Good evening, I'd like to call to order
this public hearing for the council for
the Borough of Gettysburg.
Monday, February 2nd, 2026, 6:30 p.m.
Um we do need to record a roll call of
everybody in the room. Uh so we will
start over here with Sergeant Evans.
We'll go around
the table this way. And then we need to
work our way back and forth through the
gallery. Everybody needs to say their
name out loud, please.
Um Sergeant Evans, please.
>> Sergeant Christopher Evans.
>> Thank you.
>> Mayor Chad Alencar.
» Kimberly Myers.
>> William Mooney.
>> Chris Berger.
>> Alicia Sanders.
>> Matthew Moon.
» Peter Bales.
>> Jeff Rio.
>> Sarah Stoll, Borough Secretary.
>> Charles Gable, Borough Manager.
>> John Whitmore, Planning Director.
>> Chad Clebowicz, Engineer.
>> All right. Uh Ella, would you mind
stating your name for the records in the
hearing, please?
>> Yeah.
Elizabeth Prieto.
>> Thank you.
>> Stacey Steffan.
>> All right, over here, please.
>> Harlan Lawson.
>> Alaina Murray.
>> Thank you.
And then in the back.
Thank you.
>> Jennifer Daniels.
>> Thank you.
>> Cindy Small.
>> Carolyn Waggaman.
>> Mary Grace Kaufman.
>> Troy Dean.
>> Kelly O'Connor.
>> All right. Did we miss anybody? Did
everybody state their name and is
everybody signed in?
All right, thank you all.
Um
Mr. Lawson, would you like to take the
podium?
>> Thank you.
» [snorts]
» Are you ready for me to start my
presentation?
>> Certainly.
>> Great.
So my name is Harlan Lawson. I work with
GMS Funding Solutions. I'm assisting the
Adams County Children's Advocacy Center
with their brighter tomorrow center
renovations project.
Um I'd like to first start out by
thanking the borough staff for their
collaboration and coordination getting
this meeting scheduled and then
rescheduled with the weather event we we
received about a week ago. I appreciate
you all your efforts on that front.
Each year approximately 12% of the um
state's CDBG allocation is set aside for
the discretionary CDBG program.
Any eligible Act 179 entitlement borough
like Gettysburg is able to apply to that
program if 75% or more of their most
recent entitlement allocation is
approved for a project.
Um as we were we were fortunate enough
to be selected for the borough's FY 2025
entitlement allocation
and that unlocks our ability to apply.
So as a follow-up to that we would like
to um submit a $1.2 million request to
the discretionary CDBG program,
sometimes referred to as the competitive
CDBG program, for the brighter tomorrow
center renovation project.
The CAC is currently um located at 450
West Middle Street where they provide a
limited number of services. Those
services are limited to what they could
provide due to layout and security
constraints. The renovations at 224
Baltimore Street will provide ample room
to accommodate the CAC's wide array of
programs and services including child
abuse investigations, forensic
interviews, medical exams and clinical
care, and mental health services.
The project itself is eligible under the
areas benefiting low and moderate income
persons national objective
via the limited clientele category
as abused children are considered a
presumed benefit population.
Any renovations or improvements
constructed at the facility will
directly expand the CA's the CAC's
ability to provide services to that
presumed benefit population.
Since our last presentation, we were
fortunate to receive $500,000 from the
local share account grant towards the
project. This was a grant program that
we applied for
in 2024 and we were awarded funds
towards the end of 2025.
We also toured the DCED Deputy Secretary
Rick Valello
at the facility in January and received
very encouraging feedback from the
Deputy Secretary on the project's
competitiveness for the discretionary
CDBG program.
So with that, on behalf of the
Children's Advocacy Center, I'd like to
respectfully request that the Borough
Council entertain a resolution to apply
to the competitive CDBG program for $1.2
million
for the Brighter Tomorrows Center
Renovations project and I'm happy to
answer any questions that the the
Council may have
on that request. Thank you.
>> All right. Um,
do we ask questions in a hearing? I
don't think we do, do we?
>> No.
Um, so alas, we are not able to ask you
any questions this evening, but for the
folks who came in, do please record your
names for us. Thank you.
Um
Is there any other information we need
to discuss at this moment?
>> Just a procedural matter. If you do have
questions,
you would be able to ask those at the
formal business meeting, which will be
after this.
>> Right.
All right. So at this point, we are here
to accept public comment on this
application.
Thank you, Mr. Mr. Lawson. So is there
anybody here who would like to speak for
or against this intended use?
» Can I We weren't
expecting to say anything, but we're all
here
in support.
>> Okay. Did anybody You to make a
statement?
This is a public hearing, so we're here
to hear your your statements.
» This is a prior board member, but
>> I know. [laughter] I know, Irene. I
know.
We need you to state your name and your
address, please.
>> My name is Irene Powell.
And I live at 212 Springs Avenue.
Uh
a few houses down from Matt and around
the corner from Chris.
Um I'm a not a current board member, but
I have been for 6 years and I'll come
back again in June.
We've been working on this quest
for many years because the Children's
Advocacy Center has long outgrown the
capacity of their current location
on Middle Street.
So, this is
a greatly needed thing for all of the
children in this county
and their caregivers.
And it's it's really really important.
But, I do want to add
this is a really neat old building
right on Baltimore Street
and we're going to comply and fully
intend to have it
face the community the way it has for
I don't know how many years. And it's
one of the only properties that has a
front lawn.
So, we're going to take good care to
preserve everything as best as possible
and be an integral part of the whole
downtown community, participate in
celebrations,
be present. We will be there for
everybody. I just wanted to add that
little bit. Thank you.
>> Thank you, Irene.
Is there any other statements?
» Hello. Thank you for the opportunity to
speak. I'm Cindy Small. I'm the vice
president of the board of the Children's
Advocacy Center. And I think it might be
important to point out what might happen
if we are not able to move into this
expanded space. Currently, we're really
able to to
with utmost privacy
serve one child at a time in the old
overstuffed house
uh we are grateful for this house and
for the members of the community that
started the CAC over 20 years ago. But
what we have done as an organization
is we've grown from a service that
provides the very basic most required
services for these children in the
immediate time where they may need to uh
be seen or have to make an appearance in
court
to working with these children as they
grow into teenagers and into adults. We
are with them for life, we tell them. We
do not discharge
these children at the end of a forensic
interview or at the end of mental health
services. We tell them and their
families, which is another extension of
what we do, that we uh will provide
these services. Therefore, this house
that we would be
uh rehabilitating
will also provide support services for
the families. We have um
support groups for teenagers
that goes, let's say if it extends for 6
weeks, we've had the teenagers in the
support groups ask us if they could stay
for another 6 weeks because of the
difference that it provides for them in
their lives. So I guess it is really an
example of the fact that we've expanded
our services to encompass these young
children and their families as they grow
so that they can be healthy adults in
our community
and can appreciate a good life because
of us being able to have the room to
provide the extra services that are
really important for them to move
forward. Thank you for the opportunity.
>> All right, thank you.
Uh for everybody who just entered the
room, we are in the middle of a hearing.
If you intend to stay in the room, we do
need you to sign in at the podium.
Is there any further public comment?
Thank you.
» Hi, I'm Alida Murray, the executive
director of the Adams County Children's
Advocacy Center and uh the hopeful executive director of the
Future Bright Tomorrow's Center. So, I
thought um you know, I've got our board
members here doing a wonderful job of
explaining what the what the value is
long-term to the community, but I
thought it would be helpful
in the here and now to give you a sense
of the numbers that we are talking about
in terms of what's happening within our
Adams County community. So, in 2025, the
Adams County Children's Advocacy Center
conducted received referrals for 538
referrals across Adams County.
We served at our little one child at a
time center at 450 West Middle Street
244 children accompanied by their family
members, meaning their non-offending
caregivers and their siblings or other
family members. So, think about in the
scope of a year one at a time 244
children walk through our doors.
Um and what an amazing difference it
would make to have be able to be able to
provide an additional level of support
for who however many of those other
remaining of the 538 kids who we weren't
able to serve.
Um
to put a number on it in terms of
Gettysburg and Gettysburg um
the Gettysburg area, the areas um that
is served by Gettysburg area school
district, 24% of our kids come from
Gettysburg area school district
residences. So, the um in terms of what
the borough and the and the kind of
surrounding areas, that's 24% of the
service continuum here in Adams County
to put a reference on that. So, um yes,
the decision, if you were to make the
decision and I hope you do to um
to approve this resolution, it's not
just a today decision, but it's a
forever decision for kids in Adams
County. So, thank you for your
consideration.
>> Thank you. Any further public comment?
All right, seeing none, we will adjourn
to our next special meeting.
business meeting for the Borough Council
for the Borough of Gettysburg for
Monday, February 2nd, 2026 6:50 p.m.
that we are commencing at 6:44 p.m.
All right. Uh so, we only have one
matter of business before us here, and
that is a potential resolution to
support uh this this application for
grant funding. Uh Mr. Whitmer, could you
please give us the pertinent facts?
» This is a complement to the prior FY2025
CDBG project. It's basically the you
you've uh
they've been able to attain a certain
level of funding through the um
uh the guaranteed funds associated with
being a state entitlement community.
Uh this will allow them to then stretch
the dollars to the 1.2 million as
presented earlier at the public hearing.
Um specific project um
details and such I would recommend
asking the applicant specific questions.
>> Okay.
So, a little background for council
members. Uh last year we did vote to
allocate our CDBG funds for the year uh
to this project.
Um I'm going to sort of loosely
paraphrase the story, but essentially
what we are providing them is seed money
to begin their actual fundraising
campaign. They needed to establish that
they had the support and the financial
support of the municipality to open up
this other funding stream for them.
So, if we were to adopt this resolution
this evening, what we would be doing is
continuing um
to help them find the funding they need.
Um I don't believe we're actually voting
to contribute any additional funds
ourselves at this point. Is that
correct? All right.
Does anybody have any questions for Mr.
Lawson?
Okay. Would anybody care to make the
motion?
>> I will.
>> Um Matt, do we have to do It says public
comment before.
>> Oh, you're right. I'm so sorry.
Uh is there any public comment before we
do that?
>> I'm so sorry. Thank you.
>> Okay.
Would anybody care to make that
resolution?
>> Sure.
Going to read from the board.
Um a motion to adopt resolution number
0122626
authorizing the submission of an
application to the Pennsylvania
Department of Community and Economic
Development by the Borough of Gettysburg
for grant funding through the
competitive Community Development Block
Grant CB CDBG-C
program to support the Adams County
Children's Advocacy Center Writer
Tomorrow's Center renovation project at
224 Baltimore Street within the Borough
of Gettysburg. Charles R. Gable, MPA,
Borough Manager and Sarah L. Stoll,
Borough Secretary are are authorized to
sign, attest, execute, and deliver any
necessary application forms and
documents required for the submission of
the CDBG-C Grant Program application.
>> Is there a second?
>> Second.
>> We have a motion and a second. Is there
any discussion?
All those in favor, please say I.
>> I.
Any opposed?
All right, that motion carries. Is there
any additional public comment on this
matter?
All right, thank you all. We are
adjourned.
Good evening, everybody. I'd like to
call to order
this workshop for the Borough of
Gettysburg Borough Council
for February 2nd, 2026.
We do have a very full room tonight, so
I just like to remind everybody, please
make sure you've signed in at the door,
particularly if you intend to speak this
evening.
And what a lovely moment this would be
for everybody to silence their phones.
Okay.
Uh couple announcements.
An executive session was conducted by
the Borough Council of the Borough of
Gettysburg immediately following the
adjournment of its monthly general
business meeting held on January 12th,
2026, consistent with Section of the
Sunshine Act.
An executive session of the Borough
Council will be conducted immediately
following the adjournment of this
evening's monthly work session meeting,
consistent with Section 708 A1, Section
708 A5 of the Sunshine Act, for the
following purposes. One, to provide
updated information and to discuss
matters involving the employment or
appointment of current or prospective
Borough employees, and two, to review
and discuss matters of Borough business,
which if conducted in public could lead
to the disclosure of information or
confidentiality protected by law.
Uh we do not have any special
presentations this evening, so we'll
move directly into our first public
comment section of the evening. This
section is reserved for items appearing
on tonight's agenda.
Uh we ask that you use the podium, speak
directly into the microphone, please
state your name and your address of
residence,
and please limit yourself to 5 minutes.
If you do approach the 5-minute mark, I
will ask you to conclude your thoughts
as it seems there might be multiple
people who would like to speak this
evening.
Uh is there any public comment?
» [snorts]
» Since everyone's storming, I'll go
first.
>> Thank you.
>> [clears throat]
>> My name is Miranda Weiser. My home
address is 30 Musket Drive, Gettysburg.
My work address is 140 Baltimore Street,
where I am the executive director of the
Adams County Library System.
First, I want to recognize and thank the
many library supporters that are in the
audience this evening. So, thank you for
coming out and supporting us.
Community members with I'm speaking to
uh number of 300 new business PB 222-4,
the expansion of the historic district.
Community members with close connection
to HARB have approached us at the
library to tell us that this is a move
to control the library's future
development plans on the south side of
the seminary campus, and in doing so,
perhaps usurp the Borough Council's
authority.
While I don't want to speculate to the
validity of these rumors or why anyone
would want to injure the economic
liberty of an institution
dedicated to to the public good, the
functional outcome of this expansion
will be exactly what the rumors assert.
This change will make future development
for the library system
and any other property owner in the area
significantly more challenging and
expensive.
The properties and landmarks of genuine
historic significance within this area
are already preserved through the
Seminary Ridge Historic Preservation
Foundation.
And view shed protections from the
National Park Service.
These those structures in the area that
merit historic Civil War era oversight
currently fall within the existing
harbor responsibilities.
Expanding the district further would
therefore create overlapping layers of
regulation without providing meaningful
additional preservation benefits.
Instead, such an expansion would have
negative consequences.
It will significantly restrict
development, rehabilitation, and
adaptive reuse, particularly for
buildings constructed in the 1960s and
1970s
that do not possess the same historic
character or significance of other
protected buildings.
These structures require flexibility for
modernization in order to remain
functional, economically viable, and
align with the contemporary building
standards of today.
Imposing historic regulations on these
later era buildings would discourage
investment, slow redevelopment, and
hinder the area's ability to evolve
responsibly.
Preservation and progress are not
mutually exclusive.
And the current framework
existing already strikes a reasonable
balance between protecting truly
historic assets while allowing
appropriate growth elsewhere.
For these reasons, I urge the council to
deny the proposed expansion exploration
and to maintain the existing historic
district boundaries. Doing so will
preserve our community's heritage
without unnecessarily constraining
development, modernization,
or economic vitality. Thank you.
>> Thank you.
Public comment.
» Good evening. My name is Judy Morley. My
home address is 1210 White Church Road,
Gettysburg. My work address is 61
Seminary Ridge,
Gettysburg. I am the president of the
Seminary Ridge Historic Preservation
Foundation. I am also the author of um
several books and articles on historic
preservation policy, and it is what I
got my doctoral dissertation what I did
my doctoral dissertation on. My books
are still required reading in city
planning
uh curricula throughout the United
States. I don't say that to brag. I say
that to say that I stand before you
today as someone who understands the
balance between historic preservation
and development. And there must always,
for a community to stay vital, there
must always be a balance between
historic preservation and development.
When you lose that balance, you get
Disneyland or you get Colonial
Williamsburg.
And we are a community where people live
and work as well as come to visit.
So, the Seminary Ridge area already has
multiple layers of protection, as
Miranda referenced. Not only are we the
Seminary Ridge Historic Preservation
Foundation, but our Civil War era
buildings are part of the Harb
Ordinance. So, Schmucker Hall, Schmucker
House, and Crap House are already
protected by Harb. Um
we have National Park Service view shed
uh
requirements. We have an American
Battlefield Trust easement on our
property. And of course, the
constrictions of any zoning within the
Borough of Gettysburg. And so, that
property is already well protected. I
believe that if the expansion of the
historic district goes through, that it
will tip the balance from a healthy
balance between preservation and
community development to one that is
overly bureaucratically weighted toward
preservation when not really necessary.
So, I too urge that the borough council
do not uh consider the expansion of the
historic district into Seminary Ridge.
Thank you.
>> Thank you. Public comment.
» [clears throat]
>> My name is Janelle Woodsberger.
Um my home address is 3359 East Lincoln
Avenue in Gettysburg. My work address is
300 North Washington Street.
I'm speaking this evening against HARB's
recommendation to create a new Seminary
Ridge Historic District. Imposing new uh
{quote} guiding principles, as HARB
claims, is just not necessary at this
gateway. More importantly, new
restrictions are likely to negatively
impact the construction of the new
Gettysburg Public Library in that area
of town. The benefits of having a
purpose-built modern library available
to our citizens far outweigh the
architectural value of dormitories built
in the mid-20th century, which are
riddled with environmental problems that
will be very expensive to remediate.
Furthermore, the Seminary has expressed
no interest in remediating them as their
institution undergoes changes in student
population after the merger. HARB's
recommendation is simply unnecessary at
the structure. Thank you.
>> Thank you.
Public comment.
When we have these pauses, don't be shy.
We can line folks up. That's not a problem. So.
» Uh good evening. Um my name is Todd
Maritz. I live on 61 East Broadway in
Gettysburg.
Um I've lived in the borough for more
than 30 years and then the county for
more than 50 years.
I'm a library member.
Uh I've been a library member for most
of that time and a board member for more
than 10 years.
All the other branches of the library
system have dedicated buildings that I
believe except for New Oxford, but that
includes Biglerville and East Berlin.
Gettysburg does not. When I first came
here, the library was in this building,
the old prison. Um
it's been beautifully repurposed,
but um
and then the library moved to the post
office, which is also not a library
building.
So, um
after many years of thought and
discussion about what the library should do, whether it
should stay where it is or move, um it's
the the decision has been to
uh to move to the area by the seminary,
uh which though I believe the library
has purchased. I don't know the
financial
uh
what the uh
how what the outcome would be if if this
were prevented, because I think
if the historic district were expanded
as proposed, it would prevent the
construction of the new library.
I strongly oppose that and uh it makes
no sense. It would result in a
tremendous financial and social cost to
the community.
The library is one of the most important
institutions in this in this community.
Um it serves the central library in
Gettysburg serves not only the borough,
but I believe Straban and Cumberland
Townships, which do not have their own
library.
So, more than 75,000 people walk into
the library every year.
Um
and as you know uh uh
parking is a a huge problem. The new
library would
um
alleviate that problem.
Um please don't prevent um the the move
of the library to
the proposed location. Thanks very much.
>> Thank you, Don.
Public comment.
Please don't be shy.
» Good evening, members of council. My
name is Brandon Stone. I live at 358
Park Street and I'm the chairman of
HARB.
Thank you.
I just wanted to briefly note that at
our December meeting, the Historic
Architectural Review Board voted
unanimously to recommend the creation of
the Seminary Ridge Historic District.
This proposal includes the Lutheran
Seminary and the surrounding properties
along 116 in West Confederate Avenue,
which together form one of the borough's
primary historic entry corridors.
This recommendation follows the same
rationale used by this council in 1999
when the historic district was extended
to protect the key with gateways into
the borough.
The Seminary Ridge represents the last
remaining unprotected entry of that
kind.
Tonight, no action is required.
The intent was simply to make the
council and the public aware that the
recommendation is complete
and available should we wish to continue
it as this year's priorities for
council,
including the upcoming chapter 11
ordinance updates and recommendations to
update the design guides. Together,
working with the public, we can identify
this as It's priority.
Thank you.
>> Thank you, sir.
Public comment.
» [clears throat]
» Good evening. My name is Angela Soma. I
live at 44 Winding Drive in Gettysburg.
And I am speaking in opposition to the
expansion of the historic district. As
has been mentioned, the important
historic buildings in that area are
already preserved. And as also has been
mentioned, the library is a critical
institution to this area and to this
town. But it is in woeful need of
modernization. And they do need a new
building. As was mentioned, parking is a really is really terrible at the
library. And I think it's important that
there not be more impediments put into
place to creating a a more modern,
bigger library that can serve the
community better. Thank you.
>> Thank you.
Public comment.
» Good evening to you all.
My name is Teresa Smallwood. I am the
Dean and Vice President for Academic
Affairs at United Lutheran Seminary.
I had absolutely no intention of
speaking tonight, but once I heard the
gentleman say there was no need to take
action, it just warmed my heart.
I live in Craft House. I've been there
for almost 5 years.
There is no more preserved institution
than what lies on Seminary Ridge.
And my concern is as a resident and
someone who lives there,
I want to see this library come about.
Because it is the young people. It
is the folk who come to our institution
who will benefit the most.
More particularly, we need to be
concerned about the intergenerational
interest we have in developing our young
people to grow up and appreciate reading
again. Thank you.
>> Thank you, ma'am.
» Good evening. My name is Rob Williams.
Um I'm an employee of Seminary Ridge
Museum and Education Center um located
at 61 Seminary Ridge, Gettysburg. I'm
also a member of the Board of Trustees
of the Adams County Library System. Um I
would like just like to mention um and
um remind that after a survey from the
Adams County Historical Society, um they
did note that the location of the
proposed location of the new library
is of no historical significance. Uh so,
there is no um reason for the Historical
Society to believe that that library
should not be built there. And uh to my
knowledge, the the um library project
does currently enjoy the full support of
the Historical Society. I would also
like to note, to my knowledge, um none
of the organizations in question,
whether it's the seminary, the library,
or our museum, were approached by any
members of HARB for our consideration on
this on this proposal.
Thank you.
>> Thank you, sir.
Any more public comment?
Last chance?
All right, we'll move on. Thank you.
Um
It is correct, we will not be taking any
action tonight. Um
one of the legislative priorities that
the council has set for this year is to
uh take a deep dive on potentially
repealing and replacing the HARB
ordinance with something a little bit uh
more contemporary and um easy to
navigate. Um
Every time we change an ordinance, there
is a significant cost to the borough.
So, it is unlikely that we would
consider making a change to an ordinance
that we are about to scrap. So, if
that's the way council decides to go
with it. So, while the um
discussion will be had by council at
some point this year, we're not going to
be acting on this anytime soon. In fact,
tonight's meeting is a workshop where we
simply discuss ideas. Um we will not be
taking any votes this evening.
Uh I'd like to hand this over now to Mr.
Whitmore, who will make his presentation
on uh the harb issues before us.
>> So, good evening. Um
we do have materials that were provided
electronically.
Overall, the uh policy briefing summary
provides the gist. There's two separate
themes that have been, I guess, running
with this that aren't necessarily
related. A, the need to update chapter
11 historic districts, the actual
ordinance text, and the associated
Gettysburg design guide, which was last
published in 1997.
Um we've reached a point where these
documents are becoming obsolete. In
particular, as the solicitor, Mr.
Eastman, has indicated, there are some
were issues with the um previous draft
of the ordinance. There have been
modifications made by council to that
document. But, there are still some
issues associated with the design guide.
Um generally, an update of this
magnitude would involve services of um
a, I guess, a professional associated
with an architectural firm that has
experience in documenting in historic
properties. In particular, um
we want to make sure that the design
guide that we're establishing for the
borough is something that's not only
defensible for the bureau, but is also
in keeping with Pennsylvania State
Historic Preservation Office guidelines
and the Department of Interior
guidelines as they relate to historic
properties.
Overall,
the
there's that aspect and then the second
aspect being the expansion of the
district. At this time, that's not
something that staff is encouraging. The
district itself is used as a kind of
form-based code to a certain extent,
which were from a I guess the zoning
perspective of it, that may be better
handled
with the subdivision land development
ordinance for some aspects as it relates
to physical block development, the
rhythm and scale of how buildings are
arranged, not necessarily for the
historic district, but it could be
something identified and reviewed.
Overall, though, what we're what staff
is really concerned with is more about
the design guide ordinance itself. Um
Yes, at this time, we've presented we
provide you all with the information
provided by HARB at their December
meeting recommending study be produced
for the expansion or creation of a new
district. Um overall, when we're talking
about districts, it's also important to
remember the entirety of the bureau is
in a federal historic district as it
this is that relates to the
military park. Um
being able to
um
facilitate the development of buildings
within the bureau is something that the
comp plan encourages. It's something
that the
I guess there's there's a want to be
able to establish affordable housing in
the bureau that's also
potentially constrained with expansion.
So, there's a lot of things to consider
on that aspect. It would be something I
don't think um
staff it prepared to do for at this
time, but it is something we can do but
we're not recommending.
A lot a lot of words just came out of
myself, a lot of rambling to a certain
extent, but overall
the
what we were proposing is a process
whereby over a period of about the end
of this year, we'd probably be able to
have
the ordinance updated relatively quickly
and on a pathway for the design guide,
engaging with HARB in this process, and
then be allowing for public comment
during those meetings.
Overall, this shouldn't be a very taxing
process, but like I said, once if it
becomes necessary to engage the
a professional architect in these their
services, then we'll be able to evaluate
any potential grant funding through uh
SHPO.
So.
>> All right. Questions for Mr. Wilmer.
All right.
Uh so, we had previously been counseled
by our solicitor that um perhaps we can
look to some sort of uh model ordinance,
uh something that is derived directly
from the empowering state legislation.
Um we
our uh ordinance goes back about
60 years-ish
and has had
um
multiple revisions and iterations that
sometimes conflict, which is is causing
issues. So, uh we think there's probably
a path for a much um
simpler approach to this, so that is
something uh Mr. Whitmore, I believe,
will be digging into with the solicitor
in the coming months.
Um
in the uh interim, I would ask that
members continue to identif- um
familiarize yourselves with um
documentation as it's provided to you.
Um
it would be beneficial that we all
understand the full
uh history of HARB within the borough.
Um any questions for Mr. Whitmore?
Anything else from you?
>> Uh, that's all on this topic. Thank you.
>> Thank you. Uh, Mr. Claybaugh.
» Oh, man, he's going to the podium.
So, I'm going to talk to you about
street work. And before I get started,
I'm guessing that majority of the people
in this room are not here to listen to
me talk about street work. So, I won't
be offended at all if you get up in the
middle of my presentation.
No, I I love street work, and I hope you
do, too, but I won't be upset.
>> Okay, stand up.
>> [laughter]
» I didn't want this to be this awkward
where somebody gets upset.
>> [laughter]
» But, you need streets to get to the
library.
>> Yeah, you do need streets to get to the
library,
and to all of our historic districts.
So, so, um,
the the main reason for my presentation
today is because on your agenda next
week, I'm going to be asking for an
authorization to advertise the 2026
street work. So, I wanted to go over a
little bit what uh the scope of that
project, talk to you about a few changes
I'd like to make to the scope um from
what was in your 2026 budget, and um
kind of go over the schedule of the
project for you. So, just kind of tee
you up for the decision that you need to
make next week.
So, first we'll talk about the budget.
Um,
what you had in your budget is this
number right here, the 363,000.
And that incorporated two different
things. It was It was $284,000
worth of street preservation, base
repair, that those kind of things, and
also the $79,000
um for the Steinwehr crosswalks. Uh two
different
budget items in your budget, but we put
them all together and we bid them all
together. Now, here's the complicated
part is that we actually bid the
crosswalks with the base repairs that go
with the street because it's like type
of work for contractors separate from
the preservation. The preservation that
we propose is this is there's there's
crack sealing and then we put down a
high-performance chip seal, which is
a glorified chip seal with with
high-performance chips that lock
together a little bit better. They don't
whip off so much. They're used in
downtown settings and not like state
roads out in farmland. Um and then we
cover those high high-performance chips
with this fog seal. And that's really
the secret behind this this preservation
treatment is this uh we call it a a
griptight is is the
formal name. Generic name is fog seal.
Um but we cover that with this
griptight. We've done this in a lot of
streets in the past.
Um Ridge, Howard, Washington High. Those
are a few streets that we've done. And this is kind of a tried-and-true
practice and we're we're really happy
with it. Um so that's what we'd like to
do again. There's only a certain amount
of contractors that do this. There's
only three that I know of. We had Martin
that did it 5 years ago. AMS does it.
Russell Standard. Um so we kind of bid
that separately because we know what
kind of contractors that come in and do
the preservation. We bid that separate
from all the rest of the street work. Um
so that's kind of how this presentation
is going to go. I'm going to talk to you
a little bit about this $120,000 another
line item and then I'll talk to you
about the the Steinwehr crosswalks and
then I'll go back to the preservation.
Now, the streets that are in this
$120,000 line item and the streets that
are in the preservation are the exact
same streets.
So before we put the preservation down,
we first fix all the potholes, all of
the base repairs, and then we come
through and make the whole thing black.
So again, you what what you have
budgeted is 600 or or 363,000.
If you add up all of these numbers, you
get to 348,000.
>> [clears throat]
>> So, we're a little bit under the budget,
and one of the questions I'm going to
have for you at the end of this is
whether you want me to bid it this way,
or do you want me to add one of the
streets that I cut from this to be able
to get below the budget, and that's
Constitution. I'll get to that later in
the conversation.
>> [clears throat]
>> Okay, so here's the streets. Um this top
list of streets here is in your 2026
budget.
The bottom list of streets is what I'd
like to change it to.
This top list First, let me go back and
say that this list of streets is
something that Robbie and I developed
over 5 years ago. When we developed the capital improvement plan, our CIP, 5
years ago, that's where a large amount
of these streets came from, and we just
basically cut and pasted that into your
2026 budget. Um
A lot of things have changed since 5
years ago. There's utility work, you
know, Columbia Gas does some stuff, we
do some curb ramps, so there's some
reasons why we wanted to change a couple
of things. Plus, some of those streets
have degraded to a point where it just
doesn't make sense to do them with a
preservation anymore.
Um and then there was one Locust here
that were that we're adding. So, the the
things that are in red are the streets
I'd like to cut from the list. The
things that are in green are the the
street that I would like to add to the
list. So, Fourth Street, the reason I
want to cut that from the list is
because it's an $83,000
line item just for the base repair, and
then the preser- preservation is another
17,000. It's close to $100,000
to preserve that street. For $100,000,
you could basically mill and overlay
that street. Brand new hot mix asphalt,
not a preservation treatment. Um
and the reason why it's so expensive is
because the base has in the past 5 years
failed to a point where it's about 50%
of it that needs to be replaced. There's
some details over here that just show
you the different methods of base repair
that we do. We basically mill out that
the bad areas, there's potholes, and
replace them with hot mix asphalt before
we make the whole thing black.
Whenever you get to close to 50% of the
street, it doesn't make sense
financially
to do that anymore. Then it's better
just to bring in a big milling machine
and just do the entire street. So, I
like to cut that one for that reason.
And the And by the way, the the cost
estimate that I gave you on the previous
slide already excluded these these red
line items.
Constitution, I would I'm going to come
back to that one. We We cut that one out
of there to get below the budget, but
I'm not so sure that I want to remove
that one. That might one I might be
want to stick back in, but I I'll talk
to you about the budget for that one
later. And then the last one is Queen
Street. The reason why we want to cut
that one is because Columbia Gas has
come to us and they want to do a
significant significant amount of work
in Cool Park. Um and they're going to be
chopping up that street. So, it doesn't
make sense for us to put any money into
it now.
And then lastly, um down here is Locust
Avenue. So, this is the the street that
right at the bottom of Hillcrest.
Everybody knows where Hillcrest is and
Locust. Locust comes right off of of uh
Baltimore Street and intersects at the
bottom of the hill at Hillcrest.
Whenever we did the preservation on
Hill- Hillcrest 5 years ago, um we
included Locust. I'm not sure why that
wasn't included in the list this time,
but it makes sense for those two to stay
together. And it's not extreme uh uh
a lot a lot of money to do that one.
$85,000 to add that one.
So, those are the change- changes I
would like to make in the scope.
Um
Whenever we do preservation, there is a
couple of things that we keep in mind,
too. We don't necessarily have to do
curb ramps with preservations. Um that
is not a a a federal requirement, but
there are some places where it makes
sense. Um
In that list was Washington Street and
Stratton Street. So, this is the
intersection. This is Stratton here, and
this is Washington Street here. And if
you ever come to this intersection, this
inlet right here is real low. This
curb ramp sits um
sits full of water. There's a puddle of
water right here at this intersection.
And then And then just down from this
intersection is this curb ramp and this
one sits full of water. Uh
we didn't have a whole lot of control
whenever this project when it came in,
this is a Columbia Gas related project.
If you ever go down West
Middle Street, the south side of the
sidewalks are brand new.
The north side aren't. And that's
because Columbia Gas came in and put a
brand new gas line down the south side.
So we got a free gift. We got a brand
new sidewalks from Columbia Gas down
that side, but we didn't have a whole
lot of control over these. And this is a
typical thing whenever the curb ramps,
they have to come in flush. The new law
says that they have to be flush. You
know, they don't have them raised at
all. So it's a common thing where they
get them in too low and then they sit
full of water. We would like to make
those adjustments. Anytime you do a
preservation, you're making a street
good again,
drainage is a very important thing. In my paving courses in college
actually,
um the first three three lessons that my
professor gave us was drainage, drainage. It's always fix the
drainage first and then you fix the rest
of the street. So these things are
related to drainage. So we would like to do those couple of things. Get this
just the just the dome area of those
curb ramps, just the dome area of this,
and this inlet changed a little bit. And
I think there's a couple more. So this
is Stratton Street here as well. The
water comes down the street here and it
misses it. There's a it's like raised up
right here a little bit too high. And
then that's one of my pet peeves is
whenever we spend all this money to put
these inlets in and the water doesn't
even get in the inlets, just goes right
around. And then that intersection sits
full of water and it gets icy. Um it's
not a major issue, but while we're doing
this, now's the time to fix it.
The the solution to this is really easy.
Just mill the pavement down a little bit
on the side before we put the
preservation down.
Um and this is also a Middle Street. If
you go down West Middle Street, you
might have hit this with your tires. Um
I know Robbie hits it often with his
snow plows. It's only 5 years old and
it's already showing signs of distress
from the snow plow hit get hitting it.
So before we again before we do Middle
Street, we'd like to just lower that
inlet a couple of inches.
>> [clears throat]
>> Um now as like I said, it goes with all
of those the street work that's the uh
the Mill and Fill areas is these
crosswalks. And just a council just as a
refresher to the council that was here
last year and
an update to the new council members, we
did bid this project last year.
We bid the replacement of the two
crosswalks. It's It's this one here in
front of This is the Dobbin House.
is sitting on this side.
So, this is the crosswalk in the Dobbin
House and this is the one right in front
of Tommy's Pizza. So, that's the two
crosswalks I'm going to talk about. We
bid them last year. We only got one
bidder and our bids were really high. We
kind of bid it late in the season. I'm
thinking that's why we
our
We got high prices, but for whatever
reason it didn't fit our budget. So, we
excluded that from the work we did. It
was actually 2 years It wasn't last
year. It was 2 years ago. We excluded
that from the work and now we're back to
back around a new cycle street work and
we'd like to add it back in. We still
have a highway occupancy permit from the
state. We've been extending our permit.
We are extended through this year. So,
as long as we do the work this year,
we're still within that same permit. Um
but we would like to go ahead and try to
replace place these two. Um One of the
issues with this crosswalk is there used
to be these in-road lights that flashed
whenever you pushed a button there was
in-road lights that flashed, but they
were problematic. Um every time a
snowplow hit them, they would knock the
lights out and they were very expensive
to replace. Um so, those have been
removed and whenever they got removed,
they weren't done great and now the
whole thing's starting to fail.
So, we would like to replace that
crosswalk and then the other one is this
one and pretty obvious um
distress here in the street um on that
western lane mostly
um that needs to be cut out. So, the
base the base repair is this line right
here. So, you'd cut out all that base
the bed area before we do the crosswalk.
Uh whenever we did those crosswalks,
they were done with an imprint material.
Now, we would like to use an a material
that's called um StreetPrint XD. The
Tawney Town Road, which is this
intersection way up here, and then also
this other Steinwehr leg has a
StreetPrint XD. It looks very similar to
this one, but they're holding up way
better. It's just a better procedure in
my in my opinion. So, that's how we
intend to do these. So, that's the same
thing that we bid 2 years ago. It's
exactly the same thing now, exact same
price. That's That's not changing in
your budget at all. I'm just letting you
know that that's included in here. The
only other thing I wanted to say about
that is that's what's driving the
schedule here. We would like to and the
reason I'm coming to so so soon in the
season to get this out in the street is
because we hoping to get this thing bid
sooner to get better bid results and to
beat a lot of the 250th anniversary
events that are happening this summer.
So, we're hoping if we
if if you authorize me to advertise this
next week, I'll have bids ready for you
to consider at your March meeting and
then hopefully go to construction as
soon as April, maybe May at the latest
and beat a lot of the 250th anniversary
things.
So, we're back to the list of streets.
This is exactly the same street list
that I showed you earlier. Now, we're
just talking about the preservation.
That's the crack sealing, this chip
seal, this high performance chip seal,
and the and the grip tight salt fog
seal. Um this is a a map just showing
you the streets that we were talking
about before. Um
I was showing you that we wanted to
eliminate This is Queen Street that we
wanted to eliminate. I want to talk to
you a little bit more about
Constitution. As you can see,
Constitution is a pretty long street. Um
so, keep that in mind as we get to the
next slide. And then,
uh 4th Street right here, I'd like to
eliminate that one. And then,
like I said earlier, Locust. This is
next to Hillcrest.
But, that's just to show you on a map of
all the streets that we're coming
working on.
Okay, so this is a very similar slide to
the first slide. It's exactly that what
you have in your budget, $263,000.
I showed you all of the streets that I'd
like to do is $348,000.
Um so, we got a little bit of a balance,
uh $14,000. So, you kind of have three
options here. It's either say yes Chad,
I'd like you to go ahead and
advertise it excluding Constitution.
We'll keep the $14,000 in our budget for
something else. If you have a lot of
other expenses that you're you're
getting hit with, maybe you tell me that
that's what you wanted me to do.
You might tell me, "No Chad, I want you
to add Constitution
um and we're we're going to bite the
bullet and we're going to increase the
budget to to to pay for that as well."
Or you might say, "Well, we're not sure
yet. Can we bid it as an alternate?"
That's also an option. We can bid
Constitution as an alternate. I would
say only
that
it'll add a little bit of effort from my
end to bid it as an alternate, but not a
lot of money. We're talking about maybe
500 to 1,000 dollars. If you absolutely
are sure that you're not going to want
to do it, just tell me don't do that.
We'll save the 500 bucks. If you want me
to bid it as an alternate, takes a
little bit of time to bid it as an
alternate, but it's not a huge lift. Um
so, you might tell me that, "Just just
go ahead and bid it as an alternate for
now and then we'll decide if we want to
do that once we get bid results." Again,
all of these estimates I'm providing you
are engineers' best guess, right?
They're Once we get the bids in from the
contractor, you'll have another
opportunity to decide on exactly what
streets you want to do.
So,
um
Constitution again is is a it's a pretty
expensive street, right? So, it's a long
street. There's $9,000 worth of base
repairs. Preservation's 38,000 for a
total of 47,000. So, if you wanted to
add the $47,000
to the project, obviously the $14,000 um
but balance isn't going to cover the
full 47,000.
So, that is
it for the street preservation work
unless you guys have any questions for
me.
» Any questions?
Um
Was this Was this under um
what, liquid fuels that we budgeted
this?
» No.
>> I I think the the street preservation
work was liquid fuels, but not the
Steinwehr crosswalks.
>> Okay.
Um
I guess just could you speak a little
bit about like
you know, your pick like why these
streets or why like this one just gets
improvement while this one gets repairs?
Is it just because of the conditions or
like do you have a criteria you go by
for that?
>> Yeah, yeah, certainly. Um so so one of
the things whenever we do um street
maintenance plans is we like to keep the
good streets good. That's kind of the the slang for it. Um if there's a
street that's within
7 to 10 years old before it starts to
degrade to a point where you need to do
a full base repair, you try to do a pre-
preservation treatment. These
preservations only cost about $5 a
square yard. If you have to do a full
replacement, it's $50 a square yard. So
it's 10 times more expensive to replace
a street than to preserve a street. And
you can preserve a street over and over. Every 10 years you can
preserve it again. And you could extend
the life of a street by 100 years if you
kept doing it every 10 years versus
having to wait till it fails. Once it
gets to a point where it's
showing failure like I was talking about
with Fourth Street. That one's to the
point where a preservation isn't going
to help it anymore. The preservation
There's There's all kinds of things that
degrade pavement and a preservation
keeps the pavement from degrading, but
it doesn't fix the base below it. It's
just a It's just a band-aid on the top
es- essentially. Um so everything that
we're doing in this
preservation plan is just that, a
preservation. None of this work is full
replacement. Any Any street that gets to
the point where it's getting to be a
full replacement, we remove those. So
the base repair areas that I'm showing
are small areas. They're just pothole
areas, you know, 5
10-x-20, you know, those kind of things.
And maybe just a straight-line mill right down the
middle if there was a crack down the
middle or those kind of things. It's not
full milling the street out and
completely rebuilding it because again,
that would be $50 a square yard. And if
anybody any any municipality that's only
re- doing the older streets
and taking care and and putting all of
their money into the older streets is
usually falling behind because it's just
dumb and money into those older streets.
It's always better to keep those good
streets good while you can. Does it Does
that answer your question?
>> Yeah, I think so.
Um
for that 14 grand
would you I mean
is there already a contingency line item
built into the initial budget for that?
>> Yeah, yeah. So So like I said, there is
some engineering These are engineers'
estimates. And we do have a little bit
of contingency. I'm going to say about
5%. We don't really know until we get
our bids back. Even once we get our bids
back, I usually say that you should have
a little bit of contingency in your
budget because
you know, as we're doing these base
repairs, we try to estimate them as We
had our inspectors go and look at all
the streets
and get an estimate of how like the
percentage of base repairs that we'd
have to do on the street before we do
the preservation.
Once again, once before we actually go
to construction, we're going to go out
there with our inspectors again. We'll
actually paint out squares on the on the
pavement on the areas that he has to
actually replace. And then we'll pay him
for exactly what he did. So, that whole
process it ebbs and flows a little bit.
So, there is a little bit There's
probably about a 5% contingency I would
have to say in some of the quantities
that we gave you. But I I I hate to give that away too early in the
process because if we get really bad bid
results,
>> Yeah.
>> you know, it might it might be a year
where all of these There's only three of
these contractors that do this and they
might all
just happen to have filled their
schedule and they don't really need any
more work. And all of a sudden, we get
really high bid results. Now, one thing
that is good news so far is that fuel
prices have been step pretty steady to
low
and pavement preservation is highly
dependent on fuel prices or oil prices.
>> Um and then I saw there's like that
little line where it says like March
30th, contract one through May 29th, and
contract two April through May.
Would you try to have like say for the
Steinwehr project where it's high
volume, would you try to have that in
the earlier of that schedule?
>> Yep. Exactly.
>> Okay.
>> Yep, which we would like to try to get
to that one as soon as possible. Now,
you can't start any work on state roads
before April 1st. So, that's part of
what drives that schedule, but as close
to April 1st as possible, we would like
to get Steinwehr done. The rest of the
streets are not going to have as big of
an impact on tourist traffic.
>> Thank you.
>> Sure.
» I just have a quick question.
Um so, um it's sort of about the
contingency um
built in and that was already answered,
but um
suppose that there's close to $14,000
left when you're getting sort of nearing
the end of the project, would you be
able to consider or reconsider some of
the curb ramps that we sort of set
aside?
Um or could you not sort like mix
apples and oranges and and use money
from this budget to take care of some of
the curbs that we
aren't using the CBD?
>> Yeah, I I understand the question. I
think the answer is that it would be
difficult.
I don't think the answer's no. I think
you could, but there are it's I think
you like you said it's a bit apples and
oranges
or apples and
vegetables. Yeah, so it would be it
would be something it would be it would
be a little bit difficult to add it.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Thank you.
» Any thoughts about
>> I'm sorry, go ahead.
>> I might have missed uh
you talking about what would what would
be the benefit of adding Constitution.
Did you originally take that out and
then
you
brought it back in, but
you're hypothetically saying it's going
to be over budget by about 50,000. What
would be the benefit of then doing it
this year and
going over budget to do it is
>> Good question and I don't think you
missed it and so let me be I'll try to explain a little bit better. So,
um
Constitution is one of like just like I
was explaining to Mr. Bales,
if you can keep your good streets good,
that's that's really important.
Constitution is one of those streets
where you can still keep it good. If you
would get a treatment on it soon, it
hasn't shown a lot of base failure. It's
got a decent cross-section. It's not
rutting. It's not blanketing. It's not
um getting polished, uh bleeding out.
It's all of the things that we look for
in pavement um failure. So, it has the characteristics of a street that
could use a preservation to preserve it.
And if you would not preserve it now,
that's a pretty long street um that's
going to cost a lot of money later down
the road. Um
10 times as much later down the road. Um
so,
>> just to interrupt real quick, um
since we
uh as the bids exist now, we're looking
at a $14,000 surplus on the budget line
item. So, if we add in the 40
$7,000 item, then we're looking at a
$33,000 overage.
>> Yeah, and that's and that's exactly
Thank you, Matt. Is that that's exactly
why I was looking for what street could
I cut and get it back within the budget.
And that was the only really big one.
All the rest of them are, you know, five
or $10,000
line items and they weren't getting me
below your budget. That was the one that
I had to chop to get below your budget
and get that $14,000 balance.
>> But you're saying we'll get the cost
savings over time
>> Oh, absolutely. Yes.
>> by
biting the bullet now and saving money
in the future.
>> In in a perfect world, if if I could
give you a you know, and of course my
engineering judgment has to include your
budget. Has to
I got to be the a steward of your of
your finances.
Um
but I would say it's a good use of your
money to preserve Constitution now. So,
in a perfect world, if you could use if
you could do that, too, that would be a good idea.
>> And so, Charles, would we fund the
overage through liquid fuels? And do we
have I I think we have a pretty
substantial liquid fuels balance there,
don't we?
>> we could do it through liquid fuels. We
could do it through capital projects or
just absorb it into the general fund, as
well.
>> We have a pretty significant liquid
fuels balance, right?
>> Over 900.
>> Yeah.
So,
um you know, $33,000 out of a $900,000
fund to preserve a road that's going to
cost us 10 times more if it fails in 10
years. I mean,
what do you guys want to do with that?
>> Um I have maybe a silly question. Is it
possible to split up the improvements
and the preservation, or does that all
have to be done at the same time?
>> Yeah, they kind of go together. Yeah, because the the preservation
itself, um that that Grip Tight fog seal
and that chip seal, doesn't fix any of
the base failure. And the base failures
are kind of underneath. We cut those
areas out, fix them first, and then we
cover the whole street black. So, they
kind of go together.
>> My other question is if you were to do
Constitution Avenue, would that be done
over the summer?
>> All of these things would be done over
the summer, yeah. Yeah. And and
>> With the exception of Steinway.
>> Except for Steinway. Steinway would be
as soon as possible, April April 1st at
the soonest. Um all of the rest of the
things, so because there's two different
contracts that we deal with, the first
contractor if if he comes in to do
Steinway in in the end of April, that
same contractor might go through and do
all of the base repairs and get that
done in April or May, and then contract
two with the street preservation, that
contractor might come not come in until
August or September.
They don't like to do those
preservations into October, but those
could be as late as September.
>> Right. Yeah, I guess with Constitution I
was just like I walk on Constitution
every single day. Like that's super busy
for the college. Um
so just thinking we could do it when the
college is out of session.
>> Absolutely. Yeah, and that is something
that we work closely with with Jim
Bisecker on any street work we do and
make sure that we're coordinating with
his events and try to try to avoid
freshmen are moving back in and that
kind of thing. So yeah, absolutely.
>> Great. Thank you.
>> I think um sorry.
I think um
that $14,000 might might might not
actually be there when we get quotes
back. We might be well over that. We
might have to pull into the budget just
to get that done. So I think it would be
a good idea to bid that as a um ala
carte so to speak. Like you you like you
mentioned um so go with the your
recommendations and see where that comes
back and
have an extra bid
for Constitution if and if it falls
within if the numbers work then I think
that would be good. I agree with you. Uh
we want to avoid um
pushing the pushing the bill down the
road.
But
when these bills when these bids come
back it might that 14,000 might not be
there.
We'll see.
>> Accurate. Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Do we do these street improvements,
street preservation every year?
>> No, we do them in the in this last SIP
which was is it five or six years ago
that we were
>> Right. That Charles five
>> Five years ago. We've had two two street
preservation contracts in that five
years.
So you we usually have
every other year we'll do a street
preservation contract three years at the
most. We like to do a preservation
contract and then the off years we'll do
some some complete street repave so next
year we already have a couple of streets
that we're going to be completely
rebuilding. That's going to be East
Lincoln Street associated with a storm
water project. Um East Railroad Street
we're going to be completely rebuilding.
So, there's some full rebuild projects
that are different than these
preservations.
And that's not an exact science that we said two two times within five
years. It's that's a a roundabout what
we'd like to try to do.
» Okay.
Um
any other thoughts?
Um I kind of like Mr. Mooney's approach
there of um
breaking out the bids
as the add-on there. I think that might
be the way to go.
Anybody else?
>> I agree with that.
>> All right. Cool.
>> I'll move forward with uh bidding
Constitution as an alternate.
>> Great and perfect.
Uh now I I think you're also going to
talk to us about the Charters of Freedom
Plaza.
>> Yeah, and I can be pretty quick with
this one and um
and for the for the council members that
aren't aware of this, through our
subdivision land development process and
our ordinance, we have a requirement for
a developer's agreement. Uh there's two
different forms of developer's
agreement. There's a small form and a
large form. The large form includes a
lot of financial security items for
whenever there's like new streets or
things be dedicated to the bureau. Um we
require the the developer post a bond to
secure those things. Then there's a
smaller form. In this case, we'd be
using this smaller form of the
developer's agreement. Um but really
what I'm the reason and and and this is
a very very much a formality. Um the
planning commission has approval
authority in Gettysburg for subdivisions
land developments. And they would
approve a in this case a subdivision and
then the developer's agreement would
come to you guys. I wouldn't usually
have this presentation to you like this.
It would just come to you and say, "Hey,
look, they they approved the
subdivision. Now we need the developer's
agreement to
um be approved by you guys." Only you
guys can approve agreements. The
planning commission can't do that. So,
that still have to come to you guys.
Just like an operation and maintenance
stormwater management agreement. This
These would also come to you guys.
Uh the reason why I'm coming to you in
this case is because there is a bit of a
chicken and an egg thing. So, this is
the subdivision plan and John has a copy
of the big packet of subdivision plans
that are all going to go to the planning
commission in 2 weeks from now.
Um that's way more detailed than this
one.
Um but just to give you an idea of what
what's being proposed here is So, the
Dawbin house is right here. The Charter
of of Freedom Plaza is proposed right
here. Well, this house right here
currently sits in that location. The
HARB has approved it to be relocated to
this location. Currently, there is a old
block garage that sits in that location.
That's also been approved for for
demolition. This is the old red um barn
that sits in the back. So, this house is
going to get moved to this location. And
then this house is going to stay. Um and
it's going to get turned just slightly
so that it kind of marries up with
Washington Street, but it also faces the
charters. Um that's the best way it
could fit in there.
As you can see by its configuration,
there's a lot line that exists currently
down the middle. This new building will
sit right on top of that lot line. So,
you can't really
build or move that house until that lot
line's fixed. But you also can't create
this line
until that's this process is done
because now you have create a garage on
the back of that lot that lot and that's
a not a
it's not a primary it's not able to be a primary use a garage by
itself.
So, there's this chicken and an egg
dilemma
um on how to get past this. And after
meeting with John and talking about the
best way to approach this, we said,
"Well, we got to do this developer's
agreement anyways. Why don't we just say
in there that that the borough will
allow this development to move forward
and Jackie White, the pro project owner
here, will agree to finalize the
subdivision process. So, she will
eliminate essentially this line. Don't
let that She won't let that line there.
She'll actually She's got to sell that
property to herself essentially for a
dollar or whatever, so that that line is
eliminated, right? So, that's how this
is going to have to happen. It would be
awfully So, in today's world, it's
actually kind of really cool that you
can move a house, but as you can
imagine, you wouldn't be able to just
hover that house in air while you're
going through this month or two process
of the subdivision. So, rather than
hovering a house in the air while you're
going through all this stuff, you would
do a developer's agreement that would
say that both parties agree that borough
would agree to approve the process of
moving the house.
Ms. White would approve or agree to
finalizing the subdivision process, and
that would allow her to go ahead and
proceed with the project. So,
that is essentially why this developer's
going to come This development
agreement's going to be on your agenda
prior to the subdivision being approved
by the planning commission. That's why
there's this chicken and egg thing.
Although they go together. Does that
make sense?
Clear as mud.
>> No. [laughter] No.
>> I apologize if I confused you cuz
sometimes I confuse myself with this.
>> [laughter]
>> All right. Any questions about that?
All right. Thank you, sir.
>> Sure.
» Cats.
» Good evening. I was told to keep this
very quick, and I think we can.
Um overall, we've received some concern
from our spay neuter partners, Forever
Love Rescue,
uh regarding enforcement of our current
cat regulations as they appear in
chapter two, animals.
In particular,
the owner of a cat is defined as someone
that feeds a cat. That presents a
problem as individuals who engage with
the services of Forever Love Rescue are
bringing them stray animals to be spayed
or neutered, which
research indicates does decrease the
population of feral cat colonies. So,
it's a positive.
By ending that program, that would be a
net negative for the borough. We'd have
increased feral cat populations. Um
staff has proposed uh that either we,
the borough,
just directly update the ordinance with
basic language that we provided whereby
instead of saying any person owning,
keeping, feeding, uh harboring, or
having custody of a cat, any person who
allows a cat to reside or remain about
his or her premises shall be considered
a cat owner,
uh getting rid of most of that language
to just have it state any person owning,
keeping, providing permanent shelter and
habitat, harboring, or having custody of
a cat is a cat owner. Um that should
alleviate the initial concerns, but
additionally, if it's council's wish, it
would be probably beneficial to actually
have a meeting with Forever Love Rescue
and to discuss their concerns and
formulate a more proactive ordinance to
facilitate their efforts and efforts to
control feral cats.
So, that that's what we have from staff.
» Okay.
Um any thoughts on that?
» I do, but I'm just I'm laughing about it
only because it's
um
I never knew it was in there and um I
just think about all the good deeds that
people do and feeding cats and just
making sure they're well-kept and and
just out of the goodness of their heart
and I don't think they should be
considered the owners of the cats. I
mean
>> So,
>> of like old, but I'm trying to
understand it.
>> We heard arguments to the to the exact
opposite a few years ago when we started
the trap, neuter, release program. Um
there were, I believe, four key areas of
the borough that had large colonies. Our
neighborhood has several colonies.
And there are good-natured folks who
will do things like put out
a ton of wet cat food for these feral
cats. And
um not only do the cats enjoy the cat
food, but so do populations of skunks,
so do um rabbits, so you know, all sorts
of stuff.
Um
So there there are um multiple
overlapping public health issues. Uh cat
feces in your garden is bad for you. You
shouldn't eat any plants if they've been
um
fertilized by cat.
Um there's lots of reasons to control
those populations.
Um
when they at the at the very least when
they become overpopulated, they tend to
starve.
So um
we did partner to create the trap,
neuter, release program. It is a
minor expense. I think the first year we budgeted $2,500 and it's dropped
every year since.
But we're still having good success in
controlling those populations.
Um
so if you are a person who is
encouraging the breeding of feral cats
in your neighborhood, um
there is a level of responsibility that
you know, you will
um
need to take on and just having a good
heart and wanting to feed them is not
necessarily the end of the conversation.
[laughter]
>> I [snorts] wasn't making it the end of
the conversation. I was just pointing
out that sometimes people don't know
that their good deeds are leading to
other issues and complications and
totally respect what Forever Loved does.
They've been
>> Yeah.
>> doing that for a long, long time and
>> Yeah, and it's been a it's been a
success for us.
>> [clears throat]
>> Um
All right, does anybody have opposition
to begin a conversation with them to
make sure that we're crafting the
language in a
way that's um
as mutually beneficial as possible.
>> All right.
>> So, let's get going on that.
>> But clarification, as a cat owner, do I
have to keep feeding my cat until we
decide on this or can I stop feeding
[laughter] my cat?
>> I'm not going to tell you how to live
your life, so.
Uh Mr. Gable, juror parking.
>> Uh yes, juror parking. Um there is a
draft
uh memorandum of understanding or
agreement uh between the uh the the
bureau and the county
uh in your packet for your review.
It's uh
just some minor tweaks from what we have
existing uh previously for uh those uh
new on council
uh the bureau partners with uh the court
system here in Adams County to provide
for the parking of citizens called to
jury duty.
Uh whenever court is in session,
uh those potential jurors uh park in the
Resource Alley garage uh at designated
spaces
um and then a nominal fee is charged to
the county for those parking privileges.
Uh so, all of that is articulated in the
renewal of this MOU. Um
it's it's been successful from the
bureau's perspective. Uh the court
communicates with uh the folks in the
parking department for when court is
going to be in session. We uh then uh
promptly reserve those spaces uh at the
top of the garage.
Uh the jurors come in,
uh do their civic duty, and leave.
Um
this happens about once a month.
It's not onerous. Obviously, it's
usually during the week, so it's not an
issue of you know, taking up spaces,
storing large events, or other things
happening in town.
Uh so, the MOU is terminating, so we
should renew it.
>> All right. Any questions on that?
Any opposition to continuing our
long-standing practice of helping people
engage in their civic duty?
All right.
>> That's good.
>> We'll be good to go.
>> Thank you.
>> All right. That concludes our new
business. We don't have any current or
old business, so that takes us back to
our second public comment section of the
evening. This section is not restricted
to items appearing on tonight's agenda.
We do ask that you use the podium.
Please state your name and address, and
limit yourself to 5 minutes. Is there
any public comment?
» Good evening, again.
Thank you for the opportunity to speak,
Mr. Wilson.
Thank you.
I appreciate the comments
offered earlier this evening. I want to
clarify a key point for the record.
The historic architectural review board
recommendation to create a new district
does not halt, nor does it prohibit the
development, nor does it automatically
prevent the demolition of any structure
within the borough.
The historic district establishes a
review process for the exterior, so that
decisions are made deliberately and
transparently.
Importantly, no application related to
the library project or the seminary
dormitories is before HARB
at this time, and any future proposal
would be reviewed on its own merit
without with full opportunity for public
input,
deliberation
of the project's public benefit.
The intent of the recommendation is to
ensure one of the borough's most
important, significant, historic
gateways is thoughtfully managed over
time consistent with the approach
Council has already taken elsewhere. It
is not intended to preclude civic
investment or institutional growth.
If Council were to consider funding a
study as part of the Chapter 11 update,
that effort could align with the borough
with other certain state and federal
grant opportunities
related to planning, preservation, and
community development.
Ultimately, the recommendation simply
provides Council with an option for
future consideration. It does not impose
any outcome on any specific projects.
Thank you and good evening.
>> Thank you, sir.
I don't see any other people from the
public here, so I think I can safely say
we can adjourn to executive session.
Thank you.