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Good evening and welcome everyone. My name
is Patricia Hart.

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I have the honor of serving as mayor and
it's my privilege to welcome you to a

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regular Gardner City Council meeting.

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Tonight is Wednesday, September 2nd in the
year 2026.

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We'll open the meeting with the roll call,
starting with Councilor Holmes, please.

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Hi there, Kendall Holmes from Riverview
Drive down in South Gardiner representing

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District 4.

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Hello and good evening.

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I'm Shawn Dolley, District 3, and I reside
on Lincoln Avenue.

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Good evening and welcome. I'm Veronica
Babcock.

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I live on West Street and represent
District 2.

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Good evening, everyone, and welcome. My
name is Debra Kimball.

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I live on Prairie Street and I represent
District 1.

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Uh, good evening and welcome.

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My name is Patricia Hart and I have the
honor of serving as mayor.

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Good evening everyone, my name is Tim
Cusick and I serve at large.

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Good evening and welcome, my name is
Russell Greenleaf,

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I live on Cobsey Avenue and I serve at
large.

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Hi, I'm Marc Cone, I live on Karen Drive
and I serve at large.

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I'm Thomas Hill, I'm city manager for
Gardner.

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Alissa Landis, deputy city clerk. Uh,
please join us in the Pledge of

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please join us in the Pledge of
Allegiance.

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I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the

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United States of America and to the
republic

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for which it stands, one nation under God,
indivisible,

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with liberty and justice for all.

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All right, before we take our formal
public comment time,

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we did get correspondence over the last
today or so of a group of folks that want

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today or so of a group of folks that want
to

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talk about bow hunting in the high-density
residential neighborhoods.

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And so they, they want more time,

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they would like more time than the public
comment time.

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So I'm going to ask council if they'd be
willing to add a new business for H,

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I guess it would be,

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to talk about bow hunting and have them
share their thinking on that,

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their concerns. Everybody okay with that?
I see all Heads nodding. Yeah. Okay.

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All right. So we'll do that.

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So now we'll open up time for public
comment for anything that is not on the

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comment for anything that is not on the
agenda.

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Now that we've put that on the agenda,

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is there anyone here who would like to
speak on a matter that's not on the

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speak on a matter that's not on the
agenda?

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All right. City Manager Hill, did we get
any correspondence?

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We did not.

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Okay.

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All right.

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We'll close public hearing— time for
public comment, move on to public

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public comment, move on to public
hearings.

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We don't have any public hearings this
week, so we'll move on to new business.

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And our first item of new business is a
mayoral proclamation for Mr. Robert Abbey.

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So we'll invite Robert to come forward,
please.

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Where would

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you like me?

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To the front.

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I'll give you my seat.

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All right, so it is my honor to issue this
proclamation to thank you for your 15

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years of really remarkable service in the
city.

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I feel like we should have done this
sooner.

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I never like doing things when people are
on their way out, but, but It— you—

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it's well deserved, and we're really happy
to do it to celebrate you.

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All right, so I have a proclamation.

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Whereas Robert Abbey has long enriched the
city of Gardner as a devoted resident and

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tireless volunteer, and whereas for more
than 15 years Robert has generously shared

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his talents in service to communities
throughout Central Maine.

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And whereas Robert's exceptional community
service includes supporting neighbors

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through the local soup kitchen,
volunteering at the Maine State Museum,

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enriching the arts through participation
in the community band and Johnson Hall

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events, helping renovate Johnson Hall—

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I think it was the destruction part of the
renovation right there—

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caring for the Palmer Fountain, preserving
local history and the community archives.

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Thank you.

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Advancing downtown revitalization, park
improvements,

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and the beautification of public spaces,
and delighting local children.

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Whereas Robert has strengthened and
beautified the Gardner community through

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beautified the Gardner community through
his

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service as president of Gardner Main
Street,

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chair of the Streetscape Committee and
Gardner's Gardeners,

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chair of the Parks and Public Places
Committee,

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a member of the Tree Committee and
Historic Preservation Committee,

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An honorary member of the city's Buildings
and Grounds Department,

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orchestrator-in-chief of the Palmer
Fountain Restoration,

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conductor on the Polar Express, and a dear
friend of Santa Claus.

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Whereas Robert's devotion to the greater
Gardner area extends beyond the formal

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service to the everyday acts of care that
strengthen the community—

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watering plants and trees, Clearing weeds
from brick sidewalks,

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painting railings and pools, tending
parks, removing litter,

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and of course the cigarette butts,

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and rolling up his sleeves to help
wherever he is needed.

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And whereas, through these enduring
contributions,

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Robert's unwavering dedication has
improved Gardiner's neighborhoods,

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improved Gardiner's neighborhoods,
businesses,

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public spaces, and civic life.

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Now therefore, I, Patricia Hart, Mayor of
the City of Gardiner,

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Together with the City Council, hereby
proclaim Wednesday, September 9th, 2026,

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as Robert Abbey Day in the City of
Gardner. And I didn't even cry.

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Uh, I'll have you talk from up here. And
I'll give you the microphone.

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Congratulations. But before you do, at
this time,

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I'd entertain a motion to adopt the
proclamation.

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Thank you, Mayor. I move to approve the
mayoral proclamation for Robert Abbey.

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Motion made by Councilor Greenleaf,
seconded by Councilor Cone. All in favor?

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That's unanimous.

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Nobody voted against. So bear with me.
This is my last hurrah. I made some notes.

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I'm at the point in my life where I walk
into a room and I go,

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what did I come in here for? So notes.

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In 2011, when I first showed up here, I
was working at Mount Desert Campground.

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And Martha, my partner, and I had been
looking at houses in Maine.

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Now, because we're from Massachusetts
originally, we were looking on the coast,

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of course. And then she called me up and
said,

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I'd really like you to look at a house in
Gardiner.

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I go, Gardiner's in central Maine.

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Central Massachusetts.

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No, not that Gardner. It's one with— has
an I in it. So I said, well, where is it?

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Well, you know how everybody tells where
Gardner is.

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It's just off the rest stop on 295.

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Has nothing to do with what Gardner really
is like.

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So I came and I parked at 79 Elm Street.

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Woman came running out saying, do you want
to see my house?

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Sure.

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So we did, even though there was no
realtor present.

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And I loved the house and That's the short
story.

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So we ended up there and it's been
amazing.

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I called Martha back and said, the house
is great.

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And I was sitting in what I think was
Dearborn Park,

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but I didn't know the parks by name at
that point.

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I was impressed by the facades and the
preserved architecture and the ambiance of

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the street and the river and the parks. I
said, this is it.

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She said, what are you talking about? I
said, this is Bedford Falls.

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And it truly is. I mean,

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I tried to convince Mike Michelin for
years to do an outside—

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there's an outside version of It's a
Wonderful Life. And we have a river.

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We have a savings and loan. We have a
story to go with it.

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And we actually have an angel named
Clarence. A real person.

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He doesn't like you to know that. But he's
real and he's a great volunteer.

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And he is aware that he's named after that
angel.

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I want to thank some people and I want to
just run through this part quickly.

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City staff is always willing to help. I've
never been turned away.

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You don't have people say you can't ask
those kinds of questions.

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In Gardner, they want to know more.

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Gardner Main Street, City Council, always
backing the projects, downtown business.

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And a diversion, because I just thought of
this today when I was in the room trying

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to remember what I was supposed to be
doing.

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Anybody remember Daniel Lane from the
Village Jeweler?

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Yes.

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Oh my. Our assignment from Gardiner Main
Street was to go interview 5 business

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owners, each board member. I got Daniel
Lane. I didn't know Daniel Lane.

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I knew the store. I went in. I said, would
it be okay?

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I'm from Gardiner Main Street and I'd like
to really chat with you about your

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business and your time in Gardiner. He
goes, Get out of my store. I said, why?

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I don't have solicitors. So I left.

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One day, maybe a month later, it was
pouring rain on a Tuesday.

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So you know what Water Street was like.

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It was abandoned.

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He was sitting behind the counter.

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Now, Daniel is not the nice guy who's out
front at Village Jeweler.

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He's the guy in the back who owns it all.

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I went in and said, I was here the other
day,

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but I really love to talk with you about
your time in town as a businessman,

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the business itself, what Gardner's like.

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3 hours later, I knew everything about his
family, about his business,

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about his life, and the almost complete
history of the Russian Orthodox Church.

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That's the downtown business community,
and they are so important.

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I want to thank Rotary.

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Rotary does so much, and they always do
exactly what they say they will do.

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The Tree Committee I'll say some more
about that in a minute.

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I want to welcome Thomas Hill and family.

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Mayors Harnett and Hart, they were great
to work with.

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They encouraged us all the time.

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Patrick Wright, Melissa Lindley from
Gardiner Main Street.

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Melissa's still honchoing things from City
Hall.

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She's going to take over our signage
project. Dawn Thistle and Jody Clark.

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And Dorothy, from whom I learned all the
history I could about this community.

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And Dawn is a friend and a confidante.
She's also a good witch.

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Should I explain that or not?

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No.

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All right.

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She helps with Halloween.

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I've had good volunteers all the way
along,

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but I have to single out the heads of
public works I met regularly with.

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Tony with Jerry, and I meet with John.

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And John is really very interesting
because he does everything he says he will

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because he does everything he says he will
do.

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He does it. And he does it rapidly and on
time.

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The only time I think I startled him was
when I went in for one of the meetings and

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I said, well, I should tell you that I was
really bored this weekend,

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so I scrubbed the ceiling of the gazebo.
And he just looked at me.

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The kids shake up their sodas with the
bottles,

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and then they take their thumb off and it
goes— and it goes all over the ceiling.

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It turns to goo. It kind of needs it now,
John. I looked the other day.

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We practiced something that Patrik taught
us called tactical urbanism.

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It's not just an accident the way
committees came and did things.

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It's out of Bates College, so it's a main
product Here it is,

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How to Hack Your City with Paint,
Planters,

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and Pop-Up Parks and Prove Change Is
Possible Now. The emphasis is on now.

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You don't ask for permission. You get it
later. We never had to ask forgiveness.

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We often came to city council with a
project underway, and we'd get support.

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And we'd sometimes get immediate funding.
They'd say, let's fund some of this.

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The city always said, do more.

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And so there aren't many communities where
you can invent your own committees and

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then find support. I want to mention 3
things really quickly: the fountain,

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the trees, and Johnson Hall.

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The fountain was an important project for
us partly because it was a rescue.

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It had been beautifully redone in 1977 by
some of Dorothy's associates and Statue

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made for that occasion.

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There is one funny story beyond this, and
Dorothy will deny this.

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A 9-year-old son of the artist was here
when they were mounting Lady and the Birds

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on her pedestal. Now, I've talked to this.
He's a grown-up man now.

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He said, well, we were all ready to bolt
her down on the pedestal,

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and somebody came out of the church and
said, you're going to have to turn that—

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Pedestal.

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person around. As you know, the Lady is
not wearing clothes,

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and the church apparently objected.

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So they willingly turned it around, bolted
her down,

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and now the church has a very different
vantage point.

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But Lady appropriately looks out over the
whole vista of the Common.

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When it was redone a couple of years ago,
everybody was on board.

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Rusty was a right-hand person on the
fundraising.

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I got to say, we thank Rotary, KSB, Peter
Prescott, the Davis Family Foundation,

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00:14:02,056 --> 00:14:06,782
Robinson Fund, and the other one, Coombs,
and Public Works.

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And the $180,000— we came up a little
short.

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Guess who found the remainder of money in
a budget?

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The city.

222
00:14:17,062 --> 00:14:21,476
So the city provided manpower and guided
the whole process.

223
00:14:21,476 --> 00:14:27,088
Lady went to Public Works to be protected
while they tore everything apart.

224
00:14:27,088 --> 00:14:31,801
And everybody asked me, where's the
fountain? Where's the lady?

225
00:14:31,801 --> 00:14:35,617
I said, she's at a secure location. We
didn't tell.

226
00:14:35,617 --> 00:14:41,827
I would say that the most recent committee
other than the Parks Committee that came

227
00:14:41,827 --> 00:14:44,371
to be is Dorothy's Tree Committee.

228
00:14:44,371 --> 00:14:50,506
Jessica Lowell, who was then a reporter
for Gardner for the KJ, is a great person.

229
00:14:50,506 --> 00:14:56,641
She's fun. She called me, and she'd called
to get the straight story on something.

230
00:14:56,641 --> 00:15:01,654
She said, so I hear that Gardner is
clear-cutting its common. What?

231
00:15:01,654 --> 00:15:03,599
Well, it was in a fashion.

232
00:15:03,599 --> 00:15:09,585
All the old diseased trees were being
taken down because they were hollow in the

233
00:15:09,585 --> 00:15:12,428
middle. They had decreased production.

234
00:15:12,428 --> 00:15:12,556
Yeah.

235
00:15:13,022 --> 00:15:19,605
They were just in— the last time it had
been pruned was in the ice storm of 1998.

236
00:15:19,605 --> 00:15:24,969
And now reforestation has come thanks to
Dorothy's tree committee.

237
00:15:24,969 --> 00:15:27,326
Are we up to almost 40 trees?

238
00:15:27,326 --> 00:15:29,364
33.

239
00:15:29,364 --> 00:15:34,618
33 new trees planted in the last 5 years
or so on the Common, at the waterfront,

240
00:15:34,618 --> 00:15:35,931
and in other places.

241
00:15:35,931 --> 00:15:41,251
But be advised, Dorothy has her eye on a
linden tree that is by Roger Bintliff's.

242
00:15:41,251 --> 00:15:46,505
And it has a sidewalk that goes like this
because it goes up and over the roots.

243
00:15:46,505 --> 00:15:51,561
And she knows that the DOT did say at one
point, and it's written down, well,

244
00:15:51,561 --> 00:15:56,946
we could just have a slight rise on the
new sidewalks and just preserve that tree.

245
00:15:56,946 --> 00:15:58,851
And she will not forget that.

246
00:15:58,851 --> 00:15:59,480
Right.

247
00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:01,949
One last story about Johnson Hall.

248
00:16:01,949 --> 00:16:07,177
This really sums up everything that
happened here during Heart and Soul.

249
00:16:07,177 --> 00:16:09,864
And everything that's happened since.

250
00:16:09,864 --> 00:16:14,293
Yes, I was part of a group called the
Doctors of Destruction.

251
00:16:14,293 --> 00:16:16,689
It was 4 grown men with Sawzalls.

252
00:16:16,689 --> 00:16:20,392
And Mike gave us permission to demo floors
2 and 3.

253
00:16:20,392 --> 00:16:26,201
So we removed about 10 tons of wood, pipe,
debris, junk, oil burners, stovepipe.

254
00:16:26,201 --> 00:16:29,251
Everything you can think of went out back.

255
00:16:29,251 --> 00:16:34,552
And while tearing down the ceilings on the
2nd floor, they were tin over—

256
00:16:34,552 --> 00:16:40,579
Plaster over lath. We were hauling away on
a section of it, and Charlie Batchelder,

257
00:16:40,579 --> 00:16:43,628
who's a very funny person if you know him,

258
00:16:43,628 --> 00:16:47,840
was standing at the end of the section we
were working on.

259
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:52,778
All of a sudden, it took its own life and
just started shearing off,

260
00:16:52,778 --> 00:16:55,101
and it dumped on top of Charlie.

261
00:16:55,101 --> 00:16:58,877
He simply stood up and said, were you
aiming for me?

262
00:16:58,877 --> 00:17:01,433
We weren't.

263
00:17:02,156 --> 00:17:07,314
The last session of Heart and Soul was at
Gardner Area High School.

264
00:17:07,314 --> 00:17:12,010
Some of you might have been there. Lots of
people were there.

265
00:17:12,010 --> 00:17:15,551
It was after several years of hard, hard
work.

266
00:17:15,551 --> 00:17:21,171
We had to make a task headline for the
years of work. So we discussed it.

267
00:17:21,171 --> 00:17:26,175
What the headline ended up being was
Johnson Hall Fully Restored.

268
00:17:26,175 --> 00:17:30,102
And everybody cheered and clapped and felt
so good.

269
00:17:30,102 --> 00:17:36,491
And then we sort of went— Can we do this?
Guess what? Here's a quote from Downeast.

270
00:17:36,491 --> 00:17:42,727
In 2011, Downeast had an article that I
read. It was called The Heart of Gardner.

271
00:17:42,727 --> 00:17:47,654
Lots of interviews with people, lots of
comments from John Shaw.

272
00:17:47,654 --> 00:17:50,657
And this is what they summarized it as.

273
00:17:50,657 --> 00:17:56,277
He said, Gardner is a small city on the
Kennebec, keeps making big plans,

274
00:17:56,277 --> 00:17:59,356
and this time they might even come true.

275
00:17:59,356 --> 00:17:59,473
Wow.

276
00:18:01,249 --> 00:18:08,030
In 2021, the same magazine chose Gardner
as one of its 5 favorite small towns.

277
00:18:08,030 --> 00:18:14,463
So thank you all because you were all part
of this. Nobody succeeds alone.

278
00:18:14,463 --> 00:18:20,723
I had a lot of help. And I would do it all
again, maybe in another life.

279
00:18:20,723 --> 00:18:21,940
Thank you all.

280
00:18:21,940 --> 00:18:28,733
Thank you.

281
00:18:31,733 --> 00:18:34,854
So Robert, if you're going to do it again,
please come back to Gardner.

282
00:18:34,854 --> 00:18:40,141
Okay. All right. Thank you very much for
those remarks.

283
00:18:40,141 --> 00:18:46,869
It's really great to walk down memories
and really understand just how

284
00:18:46,869 --> 00:18:52,348
many people contribute to the richness of
this community.

285
00:18:52,348 --> 00:18:59,365
All right, and the next item on our agenda
is consideration of an outside

286
00:18:59,365 --> 00:19:02,825
consumption permit for Johnson Hall.

287
00:19:02,825 --> 00:19:09,938
City Manager Hill, any background on this
other than what's in our packet?

288
00:19:09,938 --> 00:19:11,609
No, it's very straightforward.

289
00:19:11,609 --> 00:19:14,450
They would like an addendum to their
existing work,

290
00:19:14,450 --> 00:19:16,511
and it's been reviewed by city staff.

291
00:19:16,511 --> 00:19:20,744
There's no objections, no issues that we
discovered. Pretty straightforward.

292
00:19:21,130 --> 00:19:25,338
All right, thank you. Any questions from
council?

293
00:19:25,338 --> 00:19:29,889
Anyone prepared to make a motion to begin
discussion?

294
00:19:29,889 --> 00:19:31,606
Councilor Greenleaf.

295
00:19:31,606 --> 00:19:35,516
Thank you, Mayor. I move to approve the
outside consumption permit

296
00:19:35,516 --> 00:19:39,485
application for Johnson Hall for an event
on October 23rd and 24th,

297
00:19:39,485 --> 00:19:39,781
2026.

298
00:19:39,781 --> 00:19:45,074
Motion made by Councilor Greenleaf,
seconded by Councilor Babcock. Any

299
00:19:45,074 --> 00:19:45,906
seconded by Councilor Babcock. Any
discussion?

300
00:19:45,906 --> 00:19:51,199
All in favor, please record a unanimous
The next item on the agenda is

301
00:19:51,199 --> 00:19:52,182
The next item on the agenda is
consideration

302
00:19:52,182 --> 00:19:56,946
of accepting the City Council meeting
minutes from August 19th.

303
00:19:56,946 --> 00:20:00,803
Anyone prepared to make a motion?
Councilor Cusick.

304
00:20:00,803 --> 00:20:05,922
Thank you, Mayor. I move to accept the
City Council meeting minutes for 8/19/26.

305
00:20:05,922 --> 00:20:12,572
Motion made by Councilor Cusick, seconded
by Councilor Kimball. Any discussion? No.

306
00:20:12,572 --> 00:20:16,498
With our thanks to Thank you to our deputy
clerk.

307
00:20:16,498 --> 00:20:20,103
All in favor, please record a unanimous
vote.

308
00:20:20,103 --> 00:20:25,551
The next item on the agenda is
consideration of changes to the sewer

309
00:20:25,551 --> 00:20:26,192
consideration of changes to the sewer
discount

310
00:20:26,192 --> 00:20:32,762
program. Do we want to invite our clerks
forward to talk about their proposal, or—

311
00:20:32,762 --> 00:20:39,317
Yeah, thank you. I was gonna ask Denise,
our finance director, to step up.

312
00:20:39,317 --> 00:20:41,621
She and I can answer this.

313
00:20:41,621 --> 00:20:48,176
Um, this was a discussion point that had
come up— well, should I continue?

314
00:20:48,176 --> 00:20:49,634
Yes, please.

315
00:20:49,634 --> 00:20:54,159
This is a discussion point that had come
up in one of my first meetings,

316
00:20:54,159 --> 00:20:57,113
was to re-examine our sewer assistance
program,

317
00:20:57,113 --> 00:21:01,764
and it hasn't been updated since 2017, I
believe. Is that correct, Denise?

318
00:21:01,764 --> 00:21:02,678
Yes. Yeah.

319
00:21:02,678 --> 00:21:06,541
So maybe we could overview a little bit of
the Thank you, Your Worship.

320
00:21:06,541 --> 00:21:09,806
We've come up with 3 different scenarios
you might consider,

321
00:21:09,806 --> 00:21:12,527
and so the idea today is not to vote on
something,

322
00:21:12,527 --> 00:21:16,716
but to have a bit of a discussion on the
merits of potentially increasing the

323
00:21:16,716 --> 00:21:21,178
program or other ideas that might be out
there so that we can then take it back to

324
00:21:21,178 --> 00:21:23,844
the ordinance review committee and
consider what,

325
00:21:23,844 --> 00:21:27,490
what to present to council to consider as
a final potential option.

326
00:21:27,490 --> 00:21:31,898
But the idea on this was to look at the
fact that prices have risen significantly

327
00:21:31,898 --> 00:21:36,142
over the years while our Sewer discount
program for economically disadvantaged

328
00:21:36,142 --> 00:21:38,155
residents has not changed since 2017.

329
00:21:38,155 --> 00:21:40,814
All right, thank you. Welcome.

330
00:21:40,814 --> 00:21:45,891
He said it all. Hello, Denise Brown,
Finance Director.

331
00:21:45,891 --> 00:21:50,121
Yeah, our sewer bills have gone up about
80%.

332
00:21:50,121 --> 00:21:57,360
And as City Manager Hill said, the
discount program amounts have not gone up.

333
00:21:57,360 --> 00:22:03,283
So some people— we've seen a reduction in
people participating,

334
00:22:03,283 --> 00:22:09,206
and they probably just don't feel that
it's substantial enough.

335
00:22:09,206 --> 00:22:15,548
So currently it's $25 per quarter, I
believe, is the discount.

336
00:22:15,548 --> 00:22:16,439
Yes.

337
00:22:16,439 --> 00:22:19,833
Does that scale up? Can you give us a
little overview of that?

338
00:22:19,833 --> 00:22:20,801
Sure.

339
00:22:21,591 --> 00:22:25,902
Let me get to this page here.

340
00:22:25,902 --> 00:22:32,890
So we have about 20 individuals who
receive the

341
00:22:32,890 --> 00:22:36,012
$25 a month discount,

342
00:22:36,012 --> 00:22:43,148
which is for citizens who are between the
age of

343
00:22:43,148 --> 00:22:50,284
65 and 75, and about 20 citizens who
receive the

344
00:22:50,284 --> 00:22:56,825
$45 Per quarter reduction for anyone over
76

345
00:22:56,825 --> 00:23:03,664
years old. It is based currently on 70% of
the

346
00:23:03,664 --> 00:23:07,232
median household income,

347
00:23:07,232 --> 00:23:12,584
and we used to have 63 participants,

348
00:23:12,584 --> 00:23:18,233
and it's gone down to 40 participants.

349
00:23:18,233 --> 00:23:18,508
Okay.

350
00:23:19,293 --> 00:23:24,888
So we came up with a few options for
council to

351
00:23:24,888 --> 00:23:28,698
think about. We, as I said, the,

352
00:23:28,698 --> 00:23:34,054
the quarterly base rate has increased by
80%.

353
00:23:34,054 --> 00:23:40,126
So I simply added 50% onto the current $25
and $45.

354
00:23:40,126 --> 00:23:43,459
And you can see the numbers.

355
00:23:44,417 --> 00:23:45,163
Excuse me.

356
00:23:45,163 --> 00:23:52,431
I also did a model with a 75% increase and
a model with

357
00:23:52,431 --> 00:23:59,963
100% increase. We also would recommend
that we change the

358
00:23:59,963 --> 00:24:03,267
ages from 65 to 75— from,

359
00:24:03,267 --> 00:24:09,742
from 65 to 75 to 62 to 72 for the for the
smaller

360
00:24:09,742 --> 00:24:17,010
discount, and from age 76 and older to 73
and older for

361
00:24:17,010 --> 00:24:19,653
the higher discount.

362
00:24:19,653 --> 00:24:27,185
And you can see what the impact to the
right with each of

363
00:24:27,185 --> 00:24:29,299
those scenarios.

364
00:24:29,299 --> 00:24:31,072
Thank you, Denise. Yeah,

365
00:24:31,072 --> 00:24:37,278
and we also were recommending Potentially
an option to tie it to the Social Security

366
00:24:37,278 --> 00:24:42,745
COLA on an annual basis so that you don't
have to review it in the future.

367
00:24:42,745 --> 00:24:48,803
It would get a modest— I think it was 1.8%
increase this year for Social Security,

368
00:24:48,803 --> 00:24:54,566
for example. And the idea of playing with
the ages and playing with the income

369
00:24:54,566 --> 00:24:58,112
levels was to expand it in terms of
eligibility.

370
00:24:58,112 --> 00:24:59,885
So going from, you know,

371
00:24:59,885 --> 00:25:05,722
a certain median income level to a A
slightly more generous median income level

372
00:25:05,722 --> 00:25:11,484
allows people who come in and say, oh, I'm
right on the cusp, I don't qualify,

373
00:25:11,484 --> 00:25:17,321
I make a little bit too much, allows a
little bit of space there for residents.

374
00:25:17,321 --> 00:25:22,493
And then lowering the age was specifically
tied to the retirement age.

375
00:25:22,493 --> 00:25:26,408
People are allowed to collect federal
benefits at 62.

376
00:25:26,408 --> 00:25:30,767
So we felt that was a good entry point as
well to consider.

377
00:25:30,767 --> 00:25:34,904
And again, these are all considerations
for your debate,

378
00:25:34,904 --> 00:25:40,372
but The current ordinance does outline,
you know, 65 and specific amounts,

379
00:25:40,372 --> 00:25:43,475
so we could take it back and move forward.

380
00:25:43,475 --> 00:25:48,868
The overall— we did some, some very
general numbers that are not in here,

381
00:25:48,868 --> 00:25:53,596
but there's about 1,500 accounts on our
sewer program currently,

382
00:25:53,596 --> 00:25:57,216
which are households that are receiving
services.

383
00:25:57,216 --> 00:26:02,979
If we assume the average household size in
Maine is 2.26 people per household,

384
00:26:02,979 --> 00:26:08,668
the reduced revenue at the basic level
would shift about $4.85 in cost to the

385
00:26:08,668 --> 00:26:08,963
would shift about $4.85 in cost to the
rest

386
00:26:08,963 --> 00:26:14,283
of the accounts. So increasing this
program would result in other people

387
00:26:14,283 --> 00:26:14,726
program would result in other people
paying

388
00:26:14,726 --> 00:26:16,573
$4.85 more per household.

389
00:26:16,573 --> 00:26:21,301
Per quarter or— I think the number we
looked at was per quarter.

390
00:26:21,301 --> 00:26:26,916
Yes, I could get back to you if that was
per quarter or annually. Thank you.

391
00:26:26,916 --> 00:26:32,274
So the burden would shift to the
ratepayers, not the taxpayers?

392
00:26:32,274 --> 00:26:33,033
Correct.

393
00:26:33,178 --> 00:26:33,533
Yeah.

394
00:26:33,743 --> 00:26:34,001
Yeah.

395
00:26:34,873 --> 00:26:39,567
And it's not— it's interesting because
it's not a— we're not giving money away.

396
00:26:39,567 --> 00:26:43,311
We're reducing the revenue on the program
by— with this, right?

397
00:26:43,311 --> 00:26:47,589
Because we're giving a discount on what is
normally revenue to the city.

398
00:26:47,589 --> 00:26:50,204
So we're not increasing taxes to pay for
it,

399
00:26:50,204 --> 00:26:54,482
but it would increase the overall sewer
rates slightly per, per account.

400
00:26:54,482 --> 00:26:58,107
And then in terms of other towns who are
sharing the service,

401
00:26:58,107 --> 00:27:02,920
they would not be impacted because this
would be a Gardner-specific impact on the

402
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:04,465
revenue and their revenue.

403
00:27:04,465 --> 00:27:04,706
Okay.

404
00:27:04,706 --> 00:27:11,276
Their rates are calculated locally based
on an interlocal agreement that we have

405
00:27:11,276 --> 00:27:15,792
with them, which is based on their usage
of the system.

406
00:27:15,792 --> 00:27:18,585
So you say there's 1,500 accounts,

407
00:27:18,585 --> 00:27:24,333
1,500 ratepayers in the sewer program at
the moment? Yeah, in Gardner.

408
00:27:24,333 --> 00:27:25,400
That have sewer service?

409
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:26,732
That have sewer service.

410
00:27:26,732 --> 00:27:30,729
Yeah, total number of people, not quite
sure because it's per household.

411
00:27:30,729 --> 00:27:35,820
And so I just quick math, 5 times 1,500,
$7,500. I see $22,000 here.

412
00:27:35,820 --> 00:27:41,061
Is this total and we need to just look at
a net number to come up with

413
00:27:41,061 --> 00:27:41,435
this?

414
00:27:41,435 --> 00:27:41,935
Per quarter.

415
00:27:41,935 --> 00:27:43,310
Per quarter?

416
00:27:43,310 --> 00:27:45,582
Yes, $7,500 times 4.

417
00:27:45,582 --> 00:27:46,864
Oh, times 4. Okay.

418
00:27:46,864 --> 00:27:52,191
And again, the numbers, these were
suggested amounts, like a 50% increase.

419
00:27:52,191 --> 00:27:58,022
So we showed the numbers, 75% increase,
show the numbers, 100%, show the numbers.

420
00:27:58,022 --> 00:28:03,349
It could really, I mean, it could be
anything that you feel is Potentially

421
00:28:03,349 --> 00:28:03,709
anything that you feel is Potentially
fair,

422
00:28:03,709 --> 00:28:09,036
or it could be nothing if you feel, you
know, the program can't handle it.

423
00:28:09,036 --> 00:28:14,435
But as a recommendation from us, since it
hasn't been increased in 9 years,

424
00:28:14,435 --> 00:28:17,890
we felt a 50% minimum is reasonable to
consider.

425
00:28:17,890 --> 00:28:23,433
And that would move the discount per
account per recipient from $25 to $37.50

426
00:28:23,433 --> 00:28:23,865
account per recipient from $25 to $37.50
at the

427
00:28:23,865 --> 00:28:26,241
entry level. Still fairly modest.

428
00:28:28,791 --> 00:28:32,101
Any questions for our finance director or
city manager?

429
00:28:32,101 --> 00:28:36,396
Comments?

430
00:28:36,396 --> 00:28:37,860
Comments, sure.

431
00:28:37,860 --> 00:28:44,839
Mayor Hart, I certainly appreciate the
kind-hearted thoughts behind this

432
00:28:44,839 --> 00:28:51,527
proposal, but it seems to me as if With a
discount program like this,

433
00:28:51,527 --> 00:28:57,828
we're shifting the burden over onto young
families with children,

434
00:28:57,828 --> 00:29:00,058
who use a lot of water.

435
00:29:00,058 --> 00:29:07,618
We're shifting the burden over to somebody
who happens to own a house in town,

436
00:29:07,618 --> 00:29:14,403
who is quite income challenged, but
happens to be 35, or 40 years old,

437
00:29:14,403 --> 00:29:16,439
or 50 years old. And,

438
00:29:16,439 --> 00:29:23,903
we're shifting the burden over to older
people who might live in an apartment

439
00:29:23,903 --> 00:29:30,882
that already has sewer and water paid for
as part of their rent. Mm-hmm.

440
00:29:30,882 --> 00:29:32,093
So, it's—

441
00:29:32,125 --> 00:29:39,497
this strikes me as the land of unintended
consequences in pushing up rates for other

442
00:29:39,497 --> 00:29:46,517
people, and not just those of us who We're
fortunate enough that— well, so well.

443
00:29:46,517 --> 00:29:48,536
It's a little bit more.

444
00:29:48,536 --> 00:29:54,328
We're pushing rates higher on people for
whom it is a real burden.

445
00:29:54,328 --> 00:29:59,506
And, that kind of troubles me in general
with this program.

446
00:29:59,506 --> 00:30:04,947
I just spent several years as treasurer of
the water district,

447
00:30:04,947 --> 00:30:10,475
and in the sale of water among our towns.
You pay what you pay.

448
00:30:10,475 --> 00:30:16,618
There are not discounts for being elderly,
or having a limited income.

449
00:30:16,618 --> 00:30:20,129
And, it's like that with most utilities.

450
00:30:20,129 --> 00:30:26,009
And, I think that's probably the more fair
way for us to do things,

451
00:30:26,009 --> 00:30:32,152
and perhaps look for savings elsewhere
within our wastewater treatment

452
00:30:32,152 --> 00:30:33,117
within our wastewater treatment
operations.

453
00:30:33,117 --> 00:30:35,026
Other thoughts from council?

454
00:30:35,026 --> 00:30:40,480
When we, when we looked at this in 2014,
we put a committee together and we had,

455
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,320
remember, the city manager,

456
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:46,888
someone that had a young family that used
a lot of sewer and water,

457
00:30:46,888 --> 00:30:51,729
with someone that was retired, and I think
we had a city councilor too,

458
00:30:51,729 --> 00:30:57,387
and they really went through the issues I
think we need to get some people in whose

459
00:30:57,387 --> 00:31:00,318
shoes to try and talk through
specifically.

460
00:31:00,318 --> 00:31:05,841
This is always an awkward setting to have
a good discussion because we have to go

461
00:31:05,841 --> 00:31:10,749
through the chair. So I don't know if
anybody would be amenable to that.

462
00:31:10,749 --> 00:31:15,930
I just have a good mix of people that
would be impacted in different ways to

463
00:31:15,930 --> 00:31:16,408
would be impacted in different ways to
look at

464
00:31:16,408 --> 00:31:21,112
this. That makes sense. We appreciate all
of this. I think it's time.

465
00:31:21,112 --> 00:31:25,818
It's absolutely time to be looking at
this.

466
00:31:28,818 --> 00:31:31,066
May I ask a question?

467
00:31:31,066 --> 00:31:35,321
Uh, sure. You have to use the microphone,
please, Lisa.

468
00:31:35,321 --> 00:31:37,952
Hi, Lisa St. Hilaire, 63 River Ave.

469
00:31:37,952 --> 00:31:44,040
I'm just curious if there's about 1,500
accounts and on average 2-point-something

470
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:49,677
people per account, it's about 3,000
people. Population of Gardner is what,

471
00:31:49,677 --> 00:31:50,128
people. Population of Gardner is what,
6,500?

472
00:31:50,128 --> 00:31:53,210
So almost half the city's on the program.

473
00:31:53,210 --> 00:31:56,668
So that's my question, is half this, you
know,

474
00:31:56,668 --> 00:31:59,599
how much of the city is on the program?

475
00:31:59,599 --> 00:32:02,956
So the 2.26 number is the average in
Maine.

476
00:32:02,956 --> 00:32:04,757
Yeah, it's just, it's just a curiosity.

477
00:32:04,757 --> 00:32:07,574
It seemed like it seemed high when I
started doing that math,

478
00:32:07,574 --> 00:32:09,237
like half the city's on the program.

479
00:32:09,237 --> 00:32:12,017
We have a large number of households with
septic.

480
00:32:12,017 --> 00:32:14,102
Yeah, yeah, thank you.

481
00:32:14,102 --> 00:32:18,613
And by program, that's the number of
people who are In the sewer,

482
00:32:18,613 --> 00:32:23,331
use the sewer services, not the number of
people receiving benefits.

483
00:32:23,331 --> 00:32:28,883
We have about 20— I think it was 40 total
households currently who are receiving

484
00:32:28,883 --> 00:32:29,646
assistance.

485
00:32:29,646 --> 00:32:31,578
That makes more sense. Thank you.

486
00:32:33,867 --> 00:32:38,413
Any other thoughts? Councilor Greenleaf,
go ahead. Thank you, Mayor.

487
00:32:38,477 --> 00:32:43,401
I would certainly be in favor of a
committee looking at this and then maybe

488
00:32:43,401 --> 00:32:43,927
committee looking at this and then maybe
bringing

489
00:32:43,927 --> 00:32:49,245
recommendations to ORC with what they And
then ORC can look at the numbers and go

490
00:32:49,245 --> 00:32:49,967
from there.

491
00:32:49,967 --> 00:32:54,210
Yeah, in the past we skipped ORC just
because it was a numbers change,

492
00:32:54,210 --> 00:32:56,514
but we could certainly send it to ORC.

493
00:32:56,514 --> 00:32:59,676
I'm fine either way, but I do think it's
time we look at this.

494
00:32:59,676 --> 00:33:02,328
It's been 9 years and everything continues
to go up.

495
00:33:02,328 --> 00:33:04,776
I think it's time to at least take a look
at it.

496
00:33:04,776 --> 00:33:09,138
Denise, you left before we could say thank
you.

497
00:33:12,138 --> 00:33:16,641
I can reach out to council members
separately and see who might be interested

498
00:33:16,641 --> 00:33:16,758
separately and see who might be interested
in

499
00:33:16,758 --> 00:33:20,500
engaging, or I could reach out and just
organize a group myself.

500
00:33:20,500 --> 00:33:22,664
We could take care of the discussion.

501
00:33:22,664 --> 00:33:24,886
As a— someone who hopes to own a home,

502
00:33:24,886 --> 00:33:29,448
who has a family who uses a lot of water
every day, I appreciate the comments,

503
00:33:29,448 --> 00:33:33,541
of course. I think all of it does need to
be considered quite clearly.

504
00:33:33,541 --> 00:33:34,993
Thank you.

505
00:33:36,007 --> 00:33:37,220
Anybody else? No, we're good.

506
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:37,818
All right.

507
00:33:37,883 --> 00:33:44,993
Thanks, everybody. The next item on the
agenda is possible amendments to the land

508
00:33:44,993 --> 00:33:51,752
use ordinance to allow drive-through
establishments in the planned industrial

509
00:33:51,752 --> 00:33:56,492
commercial district to the Ordinance
Review Committee.

510
00:33:56,492 --> 00:33:59,827
So I thought I saw— oh, there you are.

511
00:33:59,827 --> 00:34:01,314
I thought I saw—

512
00:34:01,877 --> 00:34:03,963
We have our code enforcement officer here
tonight.

513
00:34:03,963 --> 00:34:07,051
Good evening, Council. Chris McNeil, code
enforcement.

514
00:34:07,051 --> 00:34:07,746
Good evening.

515
00:34:07,746 --> 00:34:10,259
So that title's slightly misleading.

516
00:34:10,259 --> 00:34:15,983
There was a request made of the city that
we allow restaurants with drive-throughs

517
00:34:15,983 --> 00:34:18,776
on a particular lot on Brunswick Avenue.

518
00:34:18,776 --> 00:34:22,964
Most of outer Brunswick Avenue is zoned
planned development,

519
00:34:22,964 --> 00:34:26,385
which does allow restaurants with
drive-throughs.

520
00:34:26,385 --> 00:34:30,085
The particular lot which recently hit the
market Yes.

521
00:34:30,085 --> 00:34:35,251
The lot in question is in an old
subdivision at the intersection of Market

522
00:34:35,251 --> 00:34:35,809
subdivision at the intersection of Market
Lane and

523
00:34:35,809 --> 00:34:41,394
Brunswick Ave. That particular lot was
zoned as part of the Market Lane Business

524
00:34:41,394 --> 00:34:45,652
Park. So, it was zoned PIC, which does not
allow restaurants.

525
00:34:45,652 --> 00:34:51,307
The potential buyer who made this request
is arguing that since the rest of Outer

526
00:34:51,307 --> 00:34:52,843
Brunswick allows them,

527
00:34:52,843 --> 00:34:57,939
can we change the zoning of this
particular lot to be Planned Development

528
00:34:57,939 --> 00:34:58,497
particular lot to be Planned Development
instead?

529
00:34:58,497 --> 00:35:00,452
Instead of PIC. Alternately,

530
00:35:00,452 --> 00:35:05,757
if you guys don't want to alter the zoning
and new zoning maps and all that,

531
00:35:05,757 --> 00:35:09,108
the other option is to, as the agenda item
says,

532
00:35:09,108 --> 00:35:14,553
allow restaurants with drive-throughs in
PIC. PIC's the business parks, pretty

533
00:35:14,553 --> 00:35:14,902
PIC. PIC's the business parks, pretty
much.

534
00:35:14,902 --> 00:35:18,812
Either way would, would, would work to
make this change,

535
00:35:18,812 --> 00:35:21,534
just different methods of achieving it.

536
00:35:21,534 --> 00:35:26,491
There aren't a lot of lots in PIC that are
currently still developable.

537
00:35:26,491 --> 00:35:29,702
A lot of them have been developed or sold,
or—

538
00:35:29,702 --> 00:35:35,077
so making a change in uses to that zone is
not going to have that large of an

539
00:35:35,077 --> 00:35:35,566
impact.

540
00:35:35,566 --> 00:35:41,392
Thank you. Questions from council? Anybody
want to make a motion?

541
00:35:41,392 --> 00:35:47,667
Motion to send it to ORC, or we do our
vigorous head nodding, I guess,

542
00:35:47,667 --> 00:35:52,776
for this. But there's a— there is a
proposed motion here.

543
00:35:52,776 --> 00:35:55,196
Councilor Cusick, go ahead.

544
00:35:55,196 --> 00:35:56,031
Thank you, Mayor. I move—

545
00:35:57,026 --> 00:36:03,972
I move to task the Ordinance Review
Committee to review a possible zone

546
00:36:03,972 --> 00:36:09,548
change for City Tax Map 011, Lot 039, 040,
041, 042, 043,

547
00:36:09,548 --> 00:36:11,798
and 044 from PIC to PD.

548
00:36:13,082 --> 00:36:17,643
Motion made by Councilor Cusick, seconded
by Councilor Cone.

549
00:36:17,643 --> 00:36:22,964
I just had a question. We don't usually
tell ORC which lots to rezone.

550
00:36:22,964 --> 00:36:25,245
We usually say work the issue.

551
00:36:25,245 --> 00:36:25,822
Yep.

552
00:36:25,822 --> 00:36:29,722
Um, would anybody— and we don't usually
vote on this.

553
00:36:29,722 --> 00:36:33,402
We usually just say send it, send the
issue along.

554
00:36:33,402 --> 00:36:38,700
Um, are people okay if we— Councilor
Cusick, I know you made the motion,

555
00:36:38,700 --> 00:36:44,367
but can we Would you mind if we undid
listing the lots? It's really specific.

556
00:36:44,367 --> 00:36:45,930
There's a—

557
00:36:45,930 --> 00:36:49,931
just, we want to go through, but do we
need a certain section?

558
00:36:49,931 --> 00:36:54,126
I mean, so what are we sending to
ordinance review for? Just one?

559
00:36:54,126 --> 00:36:59,160
I mean, there's specific lots here, but
are they going to know what if we did—

560
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:00,773
what are we sending them?

561
00:37:00,773 --> 00:37:03,456
ORC will know what the discussion is.

562
00:37:03,456 --> 00:37:05,487
A broader Directive for ORC,

563
00:37:05,487 --> 00:37:10,998
something along the lines of to examine
the zoning around that intersection,

564
00:37:10,998 --> 00:37:12,666
maybe more appropriate.

565
00:37:12,666 --> 00:37:18,845
To review the zoning around the Market
Street and

566
00:37:18,845 --> 00:37:25,150
Brunswick Avenue section of 201. How's
that? Okay.

567
00:37:25,150 --> 00:37:28,692
That gives them more leeway to do their
work. Thank you.

568
00:37:28,692 --> 00:37:32,360
Councillor Colley-Urquhart. Are you good
with that change?

569
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,004
All right, any discussion?

570
00:37:35,389 --> 00:37:35,582
Nope.

571
00:37:36,113 --> 00:37:39,996
All in favor, please record a unanimous
vote. Thank you very much.

572
00:37:39,996 --> 00:37:40,884
Thanks, Chris.

573
00:37:40,884 --> 00:37:44,276
The next item on the agenda is,

574
00:37:44,276 --> 00:37:49,857
is a request for and reappropriation of
the FY 2026

575
00:37:49,857 --> 00:37:52,921
funds. So City Manager Hill.

576
00:37:55,750 --> 00:37:57,590
Thank you. Yeah, thank you.

577
00:37:57,590 --> 00:38:03,178
So in FY26, there had been a decision on
the Public Works operating budget to move

578
00:38:03,178 --> 00:38:08,425
$50,000 from what had been proposed for
paving into a special revenue account

579
00:38:08,425 --> 00:38:11,491
restricted to the Arcade parking lot
project.

580
00:38:11,491 --> 00:38:16,670
That $50,000 was not spent in FY26 and
remains on the So at the last council

581
00:38:16,670 --> 00:38:20,282
meeting, we discussed the Arcade parking
lot project,

582
00:38:20,282 --> 00:38:25,189
and we noted that across all accounts,
including TIFs and other budgets,

583
00:38:25,189 --> 00:38:30,231
there's approximately $1.4 million
potentially earmarked for that or other

584
00:38:30,231 --> 00:38:30,845
potentially earmarked for that or other
projects,

585
00:38:30,845 --> 00:38:36,296
which means this $50,000 that we have in
the special revenue account marked only

586
00:38:36,296 --> 00:38:36,501
the special revenue account marked only
for

587
00:38:36,501 --> 00:38:41,271
the Arcade parking lot is— Is dwarfed by—
The rest of the funds there.

588
00:38:41,271 --> 00:38:45,564
But since that funds— since the funds were
not spent last year,

589
00:38:45,564 --> 00:38:50,811
what we'd like to do is have those
reappropriated to the current Public Works

590
00:38:50,811 --> 00:38:56,331
operating budget to be spent to handle
making the Arcade parking lot suitable for

591
00:38:56,331 --> 00:38:57,694
plowing this winter,

592
00:38:57,694 --> 00:39:03,213
as well as a few other existing projects
in the city that we could tack on to the

593
00:39:03,213 --> 00:39:05,803
current paving work that's being done.

594
00:39:05,803 --> 00:39:10,505
We're looking at a few outstanding paving
projects, sidewalk project,

595
00:39:10,505 --> 00:39:15,888
and a few other areas in the city that
have high traffic and outstanding needs.

596
00:39:15,888 --> 00:39:21,408
And Public Works Director John Cameron has
worked with our contractors to look at

597
00:39:21,408 --> 00:39:26,860
potential costs. So it's basically we're
asking to unlock $50,000 that's sitting

598
00:39:26,860 --> 00:39:29,858
there that will not create a new tax
burden,

599
00:39:29,858 --> 00:39:35,310
but could be spent immediately because we
have capacity to handle a few projects

600
00:39:35,310 --> 00:39:37,422
that the community's asked for.

601
00:39:37,422 --> 00:39:37,733
Thank you.

602
00:39:38,934 --> 00:39:39,706
All right, welcome.

603
00:39:39,706 --> 00:39:42,804
Hello, Public Works Director John Cameron.

604
00:39:42,804 --> 00:39:48,335
Um, yeah, we definitely have a few
projects that we'd like to take care of.

605
00:39:48,335 --> 00:39:54,162
Um, and this money would just go to those
that we've already kind of earmarked.

606
00:39:54,162 --> 00:39:55,785
We'd like to get them,

607
00:39:55,785 --> 00:40:00,947
and I talked to the contractor that we had
doing our paving this year,

608
00:40:00,947 --> 00:40:03,971
and that money would cover said projects,

609
00:40:03,971 --> 00:40:09,946
and he was Actually contacted me earlier
today and asked me how things were going

610
00:40:09,946 --> 00:40:16,067
and looking because he could possibly get
here as early as Friday to get started on

611
00:40:16,067 --> 00:40:20,345
a couple. An opening in the schedule could
be our benefit.

612
00:40:20,345 --> 00:40:25,322
Great, thank you. Questions from council?
Councillor Holmes.

613
00:40:25,322 --> 00:40:29,914
John, what, what will we do down at the
arcade parking lot?

614
00:40:30,959 --> 00:40:35,309
The arcade parking lot, to make it
plowable for this year, is basically a

615
00:40:35,309 --> 00:40:35,845
plowable for this year, is basically a
Band-Aid.

616
00:40:35,845 --> 00:40:36,679
Um, right now—

617
00:40:36,679 --> 00:40:38,334
Anything beyond filling potholes?

618
00:40:38,334 --> 00:40:43,899
A little bit more than filling potholes up
along the edge of the back of the

619
00:40:43,899 --> 00:40:48,805
buildings where there's actually some— I
wouldn't call it a puddle,

620
00:40:48,805 --> 00:40:51,368
it's more of craters at this point,

621
00:40:51,368 --> 00:40:55,029
because those last year were beating up
the plows.

622
00:40:55,029 --> 00:41:00,814
pretty bad and trying to make sure we
didn't move the manhole basins when we're

623
00:41:00,814 --> 00:41:02,938
trying to plow it down there.

624
00:41:02,938 --> 00:41:08,942
This will make it so we can protect our
equipment and plow that area and keep it a

625
00:41:08,942 --> 00:41:13,482
lot less ice down there this year. It
would help tremendously.

626
00:41:13,482 --> 00:41:16,472
Anybody else? Questions? No?

627
00:41:16,472 --> 00:41:22,346
All righty, so our action here is To— we
have a motion.

628
00:41:22,346 --> 00:41:26,831
The motion, uh, Councilor Babcock, please.

629
00:41:26,831 --> 00:41:32,229
I move to approve transfer and
reappropriation of $50,000 from the FY

630
00:41:32,229 --> 00:41:33,089
reappropriation of $50,000 from the FY
2026 Arcade

631
00:41:33,089 --> 00:41:39,269
Parking Lot Special Revenue Account to the
FY 27 Public Works Operating Budget.

632
00:41:39,269 --> 00:41:44,220
Motion made by Councilor Babcock, seconded
by Councilor Kimball.

633
00:41:44,220 --> 00:41:49,402
Any discussion? Nope. All in favor? Please
record a unanimous vote.

634
00:41:49,402 --> 00:41:50,176
Thank you.

635
00:41:50,176 --> 00:41:50,764
Thank you.

636
00:41:50,764 --> 00:41:51,809
Thank you, John.

637
00:41:51,809 --> 00:41:54,879
All right, the next item—

638
00:41:54,879 --> 00:42:02,125
the next item on the agenda is
establishing an EMS regional

639
00:42:02,125 --> 00:42:06,423
cost share analysis advisory group.

640
00:42:06,423 --> 00:42:12,609
Thank you. Yeah, this one is specifically
from me in discussion with Our partners on

641
00:42:12,609 --> 00:42:14,376
the ambulance committee,

642
00:42:14,376 --> 00:42:19,089
several councilors who are engaged with
the ambulance committee,

643
00:42:19,089 --> 00:42:21,888
interested in the ambulance committee.

644
00:42:21,888 --> 00:42:27,853
I would like to form a short-term task
force to examine the current structure and

645
00:42:27,853 --> 00:42:31,167
costing arrangement of the ambulance
service,

646
00:42:31,167 --> 00:42:36,027
which serves all the regional communities
that we're engaged with.

647
00:42:36,027 --> 00:42:37,994
Thank you.

648
00:42:38,096 --> 00:42:42,111
I know Councillor Greenleaf is currently
on the ambulance committee.

649
00:42:42,111 --> 00:42:45,713
They're well aware of the partners and the
discussions there.

650
00:42:45,713 --> 00:42:50,496
But the idea really is to pull together a
group of people who can help me analyze

651
00:42:50,496 --> 00:42:55,456
exactly where we want to go and how we can
keep the ambulance service solvent in the

652
00:42:55,456 --> 00:43:00,416
future, but also ensure that partner towns
are carrying a fair share of the cost and

653
00:43:00,416 --> 00:43:03,959
Gardiner's not liable for more than it
should be liable for.

654
00:43:03,959 --> 00:43:04,055
Okay.

655
00:43:04,312 --> 00:43:09,880
And just looking at the future with the
chiefs and with political leadership and

656
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:15,518
with city staff saying, this is where we
want to take this huge regional project.

657
00:43:15,518 --> 00:43:19,068
And I've now been city manager for almost
3 months.

658
00:43:19,068 --> 00:43:19,582
Woo!

659
00:43:19,582 --> 00:43:24,149
And I think in that period, looking at the
ambulance service in particular,

660
00:43:24,149 --> 00:43:28,656
what I realized is our ambulance service
out of here serves 25,000 people.

661
00:43:28,656 --> 00:43:33,405
people across 200 square miles as one of
the largest emergency services in the

662
00:43:33,405 --> 00:43:38,460
state. And so I think having a real strong
idea of where Gardner wants to go before

663
00:43:38,460 --> 00:43:40,226
we hit the next budget cycle,

664
00:43:40,226 --> 00:43:45,097
so then we can start working with partner
towns to ensure everyone's on the same

665
00:43:45,097 --> 00:43:49,726
page and we reach, you know, strong
agreements for the future, I think is a,

666
00:43:49,726 --> 00:43:53,867
is a critical thing to do. And right now
is the right time to do it.

667
00:43:53,867 --> 00:43:58,799
So I'm proposing a temporary task It's a
task force that will have 3 or 4 council

668
00:43:58,799 --> 00:44:03,549
members on it, so it would have to be a
publicly noticed meeting and committee

669
00:44:03,549 --> 00:44:03,793
publicly noticed meeting and committee
kind

670
00:44:03,793 --> 00:44:08,116
of task force. So, yeah, I need your
permission and authority to do so.

671
00:44:08,116 --> 00:44:11,100
The group will not be authorized to expend
funds.

672
00:44:11,100 --> 00:44:14,510
It will not be authorized to make changes
to structures.

673
00:44:14,510 --> 00:44:18,529
We do have the ambulance committee,
obviously, which is appointed,

674
00:44:18,529 --> 00:44:23,401
so I think it would be more the advisory
committee to help look at the future of

675
00:44:23,401 --> 00:44:26,994
where we're going with things from the
Gardner perspective.

676
00:44:26,994 --> 00:44:29,905
Thank you.

677
00:44:30,552 --> 00:44:33,105
Questions from council? Councilor
Greenleaf, go ahead.

678
00:44:33,105 --> 00:44:35,150
Thank you, Mayor. Not a question, but a
comment.

679
00:44:35,150 --> 00:44:37,280
Having served on that board for a number
of years,

680
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,367
this isn't something that just came from
Gardner.

681
00:44:39,367 --> 00:44:41,284
At our last ambulance advisory board
meeting,

682
00:44:41,284 --> 00:44:43,797
the partner towns that we have that make
this service work—

683
00:44:43,797 --> 00:44:46,694
because we could not do it without them—
are all on board with this.

684
00:44:46,694 --> 00:44:48,739
They realize the cost of everything has
gone up.

685
00:44:48,739 --> 00:44:50,187
They appreciate the service we do,

686
00:44:50,187 --> 00:44:53,126
and they're willing to look at this and
see if they need to pay more.

687
00:44:53,126 --> 00:44:54,788
They're willing to step up and do that.

688
00:44:54,788 --> 00:44:57,045
I'm not saying they're going to fund the
whole thing,

689
00:44:57,045 --> 00:45:00,453
but they are willing to look at this and
want us to do so to try to balance this

690
00:45:00,453 --> 00:45:00,581
want us to do so to try to balance this
out

691
00:45:00,581 --> 00:45:02,796
for everybody so we can provide the
services needed.

692
00:45:02,796 --> 00:45:04,457
So this isn't coming just from Gardner.

693
00:45:04,457 --> 00:45:07,269
This is the 7 other communities that are
in favor of this as well.

694
00:45:07,269 --> 00:45:09,741
Thank you. Anybody else?

695
00:45:10,978 --> 00:45:11,074
No.

696
00:45:11,395 --> 00:45:18,848
Anybody prepared to make the motion?
Councilor Dolley.

697
00:45:18,848 --> 00:45:25,242
I think my iPad just went dead, so—

698
00:45:25,242 --> 00:45:32,606
I moved to have the city manager establish
EMS regional cost share analysis and

699
00:45:32,606 --> 00:45:40,063
advisory group in accordance with the
discussed scope of work for December 31st,

700
00:45:40,063 --> 00:45:40,995
Thank you.

701
00:45:41,060 --> 00:45:45,948
Motion made by Councilor Dolley, seconded
by Councilor Cohn.

702
00:45:45,948 --> 00:45:50,918
Any discussion? All in favor, please
record a unanimous vote.

703
00:45:50,918 --> 00:45:51,949
Thank you.

704
00:45:51,949 --> 00:45:57,547
Thank you. That's a big task ahead to look
at all that.

705
00:45:57,547 --> 00:46:04,977
Okay, so our next item that we added at
the beginning of the meeting is a

706
00:46:04,977 --> 00:46:11,898
discussion on BOE Hunting in high-density
residential neighborhoods.

707
00:46:11,898 --> 00:46:15,810
As long as you use the microphone.

708
00:46:18,810 --> 00:46:19,084
Welcome.

709
00:46:19,084 --> 00:46:23,836
Good evening, Council. My name is Lisa St.
Hilaire. I live at 63 River Ave.

710
00:46:23,836 --> 00:46:26,878
I'm here tonight with my neighbor Helen
Stevens.

711
00:46:26,878 --> 00:46:29,949
Helen Stevens, 128 Dresden Avenue.

712
00:46:30,784 --> 00:46:36,355
Recently, several neighbors on Dresden Ave
were approached by a bow hunter seeking

713
00:46:36,355 --> 00:46:38,596
permission to hunt on their land,

714
00:46:38,596 --> 00:46:43,691
and that's these woods up here between
Dresden River Cottage and Kingsbury.

715
00:46:43,691 --> 00:46:48,719
Um, it's our strong belief that based on
city code and state hunting laws,

716
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:52,795
that hunting of any sort, including
archery and bow hunting,

717
00:46:52,795 --> 00:46:56,939
shouldn't be allowed here. I've got quite
a long letter here.

718
00:46:56,939 --> 00:46:59,588
I'll just go through it pretty quickly.

719
00:46:59,588 --> 00:47:05,294
Currently, the land use ordinance defines
hunting as a passive recreational activity

720
00:47:05,294 --> 00:47:07,808
allowed in all zones within the city,

721
00:47:07,808 --> 00:47:13,447
and we come to you this evening to request
that hunting, including archery hunting,

722
00:47:13,447 --> 00:47:15,620
is not allowed in certain zones,

723
00:47:15,620 --> 00:47:19,357
particularly places like HDR that are
highly populated.

724
00:47:19,357 --> 00:47:24,656
This could easily be accomplished by
adding a note to the use chart in Chapter

725
00:47:24,656 --> 00:47:24,927
adding a note to the use chart in Chapter
7 of

726
00:47:24,927 --> 00:47:29,003
the land use ordinance under Rural uses,
passive recreation.

727
00:47:29,003 --> 00:47:33,827
And of note, I sit on the land use
ordinance and the land use ordinance

728
00:47:33,827 --> 00:47:34,234
ordinance and the land use ordinance
board—

729
00:47:34,234 --> 00:47:39,262
what are we, land use ordinance committee—
and the ordinance review board.

730
00:47:39,262 --> 00:47:42,658
Gardner City Code has some discussion of
firearms,

731
00:47:42,658 --> 00:47:47,549
but this doesn't include bows or
crossbows, but slingshots are included.

732
00:47:47,549 --> 00:47:51,829
And so that's kind of a— Should bows and
crossbows be included?

733
00:47:51,829 --> 00:47:57,196
Um, the city code also defines areas
within which firearms may be discharged or

734
00:47:57,196 --> 00:47:57,400
within which firearms may be discharged or
may

735
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:01,204
not be discharged. Mostly, I think that's
South Gardner.

736
00:48:01,204 --> 00:48:06,639
It was a little hard to understand the
boundaries listed in the city code there.

737
00:48:06,639 --> 00:48:10,579
But discharge of firearms outside of this
restricted area,

738
00:48:10,579 --> 00:48:12,821
which might be the area we're in,

739
00:48:12,821 --> 00:48:18,392
indicates that a dated and signed written
permission is necessary to discharge any

740
00:48:18,392 --> 00:48:23,419
firearms. on another person's property,
and that has to be updated yearly.

741
00:48:23,419 --> 00:48:28,446
Firearms may not be discharged within 400
feet of a dwelling or structure,

742
00:48:28,446 --> 00:48:34,084
nor may a projectile from a firearm pass
within 400 feet of a dwelling or structure

743
00:48:34,084 --> 00:48:38,976
on somebody else's property, and that
distance is increased for schools.

744
00:48:38,976 --> 00:48:44,614
State rules from the Inland Fisheries and
Wildlife Department for archery equipment

745
00:48:44,614 --> 00:48:49,030
near dwellings and buildings state 100
yards, so that's 300 feet.

746
00:48:49,030 --> 00:48:52,291
It's a little less than the cities for
firearms.

747
00:48:52,291 --> 00:48:56,978
What's interesting statewide is that in
the 2023 legislative session,

748
00:48:56,978 --> 00:48:59,152
I think that it changed in 2024,

749
00:48:59,152 --> 00:49:03,975
is that you don't get a bow hunting
license anymore. You get an archery

750
00:49:03,975 --> 00:49:04,519
license anymore. You get an archery
license.

751
00:49:04,519 --> 00:49:07,508
And that archery license includes
crossbows.

752
00:49:07,508 --> 00:49:12,603
So somebody could be bow hunting on your
land, and that could be crossbows.

753
00:49:12,603 --> 00:49:18,173
Um, and we think that the flight distances
and velocities for arrows and bolts out

754
00:49:18,173 --> 00:49:23,540
of these crossbows is incompatible with an
area zoned high-density residential.

755
00:49:23,540 --> 00:49:28,092
Typically, people hunt for deer with a 50
to 70-pound compound bow,

756
00:49:28,092 --> 00:49:30,062
a 45 to 50-pound recurve bow,

757
00:49:30,062 --> 00:49:35,497
and state rules indicate that the minimum
crossbow hunting weight is 100 pounds.

758
00:49:35,497 --> 00:49:41,067
And then there's a whole lot of specifics
here that I'm not going to read out loud

759
00:49:41,067 --> 00:49:45,687
regarding velocities and distances that
arrows and bolts can travel,

760
00:49:45,687 --> 00:49:51,257
but they can travel up to 1,200 feet and
at a velocity of up to 270 miles an hour,

761
00:49:51,257 --> 00:49:55,333
which is higher than the projectiles fired
from a slingshot.

762
00:49:55,333 --> 00:49:58,866
Though bow hunters are typically careful,
they miss.

763
00:49:58,866 --> 00:50:03,485
And a hunter in these woods could
inadvertently shoot something into

764
00:50:03,485 --> 00:50:04,165
inadvertently shoot something into
somebody's

765
00:50:04,165 --> 00:50:08,173
yard, hit somebody, hit the house, hit a
person, hit a pet.

766
00:50:08,173 --> 00:50:13,268
And we also believe it's important to
consider that deer struck by an arrow

767
00:50:13,268 --> 00:50:16,461
typically travel some distance before they
die.

768
00:50:16,461 --> 00:50:21,692
The distance a deer travels after being
hit will depend— how big is the deer,

769
00:50:21,692 --> 00:50:25,700
how much terrain, how much adrenaline, all
of these things—

770
00:50:25,700 --> 00:50:31,338
but it's quite likely that that deer could
travel from a place where permission was

771
00:50:31,338 --> 00:50:34,327
granted to hunt to a place where it was
not.

772
00:50:34,327 --> 00:50:39,694
And if that wounded deer travels to a
place where it was not granted permission

773
00:50:39,694 --> 00:50:39,898
place where it was not granted permission
for

774
00:50:39,898 --> 00:50:44,993
the hunter to be, That hunter is not
allowed by state law to come onto that

775
00:50:44,993 --> 00:50:45,469
allowed by state law to come onto that
land to

776
00:50:45,469 --> 00:50:47,099
get that wounded animal.

777
00:50:47,099 --> 00:50:52,126
So it's quite possible a wounded deer
could end up in somebody's backyard.

778
00:50:52,126 --> 00:50:57,425
And there's some specifics here about how,
you know, if you hit a double lung,

779
00:50:57,425 --> 00:51:02,588
how fast they drop, you know, how many
feet do they travel. But they tend to

780
00:51:02,588 --> 00:51:03,064
feet do they travel. But they tend to
travel.

781
00:51:03,064 --> 00:51:04,694
They don't tend to drop.

782
00:51:04,694 --> 00:51:06,264
Okay.

783
00:51:08,437 --> 00:51:13,416
And I don't think any of us want a wounded
and dying animal to show up in their

784
00:51:13,416 --> 00:51:17,827
backyard. This whole area, these woods
back here, it's about 30 acres.

785
00:51:17,827 --> 00:51:20,537
Helen and my property about cut it in
half.

786
00:51:20,537 --> 00:51:22,742
To the south of us is the hospital,

787
00:51:22,742 --> 00:51:25,830
has a large property around the
Alzheimer's unit.

788
00:51:25,830 --> 00:51:29,990
And to the north of us, one person has
granted hunters permission.

789
00:51:29,990 --> 00:51:33,582
It's this lot up here in the corner. But
nobody else has.

790
00:51:33,582 --> 00:51:38,686
And Chief Seabold knows that people have
been posting their land recently because

791
00:51:38,686 --> 00:51:41,900
there was a fire out in those woods, um,
on Lot 10.

792
00:51:41,900 --> 00:51:43,413
It's Susan Prew's place,

793
00:51:43,413 --> 00:51:47,887
and she got hot to trot and got all the
neighbors to post their land no

794
00:51:47,887 --> 00:51:48,643
neighbors to post their land no
trespassing.

795
00:51:48,643 --> 00:51:52,361
So a hunter will have to ask them
permission to hunt there.

796
00:51:52,361 --> 00:51:57,277
So it just, it just speaks to the larger
issue that this is HDR, high density.

797
00:51:57,277 --> 00:52:02,193
Should you allow hunting? Should you allow
bow hunting? It's not anti-hunting.

798
00:52:02,193 --> 00:52:06,478
It's not that we shouldn't allow hunting
in rural areas of the city.

799
00:52:06,478 --> 00:52:09,062
And it's not to say that you can't, like,

800
00:52:09,062 --> 00:52:14,292
have an archery butt in your backyard and
do target practice. That's your property.

801
00:52:14,292 --> 00:52:15,868
You can do what you want.

802
00:52:15,868 --> 00:52:21,161
But you're hunting an animal that's going
to travel across your property boundaries.

803
00:52:21,161 --> 00:52:26,266
You're using projectiles that are going to
travel across the property boundaries.

804
00:52:26,266 --> 00:52:28,535
And they're kind of tight back here.

805
00:52:28,535 --> 00:52:33,198
Um, We have big lots because it's an
unbuildable area of ravines, gullies,

806
00:52:33,198 --> 00:52:33,702
unbuildable area of ravines, gullies,
streams.

807
00:52:33,702 --> 00:52:36,853
I don't know what's going on over here or
up here,

808
00:52:36,853 --> 00:52:39,122
but I suspect that's the same thing.

809
00:52:39,122 --> 00:52:43,848
So I just think it's something that the
council should consider allowing or

810
00:52:43,848 --> 00:52:49,142
disallowing hunting of any sort, including
archery, in HDR and possibly other zones.

811
00:52:49,142 --> 00:52:54,246
You know, you certainly wouldn't allow it
in traditional downtown or any of those

812
00:52:54,246 --> 00:52:55,885
kinds of places. Anything?

813
00:52:57,199 --> 00:53:02,455
It— when you look at this area, these
lines don't exist.

814
00:53:02,455 --> 00:53:07,336
When you look at this area, it is all open
woodland.

815
00:53:07,336 --> 00:53:14,563
It is bisected by streams, very steep
gullies, which is why it's unbuildable,

816
00:53:14,563 --> 00:53:20,382
it's undevelopable. But people look at
that and go, oh my God,

817
00:53:20,382 --> 00:53:25,638
this is so beautiful. It's all open
woodland. And it is.

818
00:53:25,638 --> 00:53:29,393
But the reality is— this is the reality.

819
00:53:29,393 --> 00:53:33,522
It is a patchwork quilt of private
property.

820
00:53:33,522 --> 00:53:38,309
And anybody knows when you hit an animal,
you know,

821
00:53:38,309 --> 00:53:41,970
maybe in the movies it falls over dead.

822
00:53:41,970 --> 00:53:46,475
But in reality, it does not just fall over
dead.

823
00:53:46,475 --> 00:53:53,139
Nobody in that area owns enough property
to give permission to hunt in,

824
00:53:53,139 --> 00:53:57,738
in that area, um, safely. And that's the
reality.

825
00:53:57,738 --> 00:54:02,900
One of Lisa's neighbors, uh, I think said
it very well.

826
00:54:02,900 --> 00:54:10,315
He said he's a hunter, but he would never
hunt in there because it's too tight.

827
00:54:10,315 --> 00:54:16,040
And then he might have to kill a deer in
somebody's backyard.

828
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:20,358
And that's another whole problem to deal
with.

829
00:54:20,358 --> 00:54:24,673
And the other thing is bow hunters, or
archery hunters, as the state now calls

830
00:54:24,673 --> 00:54:24,950
archery hunters, as the state now calls
them,

831
00:54:24,950 --> 00:54:26,664
are allowed to carry a sidearm,

832
00:54:26,664 --> 00:54:30,648
but they're not allowed to use the sidearm
to dispatch a wounded animal.

833
00:54:30,648 --> 00:54:32,971
So you have to wait for the animal to die.

834
00:54:32,971 --> 00:54:37,591
So your recommendation is that we send it
to the Ordinance Review Committee

835
00:54:37,591 --> 00:54:42,088
to take a look at the city ordinance,
match it up with the Yep, yep, yep.

836
00:54:42,410 --> 00:54:45,762
And I know we have some more immediate
things that we're going to do.

837
00:54:45,762 --> 00:54:48,822
We're going to post our land and talk to
some of the neighbors.

838
00:54:48,822 --> 00:54:52,708
And I think the chief of police might talk
to the person who granted permission,

839
00:54:52,708 --> 00:54:55,914
because as Helen noted, when you're back
in there, you can't tell.

840
00:54:55,914 --> 00:54:57,517
I know where my property line is,

841
00:54:57,517 --> 00:55:01,014
but the property line kind of angles off
at a weird southerly direction,

842
00:55:01,014 --> 00:55:03,734
but the ridges all go at this weird
northerly direction.

843
00:55:03,734 --> 00:55:07,426
And it's very confusing whose property
you're on once you get back in there.

844
00:55:07,426 --> 00:55:11,263
And I can't imagine that somebody who
doesn't know those woods would know whose

845
00:55:11,263 --> 00:55:12,332
property they were on.

846
00:55:12,332 --> 00:55:15,345
And bow hunting starts Saturday.

847
00:55:15,924 --> 00:55:18,146
Yeah, that's—

848
00:55:18,243 --> 00:55:22,045
it really is for us. It's a public safety
issue.

849
00:55:22,045 --> 00:55:28,066
We really do not want anyone back there
bow hunting with a compound bow or a

850
00:55:28,066 --> 00:55:30,046
crossbow, for God's sake.

851
00:55:30,046 --> 00:55:32,504
So on that issue, City Manager Hill,

852
00:55:32,504 --> 00:55:36,670
I think Chief Pillsbury worked with the
folks involved today.

853
00:55:36,670 --> 00:55:39,811
So that's taken care of for Saturday,
correct?

854
00:55:39,811 --> 00:55:45,342
But so what we can do tonight is see if we
get some vigorous head nodding to send

855
00:55:45,342 --> 00:55:45,683
this.

856
00:55:45,683 --> 00:55:50,875
Yeah. And I don't know if firearms need to
be redefined in the land use ordinance to

857
00:55:50,875 --> 00:55:55,635
include archery equipment or not. I mean,
should firearms include slingshots?

858
00:55:55,635 --> 00:55:58,664
You know, as somebody who lives in a
biggish lot,

859
00:55:58,664 --> 00:56:03,733
I'm a little peeved I can't shoot my .22
to kill the woodchucks that are bothering

860
00:56:03,733 --> 00:56:05,834
me. But I'm not allowed to, right?

861
00:56:05,834 --> 00:56:09,049
So should, should archery equipment be in
there too?

862
00:56:09,049 --> 00:56:12,572
Thoughts, thoughts for you guys. Thank you
for your time.

863
00:56:12,572 --> 00:56:13,668
Yeah, thank you.

864
00:56:15,377 --> 00:56:19,193
Thank you so much for adding us in at the
last moment for the agenda.

865
00:56:19,193 --> 00:56:20,520
Truly, we appreciate it.

866
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:23,657
Thanks for coming and for your
presentation.

867
00:56:23,657 --> 00:56:27,292
It, it certainly is a pressing public
safety issue.

868
00:56:27,292 --> 00:56:32,140
So for sending it to the Ordinance Review
Committee, any objections?

869
00:56:32,140 --> 00:56:33,637
No, everybody's good.

870
00:56:34,664 --> 00:56:34,825
Okay.

871
00:56:35,387 --> 00:56:35,563
All right.

872
00:56:35,563 --> 00:56:36,607
Can I ask a question?

873
00:56:36,607 --> 00:56:37,346
Yeah, go ahead.

874
00:56:37,346 --> 00:56:40,232
You folks have done some research.

875
00:56:40,232 --> 00:56:43,798
Are you saying that it is legal to hunt in

876
00:56:43,798 --> 00:56:45,920
high-density residential?

877
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:50,801
Currently, it is not legal to discharge a
firearm.

878
00:56:50,962 --> 00:56:51,347
Okay.

879
00:56:51,588 --> 00:56:54,494
But archery isn't included firearms.

880
00:56:54,574 --> 00:56:54,735
Gotcha.

881
00:56:54,799 --> 00:56:59,616
Currently legal for archery hunting to
take place in HDR.

882
00:56:59,889 --> 00:57:00,612
Okay.

883
00:57:00,692 --> 00:57:02,346
I was hearing you right then. Thank you.

884
00:57:02,779 --> 00:57:07,934
State law does allow with the permission
of the landowner and with stipulations on—

885
00:57:07,934 --> 00:57:13,222
Yeah, the caveats about within 100 feet,
100 yards of a residence.

886
00:57:13,222 --> 00:57:19,871
You can be within 100 yards of a residence
if that owner has given permission or an

887
00:57:19,871 --> 00:57:25,479
adult in the house has given permission,
according to the state rules.

888
00:57:25,479 --> 00:57:28,203
And the folks I talked to at IF&W—

889
00:57:28,203 --> 00:57:30,770
Discharge of a firearm?

890
00:57:30,770 --> 00:57:31,255
Correct.

891
00:57:31,255 --> 00:57:32,950
In our high-density residential?

892
00:57:32,950 --> 00:57:38,303
Correct. Oh, that's actually not clear.
It's not within 400 feet of a structure.

893
00:57:38,303 --> 00:57:41,448
So that, that's actually not clear to me.
Yeah.

894
00:57:41,448 --> 00:57:45,797
And the folks at IF&W told me I should
invite the game warden in.

895
00:57:45,797 --> 00:57:50,013
I'm like, yeah, I don't I think that needs
to happen right now.

896
00:57:50,013 --> 00:57:53,889
We will send it back to you and your
committee.

897
00:57:53,889 --> 00:57:54,421
Thank you.

898
00:57:54,421 --> 00:57:55,872
All right.

899
00:57:55,953 --> 00:57:57,896
So we are good with that.

900
00:57:57,896 --> 00:58:03,726
So the follow-up there is that will get
added to ORC's list. Thank you all.

901
00:58:03,726 --> 00:58:07,069
So I think that is all of our new
business.

902
00:58:07,069 --> 00:58:12,588
Before we get to the city manager's
report, I just want to say, Robert,

903
00:58:12,588 --> 00:58:16,552
this is a really special last city council
meeting.

904
00:58:16,552 --> 00:58:20,128
Sewer and deer and— and what else did we
have?

905
00:58:20,128 --> 00:58:24,248
Fire and liquor license, which we always
have, right?

906
00:58:24,376 --> 00:58:25,291
Perfect.

907
00:58:25,612 --> 00:58:26,415
So thank you.

908
00:58:27,780 --> 00:58:28,551
All fun stuff.

909
00:58:29,129 --> 00:58:31,393
All right, City Manager report.

910
00:58:31,393 --> 00:58:32,533
Thank you.

911
00:58:33,384 --> 00:58:38,252
I'll be brief today. I just wanted to
mention a few key moments upcoming.

912
00:58:38,252 --> 00:58:40,920
One is to welcome all the students back.

913
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:45,655
Schools did start this week, and I think
we have some teachers as well.

914
00:58:45,655 --> 00:58:47,122
Yeah, congratulations.

915
00:58:47,122 --> 00:58:52,458
And it's been really enjoyable to see my
own kids enroll in Garden Area schools.

916
00:58:52,458 --> 00:58:53,792
Really, really nice.

917
00:58:53,792 --> 00:58:57,660
We have, just so everyone does know, on
Wednesday the 9th,

918
00:58:57,660 --> 00:59:00,261
the water will be off on Church Street,

919
00:59:00,261 --> 00:59:03,328
so that will impact City Hall most of the
day.

920
00:59:03,328 --> 00:59:08,597
Hopefully it'll be back on by the time
City Hall opens at noon on Wednesday the

921
00:59:08,597 --> 00:59:08,864
City Hall opens at noon on Wednesday the
9th,

922
00:59:08,864 --> 00:59:11,798
but it will be off from Mechanic to
Dresden.

923
00:59:11,798 --> 00:59:14,733
We've been told by the water district
today.

924
00:59:14,733 --> 00:59:18,667
On the 12th of September, we're having a
library book sale.

925
00:59:18,667 --> 00:59:24,203
I encourage everyone to come and support.
It's from 9:00 AM to 2:00 PM on the 12th.

926
00:59:24,203 --> 00:59:25,670
And on September 15th,

927
00:59:25,670 --> 00:59:30,805
We will kick off the comprehensive
planning public event week at Johnson Hall

928
00:59:30,805 --> 00:59:30,939
planning public event week at Johnson Hall
at

929
00:59:30,939 --> 00:59:35,740
5:00 PM. Doors will open 5:30 for
community feedback engagement session,

930
00:59:35,740 --> 00:59:38,541
hopefully fun, good, enjoyable discussion.

931
00:59:38,541 --> 00:59:42,076
So I would encourage everyone to attend
that as well.

932
00:59:42,076 --> 00:59:44,544
And I've left some information there.

933
00:59:44,544 --> 00:59:48,078
But yeah, from my side, I just want to say
thank you.

934
00:59:48,078 --> 00:59:53,080
I think the coming few weeks will be quite
heavy with events across lots of

935
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:58,082
different things, and I've noticed
different organizations are all starting

936
00:59:58,082 --> 00:59:58,215
different organizations are all starting
to

937
00:59:58,215 --> 01:00:00,483
cross-schedule each other as well.

938
01:00:00,483 --> 01:00:03,817
So I think there's a lot going on in the
city, um,

939
01:00:03,817 --> 01:00:08,419
but a lot of really interesting
discussions and exciting things to be

940
01:00:08,419 --> 01:00:09,286
discussions and exciting things to be
engaged with.

941
01:00:09,479 --> 01:00:14,312
So thank you. Great, thank you. Councilor
updates, starting with Councilor Cone.

942
01:00:14,312 --> 01:00:18,246
I just want to thank the department heads
for all the work they've done.

943
01:00:18,663 --> 01:00:24,695
Great work for the city manager and I
appreciate the citizens bringing things

944
01:00:24,695 --> 01:00:25,165
appreciate the citizens bringing things
before

945
01:00:25,165 --> 01:00:26,340
us to consider.

946
01:00:26,340 --> 01:00:28,860
Thank you. Councilor Greenleaf.

947
01:00:28,860 --> 01:00:32,260
Thank you, Mayor. I just wanted to again
thank department heads, but also, um,

948
01:00:32,260 --> 01:00:34,308
thank Johnson Hall for the waterfront
concerts.

949
01:00:34,308 --> 01:00:37,795
We started with rain, we ended with rain,
but in between were some great nights,

950
01:00:37,795 --> 01:00:39,626
and it brought a lot of people to Gardner.

951
01:00:39,626 --> 01:00:42,807
And appreciate the fact they do that for
the citizens and for the ensuing

952
01:00:42,807 --> 01:00:44,420
communities, surrounding communities.

953
01:00:44,420 --> 01:00:47,520
Hear, hear. Councilor Cusick.

954
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:50,850
I just— quick shout out Shout out to
Public Works.

955
01:00:50,850 --> 01:00:56,245
Thanks for cleaning up some bushes on West
Street and paving in a couple driveway

956
01:00:56,245 --> 01:00:57,644
lips on Maple Street.

957
01:00:57,644 --> 01:01:02,772
Got a couple calls from the residents,
very appreciative for that. Thank you.

958
01:01:02,772 --> 01:01:03,771
I'll step down.

959
01:01:03,771 --> 01:01:05,437
All right, Councilor Kimball.

960
01:01:05,437 --> 01:01:06,559
Thank you.

961
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:10,089
Thank you for the department heads.

962
01:01:10,089 --> 01:01:15,994
And you've been here 3 months, that's
really a lot. Uh, and thank you to John.

963
01:01:15,994 --> 01:01:22,125
I, I need to speak to you about— I had a
person call about their street, and the,

964
01:01:22,125 --> 01:01:25,455
uh, John was so good to talk to me about
it.

965
01:01:25,455 --> 01:01:31,360
And I talked to the lady, and she was very
pleased but very disappointed also.

966
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:36,507
But there's only 2 people on that street
that has a problem with it.

967
01:01:36,507 --> 01:01:39,989
Everybody else doesn't know anything about
it.

968
01:01:39,989 --> 01:01:40,085
Okay.

969
01:01:40,150 --> 01:01:43,779
about it. So, but it's Dean Street.

970
01:01:43,779 --> 01:01:48,549
So, yep, but she was very kind and thanked
me,

971
01:01:48,549 --> 01:01:50,726
and John was helpful.

972
01:01:51,559 --> 01:01:54,139
That's it. Wonderful, thank you.
Councillor Babcock.

973
01:01:54,139 --> 01:01:58,953
I think it's a John night because I was
going to thank John as well because I had

974
01:01:58,953 --> 01:02:03,470
some residents concerned about paving
issues and speed on Washington Ave and

975
01:02:03,470 --> 01:02:05,847
Brunswick Ave and, you know, everywhere.

976
01:02:05,847 --> 01:02:10,423
So I just appreciate— I reached out to you
and city manager quite a bit last—

977
01:02:10,423 --> 01:02:14,108
this past month, so thank you for taking
care of those things.

978
01:02:14,108 --> 01:02:17,555
And it seems like everybody's happy, or
they met with you.

979
01:02:17,555 --> 01:02:19,932
I haven't heard otherwise, so thank you.

980
01:02:19,932 --> 01:02:23,720
Nothing to add.

981
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:26,506
All right, thank you. Councilor Holmes.

982
01:02:26,506 --> 01:02:28,896
And all is well in South Gardner,

983
01:02:28,896 --> 01:02:34,763
and I just feel guilty I have nothing to
compliment John And the rest of you too,

984
01:02:34,763 --> 01:02:38,240
really. We do appreciate you all. But
thank you.

985
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:41,548
Thank you. Uh, go ahead, Councilman.

986
01:02:41,548 --> 01:02:43,211
I do want to thank the fire department.

987
01:02:43,211 --> 01:02:45,769
They had a good stop on Pope Street, um, a
couple weeks ago,

988
01:02:45,769 --> 01:02:48,966
and we're fortunate that we have them here
to do that. So thank you, Chief.

989
01:02:48,966 --> 01:02:49,753
You're here.

990
01:02:50,042 --> 01:02:52,803
Yeah, I agree with that for sure.

991
01:02:52,803 --> 01:02:59,329
And in the woods, the fire in the woods
too, that was kind of scary for folks.

992
01:02:59,329 --> 01:03:05,269
So I would just echo what everybody said.
We love our paved street, Mr.

993
01:03:05,269 --> 01:03:08,700
Cameron, on High Holborn. It's beautiful.

994
01:03:08,700 --> 01:03:14,974
I keep thinking it's rained because the
street— when I look out the window,

995
01:03:14,974 --> 01:03:17,903
it's dark, but it's just beautiful.

996
01:03:17,903 --> 01:03:22,504
Councilors, I just want to ask real quick,
October 7th,

997
01:03:22,504 --> 01:03:26,604
we've got a couple councilors that can't
make it.

998
01:03:26,604 --> 01:03:33,381
Can everybody else make the meeting on
October 7th so we can sort that out. 3, 4.

999
01:03:33,527 --> 01:03:33,852
Okay.

1000
01:03:34,777 --> 01:03:36,756
Okay. And Councilor Holmes, you good?

1001
01:03:36,756 --> 01:03:38,012
Okay, great.

1002
01:03:38,077 --> 01:03:41,232
Thanks, everybody. And welcome back to
school.

1003
01:03:41,232 --> 01:03:44,387
I love the banner that says, you matter to
us.

1004
01:03:44,387 --> 01:03:48,296
I think that was Healthy Communities of
the Capital Area,

1005
01:03:48,296 --> 01:03:50,902
but I'm really appreciative that they,

1006
01:03:50,902 --> 01:03:54,537
that they did that for our school staff
and students,

1007
01:03:54,537 --> 01:04:00,161
and hopefully all the teachers everywhere
take heart in the positive messages from

1008
01:04:00,161 --> 01:04:04,619
the community. So with that, we have a
couple executive sessions,

1009
01:04:04,619 --> 01:04:09,969
and what we'll do is we'll clear the room
and we will take Executive Session B

1010
01:04:09,969 --> 01:04:12,507
first, if everybody's okay with that,

1011
01:04:12,507 --> 01:04:17,925
and then we'll take Executive We'll take
it to session A and we'll come out and

1012
01:04:17,925 --> 01:04:18,885
vote, I think.

1013
01:04:18,885 --> 01:04:20,269
Congratulations, Robert.

1014
01:04:20,269 --> 01:04:21,589
Congratulations.

1015
01:04:21,589 --> 01:04:22,169
Thank you, Robert.

1016
01:04:22,169 --> 01:04:26,135
We're not coming back on the camera,

1017
01:04:26,135 --> 01:04:32,306
but we will come out of session and we
will vote and the

1018
01:04:32,306 --> 01:04:35,611
minutes will reflect our vote.

1019
01:04:35,611 --> 01:04:35,999
Thank you.

1020
01:04:35,999 --> 01:04:37,260
The meeting minutes.

1021
01:04:40,260 --> 01:04:41,106
He'll do it.

1022
01:04:41,106 --> 01:04:42,147
I'll do it.

1023
01:04:42,147 --> 01:04:43,400
Yeah, thanks, Alyssa.

1024
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:44,344
I know they're here somewhere.