[0:10] Good evening and welcome everyone. My name
is Patricia Hart.
[0:13] I have the honor of serving as mayor and
it's my privilege to welcome you to a
[0:19] regular Gardner City Council meeting.
[0:21] Tonight is Wednesday, September 2nd in the
year 2026.
[0:24] We'll open the meeting with the roll call,
starting with Councilor Holmes, please.
[0:30] Hi there, Kendall Holmes from Riverview
Drive down in South Gardiner representing
[0:34] District 4.
[0:35] Hello and good evening.
[0:37] I'm Shawn Dolley, District 3, and I reside
on Lincoln Avenue.
[0:42] Good evening and welcome. I'm Veronica
Babcock.
[0:45] I live on West Street and represent
District 2.
[0:48] Good evening, everyone, and welcome. My
name is Debra Kimball.
[0:52] I live on Prairie Street and I represent
District 1.
[0:55] Uh, good evening and welcome.
[0:56] My name is Patricia Hart and I have the
honor of serving as mayor.
[0:59] Good evening everyone, my name is Tim
Cusick and I serve at large.
[1:02] Good evening and welcome, my name is
Russell Greenleaf,
[1:04] I live on Cobsey Avenue and I serve at
large.
[1:06] Hi, I'm Marc Cone, I live on Karen Drive
and I serve at large.
[1:11] I'm Thomas Hill, I'm city manager for
Gardner.
[1:13] Alissa Landis, deputy city clerk. Uh,
please join us in the Pledge of
[1:19] please join us in the Pledge of
Allegiance.
[1:19] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the
[1:25] United States of America and to the
republic
[1:26] for which it stands, one nation under God,
indivisible,
[1:30] with liberty and justice for all.
[1:32] All right, before we take our formal
public comment time,
[1:36] we did get correspondence over the last
today or so of a group of folks that want
[1:42] today or so of a group of folks that want
to
[1:42] talk about bow hunting in the high-density
residential neighborhoods.
[1:48] And so they, they want more time,
[1:50] they would like more time than the public
comment time.
[1:54] So I'm going to ask council if they'd be
willing to add a new business for H,
[2:00] I guess it would be,
[2:01] to talk about bow hunting and have them
share their thinking on that,
[2:07] their concerns. Everybody okay with that?
I see all Heads nodding. Yeah. Okay.
[2:12] All right. So we'll do that.
[2:15] So now we'll open up time for public
comment for anything that is not on the
[2:19] comment for anything that is not on the
agenda.
[2:19] Now that we've put that on the agenda,
[2:22] is there anyone here who would like to
speak on a matter that's not on the
[2:27] speak on a matter that's not on the
agenda?
[2:28] All right. City Manager Hill, did we get
any correspondence?
[2:32] We did not.
[2:33] Okay.
[2:34] All right.
[2:34] We'll close public hearing— time for
public comment, move on to public
[2:38] public comment, move on to public
hearings.
[2:39] We don't have any public hearings this
week, so we'll move on to new business.
[2:43] And our first item of new business is a
mayoral proclamation for Mr. Robert Abbey.
[2:48] So we'll invite Robert to come forward,
please.
[2:51] Where would
[2:55] you like me?
[3:03] To the front.
[3:04] I'll give you my seat.
[3:11] All right, so it is my honor to issue this
proclamation to thank you for your 15
[3:16] years of really remarkable service in the
city.
[3:20] I feel like we should have done this
sooner.
[3:23] I never like doing things when people are
on their way out, but, but It— you—
[3:29] it's well deserved, and we're really happy
to do it to celebrate you.
[3:34] All right, so I have a proclamation.
[3:36] Whereas Robert Abbey has long enriched the
city of Gardner as a devoted resident and
[3:42] tireless volunteer, and whereas for more
than 15 years Robert has generously shared
[3:48] his talents in service to communities
throughout Central Maine.
[3:53] And whereas Robert's exceptional community
service includes supporting neighbors
[3:59] through the local soup kitchen,
volunteering at the Maine State Museum,
[4:04] enriching the arts through participation
in the community band and Johnson Hall
[4:10] events, helping renovate Johnson Hall—
[4:13] I think it was the destruction part of the
renovation right there—
[4:17] caring for the Palmer Fountain, preserving
local history and the community archives.
[4:23] Thank you.
[4:24] Advancing downtown revitalization, park
improvements,
[4:28] and the beautification of public spaces,
and delighting local children.
[4:33] Whereas Robert has strengthened and
beautified the Gardner community through
[4:39] beautified the Gardner community through
his
[4:39] service as president of Gardner Main
Street,
[4:43] chair of the Streetscape Committee and
Gardner's Gardeners,
[4:47] chair of the Parks and Public Places
Committee,
[4:51] a member of the Tree Committee and
Historic Preservation Committee,
[4:56] An honorary member of the city's Buildings
and Grounds Department,
[5:01] orchestrator-in-chief of the Palmer
Fountain Restoration,
[5:05] conductor on the Polar Express, and a dear
friend of Santa Claus.
[5:10] Whereas Robert's devotion to the greater
Gardner area extends beyond the formal
[5:16] service to the everyday acts of care that
strengthen the community—
[5:21] watering plants and trees, Clearing weeds
from brick sidewalks,
[5:26] painting railings and pools, tending
parks, removing litter,
[5:31] and of course the cigarette butts,
[5:33] and rolling up his sleeves to help
wherever he is needed.
[5:38] And whereas, through these enduring
contributions,
[5:42] Robert's unwavering dedication has
improved Gardiner's neighborhoods,
[5:47] improved Gardiner's neighborhoods,
businesses,
[5:48] public spaces, and civic life.
[5:50] Now therefore, I, Patricia Hart, Mayor of
the City of Gardiner,
[5:55] Together with the City Council, hereby
proclaim Wednesday, September 9th, 2026,
[6:01] as Robert Abbey Day in the City of
Gardner. And I didn't even cry.
[6:08] Uh, I'll have you talk from up here. And
I'll give you the microphone.
[6:12] Congratulations. But before you do, at
this time,
[6:14] I'd entertain a motion to adopt the
proclamation.
[6:16] Thank you, Mayor. I move to approve the
mayoral proclamation for Robert Abbey.
[6:20] Motion made by Councilor Greenleaf,
seconded by Councilor Cone. All in favor?
[6:24] That's unanimous.
[6:25] Nobody voted against. So bear with me.
This is my last hurrah. I made some notes.
[6:31] I'm at the point in my life where I walk
into a room and I go,
[6:36] what did I come in here for? So notes.
[6:38] In 2011, when I first showed up here, I
was working at Mount Desert Campground.
[6:44] And Martha, my partner, and I had been
looking at houses in Maine.
[6:49] Now, because we're from Massachusetts
originally, we were looking on the coast,
[6:55] of course. And then she called me up and
said,
[6:58] I'd really like you to look at a house in
Gardiner.
[7:02] I go, Gardiner's in central Maine.
[7:04] Central Massachusetts.
[7:05] No, not that Gardner. It's one with— has
an I in it. So I said, well, where is it?
[7:11] Well, you know how everybody tells where
Gardner is.
[7:14] It's just off the rest stop on 295.
[7:17] Has nothing to do with what Gardner really
is like.
[7:20] So I came and I parked at 79 Elm Street.
[7:23] Woman came running out saying, do you want
to see my house?
[7:28] Sure.
[7:29] So we did, even though there was no
realtor present.
[7:33] And I loved the house and That's the short
story.
[7:36] So we ended up there and it's been
amazing.
[7:39] I called Martha back and said, the house
is great.
[7:42] And I was sitting in what I think was
Dearborn Park,
[7:45] but I didn't know the parks by name at
that point.
[7:49] I was impressed by the facades and the
preserved architecture and the ambiance of
[7:54] the street and the river and the parks. I
said, this is it.
[7:58] She said, what are you talking about? I
said, this is Bedford Falls.
[8:03] And it truly is. I mean,
[8:04] I tried to convince Mike Michelin for
years to do an outside—
[8:08] there's an outside version of It's a
Wonderful Life. And we have a river.
[8:13] We have a savings and loan. We have a
story to go with it.
[8:17] And we actually have an angel named
Clarence. A real person.
[8:21] He doesn't like you to know that. But he's
real and he's a great volunteer.
[8:26] And he is aware that he's named after that
angel.
[8:29] I want to thank some people and I want to
just run through this part quickly.
[8:34] City staff is always willing to help. I've
never been turned away.
[8:39] You don't have people say you can't ask
those kinds of questions.
[8:43] In Gardner, they want to know more.
[8:45] Gardner Main Street, City Council, always
backing the projects, downtown business.
[8:51] And a diversion, because I just thought of
this today when I was in the room trying
[8:56] to remember what I was supposed to be
doing.
[8:59] Anybody remember Daniel Lane from the
Village Jeweler?
[9:03] Yes.
[9:03] Oh my. Our assignment from Gardiner Main
Street was to go interview 5 business
[9:08] owners, each board member. I got Daniel
Lane. I didn't know Daniel Lane.
[9:13] I knew the store. I went in. I said, would
it be okay?
[9:17] I'm from Gardiner Main Street and I'd like
to really chat with you about your
[9:22] business and your time in Gardiner. He
goes, Get out of my store. I said, why?
[9:27] I don't have solicitors. So I left.
[9:29] One day, maybe a month later, it was
pouring rain on a Tuesday.
[9:33] So you know what Water Street was like.
[9:36] It was abandoned.
[9:38] He was sitting behind the counter.
[9:40] Now, Daniel is not the nice guy who's out
front at Village Jeweler.
[9:45] He's the guy in the back who owns it all.
[9:48] I went in and said, I was here the other
day,
[9:51] but I really love to talk with you about
your time in town as a businessman,
[9:56] the business itself, what Gardner's like.
[9:59] 3 hours later, I knew everything about his
family, about his business,
[10:04] about his life, and the almost complete
history of the Russian Orthodox Church.
[10:10] That's the downtown business community,
and they are so important.
[10:15] I want to thank Rotary.
[10:16] Rotary does so much, and they always do
exactly what they say they will do.
[10:22] The Tree Committee I'll say some more
about that in a minute.
[10:26] I want to welcome Thomas Hill and family.
[10:29] Mayors Harnett and Hart, they were great
to work with.
[10:33] They encouraged us all the time.
[10:35] Patrick Wright, Melissa Lindley from
Gardiner Main Street.
[10:39] Melissa's still honchoing things from City
Hall.
[10:42] She's going to take over our signage
project. Dawn Thistle and Jody Clark.
[10:48] And Dorothy, from whom I learned all the
history I could about this community.
[10:53] And Dawn is a friend and a confidante.
She's also a good witch.
[10:58] Should I explain that or not?
[11:00] No.
[11:01] All right.
[11:02] She helps with Halloween.
[11:04] I've had good volunteers all the way
along,
[11:07] but I have to single out the heads of
public works I met regularly with.
[11:12] Tony with Jerry, and I meet with John.
[11:14] And John is really very interesting
because he does everything he says he will
[11:20] because he does everything he says he will
do.
[11:20] He does it. And he does it rapidly and on
time.
[11:23] The only time I think I startled him was
when I went in for one of the meetings and
[11:29] I said, well, I should tell you that I was
really bored this weekend,
[11:34] so I scrubbed the ceiling of the gazebo.
And he just looked at me.
[11:39] The kids shake up their sodas with the
bottles,
[11:42] and then they take their thumb off and it
goes— and it goes all over the ceiling.
[11:48] It turns to goo. It kind of needs it now,
John. I looked the other day.
[11:53] We practiced something that Patrik taught
us called tactical urbanism.
[11:58] It's not just an accident the way
committees came and did things.
[12:02] It's out of Bates College, so it's a main
product Here it is,
[12:06] How to Hack Your City with Paint,
Planters,
[12:09] and Pop-Up Parks and Prove Change Is
Possible Now. The emphasis is on now.
[12:15] You don't ask for permission. You get it
later. We never had to ask forgiveness.
[12:20] We often came to city council with a
project underway, and we'd get support.
[12:26] And we'd sometimes get immediate funding.
They'd say, let's fund some of this.
[12:31] The city always said, do more.
[12:33] And so there aren't many communities where
you can invent your own committees and
[12:39] then find support. I want to mention 3
things really quickly: the fountain,
[12:44] the trees, and Johnson Hall.
[12:46] The fountain was an important project for
us partly because it was a rescue.
[12:51] It had been beautifully redone in 1977 by
some of Dorothy's associates and Statue
[12:57] made for that occasion.
[12:59] There is one funny story beyond this, and
Dorothy will deny this.
[13:03] A 9-year-old son of the artist was here
when they were mounting Lady and the Birds
[13:09] on her pedestal. Now, I've talked to this.
He's a grown-up man now.
[13:14] He said, well, we were all ready to bolt
her down on the pedestal,
[13:18] and somebody came out of the church and
said, you're going to have to turn that—
[13:24] Pedestal.
[13:24] person around. As you know, the Lady is
not wearing clothes,
[13:29] and the church apparently objected.
[13:32] So they willingly turned it around, bolted
her down,
[13:36] and now the church has a very different
vantage point.
[13:41] But Lady appropriately looks out over the
whole vista of the Common.
[13:46] When it was redone a couple of years ago,
everybody was on board.
[13:51] Rusty was a right-hand person on the
fundraising.
[13:55] I got to say, we thank Rotary, KSB, Peter
Prescott, the Davis Family Foundation,
[14:02] Robinson Fund, and the other one, Coombs,
and Public Works.
[14:06] And the $180,000— we came up a little
short.
[14:10] Guess who found the remainder of money in
a budget?
[14:14] The city.
[14:17] So the city provided manpower and guided
the whole process.
[14:21] Lady went to Public Works to be protected
while they tore everything apart.
[14:27] And everybody asked me, where's the
fountain? Where's the lady?
[14:31] I said, she's at a secure location. We
didn't tell.
[14:35] I would say that the most recent committee
other than the Parks Committee that came
[14:41] to be is Dorothy's Tree Committee.
[14:44] Jessica Lowell, who was then a reporter
for Gardner for the KJ, is a great person.
[14:50] She's fun. She called me, and she'd called
to get the straight story on something.
[14:56] She said, so I hear that Gardner is
clear-cutting its common. What?
[15:01] Well, it was in a fashion.
[15:03] All the old diseased trees were being
taken down because they were hollow in the
[15:09] middle. They had decreased production.
[15:12] Yeah.
[15:13] They were just in— the last time it had
been pruned was in the ice storm of 1998.
[15:19] And now reforestation has come thanks to
Dorothy's tree committee.
[15:24] Are we up to almost 40 trees?
[15:27] 33.
[15:29] 33 new trees planted in the last 5 years
or so on the Common, at the waterfront,
[15:34] and in other places.
[15:35] But be advised, Dorothy has her eye on a
linden tree that is by Roger Bintliff's.
[15:41] And it has a sidewalk that goes like this
because it goes up and over the roots.
[15:46] And she knows that the DOT did say at one
point, and it's written down, well,
[15:51] we could just have a slight rise on the
new sidewalks and just preserve that tree.
[15:56] And she will not forget that.
[15:58] Right.
[15:59] One last story about Johnson Hall.
[16:01] This really sums up everything that
happened here during Heart and Soul.
[16:07] And everything that's happened since.
[16:09] Yes, I was part of a group called the
Doctors of Destruction.
[16:14] It was 4 grown men with Sawzalls.
[16:16] And Mike gave us permission to demo floors
2 and 3.
[16:20] So we removed about 10 tons of wood, pipe,
debris, junk, oil burners, stovepipe.
[16:26] Everything you can think of went out back.
[16:29] And while tearing down the ceilings on the
2nd floor, they were tin over—
[16:34] Plaster over lath. We were hauling away on
a section of it, and Charlie Batchelder,
[16:40] who's a very funny person if you know him,
[16:43] was standing at the end of the section we
were working on.
[16:47] All of a sudden, it took its own life and
just started shearing off,
[16:52] and it dumped on top of Charlie.
[16:55] He simply stood up and said, were you
aiming for me?
[16:58] We weren't.
[17:02] The last session of Heart and Soul was at
Gardner Area High School.
[17:07] Some of you might have been there. Lots of
people were there.
[17:12] It was after several years of hard, hard
work.
[17:15] We had to make a task headline for the
years of work. So we discussed it.
[17:21] What the headline ended up being was
Johnson Hall Fully Restored.
[17:26] And everybody cheered and clapped and felt
so good.
[17:30] And then we sort of went— Can we do this?
Guess what? Here's a quote from Downeast.
[17:36] In 2011, Downeast had an article that I
read. It was called The Heart of Gardner.
[17:42] Lots of interviews with people, lots of
comments from John Shaw.
[17:47] And this is what they summarized it as.
[17:50] He said, Gardner is a small city on the
Kennebec, keeps making big plans,
[17:56] and this time they might even come true.
[17:59] Wow.
[18:01] In 2021, the same magazine chose Gardner
as one of its 5 favorite small towns.
[18:08] So thank you all because you were all part
of this. Nobody succeeds alone.
[18:14] I had a lot of help. And I would do it all
again, maybe in another life.
[18:20] Thank you all.
[18:21] Thank you.
[18:31] So Robert, if you're going to do it again,
please come back to Gardner.
[18:34] Okay. All right. Thank you very much for
those remarks.
[18:40] It's really great to walk down memories
and really understand just how
[18:46] many people contribute to the richness of
this community.
[18:52] All right, and the next item on our agenda
is consideration of an outside
[18:59] consumption permit for Johnson Hall.
[19:02] City Manager Hill, any background on this
other than what's in our packet?
[19:09] No, it's very straightforward.
[19:11] They would like an addendum to their
existing work,
[19:14] and it's been reviewed by city staff.
[19:16] There's no objections, no issues that we
discovered. Pretty straightforward.
[19:21] All right, thank you. Any questions from
council?
[19:25] Anyone prepared to make a motion to begin
discussion?
[19:29] Councilor Greenleaf.
[19:31] Thank you, Mayor. I move to approve the
outside consumption permit
[19:35] application for Johnson Hall for an event
on October 23rd and 24th,
[19:39] 2026.
[19:39] Motion made by Councilor Greenleaf,
seconded by Councilor Babcock. Any
[19:45] seconded by Councilor Babcock. Any
discussion?
[19:45] All in favor, please record a unanimous
The next item on the agenda is
[19:51] The next item on the agenda is
consideration
[19:52] of accepting the City Council meeting
minutes from August 19th.
[19:56] Anyone prepared to make a motion?
Councilor Cusick.
[20:00] Thank you, Mayor. I move to accept the
City Council meeting minutes for 8/19/26.
[20:05] Motion made by Councilor Cusick, seconded
by Councilor Kimball. Any discussion? No.
[20:12] With our thanks to Thank you to our deputy
clerk.
[20:16] All in favor, please record a unanimous
vote.
[20:20] The next item on the agenda is
consideration of changes to the sewer
[20:25] consideration of changes to the sewer
discount
[20:26] program. Do we want to invite our clerks
forward to talk about their proposal, or—
[20:32] Yeah, thank you. I was gonna ask Denise,
our finance director, to step up.
[20:39] She and I can answer this.
[20:41] Um, this was a discussion point that had
come up— well, should I continue?
[20:48] Yes, please.
[20:49] This is a discussion point that had come
up in one of my first meetings,
[20:54] was to re-examine our sewer assistance
program,
[20:57] and it hasn't been updated since 2017, I
believe. Is that correct, Denise?
[21:01] Yes. Yeah.
[21:02] So maybe we could overview a little bit of
the Thank you, Your Worship.
[21:06] We've come up with 3 different scenarios
you might consider,
[21:09] and so the idea today is not to vote on
something,
[21:12] but to have a bit of a discussion on the
merits of potentially increasing the
[21:16] program or other ideas that might be out
there so that we can then take it back to
[21:21] the ordinance review committee and
consider what,
[21:23] what to present to council to consider as
a final potential option.
[21:27] But the idea on this was to look at the
fact that prices have risen significantly
[21:31] over the years while our Sewer discount
program for economically disadvantaged
[21:36] residents has not changed since 2017.
[21:38] All right, thank you. Welcome.
[21:40] He said it all. Hello, Denise Brown,
Finance Director.
[21:45] Yeah, our sewer bills have gone up about
80%.
[21:50] And as City Manager Hill said, the
discount program amounts have not gone up.
[21:57] So some people— we've seen a reduction in
people participating,
[22:03] and they probably just don't feel that
it's substantial enough.
[22:09] So currently it's $25 per quarter, I
believe, is the discount.
[22:15] Yes.
[22:16] Does that scale up? Can you give us a
little overview of that?
[22:19] Sure.
[22:21] Let me get to this page here.
[22:25] So we have about 20 individuals who
receive the
[22:32] $25 a month discount,
[22:36] which is for citizens who are between the
age of
[22:43] 65 and 75, and about 20 citizens who
receive the
[22:50] $45 Per quarter reduction for anyone over
76
[22:56] years old. It is based currently on 70% of
the
[23:03] median household income,
[23:07] and we used to have 63 participants,
[23:12] and it's gone down to 40 participants.
[23:18] Okay.
[23:19] So we came up with a few options for
council to
[23:24] think about. We, as I said, the,
[23:28] the quarterly base rate has increased by
80%.
[23:34] So I simply added 50% onto the current $25
and $45.
[23:40] And you can see the numbers.
[23:44] Excuse me.
[23:45] I also did a model with a 75% increase and
a model with
[23:52] 100% increase. We also would recommend
that we change the
[23:59] ages from 65 to 75— from,
[24:03] from 65 to 75 to 62 to 72 for the for the
smaller
[24:09] discount, and from age 76 and older to 73
and older for
[24:17] the higher discount.
[24:19] And you can see what the impact to the
right with each of
[24:27] those scenarios.
[24:29] Thank you, Denise. Yeah,
[24:31] and we also were recommending Potentially
an option to tie it to the Social Security
[24:37] COLA on an annual basis so that you don't
have to review it in the future.
[24:42] It would get a modest— I think it was 1.8%
increase this year for Social Security,
[24:48] for example. And the idea of playing with
the ages and playing with the income
[24:54] levels was to expand it in terms of
eligibility.
[24:58] So going from, you know,
[24:59] a certain median income level to a A
slightly more generous median income level
[25:05] allows people who come in and say, oh, I'm
right on the cusp, I don't qualify,
[25:11] I make a little bit too much, allows a
little bit of space there for residents.
[25:17] And then lowering the age was specifically
tied to the retirement age.
[25:22] People are allowed to collect federal
benefits at 62.
[25:26] So we felt that was a good entry point as
well to consider.
[25:30] And again, these are all considerations
for your debate,
[25:34] but The current ordinance does outline,
you know, 65 and specific amounts,
[25:40] so we could take it back and move forward.
[25:43] The overall— we did some, some very
general numbers that are not in here,
[25:48] but there's about 1,500 accounts on our
sewer program currently,
[25:53] which are households that are receiving
services.
[25:57] If we assume the average household size in
Maine is 2.26 people per household,
[26:02] the reduced revenue at the basic level
would shift about $4.85 in cost to the
[26:08] would shift about $4.85 in cost to the
rest
[26:08] of the accounts. So increasing this
program would result in other people
[26:14] program would result in other people
paying
[26:14] $4.85 more per household.
[26:16] Per quarter or— I think the number we
looked at was per quarter.
[26:21] Yes, I could get back to you if that was
per quarter or annually. Thank you.
[26:26] So the burden would shift to the
ratepayers, not the taxpayers?
[26:32] Correct.
[26:33] Yeah.
[26:33] Yeah.
[26:34] And it's not— it's interesting because
it's not a— we're not giving money away.
[26:39] We're reducing the revenue on the program
by— with this, right?
[26:43] Because we're giving a discount on what is
normally revenue to the city.
[26:47] So we're not increasing taxes to pay for
it,
[26:50] but it would increase the overall sewer
rates slightly per, per account.
[26:54] And then in terms of other towns who are
sharing the service,
[26:58] they would not be impacted because this
would be a Gardner-specific impact on the
[27:02] revenue and their revenue.
[27:04] Okay.
[27:04] Their rates are calculated locally based
on an interlocal agreement that we have
[27:11] with them, which is based on their usage
of the system.
[27:15] So you say there's 1,500 accounts,
[27:18] 1,500 ratepayers in the sewer program at
the moment? Yeah, in Gardner.
[27:24] That have sewer service?
[27:25] That have sewer service.
[27:26] Yeah, total number of people, not quite
sure because it's per household.
[27:30] And so I just quick math, 5 times 1,500,
$7,500. I see $22,000 here.
[27:35] Is this total and we need to just look at
a net number to come up with
[27:41] this?
[27:41] Per quarter.
[27:41] Per quarter?
[27:43] Yes, $7,500 times 4.
[27:45] Oh, times 4. Okay.
[27:46] And again, the numbers, these were
suggested amounts, like a 50% increase.
[27:52] So we showed the numbers, 75% increase,
show the numbers, 100%, show the numbers.
[27:58] It could really, I mean, it could be
anything that you feel is Potentially
[28:03] anything that you feel is Potentially
fair,
[28:03] or it could be nothing if you feel, you
know, the program can't handle it.
[28:09] But as a recommendation from us, since it
hasn't been increased in 9 years,
[28:14] we felt a 50% minimum is reasonable to
consider.
[28:17] And that would move the discount per
account per recipient from $25 to $37.50
[28:23] account per recipient from $25 to $37.50
at the
[28:23] entry level. Still fairly modest.
[28:28] Any questions for our finance director or
city manager?
[28:32] Comments?
[28:36] Comments, sure.
[28:37] Mayor Hart, I certainly appreciate the
kind-hearted thoughts behind this
[28:44] proposal, but it seems to me as if With a
discount program like this,
[28:51] we're shifting the burden over onto young
families with children,
[28:57] who use a lot of water.
[29:00] We're shifting the burden over to somebody
who happens to own a house in town,
[29:07] who is quite income challenged, but
happens to be 35, or 40 years old,
[29:14] or 50 years old. And,
[29:16] we're shifting the burden over to older
people who might live in an apartment
[29:23] that already has sewer and water paid for
as part of their rent. Mm-hmm.
[29:30] So, it's—
[29:32] this strikes me as the land of unintended
consequences in pushing up rates for other
[29:39] people, and not just those of us who We're
fortunate enough that— well, so well.
[29:46] It's a little bit more.
[29:48] We're pushing rates higher on people for
whom it is a real burden.
[29:54] And, that kind of troubles me in general
with this program.
[29:59] I just spent several years as treasurer of
the water district,
[30:04] and in the sale of water among our towns.
You pay what you pay.
[30:10] There are not discounts for being elderly,
or having a limited income.
[30:16] And, it's like that with most utilities.
[30:20] And, I think that's probably the more fair
way for us to do things,
[30:26] and perhaps look for savings elsewhere
within our wastewater treatment
[30:32] within our wastewater treatment
operations.
[30:33] Other thoughts from council?
[30:35] When we, when we looked at this in 2014,
we put a committee together and we had,
[30:40] remember, the city manager,
[30:42] someone that had a young family that used
a lot of sewer and water,
[30:46] with someone that was retired, and I think
we had a city councilor too,
[30:51] and they really went through the issues I
think we need to get some people in whose
[30:57] shoes to try and talk through
specifically.
[31:00] This is always an awkward setting to have
a good discussion because we have to go
[31:05] through the chair. So I don't know if
anybody would be amenable to that.
[31:10] I just have a good mix of people that
would be impacted in different ways to
[31:15] would be impacted in different ways to
look at
[31:16] this. That makes sense. We appreciate all
of this. I think it's time.
[31:21] It's absolutely time to be looking at
this.
[31:28] May I ask a question?
[31:31] Uh, sure. You have to use the microphone,
please, Lisa.
[31:35] Hi, Lisa St. Hilaire, 63 River Ave.
[31:37] I'm just curious if there's about 1,500
accounts and on average 2-point-something
[31:44] people per account, it's about 3,000
people. Population of Gardner is what,
[31:49] people. Population of Gardner is what,
6,500?
[31:50] So almost half the city's on the program.
[31:53] So that's my question, is half this, you
know,
[31:56] how much of the city is on the program?
[31:59] So the 2.26 number is the average in
Maine.
[32:02] Yeah, it's just, it's just a curiosity.
[32:04] It seemed like it seemed high when I
started doing that math,
[32:07] like half the city's on the program.
[32:09] We have a large number of households with
septic.
[32:12] Yeah, yeah, thank you.
[32:14] And by program, that's the number of
people who are In the sewer,
[32:18] use the sewer services, not the number of
people receiving benefits.
[32:23] We have about 20— I think it was 40 total
households currently who are receiving
[32:28] assistance.
[32:29] That makes more sense. Thank you.
[32:33] Any other thoughts? Councilor Greenleaf,
go ahead. Thank you, Mayor.
[32:38] I would certainly be in favor of a
committee looking at this and then maybe
[32:43] committee looking at this and then maybe
bringing
[32:43] recommendations to ORC with what they And
then ORC can look at the numbers and go
[32:49] from there.
[32:49] Yeah, in the past we skipped ORC just
because it was a numbers change,
[32:54] but we could certainly send it to ORC.
[32:56] I'm fine either way, but I do think it's
time we look at this.
[32:59] It's been 9 years and everything continues
to go up.
[33:02] I think it's time to at least take a look
at it.
[33:04] Denise, you left before we could say thank
you.
[33:12] I can reach out to council members
separately and see who might be interested
[33:16] separately and see who might be interested
in
[33:16] engaging, or I could reach out and just
organize a group myself.
[33:20] We could take care of the discussion.
[33:22] As a— someone who hopes to own a home,
[33:24] who has a family who uses a lot of water
every day, I appreciate the comments,
[33:29] of course. I think all of it does need to
be considered quite clearly.
[33:33] Thank you.
[33:36] Anybody else? No, we're good.
[33:37] All right.
[33:37] Thanks, everybody. The next item on the
agenda is possible amendments to the land
[33:44] use ordinance to allow drive-through
establishments in the planned industrial
[33:51] commercial district to the Ordinance
Review Committee.
[33:56] So I thought I saw— oh, there you are.
[33:59] I thought I saw—
[34:01] We have our code enforcement officer here
tonight.
[34:03] Good evening, Council. Chris McNeil, code
enforcement.
[34:07] Good evening.
[34:07] So that title's slightly misleading.
[34:10] There was a request made of the city that
we allow restaurants with drive-throughs
[34:15] on a particular lot on Brunswick Avenue.
[34:18] Most of outer Brunswick Avenue is zoned
planned development,
[34:22] which does allow restaurants with
drive-throughs.
[34:26] The particular lot which recently hit the
market Yes.
[34:30] The lot in question is in an old
subdivision at the intersection of Market
[34:35] subdivision at the intersection of Market
Lane and
[34:35] Brunswick Ave. That particular lot was
zoned as part of the Market Lane Business
[34:41] Park. So, it was zoned PIC, which does not
allow restaurants.
[34:45] The potential buyer who made this request
is arguing that since the rest of Outer
[34:51] Brunswick allows them,
[34:52] can we change the zoning of this
particular lot to be Planned Development
[34:57] particular lot to be Planned Development
instead?
[34:58] Instead of PIC. Alternately,
[35:00] if you guys don't want to alter the zoning
and new zoning maps and all that,
[35:05] the other option is to, as the agenda item
says,
[35:09] allow restaurants with drive-throughs in
PIC. PIC's the business parks, pretty
[35:14] PIC. PIC's the business parks, pretty
much.
[35:14] Either way would, would, would work to
make this change,
[35:18] just different methods of achieving it.
[35:21] There aren't a lot of lots in PIC that are
currently still developable.
[35:26] A lot of them have been developed or sold,
or—
[35:29] so making a change in uses to that zone is
not going to have that large of an
[35:35] impact.
[35:35] Thank you. Questions from council? Anybody
want to make a motion?
[35:41] Motion to send it to ORC, or we do our
vigorous head nodding, I guess,
[35:47] for this. But there's a— there is a
proposed motion here.
[35:52] Councilor Cusick, go ahead.
[35:55] Thank you, Mayor. I move—
[35:57] I move to task the Ordinance Review
Committee to review a possible zone
[36:03] change for City Tax Map 011, Lot 039, 040,
041, 042, 043,
[36:09] and 044 from PIC to PD.
[36:13] Motion made by Councilor Cusick, seconded
by Councilor Cone.
[36:17] I just had a question. We don't usually
tell ORC which lots to rezone.
[36:22] We usually say work the issue.
[36:25] Yep.
[36:25] Um, would anybody— and we don't usually
vote on this.
[36:29] We usually just say send it, send the
issue along.
[36:33] Um, are people okay if we— Councilor
Cusick, I know you made the motion,
[36:38] but can we Would you mind if we undid
listing the lots? It's really specific.
[36:44] There's a—
[36:45] just, we want to go through, but do we
need a certain section?
[36:49] I mean, so what are we sending to
ordinance review for? Just one?
[36:54] I mean, there's specific lots here, but
are they going to know what if we did—
[36:59] what are we sending them?
[37:00] ORC will know what the discussion is.
[37:03] A broader Directive for ORC,
[37:05] something along the lines of to examine
the zoning around that intersection,
[37:10] maybe more appropriate.
[37:12] To review the zoning around the Market
Street and
[37:18] Brunswick Avenue section of 201. How's
that? Okay.
[37:25] That gives them more leeway to do their
work. Thank you.
[37:28] Councillor Colley-Urquhart. Are you good
with that change?
[37:32] All right, any discussion?
[37:35] Nope.
[37:36] All in favor, please record a unanimous
vote. Thank you very much.
[37:39] Thanks, Chris.
[37:40] The next item on the agenda is,
[37:44] is a request for and reappropriation of
the FY 2026
[37:49] funds. So City Manager Hill.
[37:55] Thank you. Yeah, thank you.
[37:57] So in FY26, there had been a decision on
the Public Works operating budget to move
[38:03] $50,000 from what had been proposed for
paving into a special revenue account
[38:08] restricted to the Arcade parking lot
project.
[38:11] That $50,000 was not spent in FY26 and
remains on the So at the last council
[38:16] meeting, we discussed the Arcade parking
lot project,
[38:20] and we noted that across all accounts,
including TIFs and other budgets,
[38:25] there's approximately $1.4 million
potentially earmarked for that or other
[38:30] potentially earmarked for that or other
projects,
[38:30] which means this $50,000 that we have in
the special revenue account marked only
[38:36] the special revenue account marked only
for
[38:36] the Arcade parking lot is— Is dwarfed by—
The rest of the funds there.
[38:41] But since that funds— since the funds were
not spent last year,
[38:45] what we'd like to do is have those
reappropriated to the current Public Works
[38:50] operating budget to be spent to handle
making the Arcade parking lot suitable for
[38:56] plowing this winter,
[38:57] as well as a few other existing projects
in the city that we could tack on to the
[39:03] current paving work that's being done.
[39:05] We're looking at a few outstanding paving
projects, sidewalk project,
[39:10] and a few other areas in the city that
have high traffic and outstanding needs.
[39:15] And Public Works Director John Cameron has
worked with our contractors to look at
[39:21] potential costs. So it's basically we're
asking to unlock $50,000 that's sitting
[39:26] there that will not create a new tax
burden,
[39:29] but could be spent immediately because we
have capacity to handle a few projects
[39:35] that the community's asked for.
[39:37] Thank you.
[39:38] All right, welcome.
[39:39] Hello, Public Works Director John Cameron.
[39:42] Um, yeah, we definitely have a few
projects that we'd like to take care of.
[39:48] Um, and this money would just go to those
that we've already kind of earmarked.
[39:54] We'd like to get them,
[39:55] and I talked to the contractor that we had
doing our paving this year,
[40:00] and that money would cover said projects,
[40:03] and he was Actually contacted me earlier
today and asked me how things were going
[40:09] and looking because he could possibly get
here as early as Friday to get started on
[40:16] a couple. An opening in the schedule could
be our benefit.
[40:20] Great, thank you. Questions from council?
Councillor Holmes.
[40:25] John, what, what will we do down at the
arcade parking lot?
[40:30] The arcade parking lot, to make it
plowable for this year, is basically a
[40:35] plowable for this year, is basically a
Band-Aid.
[40:35] Um, right now—
[40:36] Anything beyond filling potholes?
[40:38] A little bit more than filling potholes up
along the edge of the back of the
[40:43] buildings where there's actually some— I
wouldn't call it a puddle,
[40:48] it's more of craters at this point,
[40:51] because those last year were beating up
the plows.
[40:55] pretty bad and trying to make sure we
didn't move the manhole basins when we're
[41:00] trying to plow it down there.
[41:02] This will make it so we can protect our
equipment and plow that area and keep it a
[41:08] lot less ice down there this year. It
would help tremendously.
[41:13] Anybody else? Questions? No?
[41:16] All righty, so our action here is To— we
have a motion.
[41:22] The motion, uh, Councilor Babcock, please.
[41:26] I move to approve transfer and
reappropriation of $50,000 from the FY
[41:32] reappropriation of $50,000 from the FY
2026 Arcade
[41:33] Parking Lot Special Revenue Account to the
FY 27 Public Works Operating Budget.
[41:39] Motion made by Councilor Babcock, seconded
by Councilor Kimball.
[41:44] Any discussion? Nope. All in favor? Please
record a unanimous vote.
[41:49] Thank you.
[41:50] Thank you.
[41:50] Thank you, John.
[41:51] All right, the next item—
[41:54] the next item on the agenda is
establishing an EMS regional
[42:02] cost share analysis advisory group.
[42:06] Thank you. Yeah, this one is specifically
from me in discussion with Our partners on
[42:12] the ambulance committee,
[42:14] several councilors who are engaged with
the ambulance committee,
[42:19] interested in the ambulance committee.
[42:21] I would like to form a short-term task
force to examine the current structure and
[42:27] costing arrangement of the ambulance
service,
[42:31] which serves all the regional communities
that we're engaged with.
[42:36] Thank you.
[42:38] I know Councillor Greenleaf is currently
on the ambulance committee.
[42:42] They're well aware of the partners and the
discussions there.
[42:45] But the idea really is to pull together a
group of people who can help me analyze
[42:50] exactly where we want to go and how we can
keep the ambulance service solvent in the
[42:55] future, but also ensure that partner towns
are carrying a fair share of the cost and
[43:00] Gardiner's not liable for more than it
should be liable for.
[43:03] Okay.
[43:04] And just looking at the future with the
chiefs and with political leadership and
[43:09] with city staff saying, this is where we
want to take this huge regional project.
[43:15] And I've now been city manager for almost
3 months.
[43:19] Woo!
[43:19] And I think in that period, looking at the
ambulance service in particular,
[43:24] what I realized is our ambulance service
out of here serves 25,000 people.
[43:28] people across 200 square miles as one of
the largest emergency services in the
[43:33] state. And so I think having a real strong
idea of where Gardner wants to go before
[43:38] we hit the next budget cycle,
[43:40] so then we can start working with partner
towns to ensure everyone's on the same
[43:45] page and we reach, you know, strong
agreements for the future, I think is a,
[43:49] is a critical thing to do. And right now
is the right time to do it.
[43:53] So I'm proposing a temporary task It's a
task force that will have 3 or 4 council
[43:58] members on it, so it would have to be a
publicly noticed meeting and committee
[44:03] publicly noticed meeting and committee
kind
[44:03] of task force. So, yeah, I need your
permission and authority to do so.
[44:08] The group will not be authorized to expend
funds.
[44:11] It will not be authorized to make changes
to structures.
[44:14] We do have the ambulance committee,
obviously, which is appointed,
[44:18] so I think it would be more the advisory
committee to help look at the future of
[44:23] where we're going with things from the
Gardner perspective.
[44:26] Thank you.
[44:30] Questions from council? Councilor
Greenleaf, go ahead.
[44:33] Thank you, Mayor. Not a question, but a
comment.
[44:35] Having served on that board for a number
of years,
[44:37] this isn't something that just came from
Gardner.
[44:39] At our last ambulance advisory board
meeting,
[44:41] the partner towns that we have that make
this service work—
[44:43] because we could not do it without them—
are all on board with this.
[44:46] They realize the cost of everything has
gone up.
[44:48] They appreciate the service we do,
[44:50] and they're willing to look at this and
see if they need to pay more.
[44:53] They're willing to step up and do that.
[44:54] I'm not saying they're going to fund the
whole thing,
[44:57] but they are willing to look at this and
want us to do so to try to balance this
[45:00] want us to do so to try to balance this
out
[45:00] for everybody so we can provide the
services needed.
[45:02] So this isn't coming just from Gardner.
[45:04] This is the 7 other communities that are
in favor of this as well.
[45:07] Thank you. Anybody else?
[45:10] No.
[45:11] Anybody prepared to make the motion?
Councilor Dolley.
[45:18] I think my iPad just went dead, so—
[45:25] I moved to have the city manager establish
EMS regional cost share analysis and
[45:32] advisory group in accordance with the
discussed scope of work for December 31st,
[45:40] Thank you.
[45:41] Motion made by Councilor Dolley, seconded
by Councilor Cohn.
[45:45] Any discussion? All in favor, please
record a unanimous vote.
[45:50] Thank you.
[45:51] Thank you. That's a big task ahead to look
at all that.
[45:57] Okay, so our next item that we added at
the beginning of the meeting is a
[46:04] discussion on BOE Hunting in high-density
residential neighborhoods.
[46:11] As long as you use the microphone.
[46:18] Welcome.
[46:19] Good evening, Council. My name is Lisa St.
Hilaire. I live at 63 River Ave.
[46:23] I'm here tonight with my neighbor Helen
Stevens.
[46:26] Helen Stevens, 128 Dresden Avenue.
[46:30] Recently, several neighbors on Dresden Ave
were approached by a bow hunter seeking
[46:36] permission to hunt on their land,
[46:38] and that's these woods up here between
Dresden River Cottage and Kingsbury.
[46:43] Um, it's our strong belief that based on
city code and state hunting laws,
[46:48] that hunting of any sort, including
archery and bow hunting,
[46:52] shouldn't be allowed here. I've got quite
a long letter here.
[46:56] I'll just go through it pretty quickly.
[46:59] Currently, the land use ordinance defines
hunting as a passive recreational activity
[47:05] allowed in all zones within the city,
[47:07] and we come to you this evening to request
that hunting, including archery hunting,
[47:13] is not allowed in certain zones,
[47:15] particularly places like HDR that are
highly populated.
[47:19] This could easily be accomplished by
adding a note to the use chart in Chapter
[47:24] adding a note to the use chart in Chapter
7 of
[47:24] the land use ordinance under Rural uses,
passive recreation.
[47:29] And of note, I sit on the land use
ordinance and the land use ordinance
[47:33] ordinance and the land use ordinance
board—
[47:34] what are we, land use ordinance committee—
and the ordinance review board.
[47:39] Gardner City Code has some discussion of
firearms,
[47:42] but this doesn't include bows or
crossbows, but slingshots are included.
[47:47] And so that's kind of a— Should bows and
crossbows be included?
[47:51] Um, the city code also defines areas
within which firearms may be discharged or
[47:57] within which firearms may be discharged or
may
[47:57] not be discharged. Mostly, I think that's
South Gardner.
[48:01] It was a little hard to understand the
boundaries listed in the city code there.
[48:06] But discharge of firearms outside of this
restricted area,
[48:10] which might be the area we're in,
[48:12] indicates that a dated and signed written
permission is necessary to discharge any
[48:18] firearms. on another person's property,
and that has to be updated yearly.
[48:23] Firearms may not be discharged within 400
feet of a dwelling or structure,
[48:28] nor may a projectile from a firearm pass
within 400 feet of a dwelling or structure
[48:34] on somebody else's property, and that
distance is increased for schools.
[48:38] State rules from the Inland Fisheries and
Wildlife Department for archery equipment
[48:44] near dwellings and buildings state 100
yards, so that's 300 feet.
[48:49] It's a little less than the cities for
firearms.
[48:52] What's interesting statewide is that in
the 2023 legislative session,
[48:56] I think that it changed in 2024,
[48:59] is that you don't get a bow hunting
license anymore. You get an archery
[49:03] license anymore. You get an archery
license.
[49:04] And that archery license includes
crossbows.
[49:07] So somebody could be bow hunting on your
land, and that could be crossbows.
[49:12] Um, and we think that the flight distances
and velocities for arrows and bolts out
[49:18] of these crossbows is incompatible with an
area zoned high-density residential.
[49:23] Typically, people hunt for deer with a 50
to 70-pound compound bow,
[49:28] a 45 to 50-pound recurve bow,
[49:30] and state rules indicate that the minimum
crossbow hunting weight is 100 pounds.
[49:35] And then there's a whole lot of specifics
here that I'm not going to read out loud
[49:41] regarding velocities and distances that
arrows and bolts can travel,
[49:45] but they can travel up to 1,200 feet and
at a velocity of up to 270 miles an hour,
[49:51] which is higher than the projectiles fired
from a slingshot.
[49:55] Though bow hunters are typically careful,
they miss.
[49:58] And a hunter in these woods could
inadvertently shoot something into
[50:03] inadvertently shoot something into
somebody's
[50:04] yard, hit somebody, hit the house, hit a
person, hit a pet.
[50:08] And we also believe it's important to
consider that deer struck by an arrow
[50:13] typically travel some distance before they
die.
[50:16] The distance a deer travels after being
hit will depend— how big is the deer,
[50:21] how much terrain, how much adrenaline, all
of these things—
[50:25] but it's quite likely that that deer could
travel from a place where permission was
[50:31] granted to hunt to a place where it was
not.
[50:34] And if that wounded deer travels to a
place where it was not granted permission
[50:39] place where it was not granted permission
for
[50:39] the hunter to be, That hunter is not
allowed by state law to come onto that
[50:44] allowed by state law to come onto that
land to
[50:45] get that wounded animal.
[50:47] So it's quite possible a wounded deer
could end up in somebody's backyard.
[50:52] And there's some specifics here about how,
you know, if you hit a double lung,
[50:57] how fast they drop, you know, how many
feet do they travel. But they tend to
[51:02] feet do they travel. But they tend to
travel.
[51:03] They don't tend to drop.
[51:04] Okay.
[51:08] And I don't think any of us want a wounded
and dying animal to show up in their
[51:13] backyard. This whole area, these woods
back here, it's about 30 acres.
[51:17] Helen and my property about cut it in
half.
[51:20] To the south of us is the hospital,
[51:22] has a large property around the
Alzheimer's unit.
[51:25] And to the north of us, one person has
granted hunters permission.
[51:29] It's this lot up here in the corner. But
nobody else has.
[51:33] And Chief Seabold knows that people have
been posting their land recently because
[51:38] there was a fire out in those woods, um,
on Lot 10.
[51:41] It's Susan Prew's place,
[51:43] and she got hot to trot and got all the
neighbors to post their land no
[51:47] neighbors to post their land no
trespassing.
[51:48] So a hunter will have to ask them
permission to hunt there.
[51:52] So it just, it just speaks to the larger
issue that this is HDR, high density.
[51:57] Should you allow hunting? Should you allow
bow hunting? It's not anti-hunting.
[52:02] It's not that we shouldn't allow hunting
in rural areas of the city.
[52:06] And it's not to say that you can't, like,
[52:09] have an archery butt in your backyard and
do target practice. That's your property.
[52:14] You can do what you want.
[52:15] But you're hunting an animal that's going
to travel across your property boundaries.
[52:21] You're using projectiles that are going to
travel across the property boundaries.
[52:26] And they're kind of tight back here.
[52:28] Um, We have big lots because it's an
unbuildable area of ravines, gullies,
[52:33] unbuildable area of ravines, gullies,
streams.
[52:33] I don't know what's going on over here or
up here,
[52:36] but I suspect that's the same thing.
[52:39] So I just think it's something that the
council should consider allowing or
[52:43] disallowing hunting of any sort, including
archery, in HDR and possibly other zones.
[52:49] You know, you certainly wouldn't allow it
in traditional downtown or any of those
[52:54] kinds of places. Anything?
[52:57] It— when you look at this area, these
lines don't exist.
[53:02] When you look at this area, it is all open
woodland.
[53:07] It is bisected by streams, very steep
gullies, which is why it's unbuildable,
[53:14] it's undevelopable. But people look at
that and go, oh my God,
[53:20] this is so beautiful. It's all open
woodland. And it is.
[53:25] But the reality is— this is the reality.
[53:29] It is a patchwork quilt of private
property.
[53:33] And anybody knows when you hit an animal,
you know,
[53:38] maybe in the movies it falls over dead.
[53:41] But in reality, it does not just fall over
dead.
[53:46] Nobody in that area owns enough property
to give permission to hunt in,
[53:53] in that area, um, safely. And that's the
reality.
[53:57] One of Lisa's neighbors, uh, I think said
it very well.
[54:02] He said he's a hunter, but he would never
hunt in there because it's too tight.
[54:10] And then he might have to kill a deer in
somebody's backyard.
[54:16] And that's another whole problem to deal
with.
[54:20] And the other thing is bow hunters, or
archery hunters, as the state now calls
[54:24] archery hunters, as the state now calls
them,
[54:24] are allowed to carry a sidearm,
[54:26] but they're not allowed to use the sidearm
to dispatch a wounded animal.
[54:30] So you have to wait for the animal to die.
[54:32] So your recommendation is that we send it
to the Ordinance Review Committee
[54:37] to take a look at the city ordinance,
match it up with the Yep, yep, yep.
[54:42] And I know we have some more immediate
things that we're going to do.
[54:45] We're going to post our land and talk to
some of the neighbors.
[54:48] And I think the chief of police might talk
to the person who granted permission,
[54:52] because as Helen noted, when you're back
in there, you can't tell.
[54:55] I know where my property line is,
[54:57] but the property line kind of angles off
at a weird southerly direction,
[55:01] but the ridges all go at this weird
northerly direction.
[55:03] And it's very confusing whose property
you're on once you get back in there.
[55:07] And I can't imagine that somebody who
doesn't know those woods would know whose
[55:11] property they were on.
[55:12] And bow hunting starts Saturday.
[55:15] Yeah, that's—
[55:18] it really is for us. It's a public safety
issue.
[55:22] We really do not want anyone back there
bow hunting with a compound bow or a
[55:28] crossbow, for God's sake.
[55:30] So on that issue, City Manager Hill,
[55:32] I think Chief Pillsbury worked with the
folks involved today.
[55:36] So that's taken care of for Saturday,
correct?
[55:39] But so what we can do tonight is see if we
get some vigorous head nodding to send
[55:45] this.
[55:45] Yeah. And I don't know if firearms need to
be redefined in the land use ordinance to
[55:50] include archery equipment or not. I mean,
should firearms include slingshots?
[55:55] You know, as somebody who lives in a
biggish lot,
[55:58] I'm a little peeved I can't shoot my .22
to kill the woodchucks that are bothering
[56:03] me. But I'm not allowed to, right?
[56:05] So should, should archery equipment be in
there too?
[56:09] Thoughts, thoughts for you guys. Thank you
for your time.
[56:12] Yeah, thank you.
[56:15] Thank you so much for adding us in at the
last moment for the agenda.
[56:19] Truly, we appreciate it.
[56:20] Thanks for coming and for your
presentation.
[56:23] It, it certainly is a pressing public
safety issue.
[56:27] So for sending it to the Ordinance Review
Committee, any objections?
[56:32] No, everybody's good.
[56:34] Okay.
[56:35] All right.
[56:35] Can I ask a question?
[56:36] Yeah, go ahead.
[56:37] You folks have done some research.
[56:40] Are you saying that it is legal to hunt in
[56:43] high-density residential?
[56:45] Currently, it is not legal to discharge a
firearm.
[56:50] Okay.
[56:51] But archery isn't included firearms.
[56:54] Gotcha.
[56:54] Currently legal for archery hunting to
take place in HDR.
[56:59] Okay.
[57:00] I was hearing you right then. Thank you.
[57:02] State law does allow with the permission
of the landowner and with stipulations on—
[57:07] Yeah, the caveats about within 100 feet,
100 yards of a residence.
[57:13] You can be within 100 yards of a residence
if that owner has given permission or an
[57:19] adult in the house has given permission,
according to the state rules.
[57:25] And the folks I talked to at IF&W—
[57:28] Discharge of a firearm?
[57:30] Correct.
[57:31] In our high-density residential?
[57:32] Correct. Oh, that's actually not clear.
It's not within 400 feet of a structure.
[57:38] So that, that's actually not clear to me.
Yeah.
[57:41] And the folks at IF&W told me I should
invite the game warden in.
[57:45] I'm like, yeah, I don't I think that needs
to happen right now.
[57:50] We will send it back to you and your
committee.
[57:53] Thank you.
[57:54] All right.
[57:55] So we are good with that.
[57:57] So the follow-up there is that will get
added to ORC's list. Thank you all.
[58:03] So I think that is all of our new
business.
[58:07] Before we get to the city manager's
report, I just want to say, Robert,
[58:12] this is a really special last city council
meeting.
[58:16] Sewer and deer and— and what else did we
have?
[58:20] Fire and liquor license, which we always
have, right?
[58:24] Perfect.
[58:25] So thank you.
[58:27] All fun stuff.
[58:29] All right, City Manager report.
[58:31] Thank you.
[58:33] I'll be brief today. I just wanted to
mention a few key moments upcoming.
[58:38] One is to welcome all the students back.
[58:40] Schools did start this week, and I think
we have some teachers as well.
[58:45] Yeah, congratulations.
[58:47] And it's been really enjoyable to see my
own kids enroll in Garden Area schools.
[58:52] Really, really nice.
[58:53] We have, just so everyone does know, on
Wednesday the 9th,
[58:57] the water will be off on Church Street,
[59:00] so that will impact City Hall most of the
day.
[59:03] Hopefully it'll be back on by the time
City Hall opens at noon on Wednesday the
[59:08] City Hall opens at noon on Wednesday the
9th,
[59:08] but it will be off from Mechanic to
Dresden.
[59:11] We've been told by the water district
today.
[59:14] On the 12th of September, we're having a
library book sale.
[59:18] I encourage everyone to come and support.
It's from 9:00 AM to 2:00 PM on the 12th.
[59:24] And on September 15th,
[59:25] We will kick off the comprehensive
planning public event week at Johnson Hall
[59:30] planning public event week at Johnson Hall
at
[59:30] 5:00 PM. Doors will open 5:30 for
community feedback engagement session,
[59:35] hopefully fun, good, enjoyable discussion.
[59:38] So I would encourage everyone to attend
that as well.
[59:42] And I've left some information there.
[59:44] But yeah, from my side, I just want to say
thank you.
[59:48] I think the coming few weeks will be quite
heavy with events across lots of
[59:53] different things, and I've noticed
different organizations are all starting
[59:58] different organizations are all starting
to
[59:58] cross-schedule each other as well.
[1:00:00] So I think there's a lot going on in the
city, um,
[1:00:03] but a lot of really interesting
discussions and exciting things to be
[1:00:08] discussions and exciting things to be
engaged with.
[1:00:09] So thank you. Great, thank you. Councilor
updates, starting with Councilor Cone.
[1:00:14] I just want to thank the department heads
for all the work they've done.
[1:00:18] Great work for the city manager and I
appreciate the citizens bringing things
[1:00:24] appreciate the citizens bringing things
before
[1:00:25] us to consider.
[1:00:26] Thank you. Councilor Greenleaf.
[1:00:28] Thank you, Mayor. I just wanted to again
thank department heads, but also, um,
[1:00:32] thank Johnson Hall for the waterfront
concerts.
[1:00:34] We started with rain, we ended with rain,
but in between were some great nights,
[1:00:37] and it brought a lot of people to Gardner.
[1:00:39] And appreciate the fact they do that for
the citizens and for the ensuing
[1:00:42] communities, surrounding communities.
[1:00:44] Hear, hear. Councilor Cusick.
[1:00:47] I just— quick shout out Shout out to
Public Works.
[1:00:50] Thanks for cleaning up some bushes on West
Street and paving in a couple driveway
[1:00:56] lips on Maple Street.
[1:00:57] Got a couple calls from the residents,
very appreciative for that. Thank you.
[1:01:02] I'll step down.
[1:01:03] All right, Councilor Kimball.
[1:01:05] Thank you.
[1:01:07] Thank you for the department heads.
[1:01:10] And you've been here 3 months, that's
really a lot. Uh, and thank you to John.
[1:01:15] I, I need to speak to you about— I had a
person call about their street, and the,
[1:01:22] uh, John was so good to talk to me about
it.
[1:01:25] And I talked to the lady, and she was very
pleased but very disappointed also.
[1:01:31] But there's only 2 people on that street
that has a problem with it.
[1:01:36] Everybody else doesn't know anything about
it.
[1:01:39] Okay.
[1:01:40] about it. So, but it's Dean Street.
[1:01:43] So, yep, but she was very kind and thanked
me,
[1:01:48] and John was helpful.
[1:01:51] That's it. Wonderful, thank you.
Councillor Babcock.
[1:01:54] I think it's a John night because I was
going to thank John as well because I had
[1:01:58] some residents concerned about paving
issues and speed on Washington Ave and
[1:02:03] Brunswick Ave and, you know, everywhere.
[1:02:05] So I just appreciate— I reached out to you
and city manager quite a bit last—
[1:02:10] this past month, so thank you for taking
care of those things.
[1:02:14] And it seems like everybody's happy, or
they met with you.
[1:02:17] I haven't heard otherwise, so thank you.
[1:02:19] Nothing to add.
[1:02:23] All right, thank you. Councilor Holmes.
[1:02:26] And all is well in South Gardner,
[1:02:28] and I just feel guilty I have nothing to
compliment John And the rest of you too,
[1:02:34] really. We do appreciate you all. But
thank you.
[1:02:38] Thank you. Uh, go ahead, Councilman.
[1:02:41] I do want to thank the fire department.
[1:02:43] They had a good stop on Pope Street, um, a
couple weeks ago,
[1:02:45] and we're fortunate that we have them here
to do that. So thank you, Chief.
[1:02:48] You're here.
[1:02:50] Yeah, I agree with that for sure.
[1:02:52] And in the woods, the fire in the woods
too, that was kind of scary for folks.
[1:02:59] So I would just echo what everybody said.
We love our paved street, Mr.
[1:03:05] Cameron, on High Holborn. It's beautiful.
[1:03:08] I keep thinking it's rained because the
street— when I look out the window,
[1:03:14] it's dark, but it's just beautiful.
[1:03:17] Councilors, I just want to ask real quick,
October 7th,
[1:03:22] we've got a couple councilors that can't
make it.
[1:03:26] Can everybody else make the meeting on
October 7th so we can sort that out. 3, 4.
[1:03:33] Okay.
[1:03:34] Okay. And Councilor Holmes, you good?
[1:03:36] Okay, great.
[1:03:38] Thanks, everybody. And welcome back to
school.
[1:03:41] I love the banner that says, you matter to
us.
[1:03:44] I think that was Healthy Communities of
the Capital Area,
[1:03:48] but I'm really appreciative that they,
[1:03:50] that they did that for our school staff
and students,
[1:03:54] and hopefully all the teachers everywhere
take heart in the positive messages from
[1:04:00] the community. So with that, we have a
couple executive sessions,
[1:04:04] and what we'll do is we'll clear the room
and we will take Executive Session B
[1:04:09] first, if everybody's okay with that,
[1:04:12] and then we'll take Executive We'll take
it to session A and we'll come out and
[1:04:17] vote, I think.
[1:04:18] Congratulations, Robert.
[1:04:20] Congratulations.
[1:04:21] Thank you, Robert.
[1:04:22] We're not coming back on the camera,
[1:04:26] but we will come out of session and we
will vote and the
[1:04:32] minutes will reflect our vote.
[1:04:35] Thank you.
[1:04:35] The meeting minutes.
[1:04:40] He'll do it.
[1:04:41] I'll do it.
[1:04:42] Yeah, thanks, Alyssa.
[1:04:43] I know they're here somewhere.