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Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.

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Welcome to the city of Gloucester zoning

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board of appeals meeting of September

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24th, 2026

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here at Kyru's Auditorium.

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This meeting is being held with a hybrid

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Zoom link also for people to participate

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from elsewhere. For the record, the

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meeting ID under Zoom is 810

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111972493.

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I recognize in attendance members myself

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Joe Paresi, Lauren Norton,

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um on Zoom, Michael Nyman, and also to

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my right, Ron Wilson. And I declare we

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have a quorum.

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First order of business will be the

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approval of minutes of August 27th,

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2026.

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I pro propose that um they be approved

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as shared.

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>> Second.

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>> Motion made and seconded on the minutes.

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Roll call vote.

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>> Mr. Nyman.

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>> Yes.

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>> Mr. Wilson.

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>> Yes.

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>> Miss Norton.

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>> Yes. Mr. Pey.

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>> Yes. Minutes are approved. Our consent

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agenda tonight is the uh vote to give

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the chair permission to sign the

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following decisions. 10,00 Washington

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Street and 15 Traverse Street.

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>> I would move that uh the chair be

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authorized to approve the 1000

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Washington Street and 15 Traverse Street

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decisions.

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>> Second.

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>> Made and seconded. Roll call.

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>> Mr. Nyman.

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>> Yes.

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>> Mr. Wilson?

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>> Yes.

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>> Miss Norton? Yes. Mr. Prey?

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>> Yes.

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>> Okay. One of our applications that was

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continued tonight um was for Jamie and

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Benjamin Seolo seeking a special permit

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at 21 Walnut Street. At that previous

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hearing we had one of the neighbors had

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asked if we could continue it to October

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8th. However, at the time, Attorney Fero

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representing the people uh didn't have

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their permission. Since then, the the

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applicant has agreed to let it be

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continued to October 8th, and Attorney

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Fero has agreed to sign an extension

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beyond the 65 days for the hearing. With

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that in mind, I'll entertain a motion to

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move 21 Walnut Street to October 8. Is

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it?

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I will move uh that the application of

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Jamie and Benjamin Sevel for the 21

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Walnut Street application be

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continued to the October 8th meeting.

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>> Second.

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>> Motion made and seconded. Roll call.

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>> Mr. Nyman.

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>> Yes.

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>> Mr. Wilson?

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>> Yes.

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>> Miss Norton?

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>> Yes.

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>> Mr. Paris?

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>> Yes.

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>> Okay. Our other

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continued application was the

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application of Ab Barothomu M. Driscoll

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and Heather EM Driscoll seeking a

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special permit or variance to construct

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a deck at 8 Angle Street.

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[clears throat]

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Good evening.

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Bread in as a panelist. Now,

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for the record, my name is Joel Favaza.

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I'm an attorney at Casside Leo Solutions

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with an address 123 Main Street here in

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Gloucester here on behalf of Heather and

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Bart Driscoll, the trustee owners.

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>> Hey Joel, just make sure I keep that mic

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on your chin there. Thanks very much.

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>> You know me. I'm just such a quiet guy.

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Sorry. Uh, let me pull up my screen

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here. So, as you remember, we were here

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um I believe a month ago or actually

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Baker a month ago looking to get a

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special permit to construct a first

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floor deck and a second floor deck at 8

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angle street and there was some concern

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from one of the director Butters about

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privacy etc. And at the time I talked to

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my clients and they agreed to go back

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sharpen their pencils and try and

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further address these concerns. We

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submitted I think about 3 weeks ago

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updated plans. And the big change here

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is

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what was kind of a triangular deck. We

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used to have the face of the deck kind

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of angled out this direction has been

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chopped. The deck protrudes at its

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furthest 3 feet 10 and a half inches.

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When you deduct the joist and the the

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joist and the railing, it's about three

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and a half feet from the door to the

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back of the railing. And we've

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maintained the privacy screening and

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actually enhanced the privacy screening,

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which again you can see um in these

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renderings to make sure that the

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neighbor's yard um is as protected as

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possible. What I want to point out is if

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we look now, so this is the first floor.

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Oops, that's a little too far. This is

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the first floor door that would lead out

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to the deck. And as you can see, the

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ground here is maybe about 2 ft below

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the doorway. And because this ground is

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elevated already, the neighbor um the

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neighbor's fence here is maybe about 3

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ft high above ground. And so this yard

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area um you know if they're not able to

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do a deck would likely become a patio at

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which point you have a chest height

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fence and people right up to that fence.

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Um again if we're concerned about the

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proximity to this yard you're better off

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to keep them pulled back with a railing

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that'll be running across this face.

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This is the sorry sensitive this view.

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the zoom here. This is the view that you

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get from the first floor. As you can

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see, it's a beautiful shot out

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of the harbor. What I'll also note is

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that again the the the chief opponent,

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this is their yard here. You have a much

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larger deck just as close if not closer

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than we're proposing on the other side

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of this yard. So again, the idea that

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right now this neighbor has some sort of

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oasis where they can't be seen from the

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neighborhood around them is not the

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situation. And this is a deck where you

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could have, you know, people sit out and

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lounge, you can entertain, etc. The deck

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we're proposing is again, stand out

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there with your cup of coffee. You

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probably couldn't even get a seat out

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there unless it was a small wire seat.

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Now, if you go upstairs, the second

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floor, these are the windows that would

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become the door. What I want to point

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out specifically is that again you have

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kind of the straight shot view which

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exists now would still be the view you

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would get from that second deck but

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right now you can look out these windows

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and the neighbors have a deck a nice

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little screenhouse on there that's

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obviously where they like to spend time

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and if you're standing in this house

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currently you can just you know if you

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wanted to watch them right again that's

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not my client's goal and This view here

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is the view that gets blocked by that

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privacy screening. So if these become uh

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doors and the deck exists, the privacy

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screen comes across this and there'll be

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no longer this ability to look out from

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this kitchen at this deck or from that

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deck at the neighbor's house look into

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this kitchen. So it enhances privacy in

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both directions.

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Um otherwise, again, as we discussed at

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length,

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the standard here is whether or not

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these proposed decks would be

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substantially detrimental to the

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neighborhood as compared to what

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presently exists. And I've just shown

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you what presently exists as far as view

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into the neighbor's yard and proximity

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of uh the yard areas of these two

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neighbors. and also remind you that we

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have uh direct butter across the street

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and two direct to butters um six angle

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street and one western avenue in

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support. So again I would submit as I

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did last time that this revised design

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certainly would not be substantially

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more detrimental to the neighborhood

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that presently exists. I hope the board

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recognized the hard work that went into

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trying to um respond to the concerns of

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the neighbor nonetheless and that if

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we're tr truly concerned about enhancing

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privacy out here, these decks will

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increase privacy between these two

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properties versus what is presently open

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today. Thank you.

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» Any questions by the board?

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No control, take your screen down,

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please. Yep.

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>> Thank you.

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>> We'll um

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left the public hearing open. So, let's

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um

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let's take testimony.

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Anyone wishing to speak in favor of the

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application? Anyone in favor, please

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come forward. If you're on Zoom, you hit

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your raise hand button.

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No one. Anyone wishing to speak in

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opposition to the application.

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» Good evening. U Mary and Jose Duran, 17

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Middle Street.

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Okay, we um we realize that the new

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proposal's been submitted and it does

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alleviate some of the privacy concerns,

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but it does absolutely nothing for the

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safety concerns, the fire hazard that

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exists already with these properties in

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closest proximity at that point and even

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more so when you add on an additional

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extension in the form of a deck.

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At the last meeting, the board expressed

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concern about allowing just one neighbor

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to dictate whether or not you approve a

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special permit.

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And attorney for the petitioners

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um told you that the standard you must

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apply, of course, is whether or not the

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proposal would be substantially more

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detrimental to the neighborhood than

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not. And he also told you that the way

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you can figure that out is you simply

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ask the neighbors. So we took him up on

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his advice and we did ask the neighbors

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and we came up with no less than 18

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other neighbors who share our concern

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and who are also opposed to this and

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some vehemently so I might add. And you

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have that in front of you as I submitted

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it um by the deadline.

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And um I I so I ask you if one neighbor

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does not a neighborhood make, do 19

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neighbors a neighborhood make? Because

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if not, I'd like to know how many do.

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Attorney for the petitioners also at

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that last meeting told this board that

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you know with proposals such as this a

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petitioner does not need to show any

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necessity. They don't need to show

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popularity.

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They don't even need to show any wisdom.

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And that's true. A petitioner is always

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free to make any proposal they want

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simply based on want, a simple desire.

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And I agree with that. Okay. But

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although they are not required to

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exercise any wisdom, I believe it's this

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board's role to do just that. to

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interject some wisdom, some good

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judgment, and common sense in evaluating

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00:12:10,399 --> 00:12:12,720
all the proposals that come before you.

277
00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:14,880
Some may be wise, some may be foolish,

278
00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,279
some may be beneficial or neutral to a

279
00:12:17,279 --> 00:12:19,440
neighborhood, and some may be even

280
00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,079
dangerous, as we believe this one is.

281
00:12:22,079 --> 00:12:25,600
Our main concern is a fire safety risk.

282
00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:27,440
I mean, you don't need to be a fire

283
00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,800
safety expert to walk down that pathway

284
00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:32,800
or on our side and you look up at that

285
00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,040
precise location and think this is a

286
00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:37,120
good idea. I mean, it is almost

287
00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:38,959
ridiculous. Although, we have heard from

288
00:12:38,959 --> 00:12:41,040
a fire safety expert at the last

289
00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,760
meeting, a 32-year veteran of the

290
00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:46,079
Glouester Fire Department who told you

291
00:12:46,079 --> 00:12:48,880
that this is not a good idea. He has

292
00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:52,639
seen many deck fires in his time caused

293
00:12:52,639 --> 00:12:55,360
by and not even decks on grills, but

294
00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:58,880
careless disposal of smoking materials

295
00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,760
and any other cause. Once a fire gets

296
00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,560
started, these properties are so close

297
00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:06,480
together. And a deck is just more

298
00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,959
kindling and a privacy screen, although

299
00:13:08,959 --> 00:13:12,399
we appreciate that. Um, it just adds

300
00:13:12,399 --> 00:13:14,399
more kindling to a fire as that

301
00:13:14,399 --> 00:13:17,519
firefighter told us at the last meeting.

302
00:13:17,519 --> 00:13:20,639
So I I I don't know what more to say. I

303
00:13:20,639 --> 00:13:22,399
mean it's incredulous to us that they

304
00:13:22,399 --> 00:13:25,279
are not as equally concerned about their

305
00:13:25,279 --> 00:13:28,160
own safety as we are about ours.

306
00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:30,160
I mean their house is as close to ours

307
00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:32,399
as ours is to theirs. They should be

308
00:13:32,399 --> 00:13:34,240
just as concerned. We heard from their

309
00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:36,079
attorney expressing their concern about

310
00:13:36,079 --> 00:13:38,399
privacy that they are just as concerned

311
00:13:38,399 --> 00:13:40,320
about their privacy as we are about

312
00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:42,480
ours. And I believe they are. Everybody

313
00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:44,320
wants privacy, right? Nobody wants to be

314
00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:45,839
looked at while they're enjoying their

315
00:13:45,839 --> 00:13:48,639
property. inside or out. But I haven't

316
00:13:48,639 --> 00:13:51,360
heard one word about fire safety. Where

317
00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,399
is their concern about fire safety? And

318
00:13:54,399 --> 00:13:56,320
if they're not concerned, I believe it's

319
00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:58,880
this board's role to protect the whole

320
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:00,880
neighborhood, including them, from their

321
00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:03,760
own poor decisions. I mean, we all want

322
00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,000
what we want, right? But sometimes we

323
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:07,920
don't always see it from all

324
00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,560
perspectives and, you know, and how it

325
00:14:10,560 --> 00:14:13,199
affects everybody, including them. I

326
00:14:13,199 --> 00:14:14,880
believe this is this board's role to

327
00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:17,760
interject wisdom in that regard and

328
00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,800
protect them even from their own folly.

329
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:22,880
Um, you know, we're not trying to be

330
00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:24,639
difficult neighbors here. We have no

331
00:14:24,639 --> 00:14:26,800
problem with these neighbors. But this

332
00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,519
is just getting too ridiculous. This is

333
00:14:29,519 --> 00:14:31,760
too dangerous.

334
00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,399
I I just we can't even, you know,

335
00:14:34,399 --> 00:14:38,399
believe that that nobody sees this.

336
00:14:38,399 --> 00:14:40,720
Common sense needs to needs to be, you

337
00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,120
know, used here.

338
00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,519
And another thing that we do is we have

339
00:14:45,519 --> 00:14:48,079
a a perennial bed that sits right below

340
00:14:48,079 --> 00:14:50,399
this precise location on our side of the

341
00:14:50,399 --> 00:14:52,639
property. And we mulch that every spring

342
00:14:52,639 --> 00:14:55,839
and every summer. And I don't think I

343
00:14:55,839 --> 00:14:57,839
need to tell anybody here how flammable

344
00:14:57,839 --> 00:14:59,920
mulch can be. And all it would take

345
00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:02,320
would be one flick of one cigarette to

346
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,720
land in that mulch and you could get a

347
00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:08,000
fire smoldering very quickly and ignite.

348
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:09,839
And I know their attorney will get back

349
00:15:09,839 --> 00:15:11,440
up here now and tell you, "Well, they

350
00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:13,680
don't smoke." But after all, this is a

351
00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:15,680
three family home here. You're going to

352
00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:18,079
have owners, you might have tenants, you

353
00:15:18,079 --> 00:15:19,839
might any occupants and future

354
00:15:19,839 --> 00:15:22,560
occupants. Once a deck is placed there,

355
00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:24,480
you cannot control what people are going

356
00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:26,800
to do. Even if you uh impose

357
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,560
stipulations on the use, we just uh just

358
00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:32,079
don't think this is a good idea

359
00:15:32,079 --> 00:15:35,440
obviously. And um you know I'll leave

360
00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:37,600
you with one final thought that a

361
00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:39,680
firefighter told me one time when I

362
00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,880
asked him why you know people do things

363
00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,040
that seem to be so common so why they

364
00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:47,519
don't take common sense precautions with

365
00:15:47,519 --> 00:15:50,079
all kinds of fires inside and outside.

366
00:15:50,079 --> 00:15:53,199
And he said to me the foolish decisions

367
00:15:53,199 --> 00:15:57,120
of people are the reason I have a job.

368
00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,920
So I will leave you with that and I I I

369
00:15:59,920 --> 00:16:02,160
just ask you I beg you let's not give

370
00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:04,160
our Glossia firefighters yet one more

371
00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,040
foolishbased fire deck fire in

372
00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:09,839
particular to have to extinguish

373
00:16:09,839 --> 00:16:12,079
risking their own lives and the lives of

374
00:16:12,079 --> 00:16:19,350
everyone concerned

375
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:22,480
» to reaffirm what Mary has just uh said.

376
00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:27,360
Our main concern is fire safety and

377
00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,800
the recent events in Rockport show that

378
00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:34,079
a catastrophic fire destroyed

379
00:16:34,079 --> 00:16:36,079
a historic

380
00:16:36,079 --> 00:16:39,360
um institution in Rockport and as a

381
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:41,600
neighbor of Gloucester the house the

382
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,399
Rockport house of pizza. One of the

383
00:16:44,399 --> 00:16:47,040
reasons that

384
00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:49,680
the outcome wasn't more catastrophic was

385
00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,079
that there was separation from that

386
00:16:52,079 --> 00:16:54,606
building to other buildings and so the

387
00:16:54,606 --> 00:16:56,639
[clears throat] fire did not spread and

388
00:16:56,639 --> 00:16:58,959
thankfully for our first responders it

389
00:16:58,959 --> 00:17:02,150
was contained.

390
00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:04,640
Another point that I'd like to make is

391
00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,120
as Mary pointed out, we have neighbors

392
00:17:07,120 --> 00:17:09,679
that have signed on to our petition or

393
00:17:09,679 --> 00:17:15,520
our letter opposing this um

394
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:17,039
request.

395
00:17:17,039 --> 00:17:18,959
Every time I talked to them, one of

396
00:17:18,959 --> 00:17:21,439
their first reaction was,

397
00:17:21,439 --> 00:17:23,760
"Isn't that a fire hazard being so

398
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:27,039
close?" Not just one person or two, the

399
00:17:27,039 --> 00:17:29,760
majority of these people addressed,

400
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:33,520
isn't this a fire hazard? And they also

401
00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,720
pointed out to the privacy issue.

402
00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,120
Granted,

403
00:17:39,120 --> 00:17:42,400
now I'm not an expert on the

404
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:44,080
construction or whatever it is. So I

405
00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:47,039
looked up the setbacks and requirements

406
00:17:47,039 --> 00:17:50,960
and all of that. And one of the the main

407
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:54,880
thing that comes up on setback is that

408
00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,919
the evolvement of it was fire

409
00:17:57,919 --> 00:17:59,440
prevention.

410
00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:01,840
Not fire prevention within the a

411
00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,559
structure itself, but from spreading to

412
00:18:04,559 --> 00:18:07,440
another fire to to another building

413
00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,320
adjacent to it, which as as I just

414
00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:12,320
pointed out helped contain the fire in

415
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:16,000
Rockport. Now,

416
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,480
the building on 8 Angle Street is

417
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:20,720
already non-conforming. Now, due to

418
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:22,720
grandfathering and all that, it's legal

419
00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,520
to be there. What they want is not only

420
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:29,029
to

421
00:18:29,039 --> 00:18:31,840
go out of that non-conforming

422
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:37,990
um distance. They want to increase that

423
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,480
beyond the non-conforming.

424
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,559
That that to me doesn't make any kind of

425
00:18:42,559 --> 00:18:44,000
sense.

426
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,679
Now, the zoning codes, the boards, they

427
00:18:47,679 --> 00:18:49,840
have put

428
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:53,360
certain requirements trying to

429
00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:58,640
um increase safety in new constructions

430
00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,760
more than multifamily houses. Fire

431
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,000
sprinklers are required

432
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,640
in most in all houses. Now the detectors

433
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,000
are required all designed to prevent

434
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,280
detect and also mitigate a fire if it

435
00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:18,960
does start. However, nothing is provided

436
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,440
on for the outside other than the

437
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,160
setbacks. That was the wisdom of the

438
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:26,880
original design of of the zoning

439
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:28,960
founders

440
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,760
to provide distance between properties

441
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,799
so that the a fire originating in one

442
00:19:34,799 --> 00:19:39,430
doesn't go to another.

443
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:44,240
uh because of the location of the of the houses where we are so close an

444
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,120
older city. This is why the they were

445
00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:49,679
grandfathered. Again, the distance is

446
00:19:49,679 --> 00:19:54,240
already outside the conforming of the

447
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,600
setback requirements and they want to

448
00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,720
increase that.

449
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,120
I request that that request their

450
00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:06,480
request be denied.

451
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:08,160
Thank you.

452
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,320
And one more thing I'd like to add, the

453
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:13,360
business of the fact that we have a deck

454
00:20:13,360 --> 00:20:15,360
and the neighbors on the other side have

455
00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:17,679
a deck. That's irrelevant. We found that

456
00:20:17,679 --> 00:20:20,559
deck there. Their deck was there. I

457
00:20:20,559 --> 00:20:21,760
mean, what are we supposed to do about

458
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:23,440
that? That we bought the property like

459
00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,160
that and the other property has the

460
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,400
deck. It's set further back in the yard

461
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,559
like their other deck is. So, at least

462
00:20:30,559 --> 00:20:33,120
it gives you some distance. But again,

463
00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:34,799
we have no control over that. We found

464
00:20:34,799 --> 00:20:37,360
our properties like this. But now again,

465
00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:38,559
they're looking to be more

466
00:20:38,559 --> 00:20:41,440
non-conforming at a location that is

467
00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,320
just so incredibly close. I'm sure

468
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:46,240
you've all seen it in person. I think

469
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:47,679
you're all required to go there in

470
00:20:47,679 --> 00:20:50,000
person. I I don't know how anybody can

471
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,080
walk down that pathway, look up at that

472
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,799
precise location, and say, "This is an

473
00:20:54,799 --> 00:20:58,880
okay idea." I I mean, it it boggles the

474
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:00,400
mind.

475
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:01,760
Thank you.

476
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:03,280
>> Thank you.

477
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:04,880
>> Anyone else wishing to speak in

478
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:18,310
opposition?

479
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,240
seeing none.

480
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:26,149
Rebuttal.

481
00:21:26,159 --> 00:21:29,054
Thank you.

482
00:21:29,054 --> 00:21:32,070
[clears throat]

483
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,240
So,

484
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,440
as the the board may recall,

485
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,320
the discussion last time was focused

486
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,200
almost entirely on privacy. I appreciate

487
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,559
that one um friend of theirs came up who

488
00:21:46,559 --> 00:21:48,640
has experience in fire protection and he

489
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,440
had um you know stated some opinions as

490
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,039
to the prior design, his concern about

491
00:21:53,039 --> 00:21:55,840
the prior design. But one of the reasons

492
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:57,520
that we focus so heavily on privacy is

493
00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:58,720
because that's what we were talking

494
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,600
about for 98% of the hearing last time.

495
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,880
I find it quite rich. But now the whole

496
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:06,480
time their their their issue hasn't, you

497
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,720
know, privacy, okay, it's about the fire

498
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:10,880
prevention. That's really where, you

499
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:14,240
know, their concern is. And so what I

500
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,000
just want to, you know, point out is

501
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:20,159
that in that opposition we just heard,

502
00:22:20,159 --> 00:22:22,960
we didn't hear that, you know, we're

503
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,720
very concerned about fire safety. And

504
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,200
so, of course, we're going to take down

505
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,200
our fabric screenhouse and our fabric

506
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:32,960
chairs and our fabric swing and we're

507
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:34,320
going to get that gate off the deck to

508
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,159
make sure that pathway is not obstructed

509
00:22:36,159 --> 00:22:38,480
because we're so concerned about how

510
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,039
likely a deck is to catch fire. We heard

511
00:22:41,039 --> 00:22:42,960
none of that. We heard them say they

512
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:44,640
throw down what they believe to be

513
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,000
flammable mulch. I don't actually know

514
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,400
how flammable mulch is, but according to

515
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,240
them, they think mulch is very flammable

516
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,640
and they put it down every year right on

517
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:54,640
the property line. And because they do

518
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,240
that, we shouldn't build a deck. They

519
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:57,760
weren't saying, "We're so concerned

520
00:22:57,760 --> 00:22:59,919
about fire, we're not we don't use mulch

521
00:22:59,919 --> 00:23:01,440
anymore because we're so They said, "No,

522
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,039
we're going to keep doing the things we

523
00:23:03,039 --> 00:23:05,360
do, but the neighbor can't do any of the

524
00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:07,360
things they would like to do because

525
00:23:07,360 --> 00:23:10,000
we're the only allowable fire hazard in

526
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:11,919
the the neighborhood." You didn't hear

527
00:23:11,919 --> 00:23:14,559
them say, "Oh, you know, we're going to

528
00:23:14,559 --> 00:23:19,200
um remove I'm going to switch over and

529
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,520
switch over. Hold on." It didn't say

530
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,000
we're going to go back out to our

531
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:28,000
driveway and we are going to take down

532
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,880
um you know this wooden fence that we

533
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,679
have erected that goes from basically

534
00:23:33,679 --> 00:23:35,280
another one of our wooden decks right to

535
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:36,880
the property line because again we're so

536
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,120
concerned about how things constructed

537
00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:40,720
near the property line are flammable and

538
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:42,320
will cause the whole neighborhood to go

539
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,039
up in flames. I don't see any of that. I

540
00:23:45,039 --> 00:23:47,520
also want to point out that as the board

541
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:49,840
knows, you sit in a quasi judicial

542
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,080
posture here. You have to make a legal

543
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,320
finding. There is nothing in the record

544
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,440
except conjecture from non-experts as to

545
00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:59,679
the purported fire dangers or fire

546
00:23:59,679 --> 00:24:02,159
unsafety of this design. However, in the

547
00:24:02,159 --> 00:24:04,080
record, you do have stamped

548
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,400
architectural plans from a licensed

549
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,480
architect who can only design the stamp

550
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,039
plans that conform with all applicable

551
00:24:11,039 --> 00:24:13,760
codes. So there's no violation of

552
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:15,600
applicable building and or fire safety

553
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,559
codes as designed with this deck. And I

554
00:24:18,559 --> 00:24:20,559
will also point out again anecdotally

555
00:24:20,559 --> 00:24:23,440
that my client Bart was a firefighter

556
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,320
for eight years, an EMT for three. So he

557
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,039
is also very much aware of the dangers

558
00:24:29,039 --> 00:24:31,520
of, you know, house fires in congested

559
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,600
neighborhoods and would never, as his

560
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,520
neighbors were concerned about, put he,

561
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,840
his family, or his neighborhood in, you

562
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:39,840
know, harm's way. He's very much aware

563
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:41,600
of the risks and would not have proposed

564
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:43,600
a design that would have been something

565
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,200
that he as a firefighter, a former

566
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,360
firefighter would have thought was

567
00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:50,640
inherently dangerous. So again, the

568
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,320
standard is is this substantially more

569
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,240
detrimental to the neighborhood than

570
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,559
what presently exists? I don't see

571
00:24:58,559 --> 00:25:00,080
anything in the record before you that

572
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:01,600
allows such a finding. And if there is

573
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,200
not such a finding, you find

574
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,360
alternatively that there is no increase

575
00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:06,960
to this or substantial judgment to the

576
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:08,559
neighborhood, then a special permit is

577
00:25:08,559 --> 00:25:10,960
warranted. These are 39 square foot

578
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,039
balconies at this point. I would hope

579
00:25:13,039 --> 00:25:14,880
that you would have the the wisdom to

580
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,960
see through that these are so minute

581
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:20,240
um that the neighborhood couldn't

582
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,640
possibly be impacted to such a degree

583
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:24,400
and that a special permit is warranted.

584
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,000
Thank you.

585
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:27,760
>> Question.

586
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:29,919
the um

587
00:25:29,919 --> 00:25:32,320
two years ago we approved this property

588
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,559
conversion to three family. Has that not

589
00:25:34,559 --> 00:25:35,440
taken place?

590
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:36,799
>> That has not taken place. It is still a

591
00:25:36,799 --> 00:25:37,360
two family

592
00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:38,799
>> because that would have triggered the

593
00:25:38,799 --> 00:25:41,120
sprinkling of the building and probably

594
00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:43,679
would have alleviated some of the fire

595
00:25:43,679 --> 00:25:46,320
concern. I mean, obviously, we don't

596
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,200
allow accessory dwellings too close to

597
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,400
main houses, and why could that possibly

598
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,760
be? Except for the fire hazard of an

599
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:57,440
accessory building being too close to

600
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,679
the house and causing a more expansive

601
00:26:01,679 --> 00:26:05,520
fire in the event of one. So the other

602
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:10,559
thing I you pointed out um the other the

603
00:26:10,559 --> 00:26:12,640
third home

604
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,279
deck is beyond the residential homes.

605
00:26:15,279 --> 00:26:17,200
It's not next to a neighbor's

606
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:18,960
residential.

607
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,760
So it's kind of a different situation

608
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,720
um when it comes to the fire hazard. So

609
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,080
I just think those were some points that

610
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,440
we shouldn't overlook. So, are they not

611
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,600
intending to utilize the three family

612
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,240
that we granted which allowed you to

613
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:40,000
apply to correct all the imperfections

614
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,320
of the lot, the setbacks and everything

615
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,880
which were all granted thinking it was

616
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,440
going to be convert to a three family

617
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,840
which would have triggered the fire, the

618
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,400
sprinkling. Is that abandoned now? It's

619
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,480
almost up to expiration at this point.

620
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,559
It has not been formally abandoned, but

621
00:26:56,559 --> 00:26:59,120
right now they they have not um chosen

622
00:26:59,120 --> 00:27:00,799
to exercise that relief and it may

623
00:27:00,799 --> 00:27:03,200
expire before they're able to. Bart's

624
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:04,799
about to move his mother into one of the

625
00:27:04,799 --> 00:27:07,520
units.

626
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,120
>> I don't speak.

627
00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:10,799
>> You need to tell us who you are.

628
00:27:10,799 --> 00:27:11,279
>> Heather,

629
00:27:11,279 --> 00:27:12,080
>> where you live?

630
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,640
>> Heather Driscoll, 8 Angle Street. Um

631
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,320
last year when

632
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:17,840
>> Heather, you need to put your chin right

633
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:19,760
on that mic. I can't hear you. Thank

634
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:20,159
you.

635
00:27:20,159 --> 00:27:23,440
>> Thank you. Uh when my father-in-law

636
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,760
passed away, we decided that it would be

637
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,240
better for my mother-in-law to move in.

638
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,520
So um we've spent the last year

639
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,080
reconfiguring the first floor to build

640
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:38,559
out um a nice apartment for her. So two

641
00:27:38,559 --> 00:27:41,760
family. It's not going to change. My

642
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:46,149
mother-in-law moves in tomorrow.

643
00:27:46,159 --> 00:27:48,480
» So it's a two family. Yes, there remains

644
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:54,470
a two families.

645
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,720
» Any other discussion by the board?

646
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,480
>> Uh, yes. Um,

647
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,720
I want to be careful that I'm and be

648
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,559
respectful,

649
00:28:04,559 --> 00:28:08,399
so I'll choose my words carefully. Um,

650
00:28:08,399 --> 00:28:11,120
it's not an issue for me. I I feel like

651
00:28:11,120 --> 00:28:16,080
um that these two relatively small decks

652
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,799
I feel like they've answered

653
00:28:18,799 --> 00:28:20,880
uh with screening. So I would concur

654
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,120
with the attorney that most of the

655
00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:25,600
conversation last time uh the fire

656
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:26,949
concerns were brought up but

657
00:28:26,949 --> 00:28:28,720
[clears throat] they were they were not

658
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,600
primary in my estimation. Um and they've

659
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:33,279
become primary and there's very little

660
00:28:33,279 --> 00:28:35,360
discussion about privacy because I think

661
00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:37,360
these two designs have taken care of it

662
00:28:37,360 --> 00:28:38,880
pretty well. the lower and the upper

663
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,159
deck. Um, so for me, these two

664
00:28:42,159 --> 00:28:45,919
relatively small

665
00:28:45,919 --> 00:28:47,279
decks, we have to call them decks

666
00:28:47,279 --> 00:28:48,559
because you're walking out away from the

667
00:28:48,559 --> 00:28:51,679
house. Um,

668
00:28:51,679 --> 00:28:53,840
uh, they are not substantially more

669
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:55,360
detrimental to the neighborhood in my

670
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,840
estimation. I feel very strongly about

671
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:03,190
that's my comments.

672
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:04,720
» What are the materials that the decks

673
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:09,110
are going to be made out of?

674
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:15,830
wood

675
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:17,440
which again is building fire code

676
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:26,470
compliant.

677
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:28,559
» So the the decking will be ASAC and the

678
00:29:28,559 --> 00:29:34,070
frame will be wood. Sorry mistake.

679
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:38,880
Can we make this uh contingent on u

680
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:40,559
following through on the special permit

681
00:29:40,559 --> 00:29:42,559
that was given earlier?

682
00:29:42,559 --> 00:29:46,389
>> What does that mean?

683
00:29:46,399 --> 00:29:48,559
» Meaning if they they can't build this if

684
00:29:48,559 --> 00:29:52,080
they don't do the three family.

685
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:56,159
>> Oh, come on. What are you talking about?

686
00:29:56,159 --> 00:29:57,760
>> Help help me with the relevance. I'm not

687
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,320
understanding.

688
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,080
I just think that they're, you know,

689
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,399
they're going through a needle that

690
00:30:04,399 --> 00:30:06,320
they, you know, they created an avenue

691
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:10,159
to do this via a special permit

692
00:30:10,159 --> 00:30:12,640
um of alter expand instead of dealing

693
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,520
with talking about the slightly more

694
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:20,880
stringent criteria of uh variance only

695
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:25,919
because they got a new code of um

696
00:30:25,919 --> 00:30:27,600
>> no, they have an existing

697
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,679
>> they cleaned up all of the variants is

698
00:30:29,679 --> 00:30:32,880
or the nonconformity by saying they were

699
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:34,399
going to convert it to three family and

700
00:30:34,399 --> 00:30:36,559
now they're not going to do that.

701
00:30:36,559 --> 00:30:41,120
>> I'm sorry if they and they building

702
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:42,559
>> I'm I'm just totally missing what you

703
00:30:42,559 --> 00:30:44,640
talked about. They have a two family.

704
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,440
They had a two family. We granted them

705
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:48,880
permission to do a three family which

706
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:50,240
they're not going to do. So they still

707
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:51,840
have a two family which they've always

708
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,880
had. So I I'm not I'm just missing it.

709
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,320
What the conversion did is it allowed we

710
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,880
allowed all the nonconformities to be

711
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:02,399
cleaned up because they have to be

712
00:31:02,399 --> 00:31:05,200
before you can be a three family. So now

713
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,360
you even though they're not exercising

714
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,000
the three family, they got the benefit

715
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:11,840
of cleaning up. In other words, this

716
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,600
would be a variance right now instead of

717
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,520
an alter and expand.

718
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,440
>> Mr. Chair, it it would not be. I'm sorry

719
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,320
to interrupt, but so the the relief the

720
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:23,679
dimensional relief granted as part of

721
00:31:23,679 --> 00:31:25,840
the three family conversion is not

722
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,480
effective until that takes place. So we

723
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,559
are still at status quo. This was a

724
00:31:30,559 --> 00:31:33,039
pre-existing non-conforming structure

725
00:31:33,039 --> 00:31:34,960
before that relief was granted. That

726
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,039
relief has not been exercised. So it

727
00:31:37,039 --> 00:31:38,880
remains a pre-existing non this was

728
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,200
always a special permit. The relief that

729
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,159
we got previously does not impact the

730
00:31:44,159 --> 00:31:46,799
relief required today. If we had never

731
00:31:46,799 --> 00:31:48,640
come here seeking permission to go to a

732
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:50,000
three and this is the first time you

733
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,159
were seeing us here, it would still be a

734
00:31:52,159 --> 00:31:54,159
special permit to alter and expand a

735
00:31:54,159 --> 00:31:56,080
pre-existing non-conforming structure.

736
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,000
That previous permitting did nothing to

737
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:02,000
change to make this easier, so to speak.

738
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,640
Well, my point still remains the fire

739
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,640
safety. um the argument of substantially

740
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,880
more detrimental to the neighborhood

741
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:12,640
seems where the houses are so close

742
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,000
together and we've witnessed Middle

743
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:17,760
Street and chunks of it burned to the

744
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:19,919
ground and Main Street burned to the

745
00:32:19,919 --> 00:32:23,760
ground and other things like that to

746
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,559
encourage something this close to the

747
00:32:26,559 --> 00:32:29,679
boundary I think is wrong. It reminds me

748
00:32:29,679 --> 00:32:33,360
of so many cases we've heard where there

749
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,159
were you you got houses so close

750
00:32:36,159 --> 00:32:39,600
together to allow a potential fire

751
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,120
hazard

752
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,120
which would be detrimental to the

753
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:44,720
neighborhood

754
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,279
if the a fire started there. And that's

755
00:32:47,279 --> 00:32:48,640
the that's the thing I've been hanging

756
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,960
on to is this

757
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:55,039
the fire safety. I don't Yeah. I mean,

758
00:32:55,039 --> 00:32:56,480
they can look out the window just as

759
00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:00,080
good or the door. They could put um

760
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,360
Juliet balconies rails and enjoy the

761
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,080
view. They don't need somewhere where

762
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:07,840
someone goes out onto a deck and

763
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:11,039
potentially creates a because we all

764
00:33:11,039 --> 00:33:14,080
know what happens on decks. People go

765
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,799
out to barbecue. I know they've shrunk

766
00:33:16,799 --> 00:33:22,799
it down, but people go out to smoke and

767
00:33:22,799 --> 00:33:25,200
I I still see it as a hazard. And that

768
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,279
fire hazard

769
00:33:27,279 --> 00:33:29,360
I can see being substantially more

770
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,279
detrimental to a neighborhood that

771
00:33:31,279 --> 00:33:34,399
congested. Just my thought.

772
00:33:34,399 --> 00:33:36,080
>> Um Mr. Chair, I just want to remind the

773
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:37,440
board we offered a condition last time

774
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,919
that we would prohibit the use of um

775
00:33:39,919 --> 00:33:41,679
grills on the last deck and we continue

776
00:33:41,679 --> 00:33:42,240
that for

777
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:43,279
>> not hearing you, Joel.

778
00:33:43,279 --> 00:33:44,559
>> Sorry. I was reminded the board that

779
00:33:44,559 --> 00:33:46,000
last time we offered a condition that we

780
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,240
would not allow any um grills or their

781
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,080
cooking stuff out there. Again, the

782
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:51,039
first floor is going to be to hold

783
00:33:51,039 --> 00:33:52,399
plants so they can pull some tomatoes

784
00:33:52,399 --> 00:33:54,000
from their garden while they're cooking.

785
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:55,919
Um that sort of thing. Um or second

786
00:33:55,919 --> 00:33:57,600
floor rather. So we're willing to take a

787
00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:59,760
condition no smoking, no grills

788
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:01,279
condition. Like that's that's fine.

789
00:34:01,279 --> 00:34:02,960
>> And when do we enforce that? After the

790
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:04,240
fire.

791
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:05,919
>> Nobody's going to be looking at it.

792
00:34:05,919 --> 00:34:07,519
>> I'm sure again these neighbors these

793
00:34:07,519 --> 00:34:09,679
neighbors are close. If we put those

794
00:34:09,679 --> 00:34:11,040
conditions on there and they spend the

795
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:12,320
money building these decks and then they

796
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,560
go out there and decide in middle age to

797
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:16,720
pick up smoking, the neighbors can drop

798
00:34:16,720 --> 00:34:18,240
a dime and Rob will come out and be

799
00:34:18,240 --> 00:34:20,399
like, "Hey guys, you know, you're losing

800
00:34:20,399 --> 00:34:21,599
your occupancy on these because you're

801
00:34:21,599 --> 00:34:24,159
violating an express condition." Again,

802
00:34:24,159 --> 00:34:25,760
the benefit of this close neighborhood

803
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:27,119
is that people would see if if all of a

804
00:34:27,119 --> 00:34:28,960
sudden there's a grill out there,

805
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:30,320
multiple neighbors are going to see that

806
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,240
grill out there and call Rob, he can

807
00:34:32,240 --> 00:34:34,159
come out. Enforcement order can issue. I

808
00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:36,879
mean, that's, you know, this is it's not

809
00:34:36,879 --> 00:34:38,000
the woods of West Glouester where you

810
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:39,359
permit something and never see it again.

811
00:34:39,359 --> 00:34:42,000
This is clearly under the eye of of

812
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,909
neighbors who are concerned.

813
00:34:45,919 --> 00:34:48,079
» Are we ready to vote?

814
00:34:48,079 --> 00:34:50,240
>> You want you want to say?

815
00:34:50,240 --> 00:34:51,679
>> Nope.

816
00:34:51,679 --> 00:34:53,679
>> Okay.

817
00:34:53,679 --> 00:34:55,919
Close public testimony

818
00:34:55,919 --> 00:34:58,560
and we'll entertain a motion on the

819
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:03,910
application.

820
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,560
of Arab Bartholomew

821
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:08,720
M. Driscoll and Heather EM Driscoll

822
00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:11,280
seeking a special permit and/or variant

823
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,079
well special permit to alter and expand

824
00:35:14,079 --> 00:35:19,670
to create decks at 8 Angle Street.

825
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:23,829
I move for approval.

826
00:35:23,839 --> 00:35:25,280
» Second.

827
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,599
>> Have a motion made and seconded. Roll

828
00:35:27,599 --> 00:35:30,720
call vote.

829
00:35:30,720 --> 00:35:32,240
Mr. Nyman,

830
00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:34,320
>> yes.

831
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:35,440
>> Mr. Wilson,

832
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:36,720
>> no.

833
00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:38,320
>> Miss Norton,

834
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:39,119
>> no.

835
00:35:39,119 --> 00:35:40,160
>> Mr. Prey,

836
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:44,310
>> no.

837
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,760
Our decision denied.

838
00:35:47,760 --> 00:36:03,030
Thank you.

839
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:06,720
We'll figure it our next.

840
00:36:06,720 --> 00:36:11,190
Where is my gone?

841
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:12,800
No, I had one. Here it is. I had it

842
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:17,119
marked up. Easier for me.

843
00:36:17,119 --> 00:36:19,680
Hey, our first regular application of

844
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,160
the evening is the application of MS9

845
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,680
Rosey LLC seeking a variance extension

846
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:31,829
for 18 to 18B Rogers Street.

847
00:36:31,839 --> 00:36:33,680
Uh hello for the record, my name is Sean

848
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:35,599
Lynch. I'm an attorney at Seaside Glue

849
00:36:35,599 --> 00:36:38,640
Solutions, address of 123 Main Street

850
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:42,960
here on behalf of MS9 Rosey.

851
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:47,040
um here requesting an extension um on

852
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,880
variances uh for 18 Roger Street. Uh for

853
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,599
a quick summary, in 2023, this board

854
00:36:53,599 --> 00:36:57,119
granted a bit of relief for um the

855
00:36:57,119 --> 00:37:00,800
construction of a multi-use building on

856
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,280
18 Street. Uh the first floor would be

857
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,520
for the sugars m sugar Sugar Mags

858
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,359
restaurant where the top two floors

859
00:37:07,359 --> 00:37:09,520
would be for a residential floor or for

860
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,320
sorry for two residential floors.

861
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,200
um as part of that relief included as

862
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,880
sle of dimensional variances. Um

863
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,440
normally those have an expiration date

864
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,640
of one year um under loster zoting

865
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:28,800
ordinance. Um but uh the there's a state

866
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,839
law called the mass leads act in 2024

867
00:37:31,839 --> 00:37:34,000
that any variances that were in effect

868
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,079
from 2020 through 2024 were

869
00:37:36,079 --> 00:37:38,560
automatically extended for two years. So

870
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,320
the uh deadline or the the lapse of this

871
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,160
of these variances that were granted in

872
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:50,000
October 2023 um are for November 2026.

873
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:51,760
Um

874
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:55,839
so we are here to request for uh the

875
00:37:55,839 --> 00:37:59,200
extension of those variances for six

876
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:03,839
months to uh May I believe 19th 2026

877
00:38:03,839 --> 00:38:07,680
sorry May 15 2027 my bad.

878
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,720
Um the standard the board uses for this

879
00:38:10,720 --> 00:38:14,320
is the board is has discretion um to

880
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,720
grant a six-month extension to the

881
00:38:16,720 --> 00:38:18,960
variance if they so desire. Uh that can

882
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,119
be determined by determining if there's

883
00:38:21,119 --> 00:38:24,720
good cause for the extension. Um

884
00:38:24,720 --> 00:38:27,040
this project as evidenced by the fact

885
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:28,640
that the lot is so empty has had a lot

886
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:30,320
of construction issues or a lot of

887
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,400
construction complications that have

888
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,560
arisen um over the years that have

889
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,400
delayed the ability to pull hermits. Um

890
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,200
there have been conflicting information

891
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,680
from the state that uh the state gave to

892
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:47,440
our cl my client um when it comes to uh

893
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:49,359
the applicable standards for building on

894
00:38:49,359 --> 00:38:51,440
the property. Uh there's also a change

895
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,040
to the building code that happened that

896
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,280
um initially the building was going to

897
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,839
be on stilts. Um but because of the uh

898
00:38:57,839 --> 00:38:59,599
change to the building code that

899
00:38:59,599 --> 00:39:02,720
required um buildings to be 2 feet above

900
00:39:02,720 --> 00:39:05,520
the base elevation in a flood vein, uh

901
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:06,880
that was something that had to be

902
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,880
changed in the project. So um the

903
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,960
uh and also just coordinating to all the parties for the project. Um

904
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,359
we've had to talk to lawyers uh speaking

905
00:39:17,359 --> 00:39:21,280
people from the state um surveyors and

906
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:22,640
trying to coordinate all these people

907
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:24,880
together has been really tough. Um but

908
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:26,320
that being said we are close to the

909
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,000
finish line. It's just not going to be

910
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,240
finished in time for uh the uh the

911
00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:33,839
November um uh date of lapse. Uh so

912
00:39:33,839 --> 00:39:36,079
that's why we're requesting a six-month

913
00:39:36,079 --> 00:39:39,760
extension for the variances here. Um, I

914
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:43,440
think also the state has been the state

915
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,400
knows that uh it's pretty challenging

916
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:48,800
oftentimes to be able to get projects

917
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:50,480
like this going with a short timeline.

918
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,240
That's why you saw stuff like that mass

919
00:39:52,240 --> 00:39:55,119
leads act with the extension of or the

920
00:39:55,119 --> 00:39:58,079
uh the two-year freeze for for uh

921
00:39:58,079 --> 00:40:00,560
variance timelines and also why in that

922
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:02,480
recent variance law that you guys keep

923
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:07,040
hearing about um they uh changed it so

924
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:10,480
variances now don't last until two years

925
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,079
and on top of that they can be extended

926
00:40:12,079 --> 00:40:14,800
for up to two more years. Um, that being

927
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:15,839
said though, again, we're only

928
00:40:15,839 --> 00:40:17,280
requesting six months variance for this

929
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:21,760
case. Um, and I think uh we have shown

930
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:23,200
good cause for it, but I'd love to hear

931
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,200
from the board or the public if they

932
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,839
have anything to say. And thank you.

933
00:40:27,839 --> 00:40:30,480
>> Thank you. This is a traditional

934
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,520
extension that we grant routinely on the

935
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,320
first request. And so I would think we'd

936
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,720
be ready on a motion to grant a

937
00:40:38,720 --> 00:40:41,119
six-month extension.

938
00:40:41,119 --> 00:40:42,720
I can make a motion

939
00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:46,800
>> on the application of MS9 Rose realy LLC

940
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:48,880
seeking an extension of the variances

941
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:54,240
for 18 and 18B Rogers Street um to

942
00:40:54,240 --> 00:40:55,839
extend

943
00:40:55,839 --> 00:41:00,000
until May 15, 2027

944
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,720
because um

945
00:41:02,720 --> 00:41:04,240
the interests of the neighborhood and

946
00:41:04,240 --> 00:41:07,599
the city are not impaired and um good

947
00:41:07,599 --> 00:41:11,670
cause has been shown.

948
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:13,839
Second motion made and seconded for six

949
00:41:13,839 --> 00:41:15,520
month extension for the variance. Roll

950
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,000
call vote.

951
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:19,280
>> Mr. Nyman.

952
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:20,720
>> Yes.

953
00:41:20,720 --> 00:41:21,760
>> Mr. Wilson.

954
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:22,400
>> Yes.

955
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:23,520
>> Miss Norton.

956
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:25,200
>> Yes. Mr. Priesty.

957
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:26,720
>> Yes.

958
00:41:26,720 --> 00:41:28,640
>> Thank you.

959
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:30,400
>> Okay. Our next application is the

960
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,599
application of Suz Suzanne Rose seeking

961
00:41:33,599 --> 00:41:35,520
a special permit variance to construct a

962
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:42,470
porch at 22 Calder Street.

963
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:44,400
Good evening. My name is Kelly Max

964
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,680
Elves. I'm a Glouester resident for

965
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:49,839
29 years.

966
00:41:49,839 --> 00:41:51,359
>> What's your address?

967
00:41:51,359 --> 00:41:52,960
>> 36 G Avenue.

968
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:54,319
>> Thank you.

969
00:41:54,319 --> 00:41:56,480
>> We're seeking relief on a non-conforming

970
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:58,560
property. The existing property was

971
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,920
built in the 80s by the high school

972
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:07,359
students and right now sits at 15.3 ft

973
00:42:07,359 --> 00:42:10,240
from the side setbacks.

974
00:42:10,240 --> 00:42:12,480
To build the uh porch, the front porch

975
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,440
will increase that. The new porch will

976
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:17,520
be 14.8.

977
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,560
So we increase by 5 in. They already

978
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:22,800
nonconfirming.

979
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,760
So we're seeking relief on that. They

980
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,800
have a very spacious uh yard, but the

981
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:30,800
house was just set on the wrong spot of

982
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:32,480
the yard. So, it's too close to the

983
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:40,950
right.

984
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:42,800
Okay.

985
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:49,030
So, we're looking for

986
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:52,800
we look are we altering expanding or it

987
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:53,200
didn't

988
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,040
>> Yeah, it's already

989
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:57,680
>> non-compliant to the left sideyard, I

990
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:01,829
think.

991
00:43:01,839 --> 00:43:03,119
» Yeah, the house is already

992
00:43:03,119 --> 00:43:09,109
nonconfirming. It sits at 15.3.

993
00:43:09,119 --> 00:43:19,430
Yeah. Okay.

994
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:20,480
It's five inches.

995
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:21,760
>> Yeah. It's just an extension of the

996
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:23,440
existing non-conformity, right? As the

997
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:24,880
deck comes across the front and meets

998
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:26,079
the left setback.

999
00:43:26,079 --> 00:43:26,800
>> Yeah.

1000
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:31,510
>> Right. The last five feet or whatever.

1001
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:35,280
» And the lack coverage is the same.

1002
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,319
>> Oh, it's 9.3%. Yeah. We could determine

1003
00:43:38,319 --> 00:43:40,800
there's no increase

1004
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,040
in nonconformity.

1005
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:44,079
I mean, there's five in.

1006
00:43:44,079 --> 00:43:45,680
>> Well, he's got Yeah, I don't have a

1007
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:47,280
problem. How How we decide, but he's got

1008
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:49,440
a 14t deck that's going to extend 5T

1009
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:51,760
into the left-hand setback that doesn't

1010
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:55,430
currently do that.

1011
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:57,440
Right. Isn't that what's going on, sir?

1012
00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,359
>> Yes.

1013
00:43:59,359 --> 00:44:00,720
>> So, he doesn't need anything along the

1014
00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:02,240
front. It's just when it approaches that

1015
00:44:02,240 --> 00:44:04,480
left setback where the house is already

1016
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:06,480
in it. He's going to actually go seven

1017
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:08,079
inches closer.

1018
00:44:08,079 --> 00:44:09,920
>> So it's not just the seven inches, but

1019
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:10,800
it's

1020
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:12,560
>> expand.

1021
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:16,319
>> It's not beyond the house.

1022
00:44:16,319 --> 00:44:18,240
>> I I don't know why you need seven to

1023
00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:19,280
grant the

1024
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:20,319
>> Yeah,

1025
00:44:20,319 --> 00:44:22,560
>> expand. But let's uh let's take public

1026
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:24,800
testimony first. Allow the public to

1027
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:26,560
speak. Anyone wishing to speak in favor

1028
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:28,960
of the application, please come forward.

1029
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:30,480
or if you're on Zoom or hit your raise

1030
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,200
hand button.

1031
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:35,520
Anyone in favor?

1032
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:36,800
Seeing none, is there anyone in

1033
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:38,319
opposition to the project? Anyone

1034
00:44:38,319 --> 00:44:44,309
wishing to speak in opposition?

1035
00:44:44,319 --> 00:44:46,960
Seeing no one close public testimony. No

1036
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:48,560
rebuttal.

1037
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:50,319
Motion.

1038
00:44:50,319 --> 00:44:52,319
I can make a motion.

1039
00:44:52,319 --> 00:44:54,640
>> Please.

1040
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,680
application of uh Suzanne Rose seeking a

1041
00:44:57,680 --> 00:44:59,680
special permit to alter and expand an

1042
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:01,920
existing nonconformity uh to build their

1043
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:04,560
porch along the front at 22 Calder

1044
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:06,960
Street. Uh I would move it is not

1045
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:08,560
substantially more detrimental.

1046
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:10,480
Borderline doesn't need a special

1047
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:12,480
permit, but I would move approval of the

1048
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,200
special permit.

1049
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:17,839
>> Second.

1050
00:45:17,839 --> 00:45:20,480
We had a motion made and seconded to

1051
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:22,560
grant a special permit to alter and

1052
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:24,720
expand non-conforming structure. Roll

1053
00:45:24,720 --> 00:45:26,240
call vote.

1054
00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:27,680
>> Mr. Nyman.

1055
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:28,880
>> Yes.

1056
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:30,000
>> Mr. Wilson.

1057
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:30,800
>> Yes.

1058
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:31,760
>> Miss Norton.

1059
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:33,440
>> Yes. Mr. Prey.

1060
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:35,680
>> Yes. Heard our decisions favorable.

1061
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:38,720
We'll issue a decision. Get it out.

1062
00:45:38,720 --> 00:45:40,800
>> Thank you.

1063
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:43,760
Yeah.

1064
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:54,790
Lauren.

1065
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:56,319
Okay, our next hearing is the

1066
00:45:56,319 --> 00:45:59,839
application of Kayla and Peter Canavo

1067
00:45:59,839 --> 00:46:02,400
seeking a special permit of variance to

1068
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:04,560
construct an addition at 103 Essex

1069
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:17,829
Avenue.

1070
00:46:17,839 --> 00:46:20,160
I guess my question is for Rob at this

1071
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:22,720
point before the applicant comes up. Uh

1072
00:46:22,720 --> 00:46:25,359
are are they asking for a special permit

1073
00:46:25,359 --> 00:46:26,800
or are they asking for a variance?

1074
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,040
Because there's no

1075
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,720
dimensions. So, uh, I can't decide for

1076
00:46:32,720 --> 00:46:34,880
myself what they're asking for.

1077
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:36,480
>> They're asking for a special permit,

1078
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:41,829
Michael.

1079
00:46:41,839 --> 00:46:43,680
» There no dimensions and there's no site

1080
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:47,190
plan.

1081
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:49,119
» This is a

1082
00:46:49,119 --> 00:46:50,960
non-conforming

1083
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,640
lot building on a non-conforming lot.

1084
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:56,880
So, it'll be an alter and expand. And it

1085
00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:01,040
is it it passed the 10%

1086
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:04,079
test by the uh

1087
00:47:04,079 --> 00:47:08,079
um flood plane manager of the city. So

1088
00:47:08,079 --> 00:47:11,680
it's not over the 10% threshold.

1089
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,079
So without a site plan, just want to

1090
00:47:14,079 --> 00:47:16,160
challenge us a tiny bit. without a site

1091
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:20,480
plan, without dimensions, how can we

1092
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:21,920
I don't think I have an issue with

1093
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,000
what's being asked for here, but how do

1094
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,720
we how do we know that we do they do

1095
00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:31,910
what we they say?

1096
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:33,920
» I agree.

1097
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:38,160
Well, the the addition

1098
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:41,520
is attached to the existing home

1099
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:44,160
and it's those have those have

1100
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:46,319
dimensions. I think what's we seem to be

1101
00:47:46,319 --> 00:47:51,359
missing is the uh the plot plan

1102
00:47:51,359 --> 00:47:53,760
with those measurements.

1103
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:57,200
But even even still I guess it would be

1104
00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:01,599
still a alter and expand non-conforming.

1105
00:48:01,599 --> 00:48:03,599
I think that's what the office kind of

1106
00:48:03,599 --> 00:48:06,870
determined.

1107
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:08,160
» All right, I'll get off my horse and

1108
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:10,240
I'll just follow here.

1109
00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:13,520
>> We could ask for uh

1110
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:15,440
it not to issue until we had the plot

1111
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:18,400
plan. I guess if I mean we should have

1112
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,599
it in the question. It may be in

1113
00:48:21,599 --> 00:48:23,680
somewhere in the file, but this was not

1114
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:26,160
in our packet.

1115
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:30,079
On page A4 of the drawings, the proposed

1116
00:48:30,079 --> 00:48:33,599
foundation plan, you can see how the

1117
00:48:33,599 --> 00:48:35,200
building is going to overlay the

1118
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:38,880
existing sun room. It it will, but

1119
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:42,480
there's no measurement of that right

1120
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:44,880
now. So, it is going to extend closer to

1121
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,359
the left sideline

1122
00:48:47,359 --> 00:48:51,040
um by a few feet, but we don't know

1123
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:52,720
>> that would that would fall under the

1124
00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:58,230
altar and expand.

1125
00:48:58,240 --> 00:48:59,680
Yeah, it would fall under the alter and

1126
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,079
expand. And again, I'm sorry.

1127
00:49:02,079 --> 00:49:03,839
>> I know what you're saying.

1128
00:49:03,839 --> 00:49:04,880
>> What's that?

1129
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:06,319
>> I know what you're saying. We should

1130
00:49:06,319 --> 00:49:08,880
have a lot plan.

1131
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:12,319
>> Well, if if if the if the if the small

1132
00:49:12,319 --> 00:49:14,319
addition on the house, the little bay

1133
00:49:14,319 --> 00:49:16,480
addition on the house,

1134
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:18,720
uh, hasn't violated the setback, then he

1135
00:49:18,720 --> 00:49:20,960
needs a variance, right? So I'm I guess

1136
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:22,880
we're I guess my understanding is from

1137
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:24,880
Rob that does violate setback. So only

1138
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:26,079
needs special permit, but there's just

1139
00:49:26,079 --> 00:49:27,680
no dimensions. That's all to support

1140
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:29,040
that. That's that's my only

1141
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:34,319
>> that's um we could continue and um and

1142
00:49:34,319 --> 00:49:36,240
give them a time to submit the

1143
00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:39,760
appropriate site plan.

1144
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:42,240
Hold on. I think he's they may have had

1145
00:49:42,240 --> 00:49:43,599
trouble getting on. We haven't had the

1146
00:49:43,599 --> 00:49:49,510
applicant on yet.

1147
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:54,309
Hi. Sorry.

1148
00:49:54,319 --> 00:49:55,920
» Peter, what are your con what are your

1149
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:57,599
sort of time frame on your construction

1150
00:49:57,599 --> 00:49:59,920
plans? Are they like right off or or

1151
00:49:59,920 --> 00:50:02,319
not? Not not right off.

1152
00:50:02,319 --> 00:50:03,760
>> What was that, Michael? I'm sorry.

1153
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:05,760
>> Hold on. Hold on before we giggle.

1154
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:07,200
>> Yep.

1155
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:08,880
>> The applicant needs to give his name and

1156
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:10,319
address for the record.

1157
00:50:10,319 --> 00:50:11,760
>> Yep.

1158
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:14,480
>> Hi, my name is uh Peter Canavo. I live

1159
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:18,470
at 103 Essex.

1160
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:20,559
What we've found, Peter, as we began to

1161
00:50:20,559 --> 00:50:24,720
dig through, we didn't get a site plan.

1162
00:50:24,720 --> 00:50:27,680
>> So, we don't need measurements.

1163
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:32,240
>> There should there was elevation plans.

1164
00:50:32,240 --> 00:50:34,319
>> Yeah. But no, no plot plan. So, we know

1165
00:50:34,319 --> 00:50:37,359
the boundaries where your setbacks are.

1166
00:50:37,359 --> 00:50:43,359
>> Oh, he didn't. Okay. That's not around.

1167
00:50:43,359 --> 00:50:46,549
>> I

1168
00:50:46,559 --> 00:50:49,119
um I have I have the application before

1169
00:50:49,119 --> 00:50:53,920
me and it shows the plot plans. Um I'm

1170
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:56,240
holding on to it right now. I don't I'm

1171
00:50:56,240 --> 00:50:57,920
assuming it got printed up when I

1172
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,720
submitted everything as a copy for

1173
00:51:00,720 --> 00:51:03,520
everybody. Um,

1174
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:07,680
I could tell you right now, um,

1175
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:09,599
I don't know if I could share it, but I

1176
00:51:09,599 --> 00:51:10,800
would have to put it on the

1177
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:12,800
>> the timeline, Peter.

1178
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:15,280
>> Um, whenever. I mean, obviously, I'd

1179
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:17,119
like to try to get it going as soon as

1180
00:51:17,119 --> 00:51:18,800
possible. I I still have to go before

1181
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:20,400
conservation.

1182
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:23,040
Um, but I mean, if if you're missing any

1183
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:25,760
information, I can uh just do a

1184
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:28,319
continuence and get that plot plan in

1185
00:51:28,319 --> 00:51:29,359
there.

1186
00:51:29,359 --> 00:51:31,040
>> That would be best.

1187
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:32,000
Okay,

1188
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:33,440
>> we can do that.

1189
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:34,960
>> Are you sure it's not in that? I have

1190
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:36,319
the whole application right before.

1191
00:51:36,319 --> 00:51:37,680
>> So, we've been through the folder and

1192
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:38,319
everything.

1193
00:51:38,319 --> 00:51:42,880
>> Really? Okay. I'm sorry about that.

1194
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:43,200
>> All right.

1195
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:47,040
>> So, Rob Hey, Rob.

1196
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:48,400
>> Rob, all I would say is if we're going

1197
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:50,319
to continue, let's get a plot plan and

1198
00:51:50,319 --> 00:51:52,000
let's get some uh let's get some

1199
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:54,079
dimension so we can see where that house

1200
00:51:54,079 --> 00:51:55,119
sits

1201
00:51:55,119 --> 00:51:56,800
>> so that we can just clearly see that

1202
00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:58,319
it's a special permit. And I believe

1203
00:51:58,319 --> 00:52:00,319
that it is. I just for Peter's sake, I

1204
00:52:00,319 --> 00:52:01,760
just want to make sure it's all on the

1205
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:02,720
plan. That's all.

1206
00:52:02,720 --> 00:52:06,240
>> No, absolutely. I didn't um it is a

1207
00:52:06,240 --> 00:52:08,480
special permit. I I'm too close to the

1208
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:12,079
uh to the street, so I'm already

1209
00:52:12,079 --> 00:52:13,839
non-compliant and the lot is

1210
00:52:13,839 --> 00:52:15,440
non-compliant.

1211
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:19,440
>> Um and all that stuff, but yeah, um

1212
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:21,040
I have it right in front of me, so I

1213
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:22,640
don't know why that happened. Okay, no

1214
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:24,880
problem. I I I appreciate a continuence

1215
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:25,599
if if

1216
00:52:25,599 --> 00:52:27,440
>> Let's continue to October 8th. We have a

1217
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:29,599
light schedule that week that's only two

1218
00:52:29,599 --> 00:52:30,960
weeks out.

1219
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:32,559
>> Okay. Need a motion.

1220
00:52:32,559 --> 00:52:35,839
>> I'll make a motion on the um application

1221
00:52:35,839 --> 00:52:39,440
of Kalin Peter Canavo

1222
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:42,960
103 Essex AV to continue the application

1223
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:45,839
to the October 8th meeting.

1224
00:52:45,839 --> 00:52:47,599
>> Second

1225
00:52:47,599 --> 00:52:50,160
and seconded. Roll call.

1226
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:51,520
>> Mr. Nyman.

1227
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:52,480
>> Yes.

1228
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:53,520
>> Mr. Wilson.

1229
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:54,319
>> Yes.

1230
00:52:54,319 --> 00:52:55,200
>> Miss Norton.

1231
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:56,079
>> Yes.

1232
00:52:56,079 --> 00:52:57,040
>> Mr. Crazy.

1233
00:52:57,040 --> 00:52:59,200
>> Yes. Okay, we'll take it up at the next

1234
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:00,160
meeting.

1235
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:02,079
>> Thank you everyone. Sorry.

1236
00:53:02,079 --> 00:53:02,960
>> No problem.

1237
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:04,160
>> Have a good night.

1238
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:05,040
>> You too.

1239
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:16,230
>> Bye.

1240
00:53:16,240 --> 00:53:17,920
» Okay. Our next hearing is the

1241
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:20,640
application of the YMCA of Northshore

1242
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:22,800
appealing the denial of a sign permit

1243
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:49,910
for the building at 67 Middle Street.

1244
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:52,400
Okay, go ahead, please.

1245
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:54,559
>> Hello, my name is Jen Hawkerman. I'm an

1246
00:53:54,559 --> 00:53:57,599
architect for the YMCA with SV Design,

1247
00:53:57,599 --> 00:54:01,040
126 Dodge Street in Beverly.

1248
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:03,359
>> I'm happy to bring up the materials that

1249
00:54:03,359 --> 00:54:05,119
were part of the application.

1250
00:54:05,119 --> 00:54:08,000
>> Jen, uh, on Zoom here, just got to have

1251
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:09,599
that right on your chin. Put Hold it in

1252
00:54:09,599 --> 00:54:10,800
your hand if it's easier, but right on

1253
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:12,319
your chin. Thanks.

1254
00:54:12,319 --> 00:54:13,839
>> Sure thing. Before you get started,

1255
00:54:13,839 --> 00:54:16,079
could we clarify something?

1256
00:54:16,079 --> 00:54:17,040
>> Yes.

1257
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:19,599
>> So,

1258
00:54:19,599 --> 00:54:21,119
every one of these applications that

1259
00:54:21,119 --> 00:54:24,720
we've had for the the 40BS and all this

1260
00:54:24,720 --> 00:54:27,920
stuff, we we go out of our way to say

1261
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:30,559
put everything on there that you want.

1262
00:54:30,559 --> 00:54:33,119
And I've cautioned you with the YMCA

1263
00:54:33,119 --> 00:54:35,520
one, with the other one down the

1264
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:38,960
Cameron's, you know, get it all on there

1265
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:40,880
so that you don't have to keep coming

1266
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:42,720
back for this kind of stuff. I'm a

1267
00:54:42,720 --> 00:54:45,280
little confused by you're appealing the

1268
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:47,040
denial. Why aren't you just applying for

1269
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:50,240
a special permit if the sign is too big?

1270
00:54:50,240 --> 00:54:52,800
>> So, we are we have not been denied. I

1271
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:54,000
think there's a

1272
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:58,000
>> clarification for a sign permit. I have

1273
00:54:58,000 --> 00:54:59,599
an appeal of the decision of the

1274
00:54:59,599 --> 00:55:03,440
building denying a signed permit.

1275
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:05,760
Am I missing something?

1276
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:07,599
>> We were also surprised to see it listed

1277
00:55:07,599 --> 00:55:10,800
as an denial, an appeal of a denial. We

1278
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:13,119
have not received a denial. We have not

1279
00:55:13,119 --> 00:55:14,640
submitted. We wanted to come to this

1280
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:17,599
board first and get your blessing before

1281
00:55:17,599 --> 00:55:22,630
submitting for a signed permit.

1282
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:25,119
» So you're asking for a special permit

1283
00:55:25,119 --> 00:55:26,960
for the sign that you proposed.

1284
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:27,599
>> That's correct.

1285
00:55:27,599 --> 00:55:29,680
>> Okay. So let's start the started from

1286
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:31,119
that perspective. We were under the

1287
00:55:31,119 --> 00:55:35,680
impression there was a denial. So

1288
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:37,599
okay, go ahead. Thank you.

1289
00:55:37,599 --> 00:55:39,200
>> Sure.

1290
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:41,440
So, if I think everybody has our packet

1291
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:43,520
information, what we're looking to do is

1292
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:45,280
uh two things with the signage on the

1293
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:47,280
front of the Patillo building at 67

1294
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:49,520
Middle Street. Uh one is to add

1295
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:52,559
dimensional letters to the existing sort

1296
00:55:52,559 --> 00:55:56,480
of three panels above the front entry

1297
00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:59,200
and the second is to add a sign that is

1298
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:02,160
over the center opening. Both of these

1299
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:04,400
design moves are in keeping with the

1300
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:06,319
historic character and we have included

1301
00:56:06,319 --> 00:56:09,040
historic photos of the building in our

1302
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:12,640
um packet. We also had visited the

1303
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:14,400
historic district commission and gotten

1304
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:17,920
their blessing on the design as well.

1305
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:20,880
We are looking to use um historically

1306
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:23,119
appropriate colors

1307
00:56:23,119 --> 00:56:25,040
to complement the both what was there

1308
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:26,960
before and what is there now. The

1309
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:28,559
building is being named after a

1310
00:56:28,559 --> 00:56:30,720
wonderful supporter of the YMCA and

1311
00:56:30,720 --> 00:56:32,240
their mission who has helped to bring

1312
00:56:32,240 --> 00:56:35,920
about housing uh within this town and

1313
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:39,440
for the YMCA in general. I'm happy to

1314
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:41,040
answer any specific questions regarding

1315
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:42,559
the signage.

1316
00:56:42,559 --> 00:56:45,839
>> I I do um what's the number really going

1317
00:56:45,839 --> 00:56:47,359
to be?

1318
00:56:47,359 --> 00:56:50,079
>> It's 67 Middle Street. Interestingly,

1319
00:56:50,079 --> 00:56:51,599
>> like upside down 29.

1320
00:56:51,599 --> 00:56:53,839
>> It does. So, interestingly, back in the

1321
00:56:53,839 --> 00:56:56,000
day when they initially um did this, you

1322
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:57,520
can see in the historic photos, they did

1323
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:00,480
use an upside down 29. And so, what we

1324
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:02,400
have done is taken the two, the upside

1325
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:04,079
down two, and made it a little less

1326
00:57:04,079 --> 00:57:07,040
obvious. So, what we're proposing is in

1327
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:09,200
keeping with the historic character, but

1328
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:10,880
doesn't look exactly like an upside down

1329
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:13,599
two.

1330
00:57:13,599 --> 00:57:15,440
>> So, you are putting it as shown on

1331
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:18,000
because we I will have to sign a stamp

1332
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:19,119
plan at some point.

1333
00:57:19,119 --> 00:57:21,760
>> Yes. So my first reaction is wait a

1334
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:24,559
minute the number's wrong. So that was

1335
00:57:24,559 --> 00:57:28,549
my reaction [laughter] too.

1336
00:57:28,559 --> 00:57:31,119
» So I just have a question.

1337
00:57:31,119 --> 00:57:33,440
Are you requesting

1338
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:38,240
relief under section 4.3

1339
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:41,430
one?

1340
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:42,640
» What would that and what would that

1341
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:44,480
square footage be? That's got to be in

1342
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:46,640
the decision, too.

1343
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:49,599
>> So, so do you need do you need a special

1344
00:57:49,599 --> 00:57:53,760
permit for the three larger,

1345
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:56,319
you know, sort of in the Mckne Commons

1346
00:57:56,319 --> 00:58:00,160
uh estimate established 2026 or is that

1347
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:02,880
just replacing what's there?

1348
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:04,480
>> It is replacing what is there with

1349
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:07,440
different letters, different font, uh

1350
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:09,520
different sizes than what was previously

1351
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:11,359
there. And then the sign that hangs

1352
00:58:11,359 --> 00:58:13,599
below is something new. It is not. Sure.

1353
00:58:13,599 --> 00:58:15,119
>> We haven't had a sign like that, you

1354
00:58:15,119 --> 00:58:17,440
know, since it was the furniture store.

1355
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:19,839
>> When you change a sign, you have to

1356
00:58:19,839 --> 00:58:20,559
permit it.

1357
00:58:20,559 --> 00:58:20,960
>> Yes.

1358
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:21,920
>> Okay.

1359
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:26,000
>> So, what we're interested in is

1360
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:28,960
the square footage that's allowed and

1361
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:31,200
how much square feet do you need so that

1362
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:33,200
we can approve the right amount.

1363
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:35,920
>> And then also there's a detached sign,

1364
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:38,240
right? like under

1365
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:40,720
>> the the detached sign underneath in the

1366
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:45,200
center is 84 in by 30 in 7 ft by 2 and

1367
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:47,520
1/2 ft.

1368
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:49,680
>> So 17 and 12 square feet. Is that right?

1369
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:51,760
>> And 17 and 12.

1370
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:54,160
>> Yes.

1371
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:55,839
>> Want to make sure we get it all correct.

1372
00:58:55,839 --> 00:58:56,160
That

1373
00:58:56,160 --> 00:59:07,109
>> Thank you.

1374
00:59:07,119 --> 00:59:14,630
Okay. Anybody have any other questions?

1375
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:17,200
» So, Joe, again, this is just

1376
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:18,720
>> Go ahead.

1377
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:21,359
>> Well, just to clarify, so the detached

1378
00:59:21,359 --> 00:59:24,480
sign would be under 4319

1379
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:29,040
and then the other sign is just a

1380
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:32,559
general sign permit.

1381
00:59:32,559 --> 00:59:35,440
It's is over the footage. So you're only

1382
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:40,549
allowed I think it's what 10

1383
00:59:40,559 --> 00:59:42,960
» CB. So they're

1384
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:49,750
>> 30 square feet. What do we have?

1385
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:52,160
» Right. All this

1386
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:54,400
>> and that.

1387
00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:58,960
>> So how much are we total footage?

1388
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:01,599
Anybody know?

1389
01:00:01,599 --> 01:00:03,599
We have to permit anything over 30

1390
01:00:03,599 --> 01:00:06,240
square feet.

1391
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:08,960
>> Well, it says maximum total sign area

1392
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:10,640
square footage of 60.

1393
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:17,670
>> Yeah, CB total sign CB would be 30

1394
01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:23,109
page.

1395
01:00:23,119 --> 01:00:26,160
So if we are looking at the

1396
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:28,720
total signage, the pieces that say Mckne

1397
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:32,079
Commons established 2026, each of those

1398
01:00:32,079 --> 01:00:36,720
is roughly 10 ft uh by 14 1/2 in. The

1399
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:38,799
signage itself, the actual letters is

1400
01:00:38,799 --> 01:00:41,760
not that big, but that is the panels.

1401
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:46,400
>> Yeah, the letters is what 32 by

1402
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:48,400
>> the letters are 9 in tall.

1403
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:52,400
3 32 33 34 about 35*

1404
01:00:52,400 --> 01:01:04,069
75 right that's the letters

1405
01:01:04,079 --> 01:01:06,079
» uh 26.25

1406
01:01:06,079 --> 01:01:08,240
for the letters.

1407
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:10,799
>> Uh,

1408
01:01:10,799 --> 01:01:15,040
detach sign setback because that's not

1409
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:19,430
located within the front yard.

1410
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:19,920
» This one,

1411
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:22,480
>> that would be a not the one hang that

1412
01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:25,040
would be attached.

1413
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:26,640
>> It's not one hanging. It's an attached

1414
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:28,160
sign.

1415
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:30,720
Yeah, that's a tax total.

1416
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:33,920
>> So if if if the letters on the on the

1417
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:36,160
sort of long horizontal panel are less

1418
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:38,160
than 30, do they need a permit for that

1419
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:40,240
or are they good with that?

1420
01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:42,720
>> Oh, they need it's total sign area.

1421
01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:44,079
>> I see. Okay. Yeah,

1422
01:01:44,079 --> 01:01:47,040
>> they're over 30. No question.

1423
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:49,440
>> Let's just do a special permit for to

1424
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:51,119
exceed

1425
01:01:51,119 --> 01:01:55,040
the square footage of sign. So I I came

1426
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:56,960
up with

1427
01:01:56,960 --> 01:02:02,880
26.25 for the upper and 17.5 for the the

1428
01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:04,319
lower panel.

1429
01:02:04,319 --> 01:02:05,040
>> I show you.

1430
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:09,599
>> So 43.75. So 44 square ft.

1431
01:02:09,599 --> 01:02:10,480
>> Actual letters

1432
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:13,920
>> permit to exceed the square footage up

1433
01:02:13,920 --> 01:02:16,880
to whatever that number is. We got

1434
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:18,160
they'll have to include that in the

1435
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:21,510
decision.

1436
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:23,200
We'll get the hard number for the

1437
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:28,240
decision. The exact They did the math.

1438
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:31,040
>> Okay.

1439
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:34,160
I want to open public testimony. Anyone

1440
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:35,440
wishing to speak in favor of the

1441
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:38,240
application? Anyone in favor?

1442
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:39,599
Come forward or raise your hand if

1443
01:02:39,599 --> 01:02:42,880
you're on Zoom.

1444
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:45,280
If there is none, anyone in opposition

1445
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:51,030
to the sign? Any opposition?

1446
01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:54,000
Okay. See no reason why.

1447
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:56,400
Close the public hearing.

1448
01:02:56,400 --> 01:03:01,829
Entertain a motion.

1449
01:03:01,839 --> 01:03:05,359
Okay. Um, on the application of YMCA of

1450
01:03:05,359 --> 01:03:07,280
the Northshore,

1451
01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:10,319
67 Middle Street,

1452
01:03:10,319 --> 01:03:13,359
uh, I make a motion to approve a special

1453
01:03:13,359 --> 01:03:16,240
permit for

1454
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:20,559
the aggregate of the signs on the front

1455
01:03:20,559 --> 01:03:23,200
of the building,

1456
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:28,640
approximately 44 square feet. Um,

1457
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:32,240
under section 4.3

1458
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:35,510
two

1459
01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:36,559
» second.

1460
01:03:36,559 --> 01:03:38,160
>> Motion made and seconded. Roll call

1461
01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:40,559
vote.

1462
01:03:40,559 --> 01:03:42,079
>> Mr. Nyman.

1463
01:03:42,079 --> 01:03:44,079
>> Uh, yes. And just a comment, I just

1464
01:03:44,079 --> 01:03:46,079
really It does not that it matters. I

1465
01:03:46,079 --> 01:03:47,920
just really think you've done a really

1466
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:50,960
tasteful job with the signage.

1467
01:03:50,960 --> 01:03:53,359
>> Thank you, Mr. Wilson.

1468
01:03:53,359 --> 01:03:54,079
>> Yes.

1469
01:03:54,079 --> 01:03:55,039
>> Miss Norton?

1470
01:03:55,039 --> 01:03:56,480
>> Yes. Mr. Prey?

1471
01:03:56,480 --> 01:03:58,319
>> Yes.

1472
01:03:58,319 --> 01:04:00,480
The decisions favorable.

1473
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:02,880
Will you be doing a draft

1474
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:04,160
or no?

1475
01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:05,280
>> I can.

1476
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:05,680
>> Okay.

1477
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:07,119
>> I can

1478
01:04:07,119 --> 01:04:09,280
>> the office can help with the template

1479
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:10,880
>> and and the wise attorney can also

1480
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:12,960
assist. Thank you.

1481
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:14,720
>> Our next hearing is the application of

1482
01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:17,200
Nick and Christine Geekas seeking a

1483
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:19,039
special permit variance to construct a

1484
01:04:19,039 --> 01:04:48,150
single family home at 29 Flume Row.

1485
01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:49,520
One moment, please. Let's get my

1486
01:04:49,520 --> 01:05:17,430
PowerPoint up.

1487
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:38,390
Sorry guys, it's just loading.

1488
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:41,430
Okay,

1489
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:43,280
for the record, my name is Joel Favaza.

1490
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:45,760
I'm an attorney at 123 Main Street in

1491
01:05:45,760 --> 01:05:47,680
Gloucester, Massachusetts. They're on

1492
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:49,280
behalf of Nicholas and Christine Gigas,

1493
01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:51,440
the trustee owners of 29 Flume Road in

1494
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:53,520
Gloucester. They are seeking to

1495
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:57,039
construct a single family home on a

1496
01:05:57,039 --> 01:05:59,520
non-conforming

1497
01:05:59,520 --> 01:06:03,119
grandfathered lot.

1498
01:06:03,119 --> 01:06:06,160
That's the site plan right there. So, by

1499
01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:08,559
way of background, we are in the R20 low

1500
01:06:08,559 --> 01:06:10,720
medium density residential district. The

1501
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:12,720
lot is non-conforming. It has 10,000

1502
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:14,319
square feet where normally you'd have

1503
01:06:14,319 --> 01:06:18,319
20,000 in the R20. It is protected as a

1504
01:06:18,319 --> 01:06:21,599
legally buildable lot pursuant to master

1505
01:06:21,599 --> 01:06:24,480
law chapter 48 section 6. This lot was

1506
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:26,720
created in 1964 and conveyed out of

1507
01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:29,200
common ownership in 1973. When it was

1508
01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:31,119
conveyed out of common ownership, all

1509
01:06:31,119 --> 01:06:32,960
you needed was 10,000 square ft. This

1510
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:34,720
was an allowable separate lot at the

1511
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:37,039
time. My clients acquired the property

1512
01:06:37,039 --> 01:06:39,280
in 2025 and again they intend to

1513
01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:41,440
construct their primary residence here

1514
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:43,839
on the lot. You may recall they were

1515
01:06:43,839 --> 01:06:46,400
before you unrepresented in May with a

1516
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:47,920
previous design. They withdrew that

1517
01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:50,480
without prejudice to retool the design.

1518
01:06:50,480 --> 01:06:52,079
The last one was pressing, you know,

1519
01:06:52,079 --> 01:06:53,440
height exceptions and a few other

1520
01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:56,160
things. So what has changed since the

1521
01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:58,079
May application? Well, one is that

1522
01:06:58,079 --> 01:07:00,400
during the May application, you

1523
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:02,079
reviewing it under the so-called

1524
01:07:02,079 --> 01:07:04,640
superseding setbacks. That was

1525
01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:06,319
incorrect. Unfortunately, the

1526
01:07:06,319 --> 01:07:08,400
superseding setbacks only apply to

1527
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:12,240
structures that were in existence when

1528
01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:14,720
the um the new dimensional requirements

1529
01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:16,079
came through. It does not apply to

1530
01:07:16,079 --> 01:07:18,079
vacant lots. We are stuck using the full

1531
01:07:18,079 --> 01:07:21,839
R20 dimensional restrictions. Again,

1532
01:07:21,839 --> 01:07:25,440
they also decreased the height of the

1533
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:27,599
structure to get under the 30 ft above

1534
01:07:27,599 --> 01:07:30,799
average grade. Um they did attempt to

1535
01:07:30,799 --> 01:07:33,119
shift the placement of the house around

1536
01:07:33,119 --> 01:07:36,720
some more. Um Unfortunately,

1537
01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:38,240
you can't make everyone happy. And if

1538
01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:40,400
you push it left, then one neighbor gets

1539
01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:42,000
upset, so you push back right, another

1540
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:43,440
neighbor gets upset. And there was

1541
01:07:43,440 --> 01:07:45,760
really there was no sweet spot where it

1542
01:07:45,760 --> 01:07:48,000
was satisfying everybody. And then

1543
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:49,680
another uh change that's important for

1544
01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:51,839
tonight is that in the interim, the law

1545
01:07:51,839 --> 01:07:54,640
has changed as to what is needed to

1546
01:07:54,640 --> 01:07:59,440
demonstrate to um obtain a variance. So

1547
01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:01,280
the relief we're looking for are three

1548
01:08:01,280 --> 01:08:03,920
variances. We need a front yard

1549
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:06,160
variance. 30 ft is required. We're

1550
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:09,760
proposing 12.9 ft. Sideyard would be 20

1551
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:12,240
ft required. 10.2 is being proposed. And

1552
01:08:12,240 --> 01:08:13,839
if you deem necessary, we'll take the

1553
01:08:13,839 --> 01:08:16,560
lot area variance. Case law is a little

1554
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:19,199
murky. It's the protected buildable lot.

1555
01:08:19,199 --> 01:08:20,719
So, I don't know that we need the 10,000

1556
01:08:20,719 --> 01:08:22,719
square foot relief, but while we're here

1557
01:08:22,719 --> 01:08:24,239
asking for relief, we just put it on

1558
01:08:24,239 --> 01:08:26,239
there as a belt and suspenders kind of

1559
01:08:26,239 --> 01:08:29,359
thing. Um,

1560
01:08:29,359 --> 01:08:32,000
okay.

1561
01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:34,319
And we have the updated chart here. I

1562
01:08:34,319 --> 01:08:36,239
think that um the one we submitted had

1563
01:08:36,239 --> 01:08:39,279
an incorrect calculation on lot width.

1564
01:08:39,279 --> 01:08:42,319
Um but either way the corrected version

1565
01:08:42,319 --> 01:08:44,960
is here and there's lot with complies.

1566
01:08:44,960 --> 01:08:49,110
Um regardless

1567
01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:51,440
per usual we have the full set of plans

1568
01:08:51,440 --> 01:08:53,600
if we need to go back to reference those

1569
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:57,279
renderings 2D elevations

1570
01:08:57,279 --> 01:08:59,199
floor plans

1571
01:08:59,199 --> 01:09:01,679
etc.

1572
01:09:01,679 --> 01:09:05,920
view looking out toward the ocean

1573
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:08,640
180 plus 180 degrees but looking back up

1574
01:09:08,640 --> 01:09:10,560
at the lot.

1575
01:09:10,560 --> 01:09:13,120
This is the aerial photography and that

1576
01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:16,799
is just the GIS map. So, as you are

1577
01:09:16,799 --> 01:09:19,359
hopefully well aware, the new variant

1578
01:09:19,359 --> 01:09:22,000
standard that took place this summer

1579
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:23,920
says that the board shall grant a

1580
01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:25,759
variance from a particular term of

1581
01:09:25,759 --> 01:09:28,239
ordinance if you find that strict

1582
01:09:28,239 --> 01:09:31,120
enforcement would result in a practical

1583
01:09:31,120 --> 01:09:34,550
difficulty.

1584
01:09:34,560 --> 01:09:37,199
The new law gives you a balancing test

1585
01:09:37,199 --> 01:09:38,960
you're supposed to employ. And the the

1586
01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:41,359
test is whether the benefit to the

1587
01:09:41,359 --> 01:09:43,440
petitioner, that would be my client, and

1588
01:09:43,440 --> 01:09:45,199
the public interest in supporting the

1589
01:09:45,199 --> 01:09:47,679
production of housing. You weigh that

1590
01:09:47,679 --> 01:09:49,199
against potential detriment to public

1591
01:09:49,199 --> 01:09:50,799
health, safety, and the welfare of the

1592
01:09:50,799 --> 01:09:54,000
neighborhood. You're allowed to consider

1593
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:55,600
uh several factors. You're not required

1594
01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:57,120
to consider all of them, but you may

1595
01:09:57,120 --> 01:10:01,760
consider all of them or some of them as you deem relevant. We'll get into

1596
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:04,560
those one by one in a moment.

1597
01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:07,600
Um, but again, this is a pretty big C

1598
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:09,840
change. Variances used to be you could

1599
01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:11,040
only get a variance if you had a

1600
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:12,960
substantial hardship, etc. It was really

1601
01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:14,880
supposed to be the exception. And the

1602
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:16,640
legislature took a look at what was

1603
01:10:16,640 --> 01:10:18,159
going on and the lack of housing

1604
01:10:18,159 --> 01:10:19,440
production and one of the big things

1605
01:10:19,440 --> 01:10:22,239
being difficult variances were to obtain

1606
01:10:22,239 --> 01:10:24,000
and how many things needed variances.

1607
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:25,280
And so they really flipped it on its

1608
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:27,199
head intentionally. And now it says

1609
01:10:27,199 --> 01:10:29,520
instructs the board you shall grant one

1610
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:31,120
if you find that there'll be a practical

1611
01:10:31,120 --> 01:10:33,360
difficulty in requiring strict

1612
01:10:33,360 --> 01:10:35,280
enforcement. In this case we'll go

1613
01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:36,640
through the practical difficulty is

1614
01:10:36,640 --> 01:10:38,800
trying to site a conforming structure

1615
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:42,080
within the building envelope um on this

1616
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:43,920
lot.

1617
01:10:43,920 --> 01:10:45,840
So again

1618
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:48,159
here is the aerial showing you the funny

1619
01:10:48,159 --> 01:10:50,320
shape. If this line wasn't here you'd

1620
01:10:50,320 --> 01:10:51,679
look and go oh it's just like the rest

1621
01:10:51,679 --> 01:10:53,199
of the lots. It's a nice rectangle.

1622
01:10:53,199 --> 01:10:55,840
Unfortunately, layout of flume takes a

1623
01:10:55,840 --> 01:10:59,679
very large chunk of um what otherwise

1624
01:10:59,679 --> 01:11:02,640
appears to be lot area and therefore we

1625
01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:04,159
have to measure setbacks off of those

1626
01:11:04,159 --> 01:11:06,320
lines, not off of the the physical stuff

1627
01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:10,159
that we have out there. So at maximum we

1628
01:11:10,159 --> 01:11:13,440
have 33 feet of width

1629
01:11:13,440 --> 01:11:17,679
um to build a house. Uh unfortunately

1630
01:11:17,679 --> 01:11:19,520
most of that is at the southern end. You

1631
01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:21,120
can't build the house down there because

1632
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:23,280
the suitable soils for a septic system

1633
01:11:23,280 --> 01:11:25,280
are at the southern portion of the

1634
01:11:25,280 --> 01:11:28,480
property. So that last that bottom third

1635
01:11:28,480 --> 01:11:30,320
basically of the wider part of the lot

1636
01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:32,560
of the buildable envelope is off limits

1637
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:34,000
because you need to sight your septic

1638
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:35,679
system down there and then you need to

1639
01:11:35,679 --> 01:11:37,199
have sufficient distance from the septic

1640
01:11:37,199 --> 01:11:39,520
system to your house. That pushes

1641
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:41,360
everything toward the north. As you go

1642
01:11:41,360 --> 01:11:43,600
toward the north, as you can see, that

1643
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:45,440
red triangle up there is every part of

1644
01:11:45,440 --> 01:11:47,679
the so-called building envelope that is

1645
01:11:47,679 --> 01:11:49,360
less than 20 feet in width and is not

1646
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:52,480
practical for um a residence. So, you

1647
01:11:52,480 --> 01:11:57,120
have less than 10% of the lot becomes a

1648
01:11:57,120 --> 01:11:59,679
viable building envelope where the R20

1649
01:11:59,679 --> 01:12:01,520
district allows you otherwise that's a

1650
01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:05,040
25% lot coverage for for structures. So,

1651
01:12:05,040 --> 01:12:07,360
it's a huge constraint to try and get

1652
01:12:07,360 --> 01:12:10,080
something into that little um that

1653
01:12:10,080 --> 01:12:13,679
little window of yellow.

1654
01:12:13,679 --> 01:12:16,159
So, you're supposed to analyze how

1655
01:12:16,159 --> 01:12:18,480
granting a variance will benefit my

1656
01:12:18,480 --> 01:12:20,480
client and how benefit the public

1657
01:12:20,480 --> 01:12:22,960
interest of creating housing. Well, of

1658
01:12:22,960 --> 01:12:24,239
course, the benefit of my client's

1659
01:12:24,239 --> 01:12:26,320
pretty easy. It's going to allow my

1660
01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:28,719
clients to construct their primary

1661
01:12:28,719 --> 01:12:30,560
residence and move into the property

1662
01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:32,480
they've purchased. And then you go,

1663
01:12:32,480 --> 01:12:34,560
okay, will it benefit the public

1664
01:12:34,560 --> 01:12:36,080
interest of creating housing? Again,

1665
01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:37,760
that's a pretty easy one. We're going to

1666
01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:39,440
be creating a unit of housing where

1667
01:12:39,440 --> 01:12:41,520
currently there is none. This variant

1668
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:43,360
standard is designed to make sure that

1669
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:44,960
housing is created in the Commonwealth

1670
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:47,360
and that um you know, otherwise

1671
01:12:47,360 --> 01:12:49,920
unbuildable or difficult buildable lots

1672
01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:52,320
don't remain vacant. And then you go,

1673
01:12:52,320 --> 01:12:54,080
okay, well, what about the detriment to

1674
01:12:54,080 --> 01:12:55,840
the public health, safety, or welfare of

1675
01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:57,600
the neighborhood? Again, I don't think

1676
01:12:57,600 --> 01:13:01,040
you'll find any um detriment to either

1677
01:13:01,040 --> 01:13:02,960
of those categories and we'll discuss

1678
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:05,600
that in a bit. So again, these four

1679
01:13:05,600 --> 01:13:08,480
factors, you allowed to weigh them,

1680
01:13:08,480 --> 01:13:10,480
you're allowed to not weigh them, but I

1681
01:13:10,480 --> 01:13:12,159
think um we should go through all of

1682
01:13:12,159 --> 01:13:13,760
them and you can decide what you find

1683
01:13:13,760 --> 01:13:15,440
relevant. So the first one is whether

1684
01:13:15,440 --> 01:13:17,280
the practical difficulty relates to soil

1685
01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:19,440
conditions, shape of land or structures.

1686
01:13:19,440 --> 01:13:21,280
So we talked about the shape of the lot

1687
01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:22,960
is driving a huge component of this

1688
01:13:22,960 --> 01:13:24,560
practical difficulty and that has that

1689
01:13:24,560 --> 01:13:25,920
funny curve throughout the northern

1690
01:13:25,920 --> 01:13:29,600
corner. As to soil again all the good

1691
01:13:29,600 --> 01:13:31,600
soil for a septic system is down where

1692
01:13:31,600 --> 01:13:33,040
you would otherwise want to build the

1693
01:13:33,040 --> 01:13:34,560
house where the building envelope is

1694
01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:38,480
widest. And because it is a corner lot

1695
01:13:38,480 --> 01:13:40,560
that frontage line which has the

1696
01:13:40,560 --> 01:13:43,679
greatest setback um or tied with the

1697
01:13:43,679 --> 01:13:46,880
rear line takes the northern the entire

1698
01:13:46,880 --> 01:13:48,800
northern and eastern sides of this lot.

1699
01:13:48,800 --> 01:13:50,239
So right there, the practical difficulty

1700
01:13:50,239 --> 01:13:52,239
clearly comes out of soil conditions,

1701
01:13:52,239 --> 01:13:54,640
the shape of the law, etc. You should

1702
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:56,080
also consider whether strict enforcement

1703
01:13:56,080 --> 01:13:57,600
would impose a financial hardship on the

1704
01:13:57,600 --> 01:13:59,520
petitioner. Well, my my clients paid

1705
01:13:59,520 --> 01:14:02,800
$840,000 to purchase it. The city deems

1706
01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:04,960
the property buildable and taxes them at

1707
01:14:04,960 --> 01:14:08,080
a half million valuation every year. Um,

1708
01:14:08,080 --> 01:14:10,239
and if we don't get variances, that

1709
01:14:10,239 --> 01:14:13,440
little yellow area is barely big enough

1710
01:14:13,440 --> 01:14:16,320
for a garage and an ADU above it. Um but

1711
01:14:16,320 --> 01:14:18,000
you still have the same site prep costs,

1712
01:14:18,000 --> 01:14:19,440
the same septic system installation

1713
01:14:19,440 --> 01:14:22,239
costs. It' be a huge financial loss to

1714
01:14:22,239 --> 01:14:24,159
uh require strict enforcement and build

1715
01:14:24,159 --> 01:14:26,480
something within that small yellow area.

1716
01:14:26,480 --> 01:14:27,840
You can also weigh whether the benefit

1717
01:14:27,840 --> 01:14:29,280
sought by the petitioner can be achieved

1718
01:14:29,280 --> 01:14:31,840
by some other method feasible with a um

1719
01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:33,520
that's feasible, you know, complying,

1720
01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:35,440
right? So again, there's no practical

1721
01:14:35,440 --> 01:14:37,280
design that sits inside all of the

1722
01:14:37,280 --> 01:14:38,880
setbacks.

1723
01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:41,199
My client has tried to appease the

1724
01:14:41,199 --> 01:14:42,640
neighbors with the sighting, but again,

1725
01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:45,280
as you move it one way to the other, you

1726
01:14:45,280 --> 01:14:46,800
end up, you know, appeasing someone and

1727
01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:48,960
upsetting someone else. So, this is the

1728
01:14:48,960 --> 01:14:50,719
best they can do with the myriad of

1729
01:14:50,719 --> 01:14:53,679
concerns and requests that came in.

1730
01:14:53,679 --> 01:14:55,040
And then you're allowed to consider

1731
01:14:55,040 --> 01:14:56,320
whether the practical difficulty was

1732
01:14:56,320 --> 01:14:59,199
self-created or not. This one was not.

1733
01:14:59,199 --> 01:15:01,440
Again, this lot was created in 1964 and

1734
01:15:01,440 --> 01:15:02,880
not by my clients. It was conveyed out

1735
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:04,560
in 1973 and remained buildable

1736
01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:07,120
thereafter. The MLS listing

1737
01:15:07,120 --> 01:15:09,520
unfortunately claimed it was R10 zoning

1738
01:15:09,520 --> 01:15:11,440
and I have a copy of that listing right

1739
01:15:11,440 --> 01:15:12,880
there. Build your dream home

1740
01:15:12,880 --> 01:15:15,120
grandfathered into R10 zoning.

1741
01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:17,360
Incorrect. And the city assesses it as

1742
01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:19,840
residential and developable. So even the

1743
01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:22,159
city anticipates that a structure will

1744
01:15:22,159 --> 01:15:25,520
be built on this property.

1745
01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:28,239
Now you received a letter submitted by

1746
01:15:28,239 --> 01:15:30,239
attorney Elotis in opposition to this. I

1747
01:15:30,239 --> 01:15:31,360
want to just quickly go through because

1748
01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:32,800
unfortunately that letter seemed to

1749
01:15:32,800 --> 01:15:34,880
misstate the law throughout most of it

1750
01:15:34,880 --> 01:15:36,960
and cites some nonprotected interests

1751
01:15:36,960 --> 01:15:39,280
that I think need to be uh cleared up.

1752
01:15:39,280 --> 01:15:41,040
So the first argument is that the lot

1753
01:15:41,040 --> 01:15:42,480
with variance is needed but not

1754
01:15:42,480 --> 01:15:46,159
requested. Um with all due respect,

1755
01:15:46,159 --> 01:15:49,120
attorney uh misunderstands the GZO

1756
01:15:49,120 --> 01:15:51,360
treats corner lots. He says this lot

1757
01:15:51,360 --> 01:15:53,440
only has one sideyard setback. That's

1758
01:15:53,440 --> 01:15:55,520
wrong. He incorrectly measures the lot

1759
01:15:55,520 --> 01:15:57,360
width based on that misunderstanding.

1760
01:15:57,360 --> 01:15:59,760
Again in the diagram here, the front

1761
01:15:59,760 --> 01:16:01,760
yard line is that green line which runs

1762
01:16:01,760 --> 01:16:04,159
again the entire northern eastern side.

1763
01:16:04,159 --> 01:16:06,719
Lot width is a line is a line drawn

1764
01:16:06,719 --> 01:16:10,080
parallel to the frontage line at the

1765
01:16:10,080 --> 01:16:11,520
that intersects at the point of the

1766
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:14,239
structure closest to that line. So that

1767
01:16:14,239 --> 01:16:16,400
dashed orange line by definition is the

1768
01:16:16,400 --> 01:16:19,920
lot width and that is um more than 2x

1769
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:22,880
the required lot width. So we don't need

1770
01:16:22,880 --> 01:16:24,400
a lot with variance and that's why there

1771
01:16:24,400 --> 01:16:27,280
is no lot with variance requested.

1772
01:16:27,280 --> 01:16:28,960
Second argument he makes is about loss

1773
01:16:28,960 --> 01:16:30,800
of view and loss of value. As this

1774
01:16:30,800 --> 01:16:33,120
board's well aware, view is not a

1775
01:16:33,120 --> 01:16:34,640
protected interest in the Gloucester

1776
01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:36,320
zoning ordinance unless you're exceeding

1777
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:38,400
the maximum allowable height. This

1778
01:16:38,400 --> 01:16:40,560
proposed height is sorry, this proposed

1779
01:16:40,560 --> 01:16:42,480
house will be under 30 feet above

1780
01:16:42,480 --> 01:16:45,040
average grade. So there is no protected

1781
01:16:45,040 --> 01:16:48,640
view interest um per the GO.

1782
01:16:48,640 --> 01:16:50,960
Additionally, a reduction in value of

1783
01:16:50,960 --> 01:16:52,560
neighboring properties is not a

1784
01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:56,159
protected interest under the GZO or 4DA.

1785
01:16:56,159 --> 01:16:58,320
There was um a recent superior court

1786
01:16:58,320 --> 01:17:01,520
case where someone was appealing a um

1787
01:17:01,520 --> 01:17:03,679
recent a 2024 decision that you had

1788
01:17:03,679 --> 01:17:05,520
granted. One of the arguments that

1789
01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:07,440
appellant made was, hey, this is going

1790
01:17:07,440 --> 01:17:10,560
to reduce the value of my house. And the

1791
01:17:10,560 --> 01:17:12,960
judge um granted a motion dismiss and

1792
01:17:12,960 --> 01:17:14,320
threw it out and said that's not a

1793
01:17:14,320 --> 01:17:16,159
protected interest. just because

1794
01:17:16,159 --> 01:17:17,679
someone's house devalues your house.

1795
01:17:17,679 --> 01:17:19,199
It's nothing that the local ordinance or

1796
01:17:19,199 --> 01:17:22,880
the state um says is protectable.

1797
01:17:22,880 --> 01:17:25,199
Then um attorney amuses gets into an

1798
01:17:25,199 --> 01:17:27,120
argument about hardship. Again, we're

1799
01:17:27,120 --> 01:17:29,440
very clear. There is no hardship

1800
01:17:29,440 --> 01:17:31,760
standard. That is gone. You no longer

1801
01:17:31,760 --> 01:17:33,679
need to prove quote that it's virtually

1802
01:17:33,679 --> 01:17:36,080
unbuildable without variances. You only

1803
01:17:36,080 --> 01:17:40,080
have to show practical difficulty. And

1804
01:17:40,080 --> 01:17:42,480
you'll note that in his letter, attorney

1805
01:17:42,480 --> 01:17:45,840
Ambiotus um admits that the neighbors

1806
01:17:45,840 --> 01:17:48,239
concede that there does exist some

1807
01:17:48,239 --> 01:17:50,480
practical difficulties due to the nature

1808
01:17:50,480 --> 01:17:52,719
of the law. So even they admit that

1809
01:17:52,719 --> 01:17:54,560
we've met the correct standard. Their

1810
01:17:54,560 --> 01:17:56,480
argument, however, about hardship tries

1811
01:17:56,480 --> 01:17:59,120
to um basically blindside you with

1812
01:17:59,120 --> 01:18:01,360
irrelevant arguments on a extinct

1813
01:18:01,360 --> 01:18:03,280
standard.

1814
01:18:03,280 --> 01:18:05,040
There's an argument about the front yard

1815
01:18:05,040 --> 01:18:06,719
and the distance from the street.

1816
01:18:06,719 --> 01:18:08,640
There's concern about a quote extreme

1817
01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:10,640
reduction the established visual

1818
01:18:10,640 --> 01:18:13,360
character um and the safety as you come

1819
01:18:13,360 --> 01:18:15,679
around this corner. So the vast majority

1820
01:18:15,679 --> 01:18:17,920
of this neighborhood does not come close

1821
01:18:17,920 --> 01:18:20,719
to meeting the 30foot front yard

1822
01:18:20,719 --> 01:18:22,640
setback.

1823
01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:25,440
Regardless, this structure is more than

1824
01:18:25,440 --> 01:18:28,400
30 feet from the improved portion of

1825
01:18:28,400 --> 01:18:31,360
Flume Road. It's actually more than 55

1826
01:18:31,360 --> 01:18:33,760
ft from that corner intersection. So

1827
01:18:33,760 --> 01:18:35,360
although it may not meet the technical

1828
01:18:35,360 --> 01:18:37,600
front yard of being 30 feet back from

1829
01:18:37,600 --> 01:18:41,360
the property line, as far as um

1830
01:18:41,360 --> 01:18:43,280
conforming to the idea that you want

1831
01:18:43,280 --> 01:18:44,960
some space between a house and the road

1832
01:18:44,960 --> 01:18:46,880
to make sure there's good sight lines,

1833
01:18:46,880 --> 01:18:49,040
again, we're 55 ft back from the

1834
01:18:49,040 --> 01:18:51,679
traveled intersection and it's closest

1835
01:18:51,679 --> 01:18:54,560
um no closer than no closer than 30 feet

1836
01:18:54,560 --> 01:18:57,840
from the paved part of the road.

1837
01:18:57,840 --> 01:19:00,560
And that is again the superposition of

1838
01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:04,480
the proposed house. And you see how far

1839
01:19:04,480 --> 01:19:07,040
away it is from the actual traveled and

1840
01:19:07,040 --> 01:19:09,600
paved portions of Flume Road. It's just

1841
01:19:09,600 --> 01:19:11,920
close to the layout of Flume Road that

1842
01:19:11,920 --> 01:19:14,560
has not been improved and would not be

1843
01:19:14,560 --> 01:19:19,110
improved uh going forward.

1844
01:19:19,120 --> 01:19:21,440
There was an argument about crowding.

1845
01:19:21,440 --> 01:19:23,679
And so again, it's, you know,

1846
01:19:23,679 --> 01:19:24,960
unfortunately, one of the chief

1847
01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:27,199
opponents, the neighbor next door,

1848
01:19:27,199 --> 01:19:28,880
throughout this letter, every accusation

1849
01:19:28,880 --> 01:19:31,040
seems to be a confession.

1850
01:19:31,040 --> 01:19:34,080
This neighbor is three feet off of the

1851
01:19:34,080 --> 01:19:36,080
property line with their house. They're

1852
01:19:36,080 --> 01:19:37,760
about a foot off the property line with

1853
01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:40,400
their deck. We're going to honor at

1854
01:19:40,400 --> 01:19:43,679
least 10 feet, right? So, we're 3x on

1855
01:19:43,679 --> 01:19:46,080
that. Um, in addition, although the

1856
01:19:46,080 --> 01:19:47,760
superseding setbacks unfortunately do

1857
01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:49,760
not apply to this lot, they apply to

1858
01:19:49,760 --> 01:19:51,360
this neighborhood because there was some

1859
01:19:51,360 --> 01:19:53,280
wisdom in enacting these stricter

1860
01:19:53,280 --> 01:19:54,880
controls saying this is one of the

1861
01:19:54,880 --> 01:19:56,080
neighborhoods that well you're going to

1862
01:19:56,080 --> 01:19:57,600
zone at R20, but it doesn't make sense

1863
01:19:57,600 --> 01:19:59,600
to try and get these art these lots to

1864
01:19:59,600 --> 01:20:01,760
comply with, you know, 20 foot sideyard

1865
01:20:01,760 --> 01:20:03,280
setbacks and 30 foot front yard

1866
01:20:03,280 --> 01:20:05,600
setbacks. And then again, storm risks

1867
01:20:05,600 --> 01:20:07,280
and view of oceans are not protected

1868
01:20:07,280 --> 01:20:09,040
interests.

1869
01:20:09,040 --> 01:20:11,120
Um, there was also this argument that

1870
01:20:11,120 --> 01:20:13,040
well on the on the septic plan there was

1871
01:20:13,040 --> 01:20:15,760
a viable design that was conforming and

1872
01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:17,280
so the neighbors could just build that

1873
01:20:17,280 --> 01:20:19,679
conforming structure. Again, that was

1874
01:20:19,679 --> 01:20:22,640
incorrect because that septic plan also

1875
01:20:22,640 --> 01:20:24,719
incorrectly used the superseding

1876
01:20:24,719 --> 01:20:27,120
setbacks. That house that attorney

1877
01:20:27,120 --> 01:20:30,320
amotus says would be acceptable requires

1878
01:20:30,320 --> 01:20:33,120
the exact same three variances this

1879
01:20:33,120 --> 01:20:34,640
house does. It's a front yard variance,

1880
01:20:34,640 --> 01:20:36,159
a sideyard variance, and potentially a

1881
01:20:36,159 --> 01:20:39,280
lot area variance. So that house does

1882
01:20:39,280 --> 01:20:41,679
not conform. There is no viable house

1883
01:20:41,679 --> 01:20:43,520
that conforms.

1884
01:20:43,520 --> 01:20:46,560
Again, I um believe we've met the

1885
01:20:46,560 --> 01:20:48,000
standard of showing that the practical

1886
01:20:48,000 --> 01:20:50,080
difficulty would exist if you required

1887
01:20:50,080 --> 01:20:52,159
strict enforcement. Believe we've shown

1888
01:20:52,159 --> 01:20:54,480
that the benefit to the petitioner and

1889
01:20:54,480 --> 01:20:56,320
the benefit of the good of creating a

1890
01:20:56,320 --> 01:20:58,640
unit of housing outweigh the virtually

1891
01:20:58,640 --> 01:21:00,000
non-existent detriment to the

1892
01:21:00,000 --> 01:21:01,600
neighborhood by allowing a single family

1893
01:21:01,600 --> 01:21:04,080
house on an otherwise vacant lot. So I

1894
01:21:04,080 --> 01:21:05,920
ask that you would grant a front yard

1895
01:21:05,920 --> 01:21:07,760
variance, a sideyard variance, and if

1896
01:21:07,760 --> 01:21:09,280
you think you need one, we can take a

1897
01:21:09,280 --> 01:21:11,600
lot area variance. I leave that to the

1898
01:21:11,600 --> 01:21:16,640
discretion of the board and I thank you.

1899
01:21:16,640 --> 01:21:19,120
Any questions up front by the

1900
01:21:19,120 --> 01:21:22,000
members?

1901
01:21:22,000 --> 01:21:24,880
Okay, we'll uh open public hearing.

1902
01:21:24,880 --> 01:21:26,480
Anyone wishing to speak in favor of the

1903
01:21:26,480 --> 01:21:28,320
application,

1904
01:21:28,320 --> 01:21:30,400
please come forward. or if you're on

1905
01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:32,719
Zoom, raise your hand

1906
01:21:32,719 --> 01:21:39,750
on your device.

1907
01:21:39,760 --> 01:21:41,600
Seeing none, is there anyone wishing to

1908
01:21:41,600 --> 01:21:44,560
speak in opposition to the project?

1909
01:21:44,560 --> 01:21:47,120
Any opposition?

1910
01:21:47,120 --> 01:21:49,280
I remind everybody name and address

1911
01:21:49,280 --> 01:21:52,080
first, please, and then

1912
01:21:52,080 --> 01:21:57,910
say what you like to say.

1913
01:21:57,920 --> 01:21:59,360
» Good evening, members of the board. My

1914
01:21:59,360 --> 01:22:01,040
name is Nicholas Amblyotus. I'm an

1915
01:22:01,040 --> 01:22:04,320
attorney practicing law at 99 Rosewood

1916
01:22:04,320 --> 01:22:06,800
Drive in Danas, Massachusetts. I'm here

1917
01:22:06,800 --> 01:22:09,920
on behalf of the director of butter,

1918
01:22:09,920 --> 01:22:12,159
Margaret Bonakos, who's also here to my

1919
01:22:12,159 --> 01:22:13,040
right.

1920
01:22:13,040 --> 01:22:15,600
>> Uh Nicholas on Zoom, you got to uh you

1921
01:22:15,600 --> 01:22:16,800
might be better if you take that

1922
01:22:16,800 --> 01:22:18,639
microphone and put it right just hold it

1923
01:22:18,639 --> 01:22:20,080
under your chin. You know, maybe even

1924
01:22:20,080 --> 01:22:22,639
just lay it right up on under your chin.

1925
01:22:22,639 --> 01:22:23,360
>> Okay.

1926
01:22:23,360 --> 01:22:24,480
>> Thank you.

1927
01:22:24,480 --> 01:22:26,560
>> So, I'm Nick Ambbleotus. I'm an attorney

1928
01:22:26,560 --> 01:22:29,120
practicing law in 99 Rosewood, Danver,

1929
01:22:29,120 --> 01:22:32,080
Massachusetts. I'm here with the

1930
01:22:32,080 --> 01:22:34,000
director butter representing the

1931
01:22:34,000 --> 01:22:36,719
director butter Margaret Banakos who

1932
01:22:36,719 --> 01:22:39,360
lives at 27 Flume Road and she is here

1933
01:22:39,360 --> 01:22:44,960
to my right. Um, I've listened to the

1934
01:22:44,960 --> 01:22:47,920
presentation and reviewed the materials

1935
01:22:47,920 --> 01:22:52,480
and um, the neighborhood is pretty

1936
01:22:52,480 --> 01:22:54,080
Margaret Banakos and the rest of the

1937
01:22:54,080 --> 01:22:56,800
neighbors are pretty much united um,

1938
01:22:56,800 --> 01:23:00,239
against this project. Um

1939
01:23:00,239 --> 01:23:03,760
the reasons that we are against this

1940
01:23:03,760 --> 01:23:06,800
project one I do believe that this

1941
01:23:06,800 --> 01:23:09,440
project this this um particular project

1942
01:23:09,440 --> 01:23:12,560
does not uh ask for all the requested

1943
01:23:12,560 --> 01:23:14,400
relief. I do not believe it complies

1944
01:23:14,400 --> 01:23:17,280
with the lot width area. Lot width

1945
01:23:17,280 --> 01:23:20,000
according to my reading of the lost to

1946
01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:23,040
zoning ordinance is the defined as the

1947
01:23:23,040 --> 01:23:24,639
horizontal distance between the side

1948
01:23:24,639 --> 01:23:26,560
property lines of a lot measured

1949
01:23:26,560 --> 01:23:28,639
parallel to the front property line at

1950
01:23:28,639 --> 01:23:30,239
that side of the principal building

1951
01:23:30,239 --> 01:23:32,560
closest to the property line. I don't

1952
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:38,239
see anywhere in the petition that shows

1953
01:23:38,239 --> 01:23:42,480
uh where where that where the um how

1954
01:23:42,480 --> 01:23:45,600
that uh dimension is met for the lot

1955
01:23:45,600 --> 01:23:49,120
with and I find it to be a practical

1956
01:23:49,120 --> 01:23:50,880
impossibility because there's only one

1957
01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:53,040
side setback. Therefore, I don't think

1958
01:23:53,040 --> 01:23:55,040
it complies with u the lot with

1959
01:23:55,040 --> 01:23:57,040
requirement in that the petitioner

1960
01:23:57,040 --> 01:23:59,760
should be seeking that relief. Secondly,

1961
01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:01,360
I'd like to point out that the lot at

1962
01:24:01,360 --> 01:24:04,639
for the reasons set forth in the um

1963
01:24:04,639 --> 01:24:06,880
applicants uh application, it's already

1964
01:24:06,880 --> 01:24:08,159
buildable. It's a pre-existing

1965
01:24:08,159 --> 01:24:10,400
non-conforming lot. They just have to

1966
01:24:10,400 --> 01:24:13,840
abide by the current setbacks uh which

1967
01:24:13,840 --> 01:24:16,480
are 30 ft for frontage and 20 ft for

1968
01:24:16,480 --> 01:24:19,199
side yards. The the applicant can build

1969
01:24:19,199 --> 01:24:22,080
a home. He can build a smaller home. Um

1970
01:24:22,080 --> 01:24:26,080
the

1971
01:24:26,080 --> 01:24:29,280
zoning changes that have been instituted

1972
01:24:29,280 --> 01:24:31,920
over the summer have lessened the

1973
01:24:31,920 --> 01:24:35,520
standard for for granting variances and

1974
01:24:35,520 --> 01:24:37,679
we acknowledge that and it's lessened

1975
01:24:37,679 --> 01:24:39,840
the standard from substantial hardship

1976
01:24:39,840 --> 01:24:42,960
to pra practical difficulty.

1977
01:24:42,960 --> 01:24:46,800
That doesn't mean that a petitioner can

1978
01:24:46,800 --> 01:24:48,960
go and build whatever they want and

1979
01:24:48,960 --> 01:24:51,360
maximize the the building footprint

1980
01:24:51,360 --> 01:24:54,400
without um regard to the to the

1981
01:24:54,400 --> 01:24:57,040
considering the the public welfare and

1982
01:24:57,040 --> 01:25:02,000
the and the u um its neighbors and in

1983
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:03,840
and how that project fits in with the

1984
01:25:03,840 --> 01:25:06,960
neighborhood. It it's it's

1985
01:25:06,960 --> 01:25:08,719
designed to create more single family

1986
01:25:08,719 --> 01:25:12,000
housing. the um the new the new statute

1987
01:25:12,000 --> 01:25:15,280
um that by lessening the standard from

1988
01:25:15,280 --> 01:25:17,040
substantial hardship to practical

1989
01:25:17,040 --> 01:25:19,920
difficulty. It's not designed to allow

1990
01:25:19,920 --> 01:25:22,239
people to build McMansions on postage

1991
01:25:22,239 --> 01:25:25,440
stamp lots with ocean view um to to

1992
01:25:25,440 --> 01:25:28,400
maximize their um their ocean views.

1993
01:25:28,400 --> 01:25:32,800
this project is is he's creating to pres

1994
01:25:32,800 --> 01:25:36,239
um he's designing a a oddly shaped home

1995
01:25:36,239 --> 01:25:40,159
that fans out like a trapezoid and he's

1996
01:25:40,159 --> 01:25:43,679
and it's going 10 it's not just a 10-ft

1997
01:25:43,679 --> 01:25:49,040
sideback uh 10-ft um sideyard setback

1998
01:25:49,040 --> 01:25:52,159
relief in one spot. He's proposing a

1999
01:25:52,159 --> 01:25:54,639
10-ft sideyard

2000
01:25:54,639 --> 01:25:56,960
setback relief the entire length of the

2001
01:25:56,960 --> 01:25:59,440
home. and it's like fanning out like a

2002
01:25:59,440 --> 01:26:02,000
trapezoid and it's without any regard to

2003
01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:03,679
the to the rest of the neighborhood and

2004
01:26:03,679 --> 01:26:06,880
how it how it fits in there. Um, and

2005
01:26:06,880 --> 01:26:10,239
he's also expanding asking for the

2006
01:26:10,239 --> 01:26:11,840
relief on the frontage on the curved

2007
01:26:11,840 --> 01:26:14,000
side of Flume Road where he has that

2008
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:16,719
breakfast nook and in that area sticking

2009
01:26:16,719 --> 01:26:21,120
out and he's and he's and and and

2010
01:26:21,120 --> 01:26:23,520
it's it's much too big for the lot. And

2011
01:26:23,520 --> 01:26:26,719
that's not what the the um the zoning

2012
01:26:26,719 --> 01:26:28,639
change was designed for to to allow

2013
01:26:28,639 --> 01:26:31,840
people to to build these excessively

2014
01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:34,080
large homes. It was designed to create

2015
01:26:34,080 --> 01:26:38,400
more single family housing. Now the the

2016
01:26:38,400 --> 01:26:41,120
it was brought up at the last meeting

2017
01:26:41,120 --> 01:26:43,199
that you know the the the petition and

2018
01:26:43,199 --> 01:26:45,840
did get approval for a septic design

2019
01:26:45,840 --> 01:26:50,000
plan for for a four fourbedroom house on

2020
01:26:50,000 --> 01:26:53,280
a and he had and he

2021
01:26:53,280 --> 01:26:56,639
um proposed a dwelling footprint that

2022
01:26:56,639 --> 01:27:01,600
was 28x 38 with a 22x 22 ft garage and I

2023
01:27:01,600 --> 01:27:05,520
attached that plan I I attached the plan

2024
01:27:05,520 --> 01:27:08,800
um two versions of the plan. The actual

2025
01:27:08,800 --> 01:27:10,480
tire plan, which is hard to read because

2026
01:27:10,480 --> 01:27:12,320
it's so small, and then I blew it up so

2027
01:27:12,320 --> 01:27:15,920
you could see the the setbacks. And

2028
01:27:15,920 --> 01:27:18,639
that, as the petitioner correctly notes,

2029
01:27:18,639 --> 01:27:21,679
is asking for the same sideback relief

2030
01:27:21,679 --> 01:27:25,280
of 10 ft, but it's only in one corner of

2031
01:27:25,280 --> 01:27:27,760
the of the lot where the garage is. And

2032
01:27:27,760 --> 01:27:31,360
then it's the the the the the um the

2033
01:27:31,360 --> 01:27:34,719
footprint of the home is appropriately

2034
01:27:34,719 --> 01:27:37,520
um configured on the lot. So it's angled

2035
01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:41,520
and it and it does open up um some more

2036
01:27:41,520 --> 01:27:44,560
area in between

2037
01:27:44,560 --> 01:27:47,360
27 Flume Road and 29 Flume Road. So

2038
01:27:47,360 --> 01:27:51,520
there's not this 25 to 30 foot wall

2039
01:27:51,520 --> 01:27:55,120
um on on her side of the of the lot as

2040
01:27:55,120 --> 01:27:58,239
proposed by by the application. It's a

2041
01:27:58,239 --> 01:28:05,840
much more reasonably designed home and it's not a a small home. It's by my

2042
01:28:05,840 --> 01:28:09,600
calculation, it's a 2600 ft home. Um and

2043
01:28:09,600 --> 01:28:14,159
it and it's much more appropriate for this lot and it's and it's much more

2044
01:28:14,159 --> 01:28:17,199
appropriate for the neighborhood. And I

2045
01:28:17,199 --> 01:28:19,920
think if the board is considering

2046
01:28:19,920 --> 01:28:21,760
granting relief because of this

2047
01:28:21,760 --> 01:28:23,840
practical difficulty standard, it

2048
01:28:23,840 --> 01:28:27,840
doesn't have to grant the petitioner

2049
01:28:27,840 --> 01:28:31,280
the relief. It it's it seeks to build an

2050
01:28:31,280 --> 01:28:34,719
overly excessive home u sized home on on

2051
01:28:34,719 --> 01:28:39,520
this small lot. It should it should ask

2052
01:28:39,520 --> 01:28:41,920
the the petitioner to build something

2053
01:28:41,920 --> 01:28:44,719
that's more in line with with the rest

2054
01:28:44,719 --> 01:28:55,510
of the neighborhood in that that in in blends in with the neighborhood much better. Um

2055
01:28:55,520 --> 01:28:56,719
is there anything you'd like to add

2056
01:28:56,719 --> 01:28:58,080
Margaret?

2057
01:28:58,080 --> 01:29:00,639
>> Yeah. Margaret Bakus.

2058
01:29:00,639 --> 01:29:02,719
>> Hi, I'm Margaret Bakus. I've been a

2059
01:29:02,719 --> 01:29:06,480
Gloucester resident for over 50 years.

2060
01:29:06,480 --> 01:29:08,480
Um, the direct to Butter.

2061
01:29:08,480 --> 01:29:10,080
>> What's your address, ma'am?

2062
01:29:10,080 --> 01:29:13,600
>> 27 Flume Road. The Direct to Butter.

2063
01:29:13,600 --> 01:29:15,840
>> Um, it's been our family home for over

2064
01:29:15,840 --> 01:29:16,880
50 years.

2065
01:29:16,880 --> 01:29:18,480
>> Can you bring that mic a little closer,

2066
01:29:18,480 --> 01:29:19,760
ma'am? Thank you. Sure.

2067
01:29:19,760 --> 01:29:22,239
>> So, said it's been our family home for

2068
01:29:22,239 --> 01:29:25,520
over 50 years. I've been a widow for 18

2069
01:29:25,520 --> 01:29:27,920
years. I've continued to work to pay off

2070
01:29:27,920 --> 01:29:30,400
this family home, and I only have a few

2071
01:29:30,400 --> 01:29:32,480
payments left.

2072
01:29:32,480 --> 01:29:34,639
Um,

2073
01:29:34,639 --> 01:29:36,239
however,

2074
01:29:36,239 --> 01:29:40,719
if this oversized plan goes through,

2075
01:29:40,719 --> 01:29:44,000
I'll have this 30-foot wall built in

2076
01:29:44,000 --> 01:29:46,239
front of me,

2077
01:29:46,239 --> 01:29:48,320
which will take a great portion of the

2078
01:29:48,320 --> 01:29:54,070
view and devalue the property.

2079
01:29:54,080 --> 01:29:57,830
Um,

2080
01:29:57,840 --> 01:29:59,760
and several of those neighbors around

2081
01:29:59,760 --> 01:30:03,520
me. I'm not just speaking for myself.

2082
01:30:03,520 --> 01:30:05,199
It's not like there aren't some other

2083
01:30:05,199 --> 01:30:08,800
choices here.

2084
01:30:08,800 --> 01:30:10,800
Our neighborhood is opposed to the

2085
01:30:10,800 --> 01:30:14,239
oversized footprint of this home. We all

2086
01:30:14,239 --> 01:30:17,040
just want something more reasonable.

2087
01:30:17,040 --> 01:30:19,120
We're not opposed to a home being built

2088
01:30:19,120 --> 01:30:20,880
here.

2089
01:30:20,880 --> 01:30:23,760
I think with something more reasonable,

2090
01:30:23,760 --> 01:30:27,430
everybody wins.

2091
01:30:27,440 --> 01:30:29,520
It just doesn't seem right that Mr.

2092
01:30:29,520 --> 01:30:33,760
Gikis can try to take so much from us,

2093
01:30:33,760 --> 01:30:36,320
our views, our property value to get the

2094
01:30:36,320 --> 01:30:39,199
large footprint he wants. It's a

2095
01:30:39,199 --> 01:30:42,560
beautiful lot with incredible views.

2096
01:30:42,560 --> 01:30:44,639
Again, I just hope they can do something

2097
01:30:44,639 --> 01:30:46,480
more reasonable.

2098
01:30:46,480 --> 01:31:01,030
Thank you.

2099
01:31:01,040 --> 01:31:02,800
Anyone else wishing to speak in

2100
01:31:02,800 --> 01:31:06,070
opposition?

2101
01:31:06,080 --> 01:31:10,320
Yes, I'm Sue Herszika. I live at 24

2102
01:31:10,320 --> 01:31:13,120
Flume Road, which is a right directly

2103
01:31:13,120 --> 01:31:16,800
across the street. Uh

2104
01:31:16,800 --> 01:31:19,600
Margaret and myself

2105
01:31:19,600 --> 01:31:23,600
and all of the nearby neighbors

2106
01:31:23,600 --> 01:31:28,239
um have signed a letter to you stating

2107
01:31:28,239 --> 01:31:30,560
that we oppose

2108
01:31:30,560 --> 01:31:32,800
uh this plan.

2109
01:31:32,800 --> 01:31:37,280
And as Margaret um very nicely said,

2110
01:31:37,280 --> 01:31:39,840
it's not that we oppose having a

2111
01:31:39,840 --> 01:31:42,880
building a h a home built there. We

2112
01:31:42,880 --> 01:31:46,000
understand that it's a buildable lot. We

2113
01:31:46,000 --> 01:31:48,080
are just

2114
01:31:48,080 --> 01:31:52,480
opposed to the scale of this lot of this

2115
01:31:52,480 --> 01:31:54,080
building.

2116
01:31:54,080 --> 01:31:57,280
Um I'm pleased to see that they came

2117
01:31:57,280 --> 01:31:59,920
into compliance with the height

2118
01:31:59,920 --> 01:32:03,040
restriction. They originally wanted 35

2119
01:32:03,040 --> 01:32:06,400
ft and now they're down to 30. So that

2120
01:32:06,400 --> 01:32:08,719
was a good uh that was a nice

2121
01:32:08,719 --> 01:32:10,480
accommodation.

2122
01:32:10,480 --> 01:32:16,560
Um, and I just hope that

2123
01:32:16,560 --> 01:32:22,400
the geekases and the board realize that

2124
01:32:22,400 --> 01:32:26,400
building a McMansion on this lot

2125
01:32:26,400 --> 01:32:29,360
is unreasonable.

2126
01:32:29,360 --> 01:32:32,080
Um, [clears throat] again, the new

2127
01:32:32,080 --> 01:32:34,080
there's been a lot said about the new

2128
01:32:34,080 --> 01:32:39,199
law. The new law was not designed to

2129
01:32:39,199 --> 01:32:43,360
allow someone to build any size home

2130
01:32:43,360 --> 01:32:46,480
that they wanted on any lot. It was

2131
01:32:46,480 --> 01:32:49,199
really designed to

2132
01:32:49,199 --> 01:32:51,840
give opportunities to increase housing

2133
01:32:51,840 --> 01:32:56,639
units, whether it be ADU units or other

2134
01:32:56,639 --> 01:33:01,600
splitting of property to allow for more

2135
01:33:01,600 --> 01:33:05,430
housing for people.

2136
01:33:05,440 --> 01:33:08,080
So I think that's a misrepresentation

2137
01:33:08,080 --> 01:33:13,600
when folks refer to

2138
01:33:13,600 --> 01:33:17,360
the new law is giving

2139
01:33:17,360 --> 01:33:20,800
uh handing over complete permission to

2140
01:33:20,800 --> 01:33:24,239
do what you want.

2141
01:33:24,239 --> 01:33:28,239
The lawyer re representing the geekases

2142
01:33:28,239 --> 01:33:31,760
mentioned something about how they paid

2143
01:33:31,760 --> 01:33:37,040
a handsome sum for this property as if

2144
01:33:37,040 --> 01:33:41,040
that entitles them to build a large

2145
01:33:41,040 --> 01:33:42,880
home.

2146
01:33:42,880 --> 01:33:47,280
He also cited uh a

2147
01:33:47,280 --> 01:33:49,040
ruling

2148
01:33:49,040 --> 01:33:52,239
that talked about

2149
01:33:52,239 --> 01:33:54,239
whether or not

2150
01:33:54,239 --> 01:33:58,560
another person's home would be devalued.

2151
01:33:58,560 --> 01:34:01,840
My understanding is that

2152
01:34:01,840 --> 01:34:09,600
um the person people can't I'm not sure how

2153
01:34:09,600 --> 01:34:14,470
to say this but that

2154
01:34:14,480 --> 01:34:16,960
I don't think that the what they paid

2155
01:34:16,960 --> 01:34:18,960
for that lot

2156
01:34:18,960 --> 01:34:23,920
is a factor in this argument at all.

2157
01:34:23,920 --> 01:34:26,080
They they knew what they bought. They

2158
01:34:26,080 --> 01:34:27,600
knew what they paid for. They could have

2159
01:34:27,600 --> 01:34:29,760
offered less. They could have offered

2160
01:34:29,760 --> 01:34:32,480
more. But they offered and got the lot

2161
01:34:32,480 --> 01:34:35,440
at a certain price. That price does not

2162
01:34:35,440 --> 01:34:40,790
entitle them to do anything they want.

2163
01:34:40,800 --> 01:34:42,480
I

2164
01:34:42,480 --> 01:34:46,560
so I I wish that we could come to a

2165
01:34:46,560 --> 01:34:49,360
reasonable compromise

2166
01:34:49,360 --> 01:34:52,719
so that as Margaret said, everyone would

2167
01:34:52,719 --> 01:34:55,440
win. uh that people would be allowed to

2168
01:34:55,440 --> 01:34:58,800
have build a lovely home with a nice

2169
01:34:58,800 --> 01:35:00,560
view.

2170
01:35:00,560 --> 01:35:04,560
Um [clears throat] and

2171
01:35:04,560 --> 01:35:06,639
you know that the neighbors could feel

2172
01:35:06,639 --> 01:35:08,400
comfortable

2173
01:35:08,400 --> 01:35:12,960
with a plan that is more reasonable. If

2174
01:35:12,960 --> 01:35:15,920
they're looking for a 10- ft

2175
01:35:15,920 --> 01:35:17,520
um

2176
01:35:17,520 --> 01:35:20,239
exception on one side and a 17 ft

2177
01:35:20,239 --> 01:35:23,120
exception on the other, you're talking

2178
01:35:23,120 --> 01:35:26,639
about 27 ft.

2179
01:35:26,639 --> 01:35:30,800
That's pretty much that whole

2180
01:35:30,800 --> 01:35:32,719
It wouldn't be the whole bump out that

2181
01:35:32,719 --> 01:35:36,159
they're looking for on the side for the

2182
01:35:36,159 --> 01:35:40,400
breakfast nook and etc. above, but we're

2183
01:35:40,400 --> 01:35:44,719
talking like a huge a huge space.

2184
01:35:44,719 --> 01:35:47,280
So, I noticed that in the application,

2185
01:35:47,280 --> 01:35:48,960
and maybe this isn't something that's

2186
01:35:48,960 --> 01:35:52,320
required with the zoning, um, but

2187
01:35:52,320 --> 01:35:54,000
they've never mentioned how many square

2188
01:35:54,000 --> 01:35:57,920
ft this house is, and by our estimates,

2189
01:35:57,920 --> 01:36:01,199
it's got to be like over 3,000 square ft

2190
01:36:01,199 --> 01:36:04,560
home. Um, I'm not exactly sure because I

2191
01:36:04,560 --> 01:36:05,840
didn't really know how to figure that

2192
01:36:05,840 --> 01:36:13,030
out, but um, it's huge.

2193
01:36:13,040 --> 01:36:15,120
There's probably a lot more that I could

2194
01:36:15,120 --> 01:36:17,760
say, but it may be repeating some of

2195
01:36:17,760 --> 01:36:21,360
what other people have already said. So,

2196
01:36:21,360 --> 01:36:25,280
I don't think I need to say um more

2197
01:36:25,280 --> 01:36:27,920
about that, but

2198
01:36:27,920 --> 01:36:30,960
um I do believe it will devalue

2199
01:36:30,960 --> 01:36:33,120
Margaret's home and mine built at this

2200
01:36:33,120 --> 01:36:34,800
scale.

2201
01:36:34,800 --> 01:36:37,679
And I will definitely take that into

2202
01:36:37,679 --> 01:36:39,440
consideration

2203
01:36:39,440 --> 01:36:41,920
uh in regards to asking my taxes to be

2204
01:36:41,920 --> 01:36:44,000
lowered, you know, if my value of my

2205
01:36:44,000 --> 01:36:47,600
property is less. So anyway, there's a

2206
01:36:47,600 --> 01:36:49,679
lot of complications here and I just

2207
01:36:49,679 --> 01:36:52,800
hope that, you know, we can come up with

2208
01:36:52,800 --> 01:36:55,840
something that's acceptable and that we

2209
01:36:55,840 --> 01:36:58,560
can all get along. All right. Thank you

2210
01:36:58,560 --> 01:37:00,239
very much for your time.

2211
01:37:00,239 --> 01:37:02,159
>> Thank you.

2212
01:37:02,159 --> 01:37:03,679
>> Anyone else wishing to speak in

2213
01:37:03,679 --> 01:37:09,350
opposition?

2214
01:37:09,360 --> 01:37:43,430
One hand up.

2215
01:37:43,440 --> 01:37:46,880
a dairy. There you are. You're muted. If

2216
01:37:46,880 --> 01:37:50,229
you can unmute.

2217
01:37:50,239 --> 01:37:51,760
» How's that?

2218
01:37:51,760 --> 01:37:53,119
>> There you go.

2219
01:37:53,119 --> 01:37:57,199
>> Okay. Hi, I'm Ann Sedary. I live at 26A

2220
01:37:57,199 --> 01:38:00,480
Flume Road, Magnolia. [clears throat]

2221
01:38:00,480 --> 01:38:03,119
and thank you for the opportunity for

2222
01:38:03,119 --> 01:38:07,679
all of us to express our feelings about

2223
01:38:07,679 --> 01:38:12,159
this potential home being built. I am so

2224
01:38:12,159 --> 01:38:15,119
in agreement with the fact that he

2225
01:38:15,119 --> 01:38:18,400
bought the lot and absolutely should

2226
01:38:18,400 --> 01:38:20,400
build a house,

2227
01:38:20,400 --> 01:38:25,760
but that lot is too small for a 3,000

2228
01:38:25,760 --> 01:38:28,719
some odd square foot home

2229
01:38:28,719 --> 01:38:31,679
and every I won't go over what has

2230
01:38:31,679 --> 01:38:35,440
already been said, but I really believe

2231
01:38:35,440 --> 01:38:39,760
that there is a um problem there will be

2232
01:38:39,760 --> 01:38:45,040
a problem with foot traffic and um cars

2233
01:38:45,040 --> 01:38:49,360
and and blinders being put on people

2234
01:38:49,360 --> 01:38:52,800
driving by because

2235
01:38:52,800 --> 01:38:56,239
it's leaving very little room to be able

2236
01:38:56,239 --> 01:39:00,800
to see around the corner. And we noticed

2237
01:39:00,800 --> 01:39:04,239
this week, I noticed actually when there

2238
01:39:04,239 --> 01:39:06,719
was some trees being taken down, you you

2239
01:39:06,719 --> 01:39:09,520
couldn't get through the road. And many

2240
01:39:09,520 --> 01:39:12,480
times when I come down Lynon,

2241
01:39:12,480 --> 01:39:15,679
as I did today, I had to pull over and

2242
01:39:15,679 --> 01:39:18,400
wait for someone to pass me by till they

2243
01:39:18,400 --> 01:39:21,199
get to the stop sign. And then all I

2244
01:39:21,199 --> 01:39:24,000
thought was, what are they going to see?

2245
01:39:24,000 --> 01:39:26,400
They're not going to be able to see the

2246
01:39:26,400 --> 01:39:29,760
right or the left. So,

2247
01:39:29,760 --> 01:39:34,880
my concern is is is number one, it's too

2248
01:39:34,880 --> 01:39:38,239
big a house for that lot. And if he

2249
01:39:38,239 --> 01:39:40,080
didn't or the people that bought it

2250
01:39:40,080 --> 01:39:42,639
didn't know that when they bought it, I

2251
01:39:42,639 --> 01:39:45,520
feel bad for them. But a lot of people

2252
01:39:45,520 --> 01:39:48,560
buy homes and don't realize exactly what

2253
01:39:48,560 --> 01:39:50,400
they're getting or think they can do

2254
01:39:50,400 --> 01:39:53,280
something and then they disco discover

2255
01:39:53,280 --> 01:39:56,560
they can't. So in this case, the

2256
01:39:56,560 --> 01:40:00,080
solution is truly to be respectful to

2257
01:40:00,080 --> 01:40:04,159
the neighbors, to the land, to the

2258
01:40:04,159 --> 01:40:07,040
city of Magnol Town of Magnolia

2259
01:40:07,040 --> 01:40:10,639
and and build something beautiful but

2260
01:40:10,639 --> 01:40:13,440
appropriate in size.

2261
01:40:13,440 --> 01:40:17,199
So and none of us would object.

2262
01:40:17,199 --> 01:40:21,280
So um that's my feeling and thank you so

2263
01:40:21,280 --> 01:40:24,560
much for letting me say it.

2264
01:40:24,560 --> 01:40:26,880
Thank you.

2265
01:40:26,880 --> 01:40:32,709
Anyone else?

2266
01:40:32,719 --> 01:40:34,960
Seeing none,

2267
01:40:34,960 --> 01:40:37,360
we'll close public testimony. It' be

2268
01:40:37,360 --> 01:40:39,199
rebuttal

2269
01:40:39,199 --> 01:40:44,790
time.

2270
01:40:44,800 --> 01:41:03,669
» Going to share my screen once more.

2271
01:41:03,679 --> 01:41:06,159
So, I think it's um important at the

2272
01:41:06,159 --> 01:41:07,760
beginning of my rebuttal to remind the

2273
01:41:07,760 --> 01:41:11,280
board that what I just heard, the

2274
01:41:11,280 --> 01:41:15,280
complaints were about size, about view,

2275
01:41:15,280 --> 01:41:17,119
and about value. And as I've explained

2276
01:41:17,119 --> 01:41:20,560
previously, the law states, our own

2277
01:41:20,560 --> 01:41:22,080
local law states that view is not

2278
01:41:22,080 --> 01:41:23,920
protected interest. So when you go to

2279
01:41:23,920 --> 01:41:25,760
weigh this test, people complain about

2280
01:41:25,760 --> 01:41:28,239
view does not get put on the scale.

2281
01:41:28,239 --> 01:41:30,480
Reduction in value also is not protected

2282
01:41:30,480 --> 01:41:31,679
interest. So that doesn't go on the

2283
01:41:31,679 --> 01:41:33,840
scale either. We can talk about sizing

2284
01:41:33,840 --> 01:41:35,440
to the degree that that somehow affects

2285
01:41:35,440 --> 01:41:38,480
the public welfare, etc. Um, but I want

2286
01:41:38,480 --> 01:41:41,520
to just point out

2287
01:41:41,520 --> 01:41:45,520
that 27 Flume Road, same size lot,

2288
01:41:45,520 --> 01:41:48,560
10,000 square ft, inadequate frontage.

2289
01:41:48,560 --> 01:41:50,000
Actually, more nonconformities. We at

2290
01:41:50,000 --> 01:41:51,600
least have adequate frontage. That one

2291
01:41:51,600 --> 01:41:53,760
does not. That encroaches into the front

2292
01:41:53,760 --> 01:41:55,679
and left side yard setback. It's three

2293
01:41:55,679 --> 01:41:57,920
times closer to the shared property line

2294
01:41:57,920 --> 01:42:00,480
than we're proposing. It has the same

2295
01:42:00,480 --> 01:42:02,239
technical distance. like the front of

2296
01:42:02,239 --> 01:42:04,000
their house is the same technical

2297
01:42:04,000 --> 01:42:09,280
distance um from the from the actual

2298
01:42:09,280 --> 01:42:11,040
layout. Sorry. The front of the house is

2299
01:42:11,040 --> 01:42:12,400
the same practical distance from the

2300
01:42:12,400 --> 01:42:16,080
paved portion of the road um or for I'm

2301
01:42:16,080 --> 01:42:17,520
stumbling over my words here. I want to

2302
01:42:17,520 --> 01:42:19,119
get this right. Is the same technical

2303
01:42:19,119 --> 01:42:20,719
distance from the layout of Flume Road,

2304
01:42:20,719 --> 01:42:22,000
but it's closer to the actual pavement

2305
01:42:22,000 --> 01:42:25,360
than ours would be. It's also bigger. 27

2306
01:42:25,360 --> 01:42:28,400
according to the city's records is 2589

2307
01:42:28,400 --> 01:42:31,119
square ft including decks. proposed

2308
01:42:31,119 --> 01:42:34,880
house on 209 would be 2,450 square feet

2309
01:42:34,880 --> 01:42:36,320
including decks. So, it's actually a

2310
01:42:36,320 --> 01:42:38,960
smaller house than is at 27 despite

2311
01:42:38,960 --> 01:42:42,080
being on the same size lot. Um, again,

2312
01:42:42,080 --> 01:42:44,320
this is the the superimposition.

2313
01:42:44,320 --> 01:42:45,600
You can even see

2314
01:42:45,600 --> 01:42:47,199
>> Joel, could you just repeat that for me?

2315
01:42:47,199 --> 01:42:50,480
You said the size of this proposed house

2316
01:42:50,480 --> 01:42:51,679
is what?

2317
01:42:51,679 --> 01:42:53,760
>> 20. The proposed house including Dex is

2318
01:42:53,760 --> 01:42:58,320
2,450 ft. We have to stay under 25% of

2319
01:42:58,320 --> 01:43:00,880
10,000 square ft. The neighbor's house

2320
01:43:00,880 --> 01:43:03,760
exceeds the maximum lot coverage by 89

2321
01:43:03,760 --> 01:43:07,600
square feet is the 2589 including decks.

2322
01:43:07,600 --> 01:43:09,679
And when you superimpose the footprint,

2323
01:43:09,679 --> 01:43:12,159
you can even see that this house is

2324
01:43:12,159 --> 01:43:15,520
smaller than um 27. It's actually also

2325
01:43:15,520 --> 01:43:18,159
smaller, quite smaller than um 211

2326
01:43:18,159 --> 01:43:19,520
Hesperess, which is right down here.

2327
01:43:19,520 --> 01:43:22,080
That one is 2,999

2328
01:43:22,080 --> 01:43:25,040
square ft of uh footprint including

2329
01:43:25,040 --> 01:43:28,880
decks on a 10,000t lot. Same size lot.

2330
01:43:28,880 --> 01:43:31,760
um 500 square feet bigger in the same

2331
01:43:31,760 --> 01:43:32,239
neighborhood.

2332
01:43:32,239 --> 01:43:34,000
>> Jo, which which house that

2333
01:43:34,000 --> 01:43:36,800
>> that would be that would be 211, which

2334
01:43:36,800 --> 01:43:38,639
is down here. But unfortunately, if I go

2335
01:43:38,639 --> 01:43:42,800
back way back to

2336
01:43:42,800 --> 01:43:46,880
this one, you can see this house here is

2337
01:43:46,880 --> 01:43:49,199
just a scoch under 3,000 square foot

2338
01:43:49,199 --> 01:43:52,400
with a footprint on the same 10,000 foot

2339
01:43:52,400 --> 01:43:56,400
lot um that the rest of these have. So

2340
01:43:56,400 --> 01:43:57,119
this is, you know,

2341
01:43:57,119 --> 01:43:59,760
>> do you happen to know um the square

2342
01:43:59,760 --> 01:44:02,800
footage proposed relative to the

2343
01:44:02,800 --> 01:44:05,280
neighborhood average square footage?

2344
01:44:05,280 --> 01:44:07,440
>> No, I I don't have the full

2345
01:44:07,440 --> 01:44:08,800
neighborhood. I tried to grab the ones

2346
01:44:08,800 --> 01:44:12,080
that were um closest. I thought 27 was

2347
01:44:12,080 --> 01:44:14,880
particularly of interest seeing the, you

2348
01:44:14,880 --> 01:44:17,199
know, the characterization of this as a

2349
01:44:17,199 --> 01:44:19,199
McMansion despite being smaller than her

2350
01:44:19,199 --> 01:44:21,600
own family house. Um it's also

2351
01:44:21,600 --> 01:44:23,840
interesting seeing as this house has

2352
01:44:23,840 --> 01:44:27,520
been uh in the family for over 50 years.

2353
01:44:27,520 --> 01:44:32,960
That means um shortly after it was built

2354
01:44:32,960 --> 01:44:35,920
uh it went about 20 years later in 1987

2355
01:44:35,920 --> 01:44:38,719
her family took to the ZBA to get a

2356
01:44:38,719 --> 01:44:41,199
front yard and a sideyard variance

2357
01:44:41,199 --> 01:44:42,880
because they wanted to expand their

2358
01:44:42,880 --> 01:44:45,360
footprint to the current almost 2600 ft

2359
01:44:45,360 --> 01:44:48,560
it is and get within about 3 ft of the

2360
01:44:48,560 --> 01:44:50,480
property line. and this board or your

2361
01:44:50,480 --> 01:44:52,320
predecessors granted a front yard

2362
01:44:52,320 --> 01:44:54,639
variance and a sideyard variance so they

2363
01:44:54,639 --> 01:44:55,840
could expand the footprint of the house

2364
01:44:55,840 --> 01:44:58,159
to over 200 square feet and get within

2365
01:44:58,159 --> 01:44:59,920
three feet of this shared line that all

2366
01:44:59,920 --> 01:45:03,199
of a sudden 10 ft is too close and 2450

2367
01:45:03,199 --> 01:45:06,159
is too much.

2368
01:45:06,159 --> 01:45:08,159
Um,

2369
01:45:08,159 --> 01:45:10,320
and this is again and actually a more

2370
01:45:10,320 --> 01:45:11,760
accurate survey shows that there was

2371
01:45:11,760 --> 01:45:15,040
actually an error here and the deck per

2372
01:45:15,040 --> 01:45:17,199
that relief was only supposed to be the

2373
01:45:17,199 --> 01:45:19,360
closest point. It's like 3 3.2 two feet,

2374
01:45:19,360 --> 01:45:20,880
something like that. The deck is

2375
01:45:20,880 --> 01:45:22,960
basically a foot off the line, and the

2376
01:45:22,960 --> 01:45:27,440
house itself is 3 feet.

2377
01:45:27,440 --> 01:45:29,600
Um, and again, this is a shot of, you

2378
01:45:29,600 --> 01:45:31,119
know, this is the house that the

2379
01:45:31,119 --> 01:45:32,480
neighbor is complaining about,

2380
01:45:32,480 --> 01:45:34,560
McMansions being built in this

2381
01:45:34,560 --> 01:45:36,400
neighborhood and how inappropriate a

2382
01:45:36,400 --> 01:45:40,000
24,000 uh, sorry, 20 2,450T house would

2383
01:45:40,000 --> 01:45:42,880
be. Um, you can also see, talk about

2384
01:45:42,880 --> 01:45:44,719
proximity, this is 27. You can see her

2385
01:45:44,719 --> 01:45:46,960
entire fence is over the property line

2386
01:45:46,960 --> 01:45:49,600
onto my client's property and we're

2387
01:45:49,600 --> 01:45:51,119
complaining about how close my client's

2388
01:45:51,119 --> 01:45:52,960
house might be to her property line when

2389
01:45:52,960 --> 01:45:56,400
she's onto my client's property.

2390
01:45:56,400 --> 01:45:58,560
Um other people who wrote in opposition

2391
01:45:58,560 --> 01:46:00,480
19 Flume Road, that's the red star down

2392
01:46:00,480 --> 01:46:03,760
there. There's been no impact to the the

2393
01:46:03,760 --> 01:46:06,080
well-being um the welfare of the public

2394
01:46:06,080 --> 01:46:09,119
health relating to 19 Flume Road. what

2395
01:46:09,119 --> 01:46:11,840
we're doing over here at 29

2396
01:46:11,840 --> 01:46:16,400
24 was an opposition. Uh again the

2397
01:46:16,400 --> 01:46:19,360
concern was about views etc. Those are

2398
01:46:19,360 --> 01:46:20,880
not protected interests. You can't weigh

2399
01:46:20,880 --> 01:46:22,320
those when weighing whether or not this

2400
01:46:22,320 --> 01:46:26,400
will um provide these detriments. And uh

2401
01:46:26,400 --> 01:46:29,280
again market value is not something that

2402
01:46:29,280 --> 01:46:31,280
can be considered is not a protected

2403
01:46:31,280 --> 01:46:33,119
interest by the state law or the local

2404
01:46:33,119 --> 01:46:35,440
law. 21 Flume Road also joined that

2405
01:46:35,440 --> 01:46:38,239
letter. Again they're four lots down.

2406
01:46:38,239 --> 01:46:40,239
nothing we're doing over at 29 is going

2407
01:46:40,239 --> 01:46:43,920
to impact them in any way.

2408
01:46:43,920 --> 01:46:47,520
Uh 25 is two lots down. We're still 70

2409
01:46:47,520 --> 01:46:49,360
feet away

2410
01:46:49,360 --> 01:46:55,119
um from the the lot here. And again, we

2411
01:46:55,119 --> 01:46:57,280
are similarly situated back from the

2412
01:46:57,280 --> 01:47:01,840
paved portion of Flume Road as 25 is.

2413
01:47:01,840 --> 01:47:04,400
28 again is going to be 50 ft plus away

2414
01:47:04,400 --> 01:47:06,080
from the structure. Sorry, it's 50 ft

2415
01:47:06,080 --> 01:47:08,639
from the the lot and 85 ft from the

2416
01:47:08,639 --> 01:47:10,560
structure. Again, a high school

2417
01:47:10,560 --> 01:47:12,000
basketball court could fit in between

2418
01:47:12,000 --> 01:47:13,920
this house and the house that is

2419
01:47:13,920 --> 01:47:16,480
concerned about um what we're building

2420
01:47:16,480 --> 01:47:18,639
on 29.

2421
01:47:18,639 --> 01:47:21,199
We also have 26 joined in letter. They

2422
01:47:21,199 --> 01:47:23,920
are over 130 ft from the structure. So,

2423
01:47:23,920 --> 01:47:26,960
you could actually have a Boeing 737

2424
01:47:26,960 --> 01:47:30,159
taxi between these two houses. Um, I

2425
01:47:30,159 --> 01:47:31,920
don't see how anything going on at 29 is

2426
01:47:31,920 --> 01:47:35,119
going to be impacting uh 26. And then we

2427
01:47:35,119 --> 01:47:38,480
have 22 and 22R. Again, so far, like

2428
01:47:38,480 --> 01:47:39,840
nothing we're doing at 29 is going to

2429
01:47:39,840 --> 01:47:41,679
impact these people. I appreciate that

2430
01:47:41,679 --> 01:47:43,679
everyone has this kind of free lot in

2431
01:47:43,679 --> 01:47:44,800
the neighborhood and they've had it for

2432
01:47:44,800 --> 01:47:45,920
years and they're probably bummed out

2433
01:47:45,920 --> 01:47:48,080
the free lot is going away, but those

2434
01:47:48,080 --> 01:47:50,480
are not, you know, reasons to deny

2435
01:47:50,480 --> 01:47:53,199
reasonable relief. So again, as we

2436
01:47:53,199 --> 01:47:54,800
remind the board of the new standard

2437
01:47:54,800 --> 01:47:57,199
says, you shall grant a variance if you

2438
01:47:57,199 --> 01:47:59,040
can find enforcing it strictly would

2439
01:47:59,040 --> 01:48:01,440
result in a practical difficulty. You

2440
01:48:01,440 --> 01:48:03,520
shall weigh the benefits to my client

2441
01:48:03,520 --> 01:48:05,280
and the public interest of creating

2442
01:48:05,280 --> 01:48:08,400
housing versus public health, safety,

2443
01:48:08,400 --> 01:48:09,840
and welfare of the neighborhood. And

2444
01:48:09,840 --> 01:48:11,760
you've heard no one give a viable

2445
01:48:11,760 --> 01:48:13,679
argument about health, safety, and

2446
01:48:13,679 --> 01:48:15,840
welfare. You've heard about devaluation

2447
01:48:15,840 --> 01:48:18,639
of property values and loss of views.

2448
01:48:18,639 --> 01:48:20,639
And to the degree that any opposition

2449
01:48:20,639 --> 01:48:22,560
cited concerns about proximity to the

2450
01:48:22,560 --> 01:48:24,800
road, we are further back from the

2451
01:48:24,800 --> 01:48:26,320
traveled road than the majority of

2452
01:48:26,320 --> 01:48:29,360
houses on that street. And if anything,

2453
01:48:29,360 --> 01:48:30,719
that tree that's on the corner now

2454
01:48:30,719 --> 01:48:32,320
that's going to come down will improve

2455
01:48:32,320 --> 01:48:35,440
the site across that corner. So I

2456
01:48:35,440 --> 01:48:37,119
believe we've met the standard for

2457
01:48:37,119 --> 01:48:39,280
granting a variance under the current

2458
01:48:39,280 --> 01:48:41,840
standard. I would ask again for a front

2459
01:48:41,840 --> 01:48:44,080
yard variance, sideyard variance, and if

2460
01:48:44,080 --> 01:48:46,000
you think it's necessary, a watt area

2461
01:48:46,000 --> 01:48:49,440
variance. Thank you.

2462
01:48:49,440 --> 01:48:51,119
[clears throat] Discussion by

2463
01:48:51,119 --> 01:48:53,520
the board.

2464
01:48:53,520 --> 01:48:56,320
I think um

2465
01:48:56,320 --> 01:48:58,480
the most telling stat is the fact that

2466
01:48:58,480 --> 01:49:01,920
it's not exceeding the lot coverage. So

2467
01:49:01,920 --> 01:49:03,760
to make a statement that's too big for

2468
01:49:03,760 --> 01:49:05,600
the lot

2469
01:49:05,600 --> 01:49:08,239
may be applicable if they were looking

2470
01:49:08,239 --> 01:49:11,280
for 40% coverage, but they're under 25%

2471
01:49:11,280 --> 01:49:13,679
coverage, which is the standard for this

2472
01:49:13,679 --> 01:49:16,400
neighborhood and for those lots. So, I I

2473
01:49:16,400 --> 01:49:19,199
saw that as to me the most compelling

2474
01:49:19,199 --> 01:49:21,119
argument against saying it's too big for

2475
01:49:21,119 --> 01:49:25,360
the lot. Um,

2476
01:49:25,360 --> 01:49:27,440
just something I noticed.

2477
01:49:27,440 --> 01:49:30,239
>> Uh, I think the comparison to some

2478
01:49:30,239 --> 01:49:33,920
houses uh in the area uh I was under the

2479
01:49:33,920 --> 01:49:36,719
impression uh that this house had more

2480
01:49:36,719 --> 01:49:39,920
square footage uh than Joel is uh

2481
01:49:39,920 --> 01:49:42,239
telling us. I was just doing some very

2482
01:49:42,239 --> 01:49:44,960
quick calculations but I didn't um I was

2483
01:49:44,960 --> 01:49:46,560
just looking at some the you know the

2484
01:49:46,560 --> 01:49:49,360
plans but um I I believe what he's

2485
01:49:49,360 --> 01:49:53,040
telling me. So uh so it to me it's it's

2486
01:49:53,040 --> 01:49:56,480
a comparable size to a number of homes

2487
01:49:56,480 --> 01:49:59,920
uh close by. Uh I also I personally

2488
01:49:59,920 --> 01:50:04,639
don't have a big issue even with the uh

2489
01:50:04,639 --> 01:50:06,960
large variance that's being asked for on

2490
01:50:06,960 --> 01:50:11,360
the front uh because of the the uh the

2491
01:50:11,360 --> 01:50:14,560
way that the road goes very far away

2492
01:50:14,560 --> 01:50:18,880
from the legal property uh itself. Um I

2493
01:50:18,880 --> 01:50:20,800
don't think it there are going to be uh

2494
01:50:20,800 --> 01:50:22,800
any issues

2495
01:50:22,800 --> 01:50:30,560
um for driving uh for obstructing views or

2496
01:50:30,560 --> 01:50:32,000
uh you know visual there was concerns

2497
01:50:32,000 --> 01:50:33,040
that you're not going to be able to see

2498
01:50:33,040 --> 01:50:35,119
the cars coming and stuff like that. If

2499
01:50:35,119 --> 01:50:38,800
you look at um one of the the uh pages

2500
01:50:38,800 --> 01:50:42,320
that Joel put up showed it uh very well

2501
01:50:42,320 --> 01:50:46,080
uh that the road goes far if I'm um with

2502
01:50:46,080 --> 01:50:47,920
the ocean to my right hand side and I'm

2503
01:50:47,920 --> 01:50:49,600
looking at that road it goes far to the

2504
01:50:49,600 --> 01:50:52,239
right uh from where the property line

2505
01:50:52,239 --> 01:50:54,880
actually is. So I don't have an issue

2506
01:50:54,880 --> 01:50:56,159
even though it feels like a large

2507
01:50:56,159 --> 01:50:58,400
variance on the front. Um I don't have a

2508
01:50:58,400 --> 01:51:01,119
big issue with that variance.

2509
01:51:01,119 --> 01:51:04,159
I agree the um

2510
01:51:04,159 --> 01:51:07,440
>> I guess I would add also um that the

2511
01:51:07,440 --> 01:51:10,400
diffic with the septic

2512
01:51:10,400 --> 01:51:13,679
um positioning that adds additional

2513
01:51:13,679 --> 01:51:18,320
difficulty in terms of sighting.

2514
01:51:18,320 --> 01:51:20,000
>> Yeah. It takes away a substantial

2515
01:51:20,000 --> 01:51:23,199
portion of the lot for building. Yes.

2516
01:51:23,199 --> 01:51:25,360
>> When this was developed and these lots

2517
01:51:25,360 --> 01:51:28,000
were carved up, this lot was meant to

2518
01:51:28,000 --> 01:51:29,440
have a house just like all the other

2519
01:51:29,440 --> 01:51:32,000
ones. some reason that lot didn't get

2520
01:51:32,000 --> 01:51:34,880
built on for whatever reason. Maybe

2521
01:51:34,880 --> 01:51:36,560
somebody else owned it in conjunction

2522
01:51:36,560 --> 01:51:39,520
was going to leave it. But we in 10

2523
01:51:39,520 --> 01:51:43,440
years doing doing these hearings, every

2524
01:51:43,440 --> 01:51:45,199
there's such a demand for housing. Every

2525
01:51:45,199 --> 01:51:46,800
vacant lot out there and every

2526
01:51:46,800 --> 01:51:50,000
opportunity to divide more open land to

2527
01:51:50,000 --> 01:51:53,119
create housing is going to come forward.

2528
01:51:53,119 --> 01:51:54,800
And people get to en you know the

2529
01:51:54,800 --> 01:51:56,320
statement you get to enjoy this. And

2530
01:51:56,320 --> 01:51:59,119
we've seen that so many times. Oh, it's

2531
01:51:59,119 --> 01:52:01,440
there's been nothing there. I don't like

2532
01:52:01,440 --> 01:52:04,400
something going there. Well, that's not

2533
01:52:04,400 --> 01:52:08,159
an excuse to deny home to be built on a

2534
01:52:08,159 --> 01:52:10,719
buildable lot. So,

2535
01:52:10,719 --> 01:52:12,960
it's it's happens too much. People are

2536
01:52:12,960 --> 01:52:14,639
used to it. They think it's their open

2537
01:52:14,639 --> 01:52:18,960
land and it's not. So, somebody owns it.

2538
01:52:18,960 --> 01:52:21,360
So, anyway, I would support the

2539
01:52:21,360 --> 01:52:24,560
application. Anybody run?

2540
01:52:24,560 --> 01:52:27,280
>> Yes, I would support it. Um my major

2541
01:52:27,280 --> 01:52:30,480
objection was the uh height previously.

2542
01:52:30,480 --> 01:52:34,800
Um I think some of the this is a an

2543
01:52:34,800 --> 01:52:40,960
example of the the

2544
01:52:40,960 --> 01:52:44,800
difficulty for the public to understand

2545
01:52:44,800 --> 01:52:48,960
zoning. And it's probably ever thus

2546
01:52:48,960 --> 01:52:50,719
um

2547
01:52:50,719 --> 01:52:55,760
it just isn't going to do what a people

2548
01:52:55,760 --> 01:52:58,080
when they're confronted by a development

2549
01:52:58,080 --> 01:53:01,679
in their neighborhood would like. It

2550
01:53:01,679 --> 01:53:05,440
it's if you

2551
01:53:05,440 --> 01:53:09,280
object to this, take another look at the

2552
01:53:09,280 --> 01:53:14,400
criteria that we are asked to to use

2553
01:53:14,400 --> 01:53:17,360
that some of the arguments about not

2554
01:53:17,360 --> 01:53:20,719
being able to see around the corner.

2555
01:53:20,719 --> 01:53:24,960
Frankly, it's an absurd argument

2556
01:53:24,960 --> 01:53:27,920
given that stretched out corner. So that

2557
01:53:27,920 --> 01:53:30,719
doesn't help the the situation very

2558
01:53:30,719 --> 01:53:34,400
much. And saying McMansions and calling

2559
01:53:34,400 --> 01:53:37,440
names and then having it's pretty

2560
01:53:37,440 --> 01:53:38,960
apparent to anybody who drives through

2561
01:53:38,960 --> 01:53:42,719
that neighborhood that a 2500 square

2562
01:53:42,719 --> 01:53:45,840
foot home is is going to be around the

2563
01:53:45,840 --> 01:53:49,920
median. So I I have nothing against

2564
01:53:49,920 --> 01:53:52,480
this. I look forward to seeing a nice

2565
01:53:52,480 --> 01:53:55,280
home on that lot.

2566
01:53:55,280 --> 01:53:56,800
entertain a motion.

2567
01:53:56,800 --> 01:53:58,960
>> So, do we think he needs a a lot of

2568
01:53:58,960 --> 01:54:01,920
variance or not?

2569
01:54:01,920 --> 01:54:04,080
>> He wasn't asking lot area. Oh, for the

2570
01:54:04,080 --> 01:54:05,360
20 to 10.

2571
01:54:05,360 --> 01:54:08,709
>> Yes.

2572
01:54:08,719 --> 01:54:10,159
» Grandfather.

2573
01:54:10,159 --> 01:54:12,159
>> We're definitely grandfathered um

2574
01:54:12,159 --> 01:54:14,000
against belt and suspenders. Grant the

2575
01:54:14,000 --> 01:54:16,080
variance. Case law is a little muddy on

2576
01:54:16,080 --> 01:54:21,430
it. So, I'd appreciate the variance.

2577
01:54:21,440 --> 01:54:23,199
I think the super proceedings changed

2578
01:54:23,199 --> 01:54:26,159
over time, but it's what it was intended

2579
01:54:26,159 --> 01:54:30,310
to be.

2580
01:54:30,320 --> 01:54:32,159
» Right. Yes. Lauren, please on the

2581
01:54:32,159 --> 01:54:34,400
motion. Make a motion on the application

2582
01:54:34,400 --> 01:54:37,119
of Nicholas

2583
01:54:37,119 --> 01:54:38,639
>> Gas

2584
01:54:38,639 --> 01:54:41,199
>> and Christine Geekas, trustee of the

2585
01:54:41,199 --> 01:54:46,159
Lassa Realy Trust, 29 Flume Road,

2586
01:54:46,159 --> 01:54:47,679
Blaster

2587
01:54:47,679 --> 01:54:51,760
uh for a variance for lot area, front

2588
01:54:51,760 --> 01:54:56,639
yard setback and right sideyard setback.

2589
01:54:56,639 --> 01:54:59,040
And I think the applicant has

2590
01:54:59,040 --> 01:55:00,560
demonstrated

2591
01:55:00,560 --> 01:55:04,320
practical difficulty given the lot

2592
01:55:04,320 --> 01:55:10,320
shape, the um septic position and um has

2593
01:55:10,320 --> 01:55:13,440
demonstrated the consistency with other

2594
01:55:13,440 --> 01:55:16,960
structures in the neighborhood.

2595
01:55:16,960 --> 01:55:20,080
I would second I would add that this is

2596
01:55:20,080 --> 01:55:23,760
a very difficult lot, very unusually

2597
01:55:23,760 --> 01:55:30,400
shaped and the way Flume Road is laid out makes it

2598
01:55:30,400 --> 01:55:33,360
extremely deceptive. I second the

2599
01:55:33,360 --> 01:55:34,159
motion.

2600
01:55:34,159 --> 01:55:36,880
>> We have a motion made and seconded.

2601
01:55:36,880 --> 01:55:38,800
Roll call vote.

2602
01:55:38,800 --> 01:55:40,080
>> Mr. Nyman.

2603
01:55:40,080 --> 01:55:42,000
>> Yes, I concur. Uh yes for the three

2604
01:55:42,000 --> 01:55:43,920
variances.

2605
01:55:43,920 --> 01:55:45,040
>> Mr. Wilson.

2606
01:55:45,040 --> 01:55:46,960
>> Yes. For the three variances,

2607
01:55:46,960 --> 01:55:47,760
>> Miss Norton,

2608
01:55:47,760 --> 01:55:48,719
>> yes.

2609
01:55:48,719 --> 01:55:49,599
>> Mr. Py,

2610
01:55:49,599 --> 01:55:51,920
>> yes.

2611
01:55:51,920 --> 01:55:53,760
>> Decision, it's favorable. Appreciate a

2612
01:55:53,760 --> 01:55:54,320
draft.

2613
01:55:54,320 --> 01:55:56,560
>> We'll do. Thank you.

2614
01:55:56,560 --> 01:55:59,760
>> Okay. The last hearing tonight is the

2615
01:55:59,760 --> 01:56:03,760
application of Joseph Bland seeking a

2616
01:56:03,760 --> 01:56:05,520
special permit of variance to construct

2617
01:56:05,520 --> 01:56:09,119
an accessory dwelling unit at 47 County

2618
01:56:09,119 --> 01:56:16,629
Road.

2619
01:56:16,639 --> 01:56:20,159
Good evening. Joseph Borland, 47 Old

2620
01:56:20,159 --> 01:56:23,440
County Road, Gloucester, Mass.

2621
01:56:23,440 --> 01:56:25,040
requesting a special permit under

2622
01:56:25,040 --> 01:56:27,520
section 5246

2623
01:56:27,520 --> 01:56:30,159
for 900 foot detached accessory dwelling

2624
01:56:30,159 --> 01:56:33,920
unit on a property with an existing,080

2625
01:56:33,920 --> 01:56:36,480
ft principal dwelling.

2626
01:56:36,480 --> 01:56:38,480
Some history on the property to begin.

2627
01:56:38,480 --> 01:56:40,400
Uh my grandfather purchased the property

2628
01:56:40,400 --> 01:56:43,679
in 1965 roughly 12 years after the api

2629
01:56:43,679 --> 01:56:46,159
Andrew bridge was completed.

2630
01:56:46,159 --> 01:56:48,480
This at one point was the only dwelling

2631
01:56:48,480 --> 01:56:52,480
on Rust Island. Uh subsequently now the

2632
01:56:52,480 --> 01:56:54,239
third [clears throat] generation owner I

2633
01:56:54,239 --> 01:56:56,320
own the property.

2634
01:56:56,320 --> 01:56:58,320
Our goal is to update and renovate in

2635
01:56:58,320 --> 01:57:00,400
such a way to leave this to the next

2636
01:57:00,400 --> 01:57:02,800
generations of our family with minimal

2637
01:57:02,800 --> 01:57:04,560
burden.

2638
01:57:04,560 --> 01:57:07,280
The addition of an ADU

2639
01:57:07,280 --> 01:57:10,880
uh that is built with ADA compliance in

2640
01:57:10,880 --> 01:57:12,639
mind gives us the opportunity for an

2641
01:57:12,639 --> 01:57:14,400
aging parent to remain in place on the

2642
01:57:14,400 --> 01:57:16,719
property in a one-story accessible

2643
01:57:16,719 --> 01:57:18,960
dwelling. As you can see from the plans,

2644
01:57:18,960 --> 01:57:21,520
a garage offers access directly into the

2645
01:57:21,520 --> 01:57:24,239
living area. This will afford us the

2646
01:57:24,239 --> 01:57:27,040
opportunity to renovate or upgrade the

2647
01:57:27,040 --> 01:57:29,520
current 100-year-old dwelling to today's

2648
01:57:29,520 --> 01:57:32,880
standards without displacement. That

2649
01:57:32,880 --> 01:57:35,119
renovation will likely bring the

2650
01:57:35,119 --> 01:57:37,760
existing dwelling, primary dwelling, uh,

2651
01:57:37,760 --> 01:57:41,280
above 1,800 square f feet.

2652
01:57:41,280 --> 01:57:43,520
Uh, the existing dwelling now has two

2653
01:57:43,520 --> 01:57:45,440
bedrooms on the second floor, one

2654
01:57:45,440 --> 01:57:48,239
bathroom on the first floor. It's a

2655
01:57:48,239 --> 01:57:51,599
2acre lot. Uh, it's the largest of 36

2656
01:57:51,599 --> 01:57:54,239
lots on Rust Island to the north side of

2657
01:57:54,239 --> 01:57:56,080
128.

2658
01:57:56,080 --> 01:57:58,960
Um, the proposed ADU is located, as you

2659
01:57:58,960 --> 01:58:01,040
can see on the plot plan, about 130 ft

2660
01:58:01,040 --> 01:58:05,119
from the existing primary dwelling.

2661
01:58:05,119 --> 01:58:07,360
We recognize the normal calculation

2662
01:58:07,360 --> 01:58:09,840
under 524.5A

2663
01:58:09,840 --> 01:58:13,920
would limit the ADU to 540 square ft.

2664
01:58:13,920 --> 01:58:16,080
That's why we're before you uh the board

2665
01:58:16,080 --> 01:58:19,280
today. Uh, section 524.6 Six

2666
01:58:19,280 --> 01:58:21,040
specifically provides a special permit

2667
01:58:21,040 --> 01:58:22,800
process for an ADU that does not meet

2668
01:58:22,800 --> 01:58:25,280
the otherwise

2669
01:58:25,280 --> 01:58:27,599
applicable requirements. The standard,

2670
01:58:27,599 --> 01:58:28,880
as we understand, the board must

2671
01:58:28,880 --> 01:58:30,800
consider is whether the proposed ADU

2672
01:58:30,800 --> 01:58:33,440
meets the purposes of section 524 and

2673
01:58:33,440 --> 01:58:36,800
will not have a detrimental impact to

2674
01:58:36,800 --> 01:58:38,960
the neighborhood. We believe the

2675
01:58:38,960 --> 01:58:41,199
proposal clearly meets that standard.

2676
01:58:41,199 --> 01:58:44,400
First, the project complies with the

2677
01:58:44,400 --> 01:58:45,840
applicable height and setback

2678
01:58:45,840 --> 01:58:47,840
requirements. The additional living

2679
01:58:47,840 --> 01:58:49,520
space is therefore being provided

2680
01:58:49,520 --> 01:58:52,159
without creating an encroachment or

2681
01:58:52,159 --> 01:58:55,280
setback issue on the property. Uh second

2682
01:58:55,280 --> 01:58:57,280
and importantly, all but one of the

2683
01:58:57,280 --> 01:58:59,280
abutters notified, including the direct

2684
01:58:59,280 --> 01:59:02,239
abutters. I've personally uh briefed on

2685
01:59:02,239 --> 01:59:04,080
the proposed construction. They've all

2686
01:59:04,080 --> 01:59:06,000
expressed their full support of the

2687
01:59:06,000 --> 01:59:09,119
project. We believe that this is

2688
01:59:09,119 --> 01:59:10,480
particularly relevant to the board's

2689
01:59:10,480 --> 01:59:11,599
consideration of the neighborhood

2690
01:59:11,599 --> 01:59:13,440
impact. The people most directly

2691
01:59:13,440 --> 01:59:15,360
affected by the project have seen the

2692
01:59:15,360 --> 01:59:17,920
plans, understand what's being proposed,

2693
01:59:17,920 --> 01:59:20,480
and fully support it. Third, the

2694
01:59:20,480 --> 01:59:22,880
property's septic plan has been reviewed

2695
01:59:22,880 --> 01:59:25,679
and approved by the board of health. Al

2696
01:59:25,679 --> 01:59:29,599
also conservation commission has re uh

2697
01:59:29,599 --> 01:59:33,440
reviewed and subsequently approved

2698
01:59:33,440 --> 01:59:36,080
the proposed septic plan as well as the

2699
01:59:36,080 --> 01:59:38,719
ADU footprint uh with an order of

2700
01:59:38,719 --> 01:59:40,719
conditions issued on September 16th,

2701
01:59:40,719 --> 01:59:42,400
2025.

2702
01:59:42,400 --> 01:59:44,960
Uh that proposal included 3,000 square

2703
01:59:44,960 --> 01:59:46,960
feet of mitigation plantings to address

2704
01:59:46,960 --> 01:59:50,000
lot coverage with the assoc uh with the

2705
01:59:50,000 --> 01:59:53,119
associated uh associated with the ADU.

2706
01:59:53,119 --> 01:59:55,360
If we look at the lock coverage, even

2707
01:59:55,360 --> 01:59:58,719
with the proposed ADU, we're still at

2708
01:59:58,719 --> 02:00:03,520
roughly 4 and a.5% coverage. I think uh

2709
02:00:03,520 --> 02:00:05,760
sitting in R10,

2710
02:00:05,760 --> 02:00:10,320
I think it's 30% if I'm not mistaken. Um

2711
02:00:10,320 --> 02:00:12,480
so this is not a proposal that creates

2712
02:00:12,480 --> 02:00:14,320
unresolved issues regarding any

2713
02:00:14,320 --> 02:00:16,239
setbacks, height, septic capacity, or

2714
02:00:16,239 --> 02:00:18,320
lot coverage. Uh those aspects of the

2715
02:00:18,320 --> 02:00:20,480
project have been specifically addressed

2716
02:00:20,480 --> 02:00:22,800
previously. Most importantly, the

2717
02:00:22,800 --> 02:00:24,960
project advances the purposes of section

2718
02:00:24,960 --> 02:00:27,119
524 by creating an additional housing

2719
02:00:27,119 --> 02:00:28,400
opportunity while maintaining the

2720
02:00:28,400 --> 02:00:29,840
residential character of the property

2721
02:00:29,840 --> 02:00:32,080
and neighborhood. We're not asking the

2722
02:00:32,080 --> 02:00:33,599
board to overlook the city's ADU

2723
02:00:33,599 --> 02:00:35,040
requirements. We're just asking the

2724
02:00:35,040 --> 02:00:37,920
board to apply the specific special

2725
02:00:37,920 --> 02:00:39,440
permit provision that the city

2726
02:00:39,440 --> 02:00:40,960
established for circumstances such as

2727
02:00:40,960 --> 02:00:43,199
this to evaluate the actual impact of

2728
02:00:43,199 --> 02:00:45,599
this particular proposal.

2729
02:00:45,599 --> 02:00:47,520
The ADU is appropriately lo

2730
02:00:47,520 --> 02:00:50,800
appropriately located on the property.

2731
02:00:50,800 --> 02:00:53,119
Height and setbacks comply with the

2732
02:00:53,119 --> 02:00:55,199
applicable requirements. The septic plan

2733
02:00:55,199 --> 02:00:56,320
has been approved by the board of

2734
02:00:56,320 --> 02:00:57,679
health. Conservation Commission has

2735
02:00:57,679 --> 02:00:59,760
approved the footprint of the proposed

2736
02:00:59,760 --> 02:01:01,520
dwelling and the septic system.

2737
02:01:01,520 --> 02:01:03,280
Mitigation plantings address the

2738
02:01:03,280 --> 02:01:05,920
additional lot coverage. The director

2739
02:01:05,920 --> 02:01:07,119
Butters and other Butters have been

2740
02:01:07,119 --> 02:01:08,800
personally briefed and fully support the

2741
02:01:08,800 --> 02:01:12,000
project. Uh is my understanding. The

2742
02:01:12,000 --> 02:01:14,080
proposal also provides an additional

2743
02:01:14,080 --> 02:01:16,000
housing opportunity consistent with the

2744
02:01:16,000 --> 02:01:18,880
purposes of the city's ADU ordinance.

2745
02:01:18,880 --> 02:01:20,320
There's no drainage or storm water

2746
02:01:20,320 --> 02:01:22,080
issues. Utilities and infrastructure are

2747
02:01:22,080 --> 02:01:23,840
not affected. Public health and safety

2748
02:01:23,840 --> 02:01:25,119
has been considered and addressed with

2749
02:01:25,119 --> 02:01:27,679
the upgrading of the septic system. Uh

2750
02:01:27,679 --> 02:01:28,960
it's well within the neighborhood

2751
02:01:28,960 --> 02:01:31,679
character. Uh it's compatible with the

2752
02:01:31,679 --> 02:01:33,360
surrounding development of Rust Island.

2753
02:01:33,360 --> 02:01:35,119
Any environmental impacts have been

2754
02:01:35,119 --> 02:01:37,440
considered and mitigated. It's

2755
02:01:37,440 --> 02:01:39,840
consistent with the purposes of the

2756
02:01:39,840 --> 02:01:43,199
zoning ordinance. So for reasons uh for

2757
02:01:43,199 --> 02:01:44,719
all those reasons, we respectfully ask

2758
02:01:44,719 --> 02:01:47,520
the board to find that the proposed ADU

2759
02:01:47,520 --> 02:01:49,840
meets the purpose of section 5.24 and

2760
02:01:49,840 --> 02:01:52,239
will not have detrimental impact on the

2761
02:01:52,239 --> 02:01:55,280
neighborhood and to grant the requested

2762
02:01:55,280 --> 02:01:58,000
special permit. Thank you.

2763
02:01:58,000 --> 02:01:59,760
>> Thank you.

2764
02:01:59,760 --> 02:02:05,030
>> Questions by the board.

2765
02:02:05,040 --> 02:02:07,520
So I guess

2766
02:02:07,520 --> 02:02:12,550
so the issue is it's a 900

2767
02:02:12,560 --> 02:02:16,320
square foot ADU on a 1080 square foot

2768
02:02:16,320 --> 02:02:19,440
primary res

2769
02:02:19,440 --> 02:02:21,520
which is the

2770
02:02:21,520 --> 02:02:24,000
section of the ADU ordinance that

2771
02:02:24,000 --> 02:02:27,760
they're asking us to

2772
02:02:27,760 --> 02:02:40,229
defer

2773
02:02:40,239 --> 02:02:42,719
The standard is

2774
02:02:42,719 --> 02:02:47,119
the lesser of 900 square ft or 50% of

2775
02:02:47,119 --> 02:02:49,199
the principal.

2776
02:02:49,199 --> 02:02:51,440
>> I couldn't hear you, Lauren.

2777
02:02:51,440 --> 02:02:55,520
>> Sorry. Uh the standard under 5.24.5

2778
02:02:55,520 --> 02:02:57,360
24.5

2779
02:02:57,360 --> 02:03:01,119
for the size of the ADU Michael is a

2780
02:03:01,119 --> 02:03:05,280
maximum of 900 square feet or

2781
02:03:05,280 --> 02:03:08,719
50% of the total habitable space of the

2782
02:03:08,719 --> 02:03:11,280
principal dwelling whichever is less and

2783
02:03:11,280 --> 02:03:14,880
their principal dwelling is um would

2784
02:03:14,880 --> 02:03:17,199
only really permit them to have an ADU

2785
02:03:17,199 --> 02:03:20,239
of 540

2786
02:03:20,239 --> 02:03:24,719
square feet and they're asking for 900.

2787
02:03:24,719 --> 02:03:31,599
I I sort of read it as the intent

2788
02:03:31,599 --> 02:03:34,239
was to create another housing unit

2789
02:03:34,239 --> 02:03:35,760
without

2790
02:03:35,760 --> 02:03:39,360
going against our longstanding

2791
02:03:39,360 --> 02:03:42,080
objection to building two homes on one

2792
02:03:42,080 --> 02:03:43,599
lot.

2793
02:03:43,599 --> 02:03:45,760
And so that's I think where some of the

2794
02:03:45,760 --> 02:03:50,239
uh restrictions came into play. Um,

2795
02:03:50,239 --> 02:03:52,320
but I think you know if they were asking

2796
02:03:52,320 --> 02:03:55,599
for 2,000 feet ADU, no matter how big

2797
02:03:55,599 --> 02:03:58,159
the house was, that would be

2798
02:03:58,159 --> 02:03:59,679
>> another house. Yeah.

2799
02:03:59,679 --> 02:04:03,760
>> 900 foot limit. Um, state regulations

2800
02:04:03,760 --> 02:04:07,119
are different. Um, if they was going to

2801
02:04:07,119 --> 02:04:08,480
if they could meet all the setbacks,

2802
02:04:08,480 --> 02:04:11,280
they could build even a bigger ADU in

2803
02:04:11,280 --> 02:04:13,840
the state ranks. But I don't think the

2804
02:04:13,840 --> 02:04:16,080
fact that they're sticking to the 900, I

2805
02:04:16,080 --> 02:04:17,520
don't really have a problem with that. I

2806
02:04:17,520 --> 02:04:19,599
think it's Yeah, maybe someday they'll

2807
02:04:19,599 --> 02:04:20,800
build that other house or make that

2808
02:04:20,800 --> 02:04:23,920
other house bigger. I'm sure that will

2809
02:04:23,920 --> 02:04:26,239
happen, but in the meantime they get to

2810
02:04:26,239 --> 02:04:28,320
utilize and create another housing unit.

2811
02:04:28,320 --> 02:04:31,280
So, I could go along with that type of a

2812
02:04:31,280 --> 02:04:33,840
Would it be a special permit to that?

2813
02:04:33,840 --> 02:04:36,880
Yeah, the ADU calls for a special permit

2814
02:04:36,880 --> 02:04:42,550
to exceed any of the amounts.

2815
02:04:42,560 --> 02:04:44,960
Um, we can take open the public

2816
02:04:44,960 --> 02:04:47,599
testimony and see what if anyone has a

2817
02:04:47,599 --> 02:04:49,199
thoughts on it. Anyone in the audience

2818
02:04:49,199 --> 02:04:52,000
or at home wishing to speak in favor of

2819
02:04:52,000 --> 02:04:53,760
the application, please come forward.

2820
02:04:53,760 --> 02:04:57,270
Anyone in favor?

2821
02:04:57,280 --> 02:04:59,440
There's a hand up.

2822
02:04:59,440 --> 02:05:01,040
Tobin

2823
02:05:01,040 --> 02:05:14,229
AP Marina.

2824
02:05:14,239 --> 02:05:16,639
» Hi. Can you hear me? Towin Dominic.

2825
02:05:16,639 --> 02:05:17,520
>> Yes.

2826
02:05:17,520 --> 02:05:20,880
>> Hi, Towen Dominic. I'm at 43 Old County

2827
02:05:20,880 --> 02:05:22,800
Road, which is a direct abutter to

2828
02:05:22,800 --> 02:05:24,880
Joseph Borland and the the family's

2829
02:05:24,880 --> 02:05:28,880
property. I think that this is um an

2830
02:05:28,880 --> 02:05:34,000
easy ask and request. Um the family's

2831
02:05:34,000 --> 02:05:36,560
been there for a long time. Uh the

2832
02:05:36,560 --> 02:05:38,239
property definitely is one of the larger

2833
02:05:38,239 --> 02:05:41,199
lots on in the whole area and I think

2834
02:05:41,199 --> 02:05:44,560
the addition of the 900 square ft is a

2835
02:05:44,560 --> 02:05:47,679
reasonable ask and complies with uh the

2836
02:05:47,679 --> 02:05:49,520
rest of the abutters which I believe are

2837
02:05:49,520 --> 02:05:53,189
also in favor.

2838
02:05:53,199 --> 02:05:58,000
» Thank you. Anyone else in favor?

2839
02:05:58,000 --> 02:05:59,679
Is there any opposition? Anyone wishing

2840
02:05:59,679 --> 02:06:05,990
to speak in opposition to the project?

2841
02:06:06,000 --> 02:06:07,440
Seeing none, we'll close public

2842
02:06:07,440 --> 02:06:11,360
testimony. No need for any rebuttal

2843
02:06:11,360 --> 02:06:18,870
discussion. Are we ready for a motion?

2844
02:06:18,880 --> 02:06:20,880
Make a motion on the application of

2845
02:06:20,880 --> 02:06:24,320
Joseph Borland seeking a special permit

2846
02:06:24,320 --> 02:06:28,960
under section 5.2 24.5

2847
02:06:28,960 --> 02:06:36,560
to build an ADU of 900 square ft. Um

2848
02:06:36,560 --> 02:06:40,079
I think it's a nice project and has the

2849
02:06:40,079 --> 02:06:41,920
support of the neighborhood and doesn't

2850
02:06:41,920 --> 02:06:44,000
seem to have a detrimental impact on the

2851
02:06:44,000 --> 02:06:45,840
neighborhood.

2852
02:06:45,840 --> 02:06:47,280
Second. Motion

2853
02:06:47,280 --> 02:06:51,199
>> made and seconded. Roll call vote.

2854
02:06:51,199 --> 02:06:52,800
>> Mr. Nyman.

2855
02:06:52,800 --> 02:06:53,679
>> Yes.

2856
02:06:53,679 --> 02:06:54,719
>> Mr. Wilson.

2857
02:06:54,719 --> 02:06:55,280
>> Yes.

2858
02:06:55,280 --> 02:06:57,599
>> Miss Norton. Yes. Mr. Paresi.

2859
02:06:57,599 --> 02:07:02,560
>> Yes. Paradise decision. We'll get a written decision out to you

2860
02:07:02,560 --> 02:07:04,000
in a few weeks.

2861
02:07:04,000 --> 02:07:05,360
>> Thank you very much. Have a good

2862
02:07:05,360 --> 02:07:10,069
evening,

2863
02:07:10,079 --> 02:07:12,000
» Lauren.

2864
02:07:12,000 --> 02:07:13,440
Okay. We have one other thing on our

2865
02:07:13,440 --> 02:07:14,960
agenda tonight.

2866
02:07:14,960 --> 02:07:16,880
We were asked

2867
02:07:16,880 --> 02:07:18,560
again to review the rules and

2868
02:07:18,560 --> 02:07:20,159
regulations

2869
02:07:20,159 --> 02:07:22,079
for 40B

2870
02:07:22,079 --> 02:07:23,840
and comprehensive permit. If you recall,

2871
02:07:23,840 --> 02:07:26,480
this was in discussion about fees and

2872
02:07:26,480 --> 02:07:31,360
ways we were going to try to uh cover

2873
02:07:31,360 --> 02:07:36,079
what's involved in uh 40B permitting.

2874
02:07:36,079 --> 02:07:39,119
We've reviewed it before and I know uh

2875
02:07:39,119 --> 02:07:42,159
Lauren had submitted

2876
02:07:42,159 --> 02:07:45,520
some uh

2877
02:07:45,520 --> 02:07:47,040
suggestions which I thought were

2878
02:07:47,040 --> 02:07:48,560
incorporated

2879
02:07:48,560 --> 02:07:50,320
but they've asked us to take a look at

2880
02:07:50,320 --> 02:07:53,840
it one last time.

2881
02:07:53,840 --> 02:07:55,679
Um

2882
02:07:55,679 --> 02:07:58,400
and we review this over the next two

2883
02:07:58,400 --> 02:08:01,599
weeks. I'm not accustomed to reviewing a

2884
02:08:01,599 --> 02:08:05,199
fourpage legal ease document

2885
02:08:05,199 --> 02:08:10,629
on first exposure.

2886
02:08:10,639 --> 02:08:13,760
I mean that's that's fine with me. I

2887
02:08:13,760 --> 02:08:15,920
have no problem with this. Uh legal is

2888
02:08:15,920 --> 02:08:18,800
just asking for us to get this addressed

2889
02:08:18,800 --> 02:08:20,400
and taken care of. So, if you guys want

2890
02:08:20,400 --> 02:08:23,360
to take a a couple weeks review it,

2891
02:08:23,360 --> 02:08:26,000
Lauren, I'm going to ask if you can find

2892
02:08:26,000 --> 02:08:29,920
the revised notes cuz I don't have them.

2893
02:08:29,920 --> 02:08:32,000
That way, we can get them over to legal

2894
02:08:32,000 --> 02:08:33,440
and have everything taken care of.

2895
02:08:33,440 --> 02:08:34,480
They're just looking to get this

2896
02:08:34,480 --> 02:08:36,880
completed and submitted to city council

2897
02:08:36,880 --> 02:08:39,440
for approval.

2898
02:08:39,440 --> 02:08:43,920
>> So, we'd have everybody review it. Um,

2899
02:08:43,920 --> 02:08:46,320
>> there's no there's no possibility of

2900
02:08:46,320 --> 02:08:48,960
getting a a a document with that

2901
02:08:48,960 --> 02:08:51,920
wonderful feature. Um, edit, you know,

2902
02:08:51,920 --> 02:08:52,800
show changes.

2903
02:08:52,800 --> 02:08:54,079
>> I think I think they've already done

2904
02:08:54,079 --> 02:08:57,840
that, honestly. Like I I think

2905
02:08:57,840 --> 02:09:00,400
>> I think we've seen this. I think we've

2906
02:09:00,400 --> 02:09:03,119
made comments. We've seen the changes

2907
02:09:03,119 --> 02:09:07,840
made, but it's been a while, so we might

2908
02:09:07,840 --> 02:09:10,000
as well take another look at this.

2909
02:09:10,000 --> 02:09:11,599
>> All right. So, we'll have one last crack

2910
02:09:11,599 --> 02:09:13,199
at it. If you don't see anything you

2911
02:09:13,199 --> 02:09:15,679
don't have an issue with, we'll leave it

2912
02:09:15,679 --> 02:09:17,920
as is. If the changes that we did come

2913
02:09:17,920 --> 02:09:20,079
up with were made, we'll we'll figure

2914
02:09:20,079 --> 02:09:22,719
that out and everybody can take a look

2915
02:09:22,719 --> 02:09:24,480
at it.

2916
02:09:24,480 --> 02:09:27,280
So, we'll continue that

2917
02:09:27,280 --> 02:09:29,760
for a recommendation

2918
02:09:29,760 --> 02:09:30,480
in two weeks.

2919
02:09:30,480 --> 02:09:32,560
>> Going to continue it. Or

2920
02:09:32,560 --> 02:09:34,400
>> would it be appropriate to say let's

2921
02:09:34,400 --> 02:09:37,280
table this until the next meeting? Yeah.

2922
02:09:37,280 --> 02:09:39,440
>> I move that we table this until the next

2923
02:09:39,440 --> 02:09:42,239
meeting. We put it to a vote or you know

2924
02:09:42,239 --> 02:09:44,480
>> motion made to table it for two weeks.

2925
02:09:44,480 --> 02:09:45,440
>> Second.

2926
02:09:45,440 --> 02:09:47,199
>> Seconded.

2927
02:09:47,199 --> 02:09:48,800
>> Roll call.

2928
02:09:48,800 --> 02:09:50,239
>> Mr. Nyman.

2929
02:09:50,239 --> 02:09:51,040
>> Yes.

2930
02:09:51,040 --> 02:09:52,480
>> Mr. Wilson.

2931
02:09:52,480 --> 02:09:53,040
>> Yes.

2932
02:09:53,040 --> 02:09:54,000
>> Miss Norton.

2933
02:09:54,000 --> 02:09:55,360
>> Yes. Mr. Pey.

2934
02:09:55,360 --> 02:09:58,400
>> Yes. Want to chain a motion to adjurnn?

2935
02:09:58,400 --> 02:10:03,109
>> Motion to adjurnn.

2936
02:10:03,119 --> 02:10:03,920
» Second.

2937
02:10:03,920 --> 02:10:07,119
>> Seconded. Roll call. Mr. Diamond,

2938
02:10:07,119 --> 02:10:08,320
>> yes.

2939
02:10:08,320 --> 02:10:09,440
>> Mr. Wilson,

2940
02:10:09,440 --> 02:10:10,320
>> yes.

2941
02:10:10,320 --> 02:10:11,520
>> Miss Norton,

2942
02:10:11,520 --> 02:10:11,920
>> yes.

2943
02:10:11,920 --> 02:10:17,350
>> Mr. Pey,

2944
02:10:17,360 --> 02:10:18,719
» good night, Michael.

2945
02:10:18,719 --> 02:10:20,159
>> I'm leaving without him whether he says

2946
02:10:20,159 --> 02:10:22,000
yes or not. [laughter]

2947
02:10:22,000 --> 02:10:22,800
>> Good night, everyone.

2948
02:10:22,800 --> 02:10:26,639
>> Yes, we are ajour. Do it.