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Okay, I am gonna call to order the regular town council work session

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for monday, february 2nd. And ms. Chris, can we do a roll call?

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may your here, vice here. Council.

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here, here, here,

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here. All right. So we, um, this is our work session. We

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have four new business items and one unfinished

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before close. So our first new business item is a special use,

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uh, permit application from gary bunch to allow an automobile garage

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general repair shop at three west 14th street. And ms. Kaki is going

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to present that to us.

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um, is it up there,

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this chair stiffer than fall by?

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so this is for a, this is a special use permit

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for a, um, a service station

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at, uh, three west 14th street. Um,

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so the applicant is proposing to expand

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the existing use and all, all this special use permit is doing

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is permitting that. And then, um, bringing them, just

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bringing this new use into compliance with the code. Um,

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I'm just trying to get to these, get to the, so those are the site. All

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right. So this is the site from 14th street.

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this is the site from the corner and then up on north royal avenue.

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um, planning commission recommended approval, um,

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with three conditions. So in staff, strongly support condition number

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one, that the entrance off of 14th street shall be removed

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and replaced with, um, curb and gutter that the work shall

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be conducted within an enclosed building and that all outdoor storage or display

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will be screened to obstruct its visibility from any public street. Um,

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so the applicant is aware of these conditions

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and I don't think anybody spoke in opposition at the public hearing.

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so can you go back to the pictures for me? Yeah. To that first one.

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so is it that right there that the entrance they would ask to close off

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so that, so nobody's not gonna be coming around that curb and trying to go in? Correct.

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so they would have to enter it from northbrook extended north royal extended. Right. It

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close up an entrance to somebody's business. Well, they have two entrances

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now. And when we're looking at this from a safety perspective, you're putting,

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it's a, it's one less, um, opportunity for people to pull

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out into. Hold on one second. On one second.

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14th and, and north row. I'd have to pull some stats.

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I know there's been some that guardrails been replaced. Yeah, guardrails have, but

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yeah, I don't believe , I have heartburn with,

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with, with, was taking away one of, one of their permanent entrances.

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been there for 50 years or more. Okay. So that was my first

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question. So that, that's what that first condition that planning commission would suggest

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is to, to, to no longer have that. Right. And then the

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second one is that all work would be done inside, but their garages

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anyway. So, okay. The tires you wouldn't see anymore. Right. So we wouldn't have the

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tires outside and you wouldn't have people working on vehicles outside

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of the shop. And I think what's happened now is that their, their

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business is doing well and they have expanded outside of the original

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structure and they need to make it bigger, but to enlarge it, they need to come into compliance.

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um, but when they do this, uh,

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expansion, we would be looking at site circulation and,

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and how they're utilizing it. Staff would be reviewing it. Public works would be

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looking at that. So energy services to make sure they don't need any upgrades.

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um, we didn't make that recommendation lightly that you close off an

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entrance. And the third thing that I, I just,

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when I was looking through the things that said is, um, a display

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shall be screened. Yeah. So are they talking about like a big tall, like

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a, like a green? I've seen like what, which that's would've said one of

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the, the net fences. That's what I was asking. Leave that to

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wrong direction. There you go. That one

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there. So what, so

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the, I mean, it's not there now. I know that.

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right? I'm just saying like, so all outdoor storage display shall be screened to obstruct its

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visibility from any public streets. So that's within our zoning

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ordinance. When we look at these, when we're analyzing whether or not these uses

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are informing or not, um,

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this is one of the conditions that staff looks at. Like, are you screening your display areas

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properly? Um, can you gimme just example?

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I get what al I get what outdoor storage would be like those tires, right?

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that would be, that would be something they would I get that. So

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the actual, what would a display be? What do you mean about a display? She'll

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be screened. Um, what's like a, I think a display is like

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a sign, but maybe I'm no like screen the tires. So you can't

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see it. If there's gonna be , it's merchandise. Any merchandise or, um, items

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that you have outside, we would require some that of screening potentially.

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um, so like they had a collection of signs maybe

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for their, for their business. It's a display area. So, um, at the,

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uh, martin shopping center, I mean they have that outdoor

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display area. Um, that one is exempted into

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the shopping center code or ordinance, but um,

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or like where they're selling stuff outside, is that what you're telling me? Right. So like their

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nursery, their nursery stock thinking they have a fence around that. They're screening

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that display area. Okay. I just can't imagine what they'd be. I can't, I

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I mean I, it would, I know that there's, that they sell cars.

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I get that. I'm just saying. But that wouldn't be there. That would be up into

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the original. That's all like tires. Tires, yeah. Put tires out

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there to sell. Probably. Um, the only reason why I

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was saying that, like I think about like a screen when they said to

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obstruct its visibility from any public street or whatever. I just wonder if a

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big large screen would be more, um, typical.

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we're looking at fencing more obstructive than, than okay, so fencing,

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is that what you're saying? So typically when we see screening, we think of like a privacy fence

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or um, like some kind of wall. Like, um, like when we require

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that dumpsters get closure screens, if there's some type of opaque you

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can't, okay. Worse than screening. I was just thinking all going down

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the highway and you see the screens in front of the residential areas so you don't see them.

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mm-hmm . That's a screen. Yeah. I just was thinking

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from that corner and going up north royal behind it, and now there's houses

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that are over there. I just was thinking like, I actually think it

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would look a lot worse to like, have big tall screens

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going along there. 'cause it's kind of an open area there. But anyway, that, that's all. I just,

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those were my questions is what exactly there too, right? What,

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what exactly were we, what exactly would the town

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want that to look like and, and what they would,

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and I imagine they're asking the same thing. Like what would that look like? So anyway, sorry.

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those were my only questions. Y'all feel free to, I just wanted to make sure so

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that to to to prevent right. Turn

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into it. To right turn into it. They, they would injure from north

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royal and make a left turn into a right north people coming out of it and trying to make a left and

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cutting across. And so you've got people coming around, um, going towards

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the bridges. You can't make a left out there. But I, I know what you're saying. Yeah, because there's a median

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there. I I, that wouldn't be happening. Pulling in

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a right end would happen, but a left out. Well, a right out would

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be too. But anyway, up. Sorry, I asked

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all my questions. Anybody else have any questions? Would

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you consider a ride out only instead of removing their entrance

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ride out would allow you to go up, uh, west on 14th street?

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you mean when painting it or putting up a signage? You put sign? Well, I mean, if you

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the right turn, put the concrete thing there, you can only go one way. That's right.

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I mean, couldn't even, that's gonna cost the town money, right? I do not undersigned for that matter. If you just wanna make it an exit.

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they had that at mcdonald's. Yeah. Where you had to go right out, you're

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gonna on south street and there were still people that will pull out or, or there at the, um,

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go left intersection at riverton, like where you're supposed to go up on the stars

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road and come and people still would try to make it. I mean, I think it's gonna be

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congested with, with people trying to get in or them trying to get their cars in

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and out way. If we take that exit, take that exit off the property away from 'em, that

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just doesn't make, I mean I doesn't make sense to me. It's already there.

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my gosh. It was there when it was a tasty freeze there. I do you also have an

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entrance right next to it, if I'm remembering

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properly with the in there. So you've got

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an exit here, that's the one they're trying to take out. Right? But then you've

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got these here. So when we're looking at like new development

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up there, you've got hotel, hotel. No, there's no other.

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that's the hotel though. You can't go in into the hotel, you can't get into the hotel's.

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not saying, I think she's saying there's three exits all on top of each other. Yeah.

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if you have three cars pulling out of their back to back to back. So these are too

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close. So these don't typically meet distancing standards that we have.

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so this is our opportunity to get rid of one

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problem entrance. Sorry, I, I counsel can, I can't agree with that.

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actually. It looks like the way this, that if you blow that up,

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it sh shoot, if you blow that up, it shows

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a, um, a cut and a medium there where you could cut

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out and try to make a left hand turn lane. So oh yeah. That's why I said why

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not make it a right. Only I guess there is, there isn't there? Um, I definitely

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would not because you want people, you wouldnt make a west in intersections more so than just

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dark out the middle. There's just not a lot of distance when you're coming around this

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curve to where this entrance exit.

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yeah, this shows there is a cut. If, if this is a

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current picture, I don't know. I mean, I'll look at on the way home the right, but it looks like there's a

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break there in the corner. There is,

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yeah. I've actually, I've actually pulled up north road turn right and then make u-turn

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right there. . But none of this is compliant. The the

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distances between here are not compliant with at least be without standards. Now there

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are roads, but typically we have been making the recommendations

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lately that development follows without standards. Especially

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with these , it's, it's impo. It's, it's very, very difficult at best no matter what

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happens to make a left turn out of there anyways, even from north royal avenue,

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I , I don't even like to make a left out coming out. I usually, if I'm

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there in north royal, unless I see a big gap, I'm just like, I just make a

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right and go up and turn around. I go up right now seven

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11, but, but I turned left

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out of that north rail tonight and got here. . There you go.

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um, are there, um, I, I have

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something, um, I noticed that

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I think it was three parking spots, um,

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are required. Is that, so we, right now,

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uh, parking is calculated based on the square footage. So,

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um, once they do the, once they know the size of their building, we'll recalculate based

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on their new floor area.

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okay. My, my, I guess my concern is when you look at it,

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um, from the, the gis viewpoint,

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where the end of the building is going to be, typically

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these places can get really busy if they're, if they're,

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if they do good work. Right. And, um,

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I'm just a little bit concerned about vehicles

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parking on north row extended as

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overflow mm-hmm . Um, that's going on.

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and they're allowed to well, I know, I know they're allowed to. I'm I'm just saying

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that, um, uh, do you mean that's

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already a congested area that backs up to they be able to make it

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a left hand turn to get onto

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14th? Well, at, uh, 14th street and I mean, they've got some space

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back here. Um, you, you gotta see

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it during the day. Lauren, how long has it been open and operating

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as shop a mechanical tire shop now? Probably, can

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I answer that question for you or yeah, hold on one second. Oh, okay. I can, it's

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okay. I don't dunno the answer. I know, I just feel I know I'm gonna, I do, I just wanted,

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we're we're asking good questions, but it's not like it's changing use

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entirely. Like I've gone there in the last year and had my vehicle worked on,

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and I grew up, at least I grew up by the vfw. It's,

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it's, that's been there for at least 15, 20 years. So we have a already

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existing business owner, which we recognized before this very council for

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their commitment and dedication to operating in this community trying to expand,

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said successful business to a building that was operating under the same use

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premise. So I think it, it'd be a disservice to

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add any more hurdles and unless we're sending it back to planning commission,

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it's the job of this council to determine what conditions we're gonna place on it at the public hearing

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or at the regular council meeting rather. So

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here, ms. Fine. Yes. How long has I, I know it was a jiffy lube

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for a long time. That's been quite a few years. Yeah. Yeah. We probably purchased

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it 25 years ago. And this,

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uh, they are actually our tenants, um, renters and

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they have been there 15 to 20 years, the same family. They work

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very hard and they have, they need more space.

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so us jointly together have decided to ask for

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this request and then like she said, uh, if we'll

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go through the proper steps, but to try to put another building up for them. Okay.

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so that it will be enclosed and they'll

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have, you know, adequate room for their services. Okay.

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so, but for the last 25 years, it's being used in

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the same capacity, just not as large of a business

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yet. Because if you expand, then it's, the idea is to have more business right.

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for them, for them to have more business and more space for what they already have. Gotcha. And

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our code distinguishes between service stations and repair shops.

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so that's, it's, they're technically changing. That's why we're bringing in compliance

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because it's still listed as the, um, sorry, the service station,

219
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which is where they do the oil changes and automobile. Right. But a repair

220
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shop is different than a service station isn't not very interesting. They would

221
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be too different. Two, everything. All right. I, I just brought up the,

222
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I just brought up the parking, uh, issue. If

223
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it's, we all know that it's been there for, for, for

224
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years and nothing has changed that that intersection has not changed

225
00:16:19,545 --> 00:16:23,415
in like 50 years. So there are more houses. There

226
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are houses or, and there's, there's also a base cam

227
00:16:27,795 --> 00:16:31,745
down there, the, the canoe place now. And, uh, in

228
00:16:31,965 --> 00:16:35,465
the summertime it's gonna be busy given, uh,

229
00:16:36,415 --> 00:16:39,415
we're gonna have more water when it's all melts.

230
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so, um, I'm just saying that my point was,

231
00:16:45,465 --> 00:16:49,285
um, you know, if there, if you end up having overflow

232
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parking on the street, you already have, you're gonna have a narrow

233
00:16:53,985 --> 00:16:57,905
street with the cars parked on the street. That's all I'm saying. And

234
00:16:58,145 --> 00:17:02,025
so if there, if, if the thought process is that beyond

235
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the end of their building, uh, you

236
00:17:06,725 --> 00:17:10,405
might restrict some parking up there. That's all 20 street

237
00:17:11,195 --> 00:17:15,025
that the one one or the 1 3, 5, 7 and nope, go

238
00:17:15,245 --> 00:17:17,285
back to picture. Sorry. So that where it says 1, 1, 5, 7, 1, 3, 5, 7, 1, 3, 7, 1,

239
00:17:21,745 --> 00:17:25,725
are those those two new houses that are there? Okay. That's what, which they could go out and park on the

240
00:17:25,845 --> 00:17:29,715
street if they wanna have a birthday party or, yeah. Yeah.

241
00:17:32,025 --> 00:17:35,925
but also if they can't provide adequate parking, we wouldn't, like, I wouldn't

242
00:17:36,205 --> 00:17:40,065
be able to issue them their, their plan permit. So we

243
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will be evaluating it. There. Are you watching the state though? You know, the state's coming down the

244
00:17:44,325 --> 00:17:48,305
scene? I know, I saw that. I was actually happy about that. I understand that we, but

245
00:17:48,545 --> 00:17:51,825
we already have that on south royal avenue. Okay. So

246
00:17:52,605 --> 00:17:56,485
I mean, but uh, it is what it is. I mean,

247
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I don't want to restrict a business, but at the same time I want,

248
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I want to take as much safety measures as possible.

249
00:18:09,335 --> 00:18:13,265
there was a time when down, um, by

250
00:18:13,485 --> 00:18:17,405
where the old bfw was and they thought, we thought the rail

251
00:18:17,605 --> 00:18:21,205
trail was coming through that particular area right there, that street.

252
00:18:21,775 --> 00:18:25,765
there was a lot of talk about. Um, but that's where people would

253
00:18:26,005 --> 00:18:29,885
like, end up down there and that we would have like bus like that there

254
00:18:30,045 --> 00:18:33,825
would be like kind of transport, not the trolley, but something like that back and forth. But

255
00:18:34,065 --> 00:18:37,965
to be quite frank with you, the mysteries and stuff on the rail

256
00:18:38,245 --> 00:18:42,205
trail, I don't even know if that's, uh, I'm, I'm not as optimistic as I

257
00:18:42,325 --> 00:18:46,305
once was, um, about that. But so are

258
00:18:46,525 --> 00:18:50,465
there, so, so ms. Is here as

259
00:18:50,685 --> 00:18:54,465
staff. She's presented, um, the information she shared,

260
00:18:55,035 --> 00:18:58,805
what the planning commission's suggestions were

261
00:18:59,105 --> 00:19:02,805
and, and what's happened. Is there other questions from council

262
00:19:03,615 --> 00:19:07,585
about this application, this site? Anything having

263
00:19:08,005 --> 00:19:11,965
to do with this? I just think we need to do something so they don't lose that

264
00:19:12,445 --> 00:19:16,445
interest. Point out the front and make a right. You know, we can put sides like, look, we got up on

265
00:19:16,565 --> 00:19:20,485
south street right. Turn only, it'd be up for council to make that condition

266
00:19:20,925 --> 00:19:24,745
when we approve it versus, yes. Yeah. Yeah. And, and

267
00:19:24,965 --> 00:19:28,355
that's not, like, that's not what we've, we don't make that decision here.

268
00:19:29,065 --> 00:19:32,785
the thing is, do we have more questions about this? And then, um,

269
00:19:34,905 --> 00:19:38,445
do we have more questions for staff? Is there further questions you all want

270
00:19:39,045 --> 00:19:42,795
answered? And if the answer to that is no, then

271
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it is, are you ready to put it on, uh,

272
00:19:47,725 --> 00:19:51,645
a, a, a meeting that's ready to well, I'm ready to add it to february. The

273
00:19:51,845 --> 00:19:55,805
way I see it is you have an existing business for more than two decades, not just a couple of

274
00:19:56,005 --> 00:19:59,435
years. Improving the aesthetic, improving the use, improving

275
00:20:00,105 --> 00:20:04,005
and increasing the tax revenue in the community. I mean, to me

276
00:20:04,165 --> 00:20:08,115
it's a no-brainer. Yeah. And, and, but it does sound like it'll, they're

277
00:20:08,605 --> 00:20:12,605
gonna enlarge the business, but that aspect of it will be handled by the planning

278
00:20:12,685 --> 00:20:16,045
and zoning department anyway. Yeah. That part is is

279
00:20:16,715 --> 00:20:20,485
enlarge the, so they're gonna put, they're basically gonna put a storage facility, the buildings yeah. To help them.

280
00:20:20,785 --> 00:20:24,445
oh, I'm sorry. I put, she said the building is to store what they have

281
00:20:24,905 --> 00:20:28,565
to give them more space to work. Right. Gotcha. To try to get some of the,

282
00:20:29,225 --> 00:20:33,165
and we could ask mrs. Bunch, I mean, she's here, but you go by and you see 'em working

283
00:20:33,475 --> 00:20:37,275
outside a lot and see they're full on the inside. So this

284
00:20:37,565 --> 00:20:41,345
would get some of that work inside. So when it's six degrees out,

285
00:20:41,635 --> 00:20:45,565
they can be inside changing tires, brakes or whatever, instead

286
00:20:45,965 --> 00:20:49,825
of having 'em jacked up out there in the asphalt. And, and in condition number two,

287
00:20:50,185 --> 00:20:53,955
if the council chooses, all work shall be conducted within an enclosed building that

288
00:20:54,245 --> 00:20:57,805
will keep it in the enclo building. So it has to be,

289
00:20:58,325 --> 00:21:02,205
I mean, but yeah. Right. No, to me, if we tell 'em they got, they gotta put curb

290
00:21:02,445 --> 00:21:06,405
and gutter anywhere. Make a, it's just an undue ship. They're gonna spend money

291
00:21:07,105 --> 00:21:11,045
to put that in. I don't know that they would, would they be responsible to

292
00:21:11,245 --> 00:21:13,165
financially put the in? That's what,

293
00:21:15,835 --> 00:21:19,805
okay. I just didn't know if that was something they would do

294
00:21:19,925 --> 00:21:23,695
or we would do. Right. I mean, if it's a safety issue,

295
00:21:24,125 --> 00:21:27,925
that's a bdot thing, you know, it wouldn't be us. We would leave

296
00:21:28,205 --> 00:21:32,095
it as is. Right. We wouldn't be responsible to pay for that. Right.

297
00:21:32,755 --> 00:21:36,685
it's a safety issue that was warranted. I mean, we could do it. I do believe we also have

298
00:21:36,885 --> 00:21:40,835
opportunities we can do like, uh, share of that cost

299
00:21:41,225 --> 00:21:44,595
as well. Okay. I was just curious. 'cause I, if it would be a, another

300
00:21:45,605 --> 00:21:49,575
situation, we wouldn't, you know, like we're not telling the hotel to close

301
00:21:50,175 --> 00:21:54,085
their entrance or, or like you said, there, there are a lot of entrances off of

302
00:21:54,245 --> 00:21:58,025
that street, like into that one and into the hotel, into the gas station and

303
00:21:58,835 --> 00:22:02,745
into the chiropractor office and all this. So the question is,

304
00:22:03,505 --> 00:22:07,115
is this council ready to put it on now, ms. Presley,

305
00:22:08,585 --> 00:22:11,805
do we have enough time? Mm-hmm . Okay. All right. So is everybody

306
00:22:12,595 --> 00:22:16,525
good with putting this on the february? And it would have to have

307
00:22:16,725 --> 00:22:20,725
a public hearing, right? It's public hearing. Yeah, that's, I just wanna make sure, that's why I was asking. We have

308
00:22:20,845 --> 00:22:24,805
enough time to advertise, right? So there will be a public hearing. Mm-hmm . You have the

309
00:22:24,925 --> 00:22:28,805
sign up there from the planning commission, public hearing. Did anybody comment to the

310
00:22:29,005 --> 00:22:32,885
planning commission hearing? She said no. I, I'm sorry I missed that somehow, right? You

311
00:22:33,085 --> 00:22:36,525
said no, no one came. Yep. Okay. All right. So that's

312
00:22:38,795 --> 00:22:42,785
item two. Ready. So that's

313
00:22:43,205 --> 00:22:47,105
our first public hearing for february . February what? February 20.

314
00:22:47,955 --> 00:22:51,825
what is it? 23rd 16th. Seven third. Yes.

315
00:22:53,265 --> 00:22:56,965
all right. And if anybody has any questions between now and then too,

316
00:22:57,385 --> 00:23:00,925
you can reach out to, uh, staff or the applicant.

317
00:23:01,945 --> 00:23:05,645
um, b2b, social use permit, application

318
00:23:06,245 --> 00:23:10,105
from property connection and all c to allow an automobile parking lot, commercial tow

319
00:23:10,325 --> 00:23:14,205
yard on a vacant lot on kiler street. And lauren will also be presenting

320
00:23:14,685 --> 00:23:18,125
that o um, just our definitions

321
00:23:19,625 --> 00:23:22,995
did not exactly define a tow yard in the zoning ordinance.

322
00:23:24,105 --> 00:23:27,765
um, but where this use fits in is that it's, um,

323
00:23:28,665 --> 00:23:32,495
the mobile parking lot commercial one, it would be, um, using

324
00:23:32,965 --> 00:23:36,265
a lot for the storage of six or more vehicles, um,

325
00:23:37,955 --> 00:23:41,595
that are not for sale. So, uh, the applicant here

326
00:23:42,385 --> 00:23:46,105
is proposing to utilize this vacant lot, um,

327
00:23:46,985 --> 00:23:50,685
off of kibbler street for a tow yard. They're

328
00:23:51,165 --> 00:23:55,075
proposing to add a fence as part of it. And this

329
00:23:55,865 --> 00:23:58,925
is in the floodway, not just the flood zones, but the floodway.

330
00:23:59,985 --> 00:24:03,965
um, and I assuming you all remember, there

331
00:24:04,165 --> 00:24:08,085
was an alley vacation at the, on the street at two 19.

332
00:24:08,425 --> 00:24:11,465
so you should be familiar with this area. Um,

333
00:24:12,825 --> 00:24:16,685
uh, the royal examiner's offices are here. So it is this

334
00:24:17,125 --> 00:24:20,985
property. Um, here's sixth and commerce is

335
00:24:21,385 --> 00:24:25,085
to or for sale, but we're just looking at this piece here.

336
00:24:25,415 --> 00:24:29,245
where was the alley vacation? We've done so many out here. Up here. Up here. Okay. So

337
00:24:29,425 --> 00:24:32,865
you vacated that portion of the alley here. We had, um,

338
00:24:33,865 --> 00:24:37,565
you've got two residential structures on one lot, which is the same

339
00:24:38,085 --> 00:24:42,005
property owner. So this lets them utilize this back lot here.

340
00:24:44,035 --> 00:24:47,925
well, I had some, I had some, I have two questions. I think.

341
00:24:48,665 --> 00:24:52,635
um, one was in the language, in the summary, it said they

342
00:24:52,925 --> 00:24:56,925
had permit the entered park six or more vehicles, but not wrecked vehicles.

343
00:24:57,325 --> 00:25:01,205
but then if you go down to the staff recommendations, then it says

344
00:25:01,365 --> 00:25:05,345
number four, rector damaged vehicles shall not remain on site for a period longer. So

345
00:25:05,565 --> 00:25:09,385
you're telling me you can't have 'em, but then you can have 'em. So which one is

346
00:25:09,605 --> 00:25:13,365
it? So, um, in the, in chapter 1 58, it states

347
00:25:13,645 --> 00:25:17,445
that you can't have them, but because they're operating a

348
00:25:18,465 --> 00:25:22,325
tow yard, essentially our thought was is if they

349
00:25:22,525 --> 00:25:26,325
need to, if they get called to tow these vehicles or there's some issue with the vehicle,

350
00:25:26,955 --> 00:25:30,375
they can leave it there, but then they need to remove it within 48

351
00:25:31,005 --> 00:25:34,005
hours. So then that, the 48 hours was my second issue. Because

352
00:25:36,865 --> 00:25:40,485
if somebody is in a serious wreck mm-hmm . 48 hours is very,

353
00:25:41,025 --> 00:25:44,815
is a very short period of time to figure out where your car is, where

354
00:25:45,165 --> 00:25:48,765
it's going and all of that. So I don't, I don't know that that's

355
00:25:49,285 --> 00:25:52,585
feasible. And I don't know that you can police it. You know, if

356
00:25:54,035 --> 00:25:57,635
insurance, the insurance company actually, so when,

357
00:25:58,995 --> 00:26:02,805
like if there's a wreck and they take the car to wherever it is, which this

358
00:26:03,045 --> 00:26:07,045
would be like a tow yard, then the insurance company is the one that comes

359
00:26:07,305 --> 00:26:11,285
in and determines where they're gonna move it to. Or at least that's what happened to us.

360
00:26:11,425 --> 00:26:14,765
if you're laid up in the hospital, you're not the one dealing with your vehicle

361
00:26:15,475 --> 00:26:19,445
typically at that point. And they have to move it because otherwise only, I'm only

362
00:26:19,905 --> 00:26:23,845
are they on a, are they on a period on a 48 hour period too? Well, the thing is,

363
00:26:24,005 --> 00:26:27,915
they wanna move it to a lot that

364
00:26:28,225 --> 00:26:32,205
is cheaper. At least that's, I'm just my experience. When my daughter's

365
00:26:32,485 --> 00:26:36,065
car was totaled, they, and we had it done midway

366
00:26:36,945 --> 00:26:40,805
and um, they had to, they went in and got it and they

367
00:26:41,045 --> 00:26:44,125
didn't come and get it quick enough. And when I say that is because

368
00:26:45,435 --> 00:26:49,275
they, they charge for it. They charge forever. Storage fee. Yeah.

369
00:26:49,565 --> 00:26:53,565
they charge the storage fee for it and the insurance company wants to come and get it and get

370
00:26:53,725 --> 00:26:57,525
it to wherever they don't have to pay well or wherever cheaper. And I guess,

371
00:26:57,885 --> 00:27:01,455
I mean, that's, that's so, but, but I'm like you 48 hours seems

372
00:27:02,535 --> 00:27:06,485
quick. It is, but I get that you don't, I get that. You don't want it

373
00:27:06,605 --> 00:27:10,365
to be, you don't want it to become a junkyard. And this would be

374
00:27:10,725 --> 00:27:14,725
complaint based. I mean, if somebody complains that there's these vehicles there for, you know,

375
00:27:14,845 --> 00:27:18,805
a week on end, right? Mm-hmm . We'll go

376
00:27:18,885 --> 00:27:22,555
out there, but but's this was just to get them. Yeah,

377
00:27:22,905 --> 00:27:26,325
that's what I'm saying. Who's gonna enforce a our zoning

378
00:27:27,065 --> 00:27:30,905
zoning enforcement, right? I mean, I mean that, that's, that's

379
00:27:31,325 --> 00:27:35,165
well and fine. That the, the question is, is if it's a wreck

380
00:27:35,485 --> 00:27:39,385
vehicle because of its location near the, the

381
00:27:39,615 --> 00:27:43,315
creek, I don't want fluids leak leaking

382
00:27:44,315 --> 00:27:47,975
onto the pavement, down into the, or into the, uh,

383
00:27:48,345 --> 00:27:51,275
whether or not it's a pavement or, or it's gravel.

384
00:27:52,375 --> 00:27:56,265
the gravel, it, it'll, it'll sink into the, the groundwater

385
00:27:57,895 --> 00:28:01,795
and then find its way in. So that, so you're saying four

386
00:28:01,995 --> 00:28:05,835
eight hours is a good thing? Yeah. If you can manage it,

387
00:28:06,135 --> 00:28:08,825
the be off, but, but well, true.

388
00:28:10,815 --> 00:28:12,915
that's you gotta get rid of.

389
00:28:16,305 --> 00:28:18,675
yeah, you gotta get rid of

390
00:28:20,625 --> 00:28:24,555
what, what is the zoning in this area? Uh, I think this is c

391
00:28:24,675 --> 00:28:28,505
one. C one. Yeah. But remember have

392
00:28:28,795 --> 00:28:32,595
two or three houses, residential houses. The two houses that are adjacent

393
00:28:32,895 --> 00:28:36,715
to it predate the zoning ordinance, which is how they ended

394
00:28:36,915 --> 00:28:40,915
up on the same lot. So this is cattycorner across the

395
00:28:41,115 --> 00:28:44,945
street from the one that we sold two feet of kibbler street to, right? Yeah,

396
00:28:45,385 --> 00:28:48,275
yeah, yeah. Because the person yeah. Built it wrong.

397
00:28:56,025 --> 00:28:59,885
no, that, that with, that was two 19. Two 19 was the one

398
00:29:00,105 --> 00:29:04,025
we, two 19 was the one where they put it too close to the street or

399
00:29:04,245 --> 00:29:08,115
whoever the excavator was. I mean, so these are legally nonconforming uses.

400
00:29:08,625 --> 00:29:11,725
two houses are on the same lot. Which ones are leak

401
00:29:12,715 --> 00:29:16,705
residential. Yeah. And I will say

402
00:29:17,475 --> 00:29:21,425
that that was what I recall. The other issues

403
00:29:21,835 --> 00:29:25,735
we've had with this street, as I recall the complaint was that

404
00:29:27,755 --> 00:29:31,585
there was residential back there, but they

405
00:29:31,775 --> 00:29:35,625
were like, those two structures were built in the forties before we had

406
00:29:35,785 --> 00:29:39,405
adopted his zoning ordinance. And they've been used as such ever since. Lauren,

407
00:29:40,205 --> 00:29:44,125
you said flood way and flood something else

408
00:29:44,425 --> 00:29:48,205
can, I'm just curious, could you define the difference between those?

409
00:29:48,705 --> 00:29:52,565
so you've got the flood way, which is where you have waters, like you're, we're

410
00:29:52,885 --> 00:29:56,645
anticipating like the waters moving through. And then you've got the flood plain, which may flood depending

411
00:29:57,165 --> 00:30:01,085
on the severity of the, the the rain

412
00:30:01,245 --> 00:30:05,245
event or the, so what's the, what's the one that's more serious? This is, this is floodway.

413
00:30:05,825 --> 00:30:09,265
so this is the creek, this is the channel. So if it floods,

414
00:30:09,955 --> 00:30:13,865
it's like mor right on the creek. It's more often

415
00:30:14,105 --> 00:30:18,015
versus more serious. Is that what I'm hearing? Right. Well we had that,

416
00:30:18,215 --> 00:30:21,895
well it earlier last year, and we had to go in there and make repairs to kibbler

417
00:30:22,255 --> 00:30:25,925
street where the creek backed up and flooded.

418
00:30:31,405 --> 00:30:35,305
and the neighbor, none of the neighbors minded? Well, the, they, it is them.

419
00:30:35,815 --> 00:30:39,745
they own it. Oh, the two houses are the people that are

420
00:30:39,865 --> 00:30:43,695
bunk. I'm assuming there was four. Sorry, just outta curiosity.

421
00:30:46,165 --> 00:30:49,705
are it, is that already, is this already happening? And this is just a,

422
00:30:50,525 --> 00:30:54,085
to try to fix it? Not here. There's another, um, towing facility. Um,

423
00:30:54,975 --> 00:30:58,765
yeah, I thought there was nearby. Okay, so

424
00:30:59,005 --> 00:31:02,265
one is independent of the other. Where's the other one?

425
00:31:04,095 --> 00:31:08,065
aaron's where it's, I believe

426
00:31:08,295 --> 00:31:11,865
it's just north. It's on these properties by east seventh street.

427
00:31:13,055 --> 00:31:17,025
well, marta motors on the other side of that, right? Yeah. I

428
00:31:17,145 --> 00:31:20,045
think believe there's ability, there's a buffer, a little bit of a buffer between marlow.

429
00:31:21,875 --> 00:31:25,865
think there's like a use, there's one where the alley where they wanted to be able to

430
00:31:25,985 --> 00:31:29,725
come down and come to the side. That's this, that's

431
00:31:30,145 --> 00:31:33,905
the same one. Yeah. That's, that's only street. I have it on the plat.

432
00:31:34,565 --> 00:31:38,255
yep. So you've already vacated everybody, uh, created.

433
00:31:39,615 --> 00:31:41,845
yeah. There's polygraph. Mm-hmm . Yep.

434
00:31:43,905 --> 00:31:47,775
I would like to see, I would suggest a paved surface

435
00:31:48,565 --> 00:31:52,545
as opposed to gravel. So it, yeah, whether if there

436
00:31:53,045 --> 00:31:57,045
are any fluids or whatever it can, it'll, it'll roll, roll in

437
00:31:57,265 --> 00:32:01,205
the direction away from the, uh, away

438
00:32:01,495 --> 00:32:05,375
from the body of water. Yeah. I mean, did mar the motors have any issues

439
00:32:05,765 --> 00:32:09,625
when we had the last, um, the last flood

440
00:32:11,125 --> 00:32:15,115
leaking? No, I don't know about fluids, but they, they had some cars. They had to, but

441
00:32:15,335 --> 00:32:19,335
typically you've got enough notice you can remove the vehicles and you can, it's not

442
00:32:19,535 --> 00:32:22,845
outside of your purview to potentially request or condition

443
00:32:23,565 --> 00:32:27,555
like management plan be submitted to staff that explain how if the need had

444
00:32:27,775 --> 00:32:31,725
to, yeah. How are you getting these vehicles out? Are security side

445
00:32:32,365 --> 00:32:36,225
problem is if they're wrecked vehicles. , that's why we're saying don't

446
00:32:36,575 --> 00:32:39,765
have wrecked vehicles. Okay, because I was gonna say like marlon motor, that's different.

447
00:32:40,595 --> 00:32:44,375
like they can get in the car and move a car. That's true. They're every

448
00:32:44,835 --> 00:32:48,765
gets in at three o'clock in the morning. Yeah, but I'm saying though that they're,

449
00:32:49,205 --> 00:32:52,545
they have the ability to move a working vehicle versus

450
00:32:53,745 --> 00:32:57,585
if this becomes like a tow yard. Um, but

451
00:32:57,885 --> 00:33:01,765
they're towing them there, so they should be able to tow them out. True. That's true.

452
00:33:05,515 --> 00:33:09,505
when we do this and we put the notice out to, do we go across the

453
00:33:09,725 --> 00:33:13,265
creek? Did they get notified as well? We, we do immediately adjacent. So,

454
00:33:13,745 --> 00:33:17,685
um, well go back. Okay, my question is

455
00:33:18,185 --> 00:33:22,145
on the east side of the creek, you got two

456
00:33:22,325 --> 00:33:25,905
big buildings there. So were they notified of this? 'cause they all have a,

457
00:33:26,775 --> 00:33:30,745
well, they would've been there. Their property lines are touching. So here's the creek. The creek is

458
00:33:31,065 --> 00:33:34,765
actually running through their properties. They would've been notified that the ones the

459
00:33:35,145 --> 00:33:39,005
business, right? The one with the red roof. Isn't that the business? Mm-hmm

460
00:33:39,465 --> 00:33:43,325
. I don't know what the other one is now. Well, there's no, the

461
00:33:43,545 --> 00:33:47,375
parking lot, the concrete, it's just that concrete pad, the big, that

462
00:33:47,665 --> 00:33:48,745
was the building where it worked out.

463
00:33:52,385 --> 00:33:55,795
counsel, the question is, do you all have more questions about this?

464
00:33:57,015 --> 00:33:59,315
um, do you want to move it forward?

465
00:34:01,565 --> 00:34:05,335
do what is your prerogative about this

466
00:34:05,625 --> 00:34:08,985
particular, this particular application at this time?

467
00:34:14,945 --> 00:34:18,935
okay, well, you know what? Here's the six minutes and nine and

468
00:34:19,295 --> 00:34:23,155
I'm not feeling like everybody's totally, nobody's jumping on this

469
00:34:23,355 --> 00:34:27,355
really like, yep. Let's move it on to the february meeting. So should

470
00:34:27,775 --> 00:34:31,755
we move this to, should we, I won't say

471
00:34:31,915 --> 00:34:34,985
table it, but bring it up again as old business or what,

472
00:34:36,225 --> 00:34:39,875
what is your prerogative? Can we move it to our next work session

473
00:34:40,335 --> 00:34:44,235
and revisit it? Yeah, that's, that's fine. Maybe get more information on it because

474
00:34:44,675 --> 00:34:48,315
I, I be honest, I did not prepare for this. I haven't,

475
00:34:48,945 --> 00:34:52,795
I've driven by there many times, but I'd like to look at

476
00:34:52,995 --> 00:34:56,755
it again. So yeah, I,

477
00:34:57,015 --> 00:35:00,425
I'm okay with it. If we change, if we change number four

478
00:35:01,285 --> 00:35:05,195
under the wreck vehicle for, well that's, that's what

479
00:35:05,315 --> 00:35:09,195
would happen that night. I mean, uh, number three. Sorry. You want it pave?

480
00:35:09,745 --> 00:35:13,715
yeah, I want it pa okay. Well, like I said, that would be something that

481
00:35:13,915 --> 00:35:17,795
would be part of the motion that night. If that's, if that was the condition you

482
00:35:17,995 --> 00:35:21,755
wanted. Yeah, my question. Okay. I I'm hearing nobody

483
00:35:22,115 --> 00:35:26,005
else say anything. Uh, so I'm gonna go with what glen said, which is, we'll

484
00:35:26,355 --> 00:35:29,795
put this one next week's work session. I will say this though,

485
00:35:30,375 --> 00:35:34,275
to put it on next week's work session. If there are questions that

486
00:35:34,515 --> 00:35:37,535
you have, please get with staff

487
00:35:38,985 --> 00:35:42,785
and ask the questions so that when we bring it back next week, you

488
00:35:43,005 --> 00:35:46,995
know it, let me ask this is one week and up or should we move it to the march work

489
00:35:47,285 --> 00:35:51,285
sessions? I don't think one week is enough that I would take one

490
00:35:51,405 --> 00:35:53,465
thing. Is everybody okay? Yes. Mr. Petty.

491
00:35:56,195 --> 00:35:59,625
this requires a public hearing. So if,

492
00:36:00,745 --> 00:36:04,405
if you could talk about it next week, or if you wait till the first march meeting,

493
00:36:05,145 --> 00:36:08,225
you need time to advertise it for a public hearing anyways, so

494
00:36:09,665 --> 00:36:13,625
it doesn't matter if you hear it next week or the first week in march. If

495
00:36:13,845 --> 00:36:17,825
you delay this, the next public hearing available will be the end. End of march. March. Okay. I got so

496
00:36:18,065 --> 00:36:21,985
you have time if you would like extra time. So here's what we're gonna do, mr. Petty,

497
00:36:23,105 --> 00:36:26,845
you and I, when we make the agenda for next week, we're gonna see how hard it is.

498
00:36:27,385 --> 00:36:31,245
if it's not real, real hardy, then we'll put it on that one. If it's, if we have

499
00:36:31,405 --> 00:36:35,305
a lot of items, then moving into march isn't gonna, it's not gonna affect

500
00:36:35,985 --> 00:36:39,925
the, um, how long this takes her. Correct. Okay. Is that good? I,

501
00:36:40,145 --> 00:36:43,965
um, oh, two my concerns again, were the 48

502
00:36:44,325 --> 00:36:48,085
hours, but also I get about the rec vehicles. But

503
00:36:48,595 --> 00:36:52,565
when you say damaged, if you're towing my car, it's got damage of some

504
00:36:52,765 --> 00:36:56,735
sort. So I, I don't know that that term is gonna work.

505
00:36:58,535 --> 00:37:02,055
I think that's out of our code. That's why we stated it that way. But we can

506
00:37:02,585 --> 00:37:06,555
think about that. Look at that. Yeah, I can chime in at this point. The

507
00:37:06,775 --> 00:37:09,885
the code is imperfect. Okay.

508
00:37:10,945 --> 00:37:14,875
we're in the process of a complete review and revamp

509
00:37:15,315 --> 00:37:19,185
of the zoning ordinance. Um, the zoning administrator

510
00:37:19,895 --> 00:37:23,055
came to me for help on this app as to what

511
00:37:23,965 --> 00:37:26,895
the proper use was given the application.

512
00:37:28,205 --> 00:37:32,205
and, and I'm not addressing the conditions the pc put

513
00:37:32,425 --> 00:37:35,725
on there, but it, it was, it's an imperfect

514
00:37:37,455 --> 00:37:41,415
solution to address the application and that includes some of

515
00:37:41,535 --> 00:37:44,685
the definitions. So, okay.

516
00:37:45,645 --> 00:37:49,445
okay. All right. You'll see this again. Counsel. Uh, item

517
00:37:50,035 --> 00:37:53,805
two c is a special use permit application from

518
00:37:54,295 --> 00:37:57,865
h-a-m-l-l-c, front royal virginia on behalf of the, is it boise?

519
00:37:58,975 --> 00:38:00,585
I saying that right? Rosie. Rosie

520
00:38:04,435 --> 00:38:08,125
bo. All right. I'll just say be a family. Lc etal

521
00:38:08,475 --> 00:38:12,295
to operate a shopping center in the c one zoning district on south street.

522
00:38:14,315 --> 00:38:17,335
but yeah, this was interesting. ,

523
00:38:18,495 --> 00:38:22,135
I keep it by saying it's fairly simple, but, um, this shopping center

524
00:38:22,635 --> 00:38:26,485
was constructed in the sixties, early seventies when

525
00:38:26,775 --> 00:38:30,475
it opened seventies. And that predates the definition of shopping center

526
00:38:31,475 --> 00:38:35,405
in our ordinance. So we traced it back to, it looks like the late nineties,

527
00:38:35,805 --> 00:38:39,645
19 98, 19 99 is when shopping center appeared in the zoning ordinance.

528
00:38:41,075 --> 00:38:44,505
from that point, this was a, you know, legally non-conforming

529
00:38:45,545 --> 00:38:49,325
use. There have been additions, alterations, expansions of this

530
00:38:49,645 --> 00:38:53,485
shopping center, at which point in time it should have gone through the special

531
00:38:53,745 --> 00:38:57,005
use permit process to bring into compliance. And it did not.

532
00:38:57,865 --> 00:39:01,805
so at this point in time, this is to bring this shopping center that's

533
00:39:02,165 --> 00:39:06,005
already in use into compliance. What, what, what predicated

534
00:39:06,915 --> 00:39:10,565
this tonight? I mean, I'm just curious, did they want to expand something

535
00:39:10,925 --> 00:39:14,685
again and then we were like, wait, hold on. Or was it something that you just

536
00:39:14,985 --> 00:39:18,865
had known it was out of compliance and so the, I'm

537
00:39:19,085 --> 00:39:22,305
just wondering what made them, the tenants reached out. So, um,

538
00:39:23,265 --> 00:39:25,975
the, I guess the property owner, that family trust,

539
00:39:28,445 --> 00:39:32,395
they're looking at potentially down the line, selling the

540
00:39:32,855 --> 00:39:36,375
property to a new management company, something like that. So if that happens,

541
00:39:37,545 --> 00:39:41,135
right, they want clean title. Clear title. Gotcha. Uh, that makes sense.

542
00:39:41,575 --> 00:39:45,325
I just was, I just thought it was really odd. Like what, what made us revisit

543
00:39:45,815 --> 00:39:49,595
it right now? Since it's been there since the seventies. It's probably getting vdo

544
00:39:50,095 --> 00:39:53,995
a print attention. 'cause of the vdot thing. Yeah. Yeah, that was, that's

545
00:39:54,415 --> 00:39:58,295
what I was wondering too, like was there something block, okay, um, I have a

546
00:39:58,495 --> 00:40:01,885
question on this too about language or, well, somewhere,

547
00:40:02,535 --> 00:40:06,535
I can't put my hand on it right now. Right? So we couldn't do outdoor, oh there

548
00:40:06,695 --> 00:40:10,665
it is. Um, outdoor activities. No, no it's

549
00:40:10,865 --> 00:40:14,775
not on this page. Uh, somewhere it

550
00:40:14,895 --> 00:40:18,755
lists like what the activities are that you can do. And it said number one,

551
00:40:19,765 --> 00:40:23,555
this is straight from our code. So recording parking spaces, spaces

552
00:40:24,045 --> 00:40:27,895
show or may obstructed and reserved solely for parking purposes. Whether use

553
00:40:28,055 --> 00:40:31,935
including storage, loading or outdoor activity shall be permitted within the designated parking

554
00:40:32,215 --> 00:40:36,085
areas. So when we have some, well, okay, I guess you can argue when

555
00:40:36,375 --> 00:40:40,335
we have the, you know, thanksgiving bus collecting the

556
00:40:40,495 --> 00:40:43,935
food, I guess it scouts scout the boy scout. Well they're on the grass.

557
00:40:44,835 --> 00:40:48,675
no, no. They have, they usually have something set up there too where they collect the

558
00:40:48,895 --> 00:40:52,745
money, the shredding, the shredding truck. I mean there's all kinds

559
00:40:53,115 --> 00:40:56,895
of out outdoor activities and like what

560
00:40:57,185 --> 00:41:01,105
were we trying to like avoid what was, what was happening there? We doing

561
00:41:01,265 --> 00:41:05,205
that because we do outdoor activities on time there. Bring the bell. Are

562
00:41:05,425 --> 00:41:09,405
we trying to, are we trying to get, I mean, what were we trying to

563
00:41:09,965 --> 00:41:13,385
say? We, we didn't want to have, 'cause we have cloud work activities.

564
00:41:15,565 --> 00:41:19,355
I don't know that it's, we said it now. I think what she's saying is it's

565
00:41:19,645 --> 00:41:23,605
in the code. It's in the code and it's just like what george said, this might be

566
00:41:23,965 --> 00:41:27,765
one of those areas that when we rewrite it, we take that

567
00:41:28,325 --> 00:41:32,075
language out, we address it. But you know, we have people that come with neat

568
00:41:32,365 --> 00:41:35,165
trucks that really shouldn't be just selling their,

569
00:41:37,805 --> 00:41:41,755
there used to be a thing set up there where you could drop off shoes and clothing. Like one

570
00:41:41,955 --> 00:41:45,715
of those, like what I'm talking about. And long before

571
00:41:47,285 --> 00:41:51,065
you were here and you were born, you were here, they had a photo

572
00:41:51,515 --> 00:41:55,325
thing there. Remember that little tiny photo thing through mr. Po? Do you remember that? And

573
00:41:55,545 --> 00:41:59,485
you'd pull up and you'd hand over your film and then you come back a few days later and,

574
00:42:01,205 --> 00:42:05,145
and that was literally in the middle of it. Like amber's laughing. She never heard of that.

575
00:42:05,245 --> 00:42:09,105
she said before you were born. I know it was before she was born because I wanna

576
00:42:09,265 --> 00:42:13,105
say I was in high school and you could do that. So, and loading. I mean how can we

577
00:42:13,305 --> 00:42:17,145
have not have loading there? We've gotta have, you can't use the parking

578
00:42:17,755 --> 00:42:21,665
store so you can't do it out where everybody's parking. You've got pedestrians going.

579
00:42:22,095 --> 00:42:26,045
that is what the back of the shopping center is for, is for your loading areas. So

580
00:42:26,265 --> 00:42:29,795
we have designated zones for that. We're not talking about

581
00:42:31,805 --> 00:42:35,655
rule king putting their farm implements and all that stuff. No, that's exempt

582
00:42:35,945 --> 00:42:39,815
under our code. Okay. That's the next another section of zoning. Well I was afraid that was maybe

583
00:42:40,085 --> 00:42:43,875
what, so at this point in time they've submitted their, the

584
00:42:44,095 --> 00:42:47,205
striping plan, they just had the parking lot retried,

585
00:42:48,415 --> 00:42:52,185
I think it was like in december. Mm-hmm . Um, they

586
00:42:52,475 --> 00:42:56,275
didn't stripe the rear of the facility. They have adequate parking

587
00:42:57,335 --> 00:43:01,035
per this plan. Staff wasn't going to make them because they have

588
00:43:01,395 --> 00:43:03,275
adequate parking. Do any additional,

589
00:43:07,935 --> 00:43:11,875
the back's getting crowded back there. 'cause I think of martin's, I think

590
00:43:12,115 --> 00:43:16,015
martin's is doing like renovations and I don't know if they've taken stuff out

591
00:43:16,615 --> 00:43:20,385
and they have all these like tractor trailer, like the containers back there that

592
00:43:20,675 --> 00:43:24,595
weren't there before. Yeah, in the back. Yeah. Um, if you, you're

593
00:43:25,035 --> 00:43:28,975
coming down the side like, um, if you pull into the martin's closest to

594
00:43:29,195 --> 00:43:33,035
the keller building and you go up through there and go round back, I just know,

595
00:43:33,315 --> 00:43:37,195
'cause I take stuff back to the hospice drop off and, and it's like, boy that got

596
00:43:37,395 --> 00:43:41,275
narrow real quick. But I imagine once the renovations are done at martin's that that

597
00:43:41,545 --> 00:43:44,455
will open. Yeah. But

598
00:43:45,575 --> 00:43:49,555
so the other thing was the quest, the sign thing. Can you

599
00:43:49,635 --> 00:43:53,635
explain that? So the billboard and off premises signs, which apparently this

600
00:43:53,795 --> 00:43:57,795
one has been there a very long time are not permitted in our code. So the applicant,

601
00:43:58,245 --> 00:44:01,715
since the planning commission meeting has reached out to the property owner

602
00:44:02,535 --> 00:44:06,395
and staff and said that they have an annual lease that renews june 1st

603
00:44:06,975 --> 00:44:10,785
of every year. So they're negotiating that with the property owners. Then

604
00:44:11,075 --> 00:44:14,825
this will be removed prior to june 1st. They

605
00:44:15,115 --> 00:44:18,665
will, regardless of how this goes. Wow. I thought that

606
00:44:19,225 --> 00:44:23,195
that had to be in violation. I mean all of 'em in town were taken down

607
00:44:23,475 --> 00:44:27,345
years ago. Yep. That's the only one that really is left. And I think they were permitted

608
00:44:27,955 --> 00:44:31,465
like one change or like they had a grace period, but

609
00:44:32,385 --> 00:44:36,365
at some point it's just kept going. People move on and you'll lose track of it

610
00:44:36,505 --> 00:44:40,445
and then it's another one of those enforced but not are they

611
00:44:40,595 --> 00:44:44,445
okay with that there? I mean they know that that's gonna come down. That's the only one

612
00:44:44,605 --> 00:44:48,215
though. That's the one that we know. No, no, no. I'm talking about the other conditions.

613
00:44:48,885 --> 00:44:52,805
there was some something else. Other condition was just that they comply with our parking standards essentially.

614
00:44:53,385 --> 00:44:56,645
oh, not that big sign. That's the one I thought it was. I thought

615
00:44:57,395 --> 00:45:00,205
look at was this, I was like, I thought

616
00:45:01,585 --> 00:45:05,135
got those signs. I thought that that's permitted. No, it's that, that giant

617
00:45:05,625 --> 00:45:09,435
air serve sign on mountain road right down

618
00:45:09,905 --> 00:45:13,825
all the frontage up to re mount. Right. So off premises sign. So this ground

619
00:45:14,245 --> 00:45:18,005
mount sign is telling you what is on the premises, what es are there.

620
00:45:18,345 --> 00:45:22,295
the other one is just air serve is not located in that shopping center. Right.

621
00:45:22,725 --> 00:45:26,685
I gotcha. And they couldn't like fitness evolution couldn't put it

622
00:45:26,805 --> 00:45:30,705
up there either. Right? The billboard on that billboard because even, even though it's a business in

623
00:45:30,925 --> 00:45:34,765
there. All right counsel, you're still

624
00:45:35,155 --> 00:45:38,225
utilizing the, the, the, the

625
00:45:39,675 --> 00:45:43,445
east side directly across the building

626
00:45:43,785 --> 00:45:47,765
as there garden center I guess? Yes. This is still the garden

627
00:45:48,165 --> 00:45:51,955
center area and I think that there's farm products further back

628
00:45:52,265 --> 00:45:56,145
and into the rear of it. That is not an

629
00:45:56,365 --> 00:46:00,075
issue. Mm-hmm. Okay. Counsel,

630
00:46:00,865 --> 00:46:04,805
are you all feel comfortable enough to put this

631
00:46:05,785 --> 00:46:09,685
on the february 23rd regular meeting with the

632
00:46:09,845 --> 00:46:13,345
public hearing or do you have more questions to

633
00:46:13,885 --> 00:46:17,715
postpone for the law? I go forward. I'm good. Is everybody good? I'm good. Yeah. Okay.

634
00:46:18,385 --> 00:46:21,565
public hearing for that. Alright, thank you.

635
00:46:22,705 --> 00:46:26,085
and then item 2d is a request to vacate a portion of the unimproved

636
00:46:27,265 --> 00:46:30,945
low lane between braxton road and lot 27 a. Mr.

637
00:46:31,305 --> 00:46:35,225
pe this is you. So there's no picture of that up here. We don't have any pictures of

638
00:46:35,445 --> 00:46:39,425
that. I don't, don't have a picture. It's in your packet. I, that's got, I got lots of questions on

639
00:46:39,645 --> 00:46:43,645
this. Just, just curious. I'm, I just, I I think we

640
00:46:43,805 --> 00:46:47,445
all became curious of this one, uh, as it came up. It was not something,

641
00:46:48,065 --> 00:46:52,045
um, I think it came to planning first. Uh, you know,

642
00:46:52,145 --> 00:46:55,935
the applicant had this lot that what was assumed to be landlocked

643
00:46:56,655 --> 00:47:00,625
until they discovered low lane next to the, the

644
00:47:00,915 --> 00:47:04,675
lane connects singular to this property essentially.

645
00:47:05,745 --> 00:47:09,645
um, so they've requested that low lane

646
00:47:09,945 --> 00:47:13,245
be vacated. Uh, staff comments are provided.

647
00:47:13,955 --> 00:47:17,365
they did, uh, in the survey attached,

648
00:47:18,905 --> 00:47:22,735
uh, provided adequate, um, 20 foot sanitary sewer

649
00:47:23,365 --> 00:47:27,205
easement. The storm sewer easement is 20

650
00:47:27,635 --> 00:47:31,045
foot in their property and in the right of way until it

651
00:47:31,765 --> 00:47:34,875
meanders off of low lane. So they have

652
00:47:36,715 --> 00:47:40,395
illustrated that they would dedicate those easements otherwise,

653
00:47:41,705 --> 00:47:45,185
uh, I think counsel was, or counsel, I apologize. The staff was

654
00:47:45,915 --> 00:47:49,645
okay with it. Essentially, you know, if we were develop low lane,

655
00:47:50,025 --> 00:47:53,475
we would be developing a driveway to a parcel essentially.

656
00:47:54,305 --> 00:47:58,195
but is this over here then? So, so it's

657
00:47:58,485 --> 00:48:01,885
right here, right? Correct. Okay. But if you come down braxton road,

658
00:48:02,825 --> 00:48:06,725
so it would literally be, it's just that one little

659
00:48:06,955 --> 00:48:10,645
slip that's but what's this over here then? That, that's a gis

660
00:48:11,275 --> 00:48:15,125
it's if you look the color there is like the roads that

661
00:48:15,395 --> 00:48:18,525
gray, that's actually nothing. If you look at the picture to the left,

662
00:48:19,665 --> 00:48:23,515
you'll see that low lane is on the other side of racks then. Right. It's

663
00:48:23,805 --> 00:48:27,785
just grass or sewer line runs through. So, so we own

664
00:48:28,005 --> 00:48:31,005
this, we own that. They own this.

665
00:48:32,635 --> 00:48:36,625
they own the property. Yeah. Mm-hmm . That is just amazing. So, and

666
00:48:36,845 --> 00:48:40,565
this, uh, I I, they got it through an auction. They got it through a

667
00:48:40,865 --> 00:48:44,545
tax auction from the county. So the, the

668
00:48:45,125 --> 00:48:49,045
property that it's immediately behind, this was a piece of their property

669
00:48:49,165 --> 00:48:52,685
originally. They subdivided it off in the seventies and then something

670
00:48:53,405 --> 00:48:56,725
happened. But they didn't pay taxes on that parcel, that third

671
00:48:57,505 --> 00:49:01,245
launch, um, as far as 10 11 was auctioned off

672
00:49:01,585 --> 00:49:05,565
and he purchased it. But he can't construct a dwelling unit on it without

673
00:49:07,285 --> 00:49:11,225
building there a public road. Yeah. So,

674
00:49:11,445 --> 00:49:15,145
you know, I grew, well you wouldn't know that. So I grew up on mine street. Right. That's

675
00:49:15,565 --> 00:49:19,565
why I'm, I mean I I honestly, I'll have to get

676
00:49:19,925 --> 00:49:23,915
somebody to take me out there. I I, the reason why I'm saying that is is that that

677
00:49:24,265 --> 00:49:27,315
10 11, right? Right. Because ram's living 9 25, 10 11,

678
00:49:30,105 --> 00:49:33,745
um, I'm assuming is um,

679
00:49:34,365 --> 00:49:37,725
I mean I know who owned it and that that particular 10 11

680
00:49:38,945 --> 00:49:42,745
for years grew an entire garden in their front yard and

681
00:49:43,185 --> 00:49:47,125
it fed their, it was the vegetables that they used at their restaurant

682
00:49:47,365 --> 00:49:51,275
here in town. But it literally drops off like,

683
00:49:51,725 --> 00:49:55,435
I mean drops off behind it and it drops off and goes down.

684
00:49:55,775 --> 00:49:59,525
right. And so I guess what's behind 10 11

685
00:50:00,105 --> 00:50:03,965
is that drop off. I, there is no way a house could be

686
00:50:04,265 --> 00:50:07,445
put there. I cannot even, I mean it 'cause it goes like this.

687
00:50:08,465 --> 00:50:12,195
it it, yeah. Anyway, so who so challenge

688
00:50:13,395 --> 00:50:17,185
what? It's a challenge. Yeah. I would say frank, solid bill 10

689
00:50:17,405 --> 00:50:21,195
11 does, um, but does it ends there at that property? Does

690
00:50:21,625 --> 00:50:25,605
our line continue? That is your line. Yeah. Mm-hmm .

691
00:50:26,545 --> 00:50:29,165
so there's, we have a right of way behind these other houses.

692
00:50:31,825 --> 00:50:35,825
so also what may make it more difficult, you can't build on our

693
00:50:36,045 --> 00:50:39,985
right of way or sewer. I geographically I'm, yeah, I'd

694
00:50:40,205 --> 00:50:43,895
have to go to see it. So if you notice in the survey, so the sewer

695
00:50:44,245 --> 00:50:48,165
line, the existing 20 foot storm sewer easement yep. It has a

696
00:50:48,285 --> 00:50:51,855
deed book reference. And that's because it's going through the parcels. Right.

697
00:50:52,315 --> 00:50:56,215
once it exits the parcels, it then entered low lane, which we already own. Right?

698
00:50:56,585 --> 00:51:00,365
so there's no easement. It's in our property. So that's why they would be dedicating a

699
00:51:00,725 --> 00:51:04,285
proposed sewer line easement to if we were to vacate.

700
00:51:05,465 --> 00:51:08,725
and does the owner realize the approximate

701
00:51:09,475 --> 00:51:12,915
cost again, with our new method for calculating this,

702
00:51:13,865 --> 00:51:17,765
we haven't shared anything at this point until we've got this, this is to advertise for the public

703
00:51:17,925 --> 00:51:21,685
hearing. After this is initiated, we would share all the

704
00:51:22,045 --> 00:51:25,875
information. So the idea is that they

705
00:51:26,165 --> 00:51:29,205
would want, that, they would like for the town to vacate that.

706
00:51:30,465 --> 00:51:34,325
and then obviously except right, they wanna be able to purchase it so that they

707
00:51:34,565 --> 00:51:38,505
can access that lump of land right. Between between 10 11 and 2 27

708
00:51:39,515 --> 00:51:43,445
polk. Right. That's the idea. So just outta curiosity,

709
00:51:44,465 --> 00:51:48,265
so once we vacated it, that would be it's all

710
00:51:48,485 --> 00:51:52,245
on them, right? Right. They would so it wouldn't even be a private street.

711
00:51:53,145 --> 00:51:56,945
it wouldn't be low lane anymore. Driveway. Driveway. So they'd be responsible for

712
00:51:57,165 --> 00:52:00,805
that. So this little green patch right there,

713
00:52:01,625 --> 00:52:05,545
who owns that? That was, it's to the, uh, mr.

714
00:52:05,825 --> 00:52:09,485
ms. Kane right down the corner. Well then why is that black line there

715
00:52:10,025 --> 00:52:13,675
in they here too? I mean I, I really have been looking at these pictures because

716
00:52:14,165 --> 00:52:16,965
they, it is like two parcels. They have like a small little section.

717
00:52:18,505 --> 00:52:22,065
it is best to look at the survey. You can see that, um,

718
00:52:22,625 --> 00:52:25,725
it has the text map eight a and they also own lot nine

719
00:52:26,675 --> 00:52:30,565
unknown on the little people. Yeah. And that, and that's what I was gonna say.

720
00:52:30,685 --> 00:52:34,185
like that's not, that's my question because the same people have lived at 2 29

721
00:52:35,865 --> 00:52:39,845
pretty much my whole life. Or at least since I moved in the neighborhood. So I,

722
00:52:39,965 --> 00:52:43,765
that's why I thought that was I when it said owner unknown, 'cause I'm pretty sure they're

723
00:52:44,085 --> 00:52:47,545
the only owner that's ever owned it. Um,

724
00:52:48,505 --> 00:52:52,005
the boy and the survey says proposed wanda boy,

725
00:52:53,155 --> 00:52:56,165
west richard br drain, easement drain.

726
00:52:58,195 --> 00:53:02,195
yeah. There's an existing storm drain. There are the little gray things. What

727
00:53:02,485 --> 00:53:05,885
that is that what the little gray things are? Little square.

728
00:53:07,105 --> 00:53:10,645
the little gray things. They're the houses. They're the structures like within the yellow

729
00:53:11,305 --> 00:53:15,025
and the green. Oh, the little gray ones or sheds? Yeah. Oh,

730
00:53:15,375 --> 00:53:19,225
those are, it's like I said, it's the gis it's not

731
00:53:19,445 --> 00:53:23,205
always perfect. You can't use it as, but if you look at the aerial image

732
00:53:23,825 --> 00:53:27,625
to the left of it, you can can see there's a little shed back there. Yeah. So,

733
00:53:28,465 --> 00:53:32,125
so whoever owns 2 31 polk and whoever

734
00:53:32,475 --> 00:53:36,345
owns 2 29 polk. Right. You're I'm just asking. So

735
00:53:36,565 --> 00:53:40,325
the patch behind the pink line, right? Mm-hmm

736
00:53:40,765 --> 00:53:44,725
. They, they own whatever is butted up to that. We don't own that. We don't

737
00:53:44,925 --> 00:53:48,925
own any of it. I mean I, it says that they own it, but we don't. I thought I know

738
00:53:49,085 --> 00:53:52,945
it. We don't own it. The smaller of the two says owner unknown. Mm-hmm

739
00:53:53,405 --> 00:53:57,095
. Behind lot alone. And there's a wire fence

740
00:53:57,455 --> 00:53:57,455
along.

741
00:54:06,965 --> 00:54:10,825
my concern is we go too far down the rabbit hole and we say it's gonna cost

742
00:54:11,515 --> 00:54:14,885
8,000 or $10,000. Oh, I don't want to do that. And

743
00:54:15,875 --> 00:54:18,865
we've spent time and effort. I think this is, if you were,

744
00:54:20,765 --> 00:54:24,305
we may, they've applied for the application. You have to go to the

745
00:54:24,805 --> 00:54:28,545
public hearing. Gosh, yeah. It's, I, once they've

746
00:54:28,825 --> 00:54:31,915
submitted the application, that's the, so where we're

747
00:54:32,955 --> 00:54:36,105
going to get to that first public hearing and the applicant, the applicant

748
00:54:37,015 --> 00:54:40,605
owns that package. Does the applicant own 10 11? No.

749
00:54:41,245 --> 00:54:44,395
no, they just owned 20, they just owned that empty

750
00:54:45,425 --> 00:54:49,295
blob there. Lot 27 a one on me. Show that. Right. Okay. Okay.

751
00:54:49,585 --> 00:54:52,665
sorry. I don't, I don't see the benefit. Talented.

752
00:54:54,345 --> 00:54:57,985
I own, own it. I mean, I mean

753
00:54:58,825 --> 00:55:00,575
I don't think, I think it's alan.

754
00:55:04,015 --> 00:55:07,945
yeah. As long as I I'm just saying viewers in this case because of the, a

755
00:55:08,065 --> 00:55:11,665
bloody properties so unknown owner right here, you know

756
00:55:12,245 --> 00:55:16,185
lauren lot 27 a one. I

757
00:55:16,305 --> 00:55:20,185
mean little wayne, you believe that it's, I guess it's large enough to

758
00:55:20,795 --> 00:55:24,725
maybe a spot where somebody, well my kids play here, you know, or gonna oh

759
00:55:24,945 --> 00:55:28,425
that's, you would think that, but not really because I'm telling you

760
00:55:29,095 --> 00:55:33,025
it's out of a yeah. I I just don't have the concept. A square

761
00:55:33,265 --> 00:55:36,545
foot, I mean the house siting process

762
00:55:37,325 --> 00:55:41,265
and the ation. We'll go through our office, we'll review that to make sure it's appropriate.

763
00:55:42,225 --> 00:55:43,505
I mean, I walk back here, obviously

764
00:55:47,455 --> 00:55:50,855
dropped off. I know who owned originally two king.

765
00:55:56,815 --> 00:56:00,465
tell him with the slopes

766
00:56:00,825 --> 00:56:04,745
and stuff. Go to london there and get some properties. Get some . Alright, so the question is

767
00:56:04,975 --> 00:56:08,895
that, that it sounds like from what you said, regardless at this point it's

768
00:56:09,605 --> 00:56:13,495
has because they've applied, we have to go to the public hearing and then we'll hear

769
00:56:13,785 --> 00:56:16,465
what the public has to say and right. That's the idea.

770
00:56:17,905 --> 00:56:21,735
I don't get public hearing. I mean I personally think that we would get between

771
00:56:22,225 --> 00:56:26,065
now and then. Okay. So if everybody's okay with this, this could be a public hearing on

772
00:56:26,605 --> 00:56:30,485
february 23rd. And that's where you, similar to today, you have

773
00:56:30,645 --> 00:56:34,365
option to deny point viewers or to adopt an ordinance?

774
00:56:34,795 --> 00:56:38,765
well, if nobody from the public shows up to complaint, maybe like, like bruce, maybe it

775
00:56:38,925 --> 00:56:42,785
is a slam dunk. You know, I don't know. I mean it's just saying you have a sign out in

776
00:56:43,005 --> 00:56:46,855
lower lane or whatever it's called the public hearing. We

777
00:56:47,075 --> 00:56:50,905
haven't ever, you're letting us know tonight. Yeah. They

778
00:56:51,195 --> 00:56:55,155
won't have it for, but they go to public hearing. I thought, I

779
00:56:55,275 --> 00:56:59,015
thought you guys put it up when you had a public hearing. We don't have a public hearing for

780
00:56:59,395 --> 00:57:03,275
this. This, this is not land use. Not land use. Okay. We're the only ones

781
00:57:03,695 --> 00:57:07,625
decide to add on the straight moment. Okay.

782
00:57:09,555 --> 00:57:13,355
yep. Okay. Item am three as unfinished business. A request

783
00:57:13,695 --> 00:57:17,635
to reinstate two readings for public hearings. I certainly did enjoy going

784
00:57:17,955 --> 00:57:21,755
back and reading the minutes and stuff like that. 'cause it was like a blast from the past.

785
00:57:22,235 --> 00:57:26,075
I can remember all of those discussions. Also, you could see where,

786
00:57:26,615 --> 00:57:30,215
um, where some of the, you know, um,

787
00:57:32,005 --> 00:57:35,835
historical changes. Well that, that and that. And who

788
00:57:36,055 --> 00:57:39,845
was in fa more, you know, I, I mean there, there

789
00:57:40,475 --> 00:57:44,335
I will say one thing you could tell for read in a minutes, there was some objections to it for

790
00:57:44,675 --> 00:57:48,635
concerns. But it's just one of those things. 'cause I admit

791
00:57:49,035 --> 00:57:52,875
I voted for it. But I look back and, you know, you live and learn sometimes you

792
00:57:53,075 --> 00:57:56,555
do these things and you think unintended consequences sometimes.

793
00:57:57,255 --> 00:57:59,795
but anyway, so thoughts on this.

794
00:58:01,615 --> 00:58:05,355
so don't we have, it says joe petty beside of it, but it's not you. I don't know why

795
00:58:05,655 --> 00:58:09,395
it says you don't. We have the opportunity to keep the public hearing

796
00:58:10,265 --> 00:58:14,075
open for the next mark. And we have a case by case

797
00:58:14,275 --> 00:58:18,235
basis if we, we can't make up our minds or something, we just leave the public

798
00:58:18,435 --> 00:58:22,115
hearing open and we take it up at the next meeting. Yep. If that's what

799
00:58:22,575 --> 00:58:26,475
member makes, then we're gonna do two readings on everything. So it's

800
00:58:26,715 --> 00:58:30,205
two months. It's longer. I'm just thinking,

801
00:58:30,825 --> 00:58:34,655
do we, do we need that when we could leave,

802
00:58:35,135 --> 00:58:39,075
leave it , but it would have

803
00:58:39,275 --> 00:58:43,215
to be a vote to, a council member would have

804
00:58:43,455 --> 00:58:47,375
to make the motion to leave. Well, not even, it's not

805
00:58:47,495 --> 00:58:51,055
even making a motion. It's a, some kind of something we squeeze in there at the end.

806
00:58:51,615 --> 00:58:54,975
I can't close the public hearing. We have to leave the public hearing.

807
00:58:55,735 --> 00:58:58,855
somebody on council has to say, once the public's done talking

808
00:59:00,085 --> 00:59:03,865
that they wanna leave the public hearing open and they have to name the dates. Right.

809
00:59:04,355 --> 00:59:08,035
that's, that's how we've done it in the past. Right. It have to a date certain. Yeah. Yep.

810
00:59:08,435 --> 00:59:12,335
and doesn't it have to have a majority vote for that? It really should be the next

811
00:59:12,495 --> 00:59:16,495
regular meeting. Right. But doesn't, it doesn't, there have to be a

812
00:59:16,815 --> 00:59:20,815
majority people, so you have to make sure that every, the majority

813
00:59:21,065 --> 00:59:24,975
of counsel agrees that it needs to have a second night

814
00:59:25,625 --> 00:59:29,365
to contemplate it. I guess basically a second in the case. You're

815
00:59:29,725 --> 00:59:33,615
presenting right now a second opportunity for the public to come right.

816
00:59:33,965 --> 00:59:37,935
and express their views. Right. I'm all for having

817
00:59:38,195 --> 00:59:41,905
two, I mean, I don't mind having two public readings and two public input

818
00:59:42,255 --> 00:59:45,655
sessions, but the part that I raises my eyebrow

819
00:59:46,435 --> 00:59:50,415
is having the two, you know, the not the first non banding vote and then the second

820
00:59:51,355 --> 00:59:55,245
vote for it. I don't, I think that throws a lot of confusion out. I mean, if I'm a, if

821
00:59:55,365 --> 00:59:59,285
I'm an applicant coming in here and, you know, and if I get a, a, an affirmative vote,

822
00:59:59,835 --> 01:00:03,165
even though it might be do non-binding the first time and then I get

823
01:00:03,995 --> 01:00:07,845
another hearing and then all of a sudden it's a no, and I'm, it's, to me, it just,

824
01:00:09,065 --> 01:00:13,025
again, I, I having one vote, I, I fine, but I,

825
01:00:13,105 --> 01:00:16,545
I, I don't like the idea of having two separate votes, even though one might be non-binding.

826
01:00:17,265 --> 01:00:20,945
to me, it just adds confusion. I mean, not just to the public. I think it adds confusion

827
01:00:21,485 --> 01:00:25,105
to the applicants as well. It's how the town of front royals governing body

828
01:00:25,745 --> 01:00:29,525
operated its entire existence up until three years ago. So,

829
01:00:30,485 --> 01:00:34,265
um, with that being said, it's not something that I proposed because we can't make

830
01:00:34,505 --> 01:00:38,465
up our mind at a meeting and need to leave it open. I proposed it because a lot

831
01:00:38,625 --> 01:00:42,465
of constituents asked for me to ensure that I fought to bring this back.

832
01:00:43,015 --> 01:00:46,705
because what happens is we learn brand new information.

833
01:00:48,005 --> 01:00:51,805
tina's handed pamphlets of papers and pictures and letters and

834
01:00:52,145 --> 01:00:56,025
petitions, and they're passed down the diocese. Well, I'm supposed to be pretending to

835
01:00:56,185 --> 01:00:59,465
listen to this speaker, but I also have to read this entire three page article

836
01:01:00,205 --> 01:01:04,195
before they're done speaking, and then we have to go to make a decision. Or there

837
01:01:04,545 --> 01:01:08,525
are people who don't know about the public hearing until the press writes

838
01:01:08,945 --> 01:01:12,945
about it from a meeting, and then they're like, well, I wish I would've known that.

839
01:01:13,205 --> 01:01:16,925
so I could have been a part of that. I've heard that too, but I've not heard people say two votes. So

840
01:01:17,245 --> 01:01:21,145
how tina how many years did we do that? I, I know you said the

841
01:01:21,305 --> 01:01:25,305
year you said it was, it was before 1993. So since before, so we

842
01:01:25,505 --> 01:01:29,325
did two readings since before 1993. This is the way the government had always operated. It

843
01:01:29,545 --> 01:01:33,455
was changed because there were council members who didn't want to have

844
01:01:34,685 --> 01:01:38,585
as many council meetings. That is the entire reason it was changed,

845
01:01:39,165 --> 01:01:43,045
was it not? So we didn't have to meet as often. Well, I think,

846
01:01:43,525 --> 01:01:47,445
I think, I don't want to, I don't want to summarize things, but you can read the

847
01:01:47,645 --> 01:01:51,285
minutes becky and take from it what you, to your point,

848
01:01:51,825 --> 01:01:55,805
new information comes to us. Yeah. We leave them, you know, in light

849
01:01:56,045 --> 01:01:59,485
of new information tonight. We need more time

850
01:02:00,665 --> 01:02:04,245
to do that, and we leave the meeting open. I mean, I, it's political then, because

851
01:02:04,745 --> 01:02:08,565
if you've lobbied your votes beforehand, which happens on this council in council's

852
01:02:09,205 --> 01:02:13,125
previous, you call people and say, what do you think about tonight? How are you gonna vote? I know I'm gonna vote. And then

853
01:02:13,285 --> 01:02:17,245
you hear all this new information. So you've already decided you don't wanna leave it

854
01:02:17,405 --> 01:02:21,185
open at that point. It takes the politics out of it. It is the

855
01:02:21,605 --> 01:02:24,995
standard practice for this governing body to hear the information, process

856
01:02:25,665 --> 01:02:29,645
the information, and then take decisive action on it. It can't be

857
01:02:29,765 --> 01:02:33,285
something that I have to have enough lobbied votes to keep it open.

858
01:02:33,995 --> 01:02:37,785
that becomes very political. I, I agree again, but

859
01:02:38,245 --> 01:02:41,925
I have not heard anybody say like the voting part of it. I personally,

860
01:02:42,485 --> 01:02:46,125
I mean, I heard, I've heard more people say that they would love to have two public hearings,

861
01:02:46,525 --> 01:02:50,445
but I don't, that's how the two public hearings always worked. They always had a vote. You had

862
01:02:50,565 --> 01:02:54,465
to vote most times. Always. Don't they? It's one public hearing. One

863
01:02:54,685 --> 01:02:58,525
public hearing. One public hearing. Yeah. The, the vote happens, the two readings

864
01:02:58,925 --> 01:03:02,845
of it. Mm-hmm. I think the, I the school does it this way. What it happens

865
01:03:03,065 --> 01:03:06,705
at the second reading then, if you're not having the public hearing for warren input or public

866
01:03:07,325 --> 01:03:11,075
comments come before it mm-hmm . Okay. I, I don't know.

867
01:03:11,985 --> 01:03:15,355
yeah. The school board does do two readings. Well, yeah, I

868
01:03:16,695 --> 01:03:20,095
two votes though. Hold on. Actually no,

869
01:03:22,165 --> 01:03:25,875
no. If the second reading I'm talking about, you all said public comments would

870
01:03:26,225 --> 01:03:29,705
come before it actually, no. Right, tina? Because

871
01:03:30,365 --> 01:03:33,735
if there was a, it would be a business item at the second reading, so we would get, okay.

872
01:03:34,945 --> 01:03:38,665
I didn't, that, that was one of the reasons why too, we changed the order of

873
01:03:39,065 --> 01:03:43,065
business, not this group, but before was because it, public comments used to be

874
01:03:43,245 --> 01:03:47,025
to get less, like the first thing and the second thing. Okay. I'm sorry. Yeah, that's correct.

875
01:03:47,605 --> 01:03:51,465
and I, and I do understand, and, and councilman would I, I feel like

876
01:03:51,625 --> 01:03:55,405
maybe that was the meeting you weren't here for when we discussed this maybe, but,

877
01:03:56,205 --> 01:04:00,185
um, I, you know, the tricky part is, is that there are some things

878
01:04:01,415 --> 01:04:04,465
that really are, I won't say simple,

879
01:04:05,445 --> 01:04:09,225
but they're, they're easier that you're like, really? It doesn't, it wouldn't need

880
01:04:09,545 --> 01:04:13,405
a second reading. As I said, ms pre and I, we've had this conversation how

881
01:04:13,625 --> 01:04:17,215
there are items that really don't need a second reading that,

882
01:04:17,805 --> 01:04:21,805
you know, but, but mr. Son said there's no way for us to, to

883
01:04:22,025 --> 01:04:25,925
like basically put things on the agenda that says this thing needs two

884
01:04:26,145 --> 01:04:30,025
readings. This thing needs one reading or whatever. We have to do it uniform one way

885
01:04:30,305 --> 01:04:34,275
or the other. Um, but then there are other items where,

886
01:04:35,645 --> 01:04:39,445
you know, it is a lot. I mean, I, I, I will, you

887
01:04:39,665 --> 01:04:43,345
know, there have been times where I felt like there was a lot of information

888
01:04:43,945 --> 01:04:46,175
that was shared and,

889
01:04:48,065 --> 01:04:51,965
and, and the vote was gonna be taken. And that's true. You have to be decide.

890
01:04:52,705 --> 01:04:56,225
and I would, I understand what you're saying about we can leave the public hearing open. That's true. That's

891
01:04:56,805 --> 01:05:00,565
absolutely true. However, you can only do that

892
01:05:00,985 --> 01:05:04,955
if the majority of the people on the council agree with you to leave it open.

893
01:05:05,985 --> 01:05:09,925
do you know what I mean? So, for example, you know,

894
01:05:10,545 --> 01:05:14,325
two people were like, oh my gosh, that was a, in their head, there was a, that

895
01:05:14,605 --> 01:05:18,525
was a lot of new information, you know, know, I don't think I'm really ready to make a

896
01:05:18,805 --> 01:05:22,725
decision yet. But the other four people are like, I'm ready to make a decision. So they don't wanna

897
01:05:22,925 --> 01:05:26,775
leave the public hearing open, then you gotta make it right, mr. Sauna.

898
01:05:27,125 --> 01:05:30,765
I mean, that's, that's the down motion requires a motion to pass. Yeah. That's the downfall

899
01:05:31,465 --> 01:05:35,345
of, so the other thing is, if I may mm-hmm . So there's leaving the

900
01:05:35,565 --> 01:05:39,175
o uh, public hearing open in the case of well,

901
01:05:39,655 --> 01:05:42,955
leaving it open, uh, closing it and postponing

902
01:05:43,805 --> 01:05:47,745
action. Uh, these are under robert's rules, right.

903
01:05:48,275 --> 01:05:50,335
uh, and there's also reconsideration.

904
01:05:52,315 --> 01:05:56,095
now that's very restricted.

905
01:05:56,515 --> 01:06:00,435
it has to be at the next meeting. You can't, yeah. It also has

906
01:06:00,655 --> 01:06:04,605
to be somebody that voted against it in the first

907
01:06:04,765 --> 01:06:08,205
place. They're the only people that can bring it up for a reconsideration. Correct?

908
01:06:08,875 --> 01:06:12,525
yeah. Correct. I don't know that, I don't know that I've ever been. So those are addressed in robert's

909
01:06:12,925 --> 01:06:16,525
rules. But each of those, in the case of reconsideration,

910
01:06:17,185 --> 01:06:21,085
you have to have a majority vote just to put it

911
01:06:21,205 --> 01:06:25,165
back on the table. Right. And then discuss it, and then another

912
01:06:25,485 --> 01:06:29,305
vote if you're gonna, well, another, so it's two votes for

913
01:06:29,525 --> 01:06:33,525
a reconsideration. First one is to actually agree to reconsider,

914
01:06:35,035 --> 01:06:38,255
and the second vote is on the merits. So

915
01:06:39,105 --> 01:06:43,015
leaving public hearing open, uh, or

916
01:06:43,385 --> 01:06:46,595
closing it and postponing action to another date, certain

917
01:06:47,975 --> 01:06:51,235
or reconsideration. Those are all addressed in robert's rules.

918
01:06:52,985 --> 01:06:56,815
there's no way to get public input on this part. This I, I'm just, as

919
01:06:57,035 --> 01:07:00,725
we're all sitting here talking about it, there's no way to get public input

920
01:07:01,095 --> 01:07:04,775
on this unless we put it on an agenda rate. We, this I it

921
01:07:05,195 --> 01:07:08,635
requires an ordinance for yeah. But we could bring it to the february 23rd meeting

922
01:07:09,325 --> 01:07:12,415
under public comments. Under public hearing rather,

923
01:07:13,375 --> 01:07:16,835
and say, receive public input for considering two readings.

924
01:07:17,535 --> 01:07:21,475
it requires a public hearing for you to do this. 'cause we have to amend your orders amending the

925
01:07:21,875 --> 01:07:25,755
. But could we receive public input? Like we've done, we did that.

926
01:07:25,935 --> 01:07:29,515
we did that one other time. I think it was an alley thing. There was a time where we said,

927
01:07:30,565 --> 01:07:34,295
let's receive public input, but we didn't take action on it because this was

928
01:07:34,575 --> 01:07:38,455
the most asked thing the last time I ran, was to bring back two readings. But

929
01:07:38,675 --> 01:07:42,555
see, I never heard of anybody asking for two different votes. That's how it always has been.

930
01:07:42,745 --> 01:07:46,655
read the minutes. We've always voted twice when there were two readings. You have to take action.

931
01:07:48,855 --> 01:07:52,755
but the school board doesn vote, vote the way the town is. You're

932
01:07:53,075 --> 01:07:57,015
not voting twice, only two votes. You're voting to close the public hearing. You're

933
01:07:57,435 --> 01:07:59,875
not voting, approve or deny. It sounds like,

934
01:08:01,855 --> 01:08:05,055
of all sounds like comment. It doesn't sound like we're ready. So

935
01:08:05,905 --> 01:08:09,815
I've been on council two years. Can you gimme some examples of why we

936
01:08:10,035 --> 01:08:11,905
needed this? Well,

937
01:08:14,065 --> 01:08:17,725
yeah, I was gonna say, I would love to, amber was the one that brought it up at the last meeting.

938
01:08:18,085 --> 01:08:22,005
I mean, I brought it up before, obviously I said that, but when she brought it up

939
01:08:22,915 --> 01:08:26,445
this time was like, just some time, for example,

940
01:08:27,675 --> 01:08:31,525
some public hearings where while we're at the public

941
01:08:31,805 --> 01:08:35,405
hearing, I'll give you an example of one that was before any of y'all were here.

942
01:08:36,065 --> 01:08:39,695
we came to a meeting and we thought it was, I thought, this is an easy issue.

943
01:08:40,515 --> 01:08:44,485
this isn't big deal. I got to the meeting, there was like 21 people in the back of the

944
01:08:44,605 --> 01:08:48,485
room, and I was like, what are all these people here for? And it was,

945
01:08:48,865 --> 01:08:52,785
um, about, about zoning this piece of land. Um,

946
01:08:53,665 --> 01:08:57,485
and one of the ladies stood up and said, there's actually a cemetery

947
01:08:57,795 --> 01:09:01,095
back there. And anyway, long story short,

948
01:09:02,145 --> 01:09:06,025
um, uh, there was no time to,

949
01:09:06,425 --> 01:09:10,425
to collab. Is that, is that true? Is

950
01:09:10,645 --> 01:09:14,465
it not true? We're not allowed to have discussion on the ballot. Yeah. It wasn't like that. And so the

951
01:09:14,685 --> 01:09:18,645
public brought information, staff didn't seem to know anything about it

952
01:09:18,845 --> 01:09:22,525
or whatever, and, and the vote was taken. Take example, leaving the meeting. Yeah, yeah,

953
01:09:22,995 --> 01:09:26,715
yeah. It should have been. But, but people weren't doing that

954
01:09:27,035 --> 01:09:31,005
much. And the only way to have left that open would've

955
01:09:31,565 --> 01:09:35,435
been if the majority of the council members said,

956
01:09:36,115 --> 01:09:39,835
yeah, I agree. We should hear it. And I don't know that,

957
01:09:40,885 --> 01:09:44,545
I don't know that it's an item that you can,

958
01:09:44,945 --> 01:09:48,885
um, what's the word I'm looking for? Rally to be able

959
01:09:49,045 --> 01:09:53,005
to be like, counsel, I think we should leave this public hearing open. We've never done it that

960
01:09:53,165 --> 01:09:57,165
way. It's been more like somebody just makes the, makes the suggestion.

961
01:09:57,685 --> 01:10:01,605
I think we should leave the public hearing open. And there isn't like a motion and a

962
01:10:01,725 --> 01:10:05,685
discussion. Correct. Mr. Sonnet, when somebody says, let's leave

963
01:10:05,905 --> 01:10:09,605
the public hearing open. It's not like, then it moves into a discussion

964
01:10:10,045 --> 01:10:13,965
where we all discuss why we should think we should leave it open. It's just a

965
01:10:14,085 --> 01:10:17,765
yay or a nay parliamentary. That's a nuance I'd have to look at. But I think

966
01:10:18,185 --> 01:10:22,005
I'm just saying we haven't the, that, that might be a nuance in robert's rules. But I think

967
01:10:22,225 --> 01:10:26,165
if you still have a discussion on the motion, right? Have motion, have a

968
01:10:26,245 --> 01:10:30,005
discussion on the motion. But some motions you don't have discussion procedure prohibits

969
01:10:30,575 --> 01:10:34,525
discussion amongst the members of this council. If the people on this council

970
01:10:34,725 --> 01:10:38,515
were to read robert's rules of order and understand it, we are not allowed

971
01:10:39,005 --> 01:10:42,845
to engage in back and forth dialect. The person who makes the motion gets the first

972
01:10:44,365 --> 01:10:48,265
to speak to the motion and add discussion. Each person gets to add discussion.

973
01:10:48,705 --> 01:10:52,345
there should not be two times speaking, there should be no back and forth. There's no rebuttals

974
01:10:52,785 --> 01:10:56,545
in robert's rules of order. It's very uncomfortable. But this is the way the government was intended

975
01:10:56,965 --> 01:11:00,905
to operate. Also, as I'm looking back through here, there's been multiple,

976
01:11:01,625 --> 01:11:05,585
multiple public hearings since october, 2025 until february 2nd, 2025

977
01:11:07,495 --> 01:11:11,385
that we've discussed. We had six public hearings tonight. Not a single

978
01:11:11,625 --> 01:11:15,045
speaker showed up to a single one of those. They wake up tomorrow morning

979
01:11:15,785 --> 01:11:19,525
and they see on the royal examiner in the northern virginia daily, the six public hearings

980
01:11:19,965 --> 01:11:23,445
that had not a single speaker that were all passed unanimously. And they're like,

981
01:11:23,995 --> 01:11:27,945
well, I wish I would've known because the weather, the ice, whatever the case may

982
01:11:28,165 --> 01:11:32,125
have been, they didn't come to a work session at the town hall. That's done deal.

983
01:11:32,505 --> 01:11:36,465
that's, we changed town code tonight. It's done deal . So I'm

984
01:11:36,685 --> 01:11:40,505
just saying, I'm sorry that you guys haven't gotten that same feedback. I know, and

985
01:11:40,765 --> 01:11:44,645
I think you have experienced it as well. There is a large majority of

986
01:11:44,805 --> 01:11:48,485
this community who rallied and asked me, if you're reelected,

987
01:11:48,875 --> 01:11:52,125
will you be a proponent for two public hearings? And the name and sake of transparency

988
01:11:53,345 --> 01:11:54,165
in the front royal government?

989
01:11:57,565 --> 01:12:01,465
how can you, I don't understand how you can process that information while someone's

990
01:12:02,105 --> 01:12:05,745
standing at a podium speaking to you and say, you truly gave it a thought.

991
01:12:06,285 --> 01:12:09,665
or if they said, ride by and look at x, y, z this time of day,

992
01:12:10,565 --> 01:12:14,265
now I'm gonna make my decision, or I'm gonna leave the public hearing open and hope

993
01:12:14,855 --> 01:12:18,825
that four other people are just as confused or passionate about the issue as me.

994
01:12:19,245 --> 01:12:23,125
that's where it becomes political because your friend applies for an alley vacation. It

995
01:12:23,345 --> 01:12:27,345
seems like a slam dunk. Nobody shows up and opposes it. You vacate this

996
01:12:27,545 --> 01:12:31,425
alley and then you look back and somebody tried to leave it open and you were like, well, I knew enough about the

997
01:12:31,625 --> 01:12:35,045
matter, but why can't we just do it like the school board, just do

998
01:12:36,165 --> 01:12:39,865
two readings and then and a vote. I mean, wouldn't that serve the same?

999
01:12:40,945 --> 01:12:42,865
I mean, I I'm all for it too. I'm just saying, iiii

1000
01:12:45,425 --> 01:12:49,305
kind hear what you're, it's confusing if they don't have to take a vote after the first

1001
01:12:49,465 --> 01:12:53,305
reading and a vote after the second reading. Why? That's all I, that's all I'm saying.

1002
01:12:53,825 --> 01:12:57,725
I mean, why, why? I mean, that's, that's, do we, go ahead. Well, I, I just have one comment, and

1003
01:12:58,135 --> 01:13:02,055
this is not from one or the other, but the one question I would say is also

1004
01:13:02,345 --> 01:13:06,205
thinking that we have a work session ahead of time and, you

1005
01:13:06,425 --> 01:13:10,025
know, that's an opportunity for, but it also creates a little confusion

1006
01:13:10,505 --> 01:13:14,505
because there are times where we don't allow the public or even the applicant

1007
01:13:15,085 --> 01:13:18,905
to speak at that time. So, you know, it's just staff talking

1008
01:13:19,445 --> 01:13:23,405
to, so if, if it were to go this route of having, you

1009
01:13:23,625 --> 01:13:26,625
know, a public hearing and then a later vote, you know,

1010
01:13:27,785 --> 01:13:31,745
I would like to look at that process as well as how much is given, how much

1011
01:13:31,905 --> 01:13:35,585
information is given at the work session where the public doesn't

1012
01:13:36,025 --> 01:13:39,945
have the opportunity. 'cause then we give it, and then we're hearing it sometimes for the first

1013
01:13:40,215 --> 01:13:44,065
time as well at the public hearing that was put on the spot.

1014
01:13:44,265 --> 01:13:48,145
so it's, so it's, you know, land use goes through planning commission. We have

1015
01:13:48,305 --> 01:13:52,105
a little bit more background, but then it's almost as if we're talking about

1016
01:13:52,385 --> 01:13:56,265
it a few times before the public gets that chance. I'd like to think about

1017
01:13:56,445 --> 01:14:00,265
how the work session element plays into then the two readings.

1018
01:14:00,825 --> 01:14:04,825
because I do think the meetings, you had two regular meetings when you had

1019
01:14:04,985 --> 01:14:08,965
the two, and now we have two work sessions that are regular. But the thing about a reading is,

1020
01:14:10,905 --> 01:14:13,915
I, I don't think, because I did serve at the time before,

1021
01:14:15,635 --> 01:14:18,815
um, we still had the, we still had the presentation

1022
01:14:19,915 --> 01:14:23,795
by staff at the work session. The, the

1023
01:14:24,095 --> 01:14:27,565
readings were, and the opportunity at the public comment

1024
01:14:28,115 --> 01:14:32,055
or whatever. Um, but, but

1025
01:14:32,275 --> 01:14:36,135
we didn't go into it blind. Like we at least had knowledge about what the,

1026
01:14:36,505 --> 01:14:39,875
what the issue was, and then the public spoke on it.

1027
01:14:40,575 --> 01:14:44,555
um, so I, I don't, I don't know, I don't know that

1028
01:14:44,675 --> 01:14:48,515
I would wanna do away with discussing it at the work session first, or at least hearing

1029
01:14:48,835 --> 01:14:52,775
about it on the work session. And that's something I like, you know, is about how, how

1030
01:14:52,995 --> 01:14:56,915
that is displayed and how it's discussed. And if it's like, like the item earlier,

1031
01:14:58,175 --> 01:15:01,915
if it's more about we need to talk about this more, we'll kick it to another work session or otherwise

1032
01:15:02,335 --> 01:15:06,275
the application is complete, everything is here, we go to the public

1033
01:15:06,515 --> 01:15:09,695
hearing and allow the public that opportunity. Um,

1034
01:15:10,855 --> 01:15:14,655
and I'd just like to also figure out that process as well. Not,

1035
01:15:14,935 --> 01:15:18,835
not to take away from the open discussion. It's just talking about

1036
01:15:18,955 --> 01:15:22,635
it two or three times the public hearing. Usually by the time it goes to the public hearing, they have

1037
01:15:23,375 --> 01:15:27,235
had the opportunity if they wanted to, if the work session right. But then

1038
01:15:27,745 --> 01:15:31,465
also they, um, they hear what

1039
01:15:32,255 --> 01:15:36,115
it is that's being like, not proposed, but what

1040
01:15:36,315 --> 01:15:40,265
the options are. Because if you look at the agenda, it'll say on there, like

1041
01:15:40,945 --> 01:15:44,835
this motion, sometimes the motions get changed, but at least they get an idea

1042
01:15:45,115 --> 01:15:48,395
of it. Instead of, I, I don't, it doesn't sound like,

1043
01:15:49,415 --> 01:15:53,335
it doesn't sound like we have enough answers to questions yet to, to

1044
01:15:53,745 --> 01:15:57,635
move this to any particular direction. Um, we can bring

1045
01:15:57,955 --> 01:16:01,955
it up again or, or, you know, I'm fine with letting it die. And me being the only

1046
01:16:02,075 --> 01:16:05,995
one who was a proponent to reinstate amber, you're not to reinstate the way

1047
01:16:06,115 --> 01:16:09,995
it was before I was speaking. I am looking to reinstate. I never

1048
01:16:10,195 --> 01:16:14,155
asked for two votes. I asked to reestablish and reinstate the way the town of

1049
01:16:14,275 --> 01:16:18,195
front royal governed. With that being said, I am fine that I am

1050
01:16:18,415 --> 01:16:22,355
the minority in that. With that being said, put yourself in the

1051
01:16:22,675 --> 01:16:26,525
public's position before you were elected to this council and think if you understood

1052
01:16:27,255 --> 01:16:30,275
and fully could digress what a public hearing mattered

1053
01:16:31,535 --> 01:16:34,715
or if you read about it, then you were like, man, I wish I would've known about that sooner.

1054
01:16:35,615 --> 01:16:39,455
or if you were on vacation and you couldn't attend the public hearing and

1055
01:16:39,675 --> 01:16:43,635
you were like, if only there was a second opportunity to have the public's matters be heard.

1056
01:16:44,315 --> 01:16:47,995
I never said I wanted two votes. I said I wanted to reinstate the way the town of for royal governed

1057
01:16:48,395 --> 01:16:52,155
when I sat here with scott lloyd, joe mcfadden, chris holloway, lori cockrell,

1058
01:16:52,495 --> 01:16:56,495
and zach jackson. And that is the way in which it operated. I did

1059
01:16:56,715 --> 01:17:00,615
you want, did you wanna offer something? Well, first of all, to

1060
01:17:00,835 --> 01:17:03,675
mr. Wood's point, I haven't heard one complaint

1061
01:17:05,625 --> 01:17:09,615
from anyone okay. Okay. About how things are rolling right

1062
01:17:09,965 --> 01:17:13,685
now. Okay. I mean, I, I can't speak for anyone else

1063
01:17:14,225 --> 01:17:18,195
on council here, but I haven't heard one complaint come

1064
01:17:18,955 --> 01:17:22,685
from the firm about how lori and I both have.

1065
01:17:22,985 --> 01:17:26,635
so I'm not a liar. So I I'm not, I'm not calling

1066
01:17:27,185 --> 01:17:31,085
anyone liar. Okay. But, but I'm, I'm just saying I haven't heard

1067
01:17:31,205 --> 01:17:34,785
a complaint, uh, to that point. The,

1068
01:17:35,945 --> 01:17:39,905
the thing is, do do we

1069
01:17:40,225 --> 01:17:43,905
as a whole get the information out

1070
01:17:44,785 --> 01:17:48,765
to the public? I mean, I mean, do we really,

1071
01:17:50,405 --> 01:17:54,385
I mean, are are signs, for example, for our,

1072
01:17:54,825 --> 01:17:58,795
um, public hearing, public hearing, public hearing signs, they're

1073
01:17:59,285 --> 01:18:03,025
minuscule. I mean, and they're very low. And

1074
01:18:03,785 --> 01:18:07,645
if you know, you, you know, the gentleman talked

1075
01:18:08,055 --> 01:18:10,715
about the small signs of the earlier

1076
01:18:12,175 --> 01:18:15,785
today, but, uh, that, that's another point. Do,

1077
01:18:16,465 --> 01:18:20,365
do we get the information out so that the public knows a lot of times

1078
01:18:20,625 --> 01:18:24,605
the public, that's why they don't show up to meetings because they don't know.

1079
01:18:25,985 --> 01:18:29,985
so, um, you know, that's an, I'm flipping the chart here, you

1080
01:18:30,205 --> 01:18:34,165
know? Mm-hmm . Um, that's, I'm just throwing that out there.

1081
01:18:34,785 --> 01:18:38,485
no, I gotcha. And the thing is, you can provide information, but you can't make people

1082
01:18:38,835 --> 01:18:42,715
read it. Um, I understand newspapers or most

1083
01:18:43,005 --> 01:18:46,965
people, they get everything from online. But I will say one thing

1084
01:18:47,125 --> 01:18:50,935
about what you just said, every person on this council got the same email

1085
01:18:51,285 --> 01:18:55,285
that I did. I'm trying to think which month it was. There was

1086
01:18:55,445 --> 01:18:59,205
a lee, I know exactly who the lee, I remember her name, but it was something

1087
01:18:59,565 --> 01:19:03,565
we voted on. It wasn't the a du, it was the something else.

1088
01:19:04,425 --> 01:19:08,175
and she emailed a very long pointed email about

1089
01:19:08,875 --> 01:19:12,565
that. We had voted on that. And that, you know, she was upset about it.

1090
01:19:13,345 --> 01:19:16,325
um, and the thing was, in my head,

1091
01:19:17,725 --> 01:19:21,125
I said, well, you could have come and spoke,

1092
01:19:22,185 --> 01:19:26,055
but she didn't. Right. And so, so to me, those

1093
01:19:26,465 --> 01:19:30,045
are the, those, those are the situations like a

1094
01:19:30,485 --> 01:19:34,235
situation like that where other people that have said to me too, like that, that,

1095
01:19:35,715 --> 01:19:39,565
that, you know, you wanted to get the most public input as you could or whatever.

1096
01:19:39,985 --> 01:19:43,775
so that is a time when everybody in here got that same email. Again,

1097
01:19:44,315 --> 01:19:48,205
it's not our fault that somebody didn't read the agenda

1098
01:19:48,985 --> 01:19:52,755
and know what was on it, but I think it is true that

1099
01:19:53,515 --> 01:19:56,125
sometimes people read the after the fact

1100
01:19:57,785 --> 01:20:01,705
and, and then say, oh, like, I wish I'd

1101
01:20:01,925 --> 01:20:05,845
known that. Now abutting property owners get, get letters about something happening.

1102
01:20:06,825 --> 01:20:10,605
but like, for example, something that happened in my neighborhood years ago and it, I did,

1103
01:20:10,925 --> 01:20:14,245
I wasn't the abutting property, but it sure impacted my street.

1104
01:20:15,025 --> 01:20:18,925
and I, I wasn't paying attention and didn't know about it until it was all said

1105
01:20:19,125 --> 01:20:23,085
and done. So anyway, josh, go ahead. You, you had something else to say and then we'll move on. Well, what I'm

1106
01:20:23,285 --> 01:20:27,115
saying is, is that, you know, amber, you're not a minority. 'cause I said it too. I, I've

1107
01:20:27,405 --> 01:20:31,365
said people ask me if I would be in favor of bringing back two readings, and I

1108
01:20:31,485 --> 01:20:35,485
am. So for you to say that you're in a minority, okay, there must be three of us here. At least. I

1109
01:20:35,685 --> 01:20:39,605
I, I'm getting, I don't think anybody's gang it up on you or anything like that. I, I don't think anything of,

1110
01:20:39,915 --> 01:20:43,665
okay, well, all I'm saying is, is that, and you just agreed too,

1111
01:20:44,005 --> 01:20:47,805
that you never asked for having two votes. And that's all I'm saying is that I'm for it.

1112
01:20:48,085 --> 01:20:52,085
I just don't, I just don't, I just think having two votes is confusing. It's that simple. That's all

1113
01:20:52,135 --> 01:20:55,015
those two votes we discussed that at the last george legal

1114
01:20:56,665 --> 01:21:00,245
one vote, right? No, according, but you're not taking affirmative

1115
01:21:00,985 --> 01:21:04,645
action on the action item at the first public hearing reading.

1116
01:21:05,105 --> 01:21:08,985
if you guys wanna go back and watch our last work session so we can expedite this process. George

1117
01:21:09,475 --> 01:21:13,295
gave legal advisement at that work session where we asked these same exact

1118
01:21:13,925 --> 01:21:17,925
questions on why it was required that we took two votes. It wasn't two votes to approve

1119
01:21:18,385 --> 01:21:21,505
or deny. It's to move it forward. Yes.

1120
01:21:22,555 --> 01:21:25,815
yeah. Anyway, but I, but I do, but I do understand

1121
01:21:26,675 --> 01:21:29,845
what you're saying. 'cause I know in the past with other governing bodies,

1122
01:21:31,025 --> 01:21:35,005
it, if people flipped their vote, I'm not saying flip their vote,

1123
01:21:35,285 --> 01:21:39,165
but that was the impression, tina, you know, is that the first night they

1124
01:21:39,525 --> 01:21:43,525
heard the reading, they said, yeah, you learned information and then before the information, and then before the second

1125
01:21:43,785 --> 01:21:47,605
one when they said no, people were trying to figure out, well, what changed their mind

1126
01:21:47,805 --> 01:21:51,685
or whatever. So what is it, mr. Petty? Petty, I might

1127
01:21:51,865 --> 01:21:55,695
say , not perry. Perry petty might called folks.

1128
01:21:56,045 --> 01:21:58,865
she called him petty. What'd you say? No. Anyway,

1129
01:22:00,465 --> 01:22:04,075
um, what does the county do? So it's

1130
01:22:04,515 --> 01:22:08,285
been a while since I've been there, . Um, but how it would work is obviously,

1131
01:22:09,025 --> 01:22:12,845
so what we would do with land use, um, is that the first meeting

1132
01:22:13,265 --> 01:22:17,125
of the month, they would consent item, request for advertise

1133
01:22:18,145 --> 01:22:21,725
all the items. And so they wouldn't even discuss them. However,

1134
01:22:22,585 --> 01:22:26,485
if there was something of substance, they would pull it from consent to discuss it.

1135
01:22:26,865 --> 01:22:29,635
and if they felt it would go to work session, they kicked to a work session. Otherwise

1136
01:22:30,985 --> 01:22:34,365
they'd request to advertise. It's authorized. And then

1137
01:22:35,215 --> 01:22:39,025
especially land use, like I said, it's already gone through planning commission. It's already had

1138
01:22:39,445 --> 01:22:42,955
a public hearing. You know, it's, and if it's, hopefully

1139
01:22:43,805 --> 01:22:47,805
planning commission has vetted it and they've work session them and discuss them.

1140
01:22:48,385 --> 01:22:52,125
by the time it gets to, um, counselor of the board, they would then authorize

1141
01:22:52,565 --> 01:22:55,805
the advertisement. They would go to the public hearing. If they,

1142
01:22:56,905 --> 01:23:00,785
and then they had the options, they would hear the public hearing and they would either vote. And

1143
01:23:01,005 --> 01:23:04,555
if you've watched a lot of the short term rentals, nobody shows up routine.

1144
01:23:05,545 --> 01:23:09,515
the more comprehensive ones. They've either kicked them to planning commission, they

1145
01:23:09,805 --> 01:23:13,385
have delayed them. And even, I believe it was the

1146
01:23:14,005 --> 01:23:17,925
linden sheets, they reconsidered that brought it back and devoted the other way.

1147
01:23:18,295 --> 01:23:22,205
right. I mean, they, but they authorized to advertise at the beginning, or at least when

1148
01:23:22,445 --> 01:23:26,165
I was there. I can double check. And then the end of the month, it is that first meeting

1149
01:23:26,885 --> 01:23:30,465
considered a meeting or a work session? It's a regular meeting. Okay. And

1150
01:23:30,965 --> 01:23:34,805
I, I have to have, did you have to go to work session 12 or one?

1151
01:23:35,185 --> 01:23:38,925
it is not, they, they will, they have in the past. So when I first started,

1152
01:23:39,205 --> 01:23:43,125
we didn't have work sessions. It was just two meetings, and then they added

1153
01:23:43,305 --> 01:23:47,165
the work sessions. Okay. And then they added more work sessions. Gotcha. But they,

1154
01:23:47,745 --> 01:23:51,445
uh, they had a work session in between that they would discuss bigger

1155
01:23:51,815 --> 01:23:55,165
items that they felt they needed to discuss. Okay. Larger rezonings

1156
01:23:56,185 --> 01:23:59,825
or other land use that where they've gotten lots of emails or comments, but

1157
01:24:00,915 --> 01:24:04,685
most of 'em, they were just . I don't wanna say routine,

1158
01:24:05,225 --> 01:24:09,005
but all right. Well, I'm get it's unfinished business and I'm gonna

1159
01:24:09,315 --> 01:24:12,635
move on. But I am gonna say this, I'm sure that people will

1160
01:24:13,385 --> 01:24:17,095
see in the press now that we discussed this, and maybe people will get input, maybe

1161
01:24:17,455 --> 01:24:21,445
other council members will get input. Yay, nay. And, and we can decide in the

1162
01:24:21,565 --> 01:24:25,315
future if we wanna bring it up again. So, all right. The next item is number four,

1163
01:24:25,825 --> 01:24:29,645
closed meeting. And I will entertain motion. I move the town council,

1164
01:24:30,285 --> 01:24:32,025
convene a closed meeting pursuant to 2 2 7 1 2 3 7 2

1165
01:24:35,905 --> 01:24:39,625
of the code of virginia for the following purpose. One, pursuant to section 2.2

1166
01:24:40,285 --> 01:24:44,245
dash 37 11, a eight of the code of virginia consultation with legal counsel,

1167
01:24:45,005 --> 01:24:48,525
employer retained by a public body regarding specific legal matters requiring

1168
01:24:49,125 --> 01:24:52,565
the provision of legal advice by such counsel. More specifically, a, the insolvency

1169
01:24:53,165 --> 01:24:57,125
and disposition of assets of the industrial development authority of the

1170
01:24:57,245 --> 01:25:01,205
town of front royal, and the county of warren, virginia. And b, the amendment to voluntary

1171
01:25:01,725 --> 01:25:05,325
settlement agreement between the county of warren, virginia and the town of front royal

1172
01:25:05,885 --> 01:25:09,675
virginia regarding the compromise for pilot meals and lodging taxes entered into

1173
01:25:09,965 --> 01:25:13,765
april 11th, 2008. Second admission, second roll

1174
01:25:14,165 --> 01:25:17,605
call council wood. Yes. Ice call? Yes. Council.

1175
01:25:18,995 --> 01:25:22,205
council. Yes. Council king brown. Yes. Counsel?

1176
01:25:23,625 --> 01:25:27,475
yes. Anyone need a restroom? Right. Okay.

1177
01:25:28,145 --> 01:25:28,365
if not.