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I'm going to go ahead and call this
meeting to order. This is anformational

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evening meeting tonight only. It's like
a council workshop for us. It's not an

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official meeting. We appreciate
everybody coming this evening. Um Chief

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Felton is going to have a presentation
about cameras and then we'll open the

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floor for questions. We would like
everybody coming up to ask questions.

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Please state your name and we would like
you to ask two questions at a time. two

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questions so we can get through
everybody here. If they want to get up

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and ask, we want to give everybody an
opportunity to get up and and ask

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questions. And if we get through
everybody, then we'll

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we can get back up and ask some more
questions. So, at this time, uh I would

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have introduce C, our chief of police,
Cerfeld, and he'll do his presentation.

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Thank you.
>> Mr. Mayor, may I have one statement

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right before we start here?
>> No, you can make a statement after the

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chief's done.
>> That will

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change in the base all the way around.

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» Good.
>> All right. Yeah. Good. So, if everybody

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doesn't know, I'm coach SC, chief police
here in the back. Um,

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presentation here. I think it's probably
better if I sit for you guys over there.

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Everybody see
you sit down. I'm not

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walk through this. Um,
and if you have any questions and you

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can, you know, obviously it's going to
be crucial for me to get through this if

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we don't stop on every slide. Remember
the opportunity to ask questions that

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you have. So that'll begin.
All right. So is this new is this

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technology new? Um no. This technology
was actually first introduced in the

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1970s.
U the technology started to be deployed

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in law enforcement in America um in the
late 1990s early 2000s.

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So what is an LTR? The license plate
reader is a fixed camera system designed

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to photograph vehicles traveling on
public roadways. It can capture images

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primarily in the rear of the vehicle uh
the time and date as well as the

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location of the camera. The important
distinction here is the system is

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designed to identify vehicles and not
people. The LPR system does not use

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facial recognition and does not collect
biometric information or driver identity

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information.
What happens to the photo that we take?

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So the photo is taken by the LPR camera.
It's then uploaded into a software which

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can recognize the license plate numbers
in the photo. Those numbers are then run

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against a list of plates which are
entered as stolen or somehow tied to a

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criminal investigation. An LPR hit is an
investigative lead, not proof of guilt.

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Officers are required to independent
independently verify the information

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before taking enforcement action. Uh the
software can also filter the images by

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vehicle make such as those listed there,
body style,

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color, and additional characteristics
such as whether a vehicle has a bumper

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sticker, rear window sticker, toolbox,
top rack, or a back rack. These are

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common descriptors which are given
during an investigation as people rarely

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remember or see a license plate. These
filters allow for fewer results during a

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search by only including those vehicles
that match the entered information in

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the results. These photos are deleted
after 30 days from that cloud storage.

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Just kind of a little visual of what
happens there. Uh the camera takes a

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photo of the passing car. It then is
uploaded into the storage. The photo is

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assessed by the storage as discussed in
the last slide. Uh then an officer

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completes a search. That photo is then
pulled down to be used in an

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investigation.

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Uh things license plate readers do not
do. The system does not identify a

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person's face. It does not determine who
is driving the vehicle. Uh it does not

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record conversations or enter a vehicle.
It does not track a person's movements

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inside buildings or record traffic
violations. Does not issue any sort of

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citation or charge. The camera
photographs vehicles visible from public

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locations.

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So, where are these cameras and why? Um,
so we have four LPR cameras on the edges

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of Glenrock and one in Rolling Hills.
The cameras are placed along the four

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main entrances based on these providing
the most opportunity to capture photos

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of vehicles. These are also locations
chosen to reveal nothing more than is

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necessary.

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some of the court cases associated with
these where courts have ruled that block

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cameras are constitutional. Um I'll just
get the key notes here guys the the

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actual court names. United States vers
in 1983

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um was in regard to people's expectation
of privacy regarding a license plate.

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United States versus Martin in 2024
court upheld the use of flock

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information in the circumstances
presented and concluded that the

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defendant did not have a reasonable
expectation of privacy in the vehicle

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information obtained through the system.
Um Smith or city of Norfolk block usage

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with limited retention periods does not
track the whole of a person's movements

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nor does it provide an intimate window
into where citizens drive, park, visit,

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linger, sleep or patronize. Um,
and similar decisions have been made in

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other court cases. Uh, Robinson versus
the Commonwealth and the Virginia Court

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of Appeals. In 2026, the Virginia Court
of Appeals likewise held that the use of

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the Fox system in the circumstances
before it did not constitute an

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unconstitutional search.
Lastly, United States versus Porter

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2026. The United States Court of Appeals
for the Fifth Circuit affirmed the

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district court's rulings. It held that
the use of the LPR system to identify

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Porter's vehicle did not violate Fourth
Amendment because there was no

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reasonable expectation of privacy and
movement on public roads or in license

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plate information and the LPR data was
not as comprehensive as cell site

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location.

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So, some of the benefits to the
community with these cameras, uh, they

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allow for faster investigation time.
Instead of manually reviewing hours of

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video, investigators can search vehicle
information with a defined time and

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location.

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These license plate readers also allow
for recovering the recovery of stolen

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property. Alerts can help officers
locate stolen vehicles more quickly.

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They allow for finding missing people.
Vehicle information can be provided.

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Important vehicle information can
provide an important investigative lead

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when a missing or endangered person is
believed to be traveling by vehicle. Uh

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these cameras can prevent and solve
crime. Um knowing that vehicles

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associated with criminal activity may be
identified can provide an additional

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deterrent.
More efficient use of personnel.

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Automated technology can help
investigators narrow a search and spend

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more time conducting traditional
investigative work.

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So these are a few of the um incidents
cases where in my

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time here um these could have been these
flat cameras could have helped us solve

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these cases a lot sooner. Um
I don't know if you want to go through

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these but May 2020
>> a few of those please sir.

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» I'm sorry. What's that?
>> Could you speak on a few of those? The

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print's pretty small.
>> Yeah. Absolutely. I apologize for that

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guys. In May of 2020, a juvenile female
was picked up in the middle of the night

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in a blue car with out of state plates
and taken out of state. Uh that young

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girl was recovered over a year later,
three states away, living with a sex

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offender.
Uh July 2012, a man broke into an

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elderly woman's home and raped her at
gunpoint. A van believed to be related

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was seen leaving the area. That van had
been borrowed by the suspect on the

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night the incident occurred.
Uh, July 2016, a man's home was

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burglarized while he was in the
hospital. A neighbor reported seeing a

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strange vehicle parked outside
previously, but only recalled the color

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and body style. During the arrest of
those individuals, the vehicle in the

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suspect's driveway match that
description which you've been given.

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» So, out of all those, I see burn up in a
stolen vehicle. Are all these burn up

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that you guys captured that you guys did
by flock?

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» No. Is that what you're saying? These
are these are previous cases that

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occurred prior to the system being in
place that the flock system itself could

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have actually helped us solve through
>> cuz I only see one in

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» every one of those is
>> okay which is 2012 all the way back to 8

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years before
>> y 10 years

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» I've been here since 2010 and so these
are some from the time that I've been

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here
>> and you've had these up since 2022

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correct
>> 2024.

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» Oh
>> yeah. So again, what I'm saying is these

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are cases that took place prior to the
cameras being there that these cameras

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could have actually helped us out
sooner.

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» Thank you.
>> Uh March 2023, a suspicious vehicle was

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reported parked for 5 days on private
property without explanation. The

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vehicle was listed as stolen by another
agency.

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June 2014, a man traveling across state
lines and stealing cars passed through

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Glenro in a stolen vehicle and stole
another vehicle.

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used some of the recent cases that we've
had in the last couple of months uh

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where the the system was actually used
to help us in identifying the

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individuals involved. Um when they left
here, a male individual entered a local

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gas station and engaged in an
altercation with the clerk. The male

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left the station prior to officer's
arrival. However, the vehicle he was

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arriving was caught on surveillance
video using descriptors. A photo of the

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vehicle was located in the FPR system
and using the plate number as well as

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follow-up investigation, the driver was
identified and charged. The male was not

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a Gok resident and likely would not have
returned to the area or been identified

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without these cameras.
Uh over here on the right, a local

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resident reported an unknown female
walking around their property and

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peering into the windows of their home.
They stated she had caught this on their

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home surveillance system.
A still shot of the unknown female was

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posted to Facebook asking for help
identifying the woman. The resident said

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the responses were not helpful and
included accusations that the woman had

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been doing this for a while. And another
stated she was likely in

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that says anger, but it means supposed
to be danger and having a mental

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episode. The resident showed the video
and using descriptors of the vehicle the

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woman pulled up in, we were able to find
the car and plate number. The woman was

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then contacted and explained that she
was in town looking at real estate

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listings for a possible move.

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So, what about safeguards? Well,
responsible use does matter. As with any

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tool, we dictate acceptable use by
policy as well as regular audit. Users

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are required to possess proper
credentiing. The image is deleted after

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30 days unless used as evidence in a
case. When performing searches, an

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offense type, case number, and reason
for the search is required. We offer a

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transparency portal where our our
policies display as well as an audit log

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available for the last 30 days.
[clears throat]

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As new updates or options become
available, they're reviewed and if

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beneficial use.

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So this is um a look inside of the
system. Actually, these are some of the

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things that we have for options as far
as selecting and unselecting things. Um,

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for those of you who can't see, uh, we
do have the audit assistance enabled.

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Um, as far as being able to receive
requests from federal agencies for

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sharing, that is disabled.

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So, when we go into the system, this is
what you actually see when you're about

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to perform a search.
Well, you can't all see, but there are

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little red
hyphens here in the required fields.

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Those fields are offense type, case
number, and reason.

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When you're going to perform the search,
what you would do is obviously complete

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those three fields. Then down below, if
you have a license plate, you could

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enter it there. If you know the state,
you could enter it there. U or you come

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down here and you enter the things that
you do have like body, make, those sorts

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of things. You can then select the time
frame and you hit search. This is what

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you would get from that search. Assuming
you were searching a black SUV,

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responsible employment. Uh five
principles. Number one, legality operate

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with we operate within federal and state
constitutional requirements. Two,

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purpose limitation. The use of the
system is for legitimate purposes,

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public safety and investigative purposes
only. Number three, accountability.

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Audit searches and investigate misuse.
Number four, data minimization. We only

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keep information as long as reasonably
necessary and legally permitted. Number

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five, transparency. Give the community
clear information about how the

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technology is deployed and go.
>> On on three there, who audits the

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searches and investigative misuse? Hi.
[clears throat]

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» Um, and on on number four, what how long
do you consider reasonably

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uh reasonably necessary
>> as far as retention goes?

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» Yeah, it seems kind of
>> So 30 days is what they're retained for.

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» Okay.
>> So guys, if you let me complete that, it

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actually does say 30 days earlier in the
system. It also says that on our

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transparency portal as well as other
things that is included in the software

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and the software is what actually
automatically deletes that from the

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cloud.

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Um our transparency portal punch that
link real quick.

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It's going to come up for me.

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You probably open the file outside of
the presentation. See if you should be

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00:14:38,079 --> 00:14:42,040
able to see it.
>> Yeah.

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All right. So, this is our transparency
portal. This is located on the town's

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web page under the police department for
anybody who wants to go to it at any

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time.

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00:15:01,279 --> 00:15:06,800
» How long has this been in place?
>> This So, they actually just came out

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with transparency portal, I believe, in
July.

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» Oh,
>> to my knowledge.

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So, we've been working on getting it up
and running since.

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So, some of the things on here, um, it
does include some of the news articles

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00:15:22,079 --> 00:15:29,680
and such, um, locally regarding the LPR
systems, things that they have helped in

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solving.
Um, obviously these update as they

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become available.
So, you can see the data usage summary.

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Uh data retention is 30 days. Total
number of cameras five.

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Um the unique vehicles detected is
meaning vehicles that have never passed

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the the uh cameras in that prior 30
days.

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So the number of searches that were
completed in the last 30 days was six.

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Um

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00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:07,519
hot list alerted on uh national
statewide hot list sources. It's just

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showing you the sources. There wasn't
actually any hot listed, which is what

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it shows over here.
>> Does it look for all offense types or

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just a few
>> offense types when you search or just

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right now?
>> Because it says top.

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» So, these are the ones that were
searched. It's just showing you the

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three different search.
>> If if somebody's sex offender someplace

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and they end up here even though they're
not supposed to be.

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» So, that is actually an option. We did
use that at one point. We've since

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deactivated it. Um because the in the
beginning

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uh a number of these things the software
right since 2024 they've both added and

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uh changed a number of things. Um in the
beginning it was kind of an all or

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nothing thing and since then they've
allowed for that other page you know

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which is options you can turn on and
off.

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» Now would that include if there was an
Amber?

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» Yep. That would include that option.
Yep. If one of those vehicles had passed

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our stuff, that would actually change.
>> Yep.

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» One one quick question on this with the
uh the list of searches when you you

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scroll up back to the six searches or
whatnot. Now, I understand that you guys

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might have to do some investigation and
not potentially show this information

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until an investigation has been active.
So, what triggers that number to go up?

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» Six.
>> Yeah. anytime it's searched that number

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goes up
>> in the last 30 days.

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» In the last 30 days. Yeah. And it'll it
automatically does that in the system.

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So it's not like I'm going in and
uploading, you know, tomorrow for the

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last 30 days. It actually automatically
will change to include what's today?

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25th. So we go back to the 25th of July.
So tomorrow it's going to bump from July

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26 to 26.
>> What's test mean?

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» What does test mean?
>> Yeah. When you do a search, you need to

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put test. I would actually rather just
get through this if that's all right and

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then I'll answer those questions
question.

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» All right. So down here go down a little
further. It talks about some of the

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policy and trust things. Uh what's
detected license plates vehicles. Just

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goes over some information here guys.
And honestly I'm not going to waste too

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much time going through all of this with
you because this is completely available

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to everybody to review when you get home
and the rest of it. Um down here on the

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bottom you can actually download the
last 30 days worth of searches. Um again

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that's completely available to you.
>> What does that mean? Just tell me what

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that means.
>> What?

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» So um you can download the last 30 days
of searches. So if I went home and

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downloaded that it would show the six
searches that were made. Yep.

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» And it would show what you were looking
for case number was and would show the

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picture of the vehicle. So it it does
withhold some information because as was

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brought up by the gentleman over here u
some of the cases are obviously current

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in the last 30 days. So case numbers
aren't going to be in there, license

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plate numbers aren't going to be in
there, but it would show you the search

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parameters if you why it was undertaken.
>> Yeah.

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» But how does that lead to
>> Would you guys let him finish the

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00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:10,200
presentation and you can get up and come
to the podium and ask questions?

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So also included here guys some myths
versus facts with some information for

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00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:23,039
you down at the bottom. Our policy is
actually attached as well as some

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additional information on another.
So

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00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:31,720
with that said we can move on to
questions.

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00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:39,799
If you have questions for Chief Felner,
please come to the podium and state your

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name and ask the questions.

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00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:55,600
Hi, my name is Mark Manel.
I got involved with this talking to the

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mayor in the town park.
I guess I'm not playing jeopardy right

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00:19:57,360 --> 00:20:05,280
and stating a question, am I? But the
reason I got involved with this was the

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00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:08,559
mayor lied to me about these flop
cameras. How did I lie to you about the

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flot camera?
>> That you didn't know anything about it.

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That the chief did it by himself and by
>> I told you they were bought they were

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brought in and put in during the budget
session and I knew where they were at.

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So go ahead and make your false
statement

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» and you all lied at the last
same thing that you didn't know about

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» until he

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» you had I don't know about him. That was
not our advisor session. We can do that.

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But then again to my
brought to my attention here as we came

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in to hear the January or the July 27th
meeting you were on Mike

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for giggling about that these things
have been here for four years already

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00:20:55,200 --> 00:21:02,080
and we're just now figuring it out. And
you ran it through the budget

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00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:09,039
through like a snake so nobody knew
about it. You're on mike for that sir.

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00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:14,880
Everything we do is your honest is open.
You are probably my church and we do our

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00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:20,840
budget. Thank you.
>> Just so you know, our flag system

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00:21:16,559 --> 00:21:20,840
cameras have been in for 4 years.

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00:21:27,360 --> 00:21:34,080
and let him speak.
>> So, I know we have four years ago.

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00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:38,880
» Please sit down and let him finish.
>> No, that's we'll get to everybody. Let

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00:21:36,799 --> 00:21:41,919
them do their questions, but you've lied
to us on this the whole time here.

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00:21:40,559 --> 00:21:44,799
» No, we haven't. So, go ahead.
>> And this we said we had them four years

293
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:48,799
ago.
>> Well, I was mistaken. You you you never

294
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:52,000
made a mistake in your life.
>> You snaked it through.

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00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:58,679
» No, we didn't snake it anywhere.
>> It's your voice, Mr. Mayor. It's your

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00:21:55,039 --> 00:21:58,679
comments, not mine.

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00:21:59,039 --> 00:22:03,760
» I've got about two minutes of context
with my question. So, if you bear with

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00:22:02,559 --> 00:22:07,360
me, please let me know if I'm talking
your ears off. Uh, a couple of years

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00:22:05,679 --> 00:22:11,520
ago, I spoke of my concerns with the
flock cameras in Rolling Hills. Um,

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00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:14,480
since then, I've discussed the issue
with many people. In these

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00:22:13,039 --> 00:22:18,799
conversations, I've said the same thing
again and again. These are good people

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00:22:16,559 --> 00:22:21,440
with an evil tool in their hands.
>> Pardon me, sir. Would you please give us

303
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,799
your name?
>> I'd be happy to. I reside in Rolling

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00:22:23,120 --> 00:22:28,480
Hills. My name is Alex Smith.
>> Thank you.

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00:22:25,919 --> 00:22:32,640
» I'm sorry. I was just telling you you're
good people.

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00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:36,559
» Um, as best I understand, our police see
the lost child quickly found, the

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00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:40,799
tragedy averted. They see a safer and
happier community. But in these

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00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:45,280
conversations, time and again, I hear
people expressing anger and frustration.

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00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:49,600
I hear people concerned their community
is being subjected to unamerican

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00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:53,760
warrantless surveillance. I hear
concerns that evidence gathered without

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00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:58,240
a warrant gets thrown out and that
genuine dangers to our community would

312
00:22:55,520 --> 00:23:01,919
persist. I hear fears of the potential
loss of funds from our community from

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00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:06,159
lawsuits.
I hear people talking about freedom of

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00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:10,720
information requests for data related to
the day-to-day activities our

315
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:15,840
representatives or publication. I hear
fear of abuse of these systems, concern

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00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:22,000
that someone who should not have access
could get into these systems could see

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00:23:17,919 --> 00:23:26,480
you leave your house and rob you.
And I also hear people say, "Well, I'm

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00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:30,480
not doing anything wrong. What's wrong
with this?" To that, I say you need to

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00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:34,480
spend some time and talk with some
defense lawyers. As I understand it,

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00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:38,960
there are people in this country that
are serving 8 years in prison for moving

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00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:43,760
lobsters from one place to another. They
use plastic bags instead of cardboard.

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00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:48,240
There are quotes out there that some
attorneys suspect that every average

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00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:53,039
American is committing about three
felonies a day. They don't even know we

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00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:56,400
have that many laws. We have treaties
where we honor the laws of other

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00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:59,120
countries. Even like no person could
know everything that they're doing and

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00:23:57,679 --> 00:24:04,880
what might be considered wrong under the
eyes of the law. This technology in this

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00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:08,640
legal landscape threatens everyone
because everyone is technically guilty

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00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:14,000
of something. And I'm not talking about
immorality or anything here. So again,

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00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:17,840
you're good people. You have an evil
tool in your toolbox. I would really

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00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:23,600
appreciate it if you would consider
putting on the um agenda for next

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00:24:20,559 --> 00:24:27,679
meeting to terminate this contract, ban
flock drones, and take down the cameras.

332
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,919
I appreciate your time.
>> Thank you.

333
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:46,559
Hello council and chief. Thank you
everyone who made this meeting possible

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00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:52,000
and I would like to speak along the
lines as our last speaker just about the

335
00:24:50,159 --> 00:24:58,240
» tell us your name. Oh, my name is Tim
Kane and I write I reside in Ring Hills

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00:24:55,279 --> 00:25:03,120
in the the back side of Ring Hills. And
um lastly, I'd like to just speak about

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00:25:00,559 --> 00:25:06,960
the national conversation that's going
on about these cameras and the use of

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00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:11,760
these types of systems, not just lock,
but there are multiple types of these

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00:25:09,039 --> 00:25:15,600
systems. And so there's a national
debate going on right now, not not just

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00:25:14,159 --> 00:25:20,080
but the whole country, and has been
downplayed by some license plate

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00:25:17,679 --> 00:25:24,480
readers. But that's only a small part of
this conversation. The real heart of

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00:25:22,159 --> 00:25:29,279
this conversation and debate is about
the individual and his right or her

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00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:33,200
right to be responsible for their own
safety and make their own decisions

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00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:37,360
about how to be safe and secure in their
daily lives. And right now this is under

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00:25:35,919 --> 00:25:42,640
attack by people who have good
intentions but they are good intentions

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00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:47,440
by force. also not to be under
surveillance everywhere they go so that

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00:25:44,799 --> 00:25:52,880
they feel a sense of freedom and a a
sense of space that we all crave. The

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00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:57,200
real debate is whether or not government
will allow the individual to make these

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00:25:55,039 --> 00:26:01,279
choices or will it be decided for them
by those who know better and have only

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00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:04,480
the best intentions.
The very designed purpose of our

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00:26:02,799 --> 00:26:10,000
national constitution and the
constitution in all 50 states is to

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00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:14,159
recognize the individual and to protect
and defend and promote the rights of the

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00:26:11,919 --> 00:26:19,120
individual specifically protect from
government and 100% from the majority

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00:26:17,039 --> 00:26:22,559
rule.
The way that the rights of the

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00:26:20,799 --> 00:26:26,640
individual are protected is by
confirming that individual rights come

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00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:31,120
from God and are not privileges that are
granted by government that the people

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00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:36,799
have created.
A well-meaning government, even

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00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:40,480
supported by the majority, whatever the
public at large, cannot infringe upon

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00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:47,600
the rights of the individuals. All of
our constitutions state this and demand

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00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:51,440
that our public officials abide by this.
The individual is guided and held to

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00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:55,840
account by a moral code of conduct
conduct in society and society is given

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00:26:54,159 --> 00:27:00,080
the job of considering and bringing to
bear punishment and accountability for

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00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:04,679
breaking the moral code handed down from
Almighty God and given to Moses.

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00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:11,840
We all know that security cameras are
everywhere and nearly everywhere and and

365
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:16,640
everyone says, "So why is this
different? What's the big deal?" Well,

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00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:22,559
for most people of the liberty mindset,
99% of all these other cameras are

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00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:25,919
either belong to private individuals or
private companies.

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00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:29,200
It's different when any part of the
government decides to make your

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00:27:27,279 --> 00:27:33,600
day-to-day comeings and goings a part of
a surveillance program. That is nothing

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00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:38,480
more than a crime looking for a person
or a suspicious overseer waiting to make

371
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:44,080
an accusation. At least this is the
perception and the the the question is

372
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:48,320
going around the country. All available
information currently shows that this is

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00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:51,440
to be is the case and across the country
it has been shown that any amount of

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00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:56,320
good that has come from these types of
systems surveillance that they're

375
00:27:54,000 --> 00:28:03,600
overshadowed by corruption and misuse of
these systems. Sometimes these these

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00:28:00,559 --> 00:28:07,840
these misuses are still also
well-meaning, but they're misuses and

377
00:28:05,120 --> 00:28:12,000
and they certain times they people go
outside of the parameters that which

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00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:15,520
they have been told to they told the
community that they're not going to. And

379
00:28:13,919 --> 00:28:20,720
to be clear, I am not in any way
suggesting that any member of our town

380
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:26,880
government or our law enforcement
here um is planning to or to misuse this

381
00:28:24,799 --> 00:28:31,679
program. that evidence shows that the
potential for harm across the country is

382
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:35,840
is shown that the potential for harm
outweighs the potential for good.

383
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:39,840
There's been studies shown that in large
metropolitan areas where these cameras

384
00:28:37,279 --> 00:28:46,000
have been used for 10 years plus that
the the actual the lowering of crime

385
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:51,200
rates in those in those areas and the
actual meaningful arrest had had not

386
00:28:48,159 --> 00:28:55,279
increased even a single percent. But yet
the cost of these things are enormous to

387
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:58,640
the people and that's another thing the
government is supposed to protect is to

388
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:03,679
look at what they're spending the money
that's belongs to the people on. And so

389
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:09,600
I'm asking on behalf of myself and other
members of the community to remove and

390
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:14,080
ban forever these types of destroyers of
freedom and liberty and uphold and

391
00:29:12,159 --> 00:29:18,880
defend the rights of the individuals as
requested and required by our national

392
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:24,320
and state constitutions which are the
highest laws of the land.

393
00:29:21,679 --> 00:29:30,080
And it and at first and they're also the
first grant of power entrusted to all of

394
00:29:26,799 --> 00:29:34,480
you who have chosen to serve the people
that you must abide by these

395
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:39,760
constitutions which are the highest law
of the land. And they they say as our

396
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:44,159
founders have that these things should
not be.

397
00:29:41,679 --> 00:29:48,799
I'm going to quote really quick. Daniel
Webster, one of our founders, is hardly

398
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:52,960
too strong to say that the Constitution
was made to guard the people against the

399
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:58,000
dangers of good intentions. There are
men in all ages who mean to govern well,

400
00:29:55,600 --> 00:30:03,840
but they mean to govern. They promise to
be good masters, but they mean to be

401
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:09,039
masters. And Thomas Jefferson remarked
in questions of power then let no more

402
00:30:06,399 --> 00:30:13,679
be heard of confidence in man but bind
him down for mischief which is what has

403
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:18,480
been happening across the country by the
change of the constitutions. It is your

404
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:23,120
duty. It is it is all of our duty to
follow the constitutions and to make it

405
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:27,960
our our primary law. I thank you for
your time and and thank you everyone for

406
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,960
coming tonight.

407
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,679
Please give the people a chance to come
up and ask their questions before you

408
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,960
get up and wait.
>> Sorry, I don't have a couple questions.

409
00:30:38,159 --> 00:30:43,679
» Thank you.
>> Hi. Um, I'm Amy Smith. I live in Rolling

410
00:30:41,279 --> 00:30:48,960
Hills. I just have like five questions
for the chief. Um,

411
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:52,640
okay. So, we were talking about that
30-day

412
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:57,919
um data retention and that's like the
license plate, right?

413
00:30:55,279 --> 00:31:01,840
» Okay. So, cuz Flock is a software
company and so I'm assuming that like

414
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:06,960
all the other software companies that
we're interacting with, they're

415
00:31:03,039 --> 00:31:12,159
collecting user data, metadata, etc.
location data that can maybe on the

416
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:16,640
individual level not be so valuable, but
on the aggregate level, maybe not even

417
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:22,080
that we see at all, but that flock could
see, they can make a lot of money um

418
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:24,880
making that data anonymous and selling
it on the exchange. Do you know anything

419
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:28,320
about that? Have they told you anything
about that from the flock side of things

420
00:31:26,559 --> 00:31:30,720
» about whether they do that or
>> Yeah. If they're selling um the user

421
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:34,080
data at all
>> in the contract it states that they're

422
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:38,159
not allowed to sell the data.
>> They're not allowed to sell but like

423
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:41,440
just the license plate data or they can
anonymize it

424
00:31:39,679 --> 00:31:43,679
» so what they use is I think you're
talking about another portion of the

425
00:31:42,399 --> 00:31:46,320
contract that talks about them having
the ability to anonymize the data.

426
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:52,799
» Sure.
>> Then use it to train their own software.

427
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:58,080
Oh, well, they can use it to group a lot
of those data pieces together and

428
00:31:54,960 --> 00:32:02,080
strategically sell them. Um, plenty of
companies buy and sell each other's

429
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:06,640
data. So, I'm assuming Fluck does this
in some way, but it might just be a

430
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:10,080
couple steps removed from just the
actual in town. So, you you

431
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,559
» if they're selling it, it would be in
violation of the agreement,

432
00:32:11,519 --> 00:32:16,799
» right? I'm not saying it's like there's
only my license plate, but like maybe

433
00:32:14,159 --> 00:32:21,039
just like the entire, you know, pattern
of movements of the state of Wyoming can

434
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:24,480
get condensed and sold or maybe the
whole front range cuz, you know, it's

435
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:28,559
really detractive to some advertisers.
I'm I'm just guessing. Okay. Well, just

436
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:33,279
look at that. Um, just another tech
question. Sorry.

437
00:32:31,039 --> 00:32:37,760
Okay. I don't know a ton about
encryption, but I keep hearing about how

438
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:42,000
end to end the encryption of all this
data kind of lies within the Flock

439
00:32:39,679 --> 00:32:48,080
system. Is that correct?
>> As far as you know. Okay.

440
00:32:45,039 --> 00:32:52,720
So, basically it's kind of a lot of this
is out of like the Glenrock PD's hands

441
00:32:50,399 --> 00:32:57,440
like once the information is collected
by flock like there's that period of 30

442
00:32:55,279 --> 00:33:01,360
days and in that period of 30 days or
seven if it gets reduced technically

443
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:05,279
they can do whatever they want with the
data right because I haven't seen the

444
00:33:02,799 --> 00:33:09,039
terms of the the contract with the PD
contract in front of me. I know that uh

445
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:13,360
I mean it's out there but I have read
it. So technically there's a number of

446
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:15,200
things that they in that contract they
are not

447
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:18,640
» right because like I don't think they're
going to try and sell that like I went

448
00:33:17,039 --> 00:33:21,679
to grocery store or anything like that
like the one time but the aggregate

449
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,519
tends to have a lot of value
>> if you're implying that they're lying to

450
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:28,320
me.
>> Oh it would be like

451
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:30,399
» well okay so do you know how long has
been around?

452
00:33:29,039 --> 00:33:33,600
» Do I I I don't know.
>> Okay. So apparently they were found out

453
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,760
in 2017
and how long they've I'm so sorry. How

454
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:40,399
long?
>> 24. We our cameras went up in 2020.

455
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:42,159
» Okay. How long have you been with the
police department?

456
00:33:41,279 --> 00:33:46,640
» 2010.
>> Okay. Wow. So longer the Flock has been

457
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:51,279
around. That's kind of cool. So I mean
that's neat. Okay. Um are there any

458
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:55,919
other companies that you know of that do
what Flock does? Like does Flock have

459
00:33:53,039 --> 00:34:01,120
any competitors?
>> Axon one that also sells systems. Yes.

460
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:05,440
» Okay.
>> If Flock scares you, Axon will

461
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:08,480
terrorize. I I've never heard of them.
Okay,

462
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:11,520
» guys. Let her speak.
>> No, it's fine. It's fine. I appreciate I

463
00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:14,399
appreciate that. I just never knew if
they had any competitors or not. And

464
00:34:12,879 --> 00:34:18,159
lately, I feel like all I've been
hearing about is them. And so, good to

465
00:34:16,639 --> 00:34:23,119
know that there are others out there.
Um, so just just really quickly just to

466
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:26,639
kind of go back to it for those 30 days
that Flock has the aggregated user data

467
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:30,639
of the comingings and goings of the
people of this town, they could

468
00:34:29,359 --> 00:34:35,280
technically do whatever they want with
it, even though it's more like not

469
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:37,359
asking for permission, but asking for,
you know, forgiveness later on. Is that

470
00:34:36,720 --> 00:34:41,119
correct?
>> I can't answer that question. You're

471
00:34:39,599 --> 00:34:43,119
assuming that they're lying to me.
>> No, it's not even lying. It's just I

472
00:34:42,720 --> 00:34:46,079
mean,
>> they certainly haven't told me that

473
00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:48,480
they're doing that. Another way the data
is in their control, right? They own the

474
00:34:48,079 --> 00:34:53,440
data.
>> It is inside of a storage system.

475
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:56,440
» There
you

476
00:34:56,639 --> 00:34:59,639
go.

477
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:07,359
» All right. Hi. Uh my name is James Kane.
I live here in Glenrock.

478
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:11,520
My main issue with the with the fly
cameras is not necessarily like you guys

479
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:14,880
being able to find, you know, a
kidnapper or something like that along

480
00:35:13,359 --> 00:35:21,040
those lines. I think that that's a
that's a good thing that can be used.

481
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:25,040
there is the problem with uh misuse. Um
like I said pointed out in your

482
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:30,079
presentation that you were the only one
that does the in you know investigations

483
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:35,520
and audits and things like that. And the
the primary problem with this is that

484
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:38,960
all of this stuff it's not like a closed
camera system. I'd be happier with a

485
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:44,079
closed camera system that you guys just
had here at the police station. But then

486
00:35:41,359 --> 00:35:47,119
it goes out all over the web. All right.
Now, we can talk about securities and

487
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:51,119
this and that that nobody will
understand in this room and all this

488
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:57,040
stuff for hours. The problem is things
like FBI uh databases, uh Pentagon

489
00:35:54,880 --> 00:36:01,440
databases, all this stuff has been
breached by hackers throughout the

490
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:06,400
world. There's already the reason why
these things have been around for such a

491
00:36:03,599 --> 00:36:12,160
time and they're only now be gaining
traction and people coming against them

492
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:16,480
is because there has been issues, right?
We can't change the law until there's an

493
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:20,720
issue with the law, right? Or things
that are going on in the public.

494
00:36:19,119 --> 00:36:24,960
So,
basically,

495
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:31,440
how could is there any way that we can
make this system a Glenrock system, not

496
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:34,560
a flock system that goes around the
world for whatever to see because

497
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:39,200
there's already
>> uh there's already breaches of uh stuff

498
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:44,079
elsewhere. I don't know. It was Poland
to tell with VPNs and how they bounce it

499
00:36:41,599 --> 00:36:50,400
around because if you guys could track
where it was leaked to all, excuse me,

500
00:36:47,119 --> 00:36:54,320
all of the uh all of the scammers and
everybody in the world would already be

501
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:59,119
caught. You know what I mean? Cuz
there's too many things for it to go

502
00:36:55,920 --> 00:37:05,440
around. Um that's my that's my point. I
just wanted to know instead of the flock

503
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:09,599
cameras, we have a maybe our own system
or something like that that's not

504
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:14,720
broadcast around the world to parts
unknown data brokers. We don't know.

505
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:17,599
Once it's out there, we don't have
access to it, but somebody does.

506
00:37:16,850 --> 00:37:21,640
[snorts]
Thank you. Thank you.

507
00:37:26,079 --> 00:37:33,680
» Hi, I'm Sherin Kovatch. Uh, I grew up
here in Glenrock and I have a whole list

508
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:41,440
of questions, but and I will save my
opposition for the city council meeting

509
00:37:35,599 --> 00:37:48,800
on the 14th. Um, I also second the
motion to not renew the contract uh for

510
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:56,240
many reasons that have been stated. So,
I will limit my questions starting with

511
00:37:53,359 --> 00:38:05,040
uh this one.
The order from page rock 0002

512
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:10,240
say initial term of 24 and uh a 24
months and a renewal a renewal term of

513
00:38:07,839 --> 00:38:14,640
24 months not one year. The agreement
says that the term begins with the

514
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:21,119
cameras are installed and validated and
the log shows the system life by

515
00:38:17,119 --> 00:38:25,520
midocctober 2024. What is the exact date
uh this contract auto renews? What is

516
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:31,119
the exact deadline for the town's 30
days written notice of nonrenewal and

517
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:34,599
will we have a chance to speak on it is
my first question.

518
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:48,320
» Um the renewal date is October 14th. The
30-day window would be September.

519
00:38:41,599 --> 00:38:55,280
» Okay. Okay. And then the next question,
Chief Felton, on December 8th, 2025, you

520
00:38:52,079 --> 00:39:00,079
ran two searches logged uh to a real hit
and run case for a white ram pickup

521
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:05,359
truck. 2 hours later, you ran roughly 40
more uh searches logged only as test. No

522
00:39:03,119 --> 00:39:12,160
case number. six of them filtering for
RAM uh using the same time window and

523
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:17,520
the extend uh and then extending it for
4 days further back. What are those uh

524
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:25,119
40 searches actually looking for
considering their tests and why the

525
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:32,640
test? And maybe explain what test means
because there is an awful lot of tests

526
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:38,480
in the 375
different logs that were audited since

527
00:39:35,359 --> 00:39:40,800
the start of this.
>> Yeah,

528
00:39:39,359 --> 00:39:48,240
» for now.
>> All right, we'll try and get all those

529
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:54,720
questions. Um, so December 2025.
>> Yeah, it was December 8th, 2025.

530
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:57,920
» I I apologize. I That's a year ago. I
can't remember exactly what that was. I

531
00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:01,599
can tell you that when something like
test is entered in there, it's either

532
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:05,520
for training or we're training a new
person on the system or some sort of an

533
00:40:04,240 --> 00:40:10,160
update.
>> Can I answer her question first? Sure.

534
00:40:08,079 --> 00:40:16,000
You're welcome afterwards to ask her.
>> Okay. So um either training of a new

535
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:19,760
person or some sort of a new feature is
added to the system. So we go in and

536
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:26,240
then we have to retrain on that system
for the new features.

537
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:28,880
» So that is 40 searches within hours of
that

538
00:40:26,720 --> 00:40:31,880
» without being able to go back. I
apologize.

539
00:40:37,599 --> 00:40:45,839
» Okay. And then back to my first
question, will the community have a

540
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:51,760
chance to speak on it? And will the city
council actually take the community's

541
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:56,240
opinion into consideration?
>> We will take items from the floor and

542
00:40:53,520 --> 00:41:00,000
yes, in a in a in a legal council
meeting where we can make a vote, we

543
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:03,240
will discuss that.
>> Thank you.

544
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:12,079
Hi. Uh, my name is Brett Kenway. I live
here in Glenrock. Um, I'm going to be

545
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:18,240
pretty quick and just be kind of matter
of fact. Um, so since

546
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:21,520
2024, I guess we've had these cameras
for 2 years now. Since since those

547
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:28,160
cameras went up, how many times have
they actually actively led to some sort

548
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:35,040
of arrest or some sort of I guess result
would be uh the word I'm looking for in

549
00:41:31,119 --> 00:41:38,480
in an active investigation um that's
been used to like you know close a case

550
00:41:36,720 --> 00:41:42,319
or something like that.
>> I would estimate that it could be about

551
00:41:40,079 --> 00:41:46,000
10 to 12 times that we've used that
system that would

552
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:49,359
» and are you able to speak on like what
kinds of cases those were? Is it is that

553
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:53,040
something that you're allowed to talk
about or um

554
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:56,800
» I mean visually I can't talk about but a
lot of them are usually uh missing

555
00:41:54,720 --> 00:42:02,560
people checks that kind of thing.
>> Okay. Okay. I just I I bring it up just

556
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:06,240
because of there's kind of a heavy
emphasis on like the Amber Alert things

557
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:10,720
and stuff that you guys brought up
earlier and for for two years it just

558
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:14,319
you know in a town of 2400 people how
many how many people can possibly go

559
00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:18,760
missing? And I guess the answer is about
five a year or six a year.

560
00:42:19,359 --> 00:42:26,079
job. So the actual idea and the the
reason for no network versus closed

561
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:29,680
network does that make sense with the
sharing of other cameras and such is

562
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:34,079
because it's not just our amber alerts
that we right alert would be those

563
00:42:32,319 --> 00:42:36,480
entered by other agencies
>> right

564
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:40,640
» from anywhere
>> and and and I totally get that

565
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:45,520
understand um
>> but the question kind of stands like of

566
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:52,560
those 10 to 12 cases how many of those
were like interstate or inter county or

567
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:59,200
inner you know, larger than the town.
>> Um,

568
00:42:54,480 --> 00:43:03,760
» just just thank you. Um, yeah, just just
that seems like and remind me, I'm

569
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:09,040
sorry, I'm not 100% clear. I've seen
different figures. What was the total

570
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:13,040
cost to the town of Glenrock? Like to us
for those cameras to this point.

571
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:16,640
» So, for the first year of the contract,
I believe was roughly 19,000. It might

572
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:21,599
have been just over that. Um, that
included installation costs. The second

573
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:24,079
year of that contract was 15,000. It's
$3,000 per camera per year.

574
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:27,680
» Okay.
>> Multiply that by the five cameras that

575
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:31,280
we use, 15 for the year. The first one
did include more just because of the um

576
00:43:30,240 --> 00:43:34,599
installation cost.
>> Right. Okay.

577
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:41,040
And again, I I want to be clear, but
just by saying like my main concern

578
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:46,000
isn't, you know, how much of this is
coming out of my paycheck, but um more

579
00:43:43,839 --> 00:43:50,640
so the privacy aspect. It just doesn't
seem like, you know, 10 or 12 people

580
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:56,240
over two years. I not that we should not
look for people. Um I don't want to get

581
00:43:53,760 --> 00:44:00,319
conflated or twisted there, but um it
just it just doesn't seem like the the

582
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:07,920
amount of what I would consider invasion
of privacy um to kind of be congruent

583
00:44:04,240 --> 00:44:11,200
with those results. Um
so that that was kind of all the

584
00:44:09,599 --> 00:44:15,640
questions I had. So thanks for your
time.

585
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:15,640
» Thank you. Thank you. APPRECIATE IT.

586
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:24,560
UH TO ADD TO HER question though, how
many officers Jack Street, I'm a

587
00:44:21,599 --> 00:44:27,520
resident going out here. Uh in the last
year, how many new cops have you had

588
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:30,520
» in the last year?
>> Yeah,

589
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:36,560
» I would estimate three or four.
>> Which ones?

590
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:39,359
» Which new officers last year? Two of
them were in the academy right now.

591
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:43,119
» Oh, they're still in the academy.
>> On the street.

592
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:47,839
» Okay. Okay. So I was just wondering when
you say training in the last year, how

593
00:44:45,359 --> 00:44:51,760
many officers are you training for the
40 searches that she said on

594
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:55,599
» who's here has to train and then like I
said software updates occur, changes are

595
00:44:53,839 --> 00:44:59,440
made in the system and new things have
to be looked up.

596
00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:03,200
» All right. So here's some data for you
for national average tracks

597
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:08,079
ex-girlfriends and her teenage daughter
600 times. This is you like you started

598
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:12,800
tracks ex-girlfriend and her new
boyfriend 200 times plus. Track

599
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:17,920
estranged wife multiple track
ex-girlfriend and her parents 100 times.

600
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:24,000
Tracked ex-girlfriends multiple track a
woman who met with working security on

601
00:45:20,240 --> 00:45:28,960
TV set then pulled her over multiple.
So that has a real concern to me with

602
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:36,480
all the women around here as how these
are getting abused. I got here some more

603
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:40,079
for you. Um, my question is the
department on the policy requires every

604
00:45:38,319 --> 00:45:43,520
flock search to have a relevant case
number and [music] legitimate law

605
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:47,040
enforcement.
Right. And that goes for the law as well

606
00:45:45,599 --> 00:45:52,400
in Wyoming.
>> It goes for the law

607
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:54,880
» as the law set in Wyoming on cameras.
Where does the law stand?

608
00:45:53,599 --> 00:45:57,599
» I'm not aware of the law.
>> Oh, they don't have any laws for flock

609
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:01,680
safety?
>> No, sir.

610
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:07,680
just policy and procedures by the town
of Waro that you must follow. Okay. So

611
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:14,480
the auto log show that requirements was
ignored on 370 out of 375 searches in

612
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:19,520
the last 2 years. What did they put
instead on the audit logs?

613
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:23,040
» So when a test or a training was
occurring, obviously there's not a case

614
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:29,440
number associated with that.
>> Okay, I would kind of fall into that. Um

615
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:31,839
under the policy that would be regarding
any searches that occur there just

616
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:39,200
searches.
>> Yeah. If you was doing a policy of your

617
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:46,400
own policy, right, of being a case
number and justification, right?

618
00:46:42,079 --> 00:46:52,400
» Okay. 370 out of 375 searches didn't
have that. So I think that you're

619
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:56,560
referring to um the logs that were
public public information requests

620
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:59,280
turned over that. So in those logs the
case numbers were actually removed.

621
00:46:58,240 --> 00:47:05,040
» Okay.
>> As well as the license plates is a

622
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:09,119
couple of those were missed. That was a
redaction error.

623
00:47:06,319 --> 00:47:15,040
» Huh. Always an errors. God, I hate
errors. Uh all right. So on November

624
00:47:12,319 --> 00:47:21,599
27th of 2025,
there was a search with the filter out

625
00:47:17,839 --> 00:47:26,480
of all Wyoming plates in Grock. So and
what you wanted to do is you filtered

626
00:47:23,599 --> 00:47:32,800
out everybody in town of Wyoming and
went out and tracked every other license

627
00:47:28,720 --> 00:47:37,280
plate with 6,000 some odd networks of 49
other states of that didn't have Wyoming

628
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:42,960
plates that were in towns for
Thanksgiving. Okay, that's included in

629
00:47:39,839 --> 00:47:46,960
Washington DC, Puerto Rico, and Mexico.
And you did that on all the family

630
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:52,480
members for Thanksgiving, singled them
out. You took a filter on there, and you

631
00:47:50,079 --> 00:47:54,400
said filtered out all Wyoming plates,
right?

632
00:47:53,119 --> 00:47:56,880
» I have no idea what you're talking
about.

633
00:47:54,720 --> 00:47:58,880
» It's It's on the records that you guys
supplied.

634
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:00,240
» Records on in front of me.
>> Okay.

635
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:04,079
» I don't know what you're trying
>> November 27th at 25.

636
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:11,720
» Question
November 16th.

637
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:11,720
» November 27th. It was Thanksgiving Day.

638
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:21,200
» Okay. Maybe it was. It was in that time.
All right. Um,

639
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:26,480
so when you come to one that says
gambling or trespass and then says test

640
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:28,559
afterwards, which one are you doing?
Were you looking for gambling or

641
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:32,240
testing?
>> It would be a test

642
00:48:29,839 --> 00:48:34,400
» of gambling. There's nothing to do with
gambling.

643
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:38,240
» So it had an error of gambling or
trespassing there. It's just information

644
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:45,200
that was put in there for the test.
>> Huh. Okay.

645
00:48:41,119 --> 00:48:50,079
Why is only five of out of 390 searches
come to one case number? You only have

646
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:52,400
one case number in 390 searches in 2
years.

647
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:55,839
» As I told you earlier, those numbers
were taken out. The case numbers as well

648
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:59,599
as license plates were supposed to be
taken out when that was released. There

649
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:03,680
was a mistake in that process.
>> Always mistakes. When the only

650
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:07,920
accountability tool that come from
promised us is filled with the word

651
00:49:05,359 --> 00:49:12,880
test, the system is not accountable. It
is operating with the basic of we don't

652
00:49:10,720 --> 00:49:17,440
know.
Uh I call for action. We not asking for

653
00:49:15,839 --> 00:49:21,839
another promise to do better. We're
asking the count council to act. Demand

654
00:49:19,599 --> 00:49:27,440
a full independent review of every test
search. Require real consequences for

655
00:49:24,720 --> 00:49:30,880
the documented policy violations.
release the remaining emails in the

656
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:35,119
complete order form without further
delay and most importantly put the

657
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:42,000
future of these counties on the ballot
where it belongs to the people of Glenn

658
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:48,000
to vote on it and off the town council.
Uh the logs are public are documented.

659
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:52,240
The only question left is whether this
council will finally hold the system

660
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:58,240
accountable to the community it is
supposed to be served. And the last one

661
00:49:55,280 --> 00:50:02,880
is Mr. know you stated that you guys
when you did these you permitted them

662
00:50:00,079 --> 00:50:09,760
outside your jurisdiction by getting a
permit from white dot is that correct

663
00:50:05,599 --> 00:50:17,200
» okay that was and you did that by white
dot right it wasn't extending the city

664
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:20,160
limits like you quoted in cowboy daily
>> cuz they said it got extended

665
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:22,880
» I don't know the answer to that
>> okay do you know the answer to that

666
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:28,079
» no I do not
>> okay cuz on cowboy daily you said that

667
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:31,200
that we extended the city limits. That's
not true.

668
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:35,359
» City limits was extended to the south up
to Deer Creek Road. Yes. I didn't say it

669
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:39,119
was extended any other direction, Jack.
>> Huh. Well, I can't even find any records

670
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:42,960
of that.
>> Wasn't done by this council. It was done

671
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:50,559
by probably
12 years or long before it was done by

672
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:54,559
back at that time when that all was in.
So why is it the sheriff's department

673
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:58,960
they hire patrol under these and not
you? Cuz it's not even your jurisdiction

674
00:50:56,640 --> 00:51:01,280
where you hold up the data.
>> Why is that?

675
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:05,040
» Jurisdiction doesn't matter with these
because these are not things that are

676
00:51:02,559 --> 00:51:07,599
being legally they're not the
infractions aren't occurring outside of

677
00:51:06,559 --> 00:51:10,480
the jurisdiction.
>> Huh? Who?

678
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:14,079
» There's no infractions being recorded.
And the only reason the jurisdiction

679
00:51:12,319 --> 00:51:16,640
jurisdiction would come into play is if
say something were to be actionable on

680
00:51:16,240 --> 00:51:20,240
this.
>> Yeah. The infractions. What do you mean

681
00:51:18,240 --> 00:51:23,599
by infractions? Infractions means
breaking the law.

682
00:51:21,119 --> 00:51:27,920
» Is there any law you can just decide to
run these fire without case numbers in?

683
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:32,960
Is that what you're saying?
>> I'm not sure.

684
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:38,720
» I'm not either. So, all right. I run 100
miles between Grock and Casper. So, any

685
00:51:36,079 --> 00:51:42,960
given day I'm at I could run two to
three times to Grock. That means I pass

686
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:47,280
these six times a day. Times that by
five, that's 30 a week. times that by

687
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:52,240
52,
you're looking for an astronomical

688
00:51:49,119 --> 00:51:56,720
amount. Say 3,000 times. I go to 15
rentals and going up in Casper.

689
00:51:54,880 --> 00:52:01,839
Especially if I have to replace a water
heater and go up to Casper. We all

690
00:51:58,720 --> 00:52:06,400
commute. My problem is is we run a power
four times a day. In 2 years, we've got

691
00:52:04,319 --> 00:52:11,040
a total of 2,000 times that we ran
across those power plays. So, we could

692
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:16,160
all be in fractions by your means. I
mean, what? I mean seriously, we have a

693
00:52:13,839 --> 00:52:20,559
digital footprint this gang us in here
and you know we are ranked number one on

694
00:52:18,720 --> 00:52:25,839
the internet for the safest town. Good
job by the way. It's safest town in

695
00:52:23,359 --> 00:52:29,040
which in Wyoming right now. Okay. So I
don't understand why we have

696
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:34,160
justification for these systems when
it's a foot in the door for what's

697
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:38,400
coming next with drones with facial
recognition. It's a foot in the door for

698
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:44,319
total surveillance. Do we want to be
like China? Come on now. That's where

699
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:49,520
it's leading to just straight up do it.
Might as well just throw it all away.

700
00:52:46,559 --> 00:52:53,359
You know, my grandfathers died in this
country to [music] save our freedoms,

701
00:52:51,359 --> 00:52:57,440
our rights, our liberties, and put
people like you guys that we can vote in

702
00:52:55,680 --> 00:53:03,599
charge and trustworthy to do the right
thing. And man, I ain't giving up my

703
00:52:59,920 --> 00:53:07,599
rights that my family died for, man. I
mean, we all have family members that

704
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:12,319
have fought for this country and our
freedoms. and it's a foot in our door to

705
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:18,000
take our freedoms away. Especially in a
town of 2400 people that lives 3 miles

706
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:22,559
off the road. Who's going to detour of a
criminal to come through our town to buy

707
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:26,800
gas in the middle of the night? They're
going to stick to 25. What? I mean,

708
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:32,000
seriously,
we're 72% below average for a crime

709
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:34,559
rate.
It doesn't make sense.

710
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:38,720
» Are you asking me a question?
>> No, I'm just talking personal

711
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:42,119
personally, but I'm done. Thank you.
That was good.

712
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:49,440
» I had uh one other question or perhaps a
couple of quick questions. So, I've been

713
00:53:47,119 --> 00:53:53,200
writing software since like the '90s and
often times when I'm doing stuff for

714
00:53:51,119 --> 00:53:56,480
like hospitals or lawyers or you know
like personal information, bank

715
00:53:54,400 --> 00:54:00,400
accounts, like we create sandbox
environments so that way we're not

716
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:05,040
exposing personal information and we can
test all kinds of different things,

717
00:54:01,839 --> 00:54:08,800
train, so on and so forth. Why wasn't
testing done through something like

718
00:54:06,720 --> 00:54:13,359
that? as opposed to real citizens
information.

719
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:17,920
» So that's a great question for
because I agree with you on that but it

720
00:54:15,839 --> 00:54:21,079
just they just haven't environment.
>> Thank you.

721
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:30,000
» Hi, my name is Tate Wise. I have four
questions down. First, are there any

722
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:33,119
portions of the contract the town has
with Flock that any of you council

723
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:36,960
members would like to see changed in any
way if we were to, you know, renew it or

724
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:41,520
if you could just go back in time and
change any stipulations?

725
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:43,040
» I'll be honest. I've never read the
contract.

726
00:54:42,319 --> 00:54:46,359
» Yeah,
>> I'll be honest.

727
00:54:46,559 --> 00:54:53,200
» Okay. And uh
well, I guess I don't know who direct

728
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:57,359
this next question. I guess it's a
follow-up question, but um do you know

729
00:54:55,520 --> 00:55:01,280
how much
flexibility flock provides when

730
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:04,960
negotiating with the municipality in
terms of the details of the contract. Is

731
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:08,240
it pretty willing to say yes, we're
willing to make this concession and that

732
00:55:06,319 --> 00:55:12,160
concession? It sounds like they might
be.

733
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:16,160
» My understanding,
but my understanding is that yes, they

734
00:55:13,599 --> 00:55:20,559
will make alterations to the contract.
>> Okay. Thank you. Um, regarding

735
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:23,599
intermunicipal flock searches, could you
tell us about how Glenrock works with

736
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:28,559
other municipalities and what sort of
data is shared? be more particular,

737
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:32,559
would you would you speak to how or if
information at all is shared using

738
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:36,960
information directly from Flock between
municipalities?

739
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:40,880
I guess what I'm asking is, you know,
when working with other municipalities,

740
00:55:39,119 --> 00:55:45,280
is it something through Flock where
you're able to like, you know, share

741
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:48,640
footage or give direct access to another
municipality for a certain period of

742
00:55:46,559 --> 00:55:51,200
time or does another municipality just
call the police department and say,

743
00:55:49,839 --> 00:55:54,240
"Hey, we're wondering if this license
plate has come through town." So if

744
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:57,440
somebody wanted information like that,
yes, they would have to call unless

745
00:55:56,000 --> 00:56:00,720
they're a subscriber of the flock
system. They're a subscriber of the

746
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:02,160
flock system and they can search from
their end.

747
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:06,079
» Okay.
>> Depended on who they were and whether we

748
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:10,160
allow would allow them for something
like that. But for something like that,

749
00:56:08,079 --> 00:56:17,359
that would require a license.
>> Okay. Um, so if we were to have a 30-day

750
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:21,680
cutoff, but another municipality were to
connect to us using what you just

751
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:26,079
mentioned and they didn't have a 30-day
cut off, would the data from our town be

752
00:56:24,240 --> 00:56:28,960
we be deleted from their database after
30 days or would they retain it?

753
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:32,319
» You mean if they searched it and they
retained that like they did a search and

754
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:36,160
got that data from our system?
>> I Yes.

755
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:39,119
» My understanding would be yes. Okay.
>> Unless they were able to download that

756
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:43,359
as evidence.
>> Okay. Thank you. And uh would you be

757
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:46,559
willing to be more particular when
running test searches? For example, by

758
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:49,920
naming the officer being trained and the
exact skill being taught so that there

759
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:51,920
aren't just things saying tests, but
more particular things.

760
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:55,040
» Yeah, we definitely look into those
changes.

761
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:58,079
» Okay. Thank you. And uh do any council
members uh have any thoughts on how to

762
00:56:56,720 --> 00:57:01,599
provide a higher degree of oversight
perhaps from outside the police

763
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:06,799
department? I mean, no shade at all. I I
trust you, right? But you know, just

764
00:57:03,119 --> 00:57:11,520
just institutionally, you know.
>> Any thoughts,

765
00:57:08,079 --> 00:57:16,079
» sir? I I appreciate hearing the thoughts
of the citizens of our community and I

766
00:57:14,240 --> 00:57:21,119
just want to hear what you have to say
and what you have to what you feel about

767
00:57:18,319 --> 00:57:24,079
this and to think upon it. Thank you.
>> Oh, thank you. All right. Anything else?

768
00:57:23,359 --> 00:57:28,000
We're good.
>> I think we're going to take all the

769
00:57:25,359 --> 00:57:31,359
information we got tonight and evaluate.
>> Okay. Thank you very much.

770
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:32,720
» We are we're going to look at this. So,
>> all right. I appreciate it, guys. Thank

771
00:57:32,559 --> 00:57:36,799
you.
>> We can't make any decisions on this

772
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:40,640
tonight. This is council.
>> No, this is

773
00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:43,760
» it would have to go into an exam session
on and during your regular council

774
00:57:42,319 --> 00:57:46,240
meeting. So, it's an official.
>> Yeah.

775
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:50,799
» I just want to make one comment. First
and foremost, I think that everybody up

776
00:57:48,319 --> 00:57:54,799
here tries to do their very level best
by way of the town.

777
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:58,880
» And to the extent that we have this many
people showing up tonight for this kind

778
00:57:56,400 --> 00:58:02,079
of system issue, I mean, this is
powerful. This is what democracy is.

779
00:58:00,799 --> 00:58:06,880
This is what government should look
like. So, it's real good that

780
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:13,520
everybody's here to voice your concerns.
And to the extent that there's

781
00:58:10,799 --> 00:58:18,880
information being misappropriated or,
you know, mismanaged,

782
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:23,920
I haven't been a part of any of the
discussions related to blockch. But now

783
00:58:20,799 --> 00:58:30,559
that I am, I can assure everybody that
I've looked at um this system and what

784
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:34,240
Chief Selson's been doing that the fact
that we're here, we're being transparent

785
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:38,079
and open and trying to educate everybody
in the community, I'm not in a position

786
00:58:36,319 --> 00:58:41,680
to know, you know, how this is
beneficial or how it's helpful or what

787
00:58:40,319 --> 00:58:47,040
have you. He'd be in the best position
to do that. But to the extent these

788
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:52,240
folks appear um trying to withhold
information or invoke more

789
00:58:50,319 --> 00:58:58,480
» are you legal counsel for them? No.
>> Yes. Invoke more government versus less

790
00:58:56,240 --> 00:59:02,640
freedom. That's certainly not their
intention. And so if it's the masses

791
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:07,359
here deciding that this is not something
the town or those folks want to do, I

792
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:11,680
mean it's real powerful for everybody up
here to hear from you. So I appreciate

793
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:15,760
everybody's attendance tonight. my I
appreciate, you know, being educated on

794
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:19,920
this topic. It's not something that
comes up in my day-to-day work and

795
00:59:18,079 --> 00:59:25,040
unless it's brought to my attention to
review these things, I wouldn't be doing

796
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:29,280
it. Otherwise, I'd be full-time every
single day legal counsel reviewing every

797
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:33,359
single document these folks do. And so
to the extent that you know that

798
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:36,960
everybody up here didn't review the
contract or that they didn't have a good

799
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:43,440
understanding of what the exact terms
are, it's certainly not from that

800
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:48,160
standpoint in my opinion. Um it's
certainly that you guys coming out and

801
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:52,400
speaking about your objections, your
questions, your issues with this is just

802
00:59:50,319 --> 00:59:57,599
helpful in terms of a governmental
standpoint for us to understand what the

803
00:59:54,559 --> 00:59:58,880
citizens want to do here. So that's just
my two cents.

804
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:01,359
» Oh, ma'am.
>> Thank you.

805
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:03,599
» You're counsel, but we don't know who
you are.

806
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:05,520
» I'm Amy.
>> Okay. Thank you.

807
01:00:04,559 --> 01:00:08,720
» Very nice. Thank you. I
>> I had one more question. Um,

808
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:13,760
» thank you so much for coming in.
>> Thank you, by the way. Uh,

809
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:17,920
» could any of you quickly clarify the
constitutionality of of this? I I mean,

810
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:21,040
I'm sure there's something here about,
you know, plain view or something like

811
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:24,480
that. I mean, could you could you talk
about it? So, I don't really want to

812
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:28,480
give you like a constitutional analysis,
but just think of it this way. Okay? So,

813
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:32,960
the last time I went through the Denver
airport and I wanted to sign up for

814
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:36,720
clear or whatever, I walked up to the
machine to sign up for that clear system

815
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:40,960
so you can go through the airport on the
faster track, right? I put my

816
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:47,200
fingerprint on there and it knew
immediately who my mom was as who my

817
01:00:44,319 --> 01:00:50,079
mom's maiden name was. And so, that was
one of the test questions. I mean to the

818
01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:53,680
extent that we are
>> You volunteered that.

819
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:57,200
» I volunteered the fingerprint. True. But
at the same time, the fact that I just

820
01:00:55,200 --> 01:01:01,599
put my finger on there and they knew who
I was by reading my fingerprint or they

821
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:06,720
can test as good as you think
considering the information that's been

822
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:09,200
gathered used through other situations.
>> It's terrifying.

823
01:01:07,359 --> 01:01:13,040
» By you putting a fingerprint on there.
Now you throw in the metric of knowing

824
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:16,960
where everybody goes, who's driving that
car by who it's licensed to, their

825
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:22,720
fingerprints, their background, their
everything that's put together through a

826
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:27,839
mosaic of all of this surveillance
>> that is the problem we are all going to

827
01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:32,559
hear that are against
>> No, and I hear that. I mean, ultimately

828
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:36,720
to the extent that you have a reasonable
expectation of privacy in the public

829
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:42,160
view anymore, it just doesn't
necessarily exist. And so now with the

830
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:49,520
implementation of the flock system, I
mean I I do a lot of 1983 litigation. So

831
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:53,520
that's civil right litigation and um you
know to identify criminals or the like

832
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:58,079
that that's one of the tools that
officers use but to the extent that

833
01:01:55,760 --> 01:02:04,799
there are invasion of privacy issues
it's been a hotly debated topic across

834
01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:09,359
the US right so I mean there is very
little expectation of privacy and policy

835
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:12,799
anymore but there's also a reason that
we choose to live in a place like

836
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:17,520
Wyoming
>> yeah we choose gun to have and live in

837
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:21,599
the big cities where these things happen
to get out of the hustle and bustle to

838
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:26,640
live in town.
>> Would you guys like if you want to talk

839
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:32,799
come to the podium
and we're we're about to we're all here

840
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:36,240
on free gratus time so this is not going
to last much longer.

841
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:41,200
» I really appreciate you guys for having
this meeting and for you guys being

842
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:46,240
here. Obviously, I know it's a touchy
subject and um it's not always fun to be

843
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:49,680
when when you know that you're just
trying to do what's right to be

844
01:02:47,839 --> 01:02:55,280
questioned. And excuse me, ma'am. Oh,
sorry, Brandy Senson.

845
01:02:52,240 --> 01:03:01,599
Um okay, so I just have a couple
questions. Um how did Flock come to you?

846
01:02:58,799 --> 01:03:06,160
Was it like marketed to you or how did
that come and how did you decide we

847
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:11,760
needed it here?
So, um, I apologize that was back in

848
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:15,280
early 2024. I I don't remember if I saw
it somewhere.

849
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:19,520
» Okay.
>> Actually, we still get a lot of phone

850
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:26,880
calls. A lot of emails,
but

851
01:03:21,599 --> 01:03:30,799
» Okay, awesome. Um, so the other question
that I have is about auditing. And I

852
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:34,319
just want to say I'm very pro law
enforcement as well. I just know that

853
01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:38,880
there's also humans in law enforcement.
And so I'm not meaning any of this

854
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:44,319
personal towards anybody in in this room
or on our you know force or anything but

855
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:48,640
um the audit as far as the audit goes
and I do appreciate the question that

856
01:03:46,079 --> 01:03:53,680
Hard has but how does can you explain
more about what you do to audit it to

857
01:03:51,039 --> 01:03:58,640
make sure that it's only being used for
correct purposes and I assume that's

858
01:03:55,599 --> 01:04:03,760
only for you can only audit your
officers not any other people who are

859
01:04:02,079 --> 01:04:09,480
maybe in Tennessee that are on the
flock. system surging in Glenrock,

860
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:09,480
right?

861
01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:15,440
» So, yes, the audit is an internal audit.
Not sure I understand what the rest of

862
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:19,280
the question as far as me auditing
another agency. I don't know.

863
01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:24,160
» Yeah. So, like you can't tell whether
the person from I'll say Tennessee,

864
01:04:21,839 --> 01:04:28,559
sorry, no offense to Tennessee. Um but
just somebody else. You there's no way

865
01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:32,400
to tell whether that is a legit case.
He's not just stalking his ex-girlfriend

866
01:04:30,559 --> 01:04:36,000
or something.
So,

867
01:04:33,839 --> 01:04:40,319
» can somebody from Tennessee get on your
flock system and run search?

868
01:04:38,160 --> 01:04:44,880
» Nobody can come through our system if
that makes sense. However, the [snorts]

869
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:50,880
idea of the national sharing network, it
is possible that other cameras could

870
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:55,760
utilize I mean search across our system.
>> Okay. Can you explain that a little more

871
01:04:52,640 --> 01:05:01,119
cuz it like it sounds like yours to me
it was contradictory.

872
01:04:59,039 --> 01:05:06,160
» So, Cter let me let me take a stab at
that. So, so say somebody in Tennessee,

873
01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:10,319
law enforcement, Jacksonboro, Tennessee,
wants to search Wying license plate

874
01:05:07,839 --> 01:05:15,119
1079. If they search that, I got to find
my truck cuz that's my truck. If they do

875
01:05:12,799 --> 01:05:18,079
that, do you get notified that they that
they found the truck in Glenrock,

876
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:21,680
Wyoming that they were searching for on
Fox? Is that your question, Rick?

877
01:05:19,839 --> 01:05:25,760
» Uh, yeah. That's the beginning of it.
Yeah. So no, it would be not I mean

878
01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:29,119
unless there was something with that
system like it was flagged

879
01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:33,359
» then it would notify
>> but that's possible for them to do that.

880
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:36,799
» Yeah.
That's the idea of the the national

881
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:40,000
versus just keeping it internal is that
if I enter somebody as a a missing

882
01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:43,839
person right and somebody's kidnapped
from here we enter them into the system

883
01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:48,160
and they would go to another area and I
be able to search those other cameras

884
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:54,079
and that to flag or for that to flag in
those other areas. Yes.

885
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:59,039
And yeah, how does that differ from, you
know, like NCIC or something like that?

886
01:05:56,640 --> 01:06:04,319
Um,
putting in that Amber Alert or,

887
01:06:02,079 --> 01:06:08,559
you know, all points built in or, you
know, how how come you can't go? It's

888
01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:11,520
just faster this way if you're using all
this technology.

889
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:14,640
» So, it's faster and that you're you're
employing the the number of cameras that

890
01:06:13,359 --> 01:06:18,960
are out there, right, to catch that
instead of just relying on one officer

891
01:06:16,640 --> 01:06:24,559
to see that. Does that make sense?
>> Sure. Okay. Um, and is there a way to

892
01:06:22,079 --> 01:06:28,880
turn that off so that nobody else could
come into our area to search in

893
01:06:26,240 --> 01:06:32,319
Glenrock? No other state, you know.
>> So, so yes, you can opt out of that, but

894
01:06:30,799 --> 01:06:37,760
then that removes us from being able to
utilize those other ones. Um, and also I

895
01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:41,280
can tell you that I am aware that the
company itself is actually putting in

896
01:06:39,359 --> 01:06:46,000
some they're altering the way that works
so that you can alter uh my

897
01:06:43,599 --> 01:06:48,160
understanding is they have to have only
certain reasons can be searched if that

898
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:52,319
makes sense.
>> Okay. So like we could switch once

899
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:55,200
that's out. It's not out yet.
>> Hypothetically

900
01:06:53,119 --> 01:06:58,559
» once that's out certainly it's as I said
going to be given a lot of

901
01:06:57,520 --> 01:07:01,680
» and it sounds like a good thing. But
anyway long story short we can actually

902
01:07:00,079 --> 01:07:05,280
select what things they could search
across the system. So cannot do those

903
01:07:04,319 --> 01:07:09,920
kind of
>> okay like the case kind of.

904
01:07:07,680 --> 01:07:15,119
» Okay. And then um what did you when you
said on that toggle the federal was off.

905
01:07:13,359 --> 01:07:18,640
Can you explain that a little bit more?
So that would mean that if a federal

906
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:21,200
agency wanted to share, so um the
network sharing like we just talked

907
01:07:19,839 --> 01:07:25,920
about that is actually something that
one agency has to agree to with another

908
01:07:23,119 --> 01:07:31,359
agency to allow the reciprocity of that
national search or famil.

909
01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:35,760
Um so what that toggle does it doesn't
allow any federal agencies to actually

910
01:07:33,359 --> 01:07:40,480
even reach out and ask to share. Oh,
>> okay. Okay. Um it's interesting that

911
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:47,200
it's okay from other states but not
federally. And I know that's a whole

912
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:52,160
other issue. Um, last question is, um,
and I guess more just a thought with the

913
01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:58,240
with the testing. I appreciate the
council's, um, pointing out, you know,

914
01:07:55,200 --> 01:08:01,920
that our data is everywhere. And again,
no offense to anybody, but when it's in

915
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:06,240
the hands of the government, that's the
reason that the United States has the

916
01:08:04,079 --> 01:08:08,960
Constitution and the amendments and
everything like that. And I know that

917
01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:13,920
you did talk about some
constitutionality, but there was a

918
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:19,120
recent Supreme Court case um federal
Supreme Court case about um Chhatri

919
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:27,759
versus some state, I don't remember, and
it was talking it said that um the

920
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:32,880
the data to get like a phone dump area
to see who were all phones. Um that that

921
01:08:30,400 --> 01:08:38,480
still requires a search warrant. And
even though right now it hasn't gone the

922
01:08:36,159 --> 01:08:41,759
right case, we all I we all know how
case law like you got to have the right

923
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:45,920
case. sending just the right facts and d
and eventually it you know but anyways

924
01:08:43,759 --> 01:08:53,600
it hasn't been ruled to Supreme Court
but why not just in your policy require

925
01:08:50,400 --> 01:08:59,279
maybe a search warrant or something to
do more looking not just you know so

926
01:08:55,920 --> 01:09:04,000
that we know as citizens and we have a
little more trust because as as a

927
01:09:01,199 --> 01:09:10,400
citizen and in Wyoming even when you ask
for a public records the keeper of the

928
01:09:07,279 --> 01:09:14,319
records in my um experience the keeper
of the records can say actually it's not

929
01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:19,199
for the public's best interest to see
that and that is really hard to tr and

930
01:09:17,440 --> 01:09:25,520
it's like trust me bro and I'm like
sorry that like no offense but like

931
01:09:21,359 --> 01:09:31,120
that's that's what England said. So um
I'm not trying to be like but it's true

932
01:09:28,319 --> 01:09:36,640
and um it's just really hard to again no
offense to anybody but um that's why

933
01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:40,440
people get so so nervous about this and
I appreciate YOUR TIME.

934
01:09:43,679 --> 01:09:51,920
UM, MY NAME IS Jackie Harder. I live in
Rolling Hills. My question is,

935
01:09:49,600 --> 01:09:57,280
how often do you share the flock
information with Casper Police

936
01:09:54,480 --> 01:10:01,920
Department? Um, when you guys are
working together for say a car going

937
01:09:59,440 --> 01:10:07,768
through Wyoming, does Casper have flock
cameras?

938
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:10,400
» Oh, but they're bigger than us, right?
[snorts]

939
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:17,679
» Okay. So you can't share the information
about Glenrock with our local police

940
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:22,800
departments like Douglas PD, Casper PD,
Gillette PD. So you can't share any of

941
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:25,920
that locally with any of our police
departments.

942
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:30,800
» None of us in the system or they call
that request.

943
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:37,679
» So the closest
city in Wyoming to us that also has

944
01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:40,880
flock cameras is Cheyenne. So, do you
guys share the information back and

945
01:10:39,199 --> 01:10:46,000
forth with Cheyenne? Do you guys work a
lot with Cheyenne since they're so close

946
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:48,640
to us?
>> So,

947
01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:52,560
I'm not sure what you mean by sharing
information back and forth. So, if

948
01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:57,679
Cheyenne has flot cameras and we're the
closest place to Cheyenne that has flot

949
01:10:55,920 --> 01:11:03,760
cameras,
how what is the point? If there's crime

950
01:11:01,679 --> 01:11:09,360
that's done here and there's crime
that's done in Casper, Douglas, all the

951
01:11:06,719 --> 01:11:14,640
places that are close around us, they're
all bigger than us, but we have

952
01:11:12,960 --> 01:11:20,800
slot cameras here, but they don't have
them going into Casper. So, how

953
01:11:17,600 --> 01:11:25,760
beneficial is an Amber Alert or anything
once they leave to the next city closest

954
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:28,480
to us?
>> How beneficial would it be for me to put

955
01:11:26,880 --> 01:11:32,159
in an Amber Alert or
>> Right. because they're not going to know

956
01:11:29,840 --> 01:11:33,760
because it's on flock. So, how can they
know that it's driving through their

957
01:11:33,280 --> 01:11:36,640
city?
>> So, yeah, certainly they would have to

958
01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:40,640
drive past one of those cameras for the
alert to go on. However, Amber alerts

959
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:43,600
are also put out through NCIC, which
means every officer is made aware of

960
01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:47,600
that.
>> Okay. So every officer,

961
01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:51,679
so
pretty much my question is why do we

962
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:56,080
have the flat kayas? Casper doesn't have
them. Douglas doesn't have them. We're

963
01:11:53,920 --> 01:12:02,320
smaller than both of them. Maybe not
Douglas, but why do we have so many and

964
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:05,040
the cities that are closest to us don't
have them?

965
01:12:03,520 --> 01:12:08,320
» So would that be a question to ask them?
I can tell you that when we went into

966
01:12:06,719 --> 01:12:12,400
this, those cities were all looking at
the system as well. whether they went

967
01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:15,360
with another system or just opted out of
it completely. I can't really speak to

968
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:19,199
that. That is on them.
>> So, they obviously didn't get them for

969
01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:21,120
some reason or another.
>> Yeah.

970
01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:26,000
» Huh. Okay.
>> So, the original intention was to try

971
01:12:23,040 --> 01:12:28,880
and partner and get those cameras put in
those other places as well. So, they

972
01:12:27,199 --> 01:12:33,040
would be more beneficial in that sense.
>> Okay. So, when is our what is the

973
01:12:30,719 --> 01:12:37,679
benefit since you said it would be more
beneficial if they had them. What is the

974
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:41,679
exact benefit for us having them here in
Glenrock?

975
01:12:39,199 --> 01:12:46,800
So um I pull back the cases that we
talked about earlier. So what it does in

976
01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:50,320
those cases was help us solve those
cases faster.

977
01:12:47,679 --> 01:12:54,000
» And those cases were from what year?
>> A number of years. I've been here since

978
01:12:51,840 --> 01:12:55,920
2010 and I specifically only use cases
that I personally.

979
01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:59,040
» Okay.
>> From 2010.

980
01:12:56,880 --> 01:13:01,520
» So but recent cases it didn't help with
right.

981
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:07,760
» Okay. I listed those as well. So okay
>> since we got the system like I told uh I

982
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:11,280
apologize asked earlier u we used the
system where the system is utilized and

983
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:16,080
was specifically helpful in those cases
I would say about

984
01:13:13,440 --> 01:13:20,719
» okay but it's not useful in the other
cities then I guess that are close that

985
01:13:18,239 --> 01:13:23,920
my whole thing is why do we have them
>> and why would you make that decision for

986
01:13:22,719 --> 01:13:28,800
us obviously
>> is there a certain size that's required

987
01:13:26,320 --> 01:13:36,000
before we put a safety feature in place
>> no not at all but the Point is, what

988
01:13:32,239 --> 01:13:41,920
makes you decide for us, a smaller town,
when the PD of Casper, which is a much

989
01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:46,239
larger town,
decides that it wasn't a good idea for

990
01:13:44,080 --> 01:13:48,800
whatever reason he came up with, why
does it make you be like, "Oh, yep. I'm

991
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:51,679
going to get them, even though no one
else around me has them, except for

992
01:13:50,080 --> 01:13:57,640
Cheyenne." And then you get to Denver
and we don't even talk about them.

993
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:57,640
So,

994
01:13:58,719 --> 01:14:04,080
» the decision to to go with them wasn't
necessarily made specific to anyone else

995
01:14:02,719 --> 01:14:08,400
going with them as well,
>> but it says that the main person for the

996
01:14:06,480 --> 01:14:13,840
flop camera, it tells you what agency
owns it, and it's Glenn Rock PD. So,

997
01:14:11,920 --> 01:14:16,960
that's you, right?
>> Yes.

998
01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:21,679
» Okay. So, my question is, what made you
decide to get them? Since you're the

999
01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:26,640
owner of it,
>> there's a potential use for the consult.

1000
01:14:24,719 --> 01:14:30,480
» Okay. So, the but there's also a
potential use just like she was talking

1001
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:34,719
about the people in Tennessee. It's
homicide, kidnapping, Amber Alert. Well,

1002
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:40,640
my ex-boyfriend decided that he was a
cop and he put Amber Alert out on me.

1003
01:14:38,320 --> 01:14:46,159
They found me here. Next thing you know,
I have a very dangerous man showing up

1004
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:49,600
at my doorstep because there was an
Amber Alert on me. So, how is that

1005
01:14:48,719 --> 01:14:52,640
helpful?
>> We speak hypothetical.

1006
01:14:51,120 --> 01:14:56,880
» Well, it's hypothetical that it's going
to help you solve crimes, too, right?

1007
01:14:55,120 --> 01:15:00,960
Cuz it's a potential. You just said it
was a potential

1008
01:14:58,719 --> 01:15:06,560
» and it has potential to do that. But it
also has potential for my ex-husband to

1009
01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:11,600
find me who abused me and show up at my
door because he's a cop and I was listed

1010
01:15:09,679 --> 01:15:16,239
as an amber alert today.
>> Yes.

1011
01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:21,239
» Okay. Okay. That's that's my question
and that's it.

1012
01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:21,239
» Thank you.

1013
01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:32,080
» Hi. Uh my name is Mariah Miller. Uh we
live here in Glenrock. Um I just wrote

1014
01:15:30,800 --> 01:15:36,960
these down throughout this meeting. It's
mostly just questions for clarity. Um so

1015
01:15:35,040 --> 01:15:44,000
for auditing, you said that you conduct
internal audits. Um, is there any third

1016
01:15:40,320 --> 01:15:49,280
party or any objective party that audits
outside of that or is it just you?

1017
01:15:47,280 --> 01:15:53,120
» So,
the short answer is

1018
01:15:50,800 --> 01:15:58,159
» okay. So, my cause for concern for that
would be because there have already been

1019
01:15:54,960 --> 01:16:02,560
so I don't want to say so many but um
multiple charges for police officers as

1020
01:16:00,159 --> 01:16:07,120
has been stated already abusing the
system. Um, one of them was a police

1021
01:16:04,880 --> 01:16:12,400
chief. Michael Steffman in Georgia was
criminally charged for using Flock to

1022
01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:16,560
stalk his ex-girlfriend. So, what
accountability is there for you because

1023
01:16:14,719 --> 01:16:23,280
you conduct the audits? Who's making
sure that you're that it's not getting

1024
01:16:19,840 --> 01:16:27,360
corrected or incorrectly used
essentially? Or are we just trusting

1025
01:16:24,800 --> 01:16:33,199
that not personal to you, but just
trusting that on your good merit that

1026
01:16:30,719 --> 01:16:37,040
it's being used appropriately? All
right. So certainly that's a good point

1027
01:16:36,159 --> 01:16:42,239
that's been brought up and it's
something that we're going to have to

1028
01:16:37,920 --> 01:16:45,040
look into. It's not all
>> and it's not personal too just because

1029
01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:49,199
it could be any police chief in the
future.

1030
01:16:46,480 --> 01:16:54,239
» Okay. Um and then the next section or
question sorry I hate public speaking.

1031
01:16:51,360 --> 01:16:58,320
Um for other on the searches that you
were showing would that fall under test

1032
01:16:56,640 --> 01:17:01,040
that was the number one or what falls
under that category?

1033
01:16:59,360 --> 01:17:05,760
» So it would be yeah it would be other
things. I apologize. I haven't I don't

1034
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:09,920
know exactly looking at it, but other
would be testing

1035
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:14,800
» testing. Okay. Cuz I just noticed that
that was number one. Um and then is

1036
01:17:12,239 --> 01:17:19,440
there any policy in town for downloading
our data? I know that the retention is

1037
01:17:16,400 --> 01:17:22,080
30 days. Um you had noted um that other
towns like if there's a request for

1038
01:17:20,880 --> 01:17:26,400
evidence or if it's being used for
evidence, they can download it. Um, is

1039
01:17:24,320 --> 01:17:29,920
that the actual policy? Like you can
only download it if it's for evidence or

1040
01:17:28,080 --> 01:17:32,640
can you guys download that and retain it
as long as

1041
01:17:30,719 --> 01:17:36,080
» So
my understanding is that if those other

1042
01:17:34,560 --> 01:17:40,320
agencies wanted to download it, they
would have to actually request that. As

1043
01:17:37,840 --> 01:17:44,159
far as us downloading it or say it was,
you know, used for an investigation or

1044
01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:47,280
under investigation, um, it would become
a part of that case.

1045
01:17:45,679 --> 01:17:51,440
» So is that the requirement though? You
cannot download it unless it is for an

1046
01:17:49,679 --> 01:17:54,159
investigation or is there any specific
policy around that? You mean internally?

1047
01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:57,360
» Yes.
>> Yeah. No, you wouldn't download any part

1048
01:17:56,560 --> 01:18:02,480
of the case.
>> Okay. Um and then I think just kind of a

1049
01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:07,440
question for everyone. Can you all kind
of understand the concern that's coming

1050
01:18:04,159 --> 01:18:11,040
from the community around this? Um just
because even for the transparency

1051
01:18:09,600 --> 01:18:16,080
portal, I don't think that was something
that was brought up as a resource for us

1052
01:18:13,360 --> 01:18:21,040
in the town hall meet or the last city
council meeting. Um, and I just think

1053
01:18:18,719 --> 01:18:25,199
it's just suspicious, not suspicious
that kind of that it came up in July

1054
01:18:23,360 --> 01:18:29,840
after the Cowboy State Daily article
came out making most of us aware of

1055
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:32,960
these cameras. Um, when from what you're
saying, most of it's automated. It

1056
01:18:31,280 --> 01:18:37,440
probably just took some configuration to
get that up and running. So why did it

1057
01:18:34,560 --> 01:18:40,080
take almost 2 years for the transparency
portal to be available?

1058
01:18:38,560 --> 01:18:44,400
» Portal wasn't an option that was offered
by the company. And so like I said, to

1059
01:18:42,560 --> 01:18:47,280
my knowledge, July. I've been working on
it since July to actually go through it

1060
01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:49,840
and stuff. Oh, that was when they gave
it as an option.

1061
01:18:48,400 --> 01:18:53,840
» That was when I was aware of that as an
option. Okay. It wasn't an option when

1062
01:18:51,520 --> 01:18:57,520
we first got the system. Um I'm not
aware of it being an option prior to to

1063
01:18:56,640 --> 01:19:00,320
July.
>> Okay.

1064
01:18:58,159 --> 01:19:02,320
» So, when it was in there, um going in
and actually trying to look through

1065
01:19:01,199 --> 01:19:05,920
that, what it looked like, setting it
up, how that works that started then I

1066
01:19:04,960 --> 01:19:11,120
can tell you that, you know, it's not
like 247

1067
01:19:08,080 --> 01:19:14,560
was just specifically trying to do that.
So, it did [clears throat] take time to

1068
01:19:13,040 --> 01:19:18,640
get it up and running. Yeah, I agree
with you that the timing was not good.

1069
01:19:16,800 --> 01:19:21,800
» Okay, that was all I had. Thank you.
>> Thank you.

1070
01:19:22,159 --> 01:19:28,960
» Is there anybody else has any questions?
Otherwise, we're going to probably call

1071
01:19:25,280 --> 01:19:32,960
this close this meeting before long.
>> Go ahead. If you had a question. Yes, my

1072
01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:38,000
question. I'm Dave Blair. I live here in
Glenrock. My question is on the recent

1073
01:19:34,960 --> 01:19:43,920
ruling battery versus the US uh August
13th rule 63 that is unconstitutional to

1074
01:19:41,600 --> 01:19:47,520
do a search without a search warrant. Is
the department of the town have any

1075
01:19:46,000 --> 01:19:51,199
plans or intentions of putting something
in place that a warrant has to be used

1076
01:19:49,600 --> 01:19:56,320
to do a search?
>> So not intentions on the warrant. Um we

1077
01:19:54,239 --> 01:20:00,320
were put in the safeguards. The problem
with the warrant is that kind of defeats

1078
01:19:57,840 --> 01:20:03,600
the purpose of the time that you save by
being able to do that. Um I certainly

1079
01:20:02,320 --> 01:20:06,320
understand And I can be certainly also
watching those those court rulings and

1080
01:20:05,199 --> 01:20:08,960
things like that. If something works a
little differently, then absolutely play

1081
01:20:08,480 --> 01:20:12,800
that.
>> In response to your response, would you

1082
01:20:10,719 --> 01:20:17,040
be willing to put if it's an amber or
something? Um, I don't mean to downplay

1083
01:20:15,600 --> 01:20:23,679
anything, but something more
timesensitive that we could agree to

1084
01:20:20,640 --> 01:20:27,920
disagree that something of that would be
substantial enough to put and wave the

1085
01:20:26,000 --> 01:20:32,159
warrant that is a child missing or
something of that nature. But if it's

1086
01:20:29,520 --> 01:20:36,000
somebody that broke into a home, then
the crime's already committed, the

1087
01:20:33,679 --> 01:20:39,920
threat's gone, where you could take the
time to get a warrant properly. And the

1088
01:20:38,000 --> 01:20:46,719
reason I asked this is um you had
mentioned, well, one gentleman mentioned

1089
01:20:42,640 --> 01:20:52,400
375 searches, 370 uses test. You've
twice now mentioned that 10 to 12 times

1090
01:20:49,199 --> 01:20:58,800
due off correction in the last year that
that system is utilized to help solve a

1091
01:20:55,920 --> 01:21:03,520
crime. So therefore, we have a
discrepancy of a minimum of five if not

1092
01:21:00,719 --> 01:21:08,560
seven times the test was used in
breaching the protocols and the asterics

1093
01:21:05,920 --> 01:21:13,440
that you pointed out to get the search
results.

1094
01:21:10,320 --> 01:21:18,960
» So I think that you're
that is not correct. What Mr. street

1095
01:21:15,360 --> 01:21:22,760
said was that there was 370 searches and
correct me if I'm not mist

1096
01:21:26,239 --> 01:21:30,159
» had case numbers or license plates
>> case numbers

1097
01:21:28,880 --> 01:21:36,800
» case numbers or license plates
>> I wasn't confirmed the case numbers or

1098
01:21:32,640 --> 01:21:41,280
» the direct credit or statement was 370
were listed as test

1099
01:21:40,080 --> 01:21:44,400
» don't think that's correct
>> okay

1100
01:21:42,400 --> 01:21:48,400
» case
that only two case number

1101
01:21:46,480 --> 01:21:53,120
» they were tied to a case number because
only one single case number was not

1102
01:21:50,159 --> 01:21:57,040
redacted
>> defiance or something

1103
01:21:55,600 --> 01:22:00,239
» and I apologize I don't have the date
that was posted but I do have a

1104
01:21:58,239 --> 01:22:04,719
screenshot of response from the town
earlier that you yourself only have

1105
01:22:02,239 --> 01:22:10,000
access to the cameras but earlier in
this meeting you stated that the tests

1106
01:22:06,480 --> 01:22:15,040
were performed to instruct and teach
oncoming officers why was a statement

1107
01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:20,719
publicly made on Facebook that you
yourself have sole

1108
01:22:18,080 --> 01:22:26,080
uh access and granted access to the
platform if in fact we're using it to

1109
01:22:23,199 --> 01:22:28,159
teach other officers who should then not
have access.

1110
01:22:26,880 --> 01:22:31,280
» I'm not familiar with what statement
you're talking about. I can tell you

1111
01:22:29,520 --> 01:22:36,400
that it was stated in there. All sworn
officers um and individuals who undergo

1112
01:22:34,480 --> 01:22:41,120
that background check to become a member
of our department have access.

1113
01:22:38,719 --> 01:22:45,159
» Okay, that's all I had. Thank you.
>> Thank you. Another

1114
01:22:45,600 --> 01:22:52,880
quick question for you. Uh, so
sorry it's a technical question, but I

1115
01:22:50,719 --> 01:22:56,639
want to make it nontechnical. Um, there
are a lot of ways to hack a computer.

1116
01:22:54,560 --> 01:22:59,920
I've like reverse engineered malware and
all kinds of different stuff. So I could

1117
01:22:58,320 --> 01:23:03,600
paint a scenario such as like I looked
at the data that was published and some

1118
01:23:02,000 --> 01:23:08,080
of those queries seem to indicate they
were coming from mobile devices. And I'm

1119
01:23:06,159 --> 01:23:13,360
not gonna really unpack the security
stuff unless you wish me to. But in

1120
01:23:10,320 --> 01:23:17,040
essence, an officer using earbuds with
Bluetooth listening to something on his

1121
01:23:14,880 --> 01:23:22,159
phone on an authenticated mobile device
into this network could have that

1122
01:23:18,880 --> 01:23:26,560
compromised. You can attack Bluetooth as
an example when it's not patched as well

1123
01:23:23,840 --> 01:23:31,120
as like other types of technology. So it
terrifies me the idea of hostile actors

1124
01:23:28,560 --> 01:23:34,719
abusing these things. And like one of
the slides said, never happened. A more

1125
01:23:33,280 --> 01:23:40,960
accurate statement would be we're not
aware of a security incident.

1126
01:23:37,840 --> 01:23:45,040
» And so um are there any kind of formal
uh do you know what a I'll just say a

1127
01:23:42,960 --> 01:23:48,719
penetration test is a test done where
you basically bring in hackers to try to

1128
01:23:46,880 --> 01:23:52,800
break in so as you can learn from how
they did it to prevent actual hostile

1129
01:23:50,400 --> 01:23:56,480
actors from coming in. Have you yet
arranged for any kind of like pen

1130
01:23:54,239 --> 01:23:59,280
testing for your systems to secure them
as best as possible?

1131
01:23:57,360 --> 01:24:02,560
» So the system is controlled through
block. So it's just unfaith from a third

1132
01:24:01,360 --> 01:24:06,560
party like you haven't because you
couldn't you just do it yourself as well

1133
01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:11,120
your officer's phones your your devices
here and everything

1134
01:24:08,800 --> 01:24:16,800
» have a security audit to ensure that you
don't have a compromised system and

1135
01:24:12,719 --> 01:24:20,800
therefore a flop compromised system
could see the security

1136
01:24:18,400 --> 01:24:24,960
» I'm sorry let me rephrase my question
have you made any effort to have a

1137
01:24:22,639 --> 01:24:27,520
formal computer security evaluation of
all your officer systems

1138
01:24:26,719 --> 01:24:31,600
» no
>> do you intend to Based on what you're

1139
01:24:30,159 --> 01:24:34,080
telling me, it sounds like you could do
anything.

1140
01:24:31,920 --> 01:24:37,239
» I would highly advise you to
>> Thank you.

1141
01:24:40,480 --> 01:24:49,440
» I've got one more quick thing. Um so
recently Flock itself has announced that

1142
01:24:46,719 --> 01:24:56,320
they will no longer keep data for longer
than 7 days unless the department has

1143
01:24:53,920 --> 01:25:02,480
extended for longer because of the
shelter verse uh the United States they

1144
01:24:59,600 --> 01:25:10,159
ruled that anything longer than 7 days
would need a warrant. So moving forward,

1145
01:25:07,280 --> 01:25:15,840
if flock in this town is continued,
would you uphold that? Because I do not

1146
01:25:13,040 --> 01:25:21,760
consent to searches.
So longer than 7 days, I do not consent

1147
01:25:18,480 --> 01:25:29,280
to you holding my stuff cuz the Supreme
Court ruled anything longer being held

1148
01:25:25,520 --> 01:25:36,239
longer than 7 days requires a search
warrant. I I highly suggest that you

1149
01:25:32,480 --> 01:25:41,840
look into it. I also highly suggest that
you look into Fox response. They

1150
01:25:39,520 --> 01:25:48,239
actually did that. They said that they
are not going to retain the data for

1151
01:25:44,560 --> 01:25:54,639
longer than 7 days unless the department
says that they want it. Um they did that

1152
01:25:51,040 --> 01:25:58,960
the day before the rule and I do feel
like that they probably knew that whole

1153
01:25:56,320 --> 01:26:02,719
thing was coming. you know, big money,
big pockets, people talk. And when

1154
01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:09,440
» was that?
>> Uh, I believe it was like two weeks ago.

1155
01:26:06,800 --> 01:26:13,360
It was fairly recent. It might have been
a week ago.

1156
01:26:10,719 --> 01:26:23,120
» Um, I've been very much keeping up on
the flock and Axon and everything. Uh,

1157
01:26:18,639 --> 01:26:31,040
so I just I would appreciate if you guys
do keep the system to go along with

1158
01:26:26,960 --> 01:26:37,840
Fox's new way and not retain the system
or retain the data for more than 7 days.

1159
01:26:34,080 --> 01:26:44,480
Although I don't think that this is the
right way. maybe a hardwired system

1160
01:26:41,040 --> 01:26:49,440
something because I didn't even know
that you guys had a discussion about

1161
01:26:46,400 --> 01:26:55,760
this two years ago and
I feel a little [screaming]

1162
01:26:51,600 --> 01:27:01,840
too and I just I I feel like the lack of
transparency is there. I don't know

1163
01:26:57,600 --> 01:27:07,360
where the city council agendas posted. I
don't and I also am not on Facebook all

1164
01:27:04,800 --> 01:27:11,600
the time, although I am more often right
now because I want to stay in I want to

1165
01:27:09,600 --> 01:27:15,840
stay in the know because I feel like I
have a voice and I should be using it

1166
01:27:13,600 --> 01:27:20,960
just like everyone else in this room.
Um, but people who are not on the

1167
01:27:18,480 --> 01:27:25,679
internet should have a place here in
Wilmock, whether it be at the town hall,

1168
01:27:23,520 --> 01:27:30,560
the grocery store, the library, or all
of the above with, hey, this is going to

1169
01:27:28,159 --> 01:27:35,360
be on the agenda.
I mean, I'm not on city council, so I

1170
01:27:33,440 --> 01:27:38,480
shouldn't have to come to all of them if
I'm not

1171
01:27:36,320 --> 01:27:44,639
» All of our all of our meetings are
posted and put out on the webs our town

1172
01:27:42,080 --> 01:27:49,199
website.
>> Yes.

1173
01:27:46,159 --> 01:27:54,000
» The agendas are are posted on Thursday
before before Monday.

1174
01:27:50,960 --> 01:27:56,239
» Why can't people speak on Monday? Why
can't they?

1175
01:27:54,560 --> 01:28:00,639
» Yeah, that's a different issue. But the
agendas are posted. The entire agenda

1176
01:27:58,400 --> 01:28:05,600
pack is posted on the Thursday before
the council meeting on Monday. The

1177
01:28:02,800 --> 01:28:11,040
minutes are posted from I mean I think I
think it goes back 2 years and then I

1178
01:28:08,239 --> 01:28:15,360
have the meeting minute books upstairs.
What might I request for people who

1179
01:28:13,600 --> 01:28:20,320
don't use the internet, cuz I know
there's a lot of older people than me,

1180
01:28:17,920 --> 01:28:24,800
um, posting it physically like the
senior center, library, grocery store,

1181
01:28:23,040 --> 01:28:30,560
here in the town hall, even in the
police department section because that

1182
01:28:28,000 --> 01:28:34,159
would be more transparent to this
community.

1183
01:28:32,639 --> 01:28:39,520
And
>> I will save the rest of my questions for

1184
01:28:36,400 --> 01:28:43,360
the 14th. So, thank you. It's almost
7:00, so let's hurry up. We're going to

1185
01:28:42,239 --> 01:28:46,639
close this meeting at 7:00.
>> I don't have a question. I just have a

1186
01:28:44,880 --> 01:28:51,040
real quick comment I want to make. Uh,
it has to do with the CC cameras and

1187
01:28:48,800 --> 01:28:54,159
that he brought up. Um, so people don't
leave leave here and feel like they were

1188
01:28:52,560 --> 01:28:57,840
lied to. Again, I think we need to be
transparent that cameras are not the

1189
01:28:55,760 --> 01:28:58,960
only cameras that we have in Glenrock.
Very true.

1190
01:28:58,400 --> 01:29:02,880
» Okay.
>> Absolutely.

1191
01:29:01,360 --> 01:29:06,800
Do you have you have law enforcement
that have onboard cameras that take a

1192
01:29:04,960 --> 01:29:11,360
picture of your c of your license plate
and your face and do facial recognition

1193
01:29:09,440 --> 01:29:17,239
and run you through NCIC whether you
know it or not.

1194
01:29:12,960 --> 01:29:17,239
» And we also have cameras in South

1195
01:29:18,480 --> 01:29:26,080
» and that keeps from the damage and the
uh people defacing our property and

1196
01:29:24,800 --> 01:29:28,639
tearing it up.
>> I mean there there's always going to be

1197
01:29:27,280 --> 01:29:33,440
an argument for
>> Yes. Hi, I'm Cynthia

1198
01:29:31,840 --> 01:29:38,800
cameras and anybody walks up to your
door that you're recording

1199
01:29:35,920 --> 01:29:42,400
me before. Hey, Cynthia Wise. I'm a
resident of Glen Rock and I have a I

1200
01:29:41,120 --> 01:29:45,520
have a real
>> Shut up, please.

1201
01:29:43,840 --> 01:29:50,159
» Excuse me.
>> Well, I will be rude. She's down here.

1202
01:29:47,600 --> 01:29:52,480
You want to talk? Walk up to the deal.
Jack,

1203
01:29:50,639 --> 01:29:56,000
» I have been waiting. I have been
waiting. Don't go to the deal. She's

1204
01:29:55,199 --> 01:30:01,280
talking.
>> Please.

1205
01:29:57,040 --> 01:30:06,080
» Okay. I have a problem with the name the
name flock. I think that we're we're um

1206
01:30:04,560 --> 01:30:11,679
the flock. I mean, they're treating us
like livestock, treating us like sheep,

1207
01:30:08,639 --> 01:30:17,600
and they're not even hiding it.
You know, it I'm called back to uh a

1208
01:30:15,280 --> 01:30:23,040
quote from
Thomas Moore in in England and he said,

1209
01:30:21,360 --> 01:30:26,639
so it's his writings. They said, you
know, when they started fencing the

1210
01:30:24,800 --> 01:30:32,320
property lines that the peasants, you
know, they they took away their their um

1211
01:30:29,440 --> 01:30:35,679
gardens and uh they had no livelihood,
but then he said you're taking away

1212
01:30:34,000 --> 01:30:40,320
their livelihood and treating them like
criminals and then you lock them up

1213
01:30:37,199 --> 01:30:45,280
because they steal. I mean, I think that
the back to the point that Tim McCain

1214
01:30:42,480 --> 01:30:53,440
made, these are rights that we have
because we are born human beings and we

1215
01:30:50,000 --> 01:30:58,560
need to stand up for our rights.
>> You know, we have God-given rights.

1216
01:30:56,400 --> 01:31:04,159
I understand from the perspective of
policing that your training and

1217
01:31:02,159 --> 01:31:09,760
everything makes that you know you take
it seriously and it is wonderful that

1218
01:31:07,040 --> 01:31:17,760
you take it seriously but I have heard
that the the the contract that Flock has

1219
01:31:14,239 --> 01:31:24,320
it says that they own the the um data in
perpetuity what is that the word forever

1220
01:31:21,280 --> 01:31:31,280
they're forever it's in private hands
we can't trust who's going to be in

1221
01:31:26,480 --> 01:31:35,360
next. Our constitution outlives
the what do they call it? The the

1222
01:31:33,600 --> 01:31:42,080
presidency. It outlives lives the
administration. And we can't afford to

1223
01:31:38,400 --> 01:31:48,800
erode those rights. They outlives
us and it keeps our country safe. And if

1224
01:31:45,199 --> 01:31:53,440
we cannot stand up for that in our town
and make a push back against AI and

1225
01:31:51,600 --> 01:31:58,960
everything else just just because the
government has it, we have it, then then

1226
01:31:56,639 --> 01:32:05,360
I I think that we're inviting a slippery
slope for erosion of more of our rights

1227
01:32:01,040 --> 01:32:10,800
as human beings. Okay. So please will
somebody please read and understand what

1228
01:32:08,080 --> 01:32:13,840
the contract with flock says.
>> Thank you.

1229
01:32:11,280 --> 01:32:18,480
» Thank you.
We're going to call this meeting closed

1230
01:32:15,920 --> 01:32:25,000
at this time and you can come on board.
We've been here for an hour and a half.

1231
01:32:20,639 --> 01:32:25,000
We're we're given our time. Ju

1232
01:32:25,840 --> 01:32:33,920
I told you we're closing at 7. You want
to speak? Come on the 14th.

1233
01:32:31,679 --> 01:32:38,480
Please come on.
I don't trust any of them. That's the

1234
01:32:36,000 --> 01:32:43,520
bad news. The good news is I just paid
taxes here.

1235
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But that being said, you violated the
public trust and I think the best way to

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01:32:45,840 --> 01:32:57,840
do that is to have the police chief an
elected position not under the wind of

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01:32:53,600 --> 01:33:02,800
let's see mayor code enforcement
DCI involvement or whatever you do with

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01:33:00,719 --> 01:33:06,639
this new.
Okay. So, what would it take to have the

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01:33:04,480 --> 01:33:09,600
police elected?
>> It's not an elected position. It's

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01:33:08,239 --> 01:33:13,440
appointed by the mayor at the beginning
of the C of their 4-year term. And you

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01:33:11,520 --> 01:33:20,639
can't change that. I think that's across
the United States. That's that's statute

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01:33:16,880 --> 01:33:20,639
in in the state.