[0:00] meeting to order if you will stand with
me and say the pledge of legion
[0:08] i pledge allegiance to the flag of the
united states of america
[0:13] and from the republic for which it
stands one nation
[0:17] under god indivisible with liberty and
justice
[0:24] okay and i'll go ahead and give the
invocation
[0:27] our heavenly father we are so thankful
for this time that we have together we
[0:31] thank you for allowing us to take
a moment during this busy holiday season
[0:34] to be able to conduct business of the
city
[0:37] please help guide and direct our
discussions so that they fall into the
[0:40] will that you have prepared
for our lives and the lives of the
[0:43] people in our community
amen thank you
[0:49] all right uh citizens to be heard
[0:56] all right seeing as how i don't believe
there is anyone who has anything to say
[1:00] we'll go ahead and move on to
chapter 13 streets and sidewalks
[1:08] so we'll go ahead and start with article
one sidewalk so page
[1:12] i guess 13-1
[1:16] all right did anyone have any thing on
this section that they would like to
[1:20] discuss
or any corrections i guess in 13-10
[1:27] uh that rate of one inch
to four feet that is an ada compliant
[1:33] number
[1:37] yes i believe that uh it's two percent
grade
[1:40] i believe one to four is the appropriate
uh the appropriate grade i can
[1:48] verify with garrett to make sure but
i know so it's a two percent grade it's
[1:56] all very powerful
[2:06] okay
okay were there any other comments over
[2:11] this page
[2:17] i didn't have any okay
you know to the uh best of your
[2:23] knowledge
if all of this is still accurate
[2:27] i mean um yeah i guess if it's accurate
if this is how
[2:31] things are conducted
yes okay and we
[2:40] i don't believe this particular section
um references our sidewalk program that
[2:47] we have
but uh that'd be the only other thing
[2:53] that's more of a
[2:56] policy decision based on budgetary
funding uh more
[3:00] than it is uh but then i'd recommend
being law
[3:03] so i think that's why i leave that out
thank you okay so go ahead and turn the
[3:09] page to 13-2 there is not
much here and i did not have anything
[3:14] changing this did you all have anything
on this page i did not
[3:18] i did not okay so go ahead and move on
through
[3:22] that three or four two remote removal of
snow and
[3:25] or ice
[3:30] i didn't have any marked on this page
[3:34] yeah i didn't either chris do you know
uh the ksa that it references if it's
[3:38] supposed to have the e at the end of
that there
[3:41] or um
i didn't know if the e was supposed to
[3:46] be bracketed or if
it's even supposed to be there
[3:52] i am not entirely sure so i will
check and verify that that is the
[3:58] correct normally
uh those will be bracketed but i'll i'll
[4:03] check into that and
[4:06] okay sounds good
was there anything else or oh
[4:16] commissioner cole do you have anything
for this page oh sorry what chris
[4:20] uh i was just gonna say the the last
section there
[4:24] a removal uh of these
of snow and ice
[4:31] so this is one particular section
that similarly we have rarely enforced
[4:38] um it's something that
i think does make a lot of sense in some
[4:44] aspects especially in downtown districts
and areas that are
[4:47] heavily traveled uh if we if you know we
were to have
[4:52] you know sidewalks heading to all the
way to the high school all the way to
[4:55] the elementary school
that were heavily utilized for
[4:57] pedestrian traffic
and they weren't cleared of snow we
[5:03] could have kids walking on the street
etc currently we don't have a ton of
[5:08] that
but it is something that according to
[5:12] city code we should be enforcing and
one of those things that as we've
[5:18] discussed
discussed on some other things in the
[5:20] past would you prefer
us to start enforcing it more strictly
[5:25] to be in compliance with code or would
you prefer to remove it
[5:29] i would like to one way or the other
either strike it
[5:33] or start forcing it because i don't like
having things in the book that we don't
[5:37] enforce
but it's been one of those things that's
[5:41] do we really go after somebody to
you know remove their snow this
[5:50] instance
[5:54] i mean i would i would agree i think
that if it's going to remain in here
[5:57] that it's something that would need to
be used i kind of wonder though if i
[6:02] mean before it's actually
removed by the city i'm assuming that
[6:05] there would be a notice given to the
[Music]
[6:08] individual at the house correct
[6:14] well and if it was something to where
um enforcement action
[6:22] to where we need to go and take care of
it
[6:28] there is no notice provision in here
given
[6:33] more than likely what we would attempt
to do uh
[6:36] you know we haven't really done this
before but we couldn't give 10 days
[6:40] notice like we do for weeds because the
snow is going to be gone
[6:42] and all eventuality for uh
by that time frame but if it's not
[6:49] taken care of within the appropriate
time frame then we would probably
[6:52] try to place place a door hanger
something to that effect and give
[6:57] 24 hours or something along those lines
and then we would come in and take care
[7:00] of it
um you know if we wanted to to
[7:05] do that my suggestion would be that we
probably add that type of
[7:08] language to the code to say what that
term that period of notice is going to
[7:14] uh is going to be um and certainly
that's something i can you know touch
[7:18] base with terry on to try to
figure out you know what he might think
[7:22] would be
um how to word that but
[7:26] i i think the key is you know as it says
you know
[7:29] the first section the owner or occupant
of any lots
[7:32] a budding any public sidewalk which all
sidewalks are are public unless they are
[7:37] you know going right up to your door uh
if they're going
[7:41] you know parallel to the street then
it's a public sidewalk and so
[7:45] that particular sidewalk should be
clear of snow or ice within
[7:52] six hours from the time of the snowfall
or ice storm
[7:55] according to this code and
again you know it's just six hours um
[8:02] you know that's that can be tough to
i mean we certainly can exercise
[8:08] discretion um
but you know if this if the sn if it
[8:12] stops snowing at 2 a.m
uh there's going to be a lot of people
[8:15] who frankly don't have time
do not get up at 6 a.m to go shovel
[8:20] their sidewalks
so that way kids can walk to school on
[8:23] their sidewalks
but they'd be in violation of code if
[8:26] they don't because
they wouldn't have it shoveled before
[8:29] they got home from work
you know within you know before school
[8:32] started and should we take care of it
should we issue them a ticket
[8:36] i would i would say we probably give a
little bit more time than that
[8:40] um for them to take care of their own
sidewalk uh
[8:43] you know kids may have to trek through
through snow for a little while uh
[8:47] unfortunately but i think we need to
give some reasonable time frame at least
[8:52] that was my question was the six hours
being able to get it completed in six
[8:57] hours because as you said a lot of
people still go to work
[9:00] if there's a few inches of snow on the
sidewalk
[9:04] and if you leave if you leave your home
at 5am you're not going to be out there
[9:10] shoveling it before you leave
[9:17] yeah i agree i also think it's important
to define
[9:22] public sidewalk in this section as well
so that everyone knows
[9:26] who it applies to and which sidewalks
they are to be paying attention to to
[9:34] clear
okay so if we use bridget's house
[9:40] and that would mean the sidewalk that
runs in front of your house
[9:45] right into the side probably on elm yeah
on the east side right
[9:49] yeah that's what i mean i i think if you
were somebody getting up and going to
[9:52] work in the city or just going to work
here
[9:55] i don't know that six hours would give
you time to get up
[9:58] you know to be able to get up and get
that completed so maybe it's
[10:05] that's a lot of sidewalk
[10:10] yeah i agree i think that i mean i don't
know since
[10:14] the idea is to try to clear it as soon
as possible should we extend it to
[10:18] within 24 hours
i mean the other thing the other
[10:24] question i have
should there be a difference between
[10:27] downtown area
and maybe bridget's house you know maybe
[10:32] that time frame looks a little bit
different i don't know
[10:35] maybe not maybe it's the same
[10:47] i wouldn't think you'd have as many
people you know walking by your
[10:51] and you live on a busy street but even
on a day like that i wouldn't think
[10:54] you'd have as many people walking by as
there may be people down
[10:56] in the downtown area paying bills
running errands
[11:00] going to post office those kinds of
things
[11:12] my only thing by leaving it in there um
where they're strictly enforced or not
[11:18] it just
it may give them a little bit of
[11:23] insight that ms if somebody falls
in front of your business or your your
[11:29] house
and it's a public sidewalk
[11:33] you probably got some liability if you
made no attempt to
[11:36] to to get it off there so by leaving
this in there it just
[11:40] i guess it just kind of throws it down a
little bit that it is
[11:44] it is something that needs taken care of
[11:48] now chris from what i can tell this
section the way it reads under a
[11:52] it's defining public sidewalk as a
sidewalk within a business or industrial
[11:56] zone
or um if there have been a business or
[11:59] commercial use within the past 12 months
so i don't think that would necessarily
[12:02] apply to
a residential area if i'm reading this
[12:08] correctly on the six-hour time frame
right sorry sorry
[12:16] what you said greg my someone was
calling me and it muted my phone
[12:19] so on the six-hour time frame you're
talking about it looks like it would
[12:23] only apply to those um
sidewalks and business or industrial
[12:26] zones as it's a clarification to
one and two specifically two
[12:32] well both of those
[12:36] yeah i think after
after rereading it i i would concur
[12:44] that i i think you're right and that
[12:49] it's it's only referencing
commercial or industrial lots
[12:57] for that time frame
[13:01] so that may not be you know necessarily
an issue for say you
[13:04] um for your house in an
uh in a residential district it'd really
[13:10] be
anybody who's zoned i1 b1 b2
[13:15] um or even if they're not zoned that way
but they are
[13:20] their use is commercial or industrial
it would still qualify there or if it's
[13:26] been commercial or industrial within the
past
[13:29] 12 months it would still qualify as
needing to be done
[13:35] from public sector removed from public
sidewalk right and i can see
[13:39] why it's in a business zone the time
frame
[13:42] you know might be a little more
important or a little shorter because
[13:45] that's
i mean the idea is to that people be
[13:48] frequenting those businesses so they
need to clear their sidewalks
[14:02] you know i would think having something
in there
[14:06] to instead of just a hard six hours
maybe making it um
[14:12] within if you wanted to leave six hours
to say within six hours
[14:17] uh or if you know somehow phrase it if
it's overnight
[14:22] uh within the first two hours of
daylight or something like that i mean
[14:26] if
if it stops snowing at you know at 10
[14:29] o'clock
it's you're not going to expect somebody
[14:32] to get to be out there between
10 and 4 a.m 10 p.m and 4 a.m to get a
[14:37] shovel to be in compliance
um even if it is a business zone you
[14:41] know right
six hours after sunrise of the following
[14:48] day
in the the a2
[14:55] you're right i'm just losing my mind
here
[15:00] i even read that exact sentence okay
[15:05] okay so should we ju i mean do we feel
okay with leaving this section the way
[15:09] that it is
i think since it just pertains to
[15:13] business as their commercial purpose
yeah i would favor of leaving it exactly
[15:18] the way it is
so the only thing that it talks about on
[15:21] the private property
is just where you can and cannot
[15:26] get rid of the piles of snow correct
okay thanks
[15:31] and so i would say it's probably
okay for now if you want to exempt
[15:38] residential areas from these
from these provisions um the only thing
[15:43] i would
say is if in the event that we ever do
[15:46] get a
you know we're hoping to at some point
[15:49] have a safe route to schools grant
and get uh better access via sidewalks
[15:55] to both the elementary school and the
high school
[15:58] in the event we that ever becomes a
reality
[16:02] it might be something at that point to
try to designate those routes
[16:05] as snow has to be removed within a
certain time frame at least along these
[16:09] routes
to try to make sure the kids can can
[16:13] safely get there
right but also yeah i would think if it
[16:18] was
to the school even though the property
[16:22] would be owned
by the city a lot of it the school would
[16:25] probably work hand-in-hand with you
getting some of that removed
[16:31] well i mean i would i mean you're
talking about
[16:34] it could be a distance all the way to
you know i mean all the way across town
[16:40] down cleveland street or you know
[16:44] down maple or well maple's a business
district anyways but
[16:48] but i was thinking more more in
residential areas that that would be
[16:51] um a sidewalk route for a lot of
kids to to walk to school that you know
[16:59] it probably give more than six hours but
a time frame in which you know within a
[17:05] 24 to 48 hours that residences along
that route are expected to have
[17:11] uh snow removed but we're not in that
situation right now anyway so
[17:15] that's probably future discussion but
i'll just throw that out there for maybe
[17:20] future future thought
kind of going off of lawrence
[17:26] the city of lawrence where i lived at
for six years
[17:30] is there any designation of the amount
um or um what
[17:37] uh what
guidelines we need to put in there or
[17:42] whether there's just the dusting or if
there's an
[17:44] inch where they need to
you know clear their sidewalks or put
[17:51] out some sand or
ice melt i i don't know if
[17:56] that needs to be included in there or
not but it is included in
[18:01] the city of lawrence's ordinance
[18:06] that's probably a good point uh
we don't want to run into uh
[18:13] to issues with you know somebody
complaining because well soto didn't
[18:19] shovel their
their sidewalk in front of their
[18:21] business when it was just a dusting but
technically
[18:24] a violation of the law type thing you
know we could certainly use discretion
[18:27] but
if you wanted to try and make it black
[18:29] and white um
you know that wouldn't be bad to say hey
[18:33] if we get two inches or more of snow
that this is applicable
[18:39] or whatever you if you want to leave it
alone then that's fine too but
[18:43] that could be an issue at some point
what is the depth of snow that lawrence
[18:48] uses
cody
[18:54] um
[19:18] and certainly in some cases if you
if we do get a decent amount of ice uh
[19:24] before
snow it's actually better to try to
[19:27] leave the snow
on top than try to take the snow off and
[19:31] then you're just left with a sheet of
ice and
[19:33] that you can't really break through a
lot of times and so
[19:36] it's safer to leave the snow in place
good point
[19:44] the bad thing is if you get like an inch
or two inches of snow and it gets
[19:48] gets all walked on and compacted that
it's going to be a slick situation uh
[19:55] i personally would be for leaving it and
not
[19:59] not calling out so many things um
just for the fact that if it's say two
[20:05] inches it's going to get compacted and
then it's going to be more
[20:11] maybe even slicker and be there longer
[20:17] yeah i would i would tend to agree that
um
[20:20] since those are i mean the idea was to
try to catch those people who
[20:24] those areas that are most frequented by
people that clearing any amount of snow
[20:28] and ice would be important
just for the safety of the people so i'm
[20:32] okay with leaving it um just to include
all snow and ice
[20:40] in the event we run into issues in the
future you can always revisit it
[20:44] yeah okay so i think that
with that in mind knowing that this
[20:49] section regarding snow and ice to be
removed
[20:53] is geared specifically towards business
and industrial zones
[20:57] that would mean that the removal may be
made that is made by the city that also
[21:00] pertains to those business and
industrial zones
[21:03] so i would say you should probably just
go ahead and keep that section since the
[21:07] idea was to try to regulate
those areas and you need to have some
[21:11] mechanism of enforcing that
[21:19] so in terms of uh in terms of notice
you know it will then we'll go in and
[21:26] take care of it if they don't
uh would you have a general thought
[21:30] process on what you'd like to see time
frame wise there
[21:35] we start enforcing this you know if we
start come january february we start to
[21:39] get
significant snows and we have people
[21:42] that aren't compliant
we can go and take care of it but you
[21:46] know when you guys start getting
phone calls if those if those come just
[21:50] kind of want to have an i
be on the same page with hey let's try
[21:53] to make sure we give
you know six hours notice or 24 hours
[21:58] notice or whatever you'd like to see
[22:03] i i mean just the way this is written it
sounds as though they become out of
[22:06] compliance after six hours so that's at
least when first
[22:10] notification should occur if even
possible
[22:14] um it should happen as soon as that
time frame has passed i mean
[22:21] as far as i'm concerned but i don't know
what you all
[22:25] in the think how many times would you
say
[22:29] that this ordinance probably wasn't
followed
[22:35] that people weren't able to to get that
completed
[22:40] so i would say
there's probably a number of
[22:50] when we get a decent snow that this
is probably not followed
[22:57] well the majority of the time
you're going to have some businesses
[23:02] some properties that that are compliant
but for instance according to this code
[23:07] even the
uh the sidewalk in front of
[23:11] uh denise's cafe should be shoveled it's
a
[23:15] downtown district it's a public sidewalk
it's you know and
[23:19] in the past really nobody's been
maintaining that property nobody's been
[23:24] maintaining the vacant lot around you
know beside it so but those areas should
[23:28] be shoveled and so
in the event somebody wants to walk
[23:30] along that sidewalk according to our
code that needs to be done
[23:34] um so in those specific situations
that's probably pretty consistently in
[23:40] the past that
this code has not been followed and we
[23:44] can
start to enforce it and realistically
[23:48] will be the ones shoveling
the uh just like we're the ones in a lot
[23:52] of cases that have been mowing
the vacant lot there um with denise's
[23:58] hopefully with the new owner that
they'll go ahead and get out there and
[24:00] get the sidewalk shoveled be my hope
but i know the the challenges we're
[24:06] gonna
run into especially on some of these
[24:08] vacant properties is gonna be
uh rather extensive with regard to
[24:13] getting people to comply with this so
we're gonna have some time
[24:16] invested in and taking care of it
ourselves until we get people
[24:21] on board with okay same thing with code
enforcement with regard to
[24:25] nuisances and mowing their grass etc
you know once people get hit with the
[24:33] you know the 75 an hour bill from the
city a couple times they figure out
[24:37] i'm going to hire somebody for 20 bucks
an hour to do it because because it's
[24:41] it's costing me money to have this to
not need to be in compliance but
[24:45] it'll probably take some some of those
situations to happen before people will
[24:49] get the picture that we're serious since
we haven't enforced it regularly in the
[24:53] past
how many how many places how many
[24:58] business do you think
that the city would would end up having
[25:03] to do this because
it doesn't just snow on monday through
[25:06] friday you're going to have weekends so
you're going to have to bring employees
[25:09] out
pay overtime or whatever
[25:13] if it's after hours right
true um and
[25:19] you know that's a challenging situation
um
[25:23] especially with regard to you know some
of those that we attempt to make notice
[25:29] on
and um can't make can't complete
[25:33] making notice uh you know there are
properties in town that are owned by
[25:38] somebody who lives in
in texas who we can't ever seem to get a
[25:41] hold of uh
and so you know trying to actually
[25:46] provide that notice that hey you have
you know here's your
[25:49] it's been six hours this isn't taken
care of it's a saturday
[25:52] you need to get this taken care of we're
gonna come back on sunday and take care
[25:55] of it for you if you don't
and you know we don't hear anything
[25:59] certainly
um and realistically in that scenario
[26:03] the only thing we're going to be able to
do is
[26:05] unless we have a phone number which in
most cases we don't will be to tack
[26:09] notice on
the door uh of the of the property or in
[26:12] the case of a vacant lot
um you know try to attach to a stake in
[26:16] the in the
uh in the lot or something and then
[26:20] we're going to be out there
in many cases on uh on a
[26:25] saturday or sunday racking up overtime
for
[26:29] uh a vacant lot there so unless you want
to try to address it a little bit
[26:33] differently
you know i mean you could change it to
[26:35] where
you know it says something along the
[26:38] lines of unless it's a
you know not being utilized at the
[26:43] moment but it you know that there are
businesses on the other side of that uh
[26:48] on the east side
that are in operation you have the
[26:51] watershed
um business down there there's i believe
[26:55] still a uh
picture studio that on that end that
[27:00] over the weekend if they want to walk up
to the mexican restaurant and
[27:04] they can't or they have to walk out in
the street because of all the snow or
[27:07] ice and
you know they get hurt you know we
[27:11] if we're going to enforce it in my mind
you know we need to try to enforce it
[27:14] across the board but it will there will
be a lot of challenges with regard to it
[27:20] sorry my computer won't get there
[Music]
[27:28] but to answer your question
[27:32] three inch accumulation of snow uh
snow plowing that's snow plowing
[27:37] operation
i don't know what it was for down to
[27:41] answer your question jody before my
computer went dead
[27:44] i don't know what uh what the um
minimum accumulation was for downtown or
[27:52] residential but i just knew that there
was
[27:56] some kind of some kind of minimum to
where
[28:03] uh residents or businesses were um
required to remove the snow and
[28:10] apply sand or some kind of ice melt
and i do apologize my computer went dead
[28:18] on me there
but okay thanks
[28:23] i wonder if we touch upon it in the uh
town talk that uh i mean
[28:29] the time frame is already in there that
it's six hours after sunrise the
[28:33] following day
and if that's not completed at the time
[28:38] the city can come in there remove it
and bill them and don't notice no no
[28:45] this is the notice that they got six
hours after the
[28:50] the next day after the sunrise to get it
accomplished and if they don't have it
[28:54] done and the city crews are
caught up to the point where they they
[28:58] can they can knock it out and send them
a bill
[29:01] i don't i don't know if we need to give
notice it's already it's in here
[29:08] i'm just wondering what that does to the
city employees when it's on the weekends
[29:12] or a holiday
or you're still asking them to get out
[29:16] there
if it isn't done
[29:20] well i'm thinking like like denise's for
example
[29:25] even if it's a weekend they're going to
be out there with their blades
[29:28] so like a blade on about
a lot of things like a skid loader uh
[29:35] and probably not the whole from their
building front to the street
[29:40] needs to be removed just so there's a
three foot strip of clear so they can
[29:44] walk from one property to the next
so really they could just set their
[29:48] blade up up there and drag it back to
the street
[29:51] a couple swipes and they they probably
have it done and they're going to be out
[29:54] there
doing snow anyway of course they're
[29:57] wanting to get it removed in lots of
lots of area and not want to dink around
[30:01] with individual properties but
[30:06] you know what i'm saying they're going
to be out anyway and i think a lot of
[30:09] that they could do with the machine
okay mr weiner do you think that's a
[30:15] that's doable
[30:18] i i think so uh you know i
certainly there will be situations if
[30:25] uh you know it's not much
[30:30] if we've already plowed the street let's
say um
[30:33] then go home or or whatnot and they
you know streets are okay but say you
[30:40] know the person's property is
is not because you know now they're
[30:43] success stop snowing
six hours has completed uh
[30:48] streets are okay but now we need to come
back in for this scenario that could
[30:52] be an issue at that point um you know
and that could be an operational
[30:58] challenge finding somebody to come back
in
[31:00] for specifically you know one or two
properties that need to be
[31:04] shoveled my guess is initially we're
probably going to see more than that
[31:07] because
again i i expect that it's going to take
[31:10] a little while to get people
up to speed with okay this is what we're
[31:14] going to start doing even if we put it
in town talk
[31:17] um until we actually enforce it i have a
feeling that there's going to be a
[31:20] number of businesses that
don't expect it to actually happen um or
[31:25] you know vacant properties owners that
don't expect it actually happen
[31:30] but um but i do think you know
in those cases we'd be paying time and a
[31:36] half uh to have somebody come out on a
holiday
[31:38] um you know same situation that's okay
you know you're gonna get extra pay to
[31:43] come out and and take care of this
scenario
[31:46] we should still cover our costs with
regard to that
[31:50] that time because the current rate is 75
dollars an hour
[31:54] i know we talked about
[31:57] on on weeds and whatnot in the past
about having that be a tiered structure
[32:04] and that might be something we look at
here as well for
[32:07] uh for this if you're interested in that
that hey you know first time
[32:11] is x cost second time is x third time is
is higher so that way it's you know if
[32:18] people are just using us
as a snow removal service
[32:22] eventually they're going to decide hey
it's
[32:26] not economical to continue to rely on
the city to do this so
[32:29] we'll hire somebody to do it and and
that way
[32:33] the city doesn't have to any longer but
um
[32:36] but we should cover our cost if the bill
gets paid
[32:39] a lot of cases the bill is probably not
going to be paid
[32:42] same thing we run into with weeds and
everything else will apply to the
[32:45] property taxes
and in a lot of cases we're not going to
[32:49] see that money
because it'll go to a tax sale and it'll
[32:53] sell for pennies on the dollar and
you know we're not going to get our back
[32:56] taxes and our assessments on that but
at least we we have cleared the uh
[33:03] the area made it safe for for pedestrian
travel and
[33:07] you know we've we've enforced our code
as the commission
[33:10] sees fit so i think that's the
that's the goal chris i would imagine
[33:15] with businesses
you might have a little bit different
[33:18] circumstance there where they will
be more likely to pay the fine that's
[33:23] assessed to them
than just a residential homeowner who
[33:27] has
you know overgrown weeds i suppose there
[33:30] it seems like there's more
of an impetus to pay than with maybe a
[33:34] resident
i i would agree i was thinking more
[33:38] along the lines of the the vacant lots
um for instance the nieces that you know
[33:43] in that particular case we had years of
back taxes
[33:46] um we mowed that vacant lot there and
and
[33:50] you know we had sunk costs in there
because every time we we invested any
[33:53] kind of time or resources into that
um you know we didn't get any money back
[33:56] on that and none of those bills got paid
and
[33:59] that's the same general location that
we're talking about now but
[34:02] thankfully there's a new property owner
there and that may be a different
[34:04] scenario moving forward hopefully
that we won't even have to mow it we
[34:08] won't have to uh
to scrape the sidewalk but you know if
[34:12] there's a similar scenario
uh at some point you know it's for
[34:16] instance the chamber players
you know they own the lot down there by
[34:19] patriots bank hopefully
they're able to get over there and get
[34:23] that shovel but
you know is that something to where that
[34:27] volunteer organization is going to be
able to find somebody or pay somebody
[34:32] um to get out there within six hours of
the snow stopping within six hours of
[34:35] sunrise
to get their portion of that sidewalk
[34:46] shoveled
i guess if nothing else you have a
[34:50] little bit of leniency on
weekends with the wording of removal may
[34:54] be made by the city so if you wanted to
wait until the
[34:57] next business day then that's possible i
was also kind of con well not
[35:00] necessarily confused but
questioning what the section on section
[35:05] 203 when it says whatever enforcement
action
[35:08] well in addition to whatever enforcement
action may be taken in the municipal
[35:11] court
so are there additional um enforcement
[35:14] mechanisms that we have
i mean is that referring to fines that
[35:18] the court can assess or
yeah so as anything in your code book
[35:25] if it doesn't specify otherwise is
subject to the general penalty in the
[35:28] code
which i believe is a thousand dollar
[35:30] fine or 30 days in jail
up to either of those it could be a 10
[35:35] fine or you know
12 hours in jail or but the judge has
[35:39] discretion
so it could be that the court levees a
[35:43] fine
in addition to the city removing the
[35:47] snow and ice and billing for our time
okay thank you
[35:56] i think maybe what you were talking
about or referring to
[35:59] might be in the traffic section that
talks about
[36:03] 500 or 30-day
penalty maybe not that might be
[36:08] something else
well and there are sections that deal
[36:14] with
specific um specific fine amounts
[36:18] but anything that doesn't list a
specific fine amount
[36:22] the violations of this code are subject
to the general penalty
[36:28] um which i believe is in the very first
chapter under general provisions i think
[36:35] it's
1 117 where it addresses
[36:40] um whenever any offense is declared by
any provision of this code
[36:44] absent a specific or unique punishment
prescribed
[36:47] the offender shall be punished in
accordance with this section a fine of
[36:50] not more than one thousand dollars
imprisonment imprisonment in jail for
[36:54] not more than 179 days
or both such fine and imprisoned
[36:59] imprisonment not to exceed amd
above so it's the judge
[37:04] can do either of those if there's not a
specific penalty spelled out so if you
[37:08] wanted
to afford a fine
[37:12] less than that or more than that you
would need to specify
[37:17] in here
[37:21] okay thank you
[37:31] all right so do we want to go ahead and
just move forward with the way that it
[37:35] is
and see how enforcement goes
[37:39] for this and then you all can work to
adjust it if need be
[37:45] i prefer to leave it myself
[37:52] okay i am going to leave it if um mr
weiner feels like it's
[37:57] it's workable because there's nothing
worse than having a code and not
[38:02] following it so
i i agree with him we either follow it
[38:06] or we let it go so i guess i'm asking
him
[38:10] do you believe this is one that we can
follow
[38:14] and because it's going to involve
probably city employees to
[38:17] to get some of that done i i think we
can and we can certainly
[38:22] um you know work with people and try to
put something in town talk to to
[38:27] increase awareness of it
i i do expect
[38:35] probably the biggest ones that we have
challenges with
[38:39] uh that are going to be i think
significant challenges will will likely
[38:44] be
like the uh the chamber players property
[38:47] down there because
[38:50] you know they're not there every day you
know we're gonna have businesses
[38:54] that are there every day um that
you know can have somebody go out and
[39:01] shovel the sidewalk or hire somebody to
to take care of that for them they're
[39:04] generating income off of their business
front
[39:06] but when it's vacant property like what
the chamber players has there
[39:10] um that could be a challenge for an
organization like that
[39:13] to uh to either find the volunteer to
take care of it
[39:17] or to uh or to pay somebody to do that i
i anticipate that to be an issue but
[39:24] you know we can have that conversation
with them and say hey this is going to
[39:27] be
an expectation moving forward and
[39:30] hopefully they'll find a way to comply
chris i think sorry
[39:36] go ahead i was just going to say i think
i think that the problem would be
[39:41] is if i owned property or a business
that butted up to people who didn't
[39:48] you know what i mean who didn't shovel
that so
[39:52] i wanted to come to my business are
going to have a hard time tracking
[39:56] through all of that so
very true i think it will be tough for
[40:01] them but i do think
probably it needs to apply the same
[40:06] and there are people that you know park
down there along that
[40:10] uh stretch of the sidewalk all the time
and walk to the bank
[40:14] or you know to wherever so that's what i
was thinking about
[40:18] yeah and if i ran the bank i'd want to
make sure that everybody
[40:22] had access to get in and out of there
get in and out of my business
[40:27] so yeah
[40:33] okay then if we are good with this
section then we can go ahead and move on
[40:36] to article
three
[40:41] tree advisory board now chris
did this even exist not as far as i'm
[40:47] aware i talked to terry about this
and um he doesn't
[40:53] need your recommended removal but we're
not sure when the last time that this
[40:57] board existed
okay so we'll just go ahead and remove
[41:01] it unless there's
a desire to keep it
[41:07] okay sounds good then let's consider
that struck from city code
[41:12] i article four trees and shrubbery
chris do you feel like most of this when
[41:21] you're reading through it as
um something that has been
[41:27] enforced or i guess it refers to the
city forester
[41:31] who would be our city forester
[41:36] well i played the role of city forester
here about a
[41:39] a year ago or you know a little over a
year ago i guess
[41:42] when we were trying to figure out what
to do downtown with the uh
[41:47] with the shrubs that were planted in
that median there on 5th street
[41:53] that was somewhat challenging and trying
to figure out
[41:56] okay well to comply with our planting
procedures here there is a decent amount
[42:00] of work to be done
um and so we did at least in that case
[42:05] make sure that that those rules were
were followed
[42:08] um with regard to the
uh you know other trees that have been
[42:13] planted in the city and
i i can't really speak to you know
[42:17] historically if things have been done
um
[42:23] taking this into account i do know that
we run into issues at times
[42:28] especially with trees uh in the
in the right of way or in the easement
[42:33] between these between the sidewalk and
city street
[42:36] we have utilities there um a lot of
times trees will
[42:40] at some point they will get to a height
that interferes with our with our power
[42:43] lines
um they can bring down poles in a storm
[42:47] and
lines um likewise you know if we end up
[42:51] with issues with our
uh with sidewalks they can bust up
[42:55] sidewalks
that soak in trees on the other side but
[42:58] but they as well a lot of times we'll
get into our sewer lines
[43:01] um and cause challenging situations with
regard to our sewers
[43:07] because they'll find any little any
little bit of water and
[43:11] work their way inside that sewer line if
there's a minuscule crack
[43:16] so that would be my biggest concern
would just be
[43:19] trying to make sure that we
minimize or eliminate trees within the
[43:26] within the right-of-way uh certainly
you know would love to see more as many
[43:32] trees as possible in town but
when we get in that area that makes it
[43:37] challenging for our utilities
as well as for future utility growth uh
[43:41] you know if we need to build a new line
when we have to take out trees that
[43:46] not only is more more resources to do
with regard to taking trees down it also
[43:53] upsets people because they could have a
60 year old tree that's been there and
[44:00] they don't like it when we come in to
tuck their tree down just because we
[44:04] want to put on a new water line
mr weiner on 13-404
[44:12] planting procedures the third the third
line
[44:16] all the way to the end you just have a
little where it says plan
[44:20] and then a space yeah
yeah i figured you already caught that
[44:25] but i thought i would let you know
thank you
[44:33] if i recall like gosh i don't know
what's way back 25
[44:37] 30 years ago i thought they had a tree
that's been a tree advisory board i
[44:42] thought they purchased trees and sold
sold trees but i was thinking that those
[44:46] trees had to be
the way i recall it that they had to be
[44:50] planted in the easement which
never made much sense to me that that's
[44:55] just a future headache but
that that's the way i recall that that
[44:59] thing worked that they could purchase
trees i think somewhat cheaper but they
[45:04] had to be
planted in the easement the way the way
[45:06] i remember now this is way back
so i don't know but
[45:12] if it was like that i always that's what
my interpretation of it was and i always
[45:15] thought boy that's a
bad plan for 10 20 years down the road
[45:21] yeah i i certainly am a fan of trees but
just not in the easement
[45:28] and you know it is nice say on the you
know fourth avenue
[45:32] um there in the median you know having
some trees
[45:36] but you know trying to make sure we have
the right type of trees in those
[45:39] situations that our
roots are going to go down and not
[45:43] spread out
uh you know as well as you know trees
[45:46] that aren't necessarily going to become
incredibly massive uh we don't want
[45:52] roots tearing up streets
and curb and gutter and everything so
[45:57] you know the right type of trees if we
are going to plant have things planted
[46:01] in
in between sidewalks um
[46:06] it's it's important that the trees
conform to kind of what our
[46:09] what our goals are
because who right now is in charge of
[46:17] the planting and pruning and removal of
trees
[46:22] so if there
we don't really have any type of process
[46:27] if somebody wants to plant a new tree
there is no tree permit
[46:30] that you have to come into and get a
permit for a
[46:35] you know a tree that you want to plant
[46:40] we in terms of removal of trees if it's
a situation to where somebody
[46:46] has a tree on uh in between the easement
uh or in the in the easement in the
[46:52] right-of-way and they
want it gone in most cases they want the
[46:57] city to come take care of it
and if it is dead dying causing problems
[47:03] etc
in most cases we will go ahead and do
[47:06] that
and in some cases if if we notice it
[47:11] even if the property owner
hasn't said anything about it but it it
[47:15] is dead and dying
um and we'll go ahead and take it out
[47:18] because at some point that's going to
come down and
[47:21] it's better to come down controlled then
come down
[47:24] in a storm when we've got a whole bunch
of mess to clean up or
[47:27] [Music]
you know on top of somebody's car or
[47:31] into a house or whatnot so
so we do try to be proactive in that
[47:35] regard but
in general that's at the discretion of
[47:39] the of the public works director
um or the or the streets foreign
[47:44] in the absence of the public works
director here for the past couple years
[47:47] uh kind of left those decisions to
former west stein but you know they're
[47:54] certainly
uh jason's a lot more knowledgeable as
[47:57] well as
phil phil uh phil burris our our parks
[48:00] direct director has
some experience with regard to um
[48:05] to arborist uh situations a lot more
knowledgeable than i am
[48:10] so uh kind of rely on staff to
assist in making those determinations of
[48:16] is this tree healthy or is this tree one
that
[48:20] realistically needs to go
[48:24] i noticed that it says the city forester
shall be appointed by the city manager
[48:30] so um i guess
according to this your job would be to
[48:36] try to figure out who you want to be
your city forester and let um
[48:39] i don't know designate them just for
the sake of this article unless you want
[48:45] it changed
so
[48:50] you know i guess the way i've been doing
it thus far has been
[48:54] i haven't really appointed anybody to
that role officially so it's just
[48:58] like last year it was myself so
um like we like it is phrased in some
[49:05] other
chapters um in this one it might
[49:09] be good to say the city manager or his
designee
[49:13] shall be the the the city forester
and you know in a lot of other cases
[49:20] it i've clearly defined already hey this
person is doing this
[49:24] job even though it says city manager or
designee this is a situation where it's
[49:28] a little bit the opposite where
i don't really have anybody to do this
[49:32] specific job so i've kind of
taken it on in the rare instance that
[49:36] we've had it
but i've relied on advice from from
[49:40] staff
as appropriate so at some point if we
[49:44] have somebody that feel like hey that
person is
[49:50] is a trained arborist or knows a heck of
a lot about trees you know probably
[49:54] appoint that person city forester but
um at this point i either don't have
[49:59] that person
that would be willing or has the time or
[50:03] they haven't
made themselves known to me because they
[50:07] may want to avoid the city forester
role
[50:17] well i think it shall be appointed by
the by the city manager or
[50:21] designee that ought to take care of it
on a case-by-case basis and
[50:25] and it can get accomplished
[50:29] yeah so having like the city forester or
doesn't mean she'll be appointed by the
[50:33] city manager
[50:36] or his designee
[50:39] i think would take care of it on the
probably the rare case that's needed
[50:44] okay yeah i agree
[51:05] okay so did anyone have anything else on
[51:10] 13-5
[51:17] no but we don't we don't have a street
tree permit per se
[51:24] um no not at least that we have permits
for about everything else but
[51:29] not that i've came across um that's not
to say that
[51:34] we couldn't make one and and start
requiring that if
[51:37] if that would be something that the
commission would like to see um
[51:41] you know my personal preference would be
if if you want to allow
[51:45] uh trees within the easement
you know i here it says no tree shall be
[51:53] planted where the clear space between
the urban side was less than 10 feet
[51:56] um if it's a situation to where
say the curb and sidewalk are 20 feet
[52:02] apart
in that case technically a tree would be
[52:05] allowed there
[Music]
[52:08] in that instance i think it might be
beneficial to have a permit
[52:12] process to say okay we'll allow it
you know code allows it but we want to
[52:18] have a permit process so that way we can
help you
[52:21] allocate where that tree is going to go
um
[52:24] and make sure that you know well we have
utilities
[52:28] you know here and so we want your tree
to be
[52:31] set back at least far enough that it's
not gonna we don't anticipate it being
[52:34] an issue
here you know a previous community i was
[52:38] with
people ended up planting a whole row
[52:41] of bradford pear trees in conjunction
with some cedar trees
[52:46] right underneath our power lines and
that wasn't an issue for 10 years
[52:55] then we had to come in and lop off the
top
[52:59] of all these cedar trees because they
were getting into our power lines and
[53:03] we upset those people and you know i
i would rather avoid that scenario if we
[53:09] could
i guess one thing it would do would be
[53:13] maybe give them some guidance
on the types of trees if you put a
[53:19] say a weeping willow 10 feet from the
street
[53:23] it's not going to be that far down the
road before that tree is going to be all
[53:26] over the
all over on the street
[53:39] so i say we don't have a permit but
um you know given that
[53:46] these planting procedures called for
certain things
[53:49] um you know i
when we had this scenario last year i
[53:55] made a permit
um that was if i recall correctly i
[54:00] think just on a sheet of paper you know
we didn't have any kind of formal
[54:02] documents so i said well
this is the the street tree permit
[54:07] but um you know we certainly could make
something a little more formalized if
[54:12] um you know we want to try and do this a
little more frequently
[54:17] and if there was a desire to say all
right
[54:20] within these parameters say a permit
will be required
[54:25] uh i do think that that would be
beneficial
[54:29] as you said to at least try to help
provide some guidance on
[54:34] you know what trees to utilize as well
as you know where might be the best
[54:37] place to put those
we're in the uh creative mode
[54:43] uh of late and so i think we could
probably whip one of them up pretty
[54:47] quickly
if we had to travis has been creating
[54:52] stuff all day
really
[54:58] all right that sounds that sounds great
so then if um
[55:02] travis is interested in creating that
for the city then i guess we can leave
[55:06] it in the code
[55:10] very well
[55:15] okay is that all 413-5
uh the only thing that city attorney saw
[55:21] lander mentioned when
i went over this section of code with
[55:24] him was um
that he recommended looking at both
[55:28] prairie village and lenexa's tree
policies i thought they were pretty
[55:33] pretty
good policies i haven't had a chance to
[55:36] look at those yet
but i'll try to look at those as well
[55:38] and if i see anything that
looks to be beneficial i'll try to bring
[55:44] that back for your
your consideration okay
[55:48] that sounds good thank you
[55:52] okay we'll go ahead and move on to 13-6
[56:05] um the only thing i've seen in 13-405
uh third sentence last word
[56:14] whatever that word is is it spelled
right
[56:22] the deleterious or whatever
is that right i don't even know where it
[56:28] is
well i think that is what it's supposed
[56:35] to be
because it's also there in the uh
[56:39] a couple words previous to that
[56:46] charge of gas or other substance
deleterious tree line
[56:50] but yeah we can
get that addressed and certainly we can
[56:56] use a
probably try to find a synonym for that
[56:59] that's a little bit clearer to the to
the layman
[57:02] because i don't think many people are
going to understand what deleterious
[57:05] means
i don't
[57:14] harmful
[57:19] there you go that's a lot better
i didn't have anything else marked here
[57:28] so long as this
all is something that you currently
[57:31] practice
[57:35] yeah the biggest thing uh that we run
into currently
[57:39] is really the the tree trimming i'm
trying to make sure that people keep
[57:43] their trees trimmed back
in a lot of cases they don't and so
[57:48] you know that's a situation to where
we'll come in and we'll take care of it
[57:54] uh and then we run into
challenges at times we are in the
[57:59] process of
trying to make sure we notify people
[58:02] that hey
in this situation because it's been
[58:06] allowed to grow like this for so long
we'll take care of it this time but from
[58:11] this point forward we're gonna expect
you to maintain the tree and keep it
[58:16] trimmed back from um from becoming an
issue if it becomes an issue again in
[58:20] the future
then you're going to have to take care
[58:22] of it or you know we'll take care of it
and bill you for it
[58:26] but you know we're trying to work with
people and
[58:29] at least get it into compliance
initially and then moving
[58:33] moving from that point forward i do
think that
[58:38] in section 13-407
uh second to the last line the section
[58:44] within five days
five days is pretty pretty short notice
[58:50] to get things done especially if you got
to hire somebody
[58:53] to get it accomplished in five days is
probably nearly impossible
[59:02] so do you think 10 is more reasonable i
sure think it would be a lot better
[59:07] okay okay that sounds good jody does
that sound good with you
[59:14] yeah i was just trying to think of a
happy compromise if we left it at
[59:18] five but i was able to show you in good
faith that i had somebody coming out
[59:24] with you know i already had an
appointment with somebody that would
[59:27] come out and help me
would you want to leave it at the five
[59:30] so you're not going back and forth with
five days ten days
[59:34] eight days but it's five day at least in
five days
[59:38] in good faith i've made contact with
somebody
[59:41] that will take care of the problem i
don't know if that's how floor if that
[59:44] hurts it so in most cases what we
currently do and grant we haven't had a
[59:51] lot of these issues with with tree
trimming
[59:53] uh this point but similar scenarios with
weeds notices or
[59:57] you know nuisance violations etc uh if
somebody has
[1:00:01] you know we we've provided notice we
give them 10 days in most cases
[1:00:05] and they call us and say hey i need a
little bit of extra time
[1:00:09] i've got my uncle coming you know next
weekend
[1:00:12] you know so i need 15 days instead of 10
because you know my leg is broken i
[1:00:17] can't move my yard or whatever the case
we're willing to work with people as
[1:00:20] long as they communicate with us and
they
[1:00:23] you know we know that they're working on
it so you know
[1:00:26] we do try to be flexible and work with
people but
[1:00:29] you know in in the cases in which we
give notice and don't
[1:00:33] hear anything at all then it's okay we
go in on the 11th day or as soon as we
[1:00:38] can thereafter and take care of it
and you know if you're not going to
[1:00:43] communicate with us let us know
you're going to you're that you're
[1:00:46] actively working on it that's when
it really is a hard deadline and um
[1:00:51] and certainly if you know somebody it's
a situation to where they abuse it
[1:00:55] and it's happens consistently that um
they ask for an extension we give them
[1:01:01] an extension and it still doesn't get
done
[1:01:03] then it's okay the next time it happens
i'm sorry
[1:01:07] it's ten days because you know we worked
with you the last three times
[1:01:11] and in none of those cases did you ever
get it accomplished we had to do it in
[1:01:16] every case
so
[1:01:20] are most of those cases ten days then
rather than the five
[1:01:24] ten days is the more customary number
yes
[1:01:27] okay and then maybe it's not a bad idea
to change it to ten
[1:01:35] that would be more consistent
[1:01:47] are there any other comments between
both 13-6
[1:01:51] and 13-7
[1:01:57] um on 13-408
and i don't know i just got marked under
[1:02:04] the last sentence or upon any private
grounds
[1:02:14] that was right away public park or upon
any private grounds
[1:02:31] you know i don't know there definitely
needs to be some
[1:02:35] some notice given i mean i think just to
trump on somebody's
[1:02:38] property and start whacking up their
trees uh
[1:02:42] better tread lightly
[1:02:47] so the way the way that i understand it
is um they would have noticed so like in
[1:02:51] the trimming
instance since that's um where an
[1:02:54] authorization is made for it it
gives that person notice of 10 days now
[1:02:59] that we just changed it
but it seems as though there should be
[1:03:02] notice um
[Music]
[1:03:04] to the person of any violation before
the city forester will go in and
[1:03:09] actually
start cutting things i mean the only
[1:03:13] thing i can think of if it's private
grounds would be if it is violating
[1:03:16] something like it trees are growing into
electric lines
[1:03:19] at least that's the way i read it chris
is that kind of how you understand it
[1:03:23] yeah it just needs to
[1:03:27] stay out of city utilities essentially
and i do think there's provisions in
[1:03:31] there
uh for you know if it's got uh the
[1:03:35] what is it the ash borer you know the
the various tree funguses
[1:03:39] or um insects that can be infectious
and kill a whole swath of you know a
[1:03:45] whole community of trees
um that at that point the city forester
[1:03:49] could say hey this
even though it's on private property
[1:03:52] this tree needs to go or else
you know the entire the entire town's
[1:03:56] trees could all die
so we're gonna basically kill this tree
[1:04:00] quarantine it because you know we're
trying to get rid of the
[1:04:03] virus before it spreads
well maybe you could just put a mask
[1:04:17] 13-408 it needs to be i think something
needs to be spelled out in there that
[1:04:23] that notice be given to the the property
owner
[1:04:28] so we don't just wheel in there and and
do something and they're just completely
[1:04:32] shocked that their tree got removed you
know up by their house or something
[1:04:43] or upon any private grounds it's
i think that next that next section
[1:04:50] there as authorized
we're not going to go upon private
[1:04:54] grounds to
to do anything unless it's authorized by
[1:04:59] the article
and the and the article authorizes what
[1:05:03] areas we have that authority to
um to do any kind of removal or trimming
[1:05:09] etc so we already should have provided
notice and whatnot due to the provisions
[1:05:18] required in that in those other and
those other sections
[1:05:27] which would basically be the east
[1:05:32] well in
oh it also says uh
[1:05:39] every owner of any tree overhanging any
street or right of way within the city
[1:05:43] shall trim the branches so that such
branches should not obstruct the light
[1:05:46] and so forth so even if that tree is not
within the easement
[1:05:50] even if it's on their side of the
sidewalk
[1:05:54] they're still required to keep the
branches trimmed
[1:05:57] so as not to obstruct the light or
obstruct the view of an intersection
[1:06:00] etc a weeping willow you know if it's a
massive weeping willow and
[1:06:05] and stretches a long ways uh
you know sidewalks only let's say eight
[1:06:11] foot from the curb
and whipping willows right there that
[1:06:14] weeping willow can can droop down
into the street and that's not allowed
[1:06:19] it has to be
a foot above the surface of the street
[1:06:24] and so we could come in there even
though that weeping willow is a private
[1:06:28] tree
but it is overhanging the city street
[1:06:32] city right-of-way
and it is out of compliance if it is
[1:06:36] less than eight
eight feet uh above the street surface
[1:06:39] so we could come in there and trim
that if they don't take care of it
[1:06:43] themselves they should take care of it
themselves
[1:06:46] that would come in 10 days notice so
they would be notified
[1:06:50] yes so that's what you just changed
currently it's five but
[1:06:54] you're saying we would have to provide
10 days notice if we wanted to
[1:06:59] to go in there and take care of it
ourselves because the private property
[1:07:02] owner hasn't
good enough as long as they get notified
[1:07:09] and and get a chance to protest it or
comply with it
[1:07:14] yep okay was there anything else over
these two pages
[1:07:22] nope okay then we'll go ahead and move
on to 13-8 article 5
[1:07:28] numbering of buildings
does anyone have any
[1:07:35] questions or comments on this section
[1:07:46] i did not okay
[1:07:53] okay um then we'll go ahead and go to i
didn't either so
[1:07:56] uh commissioner cole did you have
anything on this i didn't
[1:07:59] thanks okay yeah all right so article 6
street lighting
[1:08:03] [Music]
this first page 13-9
[1:08:11] i didn't have anything marked on this
page yeah i did not either
[1:08:16] commissioner call i don't have anything
marked i didn't know if there was
[1:08:22] anything on the city side that they
is there anything on that page that
[1:08:26] concerns them
[1:08:30] i don't have any concerns on this on
this page
[1:08:33] okay all right then uh 13-10
is the section continued i'm assuming
[1:08:40] everyone's probably okay with this
as well i am
[1:08:45] okay
[1:08:49] my only thought would just be um
might look to on whereas f says
[1:08:57] of not less than 250 feet in residential
areas and
[1:09:01] trying to increase street lighting um
to try and you know improve the
[1:09:07] the lighting of our streets uh you might
also
[1:09:10] consider the same type of thing for e um
you know
[1:09:14] f sets a minimum we might also want to
try to set a minimum
[1:09:18] for um for some of these
for for some lighting i know you know
[1:09:23] personally
i feel like a lot of our street lights
[1:09:26] are
a little bit dark especially in some of
[1:09:30] our
more well-traveled areas you know
[1:09:32] downtown maple street
you know you go to some other
[1:09:36] communities and it just
feels a lot more well-lit um and
[1:09:40] especially in the commercial areas and
even in the
[1:09:42] residential areas i still feel like it's
you know i have a street light right i
[1:09:47] have a street light in my yard
and i still feel like that's that's not
[1:09:52] very bright
um you know i would look to rather than
[1:09:55] being
a strict 9 500 lumens or 25 000 lumens
[1:09:59] you know maybe we set that as a minimum
and you know if we have an opportunity
[1:10:03] to say hey let's
uh improve the uh
[1:10:07] the lighting along maple street or
downtown district you know
[1:10:11] as we go i wouldn't necessarily try to
swap them all out
[1:10:14] you know at once but you know as a bulb
goes out maybe we
[1:10:18] instead of 25 000 lumens we make it you
know 27.5 or something downtown
[1:10:25] i think that's a good idea i think that
it should be a minimum as opposed to
[1:10:28] just the standard
[1:10:33] sounds good to me
okay uh so we will go ahead and move on
[1:10:47] to 13-11
article seven police agreements
[1:10:52] since we were just um dealing with the
police agreement
[1:10:56] our i'm assuming that most of this
probably looks good chris or you would
[1:11:00] have had a chance to look at that then
do you know anything that needs to be
[1:11:04] changed based on
our recent conversations no other than
[1:11:09] you know there are some words that have
hyphens in them
[1:11:12] that aren't necessary but um i did speak
with terry about it and he felt like
[1:11:18] this whole article article seven isn't
needed
[1:11:22] um but that it doesn't hurt to leave it
in so it's really up to
[1:11:26] the commission whether you want to keep
it in the code or
[1:11:29] or remove it we do have the the police
agreements that we do individually with
[1:11:34] the the various companies that we have
these agreements with
[1:11:37] so if you decide to remove it you know
all those will stay in effect
[1:11:41] and if we do future ones we'll similarly
do those agreements with them as well so
[1:11:47] leaving it in the code doesn't hurt us
but it also
[1:11:50] doesn't really serve much of a purpose
so this uh
[1:11:54] right now it doesn't guide and direct
your police agreements at all
[1:11:59] so we essentially i mean
if you wanted to leave it in to try to
[1:12:04] make sure that they were all
uniform or had the same provisions we
[1:12:10] could certainly do that to try to make
sure hey
[1:12:12] that way they're all uniform um but
to be frank what we do is we take uh the
[1:12:20] standard standard police agreement that
we already have and we essentially
[1:12:24] you know change the names of hey this
one is quickcom
[1:12:27] and this is our agreement and it's you
know
[1:12:31] currently three dollars a a year per
poll and and
[1:12:34] terry and i are working on obviously
trying to get that increased but
[1:12:37] um but the
the agreements are all basically just a
[1:12:42] template that we utilize and so in the
event that we have
[1:12:46] um future agreements that come come by
it'll just follow that same template
[1:12:51] would be the idea right
when i'm looking at this right now it
[1:12:56] looks like it i mean it specifies a lot
of things you know like
[1:12:59] people can't just connect whatever they
want to your polls i mean it seems like
[1:13:03] it
i don't know would be prudent to keep it
[1:13:07] based on it not just being about the
agreement itself but
[1:13:12] it has a little bit more than just that
and i i don't know if that's addressed
[1:13:16] somewhere else or
why he would think it's not necessary so
[1:13:20] i do believe
it was on well was it
[1:13:25] in
[1:13:28] 13-706 seems like something that should
be in there
[1:13:34] yeah and i was thinking that we had
another section here that addressed
[1:13:38] that in particular um in terms of poll
attachments that were
[1:13:44] not approved type situations
that might be in utilities but um but
[1:13:49] anyways i i can
verify that and then let you know um and
[1:13:55] like i said there's no harm in leaving
it in certainly so if you
[1:13:59] just want to continue to leave it in
that's perfectly fine
[1:14:02] i'm just thinking if someone connects
something to one of your polls
[1:14:05] isn't this where you'd get the
enforcement to say um that's against our
[1:14:09] code
it certainly does give us that i was
[1:14:12] thinking that there's another area
of code that is duplicative of that but
[1:14:16] uh
if i'll all look for that and if i find
[1:14:21] that then we can address that
as well okay that sounds good
[1:14:26] i think so too i think we should leave
it until we find it
[1:14:29] either in a place because i i think it
does
[1:14:32] i have a lot of specifics that would be
helpful
[1:14:39] that sounds good in that that brings us
to the end since you had mentioned the
[1:14:44] hyphens
uh that are misplaced i mean you also
[1:14:47] notice the 13-12 one
at the very top but yeah so i guess
[1:14:52] we'll just uh wait to hear
if um this is addressed elsewhere and
[1:14:57] with that we have finished the section
so does anyone have any other comments
[1:15:02] or questions over the streets and
sidewalks section
[1:15:05] before we go to our second citizens to
be heard
[1:15:11] i do not okay i don't have any questions
uh is there a plan or a date
[1:15:18] to go forward with the traffic
[1:15:23] i didn't know if we talked about that or
is that something we can talk about it
[1:15:26] tomorrow night
as well but just to kind of know and
[1:15:29] advance what we're going to be covering
so i can review it again i've read
[1:15:33] through it but
i would think that whenever um yeah i
[1:15:38] don't i don't know if we will get one
and
[1:15:39] i mean before the end of the year at
least for me to be involved so
[1:15:42] i mean if we do want to try that that's
fine with me but it would be just that
[1:15:46] one section
the traffic section
[1:15:52] um but yeah we can discuss it tomorrow
if you all think that you have any days
[1:15:55] we can just
see if we do before the end of the year
[1:15:58] and then you'll have to take over
[1:16:03] dumping cody's yeah
well at least we've done you know a good
[1:16:10] portion of the work
so that's right no one could have
[1:16:14] predicted there would have been
uh well that coveted would have happened
[1:16:18] the year 2020 would have happened this
way
[1:16:20] yeah i know i do
i'm sorry no go ahead chris i was gonna
[1:16:26] say i do appreciate uh all of your
efforts to
[1:16:30] uh to go through this this has been a
heck of a lot of work and
[1:16:34] certainly especially here in the last
few months we put a lot of meetings and
[1:16:38] a lot of time into
into moving further on this so i i do
[1:16:42] appreciate all of your efforts and
and getting us to where we're at so
[1:16:47] thank you very much
not a problem it's something i rather
[1:16:51] enjoy i still have everything that we
have yet
[1:16:54] to come noted so if you need any help
i'd be more than happy to attend
[1:16:59] the meetings whenever you do discuss it
we welcome you to do that
[1:17:04] yeah so all right um
without any other comments here are
[1:17:09] there any citizens who
would like to be heard
[1:17:14] all right seen that okay good then
saying none i will go ahead and make a
[1:17:18] motion to adjourned right here a second
oh second all right it's been moved and
[1:17:23] seconded all in favor say aye
aye aye all right
[1:17:28] thank you so