[5:20] Can we set the clock?
[5:21] >> All right.
[5:22] >> All members of the order, please rise
[5:24] and join me for the Pledge of
[5:25] Allegiance.
[5:28] » I pledge allegiance to the flag
[5:30] of the United States of America and to
[5:33] the republic for which it stands, one
[5:36] nation under God, indivisible, with
[5:39] liberty and justice for all.
[5:45] » All right, good evening everyone.
[5:51] Okay, we have uh no presentations or
[5:54] public hearings, so we can go right to
[5:57] our public comments. So, the public are
[5:59] welcome to use this time to make
[6:00] comments about city matters or items on
[6:02] the agenda
[6:03] that are not part of public hearing. If
[6:04] you wish to come forward, please limit
[6:05] your comments to 5 minutes or less.
[6:07] There is a time clock on your left.
[6:09] Uh that being said, come forward, state
[6:10] your name and address for the record,
[6:12] and the podium is now open.
[6:20] » Uh name's Eric Arnold. Uh address 294
[6:22] West Westoff Place here in Gardner.
[6:25] Um some of you might know me, remember
[6:27] me. Uh been here a while ago. I applied
[6:30] for the uh appointment a few years back.
[6:33] Um
[6:34] since then, um I've kind of spent time
[6:37] watching uh how the city city spends its
[6:39] money.
[6:40] Um tonight I wanted to bring up one of
[6:41] the things the city has spent money on
[6:43] um that I'd like to question. Uh right
[6:45] now, the Gardner Police Department is
[6:47] running a Flock system.
[6:49] Uh those are fixed cameras uh that
[6:51] photograph every vehicle that passes,
[6:52] log where and when, and stored in
[6:54] searchable database. The city uh the
[6:56] city has paid
[6:58] uh about $33,000 for the cameras and is
[7:01] now paying around $13,000 a year uh to
[7:03] keep the four of them running uh on a
[7:05] contract that will automatically renew
[7:07] on its own.
[7:09] Uh city could say that these cameras uh
[7:11] just read plates um for the police work,
[7:14] but the department already does that in
[7:15] the patrol cars that carry the Axon
[7:18] systems, and plate reading is a feature
[7:19] that um
[7:21] that contract already pays for. So,
[7:23] Flock isn't really filling a gap. Flock
[7:25] is a permanent, always-on record of
[7:27] where ordinary people go. Uh that is not
[7:30] plate reading. That is surveillance.
[7:33] >> [snorts]
[7:33] >> Set out to learn how it's governed
[7:35] through open records requests uh what
[7:37] that's like uh tells you as much as the
[7:39] cameras will.
[7:41] Um I've asked who can search the
[7:42] database, whether anyone audits those
[7:44] searches. Um, I pointed to the city in
[7:47] writing uh to the controlling Kansas
[7:49] case, which says an agency cannot defeat
[7:51] a records request by declining to run
[7:53] the report that produces that record.
[7:55] I've asked them to produce those records
[7:57] or state in writing when they cannot.
[7:59] They have at this point done neither.
[8:01] Their answer has been, "We are not in
[8:04] possession."
[8:05] About their own system that they log
[8:07] into with their own credentials on a
[8:09] contract that includes an audit feature.
[8:13] I asked which outside entities can use
[8:15] this data or reach our data. Not in
[8:17] possession. I've asked for governing
[8:19] policy. So, our policy governing this?
[8:22] There is none specific to the system,
[8:24] only generic city policy that never
[8:26] mentions Flock except in one case.
[8:29] The only spot license plate readers
[8:30] appear in any city policy is on the list
[8:32] of records that at this point the city
[8:34] has refused to release.
[8:36] And when I corrected the city on a law
[8:38] it was citing, it answered with the
[8:40] paywall, which is fully within its right
[8:42] to charge money.
[8:44] >> [snorts]
[8:45] >> However, the timing is interesting.
[8:47] I asked for emails with Flock. I have
[8:50] made that request before for emails and
[8:52] had that time had not been charged. This
[8:54] time, it came back with a $170 bill,
[8:57] most of it demanded up front before
[8:59] anyone even checks whether there are 10
[9:01] emails or 10,000 emails.
[9:04] Here's why we can't wait. This contract
[9:06] will renew itself automatically.
[9:08] Meanwhile, Flock has rewritten its
[9:10] standard terms at least four times in
[9:12] the last 7 months.
[9:14] It deleted its written promise to not
[9:16] sell consumer data. It now claims a
[9:18] perpetual license to keep using that
[9:21] data even after a city cancels.
[9:23] Gardner signed terms hold for now, but a
[9:25] contract that auto renews with a vendor
[9:28] rewriting the rules that fast is not
[9:30] something to re-up without ever looking
[9:32] at it.
[9:34] It's pretty wasteful on its face.
[9:35] Thousands of dollars in a year on
[9:38] autopilot for surveillance that
[9:39] duplicates the plate reading that we
[9:41] already pay for. Here's what I would ask
[9:43] you to hold on to. Is that not one of
[9:45] you voted for this, not one of you
[9:47] signed it, so not one of you has to
[9:49] defend it. This was done without you the
[9:51] same as it was done without me and the
[9:53] difference is that you guys can do
[9:54] something about it.
[9:56] >> [snorts]
[9:57] >> So, I'm asking three things. Suspend the
[10:00] system now while it has no policy and no
[10:02] oversight behind it.
[10:04] Serve notice of non-renewal so it does
[10:06] not renew on its own before you've had
[10:08] your say, and if this body does vote to
[10:10] keep it, put a real policy behind it
[10:13] first with the documented reason for
[10:15] every search and audits that the public
[10:17] can actually see, not the wall that I've
[10:19] spent weeks running into.
[10:22] But, I won't pretend that this is what I
[10:23] really want. What I want is much
[10:25] simpler. I want these cameras gone. The
[10:27] county and the state may run their own
[10:29] and I can't stop that. Gardner can. I'm
[10:32] asking you as my representatives to take
[10:34] us out of it.
[10:36] >> [snorts]
[10:36] >> This contract renews on its own unless
[10:38] you guys act. The only question tonight
[10:40] is whether it keeps running because
[10:41] nobody was willing to ask that it stop.
[10:44] I'm asking.
[10:45] And if anything that I've said tonight
[10:47] proves inaccurate, it is only because
[10:49] the city would not give me the records
[10:51] to get it right. Thank you.
[10:54] >> Mr. Arnold?
[11:03] » Uh
[11:04] Hello, ladies and gentlemen. I'm
[11:06] Steve Shue, 1841 Sycamore Court,
[11:09] Gardner, Kansas.
[11:10] Even though the council president might
[11:12] have wanted to get rid of me before the
[11:14] meeting and
[11:15] >> [laughter]
[11:16] >> I'm true I promise I'm not disruptive.
[11:19] Um I will echo what uh what uh um was just said about uh by
[11:25] Mr. Arnold about the the Flock cameras.
[11:27] Um I I'm going to speak more on the
[11:30] Fourth Amendment implications of such of
[11:32] such cameras.
[11:34] Um one of the issues that I've had and I
[11:36] don't have a lot of notes, so I'm kind
[11:37] of speaking uh out of you know,
[11:39] basically
[11:40] on you know, uh
[11:42] out of turn. I was actually I had a I
[11:44] had a laptop with some information and I
[11:45] didn't bring my my my charger, so that's
[11:48] all right.
[11:48] Um but basically what it comes down to
[11:50] is that these cameras because they're
[11:52] stationary and they are always recording
[11:53] 24/7 365 and passing that data along
[11:57] through
[11:58] uh through electronic means to
[12:00] uh other uh jurisdictions uh
[12:02] specifically through fusion centers
[12:04] primarily. Uh that information can be
[12:06] networked and basically create choose
[12:08] basically used to create a digital
[12:10] dossier on an individual's movements
[12:12] without their knowledge or consent.
[12:14] And so basically we're talking about a
[12:16] blatant violation of the Fourth
[12:17] Amendment right to unreasonable and
[12:19] intrusive searches and seizures without
[12:21] a warrant that's signed by a judge.
[12:23] Now one can say, "Well, well, that we
[12:25] can get that information through
[12:26] geolocation." Like, "Yes, absolutely,
[12:27] but you still need to have a a warrant
[12:30] signed by a judge in order to be able to
[12:31] access geolocation data. Even with the
[12:32] Kelsey Smith Act, which allows you to be
[12:35] allows law enforcement to compel cell
[12:37] phone companies within a
[12:39] for very short period of time of doing
[12:41] that of getting that information, they
[12:43] still have to do a retroactive
[12:44] administrative warrant in order to be
[12:45] able to justify that request. Here there
[12:48] is no oversight. There is no safeguards.
[12:50] There is no procedure to prevent that
[12:53] from happening. And that means it's ripe
[12:55] for abuse. And I can just bring up a
[12:57] couple of cases here in in Kansas that where this has happened. In Kansas
[13:00] City, Kansas, well, Lieutenant Victor
[13:02] Hilar uh
[13:04] actually used the Flock system to track
[13:06] his estranged wife between September
[13:08] 23rd and October 23rd in 2022.
[13:11] Uh he was arrested in
[13:13] on October 26th, pleaded guilty to a
[13:15] misdemeanor computer crime and stalking.
[13:17] Um it's also happened in other states.
[13:19] In Pennsylvania, uh officer Michael
[13:22] McSherry in 2021 pleaded guilty to
[13:24] stalking. In Niceville, Florida, Florida
[13:27] off former officer Cody Hall in 2026
[13:29] pleaded no contest after using the
[13:30] department's spot system to track
[13:31] another officer's movements.
[13:33] Um as you can see, this this can and has
[13:36] been abused in the past by other
[13:37] jurisdictions and even in Kansas where
[13:39] we live.
[13:40] Um there's a most recent case that
[13:41] actually took place um just up the road
[13:43] in Bonner Springs.
[13:45] Um detective uh Kyle Rector Rector, and I believe this was actually
[13:49] in the local news, uh allegedly used
[13:51] readers to track his estranged wife and
[13:52] two men he suspected were her partners.
[13:55] Um this has been charged. It's an
[13:56] alleged violation, um but it has not
[13:59] been a conviction in that yet, but it's
[14:00] still in the system and will be going to
[14:02] trial. So, as you can see, this is
[14:04] something we have to get a rein on. Uh
[14:06] these AI these AI-enabled cameras can
[14:08] actually create uh because of the fact
[14:11] that they're being networked and
[14:12] integrated with other cameras across
[14:14] other jurisdictions, can be used to
[14:15] create a digital dossier on an
[14:17] individual's movements, which could
[14:19] ultimately be used to curtail an
[14:20] individual's movements in the future.
[14:22] This is absolutely wrong. It is
[14:24] absolutely a violation of the Fourth
[14:26] Amendment and absolutely needs to be
[14:27] stopped. And if we can do it here at the
[14:29] local level,
[14:30] we can't necessarily control what the
[14:31] state and the county are doing, as just
[14:33] as Eric said, but we can absolutely
[14:36] control what happens within our borders.
[14:37] I hope and pray that this body, which I
[14:40] was a part of for 12 years, will make
[14:42] that decision and get these things
[14:44] offline. Thank you.
[14:46] >> Thank you, Mr. Shute.
[15:02] » Good evening, Mayor, council members. Uh
[15:04] my name is Alan Plesberg. My residence
[15:07] is in the northeast area of Gardner,
[15:09] Kansas, 520 Farmer Way, 66030.
[15:14] Um
[15:16] a comment with a little different tone
[15:18] than the previous two for this evening.
[15:20] >> [clears throat]
[15:22] >> It has to do with a report I made last
[15:24] year having to do with our city
[15:26] fireworks policy.
[15:28] I would like to take this opportunity to
[15:30] thank the mayor and the council members
[15:32] for taking note of my report last July
[15:35] during a meeting
[15:36] that fireworks were being discharged on
[15:38] Gardner Municipal Airport property.
[15:41] Um I mentioned my concern at the time
[15:44] because I am a member of the glider
[15:46] club.
[15:46] >> up a little bit, sir, please?
[15:48] >> I'm a member of the glider club that
[15:52] uh rents hangars and operates out of
[15:55] Gardner Municipal Airport. And my report
[15:58] indicated that there was fireworks
[16:01] activity not in agreement with the city
[16:03] ordinance regarding discharge on public
[16:06] property as well as presenting a
[16:08] possible hazard
[16:10] to the aircraft hangars nearby,
[16:12] aircraft, and aviation fuel pump.
[16:15] Um it also generated an hour-long task
[16:17] for a city employee to clean up after it
[16:20] last year.
[16:23] I suggested the report it would be
[16:25] helpful for the city to generate signs
[16:27] that indicated that it was against the
[16:29] ordinance and perhaps some additional
[16:32] patrol engine the area.
[16:34] I'm pleased to report at this time that
[16:36] the signs and other city efforts last
[16:39] month seem to have had a positive effect
[16:42] at the municipal airport. Jim Holgravers
[16:45] told me that there was no debris
[16:48] to clean up on property this
[16:50] year.
[16:51] He attends the airport facility daily
[16:54] and mentioned to me he thought the signs
[16:56] had a positive effect.
[17:00] Maybe the July 4th weather and the rain
[17:02] showers the late afternoon affected
[17:05] people's their eagerness to light them,
[17:07] but it's a welcome change from an hour's
[17:10] worth of cleanup duty to none at all.
[17:14] Um
[17:15] so
[17:18] it [clears throat] helped us protect the
[17:19] aviation property
[17:21] and the hangers we use out there.
[17:24] As a side note, there were signs along
[17:26] Moonlight and Pharma over here near my
[17:28] residence, but there was fair amount of
[17:29] debris in along my street and the house.
[17:33] I still had to clean up things from my
[17:35] driveway and yard. The casual approach
[17:37] to the ordinance is still a trend in
[17:39] some parts of the city.
[17:41] But again, thank you for your attention
[17:43] to the city's airport.
[17:45] Mayor, council members, thank you for
[17:47] your time and attention this evening.
[17:49] I'll provide a
[17:50] copy of my remarks to Mr. Hedley, who's
[17:53] the airport manager, and available for
[17:56] comments or questions if desired. Thank
[17:59] you.
[18:00] >> Thank you, sir.
[18:19] » How y'all doing?
[18:21] Mr. Mayor and council, thank you very
[18:22] much for having us. My name is Andy
[18:23] Akright. This is my son, Robbie.
[18:26] Um and we are now
[18:28] proud residents of Gardner. Finally, we
[18:31] just moved in May.
[18:33] So, uh 30200
[18:35] West 185th
[18:37] Street. Uh so, yeah. Uh that's good. Oh,
[18:41] real quick, on the fireworks thing,
[18:45] y'all are crazy. I'm just going to say
[18:46] like there's a lot of fireworks here,
[18:48] but it was amazing that they just
[18:49] stopped. Like at the
[18:52] that night, just like everybody knew they had a good thing and
[18:55] it could get taken away if they broke
[18:56] the rules, so they just stopped. Uh so,
[18:59] an intense amount of fireworks, but
[19:01] everybody seemed to follow the rules, so
[19:03] that's cool. Uh so, appreciate that.
[19:05] Um
[19:07] so, we're here uh about parks and rec.
[19:10] And I apologize that it's so late, but
[19:12] moving was crazy and all that stuff. So,
[19:15] just want to thank you all for another
[19:17] great season of soccer
[19:19] in the spring. Fall season's about to
[19:21] start up. Um so, it's been a really good
[19:24] time. The last time I was here, I asked
[19:27] about holes in Gardner Elementary soccer
[19:29] field and was told to go to the school
[19:32] board or to the, you know,
[19:35] schools and I'll let you know that like
[19:38] two emails and boom, they fixed it. It
[19:40] was awesome. Um so, that was all fixed.
[19:42] So, thank you guys for that. And thank
[19:45] you to the schools for partnering so
[19:47] well with us. Um we also do basketball
[19:51] and they do a great job with the gyms.
[19:54] It's just a matter of telling them, you
[19:55] know, if they if something needs
[19:57] improving. So, it's very cool.
[19:59] Um what I'd like to highlight
[20:01] today is the cost. So, thank you again
[20:05] for your funding.
[20:06] The cost in these times, I'm sure you
[20:10] know people are budgeting and seeing
[20:12] what they're going to spend money on,
[20:13] what they're
[20:14] going to try and use. It's only $80 to
[20:18] play soccer. That's seven games and a
[20:21] jersey and two months of practice. So,
[20:24] if you compare that to going to the
[20:25] movies or going to a Royals game,
[20:28] like woo, 80 bucks is nothing. Um and
[20:31] what what that does is already
[20:34] the Parks and Rec gives an opportunity
[20:36] for people of all abilities to come and
[20:39] to play, which is a big thing that you
[20:41] don't get in other leagues where you can
[20:43] be on a team, but you might not actually
[20:45] play.
[20:46] Um you get to play all ability levels,
[20:48] but also economic levels, too. When
[20:51] you're thinking about, you know,
[20:53] what are we going to spend our money on
[20:55] and can we do it? And it gives an
[20:57] opportunity to those people who maybe
[21:01] couldn't afford a premier team or
[21:03] whatnot to to play a sport. And I really
[21:06] appreciate you funding that so that we
[21:11] can keep those costs low to keep
[21:14] giving the opportunity to kids. So,
[21:16] thank you very much. It's from
[21:17] 4-years-old through eighth grade. When
[21:20] you get to fifth grade, we don't have
[21:22] enough teams to make a whole league. So,
[21:25] we play with um
[21:27] in the Tri-County League. So, I
[21:29] appreciate that they figured out a way
[21:32] to still have a way to for kids to play
[21:35] in Parks and Rec that um
[21:37] you know, might not otherwise. So, but I
[21:40] know you want to hear from Robbie. So,
[21:43] Robbie's got three things for you.
[21:46] » Some of the things I like about playing
[21:49] soccer is like the
[21:52] being like put being able to like play
[21:55] with my friends like after school kind
[21:59] of
[22:00] like stuff like the fun stuff we do at
[22:04] practice and like
[22:06] just like playing games, too.
[22:10] Then some things that it's helped me
[22:12] learn is like being a good leader.
[22:16] Being able to work as a team better and
[22:19] good sportsmanship.
[22:25] » All right, so
[22:26] camera's right there, right? All right,
[22:28] so signing up's officially kind of ended
[22:31] yesterday, but
[22:32] you have a late fee. It's only 95 bucks.
[22:35] So, it's a $15 late fee and that's still
[22:37] seven games, two months of practice, and
[22:40] a jersey. You can still sign up. So,
[22:42] sign up. It's a good time. Volunteer
[22:44] coaches and great things. And with the
[22:47] Blue Jays with our team, this will be
[22:49] the 11th season and we have always
[22:51] followed three rules and they are we
[22:54] play
[22:54] >> hard.
[22:55] >> We play
[22:56] >> fair.
[22:56] >> And we have
[22:57] >> fun.
[22:57] >> All right, thank you guys. Appreciate
[22:59] it.
[23:00] >> Thank you.
[23:09] » All right. Thank you everyone.
[23:12] We will
[23:14] move on to consent agenda. Is there any
[23:15] item on the consent agenda Council like
[23:17] to remove?
[23:18] >> Number five.
[23:20] >> I hear motion for consent agenda items
[23:22] number one through four.
[23:24] >> So moved.
[23:24] >> Second.
[23:26] >> Motion Baldwin second Eaton we approve
[23:29] items one through four. All in favor?
[23:31] Opposed? Stan I'm sorry Council
[23:35] person Johnson is joining us by Zoom I
[23:37] believe correct?
[23:39] >> Yes I'm here.
[23:40] >> Yes thank you for joining us. I I
[23:41] apologize to say that.
[23:43] >> Oh no worries.
[23:44] >> You're wondering what the voice is.
[23:46] Um okay. So consent agenda items one
[23:50] through four pass.
[23:51] Uh consent agenda item number five
[23:53] consider approving a budget amendment to
[23:54] include mandatory overseas import
[23:56] tariffs for a substation or transformer
[23:58] purchase.
[24:00] >> So my question is
[24:02] the amount is approximately 12.8% of the
[24:06] purchase
[24:08] and the tariff is 15% used to be 25. So
[24:11] I just wanted to make sure that whatever
[24:13] number we're multiplying to get to that
[24:16] number is actually the 15% and not 25%
[24:20] now that it's changed back.
[24:22] >> Uh
[24:23] the amount is the amount that's provided
[24:26] by the supplier of the tariff basically
[24:28] that will be the amount of the amount of
[24:31] the tariff that WE SHOULD SEE.
[24:37] » I OBJECT.
[24:39] >> [laughter]
[24:41] >> YEAH I'M SURPRISED BY that too.
[24:46] » So that's the max up to that maximum
[24:47] amount.
[24:48] >> Yeah it is the maximum amount. We don't
[24:50] have the exact tariff amount. We will
[24:53] not know that till the 18th of September
[24:57] and it's the timing that we need to pay
[25:00] this or have this approval and pay that
[25:02] tariff amount, it's going to
[25:07] not fall under. I guess that's the best
[25:09] way to phrase it.
[25:11] So, the amount that I
[25:12] proposed to you is the maximum amount
[25:15] that we should see for the tariff.
[25:19] » So, it's not to exceed.
[25:20] >> Not to exceed.
[25:21] >> And we're comfortable We're pretty
[25:22] positive on this.
[25:24] Okay. All right, then I'm good.
[25:29] All right. Any other comments on uh
[25:32] consent agenda item five?
[25:36] Do I hear a motion?
[25:37] >> So moved.
[25:38] >> Okay.
[25:39] Uh motion Baldwin, uh second McNair.
[25:43] We approve a budget amendment to include
[25:45] mandatory overseas import tariffs for
[25:47] the substation for transformer purchase.
[25:50] All in favor?
[25:51] >> Aye.
[25:52] >> Sorry. All opposed?
[25:55] Sustain, uh consent agenda item number
[25:58] five passes.
[26:01] Uh planning and zoning consent.
[26:04] Council like to discuss that?
[26:07] I hear a motion to approve.
[26:09] >> So moved.
[26:09] >> Second.
[26:10] >> Motion Baldwin, second Deaton. We
[26:13] approve planning and zoning consent. All
[26:15] in favor?
[26:16] >> Aye.
[26:18] >> All opposed? Sustain, planning and
[26:19] zoning consent passes.
[26:22] Uh that does it for new business. We do
[26:24] have
[26:26] We're going to schedule an executive
[26:27] session of about 10 minutes for an after
[26:29] this meeting for attorney-client
[26:31] privilege.
[26:32] Um
[26:33] but, we'll move into council
[26:35] >> Yeah, it's still part of the meeting. It's not
[26:38] We're not going to adjourn. I just
[26:40] >> Oh, yeah. You said after the meeting, so
[26:42] >> Oh, sorry.
[26:43] After new business, then.
[26:45] Business after this.
[26:48] Sorry, Skip.
[26:51] Um
[26:52] okay, so let's move to council updates.
[26:54] Um, start uh let's Chief Aaron, are you ready?
[26:57] >> Sure.
[26:58] >> Okay, I don't know if you want to speak
[26:59] a little bit about the Flock cameras for
[27:00] the
[27:02] >> Sure. Um,
[27:03] right now we have one stationary Flock
[27:06] camera deployed.
[27:08] Um,
[27:09] that's it.
[27:10] For Flock in the city.
[27:12] Um,
[27:13] but and we are also going through
[27:16] accreditation, so we're looking at
[27:17] policy.
[27:19] And we're looking at every single
[27:21] policies we go through, so I'm
[27:22] interested in updating policy. We just
[27:24] started the current process of doing
[27:26] that now.
[27:27] General IT
[27:28] uh covers most of our software service.
[27:31] But I completely agree that in some
[27:34] technologies having a more robust policy
[27:36] would be a better thing.
[27:38] So, that's one of the things that we're
[27:39] going to look to do. When you ask for
[27:41] the quarter request, that's what we have
[27:42] right now for policy.
[27:44] Um,
[27:45] tomorrow night is night out at the pool
[27:49] from 6:00 to 8:00. It's a It's a
[27:50] national thing.
[27:51] Um,
[27:52] it's community policing driven, forward
[27:55] facing. Basically, we're going to cook
[27:57] hot dogs. Every member of the public is
[27:59] invited. Pool's open from 6:00 to 8:00.
[28:01] Please come join us.
[28:03] Hot dogs,
[28:04] meet our officers, get a chance to talk
[28:06] to them, and hang out for a couple
[28:07] hours, and utilize the
[28:09] Sure.
[28:11] >> Thank you.
[28:13] >> Wait, uh can I ask uh
[28:15] on the Flock, when when is Do you know when Off
[28:19] >> Off the air.
[28:20] >> when the renewal will be for that or
[28:24] » Not off the top of my head. I do not.
[28:26] >> Okay.
[28:26] >> Next next year is the renewal
[28:29] on it.
[28:30] >> Okay.
[28:34] » Uh Renee.
[28:36] >> Um, I [clears throat] just want to
[28:37] mention that we have an opening on our
[28:39] planning commission. We've had our um
[28:42] position posted for 2 weeks, and are we
[28:45] to have any applications, so we're
[28:47] hoping that we'll find a few new people.
[28:52] » That finance?
[28:54] >> Yes. Um we heard comments from council
[28:56] last year during the budget process, and
[28:58] we took those to heart. We got a draft
[29:01] of the budget book online already.
[29:03] So, we're earlier than usual.
[29:05] Um it's got all the core elements, and
[29:08] if we have another version come out with
[29:09] some more um sections of it, we'll add
[29:11] it up later on. But, you can go out and
[29:13] see basically all the core information
[29:15] of the budget.
[29:19] » Nothing to add.
[29:22] >> Administrator. I mean, sorry. Sorry.
[29:25] >> Nothing from me.
[29:29] » Dave?
[29:30] >> Nothing.
[29:31] >> Jason?
[29:31] >> Nothing from me.
[29:34] >> Ellen?
[29:35] >> Nothing from me.
[29:37] >> Administrator?
[29:37] >> So, we had a request for a supplemental
[29:40] budget report that lists
[29:43] expenses over 50,000, and Matt and I are
[29:47] putting that together, and it'll be out.
[29:49] I'll send it out to council sometime
[29:50] this week.
[29:55] » Councilperson Johnson?
[29:58] >> Um just a couple couple things. One,
[30:00] thank you to Renee for getting me set up
[30:02] on Zoom. I appreciate it. Um thank you
[30:04] also to everybody who came and spoke
[30:06] tonight. As always, we appreciate. Um I
[30:09] know I appreciate hearing from you and
[30:11] what's important to you and what's on
[30:12] your mind. So, thank you for coming.
[30:14] Um and then to everybody, just a
[30:17] reminder that tomorrow is the primary
[30:19] day, so please go vote if you haven't
[30:21] already.
[30:22] Um it's important, so just go get it
[30:24] done. Thank you.
[30:27] >> Thank you.
[30:29] Councilman McNair?
[30:31] >> Yes. I have three items.
[30:34] Renee, could you put some photos up for
[30:35] me, please?
[30:38] Uh
[30:39] this was Friday during the afternoon.
[30:42] And uh
[30:44] our granddaughters, picture them on the
[30:45] in the right, uh had a lemonade stand.
[30:48] And Gardner Police Department heard
[30:50] about it, and our officers responded in force,
[30:54] and it was awesome.
[30:56] Uh these guys,
[30:57] you know,
[30:58] came out.
[31:00] They saw our grand They made it uh they
[31:03] helped our grandkids.
[31:05] Uh
[31:05] they were very good as far as
[31:08] uh showing up and showing how community
[31:10] policing
[31:12] is at its best.
[31:14] And
[31:15] uh just want to say thank you for making
[31:17] our granddaughters' day.
[31:18] Uh
[31:19] it was it was an awesome thing.
[31:21] Uh
[31:23] next one is uh I want to go uh I don't
[31:26] know if everybody made it to the county
[31:28] fair this last week or not, but it was a phenomenal fair this year.
[31:32] Uh
[31:33] and kudos Mike Brock and his new fair
[31:36] board.
[31:38] Uh
[31:38] Mike is the new president of the fair
[31:40] board, and there was significant work
[31:42] put into the fair this year. I I noticed
[31:45] a massive difference.
[31:47] Uh
[31:47] again, uh Gardner Police Department and
[31:50] Johnson County Sheriff
[31:51] get a big shout-out. Uh
[31:53] they did a phenomenal job at the fair.
[31:56] Uh
[31:58] coverage was excellent,
[32:00] and I just
[32:01] generally appreciated it. Uh I was going
[32:04] to comment on Block 200 this last night.
[32:07] And the only thing else I have to do is
[32:08] uh
[32:09] is a little bit on spending. Thank you
[32:11] for getting the
[32:12] $50,000 of
[32:14] uh I think that uh
[32:16] as we go forward,
[32:18] uh
[32:19] seeing that we don't have a lot of
[32:20] commercial and industrial, we're going
[32:21] to need to be watching the budgets
[32:23] fairly close.
[32:25] And
[32:26] I'd like to see if we can get to the
[32:28] point to where
[32:29] we don't spend as much,
[32:32] uh
[32:32] and maybe put some of that back into
[32:35] CMP.
[32:36] Uh
[32:37] and uh not have to go out of
[32:40] $10 million in a meeting of mine.
[32:42] That made me
[32:43] kind of back
[32:45] and have some cash. So, that's all I
[32:47] have.
[32:48] Thanks.
[32:49] >> Thanks again, Chief.
[32:51] >> Councilman Bean?
[32:52] >> Uh,
[32:53] I'll speak to
[32:55] um, Mr. Fosberg's uh, comments on uh,
[32:57] the fireworks. I did hear back from
[33:00] uh, the uh, school board as well. Um, or
[33:03] from the the school district. They
[33:05] appreciated the signs. They said they
[33:06] uh,
[33:07] seem to have the desired effect. So, the
[33:10] ones out at the airport also had the
[33:12] desired effect. Maybe it was the
[33:13] weather, too, but we'll take it whatever
[33:15] we can get, and we'll
[33:17] uh, try and take another step forward
[33:19] next year. I know been talking with uh, the Chief and um, you the Mayor and
[33:25] uh, with some ideas for next year. So,
[33:26] we'll we'll get those out there. I'll
[33:28] send out my notes eventually. And uh, can't say it enough, go vote. Uh,
[33:33] that's it.
[33:35] >> Thank you.
[33:36] >> First question.
[33:37] >> Yeah, so I have some questions about the
[33:39] flock stuff, and I'm not super familiar
[33:42] with all of that.
[33:45] Um, but so we have one camera that's
[33:48] ours. I know there's several that are
[33:51] the state's and the counties.
[33:53] Um,
[33:55] what is the difference between the
[33:57] stationary flock camera and the LPRs,
[33:59] and why do we feel like having the
[34:02] in the cars, and why do we feel like
[34:03] having the one camera is beneficial to
[34:06] us as opposed to the cars
[34:08] only?
[34:09] >> Sure. Um,
[34:11] so generally with the fleet on fleet
[34:13] ALPRs
[34:14] that are in the vehicles, as the
[34:17] officers are going to calls for service
[34:19] or patrolling, that's going to alert
[34:21] them on a tag, car stolen, tag stolen,
[34:25] there's an Amber Alert, Silver Alert,
[34:26] missing person,
[34:28] uh, warrants are associated with the
[34:31] vehicles. So, generally that's the
[34:32] purpose of what we call fleet ALPR.
[34:36] The one was installed in
[34:37] That was before I got here. Um
[34:40] and I I won't disclose at this point in
[34:42] time the intersection, but generally it
[34:44] is to look at um if you have a suspect
[34:47] potentially leaving an area so that
[34:49] you're able to track uh the general
[34:51] direction of movement of where the
[34:53] suspect went
[34:54] uh in relation to a crime.
[34:57] If they're stationary, obviously, then
[34:58] you're going to be able to see the
[35:00] general
[35:01] area of movement. If they're in the
[35:02] cars, the cars are moving, so
[35:05] you're going to get locations, but it's
[35:07] not going to show you the exact location
[35:09] they were at at that time saying they
[35:10] were at that intersection at this point
[35:12] in time or at the next intersection at
[35:14] this point in time. Maybe after uh
[35:17] some type of crime is reported if that
[35:18] makes sense. Does that answer your
[35:20] question?
[35:20] >> Yeah, yeah.
[35:21] And then so then my next question is
[35:23] it's been in before you got here, so
[35:26] several years. Have we ever audited that
[35:29] to make sure that nobody internally has
[35:31] abused that system?
[35:34] >> I asked for when I got here to go ahead
[35:36] and give me an updated uh audit. I don't
[35:38] know what was done prior to that, I'll
[35:40] be honest with you. I think
[35:42] most of the time it's complaint-driven,
[35:44] meaning someone complains about the
[35:46] situations that you brought up earlier,
[35:49] and then that's what causes the audit.
[35:50] Those are things that I'll want to look
[35:52] at as we update policy.
[35:54] >> Yeah, if we decide to
[35:55] keep the camera, I would like a policy
[35:57] of like auditing cuz I might not know if
[36:00] somebody is watching me, you know, and
[36:03] so if it's all only complaint-driven,
[36:04] that's a little bit concerning. I'd like
[36:06] to see something in the policy of auditing. And do you know right now
[36:11] who is able to access that and the rules
[36:15] they have to follow to be able to access
[36:16] that data?
[36:17] >> For the flock.
[36:19] >> Specific to the audit or just using the
[36:21] system?
[36:21] >> Using the system. If if I want to look
[36:23] at a license plate can any of our
[36:26] officers do that?
[36:26] >> All sworn officers have the ability to
[36:28] yes, to access it. Um it follows the
[36:31] same rules under NCIC and KCJ. If I were
[36:34] to run a tag manually, then I have to
[36:36] have a reason to do it. And it's the
[36:39] same with the system. You have to have a
[36:41] reason,
[36:42] uh specific purpose to run a query.
[36:49] » Thank you, Mr. Bryant.
[36:50] >> Yes, ma'am.
[36:52] Mr. Bryant.
[36:53] >> How many Flock cameras are in the city
[36:56] limits that aren't the city's?
[36:59] >> To my knowledge, just we just have just
[37:02] one.
[37:02] >> Okay.
[37:03] >> To the best of my knowledge, there is
[37:04] one Flock
[37:05] camera, to the best of my knowledge,
[37:08] uh in this city. We own that one, but I
[37:10] don't believe there's any other Flock
[37:11] ones in the city limits.
[37:13] >> Okay. And then
[37:14] as my
[37:15] 8-year-old would figure out the wiggle
[37:17] room here, any other brand cameras?
[37:19] >> [laughter]
[37:20] >> Yes, that belong to the county.
[37:23] And it's they are not Flock.
[37:25] >> Okay. And what are our
[37:30] rights, if you will, not the right word,
[37:31] but um prerogative, if we don't want the
[37:35] county's cameras in the city?
[37:40] » That's probably above my pay grade, pay
[37:41] grade, sir.
[37:42] >> Ryan?
[37:44] >> [laughter]
[37:45] >> I have to look at it. Um I mean, if it's on our equipment, um
[37:50] >> Cuz it's probably on one of our poles,
[37:52] right?
[37:52] >> Right. I mean, we we should have the
[37:54] right to control that, um but
[37:56] that
[37:58] may fall into, you know, right of way
[38:01] use. I mean, like we we can't
[38:05] just simply tell people who want to use
[38:07] our right of way no in many in many
[38:10] instances.
[38:11] Um
[38:12] I've
[38:13] never had that question before on the on the a governmental use of our
[38:19] right of way. Um
[38:21] so I I'd probably want to look into it a
[38:23] little bit more.
[38:24] >> Okay. Well, then I don't guess I have
[38:26] any more on that tonight cuz sounds like
[38:28] we have a few things to look into. So.
[38:30] Okay. Um
[38:33] That's what I had on that. Um I'm glad
[38:35] to see that the signs made a difference
[38:37] with the fireworks. Um
[38:39] you know, maybe it was the weather,
[38:40] maybe it wasn't, but like you said, I
[38:43] whatever
[38:44] benefit we got.
[38:45] Um
[38:46] and it's nice that it saved us an hour
[38:47] of cleanup out there. It's great.
[38:50] Um
[38:51] and uh
[38:52] and the uh
[38:53] keep uh that positive attitude. I mean,
[38:55] you're always eager and excited to come
[38:57] up here. So, glad to have you and keep
[38:59] coaching.
[39:00] All right. That's all I got.
[39:03] >> And I would just say, you know,
[39:05] sounds like there's a lot of questions
[39:06] about the the cameras and fog. So, maybe
[39:10] uh the next week or so, why don't
[39:12] you email to Jim
[39:13] and
[39:14] I'll let you think of more questions or
[39:17] things you're curious about.
[39:18] >> We can
[39:20] before it's renewed, come in and do a
[39:22] presentation and get, you know, council
[39:24] approval for the renewal.
[39:26] So, we can do that
[39:27] >> do that towards the
[39:28] >> with plenty of time to be able to
[39:29] cancel. We'll have to look at
[39:30] cancellation period stuff. We can do an
[39:33] actual council approval on that renewal.
[39:36] >> Can we look into before that when it
[39:38] does renew like cuz if that's in 11
[39:40] months, that's a really long time.
[39:42] Obviously, we can't, you know, whatever.
[39:44] But then can you send out the current
[39:47] policy? I know it's just the generic
[39:49] policy and then maybe like a timeline of
[39:51] when we're going to write a new
[39:54] policy or look at that?
[39:59] » Yes, ma'am.
[39:59] >> Thank you.
[40:00] >> I think that that's kind of the idea
[40:01] that we're going
[40:03] >> Yeah.
[40:05] >> One of the questions that I
[40:06] I'd have is
[40:08] do we do we know what if any other
[40:11] agencies or entities
[40:13] that our data goes to or could be used
[40:14] for?
[40:18] And you may not know that. We can
[40:20] >> I mean, I think this Flock is like a national
[40:24] >> It's It's over 100,000 cameras.
[40:26] >> Yeah.
[40:26] So, there's 120,000
[40:28] >> They're tied into universities. They're
[40:29] tied into
[40:30] school systems.
[40:32] Uh
[40:33] attorney general offices
[40:34] >> Right.
[40:35] >> insurance companies
[40:36] Uh anybody can basically buy this
[40:39] information.
[40:40] >> Yeah, I'd like to kind of have an idea
[40:42] what our exposure is.
[40:44] If I may
[40:45] >> Just one clarification. There is I know
[40:47] there's third-party
[40:49] private businesses that purchase it.
[40:51] They don't get our information. They
[40:53] can't get our information because it's
[40:55] protected by NCIC and Casey changes.
[40:57] Now, to that point, if there's 10 other
[41:00] law enforcement agencies willing to
[41:02] share that that information, then yes.
[41:05] But they can't go to a private entity.
[41:08] Like you'll see them at a Walmart or
[41:11] other businesses. They don't get
[41:15] anything that's law enforcement. How
[41:16] come law enforcement
[41:18] access those if they grant them access?
[41:20] Yes.
[41:21] >> But Chief, I guess that's I guess what I
[41:23] was asking is for example I'm just being
[41:26] hypothetical here. So, let's say you made weekly trips to
[41:31] maybe
[41:32] uh Nebraska or Iowa or something like
[41:34] that. And the cameras started picking
[41:36] you up there and your insurance company
[41:38] buys information.
[41:39] And now they know that you're driving
[41:41] maybe 20,000 mi a year and
[41:44] maybe your policy is rated at 10,000 mi
[41:46] a year.
[41:47] Uh they're getting information feed
[41:49] about where your car is and that has
[41:51] been.
[41:52] Uh this stuff is so detailed they create
[41:54] a fingerprint of every car.
[41:56] Uh
[41:58] It's dents, scratches,
[42:00] bumper stickers.
[42:02] You name it. That's how this system is
[42:04] flagged to make sure the individual car.
[42:07] So, uh
[42:09] They can track movement of just about
[42:11] any vehicle for a crossing guard.
[42:14] >> Yeah, we can gather information on what
[42:16] the information is used for and
[42:18] >> Sure.
[42:19] >> what the policy is and bring that before
[42:20] council.
[42:21] >> That would be great. Thank you.
[42:24] » Okay, I have nothing further.
[42:27] Uh but we do have an executive session.
[42:31] >> [clears throat]
[42:32] >> Do we hear a motion to go into executive
[42:34] session?
[42:35] >> So moved.
[42:36] >> Second.
[42:37] >> Motion Baldwin, second McNair. We go
[42:40] into session at 7:38, returning at 7:48.
[42:44] All in favor?
[42:45] >> Aye.
[42:47] >> All opposed? Abstain?
[42:50] We're in executive session.
[42:55] » Thank you.
[49:54] » Mhm.
[53:34] » I will get you my card, man.
[53:35] >> All right.
[53:36] >> It is 7:48. I'll entertain a motion to
[53:38] meet.
[53:39] >> You're welcome.
[53:40] >> So moved.
[53:40] >> Baldwin.
[53:41] >> You're welcome.
[53:41] >> Second.
[53:42] >> Motion by Baldwin, second by D'Eletto,
[53:44] we're in regular session. All in favor?
[53:45] >> Aye.
[53:49] » Uh do I hear a motion to adjourn?
[53:51] >> So moved.
[53:51] >> Second.
[53:52] >> Motion by McKinney, second by D'Eletto,
[53:53] we adjourn. All in favor?
[53:54] >> Aye.
[53:56] >> All opposed? Abstain?
[53:57] We are adjourned. Thank you everyone.