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All right, good evening. If I can ask, uh, the public to be seated. We

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will go ahead and, uh, begin with our,

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um, regular council meeting, um, which is delayed

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one week, uh, as a result of the storm, but we will be begin

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on january 23rd, 2024 at

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5:30 pm we do have a

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quorum of council present. In fact, um, I'm, we're, we're

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all here. And, uh, so we look forward to tonight's meeting.

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uh, at this time, I would invite, uh, mr. Paul cartwright,

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a full church of christ to come and lead us in our invocation. Uh,

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appreciate you and the work church christ does in our community. Um,

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if you all would stand and, uh, we'll follow up with the pledges.

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praise god. Thank you for today.

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thank you for another,

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the city council. Father, so much

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rise. Thank father

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for the opportunity.

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thank you, paul. If you would join me in the pledge to the us flag

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pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america,

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and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under

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god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all,

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and the texas honor, the texas flag

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of whether to texas, one state

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under god. One .

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you may be seated.

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this time. We'll take citizens' comments. Uh, this is an opportunity

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for citizens to speak to counsel relating to agenda and non-ag agenda items. Speakers

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are advised that comments cannot be received on matters, which are subject of a public hearing. Once that hearing

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has been closed, speakers are required to register in advance of must limit, but their

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comments to three minutes, we would ask. So ask that you state your

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name and address for the city secretary. Um, at this time,

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I would invite mr. Don elder.

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good evening mayor and mayor prote and

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city council. It's pleasure for me to be here. Uh,

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y'all did a great thing in, in this facility that you just

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recently gotten into, and it's a, a, a big, uh, step,

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but you, you made that step. We did it in katy, where

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I was mayor, uh, about five years ago too. So,

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uh, we were crowded, we were nearly cubicles,

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and, uh, we decided we needed to get our people out there. And so

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we did. I'm here just to thank you as a, as a, uh,

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person, a consultant for purch, uh, pca

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purchasing cooperative of america. We do all kinds of,

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uh, purchase co-op, uh, contracts, and we do

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'em in, in cities, schools, uh, counties,

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uh, universities, colleges, 5 0 1

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threes, private schools, charter schools, and even in

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churches. So, uh, we just appreciate y'all joining

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and, uh, if we can help you with anything, we'll be glad to do that. Uh,

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I've been in this business for about 25 years, so, uh,

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it's, uh, been very, uh, enlightening and you learn

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a lot. So it's, uh, good to be here with you tonight.

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and, uh, we thank you for letting me give you the opportunity

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to speak. Thank you. Thank you, don. Appreciate it. Mm-hmm. .

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mr. Mon ridge, I would like to speak on,

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uh, the tree next to the beach.

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can we hold till the item,

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uh, that's at your discretion, mayor. Okay. We'll hold till the item, um,

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uh, just confirming, it looks like mr. Clifford posted yes, and

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then marked it out. Just make sure you don't wanna speak. Are we good? Okay.

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um, moving on to ms. Ana erland.

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good evening mayor. Um, wonderful council members and

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the staff for doing such a good job with the city of re. That's all I wanna say.

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thank you so much. I know your job can be thankless at times, but you represent

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us well. Thank you. Thank you,

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ms. K call.

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good evening, uh, mayor and counsel. Uh, my name is kay collick. I live

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at 27 7 0 2 rocky creek court, uh, in shore.

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uh, I noticed on consent item k, there was nothing, uh, in the

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online packet about that. And assuming it stays on the agenda

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and y'all don't skip over it for whatever reason, I was just hoping when you get to that item,

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uh, maybe you could share with those of us here a little bit about what

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that item is about. Thank you. Thank you, ms. Gay.

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alright. Um, before that is all who signed up

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for, uh, citizens' comments. However, I do have a proclamation I'd

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like to read, uh, and a presentation, uh, to follow

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fort bend county district attorney's community awareness team, national human trafficking prevention

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month proclamation, whereas human trafficking is a public health issue

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and a crime that exploits the most vulnerable among us and weakness the

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health and wellbeing of, of individuals, families, and communities across generations.

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whereas human trafficking is the recruitment, transportation transfer, harboring

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or receipt of people through force fraud or coercion to exploit

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them for profit. Whereas an estimated 27.6 million people

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are subjected subject to human

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trafficking globally, including cases of human trafficking reported in every

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us state and territory. Whereas human trafficking can happen to anyone,

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but specific populations are disproportionately at risk, including people

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affected by abuse, violence, poverty, unstable living conditions, social disconnection

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or discrimination. Whereas people can be trafficked in person and

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online in industries such as restaurants, domestic work, construction, agriculture,

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and factories, and by strangers or someone they know, including employers, partners,

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and family members. Whereas human trafficking can be prevented by building individual

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community and social understanding and resil resilience,

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redu reducing social inequities, and addressing the condition that contribute to exploitation.

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whereas the fort bend county district attorney human trafficking community awareness

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team has a mission to build awareness within the community on how they recognize,

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report, and prevent human traffick. Whereas a successful

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response to human trafficking requires a coordinated community-wide effort, whereas

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people who have been, have experienced human trafficking have relevant perspectives

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and expertise and will engage in the collaborate, collaborate with them to develop and

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strengthen trafficking related service programs, whereas every individual

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family, community, and organization contribute to enhancing human trafficking awareness,

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prevention, and response. Therefore, I, aaron groff, as the mayor of

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du hereby proclaim the month of january, 2024 as human trafficking prevention month

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reaffirming our commitment to increase awareness, education and human trafficking, and make

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resources available to assist individuals and communities impacted by human trafficking and

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build diverse public-private partnerships to support a more comprehensive

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response to prevent and respond to human trafficking. I want to encourage you

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all to speak up anytime you see anything outta place. And I want to thank

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ms. Ron kandal for her efforts and advocacy throughout our community.

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mayor council members, thank you so much for the proclamation. I actually

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chair the fort bend county district attorney's human trafficking team. Back in 2016,

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there was a study that was done by the university of texas and it found that in

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2016, in the state of texas alone, 79,000 children

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were being sex trafficked. Of course, today, several years later,

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we don't know where that number stands, but I can assure you that that number has not decreased.

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so, what we find in national human trafficking awareness month, there's so many events

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in january, I wanted to find a way to bring re remembrance to survivors

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of sex trafficking february through december. So I have something for the city.

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it is a blue bank. Blue is the color of national human trafficking awareness month,

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and there is a qr code that is to the facebook group, our voice

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in texas that talks about human trafficking, um, particularly in fort bend county

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and the work that we're doing in the texas legislature to change those laws. Thank

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you.

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we will leave that there and display it in the lobbies for others to get, uh, information

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and utilize that qr code. So thank you. Alright,

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moving on with tonight's agenda. City manager's report briefings or updates may be

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provided regarding city services, administrative personnel matters, real estate development, infrastructure,

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events, regulations, community, and intergovernmental relation

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issues, mr. Harper. Alright, thank you. Good evening, mayor counsel,

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uh, to begin with and discussing the changes in various staff members. Uh,

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we do have one of those here tonight. Uh, we have a new hire,

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ms. Julie watts. Oh, I thought she came. I,

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oh, I saw her in the lobby. Well, scratch that. Um, she, uh, julie

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came to us, uh, from a long ways off. She comes from the city of simonton and, uh,

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she's joined the finance department as a finance specialist too. We

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do have a promotion. Um, ms. Cory gfa has been promoted, um,

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to the accountant to position with the finance department. And then

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we do have, uh, one resignation, a departure. Uh, jeremiah kirk has

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resigned from the police department, and that was effective january 19th of this year.

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moving on to project update, which again will be on the city manager report until

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completion, uh, for the city of shore water plant number two.

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uh, the pre-construction meeting occurred between city staff, the contractor and design

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team on december 20th, 2023.

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we then had a coordination meeting with the pecan ridge developer, the

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elevated storage tank engineer and the

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elevated storage tank contractor. The water plant design engineer and

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water plant contractor was also held on december 20th, 2023.

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just yesterday, we issued the construction notice to proceed on the project.

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the contractor has begun issuing some mills for review by the design

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engineer. Currently the construction project is 0% complete,

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and to date, we have expended $0. We

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are currently, uh, meeting monthly with the water plant contractor and the design team.

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we're also holding monthly coordination meetings with the water plant contractor

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design team, storage tank contractor and design team, and the macon

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ridge developer. So while we're excited that that, uh, has begun, we're while

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we're glad for rain, I will say now we've already been hit with a rain day yesterday

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and today and probably tomorrow. So, uh, but anyways, we're excited that that's

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kicked off and that's moving forward

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for the bicentennial updates. Uh, uh, it's a great amount

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of interdepartmental coordination that's going on and really pleased with, um,

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uh, a**l guadalupe, our edc director for spearheading that

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the event planning is moving, uh, along well. Vendor registrations have

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been steadily increasing. We've had multiple new vendor, um,

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signups just in the last week alone. Uh, the event will have a large family

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friendly activity area. It'll be completely free of cost to the attendees, as well

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as a wide range of food options available for purchase. And,

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uh, one of the things that we're most proud about is that it will conclude

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with a drone show featuring. And I know that the number will be shocking, but

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200 separate drones in honor of the 200th

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anniversary. So we're really, really excited and, and annel is working really hard and,

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uh, they're having weekly meetings with various departments to be able to move that

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along. So that's really gonna be a wonderful event. So again, I'm just keeping you all updated.

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uh, march 23rd, saturday, uh, four to 8:00 pm is when

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that will occur. So that concludes my report.

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any questions or comments regarding those items? Those

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items? City manager items? Uh, mr. Mayor, if I may, uh,

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I believe the, there was an update on the, um, status

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of the projects across the board that was, uh, shared with the council.

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is there a way we can put that on the website as well if it's not already there? That

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way the citizens can take benefit of that? Sure. That's not a problem. Thank you.

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okay, moving on to item eight. Consent items. Items

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listed under the consent agenda are considered routine, are generally enacted in one motion. The exception of this

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rule is that a council member may request one or more items to be removed from the

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consent agenda for a separate discussion. Uh, counsel, do you have any items

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you wish to remove at this time? Item k, item

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a. Okay. We have items

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a and item k. Any additional items?

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may I move? Counsel, approve consent items b through j.

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second. Okay, we have a motion by

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mr. Gavi, a second by mr. Kart to approve consent

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items b through j. Any further

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comments? All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? There

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is none. Items b through j

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are approved. Item a consent and approval of minutes from the city council meeting

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held on december 19th, 2023. Mr. Kar, mr.

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mayor, uh, since I was not presented the meeting, I'd like to abstain. Okay.

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may I make a motion? We approve consent item a second.

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okay, we have a motion on mr. K, second on ms. Kates to approve consent.

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item a. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? There

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is none, but there is one abstained. Mr. Decar.

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item item k, consent and approval, us equal employment

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opportunity commission negotiated settlement agreement. This has been a matter of

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executive session multiple times. Uh, I will let

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josh, uh, disclose what we can at this time. I'm just

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coming up at this time to remind you that everything that we've discussed in executive session, because of the

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negotiations, the negotiations that have been occurring with the eeoc have been confidential in nature

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and need to remain confidential, na in nature until they

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are approved, uh, uh, by the director of the eeoc. And so if we

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have any legal questions regarding the settlement, uh, I'd be happy to meet with

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you guys in executive session if, if you'd like to make a motion for that at this time.

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so, um, byron, help me out with this one, but as we haven't received

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anything, we don't actually know what is being approved and therefore couldn't

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possibly approve and give consent. We actually sent it to you via email. Yeah, it's been, it's been

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distributed, uh, before the first meeting. Okay.

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last week. Last week. Oh, with the weather. Okay. Hold on. Yeah, if you

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need to look at that real quick on january 11th.

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okay. I'm good, mayor.

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I move. Counsel, approve. Uh, consent item k, second. Okay, we

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have motion on ms. Cro second by ms. Case to approve consent. Item k.

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um, all in favor? A. Aye. Any opposed?

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there is none. The motion carries. Um,

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with that, as you heard, the attorneys, we can disclose more once the eoc approves.

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so, okay. Uh, moving on to item, new

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business item, a consideration and possible action to approve and adopt. Ordinance number 2024

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dash 1448, an ordinance of the city of texas, ordering a general

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election to be held on saturday, the fourth day of may, 2024.

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city secretary, have any comments as our election administrator?

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no, the only comment is just to let everyone know that we are accepting applications.

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um, we began accepting him on january 17th, and we'll be

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accepting them through friday, february 16th of 5:00 pm

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and it's for mayor at large. Two,

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two and three and three, yes. And how do people submit the application?

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is it online or in person? Yes. So you can submit 'em online via email.

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um, you can submit 'em in person or by mail.

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uh, you just have to make sure that they are notarized and, uh, the

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person that gives you the oath is allowed to give you those. Yeah. So for the

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public who may be listening, just to make sure all of that is clear, um,

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on the ballot is mayor at large district two

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and district three positions. Um, some of us are, are term limited

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out. And so those, those positions are being vacated. Um,

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and, uh, but in order to apply, you can submit that online. You can

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email them, you can mail them, you can come in person, but

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all the forms do have to be notarized correctly. And the person

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who administers the the oath has to be eligible

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to administer that oath. So, um, just important reminder. So, but

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you can come by at any time, uh, during business hours and, uh,

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there's no fee. There is no fee. , may I move? Counsel? Approve

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ordinance number 2024 dash 1448. I second. Second.

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we have a motion by mr. Kavi, second by mr. Poole, uh, to

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approve ordinance number 2024 dash 1448 in

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ordinance to the city of ster, texas, ordering a general election to be held on saturday, the fourth

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day of may, 2024. Any further comments or questions?

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uh, mr. Mayor, I just wanted to add that, uh, city secretary

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is, uh, one of the individuals that can note rise and, uh, give

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you the oath. If you're filing applications, you don't have to go looking for somebody else. Yeah, correct.

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both the city secretary and assistant city secretary. Alright,

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any other comments or questions? All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed?

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there is none. The motion carries. Item b, consideration, possible action improvement amendment to the professional service

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00:20:16,575 --> 00:20:20,015
agreement 2022 dash oh oh two for the primrose

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park project. Timothy,

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good evening, mayor and counsel, the item before you tonight is to amend

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the existing design contract for primrose park. The existing design

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contract for primrose park is, uh, formally what we all know is phase two, which consists of

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the ball fields, um, parking concession, and restroom

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building. Um, and associated components for all of that area of the park.

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00:20:47,015 --> 00:20:50,945
phase three that, um, we have been working towards is for the

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amphitheater, food truck, parking, additional parking area, um,

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a completely different separate parking lot, um, and additional restrooms.

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so what is before you tonight is to, um, the recommendation to approve

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the design amendment for this contract to be able to move forward with the design of phase three.

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and just a reminder, this was part of our,

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um, approval of the budget to proceed with, um, fa

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with the next phase of the project. Previously with the, uh, with the reason

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that we're doing the amendment, because we signed this before we had amended that as part of this

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sequence, correct? Correct.

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mayor. And what's, what's the timeline for completion on this design? We anticipate,

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um, about nine to 12 months for design for this phase. Um, some

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of that timeline is dependent on, um, which style of amphitheater we go with,

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if it has to be, um, you know, dif different architectural design components associated

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with that. So this, uh,

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budget amount, five 59,388

283
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is only for phase three? Yes. Right. There's nothing from phase two that is being

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00:22:01,305 --> 00:22:05,295
done in these points. It's amending the entire contract. So

285
00:22:05,515 --> 00:22:09,455
it would be okay, you know, a design contract ultimately if approved for phase two and

286
00:22:09,675 --> 00:22:12,635
phase three. But the 559,000 or yes, 559,000

287
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is for phase three, which brings the total contract to the 990,000.

288
00:22:18,305 --> 00:22:21,355
okay. Alright, thank you. Thanks for the clarification. Certainly.

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00:22:22,935 --> 00:22:26,715
may I move counsel, approve and authorize the city manager to execute an amendment

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00:22:27,015 --> 00:22:30,755
to professional service agreement 2022 dash zero two with half

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half incorporated for the design services in the amount of $559,388

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for a total not to exceed of $990,088

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for primrose park. Second. All right. We

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have a motion by mr. I, second by mr. Poole, um, to approve

295
00:22:50,195 --> 00:22:54,145
an amendment to the professional service agreement and authorize the city manager to execute,

296
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um, the agreement number 20 20 22

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00:23:00,265 --> 00:23:04,175
dash zero two for the primroses project park project not

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to exceed, um, 900 and sorry

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00:23:08,945 --> 00:23:12,175
$990,000 8,990

300
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and $88. Sorry, I lost it in my, in my notes. There it is.

301
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so 90 $990,088

302
00:23:22,095 --> 00:23:24,955
for primrose park agreement with half incorporated.

303
00:23:27,255 --> 00:23:28,435
any further questions or comments

304
00:23:31,425 --> 00:23:35,295
being none? All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? There is none.

305
00:23:35,455 --> 00:23:39,295
the motion carries. Moving on to item c, presentation and discussion

306
00:23:39,735 --> 00:23:43,215
with the consideration of possible action regarding a park and recreational

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general obligation bond. Um, I know we will have

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a lot of history here, but, but I will say, um, this is,

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uh, in response to combining

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multiple phases of the project moving forward. Total cost coming in, there's, there's a whole

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lot involved and so look forward to the presentation. So thanks,

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00:24:05,805 --> 00:24:09,225
heather. Thank you. Let me ask a question first. So the recommendation

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00:24:10,125 --> 00:24:13,925
is that it's around discussion regarding it will be,

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will we be asked to approve something? Also, I think we'll be looking

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00:24:18,505 --> 00:24:22,125
for consensus, um, as to if we have

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interest in moving forward. Okay. And if we do have interest, what

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that bond package potentially might look like. Um, should we,

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should we choose to go? So this is a discussion that's correct. That's okay. Okay. It's

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not a final decision. Yeah, there were two different wordings here going on, so I wasn't sure.

320
00:24:39,075 --> 00:24:42,965
okay. Thanks. Thank you. Um, good evening, mayor and council members.

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00:24:43,465 --> 00:24:47,325
my name is kimberly bo. I'm a resident of shore and also the co-chair of,

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uh, sre parks and recreation commission. So today we're going to be discussing

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with you, um, a recommendation for your consideration

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if it moves forward. Hold on one second. Let's see here.

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00:25:00,365 --> 00:25:00,675
it's on.

326
00:25:11,875 --> 00:25:12,225
thank you.

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00:25:16,015 --> 00:25:19,965
there we go. Just some easy technical issues there, but we're putting a

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recommendation in front of you for your consideration. Um, and I wanna thank tiffany and

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00:25:24,165 --> 00:25:28,085
erin who are also gonna be presenting on, uh, behalf of the city. Um, today we're gonna be talking

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a little bit about what that rec, uh, parks and recreation commission project priority ranking is

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00:25:32,565 --> 00:25:35,925
for your consideration. We're gonna talk through those proposed park bond projects,

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00:25:36,985 --> 00:25:40,965
um, the potential bond packages, impact to the tax rate, and then next

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steps moving forward. So as you can see from some of these photos,

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uh, the over the past three years as being chair of shore parks and recs, and now

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also the co-chair, um, we've had a lot of awesome discussions about

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what the future of shore could look like for our parks. Um, our council liaison,

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00:25:58,425 --> 00:26:02,365
um, council member pool can attest to each and every month us discussing all of

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the parks that we do have and ideas for them. Um, I want

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to let you know that I don't represent just myself today. I do represent the seven members that

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00:26:10,765 --> 00:26:14,645
are volunteers, but appointed to shore parks and recreation. And we're all in agreement

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00:26:14,845 --> 00:26:18,705
with this recommendation that I'm gonna put in forward, uh, to you today. Um,

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00:26:19,545 --> 00:26:23,485
we love our home. We love shore. And just like you, we are servant minded.

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we wanna see recreational events that benefit the entire city. We wanna see parks

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that benefit our entire community. Um, and we try our best to make recommendations and,

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um, on behalf of the community as we move forward. So not in

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an addition to just having fun, um, but we really do have the whole community in mind.

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so, as you guys are aware, shore has grown, um, very crazy in the past few years.

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for the past eight years that I've been a resident of shore. I've seen it quadruple in size.

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and we know with that there are a lot of competing needs, all of which are important,

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all are priorities, but all cost money. And so for us, our secret is no more.

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we want to make sure that we're making some wise decisions on behalf of the community. And for

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00:27:02,845 --> 00:27:06,845
us, that comes in the form of parks. So, over the past few meetings

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that we've had, especially this fall, the parks and recreation commission

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did take, um, time to rank what our needs are. And we have ms. Ramona

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00:27:16,205 --> 00:27:20,205
ridge, who's also in the audience. She's the, the current chair of parks and rec. But we really

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00:27:20,365 --> 00:27:23,845
started to think about all these parks that we talk about each and every meeting. What are the priorities

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and what would we like to come to you guys today with, um, in terms of a recommendation. So we

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00:27:28,605 --> 00:27:32,365
asked all seven members to rank, uh, what their priorities were for the

359
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existing parks that we currently have. And primroses park was the number one priority of the parks

360
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and recreation commission to make sure that we, um,

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complete primrose park all phases to meet expectations and to make sure that we have

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a budget that can help support that. The second ranking was irene stern

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to investigate, to explore, um, how that could be renovated,

364
00:27:53,915 --> 00:27:57,745
perhaps have some amenities that are added to that in line with the, um,

365
00:27:57,965 --> 00:28:01,825
master plan that we have in place, um, and then also talk about land. The

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third ranking was land, because we know more land is not gonna be created, but to secure

367
00:28:06,165 --> 00:28:10,045
land for future parks that could potentially, um, be built there. Uh, the

368
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fourth consideration was the, uh, five acre park. Again, this is

369
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a concept that if we had land we could potentially build and then francis

370
00:28:18,395 --> 00:28:22,285
mark park, uh, potentially turning that into a veteran's memorial. But these were the

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five top priorities, um, from the shore parks and recreation commission

372
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of what we'd like to see happen in our community. Um, but in order to complete these,

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of course, we need the funds to move forward. So we represent the community, but

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we'd really like to have the community's input and weigh in. And what the conversation

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was at our meeting was to put potentially a bond out for consideration for

376
00:28:43,405 --> 00:28:47,325
the community to vote on, for them to tell us what it is that they'd like to see, um, happening

377
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here in shore. So it is my recommendation to y'all as

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I stand here, to say that shore parks and recreation would like to see a bond put

379
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out for consideration of, uh, voters here in the community. And

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now I'm gonna go ahead and turn this over to tiffany who's gonna walk us through

381
00:29:04,155 --> 00:29:07,905
what those projects look like and what, how those projects, um,

382
00:29:08,235 --> 00:29:10,435
were estimated and what that would include.

383
00:29:24,595 --> 00:29:28,385
thank you, kimberly. Good evening, mayor and council. Tonight I will be presenting

384
00:29:28,805 --> 00:29:32,485
on the proposed park bond projects that the parks and recreation commission ranked.

385
00:29:33,205 --> 00:29:37,045
as kimberly mentioned, the park priority is primrose park, and

386
00:29:37,265 --> 00:29:41,125
to no surprise, was ranked number one with the commission. Phase two of primrose

387
00:29:41,485 --> 00:29:45,125
park consists of four youth baseball fields, restrooms and concession

388
00:29:45,685 --> 00:29:49,605
building, parking, and required detention. Historically, primrose phase

389
00:29:49,905 --> 00:29:53,535
two budget has been based off of the regional park fund available funds.

390
00:29:54,715 --> 00:29:58,665
this project is currently in design, but ultimately, there are not enough funds to

391
00:29:59,245 --> 00:30:03,085
build primrose phase two. Staff and half the design

392
00:30:03,405 --> 00:30:07,105
firm have worked diligently to find alternatives and

393
00:30:07,595 --> 00:30:11,205
different methods to try to bring this phase into the construction budget.

394
00:30:12,565 --> 00:30:16,045
ultimately, we want to build this part to be something that fulcher is proud of.

395
00:30:17,215 --> 00:30:21,205
phase three will consist of an amphitheater, additional parking, food, truck

396
00:30:21,445 --> 00:30:25,385
area, restrooms, walking trails, and a playground. The

397
00:30:25,605 --> 00:30:29,225
estimated budget presented to you tonight of $19 million is

398
00:30:29,645 --> 00:30:33,475
considering construction for all of primrose phase two and phase three with

399
00:30:33,785 --> 00:30:37,445
no other funding sources designed for primrose is budgeted

400
00:30:37,885 --> 00:30:41,795
within the current budget and not included in the proposed bond. Each

401
00:30:42,085 --> 00:30:46,025
project shown has a proposed project contingency to assist in covering the

402
00:30:46,285 --> 00:30:49,125
unknowns and the ever-changing inflation. We have been faced with

403
00:30:53,665 --> 00:30:57,475
irene stern community center as a whole, ranked number two for

404
00:30:57,695 --> 00:31:00,855
the parks commission. I have split irene stern into two different projects,

405
00:31:01,715 --> 00:31:05,675
the recreation center and park improvements. This slide represents the

406
00:31:06,055 --> 00:31:09,655
proposed recreation center consisting of opportunities such as a gymnasium,

407
00:31:10,615 --> 00:31:14,605
a fitness room, walking track, and locker rooms. The master plan

408
00:31:14,895 --> 00:31:18,175
projected this facility to be approximately 21,000 square feet.

409
00:31:19,435 --> 00:31:23,135
the parks and pathways master plan is a document that helps guide the city in what the community

410
00:31:23,645 --> 00:31:27,635
desires. With a project such as a recreation center, it would be beneficial to

411
00:31:28,055 --> 00:31:31,535
complete a preliminary engineering report to better determine what indoor recreation

412
00:31:32,095 --> 00:31:35,405
opportunities we want to provide and better to find the project cost.

413
00:31:36,855 --> 00:31:40,775
additionally, this facility would need a significant number of staff to run the recreation center

414
00:31:41,675 --> 00:31:45,495
as, as well as additional facility maintenance staff and increased operational

415
00:31:46,245 --> 00:31:49,825
cost. Currently, some of public works maintenance staff are located

416
00:31:50,265 --> 00:31:54,095
within the irene stern facility and would need to be relocated

417
00:31:54,705 --> 00:31:58,665
should this project be approved, which increases the need for a public works

418
00:31:59,005 --> 00:32:01,305
and parks operations and maintenance facility.

419
00:32:07,215 --> 00:32:11,035
the second project for irene stern community center is the irene stern park

420
00:32:11,315 --> 00:32:15,115
improvement project. This project consists of walking trails, a playground,

421
00:32:15,975 --> 00:32:19,765
sports court, and a pavilion. This project would bring the needed

422
00:32:20,045 --> 00:32:24,025
sports courts to our community, while also providing additional play areas for

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00:32:24,245 --> 00:32:24,925
our shore community.

424
00:32:29,325 --> 00:32:33,155
the third ranked project is land acquisition, which would be, which

425
00:32:33,505 --> 00:32:37,505
would provide the funding for the city to acquire additional land for future

426
00:32:37,785 --> 00:32:37,785
projects.

427
00:32:44,055 --> 00:32:47,915
the five acre park project was the fourth ranking project

428
00:32:48,385 --> 00:32:52,275
with the understanding that it is conceptual, but demonstrates the desire

429
00:32:52,615 --> 00:32:55,755
to provide more parks and recreation opportunities to our community.

430
00:32:56,865 --> 00:33:00,235
this project supports the previous project, the need for additional

431
00:33:00,885 --> 00:33:04,715
city-owned land in shore. The budget shown was

432
00:33:04,935 --> 00:33:08,875
developed in the master plan based off of the conceptual plan shown, but

433
00:33:09,165 --> 00:33:13,095
does not include detention. Staff would recommend the city purchase

434
00:33:13,405 --> 00:33:17,055
land before proposing a conceptual park on a bond.

435
00:33:21,095 --> 00:33:24,745
francis smart park was ranked number five by the commission and planned

436
00:33:25,125 --> 00:33:28,985
for a plaza environment with a veteran's memorial if

437
00:33:29,445 --> 00:33:33,185
approved. The budget presented tonight is contingent on the site being fully available to

438
00:33:33,765 --> 00:33:37,725
construct staff believe that this project is a great addition to

439
00:33:37,925 --> 00:33:41,705
our community, but the existing structure on site could impact

440
00:33:42,425 --> 00:33:46,405
the project timeline and ultimately the project budget. With that,

441
00:33:46,845 --> 00:33:50,525
I would like to ask our assistant city manager, zach, to provide an update regarding

442
00:33:51,005 --> 00:33:51,365
the section house.

443
00:33:56,215 --> 00:34:00,155
uh, quite simply, it's still there. Uh, there is an agreement

444
00:34:00,455 --> 00:34:04,115
in place, uh, from anderson smith who's got the commercial attractive

445
00:34:04,545 --> 00:34:07,915
land that's immediately east of sim street and on to 93

446
00:34:09,095 --> 00:34:13,035
in our downtown area, that he would then move the section house to his property

447
00:34:13,215 --> 00:34:16,335
and it'd be a focal point of his development. Uh,

448
00:34:17,455 --> 00:34:21,295
we have reviewed those plans. We've approved his permits. Uh, he's included something called the

449
00:34:21,515 --> 00:34:25,455
section house square. Uh, but he has not moved forward on the project yet citing

450
00:34:26,715 --> 00:34:29,315
construction costs. So until he starts construction,

451
00:34:30,735 --> 00:34:34,505
he cannot move the section house over according to him.

452
00:34:34,805 --> 00:34:38,585
so that's kinda where we're right there, but there is, there is interest there and a plan.

453
00:34:41,205 --> 00:34:41,665
thank you, zach.

454
00:34:45,455 --> 00:34:49,385
this slide represents the project's in priority ranking from the parks and recreation commission.

455
00:34:50,495 --> 00:34:54,475
also illustrating two different totals. The first, including the irene

456
00:34:54,945 --> 00:34:58,185
stern recreation center and the second with irene stern park improvements.

457
00:34:59,205 --> 00:35:03,025
the total for all projects shown with both projects at irene stern

458
00:35:03,435 --> 00:35:04,755
would be approximately $56 million.

459
00:35:11,165 --> 00:35:15,115
here we proposed a few different packages, one

460
00:35:15,335 --> 00:35:19,315
package with the top three priority ranking projects. Eight. I'm sorry, can you, can

461
00:35:19,535 --> 00:35:21,085
you just back up to the previous one? Certainly.

462
00:35:24,535 --> 00:35:27,595
so the total is 51.

463
00:35:28,765 --> 00:35:32,765
the, the total if you, if you consider both components of irene stern is

464
00:35:32,985 --> 00:35:36,405
56 million. The total, if you, um,

465
00:35:37,265 --> 00:35:40,925
if, if irene stern was only the recreation center would be 51.

466
00:35:41,705 --> 00:35:45,535
if you did not consider the recreation center, but you did consider the irene

467
00:35:45,885 --> 00:35:49,125
stern park improvements, then it would be the 37 8. Okay, I see

468
00:35:53,995 --> 00:35:57,845
here we proposed a few different packages. One package with the top three

469
00:35:58,565 --> 00:36:01,615
priority ranking projects, a separate package with francis smart,

470
00:36:02,625 --> 00:36:06,405
and an additional package for the irene stern recreation center. These are example

471
00:36:06,805 --> 00:36:10,645
packages and ultimately can be customized based off of the direction from council.

472
00:36:11,885 --> 00:36:15,695
next, aaron will show the estimated tax impact for each project,

473
00:36:16,105 --> 00:36:20,105
which will also allow counsel to consider different packages. Thank

474
00:36:20,455 --> 00:36:24,455
you for the opportunity to present this to you tonight. At this time, I would like to

475
00:36:24,575 --> 00:36:27,535
hand this to, um, over to aaron, our finance director.

476
00:36:35,755 --> 00:36:36,045
good evening.

477
00:36:39,895 --> 00:36:43,475
so the next slide goes over. What are general obligation bonds? General obligation

478
00:36:44,075 --> 00:36:47,475
bonds are bonds that are voted on by the public through a bond election.

479
00:36:48,345 --> 00:36:52,065
they're secured by property taxes and that we were required by law to levy

480
00:36:52,355 --> 00:36:53,835
a tax rate to pay for those bonds.

481
00:36:57,675 --> 00:37:01,455
the next slide goes over what our current property tax rate is for the fiscal year 2024.

482
00:37:02,755 --> 00:37:05,895
as you can see, our maintenance and operations tax rate is 0.1 2 7 1 7 4.

483
00:37:07,835 --> 00:37:11,775
our interest in sinking is 0.0 4 1 5 9 3 with our

484
00:37:11,895 --> 00:37:13,955
total adopted tax rate being 0.1 6 9 0 6 7.

485
00:37:19,705 --> 00:37:23,685
the next slide goes over tax rate impact by parker project. So what

486
00:37:23,885 --> 00:37:27,435
we did was we took the different bond packages and we spoke with our financial

487
00:37:28,045 --> 00:37:31,165
advisors. And you'll see the first column is the different projects.

488
00:37:33,065 --> 00:37:36,445
the second column is the estimated cost that tiffany just discussed with you,

489
00:37:37,075 --> 00:37:40,645
with the third column being the tax rate impact per the project

490
00:37:41,675 --> 00:37:45,085
with the, and the fourth column being the annual impact to a $400,000

491
00:37:46,075 --> 00:37:49,805
home. Once again, these are just estimates because the taxable values will change

492
00:37:50,175 --> 00:37:53,885
every year. And as you can see, the total

493
00:37:54,305 --> 00:37:57,255
for all those projects comes up to 0.0 8 8 6 8 1

494
00:37:59,265 --> 00:38:02,485
at a total estimated cost of $354 and 71 cents

495
00:38:03,385 --> 00:38:04,725
to a $400,000 home.

496
00:38:07,765 --> 00:38:11,465
the next slide, I'd like to go in and talk about the annual mud payments the city is obligated

497
00:38:11,905 --> 00:38:15,865
to make. The city currently has development agreements with different muds throughout the

498
00:38:15,985 --> 00:38:19,705
city. Each year, we are obligated to pay a portion

499
00:38:20,005 --> 00:38:23,865
of our property taxes that we receive in that particular mud back

500
00:38:24,145 --> 00:38:28,145
to the muds. The amount that we have to pay back is based on a tiered

501
00:38:28,585 --> 00:38:32,305
structure that is in each agreement. As you can see the on the slide,

502
00:38:32,615 --> 00:38:36,605
this is the tiered structure that is in each development agreement. It's based off of our

503
00:38:36,725 --> 00:38:40,525
total tax rate. Since our total tax rate right now is currently

504
00:38:40,845 --> 00:38:44,715
well below the 0.21999, we pay to the muds,

505
00:38:45,005 --> 00:38:48,805
the 0.0 6 2 5 1 0 of the assessed value in that particular

506
00:38:49,425 --> 00:38:53,125
mud. Every year of the property taxes the city receives,

507
00:38:54,145 --> 00:38:57,485
should the property taxes, our total property tax go above that,

508
00:38:58,225 --> 00:39:01,885
you will see the different tiers and the different percentages they go up based on our total

509
00:39:02,485 --> 00:39:06,485
property tax. The

510
00:39:06,705 --> 00:39:10,585
next slide just kind of goes into more detail about that first column is, once

511
00:39:10,825 --> 00:39:13,985
again, the different percentages based on your total tax rate. The tier,

512
00:39:14,895 --> 00:39:18,685
with the second column being the actual increase of the call, should

513
00:39:19,105 --> 00:39:22,875
the total tax rate go to that tier for that related percentage?

514
00:39:24,045 --> 00:39:27,785
and then what your total, our total, the total the city's total annual mud payments

515
00:39:28,065 --> 00:39:31,525
would be with that increase. And based off of our 2024

516
00:39:32,425 --> 00:39:33,385
budgeted amount of $1,577,000.

517
00:39:41,815 --> 00:39:45,805
with this slide, I did a little property tax rate analysis. I took our current total tax

518
00:39:46,025 --> 00:39:49,705
rate of 0.1 6 9 0 6 7 and took the

519
00:39:50,065 --> 00:39:54,025
current threshold that we're currently in of the 0.21999 with the

520
00:39:54,185 --> 00:39:58,005
difference being 0.0 5 1 2, 3 2, which shows the

521
00:39:58,225 --> 00:40:02,205
difference that we would we currently have before we go up to that next level of

522
00:40:02,425 --> 00:40:06,425
that tier that we would be required to pay the 7% or the 8% based on

523
00:40:06,505 --> 00:40:10,465
what our total tax rate is. And then below are just simply examples

524
00:40:11,045 --> 00:40:14,705
of possible combinations that would keep the city within that 0.0

525
00:40:15,375 --> 00:40:15,375
5 1 2, 3 2.

526
00:40:20,185 --> 00:40:24,125
so I, I have a question, but I don't know when you yeah. To take questions. So, so

527
00:40:24,365 --> 00:40:27,965
a couple of notes. Mm-hmm. , um, first before we address those

528
00:40:28,485 --> 00:40:32,405
questions, when it comes to the, to the mud rate, I do wanna remind all of you, in case

529
00:40:32,595 --> 00:40:36,145
some of you weren't on counsel at the time, um,

530
00:40:36,835 --> 00:40:40,025
back prior to the renegotiated agreement, um,

531
00:40:41,145 --> 00:40:45,105
in 2018, in the end of 18, um, any

532
00:40:45,545 --> 00:40:49,405
tax rate over 10 cents went back to the muds. We renegotiated.

533
00:40:50,585 --> 00:40:54,325
and part of that negotiation was the mud director's

534
00:40:54,605 --> 00:40:58,225
understanding that at some point in time, the city would need the

535
00:40:58,765 --> 00:41:02,595
capacity to issue bonds without impacting that

536
00:41:03,225 --> 00:41:07,145
tax rate that's paid to the muds. So in other words, if

537
00:41:07,365 --> 00:41:11,285
we would've issued a 5 cent tax, um, for a

538
00:41:11,405 --> 00:41:15,035
bond package, we would've had to pay 5 cents to the muds.

539
00:41:15,785 --> 00:41:19,685
and so this renegotiated contract changed the terms

540
00:41:21,025 --> 00:41:24,085
to this tiered structure, uh, of payments.

541
00:41:25,305 --> 00:41:29,065
um, I don't think at the time any of us, um, saw

542
00:41:29,315 --> 00:41:33,085
what was coming from the state legislature. However, we did take that into account

543
00:41:33,445 --> 00:41:37,365
because we heard rumors of such, um, when negotiating these terms.

544
00:41:37,625 --> 00:41:41,515
and what I'm referring to is, um, our cap that

545
00:41:41,805 --> 00:41:45,505
we can't exceed on our, on our tax rate, um, each year. So

546
00:41:45,825 --> 00:41:49,325
all of those calculations did come into play as we renegotiated

547
00:41:49,965 --> 00:41:53,755
the terms. Uh, we'll remind the public and counsel that

548
00:41:54,745 --> 00:41:58,625
the tax rate that we pay back to the muds is only on the

549
00:41:58,975 --> 00:42:02,605
value within that mud. So we're not paying the total

550
00:42:03,105 --> 00:42:06,855
tax rate above, which is why, um, it's, it's, it's lower

551
00:42:07,235 --> 00:42:11,065
than the percentage that's actually paid back to the mud, um, as

552
00:42:11,285 --> 00:42:15,165
we see it to date. So just a couple of clarifying things there as it relates

553
00:42:15,425 --> 00:42:18,965
to the mud. Um, when, when staff sent this, we talked extensively

554
00:42:19,655 --> 00:42:23,645
about the importance of this, um, being a part of the equation because we

555
00:42:23,845 --> 00:42:27,215
do need to know, you do need to know that if you go above

556
00:42:28,665 --> 00:42:32,645
the, sorry, my 21.99, if you,

557
00:42:32,765 --> 00:42:36,765
if you go above that, um, then it does kick us to the next

558
00:42:37,075 --> 00:42:40,845
tier of payment. Um, but then we're still, we're splitting pennies

559
00:42:41,425 --> 00:42:45,405
is virtually what's happening as that increases. So, but, but I wanna,

560
00:42:46,205 --> 00:42:49,115
I wanna, as a taxpayer to the meds,

561
00:42:50,525 --> 00:42:54,005
I don't feel like, and I speak, I think for most everybody

562
00:42:54,545 --> 00:42:58,005
in my district, I don't know that this represents

563
00:42:59,375 --> 00:43:03,315
us. Well, and, and by that, what I'm guess I'm saying

564
00:43:03,695 --> 00:43:07,215
is everybody that is in a mud,

565
00:43:08,105 --> 00:43:11,955
which is all cross creek plus others, right? I pay $6,000

566
00:43:13,095 --> 00:43:16,935
a year to the mud, which is what other people that

567
00:43:17,215 --> 00:43:21,135
don't live in cross creek, they don't pay. So to, to the

568
00:43:21,335 --> 00:43:25,235
point of why we have these mud payments back to

569
00:43:25,565 --> 00:43:28,955
from the city, it's because people like myself

570
00:43:29,605 --> 00:43:33,495
have already paid that $6,000 and all it

571
00:43:33,655 --> 00:43:37,265
is, is paying the mud so that they can pay for my roads,

572
00:43:38,235 --> 00:43:41,915
my infrastructure that I live in, that, that kind of thing. So

573
00:43:42,575 --> 00:43:46,415
I don't, I think that we're not serving the med taxpayers

574
00:43:47,485 --> 00:43:51,465
well when we don't present that part of it. So if we

575
00:43:51,585 --> 00:43:55,385
print, if we present the meds, you need to be able to speak back to

576
00:43:55,825 --> 00:43:59,485
somebody like me that says, oh, and by the way, ms. Cage, you've already paid $6,000,

577
00:44:01,355 --> 00:44:05,165
which basically all we are doing is taking your money and paying it

578
00:44:05,385 --> 00:44:09,245
back to months. Yeah. And so, so that, that's my point. So yeah. And so to

579
00:44:09,465 --> 00:44:13,465
that point, what's, what's really happening? Um, and I can't,

580
00:44:13,825 --> 00:44:16,915
I think my rate was 85 cents, right?

581
00:44:18,325 --> 00:44:21,745
in reality it was 5 cents more. Okay? Yeah. Because,

582
00:44:23,045 --> 00:44:26,945
so, so what what's really happening is because of the city's payment

583
00:44:27,415 --> 00:44:31,345
back, it reduces that taxpayer in

584
00:44:31,565 --> 00:44:35,005
the mud's rate, but it's, it's not really a true

585
00:44:35,685 --> 00:44:39,545
reduction, um, because it's just the members that are within the

586
00:44:39,785 --> 00:44:43,785
mud. So, um, just kind of an important note to understand, uh,

587
00:44:44,005 --> 00:44:47,675
the taxpayers as a general are not paying that

588
00:44:48,065 --> 00:44:51,965
tax rate back to the mud. It's only on the tax, within the tax, the assessed

589
00:44:52,095 --> 00:44:56,085
value within those muds. So, so I didn't understand

590
00:44:56,545 --> 00:44:59,485
the reduction piece, but I think it's important to clarify

591
00:45:00,745 --> 00:45:04,025
why not. I mean, on this, the

592
00:45:05,735 --> 00:45:09,505
city takes revenue from the taxpayers.

593
00:45:10,245 --> 00:45:13,745
mm-hmm. , right? So I pay our tax rate, which is

594
00:45:14,545 --> 00:45:17,785
whatever 0.1 6, 1 6, and nine mm-hmm. , right? I pay that.

595
00:45:18,965 --> 00:45:22,905
and so does everyone else that lives in the city. Then the city

596
00:45:24,165 --> 00:45:27,905
has to take from that revenue and rebate

597
00:45:28,835 --> 00:45:32,785
back to certain muds, right? Mm-hmm, the

598
00:45:33,005 --> 00:45:36,365
percentage that you've shown here. So not only am I paying,

599
00:45:38,755 --> 00:45:42,695
I don't know what my bill was, it's somewhere between five and $7,000. But

600
00:45:43,255 --> 00:45:47,095
of the, that's for the mud. But of the money that

601
00:45:47,425 --> 00:45:51,135
I paid to the city for taxes, a percentage of that is rebated

602
00:45:51,625 --> 00:45:55,625
to the mud. Mm-hmm. . So the mud's giving my mud dollars to pay for the infrastructure

603
00:45:56,365 --> 00:46:00,305
for the mud that I live in. I understand the roads that I drive on, the infrastructure, the water,

604
00:46:00,655 --> 00:46:04,525
blah, blah, blah. Right? So it's important because this is going to impact

605
00:46:05,595 --> 00:46:09,445
right? Our ins. Yes. Right? So as we,

606
00:46:10,165 --> 00:46:13,865
as it stands, the way this is presented now, there would be no additional

607
00:46:14,325 --> 00:46:17,745
impact because we're under that rate. So we wouldn't go to the next level.

608
00:46:18,485 --> 00:46:22,005
but should we take into consideration and put out

609
00:46:22,665 --> 00:46:26,605
a bond proposal that moves us to the next tier. Now then the

610
00:46:26,825 --> 00:46:30,725
city's ins is impacted. Correct. So we, 'cause it's gonna go so

611
00:46:30,945 --> 00:46:34,905
that and the city's money right? Is what we use to pay

612
00:46:35,085 --> 00:46:39,085
for everything that the city is doing. Yes. So it's sort of a double-edged sword. Mm-hmm.

613
00:46:39,545 --> 00:46:43,145
. Right? And everyone should understand that. Uh, or we somehow

614
00:46:43,565 --> 00:46:47,225
we have to make it clear. And if we're going to put any bond referendum on the ballot,

615
00:46:48,125 --> 00:46:51,465
it needs to clearly show

616
00:46:52,265 --> 00:46:56,195
what people are right. Are agreeing to or not agreeing to. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. So currently anything

617
00:46:56,545 --> 00:46:59,865
over 5 cents, um, actually 5.12 cents,

618
00:47:03,355 --> 00:47:06,995
anything over that 5 cent would kick us into the next threshold

619
00:47:07,495 --> 00:47:11,425
on this year's current, um, tax rate. Now, I will note

620
00:47:12,545 --> 00:47:16,335
that for the past, well, since we signed the agreement, um,

621
00:47:16,655 --> 00:47:20,475
and the new state legislation went into, into effect, our rate

622
00:47:20,855 --> 00:47:24,025
has actually gone from, it was, I believe

623
00:47:25,435 --> 00:47:29,385
18, 18 and a half cents. Mm-hmm. . So we've dropped to two

624
00:47:29,635 --> 00:47:33,065
full cents mm-hmm. From that time that this started. So

625
00:47:33,645 --> 00:47:37,415
I, I wouldn't imagine, um, next year giving new population,

626
00:47:38,385 --> 00:47:41,685
new rooftops, I would imagine that we're looking at another

627
00:47:42,445 --> 00:47:45,905
decrease in the overall tax rate again, um,

628
00:47:46,875 --> 00:47:50,375
with continued increasing cost of, of, of homes

629
00:47:50,945 --> 00:47:54,455
in the area. But you're right, anything above

630
00:47:54,985 --> 00:47:58,625
the 5 cents on the ballot would result in an

631
00:47:59,405 --> 00:48:03,315
increase, um, to that mud payment. And that was kind

632
00:48:03,605 --> 00:48:07,445
of the point of, to, to your point of yes, the city's paying

633
00:48:07,625 --> 00:48:11,565
it back, if the city wasn't paying it back, we would be paying a higher

634
00:48:11,835 --> 00:48:15,605
rate within those months anyway. So, but I would like to say,

635
00:48:15,925 --> 00:48:19,805
I mean, so I think that's all really important, and I think for a lot of people, even me, because you and I had

636
00:48:19,965 --> 00:48:23,925
a conversation, 'cause these numbers are just sort of flying by and no, there's no

637
00:48:24,045 --> 00:48:28,025
frame of reference necessarily, right? Mm-hmm. . So we're not all in

638
00:48:28,245 --> 00:48:32,135
finance, but, uh, I think it's important that as during these

639
00:48:32,485 --> 00:48:36,185
discussions, that we realize that we are part of

640
00:48:36,685 --> 00:48:40,465
a city shore, right? The city of re re first. And

641
00:48:40,865 --> 00:48:44,765
yes, we all have responsibilities and where we live

642
00:48:45,105 --> 00:48:48,495
and our houses and our muds and all these things, right? But it's really about

643
00:48:49,475 --> 00:48:53,325
what do we want for the city of sre as we have these discussions? Mm-hmm.

644
00:48:53,605 --> 00:48:57,245
, we're not going to decide anything tonight. Right? But, so that, for me,

645
00:48:57,835 --> 00:49:01,725
it's looking at the, you know, the bigger picture. Yes. And these have big numbers with

646
00:49:02,005 --> 00:49:05,645
them. I mean mm-hmm. It's serious. Yeah. And I, I think to that point,

647
00:49:06,275 --> 00:49:10,225
when I talk to residents, um, across the

648
00:49:10,445 --> 00:49:14,225
city, and it doesn't matter if it's bo arc or f run

649
00:49:14,465 --> 00:49:18,285
or polo ranch or cross creek, um, there's a general

650
00:49:19,125 --> 00:49:22,805
consensus for ball fields and, um, place for the city

651
00:49:23,285 --> 00:49:27,005
together, the amphitheater concept, those kinds of things. So I'm not surprised

652
00:49:27,525 --> 00:49:31,365
to see primrose rise to the top as the number

653
00:49:31,665 --> 00:49:35,325
one priority. However, I will say that I do think,

654
00:49:36,105 --> 00:49:39,915
um, those who live in master plan communities will

655
00:49:40,685 --> 00:49:44,425
struggle supporting a bond that has buying of small tracks

656
00:49:44,845 --> 00:49:48,845
of parkland, um, because there's pocket

657
00:49:49,415 --> 00:49:52,365
parks within those communities. So that's gonna be a larger

658
00:49:53,825 --> 00:49:57,245
ask when you're talking about taking the vote to the populace.

659
00:49:57,985 --> 00:50:01,965
so that's something to, to consider. Um, a

660
00:50:02,605 --> 00:50:05,785
additionally, I think when you talk about the importance of

661
00:50:06,845 --> 00:50:10,845
downtown and, uh, the livable center study and all the things that we worked

662
00:50:11,065 --> 00:50:15,045
on since, um, prior to even some of us being

663
00:50:15,505 --> 00:50:19,345
seated here, um, the francis smart park downtown, the,

664
00:50:19,665 --> 00:50:23,525
the veterans memorial, those kinds of things becomes a higher priority.

665
00:50:24,305 --> 00:50:28,065
um, I, I think rene stern, the improvements outside become

666
00:50:28,515 --> 00:50:31,775
very important, um, when you talk about the grand,

667
00:50:32,705 --> 00:50:36,645
um, plan, the regional plan of parks. But I do

668
00:50:37,165 --> 00:50:40,845
struggle a little bit with a community center that should be, that

669
00:50:41,625 --> 00:50:45,165
at least partially my opinion, is the responsibility of the ymca

670
00:50:46,185 --> 00:50:49,765
or of when we've got la fitness, we've got different

671
00:50:50,355 --> 00:50:54,085
community places to work out to play volleyball, to do those

672
00:50:54,455 --> 00:50:58,165
kinds of things. Now, if we wanted to, you know, we do have an

673
00:50:58,485 --> 00:51:02,385
mou currently with the ymca, and if we wanted to say, hey, here's the land to

674
00:51:02,605 --> 00:51:06,585
develop, and you guys go and staff and fund and do

675
00:51:06,805 --> 00:51:10,625
all of those kind of things, that, that might change the equation. Um,

676
00:51:11,185 --> 00:51:15,085
but that being said, that's just kind of where my, my opinion on what I

677
00:51:15,205 --> 00:51:18,645
think as I think about the populace and how these packages

678
00:51:19,785 --> 00:51:23,515
get rolled out, um, you know, we've gotta think about then

679
00:51:23,805 --> 00:51:27,245
there's a couple of things counsel to think about. We can put all of these

680
00:51:27,845 --> 00:51:31,725
separately on a bond referendum. Each one, each line item can be

681
00:51:31,945 --> 00:51:35,565
its own on a referendum. You can package them with multiple

682
00:51:36,325 --> 00:51:40,215
together. There's a whole lot of ways, um, that you could

683
00:51:40,705 --> 00:51:44,405
choose to do this, to take it to the public, um, for a vote.

684
00:51:45,065 --> 00:51:48,795
um, I will say one of the things that I think we are all becoming very

685
00:51:49,325 --> 00:51:52,615
familiar with is the fact that, um, increasing

686
00:51:53,795 --> 00:51:57,755
cost, not, not just for the city of re but across the board, when

687
00:51:58,045 --> 00:52:01,835
I talk to other, um, municipalities, we're seeing this rise

688
00:52:02,505 --> 00:52:06,445
in cost. Um, so in order to build the type of

689
00:52:06,675 --> 00:52:10,485
ball fields in the park and the experience that our residents have grown

690
00:52:11,045 --> 00:52:13,755
accustomed to, um, I I, I'm not sure

691
00:52:15,195 --> 00:52:18,765
relying solely on budgeted dollars is gonna be enough to give the public

692
00:52:19,875 --> 00:52:23,845
what they desire when it relates to primrose. So I, I guess those are my thoughts

693
00:52:24,005 --> 00:52:27,845
as y'all open for question. Well, I guess I have another question. So, I was

694
00:52:28,045 --> 00:52:31,965
a bit surprised to see this on the agenda, only because we just finished

695
00:52:32,085 --> 00:52:35,295
the budget and we actually moved, remind me, $3 million

696
00:52:36,585 --> 00:52:39,885
of general fund over to parks. Yes, ma'am. Yes. So we've already

697
00:52:40,775 --> 00:52:44,245
given it a buffer. And then I'm like, whoa, what is this coming

698
00:52:44,795 --> 00:52:48,725
just the next month? Mm-hmm. . So I was, I was caught off guard.

699
00:52:49,715 --> 00:52:53,455
okay. Um, I, whenever I look also

700
00:52:53,765 --> 00:52:57,565
at the numbers you run, and thank you for running those by the way. But for

701
00:52:58,105 --> 00:53:01,985
a home of $400,000, $354 a year,

702
00:53:02,705 --> 00:53:05,985
I think my total city tax, that's 50%.

703
00:53:06,925 --> 00:53:10,795
so I'm paying right now about $700 a year in city taxes.

704
00:53:11,975 --> 00:53:15,465
this would add that. And I, and I've talked to folks

705
00:53:16,495 --> 00:53:20,385
already about tax increases. There's not a lot of

706
00:53:20,785 --> 00:53:24,545
appetite. So I guess I, I know we need to move things forward. I guess I'm surprised.

707
00:53:25,045 --> 00:53:27,665
do we really need to go this far this year? Um,

708
00:53:29,905 --> 00:53:33,165
the, the people I've reached out to about probably 20 people

709
00:53:34,115 --> 00:53:38,085
they don't have an appetite for, but that's their vote, right? They don't

710
00:53:38,245 --> 00:53:41,665
have an appetite for this this year. So, okay. So

711
00:53:42,565 --> 00:53:46,205
a couple, couple comments and some questions. One, thank you for putting this

712
00:53:46,645 --> 00:53:50,245
together. Um, second, um, I'm fully supportive

713
00:53:50,845 --> 00:53:54,805
of a bond. I brought this up back in may. Mm-hmm. . 'cause I said we needed to do this if we're gonna move

714
00:53:55,005 --> 00:53:59,005
forward. 'cause even though nobody wants, uh, increased taxes, everybody else also

715
00:53:59,205 --> 00:54:03,125
keeps complaining that they want ball fields and everything else, and what pays for that.

716
00:54:03,745 --> 00:54:07,045
um, so that's a little bit of the comments there. I guess

717
00:54:07,855 --> 00:54:11,745
other thoughts and questions? Um, one,

718
00:54:12,045 --> 00:54:15,835
I I, I do want a little bit more clarification at the end on what

719
00:54:16,125 --> 00:54:20,125
is the six and a half million that we put in the budget for primrose park for phase two and

720
00:54:20,485 --> 00:54:24,405
three combining together, getting us versus what is in this entire 19

721
00:54:24,525 --> 00:54:28,525
that we didn't have before. So let's make sure we, we hit that up. I think that's very important.

722
00:54:29,665 --> 00:54:33,645
I'm curious as to the parking amount for primrose park whenever it's

723
00:54:33,925 --> 00:54:37,645
completed. Just 'cause like when we do have a community-wide event,

724
00:54:37,995 --> 00:54:41,865
what that would actually be, how many people we could actually have there for the

725
00:54:42,475 --> 00:54:46,325
tricentennial, uh, celebration, um, which would

726
00:54:46,525 --> 00:54:50,245
be great. Hopefully it doesn't take that long. Um, and then,

727
00:54:50,785 --> 00:54:54,685
you know, a couple other things to consider ongoing costs for all of these

728
00:54:54,815 --> 00:54:58,765
parks. What is it going to be? How many additional personnel are we gonna need? What is that

729
00:54:58,925 --> 00:55:02,685
run rate gonna be? What are the tax implications gonna be in order to support

730
00:55:03,045 --> 00:55:06,905
that? That's not from an ins uh, perspective. Um,

731
00:55:07,725 --> 00:55:11,605
I, I do, I do not think we should itemize this from a bond.

732
00:55:11,925 --> 00:55:15,845
I think it should be a parks and rec bond with things in general to be used from. I don't

733
00:55:16,045 --> 00:55:19,955
think all of these things should necessarily be done at the beginning. I think acquiring

734
00:55:20,675 --> 00:55:24,645
land and acquiring land now is one of the biggest things because if we don't do it now, there's not

735
00:55:24,725 --> 00:55:28,435
gonna be an available and it's gonna get more expensive. Um, I would propose

736
00:55:28,925 --> 00:55:32,525
that the dollar amount of the bond keep it below the amount

737
00:55:32,995 --> 00:55:36,395
that kicks over the higher mud payment amount. I think that's responsible

738
00:55:37,085 --> 00:55:41,025
there. And then the other thing that I think to keep in consideration here is

739
00:55:41,245 --> 00:55:45,245
also bond timing. How much of it now this year, we're seeing bond rates

740
00:55:45,585 --> 00:55:49,525
rising right now? Where do we feel like they're going to go? They're still traditionally

741
00:55:50,185 --> 00:55:54,165
low as compared to 30 years ago, but they're a lot higher than what they were

742
00:55:54,325 --> 00:55:58,325
three years ago. So I think that's important to get from a bond council. So I

743
00:55:58,445 --> 00:56:02,365
know there was a lot there, but I wanted to share all of that and so that you could take it in and just

744
00:56:02,525 --> 00:56:05,645
have some, some feedback from it. And then maybe if you can answer the question on the primrose,

745
00:56:06,595 --> 00:56:07,085
that would be helpful.

746
00:56:11,415 --> 00:56:14,515
primrose, currently there is, um,

747
00:56:16,235 --> 00:56:19,735
what was budgeted was 3.1 for fy 24, which

748
00:56:20,555 --> 00:56:23,805
technically was 3.1 for phase two for construction.

749
00:56:24,825 --> 00:56:28,645
and then with this budget phase three, the $3 million was allocated

750
00:56:29,125 --> 00:56:32,805
for phase three. So that, that left that total

751
00:56:33,145 --> 00:56:37,105
to 6.1 for this year for construction of phase two. And

752
00:56:37,325 --> 00:56:39,485
then design and construction of phase three.

753
00:56:41,625 --> 00:56:44,975
currently we cannot build phase two

754
00:56:45,895 --> 00:56:49,345
for $6.1 million. And tonight we just approved 559,000

755
00:56:50,875 --> 00:56:54,755
that would come out of that $3 million that was earmarked for phase

756
00:56:55,075 --> 00:56:58,955
three. What we showed on the presentation

757
00:56:59,475 --> 00:57:03,395
tonight was the, was for just construction without contingency was

758
00:57:03,595 --> 00:57:07,455
$15 million for primrose. That's for phase two and phase three. But that does not

759
00:57:07,675 --> 00:57:11,335
take into consideration the 6.1 less the

760
00:57:11,695 --> 00:57:15,635
design contract that was just awarded tonight. And we showed that just in a way to

761
00:57:15,715 --> 00:57:19,555
be able to show kind of where we are with the need for primrose. And then

762
00:57:19,935 --> 00:57:23,915
of course, you know, I, if y'all want to see options of, okay, so what does that

763
00:57:24,075 --> 00:57:27,785
look like? Um, taking into consideration the 6 million. There's

764
00:57:28,315 --> 00:57:31,995
a, there's a lot of ways that it can go. I think because if we

765
00:57:32,395 --> 00:57:36,035
considered the bond for the may election, then primrose phase two

766
00:57:36,655 --> 00:57:40,635
is almost finished with design. As I mentioned. We've gone through a lot

767
00:57:40,855 --> 00:57:44,705
to try and figure out how to bring this into budget to, to somehow even

768
00:57:45,085 --> 00:57:48,975
close to, it was not an impo it was not possible for 3.1, but

769
00:57:49,215 --> 00:57:53,005
to try and somehow get us close to the $6 million. So we've

770
00:57:53,355 --> 00:57:56,835
spent a lot of time going through, exploring a lot of different avenues,

771
00:57:57,535 --> 00:58:01,455
um, looking at what we could potentially delay, um, how

772
00:58:01,695 --> 00:58:05,475
we could do that. But ultimately, like I said, we wanna build a park that

773
00:58:05,855 --> 00:58:09,555
we can all be proud of, not build a park that has no lights,

774
00:58:10,855 --> 00:58:14,755
um, has bare bones of a lot of things, right? Because

775
00:58:16,165 --> 00:58:19,895
after all this time, if we do that and then you can't even play during

776
00:58:20,335 --> 00:58:23,585
the spring because of the time change and all those things, then

777
00:58:24,595 --> 00:58:28,375
ultimately it's not really the most usable part for our community. So we,

778
00:58:28,695 --> 00:58:32,475
we explored a lot of avenues and the way of how do we, how do we,

779
00:58:32,735 --> 00:58:36,495
how do we make this happen? So ultimately tonight we showed you the 15 million

780
00:58:37,115 --> 00:58:41,095
for both. And then if, if we go

781
00:58:41,295 --> 00:58:45,195
forward with a may bond, if that was something that y'all were interested in, phase two

782
00:58:46,035 --> 00:58:49,895
is almost finished with design. So we could be, depending on if

783
00:58:50,055 --> 00:58:53,835
there was funding, you know, available, then we could be potentially looking at

784
00:58:54,545 --> 00:58:58,495
going out for bids and being able to soon start construction. But we have to

785
00:58:58,575 --> 00:59:02,575
have enough dollars for it. So if we, that would

786
00:59:02,735 --> 00:59:05,615
be before the may election, potentially could be before the may election

787
00:59:07,355 --> 00:59:11,275
if we, so I'll, I'll, I'll stop, I'll stop you there just for a second. Um,

788
00:59:12,335 --> 00:59:16,095
I, I appreciate all of that. Um, I'm still, again, supportive

789
00:59:16,575 --> 00:59:20,535
of bond 'cause I need, I think we need those funds to be there when we're ready.

790
00:59:21,765 --> 00:59:25,765
I think we have to have a separate review of the project in general because we just approved

791
00:59:25,885 --> 00:59:29,685
this back in october and we're now saying that not only the 3 million

792
00:59:30,205 --> 00:59:34,085
that we put in, but the additional 3 million on top of it isn't gonna

793
00:59:34,305 --> 00:59:38,075
pay for the two, phase two and phase three, where we both agreed, I've got serious

794
00:59:38,685 --> 00:59:42,525
concerns as a citizens, as a taxpayer to say, what you're gonna go

795
00:59:42,745 --> 00:59:46,685
and give me, you're gonna go and we're gonna give you more money and this is gonna

796
00:59:46,845 --> 00:59:50,445
keep going out. I mean, we grilled richard weatherly on our water projects.

797
00:59:51,225 --> 00:59:55,125
and honestly, like any further projects going forward, gonna

798
00:59:55,445 --> 00:59:59,445
have more scrutiny, I believe from this council. If we continue to run like

799
00:59:59,685 --> 01:00:03,605
this. Again, it separates it from the bond thing, but, and I, I

800
01:00:03,725 --> 01:00:07,725
do want, I do want citizens to know that just because we have

801
01:00:07,885 --> 01:00:11,765
it on a bond, and even if that gets passed, it still goes through us to approve the

802
01:00:11,965 --> 01:00:15,845
projects. The funds might be there and it might be available, but if we don't feel like it

803
01:00:16,325 --> 01:00:19,945
is ready or we're ready to take this on, like we're not gonna do it. That's

804
01:00:20,425 --> 01:00:24,275
at least what I wanna do. But, but I'm not even sure that I'm comfortable with the numbers that

805
01:00:24,565 --> 01:00:27,935
we've been presented because of just what you said that, that we had 3 million

806
01:00:28,585 --> 01:00:32,485
and it wasn't enough. We thought it was, so we put put in more and now we're coming

807
01:00:32,725 --> 01:00:36,525
back and saying, well, that's just bare bones that we don't have lights. And I'm going, I,

808
01:00:36,745 --> 01:00:40,445
I'm just, I think we need a little screeching halt here to revisit

809
01:00:41,185 --> 01:00:44,845
and get us back on a common page. And I have concerns

810
01:00:45,325 --> 01:00:49,245
of going with these bond dollars when we don't, I don't feel confident

811
01:00:49,725 --> 01:00:53,365
in the dollars, I don't feel confident against. So let, let me give a little bit of context

812
01:00:54,345 --> 01:00:57,305
to, 'cause I had this conversation as soon as, um,

813
01:01:00,335 --> 01:01:04,165
ramona called and said, hey, would you consider even hearing, uh, about

814
01:01:04,635 --> 01:01:08,515
a park bond? And I said, yeah, I think it's, it's important. So I called

815
01:01:08,675 --> 01:01:12,675
staff and said, all right, where are we? Where are we at? And they had already begun to have that

816
01:01:12,835 --> 01:01:16,795
conversation as well because it was mentioned at a, uh, parks committee,

817
01:01:17,575 --> 01:01:21,475
um, meeting. And so this, this dialogue began and it was one

818
01:01:21,675 --> 01:01:25,555
of the first questions I asked is, all right, where, where's this

819
01:01:25,715 --> 01:01:29,675
delta? Um, and it was the first question I asked tiffany, we're gonna have to

820
01:01:29,755 --> 01:01:33,595
explain the delta. And what I came to realize

821
01:01:34,735 --> 01:01:38,405
is the park that was discussed prior

822
01:01:39,055 --> 01:01:42,935
to any of us sitting here was

823
01:01:43,465 --> 01:01:46,625
more of an open space park that

824
01:01:47,635 --> 01:01:50,635
provided a place where kids could practice

825
01:01:51,715 --> 01:01:55,435
baseball, those kinds of things. Um, softball,

826
01:01:56,355 --> 01:02:00,165
whatever, little league. Um, but it was more of kind of that practice field

827
01:02:00,785 --> 01:02:04,595
concept, not the full on ball field

828
01:02:04,945 --> 01:02:08,765
concept. Then as this council began

829
01:02:09,115 --> 01:02:13,055
to have conversations a couple of years ago, it evolved into, at

830
01:02:13,295 --> 01:02:17,255
one point in time a field that even had movable fences so

831
01:02:17,475 --> 01:02:21,085
that you could either play soccer or play baseball because we didn't

832
01:02:21,485 --> 01:02:25,305
have, um, the soccer fields that we now have in tamron

833
01:02:25,835 --> 01:02:29,785
west that included no, no lights. It didn't include the

834
01:02:30,005 --> 01:02:33,925
kind of drainage that would be required to truly play little league. Um, didn't

835
01:02:34,325 --> 01:02:38,245
have that same kind of infill. Um, I remember distinctly because

836
01:02:38,585 --> 01:02:42,565
mr. Martin, um, raised concerns at that time that we

837
01:02:42,725 --> 01:02:46,655
weren't even building the appropriate fields. Right?

838
01:02:47,305 --> 01:02:51,205
and so I believe part of what's happened through that

839
01:02:51,445 --> 01:02:55,405
design process, even with half is this, the ball

840
01:02:55,845 --> 01:02:59,185
fields have evolved to a point of

841
01:03:00,255 --> 01:03:03,385
truly having little league, um,

842
01:03:04,565 --> 01:03:08,505
concepts. Now, we do have the concept drawings from two or three years ago,

843
01:03:09,185 --> 01:03:13,045
but that was that movable fence and it wasn't lighted and it, nor was it sprinkled.

844
01:03:13,905 --> 01:03:17,755
uh, nor were there sprinklers in those equations. So when

845
01:03:18,045 --> 01:03:21,635
you start ta talking about irrigation lighting, and I'm not trying to justify

846
01:03:22,305 --> 01:03:25,645
all of the increases, but I am saying that's where some of the increases

847
01:03:26,355 --> 01:03:29,875
have come is this has evolved, um, from

848
01:03:31,125 --> 01:03:34,625
practice fields to ball fields. But I agree 100%

849
01:03:36,275 --> 01:03:40,025
that should we go out to bond before we, before we get

850
01:03:40,315 --> 01:03:44,205
bond, we pro we need to drill down on some of these, some of

851
01:03:44,325 --> 01:03:48,115
these costs to ensure from a project management perspective that

852
01:03:48,405 --> 01:03:52,165
the 19 million is enough, or if it's too much,

853
01:03:52,825 --> 01:03:56,725
or if there's some engineering that needs to take place. I mean, and this is january.

854
01:03:57,625 --> 01:04:00,085
and so if why we got presented this

855
01:04:01,715 --> 01:04:05,065
so quickly, it feels like it was just kind of rushed through to me, right?

856
01:04:05,755 --> 01:04:09,675
is so that we can get it on the may ballot that that doesn't buy

857
01:04:09,895 --> 01:04:13,715
it for me. What buys it for me is to get

858
01:04:13,935 --> 01:04:17,515
it accurate. Something that I am comfortable in

859
01:04:18,135 --> 01:04:21,815
representing to my constituents, right? Not to just go rush something,

860
01:04:22,335 --> 01:04:26,335
just to have it on a bond election. And, and so I still need

861
01:04:26,755 --> 01:04:30,615
an answer as to the money that we put in and what we're gonna be able

862
01:04:30,775 --> 01:04:34,675
to produce this year. I'm not confident in that. So

863
01:04:36,135 --> 01:04:40,035
I, I mean, that's where I am is there's, there's no way I, I can't take this to

864
01:04:40,275 --> 01:04:44,165
my neighbors. I can't take this to anybody to go represent this right now. Yeah.

865
01:04:44,455 --> 01:04:48,455
I think the, I think the other part, uh, uh, I will comment on two of the

866
01:04:48,535 --> 01:04:52,335
pieces. One on the timing issue. Um, one, I don't think we're

867
01:04:52,575 --> 01:04:55,935
ready. I don't think we're ready for, for this may election.

868
01:04:56,595 --> 01:05:00,495
and there'd be a difference when you talk about deadlines, there'd be a difference if there was

869
01:05:00,695 --> 01:05:04,225
a, we always call it in business a compelling event. Is there a compelling

870
01:05:04,945 --> 01:05:08,535
event in june that we need to have those funds from a bonds?

871
01:05:09,045 --> 01:05:12,635
what are we gonna go do in june that we couldn't do, let's say in

872
01:05:13,255 --> 01:05:16,935
november of next year or this year by having it on election that year.

873
01:05:17,615 --> 01:05:21,465
right. So I think we've got a lot of work to do. I don't see a compelling event. Yes,

874
01:05:21,715 --> 01:05:25,585
it's always better to do it earlier. And I'm not saying take this out forever, but

875
01:05:25,995 --> 01:05:29,565
there's a lot of question here. And while I understand there might be some different

876
01:05:30,735 --> 01:05:34,445
value engineering or, or, uh, let's, let's call it all the

877
01:05:35,085 --> 01:05:38,995
fulcher bells and whistles as we like to have it, and we expect it out here, even

878
01:05:39,285 --> 01:05:43,245
though we don't like to pay for it. Um, I, I'm, I

879
01:05:43,365 --> 01:05:45,825
don't see how that comes into play when you budget $6 million

880
01:05:47,435 --> 01:05:50,915
that then turns into 15 plus additional couple million of contingency.

881
01:05:52,245 --> 01:05:55,845
I just don't see where nine plus million of additional

882
01:05:56,555 --> 01:06:00,505
add-ons come when you've already done the land. You've already done the

883
01:06:00,725 --> 01:06:04,585
field work. I mean, those are the bigger infrastructure pieces. I wanna see what those details are

884
01:06:05,265 --> 01:06:08,875
on that, on that delta yeah. Is half with us tonight,

885
01:06:09,625 --> 01:06:13,165
and I'm sure they've provided some of the, the numbers,

886
01:06:14,145 --> 01:06:18,055
um, the values. Yes. Um, could

887
01:06:18,405 --> 01:06:21,975
you all possibly speak as to, um, those

888
01:06:22,785 --> 01:06:26,525
and what, and, and I think to mr. K's point,

889
01:06:26,945 --> 01:06:30,445
um, we are nearing completion

890
01:06:31,115 --> 01:06:35,115
of design, uh, for phase two. What is the dollar

891
01:06:35,605 --> 01:06:39,525
value of phase two alone,

892
01:06:40,375 --> 01:06:43,795
or to get started prior to, uh, november,

893
01:06:44,415 --> 01:06:48,275
um, election? Certainly, and if I can just a moment on the,

894
01:06:48,895 --> 01:06:52,515
we, we, well, I understand the term rush. We did work

895
01:06:52,905 --> 01:06:56,755
fast, but I've spent a lot of time and spent a lot of diligent

896
01:06:56,955 --> 01:07:00,755
effort into going through these numbers. So I understand the, the differences

897
01:07:01,345 --> 01:07:05,035
here. Phase three was, um, in the may, cip

898
01:07:05,575 --> 01:07:09,555
was shown over $4 million. So three, the $3 million that was

899
01:07:09,995 --> 01:07:13,565
provided for phase three per the mac cip

900
01:07:14,475 --> 01:07:18,445
that was presented. Phase three was four point, roughly about $4.4 million.

901
01:07:20,265 --> 01:07:23,955
so it was, you know, that was for construction and design for what was projected.

902
01:07:25,065 --> 01:07:28,845
um, so any, any any of that

903
01:07:29,075 --> 01:07:32,945
deviation though, when we approved the budget was not called out to say,

904
01:07:34,025 --> 01:07:37,965
yes, if we moved over 3 million, that's fine, but it's not gonna get us everything

905
01:07:38,405 --> 01:07:42,175
we want. That that was what we did not get at that piece. We understand

906
01:07:42,845 --> 01:07:46,785
that it was 4 million at one point, and we budgeted an additional three, but it

907
01:07:47,005 --> 01:07:50,345
was not clear that it wasn't gonna have everything in it. Right. Now you're telling us

908
01:07:51,355 --> 01:07:55,055
that wouldn't even pay for phase two construction, let alone phase

909
01:07:55,405 --> 01:07:59,325
three, which we've approved an amendment here to get the design on phase

910
01:07:59,525 --> 01:08:03,465
three. Which begs the question, what design are

911
01:08:03,685 --> 01:08:07,685
we putting in phase three now that we just approved to be amended? Because it is,

912
01:08:08,065 --> 01:08:11,765
is it the small scope that was originally planned, or is it the scope based

913
01:08:12,115 --> 01:08:16,085
upon having a park bond that includes $19 million for the park

914
01:08:16,225 --> 01:08:20,105
to finish it? The scope didn't change based off of the bond, the scope. We

915
01:08:20,325 --> 01:08:24,285
worked through the scope and have been working through the scope for several months of trying

916
01:08:24,605 --> 01:08:28,355
to make all of this work. Um, so the scope is based off of the master plan

917
01:08:28,645 --> 01:08:32,125
of in the, the conceptual image that's shown in that agenda item,

918
01:08:33,695 --> 01:08:37,545
which has been available for three years now. Um, the,

919
01:08:37,825 --> 01:08:41,755
the addition is only to my knowledge from

920
01:08:42,045 --> 01:08:45,905
that conceptual plan. The only addition is sprinklers and lights. But

921
01:08:46,125 --> 01:08:49,875
deborah, so three years speak deborah? No, go ahead. Okay. The parks committee

922
01:08:50,545 --> 01:08:53,885
has been talking about this for four months. It's not like we're rushing into it.

923
01:08:54,555 --> 01:08:57,445
nothing's been rushed. It's been diligently gone through.

924
01:08:58,575 --> 01:09:02,365
okay. Just because they haven't brought it all to here each time. It

925
01:09:02,585 --> 01:09:06,005
has been diligently gone through for four months.

926
01:09:06,745 --> 01:09:10,585
I'm, I didn't say that this was rushed. I'm saying bringing it to bond in

927
01:09:10,865 --> 01:09:14,675
may is what I believe is rushed. I appreciate all their efforts. It's

928
01:09:14,965 --> 01:09:18,925
not checking all the boxes for me to feel comfortable with it. That's what I'm

929
01:09:19,125 --> 01:09:23,005
saying. I'm not saying this was rushed to this, it's just we're not there at

930
01:09:23,165 --> 01:09:27,025
this point. I just wanna make sure that that was brought forth. Yeah. What I'm interested in is,

931
01:09:27,305 --> 01:09:31,115
uh, I feel like there are a lot of moving targets that

932
01:09:31,405 --> 01:09:34,245
every time we come and visit this, that, you know,

933
01:09:35,805 --> 01:09:39,445
I, I only joined last may, so I I don't have a whole lot of history on this.

934
01:09:40,305 --> 01:09:43,835
um, so whatever the three and 3.1 million last

935
01:09:44,315 --> 01:09:46,645
year that we, um, signed to it,

936
01:09:48,345 --> 01:09:52,125
if that wasn't insufficient, why was not that

937
01:09:52,635 --> 01:09:56,055
estimated four months ago? I mean, it's only four months,

938
01:09:57,095 --> 01:10:00,955
right? So, and why was that not communicated that

939
01:10:01,465 --> 01:10:05,125
we could look at and say, okay, and, uh, mr. Knape didn't make this point.

940
01:10:05,545 --> 01:10:08,965
so instead of repeating, I would say, let's set a target.

941
01:10:09,655 --> 01:10:13,645
let's get an estimate, and let's say that this is what it's going to be instead

942
01:10:14,125 --> 01:10:18,025
of moving targets every few months, that that just does not show us in,

943
01:10:18,585 --> 01:10:22,525
you know, good faith despite of all the hard work that you guys have done. Yeah. And I

944
01:10:22,645 --> 01:10:26,385
think to that point, the truth is, um, phase two,

945
01:10:27,865 --> 01:10:30,265
um, came to council and went to design

946
01:10:32,585 --> 01:10:35,795
when, I mean, we're talking probably 2020

947
01:10:37,425 --> 01:10:41,175
that we sent this to design. So our,

948
01:10:41,535 --> 01:10:45,215
and maybe 21 is when half got it. Um, so

949
01:10:45,605 --> 01:10:48,625
we're, we're now three years removed

950
01:10:50,065 --> 01:10:53,915
from, from starting, starting design. So to that

951
01:10:54,115 --> 01:10:57,435
point there, there probably should have been some updates to the cip along the way.

952
01:10:58,215 --> 01:11:01,995
um, anyway, so I think back to the original question, potentially for

953
01:11:02,385 --> 01:11:06,385
half, um, what

954
01:11:06,745 --> 01:11:10,175
does the 6 million get?

955
01:11:10,775 --> 01:11:14,765
should we not, not, not go out for a bond

956
01:11:15,005 --> 01:11:18,865
package to be able to begin construction on this phase two? Or

957
01:11:19,085 --> 01:11:21,855
is it even, are we even in the ballpark we're

958
01:11:23,505 --> 01:11:27,405
to even get started? So, and I know the reason we moved monies, so just

959
01:11:27,785 --> 01:11:30,805
for everybody's clarity, the reason in october

960
01:11:32,265 --> 01:11:36,165
we combined was a belief that design costs for phase

961
01:11:36,455 --> 01:11:40,285
three would be reduced. Um, if we went

962
01:11:40,485 --> 01:11:44,125
ahead and included it on this on and began to work on design

963
01:11:44,985 --> 01:11:48,435
and construction costs would be significantly reduced,

964
01:11:49,275 --> 01:11:53,085
thus the 1.4 savings, because we were only

965
01:11:53,415 --> 01:11:56,445
mobilizing crews one time instead of multiple mobilizations.

966
01:11:57,785 --> 01:12:00,925
so that was the reason for the move of the monies and to proceed,

967
01:12:01,825 --> 01:12:05,725
um, with assurances at the time that that 6 million would, would come close

968
01:12:06,045 --> 01:12:07,745
to getting the job done. So,

969
01:12:10,115 --> 01:12:13,985
good evening, I'm casey collins with me is kristen leblanc. Uh,

970
01:12:14,215 --> 01:12:18,025
we've been running the project primrose for you. So to um,

971
01:12:19,105 --> 01:12:23,045
answer the, one of the big questions, uh, some of the costs that were

972
01:12:23,245 --> 01:12:26,985
initially prepared when the concept was first, uh,

973
01:12:27,645 --> 01:12:31,615
included in the parks master plan, um, that we've come to

974
01:12:31,775 --> 01:12:34,895
realize, uh, you know, being in a rural area for this project,

975
01:12:36,815 --> 01:12:40,745
some of the electrical infrastructure, we have single phase power. So as

976
01:12:40,945 --> 01:12:44,105
we're going through, we're adding the lighting for the, the park project as we talked about.

977
01:12:45,045 --> 01:12:49,035
um, you know, that's a $900,000 line item, just the electrical alone.

978
01:12:50,045 --> 01:12:53,585
uh, you know, it'd be more efficient for us to have three phase power, which we don't have.

979
01:12:54,245 --> 01:12:58,145
uh, it's not very close to the site, so it'd be very cost proative for

980
01:12:58,305 --> 01:13:01,425
us to even bring it to the site. Uh, some additional cost overruns.

981
01:13:02,885 --> 01:13:06,545
um, things that we had not considered, I mean, just the,

982
01:13:07,405 --> 01:13:10,765
the overall cost with inflation itself, um,

983
01:13:11,455 --> 01:13:14,745
brought the pro pro the budget way, uh, above what we thought.

984
01:13:15,485 --> 01:13:19,465
um, I would say we've skinned this every which way

985
01:13:19,625 --> 01:13:23,025
you possibly can look at it to try to get it within budget. With value engineering,

986
01:13:24,005 --> 01:13:27,785
uh, one of the things that we were considering at the very beginning was sports

987
01:13:28,345 --> 01:13:31,865
lighting for the fields. That's another million dollar ticket line item.

988
01:13:32,685 --> 01:13:36,505
so an original budget for phase three of

989
01:13:36,745 --> 01:13:40,585
2.5 or 3 million. And you look at the electrical infrastructure, you

990
01:13:40,805 --> 01:13:43,525
look at sports field lighting at close to 2 million,

991
01:13:44,835 --> 01:13:48,405
that doesn't get you fields, that doesn't get your parking. And some of the other amenities

992
01:13:48,925 --> 01:13:52,725
that we're trying to include. So I'll add utilities to that.

993
01:13:53,635 --> 01:13:57,415
your only utilities to serve this site are on dixon.

994
01:13:58,385 --> 01:14:02,145
and you're extending those all the way across that property and

995
01:14:02,795 --> 01:14:06,595
down towards huggins. That's an exceptionally large

996
01:14:07,375 --> 01:14:11,205
part of the cost. So if you take electrical improvements

997
01:14:12,065 --> 01:14:16,045
for, can you scoot up to the mic so that people can hear, sorry. If you take the electrical improvements,

998
01:14:16,825 --> 01:14:20,525
the field lighting the utilities, that's $3 million right

999
01:14:20,845 --> 01:14:24,785
there. And that's, you're not, you're not building a field, you're not putting any parking in

1000
01:14:25,075 --> 01:14:28,125
nothing. So I get I guess,

1001
01:14:29,225 --> 01:14:32,705
go ahead. Oh, sorry, ,

1002
01:14:34,645 --> 01:14:37,395
I, I was just gonna say, you know, we had a really good

1003
01:14:38,865 --> 01:14:42,765
two or three years ago, and I just thought, I, I need to pull it back up because we did

1004
01:14:42,965 --> 01:14:46,555
have estimates in that, uh, parks master plan

1005
01:14:47,545 --> 01:14:51,525
and, and not a lot, we had some detail, we had enough

1006
01:14:51,765 --> 01:14:55,665
detail to give us numbers, but it feels like to me, just like we did our

1007
01:14:55,885 --> 01:14:59,685
water and wastewater master plan, we need to do, we need to have another

1008
01:15:00,655 --> 01:15:04,625
parks master plan to update and, and add

1009
01:15:04,845 --> 01:15:08,605
the new gyms or what, you know, whatever we want, and bring that back

1010
01:15:08,885 --> 01:15:12,765
because there's no picture. I think it, it's the nickel and dimming

1011
01:15:13,345 --> 01:15:17,285
and the surpr the surprises. And as you say, well, what you

1012
01:15:17,445 --> 01:15:20,485
want now is you gotta have utilities. So this is big enough dollars,

1013
01:15:21,625 --> 01:15:25,465
um, that I think that needs to happen so that we

1014
01:15:25,825 --> 01:15:29,805
can feel more confident in what we're doing. Certainly. But still, the question

1015
01:15:29,885 --> 01:15:31,985
hasn't been answered. What does $6.1 million

1016
01:15:33,945 --> 01:15:37,885
get us? If I can real quick answer that

1017
01:15:38,145 --> 01:15:41,795
and then we can answer the 6.1. So the master plan does provide

1018
01:15:42,445 --> 01:15:46,385
a cost estimate, and the cost estimate for from the master plan for

1019
01:15:46,605 --> 01:15:50,585
primrose was $7.5 million. But I can tell you through my

1020
01:15:50,805 --> 01:15:54,785
review based off of paths, cost estimate for phase two, and

1021
01:15:55,005 --> 01:15:58,905
then reviewing the cost estimates projected in the master plan for

1022
01:15:59,145 --> 01:16:03,005
all of the parts or all of the projects that we presented tonight. There's great discrepancies

1023
01:16:04,025 --> 01:16:07,405
in concrete. So from the last time that the master plan was updated,

1024
01:16:08,245 --> 01:16:12,205
I believe the concrete cost, um, was I, I need

1025
01:16:12,365 --> 01:16:16,365
to look at my notes, but I, I wanna say it was like $22 a square foot or something. Good point.

1026
01:16:16,665 --> 01:16:20,525
but, but my, but where I'm going is that was done two or

1027
01:16:20,725 --> 01:16:24,605
three years ago. We need to go back and redo that so that we're not

1028
01:16:24,765 --> 01:16:28,645
surprised so that we, we have an accurate picture vision of what

1029
01:16:28,885 --> 01:16:32,805
we're gonna get plus the dollars, just like we did. Yeah. We didn't

1030
01:16:33,045 --> 01:16:37,025
go use old water and wastewater manage. So let, let me pause there and say

1031
01:16:37,245 --> 01:16:40,805
that they have all of those numbers now, um, the updated

1032
01:16:41,395 --> 01:16:45,065
numbers from half, and I'm sure it could distribute, um,

1033
01:16:45,815 --> 01:16:49,805
those to counsel, correct? You've got the updated estimates. So we

1034
01:16:49,845 --> 01:16:52,925
have, it's how we got to the 19 million, well, the 19 million

1035
01:16:53,955 --> 01:16:57,085
assumes that, so it takes the cost estimate that we have for phase two,

1036
01:16:58,065 --> 01:17:01,895
the projected cost that was provided to us at one point for phase

1037
01:17:02,255 --> 01:17:06,125
three. And then it, I built in an inflation factor into it, as well

1038
01:17:06,285 --> 01:17:09,805
as our construction material testing that's required. So some of of those things are not calculated

1039
01:17:10,915 --> 01:17:14,795
into the master plan, but, but, but it's a much broader true

1040
01:17:15,085 --> 01:17:18,925
picture of what the cost of the project is today. We have

1041
01:17:19,125 --> 01:17:23,025
a, we have a much clearer cost projection. Um,

1042
01:17:23,305 --> 01:17:27,045
and that's what I'm saying, um, counsel probably needs to review

1043
01:17:27,405 --> 01:17:30,945
closely, is that updated cost? Yeah. And, and uh,

1044
01:17:32,115 --> 01:17:35,995
jack, I think this comment more for you just in general across the board, we are having this

1045
01:17:36,665 --> 01:17:40,205
across all departments, across all projects. So we should probably look at this.

1046
01:17:41,065 --> 01:17:44,985
we do not, we do not wanna be nitpicking line item by line item. We

1047
01:17:45,205 --> 01:17:49,065
don't want to, but every single project keeps coming up

1048
01:17:49,875 --> 01:17:53,725
with 50% overruns. I mean, like, we're all cringing when water

1049
01:17:53,965 --> 01:17:57,875
plant number two is gonna come up for an amendment to this council, because

1050
01:17:58,375 --> 01:18:02,305
we're like, really? So that's where the frustration comes. If

1051
01:18:02,525 --> 01:18:06,205
you can provide us with the deltas, this is what it was,

1052
01:18:07,205 --> 01:18:10,345
a this is what it is, b here's what the explanation is,

1053
01:18:11,435 --> 01:18:15,225
that would help us rather than c it. Because all we're seeing now

1054
01:18:15,445 --> 01:18:19,195
is, is we're seeing, hey, you say it was previously in the master plan,

1055
01:18:19,485 --> 01:18:22,955
7 million. If I add the current six plus

1056
01:18:23,725 --> 01:18:27,405
whatever we did on phase one plus the additional 19 that you're asking

1057
01:18:27,905 --> 01:18:31,255
now, we're talking more than 25 million total on a project that originally

1058
01:18:31,925 --> 01:18:35,845
was set out to be seven. Only point of correction is the 19 includes

1059
01:18:36,405 --> 01:18:40,085
the six. No. So you get to decide, you get to decide what you do with that

1060
01:18:40,585 --> 01:18:44,525
six I, that's the only thing not considered. The only

1061
01:18:44,645 --> 01:18:48,085
thing that's not considered is the 400,000. That's our 480, 490

1062
01:18:50,145 --> 01:18:53,885
that's already spent for design. Uh, I, let's get clarification, because

1063
01:18:54,705 --> 01:18:58,565
if it wasn't, if it wasn't the 19 million, then we wouldn't have to go out for as

1064
01:18:58,725 --> 01:19:02,705
much bond dollars because you'd subtract the six off of it. And that's not what's happening. So

1065
01:19:02,925 --> 01:19:06,735
the bond dollars is 12? No. So the, the, the right.

1066
01:19:07,195 --> 01:19:11,065
what are you planning to do? Six I I the

1067
01:19:11,285 --> 01:19:15,275
six, the, the total cost moving forward, not, not counting what we already

1068
01:19:15,815 --> 01:19:19,415
spent in land purchase. We already spent in phase

1069
01:19:19,905 --> 01:19:23,545
one and we already spent in design on phase two. Um,

1070
01:19:23,985 --> 01:19:27,825
the total, none of that is projected remaining cost. The total remaining cost for

1071
01:19:28,045 --> 01:19:31,965
the project minus the 500 for design in phase three is 19 million,

1072
01:19:33,085 --> 01:19:37,045
whatever the number is, not 25. That 19 million is with continue.

1073
01:19:37,185 --> 01:19:41,115
so you counsel will have a decision to make at some point in time what

1074
01:19:41,405 --> 01:19:45,365
to do with the 6 million, whether they apply that towards the purchase price

1075
01:19:45,605 --> 01:19:48,865
and you only bond at 13 million. Or

1076
01:19:49,705 --> 01:19:53,635
if you want to pull that back into the general fund,

1077
01:19:54,105 --> 01:19:57,905
you will have a decision to make. Because that was one of the conversations is

1078
01:19:58,125 --> 01:20:01,965
do you include the six that's already been budgeted or, and I said, put the

1079
01:20:02,165 --> 01:20:05,985
big numbers. So the council, we're not playing a game there, there's no, it,

1080
01:20:06,315 --> 01:20:10,285
it's, it's fully transparent. This is now the total cost of

1081
01:20:10,445 --> 01:20:14,425
the remaining project. So there is $6 million, well, 500 and

1082
01:20:15,155 --> 01:20:19,105
400, five 5,000,460 basically, um,

1083
01:20:19,955 --> 01:20:23,645
remaining dollars. Um, that council will have a decision

1084
01:20:24,105 --> 01:20:28,065
how they want to apply that, whether it's toward the bond to

1085
01:20:28,285 --> 01:20:32,165
reduce the, the bond cost or to absorb it back into

1086
01:20:32,445 --> 01:20:36,285
the general fund because it hasn't been spent or to the park

1087
01:20:36,495 --> 01:20:40,445
leave a balance in the parks fund. Yeah, I think the decision here

1088
01:20:40,955 --> 01:20:44,885
is not really for today to make, but in my opinion, what

1089
01:20:45,195 --> 01:20:49,175
was estimated three years ago, if it's not valid, then we have to

1090
01:20:49,335 --> 01:20:52,965
reduce our expectations or we have to be able to pay for it more.

1091
01:20:53,715 --> 01:20:57,335
and I don't think we are ready to do either. And that's why the stalemate is there.

1092
01:20:59,185 --> 01:21:03,145
I would additionally like to add, I I think we need

1093
01:21:03,385 --> 01:21:07,365
to look at some of the bids that are coming in.

1094
01:21:07,985 --> 01:21:11,585
I know they all look familiar. They all look around the same

1095
01:21:12,105 --> 01:21:16,025
ballpark. I'm highly worried of what, what I'm hearing as being a

1096
01:21:16,345 --> 01:21:20,255
ful tax, a re willingness to pay. And I would be very

1097
01:21:20,735 --> 01:21:24,185
concerned to see what other cities are paying for similar projects

1098
01:21:25,175 --> 01:21:29,105
because everybody thinks that, oh, this is re look at those

1099
01:21:29,365 --> 01:21:33,225
medium incomes and let's, let's tear those up. And I'm very concerned

1100
01:21:33,585 --> 01:21:36,535
if that's what's happening. We gotta start being pushing back because

1101
01:21:38,145 --> 01:21:41,875
somebody's gonna want to take the work at some point. Well, and, and to that, which

1102
01:21:42,345 --> 01:21:45,765
I did forget when I saw this, I went and printed the last county

1103
01:21:46,815 --> 01:21:50,745
bond projects and there's a ton. There's, I I,

1104
01:21:51,215 --> 01:21:54,785
I've got it in my bag, I could pull it out. I, but I wanna say it's $115 million

1105
01:21:56,845 --> 01:22:00,705
in fort bend county parks projects. And that

1106
01:22:00,945 --> 01:22:04,865
is not for county projects, that is for sugar lane. All these

1107
01:22:05,075 --> 01:22:08,745
small city projects are in there also. So to your point,

1108
01:22:09,545 --> 01:22:13,385
I don't quite understand that either. Why it or do we need to be more integrated?

1109
01:22:14,085 --> 01:22:18,025
do we need to be, uh, having more discussions with the

1110
01:22:18,185 --> 01:22:22,145
county? But, but that is the case, is this is putting a lot and we're already

1111
01:22:22,225 --> 01:22:26,065
paying county taxes too. So we actually did discuss,

1112
01:22:26,685 --> 01:22:30,545
um, before the county bond, and we did request some projects to be considered

1113
01:22:30,785 --> 01:22:34,625
in the bond. Um, but ultimately if we did that, they would be county owned

1114
01:22:35,045 --> 01:22:37,905
and they would no longer be city owned if they were to be considered.

1115
01:22:40,375 --> 01:22:43,865
the assistance finds that if they get a part to use, whether

1116
01:22:44,415 --> 01:22:48,315
the county does in the city doesn't matter. And, and

1117
01:22:48,535 --> 01:22:51,215
again, I, I'll pull it out, but I, I think it was in the neighborhood, $115 million.

1118
01:22:52,875 --> 01:22:56,645
it was big, big. Again, I'm gonna request

1119
01:22:57,275 --> 01:23:01,045
some sort of an input from, uh, the, uh, city staff here

1120
01:23:01,505 --> 01:23:05,205
as to the data analysis that we really need on these projects. Because

1121
01:23:05,855 --> 01:23:09,705
50% or a hundred percent increase is not something that we can just, uh,

1122
01:23:10,125 --> 01:23:13,865
shove under the carpet. Now we need to know why, what, and if

1123
01:23:14,225 --> 01:23:18,085
I'm, I'm willing to go even into nitty grittys of it. I'm still waiting for the freezer

1124
01:23:18,355 --> 01:23:22,125
nichols one for the water plant that was promised in november, special meeting,

1125
01:23:22,545 --> 01:23:26,515
and that hasn't been sent. So we need to have this information sent

1126
01:23:26,805 --> 01:23:30,565
to us. If the, uh, the contractors commit to it, the city staff

1127
01:23:30,845 --> 01:23:34,765
needs to follow and get that to us. Thank you. I'd like to go ahead

1128
01:23:34,885 --> 01:23:38,525
and answer mayor proton's question for the 6.1. You're getting parking

1129
01:23:39,915 --> 01:23:43,865
ball fields's, utilities and detention, no restroom. You

1130
01:23:44,085 --> 01:23:48,005
get pedestrian level lighting. No sports field lighting. I also wanna

1131
01:23:48,205 --> 01:23:52,175
mention, I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, the 2019 parks

1132
01:23:52,525 --> 01:23:56,405
plan, the 7 million was for the entire, that's phase two and phase three.

1133
01:23:56,735 --> 01:24:00,685
phase one. So, um, I can just, just

1134
01:24:00,885 --> 01:24:04,845
as a clarification. Yes, sir. 'cause I think we're getting to that point on the council here. Is the parking,

1135
01:24:05,385 --> 01:24:09,155
um, gravel. Asphalt or concrete? Concrete. Okay.

1136
01:24:09,445 --> 01:24:13,445
thank you. And, uh, I think the question about parking spaces, we are tasked

1137
01:24:13,805 --> 01:24:17,565
with 40 spaces per field. Uh, so we're looking in the range of 160

1138
01:24:18,145 --> 01:24:22,125
spaces. Um, and to serve the, to serve the

1139
01:24:22,245 --> 01:24:26,165
ball field, that's to serve the ball phase phase two, not including phase three. Yeah, phase three we'll

1140
01:24:26,405 --> 01:24:26,725
have separate parking.

1141
01:24:30,485 --> 01:24:34,465
I do think that we're all somewhat in favor of having a bond for us to go

1142
01:24:34,585 --> 01:24:38,365
out to get something. Yeah, I think the question right now is

1143
01:24:39,245 --> 01:24:43,045
how much and what is, is wind and there is

1144
01:24:43,505 --> 01:24:46,215
a definite appetite to see additional details

1145
01:24:47,645 --> 01:24:51,405
for the primrose park. Um, cost e ex

1146
01:24:51,875 --> 01:24:55,525
escalation. Um, and, and we haven't even gotten to

1147
01:24:55,925 --> 01:24:59,065
the other projects, um, contained within.

1148
01:25:00,285 --> 01:25:04,195
um, I do think I, I will agree with mr. Avi's

1149
01:25:04,545 --> 01:25:08,545
assessment that acquiring parkland now is the time to do it.

1150
01:25:09,285 --> 01:25:13,055
um, because price is only gonna escalate and there's gonna be fewer properties. However,

1151
01:25:13,805 --> 01:25:17,675
at the same time, my concern is two and a half million dollars isn't,

1152
01:25:18,205 --> 01:25:22,185
it may not be enough, um, to acquire the kind of park land that we really

1153
01:25:22,415 --> 01:25:26,385
need to acquire. And so that becomes part of the equation. If you're only

1154
01:25:26,545 --> 01:25:30,395
able to acquire four or five acres, um, and we have pocket parks

1155
01:25:31,015 --> 01:25:34,705
scattered throughout all of the master plan communities, those,

1156
01:25:35,045 --> 01:25:39,045
that's gonna be a harder sell to the public. Um, that's again, one

1157
01:25:39,265 --> 01:25:43,085
of the reasons why I think it's better to do a parks and rec general bond as

1158
01:25:43,305 --> 01:25:47,245
opposed to specific projects. So it gives more flexibility as long as

1159
01:25:47,875 --> 01:25:51,825
again, it stays within a parks and rec use and doesn't

1160
01:25:52,185 --> 01:25:56,105
violate certain things. Yes. Like sporting events and things like that, that would be a violation. Yes.

1161
01:25:56,265 --> 01:25:59,365
so I think that's an a question for the attorneys. Um,

1162
01:26:00,705 --> 01:26:04,685
I know this, I know if we bond for primrose park sports fields,

1163
01:26:05,155 --> 01:26:08,985
I've gotta build sports fields, right? What I don't know is

1164
01:26:09,555 --> 01:26:12,785
what is the state appetite for a bond that is

1165
01:26:14,025 --> 01:26:18,005
in general in nature without specific named projects. I know

1166
01:26:18,125 --> 01:26:22,045
the school has a little bit of flexibility when it comes to new builds,

1167
01:26:22,505 --> 01:26:26,145
but they still have to build new builds, right? County county just did it. Um,

1168
01:26:26,705 --> 01:26:30,675
so, but the county park bond actually spelled out what

1169
01:26:30,985 --> 01:26:34,845
it could, what it could, but like, like it can't say where it's gonna

1170
01:26:35,005 --> 01:26:39,005
be because they haven't acquired the land yet. 'cause they need the money for when it comes to acquisition of

1171
01:26:39,165 --> 01:26:42,925
land, correct? Yeah. Well, I generally defer to bond counsel

1172
01:26:43,265 --> 01:26:47,085
for the nuances of the, the bond questions, but, uh, but I do know that there is some degree

1173
01:26:47,365 --> 01:26:50,995
of specificity that's required. Um, and the authorization

1174
01:26:51,845 --> 01:26:55,805
that I'm aware of from the state law is that it can be parks and recreation facilities, so long as

1175
01:26:55,885 --> 01:26:59,765
it's generally accessible to the public at large and in the city's parks

1176
01:27:00,045 --> 01:27:03,805
plan. So as long as there is acquisition of some acreage in the parks plan,

1177
01:27:04,085 --> 01:27:08,085
I think that meets the statutory minimum. Um, and then I would, um, I would expect

1178
01:27:08,365 --> 01:27:12,105
that bond council would let us know if we need to get more specific than that. So,

1179
01:27:12,705 --> 01:27:16,525
but what I'm hearing is, and I think mr correct me if

1180
01:27:16,725 --> 01:27:20,685
I'm wrong, your point would be, um, figure out

1181
01:27:21,125 --> 01:27:25,065
whatever the dollar value is up to 5 cents and we go out to bond for

1182
01:27:25,285 --> 01:27:29,245
that without naming specific projects. What I'm hearing you say is there would

1183
01:27:29,405 --> 01:27:33,155
have to be at least some limited amount of detail as to what those projects were

1184
01:27:33,585 --> 01:27:37,465
in order to meet the statutory requirements. That is my understanding, yes. And the, the

1185
01:27:37,685 --> 01:27:41,645
county did just that, right? There's, there's enough detail on this list here,

1186
01:27:41,905 --> 01:27:45,585
and it wasn't 115 million, it was $153 million. And

1187
01:27:46,275 --> 01:27:49,825
it's very, it's, it's detailed enough to where I know as a voter what I'm voting on.

1188
01:27:50,665 --> 01:27:54,655
um, so I, yeah, but I don't, I don't actually think they have

1189
01:27:54,895 --> 01:27:58,215
to be held completely to all of that. It's detail, but it's not.

1190
01:27:59,355 --> 01:28:03,295
so again, I, I just think, and we talked about this, we said we were gonna need to

1191
01:28:03,375 --> 01:28:07,335
talk to bond counsel, but I just, I wouldn't detail it for every, and I mean,

1192
01:28:07,595 --> 01:28:11,575
and we did have a call with bond counsel, correct, aaron, to get to some of these

1193
01:28:11,695 --> 01:28:15,655
numbers and what we're looking at yes. With our financial

1194
01:28:16,055 --> 01:28:19,915
advisors. Okay. Mm-hmm, . Okay, so we have x amount of dollars. We

1195
01:28:20,135 --> 01:28:23,555
know what we can get for those x amount of dollars we've agreed to design,

1196
01:28:24,145 --> 01:28:27,895
spend money for phase three, right? So we've got phase two, phase three, we've got

1197
01:28:28,285 --> 01:28:32,185
another whatever, 5.4 million. I can't really do the math based

1198
01:28:32,535 --> 01:28:36,315
on these conversations to move forward with getting through phase two,

1199
01:28:36,545 --> 01:28:40,535
which we talked about, gives us some of the things that we want. We, maybe we don't get to

1200
01:28:40,655 --> 01:28:44,005
play games at night. Has staff engaged

1201
01:28:45,985 --> 01:28:49,915
with the economic development director and discussed

1202
01:28:51,705 --> 01:28:54,655
going to the edc for funding?

1203
01:29:00,415 --> 01:29:04,265
and if not, I mean, why not? Uh,

1204
01:29:04,855 --> 01:29:08,805
logan? Uh, the answer is yes, uh, but I think

1205
01:29:08,955 --> 01:29:12,365
what has to be demonstrated is how does it support economic development?

1206
01:29:13,745 --> 01:29:17,645
uh, and that has to be made clear. I think some of the projects like, uh, francis

1207
01:29:17,895 --> 01:29:21,645
smart park, it's in downtown, it's right next to hare street that probably does,

1208
01:29:23,085 --> 01:29:27,055
uh, parkland acquisition. But clearly we see,

1209
01:29:27,355 --> 01:29:31,215
you know, the b they have the ability and a, some of those projects have the ability

1210
01:29:31,515 --> 01:29:35,515
to do things which are better, the lifestyles of the people who, the

1211
01:29:36,015 --> 01:29:39,455
citizens who live here. So I mean, that's, that's a, that's a avenue

1212
01:29:40,235 --> 01:29:43,895
for, for funding, right. Uh, which shouldn't be ignored because

1213
01:29:44,405 --> 01:29:48,075
there's self stacked dollars sitting there and not being used. So, um,

1214
01:29:48,875 --> 01:29:52,775
as well as, as well as tournaments and anything that is also going to the park

1215
01:29:52,995 --> 01:29:56,855
on weekends or use, that would actually bring more dollars from an economic

1216
01:29:57,015 --> 01:30:00,755
development. Yeah. But if I've, if I've heard the edcs correctly, it's proved

1217
01:30:01,175 --> 01:30:04,965
to me that it has an economic impact with data. Yeah.

1218
01:30:05,435 --> 01:30:08,665
so with the ball fields, should daily

1219
01:30:09,685 --> 01:30:13,635
also get done, right? There's a a should there then? Yes, it

1220
01:30:13,855 --> 01:30:17,045
has a great economic impact. Um, because

1221
01:30:17,915 --> 01:30:21,775
we could host tournaments, we could do some of those kinds of things, but relative to, and opposed

1222
01:30:21,975 --> 01:30:25,695
to other potential projects that they're getting asked to, to support

1223
01:30:26,175 --> 01:30:30,165
and participate in as well. Correct. We do have a meeting

1224
01:30:30,325 --> 01:30:34,005
with one of the edc boards. Um, I believe it's in two weeks

1225
01:30:34,625 --> 01:30:38,505
if my memory and the calendar in my brain works outright. Um, so

1226
01:30:38,725 --> 01:30:42,575
we do meet with one of the edc boards, um, to go

1227
01:30:42,905 --> 01:30:45,915
discuss any potential projects that they may be interested in funding.

1228
01:30:47,755 --> 01:30:51,405
well, I think as a member of the edc board, it's gonna be better

1229
01:30:51,985 --> 01:30:55,915
if you as staff, right, looking at the master plan

1230
01:30:56,265 --> 01:30:59,965
for the city and the direction you're getting from council to go to the edc.

1231
01:31:00,805 --> 01:31:04,625
'cause if you look at, you know, there's what we want to do with the city and the plan and

1232
01:31:04,845 --> 01:31:08,265
all these sorts of things that need to be done. There is, uh,

1233
01:31:08,915 --> 01:31:12,725
funding and so forth that you have there. Then there's the edc that can

1234
01:31:12,925 --> 01:31:16,925
have projects, but the edcs aren't necessarily just going

1235
01:31:17,125 --> 01:31:21,005
to come up with projects, right. Unless they're, they're, they're triggered

1236
01:31:21,505 --> 01:31:25,265
by something. So I don't want to have that big discussion. I just ask

1237
01:31:25,565 --> 01:31:28,405
a question, right. So there, uh, there are certainly,

1238
01:31:29,925 --> 01:31:33,915
there's certainly things that the edc can do to help. And,

1239
01:31:34,155 --> 01:31:38,035
and yes, sir. And I will tell you that historically we have done that. And

1240
01:31:38,395 --> 01:31:42,335
so we actually do have the discussions with the edc in-house staff

1241
01:31:42,655 --> 01:31:46,515
first before we take projects to the edc board to discuss. And

1242
01:31:46,735 --> 01:31:50,595
we have done that in the past. And the e eds awards have elected to

1243
01:31:50,815 --> 01:31:54,485
support parks in some respects. In the past, the most

1244
01:31:55,135 --> 01:31:58,965
previous, um, project list that we took to them was without a parks

1245
01:31:59,245 --> 01:32:02,085
component, because that was the discussion that was held internally

1246
01:32:03,385 --> 01:32:06,865
and it was presented towards, uh, to focus on the

1247
01:32:07,395 --> 01:32:11,165
livable center study and what we could get from that. And that's how the harris street

1248
01:32:11,445 --> 01:32:14,965
project was chosen. So, but it, like, uh, tiffany

1249
01:32:15,645 --> 01:32:19,175
said in a couple of weeks we do have another meeting with the edc staff

1250
01:32:20,145 --> 01:32:24,015
along with one of the board members to discuss those potential projects going

1251
01:32:24,255 --> 01:32:24,775
forward as well.

1252
01:32:30,205 --> 01:32:34,175
alright. Yeah. So coming back to the question about

1253
01:32:34,515 --> 01:32:38,355
the county's involvement in this, have we explored that avenue at all, or?

1254
01:32:38,795 --> 01:32:42,415
yes. So I would like to note that primrose park, part of that land was donated

1255
01:32:42,955 --> 01:32:46,855
to the city to build ball fields. So I would have to defer to

1256
01:32:47,025 --> 01:32:51,015
byron legally if that is something that even could be, um, because that

1257
01:32:51,295 --> 01:32:54,975
land was donated. And I did talk to the commissioner briefly as well,

1258
01:32:55,635 --> 01:32:58,995
um, as he pursued projects.

1259
01:32:59,975 --> 01:33:03,495
um, for the commissioner, the priority in our community was,

1260
01:33:04,055 --> 01:33:07,875
was roads and mobility. Um, you know,

1261
01:33:08,295 --> 01:33:12,255
uh, a little insight as to how

1262
01:33:12,815 --> 01:33:15,835
the commissioner's, commissioner's work

1263
01:33:17,215 --> 01:33:19,655
is they try to get to,

1264
01:33:21,415 --> 01:33:25,315
not exact dollars per precinct, but they try to

1265
01:33:25,435 --> 01:33:29,245
get close. And so in areas where there

1266
01:33:29,595 --> 01:33:33,595
wasn't as many mobility projects, you'll actually see more parks projects.

1267
01:33:34,335 --> 01:33:38,065
and even some of those projects weren't cities. Um, they were muds.

1268
01:33:38,895 --> 01:33:42,875
um, there's a, there's a number of projects within that. We can't get into the merits and

1269
01:33:42,995 --> 01:33:46,945
the details of all of that. If you want to have a discussion about commissioners court that

1270
01:33:47,235 --> 01:33:51,035
works, we can talk about it another time. I'd love to. Well, I, I don't, but I,

1271
01:33:51,355 --> 01:33:55,355
I think it's worthy. I mean, I'm sitting here, freedom park, freedom park trails, harlan

1272
01:33:55,755 --> 01:33:59,715
road, park daily, park precinct, one dog park, jones creek. Some of

1273
01:33:59,835 --> 01:34:03,735
this is even maintenance to reduce sidewalks and that kind of thing. Yeah. So,

1274
01:34:03,995 --> 01:34:07,465
I mean, the list goes on and on, and I don't believe shore got near

1275
01:34:08,185 --> 01:34:11,915
what all the other cities around got. So if we have a need, we need to start working

1276
01:34:12,195 --> 01:34:15,675
with the county also because we're all paying tax dollars to the county

1277
01:34:16,255 --> 01:34:20,115
and it's going for, you know, these things. Yeah, I think,

1278
01:34:20,315 --> 01:34:24,075
I think it's, uh, I think it's a valid point, but I also think it's on our

1279
01:34:24,515 --> 01:34:28,195
citizens as well to reach out to their county commissioners and then stress the importance

1280
01:34:28,635 --> 01:34:32,115
of it, because it's a difference being a city in the county versus

1281
01:34:32,655 --> 01:34:36,535
the actual citizens that are paying the tax to those counties. So, yeah. And a and

1282
01:34:36,795 --> 01:34:40,325
a lot of those projects are within the unincorporated parts,

1283
01:34:41,025 --> 01:34:44,885
even though they say sugar land, it's a sugar land address, it's unincorporated. There

1284
01:34:45,255 --> 01:34:48,655
are some city projects, there are some mud projects. Um,

1285
01:34:49,745 --> 01:34:53,375
most of the city projects are, are smaller cities. Um,

1286
01:34:53,895 --> 01:34:57,725
but they're, nonetheless they're there. So that, that being said, what

1287
01:34:58,045 --> 01:35:01,875
I hear from council is a consensus that we want to entertain the idea

1288
01:35:02,505 --> 01:35:06,155
of a park spot. Um, we need some additional information,

1289
01:35:06,715 --> 01:35:10,035
especially as it relates to primrose before a decision can be made.

1290
01:35:10,855 --> 01:35:14,715
um, I think there's probably value in all of

1291
01:35:15,075 --> 01:35:18,615
the projects. Um, my question for counsel is,

1292
01:35:19,535 --> 01:35:23,475
do you have thoughts or opinions related to projects outside of primrose

1293
01:35:24,545 --> 01:35:26,555
that you want to discuss at this time?

1294
01:35:29,255 --> 01:35:33,025
yeah, I'm not sure even I'm ready yet to say that we are ready

1295
01:35:33,325 --> 01:35:37,305
for the barn quote yet. No, no, no. I'm not saying we're ready to the bond. I'm saying we have an

1296
01:35:37,745 --> 01:35:41,415
appetite to consider a bond package. There's no, yeah, there's

1297
01:35:41,905 --> 01:35:45,665
no, hey, we're voting for a bond package in may. That's not where we're

1298
01:35:45,945 --> 01:35:49,425
at. Okay. Um, but there's the appetite to continue the discussion, get more information,

1299
01:35:50,395 --> 01:35:54,205
drill down into the numbers. Um, my question is, is

1300
01:35:54,425 --> 01:35:58,205
there, we've heard a lot of conversation around primrose, um,

1301
01:35:58,835 --> 01:36:02,415
we've expressed that there's probably some interest on acquiring

1302
01:36:03,095 --> 01:36:07,025
some land if that's, you know, we gotta figure out what the value

1303
01:36:07,225 --> 01:36:11,145
of that is. Um, are there, do what

1304
01:36:11,945 --> 01:36:15,945
I could support most of the projects except for the large stern. Okay. So the

1305
01:36:16,125 --> 01:36:19,545
rec center, um, the only other thing I would say on the land

1306
01:36:20,685 --> 01:36:24,585
is if we do acquire more land, are we, I mean, are we even being steward good stewards of

1307
01:36:24,785 --> 01:36:28,665
the land we currently have? So we have, we already

1308
01:36:28,825 --> 01:36:32,565
have park land that we're currently unable to move forward on.

1309
01:36:32,885 --> 01:36:36,645
so it worries me that we would, I mean, I know that it's gonna be cheapest now

1310
01:36:38,225 --> 01:36:42,085
to go get it, but if we can't move forward on the projects that of the land we

1311
01:36:42,245 --> 01:36:45,865
already have, it's, it's, it's a hard, I think the, I think the other, I think the

1312
01:36:46,265 --> 01:36:50,045
one aspect of that is, and I mean we've seen cases like this, like

1313
01:36:50,325 --> 01:36:54,265
city of houston is going back and reclaiming areas and they're doing trails

1314
01:36:54,685 --> 01:36:58,685
and things like that. It's like they didn't have the foresight to go ahead

1315
01:36:59,025 --> 01:37:02,765
and plan for it. And I think that's what we want to do, or at least

1316
01:37:03,085 --> 01:37:06,765
I would propose that we would do is get ahead of it. So even if we're not

1317
01:37:07,245 --> 01:37:11,045
ready, and even though we are progressing on one park and then

1318
01:37:11,265 --> 01:37:15,205
others, um, if we don't do it, they could all be homes,

1319
01:37:15,925 --> 01:37:19,885
businesses, and all be done and then we have no place for it. Yeah. And I don't

1320
01:37:20,245 --> 01:37:24,085
disagree. I'm just saying that it, it's a harder sell when

1321
01:37:24,325 --> 01:37:27,925
we can't, when we already have parks that we can't put forward. Yeah. We can't develop.

1322
01:37:28,885 --> 01:37:32,465
I, I would, uh, at least my only comment on the irene stern, the

1323
01:37:33,115 --> 01:37:36,985
outside stuff, the trails and fields, I, I think that is

1324
01:37:37,205 --> 01:37:40,845
fine. I think it gives it a good space. The rec center thing, I,

1325
01:37:41,245 --> 01:37:45,115
I think that's, especially if you had to put that on a specific bond

1326
01:37:45,405 --> 01:37:49,365
item, I don't think that one would pass even if it was included. So I would stay away.

1327
01:37:50,815 --> 01:37:54,695
I, I guess for me, I wanna see an updated master plan. It sounds like you

1328
01:37:54,895 --> 01:37:58,545
already have numbers and you've thought through the details, but

1329
01:37:59,075 --> 01:38:02,995
what is it that we're buying? And that should be more detailed with

1330
01:38:03,285 --> 01:38:07,115
primrose park. So we know we have a lot more side

1331
01:38:07,405 --> 01:38:11,385
on primrose park. We know what our money's gonna pay for. But

1332
01:38:12,045 --> 01:38:15,975
I just feel like that, that we need that new vision along

1333
01:38:16,325 --> 01:38:20,145
with whatever numbers we can, can put to it. Um,

1334
01:38:21,835 --> 01:38:25,655
I'm kind of with you. Why buy land if we, we, we already have the edcs have

1335
01:38:25,925 --> 01:38:29,775
land from the old city hall. I don't know where it's going, but we

1336
01:38:29,935 --> 01:38:33,605
have land, so buy, buy more land

1337
01:38:33,995 --> 01:38:37,235
and it, it won't have lights. We have ball fields. But

1338
01:38:38,015 --> 01:38:41,405
I wanna see an update in matt parks and rec master plan

1339
01:38:42,155 --> 01:38:45,175
and put whatever you think in it and let us, let us look at that.

1340
01:38:47,045 --> 01:38:50,975
yeah, I concur with the, uh, updated master, um, master plan for parks and

1341
01:38:51,175 --> 01:38:54,335
recs. Um, I do think we should still be looking for, at least looking

1342
01:38:55,235 --> 01:38:58,915
for land to acquire that may be fit into our, um, master

1343
01:38:59,405 --> 01:39:03,095
plan for the city as it all. Um, I am supportive

1344
01:39:04,035 --> 01:39:07,775
of smart park because it is downtown. It does provide some

1345
01:39:08,375 --> 01:39:12,135
economic development. It also, um, I like the idea of the veterans

1346
01:39:12,455 --> 01:39:16,455
memorial as well with the scouts. And it's a smaller gathering space, but it's also

1347
01:39:16,695 --> 01:39:20,385
a remembrance area that will be more of the heart of downtown. 'cause we don't

1348
01:39:20,765 --> 01:39:24,335
have that heart right now in downtown with city hall not being there.

1349
01:39:25,315 --> 01:39:29,235
um, but yeah, I would definitely not be for

1350
01:39:29,595 --> 01:39:33,575
rec center. I think we need to reach out to ymca lifetime if you want

1351
01:39:33,775 --> 01:39:37,375
that, bring it to the city. But otherwise, I agree with what everybody has said about

1352
01:39:37,935 --> 01:39:41,565
primrose. We need line items. Yeah. So, uh, clarifying erin

1353
01:39:41,955 --> 01:39:45,755
has something to say. I think, do you have something we just wanted to make sure we got through our

1354
01:39:45,975 --> 01:39:49,935
last slide to no dates. If we were to have a may 4th election, you have to,

1355
01:39:50,055 --> 01:39:53,825
the council has to call for the election by the 16th of february, march 5th

1356
01:39:54,475 --> 01:39:57,995
is the last day to give notice of election to the county clerk with the election being may 4th.

1357
01:39:58,725 --> 01:40:02,615
okay. With that, with that being said, um, I think

1358
01:40:02,825 --> 01:40:06,695
staff you kind of heard, um, the feedback. I do want

1359
01:40:06,895 --> 01:40:10,865
to clarify something. Um, are

1360
01:40:11,085 --> 01:40:14,985
we asking for an update to the master plan? Are we a asking

1361
01:40:15,505 --> 01:40:19,495
for an update to the numbers? Because the master plan itself is conceptual

1362
01:40:20,505 --> 01:40:24,465
in nature. What I think what I'm hearing is we actually want an

1363
01:40:24,905 --> 01:40:28,545
update to the numbers that are related to,

1364
01:40:29,345 --> 01:40:32,245
um, the projects within the master plan and the cip

1365
01:40:33,405 --> 01:40:36,165
specifically for these parks projects.

1366
01:40:37,425 --> 01:40:41,245
um, so the drill down, um, for lack of better

1367
01:40:41,445 --> 01:40:45,105
terms on numbers and expenses, um,

1368
01:40:45,475 --> 01:40:49,365
whether they're actual as phase two should be

1369
01:40:49,525 --> 01:40:52,685
getting very close to true estimates

1370
01:40:53,585 --> 01:40:57,085
or projected and even a, that differentiation of what's projected

1371
01:40:57,665 --> 01:41:01,545
versus actual. I think there, there a little bit more there, especially when we're adding in

1372
01:41:01,765 --> 01:41:05,685
things that weren't there. Like oh, I agree. I I agree. But what I'm

1373
01:41:05,885 --> 01:41:09,675
saying is I don't think there's anything that's discussed that's not part

1374
01:41:09,965 --> 01:41:13,845
of the conceptual plan, but they may not have numbers to them. Right. And so what

1375
01:41:14,045 --> 01:41:17,125
we're saying is we need to drill down on the numbers

1376
01:41:18,505 --> 01:41:22,195
for these projects that are already contained within the master plan.

1377
01:41:22,925 --> 01:41:26,735
I would agree with that. In addition, I have one thing to say is, uh, let's

1378
01:41:27,085 --> 01:41:31,045
look at the original scope. Let's look at what we can do with

1379
01:41:31,245 --> 01:41:35,125
the existing points that we have, what it would take, and then look at the additional

1380
01:41:35,525 --> 01:41:39,405
options that we want to add to that. Yeah, so the, the,

1381
01:41:39,645 --> 01:41:43,145
the original scope was the four ball fields without lights, without sprinklers, without

1382
01:41:43,805 --> 01:41:47,645
any utilities. Um, so that was the original scope. And

1383
01:41:47,865 --> 01:41:51,825
even the original scope didn't have, um, the ball courts. Those

1384
01:41:52,065 --> 01:41:55,645
were added to the 2020. I think master

1385
01:41:56,175 --> 01:42:00,045
plan is when those got, now we conceptually talked about, well it would nice be

1386
01:42:00,265 --> 01:42:04,025
nice to have some ballparks. It'd be nice to have some parking. Um, we did

1387
01:42:04,365 --> 01:42:08,285
add the, the little bit of parking and in phase one for,

1388
01:42:09,005 --> 01:42:12,865
uh, the walking trail that exists there. But it's, it's right, we did, but

1389
01:42:13,025 --> 01:42:17,025
we had some pictures even from a conceptual perspective. And I don't know if

1390
01:42:17,145 --> 01:42:21,065
those pictures have changed. I know we discussed this colleagues shaking her head.

1391
01:42:21,285 --> 01:42:25,285
we discussed parking because we like mm-hmm, , where's everybody gonna park? And if we're gonna use

1392
01:42:25,785 --> 01:42:29,745
these for events. So I don't think it would take much to update the co conceptional

1393
01:42:30,645 --> 01:42:34,585
com. You're, you're raising your eyebrows out there. I

1394
01:42:34,705 --> 01:42:38,565
can speak to that if you want. Yeah, if you, if you could. But all right. So, uh, can

1395
01:42:38,785 --> 01:42:42,345
you flip back to, you wanna talk about the actual phase two, phase three?

1396
01:42:43,015 --> 01:42:46,885
well, well, so whenever we had the master plan in

1397
01:42:47,105 --> 01:42:50,985
2020, we had pictures yes. Of primrose park

1398
01:42:51,485 --> 01:42:55,305
and it had parking and ball field. It's very similar to what's actually shown

1399
01:42:55,585 --> 01:42:59,465
there. You're right. And then we had details that yes. Kind of summed it up. Correct. And

1400
01:42:59,685 --> 01:43:03,485
if there's been any changes to the pictures, let's change that and,

1401
01:43:04,005 --> 01:43:07,665
and, and they're already changed. And then add the detail. Yes, there have been changes.

1402
01:43:08,325 --> 01:43:12,165
uh, I think the changes are better. Uh, in the original concept, we

1403
01:43:12,385 --> 01:43:16,385
had just one continuous long entry road, had no parking, loading that

1404
01:43:16,545 --> 01:43:20,305
road. So that's just a cost of a road. So we came back in and we added,

1405
01:43:21,045 --> 01:43:24,245
we curved the road a little bit to calm down the, uh, drive speeds.

1406
01:43:25,085 --> 01:43:28,575
uh, halfway through the project, we were asked to make the ball fields 200 feet.

1407
01:43:29,245 --> 01:43:32,225
all four of 'em were 200 feet in the concept. Two of the fields are now 2 25

1408
01:43:33,325 --> 01:43:37,265
for competition to meet little league. Uh, little league. Yeah. I think the mayor hit the nail on the

1409
01:43:37,345 --> 01:43:40,745
head that those are concepts, they're conceptual estimates.

1410
01:43:41,375 --> 01:43:45,185
they didn't take into a fat, uh, into account what we talked about with the, uh, electrical

1411
01:43:45,425 --> 01:43:49,185
infrastructure. And so yeah, we've, we've really kind of tried to

1412
01:43:49,625 --> 01:43:51,765
optimize the plan as much as we can to make it buildable.

1413
01:43:54,335 --> 01:43:58,065
the other was just a concept. I mean, it's, yeah, I appreciate that detail that

1414
01:43:58,355 --> 01:44:02,275
you just provided and now the difference between conceptual and you once you

1415
01:44:02,435 --> 01:44:06,195
get into the details of plan to the paper. Yeah. Um, I, I

1416
01:44:06,775 --> 01:44:10,715
go back to the same thing I said earlier. You know, as much as possible, I

1417
01:44:10,835 --> 01:44:14,355
don't think we, I'm in favor of adding more taxes to the citizens.

1418
01:44:15,295 --> 01:44:19,275
we, if we can stay in our budget and can accomplish what we initially started,

1419
01:44:20,795 --> 01:44:24,555
whatever difference we might want that once you give us the details,

1420
01:44:24,895 --> 01:44:28,675
we can look at what can and what cannot be added and then,

1421
01:44:28,935 --> 01:44:32,755
uh, we can decide if it's worth going for it or not. Yes, sir. I appreciate that detail.

1422
01:44:33,055 --> 01:44:37,015
yes, sir. Yeah, and, and you know, as someone that does provide some of those concepts and

1423
01:44:37,235 --> 01:44:41,195
some of those magnitude of costs, we don't get a survey. We're doing everything based on an

1424
01:44:41,355 --> 01:44:45,215
aerial, a site visit. And that's very much what we kind of backed into. So

1425
01:44:46,005 --> 01:44:49,785
thank you time. Just one other point that I think we probably need

1426
01:44:50,075 --> 01:44:53,155
to give some direction on here, mayor, is not only

1427
01:44:54,205 --> 01:44:57,795
where we're at and how we feel about it, but also about

1428
01:44:58,785 --> 01:45:02,635
whether or not we think that this is realistic. 'cause what I don't want to happen is I don't

1429
01:45:02,835 --> 01:45:06,755
want staff going back thinking, hey, we've got a, we've got a pump

1430
01:45:07,015 --> 01:45:10,925
for the fourth and the 16th and we've gotta do all this work and we've gotta get all this out. And we're like, no, we're

1431
01:45:11,275 --> 01:45:14,935
not, we're not ready for that. I don't want them working all of that to do that. So

1432
01:45:15,315 --> 01:45:19,165
I think we need a consensus of do we want to have this in

1433
01:45:19,385 --> 01:45:23,325
may or do we want to push it further out? 'cause we're not ready because I, I don't want

1434
01:45:23,405 --> 01:45:27,325
them to be overburdened. Or if I, if I may, one thing you could do

1435
01:45:27,505 --> 01:45:31,085
is if you wanna pump the brakes on primrose because there's, it's a much larger

1436
01:45:31,715 --> 01:45:35,605
park, which the amphitheater not really quite settled yet. You could do the other

1437
01:45:35,805 --> 01:45:39,565
projects or some combination of other projects instead. I think the point, it's not about

1438
01:45:40,105 --> 01:45:43,885
the specific project 'cause we actually, again, depending on what we would define

1439
01:45:44,205 --> 01:45:47,355
in the bond and what we have to define, that makes it complex.

1440
01:45:48,645 --> 01:45:52,355
I think the more concerning piece is talking about it with

1441
01:45:52,745 --> 01:45:56,645
the citizens of the city and about where we're at and understanding what's getting forests and

1442
01:45:56,765 --> 01:46:00,705
all the questions that we've been brought up that they're gonna peg us with, that we need to get answered to

1443
01:46:01,425 --> 01:46:05,225
and to kind of work through that to make sure we're being good stewards of

1444
01:46:05,445 --> 01:46:09,145
their tax dollars. That's the concern. Yeah. So, and I think there, the,

1445
01:46:09,545 --> 01:46:12,985
here's the biggest issue, uh, the way I see it. Um,

1446
01:46:14,225 --> 01:46:18,005
not only did parks and rec note that primrose is the

1447
01:46:18,405 --> 01:46:21,955
priority, we've been telling people that

1448
01:46:22,605 --> 01:46:26,365
primrose is gonna be done. And in fact, at one time

1449
01:46:26,895 --> 01:46:30,005
there was a projection that we were gonna be playing ball this spring.

1450
01:46:31,305 --> 01:46:35,145
so the, the problem is, and, and this is, I'll just say my

1451
01:46:35,845 --> 01:46:39,685
complete frustration on primrose is there's been zero accountability

1452
01:46:40,425 --> 01:46:43,665
on primrose. And somebody needs to step up

1453
01:46:44,505 --> 01:46:47,605
and own the fact that we have delayed this design,

1454
01:46:48,675 --> 01:46:52,525
that we have delayed this project, and that

1455
01:46:52,685 --> 01:46:55,665
we're even having this conversation today because it's two years old.

1456
01:46:56,785 --> 01:46:59,795
um, that's the problem with

1457
01:47:01,705 --> 01:47:05,585
primrose itself. We can't do anything

1458
01:47:06,105 --> 01:47:10,105
anywhere else until we get primrose done because we've been

1459
01:47:10,265 --> 01:47:14,205
promising primrose since 2017 when the land was

1460
01:47:14,425 --> 01:47:17,815
purchased. I understand. So that's, that's the problem

1461
01:47:18,795 --> 01:47:22,615
is, and that's why so much of the discussion is centered on primrose.

1462
01:47:23,875 --> 01:47:27,865
because primrose has continued to

1463
01:47:28,085 --> 01:47:31,995
be delayed. The cost has continued to escalate. And so

1464
01:47:32,195 --> 01:47:35,795
we found ourselves in a position where the only way to really do primrose

1465
01:47:36,575 --> 01:47:40,265
the way that the public, the residents of fulcher want

1466
01:47:40,635 --> 01:47:43,835
primrose, is to figure out how do we get this on a bond package

1467
01:47:44,975 --> 01:47:48,835
now. So my recommendation, take it for what it's worth

1468
01:47:49,055 --> 01:47:51,935
as a lame duck mayor, um, is

1469
01:47:53,335 --> 01:47:57,215
you gotta move on primrose. We've gotta do everything we

1470
01:47:57,455 --> 01:48:01,335
can to start moving dirt to use the $6 million that have been allocated. If

1471
01:48:01,555 --> 01:48:05,435
we're not gonna go to bond in the end of february. I mean, if

1472
01:48:05,595 --> 01:48:09,535
we're not gonna vote for a bond by february 16th, we've got to get

1473
01:48:09,815 --> 01:48:13,795
moving with that phase two. And that means if we come back with a bond package

1474
01:48:14,135 --> 01:48:18,075
in november, the november package includes the escalation of

1475
01:48:18,305 --> 01:48:22,105
cost and the other projects for that

1476
01:48:22,515 --> 01:48:26,515
to happen. But if we think that we're close to being wrapping up design and

1477
01:48:26,715 --> 01:48:30,715
being able to go to construction and start moving dirt in may, let's move dirt

1478
01:48:30,955 --> 01:48:34,555
in may. If counsel gets satisfied

1479
01:48:35,425 --> 01:48:39,395
with the numbers and is comfortable issuing a

1480
01:48:39,545 --> 01:48:42,395
bond, um, by may, great,

1481
01:48:43,815 --> 01:48:47,635
but then it's gotta go to the public. And, and in my opinion,

1482
01:48:48,065 --> 01:48:52,035
when it goes to the public, primrose is an e primrose is the easiest

1483
01:48:53,935 --> 01:48:56,575
of them to sell because it is the one that is

1484
01:48:58,285 --> 01:49:01,795
been so long in the waiting and there's the gr greatest desire for,

1485
01:49:02,305 --> 01:49:05,865
right? There will be pockets of the community

1486
01:49:06,365 --> 01:49:10,345
who want the other projects. And so we gotta figure out, okay, what

1487
01:49:10,685 --> 01:49:14,515
is really taken to the public within that 5 cent range

1488
01:49:15,685 --> 01:49:19,545
and is there an appetite for additional projects? So that's my opinion

1489
01:49:20,205 --> 01:49:24,065
as it is in the struggle with saying, well, let's go ahead and throw the other projects

1490
01:49:24,585 --> 01:49:28,225
on the bond that doesn't work because we can't keep kicking

1491
01:49:28,705 --> 01:49:32,605
primrose down the field. We gotta move on primrose and, and

1492
01:49:32,825 --> 01:49:36,345
that, so phase two designs complete

1493
01:49:37,165 --> 01:49:40,935
almost, almost, almost. So 90%, 95%.

1494
01:49:43,345 --> 01:49:47,205
so we cannot postpone construction

1495
01:49:47,585 --> 01:49:51,345
on phase two while we spend a year on phase three design. Either.

1496
01:49:52,845 --> 01:49:56,605
I mean, we cannot just say, okay, now we're gonna go design phase three for a year

1497
01:49:57,145 --> 01:50:00,235
and not do anything that, that's not gonna work either.

1498
01:50:01,485 --> 01:50:05,385
right. And if I may, the mayor

1499
01:50:05,585 --> 01:50:09,505
put it much more eloquently than I ever could. However, what I was going to say is, parks and

1500
01:50:09,695 --> 01:50:13,665
recs number one priority is primrose and we owe it to the community.

1501
01:50:13,985 --> 01:50:17,745
those that donated land and, and us talking to the community about it for so long to deliver

1502
01:50:18,025 --> 01:50:21,885
on that, we just wanna ensure that it's done to meet expectations and done the right way. So

1503
01:50:22,415 --> 01:50:26,205
what you all need to support what that direction is, um,

1504
01:50:26,565 --> 01:50:30,465
is great. But I just wanna say as the, the mayor said, we on parks and rec would love

1505
01:50:30,625 --> 01:50:34,585
to see primrose accomplished and accomplished effectively, efficiently, and quickly

1506
01:50:35,125 --> 01:50:38,525
so that we can deliver community. So almost what I'm hearing is

1507
01:50:39,695 --> 01:50:43,245
that primrose now, instead of three phases is

1508
01:50:43,895 --> 01:50:47,665
four phases. There's the, let's get two done,

1509
01:50:48,405 --> 01:50:52,245
get the built the fields built, get the deal, and then be ready to

1510
01:50:52,465 --> 01:50:56,325
be able to install the electrical and the lights and the, you

1511
01:50:56,545 --> 01:51:00,395
know, and we may escalate cost, but, and that's, and again,

1512
01:51:00,885 --> 01:51:04,785
it still goes back to the concern 'cause we bundled them together and now we're basically

1513
01:51:05,145 --> 01:51:09,105
saying, in order for us to make progress, because we also don't have the full

1514
01:51:09,305 --> 01:51:13,265
funds for it, we actually need to go back and separate them apart. So now I'm kind

1515
01:51:13,425 --> 01:51:17,025
of like, well the, the additional 550,000 we just

1516
01:51:17,505 --> 01:51:21,385
approved, I'm kind of like, man, do we really wanna be doing that right now? We should be using

1517
01:51:21,685 --> 01:51:25,415
all those funds to do all the construction on phase two so that, so what

1518
01:51:26,205 --> 01:51:29,985
if they don't, can't play ball at night? At least they can play ball in a field

1519
01:51:30,325 --> 01:51:33,945
at some point soon to where people can start seeing progress. That's, that's the type of

1520
01:51:34,975 --> 01:51:38,705
area that I'm at in, in frustration. And also also the, one of the

1521
01:51:39,025 --> 01:51:42,945
reasons why is like, I don't believe we're ready for a bond and therefore I wouldn't be

1522
01:51:43,065 --> 01:51:46,425
pushing, focusing on a, a bond referendum for the fourth or the 16th.

1523
01:51:47,145 --> 01:51:51,025
I have a question for the developer there. The design engineers, yeah, mr

1524
01:51:51,185 --> 01:51:55,065
half. Uh, if we were to build wall fields and

1525
01:51:55,265 --> 01:51:57,545
everything right now at the $6 million

1526
01:51:59,305 --> 01:52:03,035
when we go through to run electric through there, are we gonna have to tear 'em all up again?

1527
01:52:03,855 --> 01:52:07,775
no, sir. The current design, uh, accounts for conduit for future sports

1528
01:52:08,195 --> 01:52:12,075
wheel lighting. Okay. Because the sports wheel lighting was a big ticket number. So that's

1529
01:52:12,315 --> 01:52:16,285
in the 6 million. Yes sir. The conduit. Okay. Thank

1530
01:52:17,255 --> 01:52:21,195
all right. Consensus to move forward. Uh, I, I

1531
01:52:21,325 --> 01:52:23,795
don't believe you can

1532
01:52:25,845 --> 01:52:29,665
at least get the primrose detail out to counsel, I think is what I'm hearing,

1533
01:52:30,285 --> 01:52:34,045
um, and continue to drill down on the numbers, uh, to update,

1534
01:52:34,925 --> 01:52:38,865
um, within the plan. So yeah, just don't burn the midnight oil at this

1535
01:52:38,985 --> 01:52:42,825
point. I don't think we're gonna hit the february deadline anyway. Yeah, I was gonna say, I don't think the pressure is on

1536
01:52:43,045 --> 01:52:46,365
to meet a february 4th deadline. So, or february,

1537
01:52:48,465 --> 01:52:52,335
uh, mr. Kbi did bring a good point up about the, uh, extra

1538
01:52:52,855 --> 01:52:56,625
phase three design dollars that we just allocated to, um,

1539
01:52:58,105 --> 01:53:01,965
in the earlier approval. Is that something that we need to relook? Is there

1540
01:53:02,165 --> 01:53:05,885
a possibility we can, uh, counsel may advise?

1541
01:53:07,845 --> 01:53:11,695
yeah. So, um, to take up something that our action has already been taken

1542
01:53:11,875 --> 01:53:15,455
on, uh, there would need to be a motion to reconsider, which would need to pass by a super majority

1543
01:53:16,155 --> 01:53:18,265
and then it could be discussed and acted on again.

1544
01:53:21,655 --> 01:53:25,655
'cause I do see a, a reasonable effort here that if we are not gonna

1545
01:53:25,895 --> 01:53:29,815
be able to, um, use them anytime soon, just having

1546
01:53:30,035 --> 01:53:33,935
the design ready instead we could use them for a better purpose

1547
01:53:34,315 --> 01:53:38,255
of, uh, phase two completion. I think

1548
01:53:38,555 --> 01:53:41,925
the counter potentially,

1549
01:53:42,795 --> 01:53:46,735
the, the counter argument would be that if we are trying to go

1550
01:53:46,915 --> 01:53:50,905
to bond in november, uh, with a nine month

1551
01:53:52,035 --> 01:53:55,195
or even 12 month design time, um,

1552
01:53:56,095 --> 01:53:59,895
a november bond issuance, if we're not able

1553
01:54:00,155 --> 01:54:03,295
to expend the $500,000 prior to that,

1554
01:54:04,395 --> 01:54:08,255
um, now you're talking about not being able to spend those funds for another

1555
01:54:09,645 --> 01:54:13,435
year. So you're getting involved and let's, let's also be clear, we

1556
01:54:13,655 --> 01:54:17,335
always get surprises at the end of design phase on what the intended

1557
01:54:17,895 --> 01:54:21,815
construction costs are. So we probably need to proceed forward through design. Yeah, I I

1558
01:54:22,215 --> 01:54:26,215
I think you're, I understand the point I, there there's

1559
01:54:26,575 --> 01:54:30,435
a risk. No, I don't mind. I just wanted to make sure that we're not missing an opportunity of

1560
01:54:30,655 --> 01:54:33,735
completing phase two because, uh, just the lighting is gonna be 900,556,000

1561
01:54:35,975 --> 01:54:37,985
right here. That might get us further along.

1562
01:54:41,235 --> 01:54:42,085
okay. .

1563
01:54:45,285 --> 01:54:49,145
all right. So, uh, with that being said, discussion is complete

1564
01:54:49,645 --> 01:54:53,495
on the general obligation bond. Um, counsel,

1565
01:54:54,465 --> 01:54:58,205
I thank you, tiffany. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you tiffany. Um,

1566
01:54:58,645 --> 01:55:02,545
mr. Igar, you could always bring that motion to reconsider item b should

1567
01:55:02,905 --> 01:55:06,745
you choose item d consideration possible action of approved resolution number 2024

1568
01:55:08,015 --> 01:55:11,905
dash six 10 exhibits a and b related to the nomination of candidate service director of

1569
01:55:12,065 --> 01:55:15,905
the board of directors for the north fort bend water authority director precinct number

1570
01:55:16,275 --> 01:55:20,205
seven. Um, as you may recall, ms. Hollingsworth has served as

1571
01:55:20,425 --> 01:55:23,895
our representative for a number of years now since leaving council.

1572
01:55:24,965 --> 01:55:28,695
um, there are requirements that you either had to have

1573
01:55:28,985 --> 01:55:32,005
been a mud director or served

1574
01:55:33,005 --> 01:55:36,745
on city council or as mayor of fulcher in order to be

1575
01:55:37,265 --> 01:55:41,265
eligible to serve on this board. I believe ms. Hollingsworth has expressed

1576
01:55:42,105 --> 01:55:45,665
interest to continue in that function. Um, but

1577
01:55:46,385 --> 01:55:50,205
we are five or six votes out of 28,

1578
01:55:50,925 --> 01:55:54,805
I believe, for that position or something similar. So chair? Yep. You, you,

1579
01:55:55,005 --> 01:55:58,745
you've summed it up very well, mayor. Thank you. Uh, the, the only thing that I would add

1580
01:55:59,145 --> 01:56:02,445
is that, uh, it is a recommendation for a nomination.

1581
01:56:03,585 --> 01:56:07,285
so that does have to go through the voting process within the precinct.

1582
01:56:07,705 --> 01:56:11,635
so, um, so the resolution that you have before, you will

1583
01:56:11,925 --> 01:56:15,925
name a, a candidate for nomination to the board of directors for the north fort

1584
01:56:16,205 --> 01:56:20,165
bend water authority. Uh, so your recommendation is to

1585
01:56:20,475 --> 01:56:24,165
approve that resolution, naming the candidate, and then also authorize

1586
01:56:24,745 --> 01:56:28,525
the mayor to execute and the city secretary to attest to the exhibit a,

1587
01:56:28,935 --> 01:56:32,485
which is the certification of the resolution, nominating the candidate.

1588
01:56:33,305 --> 01:56:36,685
and then item three would be to direct staff to complete exhibit

1589
01:56:37,405 --> 01:56:41,165
b, which is the 2023 poage report, which

1590
01:56:41,445 --> 01:56:45,405
is their a report for the annual pump for the year. That they will have to have

1591
01:56:45,625 --> 01:56:48,205
to determine what those numbers are for voting.

1592
01:56:50,535 --> 01:56:53,565
byron, do we need three motions on this or can be one summed up together?

1593
01:56:55,305 --> 01:56:58,965
uh, it can begin as one motion and it could be separated if need be after that.

1594
01:56:59,765 --> 01:57:02,785
excellent. Mayor, I move counsel, approve resolution 2024

1595
01:57:04,075 --> 01:57:07,605
dash six 10 nominating ms. Hollingsworth,

1596
01:57:08,525 --> 01:57:12,365
I didn't catch her first name. Dana. Dana hollingsworth, uh, for the board

1597
01:57:12,565 --> 01:57:16,545
of directors of the north for bend water authority as

1598
01:57:16,765 --> 01:57:20,665
well as authorize the mayor to execute and the city secretary to attest to

1599
01:57:20,885 --> 01:57:24,765
exhibit a certification and resolution nominating candidate for the board of directors

1600
01:57:24,985 --> 01:57:28,545
of north fort bend water authority and directing staff to

1601
01:57:29,005 --> 01:57:32,265
complete exhibit b 2023 poage report. Second.

1602
01:57:34,865 --> 01:57:38,535
okay, we have a motion and a second to approve resolution number

1603
01:57:39,415 --> 01:57:43,155
2024 dash six 10. Any further questions or comments?

1604
01:57:44,935 --> 01:57:48,905
all in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? There is none. The motion carries

1605
01:57:50,585 --> 01:57:54,555
item e consideration and possible action to approve to authorize the execution

1606
01:57:55,035 --> 01:57:57,875
of permit transfer application of an application for a-t-p-d-e-s

1607
01:57:59,685 --> 01:58:03,335
permit. Major amendment for the cross creek ranch wastewater treatment plant

1608
01:58:04,525 --> 01:58:08,485
wq 0 0 1 4 7 5 0 0 1. Okay. I

1609
01:58:08,605 --> 01:58:12,485
will briefly summarize to give a little bit of background, um, the cross

1610
01:58:12,805 --> 01:58:16,325
creek ranch wastewater treatment plant is currently at a 2.0 million

1611
01:58:17,645 --> 01:58:21,495
gallon a day capacity with a 0.5 that is currently being decom

1612
01:58:22,295 --> 01:58:26,245
being decommissioned. So the, um, there was a, a permanent

1613
01:58:26,405 --> 01:58:29,525
expansion for that, that was also, that was done through the municipal utility

1614
01:58:30,445 --> 01:58:34,285
district because they are actually the co-owner of the permit right at the moment.

1615
01:58:34,985 --> 01:58:38,975
so to make this, the expansion of the, of the cross creek plant, based

1616
01:58:39,325 --> 01:58:43,285
on our current cip approval to expand, uh, another

1617
01:58:44,185 --> 01:58:47,985
1 million gallon a day, that takes another amendment to the permit. But

1618
01:58:48,205 --> 01:58:52,005
this particular process also renews the permit. So the permit does expire

1619
01:58:52,405 --> 01:58:56,185
in february of this year. Um, excuse me. So

1620
01:58:56,425 --> 01:59:00,305
the, the actual application now has a couple of components to

1621
01:59:00,525 --> 01:59:03,835
it. So first component is to change the ownership

1622
01:59:04,825 --> 01:59:08,645
to a, to the city only and take the mud off. We already have that

1623
01:59:08,845 --> 01:59:12,805
signed document from the mud to do that. Uh, and then the second part

1624
01:59:13,085 --> 01:59:16,845
of that is to make the major amendment to the permit, which would actually renew the permit

1625
01:59:17,145 --> 01:59:20,965
as well. So this will take this, the plant after the decommissioning

1626
01:59:21,685 --> 01:59:25,465
to a 3.0 mgd plant. And so that's what the entire

1627
01:59:25,885 --> 01:59:29,825
packet is all about. But for tonight, uh, we are asking for,

1628
01:59:30,305 --> 01:59:34,005
uh, you all to authorize the mayor to execute those pages in the document

1629
01:59:34,675 --> 01:59:38,445
that are necessary to, uh, complete the application and submit it.

1630
01:59:39,065 --> 01:59:43,005
uh, the application I will just for full disclosure, the application in the

1631
01:59:43,165 --> 01:59:47,125
packet is not what is currently going to be submitted. 'cause there has been some

1632
01:59:47,365 --> 01:59:51,165
updates to the packet already. Uh, one of those is the exhibit that outlines

1633
01:59:51,645 --> 01:59:55,255
the service area. So we've made those final amendments

1634
01:59:55,925 --> 01:59:59,845
today, so it's ready to go and it's, and it is accurate. So, and the other

1635
02:00:00,005 --> 02:00:03,965
part of that was some main minor stuff, uh, related to addressing of

1636
02:00:04,165 --> 02:00:08,065
the city since we moved city hall and some things like that. But

1637
02:00:08,285 --> 02:00:11,925
otherwise, the technical components are accurate as shown in the, in the

1638
02:00:12,395 --> 02:00:16,285
application. Mayor, move counsel authorized the mayor to sign

1639
02:00:16,445 --> 02:00:20,325
the applications in the appropriate places to complete the permit transfer application in the

1640
02:00:20,605 --> 02:00:24,335
t-p-d-e-s major amendment application for the cross creek ranch wastewater

1641
02:00:25,005 --> 02:00:28,965
treatment plan. Second. Okay, we have a motion on ms. Can I second by ms.

1642
02:00:29,135 --> 02:00:32,765
kates, uh, to authorize the mayor to execute the permit

1643
02:00:33,365 --> 02:00:37,055
transfer application, uh, an application for tbds permit, major

1644
02:00:37,405 --> 02:00:40,435
amendment. Any further questions or comments?

1645
02:00:41,935 --> 02:00:45,505
all in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? There is none. The motion carries.

1646
02:00:46,265 --> 02:00:49,265
item f discussion regarding a true preservation ordinance.

1647
02:00:51,695 --> 02:00:55,655
so this has been put on, um, counsel for discussion, um, with myself and

1648
02:00:55,875 --> 02:00:59,795
council member poole, um, who second it. And at this time, I would like to

1649
02:00:59,915 --> 02:01:03,815
invite ms. Ramona ridge or mr. And mr. John mccann if

1650
02:01:04,035 --> 02:01:07,455
you would like to speak on this item, if that's permissible. Mayor, yes, please.

1651
02:01:09,065 --> 02:01:12,895
just quickly, I'd like to say we should have done this 10 years ago or

1652
02:01:13,115 --> 02:01:16,335
15 years ago. The destruction of our old,

1653
02:01:17,495 --> 02:01:21,235
um, trees that make re beautiful

1654
02:01:22,575 --> 02:01:26,495
and are, are being torn down constantly. And

1655
02:01:26,715 --> 02:01:30,715
it's so sad and it's, it's not a matter of small trees, it's a matter of

1656
02:01:31,055 --> 02:01:33,295
big, the, the

1657
02:01:35,345 --> 02:01:39,165
patriarch trees, for lack of a better word. I hear people move out

1658
02:01:39,365 --> 02:01:43,265
here all the time because of its beauty and it's being destroyed and

1659
02:01:43,485 --> 02:01:46,575
turned into strip centers. And I find that incredibly

1660
02:01:47,545 --> 02:01:51,385
sad and, um, irresponsible on our part of

1661
02:01:51,605 --> 02:01:55,395
saving the god-given beauty of full sure. And replacing

1662
02:01:56,005 --> 02:01:59,995
it with concrete and strip centers, which they will be there, but, you know, keep

1663
02:02:00,285 --> 02:02:04,205
the tree in front of the strip center, keep the tree in the parking lot. There's no reason

1664
02:02:05,265 --> 02:02:08,605
except breed on, on the part of a lot of developers

1665
02:02:09,305 --> 02:02:12,275
to rip them down. And it's part of what gives character

1666
02:02:13,345 --> 02:02:16,845
our character, uh, to ful. Sure. And the charm.

1667
02:02:19,535 --> 02:02:23,455
jd. I'm jd mccann.

1668
02:02:24,455 --> 02:02:28,075
um, I know 10 or fell 12, 15

1669
02:02:28,515 --> 02:02:32,315
years ago, we tried to pass a tree ordinance and it just

1670
02:02:32,655 --> 02:02:35,315
got totally outta hand. I mean,

1671
02:02:37,115 --> 02:02:40,495
downtown district got in it. They wanted to put

1672
02:02:41,415 --> 02:02:45,095
so many parking spots, so many trees. That's

1673
02:02:45,515 --> 02:02:48,715
not what we were trying to accomplish. We were trying to accomplish saving

1674
02:02:49,685 --> 02:02:53,535
these trees that have been here for 200 years.

1675
02:02:55,255 --> 02:02:58,995
uh, sarah came down and looked at what

1676
02:02:59,435 --> 02:03:03,055
happened at the fred bra property at the end of the change line. Uh,

1677
02:03:04,465 --> 02:03:07,905
that was complete destruction of every tree

1678
02:03:08,845 --> 02:03:12,595
where the houses were gonna be built. Some of these trees have to have been

1679
02:03:12,875 --> 02:03:15,575
150 years old. Um,

1680
02:03:18,345 --> 02:03:22,225
I've got some of the largest live oak trees on james lane because

1681
02:03:22,915 --> 02:03:26,115
I trim 'em. Y'all have a ballpark

1682
02:03:27,645 --> 02:03:30,135
that we planted trees on. In 1986,

1683
02:03:31,885 --> 02:03:35,545
they were in three gallon containers and they were about knee high, maybe

1684
02:03:35,905 --> 02:03:39,885
waist high. Today, those trees have never ever been

1685
02:03:40,175 --> 02:03:44,065
trimmed. And the more you trim 'em, the bigger they get and

1686
02:03:44,285 --> 02:03:48,265
the quicker they get. All those trees were planted

1687
02:03:48,615 --> 02:03:51,805
basically in the same year. Um,

1688
02:03:53,565 --> 02:03:56,785
and getting back to the trees that got torn down.

1689
02:03:57,675 --> 02:04:01,675
these were native pecan trees and they only grow along river

1690
02:04:02,295 --> 02:04:05,265
beds and creek beds. They don't draw on the prairie.

1691
02:04:07,465 --> 02:04:10,895
they grow down in the river bottoms where the clay is.

1692
02:04:12,255 --> 02:04:16,165
and I, I know a developer has

1693
02:04:16,385 --> 02:04:19,945
the right to go in and buy a piece of land

1694
02:04:20,565 --> 02:04:24,475
and clear it completely, but, but I don't think it was right.

1695
02:04:25,585 --> 02:04:29,145
doug kanaka did it over here at fhi run on francis smart's

1696
02:04:29,795 --> 02:04:33,485
property. Those were some of the trees that were grown along

1697
02:04:33,955 --> 02:04:36,635
bessie's creek to the south of her property.

1698
02:04:38,565 --> 02:04:42,385
anyway, um, another instance

1699
02:04:43,005 --> 02:04:45,085
is right there at

1700
02:04:47,015 --> 02:04:50,735
huggins road where three or two huge

1701
02:04:51,035 --> 02:04:54,905
water oaks were taken down so y'all could straighten out so the city could straighten

1702
02:04:55,105 --> 02:04:58,715
out the road right there. My father planted those water

1703
02:04:59,215 --> 02:05:02,945
oaks when I was a child, and those water oaks were

1704
02:05:03,505 --> 02:05:06,795
probably 60 feet tall, 60 foot calipers.

1705
02:05:07,995 --> 02:05:09,975
I mean, they were huge. And

1706
02:05:12,365 --> 02:05:16,235
there again, they're some more destructive, you know, that's

1707
02:05:16,755 --> 02:05:20,715
happened. And it, it was totally unnecessary just to straighten a little

1708
02:05:20,845 --> 02:05:24,475
curve out in a road that's been there the entire time that road's been there.

1709
02:05:25,575 --> 02:05:29,475
it, it's not fair to the tree. It's not fair to the

1710
02:05:29,875 --> 02:05:33,095
wildlife that lives in these trees. Uh,

1711
02:05:35,155 --> 02:05:38,835
I take trees personally because I have dealt with them so much.

1712
02:05:40,015 --> 02:05:42,715
uh, I'm vice president of our fisher cemetery committee.

1713
02:05:45,115 --> 02:05:48,935
I just had to go in there and take down about, well, I didn't, but we

1714
02:05:49,165 --> 02:05:53,075
voted to have some trees taken down. It did not make it through

1715
02:05:53,275 --> 02:05:55,915
the drought 'cause we didn't want 'em to fall on the headstones.

1716
02:05:57,775 --> 02:06:01,655
so we had to take down about six trees and

1717
02:06:01,975 --> 02:06:05,955
uh, most of 'em were dead anyway, just to

1718
02:06:06,155 --> 02:06:09,845
the east of the cemetery. There's a church going in again.

1719
02:06:10,845 --> 02:06:13,475
three of our lova live oak trees were destroyed.

1720
02:06:15,215 --> 02:06:18,255
and those trees have never been trimmed.

1721
02:06:19,565 --> 02:06:23,465
if you trim 'em, they will grow up and their branches will

1722
02:06:23,745 --> 02:06:27,305
get bigger. If you don't trim 'em, they're gonna become a bush

1723
02:06:28,525 --> 02:06:31,785
and they'll just sit there. They don't grow.

1724
02:06:34,645 --> 02:06:38,485
I mean, talk to any tree person, they'll tell you, you know, you need to trim these trees.

1725
02:06:39,105 --> 02:06:42,715
so y'all think about what you're doing with primrose park.

1726
02:06:43,605 --> 02:06:47,165
'cause there's probably 18 trees there that we planted on that property.

1727
02:06:49,635 --> 02:06:53,205
uh, I don't know if y'all will take a tree ordinance

1728
02:06:53,685 --> 02:06:57,315
into consideration. The city of rockport has 'em because

1729
02:06:58,025 --> 02:07:01,965
the wind blows their trees and they won't let you cut a tree down

1730
02:07:02,305 --> 02:07:06,265
in the city of rockport without a permit. Uh,

1731
02:07:06,755 --> 02:07:10,075
there's other cities that have, you know, permits,

1732
02:07:11,345 --> 02:07:15,265
you know, to be able before you can destroy a tree. So

1733
02:07:15,485 --> 02:07:18,645
anyway, I'm just asking y'all to please take these trees into consideration.

1734
02:07:20,235 --> 02:07:24,125
it's sad what has happened to the fred bray property. And the developer

1735
02:07:24,685 --> 02:07:28,685
will go back in and they will bring a spade truck in and plant a tree.

1736
02:07:29,895 --> 02:07:33,825
it'll take 60 years for that tree to get as big as

1737
02:07:34,045 --> 02:07:37,805
those pecan trees were. Thank you. Thanks

1738
02:07:38,225 --> 02:07:42,155
john. Thank you. So you can see on the, I've put some pictures up

1739
02:07:42,315 --> 02:07:46,265
here that I went out. This is the brace track. Um, after it's been cleared, it's

1740
02:07:46,555 --> 02:07:50,465
land. So I went out there. Jesus, if you just do the next one over, you'll see another angle of it. This

1741
02:07:50,755 --> 02:07:54,545
is those large pecan trees that were a clear cut. And as, uh, mr. Mccann also

1742
02:07:55,115 --> 02:07:59,015
referenced, um, previously fulcher run was also clear cut of the majority of

1743
02:07:59,335 --> 02:08:02,995
the pecan trees. There were some that were kept in the, um, drainage

1744
02:08:03,555 --> 02:08:07,555
areas, which was appreciable. What I would like to consider, um, as a

1745
02:08:07,675 --> 02:08:11,195
bit of a discussion here, is part of that tree trimming, which is mr. Mccann also,

1746
02:08:12,015 --> 02:08:15,595
um, mention. And, um, ms. Barron, you also did say, are we being proper stewards

1747
02:08:16,075 --> 02:08:19,845
of our parkland today? We're not, if we're not maintaining those large trees

1748
02:08:20,295 --> 02:08:24,075
to encourage their growth, but I think for sure we wanna have, um, that

1749
02:08:24,315 --> 02:08:28,115
character of country. And yes, I do agree we are coastal prairie

1750
02:08:28,655 --> 02:08:32,195
by our environment and our bio climate. However, these larger

1751
02:08:32,725 --> 02:08:36,395
trees that are a hundred year old plus should be preserved as long as obviously

1752
02:08:36,755 --> 02:08:40,495
they are healthy and not, um, at risk to public, um,

1753
02:08:41,355 --> 02:08:45,315
destruction. Their other, um, tree of note that you may or not be aware of

1754
02:08:45,535 --> 02:08:49,435
in the city of re is on shady lane. They have a large tree in the

1755
02:08:49,595 --> 02:08:53,395
middle of the road with either roads going either side of it, and that's

1756
02:08:53,635 --> 02:08:57,295
a, that's a character. And I've seen it in a number of places in other cities as well. So

1757
02:08:57,645 --> 02:09:01,635
while you may want to automatically cut down a tree to make a road

1758
02:09:02,035 --> 02:09:05,995
straight, there are other options as well with public safety, obviously, number one. But at the same time,

1759
02:09:06,115 --> 02:09:10,095
we wanna maintain some of the character that we do have of our city. We

1760
02:09:10,315 --> 02:09:14,235
don't want to, you know, nickel and dime people. We want. It's one of those big ones. We're not trying to

1761
02:09:14,355 --> 02:09:18,275
replace it with drunk trees, which we do have in our ordinance, which every council member has in front of

1762
02:09:18,395 --> 02:09:22,315
you today. Um, but just is this something that we would like to revisit?

1763
02:09:22,955 --> 02:09:26,275
I think yes, especially when it comes to maintaining our current trees.

1764
02:09:27,215 --> 02:09:30,955
and then also maybe we do need to revisit the clear cutting, direct clear cutting

1765
02:09:31,415 --> 02:09:35,105
as these new developers come, developments come in. We don't have very

1766
02:09:35,425 --> 02:09:39,355
many, very much land in the city limits today to protect.

1767
02:09:41,055 --> 02:09:44,635
so I, I know that in the creation of the

1768
02:09:45,075 --> 02:09:48,025
cdo, we tried to take up tree preservations

1769
02:09:49,095 --> 02:09:52,915
to, to an extent, um, within the cdo though.

1770
02:09:53,855 --> 02:09:57,795
um, and that's why I was just reminding myself what the, the notes on that are. There's,

1771
02:09:58,235 --> 02:10:02,145
there's a couple places you can easily look within the cdo to find those tree

1772
02:10:02,635 --> 02:10:06,505
preservation sections. Um, but within that,

1773
02:10:07,375 --> 02:10:10,855
really the requirements that we currently have simply

1774
02:10:12,425 --> 02:10:16,005
incentivize the landowner for keeping those large

1775
02:10:16,525 --> 02:10:20,355
trees. Um, that's the, there's an incentive

1776
02:10:20,715 --> 02:10:24,625
there to do it, but there's no requirement to preserve. So, yeah.

1777
02:10:25,495 --> 02:10:29,425
um, I would just like to say as a fellow tree lover and amateur

1778
02:10:29,955 --> 02:10:33,565
arborist, I love this. I think it's important. I definitely

1779
02:10:34,105 --> 02:10:38,065
see trimming of trees as just seeing full growth on them. Um,

1780
02:10:38,725 --> 02:10:42,605
I I do think, um, as I think we all just got this

1781
02:10:42,805 --> 02:10:46,765
today, if I'm not wrong, so it wasn't in our packet, um, I definitely

1782
02:10:47,085 --> 02:10:50,925
would like some time to review it in detail. I was already looking at a couple things

1783
02:10:51,225 --> 02:10:54,685
in here, which I, I think we would need to make a little bit clearer,

1784
02:10:55,305 --> 02:10:59,205
um, specifically from a penalty perspective. 'cause what are you gonna have

1785
02:10:59,325 --> 02:11:03,285
an ordinance if you don't have a penalty and it means anything? Um, I think we have to

1786
02:11:03,405 --> 02:11:06,685
be specific on the class of the misdemeanor, uh, to be clear.

1787
02:11:07,665 --> 02:11:11,645
um, and then also the actual fine itself I think would need

1788
02:11:11,845 --> 02:11:14,245
to be addressed. And the fine needs to be

1789
02:11:16,095 --> 02:11:19,825
substantial enough where it is actual a deterrent. Um, I don't think

1790
02:11:20,225 --> 02:11:24,125
a developer or somebody coming in if they had a fine for $50 for

1791
02:11:24,505 --> 02:11:27,305
removing 150 year old tree is gonna even care about that.

1792
02:11:28,565 --> 02:11:32,525
so I think that would be something that we need to put into consideration, uh, for

1793
02:11:32,745 --> 02:11:36,565
it. But I definitely 100% support, uh, an ordinance. Yeah. And

1794
02:11:36,825 --> 02:11:40,485
I would note that our, that our cdo does say you cannot remove

1795
02:11:41,025 --> 02:11:44,815
a tree unless it's part of a permit, um, as far as that

1796
02:11:45,195 --> 02:11:49,025
clear cut or any of those kinds of things. So it is, it is con there,

1797
02:11:49,305 --> 02:11:53,225
there is the means, um, within the ceo to support,

1798
02:11:53,805 --> 02:11:57,665
uh, to enforce such an ordinance. I would put forth, maybe

1799
02:11:58,045 --> 02:12:01,795
we could consider a tree registry for the significant trees.

1800
02:12:02,765 --> 02:12:06,315
the city of houston has one of these. And so citizens developers

1801
02:12:08,045 --> 02:12:11,315
can input on an online

1802
02:12:12,285 --> 02:12:16,235
form that signifies how how big the

1803
02:12:16,455 --> 02:12:19,865
tree is, et cetera, gives, um, measurement,

1804
02:12:20,815 --> 02:12:24,675
how you measure trees, et cetera. So now they have, yeah, I looked at, city of

1805
02:12:24,835 --> 02:12:28,515
houston's is about six pages right now, so we're talking pretty significant

1806
02:12:28,995 --> 02:12:32,575
trees. I don't think this would be every tree. You know, not every homeowner's

1807
02:12:33,135 --> 02:12:36,975
gonna have to go out and measure their trees. These are like the really significant ones that we're really trying

1808
02:12:37,475 --> 02:12:39,695
to preserve a hundred old growth trees.

1809
02:12:47,885 --> 02:12:51,785
so I was just asking, um, to put the big tree on there we go along with john next to it.

1810
02:12:52,285 --> 02:12:52,285
thanks.

1811
02:12:57,135 --> 02:13:00,935
I think I just need time to look at this. And I think as I,

1812
02:13:01,575 --> 02:13:05,375
I am supportive of pre preservation. I do think

1813
02:13:05,615 --> 02:13:08,815
that it can also, if you don't think it through

1814
02:13:09,635 --> 02:13:13,425
it can have some other things come back, which maybe

1815
02:13:13,835 --> 02:13:17,725
are not, uh, good. I, I remember 2015, I remember several,

1816
02:13:18,245 --> 02:13:22,225
several, um, I even,

1817
02:13:22,585 --> 02:13:26,585
I had a personal situation with a house, but I'm, I'm not going to gonna bring that one

1818
02:13:26,785 --> 02:13:30,425
up, but I just think that there's some things, if we don't think through, for example, primrose

1819
02:13:31,050 --> 02:13:34,965
park, do we have any trees there that, that we will be putting

1820
02:13:35,485 --> 02:13:39,345
a ball field over. So, so see, I think that if it,

1821
02:13:40,595 --> 02:13:44,505
once we do this, we really need to be thoughtful about it and

1822
02:13:44,745 --> 02:13:48,605
not, uh, and make sure it works and not

1823
02:13:48,805 --> 02:13:52,605
be overly burdensome. So yeah, I think that would, I think a registry would help

1824
02:13:52,905 --> 02:13:56,445
in that circumstance. Agree. So you would know the significant trees. And then

1825
02:13:56,945 --> 02:14:00,375
if a developer or whatever, you know, development comes,

1826
02:14:00,955 --> 02:14:04,805
then we have a list that we can look to and we can take them one at

1827
02:14:04,965 --> 02:14:08,845
a time to consider. Right. Whether we do wanna remove it or not. Yeah. Yeah.

1828
02:14:09,185 --> 02:14:11,145
so city testimony, cis yes.

1829
02:14:13,855 --> 02:14:17,835
so I, uh, took a look at, uh, some cities in the

1830
02:14:17,955 --> 02:14:21,955
state of texas right. That have, uh, a preservation landscape

1831
02:14:22,515 --> 02:14:25,675
ordinance, uh, participating. So there's quite a few.

1832
02:14:26,945 --> 02:14:30,915
addison austin, brian burleson, cedar hill college station, so forth, corpus

1833
02:14:31,115 --> 02:14:34,995
christi, port, you know, and san antonio. And then I went in and started looking at

1834
02:14:35,215 --> 02:14:38,395
san antonio and their ordinance must be like, I don't know,

1835
02:14:39,335 --> 02:14:42,785
I'm guessing 20 something pages. So, uh, it's extensive,

1836
02:14:43,565 --> 02:14:47,205
right? I mean, it's significant. So to your point about being

1837
02:14:48,885 --> 02:14:52,635
thoughtful and considerate about how we go forward, I think it's a great

1838
02:14:52,945 --> 02:14:56,915
idea. Um, but there are, I think there are a few things

1839
02:14:57,115 --> 02:15:00,875
that you want to try and achieve, but not everything that you could possibly throw

1840
02:15:01,155 --> 02:15:05,015
under there. Like, uh, like, uh, the city of san antonio has, for

1841
02:15:05,235 --> 02:15:08,725
example, but, uh, it could be, uh, burdensome,

1842
02:15:10,215 --> 02:15:14,125
right? And, uh, I mean, it will be somewhat burdensome and it will

1843
02:15:14,315 --> 02:15:18,245
cost, uh, additional money, uh, for employees

1844
02:15:18,625 --> 02:15:22,525
to oversee the, the, the preservation, whatever

1845
02:15:22,645 --> 02:15:26,145
stipulations are in there, the permitting, the so forth and so on. So

1846
02:15:26,745 --> 02:15:30,345
we just need to be cognizant of how big of a deal it's right. And, uh,

1847
02:15:31,365 --> 02:15:35,005
I don't know how we go about maybe putting a group of people together

1848
02:15:35,385 --> 02:15:39,125
to consider drafting the key components

1849
02:15:39,525 --> 02:15:43,445
of an ordinance or how, how do we go about that? 'cause I mean, as a

1850
02:15:43,565 --> 02:15:45,085
council, we can't sit here and do that, right?

1851
02:15:50,005 --> 02:15:53,455
yeah. So I'm hearing there's an appetite, um, to consider a tree ordinance.

1852
02:15:54,115 --> 02:15:58,045
um, we've got some work to do to make sure that we get to what the ramifications

1853
02:15:58,995 --> 02:16:02,755
of that are. Um, and, um,

1854
02:16:04,155 --> 02:16:08,135
so we will, uh, begin to address how do we, how do we move forward? We

1855
02:16:08,335 --> 02:16:12,255
do have a draft from the 2015 ordinance. At least we have a

1856
02:16:12,375 --> 02:16:16,335
place to begin from, so, okay. Any other

1857
02:16:16,775 --> 02:16:20,775
comments? Uh, yes. Specificity request. Are you requesting staff to start

1858
02:16:21,055 --> 02:16:24,855
preparing something? This is some kind of a baseline or, um, let's, let's have some,

1859
02:16:25,745 --> 02:16:29,655
let's have some conversations with, um, maybe let's, let's,

1860
02:16:30,005 --> 02:16:33,995
let's let sarah take lead since she brought this first of all, and work

1861
02:16:34,285 --> 02:16:38,285
with staff to figure out how to move forward. Let, let's walk through

1862
02:16:38,565 --> 02:16:42,425
moving forward, um, versus just here. Go do it. Um,

1863
02:16:43,205 --> 02:16:46,955
I, I think there's gonna be, need to be some research, um, as to what

1864
02:16:47,445 --> 02:16:51,405
kind of penalties can be enforced. Um, if the state

1865
02:16:51,785 --> 02:16:55,605
has any preemption in this, um, I can, I can tell

1866
02:16:55,805 --> 02:16:59,565
you a hundred percent. If, if the bill that's being

1867
02:17:00,005 --> 02:17:03,405
challenged currently, um, passes, then a tree ordinance will not matter.

1868
02:17:04,305 --> 02:17:07,915
um, because the state is going to preempt that ordinance immensely.

1869
02:17:09,065 --> 02:17:12,795
so we need to see, we need to do some, well, there does, there will have to be some legal work

1870
02:17:13,145 --> 02:17:16,925
on the preemption. What can we do as far as enforcement goes?

1871
02:17:17,985 --> 02:17:21,235
um, there's, there is the reality that,

1872
02:17:22,385 --> 02:17:26,185
um, whether we like it or not, one

1873
02:17:26,405 --> 02:17:30,065
of those trees may get removed at some point in time. So, okay, what's the,

1874
02:17:30,825 --> 02:17:34,285
what's the compensation for that removal of that tree?

1875
02:17:34,865 --> 02:17:38,475
um, all of the, there, there's a whole lot that goes into

1876
02:17:39,335 --> 02:17:43,145
preserving that tree. And so, uh, I don't want to just say,

1877
02:17:43,715 --> 02:17:47,645
here, go do it. I want to say, let's figure out a path forward.

1878
02:17:48,745 --> 02:17:52,715
um, and if counsel's amenable, maybe, um, for liaison

1879
02:17:53,315 --> 02:17:57,065
from counsel, sarah b. Point on that since you brought it to

1880
02:17:57,585 --> 02:17:59,965
our attention at this time. And do you have cycles throughout

1881
02:18:02,815 --> 02:18:06,745
cycles? Availability, yeah.

1882
02:18:07,035 --> 02:18:10,455
bandwidth, resources, resource. So

1883
02:18:11,645 --> 02:18:15,315
legal, we may have to outsource.

1884
02:18:16,455 --> 02:18:20,355
so we do have that contract where we can, if it, so how will the rest of counsel

1885
02:18:20,905 --> 02:18:24,855
will we just wait for them to come back? Yeah. Can we provide any input? You can provide input to

1886
02:18:25,365 --> 02:18:29,115
sarah and to sarah. Okay. Then we'll go, we'll go from that point. Everybody's don't,

1887
02:18:29,435 --> 02:18:33,395
don't we have, uh, uh, aren't we gonna have an issue there if we're providing

1888
02:18:33,805 --> 02:18:37,795
input on an issue outside of yeah. We can't do it outside of well, that's my point.

1889
02:18:38,065 --> 02:18:41,885
give it directly even though she, even though she's give it directly to jack, send send any input

1890
02:18:42,635 --> 02:18:45,575
directly to city manager. Correct. So,

1891
02:18:46,845 --> 02:18:50,515
and then in a council meeting, she'll update us as needed.

1892
02:18:53,725 --> 02:18:57,295
okay. Discussion, uh, item g discussion regarding city council

1893
02:18:57,975 --> 02:19:01,855
redistricting. Um, this shouldn't surprise us.

1894
02:19:02,085 --> 02:19:04,315
immense growth within the city. Um,

1895
02:19:06,525 --> 02:19:10,305
the districts are gonna get out. We knew this coming in districts, were gonna get outta whack

1896
02:19:10,585 --> 02:19:14,395
pretty quick. So in light of time tonight, I just wanna ask one, maybe byron

1897
02:19:14,745 --> 02:19:18,455
can answer this. There are stipulations about redistricting that we can't even

1898
02:19:18,965 --> 02:19:22,865
go redistrict until we have a census or something like that. What are, what are

1899
02:19:23,025 --> 02:19:26,905
the so, um, yeah, the limitation, well, you

1900
02:19:27,085 --> 02:19:30,925
can, you can redistrict any time you'd like, you just have to do it properly. Uh, it's easiest

1901
02:19:31,225 --> 02:19:35,165
to do properly when you rely on the census figures. Um, but if you

1902
02:19:35,325 --> 02:19:39,005
choose to redistrict any other time, uh, besides the census, you have to have

1903
02:19:39,395 --> 02:19:43,165
similar reliable data so that, um, you're, you're sticking within the boundaries

1904
02:19:43,645 --> 02:19:47,505
of the, um, the voting rights act, which essentially just to paraphrase it as one person, one

1905
02:19:47,725 --> 02:19:51,565
vote. So you have to draw your districts in a way that doesn't disenfranchise the voting power

1906
02:19:51,905 --> 02:19:55,645
of any particular person that is on one side or the other of a boundary line.

1907
02:19:55,945 --> 02:19:59,765
so we would have to hire a consulting group to come in to help us draw those boundaries. And

1908
02:19:59,965 --> 02:20:03,805
so it would be costly to the city to do so. I, I mean, I'm just trying

1909
02:20:04,005 --> 02:20:07,605
to, to, to put this out there to avoid I I'm just saying

1910
02:20:08,225 --> 02:20:12,165
we, we've no, no, I'm, I agree. I agree that we're having a lot of growth.

1911
02:20:13,125 --> 02:20:16,495
I just don't know that right now we have the facts.

1912
02:20:17,955 --> 02:20:21,725
uh, but I'm not sure when, as we see these developments come

1913
02:20:22,015 --> 02:20:25,695
in maybe a year. I think the, I think the other point is, is that in the request

1914
02:20:26,175 --> 02:20:30,175
from council member pool, if we could leave by eight, eight o'clock, I would say that

1915
02:20:30,565 --> 02:20:34,535
none of this is happening for the upcoming election. We have further time to discuss this and

1916
02:20:34,695 --> 02:20:38,515
talk about it. And so I think we should table this for another meeting. You

1917
02:20:38,735 --> 02:20:42,455
can make that motion, uh, to table should you choose. I will make

1918
02:20:42,875 --> 02:20:45,955
one comment, only one comment. When we

1919
02:20:47,155 --> 02:20:50,655
did the calculations for the current

1920
02:20:51,415 --> 02:20:55,115
districting, we knew that we were probably gonna have to revisit this, uh, 2000,

1921
02:20:55,655 --> 02:20:59,595
20, 25 ish, right? Yes. Um, and we put these as

1922
02:21:00,475 --> 02:21:04,235
the two smallest districts were where all were one

1923
02:21:05,115 --> 02:21:08,645
and five, knowing that five was nearing

1924
02:21:09,145 --> 02:21:12,955
completion of build out by its current boundaries. Um,

1925
02:21:14,075 --> 02:21:17,975
and then one which is we knew was gonna be

1926
02:21:18,355 --> 02:21:22,005
the largest district when we did that. So that being said,

1927
02:21:22,915 --> 02:21:26,535
um, if you would like to make that motion, I'd like to make a motion to table this discussion

1928
02:21:27,155 --> 02:21:31,015
for the next general meeting. Regular meeting. Okay. So we have a motion

1929
02:21:31,235 --> 02:21:35,195
on the table, um, by mr. Gavi, a second by ms. Johnson to

1930
02:21:35,675 --> 02:21:39,235
I'm not ms. Johnson. Ms. Kates to table. Um,

1931
02:21:39,885 --> 02:21:43,815
this until the next regular scheduled meeting.

1932
02:21:44,355 --> 02:21:47,615
so the february the third, tuesday in february.

1933
02:21:48,675 --> 02:21:52,235
any further questions or comments? All in favor? Aye.

1934
02:21:52,795 --> 02:21:56,355
any opposed? There is none. The motion carries. Um,

1935
02:21:57,115 --> 02:22:00,765
moving on to, uh, item

1936
02:22:01,235 --> 02:22:04,975
10, consideration, possible accident relating to any absences. Are there any

1937
02:22:05,255 --> 02:22:09,215
absences we need to address? You'll be back for

1938
02:22:09,335 --> 02:22:13,055
the regular. Anything else?

1939
02:22:13,475 --> 02:22:17,475
no. Okay. With that, I'll take one last motion. May I make a motion? We

1940
02:22:17,695 --> 02:22:21,495
adjourn? Okay. We have a motion on mr. Second by mr. Pool to adjourn at 7:52 pm

1941
02:22:22,995 --> 02:22:24,685
on tuesday, january 23rd.

1942
02:22:27,745 --> 02:22:30,815
uh, any all in 7 52?

1943
02:22:31,765 --> 02:22:35,045
I already said the time. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed?

1944
02:22:36,295 --> 02:22:40,025
there is none. Uh, we stand adjourned. 7:52 pm on

1945
02:22:40,315 --> 02:22:43,765
tuesday, january 23rd. Thank you all. Have a great evening.