1 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:08,240 I'm always glad when I don't have to say the pledge because I have like a panic 2 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:13,320 attack like you're in seventh grade and you like second grade and you forget the 3 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:13,320 pledge and you're like 4 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:22,240 » you look really really uneducated. >> We good? Okay, we'll go ahead and it's 7 5 00:00:19,279 --> 00:00:26,560 it's 7:01 so we'll go ahead and start. Uh we'd like to welcome everybody out to 6 00:00:25,039 --> 00:00:33,600 the Fruit Heights Planning Commission meeting today uh September 8th, 2026. 7 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:37,800 Uh we will start uh with a pledge of allegiance uh from Shelley. 8 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:48,879 » I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the 9 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:55,800 republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and 10 00:00:52,239 --> 00:00:55,800 justice for all. 11 00:00:56,330 --> 00:01:02,920 [clears throat] >> And we'll move forward with a roll call 12 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,920 from Haley. 13 00:01:06,799 --> 00:01:11,280 » Um, Commissioner Callum Bagley, >> Commissioner Shelley Bodley, 14 00:01:10,799 --> 00:01:13,520 » present. >> Commissioner Scott Justinson, 15 00:01:12,960 --> 00:01:16,880 » present. >> Commissioner Heidi Murdoch, 16 00:01:14,960 --> 00:01:19,119 » present. Chair Justin Wright >> here. 17 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:22,240 » Council member Mark Coachell >> here. 18 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:28,560 » Thank you. >> Okay, [clears throat] we'll uh open up 19 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:35,360 the floor to public comments. Uh just a reminder to please keep um please keep 20 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:39,680 uh comments to three minutes if possible. But if anybody would like to 21 00:01:38,159 --> 00:01:49,399 address the planning commission, you're welcome to stand uh at the podium and um 22 00:01:45,119 --> 00:01:49,399 and address the planning commission. 23 00:01:56,240 --> 00:02:03,520 And I actually just want to say I'm actually 24 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:11,319 excited because what we're talking about tonight 25 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:11,319 has come about joint effort from 26 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:17,760 commission and I think it's really great that we're 27 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:20,760 finally starting to find a way to work together. 28 00:02:41,599 --> 00:02:46,360 Any other any [clears throat] other comments? 29 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:50,840 Checking the make sure it's working. 30 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:56,280 » Those don't >> those are always 31 00:02:57,506 --> 00:03:03,360 [snorts] >> members of commission. Um council my 32 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:07,120 name is Don Hutchkins and I live over the Creek View subdivision. 33 00:03:05,519 --> 00:03:11,920 Uh I prepared a statement here really quick. [clears throat] As a resident I 34 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:15,920 believe that allowing DADUs provides a vital low impact solution to our 35 00:03:13,519 --> 00:03:21,087 regional housing challenges. Uh these offer a form of gentle density 36 00:03:18,959 --> 00:03:26,800 that allows families to stay together, [snorts] help seniors age in place, and 37 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:31,519 provide flexible housing options without uh changing the overall aesthetic of our 38 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:35,920 single family neighborhoods. To ensure these units blends blend 39 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:40,879 seamlessly into our community and do not create an unfair financial burden on 40 00:03:38,239 --> 00:03:45,599 current residents, I would strongly encourage the commission to focus on 41 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:50,720 clear objective development and fiscal criteria during tonight's review. 42 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:54,080 Specifically requesting that the ordinance include the following 43 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:59,760 frameworks. Number one, impact uh infrastructure 44 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:03,680 impact development fees. The ordinance should mandate appropriate and 45 00:04:01,439 --> 00:04:09,280 proportionate impact development fees with every DADU application. 46 00:04:06,879 --> 00:04:13,519 While these units utilize existing uh utility laterals, the incremental demand 47 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:19,680 they place on our city's overarching water, sewer, roads, and emergency 48 00:04:16,079 --> 00:04:23,759 services must be considered. uh implementing a scaled impact fee 49 00:04:21,840 --> 00:04:28,320 ensures that new development directly contributes to its fair share uh towards 50 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:32,880 maintaining and upgrading our municipal infrastructure. 51 00:04:29,919 --> 00:04:39,199 Second point uh proportional scale establishing reasonable size caps such 52 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:45,360 as a maximum of 8 to 8 800 to,200 square feet and height limits to ensure that 53 00:04:41,840 --> 00:04:50,080 they remain visually subordinate to the uh primary uh structure the primary home 54 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:55,600 on the property. Uh lastly, uh privacy mitigations and 55 00:04:52,880 --> 00:05:00,160 design harmony. Uh implementing through uh thoughtful side and rear setbacks 56 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:04,639 along strict requirements for complimentary architectural styles and 57 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:08,720 materials so that detached structures match the high standards of the primary 58 00:05:07,039 --> 00:05:12,720 residence. So basically, we don't want to be seeing a shoe box built in 59 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:17,919 somebody's backyard that looks hideous. Um by establishing these protective 60 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:22,400 proactive boundaries and fiscal protections, Fruit High City and its 61 00:05:20,639 --> 00:05:27,680 community can successfully comply with the state mandates, support its 62 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:31,600 residents, uh changing lifestyle needs, preserve both the neighborhood and charm 63 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:36,160 of the and financial health of our city, and of course providing more affordable 64 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:40,000 housing, which we desperately need in our communities. Uh thank you for your 65 00:05:38,479 --> 00:05:46,199 dedication to our [snorts] community and for considering my feedback. Thank you. 66 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:46,199 » Thank you, Don. 67 00:05:53,704 --> 00:05:55,724 [snorts] 68 00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:06,880 My name is Sam Padet. I live at 1027 uh South Oxford Circle. And I I just 69 00:06:04,639 --> 00:06:12,479 want some clarification. I'm I'm trying to understand some things in that. But 70 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:17,360 at the planning meeting on 8:25, while discussing the R3 zoning, both the 71 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:22,080 city planner, Mr. Oiler, and Commissioner Scott Justinson, 72 00:06:19,840 --> 00:06:27,440 made comments that they needed direction or better understanding from the city 73 00:06:23,919 --> 00:06:32,400 council as to how many units per acre the city is comfortable with, the city 74 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:38,560 council and the citizens. They suggested 8 to 10 or as high as 25 per acre. 75 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:45,759 Then uh last week at the city council meeting, David Hell inquired about uh 76 00:06:41,199 --> 00:06:51,440 what was going on with the uh ongoing resoning efforts of the two lots that 77 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:56,800 were brought before and uh Mayor Groberg explained at that time that the city 78 00:06:54,560 --> 00:07:01,680 council is waiting for recommendations from the planning commission. 79 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:09,520 uh Councilman Mark Kotrol was at the planning meeting and also at the uh city 80 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:16,800 council meeting and didn't say well the the c the planning commission is looking 81 00:07:12,319 --> 00:07:21,680 for direction or or anyway I just I'm just trying to figure out the flow of 82 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:27,840 information how information flows from you to the city council and back to you 83 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:31,280 and that and then also how it includes us as citizens. 84 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:38,800 so that we're informed and the input that we could have. Um my personal 85 00:07:33,919 --> 00:07:44,479 feelings are that uh the R3 the zoning the high density needs to match 86 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:49,759 neighboring areas. It shouldn't be so out of the ordinary. Uh we have two lots 87 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:54,000 that are less than one acre. One is just barely less. The other is 8/10en of an 88 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:59,280 acre and they're just trying to pack in way too much there. And what that does 89 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:06,000 is it sets a precedent throughout the city. Um, anybody could go in any any 90 00:08:04,319 --> 00:08:12,240 neighborhood and just say, "Hey, here's the way it is." So, we as citizens and 91 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:18,479 as you representing the citizens should have that in mind as to what the what 92 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:22,879 it's doing to the surrounding neighbors and not saying we don't care about them. 93 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:29,599 This person suggested this. And then also I think that the direction needs to 94 00:08:25,759 --> 00:08:35,039 come from the citizens their input and not the developers. 95 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:41,039 Um I I feel like yeah the developers can make a request but 96 00:08:38,399 --> 00:08:45,600 our first and foremost impact is upon the city and yeah these are on the south 97 00:08:43,519 --> 00:08:51,040 end but there's plenty of properties throughout the city that this could 98 00:08:47,279 --> 00:08:55,839 could impact everybody. And uh um I just I just counsel you. I just I 99 00:08:53,440 --> 00:09:00,399 just want you to be wise. I want you to take to heart what we say. We're we're 100 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:06,880 not here, you know, I'm I'm missing two other meetings tonight to be here to 101 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:11,920 voice my concern. And it's uh and it it is a concern and I think I speak for 102 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:16,720 yeah there's not as many here tonight as we've had in the past but but I know 103 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:21,200 from talking to a lot of people it's a huge concern and that right now is a 104 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:26,560 good time to develop trust amongst the m the neighbors and I I do thank you for 105 00:09:23,680 --> 00:09:30,320 your your willingness to serve and that I just ask you to serve right and do 106 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:35,720 what's right. Thank you. >> Thank you. 107 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:35,720 » Thank you Sam. [clears throat] Any 108 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,760 any other comments tonight? 109 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:54,080 Okay. Do we need a motion to close or we we got Okay. Okay. Uh we will go ahead 110 00:09:52,000 --> 00:10:00,080 and move on to um the planning commission of business 111 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:05,360 this evening then section 3.1 which is a discussion on detached accessory 112 00:10:02,560 --> 00:10:08,360 dwelling unit uh units ordinance title 10-11-25. 113 00:10:12,431 --> 00:10:18,000 [clears throat] >> Um before I start my comments I just 114 00:10:16,079 --> 00:10:23,600 want to address the gentleman's comments about the R3. This is good information 115 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:29,040 for everybody. So, both of the developers in these projects have gone 116 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:35,120 back to the drawing board and are working through whatever changes that 117 00:10:32,399 --> 00:10:41,440 they want to uh make to their projects and then they'll bring those back and 118 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:46,240 when we get those and um we'll bring that to the planning commission to have 119 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:50,560 further discussion about that. So, right now it's in their ball court. they're 120 00:10:48,560 --> 00:10:54,480 going back and they're looking at what could we do differently, what could we 121 00:10:52,560 --> 00:10:58,959 change, what how could we make this more palatable to the city, things of that 122 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:03,839 nature. So, that that that's kind of where that's at. That could be weeks, 123 00:11:01,519 --> 00:11:07,839 that could be months from now. We we don't know. Um we don't know when it'll 124 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:12,800 when it'll be back, but that's >> just to clarify. My understanding, which 125 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:17,440 could be totally wrong, was that the city council tabled it, so it goes back 126 00:11:15,839 --> 00:11:20,640 to them first and that they wanted to put in a development agreement with the 127 00:11:19,279 --> 00:11:24,240 developer. Like they were going back to the drawing table, coming back to the 128 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:28,240 city council saying, "What if it looks like this and make some type of 129 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:31,680 development agreement so they felt more comfortable with the reszone before it 130 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:34,240 ever came back to us?" Is that correct or incorrect? 131 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:38,320 » That that's ultimately the process. These these things we're talking about 132 00:11:36,079 --> 00:11:42,240 are administrative in nature and so they're really decisions of the planning 133 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,959 commission. So we want to get the planning commission's recommendation to 134 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:49,040 the council >> back before 135 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:53,040 these are the things that would be good to go into a development agreement. 136 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:56,800 » Yeah. Yeah. The planning commission is the one that tabled it. 137 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:59,920 » No, the city council tabled it. We approved it. They tabled it. So my 138 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:03,600 understanding was it was just going right back to them before we ever saw it 139 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:07,360 again. Well, it all went back just what Jeff's saying. All the developers are 140 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:10,079 coming back with another plan to present and it'll come back to the planning 141 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:13,279 commission >> first 142 00:12:10,639 --> 00:12:16,000 » before it goes back to untabd and approved res. 143 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:20,399 » Yeah. >> I didn't 144 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:27,120 just clarify. >> Okay. Um let's talk about um let's talk 145 00:12:24,639 --> 00:12:31,279 about the detached accessory dwelling units. Let 146 00:12:29,680 --> 00:12:37,360 me just kind of tell you how we got to where we're at tonight. So, the decision 147 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:40,959 was made last week to make a run at trying to put this ordinance together 148 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:47,360 before the end of this month, which is a heavy lift, but we're going to make a 149 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:53,760 run at it. So, um what you see before you is is still, you know, pretty rough 150 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:58,560 draft stuff, although I I'm pretty comfortable with where it's at. Um, this 151 00:12:56,639 --> 00:13:06,720 is how this has unfolded up to this point. The city attorney um put together 152 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:10,160 a framework to kind of work from. Darren made a bunch of comments to it and I 153 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:15,839 think that's what he sent out to the planning commission. I've worked on this 154 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:20,480 over the weekend and um cleaned up a lot of the language, taken things out that 155 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:25,440 didn't need to be in there, suggested other things to be put in. So, what you 156 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:31,839 have in front of you is the latest version of the draft, and I know you 157 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:36,560 haven't reviewed that yet. Um, and and so tonight, 158 00:13:33,839 --> 00:13:39,760 » Jeff being the one that's in our packet, >> the one that's on printed 159 00:13:38,399 --> 00:13:43,360 » right in front of you, printed >> just is like fresh, 160 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:46,160 » which we were sent it as well. We were just 161 00:13:44,639 --> 00:13:49,440 » Yeah, you may have been sent that. I didn't know 162 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:51,680 » it just wasn't redlined. So I was like yeah 163 00:13:49,839 --> 00:13:58,240 » trying to just >> That is a culmination of the attorneys. 164 00:13:54,880 --> 00:14:03,360 » Oh, can they make it bigger, Haley? >> Oh, is that okay? 165 00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:07,440 » I I think this is the one we have in front of us that we also have. 166 00:14:05,199 --> 00:14:13,680 » So this is an a culmination of the attorney's stuff, Darren's stuff, my 167 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:19,519 stuff. Um, now if any of you commented on Darren's initial draft, I haven't 168 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:24,720 seen any of that yet. So, we can talk about that tonight. Whatever your issues 169 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:33,680 or concerns are. Um, I [clears throat] it's also worth mentioning that um I 170 00:14:27,839 --> 00:14:42,639 received a a copy from uh or a draft copy from Jennif Jennifer Barkd Doll. Um 171 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:49,760 uh and I have incorporated most of that into this draft. So I I and and we can 172 00:14:46,959 --> 00:14:53,440 talk about the specifics of that, but um there was a lot of good information in 173 00:14:51,360 --> 00:15:01,760 there and and I would say most of that is is in this draft. So um 174 00:14:59,199 --> 00:15:07,920 so we can go through this thing line by line. We can talk about specifics about 175 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:14,399 what you want to talk about. Um, we can jump around. Um, I'm I'm okay to do go 176 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:18,639 whatever direction you want to go. >> One comment the general made that I had 177 00:15:16,399 --> 00:15:24,480 thought of is I didn't see anything there in there or maybe I just messed 178 00:15:21,519 --> 00:15:27,360 over it is about impact fees or >> it's in there. 179 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:30,560 » What part did it change from the last time I saw it? There wasn't like a 180 00:15:29,199 --> 00:15:31,920 number of percentage attached, was there? 181 00:15:31,199 --> 00:15:35,040 » I don't think it's >> I'm gonna I'm gonna ask Darren to talk 182 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:38,720 to that directly. >> It wasn't in there. There's nothing 183 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:43,680 there's nothing in here that would require an impact fee presently. So, if 184 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:45,920 that's something the city wants to consider, 185 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:51,279 » um, >> we would need to put that in there. I I 186 00:15:48,399 --> 00:15:55,199 think Darren's got some opinions about how impact fees would work in this case. 187 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:58,800 » Yeah. >> Yes. 188 00:15:56,079 --> 00:16:03,120 » Like there's billing of it, but I like on a new construction or someone's 189 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:08,639 converting because you still have to send an inspector out there. Correct. I 190 00:16:05,759 --> 00:16:13,440 mean, how right like there's still a fee to the city that needs to be collected 191 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:17,120 if if it's taking city time, but there wasn't like a number I saw or 192 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:20,240 » so yeah that you'd have to have a building permit and go through the 193 00:16:18,399 --> 00:16:22,320 process send in a site plan >> and that's just percentage of square 194 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:26,560 footage >> and then then it goes by a percentage on 195 00:16:24,399 --> 00:16:29,680 that and it also goes through you know how many in here because it requires a 196 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:32,639 building permit. So >> yeah, it'll just fall under building 197 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:36,720 permit. The other part of that, it has to meet all the international fire 198 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:40,399 codes. Um, so it's got to be so close to a fire hydrant, there has to be a 199 00:16:38,399 --> 00:16:43,920 certain width to be able to get to the unit. Um, just some different things 200 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:47,360 that fall into that >> that are 201 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:49,360 » kind of included in this, but it's there spots. 202 00:16:47,759 --> 00:16:52,720 » Okay. It doesn't have to be because it because they have to have a building 203 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:55,199 permit, it has to meet all of that. >> Yes. Okay. 204 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:59,120 » So, Darren, would an impact fee be charged on 205 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:03,440 » What about an existing conversion >> for this? right now. Uh I didn't have an 206 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:08,480 impact fee in there. I've kind of looked at that a little bit. Um and haven't 207 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:12,959 found where it's connecting into the same connection um is what we've 208 00:17:11,120 --> 00:17:16,959 required it. It would hook into the same house connection and hook into that. Um 209 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:20,319 » but are there still inspectors that going to go up right like 210 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:22,880 » Yeah, that would be part of the city building inspections is they're going to 211 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,720 have to go look and make sure it's connected to 212 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:27,760 » if it's already built and they're converting [clears throat] a garage. 213 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:30,720 Where does that fall? And do we need something for that? 214 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:33,280 » Yeah. on. Yeah, if they're doing that conversion, you're still going to have 215 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:37,360 the same thing, but it's going to be connecting into the same utility that 216 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:40,160 the house is currently connected to. >> So, it makes it a little more 217 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:45,840 challenging to say it's a new connection or it's a 218 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:49,840 » in increased impact. Um, >> part of that is is I've done a little 219 00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:55,039 bit of research and there's a section in here that's talking about um just the 220 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:59,280 utilities. Um, different different cities and stuff like that will charge 221 00:17:56,799 --> 00:18:07,280 for each unit. Um we do the same thing with um apartments. Uh if there's 20 222 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:12,240 units, we charge 20 base rates for those units. Um we would end up be doing the 223 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:17,280 same proposal in this draft as there's the 224 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:22,640 main unit, the house, and the second unit is the detached dwelling. Um so 225 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:27,440 we'd be charging for that detached dwelling as a base rate for the 226 00:18:25,039 --> 00:18:32,799 utilities because of once again like he said, you do have increased traffic. You 227 00:18:29,120 --> 00:18:38,480 have do have um a lot more going into the the maintenance of both the sewer, 228 00:18:35,039 --> 00:18:42,320 the roads, the the water. Um and so part of that would be helping collect those 229 00:18:40,559 --> 00:18:48,640 fees to cover those costs. >> But on a building, sorry, maybe on the 230 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:52,640 garage conversion, someone still has has to get a building permit, pay whatever 231 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:55,039 fees you're associated with that. So, those are all kind of 232 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:59,840 » So, yeah, if if I I just pulled up the building fee schedule for the city. Um, 233 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:04,720 so the building fee schedule does include a parks and trail impact fee of 234 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:08,640 uh $1,115. And then there's sewer district 235 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:11,919 guarantee fee, application fee, storm water management fee. 236 00:19:09,919 --> 00:19:15,280 » Well, well, some of those impact fees won't wouldn't be going to these um 237 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:18,160 » just >> but they would follow it would follow 238 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:22,559 the same fee schedule as any other. Yeah, it follows the same fee schedule 239 00:19:19,679 --> 00:19:26,880 as far as inspections, square footage, >> uh those square footage, 240 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:31,679 » but as far as impact fees, it wouldn't necessarily cover have those in there. 241 00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:36,640 » Um I did talk with Central Davis Sewer District. Um once again about this same 242 00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:41,600 issue because they could connect they charge an impact fee for all theirs. Um 243 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:46,480 they said if it's an independently connected that they would require an 244 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:51,360 impact fee, but if it's tying into the same as the home, it's they wouldn't 245 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:56,160 because it's not tying into their main trunk line. So there's a there is a 246 00:19:55,120 --> 00:19:58,240 little bit of confusion. >> Has to be determined if they have 247 00:19:57,360 --> 00:20:01,679 sufficient >> Yeah. Well, yeah. And that's that's 248 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:05,039 another thing. Yeah. That you're you're always looking at. 249 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:08,160 » Yeah. >> And all of that's in here. 250 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:11,679 » Yes. Yeah. Yeah. No, I know all that's in there. I just specific numbers, but 251 00:20:10,559 --> 00:20:16,240 as long as that's all covered in building permits, it's covered. 252 00:20:13,919 --> 00:20:20,080 » Yeah, it's great. >> I Does anyone have any concerns if we 253 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:25,280 just go line by line? I think that might be the fastest way to do it. 254 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:31,039 » Sorry, I hijacked a line by line. >> Okay. 255 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:35,919 » Um, so let let me just read this and then we'll we'll kind of stop after each 256 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:40,480 section. Um, the purpose of this chapter is to establish standards for detached 257 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:44,559 accessory dwelling units consistent with the applicable Utah law and provide 258 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:49,679 reasonable opportunities for additional residential housing while protecting 259 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:54,240 public health and safety, existing neighborhoods, property rights, public 260 00:20:51,440 --> 00:21:01,120 utilities, and municipal infrastructure. So under the definitions, we've got um 261 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:05,200 accessory dwelling unit or ADU means a residential dwelling unit that is 262 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:09,919 accessory to a single family dwelling and provides complete independent living 263 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:13,840 facilities for one or more persons including permanent provisions for 264 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:19,520 living, sleeping, eating, cooking and sanitation. 265 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:24,960 Um those that is defining what's already in code. Uh detached accessory dwelling 266 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:28,400 unit means accessory dwelling unit located in a building or structure that 267 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:34,400 is physically detached from the single family dwelling located on the same lot 268 00:21:30,799 --> 00:21:38,799 or parcel. Owner means a person holding legal or equitable title to a lot or 269 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:43,919 parcel upon which the single family dwelling or DADU are located. Primary 270 00:21:41,919 --> 00:21:48,240 dwelling or single family dwelling means the detached single family dwelling 271 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:54,000 located on the same lot or parcel as the DADU. Lot or parcel means a legally 272 00:21:52,240 --> 00:22:00,000 established lot or parcel of real property and fire code means currently 273 00:21:56,799 --> 00:22:03,760 adopted international fire code. Um terms not specifically defined in this 274 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:09,039 chapter shall have the meanings established elsewhere in this title or 275 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:13,760 under applicable state law. So those are just the definitions. Pretty 276 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:24,799 straightforward. Um any any questions there? Okay. Um so uh part C is D A use 277 00:22:21,039 --> 00:22:29,120 as a permitted use. Um a detached accessory dwelling unit shall be 278 00:22:26,559 --> 00:22:35,919 permitted on a lot or parcel when the lot or parcel contains at least 11,000 279 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:40,080 square feet. So zoning is irrelevant. If you have 11,000 square feet, you can 280 00:22:38,159 --> 00:22:44,720 have one of these on your lot. If you don't, you can't. That that's what that 281 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:47,520 says. Pretty straightforward. Just to clarify that because I know there were 282 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:51,039 some emails back and forth on that. That is the requirement per the state is 283 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:58,000 11,000 >> feet. It um we have to include it um at 284 00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:02,320 least on >> we couldn't we couldn't smaller. We 285 00:23:00,159 --> 00:23:07,280 could go smaller, but you have to have it at least on 11,000 or bigger. 286 00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:08,960 » Yeah. We couldn't set it at 12,000. No, >> we could go nine. 287 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:13,440 » Yes. >> Yeah. Okay. Just wanted to clarify that. 288 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:19,679 We propose to do it just what the state law is, 11,000. Just make that the the 289 00:23:16,799 --> 00:23:24,159 that that's the most offendable. Um 290 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:29,280 the lot or parcel contains a legally established single family dwelling. So 291 00:23:26,559 --> 00:23:33,280 you can't build the DADU first. You have to already have a primary dwelling on 292 00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:40,159 the property or build them at the same time. Um uh a single family dwelling is 293 00:23:37,120 --> 00:23:46,000 permit is a permitted use uh within the applicable zoning district. Um that 294 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:50,559 would be any zoning district. Um the DADU satisfies the requirements of 295 00:23:48,799 --> 00:23:55,280 this chapter and all other applicable provisions of federal, state, and local 296 00:23:52,159 --> 00:23:58,720 law. And the owner obtains all required administrative approvals, building 297 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:01,960 permits, and other permits required by the city. 298 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:10,159 A D ADU meeting the requirements of this chapter shall be reviewed 299 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:16,080 administratively as a permitted use and shall not require a conditional use 300 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:21,600 permit when located within uh a primary residential zone. So that means it's 301 00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:28,080 they're they're approved by staff. It doesn't come to the planning commission, 302 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:35,279 doesn't come to the city council. Um okay, any questions about that section? 303 00:24:32,159 --> 00:24:39,520 Okay. Um, general development standards. So, a DADU shall comply with the 304 00:24:37,279 --> 00:24:43,360 following standards. No more than one accessory dwelling unit, whether 305 00:24:41,039 --> 00:24:48,159 attached, internal, or detached, shall be permitted on a lot or partial. So, 306 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:52,320 you can have either or, but not both. You can have an internal or an external, 307 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:55,279 but not both of them. >> Um, 308 00:24:52,960 --> 00:25:02,880 » can I can we just Sure. just briefly um just for um Darren sent a forwarded an 309 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:10,720 email that Darren had received from um uh a member of the the public um that 310 00:25:06,159 --> 00:25:16,799 asked the question why um why can't we have a uh internal and an external on 311 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:20,559 the property? What would be the negative downside to that? And so just because we 312 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:24,400 had gotten that question, I think it would be respectful to have that 313 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:30,960 conversation. There's a section in here that we implied occupancy on here. So, 314 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:34,799 » yeah, we do. Uh, are you saying that it has to be occupied? 315 00:25:32,559 --> 00:25:38,880 » Yeah. But I guess the question >> No, I'm just saying there there's 316 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:43,760 there's another section in here that one of the updated ones as well. 317 00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:48,640 » Okay. I have not se read through this yet this version that we just got today. 318 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:54,320 I I think the best way to answer that is that um 319 00:25:51,600 --> 00:26:00,320 try and lessen the impact on the neighborhood, the existing zoning. Um 320 00:25:57,039 --> 00:26:05,279 you've got you you would have a lot of parking issues with that. There there 321 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:08,640 there could be other things. Utilities are [clears throat] going to be a 322 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:13,840 concern. Um the vast majority of cities have it this 323 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:19,520 way. This is pretty much standard language across the board. They don't 324 00:26:16,799 --> 00:26:25,679 allow there. There's probably a few exceptions to that, but this is pretty 325 00:26:22,159 --> 00:26:31,360 much how everybody else is doing it. Um, and there's uh cities that have a lot 326 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:36,000 more experience in this than we do. Um, I would say generally that's those are 327 00:26:33,919 --> 00:26:40,640 the main things. Jeff had one question on that on D. What 328 00:26:38,799 --> 00:26:44,240 is the city standard right now? If somebody wanted to build a detached 329 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:48,799 garage, how close to the prop one can they get? 330 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:55,200 » How close? >> Not not an EAD. If it's a if somebody 331 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:58,080 were building a shed or detached garage, how close? Because it typically we could 332 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:01,200 go closer than >> they can get within three feet for a 333 00:27:00,159 --> 00:27:03,919 detached building. >> So 334 00:27:01,679 --> 00:27:07,520 » if it's a shed or whatever this we're proposing. So, how's that going to work 335 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:11,120 if they're converting and it's 3 ft away in the laws? 336 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:15,039 » I'm questioning whether we need to keep the 10 ft if we allow other buildings 337 00:27:12,799 --> 00:27:18,720 that are closer than 10 ft. >> Yeah, that was my question as that was 338 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:21,679 one of the comments or questions I had as well 339 00:27:19,120 --> 00:27:26,480 » because even an 11,000 foot lot is not a big lot. And um and I'll bring this up 340 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:31,919 to in another section here. If somebody were to put an EADU out back and they 341 00:27:29,279 --> 00:27:35,440 don't have a lot of space as it is in order to bring 10 feet away from the 342 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:40,880 fence and you've got 10 feet between them and a fence or a property line that 343 00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:44,240 basically is is not really usable. So why can't we kind of follow the standard 344 00:27:42,799 --> 00:27:49,360 as if they were doing a separate detached garage or something and it's 345 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:54,320 not that or it's a combination and we'll get into that on height requirement in a 346 00:27:51,200 --> 00:28:00,480 minute. I have a suggestion on that. Um, so I'm I'm questioning the 10 foot. 347 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:02,240 » Okay. Um, let's >> You want to talk about answer that one 348 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,760 just for a minute? >> You want to talk about that in a minute 349 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:10,720 when we get there? [clears throat] >> So, I I I've really looked at the the 350 00:28:09,039 --> 00:28:16,000 setbacks on this. I've listened to the city council. I've listened to residents 351 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:21,279 about setbacks for um dwellings being so close to the fence um on bigger 352 00:28:18,559 --> 00:28:27,440 projects. Uh, I talked with the fire department and just trying to get the 353 00:28:23,919 --> 00:28:33,760 fire marshall's recommendation um of how far to stay away from it. Um, 354 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:39,440 he says, you know, you start getting within the 355 00:28:35,679 --> 00:28:43,200 6T 7T range, if one of those units catch on fire, 356 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:49,039 it will most likely jump to the other unit. Um, so a little bit better spacing 357 00:28:45,679 --> 00:28:53,520 is a lot better. I also looked at um some of the others as far as um being 358 00:28:52,399 --> 00:28:58,320 able to get around it for fire protection. Once again, if you're so 359 00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:03,039 tight to a fence, you cannot get around it for medical or farming or or fire um 360 00:29:01,279 --> 00:29:06,399 and where somebody's living in that unit. 361 00:29:03,919 --> 00:29:11,360 » Um depending on where they put the door, depending on where they have those 362 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:16,799 things, it creates a lot of unanswered that we don't know um because we don't 363 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:23,200 have them. But looking at a bigger picture of fire safety, medical safety, 364 00:29:20,159 --> 00:29:27,760 um it's already uh you know, talking about the internal ones now and making 365 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:30,559 sure the access is there to be able to get around to the back of the yard 366 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:35,520 because where some of these houses are only 8 ft off and you have a car parked 367 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:41,279 there, you you can't squeeze through there. Um so there there's a lot of 368 00:29:38,159 --> 00:29:46,320 things to that and I think as you get closer also the impact on your neighbor. 369 00:29:44,159 --> 00:29:51,200 Um, and that's another thing that's been talked about is the impact on the 370 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:54,480 neighbor where somebody's living now in the backyard that when they purchased 371 00:29:53,039 --> 00:29:59,919 their home, nobody was living in the backyard and now you're going to put a 372 00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:04,000 home that's within 3 ft of the fence. So, I think there's a lot that that's 373 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:10,960 been looked at at that to making sure that once again a part homeowner has the 374 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:15,760 right on his property to do something, but also the neighbor that purchased 375 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:22,000 their property still has rights of what they purchased their property for, too. 376 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:26,960 So, that's my my look at it. Um, it's varied in a lot of the different 377 00:30:23,279 --> 00:30:31,760 ordinances I looked at. Um, I' I've I've honestly I've really looked 378 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:38,000 at it. I've seen it from eight feet to 15 feet and and so it's just kind of 379 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:40,320 well here's a number. I I think it's a number we can start with. 380 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,840 » Okay. >> But I do think you need to be farther 381 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,840 than a three-foot from your neighbor's yard. 382 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:50,960 » Well, and let me give you a little bit of my uh um thought on that is you get 383 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:56,559 all the the developments are put in PRUDs. Uh for instance, over to Orchard 384 00:30:53,679 --> 00:31:01,520 Ridge um the development there that have basically retirement homes. they have a 385 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:06,640 five and five which they're that close or they have um the two or three story 386 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:11,039 town homes they they have zero lot lines so the fire danger is the capacity to 387 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:15,520 jump from one building to the next but we're those are being put everywhere so 388 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:20,080 I'm just wondering if we're trying to as what I'm hearing the citizens are saying 389 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:24,640 this is a great possible solution partially to uh affordable housing if we 390 00:31:22,799 --> 00:31:28,320 make so many restrictions based on what we're used to we're not going to get 391 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:31,840 there so I'm Just wanting to open that up, say is it does it need to be 10? Can 392 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:36,000 it be closer? >> Could we also argue that if you want to 393 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:39,279 be five feet, you know, at the property, five feet off the property line, they 394 00:31:37,279 --> 00:31:44,080 could rate their sophets and increase the fire rating on that side where 395 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:47,679 they're adjacent to the property. >> And Shelley, that was going to be my 396 00:31:45,679 --> 00:31:52,559 other comment is that there's a difference between 397 00:31:50,559 --> 00:31:58,159 » um a nonhabitable shed or garage and a habitable space. um 398 00:31:56,159 --> 00:32:04,159 it throws you into a whole new category in the building code and the IBC codes 399 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:08,960 about what you can and can't do. There's fire rated walls and all those things 400 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:14,080 have got to come into consideration and I'm pretty sure that the it it's you're 401 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:18,320 not going to get past anything. It's a minimum of five feet. 402 00:32:16,159 --> 00:32:24,720 » Um I don't think we're going to get below that. But um I I mean this is all 403 00:32:22,399 --> 00:32:28,960 things that you know we can consider and talk about. Um we just proposed 10 feet 404 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,480 as a as a >> as a baseline. 405 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:35,600 » As a baseline. >> I don't have an issue with 10 feet. I 406 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:38,640 mean I I don't you your lot either works or not. It's like the chicken thing. You 407 00:32:37,039 --> 00:32:44,640 bought a house and your lot either works for chickens and I mean it just is what 408 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:50,000 it is and it's not I don't think it's I mean where how what do we change the 409 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:53,679 pool ordinance to? Seven, eight, >> five. 410 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:57,760 » That's still really like that's still probably less than I was comfortable 411 00:32:55,200 --> 00:33:03,039 with. Like that's close to a neighbor. So a home where they could be renting it 412 00:33:00,399 --> 00:33:06,640 and there's children and like these are in fully established neighborhoods. 413 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:11,360 We're not talking mixeduse, commercial, any of that. Like this isn't your next 414 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:16,000 door neighbor. It either works or it doesn't. And it like it is what it is. 415 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:19,120 That's kind of where I'm at. Like if you have a big lot and it works great. And 416 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:25,039 if it doesn't and you don't meet all these requirements and it doesn't work 417 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:28,880 and you it doesn't work. So that's my thought. I I would say 10 is what I'm 418 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:32,799 comfortable with. >> Well well on this it also says that the 419 00:33:31,039 --> 00:33:37,200 maximum square footage that they're proposing is 1,200 square feet on one 420 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:40,159 level. I doubt very many of these EADUs are going to be that big. 421 00:33:38,559 --> 00:33:43,440 » Yeah. No. >> So, there's just not room 422 00:33:42,399 --> 00:33:46,240 » or it has to be >> or a need 423 00:33:44,559 --> 00:33:49,360 » um for that big. If you're going to have several kids in multiple bedrooms, you 424 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:55,440 know, you're probably going to be looking for a single family house. These 425 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:59,360 are in between or help somebody out uh type of structures. So, I think we need 426 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:05,120 to keep that in mind as well. >> I I I I think I tend to agree with Scott 427 00:34:02,159 --> 00:34:10,159 on size and and how close the lot lines. I mean, if you can have a uh if you can 428 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:14,879 have a shed, right? Why can't you have a >> because a shed doesn't humans, 429 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:17,839 » which is agreeable. And the three feet I think is too close, but I think there's 430 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,480 somewhere in between. >> But, you know, you could have 431 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:24,960 theoretically you could have an I don't know, you could have a indoor basketball 432 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:29,119 court right now currently that has humans in it during the day. It's 433 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:32,879 closer. You know, you could have a >> sleeping over. I mean, it's just a 434 00:34:30,639 --> 00:34:37,119 different having a a kitchen and a bathroom and people living there is 435 00:34:35,359 --> 00:34:41,359 nothing close to anything we've ever had in the city before. I mean, I don't it's 436 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:45,919 just not to me it's it's not the same. And I wouldn't want to 437 00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:50,720 have a firefighter not be able to get somewhere or to a window to break it out 438 00:34:48,079 --> 00:34:55,359 to get a child out because we chose to put it close to make someone it work for 439 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:58,079 like it works or it doesn't. That's kind of where I'm at with this is it's a 440 00:34:56,720 --> 00:35:04,400 state requirement. It's great. I think it's a great way income housing. I think 441 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:07,440 it's great option. If it works, but like if it works, it works. And if it 442 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:12,079 doesn't, it doesn't. And I think we as a city should make some strict codes 443 00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:16,720 because there's humans living it here. It's not my car or my boat, which is 444 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:21,920 fine if it burns to the ground. That's where I'm at. 445 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:27,040 » I I'll just note for um R16 and R18, it's currently 8 feet to the property 446 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:31,599 line. So, just keeping that in mind. >> Yeah. So, I I think we 10 ft is a good 447 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:35,440 baseline, but I think we can tighten that a little bit. It'll the safety 448 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:39,280 factor won't go away. The other question I had Jeff, excuse me, [clears throat] 449 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:44,240 and I had sent an email to Darren on this on no higher than 18 ft and I was 450 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:49,680 looking at the different cities on there and uh the feedback had been it for 451 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:54,320 people to do a detached garage to do an EAD above the garage and the concern was 452 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:58,160 the height and looking to neighbors and that kind of thing. But we can also 453 00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:03,280 limit the type of construction. If you put a garage, a 10- foot garage with a 454 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:08,800 either an eight or 10 12 pitch roof and then just do what fits above there. It's 455 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:12,720 like a studio, which would seem to take care of the issue and it wouldn't it 456 00:36:11,119 --> 00:36:17,599 would give people with on the smaller side 11,000 square feet on their lot and 457 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:21,760 their home is more substantial. It would still give them room to accomplish 458 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:25,040 something. So I, you know, I think the intent of the ordinance that we're 459 00:36:23,119 --> 00:36:30,079 trying to come up with is to help people and not to increase more restrictions, 460 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:35,359 is to come up with a plan that is as workable for people that don't have the 461 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:39,200 great big estates. >> So are you saying that you would like to 462 00:36:38,240 --> 00:36:42,640 see that? >> I I would like to see that be a little a 463 00:36:41,119 --> 00:36:46,720 little bit taller. If you figure out if you've got a 10-ft garage and you've got 464 00:36:45,359 --> 00:36:50,160 either an eight or nine foot door, so your your garage is going to be 10 feet 465 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:55,599 and if you have a 10 12 pitch roof on that and it's a 24 foot wide, you know, 466 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:59,440 if you put another 10 or 12 feet, so maybe 20 feet becomes the maximum and 467 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:02,880 you can still fit an ADU and just have a steeper roof and it has dormers or a 468 00:37:01,119 --> 00:37:07,599 shed roof out of it and not a full twotory, which would be aesthetically 469 00:37:06,079 --> 00:37:11,040 pleasing to look at and it wouldn't be create this tall structure that the 470 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:16,160 neighbors are looking at in the back. I I think along those lines, what I'm 471 00:37:13,599 --> 00:37:22,720 questioning is um our accessory dwelling unit or our accessory building code 472 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:27,200 allows for 35 ft. Um why why are we saying somebody could put a 35 foot 473 00:37:24,240 --> 00:37:32,160 garage, but they couldn't put a 35 foot detached ADU? 474 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:39,920 » Well, I can tell you again, this is the baseline. This is what it says in here 475 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:46,320 is that single story, no no twotory. I think that's essentially in an effort to 476 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:56,560 again um be cognizant of neighbor impact on neighbors. Um singlestory 477 00:37:49,599 --> 00:37:58,880 uh 16 16 foot uh uh roof line and um what was the other point I was going to 478 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,920 make? >> Not 18. 479 00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:05,079 » Um >> right here. 480 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:14,240 » Oh, I know what it was. um that these units 481 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:16,640 do not in any way you cannot have a unit that's taller than the primary dwelling. 482 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,440 » Yeah. >> Yeah. 483 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:22,560 » Um they they they need to be they need to be accessory to the primary 484 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:26,560 structure. Yeah. >> If if the if the primary structure's got 485 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:30,000 a 10ft roof on it, these things ought to have a 10ft roof on them. 486 00:38:28,079 --> 00:38:33,040 » They should not be bigger than >> I agree. 487 00:38:30,720 --> 00:38:38,400 » And and and and it says that in here. So, I think that one's pretty darn 488 00:38:35,119 --> 00:38:41,200 important is that they need to be in the background, not in the forefront. 489 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,280 » Yeah, >> I agree. 490 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:49,119 » So, >> I mean, 16 that seems sure. I don't know 491 00:38:47,119 --> 00:38:52,079 if anyone will notice if it's 18 or 20 as long as it's shorter than the 492 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:55,040 existing home. And in the back, I don't know if it's a huge 493 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:59,119 » deal. I just wonder the roof. >> I mean, if you got a flat roof on, you 494 00:38:56,640 --> 00:39:01,920 can put a twotory building in 20 feet if it's got a flat roof on it. I believe it 495 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:05,200 also said >> single story. 496 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:10,400 » I believe it also said and I I don't remember the exact terminology but that 497 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:15,920 it had to be in similar um design as >> I have a pretty steep pitch roof. So my 498 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:23,200 detached garage matched my home which is a a deeper but it's it could still be 499 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:30,400 single story, right? I don't know. So, um, what would you like us to do to 500 00:39:28,079 --> 00:39:36,320 research that piece of it? >> I'm of the opinion that 501 00:39:33,359 --> 00:39:42,560 if somebody wants to do a detached garage and accomplish an EADU at the 502 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:48,079 same time, we should consider that. I mean, that's allowed by law, 503 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:51,280 » but I I mean, this would >> this would be 504 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:56,640 » the way this is written, their detached garage would have to be 505 00:39:54,079 --> 00:40:00,400 » 16 feet or less at the at the peak of the roof. 506 00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:04,480 » Yeah. So, the height would not work, you know, in a, 507 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:09,359 for lack of a better term, an attic space of a garage is 16 or 18 feet. Mine 508 00:40:07,839 --> 00:40:10,560 says 18. What does yours say? >> Mine says 16. 509 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:15,040 » 16. >> 16. It did say 18 until this 510 00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:17,280 » the one switch from 18 gave me today. This one 511 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:21,359 » the one that's up here. What does it say? Because I think we're looking at 512 00:40:19,599 --> 00:40:23,119 » the new one. The new one that we proposed is 16. 513 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,440 » 16. >> Okay. Mine says 18. 514 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:29,760 » Yeah. >> So Darren was 16 or 18 wouldn't be tall. 515 00:40:28,079 --> 00:40:34,079 » Darren's was 18. >> But if it had a 10 12 pitch roof, let's 516 00:40:31,839 --> 00:40:36,560 say the building was 10 feet. The building is only 10 feet. But then the 517 00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:42,480 roof >> Yeah, it might be it might not work. 518 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:46,400 I mean 35 is too tall, >> but if you're going to accommodate that, 519 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:52,000 » I mean, you're essentially saying we're going to accommodate twostory buildings. 520 00:40:49,359 --> 00:40:57,040 » Well, if we go the way we're doing, somebody could theoretically do the 521 00:40:53,920 --> 00:41:00,880 garage and do the ADU over in this corner. To me, to me, that's a bigger 522 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:04,800 impact on the neighborhood than one building and accomplishing both. 523 00:41:03,359 --> 00:41:07,520 » Now, you're saying, say that again. They could do 524 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:12,240 » if if somebody wanted to do a detached garage in their backyard with access to 525 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:16,960 it, they could theoretically do also a detached EADU back there as well. So you 526 00:41:15,359 --> 00:41:19,359 now have two out buildings that are separate from the main dwelling. 527 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:25,680 » I see what you're saying. >> So we accomplish the same, you know, two 528 00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:28,160 goals with one building if we consider a combination. 529 00:41:26,319 --> 00:41:33,200 » Yeah. If they had enough room to do it. >> I mean, it could only take 50% of their 530 00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:36,640 rear yard. So they'd have to have a yard >> because I've seen many of these and 531 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:39,599 they're very attractive to kind of accomplish what people are looking for. 532 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:42,240 » I mean, are you thinking like the barnaminium things? Is that what's in 533 00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:46,319 your head? >> Oh, just think of a regular garage with 534 00:41:44,240 --> 00:41:49,520 a steep pitch roof. It has dormers or it has windows in the gable 535 00:41:47,599 --> 00:41:53,280 » and then living spaces above the garage. Is that what you're Yeah. Like 536 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:55,280 barnominiums. That's like a >> You can Yeah, you can call it what you 537 00:41:54,720 --> 00:41:59,359 would like. >> They call them barniums. 538 00:41:57,359 --> 00:42:02,079 » Yeah. But just just an apartment above a garage. 539 00:41:59,839 --> 00:42:07,760 » Yeah. Yeah, just it's more like a studio above a garage. 540 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:10,480 » I I I mean, personally, I I don't have an issue with that either. 541 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:14,160 » I think you'd have to like have a whole different section for that and someone 542 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:18,960 would have to be on like a much much much larger lot. 543 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:22,560 » I I I disagree, but um >> I mean, can I can I just theoretically 544 00:42:20,720 --> 00:42:26,880 Right. So, if somebody had an internal if somebody wanted to um I I know we're 545 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:31,920 talking about twotory units. If somebody wanted to um add on to their current 546 00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:37,359 home, let's say they they have an existing two-story home, they wanted to 547 00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:42,240 add on a two-story addition to it and turn it into a twotory ADU. 548 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,240 » They could do that. >> There would be nothing restricting that 549 00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:47,680 they could do. >> So my question is what's what's the 550 00:42:45,839 --> 00:42:52,240 difference? What's the difference of six feet or 10 feet, right? Like 551 00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:56,400 » like if it's physically attached to the structure, right? they because I I think 552 00:42:54,720 --> 00:43:01,200 the I think it could look I think it could present very well in the 553 00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:07,200 neighborhood and there is a a note here that it has to um fit with the existing 554 00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:11,839 structure. So what what's the concern if it's 555 00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:17,599 physically attached or not? >> All all I can tell you Justin is that in 556 00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:24,560 talking to other cities there is a difference 557 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:29,839 between having the impact of the ADU in your own 558 00:43:27,359 --> 00:43:35,200 home and putting it in your backyard, which is largely seen as a bigger impact 559 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:39,920 to your neighbors than it is to you. That that that's I think that's the best 560 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:46,319 way to describe it in my conversations with others that are dealing with these 561 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:50,720 same things is is there there's most cities see a difference there. Yeah, 562 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:55,200 » there's a difference between having that inside your house, that impact is yours, 563 00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:58,400 and putting it in your backyard, which is now impacting your neighbors. 564 00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:03,040 » And that's fair. Yeah. >> And Jeff, don't you think though that 565 00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:08,000 because this is a relatively newly discussed subject in our state to even 566 00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:11,599 be doing these that that we don't have a track history really with anybody, 567 00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:15,680 » not a large one. >> Everybody's kind of shooting from the 568 00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:20,480 hip and coming up with their the rules and ordinances for their particular 569 00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:25,440 city. So I think it would behoove us to keep an open mind and say if we do it 570 00:44:23,119 --> 00:44:28,720 different from them that's okay >> but have the discussion so we get it 571 00:44:27,359 --> 00:44:32,240 right right now. >> I think we do. I think we do. And again 572 00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:38,160 I just was skimming through the new version we just got. But I it said 573 00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:42,400 something in here about um uh glass you know would need to be obscured um 574 00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:46,800 towards the side and rear property lines. And so I I do appreciate that we 575 00:44:45,119 --> 00:44:52,079 are mi trying to mitigate it looks like some of that um impact on on the 576 00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:56,880 neighbors as well. >> And we may want to consider this as well 577 00:44:54,319 --> 00:45:01,359 is like a swimming pool ordinance. I've had several pools in my lifetime and it 578 00:44:59,119 --> 00:45:06,560 depends on the city that there has to be a requirement x amount of feet from your 579 00:45:03,599 --> 00:45:10,079 neighbor's occupied dwelling. So, if you're going to put a pool within two 580 00:45:08,319 --> 00:45:14,480 feet of your fence line, but your neighbor's house is 10 feet off of 581 00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:18,960 there, you can't do that. You have to have a minimum distance away from 582 00:45:17,599 --> 00:45:22,079 » the structure. So, there may be something like that we may want to look 583 00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:28,560 at. >> Okay. So, I've made a note about talking 584 00:45:24,319 --> 00:45:31,280 about taller structures and setbacks. >> Um, 585 00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:35,280 » we're just like discussing tonight for meeting, correct? 586 00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:38,160 » Right. Can I also I think that going back to that the comment you were 587 00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:42,720 talking about where why can't we have an internal and detach a datadu right would 588 00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:46,480 when you have both of those things it becomes a multif family lot 589 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:49,119 » which is a totally different thing >> zone 590 00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:53,200 » exactly so I think in my mind that's to clarify that's what it is it becomes a 591 00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:57,440 multif family unit more so than just a residential unit with a dad or an ADU on 592 00:45:55,440 --> 00:46:01,680 it >> I agree 593 00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:05,520 » okay let me let me keep going um um an ADU shall not be located within in a 594 00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:09,760 public utility easement or other recorded easement and unless the terms 595 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:14,480 of the easement expressly permit the structure and use and all persons having 596 00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:19,359 rights under the easement have provided any consent required by law. Um that 597 00:46:17,119 --> 00:46:24,560 that's important. You don't want to be building these permanent structures on 598 00:46:21,119 --> 00:46:30,160 easements. And I think that further says why an incre a setback is important 599 00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:33,599 because most of these utility easements are 10t wide. So they run down the 600 00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,760 property lines. >> Yes. 601 00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:40,880 » A lot of them. >> Yeah. I mean, front and rear. Front and 602 00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:46,000 rear primarily. Sometimes they're on the side, sometimes they're not. But um that 603 00:46:44,240 --> 00:46:52,000 I I think that's important to have in there that don't build these on there. 604 00:46:49,119 --> 00:46:57,359 There's we allow people to build sheds on easements 605 00:46:54,160 --> 00:47:02,960 um all the time, but you're running the risk as a property owner that um you may 606 00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:06,240 have to move that. There's a big difference when you're 607 00:47:04,319 --> 00:47:10,800 spending a lot more money to do something permanent. You can't just move 608 00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:13,680 it. So, don't put it there in the first place. 609 00:47:11,839 --> 00:47:19,280 Can I is there is there any reason we couldn't say something to the effect of 610 00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:25,359 that the setback would have to follow for the DADU would have to follow the 611 00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:27,599 setback in the current zone for that lot. 612 00:47:25,839 --> 00:47:32,720 » I thought of that same thing Justin. That's not a bad idea is that you have 613 00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:34,319 to meet the same setback as the zone in which you're located. 614 00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:37,280 » Yeah. >> Because our the smallest setback we have 615 00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:42,400 is 8T. >> Yeah. So it would be 8t in some cases. 616 00:47:39,599 --> 00:47:46,480 It would be 10 ft. in other cases per pretty much between eight and 10 feet. 617 00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:50,319 » That That's not a That's not a bad I thought of that same thing. That's not a 618 00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:55,520 That's not a bad idea. >> Um 619 00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:58,880 um I propose taking 2C out because it's redundant. It already says that in the 620 00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:06,400 section below. >> Um about the 10-ft setback. Um 621 00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:09,760 uh number three, the dad shall not be larger in gross floor area than the 622 00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:14,640 single family dwelling located on the same lot or parcel. So it needs to be 623 00:48:11,839 --> 00:48:18,960 accessory to and smaller than I don't think that's going to be a problem in 624 00:48:16,319 --> 00:48:21,920 this city. Um but it would be in some places. 625 00:48:20,240 --> 00:48:27,119 » Um so here they would have to comply with 626 00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:32,400 the following. Uh we've already talked about the building height. We can do 627 00:48:28,559 --> 00:48:37,920 more work on that. um singlestory with a maximum of 1,200 square feet and a 628 00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:42,400 minimum of 400 square feet. Um I don't know if there needs to be a minimum. Um 629 00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:48,960 I just know a lot of other ordinances have maximum and minimums. Um this is 630 00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:54,559 pretty much in the realm of what a lot of other cities are doing. Um 631 00:48:52,559 --> 00:48:57,760 » what can you fit in 400 square feet? >> Isn't there something I don't know 632 00:48:56,160 --> 00:49:02,480 honestly? Honestly, 400 square feet in New York 633 00:48:59,839 --> 00:49:06,079 City would come at a premium. So for a studio, you can do it for less than 400. 634 00:49:04,720 --> 00:49:10,160 That's why I'm saying some of these studios 635 00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:14,640 » which is going to be probably in a greater need than we think. So 636 00:49:12,319 --> 00:49:17,680 » did um and I again I haven't gone through 637 00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:20,640 » 400 feet basically 20 by 20. >> It's a a small twocar garage. 638 00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:24,800 » Yeah. >> Um one of the earlier versions we saw 639 00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:29,760 specifically called out that it had to have a separate bedroom. Does this 640 00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:31,440 updated one have that? >> Okay. 641 00:49:30,240 --> 00:49:33,040 » Yeah, we'll get to that in just a minute. 642 00:49:31,839 --> 00:49:35,599 » Okay. >> The studio couldn't fit that. It would 643 00:49:34,559 --> 00:49:38,400 be like a >> That's my question. We'll get to 644 00:49:37,359 --> 00:49:41,920 bedroom. Yeah. >> Yeah. Let's get to that in just a 645 00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:47,520 second. Um >> um maximum lot coverage, you know, to 646 00:49:44,559 --> 00:49:52,400 meet our existing ordinances. Uh no more than 50% of the rear yard. 647 00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:56,559 » Do we do we need to put that in there specifically or is it just covered in a 648 00:49:54,160 --> 00:50:01,920 different ordinance? Well, I think it's a good idea to put that in here um just 649 00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:06,240 to make we we're referencing another ordinance, but it's critical to this 650 00:50:04,240 --> 00:50:08,400 discussion. So, I think it's okay to have that redundant. 651 00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:13,280 » It's better to have in there if someone's reading it to see if they need 652 00:50:10,240 --> 00:50:17,599 code to understand what that is, right? Instead of like reference, I don't know. 653 00:50:15,599 --> 00:50:21,599 » Just something else we have to update, you know, are we going to remember? 654 00:50:19,839 --> 00:50:27,359 » So, we've already talked about we've already talked about setbacks. um um 655 00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:31,839 separation between the primary structure and the D-ADU must be at least 10 ft 656 00:50:29,599 --> 00:50:38,160 including the eve. So that's from the house to the the DADU. Um that may be 657 00:50:36,079 --> 00:50:44,079 another one that we want to talk about. I I I I don't know. I mean, this is just 658 00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:48,960 a starting point um for that. Um but again, you're going to run into issues 659 00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:52,800 with fire code, which is what Darren is describing. That's probably a minimum 660 00:50:51,599 --> 00:50:56,720 distance. >> But if what if you built all the way up 661 00:50:54,160 --> 00:51:00,640 to the property line and if your uh if your eaves encroached into that 10 foot, 662 00:50:58,720 --> 00:51:02,720 they just would have to be rated like in other cities 663 00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:06,400 » probably. >> So that you would gain a little bit 664 00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:09,760 because an eve can be 18 in two feet. So you would gain that space, but you'd 665 00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:13,520 have to rate the pen, you know, any opening in that. Yeah, 666 00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:18,559 » I'd say too for our accessory building um they're all six feet from the rear of 667 00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:23,359 the building and then with eaves um it's like 3 to 5t. 668 00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:27,839 So um the next one is all windows on the 669 00:51:25,359 --> 00:51:35,520 DADU wall facing side or rear property line shall be uh fixed and obscured with 670 00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:40,480 frosted glass or shall be uh clustery windows with a seal height of at least 6 671 00:51:37,839 --> 00:51:44,880 feet above the finished floor. Darren and I discussing this this afternoon 672 00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:49,520 thought that that last part of that sentence or shall be clustery windows 673 00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:54,720 with a seal height of six at least six feet above the finished floor. That's 674 00:51:52,079 --> 00:51:58,559 probably not going to meet fire code. >> Um you can't have a window that's six 675 00:51:56,720 --> 00:52:03,040 feet off the ground and expect people to climb out of it. So 676 00:52:00,240 --> 00:52:07,040 » I I like the I I like the the obscure glass idea. I think it's a good idea, 677 00:52:05,599 --> 00:52:12,079 but the six feet, >> but it meets egress standards. 678 00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:19,040 » Yeah, it has to meet ingress and egress and um so so that piece of it probably 679 00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:22,559 doesn't work, but I I think the the uh obscured glass piece is probably a good 680 00:52:21,599 --> 00:52:26,240 idea. >> Why fixed? Why Why do they have to be 681 00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:29,119 fixed? >> I don't think they can be fixed for fire 682 00:52:28,240 --> 00:52:32,160 if it's a bedroom. >> Well, I mean, if it's a bedroom, but if 683 00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:35,280 it's an open if it's the open space, can't they be operable? so that you can 684 00:52:34,079 --> 00:52:37,280 get >> Yeah, 685 00:52:35,839 --> 00:52:42,240 » you can have ventilation coming through. >> That is another good point. I I mean, 686 00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:43,599 what's the point of the window if it you can't open it? 687 00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:49,839 » Yeah. >> Um I It's probably sound attenuation. I 688 00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:53,839 mean, that's my best guess is it's >> it it is sound attenuation, but um 689 00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:59,599 » so just take the fixed out. >> It's not it's not usable for ingress 690 00:52:58,079 --> 00:53:02,400 egress if it's fixed, >> but it could be in a common space unless 691 00:53:01,119 --> 00:53:05,040 you throw a chair through it. You know, you want to bring you want to bring 692 00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:09,839 light through it, just light into the space. 693 00:53:05,599 --> 00:53:14,800 » Not every window has to be movable, but some certain like at least one in every 694 00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:17,440 room does in a sleeping area in a sleeping area. 695 00:53:15,839 --> 00:53:20,960 » So, I can't imagine there's going to be multiple too many multiple rooms, 696 00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:24,880 multiple windows. >> No, that is another piece that we need 697 00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:26,559 to just >> Yeah. 698 00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:32,319 » Yeah. What if instead of scratching it, we still allow the celestial windows not 699 00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:36,359 be frosted if they're above six, but anything below six is frosted. 700 00:53:36,720 --> 00:53:41,040 » And and the other thing that I was thinking of is that 701 00:53:39,599 --> 00:53:44,559 » doesn't have to >> um you're probably going to have a six 702 00:53:43,119 --> 00:53:47,200 foot fan. So >> yeah, 703 00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:50,640 » anything that's below six feet, you're not going to see anything going on at 704 00:53:49,599 --> 00:53:54,880 the neighbor's house anyway. >> I I think the frosted window thing is 705 00:53:53,520 --> 00:54:00,319 kind of come out of left field. you go down to St. George, all the um cassitas 706 00:53:58,079 --> 00:54:03,760 that are built, which are everywhere, don't have frosted glass. They have the 707 00:54:02,240 --> 00:54:06,000 block walls, but I think you hit the point. They're going to have a fence. 708 00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:09,359 You're not going to be able to see out there anyway because you're standing on 709 00:54:07,359 --> 00:54:11,119 ground level. >> I mean, the window thing, I don't know 710 00:54:10,559 --> 00:54:13,520 if >> I think it's it's it's really just a 711 00:54:12,559 --> 00:54:16,800 second story. >> Yeah. If you 712 00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:19,839 » you're going to be able to see second level's correct, but for 713 00:54:18,319 --> 00:54:22,480 » But we're not doing a second level, are we? 714 00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:27,680 » Oh, you're saying second level of a home looking down. Well, even even a garage, 715 00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:31,440 you would possibly have windows up there for people to be able to get out because 716 00:54:29,599 --> 00:54:34,960 you got to have more than one. >> So, if it's 717 00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:39,680 » they're up 20 ft, they definitely can look into the neighbor's yard. That's 718 00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:44,400 » one of the concerns. >> So, so that's something that we can kind 719 00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:49,200 of continue to massage a little bit. >> Yeah. 720 00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:54,480 » Um, okay. under design uh to the extent permitted by Utah code 721 00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:59,359 um and currently adopted international fire code, a DADU shall be designed in a 722 00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:05,200 manner consistent with the design of the single family dwelling located on the 723 00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:10,559 same water parcel. And then to uh uh well that's the part that says this 724 00:55:08,079 --> 00:55:15,599 needs to look like your house as much as possible. Um, and then the second part I 725 00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:21,280 think is what you were waiting on, Justin, is that the DADU shall provide 726 00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:25,280 kitchen, at least one bedroom and a bathroom with a toilet, sink, tub, 727 00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:29,760 shower that are separate from those provided within the primary dwelling 728 00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:34,559 unit. Um, the international building code will be used to define what 729 00:55:31,359 --> 00:55:39,359 constitutes various rooms in the DADU. >> Yeah. So, my my question on that was 730 00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:44,559 what about a studio? You know, why are we why would we 731 00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:47,960 require a bedroom. Would we not be okay with a studio? 732 00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:54,559 » I think that's a good question. >> I think we should have a provision to 733 00:55:52,720 --> 00:55:56,079 allow for studio apartments. >> Yeah. 734 00:55:55,119 --> 00:55:59,200 » And I think >> 400 square feet, it's that's its option. 735 00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:04,799 » Exactly. >> I I think if you just scratch at least 736 00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:13,799 one bedroom, the rest of it is great. >> Okay, let's let let us work on that. Um 737 00:56:10,799 --> 00:56:13,799 um 738 00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:19,520 then it just says if the requirement of this section conflicts with Utah code, 739 00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:28,240 the requirements of state law shall control. Um let's move on to parking. 740 00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:34,319 Um a D Aedu containing less than 650 uh square feet of gross floor area. Um 741 00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:40,640 will have one on-site parking space required for the DADU. and that if it's 742 00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:47,119 above 650 square feet, it would be two on at least two on-site parking spaces 743 00:56:44,079 --> 00:56:53,359 are required uh for the D-ADU. Um the required uh D-ADU parking spaces 744 00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:57,839 shall be provided on the same lot or parcel as the DADU and shall be in 745 00:56:56,240 --> 00:57:02,880 addition to required parking for the primary dwelling. Um on street parking 746 00:57:00,799 --> 00:57:07,839 shall be prohibited for occupants of the D-ADU. Other parking impacts such as 747 00:57:05,839 --> 00:57:13,200 winter parking conditions, street safety, and neighborhood congestion 748 00:57:09,359 --> 00:57:17,839 shall be considered. Um, any questions about that? 749 00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:22,720 » The only question I have is the for on street parking shall be prohibited for 750 00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:28,400 occupants. I think we I I I guess just clarification. Are we saying that um 751 00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:32,640 like long-term parking or we just saying that they can never occupants can 752 00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:37,119 » longterm parking? Okay. Yeah, >> this doesn't say you can't have friends 753 00:57:34,799 --> 00:57:40,559 over at your house. It's it's essentially saying that 754 00:57:39,119 --> 00:57:45,200 » you have to have two parking. >> If you need on street parking to make 755 00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:49,760 this work, it you're in the wrong you're trying to do the wrong thing. You've got 756 00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:51,440 to have off- streetet parking. >> Can I 757 00:57:50,079 --> 00:57:54,160 » because code is they can't park on the street over the winter anyway. 758 00:57:52,559 --> 00:57:59,200 » Yeah. So I guess my question would be on that four is that do we need to put that 759 00:57:56,000 --> 00:58:04,640 in there because we say in one that you have to so uh anything less than 650 760 00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:08,880 square feet requires one parking space two is anything greater than 650 761 00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:13,599 requires two parking spaces and then four is on street parking shall we is it 762 00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:18,079 redundant I guess that number four do we need that in there or can we remove 763 00:58:15,119 --> 00:58:22,799 that? Well, I one thing I I thought about that when that came up and the 764 00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:27,760 question's been asked. What if there's, you know, two adults and a teenager and 765 00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:32,240 they all have a car? If you turn around and say, "Oh, one of 766 00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:35,680 the cars has got to park on the street because there's not enough room because 767 00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:39,839 we only have two parking spots." That's that's the issue where you start coming 768 00:58:37,119 --> 00:58:44,319 into issues. And so, you need to look more than just, okay, yeah, they're only 769 00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:47,280 going to have two cars. They may not. They may have three. They may have four 770 00:58:46,319 --> 00:58:50,799 cars. >> So, how are you gonna enforce that? 771 00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:56,559 » I I think it's this this is more of an enforcement thing than I it this is 772 00:58:54,079 --> 00:59:01,200 something that helps the city say because we we all know that um the 773 00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:05,200 neighbors are going to complain about people parking on the street day in and 774 00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:09,440 day out. So, this is more of an enforcement thing. You go out there and 775 00:59:06,559 --> 00:59:15,119 say you can't park on the street around, you know, 24/7. Um, you've got to get 776 00:59:12,319 --> 00:59:21,839 these cars off the street and parked on your property, but I mean Darren makes a 777 00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:28,240 great point. I mean, only rec requiring two parking stalls, I mean, you you 778 00:59:25,599 --> 00:59:35,200 could have more cars than that there. Um, it's going to be a balancing act. It 779 00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:38,400 it's almost like a case-byase basis. >> How many how many cars does the primary 780 00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:41,040 dwelling have? I was just going to say the primer. If you've got a five- 781 00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:46,160 bedroomedroom house and you're putting in a DAU out back and you've got 782 00:59:44,559 --> 00:59:50,000 » six people living in that house and they all have a car and they're using up any 783 00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:54,079 and all parking space, which is probably over and above what a normal uh house 784 00:59:52,559 --> 01:00:01,359 would use, what where do you drive a line, can the DAD use like um guest 785 00:59:57,760 --> 01:00:06,160 parking or RV parking of the primary or what do we count as parking for the 786 01:00:03,599 --> 01:00:10,960 DADU? because at any time that the primary 787 01:00:09,119 --> 01:00:15,920 residence could potentially have all these people with cars. So, are we gonna 788 01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:19,040 have to take when they apply for a permit, which they will need to have 789 01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:23,520 whether it's an interior or exterior unit, they'll have to get a permit to 790 01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:27,280 have it be there. So, then we have to probably have one of the questions is 791 01:00:25,599 --> 01:00:33,200 well, how many people are living in the primary so we can figure out parking? 792 01:00:31,119 --> 01:00:39,920 Yeah, it it may be a bit of a moving piece. 793 01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:44,880 » Um it we we know we know where we we know where we've run into parking 794 01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:48,799 problems around the city. >> So part of the approval pro process 795 01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:54,240 right now for the internal dwelling units that we have in the city is that 796 01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:59,920 part of their application um they have a site plan that comes in. They show all 797 01:00:56,000 --> 01:01:05,760 the parking um for both the home and the additional parking that would be for 798 01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:10,000 those living in the in the unit. Um and once again, if it's two cars, they show 799 01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:15,200 there's two cars, here's the home parking, but it is part of that is that 800 01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:21,920 there's no on street parking for for that. So, it it is a challenge. Um and 801 01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:24,559 and it is phone calls that we do take that we have to go talk to the 802 01:01:23,119 --> 01:01:29,680 individuals or go look and see what's happening. Um but I I will tell you we 803 01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:33,599 also get that with the regular house. >> Yeah. 804 01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:37,599 » Um where they got eight cars and they can only fit four of them in the 805 01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:40,319 driveway. Um and then it's the question, well where do we put the rest of our 806 01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:43,280 cars? >> I I guess that's my point and I don't 807 01:01:41,839 --> 01:01:47,920 have any issue with it being in there. Just to me it seems like to your point 808 01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:51,599 Darren if somebody has a single residence right now has eight cars and 809 01:01:50,319 --> 01:01:56,400 they have four on the street what do we what do you do about it now? Is there 810 01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:58,880 anything you can do about it? >> Um yeah during during certain times yeah 811 01:01:58,559 --> 01:02:02,000 we can >> during winter but let's say right now 812 01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:05,280 right when it's there's no snow out there and weather's good there's nothing 813 01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:09,760 » we have a thing about parking. >> We we do have an ordinance about parking 814 01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:14,160 and um if it's there left there for so long or or those kind of things. 815 01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:18,160 » Yeah. Um, which I I will tell you, I I've taken multiple notices for 816 01:02:16,799 --> 01:02:24,000 individuals that have had their cars parked out um on the street or in a 817 01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:27,359 culde-sac where cars can't get in to deliver the mail and they've been there 818 01:02:25,599 --> 01:02:32,480 for a month and the neighbors are just like, "Can't they park somewhere else?" 819 01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:36,079 And I I do I I'll get a call um I'll go look. I'll take notices and just remind 820 01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:42,160 them, here's the parking ordinance, here's the requirements. And I will tell 821 01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:45,200 you probably 95% of the time they're just like, "Oh yeah, we didn't even 822 01:02:43,359 --> 01:02:50,240 realize we were blocking our neighbors." Um and and they move them all and put 823 01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:54,640 them in the driveway. Um so it's just a it's it's an enforcement thing, but if 824 01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:57,839 you have nothing there, then you're not going to be able to go back and 825 01:02:56,000 --> 01:03:00,559 » but wouldn't it fall under enforcement of regular like everything else? 826 01:02:59,839 --> 01:03:04,000 » What's that? >> Wouldn't it fall under and this isn't a 827 01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:08,480 hill I'm going to die on, right? But it just seems it seems redundant to me. 828 01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:14,480 Yes, essentially Justin. Yes, >> it is. It is. But once again, um you you 829 01:03:12,319 --> 01:03:18,640 still want to try to make it as clear in the ordinance, here's the rules, and I'm 830 01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:22,000 not having to go five places to find the rules. Okay. 831 01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:27,359 » Um it it's here. I can go through and see it and follow through it. 832 01:03:24,559 --> 01:03:32,880 » If you say upfront, you cannot park these people on the street, that sends 833 01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:35,760 that message that that's just you just can't do it. Yeah, 834 01:03:34,079 --> 01:03:40,240 » you've got to have provide street. >> I guess my question, yeah, 835 01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:43,680 » if Darren, you came to my if somebody came to my house and said, "No, 836 01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:47,440 » my your ADU people cannot park on the street," I'd say, "Show me why." Right. 837 01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:50,160 And this this isn't legally bind like you can't tell me they can. 838 01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:52,559 » No. Um, >> so 839 01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:56,720 » how well is that enforced? I don't know. It's a problem in every city. 840 01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:59,680 » Yeah. But I 100% agree. I think if if any I think if people are filling up the 841 01:03:58,799 --> 01:04:04,559 street, that's going to be a big problem. And so I 100% agree. We need 842 01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:09,119 sufficient parking for these units. So >> I I missed number five which which says 843 01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:14,160 if an existing detached garage is converted to a DADU, any parking spaces 844 01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:17,760 required for the primary dwelling that were previously provided within the 845 01:04:15,839 --> 01:04:23,280 detached garage shall be replaced on site. Um replacement parking is separate 846 01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:27,440 from parking required for the D-ADU itself. So that further describes what 847 01:04:25,839 --> 01:04:31,440 we're just talking about right now is that you've got to have adequate off- 848 01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:36,240 streetet parking for whatever you're doing. 849 01:04:33,119 --> 01:04:42,400 Yep. Um let's move on to owner occupancy. Um the owner of the lot or 850 01:04:39,119 --> 01:04:48,720 parcel containing the DADU shall occupy as the owner's primary residence either 851 01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:55,280 the single family dwelling or the DADU. one or the other um has to be um 852 01:04:52,319 --> 01:05:00,640 occupied by the owner of the property. Okay, that's another one that I had a 853 01:04:57,200 --> 01:05:04,960 question on here. Um, which happens frequently. If you have an older couple 854 01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:09,680 that leaves for an extended period of time, 855 01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:16,720 um, they rent out their place. And if they have an ADU in or a DADU out, that 856 01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:22,720 could conceivably have two non-owner occupied people in the house. So that 857 01:05:20,319 --> 01:05:25,599 would make it to where if they let's say they have a second house and they go 858 01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:30,000 there six months and they do a six-month lease or they go on an LDS mission or 859 01:05:27,680 --> 01:05:34,720 whatever planetarian something that takes them away. 860 01:05:32,319 --> 01:05:39,839 Um are we saying if you've got two you can only rent out one or the other? Um, 861 01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:44,559 that's how that's how I understand that. >> There's a piece in their ordinance that 862 01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:48,640 I screenshotted that I thought I'd bring up, but I don't I don't know how it 863 01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:54,079 » I do see exceptions to that that that there's considerations. Um, we can build 864 01:05:51,599 --> 01:05:57,599 something into that. Number two on this says that the owner shall not 865 01:05:55,359 --> 01:06:03,440 simultaneously rent both the single family dwelling and the DADU um while 866 01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:13,280 residing at another location. That's probably pretty valid, but maybe there 867 01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:19,680 needs to be a a um a consideration for some short period of time that somebody 868 01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:24,240 may be on sbatical or whatever. >> Well, and I thought of another scenario 869 01:06:21,599 --> 01:06:30,160 to where if there are parents of means and their kids need places, the parents 870 01:06:26,559 --> 01:06:36,799 may buy that house and let a family member live in it. So, you're not going 871 01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:40,160 to have uh the owner of record living in that property. 872 01:06:38,079 --> 01:06:44,480 » I don't I don't know if it was in here, but it did state at some point on one of 873 01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:48,960 the versions that um you could allow family to stay in either, I think, and 874 01:06:47,119 --> 01:06:53,359 not have to occupy. >> I could come up with something pretty 875 01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:57,359 easily that maybe further describe that, but um 876 01:06:54,480 --> 01:07:01,680 » Farmington there it says that they call it temporary absentee ownership. 877 01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:04,559 Ownership may be allowed due to circumstances such as military 878 01:07:03,200 --> 01:07:10,240 assignment, employment commitments, family obligations, quas public service. 879 01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:14,640 Um the maximum period of time for a temporary shall not exceed 12 months. So 880 01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:18,000 like they have to come to the city and make them wear like I'm going on a 881 01:07:15,839 --> 01:07:21,440 mission, my house will be empty or I got you know called away from military but 882 01:07:19,520 --> 01:07:27,760 the maximum time is 12 months. I don't have a issue with that. I don't know how 883 01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:31,760 you would enforce it, but they I didn't hate that piece because that can happen 884 01:07:29,839 --> 01:07:33,680 » except it would be more than 12 months for most of 885 01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:35,280 » Yeah. >> Well, 886 01:07:34,079 --> 01:07:37,039 » I think it's better to have somebody in it though than to have it sitting 887 01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:39,440 vacant. >> Yeah. Yeah. 888 01:07:38,079 --> 01:07:42,400 » Even for the neighborhood. >> Yeah. Well, I think a time restraint for 889 01:07:41,599 --> 01:07:44,960 temporary >> Yeah, I like that. 890 01:07:43,119 --> 01:07:46,640 » Absentee isn't is a good idea. >> Tell me 891 01:07:45,359 --> 01:07:47,839 » I didn't hate that. I thought it was like a good 892 01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:53,520 » Yeah. >> Yeah. I'll work on that. Tell me what 893 01:07:50,400 --> 01:08:00,960 you think about um if these individuals are away, should 894 01:07:56,640 --> 01:08:06,559 they be allowed to rent both dwellings? Because this says you couldn't do that. 895 01:08:03,760 --> 01:08:12,480 You can't move away and rent both out. And I'm going to air on the side of 896 01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:16,960 property rights. If I own something, I should have the right 897 01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:22,719 to rent that out if I'm away, you know, for a short period of time temporarily. 898 01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:26,560 Okay. So I mean do we say and I'm this is I'm not saying this is it but is it 899 01:08:24,480 --> 01:08:31,040 you know two temporary being two years within a certain period of time two 900 01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:34,560 years within five years or two years within x number of years 901 01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:36,960 » and that's that's what a lot of HOAs have. They have time restraints like 902 01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:40,640 that. >> So I think that's something that we 903 01:08:38,719 --> 01:08:48,159 should build into our ordinance. >> Now let me just say this that this is a 904 01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:52,480 problem in the city right now. We have we have 905 01:08:50,319 --> 01:08:58,560 multiple complaints of homes that are renting to upstairs and downstairs in 906 01:08:55,759 --> 01:09:03,679 homes right now, which is illegal. >> And that is clearly stated in our 907 01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:10,480 internal accessory dwelling unit ordinance that you cannot rent to at the 908 01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:11,839 same time. So, this should probably be in 909 01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:17,040 » aligned >> alignment with what that already says or 910 01:09:14,480 --> 01:09:24,080 we should change all that, too. But um we're having problems now with this very 911 01:09:20,560 --> 01:09:27,679 issue of people renting multiple they have basically multiple apartments 912 01:09:26,159 --> 01:09:29,679 in the same house. >> Agreed. 913 01:09:28,319 --> 01:09:33,440 » And my I mean my thing with the temporary is like you I'm fine if they 914 01:09:31,839 --> 01:09:36,400 still can only rent one but like a family member could live there. Someone 915 01:09:34,880 --> 01:09:39,279 can take care of it or >> I think 916 01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:42,640 » double dipping on rent is >> Yeah. 917 01:09:40,159 --> 01:09:47,199 » I mean you can make up a lot of reasons. So I think it would have to be like they 918 01:09:44,799 --> 01:09:49,920 come in and you that they've been >> all the way on a mission and you're like 919 01:09:48,719 --> 01:09:53,920 my kid's going to live there >> and if family's living there rent free 920 01:09:52,239 --> 01:09:54,719 that's not rent that's not a rental unit. 921 01:09:54,320 --> 01:09:57,199 » Yeah. That's >> but they can take care of it. Yeah. 922 01:09:56,480 --> 01:10:00,480 » Yeah. >> But double rent I don't I mean I just 923 01:09:59,840 --> 01:10:05,600 think you're >> So is that the differentiation we would 924 01:10:02,719 --> 01:10:09,760 make then is if they're paying a rent they can live there indefinitely and 925 01:10:08,159 --> 01:10:13,280 occupy that premises. >> Yeah. This says that 926 01:10:10,560 --> 01:10:18,719 » indefinitely if they're not rent. >> Yeah. that this doesn't apply to people 927 01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:22,960 that are so le let's say you use the DADU as a guest house or you've got 928 01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:25,920 family staying there for a few weeks or something. Yeah, it doesn't if you're 929 01:10:24,480 --> 01:10:28,560 not charging them rent that does you're not this doesn't apply to you. 930 01:10:27,440 --> 01:10:31,840 » And I wonder if that's going to encourage people to take it under the 931 01:10:30,159 --> 01:10:37,440 table. >> Well, I don't know. Maybe. 932 01:10:35,440 --> 01:10:39,440 » I mean, yeah. How how do you enforce it? Right. You can't 933 01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:43,679 » I [laughter] mean all this stuff, how do you enforce I know people that already 934 01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:46,239 have in the city and it's not legal. So >> yeah, 935 01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:49,600 » they have for a decade >> to be discussed, right? 936 01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:52,320 » Yeah. So >> it's always going to be hard to 937 01:10:51,840 --> 01:10:57,040 » Yeah. >> Um, moving on. Uh, prior to issuance of 938 01:10:55,040 --> 01:11:01,840 a final approval of or a certificate of occupancy for a DADU, the city will 939 01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:05,440 require the owner to execute an affidavit or other reasonable 940 01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:11,600 certification establishing compliance with this section. um just establishing 941 01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:15,679 that that they're the owner of record of the property and that they live there. 942 01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:21,440 Um um shared ownership prohibited. Um the 943 01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:27,120 parcel whereby a primary dwelling and an ADU are located must be owned by the 944 01:11:23,440 --> 01:11:30,719 same legal owner. Um three, uh the city may require reasonable periodic 945 01:11:28,800 --> 01:11:36,960 certification of continued compliance with owner occupancy requirement uh to 946 01:11:33,840 --> 01:11:44,159 the extent permitted by law. Um, moving on to rental restrictions. 947 01:11:40,480 --> 01:11:48,640 Um, a DADU may not be rented, leased, or offered, or otherwise occupied for 948 01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:56,640 compensation for a period of less than 90 consecutive days. So, no short-term 949 01:11:51,040 --> 01:12:02,880 rentals. Um, a DADU may be used as a short-term or nightly Oh, a D a Dadu may 950 01:12:00,239 --> 01:12:08,320 not be used as a short-term or nightly rental in violation of this section. Um 951 01:12:05,760 --> 01:12:14,800 the primary dwelling and the DADU shall s share the same address. Um mobile 952 01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:19,280 homes, recreational vehicles, camp trailers, and shipping containers shall 953 01:12:16,400 --> 01:12:27,199 not be used as as a DADU. Um a DADU is not allowed on any lot that 954 01:12:22,880 --> 01:12:31,440 contains multifamily dwellings. So um we've kind of already talked about that. 955 01:12:29,120 --> 01:12:37,280 Any concerns with any of that? Jeff, just to on the shared same address, one 956 01:12:34,880 --> 01:12:38,560 unit would have A and one unit would have B. 957 01:12:38,159 --> 01:12:43,199 » Yeah. >> Um but it is the same address that that 958 01:12:41,199 --> 01:12:48,159 helps the fire department and that also or emergency services, law enforcement, 959 01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:51,840 plus also um providing a mailbox. >> And that's only for a DADU, right? Not 960 01:12:50,400 --> 01:12:54,400 » No, the internal is the same way. >> Internal. 961 01:12:52,320 --> 01:13:00,480 » Yeah, we do the same thing on internal. Um they use the same address. One's an A 962 01:12:56,480 --> 01:13:04,000 address and one's a B address. The only qu and I I don't know the 963 01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:08,320 answer to this, but um one requiring a no less than 90 consecutive days. I I 964 01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:13,679 agree with that. Um my only comment is it seems like that would um force a 965 01:13:11,760 --> 01:13:19,120 lease agreement rather than like a month-to-month rental situation, which 966 01:13:17,199 --> 01:13:24,400 if we can do it, I think that's fine. I just don't know if we can force that. 967 01:13:22,080 --> 01:13:29,600 » You can do that. Actually, I have a property that they require that theirs 968 01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:34,159 is a minimum of 30 days, but you have to produce a lease agreement for a year and 969 01:13:32,159 --> 01:13:38,719 show that whoever's there using it as their primary. 970 01:13:36,159 --> 01:13:44,640 Again, this is in this is parallel to our existing ADU 971 01:13:41,600 --> 01:13:51,360 ordinance, which um it it it's saying the same thing. Um um 972 01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:55,600 » you can use your entire home as a short-term rental, 973 01:13:53,360 --> 01:14:00,640 but you can't use an accessory dwelling unit as a short-term rental. 974 01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:04,400 That's the way we're currently operating. 975 01:14:02,159 --> 01:14:08,080 » No, Jeff. I don't think we allow any short-term rentals in the city. I think 976 01:14:06,239 --> 01:14:11,199 there's an ordinance that says there's no short-term rentals in 977 01:14:09,679 --> 01:14:13,440 » I might be mistaken about that. >> You're thinking, 978 01:14:12,080 --> 01:14:17,199 » scratch that. [laughter] I'm say that's news to me. 979 01:14:15,199 --> 01:14:20,560 » You're like, I'm moving out. >> But but but people are allowed to rent 980 01:14:19,440 --> 01:14:23,040 out their home. >> Yes, 981 01:14:21,040 --> 01:14:26,080 » they can rent out their home, but it long term. Not short. So we don't allow 982 01:14:25,440 --> 01:14:30,080 any short term. >> Any short term? 983 01:14:27,280 --> 01:14:34,960 » All right. Okay. I stand corrected. >> Okay. 984 01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:39,679 » Um Okay. Building health and fire codes. 985 01:14:37,360 --> 01:14:43,760 Every DADU shall comply with all the applicable uh building codes, fire 986 01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:48,480 codes, health codes, electrical codes, plumbing codes, mechanical codes, and 987 01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:54,560 other applicable construction or life safety requirements. Um 988 01:14:52,080 --> 01:15:01,440 um the DADU may may um or no DADU may be 989 01:14:59,440 --> 01:15:05,760 occupied until all inspections have been completed and the city has issued a 990 01:15:03,520 --> 01:15:10,880 certificate of occupancy or other required authorization for residential 991 01:15:07,760 --> 01:15:16,159 occupancy. If an existing structure being converted to a DD DADU cannot meet 992 01:15:13,760 --> 01:15:22,320 all the above stated building codes, the permit shall not be issued. um that's 993 01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:26,800 going to be a problem for in in some situations. It's sometimes pretty 994 01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:31,840 difficult to convert an existing building and bring it up to all of the 995 01:15:28,880 --> 01:15:37,199 codes, but it just has to be that way. >> Um there there can't be exceptions to 996 01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:39,920 that or you'll you'll have buildings burnt to the ground. 997 01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:44,800 » Yep. Um 998 01:15:41,679 --> 01:15:53,040 um utilities and infrastructure. The primary dwelling in the ADU uh shall 999 01:15:49,600 --> 01:16:00,159 uh connect that needs to say DADU shall connect to the same water, gas, 1000 01:15:56,560 --> 01:16:04,719 sewer, etc. utility line. So essentially, it's just saying you can't 1001 01:16:02,640 --> 01:16:10,239 have separate utilities. They have to be tied to the same utility structure. um 1002 01:16:08,080 --> 01:16:16,719 all the same utility has to share utilities. Um further um municipal 1003 01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:21,199 building shall be directed to the property owner and the owner shall 1004 01:16:18,560 --> 01:16:27,199 solely be liable for municipal bills issued. Um the owner will be build for 1005 01:16:24,480 --> 01:16:31,679 each separate dwelling on the property on the same bill. Monthly bill will 1006 01:16:29,440 --> 01:16:35,532 include the following water, sewer, garbage, storm, drain, um 1007 01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:40,239 transportation, utility fee. [clears throat] 1008 01:16:36,480 --> 01:16:44,000 Um a D AU shall have adequate access to all utility services required by 1009 01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:52,000 applicable law and ordinance, city ordinance. Um, the city may deny an 1010 01:16:48,000 --> 01:16:58,239 application for a DD DADU if it will not have adequate access to required utility 1011 01:16:55,440 --> 01:17:02,080 services that or service that constitutes a project improvement, 1012 01:16:59,920 --> 01:17:05,840 including sanitary sewer, culinary water, electrical service, or storm 1013 01:17:03,679 --> 01:17:14,159 water facilities. So, if it's unrealistic to get those to the the 1014 01:17:09,600 --> 01:17:17,840 property, that may stop it as well. Um um 1015 01:17:15,760 --> 01:17:22,159 but they've got to have those things. >> Okay. On that, that doesn't make sense 1016 01:17:19,600 --> 01:17:29,199 to me. If number up on number one, one service at the DADU and the primary has 1017 01:17:25,520 --> 01:17:34,239 the same utility lines, yet um it's saying that each one wants to be 1018 01:17:32,159 --> 01:17:37,360 built separately. How's that going to be accomplished? 1019 01:17:36,080 --> 01:17:41,600 » Build separately. >> Well, will there be meters metered 1020 01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:44,880 separately? because that's not how I read number one. 1021 01:17:42,800 --> 01:17:47,280 » They'd be on the same meter. >> There's no 1022 01:17:45,840 --> 01:17:50,159 » So, how are they how they going to figure a proportion of billing to the 1023 01:17:49,280 --> 01:17:54,080 the primary? >> I don't know. Darren and I was talking 1024 01:17:51,440 --> 01:18:00,000 about that today, too. Your thoughts? >> Let's let's just talk water. Um, so if 1025 01:17:57,280 --> 01:18:07,040 the if they have a one water meter, there's two different units. Um they 1026 01:18:03,120 --> 01:18:10,719 each are build a base rate which every resident in through heights gets on 1027 01:18:08,480 --> 01:18:18,640 their homes or their property. Um the water usage um if there becomes overage 1028 01:18:14,159 --> 01:18:23,679 that's splits. So and their gallon their thousand gallons could be a little bit 1029 01:18:20,080 --> 01:18:27,840 different um on how they do that. Um, so yes, they would get a two base rates, 1030 01:18:25,679 --> 01:18:34,719 they would get two sewer connections, they'd get um two transportation utility 1031 01:18:31,280 --> 01:18:37,440 fees, uh, >> all those different 1032 01:18:35,520 --> 01:18:46,239 » gas if there's not I mean there's a >> Well, so gas and electric power are not 1033 01:18:43,360 --> 01:18:50,560 ran by the city. Yeah. Um, and and I'm not sure if they would just say, "Nope, 1034 01:18:48,400 --> 01:18:55,600 they can have one and then we'll just build it all at one cost." Uh, as you 1035 01:18:53,199 --> 01:19:00,320 know, power, the more power you use, it's a higher rate. Um, they're there's 1036 01:18:57,840 --> 01:19:03,280 not they're not going to give you any division in that. They're just going to 1037 01:19:01,840 --> 01:19:08,719 Yep. You're using more power, more power, we're charging you for it. Um the 1038 01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:14,080 reason the reason is for that if we're not charging impact fees for these new 1039 01:19:10,480 --> 01:19:20,480 buildings. Um it is still a pretty big impact on the city infrastructure. Um 1040 01:19:18,320 --> 01:19:24,320 not only you know coming in and making sure things are connected, making sure 1041 01:19:22,239 --> 01:19:29,120 things are done. I have more traffic driving on the roads um in these 1042 01:19:26,560 --> 01:19:34,480 subdivisions. there's there's more storm water because now you have a lot more 1043 01:19:31,920 --> 01:19:39,280 surface that's um not taking water into the ground. So there's a there's a lot 1044 01:19:36,239 --> 01:19:43,199 of things that go along with an external dwelling union unit that may not go 1045 01:19:41,840 --> 01:19:47,600 along with an internal one. >> Yeah. Um, and so in order to cover those 1046 01:19:46,239 --> 01:19:54,239 things >> that is where it's not a new connection 1047 01:19:50,320 --> 01:19:58,320 onto the the main line or that um that was the way honestly I tell you that's 1048 01:19:56,640 --> 01:20:06,239 the way I could find that it would be the best um fit for the city recovering 1049 01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:09,840 its cost that it's going to start receiving for all this stuff. 1050 01:20:07,840 --> 01:20:13,520 » So you're not saying ADUs, you're just saying DADUs will 1051 01:20:11,360 --> 01:20:17,520 » just Yep. Just the Yep. >> Okay. I guess my question too on this 1052 01:20:15,600 --> 01:20:22,880 would be if they're using the same gas and electric service, which they would 1053 01:20:19,760 --> 01:20:29,120 be, you know, when those gas lines are put in, they're put in based on the size 1054 01:20:26,480 --> 01:20:35,199 of the primary, not taking into consideration adding a DADU down the 1055 01:20:32,320 --> 01:20:39,120 line. Uh, electrically, whether you have a 200 amp meter, 400 amp service, 100 1056 01:20:37,600 --> 01:20:42,960 amp service, depending. A lot of the older homes only have 100 amp service. 1057 01:20:41,120 --> 01:20:48,239 So, um I guess there would be an inspection 1058 01:20:45,679 --> 01:20:54,560 process to when they're doing whether an ADU or DADU to make sure that they have 1059 01:20:50,640 --> 01:20:56,960 adequate service to accommodate that extra building. 1060 01:20:55,679 --> 01:21:00,320 » Yeah, that that would be part of the building permit that they that they can 1061 01:20:58,960 --> 01:21:05,120 meet the requirements of another building with power. Um and it may be 1062 01:21:03,360 --> 01:21:09,600 they have to come back in and put a bigger breaker in the whole whole place. 1063 01:21:07,760 --> 01:21:12,960 They may have to run from a whole transformer and come down and say, 1064 01:21:11,120 --> 01:21:15,920 "We're only serving you this much. Now, you're gonna have to go to the 1065 01:21:13,760 --> 01:21:21,600 transformer and bring this much to the property so we can serve the other 1066 01:21:17,440 --> 01:21:26,320 building." Um, the city doesn't control those utilities. Um but as they went 1067 01:21:24,640 --> 01:21:29,360 through the building permit process and stuff like that, um that would probably 1068 01:21:28,080 --> 01:21:35,120 be one thing that is going to be looked at is watch your, you know, power coming 1069 01:21:33,920 --> 01:21:39,360 into the building, >> watch your gas meter because I I will 1070 01:21:36,960 --> 01:21:43,760 tell you some of these older homes >> have a very small gas line coming in and 1071 01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:48,880 they may have to pull the whole gas meter out and replace it with a bigger 1072 01:21:46,080 --> 01:21:56,239 gas meter. Now, is that an impact on fruit heights? No. But it is an impact 1073 01:21:51,199 --> 01:22:00,000 on those utilities that like I said I don't know what those utilities are 1074 01:21:57,920 --> 01:22:03,199 going to charge. I can only say this is what Fruit Heights needs to do to cover 1075 01:22:02,239 --> 01:22:09,040 its costs. >> Is this what other cities have opted to 1076 01:22:05,360 --> 01:22:15,920 do is to charge double on a DADU on here. So, so some cities have uh if 1077 01:22:13,199 --> 01:22:23,360 it's an individual connection, they have come up with a a the double um if they 1078 01:22:20,480 --> 01:22:27,520 connect themselves um so they have their independent, they 1079 01:22:26,159 --> 01:22:33,520 pay all the impact fees. So, they're paying all the impact fees and they're 1080 01:22:28,960 --> 01:22:38,239 still getting build for that unit. >> I I need to make sure I understand what 1081 01:22:35,440 --> 01:22:43,360 you're saying. Are you suggesting that power and gas could be separately 1082 01:22:41,040 --> 01:22:48,080 metered or no? >> Well, depending on um the the meter at 1083 01:22:46,080 --> 01:22:51,520 the home, they may have to run another power line if they're 1084 01:22:50,000 --> 01:22:55,600 » if they're don't have a big enough service coming in to 1085 01:22:54,960 --> 01:22:58,560 » a whole new line. >> Yeah. So, they may have to run a whole 1086 01:22:56,719 --> 01:23:02,480 another line to that to cover that >> be on the same meter still. 1087 01:23:00,480 --> 01:23:07,040 » Not necessarily. that that's once again that's up to the g that's up to the 1088 01:23:04,000 --> 01:23:10,880 power and gas out of this equation and just say you just say utilities 1089 01:23:09,360 --> 01:23:15,600 » power and gas company says >> yeah well I think they they need to 1090 01:23:13,440 --> 01:23:22,080 » well any electrician is going to be able to tell them do do you have sufficient 1091 01:23:18,080 --> 01:23:25,199 service to supply a DADU and if they don't they're going to have to upgrade 1092 01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:27,760 their service >> and upgrade it 1093 01:23:26,239 --> 01:23:33,280 » so that would be part of the inspection and permitting process with the 1094 01:23:29,840 --> 01:23:38,800 subcontractors the electricians know gas I they should have the same um 1095 01:23:36,880 --> 01:23:42,639 way to figure that you know if you're building a new home [clears throat] 1096 01:23:40,560 --> 01:23:47,679 » they're going to figure the gas company per how many uh appliances 1097 01:23:46,159 --> 01:23:49,600 » everything that's going to be using that do you have an adequate line or do you 1098 01:23:49,199 --> 01:23:52,320 not >> right 1099 01:23:50,480 --> 01:23:57,280 » but I'm saying in the ordinance should we not say that you have to connect to 1100 01:23:54,960 --> 01:24:01,120 the same power and gas >> I I wouldn't I don't know 1101 01:23:59,120 --> 01:24:04,960 » should we leave that that those two piece those two utilities. 1102 01:24:02,719 --> 01:24:08,800 » The city doesn't control that. >> Well, they control on the services that 1103 01:24:07,280 --> 01:24:11,280 they're saying, I think was what Darren is saying, but they don't control the 1104 01:24:10,400 --> 01:24:16,000 power. >> Under three, you don't have power gas. 1105 01:24:13,440 --> 01:24:18,080 Further down on five, it says electrical service. 1106 01:24:16,400 --> 01:24:26,000 » I'm questioning, you're not going to like this, whether we are double 1107 01:24:21,360 --> 01:24:31,040 charging one residence for having a detached building versus adding on. 1108 01:24:28,639 --> 01:24:35,639 » Yeah. I feel like we're kind of punishing a little bit. 1109 01:24:32,639 --> 01:24:35,639 » Yeah. 1110 01:24:35,760 --> 01:24:44,560 » Well, I mean, so I'm just put it out. I I'll throw one other one out on that 1111 01:24:41,360 --> 01:24:47,760 one. Our current ordinance um for like apartments. 1112 01:24:45,679 --> 01:24:54,080 » If there's 20 units, >> we charge 1113 01:24:50,480 --> 01:24:59,360 20 base rates for those units. Um they're all in one meter. Um, and so 1114 01:24:57,520 --> 01:25:04,400 they get they get charged for each one of those units. Uh, I have apartments 1115 01:25:01,600 --> 01:25:09,920 where there's just two and they have one meter. They're charged two base rates, 1116 01:25:07,360 --> 01:25:14,560 one for each unit. Um, because it's a it's a totally different setup. 1117 01:25:11,840 --> 01:25:18,239 » I think this city has to recoup the the I mean, it's just an impact on the whole 1118 01:25:16,320 --> 01:25:22,719 city. So I don't have an issue >> that I this is might open a can of worms 1119 01:25:21,679 --> 01:25:25,719 but >> Don 1120 01:25:28,320 --> 01:25:37,040 said we should be looking at 1121 01:25:33,679 --> 01:25:43,080 a base. For example, if you have a 3000 foot home and [snorts] you're building 1122 01:25:39,120 --> 01:25:43,080 an 800 square foot, 1123 01:25:43,280 --> 01:25:50,324 you should be fractionalizing it and say, "Okay, based on the base of the 1124 01:25:48,480 --> 01:25:52,960 home, [snorts] 1125 01:25:50,960 --> 01:25:56,560 it should not be one unit. It should be a fraction. 1126 01:25:54,960 --> 01:25:59,560 » You're not going to have many people living." 1127 01:26:02,480 --> 01:26:10,159 He brings up a good point that we may want to make a square footage 1128 01:26:08,080 --> 01:26:15,040 benchmark for that because when you say 800 square foot back in the day 800 1129 01:26:12,159 --> 01:26:19,040 square foot was a normal house and could have separate service but if you've got 1130 01:26:16,639 --> 01:26:24,320 a four to five to 600 square foot we may want to consider you know doing at this 1131 01:26:22,239 --> 01:26:30,080 point the square footage over and above that then we can charge that fee. I 1132 01:26:28,320 --> 01:26:34,480 don't know. I I go back to Yeah, I think Scott your point is interesting that 1133 01:26:32,080 --> 01:26:37,920 like again it comes down back to why why are we treating a detach different than 1134 01:26:36,320 --> 01:26:45,120 a internal >> Well, I think I think um what Darren's 1135 01:26:42,080 --> 01:26:48,080 saying is like we have to we have to count like they still live in our city 1136 01:26:46,719 --> 01:26:51,520 and they still drive on the streets and we still have to clean the snow and we 1137 01:26:49,280 --> 01:26:55,120 still so we they have got to recoup some money because they're still living here, 1138 01:26:53,440 --> 01:27:00,239 right? Even if it's a smaller home, it's still [snorts] three or four people that 1139 01:26:56,320 --> 01:27:04,400 impact the city. And the city's got to make up for that. And they make up for a 1140 01:27:02,320 --> 01:27:11,360 whopping $125 bill. I >> I think some of that too is an internal 1141 01:27:07,760 --> 01:27:17,440 unit has already I will tell you they probably planned um maybe they had six 1142 01:27:14,880 --> 01:27:22,239 kids. Um, now they're down to just an older couple and they rent the basement 1143 01:27:19,920 --> 01:27:26,400 and they they rent it to two people or three people, small family trying to get 1144 01:27:24,000 --> 01:27:32,000 there. We're not exceeding what that main house was was built for. Um, now 1145 01:27:29,760 --> 01:27:37,600 you put a detached unit out in the back. Um, you still have six people possibly 1146 01:27:35,600 --> 01:27:43,040 and then you you're throwing another unit tightened into that. There there is 1147 01:27:39,840 --> 01:27:48,239 an impact to that. And is it a a calculation of size? Is it a calculation 1148 01:27:46,159 --> 01:27:52,639 in number of people? Um, >> but what if we charge impact fees up 1149 01:27:49,760 --> 01:27:56,480 front to cover that just so that it's consistent? 1150 01:27:55,040 --> 01:27:59,600 » I just think that it's hard like everyone's homes in the city are 1151 01:27:57,920 --> 01:28:02,080 different sizes and I get built the same as 1152 01:28:00,560 --> 01:28:07,199 » anyone like >> I mean that 1153 01:28:04,400 --> 01:28:10,199 that could be bad for some people. >> Yeah. 1154 01:28:15,280 --> 01:28:20,440 makes sense in the city. 1155 01:28:24,239 --> 01:28:27,880 » So I think we're 1156 01:28:29,040 --> 01:28:32,360 » I love it. 1157 01:28:33,120 --> 01:28:39,800 » Yeah. And really the impact should not cover. 1158 01:28:57,679 --> 01:29:03,840 » Well, maybe maybe I I I don't think we have an answer. Uh can I make a 1159 01:29:01,199 --> 01:29:06,159 suggestion that we just ask We'll work on that 1160 01:29:04,239 --> 01:29:09,360 » staff to work on it and come with some a few different options. 1161 01:29:07,520 --> 01:29:15,360 » Thank you. [snorts] >> Um, number six says that the city may 1162 01:29:12,639 --> 01:29:20,000 deny an application for a D-ADU if the utility service that constitutes a 1163 01:29:17,520 --> 01:29:25,440 system improvement and to which the DADU is required to connect lacks sufficient 1164 01:29:23,520 --> 01:29:30,400 capacity to support the addition of the DADU. That just furthers what kind of 1165 01:29:28,159 --> 01:29:36,000 what Darren was talking about. If the primary dwelling is served by a septic 1166 01:29:32,239 --> 01:29:42,480 tank, the DADU is prohibited. We do have a few septic tanks around the city. Not 1167 01:29:38,320 --> 01:29:47,600 many, but there's a few. Um um number seven, the determination of 1168 01:29:44,400 --> 01:29:52,639 adequate utility access or system capacity shall be made by the city 1169 01:29:49,920 --> 01:29:58,560 engineer, public works director, uh applicable utility provider, or other 1170 01:29:55,040 --> 01:30:01,560 city officials designated by the city. Um, 1171 01:30:05,360 --> 01:30:11,520 the applicant shall be responsible for constructing or providing any lawful 1172 01:30:09,760 --> 01:30:16,639 project improvements necessary to serve the DADU. Um, nothing in this chapter 1173 01:30:14,639 --> 01:30:23,520 requires the city to construct, enlarge, or fund a system improvement solely to 1174 01:30:19,280 --> 01:30:30,719 provide capacity for a proposed DADU. Um so this next section is talking about 1175 01:30:27,360 --> 01:30:35,920 conversion of existing uh structures. Um the owner of a legally constructed 1176 01:30:33,520 --> 01:30:41,120 accessory structure may apply to convert the accessory structure into a DADU. 1177 01:30:38,960 --> 01:30:45,280 Conversion of an existing accessory structure shall be reviewed 1178 01:30:43,760 --> 01:30:49,920 administratively. An accessory structure proposed for 1179 01:30:47,520 --> 01:30:54,800 conversion shall comply with applicable dwelling setback requirements. accessory 1180 01:30:52,320 --> 01:30:58,960 structure setback requirements, building codes, health codes, fire codes and 1181 01:30:56,960 --> 01:31:03,040 other requirements authorized by law. >> Can I say at the time of construction 1182 01:31:02,320 --> 01:31:05,679 so that >> Yes. 1183 01:31:03,600 --> 01:31:10,880 » Yeah. Okay. >> Yep. Can I just confirm too uh to 1184 01:31:08,480 --> 01:31:15,199 conversion of existing accessory structure to a DAU shall be reviewed 1185 01:31:13,440 --> 01:31:18,239 administratively? So are we saying that it that will not come before planning 1186 01:31:16,880 --> 01:31:19,920 commission? >> Yeah. 1187 01:31:18,639 --> 01:31:24,400 » Yep. It would not be. >> They handle it. So I I have a question. 1188 01:31:22,239 --> 01:31:27,520 If if we're going to say a garage was built and it only has a three-foot 1189 01:31:26,000 --> 01:31:30,000 setback doesn't 1190 01:31:28,320 --> 01:31:32,480 » it's now eligible for >> No. Well, at time of construction. 1191 01:31:32,000 --> 01:31:36,080 » Yeah. >> Right. So 1192 01:31:34,880 --> 01:31:39,679 » that's the right terminology. Right. >> Are you saying 1193 01:31:36,880 --> 01:31:43,920 » saying at what? Um under the conditions that exist currently. So at time of 1194 01:31:41,520 --> 01:31:47,040 construction, not in 1978 when it was built. 1195 01:31:44,800 --> 01:31:50,320 » Exactly. So you're saying that it needs to meet the codes as they are now. 1196 01:31:48,880 --> 01:31:52,159 » At time Yeah. At time of construction. Okay, that's what I thought. 1197 01:31:51,360 --> 01:31:55,440 » Okay, thank you. >> Of new construction. Maybe at time of 1198 01:31:53,679 --> 01:31:59,840 new construction. Yeah. So it's not grandfathered in at a foot off the fence 1199 01:31:58,880 --> 01:32:04,080 line. Yeah. >> Can I Is sorry. Going back to two. Is 1200 01:32:02,320 --> 01:32:08,280 there a reason why we wouldn't want that to come before planning commission? 1201 01:32:08,560 --> 01:32:14,560 » Well, you don't have the rest of it coming to you. So, do you want to see 1202 01:32:11,840 --> 01:32:19,360 that piece of it? I mean, I I I don't think we care. I guess this is well 1203 01:32:17,120 --> 01:32:22,320 » I mean that's why the ordinance well enough that they just 1204 01:32:22,000 --> 01:32:26,159 » figure >> I'm okay just it's just 1205 01:32:24,159 --> 01:32:29,840 » well that anybody that's doing that has to go through the normal permitting 1206 01:32:27,440 --> 01:32:34,159 process and go through the city to get permits for that and we don't get any of 1207 01:32:32,239 --> 01:32:38,880 those permits for new construction normally 1208 01:32:35,040 --> 01:32:45,440 » we just do dirt that land [snorts] >> so just theoretically let's say somebody 1209 01:32:42,320 --> 01:32:50,400 builds a garage let's say they build a very nice shed 1210 01:32:48,219 --> 01:32:56,159 [laughter] and then six months later they come and say actually it's a D AU. 1211 01:32:53,760 --> 01:33:00,320 What's the difference between that and building it? And I'm not argu I'm I'm 1212 01:32:58,560 --> 01:33:06,239 just trying to think through this in my own head. What would um 1213 01:33:04,800 --> 01:33:09,920 what would be the difference I guess and why would we not want that? Why why 1214 01:33:08,560 --> 01:33:14,239 would we want the first one? Like if they're building a DADU from scratch to 1215 01:33:12,239 --> 01:33:20,080 come before planning commission, but if they build a nice shed that they happen 1216 01:33:16,960 --> 01:33:22,560 to turn into a DADU in six months, why would that not come? 1217 01:33:20,800 --> 01:33:23,760 » The other one doesn't come before us, right? 1218 01:33:22,960 --> 01:33:27,360 » No, >> the the new one doesn't come before us 1219 01:33:25,760 --> 01:33:33,120 either. None of them do. >> Okay, great. I think to answer that a 1220 01:33:29,920 --> 01:33:41,840 little bit, Justin, um I I would tell you if somebody has one and they ever 1221 01:33:36,880 --> 01:33:44,239 didn't get a a certificate of occupancy, um 1222 01:33:42,639 --> 01:33:46,800 » they'd be pretty liable if there was a fire and someone got hurt or someone got 1223 01:33:45,840 --> 01:33:52,880 killed. >> Um they they could lose everything they 1224 01:33:49,679 --> 01:33:58,000 had at that point. Um, so I think that's part of going through the the process of 1225 01:33:55,360 --> 01:34:01,120 the site plan, the building plan, making sure we're meeting fire codes and doing 1226 01:33:59,679 --> 01:34:05,280 all that. So for someone to build something and then just come back and 1227 01:34:02,719 --> 01:34:10,880 say, "Hey, you know what? I told you I was building the garage, but now it's 1228 01:34:06,880 --> 01:34:15,760 this." Um, the the city wouldn't take the liability of saying, "Oh, yeah, go 1229 01:34:13,120 --> 01:34:18,610 ahead. You can live in there." >> Are you saying to that that might 1230 01:34:16,960 --> 01:34:20,480 circumvent the height restriction? [laughter] 1231 01:34:19,040 --> 01:34:22,880 » Yeah. if they build something that's compliant and they want to 1232 01:34:21,230 --> 01:34:27,120 [clears throat] convert it. >> The other thing, Justin, is the state 1233 01:34:25,120 --> 01:34:31,040 state law requires that these things be approved administratively, 1234 01:34:29,199 --> 01:34:37,199 » they can't. So, if you they come in here and you start putting conditions on 1235 01:34:32,639 --> 01:34:43,360 them, um that's not that's not legal. Either the conversion meets the building 1236 01:34:41,199 --> 01:34:48,560 code requirements or it doesn't. Well, and I think what what I'm hearing 1237 01:34:45,679 --> 01:34:52,239 Justin say is they don't come to us on each individual situation, but we're 1238 01:34:50,719 --> 01:34:55,679 kind of setting the ground rules right now. 1239 01:34:53,120 --> 01:34:59,600 » So, in in essence, we are setting the ground rules what everybody else will 1240 01:34:57,040 --> 01:35:04,560 need to conform to. So, I think it's just a matter of discussing and deciding 1241 01:35:01,600 --> 01:35:10,159 what we're willing overall to have the city sign off on and give permits for 1242 01:35:07,679 --> 01:35:15,280 that meets what um the planning commission set in motion. 1243 01:35:12,480 --> 01:35:19,760 » Y Okay, moving on. Uh number four, the 1244 01:35:18,159 --> 01:35:24,000 fact that an accessory structure was legally constructed does not by itself 1245 01:35:22,400 --> 01:35:29,360 establish that the structure complies with the requirements applicable uh to 1246 01:35:26,320 --> 01:35:33,199 residential occupancy. Uh five, the owner shall obtain all permits and 1247 01:35:31,440 --> 01:35:37,920 complete all improvements necessary to convert the structure to lawful 1248 01:35:36,239 --> 01:35:44,159 residential occupancy before the structure may be occupied as a DADU. 1249 01:35:41,040 --> 01:35:48,960 Uh, six, if the accessory structure is a detached garage, the owner shall provide 1250 01:35:46,800 --> 01:35:52,840 any replacement parking required under section 10A1-25. 1251 01:35:53,040 --> 01:36:01,040 Um, application and administrative review. Um, an owner seeking approval of 1252 01:35:58,880 --> 01:36:05,520 a DADU shall submit an application to the city on a form established by the 1253 01:36:02,800 --> 01:36:09,600 city. Um, the application may require information reasonably necessary to 1254 01:36:07,360 --> 01:36:14,639 determine compliance with this chapter, including a site plan showing existing 1255 01:36:12,159 --> 01:36:20,400 and proposed structures, um, property boundaries, building 1256 01:36:17,120 --> 01:36:25,280 setbacks, easements, proposed DADU floor area, building height and dimensions, 1257 01:36:22,400 --> 01:36:30,159 parking locations, utility connections, building plans as required by applicable 1258 01:36:27,679 --> 01:36:33,280 building codes, evidence that the existing single family dwelling and any 1259 01:36:32,000 --> 01:36:39,840 structure proposed for conversion version were legally established and an 1260 01:36:36,320 --> 01:36:45,199 owner occupancy certification. Um, number three, the land use authority 1261 01:36:43,520 --> 01:36:51,440 shall approve an application that complies with this chapter and other 1262 01:36:47,280 --> 01:36:56,080 applicable law. Um, four, the land use authority may deny an application only 1263 01:36:54,159 --> 01:37:00,320 upon determining that the application fails to comply with an applicable 1264 01:36:58,239 --> 01:37:05,760 requirement of this chapter, the city code or state or federal law. Five, a 1265 01:37:03,760 --> 01:37:10,159 denial shall identify the basis for denial with 1266 01:37:07,679 --> 01:37:14,560 sufficient specificity to allow the applicant to determine the requirements 1267 01:37:11,840 --> 01:37:22,800 necessary for approval. Um so separate ownership and subdivision 1268 01:37:19,119 --> 01:37:27,760 prohibited a DADU shall remain accessory to the primary dwelling and shall not be 1269 01:37:25,440 --> 01:37:32,239 one separately divided from the primary dwelling, two separately conveyed from 1270 01:37:29,760 --> 01:37:38,239 the primary dwelling or three converted into a separate legal lot or parcel. Um 1271 01:37:35,520 --> 01:37:42,080 except as otherwise expressly permitted by applicable state law and city 1272 01:37:39,920 --> 01:37:47,280 subdivision ordinances. um compliance and enforcement. A DADU 1273 01:37:45,280 --> 01:37:52,000 shall at all times be maintained and occupied in compliance with the ch with 1274 01:37:49,119 --> 01:37:56,239 this chapter and other political laws. Um 1275 01:37:53,520 --> 01:38:00,159 the establishment or occupancy of a DADU contrary to this chapter constitutes a 1276 01:37:58,080 --> 01:38:04,159 violation of city code and may be enforced through any civil, 1277 01:38:01,520 --> 01:38:08,880 administrative or remedy available to the city. uh enforcement of this chapter 1278 01:38:07,119 --> 01:38:15,440 shall be conducted in accordance with applicable state law. And the last one, 1279 01:38:12,000 --> 01:38:18,639 existing development agreements. I'm not sure about this. I got to talk to the 1280 01:38:17,040 --> 01:38:24,000 attorney about this. Nothing in this chapter supersedes a prohibition or 1281 01:38:22,000 --> 01:38:28,159 restriction on detached accessory dwelling units 1282 01:38:26,000 --> 01:38:34,320 um contained in a development agreement signed by the city own or before May 6, 1283 01:38:30,639 --> 01:38:39,440 2026 to the extent the prohibition or restriction is protected by Utah code 1284 01:38:37,600 --> 01:38:44,239 1021304. I'm not exactly sure what that he put 1285 01:38:41,520 --> 01:38:49,199 that in there. Um, I've got to clarify exact I I think it just means if there 1286 01:38:46,080 --> 01:38:56,000 was a development agreement before May 6, 2026 1287 01:38:51,520 --> 01:39:00,080 that um they're still valid. Um I I I don't I don't know exactly what that 1288 01:38:58,000 --> 01:39:03,360 means. Would we want to also include in that wording and get the advice from the 1289 01:39:01,679 --> 01:39:08,880 attorney whether there's anything with any subdivision or development CCNRs or 1290 01:39:05,920 --> 01:39:15,920 or HOA bylaws to make sure there's, >> you know, does it supersede or does it 1291 01:39:12,320 --> 01:39:18,960 um prior to 2026 allow those to remain in place? 1292 01:39:16,960 --> 01:39:25,440 » Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. I made a note of that. And 1293 01:39:21,600 --> 01:39:28,960 then the last thing, um, uh, just other considerations, 1294 01:39:27,199 --> 01:39:33,119 uh, Darren and I talked about, it probably would be a good idea if you're 1295 01:39:30,639 --> 01:39:36,480 going to do this to have a fenced yard. Um, if you're going to put a DADU in 1296 01:39:35,040 --> 01:39:43,199 your backyard, you probably should have a fenced yard. Um, and then two, and 1297 01:39:41,360 --> 01:39:47,440 this is a can of worms that I don't know, this why I kept it separate. Do we 1298 01:39:45,679 --> 01:39:52,800 want to go down this road trying to define what occupancy what levels of 1299 01:39:49,840 --> 01:39:57,040 occupancy mean? We've never done this up to this point. It's it it's very 1300 01:39:55,840 --> 01:40:01,280 difficult. >> Um and and even more difficult to 1301 01:40:00,159 --> 01:40:05,840 enforce, >> but there's other cities that have gone 1302 01:40:04,239 --> 01:40:11,840 down this road. >> I don't know if we want to try that. I'm 1303 01:40:09,280 --> 01:40:15,360 fine on the like you can only rent one like if you leave a family member can 1304 01:40:13,440 --> 01:40:21,920 live on the home, right? Someone can live there. That's not you can't double. 1305 01:40:18,159 --> 01:40:24,880 I think that's as specific as we get. Do people have thoughts on that or I don't 1306 01:40:24,080 --> 01:40:28,560 know. >> Just so everybody understands what I'm 1307 01:40:26,480 --> 01:40:32,719 talking about. We're talking about, you know, a definition like three 1308 01:40:30,000 --> 01:40:36,480 individuals that are non-related, an individual single family related by 1309 01:40:34,639 --> 01:40:43,040 blood, marriage, legal, guardianship. Um, you know, on and on. Um, those lines 1310 01:40:40,400 --> 01:40:46,320 are getting very blurry these days. >> Yeah. Um, 1311 01:40:44,080 --> 01:40:48,480 » I think you just >> Yeah, I wouldn't 1312 01:40:47,679 --> 01:40:50,000 » can only write one. >> I don't. Yeah. 1313 01:40:49,600 --> 01:40:54,320 » No, >> you can only read one. 1314 01:40:52,080 --> 01:40:58,800 » Have an opinion. >> Okay. What else? Well, where like let's 1315 01:40:57,280 --> 01:41:02,880 can we just do a refresh of where we feel like we have points of differences 1316 01:41:01,119 --> 01:41:07,040 and maybe that's where we need to focus. It sounds like the setback, but we might 1317 01:41:05,440 --> 01:41:11,040 all be willing to do something that's like meets the code, right? If it's 1318 01:41:08,639 --> 01:41:14,880 Nate, but setback then the houses. If it's 10, it's 10. I 1319 01:41:12,800 --> 01:41:20,800 » I really like Justin's idea. I don't know people's thoughts on that. 1320 01:41:16,560 --> 01:41:24,080 » The other is the height. Um are any of us saying they want you're 1321 01:41:22,719 --> 01:41:26,239 saying you would be willing to do two stories? Who's saying that? I don't 1322 01:41:25,840 --> 01:41:31,040 know. >> I I definitely am looking. We need to 1323 01:41:28,480 --> 01:41:37,440 have something that allows for a detached garage, whatever that setback, 1324 01:41:33,760 --> 01:41:43,679 sideyard setback would be, but but limit it not to a full twotory. Do it as a a 1325 01:41:40,800 --> 01:41:46,080 what they call a one and a half story. Um, 1326 01:41:44,159 --> 01:41:48,480 » so in your mind, what's that height? >> Yeah. What's the height? 1327 01:41:47,119 --> 01:41:52,000 » What's that height in your mind? >> I I would have to compute it out. If you 1328 01:41:50,000 --> 01:41:55,760 have a 1012 pitch on a and it depends on the size of building. If it's a 24 x 24, 1329 01:41:54,480 --> 01:41:59,840 you just got to divide it out. If you have a 1012 pitch, the rise is 10 inches 1330 01:41:58,320 --> 01:42:02,719 per every 12 inches. So, >> right, 1331 01:42:01,280 --> 01:42:07,119 » let us do some work on that. >> Yeah, I mean 35 I think is 1332 01:42:06,080 --> 01:42:11,520 way too high. >> Yeah, they're thinking 20. 1333 01:42:09,040 --> 01:42:16,800 » My only concern is again if we can have a if somebody can have a 35 foot 1334 01:42:14,145 --> 01:42:20,639 [clears throat] shed next door, why couldn't they have a 35 foot DADU? 1335 01:42:19,679 --> 01:42:23,360 » Right. like, >> well, I'm going to put something else 1336 01:42:21,920 --> 01:42:29,520 out there that doesn't even relate to this. 35 ft is also an antiquated amount 1337 01:42:25,840 --> 01:42:34,560 these days with the height of homes. >> So, that actually needs to be modified 1338 01:42:31,679 --> 01:42:40,639 as well in our code along with probably a couple other things, but um I think 1339 01:42:38,560 --> 01:42:45,920 there needs to be a height requirement if it's not attached 1340 01:42:43,360 --> 01:42:50,639 um for the very same reason. Let's say you have a a twostory home with a a 10 1341 01:42:48,639 --> 01:42:53,840 12 pitch roof, the primary residence, which there are plenty of those in the 1342 01:42:52,080 --> 01:42:59,280 in the city. If you do a detached structure that's only a a 20 by 20 and 1343 01:42:56,320 --> 01:43:01,679 it's that tall, it is going to look strange. 1344 01:42:59,840 --> 01:43:04,800 » Sure. But we also say that it has to follow something to the effect that it 1345 01:43:03,679 --> 01:43:07,600 has to follow the >> similar construction 1346 01:43:05,600 --> 01:43:12,800 » similar construction and architecture. >> Well, all that means is materials. And I 1347 01:43:10,639 --> 01:43:17,840 have that in my subdivision the same. It's the CCNRs that you know, you want 1348 01:43:14,800 --> 01:43:20,960 it to to make it look as much like the uh rockets 1349 01:43:18,880 --> 01:43:26,880 » as the primary structure. Now, in the older subdivisions and older homes, 1350 01:43:22,960 --> 01:43:31,760 that's going to be harder to do. >> Yeah. 1351 01:43:28,239 --> 01:43:36,400 » So, and brings my next question. and Darren and Jeff, can we have another 1352 01:43:33,920 --> 01:43:41,840 just a work meeting to where we can get together as a commission with the city 1353 01:43:39,040 --> 01:43:46,960 and talk about all these things so we we can come up with suggestions for the for 1354 01:43:43,920 --> 01:43:49,119 the city uh citizens to hear at our next meeting. 1355 01:43:47,360 --> 01:43:52,159 » Yeah, I think that's a good idea >> because it's there's a lot to talk 1356 01:43:51,040 --> 01:43:53,360 through in my opinion. >> Yeah. 1357 01:43:52,880 --> 01:43:57,360 » Yeah. >> Are are people required to have a 1358 01:43:54,719 --> 01:44:01,520 business license to have a DADU and rent it out? Is that it doesn't where does it 1359 01:44:00,159 --> 01:44:06,800 doesn't really say anything in here about that does it 1360 01:44:05,440 --> 01:44:12,239 » about [clears throat] sorry >> that they would fill out a a a per an 1361 01:44:11,199 --> 01:44:15,322 application >> okay it's I 1362 01:44:13,440 --> 01:44:19,360 » I don't know if there that be associated [clears throat] with a fee 1363 01:44:17,600 --> 01:44:22,719 » I mean that's still to be determined >> okay see I didn't think 1364 01:44:20,639 --> 01:44:26,560 » there would be an application process >> okay okay because that seems like it 1365 01:44:25,119 --> 01:44:29,280 would bring some accountability there's some in here where it's says something 1366 01:44:28,239 --> 01:44:32,000 to be effective. There must be accountability 1367 01:44:30,080 --> 01:44:35,280 » internal to use. We require >> Yeah. 1368 01:44:32,560 --> 01:44:38,560 » I I don't know what the fee is. >> I don't think we call it a business. 1369 01:44:37,440 --> 01:44:42,920 » Yeah. It's just like, >> but it's a license to have 1370 01:44:44,797 --> 01:44:46,817 [clears throat] 1371 01:44:53,840 --> 01:44:59,119 » and they put on there. 1372 01:45:10,400 --> 01:45:21,239 Well, the whole idea behind that is is that not breaking these off and selling 1373 01:45:16,480 --> 01:45:21,239 them as separate units. That's the idea. 1374 01:45:26,800 --> 01:45:30,639 We we we can take a look. >> They allow you to sell them separately 1375 01:45:29,600 --> 01:45:35,560 in Eastman. >> Yeah. I mean, if somebody had 1376 01:45:32,000 --> 01:45:35,560 » a whole different animal. 1377 01:45:36,320 --> 01:45:39,800 » Yeah, that's fair. 1378 01:45:41,679 --> 01:45:49,199 » You would still just subdivide it and the home and the DADU would be one lot 1379 01:45:47,119 --> 01:45:53,600 in that subdivision. Like you does that make sense? Like the DADU and the home 1380 01:45:51,520 --> 01:45:57,840 would be on a lot if you were to subdivide it and everything else. You 1381 01:45:55,119 --> 01:46:00,800 can't separate it from it. >> Correct. 1382 01:45:58,239 --> 01:46:02,880 » Well, that's hopefully someone does it. >> Yeah. 1383 01:46:01,119 --> 01:46:05,880 » I mean, you if not, you're tearing it down. 1384 01:46:07,440 --> 01:46:12,159 » Yeah. >> No, I I think that's a good point to 1385 01:46:09,520 --> 01:46:12,159 look into. 1386 01:46:22,800 --> 01:46:31,280 Yeah. >> Yeah. It wouldn't prevent somebody from 1387 01:46:27,679 --> 01:46:36,320 dividing bigger lots um if there was enough room. But um you do not want to 1388 01:46:33,840 --> 01:46:40,733 go down that road where you're selling these things as separate units. 1389 01:46:38,960 --> 01:46:42,753 That's [clears throat] 1390 01:46:46,880 --> 01:46:53,040 » lot size all that. >> Yeah. 1391 01:46:51,520 --> 01:46:56,719 » I mean, if in the end someone wanted to subdivide it and their DADU is far away, 1392 01:46:54,880 --> 01:47:01,040 they would just tear it down. There's more value in I mean, they would just 1393 01:46:59,119 --> 01:47:05,159 tear it down. >> But I will take a look at that. 1394 01:47:08,243 --> 01:47:10,263 » [snorts and sighs] 1395 01:47:12,239 --> 01:47:19,679 » It said mobile homes. Mobile homes and >> and uh shipping containers. 1396 01:47:17,199 --> 01:47:24,000 » Yeah. Yeah. I mean it does this would allow a tiny home. I mean we're saying 1397 01:47:22,320 --> 01:47:27,000 anything that's bigger than 400 square feet. 1398 01:47:28,639 --> 01:47:34,639 » But it would have to be similar to the existing home. So you I mean 1399 01:47:32,880 --> 01:47:39,440 » Well, I'm not questioning that. I'm just We have 1400 01:47:37,600 --> 01:47:44,880 » I don't think that's a thing. >> Doesn't it doesn't it say something? 1401 01:47:43,119 --> 01:47:47,360 » It did say something in here. It did say something in here right away. 1402 01:47:45,760 --> 01:47:51,280 » If it complies with all codes, then why why why wouldn't you be able to bring a 1403 01:47:49,040 --> 01:47:54,280 prefab in? >> Yeah. 1404 01:47:54,960 --> 01:48:01,520 » So, when they when they uh build those prefab homes, um they go through an 1405 01:47:59,920 --> 01:48:04,080 inspection process >> and and they're signed off by an 1406 01:48:03,119 --> 01:48:08,199 engineer. Yeah. >> Say it meant these points. 1407 01:48:09,040 --> 01:48:13,920 » Yeah. >> Right. And look similar. 1408 01:48:11,840 --> 01:48:18,000 » This is a small thing, but under design, we should probably address things like 1409 01:48:15,360 --> 01:48:22,239 balconies, decks, and patios. >> Um, yes, I think that is a good idea. 1410 01:48:21,440 --> 01:48:24,880 Um, >> and then also, I know we we've talked 1411 01:48:23,760 --> 01:48:28,639 about this in the past and I don't know if it really went anywhere, but I think 1412 01:48:26,560 --> 01:48:33,440 the total kind of lot density, the lot coverage as a whole should also be 1413 01:48:30,400 --> 01:48:37,600 considered. So, you know, if you're a primary residence, you have a detached 1414 01:48:35,360 --> 01:48:41,199 garage, you have a DADU, you you know, you have a shed, and you have other 1415 01:48:38,880 --> 01:48:47,600 things. I think that saying holistically like our, you know, like in Salt Lake, 1416 01:48:42,560 --> 01:48:50,400 your lot can't be more than 40% built. >> It does say that, 1417 01:48:48,639 --> 01:48:55,119 » but that's just the just the back though >> from the rear line all the way back. 1418 01:48:54,000 --> 01:48:57,520 » You know, I think that there's other ways of 1419 01:48:55,600 --> 01:49:02,400 » you can't fill up more than 50% of your backyard. But if if you have a sideyard 1420 01:49:00,239 --> 01:49:06,239 and you're building accessory buildings or something, right, don't build more 1421 01:49:04,159 --> 01:49:11,760 than 40% of your lot >> so it doesn't become too dense as a 1422 01:49:09,040 --> 01:49:17,280 whole. >> Do you want that to be looked at more 1423 01:49:15,199 --> 01:49:20,400 than what we've our ordinance already calls for? 1424 01:49:18,639 --> 01:49:24,159 » I think that we it was brought up a long time ago and I don't I don't know if it 1425 01:49:22,560 --> 01:49:28,960 maybe just something to talk about, right? Maybe it's not just a rear a rear 1426 01:49:27,119 --> 01:49:32,560 coverage, but a whole lot coverage, >> a total lot coverage. 1427 01:49:30,239 --> 01:49:36,639 » I would we would we almost just go back and I can't remember which uh there 1428 01:49:35,440 --> 01:49:43,199 there's something specific that we talked about that. Oh, it was the pool. 1429 01:49:40,000 --> 01:49:48,800 » It can't be more than 50% impervious, right? So like pool cement, everything. 1430 01:49:45,840 --> 01:49:53,040 We decided it's too hard to deal with the sides and nothing's in the front. I 1431 01:49:51,679 --> 01:49:58,960 mean, we don't allow anything in the front. And some people's sideyards are 1432 01:49:56,000 --> 01:50:02,239 their yards, but I just don't I mean, how many I don't know. I don't 1433 01:50:01,280 --> 01:50:05,760 » know how many is. >> I wonder if that would be completely 1434 01:50:03,840 --> 01:50:09,679 separate than this just because this is specific to 1435 01:50:07,440 --> 01:50:12,639 » um if you add on to the primary home >> backyard can't have more than that. 1436 01:50:11,119 --> 01:50:15,119 » You can add on to the front of a primary home 1437 01:50:13,600 --> 01:50:17,520 » and add square footage on the front of it. And then 1438 01:50:15,920 --> 01:50:20,719 » as long as you can meet the setback. >> Yeah. As long as you're in the setback. 1439 01:50:18,719 --> 01:50:24,719 » Meet that setback. But yeah, you can't. you have to stay, 1440 01:50:22,080 --> 01:50:29,119 » but kind of the idea that, you know, building your entire lot within the 1441 01:50:26,880 --> 01:50:33,679 setbacks, you want to kind of still maintain some um some open space, 1442 01:50:32,320 --> 01:50:36,159 » I guess, right? Yeah. Right. Now, theoretically, you could build out to 1443 01:50:35,119 --> 01:50:37,360 your setbacks and be fine >> in your front yard. 1444 01:50:37,040 --> 01:50:41,040 » Yeah. >> Yeah. So, yes, we've kind of m 1445 01:50:39,440 --> 01:50:44,159 controlled the backyard, but what about there's other ways to densify on your 1446 01:50:42,960 --> 01:50:46,239 lot? I don't know if it's a huge issue here, 1447 01:50:45,600 --> 01:50:48,159 but >> yeah, 1448 01:50:46,719 --> 01:50:51,360 » every other city that I've done a project in, there's always a lot 1449 01:50:49,600 --> 01:50:55,360 coverage requirement. >> Um, are you saying don't build these in 1450 01:50:54,320 --> 01:50:58,800 the front yard? >> No, I'm just saying in general instead 1451 01:50:56,880 --> 01:51:02,639 of having just a rear yard >> says don't build them in the front yard. 1452 01:51:00,080 --> 01:51:07,600 » A rear yard coverage requirement. So 50% of your your backyard can only be built 1453 01:51:05,119 --> 01:51:12,080 to ch maybe change that and say let's make it holistic. Let's say the entire 1454 01:51:10,400 --> 01:51:15,600 your entire property you can only build 40% of it. 1455 01:51:13,840 --> 01:51:19,760 Okay, we'll look at that. >> Maybe that opens up a lot. 1456 01:51:19,119 --> 01:51:24,880 » Um, >> what [clears throat] 1457 01:51:22,400 --> 01:51:26,239 » the other things I had was um >> decks patios, 1458 01:51:25,920 --> 01:51:30,159 » um, >> roof decks, 1459 01:51:29,040 --> 01:51:32,560 » uh, >> balconies, decks, patios, 1460 01:51:31,199 --> 01:51:34,159 » frosted glass on >> frosted glass 1461 01:51:33,280 --> 01:51:37,760 » only on >> clear stories. Yeah. 1462 01:51:35,360 --> 01:51:41,840 » You know, above six feet. Um 1463 01:51:39,440 --> 01:51:48,239 the short-term exception for people that are out of town on some kind of calling 1464 01:51:46,880 --> 01:51:53,040 um >> but not to rent it like double rent it 1465 01:51:50,719 --> 01:51:59,520 just family can there >> um 1466 01:51:55,520 --> 01:52:06,199 uh take out the provisions for power and gas on on a single meter. Um, 1467 01:52:06,880 --> 01:52:13,880 look at the square footage benchmark for monthly utility bills. 1468 01:52:13,920 --> 01:52:20,800 » Take out the bedroom requirement >> a studio for a studio. 1469 01:52:19,280 --> 01:52:26,560 » Yeah. >> Um, 1470 01:52:23,520 --> 01:52:32,080 was there anything else? Put in something about having a fence that your 1471 01:52:28,960 --> 01:52:35,840 backyard's got to be fenced. the the address you'd have one A and one B. 1472 01:52:35,040 --> 01:52:40,320 » Yeah, >> we'll put that in there. 1473 01:52:38,320 --> 01:52:44,400 » The decks and balconies, if it's single story, no one's going to have a balcony, 1474 01:52:42,560 --> 01:52:48,320 » right? I'm just saying even if it's a >> like if it's a flat roof, you know, they 1475 01:52:46,239 --> 01:52:54,000 could have a roof deck. >> I mean, I'm still not opposed to dual 1476 01:52:51,440 --> 01:52:57,440 story. Again, I just keep coming and that's why I say, can we can we talk 1477 01:52:56,000 --> 01:53:01,920 about setting a time where we can get together and have a work meeting on this 1478 01:52:59,199 --> 01:53:06,239 and and fine-tuning this for >> you on what we come up with. And I 1479 01:53:04,639 --> 01:53:09,920 wanted to address one other thing. There's a group of citizens of Fruit 1480 01:53:08,320 --> 01:53:14,880 Heights that put this. We all got these packets and they're more or less all 1481 01:53:12,880 --> 01:53:18,719 their suggestions for us all to look at this and go over everything we've talked 1482 01:53:16,800 --> 01:53:23,040 about tonight and just let them know that we're going to review those as well 1483 01:53:20,800 --> 01:53:28,000 and see if that any of this fits into where we've already talked about. So we 1484 01:53:26,400 --> 01:53:33,599 » and I think a lot of it does align with what the city I think it's really close. 1485 01:53:30,719 --> 01:53:39,440 So, >> okay. Well, Darren and I will we'll 1486 01:53:35,679 --> 01:53:44,960 we'll set up another work meeting. >> So, Haley's already asking. Um, 1487 01:53:43,280 --> 01:53:47,119 » do we want to look at calendars now? Is that what we're doing? 1488 01:53:45,679 --> 01:53:53,520 » Yeah, look at your look at your calendars. Um, we could do a we could do 1489 01:53:50,080 --> 01:53:56,800 a work session. Um, >> Wednesday the 16th. 1490 01:53:55,040 --> 01:54:00,239 » Wednesday the 16th. That would give a couple few days before the public 1491 01:53:59,520 --> 01:54:04,480 hearing. >> That's a week from tomorrow. 1492 01:54:01,840 --> 01:54:10,320 » It's a week from tomorrow. It gives everybody time to go through what 1493 01:54:05,920 --> 01:54:14,320 information's out there. Um >> and gives Jeff and I time to kind of go 1494 01:54:12,560 --> 01:54:15,679 through those questions that you've asked us today. 1495 01:54:15,440 --> 01:54:19,360 » Yeah. >> Um and get 1496 01:54:17,040 --> 01:54:22,719 » 16th. Yeah, that's fine. We can do it or 1497 01:54:21,199 --> 01:54:28,000 Thursday. Wednesday or Thursday. I >> I don't know how early anybody can get 1498 01:54:24,159 --> 01:54:31,520 here. Um, so depending on how early you get here, we could do it earlier 1499 01:54:29,920 --> 01:54:33,520 » and do a work session >> at 6. 1500 01:54:32,560 --> 01:54:35,599 » At six. >> Yeah, I could do 1501 01:54:34,639 --> 01:54:39,040 » I'm good at six. >> I could do six. 1502 01:54:36,719 --> 01:54:42,400 » Six is fine. I can do anytime after 4 probably. 1503 01:54:40,320 --> 01:54:47,280 » So if you if you if six o'clock works for the 16th um 1504 01:54:45,280 --> 01:54:48,960 » Haley will put that together. We'll do it as a work session. 1505 01:54:48,560 --> 01:54:53,040 » Okay. >> So that we can just sit down and discuss 1506 01:54:50,639 --> 01:54:56,880 everything that we've got and go through the process. I can't do the 16th. I 1507 01:54:55,040 --> 01:54:59,199 apologize. Sorry. >> But 1508 01:54:57,679 --> 01:55:01,360 » I could do the 17th. I could do Thursday. 1509 01:54:59,679 --> 01:55:02,480 » That's fine. >> Thursday. 1510 01:55:01,760 --> 01:55:05,920 » I'm good. >> Anytime. 1511 01:55:03,199 --> 01:55:11,360 » 14th. Like that Monday. >> The 14th is Monday. 1512 01:55:08,320 --> 01:55:12,800 » I could do the 14th. >> Pretty fast. 1513 01:55:12,239 --> 01:55:18,880 » Yeah. >> Yeah. Pretty fast. 1514 01:55:14,719 --> 01:55:21,599 » I could do the 14th. 15th. 17th. >> I can't do this. I need 1515 01:55:20,239 --> 01:55:25,040 » Let's go 17th. >> Thursday. Well, I could do the 17th of 1516 01:55:23,199 --> 01:55:26,960 at 6:00 and I have to leave at 7:00. I just have a commitment at 7:00, but I 1517 01:55:26,480 --> 01:55:28,719 can come. >> Let's try that. 1518 01:55:27,599 --> 01:55:30,480 » 55 minutes. >> Do we 1519 01:55:29,280 --> 01:55:32,560 » Thursday >> the 17th at 6? 1520 01:55:31,440 --> 01:55:35,119 » Do we want to try? >> We can do 5:30, too. If that works. 1521 01:55:34,320 --> 01:55:39,679 » 5:30 is fine. >> I I could I will commit to being here. 1522 01:55:37,760 --> 01:55:42,000 » Sorry. I just have another thing at 7. >> 5. 1523 01:55:40,159 --> 01:55:45,280 » So, let's do 5:30. >> 5:30 on the 17th. 1524 01:55:43,599 --> 01:55:50,360 » All right. >> Okay. 1525 01:55:47,119 --> 01:55:50,360 Got that? 1526 01:55:51,040 --> 01:55:56,080 » Yeah. Yeah, the public can come to a work session. It's just no comments. It 1527 01:55:54,560 --> 01:56:02,639 It's just giving them a chance to go through everything again. Um that gives 1528 01:55:58,480 --> 01:56:09,119 us time to get a document out 24 hours before the public hearing. Um 1529 01:56:06,400 --> 01:56:13,840 so but but that's fine. We we can get it out probably that Friday um if we have 1530 01:56:11,679 --> 01:56:15,920 time to to go through it. So >> So we just need to come prepared to make 1531 01:56:15,599 --> 01:56:19,199 decision. >> Very prepared. Yeah. 1532 01:56:17,360 --> 01:56:24,639 » Yeah. >> And you're going to work up some Yeah. 1533 01:56:21,520 --> 01:56:28,880 And we'll try to get that out to you as early as we can. But [clears throat] 1534 01:56:27,199 --> 01:56:35,520 yeah, that's just barely a week away from tomorrow or two days. Yeah. 1535 01:56:32,239 --> 01:56:38,560 » But the city council can still I mean they we can say one thing and 1536 01:56:37,119 --> 01:56:40,080 they'll say, "Yeah, we're not doing that." 1537 01:56:38,880 --> 01:56:42,560 » Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. 1538 01:56:40,880 --> 01:56:45,040 » But we don't know where they fall on any of this. 1539 01:56:43,280 --> 01:56:48,320 » So this is an ordinance. We'll have our we we do our work session on this next 1540 01:56:47,040 --> 01:56:51,040 meeting on the >> I'm just saying it doesn't give much 1541 01:56:50,000 --> 01:56:54,719 time to change things >> and then we'll have our public hearing 1542 01:56:52,560 --> 01:56:58,639 that following week >> um after the public hearing. It'll be 1543 01:56:56,960 --> 01:57:02,960 your recommendation for any changes at that time or anything that you want to 1544 01:57:01,280 --> 01:57:04,480 do and then we'll forward that on >> they're going to have to have a work 1545 01:57:03,840 --> 01:57:10,080 session >> um city council for their next meeting 1546 01:57:07,440 --> 01:57:13,080 » on the 28th 29th. >> Elizabeth 1547 01:57:23,599 --> 01:57:27,159 at the same time. 1548 01:57:30,080 --> 01:57:33,960 » Parking might be a little tight. 1549 01:57:45,760 --> 01:57:53,199 Okay, we'll look at that, too. >> Um, the the only thing I I I noticed the 1550 01:57:50,800 --> 01:57:55,599 minutes from our 8:25 meeting is not on the agenda. Do we 1551 01:57:55,040 --> 01:58:03,199 » Oh, yeah. >> Do we want to take care of those next? 1552 01:58:00,480 --> 01:58:09,520 » Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's a special meeting. >> Sorry. Okay. 1553 01:58:04,560 --> 01:58:13,280 » It's a special. Do we need a motion to >> I motion to close the meeting? 1554 01:58:11,840 --> 01:58:16,639 » I second. >> All in favor, please say yes. 1555 01:58:15,280 --> 01:58:20,719 » Yes. >> Motion carried. Thank you, 1556 01:58:18,159 --> 01:58:20,719 » Mark.