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like to call this meeting to order of
the Geneva Historic Preservation

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Commission for Tuesday, August 18th,
2026.

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Can you call the role?
>> Zelmer

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» here.
>> Tobler

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» here.
>> Jensen

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McManis
>> here.

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» Phillips
>> here. Reie Solomon.

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» Okay, we do have a quorum. So, we'll
start with the five minute field guide.

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» Oh, I'm sorry. Approval of minutes.
>> Jeez, I'm out of practice.

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Uh, approval of the story uh the meeting
minutes for July 21st. Uh, can I get a

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motion to approve?
>> Motion to approve.

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» Second.
>> Okay. Call the RO. Zelmer

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» abstain.
>> Tobler

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» I
>> uh Mcmanis

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» I
>> Phillips

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» I
>> motion passes. Okay now we can go right

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to the fiveminute field guide.
>> Okay

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» take it away Emma.
>> Thank you. So today's fiveminute field

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guide we're going to zoom in. I've
actually done this I think four or five

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times this month so it's been top of
mind for me. And we're going to zoom in

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on looking at dating and researching
based on hardware inside of a home or a

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commercial building [clears throat] too,
but I've been doing it mostly at homes.

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So, first we can talk about hardware.
So, nails and screws and those types of

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fasteners.
Um, and there are lots of ways that

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fasteners like this can help us state.
For example, handdrawn nails are usually

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a sign that you're looking at pre-800
construction. You can see that on the

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far left of this nice little chart here.
Um, and wire nails really came in to

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being around 1900. So, when you're
looking at the nails physically holding

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your building together, sometimes you
can see by what type they were about

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when those nails were put into the
building. So, this can either mean

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that's when it was originally
constructed or if there were additions

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when those additions were slowly added
on. You'll see a lot of properties that

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have multiple different kinds of nails
or screws. That typically means

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additions and things changed over time.
Um, you can also look at patas and

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things with fasteners like this. So, the
metal material might either change color

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itself or it might change things like
the wood or stone around it. That can

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often be a sign that it's been there for
a while. If there's no patina or

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staining, that could be a sign that uh
that was a replica fastener and was put

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in later. It could also mean nothing,
but it's something to keep in mind and

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keep an eye on.
There was uh

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nails and screws were a lot harder to
make. This might surprise you when they

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were hand wrought or weren't as easily
machine-made. There is a fun little myth

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that people would burn their properties
down and go through the ashes for the

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nails and screws to reuse and do that on
purpose.

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It's not really probably true that they
were purposely building burnings down

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when they were moving just to get nails
and screws, but it is probably true that

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nails and screws get would get reused a
lot. So, that's sort of an interesting

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trend to also keep an eye on when you're
doing analysis like this, just to

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understand, you know, this might be from
a pre- 1800 building, but it might even

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be from earlier and it was reused
because they only had so many hand rot

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nails.
You can also look at sort of the

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production type and production formats
of different hardes. This example

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specifically are uh row iron latch bars
and locks from the older slide convent

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down in New Orleans. That dates to 1752.
So that's well before cast iron, which

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is the other type of iron, which we'll
actually be seeing tonight. Uh really

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got came popular in New Orleans. Cast
iron really became popular around 1850.

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So when you're looking at a property
like this, if we didn't know that it was

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built in 1752, which we do because this
is a pretty notable building, we could

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at least say, okay, this is rod iron,
not cast. It's probably from before

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1850. It's also useful to know those
types of production methods when you're

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looking to replace things. In the case
of this building, you can see on the

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left, they keep a lot of their old
hardware up in the attic. That's like

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their hardware room where you can kind
of dig through and find replacements for

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anything you might need. That's not
really common. That's a very lucky thing

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for that building to have
>> the the convent.

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» Oh, okay.
>> So, um yeah, the convent stores like

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that's all of their matching to the
hardware that they have. Um so, they

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it's good to know that for when you are
looking to replace things so that you

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can look in the right places to replace
when you don't have a handy dandy attic

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that's 200 years old full of everything
you might ever need.

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And then this is really what I've been
doing. Like I said, I've done this a

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couple times this month, so it's been
top of mind. A lot of hardware,

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especially as you got further into the
late 1800s and then basically on has

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been mass- prodduced over time, and a
lot of that comes out of cataloges,

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which I'm sure you've all seen some
things of or heard of like a Sears

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catalog, a Sears catalog house. You
could also buy your hardware from a SE a

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catalog of all different brands. This is
a trick that I use pretty frequently to

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date hardware, both to date the houses
themselves and to look at if it's

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possible to replace hardware in kind or
just to know more about sort of the

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people that were living in a property.
This uh house specifically is Piner

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Mansion or the Martin Mitchell mansion
in Neighborville. You might have seen it

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before. It's a neighbor settlement and
it's sort of a Victorian eclectic

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property with some Italian 8 uh and
Queen Anne influences. And we also know

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the family was really into the exoticism
trend that was going on at the time of

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its construction, which was 1883. And
you can kind of see that in these hinges

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and uh doorork knobs. This is their
front door that they use. They're sort

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of pulling in some of those more uh
trendy at the time exoticism imagery

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into even just the very detailed
hardware of their property. So, if I

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didn't know what date this house was
produced, I could look at the style and

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generally judge it as mid 1800s, early
1900s, and then I could start zooming in

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on the details like this hardware. And
what I've been doing this month a lot is

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pulling it into this handy dandy thing
called reverse image Google searching.

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Uh, so this is me pulling it right into
that on Google. You can see down at the

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bottom there's an AI mode, all answers,
exact matches, visual matches. I tend to

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avoid the AI mode, especially right now.
It can kind of pull from a lot of

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different things and it doesn't always
notice the exact details of specific

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hardware like this just because that's a
very sort of small thing for it to look

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at and it is tending right now to look
more generally at things. So I what I do

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is actually go to the visual matches tab
and start using my human eyes that

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notice the exact details that I need to
look through and find something that's

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similar.
Places that I tend to look for are sort

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of reuse sites, eBay, auction sites,
that type of thing. And it's really me

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taking advantage of the fact that I
don't have every catalog ever memorized

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quite yet. I don't even really have
every catalog that was commonly used in

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Geneva quite yet. But, uh, it does
start, you start seeing repeats as you

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go through town. So, I know that other
people have a lot more experience with

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this. And I know that if I go on these
auction sites, I can frequently find

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repeats because they were mass-produced.
So, in this case, on that top left, I

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saw that that was an exact match up in
Urban Remain Chicago. and I was able to

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click into it and find that in its
description it mentioned that it was

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made by the Brford Lock Works. Now, the
one thing I do know is where to find all

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of these different cataloges because
there's a couple different options that

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I'll show you in a minute um where they
might be. So, I went to my databases,

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found some of the Brford Lock Works
cataloges that we still have existing

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and which are digitized today for free,
which is very nice, and scanned through

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and found the exact doorork knob and
hinges that I was looking for. This

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specific catalog was published in 1881.
It was pretty typical that they would

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sell the same things year after year, or
at least for a couple years. So, there's

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sort of a range there. And 1881 is
actually really close to that 1883

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construction date. So now I have the
date construction date of the house

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narrowed down to within two years of its
actual construction date just from

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looking up these hinges and doorork
knobs and spending some time going

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through cataloges and finding what other
people have also been able to discover.

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So the things that I really pay
attention to when I'm doing research

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like this is that I'm looking at
regional trends. I know the exoticism

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was huge around here. I know about when
the Queen Anne and the Italian a sale

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started coming in and out of style
around here. I also know, for example,

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for the New Orleans site that cast iron
came into style in the 1850s. In a lot

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of other places in the US, that came
into style a little bit earlier. So,

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that helps date things in that way, too.
I also make sure I'm using reliable

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sources. My goal is always to get to the
primary source. So that's the catalog,

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not a second or third tertiary source
like those eBay sites that just kind of

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say what they think it is. I like to
find exactly where things came from. I

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think that's very important when you're
trying to date things this specifically.

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And then also just using all the clues
you have. So starting with that style

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and sometimes you can even go into that
search bar

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up here and add to your search, you
know, 1850s to 1950s somewhere in the

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state. I know this house was
constructed. and that'll help narrow

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down your searches and make it easier to
go through the different listings.

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So, in conclusion, I mentioned I have
some of those databases that you might

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be able to find. So, this up on the top
right is one of those cataloges, just a

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cover page of what a lot of them looked
like. And then a couple databases that

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are very useful. The building technology
heritage library I've had the most

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success with that's stored on the
internet archive. It's all completely

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digitized. Smithsonian Libraries and the
Library of Congress are both partially

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digitized, but they both have decent
sets of cataloges and things. Uh,

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usually it'll be called something like a
trade literature collection, something

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with that name. The um AIC wiki up there
can be very helpful for giving summaries

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of things like different types of nails
and less specific things. They might not

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have cataloges, but they have good
summaries of how things were constructed

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and where those things were used.
And that's really all I've got for

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today. Any questions?
>> Just a quick little research trick.

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» How long did it take you to find those
knobs and hinges?

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» This one?
Probably half an hour to 45 minutes, but

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I've gotten really quick at flipping
through cataloges. When you first start

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out, it takes a little bit longer to be
like, "That's not it. That's not it.

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That's not it." I'm now where I can sort
of pick out. For this one, I was like,

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"There's a triangle and there's a half
circle." And I just kept going until I

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found a triangle and a half circle and
that makes it a little faster. So,

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another good trick.
>> Cool. Thank you.

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» Cool.
>> Thank you.

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» And I had a sweets catalog when I
started architecture, [laughter] but

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they're all gone now. There were It was
14 volumes of stuff. So, but

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» that's the big thing. It's sometimes you
spend I was lucky and I clicked on a

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good catalog for this guy like I think
my second try because sometimes you go

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through all 14 volumes it took
>> exactly

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00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:55,360
» okay
[clears throat]

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» thank you
>> so interesting to have those resources

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available to you just sitting you know
at your desk you know and to your point

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you know you used to have these physical
>> physical cataloges and

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» now you can figure things out pretty
quickly not using AI though to your

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point yeah
>> I have a lot of physical builder

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cataloges and things too that I've just
gotten from people because they're going

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to throw them out and I don't like to
see that happen.

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» Yeah.
>> But it's really cool and good to know

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that these digital copies are so
available to us cuz

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» Oh, yeah.
>> It's such a nice resource.

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» It is

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» very good.
>> Okay. Uh next is uh concept reviews

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28 South Fifth Street.
>> Okay. So, we're looking at 28 South

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Fifth Street. Like Paul said, this is a
concept review. It actually hasn't been

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00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:52,880
purchased yet. So, a lot of this is sort
of getting an idea of what would work

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with the potential purchasers uh vision
versus what the HBC really is looking

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for and if that would be a successful,
you know, collaboration.

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So, we're over here on sort of the
westish middle section of the district,

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00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:15,360
right off of Third Street, pretty close
to the commercial area.

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00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:19,600
And just a quick history on the
property. So, it was originally a

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residential property. It was constructed
in 1890 for the Henry Child Hawkins

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00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:27,920
family, but somewhere between 1923 and
1930, we know from Sanborn Fire

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Insurance maps that a rear porch was
added on there. And in 1957, we know a

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garage was constructed from newspaper
records. In 1968, Betty Johnston got a

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00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:44,000
permit for new porches and walks. That's
also from newspaper records. And in

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00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:48,320
1994, we know there was a fire in the
attic when it [clears throat] was owned

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00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:55,600
by Lozen, who at the time was more of a
local politician. And you can see sort

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00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:59,600
of the 1903 newspaper excerpt that the
Henry Charles Hawkins family lived there

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00:13:57,199 --> 00:14:03,440
for a time, but after uh Henry Hawkins
passed, it was rented out for some time

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00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:13,320
by his wife and then remained
residential basically until uh the I

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00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:13,320
believe the 80s around 80s and 90s.

199
00:14:14,079 --> 00:14:21,040
And then just some permanent history
that we do have on file. In 1994 there

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00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:26,000
was that fire so repair for that and a
fence. 99 the property was re-roofed and

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00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:31,040
there were some signs more signs in
2000. 2006 new walk and steps another

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00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:36,959
re-roofing project in 2012 and more
signs in 2014 and 2023. So it's really

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been a commercial property
pretty regularly used as such since

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00:14:39,519 --> 00:14:45,680
then.
and we're looking at potentially turning

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00:14:43,279 --> 00:14:50,320
it into an inn or a bed and breakfast
style property. There's a couple

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00:14:48,399 --> 00:14:54,639
locations where work might be performed
that would really undergo HPC review.

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Excuse me. [clears throat]
Um, one of those is the front porch

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where we know from Sanborn Fire
Insurance maps that a front porch

209
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existed once and no longer does.
Additionally, down on the south kind of

210
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facade there, looking at putting that
porch back on too that we know from

211
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Sandborn environ maps existed and might
have been enclosed at one point. Just

212
00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:19,839
looking at sort of the footprint of the
property. And then also looking at uh

213
00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:23,760
creating an addition between the garage
and the house that's existing in order

214
00:15:22,079 --> 00:15:27,920
to make that garage into an additional
space for the inn for people to stay in.

215
00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:34,720
And then also sort of a welcoming area
into the inn, sort of an atrium space.

216
00:15:32,959 --> 00:15:38,320
So, I included a bunch of existing
conditions photos because I think

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00:15:35,839 --> 00:15:42,720
that'll be a big part of the discussion
today is just looking at what might be

218
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:46,160
possible on the facades that are there.
So, you can see sort of in this

219
00:15:44,399 --> 00:15:50,560
straighton photo where the porch might
have existed. Also, based on the

220
00:15:48,639 --> 00:15:54,800
footprint, it's very possible that that
uh section on the side there that would

221
00:15:52,079 --> 00:15:59,120
be the north facade used to be porch and
was enclosed. Obviously, since the house

222
00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:01,920
hasn't been purchased yet, not total
investigation hasn't been done to

223
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:05,120
actually what's going on physically
inside there. So, just looking at the

224
00:16:03,759 --> 00:16:10,240
outside and the maps and the things that
we do have, that's probably a good

225
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:14,720
guess.
And then just some more photos. So, I

226
00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:20,240
it's been raining a lot. Wasn't able to
get to the um house to take good non-

227
00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:24,240
rainy pictures myself. These were
actually sourced from the 2016 survey.

228
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:28,079
I'm not sure why I put 1999. And then
those previous photos are from the real

229
00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:30,959
estate listing that's online.
And you can kind of see the north side

230
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:35,279
of the property, which is out of view
from the street, but it's good to see to

231
00:16:32,399 --> 00:16:40,320
get an idea of everything. And then more
of those side views and where it might

232
00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:46,639
connect to the garage there.
And then we've had some sort of very

233
00:16:43,199 --> 00:16:51,600
conceptual images submitted so far. I
would note that this porch wraps further

234
00:16:48,959 --> 00:16:57,360
than that historic porch did. I included
those sandborn maps up there for your uh

235
00:16:54,720 --> 00:17:00,399
sort of comparison at the same time. A
lot of these changes that are sort of

236
00:16:58,959 --> 00:17:04,959
happening on this image wouldn't
probably happen on the main properties.

237
00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:08,799
So, just really focusing on the
characters of the porches and the

238
00:17:06,559 --> 00:17:14,640
characters of that style of potential
addition uh and how that might carry

239
00:17:11,199 --> 00:17:18,640
over into the rear as well.
And additionally, one of the other

240
00:17:16,799 --> 00:17:22,559
things that the potential owner is
looking at is replacing a lot of the

241
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:29,600
windows because other than the two attic
windows, they're all fixed right now.

242
00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:34,320
Um, and the potential owner applicant is
looking at, you know, hopefully having

243
00:17:31,919 --> 00:17:40,000
functioning windows. So, what that might
take for discussion as well. And I

244
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:43,077
believe, yep, that's really all we've
got. So Sue, if you want to come up for

245
00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:45,440
discussion [cough]
[clears throat]

246
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:50,120
and just introduce yourself for the
record and then we can

247
00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:50,120
» My name is Sagato.

248
00:17:53,360 --> 00:18:00,559
» I can go to whichever slide we prefer.
If you want to give a little summary of

249
00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:11,280
what you're looking at too, that might
be useful. So, I am hoping to create um

250
00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:17,919
a small inn um five suites and have it
also be, you know, an area, a

251
00:18:13,679 --> 00:18:24,000
destination place that is welcoming, do
tours, do events, and yeah, just have it

252
00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:32,240
be more like a a little quaint little
inn for the town. Mhm.

253
00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:36,880
» So when you say the windows are fixed,
just out of curiosity, it does it mean

254
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:39,919
what do you mean? Is it fixed glass? Is
it a window that's not operating

255
00:18:38,559 --> 00:18:43,840
operable? Is it
>> Yeah. So if you can you can kind of see

256
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:48,880
it in these pictures, but it's confusing
because there's shutters, but they're

257
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:51,919
all single pane glass basically fixed
picture windows right now.

258
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:54,000
» Ah,
they are

259
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:56,160
» other than you can see up top on that
attic,

260
00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,919
» right? But those are functioning,
>> right?

261
00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:02,400
» They've got that
>> there are some double hungs on

262
00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:06,080
» all the way on the second and third
floor.

263
00:19:02,799 --> 00:19:13,919
» Yeah. [clears throat]
But the first floor are all

264
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:20,160
if they've already been replaced,
which it sounds like they probably have,

265
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:25,360
I don't think the windows that are that
have already been replaced would not be

266
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:29,840
a problem to replace them. They go back
to an operable window. Mhm.

267
00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:32,160
» I think
>> Yeah, because you're saying that they

268
00:19:31,039 --> 00:19:36,000
were probably would have been operable
in the first place and then someone

269
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:41,440
» It depends on the location and whether
they're original or not, I guess.

270
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:45,520
» I mean, I guess maybe it's a question
for you, Emily. The house was built in

271
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:50,960
1890.
Is that correct? I mean, were they even

272
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:56,480
capable of making sheets of glass for
windows that size at that time?

273
00:19:54,080 --> 00:20:00,720
» It would have been very expensive. So
really the main place that they would

274
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:07,200
have been even considering a picture
window might have been in that little

275
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:11,760
bump out there that um
on the bottom left.

276
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:15,360
But realistically a lot of them would
have been functioning more because they

277
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:20,640
would not have had a lot of other good
climate control solutions and it might

278
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:23,440
not have been as hot as it gets today
but it still would have gotten pretty

279
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:28,799
hot and they would have wanted to be
able to open their windows. So typically

280
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:34,640
would you think they'd be double hung
with would they have typically been one

281
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:40,159
over one or you know four over one or
would there be muttons typically in the

282
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:44,480
windows like that at that time?
>> Um there could have been there could

283
00:20:42,559 --> 00:20:48,720
have not been it. A lot of that depended
on what the owner could afford and what

284
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:51,600
the owner kind of preferred when they
were constructing it. I would say almost

285
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:57,614
for sure they would have been double
hung for sure for um that specific

286
00:20:55,120 --> 00:21:00,480
detail. The muttons might
[clears throat and cough]

287
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:03,840
take a little bit more research to prove
without putting in sort of

288
00:21:01,919 --> 00:21:08,480
unsubstantiated
uh details to the property. We are

289
00:21:06,559 --> 00:21:13,120
looking at getting in contact with the
history museum I believe um to get some

290
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:16,960
historic photographs as well which might
be able to show some of those details

291
00:21:14,799 --> 00:21:20,799
but yeah double hung would be very very
likely especially like on that second

292
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:25,280
floor front facade there would have been
no reason to spend all that money to get

293
00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:28,799
picture windows that you couldn't even
breathe out of during the summertime.

294
00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:32,720
» Right. Well, I'm assuming since it's
been a business since 1994 at least,

295
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:36,480
it's probably been replaced. And that's
what they, like you said, probably the

296
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:39,280
cheapest option they probably put around
there for the business cuz they weren't

297
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:43,120
going to open up windows.
>> That's kind of the thought that I've

298
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:46,159
been having. And then if the property uh
if you did end up going through and

299
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:49,039
purchasing the property, really the
easiest way to do that would be just for

300
00:21:47,679 --> 00:21:51,919
me to go visit, and we've talked about
this, and look at all the windows and

301
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:54,000
photograph them and
>> Yeah.

302
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:58,799
» see what I can see.
>> Yeah. And if you were to replace them,

303
00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:03,360
part of what we would look for is a
window survey to see when they were

304
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:08,480
built, what a good idea when they were
built and, you know, if they were, you

305
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:13,595
know, if they're operable or what shape
they're in, too. So,

306
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:18,480
» absolutely. Um, and then with that,
[clears throat] because if you do have I

307
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:24,640
mean I know that if if any of the
existing ones in the back are double

308
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:31,120
hungs that are that are existing and
original windows, they're probably would

309
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:36,640
almost be better to have those re
refurbished than it would be to have

310
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:43,360
them replaced because if you if you talk
to window people um that refurbish

311
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:47,440
windows. Even
replacing windows,

312
00:22:45,679 --> 00:22:53,280
you don't get the quality of window that
you would have got in the 1880s,

313
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:54,799
especially for a a house of this scale
and size.

314
00:22:54,320 --> 00:23:00,480
» Yeah.
>> So, um but it could be that somebody

315
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,440
came through and changed them all out,
too.

316
00:23:01,039 --> 00:23:05,360
» Yeah.
>> So,

317
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:12,799
» I I've I've been in the home um three
times. I I did not see any double hungs,

318
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:15,360
but maybe I missed the back porch, the
ones that are above the back porch.

319
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:21,200
» Yeah,
>> now that I'm trying to remember. Um, but

320
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:25,039
almost every window that I looked at and
I thought I went through there was a

321
00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:32,960
fixed glass. So, yeah,
>> I'm I'm happy to replace them. I want to

322
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:37,760
keep the um historical integrity and and
make sure that it looks um as it should.

323
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:42,240
You know, definitely.
>> And I guess what I was just trying to

324
00:23:39,039 --> 00:23:48,400
get at was probably double hungs were
originally on the house. And if there's

325
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:53,120
no photographic evidence that they were
one over one or two over two or you know

326
00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:57,440
there were muttons
>> you know

327
00:23:55,039 --> 00:24:00,320
» what do we think about you know if if
you wanted to include you know

328
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:05,280
» muttons
>> muttons would would that be acceptable?

329
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:11,039
» Yeah.
And I I think we'd probably rely on any

330
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:15,440
photograph, but if there wasn't any if
there wasn't any, it would really be I

331
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:20,400
think it'd be probably up to you about
what

332
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:24,480
what you feel is a I guess
>> period appropriateness. Yeah,

333
00:24:22,799 --> 00:24:27,679
» period. There might be more than one
answer to that. It sounds

334
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:32,080
» and there could be. Yeah, especially if
there's no evidence, photographic

335
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:36,480
evidence. It's like, okay, probably
something like, you know, 12 over 12 is

336
00:24:34,159 --> 00:24:40,960
not, you know, is not appropriate, but
you know, something else,

337
00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:43,760
» something that would have harmony with
the home. Yeah.

338
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:49,440
» Yeah. And and you could get clues maybe
from homes of similar age

339
00:24:47,279 --> 00:24:55,279
» in the neighborhood and size. Yeah.
>> Absolutely. because uh

340
00:24:52,320 --> 00:25:00,640
yeah, I know that I know that the house
that I'm in right now doesn't have any

341
00:24:58,159 --> 00:25:05,279
buttons in it at all. And it the windows
are from 1888

342
00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:07,760
or 1890. So
>> pretty close.

343
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:10,240
» Yeah.
>> But

344
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:15,039
» but they're double hung, right?
>> They are double hung and they do not

345
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:20,000
function, but [laughter]
>> but we're working on that. Um but yeah,

346
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:26,080
I think that Yeah. Now, when it comes to
the porch, I guess again it it would

347
00:25:22,900 --> 00:25:27,679
[clears throat] be nice to see more uh
historic

348
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:32,640
» Yeah.
>> Uh if there were any historic

349
00:25:29,919 --> 00:25:36,880
photographs and if this is a this is a
prominent house in Geneva, I think that

350
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:42,799
you probably will be able to find
something to tell you what what's going

351
00:25:40,159 --> 00:25:47,600
on there. Um
>> yeah, I hope I find some. I definitely

352
00:25:46,159 --> 00:25:51,600
I'm going to be searching for them.
Yeah, I I think the history center would

353
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:57,440
be able to help you with that.
>> I'm not sure that the uh the images that

354
00:25:54,640 --> 00:26:06,159
you put together are,
>> you know, are are entirely appropriate

355
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:12,640
without having any visual. I mean, I
don't think they'd be wrapound porches,

356
00:26:08,799 --> 00:26:18,240
but again, without any uh visual
evidence, it it would be tough. Just

357
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:23,200
based on the sandborns, I think I'd be
reluctant to approve a wrap around I

358
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:25,679
mean a wrap around that one corner.
>> Yes.

359
00:26:23,919 --> 00:26:30,080
» Exactly.
>> And on the and on the smaller one on

360
00:26:29,279 --> 00:26:32,000
» um
>> the

361
00:26:30,799 --> 00:26:35,039
» James Street there.
>> Yeah.

362
00:26:33,279 --> 00:26:37,120
» That doesn't need to be wrapped around.
That would just be opened up, I would

363
00:26:36,799 --> 00:26:38,400
say.
>> Yeah.

364
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,799
» Right.
>> And I think

365
00:26:39,039 --> 00:26:43,520
» that's just a small little porch off the
side.

366
00:26:41,679 --> 00:26:48,480
» And I think there's a clue. There's a
the house right to the north of there

367
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:52,799
has a similar
um wrap around to that sandborn map

368
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:55,840
where it's just you know half of the
front and it wraps around to one side.

369
00:26:54,960 --> 00:27:00,960
So
>> you know maybe some clue like that um

370
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:06,960
you know you might take a clue from that
house or others that have a similar

371
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:09,960
» porch to what we see on the sandborn
maps.

372
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:20,559
» Yeah.
Once I am able to I think um

373
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:24,159
if I put an offer in, if I if I am able
to get this building, then I I already

374
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:30,559
had an architect look at it with me
once. Um but we haven't done any work on

375
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:36,080
it yet. So I would keep it to just
what's on the map and do it like from

376
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:43,200
the front door onto the north side. Um
the wraparound there. But um the I did

377
00:27:41,120 --> 00:27:48,640
have a question about the front like the
full width of the front there under the

378
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:55,120
windows. There's like a gabled end
return that's just sticking out like

379
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:59,840
that. So do we hopefully we can find
from maybe some photos if there was

380
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:05,360
something under those windows that went
across the whole front. I don't know.

381
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:12,200
Yeah, I think
is it what what's do you know what the

382
00:28:07,679 --> 00:28:12,200
sighting is on that right now?

383
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:16,960
» It's uh aluminum.
>> I think it's aluminum. I want

384
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:20,240
» I don't think it's vinyl.
>> I don't think it's wood right now,

385
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:23,279
» but there could be wood underneath it.
I'd be

386
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:29,360
» there. Yeah. And and and the other thing
that that would tell you whether the

387
00:28:26,399 --> 00:28:35,120
extent of the porch might help you is if
you if you do a little destructive to to

388
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,399
see what's under that aluminum because
there might be

389
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,679
» Okay.
>> ghosts of what was back there.

390
00:28:39,039 --> 00:28:41,840
» Okay.
>> Yeah.

391
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,200
» And investigate on the back side of the
house.

392
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,799
» Yes. Exactly.
>> Yeah. Yeah.

393
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:52,240
And that's something I can walk you
through sort of which patches might be

394
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:55,919
useful to take off and was scale because
that's not something where you would be

395
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:59,760
able to take off everything all at once
without a permit or anything. But a

396
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:04,080
little bit of investigative demolition
>> we do allow just to see what we've got

397
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,480
going on under there.
>> Okay.

398
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,559
» Before you go through with everything
else,

399
00:29:07,039 --> 00:29:11,840
» right?
>> Yeah. You don't want to commit to that.

400
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:19,200
» Yeah, I [laughter] know. and and and
once once it's all off it, you're kind

401
00:29:15,679 --> 00:29:21,279
of pige holding which way you have to go
back.

402
00:29:20,159 --> 00:29:26,559
» So,
>> and we've had that discussion before.

403
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:34,640
» We have we have someone has unearthed,
you know, historic materials through a a

404
00:29:30,159 --> 00:29:39,360
demo process and then had to, you know,
>> deal with those proceed with the drive

405
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:44,399
down the road. So, just tread lightly.
Um, the other thing is before you end up

406
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:47,600
um, you know, signing a a contract with
or enlisting the architect to do any

407
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:52,159
work, you might want to have the
architect check in with Emily so that

408
00:29:50,159 --> 00:29:56,640
they're not spending, you know, design
hours on something that's maybe

409
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:58,159
» not going to be relevant toward the
cause.

410
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:06,159
» Absolutely.
>> Yeah. I mean, I think that

411
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:11,120
um I think the connection with the
garage and that sort of thing, I think

412
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:16,080
that's something that you c we could
probably

413
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:23,200
we we do allow additions onto buildings.
And I think the one thing that Emily can

414
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:28,240
walk your architect through on how
if they're not familiar with historic

415
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:36,240
preservation, how you can marry the two
buildings together so that the intent of

416
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:40,640
our of lot we we want to see what the
building originally be able to tell what

417
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:44,960
the building originally looked like,
right? And then [clears throat] the the

418
00:30:41,919 --> 00:30:49,360
addition is not so much a copy of what's
there, but you can kind of see that

419
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:53,679
there's a break between the two, the old
and the new.

420
00:30:50,320 --> 00:31:00,720
» Okay. So, and uh I think there's some
very successful

421
00:30:57,039 --> 00:31:06,880
uh I think it's Grahams 318, which is no
longer Grahams 318 is a very successful

422
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:11,840
version of that where they added on to
the building and it didn't it you can

423
00:31:09,919 --> 00:31:13,840
still tell what the original building
was.

424
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:19,039
» Right. So,
>> I think in addition on the back there,

425
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:24,240
it to me might be a a tricky thing
because you've got a pretty unique set

426
00:31:22,159 --> 00:31:26,080
of roof lines in the back there.
>> Yeah.

427
00:31:24,559 --> 00:31:30,480
» That,
>> you know, if you if you put a large

428
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:33,600
twostory addition right smack up against
there

429
00:31:31,279 --> 00:31:38,880
» that might be a little overwhelming and
problematic. So, that that's just my

430
00:31:36,399 --> 00:31:44,000
opinion. But were you planning on
tearing down that garage or building

431
00:31:41,679 --> 00:31:49,279
over top of it potentially or?
>> Yeah. Uh, at first I was thinking of

432
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:54,080
going, you know, on top of the garage
that I think that when I met you, Emily,

433
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:59,679
that was my thought. Um, but after
looking at it again and really doing

434
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:05,600
some more research and discussion about
it, I think the garage would come down

435
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:12,000
completely. there would be kind of a
connector area between the existing

436
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:17,760
structure and the addition and I don't
know how high the addition would be but

437
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:24,960
I it would have a second floor but um
like a connector like similar to well

438
00:32:21,279 --> 00:32:32,080
not similar to but I know that
past basket has like a connector

439
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:35,760
building to it and I think um we're
behind

440
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:39,919
Um, Margaret Matson that is like another
building behind there. I don't know if

441
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:44,880
it has a connector, but even Dodson
Place does like so it'll be saying just

442
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:50,720
like a singlestory transition
>> something transition and it could be a

443
00:32:46,799 --> 00:32:55,600
nice um vestibule entry guest you know
entry which I think would be nice too.

444
00:32:53,440 --> 00:33:01,039
So, it would serve a couple purposes
there and it would have um it would be

445
00:32:58,399 --> 00:33:06,000
very bright, very light is what I was
envisioning and then the other building

446
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:11,440
kind of trying to match that roof line
which has all that, you know, asymmetry

447
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:16,000
to it, all the
different things happening. So

448
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:20,480
» yeah, I think that might be a a a way to
start looking at it, you know, as the

449
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:26,320
addition separate, you know, maybe in
that space where the existing garage is,

450
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:31,120
but have it connected by one a one-story
portico of some sort or whatever to the

451
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:34,880
existing building so that you definitely
get that separation between the addition

452
00:33:33,679 --> 00:33:37,919
and the old building.
>> Yeah.

453
00:33:35,279 --> 00:33:40,320
» Um but it still potentially could serve
your purposes,

454
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:45,600
» right?
>> Yeah. You know, there's like three

455
00:33:41,679 --> 00:33:50,399
levels of roof on that
>> building and at least

456
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:55,039
» there's many many levels.
>> And I don't know that I would like, you

457
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:58,000
know, go to the highest level, you know,
that we see here on the front facade.

458
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:01,840
» No.
>> Um, that might be a little overwhelming

459
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:06,880
for the neighborhood.
>> I think so, too. Um,

460
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:10,960
» yeah, but I I do think that and and I
think your architect will find that

461
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:18,079
there's there's I don't know whether the
zoning still is that you take the area

462
00:34:14,399 --> 00:34:24,079
of if you slice the building at 20 foot
and then everything if if you're in the

463
00:34:21,119 --> 00:34:30,720
if you have lower eaves and you're doing
a story and a half, you actually can put

464
00:34:26,879 --> 00:34:35,839
a lot more square footage in per zoning
because of that. because you can use

465
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:43,280
that area under the not under the eaves
but at the eaves to be able to um as

466
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:52,079
floor space. So it's it you're really it
it the and that would also help with not

467
00:34:48,639 --> 00:34:58,720
making it overwhelm the existing house I
believe. So that that sort of thing and

468
00:34:55,520 --> 00:35:01,760
Emily knows about that. So she would
let your complicated walk your architect

469
00:35:01,264 --> 00:35:06,079
[laughter] through.
>> We kind of looked at that that that

470
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:10,240
house on Ford Street recently with that
large addition. Correct. Where

471
00:35:08,079 --> 00:35:16,480
» you know they maintained that smaller
one on onetory kind of portico that went

472
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:21,520
from the very small farmhouse type
building to a larger addition. And I

473
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:27,599
don't know if you were thinking about,
you know, applying for the um state tax

474
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:34,000
freeze. Um but
they approved that type of um connection

475
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:37,280
between an an older building and a new
building. So

476
00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:41,200
» is that a for commercial?
>> This would probably be more of a tax

477
00:35:39,359 --> 00:35:45,040
credit because it would technically be a
commercial building, but I can also do

478
00:35:43,839 --> 00:35:48,640
that, too.
>> Yeah.

479
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:54,720
Okay.
Yeah, the tax freeze is for residential

480
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:58,240
and then credit is for commercial
>> and it kind of balances itself out that

481
00:35:57,599 --> 00:36:01,760
way, right?
>> That will, just so you know, if you are

482
00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:05,200
interested in that, that does kick in a
higher level of review because the state

483
00:36:03,359 --> 00:36:07,520
gets involved and the state looks at
both the interior and the exterior.

484
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,480
» Okay.
>> But that's totally something I can talk

485
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:14,079
to you about if you're interested.
>> I read through it, but it's a lot.

486
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:17,920
» It's a lot and there's a lot going on
other than that, too. So, totally one

487
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:22,480
piece at a time. Yeah. And and [snorts]
it if it was a commercial building

488
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:25,760
inside, they might have been completely
different than what it was originally.

489
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:30,960
So
>> there aren't any fireplaces and it it

490
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:34,960
doesn't look like there's Yeah. In the
inside there's

491
00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:36,560
» I didn't find anything historical,
unfortunately.

492
00:36:36,079 --> 00:36:39,920
» Yeah.
>> Yeah. So,

493
00:36:38,079 --> 00:36:44,640
» is there even a kitchen in there?
>> No,

494
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:48,085
no kitchen. There's a refrigerator off
the back porch. [laughter]

495
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:52,000
That's historic.
>> Is it historic?

496
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:59,839
» Yeah.
>> Yeah. And I I I Well, and actually with

497
00:36:55,839 --> 00:37:04,720
with the new guidelines, September 1957,
the two-car garage

498
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:10,400
could be considered
historic, but I'm not sure just looking

499
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:15,599
at what it is right now that we would
consider it historic.

500
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:20,720
» Not very significant.
or significant. So, yeah, that

501
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:24,960
» contributing.
>> I mean, you're almost thinking about

502
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:26,320
it's kind of like a an ADU type of
construction,

503
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:31,680
» correct?
>> For that addition that has been, you

504
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:36,400
know, approved previously. So,
>> I'm hoping the addition doesn't even

505
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:41,359
come out as far as the garage is sitting
currently.

506
00:37:37,599 --> 00:37:46,960
» So, because the garage almost um comes
right to the property line.

507
00:37:43,119 --> 00:37:51,920
» Sure. So, and right to that tree behind
it. So, it would be nice if it if there

508
00:37:49,359 --> 00:37:56,240
was like a space there and it didn't
come all the way out that far. That

509
00:37:53,920 --> 00:38:02,160
would be almost too big for a building
to be sitting on that corner with

510
00:37:59,839 --> 00:38:07,160
as a twotory going all the way to the
back of the garage. I feel

511
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,160
» Yeah.

512
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:12,160
Well,
>> in summary,

513
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:17,680
» yes, in summary, I think uh we do look
at those those samps just to kind of

514
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:21,200
give us a hint as to what the old
footprints are. We do try to stick to

515
00:38:19,599 --> 00:38:26,960
those things and and make sure that
we're giving a nod to what's uh happened

516
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:31,119
in the past, using historic photos as
references. So, if we see something

517
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:35,520
happening in there that, you know, was
referenced to something historic, we

518
00:38:32,720 --> 00:38:38,960
it's nice to see maybe that uh brought
back if it's not there today, like we

519
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:45,280
were talking about the windows and the
details can help give us those types of

520
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:49,359
of insights. Um, seeing the original
frame of the building and making sure

521
00:38:47,359 --> 00:38:54,079
that any addition or anything like that
isn't overpowering what's happening. and

522
00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:58,560
it sounds like it won't, you know, it'll
be set back enough and we'll still see

523
00:38:55,920 --> 00:39:03,599
the the original building and it'll
still be the the primary focus. That's

524
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:08,079
always important as well. So, I think
that um as long as we do that and then,

525
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:11,839
you know, we can work you can work with
Emily in terms of materials and things

526
00:39:09,839 --> 00:39:16,400
like that to make sure that we're, you
know, not um swapping out or um

527
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:21,520
replacing things with materials that
wouldn't be, you know, um in kind with

528
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:23,839
what's already there. That's uh that's
what we're looking for. So,

529
00:39:22,720 --> 00:39:24,960
» okay.
>> Sound good?

530
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,160
» Great.
>> Sounds good.

531
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:29,200
» Thank you.
>> Do you have any other questions?

532
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:31,599
» Not at this moment.
>> I'll be back.

533
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,920
» Well, good luck.
>> Thank you so much.

534
00:39:32,720 --> 00:39:37,280
» It would be nice to have something
that's of a little different use in that

535
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,520
space, I think.
>> Thank you.

536
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,640
» Very good. Thank you.
>> Thanks for coming in.

537
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:46,320
» Thanks.
>> Okay.

538
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:52,880
» Move past the fifth street.
>> We're gonna skip fifth street. Okay. The

539
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:57,520
next U item on our agenda is 402
Campbell Street. It's review of building

540
00:39:55,040 --> 00:40:01,760
permit application.
>> Okay. So, we are looking at 402

541
00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:08,640
Campbell, just a little bit south of
where we just were. Quick history on the

542
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:15,760
property. It was uh erected in 1856 as a
house for Michael Jones/

543
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:21,520
Jones depending on what period of time
it was in the newspapers uh and when he

544
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:26,320
sort of switched to Americanized Jones.
In 1955 it was purchased by Frank W.

545
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:30,480
Harding Jr. from that Jones family. So
it remained in the Jones family for 99

546
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:34,800
years which is pretty impressive. In
1957, the south and west wing additions

547
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:40,160
were in constructed, including the
staircase that we're looking at right

548
00:40:36,240 --> 00:40:44,560
now. And in between 2016 and 2018, the
house was remodeled and topouses were

549
00:40:41,839 --> 00:40:47,760
added to the property. And during that
time, there was a lot of discussion of

550
00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:53,760
different pieces of the house and the
different wings and the staircase, which

551
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:57,599
some of you might remember happening or
some viewers at home might remember

552
00:40:55,359 --> 00:41:01,839
happening.
Uh just a couple permit histories on

553
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:07,920
this property. Other than that, in 2016
the windows were done and in 2023 it got

554
00:41:05,359 --> 00:41:11,200
a new roof. So like I said, we're
looking at that staircase there, which

555
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:15,839
isn't really in the footprint because
it's a staircase, but I outlined

556
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:20,400
generally where it is on this little
plat. And here are some photos of the

557
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:25,599
existing condition. So the proposal is
really to replace the steel frame of the

558
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:29,280
staircase, not that cast iron there.
That's sort of a it goes by a lot of

559
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:34,240
different names, but one of them the my
favorite name for it is the twisty oak

560
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:38,560
cast iron pattern. Um, and that's still
sort of in production today actually.

561
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:43,680
It's still a pretty popular cast iron
attempt to be built. That all all of

562
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:48,319
those elements would be taken down. The
steel would be replaced and then the

563
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:51,359
cast iron would be put back up. So
anywhere where there's cast iron,

564
00:41:49,839 --> 00:41:55,839
there's sort of steel framing it and
that's what would be replaced under this

565
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:58,720
proposal. You can see, especially in the
photos kind of underneath the stairs,

566
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:02,560
and you have some of them online, too,
if it's easier to look at it there. You

567
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:07,440
can see a lot of the pitting happening
in the existing frame.

568
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:11,760
Um, but there's not really a lot of
damage almost at all to the cast iron.

569
00:42:09,839 --> 00:42:15,680
So, that's all in good shape. It would
not need to be really repaired in any

570
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:19,920
way beyond being removed for that frame
and then put right back on.

571
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:23,760
And these stairs are especially
interesting because you can see even on

572
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:28,480
the risers they put cast iron in. They
hit it everywhere they could. I think

573
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:32,079
we've had past
permit reviews where it was discussed

574
00:42:30,240 --> 00:42:36,079
that this was maybe one of those
situations where it was really the the

575
00:42:33,839 --> 00:42:39,760
owner's style in the 50s when that
addition was added on that the property

576
00:42:38,319 --> 00:42:44,160
owner was really into sort of this
style. And it wasn't quite that it was

577
00:42:41,839 --> 00:42:46,720
of the period, but more that she got to
do what she wanted to do to her house

578
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:54,079
and that's what she wanted to do to her
house. And now we have this very ornate

579
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:57,599
cast iron stair in the district.
very New Orleans like

580
00:42:55,520 --> 00:43:05,119
» very New Orleans like. Actually, one of
the cataloges I found it in was uh New

581
00:43:01,359 --> 00:43:09,119
Orleans replicas of different cast iron
pieces found out in New Orleans.

582
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:13,040
So, these are just some more of the
existing conditions photos what it sort

583
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:19,440
of looks like from behind and then also
a photo from the street that looks much

584
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:22,400
grayer because I took it on a rainy day.
And then this is just drawings of what

585
00:43:21,119 --> 00:43:27,680
that frame would be that would be being
replaced. So we're looking at sort of

586
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:31,760
the stringers and platforms and then
also

587
00:43:29,359 --> 00:43:37,760
uh the footings and replacing the frames
for the columns. And if you read your uh

588
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:41,440
documents very very closely, you might
see that sand blasting is on there as

589
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:43,920
part of the estimate. As we know, sand
blasting is not really approved by the

590
00:43:42,720 --> 00:43:48,240
Secretary of the Interior Standards
because that's a pretty aggressive

591
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:52,480
method. that sand blasting would not be
on the existing historic materials. It

592
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:58,400
would be on the replacement materials in
order to basically rough it up so that a

593
00:43:54,800 --> 00:44:05,359
primer and a a coat of protection,
excuse me, could be applied on site. Um,

594
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:08,880
and it then after that is when the cast
iron would be applied so they would not

595
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:13,200
be touched by the sand blasting. Just
pointing that out because anytime I see

596
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:18,079
that, big red sirens go off in my head
and I want to get ahead of it before

597
00:44:15,599 --> 00:44:22,640
they start going off in your head, too.
>> Sand blasting is an aggressive word.

598
00:44:20,720 --> 00:44:27,839
» Yeah, even the word is like that's a
crazy visual to have in your head. Um,

599
00:44:26,079 --> 00:44:32,160
and that's really the whole application.
So, really replacing those frames and

600
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:38,480
footings and then putting everything
back. Is the second floor landing

601
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:43,119
» being done also or are we just talking
about the first landing?

602
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:46,560
» Yeah, so that's a good question. So, um
it would be kind of a three-phase

603
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:50,240
project
where it would first be the landing on

604
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:56,560
the left, the landing on the right, and
then it would go to the riers and all

605
00:44:52,560 --> 00:45:00,000
that up to the second floor in that set.
And actually, we can have the applicant

606
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:03,839
come up and explain that more if you
want.

607
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:06,880
introduce yourself.
>> Yep. Good evening everybody. Chris

608
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:11,440
Landis,
uh owner of Valley Acupuncture and also

609
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:15,599
402 uh Campbell Street. We uh just
purchased it this year from uh Bob

610
00:45:13,119 --> 00:45:18,800
Rasmusen who did the historic um
renovation of this. Did a really

611
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:23,119
phenomenal job. Him and his partner uh
Rick Doll. Um you know, so we're happy

612
00:45:21,119 --> 00:45:26,800
to be here in Geneva. And all we're
doing right now was trying to uh you

613
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:31,359
know, just from a structural standpoint,
maintain what we have. Um you can see

614
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:36,480
those columns right there. Um they're
actually subgrade. So those steel

615
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:40,000
columns actually go below um the ground
and obviously, you know, that's just

616
00:45:38,240 --> 00:45:43,359
primed for rust. And a couple of those
are starting to rust out. We have some

617
00:45:42,079 --> 00:45:48,560
of the boards that are starting to pop
up. The nails are popping up. So it's

618
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:53,119
it's definitely past its point um to to
be replaced. But amazingly, you know,

619
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:57,280
all that ornamental steel is in really
great shape. There's really no rusting

620
00:45:55,359 --> 00:46:00,640
um or ornamental rod iron. There's no
rusting going on there. So from an

621
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:04,160
aesthetic standpoint, it'll all stay the
same. Um it'll just be the structural

622
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:09,119
parts such as the stringers, you know,
the step frames, things like that. And

623
00:46:06,240 --> 00:46:12,720
to your question, sir, um all that that
second floor right there that stays the

624
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:18,000
same with the exception of, you know,
that stringer that connects in um that

625
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:21,520
that gets replaced on that uh that, you
know, second rise of stairs up there.

626
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:25,520
And there's one little post that's
rusted out and and it's not even there.

627
00:46:23,839 --> 00:46:28,880
So we're going to fix that. It's on the
right hand side as you're facing the

628
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:31,760
building. It's just like a little steel
stainless steel post that we're going to

629
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:36,079
weld on there. Just because it's
missing, it looks weird. Um, but other

630
00:46:33,599 --> 00:46:42,480
than that, everything will, you know, be
true to what you see right right now.

631
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:46,800
Um, and uh, yeah, it we we like the
looks of it. Even if it's not, you know,

632
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:50,960
from the original building in 1847, it
still looks kind of cool.

633
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:55,040
» It's been there long enough that I think
we'd probably struggle with like, you

634
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:58,960
know, removing it and, you know, not
having it there. Yeah, I know there

635
00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:03,920
there [clears throat] were people not of
the of the preservation partners that

636
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:09,920
thought it was inappropriate, but I it
it does have character in my mind and I

637
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:15,200
think that that something to be said
about that. So yeah, I I don't see any

638
00:47:13,359 --> 00:47:20,160
issues with it because you're really
replacing in kind

639
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:26,640
» and take the important thing to me is
that the uh u the u the railings and the

640
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:32,000
the the
>> cast iron stuff more than anything else.

641
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:36,720
And I think you're you're answering that
question. So

642
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:39,599
» are are the stair treads wood or what
are they?

643
00:47:37,359 --> 00:47:43,200
» They're they're uh Yeah. So the actual
like I guess in terms of like the the

644
00:47:41,359 --> 00:47:46,960
steps themselves the they're just like a
wood they're just they're just wood

645
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:50,960
decking. I don't know. I guess they're
missing the correct term there, but it's

646
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:55,040
just you know like typical wood decking
steps that you step on. Then frames

647
00:47:52,720 --> 00:47:58,720
themselves are are steel.
>> So are you replacing the wood?

648
00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:02,160
» The the wood we're actually going to
it's not in terrible shape. We're going

649
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:06,000
to pop it off, put a couple coats of
paint on there and just just nail them

650
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:10,800
back on. I mean screw them back on
there. Um, we might replace a couple of

651
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:13,839
those, uh, those pieces of of of wood
that, you know, have a little bit of

652
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:17,200
water logged on there. They're starting
to like bend or warp a little bit when

653
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:21,119
there's a lot of humidity. Um, but for
the most part, they're they're they're

654
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:23,760
fine. Um, I guess we could use, you
know, down the line and we'd have to get

655
00:48:22,319 --> 00:48:26,079
approval for that is, you know, what is
it? Tyveback or what is it?

656
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:30,079
» TX.
>> TX. Thank you. Tracks. Yeah. A little

657
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:34,079
bit more costly, right? But it it has a
longer duration to it. Then we also have

658
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:38,960
to be mindful of uh you know just
because the residents up on the second

659
00:48:35,839 --> 00:48:42,000
floor do come up and down from there. Um
just having something that they can

660
00:48:40,559 --> 00:48:45,760
actually grip onto. The nice thing about
wood uh you can get you know from

661
00:48:44,079 --> 00:48:48,400
Sherman Williams you can get like you
know matching it obviously to the

662
00:48:47,119 --> 00:48:51,760
existing paint but you can get something
with a little bit of coarseness to it to

663
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:55,920
put those granulars so you can actually
and and wood just looks nicer sometimes.

664
00:48:54,720 --> 00:49:01,359
So yeah,
>> I noticed that there was some curly

665
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:05,200
maple missing from some of the risers
for the steps like

666
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:08,240
» Yep. Yeah.
>> Are are you going to replace that or are

667
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:12,559
you leaving that or
>> Well, we're going to do is actually when

668
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:16,000
we when they take off and then put back
on, we're going to from the bottom,

669
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:19,599
we're going to we're going to put it
back from the bottom so it doesn't look

670
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:23,280
as awkward because right now when we
bought the building, they're missing a

671
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:27,040
couple up on top. And I I agree it looks
kind of awkward where there's like a

672
00:49:24,720 --> 00:49:30,800
part of it missing. Um but yeah, it's
nowhere to be found. You know, it's not

673
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:34,079
on the property. So, we're just going to
take some from the bottom and put them

674
00:49:32,240 --> 00:49:37,520
up on the the top when we replace, you
know, when we take it off and then put

675
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:40,880
it back on. That way, there's
uniformness, you know, with it all.

676
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:43,920
» So, there'll be missing pieces on the
bottom.

677
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:47,040
» Yeah, exactly. Yeah. On the bottom, you
won't even notice it just because I

678
00:49:45,599 --> 00:49:50,720
think there's only two missing. I think
there's those two right there. Other

679
00:49:49,119 --> 00:49:53,040
than that, they're they're all there. So
it'll just be a couple that are missing

680
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:57,040
at that point. You can find that in a
catalog somewhere.

681
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:59,839
» I actually that's the one part because I
did look I started finding all the

682
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:00,480
railings and everything. I was like, "Oh
my god."

683
00:50:00,240 --> 00:50:04,160
» Yeah,
>> those are so easy. But those are the one

684
00:50:02,240 --> 00:50:06,400
things that are way less easy to find
those pieces on the risers than the rest

685
00:50:05,839 --> 00:50:08,800
of it.
>> What are they called? What is that? What

686
00:50:08,240 --> 00:50:11,119
is that?
>> Yeah. I don't

687
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:16,800
» There's a term for that.
>> I would like if I was describing it and

688
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:19,040
putting it in a nomination, I would like
a

689
00:50:17,599 --> 00:50:24,000
» Yeah.
decorative hanging

690
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:29,280
» riser. I mean,
it's a very riser unique element.

691
00:50:25,839 --> 00:50:32,079
» It's actually the riser. So, it's a find
that outative riser. I'm looking. I'm

692
00:50:31,359 --> 00:50:35,760
looking.
>> It probably gets kicked out over time,

693
00:50:34,319 --> 00:50:37,200
you know.
>> That's very cool.

694
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:41,280
» Yeah.
>> So, one other thing and I'll be done.

695
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:44,319
» Um,
the 2016 photograph.

696
00:50:43,599 --> 00:50:49,680
» Yes.
>> Um, there's curly maple on those.

697
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:55,200
um
posts that hold up the second floor. Is

698
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:59,440
are is that missing?
I mean, I know it's So, the two posts on

699
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:02,240
the each side.
>> Oh,

700
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:07,280
» wooden. I I I'm assuming they're wooden
posts.

701
00:51:04,559 --> 00:51:11,440
» Yeah, that the one that that's true to
existing right now. I'm not sure if

702
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:18,319
there was if there was some ornamental
steel that was uh or rot iron that was

703
00:51:15,599 --> 00:51:24,559
curly maple in nature. Um, yeah, we
don't see any. That's when they did that

704
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:27,680
renovation 2018, they must have um taken
it out. I don't know. At some point,

705
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:28,800
it's but it's it's not there anymore.
>> Okay.

706
00:51:28,240 --> 00:51:32,160
» Yeah.
>> Didn't know if it was like in the garage

707
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:36,559
somewhere or something.
>> Well, we do, to your point, we do have

708
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:40,480
some some old and I'm not sure where it
comes where it where it came from, but

709
00:51:38,240 --> 00:51:45,599
we do have some some pieces, you know,
still in the the shed. There's a shed

710
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:49,920
out back. And uh at some point, you
know, we'll plan to, you know, I'll be

711
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:52,640
back here to, you know, the windows are
like shot out, you know, it's like one

712
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:56,000
of these things you like try to do it in
steps. Sure. You know, so it's been for

713
00:51:54,480 --> 00:52:00,079
us like drainage has been a big thing
this year just, you know, because it was

714
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:03,680
like this old corrugated
um

715
00:52:01,119 --> 00:52:06,480
» um what the corrugated pipe, you know,
being that

716
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:10,400
» that black stuff that goes down. We put
like nice PVC so it actually like flows

717
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:13,839
where it's supposed to flow. But and
this is like a big project for us right

718
00:52:12,319 --> 00:52:17,200
now that we're going to do, but slowly
pieces. But yeah, to your point, I think

719
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:20,160
there is some old, you know, that that
ro maybe that that's what it's from. And

720
00:52:19,119 --> 00:52:24,640
in the shed
>> Yeah. I mean, it's it basically I think

721
00:52:21,839 --> 00:52:29,040
was the the ornamental stuff on the
second floor that goes from the from the

722
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:31,280
deck to the roof. That that was
continued from the deck down to the

723
00:52:30,720 --> 00:52:34,000
ground.
>> Okay.

724
00:52:32,319 --> 00:52:37,520
» I think there's photos of that.
>> Yep.

725
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:40,000
» It basically exactly matched.
And there's the packets over there. You

726
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:44,319
can grab
>> if you ever need a copy.

727
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:50,760
» Oh, that's good.
Um, and I can send you digital copies,

728
00:52:46,240 --> 00:52:50,760
too, that you Thank you.

729
00:52:51,359 --> 00:52:56,480
» Yeah, you just get the flavor of it on
the 2016 picture. There's just a little

730
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:59,480
bit of
>> Yeah.

731
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:10,880
» Oh, I see what you're talking about.
Yep. Um, that very well could be some of

732
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:14,240
the stuff that we have in our uh our
shed. Um,

733
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:17,599
» or the seller.
>> Looks What's that?

734
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:20,079
» Or the seller.
>> Yeah.

735
00:53:18,559 --> 00:53:24,400
» Yeah. I just bring it up. I mean, I'm
not asking you to do that. I just was

736
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:26,880
curious if if you had thoughts of doing
that potentially in the future if it was

737
00:53:26,240 --> 00:53:29,920
still available.
>> We're definitely not getting getting rid

738
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:33,520
of it. I saw it there and I was like, we
could use it at some point if some of

739
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:38,640
this ever rusts out. We're trying to
replace it in kind. Um but uh but yeah,

740
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:43,839
that's exactly probably the pieces that
you're speaking to. Um are those are

741
00:53:41,599 --> 00:53:47,359
those right there? And like I said, all
the ornamental I'm not sure. It's just

742
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:50,480
it's upheld really well. Probably
because it doesn't get exposed to too

743
00:53:48,720 --> 00:53:54,880
much salt. And that's our plan when we
do this. It's just to keep, you know, a

744
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:58,720
better eye on um once we put that zinc
epoxy primer on there and, you know, the

745
00:53:56,400 --> 00:54:02,400
polyurethane intermediate top coats just
stay up with that every couple years

746
00:54:01,119 --> 00:54:06,800
because it does take a beating with all
the salt. make sure that the tenants are

747
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:11,280
safe.
>> Yes.

748
00:54:07,839 --> 00:54:15,200
» Well, I don't see any any other
questions or comments. No.

749
00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:19,520
» If if not, can I get a motion to
approve?

750
00:54:16,720 --> 00:54:24,880
» Move to approve the stair rehabilitation
at 402 Campbell Street.

751
00:54:22,240 --> 00:54:26,480
» Second.
>> Zelmer.

752
00:54:25,839 --> 00:54:27,920
» I.
>> Tolbler.

753
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:29,200
» I.
>> McManis.

754
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:30,880
» I.
>> Phillips.

755
00:54:29,839 --> 00:54:34,319
» I. Okay.
>> Your motion passes. Thank you very much.

756
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:36,240
» All right. Thanks. Yeah, it's been a joy
having experience it.

757
00:54:35,839 --> 00:54:39,119
» Yeah.
>> Thanks for coming in.

758
00:54:37,599 --> 00:54:42,559
» Thank you.
>> So, I'll send you an email tomorrow with

759
00:54:41,119 --> 00:54:46,400
this review and then building will
continue to finish up the rest of the

760
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:48,960
review so that you can pick up your per
permit soon.

761
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:50,880
» Oh, great on. Do I need to uh reach out
to building at all or just naturally

762
00:54:50,559 --> 00:54:53,920
just
>> N forward it on. We try to keep it

763
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:54,880
smooth for you guys.
>> All right. Thank you.

764
00:54:54,559 --> 00:54:57,839
» Great.
>> Have a good night.

765
00:54:55,920 --> 00:55:01,200
» Thank you.
>> I do love that house. That

766
00:54:59,920 --> 00:55:06,319
» Yeah, that thing's awesome.
>> Yeah. Yeah, we uh when we went there

767
00:55:04,319 --> 00:55:09,760
with uh with Bob, we leased it at first.
Um and I worked with Calamos. I helped

768
00:55:08,559 --> 00:55:14,160
out with their whole real estate
portfolio at Citygate Center. And uh I

769
00:55:12,319 --> 00:55:17,200
was going in with my wife, we just took
over the business, made it more of a

770
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:20,319
holistic center. And when we got there,
we were like, man, we can't imagine it

771
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:23,040
like the business anywhere else, you
know, just because it has so much

772
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:25,520
character there. And people, you know,
from all around the Tri Cities used to

773
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:29,760
go there and they're just like you feel
like you can actually heal once you walk

774
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:33,200
into the building. just it those uh
those buildings just there's a presence

775
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:35,040
there. That's awesome to have that kind
of use in that building.

776
00:55:34,559 --> 00:55:38,160
» Exactly.
>> Yeah.

777
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:42,319
» And that rot iron steer
>> that's Yeah, that thing is

778
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:45,440
great.
>> Yeah, they they uh Yeah, they've got

779
00:55:44,240 --> 00:55:47,839
they've got their fair share because I
forget what the insurance company was,

780
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:51,599
but it was like the largest
>> I think it was a cattleman's insurance.

781
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:56,559
» Yeah, it was it was the largest one east
of Mississippi. They insured the most

782
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:59,040
cattle. Yeah. It was wild. So yeah, it's
fun working with Bob and Rick. They're

783
00:55:57,839 --> 00:56:03,839
really good people.
>> Great.

784
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:08,880
» Thank you very much. Thanks.
>> Okay,

785
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:13,200
now that our public has left, [laughter]
>> secretar's report.

786
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:17,599
» All right, kind of not a lot of going
on, but also kind of a lot going on. So,

787
00:56:15,359 --> 00:56:21,200
I'll get real quick. Uh, building permit
update. Only three cases

788
00:56:18,799 --> 00:56:23,760
administratively approved this month. Uh
for those of you keeping an eye on

789
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:28,640
what's going on with the comprehensive
plan sort of build out that we've been

790
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:32,880
doing, we're expecting an existing
conditions report to be presented

791
00:56:30,720 --> 00:56:38,079
sometime in September and that'll be in
front of council and PCC. Um currently

792
00:56:36,240 --> 00:56:42,720
it's being edited and going through
several layers of edits. The next HPC

793
00:56:40,799 --> 00:56:46,799
meeting is September 15th. So the
materials for that will be September

794
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:51,280
1st. I already have two projects that
you all can expect to see that. So those

795
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:54,559
are in progress. And then this is just
something that's happening nationally

796
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:58,000
that I want to make sure the commission
is aware of and anyone sort of

797
00:56:56,319 --> 00:57:03,200
interested in preservation in the
community is aware of. Um these two QR

798
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:09,920
codes will take you both to a couple
different resource pages on what's going

799
00:57:05,839 --> 00:57:16,319
on. Section 106 is basically the part of
the national register the n national

800
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:20,480
historic preservation act which keeps an
eye on regulation of properties that are

801
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:25,920
federally owned or affected by federal
money or regulation. So that's the

802
00:57:22,799 --> 00:57:32,400
review that goes on anytime anything
um involving federal money really gets

803
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:37,200
involved on historic properties. So
there is a proposed several proposed

804
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:41,200
changes to section 106 right now that
are being reviewed at several layers

805
00:57:39,599 --> 00:57:46,079
that's not officially open for public
comment yet, but you can comment uh talk

806
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:50,079
to your congress people and governors
and not sure people about it right now.

807
00:57:48,319 --> 00:57:53,440
These both of these websites that
they're linked will announce when the

808
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:56,880
public comment officially opens. If you
are interested in making a public

809
00:57:54,559 --> 00:58:02,400
comment, anyone is welcome to. That's
how the democratic process works, I

810
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:06,400
guess you could say. Um the major
changes that are important for us to be

811
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:14,319
aware of as a commission and as a local
government are and as a a CLG

812
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:18,480
is that the proposed changes will really
restructure the consultation process. So

813
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:22,559
agencies would have more of the power
over that consultation process rather

814
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:26,880
than it being what it is now which is
led more separately from the agencies

815
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:30,079
with very set people involved. the
agencies would really have the choice

816
00:58:28,319 --> 00:58:34,640
over who would they would be getting
involved in the timing of that process.

817
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:39,760
So right now as cogs we have the right
to comment on anything happening within

818
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:42,799
our bounds and they're also required to
look at what sort of citizens have to

819
00:58:41,599 --> 00:58:47,440
say and different preservation
organizations locally have to say. They

820
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:51,520
would have a lot more of a choice were
this to be approved over who they would

821
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:54,880
be speaking with and that would all
happen at the end of the process. they

822
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:59,359
would circulate a report rather than
gathering comments throughout the

823
00:58:56,319 --> 00:59:03,200
process and having it be more sort of a
discussion.

824
00:59:01,119 --> 00:59:07,839
Um, also good to just know about with
these differences is that it would

825
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:16,160
reduce review requirements in general.
So, it's really reducing review to uh

826
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:21,359
much smaller spaces. They're saying
compact areas basically. So, cultural

827
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:24,960
landscapes, which I've talked about in
meetings before, really would lose a lot

828
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:29,040
of their review because they're a larger
area. It's specifically looking now at

829
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:32,160
areas that have been like specifically
constructed. I don't know the exact

830
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:36,079
wording, but specifically constructed
historically by humans. So those

831
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:41,280
landscapes and areas where it might have
be, you know, sacred spaces for Native

832
00:59:38,559 --> 00:59:45,440
American land, not totally touched by
human hands, but still very historic,

833
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:50,400
would undergo a very different level of
review and essentially a lower level of

834
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:54,160
review. And they're also looking at
lowering review for anything outside of

835
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:58,000
direct action. So that includes things
like view sheds would be considered much

836
00:59:56,079 --> 01:00:02,400
less. Uh effects on sound would be
considered much less, things like that.

837
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:05,680
things that are expected to happen a
long time in the future might be

838
01:00:04,079 --> 01:00:09,599
considered a lot less than things that
are more direct like for example a

839
01:00:07,359 --> 01:00:13,920
window replacement. So like if we were
looking at a window replacement under

840
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:17,119
section 106 the changes would be this
window's getting replaced where

841
01:00:15,599 --> 01:00:22,079
currently we look at this windows
getting replaced and in 50 years that's

842
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:26,400
what that might mean. So all of those
are really just details to be aware of

843
01:00:24,079 --> 01:00:30,880
under these changes. Like I said it's
undergoing a review process. This

844
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:33,760
National Trust QR code up there has a
lot a lot of information and a lot of

845
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:37,760
links to other websites that are
explainers. They've been doing webinars

846
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:43,280
about every two weeks on it that are
free. You can attend. The NAPSY National

847
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:46,480
for Preservation Commissions has just
started putting their work out on it.

848
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:51,359
They're also doing a webinar in the next
few weeks. You all have actually a

849
01:00:49,359 --> 01:00:56,480
printed out copy of what that QR code
goes to in your documents so that it's

850
01:00:54,240 --> 01:01:00,319
easier to access. and they're really
giving summaries based on how that

851
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:03,440
affects the local commissions, which
will be more helpful for your

852
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:08,000
understanding of what's going on. We
don't have a lot a lot of section 106

853
01:01:05,359 --> 01:01:12,640
reviews in town, but 302 North River is
an example of one that did undergo

854
01:01:09,359 --> 01:01:16,880
section 106 review and that did end up
having some requirements put in place

855
01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:20,960
due to that review, including that the
one house that's left was preserved as

856
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:24,559
part of that section 106 review. And a
lot of artifacts and things like that

857
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:29,440
are preserved in our plan to be
integrated into the new construction

858
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:36,480
there. And that was all part of that
review process. So, just to be aware,

859
01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:40,640
um, just to be able to do any research
that you want to do on it. Like I said,

860
01:01:38,799 --> 01:01:45,920
comments are not open yet officially for
the actual edits, but you can reach out

861
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:50,160
to people now if you want and then to be
aware later, the city does plan on

862
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:55,839
putting up a comment when the time
comes.

863
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:59,920
» How does that affect the the state and
>> Illinois Shipo? Are they being cut out

864
01:01:57,760 --> 01:02:09,520
of a lot of things or
>> Yes. And we expect a lot of confusion in

865
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:14,160
general if it was to happen. Um just
because it's a major change to something

866
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:19,040
that's been happening since the 60s.
So a lot of that would be not only would

867
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:23,119
the state have sort of a different level
of review than they're accustomed to,

868
01:02:21,359 --> 01:02:28,160
but also just getting used to those
changes. I would expect that uh there

869
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:32,880
would be some slowing down of certain
things, not due to any fault of anyone

870
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:37,680
in particular, but just getting used to
things would take a minute for other

871
01:02:34,559 --> 01:02:42,240
reviews to happen as well as all of that
was happening and processing through the

872
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:46,799
Shipo. The state historic preservation
office is has some federal funding and

873
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:49,440
then also has some state funding. And in
Illinois, we're really lucky that we've

874
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:52,640
been able to keep a lot of our state
funding through the different changes

875
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:57,359
that have been happening with historic
preservation recently. Um, so they're

876
01:02:56,000 --> 01:03:03,839
able to run a little bit more
efficiently than some other states. Um,

877
01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:09,520
but I would expect to see a little bit
of slowing as things changed over and

878
01:03:07,839 --> 01:03:14,799
new processes were kind of put into
place, if that makes sense.

879
01:03:10,799 --> 01:03:20,079
» Do people expect lawsuits to be filed to
prevent this? the National Trust uh page

880
01:03:18,079 --> 01:03:24,960
actually describes
some of the lawsuits that are sort of

881
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:31,520
being planned if it were to go into
place. And there are a few other sort of

882
01:03:29,359 --> 01:03:37,680
national organizations that are less
philanthropic and more based on um sort

883
01:03:35,119 --> 01:03:42,319
of encouraging preservation. So that
that would really be involved in that

884
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:46,000
that have stronger legal teams. There
are similar organizations to the ones

885
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:52,960
that are currently working on projects
like the uh projects at the White House,

886
01:03:50,960 --> 01:03:56,160
» the demo of the ballroom kind of thing.
Yeah.

887
01:03:53,839 --> 01:04:00,160
» Gotcha.
>> And um things like the the arch and that

888
01:03:59,039 --> 01:04:04,640
type of
>> the OB.

889
01:04:03,039 --> 01:04:09,039
» All right. I have one more comment on
any of that at this point.

890
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:13,680
» Just just to be aware, I've been keeping
an eye on it. Um, and I will continue to

891
01:04:11,839 --> 01:04:18,319
keep an eye on it and if anything gets
updated that really directly affects us

892
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:21,200
here, I'll make sure everyone knows.
>> Great. Thank you very much.

893
01:04:19,599 --> 01:04:27,520
» That's all I've got.
>> Great. Um, new business. Any questions

894
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:37,680
from the commission?
>> Nope.

895
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:41,119
» If not, um, I get motion to adjourn.
I'll make motion to adjurnn.

896
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:46,760
» Second.
>> All in favor? I.

897
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:46,760
» Anyone oppose? No.

898
01:04:46,814 --> 01:04:48,834
[music]