Okay, we ready? Yep.
I now call to order the planning commission meeting for january 15th, 2026.
uh, ms. Parker, do we have a quorum? Yes. Ms. Kowalski, we have a quorum. Uh, please
stand for the pledge of allegiance and remain standing for the invocation.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america
and to the recovery for which it stands, one nation under
god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
please bow, bear your heads for prayer. Heavenly
father, we come before you today as a community concerned about everyone's rights
and the quality of life in our county. We seek your guidance,
we seek your wisdom. In this meeting, we ask that your spirit be present
among us, keeping our interactions respectful and guiding our decisions
for the common good. Help us to set aside our differences and
to endeavor to understand each other's points of view and to work together in
unity, ensuring that our efforts reflect your will to make goochland
a better county. In your holy name we pray, amen. Amen.
um, has everyone had a chance to read the minutes from the, uh, december 18th, 2025
meeting? Are there any comments or is there a motion to approve?
I motion to approve. Aye. I second.
alright, mr. Kimberly? Aye. Mr. Patt aye. Ms. Kowalski
aye. Mr. Mclaughlin aye. Mr. Dean aye. Thank you.
uh, we are now ready for the director's report.
thank you. Ms. Parker. Excuse. Thank you, ms. Parker.
madam chair, your welcome, madam chair, members of the commission
for the record, I'm jamie sherry, director of planning and zoning. This evening
I'll be presenting a brief director's report on upcoming public
hearings. Looking ahead to the
board of supervisors meeting on february 3rd, there are two conditional use
permit cases scheduled. This meeting we will, will be held at 6:00 pm
right here in the boardroom. The first is in district one and involves a request
for a detached accessory family housing unit on approximately 20 acres
on loving springs lane. The property is zoned a one and is
designated as rural enhancement area in the comp plan. The second
case is in district three, also for a detached family housing unit
on approximately 3.7 acres on hawk town road.
the property is zoned a two and is also designated as
rural enhancement area. Both of these requests require
a conditional use permit for
the february planning commission. Uh, it's february 19th
at 6:00 pm there are also two conditional use permits scheduled, and the
meeting will be held here in the boardroom at 6:00 pm the first is in
district three, is a request for a home-based business on pleasant hill lane
that is involving a small scale fabrication of custom
parts and tools used for maintaining and repairing mechanical
equipment. The property is approximately 17 acres and is zoned
a two and located in the rural enhancement area.
the second case in district four is a request for a school use on the
property along three chop road and broad street road. This is,
uh, combined. The combined site is approximately seven acres, zoned
a two and is also zoned, um, rural enhancement area.
and at this time, there are no community meetings scheduled. And that's all I have
for you all this evening. Thank you.
thank you. Uh, now we are on to citizen comment period
per the planning commission bylaws sec section four, addressing the commission. Public
comments. Generally, all persons who speak before the commission during the citizen comment
period or a public hearing shall do so from the lectern and furnish their names
and addresses to the commission. A speaker shall only speak once on any item
unless the commission asks the speaker to answer questions. No person may address the
commission unless they have first been recognized by the chair. Each person who desires
to speak shall be given time to present oral or written comments. Comment shall be directed to
the commission, not to the audience. The citizen comment period provides
a public forum for the commission to hear from citizens about matters pertinent to
the activities, issues, or policies of the commission. The citizen comment
period is limited to matters that are not scheduled for public hearing
on tonight's agenda. Uh,
and just, um, to reiterate, these are for, uh, anything that is not
to be spoken about tonight. Um, if you do wish to speak during the citizen comment
period, please come forward. State your name and address. You will have three minutes
to speak. The green light will come on that indicates the start of your three minutes.
uh, the yellow light will indicate that you have one minute remaining and the red light
indicates the end of, uh, your time. Um, do we have anyone
that wishes to speak during the public comment time?
all right. I will then close the public. Um, comment period.
um, unfinished business, we have no unfinished
business. There are two items of new business. The first item
of new business is establishment of the nominating committee. The nominating committee
is a two person committee, which will nominate chair and vice chair at the april
meeting where the chair and vice chair will officially be elected. Are there
any volunteers for the nominating committee? I will volunteer.
I will volunteer. Thank you.
our second item of new business this evening is an action item before the commission and
will not come before the board of supervisors district five cmp 20 25 2
application by sta properties llc requesting approval of a
conceptual master plan for a distribution use on 40.3
acres on tax, about number 63 37 1 2 0
and west creek business park. The property is zoned industrial limited m1
with proffered conditions and is governed by the proffers associated with west creek
business park. The comprehensive plan designates this area as prime
economic development. Thank you, ms. Parker. Madam chair
for the record. My name is carrie raglin. I'm assistant planning director for the county and
we'll be providing the staff presentation for this application. As
stated, the request is within district five is an and is an application
for approval of a conceptual master plan within the west creek business park.
the vicinity map on the left indicates the subject area outlined in red
at the southeastern part of the county near route 2 88, and the aerial photo
on the right indicates the subject property also outlined in red. For a better
reference, the property is located directly west of route 2 88
and is situated between route 2 88 and west creek parkway north
of patterson avenue.
the zoning map on the left shows the subject property and adjacent properties
all is within the m1 zoning district. The comprehensive plan map on
the right shows the subject property and adjacent properties as prime economic development.
as discussed, the request is to approve a conceptual master plan for a
distribution center, specifically a last mile distribution center, which
is a facility used to store sort and dispatch goods close to the final
customer. This is before you tonight because of the proffered conditions within
the west creek business park, which requires planning, commission, review and approval.
the application does not require public hearing, but rather is an action item that
requires the vote. The proposed distribu distribution center
is a by right use within the m1 zoning. In
addition to the planning commission review, other proffers include development
standards for the site such as landscaping road dedications,
at least 30% net open space roadway and site buffers,
setbacks from buildings and parking underground utilities, and for
the bmps to serve as amenities.
on this slide, you can see the proposed conceptual plan on the right, and I
will show this in a larger format. On another screen. The plan demonstrates
a large 114,000 square foot warehouse as the main delivery center
and a 5,000 square foot service building for the fleet. Vehicles also
shown as the underground stormwater facilities and employee parking three
access points are shown on west creek parkway, all of which are to be installed
as full access openings, creating three median breaks for left and right
turns in and out of the site.
and I'll pause here for a moment with a larger image to point out. The
main warehouse building the service
building for the fleet vehicles, uh, generally
employee parking at the center and the northern entrance
specifically, um, is for large trucks to unload their contents, which would be brought
from the main distribution centers on this side. The southern most
entrance is mostly for the van fleet service, which creates a direct access
to the back of the building while they where they will get loaded. And the
central access point is generally for employee parking.
the conceptual plan is intended to be general nature and then followed by a
detailed plan of development approval. Should issues arise with the
pod where the site plans are not in conformance with a conceptual plan, the applicant
would need to revise their cmp application and return to the planning commission
for a revised approval of the concept plan. It should be
noted that a plan of development is under a formal review with staff. Under those
review processes, staff is able to comment on the specific measurements and
engineering of the site. The concept plan is in accordance
with a comprehensive plan, the west creek proffers and the plan of
development under review.
madam chair, this concludes the staff presentation. There is a representative here if
you have any questions. Do you have any questions of me?
any questions? No. No. No. Thank you. Okay.
do you mind just stating your name for the record? Good
evening. My name is joshua bryant. I'm with cph consulting and
we are the design consultant for this project. Um, so I'm here in
case anyone has any questions? No.
any questions? None. No. No. I think we're good. Thank you. Thank you joshua. Thank you
madam chair. I move that the commission approved conceptual master plan
cmp 20 25 0 0 0 0 2
application by summit properties llci second that,
uh, mr. Kimberly? Aye. Mr. Patak? Aye. Ms. Kowalski?
aye. Mr. Mclaughlin? Aye. Mr. Dean aye.
cmp 20 25 2 is approved with a five oh vote.
uh, do we have any requests to defer
additions, deletions, or changes to the order of public hearings? There are no
requests to defer additions, deletions, or changes to the order of the public hearings.
okay, our first public hearing tonight is in district three, rz 20 25 6.
application by bj's hauling llc requesting to rezone 2.16
acres from agricultural limited, a two to industrial general
m two with proffered conditions for an office and outside storage for trucking
business at 1991 triplet lane on tax be number 45 7 0
c. The comprehensive plan designates this area as industrial.
thank you ms. Parker. Madam chair, I'll state again for the record. My name is carrie
raglan and I'll be presenting the, uh, staff presentation for this application.
the request is within district three and is an application for rezoning
from the a two agricultural district to the m two industrial district with
proffered conditions for the purpose of an office with outside storage
for a truck hauling business. The
vicinity map on the left shows the subject area outlined in red, while the aerial
photo on the right indicates the subject property also outlined in red,
where a better reference the parcels located north of broad street on triplet lane
just across from the county bus depot, which can be seen here
in the aerial.
the zoning map on the left demonstrates the subject property and adjacent properties to the
north and east as a two agricultural district. Properties to the
south and west are zoned m1 and m two industrial. The comprehensive
plan map on the right demonstrates the property and most adjacent properties
as industrial. The bus depot to the west is shown as institutional
here in blue as it's owned by the county.
the property was historically developed as a single family residence, and if
this application is approved, the structure could no longer be used as a dwelling.
currently the property is accessed by a private driveway, which extends
off of triplet lane. Note here in the aerial photo that
as triplet lane runs north, you follow the red dot.
uh, the path diverts at the property's driveway just here shown
in white as the access easement while the state road actually
jogs left and then continues north. The result is that there is a private
access easement here, which runs parallel to the
state road here, and you can see the curve in the road.
three parcels utilize the access easement, which are the subject
property here and two adjacent properties to the
north. However, none of the parcels are landlocked and all
are able to extend a driveway directly onto triplet here,
or the private road to the north, which is pothole road.
the applicant is requesting to rezone 2.16 acres from agricultural
to industrial with proffered conditions in order to create an office building for a truck
hauling business and outside storage for their truck hauling fleet.
the applicant has proffered a conceptual plan, which shows the existing residence to remain
a parking area at the front of the building at a fenced in and screened storage fenced
in and screened storage yard will be added to the back for the truck
fleet. Oops, went too fast.
six other conditions are proffered to include buffer requirements, construction hours,
and screening of the outside storage. As shown
in the concept plan, a new straight entrance would be added onto triplet
to provide better site distance for the trucks pulling out of the property. Any right
of way or site distance easements would be reviewed and acquired at the plan development stage.
and this slide shows the proffered concept plan on here as described.
I'll point out the existing house here to remain a new parking
area proposed at the front of the property. The screened in, uh, the
screen storage at the back, which includes a fence and vegetative screening,
as well as screening at the north of the property.
and then a new commercial access right here directly onto triplet.
this is different from the current access, which is down here.
then there is a triangle here, which shows expected right of way dedication
or site distance easements needed to make the new entrance safe.
the proposed m two zoning district is intended for heavy commercial and industrial operations.
outdoor storage is allowed by right in the district. The
property and several adjacent properties are designated as industrial land use
and the the application is consistent with the comprehensive plan.
reviewing cha transportation further triplet lane route 1213
is identified as a local road. It's undivided with a 35 mile per hour
speed limit. A traffic count was provided by grove sl, which showed
that no improvements would be required due to the proposed development. The
applicant is proposing to relocate the entrance on triplet to correct the current
situation of forsight distance due to the current jog in the road.
the applicant has also proffered right of way to vdot to be determined at
the time of plan development in order to create a safer entrance.
the community meeting was held on october 20th, 2025. Six.
members of the public attendant as well as the applicants citizen comments
were related to vegetative buffers with the adjacent property to the north
fencing around the outside storage area and how the entrance changes
would affect the property to the north.
this slide is a summary of the proffered conditions and I do have them all available.
um, on, on a full screen if there's any questions regarding the specific language.
the proffers include general conformance with a conceptual plan,
which is exhibit a in the staff report, a landscape buffer to
be provided along the northern property line and at the eastern, um,
parcel for wells to be drilled rather than board
for construction hours to be limited to 7:00 am to p 8:00 pm monday
through saturday for right of right of way dedication to be dedicated
along triplet. At the time of planet development, the applicant has
proffered out specific uses to include junk storage,
sawmills, car wash, debris landfill, solar energy facility,
or wind turbines. All outdoor storage
must be permanently screened from all public roads by either vegetation or fencing.
this is also demonstrated on the concept plan.
madam chair, this concludes the staff presentation. The applicant is here to answer questions
if needed. Do you have any questions from me at this time? None. No.
any questions? I have a quick one. What is the thought behind the wells being
drilled rather than board? Uh, that's a common condition that we
do see in goochland and then the difference is really longevity and
I can explain the difference between the two, but that's, that's a, that's a common, um,
proffer that we see in gland. Thank you. Thank you. Um, quick
question on the, um, the site plan. Am I to assume the front
portion looking at, um, sorry, if you wanna go back. Yeah, I can kind of,
I'm pushing the button, I promise. No, you're good. Take your time. You
want this? Okay. The front portion,
is that all going to be paved with the back portion being gravel? Is that why
you're showing the discrepancy in, um, in the, yeah.
thank you. The texture of it is that yes, that demonstrated is is the texture? Yes ma'am. Okay. Mm-hmm
. Okay. Thank you. And there's a proposed, I think gate here
to differentiate the two between the storage and the, the public parking areas. Okay. Okay.
thank you.
any other questions? Nope. Okay. Okay. I'll, um, introduce the applicant's representative.
hi, good evening everyone. My name is andrew browning with
the engineering firm youngblood tyler and associates here representing the applicant. Uh, mr.
bj snead who is also with me, uh, I do not have a presentation, but I'm
happy to answer any questions that you may have.
any questions for the applicant? No. No, we're good. Thank you. Thank
you. Alright.
um, let's see here. Um,
I will now open up the public hearing for this case. Um, is there anyone
that would like to speak on this case, either in this room or in the overflow rooms?
and I'll pause for a couple seconds in case anyone would like to come from the overflow
rooms.
all right. Uh, seeing no one, I will now close, uh, the public comment
period for this case.
all right. Any, no. It seems to me that the
applicant's done, uh, what they need to do in, uh,
response to the public meeting. Yeah.
would anyone like to make a motion? Yeah, I
move that we, uh, the commission recommend approval of rezoning
rz 2 0 2 5 0 0 0 0 6 application
by bj hauling llc with proper conditions as presented.
second. Alright, mr. Dean?
aye. Mr. Mclaughlin? Aye. Ms. Kowalski aye.
mr. Patak aye. Mr. Kimberly aye.
the motion to recommend approval passes on a five oh vote. This case case
is tentatively scheduled to be heard by the board of supervisors march 3rd, 2026.
it moves forward with a recommendation of approval from the planning commission.
our second public hearing item this evening is in district four,
cu 20 25 11. Application by jose carmen
correa ano and anna isabel ramirez. Ano
requesting a conditional use permit cup for an accessory family housing
unit detached on 2.01 acres at 2 2 0 2
mannequin road on tax map number 47 9 0 3
c. The property is owned agricultural limited a two. The cup
is required by county zoning ordinance section 15 1 12 in accordance
with section 15 2 85 a. The comprehensive plan designates
this area as rural enhancement area. Okay, we're gonna take
a quick pause while mr. Dean, uh, recuses himself and leaves the room. Yeah. Madam
chair, I do recuse myself. Thank you.
go ahead. Good evening, madam chairwoman, my and members of
the commission. My name is ben ellis. I'm a planner for the county.
for you is an application by jose carmen correa arno and
ana isabelle ramirez. Arno for condition
use permit for an accessory family housing unit. Detached
property is located on about two acres at 2 2 0 2 mannequin road in
district four. The map on the left shows the general
vicinity of the property within the county. The map on the right shows the property outlined
in red, the property as well as the surrounding properties exhibit
a rural character.
the property and adjacent properties are zoned a two agricultural limited.
the comprehensive plan designates this property and the surrounding properties as rural
enhancement area.
the property is currently occupied by a single family dwelling as well as a detached garage.
the approximate location of the existing dwelling is shown by the green square.
the approximate location of the detached garage is shown by the blue square.
the applicant is proposing to construct an accessory family housing unit upon approval of
this conditional use permit. The proposed location of this
additional dwelling as indicated by the applicant, is shown by the red
square. The applicant currently accesses the property through a shared
drive that is shared by all three properties,
but as you can see on the plat to the right, this drive does not fall the platt right of
way, which is outlined in green. The addition, in
addition to the right of way, there is another issue involving the access
connection. On july 2nd, 2024, gland county updated
its private road standards. These new private road standards increased
the minimum road width from 16 feet to 20 feet. The
minimum, excuse me, the driveway is classified as a private road as it
provides access to at least three lots. Road currently does
not appear to meet the current standards.
the applicant hosted a community meeting on june 16th at gland fire and rescue
station three eight citizens attended. The applicant explained
the proposal and discussion included the location of the proposed dwelling,
the location of the proposed train field in relation to the neighboring well
visibility of the proposed dwelling, setbacks, land disturbance,
size, and height of the proposed dwelling and well types
two members of the public expressed concern with the proposal with one
additional member expressing support
with the draft conditions. This proposed use would be in compliance with the comprehensive plan.
in addition to the standard conditions for this use, staff is recommending two additional
conditions. Conditions one through five are standard conditions. Conditions
one through three relate to the use of the property conditions. Four
and five relate to safety
to resolve the issues of non-conformity with the access connections. Staff has proposed that the
road be brought into conformance before the issuance of a building permit.
for this proposed dwelling staff has proposed two options as
to how the applicant may, uh, remedy the situation.
the first option would to be to rebuild the road within the access easement to current
standards. The second would be to improve the
existing road to current standards and move and replace the easement over the
existing road. Secondly, in
response to the neighbor's concerns, staff has proposed a vegetative screening requirement.
if condition eight, this permit would be valid for a period of 10 years.
the last condition is the county's standard transfer and lease language.
finally, I'd be happy to answer any questions from the commission at this time.
thank you. Uh, what questions I do? Yep. Um,
the shared road, is the applicant willing to make those changes
to that road? The applicant has indicated they're willing to make those changes.
okay. Um, second, the second dwelling.
approximately how large is that going to be? Square footage?
is it approximately the same size as the first dwelling?
I'm sorry. Um, the proposed square footage of
the building is 2,467 square feet.
um, I cannot tell you what that is in relation to the existing dwelling.
okay. ? Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm
. Pretty large. Thank you.
and the amount of setback from the
property line is approximately how much again? Um, this use
will be required to meet principal structure setbacks, uh, which from the sides,
uh, property lines is 20 feet from each side. Okay.
there was a community meeting, uh, you mentioned there was, there was a few people
in opposition? Yes. Were any of those people,
um, the landowner where the new easement is coming through?
um, no, the, uh, the easement or
sorry, the landowner up front? Yeah, no. Um, the neighbors
adjacent though are concerned. Okay.
their concern being, um, I believe they're here and they
may speak on that matter. Okay. Um, I just, um, I'm
refer referencing these, um, property orders. Parcel b? Yes.
okay. Thank you.
any other questions? No. Okay. Alright. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Uh,
would the applicant like to speak?
hi, my name is yo holly and this is my husband daniel, and we
are here representing my in-laws, um, who are the ones
that put in the application for the conditional use permit.
um, if you guys have any questions, uh, feel free to let us know. Okay. Thank
you. Do you have any questions? Any questions?
I, I guess, um, my question would be is what's the concern of
the people that own parcel b with your project?
um, I believe one of their concerns was,
um, the driveway. But I, I'm gonna let them
extend on that. I'm not really sure what their concern is. Um,
I know my in-laws have accepted to widen the current
road that is there and then do like the new easement there. Right.
and they're willing to, obviously that is on,
on them to get that taken care of. Okay.
any other questions for the applicant? No. No. Okay. Thank you.
thank you. Thank you. Uh,
I will now open, uh, the public comment period for this case.
would anyone like to come forward either from this main hall or from,
uh, one of our, um, overflow rooms? If so, please
come up. State your name and address and you'll have three minutes to speak. I'm on the list, so I wasn't
sure. Um, can I go now? Yeah. Yes ma'am. See
katie? Yes. Katie martin. Um, my husband here, josh martin,
live at 2200 mannequin road. Um,
and I'd just like to clarify on the, on the whole driveway, I'm actually, um,
opposed to changing it. I'm in favor of just leaving it and you guys not having to do anything with
it. Um, so my, um, I've emailed you guys
previously and just wanted to make sure that it made it into the minutes. So that's
kind of why I'm here speaking. Um, I can go back through the emails
if you know that I, that I sent y'all, if that is, that, that would be helpful. Yes, please.
thank you. Absolutely. Um, I'm writing as
a resident of the property owner at 2200 mannequin road regarding the proposed condition conditional
use permit for the accessory dwelling at 2202 mannequin road.
first, I wanna express that I fully support responsible development, and my intent
is not to prevent my neighbors from improving or expanding their property.
I understand the value that accessory housing can bring to our community. However, after
reviewing the proposed site plan, I have concerns about the location of the
proposed structure as it currently relates to the privacy character and
enjoyment of my property at 2200 mannequin road.
specifically the proposed placement, excuse me, of
the accessory dwelling is in very close proximity to my backyard and
living area. And I'm concerned that with even the proposed screening, the structures
location will significantly impact the privacy of our outdoor living space.
after the character alter the character of my property in ways that are not
sufficiently mitigated by landscaping or fencing affect my ability to comfortably
enjoy our yard and our home to address these concerns while still
allowing the project to move forward. I respectfully request that the commission consider
requiring the applicant to relocate the proposed accessor accessible
accessory dwelling further down their property property, ideally
closer to the existing living quarters or garage. I believe this adjustment
would better balance the needs of all parties preserving re reasonable
privacy and enjoyment without preventing use of their property. Additionally,
I would like to suggest that the county consider revising the easement agreement
to maintain the driveway in its current location rather than creating a new access point
through the existing properties. Keeping the driveway where it currently
exists would help minimize new disturbances to neighboring properties and preserve
existing usage patterns. Um, in addition to that,
we're concerned about the potential effects of construction and ground disturbance on our well, which
is located very close to the area, um, where they're proposing,
we're worried about the structural integrity and long-term safety of our well system.
and eva, um, evacuation incurs so close to
it, respectfully request that this aspect be considered by the commission.
did you guys have any questions for me
to I do. Um, to make it easier on you, is there
a better location or is it just a slight moving of where it
is? I mean, it's an odd shaped piece of property. It is an odd shaped property
and it, and it's, it's very slanted. Okay. Um, the property itself,
I don't, I don't know what their availability is down there. Um, I just
know where the proposed lot, I mean, it's, yeah, I sent pictures in this morning, I'd
be happy to turn them in. It is so thin through there already.
um, you know, seeing their property, that having a home right there, you
know, in our backyard where a pool is and, you know, we entertain right. Pinch, you know, it's just, um,
and as you mentioned, it's, it's a, it's a pretty large home that they're looking to build. Yeah.
um, and I feel like it had, it's kind of, kind of hinder right. In
our, our space. Got it. Um, so I, I, you know, I,
I want them to be able to, to build, but sure. I'm just wondering if we can be open
to some other location to where it's not,
you know, infringing on our, our property lines. Thank you. Mm-hmm .
any other questions? No, you did say it's a slanted property. Um,
is, so I, I assume that as you get farther from the road, it drops
down. Is that what you mean by that? So when we, so the shared driveway,
um, the two homes, my home and the front neighbor, he, it's, it's
flat. But to get down to their home, you have to go down a, a pretty large, um,
decline to get down. So they're from my house down to
them. It's, it's a pretty large decline. All right. And,
and to the garage that they have, do you familiar with
that? Is that, is that, uh, a, a downhill grade as well?
it is slan down. Yeah. That's what you mean by that. From where we we're. Yeah. Alright. Yeah.
and I feel like where they're looking to build is, is more at the top of
where the slant, you know, is kind of down. So you prefer it to be more down toward
the garage? I do, yeah. Because, you know, we don't really see the garage. I mean, I can see it, but it's
not okay. It's not there, you know, that seems fair.
yeah. Thank you. Um, ben? Yes.
would the applicant be a available to talk about making
those changes or, uh, would you like to
come up respond? I'm sorry.
yeah. So there is a reason you've proposed this location?
um, yes. Um, the lot is
very weirdly shaped mm-hmm . And I know ideally
my in-laws wouldn't prefer the house to be in the
location that it is set to be right now, but just playing
around with the setbacks and the soil evaluation setbacks
and their well is on the line.
so for septic, we have to have the house there
and put the septic on the other side of the property. That way
his well does not affect it. And we respect the
feet that they setbacks, the setbacks that they ask him between these, the new
septic and then his, well,
so you, you're saying that you, there's no way you
could move it even slightly down, out of her
backyard and toward your garage? Uh, because the setbacks
on the garage, uh, I don't know what is the setbacks,
but I don't think we can put close to the garage because they, uh,
the setbacks require a big amount
on people. I'm not sure I understand setbacks. Yes.
um, so in addition to the, uh, for principal
structure, which would be a dwelling or an accessory dwelling, right. Um, they're required to have,
uh, be 20 feet off of the side property lines, which would be these three as well as this
one. Yep. And 35 feet off of the rear property line. Mm-hmm
. Uh, the, um, garage may be located closer
than that. Um, as an accessory structure, it's only required to be five feet off
of a rear and side property line. So it seems there would be some
room available to slide that second dwelling down toward
the garage to at least get it somewhat out of the way.
that make sense? It is a, um, awkward shaped lot.
yeah, I see that. Great constraints, um, I think
goes straight south, straight towards the garage can solve the same,
it's the only place you can go.
is there a driveway going from to the
garage currently? The, the blue, is there any type of a driveway going
to that right now? Yes. Uh, so this would eliminate that
driveway? Correct. Over there. Be now we
will, we will have the house on the other side of the existing driveway.
the, the driveway will be stay on. Where is it? So there's also
a driveway that's going to be next to the proposed,
uh, that driveway is for, for the entrance between, uh,
manakin road and our property.
okay. But there is, is there a driveway? Yeah. Right now extending
from go ahead, ben. Around all the way back to yes. All the way
back to that blue garage back there. And would that driveway be impact,
is it, is it gonna be on one side or the other of this proposed house or is
it going away? Will we stay on the same?
on the same? So where is it right now?
right by the garage, I imagine. Right. This would be the right of the proposed house. To
the right of the proposed house. Yeah. So but between your property and
their property, correct? Mm-hmm . Or it would be between the proposed house
and their property, correct? Mm-hmm . Okay. That would make, or that
would make a vegetative screening difficult if there's a
driveway there, but
13, um, I believe so the driveway is located,
um, exactly to the right side. And I think from the driveway
to their property, it's about like 13 to 14 feet. So there
is, I know on here it looks a little bit thinner. It does, yeah. I don't have any
images with me like to show exactly how it
is right now, but there is enough space to do like the,
the plantings that are being proposed. And then
I'm still kind of hung up on, I, I get what you are with the garage. I just don't
know that you can make that dwelling as we see it on this map.
move down south, south toward the garage
to at least help relieve your neighbor's,
you know, interest in having some more space right behind
her backyard. Mm-hmm . Ben, ben, what is the, um, feet
difference between the, the the red proposed and, and the, the
garage? The, what is that approximately in terms of elevation? Is that what you mean?
no, just feet distance apart. Distance, distance apart. Um, maybe given
the, the red square only indicates the approximate location of the dwelling,
uh, specific, specific review of the location of the
dwelling and uh, to make sure that it's meeting required setbacks
would take place during building permit review. Um, at this time, this is a conceptual
plan. Okay? Mm-hmm . Okay, ben. Um,
is it possible, well, maybe this is a better question for you.
. Can, can we make it so there's not a new easement
as, as part of the conditions?
mr. Mclaughlin, the easement is a private easement that sits on
the property. So, and my understanding of this, and I will let ben
speak to this, is this is a code compliance issue with regard to entrance and
the number of dwellings and or lots that are to be served by this
private road or driveway. But the easement itself was put there
when the original landowner subdivided the property. And it goes back
a little bit in time, if I remember correctly, but the county is
not a party to that easement. It's a private easement. Mm-hmm .
did I answer your question? Yeah, yeah,
I think so. Please. On the left side
of the new property, uh, I'm sorry, on the left side of the new
building or the new mm-hmm . Uh, threat, we will
have the septic lines because on the right
side is his well, so it is why when we was doing the soil
test and all the evaluations for, for the septic, yeah. They put
the septic on the, on the
left side because on the right side he has his, well on
his wall is not deep in there with about a hundred, I think it's
a hundred feet from the septic to his. Well, and
it is why the house is there because we will have
to have the septic on the older side. Okay.
counsel, may I share, um, with the planning commission,
the, uh, applicant's, um, soil evaluation that
they submitted. Okay.
I see a proposed, proposed. Well, that's what I was saying.
there's not proposed
that that's that
in house
right here.
right. But I don't see why they can't drop this
just closer. And as they move that way, they're dropping terrain.
I get it, but I mean, not sure.
and they can't go in that direction because of
the septic field. Mm-hmm . Thank you for your patience. Yeah. Chris,
that's really gonna help.
question. I it,
so there's, we go, so that's this dot on the map here, right? Mm-hmm
.
but you see this is where their house is. Mm-hmm . You move this
down, they're much further away.
okay. Thank you. Thank
you ben.
so what we're looking at is just a, a draft, a draft, um, from matthew's soil.
uh, it shows where all the existing dwellings are, the barn,
um, the proposed house. It shows where,
um, the new septic would go and mm-hmm . The
well locations. Just explaining that to,
to everyone in the crowd.
so initially on the first meeting, I, I know,
so this issue was discussed and I'm aware that my
in-laws initially wanted to build a two story
home, um, just because of like the width of that piece of land,
right. Um, after hearing their,
um, concerns regarding the property being located
there, um, they have accepted to do it
a one story house. That way it's not
that high up and it won't invade their privacy as much as a one story or
a one level homewood as a two level homewood, that's a big deal.
yeah. Um, I
you're representing your in-laws, correct? Yeah. I'm just wondering whether we,
we shouldn't have them here to kind of make a decision
that you don't have to make for them. They're here with
us. We're just, oh, I'm sorry. Just decided to come up here due to the
language barrier. Oh, didn't know that. I'm sorry. I thought they were not available. Yeah, it's their present time.
. Got it. Okay.
he is willing to also do eight, eight feet fans
vis fence. Can you, uh, push the mic closer a little bit so everybody can hear you?
he's willing to, uh, build a eight, eight
feet fence, uh, to hold the vis okay. On
in the backyard? Yes. And then, uh, all along their property. So an eight
foot privacy fence and then some green evergreen es that
will be growing also could be help de bit helping.
and are those listed as conditions? Ben? No. Uh,
the eight foot fence? I don't think that was now, no, there was no think she's just offering them now?
no, there was no fence. Uh, that is not a current condition, right?
it's just a vegetative screening. Okay.
okay. Uh, so then go ahead. I was just gonna,
we talk to yeah. Each other. Yeah. Um,
I'm not sure if it's been explored how far south, right. They
can go. I really wanna see 'em come a little further south. Yep. I agree.
I was looking at the topo on the, on the map and where the new drain field go and the,
and propose. Well, I, I'm not sure. I, I think it might be
possible, but if not, we, I'd at least wanna see like a letter from
someone saying that it's not possible to go further towards the barn.
I agree. Mm-hmm . I'll do that. Uh,
would a deferral, um, until that can be explored,
I think that's the answer. Uh, maybe the march meeting as what would that
be? Um, march 19th. You have march 19th. Uh,
february 19th or march 19th. March 19th, okay. Mm-hmm . Um,
madam chair, I believe you'll want to close the public hearing when that time comes.
my apologies. Um, well, or is anybody else have, would
anyone else like to speak? There's no one in that one.
that one in there? Okay. I'll now close the public hearing.
madam chair, I move that the commission defer consideration of conditional
use permit cu 2 0 2 5 dash 0 0 0 1 1.
application by jose carmen correa hanno and
anna isabel ramirez. Ohno to
march, february. March, uh,
march. Let's do march. March, march.
I'll second. Uh,
mr. Kimberly.
aye. Mr. Patek? Aye. Ms. Kowalski?
aye. Mr. Mclaughlin aye. The motion to defer to
the march 19th, 2026 planning commission meeting passes
on a, on a four oh vote.
thank you. Mm-hmm . Our third public hearing item tonight
is in district two and district three, rz
20 25 7. Application by s barbie cox
third requesting a proffer amendment to rezoning case rz 2006
26 project rose retreat to waive zoning ordinance
section 15 3 53 requiring right and
left turn lanes on two on 225.6
12 acres on four house road, approximately 0.9 miles west of
sandy hook road on tax map numbers 31 1 0 19 a
30 27 a 1 0 30 27
b 1, 31 1 19 31, 1 19
b and 31 19 d. The property is zoned residential
preservation rp with proffered conditions. The comprehensive plan
designates this area as rural enhancement area.
thank you, ms. Parker. Madam chair again for the record. My name's carrie
raglan and I'll be providing the staff presentation for this application.
as stated, this request is in both districts two and three. It is an application
for a proffer amendment to rezoning case rz 2006 26
for the purpose of securing a waiver from the county turn lane requirements.
the vicinity map on the left shows a subject area outlined in red, while
the aerial photo on the right indicates a subject property also outlined in red.
for a better reference, the parcel is located south of poorhouse road
about a mile east of route 5 22, which is sandy hook road.
the zoning map on the left demonstrates the property as the rp residential
preservation district and the adjacent properties as the a two agricultural
district. The comprehensive plan map on the right demonstrates the subject
property and adjacent properties all as rural enhancement area.
the property was approved for a rezoning in 2007 from
the a two agricultural district to the rp residential preservation
district for a 45 lot subdivision. A tentative plot
was approved by the planning commission in 2008, but expired in 2020
as no further action or permits were taken on the property. Staff understand
that the reason for no activity was primarily due to the timing of the
approval around the 2008 recession. In
2024, the county code requirements for access management changed,
requiring a left and right turn lane for the proposed development. The
development was not grandfathered into any previous code requirements due to inactivity.
today the developer must either install the turn lanes or receive
a waiver from the board of supervisors in the form of a proffer amendment.
the request before you tonight is to consider the proffer amendment to rezoning case
rz 2006 26. No changes are
proposed other than adding the 13th proffer, which is proffer m to request
the turn lane waivers. The new proffer requests a full waiver
from the left turn lane requirements and a variation from the right turn lane
requirements. The slide
shows the proffered concept plan. The image is quite busy, but
I'll point out the proposed developments shaded mostly in gray here,
which is two internal loops with 45 lots surrounded by
open space. And then the, uh, entrance proposed here on poorhouse
road
access management now requires that developments located on a collector
road as defined by the major thoroughfare plan with five lots
or more. Must provide a right turn lane. Similarly, developments
with a, with 10 lots or more on a collector road. Must provide left
turn lanes as poorhouse road is classified as a major collector
in the mtp poorhouse road is classified as a major collector. Thank you.
let's see. County code requires an auxiliary lane and turn tapers
for turn lanes. The applicant is proffering right turn taper into the development
as demonstrated in the image on the right, but it is not a full auxiliary
lane. Therefore, the request is for a waiver from both the left and
right turn lane full requirements.
the code further identifies five factors that the board should consider with the
waiver request. These include site distance, road alignment, and
grade changes, frequency of rear end crashes along the roadway
traffic volume, speed limit, and capacity analysis of
the receiving roadway.
to address these concerns, the applicant has provided a letter addressing the five factors
stating that the entrance location exceeds the vdot required site
distance along poorhouse road that no rear end collisions have occurred in
the past eight years. That the proposed development would generate an additional
534 trips per day, that the statutory
speed is 55 miles per hour. And that with
the addition of the proposed development poorhouse road, would be at approximately 12%
of the roadways overall capacity.
their letter further argues that there is not enough development developer
owned right of way to install the left turn lane pursuant to
the vdot design standards. Also submitted with the application
was a turn lane warrant analysis prepared by grove slate, which states
that a left turn lane is not required by vdot standards.
the slide provides a visual reference along poorhouse road at the approximate
site entrance showing both an eastbound and westbound view
reviewing the comprehensive plan. The subject property and all adjacent properties
are designated as rural enhancement. Some definitions are provided here
on the screen. The application is consistent with the comprehensive
plan.
a community meeting was held on november 12th, 2025. Four citizens
were in attendance along with board of supervisor member jonathan lyle and planning commissioner
martin dean. Questions were raised regarding the provided traffic
study for the development, the existing traffic at the intersection of
poorhouse road and route 5 22, secondary access for
the proposed development and timelines for construction
staff also answered questions regarding the rationale for the 2024
access management code changes and which other applications had
received the waiver since the code changes
on this screen is the precise new proffer language, which requests
the two waivers from the board of supervisors, but also proffers
the right turn taper as demonstrated on the approved conceptual
plan and proffer sees at the bottom of the screen for
reference as they reference each other.
madam chair, this concludes the staff presentation. Uh, the applicant
is here and does have a, um, a powerpoint slide
as well. Do you have any questions for me at this time?
any questions? Um, just so I understand it,
um, vdot is not recommending they
put in either turn lane correct. By their standards? Pardon
me? But the county does. Yes, sir. The
county has stricter code requirements, so there's really not
a choice. The code does provide provisions for
considering a waiver. Okay.
poor house road is 55. It is. Mm-hmm .
unposted speed statutory is 55. That's fast.
that's what what was the thinking behind the rationale of
the new, uh, ordinance for a right and left turn lane?
I believe it was generally for safety and there's some language in the code which, um,
calls out the reason for some of the auxiliary lanes. I included, um,
a snippet on one of the slides. I can bring that up, but it, it just generally for safety.
okay. Do we know what the site
distance in feet from that proposed entrance on
either side around approximately? Is that ever, that's
something that we generally see in the precise measurements with the plan of development. Okay.
um, so we don't have the opportunity to, so we're not even there engineer that at, at this time.
I believe that's something the applicant has considered, but there's no plan of
development at this time for staff to, um, confirm. But you did show
two photographs. Mm-hmm . Looking east and west. Yes, sir. I can pull those
up again. Yeah.
yeah. And I will note this is at the approximate
entrance location. I can't be certain. Sure. You know, a couple dozen feet one
way or the other. Mm-hmm .
you mentioned that they don't currently have right of ways for
the left full left turn lane. Yes, sir. But they do for a taper.
yes. And do you know if there's been an attempt to gain right of way?
I believe the applicant will discuss that at his presentation. And my recollection is,
um, he has asked and has gotten mixed answers.
it says in there there's an increases uh, traffic by
530 some cars. Is that right? Mm-hmm . Do you know the calculation
how they come up with that number? It's based on an ite count. So that essentially
there's a, a book that they use to generate the number of, um, traffic
expected for developments. And it's a, it's a standard calculation.
okay. For 49 lots, that would be an extra 534
daily trips for 45 lots. Yes ma'am. Or 45 lots they had stated 534.
yeah, roughly it's 10 trips per per house.
so more things than I do. I believe that
their traffic expert is here as well. You my specific questions leaving five
times, coming back five times with, you know, a family of how many,
so, okay.
so I guess the question is, is how much does a taper help versus
a full turn lane?
the code calls out the need for an auxiliary lane, um, in order to move traffic
off the road. So the, the, the taper
does allow for traffic to slowly turn in, but it doesn't provide a full auxiliary
lane for traffic to pass by. Thus, that would be the full lane. That would be the full auxiliary
lane. Turn lane. Mm-hmm . So partial versus
fall. Yes. Is there any, um,
thought on vdot putting any, um, signage, um,
around this entrance if the turn lanes are waived? Um,
that is not a discussion that we've had with vdot. Um, as vdot doesn't
require the turn lanes, I wouldn't imagine there would be a requirement for
any different signage, I thought.
any other questions? No, no, no. I'd just like to hear from the applicant. Thank you. Uh, would
the applicant like to come up and speak?
what let you do that
front back?
good evening, madam chair. My name is jeff geiger here on behalf of the applicant.
um, I appreciate the commission's, um, consideration of this,
uh, waiver request. Uh, I thank mr. Raglan for, uh, a good summary.
I'm gonna dive into the details just a little bit more touch on a couple things, uh,
that she mentioned. But my goal is to, um, dive in a little bit more on the details.
um, as she mentioned, uh, this case was approved, uh, oh roughly
about 20 years ago. Um, and in that, at that time,
um, the board had the foresight to say, you do need a
taper for that right turn lane. And we're here to say
we're happy to do that, no problem. We're just asking for permission
to move forward on the same basis that the board approved it 20 years ago.
um, this is a drawing, uh, it's a closeup of the intersection,
uh, that, uh, ms. Raglan showed you. Uh, it does show what
we are proposing and what the board approved 20 years ago. There
is a right turn taper. It's 150 feet long
so you have enough time for the car to move to begin its movement into
the taper and then be into the, in making the turn, uh, before
another car passes.
um, I believe the question was asked,
did we? Who, who did we talk to? What are we trying to do?
and in order to meet the vdot requirements, yes, ms.
raglin is correct, you have a higher
standard for providing a turn lane. It's just unfortunate
that vdot controls the roads. And so
vdot says, we would love for you to turn in, put in turn
lanes, but you need almost 800 feet
because it's not just the turn lanes, it the, it's the transition that you
have to achieve. Mm-hmm . So I put this slide together to show you
the length of land that is needed to achieve
two simple turn lanes and it's really the left turn lane.
now, we did speak to our neighbors on, on the other side
of poorhouse. The one neighbor has a lot of frontage.
he's willing to work with us no problem. Unfortunately that's not enough
and I'll get to that in a minute. The other three neighbors, uh, that
we spoke to, and we need lane from land from in order to finish the transition.
it's not the turn lane, it's just the transition that vdot requires. They
said, no. So that's why we are here today. They said, yes, we
be moving on.
now, I mentioned that there is one landowner, landowner on the other side that has
a lot more road frontage. He's willing to
help for the good of the county and the county's goals
and said, so we went to vdot and we said, hey, can we get, and this
is allowed, it's called the design waiver. Can we get a design waiver for
a different type of turn lane length and transition?
no our way or no way.
as much as we would like to be able to control what vdot does
and be able to assume some level of reasonableness,
it is unfortunate their process doesn't work that way.
so I'd like you to recognize we're not here just because we want to and
we're just trying to do it the easy way out. We asked, we asked again
to vdot and we're here because we can.
and as ms. Raglan mentioned, yes,
your zoning ordinance in 2024 did add a higher
standard. But when the board adopted this amendment
to the zoning ordinance, it realized that it couldn't happen every
time because you had other forces.
the government just couldn't dictate to vdot what would happen. The government
couldn't just dictate to landowners what would happen. And so they put
this process in place for a waiver.
as ms. Raglan mentioned, we do meet the requirements,
we will meet the site distance requirements. We, we have already looked. Ms.
raglan indicated that that's a later time. I wanna let you know, we've
looked at the site distance. We have no problem meeting the site distance requirements. And
I think that's an important point I would like you to consider. Even after
this waiver, we have to go and get the entrance permit
from vdot. And vdot will approve that entrance permit only
if it's safe. And so it's not just us coming
to the county and asking for this. There's then a second layer of approval
and checks via vdot. There have been no rear
end collusions. Why do we encourage turn lanes? It's safety.
it's safety about the through movement. Um, and there
is not, when you look at the history on this road, there is not
a rear end, um, situation occurring. You have
cars making left and right turn lanes on this road today, but
it's not a safety issue. Um,
traffic volume, uh, again, this is a traffic engineering question, but
it's too low to warrant the turn lanes. Speed limit is
55. Man, I wish I could convince vdot to lower speed limits. Uh, as you
all know they do a traffic study. The speed study is the only way to get the
traffic, the speed down. If you guys see black lines
across a road and they're two next to each other, drive slower , because
that speed has to come down on those when, uh, they're measuring. It's the
only way they'll lower the speed limit. It's wish we
could change it. Uh, and then the capacity analysis,
just wanna let you know, uh, the existing trips, our trips
are just 10% of the existing road capacity. There is a lot of space
between these cars on poor house, uh, that adding this
entrance does not present a safety problem.
um, as was mentioned, um, there is a history for granting
it. Uh, the most recent was a long river road. River road has an
a dt of over 4,000 trips a day. Um,
when we did our first analysis, um, poorhouse had 800 trips a
day staff pointed out to us, it had actually fallen to 640
trips a day. Um, so just wanted to let you know that.
and again, uh, in summary, um, we're here, uh,
to ask that, uh, we'd be allowed to move forward, uh, with what the board
previously approved, uh, which is just that right turn, uh, taper lane.
um, we are here to ask for the waiver that they thoughtfully
built into the zoning ordinance, uh, because there are gonna be times when
property owners aren't going to sell land in order to put in road improvements.
um, and we meet the requirements for the approval, uh, of the waiver.
uh, so on behalf of the applicant, um, I'd like to ask,
uh, that the planning commission recommend, um, approval of the
waiver request that is before you, I'd be glad to answer
any questions that the commission may have at this time.
a taper on a road. Mm-hmm . You're at 150
feet. Yes ma'am. Can you, is is that
a standard feet? Uh, I'm sorry, let me rephrase.
um, can it be more, can it be less or what's the, what's the
standard for a taper as far as the feet? Um, I've
done a taper at 50. I've done a taper at a hundred. I've done a taper at 150. I've
done a taper at 200. Um, so what we've done
is the standard that length wasn't specified. Okay. And we've maxed it out as
much as we can without hitting the next landowner.
okay. If I may show you one thing, um, I'd like to just,
just because you're asking, I'd like to just mm-hmm . Get it out there please. Um,
you can see here on the, I focused on the north side where we were asking
for land because that's where vdot wanted us to put the additional land
in. Mm-hmm . As part of our conversation with vida, we also asked could we expand
on the southern side of poorhouse. We have two constraints. One
is a cemetery we really don't wanna move. Impact the cemetery. Um, you can
see this small, um, square, it's labeled cemetery. Uh, and
then the, there is a slight curve in there. And as you guys may know,
vida has rules for everything and curves are have a rules too.
and so if we expand anything on the right hand side, we're all of a sudden outside of their
geometry curvature requirements mm-hmm . Um, and so they're not looking for us to
do it on that side. Um, where they want it is on the north side of poorhouse.
okay. Thank you. Other
questions?
any question? So even if you wanted to make it a 200 foot taper, you can't,
'cause you don't own the property to extend it into the 200. You're correct.
and if we approve the waiver, or if the board of supervisors approves the waiver,
you still have to go before vdot. Yes, sir. And they could deny that? Yes,
sir. Okay. Um, they could deny the entrance design. Yes, sir. Yeah. Alright.
okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, sir.
any discussion or, oh, I'm sorry. Yes, you're right.
thank you. Um, I will now open up the public comment
for this case. If anyone would like to come forward, please state your name and address
and I will again pause in case there is anyone from the overflow rooms. Spencer
warren.
mm-hmm .
excuse me. Hi, I'm, I'm spencer warren. I, um,
I own a property that's kind of adjacent to where, where
this entry is. Um, I don't really have like a, a proposed answer
or anything like that, but as far as like my concerned, I'm sorry, could you gimme your
address please? Yeah. 28 51 poorhouse road. Thank you. Yeah,
so it's, it's right next to the, to the entryway, but I'm set, my
house is set back far enough. Like I wouldn't even see it or anything like that, but, but I do have
general concerns about the road because it is just, I'd call
it a single lane country road. You know, it's, um, there's, there's
no center line. There's no shoulder. If you're, you're going 55
miles an hour, school buses go on the road. It's
not wide at all. So if you're going in opposing directions
as say a school bus, you have to slow down from
the 55 miles an hour. And if you're in a, a truck, pickup truck
or anything, like, you have to give way because the, the road
is just not wide. Um, I, I get that
there's been no accidents that it's, it's, it's low volume, but
also adding in 45 houses approximately
doubles the number of houses on the road and doubles the traffic
that's, that's on the road. So, you know, whether that's
safe or not, I'll leave it up to the board to, to decide. Um,
but yeah, those are, those are kind of my, my general, um,
concerns and just like, like for the board to, to consider those,
uh, with regards to whether or not attorney lane, I mean,
I think that, I think a taper on both sides is, would be probably ideal.
I don't know how an actual left hand turn lane would even look in, in that
spot in know, a full turn lane, but I think that the taper would
probably be the best deal, um, just given that
when you're going, you know, in opposing directions, you're, you got two
cars heading at 110 miles an hour at each other. Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Um,
yeah. So yeah, that's, that, that's kind of my, my
general, um, concern. There's, there's also a, a large tract
of land that's directly across the street from there. So who knows if that
could potentially be developed later on as well. Um, so
yeah. Those, those are my concerns for the board. Thank you. Mm-hmm. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.
would anyone else care to speak?
I will close the public comment period for the case. Um,
yeah, I, I share his concern. I know there are other tracks in this,
in that area that have been considered for development and, uh,
and I believe there are tracks being considered right now for
additional development. I feel like the road,
if we grant waivers here, how, you know, how do we then eventually
enforce our ordinance on turn lanes in the future?
um, I, I really am
inclined to not, uh,
waive our, our ordinance for this one. But,
so a taper is better than nothing. A taper is better than nothing. Yes. And
it's not as good as a full turn lane. Right. And I, I understand and the county wants
to enforce the turn lane. Yes. Uh, and I, I feel like the developers
are the only way we're gonna be, we can't get vdot to widen the road. The only, I
think the only thing we can do is, is expect the, the developers to
add, add safety to the road. So I guess the only, the
one thing I think about mm-hmm is that even
with the development, it's still under capacity. Um, indeed. Right now,
just because this one's approved doesn't mean the next one has to be
without a turn lane and proper, but it sets a precedent.
it does set a precedent. That's what I'm concerned about. Potentially,
not if the capacity has changed, but just my thoughts.
okay. Well, and I think a lot of that is if or when another
development, um, you know, this was approved back in
2007. I mean, we're talking about a completely different, almost 20 years
long time. Yeah. Um, but at the end of courthouse road, a poorhouse road, if
you make a a, a head south there, there was serenity trails
was considered right there near, and that, that would've been traffic onto this
road as well. Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . So there are, there's a, there's a move
to develop this area is my point. Mm-hmm . I,
I, I also share road concerns. I, I love, I love turn lanes.
we were actually, um, we, um,
for the river road, uh, development that, uh, our gentleman mm-hmm
. Um, referenced, we actually said, no, we do wanna a turn lane. They're safe. That's, that's, that's
a safe way of going. Um,
but I, we also can't be in charge of putting in a center lane and and
lowering the speed limit that's, that's not in our wheelhouse. Yeah. We can't do that either.
so I, I, it's a difficult situation. I, I acknowledge that
and I share that it's, it's not the one development, it's the four developments and
mm-hmm . You can't back up on number four when things suddenly are a problem and yeah.
yeah. Have the other, uh, entrances improved? Mm-hmm
. I've kind of observed that on hocket. It's, uh,
it's grown into, you know, quite a nice road in some spots. Mm-hmm . In some
spots and the same thing, fairground road, same thing, and nice spots, the safest places
on fairground road or is where there's a turn, where there's a development. Yeah. Oh,
and our board voted to change that recently. Mm-hmm .
I think we should enforce that.
and, alright, so
any other discussion? Would anyone like to make a motion?
um, sorry, is this a double
negative situation? ? Not if we
deny it, we're just denying the waiver,
the request for a waiver. So there I, I'll, I'll make
the motion based on the information in the staff report and from the public hearing, I move that
the commission recommend denial of the proper amendment. R 0 2 0 2 5 0 0 0 0 7
application by s barbie, cox ii on the grounds
that it is not in keeping with the public necessity and convenience,
general welfare and good zoning practices. I second.
all right. Mr. Dean. Aye. Mr. Mclaughlin?
aye. Ms. Kowalski aye. Mr. Patak
aye. Mr. Kimberly aye.
the motion to recommend denial passes on a five oh vote. This case is
tentatively scheduled to be heard by the board of supervisors on march 3rd, 2026.
it moves forward with a recommendation of denial from the planning commission.
okay. We have one more case before we
get started because we're gonna be here for a while. Um, we are gonna
take a five minute recess, get up, stretch your legs,
use the restroom if need be, and please, uh, come back in five. Thank you.
I think that was the right thing to do. Yes, but we have to, um, someone has to be there to
let us back in, but I'll go.
no, I think we had to do
good.
how you hey, put your hands on. Don't spell
on one second. Get a little, pick me up here at eight o'clock
at night.
okay.
I get grumpy after nine o'clock. Anybody?
right? Got like 12 people,
ladies and gentlemen, we'll be starting back up in one minute please.
oh, so there's more than one. Yeah.
here we go. That was,
there we go. I'm on. Doesn't sound like it. You are on,
um, our final case, um,
is going to begin here shortly if everyone can have a seat.
um, okay. Your turn.
our final public hearing item this evening is in district one cu 20 25 12
application by virginia sports park and training center ed gland requesting
a conditional use permit, cup for s***t shooting range or course
and other similar ranges or courses on an approximately 85 acre
portion of 372.967 acres on walton
road, approximately 0.4 miles north of three chop road
on tax map number 6 1 9 a and a portion of tax map
number 6 1 0 7 and 6 1 0 57 t.
the properties are zoned agricultural general a one and the cup is
required by county zoning ordinance section 15 1 0 2. The comprehensive plan
designates this area as rural enhancement area.
thank you ms. Parker. Good evening, madam chairwoman and members of the commission
for the record. My name is ben ellis. I am a planner with the county.
for you is an application by virginia sports park and training center at glin,
also known as vsp for a condition use permit for s***t shooting range
or course and similar ranges or courses. The property is located on approximately
85 acres on walton road in district one.
the map on the left shows the general vicinity of the property within the county.
the map on the right shows the property outlined in red and the property as well
as the surrounding properties exhibit a rural character
proposed use is found on the western portion of the property in this
general vicinity. Again, the proposed use is found
in the western portion of the property of the outline parcels.
the location of the proposed use is zoned a one agricultural
general, as is most of the larger parcel in much of the surrounding area.
located in pink are b one business general zoning districts and located
in purple are industrial zoning districts. These industrial zoning
districts correspond to the midpoint industrial park. The dark green
are rr rural residential zoning districts.
the comprehensive plan designates the area of the proposed use, which again is
the western portion of the property. Um, as rural enhancement
area go, the commercial, industrial and county
state institutional parcels collectively comprise the haydenville
crossroads, which is one of the county's rural crossroads. Rural crossroads
provide necessary goods and services to the surrounding community, but are not meant to accommodate
significant new growth as encouraged in other villages. To clarify,
the proposed use lies outside of this area.
the property is currently owned by lux stone corporation, a portion of which is being leased
to the applicant, virginia sports park and training center. The area of the proposed use is
lovely, is roughly outlined in the picture.
the property is on the gland county louisa line, which
is approximately right along here.
lock stone owns the north portion of the property in louisa, which is approximately 250
acres in size. It is not part of this application.
located right next to the property is also interstate 64.
located right here, there
is a cell tower permitted under cu 19 99 3
located on the larger of the three parcels just out of frame and therefore
not in the area of the proposed use. Otherwise, the property
is vacant. The property appears to have been logged in the recent
past. A logging road can generally be seen here.
located on the property is deep creek, which flows into the south ana river, which is a tributary
of the york river. The red highlight area is the fema
100 year flood hazard area. Limited structures are permitted in
this area. I don't see any red on my screen.
it is very faint. Um, thank you. Yes,
as indicated by the us fish and wildlife service, as well as the by the applicant,
there may be wetlands on the property largely around the branch of
this creek.
in 1997, lux stone was approved for a quarry on the main parcel of the
property. The extraction area would be located on the other side of deep creek from
the proposed use. The sole permitted access point for the quarry is
old for fredericksburg road. One of the over overburdened
placement locations would be located where the applicant's proposed use would be.
lux stone indicated that they have no current plans to begin operations on
the site. Staff would like to especially point out that lux stone is
permitted to blast on the property from the hours of 9:30 am to 3:30 pm
monday through friday. Lux stone does not have a quarry permit
for their property in louisa county.
staff would also like to point out that as an approved use, lux stone could submit
plans to the county at any time. These plans, these plan reviews would
be administrative, meaning that as long as lux stone shows compliance with the county's
laws, the county would be obligated to approve the plans.
I'm so sorry. Um,
this is a, a site plan that was provided by lux stone, um, associated with
their poor permit.
all right, ben, while you're there. Uh, so the red line that I see, that's the county b
border, the county line before it was delineated,
um, uh, with louis, we, um, a couple years ago,
uh, delineated, uh, more precisely the county line between louisa and guch line.
okay. That's what I mean. Yeah, it's the, that's the gland, louisa county line and
the colored areas to the south of that are all, uh,
the gland mining activities that have been approved. Yes, sir. Thank
you.
the applicant's proposing a sporting clays course, which will also have s***t shooting
five stand and trap shooting. In addition to the shooting sports, the
applicant is proposing indoor and outdoor archery, including 3d archery.
there would also be a clubhouse and maintenance and accessory buildings, a rendering
of the clubhouse. What, uh, is shown on the right, uh, this
rendering, uh, is conceptual. It may or may not look
like this in the future.
s***t shooting is typically made up of eight different shooting positions oriented in the same direction.
in an arc where the targets are thrown from the high house on the left
and a low house on the right
targets can be shot as singles or as pairs in a predetermined order.
five stand consists of five lined up stations in which the sh
which have targets thrown, placed, which have target throwers placed
randomly out in front of the shooters.
trap shooting consists of a trap house in the middle of the field from where the
targets are launched. Can I ask a quick question? Yes, sir. So
as you've depicted it here, this shooting is from ground level. Is that,
is that accurate or are the yes, some shooters sometimes elevated.
um, for the uses I have shown you so far,
yes. They're typically at ground level. Thank you.
stations for multiple shooters are found in an arc behind the trap house. W trap
adds variation to the launch angle and direction to increase difficulty.
the bulk of the property would comprise of a sporting clays course.
unlike the, unlike other shotgun sports, sporting clays are not thrown from
standardized positions. This is meant to mimic the spontaneity of animals in the
wild. It is usually comprised of multiple stations, each
throwing at a different angle and direction that take advantage
of the natural features of the land. As such, it can be likened
to a golf course. And, uh, mr. Kimberly to follow on your question,
um, thank you. From personal experience, you, and as you can see in the illustration, I do see, I do
see them here. They can be elevated. Yes.
before you is page one of the applicant's conceptual plan, the general area of
the sporting clay course and other shotgun stations is found here.
can I ask another question? I'm sorry to interrupt you, but, uh, go ahead. Uh, the
boundary shown here on the western part is different than
what was shown in the, some of the previous, uh, charts.
the, it, it shows a, a necking down in a, in a, in a,
in a curve back up to, to the north,
which is the true, um, boundary of their lease area.
is this it or is what? It was several charts back.
um, if you're referencing the area shown where
the, I had the fema fema of 100 year foot hazard area. That's approximation by
staff just to demonstrate the, um, hydrological features of
the property. So this is, uh, the, with the, this
is what the applicant has submitted, um, to demonstrate where their
use will be occurring. Okay, thanks.
the area for the clubhouse archery and parking is found in this corner.
walton road is right here. The applicant is
showing five stand s***t and trap shooting right here
along the north and south edges of the property are the sporting clay stations
here and here
and those are the elevated. They could be. They could be. Okay.
the stripe coloring shows the potential range of up to 100 yards.
they would be accessed by an internal access road shown along here.
vegetative buffers are shown along the edge of the property boundaries. That's the
green along the edge,
along the northern property line shown in the hatch pattern are proposed berms
located here, located here, and located here.
there are only shown on the northern property line where, where there is
limited existing vegetation. There would also be gaps in the berms to allow
for drainage. Uh, currently proposed here and here.
the light green in the middle of the property is the engineer's preliminary analysis of wetlands.
this page of the concept plan shows the first phase of the entrance area,
uh, shown are the vegetative buffers, uh,
a gravel parking lot, well area, a septic
drain field, storm water basin, um, access
road, as well as, uh, a temporary
temporary trailer and temporary toilets.
this page shows what the area would look like fully developed. Uh, we have
a more developed parking area. Uh, the vegetative buffers are remaining.
storm water basin remains. The main building clubhouse
area would be there. Indoor archery, outdoor archery, I
believe this is a maintenance building.
the applicant has requested permission to operate unrestricted from 8:00 am to
dusk seven days a week. The a staff has proposed
limiting the discharging of firearms between the hours of 9:00 am to
sunset monday through saturday. Staff propose these changes
for a few reasons. First sunset is a defined specific period of
the day. Dusk is a period of time. Additionally, in
response to community concerns about noise, staff has proposed limiting shooting
entirely on sunday. The applicant indicates that they expect 20
to 25 guests on a given weekday,
40 to 70 guests on a weekend, and 85 to 125
guests for events. The applicant's also
indicate that they will eventually be three to four full-time employees
on the property in addition to several part-time employees.
as part of business operations, the applicant will also host tournaments and events related
to the shooting course. The applicant has asked for no restrictions for tournaments
and events. Staff has proposed a limitation of 12 tournaments per year.
events could include fundraising, corporate, or educational events.
the image on the right was produced by staff to illustrate, illustrate what a 300 yard
shot fall zone would be at each proposed station. Documents from these
national ski shooting association and the boy scouts of america require a 300
yard shot fall zone. As a part of course, design for safety,
this is to ensure that the shot has enough room to safely land without injuring
any persons or property. Alright, just to be clear,
can you back up, please? It looks to me, do I understand this correctly, that
there are two, uh, well, certainly one that has overlap, um,
and the one next to it almost,
do you, do you see what I'm talking about? Um, can you point to them please? Potentially
that one right there. Well, the next one over to the left, it has, it
looks like it is under the 300 yard,
um, arc of, of
one of the other shooting stations. I'm guessing that's one of the, uh, stationary
stations. Uh, yes. Staff. And, and the, uh, the one to
the, just to the east of that is also very close to the arc
of, I believe the other stationary shooting position.
uh, is that, do I read that correctly? Yes. Okay. Uh,
this was generated by staff using cad software, I believe, um, based
on the conceptual plan submitted by the applicant on the right. Okay, thank
you. Um, it is to the best of staff's ability. Alright.
the site of the shooting course is located largely to the west of deep creek with
the side stream running through the middle of the 85 acres, forming a quasi
basin. It is along these side streams where there are
is the greatest potential for wetlands. The stations would be along,
would be along the edge of the property, along higher elevation and fire towards the center of
the property. Shotgun ammunition. The shot is often made of lead.
lead can be harmful to humans and other animals and cause negative health effects.
lead is naturally occurring and it may move from the soil to
groundwater depending on the type of lead compound and the characteristics of the soil.
the ammunition produced, which is not made of lead. Excuse me. There is ammunition
produced, which is not made of lead. This is often used for waterfowl hunting as lead
has been banned from the use in waterfowl hunting nationwide since
1991 due to concerns about lead entering the ecosystem
and food chain. Alternate shot types include
steel, bismuth, tin and tungsten, as well as others, including combinations
of different metals. The applicant states that they will develop and adhere to an environmental
stewardship plan or esp and esp is a long-term management
plan to conserve natural resources. Staff
proposed a condition requiring esp be submitted before plan of development
approval.
noises among the greatest impacts of this proposal. As stated, the applicant is
proposing earth and berms on the northern property line and 50 feet vegetative
buffers around the property as a mitigation effort. I will discuss noise
further in a later slide.
lighting has also been a concern among the community. The county's zoning code
regulates all outdoor lighting for commercial developments. All commercial outdoor
lighting in the county is required to be dark sky compliant. All outdoor
lighting for the proposal would be subject to these zoning code provisions.
internal access roads will at a minimum need to be constructed to
provide access to golf carts or other four vehicle all terrain vehicles
in order to provide public safety to in response, um, in
order to provide public safety to respond in case of an emergency. This
would be typical for this type of development as many sporting clay courses operate with golf
carts or other cle similar vehicles.
the applicant held a community meeting on october 30th in this room, approximately
170 citizens attended. The applicant explained the proposal
and discussion included traffic improvements on walton road, operating
hours, location on the property, lighting impact on property
values, sound and noise, impact of lead safety, and
the notification of red residence. Comment
cards indicate 12 people in support nine were neutral and 12 were
in opposition at that meeting. An undetermined number of others verbally
expressed either opposition or support at the meeting.
in response to outstanding community concerns, the applicant held a second community
meeting on december 9th at 50 61 broad street
road attendee. There are approximately 54 citizens in
attendance. The applicant explained their proposal and discussed
noise reduction strategies, impact of lead light pollution,
traffic concerns, and property values.
questions and comment from the public include included traffic, the organization's
5 0 1 c3 status, the availability, availability of the
facility to school aged youth operating hours, especially in regard
to neighbors working night shifts, noise and sound,
the add of the application submittal, public availability
of the documents, noise studies, alternative sites,
a decommissioning plan, coordination with louisa county,
gland county noise ordinance, litter on the roadway, the selling of
concessions impact on, uh, businesses, direction
of traffic, proximity to neighbors, comparisons between other shooting
sites and the proposed site, the applicant's commitment to noise
testing and the number of tournaments most
citizens express concern with the proposal.
the county's 2035 comprehensive plan establishes a framework for growth and development.
the property is located in one of the county's rural enhancement areas.
rural enhancement areas include most of the county not already included in a designated growth
area or major village. Rural enhancement areas exhibit a rural character
with low density residential agricultural forest, or other uses which
are not planned for public or central utilities. Residential
uses should include a significant amount of open space, limit the amount
of grading in native plant removal, and create minimal
visual and other impacts the areas of the county play.
these areas of the county play a significant role in the rural character of the
community and should be protected from urban sprawl.
staff has to determined that this, that this use could be appropriate
for the rural enhancement areas. This, these proposed use
would be in compliance with the comprehensive plan
staff states, sorry. However, staff does not have enough information to
fully determine whether the proposed use sufficiently mitigates its impacts on
the neighboring properties.
it should be noted that the 2035 conference of plan includes many
policies used as strategies for implementation. Two of these are found below
policy to protect residential areas from incompatible uses and
a policy to ensure compatibility with neighboring uses involving
noise screening and lighting.
at this time, a number of outstanding concerns remain. I will address
these individually on the falling slides.
the public has expressed concern with lead discharge on the site. The
proposed use entails lead shot, which could affect wetlands and floodplain on the
property and impact water quality of runoff leaving the property as
well as filtering down to the aqui fire. Staff is unable to
comment on the appropriate mitigation matters as the applicant has not provided supplement
information or a finalized environmental stewardship plan for review.
staff county staff also lacks the technical capacity to determine the
efficacy of the lead mitigation practices.
the applicant is proposing hours of operation up to seven days a week. Staff has
proposed more limited hours within the conditions to help mitigate potential impacts of
near continuous operations on neighboring properties. At this
time, the applicant has not agreed to these limits. The applicant has
specifically ob objected to not being able to shoot on sundays as they believe
it'll be detrimental to their business operations. Staff is open to
alternative hours of operation for the gun range, but we do not think that
seven days a week is appropriate. In
response, the applicant has indicated that they could close the course to the public on mondays.
staff does not consider this to be any different than to being open to the public
staff
at at the time that that staff had finalized our staff report. The
applicant had not submitted a noise impact study. The
impact of nuisance noise on nearby residential properties has been
a primary concern raised at community meetings. Staff
was provided with a sound study yesterday at noon. Having received
this sound study with such short notice, staff is not able to assess the potential impacts
of noise on neighboring properties. Additionally,
on june 12th, oh, sorry, july, I am so sorry. On january 12th,
the applicant did perform an onsite demonstration. In attendance were
supervisors, lyle boers, spoon, hower, and christie, as well as commissioners
kimberly and dean.
some community members have had questions regarding the goland county noise ordinance.
I would like to remind the planning commission that the goland county noise ordinance does
not apply to commercial or business activity and does not apply to
firearms. Any regulation of the sound or noise from
this application must be done as part of the conditions if approved.
this slide shows page two of the concept plan. The yellow circle shows a,
within the yellow circle show, there is a temporary trailer and portable
toilets which are non-compliant with the county code.
the applicant's in the applicant's initial lease with lux stone was for
only 75 acres of the property. However, the concept plan submitted showed
85 acres. As such, staff had concerns about the planning commission
and the board of supervisors acting on an application in which the applicant
may not have had the proper legal authority. The county
received a revised lease agreement in an amended application yesterday. Unfortunately,
the revised boundaries of the lease shown on the screen to the right does
not appear to comprise the whole of the proposed shooting facility.
the apparent discrepancy is shown in the dashed red
outline. However, all improvements on the conceptual
plan can be built on the leased premises.
as such, this concern remains outstanding.
the applicant is proposing to hold tournaments and special events on the property.
although specific information regarding the frequency scale and other activities
has not been provided. Staff has proposed a condition to limit the number of tournaments
to 12 per year. Given the incomplete information.
staff has proposed 19 conditions for this use, I will read them in
a moment.
number one, use a s***t shooting range including a sporting clays course or
other similar ranges or courses including but not limited to indoor
and outdoor archery and uses such as concessions in the sale of ammunition may
be operated on the property. This is cup activity
subject to these conditions. Number two, required approvals.
the cup activity is not permitted to begun begin until a plan
of development pod is approved. The applicant has installed
all pod improvements and the pod improvements have been approved by the county and
the applicant has obtained any other approvals that may be required by
any other departments such as a building inspection, certificate of occupancy, or
a health department approval, as well as any state and federal permits
phasing the applicant must provide a phasing plan at the time of plan
of development. The cup activity may be designed and built
in phases, provided that the first phase includes the installation of a
permanent structure and an approved well and septic system for the permitt
structure. The first phase must also include the required burns and buffers conditions. 13 and
14. Each phase must comply with all federal, state, and
local statutes, ordinances, and regulations.
number four, concept plan. The areas and improvements for cup
activity shall generally conform to the concept plan attached as exhibit a prepared by
hewitt solutions entitled haydenville shooting facility and dated november 24th, 2025.
staff does have a comment about this condition. The concept plan shows
uses that are not permitted as permit structures, portable toilets and temporary trailers.
however, it is necessary to condition the concept plan with this use because it
is the only means by which to restrict the use to the 85 acres. As
shown on the plan, a revised plan should be submitted that meets code
requirements and shows the boundaries within the leasing area with buck stone.
number five shot fall zone. Each shooting station shall have a shot fall zone
of least 300 yards down range extended in all shooting. That
will be located entirely within the cup activity area. No
discharge or shot is allowed to land outside of the cup activity area.
number six, firearms only shotguns may be discharged on the
property. Shotguns must be 12 gauge or smaller and board diameter.
number seven, shotgun ammunition. No shot size larger
than seven and a half is allowed. All ammunition sold on site must be
used on site number eight hours of operation. Firearms
may only be discharged between 9:00 am and sunset monday through saturday.
no firearms may be discharged on sundays.
number nine, parking a minimum of 17 parking spaces or more if
required by the pod serving. The cup activity area shall be provided and
maintained. If the applicant is
pursuing a phase development and plans to host tournaments and events pursuant to
condition 15 b, then an overflow parking area is required
and must be de designated on the pod. Parking
on walton road is prohibited at the request of the zoning administrator. No parking signs
must be installed along the road in accordance with the virginia department transportation regulations.
number 10, parking a paving parking waiver pursuant
to zoning ordinance section 15 dash 316. A waiver is granted
to the requirement that non handicapped parking areas must be paved.
non handicapped parking areas must be, may be must
be gravel areas for handicap parking must be paved.
number 11, internal access road. Internal access to
parking areas and facilities for cup activity will be as generally shown
in the in exhibit a and must be constructed and maintained in a manner
satisfactory to both gland fire rescue and the go and the county.
the development, sorry, the department of community development
number 12. Environment stewardship plan. An environmental stewardship
plan must be submitted to the department of planning and zoning before approval of
a plan of development. The environmental stewardship plan must describe how the
applicant will implement best management practices on site.
number 13, berms a series of vegetated earth
and berms. A minimum of eight feet and height must be provided and maintained in the areas
as shown on the concept plan. The minimum of eight feet of height is
measured to the top of the burn earth and burn prior to the planting above the
location of the shooting stations. The burn must be planted with multi
rows of staggered evergreen trees planted six feet on center.
if any of the trees referred to in this condition should die, be cut or be destroyed, it
must be replaced in 120 days.
number 14, buffers. A vegetative buffer of a minimum of
50 feet must be preserved around the perimeter as shown on
the concept plan where no vegetation is present. 50 feet
wide, multi rows of evergreen trees must be planted and maintained.
these evergreen trees must be a minimum of six feet and height at the time of planting
and must be planted six feet on center. If any
of these trees referred in this condition should die, be destroyed, or be cut, it must
be replaced in 120 days. Number
15, tournaments, fundraising, corporate and other events.
15 a tournaments and events as part of the cup activity are
permitted on the property. 15 b, the number of tournaments
may not exceed more than 12 in a calendar year.
15 c for any event or tournament where
the number of attendees exceed the maximum capacity of the site as determined
during pod review, the organizer must provide an event plan a minimum
of 60 days before the event date to the zoning administrator.
furthermore, to ensure that the plan meets local state regulations, that plan must
include at minimum a site plan, details on fire
protection and equipment, what type of security will be present for onsite
for the event, a list of temporary structures that will be used for the event,
what type of food services will be used, and where the temporary bathrooms and
hand washing stations will be located, where parking will be located
and how traffic will be managed. The zoning administrator
will route the plan to fire rescue sheriff building inspections,
virginia department of health, and the virginia department of transportation for approval. An event must
be canceled if not approved by all departments at least two weeks in advance
of the date of the event.
15 d alternatively to 15 c, the property may
be de designed for the cup activity for a minimum daily
capacity of a minimum of 125 people. An improved
pod design for this capacity with all necessary improvements constructed
is required before any tournament or event is held. The maximum
capacity will be the lesser of the approved stic capacity or parking
capacity, but this condition does not limit any other governmental agent, department
or agency from requiring an occupancy limitation.
15 ea special event permit is required for any organized gathering
of 250 more or people at a given time for the
purposes of listening to or participating in entertainment or 250
more people when alcohol beverages will be permitted, possessed, or
consumed. Uh, this comes directly from the gland county code
number 16 annual notice annually, a schedule of
cup activity events including dates, times, and estimated attendance shall
be submitted to the zoning administrator and the schedule shall be
revised and updated monthly as events are added, removed or revised. Number
17, no trespassing in order to notify individuals of the property's boundaries.
no trespassing signs must be posted, posted, and maintained along
all boundaries with adjacent properties. These signs shall warn the in
the individual of an active shooting range.
number 18, compliance. All development and use of the property shall comply
with all federal, state and local statutes, ordinances, and regulations.
and number 19 is the county's standard transfer and lease language.
at this time, I'll be happy to answer any questions from the commission.
uh, ben, um, you had a, uh,
uh, some limitations on alcohol use when there's a a
an event, is there normally alcohol gonna be permitted
on, on a nor in normal activities in this?
um, I believe the applicant would like to be able to serve alcohol as a
part of, uh, corporate or, uh, events of the property.
um, alcohol
shooting under the influence would not be permitted.
how can that be?
ultimately, that would be up to the applicant and the property owner to regulate, um, the county,
you know, would enforce any violations that they were made aware of.
okay. Uh,
condition 10, if you would like to back up a little bit. I just have a quick question about
that one. It was about a parking, uh, uh, per surface conditions.
uh, you said that non handicapped parking
must be gravel or is that just a may be gravel. Um,
get there areas for handicapped parking
must be paved. If I misspoke, that's no non handicapped and, and it's
condition 10? Yes. Uh, must be gravel. I believe that's, uh, to
prevent, uh, just dirt parking and then something that turns into mud, but it could be,
could be paved as well. Um, the applicant has asked for the parking waiver.
um, the paving is the normal requirement for parking in the county, but the county does
pursuant to section 15. All right. So it must be at least gravel,
I guess is yes. What that means. All right.
um,
ben, just a question on seven. All ammunition sold on site must
be used on site. What's the thought behind that? Uh, that it does not turn into
a retail store. Okay. Thank you. But they will
permit shot, uh, uh, ammunition not sold on
site to be used on site, um, correct
that, that, that's correct. Right. You can bring your own ammunition in provided that is no
larger than seven and a half. And is that the only restriction that's gonna be placed on the ammunition?
that is the only restriction on ammunition currently proposed.
all right. Uh, going to condition number three, please.
uh, non-compliant structures.
does this go back to one of the, uh, concerns about
the portable toilets and, um, the, the,
uh, trailer or whatever they were proposing of having,
um, I'm sorry, could you repeat that question? Yeah. Um, the non-compliant
structures, that was one of your concerns yes. Of staff concerns?
yes. Um, is that, um,
because you're saying you want a installation of a permanent structure and
those are not considered, even the trailer is not considered a permanent structure. Correct.
um, county code requires that
structures that are used for occupancy are permit structures. Um,
a temporary trailer could be used, but only in regard, uh,
to ongoing construction. Uh, that is not what the applicant
has shown on page two of the concept plan, which is, uh,
the purpose of staff's comment here.
okay. Um,
uh, one more question. The access roads, um, to get to
these stands, um, correct me if I'm wrong, but
are those wide enough for a golf cart or
wide enough in case there's an accident that fire and rescue can get back there?
it'll be up, uh, exact specifications would be determined
at plaintiff development review, which would include the fire and rescue department as well as
planning and zoning. Okay. But as it's proposed,
is it little trails with golf
cart access only or is it wide enough that if there is something
that has happened that fire and rescue could get back, or is that still unknown until
plan of development? Um, the applicant has shown
staff, uh, examples of other, uh, tra
paths used in other operations, but I'll let the applicant speak more on that
matter. Thank you.
then there is, um, a difference in restrictions contemplated
between tournaments and events, but no definition
of either of those. What would be considered a tournament versus
an event? Yes, that
is a fair question. Um, certainly
fundraising events, um, and corporate events. Uh, you know,
and educational events would be to teach, uh, you know, uh, children
how to shoot, but that might not be competitive shooting where a tournament would be competitive
shooting. Um, this may be an opportunity to provide further clarification
between tournaments and events. Yeah, most of the, uh, corporate
team building retreats I've been to have been competition, so yes. That's why
I ask, been in reference to condition
18.
would that also constitute the, um, environmental stewardship
and lead mitigation?
um, the environmental
stewardship plan is not a required,
uh, beyond staff requiring it. Um,
if you are, if you're
asking if an environmental stewardship plan would be required by state or federal statutes and regulations,
I'm not aware that it is. Um, if there are applicable
d department of environmental quality laws and regulations, the applicant
would be required to follow them. To my knowledge, an environmental stewardship plan
is not one of those regulations or requirements. Okay.
this sound study that was, um, provided yesterday, yes.
um, how does staff, um, propose looking at that? Will they look at it
just an internal or will we seek out outside, in all likelihood,
we will have to seek, um, outside counsel or consultants.
okay. So at the moment though, you have no way to
evaluate that sound study. You have not had a chance to evaluate it
yet? Staff has not had a chance to evaluate it yet. Um,
and staff may not have the technical capacity to analysis analyze
it. Okay.
berms, um, yes. Eight foot above what
, um, the location of the shooting station. Uh,
so the top of the berm, I was, sorry, I was having a little trouble reading
the language. Eight foot above
the highest what, uh, nearby.
anyway, that's, there's a lot of where the level of shooter is. That's
what I'm, yeah. Where the gun or, you know, do, how far out do
you go if there's a, anyway, this is,
um, yes. The applicant's
conceptual plan does include language, um, with, I
believe it'd be within a thousand feet of the shooting station. Oh, within a thousand feet. Okay.
so it has to be higher, eight feet higher than than
a, the, a a any a shooting station within a thousand feet?
um, uh, let me clarify. Let me double check that real quick.
or I mean, I guess as it's written, you could interpret that as all sh it has to be, I
mean, I realize this is, the terrain here is kind of like a bowl in there talking about berms on the
north side. And so, sorry, I, I must correct that it is 100
yards, which is not one thou 1000 feet.
okay.
alright. Thank you. On the berms again,
has the applicant provided any validation that those berms would accomplish
sound mitigation? Um, if they have, staff
has not had time to review it. Okay. And I don't believe there's anything mentioned
in the sound study for that. They just, uh, the sound study, I think just
used existing terrain. Thank
you. Mm-hmm . So, um, regarding
the cup, you've got a line here that says that there's no
cup approval without a total pod well, no cup
activity, uh, ccp activity, that's, uh, a fancy way to say that they
can't, uh, begin shooting until they have an approved pod in some form.
okay. Is there any expiration date on this or
any staff has not proposed an expiration date. Okay.
and the thinking behind that staff
does not know, uh, does not have a good idea of when the applicant may get
up and running and, um, we
would hate for them to come back in, say, five years and, um,
do this process again without making significant pro uh,
progress in their business operations. Um, that
you say there's no quarry permitting, right? It's not permitted
for cory activity right now. Uh, but if they were to request
it, cory activity would have to be approved. Um,
is that, what did I read that right? The quarry permit? Um, well,
lux stone is the landlord of the property mm-hmm . And as such, they could
presumably terminate the lease agreement with, um,
the applicant here. Right. Um, their quarry permit remains valid.
um, and if approved, this would also be valid and they would have
a, you know, have the option of which ones they'd wanna pursue at, at right. When,
you know, at either time. Um, if they did both
at the same time, presumably that overburden area would, would
be an issue. Um, I believe what you're
asking is that there's an active quarry permit in gland county,
not in louisa. I think , no, I, I guess what I was asking is if we disapprove
this, what, and, and lux stone wants to
do quarrying activity, um, is that better for the residents or is it better
for the residents to lock up the property with this? Oh, I see. That's, that's kind of where I was headed
with that question. Uh, I'm
assuming that lux stone wouldn't be able, maybe they, maybe they can break
the lease early, but, um,
yeah. Um, I would like to add, uh, one thing, backtrack a little bit.
um, I must apologize. We originally had a com or a condition
that addressed alcohol and it appears to have been, uh, deleted
in the number of revisions these conditions have, um, been, have
gone through as such. Um, it does not appear that there would
be restriction on alcohol, um, as far as the
county's conditions would go. Um, so any,
um hmm. Yeah, there's no current county, so that's a state,
that's a state, probably a state regulated
thing anyway. Right. That's what I would think is they would have to provide a, uh,
a how an a bc license or something like that if they were gonna sell alcohol there.
um, so it's probably not our point at all, our issue
at all. Don't they have to anyway, from the size of it? Yeah, probably. So I would say
it's not really our, um, for the sale of
alcohol, you, I, I believe an a bc
license would be required. I'm not sure what that, that's the, what the applicant is proposing. I
think it would just, you know, after your corporate event of
shooting on the range, you know, you have a couple beers, um, hopefully just
to 'cause somebody, you know, people need to drive home, but mm-hmm . Um,
but I can also let the applicant speak to that. Okay. Yeah, I'm, I'm just thinking this is not something
we would regulate no. As a commission. So,
hey, um, can you go back to the, um, the,
the least area with the, uh, the red dotted lines that you had
on, on one of your early slides? Could you, could you do that please?
because it looks to me like you, you, the, the
shot zone area, uh, uh, the shot fall area, if
they don't have that red, uh, they're gonna, they're gonna have to
redo, especially if you spread out to three thou, 300 yards
as opposed to it's even gonna pick up this, uh, bottom one or two,
uh, shooting positions here on the south side. Um,
it looks to me like they extended the 10 acres out to the
east rather than, uh, filling in that red corner
area. So that looks like a problem to me. Okay.
thank you. Mm-hmm .
do we have any other questions for vince? Yeah, let me ask you, let me ask another quick one. Lighting
must comply, dark sky must be dark sky compliant. Can you explain that a little bit?
uh, yes. So generally, um, all light fixtures must, um,
light is not allowed to emulate, uh, up, up must be shielded
down. Uh, could probably go laterally, but, or down, but
cannot, the light cannot be emitted upwards. All right. And they are,
you're proposing that they, they stopped shooting at sunset, which is yes. 30
minutes before, uh, civil twilight, I suppose. Yes. Uh,
so it, I'm not sure what activities would be
going on at night there anyway. Yeah. Yes. Okay. Okay.
is the applicant proposing this to be locked gated? Um, once hours
of operation are over, uh, I will have to defer that to the applicant,
but there is no requirement for fencing all the way around. Simply no trespassing
signs is what I staff has not proposed a fencing requirement. Okay.
any other questions? Mm. Okay. Thank you. Thanks, ben. Thank
you. Thank you. Thanks, ben. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, would the applicant like to speak
forward backwards? Do you wanna point against the, um, pointer button?
thank you. Appreciate it. Good evening, adam chair and the,
uh, members of the, uh, planning, planning commission. Thank you for, uh, staying
late to hear this, uh, the case tonight. First of all, I'd
just like to set the record straight very quickly, um, on a couple of, um,
uh, issues. Excuse me real quick. Could you provide your name, please? Uh, my apologies. My name is nan
hamedi. I am the, uh, director of, uh, virginia sports park.
um, virginia sports park, uh, referred to as vsp
is not a gun range. We are a sporting clay and archery sports park. There's
a vast difference. There will be no rifles or pistols allowed on this
sports park, just for clarity, right. We are not developers.
vsp consists of philanthropists who have no financial gain from this project.
we only wish to create a wonderful opportunity for our youth that generations
after generations will enjoy it. After the meetings
and also discussing with staff, uh, and, and, and the community, uh, certain,
uh, concerns were raised. I want to provide a quick, uh, uh, summary
of those environmental, um, vsp is required
to have an environmental stewardship plan, which addresses monitoring, lead
mitigation and remediation. Can I ask you real quickly,
who requires that? That's part of our lease with lux stone. Okay.
thank you. Thank you. Um, and which will be
part of our ongoing activity. This the, the esp. Okay.
um, vsp shall follow all state and federal regulations. Dealing
with lead traffic was the other issue. A county
mandated traffic impact analysis was conducted by an independent engineering
firm. The county has accepted the findings of dimension tia
property values. This is a very subjective matter and ride,
and the rides in the market trends claim is without merit and
beyond the control of all present. Here, noise
seems to be the biggest concern in this particular case. We
have conducted three variations of tests. All of them concluded the same.
very low levels of sound levels are within lower range and very acceptable.
a professional sound in this, in sound study indicates such
a live demonstration was performed on monday, january 12th, 2026.
a total of 150 rounds were discharged in 60 minutes.
in the audience were four county supervisors, two planning commissioners, county administrator,
local residents, a supervisor from louisa county and numerous
staff members. County was advised to use a decibel measuring device to
evaluate noise at neighbor's homes inside and out. We
hope that those in presence were able to witness a witness how
minimal the sound presence actually was, and they utilized a sound measuring
device. Our professional sound study reveals the same
at this time, I will ask acoustic expert to address
the panel about the findings of that test. Mr. Paul thomas.
good. Good evening everyone. My name's paul thomas. I'm
with applied laboratory services. We are a third party independent
firm out of norfolk, virginia. Um, we conducted
a noise study at the facility on january 8th.
it included five, uh, noise dosimeters that
were set up on the property at various distances. Those
distances, um, ranged from, um,
50 feet behind the active shooters, um,
all the way out to 285 to
740 feet. Sampling was done in a triangular
pattern so that we could try and capture, um,
a true analysis of the noise being exhibited.
um, those results, um,
basically we conducted sampling for a two hour period
while active shooting was going on at clay targets, um,
approximately 150 rounds were shot during that period.
uh, the reason why we did the two hours of sampling
was, uh, to compare to a normal,
uh, event that would occur there. Um, normally those events would
occur in a two hour period, was our understanding. Um, during
this period, uh, we recorded the, uh, measurements.
um, decibel readings for an eight hour period
ranged from, um, 22.1 decibels,
uh, to 52.4 decibels.
the, uh, highest reading was collected 50
feet behind the shooters. Um, the,
the furthest, uh, decimeter was set 740
feet at the property line near the nearest resident.
um, the highest level on that for an eight hour average
was 36.8 decibels. The
osha standards associated with noise is set
at 85 decibels. Anything exceeding 85 decibels
under the regulation requires hearing protection
and noise mitigation. Um, based on our testing
results, we feel that, uh,
there is not, um,
any noise that is going to exceed those regulations. There are no
federal standards on regulations. They are,
uh, the, the federal regulat, the federal hearing conservation
programs basically put it back on the states. Each state has
a various, uh, noise regulations. Those
noise ordinances were put on individual counties and cities,
which after reviewing the, the goochland, uh, county,
um, noise ordinance is my understanding that,
uh, shooting was excluded from that. So
we really didn't have anything to compare to for the gland county. So
we refer everything to the osha standards. That's why we say 85 decibels
so well below hearing protection necessary, or even
where it should be heard, um, at distance at the surrounding residence.
um, I have recommended, if this is approved, that
additional noise sampling be done just to compile
historical data for the site in case it becomes, uh,
a concern. Um,
that's all I have. I have a question for you, sir. Yes, sir. Is there, um, through your
years of studies and research, have you noticed any difference between
wintertime sampling versus summer and outdoor? Well,
it's a great question. Um, and just a little bit about myself. So
I've been doing this a little over 33 years, industrial hygiene exposure monitoring,
um, not only fire range ranges, indoor outdoor,
but a number of other hazards as well. So in our
experience, because vegetation in the spring and summer months,
that will help reduce the noise levels as well. So
when we did our testing, it was, it was worst case scenario because the
leaves are down, noise can travel a little bit further.
um, but we didn't find anything exceeding
those levels. When you say it lowers, are we talking
two decibels, five decibels, what? During the summertime?
I mean, is it a, a minuscule amount or is it a I I
I believe it's gonna be a minuscule amount, you know, without doing the actual
sampling on the site, because each site is different based on the topography
of the land, the surrounding vegetation, um,
you know, it, it likely would decrease, but I don't have any data to provide
today on that. Okay, thank you. Mm-hmm . I wanna clarify one thing, and, and it
might have been confusing to the audience, is why I want to
bring this up. I looked at where your, uh, sound
monitoring stations were, and you've referred to one being 50 feet behind
the shooter, right? Correct. When you say
behind, I I, when I look at the, uh, the,
the maps that you provided, it looks as if it's in front of the shooter
as if it's in the direction that the shooting is happening.
so I, I guess my point is were they pointed not
necessarily directly at the sound measuring equipment, but in that general direction,
or were you actually measuring behind the back of the shooter?
correct. There was one behind the shooter as well. So the
purpose of that was to make sure we were triangulating the
sampling so that we had a base to compare to then I okay. Then
I, I don't understand the, uh, you've got the shooting position
marked on your, on one of your maps, and, and it looks as though this,
that one station is on the other side of the shooter from
all of the other, uh, four stations that you had. So,
uh, and I think you were measuring a peak levels there of 127
db or something like that. So, um, the, the peak, which is the highest
I understand recorded, yes. Yeah. So, um, so it does, it, it, I don't know. To me that sounded like it
was, um, not necessarily directly
in front of the barrel, but in, in that general direction, the,
the, the sample behind them. Well, what you, what you were referring to is behind
though that, I dunno, to me, if I was shooting in your direction
yeah, right. It was a sample that, okay. Alright. Behind then,
then the map that I'm looking at of your, uh, of your
sensor locations, uh, this map right here, yes. You're
showing one to the right of the shooting position.
sample one is directly behind them.
it, it, it might be obscured by the, the little, uh, plot.
the, the circle in the middle there was their firing location. Right.
and they were firing, uh, directly towards, uh,
sample areas, two, three, and four. Oh, they were actually shooting back towards
walton road. Yes, sir. No,
no, no, no, no, no, no. So they
were shooting towards 64. If you look at the second map that's
provided, which, which is a yes, I,
I see the second, second map. So they were shooting in the direction of
interstate 64. 64 and yes.
all right.
okay. All right. In your,
uh, expertise, if you put, we're all shooting on the ground, everything
was done on the ground, if you put someone up 10 feet, does that change
the noise level? Very minimal. Very minimal, yes, ma'am.
okay. Mr. Thomas, I appreciate
that. Lacking other standards, you're using osha as a standard. Um,
and I'm familiar with time weighted analysis. We use that when we talk about hazardous
materials, similar concepts, um, and that's important when
you talk about osha, but let's talk about it in this situation.
um, how is time weighted analysis different than the instantaneous
peaks that, uh, that you experienced in how might residents
experience that noise? Not over eight hours, but at the moment. Right, so
one thing to understand when doing noise analysis, you have your
l peak and you have your l your l max. So your
l peak is basically your acoustical, uh, signal.
um, the highest measurement, right, the highest measurement of less than
in a micro a hundred microseconds, if you will. The, your, your max
is, is basically the measurement period, um, for that noise
event. So, um, the time weighted average yes.
is very important. And, and mind you, there were
about 7,000 sampling points for each
monitor during this two hour period. Um, each monitor
was collecting that data. It's calculated based on the time weighted average.
so it does take into consideration your l peak and your,
uh, max sound at each time.
okay. I understand that. Mm-hmm . But how is that experienced
perceived when you have those high peak perceived noise levels? Well, it's an average, right? We all know average
is a horrible statistical measurement for things. Sure. Well, I,
I, I mean, you have a car go by that doesn't have an exhaust on
it. Is it loud? Sure. The, the, the difference
is it, when it comes to noise and noise conservation,
it's over that eight period of time. There is no other regulatory
agency that has information on that when it comes
to hearing conservation. So yes, you're gonna have
higher and lower with the buffer zone that they have there with the vegetation.
the, the data that we have that dropped off even on
that l peak and l max was significant at the
property lines. So, um,
you know that, that, yes, you're gonna have
higher points, you're gonna have multiple people shooting.
um, typically my experience with, with clay, shooting, with, with the monitoring
that we've conducted, um, people take turns. You don't
have a hundred people shooting at, you know, one clay target.
it's a process that works just like on a golf course where you take
your turn to have your putt. Um, so
you know, you, you will have some elevated, and that's why I suggested
additional testing down the road if they do become operational,
so that that data can be compiled and pro, you know, provided
as well. Alright, and another question, I don't really understand
how sound works, so I have a lot of questions. If you fire
one shotgun and it has x decibels and then you fire
three shotguns at the exact time, is that three x
the number of decibels or is it the same level or something
in between? I mean, one would think yes, you, you would have a, a slider
level of decibel readings. However, I don't
think, well, I know through my experience that that is not a way clay
operational works. Um, you're not gonna have three people shooting
at one target. Um, I understand. I just didn't know how sound work. If you
have a 50 db sound and an 80 db sound, is
that 130 dbs or is that 80 dbs in the fifties mask? No. And that, that, that's
kind of the purpose for the eight hour time weighted average for, for doing that
is to figure out what that trend is. I mean,
ultimately if you have three people shooting simultaneously,
you would think that the noise levels would be very similar. They're not going to
increase significantly. Okay. You know, from what I've seen. Thank you.
yes, sir. Okay.
any other questions? I don't
know how much time we have left because there's a lot of questions. If I may just take about three,
four minutes and go through the, uh, powerpoint presentation really quick. Yeah, please. Sure.
yes. Thank you. I appreciate that. Take up some of your time. Thank you very much. So, uh,
just, uh, this is an overview. Most of you already know what this is, but just should go over, uh, some
of the, uh, information on virginia sport, uh, sports park.
uh, we wanna talk about who we are. Uh, we are a 5 0 1 c3
nonprofit charitable organization committed to building character, teaching safety,
and strengthening families through outdoor sporting activities. We are not a
shooting range. We're community focused sporting facility designed with gland's,
values at heart, youth development, structured programs for character and
skill building, safety education, big on safety education, professional
instructors and and responsible outdoor activities, community engagement,
bringing families and generations together, charitable commitment
operated as a nonprofit, reinvesting into programs, families
and charitable events, serving our communities for a nonprofit organization,
as we said, building a facility that serves the heart of our community. From boy scouts
to schools to four h to multi-generational families seeking quality time
youth organizations. Our partners include boy scouts, girl scouts, young
life, and four h, um, to provide structure, outdoor
education that builds leadership and responsibility, educational
programs for board and community organizations focused on safety, teamwork and outdoor
skills and family bonding, uh, creating meaningful connections between
parents, grandparents and youth through shared outdoor experiences.
what's our mission? Our mission is building character through outdoor activities. Our core values include
building, build character in young people, teach comprehensive safety practices,
promote personal responsibility, strength and family bonds. Foster
community connections instill and promote respect for nature and
responsible conservation. Through structured outdoor activities,
we create opportunities for growth, learning, and meaningful relationships.
some of the benefits to gland county youth and richmond programs, providing
safe supervised activities that keep young people engaged, active
and learning valuable life skills in a supportive environment. Economic
contribution, creating local jobs, attracting visitors to the area,
and supporting goland businesses and charities through events and tournaments. Our
capital investment is, is expected to exceed between two to
$2.5 million in this conservation leadership
teaching environmental stewardship, habitat preservation, and responsible
outdoor practices to the next generation community gathering space,
offering a venue for fundraisers, school outings, corporate team building, and
multi-generational family activities, addressing
your concerns. A lot of these we have, uh, addressed and we will address after comment,
the citizens' comment period as well. Understanding
the concerns, uh, noise impact, uh, there, the worry
of shooting sports will create excessive disruptive noise affecting the quality of life
and property values. Uh, as you've already heard from our, uh, uh,
sound, um, expert, that noise is not an issue
in this case. The reality is sporting clays five stands and wobble trap, they operate
intermittently during limited daytime hours,
not continuously, not late at night, and the activity is seasonal and weather
dependent. Um, an independent third party professional sound study, which
you just heard, basically reveal the same sound mitigation strategy.
vsp will erect natural terrain buffers, uh, uh, excuse
me, berms, uh, with newly planted pines will utilize natural
terrain buffers throughout the property. Engineered berms, evergreen plantings,
uh, new tree lines, strategic course layout pointing away from
the residences and target loads that minimize sound
safety is our foundation. Professional instruction, mandatory safety
training, supervised activities and strict protocols
ensure every participant follows best practices. Safety isn't a
priority, is our culture through thoughtful traffic management. Located
at haysville exit of I 64 with easy access,
minimizing impact on area roadways, tia conducted showed
no significant increase to current traffic levels, and it has a controlled
limited use property valuation we talked
about said this is based on market trend. This is outside of anyone's
control. Uh, we are gonna be champions of conservation, habitat preservation
and environmental stewardship education. This
is a positive for gland, this is for the youth and generations
to come. Family connections, youth opportunities, and community pride.
thank you for your time on that. And a couple of days ago
we had forwarded, uh, some, uh, responses to the draft conditions
to, uh, to all of you. And our responses
are basically we're dealing with outstanding issues, draft conditions to the cup
and fire marshals review comments, those are in there after the comment period.
if you have questions on there, we are happy to address those with you as well.
thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.
all right.
all right. We are now going to, uh, open the citizen comment
period. Um, do you want start that?
take a break. I'm good. I'm good. Are you? We should start it. Yeah,
let's start. All right, let's go. All right. We welcome the number of residents who are
engaged on this issue, and we want to hear from everyone who wants to speak at the public
hearing. Because of the number of people here tonight, we have allowed people to sign up
for public comment electronically before the meeting. This list is
being used to help us better manage public comment and move efficiently through this process.
during the public comment period, we are going to be calling up speakers in groups. We
ask that you take a seat in the front reserved rows.
this will allow everyone to, uh, still be able to see the screen and
the presentation. Um, also, per the fire marshal, please remain seated
and keep the aisles clear until your name is called. Uh, for those
of you who wish to speak but have not signed up, we will hear from you after the
people who have signed up have spoken, everyone will have the opportunity to share their
thoughts. Uh, for those of you yielding your time to someone
else, you must come up to the podium with the person you're yielding the time to
state your name and address for the record, and then you may return to your seat.
um, it is great to have so many people here and engaged on this issue, and we
know you want to support speakers with whom you agree, but we want to ensure
that the public is managed efficiently so that we can hear from as many people
as possible. Therefore, please, please
refrain from clapping, yelling, making snide comments, things that
are going to keep us here longer. Um, we do want to hear from
everyone, um, but we don't want to make it where we have to do, um,
a recess or we have to take a break. Um, a lot of us do have to go to work tomorrow.
and, um, we wanna get through this, um, as respectfully as
possible. We are all here in the community together, and we do wanna hear from everyone.
uh, for those of you, oh, nevermind, uh, please direct your remarks
to the planning commission, um, chair. Uh,
and once your name is called, please come forward and state your name and address. You will
then have three minutes to speak unless you, uh, have been seated to your time.
um, again, when you first start to speak, the green light will come on, and
then the yellow will indicate that you have one minute left, and then when it is red, that
means your time is up. And please do respect that as we do have many, um,
citizens to speak tonight. Um, but again, if you are seating your time, you will have more time,
but just please be aware of the, um, the lights that do go on.
um, we can now call our first, um, public comment,
right? If karen grief, laura corwin,
sandra smith, karen george, and david sisson could please
come to the podium. We'll have your cedars, um, go first
and see their time. And then if we could just stage in the front row,
um, lindsey gibson, julie duff, ryan ferrell,
dan richardson, and sarah lindeman. Thank you.
good evening, uh, panel and madam chair,
my name is karen grief, 2 0 8 duke street. I'm going to
seed my time to mr. Size.
my name is laura corwin. I live at 2 0 8 duke street.
I'm seating my time to david sisson,
sandra smith, 2 0 8 duke street. Seating time to david
sisson. Karen george,
1 7 5 bir street. I'm seating my time to david c
thanks, mom. .
I know. Sorry about that. Um,
there we are. So for this you have forward backward.
okay. Thank you so much.
hi. Good night. Good evening. Um, thank you again for the
opportunity to speak tonight. Can you just state your name and address please? Yep. My name is david sisen. It
was the next line, , sorry. I live at 50 20 6:00 am road. I would be
directly impacted, uh, by vsps proposed range half a mile away.
the vsp community impact and site suitability report we prepared was sent to the county last friday.
the latest version is at no range on walton.com under community concerns
and it will continue to be updated there. I wanna thank the commission,
uh, for all the hard work they do, and like
mr. Kimberly, I'd like to urge everyone here to engage in civil discourse,
to be respectful of each other, even in deep disagreement, to be open-minded
and seek mutual understanding, to be willing to compromise unless the health, safety
and dignity of another person is at stake. This virginia code outlines the planning commission's,
powers and duties to the end that residential areas be provided with healthy
surroundings for family life and the agricultural and forestal land be preserved.
these are at risk. If this permit is approved, it is my personal belief.
and outdoor shotgun range can be good for a rural community in
the right location. However, this location is wholly unsuitable.
here are the facts. Lux stone site plan deliberately avoids deep creek
and the wetlands, uh, this is cool here.
uh, blasting is limited and scheduled, and there's a half mile buffer between
the extraction area and the nearest how homes.
so from here to the nearest homes here,
whereas vs. P's slight plan overlaps both.
oh, skipped. These next two slides are in the report. This
slide shows that based on full shot file zones, shooters cannot avoid depositing
shot into the wetlands. Wetlands are, uh,
emphasized in the middle there.
this slide depicts the government's current assessment of the wetlands and fema flood hazard areas.
there is no configuration of shooting stations that eliminates the risk to those outside the
property.
the proposed, uh, shooting stations are in black.
here's what the full shot fall zones negligent
or accident. Dental discharges do happen, and when they do, they can result in catastrophic
consequences. Redundant systems need to be in place to eliminate as
much risk as possible. Here are the 360 degree shot fall zones. They
overlap with adjacent properties and homes. Walton road and highway 64.
do not accept that risk when you can 100% prevent it.
a thousand foot setbacks ensure shot fall remains on the property.
this table shows the number of homes surrounding the site alongside six other ranges in
virginia. Vsp likes to use bull run as an example. However,
within half a mile, the area of highest impact, it's not even close.
one of these things is not like the others, but sometimes a pitcher is the only way
to truly experience data. Vsp will always be on the left.
one key takeaway is that 95% of the homes within one mile of any
comparison range were built after the range was open, sometimes decades later.
here's bull run in fairfax. 120 homes built after
the range opened. Cavalier sporting
clays in hanover, 65 homes built after the range was open.
and again for flying rabbit in mount crawford. Uh, the homes
are the yellow dots in case that wasn't clear. And again,
for, uh, old, sorry. Yeah.
and again, for, uh, old forge near east of richmond,
only central virginia sporting clays had more than a few homes within a one mile,
uh, within one mile built before the range opened. It serves in as, as one
example of the maximum home density that should be considered for a new range.
an even better example is, or apacs. In uchin county,
orax was permitted to operate an outdoor range in 2013.
that permit is an example of the minimum conditions that need to be imposed. The
range was four acres on the backside of a 670 acre lot. It was at least
0.8 miles from any residence and one mile from any road. These implicit
uchin county precedents must apply to vsp. Written setback conditions
weren't necessary in that case because the range was well away from homes, roads,
and property lines, and they were not allowed to move it. Any
shooting range closer to homes or roads or with a higher home density than or apac should be denied.
the contrast is even more impaired at half a mile. I'll move quickly to
get to the bottom line. Here's bull run
at half a mile, cavalier
flying rabbit, old forge,
central virginia sporting clays and or packs.
here's all of those six together.
here's virginia's, uh, sports park.
the homes on these maps are like shotgun pellets hitting a neighborhood. While it only
takes a couple of pellets to break a clay target, vsp would be the only range guaranteed to
be absolutely lethal to the neighbors
on the right are all six comp ranges combined.
only 15 homes were built or already existed within half a mile
of any of those ranges. In the combined 207 years of operation
on walton road, there are already 35 preexisting homes within half a mile
of e-s-e-s-p 120. Within a mile over 500
in two miles. Only bull run in
fairfax can rival that home density beyond half a mile. And if gluten
reached that density level, we're no longer rural.
there are 10 homes in a quarter mile. The three closest homes are 600
or 700 feet away from the nearest shooting station. Full transparency,
homes of range mirrors were not depicted, however, not even homes
were as, uh, not even their homes were as little as 600 feet away from the nearest shooting station.
when the half miles depicted for all the shooting stations, you can see the full extent of the
impact.
why does it matter? Shotgun
noise travels long distances. Exposure can damage your hearing. This light can be
found in the report, so I'm not gonna read it all in short, the closer you are to the source, the louder
the noise and the less time you can be exposed before it damages your hearing. Under
the right conditions, a shotgun can be heard from two miles away. That's 500 plus homes
affected. This chart shows decibels,
decibel levels, with example sources also in the report. Homes up to
a mile away could be subject to noise between 85 and 105 decibels or
more for simultaneous shots.
according to the cdc, allowable exposure to noises above 94 decibels is counted in
the minutes, not hours before hearing damage occurs. 10 homes within
a quarter mile would experience 97 decibels or more. That's 30 minutes or less
of allowable exposure. This is while outside their own home.
hearing damage isn't the only adverse effect from noise of of this nature.
the unpredictable shots can also cause stress response leading to other health concerns.
vsp is incentivized to make the range as popular as possible. Vsp plans
to be open more days per week and more hours per day than any of these public ranges.
conservative estimates of average shots fired are 10,000 per day
during the winter and 17,000 during the summer. That's 10,000
shots a day all day, every day for the rest of our lives,
or 10,000 cars without exhaust. The evidence shows that
no one chooses to live within a half a mile of a gun range. If they can avoid it
at a minimum, minimum, the following conditions must be opposed.
an environmental stewardship plan for lead, which I'm glad is required. Noise limits
measured at the property lines. A thousand foot setbacks for shooting stations from property lines
and 1500 from roads shooting stations no closer than three quarters
of a mile from a home. Fewer hours, hours per day, and fewer days per week.
if the board of supervisor fails to, uh, supervisors fail to impose all of
these conditions, that precedent means there could be a commercial gun range on any gland parcel
as small as 85 acres and zoned a one a two. There
are nearly 360 such parcels in gucci county. An unconditioned
permit would act like a dinner bell to anyone looking for a sympathetic county to open
a commercial outdoor sh shotgun range. Imagine a range
near you operating from 8:00 am to sunset, 365
days a year. Next time it could be you if you want it to
be you. Contact vsp
based on these facts. My hope is that vsp will recognize how unsuitable this site is
withdraw their application and continue the search. I hope they use our feedback and
our report to help them improve their engagement with their next potential neighbors.
I wanna be, I wanna believe that vsp didn't fully comprehend and appreciate the negative impact
both on the community and the environment. I wanna believe they were not willfully ignoring
it. I hope they needed only to be shown these facts to come to the same conclusion
that an outdoor shotgun range does not belong on walton road. Recall that I asked
everyone to be willing to compromise unless the health, safety and dignity of another person is at
stake. While the facts presented here prove that the health, safety
and dignity of the walton road community is exactly what's at stake. If vsp has granted this
permit, vsp should find another location that isn't guaranteed to be lethal
to their neighbors. Thank you again for your time and consideration. I'll be here all night.
happy to answer any questions. And
is there any slide you wanna see again, .
thank you. Thanks. Thank you.
next speaker.
my name's ryan ferrell, 28 20 sandy hook road. And I'm seating my
time to sarah lindeman. My
name is dan richardson, 2 8 7 jerry lane. I'm seating my time
to sarah lindeman. Julie
duff 4 9 7 8 winter lane and I'm seating my time to sarah lindeman.
set you. Yeah, thank you.
thank you. Appreciate it.
we go done. You have backward
and okay, great. Thank you so much. Mm-hmm
alright, good evening. My name is sarah lindeman and I live at 2 8 7
jerry lane. That is off of walton road. Um, I'm a resident
of louisa county, but my property abuts the lux stone property, which is divided as you
have seen along the louisa county gland county line. I have
13 years of professional experience in large scale wetland, environmental and land use
permitting as a professional. I have submitted, received approval and managed compliance
with numerous conditional use permits in virginia and other states.
the zoning code of the county section 1560 provides standards to use as guidelines.
as you have seen this evening, it states the establishment, maintenance, or operation
of the conditional use will not be detrimental to or endanger the public health, safety,
morals, comfort, or general welfare. I pause that there is not enough information
in this application or in the concept plan to ensure meeting the standard is
possible. And I will talk briefly about each criteria. I'm gonna try to move it a good clip, so I appreciate
your patience. Uh, safety first up, the concept plan does not
show any security measure measures or perimeter fencing. As we have discussed this evening.
the staff report suggests adding a condition that no trespassing signs must be posted and
maintained along all boundaries and warn of an active shooting range for an active shooting range
with 14 stations that point towards occupied residences or an interstate highway.
this is not acceptable. I urge the commission to require the applicant to prepare
a safety plan, which includes appropriate perimeter security and details, all measures
dedicated to safety for users and neighbors of the proposed range.
at the initial public meeting, the applicant showed a video from youtube on where to find the safety on
a shotgun. This is not an adequate substitution for a project-wide safety plan.
the applicant has not provided any comprehensive information to neighbors on what measures
they will put in place to keep our family safe from a public gun range adjacent to
our properties. Sections 1565 and 1566
relate to adequate access roads and ingress and egress with particular reference to vehicular
and pedestrian safety and convenience, traffic flow and control and access in case of fire or
other emergency while the applicant conducted a traffic impact analysis,
it does not consider the full access route from I 64 and excludes two intersections
through which 70% of the site traffic will travel. That is what is shown, uh, on
the screen behind you. The route in purple is what matches what's shown from the traffic
impact analysis conducted by vsp. What's shown in blue and yellow
are my assessments of how to get from 64 to the site. What you'll notice
here is that three chopped road connects to two 50 at the red circles.
the impact analysis stated that 70% of the traffic would be leaving the site
and turning left on the purple route. What happens after that
purple route ends is not included. Uh, my understanding is that 70% of
that traffic would then move on to access two 50 back to 64.
you can see here that neither of those intersections were included in the analysis.
uh, while vida was a part of that, I contend that this is not adequate and
uh, is a misrepresentation of the route the traffic will take to site.
this is a screenshot which you will also see from the plan that our neighborhood group
has prepared. This is one of those intersections. This is where three chopped road
meets, two 50 on the southern end. Um, and this
is a small southern, this is a small gas station and a market. It's a dangerous intersection
where many residents have already experienced, excuse me, near miss incidents and regularly
witnessed dangerous driving behavior. Residents have identified this as a concern
at every opportunity to speak publicly and it remains a significant cause of concern for many.
I urge the commission to require a revised traffic impact analysis, which includes both
of these locations and addresses the other deficiencies I have identified in my previous
comments to staff via email. The study this applicant furnished was also conducted on
saturday in the summer and did not account for weekday traffic during all proposed hours of operation
school bus routes or traffic associated with special events or tournaments.
morals, uh, there's a lot to be said here, but I would just like to point out that
the staff report shows several maps which show home locations, but it does not include louisa
county data. I recognize that I'm not one of your constituents, but I would also like to point
out that there are a number of homes and residences that may be impacted by
the proposed project for those of us in louisa county with no recourse to
provide more formal comment or work with our county to address our concerns. I've
reached out to louisa county and have never heard back from them
public health. The concept plan does not include enough information to determine whether
the project will have a negative impact on public health, either to immediate neighbors or those
in the downstream watershed. Nearly all the proposed shooting stations, as you have seen,
point directly into areas identified by a desktop gis analysis as wetlands.
wetlands are typically larger than what is depicted in these desktop analysis. So it's
impossible to determine the extent of any impacts to wetlands without a formal wetland
delineation in issuance of a jurisdictional determination by the us army
corps of engineers. Likewise, it's not possible to know the level of the water table
and potential groundwater impacts without a more specific study. This
is important because wetlands and acidic soils can cause accelerated leaching
of lead into surface and groundwater potentially impacting downstream water quality.
the epa issued a report in 2005 that includes best management practices for
lead at outdoor shooting ranges. It was prepared with support from the nra and the national
shooting sports foundation. It indicates that most human exposure to lead associated
with shooting ranges is through lead contaminated soil. It demonstrates that lead shot
shot particles or dissolved lead can be moved by stormwater runoff and dissolved
lead can migrate through soils to groundwater. Based on my review of
the usda web soil survey, most of the soils in the project site are acidic or sandy,
which means that they are more permeable and more susceptible to lead, leaching
and dissolving. The applicant, as we have seen, has not provided a lead mitigation
plan or provided any substantive details regarding long-term lead management on site,
nor have they proposed any best management practices in writing. Consistent with this epa
report, I urge the commission to require the applicant to prepare a robust
lead mitigation plan and to require them to incorporate the epas recommended
bmps. I also urge the commission to put conditions in
place similar to those in the ora pack cup, which you have heard about this evening, which required soil
sampling and asurity bond to cover the cost of lead removal from the shortfall zone
if the range ceases operations. Um, there's
a lot about the noise study that you have heard today. I have some further concerns.
um, I do not think this is a substitute for a thorough analysis conducted
by properly independent third party professionals. Uh, I urge the
planning commission to require the applicant to conduct a formal acoustic study following
io 1 7 2 0 1 1 20 18, which is
a study specific to noise from shooting ranges in residential neighborhoods.
the iso stands for the international organization for standardization and it's a
group of non-governmental experts, which regularly publish technical standards that are used across
industries. In my industry, it is the gold standard for acoustic studies,
comfort and general welfare. Uh, section 1562 of the code
states that the conditional use will not be injurious to the use and enjoyment of other
property in the immediate vicinity for purposes already permitted nor substantially
diminish and impaired property values within the neighborhood. The applicant has not prepared a formal
property values assessment other than what you have heard. So it is impossible to determine
if the use meets this standard. It is difficult to imagine a scenario
where living next to a public gun range, which operates from eight or nine in the morning until sunset,
six or seven days a week, would increase the value of any of our homes
at nearly all other public gun ranges in the commonwealth. The range was constructed first and homes
were built after the range was established. That is not the case here.
the applicant has stated that the property property will be used to host fundraising, corporate and
other special events. As I understand it, this is not a buyright use of land zoned
a one and it is an additional use case beyond the gun range. The
property is within a designated rural enhancement area as you have, as you know, which is
defined as low density residential ag forest or other uses which are not planned
for public or central utilities. While the range may utilize a septic
system, assuming they move past portable toilets, um, it is a
facility that will be open to the public and it will not be utilized as a residential
property for agricultural or for forest use. I contend
that there is not enough information in this application that the proposed public gun range will
not have a negative impact on existing residences in the immediate vicinity.
the applicant has also not provided any information on alternative sites that were assessed during
the purported years of development of this project. I urge the commission
to require the applicant to conduct a formal alternatives analysis, which considers
other sites of similar size and proximity to the interstate, which are further from
residences. In summary, I believe the planning commission must defer voting
on this application until the applicant can demonstrate that their proposed project does not violate
the ordinances. The burden of proof must be on the applicant to prove
that a public gun range immediately adjacent to family homes is not judgemental
to the health, safety, morals, comfort, or general welfare of those who were
here first. The proposed project does not meet the standard and the cep should not be
approved. Thank you.
if we could have mike liptak, joy haynes, josiah
donaldson, and daniel dalton to the podium and then
sitting in the first row. Amanda olson, sandra
bartel, heidi blaine, joseph bartel, shelby
gibson, douglas duff, and katrina dalton.
okay. Ready? Yep. Mike liptak. 2,400
cheney creek road and I'm gonna seed my time to dan dalton. Thank you.
joy haynes. 24 18 morning view drive. Seating my time to daniel dalton,
josiah donaldson, 180 horseshoe bend bumps virginia seating my time to
former us marine corps machine gunner dan dalton .
good evening, uh, madam chair and commissioners. My name is, uh, dan dalton. I live at,
uh, 46 21 walton road with my wife and soon to be six children,
roughly 500 yards from the boundary of vsp. Uh, first
I wanna thank the county officials and staff who are out on walton road this monday during
vsps, uh, uh, exp uh, shooting experience. It was, uh, great interacting with you, especially
during the 35 minute pause in the middle of the demonstration. Um, I genuinely enjoyed the conversations
we had. I was very thankful for it. Uh, just a little background on myself.
am I familiar with firearms? Like many of you, I was introduced to firearms at an early age
by my father and instructed on how to safely use them from shotguns to pistols
to rifles. I fired, uh, more types of guns than the average citizen due to my service in the marine
corps. Uh, I served from active duty from 2006 to 2010 with two
deployments to iraq at the december 20, uh,
2025 planning commission meeting, uh, and a corresponds with the county
officials. Walton road neighbors requested a formal sound study be conducted for any
official action is taken on vsps application in order to understand the impact of the
range noise, uh, that would be generated on the busiest days, particularly
weekends and tournaments. We received, uh, only the weekend before notice
from vsp that a shotgun demonstration, uh, would be conducted on site
by vsp on january 12th, that monday vsp is shooting
demonstration. Did not rep, uh, represent the type amplification or duration
of tournament gunfire that is rapid, successive simultaneous,
and lasts for hours. Their demonstration included only two firearms,
two locations and approximately 40 minutes of shooting a hundred rounds
in one location, 50 rounds in the other with no sound engineer on site.
there was no verifiable sound measurements that day. Their demonstration was
representative of your average next door neighbor running a single manual trap in
his backyard, not a fun shoot, which generates shotgun fire every
three to 10 seconds and dismisses the reasonable concerns of walton road
neighbors regarding the impact of 17 shotgun stations.
a demonstration for county officials that influences the decision making should have
demonstrated the standard case scenario for noise, not the lightest case scenario.
the county should not accept the january 12th shooting experience remotely representative of
what walton road neighbors will experience if this cup is approved.
the slide shows the approximate, uh, location. The vsp indicated live fire would originate
on january 12th. As you can see, the two marked locations are not even placed exactly
where the firing stations would be constructed. They're in the blue.
this slide shows vsps particulars. They confirmed by email they would be using only two shooters
with rounds fired from only two locations beyond specifying the size of ammunition, they
did not specify weight load or feet per second. I wanna be clear
again that vsp conducted what vsp conducted on january 12th is not a formal sound study
and is not a replacement for a formal sound study, uh, conducted by a licensed
engineer
from the onset of the demonstration. I recognize that vsp was using much lighter loads than what
walton road neighbors used for clay. Shooting on screen is a photo of the ammunition that vsp
showed the county during the demonstration. I wanna point out that the weight of the ammunition
is seven eighth ounces and the powder load is two and three quarters. Dr equivalent.
the weight of the ammunition is important as heavier weights, uh, produce louder
sound, especially when combined with higher dr. Equivalent vsb stated to
the county. This is the exact type of ammunition is used for clay, uh,
uh, shooting sports, which is true. It is equally true though that heavier
weight and more powerful load can be used, uh, with which produces
a much louder sound.
upon conclusion of esp shooting walton road neighbors asked the remaining officials in
the tenants, namely supervisor jonathan christie, uh, supervisor jonathan lyla, commissioner,
uh, martin dean and guin planner benjamin ellis, if they would listen to a few shots
fired from walden road neighbor, um, approximately the same distance away
as the closest proposed vsp shooting station to the closest family home roughly
600 700 feet away. Mr. Sonny williams fired several rounds
from two different types of ammunition representing a higher weight and low
capacity than vsps shooting experience. The difference in sound was apparent to
all who had in attendance and even vsp representatives remarked by, uh, to
commissioner, uh, guy, uh, kimberly, uh, who was on vsp land with them that
wal row neighbors were, and I quote, using much more powerful ammunition. Ammunition
was that, um, ammunition that the applicant state would not be used for sporting clays. End
quote. I wanna,
sorry, I wanna say it again. The heavier weight and higher, uh, load ammunition
fired mr. Williams can is used on clay shooting ranges.
a promise is not a plan. If vsps application is approved, it must be under strict condition.
it all ammunition must be purchased on site and that it must be the exact same
low noise ammunition. Uh, they state was used at their january 12th
shooting demonstration, shown as
the first of two ammunitions ty, uh, fired by mr. Williams. It is heavier weight
than vsps ammunition and produced a louder sound. Again, this can be used
with sporting clays shown
as a second type of ammunition fired. This can, this had both a heavier weight
and a heavier load than vsps and produced a louder sound. Again, this
can also be used for sporting clays.
what vs p used on january 12th is on the lighter end of, uh,
of what is used on clay shooting ranges versus the higher end as demonstrated by
walton road neighbors. What vs p use should be the standard written in the cup
if this application was to be approved. Nothing heavier, nothing more powerful,
nothing louder
tournaments, uchin county staff not in the report on packet
1, 3 4 and I quote the applicant states, mondays are the typical days for tournaments.
end quote, the county should condition the vsp cup restricts tournaments only to
mondays per the applicant's own statement and, uh,
restrict to more than six times per year with each calendar day on a multi-day
event counting as an individual unit, a two-day tournament would count as
two separate times. Additionally, no alcohol should be served or consumed anywhere
on site while range hours are in operation. Goin has, uh, restricted alcoholic
beverages on clay shooting ranges with the orax cup.
the county should condition that. V-s-p-c-u-p restricts special events on weekends. So
no more than six times per year with each calendar day. A multi-day event counting as
individual unit, a two day event should leave only four times
on the calendar year. Again, no alcohol should be served or consumed
anywhere on site during range hours.
the county should not accept or approve v-s-p-c-u-p until a modified concept plan is shot.
fall plan, plan be provided. Again, a promise is not a plan. Vsp must
revise their shot fall plan to correct the overlapping shot fall zones to ensure that
a 360 degree shot fall zone does not fall outside cup boundaries.
this accounts for human error, redundancy and safety parameters will ensure public safety.
a 360 degree shot fall zone should not cross cup boundaries. Property lines
include residence or roads. The shot fall zone, uh, should
not fall across or across or into wetlands. This is based on precedents
at other ranges such as cavalier and hanover and middlesex county ordinance.
regarding, uh, regarding outdoor ranges,
signage and fencing, the county should con condition perimeter fencing and signs
all around the shotgun range so that the axis is controlled to ensure the safety
of the public at large, including children. There are 35 homes within half a mile
vsp with over 20 children living in that area. Even rural middlesex
county has zoning ordinances requiring fences around gun ranges.
in conclusion, these conditions among others should be imposed on vsp
cup should it be approved. The ammunition specifications must be
no larger than seven and a half shot, no heavier than seven to eight ounces
shall not exceed two and three quarters drum equivalent velocity shall not exceed 1,160
feet per second. There shall be no more than six tournaments per year and only on
mondays. There are no more than six special or weekend events per year. There
should be no approval of the cup prior to a revised concept shot fall plan to
include setbacks from property lines, residence and public. Uh, roads. A
360 degree shot falls zone does not cross cup boundaries,
property lines, residence, public roads or across into wetlands. No shooting station
closer than 1000 feet to the nearest occupied home from any direction.
there should be perimeter fencing around the range for the safety of children, residents, and the general
public. Thank you for your time. Any questions?
okay, thanks. Thank you
ms. Dalton's group
matter honor. Good
evening. Uh, my name is douglas stuff. I own the home at 4 9 7 8
winter lane and I am seating my time to katrina dalton.
hi, my name is shelby gibson and I live at 4 3 9 5 3
bridge road, palatan, virginia, and I am conceding my time to katrina
dalton. Good evening. My
name is amanda olson. I live at 60 85 cartersville road in powhatan
and I'm seating my time to katrina dalton.
my name is heidi blaine. I live at 78 13 fern hollow drive in chesterfield, virginia.
I'm seating my time to katrina dalton. Hi, I'm sandra
bartel. I live at 2340 twin creeks lane in ens. I'm
my time to katrina dalton. Hi, I'm joe bartell,
2340 twin creeks lane maidens, virginia. I'm seating my time to katrina
dalton.
good evening, madam chair and commissioners. My name is katrina dalton and I live at 46 21
walton road. I've lived in the county for over 30 years and I appreciate the opportunity
to speak tonight. First of all, I recognize that it is not easy to mediate between
the competing interests of property owners and I wanna thank you for the time, consideration and
effort to read through the body of research that we've submitted to you, especially in our community
impact and site suitability report. This is an issue of property rights
and not even remotely a contention of second amendment rights. A majority of walton
road neighbors think that vsp has a good idea, but their proposed parcel is
insufficient and their layout negatively impacts existing property owners.
a good idea cannot justify a bad location, and this fact is supported by 245
residents of goochland louis and surrounding counties who've signed our petition just in
the last three months. Per gland county zoning ordinance chapter
15, a conditional use permit application must prove
that their permit will not be detrimental to or endanger the public health, safety,
morals, comfort, or general welfare. Their use will not be injurious
to the use and enjoyment of other property in the immediate vicinity for the purposes
already permitted. This is the standard by which the county must
evaluate whether to approve or deny this application on behalf
of walton road neighbors. I contend that vsb has not met this burden of proof.
their proposed use will be detrimental and will endanger the public health,
safety, comfort, and general welfare of our neighborhood, and it will be injurious to the
use and enjoyment of our properties for the following reasons, their stations are
positioned around the parcel perimeter with no setback or acoustic walls to buffer by
distance or barrier. Berm and vegetation provide little to no reduction of
sound. There are no conditions restricting ammunition type to be low noise.
the hours of operation are unreasonable and will diminish our ability to enjoy
our own properties. This endangers our safety, comfort, and general welfare
range. Users will be shooting over and into wetlands against epas recommendations
for outdoor ranges. This endangers the public health, safety and general
welfare. The shortfall zones overlap and have no reasonable setback
from property lines, public roads, and residences to mitigate consequences
of range accidents. There is no proposed perimeter of fencing to
keep out children who don't read signs, pets and the general public.
this endangers public safety. This application also does not preclude
lux stone from developing a quarry as already permitted. Cory blasts occur on
schedule and admittedly, nobody wants to live next to a quarry either, but at least I
can schedule around it. However, vsps own application has stated
that it will not prevent lux stone from having
a quarry, meaning that we will be subjected to both kinds of noise.
additionally, vsps application is incomplete as they referenced a soil study
on page five conducted by lux stone that was not submitted with their application
for county and public review. As proposed and conditioned
currently, the adverse impact of vsps proposal far outweighs any
supposed benefit to the greater community. Any net good would be at the expense of
immediate neighbors and does not remotely meet the standard in gland's zoning ordinance.
at a minimum, the county does not have sufficient information to make a decision
unless or until a professional sound study has been conducted
and submitted for us to review ahead of time along with yourselves
and an environmental impact survey which identifies wetlands and analyzes
lead impact on them. These studies must be conducted and reviewed
prior to considering the application. In december,
we requested a formal sound study. It seems that they may or
may not have done so. Uh, shooting off only 150 rounds doesn't
remotely represent what will occur on a fun shoot day where
you can have 1100 rounds going off per hour.
similarly, the county cannot assess the environmental impact of putting thousands of pounds of
lead into designated wetlands without a professional study. Uchin
required an esp plan for ora packs, a 2013 cup to which I'll
reference shortly, along with heavy bond requirements for lead mitigation
and cleanup. Hanover also requires it cavalier, along with
prohibiting their shooting over or into wetlands.
we share county staff's concerns regarding overlapping shot fall zones on the concept
plan, posing a danger to range users, but as currently proposed,
there's a general public safety danger as well. These shooting stations are located
on the perimeter of the cup boundary with no buffer into adjoining
property. A 360 degree shot fall, which would account for human
error, misfires or negligence must be contained
within cup boundaries and not permitted to cross property lines occupied
buildings or public roads. An updated concept
plan should not wait for pod submittal. This is
a safety issue that must be addressed prior to cup approval.
vsp stated earlier tonight that this isn't a gun range, but last I checked. When
you're shooting clays, you're using a gun. So this is semantics. Shotguns
are being used on this site. Safety should be the highest concern.
okay? Precedent exists in gland county to set reasonable conditions
for the protection of existing property owners. In 2013,
ghan approved a cup application for ora packs to operate a clay
shooting range on the back end of their 670 acres
at the farthest possible point from property lines, public roads,
or the closest neighbor who was situated 0.8
miles away. That's 4,224 feet away.
in contrast, vsp shooting stations are approximately 400
feet from the property line, 600 feet from a family home
and 50 to a hundred feet from interstate 64 or
apacs had inherently more buffering in their concept plan than
vsp has in theirs.
without explicitly conditioning setbacks for the cup
glin would be implicitly setting the precedent that any developer could
acquire an 85 acre parcel in glin to develop a range
and position. Its firing stations along the perimeter, no matter the range's
proximity to residences. Now gland has
codified setbacks for other uses, namely quarries.
considering that this property is already conditioned for a quarry, the same minimum setback
should be conditioned for vsp at least 1000 feet from
the nearest occupied dwelling. Per article 20 u standards, 15
dash 2 83 f. Other rural virginia counties have codified
similar setbacks a thousand feet from any residence per appomattox
and frederick 500 to a thousand feet from any property line
rappahannock in middlesex counties, 1000 feet from any water
body including creeks per middlesex county. These
are reasonable conditions imposed by other rural counties.
goochland will set precedent with this application either
by implicitly permitting conditions, in violation of zoning ordinances,
or by imposing conditions that uphold the zoning ordinance.
no other clay shooting range in virginia is open every day of the year as vsp requested,
or for as many daily hours. Gwin restricted
or apax is operation too seasonal, half a week and from 10:00 am
to 4:00 pm without also conditioning setbacks. Though
even limiting vsps hours to half a week during half the
year would be detrimental to the nearby homeowner who works night shift.
all of these conditions have to go together, setbacks, hours
of operation, and specifying ammunition.
okay. This combination of setbacks would start to
bring the dial closer to mitigating the noise nuisance upon
neighbors, but it would need to be confirmed by a professional sound study.
vsp should not be permitted to control the decibel levels for the majority of our days,
weeks, and months. As such, their
application should be conditioned by a noise abatement plan, including
noise monitoring at least twice a year at the property lines conducted by
a third party sound engineer. It should also be done when more than two
firearms are going off. It should be representative of a
standard or heavier range use stay permitted. Dbas of the
property line shall not exceed 55 dba per sound levels conditioned by uchin
county for the tod tz and november, 2025 as precedent.
in addition to uchin county precedent, similar conditions have been set by other
counties, including hanover county's conditions. For cavalier,
all the aforementioned conditions assume that a formal noise and environmental study proceed any
decision by the county. As vsp has not provided sufficient information
for uchin to make an informed decision about the application tonight,
and their submittal of information yesterday does not afford
the county or the public time to examine in detail without a formal noise
study, environmental study, and updated concept plan, the commission should defer their
vote. At a minimum, the county must impose conditions as the current application
is detrimental and endangers the health and general welfare of neighboring property
owners. Our presented conditions are reasonable and based on precedent in
gland, along with precedent and comparable counties. As a mother who spends the
majority of our days educating our soon to be six children at home, to
be responsible, considerate citizens, I ask that you would defer your
approval or deny it outright as being unsuitable for the proposed location.
thank you for your time. Thank you. Thank you.
if linda morris and lindsey steele could come to the podium
and then kent cantwell, rebecca steadman, heather cantwell,
dennis casner, paula patterson and stan patterson. Have
a seat in the front row. Okay.
hi, my name's linda morris. I'm at 4 1 2 5 clay morris
estates and I see my time to lindsey steele.
hi, I am lindsey steele. I live at 5 0 3 4 angel road.
um, and I thank you for allowing time again for me to speak.
I introduced myself in december to you and testified
to the acidic water in my home, and I'm 0.5 from
the range. I also would just like to add, I have two streams on my
land that feed into a pond that I share with my neighbor, the wearers.
um, and so there's one thing that I wanted to talk about
that bsp stated in both of its community meetings.
it's said very proudly led is legal. I'm
very happy to hear at least that the staff tonight, uh,
recognize the seriousness, but it concerns me that they so publicly
seem unconcerned with lead. Um,
I, so I teach at glen allen high school. I teach ceramics.
and so, um, my field of study has been, um, of
course with ceramics and glazes. And so when they said that,
it, um, definitely affects me. 'cause I know right away that lead
is not legal in ceramic glazes anymore. It's also not legal in pipes
in our home or paints. And I can probably find other things that
it's not legal in because people know already it's not
at all, um, good for humans. In fact, it's a cumulative
thing. So any heavy metal, um, that we
use. And when I have mixed glazes, I have to wear a respirator mask,
goggles, gloves, because any lead or heavy metal
exposure I get stays in my body, um, for my whole life.
you don't expel it and it, it lands in your soft tissues, which is mostly
your brain. So it's something that I have to stay careful,
um, with in my work. And then, um, to hear
that it would be in our environment, um, for recreation,
um, brings up that need and want that I brought up last time of
we need clean water. Um, and I feel like the speakers
tonight have pointed out the wetlands. Um, also the stream
that runs right through the property and feeds into the south anna river.
um, so one, um,
alternative that I've heard brought up, and I don't know anything about guns,
um, but I've heard about steel shooting or steel
bullets. Um, instead of lead bullets, I
just have to ask you to think very carefully. That doesn't seem like a very
good alternative because it is impossible to know
if people are actually following that rule rule or not. Um,
at henrico in henrico high school, um,
in henrico county and at glen allen high school, I am a bag searcher
for weapons in the mornings. And so, um, just the
thought of having to, even if they did put on a condition, someone going
through bags to check if they brought in lead bullets, it is just
impossible. I go through bags five days a week to see if anybody has brought a
gun into the school. And so that's a larger object. A
bullet is a smaller object, and I just know people are cheap. And if steel
bullets cost more, they're gonna go with lead bullets and they're gonna sneak it in. Just like
at the movies when you sneak in candy , people don't care if it's
a box of candy or bullets, like they just wanna save a dollar.
so I, um, just
ask you to really consider the lead in the environment.
and this is a little, um, word problem from, um, one
of our neighbors, but it, it should bring back school memories for you. Um,
so 17 shooting stations, two shots fired
per station per person. 12 gauge clay shot
has 1.25 ounces of lead shot per cartridge.
that is 42.5 ounces of lead per person making the
complete round of shooting stations. Let's say they have 15 people
per day shooting less on weekends, more on weekends,
on only 200 days of the year. We're ignoring the huge amount of people
that would be at tournaments. Take our 42.5 ounce
per lead person per person times 15 people times 200
days equals 127,500
ounces of lead per year, or 7,969
pounds of lead being put into the environment per year in that small
area. That's almost four tons of lead. With lead being
not safe at any level. How can this be safe per people living
in the area? Thank you for your time.
I'm dennis kaner. I reside at 4 9 9 4 double
eagle drive, louisa, virginia. I yield my time to stan
peterson. My name is
paula patterson. I live at 49 83 winter lane and I seed
my time to stan patterson.
rebecca steadman, 38 64 3 chop road gum springing
virginia. And I seed my time to stan patterson.
my name is heather cantwell. My husband kent cantwell couldn't be here, so I'm here in place of
him. I'm at 4 5 8 0 fox chase run in gum springing and I'm seating
my time to stan patterson.
well, my name is stan patterson. I live at 49 83 winter lane.
uh, we've lived there for 10 years and, uh, I would like to thank the planning, commission
planning and zoning and staff for the opportunity to speak in opposition to the proposed
gun range cup tonight I'd like to speak on the continuing environmental
concerns of noise and lead pollution. First, why I appreciate the effort by
vsp to provide a noise study by shooting shotguns from their site. This effort
in no way, no way, represents a professional sound evaluation by an acoustic engineer
on 12 on 1 12 26, I was in attendance from 10:00 am
to 11:30 am observing the shooting demonstration by vspi
used a class two, a weighted sound pressure measuring device from several locations
along the vsp and leandro property line. My device measured a maximum
of 76.9 decibels from the vsp demonstration. However,
I had no idea of the distance to the source elevation, the density of
the vegetation, the direction of the shooting, the size and type of shot,
and other critical factors necessary for an accurate evaluation. It's
my understanding post demonstration that vsp used 12 gauge two and three quarter
inch seven eights ounce lead load shells
research of typical tournament shooting indicates this is a much lighter load than normal
and one in an eight ounce load is most common. The sound characteristics are substantially
louder for a one in an eight ounce load. I was also present when mr. Williams
demonstrated his 12 gauge two and three quarter one in an eight ounce load
shells at approximately 450 feet from the source. My
device recorded a maximum 96.4 decibels.
vsp stated to channel 12 news that the shooting demonstration on 1 12 26
was professional. This statement's incorrect for truly accurate sound measurements.
vsp needs to provide an evaluation by an independent third party sound
analysis firm. That would include calibrated equipment, detailed sound production, and
reception maps and distances. The study would include wind relative
humidity, direction of shooting, trajectory of shooting elevations, and
trajectory of the shot and certification in the size and load of the shells used.
a professional port would show legal chain of custody and expert testimony
until this type of test is performed by vsp. Any sound propagation such as
the one on 1 12 26 remains only as conjecture and
should not be considered sufficient to address the concerns of the residence and
the comments and concerns from the planning and zoning. Secondly, lead
pollution and harm remains an extremely concerning issue
for residents and must be addressed before any action on this cop. We all
know that lead is a toxin with serious harmful consequences to humans and wildlife.
it's evident from the vsp concept site plan and from the gland planning
staff report that all but one of the shooting stations will shoot into or overshoot
wetlands and deep creek. A very real issue exists that
thousands of pounds of lead pellets per year will be deposited into the wetlands and
deep creek that bisect this property. Once these pellets,
once these lead pellets land and accumulate in the wetlands, creeks or streams, they
are considered hazardous waste by epa.gov. This property drains
into deep creek. The lead pellets can be moved from storm runoff with each rainfall
lead compounds can be dissolved and moved downstream as well as into the groundwater.
epa.gov states that lead in solution can move
miles through the ground, relatively unchanged regarding lead
vsp stated to channel 12 news that nothing leaves the property. This is also
incorrect. If the waters of deep creek leave the site, which they do continuously,
then the lead pollution in solution leaves the site and contaminate
contaminates waters and at and aquifers downstream. To date
the epas laws under the resource conservation and recovery act
and the clean water act specifically provides citizens the right to sue gun ranges
when the environment and human health are threatened, threatened being the key word here.
citizens do not have to wait to be poisoned by the lead pollution to engage epa and take
legal action under e-p-a-r-c-r.
a lead shot is regulated spent shot interlink entering waterways
or left in the environment is considered a hazardous waste and a pollutant
as written in section 7,002 and 7,003 of the rcra
statute. E-p-a-r-c-r-a applies to many phases
of this range operation because lead pts are a solid and or hazardous
waste and can present an actual or potential imminent and substantial
endangerment. Epa state epa state municipalities
or citizens groups can take legal action under the statutory provisions of rcra
against gun clubs for actual or potential environmental
damage during or even after the operation of the club. Again, citizens
do not have to wait to take legal action when there's a potential or imminent
environmental danger. The epa clean water act
prohibits quote, the discharge of any pollutants by any person
into the waters of the us without a national pollution discharge
and elimination system permit per epa
expended shot and target debris and including non-toxic
steel shot that inter wetlands streams and or waters of the us are defined
as pollutants as defined by the clean water act
per e-p-a-c-w-a. Any range who shot or target debris
enters wetlands, lakes, streams, or even guts that are frequently dry
but drain into wetlands or streams are subject to government and or citizen
lawsuits per e-p-a-c-w-a
shooting ranges must cease operations over wetlands and waterways. And it is essential
that those ranges design or change their direction of shooting to avoid shooting into
wetlands or waters of the us per epa comprehensive
environmental response compensation in liability act or rcla
epa states that shooting ranges may be liable for government costs incurred
during cleanup of ranges. Natural resource damages, health assessments
and health effects studies. As I mentioned in my earlier notes, I found instances
where lead cleanup in wetlands can cost as much as $150,000 per
acre, but this is a fraction of the cost for lead pollution downstream
and off of the vsp property and the damages to health safety welfare
of thousands of residents cleanup and damages here could be in the millions.
this c this rcla situation is where the term superfund
cleanup is typically found. It is my understanding that the liability for this
cleanup, the producer of pollution vsp, is responsible for all costs.
but as an l-l-c-v-s-p can declare bankruptcy, and since gland county is
aware of the lead situation at the time of c-o-p-c-u-p approval
may be considered negligent and gland county taxpayers will ultimately be responsible
for all cleanup costs. I will also state that all of the information
I've detailed above are fax taking from epa.gov best
management practices for lead at shooting ranges and epa.gov superfund
liability in conclusion regarding noise,
vsp has not provided any realistic professional sound study that will alleviate the concerns
of undue harm to health, safety, and welfare of adjacent residents regarding
lead pollution and poisoning. Due to the potential serious epa violations
and impacts, vsp cannot build this gun range on this piece of property. The
shooting stations cannot be built so as not to pollute the wet, pollute the wetlands
and streams. There simply isn't enough land. The property is too small for the proposed
use. The wetlands cannot be avoided with 17 overlapping
shot fall zones as shown on the planning and zoning report. Regardless of the direction
vsp may try to show this proposed use clearly violates laws
of the epa, the resource conservation recovery act, the clean water act,
and if approved, will undoubtedly be subject to legal action under the comprehensive environmental
response compensation and liability act. Why would gland
county even begin to enjoin themselves in a potentially legal
act, illegal act by approving this cup? But
regardless of the facts I've just read, who is
okay with children having to wear hearing protection just to play in their yard?
and who wants to take the risk, the real and potential lead poisoning
of residents and children when lead toxins emerge in their drinking water and aquifer?
thank you very much for your opportunity to, to oppose this cup
and if anybody has any questions, I'll be glad to try to answer them.
thank you. Okay,
if we could have bridget taylor, ian smith and brandy sisson
come to the podium and then waiting on the front row. Justin lagerfeld,
courtney edwards, kyle edwards, robin larson,
kevin larson, kathy edi, and bob lippers.
my name is ian smith at 5 0 2 4 ang road.
I am seating my time to brandy sissen.
my name is bridget taylor. I live at 50 24 ain road. I'm seating
my time to brandy sissen.
hi, I'm brandy sissen. I live at 5 0 2 6
ain road within a, within a half a mile of the proposed site for virginia sports park.
I'm an accountant, so I'm going to share some numbers with you for
a sporting clay tournament. Once a sh once a shooter steps up to the
shooting station, they have 20 seconds to call for a target. And between shots
and between shots, assuming a bare minimum of one target at
the maximum allowable time, each shooter will fire three times a minute.
this will happen at all 15 state stations simultaneously.
this very conservative estimate of three shots a minute at 15 stations
with the proposal of 8.75 hours in winter
at the earliest sunset of the year, means that 23,625
shots will be fired that day. An argument could be made that the
tournament won't run from open to close or that attendance won't be consistent
constant the whole time. Of course, that is likely to be true at, at
least until loca the location becomes popular enough to warrant all day
or multi-day tournaments, which is what any commercial gun range is incentivized
to achieve. It also doesn't factor in travel
time between stations or lulls between shooters, but again, as a courtesy
to other participants, moving quickly at moving quickly at
and between stations is encouraged. So to be generous, let's
assume half the number of shots are fired. That's still more than 10,000
shots per day during winter hours during the
summer when operating hours are at their longest and attendance is likely
to be at its peak, taking all of those minimums of three shots per minute,
15 stations, 12.75 business hours. That gives us 34,425
shots. If we cut that in half 17,212 shots
per day, that's an overwhelming number of shots and
that's near the minimum. My husband and I recently attended
a, a national sporting clays association registered fun shoot,
which is a more relaxed non tournament event at central virginia
sporting clays on sunday, january 11th. They have 14 stations,
one less than vp vsps proposed 15,
and they weren't using at least one station that we could see from the parking lot
where we stayed. There were about 10 vehicles in the lot
with another four in the truck with trailer lot, no
telling how many were employees versus attendees. We sat in
the car for from about one 50 to two 2:10 pm which
would have been about halfway through that day's, shooting hours of 12
to 4:30 pm we recorded for about 15 to 20 minutes.
as we drove up, we started to hear the shots around a half a mile
away through trees and around a corner over
the 20 or so minutes we recorded the average rate of shots fired
was one every three seconds or about 20 per minute.
at about at 8.75 operating hours proposed
by vsp we're looking at 10,500 shots. Imagine if this
had been an actual tournament with full attendance. Vsp
is proposing to subject at a minimum of three dozen family homes
within a half a mile of to this experience on a regular basis for
eight or more hours a day, and likely many of the other 90
homes within a one mile of the shooting range. No
one should be forced to live like this, like that.
I'm going to use the remainder of my time to play for you. Um, what that
demonstration might sound like. Um, what a low key
modestly attended event, a full 30 minutes south of zion cross roads
is likely to, uh, is like in reality.
I stopped it. Okay. If I had, I was trying to find out how much was left
on it, so it stopped. I'll, I'll move on. I counted 36 shots in that, in that
video. That should have been an hour, uh, one minute and 40 seconds long.
put another way a shot on average, not that it's a statistically
valid measurement. Um, every 1.66
seconds a shot was fired. I ask you,
I ask that you do not recommend a gun range at this location.
and since I still have some time, I'm gonna comment on
a couple of things. By definition, this is much closer
to a gun range than a golf course, um, which
is how they keep referring to it. Um, as I'm also gonna
note here, I that this nonprofit
or for a nonprofit to say community so many times as they,
as they approach us this board and talk about their, their intentions,
they didn't once knock on a neighbor's door to, to discuss
their plans. Thank you. And I'm sorry about
my video, . I could send
it to you though if you want. Thank you. Okay, .
um, justin lagerfeld, courtney
edwards. Kyle edwards.
hi, my name's justin lagerfeld. I was gonna, uh, see my time with kyle, but uh, he said it's okay.
it was okay with you. I'd like to speak very briefly. That's fine. Can you state your address please? 800
rockford road and your name again? One more time. I'm sorry. Sorry. Justin lagerfeld.
the words of our lord jesus christ from his sermon on the mount. Um, the gospel
according to matthew. So whatever you wish that
others would do to you, do also to them. For this is the law
and the prophets enter by the narrow gate for the gate is wide
and the way it's easy that leads to destruction and those who enter by it are many
for the gate is narrow and the way it's hard that leads to life and those who
find it a few.
all right. I'm kyle edwards. I live at 4 6 0 2
walton road. Um, I'm roughly 1200 feet from the closest
shooting station. That's about, um, the entrance to the parking lot here
to just out of the roundabout. Um,
I was on a s***t shooting team at my middle school and high school. Um, I've
shot thousands of rounds. I've never used seven eight ounce. I she
like was used in the demonstration. Um, always used, uh, one in
the eighth. Um, anyway, um,
god's blessed me and my wife with two sons and, um, we plan on homeschooling.
we spent a lot of time outside at the house and, you
know, I really look forward to my sons getting older, teach 'em how
to shoot, taking 'em, s***t, shooting, taking 'em hunting. But I would never take
'em to a, to a shooting range or a sporting clays facility
that close to houses. Um, reason being, I feel like
I would be, uh, a little hypocritical if I taught him, you know,
to love your neighbor as yourself. And then I did that.
it just doesn't, doesn't seem right. But, um,
as katrina mentioned, the uh, goon county ordinance
for, um, cup applicants states that, um,
the establishment, uh, establishment, maintenance or operation of the conditional use will not
be detrimental to or endanger of the public health, safety, morals, comfort,
or general welfare. And this conditional use will not be injurious
to the use and enjoyment of other property and the immediate vicinity for the
purposes already permitted. And I just don't see how that could be.
um, this would go with that being that, um, there
are homes so close to the proposed facility, um, as mr.
sisson, um, showed on his graphic. Dsp would be
the only, um, sport and clays facility with any houses within
a quarter mile. All six other facilities had
zero. Um, we would have 10,
within a half a mile. We would have 35 houses
within the facility. Um,
there's three that has zero, one that has eight, one that has four, and one that has three.
so, um, just on that alone, uh, I think
it speaks volumes. Um, I would ask that y'all don't approve in this
location. I hope they find a better location 'cause I would like to have, uh, somewhere
local to take my son, but it just isn't it. Thank y'all. Thank you.
robin larson, kevin larson, excuse
me. Robin larson. I'm gonna try really hard. 4 6 3 8 walton
road and I'm seating my time to him. You don't want to hear me speak tonight.
good evening, madam chairman and commissioners, or maybe I should say goodnight given the time.
my name is kevin larson and I live at 4 6 3 8 walton road.
I've resided in gland for more than 30 years, and on
walton road for over 25. My family has adopted
walton road and three chopped road as part of the vdot adopt a highway program
for almost 25 years. We have raised six children in gland
and soon seven of our 11 grandchildren will call walton road
home. I'm very thankful for the opportunity to speak tonight.
I plan to touch on the youth aspect of the, uh, vsp plan.
vsp has stated that their facilities will be a benefit to the youth of gland and
possibly other counties in their request and in testimonials from supporters.
vsp has positioned this as a benefit to the children of the county,
but they failed to make a compelling case. I'm gonna touch on
two areas. You, um, organizational usage. Vsp
received a wonderful endorsement from scouting america. Former formerly bsa
recent news reports indicate that scouting america is looking to
do some improvements to their current facilities in gland. Why would
a nonprofit like scouting america invest so much in their own facilities
and then utilize a different location at an added cost
trail? Life of america, which is another youth scouting organization. And there
are, there's at least one troop in gland and one in, uh, the very
extreme western end of henrico county have
over 40 young men. Neither one of these troops are planning to
haul these children out to haydenville to use this facility.
american heritage girls, which is a, a similar organization, uh,
focusing on girls. There are two, again, two troops with over a hundred young
ladies. They won't be using the facility.
where are these supposed children coming from? Well, when
you look at the hours of operation, it's gonna be very difficult. The vsp
facility will have much of its operating time while uchin students are in classes.
will the school bus students for almost 20 minutes out
to haydenville to use the facilities for a pe class and then
bust them back that's not gonna fit into a school day?
are they gonna use it for after school things? I just think of the parents that
have maybe a, an older son in, in football, a
a daughter playing field hockey, and then their third child wants to be involved in the
shooting. There is no way they can make all these trips around the county. It just isn't
feasible. I appreciate that they want to provide something for the children.
this just doesn't make sense logistically. In short, the
recommended benefit to the children is a shira.
as others have noted, there are many children in the immediate area of vsps
facilities. Those children already have access to private gun ranges
to utilize under direct family supervision. The opera, the
archery range is the only portion that may see any neighborhood use.
I, for one, am very interested in the archery range in vsp
cup application, they were required to reply, I believe it's
question number five. And on the, the, um, it was page seven, I believe,
of their, their submittal on imp, uh, statement about the
impact to adjacent properties. Instead of doing so,
bp's application talked about hope for benefits to the county,
did not state anything about the adjacent properties.
now, I worked first, uh, 10 years, uh, of my career
at air force geophysics lab and the remaining 30 or so
years at a large banking corporation that has
facilities here in gland. We won't say which one. Uh, and I was in their risk
department. And one of the things that has been talked about amongst,
um, federal regulations is something called disparate treatment.
and I'm wondering to what extent do, um, cup
applications fail to answer questions? And
to what extent do does our community government hold
them to answering those questions properly? So I'm
respectfully asking the planning commission to either and hopefully reject
the cup application altogether due to its
incomplete submissions, or to at least require vsp to address the
issues being raised by the adjacent property owners. And to
thoroughly complete the required items on the cup madam chair
and commissioners, thank you for your services to our, our community, and for your attention
to these matters. Goodnight . Thank you.
thank you. Kathy eddy
and bob lepers. Hi, I'm kathy eddi,
um, 1125 nib lane mannequin. I'm seating my time to
bob leifer. Good evening, madam
chair and members of the planning commission. My name is bob lipert. I reside at 3 0 0 4
rugby road, richmond. I'm here tonight speaking in support of the request
of the cup for virginia sports park. As
you've heard a number of times, there are concerns with the environmental issues
that, uh, potential environmental issues that, uh, might occur
with this facility. And I'd like to try to take and give you a little bit
of background or detail on those issues.
wetlands, surface waters, subsurface waters, uh,
add lead, fall under the regulation and control of the clean
water act and the epa and are enforced
by various federal, state, and local agencies if
you approve this request. And should the board of supervisors approve
this request, it allows the development of the engineering studies and
designs to confirm the existence of wetlands, surface waters,
subsurface waters, storm waters, uh, quantities,
locations, and lead effect in order to submit plans
to these agencies to clarify how we intend to manage these issues and
obtain their approval in the required permits.
additionally, during the course of the construction, periodic field inspections are conducted
by these agencies to confirm their compliance. The time
required to complete these, to complete these studies and the engineering design
and approvals will frankly take somewhere between 12 to 16
months to accomplish.
it's important to understand that should you choose to approve this request,
it does not suggest that you have studied, uh, any of
these issues or provide any approval of the same.
your approval simply means that the use is suitable for the
location and zoning and will and will allow for
the then the development of the pod plans, which will clarify some
of this information that's questioned.
one last item, um, regarding the
temporary trailer. Um, as noted, vsp
is a 5 0 1 3 c nonprofit,
um, excuse me,
the, the, the estimated full cost development cost of the
facility. Right now we're expecting to be somewhere around 3.5 million.
um, that money is not going to come in the door en mass.
it's gonna be raised by, uh, individual contribution, corporate
contribution, and in some cases, some, uh, grants that might apply for
facilities of this sort. So it will take a
bit of time to get to that point. And in order to begin to get some
level of operation, it has suggested that we would operate from a temporary
trailer and temporary health facilities. In order to install
those facilities, we would have to develop plans dic,
uh, detailing where they would be located. In addition, seek
permits from both the, uh, gland county building inspection
department and the gland health department who would oversee those
operations. Lastly, I and I, I'd
like to point out, and I think it's been noted, that per the terms of
our lease with lux stone, uh, we
are required to develop and implement
and maintain an environmental management plan to ensure that no
en en environmental issues are allowed to develop.
thank you for your time. Thank you.
thank you. If, if jt frazier and
mike richmond could come to the podium, and if we could also have in the front
row, brian c justin, lacey, lonnie, bryce,
marcy reese, sonny williams, joshua cather,
jerry weaver. Stacy sson.
good evening. I'm jt frazier. 9 9 2 0 par drive,
oaksville, virginia. I'm saving my time to mike richmond. Thank you.
my name is mike michael richmond, r-s-c-h-m-o-n. Live at 1 3 4 7
hounslow drive, mannequin seven. Uh, what the founders meant
by virtue. Virtue can be defined as self-restraint in the service of
the common good. For the founders, virtue meant willingness to place
the public good above private interests, discipline, courage,
honesty, industry, and civic responsibility virtue
as what is best for the population, rather than a few individuals
not legislating for one class at the expense of others.
that distinction virtue as devotion to the good of the whole rather
than the advantage of the few goes straight to the heart of the american founding.
the founders believed the republic would survive only if
citizens and leaders constantly subordinated narrow self-interest to
the common good. The founders were intensely worried about rule
by factions, small groups using power to enrich themselves.
factions arise from the nature of man, but liberty is
endangered. When factions capture government for private advantage.
virtue meant laws made for general benefit,
burdens and benefits shared fairly. Sacrifice
accepted when necessarily for the whole john adams argued
that liberty exists only when laws are equally
binding on all and calculated for the general good.
anything else was not liberty, it was favoritism. Virtue meant
resisting policies that favored or enriched a few by manipulating public
power, even if those policies were legal. When
virtue is widely held, freedom expands when it captures
into self-interest. Freedom concentrates until it disappears.
applying the founders' idea of virtue as commitment to common good to local
governance and land use debates is not abstract
theory. It is exactly the scale at which they believe republican virtue
mattered. Most towns, counties, and local boards
were character, fairness and restraint would be tested daily.
a virtuous land use decision asked what best serves
the long-term welfare of the whole community, not merely the comfort,
profit or preferences of a few. The standard
rejects, reflective, reflexive, no change ever
obstruction, special carve-outs for connected interest. Emotional
decision making, untethered from facts virtue requires
deliberation, fairness, and foresight. The founders
warned against faction, small groups dominating public decisions
in land use debates, factions often appeared as a handful
of nearby property owners seeking veto power,
developers seeking preferential treatment. Madison's warning
in federalist 10 applies directly. Factions become
dangerous when it pursues its interest at the expense of the permanent and aggregate
interest of the community. A virtuous board must resist
captured by faction, even sympathetic ones. The founders did
not expect freedom. Freedom to be silent or frictionless.
virtue demands reasonable accommodation, not eliminations
of all inconvenience applied principles,
distinguished annoyance from material harm, balance
existing land rights with new uses, measure impacts empirically
not emotionally apply standards consistently. Washington
wrote that liberty requires a spirit of accommodation and mutual
concession. Local virtue means acknowledging that some lawful
activities create discomfort. And the question is whether they unreasonably
harm the community, not whether they offend preferences.
the founders viewed property rights as essential not just
to individuals, but to social stability. Land
rous restrictions are virtuous only when they protect health and safety.
prevent genuine nosis or harm, apply generally
and predict it to the masses. And I've got too many pages.
I thank you for your time. Thank you.
brian c brian c
10 34 earls road. And uh, obviously earls road is
not near walton road. I wanted to speak on behalf of the
neighbors of walton road just to offer a perspective from one who
has great value for our community. One of the refrains that I've
often heard in relation to this is, well, you live in the country,
what do you expect? One thing I've come to appreciate knowing
people in our county is many of them who do shoot recreationally,
I know that they will actually reach out to their neighbors on days or times
when they intend to shoot. Just something along the lines of, hey, I'm gonna be
shooting, uh, you guys got anything going on? I don't want to intrude on that, just
as a matter of neighborly courtesy. And I think you would find that common
throughout our entire community. That's something we value and why? Because
we want to be good neighbors to one another, and we don't wanna do anything that's a detriment
to just somebody's livelihood. And I sit here tonight listening to this now
for, we've been here since five 30, a lot of us, and I wonder
what causes a group like the walton road neighbors to unify like
this and, and go to so many hours and links and come to these meetings
and mobilize as they have in such a short amount of time with virtually
no assistance from the developers. And the only conclusion
I can come to is they know that this gun range
will detrimentally impact their livelihood. Everything
from safety, their children playing outside random
gunfire. The idea of property values not being affected. I can tell
you, and I would think many of us could, if I'm considering buying someone's
property and I'm on site and all of a sudden I hear cascading gunfire and
I ask someone showing me, what is that noise? Uh, what's that coming from? Is somebody
just out shooting today? Oh no, that's, that's the gun range next door. Oh, what do they do
this once every month? No, they do it every day from sunrise to
sunset. I can tell you right now, the property value is gonna be detrimentally affected.
so whether they stay, they have detrimental impacts if they try to leave, it's
the same thing. So as you weigh all of these things, I just plead with you as
one who doesn't live right there, just listen to these neighbors. Whatever
economic boost or whatever that you'll hear about, weigh that against the detrimental
impacts and it's not worth it to me to trample them underfoot
and their concerns, the good neighbors of walton roads. So thank you.
thank you justin. Lacey.
justin had to go. I'm further down the list. Is it okay if I take his spot?
I'm jad mylab. Sure. Okay,
thank you. Um, and I'm chair,
uh, kim commissioners. My name is jad mylab. I work for lux
stone as land use and development manager. And I'm here today
on behalf of luck to voice our support to virginia sports parks,
uh, proposal on our property. Um, we believe that what
vsp is proposing will create a place, uh, a meaningful place
for the gland community and surrounding communities, uh, to get together, gather
and enjoy the outdoors, create long-lasting, uh, uh, uh,
memories with family and friends. Uh, and I believe these are some of the values
that what this county's all about. We also trust that, uh,
vsps leadership will manage our property and this project
and a very high level of professionalism, safety, and respect
to the community, to the neighbors, and to the environment and our
property. As a matter of fact, in the early stages of talking to
vsp and the board, when I was just representing lock stone and the real estate side,
I was impressed by all the things that, that they talked about.
the caring, you know, the mission, the things they would do to the
property and in the community that I asked to be on the board of esp.
and now I am one of, uh, uh, uh, the board members, uh, of
esp, uh, hoping to, you know, get this through in, in,
uh, uh, and actually, um, uh, get to see the site, uh, in action.
um, as you all know as well, lux stone is, uh,
uh, very, uh, keen on being a big part of the community
and engaged in, uh, in the community. We also, uh, care about
being good neighbors and we take pride of over 30,000 acres
that we own across four states, uh, virginia and
gland county, specifically being our home, uh, uh, turf. So
after reviewing all the professional studies that we saw from noise
testing to the, uh, uh, uh, tia and
I personally attended the, uh, shooting demonstration on monday,
um, we think that this will not impact the
community. Uh, you know, I I heard a lot of concerns today,
but we don't think that this is gonna be a negative impact. Um, uh, but
the opposite, we think it's gonna be a v very positive thing in the community,
and we don't, uh, think that it's gonna devalue our property. And for that,
we're hoping that the approval of this and the execution will only impact lux
stone's positive legacy that we, that we build, uh, anywhere
we go. So I appreciate everybody's time and consideration to making
this happen. Thank you all. Thank you.
lonnie. Bryce,
marcy reese.
hello, my name's marcy reese. I live at 4 1 3 5 shannon hill road.
I'm here to speak in favor of the vsp shooting park.
I've been a archery coach for the last 20 years. I've
been employed by usa archery and I'm a level four coach.
I certify other coaches. I work with jmu, um,
and I wanted to talk a little bit about safety and the benefits of the shooting
sports and what it can do for children. Um,
shortly, I wanted to also mention that somebody said something
about busting the kids out. Uh, school kids. I've
worked with collegiate for the last 10 years and steward school for the last six
years, and they will definitely bust the kids out. They do it all the time.
there's gonna be some tomorrow, by the way, at our place,
uh, mostly the opposition to the programs has to do with
fears about safety and certain things that's gonna happen
or that they think may happen. Archery ranks as one of the safest
recreational sports. The injury rates are extremely
low at a 0.35 per 1000
far below soccer, basketball, and even golf.
the nas program, national archery in the school program, which
has reached over 18 million students, reports zero accidents
in its history. Sporting clays and youth shotgun programs
emphasize rigorous safety training. The organizations
like the scholastic clay target program and four h sports require
certified instructors mandatory safety certification,
structured supervision, background checks, uh,
which result in incident rates comparable to
or lower than other youth sports. All activities would follow
strict protocols, certified coaches, one-on-one
supervision for beginners protective gear.
as a nonprofit program, they can
proprietary safety and the education above profit mirroring
successful models like usa archery's jo ad program.
I have a team of jo ad kids. We're going to jmu in february,
taking 22 kids to compete in indoor
nationals. So wouldn't it be great to have a facility here in gland
where we can draw people and these kids from all over the state to
come here and learn about the shooting sports? Thank you.
thank you. Thank you sonny williams.
my name is sonny williams. I live at 46 0 5 walton road.
uh, I've lived there for over 24 years. This area has remained very
peaceful, quiet, it's just a good country life. But if this gun
range gets approved, our lives will be changed.
we will be forced to deal with thousands of gunshots daily and increase
traffic. And this is coming from someone who works nights
and I'm losing work tonight being here. Um,
it's gonna be hard for me to sleep. Uh,
the sound study that was done the other day,
they say they didn't make much noise, but they did. I was at home.
I was through all of it. Um,
I want to ask y'all, how does this benefit the co the county?
is there a better location? You gotta ask yourself that. It's gotta be,
there's too many homes around this. Um,
and then the new news of the alcohol is really disturbing.
if they're promoting children coming to this busting children in, just as the lady just
spoke, how is children supposed to be there with, with alcohol?
how is that supposed to happen? I mean, I
don't wanna send my child over there if they're sitting around drinking
guns and alcohol. Just don't mix. That's my opinion.
so I thank you for your time. Thank
you. Joshua cather.
joshua cather, 1750 walton store road.
good evening, madam chair and commissioners referencing the guiding principles
of gland's 2035 comp plan regarding land use, specifically to promote
balanced development and preservation of rural character. Vsp as currently
proposed is like an unbalanced equation. First from page two,
it's harming the rural character of the community. Rural living is synonymous with sporadic
hunting and recreational gunfire, not the daily chronic punctuation of it in your
family homes. Second, from page two, my friends on
the other side have provided no articulable contributions to the welfare of the walton road
community. Only indeterminate reference to community bonding
vsp is emphatically for the enjoyment of those who will travel to vsp, to the detriment
of the community adjacent to facility. And third, from page three, quality
of life should be retained or enhanced without equivocation. Have
my friends proven this will not harm the immediate community in terms of lead traffic
and noise. Vsp has not articulated or qualified what the
increase to welfare of those living on walton will be as the comp plan directs.
and likewise, my friends have not provided articulable increases to or retention of
the quality of life of the walton community. Similar directives are found in gland
county zoning ordinance governing conditional use permits. If this, if this equation is
to be balanced, implementation of conditions found in the conditions and precedents
submitted by ms. Dalton is a sat satisfactory solution. There's
been a lot of emphasis on the youth centered mission of vsp and respectfully, it appears
much like a guise given the incongruity with the operating hours that
effectively prevent youth participation from some three quarters of operating hours
each weekday during the academic year. Urge the commission to envision yourselves
as in place members of the immediate walton road community and to impose the conditions
found in the conditions and precedents submitted by ms. Dalton. Thank you for your time.
thank you jerry weaver.
good evening, madam chair and commissioners.
my name is jerry weaver and I reside at 5,000 double
eagle drive in the estates at royal virginia.
I'm about approximately a mile and a half as the crow flies
and noise travels from the proposed site.
to date, vsp has not demonstrated in good faith that
this project will not impact surrounding property values
or diminished the use and enjoyment of nearby residential
properties due to noise. No limits have
been proposed on days of operation or hours of operation
with shooting being proposed from daylight to dark seven days
a week, 365 days a year. There's
also no guarantee that vsp will be
restricting the use of anything other than, uh, low charge
ammunition or otherwise limiting what types of loads of
ammunition may be used on site.
further, vsp has conducted no professional noise study
or credible simulation reflecting real world
operating conditions, including shots from real
shooting station placement and anticipated daily
activity. Without this data, there is no
reliable or accurate way to assess the true noise impact
on nearby neighborhoods.
vsp also provides or proposes shooting over wetlands
without presenting any lead mitigation plans or
water monitoring plans. There are no proposed
setbacks or perimeter fencing to protect neighboring children,
pets, or passing traffic as proposed. This
facility represents a significant health and
safety concern and would be an environmentally
unfriendly neighbor in our surrounding communities.
in addition, traffic congestion at the intersections of route
2 53 chopped road and walton road will
worsen substantially. Three. Chopped road and walton
road are already narrow roadways, effectively one
and a half lanes. They have no center line or
burn markings. Increased traffic will make these roads
more dangerous for residents, commuters, and school
buses alike. The traffic study provided is
at best incomplete and requires further review
and revision. Any one of these issues should
alone be submission sufficient to deter or
deny this permit taken together. They clearly
justify denial unless substantial changes are made.
in conclusion, I agree with the findings presented in the impact
suitability study and respectively urge the commissioners
to not to deny this application or at a
minimum, require the conditions outlined in cu
20 25 0 0 0 12
and the related conditions and procedures report submitted
to the commission be adopted. Thank you. Thank you for your time.
thank you. If stacy sson could come
to the podium and then on the front row, alicia kaiser,
jose leandro, sharon valencia, kara larson,
caleb shortridge, phil marat, dave martin,
and chris bracket. We will also need to take a little bit of a
break, ms. Parker. Um, and maybe after this applicant speaks, we need to take
a, take a five minute breather. Thank you. I appreciate that. Or applicant.
I'm so sorry. Citizen . Thank you. I deny I
withdraw my application. My apologies. . Good evening, madam chair
and commissioners. My name is stacy sellon and I live at 41 21
clay morris estates, which is a half mile from the proposed site. I, I
agree with the entire substance of the community impact and site suitability report
prepared by concerned neighbors of gland and louisa counties. And I urge the commission to deny
the application. The gland county staff report prepared for this meeting
identifies a number of outstanding concerns that remain unaddressed by bsp. Given this lack
of basic information related to environmental impacts and mitigation plans,
legitimate scientific sound studies and unaddressed traffic issues, the commission should
minimally defer consideration until vsp can resolve these outstanding issues.
I'd like to spend the remainder of my time discussing some very specific impacts that the proposed
range will have on my agricultural activities related to beekeeping.
I move to gland county specifically for the rural nature of the area and the clear appreciation
for the benefits of supporting local agricultural endeavors. My beekeeping journey began
in 2020 and my passion for beekeeping and its benefits to the survival of our food supply
and the overall environmental benefits of pollinators continues to grow. As my a
br expands. The goal is to offer local treatment-free honey to the larger gland community.
that is a use that is both in concert with the intended land use for our area and
in danger from the vsp proposal. Honeybees are known to forage up to five
miles from their hive, but will look for the closest abundant sources of pollen, nectar,
and water. The problem with lead shot being shot into this area
is not just about the soil, but also the fine particulates and dust that will clinging
to surrounding vegetation, contaminating forging areas, as well as the
fine dust entering sources of water that will not only potentially contaminate wetlands
and local wells, but also standing water used by bees and other insects and wildlife.
the most recent scientific paper on this issue is entitled heavy metal pollution from a shooting range
revealed by honeybees published november 25. They note that
honeybees can be employed to detect small localized aerosol sources such as shooting ranges
and that particles and components may be found in apiary products such as wax, proplus,
and even honey with supporting studies from 2006 2015 and
2021. Additional agricultural disturbances include an existing gland
business, our favorite newcastle b and berry farm located just across the road
from me. Three three chopped, which has you pick no spray. Strawberries and honey produced on their
property, both of which could be contaminated by the bsb project. Hg meats
is located approximately a half mile from the proposed site and will potentially have leg contamination
water sources, which would affect our local food supply relative to any animals processed at that
facility. Given the comprehensive plans focus on agricultural and rural enhancement
as well as the current zoning of the area, the commission should not approve any use that will
not be in harmony with the existing uses. As my neighbors have made it abundantly clear
this evening. The applicant has not proven the conditional use permit will not be injurious to
the use and enjoyment of other property in the immediate vicinity for the purposes
already permitted and therefore should be denied. And if anyone wanted to know about living
next to a quarry, I used to live in chesterfield county, um, in the
highlands community directly next to a quarry. It did not affect my life in any
way. , thank you. Thank you.
all right. Uh, we will take a five to seven minute
recess. Thank you. , no specifics.
oh,
again, I'll be here past the 11th. 15 mm-hmm . Mm-hmm
. Appreciate. Alright, good.
let's hope we can get over this. Keep it going. You do what? You,
you do you . I don't want
that's great. Alicia kaiser 10.
can I give it a minute?
keep going. Okay. Jose leandro
600, but I, I believe it's less than 500 foot from the station.
'cause my house is like a hundred foot from the property line. And, uh, they
try to propose this, uh, buffer, uh, protection. But
how they gonna maintain this in the wintertime when this all the leaves fell
down? You know, and I have three kids and they spend
the most time on the outside, you know, and, uh,
it's not safe because they want inspection. The ammo they bring
in, you know, I attend this stuff before, you know, I, I
I many times and I sponsor the am you know,
buy like eight bucks, you know, 8,000 round. And, uh,
we bring that thing in without inspection and burn
everything in a couple hours, you know? And, uh,
it's not safe. You know, if someone wanna bring their box shot, my kids can be dead right
there or me. And, uh, it's
how this is gonna work. It's too close to the house, you know? And,
uh, I'm not, don't build a house yet, you know, I still
have a pool to put over there how will be put a pool next to,
you know, you're gonna be withdraw the water for you can avoid that noise, you
know? And, uh, it's a lot of and, uh, mo
stuff. I, I am, um, gonna bring the animals, like the horses already start
fancy the proper, but it's, nobody's gonna bring the
horses to live, you know, live next to the sugar range.
you know, it's, I'm just trying to cover, you know, say what I, my
concern. But my neighbors already bring everything, all the concerns, you know.
but this question about safety, what they gonna build right there, the noise,
it's my house is a building on top of the hill. I can hear the hallway, I can see the cars
on the hallway, and they're gonna be between us. It's, I mean,
it's not safe at all. I'm
just high considerate you guys take that, you know, my safe because after
my kids, you know, got killed right there would not point to do
anything, you know, if this got approved, I cannot
live there anymore. Nobody can live in the house with this noise with the
16 station. Shoot two times that, you know, I tend this
all the time. I know how this work. It's pretty loud,
you know, I just wanted to make sure you, you know, thank you guys for your
time. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Sharon valencia.
good evening, madam chair and commissioners. My name is sharon valencia.
my husband and I live at 4 9 6 2 3 chop road
in, uh, well, obviously in goochland, although it
says louisa for mailing, um, we're like located
at the corner of three chopped and walton road.
um, the vsp proposed park
is, um, a half a mile from my home. If I stand
on my back deck, I can see the property. Um, which doesn't make
me happy. Um, I'm a, I'm
a gun owner, my husband is, my children are, their father
is, he's a trooper. He taught them to shoot, he taught them hunting.
he taught them gun safety, as I'm sure my, my rural,
um, neighbors do the same with their children. So I
know, I'm not sure whose children this is supposed to benefit.
I can let you know that my thoroughbreds that
I had, um, less than a year ago, did not take kindly
to the hunting going on near us. But those are my neighbors
and that's their property. So we lived with it. But now we're getting
ready to bring ponies, which are even more high strung than, um,
thoroughbreds, I think. And they're gonna react the same way
as the livestock, the wildlife, the family pets.
my neighbors, the neighbor's children. We moved out
from glen allen to be rural,
to not have to put curtains on, um, the windows. So that when we
looked out at night, it was pitch black and limited noise,
and we appreciate that. Um,
you know, I got to choose my property, okay?
and when I chose my property, I knew that I could hear I 64
from my property. I knew that I could hear the car racing on the
occasional saturday nights on broad street. I knew that, okay,
what? I didn't know that there would be a non-profit,
um, business coming in less than a half a mile from my home,
which brings no revenue to gland county.
so I just wanna know where the benefit is, and I stand with my
neighbors on walton road when I say, please deny this application.
thank you for your time. Thank you, kara
larson. Good evening.
my name is kara larson. I live at 4 6 3 8 walton road.
and, uh, speaking of a nonprofit that will not be bringing
economic revenue to the county, vsp as a nonprofit
will be tax exempt since they are planning on selling
firearms and renting firearms and selling munition, then there will be
some sales tax revenue that will go into the county. But this is
a measly amount. We've been told at neighborhood meetings that
the park would bring in customers to gland's, current
restaurants and hotels. To that, I say
what hotels, because last time I checked, the closest
chain hotel is either in short pump or in
zions crossroads, 14 miles away. The closest equivalent
is pleasant farm, llc, which is more akin to an airbnb
and not likely to be used by groups, especially groups
chaperoning children coming for a tournament or other such event
at the sports park, a search on google go maps for nearby restaurants
that were not gas stations, which while they do serve food and they
do serve at haydenville very good food, they do not have seating.
and as someone who has been a youth chaperone for youth events,
you want those kids sat, you preferably do not want them sat in
the rental car eating their food. And the nearest fast food
restaurant would be dairy queen 10 miles away, or hardee's here
at the courthouse 14 miles away. And again, zion's crossroads
14 miles away and out of the county is also another source
of restaurant options. And so with all of
these in mind, I do not see any way that there is
actual measurable economic boost to
the county because okay, they might be bringing in a few people to get
gas, get a few snacks at the gas station. There might be people who would be going to
the food trucks, invited to the sports park, but there's nothing in
the area that would actually attract them. There is nothing in the area that would actually
bring in reasonable county tax revenue. Thank you.
thank you. Caleb shortridge.
hello, my name is caleb shortridge. Uh, 2 4 8 7 juts bay road,
palatan. Um, I can understand people's,
uh, emotions and saying not in my backyard,
but I did have a shooting range in my backyard. Uh, I
grew up right next to where the palatan chapter four
h used to practice. Um, there's a ski range and a
rifle range about 500 yards away from my house I grew up
in. And we didn't see this as an issue. Later, I would
move on to join paan four h. I had to unfortunately
sit on the waiting list for several years because we were very limited in
facilities. So I see the opportunity that the sports park
can bring to the gland community that would allow, uh,
possibly four h kids, boy scouts, et cetera, to
use this facility and bring more kids into the shooting sports. Something
that's very impactful to my life. I shot, uh, competitively in
high school, took that into collegiate, um, and just
unfathomable about of, um, life lessons
that I've learned through the shooting sports. And I would hope the same opportunity
would be afforded to other kids. So there is a benefit in
this sports park. There may be inconveniences
as any project may experience, but I want you
to understand that there will be an impact to the community in a
positive manner. Um, so thank you for your time.
thank you, uh, phil murray.
good evening, madam chair and members of the, uh,
commission. My name is phil murray, and I reside at 1 2 8 6 7
holly lane in mannequin.
I appreciate the opportunity, I appreciate the opportunity to speak
on this project brought forth by virginia sports park, and I'll
speak on the issue of hours of operation for
this proposed facility. There seems to be
continued confusion about what the hours are.
operating hours are not the same as shooting hours.
the facility needs time to set up before shooting and
clean up after shooting is ceased. Shooting hours
are tuesday through sunday, 9:00 am to sunset.
there is no nighttime shooting, and it's not dawn to
dusk. There is no shooting 365
days a year that we've heard so much of no
shooting. 365 days a year. Sporting clays are closed,
um, to the public on mondays, which is reserved
for tournaments only. And should there be a tournament,
it usually lasts two hours and is generally scheduled in the mornings.
the facility will be closed on new year's day, thanksgiving day,
christmas and easter. It will be open
on memorial day, labor day, veterans day and
president's day.
there seems to be a misconception that sporting clays,
sporting clay parks produce a continuous barrage of
gunfire from morning to dusk, 365 days
a year. That could be, that could, that could not be further
from the truth. Perhaps the best comparative
analysis of a sporting clay park is a golf course
similar to a golf course. A sporting clay park sees a variance
of attendance during weekdays as compared to traffic inter,
uh, is intermittent during weekdays, and shows somewhat increase
during the weekend. A typical round of sporting
clays takes a person approximately two hours. Usually
the patron departs shortly after completing the course. Now, as
a result, traffic is anticipated to be light or at minimum,
it is my understanding that vsp for projects
20 to 25 patrons during the weekday and 40
to 70 during the week, uh, weekend day.
additionally, during winter months on inclement weather,
inclement weather days, statistically the activity
of sporting clay courses is much less
and is weather dependent. Thank you for the opportunity
to speak to you tonight, and I urge you to vote for this,
uh, this evening to approve this project. Thank you very much.
thank you
members of the planning commission. Thank you for the opportunity to speak this evening.
my name is dave martin, 7 7 0 1 hollands road in henrico in
from henrico. I'm here speaking in support of the
virginia sports park project as an eagle scout,
a youth services provider, and someone who believes deeply
in the value of outdoor programs for young people
and families. Growing up, my summer camp was at
boy scout camp brady saunders up the road.
that was where I first shot my, I first shot my bow, and I first shot my,
I shot my first bow and arrow and fired my first shotgun.
scouting taught me responsibility, disciplines, safety,
conservation, and leadership. Those lessons were
not learned in a classroom. They certainly were not learned on
tiktok or nintendo. They were learned outdoors under
supervision with structure, accountability, and purpose.
goochland is one of those special places where people thrive on enjoying
the outdoors, horseback riding, fishing, hunting, farming
pursuits that bring families together and create lifelong memories.
I believe we need more opportunities for grandparents, parents, and
children to make those memories together, using the
natural resources of this county in responsible ways.
virginia sports park offers this opportunity that opportunity
facilities like this build lifelong lessons through discipline, sport,
sports, such as arch archery and shooting sports. They
emphasize safety, focus, and patience.
they teach respect and personal responsibility.
these are not casual activities. They are structured,
supervised, and professionally managed facilities like this
are essential. As someone who works with youth, I can tell
you that not every child thrives on traditional team sports
programs like this reach kids who need a different path to
confidence and growth. They provide belonging, skill
building and mentorship in a controlled environment.
I would also, oh, that's it for that. I would also like to respectfully
address the question before you tonight. I urge this commission to
make a decision and not defer. Deferral does not help the
youth and families who could benefit from this project. It does not help
the applicant, and it does not serve the public interest.
scouting taught me that leadership requires the courtesy to act,
to make decisions based on standards, evidence, and fairness,
and to do so in a timely way so others can benefit.
my understanding is that the commission will determine whether this project meets
zoning standards and serves the public fairly and
consistently. Making a decision allows the process to move forward
through its national natural conclusion. That is how I tru
trust in local government is maintained. Thank you for
your time and service. Thank you,
chris bracket. And then if we could have to the front,
morris grimes, mike callan, wayne menti,
herb tci jr. Manny alvarez, walt raymond.
wow, good evening. Almost morning .
um, I didn't prepare anything tonight. Uh, I I I just wanted
to, uh, voice my opposition of this. Uh, I'm sorry, I
I didn't start with my address. So, chris, bracket , 4 0 5 0 lake killarney.
I am roughly within two miles of the proposed, uh, facility.
um, you know, I'm a family of seven. I have five kids under
the age of eight when they can shoot a gun, every single one of 'em will.
maybe not with beer in the facility, but, uh, at some
point, I, I, I really think that, um,
I, I really think there's a great idea, but where it's going to,
you, you hear tonight, I am so proud of my fellow neighbor. Everybody has come
together. I'm meeting new people. This is just not the right area.
there. There has to be a better solution. I don't know how to provide
that, but there's just, this is, to them, it is just a business deal.
they're all gonna go back to richmond midlothian. They're gonna go all over. This is our lives,
you know, this is will impact us forever. And this is generations of family
with, you know, with multiple kids everywhere. I, I, I just
ask and plead that there has to be a better option.
and I, I, I really hope that you, uh, reject this proposal.
thank you very much for your time. Thank you.
I'm morris grimes.
uh, I'm definitely not morris rims madam chair. Um, morris rims and mike colon
are with glin gun works. Their alarm just went off and they had to run right out
the door. They're asking if they, they're coming back, if they could just still speak
and reserve their time if, if the public comment is still open at that time. Yes. Thank you. I appreciate
it. Thank you. Um, wayne menti,
herb deci.
I'm herb deci jr. From 1 3 9 3 0 elm
stead road, middle . I had prepared notes, but
I'm now gonna speak more or less, but extemporaneously commenting
on some of the things I've already heard tonight. Okay. We
talked about children not being available. I'm a member of cavalier. We
have plenty of children. I don't know where they're getting them from.
I don't know how they get there. But when I go out to shoot, I see children,
groups of children, organized groups of children. Okay?
so we have got 'em. I suppose you would be able to get
them too. We talked about safety.
safety has come up several times. Do you think
we want to be unsafe to each other? We're the
ones standing right there. You think that we're going to
let, we should never let a, any projectile
coming out of our, our guns go off the property. Now,
there was some talk about that earlier today, but I, I can assure
you, it's not going to happen. We don't want it to happen.
okay? Now, a lot of this comes down to
noise. And we want this study. We want that study.
this is my fourth time getting involved in something like this.
okay? Noise is calculated on log grid measured
on a logarithmic scale. It's nonlinear. So it's not, whether
it's 37 or 42 or 52 or whatever it is,
it's because now you can stand in your backyard. All we're doing is
assigning a number to what you've already heard, or you can
easily hear, hear did you hear the noise?
okay. Now,
some comments about drinking. We're not gonna drink and shoot guns
at the same time. We talked about fundraisers. Some of the fundraisers
being done, were done by the goochland rotary club, but they were done somewhere
else. I have to be quick. Okay? Comments were
made of shooting underpowered, uh, a low powered ammunition. And the
example was shooting high powered ammunition. Most people don't shoot,
they shoot. The more of 'em will shoot low than high. I shoot one ounce.
okay, let me see what else I've got here.
I hear the, here are the ra, the, the term gun range used gun range, gun range,
gun range that has specific meaning to people who actually
shoot on gun ranges. This is not a gun range in the traditional
sense in that we're not shooting rifles and pistols, which have
different sound characteristics. Uh,
360 shot fall. We're generally shooting
within a confined area. You can't, you step into a shoot box
and you can't turn, can't turn with the gun. You can't get it
around behind you. You load when you're standing in the chute box.
there's a, I understand. Thank you all for your consideration,
. I appreciate all of y'all that have spoken tonight, even though I
disagree with many of you. Thank you. Y'all have a nice night. Thank you.
manny alvarez. How does you know yet?
shocked madam chair, members of the commission, thank you for being
out here. I know you're tired. I just want to, we heard a lot about
ora packs this evening, and I was in your seat when
on the board of supervisors when that hearing came up. And if,
uh, you're going to try to beat our record, you need to be here till about 2:30 am mm.
hopefully you're not . But anyway, I, I had some notes, but I want
to respond to some of the things that I heard tonight. One of them
was, or packs, um, or packs.
we put a lot of restrictions on it, and because of that, it never
happened. If I had to go back and do it again, I would not have voted
so many restrictions into it because I thought it was a good facility.
but we kind of heard the, a lot of the emotional comments from
people. Nobody would've heard orax, maybe paan
might have. Um, the, mr.
dyson did a great job with his data, but
one of the things he mentioned was a lot of the other ranges, um,
skit shooting ranges were built when there were no homes around them.
yet, hundreds of homes were built around the ranges. So that, that
means that the range itself didn't affect property values and didn't scare
people from building next to them. Um, one thing
that I have fought for, and I think you guys agree with, and
I know you do, is we need to preserve the rural nature of the county.
and in order to do that, we need to allow people to have some value
from their land. Farming is not, uh, an easy,
uh, profession. I'm also a member of cavalier. Uh, we've
heard a lot about comparisons. In ca cavalier, you can shoot
cannons pretty much. They have a 1500 foot range,
so you have to shoot something with, with quite a lot of power. And there are
many neighbors on the, on the road, in and around the, the location.
um,
uh, one of the things that I heard a few people mention is, uh, the
president's setting. As you know, zoning cases are individual
cases. They do not set precedent. Another,
um, skit shooting range across the street from this one might
not be approved because by then you have another one to compare with.
um, and so and so, so that's not an issue. And,
um, lead, there are, I think, nine
abandoned lead mines in gland. Those are mines
that are underground. They're a lot closer to the water tables than, than
any shot. And when I was campaigning for office back in 2011,
so 15 years ago, one of the things that I heard from a lot of people was,
why don't we have a place where we can shoot our guns? Not everybody in gland has
5, 10, 15 acres and they're not allowed to shoot in their backyard. So
I'll just leave you with that. Thank you for doing your job.
I wouldn't want it today. So, , thank you,
walt raymond. And then if carmela bear, landon
bear or ryan brown would like to come to the front.
good evening everybody. Uh, my name is walt raymond. I live at 46 23
park avenue in richmond. Uh, and I just want to express my support for
bsp. And you'll, excuse me, 'cause I'm on my phone. My printer wasn't working.
uh, the subject property is located on walton road adjacent to 64, consisting
of approximately 85 of almost 700 acres that lux stone has there, which
is currently permitted for a quarry. It's currently
zoned a two in the surrounding area, is characterized by
low density rule uses, including agriculture, residential,
and recreational activity. Consistent with the
county's rule and use framework, it immediately
signals compatibility. For this use, not an exception.
the intent of the agricultural district is to preserve rural land,
allow working landscapes and accommodate agricultural and recreational uses
that are compatible with load density development. The size
of this parcel, its setbacks, topography, and existing vegetation
and, uh, natural buffering that supports compatibility with surrounding properties.
the proposed use is organized, supervised, and limited in scope,
distinguishing it from unmanaged or, um, intensive
commercial activity. This is exactly how the gland
staff describes acceptable rule use.
excuse me, I lost my place.
this is a limited structured and supervised recreational use with defined
hours, condition, and conditions. It is not an open access commercial operation
and scale intentionally constrained to remain compatible with
the surrounding area. Keep in mind that, uh, we,
that archery for the youth will be a significant part of this project
and will have no impact at all on the surrounding area. Besides bringing youth, uh, both
education, um, and an outlet besides a nintendo
or getting outside and the outdoors, the application
includes specific conditions regarding, um, hours, frequency,
supervision and mitigation. Those conditions provide enforceable limits and
give the county ongoing oversight. Vsp has
responded to the neighbors who are concerned by ensuring that the concerns are
addressed through reasonable conditions and obje and objectable standards, while
also recognizing that zoning anticipates lawful rule activity
may not be universally preferred. As far as establishing
a precedent is concerned. This reinforces the principle that rural
recreational uses are evaluated based on zoning intent and
evidence, not opposition alone. Each further application would still
need to be judged on its own merit denial would require fi
uh, findings to the use fails, excuse me,
findings that use the fails to meet zoning standards or
creates unreasonable impacts by supported by evidence. Absent that
denial risk, inconsistent inconsistency with past practices
and zoning intent. I'll stop there 'cause it's late. Thank you guys for your time. Thank you.
carmela beer. Landon beer,
ryan brown, um, and morris grimes
or mike callan.
good evening. Appreciate everyone staying late. Uh, I'm here to speak
as a, I'm sorry. My name is mike kalan and I'm 29 78
river road west. Um, I'm here to speak as a business owner in the area.
uh, and the impact for businesses, uh, I own gland gun works
and as a business owner, I obviously, I see this as being a, a big positive to
our industry. Um, I'm an an avid clay shooter.
uh, I love archery. And if many people have mentioned, um,
I think the archery side is getting overlooked because archery is such a, a great
resource for, for children, uh, and adults alike. It teaches, uh,
a lot of great things about, um, safety and
structure and things of that nature. And I think this would be a, a great, uh, asset
to the county, um, with us out, not having to take our business outside
of the county. Uh, my family's been in goland since day
one. Uh, we still own and operate a family farm here in goland, and it's something
that we take a lot of pride in. So seeing this stuff coming to gland county and having
a place for children to learn firearm safety. I
remember the good old days when we used to have gun racks coming on our, in our trucks, going to to
gland middle school, and we got the day off or reverend day hunting season. And that stuff is
just not taught anymore. And having a place like this where children can learn proper gun
safety, um, proper gun handling, I think the,
the benefits of those things outweigh the negatives. Um, children need
to learn about firearms, you know, especially if you live in a rural area where people are out shooting.
we see a big problem in the hunting world with, with
gun safety. We see kids are, they're, they're not using proper
practices. And I think it's because of a lack of education. I don't know the,
the, the gentlemen that are starting this very well. I just know them just from, from coming here. But
what I've, I've heard multiple times is safety, safety, safety. And as a father of
three sons, I love that there's somebody else out that wants to teach safety to our
children for guns. Teach 'em a sport. That's a great sport. It's a healthy sport
to get 'em out. Walking around on trails and shooting guns and
shooting archery. Um, it's just a, a fantastic thing and it, it teaches so
many good things. Um, really that, that, that was all I had. So that's my
time. Thank you. Thank you.
would anyone else like to speak ?
I'm jim christian. I'm, I live at 1950 cartersville road, mineral
address. I'm two miles north of this location.
and lemme tell you how the sound travels a few times a month when the wind's
right, I can hear the interstate like it's 500 yards away
and it is gonna be a noise concern for oseland because when we're shooting on
our farm over there, I'm over a hundred acre farm. When we're shooting over there, I got a
friend that lives over here just, uh, east of haydenville
fire department. He calls me up, he says, you guys are shooting again. He can hear us
two miles, two and a half miles to his house. I know exactly because I got an app on my
phone. He tells how far these distances are and I checked it before I got here.
he's two and a half miles away. He can hear us shooting s***t. So you can speak
about a half mile all you want, put some berms up. You're not gonna stop this sound
and it's gonna hurt your county because most of the time the wind's carrying back
into the county, carrying onto this side, not north wind. Like I get when
I can rarely hear the interstate. Most of the time I'll be lucky in my house, it won't
be that noisy. And as far as the creek, it comes across our property.
deep creek does. And you guys are wasting your money
if you're gonna put that much lead dust on top of the ground. It's coming in that creek and that
creek has a lot of flow. And, uh, I'm gonna just call the
epa and put them on it. 'cause I don't want it, I don't want the noise pollution. I hate to see
this. The only people I see coming up here that are in favor, they don't wanna live here.
so your county's not benefiting at all. This is, uh, you really ought to vote
for it, like you live 500 yards away because
it's detrimental to your county. Thank you. Thank you.
would anyone else like to speak? I,
all right, I will now close the public comment period.
um, okay.
um, would the applicant like to, to speak or do, uh,
any, any last comments before we we start to comment?
I just had a couple of closing comments. Um, I know it's
been a very late night for everybody, and we appreciate your time. Um, uh,
I did get a message from ryan brown, who is the head of the division of
wildlife resources, and he just wanted to relate to you that if you have any
questions about partnering with certain programs that, uh, dwr
was looking to program with us, he's happy to answer those questions. He was here to basically
advise the, the panel of that. Um, but he
unfortunately had to leave. He has a meeting in the morning at seven o'clock in richmond.
um, I just wanted to recap pretty
much and just say that, you know, there's a lot that was put out, and I
honestly tell you that I think my brain is fried, and I don't think I could address every rebuttal that
that was there. But generally speaking, uh, I would say
the, you know, we have conducted a professional sound
study that is in front of you, and I know that we, we sent it to you as soon as we got
it. So we urge you to take a look at that as well.
uh, we have, uh, basically when it comes to environmental,
uh, as mr. Lifer said earlier that this is an issue of
basically to look at whether or not this is the right
use for the zoning. We will be governed by
agencies moving forward in the pod phase. In the, in the site plans, there
will be, uh, agencies that we have to report to get their approval on this.
so this, with all respect, I say this, I ask that this is
probably not the place where you make a decision on lead or you
make a, uh, and I do urge you to look at the noise. Um,
having said that, I I, I'm happy to answer any questions that I possibly can at this point,
and I'm sure you all want to go home as well, but if you have questions, we can
try to address it for you.
well, one of the things I'm wondering about is what are the hours, or
not necessarily the hours, but the days of operation, we are
actually being asked to approve here. I mean, I, I, I happy to
ask you that. I mean, I hear that mondays are off, or is that, are seven days
a week? What? No. So what's going on? So, great question. Lemme
clarify that for you. Yeah, so let me just leave monday off for just one second and
address tuesday through sunday first. Alright. Is it what? Okay. Yeah. So our,
what we have responded to the initially submitted and then also responded to the county.
and we have seceded in some, some of the timings and everything as well. Uh,
tuesday through sunday is what we're proposing coming back 9:00 am till sunset.
all right. Shooting hours, that's what we're talking about. Shooting hours.
we have to cease shooting before it gets dark, pretty
much. Mm-hmm . Um, mondays sporting clays close to
the public, just tournaments, then solely reserved for the
tournament. Okay. Tournaments we're gonna have. The tournament
could happen most of the time. It happens in the morning, and if it happens it's two hours. There
may be an afternoon, but we're not, we've also succeeded saying we're not gonna do two tournaments
on a monday. So there'll be one tournament, majority of them being
in the mornings, and it's reserved for that. Okay. Alright. That helps. Thanks.
thank you. . Could you clarify the difference between
a tournament and an event, and would you have events on monday? Also,
events are generally, uh, what fundraisers?
corporate events, uh, uh, let's say fundraisers
such as, uh, charitable events, uh, for the rotary, for
any youth organizations, basically something like that. Uh, tournament
is a sanction tournament, for example, by the nsca. So national sporting
clay association, they generally are
and can be sometimes larger, sometimes not. Can be, they can be 60, they
can be more. The thing about nsca sanctioned tournaments is that
we're not guaranteed to, uh, tournaments from them. They get
together. So almost like they're dishing out pieces of the pie almost on a monthly basis.
so if you have about seven sporting clay ranges, uh, within a few hours
in this area, they're gonna get divvied up. We may get one a month,
and if we don't get that, we may get one every two months. So
that's where that comes in basically is, is, is a sanctioned tournament.
fundraisers and general events are always gonna be smaller than, basically
they're usually 125 or less. Generally much smaller than that usually. Alright. Are
those monday activities though, or are those the tuesday through sunday activities? Those are generally
tuesday through sunday activation. Okay. Now, in the event, so monday is only
these tournaments, it's tournament. We have, we have asked that if, for example,
there is an event that can only happen, we would seek
a permission from the county on that. Alright. A non tournament event
that if somebody wants to hold and it's not something that is, they'll call
us, uh, thursday and say we want to have it on monday. This is well planned
out usually in advance. So we would seek approval on something like that.
does that answer your question? Yes, thank you. You, would you speak to intentions
with alcohol and how that would be managed? I heard that concern.
good question. Um, if you go to, uh, a handful
of places, um, where alcohol is not served
while they're shooting going on, first and foremost, just to be clear about that, we're not walking
around like bunch of rednecks walking with a can in our
hand shooting with guns on our hips. That's not what happens. What
happens is generally if there is, if there is state controls,
that, and the second thing is this. There has to be a, we pulled
a day permit, uh, uh, day license, excuse me, by the, from the a,
b, c. There are three commissioners that sit on the a, b, c commission. So it
is not an easy thing to get all the time. If there
is this a, let's just say eli lilly wishes, or carl max
wishes to hold a corporate event, they have 50 people coming for teamwork.
they will have a round shooting, and then after that, after shooting
ceases, they'll be served if the, whatever they, they're basically they
want at that point. Most of this is something that we don't get our
hands in. This will be done by outside vendors.
so the outside vendors lay, say a food truck that is licensed to sell alcohol
may show up. Alright. So you are not planning on pursuing a, a,
a, uh, alcohol license. If the state says
that even for someone else to come in and serve, that you have to get a day license, then we
will get a day license at that point. Alright. Okay.
talk to me about the, um, the, the load,
um, concerns with the, was it seven eights, uh, versus,
uh, one one and an eighth? One and an eighth? Good question section. Yeah, it was
on my list to discuss about rebuttals and I, I, again, I no, you're good. Thank you for reminding
me of that. The seven, eight and one
ounce are the two we shot. So the contrary to the one photo that was shown,
we shot two loads and we sent the picture to
I think miss sherry. And, uh, mr. Kim, uh, had the photo of that.
those are the most popular
loads used on a sporting clay course. And I'll tell you why that is.
you have a lot of people that show up with shotguns that
are not $200 shotguns. They might be 80,
$90,000 shotguns. You, you will never
see that person put one and an eighth load in there.
the one and eighth load is the range maximum.
could someone use it? Sure. Are you all of a sudden gonna jump
outta your seat, say, oh my god, what was that? No, but the,
the most common are seven eights and one ounce.
and that's what, that's basically what is used. So what we wanted to do
was to do a realistic live demonstration. And that is
the two most common loads. But we picked the worst conditions,
which was the coldest day. No leaves, no burns, no construction at all. So,
so noise obviously would travel more at that point.
was its, was it advantageous of you to do the lightest
load or should it have been the heaviest load, though? Not
most common could happen
when you did your demonstration. When we did our demonstration, we also
utilized the one ounce, which is used probably we
use seven eights and, and, and one ounce. That is the
most common that is used out there. But if you look up, if you just
were to do the anatomy of a shotgun shell and it's load, if you were
to google that, maybe in the first or second article that pops up,
you'll see seven, eights, and one ounce. The most traditional
and commonly used loads that are on there. So yes, we wanted to
use what's going to be used most often. We can't
stop somebody from using one and one eight because it's a realistic load, for example.
now probably the percentage of people using that load
is low. The pe the percentage of people using a combined seven eights and one
ounce is incredibly high. I would say probably in excess of 70%.
and that's a speculation. I have not pulled data on that. That's without
pulling data. Sure. Thank you. Yes,
I, I do agree that I, I think it would've been best if you brought
out the, the, the baddest permissible load.
not the most common load, if I may. Uh, it's actually a good point. In hindsight,
we look back, I think it may not be a bad idea to see how much noise
that would ed. Yeah, yeah, that's, and I, I'm not sure how much difference there
is, but it did sound like, I mean, I was standing with you when the neighbor was shooting
and you were saying that can't be permissible load. So
you know what I said, uh, on that, that was they were shooting from high
ground. That's right. You, they're shooting in our direction more
or less high ground. When we shot, you were down in the bowl. We were in the
bowl, we shot at the also from the closest station. Right. But we
shot out toward the away shooting away makes that big
of a difference. Yeah. I I I, yeah, I get it. Yeah. So I, and I would say,
in order to scientifically maybe answer that question, if I'm gonna put our
acoustic expert on the spot to say, hey, we, this is
what we measured, and if you used from a one ounce to a
went to a one in one eight ounce, this could be the
possible decibel rating increase. I, if I could ask mr. Thomas
if he's able to answer that with, sure. Come on in.
you feel comfortable making a off the cuff well assessment
there. I'll try. So it, it's hard to
really make that determination. All right. Without doing
the sampling and data. Right. Um, as I mentioned earlier,
you know, this was, uh, to
determine an exposure assessment. Uh, when exposure assessments
are done, it sets a base on, on what's to be
expected. As I indicated earlier, my recommendation
would be if, if this proceeded, um, to
do additional testing, that's one thing we discussed so that we could,
you know, um, have the data moving forward.
you'd asked the question about elevation, does it affect it? Mm-hmm . That's, that's
one thing you want to do is not only measure the ground level, but the elevation
as well. It's not gonna be much difference in my experience with the,
the different types of ranges. And I've dealt with police ranges, federal
ranges, um, in the decibel change
for that. But definitely loads can affect, um,
the change in decibel readings. But until you do the sampling, you just
don't have that data. Thank you. If I may add the other thing, you know, that
would make a difference for a, um, uh, follow up test just for our
baseline purposes, after, uh, say the course is constructed
at that point, now we have, we have berms, we have
vegetative buffers, we have more tree plantings, we have structures
that are gonna be on the property. All those will make a difference at that point as well. Yeah.
do you wanna make any comment about, I mean, there were, there were several people that said
financial benefit to the county. Like there won't be any, do you, do you want to address
that at all? I don't wanna get into too much detail, but the main thing about that
is this, this is a legitimate, yeah. It certified 5 0 1 c3 by
the irs code. Right. Not a very easy designation
to get, we spent almost a year fighting, not fighting, but going back and forth
with the irs and getting that the economic
development, this is, so this is an identified need through the survey
that was done for the master plan, uh, target sports. So it
is a priority, basically need that's been identified in the gland county
for its master plan for parks and rec. This will bring
people into the county. When you have people that come into the county, they do a lot of things. They,
they buy stuff in the county, they purchase gas, they stick
around. They may go to different venues, possibly they may go to a local brewery, they may go
to the winery down the road. So there are a lot of things. So there is basically
what I would call a, you know, a collateral, uh, increase that, that, that comes
into it at that point. Um, we're gonna have positions created.
they'll definitely be about four full-time positions,
starting with two go to four, and then a handful of part-time positions that'll be created in the
county as well. Uh, that, so a lot, a lot of benefits when it comes to
that part of it. So we're generating jobs,
if you think about it. I mean, if I've been an entrepreneur most of my life, if I can generate
10 jobs in each, in each company, in each location that I have, I know
it doesn't sound like a big number, but that's what to do. We contribute to the
economy. Alright, thank you. Yes, sir.
so a big thing is still the noise. Sorry, a big thing.
I have to make more noise. A big thing is still the noise. Everybody's talking about
it. Yes. And I think if people are comfortable that there's an acceptable
noise le level, a lot of other things tend to fall away.
um, you know, if you don't hear it, you don't see it, you don't
smell it, it's really not happening. Right.
um, except for environmental stuff. But, um,
what, what can you do to help people
feel comfortable with noise? And maybe, maybe mr. Thomas
is gonna get his steps in. He might have to help out with this, but, you know, I, I think all
of us are kind, struggling with that a little bit.
so there, I'll, I'll bring mr. Thomas back up. But one of the things I would say with that
is, is I, a shotgun sport
will never occur without a certain amount of noise. That's just, that is a reality.
we know that. So noise will be generated to what extent
you have to look at it, whether it's background noise or it's really irritating
noise at 95 decibels hitting your house. Basically
at that point, I think through the sound test, we have concluded
that the noise level generated over an eight hour course is gonna
be, uh, what was it? Four? I, I don't wanna speak for him, but 50 decibels,
something, I can't remember what it was, but much lower than anticipated.
right now, it may speak, I'm probably speaking at a 70 decibel, 65 to
70 decibels right now. Pretty much, if you have a
faint background noise, just like a freeway becomes background noise,
that is something, and it's in acceptable levels, that is not damaging
below osha requirement. But also, our study came back pretty
low in the fifties. I'd say that we are at a very realistic
level. Well, this is not a nuisance by any means. So,
you know, if a truck going by on the freeway hitting
this jake brakes, I guarantee you you're gonna spike in the eighties right off the bat
from the homes. But that's my speculation. When
I went there for the informal test, I just took my, uh, informal
map and I heard some trucks go by high seventies just
standing there on the service road. Mm-hmm . And when the shotgun fire
gave us in the fifties, I thought we were in a good spot,
basically. Okay. But I, I, again, I, I'm, this is my observation. I'll
let mr. Thomas speak a little more of that. So
testing can be repeated. What we did is a triangular pattern,
um, to try and represent the event. An event.
um, there is different strategic setting up
the samples, line pattern, sampling the closest residents,
setting up sampling on their doorsteps, um,
you know, to, to try and help the community to
feel better with that. Um, I'll do all the testing in the world as
long as somebody's paying me to do it, you know, but, um,
but realistically, you know, I'm here as an independent third
party consultant. That's what we do. Um,
repeating the testing, adding different sampling points, getting
closer to the residents would, would be something that, you know, I would
recommend from listening to everyone here tonight, it, it is one
of the bigger concerns, um, aside from the lead concerns.
um, so that, that would be my recommendation. Repeat the testing as
I mentioned before, but we can implement different data
points, if you will. Um, and, you know,
sampling it, it's ideal. Um, the more
sampling we can get to represent it, represent the testing
is better. I don't know how, how long somebody's gonna sit there for eight hours shooting
with a shotgun. I'm sure their shoulder might be kind of sore afterwards,
but, but you wanna represent what's actually gonna
occur on the site. Um, so I think, you know, we can do some additional
testing with the approval, um, to try and
maybe provide more data. Um, like I said, I,
I know there's a home very close, you know, to the property line
with, if that homeowner gives permission to do testing and, and
we would want, you know, their permission. I'm not gonna walk on someone's property without
the permission, but to do the testing, um, you know, we
would have a representative designated at that sampling point
to make sure there's no other interferences, um,
or documenting what else is going on. Um, you know, we had
a couple of the data points, you know, when we were looking at
the analysis of it, the analytics of it, um,
we could tell that there's a four-wheeler, you know, that was utilized
that actually gives the different peaks that we could sit there and
look at to analyze, um, the interstate, even though
you may not hear it, there is noise that is coming from that interstate
as well that that's picked up as part of the analytics reviewing all
of that. So, so we could definitely do some additional data points. Um,
you know, but I, you know, the data that we have, I stand by
that it's acceptable data that is less
than the standards that are, um, regulate
these activities. So I guess the variable is
how well did I have it off? My voice
is getting tired. I guess the variable is, once it's developed, would
that change the sound transmission properties? And if it does at that point
and it rises to a level, what, what do we do? I, from, from
what I have read, I think what's the,
the improvements that will be made as part of the site will,
uh, assist in reducing the noise
level, the installation of the berms, even, you know, installing
structures on the site. Those are all things that helps
reduce that noise being generated by the shotgun shooting.
so if, if I may, sorry. You know, given
the levels that are right now, and we've done basically two informal and
one formal test, and I, I, I come to like,
it's, I don't know if, if the crowd will still be happy with,
with another result, but a testing, basically, I think having two
informal readings, which it almost line with the formal test.
and as we implement measures for additional sound mitigation,
that's only going to help at this point. Keep in mind, we're a nonprofit.
we have not had a capital campaign yet. So I like to be very frank about
that. This stuff costs a lot of money. But at the same time,
we wanna make sure that we've done a, a formal test and our
sound, uh, experts seem to stand by. I the numbers
seem to be in line and well below.
what would, um, uh, what would be considered a nuisance? You know, if
we were spiking at 75, 80, I would definitely say
we got a valid reason to look at a few things.
we are, we're in the low f low fifties, high forties, mid fifties.
mid fifties. I think that's below. I mean, if I were to pull out my,
I know this is not accurate, but a, the reader on the app right now,
I would exceed mid fifties right off the bat
and, and just all set a state. 'cause I had heard earlier tonight,
um, about calibration of the equipment.
all of our equipment was calibrated. It's, um,
all serial numbered. Each one is calibrated before and after use.
so just to mention, know that as well. A little more valid than my iphone
was. Hmm. Yes. I would not use my iphone
. Alright. Thank you. Thank you.
we're good. Thank you very much. Appreciate your time. Thank you.
um, before we do get
started with talking, um, my utmost respect to each and every one
of you, um, that was held wonderfully.
there was no side comments. There was, you know, nothing that we had to,
to, to kind of distract ourselves from. So I thank you for being a
great community and for being respectful to a wide variety of opinions.
um, and, uh, speakers that came up. That was, that was,
it was really nice to see. Um, agreed. Um,
I think we'll just probably, do you wanna start, uh, mr. Dean and we'll just kind
of talk and, you know, converse back and forth, whatever concerns or
questions. Citizen comment. Hmm. Did you close the
citizen comment? I did. Okay. Yeah. Alright. Thank you madam
chair. Um, one thing I was excited to see is I
think we all agree on the benefits mm-hmm . We don't all agree
on the location necessarily, but I think, um, it's a great purpose
and, uh, I think everybody in the room would like to find a way to get to yes. That's, that's amenable
for everyone. Um, but I think there's a lot of fear of
the unknown still. I think some folks are asking questions
just 'cause they don't know the answer, and I respect that.
um, I also respect that the applicant is being,
uh, diligent with their resources and not spending
'em before they need to. Um, I, I honor that,
that's a prudent, uh, use of their, their not-for-profit funds or
future funds. Um, but I, I had hoped
at this point we'd be more converging than
diverging or being parallel in our alignment of some of the thoughts. And so
I think there's some areas that, um, that we might need to, uh,
talk about. There's also many, we probably,
in my opinion, don't need to talk about. So if I can just talk
about some of the ones we don't need to talk about and why I believe that. Um,
and that's, this is just my opinion based on, uh, what I've come to
know. One of them is, uh, the
environmental stuff. The applicant's gonna have to,
as they've said, go through a lot more hurdles than we could throw in front of them. Um,
they are required, uh, per their testimony to have an
environmental stewardship plan. Um, I have great confidence in
the luck companies to manage them to that the companies have
a lot to lose if things don't go well. So that, um,
that provides me at least some comfort and assurance that it will be managed and it will be done
properly. Um,
I do have a question that the applicant might be able to address just to make sure that,
uh, the monitoring management and mitigation would persist in the
event that the business ceased. Uh, for some reason,
and I know that, uh, some folks have had, uh, uh,
serty bonds to assure that I don't know what arrangement they may suggest.
um, but the environmental, I wouldn't be too worried about. Um, as
far as
trespassing and, uh, signage, uh, I do like the idea
of something a little more, uh, proactive for young kids.
um,
hours of operation. Again, if the noise mitigation can be, uh,
if everybody can get comfortable with that, um, you know, again,
the hours become less of an issue. But I do appreciate
that, uh, that having some respite from, uh,
the noise from the facility would be beneficial. I think.
I think the weather and just usage will provide a lot of that. I don't,
I, uh, I commented to the applicant that they would
be lucky to be busy 365 days a year. That would be a great business.
I don't think it, I don't think that will be the case.
I do think a lot of things, uh, will be addressed in the pod. I don't
know that, uh, we necessarily have to, um,
restrict anything, uh, that the co that, that the, uh, pod process
is going to, uh, go through such as the phasing and
conceptual plan. Um, the things I think we can impact
and we should talk about, uh, are noise, um,
traffic perhaps. But I'm not sure that the issue at,
um, the corner of, uh, three chopped in two 50
with the store, there is anything that the applicant can impact.
so I don't know that that's something that, um, we can really address.
I know that, uh, it'll bring a little more traffic to the area. I appreciate that
the roads are a public, uh, resource and they should be used.
um, I don't think it's gonna be over overbearing,
uh, with traffic. And
I may have things to add as, uh, as we go forward, but it's late and my voice is tired
and I'll hand back, hand it back to you.
mm-hmm . Thanks,
jess. Do you wanna, do you wanna weigh in, jess? Yeah. There,
um, there was a number of
people that spoke that
had some contingencies. They referenced, I mean,
everyone thought it was a right, it was a, it's a good idea, just not the right place.
and there's a few people that, that spoke about how it would
be acceptable, um, in order what conditions it would be acceptable.
those are the kinds of things that, that someone, someone in this seat and someone that
loves the community really likes to see how, how can we find common ground.
so I don't know, um,
if that's possible. Obviously the, the big ones are noise, um,
having a proper noise maybe in plan traffic study.
and I, I mean, I heard a lot of people talk about, uh, shot fall.
um, so I I
I, I just wonder if it's possible
to have these things be accomplished, have the,
the community at ease, um, and have this,
what everyone agrees is a really great thing. Um,
still, still working through that thought process. If, if there's a way to get
everyone excited about it,
I don't think you're ever going to get to a hundred percent on that. And that's just,
um, yeah, it's a nice thought. Yeah. Thank you. Um, do
you wanna, I'm sorry. Did you have more to add? Uh, not right now. You're good. Okay. Um,
I think my biggest concern is, is going back to staff and staff's
gonna be the one that handles a lot of this. Um, and, and there's
a lot of, um, still, uh,
uh, items that staff is still saying that we need clarification on.
um, I I also think it's a, it's a great project, um,
um, you know, living in, in
glinda and, and the rural character that we all tend to en you know, enjoy.
and, you know, my family, um, I have two eagle scouts and I have children
who hunt and trap and fish way more than,
than sometimes I wish that they would . But, um, I, I, I,
so I I I, I agree with the concept. Um,
I just personally, um, think that we still need more
time to, for, for staff to figure out those unknowns and
for us to kind of maybe come together on maybe some concessions
as far as the hours of operation, um,
days that are open tournament times, um, different things like that.
um, and things that probably cannot be answered at 1155.
um, and I've told my kids nothing good happens after midnight. So,
um, I, I, you know, I, I hear the concerns,
um, and I also hear staff concerns and I also hear
applicant concerns. So now we have this trifecta of
sometimes time can answer a lot of those things. Um,
and so I am, I would love to present this to the board of supervisors
as a more complete application at this point.
mr. Patak? Yes. Um, I love that vsp
wants to make this a family, make this a youth.
I think those are great ideas and I think that that can happen.
um, but there's just things I can't get around and
I just can't sacrifice these poor people to
take the hit of, you know, going down the, the, the
rabbit hole of decibels and you wind and so forth. They're
just gonna hear it every day and it bothers them. And
they're, they're going outside and I just can't get over
that. I can't get over the proximity to these homes.
I can't get over the, the giant amount of lead that'll be shot
into the wetlands. And my last question is, is this the best
use of this land?
all right.
all right. To me, to you. Okay. Um, best but not least,
well, sound is obviously, uh, the, the biggest thing that people were concerned
about and what I, what I did just hear the applicant say a couple of times is take
some time to review the sound study. Mm-hmm . So
take some time. So it seems like I,
I feel like we do need a little bit more time then, uh, I want a little
more time to review some of the presentations that were given here today. There was a lot of data on some
of the, some of those presentations, a lot of information. So I'd like to look at that.
um, and, uh, I guess the other big thing is
I, I hope we can straighten out this lease issue. Uh, I think that's mm-hmm .
I don't think that was what we were expecting to see when we saw the 75 acres
move to 85 acres. And so, uh, and maybe that's not really,
uh, my concern, but it looks like it knocks out some of the shooting positions, and I
don't think you want to do that. So, um,
so I, I, I, I guess, do we want to have any conversations
around this? Because I think I, I hear in general
you saying this, this is, these, a lot of these issues are perhaps unresolvable.
we do want to have something like this. It's got a lot of great benefits promising,
um, benefits for the, for the county.
but I, I would say that the, the other board members that I heard are council
members, or what are we called? A commission, commission members. I heard
. Uh, it is after almost talking midnight , um, I, I've,
I've heard several people say, you know, we just like need a little bit more time and hopefully
things can, uh, get a little clearer and work on some, uh, some issues.
a little bit more. Um, so I,
I would like to, uh, I, I would like to make a motion that
we, uh, that the commission defer consideration of the conditional
use permit cu 2 0 2 5 0 0 0 1 2 application
by virginia sports park and training center at gland
to the, uh, march, uh, planning commission meeting.
I believe that's march 19th. March 19th, yeah. March, march 19th.
um, so that I, I'll make that as a, as a formal, uh,
motion. I'll second
mr. Kimberly. Aye. Mr. Patek, can we, oh, can we discuss
the motion before we go? Oh, yes. I'm sorry.
after midnight.
what are we gonna know then that we don't know now? Okay. And how do we assure that
we receive that information on a timely basis so that we can digest it,
make sure the community is aware of it as well? Well, what I, what I heard you mention
was, uh, we're still unresolved on the noise
issue. There's still yes, sir. Unanswered questions about noise
and ways to limit the sound. I hear you also
were concerned, and I'm concerned a little bit about perimeter security.
yeah. Um, I think there's some
items that, uh, maybe staff and applicant can kind of, uh, can kind
of get together and maybe work through, whether it's those that
possible, like you said, perimeter yeah. Um, hours,
um, different things. Um, again, well, and I also heard that it's not
possible to shoot in the direction away from the center of the range
and you know, I, I guess I'm a little concerned about shot
fall in the other directions, so mm-hmm . Um,
uh, and that was one of the things that, that mr. Mclaughlin brought up and I,
I agree with him on that. So I'd like to, I'd like to hear a little bit more about
how that is assured that that's not gonna happen. So, and I think the sound study,
I, I do think staff, um, you know, and all of us too, I mean, I read through it, but
I, I want to read through it and really, you know, fully comprehend it and,
you know, given a day and a half is, is
not prudent to staff or to us. Um, so I, I'd like
the time to for that as well. Yeah. And mr. Thomas did mention
perhaps doing an additional study with more data points. Yeah. But he
also made the very good point that he'll, he'll do as much as he's paid to do.
and, and it's expensive. It is very expensive for a nonprofit that really hasn't
had a fundraising, uh, effort yet. So
I, I get that. Um,
it's coming out of their individual pockets, I guess. I don't really, I don't know where it's coming from
. So,
so perimeter security noise, um, shot
fall, shot fall, uh, mr. Machal also mentioned a a a,
a better traffic study or, or maybe additional information on,
uh, traffic, uh, was something that he suggested. Uh, so
you're asking them to pay more, um, or if that's what it takes
or I, maybe it's, maybe it's information we get from,
uh, our local law enforcement and first responders and what
their opinions are on that. So
and coming to consensus on hours and days. Mm-hmm .
yeah. I mean, I heard for the first time there might be some holidays that
may not yeah. Have activities and yeah. None of that was, none of that was
in the application. No, the application. So, alright.
so maybe cleaning that up a little bit. Mm-hmm . Staff was, uh, was asking
or saying that there were, there are some things that they're not sure they've got an agreement
on. Even things that were already in the, in the presentation,
so mm-hmm .
all right. I got now if you want to
call the vote, I just wanted to make sure we got said what we wanted to, is there, is there more?
I, I love this. Is there more conversation to have about this before we,
I mean, does anybody want to advocate for a different position on this?
I mean, I, I'll hear all inputs on this. Well the other option is
we can deny it and kick it to the board. I'm not sure that
they want that. That's not what, what we're here for. We're here to polish it up and yeah.
make sure that they're delivered a, I've been here for five hours and three
minutes. I wanted something to end on. Um,
so I think the deferral might be best, um, for the good of six
hours. Six hours. Yeah. You got here at five o'clock. I got here at five
so I've been here for seven hours in three minutes. You got it. Alright.
I have to get up in five hours. So, yeah, go ahead.
all right. So you wanna start again? Sure. Had the motion to defer
to the march 19 meeting by mr. Kimberly, seconded by
ms. Kowalski and for the roll call vote. We will recall mr.
kimberly. Aye mr. Patak nay. Ms. Kowalski
aye. Mr. Mclaughlin aye. Mr. Dean
aye the motion to defer the application c you 20 25 12
to the march 19th, 2026 pc meeting is
approved on a four one vote. If there is
no other business, this meeting is adjourned.