Good evening. We have a lot on our agenda tonight, so we like to move
through as quickly as we can. I'd like to call this meeting to order. My name
is Joseph Edler. I am the vice chair of the Gettysburg Bur Historic
Architectural Review Board. Um, and at this time I'd like to do roll
call. Assisting us tonight from the burough staff is John Whitmore, who's
the code enforcement officer, planning and zoning officer, and Karen Mesher,
acting as HARB's administrative assistant. Um, our board members include
Miss Stephanie Shara, uh, Mr. Paul Wit, Mr. Gary Schaefer, Miss Suzanne
Christensen, and Mr. Kim Spitler representing PMCA as the building code
official. Uh, just note that Chairman Brandon Stone is not with us tonight.
Um, so at this point, I'd like to review
tonight's agenda and see if there are any changes.
We just noted a misspelling under the consent agenda. Item B was
Yate and not Windgate. And there is no number eight. It skips
to number nine for public comment.
Does anybody have any other changes or comments?
Uh, do I have a motion to approve the business meeting agenda of June 30th,
2026? >> I will.
» Okay. I have a motion by Miss Suzanne Christensen.
» I'll second that. >> Seconded by Mr. Paul Wit. All in favor?
» All right. We'll move on to the meeting minutes of May 20th, 2026.
Are there any comments, questions, changes?
» Make a motion. We appear the minutes as out.
» All right. Do we have a second? >> I'll second.
» All right. Motion by Mr. Paul Wit, second by Miss Stephanie Shara. Uh, all
in favor? >> I.
» All right. Motion passes. Um, item number three, public comment.
At this point, we'll open up the podium for public comment for items on the
agenda or not on the agenda. Uh, when you get to the podium, please give us
your name for Miss Measure.
Test one. Can you hear me? Can you hear me?
» Yes. Test one two. >> Is it green under here?
» It's green on top. Okay. Well, I'll try to speak loud then.
Loudly. Um, my name is Thomas Paul's 26 Highland View Lane, Gettysburg. Um,
I respectfully and forcefully oppose certain language within the existing
historic district ordinance that has of late been used by certain council
administrative heads to justify and promote what I see as a desecration of
the hollowed ground in this internationally recognized historic
place. We all have our opinions on how these
things are approached, but quite frankly, I've used the such existing
language we have as a form almost of secular blasphemy. I know that's
strongly sparted, but there's a reason for that, which I will get into in a
moment. So, where there's a problem, there needs to be a solution. And
therefore, I once again call on the HARB to recommend and the final
decision-making body to adopt that my detailed text amendment language entered
in as part of the May 20th, 2026 agenda and under separate cover attached to
these June 30th, 2026 HARB comments. These recommended amendments are based
upon nearly 40 years of professional planning experience in writing
successful oftentimes fully adopted by the elected bodies updates to many land
development codes in a number of states. Summary of the amendments and I'll try
to be as brief as I can. The first delete the following existing text
within the Gettysburg Burough Code Chapter 11 section 1110.1E
contemporary design for additional additions to existing buildings that
differentiate between old and new parts shall not be discouraged. So it's
basically saying contemporary designs in reverse shall be encouraged. They
shall not be discouraged when such additions do not destroy the significant
historic and architectural cultural material and such design is compatible
with the size, scale, color, material, aesthetics and character of the
building. That is in a direct contravention to the section 11101 C111
where there's a list of what the matters to be considered by the board are and I
believe that that language should be struck with other language put in its
place. Secondly, and I think more almost more egregiously, is subsection F of the
same section saying contemporary design for new buildings shall be encouraged
provided design is compatible with existing neighboring structures and
scale, size, color, and building materials and other considerations
listed in subsection 1C of this section. This is what I'm proposing be put in
those two sections place. Section E, section F would no longer be um in
existence. Section E. Consistent with the principles of sound historic
preservation and as a matter of common practice to reinforce the provisions of
this chapter, new buildings and additions to existing buildings shall
emphasize the predominant and compatible historic styles and architectural
features of neighboring properties in the general surrounding area. This
applies to all proposed physical features as cited above in section
11101C 1-11. That's the list that we talked
about matters to be considered. Any consideration of contemporary design
that differentiates between the old and new shall be considered only when such
design has been demonstrated as necessary and shall be incorporated only
for purposes of architectural accent or minor embellishments. Such new buildings
or additions shall not adversely impact the existing historic architectural or
cultural character of the subject property, the surrounding neighborhood
and shall further contribute to the overall authenticity of Gettysburg's
historic heritage.
under section 1 C 110U 11101C it says the following architectural
features of the building uh and site along with the compatibility of those
neighboring buildings um I would add shall serve as the principal guide for
decision makers when considering applications for certificate of
appropriate not just under consideration but serve as the principal guide for 1C1
modifications to architectural style that have been made over time I would
add consistent with section 11-102 purposes of this chapter, such decision
to modify the architectural style shall give preferential weight to replicating
or historically complementing the predominant existing character of other
historic structures located within the vicinity of the subject property.
section 1 CB I mean 1 C8 the importance of fences and walls where it talks about
um to prop um that it should be cohesive of buildings and line and historic
appropriateness. I would suggest that instead it should reinforce the proper
facial articulation and authenticity of the type size and positioning of
position of materials from which these are made such as brick or stone.
1D1 the removal or alteration of covering of any historic material or
distinctive architectural feature. If any such items are removed they shall be
properly recorded and if possible it says stored. I would suggest they
properly archived so that the materials are taken carefully into account and
archived carefully for permanence. So properly archived would be the language
I would add in that section. Section 1D3, the surface of cleaning masonry.
When brick has been painted in the past, repainted rather than paint when brick
has been painted in the past, repainting rather than paint removal shall it's
shall be undertaken unless otherwise recommended by the board. Um, so the
importance here is that that first of all, it's preferred that the repainting
take place. If they wish not to do that, they should get the board's concurrence
beforehand. This last item has to do with variances and the height of new
buildings or structures shall not exceed the height of the tallest building or
structure by more than 10%. It goes on to say how and I would strike this
language. However, the board may recommend grant of a variance from this
height limitation and goes on. My position is that it really is not the
role of the historic and architectural reward to offer a recommendation to an
applicant as to whether or not they should file for a variance. That's an
item for the applicant and maybe the applicant's representatives to offer.
And I would suggest this language. If the applicant for a certificate of
appropriateness seeks a variance from the zoning hearing board ZB for any
purpose relating to the dimensional requirements cited in this chapter, then
such variance must first be approved by the ZB before the historic architectural
review board takes final action related to the COA application certificate of
appropriateness. It remains the responsibility of the certificate of
certificate of appropriateness applicant to decide whether or not to proceed with
a variance application. The historic architectural reward shall remain
neutral in such cases and not offer any guidance for or against the advisability
of seeking such a variance. Those are my comments. I respectfully offer them to
you. Thank you. >> Thank you. Any questions?
» Are there any questions of the speaker? Y thank you.
Is there anybody else here for public comment?
Okay. If there is no more public comment, we'll move on to item number
four, the consent agenda. The consent agenda allows for expedited approvals of
projects that comply with both the Gettysburg Design Guide and the
Department of Interior Secretary Standards. Uh the projects listed
tonight while larger than a minor project fit into these categories. Uh
has the board had opportunity to review and are there any questions or concerns
about the two projects? Um A at 222 Buford Avenue or B 54 East Middle
Street.
Okay. And is there anybody do you have any comments for Gary?
» Is anyone here for 54 East Middle Street?
» Yes. >> The the windgate board on board fence.
Is that a style or is that a manufacturer?
» We're Long Fence Company did the original fence. It's a part of the fence
that's there. So I it's matching the I guess it's the style of the board the
design >> and it is wood.
» Yes, it is wood. So we were just going to match continue
to match what was currently put there before.
It's a
it's a I I once again it's come from long fence company. I think we my wife
and I got it directly out of there. So both sides of the fence actually look uh
identical. So it's looks good on both sides. It's not it's not a front side
and a back side, but the fence looks like it's a front side on both. So
there's boards on both sides.
» No issue. Just >> Okay.
Well, for the record, how do you spell what is it? Windgate W
» in the application. It's W Y N G A T E. Uh, it's just missing the N in this
summary.
» Okay. If there's no other comments or questions for approval at their next
meeting and burough council will give you the certificate of appropriateness.
So
you free to go.
Okay. We will move on to old business uh which
there is none. Uh, so we'll move on to 6A, new business. Uh, CO A26-00
216 major project 120 or 162 York Street, Anton Hummer.
Would you like to give us uh some information about your project?
» Sure. Thank you and thanks for having me. I'm Anton Hummer uh at 162 York
Street. Um, so maybe just a little bit of background. I purchased the property
back in um, June of last year. Um, so I was here in October and requested to
replace the windows and the roof to kind of improve the house. Um, that work was
completed. It's not reflected yet in that photo, but um, but it's going to be
back again. And um, looking to make some improvements to the exterior of the home
now. Um, as you can see there in that photo, there's an existing fence on the
one side. It's kind of it's wooden which is kind of starting to rot and fall down
a bit. And on the other side and kind of in the back it's more of a chain link
kind of style. Um so looking to replace that with a a PVC style fence um wood
grain look to it. Um that'll last a lot longer and just look a bit cleaner, you
know, in the rear of the property. Um, also looking to install a 14 by14
stamped concrete patio just right in the back of the house there. Um, just to add
some some living space really on the nice summer days that hopefully aren't
as hot as today uh to enjoy the outside of the property. Um, you know, nothing
no changes to the to the look of the property from the from the front. Just
all all changes to the rear here. Um, so that's a high level summary. happy to
take any questions you have. >> And I'm sorry, I think I jumped the gun.
Uh, Mr. Whitmore, uh, can you give us the background for the project?
» No problem. Um, as discussed, this is a replacement of rear yard fence, uh,
changed from a wood material to a vinyl 6ft tall PVC fencing, total linear
length of 227 ft. Um, first identified on 1907 Sandborn maps as a two-story
brick building with rear wood frame porch all with a shingle roof. It is
also featured in the 1912 maps and similarly designed but with a slate roof
at that time. Uh we do have previous permits as identified. Uh we have the
roof replacement, window glazing, brick repointing, installation of hardprove
vinyl windows and installation of sign occurring most recently on November 20th
uh 2025. uh staff recommendation. Uh in
particular, we're recommending denial of this application as the installation of
vinyl fencing does not meet design criteria established by the Burough of
Gettysburg or the US Department of Interior Secretary standards for the
treatment of historic properties. An alternative material such as wood would
be in keeping with the rear box fence designs and would meet design
requirements. That concludes staff report.
» Okay. Thank you, Mr. Whitmore. Um, at this time I'll open up the floor of
the board members to ask questions of the applicant and I'll start with Miss
Stephanie Shar.
» I don't. >> Okay. Mr. Wit, um,
I'm kind of at odds here whether he wants to put up a PVC
fence which be woodooking. What What color are you talking about?
White or brown? There's um it's a brown color. There's actually kind of a
rendering of it later in the um if you have the application.
» This this was denied by the burrow the PVC thing.
» Couple more pages. Oh, right there in the bottom. It's kind
of a >> Yeah,
» general this >> feel how it would look
on page 71.
» I'm not sure if I have any real problem with that. Some other people have issues
with that. >> Um, well, the I believe uh Mr. Dr.
Whitmore said the burough would recommend denying this material.
All right. So, John, if you can go back to the tax map
there. So,
We had gone we have gone through a period of
replacement fences and the popularity of the vinyl has increased and
it's created a look in many places that's just alien to the historic
district to be honest and uh I appreciate the fact that you chosen a
color that's a little subtle, more subtle, but along this stretch of the
rear of these properties and some of the properties, um, Molly and Steve Wilds,
they were here earlier about 54 East Middle Street, you can't even see any of
their backyard from either the alley or the
street. So, kind of when you work with that, and they're putting a very nice
wood fence on it, but it has limited visibility.
This has a great deal of visibility from the parking lot of the
um firehouse, which is a very frequently used place for activities,
gatherings, people park there. And when you look at across at this at these kind
of garage buildings and older fences,
I I go up that alley frequently because my office is on that alley just one
block away. So
would you consider I mean you have a wood fence on the one side. I know
there's some maintenance issues with wood. I have wood of my own. And I look
out across a parking lot at a white vinyl plastic fence
that's just alien. That's just very um perfect. That's the best way to
describe the plastic look. It's just kind of everything looks the same and
all plastic. and the materials become critical in a in the historic district.
Is wood out of the question for you? >> Certainly wouldn't be my preference just
from a maintenance perspective, but if it's the preferred option,
» the other question I have is why such an extensive fence?
Now, I know there's one side to the west that does have fence from the back of
the house to the garage, and that's a wood fence. It's kind of tumbled down.
Now, that was on the left side there. There's an existing wood fence along the
property line. >> Um,
» yeah, and the map Oh, sorry. Well, I was just going to say, do you expect uh your
guests to really use that much of the yard that they need that much privacy or
» it's just a lot of fence 6 foot high around that property?
» So, this rendering here like that this red outline would not be the
footprint of the new fence. Um there's another I don't know if you have the
application the pictures I submitted. I can give you a better idea. 27 ft. So
that's pretty expensive. This
» walk kind of show you here. >> I think this is the gravel parking.
» Here it is here. So So on the left side there you can see kind of really from
the from the rear of the really the neighbor's house back to the start of
the the parking area which on the left side there that's the that's where the
existing fence is. Um and then along the back there is already chain link fence
there. And then on the right side there's some kind of wiring type, you
know, fence material. But really just looking to complete the right side to
add some symmetric, you know, symmetricity to the to the design and,
you know, some privacy, you know, as well.
» I've got a neighbor who has a a plastic fence next to our property and I can
understand the desiraability of the plastic. The problem is it's like a
redwood color and it's fading. It's not that old
» and the sun hits it and it it just fades out. This one you have picked out, the
tan one, I don't think would have that. I could see why a white plastic fence
would look pretty PVC plumbing type thing. But
» and that's why we picked that color to try to, you know, have it
maintenancefree, have it look clean, but also, you know, look like as close as we
could to wood.
» Well, that's all I have. >> I have no other question other than the
fact that the fence does not only impact the district, it impacts two neighbors
very significantly. two adjoining properties that are
private res well they're residential apartments now
» again on the left side that there's an existing sixoot fence there already so
there wouldn't really be a change from >> as Paul's pointed out the wood a wood
fence ages differently than plastic it's more subtle look it's it's it is a
maintenance issue They at what ages it kind of becomes softer in appearance
than more harsh. >> I have no other questions and I went
into too much discussion already. >> I don't really have any questions. I
mean I feel bad. It's just that it doesn't comply with what we are allow.
» Sure. >> Okay.
» Doesn't comply. Yeah. I mean I have a white fence. I'm not in the B. I am in
the burrow, but I'm not in the historic district. Let me clarify that. Um, and
it actually I do have to clean it a lot. But, um, yeah, it just I'm sorry. It
doesn't fit. >> Yeah. Would I be able to get approval
for recommendation for approval if I did it with wood instead?
» I think so. Right. >> I believe so.
» Yeah.
Does >> that need to be a separate application
or could I we could take care of that here today?
» I believe we can make a motion to approve once we
» I'm good. >> Okay, you're good.
» Right with Susan. >> Okay.
» Staff would just recommend in making that app making that motion to specify
the material as wood. Then we can make that the condition.
» Okay. So, I guess I go through the proposed finding effect.
Um the structure at 162 York Street is located within the boundaries of the
Gettysburg Historic District and thus comes under the review right of this
board is subject to oversight under chapter 11 of the burrow of Gettysburg
Municipal Code which governs the preservation of historic and
architecturally significant areas within the burrow. It is a sensitive building
as defined by the Gettysburg municipal code being over 50 years old and
represents a vernacular interpretation of Greek revival style with early
Italianade influence. Uh the building is a contri contributing
structure to the Gettysburg Battlefield Historic District with a long history in
the Burrow of Gettysburg. Constructed circa 1850 as a twostory brick dwelling
and its masonry construction, balanced proportions and modest ornate treatment
aligned with our local vernacular forms that bridge the early federal and late
Italian architectures. The proposed work is considered a major
project with exterior alterations to a sensitive building, including
replacement of 227 linear feet of 6ft tall fencing in the rear yard with a
material change from wood to vinyl PVC and construct a new 14x14 stamp patio.
The property is viewable from the public way of York Street and East Racorse
Alley. The Secretary of Interior Standards and
Gettysburg Design Guide both play a crucial role in our historic
preservation process. Please consider the following. Standard 9, compatible
alterations provides that new additions, exterior alterations
uh and related site improvements should be compatible with the historic property
in terms of scale, design, materials, workmanship, and overall visual
character. Accordingly, proposed elements including the replacement
fencing and patio should remain compatible with the historic character
of the structure in terms of scale, proportion, material, finish, and
architectural appearance. At this point, is there a motion by this board as a
issuance of a certificate of appropriateness to the burrow for the
proposed work? And are there any additional conditions this board would
advise be added to the application? >> Joe, John had a comment. Um just to
confirm with the findings of fact that the material would be wood that just
» correct. So in the motion >> so I'll make a motion to propose
acceptance if it is confirmed that the material is
worth in a prettier way. You can say that
nicely.
So, there is a motion to approve the 227 linear feet of 6ft bench in the rear
yard uh with a proposed material of wood. Um, do we need to specify a style
» and you you had the option to do so, but this time the issue that staff found and
recommend basically material itself. Okay.
» There's a specific design you'd like to see other than what's being provided by
the clarify style.
» Do you want to specify a style? >> No.
» Okay. Um,
so we have a proposed motion. Is there a second?
I'll second it. >> Okay. Mr. Spitler has second. Uh,
all in favor say I. >> I.
» I. Uh any opposed? All right. So, the motion has been
approved uh for the new fence in a wood material.
Are there any questions about the patio? >> No questions about the patio.
» Okay.
» Well, you good. >> Just want to make sure we didn't miss
it. Thank you.
» Okay.
Moving on to new business COA26-000061
critical project 26 East High Street. Uh Kevin Buyers.
» Yep. >> And I guess we'll go to Mr. Whitmore for
the background of the project. This is a rear exterior construction to include a
new patio, masonry fireplace, 8 in square, 8 foot tall endura stone pro
series columns on second floor balcony, replacement exterior ceiling with wood,
and construction of a 6 ftx 8 ft utility shed. Structure first appears on the
1912 Sandborn maps as a two-story brick dwelling with a slate or tin roof with
iron shutters. Um, numerous permits uh since 2013 are found. The most recent
involved with minor subdivision uh related to consolidating parking to the
rear of the structure. But otherwise, um, in February of 2025, there were, um,
um, improvements to the structure itself, including replacement of front
awning, painting the wood, replacing rear vinyl siding with LP siding,
conversion to of electric to gas lighting elements, and interior work to
include new kitchen laundry room bathrooms, adding a gas fireplace, and
electric upgrades. Um, staff recommends that any historic features that can be
repaired and restored should be preserved. Uh the applicant should
discuss the current condition of the facade and proposed window style with
board members. Um additionally the um any the
accessory structure uh the utility shed. Um the appropriateness of exterior
architectural features which can be seen from a public street rightway is a point
of consideration as is the general design arrangement, texture, material
and color of the building sign or fence and the relation of such factors to
similar features in the district. That concludes the report with a
recommendation based on um factors two and five of the US Secretary of
Interior's standards for the rehabilitation and guidelines for
rehabilitating historic buildings 2017. Okay. Uh thank you. Uh would you like to
give us a summary of your project? >> Yes. So um to the rear currently um
we'll go down the list. So currently the there's vinyl railing and vinyl columns
uh on the second floor to the back. And we're looking to replace that vinyl with
um it's a endura cast stone. It's going to be painted, so it will look like
wood, but it's actually a cast stone supportive column. Um, and then for the
railing was just going to be a black rot iron uh railing.
So, it would have painted columns, rot iron railing. Um
that and then working down the ceiling to
that second floor balcony and the ceiling that would
that picture was just included to show that's the only pvious part of my
property. Everything else is already blacked top or concreted.
Uh that's that's for the front which we're not doing anything with that.
Um but anyway, so replace the vinyl columns, the vinyl railing with uh newer
columns. Replace the Yeah. replace the ceiling above, which again is all vinyl
um with wood. Um and that would be on the second floor ceiling and the first
floor porch ceiling. Take away the vinyl, make it wood. Um and then there's
a there's the columns. there is a um outline there or a a plan of the
property. So, we do want to enclose with a privacy fence which would be six foot.
It'll be wood. Um I think I sent a picture of the fence in as well there.
Be similar to that. The boards would overlap. It would be finished on both
sides just like the other gentleman had said for his. Um, and that would just
kind of enclose a little um, PA patio out back. And then the only other two
things would be the shed itself, which I think this the notes say um, 6x8, but
it's going to be 6x10, but with the overhangs, it'll end up being 7 by 10.
And that would fit to the one side of the property. It's kind of a salt box
carriage style. Um, the siding on that is going to match the approved LP smart
siding that's actually on the taking down vinyl siding and putting LP smart
siding um to the back of the house as well. So, that'll just match that. It'll
be the same same thing. Um, oh, and then the only other thing would
be we're actually proposing a masonry uh fireplace to the rear of this this new
patio section. And I have kind of a pretty close example of what that would
look like. So, it's fireplace, shed, pavers, fence,
replace vinyl with wood andor uh rod iron.
Okay. If there's uh nothing more, we can uh open up to the board to ask
questions. make comments. We can start with you, Mr. Wit.
» I have no questions or comments now.
» So, if you if you'd go to Can you show this
picture?
So, you're changing the exist You're changing a lot of material on this back
porch. Well, yeah. The the siding to the right is vinyl, and that's going to be
that was already approved as part of this current um permit, but that's going
to be the LP smart siding, which is basically wood and then painted. Um and
then yes, the vinyl would disappear. >> And so, and you're replacing that with
the this wood? >> Yes.
» Material for the >> be like a tongue and groove wood ceiling
for um each of the two. And then the columns
are just going to be a um they're not PVC, it's called Endura
Stone. It's but they're they're weightbearing uh Craftsman style
uh columns. >> Okay.
» Is it plastic? >> I'm sorry. I'm not
» It is >> um
» it will be it's not plastic, but it it's called Endura Stone Pro. Let me I'll see
what it's actually made of. But you have a currently they're all
just wood columns. Wood >> wrapped in vinyl.
» Yeah. >> Okay. And
» even the upper columns are wrapped in vinyl.
» Yeah. The two downstairs ones are not. They are wood.
The two green ones on the front. But all of those up top there are wrapped in
vinyl. just and that railing is only about I don't
know 28 30 in tall
» and that is a vinyl railing now. Okay. >> Um
» so it's a fiberglass reinforced polymer stronger than concrete and steel by
weight. >> Okay.
» A stone column
» and a rod iron railing. A very decorative railing.
» Yeah. Okay. >> Well, it's I mean at the at the very top
there's like 6 in that has a little bit of a
» Mhm. >> decorative, but the rest of it, you
know, just
it just seems like a very modern update to a kind of what was it? A late
Victorian house, Italian 8 influence house. You don't see many porches kind
of variate from the the white fence or the white railing.
» Um, okay. I do have a question.
» Oh, I was just going to say, sorry. Um, there's iron on the front of the house.
There's a, you know, stairs to the front that has black railing. So, rod iron is
kind of part of the house already in the front.
» Okay. Um, as far as the shed, is is it a
permanent structure? Is there a foundation? Is or is it just kind of
dropped off and >> Well, it's not going to be dropped off.
It'll be stick built there, but it'll be it'll just sit on the macadam that's
already there. >> Okay.
All right. I don't have any more questions. Yeah, my my questions are
very similar to Joe's as far as I just think uh
even though the railings and columns are plastic.
Um did you install them?
» No, we just I just we just purchased the property two and a half years ago. So I
don't know how long those have been there. Um, I would imagine they possibly
replicated particularly particularly the
railing replicated pretty much the style that was on the porch. As Joe said, we
don't see row iron railings on porches in general that were there that style.
Um just we
it's not unusual for these houses front and back or front porches when these
properties were built. Um very few railings were put on the lower porches
and very few railings on stairs and everything. And as they've
been added over time, you're correct. They have gotten rod iron and iron
railings on the front. on these steps because they were they were added. They
were a later addition. Um even now we're hearing we're seeing code enforcement
direct people that have apartments to put railings on. So we're getting deck
style railings on the front of houses. I just
the endura the lower columns look like they pretty much replicate what may have
been original because a lot of these on back porches and rear porches had a
square column with a beveled corner and it had a little bit of decorative
element to it. But um
the how large I mean your rendering makes those columns go from very thin
look very heavy and out of proportion >> right well to space them out properly up
because the other thing with this is we're planning to take those stairs away
right now there's I don't know if there's a better picture but there's
there was a second floor apartment upstairs before so there's these stairs
that come down. So, they would come off and then that would make those two
columns to spread them out correctly. Uh they're basically about 8 feet in
between each one of those. So, those columns upstairs would would move to
make it more symmetrical or that was the plan
because without the stairs, >> how big are the columns?
» Um they're very small. They're five, six inches. I don't know. They're
not. They're probably only four to five inches.
» 8 in square. >> They're 8 inch square, which is not
» Oh, you mean the new columns? I thought you meant the old ones.
» The Yeah, the the the new ones would be wider than the old ones. Yeah, I thought
you were talking about the width of the old ones.
» That's Yeah, that's a larger column than would have been typical for that house.
» Well, it's closer to the size of the ones that are currently downstairs on
the first floor.
We're going to have the white up up pieces and then the crack metal
railing, black metal railing on that. >> Yeah, these would get painted a trim
color there. It' be more of a um well, it's called a stone color, but it's more
of a grayish tan color because that's the color of the siding. Um, so they're
not going to be white. They will be painted.
And then the black, which I can try to find a less
decorative black and just I was having trouble finding an affordable solution.
I went to a metal fabricator in handover to just get single pickets and his price
was just crazy. But I was able to find these. I don't know if I can find them
without the decorative so that they're just slats there.
which would which would replicate more of what's out front on the front steps,
which is just a railing with straight row iron.
» Um, no further questions right now.
» So, the fence is wood, right? >> Yes.
» Yeah, that wasn't I don't think it was listed in here. We have to make sure we
list that. >> Oh, yes. There was a picture included,
but yeah, it's wood. >> Yeah, I don't really have any questions.
» I don't have any either.
Okay.
All right. I guess I'll go through the proposed finding effect.
Uh the structure at 26 East High Street is
located within the boundaries of the Gettysburg Historic District and thus
comes under the right review right of this board. It is subject to oversight
under chapter 11 of the Burough of Gettysburg Municipal Code which governs
the preservation of historic and architecturally significant areas within
the burrow. Two, it is a sensitive building as
defined by the Gettysburg Municipal Code being over 50 years old and represents a
vernacular commercial residential building with late Victorian and Italian
influence. The building is a contributing resource within the
Gettysburg Battlefield Historic District. First depicted on the 1912
Sandborn maps as a two-story brick dwelling with a slate or tin roof and
iron shutters. Uh the structure continues to convey its historic
character through its masonry construction, vernacular Victorian form,
asymmetrical facade and a projecting second story bay window, decorative
cornice treatment and traditional urban lot configuration. The proposed work is
considered a major project uh with exterior alterations to a
sensitive building including replacement of first and second floor columns and
railing, exterior ceiling, second floor balcony railing, uh the construction of
a 16x 24 patio and surrounding 6ft tall wood privacy fence. construction of a
masonry fireplace and construction of a 6' x10 ft utility shed. The property is
viewable from the public way on East High Street and East Legion Alley. Uh
the Secretary of Interior Standards and Gettysburg Design Guide both play a
crucial role in our historic preservation process. Please consider
the following. Standard 9 compatible al alterations provides that new additions,
exterior alterations, and related site improvements should be compatible with
the historic property in terms of scale, design, materials, workmanship, and
overall visual character. Accordingly, proposed elements include a patio,
masonry fireplace, utility shed, fencing, and replacement columns and
railing, and should be evaluated for their compatibility with the historic
character of the structure and its setting.
Uh, one thing that came up during his presentation, it was about the rear
stair. >> We can't address that at this time. Is
that correct? >> Was already
» or was it already approved?
I believe that was previously approved in 2025. Um, let me go back.
» Can I say something real quick while you're looking?
» Would it look less modern if this ceiling was painted?
instead of stained wood. You mean? >> Yeah.
» We don't want it to look more modern. >> No, I meant I didn't mean more modern.
I'm sorry. I meant >> it looks more modern wood than it would
be if it were painted. >> Oh, so a painted ceiling. Their
question was, should the columns be smaller like the upper columns?
» When I look at the back picture with the white, even though they're vinyl, the
white, the back photograph of what's there now is very much in character with
what the house would have looked. >> The rod iron is alien.
Um if it's
if the columns are a little I think 8 in is bigger than
generally on the properties we've done we use a 6x6 column
um for porch columns uh 8 in by 8 in
just a heavier look. >> Do you wrap those 6 in x 6 in columns?
» Pardon? Do those 6 in x 6 in columns you refer to get wrapped then or just
painted? >> I think that the endura stone or the
there's other there's other PVC columns that have a that are made that
have the weightbearing capacity that are 6x6.
I even found some hollow well wooden columns that are structural that are
hollow in the middle that I could I could use those too. But I was I was
looking for an 8 in as opposed to
» I think that's just heavier than what if we can get the pictures back. It I think
it would have had a white railing uh p similar to what was there. You know, it
shows up in 1912 on the tax tax maps that kind of dates it much earlier.
» It's It was built in 1908. >> Pardon?
» It was built in 1908.
» The current columns, even though they're modern, you said they're vinyl, but
they're still turned. So they have a instead of just a straight form, they
have character. >> Yeah. And there's all kinds of different
styles as you walk around. Some are turned like that. Some are just like the
the bottom ones there, which are just they just have shaving on the corners
and things like that.
» I my I think the port should retain the
white um railing of the and I'm not going to
stipulate any height because I don't know whether this is a vacation rental
now or will be >> well I'm I'm going to live there when
I'm here but for part of the year about a third of the year I would probably
want to offer to short-term rental but it'll be my primary residence
» because I don't know what that does to the railing a private residence can have
a three-foot railing a commercial use >> shortterm goes to commercial. So 42 in,
» right? >> Oh, I thought it was 40. It's 42.
» 42 on a commercial. >> So still I would pref I myself think
um the white square columns that look about the same as the
ones on the first floor, the green ones, is an appropriate look for back porch.
Even though the vinyl ones were turned, that's probably a little bit more
decorative than they would have had on a rear porch. Um, we saw them mainly in
town. We see them mainly on front porch. Um, so I have no issue with the square
column that's a a little smaller, but I would I will
have I would prefer and would recommend we ask for the white railing um the
traditional top rail square um pickets and bottom rail rather than a
ornamental rod iron. >> I could do that. Um,
» it's not going to be PVC though. It'll be wood. I don't you know
» it doesn't I I would not actually You've got vinyl material in place.
I think you could use one of the vinyl railings that replicates.
» Well, we want to try to make this house more like it looked too. So, we would go
to that's why we're trying to replace some of this vinyl with wood.
So my point is simply that's a very strong look and it's very close to I
think what would have been original to the building.
» Okay. >> And the rod iron is a different look
and I don't think I mean that would be a change from what was there. I don't
think it would had raw iron.
So, would you be okay if we made a motion to
change the porch railings to the specified whatever is required height,
» right? Required height, which 42 in and the more of a more of a spindle,
» right? White. >> Well, yeah, I guess it won't be white.
It'll be painted a >> painted to match the trim.
» Yeah, I don't like white.
and the columns to be six inch square. Is that is that what you're saying? Six
inch square columns.
Um I don't know if I want to be that specific. I I'd like them to be about
what's on the first floor. And >> yeah, there won't be
» saying those are eight, but I don't think those are 8 in squares.
» I think they're about six. >> If they are, they're appropriate.
» But >> so the columns to match the columns on
the first floor. You're keeping the columns on the first floor.
» Well, I wasn't planning to, but if I am, then I have to I don't know if they'll
match. Well, if they could if they could the columns could be
similar size to the columns that are there currently.
» I can do 6 in >> wooden columns is what you're looking
for.
» Okay. >> And then a
similar spindle type railing
42 in. Yeah, I mean that's my recommendation if
the board. >> So I guess we the the motion that we put
forward would be to approve uh the replacement of the first
and second floor columns and and railing
uh with 6 in wooden or composite >> wooden columns.
Um, a 42 inch railing. >> Are we specifying a design?
» Not red iron. >> Okay. But it could be a composite or PVC
or >> Okay.
» Or wood. >> Or wood.
Just not rot iron. >> Correct.
» Okay. Well, a simple traditional a traditional
railing similar to what's in place. >> This compliant with code.
» What? >> This compliant with code. Correct. Okay.
» Right. >> Wood ceiling
» compliant with code. >> All right. So, we're going to go with is
» wood fence. >> The the motion would be to replace the
first and second floor columns. uh with 6-inch wooden columns,
uh either a wood composite or PVC fence that is code compliant.
Um the exterior ceiling in wood. Uh construct a new 16x 24 patio and
surrounding 6 ft tall wood fence. uh construction of the masonry fireplace
and construction of a six foot by 10 foot utility shed.
» Does the shed have to be specify what what materials was it listed?
» It'll be the LP smart siding wood >> wood and then architectural shingles.
But >> I believe that was in here. Okay.
All right. So, is that a motion by you? >> All right. We have a motion made by Miss
Suzanne Christensen. Do we have a second?
» Second. >> Okay. All in favor say I.
» I. >> Any opposed?
Uh, so motion will pass with with considerations. Yes.
» Thank you. >> Thank you so appreciate it.
» It'll be gorgeous. >> I can't wait.
» You know, you have to wait till the burrow meeting is the burough council
meeting is >> it'll be July 13th.
» July 13th. And then you'll you should start buying material then,
» right? >> Yep. Okay.
» I mean, when they approve it, if they approve it,
move. >> Yeah.
» When have a good night. Appreciate your time.
» And I see we have representation for 312 Baltimore Street. Mr. Ted Hurt. Uh Mr.
Whitmore, can you give us a background on the project?
» Uh yes. This is the reconstruction of the exterior facade of the carriage
house to include a new carriage door design. This project had previously been
presented to the board. Um, the parcel has been scoped on the 18/19 Sandborn
maps as a two-story brick dwelling with a tin or slate roof and rear wood framed
porch all with shingled roof. A carriage house is shown as 318 12 and comprises a
1.5tory woodframe structure with shingle roof and side portion being onetory
tall. It is also featured in the 1912 map, similarly designed but with a slate
roof. By 1902, the structures on site had uh changed with the carriage house
now being a twostory brick structure with a slater tin roof. The structure
remained on the same uh remained the same in 1907 Sanborn maps but was
updated in 1902 1912 map sorry to include onestory southacing addition
with a slate or tin roof. Um, terms of land use permits, most recent was in
June uh for the emergency repairs to the foundation and exterior wall. Um, staff
recommends that any historic features that can be repaired and restored should
be preserved. The applicant should discuss the current condition of the
facade and proposed window style door style with board members. uh the
appropriateness of the exterior architectural features which can be seen
from a public street or of wideway and the general design or arrangement
texture material and color of the building sign or fence and the relation
of such factors or to similar features in the districts are point of
consideration and then um establishing the um US Secretary of Interior
standards for rehabilitation and guidelines for rehabilitating historic
districts. Um there the enumerated standards in particular uh the historic
character of the property shall be retained and preserved. The removal of
historic materials or alteration of features and spaces that characterize a
property shall be avoided and distinctive features, finishes and
construction techniques or examples of craftsmanship that characterize a
property shall be preserved. That concludes the staff report.
» Thank you, Mr. Whitmore. Um good evening. Would you like to tell us
uh a description of your project? >> Uh yes. My name is uh Ted Hurt and uh
the corporate ownership is actually the uh company called Gard LLC, but I'm the
manager and co-owner. And um I mean by way of background, we
had an emergency permit uh granted uh because basically the the wall uh was
basically literally coming down in April and we had to shore it up. uh and
basically then we filed uh the application and uh we actually were
before this body I believe it is May 20 and at that time uh we walked through
the design proposal which was basically replicating
the carriage door facade style uh somewhat different from what you see
but basically the same style and we submitted the drawings to that effect
and uh Mr. Hartzell is with me and he's also submitted I believe to Mr. Whitmore
uh what the what the U designs would be for the door and windows in question
because that came up at the at the meeting as well. So basically we're
trying to replicate what it was before the collapse of April.
Okay, thank you. I'll open up the floor to the board for comments or questions.
Mr. Schaefer, do you want to start?
So, um, what are you actually then proposing
with this? Um,
okay. We had some question about how the windows were divided in the last month's
discussion and I've been back and and the smaller divisions in the windows
and door are appropriate to the building because the dormers and everything have
very old small pane window. Um,
yeah. I have no questions in regard to this new design.
» Yeah, you're doing the the white board and the brick in between,
» right? >> Yes.
» Yeah. Yep. No questions. >> Down to you, Stephanie?
» No. No questions. >> All right.
I'll go on to the proposed finding effect. The structure at 312 Baltimore
Street is located within the boundaries of the Gettysburg Historic District and
this comes under the review rights of this board. It is subject to oversight
under chapter 11 of the Bureau of Gettysburg Municipal Code which governs
the preservation of historic and architecturally significant areas within
the burrow. It is a sensitive building as defined in the Gettysburg municipal
code being over 50 years old and represents a 19th century brick carriage
house or stable building exhibiting vernacular architecture. The building is
a contributing resource within the Gettysburg Battlefield Historic
District. First depicted on the 1896 Sanborn map and by 1902 the structure is
described in its current form as a one and a halftory brick carriage house with
slate or tin roof and exhibits a simple design which is utilitarian rather than
stylistic emphasizing function over ornament. The building's historic
character is conveyed through its masonry construction, simple massing and
large carriage openings. The proposed work is considered a major project with
the exterior alterations to a sensitive building or site including
reconstruction of exterior facade of rear carriage house to include new
carriage door design as presented in the proposed exterior elevation option two.
The property is viewable from the public way of Baltimore Street and schoolhouse
alley. The Secretary of the Interior Standards
and the Gettysburg Design Guide both play a crucial role in our historic
preservation process. Please consider the following. Standard two, historic
character. The proposed work retains and preserves the historic character of the
property includes including those features, materials, and spatial
relationships that convey its significance as a historic resource.
Standard nine, new work. Any new construction, reconstruction,
replacement, features, or exterior alteration should remain compatible with
the historic character of the property and district while remaining
distinguishable from the original historic fabric. At this point, is there
a motion by this board as to an issuance of a certificate of appropriateness to
burrow counsel for the proposed work? Are there any other conditions or
stipulations that the board would advise?
I also have one comment. >> Go ahead.
» After last meeting, it was recommended that we change to a two panel manor
instead of what was proposed on the design,
» which we did, >> and was recommended that we eliminate
the uh 6 over6 light
windows. >> Mhm. Um there was some controversial
comments made by the board about like the existing windows that wasn't
necessarily true. >> Okay.
» Um but we did eliminate them as well kind of with the board recommendation of
trying to move in that direction. The both structures do have windows that
have grids in them currently. Um but the new window will not based off of what we
heard you guys uh desiring and then the the door will keep
the nine light um extruded or it's in the light. Um
» okay. So so this design is what you're proposing is changed from this design
» those two things. Correct. >> Okay.
Are there any questions from the board based on that comment? And Miss Meer,
that's Darren Hartzell.
» So, you've you've already replaced them, right? Or no?
» Well, we've changed the design to not match that based off of last meeting's
comments, basically. >> Okay.
» All right. So, the two comments were that the the window on the left have no
grids, >> correct? And the second was a instead of
the nine light door or >> instead of a smooth panel door, it's a
two panel. >> Okay.
» To resemble the existing wood two panel door 9 that was there before the
reation.
So, and I think that goes back to your comment about the the light, the divided
light. >> Yeah, we we had basically
focused all on the front elevation and if if that's what we stipulated, I can
go with it. But in going back and walking around more closely after that
last meeting, the windows and everything all have
grids on all the other sides. So, but it it's not inappropriate to
prove what we did la, you know, to continue with what we directed them to
do last month. >> Okay.
It says
using the main house struct using the main house structure.
Yeah, the garden is very short. I don't know. This is so much stuff.
» Basically, the way that I interpreted the meeting and the questions and the
comments from last meeting was that when these bridged windows are being
replaced, >> you guys would like to see
» solid windows. When the rest of these windows
get replaced in this building, they would be getting replaced to match the
house and the new window since we're not doing an entire
renovation. They won't match for now, but when they do get renovated,
the rest of them do get replaced, they at that point match this particular.
» So the so the window on the left is going to be a one over one.
» Correct. >> And then the door will be
» it is a nine light. It will be a nine light.
» It will be a nine light. >> Yeah.
» Just a nine light two panel. Make sure
» Jen whatever
» has the window on the left been bought? >> It has.
» Yeah, cuz that wouldn't match what's shown here for the front building.
» Yeah, we looked at the house. Yeah. >> And took that as the direction.
» We only we only changed it because of the recommendation from the last.
» Mhm. >> Thank you.
» I agree. I think that would look nicer, but
» Okay. Well, is there a motion
Okay, I'll do it. Nobody else will I'll make a motion
to um
to accept the proposal with the clarification
that the window will be a one over one and the door will remain
in my right. Is that what you call it? like my
» Mhm.
» And that the materials are brick
and wood as described. That's wood. Is that That's wood. Okay.
As described in the proposal. >> Okay.
So, it's pretty much the the motion is to be approved as submitted with the
addition of the one over one window, >> right?
» And the nine light. >> Well, I mean, the the door that's there
isn't is a nine light. You're replacing the door with the same door,
» right? A similar door. >> Style door.
» Yeah, same style door. >> Okay. Well, it's just different than
submitted. Okay. Uh, is there a second?
» I'll second. >> Oh, second by Mr. Wit. Uh, all in favor
say I. >> I.
» I. >> All opposed.
None. Okay. Thank you.
» Thanks. and you know to wait until uh the
burough council approves this before you do all your work.
» All right. So that is the end of new business.
We're on to section seven reports.
» Thanks. >> Thank you.
» Thank you.
Is that me or is that you? >> Um, if if you have nothing to report on,
we can provide the the COA. Um, I >> have nothing to report on.
» Okay. Yes, we did have four uh certificates of appropriateness for
minor projects that were administratively approved. Um, those are
provided on the um agenda. The draft chapter 11 historic district ordinance
updates. We received some comment from board members. we provided a draft. Um
the expectation is that at the July 15th meeting, which is going to be here
before we know it, um at that meeting, then we would probably seek a
recommendation for the changes. Um the HARB is providing a recommendation to
council. Ultimately, the historic district is their review. Um
there have been um specific wants that they would like to see specifically as
it relates to administrative processes and providing opportunities for
increased uh um I would say providing opportunities for increased
administrative review to eliminate potential for increased building opport
building building costs associated with having to go through an a longer review
process or potentially really um challen making plans challenging to approve. Um
as it relates to the um revised district standards, we did include the um
revisions to the um district as has previously been
recommended by HARB. Um, additionally, we made changes to reverse language that
uh included should statements for um the professionals that are required to serve
on the board. And then um there were some uh I guess other changes that have
been brought to the attention of the board from public comment. Um I guess
now is this would be the the final opportunity really to put these into a
document to be have a recommendation. We would need any further comments from
board members by when would this be? Next July. It would be July 7th, so next
Tuesday. So we can have it in the agenda for the 15th. Um but otherwise, if
there's any specific pro um properties of this ordinance that you'd like to
discuss, we can we're available right now. Um but we'll have a formal
presentation at next month's meeting. Okay.
» Can you repeat what you said about
what people are looking forward to >> having opportunities for administrative
approvals and there's there are um specifically as it relates to um
review criteria for projects that some some of them
historically may have been permitted or at least they were occurring and not
being enforced upon. Um certain minor activities or certain replacement
activities that were not viewable. Um we'll be providing
that direct information that's in the uh recommended by staff at next month's
meeting, but overall that's direction I've received from council.
» That seems so am I supposed to read into that? like how do I how do I determine
what you're saying? Like I feel like it's
um so there specific examples of things
that they'd like us to consider or think about, but we're not sure what they are
exactly. >> No, no. if they're just looking for
opportunities to streamline the process and to remove the potential for
individuals having to come before this board for improvements. If there's
opportunities where we can have >> oh
» review review not occur through this board but still be acceptable to the
board if that makes sense. >> I misunderstood. No, I I I go on a train
wreck when I when I'm talking.
And I know there was a document that uh that uh Brendan Stone sent about
changing the date of PARB >> that was that was also put into the
ordinance. Um this would have uh let me pull it up.
So this would be uh the board shall meet publicly on the first Wednesday of each
month. um that would potentially enable um quicker review time by the um council
when it comes to the the board's motions. Additionally, we're including
that the applications must be submitted to the bureau of Gettysburg and
determined to be completed by the planning zoning code enforcement officer
or designate at least 15 days prior to scheduled meeting to be included on the
meeting's agenda to provide a deadline. Um the problem we will run into
otherwise is it'll be the day of the meeting and people have an expectation
of being able to be on the agenda. We have to be able to have a deadline
that's then equitable for everyone. >> I have a question. So if they meet the
first Wednesday of the month, would then the council meeting would fall that
following Monday? No, it would be um in most all in most instances it's going to
be the next Monday because the first Monday council does not meet.
» Yeah, there was a whole kind of timeline depending on each which which day of the
month or which Wednesday of the month you uh submitted on and whether it added
time subtracted time to the review process. I think there was one I think
it was the last uh Wednesday you either missed the meeting and it was longer or
you made the meeting and it was shorter. So it spelled out all the advantages and
disadvantages of every Wednesday of that month.
» So there's like four times a year where the Wednesday falls in the same week as
the council meeting.
» You know what I mean? >> Yeah.
» So that's what makes it longer between >> Well, no. The council the council
meeting would never fall directly on the same week because the council meeting is
meeting on the second Monday. They're going to be meeting on the first
Wednesday.
» Like in September >> Yeah.
» council would meet on the 14th. We typically would meet on the 16th.
» Yeah. But they'd meet on September 2nd then because that's the first Wednesday.
Yeah, that's that's what's been recommended by uh Chair Stone.
» Okay. >> And and just to clarify, any comments,
questions, revisions that we have should come to you by the 7th.
» Yeah. That that way we can have them in the packet uh with the hope to get the
packet out either by the 8th or the 9th for next week.
» Okay. >> Because it's we're going to be meeting
in two weeks almost. I know I did hear somewhere probably,
but I didn't find it. Um, is there something with regards to
emergency situations? >> What What do you mean?
» Well, you know, somebody has an emergency. I know that over the course
of the year years there has been situations where for example the food
kitchen the um there was a an emergency and they needed a roof or something um I
can't remember was that it >> shel
» yes >> at the uh
is there situations to is there some is there is there a portion in here that
I've missed >> well no that
» that falls into demolition by neglect. So there's you have situations where the
building starts to fall down, >> right? Yeah.
» That doesn't happen unless when the building's maintained.
» So failure to maintain the structure is resulting in an emergency situation.
» I'll give you an example. Suzanne Christensen just decided to
paint her front door and
then it turned into a bigger project where I was painting another part of my
house and realized when I'm up on the scaffolding that there's rotted wood
that water is coming into a space that was unknown. I don't neglect my house.
It's an it's it's a sort of a similar example where there are times when
you that it's not neglect that it's too far away. We can't see it. It's you know
we see it when it happens. I'm just wondering like that really made me feel
bad that we couldn't deal with that in a timely manner that it had to go.
I mean, and by the way, it made us look terrible, which is not something we
love. >> What do you think?
» Um, I think one, the soup kitchen was unfair
to us because it wasn't the emergency they were talking about. They had known
about it for some time and they had it on their schedule for the for this year
to raise funds and replace the roof. The contractor sort of created it as a
uh emergency situation and when we looked into it and I looked into the
minutes and contacted the soup kitchen um
» it was an emergency. >> It wasn't an emergency and
You're right. It made us look bad, but it was it was an inaccurate portrayal of
what had happened. But I don't want to stop there. Had they come in for a
repair using the same materials, it could have been administratively
approved. >> Okay.
» Immediately. That's what we have in our ordinance. You can re if you're
repairing a situation that needs >> e
» immediate attention and it's maintaining the same materials and everything, you
can do that through administrative approval. It's when they wanted to
change materials or do a new design because there's some long-term design
deficiency, then they then you can get in a bind.
But I don't think we should consider major revisions to materials and design
on a short-term basis because as John said, it's often related to a problem
that needs more significant investigation
because there's a design flaw or something of that nature.
So, I'm comfortable with the repair aspect.
Now there was the the shed that the trash truck dumped dump, you know, and
that came in and that has to be an emergency situation. Demolition was
going to be occurred immediately, you know, without review by the board
because it was unsafe. But that shed stayed up for weeks, you know, and um so
the emergency situations usually are are fire related.
» And we had the one >> on Baltimore Street which just couldn't
be saved. the one where the beautiful shingle style home that
came down, >> the the burned out shell, the 202
Carlile, >> the burned out shell, you know, where
there was some consideration for demolition,
but I want to be careful not to build in some kind of emergency,
» okay, >> thing that doesn't allow us to put the
brakes on it a little bit. >> Right. Okay.
B our BCO is not going to go in and approve demolition willy-nilly
if they know that they're looking at a historic building and they may
reconsider a little bit. I I would note that from an
administrative perspective, when we have requests coming to us for from the
public, an individual seeking immediate repair for an emergency, it's almost
always ex going to be exclusively located on the roof.
Um, one of the problems we've run into as of late is there's a real desire from
our roofing contractors to not utilize three tab asphalt shingles.
So, here we have a situation where someone is arguably putting on a better
type of shingle, but they're not able to do so without coming to this board
first. So that's something that council has indicated they would like to see
opportunities for those administrative approvals to facilitate
situations that it may be an emergency. It may be something that in a week or
two it will still keep but eventually it needs to be replaced in the really near
term. That's something that council wants to see providing more flexibility
to residents.
Reason they don't want to use three tab shingles is they can't keep a straight
line. >> What?
» They can't keep a straight line. Architectural hide it.
» Do they sell three tap shingles? >> Oh, all day long.
» Really? >> Yes, ma'am.
» We're going to move to strike the comment by the BCO.
» It's just his opinion.
Okay. There's nothing else for >> No, I I'm going to ask a question
because I was spending some time in the zoning ordinance
and I'm still in favor of maintaining the height restriction.
Um, it has not stopped critical
projects being in there, but it does allow again kind of a
a review, a slow down, the brakes may take a closer look at this. And in the
zoning ordinance, it's mentioned. Of course, the height is still mentioned
about the difference in how they have to comply with the harb with the historic
district ordinance. And that was one of the critical features
in the original uh the 50-year-old we have uh ordinance
is that to stop the acceleration. So I'm looking at I can be very specific. The
second block of York Street is a twostory block except for St. James
church which anchors the corner has a very distinct character. It's all two
stories. Any type of construction in that that suddenly jumps even to three
stories or three and a half stories is going to be an alien feature in that
block. It's going to change the character of the historic
that block in general. And I think you know the the height of this the town
when we talk about historic character is kind of highest at the core around the
square you have more massive buildings and some height and then as you move out
the buildings become shorter as you go down the streets because you're moving
away from that central core. and it was a critical component of the original
ordinance that that sort of be protected and currently there seem you know
there's an attack on that and I think it's uh dangerous and that's the one
aspect I still see in what's a larger rewrite of the ordinance than I expected
is that diminishing of any control on height
um other than just saying I don't like it
cuz it's too tall. Um but that's that's my opinion and I'm
I'm having having had people approach me as an architect asking,
you know, do you think they'll let us tear this down?
And there were a couple buildings in particular and build a taller building.
And just having the strength of the ordinance stopped some projects
as did the first the first
approaches to me about the me school
and I we may have still been working together at that when some people when
me school went on the market the first approaches to me as an
architect and as chairman of Harb were, would they, you know, can we tear that
down? Because at that time they were looking for a place to put Starbucks
and this was a perfect piece of property and they were it was helpful to have the
strength of the ordinance saying demolition would be very difficult if
not impossible. So I think while
there's frustration at times with the ordinance,
a strong ordinance actually protects the council and it protects the harm and it
protects the burough. And I think efforts to weaken some of
the provisions are not wise.
I can't believe somebody was going to take down this school.
» That was interest from more than one developer.
» Wow. >> Wow.
It wasn't even in bad condition. >> It was bad condition is depends on how
you >> bad condition depends on how you look at
the expense. >> Sure.
» To fix it up or to restore it. >> Yeah. Well, I always say big big
project, big big, you know, um renovations, big money, you know. So,
yeah,
I two things. Um, one is I have reached out to Zach Balo
from the National Park Service, the acting superintendent, and asked the
question, um, if Harb district is to extend up to Seminary Ridge. Um, Red
Patch on Confederate Avenue as well as the McMillan House on Confederate Avenue
both have scenic easements with the National Park Service. So any work
that's done on either of those properties has to have park service
approval. And if those two properties are now included in HARB,
they will the owners will have to go through two different hoops.
And knowing how this board changes and potentially how the park service might
change, there could come a time where the park
service doesn't agree with PARB or vice versa.
And overall, my question to Zach was who will have final word? And Zach said it
will be the National Park Service for those two properties. And he recommended
removing those two properties if it's extended to remove those two properties
from the historic district because they are protected with the National Park
Service. That makes sense. I I think that makes
sense. Um the other thing I know that um Gary and Suzanne we we it is proposed to
change the age of the houses. Is that correct?
» Uh let me see if that's been updated. >> I think the updating
changed that back. >> Did they change it back? Okay. I if I
apologize. >> Yeah, I believe I did.
» Okay. It it was the intent to do so because that was we received negative
comment from that. >> Okay. Okay.
» Yeah. >> Yeah.
» Any building that has been standing for at least 50 years at the time of
application even though has been considerably modified and certain sites
sites or later historic significance or building that the board
has determined to be exemplary of later architectural styles.
So that would be considered as sensitive. That was on page 157.
» I was looking at um the Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission, their
architectural field guide, and the latest period that they um they protect
is from 1925 to 1950, the modern movements um with the international mod
and and um art deco style. So 1950 was their latest date as well as from what I
could find with the Department of the Interior. 1950 was also with the
Department of Interior's latest um property design.
Okay. Any other comments?
Okay, there's another section for public comment if the public needs to
make any final. No.
All right. I guess at this time we have completed the meeting and we need to
make a motion to adjurnn. >> So moved by Mr. Whit. Do we have a
second? >> I'll second it.
» All right. I tied it. >> Yeah,
there we go.