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All

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right. Good morning, everybody. We have a work session this morning on workers comp for Garfield County. We'll start off with roll call. Commissioner Jacobson. Present.

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here. Commissioner Marks out on a health leave. All right. Let's start with

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One nation, under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

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If you'd have a moment of silence in your own way,

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okay, thank you.

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Thank you very much.

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We have just one item on the work session.

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And that is workers' comp for Garfield County.

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And I'll turn it over to County Manager for Johnson for introductions and to get our work session started.

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Sure. Thank you.

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Good morning, commissioners.

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As you said, we've got a work session this morning,

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exclusively on Workman's comp insurance for the county.

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And just to go back in time, back in January of this year,

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the board set out its policy objectives.

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And one of those policy objectives was to evaluate Workman's

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workers comp as well as property liability cap for the county.

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So we took that charge seriously with Heather Beatty,

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myself, Jamaica Watts, Scott Hendrickson, and Jessica Roberts formed a team to evaluate

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this on your behalf, and so we've taken the bulk of this year to work through that.

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We realized most of the way through the year that because of the work that it took,

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workmen's comp seemed to be really what we needed to push forward with right now and separate

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property liability out.

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And so we went out to bid to bring on a broker, which is glimmered insurance.

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That was, they were successful in that effort and so they are, had they have been working

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with us and have brought in in terms of a quote, pinnacle to work alongside them to present

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to you this morning.

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CETSI has been also a partner in this effort.

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They hopefully are on Zoom, I'm not on Zoom just yet, but they are also going to present

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commissioners after this group presents, so it's going to be a two part presentation.

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So that way you can ask questions as you want, evaluate it as you'd like, it's a work session, so no decisions are made today.

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But know that your staffs work really hard, Heather in her office in particular have done a great deep dive in a lot of these things.

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And it's very familiar with how this works as well as Jessica Roberts, our HR director is not quite here yet.

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So we're excited to have them present to you and work through your questions and see what's best for Garfield County.

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No decision is made today, but why don't you go through the decision-making process?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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So given the timing of this issue, if the board, well, let me say it this way, today no decisions are made.

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And then when you take up your next business meeting, which is the second of December?

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It's Monday.

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It's Monday, yeah.

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But I don't know if you want to kick it out until December.

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Right.

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You won't be able to make a decision until you get to your next regular.

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It's not an agenda right now, but you've got three meetings in December.

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The idea is the soonest you can, the better, if you decide to make a change so

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that there's ramp up so that when January 1 hits, you are insured and we all know what we're doing.

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And that gives this team enough time to help us get there, should you want to go there.

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That's the idea.

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So that's the process.

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Yes, thank you.

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That's helpful.

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that help both commissioners it's kind of what it is all right hey with that was let's have

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introductions and then we'll let you start with your presentation yes so I'm Nettie Avery

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Glenwood Insurance I am the producer on the account kind of the project manager and I'm here

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today with some of my team we are supported by more and I'll go through that but I have been a

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Glenwood Insurance for 35 years I specialize in large commercial and we have clients in the public

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entities sector. So we are familiar with how diverse the public entity is.

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Tom Jensen. I'm the lost control advisor with Glenwood insurance. I've been with Glenwood

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for about two and a half years. Before I heard of that, I was in a similar role with

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the pinnacle assurance. In my role, I really am the point of contact for all safety,

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lost control, data, looking at ways to optimize the plan and help keep workers safe.

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Mindy shoe. I am the account executive on NETI Avery's team. I have two NETIs, did you say

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that correct? No, Mindy. Mindy. Mindy, okay. All right. Thank you. All right. All right.

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And so we let Pinnacle introduce themselves as they go as they present or do want that now. Let's

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do that. Let's do that. Introduce yourselves as you come forward and present. Okay. Okay. That's

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Great.

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So little, I know we only have 45 minutes, so I'm going to be respectful of time.

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What I'm going to do is give you kind of a high level view of what we're recommending,

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the total program that we're recommending to the county commissioners.

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And then Tom will then take over and give some information about how we came to our recommendation

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and do a little bit deeper dive.

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Then we'll pass it to Pinnacle and let them tell you about Pinnacle's company and their offerings

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for safety and different things that they offer, then Tom and I will come back up and just

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kind of tell you the supplemental things that Glenwood Insurance can promise to give you.

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So we're going to tag team it, we're going to be here locally, Pinnacle has their safety

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and loss prevention that they can help you with, but we're here local and what can we do for

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you there, and what does the transition look like?

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So Glenwood Insurance has been in business in the valley for over 100 years.

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We ensure many people in the valley, many of our staff, our members of our community,

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and our whole program is really looking at a partner situation for years to come.

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Not just this year, we want to take it years to come and you can see some more realized

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savings as we go along partnering together for loss prevention and different safety issues.

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So again, we just introduced ourselves.

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I'm the project manager.

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Mindy, she was here.

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She's our executive.

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Both of us have specialty and large commercial.

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Mindy supports me.

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We also have Ricky Daniel out of our rifle office.

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So we have offices in Glenwood, Rifle, and Denver.

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So we're not just local.

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Our expands, reaches all of Colorado.

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But we really are trying to solve some of your problems.

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Maybe it's lowering premium ways that we can lower premium for you in years to come,

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not only this year, but years to come.

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Safety in the workplace, just keeping our fellow community members safe.

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And if they do get injured, how do we get them back to health?

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How do we get them back to work?

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The other person that's not here is Parm, Kirwell, she is our claims liaison.

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on. So she works to help close claims support she can work between the pinnacle and the policyholder,

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Garfield County, or she can work between pinnacle and the injured worker. She helps just kind of close

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claims get things moving, keep things moving. So as we went out to market, we did approach several

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companies. We had several considerations, but we laser down to one. Yes, we want them to be financially

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We want them to have expertise in public entities, so we don't want to just work with anyone, and we really wanted somebody that can help us with claims management, closing claims, safety, loss prevention.

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There are other services that come along with Pinnacle, and I'll let them get into more of what their services entail, but some of the things are like multilingual and translation services.

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online services to help your staff quickly report claims, look at billing, all of that.

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So, and the other thing I'd like to point out, and pinnacle can speak to, is there's an injured worker survey score, and

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pinnacle ranks like number one in that for injured workers.

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They survey all of the companies and kind of compare companies and see how they do.

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Pinnacle has a very strong score on that.

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So our recommendation is pinnacle assurance with a $2,000 deductible.

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If you look at our quoted premium, there's very similar to what you see from CTSI.

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So we're suggesting that you put in place a per claim deductible.

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Tom is going to tell us why and how that helps in a few minutes.

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We,

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in your September meeting, I think, with CTSI, you had asked what the pool experienced

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modest, and they responded that they were a .96.

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As you exit the pool and enter the marketplace, Garfield County will have their own individual

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experience modification factor, and that is set by National Council of Compensation Insurance.

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So, NCCI is a national council that sets your workers, are your experience not.

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They look at the past three years, full three years, and they sort of, in summary, they

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say, are you better than your claims better than expected, or are they worse?

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And as you can see, with a 0.8 credit, you're better.

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You're doing better than your peers, you're doing better than the pool itself.

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So we feel like that's, we've modeled that.

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We don't have the firm NCCI rating yet,

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but Glenwood Insurance has modeled it,

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and Penical has modeled it,

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and we feel pretty firm that that,

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pretty confident that that will be a point eight eight.

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Other things that you can do,

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I'm just showing you future pricing considerations.

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So this may be one of your worst years with this 4.78,

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because we're gonna put tools in place,

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In this case, levers in place that you can hopefully continue to sustain lower premiums by implementing safety, a deductible, and cost containment certification.

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If you are cost containment certified in Colorado, and Tom will get more into depth on that, it's 5% credit.

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So you get next year, we're anticipating in 2026, you would be eligible for that certification and would receive.

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That's basically a report, right, that we do.

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I remember doing that for Sunlight mountains, or something.

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Yes.

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Tom, do you want to speak to that?

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You know, quick.

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Sure, I can speak to that.

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So the cost containment program run by the State Department of Labor, it defines what

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a lost control and employee safety program, kind of minimum requirements, what it should

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look like.

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And they have six specific categories that you need to have in place.

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There's an overarching safety policy statement.

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they look at your employee orientation process, safety training, claims management, and your return

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to work programs. Those are the core pieces of it. And if the state determines that, those programs

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meet the minimum threshold, and I'll say a fair part of it is administrative, so they're looking

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for specific types of documentation and signatures. If that's in place or once that's in place,

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you can apply for the certification. There's a board that reviews those applications and issues

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the certifications and then once you have that just maintaining those programs and providing

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a lost run to the state at each renewal to keep that going provides you that 5% discount

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and we're we're huge proponents of both Glenwood and Pinnacle of being a part of the cost

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containment certification program and I'm a member of the cost containment board as well.

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Great. Did you work with Keith Rice? I did not work with Keith Rice. I took Keith Rice's position

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and he moved on to the county and I was in that position

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to get the ideas.

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We're in the process of hiring a new,

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it's not a risk manager, we're hiring a safety

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and loss prevention specialist

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as the most we do.

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Right.

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Give it our transition.

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Right, we saw that.

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Okay, and then other pricing considerations

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that I want you to think about down the road

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are the dividends, right?

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So, pinnacle and they'll go into more depth,

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this is high level, but they offer general dividends.

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So pinnacle operates similarly to a mutual

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insurance company and if they determine that they have a surplus for the year, they return

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that surplus to their policyholders. It's no cost to enroll. You are eligible if you

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are a policyholder. So if you were to choose to go to pinnacle in 2025, you would be eligible

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without any sort of enrollment. That dividend is usually declared and maybe paid 18 to 24

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months after. If you're still whether or not you're with pinnacle at all, you still are eligible

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eligible for that dividend because you were insured by Pinnacle for that year.

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So that is the entire Pinnacle portfolio.

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Yes.

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They look at what the claims were and make that decision.

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Yes.

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Exactly.

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So that's no cost you.

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I kind of equate it to maybe the equity distribution that you're seeing from CTSI in

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that you earned that equity distribution when you were insured with CTSI, right?

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That's yours.

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So you earned it that you deserve that, and that's similar to what this general dividend would be for you in future years.

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With workers come by always kind of take it, it's not truly insurance, because we're paying for our losses, but it is insurance if we have one that goes.

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Hey, why?

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Crazy, that's exactly.

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Million dollars or something.

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Right.

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We've got another, I want to just mention the individual loss control dividend.

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And that's another optional dividend program offered to larger policy holders.

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It is a cost.

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There's a cost of 5% premium to enroll yourself into that dividend program.

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And if you bet on yourself, you're standing on your own merits.

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You can earn up to 18.8% return dividend, additional dividend besides the general dividend.

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So that's a price consideration.

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18.8 is a zero loss ratio.

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So if you have no claims, you could get 18.8.

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I'll let them speak to that.

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There's a matrix in your packet that shows you, based on your premium and a potential loss

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ratio, what you could earn back.

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So, you've got that. I know your stewards of the campus.

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And so on the $2,000 deductible, I'm familiar with that from that, even if we have incidents that we still submit those to pinnacle and pinnacle still records those.

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Yes.

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And so somehow they're tied into the equation, but I mean, that's a great segue into what Tom is going to deep dive into.

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Maybe he can answer some more questions.

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Okay.

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So looking at the deductible program and why a deductible makes sense in a work comp policy in Colorado,

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and we want to look at the benefits of that deductible.

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The first benefit comes at the time of underwriting the policy, having a deductible results in a credit upfront.

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The carrier understands that you're taking on a portion of the risk yourself, and so they issue a credit for that, the larger the deductible, that larger that initial credit.

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So that's the first place that the deductible is directly involved.

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The second piece goes into how your e-mod is calculated moving forward.

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So in Colorado, we are what's called a net reporting state.

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The money that gets reported, the costs and claims that get reported to NCCI are only

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those that are borne by the carrier.

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Any costs that are paid through a deductible are backed out of the report that goes to NCCI.

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So if you have a $2,000 deductible and an employee goes to an urgent care clinic and they get

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checked out because they're concerned that they injured themselves and it's one visit and

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that's done and it's $500.

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That would be filed like a normal claim, pinnacle will manage it.

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At the end of the day when that key claim closes and the total amount is assessed, that $500 would be invoiced back to the county.

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At that point, that claim, because it's under your deductible, will not go into the report that goes to NCCI.

230
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So it's like it didn't happen from the rating perspective.

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So, Fred, did your team talk about that, how that would be handled by county staff, by finance, by-

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Yes, the way we have it set up right now, Jessica Roberts, our HR director, will be the one who manages that with-

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If we end up working with climate insurance and Pinnacle, we'll still do that.

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And you're going to learn later, Tom, about the services that they are bringing to the table to help Jessica do that claim management.

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So, the short answer is yes.

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Okay, so that's the first piece.

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It reduces the overall costs and potentially number of claims that are reported to NCCI,

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which then begins affecting your e-mod down the road.

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In future years, you'll look better to the rating agency.

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The second piece of that deductible is that the way the e-mod is calculated, and this is

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why it actually has more of an impact than you might think.

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The way an email is calculated, the first $18,500 of a claim are given a far higher weight

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in the rating process than everything above $18,500.

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The reason is that statistically small claims are typically small claims indicate that there's

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a frequency problem and a risk problem and that there's a potential for something to blow

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up.

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So, they look at those small claims as more of an indicator of why you are a certain level

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of risk.

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The second thing is the claims that get very large aren't necessarily tied to the cause

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of this variety of the claim.

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And you can look at something as simple as someone can cut their finger and needs four

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sutures.

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That one individual cuts their finger, they need four sutures, they go to urgent care, they

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get stitches ten days later, they get them out, the end of the day it's $800 done.

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one. That same person could cut a one-eighth inch deeper and

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last rate attendant. What's the difference? Almost no difference in the

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mechanism of injury, but now it's a surgical repair and it's $40,000. That same

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injury could result in a surgical repair and an infection and IV antibiotics and

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time in the hospital and all the sudden it's 150,000. The insurance industry sees

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that those great big claims are somewhat anomalies is that they really focus on the small

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claims as the big indicator of what your risk is.

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So by you reducing the first dollars under 18,500, you're having a big impact on your overall

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picture.

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You say, well, why wouldn't we cover a much larger portion under the deductible?

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And there's a diminishing return as you go up in amount because of the way that calculation

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happens.

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So if we pay the first, you know, say we pay 10 claims that are under $2,000, those are

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noted by a pinnacle but they're not part of our calculation for experience mod.

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That's correct.

270
00:20:10,900 --> 00:20:11,240
That's correct.

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Any claim under your deductible is not reported at all.

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any claim over your deductible is reduced by the deductible that you paid.

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So if you have a $10,000 claim, $8,000 is reported to NCCI.

274
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:32,460
Okay, and actually my next slide does step into that a little bit more deeply

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about how we arrived at 2000 as a recommendation.

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So overall the deductible really can do three things.

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It can lower your premium up front.

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It can lower your experience modification factor down the road

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and therefore reduce your overall program cost.

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As we go into our analysis,

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we looked at the years 2021, 2022, and 2023.

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Those are the years that are being used

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to determine your first mod,

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which we estimate will be at the point eight.

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I'd like to show you how a deductible would affect you

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in the future, but there are too many variables

287
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in the future to really, I think,

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have a good honest conversation about that,

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because many things are not in our control.

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What we can do, I think, is to go back and say,

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what if you had been in a program with a given deductible

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for those three years?

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So you made this change three years ago.

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Where would you be today?

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00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,200
Looking at your actual losses and your actual payroll,

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we estimate that if you had a $2,000 deductible in place

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00:21:36,420 --> 00:21:40,220
for those three years, your e-mail would be a .74 right now.

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00:21:40,220 --> 00:21:48,680
which could result in approximately a $74,000 reduction in your premium over the last 10 years.

299
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,640
Now, we need to add back in deductibles to look at what the total benefit would have been.

300
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:58,320
So, over the last 10 years, because I wanted to take a long view of what your average cost would be,

301
00:21:59,220 --> 00:22:04,100
because you have good years and you have bad years, but your average cost out of pocket over those 10 years

302
00:22:04,100 --> 00:22:09,280
would have been about $32,000. So, that would have been the contribution toward deductibles.

303
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:18,320
But that would leave you up $40,000, $42,000 less this year than your lap right now, right?

304
00:22:19,420 --> 00:22:25,060
That's always a could of what a should of but we want to kind of show what that road map can look like.

305
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If you went to a $5,000 deductible for those three years, you'd see an increased savings but you'd also see more deductible paid in.

306
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And what we start to see is a diminishing return as the deductible goes up.

307
00:22:38,180 --> 00:22:42,520
And did you run those numbers off of our history off from your history?

308
00:22:42,580 --> 00:22:47,920
Yes, so that's a model of where you would be $2,000 is a better deal.

309
00:22:48,180 --> 00:22:54,640
Right, yeah, it's that kind of that range of claims that you have, and so it's very,

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and this is something, you know, if we move forward working together, we,

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and Pinnacle, will work on a deductible analysis each year because it might

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change over time as your safety program, your claims performance improve, or you

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have a bad year, and also just medical costs in the medical environment. But it's not a fixed

314
00:23:12,380 --> 00:23:17,180
number. It can be changed each year. It's a really optimized to your unique situation.

315
00:23:17,540 --> 00:23:22,660
Great. Yeah. Good point. So, any questions on that?

316
00:23:26,300 --> 00:23:29,320
No, go ahead. Okay, forward. Mr.

317
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:35,830
Shamson, you have questions. All right.

318
00:23:39,670 --> 00:23:43,530
My name is Sarah Benzman. I'm a senior business director

319
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Under pinnacle assurance, I have been with pinnacle for 22 years.

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00:23:47,990 --> 00:23:57,770
Colorado native, on behalf of the pinnacle team to thank you for allowing us to be here today, we're really excited to present this proposal in partnership with Glenwood Insurance.

321
00:23:58,330 --> 00:24:09,150
I would just like to tell you a little bit about pinnacle and then I'm going to allow some of our team members to share some additional information as it pertains to some safety services that we have claims and so on.

322
00:24:09,150 --> 00:24:14,890
So similar to Glenwood, pinnacle has been serving the state of Colorado for over 100 years.

323
00:24:15,150 --> 00:24:17,390
We were created in 1915.

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Our mission is to protect Colorado businesses and their greatest assets, which are their employees.

325
00:24:24,330 --> 00:24:30,230
So this is the one thing that we do, workers comp and Colorado, and we are the experts at doing it.

326
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We care so much about our Colorado communities.

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We have a robust pinnacle foundation that we have created that supports children whose parents have been in workplace accidents or if they've had an unfortunate parent that passes away on the job regardless of whether or not they are pinnacle customers.

328
00:24:52,030 --> 00:24:58,470
So we have created that foundation and really try to support the children of injured workers in the state of Colorado through that.

329
00:24:58,470 --> 00:25:03,810
we also have a robust pinnacle and action program where we support our community across

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the state of Colorado because that is so important to us. We are the leading work comp

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insurer in the state and we're up for just a second. Sure. So pinnacle is is a quasi-private

332
00:25:18,470 --> 00:25:26,310
public business correct? Correct. We are quasi-governmental. Right. And the change is really

333
00:25:26,310 --> 00:25:30,330
that happened to pinnacle about 20 years ago.

334
00:25:30,750 --> 00:25:33,150
About somewhat of a scandal.

335
00:25:33,890 --> 00:25:34,930
I don't know if it was a scandal,

336
00:25:35,290 --> 00:25:39,230
but it was in the news about how much

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exactly is you're being paid or something to that,

338
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if I remember right.

339
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So but you are a quasi-governmental public entity.

340
00:25:48,270 --> 00:25:49,870
Right, so as Netty shared,

341
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we operate as a domestic mutual insurance company.

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So, any surplus we have goes back to our policy holders.

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00:25:58,190 --> 00:26:06,330
We still have our Board of Directors selected by the governor, and then we are, while also

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being a competitive carrier, ensuring approximately 50% of the Colorado employers in the state,

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we are also the assured source of insurance, so that if there is an employer that can't

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00:26:18,290 --> 00:26:20,450
find coverage elsewhere, we take them.

347
00:26:22,300 --> 00:26:22,760
Okay.

348
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,220
And we're happy about that.

349
00:26:24,660 --> 00:26:26,360
My background is ski industry, so.

350
00:26:26,740 --> 00:26:27,200
Excellent.

351
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:33,420
I worked with the ski industry for quite some years, which is up here visiting with sunlight a year or two ago.

352
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So, very good.

353
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So we offer comprehensive coverage and exceptional service to our employers.

354
00:26:41,340 --> 00:26:45,080
Pinnacle operates slightly uniquely to other insurance companies.

355
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:49,280
A lot of times you have an underwriting department, a claims department, a safety department.

356
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:59,900
While we have all of that, we really focus on business teams that surround the customer so that we can provide a multi-disciplinary approach to how we're serving you.

357
00:27:00,380 --> 00:27:06,620
That's how I have a team of individuals here in partnership with Glenwood that focus only on public entity customers.

358
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:14,720
We work with cities, towns, municipalities, fire districts and so on, and that is this team's sole focus.

359
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:19,960
We have other teams that focus on more diversified business or health care business.

360
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:27,020
So, this is where we really want to provide that expertise with what you do with our team here.

361
00:27:28,180 --> 00:27:31,660
As I mentioned, our mission is to protect Colorado businesses.

362
00:27:31,980 --> 00:27:36,840
We do that through providing competitive pricing, which button is that?

363
00:27:36,860 --> 00:27:37,500
This is just the right arrow.

364
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:38,280
Okay, thank you.

365
00:27:39,180 --> 00:27:43,640
Competitive pricing, best-in-class claim service,

366
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:48,340
this, which Chris is going to talk to you a little bit more about when he comes up and

367
00:27:48,340 --> 00:27:50,120
then proactive safety support.

368
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:56,000
We truly believe that we can be an incredible partner to Garfield in conjunction with Glenwood

369
00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:01,880
insurance so that you have the most optimal outcomes, and that should you have any of your

370
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:06,200
employees injured, we're going to help get them better as quick as possible and back to work.

371
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:15,140
Yeah, and on my other comments, I'm also very aware of the excellence pinnacle is you know what you've done in the last 20 years to

372
00:28:15,140 --> 00:28:16,780
Thank you so much for the

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State of Colorado and companies that can't get workers confidence, especially our trades.

374
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:24,900
Thank you so much.

375
00:28:24,900 --> 00:28:25,800
Maybe the ski industries.

376
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:36,680
Yes, so I am going to now hand it over to Sabrina who will be your underwriter if you choose to come with Glenwood and pinnacle.

377
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:44,580
My name is Sabrina Willis. I'm a senior underwriter on the public sector team for pinnacle assurance.

378
00:28:45,420 --> 00:28:48,500
I bet a pinnacle for 19 and a half years now.

379
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:56,720
And I wanted to talk to you about the policy hold of portal.

380
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:57,740
Were you going to do the portal?

381
00:28:57,940 --> 00:28:58,420
You know what?

382
00:28:59,180 --> 00:29:01,260
I was going to do the portal.

383
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:02,160
My apologies, Sabrina.

384
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,940
So we have a robust online services.

385
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The first is the policy hold of portal.

386
00:29:08,540 --> 00:29:13,700
This, as Netty mentioned earlier, is going to allow you the opportunity to look at any

387
00:29:13,700 --> 00:29:17,600
policy information that you have but also to look up any claim information that you might

388
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:21,280
have anything you might need to know around your policy and claims.

389
00:29:21,620 --> 00:29:27,640
You're going to have access to 24-7 here, of course our team is available, but this

390
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,620
is going to give you robust information at your fingertips.

391
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,780
We also have an injured worker portal.

392
00:29:35,140 --> 00:29:40,700
This is going to allow any of your employees that may unfortunately have a claim to be able

393
00:29:40,700 --> 00:29:44,960
to log in and get similar information regarding their claim.

394
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:50,440
it's going to let them know basic claim information, it's going to help them keep track of any

395
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:55,660
indemnity benefit payments that they might be receiving, they can submit for mileage reimbursement

396
00:29:55,660 --> 00:29:59,700
on the portal. Really, we want to make it easy for your employees.

397
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:16,740
To navigate their claim reach out to their claim representative, should they have any questions, they can also view medical records on the portal. So, really robust online services for you as an employer, also for any injured workers. And now I'm going to hand it over to Sabrina.

398
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:30,460
So, I wanted to thank you again. Safety Service, we have the largest safety service team in Colorado. It's composers of like three components.

399
00:30:31,100 --> 00:30:35,660
We've got a team that handles, and they all work together very well.

400
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,480
A team that handles coming out and doing visits, training.

401
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,940
We have a team that handles innovation.

402
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,780
They're looking for new things, new building, new training.

403
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:50,580
We have a team that does new training.

404
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:58,960
And they are a very, they like to work with the customers.

405
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:00,200
or strictly they are local.

406
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:02,760
We have people out here on your side of the mountain

407
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,580
that will be out here helping.

408
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,080
We have a few people out here that will be out here helping.

409
00:31:08,580 --> 00:31:10,100
We also have a return to work specialist

410
00:31:10,100 --> 00:31:12,580
who you'll meet soon, that is also out here.

411
00:31:12,980 --> 00:31:18,060
I'm not gonna go over every one of these safety services

412
00:31:18,060 --> 00:31:20,240
because we've included it in your packet

413
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:24,320
for you to look at and review and have for future reference.

414
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:32,880
But they work in conjunction with the Glenwood agency, so we would be glad to get them out and help you.

415
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:39,180
We have a value of about $50,000 on our safety services that we offer.

416
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:46,780
So we also have some that are done in Spanish, some trainings that are done in Spanish.

417
00:31:46,780 --> 00:31:52,100
If you need to address some of the Spanish speaking workers in your community, we can do that.

418
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:58,900
So, one thing, again, I just go back to my background, one thing that, and this is a long

419
00:31:58,900 --> 00:32:04,960
time ago, because I haven't been involved in workers come for quite some time, but in

420
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:12,680
the skin industry, when there was a claim, there were like one or two, three people that

421
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:20,580
claim would go to it, because they were experts, or they knew what that industry was, and

422
00:32:20,580 --> 00:32:25,180
So will that be the case with the county,

423
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:30,260
or will the claim just go to however it rotates up?

424
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,540
No, we will have designated claims wrap

425
00:32:34,540 --> 00:32:37,660
and I think Chris Jen, what's it we'll speak to that

426
00:32:37,660 --> 00:32:40,140
for just for Garfield County.

427
00:32:43,700 --> 00:32:49,180
So our team specifically works with public entities

428
00:32:49,180 --> 00:32:51,860
So we're with the fire, the police, streets and roads.

429
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,300
So all of our people have expertise.

430
00:32:55,300 --> 00:33:00,340
We have a fabulous claims team that I'm very proud of our claims team.

431
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:01,840
We have a really good claims team.

432
00:33:01,860 --> 00:33:03,360
They really care about the employees.

433
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:11,620
So it will be with one to person that will be helping you with your claims.

434
00:33:11,620 --> 00:33:12,240
Thank you.

435
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:12,940
You're welcome.

436
00:33:16,740 --> 00:33:19,800
Okay, so next I will introduce Chris Hansen.

437
00:33:26,260 --> 00:33:27,060
Chris Hansen.

438
00:33:27,220 --> 00:33:29,620
I have a clinical assurance for eight years.

439
00:33:30,180 --> 00:33:34,180
I am the underwriting lead for our public entity team.

440
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:41,240
This slide is kind of a transition between Sabrina talking about safety and Mr. Janowicz

441
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:42,980
here in a minute is going to talk more about claims.

442
00:33:43,740 --> 00:33:50,360
But Sabrina is talking about safety and the first point on here is the cheapest claim is

443
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:51,540
the one that never happens.

444
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,620
And that's really the focus of our safety team.

445
00:33:54,620 --> 00:34:00,140
We're going to mitigate all the risks and then whatever residual risk yet, they're going

446
00:34:00,140 --> 00:34:00,600
to be claims.

447
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:01,920
They're always be claims.

448
00:34:02,420 --> 00:34:04,240
But we want to reduce that number of claims.

449
00:34:04,940 --> 00:34:09,340
And overall, through the company, we're finding 40% of customers have seen a reduction

450
00:34:09,340 --> 00:34:13,080
in frequency a year after visiting with our claims group.

451
00:34:13,500 --> 00:34:18,780
Add Tom to the mix who's, again, a former pinnacle safety engineer.

452
00:34:18,780 --> 00:34:24,300
and it's just going to be that much more effective.

453
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:36,620
PENICLE closes claims 25% faster and we're going to show you some public entity, a specific

454
00:34:37,610 --> 00:34:38,840
terms in just a minute.

455
00:34:39,380 --> 00:34:44,600
But in general, PENICLE closes claims 25% more quickly than our competitors.

456
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:55,920
and this is from a study done by Oliver Wyman who looked at all of the Colorado workers' compensation carriers and determined that Pinnacle was the most efficient.

457
00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:08,240
What does that mean? If we get these things closed quicker, that gets your folks back to work quicker. That means there's fewer overtime by the folks having to fill in.

458
00:35:08,240 --> 00:35:16,780
So there's all these extra claims pieces that are indirect costs of a claim that are not covered by insurance

459
00:35:16,780 --> 00:35:19,600
They actually just will just come out of the Garfield County budget

460
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:25,100
So we want to get these guys back to it back to work quicker so that they can resume their work

461
00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:28,780
And going into that does that mean

462
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:34,960
We're just gonna put these guys back to work and they're not fully fixed. No, we are and

463
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:42,060
And NETI mentioned earlier, our injured workers' satisfaction score is the highest in the state.

464
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:52,160
The folks that come to pinnacle with injuries because of the empathetic way our claims adjusters

465
00:35:52,160 --> 00:36:00,280
work with them, pardon me, they come back feeling better than they would have otherwise.

466
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:21,440
So, the injured worker's satisfaction score is something we are so proud of and what happens if someone else is responsible for the claim, we will pursue them and you will get your deductible back, we will reduce your experience mod by that claim, so we are also looking towards that.

467
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:27,040
All right, I'd like to now introduce Chris for Janowicz.

468
00:36:27,420 --> 00:36:27,640
Good

469
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:31,960
morning.

470
00:36:32,100 --> 00:36:33,140
Thank you for having us.

471
00:36:33,420 --> 00:36:34,760
My name is Chris Janowicz.

472
00:36:34,980 --> 00:36:39,740
I'm the team lead for the claims operation of our public entity sector.

473
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,380
Been with Pinnacle coming on about eight years or so.

474
00:36:43,820 --> 00:36:57,180
I'm responsible for overseeing our claims team, ensuring they are working to close claims as quickly and efficiently as possible while still providing the utmost level of service.

475
00:36:57,180 --> 00:36:59,840
to both our injured workers and our policy holders.

476
00:37:00,860 --> 00:37:04,180
Tom, I wanted to answer your question about the assignment piece.

477
00:37:05,150 --> 00:37:10,140
We've identified a particular representative who would be handling all of the identity

478
00:37:10,140 --> 00:37:11,800
cases for Garfield County.

479
00:37:13,460 --> 00:37:18,020
Initially, most claims reported, are reported as quote-unquote medical only.

480
00:37:19,060 --> 00:37:23,420
As Tom was mentioning, somebody cuts their finger, they seek treatment at an urgent care.

481
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:24,440
Treatment is minor.

482
00:37:25,180 --> 00:37:26,340
There's no lost time.

483
00:37:26,340 --> 00:37:29,780
There's no indemnity benefits, permanent benefits paid at that point.

484
00:37:30,340 --> 00:37:33,480
Most of those claims will remain medical only.

485
00:37:33,580 --> 00:37:37,320
They will remain with a medical only team that still does service and

486
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,180
specialize in the public sector.

487
00:37:39,620 --> 00:37:42,320
Should those claims require additional investigation?

488
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,780
Should they be placed in a no work status?

489
00:37:47,380 --> 00:37:53,840
The claim becomes lost time, evidence of permanency arises, legal representation.

490
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:58,960
Any number of these triggers arise, the claim will be moved over to our indemnity representative.

491
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:05,460
Furthermore, once claims reach the two-year mark or an excess of $350,000 gross incurred,

492
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,000
they move to our complex claims representative.

493
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:13,060
This is a team of the best and the brightest claims handlers within the industry.

494
00:38:14,940 --> 00:38:22,300
So Chris was hitting on average days to recovery, our claim representatives closed claims quicker.

495
00:38:22,300 --> 00:38:27,680
Our data suggests on the lower end of the spectrum, every day a claim remains open costs

496
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:38,420
about an extra $80, so we close claims approximately 41 days quicker than public entities across

497
00:38:38,950 --> 00:38:43,060
the state of Colorado with other carriers, so you can do the math there.

498
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,060
How is this done?

499
00:38:48,060 --> 00:38:50,860
And what are claims representatives doing on a day-to-day basis?

500
00:38:51,140 --> 00:38:59,180
They're leveraging and collaborating with a plethora of internal resources that we have within our organization.

501
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:04,080
This includes what isn't limited to our nurse case managers, our inside legal council,

502
00:39:04,540 --> 00:39:11,140
special investigations units, our suburbation team, as well as our medical operations department.

503
00:39:11,140 --> 00:39:17,380
This is, this could, we could probably have a separate presentation just on our medical operations department.

504
00:39:17,780 --> 00:39:26,020
They're overseeing all of the clinics within our select net directory to ensure all of the physicians who are seeing and

505
00:39:26,020 --> 00:39:31,300
treating your employees are up to date with their licensing and credentialing.

506
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:39,500
Reporting to the state, they're ensuring that they're providing the information from their appointments directly to not just pinnacle but

507
00:39:39,500 --> 00:39:42,320
our field county in a timely and efficient manner.

508
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,320
So not only is pinnacle well aware of the status

509
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:47,260
of your employees and their recovery,

510
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:49,060
but Garfield County is just as aware

511
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:50,900
of where their injured workers sit

512
00:39:50,900 --> 00:39:52,180
in terms of the recovery.

513
00:39:54,780 --> 00:39:59,100
So how does this work with our disability insurance?

514
00:39:59,420 --> 00:40:01,560
Is there any integration there,

515
00:40:01,740 --> 00:40:03,920
if somebody's injured on the job,

516
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,580
disability insurance doesn't play a part?

517
00:40:08,300 --> 00:40:14,740
So typically, when we have that question or, you know, FMLA, when that comes up, we usually

518
00:40:14,740 --> 00:40:15,960
try to keep them separate.

519
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:23,220
When an injured worker, you know, has exceeded three mischiefs, they become eligible for temporary

520
00:40:23,220 --> 00:40:27,320
total disability or temporary partial disability benefits where they're going to be paid

521
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:35,940
by pinnacle at two-thirds of their gross average weekly wage, any decisions made by an employer

522
00:40:35,940 --> 00:40:43,140
to utilize supplemental insurance, disability, FMLA, or even utilizing sick vacation time from

523
00:40:43,140 --> 00:40:48,440
their own, from the employee's personal bank would be what we would consider business decisions

524
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:55,900
made by an employer. And we've seen a wide array of creativity that employers use.

525
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:02,580
Employees, they hear, I'm only getting two thirds of my pay, I can't pay my bills. This is somebody's

526
00:41:02,580 --> 00:41:07,360
livelihood. This is putting food on the table. So there's options out there, you know,

527
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,640
for utilizing that sick vacation time to get those back to the employer.

528
00:41:10,980 --> 00:41:14,620
Correct. Correct. But they're, but they're guaranteed, you know, should they have a

529
00:41:14,620 --> 00:41:20,300
compensable injury? They're guaranteed two thirds of their gross pay, tax exempt, supposed

530
00:41:20,300 --> 00:41:24,420
the mileage reimbursement. It does, it does end up making them closer to whole than they

531
00:41:24,420 --> 00:41:25,900
initially think when they hear two thirds.

532
00:41:31,860 --> 00:41:34,340
And then Chris also touched on our injured worker

533
00:41:34,340 --> 00:41:39,680
satisfaction scores being higher than our competitors and not just our injured worker

534
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:44,460
satisfaction, our policyholder satisfaction as well throughout the claims process.

535
00:41:45,060 --> 00:41:51,780
I would say that one of the key things our claim representatives pride themselves on

536
00:41:51,780 --> 00:41:58,000
is our constant communication with all parties involved, our employers, our injured workers,

537
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:03,700
are providers, especially at high key touch points during the life of a claim,

538
00:42:04,300 --> 00:42:07,780
somebody's taken off for surgery, somebody's just taken off work,

539
00:42:07,780 --> 00:42:13,660
taken off work by the doctor, they don't know what to do, they're given an impairment rating,

540
00:42:14,060 --> 00:42:18,320
and they've just seen a doctor who's measured how far their shoulder can move behind their back,

541
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,900
and they're assigning a number to them, and they have no idea what's happening.

542
00:42:22,500 --> 00:42:26,500
So we really pride ourselves on our constant communication with all involved parties

543
00:42:26,500 --> 00:42:29,400
we understand that these are life altering events.

544
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,460
Most employees haven't experienced anything like this.

545
00:42:32,700 --> 00:42:36,040
And we want to make sure that we are holding their hands through the process.

546
00:42:36,220 --> 00:42:38,180
They understand every step of the way.

547
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:42,140
They understand the paperwork that's being issued to them on a weekly basis.

548
00:42:44,110 --> 00:42:49,000
We also understand too, one of Garfield County's asks would be regular claim reviews.

549
00:42:49,660 --> 00:42:52,960
Either quarterly semi-annually annual basis.

550
00:42:52,960 --> 00:43:13,100
While we do see this occasionally among our team of public entities, we have found it to not necessarily be necessary, given the constant level of communication and ensuring our employers are fully up to speed with where their employees sit in their claim and what their next steps are for the recovery.

551
00:43:13,100 --> 00:43:27,720
Yeah, I think that disconnect might be just between our management and in this board because we aren't we aren't operational for say it's kind of commissioner's policy level.

552
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,880
Yeah, and decision made policy policy.

553
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:34,280
What the 4.2% is that out of five?

554
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:34,980
Yes.

555
00:43:34,980 --> 00:43:35,760
And

556
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:40,440
next up, we have Jordan Cagney.

557
00:43:46,780 --> 00:43:47,480
Good morning, you guys.

558
00:43:47,660 --> 00:43:51,280
My name is Jordan, and I'm the Return to Work Consultant for the Public Enidys team.

559
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:53,280
I've been with Pinnacle for 11 years.

560
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:59,560
And one special element of the Return to Work team at Pinnacle is we all have backgrounds in vocational rehabilitation.

561
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:04,500
So assisting individuals with limitations into remaining and staying in the workforce.

562
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:13,460
So we're all uniquely qualified to kind of get creative with you, to keep your injured employees working and engaged during the course of their recovery.

563
00:44:13,460 --> 00:44:26,420
we know that getting people back to work, we have a lot of data that supports that it is really critical to the overall claims outcomes, and we know that it's really important for you guys to manage your financial outcomes as well to keep those indemnity costs low.

564
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:35,640
And so I'm a specialized resource that just does that that helps you guys come up with creative solutions to get and keep people at work during the course of their recovery.

565
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:43,120
So I can provide services that range from helping you brainstorm, modify duty tasks and options for that person within their

566
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:49,460
restrictions to make sure they are able to safely stay at work. I can help with facilitating formal written offers of

567
00:44:49,460 --> 00:44:56,300
modify duty. These situations can be complex as much as we love to just say, hey, come back to work and the people comply.

568
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,920
That doesn't always happen. So sometimes we need a little bit more leverage or documents.

569
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:29,900
presentation or clarity around the situation. And I can help with creating offers that are legally binding in compliance with the work on statute. We have a robust nonprofit program. So when we really are out of ideas and maybe there isn't a good fit within within the workplace that makes sense for you guys and for the injured worker, we can partner with local nonprofits to facilitate volunteer arrangements and lieu of modified duty at the business. And we also have a number of other alternative solutions

570
00:45:29,900 --> 00:45:34,900
like virtual training that we can facilitate, so truly believe anybody can get back to work if

571
00:45:34,900 --> 00:45:38,180
they've been released with restrictions and I'm here to partner with you guys to come up with

572
00:45:38,180 --> 00:45:42,380
those creative solutions and work hand in hand with you guys. I work really closely with our

573
00:45:42,380 --> 00:45:48,820
team claims team and so we're here to make sure that we can help you achieve your goals and

574
00:45:48,820 --> 00:45:53,360
managing those claims costs and making sure that your workers are cared for and that you can keep

575
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:58,980
your workers close and engage and feeling valued. It really does make a difference in the whole

576
00:45:58,980 --> 00:46:04,100
outcome of their claim. You know, people who don't go back to work or offer certain periods

577
00:46:04,100 --> 00:46:08,120
of time have less likelihood of returning to the workforce at all. We don't like that. We want

578
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:12,680
people to stay in the workforce, to stay in the community. And so, yeah, we're showing advocates

579
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:16,480
of this. And I would work closely with you and your team to make sure that we can get people back

580
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:21,500
to work in a safe and healthy manner that makes sense for you guys.

581
00:46:22,420 --> 00:46:28,880
And so how do you interact with the individualist handling the claim?

582
00:46:29,740 --> 00:46:33,900
So the claim comes, you know, how do you interact with that?

583
00:46:34,260 --> 00:46:38,260
Yeah, so depending on the situation, obviously, if your interworker just never misses time,

584
00:46:38,540 --> 00:46:39,560
probably you're not going to use me.

585
00:46:39,980 --> 00:46:43,700
But if there's any sort of complexity with the situation, maybe the restrictions are hard

586
00:46:43,700 --> 00:46:44,160
to understand.

587
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,880
Maybe we don't know what we can have this person do.

588
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:49,640
Maybe the interworker isn't compliant.

589
00:46:50,020 --> 00:46:51,220
The claims team tags me in.

590
00:46:51,220 --> 00:46:57,680
We work closely together. We're always communicating so they tag me in. I would reach out to our point of contact with your team

591
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:02,620
Whoever that is and we would talk talk through the solutions figure out what that needs to happen

592
00:47:02,620 --> 00:47:07,240
My goal is to make it easy for you guys to you know to take a lot of the heavy lift

593
00:47:07,240 --> 00:47:10,920
Obviously you guys have to do the boots on the ground with getting that person back to work

594
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:18,340
But I'm here to help with everything else to make it easy for you and again staying in that constant contact contact with the claims team

595
00:47:18,340 --> 00:47:20,760
and just working seamlessly with you guys

596
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:22,960
and doing really whatever you need.

597
00:47:23,100 --> 00:47:24,120
I'm here and available.

598
00:47:24,660 --> 00:47:26,600
How many individuals in your department?

599
00:47:27,220 --> 00:47:27,760
We have nine.

600
00:47:29,620 --> 00:47:31,820
You would just get the pleasure working with me,

601
00:47:31,900 --> 00:47:33,500
though, I'd be directly assigned to your role today,

602
00:47:33,620 --> 00:47:34,700
so if you're already looking elsewhere,

603
00:47:34,980 --> 00:47:36,160
I'm really sorry, you know what I mean?

604
00:47:37,980 --> 00:47:39,360
We're stuck with you.

605
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:41,140
You would be stuck, yes, I know.

606
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:43,520
It's really terrible, but I promise to do my best.

607
00:47:45,140 --> 00:47:45,920
Any other questions?

608
00:47:49,060 --> 00:47:51,360
I'm going to hand it back to Tom at this point.

609
00:47:56,930 --> 00:47:57,610
Thanks, Sarah.

610
00:47:57,870 --> 00:47:58,710
Really appreciate that.

611
00:47:59,850 --> 00:48:02,230
I do have one question back for you, Sarah.

612
00:48:02,650 --> 00:48:07,610
So how many counties do you have right now in Pinnacle?

613
00:48:08,950 --> 00:48:09,670
Do you have it?

614
00:48:10,450 --> 00:48:11,790
An idea on that?

615
00:48:12,070 --> 00:48:12,390
A lot.

616
00:48:12,650 --> 00:48:13,870
A lot of counties.

617
00:48:14,150 --> 00:48:14,610
So it's so.

618
00:48:14,850 --> 00:48:18,430
I don't have a number off the top of my head, but we ensure quite a few.

619
00:48:18,430 --> 00:48:19,510
Okay, thank you.

620
00:48:19,530 --> 00:48:23,070
Do you ensure anyone riding this north of Australia who is that?

621
00:48:23,810 --> 00:48:26,830
We, I think there's a testimonial page in-

622
00:48:26,830 --> 00:48:27,110
60?

623
00:48:27,610 --> 00:48:28,250
Page 60.

624
00:48:28,650 --> 00:48:31,770
But it's, is it City of Aspen, Town of Snowmass?

625
00:48:32,330 --> 00:48:32,450
Yeah.

626
00:48:33,410 --> 00:48:34,010
Ego County.

627
00:48:34,210 --> 00:48:37,130
Former City Aspen, Douglas County, and Snowmass Village.

628
00:48:37,610 --> 00:48:40,510
We also have Pitkin County, so fairly close.

629
00:48:41,690 --> 00:48:42,710
So we have resources.

630
00:48:42,770 --> 00:48:45,830
If you want to reach out to anybody at those counties, they can give you some names.

631
00:48:48,540 --> 00:48:49,860
You stole my question.

632
00:48:51,980 --> 00:48:56,240
And specifically counties that have left the pool that you're in right now.

633
00:48:56,480 --> 00:49:00,060
So they've gone through this exact transition over the last several years.

634
00:49:00,620 --> 00:49:00,640
Right.

635
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:07,940
So what I want to do is just cover what Glenwood Insurance can do in conjunction with

636
00:49:07,940 --> 00:49:08,260
Pinnacle.

637
00:49:08,260 --> 00:49:13,040
We really have quite a bit of overlap in the services that we're going to provide, starting

638
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:14,860
with the claims process.

639
00:49:14,860 --> 00:49:17,680
So, as Nettie mentioned, we have a claims liaison on staff.

640
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:23,220
Her sole job is to monitor claims, assist policy holders with filing when they need it,

641
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:25,780
and then kind of looking over the shoulders of everyone.

642
00:49:25,940 --> 00:49:29,320
She's looking over the shoulder, the policy holder and pinnacle and just trying to stay engaged

643
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:34,220
and identify our things working the way that we expect them to is pinnacle, you know, moving

644
00:49:34,220 --> 00:49:38,700
claims along the way that we expect them to is there a friction with pinnacle, with the

645
00:49:38,700 --> 00:49:42,260
county, with the injured workers that maybe she sees that they don't, sometimes being a

646
00:49:42,260 --> 00:49:47,020
little bit further back gives you a different view. So she'll be doing along with me monthly

647
00:49:47,460 --> 00:49:51,980
reviews of your claims or we'll run a report and just see what's going on. Maybe there's

648
00:49:51,980 --> 00:49:56,580
action that we can suggest to make an improvement. Maybe it's nothing. Maybe things are going

649
00:49:56,580 --> 00:50:00,160
along great and we'll just leave it at that. But we'll do those monthly reviews, just kind

650
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:05,580
of looking at where we are. Then quarterly, as you mentioned, we'll be doing a full deep

651
00:50:05,580 --> 00:50:09,940
dive into your claims trends to understand, hey, is there an exposure that isn't being

652
00:50:09,940 --> 00:50:14,180
well handled, is there something going on with the return to work process, maybe that

653
00:50:14,180 --> 00:50:18,180
we can help move forward, so quarterly we're going to take a deeper look to understand

654
00:50:18,180 --> 00:50:22,760
what's unfolding in front of us as the policy or goals on, and then we'll provide feedback

655
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:28,020
directly to the county, saying, hey, we see this, whether it's, man, everything's going great,

656
00:50:28,380 --> 00:50:32,980
spread the kudos around to your team, or, man, here's the thing we're seeing, maybe something

657
00:50:32,980 --> 00:50:36,740
in the roads and bridge department where maybe there's been a change in leadership or a change

658
00:50:36,740 --> 00:50:40,460
you know, excess workload and maybe we can help identify those risks.

659
00:50:40,700 --> 00:50:41,500
So we'll be looking at that.

660
00:50:42,940 --> 00:50:45,000
Pinnacle has something that I think is relatively unique.

661
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:50,480
They have the ability to generate loss reports that benchmark against similar entities.

662
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:52,720
So we can kind of say, what does this mean?

663
00:50:52,980 --> 00:50:55,320
We see where you are, but what, that's just a snapshot.

664
00:50:56,240 --> 00:51:00,580
And I think it's important that we compare you to yourself over time, but it's also valuable

665
00:51:00,580 --> 00:51:04,200
to look at where you why compared to similar public entities.

666
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:08,300
And so, pinnacle has the ability to drill that down and generate that report.

667
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:11,680
So, we can use that as kind of a check throughout the year to say, how are we doing?

668
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:16,720
And then the last one is a really deep, dive annual claims trend where we will present

669
00:51:16,720 --> 00:51:20,620
to the board where we are and what we see moving forward.

670
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:21,040
Yes.

671
00:51:22,460 --> 00:51:23,220
Lost control.

672
00:51:23,500 --> 00:51:25,480
So, I'm here local.

673
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:29,940
I will admit, I live in gypsum, I don't live in the county, but I'm here local, I'm here

674
00:51:29,940 --> 00:51:30,780
just about every day.

675
00:51:30,780 --> 00:51:35,200
So I'm really going to be the first, the first point of contact for loss control and safety.

676
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:39,540
I can act as a gatekeeper and a facilitator with Pinnacle's team and I think we have a unique

677
00:51:39,540 --> 00:51:43,040
stimulation where I have worked very closely with Pinnacle's team over the years.

678
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:47,440
So I communicate with them almost daily on all of our policy holders.

679
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:51,800
But main things I want to focus on, right off the bat, cost containment certification.

680
00:51:52,240 --> 00:51:53,460
There's a ticking clock on that.

681
00:51:53,720 --> 00:51:57,740
We want to make sure that if you move forward, you have it for 2026 at the latest.

682
00:51:57,740 --> 00:52:01,660
So, we'll look at all your programs and see where you stand, and I will help you fill

683
00:52:01,660 --> 00:52:02,100
in the gaps.

684
00:52:02,100 --> 00:52:04,720
Being a member of the board, I'm very familiar with the process.

685
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:10,700
I can't guarantee certification, that's not appropriate, but I will say that we understand

686
00:52:10,700 --> 00:52:14,300
the process between us and pinnacle better than anyone out there.

687
00:52:15,740 --> 00:52:21,780
Then beyond that, I really want to focus on boots on the ground safety.

688
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:24,440
That is really where most of the difference is made.

689
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:27,220
You have, I've reviewed, some very robust,

690
00:52:27,540 --> 00:52:29,580
written, documented safety programs.

691
00:52:29,860 --> 00:52:33,100
I think he did you proud with the documentation

692
00:52:33,100 --> 00:52:34,000
that he put together.

693
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:37,880
The next step is making sure that that's really happening

694
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:38,920
out at the job site.

695
00:52:39,060 --> 00:52:42,720
So I'm very focused on getting into your program,

696
00:52:42,860 --> 00:52:44,080
getting out there meeting supervisors,

697
00:52:44,380 --> 00:52:47,980
meeting people, doing work, understanding how they do work,

698
00:52:48,140 --> 00:52:50,220
how they interact with the hazards around them,

699
00:52:50,220 --> 00:52:52,480
and help identify ways that you can improve

700
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:54,300
move that incrementally as you move on.

701
00:52:54,980 --> 00:52:56,900
And then another one is the safety committee.

702
00:52:57,500 --> 00:53:01,160
So I would be closely involved with the safety committee if I'm welcomed.

703
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:07,120
You know, I would attempt to attend every meeting to act as a subject matter expert and

704
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:10,760
just a resource to help amplify the effectiveness of the safety committee.

705
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:13,720
Last one, accident investigations.

706
00:53:14,180 --> 00:53:20,960
When an injured worker, when a worker's injured in the workplace, the two main goals

707
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:26,700
I think need to be number one, get that injured worker cared for, the best care possible.

708
00:53:27,140 --> 00:53:33,280
The second thing is let's learn everything we can about how it happened to reduce the

709
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:38,060
likelihood of it happening again, and that really means organizationally helping your

710
00:53:38,060 --> 00:53:44,080
team get beyond blame, get beyond scapegoating, and get to just understanding what happened

711
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:49,140
and why it happened so you can make changes to help people reduce the likelihood of injuries

712
00:53:49,140 --> 00:53:49,640
moving forward.

713
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:57,160
So I really try to be very closely involved in that accident investigation process to look at are you getting to good root causes and then

714
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:00,720
Looking at actions that tie back to those root causes

715
00:54:01,460 --> 00:54:06,740
If you give employees the opportunity to share and tell you about how their injury happened

716
00:54:06,740 --> 00:54:11,000
You can almost get to a good nugget that makes things better moving forward

717
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:17,860
And I think that's the best way to honor whatever bad thing happened to the employee is the man. Let's learn everything

718
00:54:17,860 --> 00:54:21,680
we can leverage that, reduce the likelihood of happening to someone else.

719
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:24,360
So that's kind of my philosophy around safety.

720
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:30,780
My background is clinical, several years of oil and gas, doing health and safety and

721
00:54:30,780 --> 00:54:35,240
operations, environmental remediation, and before that agriculture growing up on a farm.

722
00:54:35,240 --> 00:54:37,240
I still have an active class, a CDL.

723
00:54:37,780 --> 00:54:41,720
I pride myself on being able to really relate to and communicate with the people who are actually

724
00:54:41,720 --> 00:54:42,300
doing the work.

725
00:54:42,740 --> 00:54:47,320
Everybody in your leadership team understands probably what needs to be done with your safety

726
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:52,640
program in law's control, how do we relate that down to the person who's actually turning

727
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:57,960
a wrench, driving a truck, handling a shovel, sitting at a desk, and that's where I specialize.

728
00:54:58,720 --> 00:55:02,700
Okay, so our workers' comp claims a lot of them come out of the sheriff's department,

729
00:55:03,780 --> 00:55:06,480
the majority of them come out of the sheriff's department. So in my time,

730
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:17,300
actually tied back to training. Absolutely, that's we've seen that. And so when I was at

731
00:55:17,300 --> 00:55:22,520
agencies, and that is exactly the trend at all law enforcement agencies, and fire as

732
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:27,900
well, training accidents by far outweigh incidents in the line of duty.

733
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:33,880
And there are things that can be done to incrementally move that forward, looking at the way training

734
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:39,440
is conducted. And I actually know that pinnacles have been sending some of their team through

735
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:45,720
some specialized training on those exact types of injuries. So I would look forward to doing

736
00:55:45,720 --> 00:55:51,600
a dive into there. When I work with law enforcement and when I work with emergency responders, I

737
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:57,740
think the key is helping them understand that we are not there to tell them how to police.

738
00:55:58,900 --> 00:56:04,680
We are not there that's not our expertise and it never really can be, but we understand how

739
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:08,680
people get hurt in the workplace and we can give them information on how to reduce the frequency

740
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:10,800
and see especially of those training interviews.

741
00:56:13,500 --> 00:56:14,260
Yeah, that's great.

742
00:56:15,500 --> 00:56:17,920
Alrighty, lastly, our transition plan,

743
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:20,060
should you choose to move forward with us?

744
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:23,600
We would have a virtual meeting with county staff

745
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:25,640
and with Pinnacle and with Glenwood Insurance.

746
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:28,220
And we'd come together, set up some framework

747
00:56:28,220 --> 00:56:31,440
within Pinnacle's policyholder portal

748
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:34,640
so that when you go live January 1st,

749
00:56:34,660 --> 00:56:36,520
you would have, we can set up locations

750
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:40,000
in the policyholder portal that will tell us

751
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:42,680
when we report a claim, where did that claim happen?

752
00:56:43,060 --> 00:56:45,120
And then when those reports come back from Tom

753
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:47,760
and from Pinnacle, we can pinpoint, okay,

754
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:50,820
we're seeing a lot at, you know, street and road.

755
00:56:51,020 --> 00:56:53,980
We're seeing a lot at maybe the corner

756
00:56:53,980 --> 00:56:55,080
or maybe we're seeing whatever.

757
00:56:55,240 --> 00:56:59,200
So we can figure that out, sorry, that was a bad example.

758
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:02,660
But we want to set up that framework early

759
00:57:02,660 --> 00:57:04,320
and then we want to do training with the staff

760
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:06,980
because we understand that this transition

761
00:57:06,980 --> 00:57:08,600
happens January 1st.

762
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:13,040
It happens New Year's Eve, and when that clock hits 1201,

763
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:14,200
it would be pinnacle.

764
00:57:14,420 --> 00:57:15,740
And we want to make sure that you-

765
00:57:15,740 --> 00:57:17,280
You have a few employees that would be working in 12-

766
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:18,780
Yes, that's exactly it.

767
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:19,520
That's our concern.

768
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:23,300
So not only will your staff be up and ready to go claims

769
00:57:23,300 --> 00:57:27,680
reporting on the next day or at that time,

770
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:30,840
but also, honestly, you'll have my cell phone.

771
00:57:31,020 --> 00:57:33,120
So we're local, we're here to help you.

772
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:35,920
We want to partner with you years down the road.

773
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:37,500
This is not just a one and done.

774
00:57:37,500 --> 00:57:41,780
We want to work together for premium reduction in years to come.

775
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:47,020
Safety in the workplace, years to come, and really supporting your Garfield County employees.

776
00:57:47,860 --> 00:57:49,300
So thank you for your consideration.

777
00:57:49,820 --> 00:57:50,420
Okay, thank you.

778
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:53,480
Mr. Staff has any additional questions?

779
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:55,680
No, I think I've got it.

780
00:57:56,800 --> 00:57:57,000
Great.

781
00:57:57,580 --> 00:57:58,220
Staff has.

782
00:57:58,660 --> 00:58:03,500
Well, I want to make sure that you get a chance to have a couple of other questions for me.

783
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:04,600
Thank you first of all.

784
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:05,480
Thank you all for coming.

785
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:09,000
I mean, one question I have is I've recently heard, I don't know maybe it was Governor

786
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:14,720
Polis talking about making pinnacle completely private agency, I don't know if anybody else

787
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:15,720
has heard that.

788
00:58:15,900 --> 00:58:20,220
I'm assuming you guys have and I don't know, I'm just wondering if that happens, will

789
00:58:20,220 --> 00:58:21,520
anything change?

790
00:58:22,420 --> 00:58:30,160
What I would share is that Governor Polis added in his budget proposal, the potential separation

791
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:31,760
of pinnacle from the state.

792
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:38,160
This is still very early in the process, that legislative session doesn't even begin until January, so it would be January through May.

793
00:58:38,820 --> 00:58:42,720
This is something that we've seen in the past, it's never come to fruition.

794
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:48,940
I can't speak with a specific likelihood of whether or not that would or could happen.

795
00:58:49,220 --> 00:58:55,300
What I can share is that pinnacle has incredible relationships with community, civic, and industry leaders.

796
00:58:55,700 --> 00:59:00,740
And throughout this process, I think there would probably be very many iterations of

797
00:59:00,740 --> 00:59:02,600
what this could potentially look like.

798
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:09,120
Pinnacle's mission remains the same to make sure that we protect Colorado employers and

799
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:17,020
their employees and I would say that the one struggle pinnacle has not a struggle but

800
00:59:17,020 --> 00:59:21,880
currently as we can only provide that coverage in the state of Colorado, we use a partner

801
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:27,440
insurance agency to be able to provide out of state, but over 50% of Colorado employers

802
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:49,140
Now have out of state employees, especially since COVID and the changing workplace, so our top priority would be to make sure we can continue to meet the needs of Colorado employers that we remain long-term solvent, that we have incredible capital adequacy, and we continue to provide price stability.

803
00:59:49,900 --> 00:59:50,700
Thank you.

804
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:51,340
Absolutely.

805
00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:58,920
My only other question related to the $2,000 deductible, you know, the numbers that you ran,

806
00:59:59,040 --> 00:59:59,960
because I ran actual...

807
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:29,300
We have a lot of numbers that we had got from CTSI and our loss ratio and our loss report. Did you use those numbers or how did you get to that $30,000 number? Because my number was actually lower. We used the view of claims costs over those 10 years. There may be a lack of granularity in the data that we have that could create a difference, I think that would be the most likely reason. And we're happy if you want to take another look at that to get together and fur about that.

808
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:37,740
I mean, it's still $30,000 is not much, my numbers were more like $20,000 or $20,000.

809
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:44,080
And I looked at the 10-year versus just the last three, if that impacts that.

810
01:00:45,020 --> 01:00:50,840
Sarah, I think Jordan talked about the work comp statute, so what is the work comp statute?

811
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:52,300
Great question.

812
01:00:53,740 --> 01:00:55,540
is briefly as you could be.

813
01:00:55,900 --> 01:01:03,900
Yeah, there is a Colorado Workers Comp Act that the state has had for many years, and

814
01:01:03,900 --> 01:01:08,620
that is what governs a lot of what we do, how we do it.

815
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:15,140
So we are, again, the Colorado experts in doing that, but it identifies fee schedules for

816
01:01:15,140 --> 01:01:17,640
what providers can charge for claims.

817
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:23,620
It identifies the timelines that we have where it's, hey, once we get a claim in, and

818
01:01:23,620 --> 01:01:28,560
we recognize there's lost time, we have 20 days to determine whether or not it's a

819
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:33,560
compensable claim, so that's our opportunity to research the claim and get all the information

820
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:34,400
we can from use.

821
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:36,820
The employer to determine is this truly workplace injury.

822
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:43,120
There's a lot of different requirements, time frames, within that Colorado work compact that

823
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:43,640
we follow.

824
01:01:44,260 --> 01:01:44,780
Okay.

825
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:45,140
Thank you.

826
01:01:45,140 --> 01:01:54,080
Absolutely. Any other questions? Thank you for the presentation. Thank you very much.

827
01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:56,760
Thank you for having us. The whole team being here. Thank you for your time.

828
01:01:57,400 --> 01:01:58,300
Thank you. Thank you.

829
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:02,840
And you're welcome to stay if you want to listen to CTSI.

830
01:02:05,930 --> 01:02:10,250
Okay, so let's take you. Yeah, I want to take it.

831
01:02:10,250 --> 01:02:11,110
First of all, very correct.

832
01:02:11,290 --> 01:02:13,170
CTS, I get set up.

833
01:02:13,670 --> 01:02:14,110
Yeah, thanks.

834
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:28,940
Good, thanks, Shelley.

835
01:02:30,700 --> 01:02:35,660
Okay, we're back on the air from our recess, and I'll turn it back to you, Fred, through

836
01:02:35,660 --> 01:02:36,220
the introductions.

837
01:02:37,140 --> 01:02:43,560
Commissioners, on your Zoom, we have Meredith Birchim and Rhonda Kran to present to you for

838
01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:44,520
CTS, I.

839
01:02:45,060 --> 01:02:47,140
And I think I see both of you on the screen.

840
01:02:49,220 --> 01:02:51,480
Welcome, and we also see your slides.

841
01:02:51,480 --> 01:02:53,240
So, hopefully we can hear you.

842
01:02:54,380 --> 01:02:55,340
Yes, good morning.

843
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:56,040
Can you hear us?

844
01:02:56,360 --> 01:02:57,880
We can hear you just fine.

845
01:02:58,200 --> 01:02:58,760
Thank you.

846
01:02:58,980 --> 01:02:59,200
Okay.

847
01:02:59,740 --> 01:03:00,060
Great.

848
01:03:01,340 --> 01:03:04,640
I want to point out that I sent a files over,

849
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:06,680
and they had numbers on them in the titles.

850
01:03:06,900 --> 01:03:09,340
It was the original order that we were going to present in.

851
01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:11,820
We've kind of moved a couple of them around.

852
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:13,580
So if you're looking at your packet,

853
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:16,180
this is actually on the screen right now,

854
01:03:16,180 --> 01:03:17,680
is files six.

855
01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:18,980
You can't get more local.

856
01:03:19,820 --> 01:03:29,840
Okay, and we can see your presentation if we can see in front of us, so.

857
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:31,840
Okay. Okay.

858
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:35,880
Okay, well, good morning.

859
01:03:35,940 --> 01:03:41,820
We want to thank you for giving us another opportunity to come and speak to you about your county workers compensation pool.

860
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:46,720
I'm Meredith Burcham, the obviously CTSI executive director,

861
01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:51,000
I've been here for about 22 years, and I have with me, again, Rhonda,

862
01:03:51,500 --> 01:03:53,800
her and she came with me up in September.

863
01:03:54,040 --> 01:03:59,220
She's our risk manager here at CTSI.

864
01:04:00,660 --> 01:04:06,820
First of all, just a reminder that the polls were formed by county commissioners in the 1980s

865
01:04:06,820 --> 01:04:15,500
to provide coverage to share resources with similar risk which we know are among just counties.

866
01:04:16,540 --> 01:04:19,240
County workers' compensation pool is only made up of counties.

867
01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:26,220
They're also meant to provide more of a long term commitment to our members

868
01:04:26,820 --> 01:04:34,220
and has been able to prove that's been successful and CWCP is financially sound since its inception.

869
01:04:34,900 --> 01:04:39,680
Garfield County has also been a member since the pools were formed and we value your membership.

870
01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:46,440
As well, we will show you a little bit later in our presentation some of the savings that you

871
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:53,740
all have reached through the years and have benefited from as well as the stability and long-term

872
01:04:53,740 --> 01:05:00,180
benefits that Garfield County has received for many years. Pools are unique and different from

873
01:05:00,180 --> 01:05:04,920
careers. They are owned and operated by its members, which are you, the counties.

874
01:05:05,980 --> 01:05:10,980
The way that the pools are structured is that the board of county commissioners

875
01:05:10,980 --> 01:05:15,140
sign intergovernmental agreements to enter the pool. So you're signing on to

876
01:05:15,700 --> 01:05:20,840
bylaws that all members have to adhere to. Each pool that's under CTSI,

877
01:05:21,220 --> 01:05:26,600
you can see WCP is no different than the other two. In fact, that they have seven board members

878
01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:31,500
members that are made up of county commissioners from the member counties as well.

879
01:05:32,660 --> 01:05:35,320
There's no profit motive within the pools.

880
01:05:35,740 --> 01:05:40,540
They are run differently than carriers in which there's no cash flow.

881
01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:45,940
We have to operate in a basis where we fully fund our pools for the upcoming year.

882
01:05:46,900 --> 01:05:52,060
The equity that is carried by the pools, we do report to the division of insurance just

883
01:05:52,060 --> 01:05:55,020
to let them know where we're standing with our equity.

884
01:05:55,020 --> 01:06:00,400
There are certain pool statutes that we have to fall and adhere to, but at the end of

885
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:06,660
the day, the equity belongs to the members, and the way that we and staff looks at that

886
01:06:06,660 --> 01:06:12,280
is we look at that each year to determine an amount of equity that we can distribute to

887
01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:17,340
be able to hold down those costs and contributions for all the counties that are members within

888
01:06:17,340 --> 01:06:17,700
the pool.

889
01:06:19,140 --> 01:06:23,580
In addition to that, in creating the operations of the pools, the county's best interests

890
01:06:23,580 --> 01:06:25,700
are kept as the driver and the main focus.

891
01:06:26,620 --> 01:06:30,740
What we do is we provide coverage that you all need to do your day-to-day operations

892
01:06:31,560 --> 01:06:37,600
within your counties and obviously providing any value added services in addition to what we provide

893
01:06:38,260 --> 01:06:41,120
with your coverage that you need within workers' compensation

894
01:06:42,100 --> 01:06:45,180
to be able to meet those needs and accomplish that.

895
01:06:46,100 --> 01:06:51,880
In saying that, the way that the pools are structured is also unique to carriers

896
01:06:51,880 --> 01:07:05,740
And that we have a formula that was created to be able to collect contributions from our members to be able to cover the losses that come in and any overhead that we have to be able to operate the pools.

897
01:07:07,960 --> 01:07:13,340
Do you then purchase, I guess, a be excess insurance? I'm not sure if that's correct.

898
01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:24,200
for good claims. Yes, we do. We have a pool layer of 875,000 and then we purchase excess coverage

899
01:07:24,200 --> 01:07:31,220
above that and we currently are with ARCH and we've been with them for probably the last 10 years

900
01:07:31,220 --> 01:07:37,700
that we do look at that annually with our broker to look at, you know, if there's any other carriers

901
01:07:37,700 --> 01:07:43,780
in which we can get you know a better rate for that excess coverage. We've been able to keep that

902
01:07:43,780 --> 01:07:52,040
minimal for the last several years based upon our pools combined exposure and losses as well.

903
01:07:53,340 --> 01:08:01,760
But in saying that so we do not actually utilize our EMOD for our formula. We have the formula that

904
01:08:01,760 --> 01:08:08,520
meets the county's needs in which we subtractured it and so Ron is actually a little bit going to

905
01:08:08,520 --> 01:08:12,540
kind of walk through that in a little bit more detail but just to give you kind of a high level

906
01:08:13,820 --> 01:08:17,600
understanding of how the formula works and we do not individually underwrite

907
01:08:18,300 --> 01:08:22,920
of each county they're sharing within the formula as pools are designed to be sharing and cost

908
01:08:23,740 --> 01:08:30,340
we use three years of losses and then we also use two-year-old payroll data so it's matured

909
01:08:30,340 --> 01:08:36,520
And what is also different about that is that when the commissioners work together with

910
01:08:37,320 --> 01:08:40,800
CWCP to set up our formula, they didn't want any surprises.

911
01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:45,360
They have to submit and use their budgets and they wanted to know exactly what they were

912
01:08:45,360 --> 01:08:48,140
going to have to pay for the upcoming year.

913
01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:51,540
And so therefore we do not do any 18 month audits.

914
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:55,620
If you have, you know, throughout the year, you might have changes.

915
01:08:55,620 --> 01:08:57,840
is obviously within your payroll,

916
01:08:58,240 --> 01:09:00,540
if you have promotions, raises, what not.

917
01:09:01,320 --> 01:09:06,580
And therefore we just use your two year full mature data

918
01:09:06,580 --> 01:09:07,740
so we don't have to come back

919
01:09:07,740 --> 01:09:09,980
and collect any additional money

920
01:09:09,980 --> 01:09:12,320
like sometimes often other carriers do.

921
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:14,440
So I think that's also important to understand

922
01:09:15,020 --> 01:09:18,680
why that structure was put in place as well.

923
01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:21,360
As I mentioned, we do not,

924
01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:23,920
so we do not actually file that in CCI,

925
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:31,160
We are regulated by the division of our insurance, so we do have to file taxes with them and follow

926
01:09:31,160 --> 01:09:36,860
workers' compensation statutes, but we only use the EMOD for the pool-wide when we have to file

927
01:09:36,860 --> 01:09:43,340
those taxes. We use our formula and how we establish contributions for each member for each upcoming

928
01:09:43,340 --> 01:09:49,400
year. And like I said, Ron, the homework on that a little bit more and go through that. As far as

929
01:09:49,400 --> 01:09:54,600
County deductibles, the way that pools are structured and pool statues, there has to be

930
01:09:54,600 --> 01:10:00,540
sharing of costs within the lost fund. And therefore, the pools actually have every

931
01:10:00,540 --> 01:10:07,480
county have a different individual deductible, does not meet that requirement. So we do not

932
01:10:07,480 --> 01:10:13,660
have a small deductible such as a 2000. We did mention to you that we are able to do some

933
01:10:13,660 --> 01:10:19,640
of the higher deductibles, if it works, but way that we're set up for counties is so

934
01:10:19,640 --> 01:10:23,400
that you are able to have lower contributions.

935
01:10:23,580 --> 01:10:28,960
You have one payment that you make for the upcoming year for your contribution, and you

936
01:10:28,960 --> 01:10:33,480
don't have any other deductibles throughout the year for any of your claims that come

937
01:10:33,480 --> 01:10:33,640
in.

938
01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:33,860
Okay.

939
01:10:34,500 --> 01:10:37,880
So on our payment, then it's a lump sum payment.

940
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:42,920
It's not you not we're not making monthly payments based on payroll

941
01:10:44,100 --> 01:10:53,880
Is that correct that I heard that? Okay, have you ever have we ever kicked out a county for poor poor performance?

942
01:10:55,060 --> 01:11:02,620
We actually have not it takes them within the violence it takes a vote by two-thirds of the members to actually expel

943
01:11:03,290 --> 01:11:03,980
a county

944
01:11:04,680 --> 01:11:06,520
from the pools and so

945
01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:12,500
So one thing I think that is also important is that all members of the pools within the

946
01:11:12,500 --> 01:11:18,680
bylaws and that they sign in their intercom meeting agreements is that they will put in

947
01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:23,580
good risk management and we have not had any counties that have not followed that.

948
01:11:24,240 --> 01:11:30,320
Most of them are actually all of them are cooperative and implementing the training and policies

949
01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:36,440
that our loss control recommends and we work with them to make sure that we have those

950
01:11:36,440 --> 01:11:43,160
in place, and so it's not an issue, but that is there, but it's very difficult to do

951
01:11:43,160 --> 01:11:47,220
or get expelled from the pool, in that sense.

952
01:11:47,420 --> 01:11:53,100
Then my next question is, explain the higher deductibles to us, what is that?

953
01:11:55,320 --> 01:12:03,540
So there was probably about, I guess it's been about the 10 years ago, that we had some larger

954
01:12:03,540 --> 01:12:08,480
counties approach the pool, you know, is there any way that we could have a large deductible

955
01:12:08,480 --> 01:12:15,260
option in which we get a reimbursement for that amount to help kind of keep down their payment

956
01:12:15,260 --> 01:12:21,480
into the last one? And so at the time they analyze that internally and making sure they were within

957
01:12:22,440 --> 01:12:27,860
the pool regulations of what we could do and we're able to come up with the fact that they could

958
01:12:27,860 --> 01:12:34,980
have a higher deductible option with the still portion of that is sharing into

959
01:12:34,980 --> 01:12:40,800
the main fund of the pool. But it's not a self-insured option. It's still being

960
01:12:40,800 --> 01:12:43,880
a member of the pool. You're just the way that you're handling it is you're

961
01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:48,480
offsetting what you pay into the lost fund by taking on those first dollar claims

962
01:12:48,480 --> 01:12:54,420
that come in. And we analyze that for different counties. I know with CAP it works

963
01:12:54,420 --> 01:13:00,500
well for you all. I think in CWCP when analyzing it, I'm not sure if it was beneficial at this

964
01:13:00,500 --> 01:13:08,380
time. It was cheaper to just stay as a regular member of funding into the loss fund for your

965
01:13:08,380 --> 01:13:10,540
contributions. Okay, thank you.

966
01:13:12,670 --> 01:13:17,050
You're welcome. As far as the equity distribution, I think I just

967
01:13:17,050 --> 01:13:23,570
wanted to touch on that a little bit. We look at that and analyze that every year. We are currently

968
01:13:23,570 --> 01:13:32,070
within workers compensation there's 29 million in equity which is a healthy spot. We always want

969
01:13:32,070 --> 01:13:37,210
to make sure we're not collecting too much to build up the equity because we want to make sure

970
01:13:37,210 --> 01:13:42,570
that you have that money when you need it. So we analyze that annually and look at that and see if

971
01:13:42,570 --> 01:13:47,830
it needs to be adjusted as far as what we collected to the lost fund and working with our actuaries

972
01:13:48,950 --> 01:13:51,370
taking a conservative approach on that.

973
01:13:52,490 --> 01:13:53,630
So in looking at it this year,

974
01:13:53,810 --> 01:13:56,730
we were able to actually propose to the board

975
01:13:56,730 --> 01:13:59,430
to give back four million equity distribution

976
01:13:59,430 --> 01:14:00,410
for this next year.

977
01:14:01,430 --> 01:14:05,610
Since we are running very well within our losses,

978
01:14:05,950 --> 01:14:08,970
within our rates that we have,

979
01:14:09,850 --> 01:14:11,430
we thought that this would be beneficial

980
01:14:11,430 --> 01:14:13,430
for a lot of the counties out there

981
01:14:13,430 --> 01:14:17,130
to have that deduction in their overall contributions.

982
01:14:19,170 --> 01:14:24,650
As I mentioned, the way that we are structured is to be fully funded, so we have to fully

983
01:14:24,650 --> 01:14:29,710
collect what we, as pools are designed and within our statutes, collect for the upcoming

984
01:14:29,710 --> 01:14:32,670
year, to pay any claims and losses that come in.

985
01:14:32,750 --> 01:14:34,090
I think that's important to understand.

986
01:14:34,250 --> 01:14:37,610
We cannot write loss leaders and we don't have cash flow.

987
01:14:38,090 --> 01:14:40,190
It's on a fully funded basis.

988
01:14:40,890 --> 01:14:49,130
As far as classification codes, you know, on this $4 million distribution, that is that

989
01:14:49,130 --> 01:14:53,530
go back against our rates or as an actual cash distribution.

990
01:14:54,370 --> 01:14:58,650
It goes against your actual contribution, yes, rates that you would pay for next year.

991
01:14:58,650 --> 01:14:59,950
So when Rhonda goes through the...

992
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:09,880
That you'll see what your contribution would be without equity distribution and then what your contribution is with the equity distribution. Thank you. Yes.

993
01:15:11,920 --> 01:15:29,860
As far as the classification codes, we do use some the same codes from the NCCI. I don't know we don't have to file directly with them. Again, we also have some unique ones that we have different just for counties. Again, everything we do is for counties and we try to as much as we can, even though we're subject to.

994
01:15:30,480 --> 01:15:36,300
the workers' compensation statues within the state of Colorado, whatever we can do to assist our counties.

995
01:15:36,300 --> 01:15:39,500
We always make sure that we are working for them in that manner.

996
01:15:40,840 --> 01:15:48,320
As far as our claims department that we have, we have in-house claims department here, where we adjudicate the claims.

997
01:15:48,580 --> 01:15:55,800
We have a claims manager, Kurt Mueller, I'm sure you're all familiar with, and then we have three adjusters that sit under him.

998
01:15:55,800 --> 01:16:00,520
and we work directly with our counties when we get claims that come in.

999
01:16:00,700 --> 01:16:04,420
Obviously, we do everything we can to hold down those costs.

1000
01:16:04,700 --> 01:16:09,940
We do, you know, the SSDI, disability, Medicare offsets, whatever we can

1001
01:16:09,940 --> 01:16:14,060
to make sure we're holding down the cost, we work directly with our counties.

1002
01:16:14,280 --> 01:16:18,720
We're obviously our only clients, our members, so we pride ourselves

1003
01:16:18,720 --> 01:16:23,580
in making sure that we are person-formos, providing them with the service

1004
01:16:23,580 --> 01:16:27,920
that they need. We're very sensitive to the fact that you all have local communities,

1005
01:16:28,280 --> 01:16:32,240
and we know that we want to work with the boards of county commissioners and your staff

1006
01:16:32,240 --> 01:16:36,340
to make sure on various claims that come in that we're handling those, how you would like

1007
01:16:36,340 --> 01:16:43,080
for us to handle those. We also have direct communication with claimants to walk them through

1008
01:16:43,680 --> 01:16:49,480
their claim process, and just to be that hands-on experience with them. In addition to that,

1009
01:16:49,480 --> 01:16:53,080
that we also do send out monthly reports.

1010
01:16:53,280 --> 01:16:55,240
We make sure that all the counties know

1011
01:16:55,240 --> 01:16:58,260
how their county's running and how the pool is running

1012
01:16:58,260 --> 01:17:00,580
and how those are in comparison as well.

1013
01:17:01,380 --> 01:17:03,420
I know what we've done with Keith Rice

1014
01:17:03,420 --> 01:17:07,140
and in the past, and if we are continuing to do that,

1015
01:17:07,200 --> 01:17:10,080
is our claims department meets with them monthly

1016
01:17:10,080 --> 01:17:12,740
to kind of go over any claims and open claims

1017
01:17:12,740 --> 01:17:13,580
that might be out there.

1018
01:17:14,300 --> 01:17:16,060
Just to update them on the process,

1019
01:17:16,340 --> 01:17:18,160
we obviously want to close claims

1020
01:17:18,160 --> 01:17:26,420
as quickly as we can. We also want to assist in our return to work programs to get your employees back to work as well.

1021
01:17:27,420 --> 01:17:41,860
So we make sure that we do that as well. We also handle any subrogation. Obviously, we want to recover the funds if we can to hold down the costs for you all and to hold down the costs for the pool as well.

1022
01:17:43,100 --> 01:17:48,060
We continue to also with medical providers that designated medical providers continue

1023
01:17:48,060 --> 01:17:54,420
to work with who we can and that works well with the county to make sure that we can keep

1024
01:17:54,420 --> 01:17:58,880
those costs down, make sure that they're good to work with.

1025
01:17:58,920 --> 01:18:04,180
We know that sometimes in the rural areas there might not be as many options, but we definitely

1026
01:18:04,180 --> 01:18:09,080
want to work with the counties to make sure that they're pleased with who they need to

1027
01:18:09,080 --> 01:18:09,820
work with as well.

1028
01:18:09,820 --> 01:18:16,660
Well, as I mentioned, the by-law state that all members are required to implement good

1029
01:18:16,660 --> 01:18:17,420
risk management.

1030
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:21,380
And so what we do at CTSI is we have lost control services.

1031
01:18:22,200 --> 01:18:27,840
We have a designated lost control, senior lost control specialist assigned to each county

1032
01:18:27,840 --> 01:18:35,540
and they work with them and keeping losses down, making sure that your counties are safe.

1033
01:18:36,200 --> 01:18:37,620
Working alongside with you.

1034
01:18:37,620 --> 01:18:45,160
We work alongside the safety committees to help with that provide quarterly reports to all the counties

1035
01:18:45,160 --> 01:18:51,740
We also drill down to some of the specifics what your frequency and severity are and really try to hone in on

1036
01:18:51,740 --> 01:18:56,520
What trainings we could do to help keep those costs down with your employees?

1037
01:18:57,360 --> 01:18:59,740
In addition to that we have our

1038
01:19:00,960 --> 01:19:02,820
Laws analysis that we do our

1039
01:19:03,420 --> 01:19:07,900
our loss control team meets with every county every year,

1040
01:19:08,020 --> 01:19:09,260
board of county commissioners,

1041
01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:12,560
and presents a loss analysis to them over the last five years,

1042
01:19:12,720 --> 01:19:15,340
and talk specifically about your county,

1043
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:16,420
where your losses are.

1044
01:19:16,920 --> 01:19:18,580
Again, where the pool is at,

1045
01:19:18,740 --> 01:19:19,820
how those are comparison,

1046
01:19:20,260 --> 01:19:23,040
what we're doing to try to keep those costs down

1047
01:19:23,040 --> 01:19:28,060
and how we can work with you all to continue to keep the claims

1048
01:19:28,060 --> 01:19:30,760
down, provide the training that is specific

1049
01:19:30,760 --> 01:19:35,000
to what those main cost drivers are for you all.

1050
01:19:36,340 --> 01:19:40,980
In addition to that, we also just have a variety of

1051
01:19:41,720 --> 01:19:48,030
classes that are specific to workers comp that

1052
01:19:49,090 --> 01:19:54,410
this is just a small sample of that that are tailored to meet our specific needs of counties

1053
01:19:54,410 --> 01:19:59,610
and their county services and how it relates to workers compensation, your economics.

1054
01:19:59,610 --> 01:20:05,310
mix. We might have slips and falls and then also, you know, others that come up, I think

1055
01:20:05,310 --> 01:20:10,190
another thing to point out, we also do M-shot training to help our counties in that

1056
01:20:10,810 --> 01:20:17,310
that that actually might apply to them within their mining or if they have gravel pits, we

1057
01:20:17,310 --> 01:20:23,490
come and do that training, we do Flagler safety training as well. And then really we're always

1058
01:20:23,490 --> 01:20:28,730
open to, you know, feedback on if there is something that you would like to see or something

1059
01:20:28,730 --> 01:20:34,290
implemented. We do our best to try to really tailor that to meet the needs of the members.

1060
01:20:35,510 --> 01:20:41,950
In addition to that, we also do lunch and learns throughout the year. We do different workshops

1061
01:20:41,950 --> 01:20:48,150
specific to and we did one this year specific to workers' compensation and understanding,

1062
01:20:48,510 --> 01:20:52,750
you know, how to file claim. What happens to the claim and anatomy of the claim? What happens when

1063
01:20:52,750 --> 01:20:57,430
a claim comes in from from the beginning to the very end, just so that we're make sure that our

1064
01:20:57,430 --> 01:21:03,770
staff are aware of how those processes work and how they can be a part of that as well.

1065
01:21:04,530 --> 01:21:07,730
In addition to that, we continue to do our tech updates.

1066
01:21:08,250 --> 01:21:14,670
Obviously, we also have our cap pool, but there's some oftentimes crossover between some

1067
01:21:14,670 --> 01:21:15,090
of the two.

1068
01:21:15,310 --> 01:21:21,530
But we also do specific tech updates to workers' compensation and updates on legislation,

1069
01:21:21,530 --> 01:21:26,950
and making sure that, you know, we are in compliance with what we need to be as well.

1070
01:21:30,170 --> 01:21:38,850
Lastly, we also have Siri, Venzel, who is our HR specialist on staff, and I think it's

1071
01:21:38,850 --> 01:21:42,770
important to point out that, you know, a lot of times there is crossover with your workers'

1072
01:21:42,970 --> 01:21:48,550
compensation and HR-related topics that come up.

1073
01:21:48,550 --> 01:21:54,850
And so she's been very instrumental in helping in assisting in those type of issues that arise

1074
01:21:54,850 --> 01:22:00,110
and with the return to work programs and working with our counties specifically

1075
01:22:00,110 --> 01:22:05,250
with the claims department and the counties on workers compensation issues

1076
01:22:05,250 --> 01:22:09,030
and making sure you're doing the HR side as well.

1077
01:22:09,830 --> 01:22:15,210
Another thing too, we also do the accident investigations and that would also tie in with some

1078
01:22:15,210 --> 01:22:24,130
of our loss analysis and when our loss control comes out to talk to you about that and kind

1079
01:22:24,130 --> 01:22:29,650
of looking to see, you know, what can all of our counties do and maybe this county did this

1080
01:22:29,650 --> 01:22:35,730
and it really worked and so how can you implement that? We also like to share within the counties,

1081
01:22:35,730 --> 01:22:41,310
you know, sample policies of what worked for you, what didn't and I think that's important and again

1082
01:22:41,310 --> 01:22:48,470
it just highlights why the county or the county pools were created. They're unique because they

1083
01:22:48,470 --> 01:22:54,210
are only for counties and work with county risk, county exposure meet the needs of the counties

1084
01:22:54,850 --> 01:22:59,890
and trying to keep those costs down and still providing coverage to you to do your day-to-day

1085
01:23:00,510 --> 01:23:11,090
operations. Just in closing before Ronda actually goes into that and I guess one thing we should

1086
01:23:11,090 --> 01:23:18,030
say we did implement a sheriff committee to this last year, so we work, try to work

1087
01:23:18,030 --> 01:23:23,190
closely with the sheriffs for both of the pools and making sure that we're, we understand

1088
01:23:23,190 --> 01:23:29,030
law enforcement has been kind of a hot topic in Colorado and especially obviously in our

1089
01:23:29,030 --> 01:23:33,210
liability, but that also process over obviously to a lot of our claims we see in workers'

1090
01:23:33,570 --> 01:23:33,910
compensation.

1091
01:23:34,850 --> 01:23:39,110
And so we're really trying to work with the sheriffs that we in, in every county to make

1092
01:23:39,110 --> 01:23:43,830
sure that you know they are implementing policies we can assist in training or we're

1093
01:23:45,010 --> 01:23:48,310
sharing those policies again that other counties have and just getting

1094
01:23:48,870 --> 01:23:53,910
sheriffs to kind of communicate and be aware of what's happening as well and it's been very positive

1095
01:23:54,610 --> 01:23:59,730
as far as the feedback that we've received I'm here at CTSI.

1096
01:24:01,130 --> 01:24:05,930
And Meredith can we have a do we have a representative on that committee and sheriff's committee

1097
01:24:08,290 --> 01:24:16,350
We do not at this time, so we kind of started with just four and then we're going to continually

1098
01:24:16,350 --> 01:24:24,710
rotate some different shares on. So if we definitely reach out to him. And then I just want to say

1099
01:24:24,710 --> 01:24:33,190
too that all insurance market cycle, you're going to have hard markets, you're going to have soft markets,

1100
01:24:33,190 --> 01:24:39,490
you're going to have years that you're going to have a lot higher losses and lower losses and

1101
01:24:39,970 --> 01:24:46,150
the theory behind the pools was to provide that stability, to provide a long term benefit,

1102
01:24:46,550 --> 01:24:54,670
to provide no surprises, to provide transparency, to provide the ownership for the counties to have.

1103
01:24:55,010 --> 01:25:02,230
And I think that's just important. I also think it's just important to be transparent and full

1104
01:25:02,230 --> 01:25:09,550
helping out for a short-term gain in counties keep exiting pools then there could be a day

1105
01:25:09,550 --> 01:25:13,290
that comes and there's no capital to start to a pool and there's no more competition

1106
01:25:13,930 --> 01:25:18,050
and they're at the mercy of all carriers. I think it's important to try to preserve

1107
01:25:18,050 --> 01:25:22,530
the pools and work with the counties and the members to try to keep those in place as

1108
01:25:22,530 --> 01:25:28,270
a good means to be able to provide the coverage you need, at the cost you need, well, keeping

1109
01:25:28,270 --> 01:25:36,470
you all in control of that. Again I do also want to say if you do leave the pool and you can

1110
01:25:36,470 --> 01:25:42,890
rejoin at a different time but it will be subject to underwriting and if you know there might be

1111
01:25:42,890 --> 01:25:47,870
higher losses within the bylaws it just say that you will not bring in any member that could have

1112
01:25:47,870 --> 01:25:53,390
a negative adverse impact financially on the pool so for some reason you were to get kicked out

1113
01:25:53,390 --> 01:25:57,970
by another carry because you had high losses obviously then the pool would have to take that

1114
01:25:57,970 --> 01:26:02,470
consideration. So definitely not a threat or anything. I just want to provide the full

1115
01:26:02,990 --> 01:26:07,110
disclosure of how basically how the pools are operated and how they were structured and set

1116
01:26:07,110 --> 01:26:13,010
up within their bylaws. But I'm going to turn it over to Ronda. She's going to go through

1117
01:26:13,010 --> 01:26:19,590
a little bit more deeper diet into the actual formula and what that looks like specifically for Garfield

1118
01:26:19,590 --> 01:26:26,070
County. Okay, thanks. Okay. As you know, I'm Ronda Kern and I've been with CTSI for four years

1119
01:26:26,070 --> 01:26:31,990
and prior to that for 29 years I was in the Actuarial World so I do a lot of

1120
01:26:31,990 --> 01:26:37,290
the number crunching over here. The first one we're going to look at is Garfield

1121
01:26:37,290 --> 01:26:42,970
County's savings over the years and at the top section of this it shows 10

1122
01:26:42,970 --> 01:26:46,730
years and it's just showing what your contribution was before equity

1123
01:26:46,730 --> 01:26:52,270
distribution and then the equity distribution as you can see has increased over

1124
01:26:52,270 --> 01:26:55,590
over the years and then what your contribution was after equity.

1125
01:26:57,070 --> 01:27:02,910
And as Meredith said, each year is not the same amount of equity that's being distributed

1126
01:27:03,330 --> 01:27:04,530
in total for the pool.

1127
01:27:04,710 --> 01:27:09,110
It depends on the health of the pool, each year, and that's the category.

1128
01:27:09,410 --> 01:27:10,470
Can you scroll that up?

1129
01:27:10,570 --> 01:27:12,890
We can only see through 2022 on that.

1130
01:27:14,050 --> 01:27:16,290
Is there the more numbers for 23?

1131
01:27:16,670 --> 01:27:17,090
Yeah, 23?

1132
01:27:17,410 --> 01:27:17,630
Okay.

1133
01:27:17,790 --> 01:27:18,090
Thank you.

1134
01:27:18,650 --> 01:27:19,130
Okay.

1135
01:27:19,470 --> 01:27:20,430
Thanks for pointing that out.

1136
01:27:20,430 --> 01:27:26,010
So the amount we distribute each year in equity varies depending on the strength of the pool

1137
01:27:26,010 --> 01:27:33,430
and as Verde said, CWCP is, excuse me, really strong right now so we are able to distribute

1138
01:27:33,430 --> 01:27:36,650
$4 million, pardon me for a sip of water.

1139
01:27:38,390 --> 01:27:45,590
And so will that $4 million be similar to the 2024 equity distribution?

1140
01:27:46,750 --> 01:27:51,530
Yeah, 2025 is $4 million at this point, it's supposed to be voted on by the board.

1141
01:27:52,050 --> 01:27:58,830
2024, we distributed $3 million, and 2023 was also $3 million, and I don't have the

1142
01:27:58,830 --> 01:28:02,930
years prior to that memorized, but I believe they were less than $3 million.

1143
01:28:03,970 --> 01:28:04,470
Okay, great.

1144
01:28:05,550 --> 01:28:12,290
And then the lower section is all the contributions that Garfield County has made for all the

1145
01:28:12,290 --> 01:28:15,930
years that they've been in the pool, which you've been in the pool since inception.

1146
01:28:16,550 --> 01:28:21,750
So in 1985 through 2024, $16.3 million is what you've contributed.

1147
01:28:22,810 --> 01:28:27,510
And the total equity distribution for Garfield was $1.17 million.

1148
01:28:28,610 --> 01:28:31,350
And then the 7% is the return on investment.

1149
01:28:31,550 --> 01:28:35,910
So it's the $1.17 million divided by the $16.3 million.

1150
01:28:37,170 --> 01:28:44,810
The remaining equity that Garfield County has in the pool to date is $1.75 million.

1151
01:28:47,450 --> 01:28:53,350
And then the total equity, if you look at what we distributed, the $1.17 plus the remaining

1152
01:28:53,350 --> 01:28:56,550
gets you $2.9 million in equity for Garfield County.

1153
01:28:56,870 --> 01:29:05,710
So Rhonda, if we do change carriers and there's that equity out there, then we just, we lose

1154
01:29:05,710 --> 01:29:14,530
Is that equity? Is that because it goes back in against your contribution? Is that correct?

1155
01:29:14,990 --> 01:29:18,270
Would we lose that equity or would there be a payout to us?

1156
01:29:19,150 --> 01:29:24,710
Well, we hang on to the equity until all workers' compensation claims for Garfield County are closed.

1157
01:29:25,190 --> 01:29:27,570
Okay. And I'll let you speak to that.

1158
01:29:27,570 --> 01:29:36,310
And then within the bylaws it does state that there has to be if you after that happened and there was equity left for

1159
01:29:36,310 --> 01:29:44,750
say Garfield County, you can have to go through the board and the members to get a, you know, about to distribute that equity.

1160
01:29:45,490 --> 01:29:56,910
The other piece of that too is that if you were to rejoin the pool, say in five years or something, then that equity that was still in there

1161
01:29:56,910 --> 01:29:59,970
then would be used to offset your contribution to come back.

1162
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:02,120
Second. All right, thank you.

1163
01:30:04,240 --> 01:30:22,560
So just the last number, oh, sorry. Sorry. So while we're here, this is how they're, if I could just ask a question about that, do all the claims have to be closed, all the indemnity claims have to be closed in order to request that equity refunded. So if the claim stays open for another 10 years, we couldn't ask for it for 10 more years. You are correct. Okay. Yes.

1164
01:30:24,820 --> 01:30:27,100
And just the last number on the bottom of the page.

1165
01:30:27,100 --> 01:30:29,160
I think we need to scroll down a little bit there.

1166
01:30:31,360 --> 01:30:40,180
Is the total equity as a percent of total contributions, and that's 18% since the inception of Garfield in the fall since 1985.

1167
01:30:43,170 --> 01:30:46,910
So how do you get to the 18% from the 7% to the 18%?

1168
01:30:48,310 --> 01:30:52,350
The 7% was, well the 18% is all of the equity.

1169
01:30:52,570 --> 01:30:57,630
So the amount that's been distributed to Garfield County, which is the second number down in the lower box.

1170
01:30:57,630 --> 01:31:05,430
is the $1,171 plus the remaining equity that Garfield County has, which is the $1,749.

1171
01:31:07,270 --> 01:31:13,430
So that gets you a total equity of $2.9 million, and we divide that by the total contributions

1172
01:31:13,430 --> 01:31:14,370
over all of the years.

1173
01:31:14,550 --> 01:31:20,070
So it's the $2.92 million divided by the $16.3 million.

1174
01:31:20,070 --> 01:31:25,210
So how do we get to the remaining, how do we get to the remaining equity?

1175
01:31:25,670 --> 01:31:28,250
I mean, that's a big number.

1176
01:31:30,700 --> 01:31:36,380
Yes, well, it's very complicated formula, but it basically, it's looked at each, for

1177
01:31:36,380 --> 01:31:41,660
each year, a number of equity, a remaining equity comes up and it's based on, partly based

1178
01:31:41,660 --> 01:31:50,200
on Garfield County's percent of losses as a percent of the loss fund for the pool for

1179
01:31:50,200 --> 01:31:51,360
that particular year.

1180
01:31:53,400 --> 01:31:57,160
So then you have this much equity for, you know, 1985 and then

1181
01:31:57,160 --> 01:32:04,760
we look at that again for 1986 and looking at all the years, 85 to 2000 board gets you

1182
01:32:04,760 --> 01:32:12,100
that remaining equity of the 1.7 million. So is that part of the pool? I mean, okay.

1183
01:32:14,560 --> 01:32:18,640
And if anybody wants some more detailed explanation of that, we can do it on a separate call and

1184
01:32:18,640 --> 01:32:21,020
I can walk you through how those equity numbers are determined.

1185
01:32:25,160 --> 01:32:31,600
Now we're going to look at in some detail the 2025 contribution formula and

1186
01:32:35,820 --> 01:32:36,320
I sent one

1187
01:32:36,320 --> 01:32:36,940
over originally.

1188
01:32:37,500 --> 01:32:38,760
Yeah, we have it.

1189
01:32:38,940 --> 01:32:39,660
So thank you.

1190
01:32:40,280 --> 01:32:40,620
Good.

1191
01:32:40,700 --> 01:32:45,020
I sent it revised one because I thought it would be easier for you to relate to if you can

1192
01:32:45,020 --> 01:32:50,360
see actual Garfield numbers on the right rather than just the words on the left there.

1193
01:32:51,460 --> 01:32:53,560
So we start with the manual premium.

1194
01:32:53,560 --> 01:33:00,720
So we get that by looking at actual 2023 payroll as Meredith explained earlier we used two years back

1195
01:33:02,120 --> 01:33:06,980
Times a rate per class code and that gets us the manual premium

1196
01:33:06,980 --> 01:33:11,020
So it's actually hundreds hundreds of dollars of payroll times the rate

1197
01:33:11,020 --> 01:33:14,740
So the total payroll or Garfield County for 2023

1198
01:33:15,560 --> 01:33:22,220
37.9 million which you'll see over to the right and then the manual premium that we're using in the

1199
01:33:22,220 --> 01:33:27,480
the 2025 contribution formula is 784,574.

1200
01:33:29,060 --> 01:33:30,520
And then we have a loss rate.

1201
01:33:31,120 --> 01:33:33,180
And if you want to look down to the bottom right,

1202
01:33:34,560 --> 01:33:36,100
those are actual Garfield numbers

1203
01:33:36,100 --> 01:33:38,540
and how we calculated the loss rate.

1204
01:33:39,020 --> 01:33:45,460
So we looked at three years of losses, 2020, 2021 and 2022.

1205
01:33:48,020 --> 01:33:50,940
And then we also look at three years of manual premium.

1206
01:33:50,940 --> 01:33:56,900
So we're coming up with Garfield County's percent of losses as compared to the entire pool

1207
01:33:57,580 --> 01:34:00,940
Which in the lower part of that box is 3.85%

1208
01:34:01,640 --> 01:34:05,760
We do a similar calculation for the exposure which is the manual premium

1209
01:34:06,400 --> 01:34:08,100
So for those three years

1210
01:34:08,100 --> 01:34:14,300
Garfield County's manual premium was 6.4 3% of the total pool manual premium

1211
01:34:15,400 --> 01:34:22,180
And then we divide, we do 3.85% divided by the 6.43%, and that gets you your loss rate,

1212
01:34:22,440 --> 01:34:25,160
which is 0.6 for Garfield County specifically.

1213
01:34:26,100 --> 01:34:30,160
Then that loss rate is then looked up in a table, which you'll see over to the left in

1214
01:34:30,160 --> 01:34:33,220
the middle there, loss factor table in light green.

1215
01:34:34,220 --> 01:34:41,840
So, if you look up your 0.6, which gives you the lowest loss rate factor that we have in

1216
01:34:41,840 --> 01:34:44,640
contribution formula, which is the .92.

1217
01:34:47,130 --> 01:34:49,550
So then, so this is kind of like an

1218
01:34:49,550 --> 01:34:53,730
experience, it's not an experience mob, it's kind of like this is the one way we

1219
01:34:53,730 --> 01:35:01,570
get to our individual losses and compared to the pool, is that? Yes, absolutely.

1220
01:35:02,130 --> 01:35:09,030
Yep. And then, you know, so if you have a bad year, say 2020, which is the first

1221
01:35:09,030 --> 01:35:12,410
year of the three, and that was a bad year, it's going to fall off next year.

1222
01:35:12,410 --> 01:35:15,550
because we move it, you know, and it's going to fall off, it's going to fall off.

1223
01:35:15,710 --> 01:35:16,710
But it works the other way too.

1224
01:35:16,850 --> 01:35:20,470
As it does in the experienced mod, as well, right, three years.

1225
01:35:21,570 --> 01:35:21,750
Yep.

1226
01:35:24,530 --> 01:35:30,030
And then, so we have your .92 loss factor, that gets multiplied by the manual premium, and

1227
01:35:30,030 --> 01:35:34,370
that gives you your initial contribution, and you'll see that in the top box to the right,

1228
01:35:34,750 --> 01:35:37,470
the $721,808.

1229
01:35:37,470 --> 01:35:44,330
dollars. And then that gets lowered by the equity distribution, which you'll see in that

1230
01:35:44,330 --> 01:35:53,410
same box. A little lower is $249,136 specific to Garfield County. And that gives you right

1231
01:35:53,410 --> 01:36:00,510
now an estimated 2025 contribution of 472, 673.

1232
01:36:04,640 --> 01:36:05,940
Do you have any questions on that?

1233
01:36:06,760 --> 01:36:12,880
no it's complicated. Again I'm and and any other time if you want to do a you

1234
01:36:12,880 --> 01:36:18,160
know a side call I would love to walk through this. Yeah I mean I follow that kind of

1235
01:36:18,160 --> 01:36:24,060
but it's it is complicated. Yep just let me know if it wants to know more and

1236
01:36:24,060 --> 01:36:31,420
I'm happy to do go through that. And then just I'm looking at the revised 2025

1237
01:36:31,420 --> 01:36:38,320
25 contribution that we sent to you, I guess a week or two ago.

1238
01:36:39,860 --> 01:36:46,240
So basically the first two numbers are 2024 contribution and 2025 contribution before

1239
01:36:46,240 --> 01:36:46,800
equity.

1240
01:36:48,280 --> 01:36:55,720
And then the 2025 equity we just talked about, and that gets us to the 472673 that I discussed

1241
01:36:55,720 --> 01:36:56,580
on the other page.

1242
01:36:56,580 --> 01:37:03,780
Then you can see in the next box the payroll, we used actual 2022 payroll last year,

1243
01:37:04,220 --> 01:37:09,500
actual 2023 payroll this year, so there was a 12% payroll increase for Garfield County

1244
01:37:10,020 --> 01:37:13,820
used in the contribution formula and those again are audited payroll.

1245
01:37:15,780 --> 01:37:23,900
Manual premium decreased in 2025 compared to 2024, many of the rates that we use from NCCI

1246
01:37:23,900 --> 01:37:25,560
had decreased since last year.

1247
01:37:25,560 --> 01:37:31,120
So, the manual premium ended up decreasing 2% even though there was an increase in payroll.

1248
01:37:32,700 --> 01:37:40,600
Then you can see the loss rate, big difference in the loss rate, 2024 it was 0.96 and this

1249
01:37:40,600 --> 01:37:41,640
year it's 0.6.

1250
01:37:42,480 --> 01:37:46,840
So, that ends up with different loss factors because you moved to a different spot in the

1251
01:37:46,840 --> 01:37:47,160
table.

1252
01:37:47,380 --> 01:37:48,120
So, last year?

1253
01:37:48,260 --> 01:37:50,060
And that's based on the three-year average, correct?

1254
01:37:50,900 --> 01:37:51,420
Yes.

1255
01:37:51,920 --> 01:38:04,100
Yeah, so you must have had the year that dropped off must have been not a great year for Garfield County so it was you it helped your calculation this year to get to your point six. It was definitely in your favor.

1256
01:38:05,840 --> 01:38:13,640
So then we look at the factor that's associated with that loss rate. Last year it was 0.98 and it went down to 0.92 this year.

1257
01:38:13,640 --> 01:38:15,980
So again, really good news on that.

1258
01:38:18,210 --> 01:38:23,490
And then the second page of that, I won't spend time going through all this detail.

1259
01:38:23,490 --> 01:38:28,350
You have it, but it's just looking at everything by classification.

1260
01:38:29,170 --> 01:38:34,030
If you wanted to look at cooks and kitchen staff, you could see what their payroll was, what

1261
01:38:34,030 --> 01:38:39,930
their manual premium was, equity distribution, and what their portion of the total contribution

1262
01:38:39,930 --> 01:38:42,870
for 2025 is by classification.

1263
01:38:44,310 --> 01:38:49,750
So when you add all those up, there's not a total line there, but it's the 472-673 that

1264
01:38:49,750 --> 01:38:50,730
we discussed earlier.

1265
01:38:54,900 --> 01:38:55,660
Do you have any questions?

1266
01:38:57,040 --> 01:38:57,860
No, thank you.

1267
01:38:59,100 --> 01:38:59,560
You're welcome.

1268
01:38:59,720 --> 01:39:03,880
I guess we have coasts in the sheriff's office.

1269
01:39:05,420 --> 01:39:06,840
Tom, I had a question if I could.

1270
01:39:08,160 --> 01:39:08,940
Rhonda, this is Fred.

1271
01:39:09,200 --> 01:39:12,140
I wanted to go back just to make sure I understood it.

1272
01:39:12,140 --> 01:39:18,860
When you were describing the total equity and how that is distributed back to counties,

1273
01:39:19,060 --> 01:39:25,620
should a county elect to leave the pool when we were listening to the previous presentation,

1274
01:39:25,620 --> 01:39:30,080
they talked about the dividend program that would automatically come back to a county,

1275
01:39:30,200 --> 01:39:34,160
should they leave, whether that's 18 to 24 months out.

1276
01:39:34,160 --> 01:39:44,640
And I heard you say that in this instance, should the county elect to leave the pool, the remaining equity is 1.7,

1277
01:39:46,700 --> 01:39:55,880
and that to obtain those dollars absent any active workman's comp claims, that that's a decision by your board.

1278
01:39:56,400 --> 01:39:59,500
Do I hear you right? And is that the number? I don't think so.

1279
01:39:59,520 --> 01:40:00,320
That is the number.

1280
01:40:00,700 --> 01:40:02,020
I don't think we get those dollars back.

1281
01:40:02,540 --> 01:40:06,060
Well, it would take a long time, because I mean, we actually have a claim that's open

1282
01:40:06,060 --> 01:40:07,440
since like 2010.

1283
01:40:08,200 --> 01:40:11,020
That's an indemnity claim, so that's what I'm saying.

1284
01:40:11,380 --> 01:40:12,060
We need to be married.

1285
01:40:13,280 --> 01:40:17,700
It would take a long time if that claim isn't closed, so that's why I asked that question.

1286
01:40:18,300 --> 01:40:24,000
You know, if all the claims have to be closed, including the indemnity claims, that could

1287
01:40:24,000 --> 01:40:24,580
be a long time.

1288
01:40:27,060 --> 01:40:27,560
That's correct.

1289
01:40:27,720 --> 01:40:32,660
And then the second part of that specific to your question, Fred, yes, it gets voted on

1290
01:40:32,660 --> 01:40:39,580
by the board or the members and that would be the next step and I don't think there's any reason

1291
01:40:39,580 --> 01:40:44,000
that it would not go back to you. Okay, vote it on. The point is just that it has to be voted on

1292
01:40:44,000 --> 01:40:49,020
and because it issued money so it would go back to you. But the important thing is that if you have

1293
01:40:49,020 --> 01:40:53,400
open claims we have to hang on to that because they're open and if something could happen

1294
01:40:54,140 --> 01:41:00,520
they could blow up. It's not likely but could definitely happen depending too on the age of them

1295
01:41:00,520 --> 01:41:05,740
And if you were to leave the pool and you had a claim that was just from this year, that's

1296
01:41:05,740 --> 01:41:06,860
indemnity and it's open.

1297
01:41:07,080 --> 01:41:12,180
I mean, there's a lot that still needs to happen over time that could change the value

1298
01:41:12,180 --> 01:41:12,700
of that claim.

1299
01:41:12,900 --> 01:41:15,600
So we have to have that money there to pay that out.

1300
01:41:16,760 --> 01:41:17,160
Yeah.

1301
01:41:17,340 --> 01:41:17,580
Understood.

1302
01:41:17,780 --> 01:41:18,400
Thank you for that.

1303
01:41:18,960 --> 01:41:19,580
You're welcome.

1304
01:41:23,330 --> 01:41:23,730
Okay.

1305
01:41:23,790 --> 01:41:25,490
Go ahead and continue, Rhonda.

1306
01:41:27,820 --> 01:41:30,380
I'm all set on my numbers presentation.

1307
01:41:32,770 --> 01:41:34,050
So we got the bottom line number.

1308
01:41:34,110 --> 01:41:34,550
Thank you.

1309
01:41:34,550 --> 01:41:36,010
That's the one we're looking at.

1310
01:41:36,730 --> 01:41:36,990
Yes.

1311
01:41:38,730 --> 01:41:39,130
Okay.

1312
01:41:39,650 --> 01:41:40,890
And then we're scrolling up.

1313
01:41:41,210 --> 01:41:44,530
I think that's really, this is just the last sheet that was in your packet.

1314
01:41:44,530 --> 01:41:49,350
I've already highlighted all these things, but just kind of pointing out some of, you know, the differences with

1315
01:41:49,350 --> 01:41:54,810
and what's unique to the pool and why, you know, it structured the way it is.

1316
01:41:55,110 --> 01:41:59,610
And, you know, we, that's what we have for you today as far as our presentation.

1317
01:42:00,610 --> 01:42:06,610
If you have any question, we definitely would take those now, or if you have any that

1318
01:42:06,610 --> 01:42:10,030
come up later, we're obviously happy to work through anything.

1319
01:42:10,330 --> 01:42:16,690
Obviously, the pools are very transparent, and we try to provide as much education as we

1320
01:42:16,690 --> 01:42:22,370
can to really how they operate and how they're structured and how they're funded, and so that

1321
01:42:22,370 --> 01:42:27,450
you understand and how it works and where your dollars are going and how those are being utilized.

1322
01:42:28,870 --> 01:42:38,890
Okay, thank you, Annette, were you on the line when Fred talked about the process, our decision-making process, as far as board commissioners?

1323
01:42:39,210 --> 01:42:40,150
We were not, no.

1324
01:42:40,570 --> 01:42:41,850
Fred, do you want to go through that again?

1325
01:42:42,630 --> 01:42:43,170
Yeah, absolutely.

1326
01:42:43,470 --> 01:42:47,790
Yeah, so Meredith and Rhonda at the beginning this morning, so today's work session.

1327
01:42:48,690 --> 01:42:56,190
And the purpose was to have both of these groups present to the board their approaches to workman's comp for the county and

1328
01:42:56,950 --> 01:43:02,630
to basically roll the sleeves up and dive deep for the commissioners to understand what the programs are.

1329
01:43:02,830 --> 01:43:04,390
Ask questions, evaluate it.

1330
01:43:04,530 --> 01:43:05,850
No decisions are made today.

1331
01:43:07,170 --> 01:43:13,110
Those will be for the board in a regular business meeting which they have the first three Mondays of December coming up.

1332
01:43:13,310 --> 01:43:15,550
And it's up to them when they want to make that decision.

1333
01:43:16,250 --> 01:43:21,090
Only the caveat here is if there is a decision by the board to make a change.

1334
01:43:21,090 --> 01:43:28,450
We've suggested that they look at that a quicker than sooner than later so that we have ramped time and we know you all understand that

1335
01:43:29,290 --> 01:43:30,950
with other carriers so

1336
01:43:32,030 --> 01:43:37,310
That date has not been set. We'll let you know as soon as we hear from the commission's of what their brothers are to do that

1337
01:43:37,850 --> 01:43:41,570
There may be more questions that they're interested in pursuing and we'll get those over to you

1338
01:43:41,570 --> 01:43:43,730
No different than the folks here in the room too, so

1339
01:43:44,690 --> 01:43:46,570
That's that's the process as it stands

1340
01:43:48,030 --> 01:43:50,690
Okay, understood. That's great. Thank you. Yeah

1341
01:43:51,090 --> 01:43:55,310
Thank you. We are going to continue this. I think Heather has a

1342
01:43:57,650 --> 01:43:58,770
Workman comp

1343
01:43:59,990 --> 01:44:02,630
Cost comparison is she's going to take us through

1344
01:44:03,150 --> 01:44:05,970
Just ask commissioner Samson. Do you want a personal break?

1345
01:44:06,810 --> 01:44:15,490
Good, but I have a question for them. I was going to ask how many counties are in the pool? How many counties in Colorado are in

1346
01:44:16,230 --> 01:44:19,930
Yeah, we have 44 counties in the pool

1347
01:44:21,090 --> 01:44:32,490
44 out of 66 okay thank you 64 thank you and then one more question just from me

1348
01:44:32,490 --> 01:44:36,170
Meredith and I don't know if this is a round a question that equity distribution

1349
01:44:36,170 --> 01:44:39,990
that you guys are giving back this year is that the most you've given back in the

1350
01:44:39,990 --> 01:44:41,790
last ten years I

1351
01:44:44,060 --> 01:44:48,320
believe so yes there might have been I'd have to look back

1352
01:44:48,320 --> 01:44:49,540
I hope I have to look back on that.

1353
01:44:50,320 --> 01:44:59,740
And as far as I can recall, I think we've done the 3.5, but not done a 4 million, so.

1354
01:45:02,030 --> 01:45:31,470
But I will get back to you for sure on that one. And so I just had put together a cost comparison, and it's not, you know, as you've heard, it's not really apples to apples because they do things a little bit differently. But they do, they do both, you know, start with the manual premium, which is the payroll times the rate classification. And so the difference between CTSI and Glenwood is that the Glenwood insurance and pinnacle is that they use different years.

1355
01:45:31,470 --> 01:45:36,870
And so, for Glenwood, they use the current year's payroll.

1356
01:45:37,170 --> 01:45:39,290
And so, I put that other, yeah, go ahead.

1357
01:45:39,630 --> 01:45:42,210
With Pinnacle, we be making monthly payments, right?

1358
01:45:42,370 --> 01:45:43,790
We have a deposit.

1359
01:45:46,210 --> 01:45:49,750
We have a large deposit and then monthly payments based on payroll.

1360
01:45:50,030 --> 01:45:50,870
We have different options.

1361
01:45:51,230 --> 01:45:53,070
You could do a one-time payment if you wanted.

1362
01:45:53,230 --> 01:45:56,830
You can do monthly installments, but it's not a deposit ahead of time.

1363
01:45:56,830 --> 01:46:03,710
And you could also do either monthly or quarterly reporting that's based on actual payroll for a month, and we figure that out.

1364
01:46:03,870 --> 01:46:06,850
So we have a lot of flexibility in how you want to pay.

1365
01:46:07,430 --> 01:46:08,170
Okay, thank you.

1366
01:46:08,530 --> 01:46:10,650
So it sounds like there's options on that.

1367
01:46:10,890 --> 01:46:18,290
And so that might factor in as far as the board's consideration for auditing if we could pay all at once and for appropriations.

1368
01:46:18,650 --> 01:46:20,650
And we pay all at once to CTS.

1369
01:46:20,710 --> 01:46:23,710
We do, and so that's the budgeted amount.

1370
01:46:23,710 --> 01:46:28,890
And so the reason I had included this was just to show that generally the manual premiums are the same.

1371
01:46:29,390 --> 01:46:41,950
So I put, you know, pinnacles in there using the 2023 numbers so that you can see, you know, CTSI's was 784,000, which is for this year, but using 2023 numbers, and then pinnacles would have been 790.

1372
01:46:42,870 --> 01:46:49,470
So they're virtually the same, and that's just the difference between the total payrolls, that next line,

1373
01:46:50,290 --> 01:46:59,710
the rate for job classifications, both Glenwood insurance and CTSI talked about this, the NCCI

1374
01:46:59,710 --> 01:47:07,190
rate, and so, you know, work-comp has to use the NCCI numbers, and really CTSI is pretty

1375
01:47:07,190 --> 01:47:13,370
close. They use a lot of the similar numbers, and then the Modified or Estimated Premium.

1376
01:47:13,370 --> 01:47:20,410
I included that, just so that's the number, that number is the estimated premium based

1377
01:47:20,410 --> 01:47:26,170
on the, what's the EMOD, which would be for pinnacle or the loss rate factor, which

1378
01:47:26,170 --> 01:47:28,170
is what CTSI uses.

1379
01:47:28,710 --> 01:47:34,370
And just, you know, for, for your information, the, the piece of paper or the information

1380
01:47:34,370 --> 01:47:42,350
that CTSI provided, you know, that 0.6 number in the calculation, it's actually, it's

1381
01:47:42,350 --> 01:47:44,890
It's not directly related.

1382
01:47:45,130 --> 01:47:52,490
And so if you look at that, they actually multiply the manual premium times the loss rate

1383
01:47:52,490 --> 01:47:53,030
factor.

1384
01:47:53,390 --> 01:47:57,350
And so their numbers, if you look, are very compressed.

1385
01:47:58,050 --> 01:48:02,890
And so really the loss rate factor only goes from 0.92 to 1.07.

1386
01:48:03,430 --> 01:48:10,350
And so it's 0.15 difference as far as what the loss rate is.

1387
01:48:10,350 --> 01:48:14,470
And so I think with a larger market, with the E-Mod,

1388
01:48:14,650 --> 01:48:20,570
you have a lot bigger spread than you have with the CTSI.

1389
01:48:20,750 --> 01:48:24,810
And that's really the only point that I wanted to make there.

1390
01:48:25,030 --> 01:48:27,090
And then the next, and that's what I essentially say.

1391
01:48:27,430 --> 01:48:31,210
So the experience modification factor used

1392
01:48:31,210 --> 01:48:34,510
is between 0.75 and 1.25 for.

1393
01:48:36,210 --> 01:48:39,030
So the lowest we can go on, experience the modest 0.75?

1394
01:48:39,030 --> 01:48:39,610
That's right.

1395
01:48:39,810 --> 01:48:47,630
And the highest would be 1.25, whereas with the loss rate factor used by CTSI is between

1396
01:48:47,630 --> 01:48:49,330
0.92 and 1.07.

1397
01:48:50,650 --> 01:48:55,370
So it's just a more compressed possibility there.

1398
01:48:55,810 --> 01:49:07,350
And so right now, I think the EMOD, as explained by Pinnacle, is calculated at 0.88 and the loss

1399
01:49:07,350 --> 01:49:14,390
rate factor right now is .92 from CTSI. And they also use different years of numbers.

1400
01:49:14,630 --> 01:49:21,110
And so the EMA that they're using for pinnacle, I believe is the last three years.

1401
01:49:21,470 --> 01:49:25,610
And so, and CTSI uses the three years prior to the payroll.

1402
01:49:25,790 --> 01:49:34,330
So they use, you know, 20, 21, 22 instead of using, you know, 21, 22, 23 or 23, 24, 25.

1403
01:49:35,890 --> 01:49:40,770
So that's that's a difference as well and then you know the loss ratio I just

1404
01:49:40,770 --> 01:49:44,370
wanted to spend a little bit just to talk a little bit about the loss ratio

1405
01:49:44,370 --> 01:49:49,710
and I provided another another sheet that has the historical loss ratio for the

1406
01:49:49,710 --> 01:49:56,090
county just the last to I don't know if I went back 10 years nope to 2015 and this

1407
01:49:56,090 --> 01:50:01,630
is just you know the loss ratio is the total amount that we've incurred with

1408
01:50:01,630 --> 01:50:05,470
with adjusted expenses divided by the total of the paid premiums.

1409
01:50:05,910 --> 01:50:10,130
So I think these are just interesting numbers to look at.

1410
01:50:10,550 --> 01:50:15,230
And I just did a year by year instead of the compressed where they do three years in

1411
01:50:15,230 --> 01:50:15,730
an average.

1412
01:50:16,330 --> 01:50:21,930
And so like for 2023, we had a, and the reason I did this was so that the board could consider

1413
01:50:21,930 --> 01:50:26,030
that individual loss, the loss.

1414
01:50:28,110 --> 01:50:32,670
That's it, yes, YLD, the individual control loss dividend.

1415
01:50:34,070 --> 01:50:39,470
And so, so that you can see, you know, what that, what if any that help that would be to

1416
01:50:39,470 --> 01:50:42,930
the county and use some numbers to support that.

1417
01:50:43,030 --> 01:50:47,770
So for example, in 2023, our total incurred losses were 146,000.

1418
01:50:48,230 --> 01:50:52,190
The premium that we actually paid was 596,000 ish.

1419
01:50:52,190 --> 01:50:55,530
And so we got a loss ratio of 25%.

1420
01:50:56,370 --> 01:51:03,930
And then for 2022, the total incurred losses were only about $58,000, $58,300.

1421
01:51:04,410 --> 01:51:11,070
Our total premium was $600,000, $660,000, so our loss ratio was 9%.

1422
01:51:11,570 --> 01:51:16,230
Then we've had, I went back a number of years because we've had years where we were almost

1423
01:51:16,230 --> 01:51:18,670
at 100% in 2016.

1424
01:51:18,670 --> 01:51:26,050
So that's just something for the for the board to consider when considering whether that

1425
01:51:26,050 --> 01:51:36,750
individual cost yeah the ILCD that's what that's what I've been calling it so so that's

1426
01:51:36,750 --> 01:51:43,010
the cost dividend plan so and then I just this is where my numbers and this is why I was

1427
01:51:43,010 --> 01:51:48,650
asking Glenwood insurance where they got the numbers about the 2000 deductible and it's

1428
01:51:48,650 --> 01:51:52,010
took some digging into the numbers that CTSI provides,

1429
01:51:52,230 --> 01:51:54,750
because they do do their yearly update to us

1430
01:51:54,750 --> 01:51:58,390
with the loss ratio and the loss and talked to us

1431
01:51:58,390 --> 01:51:59,630
about our losses over the years.

1432
01:52:00,170 --> 01:52:04,170
And so I went back and I did 2023 and 2022.

1433
01:52:04,870 --> 01:52:07,430
And so the total numbers of claims that we had in 2023

1434
01:52:08,150 --> 01:52:09,330
was 56.

1435
01:52:10,070 --> 01:52:12,330
We had three indemnity claims that year.

1436
01:52:12,910 --> 01:52:16,190
So 53 of them were medical only claims.

1437
01:52:16,190 --> 01:52:22,910
And only one medical claim was over $2,000, and so, and it was like 2010.

1438
01:52:24,010 --> 01:52:32,670
And so, the total medical costs of the claims that were not over $2,000 was $15,227.

1439
01:52:33,330 --> 01:52:37,970
And so, and it took some digging in because they, when they present the numbers, they have

1440
01:52:37,970 --> 01:52:40,110
a number that they have for reserves.

1441
01:52:40,110 --> 01:52:50,290
So essentially when they present the numbers they look, they appear to be much higher than they actually are because most of the money that is put in there is reserves.

1442
01:52:51,210 --> 01:52:56,750
And so then in 2022, the total number of claims we had was 32.

1443
01:52:57,610 --> 01:53:01,630
There were two indemnity claims and 30 of them were medical only.

1444
01:53:02,110 --> 01:53:05,370
And only again, one claim was over the $2,000.

1445
01:53:06,370 --> 01:53:13,570
And so the total medical cost we would have paid for the 29 claims was about $17,771.

1446
01:53:14,230 --> 01:53:19,950
And so, and I brought those numbers just to show what the 2000 deductible may have looked like over the past two years.

1447
01:53:20,110 --> 01:53:24,130
Certainly the model that Glenwood insurance did was based on different numbers.

1448
01:53:24,130 --> 01:53:31,670
And I don't know if they did or didn't include, you know, how those numbers, but I can dig into that more if you're interested.

1449
01:53:31,670 --> 01:53:37,470
But I just thought that that would be helpful when you're considering the 2000 deductible.

1450
01:53:37,650 --> 01:53:47,150
And then I did just want to note, and I think I put this in your package too, was what CTSI had provided for the large deductible option.

1451
01:53:47,550 --> 01:53:53,010
And so that's this sheet with the, I don't know if you have this one with the yellow on the top of it.

1452
01:53:53,010 --> 01:54:03,570
And so, yeah, that is the large deductible plan that I think Rhonda had prepared for

1453
01:54:03,570 --> 01:54:13,970
the county and so the really the large deductibles that they have are at $150,000, $175,000 and $200,000.

1454
01:54:14,110 --> 01:54:21,550
And as I've just gone through some of our total losses, since 2021 our total losses incurred

1455
01:54:21,550 --> 01:54:29,950
haven't been over 150,000, and that's why that would not be an economical option for the county.

1456
01:54:30,490 --> 01:54:35,270
And so she had put those together, and you can take a look at this if you'd like.

1457
01:54:35,410 --> 01:54:38,030
And it just goes through what the net incurred was.

1458
01:54:38,210 --> 01:54:39,910
And this goes back to 2004,

1459
01:54:42,010 --> 01:54:47,230
so yeah, that option wasn't economical for the county.

1460
01:54:47,230 --> 01:54:51,850
But I wanted to just go through that, you know, just finishing with the spreadsheet.

1461
01:54:51,850 --> 01:54:58,750
I explained a little bit about the deductibles and what the difference between the deductibles

1462
01:54:58,750 --> 01:54:59,010
are.

1463
01:54:59,250 --> 01:55:04,470
And I think it's right that generally, the general dividend from pinnacle is similar

1464
01:55:04,470 --> 01:55:14,490
to an equity distribution from CTSI, there are certainly differences, but the equity distribution

1465
01:55:14,490 --> 01:55:17,630
from CTSI this year is $249,000.

1466
01:55:18,710 --> 01:55:21,270
I think that had recently changed prior to that.

1467
01:55:21,390 --> 01:55:24,350
What we were quoted in September, it was $186,000.

1468
01:55:24,850 --> 01:55:33,030
So our final contribution as proposed by CTSI has gone down since September.

1469
01:55:36,310 --> 01:55:42,330
And then the last thing on the spreadsheet, the last page talks about the loss control dividend

1470
01:55:42,330 --> 01:55:52,250
in the ICLD. And so the cost, and so that is a 5% cost for that particular program through

1471
01:55:52,250 --> 01:56:01,410
Pinnacle, and the cost would be, it's 5%, it's 32,789 or 86 for this year. And that's

1472
01:56:01,410 --> 01:56:06,530
why I, you know, I essentially just let you know that if the loss ratio is less than 40%,

1473
01:56:06,530 --> 01:56:24,830
you can get a return on that. And so, and it's also and the reason I did the yearly loss ratios is because that individual loss control dividend program is only based on the prior years. I think that's it's only based on the prior years loss ratio.

1474
01:56:24,830 --> 01:56:31,550
So, I mean, if we do a loss control program, don't we get a 5%, if we get the cost containment,

1475
01:56:31,850 --> 01:56:38,170
if we get the cost containment 5%, then that would pay essentially for the ICLD program.

1476
01:56:38,790 --> 01:56:45,690
So that's just, I set it out in the spreadsheet so you could kind of see what the differences

1477
01:56:45,690 --> 01:56:49,710
are because it is a lot of information, it is very complicated.

1478
01:56:50,470 --> 01:56:53,750
This is the one where we, if we're gamblers, want to bet.

1479
01:56:54,130 --> 01:56:55,410
Well, but you're betting on yourself.

1480
01:56:55,850 --> 01:56:57,490
You know, you're betting on your own programs.

1481
01:56:57,490 --> 01:57:00,270
You're betting on, you know, the safety programs.

1482
01:57:00,630 --> 01:57:03,390
And I don't, I wouldn't really characterize it as betting

1483
01:57:03,390 --> 01:57:09,070
so much as being, I think that there's an economic incentive

1484
01:57:09,070 --> 01:57:13,750
than for safety, for making sure that we're doing what we need

1485
01:57:13,750 --> 01:57:16,190
to do from loss control prevention.

1486
01:57:16,190 --> 01:57:19,710
I see Nettie moving to the front table here.

1487
01:57:20,210 --> 01:57:23,370
The issues there is we don't have as much control.

1488
01:57:23,770 --> 01:57:26,610
And we don't have any control in the sheriff's office really.

1489
01:57:26,890 --> 01:57:27,750
Well, I think we do.

1490
01:57:28,110 --> 01:57:29,470
And I think that they're certainly interested.

1491
01:57:31,310 --> 01:57:33,710
Certainly, I think Lou would be interested in.

1492
01:57:33,730 --> 01:57:35,830
He doesn't want his workers in either.

1493
01:57:36,270 --> 01:57:40,010
So I think he certainly would be interested in learning about that.

1494
01:57:40,470 --> 01:57:44,630
And Tom's right, you know, they certainly don't want to be told how to do their jobs.

1495
01:57:44,630 --> 01:57:49,770
because they're the experts in that, but I think he would certainly be open to listening

1496
01:57:49,770 --> 01:57:51,010
to improvements.

1497
01:57:51,270 --> 01:57:51,750
I don't know that.

1498
01:57:52,150 --> 01:57:54,890
I think he would have an open door for that.

1499
01:57:56,270 --> 01:58:03,210
And Heather, just to add, as you calculated the year-over-year loss ratio for 22 and 21,

1500
01:58:03,590 --> 01:58:09,670
I just wanted to mention there is, on page 56 of your 95-page packet that we sent through,

1501
01:58:09,670 --> 01:58:15,250
So, if you had a 9% loss ratio, the return would be 15%.

1502
01:58:15,250 --> 01:58:23,210
Okay, 15.5% with the 25% loss ratio, the return would be 9.4.

1503
01:58:23,830 --> 01:58:25,330
So, this is filed with the state.

1504
01:58:25,730 --> 01:58:25,890
Yeah.

1505
01:58:26,090 --> 01:58:26,390
Okay.

1506
01:58:27,430 --> 01:58:28,270
That's helpful.

1507
01:58:28,910 --> 01:58:29,090
Yeah.

1508
01:58:29,590 --> 01:58:30,010
Thank you.

1509
01:58:31,890 --> 01:58:33,930
Did somebody else try to say something?

1510
01:58:34,910 --> 01:58:40,830
Okay. All right. And so then just talked a little bit about the general dividend and then the cost

1511
01:58:40,830 --> 01:58:46,110
containment certification. We do have a lot of those programs in place as Tom has said.

1512
01:58:46,590 --> 01:58:51,950
But we haven't gone through kind of with a fine tooth comb to see if we could apply or get cost containment

1513
01:58:51,950 --> 01:58:56,930
certification for 2025. I think the goal. It would be 2026. It would be 2026, exactly.

1514
01:58:57,510 --> 01:59:03,050
Just because we would need the time in order to go through and make sure that we had everything ready

1515
01:59:03,050 --> 01:59:04,810
that present to that particular board.

1516
01:59:05,270 --> 01:59:09,390
And there I have checked there are counties that have qualified for cost containment.

1517
01:59:09,590 --> 01:59:14,230
So I think Mesa County's one and probably many of the counties that they do this for

1518
01:59:14,670 --> 01:59:16,390
have that cost containment certification.

1519
01:59:16,810 --> 01:59:19,730
And then the final line is obviously just the bottom line premium.

1520
01:59:20,770 --> 01:59:25,370
And so, and I thought that this might be helpful for the board to see just side by side.

1521
01:59:25,370 --> 01:59:30,770
And so the bottom line premium from CTSI, and certainly there's more to it.

1522
01:59:30,770 --> 01:59:34,190
And I think you've heard today, there's a lot more than just the cost to the county.

1523
01:59:34,410 --> 01:59:37,850
There's also all the services that are provided.

1524
01:59:38,230 --> 01:59:44,130
And so the bottom line was 472,673 from CTSI.

1525
01:59:44,350 --> 01:59:48,850
And then there's four options from Glenwood Insurance and Pinnacle.

1526
01:59:49,290 --> 01:59:59,430
There's the 504, 858 for a zero deductible that's just side by side for the same as CTSI.

1527
01:59:59,430 --> 01:59:59,910
Done.

1528
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:29,820
And then it's 502, 347 with the $2,000 deductible plus the ACLD plan. And then it would be $478,765 for the $2,000 deductible. So we're looking at 478,760, yes. Yes, that's the recommendation. And so, and then the final one was the $5,000 deductible, which, based on my numbers, wouldn't provide a whole lot because most of the claims are

1529
02:00:29,820 --> 02:00:39,320
under $2,000. Same with what you mean insurance. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. So that's the work at least that we've done

1530
02:00:40,560 --> 02:00:45,840
to try and make some heads and tails of all the information that you've got.

1531
02:00:45,920 --> 02:00:52,820
Thanks for spending the time. Good. Look at this. Yeah. And so that's all that I have.

1532
02:00:53,200 --> 02:00:59,280
Okay. Michelle and Ronda, do you have any other comments after hearing that?

1533
02:01:02,410 --> 02:01:08,670
I do not. I mean, I think that it's a good, good comparison to see that. Again, I think that,

1534
02:01:09,990 --> 02:01:15,110
you know, I appreciate the time today. Obviously, we want Garfield County to remain a member

1535
02:01:15,110 --> 02:01:21,330
in CWCP. It's been a good long-term relationship and continue to move forward. It would be so.

1536
02:01:21,830 --> 02:01:26,970
I think and I truly still believe in the concept of pooling that it's very beneficial for

1537
02:01:26,970 --> 02:01:31,510
for counties in Colorado to maintain that pool.

1538
02:01:32,390 --> 02:01:35,270
But we're happy to obviously go through anything deeper

1539
02:01:35,270 --> 02:01:38,570
with equity distributions or the loss factor

1540
02:01:38,570 --> 02:01:40,330
and talk through some of that as well.

1541
02:01:41,310 --> 02:01:42,670
Okay, thank you.

1542
02:01:42,790 --> 02:01:45,090
Nettie, do you have anything more that you'd like to add?

1543
02:01:45,470 --> 02:01:46,330
Just thank you for your time.

1544
02:01:46,970 --> 02:01:47,370
Thank you.

1545
02:01:47,450 --> 02:01:49,250
Thank you everybody for their time.

1546
02:01:52,960 --> 02:01:54,940
It's important to us, obviously.

1547
02:01:56,240 --> 02:01:57,120
Fred, anything more?

1548
02:01:57,640 --> 02:01:59,300
The only thing I was gonna offer at some point

1549
02:01:59,300 --> 02:02:09,080
I'll relay your old decision point back to this group and then also to Meredith and CTSI when you're going to make your decision.

1550
02:02:09,420 --> 02:02:12,260
So Commissioner Samson, any other comments?

1551
02:02:13,200 --> 02:02:14,480
A lot to think about.

1552
02:02:17,740 --> 02:02:20,020
Yeah, Heather had my head spinning.

1553
02:02:22,040 --> 02:02:28,340
It's an extended spend a lot of time just dig it into the numbers because it's important

1554
02:02:28,340 --> 02:02:35,020
that we understand how it works so that we can get the most benefit from our carrier,

1555
02:02:35,220 --> 02:02:37,240
whether that's CTSI or pinnacle.

1556
02:02:37,620 --> 02:02:42,720
So it helps to understand where the numbers are coming from and all the services that are

1557
02:02:42,720 --> 02:02:43,460
provided.

1558
02:02:43,460 --> 02:02:48,740
Thank you any other comments then we can be adjourned