And I also prefer this option because I want to keep the, if possible, keep the expenditure
[1:58:22] local so we're investing back into the community if these are locally on
[1:58:26] buildings and local local places. I'm in Barnhill. The one of the questions
[1:58:34] that I had was a space big it up to accommodate the Board of Mayor of
[1:58:39] all of the meeting. I think you've addressed it. The other one is the parking
[1:58:42] on site and off site for this. I would be very interested in knowing if you've
[1:58:51] We've got 250 parking spaces here, because that's what you've got here, is it not?
[1:58:58] You've got 200 employees, you've got 50 to 40 or 50 or 60 city vehicles sitting out
[1:59:03] there in the parking garage now.
[1:59:05] Those are going to have to go someplace.
[1:59:08] Now the HGL property is fenced off, so you cannot use that, which is what we've been using
[1:59:14] at some point in time, years ago maybe, but I would be interested to see if you've got
[1:59:21] that many parking places on that. Plus would you've got to have somebody else here that is coming out for a meeting or a meeting someplace whether you've got enough parking in those three areas right there to accommodate the parking on-site and on-site. And where is the off-site parking?
[1:59:42] We have ideas, but until we can negotiate a lease that you're favorable and it approving,
[1:59:54] we'll bring back now that you've given us guidance, we'll answer that.
[2:00:00] Okay. Part of this is in the time frame to move in is respecting the first bank team and how they're, you know, adjusting their operations. And also, they're going to separate this space, whether they lease it to us, somebody they've got to do some interior renovations to keep their operation separate and secure as well. But that is on our mind. And we'll bring something back when we bring that.
[2:00:29] at least back for you.
[2:00:31] We've also got an empty parking bag or an empty,
[2:00:34] and a transit stop right next to this building.
[2:00:37] So maybe, yeah.
[2:00:40] There's some options for off-site too that we've,
[2:00:43] we've looked at some ideas.
[2:00:46] If you don't want to go too far.
[2:00:47] All right, the mayor may have some ideas.
[2:00:51] Yeah, that is, I'm going to be hard to go to you
[2:00:54] with my spot.
[2:00:56] That's what bring a lot of money.
[2:00:59] Item 12 is awarding a construction contract in the amount of $7,830,530 to Garnie for the Lewisburg Avenue downtown area water and sewer improvement projects are by good with that one.
[2:01:14] This is going to bring back 65% funded by the ARPA dollars that we got in a competitive program or the secondary program.
[2:01:22] This is the direct allocation.
[2:01:25] Yes, that's not what the member says.
[2:01:28] Okay, I will change that.
[2:01:30] Yeah.
[2:01:31] And then item 13 will bring back and then 14 is wine and grocery store.
[2:01:37] So we'll see you back in the back.
[2:01:42] Wine and the grocery store.
[2:01:44] All right.
[2:01:45] See you in 715.