1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:05,760 meeting to order if you will stand with me and say the pledge of legion 2 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:15,519 i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america 3 00:00:13,599 --> 00:00:21,199 and from the republic for which it stands one nation 4 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:23,600 under god indivisible with liberty and justice 5 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:29,599 okay and i'll go ahead and give the invocation 6 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:32,880 our heavenly father we are so thankful for this time that we have together we 7 00:00:31,199 --> 00:00:36,559 thank you for allowing us to take a moment during this busy holiday season 8 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:38,480 to be able to conduct business of the city 9 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:41,520 please help guide and direct our discussions so that they fall into the 10 00:00:40,239 --> 00:00:44,640 will that you have prepared for our lives and the lives of the 11 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:48,879 people in our community amen thank you 12 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:53,760 all right uh citizens to be heard 13 00:00:56,879 --> 00:01:03,039 all right seeing as how i don't believe there is anyone who has anything to say 14 00:01:00,719 --> 00:01:07,600 we'll go ahead and move on to chapter 13 streets and sidewalks 15 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:15,840 so we'll go ahead and start with article one sidewalk so page 16 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:15,840 i guess 13-1 17 00:01:16,960 --> 00:01:21,680 all right did anyone have any thing on this section that they would like to 18 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:30,079 discuss or any corrections i guess in 13-10 19 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:35,680 uh that rate of one inch to four feet that is an ada compliant 20 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,680 number 21 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:44,880 yes i believe that uh it's two percent grade 22 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:52,960 i believe one to four is the appropriate uh the appropriate grade i can 23 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:58,640 verify with garrett to make sure but i know so it's a two percent grade it's 24 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:58,640 all very powerful 25 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:14,080 okay okay were there any other comments over 26 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,080 this page 27 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:24,000 i didn't have any okay you know to the uh best of your 28 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:30,720 knowledge if all of this is still accurate 29 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:36,000 i mean um yeah i guess if it's accurate if this is how 30 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:40,720 things are conducted yes okay and we 31 00:02:40,959 --> 00:02:50,319 i don't believe this particular section um references our sidewalk program that 32 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:56,319 we have but uh that'd be the only other thing 33 00:02:53,599 --> 00:02:56,319 that's more of a 34 00:02:56,959 --> 00:03:02,720 policy decision based on budgetary funding uh more 35 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:07,120 than it is uh but then i'd recommend being law 36 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:11,920 so i think that's why i leave that out thank you okay so go ahead and turn the 37 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:16,319 page to 13-2 there is not much here and i did not have anything 38 00:03:14,640 --> 00:03:21,840 changing this did you all have anything on this page i did not 39 00:03:18,879 --> 00:03:24,799 i did not okay so go ahead and move on through 40 00:03:22,239 --> 00:03:28,000 that three or four two remote removal of snow and 41 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,000 or ice 42 00:03:30,799 --> 00:03:34,480 i didn't have any marked on this page 43 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:40,560 yeah i didn't either chris do you know uh the ksa that it references if it's 44 00:03:38,959 --> 00:03:45,120 supposed to have the e at the end of that there 45 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:48,720 or um i didn't know if the e was supposed to 46 00:03:46,159 --> 00:03:51,840 be bracketed or if it's even supposed to be there 47 00:03:52,480 --> 00:04:00,799 i am not entirely sure so i will check and verify that that is the 48 00:03:58,879 --> 00:04:06,080 correct normally uh those will be bracketed but i'll i'll 49 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,080 check into that and 50 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:17,519 okay sounds good was there anything else or oh 51 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:23,120 commissioner cole do you have anything for this page oh sorry what chris 52 00:04:20,239 --> 00:04:28,400 uh i was just gonna say the the last section there 53 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:31,360 a removal uh of these of snow and ice 54 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:42,000 so this is one particular section that similarly we have rarely enforced 55 00:04:38,639 --> 00:04:46,479 um it's something that i think does make a lot of sense in some 56 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:50,639 aspects especially in downtown districts and areas that are 57 00:04:47,759 --> 00:04:54,240 heavily traveled uh if we if you know we were to have 58 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:56,479 you know sidewalks heading to all the way to the high school all the way to 59 00:04:55,360 --> 00:05:00,960 the elementary school that were heavily utilized for 60 00:04:57,840 --> 00:05:04,880 pedestrian traffic and they weren't cleared of snow we 61 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:09,039 could have kids walking on the street etc currently we don't have a ton of 62 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:16,240 that but it is something that according to 63 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:19,520 city code we should be enforcing and one of those things that as we've 64 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:22,720 discussed discussed on some other things in the 65 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:27,520 past would you prefer us to start enforcing it more strictly 66 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:32,160 to be in compliance with code or would you prefer to remove it 67 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:36,800 i would like to one way or the other either strike it 68 00:05:33,199 --> 00:05:38,560 or start forcing it because i don't like having things in the book that we don't 69 00:05:37,840 --> 00:05:43,759 enforce but it's been one of those things that's 70 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:48,720 do we really go after somebody to you know remove their snow this 71 00:05:50,840 --> 00:05:53,840 instance 72 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:59,759 i mean i would i would agree i think that if it's going to remain in here 73 00:05:57,280 --> 00:06:04,080 that it's something that would need to be used i kind of wonder though if i 74 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:07,250 mean before it's actually removed by the city i'm assuming that 75 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:12,560 there would be a notice given to the [Music] 76 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:12,560 individual at the house correct 77 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:24,800 well and if it was something to where um enforcement action 78 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:26,960 to where we need to go and take care of it 79 00:06:28,319 --> 00:06:35,280 there is no notice provision in here given 80 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:38,319 more than likely what we would attempt to do uh 81 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:41,759 you know we haven't really done this before but we couldn't give 10 days 82 00:06:40,319 --> 00:06:46,000 notice like we do for weeds because the snow is going to be gone 83 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:51,440 and all eventuality for uh by that time frame but if it's not 84 00:06:49,599 --> 00:06:54,720 taken care of within the appropriate time frame then we would probably 85 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:59,440 try to place place a door hanger something to that effect and give 86 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:01,440 24 hours or something along those lines and then we would come in and take care 87 00:07:00,639 --> 00:07:07,199 of it um you know if we wanted to to 88 00:07:05,039 --> 00:07:11,599 do that my suggestion would be that we probably add that type of 89 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:16,960 language to the code to say what that term that period of notice is going to 90 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:19,840 uh is going to be um and certainly that's something i can you know touch 91 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:23,440 base with terry on to try to figure out you know what he might think 92 00:07:22,479 --> 00:07:29,199 would be um how to word that but 93 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:31,840 i i think the key is you know as it says you know 94 00:07:29,599 --> 00:07:35,440 the first section the owner or occupant of any lots 95 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:40,080 a budding any public sidewalk which all sidewalks are are public unless they are 96 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:42,800 you know going right up to your door uh if they're going 97 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:48,800 you know parallel to the street then it's a public sidewalk and so 98 00:07:45,759 --> 00:07:54,160 that particular sidewalk should be clear of snow or ice within 99 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:58,720 six hours from the time of the snowfall or ice storm 100 00:07:55,680 --> 00:08:06,479 according to this code and again you know it's just six hours um 101 00:08:02,879 --> 00:08:09,840 you know that's that can be tough to i mean we certainly can exercise 102 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:14,080 discretion um but you know if this if the sn if it 103 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:17,919 stops snowing at 2 a.m uh there's going to be a lot of people 104 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:21,120 who frankly don't have time do not get up at 6 a.m to go shovel 105 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:24,479 their sidewalks so that way kids can walk to school on 106 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:28,000 their sidewalks but they'd be in violation of code if 107 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:31,199 they don't because they wouldn't have it shoveled before 108 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:35,039 they got home from work you know within you know before school 109 00:08:32,719 --> 00:08:38,959 started and should we take care of it should we issue them a ticket 110 00:08:36,719 --> 00:08:41,680 i would i would say we probably give a little bit more time than that 111 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:45,680 um for them to take care of their own sidewalk uh 112 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:49,600 you know kids may have to trek through through snow for a little while uh 113 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:55,600 unfortunately but i think we need to give some reasonable time frame at least 114 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:59,680 that was my question was the six hours being able to get it completed in six 115 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:03,120 hours because as you said a lot of people still go to work 116 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:07,519 if there's a few inches of snow on the sidewalk 117 00:09:04,399 --> 00:09:13,920 and if you leave if you leave your home at 5am you're not going to be out there 118 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,920 shoveling it before you leave 119 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:25,040 yeah i agree i also think it's important to define 120 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:29,839 public sidewalk in this section as well so that everyone knows 121 00:09:26,399 --> 00:09:34,480 who it applies to and which sidewalks they are to be paying attention to to 122 00:09:34,839 --> 00:09:43,360 clear okay so if we use bridget's house 123 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:47,920 and that would mean the sidewalk that runs in front of your house 124 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:51,600 right into the side probably on elm yeah on the east side right 125 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:54,399 yeah that's what i mean i i think if you were somebody getting up and going to 126 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:57,360 work in the city or just going to work here 127 00:09:55,680 --> 00:10:00,800 i don't know that six hours would give you time to get up 128 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:08,240 you know to be able to get up and get that completed so maybe it's 129 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,240 that's a lot of sidewalk 130 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:16,480 yeah i agree i think that i mean i don't know since 131 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:21,440 the idea is to try to clear it as soon as possible should we extend it to 132 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:26,000 within 24 hours i mean the other thing the other 133 00:10:24,079 --> 00:10:29,360 question i have should there be a difference between 134 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:34,240 downtown area and maybe bridget's house you know maybe 135 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:39,440 that time frame looks a little bit different i don't know 136 00:10:35,839 --> 00:10:39,440 maybe not maybe it's the same 137 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:52,959 i wouldn't think you'd have as many people you know walking by your 138 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:55,680 and you live on a busy street but even on a day like that i wouldn't think 139 00:10:54,079 --> 00:10:59,440 you'd have as many people walking by as there may be people down 140 00:10:56,959 --> 00:11:02,240 in the downtown area paying bills running errands 141 00:11:00,560 --> 00:11:04,560 going to post office those kinds of things 142 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:20,000 my only thing by leaving it in there um where they're strictly enforced or not 143 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:26,959 it just it may give them a little bit of 144 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:30,480 insight that ms if somebody falls in front of your business or your your 145 00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:34,959 house and it's a public sidewalk 146 00:11:33,519 --> 00:11:38,959 you probably got some liability if you made no attempt to 147 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:43,040 to to get it off there so by leaving this in there it just 148 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:48,000 i guess it just kind of throws it down a little bit that it is 149 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:48,000 it is something that needs taken care of 150 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:54,639 now chris from what i can tell this section the way it reads under a 151 00:11:52,560 --> 00:11:57,440 it's defining public sidewalk as a sidewalk within a business or industrial 152 00:11:56,560 --> 00:12:01,519 zone or um if there have been a business or 153 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:04,079 commercial use within the past 12 months so i don't think that would necessarily 154 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:08,320 apply to a residential area if i'm reading this 155 00:12:08,839 --> 00:12:17,839 correctly on the six-hour time frame right sorry sorry 156 00:12:16,399 --> 00:12:21,519 what you said greg my someone was calling me and it muted my phone 157 00:12:19,680 --> 00:12:25,200 so on the six-hour time frame you're talking about it looks like it would 158 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:29,839 only apply to those um sidewalks and business or industrial 159 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:35,680 zones as it's a clarification to one and two specifically two 160 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:35,680 well both of those 161 00:12:36,399 --> 00:12:49,040 yeah i think after after rereading it i i would concur 162 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:49,040 that i i think you're right and that 163 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:56,240 it's it's only referencing commercial or industrial lots 164 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,160 for that time frame 165 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:07,839 so that may not be you know necessarily an issue for say you 166 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:10,959 um for your house in an uh in a residential district it'd really 167 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:18,160 be anybody who's zoned i1 b1 b2 168 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:24,639 um or even if they're not zoned that way but they are 169 00:13:20,399 --> 00:13:28,959 their use is commercial or industrial it would still qualify there or if it's 170 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:31,839 been commercial or industrial within the past 171 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:36,639 12 months it would still qualify as needing to be done 172 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:41,279 from public sector removed from public sidewalk right and i can see 173 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:43,440 why it's in a business zone the time frame 174 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:45,600 you know might be a little more important or a little shorter because 175 00:13:45,199 --> 00:13:50,399 that's i mean the idea is to that people be 176 00:13:48,399 --> 00:14:05,760 frequenting those businesses so they need to clear their sidewalks 177 00:14:02,560 --> 00:14:09,519 you know i would think having something in there 178 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:14,880 to instead of just a hard six hours maybe making it um 179 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:21,440 within if you wanted to leave six hours to say within six hours 180 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:24,639 uh or if you know somehow phrase it if it's overnight 181 00:14:22,639 --> 00:14:27,279 uh within the first two hours of daylight or something like that i mean 182 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:31,360 if if it stops snowing at you know at 10 183 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:34,560 o'clock it's you're not going to expect somebody 184 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:39,120 to get to be out there between 10 and 4 a.m 10 p.m and 4 a.m to get a 185 00:14:37,279 --> 00:14:45,760 shovel to be in compliance um even if it is a business zone you 186 00:14:41,519 --> 00:14:51,040 know right six hours after sunrise of the following 187 00:14:48,959 --> 00:14:57,440 day in the the a2 188 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:59,839 you're right i'm just losing my mind here 189 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,160 i even read that exact sentence okay 190 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:11,360 okay so should we ju i mean do we feel okay with leaving this section the way 191 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:16,079 that it is i think since it just pertains to 192 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:19,199 business as their commercial purpose yeah i would favor of leaving it exactly 193 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:23,440 the way it is so the only thing that it talks about on 194 00:15:21,839 --> 00:15:28,880 the private property is just where you can and cannot 195 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:35,199 get rid of the piles of snow correct okay thanks 196 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:40,399 and so i would say it's probably okay for now if you want to exempt 197 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:44,079 residential areas from these from these provisions um the only thing 198 00:15:43,279 --> 00:15:47,519 i would say is if in the event that we ever do 199 00:15:46,079 --> 00:15:51,600 get a you know we're hoping to at some point 200 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:57,440 have a safe route to schools grant and get uh better access via sidewalks 201 00:15:55,920 --> 00:16:00,320 to both the elementary school and the high school 202 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:03,839 in the event we that ever becomes a reality 203 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:08,240 it might be something at that point to try to designate those routes 204 00:16:05,519 --> 00:16:10,560 as snow has to be removed within a certain time frame at least along these 205 00:16:09,839 --> 00:16:14,959 routes to try to make sure the kids can can 206 00:16:13,279 --> 00:16:19,600 safely get there right but also yeah i would think if it 207 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:23,600 was to the school even though the property 208 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:28,240 would be owned by the city a lot of it the school would 209 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:34,240 probably work hand-in-hand with you getting some of that removed 210 00:16:31,519 --> 00:16:38,480 well i mean i would i mean you're talking about 211 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:44,240 it could be a distance all the way to you know i mean all the way across town 212 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:44,240 down cleveland street or you know 213 00:16:44,639 --> 00:16:49,759 down maple or well maple's a business district anyways but 214 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:56,079 but i was thinking more more in residential areas that that would be 215 00:16:51,839 --> 00:17:02,240 um a sidewalk route for a lot of kids to to walk to school that you know 216 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:09,280 it probably give more than six hours but a time frame in which you know within a 217 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:14,079 24 to 48 hours that residences along that route are expected to have 218 00:17:11,360 --> 00:17:18,880 uh snow removed but we're not in that situation right now anyway so 219 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:23,679 that's probably future discussion but i'll just throw that out there for maybe 220 00:17:20,799 --> 00:17:29,039 future future thought kind of going off of lawrence 221 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:33,600 the city of lawrence where i lived at for six years 222 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:40,160 is there any designation of the amount um or um what 223 00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:44,400 uh what guidelines we need to put in there or 224 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:49,039 whether there's just the dusting or if there's an 225 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:53,280 inch where they need to you know clear their sidewalks or put 226 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:58,240 out some sand or ice melt i i don't know if 227 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:05,840 that needs to be included in there or not but it is included in 228 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:05,840 the city of lawrence's ordinance 229 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:17,280 that's probably a good point uh we don't want to run into uh 230 00:18:13,679 --> 00:18:20,720 to issues with you know somebody complaining because well soto didn't 231 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:23,760 shovel their their sidewalk in front of their 232 00:18:21,919 --> 00:18:26,160 business when it was just a dusting but technically 233 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:28,240 a violation of the law type thing you know we could certainly use discretion 234 00:18:27,679 --> 00:18:31,679 but if you wanted to try and make it black 235 00:18:29,919 --> 00:18:36,000 and white um you know that wouldn't be bad to say hey 236 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:40,880 if we get two inches or more of snow that this is applicable 237 00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:46,240 or whatever you if you want to leave it alone then that's fine too but 238 00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:49,280 that could be an issue at some point what is the depth of snow that lawrence 239 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,679 uses cody 240 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,840 um 241 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:24,960 and certainly in some cases if you if we do get a decent amount of ice uh 242 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:28,000 before snow it's actually better to try to 243 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:32,720 leave the snow on top than try to take the snow off and 244 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,960 then you're just left with a sheet of ice and 245 00:19:33,679 --> 00:19:39,760 that you can't really break through a lot of times and so 246 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:42,240 it's safer to leave the snow in place good point 247 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:52,320 the bad thing is if you get like an inch or two inches of snow and it gets 248 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:58,000 gets all walked on and compacted that it's going to be a slick situation uh 249 00:19:55,760 --> 00:20:03,760 i personally would be for leaving it and not 250 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:07,440 not calling out so many things um just for the fact that if it's say two 251 00:20:05,919 --> 00:20:10,320 inches it's going to get compacted and then it's going to be more 252 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:15,840 maybe even slicker and be there longer 253 00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:23,039 yeah i would i would tend to agree that um 254 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:26,640 since those are i mean the idea was to try to catch those people who 255 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:30,320 those areas that are most frequented by people that clearing any amount of snow 256 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:35,520 and ice would be important just for the safety of the people so i'm 257 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:38,320 okay with leaving it um just to include all snow and ice 258 00:20:40,799 --> 00:20:48,080 in the event we run into issues in the future you can always revisit it 259 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:52,559 yeah okay so i think that with that in mind knowing that this 260 00:20:49,919 --> 00:20:55,600 section regarding snow and ice to be removed 261 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:58,720 is geared specifically towards business and industrial zones 262 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:01,919 that would mean that the removal may be made that is made by the city that also 263 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,880 pertains to those business and industrial zones 264 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:09,600 so i would say you should probably just go ahead and keep that section since the 265 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:17,840 idea was to try to regulate those areas and you need to have some 266 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:17,840 mechanism of enforcing that 267 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:27,760 so in terms of uh in terms of notice you know it will then we'll go in and 268 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:32,400 take care of it if they don't uh would you have a general thought 269 00:21:30,559 --> 00:21:37,120 process on what you'd like to see time frame wise there 270 00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:39,679 we start enforcing this you know if we start come january february we start to 271 00:21:39,039 --> 00:21:44,240 get significant snows and we have people 272 00:21:42,159 --> 00:21:48,159 that aren't compliant we can go and take care of it but you 273 00:21:46,559 --> 00:21:51,440 know when you guys start getting phone calls if those if those come just 274 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:55,039 kind of want to have an i be on the same page with hey let's try 275 00:21:53,039 --> 00:22:01,919 to make sure we give you know six hours notice or 24 hours 276 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,919 notice or whatever you'd like to see 277 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:08,640 i i mean just the way this is written it sounds as though they become out of 278 00:22:06,559 --> 00:22:13,200 compliance after six hours so that's at least when first 279 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:18,240 notification should occur if even possible 280 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:23,120 um it should happen as soon as that time frame has passed i mean 281 00:22:21,679 --> 00:22:28,960 as far as i'm concerned but i don't know what you all 282 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:32,400 in the think how many times would you say 283 00:22:29,919 --> 00:22:34,799 that this ordinance probably wasn't followed 284 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:46,080 that people weren't able to to get that completed 285 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:49,600 so i would say there's probably a number of 286 00:22:50,720 --> 00:23:00,880 when we get a decent snow that this is probably not followed 287 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:04,559 well the majority of the time you're going to have some businesses 288 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:08,320 some properties that that are compliant but for instance according to this code 289 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:15,039 even the uh the sidewalk in front of 290 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:17,280 uh denise's cafe should be shoveled it's a 291 00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:22,480 downtown district it's a public sidewalk it's you know and 292 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:26,159 in the past really nobody's been maintaining that property nobody's been 293 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:29,200 maintaining the vacant lot around you know beside it so but those areas should 294 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:32,400 be shoveled and so in the event somebody wants to walk 295 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:38,880 along that sidewalk according to our code that needs to be done 296 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:41,919 um so in those specific situations that's probably pretty consistently in 297 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:45,440 the past that this code has not been followed and we 298 00:23:44,559 --> 00:23:50,240 can start to enforce it and realistically 299 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:54,480 will be the ones shoveling the uh just like we're the ones in a lot 300 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:59,279 of cases that have been mowing the vacant lot there um with denise's 301 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:02,880 hopefully with the new owner that they'll go ahead and get out there and 302 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:06,960 get the sidewalk shoveled be my hope but i know the the challenges we're 303 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,640 gonna run into especially on some of these 304 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:15,039 vacant properties is gonna be uh rather extensive with regard to 305 00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:19,039 getting people to comply with this so we're gonna have some time 306 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:23,919 invested in and taking care of it ourselves until we get people 307 00:24:21,039 --> 00:24:30,080 on board with okay same thing with code enforcement with regard to 308 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:34,880 nuisances and mowing their grass etc you know once people get hit with the 309 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:38,720 you know the 75 an hour bill from the city a couple times they figure out 310 00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:42,960 i'm going to hire somebody for 20 bucks an hour to do it because because it's 311 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:47,279 it's costing me money to have this to not need to be in compliance but 312 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:51,279 it'll probably take some some of those situations to happen before people will 313 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:55,520 get the picture that we're serious since we haven't enforced it regularly in the 314 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:59,679 past how many how many places how many 315 00:24:58,159 --> 00:25:04,480 business do you think that the city would would end up having 316 00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:07,840 to do this because it doesn't just snow on monday through 317 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:10,240 friday you're going to have weekends so you're going to have to bring employees 318 00:25:09,279 --> 00:25:16,720 out pay overtime or whatever 319 00:25:13,360 --> 00:25:22,559 if it's after hours right true um and 320 00:25:19,919 --> 00:25:26,480 you know that's a challenging situation um 321 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:29,600 especially with regard to you know some of those that we attempt to make notice 322 00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:36,320 on and um can't make can't complete 323 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:39,760 making notice uh you know there are properties in town that are owned by 324 00:25:38,159 --> 00:25:43,120 somebody who lives in in texas who we can't ever seem to get a 325 00:25:41,679 --> 00:25:48,480 hold of uh and so you know trying to actually 326 00:25:46,159 --> 00:25:50,960 provide that notice that hey you have you know here's your 327 00:25:49,360 --> 00:25:53,840 it's been six hours this isn't taken care of it's a saturday 328 00:25:52,559 --> 00:25:57,679 you need to get this taken care of we're gonna come back on sunday and take care 329 00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:01,120 of it for you if you don't and you know we don't hear anything 330 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:04,400 certainly um and realistically in that scenario 331 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,799 the only thing we're going to be able to do is 332 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:10,080 unless we have a phone number which in most cases we don't will be to tack 333 00:26:09,120 --> 00:26:13,919 notice on the door uh of the of the property or in 334 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:17,600 the case of a vacant lot um you know try to attach to a stake in 335 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:22,480 the in the uh in the lot or something and then 336 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:28,159 we're going to be out there in many cases on uh on a 337 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:32,320 saturday or sunday racking up overtime for 338 00:26:29,279 --> 00:26:34,640 uh a vacant lot there so unless you want to try to address it a little bit 339 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:37,760 differently you know i mean you could change it to 340 00:26:35,919 --> 00:26:41,600 where you know it says something along the 341 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:45,760 lines of unless it's a you know not being utilized at the 342 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:49,360 moment but it you know that there are businesses on the other side of that uh 343 00:26:48,159 --> 00:26:52,880 on the east side that are in operation you have the 344 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:56,880 watershed um business down there there's i believe 345 00:26:55,360 --> 00:27:01,679 still a uh picture studio that on that end that 346 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:06,159 over the weekend if they want to walk up to the mexican restaurant and 347 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,000 they can't or they have to walk out in the street because of all the snow or 348 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:13,279 ice and you know they get hurt you know we 349 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:18,000 if we're going to enforce it in my mind you know we need to try to enforce it 350 00:27:14,799 --> 00:27:23,340 across the board but it will there will be a lot of challenges with regard to it 351 00:27:20,799 --> 00:27:32,320 sorry my computer won't get there [Music] 352 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,320 but to answer your question 353 00:27:32,559 --> 00:27:39,039 three inch accumulation of snow uh snow plowing that's snow plowing 354 00:27:37,919 --> 00:27:43,360 operation i don't know what it was for down to 355 00:27:41,679 --> 00:27:48,080 answer your question jody before my computer went dead 356 00:27:44,559 --> 00:27:55,520 i don't know what uh what the um minimum accumulation was for downtown or 357 00:27:52,000 --> 00:28:00,840 residential but i just knew that there was 358 00:27:56,080 --> 00:28:07,039 some kind of some kind of minimum to where 359 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:14,960 uh residents or businesses were um required to remove the snow and 360 00:28:10,159 --> 00:28:19,679 apply sand or some kind of ice melt and i do apologize my computer went dead 361 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:26,559 on me there but okay thanks 362 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:31,520 i wonder if we touch upon it in the uh town talk that uh i mean 363 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:35,360 the time frame is already in there that it's six hours after sunrise the 364 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:42,399 following day and if that's not completed at the time 365 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:47,840 the city can come in there remove it and bill them and don't notice no no 366 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:53,440 this is the notice that they got six hours after the 367 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:57,279 the next day after the sunrise to get it accomplished and if they don't have it 368 00:28:54,799 --> 00:29:00,640 done and the city crews are caught up to the point where they they 369 00:28:58,799 --> 00:29:03,120 can they can knock it out and send them a bill 370 00:29:01,679 --> 00:29:06,799 i don't i don't know if we need to give notice it's already it's in here 371 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:13,120 i'm just wondering what that does to the city employees when it's on the weekends 372 00:29:12,159 --> 00:29:17,520 or a holiday or you're still asking them to get out 373 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,480 there if it isn't done 374 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:26,640 well i'm thinking like like denise's for example 375 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:32,080 even if it's a weekend they're going to be out there with their blades 376 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:38,000 so like a blade on about a lot of things like a skid loader uh 377 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:42,159 and probably not the whole from their building front to the street 378 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:46,480 needs to be removed just so there's a three foot strip of clear so they can 379 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:50,240 walk from one property to the next so really they could just set their 380 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:53,440 blade up up there and drag it back to the street 381 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,840 a couple swipes and they they probably have it done and they're going to be out 382 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:59,919 there doing snow anyway of course they're 383 00:29:57,279 --> 00:30:06,000 wanting to get it removed in lots of lots of area and not want to dink around 384 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:06,000 with individual properties but 385 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:12,640 you know what i'm saying they're going to be out anyway and i think a lot of 386 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:17,840 that they could do with the machine okay mr weiner do you think that's a 387 00:30:15,039 --> 00:30:17,840 that's doable 388 00:30:18,159 --> 00:30:29,919 i i think so uh you know i certainly there will be situations if 389 00:30:25,279 --> 00:30:29,919 uh you know it's not much 390 00:30:30,159 --> 00:30:37,919 if we've already plowed the street let's say um 391 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:42,320 then go home or or whatnot and they you know streets are okay but say you 392 00:30:40,799 --> 00:30:45,520 know the person's property is is not because you know now they're 393 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:50,640 success stop snowing six hours has completed uh 394 00:30:48,559 --> 00:30:55,840 streets are okay but now we need to come back in for this scenario that could 395 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:59,919 be an issue at that point um you know and that could be an operational 396 00:30:58,399 --> 00:31:02,960 challenge finding somebody to come back in 397 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:05,760 for specifically you know one or two properties that need to be 398 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,600 shoveled my guess is initially we're probably going to see more than that 399 00:31:07,039 --> 00:31:12,720 because again i i expect that it's going to take 400 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:16,559 a little while to get people up to speed with okay this is what we're 401 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:19,840 going to start doing even if we put it in town talk 402 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:22,640 um until we actually enforce it i have a feeling that there's going to be a 403 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:28,799 number of businesses that don't expect it to actually happen um or 404 00:31:25,919 --> 00:31:34,080 you know vacant properties owners that don't expect it actually happen 405 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:38,080 but um but i do think you know in those cases we'd be paying time and a 406 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:42,159 half uh to have somebody come out on a holiday 407 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:45,360 um you know same situation that's okay you know you're gonna get extra pay to 408 00:31:43,519 --> 00:31:48,399 come out and and take care of this scenario 409 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:52,880 we should still cover our costs with regard to that 410 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:57,600 that time because the current rate is 75 dollars an hour 411 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,600 i know we talked about 412 00:31:57,919 --> 00:32:05,679 on on weeds and whatnot in the past about having that be a tiered structure 413 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:09,840 and that might be something we look at here as well for 414 00:32:07,279 --> 00:32:15,039 uh for this if you're interested in that that hey you know first time 415 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:19,519 is x cost second time is x third time is is higher so that way it's you know if 416 00:32:18,399 --> 00:32:25,440 people are just using us as a snow removal service 417 00:32:22,559 --> 00:32:28,240 eventually they're going to decide hey it's 418 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:32,559 not economical to continue to rely on the city to do this so 419 00:32:29,919 --> 00:32:35,519 we'll hire somebody to do it and and that way 420 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:38,559 the city doesn't have to any longer but um 421 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:41,360 but we should cover our cost if the bill gets paid 422 00:32:39,519 --> 00:32:44,399 a lot of cases the bill is probably not going to be paid 423 00:32:42,799 --> 00:32:46,960 same thing we run into with weeds and everything else will apply to the 424 00:32:45,679 --> 00:32:50,880 property taxes and in a lot of cases we're not going to 425 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:55,600 see that money because it'll go to a tax sale and it'll 426 00:32:53,919 --> 00:32:59,360 sell for pennies on the dollar and you know we're not going to get our back 427 00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:05,200 taxes and our assessments on that but at least we we have cleared the uh 428 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:09,360 the area made it safe for for pedestrian travel and 429 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:13,360 you know we've we've enforced our code as the commission 430 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:17,360 sees fit so i think that's the that's the goal chris i would imagine 431 00:33:15,919 --> 00:33:21,279 with businesses you might have a little bit different 432 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:24,720 circumstance there where they will be more likely to pay the fine that's 433 00:33:23,679 --> 00:33:27,919 assessed to them than just a residential homeowner who 434 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:32,399 has you know overgrown weeds i suppose there 435 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:37,120 it seems like there's more of an impetus to pay than with maybe a 436 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:41,120 resident i i would agree i was thinking more 437 00:33:38,399 --> 00:33:45,519 along the lines of the the vacant lots um for instance the nieces that you know 438 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:49,679 in that particular case we had years of back taxes 439 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:51,679 um we mowed that vacant lot there and and 440 00:33:50,159 --> 00:33:55,519 you know we had sunk costs in there because every time we we invested any 441 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:58,799 kind of time or resources into that um you know we didn't get any money back 442 00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,720 on that and none of those bills got paid and 443 00:33:59,279 --> 00:34:03,760 that's the same general location that we're talking about now but 444 00:34:02,399 --> 00:34:06,640 thankfully there's a new property owner there and that may be a different 445 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:09,839 scenario moving forward hopefully that we won't even have to mow it we 446 00:34:08,079 --> 00:34:14,320 won't have to uh to scrape the sidewalk but you know if 447 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:18,399 there's a similar scenario uh at some point you know it's for 448 00:34:16,639 --> 00:34:21,440 instance the chamber players you know they own the lot down there by 449 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:25,280 patriots bank hopefully they're able to get over there and get 450 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:29,520 that shovel but you know is that something to where that 451 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:34,159 volunteer organization is going to be able to find somebody or pay somebody 452 00:34:32,079 --> 00:34:36,720 um to get out there within six hours of the snow stopping within six hours of 453 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:40,560 sunrise to get their portion of that sidewalk 454 00:34:46,839 --> 00:34:52,240 shoveled i guess if nothing else you have a 455 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:56,639 little bit of leniency on weekends with the wording of removal may 456 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:59,599 be made by the city so if you wanted to wait until the 457 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:02,079 next business day then that's possible i was also kind of con well not 458 00:35:00,720 --> 00:35:07,680 necessarily confused but questioning what the section on section 459 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:10,400 203 when it says whatever enforcement action 460 00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:12,480 well in addition to whatever enforcement action may be taken in the municipal 461 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:16,560 court so are there additional um enforcement 462 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:21,040 mechanisms that we have i mean is that referring to fines that 463 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:26,960 the court can assess or yeah so as anything in your code book 464 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,880 if it doesn't specify otherwise is subject to the general penalty in the 465 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:33,119 code which i believe is a thousand dollar 466 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:36,560 fine or 30 days in jail up to either of those it could be a 10 467 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:40,240 fine or you know 12 hours in jail or but the judge has 468 00:35:39,359 --> 00:35:44,320 discretion so it could be that the court levees a 469 00:35:43,839 --> 00:35:51,040 fine in addition to the city removing the 470 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:56,400 snow and ice and billing for our time okay thank you 471 00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:02,160 i think maybe what you were talking about or referring to 472 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:07,040 might be in the traffic section that talks about 473 00:36:03,119 --> 00:36:10,800 500 or 30-day penalty maybe not that might be 474 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:14,400 something else well and there are sections that deal 475 00:36:14,079 --> 00:36:20,800 with specific um specific fine amounts 476 00:36:18,720 --> 00:36:26,240 but anything that doesn't list a specific fine amount 477 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:32,240 the violations of this code are subject to the general penalty 478 00:36:28,079 --> 00:36:35,760 um which i believe is in the very first chapter under general provisions i think 479 00:36:35,119 --> 00:36:42,560 it's 1 117 where it addresses 480 00:36:40,079 --> 00:36:46,560 um whenever any offense is declared by any provision of this code 481 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,720 absent a specific or unique punishment prescribed 482 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:52,960 the offender shall be punished in accordance with this section a fine of 483 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:57,280 not more than one thousand dollars imprisonment imprisonment in jail for 484 00:36:54,880 --> 00:37:00,720 not more than 179 days or both such fine and imprisoned 485 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:06,880 imprisonment not to exceed amd above so it's the judge 486 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:09,119 can do either of those if there's not a specific penalty spelled out so if you 487 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:15,119 wanted to afford a fine 488 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:19,440 less than that or more than that you would need to specify 489 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,440 in here 490 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,480 okay thank you 491 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:35,599 all right so do we want to go ahead and just move forward with the way that it 492 00:37:35,119 --> 00:37:42,400 is and see how enforcement goes 493 00:37:39,119 --> 00:37:51,839 for this and then you all can work to adjust it if need be 494 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:51,839 i prefer to leave it myself 495 00:37:52,560 --> 00:38:00,400 okay i am going to leave it if um mr weiner feels like it's 496 00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:03,680 it's workable because there's nothing worse than having a code and not 497 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:09,680 following it so i i agree with him we either follow it 498 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:13,680 or we let it go so i guess i'm asking him 499 00:38:10,720 --> 00:38:15,920 do you believe this is one that we can follow 500 00:38:14,240 --> 00:38:21,200 and because it's going to involve probably city employees to 501 00:38:17,599 --> 00:38:25,760 to get some of that done i i think we can and we can certainly 502 00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:30,960 um you know work with people and try to put something in town talk to to 503 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:34,560 increase awareness of it i i do expect 504 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:42,240 probably the biggest ones that we have challenges with 505 00:38:39,359 --> 00:38:45,200 uh that are going to be i think significant challenges will will likely 506 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:50,480 be like the uh the chamber players property 507 00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:50,480 down there because 508 00:38:50,720 --> 00:38:58,480 you know they're not there every day you know we're gonna have businesses 509 00:38:54,800 --> 00:39:03,520 that are there every day um that you know can have somebody go out and 510 00:39:01,359 --> 00:39:06,320 shovel the sidewalk or hire somebody to to take care of that for them they're 511 00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:08,720 generating income off of their business front 512 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:12,480 but when it's vacant property like what the chamber players has there 513 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:16,320 um that could be a challenge for an organization like that 514 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:21,760 to uh to either find the volunteer to take care of it 515 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:26,560 or to uh or to pay somebody to do that i i anticipate that to be an issue but 516 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,240 you know we can have that conversation with them and say hey this is going to 517 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:32,800 be an expectation moving forward and 518 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:38,640 hopefully they'll find a way to comply chris i think sorry 519 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:44,560 go ahead i was just going to say i think i think that the problem would be 520 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:50,240 is if i owned property or a business that butted up to people who didn't 521 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:54,800 you know what i mean who didn't shovel that so 522 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:57,920 i wanted to come to my business are going to have a hard time tracking 523 00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:02,240 through all of that so very true i think it will be tough for 524 00:40:01,119 --> 00:40:08,640 them but i do think probably it needs to apply the same 525 00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:12,960 and there are people that you know park down there along that 526 00:40:10,319 --> 00:40:16,800 uh stretch of the sidewalk all the time and walk to the bank 527 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:21,040 or you know to wherever so that's what i was thinking about 528 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:25,599 yeah and if i ran the bank i'd want to make sure that everybody 529 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:30,160 had access to get in and out of there get in and out of my business 530 00:40:27,119 --> 00:40:30,160 so yeah 531 00:40:33,359 --> 00:40:37,599 okay then if we are good with this section then we can go ahead and move on 532 00:40:36,720 --> 00:40:39,839 to article three 533 00:40:41,359 --> 00:40:50,240 tree advisory board now chris did this even exist not as far as i'm 534 00:40:47,839 --> 00:40:55,839 aware i talked to terry about this and um he doesn't 535 00:40:53,839 --> 00:40:59,760 need your recommended removal but we're not sure when the last time that this 536 00:40:57,359 --> 00:41:03,280 board existed okay so we'll just go ahead and remove 537 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:09,280 it unless there's a desire to keep it 538 00:41:07,359 --> 00:41:20,400 okay sounds good then let's consider that struck from city code 539 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:24,079 i article four trees and shrubbery chris do you feel like most of this when 540 00:41:21,839 --> 00:41:30,720 you're reading through it as um something that has been 541 00:41:27,119 --> 00:41:35,839 enforced or i guess it refers to the city forester 542 00:41:31,839 --> 00:41:35,839 who would be our city forester 543 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:41,839 well i played the role of city forester here about a 544 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:44,880 a year ago or you know a little over a year ago i guess 545 00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:49,680 when we were trying to figure out what to do downtown with the uh 546 00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:55,920 with the shrubs that were planted in that median there on 5th street 547 00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:58,880 that was somewhat challenging and trying to figure out 548 00:41:56,640 --> 00:42:02,000 okay well to comply with our planting procedures here there is a decent amount 549 00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:07,280 of work to be done um and so we did at least in that case 550 00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:11,520 make sure that that those rules were were followed 551 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:15,839 um with regard to the uh you know other trees that have been 552 00:42:13,839 --> 00:42:20,079 planted in the city and i i can't really speak to you know 553 00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:22,400 historically if things have been done um 554 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:31,599 taking this into account i do know that we run into issues at times 555 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:35,280 especially with trees uh in the in the right of way or in the easement 556 00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:38,800 between these between the sidewalk and city street 557 00:42:36,319 --> 00:42:41,839 we have utilities there um a lot of times trees will 558 00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:44,480 at some point they will get to a height that interferes with our with our power 559 00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:47,839 lines um they can bring down poles in a storm 560 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:52,880 and lines um likewise you know if we end up 561 00:42:51,359 --> 00:42:56,000 with issues with our uh with sidewalks they can bust up 562 00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:59,839 sidewalks that soak in trees on the other side but 563 00:42:58,319 --> 00:43:05,599 but they as well a lot of times we'll get into our sewer lines 564 00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:10,079 um and cause challenging situations with regard to our sewers 565 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:13,119 because they'll find any little any little bit of water and 566 00:43:11,359 --> 00:43:18,240 work their way inside that sewer line if there's a minuscule crack 567 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:23,280 so that would be my biggest concern would just be 568 00:43:19,839 --> 00:43:29,680 trying to make sure that we minimize or eliminate trees within the 569 00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:35,040 within the right-of-way uh certainly you know would love to see more as many 570 00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:39,040 trees as possible in town but when we get in that area that makes it 571 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:43,680 challenging for our utilities as well as for future utility growth uh 572 00:43:41,599 --> 00:43:50,960 you know if we need to build a new line when we have to take out trees that 573 00:43:46,720 --> 00:43:56,720 not only is more more resources to do with regard to taking trees down it also 574 00:43:53,760 --> 00:44:02,720 upsets people because they could have a 60 year old tree that's been there and 575 00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:09,040 they don't like it when we come in to tuck their tree down just because we 576 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:15,440 want to put on a new water line mr weiner on 13-404 577 00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:17,760 planting procedures the third the third line 578 00:44:16,079 --> 00:44:23,599 all the way to the end you just have a little where it says plan 579 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:27,200 and then a space yeah yeah i figured you already caught that 580 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:29,599 but i thought i would let you know thank you 581 00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:41,359 if i recall like gosh i don't know what's way back 25 582 00:44:37,119 --> 00:44:44,880 30 years ago i thought they had a tree that's been a tree advisory board i 583 00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:48,079 thought they purchased trees and sold sold trees but i was thinking that those 584 00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:52,880 trees had to be the way i recall it that they had to be 585 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:57,440 planted in the easement which never made much sense to me that that's 586 00:44:55,359 --> 00:45:01,280 just a future headache but that that's the way i recall that that 587 00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:05,119 thing worked that they could purchase trees i think somewhat cheaper but they 588 00:45:04,240 --> 00:45:08,400 had to be planted in the easement the way the way 589 00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:13,920 i remember now this is way back so i don't know but 590 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:16,560 if it was like that i always that's what my interpretation of it was and i always 591 00:45:15,599 --> 00:45:21,119 thought boy that's a bad plan for 10 20 years down the road 592 00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:30,720 yeah i i certainly am a fan of trees but just not in the easement 593 00:45:28,240 --> 00:45:34,480 and you know it is nice say on the you know fourth avenue 594 00:45:32,079 --> 00:45:38,319 um there in the median you know having some trees 595 00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:41,040 but you know trying to make sure we have the right type of trees in those 596 00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:44,319 situations that our roots are going to go down and not 597 00:45:43,119 --> 00:45:49,839 spread out uh you know as well as you know trees 598 00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:54,160 that aren't necessarily going to become incredibly massive uh we don't want 599 00:45:52,480 --> 00:46:00,079 roots tearing up streets and curb and gutter and everything so 600 00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:02,480 you know the right type of trees if we are going to plant have things planted 601 00:46:01,599 --> 00:46:08,160 in in between sidewalks um 602 00:46:06,079 --> 00:46:15,599 it's it's important that the trees conform to kind of what our 603 00:46:09,599 --> 00:46:19,920 what our goals are because who right now is in charge of 604 00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:22,319 the planting and pruning and removal of trees 605 00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:29,440 so if there we don't really have any type of process 606 00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:33,680 if somebody wants to plant a new tree there is no tree permit 607 00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:39,440 that you have to come into and get a permit for a 608 00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:39,440 you know a tree that you want to plant 609 00:46:40,839 --> 00:46:50,240 we in terms of removal of trees if it's a situation to where somebody 610 00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:54,000 has a tree on uh in between the easement uh or in the in the easement in the 611 00:46:52,240 --> 00:46:59,760 right-of-way and they want it gone in most cases they want the 612 00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:04,880 city to come take care of it and if it is dead dying causing problems 613 00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:09,040 etc in most cases we will go ahead and do 614 00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:13,119 that and in some cases if if we notice it 615 00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:16,560 even if the property owner hasn't said anything about it but it it 616 00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:20,079 is dead and dying um and we'll go ahead and take it out 617 00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:23,599 because at some point that's going to come down and 618 00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:26,480 it's better to come down controlled then come down 619 00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:29,280 in a storm when we've got a whole bunch of mess to clean up or 620 00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:33,280 [Music] you know on top of somebody's car or 621 00:47:31,359 --> 00:47:37,040 into a house or whatnot so so we do try to be proactive in that 622 00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:41,440 regard but in general that's at the discretion of 623 00:47:39,119 --> 00:47:45,760 the of the public works director um or the or the streets foreign 624 00:47:44,559 --> 00:47:50,880 in the absence of the public works director here for the past couple years 625 00:47:47,599 --> 00:47:54,640 uh kind of left those decisions to former west stein but you know they're 626 00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:57,839 certainly uh jason's a lot more knowledgeable as 627 00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:01,839 well as phil phil uh phil burris our our parks 628 00:48:00,240 --> 00:48:09,680 direct director has some experience with regard to um 629 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:14,079 to arborist uh situations a lot more knowledgeable than i am 630 00:48:10,720 --> 00:48:18,559 so uh kind of rely on staff to assist in making those determinations of 631 00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:20,800 is this tree healthy or is this tree one that 632 00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:24,000 realistically needs to go 633 00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:34,559 i noticed that it says the city forester shall be appointed by the city manager 634 00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:37,440 so um i guess according to this your job would be to 635 00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:43,599 try to figure out who you want to be your city forester and let um 636 00:48:39,839 --> 00:48:46,960 i don't know designate them just for the sake of this article unless you want 637 00:48:45,359 --> 00:48:49,839 it changed so 638 00:48:50,240 --> 00:48:56,160 you know i guess the way i've been doing it thus far has been 639 00:48:54,800 --> 00:49:02,480 i haven't really appointed anybody to that role officially so it's just 640 00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:06,720 like last year it was myself so um like we like it is phrased in some 641 00:49:05,359 --> 00:49:11,920 other chapters um in this one it might 642 00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:17,040 be good to say the city manager or his designee 643 00:49:13,119 --> 00:49:23,599 shall be the the the city forester and you know in a lot of other cases 644 00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:26,720 it i've clearly defined already hey this person is doing this 645 00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:30,400 job even though it says city manager or designee this is a situation where it's 646 00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:34,800 a little bit the opposite where i don't really have anybody to do this 647 00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:37,839 specific job so i've kind of taken it on in the rare instance that 648 00:49:36,319 --> 00:49:41,760 we've had it but i've relied on advice from from 649 00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:47,440 staff as appropriate so at some point if we 650 00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:49,920 have somebody that feel like hey that person is 651 00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:56,839 is a trained arborist or knows a heck of a lot about trees you know probably 652 00:49:54,640 --> 00:50:01,440 appoint that person city forester but um at this point i either don't have 653 00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:04,640 that person that would be willing or has the time or 654 00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:10,839 they haven't made themselves known to me because they 655 00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:13,839 may want to avoid the city forester role 656 00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:23,200 well i think it shall be appointed by the by the city manager or 657 00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:28,960 designee that ought to take care of it on a case-by-case basis and 658 00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:28,960 and it can get accomplished 659 00:50:29,359 --> 00:50:36,079 yeah so having like the city forester or doesn't mean she'll be appointed by the 660 00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:36,079 city manager 661 00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:39,119 or his designee 662 00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:55,839 i think would take care of it on the probably the rare case that's needed 663 00:50:44,079 --> 00:50:55,839 okay yeah i agree 664 00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:10,160 okay so did anyone have anything else on 665 00:51:10,599 --> 00:51:13,599 13-5 666 00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:23,839 no but we don't we don't have a street tree permit per se 667 00:51:24,240 --> 00:51:32,480 um no not at least that we have permits for about everything else but 668 00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:36,240 not that i've came across um that's not to say that 669 00:51:34,240 --> 00:51:39,040 we couldn't make one and and start requiring that if 670 00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:43,440 if that would be something that the commission would like to see um 671 00:51:41,599 --> 00:51:51,119 you know my personal preference would be if if you want to allow 672 00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:54,319 uh trees within the easement you know i here it says no tree shall be 673 00:51:53,119 --> 00:52:00,480 planted where the clear space between the urban side was less than 10 feet 674 00:51:56,640 --> 00:52:03,599 um if it's a situation to where say the curb and sidewalk are 20 feet 675 00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:06,460 apart in that case technically a tree would be 676 00:52:05,119 --> 00:52:10,240 allowed there [Music] 677 00:52:08,559 --> 00:52:15,760 in that instance i think it might be beneficial to have a permit 678 00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:20,319 process to say okay we'll allow it you know code allows it but we want to 679 00:52:18,559 --> 00:52:24,000 have a permit process so that way we can help you 680 00:52:21,599 --> 00:52:26,720 allocate where that tree is going to go um 681 00:52:24,720 --> 00:52:30,559 and make sure that you know well we have utilities 682 00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:32,400 you know here and so we want your tree to be 683 00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:34,960 set back at least far enough that it's not gonna we don't anticipate it being 684 00:52:34,079 --> 00:52:38,720 an issue here you know a previous community i was 685 00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:45,040 with people ended up planting a whole row 686 00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:49,920 of bradford pear trees in conjunction with some cedar trees 687 00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:55,119 right underneath our power lines and that wasn't an issue for 10 years 688 00:52:55,200 --> 00:53:01,040 then we had to come in and lop off the top 689 00:52:59,119 --> 00:53:06,720 of all these cedar trees because they were getting into our power lines and 690 00:53:03,119 --> 00:53:11,280 we upset those people and you know i i would rather avoid that scenario if we 691 00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:16,559 could i guess one thing it would do would be 692 00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:22,319 maybe give them some guidance on the types of trees if you put a 693 00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:24,480 say a weeping willow 10 feet from the street 694 00:53:23,119 --> 00:53:27,599 it's not going to be that far down the road before that tree is going to be all 695 00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:30,800 over the all over on the street 696 00:53:39,599 --> 00:53:48,400 so i say we don't have a permit but um you know given that 697 00:53:46,319 --> 00:53:52,800 these planting procedures called for certain things 698 00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:56,880 um you know i when we had this scenario last year i 699 00:53:55,440 --> 00:54:01,440 made a permit um that was if i recall correctly i 700 00:54:00,079 --> 00:54:04,400 think just on a sheet of paper you know we didn't have any kind of formal 701 00:54:02,559 --> 00:54:10,400 documents so i said well this is the the street tree permit 702 00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:15,680 but um you know we certainly could make something a little more formalized if 703 00:54:12,319 --> 00:54:19,200 um you know we want to try and do this a little more frequently 704 00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:24,319 and if there was a desire to say all right 705 00:54:20,720 --> 00:54:28,240 within these parameters say a permit will be required 706 00:54:25,839 --> 00:54:32,640 uh i do think that that would be beneficial 707 00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:36,319 as you said to at least try to help provide some guidance on 708 00:54:34,559 --> 00:54:39,359 you know what trees to utilize as well as you know where might be the best 709 00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:46,079 place to put those we're in the uh creative mode 710 00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:48,720 uh of late and so i think we could probably whip one of them up pretty 711 00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:53,520 quickly if we had to travis has been creating 712 00:54:52,319 --> 00:54:55,760 stuff all day really 713 00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:04,480 all right that sounds that sounds great so then if um 714 00:55:02,559 --> 00:55:08,720 travis is interested in creating that for the city then i guess we can leave 715 00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:08,720 it in the code 716 00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:13,440 very well 717 00:55:15,599 --> 00:55:22,640 okay is that all 413-5 uh the only thing that city attorney saw 718 00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:25,839 lander mentioned when i went over this section of code with 719 00:55:24,240 --> 00:55:30,880 him was um that he recommended looking at both 720 00:55:28,319 --> 00:55:34,079 prairie village and lenexa's tree policies i thought they were pretty 721 00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:37,359 pretty good policies i haven't had a chance to 722 00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:41,520 look at those yet but i'll try to look at those as well 723 00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:45,680 and if i see anything that looks to be beneficial i'll try to bring 724 00:55:44,079 --> 00:55:52,079 that back for your your consideration okay 725 00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:52,079 that sounds good thank you 726 00:55:52,400 --> 00:56:03,839 okay we'll go ahead and move on to 13-6 727 00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:13,520 um the only thing i've seen in 13-405 uh third sentence last word 728 00:56:14,559 --> 00:56:19,040 whatever that word is is it spelled right 729 00:56:22,559 --> 00:56:31,119 the deleterious or whatever is that right i don't even know where it 730 00:56:28,839 --> 00:56:35,839 is well i think that is what it's supposed 731 00:56:35,359 --> 00:56:45,839 to be because it's also there in the uh 732 00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:45,839 a couple words previous to that 733 00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:54,000 charge of gas or other substance deleterious tree line 734 00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:58,160 but yeah we can get that addressed and certainly we can 735 00:56:56,000 --> 00:57:01,599 use a probably try to find a synonym for that 736 00:56:59,599 --> 00:57:04,079 that's a little bit clearer to the to the layman 737 00:57:02,720 --> 00:57:06,400 because i don't think many people are going to understand what deleterious 738 00:57:05,359 --> 00:57:13,839 means i don't 739 00:57:14,720 --> 00:57:17,359 harmful 740 00:57:19,119 --> 00:57:29,119 there you go that's a lot better i didn't have anything else marked here 741 00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:34,400 so long as this all is something that you currently 742 00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:34,400 practice 743 00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:41,599 yeah the biggest thing uh that we run into currently 744 00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:45,680 is really the the tree trimming i'm trying to make sure that people keep 745 00:57:43,119 --> 00:57:52,240 their trees trimmed back in a lot of cases they don't and so 746 00:57:48,799 --> 00:57:56,160 you know that's a situation to where we'll come in and we'll take care of it 747 00:57:54,319 --> 00:58:00,240 uh and then we run into challenges at times we are in the 748 00:57:59,119 --> 00:58:04,960 process of trying to make sure we notify people 749 00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:09,440 that hey in this situation because it's been 750 00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:13,280 allowed to grow like this for so long we'll take care of it this time but from 751 00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:18,240 this point forward we're gonna expect you to maintain the tree and keep it 752 00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:21,200 trimmed back from um from becoming an issue if it becomes an issue again in 753 00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:24,720 the future then you're going to have to take care 754 00:58:22,799 --> 00:58:28,960 of it or you know we'll take care of it and bill you for it 755 00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:31,839 but you know we're trying to work with people and 756 00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:36,880 at least get it into compliance initially and then moving 757 00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:41,440 moving from that point forward i do think that 758 00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:47,119 in section 13-407 uh second to the last line the section 759 00:58:44,559 --> 00:58:52,000 within five days five days is pretty pretty short notice 760 00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:55,760 to get things done especially if you got to hire somebody 761 00:58:53,359 --> 00:58:58,960 to get it accomplished in five days is probably nearly impossible 762 00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:11,520 so do you think 10 is more reasonable i sure think it would be a lot better 763 00:59:07,599 --> 00:59:14,240 okay okay that sounds good jody does that sound good with you 764 00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:21,680 yeah i was just trying to think of a happy compromise if we left it at 765 00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:26,240 five but i was able to show you in good faith that i had somebody coming out 766 00:59:24,799 --> 00:59:29,440 with you know i already had an appointment with somebody that would 767 00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:33,280 come out and help me would you want to leave it at the five 768 00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:37,440 so you're not going back and forth with five days ten days 769 00:59:34,799 --> 00:59:40,240 eight days but it's five day at least in five days 770 00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:43,200 in good faith i've made contact with somebody 771 00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:49,440 that will take care of the problem i don't know if that's how floor if that 772 00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:52,559 hurts it so in most cases what we currently do and grant we haven't had a 773 00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:56,079 lot of these issues with with tree trimming 774 00:59:53,119 --> 01:00:00,480 uh this point but similar scenarios with weeds notices or 775 00:59:57,520 --> 01:00:02,960 you know nuisance violations etc uh if somebody has 776 01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:07,839 you know we we've provided notice we give them 10 days in most cases 777 01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:11,680 and they call us and say hey i need a little bit of extra time 778 01:00:09,119 --> 01:00:15,520 i've got my uncle coming you know next weekend 779 01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:19,680 you know so i need 15 days instead of 10 because you know my leg is broken i 780 01:00:17,599 --> 01:00:22,799 can't move my yard or whatever the case we're willing to work with people as 781 01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:24,559 long as they communicate with us and they 782 01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:28,880 you know we know that they're working on it so you know 783 01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:32,400 we do try to be flexible and work with people but 784 01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:36,319 you know in in the cases in which we give notice and don't 785 01:00:33,599 --> 01:00:41,200 hear anything at all then it's okay we go in on the 11th day or as soon as we 786 01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:44,960 can thereafter and take care of it and you know if you're not going to 787 01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:48,640 communicate with us let us know you're going to you're that you're 788 01:00:46,079 --> 01:00:53,760 actively working on it that's when it really is a hard deadline and um 789 01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:59,599 and certainly if you know somebody it's a situation to where they abuse it 790 01:00:55,520 --> 01:01:02,960 and it's happens consistently that um they ask for an extension we give them 791 01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:05,839 an extension and it still doesn't get done 792 01:01:03,599 --> 01:01:09,839 then it's okay the next time it happens i'm sorry 793 01:01:07,599 --> 01:01:14,720 it's ten days because you know we worked with you the last three times 794 01:01:11,599 --> 01:01:17,119 and in none of those cases did you ever get it accomplished we had to do it in 795 01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:19,359 every case so 796 01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:26,319 are most of those cases ten days then rather than the five 797 01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:30,960 ten days is the more customary number yes 798 01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:34,160 okay and then maybe it's not a bad idea to change it to ten 799 01:01:35,119 --> 01:01:38,240 that would be more consistent 800 01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:55,440 are there any other comments between both 13-6 801 01:01:51,599 --> 01:01:55,440 and 13-7 802 01:01:57,520 --> 01:02:07,520 um on 13-408 and i don't know i just got marked under 803 01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:10,240 the last sentence or upon any private grounds 804 01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:21,839 that was right away public park or upon any private grounds 805 01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:37,680 you know i don't know there definitely needs to be some 806 01:02:35,599 --> 01:02:40,880 some notice given i mean i think just to trump on somebody's 807 01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:44,960 property and start whacking up their trees uh 808 01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:44,960 better tread lightly 809 01:02:47,599 --> 01:02:52,079 so the way the way that i understand it is um they would have noticed so like in 810 01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:56,640 the trimming instance since that's um where an 811 01:02:54,799 --> 01:03:00,480 authorization is made for it it gives that person notice of 10 days now 812 01:02:59,039 --> 01:03:03,160 that we just changed it but it seems as though there should be 813 01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:07,920 notice um [Music] 814 01:03:04,799 --> 01:03:11,039 to the person of any violation before the city forester will go in and 815 01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:15,039 actually start cutting things i mean the only 816 01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:18,319 thing i can think of if it's private grounds would be if it is violating 817 01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:20,880 something like it trees are growing into electric lines 818 01:03:19,599 --> 01:03:27,520 at least that's the way i read it chris is that kind of how you understand it 819 01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:27,520 yeah it just needs to 820 01:03:27,839 --> 01:03:32,319 stay out of city utilities essentially and i do think there's provisions in 821 01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:37,920 there uh for you know if it's got uh the 822 01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:43,039 what is it the ash borer you know the the various tree funguses 823 01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:46,720 or um insects that can be infectious and kill a whole swath of you know a 824 01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:50,720 whole community of trees um that at that point the city forester 825 01:03:49,839 --> 01:03:54,480 could say hey this even though it's on private property 826 01:03:52,079 --> 01:03:58,000 this tree needs to go or else you know the entire the entire town's 827 01:03:56,319 --> 01:04:01,839 trees could all die so we're gonna basically kill this tree 828 01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:06,559 quarantine it because you know we're trying to get rid of the 829 01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:09,760 virus before it spreads well maybe you could just put a mask 830 01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:26,640 13-408 it needs to be i think something needs to be spelled out in there that 831 01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:30,960 that notice be given to the the property owner 832 01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:34,799 so we don't just wheel in there and and do something and they're just completely 833 01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:41,839 shocked that their tree got removed you know up by their house or something 834 01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:52,160 or upon any private grounds it's i think that next that next section 835 01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:56,240 there as authorized we're not going to go upon private 836 01:04:54,400 --> 01:05:00,240 grounds to to do anything unless it's authorized by 837 01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:05,760 the article and the and the article authorizes what 838 01:05:03,039 --> 01:05:14,240 areas we have that authority to um to do any kind of removal or trimming 839 01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:21,920 etc so we already should have provided notice and whatnot due to the provisions 840 01:05:18,880 --> 01:05:24,640 required in that in those other and those other sections 841 01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:31,039 which would basically be the east 842 01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:42,079 well in oh it also says uh 843 01:05:39,680 --> 01:05:45,119 every owner of any tree overhanging any street or right of way within the city 844 01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:49,039 shall trim the branches so that such branches should not obstruct the light 845 01:05:46,880 --> 01:05:52,720 and so forth so even if that tree is not within the easement 846 01:05:50,799 --> 01:05:55,680 even if it's on their side of the sidewalk 847 01:05:54,079 --> 01:05:59,039 they're still required to keep the branches trimmed 848 01:05:57,280 --> 01:06:03,680 so as not to obstruct the light or obstruct the view of an intersection 849 01:06:00,799 --> 01:06:08,960 etc a weeping willow you know if it's a massive weeping willow and 850 01:06:05,200 --> 01:06:12,559 and stretches a long ways uh you know sidewalks only let's say eight 851 01:06:11,119 --> 01:06:16,559 foot from the curb and whipping willows right there that 852 01:06:14,559 --> 01:06:21,440 weeping willow can can droop down into the street and that's not allowed 853 01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:26,640 it has to be a foot above the surface of the street 854 01:06:24,640 --> 01:06:29,440 and so we could come in there even though that weeping willow is a private 855 01:06:28,559 --> 01:06:33,440 tree but it is overhanging the city street 856 01:06:32,079 --> 01:06:36,880 city right-of-way and it is out of compliance if it is 857 01:06:36,079 --> 01:06:41,440 less than eight eight feet uh above the street surface 858 01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:44,720 so we could come in there and trim that if they don't take care of it 859 01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:48,799 themselves they should take care of it themselves 860 01:06:46,559 --> 01:06:52,720 that would come in 10 days notice so they would be notified 861 01:06:50,799 --> 01:06:55,760 yes so that's what you just changed currently it's five but 862 01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:59,359 you're saying we would have to provide 10 days notice if we wanted to 863 01:06:59,520 --> 01:07:04,559 to go in there and take care of it ourselves because the private property 864 01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:08,240 owner hasn't good enough as long as they get notified 865 01:07:09,039 --> 01:07:18,960 and and get a chance to protest it or comply with it 866 01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:21,839 yep okay was there anything else over these two pages 867 01:07:22,799 --> 01:07:31,359 nope okay then we'll go ahead and move on to 13-8 article 5 868 01:07:28,319 --> 01:07:34,880 numbering of buildings does anyone have any 869 01:07:35,119 --> 01:07:43,839 questions or comments on this section 870 01:07:46,160 --> 01:07:50,480 i did not okay 871 01:07:53,039 --> 01:07:57,280 okay um then we'll go ahead and go to i didn't either so 872 01:07:56,079 --> 01:08:02,559 uh commissioner cole did you have anything on this i didn't 873 01:07:59,599 --> 01:08:05,280 thanks okay yeah all right so article 6 street lighting 874 01:08:03,580 --> 01:08:12,799 [Music] this first page 13-9 875 01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:20,400 i didn't have anything marked on this page yeah i did not either 876 01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:24,640 commissioner call i don't have anything marked i didn't know if there was 877 01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:28,799 anything on the city side that they is there anything on that page that 878 01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:28,799 concerns them 879 01:08:30,319 --> 01:08:36,960 i don't have any concerns on this on this page 880 01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:41,839 okay all right then uh 13-10 is the section continued i'm assuming 881 01:08:40,239 --> 01:08:47,679 everyone's probably okay with this as well i am 882 01:08:45,440 --> 01:08:47,679 okay 883 01:08:49,839 --> 01:09:00,400 my only thought would just be um might look to on whereas f says 884 01:08:57,839 --> 01:09:04,480 of not less than 250 feet in residential areas and 885 01:09:01,199 --> 01:09:10,080 trying to increase street lighting um to try and you know improve the 886 01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:13,920 the lighting of our streets uh you might also 887 01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:16,880 consider the same type of thing for e um you know 888 01:09:14,319 --> 01:09:21,279 f sets a minimum we might also want to try to set a minimum 889 01:09:18,080 --> 01:09:24,480 for um for some of these for for some lighting i know you know 890 01:09:23,359 --> 01:09:27,759 personally i feel like a lot of our street lights 891 01:09:26,159 --> 01:09:31,279 are a little bit dark especially in some of 892 01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:34,719 our more well-traveled areas you know 893 01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:37,759 downtown maple street you know you go to some other 894 01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:42,159 communities and it just feels a lot more well-lit um and 895 01:09:40,319 --> 01:09:46,239 especially in the commercial areas and even in the 896 01:09:42,880 --> 01:09:49,359 residential areas i still feel like it's you know i have a street light right i 897 01:09:47,839 --> 01:09:53,120 have a street light in my yard and i still feel like that's that's not 898 01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:56,560 very bright um you know i would look to rather than 899 01:09:55,520 --> 01:10:01,520 being a strict 9 500 lumens or 25 000 lumens 900 01:09:59,840 --> 01:10:04,560 you know maybe we set that as a minimum and you know if we have an opportunity 901 01:10:03,360 --> 01:10:09,679 to say hey let's uh improve the uh 902 01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:12,960 the lighting along maple street or downtown district you know 903 01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:17,199 as we go i wouldn't necessarily try to swap them all out 904 01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:20,880 you know at once but you know as a bulb goes out maybe we 905 01:10:18,480 --> 01:10:25,440 instead of 25 000 lumens we make it you know 27.5 or something downtown 906 01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:31,840 i think that's a good idea i think that it should be a minimum as opposed to 907 01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:31,840 just the standard 908 01:10:33,679 --> 01:10:48,880 sounds good to me okay uh so we will go ahead and move on 909 01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:54,719 to 13-11 article seven police agreements 910 01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:58,880 since we were just um dealing with the police agreement 911 01:10:56,000 --> 01:11:02,560 our i'm assuming that most of this probably looks good chris or you would 912 01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:05,679 have had a chance to look at that then do you know anything that needs to be 913 01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:11,120 changed based on our recent conversations no other than 914 01:11:09,199 --> 01:11:16,239 you know there are some words that have hyphens in them 915 01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:21,120 that aren't necessary but um i did speak with terry about it and he felt like 916 01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:24,080 this whole article article seven isn't needed 917 01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:27,760 um but that it doesn't hurt to leave it in so it's really up to 918 01:11:26,239 --> 01:11:32,719 the commission whether you want to keep it in the code or 919 01:11:29,360 --> 01:11:36,960 or remove it we do have the the police agreements that we do individually with 920 01:11:34,719 --> 01:11:40,560 the the various companies that we have these agreements with 921 01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:44,719 so if you decide to remove it you know all those will stay in effect 922 01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:48,800 and if we do future ones we'll similarly do those agreements with them as well so 923 01:11:47,360 --> 01:11:53,040 leaving it in the code doesn't hurt us but it also 924 01:11:50,480 --> 01:11:56,480 doesn't really serve much of a purpose so this uh 925 01:11:54,800 --> 01:12:02,719 right now it doesn't guide and direct your police agreements at all 926 01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:06,560 so we essentially i mean if you wanted to leave it in to try to 927 01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:11,679 make sure that they were all uniform or had the same provisions we 928 01:12:10,159 --> 01:12:16,159 could certainly do that to try to make sure hey 929 01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:22,080 that way they're all uniform um but to be frank what we do is we take uh the 930 01:12:20,400 --> 01:12:26,800 standard standard police agreement that we already have and we essentially 931 01:12:24,719 --> 01:12:30,880 you know change the names of hey this one is quickcom 932 01:12:27,760 --> 01:12:33,679 and this is our agreement and it's you know 933 01:12:31,360 --> 01:12:36,159 currently three dollars a a year per poll and and 934 01:12:34,880 --> 01:12:41,280 terry and i are working on obviously trying to get that increased but 935 01:12:37,920 --> 01:12:45,280 um but the the agreements are all basically just a 936 01:12:42,960 --> 01:12:50,159 template that we utilize and so in the event that we have 937 01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:54,640 um future agreements that come come by it'll just follow that same template 938 01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:58,560 would be the idea right when i'm looking at this right now it 939 01:12:56,159 --> 01:13:01,360 looks like it i mean it specifies a lot of things you know like 940 01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:05,040 people can't just connect whatever they want to your polls i mean it seems like 941 01:13:03,679 --> 01:13:10,080 it i don't know would be prudent to keep it 942 01:13:07,840 --> 01:13:14,719 based on it not just being about the agreement itself but 943 01:13:12,960 --> 01:13:17,760 it has a little bit more than just that and i i don't know if that's addressed 944 01:13:16,400 --> 01:13:22,080 somewhere else or why he would think it's not necessary so 945 01:13:20,239 --> 01:13:27,679 i do believe it was on well was it 946 01:13:25,440 --> 01:13:27,679 in 947 01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:33,840 13-706 seems like something that should be in there 948 01:13:34,080 --> 01:13:41,840 yeah and i was thinking that we had another section here that addressed 949 01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:47,199 that in particular um in terms of poll attachments that were 950 01:13:44,080 --> 01:13:51,280 not approved type situations that might be in utilities but um but 951 01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:57,280 anyways i i can verify that and then let you know um and 952 01:13:55,040 --> 01:14:00,400 like i said there's no harm in leaving it in certainly so if you 953 01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:04,400 just want to continue to leave it in that's perfectly fine 954 01:14:02,560 --> 01:14:06,800 i'm just thinking if someone connects something to one of your polls 955 01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:10,400 isn't this where you'd get the enforcement to say um that's against our 956 01:14:09,199 --> 01:14:14,080 code it certainly does give us that i was 957 01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:17,440 thinking that there's another area of code that is duplicative of that but 958 01:14:16,960 --> 01:14:22,400 uh if i'll all look for that and if i find 959 01:14:21,199 --> 01:14:27,920 that then we can address that as well okay that sounds good 960 01:14:26,159 --> 01:14:32,400 i think so too i think we should leave it until we find it 961 01:14:29,840 --> 01:14:35,440 either in a place because i i think it does 962 01:14:32,880 --> 01:14:37,840 i have a lot of specifics that would be helpful 963 01:14:39,840 --> 01:14:44,960 that sounds good in that that brings us to the end since you had mentioned the 964 01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:49,679 hyphens uh that are misplaced i mean you also 965 01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:54,000 notice the 13-12 one at the very top but yeah so i guess 966 01:14:52,239 --> 01:15:00,800 we'll just uh wait to hear if um this is addressed elsewhere and 967 01:14:57,120 --> 01:15:03,840 with that we have finished the section so does anyone have any other comments 968 01:15:02,239 --> 01:15:07,360 or questions over the streets and sidewalks section 969 01:15:05,040 --> 01:15:15,360 before we go to our second citizens to be heard 970 01:15:11,040 --> 01:15:22,960 i do not okay i don't have any questions uh is there a plan or a date 971 01:15:18,640 --> 01:15:22,960 to go forward with the traffic 972 01:15:23,440 --> 01:15:27,199 i didn't know if we talked about that or is that something we can talk about it 973 01:15:26,320 --> 01:15:31,199 tomorrow night as well but just to kind of know and 974 01:15:29,840 --> 01:15:34,880 advance what we're going to be covering so i can review it again i've read 975 01:15:33,040 --> 01:15:39,520 through it but i would think that whenever um yeah i 976 01:15:38,239 --> 01:15:41,040 don't i don't know if we will get one and 977 01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:44,239 i mean before the end of the year at least for me to be involved so 978 01:15:42,960 --> 01:15:47,120 i mean if we do want to try that that's fine with me but it would be just that 979 01:15:46,159 --> 01:15:54,400 one section the traffic section 980 01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:56,960 um but yeah we can discuss it tomorrow if you all think that you have any days 981 01:15:55,760 --> 01:16:02,719 we can just see if we do before the end of the year 982 01:15:58,560 --> 01:16:02,719 and then you'll have to take over 983 01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:11,440 dumping cody's yeah well at least we've done you know a good 984 01:16:10,239 --> 01:16:16,080 portion of the work so that's right no one could have 985 01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:19,920 predicted there would have been uh well that coveted would have happened 986 01:16:18,239 --> 01:16:24,000 the year 2020 would have happened this way 987 01:16:20,960 --> 01:16:29,120 yeah i know i do i'm sorry no go ahead chris i was gonna 988 01:16:26,800 --> 01:16:32,400 say i do appreciate uh all of your efforts to 989 01:16:30,239 --> 01:16:36,480 uh to go through this this has been a heck of a lot of work and 990 01:16:34,560 --> 01:16:40,480 certainly especially here in the last few months we put a lot of meetings and 991 01:16:38,960 --> 01:16:44,719 a lot of time into into moving further on this so i i do 992 01:16:42,960 --> 01:16:49,440 appreciate all of your efforts and and getting us to where we're at so 993 01:16:47,040 --> 01:16:53,920 thank you very much not a problem it's something i rather 994 01:16:51,840 --> 01:16:58,480 enjoy i still have everything that we have yet 995 01:16:54,719 --> 01:17:02,320 to come noted so if you need any help i'd be more than happy to attend 996 01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:07,600 the meetings whenever you do discuss it we welcome you to do that 997 01:17:04,239 --> 01:17:10,719 yeah so all right um without any other comments here are 998 01:17:09,040 --> 01:17:13,600 there any citizens who would like to be heard 999 01:17:14,080 --> 01:17:21,120 all right seen that okay good then saying none i will go ahead and make a 1000 01:17:18,480 --> 01:17:25,520 motion to adjourned right here a second oh second all right it's been moved and 1001 01:17:23,040 --> 01:17:31,520 seconded all in favor say aye aye aye all right 1002 01:17:28,640 --> 01:17:31,520 thank you so