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Twenty eighth twenty twenty
six session to order.

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Tonight, we got several topics,

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and the first is the children's
services act fund briefing,

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and we'll hear from
Kristen Gallic,

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our social services director.

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Hi. Good evening.
Good evening. Hi.

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Good evening, mayor,
members of city council.

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My name is Kristen Gallowicz,

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I'm the director of social
services for the city of

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Fredericksburg.

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And I'm actually gonna
introduce Kristen Shores,

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who is our CSA coordinator,

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to give you a brief
update on where the

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program stands today.

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Thank you so much.

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All right.

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So we our plan today is just to
kind of give a quick overview

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of the Children's
Services Act CSA program,

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walk walk through some
trends of our population and

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expenditures, and then
talk about next steps.

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So for for those of
you who are not aware,

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the CSA program is a city program
that serves youth and their families.

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We're housed in DSS, but we
are a city program available to

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any of our child
serving agencies.

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We have funding services
available for children who

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meet our mandated population
that for us is children in

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foster care or with in
home services through

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DSS,

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youth with IEP
designations for private

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day placements, and youth at
risk for out of home placements.

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Those services to those
children are some sufficient.

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We are required to provide
services that are child

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centered, family focused,
and community based.

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We use CSA as the
funding of last resort,

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so we try to use services
available through insurance or

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community resources
before we come to CSA.

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We also look at to provide
least restrictive services for

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these families.

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Our our services
are matched by the

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state at an average rate
of sixty six percent.

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So then the city share ends up being
on average thirty four percent.

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We have two teams that kind
of oversee the program,

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our community
management policy team.

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CPMT is meant to provide

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policy and program oversight,

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and then our family assessment
planning team provides case

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and service oversight.

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So we are looking at
a service population.

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I will kind of frame a
framework to this is that our

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service population is
very unpredictable,

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very volatile.

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It can change the
drop of the hat.

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So we have, to the
best of our ability,

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projected projected
for FY twenty six,

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but that can all
change tomorrow.

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So we have provided
numbers based on our

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current population.

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Just as an example,
the last two weeks,

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ten children have
entered foster care,

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we've had three private day school
placements through the schools.

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So that has this
is all subject to

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change tomorrow.

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So you can see increases
across the board.

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The total youth served has
increased in the past five

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years from sixty nine to a projected
one hundred five for this year.

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Children in foster care
similarly has had almost a

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twofold increase.

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In children.

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That number represents kids who
were served in foster care at

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any point through
that fiscal year.

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In f y twenty twenty
two, that was forty four,

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and we are at eighty
for this fiscal year.

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Private day school placements
similarly have increased from

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twenty to twenty eight.

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Those private day school
placements are costly services,

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about four hundred
dollars a day for those,

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and those tend to be longer
term because they are

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school placements for children.

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They're it's driven
by their IEP.

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So they are there sometimes
for several years.

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And then out of home
placements are used

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as a last resort for kids
who are not able to remain safely

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in the community or
with their families.

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This is kids who need residential
placements, group home.

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It is the, I would say,

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most vulnerable
population that we serve.

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So those have increased
almost or more than triple

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from six in FY twenty twenty
two to nineteen this year.

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So we are seeing kind of
across the board increases.

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The expenditures have
nearly doubled for our

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projections this
year from this time

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in f y twenty twenty two.

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So we are projecting a little
over five million in expenditures.

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The majority of those are
private day school and out of

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home expenditures.

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We are also seeing an
increase in cost per child.

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A lot of these children have
what we call wraparound services.

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So we are providing
multiple services to address

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a number of needs that they

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have in different settings.

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So we are seeing not only the
the increase in the population,

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but it also an increase
in the cost per youth.

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So that brings us to our
current financial situation.

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You we have approved
allocation of four point one

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million with one point five for
the city chair or city share.

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Our projected budget
is five million.

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So you can see that we are
in need of some more money.

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So we are as we have spent a lot

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of time kind of combing
through our cases,

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our what we have kind
of in front of us,

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this is reflective of the
current population that we are

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serving and the current services
that they are receiving.

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We're also aware that there are
two more months in the fiscal

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year, so we

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we anything could happen.

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So we have brought this to CPMT
for the past several months,

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been talking about what that

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what this should look like,

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what we should we've been
working very closely with Mr.

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Whitley to come up
with projections,

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and this is the best available
data that we have for you.

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So, happy to answer
any questions.

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And I will say just, you know,

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just to piggyback on what
Kristen said is that Janon

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Holmes, counselor Holmes, serves
on CPMT as the counsel appointee.

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So we've been keeping, as a
member of CPMT, as well as Mr.

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Whitley.

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So just working with
them to make sure that,

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as Kristen said, this can change
tomorrow if we get more kids.

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You know, we had

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finalized adoptions,
consents for eight kids.

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And then a week later, got to
ten kids in care in two weeks.

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So it is a very
volatile population.

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We are mandated to
serve this population,

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but happy to answer, any
questions at this time.

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What's the average
age of a child?

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Is there an average age, or
is it just changed daily?

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So the it's simply older.

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And the older

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generally, the more costly given
the service needs that they have.

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I don't know if I could
give you a specific age,

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probably around
thirteen to fifteen.

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Yeah.

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Let me look at
those those lists.

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And I have not followed
the state budget on

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this, but and I know we don't
really have all the answers yet.

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But what does that look
like this year for The OCS,

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our office of
children's services,

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they had to go back and ask
general assembly formal money

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for FY twenty six,

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and then they have increased
for FY twenty seven as well.

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So across the board, expenditures
are are up for every everybody.

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Thanks, madam mayor.

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Do you have a sense of how
these numbers compare to other

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jurisdictions in our region?

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I mean, proportional to
population, obviously.

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Yeah.

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We are so everybody is
experiencing significant growth.

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I will say our schools our
schools do a great job of

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keeping kids out of
private day placements.

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Most of the growth in the
surrounding areas are related

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to the school expenses.

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Ours are related to
foster care expenses.

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Okay.

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So that makes us
different from you know?

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Are they seeing a
proportionally similar rate of

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growth in the population
served and the cost per

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per client?

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Our low our surrounding
localities, their budgets,

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I would say, are about
eighty percent school

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school related costs.

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So those are kind of set costs.

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And this and the general
assembly last year put a cap on

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those services for their
reimbursement rates.

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So that was a little
bit tamed by that.

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But in terms of
foster care placement,

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that can be a little bit
more unpredictable because,

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once the kid's in foster care,

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you kind of have to
come up with a plan

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To meet their needs.

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So that can that can
be less predictable.

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And typically, we're working
also with the families. Yes.

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So it's not Kristen talked a little
bit about the wraparound services.

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So not only are we
serving the child,

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but we're providing family
reunification support for the

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family and other supports to
either bring the child back

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home or

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support the family in other
ways, material supports.

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Thank you.

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This a trajectory,

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this increase that's happened
over the past five years,

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one that we expect to continue?

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That's a great question.

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Is it is it reflective
of is that, like, normal?

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In other words, is it always
if you took any five year grab,

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would you would you see that
sort of increase steadily?

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Yeah.

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And can you point to
anything that is it just

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is it mostly connected to just the
growing population in in Fredericksburg,

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or is there do do you know if
there's any other these are

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very easy questions.

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Yeah. Yes. Right. Exactly.

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There

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definitely if you look on the
foster care and out of home

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placements in FY24 was a significant
jump in both of those areas.

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I don't think that there's any one
reason that that has that jumped up.

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But I will, I mean, just
as a general statement,

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the children that
we are serving is

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they're way more complex than
we than they were ten years

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ago, five years ago in terms
of the traumas that they've

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experienced, the
needs that they have.

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So the services
available haven't

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quite caught up to
the service needs.

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Okay.

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So that's when we start looking
at wrapping around services.

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That's when kids are at risk
for out of home placements.

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So that that is

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across the board.

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I think our foster care
numbers definitely spiked more than our

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surrounding localities.

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But as a general, foster
care numbers are up.

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The

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the out of home placements are up
for for everybody across the state.

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And that's when we can't put them when
we can't put them in a local home.

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Because when when children
come into care older,

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the trauma, the the the mental

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health issues, the behavioral
issues are just much more severe.

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So it requires a
higher level of care.

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Typically, it's an
out of home placement,

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a residential placement,
which, I mean, most I mean,

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gratefully, we're able
to place them in state.

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But there are some instances
where we have to place them out

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of state because their
behaviors are so significant

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that there are no Virginia residential
facilities that will take them.

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So but coupled I
mean, when I started,

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our kids in care were eighteen,
nineteen kids in foster care.

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We're now seeing we just
hit the sixty mark. Right.

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So that's gonna drive so that
along with cost per child,

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just is a combination of things.

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But you can't really we can't
put our finger on one thing.

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No.

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That all makes sense.

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Thank you. Thank
you. Miss Owens?

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I was just gonna
add that, you know,

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when you talk to people
who work in the schools,

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that they're also seeing, like,

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a higher level of
behavioral issues.

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So, like, we would say,
like, the acuity is higher.

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00:13:33,460 --> 00:13:37,620
Whereas and where, like, some
of the kids who now are served

250
00:13:37,620 --> 00:13:39,580
within the schools

251
00:13:40,595 --> 00:13:43,395
probably fifteen years ago
might have been in the out of

252
00:13:43,395 --> 00:13:44,275
school placement.

253
00:13:44,275 --> 00:13:44,515
Okay.

254
00:13:44,515 --> 00:13:48,115
So I think that that and I don't
know how that all works together.

255
00:13:48,115 --> 00:13:50,755
But when you all were talking,
it occurs to me that, like,

256
00:13:50,755 --> 00:13:52,950
we hear the same
things in the schools.

257
00:13:52,950 --> 00:13:54,390
Got it. Yeah.

258
00:13:54,390 --> 00:13:56,270
Yeah. Yeah.

259
00:13:57,750 --> 00:14:01,110
Could you also just
talk about, like,

260
00:14:01,110 --> 00:14:04,710
when do you feel like because
we talked about this a little

261
00:14:04,710 --> 00:14:07,550
at CPMT that

262
00:14:08,065 --> 00:14:11,985
some of our services
for unhoused families

263
00:14:11,985 --> 00:14:15,265
or families of domestic
violence and those kinds of

264
00:14:15,265 --> 00:14:21,065
things are within the city Then how
that affects these numbers as well.

265
00:14:21,105 --> 00:14:21,505
Yeah.

266
00:14:21,505 --> 00:14:26,310
So so particularly for social
services in the schools,

267
00:14:26,310 --> 00:14:29,830
if a family is just passing
through Fredericksburg and an

268
00:14:29,830 --> 00:14:33,270
incident happens or if they're
utilizing one of the shelters,

269
00:14:33,270 --> 00:14:34,750
that is our family.

270
00:14:34,795 --> 00:14:37,675
So a lot of the families that
are transient that end up at

271
00:14:37,675 --> 00:14:41,115
Hope House or end up at Mary
Shelter and then something

272
00:14:41,115 --> 00:14:44,235
happens that requires the
child to come into foster care,

273
00:14:44,235 --> 00:14:46,730
we are now going to,
that is our child.

274
00:14:46,730 --> 00:14:49,130
We're going to serve that child
and family no matter whether

275
00:14:49,130 --> 00:14:52,570
they're passing through or
this is their first night here.

276
00:14:52,570 --> 00:14:57,130
So we have several
families that were literally driving

277
00:14:57,130 --> 00:14:59,715
through Fredericksburg that
then something happened,

278
00:14:59,715 --> 00:15:03,795
and we have there and we
have to navigate that.

279
00:15:03,795 --> 00:15:07,715
And if they if they come to
one of those places and they

280
00:15:07,715 --> 00:15:09,555
already have an IEP Yes.

281
00:15:09,555 --> 00:15:11,555
For an out of school placement,

282
00:15:11,555 --> 00:15:13,430
then we have to
honor that right.

283
00:15:13,430 --> 00:15:15,230
Automatic. That's correct.

284
00:15:15,830 --> 00:15:17,150
Yep.

285
00:15:20,230 --> 00:15:23,750
Any other questions
for you and Ms.

286
00:15:23,750 --> 00:15:25,590
Shores or Ms. Gallen?

287
00:15:25,590 --> 00:15:25,910
No.

288
00:15:25,910 --> 00:15:27,430
But since they rarely come here,

289
00:15:27,430 --> 00:15:30,435
I think we should mention
that miss Shores is an award

290
00:15:30,435 --> 00:15:34,275
winning CSA coordinator,
and we like to

291
00:15:34,275 --> 00:15:36,755
we like to bring out her trophy.

292
00:15:36,755 --> 00:15:37,475
Like, let me.

293
00:15:37,475 --> 00:15:38,995
So I just wanna You're welcome.

294
00:15:38,995 --> 00:15:39,395
Thank you.

295
00:15:39,395 --> 00:15:40,915
Well, thank you for
all of your support.

296
00:15:40,915 --> 00:15:41,395
Thank you.

297
00:15:41,395 --> 00:15:42,955
Thank you. Okay.

298
00:15:45,210 --> 00:15:46,330
Mr. Whitley, yeah, sure.

299
00:15:46,330 --> 00:15:48,850
I'll just follow-up
for counsel that

300
00:15:48,890 --> 00:15:52,490
this discussion will tee up and
we'll bring forth for y'all's

301
00:15:52,490 --> 00:15:57,090
consideration a fiscal
twenty six budget amendment.

302
00:15:57,755 --> 00:15:59,595
It's a significant
amount of funds.

303
00:15:59,595 --> 00:16:04,355
So, we're still working on a plan to
we ought to consider to fund that.

304
00:16:05,755 --> 00:16:07,795
Fiscal twenty seven

305
00:16:08,875 --> 00:16:11,870
does have an increase in
funding both in local transfer

306
00:16:11,870 --> 00:16:13,550
and overall.

307
00:16:13,550 --> 00:16:15,630
We hope it's enough.

308
00:16:15,630 --> 00:16:18,830
The trend lines are obviously
spiking at the moment.

309
00:16:18,830 --> 00:16:22,390
Hopefully, they'll level
off but hard to say.

310
00:16:22,990 --> 00:16:26,695
But that is one of the things
you'll see in the budget is

311
00:16:27,215 --> 00:16:30,855
between twenty six and twenty
seven is an increase to CSA.

312
00:16:32,575 --> 00:16:35,775
So we'll be back to see
you in a couple weeks,

313
00:16:35,775 --> 00:16:38,735
but wanted to make sure
y'all had a heads up.

314
00:16:38,735 --> 00:16:39,060
Okay.

315
00:16:39,060 --> 00:16:40,260
Thank you, mister Kelly.

316
00:16:40,260 --> 00:16:40,820
Thank you all.

317
00:16:40,820 --> 00:16:43,900
Thank you. Thank Thank
you. Good to see you.

318
00:16:44,260 --> 00:16:45,340
You.

319
00:16:47,060 --> 00:16:50,580
Mister Whitley, that sort
of segues into your budget

320
00:16:50,580 --> 00:16:52,900
presentation or discussion.

321
00:16:52,900 --> 00:16:55,075
That's why twenty twenty seven.

322
00:16:55,355 --> 00:16:59,315
And, yes, you did give us a
heads up on that number going up

323
00:16:59,595 --> 00:17:02,555
in twenty twenty seven,
unfortunately, sadly, I guess.

324
00:17:02,555 --> 00:17:05,235
But thank you. Yeah.

325
00:17:05,755 --> 00:17:07,835
Hopefully, the the
services work well,

326
00:17:07,835 --> 00:17:09,475
and the kids will be.

327
00:17:11,250 --> 00:17:15,610
So tonight, we just
wanted to have full year

328
00:17:16,050 --> 00:17:18,450
kind of a work session topic.

329
00:17:18,450 --> 00:17:22,610
There are several
budget notes done.

330
00:17:22,610 --> 00:17:25,210
So I'm sure y'all are all aware.

331
00:17:25,625 --> 00:17:27,545
Go through them really quick.

332
00:17:27,545 --> 00:17:31,785
And I'm gonna reverse out
because we have the first read

333
00:17:31,785 --> 00:17:35,145
on ENT fees, first read on
board and tour availability

334
00:17:35,145 --> 00:17:39,970
fees, first read on
board and tour rates.

335
00:17:40,570 --> 00:17:44,570
First read on real estate tax
rate at eighty four cents.

336
00:17:44,570 --> 00:17:47,010
And first read on the budget.

337
00:17:47,290 --> 00:17:50,130
And just wanted to take a moment

338
00:17:50,410 --> 00:17:53,825
to thank counsel for all the

339
00:17:53,825 --> 00:17:54,865
hard work and review.

340
00:17:54,865 --> 00:17:57,665
And there's a lot of staff
that kind of pulls the budget

341
00:17:57,665 --> 00:18:00,625
together for the finance
and the city manager's team.

342
00:18:00,625 --> 00:18:03,105
It gets to y'all and y'all
really go through it.

343
00:18:03,105 --> 00:18:05,190
And we appreciate that.

344
00:18:06,110 --> 00:18:10,030
There's a few things on for
tonight in terms of the budget

345
00:18:10,030 --> 00:18:12,510
for first reading does
have a school number,

346
00:18:12,510 --> 00:18:14,670
and the school
number is you know,

347
00:18:14,670 --> 00:18:17,710
the city manager's recommended
increase in transfer plus the

348
00:18:17,710 --> 00:18:19,590
three hundred thousand in state.

349
00:18:20,315 --> 00:18:21,755
When they came a
couple weeks ago,

350
00:18:21,755 --> 00:18:23,755
they said that they felt
very comfortable that was a

351
00:18:23,755 --> 00:18:25,115
conservative number.

352
00:18:25,115 --> 00:18:28,235
We obviously don't have a state
number yet because the state

353
00:18:28,235 --> 00:18:29,875
budget is,

354
00:18:30,315 --> 00:18:32,635
I know, over time,
double over time.

355
00:18:32,635 --> 00:18:36,090
I'm not sure what what
the right analogy is.

356
00:18:36,090 --> 00:18:36,650
Box.

357
00:18:36,650 --> 00:18:38,650
Yeah. It it could go.

358
00:18:38,650 --> 00:18:41,450
But we felt
comfortable giving the

359
00:18:41,450 --> 00:18:45,250
first read request for
y'all's consideration.

360
00:18:45,610 --> 00:18:48,175
They they obviously would
appreciate clarity as they work

361
00:18:48,175 --> 00:18:50,215
on the contracts and things.

362
00:18:50,735 --> 00:18:51,695
So that's the number.

363
00:18:51,695 --> 00:18:56,375
And we are gonna meet with them
at a staff level and a and a

364
00:18:56,655 --> 00:18:59,550
mayor and chair level to
discuss the fund balance and

365
00:18:59,550 --> 00:19:00,670
possible uses of fund balance.

366
00:19:00,670 --> 00:19:04,150
So second read may not
look like for sure we have

367
00:19:04,190 --> 00:19:06,710
identified a plan
that we're working on.

368
00:19:06,910 --> 00:19:09,190
Hopefully, can all
come to agreement.

369
00:19:09,390 --> 00:19:11,710
In terms of the other
things that are on,

370
00:19:11,710 --> 00:19:16,005
we've been working very
**** ** some specific ideas.

371
00:19:16,005 --> 00:19:18,085
A lot of those
propositions are in.

372
00:19:18,085 --> 00:19:21,045
There may be a couple that
we still have to catch up to.

373
00:19:21,045 --> 00:19:23,605
So there may be some
changes on second read.

374
00:19:23,605 --> 00:19:27,845
But we just want to remind you
that that that y'all have a

375
00:19:27,845 --> 00:19:31,350
budget that's pretty
momentous in front of you.

376
00:19:31,350 --> 00:19:33,590
We're gonna build
a fire station.

377
00:19:33,590 --> 00:19:36,590
That's part of this
budget capital funds.

378
00:19:37,110 --> 00:19:39,110
Gonna adopt a public
safety pay plan.

379
00:19:39,110 --> 00:19:42,995
That's a great step plan that'll
put us on the same basis.

380
00:19:42,995 --> 00:19:45,915
And we really appreciate
your support for that.

381
00:19:46,115 --> 00:19:49,075
Additional employee
compensation for some career

382
00:19:49,075 --> 00:19:51,955
letters and then, you know,
four percent for the employees.

383
00:19:51,955 --> 00:19:56,035
I think we're up to ten
new positions now with the

384
00:19:56,035 --> 00:20:01,520
additional from including a
lot of help with fire service,

385
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,360
and we we do
appreciate all of that.

386
00:20:04,360 --> 00:20:06,440
There's obviously more
money for schools,

387
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:09,560
more money for DSS,
more money for CSA,

388
00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,515
and we just are very grateful
for all your support and

389
00:20:12,515 --> 00:20:14,595
consideration of those items.

390
00:20:14,595 --> 00:20:18,195
I wanted to kind of back up
away from some of the specific

391
00:20:18,195 --> 00:20:20,275
things, and we're happy
to get back into those.

392
00:20:20,275 --> 00:20:25,155
But there's a lot in here
and a lot of big things,

393
00:20:25,155 --> 00:20:26,640
a lot of big changes
for our community.

394
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,440
So I just wanna
remind you of all

395
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:33,400
that and and appreciate your
consideration and support.

396
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:39,120
With that, I'll stop,
and we're happy.

397
00:20:39,120 --> 00:20:42,375
We're here, and we're happy to
answer any questions you might have,

398
00:20:42,375 --> 00:20:44,215
any topics, any thoughts,

399
00:20:44,215 --> 00:20:47,135
or considerations that you
might wanna bring back on.

400
00:20:48,215 --> 00:20:50,615
Before we talk about any issues,

401
00:20:50,615 --> 00:20:55,930
I'm gonna hear disclosures
from council members.

402
00:20:56,050 --> 00:20:59,650
Thank you. I'd like
to read my disclosure.

403
00:20:59,650 --> 00:21:02,450
My wife is employed by the Federal
University Public School System,

404
00:21:02,450 --> 00:21:05,970
and I can participate in this
conversation or any transaction

405
00:21:05,970 --> 00:21:08,410
fairly objectively and
in the public interest.

406
00:21:08,735 --> 00:21:12,575
And I provide contract mental
health services for the city

407
00:21:12,575 --> 00:21:16,895
schools, and I can participate
fairly objectively and

408
00:21:16,895 --> 00:21:18,935
within the public interest.

409
00:21:19,135 --> 00:21:21,095
You. Okay.

410
00:21:21,935 --> 00:21:22,980
Are there any questions?

411
00:21:22,980 --> 00:21:24,100
Thanks very much.

412
00:21:24,100 --> 00:21:25,140
Yeah. Mayor Frank.

413
00:21:25,140 --> 00:21:27,900
I just just wanna I'll
just make a comment

414
00:21:28,020 --> 00:21:31,020
on on kinda what you
touched base on earlier.

415
00:21:31,220 --> 00:21:35,475
I hope that I hope
that the schools can

416
00:21:35,475 --> 00:21:36,595
figure out a solution.

417
00:21:36,595 --> 00:21:37,475
I just wanna say that.

418
00:21:37,475 --> 00:21:40,195
We had our
presentation last week.

419
00:21:40,195 --> 00:21:41,315
Well, we had another
presentation.

420
00:21:41,315 --> 00:21:44,915
We had a conversation last
week at our own work session.

421
00:21:44,915 --> 00:21:49,680
So hope that something can be
worked out that it makes sense.

422
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:51,000
You know?

423
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,840
We we now know that they
are, you know, in a sense,

424
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:59,520
a surplus of funds that
can be used or redirected,

425
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,160
and I I hope that
that works out.

426
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,105
I we talked about it last week,

427
00:22:04,105 --> 00:22:05,465
but I just want to
say it again today.

428
00:22:05,465 --> 00:22:07,465
I hope that, you know,

429
00:22:07,465 --> 00:22:10,585
I hope we come to a to
a point that that makes sense where we

430
00:22:10,585 --> 00:22:15,145
don't have to raise taxes anymore
than we're doing this year.

431
00:22:15,145 --> 00:22:17,860
And, you know, for the
public's sake, you know,

432
00:22:17,860 --> 00:22:20,860
we do realize what the
increase was last year

433
00:22:20,900 --> 00:22:23,860
in this tax rate, and we
know what it looks like this year.

434
00:22:23,860 --> 00:22:27,620
And we're trying to stay away
from maxing that out this year

435
00:22:27,620 --> 00:22:29,085
from what we proposed.

436
00:22:29,085 --> 00:22:32,085
So I hope that we can
stay away from that.

437
00:22:32,365 --> 00:22:35,325
And totally understanding that
folks are getting priced out of

438
00:22:35,325 --> 00:22:37,285
the city of Fredericksburg.

439
00:22:37,645 --> 00:22:39,885
It's just just the way the
world is and what's happening.

440
00:22:39,885 --> 00:22:42,870
So instead of, you know,

441
00:22:42,870 --> 00:22:45,510
kinda pointing a finger at us and saying
that we're the ones that's doing it,

442
00:22:45,510 --> 00:22:50,590
I wanna say that we're working as hard
as we can not to not to be the reason.

443
00:22:51,030 --> 00:22:53,510
Things had to be done. We
had to pay for services.

444
00:22:53,510 --> 00:22:56,110
We need a fire station.
You gotta pay for that.

445
00:22:56,310 --> 00:22:59,685
There was a cry from the
public for for a new school.

446
00:22:59,685 --> 00:23:01,445
We did that. It's
gotta be paid for.

447
00:23:01,445 --> 00:23:04,965
So it's just the reality
of how things go. So yeah.

448
00:23:04,965 --> 00:23:07,965
But it's not easy in
in this budget season.

449
00:23:08,165 --> 00:23:11,285
Any budget season is is really
is really not easy when we look

450
00:23:11,285 --> 00:23:13,500
at, you know, what
what we have to do.

451
00:23:13,500 --> 00:23:17,300
And then also we look at
what we totally can't do,

452
00:23:17,900 --> 00:23:19,900
you know, based on
what I just said.

453
00:23:19,900 --> 00:23:21,180
We could do
everything, actually,

454
00:23:21,180 --> 00:23:23,260
if we we just keep
raising the taxes,

455
00:23:23,260 --> 00:23:25,580
but it's it's not beneficial.

456
00:23:25,580 --> 00:23:29,265
So that's all. I just want
that was my comment, really.

457
00:23:29,785 --> 00:23:33,065
Advice mayor Fry and I will be
meeting the staff and school

458
00:23:33,065 --> 00:23:38,305
staff tomorrow just to
have another discussion.

459
00:23:38,985 --> 00:23:43,050
So Okay. Thank you. Are there
any other questions for Mr.

460
00:23:43,050 --> 00:23:45,810
Whitley about the budget?

461
00:23:46,090 --> 00:23:49,690
I I do wanna kinda echo what vice
mayor Freiberg said about, you know,

462
00:23:49,690 --> 00:23:53,130
it's always a challenge
with wants and needs and the

463
00:23:53,130 --> 00:23:57,090
direction, you know,
we we're going in and

464
00:23:57,155 --> 00:24:00,355
taking on projects that
we've put off for a long time

465
00:24:00,355 --> 00:24:05,155
that simply can be put off,
you know, fire station,

466
00:24:05,155 --> 00:24:06,115
wastewater treatment.

467
00:24:06,115 --> 00:24:09,835
I mean, there's there's absolute
needs that have to happen.

468
00:24:10,195 --> 00:24:14,490
But I also just wanna commend
staff again to for bringing us

469
00:24:14,490 --> 00:24:16,130
a budget that,

470
00:24:16,890 --> 00:24:21,850
you know, meets those needs
in as realistic and economical

471
00:24:21,850 --> 00:24:23,610
way as possible.

472
00:24:23,610 --> 00:24:25,745
So thank you for that.

473
00:24:25,865 --> 00:24:30,905
And I I don't wanna thank
all the budget staff team.

474
00:24:30,905 --> 00:24:32,265
But I also wanna
thank our, you know,

475
00:24:32,265 --> 00:24:36,545
my fellow council members for the
discussions we've had and the,

476
00:24:36,985 --> 00:24:40,940
you know, things we've pointed
out to each other and the concerns

477
00:24:40,940 --> 00:24:45,180
we've all had for our community
and the attempts we make to

478
00:24:45,180 --> 00:24:46,060
meet those needs.

479
00:24:46,060 --> 00:24:49,060
So thank you all for the
discussions we've we've had.

480
00:24:51,500 --> 00:24:52,740
Miss Holmes?

481
00:24:52,945 --> 00:24:56,545
I I called Tim earlier
today because I wanted

482
00:24:56,545 --> 00:24:58,145
clarification,

483
00:24:58,145 --> 00:25:01,345
and I was just having with
the the water increases.

484
00:25:01,345 --> 00:25:05,785
So we have the the eight
percent for everyone.

485
00:25:05,905 --> 00:25:10,330
Fifteen point four
percent if they have a

486
00:25:10,330 --> 00:25:14,970
the bigger, like, pipe
going in and people are

487
00:25:14,970 --> 00:25:16,570
taking or, like, it's, like,

488
00:25:16,570 --> 00:25:19,050
one inch versus you were
talking about, like,

489
00:25:19,050 --> 00:25:20,970
the is it the meter size?

490
00:25:20,970 --> 00:25:21,895
It's not the height.

491
00:25:21,895 --> 00:25:25,735
It's the It's the use it's the

492
00:25:25,735 --> 00:25:29,455
usage, but it's like
but it's but it's also

493
00:25:29,895 --> 00:25:33,510
if there is something about the
You did pay more than a meter.

494
00:25:33,510 --> 00:25:34,070
Yes. Yeah.

495
00:25:34,070 --> 00:25:36,310
For for the different
meter. Okay. That's right.

496
00:25:36,310 --> 00:25:37,750
So That has always
been turned over.

497
00:25:37,750 --> 00:25:38,550
Right.

498
00:25:38,550 --> 00:25:42,710
So but they people are
not paying more until they

499
00:25:42,710 --> 00:25:46,165
go over that twenty
five thousand gallon

500
00:25:46,165 --> 00:25:48,685
threshold for two months.

501
00:25:50,485 --> 00:25:51,525
Yes.

502
00:25:51,525 --> 00:25:54,045
With the caveat well, all

503
00:25:54,885 --> 00:25:57,605
of the rates are going
up eight percent.

504
00:25:57,605 --> 00:25:57,845
Right?

505
00:25:57,845 --> 00:26:00,405
So so I wanna be careful about
not So the so the fifteen the

506
00:26:00,405 --> 00:26:02,100
fifteen point four
percent doesn't kick in,

507
00:26:02,100 --> 00:26:04,140
is what I'm saying,
until That's right.

508
00:26:04,500 --> 00:26:06,900
And so I went back through,

509
00:26:06,900 --> 00:26:09,220
and we've had multiple
discussions on this.

510
00:26:09,220 --> 00:26:13,655
And I just wanted to kind
of clarify that piece.

511
00:26:13,655 --> 00:26:16,935
And then the other thing that
I and so we talked a lot about,

512
00:26:16,935 --> 00:26:19,055
like, you know, is this gonna be

513
00:26:19,895 --> 00:26:23,655
passed on to people who are
living in apartments and those

514
00:26:23,655 --> 00:26:25,270
kinds of dwellings.

515
00:26:25,270 --> 00:26:29,150
And and we we've been
encouraging density.

516
00:26:30,070 --> 00:26:32,710
And we have to pay for
the water treatment plant,

517
00:26:32,710 --> 00:26:34,470
and we have to pay
for the the water.

518
00:26:34,470 --> 00:26:38,830
So I was what my
question was was could we

519
00:26:39,590 --> 00:26:40,845
kind of re you know, like,

520
00:26:40,845 --> 00:26:45,325
evaluate this six months and
a year with the new rates

521
00:26:45,325 --> 00:26:50,085
and see, like, how that's
going just to kind of monitor?

522
00:26:50,605 --> 00:26:53,005
I would say, absolutely. Right.

523
00:26:53,005 --> 00:26:54,920
I mean, we probably
would anyway,

524
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,000
but I just want to put
it out there that, like,

525
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,480
let's just see what
how it shakes out.

526
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,000
And, you know, maybe people
are using less water.

527
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:07,815
Maybe but but I don't
I do want to keep an

528
00:27:07,815 --> 00:27:11,815
eye on the burden that might
be passed on to people who are

529
00:27:11,815 --> 00:27:13,815
living in apartment buildings.

530
00:27:13,815 --> 00:27:17,695
I would say that to

531
00:27:17,895 --> 00:27:21,730
it won't be a year because
it'll be more like six to nine

532
00:27:21,730 --> 00:27:23,570
months when we're back
in the budget process.

533
00:27:23,570 --> 00:27:24,450
You said Minimum.

534
00:27:24,450 --> 00:27:26,610
Thank you. Yeah. Great.

535
00:27:26,610 --> 00:27:29,330
And then if it's if we
need to before that,

536
00:27:29,330 --> 00:27:30,930
we'll definitely
come and see you.

537
00:27:30,930 --> 00:27:31,970
Okay.

538
00:27:31,970 --> 00:27:35,395
And to remind people with
the new bathroom meters that they

539
00:27:35,395 --> 00:27:40,915
can kinda keep an
eye on water usage in

540
00:27:40,915 --> 00:27:42,915
Okay. You know, just Yeah.

541
00:27:42,915 --> 00:27:44,995
If if they're seeing a spike
or something, you know,

542
00:27:44,995 --> 00:27:48,435
there are ways that people can
take a look at it and address

543
00:27:48,435 --> 00:27:49,830
it maybe more quickly.

544
00:27:49,830 --> 00:27:50,390
Absolutely.

545
00:27:50,390 --> 00:27:51,390
So,

546
00:27:51,910 --> 00:27:52,870
Mr. Rowe?

547
00:27:52,870 --> 00:27:53,910
Thank you, madam mayor.

548
00:27:53,910 --> 00:27:55,750
Just for one clarification,

549
00:27:55,750 --> 00:27:59,430
it was we can go back and take
a look at how everything's been

550
00:27:59,430 --> 00:28:02,710
charged and what consumption that
we have on tier one and

551
00:28:02,710 --> 00:28:04,635
tier two a few months from now.

552
00:28:04,635 --> 00:28:07,995
But if we want to look at maybe
doing something different,

553
00:28:07,995 --> 00:28:10,315
just to clarify from
something from last week,

554
00:28:10,315 --> 00:28:12,795
we would deem like a
fuller study for that.

555
00:28:12,795 --> 00:28:13,675
Right?

556
00:28:13,675 --> 00:28:15,035
Yes. Yes.

557
00:28:15,035 --> 00:28:17,115
If we're talking about what we
were talking about last week,

558
00:28:17,115 --> 00:28:20,780
we're basis of our
rate structure.

559
00:28:20,780 --> 00:28:21,100
Right.

560
00:28:21,100 --> 00:28:23,100
Yes. That would take
more time. Okay.

561
00:28:23,100 --> 00:28:25,300
If we're talking about,

562
00:28:26,620 --> 00:28:30,380
you know, the impact of
a tier two or, you know,

563
00:28:30,380 --> 00:28:33,765
changing a base rate or
changing the initial,

564
00:28:33,765 --> 00:28:37,205
you know, volumetric
rate or consumption rate,

565
00:28:37,205 --> 00:28:38,885
taking a look at that, I mean,

566
00:28:38,885 --> 00:28:41,285
those are things that
we would do every year.

567
00:28:41,285 --> 00:28:41,765
Right.

568
00:28:41,765 --> 00:28:46,485
So so there there's things we
do within our rate structure.

569
00:28:46,485 --> 00:28:49,180
We're absolutely gonna
bring consideration for

570
00:28:49,180 --> 00:28:52,060
next spring minimum.

571
00:28:52,060 --> 00:28:55,340
And if it's really something's
going bump in the night,

572
00:28:55,340 --> 00:28:57,580
we'll see you before that.

573
00:28:57,580 --> 00:29:01,185
Changing the

574
00:29:01,185 --> 00:29:05,305
the structure of
our rates radically,

575
00:29:05,345 --> 00:29:07,105
not by, oh, let's do tier three.

576
00:29:07,105 --> 00:29:09,185
That's not what I mean.
I mean, like, radically.

577
00:29:09,185 --> 00:29:10,785
Like, the basis changes.

578
00:29:10,785 --> 00:29:13,505
That probably would
take a lot more work.

579
00:29:13,505 --> 00:29:16,950
So that's the
distinction I'm making.

580
00:29:16,950 --> 00:29:19,350
Thank you for the
question. Yeah.

581
00:29:19,350 --> 00:29:20,470
Really make that distinction.

582
00:29:20,470 --> 00:29:23,830
The only reason I brought that
up is to miss Holmes's point

583
00:29:23,830 --> 00:29:24,870
that, you know,

584
00:29:24,870 --> 00:29:28,310
if if we are talking about
multifamily residential likely

585
00:29:28,310 --> 00:29:31,855
hitting that tier two level
fairly quickly into my

586
00:29:31,855 --> 00:29:35,215
monthly billing period,
then it would be tough.

587
00:29:35,215 --> 00:29:38,255
Like, we could we could go back
and look at the consumption and

588
00:29:38,255 --> 00:29:40,095
what's what everybody's
being charged.

589
00:29:40,095 --> 00:29:43,215
But to do anything about that
based just on consumption would

590
00:29:43,215 --> 00:29:46,620
be really hard unless we
were to have a more holistic

591
00:29:46,620 --> 00:29:50,900
look at how we do,
how we charge people.

592
00:29:53,740 --> 00:29:54,860
You don't have to answer that.

593
00:29:54,860 --> 00:29:56,180
That's Yeah.

594
00:29:57,020 --> 00:29:57,865
On what you to do.

595
00:29:57,865 --> 00:29:58,345
Yeah. Right.

596
00:29:58,345 --> 00:30:00,985
If you change the threshold,
for example, then why Right.

597
00:30:00,985 --> 00:30:04,665
Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Not
as difficult. Okay. Gotcha.

598
00:30:04,665 --> 00:30:05,545
Back to my question.

599
00:30:05,545 --> 00:30:06,665
Yeah. Just to follow-up. Right?

600
00:30:06,665 --> 00:30:08,425
I mean, I think for because
that's the question.

601
00:30:08,425 --> 00:30:10,265
I just when we go back and look,

602
00:30:10,265 --> 00:30:13,850
I I'd love to know what
percentage of tier two users

603
00:30:13,850 --> 00:30:16,730
are residential users as
opposed to other kinds of

604
00:30:16,730 --> 00:30:18,170
commercial or
institutional users.

605
00:30:18,170 --> 00:30:21,690
I mean, I don't want identifying
data for any individual client,

606
00:30:21,690 --> 00:30:25,155
but I'd love to know what
percentage of tier two is is

607
00:30:25,155 --> 00:30:26,435
residential.

608
00:30:26,435 --> 00:30:29,675
And I'd love to see
if we could figure out

609
00:30:29,955 --> 00:30:33,235
sort of sort of what the impact
is in that in those cases,

610
00:30:33,235 --> 00:30:36,515
right, in terms of for those
residential users that are in

611
00:30:36,515 --> 00:30:39,475
tier two for the amount
extra that they're paying

612
00:30:39,475 --> 00:30:41,040
as a result of
being in tier two,

613
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,040
what does that
look like per unit?

614
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:43,360
Right?

615
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,400
You know, are we talking about are
we talking about a couple dollars

616
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,040
a month, right, when
it's distributed across units,

617
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:50,640
or are we talking about
something bigger than that?

618
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:51,920
I would love to know

619
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,880
Like, what the actual
impact is per unit of of

620
00:30:55,975 --> 00:30:58,295
being bumped into tier
two as a residential.

621
00:30:58,295 --> 00:30:58,695
Right?

622
00:30:58,695 --> 00:30:59,335
Because, you know,

623
00:30:59,335 --> 00:31:03,415
I I I think that the rates are
close enough that we may end

624
00:31:03,415 --> 00:31:04,535
up seeing per unit.

625
00:31:04,535 --> 00:31:07,095
It's not actually a
huge difference. Right.

626
00:31:07,095 --> 00:31:10,040
But I would love to know
that number once once we have some

627
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:11,560
experience under our belt.

628
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:12,600
Yeah. Awesome.

629
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:12,840
Thank you.

630
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,120
I'm gonna put my plug in
once again that we look at monthly

631
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,440
billing as well for next year.

632
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:19,320
I yeah. Yeah.

633
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,800
Now that we have the
technology to support it.

634
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:22,880
Great.

635
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:24,960
Yeah. Yep.

636
00:31:27,535 --> 00:31:29,175
Yes, ma'am.

637
00:31:29,775 --> 00:31:31,895
I think she's bringing it up.

638
00:31:34,815 --> 00:31:38,375
Are there any other budget
questions for mister Whitley?

639
00:31:40,670 --> 00:31:41,710
We're all here.

640
00:31:41,710 --> 00:31:43,270
If

641
00:31:46,030 --> 00:31:49,870
there are not any other
questions or issues to discuss

642
00:31:49,870 --> 00:31:54,005
at this point, we actually could
move up our Closed session.

643
00:31:54,005 --> 00:31:54,885
Closed session.

644
00:31:54,885 --> 00:31:56,685
And

645
00:31:57,445 --> 00:32:01,405
we would recess and go into
the other conference room.

646
00:32:03,410 --> 00:32:05,730
So it looks like there's
probably time for that.

647
00:32:05,730 --> 00:32:09,530
If so, is there a motion
to go into closed session?

648
00:32:11,410 --> 00:32:12,570
I

649
00:32:13,810 --> 00:32:16,675
would like to move
that we go into closed

650
00:32:16,675 --> 00:32:18,675
meeting for consultation
with legal counsel and staff

651
00:32:18,675 --> 00:32:20,595
pertaining to actual litigation,

652
00:32:20,595 --> 00:32:22,835
specifically pending class
actions to which the city may

653
00:32:22,835 --> 00:32:24,915
be a claimant where such
consultation in open session

654
00:32:24,915 --> 00:32:27,075
would adversely affect the
negotiation or litigating

655
00:32:27,075 --> 00:32:30,260
process to be counsel pursuant
to Virginia Code section two

656
00:32:30,260 --> 00:32:32,940
dash three seven
one one point seven.

657
00:32:33,060 --> 00:32:34,700
So thank you.

658
00:32:37,060 --> 00:32:38,420
Alright.

659
00:32:38,420 --> 00:32:41,100
All

660
00:32:41,620 --> 00:32:43,140
those in favor?

661
00:32:43,140 --> 00:32:44,620
Aye. Aye.

662
00:32:44,865 --> 00:32:46,265
Alright.

663
00:32:46,465 --> 00:32:51,545
We will move into room four
hundred points meeting with.