1
00:00:00,625 --> 00:00:02,135
Okay, we ready? Yep.

2
00:00:07,875 --> 00:00:10,195
I now call to order the planning commission meeting for january 15th, 2026.

3
00:00:12,935 --> 00:00:16,675
uh, ms. Parker, do we have a quorum? Yes. Ms. Kowalski, we have a quorum. Uh, please

4
00:00:17,045 --> 00:00:20,435
stand for the pledge of allegiance and remain standing for the invocation.

5
00:00:25,545 --> 00:00:28,345
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america

6
00:00:30,125 --> 00:00:33,875
and to the recovery for which it stands, one nation under

7
00:00:34,285 --> 00:00:37,945
god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

8
00:00:43,435 --> 00:00:46,935
please bow, bear your heads for prayer. Heavenly

9
00:00:47,495 --> 00:00:51,295
father, we come before you today as a community concerned about everyone's rights

10
00:00:51,635 --> 00:00:54,815
and the quality of life in our county. We seek your guidance,

11
00:00:55,755 --> 00:00:59,615
we seek your wisdom. In this meeting, we ask that your spirit be present

12
00:01:00,025 --> 00:01:03,855
among us, keeping our interactions respectful and guiding our decisions

13
00:01:04,215 --> 00:01:08,155
for the common good. Help us to set aside our differences and

14
00:01:08,375 --> 00:01:12,275
to endeavor to understand each other's points of view and to work together in

15
00:01:12,655 --> 00:01:16,375
unity, ensuring that our efforts reflect your will to make goochland

16
00:01:16,975 --> 00:01:20,765
a better county. In your holy name we pray, amen. Amen.

17
00:01:31,795 --> 00:01:35,775
um, has everyone had a chance to read the minutes from the, uh, december 18th, 2025

18
00:01:37,455 --> 00:01:40,535
meeting? Are there any comments or is there a motion to approve?

19
00:01:42,215 --> 00:01:45,495
I motion to approve. Aye. I second.

20
00:01:48,705 --> 00:01:52,675
alright, mr. Kimberly? Aye. Mr. Patt aye. Ms. Kowalski

21
00:01:53,415 --> 00:01:56,795
aye. Mr. Mclaughlin aye. Mr. Dean aye. Thank you.

22
00:01:57,975 --> 00:01:59,715
uh, we are now ready for the director's report.

23
00:02:07,365 --> 00:02:10,515
thank you. Ms. Parker. Excuse. Thank you, ms. Parker.

24
00:02:12,365 --> 00:02:16,235
madam chair, your welcome, madam chair, members of the commission

25
00:02:16,815 --> 00:02:20,715
for the record, I'm jamie sherry, director of planning and zoning. This evening

26
00:02:21,105 --> 00:02:24,755
I'll be presenting a brief director's report on upcoming public

27
00:02:25,195 --> 00:02:29,095
hearings. Looking ahead to the

28
00:02:29,255 --> 00:02:33,155
board of supervisors meeting on february 3rd, there are two conditional use

29
00:02:33,375 --> 00:02:37,035
permit cases scheduled. This meeting we will, will be held at 6:00 pm

30
00:02:37,865 --> 00:02:41,855
right here in the boardroom. The first is in district one and involves a request

31
00:02:42,115 --> 00:02:45,695
for a detached accessory family housing unit on approximately 20 acres

32
00:02:46,155 --> 00:02:50,095
on loving springs lane. The property is zoned a one and is

33
00:02:50,255 --> 00:02:54,175
designated as rural enhancement area in the comp plan. The second

34
00:02:54,375 --> 00:02:57,975
case is in district three, also for a detached family housing unit

35
00:02:58,435 --> 00:03:02,125
on approximately 3.7 acres on hawk town road.

36
00:03:02,465 --> 00:03:06,145
the property is zoned a two and is also designated as

37
00:03:06,495 --> 00:03:10,005
rural enhancement area. Both of these requests require

38
00:03:10,565 --> 00:03:13,825
a conditional use permit for

39
00:03:14,625 --> 00:03:18,485
the february planning commission. Uh, it's february 19th

40
00:03:19,265 --> 00:03:23,245
at 6:00 pm there are also two conditional use permits scheduled, and the

41
00:03:23,405 --> 00:03:27,205
meeting will be held here in the boardroom at 6:00 pm the first is in

42
00:03:27,645 --> 00:03:31,435
district three, is a request for a home-based business on pleasant hill lane

43
00:03:32,035 --> 00:03:35,365
that is involving a small scale fabrication of custom

44
00:03:36,055 --> 00:03:39,535
parts and tools used for maintaining and repairing mechanical

45
00:03:40,205 --> 00:03:44,135
equipment. The property is approximately 17 acres and is zoned

46
00:03:44,645 --> 00:03:47,845
a two and located in the rural enhancement area.

47
00:03:48,895 --> 00:03:52,595
the second case in district four is a request for a school use on the

48
00:03:53,075 --> 00:03:56,995
property along three chop road and broad street road. This is,

49
00:03:57,415 --> 00:04:01,085
uh, combined. The combined site is approximately seven acres, zoned

50
00:04:01,555 --> 00:04:05,195
a two and is also zoned, um, rural enhancement area.

51
00:04:06,615 --> 00:04:10,555
and at this time, there are no community meetings scheduled. And that's all I have

52
00:04:10,715 --> 00:04:11,715
for you all this evening. Thank you.

53
00:04:15,165 --> 00:04:17,995
thank you. Uh, now we are on to citizen comment period

54
00:04:19,575 --> 00:04:23,355
per the planning commission bylaws sec section four, addressing the commission. Public

55
00:04:24,035 --> 00:04:27,915
comments. Generally, all persons who speak before the commission during the citizen comment

56
00:04:28,315 --> 00:04:32,195
period or a public hearing shall do so from the lectern and furnish their names

57
00:04:32,495 --> 00:04:36,275
and addresses to the commission. A speaker shall only speak once on any item

58
00:04:36,535 --> 00:04:40,515
unless the commission asks the speaker to answer questions. No person may address the

59
00:04:40,715 --> 00:04:44,675
commission unless they have first been recognized by the chair. Each person who desires

60
00:04:45,075 --> 00:04:49,035
to speak shall be given time to present oral or written comments. Comment shall be directed to

61
00:04:49,115 --> 00:04:52,635
the commission, not to the audience. The citizen comment period provides

62
00:04:53,195 --> 00:04:57,155
a public forum for the commission to hear from citizens about matters pertinent to

63
00:04:57,315 --> 00:05:01,115
the activities, issues, or policies of the commission. The citizen comment

64
00:05:01,475 --> 00:05:05,075
period is limited to matters that are not scheduled for public hearing

65
00:05:05,495 --> 00:05:09,455
on tonight's agenda. Uh,

66
00:05:09,895 --> 00:05:13,695
and just, um, to reiterate, these are for, uh, anything that is not

67
00:05:14,175 --> 00:05:17,955
to be spoken about tonight. Um, if you do wish to speak during the citizen comment

68
00:05:18,355 --> 00:05:22,155
period, please come forward. State your name and address. You will have three minutes

69
00:05:22,455 --> 00:05:25,835
to speak. The green light will come on that indicates the start of your three minutes.

70
00:05:26,695 --> 00:05:30,635
uh, the yellow light will indicate that you have one minute remaining and the red light

71
00:05:30,875 --> 00:05:34,655
indicates the end of, uh, your time. Um, do we have anyone

72
00:05:35,075 --> 00:05:37,385
that wishes to speak during the public comment time?

73
00:05:40,965 --> 00:05:44,385
all right. I will then close the public. Um, comment period.

74
00:05:45,085 --> 00:05:48,905
um, unfinished business, we have no unfinished

75
00:05:49,785 --> 00:05:53,545
business. There are two items of new business. The first item

76
00:05:53,845 --> 00:05:57,605
of new business is establishment of the nominating committee. The nominating committee

77
00:05:57,945 --> 00:06:01,725
is a two person committee, which will nominate chair and vice chair at the april

78
00:06:02,005 --> 00:06:05,925
meeting where the chair and vice chair will officially be elected. Are there

79
00:06:06,045 --> 00:06:09,205
any volunteers for the nominating committee? I will volunteer.

80
00:06:11,085 --> 00:06:13,195
I will volunteer. Thank you.

81
00:06:18,895 --> 00:06:22,775
our second item of new business this evening is an action item before the commission and

82
00:06:22,995 --> 00:06:26,875
will not come before the board of supervisors district five cmp 20 25 2

83
00:06:28,425 --> 00:06:32,355
application by sta properties llc requesting approval of a

84
00:06:32,475 --> 00:06:35,635
conceptual master plan for a distribution use on 40.3

85
00:06:36,525 --> 00:06:38,235
acres on tax, about number 63 37 1 2 0

86
00:06:41,175 --> 00:06:44,955
and west creek business park. The property is zoned industrial limited m1

87
00:06:45,545 --> 00:06:49,315
with proffered conditions and is governed by the proffers associated with west creek

88
00:06:49,715 --> 00:06:52,995
business park. The comprehensive plan designates this area as prime

89
00:06:53,835 --> 00:06:57,635
economic development. Thank you, ms. Parker. Madam chair

90
00:06:58,495 --> 00:07:02,495
for the record. My name is carrie raglin. I'm assistant planning director for the county and

91
00:07:02,715 --> 00:07:06,695
we'll be providing the staff presentation for this application. As

92
00:07:06,915 --> 00:07:10,195
stated, the request is within district five is an and is an application

93
00:07:10,935 --> 00:07:14,795
for approval of a conceptual master plan within the west creek business park.

94
00:07:16,095 --> 00:07:19,895
the vicinity map on the left indicates the subject area outlined in red

95
00:07:20,135 --> 00:07:24,115
at the southeastern part of the county near route 2 88, and the aerial photo

96
00:07:24,335 --> 00:07:28,235
on the right indicates the subject property also outlined in red. For a better

97
00:07:28,635 --> 00:07:31,835
reference, the property is located directly west of route 2 88

98
00:07:32,655 --> 00:07:36,405
and is situated between route 2 88 and west creek parkway north

99
00:07:36,755 --> 00:07:37,395
of patterson avenue.

100
00:07:40,805 --> 00:07:44,225
the zoning map on the left shows the subject property and adjacent properties

101
00:07:45,125 --> 00:07:49,105
all is within the m1 zoning district. The comprehensive plan map on

102
00:07:49,305 --> 00:07:53,105
the right shows the subject property and adjacent properties as prime economic development.

103
00:07:57,835 --> 00:08:01,655
as discussed, the request is to approve a conceptual master plan for a

104
00:08:02,055 --> 00:08:05,905
distribution center, specifically a last mile distribution center, which

105
00:08:06,255 --> 00:08:09,975
is a facility used to store sort and dispatch goods close to the final

106
00:08:10,535 --> 00:08:14,295
customer. This is before you tonight because of the proffered conditions within

107
00:08:14,555 --> 00:08:18,255
the west creek business park, which requires planning, commission, review and approval.

108
00:08:19,275 --> 00:08:23,085
the application does not require public hearing, but rather is an action item that

109
00:08:23,375 --> 00:08:27,175
requires the vote. The proposed distribu distribution center

110
00:08:27,415 --> 00:08:31,035
is a by right use within the m1 zoning. In

111
00:08:31,495 --> 00:08:35,165
addition to the planning commission review, other proffers include development

112
00:08:36,015 --> 00:08:39,045
standards for the site such as landscaping road dedications,

113
00:08:40,035 --> 00:08:43,725
at least 30% net open space roadway and site buffers,

114
00:08:44,575 --> 00:08:48,575
setbacks from buildings and parking underground utilities, and for

115
00:08:48,855 --> 00:08:50,645
the bmps to serve as amenities.

116
00:08:54,855 --> 00:08:58,745
on this slide, you can see the proposed conceptual plan on the right, and I

117
00:08:58,865 --> 00:09:02,545
will show this in a larger format. On another screen. The plan demonstrates

118
00:09:03,105 --> 00:09:06,945
a large 114,000 square foot warehouse as the main delivery center

119
00:09:07,805 --> 00:09:11,575
and a 5,000 square foot service building for the fleet. Vehicles also

120
00:09:11,865 --> 00:09:15,845
shown as the underground stormwater facilities and employee parking three

121
00:09:16,195 --> 00:09:19,875
access points are shown on west creek parkway, all of which are to be installed

122
00:09:20,415 --> 00:09:24,395
as full access openings, creating three median breaks for left and right

123
00:09:24,555 --> 00:09:25,595
turns in and out of the site.

124
00:09:29,145 --> 00:09:32,145
and I'll pause here for a moment with a larger image to point out. The

125
00:09:33,475 --> 00:09:37,035
main warehouse building the service

126
00:09:37,715 --> 00:09:41,185
building for the fleet vehicles, uh, generally

127
00:09:41,945 --> 00:09:45,385
employee parking at the center and the northern entrance

128
00:09:46,025 --> 00:09:50,025
specifically, um, is for large trucks to unload their contents, which would be brought

129
00:09:50,225 --> 00:09:53,865
from the main distribution centers on this side. The southern most

130
00:09:54,465 --> 00:09:58,445
entrance is mostly for the van fleet service, which creates a direct access

131
00:09:58,885 --> 00:10:02,785
to the back of the building while they where they will get loaded. And the

132
00:10:02,985 --> 00:10:05,265
central access point is generally for employee parking.

133
00:10:11,325 --> 00:10:15,225
the conceptual plan is intended to be general nature and then followed by a

134
00:10:15,585 --> 00:10:19,585
detailed plan of development approval. Should issues arise with the

135
00:10:19,785 --> 00:10:23,585
pod where the site plans are not in conformance with a conceptual plan, the applicant

136
00:10:23,955 --> 00:10:27,625
would need to revise their cmp application and return to the planning commission

137
00:10:28,005 --> 00:10:31,745
for a revised approval of the concept plan. It should be

138
00:10:32,065 --> 00:10:35,905
noted that a plan of development is under a formal review with staff. Under those

139
00:10:36,185 --> 00:10:39,905
review processes, staff is able to comment on the specific measurements and

140
00:10:40,305 --> 00:10:44,075
engineering of the site. The concept plan is in accordance

141
00:10:44,515 --> 00:10:48,515
with a comprehensive plan, the west creek proffers and the plan of

142
00:10:48,635 --> 00:10:49,155
development under review.

143
00:10:53,275 --> 00:10:57,145
madam chair, this concludes the staff presentation. There is a representative here if

144
00:10:57,345 --> 00:10:59,965
you have any questions. Do you have any questions of me?

145
00:11:03,985 --> 00:11:07,255
any questions? No. No. No. Thank you. Okay.

146
00:11:09,215 --> 00:11:13,155
do you mind just stating your name for the record? Good

147
00:11:13,445 --> 00:11:17,345
evening. My name is joshua bryant. I'm with cph consulting and

148
00:11:17,665 --> 00:11:21,625
we are the design consultant for this project. Um, so I'm here in

149
00:11:21,845 --> 00:11:25,835
case anyone has any questions? No.

150
00:11:26,315 --> 00:11:29,535
any questions? None. No. No. I think we're good. Thank you. Thank you joshua. Thank you

151
00:11:31,665 --> 00:11:35,045
madam chair. I move that the commission approved conceptual master plan

152
00:11:35,935 --> 00:11:36,475
cmp 20 25 0 0 0 0 2

153
00:11:40,245 --> 00:11:43,895
application by summit properties llci second that,

154
00:11:46,075 --> 00:11:50,055
uh, mr. Kimberly? Aye. Mr. Patak? Aye. Ms. Kowalski?

155
00:11:50,955 --> 00:11:54,225
aye. Mr. Mclaughlin? Aye. Mr. Dean aye.

156
00:11:55,005 --> 00:11:58,045
cmp 20 25 2 is approved with a five oh vote.

157
00:12:05,245 --> 00:12:07,595
uh, do we have any requests to defer

158
00:12:09,265 --> 00:12:13,145
additions, deletions, or changes to the order of public hearings? There are no

159
00:12:13,305 --> 00:12:16,665
requests to defer additions, deletions, or changes to the order of the public hearings.

160
00:12:17,415 --> 00:12:21,185
okay, our first public hearing tonight is in district three, rz 20 25 6.

161
00:12:22,295 --> 00:12:26,165
application by bj's hauling llc requesting to rezone 2.16

162
00:12:27,035 --> 00:12:30,425
acres from agricultural limited, a two to industrial general

163
00:12:31,225 --> 00:12:34,985
m two with proffered conditions for an office and outside storage for trucking

164
00:12:35,585 --> 00:12:39,105
business at 1991 triplet lane on tax be number 45 7 0

165
00:12:40,665 --> 00:12:43,945
c. The comprehensive plan designates this area as industrial.

166
00:12:46,035 --> 00:12:49,825
thank you ms. Parker. Madam chair, I'll state again for the record. My name is carrie

167
00:12:50,345 --> 00:12:53,465
raglan and I'll be presenting the, uh, staff presentation for this application.

168
00:12:55,205 --> 00:12:58,985
the request is within district three and is an application for rezoning

169
00:12:59,385 --> 00:13:03,225
from the a two agricultural district to the m two industrial district with

170
00:13:03,465 --> 00:13:06,865
proffered conditions for the purpose of an office with outside storage

171
00:13:07,765 --> 00:13:11,395
for a truck hauling business. The

172
00:13:11,775 --> 00:13:15,775
vicinity map on the left shows the subject area outlined in red, while the aerial

173
00:13:16,095 --> 00:13:19,435
photo on the right indicates the subject property also outlined in red,

174
00:13:20,425 --> 00:13:24,285
where a better reference the parcels located north of broad street on triplet lane

175
00:13:24,885 --> 00:13:28,855
just across from the county bus depot, which can be seen here

176
00:13:29,095 --> 00:13:29,415
in the aerial.

177
00:13:33,425 --> 00:13:37,365
the zoning map on the left demonstrates the subject property and adjacent properties to the

178
00:13:37,445 --> 00:13:41,445
north and east as a two agricultural district. Properties to the

179
00:13:41,565 --> 00:13:45,205
south and west are zoned m1 and m two industrial. The comprehensive

180
00:13:46,035 --> 00:13:49,525
plan map on the right demonstrates the property and most adjacent properties

181
00:13:50,225 --> 00:13:53,885
as industrial. The bus depot to the west is shown as institutional

182
00:13:55,115 --> 00:13:56,685
here in blue as it's owned by the county.

183
00:14:00,555 --> 00:14:04,315
the property was historically developed as a single family residence, and if

184
00:14:04,695 --> 00:14:07,855
this application is approved, the structure could no longer be used as a dwelling.

185
00:14:08,845 --> 00:14:12,725
currently the property is accessed by a private driveway, which extends

186
00:14:13,315 --> 00:14:17,205
off of triplet lane. Note here in the aerial photo that

187
00:14:17,495 --> 00:14:21,195
as triplet lane runs north, you follow the red dot.

188
00:14:24,345 --> 00:14:28,255
uh, the path diverts at the property's driveway just here shown

189
00:14:28,605 --> 00:14:32,405
in white as the access easement while the state road actually

190
00:14:32,675 --> 00:14:36,525
jogs left and then continues north. The result is that there is a private

191
00:14:36,905 --> 00:14:40,905
access easement here, which runs parallel to the

192
00:14:41,125 --> 00:14:43,685
state road here, and you can see the curve in the road.

193
00:14:45,385 --> 00:14:49,135
three parcels utilize the access easement, which are the subject

194
00:14:49,935 --> 00:14:53,875
property here and two adjacent properties to the

195
00:14:54,075 --> 00:14:57,935
north. However, none of the parcels are landlocked and all

196
00:14:58,155 --> 00:15:01,505
are able to extend a driveway directly onto triplet here,

197
00:15:03,255 --> 00:15:05,595
or the private road to the north, which is pothole road.

198
00:15:10,865 --> 00:15:14,525
the applicant is requesting to rezone 2.16 acres from agricultural

199
00:15:15,305 --> 00:15:19,165
to industrial with proffered conditions in order to create an office building for a truck

200
00:15:19,365 --> 00:15:23,125
hauling business and outside storage for their truck hauling fleet.

201
00:15:24,265 --> 00:15:28,185
the applicant has proffered a conceptual plan, which shows the existing residence to remain

202
00:15:29,525 --> 00:15:33,265
a parking area at the front of the building at a fenced in and screened storage fenced

203
00:15:33,905 --> 00:15:37,805
in and screened storage yard will be added to the back for the truck

204
00:15:38,015 --> 00:15:41,635
fleet. Oops, went too fast.

205
00:15:43,055 --> 00:15:46,835
six other conditions are proffered to include buffer requirements, construction hours,

206
00:15:47,175 --> 00:15:50,985
and screening of the outside storage. As shown

207
00:15:51,225 --> 00:15:54,615
in the concept plan, a new straight entrance would be added onto triplet

208
00:15:55,245 --> 00:15:59,225
to provide better site distance for the trucks pulling out of the property. Any right

209
00:15:59,505 --> 00:16:03,425
of way or site distance easements would be reviewed and acquired at the plan development stage.

210
00:16:08,085 --> 00:16:11,945
and this slide shows the proffered concept plan on here as described.

211
00:16:12,505 --> 00:16:16,225
I'll point out the existing house here to remain a new parking

212
00:16:16,615 --> 00:16:20,605
area proposed at the front of the property. The screened in, uh, the

213
00:16:20,825 --> 00:16:24,145
screen storage at the back, which includes a fence and vegetative screening,

214
00:16:25,245 --> 00:16:28,065
as well as screening at the north of the property.

215
00:16:30,065 --> 00:16:33,595
and then a new commercial access right here directly onto triplet.

216
00:16:34,595 --> 00:16:37,205
this is different from the current access, which is down here.

217
00:16:40,435 --> 00:16:44,165
then there is a triangle here, which shows expected right of way dedication

218
00:16:44,825 --> 00:16:47,755
or site distance easements needed to make the new entrance safe.

219
00:16:54,565 --> 00:16:58,235
the proposed m two zoning district is intended for heavy commercial and industrial operations.

220
00:16:59,775 --> 00:17:03,645
outdoor storage is allowed by right in the district. The

221
00:17:04,105 --> 00:17:07,945
property and several adjacent properties are designated as industrial land use

222
00:17:09,045 --> 00:17:12,295
and the the application is consistent with the comprehensive plan.

223
00:17:17,395 --> 00:17:20,765
reviewing cha transportation further triplet lane route 1213

224
00:17:21,545 --> 00:17:25,525
is identified as a local road. It's undivided with a 35 mile per hour

225
00:17:25,725 --> 00:17:29,725
speed limit. A traffic count was provided by grove sl, which showed

226
00:17:29,925 --> 00:17:33,895
that no improvements would be required due to the proposed development. The

227
00:17:34,115 --> 00:17:37,995
applicant is proposing to relocate the entrance on triplet to correct the current

228
00:17:38,675 --> 00:17:41,755
situation of forsight distance due to the current jog in the road.

229
00:17:42,975 --> 00:17:46,895
the applicant has also proffered right of way to vdot to be determined at

230
00:17:47,115 --> 00:17:49,925
the time of plan development in order to create a safer entrance.

231
00:17:52,895 --> 00:17:56,695
the community meeting was held on october 20th, 2025. Six.

232
00:17:56,915 --> 00:18:00,715
members of the public attendant as well as the applicants citizen comments

233
00:18:00,945 --> 00:18:04,275
were related to vegetative buffers with the adjacent property to the north

234
00:18:05,145 --> 00:18:08,955
fencing around the outside storage area and how the entrance changes

235
00:18:09,325 --> 00:18:11,155
would affect the property to the north.

236
00:18:15,585 --> 00:18:19,435
this slide is a summary of the proffered conditions and I do have them all available.

237
00:18:20,295 --> 00:18:24,075
um, on, on a full screen if there's any questions regarding the specific language.

238
00:18:24,855 --> 00:18:28,845
the proffers include general conformance with a conceptual plan,

239
00:18:29,135 --> 00:18:32,955
which is exhibit a in the staff report, a landscape buffer to

240
00:18:33,175 --> 00:18:36,835
be provided along the northern property line and at the eastern, um,

241
00:18:37,195 --> 00:18:40,305
parcel for wells to be drilled rather than board

242
00:18:41,435 --> 00:18:45,435
for construction hours to be limited to 7:00 am to p 8:00 pm monday

243
00:18:45,855 --> 00:18:49,815
through saturday for right of right of way dedication to be dedicated

244
00:18:50,265 --> 00:18:54,195
along triplet. At the time of planet development, the applicant has

245
00:18:54,415 --> 00:18:57,775
proffered out specific uses to include junk storage,

246
00:18:58,575 --> 00:19:02,575
sawmills, car wash, debris landfill, solar energy facility,

247
00:19:03,035 --> 00:19:06,655
or wind turbines. All outdoor storage

248
00:19:07,085 --> 00:19:10,965
must be permanently screened from all public roads by either vegetation or fencing.

249
00:19:11,885 --> 00:19:13,685
this is also demonstrated on the concept plan.

250
00:19:17,035 --> 00:19:20,985
madam chair, this concludes the staff presentation. The applicant is here to answer questions

251
00:19:21,145 --> 00:19:25,085
if needed. Do you have any questions from me at this time? None. No.

252
00:19:25,645 --> 00:19:29,465
any questions? I have a quick one. What is the thought behind the wells being

253
00:19:29,665 --> 00:19:33,545
drilled rather than board? Uh, that's a common condition that we

254
00:19:33,745 --> 00:19:37,645
do see in goochland and then the difference is really longevity and

255
00:19:38,225 --> 00:19:41,725
I can explain the difference between the two, but that's, that's a, that's a common, um,

256
00:19:42,375 --> 00:19:45,905
proffer that we see in gland. Thank you. Thank you. Um, quick

257
00:19:46,425 --> 00:19:50,385
question on the, um, the site plan. Am I to assume the front

258
00:19:50,625 --> 00:19:53,865
portion looking at, um, sorry, if you wanna go back. Yeah, I can kind of,

259
00:19:58,055 --> 00:20:01,695
I'm pushing the button, I promise. No, you're good. Take your time. You

260
00:20:02,135 --> 00:20:06,055
want this? Okay. The front portion,

261
00:20:06,715 --> 00:20:10,515
is that all going to be paved with the back portion being gravel? Is that why

262
00:20:10,735 --> 00:20:14,585
you're showing the discrepancy in, um, in the, yeah.

263
00:20:14,825 --> 00:20:18,665
thank you. The texture of it is that yes, that demonstrated is is the texture? Yes ma'am. Okay. Mm-hmm

264
00:20:18,985 --> 00:20:22,425
. Okay. Thank you. And there's a proposed, I think gate here

265
00:20:23,005 --> 00:20:26,695
to differentiate the two between the storage and the, the public parking areas. Okay. Okay.

266
00:20:27,075 --> 00:20:27,425
thank you.

267
00:20:31,975 --> 00:20:35,795
any other questions? Nope. Okay. Okay. I'll, um, introduce the applicant's representative.

268
00:20:39,035 --> 00:20:42,735
hi, good evening everyone. My name is andrew browning with

269
00:20:43,275 --> 00:20:46,895
the engineering firm youngblood tyler and associates here representing the applicant. Uh, mr.

270
00:20:47,345 --> 00:20:51,225
bj snead who is also with me, uh, I do not have a presentation, but I'm

271
00:20:51,445 --> 00:20:53,165
happy to answer any questions that you may have.

272
00:20:56,895 --> 00:21:00,875
any questions for the applicant? No. No, we're good. Thank you. Thank

273
00:21:01,075 --> 00:21:03,775
you. Alright.

274
00:21:05,365 --> 00:21:08,765
um, let's see here. Um,

275
00:21:10,105 --> 00:21:13,865
I will now open up the public hearing for this case. Um, is there anyone

276
00:21:14,145 --> 00:21:18,105
that would like to speak on this case, either in this room or in the overflow rooms?

277
00:21:19,825 --> 00:21:23,645
and I'll pause for a couple seconds in case anyone would like to come from the overflow

278
00:21:24,005 --> 00:21:24,005
rooms.

279
00:21:35,565 --> 00:21:39,345
all right. Uh, seeing no one, I will now close, uh, the public comment

280
00:21:39,625 --> 00:21:40,705
period for this case.

281
00:21:44,835 --> 00:21:47,955
all right. Any, no. It seems to me that the

282
00:21:49,125 --> 00:21:52,915
applicant's done, uh, what they need to do in, uh,

283
00:21:53,455 --> 00:21:56,745
response to the public meeting. Yeah.

284
00:21:57,525 --> 00:22:01,445
would anyone like to make a motion? Yeah, I

285
00:22:01,565 --> 00:22:05,205
move that we, uh, the commission recommend approval of rezoning

286
00:22:06,225 --> 00:22:10,205
rz 2 0 2 5 0 0 0 0 6 application

287
00:22:10,865 --> 00:22:14,085
by bj hauling llc with proper conditions as presented.

288
00:22:15,945 --> 00:22:19,845
second. Alright, mr. Dean?

289
00:22:21,365 --> 00:22:24,885
aye. Mr. Mclaughlin? Aye. Ms. Kowalski aye.

290
00:22:25,405 --> 00:22:28,805
mr. Patak aye. Mr. Kimberly aye.

291
00:22:29,965 --> 00:22:33,735
the motion to recommend approval passes on a five oh vote. This case case

292
00:22:34,085 --> 00:22:37,635
is tentatively scheduled to be heard by the board of supervisors march 3rd, 2026.

293
00:22:39,325 --> 00:22:42,345
it moves forward with a recommendation of approval from the planning commission.

294
00:22:44,085 --> 00:22:47,145
our second public hearing item this evening is in district four,

295
00:22:48,605 --> 00:22:52,405
cu 20 25 11. Application by jose carmen

296
00:22:53,085 --> 00:22:56,965
correa ano and anna isabel ramirez. Ano

297
00:22:57,275 --> 00:23:01,145
requesting a conditional use permit cup for an accessory family housing

298
00:23:01,495 --> 00:23:05,245
unit detached on 2.01 acres at 2 2 0 2

299
00:23:06,465 --> 00:23:08,665
mannequin road on tax map number 47 9 0 3

300
00:23:11,265 --> 00:23:15,105
c. The property is owned agricultural limited a two. The cup

301
00:23:15,545 --> 00:23:19,305
is required by county zoning ordinance section 15 1 12 in accordance

302
00:23:19,665 --> 00:23:23,115
with section 15 2 85 a. The comprehensive plan designates

303
00:23:23,785 --> 00:23:27,625
this area as rural enhancement area. Okay, we're gonna take

304
00:23:27,825 --> 00:23:31,635
a quick pause while mr. Dean, uh, recuses himself and leaves the room. Yeah. Madam

305
00:23:31,985 --> 00:23:33,585
chair, I do recuse myself. Thank you.

306
00:23:43,725 --> 00:23:47,685
go ahead. Good evening, madam chairwoman, my and members of

307
00:23:47,885 --> 00:23:50,485
the commission. My name is ben ellis. I'm a planner for the county.

308
00:23:52,345 --> 00:23:56,305
for you is an application by jose carmen correa arno and

309
00:23:56,805 --> 00:24:00,605
ana isabelle ramirez. Arno for condition

310
00:24:00,965 --> 00:24:03,245
use permit for an accessory family housing unit. Detached

311
00:24:06,215 --> 00:24:10,075
property is located on about two acres at 2 2 0 2 mannequin road in

312
00:24:10,575 --> 00:24:14,365
district four. The map on the left shows the general

313
00:24:14,805 --> 00:24:18,805
vicinity of the property within the county. The map on the right shows the property outlined

314
00:24:18,965 --> 00:24:22,125
in red, the property as well as the surrounding properties exhibit

315
00:24:23,005 --> 00:24:23,325
a rural character.

316
00:24:27,475 --> 00:24:30,495
the property and adjacent properties are zoned a two agricultural limited.

317
00:24:31,915 --> 00:24:35,655
the comprehensive plan designates this property and the surrounding properties as rural

318
00:24:35,935 --> 00:24:36,615
enhancement area.

319
00:24:41,665 --> 00:24:45,565
the property is currently occupied by a single family dwelling as well as a detached garage.

320
00:24:46,225 --> 00:24:50,045
the approximate location of the existing dwelling is shown by the green square.

321
00:24:51,665 --> 00:24:55,045
the approximate location of the detached garage is shown by the blue square.

322
00:24:56,465 --> 00:25:00,285
the applicant is proposing to construct an accessory family housing unit upon approval of

323
00:25:00,485 --> 00:25:04,315
this conditional use permit. The proposed location of this

324
00:25:04,555 --> 00:25:08,555
additional dwelling as indicated by the applicant, is shown by the red

325
00:25:08,715 --> 00:25:12,695
square. The applicant currently accesses the property through a shared

326
00:25:12,975 --> 00:25:14,615
drive that is shared by all three properties,

327
00:25:16,985 --> 00:25:20,925
but as you can see on the plat to the right, this drive does not fall the platt right of

328
00:25:21,045 --> 00:25:24,865
way, which is outlined in green. The addition, in

329
00:25:25,245 --> 00:25:29,045
addition to the right of way, there is another issue involving the access

330
00:25:29,365 --> 00:25:32,905
connection. On july 2nd, 2024, gland county updated

331
00:25:33,445 --> 00:25:37,355
its private road standards. These new private road standards increased

332
00:25:37,675 --> 00:25:41,645
the minimum road width from 16 feet to 20 feet. The

333
00:25:41,985 --> 00:25:45,985
minimum, excuse me, the driveway is classified as a private road as it

334
00:25:46,185 --> 00:25:50,175
provides access to at least three lots. Road currently does

335
00:25:50,415 --> 00:25:51,975
not appear to meet the current standards.

336
00:25:54,945 --> 00:25:58,925
the applicant hosted a community meeting on june 16th at gland fire and rescue

337
00:25:59,165 --> 00:26:03,085
station three eight citizens attended. The applicant explained

338
00:26:03,525 --> 00:26:06,725
the proposal and discussion included the location of the proposed dwelling,

339
00:26:07,545 --> 00:26:11,285
the location of the proposed train field in relation to the neighboring well

340
00:26:12,435 --> 00:26:15,745
visibility of the proposed dwelling, setbacks, land disturbance,

341
00:26:16,895 --> 00:26:20,305
size, and height of the proposed dwelling and well types

342
00:26:22,355 --> 00:26:26,315
two members of the public expressed concern with the proposal with one

343
00:26:26,535 --> 00:26:27,855
additional member expressing support

344
00:26:31,365 --> 00:26:35,005
with the draft conditions. This proposed use would be in compliance with the comprehensive plan.

345
00:26:38,585 --> 00:26:42,485
in addition to the standard conditions for this use, staff is recommending two additional

346
00:26:43,045 --> 00:26:47,035
conditions. Conditions one through five are standard conditions. Conditions

347
00:26:47,765 --> 00:26:51,495
one through three relate to the use of the property conditions. Four

348
00:26:51,885 --> 00:26:52,905
and five relate to safety

349
00:26:56,515 --> 00:27:00,415
to resolve the issues of non-conformity with the access connections. Staff has proposed that the

350
00:27:00,535 --> 00:27:04,415
road be brought into conformance before the issuance of a building permit.

351
00:27:04,835 --> 00:27:08,755
for this proposed dwelling staff has proposed two options as

352
00:27:08,975 --> 00:27:12,255
to how the applicant may, uh, remedy the situation.

353
00:27:14,825 --> 00:27:18,365
the first option would to be to rebuild the road within the access easement to current

354
00:27:18,845 --> 00:27:22,615
standards. The second would be to improve the

355
00:27:23,075 --> 00:27:26,615
existing road to current standards and move and replace the easement over the

356
00:27:27,115 --> 00:27:30,735
existing road. Secondly, in

357
00:27:31,155 --> 00:27:34,595
response to the neighbor's concerns, staff has proposed a vegetative screening requirement.

358
00:27:39,115 --> 00:27:42,375
if condition eight, this permit would be valid for a period of 10 years.

359
00:27:43,915 --> 00:27:47,175
the last condition is the county's standard transfer and lease language.

360
00:27:48,685 --> 00:27:51,335
finally, I'd be happy to answer any questions from the commission at this time.

361
00:27:53,705 --> 00:27:57,275
thank you. Uh, what questions I do? Yep. Um,

362
00:27:58,355 --> 00:28:02,215
the shared road, is the applicant willing to make those changes

363
00:28:02,675 --> 00:28:06,015
to that road? The applicant has indicated they're willing to make those changes.

364
00:28:07,165 --> 00:28:10,655
okay. Um, second, the second dwelling.

365
00:28:11,215 --> 00:28:14,455
approximately how large is that going to be? Square footage?

366
00:28:29,735 --> 00:28:31,795
is it approximately the same size as the first dwelling?

367
00:28:34,535 --> 00:28:38,515
I'm sorry. Um, the proposed square footage of

368
00:28:38,735 --> 00:28:42,135
the building is 2,467 square feet.

369
00:28:43,455 --> 00:28:47,315
um, I cannot tell you what that is in relation to the existing dwelling.

370
00:28:47,705 --> 00:28:51,535
okay. ? Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm

371
00:28:51,995 --> 00:28:54,155
. Pretty large. Thank you.

372
00:28:56,295 --> 00:28:59,535
and the amount of setback from the

373
00:29:00,395 --> 00:29:04,315
property line is approximately how much again? Um, this use

374
00:29:04,515 --> 00:29:07,955
will be required to meet principal structure setbacks, uh, which from the sides,

375
00:29:08,655 --> 00:29:12,535
uh, property lines is 20 feet from each side. Okay.

376
00:29:15,715 --> 00:29:19,585
there was a community meeting, uh, you mentioned there was, there was a few people

377
00:29:19,745 --> 00:29:23,685
in opposition? Yes. Were any of those people,

378
00:29:24,745 --> 00:29:27,685
um, the landowner where the new easement is coming through?

379
00:29:29,185 --> 00:29:33,025
um, no, the, uh, the easement or

380
00:29:33,245 --> 00:29:37,125
sorry, the landowner up front? Yeah, no. Um, the neighbors

381
00:29:37,565 --> 00:29:41,285
adjacent though are concerned. Okay.

382
00:29:41,575 --> 00:29:45,575
their concern being, um, I believe they're here and they

383
00:29:45,855 --> 00:29:49,675
may speak on that matter. Okay. Um, I just, um, I'm

384
00:29:49,895 --> 00:29:53,595
refer referencing these, um, property orders. Parcel b? Yes.

385
00:29:53,965 --> 00:29:55,735
okay. Thank you.

386
00:29:59,685 --> 00:30:03,685
any other questions? No. Okay. Alright. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Uh,

387
00:30:03,905 --> 00:30:04,985
would the applicant like to speak?

388
00:30:17,805 --> 00:30:21,685
hi, my name is yo holly and this is my husband daniel, and we

389
00:30:21,905 --> 00:30:25,665
are here representing my in-laws, um, who are the ones

390
00:30:25,945 --> 00:30:29,505
that put in the application for the conditional use permit.

391
00:30:30,645 --> 00:30:34,555
um, if you guys have any questions, uh, feel free to let us know. Okay. Thank

392
00:30:34,905 --> 00:30:37,885
you. Do you have any questions? Any questions?

393
00:30:41,155 --> 00:30:45,055
I, I guess, um, my question would be is what's the concern of

394
00:30:45,275 --> 00:30:47,475
the people that own parcel b with your project?

395
00:30:49,725 --> 00:30:53,205
um, I believe one of their concerns was,

396
00:30:54,285 --> 00:30:58,195
um, the driveway. But I, I'm gonna let them

397
00:30:58,355 --> 00:31:02,015
extend on that. I'm not really sure what their concern is. Um,

398
00:31:02,515 --> 00:31:06,315
I know my in-laws have accepted to widen the current

399
00:31:06,545 --> 00:31:10,245
road that is there and then do like the new easement there. Right.

400
00:31:11,015 --> 00:31:14,655
and they're willing to, obviously that is on,

401
00:31:15,215 --> 00:31:18,045
on them to get that taken care of. Okay.

402
00:31:21,145 --> 00:31:24,865
any other questions for the applicant? No. No. Okay. Thank you.

403
00:31:25,195 --> 00:31:28,395
thank you. Thank you. Uh,

404
00:31:30,455 --> 00:31:34,375
I will now open, uh, the public comment period for this case.

405
00:31:34,745 --> 00:31:38,405
would anyone like to come forward either from this main hall or from,

406
00:31:38,875 --> 00:31:42,855
uh, one of our, um, overflow rooms? If so, please

407
00:31:43,135 --> 00:31:47,015
come up. State your name and address and you'll have three minutes to speak. I'm on the list, so I wasn't

408
00:31:47,295 --> 00:31:51,285
sure. Um, can I go now? Yeah. Yes ma'am. See

409
00:31:51,505 --> 00:31:54,945
katie? Yes. Katie martin. Um, my husband here, josh martin,

410
00:31:55,535 --> 00:31:58,285
live at 2200 mannequin road. Um,

411
00:31:59,725 --> 00:32:03,725
and I'd just like to clarify on the, on the whole driveway, I'm actually, um,

412
00:32:03,945 --> 00:32:07,945
opposed to changing it. I'm in favor of just leaving it and you guys not having to do anything with

413
00:32:08,105 --> 00:32:12,065
it. Um, so my, um, I've emailed you guys

414
00:32:12,425 --> 00:32:16,385
previously and just wanted to make sure that it made it into the minutes. So that's

415
00:32:16,585 --> 00:32:20,465
kind of why I'm here speaking. Um, I can go back through the emails

416
00:32:20,925 --> 00:32:24,865
if you know that I, that I sent y'all, if that is, that, that would be helpful. Yes, please.

417
00:32:24,985 --> 00:32:28,845
thank you. Absolutely. Um, I'm writing as

418
00:32:29,065 --> 00:32:32,975
a resident of the property owner at 2200 mannequin road regarding the proposed condition conditional

419
00:32:33,765 --> 00:32:37,585
use permit for the accessory dwelling at 2202 mannequin road.

420
00:32:38,385 --> 00:32:42,205
first, I wanna express that I fully support responsible development, and my intent

421
00:32:42,485 --> 00:32:45,525
is not to prevent my neighbors from improving or expanding their property.

422
00:32:46,525 --> 00:32:50,415
I understand the value that accessory housing can bring to our community. However, after

423
00:32:50,765 --> 00:32:54,645
reviewing the proposed site plan, I have concerns about the location of the

424
00:32:54,965 --> 00:32:58,865
proposed structure as it currently relates to the privacy character and

425
00:32:59,085 --> 00:33:01,285
enjoyment of my property at 2200 mannequin road.

426
00:33:03,225 --> 00:33:07,165
specifically the proposed placement, excuse me, of

427
00:33:07,385 --> 00:33:11,325
the accessory dwelling is in very close proximity to my backyard and

428
00:33:11,545 --> 00:33:15,105
living area. And I'm concerned that with even the proposed screening, the structures

429
00:33:15,905 --> 00:33:18,915
location will significantly impact the privacy of our outdoor living space.

430
00:33:20,035 --> 00:33:23,665
after the character alter the character of my property in ways that are not

431
00:33:24,105 --> 00:33:28,105
sufficiently mitigated by landscaping or fencing affect my ability to comfortably

432
00:33:28,595 --> 00:33:32,465
enjoy our yard and our home to address these concerns while still

433
00:33:32,945 --> 00:33:36,745
allowing the project to move forward. I respectfully request that the commission consider

434
00:33:37,015 --> 00:33:40,625
requiring the applicant to relocate the proposed accessor accessible

435
00:33:41,655 --> 00:33:45,345
accessory dwelling further down their property property, ideally

436
00:33:45,705 --> 00:33:49,585
closer to the existing living quarters or garage. I believe this adjustment

437
00:33:49,945 --> 00:33:53,515
would better balance the needs of all parties preserving re reasonable

438
00:33:54,185 --> 00:33:58,105
privacy and enjoyment without preventing use of their property. Additionally,

439
00:33:58,385 --> 00:34:02,095
I would like to suggest that the county consider revising the easement agreement

440
00:34:02,765 --> 00:34:06,425
to maintain the driveway in its current location rather than creating a new access point

441
00:34:06,975 --> 00:34:10,925
through the existing properties. Keeping the driveway where it currently

442
00:34:11,535 --> 00:34:15,055
exists would help minimize new disturbances to neighboring properties and preserve

443
00:34:15,655 --> 00:34:18,895
existing usage patterns. Um, in addition to that,

444
00:34:20,025 --> 00:34:23,945
we're concerned about the potential effects of construction and ground disturbance on our well, which

445
00:34:24,295 --> 00:34:27,175
is located very close to the area, um, where they're proposing,

446
00:34:28,345 --> 00:34:32,255
we're worried about the structural integrity and long-term safety of our well system.

447
00:34:32,755 --> 00:34:36,645
and eva, um, evacuation incurs so close to

448
00:34:36,845 --> 00:34:39,565
it, respectfully request that this aspect be considered by the commission.

449
00:34:42,025 --> 00:34:43,165
did you guys have any questions for me

450
00:34:46,245 --> 00:34:49,985
to I do. Um, to make it easier on you, is there

451
00:34:51,185 --> 00:34:55,145
a better location or is it just a slight moving of where it

452
00:34:55,345 --> 00:34:59,265
is? I mean, it's an odd shaped piece of property. It is an odd shaped property

453
00:34:59,445 --> 00:35:03,245
and it, and it's, it's very slanted. Okay. Um, the property itself,

454
00:35:04,545 --> 00:35:08,465
I don't, I don't know what their availability is down there. Um, I just

455
00:35:08,625 --> 00:35:12,445
know where the proposed lot, I mean, it's, yeah, I sent pictures in this morning, I'd

456
00:35:12,665 --> 00:35:15,985
be happy to turn them in. It is so thin through there already.

457
00:35:16,855 --> 00:35:20,655
um, you know, seeing their property, that having a home right there, you

458
00:35:20,875 --> 00:35:24,775
know, in our backyard where a pool is and, you know, we entertain right. Pinch, you know, it's just, um,

459
00:35:25,135 --> 00:35:29,075
and as you mentioned, it's, it's a, it's a pretty large home that they're looking to build. Yeah.

460
00:35:29,895 --> 00:35:33,715
um, and I feel like it had, it's kind of, kind of hinder right. In

461
00:35:33,935 --> 00:35:37,805
our, our space. Got it. Um, so I, I, you know, I,

462
00:35:38,045 --> 00:35:42,005
I want them to be able to, to build, but sure. I'm just wondering if we can be open

463
00:35:42,165 --> 00:35:44,685
to some other location to where it's not,

464
00:35:46,835 --> 00:35:49,775
you know, infringing on our, our property lines. Thank you. Mm-hmm .

465
00:35:51,335 --> 00:35:55,175
any other questions? No, you did say it's a slanted property. Um,

466
00:35:55,775 --> 00:35:59,725
is, so I, I assume that as you get farther from the road, it drops

467
00:36:00,145 --> 00:36:03,595
down. Is that what you mean by that? So when we, so the shared driveway,

468
00:36:04,215 --> 00:36:08,185
um, the two homes, my home and the front neighbor, he, it's, it's

469
00:36:08,475 --> 00:36:12,375
flat. But to get down to their home, you have to go down a, a pretty large, um,

470
00:36:13,065 --> 00:36:17,015
decline to get down. So they're from my house down to

471
00:36:17,235 --> 00:36:21,135
them. It's, it's a pretty large decline. All right. And,

472
00:36:21,375 --> 00:36:25,295
and to the garage that they have, do you familiar with

473
00:36:25,415 --> 00:36:28,655
that? Is that, is that, uh, a, a downhill grade as well?

474
00:36:30,045 --> 00:36:33,255
it is slan down. Yeah. That's what you mean by that. From where we we're. Yeah. Alright. Yeah.

475
00:36:34,545 --> 00:36:38,525
and I feel like where they're looking to build is, is more at the top of

476
00:36:38,725 --> 00:36:42,405
where the slant, you know, is kind of down. So you prefer it to be more down toward

477
00:36:42,785 --> 00:36:46,685
the garage? I do, yeah. Because, you know, we don't really see the garage. I mean, I can see it, but it's

478
00:36:46,925 --> 00:36:50,605
not okay. It's not there, you know, that seems fair.

479
00:36:51,275 --> 00:36:55,145
yeah. Thank you. Um, ben? Yes.

480
00:36:56,815 --> 00:37:00,645
would the applicant be a available to talk about making

481
00:37:00,885 --> 00:37:04,885
those changes or, uh, would you like to

482
00:37:04,965 --> 00:37:07,365
come up respond? I'm sorry.

483
00:37:11,635 --> 00:37:15,205
yeah. So there is a reason you've proposed this location?

484
00:37:15,825 --> 00:37:19,795
um, yes. Um, the lot is

485
00:37:20,165 --> 00:37:23,455
very weirdly shaped mm-hmm . And I know ideally

486
00:37:24,275 --> 00:37:28,015
my in-laws wouldn't prefer the house to be in the

487
00:37:28,375 --> 00:37:32,335
location that it is set to be right now, but just playing

488
00:37:32,735 --> 00:37:36,535
around with the setbacks and the soil evaluation setbacks

489
00:37:37,115 --> 00:37:40,345
and their well is on the line.

490
00:37:41,785 --> 00:37:45,605
so for septic, we have to have the house there

491
00:37:46,185 --> 00:37:50,045
and put the septic on the other side of the property. That way

492
00:37:50,305 --> 00:37:53,425
his well does not affect it. And we respect the

493
00:37:54,965 --> 00:37:58,635
feet that they setbacks, the setbacks that they ask him between these, the new

494
00:37:59,055 --> 00:38:01,045
septic and then his, well,

495
00:38:04,455 --> 00:38:08,375
so you, you're saying that you, there's no way you

496
00:38:08,595 --> 00:38:12,175
could move it even slightly down, out of her

497
00:38:12,715 --> 00:38:16,395
backyard and toward your garage? Uh, because the setbacks

498
00:38:16,955 --> 00:38:20,595
on the garage, uh, I don't know what is the setbacks,

499
00:38:21,155 --> 00:38:25,015
but I don't think we can put close to the garage because they, uh,

500
00:38:25,375 --> 00:38:28,855
the setbacks require a big amount

501
00:38:29,415 --> 00:38:33,055
on people. I'm not sure I understand setbacks. Yes.

502
00:38:33,455 --> 00:38:37,085
um, so in addition to the, uh, for principal

503
00:38:37,605 --> 00:38:41,405
structure, which would be a dwelling or an accessory dwelling, right. Um, they're required to have,

504
00:38:41,705 --> 00:38:45,645
uh, be 20 feet off of the side property lines, which would be these three as well as this

505
00:38:45,865 --> 00:38:49,565
one. Yep. And 35 feet off of the rear property line. Mm-hmm

506
00:38:50,005 --> 00:38:53,645
. Uh, the, um, garage may be located closer

507
00:38:54,035 --> 00:38:58,025
than that. Um, as an accessory structure, it's only required to be five feet off

508
00:38:58,245 --> 00:39:02,205
of a rear and side property line. So it seems there would be some

509
00:39:02,445 --> 00:39:06,445
room available to slide that second dwelling down toward

510
00:39:06,805 --> 00:39:09,285
the garage to at least get it somewhat out of the way.

511
00:39:11,935 --> 00:39:15,725
that make sense? It is a, um, awkward shaped lot.

512
00:39:16,055 --> 00:39:20,055
yeah, I see that. Great constraints, um, I think

513
00:39:20,215 --> 00:39:24,015
goes straight south, straight towards the garage can solve the same,

514
00:39:24,245 --> 00:39:25,175
it's the only place you can go.

515
00:39:28,475 --> 00:39:32,415
is there a driveway going from to the

516
00:39:32,695 --> 00:39:36,415
garage currently? The, the blue, is there any type of a driveway going

517
00:39:36,755 --> 00:39:40,335
to that right now? Yes. Uh, so this would eliminate that

518
00:39:40,815 --> 00:39:44,775
driveway? Correct. Over there. Be now we

519
00:39:44,995 --> 00:39:47,875
will, we will have the house on the other side of the existing driveway.

520
00:39:50,285 --> 00:39:54,255
the, the driveway will be stay on. Where is it? So there's also

521
00:39:54,535 --> 00:39:57,175
a driveway that's going to be next to the proposed,

522
00:39:58,595 --> 00:40:02,235
uh, that driveway is for, for the entrance between, uh,

523
00:40:02,685 --> 00:40:04,255
manakin road and our property.

524
00:40:07,775 --> 00:40:11,415
okay. But there is, is there a driveway? Yeah. Right now extending

525
00:40:12,095 --> 00:40:16,025
from go ahead, ben. Around all the way back to yes. All the way

526
00:40:16,145 --> 00:40:20,105
back to that blue garage back there. And would that driveway be impact,

527
00:40:20,565 --> 00:40:24,505
is it, is it gonna be on one side or the other of this proposed house or is

528
00:40:24,705 --> 00:40:28,465
it going away? Will we stay on the same?

529
00:40:29,045 --> 00:40:31,145
on the same? So where is it right now?

530
00:40:33,295 --> 00:40:37,185
right by the garage, I imagine. Right. This would be the right of the proposed house. To

531
00:40:37,405 --> 00:40:41,345
the right of the proposed house. Yeah. So but between your property and

532
00:40:41,565 --> 00:40:45,485
their property, correct? Mm-hmm . Or it would be between the proposed house

533
00:40:45,865 --> 00:40:49,635
and their property, correct? Mm-hmm . Okay. That would make, or that

534
00:40:49,925 --> 00:40:53,805
would make a vegetative screening difficult if there's a

535
00:40:54,085 --> 00:40:55,935
driveway there, but

536
00:41:03,035 --> 00:41:06,075
13, um, I believe so the driveway is located,

537
00:41:07,055 --> 00:41:10,395
um, exactly to the right side. And I think from the driveway

538
00:41:11,095 --> 00:41:14,845
to their property, it's about like 13 to 14 feet. So there

539
00:41:15,225 --> 00:41:19,205
is, I know on here it looks a little bit thinner. It does, yeah. I don't have any

540
00:41:19,385 --> 00:41:23,225
images with me like to show exactly how it

541
00:41:23,445 --> 00:41:27,385
is right now, but there is enough space to do like the,

542
00:41:28,345 --> 00:41:32,215
the plantings that are being proposed. And then

543
00:41:38,625 --> 00:41:42,525
I'm still kind of hung up on, I, I get what you are with the garage. I just don't

544
00:41:42,765 --> 00:41:46,225
know that you can make that dwelling as we see it on this map.

545
00:41:47,075 --> 00:41:50,885
move down south, south toward the garage

546
00:41:51,705 --> 00:41:54,965
to at least help relieve your neighbor's,

547
00:41:56,025 --> 00:41:59,665
you know, interest in having some more space right behind

548
00:42:00,225 --> 00:42:04,145
her backyard. Mm-hmm . Ben, ben, what is the, um, feet

549
00:42:04,435 --> 00:42:08,395
difference between the, the the red proposed and, and the, the

550
00:42:08,595 --> 00:42:12,515
garage? The, what is that approximately in terms of elevation? Is that what you mean?

551
00:42:12,695 --> 00:42:16,525
no, just feet distance apart. Distance, distance apart. Um, maybe given

552
00:42:16,875 --> 00:42:20,155
the, the red square only indicates the approximate location of the dwelling,

553
00:42:21,055 --> 00:42:24,815
uh, specific, specific review of the location of the

554
00:42:25,435 --> 00:42:29,235
dwelling and uh, to make sure that it's meeting required setbacks

555
00:42:29,755 --> 00:42:33,315
would take place during building permit review. Um, at this time, this is a conceptual

556
00:42:34,105 --> 00:42:37,135
plan. Okay? Mm-hmm . Okay, ben. Um,

557
00:42:38,215 --> 00:42:41,835
is it possible, well, maybe this is a better question for you.

558
00:42:43,355 --> 00:42:47,155
. Can, can we make it so there's not a new easement

559
00:42:48,495 --> 00:42:49,635
as, as part of the conditions?

560
00:42:56,645 --> 00:43:00,505
mr. Mclaughlin, the easement is a private easement that sits on

561
00:43:00,705 --> 00:43:04,705
the property. So, and my understanding of this, and I will let ben

562
00:43:04,905 --> 00:43:08,845
speak to this, is this is a code compliance issue with regard to entrance and

563
00:43:09,065 --> 00:43:12,785
the number of dwellings and or lots that are to be served by this

564
00:43:13,335 --> 00:43:17,305
private road or driveway. But the easement itself was put there

565
00:43:17,575 --> 00:43:21,425
when the original landowner subdivided the property. And it goes back

566
00:43:21,705 --> 00:43:25,665
a little bit in time, if I remember correctly, but the county is

567
00:43:25,885 --> 00:43:28,995
not a party to that easement. It's a private easement. Mm-hmm .

568
00:43:31,075 --> 00:43:35,045
did I answer your question? Yeah, yeah,

569
00:43:35,335 --> 00:43:39,285
I think so. Please. On the left side

570
00:43:39,575 --> 00:43:43,415
of the new property, uh, I'm sorry, on the left side of the new

571
00:43:43,655 --> 00:43:47,535
building or the new mm-hmm . Uh, threat, we will

572
00:43:47,735 --> 00:43:51,515
have the septic lines because on the right

573
00:43:51,835 --> 00:43:55,675
side is his well, so it is why when we was doing the soil

574
00:43:56,545 --> 00:44:00,535
test and all the evaluations for, for the septic, yeah. They put

575
00:44:00,755 --> 00:44:03,855
the septic on the, on the

576
00:44:04,785 --> 00:44:08,735
left side because on the right side he has his, well on

577
00:44:08,955 --> 00:44:12,835
his wall is not deep in there with about a hundred, I think it's

578
00:44:13,075 --> 00:44:16,895
a hundred feet from the septic to his. Well, and

579
00:44:17,135 --> 00:44:21,015
it is why the house is there because we will have

580
00:44:21,255 --> 00:44:25,065
to have the septic on the older side. Okay.

581
00:44:26,545 --> 00:44:30,255
counsel, may I share, um, with the planning commission,

582
00:44:30,795 --> 00:44:34,635
the, uh, applicant's, um, soil evaluation that

583
00:44:34,925 --> 00:44:36,545
they submitted. Okay.

584
00:45:15,005 --> 00:45:18,365
I see a proposed, proposed. Well, that's what I was saying.

585
00:45:20,275 --> 00:45:21,045
there's not proposed

586
00:45:29,035 --> 00:45:30,045
that that's that

587
00:45:41,625 --> 00:45:41,855
in house

588
00:45:50,005 --> 00:45:50,355
right here.

589
00:45:56,225 --> 00:45:59,675
right. But I don't see why they can't drop this

590
00:46:00,795 --> 00:46:04,115
just closer. And as they move that way, they're dropping terrain.

591
00:46:05,245 --> 00:46:07,285
I get it, but I mean, not sure.

592
00:46:10,425 --> 00:46:14,385
and they can't go in that direction because of

593
00:46:14,605 --> 00:46:17,445
the septic field. Mm-hmm . Thank you for your patience. Yeah. Chris,

594
00:46:20,815 --> 00:46:21,555
that's really gonna help.

595
00:46:25,555 --> 00:46:29,375
question. I it,

596
00:46:31,045 --> 00:46:34,685
so there's, we go, so that's this dot on the map here, right? Mm-hmm

597
00:46:35,145 --> 00:46:35,145
.

598
00:46:39,205 --> 00:46:43,065
but you see this is where their house is. Mm-hmm . You move this

599
00:46:43,265 --> 00:46:44,655
down, they're much further away.

600
00:46:47,665 --> 00:46:51,595
okay. Thank you. Thank

601
00:46:51,945 --> 00:46:52,165
you ben.

602
00:46:56,485 --> 00:47:00,385
so what we're looking at is just a, a draft, a draft, um, from matthew's soil.

603
00:47:01,005 --> 00:47:04,135
uh, it shows where all the existing dwellings are, the barn,

604
00:47:05,285 --> 00:47:07,985
um, the proposed house. It shows where,

605
00:47:10,025 --> 00:47:13,825
um, the new septic would go and mm-hmm . The

606
00:47:14,045 --> 00:47:17,435
well locations. Just explaining that to,

607
00:47:18,075 --> 00:47:18,855
to everyone in the crowd.

608
00:47:26,535 --> 00:47:29,365
so initially on the first meeting, I, I know,

609
00:47:30,745 --> 00:47:34,385
so this issue was discussed and I'm aware that my

610
00:47:34,755 --> 00:47:38,535
in-laws initially wanted to build a two story

611
00:47:38,915 --> 00:47:42,765
home, um, just because of like the width of that piece of land,

612
00:47:43,175 --> 00:47:45,255
right. Um, after hearing their,

613
00:47:47,245 --> 00:47:51,135
um, concerns regarding the property being located

614
00:47:51,615 --> 00:47:54,855
there, um, they have accepted to do it

615
00:47:55,735 --> 00:47:59,665
a one story house. That way it's not

616
00:48:00,355 --> 00:48:04,305
that high up and it won't invade their privacy as much as a one story or

617
00:48:04,605 --> 00:48:08,085
a one level homewood as a two level homewood, that's a big deal.

618
00:48:09,035 --> 00:48:12,505
yeah. Um, I

619
00:48:13,165 --> 00:48:17,145
you're representing your in-laws, correct? Yeah. I'm just wondering whether we,

620
00:48:17,345 --> 00:48:20,905
we shouldn't have them here to kind of make a decision

621
00:48:21,855 --> 00:48:25,775
that you don't have to make for them. They're here with

622
00:48:25,975 --> 00:48:29,135
us. We're just, oh, I'm sorry. Just decided to come up here due to the

623
00:48:30,055 --> 00:48:34,055
language barrier. Oh, didn't know that. I'm sorry. I thought they were not available. Yeah, it's their present time.

624
00:48:34,495 --> 00:48:35,605
. Got it. Okay.

625
00:48:41,465 --> 00:48:45,405
he is willing to also do eight, eight feet fans

626
00:48:46,495 --> 00:48:50,335
vis fence. Can you, uh, push the mic closer a little bit so everybody can hear you?

627
00:48:50,845 --> 00:48:54,825
he's willing to, uh, build a eight, eight

628
00:48:55,175 --> 00:48:58,755
feet fence, uh, to hold the vis okay. On

629
00:48:59,235 --> 00:49:03,215
in the backyard? Yes. And then, uh, all along their property. So an eight

630
00:49:03,295 --> 00:49:07,285
foot privacy fence and then some green evergreen es that

631
00:49:07,645 --> 00:49:11,245
will be growing also could be help de bit helping.

632
00:49:21,165 --> 00:49:24,685
and are those listed as conditions? Ben? No. Uh,

633
00:49:25,405 --> 00:49:29,305
the eight foot fence? I don't think that was now, no, there was no think she's just offering them now?

634
00:49:29,685 --> 00:49:33,555
no, there was no fence. Uh, that is not a current condition, right?

635
00:49:33,905 --> 00:49:35,775
it's just a vegetative screening. Okay.

636
00:49:39,255 --> 00:49:42,705
okay. Uh, so then go ahead. I was just gonna,

637
00:49:44,335 --> 00:49:47,015
we talk to yeah. Each other. Yeah. Um,

638
00:49:49,205 --> 00:49:53,095
I'm not sure if it's been explored how far south, right. They

639
00:49:53,385 --> 00:49:57,345
can go. I really wanna see 'em come a little further south. Yep. I agree.

640
00:49:57,705 --> 00:50:01,705
I was looking at the topo on the, on the map and where the new drain field go and the,

641
00:50:01,925 --> 00:50:05,695
and propose. Well, I, I'm not sure. I, I think it might be

642
00:50:06,155 --> 00:50:09,915
possible, but if not, we, I'd at least wanna see like a letter from

643
00:50:10,195 --> 00:50:13,115
someone saying that it's not possible to go further towards the barn.

644
00:50:15,295 --> 00:50:18,195
I agree. Mm-hmm . I'll do that. Uh,

645
00:50:19,705 --> 00:50:23,095
would a deferral, um, until that can be explored,

646
00:50:23,735 --> 00:50:27,645
I think that's the answer. Uh, maybe the march meeting as what would that

647
00:50:27,845 --> 00:50:31,745
be? Um, march 19th. You have march 19th. Uh,

648
00:50:32,165 --> 00:50:34,945
february 19th or march 19th. March 19th, okay. Mm-hmm . Um,

649
00:50:37,415 --> 00:50:40,645
madam chair, I believe you'll want to close the public hearing when that time comes.

650
00:50:41,425 --> 00:50:45,135
my apologies. Um, well, or is anybody else have, would

651
00:50:45,485 --> 00:50:49,465
anyone else like to speak? There's no one in that one.

652
00:50:49,715 --> 00:50:52,085
that one in there? Okay. I'll now close the public hearing.

653
00:50:54,015 --> 00:50:57,725
madam chair, I move that the commission defer consideration of conditional

654
00:50:58,225 --> 00:51:00,955
use permit cu 2 0 2 5 dash 0 0 0 1 1.

655
00:51:02,795 --> 00:51:06,665
application by jose carmen correa hanno and

656
00:51:06,885 --> 00:51:09,505
anna isabel ramirez. Ohno to

657
00:51:11,975 --> 00:51:15,545
march, february. March, uh,

658
00:51:16,775 --> 00:51:18,375
march. Let's do march. March, march.

659
00:51:20,895 --> 00:51:24,665
I'll second. Uh,

660
00:51:24,985 --> 00:51:25,565
mr. Kimberly.

661
00:51:29,935 --> 00:51:33,155
aye. Mr. Patek? Aye. Ms. Kowalski?

662
00:51:34,055 --> 00:51:38,015
aye. Mr. Mclaughlin aye. The motion to defer to

663
00:51:38,235 --> 00:51:41,735
the march 19th, 2026 planning commission meeting passes

664
00:51:42,415 --> 00:51:43,715
on a, on a four oh vote.

665
00:51:47,885 --> 00:51:51,625
thank you. Mm-hmm . Our third public hearing item tonight

666
00:51:52,455 --> 00:51:56,455
is in district two and district three, rz

667
00:51:56,675 --> 00:52:00,655
20 25 7. Application by s barbie cox

668
00:52:01,285 --> 00:52:05,255
third requesting a proffer amendment to rezoning case rz 2006

669
00:52:06,175 --> 00:52:10,145
26 project rose retreat to waive zoning ordinance

670
00:52:10,755 --> 00:52:14,675
section 15 3 53 requiring right and

671
00:52:14,835 --> 00:52:17,655
left turn lanes on two on 225.6

672
00:52:19,795 --> 00:52:23,795
12 acres on four house road, approximately 0.9 miles west of

673
00:52:23,995 --> 00:52:27,795
sandy hook road on tax map numbers 31 1 0 19 a

674
00:52:28,215 --> 00:52:30,535
30 27 a 1 0 30 27

675
00:52:32,595 --> 00:52:32,715
b 1, 31 1 19 31, 1 19

676
00:52:37,955 --> 00:52:41,545
b and 31 19 d. The property is zoned residential

677
00:52:43,635 --> 00:52:47,545
preservation rp with proffered conditions. The comprehensive plan

678
00:52:47,835 --> 00:52:49,955
designates this area as rural enhancement area.

679
00:52:51,855 --> 00:52:55,285
thank you, ms. Parker. Madam chair again for the record. My name's carrie

680
00:52:55,885 --> 00:52:58,525
raglan and I'll be providing the staff presentation for this application.

681
00:53:00,105 --> 00:53:03,885
as stated, this request is in both districts two and three. It is an application

682
00:53:04,465 --> 00:53:08,205
for a proffer amendment to rezoning case rz 2006 26

683
00:53:09,585 --> 00:53:12,725
for the purpose of securing a waiver from the county turn lane requirements.

684
00:53:15,385 --> 00:53:19,135
the vicinity map on the left shows a subject area outlined in red, while

685
00:53:19,485 --> 00:53:23,045
the aerial photo on the right indicates a subject property also outlined in red.

686
00:53:23,945 --> 00:53:27,595
for a better reference, the parcel is located south of poorhouse road

687
00:53:27,975 --> 00:53:31,285
about a mile east of route 5 22, which is sandy hook road.

688
00:53:34,035 --> 00:53:37,885
the zoning map on the left demonstrates the property as the rp residential

689
00:53:38,655 --> 00:53:42,495
preservation district and the adjacent properties as the a two agricultural

690
00:53:43,735 --> 00:53:47,175
district. The comprehensive plan map on the right demonstrates the subject

691
00:53:47,775 --> 00:53:50,415
property and adjacent properties all as rural enhancement area.

692
00:53:55,145 --> 00:53:59,115
the property was approved for a rezoning in 2007 from

693
00:53:59,405 --> 00:54:03,005
the a two agricultural district to the rp residential preservation

694
00:54:03,885 --> 00:54:07,555
district for a 45 lot subdivision. A tentative plot

695
00:54:07,905 --> 00:54:11,845
was approved by the planning commission in 2008, but expired in 2020

696
00:54:12,625 --> 00:54:16,565
as no further action or permits were taken on the property. Staff understand

697
00:54:17,125 --> 00:54:20,845
that the reason for no activity was primarily due to the timing of the

698
00:54:21,165 --> 00:54:25,015
approval around the 2008 recession. In

699
00:54:25,235 --> 00:54:29,035
2024, the county code requirements for access management changed,

700
00:54:30,025 --> 00:54:33,935
requiring a left and right turn lane for the proposed development. The

701
00:54:34,155 --> 00:54:38,155
development was not grandfathered into any previous code requirements due to inactivity.

702
00:54:40,005 --> 00:54:43,985
today the developer must either install the turn lanes or receive

703
00:54:44,595 --> 00:54:47,835
a waiver from the board of supervisors in the form of a proffer amendment.

704
00:54:52,055 --> 00:54:55,955
the request before you tonight is to consider the proffer amendment to rezoning case

705
00:54:56,395 --> 00:55:00,295
rz 2006 26. No changes are

706
00:55:00,795 --> 00:55:04,795
proposed other than adding the 13th proffer, which is proffer m to request

707
00:55:05,335 --> 00:55:09,195
the turn lane waivers. The new proffer requests a full waiver

708
00:55:09,435 --> 00:55:13,235
from the left turn lane requirements and a variation from the right turn lane

709
00:55:13,475 --> 00:55:17,235
requirements. The slide

710
00:55:17,635 --> 00:55:21,575
shows the proffered concept plan. The image is quite busy, but

711
00:55:21,795 --> 00:55:25,065
I'll point out the proposed developments shaded mostly in gray here,

712
00:55:26,045 --> 00:55:29,975
which is two internal loops with 45 lots surrounded by

713
00:55:30,225 --> 00:55:34,195
open space. And then the, uh, entrance proposed here on poorhouse

714
00:55:34,705 --> 00:55:34,705
road

715
00:55:42,325 --> 00:55:46,265
access management now requires that developments located on a collector

716
00:55:46,665 --> 00:55:50,535
road as defined by the major thoroughfare plan with five lots

717
00:55:50,825 --> 00:55:54,345
or more. Must provide a right turn lane. Similarly, developments

718
00:55:55,135 --> 00:55:58,935
with a, with 10 lots or more on a collector road. Must provide left

719
00:55:59,225 --> 00:56:02,865
turn lanes as poorhouse road is classified as a major collector

720
00:56:03,645 --> 00:56:07,585
in the mtp poorhouse road is classified as a major collector. Thank you.

721
00:56:15,925 --> 00:56:19,835
let's see. County code requires an auxiliary lane and turn tapers

722
00:56:20,235 --> 00:56:24,230
for turn lanes. The applicant is proffering right turn taper into the development

723
00:56:25,025 --> 00:56:28,955
as demonstrated in the image on the right, but it is not a full auxiliary

724
00:56:29,565 --> 00:56:33,495
lane. Therefore, the request is for a waiver from both the left and

725
00:56:33,695 --> 00:56:34,575
right turn lane full requirements.

726
00:56:40,975 --> 00:56:44,955
the code further identifies five factors that the board should consider with the

727
00:56:45,075 --> 00:56:49,005
waiver request. These include site distance, road alignment, and

728
00:56:49,225 --> 00:56:52,585
grade changes, frequency of rear end crashes along the roadway

729
00:56:53,575 --> 00:56:57,385
traffic volume, speed limit, and capacity analysis of

730
00:56:57,585 --> 00:56:58,105
the receiving roadway.

731
00:57:02,925 --> 00:57:06,865
to address these concerns, the applicant has provided a letter addressing the five factors

732
00:57:07,935 --> 00:57:11,815
stating that the entrance location exceeds the vdot required site

733
00:57:12,345 --> 00:57:16,265
distance along poorhouse road that no rear end collisions have occurred in

734
00:57:16,425 --> 00:57:19,985
the past eight years. That the proposed development would generate an additional

735
00:57:20,625 --> 00:57:24,265
534 trips per day, that the statutory

736
00:57:24,915 --> 00:57:28,695
speed is 55 miles per hour. And that with

737
00:57:28,985 --> 00:57:32,905
the addition of the proposed development poorhouse road, would be at approximately 12%

738
00:57:33,925 --> 00:57:35,545
of the roadways overall capacity.

739
00:57:40,605 --> 00:57:44,145
their letter further argues that there is not enough development developer

740
00:57:44,805 --> 00:57:48,655
owned right of way to install the left turn lane pursuant to

741
00:57:48,935 --> 00:57:52,755
the vdot design standards. Also submitted with the application

742
00:57:53,295 --> 00:57:57,075
was a turn lane warrant analysis prepared by grove slate, which states

743
00:57:57,435 --> 00:58:01,275
that a left turn lane is not required by vdot standards.

744
00:58:05,905 --> 00:58:09,795
the slide provides a visual reference along poorhouse road at the approximate

745
00:58:10,515 --> 00:58:13,525
site entrance showing both an eastbound and westbound view

746
00:58:18,965 --> 00:58:22,455
reviewing the comprehensive plan. The subject property and all adjacent properties

747
00:58:23,115 --> 00:58:26,975
are designated as rural enhancement. Some definitions are provided here

748
00:58:27,215 --> 00:58:30,775
on the screen. The application is consistent with the comprehensive

749
00:58:31,405 --> 00:58:31,405
plan.

750
00:58:35,555 --> 00:58:39,395
a community meeting was held on november 12th, 2025. Four citizens

751
00:58:39,595 --> 00:58:43,595
were in attendance along with board of supervisor member jonathan lyle and planning commissioner

752
00:58:44,075 --> 00:58:47,755
martin dean. Questions were raised regarding the provided traffic

753
00:58:48,125 --> 00:58:51,955
study for the development, the existing traffic at the intersection of

754
00:58:52,155 --> 00:58:56,115
poorhouse road and route 5 22, secondary access for

755
00:58:56,315 --> 00:58:59,275
the proposed development and timelines for construction

756
00:59:00,455 --> 00:59:03,885
staff also answered questions regarding the rationale for the 2024

757
00:59:04,905 --> 00:59:08,785
access management code changes and which other applications had

758
00:59:09,325 --> 00:59:10,845
received the waiver since the code changes

759
00:59:15,255 --> 00:59:19,115
on this screen is the precise new proffer language, which requests

760
00:59:19,775 --> 00:59:23,405
the two waivers from the board of supervisors, but also proffers

761
00:59:23,925 --> 00:59:27,485
the right turn taper as demonstrated on the approved conceptual

762
00:59:28,115 --> 00:59:31,835
plan and proffer sees at the bottom of the screen for

763
00:59:32,335 --> 00:59:33,895
reference as they reference each other.

764
00:59:37,655 --> 00:59:41,125
madam chair, this concludes the staff presentation. Uh, the applicant

765
00:59:41,665 --> 00:59:45,365
is here and does have a, um, a powerpoint slide

766
00:59:45,705 --> 00:59:48,045
as well. Do you have any questions for me at this time?

767
00:59:51,695 --> 00:59:55,615
any questions? Um, just so I understand it,

768
00:59:56,155 --> 00:59:59,815
um, vdot is not recommending they

769
01:00:00,195 --> 01:00:03,955
put in either turn lane correct. By their standards? Pardon

770
01:00:04,395 --> 01:00:08,375
me? But the county does. Yes, sir. The

771
01:00:08,575 --> 01:00:12,495
county has stricter code requirements, so there's really not

772
01:00:12,735 --> 01:00:16,695
a choice. The code does provide provisions for

773
01:00:17,195 --> 01:00:18,925
considering a waiver. Okay.

774
01:00:21,345 --> 01:00:25,115
poor house road is 55. It is. Mm-hmm .

775
01:00:25,635 --> 01:00:29,435
unposted speed statutory is 55. That's fast.

776
01:00:30,135 --> 01:00:33,965
that's what what was the thinking behind the rationale of

777
01:00:34,365 --> 01:00:37,905
the new, uh, ordinance for a right and left turn lane?

778
01:00:38,745 --> 01:00:42,525
I believe it was generally for safety and there's some language in the code which, um,

779
01:00:42,755 --> 01:00:46,485
calls out the reason for some of the auxiliary lanes. I included, um,

780
01:00:46,865 --> 01:00:50,625
a snippet on one of the slides. I can bring that up, but it, it just generally for safety.

781
01:00:51,215 --> 01:00:54,955
okay. Do we know what the site

782
01:00:55,765 --> 01:00:59,695
distance in feet from that proposed entrance on

783
01:00:59,915 --> 01:01:03,735
either side around approximately? Is that ever, that's

784
01:01:04,155 --> 01:01:08,025
something that we generally see in the precise measurements with the plan of development. Okay.

785
01:01:08,315 --> 01:01:12,275
um, so we don't have the opportunity to, so we're not even there engineer that at, at this time.

786
01:01:12,635 --> 01:01:16,635
I believe that's something the applicant has considered, but there's no plan of

787
01:01:16,795 --> 01:01:20,595
development at this time for staff to, um, confirm. But you did show

788
01:01:20,855 --> 01:01:24,795
two photographs. Mm-hmm . Looking east and west. Yes, sir. I can pull those

789
01:01:24,995 --> 01:01:25,665
up again. Yeah.

790
01:01:34,235 --> 01:01:38,005
yeah. And I will note this is at the approximate

791
01:01:38,895 --> 01:01:42,795
entrance location. I can't be certain. Sure. You know, a couple dozen feet one

792
01:01:43,015 --> 01:01:43,935
way or the other. Mm-hmm .

793
01:01:47,075 --> 01:01:50,995
you mentioned that they don't currently have right of ways for

794
01:01:51,275 --> 01:01:55,105
the left full left turn lane. Yes, sir. But they do for a taper.

795
01:01:56,315 --> 01:01:59,575
yes. And do you know if there's been an attempt to gain right of way?

796
01:02:00,855 --> 01:02:04,715
I believe the applicant will discuss that at his presentation. And my recollection is,

797
01:02:04,995 --> 01:02:07,175
um, he has asked and has gotten mixed answers.

798
01:02:11,085 --> 01:02:14,885
it says in there there's an increases uh, traffic by

799
01:02:15,295 --> 01:02:19,035
530 some cars. Is that right? Mm-hmm . Do you know the calculation

800
01:02:19,615 --> 01:02:23,315
how they come up with that number? It's based on an ite count. So that essentially

801
01:02:23,755 --> 01:02:27,625
there's a, a book that they use to generate the number of, um, traffic

802
01:02:28,595 --> 01:02:31,585
expected for developments. And it's a, it's a standard calculation.

803
01:02:32,705 --> 01:02:36,185
okay. For 49 lots, that would be an extra 534

804
01:02:38,245 --> 01:02:42,035
daily trips for 45 lots. Yes ma'am. Or 45 lots they had stated 534.

805
01:02:43,145 --> 01:02:46,595
yeah, roughly it's 10 trips per per house.

806
01:02:48,575 --> 01:02:52,535
so more things than I do. I believe that

807
01:02:52,785 --> 01:02:56,415
their traffic expert is here as well. You my specific questions leaving five

808
01:02:56,815 --> 01:03:00,215
times, coming back five times with, you know, a family of how many,

809
01:03:01,115 --> 01:03:01,605
so, okay.

810
01:03:06,375 --> 01:03:10,375
so I guess the question is, is how much does a taper help versus

811
01:03:11,035 --> 01:03:13,315
a full turn lane?

812
01:03:15,225 --> 01:03:19,045
the code calls out the need for an auxiliary lane, um, in order to move traffic

813
01:03:19,465 --> 01:03:23,135
off the road. So the, the, the taper

814
01:03:23,485 --> 01:03:27,245
does allow for traffic to slowly turn in, but it doesn't provide a full auxiliary

815
01:03:27,845 --> 01:03:31,725
lane for traffic to pass by. Thus, that would be the full lane. That would be the full auxiliary

816
01:03:32,125 --> 01:03:34,385
lane. Turn lane. Mm-hmm . So partial versus

817
01:03:36,435 --> 01:03:39,665
fall. Yes. Is there any, um,

818
01:03:40,915 --> 01:03:44,745
thought on vdot putting any, um, signage, um,

819
01:03:45,305 --> 01:03:48,785
around this entrance if the turn lanes are waived? Um,

820
01:03:50,195 --> 01:03:54,045
that is not a discussion that we've had with vdot. Um, as vdot doesn't

821
01:03:55,235 --> 01:03:58,905
require the turn lanes, I wouldn't imagine there would be a requirement for

822
01:03:59,625 --> 01:04:01,125
any different signage, I thought.

823
01:04:05,545 --> 01:04:09,405
any other questions? No, no, no. I'd just like to hear from the applicant. Thank you. Uh, would

824
01:04:09,565 --> 01:04:10,605
the applicant like to come up and speak?

825
01:04:13,675 --> 01:04:14,285
what let you do that

826
01:04:34,015 --> 01:04:34,595
front back?

827
01:04:41,955 --> 01:04:45,685
good evening, madam chair. My name is jeff geiger here on behalf of the applicant.

828
01:04:47,145 --> 01:04:51,005
um, I appreciate the commission's, um, consideration of this,

829
01:04:51,505 --> 01:04:55,405
uh, waiver request. Uh, I thank mr. Raglan for, uh, a good summary.

830
01:04:56,145 --> 01:05:00,025
I'm gonna dive into the details just a little bit more touch on a couple things, uh,

831
01:05:00,245 --> 01:05:04,205
that she mentioned. But my goal is to, um, dive in a little bit more on the details.

832
01:05:05,585 --> 01:05:09,485
um, as she mentioned, uh, this case was approved, uh, oh roughly

833
01:05:09,735 --> 01:05:13,485
about 20 years ago. Um, and in that, at that time,

834
01:05:14,345 --> 01:05:18,165
um, the board had the foresight to say, you do need a

835
01:05:18,455 --> 01:05:22,125
taper for that right turn lane. And we're here to say

836
01:05:22,815 --> 01:05:26,485
we're happy to do that, no problem. We're just asking for permission

837
01:05:26,965 --> 01:05:30,665
to move forward on the same basis that the board approved it 20 years ago.

838
01:05:32,585 --> 01:05:36,005
um, this is a drawing, uh, it's a closeup of the intersection,

839
01:05:36,825 --> 01:05:40,715
uh, that, uh, ms. Raglan showed you. Uh, it does show what

840
01:05:41,005 --> 01:05:44,815
we are proposing and what the board approved 20 years ago. There

841
01:05:45,165 --> 01:05:48,725
is a right turn taper. It's 150 feet long

842
01:05:49,825 --> 01:05:53,595
so you have enough time for the car to move to begin its movement into

843
01:05:54,165 --> 01:05:57,925
the taper and then be into the, in making the turn, uh, before

844
01:05:58,285 --> 01:05:58,845
another car passes.

845
01:06:04,985 --> 01:06:07,285
um, I believe the question was asked,

846
01:06:09,115 --> 01:06:11,895
did we? Who, who did we talk to? What are we trying to do?

847
01:06:13,645 --> 01:06:17,645
and in order to meet the vdot requirements, yes, ms.

848
01:06:18,105 --> 01:06:21,165
raglin is correct, you have a higher

849
01:06:22,185 --> 01:06:26,045
standard for providing a turn lane. It's just unfortunate

850
01:06:26,845 --> 01:06:30,345
that vdot controls the roads. And so

851
01:06:30,935 --> 01:06:34,865
vdot says, we would love for you to turn in, put in turn

852
01:06:35,065 --> 01:06:38,535
lanes, but you need almost 800 feet

853
01:06:39,705 --> 01:06:43,675
because it's not just the turn lanes, it the, it's the transition that you

854
01:06:43,795 --> 01:06:47,435
have to achieve. Mm-hmm . So I put this slide together to show you

855
01:06:47,815 --> 01:06:51,225
the length of land that is needed to achieve

856
01:06:52,055 --> 01:06:55,355
two simple turn lanes and it's really the left turn lane.

857
01:06:56,935 --> 01:07:00,755
now, we did speak to our neighbors on, on the other side

858
01:07:00,995 --> 01:07:04,835
of poorhouse. The one neighbor has a lot of frontage.

859
01:07:06,145 --> 01:07:09,965
he's willing to work with us no problem. Unfortunately that's not enough

860
01:07:10,385 --> 01:07:14,115
and I'll get to that in a minute. The other three neighbors, uh, that

861
01:07:14,505 --> 01:07:18,365
we spoke to, and we need lane from land from in order to finish the transition.

862
01:07:19,035 --> 01:07:22,995
it's not the turn lane, it's just the transition that vdot requires. They

863
01:07:23,285 --> 01:07:27,265
said, no. So that's why we are here today. They said, yes, we

864
01:07:27,485 --> 01:07:27,985
be moving on.

865
01:07:31,785 --> 01:07:35,745
now, I mentioned that there is one landowner, landowner on the other side that has

866
01:07:36,125 --> 01:07:40,045
a lot more road frontage. He's willing to

867
01:07:40,245 --> 01:07:43,315
help for the good of the county and the county's goals

868
01:07:44,335 --> 01:07:48,275
and said, so we went to vdot and we said, hey, can we get, and this

869
01:07:48,395 --> 01:07:52,225
is allowed, it's called the design waiver. Can we get a design waiver for

870
01:07:52,685 --> 01:07:56,565
a different type of turn lane length and transition?

871
01:08:00,915 --> 01:08:04,415
no our way or no way.

872
01:08:07,205 --> 01:08:10,655
as much as we would like to be able to control what vdot does

873
01:08:11,405 --> 01:08:13,545
and be able to assume some level of reasonableness,

874
01:08:15,825 --> 01:08:17,925
it is unfortunate their process doesn't work that way.

875
01:08:20,245 --> 01:08:24,165
so I'd like you to recognize we're not here just because we want to and

876
01:08:24,385 --> 01:08:28,305
we're just trying to do it the easy way out. We asked, we asked again

877
01:08:28,585 --> 01:08:30,865
to vdot and we're here because we can.

878
01:08:34,085 --> 01:08:38,075
and as ms. Raglan mentioned, yes,

879
01:08:38,805 --> 01:08:42,295
your zoning ordinance in 2024 did add a higher

880
01:08:42,815 --> 01:08:46,795
standard. But when the board adopted this amendment

881
01:08:47,255 --> 01:08:50,965
to the zoning ordinance, it realized that it couldn't happen every

882
01:08:51,315 --> 01:08:54,755
time because you had other forces.

883
01:08:55,815 --> 01:08:59,515
the government just couldn't dictate to vdot what would happen. The government

884
01:08:59,835 --> 01:09:03,635
couldn't just dictate to landowners what would happen. And so they put

885
01:09:03,855 --> 01:09:05,615
this process in place for a waiver.

886
01:09:08,525 --> 01:09:10,785
as ms. Raglan mentioned, we do meet the requirements,

887
01:09:12,825 --> 01:09:16,625
we will meet the site distance requirements. We, we have already looked. Ms.

888
01:09:17,165 --> 01:09:21,095
raglan indicated that that's a later time. I wanna let you know, we've

889
01:09:21,445 --> 01:09:25,445
looked at the site distance. We have no problem meeting the site distance requirements. And

890
01:09:25,665 --> 01:09:29,565
I think that's an important point I would like you to consider. Even after

891
01:09:29,885 --> 01:09:33,515
this waiver, we have to go and get the entrance permit

892
01:09:33,915 --> 01:09:37,705
from vdot. And vdot will approve that entrance permit only

893
01:09:37,995 --> 01:09:41,715
if it's safe. And so it's not just us coming

894
01:09:42,135 --> 01:09:45,675
to the county and asking for this. There's then a second layer of approval

895
01:09:46,175 --> 01:09:50,075
and checks via vdot. There have been no rear

896
01:09:50,275 --> 01:09:53,775
end collusions. Why do we encourage turn lanes? It's safety.

897
01:09:54,325 --> 01:09:58,025
it's safety about the through movement. Um, and there

898
01:09:58,395 --> 01:10:02,375
is not, when you look at the history on this road, there is not

899
01:10:02,735 --> 01:10:06,415
a rear end, um, situation occurring. You have

900
01:10:07,165 --> 01:10:11,075
cars making left and right turn lanes on this road today, but

901
01:10:12,535 --> 01:10:15,525
it's not a safety issue. Um,

902
01:10:16,615 --> 01:10:20,525
traffic volume, uh, again, this is a traffic engineering question, but

903
01:10:20,745 --> 01:10:24,715
it's too low to warrant the turn lanes. Speed limit is

904
01:10:24,875 --> 01:10:28,835
55. Man, I wish I could convince vdot to lower speed limits. Uh, as you

905
01:10:28,995 --> 01:10:32,995
all know they do a traffic study. The speed study is the only way to get the

906
01:10:33,115 --> 01:10:37,085
traffic, the speed down. If you guys see black lines

907
01:10:37,615 --> 01:10:41,425
across a road and they're two next to each other, drive slower , because

908
01:10:42,025 --> 01:10:45,915
that speed has to come down on those when, uh, they're measuring. It's the

909
01:10:46,035 --> 01:10:49,935
only way they'll lower the speed limit. It's wish we

910
01:10:50,055 --> 01:10:53,375
could change it. Uh, and then the capacity analysis,

911
01:10:54,425 --> 01:10:57,835
just wanna let you know, uh, the existing trips, our trips

912
01:10:58,615 --> 01:11:02,515
are just 10% of the existing road capacity. There is a lot of space

913
01:11:02,835 --> 01:11:06,425
between these cars on poor house, uh, that adding this

914
01:11:07,115 --> 01:11:08,635
entrance does not present a safety problem.

915
01:11:11,205 --> 01:11:14,845
um, as was mentioned, um, there is a history for granting

916
01:11:15,285 --> 01:11:19,125
it. Uh, the most recent was a long river road. River road has an

917
01:11:19,325 --> 01:11:23,065
a dt of over 4,000 trips a day. Um,

918
01:11:23,795 --> 01:11:27,765
when we did our first analysis, um, poorhouse had 800 trips a

919
01:11:27,885 --> 01:11:31,685
day staff pointed out to us, it had actually fallen to 640

920
01:11:32,365 --> 01:11:35,565
trips a day. Um, so just wanted to let you know that.

921
01:11:37,445 --> 01:11:40,925
and again, uh, in summary, um, we're here, uh,

922
01:11:42,065 --> 01:11:45,885
to ask that, uh, we'd be allowed to move forward, uh, with what the board

923
01:11:46,325 --> 01:11:50,285
previously approved, uh, which is just that right turn, uh, taper lane.

924
01:11:51,465 --> 01:11:55,365
um, we are here to ask for the waiver that they thoughtfully

925
01:11:56,215 --> 01:11:59,955
built into the zoning ordinance, uh, because there are gonna be times when

926
01:12:00,685 --> 01:12:04,165
property owners aren't going to sell land in order to put in road improvements.

927
01:12:05,505 --> 01:12:09,085
um, and we meet the requirements for the approval, uh, of the waiver.

928
01:12:10,465 --> 01:12:14,305
uh, so on behalf of the applicant, um, I'd like to ask,

929
01:12:14,745 --> 01:12:18,725
uh, that the planning commission recommend, um, approval of the

930
01:12:18,885 --> 01:12:22,765
waiver request that is before you, I'd be glad to answer

931
01:12:22,905 --> 01:12:24,525
any questions that the commission may have at this time.

932
01:12:29,025 --> 01:12:32,465
a taper on a road. Mm-hmm . You're at 150

933
01:12:33,415 --> 01:12:37,415
feet. Yes ma'am. Can you, is is that

934
01:12:37,945 --> 01:12:41,935
a standard feet? Uh, I'm sorry, let me rephrase.

935
01:12:42,515 --> 01:12:46,015
um, can it be more, can it be less or what's the, what's the

936
01:12:46,535 --> 01:12:50,365
standard for a taper as far as the feet? Um, I've

937
01:12:50,655 --> 01:12:54,575
done a taper at 50. I've done a taper at a hundred. I've done a taper at 150. I've

938
01:12:54,855 --> 01:12:58,695
done a taper at 200. Um, so what we've done

939
01:12:58,875 --> 01:13:02,855
is the standard that length wasn't specified. Okay. And we've maxed it out as

940
01:13:03,015 --> 01:13:06,405
much as we can without hitting the next landowner.

941
01:13:07,405 --> 01:13:11,135
okay. If I may show you one thing, um, I'd like to just,

942
01:13:11,845 --> 01:13:15,635
just because you're asking, I'd like to just mm-hmm . Get it out there please. Um,

943
01:13:16,155 --> 01:13:19,855
you can see here on the, I focused on the north side where we were asking

944
01:13:20,195 --> 01:13:24,095
for land because that's where vdot wanted us to put the additional land

945
01:13:24,375 --> 01:13:28,195
in. Mm-hmm . As part of our conversation with vida, we also asked could we expand

946
01:13:28,615 --> 01:13:32,555
on the southern side of poorhouse. We have two constraints. One

947
01:13:32,775 --> 01:13:36,695
is a cemetery we really don't wanna move. Impact the cemetery. Um, you can

948
01:13:36,815 --> 01:13:40,815
see this small, um, square, it's labeled cemetery. Uh, and

949
01:13:41,015 --> 01:13:44,935
then the, there is a slight curve in there. And as you guys may know,

950
01:13:45,765 --> 01:13:49,355
vida has rules for everything and curves are have a rules too.

951
01:13:50,075 --> 01:13:53,535
and so if we expand anything on the right hand side, we're all of a sudden outside of their

952
01:13:54,535 --> 01:13:58,455
geometry curvature requirements mm-hmm . Um, and so they're not looking for us to

953
01:13:58,575 --> 01:14:02,455
do it on that side. Um, where they want it is on the north side of poorhouse.

954
01:14:03,005 --> 01:14:06,535
okay. Thank you. Other

955
01:14:07,085 --> 01:14:07,085
questions?

956
01:14:12,945 --> 01:14:16,845
any question? So even if you wanted to make it a 200 foot taper, you can't,

957
01:14:17,365 --> 01:14:21,085
'cause you don't own the property to extend it into the 200. You're correct.

958
01:14:27,215 --> 01:14:30,395
and if we approve the waiver, or if the board of supervisors approves the waiver,

959
01:14:31,415 --> 01:14:35,255
you still have to go before vdot. Yes, sir. And they could deny that? Yes,

960
01:14:35,475 --> 01:14:39,185
sir. Okay. Um, they could deny the entrance design. Yes, sir. Yeah. Alright.

961
01:14:40,105 --> 01:14:42,755
okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, sir.

962
01:14:48,675 --> 01:14:52,255
any discussion or, oh, I'm sorry. Yes, you're right.

963
01:14:52,695 --> 01:14:56,215
thank you. Um, I will now open up the public comment

964
01:14:56,995 --> 01:15:00,535
for this case. If anyone would like to come forward, please state your name and address

965
01:15:01,715 --> 01:15:05,525
and I will again pause in case there is anyone from the overflow rooms. Spencer

966
01:15:06,015 --> 01:15:06,015
warren.

967
01:15:12,985 --> 01:15:13,445
mm-hmm .

968
01:15:18,255 --> 01:15:22,025
excuse me. Hi, I'm, I'm spencer warren. I, um,

969
01:15:22,645 --> 01:15:26,375
I own a property that's kind of adjacent to where, where

970
01:15:26,725 --> 01:15:30,725
this entry is. Um, I don't really have like a, a proposed answer

971
01:15:31,125 --> 01:15:34,885
or anything like that, but as far as like my concerned, I'm sorry, could you gimme your

972
01:15:35,165 --> 01:15:39,075
address please? Yeah. 28 51 poorhouse road. Thank you. Yeah,

973
01:15:39,705 --> 01:15:43,545
so it's, it's right next to the, to the entryway, but I'm set, my

974
01:15:43,765 --> 01:15:47,765
house is set back far enough. Like I wouldn't even see it or anything like that, but, but I do have

975
01:15:47,885 --> 01:15:51,765
general concerns about the road because it is just, I'd call

976
01:15:51,965 --> 01:15:55,765
it a single lane country road. You know, it's, um, there's, there's

977
01:15:56,125 --> 01:16:00,085
no center line. There's no shoulder. If you're, you're going 55

978
01:16:00,565 --> 01:16:04,315
miles an hour, school buses go on the road. It's

979
01:16:04,625 --> 01:16:07,975
not wide at all. So if you're going in opposing directions

980
01:16:08,705 --> 01:16:12,455
as say a school bus, you have to slow down from

981
01:16:12,745 --> 01:16:16,555
the 55 miles an hour. And if you're in a, a truck, pickup truck

982
01:16:16,965 --> 01:16:20,745
or anything, like, you have to give way because the, the road

983
01:16:21,005 --> 01:16:24,985
is just not wide. Um, I, I get that

984
01:16:25,145 --> 01:16:29,005
there's been no accidents that it's, it's, it's low volume, but

985
01:16:29,575 --> 01:16:32,775
also adding in 45 houses approximately

986
01:16:33,655 --> 01:16:37,385
doubles the number of houses on the road and doubles the traffic

987
01:16:37,685 --> 01:16:40,845
that's, that's on the road. So, you know, whether that's

988
01:16:42,015 --> 01:16:45,405
safe or not, I'll leave it up to the board to, to decide. Um,

989
01:16:46,605 --> 01:16:50,285
but yeah, those are, those are kind of my, my general, um,

990
01:16:51,745 --> 01:16:55,385
concerns and just like, like for the board to, to consider those,

991
01:16:56,085 --> 01:16:59,985
uh, with regards to whether or not attorney lane, I mean,

992
01:17:00,185 --> 01:17:03,745
I think that, I think a taper on both sides is, would be probably ideal.

993
01:17:04,225 --> 01:17:08,065
I don't know how an actual left hand turn lane would even look in, in that

994
01:17:08,265 --> 01:17:12,045
spot in know, a full turn lane, but I think that the taper would

995
01:17:12,445 --> 01:17:15,755
probably be the best deal, um, just given that

996
01:17:16,475 --> 01:17:20,435
when you're going, you know, in opposing directions, you're, you got two

997
01:17:20,635 --> 01:17:24,295
cars heading at 110 miles an hour at each other. Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Um,

998
01:17:25,665 --> 01:17:29,545
yeah. So yeah, that's, that, that's kind of my, my

999
01:17:29,765 --> 01:17:33,685
general, um, concern. There's, there's also a, a large tract

1000
01:17:34,005 --> 01:17:37,915
of land that's directly across the street from there. So who knows if that

1001
01:17:38,205 --> 01:17:41,955
could potentially be developed later on as well. Um, so

1002
01:17:42,325 --> 01:17:46,215
yeah. Those, those are my concerns for the board. Thank you. Mm-hmm. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

1003
01:17:48,115 --> 01:17:49,305
would anyone else care to speak?

1004
01:17:54,475 --> 01:17:57,855
I will close the public comment period for the case. Um,

1005
01:18:00,705 --> 01:18:04,475
yeah, I, I share his concern. I know there are other tracks in this,

1006
01:18:05,645 --> 01:18:09,125
in that area that have been considered for development and, uh,

1007
01:18:09,805 --> 01:18:13,645
and I believe there are tracks being considered right now for

1008
01:18:13,865 --> 01:18:17,305
additional development. I feel like the road,

1009
01:18:18,085 --> 01:18:21,915
if we grant waivers here, how, you know, how do we then eventually

1010
01:18:22,695 --> 01:18:26,465
enforce our ordinance on turn lanes in the future?

1011
01:18:27,565 --> 01:18:30,245
um, I, I really am

1012
01:18:31,665 --> 01:18:33,445
inclined to not, uh,

1013
01:18:35,815 --> 01:18:39,345
waive our, our ordinance for this one. But,

1014
01:18:39,905 --> 01:18:43,745
so a taper is better than nothing. A taper is better than nothing. Yes. And

1015
01:18:43,965 --> 01:18:47,805
it's not as good as a full turn lane. Right. And I, I understand and the county wants

1016
01:18:48,045 --> 01:18:51,895
to enforce the turn lane. Yes. Uh, and I, I feel like the developers

1017
01:18:53,265 --> 01:18:57,165
are the only way we're gonna be, we can't get vdot to widen the road. The only, I

1018
01:18:57,285 --> 01:19:00,625
think the only thing we can do is, is expect the, the developers to

1019
01:19:02,495 --> 01:19:06,275
add, add safety to the road. So I guess the only, the

1020
01:19:06,635 --> 01:19:10,485
one thing I think about mm-hmm is that even

1021
01:19:10,775 --> 01:19:14,615
with the development, it's still under capacity. Um, indeed. Right now,

1022
01:19:14,815 --> 01:19:18,735
just because this one's approved doesn't mean the next one has to be

1023
01:19:18,855 --> 01:19:22,615
without a turn lane and proper, but it sets a precedent.

1024
01:19:23,155 --> 01:19:27,005
it does set a precedent. That's what I'm concerned about. Potentially,

1025
01:19:27,995 --> 01:19:31,615
not if the capacity has changed, but just my thoughts.

1026
01:19:32,165 --> 01:19:35,775
okay. Well, and I think a lot of that is if or when another

1027
01:19:36,175 --> 01:19:40,095
development, um, you know, this was approved back in

1028
01:19:40,215 --> 01:19:43,905
2007. I mean, we're talking about a completely different, almost 20 years

1029
01:19:44,445 --> 01:19:48,275
long time. Yeah. Um, but at the end of courthouse road, a poorhouse road, if

1030
01:19:48,495 --> 01:19:52,455
you make a a, a head south there, there was serenity trails

1031
01:19:52,815 --> 01:19:56,655
was considered right there near, and that, that would've been traffic onto this

1032
01:19:56,935 --> 01:20:00,855
road as well. Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . So there are, there's a, there's a move

1033
01:20:01,075 --> 01:20:04,935
to develop this area is my point. Mm-hmm . I,

1034
01:20:05,175 --> 01:20:09,165
I, I also share road concerns. I, I love, I love turn lanes.

1035
01:20:09,545 --> 01:20:12,185
we were actually, um, we, um,

1036
01:20:13,625 --> 01:20:17,525
for the river road, uh, development that, uh, our gentleman mm-hmm

1037
01:20:17,805 --> 01:20:21,705
. Um, referenced, we actually said, no, we do wanna a turn lane. They're safe. That's, that's, that's

1038
01:20:22,165 --> 01:20:23,385
a safe way of going. Um,

1039
01:20:26,615 --> 01:20:30,255
but I, we also can't be in charge of putting in a center lane and and

1040
01:20:30,915 --> 01:20:34,635
lowering the speed limit that's, that's not in our wheelhouse. Yeah. We can't do that either.

1041
01:20:34,935 --> 01:20:38,755
so I, I, it's a difficult situation. I, I acknowledge that

1042
01:20:40,515 --> 01:20:44,395
and I share that it's, it's not the one development, it's the four developments and

1043
01:20:44,615 --> 01:20:48,615
mm-hmm . You can't back up on number four when things suddenly are a problem and yeah.

1044
01:20:48,885 --> 01:20:52,595
yeah. Have the other, uh, entrances improved? Mm-hmm

1045
01:20:53,055 --> 01:20:56,655
. I've kind of observed that on hocket. It's, uh,

1046
01:20:57,245 --> 01:21:01,095
it's grown into, you know, quite a nice road in some spots. Mm-hmm . In some

1047
01:21:01,295 --> 01:21:05,095
spots and the same thing, fairground road, same thing, and nice spots, the safest places

1048
01:21:05,315 --> 01:21:08,595
on fairground road or is where there's a turn, where there's a development. Yeah. Oh,

1049
01:21:09,895 --> 01:21:13,355
and our board voted to change that recently. Mm-hmm .

1050
01:21:15,025 --> 01:21:15,905
I think we should enforce that.

1051
01:21:19,265 --> 01:21:22,385
and, alright, so

1052
01:21:24,345 --> 01:21:26,325
any other discussion? Would anyone like to make a motion?

1053
01:21:29,305 --> 01:21:33,125
um, sorry, is this a double

1054
01:21:33,605 --> 01:21:36,205
negative situation? ? Not if we

1055
01:21:37,955 --> 01:21:41,585
deny it, we're just denying the waiver,

1056
01:21:42,065 --> 01:21:46,005
the request for a waiver. So there I, I'll, I'll make

1057
01:21:46,085 --> 01:21:49,965
the motion based on the information in the staff report and from the public hearing, I move that

1058
01:21:50,165 --> 01:21:52,755
the commission recommend denial of the proper amendment. R 0 2 0 2 5 0 0 0 0 7

1059
01:21:56,475 --> 01:22:00,245
application by s barbie, cox ii on the grounds

1060
01:22:00,685 --> 01:22:04,405
that it is not in keeping with the public necessity and convenience,

1061
01:22:04,725 --> 01:22:07,845
general welfare and good zoning practices. I second.

1062
01:22:11,265 --> 01:22:14,225
all right. Mr. Dean. Aye. Mr. Mclaughlin?

1063
01:22:15,745 --> 01:22:19,175
aye. Ms. Kowalski aye. Mr. Patak

1064
01:22:19,785 --> 01:22:21,905
aye. Mr. Kimberly aye.

1065
01:22:24,705 --> 01:22:28,545
the motion to recommend denial passes on a five oh vote. This case is

1066
01:22:28,765 --> 01:22:32,085
tentatively scheduled to be heard by the board of supervisors on march 3rd, 2026.

1067
01:22:34,025 --> 01:22:36,485
it moves forward with a recommendation of denial from the planning commission.

1068
01:22:39,255 --> 01:22:43,245
okay. We have one more case before we

1069
01:22:43,465 --> 01:22:47,385
get started because we're gonna be here for a while. Um, we are gonna

1070
01:22:47,585 --> 01:22:50,665
take a five minute recess, get up, stretch your legs,

1071
01:22:52,005 --> 01:22:55,145
use the restroom if need be, and please, uh, come back in five. Thank you.

1072
01:22:57,465 --> 01:23:01,465
I think that was the right thing to do. Yes, but we have to, um, someone has to be there to

1073
01:23:01,625 --> 01:23:03,385
let us back in, but I'll go.

1074
01:23:26,905 --> 01:23:27,965
no, I think we had to do

1075
01:28:40,085 --> 01:28:40,085
good.

1076
01:28:44,395 --> 01:28:47,375
how you hey, put your hands on. Don't spell

1077
01:28:53,955 --> 01:28:57,775
on one second. Get a little, pick me up here at eight o'clock

1078
01:28:58,015 --> 01:28:58,215
at night.

1079
01:29:04,155 --> 01:29:04,155
okay.

1080
01:29:25,205 --> 01:29:26,765
I get grumpy after nine o'clock. Anybody?

1081
01:29:37,885 --> 01:29:40,645
right? Got like 12 people,

1082
01:29:52,625 --> 01:29:55,525
ladies and gentlemen, we'll be starting back up in one minute please.

1083
01:29:57,025 --> 01:30:00,195
oh, so there's more than one. Yeah.

1084
01:30:03,155 --> 01:30:06,325
here we go. That was,

1085
01:31:20,085 --> 01:31:22,795
there we go. I'm on. Doesn't sound like it. You are on,

1086
01:31:35,145 --> 01:31:38,745
um, our final case, um,

1087
01:31:39,905 --> 01:31:42,515
is going to begin here shortly if everyone can have a seat.

1088
01:31:44,505 --> 01:31:48,095
um, okay. Your turn.

1089
01:31:48,715 --> 01:31:52,495
our final public hearing item this evening is in district one cu 20 25 12

1090
01:31:54,285 --> 01:31:58,175
application by virginia sports park and training center ed gland requesting

1091
01:31:58,735 --> 01:32:02,685
a conditional use permit, cup for s***t shooting range or course

1092
01:32:03,145 --> 01:32:07,075
and other similar ranges or courses on an approximately 85 acre

1093
01:32:07,365 --> 01:32:11,285
portion of 372.967 acres on walton

1094
01:32:11,685 --> 01:32:15,515
road, approximately 0.4 miles north of three chop road

1095
01:32:16,025 --> 01:32:20,025
on tax map number 6 1 9 a and a portion of tax map

1096
01:32:20,245 --> 01:32:23,965
number 6 1 0 7 and 6 1 0 57 t.

1097
01:32:24,505 --> 01:32:28,285
the properties are zoned agricultural general a one and the cup is

1098
01:32:28,645 --> 01:32:32,475
required by county zoning ordinance section 15 1 0 2. The comprehensive plan

1099
01:32:32,765 --> 01:32:35,115
designates this area as rural enhancement area.

1100
01:32:38,655 --> 01:32:42,085
thank you ms. Parker. Good evening, madam chairwoman and members of the commission

1101
01:32:43,305 --> 01:32:45,885
for the record. My name is ben ellis. I am a planner with the county.

1102
01:32:49,765 --> 01:32:53,335
for you is an application by virginia sports park and training center at glin,

1103
01:32:54,015 --> 01:32:57,905
also known as vsp for a condition use permit for s***t shooting range

1104
01:32:58,285 --> 01:33:02,065
or course and similar ranges or courses. The property is located on approximately

1105
01:33:02,545 --> 01:33:05,405
85 acres on walton road in district one.

1106
01:33:07,845 --> 01:33:11,225
the map on the left shows the general vicinity of the property within the county.

1107
01:33:12,045 --> 01:33:15,985
the map on the right shows the property outlined in red and the property as well

1108
01:33:16,105 --> 01:33:18,455
as the surrounding properties exhibit a rural character

1109
01:33:20,465 --> 01:33:24,255
proposed use is found on the western portion of the property in this

1110
01:33:24,695 --> 01:33:28,595
general vicinity. Again, the proposed use is found

1111
01:33:29,935 --> 01:33:33,215
in the western portion of the property of the outline parcels.

1112
01:33:34,125 --> 01:33:38,025
the location of the proposed use is zoned a one agricultural

1113
01:33:38,825 --> 01:33:42,305
general, as is most of the larger parcel in much of the surrounding area.

1114
01:33:43,335 --> 01:33:47,065
located in pink are b one business general zoning districts and located

1115
01:33:47,385 --> 01:33:51,185
in purple are industrial zoning districts. These industrial zoning

1116
01:33:51,745 --> 01:33:55,465
districts correspond to the midpoint industrial park. The dark green

1117
01:33:55,925 --> 01:33:58,185
are rr rural residential zoning districts.

1118
01:34:00,425 --> 01:34:04,385
the comprehensive plan designates the area of the proposed use, which again is

1119
01:34:04,605 --> 01:34:08,605
the western portion of the property. Um, as rural enhancement

1120
01:34:09,195 --> 01:34:13,075
area go, the commercial, industrial and county

1121
01:34:13,585 --> 01:34:17,255
state institutional parcels collectively comprise the haydenville

1122
01:34:18,065 --> 01:34:21,495
crossroads, which is one of the county's rural crossroads. Rural crossroads

1123
01:34:22,095 --> 01:34:26,015
provide necessary goods and services to the surrounding community, but are not meant to accommodate

1124
01:34:26,615 --> 01:34:30,415
significant new growth as encouraged in other villages. To clarify,

1125
01:34:31,075 --> 01:34:33,135
the proposed use lies outside of this area.

1126
01:34:38,435 --> 01:34:42,415
the property is currently owned by lux stone corporation, a portion of which is being leased

1127
01:34:42,695 --> 01:34:46,635
to the applicant, virginia sports park and training center. The area of the proposed use is

1128
01:34:46,855 --> 01:34:49,255
lovely, is roughly outlined in the picture.

1129
01:34:51,195 --> 01:34:54,865
the property is on the gland county louisa line, which

1130
01:34:55,355 --> 01:34:58,075
is approximately right along here.

1131
01:35:01,665 --> 01:35:05,555
lock stone owns the north portion of the property in louisa, which is approximately 250

1132
01:35:06,155 --> 01:35:08,435
acres in size. It is not part of this application.

1133
01:35:10,705 --> 01:35:13,115
located right next to the property is also interstate 64.

1134
01:35:15,225 --> 01:35:19,105
located right here, there

1135
01:35:19,455 --> 01:35:22,585
is a cell tower permitted under cu 19 99 3

1136
01:35:24,135 --> 01:35:27,785
located on the larger of the three parcels just out of frame and therefore

1137
01:35:28,765 --> 01:35:32,745
not in the area of the proposed use. Otherwise, the property

1138
01:35:32,885 --> 01:35:36,825
is vacant. The property appears to have been logged in the recent

1139
01:35:36,985 --> 01:35:39,535
past. A logging road can generally be seen here.

1140
01:35:46,275 --> 01:35:50,085
located on the property is deep creek, which flows into the south ana river, which is a tributary

1141
01:35:50,585 --> 01:35:54,505
of the york river. The red highlight area is the fema

1142
01:35:54,795 --> 01:35:58,725
100 year flood hazard area. Limited structures are permitted in

1143
01:35:58,845 --> 01:36:02,075
this area. I don't see any red on my screen.

1144
01:36:03,055 --> 01:36:06,215
it is very faint. Um, thank you. Yes,

1145
01:36:10,245 --> 01:36:13,745
as indicated by the us fish and wildlife service, as well as the by the applicant,

1146
01:36:14,395 --> 01:36:17,925
there may be wetlands on the property largely around the branch of

1147
01:36:18,895 --> 01:36:19,185
this creek.

1148
01:36:24,045 --> 01:36:27,745
in 1997, lux stone was approved for a quarry on the main parcel of the

1149
01:36:28,105 --> 01:36:31,985
property. The extraction area would be located on the other side of deep creek from

1150
01:36:32,265 --> 01:36:36,085
the proposed use. The sole permitted access point for the quarry is

1151
01:36:36,345 --> 01:36:39,825
old for fredericksburg road. One of the over overburdened

1152
01:36:40,625 --> 01:36:44,265
placement locations would be located where the applicant's proposed use would be.

1153
01:36:45,575 --> 01:36:49,415
lux stone indicated that they have no current plans to begin operations on

1154
01:36:49,635 --> 01:36:53,505
the site. Staff would like to especially point out that lux stone is

1155
01:36:53,725 --> 01:36:57,175
permitted to blast on the property from the hours of 9:30 am to 3:30 pm

1156
01:36:58,625 --> 01:37:02,495
monday through friday. Lux stone does not have a quarry permit

1157
01:37:03,075 --> 01:37:04,495
for their property in louisa county.

1158
01:37:07,725 --> 01:37:11,475
staff would also like to point out that as an approved use, lux stone could submit

1159
01:37:11,755 --> 01:37:15,485
plans to the county at any time. These plans, these plan reviews would

1160
01:37:15,765 --> 01:37:19,445
be administrative, meaning that as long as lux stone shows compliance with the county's

1161
01:37:19,845 --> 01:37:22,365
laws, the county would be obligated to approve the plans.

1162
01:37:27,485 --> 01:37:28,725
I'm so sorry. Um,

1163
01:37:32,735 --> 01:37:36,665
this is a, a site plan that was provided by lux stone, um, associated with

1164
01:37:36,825 --> 01:37:37,565
their poor permit.

1165
01:37:56,405 --> 01:38:00,345
all right, ben, while you're there. Uh, so the red line that I see, that's the county b

1166
01:38:00,465 --> 01:38:03,635
border, the county line before it was delineated,

1167
01:38:04,605 --> 01:38:08,225
um, uh, with louis, we, um, a couple years ago,

1168
01:38:08,705 --> 01:38:12,445
uh, delineated, uh, more precisely the county line between louisa and guch line.

1169
01:38:13,155 --> 01:38:17,105
okay. That's what I mean. Yeah, it's the, that's the gland, louisa county line and

1170
01:38:17,465 --> 01:38:21,305
the colored areas to the south of that are all, uh,

1171
01:38:21,665 --> 01:38:25,375
the gland mining activities that have been approved. Yes, sir. Thank

1172
01:38:25,725 --> 01:38:25,725
you.

1173
01:38:32,635 --> 01:38:36,415
the applicant's proposing a sporting clays course, which will also have s***t shooting

1174
01:38:36,725 --> 01:38:40,595
five stand and trap shooting. In addition to the shooting sports, the

1175
01:38:40,815 --> 01:38:44,685
applicant is proposing indoor and outdoor archery, including 3d archery.

1176
01:38:46,105 --> 01:38:49,735
there would also be a clubhouse and maintenance and accessory buildings, a rendering

1177
01:38:50,175 --> 01:38:53,935
of the clubhouse. What, uh, is shown on the right, uh, this

1178
01:38:54,255 --> 01:38:58,045
rendering, uh, is conceptual. It may or may not look

1179
01:38:58,335 --> 01:38:59,455
like this in the future.

1180
01:39:04,745 --> 01:39:08,745
s***t shooting is typically made up of eight different shooting positions oriented in the same direction.

1181
01:39:09,165 --> 01:39:12,385
in an arc where the targets are thrown from the high house on the left

1182
01:39:14,995 --> 01:39:16,415
and a low house on the right

1183
01:39:19,905 --> 01:39:23,195
targets can be shot as singles or as pairs in a predetermined order.

1184
01:39:26,975 --> 01:39:30,245
five stand consists of five lined up stations in which the sh

1185
01:39:31,635 --> 01:39:35,225
which have targets thrown, placed, which have target throwers placed

1186
01:39:35,745 --> 01:39:36,985
randomly out in front of the shooters.

1187
01:39:42,725 --> 01:39:46,615
trap shooting consists of a trap house in the middle of the field from where the

1188
01:39:46,815 --> 01:39:50,815
targets are launched. Can I ask a quick question? Yes, sir. So

1189
01:39:51,175 --> 01:39:55,155
as you've depicted it here, this shooting is from ground level. Is that,

1190
01:39:55,695 --> 01:39:59,395
is that accurate or are the yes, some shooters sometimes elevated.

1191
01:40:00,495 --> 01:40:04,485
um, for the uses I have shown you so far,

1192
01:40:04,785 --> 01:40:06,485
yes. They're typically at ground level. Thank you.

1193
01:40:11,485 --> 01:40:15,435
stations for multiple shooters are found in an arc behind the trap house. W trap

1194
01:40:15,795 --> 01:40:18,725
adds variation to the launch angle and direction to increase difficulty.

1195
01:40:22,945 --> 01:40:25,965
the bulk of the property would comprise of a sporting clays course.

1196
01:40:26,985 --> 01:40:30,605
unlike the, unlike other shotgun sports, sporting clays are not thrown from

1197
01:40:31,085 --> 01:40:34,975
standardized positions. This is meant to mimic the spontaneity of animals in the

1198
01:40:35,095 --> 01:40:38,685
wild. It is usually comprised of multiple stations, each

1199
01:40:39,215 --> 01:40:43,105
throwing at a different angle and direction that take advantage

1200
01:40:43,485 --> 01:40:47,145
of the natural features of the land. As such, it can be likened

1201
01:40:47,505 --> 01:40:51,305
to a golf course. And, uh, mr. Kimberly to follow on your question,

1202
01:40:51,725 --> 01:40:55,725
um, thank you. From personal experience, you, and as you can see in the illustration, I do see, I do

1203
01:40:55,805 --> 01:40:57,305
see them here. They can be elevated. Yes.

1204
01:41:04,625 --> 01:41:08,425
before you is page one of the applicant's conceptual plan, the general area of

1205
01:41:08,645 --> 01:41:12,435
the sporting clay course and other shotgun stations is found here.

1206
01:41:14,635 --> 01:41:18,115
can I ask another question? I'm sorry to interrupt you, but, uh, go ahead. Uh, the

1207
01:41:18,855 --> 01:41:22,695
boundary shown here on the western part is different than

1208
01:41:22,935 --> 01:41:26,515
what was shown in the, some of the previous, uh, charts.

1209
01:41:27,395 --> 01:41:31,255
the, it, it shows a, a necking down in a, in a, in a,

1210
01:41:31,835 --> 01:41:34,735
in a curve back up to, to the north,

1211
01:41:36,195 --> 01:41:39,975
which is the true, um, boundary of their lease area.

1212
01:41:40,965 --> 01:41:44,945
is this it or is what? It was several charts back.

1213
01:41:45,325 --> 01:41:48,955
um, if you're referencing the area shown where

1214
01:41:49,405 --> 01:41:53,405
the, I had the fema fema of 100 year foot hazard area. That's approximation by

1215
01:41:53,625 --> 01:41:57,585
staff just to demonstrate the, um, hydrological features of

1216
01:41:57,745 --> 01:42:01,535
the property. So this is, uh, the, with the, this

1217
01:42:01,825 --> 01:42:05,785
is what the applicant has submitted, um, to demonstrate where their

1218
01:42:06,045 --> 01:42:08,585
use will be occurring. Okay, thanks.

1219
01:42:15,375 --> 01:42:18,955
the area for the clubhouse archery and parking is found in this corner.

1220
01:42:20,315 --> 01:42:24,305
walton road is right here. The applicant is

1221
01:42:24,425 --> 01:42:27,505
showing five stand s***t and trap shooting right here

1222
01:42:30,285 --> 01:42:33,675
along the north and south edges of the property are the sporting clay stations

1223
01:42:35,335 --> 01:42:37,015
here and here

1224
01:42:39,405 --> 01:42:42,735
and those are the elevated. They could be. They could be. Okay.

1225
01:42:50,045 --> 01:42:53,155
the stripe coloring shows the potential range of up to 100 yards.

1226
01:42:56,275 --> 01:42:59,875
they would be accessed by an internal access road shown along here.

1227
01:43:07,825 --> 01:43:11,695
vegetative buffers are shown along the edge of the property boundaries. That's the

1228
01:43:11,945 --> 01:43:12,695
green along the edge,

1229
01:43:17,495 --> 01:43:21,165
along the northern property line shown in the hatch pattern are proposed berms

1230
01:43:23,335 --> 01:43:27,055
located here, located here, and located here.

1231
01:43:29,755 --> 01:43:33,705
there are only shown on the northern property line where, where there is

1232
01:43:33,905 --> 01:43:37,825
limited existing vegetation. There would also be gaps in the berms to allow

1233
01:43:38,025 --> 01:43:41,505
for drainage. Uh, currently proposed here and here.

1234
01:43:45,015 --> 01:43:48,875
the light green in the middle of the property is the engineer's preliminary analysis of wetlands.

1235
01:43:56,385 --> 01:43:59,795
this page of the concept plan shows the first phase of the entrance area,

1236
01:44:01,015 --> 01:44:04,795
uh, shown are the vegetative buffers, uh,

1237
01:44:05,175 --> 01:44:08,935
a gravel parking lot, well area, a septic

1238
01:44:09,215 --> 01:44:12,795
drain field, storm water basin, um, access

1239
01:44:13,285 --> 01:44:16,905
road, as well as, uh, a temporary

1240
01:44:17,585 --> 01:44:19,535
temporary trailer and temporary toilets.

1241
01:44:23,945 --> 01:44:27,835
this page shows what the area would look like fully developed. Uh, we have

1242
01:44:27,955 --> 01:44:31,715
a more developed parking area. Uh, the vegetative buffers are remaining.

1243
01:44:32,245 --> 01:44:36,005
storm water basin remains. The main building clubhouse

1244
01:44:36,615 --> 01:44:40,535
area would be there. Indoor archery, outdoor archery, I

1245
01:44:40,655 --> 01:44:41,895
believe this is a maintenance building.

1246
01:44:50,295 --> 01:44:53,995
the applicant has requested permission to operate unrestricted from 8:00 am to

1247
01:44:54,385 --> 01:44:58,035
dusk seven days a week. The a staff has proposed

1248
01:44:58,435 --> 01:45:02,415
limiting the discharging of firearms between the hours of 9:00 am to

1249
01:45:02,635 --> 01:45:06,375
sunset monday through saturday. Staff propose these changes

1250
01:45:06,755 --> 01:45:10,715
for a few reasons. First sunset is a defined specific period of

1251
01:45:10,935 --> 01:45:14,855
the day. Dusk is a period of time. Additionally, in

1252
01:45:15,315 --> 01:45:19,195
response to community concerns about noise, staff has proposed limiting shooting

1253
01:45:19,715 --> 01:45:23,385
entirely on sunday. The applicant indicates that they expect 20

1254
01:45:23,765 --> 01:45:25,335
to 25 guests on a given weekday,

1255
01:45:27,775 --> 01:45:31,165
40 to 70 guests on a weekend, and 85 to 125

1256
01:45:32,145 --> 01:45:35,485
guests for events. The applicant's also

1257
01:45:36,285 --> 01:45:39,965
indicate that they will eventually be three to four full-time employees

1258
01:45:40,385 --> 01:45:43,125
on the property in addition to several part-time employees.

1259
01:45:48,655 --> 01:45:52,305
as part of business operations, the applicant will also host tournaments and events related

1260
01:45:52,795 --> 01:45:56,475
to the shooting course. The applicant has asked for no restrictions for tournaments

1261
01:45:56,915 --> 01:46:00,595
and events. Staff has proposed a limitation of 12 tournaments per year.

1262
01:46:01,135 --> 01:46:04,475
events could include fundraising, corporate, or educational events.

1263
01:46:09,655 --> 01:46:13,585
the image on the right was produced by staff to illustrate, illustrate what a 300 yard

1264
01:46:13,985 --> 01:46:17,925
shot fall zone would be at each proposed station. Documents from these

1265
01:46:18,405 --> 01:46:22,045
national ski shooting association and the boy scouts of america require a 300

1266
01:46:22,515 --> 01:46:25,445
yard shot fall zone. As a part of course, design for safety,

1267
01:46:26,685 --> 01:46:30,455
this is to ensure that the shot has enough room to safely land without injuring

1268
01:46:30,935 --> 01:46:34,895
any persons or property. Alright, just to be clear,

1269
01:46:35,195 --> 01:46:39,135
can you back up, please? It looks to me, do I understand this correctly, that

1270
01:46:39,335 --> 01:46:42,835
there are two, uh, well, certainly one that has overlap, um,

1271
01:46:44,275 --> 01:46:46,275
and the one next to it almost,

1272
01:46:48,455 --> 01:46:51,925
do you, do you see what I'm talking about? Um, can you point to them please? Potentially

1273
01:46:52,485 --> 01:46:56,345
that one right there. Well, the next one over to the left, it has, it

1274
01:46:56,565 --> 01:46:59,435
looks like it is under the 300 yard,

1275
01:47:01,625 --> 01:47:05,225
um, arc of, of

1276
01:47:06,025 --> 01:47:09,855
one of the other shooting stations. I'm guessing that's one of the, uh, stationary

1277
01:47:11,325 --> 01:47:15,305
stations. Uh, yes. Staff. And, and the, uh, the one to

1278
01:47:15,525 --> 01:47:19,465
the, just to the east of that is also very close to the arc

1279
01:47:19,685 --> 01:47:22,445
of, I believe the other stationary shooting position.

1280
01:47:24,225 --> 01:47:28,005
uh, is that, do I read that correctly? Yes. Okay. Uh,

1281
01:47:28,395 --> 01:47:32,375
this was generated by staff using cad software, I believe, um, based

1282
01:47:32,725 --> 01:47:36,615
on the conceptual plan submitted by the applicant on the right. Okay, thank

1283
01:47:36,965 --> 01:47:40,875
you. Um, it is to the best of staff's ability. Alright.

1284
01:47:51,945 --> 01:47:55,795
the site of the shooting course is located largely to the west of deep creek with

1285
01:47:56,085 --> 01:47:59,895
the side stream running through the middle of the 85 acres, forming a quasi

1286
01:48:00,245 --> 01:48:04,065
basin. It is along these side streams where there are

1287
01:48:04,305 --> 01:48:08,145
is the greatest potential for wetlands. The stations would be along,

1288
01:48:08,635 --> 01:48:12,585
would be along the edge of the property, along higher elevation and fire towards the center of

1289
01:48:12,785 --> 01:48:16,755
the property. Shotgun ammunition. The shot is often made of lead.

1290
01:48:17,265 --> 01:48:20,555
lead can be harmful to humans and other animals and cause negative health effects.

1291
01:48:21,465 --> 01:48:25,255
lead is naturally occurring and it may move from the soil to

1292
01:48:25,595 --> 01:48:29,555
groundwater depending on the type of lead compound and the characteristics of the soil.

1293
01:48:31,775 --> 01:48:35,435
the ammunition produced, which is not made of lead. Excuse me. There is ammunition

1294
01:48:36,275 --> 01:48:40,155
produced, which is not made of lead. This is often used for waterfowl hunting as lead

1295
01:48:40,315 --> 01:48:43,645
has been banned from the use in waterfowl hunting nationwide since

1296
01:48:44,555 --> 01:48:48,115
1991 due to concerns about lead entering the ecosystem

1297
01:48:48,695 --> 01:48:52,355
and food chain. Alternate shot types include

1298
01:48:52,885 --> 01:48:56,635
steel, bismuth, tin and tungsten, as well as others, including combinations

1299
01:48:57,315 --> 01:49:01,275
of different metals. The applicant states that they will develop and adhere to an environmental

1300
01:49:01,795 --> 01:49:05,795
stewardship plan or esp and esp is a long-term management

1301
01:49:06,315 --> 01:49:09,805
plan to conserve natural resources. Staff

1302
01:49:10,555 --> 01:49:14,075
proposed a condition requiring esp be submitted before plan of development

1303
01:49:14,835 --> 01:49:14,835
approval.

1304
01:49:19,025 --> 01:49:22,985
noises among the greatest impacts of this proposal. As stated, the applicant is

1305
01:49:23,205 --> 01:49:27,135
proposing earth and berms on the northern property line and 50 feet vegetative

1306
01:49:27,805 --> 01:49:31,655
buffers around the property as a mitigation effort. I will discuss noise

1307
01:49:32,005 --> 01:49:33,095
further in a later slide.

1308
01:49:36,175 --> 01:49:39,845
lighting has also been a concern among the community. The county's zoning code

1309
01:49:40,445 --> 01:49:44,245
regulates all outdoor lighting for commercial developments. All commercial outdoor

1310
01:49:44,885 --> 01:49:48,815
lighting in the county is required to be dark sky compliant. All outdoor

1311
01:49:49,375 --> 01:49:52,495
lighting for the proposal would be subject to these zoning code provisions.

1312
01:49:55,025 --> 01:49:58,845
internal access roads will at a minimum need to be constructed to

1313
01:49:59,065 --> 01:50:02,705
provide access to golf carts or other four vehicle all terrain vehicles

1314
01:50:05,575 --> 01:50:09,495
in order to provide public safety to in response, um, in

1315
01:50:09,715 --> 01:50:13,705
order to provide public safety to respond in case of an emergency. This

1316
01:50:13,995 --> 01:50:17,835
would be typical for this type of development as many sporting clay courses operate with golf

1317
01:50:18,005 --> 01:50:19,515
carts or other cle similar vehicles.

1318
01:50:38,865 --> 01:50:42,275
the applicant held a community meeting on october 30th in this room, approximately

1319
01:50:43,285 --> 01:50:47,085
170 citizens attended. The applicant explained the proposal

1320
01:50:48,865 --> 01:50:52,835
and discussion included traffic improvements on walton road, operating

1321
01:50:53,445 --> 01:50:57,365
hours, location on the property, lighting impact on property

1322
01:50:57,485 --> 01:51:01,345
values, sound and noise, impact of lead safety, and

1323
01:51:01,565 --> 01:51:05,205
the notification of red residence. Comment

1324
01:51:05,785 --> 01:51:09,735
cards indicate 12 people in support nine were neutral and 12 were

1325
01:51:09,975 --> 01:51:13,975
in opposition at that meeting. An undetermined number of others verbally

1326
01:51:14,175 --> 01:51:16,695
expressed either opposition or support at the meeting.

1327
01:51:20,355 --> 01:51:24,175
in response to outstanding community concerns, the applicant held a second community

1328
01:51:24,575 --> 01:51:28,455
meeting on december 9th at 50 61 broad street

1329
01:51:28,725 --> 01:51:32,655
road attendee. There are approximately 54 citizens in

1330
01:51:32,815 --> 01:51:36,405
attendance. The applicant explained their proposal and discussed

1331
01:51:36,845 --> 01:51:40,165
noise reduction strategies, impact of lead light pollution,

1332
01:51:40,955 --> 01:51:43,205
traffic concerns, and property values.

1333
01:51:47,235 --> 01:51:51,075
questions and comment from the public include included traffic, the organization's

1334
01:51:51,795 --> 01:51:55,475
5 0 1 c3 status, the availability, availability of the

1335
01:51:55,915 --> 01:51:59,835
facility to school aged youth operating hours, especially in regard

1336
01:52:00,155 --> 01:52:03,965
to neighbors working night shifts, noise and sound,

1337
01:52:04,705 --> 01:52:08,525
the add of the application submittal, public availability

1338
01:52:09,185 --> 01:52:12,455
of the documents, noise studies, alternative sites,

1339
01:52:13,325 --> 01:52:16,645
a decommissioning plan, coordination with louisa county,

1340
01:52:17,615 --> 01:52:21,605
gland county noise ordinance, litter on the roadway, the selling of

1341
01:52:21,825 --> 01:52:25,795
concessions impact on, uh, businesses, direction

1342
01:52:26,405 --> 01:52:30,405
of traffic, proximity to neighbors, comparisons between other shooting

1343
01:52:30,535 --> 01:52:34,285
sites and the proposed site, the applicant's commitment to noise

1344
01:52:34,565 --> 01:52:38,255
testing and the number of tournaments most

1345
01:52:38,905 --> 01:52:40,425
citizens express concern with the proposal.

1346
01:52:49,775 --> 01:52:53,755
the county's 2035 comprehensive plan establishes a framework for growth and development.

1347
01:52:55,495 --> 01:52:58,235
the property is located in one of the county's rural enhancement areas.

1348
01:52:59,845 --> 01:53:03,795
rural enhancement areas include most of the county not already included in a designated growth

1349
01:53:04,145 --> 01:53:08,075
area or major village. Rural enhancement areas exhibit a rural character

1350
01:53:08,515 --> 01:53:12,395
with low density residential agricultural forest, or other uses which

1351
01:53:12,635 --> 01:53:16,145
are not planned for public or central utilities. Residential

1352
01:53:16,945 --> 01:53:20,535
uses should include a significant amount of open space, limit the amount

1353
01:53:20,975 --> 01:53:24,635
of grading in native plant removal, and create minimal

1354
01:53:25,495 --> 01:53:29,225
visual and other impacts the areas of the county play.

1355
01:53:29,925 --> 01:53:33,835
these areas of the county play a significant role in the rural character of the

1356
01:53:33,995 --> 01:53:35,955
community and should be protected from urban sprawl.

1357
01:53:40,265 --> 01:53:44,095
staff has to determined that this, that this use could be appropriate

1358
01:53:44,515 --> 01:53:48,475
for the rural enhancement areas. This, these proposed use

1359
01:53:48,745 --> 01:53:50,965
would be in compliance with the comprehensive plan

1360
01:53:52,955 --> 01:53:56,905
staff states, sorry. However, staff does not have enough information to

1361
01:53:57,105 --> 01:54:01,065
fully determine whether the proposed use sufficiently mitigates its impacts on

1362
01:54:01,225 --> 01:54:01,825
the neighboring properties.

1363
01:54:06,565 --> 01:54:10,345
it should be noted that the 2035 conference of plan includes many

1364
01:54:10,945 --> 01:54:14,825
policies used as strategies for implementation. Two of these are found below

1365
01:54:17,425 --> 01:54:21,265
policy to protect residential areas from incompatible uses and

1366
01:54:21,645 --> 01:54:25,035
a policy to ensure compatibility with neighboring uses involving

1367
01:54:25,815 --> 01:54:27,645
noise screening and lighting.

1368
01:54:43,725 --> 01:54:47,505
at this time, a number of outstanding concerns remain. I will address

1369
01:54:47,745 --> 01:54:49,205
these individually on the falling slides.

1370
01:54:53,495 --> 01:54:57,495
the public has expressed concern with lead discharge on the site. The

1371
01:54:57,915 --> 01:55:01,635
proposed use entails lead shot, which could affect wetlands and floodplain on the

1372
01:55:01,955 --> 01:55:05,855
property and impact water quality of runoff leaving the property as

1373
01:55:06,075 --> 01:55:10,035
well as filtering down to the aqui fire. Staff is unable to

1374
01:55:10,195 --> 01:55:13,525
comment on the appropriate mitigation matters as the applicant has not provided supplement

1375
01:55:14,665 --> 01:55:18,315
information or a finalized environmental stewardship plan for review.

1376
01:55:19,805 --> 01:55:23,775
staff county staff also lacks the technical capacity to determine the

1377
01:55:24,155 --> 01:55:26,595
efficacy of the lead mitigation practices.

1378
01:55:32,555 --> 01:55:36,475
the applicant is proposing hours of operation up to seven days a week. Staff has

1379
01:55:36,895 --> 01:55:40,855
proposed more limited hours within the conditions to help mitigate potential impacts of

1380
01:55:41,085 --> 01:55:45,005
near continuous operations on neighboring properties. At this

1381
01:55:45,165 --> 01:55:48,895
time, the applicant has not agreed to these limits. The applicant has

1382
01:55:49,335 --> 01:55:53,335
specifically ob objected to not being able to shoot on sundays as they believe

1383
01:55:53,575 --> 01:55:57,465
it'll be detrimental to their business operations. Staff is open to

1384
01:55:57,685 --> 01:56:01,085
alternative hours of operation for the gun range, but we do not think that

1385
01:56:01,775 --> 01:56:05,765
seven days a week is appropriate. In

1386
01:56:06,185 --> 01:56:09,945
response, the applicant has indicated that they could close the course to the public on mondays.

1387
01:56:10,835 --> 01:56:14,545
staff does not consider this to be any different than to being open to the public

1388
01:56:16,675 --> 01:56:16,675
staff

1389
01:56:22,485 --> 01:56:26,365
at at the time that that staff had finalized our staff report. The

1390
01:56:26,585 --> 01:56:30,285
applicant had not submitted a noise impact study. The

1391
01:56:30,605 --> 01:56:34,505
impact of nuisance noise on nearby residential properties has been

1392
01:56:34,745 --> 01:56:38,455
a primary concern raised at community meetings. Staff

1393
01:56:38,865 --> 01:56:42,765
was provided with a sound study yesterday at noon. Having received

1394
01:56:43,045 --> 01:56:46,965
this sound study with such short notice, staff is not able to assess the potential impacts

1395
01:56:47,625 --> 01:56:51,205
of noise on neighboring properties. Additionally,

1396
01:56:51,825 --> 01:56:55,725
on june 12th, oh, sorry, july, I am so sorry. On january 12th,

1397
01:56:57,225 --> 01:57:00,845
the applicant did perform an onsite demonstration. In attendance were

1398
01:57:01,325 --> 01:57:05,125
supervisors, lyle boers, spoon, hower, and christie, as well as commissioners

1399
01:57:05,925 --> 01:57:06,645
kimberly and dean.

1400
01:57:11,225 --> 01:57:15,195
some community members have had questions regarding the goland county noise ordinance.

1401
01:57:15,795 --> 01:57:19,675
I would like to remind the planning commission that the goland county noise ordinance does

1402
01:57:19,955 --> 01:57:23,875
not apply to commercial or business activity and does not apply to

1403
01:57:24,035 --> 01:57:27,865
firearms. Any regulation of the sound or noise from

1404
01:57:28,155 --> 01:57:31,515
this application must be done as part of the conditions if approved.

1405
01:57:35,785 --> 01:57:39,555
this slide shows page two of the concept plan. The yellow circle shows a,

1406
01:57:39,895 --> 01:57:43,395
within the yellow circle show, there is a temporary trailer and portable

1407
01:57:43,955 --> 01:57:46,105
toilets which are non-compliant with the county code.

1408
01:57:52,275 --> 01:57:55,475
the applicant's in the applicant's initial lease with lux stone was for

1409
01:57:56,285 --> 01:57:59,975
only 75 acres of the property. However, the concept plan submitted showed

1410
01:58:00,315 --> 01:58:04,015
85 acres. As such, staff had concerns about the planning commission

1411
01:58:04,415 --> 01:58:08,095
and the board of supervisors acting on an application in which the applicant

1412
01:58:08,675 --> 01:58:12,375
may not have had the proper legal authority. The county

1413
01:58:12,935 --> 01:58:16,885
received a revised lease agreement in an amended application yesterday. Unfortunately,

1414
01:58:17,795 --> 01:58:21,565
the revised boundaries of the lease shown on the screen to the right does

1415
01:58:22,015 --> 01:58:25,335
not appear to comprise the whole of the proposed shooting facility.

1416
01:58:26,345 --> 01:58:29,865
the apparent discrepancy is shown in the dashed red

1417
01:58:30,435 --> 01:58:34,235
outline. However, all improvements on the conceptual

1418
01:58:34,865 --> 01:58:37,315
plan can be built on the leased premises.

1419
01:58:39,195 --> 01:58:41,445
as such, this concern remains outstanding.

1420
01:58:46,425 --> 01:58:50,165
the applicant is proposing to hold tournaments and special events on the property.

1421
01:58:51,365 --> 01:58:54,845
although specific information regarding the frequency scale and other activities

1422
01:58:55,425 --> 01:58:59,345
has not been provided. Staff has proposed a condition to limit the number of tournaments

1423
01:58:59,705 --> 01:59:02,465
to 12 per year. Given the incomplete information.

1424
01:59:06,085 --> 01:59:10,015
staff has proposed 19 conditions for this use, I will read them in

1425
01:59:10,235 --> 01:59:10,355
a moment.

1426
01:59:25,525 --> 01:59:29,445
number one, use a s***t shooting range including a sporting clays course or

1427
01:59:29,665 --> 01:59:33,325
other similar ranges or courses including but not limited to indoor

1428
01:59:33,745 --> 01:59:37,565
and outdoor archery and uses such as concessions in the sale of ammunition may

1429
01:59:37,785 --> 01:59:41,345
be operated on the property. This is cup activity

1430
01:59:42,335 --> 01:59:46,005
subject to these conditions. Number two, required approvals.

1431
01:59:46,825 --> 01:59:50,765
the cup activity is not permitted to begun begin until a plan

1432
01:59:50,965 --> 01:59:54,685
of development pod is approved. The applicant has installed

1433
01:59:54,985 --> 01:59:58,785
all pod improvements and the pod improvements have been approved by the county and

1434
01:59:59,005 --> 02:00:02,905
the applicant has obtained any other approvals that may be required by

1435
02:00:03,125 --> 02:00:07,065
any other departments such as a building inspection, certificate of occupancy, or

1436
02:00:07,325 --> 02:00:10,595
a health department approval, as well as any state and federal permits

1437
02:00:13,865 --> 02:00:17,715
phasing the applicant must provide a phasing plan at the time of plan

1438
02:00:17,995 --> 02:00:21,795
of development. The cup activity may be designed and built

1439
02:00:22,095 --> 02:00:26,035
in phases, provided that the first phase includes the installation of a

1440
02:00:26,355 --> 02:00:30,035
permanent structure and an approved well and septic system for the permitt

1441
02:00:30,515 --> 02:00:34,515
structure. The first phase must also include the required burns and buffers conditions. 13 and

1442
02:00:34,835 --> 02:00:38,655
14. Each phase must comply with all federal, state, and

1443
02:00:38,875 --> 02:00:40,595
local statutes, ordinances, and regulations.

1444
02:00:44,995 --> 02:00:48,575
number four, concept plan. The areas and improvements for cup

1445
02:00:49,135 --> 02:00:53,095
activity shall generally conform to the concept plan attached as exhibit a prepared by

1446
02:00:53,295 --> 02:00:56,975
hewitt solutions entitled haydenville shooting facility and dated november 24th, 2025.

1447
02:01:02,455 --> 02:01:06,085
staff does have a comment about this condition. The concept plan shows

1448
02:01:07,275 --> 02:01:11,205
uses that are not permitted as permit structures, portable toilets and temporary trailers.

1449
02:01:11,565 --> 02:01:15,485
however, it is necessary to condition the concept plan with this use because it

1450
02:01:15,645 --> 02:01:19,545
is the only means by which to restrict the use to the 85 acres. As

1451
02:01:19,765 --> 02:01:23,675
shown on the plan, a revised plan should be submitted that meets code

1452
02:01:23,965 --> 02:01:27,125
requirements and shows the boundaries within the leasing area with buck stone.

1453
02:01:31,125 --> 02:01:35,105
number five shot fall zone. Each shooting station shall have a shot fall zone

1454
02:01:35,345 --> 02:01:39,250
of least 300 yards down range extended in all shooting. That

1455
02:01:39,450 --> 02:01:43,305
will be located entirely within the cup activity area. No

1456
02:01:43,525 --> 02:01:46,955
discharge or shot is allowed to land outside of the cup activity area.

1457
02:01:47,745 --> 02:01:51,485
number six, firearms only shotguns may be discharged on the

1458
02:01:51,805 --> 02:01:54,885
property. Shotguns must be 12 gauge or smaller and board diameter.

1459
02:01:58,045 --> 02:02:01,945
number seven, shotgun ammunition. No shot size larger

1460
02:02:02,305 --> 02:02:06,265
than seven and a half is allowed. All ammunition sold on site must be

1461
02:02:06,465 --> 02:02:10,405
used on site number eight hours of operation. Firearms

1462
02:02:10,985 --> 02:02:14,925
may only be discharged between 9:00 am and sunset monday through saturday.

1463
02:02:15,785 --> 02:02:18,795
no firearms may be discharged on sundays.

1464
02:02:22,225 --> 02:02:26,105
number nine, parking a minimum of 17 parking spaces or more if

1465
02:02:26,565 --> 02:02:30,265
required by the pod serving. The cup activity area shall be provided and

1466
02:02:30,725 --> 02:02:34,705
maintained. If the applicant is

1467
02:02:35,025 --> 02:02:38,905
pursuing a phase development and plans to host tournaments and events pursuant to

1468
02:02:39,065 --> 02:02:42,905
condition 15 b, then an overflow parking area is required

1469
02:02:43,565 --> 02:02:47,405
and must be de designated on the pod. Parking

1470
02:02:47,955 --> 02:02:51,945
on walton road is prohibited at the request of the zoning administrator. No parking signs

1471
02:02:52,645 --> 02:02:56,565
must be installed along the road in accordance with the virginia department transportation regulations.

1472
02:02:59,785 --> 02:03:03,405
number 10, parking a paving parking waiver pursuant

1473
02:03:03,965 --> 02:03:07,885
to zoning ordinance section 15 dash 316. A waiver is granted

1474
02:03:08,265 --> 02:03:11,365
to the requirement that non handicapped parking areas must be paved.

1475
02:03:12,985 --> 02:03:16,515
non handicapped parking areas must be, may be must

1476
02:03:17,045 --> 02:03:20,415
be gravel areas for handicap parking must be paved.

1477
02:03:25,645 --> 02:03:29,625
number 11, internal access road. Internal access to

1478
02:03:29,825 --> 02:03:33,625
parking areas and facilities for cup activity will be as generally shown

1479
02:03:34,125 --> 02:03:37,465
in the in exhibit a and must be constructed and maintained in a manner

1480
02:03:38,145 --> 02:03:41,825
satisfactory to both gland fire rescue and the go and the county.

1481
02:03:42,725 --> 02:03:45,945
the development, sorry, the department of community development

1482
02:03:48,145 --> 02:03:52,045
number 12. Environment stewardship plan. An environmental stewardship

1483
02:03:52,485 --> 02:03:56,465
plan must be submitted to the department of planning and zoning before approval of

1484
02:03:56,725 --> 02:04:00,605
a plan of development. The environmental stewardship plan must describe how the

1485
02:04:00,765 --> 02:04:03,475
applicant will implement best management practices on site.

1486
02:04:06,485 --> 02:04:10,465
number 13, berms a series of vegetated earth

1487
02:04:10,815 --> 02:04:14,695
and berms. A minimum of eight feet and height must be provided and maintained in the areas

1488
02:04:14,955 --> 02:04:18,875
as shown on the concept plan. The minimum of eight feet of height is

1489
02:04:19,335 --> 02:04:22,995
measured to the top of the burn earth and burn prior to the planting above the

1490
02:04:23,415 --> 02:04:27,245
location of the shooting stations. The burn must be planted with multi

1491
02:04:27,715 --> 02:04:30,965
rows of staggered evergreen trees planted six feet on center.

1492
02:04:31,785 --> 02:04:35,685
if any of the trees referred to in this condition should die, be cut or be destroyed, it

1493
02:04:35,885 --> 02:04:37,725
must be replaced in 120 days.

1494
02:04:40,085 --> 02:04:44,045
number 14, buffers. A vegetative buffer of a minimum of

1495
02:04:44,265 --> 02:04:48,085
50 feet must be preserved around the perimeter as shown on

1496
02:04:48,305 --> 02:04:51,695
the concept plan where no vegetation is present. 50 feet

1497
02:04:52,415 --> 02:04:56,065
wide, multi rows of evergreen trees must be planted and maintained.

1498
02:04:56,835 --> 02:05:00,425
these evergreen trees must be a minimum of six feet and height at the time of planting

1499
02:05:00,925 --> 02:05:04,925
and must be planted six feet on center. If any

1500
02:05:05,085 --> 02:05:09,085
of these trees referred in this condition should die, be destroyed, or be cut, it must

1501
02:05:09,245 --> 02:05:13,045
be replaced in 120 days. Number

1502
02:05:13,465 --> 02:05:15,905
15, tournaments, fundraising, corporate and other events.

1503
02:05:17,475 --> 02:05:21,385
15 a tournaments and events as part of the cup activity are

1504
02:05:21,605 --> 02:05:25,515
permitted on the property. 15 b, the number of tournaments

1505
02:05:25,955 --> 02:05:29,105
may not exceed more than 12 in a calendar year.

1506
02:05:31,275 --> 02:05:34,975
15 c for any event or tournament where

1507
02:05:35,325 --> 02:05:39,285
the number of attendees exceed the maximum capacity of the site as determined

1508
02:05:39,825 --> 02:05:43,565
during pod review, the organizer must provide an event plan a minimum

1509
02:05:43,905 --> 02:05:47,445
of 60 days before the event date to the zoning administrator.

1510
02:05:48,395 --> 02:05:52,155
furthermore, to ensure that the plan meets local state regulations, that plan must

1511
02:05:52,445 --> 02:05:56,075
include at minimum a site plan, details on fire

1512
02:05:56,615 --> 02:06:00,425
protection and equipment, what type of security will be present for onsite

1513
02:06:00,905 --> 02:06:04,805
for the event, a list of temporary structures that will be used for the event,

1514
02:06:05,355 --> 02:06:09,205
what type of food services will be used, and where the temporary bathrooms and

1515
02:06:09,365 --> 02:06:13,325
hand washing stations will be located, where parking will be located

1516
02:06:13,605 --> 02:06:17,025
and how traffic will be managed. The zoning administrator

1517
02:06:17,975 --> 02:06:21,585
will route the plan to fire rescue sheriff building inspections,

1518
02:06:22,345 --> 02:06:26,305
virginia department of health, and the virginia department of transportation for approval. An event must

1519
02:06:26,585 --> 02:06:30,225
be canceled if not approved by all departments at least two weeks in advance

1520
02:06:30,685 --> 02:06:32,865
of the date of the event.

1521
02:06:36,735 --> 02:06:40,645
15 d alternatively to 15 c, the property may

1522
02:06:40,865 --> 02:06:44,865
be de designed for the cup activity for a minimum daily

1523
02:06:45,505 --> 02:06:49,265
capacity of a minimum of 125 people. An improved

1524
02:06:49,665 --> 02:06:53,295
pod design for this capacity with all necessary improvements constructed

1525
02:06:54,405 --> 02:06:58,385
is required before any tournament or event is held. The maximum

1526
02:07:00,025 --> 02:07:03,695
capacity will be the lesser of the approved stic capacity or parking

1527
02:07:04,545 --> 02:07:08,155
capacity, but this condition does not limit any other governmental agent, department

1528
02:07:08,825 --> 02:07:11,115
or agency from requiring an occupancy limitation.

1529
02:07:14,615 --> 02:07:18,465
15 ea special event permit is required for any organized gathering

1530
02:07:18,965 --> 02:07:22,945
of 250 more or people at a given time for the

1531
02:07:23,065 --> 02:07:26,845
purposes of listening to or participating in entertainment or 250

1532
02:07:27,745 --> 02:07:31,685
more people when alcohol beverages will be permitted, possessed, or

1533
02:07:32,225 --> 02:07:34,825
consumed. Uh, this comes directly from the gland county code

1534
02:07:39,285 --> 02:07:43,175
number 16 annual notice annually, a schedule of

1535
02:07:43,475 --> 02:07:47,285
cup activity events including dates, times, and estimated attendance shall

1536
02:07:47,635 --> 02:07:51,395
be submitted to the zoning administrator and the schedule shall be

1537
02:07:51,835 --> 02:07:55,695
revised and updated monthly as events are added, removed or revised. Number

1538
02:07:56,475 --> 02:08:00,395
17, no trespassing in order to notify individuals of the property's boundaries.

1539
02:08:00,855 --> 02:08:04,565
no trespassing signs must be posted, posted, and maintained along

1540
02:08:05,375 --> 02:08:08,955
all boundaries with adjacent properties. These signs shall warn the in

1541
02:08:09,695 --> 02:08:11,475
the individual of an active shooting range.

1542
02:08:14,535 --> 02:08:18,355
number 18, compliance. All development and use of the property shall comply

1543
02:08:18,635 --> 02:08:21,435
with all federal, state and local statutes, ordinances, and regulations.

1544
02:08:22,735 --> 02:08:26,115
and number 19 is the county's standard transfer and lease language.

1545
02:08:31,505 --> 02:08:34,005
at this time, I'll be happy to answer any questions from the commission.

1546
02:08:37,025 --> 02:08:40,545
uh, ben, um, you had a, uh,

1547
02:08:41,895 --> 02:08:45,875
uh, some limitations on alcohol use when there's a a

1548
02:08:46,175 --> 02:08:49,875
an event, is there normally alcohol gonna be permitted

1549
02:08:50,495 --> 02:08:53,795
on, on a nor in normal activities in this?

1550
02:08:55,215 --> 02:08:59,115
um, I believe the applicant would like to be able to serve alcohol as a

1551
02:08:59,235 --> 02:09:02,875
part of, uh, corporate or, uh, events of the property.

1552
02:09:03,375 --> 02:09:06,655
um, alcohol

1553
02:09:07,625 --> 02:09:08,985
shooting under the influence would not be permitted.

1554
02:09:16,125 --> 02:09:16,665
how can that be?

1555
02:09:20,505 --> 02:09:23,985
ultimately, that would be up to the applicant and the property owner to regulate, um, the county,

1556
02:09:24,765 --> 02:09:27,225
you know, would enforce any violations that they were made aware of.

1557
02:09:32,225 --> 02:09:35,695
okay. Uh,

1558
02:09:36,265 --> 02:09:40,075
condition 10, if you would like to back up a little bit. I just have a quick question about

1559
02:09:40,355 --> 02:09:43,765
that one. It was about a parking, uh, uh, per surface conditions.

1560
02:09:45,295 --> 02:09:49,035
uh, you said that non handicapped parking

1561
02:09:49,985 --> 02:09:53,375
must be gravel or is that just a may be gravel. Um,

1562
02:09:54,925 --> 02:09:58,745
get there areas for handicapped parking

1563
02:09:59,295 --> 02:10:03,175
must be paved. If I misspoke, that's no non handicapped and, and it's

1564
02:10:03,465 --> 02:10:07,365
condition 10? Yes. Uh, must be gravel. I believe that's, uh, to

1565
02:10:07,585 --> 02:10:11,505
prevent, uh, just dirt parking and then something that turns into mud, but it could be,

1566
02:10:11,715 --> 02:10:15,425
could be paved as well. Um, the applicant has asked for the parking waiver.

1567
02:10:16,125 --> 02:10:20,095
um, the paving is the normal requirement for parking in the county, but the county does

1568
02:10:20,385 --> 02:10:23,685
pursuant to section 15. All right. So it must be at least gravel,

1569
02:10:24,425 --> 02:10:27,705
I guess is yes. What that means. All right.

1570
02:10:30,925 --> 02:10:30,925
um,

1571
02:10:35,185 --> 02:10:38,925
ben, just a question on seven. All ammunition sold on site must

1572
02:10:39,205 --> 02:10:43,165
be used on site. What's the thought behind that? Uh, that it does not turn into

1573
02:10:43,365 --> 02:10:47,245
a retail store. Okay. Thank you. But they will

1574
02:10:47,405 --> 02:10:51,065
permit shot, uh, uh, ammunition not sold on

1575
02:10:51,565 --> 02:10:55,165
site to be used on site, um, correct

1576
02:10:55,725 --> 02:10:59,655
that, that, that's correct. Right. You can bring your own ammunition in provided that is no

1577
02:10:59,815 --> 02:11:03,775
larger than seven and a half. And is that the only restriction that's gonna be placed on the ammunition?

1578
02:11:04,365 --> 02:11:06,575
that is the only restriction on ammunition currently proposed.

1579
02:11:10,555 --> 02:11:14,275
all right. Uh, going to condition number three, please.

1580
02:11:22,955 --> 02:11:26,855
uh, non-compliant structures.

1581
02:11:27,405 --> 02:11:31,185
does this go back to one of the, uh, concerns about

1582
02:11:31,595 --> 02:11:34,795
the portable toilets and, um, the, the,

1583
02:11:35,715 --> 02:11:38,255
uh, trailer or whatever they were proposing of having,

1584
02:11:43,265 --> 02:11:46,795
um, I'm sorry, could you repeat that question? Yeah. Um, the non-compliant

1585
02:11:47,885 --> 02:11:51,525
structures, that was one of your concerns yes. Of staff concerns?

1586
02:11:52,145 --> 02:11:53,665
yes. Um, is that, um,

1587
02:11:56,335 --> 02:12:00,205
because you're saying you want a installation of a permanent structure and

1588
02:12:00,425 --> 02:12:03,945
those are not considered, even the trailer is not considered a permanent structure. Correct.

1589
02:12:04,565 --> 02:12:07,685
um, county code requires that

1590
02:12:09,295 --> 02:12:13,035
structures that are used for occupancy are permit structures. Um,

1591
02:12:13,615 --> 02:12:17,555
a temporary trailer could be used, but only in regard, uh,

1592
02:12:17,835 --> 02:12:21,695
to ongoing construction. Uh, that is not what the applicant

1593
02:12:22,195 --> 02:12:25,835
has shown on page two of the concept plan, which is, uh,

1594
02:12:26,555 --> 02:12:28,645
the purpose of staff's comment here.

1595
02:12:31,135 --> 02:12:31,685
okay. Um,

1596
02:12:36,635 --> 02:12:40,605
uh, one more question. The access roads, um, to get to

1597
02:12:40,825 --> 02:12:44,125
these stands, um, correct me if I'm wrong, but

1598
02:12:45,645 --> 02:12:49,645
are those wide enough for a golf cart or

1599
02:12:49,865 --> 02:12:53,105
wide enough in case there's an accident that fire and rescue can get back there?

1600
02:12:54,515 --> 02:12:58,385
it'll be up, uh, exact specifications would be determined

1601
02:12:58,625 --> 02:13:02,425
at plaintiff development review, which would include the fire and rescue department as well as

1602
02:13:02,745 --> 02:13:05,505
planning and zoning. Okay. But as it's proposed,

1603
02:13:07,165 --> 02:13:11,025
is it little trails with golf

1604
02:13:11,345 --> 02:13:14,915
cart access only or is it wide enough that if there is something

1605
02:13:16,625 --> 02:13:20,475
that has happened that fire and rescue could get back, or is that still unknown until

1606
02:13:20,795 --> 02:13:24,625
plan of development? Um, the applicant has shown

1607
02:13:24,985 --> 02:13:27,915
staff, uh, examples of other, uh, tra

1608
02:13:29,265 --> 02:13:33,245
paths used in other operations, but I'll let the applicant speak more on that

1609
02:13:33,365 --> 02:13:34,085
matter. Thank you.

1610
02:13:37,525 --> 02:13:41,395
then there is, um, a difference in restrictions contemplated

1611
02:13:42,195 --> 02:13:45,715
between tournaments and events, but no definition

1612
02:13:46,355 --> 02:13:49,935
of either of those. What would be considered a tournament versus

1613
02:13:50,535 --> 02:13:54,365
an event? Yes, that

1614
02:13:54,655 --> 02:13:58,085
is a fair question. Um, certainly

1615
02:13:58,975 --> 02:14:02,895
fundraising events, um, and corporate events. Uh, you know,

1616
02:14:03,315 --> 02:14:07,295
and educational events would be to teach, uh, you know, uh, children

1617
02:14:07,595 --> 02:14:11,575
how to shoot, but that might not be competitive shooting where a tournament would be competitive

1618
02:14:12,215 --> 02:14:15,525
shooting. Um, this may be an opportunity to provide further clarification

1619
02:14:16,375 --> 02:14:19,965
between tournaments and events. Yeah, most of the, uh, corporate

1620
02:14:20,645 --> 02:14:24,535
team building retreats I've been to have been competition, so yes. That's why

1621
02:14:24,655 --> 02:14:27,815
I ask, been in reference to condition

1622
02:14:28,855 --> 02:14:28,855
18.

1623
02:14:33,185 --> 02:14:36,925
would that also constitute the, um, environmental stewardship

1624
02:14:38,075 --> 02:14:38,575
and lead mitigation?

1625
02:14:44,435 --> 02:14:48,385
um, the environmental

1626
02:14:48,825 --> 02:14:51,505
stewardship plan is not a required,

1627
02:14:52,965 --> 02:14:55,685
uh, beyond staff requiring it. Um,

1628
02:14:57,005 --> 02:15:00,845
if you are, if you're

1629
02:15:01,045 --> 02:15:05,005
asking if an environmental stewardship plan would be required by state or federal statutes and regulations,

1630
02:15:05,985 --> 02:15:09,655
I'm not aware that it is. Um, if there are applicable

1631
02:15:10,095 --> 02:15:13,775
d department of environmental quality laws and regulations, the applicant

1632
02:15:14,145 --> 02:15:17,895
would be required to follow them. To my knowledge, an environmental stewardship plan

1633
02:15:18,155 --> 02:15:20,845
is not one of those regulations or requirements. Okay.

1634
02:15:23,665 --> 02:15:27,615
this sound study that was, um, provided yesterday, yes.

1635
02:15:27,975 --> 02:15:31,875
um, how does staff, um, propose looking at that? Will they look at it

1636
02:15:31,995 --> 02:15:35,915
just an internal or will we seek out outside, in all likelihood,

1637
02:15:36,375 --> 02:15:39,395
we will have to seek, um, outside counsel or consultants.

1638
02:15:40,545 --> 02:15:44,495
okay. So at the moment though, you have no way to

1639
02:15:46,115 --> 02:15:49,995
evaluate that sound study. You have not had a chance to evaluate it

1640
02:15:50,215 --> 02:15:53,495
yet? Staff has not had a chance to evaluate it yet. Um,

1641
02:15:54,975 --> 02:15:58,625
and staff may not have the technical capacity to analysis analyze

1642
02:15:59,115 --> 02:16:02,905
it. Okay.

1643
02:16:04,075 --> 02:16:07,385
berms, um, yes. Eight foot above what

1644
02:16:08,475 --> 02:16:12,335
, um, the location of the shooting station. Uh,

1645
02:16:13,975 --> 02:16:17,515
so the top of the berm, I was, sorry, I was having a little trouble reading

1646
02:16:18,295 --> 02:16:20,205
the language. Eight foot above

1647
02:16:23,635 --> 02:16:27,435
the highest what, uh, nearby.

1648
02:16:28,635 --> 02:16:32,385
anyway, that's, there's a lot of where the level of shooter is. That's

1649
02:16:32,805 --> 02:16:36,745
what I'm, yeah. Where the gun or, you know, do, how far out do

1650
02:16:36,965 --> 02:16:40,065
you go if there's a, anyway, this is,

1651
02:16:41,305 --> 02:16:45,075
um, yes. The applicant's

1652
02:16:45,765 --> 02:16:49,685
conceptual plan does include language, um, with, I

1653
02:16:49,805 --> 02:16:53,715
believe it'd be within a thousand feet of the shooting station. Oh, within a thousand feet. Okay.

1654
02:16:54,005 --> 02:16:57,755
so it has to be higher, eight feet higher than than

1655
02:16:58,685 --> 02:17:02,285
a, the, a a any a shooting station within a thousand feet?

1656
02:17:03,025 --> 02:17:05,245
um, uh, let me clarify. Let me double check that real quick.

1657
02:17:17,785 --> 02:17:21,725
or I mean, I guess as it's written, you could interpret that as all sh it has to be, I

1658
02:17:21,845 --> 02:17:25,845
mean, I realize this is, the terrain here is kind of like a bowl in there talking about berms on the

1659
02:17:25,965 --> 02:17:29,345
north side. And so, sorry, I, I must correct that it is 100

1660
02:17:30,015 --> 02:17:32,925
yards, which is not one thou 1000 feet.

1661
02:17:35,155 --> 02:17:35,155
okay.

1662
02:17:39,795 --> 02:17:43,365
alright. Thank you. On the berms again,

1663
02:17:44,145 --> 02:17:47,925
has the applicant provided any validation that those berms would accomplish

1664
02:17:50,015 --> 02:17:53,895
sound mitigation? Um, if they have, staff

1665
02:17:54,265 --> 02:17:58,005
has not had time to review it. Okay. And I don't believe there's anything mentioned

1666
02:17:58,405 --> 02:18:02,195
in the sound study for that. They just, uh, the sound study, I think just

1667
02:18:02,595 --> 02:18:06,495
used existing terrain. Thank

1668
02:18:06,845 --> 02:18:10,355
you. Mm-hmm . So, um, regarding

1669
02:18:10,965 --> 02:18:14,865
the cup, you've got a line here that says that there's no

1670
02:18:15,225 --> 02:18:19,165
cup approval without a total pod well, no cup

1671
02:18:19,765 --> 02:18:23,595
activity, uh, ccp activity, that's, uh, a fancy way to say that they

1672
02:18:23,885 --> 02:18:27,885
can't, uh, begin shooting until they have an approved pod in some form.

1673
02:18:28,155 --> 02:18:31,985
okay. Is there any expiration date on this or

1674
02:18:32,205 --> 02:18:34,715
any staff has not proposed an expiration date. Okay.

1675
02:18:38,065 --> 02:18:42,035
and the thinking behind that staff

1676
02:18:42,535 --> 02:18:46,385
does not know, uh, does not have a good idea of when the applicant may get

1677
02:18:46,585 --> 02:18:50,555
up and running and, um, we

1678
02:18:50,775 --> 02:18:54,155
would hate for them to come back in, say, five years and, um,

1679
02:18:55,505 --> 02:18:58,985
do this process again without making significant pro uh,

1680
02:18:59,605 --> 02:19:02,645
progress in their business operations. Um, that

1681
02:19:11,835 --> 02:19:15,695
you say there's no quarry permitting, right? It's not permitted

1682
02:19:16,255 --> 02:19:19,935
for cory activity right now. Uh, but if they were to request

1683
02:19:20,415 --> 02:19:24,395
it, cory activity would have to be approved. Um,

1684
02:19:26,655 --> 02:19:30,655
is that, what did I read that right? The quarry permit? Um, well,

1685
02:19:31,165 --> 02:19:34,945
lux stone is the landlord of the property mm-hmm . And as such, they could

1686
02:19:35,225 --> 02:19:38,325
presumably terminate the lease agreement with, um,

1687
02:19:39,525 --> 02:19:42,905
the applicant here. Right. Um, their quarry permit remains valid.

1688
02:19:43,605 --> 02:19:47,505
um, and if approved, this would also be valid and they would have

1689
02:19:47,705 --> 02:19:51,615
a, you know, have the option of which ones they'd wanna pursue at, at right. When,

1690
02:19:52,205 --> 02:19:56,095
you know, at either time. Um, if they did both

1691
02:19:56,445 --> 02:20:00,185
at the same time, presumably that overburden area would, would

1692
02:20:00,465 --> 02:20:03,935
be an issue. Um, I believe what you're

1693
02:20:04,815 --> 02:20:08,555
asking is that there's an active quarry permit in gland county,

1694
02:20:08,935 --> 02:20:12,595
not in louisa. I think , no, I, I guess what I was asking is if we disapprove

1695
02:20:13,115 --> 02:20:16,495
this, what, and, and lux stone wants to

1696
02:20:17,135 --> 02:20:21,115
do quarrying activity, um, is that better for the residents or is it better

1697
02:20:21,315 --> 02:20:25,195
for the residents to lock up the property with this? Oh, I see. That's, that's kind of where I was headed

1698
02:20:25,355 --> 02:20:29,255
with that question. Uh, I'm

1699
02:20:29,635 --> 02:20:33,605
assuming that lux stone wouldn't be able, maybe they, maybe they can break

1700
02:20:33,975 --> 02:20:36,845
the lease early, but, um,

1701
02:20:38,195 --> 02:20:42,165
yeah. Um, I would like to add, uh, one thing, backtrack a little bit.

1702
02:20:42,385 --> 02:20:46,285
um, I must apologize. We originally had a com or a condition

1703
02:20:46,645 --> 02:20:50,205
that addressed alcohol and it appears to have been, uh, deleted

1704
02:20:50,665 --> 02:20:54,635
in the number of revisions these conditions have, um, been, have

1705
02:20:54,925 --> 02:20:58,805
gone through as such. Um, it does not appear that there would

1706
02:20:58,965 --> 02:21:02,545
be restriction on alcohol, um, as far as the

1707
02:21:03,325 --> 02:21:06,545
county's conditions would go. Um, so any,

1708
02:21:07,425 --> 02:21:11,205
um hmm. Yeah, there's no current county, so that's a state,

1709
02:21:11,545 --> 02:21:15,115
that's a state, probably a state regulated

1710
02:21:16,455 --> 02:21:20,145
thing anyway. Right. That's what I would think is they would have to provide a, uh,

1711
02:21:20,725 --> 02:21:24,445
a how an a bc license or something like that if they were gonna sell alcohol there.

1712
02:21:25,585 --> 02:21:29,445
um, so it's probably not our point at all, our issue

1713
02:21:29,685 --> 02:21:33,605
at all. Don't they have to anyway, from the size of it? Yeah, probably. So I would say

1714
02:21:33,725 --> 02:21:37,415
it's not really our, um, for the sale of

1715
02:21:37,985 --> 02:21:41,875
alcohol, you, I, I believe an a bc

1716
02:21:42,115 --> 02:21:46,075
license would be required. I'm not sure what that, that's the, what the applicant is proposing. I

1717
02:21:46,195 --> 02:21:49,735
think it would just, you know, after your corporate event of

1718
02:21:50,435 --> 02:21:54,225
shooting on the range, you know, you have a couple beers, um, hopefully just

1719
02:21:54,515 --> 02:21:58,175
to 'cause somebody, you know, people need to drive home, but mm-hmm . Um,

1720
02:22:01,215 --> 02:22:04,955
but I can also let the applicant speak to that. Okay. Yeah, I'm, I'm just thinking this is not something

1721
02:22:05,255 --> 02:22:08,135
we would regulate no. As a commission. So,

1722
02:22:16,205 --> 02:22:19,805
hey, um, can you go back to the, um, the,

1723
02:22:20,245 --> 02:22:24,145
the least area with the, uh, the red dotted lines that you had

1724
02:22:24,365 --> 02:22:27,645
on, on one of your early slides? Could you, could you do that please?

1725
02:22:32,485 --> 02:22:36,475
because it looks to me like you, you, the, the

1726
02:22:37,165 --> 02:22:41,115
shot zone area, uh, uh, the shot fall area, if

1727
02:22:41,335 --> 02:22:45,095
they don't have that red, uh, they're gonna, they're gonna have to

1728
02:22:45,405 --> 02:22:49,305
redo, especially if you spread out to three thou, 300 yards

1729
02:22:49,655 --> 02:22:53,055
as opposed to it's even gonna pick up this, uh, bottom one or two,

1730
02:22:53,675 --> 02:22:57,435
uh, shooting positions here on the south side. Um,

1731
02:22:59,155 --> 02:23:03,155
it looks to me like they extended the 10 acres out to the

1732
02:23:03,525 --> 02:23:07,375
east rather than, uh, filling in that red corner

1733
02:23:07,725 --> 02:23:11,445
area. So that looks like a problem to me. Okay.

1734
02:23:12,705 --> 02:23:14,135
thank you. Mm-hmm .

1735
02:23:24,375 --> 02:23:28,075
do we have any other questions for vince? Yeah, let me ask you, let me ask another quick one. Lighting

1736
02:23:28,585 --> 02:23:32,515
must comply, dark sky must be dark sky compliant. Can you explain that a little bit?

1737
02:23:33,175 --> 02:23:36,455
uh, yes. So generally, um, all light fixtures must, um,

1738
02:23:37,605 --> 02:23:41,435
light is not allowed to emulate, uh, up, up must be shielded

1739
02:23:41,675 --> 02:23:45,615
down. Uh, could probably go laterally, but, or down, but

1740
02:23:45,835 --> 02:23:49,435
cannot, the light cannot be emitted upwards. All right. And they are,

1741
02:23:52,125 --> 02:23:55,945
you're proposing that they, they stopped shooting at sunset, which is yes. 30

1742
02:23:56,225 --> 02:24:00,085
minutes before, uh, civil twilight, I suppose. Yes. Uh,

1743
02:24:01,045 --> 02:24:04,835
so it, I'm not sure what activities would be

1744
02:24:05,075 --> 02:24:07,705
going on at night there anyway. Yeah. Yes. Okay. Okay.

1745
02:24:10,675 --> 02:24:14,625
is the applicant proposing this to be locked gated? Um, once hours

1746
02:24:15,035 --> 02:24:18,375
of operation are over, uh, I will have to defer that to the applicant,

1747
02:24:19,315 --> 02:24:22,935
but there is no requirement for fencing all the way around. Simply no trespassing

1748
02:24:23,455 --> 02:24:27,005
signs is what I staff has not proposed a fencing requirement. Okay.

1749
02:24:34,305 --> 02:24:38,045
any other questions? Mm. Okay. Thank you. Thanks, ben. Thank

1750
02:24:38,365 --> 02:24:41,685
you. Thank you. Thanks, ben. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, would the applicant like to speak

1751
02:25:11,785 --> 02:25:15,635
forward backwards? Do you wanna point against the, um, pointer button?

1752
02:25:17,605 --> 02:25:21,555
thank you. Appreciate it. Good evening, adam chair and the,

1753
02:25:21,715 --> 02:25:25,405
uh, members of the, uh, planning, planning commission. Thank you for, uh, staying

1754
02:25:25,835 --> 02:25:29,775
late to hear this, uh, the case tonight. First of all, I'd

1755
02:25:29,995 --> 02:25:33,555
just like to set the record straight very quickly, um, on a couple of, um,

1756
02:25:34,135 --> 02:25:37,875
uh, issues. Excuse me real quick. Could you provide your name, please? Uh, my apologies. My name is nan

1757
02:25:38,235 --> 02:25:41,035
hamedi. I am the, uh, director of, uh, virginia sports park.

1758
02:25:42,415 --> 02:25:45,715
um, virginia sports park, uh, referred to as vsp

1759
02:25:46,895 --> 02:25:50,555
is not a gun range. We are a sporting clay and archery sports park. There's

1760
02:25:50,955 --> 02:25:54,675
a vast difference. There will be no rifles or pistols allowed on this

1761
02:25:55,015 --> 02:25:58,685
sports park, just for clarity, right. We are not developers.

1762
02:26:00,355 --> 02:26:03,715
vsp consists of philanthropists who have no financial gain from this project.

1763
02:26:04,815 --> 02:26:08,275
we only wish to create a wonderful opportunity for our youth that generations

1764
02:26:08,835 --> 02:26:12,555
after generations will enjoy it. After the meetings

1765
02:26:12,915 --> 02:26:16,835
and also discussing with staff, uh, and, and, and the community, uh, certain,

1766
02:26:17,255 --> 02:26:21,065
uh, concerns were raised. I want to provide a quick, uh, uh, summary

1767
02:26:21,655 --> 02:26:25,595
of those environmental, um, vsp is required

1768
02:26:25,755 --> 02:26:29,625
to have an environmental stewardship plan, which addresses monitoring, lead

1769
02:26:29,915 --> 02:26:33,555
mitigation and remediation. Can I ask you real quickly,

1770
02:26:34,095 --> 02:26:37,985
who requires that? That's part of our lease with lux stone. Okay.

1771
02:26:38,275 --> 02:26:41,835
thank you. Thank you. Um, and which will be

1772
02:26:42,305 --> 02:26:45,665
part of our ongoing activity. This the, the esp. Okay.

1773
02:26:46,335 --> 02:26:50,225
um, vsp shall follow all state and federal regulations. Dealing

1774
02:26:50,715 --> 02:26:54,675
with lead traffic was the other issue. A county

1775
02:26:55,275 --> 02:26:59,235
mandated traffic impact analysis was conducted by an independent engineering

1776
02:26:59,555 --> 02:27:02,715
firm. The county has accepted the findings of dimension tia

1777
02:27:05,395 --> 02:27:08,985
property values. This is a very subjective matter and ride,

1778
02:27:09,575 --> 02:27:13,555
and the rides in the market trends claim is without merit and

1779
02:27:13,755 --> 02:27:17,205
beyond the control of all present. Here, noise

1780
02:27:18,005 --> 02:27:21,935
seems to be the biggest concern in this particular case. We

1781
02:27:22,155 --> 02:27:25,835
have conducted three variations of tests. All of them concluded the same.

1782
02:27:26,185 --> 02:27:29,595
very low levels of sound levels are within lower range and very acceptable.

1783
02:27:30,915 --> 02:27:33,955
a professional sound in this, in sound study indicates such

1784
02:27:35,235 --> 02:27:37,675
a live demonstration was performed on monday, january 12th, 2026.

1785
02:27:40,195 --> 02:27:43,395
a total of 150 rounds were discharged in 60 minutes.

1786
02:27:44,615 --> 02:27:48,115
in the audience were four county supervisors, two planning commissioners, county administrator,

1787
02:27:49,165 --> 02:27:53,115
local residents, a supervisor from louisa county and numerous

1788
02:27:53,235 --> 02:27:56,995
staff members. County was advised to use a decibel measuring device to

1789
02:27:57,515 --> 02:28:01,495
evaluate noise at neighbor's homes inside and out. We

1790
02:28:01,715 --> 02:28:05,615
hope that those in presence were able to witness a witness how

1791
02:28:05,835 --> 02:28:09,715
minimal the sound presence actually was, and they utilized a sound measuring

1792
02:28:10,195 --> 02:28:13,395
device. Our professional sound study reveals the same

1793
02:28:14,215 --> 02:28:17,915
at this time, I will ask acoustic expert to address

1794
02:28:18,235 --> 02:28:20,455
the panel about the findings of that test. Mr. Paul thomas.

1795
02:28:25,355 --> 02:28:29,145
good. Good evening everyone. My name's paul thomas. I'm

1796
02:28:29,365 --> 02:28:32,995
with applied laboratory services. We are a third party independent

1797
02:28:33,685 --> 02:28:37,075
firm out of norfolk, virginia. Um, we conducted

1798
02:28:38,405 --> 02:28:41,965
a noise study at the facility on january 8th.

1799
02:28:43,545 --> 02:28:47,275
it included five, uh, noise dosimeters that

1800
02:28:47,565 --> 02:28:51,375
were set up on the property at various distances. Those

1801
02:28:52,045 --> 02:28:55,025
distances, um, ranged from, um,

1802
02:28:57,615 --> 02:29:01,025
50 feet behind the active shooters, um,

1803
02:29:01,745 --> 02:29:05,385
all the way out to 285 to

1804
02:29:05,975 --> 02:29:09,495
740 feet. Sampling was done in a triangular

1805
02:29:10,165 --> 02:29:13,545
pattern so that we could try and capture, um,

1806
02:29:14,285 --> 02:29:17,675
a true analysis of the noise being exhibited.

1807
02:29:19,225 --> 02:29:22,475
um, those results, um,

1808
02:29:24,045 --> 02:29:27,195
basically we conducted sampling for a two hour period

1809
02:29:28,305 --> 02:29:31,955
while active shooting was going on at clay targets, um,

1810
02:29:33,085 --> 02:29:36,815
approximately 150 rounds were shot during that period.

1811
02:29:37,955 --> 02:29:41,015
uh, the reason why we did the two hours of sampling

1812
02:29:42,195 --> 02:29:45,375
was, uh, to compare to a normal,

1813
02:29:46,435 --> 02:29:50,335
uh, event that would occur there. Um, normally those events would

1814
02:29:50,655 --> 02:29:54,515
occur in a two hour period, was our understanding. Um, during

1815
02:29:54,935 --> 02:29:58,535
this period, uh, we recorded the, uh, measurements.

1816
02:29:59,955 --> 02:30:03,315
um, decibel readings for an eight hour period

1817
02:30:04,155 --> 02:30:07,935
ranged from, um, 22.1 decibels,

1818
02:30:09,035 --> 02:30:12,095
uh, to 52.4 decibels.

1819
02:30:13,635 --> 02:30:17,345
the, uh, highest reading was collected 50

1820
02:30:17,765 --> 02:30:20,795
feet behind the shooters. Um, the,

1821
02:30:22,395 --> 02:30:26,265
the furthest, uh, decimeter was set 740

1822
02:30:27,285 --> 02:30:30,455
feet at the property line near the nearest resident.

1823
02:30:31,475 --> 02:30:35,125
um, the highest level on that for an eight hour average

1824
02:30:35,795 --> 02:30:38,675
was 36.8 decibels. The

1825
02:30:40,625 --> 02:30:44,455
osha standards associated with noise is set

1826
02:30:44,675 --> 02:30:47,835
at 85 decibels. Anything exceeding 85 decibels

1827
02:30:48,725 --> 02:30:51,605
under the regulation requires hearing protection

1828
02:30:52,735 --> 02:30:56,275
and noise mitigation. Um, based on our testing

1829
02:30:56,745 --> 02:30:59,735
results, we feel that, uh,

1830
02:31:00,845 --> 02:31:02,655
there is not, um,

1831
02:31:05,155 --> 02:31:09,055
any noise that is going to exceed those regulations. There are no

1832
02:31:09,455 --> 02:31:12,835
federal standards on regulations. They are,

1833
02:31:13,475 --> 02:31:16,935
uh, the, the federal regulat, the federal hearing conservation

1834
02:31:17,575 --> 02:31:21,425
programs basically put it back on the states. Each state has

1835
02:31:21,765 --> 02:31:25,695
a various, uh, noise regulations. Those

1836
02:31:26,375 --> 02:31:29,525
noise ordinances were put on individual counties and cities,

1837
02:31:30,415 --> 02:31:33,705
which after reviewing the, the goochland, uh, county,

1838
02:31:34,945 --> 02:31:38,555
um, noise ordinance is my understanding that,

1839
02:31:39,785 --> 02:31:43,625
uh, shooting was excluded from that. So

1840
02:31:43,845 --> 02:31:47,665
we really didn't have anything to compare to for the gland county. So

1841
02:31:47,885 --> 02:31:51,325
we refer everything to the osha standards. That's why we say 85 decibels

1842
02:31:52,225 --> 02:31:56,085
so well below hearing protection necessary, or even

1843
02:31:56,335 --> 02:32:00,245
where it should be heard, um, at distance at the surrounding residence.

1844
02:32:01,265 --> 02:32:04,955
um, I have recommended, if this is approved, that

1845
02:32:05,375 --> 02:32:08,955
additional noise sampling be done just to compile

1846
02:32:09,575 --> 02:32:13,265
historical data for the site in case it becomes, uh,

1847
02:32:13,645 --> 02:32:15,185
a concern. Um,

1848
02:32:17,835 --> 02:32:21,655
that's all I have. I have a question for you, sir. Yes, sir. Is there, um, through your

1849
02:32:21,895 --> 02:32:25,815
years of studies and research, have you noticed any difference between

1850
02:32:26,305 --> 02:32:29,925
wintertime sampling versus summer and outdoor? Well,

1851
02:32:30,565 --> 02:32:34,195
it's a great question. Um, and just a little bit about myself. So

1852
02:32:34,765 --> 02:32:38,625
I've been doing this a little over 33 years, industrial hygiene exposure monitoring,

1853
02:32:39,875 --> 02:32:43,605
um, not only fire range ranges, indoor outdoor,

1854
02:32:44,235 --> 02:32:47,995
but a number of other hazards as well. So in our

1855
02:32:48,345 --> 02:32:52,095
experience, because vegetation in the spring and summer months,

1856
02:32:52,725 --> 02:32:56,315
that will help reduce the noise levels as well. So

1857
02:32:57,365 --> 02:33:01,275
when we did our testing, it was, it was worst case scenario because the

1858
02:33:01,495 --> 02:33:04,735
leaves are down, noise can travel a little bit further.

1859
02:33:05,795 --> 02:33:08,805
um, but we didn't find anything exceeding

1860
02:33:10,025 --> 02:33:13,575
those levels. When you say it lowers, are we talking

1861
02:33:14,155 --> 02:33:17,855
two decibels, five decibels, what? During the summertime?

1862
02:33:18,375 --> 02:33:22,175
I mean, is it a, a minuscule amount or is it a I I

1863
02:33:22,455 --> 02:33:26,055
I believe it's gonna be a minuscule amount, you know, without doing the actual

1864
02:33:26,815 --> 02:33:30,455
sampling on the site, because each site is different based on the topography

1865
02:33:31,015 --> 02:33:33,955
of the land, the surrounding vegetation, um,

1866
02:33:35,315 --> 02:33:39,295
you know, it, it likely would decrease, but I don't have any data to provide

1867
02:33:39,575 --> 02:33:43,355
today on that. Okay, thank you. Mm-hmm . I wanna clarify one thing, and, and it

1868
02:33:43,585 --> 02:33:46,815
might have been confusing to the audience, is why I want to

1869
02:33:47,865 --> 02:33:51,585
bring this up. I looked at where your, uh, sound

1870
02:33:51,935 --> 02:33:55,775
monitoring stations were, and you've referred to one being 50 feet behind

1871
02:33:56,155 --> 02:33:59,975
the shooter, right? Correct. When you say

1872
02:34:00,315 --> 02:34:04,115
behind, I I, when I look at the, uh, the,

1873
02:34:04,355 --> 02:34:08,215
the maps that you provided, it looks as if it's in front of the shooter

1874
02:34:09,315 --> 02:34:12,855
as if it's in the direction that the shooting is happening.

1875
02:34:14,755 --> 02:34:18,585
so I, I guess my point is were they pointed not

1876
02:34:18,805 --> 02:34:22,405
necessarily directly at the sound measuring equipment, but in that general direction,

1877
02:34:22,925 --> 02:34:26,805
or were you actually measuring behind the back of the shooter?

1878
02:34:27,595 --> 02:34:31,545
correct. There was one behind the shooter as well. So the

1879
02:34:31,765 --> 02:34:35,545
purpose of that was to make sure we were triangulating the

1880
02:34:35,965 --> 02:34:39,685
sampling so that we had a base to compare to then I okay. Then

1881
02:34:40,045 --> 02:34:43,965
I, I don't understand the, uh, you've got the shooting position

1882
02:34:44,225 --> 02:34:48,155
marked on your, on one of your maps, and, and it looks as though this,

1883
02:34:49,075 --> 02:34:52,635
that one station is on the other side of the shooter from

1884
02:34:53,425 --> 02:34:56,425
all of the other, uh, four stations that you had. So,

1885
02:34:57,745 --> 02:35:01,565
uh, and I think you were measuring a peak levels there of 127

1886
02:35:02,665 --> 02:35:06,485
db or something like that. So, um, the, the peak, which is the highest

1887
02:35:06,925 --> 02:35:10,805
I understand recorded, yes. Yeah. So, um, so it does, it, it, I don't know. To me that sounded like it

1888
02:35:10,965 --> 02:35:14,895
was, um, not necessarily directly

1889
02:35:15,015 --> 02:35:18,955
in front of the barrel, but in, in that general direction, the,

1890
02:35:19,315 --> 02:35:23,055
the, the sample behind them. Well, what you, what you were referring to is behind

1891
02:35:23,515 --> 02:35:27,175
though that, I dunno, to me, if I was shooting in your direction

1892
02:35:27,615 --> 02:35:31,325
yeah, right. It was a sample that, okay. Alright. Behind then,

1893
02:35:31,765 --> 02:35:35,595
then the map that I'm looking at of your, uh, of your

1894
02:35:36,535 --> 02:35:40,415
sensor locations, uh, this map right here, yes. You're

1895
02:35:40,835 --> 02:35:44,395
showing one to the right of the shooting position.

1896
02:35:45,995 --> 02:35:47,415
sample one is directly behind them.

1897
02:35:50,285 --> 02:35:54,175
it, it, it might be obscured by the, the little, uh, plot.

1898
02:35:57,205 --> 02:36:00,715
the, the circle in the middle there was their firing location. Right.

1899
02:36:01,565 --> 02:36:05,015
and they were firing, uh, directly towards, uh,

1900
02:36:05,975 --> 02:36:09,675
sample areas, two, three, and four. Oh, they were actually shooting back towards

1901
02:36:10,075 --> 02:36:13,455
walton road. Yes, sir. No,

1902
02:36:14,255 --> 02:36:18,225
no, no, no, no, no, no. So they

1903
02:36:18,515 --> 02:36:22,255
were shooting towards 64. If you look at the second map that's

1904
02:36:22,915 --> 02:36:26,845
provided, which, which is a yes, I,

1905
02:36:27,045 --> 02:36:30,625
I see the second, second map. So they were shooting in the direction of

1906
02:36:31,295 --> 02:36:34,545
interstate 64. 64 and yes.

1907
02:36:37,745 --> 02:36:37,965
all right.

1908
02:36:44,685 --> 02:36:48,105
okay. All right. In your,

1909
02:36:48,805 --> 02:36:52,745
uh, expertise, if you put, we're all shooting on the ground, everything

1910
02:36:53,345 --> 02:36:57,145
was done on the ground, if you put someone up 10 feet, does that change

1911
02:36:57,365 --> 02:37:00,585
the noise level? Very minimal. Very minimal, yes, ma'am.

1912
02:37:03,645 --> 02:37:07,355
okay. Mr. Thomas, I appreciate

1913
02:37:07,755 --> 02:37:11,335
that. Lacking other standards, you're using osha as a standard. Um,

1914
02:37:12,255 --> 02:37:15,965
and I'm familiar with time weighted analysis. We use that when we talk about hazardous

1915
02:37:16,725 --> 02:37:20,605
materials, similar concepts, um, and that's important when

1916
02:37:20,845 --> 02:37:24,005
you talk about osha, but let's talk about it in this situation.

1917
02:37:25,025 --> 02:37:28,795
um, how is time weighted analysis different than the instantaneous

1918
02:37:29,565 --> 02:37:33,515
peaks that, uh, that you experienced in how might residents

1919
02:37:33,925 --> 02:37:37,855
experience that noise? Not over eight hours, but at the moment. Right, so

1920
02:37:38,335 --> 02:37:42,075
one thing to understand when doing noise analysis, you have your

1921
02:37:42,515 --> 02:37:46,505
l peak and you have your l your l max. So your

1922
02:37:46,995 --> 02:37:50,855
l peak is basically your acoustical, uh, signal.

1923
02:37:52,375 --> 02:37:56,275
um, the highest measurement, right, the highest measurement of less than

1924
02:37:56,575 --> 02:38:00,415
in a micro a hundred microseconds, if you will. The, your, your max

1925
02:38:01,295 --> 02:38:05,165
is, is basically the measurement period, um, for that noise

1926
02:38:05,645 --> 02:38:09,615
event. So, um, the time weighted average yes.

1927
02:38:09,935 --> 02:38:13,795
is very important. And, and mind you, there were

1928
02:38:13,955 --> 02:38:17,755
about 7,000 sampling points for each

1929
02:38:17,995 --> 02:38:21,715
monitor during this two hour period. Um, each monitor

1930
02:38:22,255 --> 02:38:26,075
was collecting that data. It's calculated based on the time weighted average.

1931
02:38:26,655 --> 02:38:30,625
so it does take into consideration your l peak and your,

1932
02:38:31,255 --> 02:38:33,955
uh, max sound at each time.

1933
02:38:36,795 --> 02:38:40,595
okay. I understand that. Mm-hmm . But how is that experienced

1934
02:38:41,795 --> 02:38:45,725
perceived when you have those high peak perceived noise levels? Well, it's an average, right? We all know average

1935
02:38:46,065 --> 02:38:49,805
is a horrible statistical measurement for things. Sure. Well, I,

1936
02:38:50,085 --> 02:38:53,985
I, I mean, you have a car go by that doesn't have an exhaust on

1937
02:38:54,205 --> 02:38:57,645
it. Is it loud? Sure. The, the, the difference

1938
02:38:58,225 --> 02:39:02,105
is it, when it comes to noise and noise conservation,

1939
02:39:03,335 --> 02:39:06,425
it's over that eight period of time. There is no other regulatory

1940
02:39:07,925 --> 02:39:11,705
agency that has information on that when it comes

1941
02:39:11,985 --> 02:39:15,465
to hearing conservation. So yes, you're gonna have

1942
02:39:16,125 --> 02:39:19,705
higher and lower with the buffer zone that they have there with the vegetation.

1943
02:39:21,005 --> 02:39:24,925
the, the data that we have that dropped off even on

1944
02:39:25,305 --> 02:39:29,065
that l peak and l max was significant at the

1945
02:39:29,505 --> 02:39:31,605
property lines. So, um,

1946
02:39:33,685 --> 02:39:36,905
you know that, that, yes, you're gonna have

1947
02:39:37,935 --> 02:39:41,395
higher points, you're gonna have multiple people shooting.

1948
02:39:42,215 --> 02:39:46,035
um, typically my experience with, with clay, shooting, with, with the monitoring

1949
02:39:46,555 --> 02:39:50,555
that we've conducted, um, people take turns. You don't

1950
02:39:50,795 --> 02:39:53,595
have a hundred people shooting at, you know, one clay target.

1951
02:39:54,825 --> 02:39:58,665
it's a process that works just like on a golf course where you take

1952
02:39:58,955 --> 02:40:02,255
your turn to have your putt. Um, so

1953
02:40:03,975 --> 02:40:07,265
you know, you, you will have some elevated, and that's why I suggested

1954
02:40:08,125 --> 02:40:11,345
additional testing down the road if they do become operational,

1955
02:40:12,215 --> 02:40:16,045
so that that data can be compiled and pro, you know, provided

1956
02:40:16,305 --> 02:40:20,285
as well. Alright, and another question, I don't really understand

1957
02:40:20,725 --> 02:40:23,885
how sound works, so I have a lot of questions. If you fire

1958
02:40:24,905 --> 02:40:28,485
one shotgun and it has x decibels and then you fire

1959
02:40:29,145 --> 02:40:33,065
three shotguns at the exact time, is that three x

1960
02:40:33,185 --> 02:40:37,105
the number of decibels or is it the same level or something

1961
02:40:37,465 --> 02:40:41,125
in between? I mean, one would think yes, you, you would have a, a slider

1962
02:40:41,545 --> 02:40:45,395
level of decibel readings. However, I don't

1963
02:40:45,745 --> 02:40:49,735
think, well, I know through my experience that that is not a way clay

1964
02:40:50,975 --> 02:40:54,825
operational works. Um, you're not gonna have three people shooting

1965
02:40:55,005 --> 02:40:58,985
at one target. Um, I understand. I just didn't know how sound work. If you

1966
02:40:59,105 --> 02:41:02,925
have a 50 db sound and an 80 db sound, is

1967
02:41:03,145 --> 02:41:07,065
that 130 dbs or is that 80 dbs in the fifties mask? No. And that, that, that's

1968
02:41:07,425 --> 02:41:11,305
kind of the purpose for the eight hour time weighted average for, for doing that

1969
02:41:11,885 --> 02:41:15,545
is to figure out what that trend is. I mean,

1970
02:41:15,985 --> 02:41:18,845
ultimately if you have three people shooting simultaneously,

1971
02:41:21,605 --> 02:41:25,145
you would think that the noise levels would be very similar. They're not going to

1972
02:41:25,745 --> 02:41:29,625
increase significantly. Okay. You know, from what I've seen. Thank you.

1973
02:41:29,925 --> 02:41:33,735
yes, sir. Okay.

1974
02:41:34,125 --> 02:41:38,025
any other questions? I don't

1975
02:41:38,225 --> 02:41:42,115
know how much time we have left because there's a lot of questions. If I may just take about three,

1976
02:41:42,465 --> 02:41:46,335
four minutes and go through the, uh, powerpoint presentation really quick. Yeah, please. Sure.

1977
02:41:46,625 --> 02:41:50,365
yes. Thank you. I appreciate that. Take up some of your time. Thank you very much. So, uh,

1978
02:41:50,655 --> 02:41:54,505
just, uh, this is an overview. Most of you already know what this is, but just should go over, uh, some

1979
02:41:54,705 --> 02:41:57,815
of the, uh, information on virginia sport, uh, sports park.

1980
02:41:58,765 --> 02:42:02,505
uh, we wanna talk about who we are. Uh, we are a 5 0 1 c3

1981
02:42:02,825 --> 02:42:06,385
nonprofit charitable organization committed to building character, teaching safety,

1982
02:42:07,485 --> 02:42:11,305
and strengthening families through outdoor sporting activities. We are not a

1983
02:42:11,545 --> 02:42:15,175
shooting range. We're community focused sporting facility designed with gland's,

1984
02:42:15,665 --> 02:42:19,545
values at heart, youth development, structured programs for character and

1985
02:42:19,705 --> 02:42:23,265
skill building, safety education, big on safety education, professional

1986
02:42:24,065 --> 02:42:27,595
instructors and and responsible outdoor activities, community engagement,

1987
02:42:28,635 --> 02:42:31,515
bringing families and generations together, charitable commitment

1988
02:42:32,955 --> 02:42:36,475
operated as a nonprofit, reinvesting into programs, families

1989
02:42:37,055 --> 02:42:40,995
and charitable events, serving our communities for a nonprofit organization,

1990
02:42:41,715 --> 02:42:45,455
as we said, building a facility that serves the heart of our community. From boy scouts

1991
02:42:45,895 --> 02:42:49,785
to schools to four h to multi-generational families seeking quality time

1992
02:42:50,565 --> 02:42:54,395
youth organizations. Our partners include boy scouts, girl scouts, young

1993
02:42:54,675 --> 02:42:58,585
life, and four h, um, to provide structure, outdoor

1994
02:42:59,075 --> 02:43:02,825
education that builds leadership and responsibility, educational

1995
02:43:03,515 --> 02:43:07,475
programs for board and community organizations focused on safety, teamwork and outdoor

1996
02:43:07,915 --> 02:43:11,745
skills and family bonding, uh, creating meaningful connections between

1997
02:43:12,145 --> 02:43:15,385
parents, grandparents and youth through shared outdoor experiences.

1998
02:43:16,885 --> 02:43:20,695
what's our mission? Our mission is building character through outdoor activities. Our core values include

1999
02:43:21,465 --> 02:43:25,305
building, build character in young people, teach comprehensive safety practices,

2000
02:43:25,775 --> 02:43:29,565
promote personal responsibility, strength and family bonds. Foster

2001
02:43:30,015 --> 02:43:33,885
community connections instill and promote respect for nature and

2002
02:43:34,135 --> 02:43:37,785
responsible conservation. Through structured outdoor activities,

2003
02:43:38,305 --> 02:43:40,865
we create opportunities for growth, learning, and meaningful relationships.

2004
02:43:42,695 --> 02:43:46,455
some of the benefits to gland county youth and richmond programs, providing

2005
02:43:47,175 --> 02:43:51,085
safe supervised activities that keep young people engaged, active

2006
02:43:52,085 --> 02:43:56,065
and learning valuable life skills in a supportive environment. Economic

2007
02:43:56,745 --> 02:44:00,025
contribution, creating local jobs, attracting visitors to the area,

2008
02:44:00,805 --> 02:44:04,765
and supporting goland businesses and charities through events and tournaments. Our

2009
02:44:04,985 --> 02:44:08,885
capital investment is, is expected to exceed between two to

2010
02:44:09,105 --> 02:44:12,505
$2.5 million in this conservation leadership

2011
02:44:13,705 --> 02:44:17,095
teaching environmental stewardship, habitat preservation, and responsible

2012
02:44:17,785 --> 02:44:21,505
outdoor practices to the next generation community gathering space,

2013
02:44:22,065 --> 02:44:25,845
offering a venue for fundraisers, school outings, corporate team building, and

2014
02:44:26,165 --> 02:44:29,875
multi-generational family activities, addressing

2015
02:44:30,545 --> 02:44:34,345
your concerns. A lot of these we have, uh, addressed and we will address after comment,

2016
02:44:34,845 --> 02:44:38,115
the citizens' comment period as well. Understanding

2017
02:44:38,965 --> 02:44:42,725
the concerns, uh, noise impact, uh, there, the worry

2018
02:44:43,045 --> 02:44:47,005
of shooting sports will create excessive disruptive noise affecting the quality of life

2019
02:44:47,225 --> 02:44:50,905
and property values. Uh, as you've already heard from our, uh, uh,

2020
02:44:51,655 --> 02:44:55,525
sound, um, expert, that noise is not an issue

2021
02:44:55,765 --> 02:44:59,475
in this case. The reality is sporting clays five stands and wobble trap, they operate

2022
02:44:59,965 --> 02:45:03,245
intermittently during limited daytime hours,

2023
02:45:03,985 --> 02:45:07,765
not continuously, not late at night, and the activity is seasonal and weather

2024
02:45:08,365 --> 02:45:12,295
dependent. Um, an independent third party professional sound study, which

2025
02:45:12,575 --> 02:45:15,855
you just heard, basically reveal the same sound mitigation strategy.

2026
02:45:17,195 --> 02:45:20,995
vsp will erect natural terrain buffers, uh, uh, excuse

2027
02:45:21,355 --> 02:45:25,195
me, berms, uh, with newly planted pines will utilize natural

2028
02:45:25,555 --> 02:45:29,555
terrain buffers throughout the property. Engineered berms, evergreen plantings,

2029
02:45:30,535 --> 02:45:34,355
uh, new tree lines, strategic course layout pointing away from

2030
02:45:34,555 --> 02:45:37,445
the residences and target loads that minimize sound

2031
02:45:39,375 --> 02:45:43,015
safety is our foundation. Professional instruction, mandatory safety

2032
02:45:43,755 --> 02:45:47,315
training, supervised activities and strict protocols

2033
02:45:47,775 --> 02:45:51,755
ensure every participant follows best practices. Safety isn't a

2034
02:45:52,075 --> 02:45:55,755
priority, is our culture through thoughtful traffic management. Located

2035
02:45:56,375 --> 02:45:59,935
at haysville exit of I 64 with easy access,

2036
02:46:00,765 --> 02:46:04,515
minimizing impact on area roadways, tia conducted showed

2037
02:46:04,855 --> 02:46:08,515
no significant increase to current traffic levels, and it has a controlled

2038
02:46:09,315 --> 02:46:13,315
limited use property valuation we talked

2039
02:46:13,515 --> 02:46:17,435
about said this is based on market trend. This is outside of anyone's

2040
02:46:17,995 --> 02:46:21,875
control. Uh, we are gonna be champions of conservation, habitat preservation

2041
02:46:22,435 --> 02:46:26,195
and environmental stewardship education. This

2042
02:46:26,485 --> 02:46:30,205
is a positive for gland, this is for the youth and generations

2043
02:46:30,805 --> 02:46:34,335
to come. Family connections, youth opportunities, and community pride.

2044
02:46:35,335 --> 02:46:39,145
thank you for your time on that. And a couple of days ago

2045
02:46:39,465 --> 02:46:43,055
we had forwarded, uh, some, uh, responses to the draft conditions

2046
02:46:43,725 --> 02:46:47,565
to, uh, to all of you. And our responses

2047
02:46:47,885 --> 02:46:51,205
are basically we're dealing with outstanding issues, draft conditions to the cup

2048
02:46:52,105 --> 02:46:56,045
and fire marshals review comments, those are in there after the comment period.

2049
02:46:56,385 --> 02:46:59,285
if you have questions on there, we are happy to address those with you as well.

2050
02:47:01,175 --> 02:47:02,485
thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.

2051
02:47:07,985 --> 02:47:08,205
all right.

2052
02:47:13,715 --> 02:47:17,525
all right. We are now going to, uh, open the citizen comment

2053
02:47:18,075 --> 02:47:20,615
period. Um, do you want start that?

2054
02:47:23,905 --> 02:47:27,745
take a break. I'm good. I'm good. Are you? We should start it. Yeah,

2055
02:47:28,035 --> 02:47:32,035
let's start. All right, let's go. All right. We welcome the number of residents who are

2056
02:47:32,155 --> 02:47:36,155
engaged on this issue, and we want to hear from everyone who wants to speak at the public

2057
02:47:36,355 --> 02:47:40,275
hearing. Because of the number of people here tonight, we have allowed people to sign up

2058
02:47:40,435 --> 02:47:44,335
for public comment electronically before the meeting. This list is

2059
02:47:44,555 --> 02:47:48,475
being used to help us better manage public comment and move efficiently through this process.

2060
02:47:49,575 --> 02:47:53,415
during the public comment period, we are going to be calling up speakers in groups. We

2061
02:47:53,635 --> 02:47:57,625
ask that you take a seat in the front reserved rows.

2062
02:47:58,385 --> 02:48:02,215
this will allow everyone to, uh, still be able to see the screen and

2063
02:48:02,435 --> 02:48:06,295
the presentation. Um, also, per the fire marshal, please remain seated

2064
02:48:06,735 --> 02:48:10,715
and keep the aisles clear until your name is called. Uh, for those

2065
02:48:10,875 --> 02:48:14,755
of you who wish to speak but have not signed up, we will hear from you after the

2066
02:48:14,955 --> 02:48:18,835
people who have signed up have spoken, everyone will have the opportunity to share their

2067
02:48:18,995 --> 02:48:22,915
thoughts. Uh, for those of you yielding your time to someone

2068
02:48:23,155 --> 02:48:26,715
else, you must come up to the podium with the person you're yielding the time to

2069
02:48:27,285 --> 02:48:30,715
state your name and address for the record, and then you may return to your seat.

2070
02:48:31,775 --> 02:48:35,675
um, it is great to have so many people here and engaged on this issue, and we

2071
02:48:35,795 --> 02:48:39,755
know you want to support speakers with whom you agree, but we want to ensure

2072
02:48:40,075 --> 02:48:43,915
that the public is managed efficiently so that we can hear from as many people

2073
02:48:44,735 --> 02:48:48,575
as possible. Therefore, please, please

2074
02:48:49,875 --> 02:48:53,835
refrain from clapping, yelling, making snide comments, things that

2075
02:48:53,995 --> 02:48:57,585
are going to keep us here longer. Um, we do want to hear from

2076
02:48:58,115 --> 02:49:01,935
everyone, um, but we don't want to make it where we have to do, um,

2077
02:49:02,635 --> 02:49:06,395
a recess or we have to take a break. Um, a lot of us do have to go to work tomorrow.

2078
02:49:07,145 --> 02:49:10,825
and, um, we wanna get through this, um, as respectfully as

2079
02:49:11,285 --> 02:49:14,525
possible. We are all here in the community together, and we do wanna hear from everyone.

2080
02:49:15,385 --> 02:49:18,965
uh, for those of you, oh, nevermind, uh, please direct your remarks

2081
02:49:19,465 --> 02:49:23,425
to the planning commission, um, chair. Uh,

2082
02:49:23,645 --> 02:49:27,605
and once your name is called, please come forward and state your name and address. You will

2083
02:49:27,765 --> 02:49:31,365
then have three minutes to speak unless you, uh, have been seated to your time.

2084
02:49:32,185 --> 02:49:36,145
um, again, when you first start to speak, the green light will come on, and

2085
02:49:36,365 --> 02:49:40,205
then the yellow will indicate that you have one minute left, and then when it is red, that

2086
02:49:40,405 --> 02:49:44,385
means your time is up. And please do respect that as we do have many, um,

2087
02:49:45,005 --> 02:49:48,965
citizens to speak tonight. Um, but again, if you are seating your time, you will have more time,

2088
02:49:49,225 --> 02:49:52,945
but just please be aware of the, um, the lights that do go on.

2089
02:49:53,905 --> 02:49:57,525
um, we can now call our first, um, public comment,

2090
02:49:58,415 --> 02:50:01,425
right? If karen grief, laura corwin,

2091
02:50:02,745 --> 02:50:06,645
sandra smith, karen george, and david sisson could please

2092
02:50:06,915 --> 02:50:10,605
come to the podium. We'll have your cedars, um, go first

2093
02:50:11,065 --> 02:50:14,865
and see their time. And then if we could just stage in the front row,

2094
02:50:15,625 --> 02:50:18,995
um, lindsey gibson, julie duff, ryan ferrell,

2095
02:50:20,665 --> 02:50:23,805
dan richardson, and sarah lindeman. Thank you.

2096
02:50:26,295 --> 02:50:29,235
good evening, uh, panel and madam chair,

2097
02:50:30,325 --> 02:50:34,305
my name is karen grief, 2 0 8 duke street. I'm going to

2098
02:50:34,505 --> 02:50:36,375
seed my time to mr. Size.

2099
02:50:40,445 --> 02:50:44,025
my name is laura corwin. I live at 2 0 8 duke street.

2100
02:50:45,125 --> 02:50:46,525
I'm seating my time to david sisson,

2101
02:50:51,235 --> 02:50:55,095
sandra smith, 2 0 8 duke street. Seating time to david

2102
02:50:55,435 --> 02:50:59,025
sisson. Karen george,

2103
02:50:59,955 --> 02:51:03,535
1 7 5 bir street. I'm seating my time to david c

2104
02:51:04,745 --> 02:51:06,205
thanks, mom. .

2105
02:51:41,045 --> 02:51:43,185
I know. Sorry about that. Um,

2106
02:51:45,255 --> 02:51:49,085
there we are. So for this you have forward backward.

2107
02:51:51,515 --> 02:51:53,045
okay. Thank you so much.

2108
02:51:55,585 --> 02:51:59,565
hi. Good night. Good evening. Um, thank you again for the

2109
02:51:59,685 --> 02:52:03,625
opportunity to speak tonight. Can you just state your name and address please? Yep. My name is david sisen. It

2110
02:52:03,845 --> 02:52:07,845
was the next line, , sorry. I live at 50 20 6:00 am road. I would be

2111
02:52:08,365 --> 02:52:11,445
directly impacted, uh, by vsps proposed range half a mile away.

2112
02:52:12,425 --> 02:52:16,405
the vsp community impact and site suitability report we prepared was sent to the county last friday.

2113
02:52:17,435 --> 02:52:21,335
the latest version is at no range on walton.com under community concerns

2114
02:52:22,795 --> 02:52:26,725
and it will continue to be updated there. I wanna thank the commission,

2115
02:52:27,785 --> 02:52:31,675
uh, for all the hard work they do, and like

2116
02:52:31,835 --> 02:52:35,475
mr. Kimberly, I'd like to urge everyone here to engage in civil discourse,

2117
02:52:36,375 --> 02:52:40,155
to be respectful of each other, even in deep disagreement, to be open-minded

2118
02:52:40,555 --> 02:52:44,275
and seek mutual understanding, to be willing to compromise unless the health, safety

2119
02:52:44,775 --> 02:52:48,635
and dignity of another person is at stake. This virginia code outlines the planning commission's,

2120
02:52:49,415 --> 02:52:53,035
powers and duties to the end that residential areas be provided with healthy

2121
02:52:53,635 --> 02:52:56,675
surroundings for family life and the agricultural and forestal land be preserved.

2122
02:52:58,395 --> 02:53:02,225
these are at risk. If this permit is approved, it is my personal belief.

2123
02:53:02,845 --> 02:53:06,645
and outdoor shotgun range can be good for a rural community in

2124
02:53:06,865 --> 02:53:09,585
the right location. However, this location is wholly unsuitable.

2125
02:53:14,905 --> 02:53:18,795
here are the facts. Lux stone site plan deliberately avoids deep creek

2126
02:53:18,995 --> 02:53:22,615
and the wetlands, uh, this is cool here.

2127
02:53:26,525 --> 02:53:30,415
uh, blasting is limited and scheduled, and there's a half mile buffer between

2128
02:53:30,905 --> 02:53:33,235
the extraction area and the nearest how homes.

2129
02:53:34,945 --> 02:53:37,595
so from here to the nearest homes here,

2130
02:53:40,455 --> 02:53:43,185
whereas vs. P's slight plan overlaps both.

2131
02:53:48,305 --> 02:53:52,195
oh, skipped. These next two slides are in the report. This

2132
02:53:52,485 --> 02:53:56,485
slide shows that based on full shot file zones, shooters cannot avoid depositing

2133
02:53:56,965 --> 02:54:00,765
shot into the wetlands. Wetlands are, uh,

2134
02:54:01,265 --> 02:54:02,145
emphasized in the middle there.

2135
02:54:05,785 --> 02:54:09,115
this slide depicts the government's current assessment of the wetlands and fema flood hazard areas.

2136
02:54:12,665 --> 02:54:16,655
there is no configuration of shooting stations that eliminates the risk to those outside the

2137
02:54:16,975 --> 02:54:16,975
property.

2138
02:54:21,055 --> 02:54:22,835
the proposed, uh, shooting stations are in black.

2139
02:54:25,365 --> 02:54:29,075
here's what the full shot fall zones negligent

2140
02:54:29,685 --> 02:54:33,165
or accident. Dental discharges do happen, and when they do, they can result in catastrophic

2141
02:54:33,765 --> 02:54:37,725
consequences. Redundant systems need to be in place to eliminate as

2142
02:54:37,885 --> 02:54:41,835
much risk as possible. Here are the 360 degree shot fall zones. They

2143
02:54:42,125 --> 02:54:45,775
overlap with adjacent properties and homes. Walton road and highway 64.

2144
02:54:47,725 --> 02:54:50,825
do not accept that risk when you can 100% prevent it.

2145
02:54:51,965 --> 02:54:55,005
a thousand foot setbacks ensure shot fall remains on the property.

2146
02:54:59,015 --> 02:55:02,825
this table shows the number of homes surrounding the site alongside six other ranges in

2147
02:55:03,165 --> 02:55:06,695
virginia. Vsp likes to use bull run as an example. However,

2148
02:55:07,185 --> 02:55:09,985
within half a mile, the area of highest impact, it's not even close.

2149
02:55:11,485 --> 02:55:15,345
one of these things is not like the others, but sometimes a pitcher is the only way

2150
02:55:15,505 --> 02:55:18,575
to truly experience data. Vsp will always be on the left.

2151
02:55:19,605 --> 02:55:23,405
one key takeaway is that 95% of the homes within one mile of any

2152
02:55:23,625 --> 02:55:27,515
comparison range were built after the range was open, sometimes decades later.

2153
02:55:30,705 --> 02:55:34,295
here's bull run in fairfax. 120 homes built after

2154
02:55:35,625 --> 02:55:39,405
the range opened. Cavalier sporting

2155
02:55:39,765 --> 02:55:43,685
clays in hanover, 65 homes built after the range was open.

2156
02:55:45,865 --> 02:55:49,855
and again for flying rabbit in mount crawford. Uh, the homes

2157
02:55:50,035 --> 02:55:53,965
are the yellow dots in case that wasn't clear. And again,

2158
02:55:54,305 --> 02:55:57,275
for, uh, old, sorry. Yeah.

2159
02:55:58,465 --> 02:56:01,605
and again, for, uh, old forge near east of richmond,

2160
02:56:04,315 --> 02:56:08,205
only central virginia sporting clays had more than a few homes within a one mile,

2161
02:56:09,545 --> 02:56:13,505
uh, within one mile built before the range opened. It serves in as, as one

2162
02:56:13,705 --> 02:56:16,505
example of the maximum home density that should be considered for a new range.

2163
02:56:18,845 --> 02:56:21,835
an even better example is, or apacs. In uchin county,

2164
02:56:23,265 --> 02:56:26,475
orax was permitted to operate an outdoor range in 2013.

2165
02:56:27,985 --> 02:56:31,785
that permit is an example of the minimum conditions that need to be imposed. The

2166
02:56:32,005 --> 02:56:35,925
range was four acres on the backside of a 670 acre lot. It was at least

2167
02:56:36,045 --> 02:56:39,845
0.8 miles from any residence and one mile from any road. These implicit

2168
02:56:40,445 --> 02:56:44,405
uchin county precedents must apply to vsp. Written setback conditions

2169
02:56:44,805 --> 02:56:48,575
weren't necessary in that case because the range was well away from homes, roads,

2170
02:56:49,065 --> 02:56:52,785
and property lines, and they were not allowed to move it. Any

2171
02:56:53,165 --> 02:56:56,805
shooting range closer to homes or roads or with a higher home density than or apac should be denied.

2172
02:56:58,025 --> 02:57:01,865
the contrast is even more impaired at half a mile. I'll move quickly to

2173
02:57:02,085 --> 02:57:05,745
get to the bottom line. Here's bull run

2174
02:57:06,385 --> 02:57:09,135
at half a mile, cavalier

2175
02:57:11,945 --> 02:57:14,935
flying rabbit, old forge,

2176
02:57:16,595 --> 02:57:19,505
central virginia sporting clays and or packs.

2177
02:57:21,055 --> 02:57:22,635
here's all of those six together.

2178
02:57:26,505 --> 02:57:28,085
here's virginia's, uh, sports park.

2179
02:57:31,125 --> 02:57:35,105
the homes on these maps are like shotgun pellets hitting a neighborhood. While it only

2180
02:57:35,265 --> 02:57:39,185
takes a couple of pellets to break a clay target, vsp would be the only range guaranteed to

2181
02:57:39,345 --> 02:57:40,665
be absolutely lethal to the neighbors

2182
02:57:43,615 --> 02:57:46,555
on the right are all six comp ranges combined.

2183
02:57:47,655 --> 02:57:51,505
only 15 homes were built or already existed within half a mile

2184
02:57:51,665 --> 02:57:54,985
of any of those ranges. In the combined 207 years of operation

2185
02:57:56,495 --> 02:58:00,395
on walton road, there are already 35 preexisting homes within half a mile

2186
02:58:00,555 --> 02:58:04,005
of e-s-e-s-p 120. Within a mile over 500

2187
02:58:04,945 --> 02:58:08,745
in two miles. Only bull run in

2188
02:58:08,965 --> 02:58:12,705
fairfax can rival that home density beyond half a mile. And if gluten

2189
02:58:13,105 --> 02:58:15,545
reached that density level, we're no longer rural.

2190
02:58:17,335 --> 02:58:20,925
there are 10 homes in a quarter mile. The three closest homes are 600

2191
02:58:21,385 --> 02:58:25,145
or 700 feet away from the nearest shooting station. Full transparency,

2192
02:58:26,195 --> 02:58:29,835
homes of range mirrors were not depicted, however, not even homes

2193
02:58:30,575 --> 02:58:34,145
were as, uh, not even their homes were as little as 600 feet away from the nearest shooting station.

2194
02:58:35,505 --> 02:58:39,435
when the half miles depicted for all the shooting stations, you can see the full extent of the

2195
02:58:39,555 --> 02:58:39,555
impact.

2196
02:58:45,455 --> 02:58:49,175
why does it matter? Shotgun

2197
02:58:49,665 --> 02:58:53,585
noise travels long distances. Exposure can damage your hearing. This light can be

2198
02:58:53,705 --> 02:58:57,705
found in the report, so I'm not gonna read it all in short, the closer you are to the source, the louder

2199
02:58:57,845 --> 02:59:01,635
the noise and the less time you can be exposed before it damages your hearing. Under

2200
02:59:01,985 --> 02:59:05,585
the right conditions, a shotgun can be heard from two miles away. That's 500 plus homes

2201
02:59:06,065 --> 02:59:09,705
affected. This chart shows decibels,

2202
02:59:10,495 --> 02:59:14,345
decibel levels, with example sources also in the report. Homes up to

2203
02:59:14,505 --> 02:59:18,325
a mile away could be subject to noise between 85 and 105 decibels or

2204
02:59:18,745 --> 02:59:20,685
more for simultaneous shots.

2205
02:59:23,255 --> 02:59:27,205
according to the cdc, allowable exposure to noises above 94 decibels is counted in

2206
02:59:27,425 --> 02:59:31,345
the minutes, not hours before hearing damage occurs. 10 homes within

2207
02:59:31,905 --> 02:59:35,825
a quarter mile would experience 97 decibels or more. That's 30 minutes or less

2208
02:59:35,945 --> 02:59:38,375
of allowable exposure. This is while outside their own home.

2209
02:59:42,645 --> 02:59:46,135
hearing damage isn't the only adverse effect from noise of of this nature.

2210
02:59:47,095 --> 02:59:51,075
the unpredictable shots can also cause stress response leading to other health concerns.

2211
02:59:52,315 --> 02:59:56,235
vsp is incentivized to make the range as popular as possible. Vsp plans

2212
02:59:56,435 --> 03:00:00,395
to be open more days per week and more hours per day than any of these public ranges.

2213
03:00:01,475 --> 03:00:05,075
conservative estimates of average shots fired are 10,000 per day

2214
03:00:05,575 --> 03:00:09,535
during the winter and 17,000 during the summer. That's 10,000

2215
03:00:10,115 --> 03:00:13,635
shots a day all day, every day for the rest of our lives,

2216
03:00:15,385 --> 03:00:19,365
or 10,000 cars without exhaust. The evidence shows that

2217
03:00:19,545 --> 03:00:23,005
no one chooses to live within a half a mile of a gun range. If they can avoid it

2218
03:00:26,115 --> 03:00:29,775
at a minimum, minimum, the following conditions must be opposed.

2219
03:00:30,865 --> 03:00:34,835
an environmental stewardship plan for lead, which I'm glad is required. Noise limits

2220
03:00:35,515 --> 03:00:39,155
measured at the property lines. A thousand foot setbacks for shooting stations from property lines

2221
03:00:39,735 --> 03:00:43,715
and 1500 from roads shooting stations no closer than three quarters

2222
03:00:43,995 --> 03:00:47,835
of a mile from a home. Fewer hours, hours per day, and fewer days per week.

2223
03:00:49,165 --> 03:00:53,105
if the board of supervisor fails to, uh, supervisors fail to impose all of

2224
03:00:53,185 --> 03:00:56,865
these conditions, that precedent means there could be a commercial gun range on any gland parcel

2225
03:00:57,485 --> 03:01:01,335
as small as 85 acres and zoned a one a two. There

2226
03:01:01,685 --> 03:01:05,555
are nearly 360 such parcels in gucci county. An unconditioned

2227
03:01:06,195 --> 03:01:10,115
permit would act like a dinner bell to anyone looking for a sympathetic county to open

2228
03:01:10,315 --> 03:01:14,305
a commercial outdoor sh shotgun range. Imagine a range

2229
03:01:14,385 --> 03:01:17,435
near you operating from 8:00 am to sunset, 365

2230
03:01:18,745 --> 03:01:22,715
days a year. Next time it could be you if you want it to

2231
03:01:22,835 --> 03:01:24,075
be you. Contact vsp

2232
03:01:26,985 --> 03:01:30,775
based on these facts. My hope is that vsp will recognize how unsuitable this site is

2233
03:01:31,615 --> 03:01:35,435
withdraw their application and continue the search. I hope they use our feedback and

2234
03:01:35,715 --> 03:01:39,575
our report to help them improve their engagement with their next potential neighbors.

2235
03:01:40,545 --> 03:01:44,305
I wanna be, I wanna believe that vsp didn't fully comprehend and appreciate the negative impact

2236
03:01:44,625 --> 03:01:48,625
both on the community and the environment. I wanna believe they were not willfully ignoring

2237
03:01:48,765 --> 03:01:52,395
it. I hope they needed only to be shown these facts to come to the same conclusion

2238
03:01:52,945 --> 03:01:56,915
that an outdoor shotgun range does not belong on walton road. Recall that I asked

2239
03:01:57,435 --> 03:02:01,395
everyone to be willing to compromise unless the health, safety and dignity of another person is at

2240
03:02:01,555 --> 03:02:05,195
stake. While the facts presented here prove that the health, safety

2241
03:02:06,255 --> 03:02:10,115
and dignity of the walton road community is exactly what's at stake. If vsp has granted this

2242
03:02:10,355 --> 03:02:14,115
permit, vsp should find another location that isn't guaranteed to be lethal

2243
03:02:14,515 --> 03:02:18,235
to their neighbors. Thank you again for your time and consideration. I'll be here all night.

2244
03:02:18,565 --> 03:02:21,685
happy to answer any questions. And

2245
03:02:23,285 --> 03:02:24,945
is there any slide you wanna see again, .

2246
03:02:27,715 --> 03:02:28,825
thank you. Thanks. Thank you.

2247
03:02:32,095 --> 03:02:32,385
next speaker.

2248
03:02:41,165 --> 03:02:45,065
my name's ryan ferrell, 28 20 sandy hook road. And I'm seating my

2249
03:02:45,225 --> 03:02:49,135
time to sarah lindeman. My

2250
03:02:49,355 --> 03:02:53,195
name is dan richardson, 2 8 7 jerry lane. I'm seating my time

2251
03:02:53,455 --> 03:02:57,185
to sarah lindeman. Julie

2252
03:02:57,645 --> 03:03:01,375
duff 4 9 7 8 winter lane and I'm seating my time to sarah lindeman.

2253
03:03:02,195 --> 03:03:03,385
set you. Yeah, thank you.

2254
03:03:14,925 --> 03:03:16,115
thank you. Appreciate it.

2255
03:03:20,095 --> 03:03:23,675
we go done. You have backward

2256
03:03:24,255 --> 03:03:26,915
and okay, great. Thank you so much. Mm-hmm

2257
03:03:28,625 --> 03:03:32,155
alright, good evening. My name is sarah lindeman and I live at 2 8 7

2258
03:03:32,755 --> 03:03:36,595
jerry lane. That is off of walton road. Um, I'm a resident

2259
03:03:36,795 --> 03:03:40,795
of louisa county, but my property abuts the lux stone property, which is divided as you

2260
03:03:40,955 --> 03:03:44,915
have seen along the louisa county gland county line. I have

2261
03:03:45,195 --> 03:03:49,115
13 years of professional experience in large scale wetland, environmental and land use

2262
03:03:49,275 --> 03:03:53,155
permitting as a professional. I have submitted, received approval and managed compliance

2263
03:03:53,745 --> 03:03:56,435
with numerous conditional use permits in virginia and other states.

2264
03:03:58,145 --> 03:04:01,965
the zoning code of the county section 1560 provides standards to use as guidelines.

2265
03:04:02,465 --> 03:04:06,365
as you have seen this evening, it states the establishment, maintenance, or operation

2266
03:04:06,885 --> 03:04:10,545
of the conditional use will not be detrimental to or endanger the public health, safety,

2267
03:04:11,145 --> 03:04:14,685
morals, comfort, or general welfare. I pause that there is not enough information

2268
03:04:15,545 --> 03:04:19,385
in this application or in the concept plan to ensure meeting the standard is

2269
03:04:19,845 --> 03:04:23,845
possible. And I will talk briefly about each criteria. I'm gonna try to move it a good clip, so I appreciate

2270
03:04:24,205 --> 03:04:28,125
your patience. Uh, safety first up, the concept plan does not

2271
03:04:28,245 --> 03:04:31,845
show any security measure measures or perimeter fencing. As we have discussed this evening.

2272
03:04:32,745 --> 03:04:36,665
the staff report suggests adding a condition that no trespassing signs must be posted and

2273
03:04:37,125 --> 03:04:41,125
maintained along all boundaries and warn of an active shooting range for an active shooting range

2274
03:04:41,365 --> 03:04:45,125
with 14 stations that point towards occupied residences or an interstate highway.

2275
03:04:45,795 --> 03:04:49,605
this is not acceptable. I urge the commission to require the applicant to prepare

2276
03:04:50,005 --> 03:04:54,005
a safety plan, which includes appropriate perimeter security and details, all measures

2277
03:04:54,405 --> 03:04:57,885
dedicated to safety for users and neighbors of the proposed range.

2278
03:04:58,865 --> 03:05:02,745
at the initial public meeting, the applicant showed a video from youtube on where to find the safety on

2279
03:05:02,965 --> 03:05:06,555
a shotgun. This is not an adequate substitution for a project-wide safety plan.

2280
03:05:07,385 --> 03:05:11,245
the applicant has not provided any comprehensive information to neighbors on what measures

2281
03:05:11,605 --> 03:05:15,465
they will put in place to keep our family safe from a public gun range adjacent to

2282
03:05:15,685 --> 03:05:19,205
our properties. Sections 1565 and 1566

2283
03:05:20,085 --> 03:05:24,085
relate to adequate access roads and ingress and egress with particular reference to vehicular

2284
03:05:24,325 --> 03:05:28,285
and pedestrian safety and convenience, traffic flow and control and access in case of fire or

2285
03:05:28,485 --> 03:05:32,245
other emergency while the applicant conducted a traffic impact analysis,

2286
03:05:32,545 --> 03:05:36,285
it does not consider the full access route from I 64 and excludes two intersections

2287
03:05:37,075 --> 03:05:41,005
through which 70% of the site traffic will travel. That is what is shown, uh, on

2288
03:05:41,205 --> 03:05:45,005
the screen behind you. The route in purple is what matches what's shown from the traffic

2289
03:05:45,345 --> 03:05:49,285
impact analysis conducted by vsp. What's shown in blue and yellow

2290
03:05:49,665 --> 03:05:53,605
are my assessments of how to get from 64 to the site. What you'll notice

2291
03:05:53,765 --> 03:05:57,235
here is that three chopped road connects to two 50 at the red circles.

2292
03:05:58,625 --> 03:06:02,565
the impact analysis stated that 70% of the traffic would be leaving the site

2293
03:06:02,685 --> 03:06:06,445
and turning left on the purple route. What happens after that

2294
03:06:06,845 --> 03:06:10,765
purple route ends is not included. Uh, my understanding is that 70% of

2295
03:06:10,885 --> 03:06:14,085
that traffic would then move on to access two 50 back to 64.

2296
03:06:15,065 --> 03:06:18,525
you can see here that neither of those intersections were included in the analysis.

2297
03:06:19,305 --> 03:06:22,985
uh, while vida was a part of that, I contend that this is not adequate and

2298
03:06:23,505 --> 03:06:27,115
uh, is a misrepresentation of the route the traffic will take to site.

2299
03:06:27,995 --> 03:06:31,925
this is a screenshot which you will also see from the plan that our neighborhood group

2300
03:06:32,225 --> 03:06:36,005
has prepared. This is one of those intersections. This is where three chopped road

2301
03:06:36,255 --> 03:06:40,155
meets, two 50 on the southern end. Um, and this

2302
03:06:40,445 --> 03:06:44,245
is a small southern, this is a small gas station and a market. It's a dangerous intersection

2303
03:06:44,685 --> 03:06:48,565
where many residents have already experienced, excuse me, near miss incidents and regularly

2304
03:06:49,085 --> 03:06:52,885
witnessed dangerous driving behavior. Residents have identified this as a concern

2305
03:06:53,105 --> 03:06:56,965
at every opportunity to speak publicly and it remains a significant cause of concern for many.

2306
03:06:57,645 --> 03:07:01,645
I urge the commission to require a revised traffic impact analysis, which includes both

2307
03:07:01,805 --> 03:07:05,565
of these locations and addresses the other deficiencies I have identified in my previous

2308
03:07:05,925 --> 03:07:09,845
comments to staff via email. The study this applicant furnished was also conducted on

2309
03:07:10,165 --> 03:07:13,925
saturday in the summer and did not account for weekday traffic during all proposed hours of operation

2310
03:07:14,445 --> 03:07:17,365
school bus routes or traffic associated with special events or tournaments.

2311
03:07:19,145 --> 03:07:23,085
morals, uh, there's a lot to be said here, but I would just like to point out that

2312
03:07:23,285 --> 03:07:26,905
the staff report shows several maps which show home locations, but it does not include louisa

2313
03:07:27,325 --> 03:07:31,285
county data. I recognize that I'm not one of your constituents, but I would also like to point

2314
03:07:31,445 --> 03:07:35,305
out that there are a number of homes and residences that may be impacted by

2315
03:07:35,525 --> 03:07:39,345
the proposed project for those of us in louisa county with no recourse to

2316
03:07:39,565 --> 03:07:43,475
provide more formal comment or work with our county to address our concerns. I've

2317
03:07:43,765 --> 03:07:45,885
reached out to louisa county and have never heard back from them

2318
03:07:47,935 --> 03:07:51,875
public health. The concept plan does not include enough information to determine whether

2319
03:07:52,175 --> 03:07:55,995
the project will have a negative impact on public health, either to immediate neighbors or those

2320
03:07:56,195 --> 03:08:00,155
in the downstream watershed. Nearly all the proposed shooting stations, as you have seen,

2321
03:08:00,315 --> 03:08:03,995
point directly into areas identified by a desktop gis analysis as wetlands.

2322
03:08:04,835 --> 03:08:08,675
wetlands are typically larger than what is depicted in these desktop analysis. So it's

2323
03:08:08,955 --> 03:08:12,675
impossible to determine the extent of any impacts to wetlands without a formal wetland

2324
03:08:13,115 --> 03:08:17,035
delineation in issuance of a jurisdictional determination by the us army

2325
03:08:17,235 --> 03:08:21,035
corps of engineers. Likewise, it's not possible to know the level of the water table

2326
03:08:21,415 --> 03:08:25,245
and potential groundwater impacts without a more specific study. This

2327
03:08:25,535 --> 03:08:29,415
is important because wetlands and acidic soils can cause accelerated leaching

2328
03:08:29,775 --> 03:08:32,975
of lead into surface and groundwater potentially impacting downstream water quality.

2329
03:08:33,915 --> 03:08:37,755
the epa issued a report in 2005 that includes best management practices for

2330
03:08:37,975 --> 03:08:41,935
lead at outdoor shooting ranges. It was prepared with support from the nra and the national

2331
03:08:42,615 --> 03:08:46,135
shooting sports foundation. It indicates that most human exposure to lead associated

2332
03:08:46,655 --> 03:08:50,655
with shooting ranges is through lead contaminated soil. It demonstrates that lead shot

2333
03:08:50,925 --> 03:08:54,495
shot particles or dissolved lead can be moved by stormwater runoff and dissolved

2334
03:08:54,975 --> 03:08:58,935
lead can migrate through soils to groundwater. Based on my review of

2335
03:08:59,095 --> 03:09:03,025
the usda web soil survey, most of the soils in the project site are acidic or sandy,

2336
03:09:03,585 --> 03:09:07,255
which means that they are more permeable and more susceptible to lead, leaching

2337
03:09:07,815 --> 03:09:11,455
and dissolving. The applicant, as we have seen, has not provided a lead mitigation

2338
03:09:11,975 --> 03:09:15,925
plan or provided any substantive details regarding long-term lead management on site,

2339
03:09:16,635 --> 03:09:20,495
nor have they proposed any best management practices in writing. Consistent with this epa

2340
03:09:20,855 --> 03:09:24,735
report, I urge the commission to require the applicant to prepare a robust

2341
03:09:25,055 --> 03:09:28,895
lead mitigation plan and to require them to incorporate the epas recommended

2342
03:09:29,765 --> 03:09:33,625
bmps. I also urge the commission to put conditions in

2343
03:09:33,785 --> 03:09:37,705
place similar to those in the ora pack cup, which you have heard about this evening, which required soil

2344
03:09:38,225 --> 03:09:42,065
sampling and asurity bond to cover the cost of lead removal from the shortfall zone

2345
03:09:42,305 --> 03:09:46,025
if the range ceases operations. Um, there's

2346
03:09:46,505 --> 03:09:49,505
a lot about the noise study that you have heard today. I have some further concerns.

2347
03:09:50,565 --> 03:09:54,165
um, I do not think this is a substitute for a thorough analysis conducted

2348
03:09:54,645 --> 03:09:58,625
by properly independent third party professionals. Uh, I urge the

2349
03:09:58,965 --> 03:10:02,325
planning commission to require the applicant to conduct a formal acoustic study following

2350
03:10:03,345 --> 03:10:07,245
io 1 7 2 0 1 1 20 18, which is

2351
03:10:07,525 --> 03:10:11,045
a study specific to noise from shooting ranges in residential neighborhoods.

2352
03:10:12,065 --> 03:10:16,045
the iso stands for the international organization for standardization and it's a

2353
03:10:16,125 --> 03:10:20,045
group of non-governmental experts, which regularly publish technical standards that are used across

2354
03:10:20,365 --> 03:10:23,885
industries. In my industry, it is the gold standard for acoustic studies,

2355
03:10:25,885 --> 03:10:29,815
comfort and general welfare. Uh, section 1562 of the code

2356
03:10:30,055 --> 03:10:33,695
states that the conditional use will not be injurious to the use and enjoyment of other

2357
03:10:34,175 --> 03:10:37,775
property in the immediate vicinity for purposes already permitted nor substantially

2358
03:10:38,575 --> 03:10:42,495
diminish and impaired property values within the neighborhood. The applicant has not prepared a formal

2359
03:10:42,975 --> 03:10:46,775
property values assessment other than what you have heard. So it is impossible to determine

2360
03:10:47,235 --> 03:10:51,135
if the use meets this standard. It is difficult to imagine a scenario

2361
03:10:51,265 --> 03:10:55,255
where living next to a public gun range, which operates from eight or nine in the morning until sunset,

2362
03:10:55,755 --> 03:10:58,775
six or seven days a week, would increase the value of any of our homes

2363
03:11:00,405 --> 03:11:04,265
at nearly all other public gun ranges in the commonwealth. The range was constructed first and homes

2364
03:11:04,425 --> 03:11:07,775
were built after the range was established. That is not the case here.

2365
03:11:09,675 --> 03:11:13,575
the applicant has stated that the property property will be used to host fundraising, corporate and

2366
03:11:13,775 --> 03:11:17,585
other special events. As I understand it, this is not a buyright use of land zoned

2367
03:11:17,975 --> 03:11:21,795
a one and it is an additional use case beyond the gun range. The

2368
03:11:22,175 --> 03:11:26,055
property is within a designated rural enhancement area as you have, as you know, which is

2369
03:11:26,495 --> 03:11:30,295
defined as low density residential ag forest or other uses which are not planned

2370
03:11:30,595 --> 03:11:34,535
for public or central utilities. While the range may utilize a septic

2371
03:11:34,775 --> 03:11:38,575
system, assuming they move past portable toilets, um, it is a

2372
03:11:38,895 --> 03:11:42,575
facility that will be open to the public and it will not be utilized as a residential

2373
03:11:43,415 --> 03:11:47,415
property for agricultural or for forest use. I contend

2374
03:11:47,695 --> 03:11:51,645
that there is not enough information in this application that the proposed public gun range will

2375
03:11:51,955 --> 03:11:55,535
not have a negative impact on existing residences in the immediate vicinity.

2376
03:11:56,315 --> 03:12:00,215
the applicant has also not provided any information on alternative sites that were assessed during

2377
03:12:00,575 --> 03:12:04,375
the purported years of development of this project. I urge the commission

2378
03:12:04,695 --> 03:12:08,695
to require the applicant to conduct a formal alternatives analysis, which considers

2379
03:12:08,975 --> 03:12:12,935
other sites of similar size and proximity to the interstate, which are further from

2380
03:12:13,215 --> 03:12:17,145
residences. In summary, I believe the planning commission must defer voting

2381
03:12:17,385 --> 03:12:21,185
on this application until the applicant can demonstrate that their proposed project does not violate

2382
03:12:21,605 --> 03:12:25,585
the ordinances. The burden of proof must be on the applicant to prove

2383
03:12:25,785 --> 03:12:29,345
that a public gun range immediately adjacent to family homes is not judgemental

2384
03:12:30,045 --> 03:12:34,025
to the health, safety, morals, comfort, or general welfare of those who were

2385
03:12:34,185 --> 03:12:38,185
here first. The proposed project does not meet the standard and the cep should not be

2386
03:12:38,545 --> 03:12:39,585
approved. Thank you.

2387
03:12:44,195 --> 03:12:48,035
if we could have mike liptak, joy haynes, josiah

2388
03:12:48,605 --> 03:12:52,605
donaldson, and daniel dalton to the podium and then

2389
03:12:52,765 --> 03:12:56,145
sitting in the first row. Amanda olson, sandra

2390
03:12:56,825 --> 03:13:00,385
bartel, heidi blaine, joseph bartel, shelby

2391
03:13:01,065 --> 03:13:03,585
gibson, douglas duff, and katrina dalton.

2392
03:13:19,775 --> 03:13:23,745
okay. Ready? Yep. Mike liptak. 2,400

2393
03:13:24,665 --> 03:13:27,625
cheney creek road and I'm gonna seed my time to dan dalton. Thank you.

2394
03:13:30,245 --> 03:13:33,545
joy haynes. 24 18 morning view drive. Seating my time to daniel dalton,

2395
03:13:36,885 --> 03:13:40,845
josiah donaldson, 180 horseshoe bend bumps virginia seating my time to

2396
03:13:41,525 --> 03:13:44,505
former us marine corps machine gunner dan dalton .

2397
03:14:27,995 --> 03:14:31,885
good evening, uh, madam chair and commissioners. My name is, uh, dan dalton. I live at,

2398
03:14:32,045 --> 03:14:36,045
uh, 46 21 walton road with my wife and soon to be six children,

2399
03:14:36,435 --> 03:14:40,215
roughly 500 yards from the boundary of vsp. Uh, first

2400
03:14:40,645 --> 03:14:44,305
I wanna thank the county officials and staff who are out on walton road this monday during

2401
03:14:45,235 --> 03:14:49,045
vsps, uh, uh, exp uh, shooting experience. It was, uh, great interacting with you, especially

2402
03:14:49,685 --> 03:14:53,285
during the 35 minute pause in the middle of the demonstration. Um, I genuinely enjoyed the conversations

2403
03:14:53,765 --> 03:14:57,485
we had. I was very thankful for it. Uh, just a little background on myself.

2404
03:14:57,785 --> 03:15:01,625
am I familiar with firearms? Like many of you, I was introduced to firearms at an early age

2405
03:15:01,865 --> 03:15:05,765
by my father and instructed on how to safely use them from shotguns to pistols

2406
03:15:06,165 --> 03:15:10,045
to rifles. I fired, uh, more types of guns than the average citizen due to my service in the marine

2407
03:15:10,205 --> 03:15:14,205
corps. Uh, I served from active duty from 2006 to 2010 with two

2408
03:15:14,485 --> 03:15:18,315
deployments to iraq at the december 20, uh,

2409
03:15:18,535 --> 03:15:22,495
2025 planning commission meeting, uh, and a corresponds with the county

2410
03:15:22,695 --> 03:15:26,615
officials. Walton road neighbors requested a formal sound study be conducted for any

2411
03:15:27,175 --> 03:15:31,175
official action is taken on vsps application in order to understand the impact of the

2412
03:15:31,335 --> 03:15:35,295
range noise, uh, that would be generated on the busiest days, particularly

2413
03:15:36,215 --> 03:15:40,175
weekends and tournaments. We received, uh, only the weekend before notice

2414
03:15:40,495 --> 03:15:44,455
from vsp that a shotgun demonstration, uh, would be conducted on site

2415
03:15:44,755 --> 03:15:48,735
by vsp on january 12th, that monday vsp is shooting

2416
03:15:49,165 --> 03:15:52,685
demonstration. Did not rep, uh, represent the type amplification or duration

2417
03:15:53,385 --> 03:15:56,765
of tournament gunfire that is rapid, successive simultaneous,

2418
03:15:57,545 --> 03:16:00,885
and lasts for hours. Their demonstration included only two firearms,

2419
03:16:01,585 --> 03:16:05,445
two locations and approximately 40 minutes of shooting a hundred rounds

2420
03:16:05,765 --> 03:16:09,515
in one location, 50 rounds in the other with no sound engineer on site.

2421
03:16:09,935 --> 03:16:13,925
there was no verifiable sound measurements that day. Their demonstration was

2422
03:16:14,125 --> 03:16:18,005
representative of your average next door neighbor running a single manual trap in

2423
03:16:18,205 --> 03:16:22,175
his backyard, not a fun shoot, which generates shotgun fire every

2424
03:16:22,525 --> 03:16:26,285
three to 10 seconds and dismisses the reasonable concerns of walton road

2425
03:16:26,725 --> 03:16:28,885
neighbors regarding the impact of 17 shotgun stations.

2426
03:16:31,045 --> 03:16:35,005
a demonstration for county officials that influences the decision making should have

2427
03:16:35,325 --> 03:16:39,165
demonstrated the standard case scenario for noise, not the lightest case scenario.

2428
03:16:39,745 --> 03:16:43,665
the county should not accept the january 12th shooting experience remotely representative of

2429
03:16:43,885 --> 03:16:47,085
what walton road neighbors will experience if this cup is approved.

2430
03:16:49,185 --> 03:16:53,165
the slide shows the approximate, uh, location. The vsp indicated live fire would originate

2431
03:16:53,565 --> 03:16:57,325
on january 12th. As you can see, the two marked locations are not even placed exactly

2432
03:16:57,725 --> 03:17:00,085
where the firing stations would be constructed. They're in the blue.

2433
03:17:05,835 --> 03:17:09,485
this slide shows vsps particulars. They confirmed by email they would be using only two shooters

2434
03:17:10,155 --> 03:17:14,045
with rounds fired from only two locations beyond specifying the size of ammunition, they

2435
03:17:14,245 --> 03:17:18,165
did not specify weight load or feet per second. I wanna be clear

2436
03:17:18,325 --> 03:17:22,285
again that vsp conducted what vsp conducted on january 12th is not a formal sound study

2437
03:17:22,825 --> 03:17:26,645
and is not a replacement for a formal sound study, uh, conducted by a licensed

2438
03:17:27,005 --> 03:17:27,005
engineer

2439
03:17:31,195 --> 03:17:35,125
from the onset of the demonstration. I recognize that vsp was using much lighter loads than what

2440
03:17:35,285 --> 03:17:39,085
walton road neighbors used for clay. Shooting on screen is a photo of the ammunition that vsp

2441
03:17:39,445 --> 03:17:42,965
showed the county during the demonstration. I wanna point out that the weight of the ammunition

2442
03:17:43,745 --> 03:17:47,485
is seven eighth ounces and the powder load is two and three quarters. Dr equivalent.

2443
03:17:48,585 --> 03:17:52,365
the weight of the ammunition is important as heavier weights, uh, produce louder

2444
03:17:52,735 --> 03:17:56,565
sound, especially when combined with higher dr. Equivalent vsb stated to

2445
03:17:56,765 --> 03:18:00,665
the county. This is the exact type of ammunition is used for clay, uh,

2446
03:18:01,345 --> 03:18:05,125
uh, shooting sports, which is true. It is equally true though that heavier

2447
03:18:05,485 --> 03:18:09,205
weight and more powerful load can be used, uh, with which produces

2448
03:18:09,765 --> 03:18:10,375
a much louder sound.

2449
03:18:14,285 --> 03:18:18,115
upon conclusion of esp shooting walton road neighbors asked the remaining officials in

2450
03:18:18,335 --> 03:18:22,215
the tenants, namely supervisor jonathan christie, uh, supervisor jonathan lyla, commissioner,

2451
03:18:22,715 --> 03:18:26,615
uh, martin dean and guin planner benjamin ellis, if they would listen to a few shots

2452
03:18:26,855 --> 03:18:30,615
fired from walden road neighbor, um, approximately the same distance away

2453
03:18:30,915 --> 03:18:34,445
as the closest proposed vsp shooting station to the closest family home roughly

2454
03:18:35,035 --> 03:18:38,695
600 700 feet away. Mr. Sonny williams fired several rounds

2455
03:18:39,095 --> 03:18:42,695
from two different types of ammunition representing a higher weight and low

2456
03:18:43,135 --> 03:18:47,005
capacity than vsps shooting experience. The difference in sound was apparent to

2457
03:18:47,205 --> 03:18:51,085
all who had in attendance and even vsp representatives remarked by, uh, to

2458
03:18:51,285 --> 03:18:55,285
commissioner, uh, guy, uh, kimberly, uh, who was on vsp land with them that

2459
03:18:55,545 --> 03:18:59,375
wal row neighbors were, and I quote, using much more powerful ammunition. Ammunition

2460
03:19:00,105 --> 03:19:04,105
was that, um, ammunition that the applicant state would not be used for sporting clays. End

2461
03:19:04,325 --> 03:19:07,605
quote. I wanna,

2462
03:19:08,655 --> 03:19:12,205
sorry, I wanna say it again. The heavier weight and higher, uh, load ammunition

2463
03:19:12,685 --> 03:19:15,505
fired mr. Williams can is used on clay shooting ranges.

2464
03:19:17,045 --> 03:19:21,005
a promise is not a plan. If vsps application is approved, it must be under strict condition.

2465
03:19:21,365 --> 03:19:25,245
it all ammunition must be purchased on site and that it must be the exact same

2466
03:19:25,665 --> 03:19:28,885
low noise ammunition. Uh, they state was used at their january 12th

2467
03:19:29,845 --> 03:19:33,735
shooting demonstration, shown as

2468
03:19:33,955 --> 03:19:37,715
the first of two ammunitions ty, uh, fired by mr. Williams. It is heavier weight

2469
03:19:38,035 --> 03:19:41,835
than vsps ammunition and produced a louder sound. Again, this can be used

2470
03:19:42,115 --> 03:19:46,015
with sporting clays shown

2471
03:19:46,385 --> 03:19:50,165
as a second type of ammunition fired. This can, this had both a heavier weight

2472
03:19:50,545 --> 03:19:54,475
and a heavier load than vsps and produced a louder sound. Again, this

2473
03:19:54,765 --> 03:19:56,045
can also be used for sporting clays.

2474
03:20:00,865 --> 03:20:04,335
what vs p used on january 12th is on the lighter end of, uh,

2475
03:20:04,935 --> 03:20:08,875
of what is used on clay shooting ranges versus the higher end as demonstrated by

2476
03:20:09,035 --> 03:20:12,795
walton road neighbors. What vs p use should be the standard written in the cup

2477
03:20:13,255 --> 03:20:17,195
if this application was to be approved. Nothing heavier, nothing more powerful,

2478
03:20:17,315 --> 03:20:17,775
nothing louder

2479
03:20:23,175 --> 03:20:27,145
tournaments, uchin county staff not in the report on packet

2480
03:20:27,485 --> 03:20:31,465
1, 3 4 and I quote the applicant states, mondays are the typical days for tournaments.

2481
03:20:32,125 --> 03:20:36,065
end quote, the county should condition the vsp cup restricts tournaments only to

2482
03:20:36,335 --> 03:20:39,245
mondays per the applicant's own statement and, uh,

2483
03:20:40,745 --> 03:20:44,465
restrict to more than six times per year with each calendar day on a multi-day

2484
03:20:45,075 --> 03:20:48,885
event counting as an individual unit, a two-day tournament would count as

2485
03:20:49,105 --> 03:20:53,105
two separate times. Additionally, no alcohol should be served or consumed anywhere

2486
03:20:53,225 --> 03:20:57,145
on site while range hours are in operation. Goin has, uh, restricted alcoholic

2487
03:20:57,865 --> 03:21:00,145
beverages on clay shooting ranges with the orax cup.

2488
03:21:07,105 --> 03:21:11,005
the county should condition that. V-s-p-c-u-p restricts special events on weekends. So

2489
03:21:11,125 --> 03:21:15,045
no more than six times per year with each calendar day. A multi-day event counting as

2490
03:21:15,245 --> 03:21:19,085
individual unit, a two day event should leave only four times

2491
03:21:19,465 --> 03:21:23,205
on the calendar year. Again, no alcohol should be served or consumed

2492
03:21:23,645 --> 03:21:24,765
anywhere on site during range hours.

2493
03:21:31,415 --> 03:21:35,395
the county should not accept or approve v-s-p-c-u-p until a modified concept plan is shot.

2494
03:21:35,635 --> 03:21:39,595
fall plan, plan be provided. Again, a promise is not a plan. Vsp must

2495
03:21:39,795 --> 03:21:43,785
revise their shot fall plan to correct the overlapping shot fall zones to ensure that

2496
03:21:44,115 --> 03:21:47,565
a 360 degree shot fall zone does not fall outside cup boundaries.

2497
03:21:48,395 --> 03:21:52,245
this accounts for human error, redundancy and safety parameters will ensure public safety.

2498
03:21:53,205 --> 03:21:57,085
a 360 degree shot fall zone should not cross cup boundaries. Property lines

2499
03:21:57,515 --> 03:22:01,305
include residence or roads. The shot fall zone, uh, should

2500
03:22:01,725 --> 03:22:05,325
not fall across or across or into wetlands. This is based on precedents

2501
03:22:05,885 --> 03:22:09,755
at other ranges such as cavalier and hanover and middlesex county ordinance.

2502
03:22:10,365 --> 03:22:11,905
regarding, uh, regarding outdoor ranges,

2503
03:22:15,035 --> 03:22:18,645
signage and fencing, the county should con condition perimeter fencing and signs

2504
03:22:19,265 --> 03:22:23,125
all around the shotgun range so that the axis is controlled to ensure the safety

2505
03:22:23,345 --> 03:22:27,285
of the public at large, including children. There are 35 homes within half a mile

2506
03:22:27,605 --> 03:22:31,035
vsp with over 20 children living in that area. Even rural middlesex

2507
03:22:31,645 --> 03:22:35,085
county has zoning ordinances requiring fences around gun ranges.

2508
03:22:40,065 --> 03:22:43,745
in conclusion, these conditions among others should be imposed on vsp

2509
03:22:44,085 --> 03:22:48,045
cup should it be approved. The ammunition specifications must be

2510
03:22:48,225 --> 03:22:52,225
no larger than seven and a half shot, no heavier than seven to eight ounces

2511
03:22:52,695 --> 03:22:56,025
shall not exceed two and three quarters drum equivalent velocity shall not exceed 1,160

2512
03:22:56,925 --> 03:23:00,785
feet per second. There shall be no more than six tournaments per year and only on

2513
03:23:01,005 --> 03:23:04,775
mondays. There are no more than six special or weekend events per year. There

2514
03:23:05,125 --> 03:23:09,125
should be no approval of the cup prior to a revised concept shot fall plan to

2515
03:23:09,325 --> 03:23:13,245
include setbacks from property lines, residence and public. Uh, roads. A

2516
03:23:13,365 --> 03:23:16,485
360 degree shot falls zone does not cross cup boundaries,

2517
03:23:17,485 --> 03:23:21,445
property lines, residence, public roads or across into wetlands. No shooting station

2518
03:23:21,725 --> 03:23:25,445
closer than 1000 feet to the nearest occupied home from any direction.

2519
03:23:26,135 --> 03:23:30,045
there should be perimeter fencing around the range for the safety of children, residents, and the general

2520
03:23:30,245 --> 03:23:32,925
public. Thank you for your time. Any questions?

2521
03:23:36,835 --> 03:23:38,165
okay, thanks. Thank you

2522
03:23:44,445 --> 03:23:45,305
ms. Dalton's group

2523
03:23:50,095 --> 03:23:54,015
matter honor. Good

2524
03:23:54,305 --> 03:23:58,175
evening. Uh, my name is douglas stuff. I own the home at 4 9 7 8

2525
03:23:59,545 --> 03:24:02,885
winter lane and I am seating my time to katrina dalton.

2526
03:24:07,795 --> 03:24:10,485
hi, my name is shelby gibson and I live at 4 3 9 5 3

2527
03:24:12,695 --> 03:24:16,575
bridge road, palatan, virginia, and I am conceding my time to katrina

2528
03:24:17,195 --> 03:24:21,095
dalton. Good evening. My

2529
03:24:21,315 --> 03:24:25,195
name is amanda olson. I live at 60 85 cartersville road in powhatan

2530
03:24:25,895 --> 03:24:27,375
and I'm seating my time to katrina dalton.

2531
03:24:30,535 --> 03:24:34,435
my name is heidi blaine. I live at 78 13 fern hollow drive in chesterfield, virginia.

2532
03:24:34,855 --> 03:24:38,855
I'm seating my time to katrina dalton. Hi, I'm sandra

2533
03:24:39,195 --> 03:24:42,635
bartel. I live at 2340 twin creeks lane in ens. I'm

2534
03:24:43,205 --> 03:24:47,035
my time to katrina dalton. Hi, I'm joe bartell,

2535
03:24:47,525 --> 03:24:51,285
2340 twin creeks lane maidens, virginia. I'm seating my time to katrina

2536
03:24:51,745 --> 03:24:51,745
dalton.

2537
03:25:27,425 --> 03:25:31,275
good evening, madam chair and commissioners. My name is katrina dalton and I live at 46 21

2538
03:25:32,135 --> 03:25:36,115
walton road. I've lived in the county for over 30 years and I appreciate the opportunity

2539
03:25:36,575 --> 03:25:40,435
to speak tonight. First of all, I recognize that it is not easy to mediate between

2540
03:25:40,875 --> 03:25:44,715
the competing interests of property owners and I wanna thank you for the time, consideration and

2541
03:25:44,915 --> 03:25:48,915
effort to read through the body of research that we've submitted to you, especially in our community

2542
03:25:49,375 --> 03:25:53,235
impact and site suitability report. This is an issue of property rights

2543
03:25:53,575 --> 03:25:57,515
and not even remotely a contention of second amendment rights. A majority of walton

2544
03:25:57,795 --> 03:26:01,735
road neighbors think that vsp has a good idea, but their proposed parcel is

2545
03:26:01,955 --> 03:26:05,475
insufficient and their layout negatively impacts existing property owners.

2546
03:26:06,635 --> 03:26:10,275
a good idea cannot justify a bad location, and this fact is supported by 245

2547
03:26:11,635 --> 03:26:15,515
residents of goochland louis and surrounding counties who've signed our petition just in

2548
03:26:15,715 --> 03:26:19,475
the last three months. Per gland county zoning ordinance chapter

2549
03:26:19,755 --> 03:26:23,405
15, a conditional use permit application must prove

2550
03:26:24,545 --> 03:26:28,175
that their permit will not be detrimental to or endanger the public health, safety,

2551
03:26:28,735 --> 03:26:32,545
morals, comfort, or general welfare. Their use will not be injurious

2552
03:26:33,155 --> 03:26:36,635
to the use and enjoyment of other property in the immediate vicinity for the purposes

2553
03:26:37,425 --> 03:26:41,145
already permitted. This is the standard by which the county must

2554
03:26:41,795 --> 03:26:45,555
evaluate whether to approve or deny this application on behalf

2555
03:26:45,875 --> 03:26:49,715
of walton road neighbors. I contend that vsb has not met this burden of proof.

2556
03:26:50,645 --> 03:26:54,435
their proposed use will be detrimental and will endanger the public health,

2557
03:26:54,675 --> 03:26:58,595
safety, comfort, and general welfare of our neighborhood, and it will be injurious to the

2558
03:26:58,715 --> 03:27:02,555
use and enjoyment of our properties for the following reasons, their stations are

2559
03:27:03,035 --> 03:27:06,795
positioned around the parcel perimeter with no setback or acoustic walls to buffer by

2560
03:27:07,275 --> 03:27:11,135
distance or barrier. Berm and vegetation provide little to no reduction of

2561
03:27:11,405 --> 03:27:15,275
sound. There are no conditions restricting ammunition type to be low noise.

2562
03:27:15,975 --> 03:27:19,925
the hours of operation are unreasonable and will diminish our ability to enjoy

2563
03:27:20,295 --> 03:27:24,235
our own properties. This endangers our safety, comfort, and general welfare

2564
03:27:25,645 --> 03:27:29,115
range. Users will be shooting over and into wetlands against epas recommendations

2565
03:27:29,795 --> 03:27:33,675
for outdoor ranges. This endangers the public health, safety and general

2566
03:27:33,915 --> 03:27:37,555
welfare. The shortfall zones overlap and have no reasonable setback

2567
03:27:37,995 --> 03:27:41,765
from property lines, public roads, and residences to mitigate consequences

2568
03:27:42,585 --> 03:27:46,525
of range accidents. There is no proposed perimeter of fencing to

2569
03:27:46,725 --> 03:27:50,645
keep out children who don't read signs, pets and the general public.

2570
03:27:51,475 --> 03:27:55,405
this endangers public safety. This application also does not preclude

2571
03:27:55,985 --> 03:27:59,965
lux stone from developing a quarry as already permitted. Cory blasts occur on

2572
03:28:00,285 --> 03:28:04,205
schedule and admittedly, nobody wants to live next to a quarry either, but at least I

2573
03:28:04,325 --> 03:28:08,325
can schedule around it. However, vsps own application has stated

2574
03:28:08,565 --> 03:28:12,105
that it will not prevent lux stone from having

2575
03:28:12,645 --> 03:28:15,535
a quarry, meaning that we will be subjected to both kinds of noise.

2576
03:28:17,405 --> 03:28:21,085
additionally, vsps application is incomplete as they referenced a soil study

2577
03:28:21,425 --> 03:28:25,125
on page five conducted by lux stone that was not submitted with their application

2578
03:28:25,785 --> 03:28:29,645
for county and public review. As proposed and conditioned

2579
03:28:30,355 --> 03:28:34,145
currently, the adverse impact of vsps proposal far outweighs any

2580
03:28:34,645 --> 03:28:38,645
supposed benefit to the greater community. Any net good would be at the expense of

2581
03:28:38,805 --> 03:28:42,645
immediate neighbors and does not remotely meet the standard in gland's zoning ordinance.

2582
03:28:44,185 --> 03:28:47,685
at a minimum, the county does not have sufficient information to make a decision

2583
03:28:48,385 --> 03:28:51,605
unless or until a professional sound study has been conducted

2584
03:28:52,985 --> 03:28:56,885
and submitted for us to review ahead of time along with yourselves

2585
03:28:57,785 --> 03:29:01,525
and an environmental impact survey which identifies wetlands and analyzes

2586
03:29:02,085 --> 03:29:05,925
lead impact on them. These studies must be conducted and reviewed

2587
03:29:06,415 --> 03:29:10,415
prior to considering the application. In december,

2588
03:29:10,595 --> 03:29:14,545
we requested a formal sound study. It seems that they may or

2589
03:29:14,665 --> 03:29:18,185
may not have done so. Uh, shooting off only 150 rounds doesn't

2590
03:29:18,745 --> 03:29:22,635
remotely represent what will occur on a fun shoot day where

2591
03:29:22,985 --> 03:29:25,865
you can have 1100 rounds going off per hour.

2592
03:29:28,845 --> 03:29:32,815
similarly, the county cannot assess the environmental impact of putting thousands of pounds of

2593
03:29:33,015 --> 03:29:36,775
lead into designated wetlands without a professional study. Uchin

2594
03:29:37,215 --> 03:29:40,935
required an esp plan for ora packs, a 2013 cup to which I'll

2595
03:29:41,295 --> 03:29:45,055
reference shortly, along with heavy bond requirements for lead mitigation

2596
03:29:45,535 --> 03:29:49,175
and cleanup. Hanover also requires it cavalier, along with

2597
03:29:49,815 --> 03:29:51,815
prohibiting their shooting over or into wetlands.

2598
03:29:55,195 --> 03:29:59,015
we share county staff's concerns regarding overlapping shot fall zones on the concept

2599
03:29:59,405 --> 03:30:03,335
plan, posing a danger to range users, but as currently proposed,

2600
03:30:03,455 --> 03:30:06,975
there's a general public safety danger as well. These shooting stations are located

2601
03:30:07,475 --> 03:30:11,415
on the perimeter of the cup boundary with no buffer into adjoining

2602
03:30:12,135 --> 03:30:16,135
property. A 360 degree shot fall, which would account for human

2603
03:30:16,385 --> 03:30:20,175
error, misfires or negligence must be contained

2604
03:30:20,755 --> 03:30:24,615
within cup boundaries and not permitted to cross property lines occupied

2605
03:30:25,015 --> 03:30:28,485
buildings or public roads. An updated concept

2606
03:30:29,125 --> 03:30:33,015
plan should not wait for pod submittal. This is

2607
03:30:33,215 --> 03:30:36,375
a safety issue that must be addressed prior to cup approval.

2608
03:30:37,655 --> 03:30:41,525
vsp stated earlier tonight that this isn't a gun range, but last I checked. When

2609
03:30:41,765 --> 03:30:45,445
you're shooting clays, you're using a gun. So this is semantics. Shotguns

2610
03:30:46,005 --> 03:30:48,835
are being used on this site. Safety should be the highest concern.

2611
03:30:51,625 --> 03:30:54,835
okay? Precedent exists in gland county to set reasonable conditions

2612
03:30:55,935 --> 03:30:59,195
for the protection of existing property owners. In 2013,

2613
03:31:00,185 --> 03:31:04,075
ghan approved a cup application for ora packs to operate a clay

2614
03:31:04,435 --> 03:31:07,685
shooting range on the back end of their 670 acres

2615
03:31:08,695 --> 03:31:12,645
at the farthest possible point from property lines, public roads,

2616
03:31:13,055 --> 03:31:15,985
or the closest neighbor who was situated 0.8

2617
03:31:17,165 --> 03:31:21,105
miles away. That's 4,224 feet away.

2618
03:31:22,455 --> 03:31:26,145
in contrast, vsp shooting stations are approximately 400

2619
03:31:26,745 --> 03:31:30,105
feet from the property line, 600 feet from a family home

2620
03:31:30,855 --> 03:31:34,775
and 50 to a hundred feet from interstate 64 or

2621
03:31:35,245 --> 03:31:38,985
apacs had inherently more buffering in their concept plan than

2622
03:31:39,435 --> 03:31:40,435
vsp has in theirs.

2623
03:31:43,565 --> 03:31:46,695
without explicitly conditioning setbacks for the cup

2624
03:31:48,005 --> 03:31:51,935
glin would be implicitly setting the precedent that any developer could

2625
03:31:52,135 --> 03:31:55,895
acquire an 85 acre parcel in glin to develop a range

2626
03:31:56,595 --> 03:32:00,495
and position. Its firing stations along the perimeter, no matter the range's

2627
03:32:00,895 --> 03:32:04,795
proximity to residences. Now gland has

2628
03:32:05,055 --> 03:32:08,135
codified setbacks for other uses, namely quarries.

2629
03:32:09,255 --> 03:32:13,165
considering that this property is already conditioned for a quarry, the same minimum setback

2630
03:32:13,935 --> 03:32:17,735
should be conditioned for vsp at least 1000 feet from

2631
03:32:18,015 --> 03:32:21,645
the nearest occupied dwelling. Per article 20 u standards, 15

2632
03:32:22,165 --> 03:32:26,015
dash 2 83 f. Other rural virginia counties have codified

2633
03:32:26,495 --> 03:32:30,055
similar setbacks a thousand feet from any residence per appomattox

2634
03:32:30,655 --> 03:32:34,375
and frederick 500 to a thousand feet from any property line

2635
03:32:34,975 --> 03:32:38,855
rappahannock in middlesex counties, 1000 feet from any water

2636
03:32:39,165 --> 03:32:43,055
body including creeks per middlesex county. These

2637
03:32:43,545 --> 03:32:47,285
are reasonable conditions imposed by other rural counties.

2638
03:32:48,155 --> 03:32:51,825
goochland will set precedent with this application either

2639
03:32:52,385 --> 03:32:56,015
by implicitly permitting conditions, in violation of zoning ordinances,

2640
03:32:57,225 --> 03:33:00,285
or by imposing conditions that uphold the zoning ordinance.

2641
03:33:03,725 --> 03:33:07,625
no other clay shooting range in virginia is open every day of the year as vsp requested,

2642
03:33:08,485 --> 03:33:12,225
or for as many daily hours. Gwin restricted

2643
03:33:13,005 --> 03:33:16,845
or apax is operation too seasonal, half a week and from 10:00 am

2644
03:33:17,565 --> 03:33:21,185
to 4:00 pm without also conditioning setbacks. Though

2645
03:33:21,815 --> 03:33:25,665
even limiting vsps hours to half a week during half the

2646
03:33:25,865 --> 03:33:29,665
year would be detrimental to the nearby homeowner who works night shift.

2647
03:33:30,565 --> 03:33:34,355
all of these conditions have to go together, setbacks, hours

2648
03:33:34,805 --> 03:33:37,395
of operation, and specifying ammunition.

2649
03:33:38,875 --> 03:33:42,785
okay. This combination of setbacks would start to

2650
03:33:43,005 --> 03:33:46,835
bring the dial closer to mitigating the noise nuisance upon

2651
03:33:47,405 --> 03:33:50,685
neighbors, but it would need to be confirmed by a professional sound study.

2652
03:33:51,965 --> 03:33:55,805
vsp should not be permitted to control the decibel levels for the majority of our days,

2653
03:33:56,375 --> 03:34:00,355
weeks, and months. As such, their

2654
03:34:00,675 --> 03:34:04,025
application should be conditioned by a noise abatement plan, including

2655
03:34:05,005 --> 03:34:08,995
noise monitoring at least twice a year at the property lines conducted by

2656
03:34:09,155 --> 03:34:12,755
a third party sound engineer. It should also be done when more than two

2657
03:34:13,915 --> 03:34:17,835
firearms are going off. It should be representative of a

2658
03:34:18,235 --> 03:34:22,115
standard or heavier range use stay permitted. Dbas of the

2659
03:34:22,395 --> 03:34:26,395
property line shall not exceed 55 dba per sound levels conditioned by uchin

2660
03:34:26,595 --> 03:34:29,915
county for the tod tz and november, 2025 as precedent.

2661
03:34:31,175 --> 03:34:34,955
in addition to uchin county precedent, similar conditions have been set by other

2662
03:34:35,395 --> 03:34:38,355
counties, including hanover county's conditions. For cavalier,

2663
03:34:42,565 --> 03:34:46,405
all the aforementioned conditions assume that a formal noise and environmental study proceed any

2664
03:34:46,785 --> 03:34:49,945
decision by the county. As vsp has not provided sufficient information

2665
03:34:50,925 --> 03:34:54,455
for uchin to make an informed decision about the application tonight,

2666
03:34:55,765 --> 03:34:59,745
and their submittal of information yesterday does not afford

2667
03:35:00,085 --> 03:35:03,755
the county or the public time to examine in detail without a formal noise

2668
03:35:04,105 --> 03:35:08,065
study, environmental study, and updated concept plan, the commission should defer their

2669
03:35:08,385 --> 03:35:12,265
vote. At a minimum, the county must impose conditions as the current application

2670
03:35:12,865 --> 03:35:16,865
is detrimental and endangers the health and general welfare of neighboring property

2671
03:35:16,985 --> 03:35:20,985
owners. Our presented conditions are reasonable and based on precedent in

2672
03:35:21,235 --> 03:35:25,065
gland, along with precedent and comparable counties. As a mother who spends the

2673
03:35:25,345 --> 03:35:28,965
majority of our days educating our soon to be six children at home, to

2674
03:35:29,385 --> 03:35:33,335
be responsible, considerate citizens, I ask that you would defer your

2675
03:35:33,905 --> 03:35:37,625
approval or deny it outright as being unsuitable for the proposed location.

2676
03:35:38,315 --> 03:35:41,705
thank you for your time. Thank you. Thank you.

2677
03:35:46,595 --> 03:35:50,375
if linda morris and lindsey steele could come to the podium

2678
03:35:51,195 --> 03:35:55,135
and then kent cantwell, rebecca steadman, heather cantwell,

2679
03:35:56,155 --> 03:36:00,135
dennis casner, paula patterson and stan patterson. Have

2680
03:36:00,335 --> 03:36:03,025
a seat in the front row. Okay.

2681
03:36:04,815 --> 03:36:08,715
hi, my name's linda morris. I'm at 4 1 2 5 clay morris

2682
03:36:09,025 --> 03:36:11,015
estates and I see my time to lindsey steele.

2683
03:36:14,105 --> 03:36:18,035
hi, I am lindsey steele. I live at 5 0 3 4 angel road.

2684
03:36:19,145 --> 03:36:22,885
um, and I thank you for allowing time again for me to speak.

2685
03:36:23,325 --> 03:36:26,955
I introduced myself in december to you and testified

2686
03:36:27,625 --> 03:36:31,515
to the acidic water in my home, and I'm 0.5 from

2687
03:36:31,805 --> 03:36:35,705
the range. I also would just like to add, I have two streams on my

2688
03:36:36,155 --> 03:36:40,005
land that feed into a pond that I share with my neighbor, the wearers.

2689
03:36:41,225 --> 03:36:45,005
um, and so there's one thing that I wanted to talk about

2690
03:36:45,315 --> 03:36:48,525
that bsp stated in both of its community meetings.

2691
03:36:49,635 --> 03:36:53,625
it's said very proudly led is legal. I'm

2692
03:36:53,875 --> 03:36:57,665
very happy to hear at least that the staff tonight, uh,

2693
03:36:58,405 --> 03:37:02,045
recognize the seriousness, but it concerns me that they so publicly

2694
03:37:03,435 --> 03:37:06,385
seem unconcerned with lead. Um,

2695
03:37:08,285 --> 03:37:11,805
I, so I teach at glen allen high school. I teach ceramics.

2696
03:37:12,905 --> 03:37:16,745
and so, um, my field of study has been, um, of

2697
03:37:16,965 --> 03:37:20,805
course with ceramics and glazes. And so when they said that,

2698
03:37:21,305 --> 03:37:25,115
it, um, definitely affects me. 'cause I know right away that lead

2699
03:37:25,465 --> 03:37:29,135
is not legal in ceramic glazes anymore. It's also not legal in pipes

2700
03:37:29,485 --> 03:37:33,445
in our home or paints. And I can probably find other things that

2701
03:37:33,645 --> 03:37:37,065
it's not legal in because people know already it's not

2702
03:37:37,705 --> 03:37:41,335
at all, um, good for humans. In fact, it's a cumulative

2703
03:37:42,055 --> 03:37:45,765
thing. So any heavy metal, um, that we

2704
03:37:46,065 --> 03:37:49,715
use. And when I have mixed glazes, I have to wear a respirator mask,

2705
03:37:50,155 --> 03:37:53,605
goggles, gloves, because any lead or heavy metal

2706
03:37:54,325 --> 03:37:58,125
exposure I get stays in my body, um, for my whole life.

2707
03:37:58,505 --> 03:38:02,485
you don't expel it and it, it lands in your soft tissues, which is mostly

2708
03:38:02,675 --> 03:38:05,485
your brain. So it's something that I have to stay careful,

2709
03:38:06,785 --> 03:38:10,605
um, with in my work. And then, um, to hear

2710
03:38:10,845 --> 03:38:14,055
that it would be in our environment, um, for recreation,

2711
03:38:15,105 --> 03:38:19,025
um, brings up that need and want that I brought up last time of

2712
03:38:19,305 --> 03:38:23,285
we need clean water. Um, and I feel like the speakers

2713
03:38:23,685 --> 03:38:27,485
tonight have pointed out the wetlands. Um, also the stream

2714
03:38:27,805 --> 03:38:31,335
that runs right through the property and feeds into the south anna river.

2715
03:38:33,305 --> 03:38:36,755
um, so one, um,

2716
03:38:37,565 --> 03:38:40,845
alternative that I've heard brought up, and I don't know anything about guns,

2717
03:38:41,635 --> 03:38:45,535
um, but I've heard about steel shooting or steel

2718
03:38:45,925 --> 03:38:49,895
bullets. Um, instead of lead bullets, I

2719
03:38:50,015 --> 03:38:53,895
just have to ask you to think very carefully. That doesn't seem like a very

2720
03:38:54,095 --> 03:38:57,885
good alternative because it is impossible to know

2721
03:38:58,275 --> 03:39:01,595
if people are actually following that rule rule or not. Um,

2722
03:39:02,875 --> 03:39:05,795
at henrico in henrico high school, um,

2723
03:39:06,915 --> 03:39:10,855
in henrico county and at glen allen high school, I am a bag searcher

2724
03:39:11,475 --> 03:39:15,375
for weapons in the mornings. And so, um, just the

2725
03:39:15,575 --> 03:39:19,505
thought of having to, even if they did put on a condition, someone going

2726
03:39:19,855 --> 03:39:23,615
through bags to check if they brought in lead bullets, it is just

2727
03:39:23,865 --> 03:39:27,775
impossible. I go through bags five days a week to see if anybody has brought a

2728
03:39:27,895 --> 03:39:31,895
gun into the school. And so that's a larger object. A

2729
03:39:32,015 --> 03:39:35,935
bullet is a smaller object, and I just know people are cheap. And if steel

2730
03:39:36,285 --> 03:39:40,165
bullets cost more, they're gonna go with lead bullets and they're gonna sneak it in. Just like

2731
03:39:40,585 --> 03:39:44,525
at the movies when you sneak in candy , people don't care if it's

2732
03:39:44,765 --> 03:39:47,545
a box of candy or bullets, like they just wanna save a dollar.

2733
03:39:48,985 --> 03:39:52,715
so I, um, just

2734
03:39:53,145 --> 03:39:56,845
ask you to really consider the lead in the environment.

2735
03:39:57,625 --> 03:40:01,585
and this is a little, um, word problem from, um, one

2736
03:40:01,805 --> 03:40:05,705
of our neighbors, but it, it should bring back school memories for you. Um,

2737
03:40:05,985 --> 03:40:09,735
so 17 shooting stations, two shots fired

2738
03:40:10,265 --> 03:40:13,755
per station per person. 12 gauge clay shot

2739
03:40:14,465 --> 03:40:17,645
has 1.25 ounces of lead shot per cartridge.

2740
03:40:18,915 --> 03:40:22,705
that is 42.5 ounces of lead per person making the

2741
03:40:23,165 --> 03:40:27,045
complete round of shooting stations. Let's say they have 15 people

2742
03:40:27,425 --> 03:40:30,965
per day shooting less on weekends, more on weekends,

2743
03:40:31,625 --> 03:40:35,605
on only 200 days of the year. We're ignoring the huge amount of people

2744
03:40:35,765 --> 03:40:39,255
that would be at tournaments. Take our 42.5 ounce

2745
03:40:39,825 --> 03:40:43,705
per lead person per person times 15 people times 200

2746
03:40:44,165 --> 03:40:45,505
days equals 127,500

2747
03:40:48,505 --> 03:40:51,255
ounces of lead per year, or 7,969

2748
03:40:53,885 --> 03:40:57,535
pounds of lead being put into the environment per year in that small

2749
03:40:57,915 --> 03:41:01,845
area. That's almost four tons of lead. With lead being

2750
03:41:02,185 --> 03:41:06,125
not safe at any level. How can this be safe per people living

2751
03:41:06,425 --> 03:41:07,885
in the area? Thank you for your time.

2752
03:41:12,245 --> 03:41:16,125
I'm dennis kaner. I reside at 4 9 9 4 double

2753
03:41:16,545 --> 03:41:20,265
eagle drive, louisa, virginia. I yield my time to stan

2754
03:41:20,585 --> 03:41:24,485
peterson. My name is

2755
03:41:24,645 --> 03:41:28,405
paula patterson. I live at 49 83 winter lane and I seed

2756
03:41:28,665 --> 03:41:29,595
my time to stan patterson.

2757
03:41:33,365 --> 03:41:37,295
rebecca steadman, 38 64 3 chop road gum springing

2758
03:41:37,975 --> 03:41:40,335
virginia. And I seed my time to stan patterson.

2759
03:41:42,765 --> 03:41:46,745
my name is heather cantwell. My husband kent cantwell couldn't be here, so I'm here in place of

2760
03:41:46,945 --> 03:41:50,865
him. I'm at 4 5 8 0 fox chase run in gum springing and I'm seating

2761
03:41:51,185 --> 03:41:51,945
my time to stan patterson.

2762
03:41:55,805 --> 03:41:59,285
well, my name is stan patterson. I live at 49 83 winter lane.

2763
03:42:00,235 --> 03:42:04,095
uh, we've lived there for 10 years and, uh, I would like to thank the planning, commission

2764
03:42:04,895 --> 03:42:08,855
planning and zoning and staff for the opportunity to speak in opposition to the proposed

2765
03:42:09,195 --> 03:42:12,895
gun range cup tonight I'd like to speak on the continuing environmental

2766
03:42:13,415 --> 03:42:17,335
concerns of noise and lead pollution. First, why I appreciate the effort by

2767
03:42:17,655 --> 03:42:21,495
vsp to provide a noise study by shooting shotguns from their site. This effort

2768
03:42:21,695 --> 03:42:25,415
in no way, no way, represents a professional sound evaluation by an acoustic engineer

2769
03:42:26,475 --> 03:42:30,315
on 12 on 1 12 26, I was in attendance from 10:00 am

2770
03:42:30,875 --> 03:42:34,285
to 11:30 am observing the shooting demonstration by vspi

2771
03:42:35,405 --> 03:42:39,005
used a class two, a weighted sound pressure measuring device from several locations

2772
03:42:39,575 --> 03:42:43,565
along the vsp and leandro property line. My device measured a maximum

2773
03:42:43,945 --> 03:42:47,355
of 76.9 decibels from the vsp demonstration. However,

2774
03:42:48,005 --> 03:42:51,865
I had no idea of the distance to the source elevation, the density of

2775
03:42:52,085 --> 03:42:55,645
the vegetation, the direction of the shooting, the size and type of shot,

2776
03:42:56,105 --> 03:43:00,075
and other critical factors necessary for an accurate evaluation. It's

2777
03:43:00,365 --> 03:43:04,365
my understanding post demonstration that vsp used 12 gauge two and three quarter

2778
03:43:04,595 --> 03:43:07,185
inch seven eights ounce lead load shells

2779
03:43:08,605 --> 03:43:12,325
research of typical tournament shooting indicates this is a much lighter load than normal

2780
03:43:13,025 --> 03:43:16,925
and one in an eight ounce load is most common. The sound characteristics are substantially

2781
03:43:17,525 --> 03:43:21,445
louder for a one in an eight ounce load. I was also present when mr. Williams

2782
03:43:22,245 --> 03:43:25,915
demonstrated his 12 gauge two and three quarter one in an eight ounce load

2783
03:43:26,705 --> 03:43:30,585
shells at approximately 450 feet from the source. My

2784
03:43:30,805 --> 03:43:33,485
device recorded a maximum 96.4 decibels.

2785
03:43:35,685 --> 03:43:39,045
vsp stated to channel 12 news that the shooting demonstration on 1 12 26

2786
03:43:40,065 --> 03:43:43,765
was professional. This statement's incorrect for truly accurate sound measurements.

2787
03:43:44,365 --> 03:43:48,015
vsp needs to provide an evaluation by an independent third party sound

2788
03:43:48,645 --> 03:43:52,565
analysis firm. That would include calibrated equipment, detailed sound production, and

2789
03:43:52,925 --> 03:43:56,845
reception maps and distances. The study would include wind relative

2790
03:43:57,165 --> 03:44:01,145
humidity, direction of shooting, trajectory of shooting elevations, and

2791
03:44:01,345 --> 03:44:05,145
trajectory of the shot and certification in the size and load of the shells used.

2792
03:44:05,905 --> 03:44:09,425
a professional port would show legal chain of custody and expert testimony

2793
03:44:10,275 --> 03:44:14,225
until this type of test is performed by vsp. Any sound propagation such as

2794
03:44:14,485 --> 03:44:18,485
the one on 1 12 26 remains only as conjecture and

2795
03:44:18,705 --> 03:44:22,405
should not be considered sufficient to address the concerns of the residence and

2796
03:44:22,825 --> 03:44:26,795
the comments and concerns from the planning and zoning. Secondly, lead

2797
03:44:27,085 --> 03:44:30,885
pollution and harm remains an extremely concerning issue

2798
03:44:31,165 --> 03:44:35,045
for residents and must be addressed before any action on this cop. We all

2799
03:44:35,245 --> 03:44:39,165
know that lead is a toxin with serious harmful consequences to humans and wildlife.

2800
03:44:39,795 --> 03:44:43,725
it's evident from the vsp concept site plan and from the gland planning

2801
03:44:43,815 --> 03:44:47,755
staff report that all but one of the shooting stations will shoot into or overshoot

2802
03:44:48,885 --> 03:44:52,435
wetlands and deep creek. A very real issue exists that

2803
03:44:53,045 --> 03:44:56,905
thousands of pounds of lead pellets per year will be deposited into the wetlands and

2804
03:44:57,125 --> 03:45:00,415
deep creek that bisect this property. Once these pellets,

2805
03:45:01,165 --> 03:45:04,925
once these lead pellets land and accumulate in the wetlands, creeks or streams, they

2806
03:45:05,215 --> 03:45:08,975
are considered hazardous waste by epa.gov. This property drains

2807
03:45:09,375 --> 03:45:13,175
into deep creek. The lead pellets can be moved from storm runoff with each rainfall

2808
03:45:14,165 --> 03:45:17,295
lead compounds can be dissolved and moved downstream as well as into the groundwater.

2809
03:45:18,635 --> 03:45:22,375
epa.gov states that lead in solution can move

2810
03:45:22,665 --> 03:45:26,205
miles through the ground, relatively unchanged regarding lead

2811
03:45:26,895 --> 03:45:30,725
vsp stated to channel 12 news that nothing leaves the property. This is also

2812
03:45:30,965 --> 03:45:34,605
incorrect. If the waters of deep creek leave the site, which they do continuously,

2813
03:45:35,835 --> 03:45:39,205
then the lead pollution in solution leaves the site and contaminate

2814
03:45:40,285 --> 03:45:44,125
contaminates waters and at and aquifers downstream. To date

2815
03:45:44,585 --> 03:45:48,105
the epas laws under the resource conservation and recovery act

2816
03:45:48,665 --> 03:45:52,465
and the clean water act specifically provides citizens the right to sue gun ranges

2817
03:45:53,035 --> 03:45:57,005
when the environment and human health are threatened, threatened being the key word here.

2818
03:45:58,125 --> 03:46:02,125
citizens do not have to wait to be poisoned by the lead pollution to engage epa and take

2819
03:46:02,285 --> 03:46:04,295
legal action under e-p-a-r-c-r.

2820
03:46:06,335 --> 03:46:10,005
a lead shot is regulated spent shot interlink entering waterways

2821
03:46:10,615 --> 03:46:14,095
or left in the environment is considered a hazardous waste and a pollutant

2822
03:46:14,635 --> 03:46:18,455
as written in section 7,002 and 7,003 of the rcra

2823
03:46:19,095 --> 03:46:22,895
statute. E-p-a-r-c-r-a applies to many phases

2824
03:46:23,295 --> 03:46:27,095
of this range operation because lead pts are a solid and or hazardous

2825
03:46:27,575 --> 03:46:31,005
waste and can present an actual or potential imminent and substantial

2826
03:46:31,695 --> 03:46:35,355
endangerment. Epa state epa state municipalities

2827
03:46:36,335 --> 03:46:40,035
or citizens groups can take legal action under the statutory provisions of rcra

2828
03:46:40,865 --> 03:46:44,065
against gun clubs for actual or potential environmental

2829
03:46:44,915 --> 03:46:48,715
damage during or even after the operation of the club. Again, citizens

2830
03:46:48,975 --> 03:46:52,675
do not have to wait to take legal action when there's a potential or imminent

2831
03:46:53,155 --> 03:46:56,795
environmental danger. The epa clean water act

2832
03:46:57,775 --> 03:47:01,295
prohibits quote, the discharge of any pollutants by any person

2833
03:47:01,965 --> 03:47:05,765
into the waters of the us without a national pollution discharge

2834
03:47:06,395 --> 03:47:10,065
and elimination system permit per epa

2835
03:47:10,465 --> 03:47:14,215
expended shot and target debris and including non-toxic

2836
03:47:14,825 --> 03:47:18,825
steel shot that inter wetlands streams and or waters of the us are defined

2837
03:47:19,265 --> 03:47:22,645
as pollutants as defined by the clean water act

2838
03:47:23,645 --> 03:47:27,345
per e-p-a-c-w-a. Any range who shot or target debris

2839
03:47:27,745 --> 03:47:31,325
enters wetlands, lakes, streams, or even guts that are frequently dry

2840
03:47:32,005 --> 03:47:35,905
but drain into wetlands or streams are subject to government and or citizen

2841
03:47:36,305 --> 03:47:39,425
lawsuits per e-p-a-c-w-a

2842
03:47:41,705 --> 03:47:45,665
shooting ranges must cease operations over wetlands and waterways. And it is essential

2843
03:47:46,145 --> 03:47:50,105
that those ranges design or change their direction of shooting to avoid shooting into

2844
03:47:50,385 --> 03:47:53,985
wetlands or waters of the us per epa comprehensive

2845
03:47:54,835 --> 03:47:58,555
environmental response compensation in liability act or rcla

2846
03:47:59,515 --> 03:48:03,155
epa states that shooting ranges may be liable for government costs incurred

2847
03:48:03,715 --> 03:48:07,235
during cleanup of ranges. Natural resource damages, health assessments

2848
03:48:07,835 --> 03:48:11,755
and health effects studies. As I mentioned in my earlier notes, I found instances

2849
03:48:12,205 --> 03:48:16,015
where lead cleanup in wetlands can cost as much as $150,000 per

2850
03:48:16,305 --> 03:48:19,795
acre, but this is a fraction of the cost for lead pollution downstream

2851
03:48:20,735 --> 03:48:24,075
and off of the vsp property and the damages to health safety welfare

2852
03:48:24,935 --> 03:48:28,765
of thousands of residents cleanup and damages here could be in the millions.

2853
03:48:29,915 --> 03:48:33,405
this c this rcla situation is where the term superfund

2854
03:48:34,005 --> 03:48:37,925
cleanup is typically found. It is my understanding that the liability for this

2855
03:48:38,085 --> 03:48:42,005
cleanup, the producer of pollution vsp, is responsible for all costs.

2856
03:48:42,865 --> 03:48:46,825
but as an l-l-c-v-s-p can declare bankruptcy, and since gland county is

2857
03:48:47,045 --> 03:48:50,485
aware of the lead situation at the time of c-o-p-c-u-p approval

2858
03:48:51,225 --> 03:48:55,165
may be considered negligent and gland county taxpayers will ultimately be responsible

2859
03:48:55,805 --> 03:48:59,545
for all cleanup costs. I will also state that all of the information

2860
03:48:59,865 --> 03:49:03,545
I've detailed above are fax taking from epa.gov best

2861
03:49:03,905 --> 03:49:07,825
management practices for lead at shooting ranges and epa.gov superfund

2862
03:49:08,385 --> 03:49:11,535
liability in conclusion regarding noise,

2863
03:49:12,455 --> 03:49:16,255
vsp has not provided any realistic professional sound study that will alleviate the concerns

2864
03:49:16,695 --> 03:49:20,565
of undue harm to health, safety, and welfare of adjacent residents regarding

2865
03:49:21,245 --> 03:49:24,775
lead pollution and poisoning. Due to the potential serious epa violations

2866
03:49:25,835 --> 03:49:29,675
and impacts, vsp cannot build this gun range on this piece of property. The

2867
03:49:30,015 --> 03:49:33,775
shooting stations cannot be built so as not to pollute the wet, pollute the wetlands

2868
03:49:34,295 --> 03:49:38,295
and streams. There simply isn't enough land. The property is too small for the proposed

2869
03:49:38,515 --> 03:49:42,015
use. The wetlands cannot be avoided with 17 overlapping

2870
03:49:42,565 --> 03:49:46,215
shot fall zones as shown on the planning and zoning report. Regardless of the direction

2871
03:49:46,655 --> 03:49:50,525
vsp may try to show this proposed use clearly violates laws

2872
03:49:50,765 --> 03:49:54,665
of the epa, the resource conservation recovery act, the clean water act,

2873
03:49:55,105 --> 03:49:59,085
and if approved, will undoubtedly be subject to legal action under the comprehensive environmental

2874
03:50:00,085 --> 03:50:03,825
response compensation and liability act. Why would gland

2875
03:50:04,175 --> 03:50:08,095
county even begin to enjoin themselves in a potentially legal

2876
03:50:08,715 --> 03:50:12,635
act, illegal act by approving this cup? But

2877
03:50:13,055 --> 03:50:16,915
regardless of the facts I've just read, who is

2878
03:50:17,245 --> 03:50:20,855
okay with children having to wear hearing protection just to play in their yard?

2879
03:50:21,925 --> 03:50:25,705
and who wants to take the risk, the real and potential lead poisoning

2880
03:50:26,225 --> 03:50:29,905
of residents and children when lead toxins emerge in their drinking water and aquifer?

2881
03:50:30,985 --> 03:50:34,855
thank you very much for your opportunity to, to oppose this cup

2882
03:50:35,875 --> 03:50:39,515
and if anybody has any questions, I'll be glad to try to answer them.

2883
03:50:41,595 --> 03:50:44,525
thank you. Okay,

2884
03:50:45,915 --> 03:50:49,595
if we could have bridget taylor, ian smith and brandy sisson

2885
03:50:50,045 --> 03:50:53,525
come to the podium and then waiting on the front row. Justin lagerfeld,

2886
03:50:54,535 --> 03:50:58,295
courtney edwards, kyle edwards, robin larson,

2887
03:50:59,145 --> 03:51:02,645
kevin larson, kathy edi, and bob lippers.

2888
03:51:09,435 --> 03:51:12,965
my name is ian smith at 5 0 2 4 ang road.

2889
03:51:13,575 --> 03:51:15,415
I am seating my time to brandy sissen.

2890
03:51:18,345 --> 03:51:22,285
my name is bridget taylor. I live at 50 24 ain road. I'm seating

2891
03:51:22,605 --> 03:51:23,565
my time to brandy sissen.

2892
03:51:28,155 --> 03:51:31,295
hi, I'm brandy sissen. I live at 5 0 2 6

2893
03:51:32,595 --> 03:51:36,495
ain road within a, within a half a mile of the proposed site for virginia sports park.

2894
03:51:37,155 --> 03:51:41,025
I'm an accountant, so I'm going to share some numbers with you for

2895
03:51:41,325 --> 03:51:45,325
a sporting clay tournament. Once a sh once a shooter steps up to the

2896
03:51:45,605 --> 03:51:49,335
shooting station, they have 20 seconds to call for a target. And between shots

2897
03:51:50,405 --> 03:51:54,245
and between shots, assuming a bare minimum of one target at

2898
03:51:54,465 --> 03:51:58,265
the maximum allowable time, each shooter will fire three times a minute.

2899
03:51:59,335 --> 03:52:02,045
this will happen at all 15 state stations simultaneously.

2900
03:52:05,055 --> 03:52:08,705
this very conservative estimate of three shots a minute at 15 stations

2901
03:52:09,495 --> 03:52:13,245
with the proposal of 8.75 hours in winter

2902
03:52:13,665 --> 03:52:16,685
at the earliest sunset of the year, means that 23,625

2903
03:52:18,845 --> 03:52:22,805
shots will be fired that day. An argument could be made that the

2904
03:52:22,965 --> 03:52:26,525
tournament won't run from open to close or that attendance won't be consistent

2905
03:52:27,445 --> 03:52:31,385
constant the whole time. Of course, that is likely to be true at, at

2906
03:52:31,605 --> 03:52:35,545
least until loca the location becomes popular enough to warrant all day

2907
03:52:36,785 --> 03:52:40,405
or multi-day tournaments, which is what any commercial gun range is incentivized

2908
03:52:41,205 --> 03:52:44,995
to achieve. It also doesn't factor in travel

2909
03:52:45,235 --> 03:52:49,235
time between stations or lulls between shooters, but again, as a courtesy

2910
03:52:49,435 --> 03:52:53,305
to other participants, moving quickly at moving quickly at

2911
03:52:53,585 --> 03:52:57,575
and between stations is encouraged. So to be generous, let's

2912
03:52:57,925 --> 03:53:01,725
assume half the number of shots are fired. That's still more than 10,000

2913
03:53:02,375 --> 03:53:06,255
shots per day during winter hours during the

2914
03:53:06,475 --> 03:53:10,275
summer when operating hours are at their longest and attendance is likely

2915
03:53:11,335 --> 03:53:15,155
to be at its peak, taking all of those minimums of three shots per minute,

2916
03:53:15,465 --> 03:53:19,395
15 stations, 12.75 business hours. That gives us 34,425

2917
03:53:22,045 --> 03:53:25,955
shots. If we cut that in half 17,212 shots

2918
03:53:26,335 --> 03:53:30,115
per day, that's an overwhelming number of shots and

2919
03:53:30,515 --> 03:53:34,055
that's near the minimum. My husband and I recently attended

2920
03:53:34,855 --> 03:53:38,575
a, a national sporting clays association registered fun shoot,

2921
03:53:39,145 --> 03:53:43,055
which is a more relaxed non tournament event at central virginia

2922
03:53:43,215 --> 03:53:46,655
sporting clays on sunday, january 11th. They have 14 stations,

2923
03:53:47,355 --> 03:53:49,775
one less than vp vsps proposed 15,

2924
03:53:51,555 --> 03:53:55,555
and they weren't using at least one station that we could see from the parking lot

2925
03:53:55,825 --> 03:53:59,735
where we stayed. There were about 10 vehicles in the lot

2926
03:53:59,895 --> 03:54:03,795
with another four in the truck with trailer lot, no

2927
03:54:04,015 --> 03:54:07,975
telling how many were employees versus attendees. We sat in

2928
03:54:08,135 --> 03:54:12,025
the car for from about one 50 to two 2:10 pm which

2929
03:54:12,375 --> 03:54:16,195
would have been about halfway through that day's, shooting hours of 12

2930
03:54:17,035 --> 03:54:20,655
to 4:30 pm we recorded for about 15 to 20 minutes.

2931
03:54:21,395 --> 03:54:25,245
as we drove up, we started to hear the shots around a half a mile

2932
03:54:25,445 --> 03:54:29,225
away through trees and around a corner over

2933
03:54:29,515 --> 03:54:33,405
the 20 or so minutes we recorded the average rate of shots fired

2934
03:54:34,135 --> 03:54:37,715
was one every three seconds or about 20 per minute.

2935
03:54:38,935 --> 03:54:42,875
at about at 8.75 operating hours proposed

2936
03:54:42,995 --> 03:54:46,955
by vsp we're looking at 10,500 shots. Imagine if this

2937
03:54:47,175 --> 03:54:50,835
had been an actual tournament with full attendance. Vsp

2938
03:54:51,415 --> 03:54:55,205
is proposing to subject at a minimum of three dozen family homes

2939
03:54:55,555 --> 03:54:59,495
within a half a mile of to this experience on a regular basis for

2940
03:54:59,715 --> 03:55:03,605
eight or more hours a day, and likely many of the other 90

2941
03:55:03,895 --> 03:55:07,865
homes within a one mile of the shooting range. No

2942
03:55:08,085 --> 03:55:10,885
one should be forced to live like this, like that.

2943
03:55:12,405 --> 03:55:16,305
I'm going to use the remainder of my time to play for you. Um, what that

2944
03:55:16,705 --> 03:55:20,525
demonstration might sound like. Um, what a low key

2945
03:55:21,025 --> 03:55:24,835
modestly attended event, a full 30 minutes south of zion cross roads

2946
03:55:25,445 --> 03:55:28,425
is likely to, uh, is like in reality.

2947
03:56:49,345 --> 03:56:53,345
I stopped it. Okay. If I had, I was trying to find out how much was left

2948
03:56:53,505 --> 03:56:57,425
on it, so it stopped. I'll, I'll move on. I counted 36 shots in that, in that

2949
03:56:57,545 --> 03:57:01,175
video. That should have been an hour, uh, one minute and 40 seconds long.

2950
03:57:01,725 --> 03:57:04,985
put another way a shot on average, not that it's a statistically

2951
03:57:05,885 --> 03:57:09,255
valid measurement. Um, every 1.66

2952
03:57:10,545 --> 03:57:13,995
seconds a shot was fired. I ask you,

2953
03:57:14,835 --> 03:57:18,195
I ask that you do not recommend a gun range at this location.

2954
03:57:19,415 --> 03:57:23,225
and since I still have some time, I'm gonna comment on

2955
03:57:23,485 --> 03:57:26,885
a couple of things. By definition, this is much closer

2956
03:57:27,545 --> 03:57:31,455
to a gun range than a golf course, um, which

2957
03:57:31,805 --> 03:57:35,525
is how they keep referring to it. Um, as I'm also gonna

2958
03:57:35,995 --> 03:57:39,845
note here, I that this nonprofit

2959
03:57:40,585 --> 03:57:44,245
or for a nonprofit to say community so many times as they,

2960
03:57:44,625 --> 03:57:48,525
as they approach us this board and talk about their, their intentions,

2961
03:57:49,315 --> 03:57:52,325
they didn't once knock on a neighbor's door to, to discuss

2962
03:57:54,225 --> 03:57:57,815
their plans. Thank you. And I'm sorry about

2963
03:57:58,255 --> 03:58:02,155
my video, . I could send

2964
03:58:02,355 --> 03:58:04,115
it to you though if you want. Thank you. Okay, .

2965
03:58:09,695 --> 03:58:13,355
um, justin lagerfeld, courtney

2966
03:58:13,745 --> 03:58:14,345
edwards. Kyle edwards.

2967
03:58:17,895 --> 03:58:21,835
hi, my name's justin lagerfeld. I was gonna, uh, see my time with kyle, but uh, he said it's okay.

2968
03:58:22,455 --> 03:58:26,285
it was okay with you. I'd like to speak very briefly. That's fine. Can you state your address please? 800

2969
03:58:26,835 --> 03:58:30,145
rockford road and your name again? One more time. I'm sorry. Sorry. Justin lagerfeld.

2970
03:58:32,445 --> 03:58:36,385
the words of our lord jesus christ from his sermon on the mount. Um, the gospel

2971
03:58:36,585 --> 03:58:40,405
according to matthew. So whatever you wish that

2972
03:58:40,685 --> 03:58:44,565
others would do to you, do also to them. For this is the law

2973
03:58:44,765 --> 03:58:48,435
and the prophets enter by the narrow gate for the gate is wide

2974
03:58:49,105 --> 03:58:52,965
and the way it's easy that leads to destruction and those who enter by it are many

2975
03:58:53,855 --> 03:58:57,755
for the gate is narrow and the way it's hard that leads to life and those who

2976
03:58:57,955 --> 03:58:58,675
find it a few.

2977
03:59:11,645 --> 03:59:14,905
all right. I'm kyle edwards. I live at 4 6 0 2

2978
03:59:15,965 --> 03:59:19,825
walton road. Um, I'm roughly 1200 feet from the closest

2979
03:59:20,345 --> 03:59:23,625
shooting station. That's about, um, the entrance to the parking lot here

2980
03:59:24,605 --> 03:59:26,845
to just out of the roundabout. Um,

2981
03:59:29,125 --> 03:59:32,875
I was on a s***t shooting team at my middle school and high school. Um, I've

2982
03:59:33,165 --> 03:59:37,145
shot thousands of rounds. I've never used seven eight ounce. I she

2983
03:59:37,365 --> 03:59:41,245
like was used in the demonstration. Um, always used, uh, one in

2984
03:59:41,405 --> 03:59:45,255
the eighth. Um, anyway, um,

2985
03:59:47,615 --> 03:59:51,405
god's blessed me and my wife with two sons and, um, we plan on homeschooling.

2986
03:59:52,005 --> 03:59:55,945
we spent a lot of time outside at the house and, you

2987
03:59:56,165 --> 04:00:00,045
know, I really look forward to my sons getting older, teach 'em how

2988
04:00:00,205 --> 04:00:04,045
to shoot, taking 'em, s***t, shooting, taking 'em hunting. But I would never take

2989
04:00:04,445 --> 04:00:08,315
'em to a, to a shooting range or a sporting clays facility

2990
04:00:08,985 --> 04:00:12,955
that close to houses. Um, reason being, I feel like

2991
04:00:13,155 --> 04:00:17,075
I would be, uh, a little hypocritical if I taught him, you know,

2992
04:00:17,495 --> 04:00:21,085
to love your neighbor as yourself. And then I did that.

2993
04:00:21,985 --> 04:00:24,225
it just doesn't, doesn't seem right. But, um,

2994
04:00:28,085 --> 04:00:32,065
as katrina mentioned, the uh, goon county ordinance

2995
04:00:33,085 --> 04:00:36,165
for, um, cup applicants states that, um,

2996
04:00:37,765 --> 04:00:41,665
the establishment, uh, establishment, maintenance or operation of the conditional use will not

2997
04:00:41,825 --> 04:00:45,625
be detrimental to or endanger of the public health, safety, morals, comfort,

2998
04:00:46,085 --> 04:00:49,545
or general welfare. And this conditional use will not be injurious

2999
04:00:50,445 --> 04:00:54,385
to the use and enjoyment of other property and the immediate vicinity for the

3000
04:00:54,545 --> 04:00:58,345
purposes already permitted. And I just don't see how that could be.

3001
04:00:58,805 --> 04:01:02,475
um, this would go with that being that, um, there

3002
04:01:02,825 --> 04:01:06,645
are homes so close to the proposed facility, um, as mr.

3003
04:01:07,045 --> 04:01:10,825
sisson, um, showed on his graphic. Dsp would be

3004
04:01:11,365 --> 04:01:15,265
the only, um, sport and clays facility with any houses within

3005
04:01:15,865 --> 04:01:19,355
a quarter mile. All six other facilities had

3006
04:01:19,885 --> 04:01:23,195
zero. Um, we would have 10,

3007
04:01:24,275 --> 04:01:27,815
within a half a mile. We would have 35 houses

3008
04:01:28,395 --> 04:01:30,755
within the facility. Um,

3009
04:01:33,915 --> 04:01:37,645
there's three that has zero, one that has eight, one that has four, and one that has three.

3010
04:01:38,745 --> 04:01:42,685
so, um, just on that alone, uh, I think

3011
04:01:42,845 --> 04:01:46,725
it speaks volumes. Um, I would ask that y'all don't approve in this

3012
04:01:47,125 --> 04:01:50,685
location. I hope they find a better location 'cause I would like to have, uh, somewhere

3013
04:01:51,165 --> 04:01:55,085
local to take my son, but it just isn't it. Thank y'all. Thank you.

3014
04:01:59,175 --> 04:02:03,135
robin larson, kevin larson, excuse

3015
04:02:03,555 --> 04:02:07,535
me. Robin larson. I'm gonna try really hard. 4 6 3 8 walton

3016
04:02:07,955 --> 04:02:10,835
road and I'm seating my time to him. You don't want to hear me speak tonight.

3017
04:02:18,355 --> 04:02:22,085
good evening, madam chairman and commissioners, or maybe I should say goodnight given the time.

3018
04:02:22,505 --> 04:02:26,005
my name is kevin larson and I live at 4 6 3 8 walton road.

3019
04:02:26,835 --> 04:02:30,645
I've resided in gland for more than 30 years, and on

3020
04:02:30,845 --> 04:02:34,735
walton road for over 25. My family has adopted

3021
04:02:35,235 --> 04:02:38,655
walton road and three chopped road as part of the vdot adopt a highway program

3022
04:02:39,555 --> 04:02:43,025
for almost 25 years. We have raised six children in gland

3023
04:02:43,835 --> 04:02:47,255
and soon seven of our 11 grandchildren will call walton road

3024
04:02:47,845 --> 04:02:51,455
home. I'm very thankful for the opportunity to speak tonight.

3025
04:02:52,735 --> 04:02:56,095
I plan to touch on the youth aspect of the, uh, vsp plan.

3026
04:02:57,335 --> 04:03:01,075
vsp has stated that their facilities will be a benefit to the youth of gland and

3027
04:03:01,575 --> 04:03:05,175
possibly other counties in their request and in testimonials from supporters.

3028
04:03:05,935 --> 04:03:09,415
vsp has positioned this as a benefit to the children of the county,

3029
04:03:10,355 --> 04:03:14,295
but they failed to make a compelling case. I'm gonna touch on

3030
04:03:14,455 --> 04:03:18,165
two areas. You, um, organizational usage. Vsp

3031
04:03:18,845 --> 04:03:22,565
received a wonderful endorsement from scouting america. Former formerly bsa

3032
04:03:23,745 --> 04:03:27,625
recent news reports indicate that scouting america is looking to

3033
04:03:27,865 --> 04:03:31,725
do some improvements to their current facilities in gland. Why would

3034
04:03:32,005 --> 04:03:35,725
a nonprofit like scouting america invest so much in their own facilities

3035
04:03:36,625 --> 04:03:39,475
and then utilize a different location at an added cost

3036
04:03:41,515 --> 04:03:45,385
trail? Life of america, which is another youth scouting organization. And there

3037
04:03:45,625 --> 04:03:49,625
are, there's at least one troop in gland and one in, uh, the very

3038
04:03:49,785 --> 04:03:53,565
extreme western end of henrico county have

3039
04:03:53,855 --> 04:03:57,835
over 40 young men. Neither one of these troops are planning to

3040
04:03:58,485 --> 04:04:02,215
haul these children out to haydenville to use this facility.

3041
04:04:03,695 --> 04:04:07,275
american heritage girls, which is a, a similar organization, uh,

3042
04:04:08,135 --> 04:04:12,135
focusing on girls. There are two, again, two troops with over a hundred young

3043
04:04:12,415 --> 04:04:15,165
ladies. They won't be using the facility.

3044
04:04:16,615 --> 04:04:20,505
where are these supposed children coming from? Well, when

3045
04:04:20,665 --> 04:04:24,185
you look at the hours of operation, it's gonna be very difficult. The vsp

3046
04:04:24,905 --> 04:04:28,865
facility will have much of its operating time while uchin students are in classes.

3047
04:04:30,135 --> 04:04:33,965
will the school bus students for almost 20 minutes out

3048
04:04:34,185 --> 04:04:38,185
to haydenville to use the facilities for a pe class and then

3049
04:04:38,335 --> 04:04:41,835
bust them back that's not gonna fit into a school day?

3050
04:04:42,475 --> 04:04:46,255
are they gonna use it for after school things? I just think of the parents that

3051
04:04:46,495 --> 04:04:50,335
have maybe a, an older son in, in football, a

3052
04:04:50,615 --> 04:04:54,575
a daughter playing field hockey, and then their third child wants to be involved in the

3053
04:04:54,815 --> 04:04:58,415
shooting. There is no way they can make all these trips around the county. It just isn't

3054
04:04:58,935 --> 04:05:02,615
feasible. I appreciate that they want to provide something for the children.

3055
04:05:03,885 --> 04:05:07,795
this just doesn't make sense logistically. In short, the

3056
04:05:08,015 --> 04:05:11,505
recommended benefit to the children is a shira.

3057
04:05:13,115 --> 04:05:17,005
as others have noted, there are many children in the immediate area of vsps

3058
04:05:17,295 --> 04:05:20,835
facilities. Those children already have access to private gun ranges

3059
04:05:21,395 --> 04:05:25,355
to utilize under direct family supervision. The opera, the

3060
04:05:25,645 --> 04:05:28,995
archery range is the only portion that may see any neighborhood use.

3061
04:05:30,295 --> 04:05:34,075
I, for one, am very interested in the archery range in vsp

3062
04:05:34,415 --> 04:05:38,215
cup application, they were required to reply, I believe it's

3063
04:05:38,615 --> 04:05:42,535
question number five. And on the, the, um, it was page seven, I believe,

3064
04:05:42,775 --> 04:05:46,295
of their, their submittal on imp, uh, statement about the

3065
04:05:46,815 --> 04:05:50,475
impact to adjacent properties. Instead of doing so,

3066
04:05:51,645 --> 04:05:54,815
bp's application talked about hope for benefits to the county,

3067
04:05:56,115 --> 04:05:58,495
did not state anything about the adjacent properties.

3068
04:06:00,495 --> 04:06:03,715
now, I worked first, uh, 10 years, uh, of my career

3069
04:06:04,775 --> 04:06:08,675
at air force geophysics lab and the remaining 30 or so

3070
04:06:08,835 --> 04:06:12,655
years at a large banking corporation that has

3071
04:06:12,925 --> 04:06:16,915
facilities here in gland. We won't say which one. Uh, and I was in their risk

3072
04:06:17,205 --> 04:06:21,195
department. And one of the things that has been talked about amongst,

3073
04:06:21,825 --> 04:06:25,285
um, federal regulations is something called disparate treatment.

3074
04:06:26,745 --> 04:06:30,565
and I'm wondering to what extent do, um, cup

3075
04:06:31,005 --> 04:06:34,505
applications fail to answer questions? And

3076
04:06:35,265 --> 04:06:39,115
to what extent do does our community government hold

3077
04:06:39,405 --> 04:06:43,225
them to answering those questions properly? So I'm

3078
04:06:43,445 --> 04:06:47,085
respectfully asking the planning commission to either and hopefully reject

3079
04:06:47,485 --> 04:06:51,185
the cup application altogether due to its

3080
04:06:51,565 --> 04:06:55,385
incomplete submissions, or to at least require vsp to address the

3081
04:06:55,605 --> 04:06:59,465
issues being raised by the adjacent property owners. And to

3082
04:06:59,845 --> 04:07:03,805
thoroughly complete the required items on the cup madam chair

3083
04:07:04,265 --> 04:07:08,165
and commissioners, thank you for your services to our, our community, and for your attention

3084
04:07:08,525 --> 04:07:11,645
to these matters. Goodnight . Thank you.

3085
04:07:12,655 --> 04:07:16,515
thank you. Kathy eddy

3086
04:07:16,805 --> 04:07:20,315
and bob lepers. Hi, I'm kathy eddi,

3087
04:07:20,985 --> 04:07:24,965
um, 1125 nib lane mannequin. I'm seating my time to

3088
04:07:25,145 --> 04:07:28,935
bob leifer. Good evening, madam

3089
04:07:29,405 --> 04:07:33,325
chair and members of the planning commission. My name is bob lipert. I reside at 3 0 0 4

3090
04:07:34,805 --> 04:07:38,735
rugby road, richmond. I'm here tonight speaking in support of the request

3091
04:07:39,155 --> 04:07:43,155
of the cup for virginia sports park. As

3092
04:07:43,375 --> 04:07:47,115
you've heard a number of times, there are concerns with the environmental issues

3093
04:07:47,605 --> 04:07:51,495
that, uh, potential environmental issues that, uh, might occur

3094
04:07:51,775 --> 04:07:55,655
with this facility. And I'd like to try to take and give you a little bit

3095
04:07:55,815 --> 04:07:58,715
of background or detail on those issues.

3096
04:08:00,495 --> 04:08:03,795
wetlands, surface waters, subsurface waters, uh,

3097
04:08:04,765 --> 04:08:08,705
add lead, fall under the regulation and control of the clean

3098
04:08:08,945 --> 04:08:12,645
water act and the epa and are enforced

3099
04:08:13,085 --> 04:08:17,015
by various federal, state, and local agencies if

3100
04:08:17,235 --> 04:08:20,795
you approve this request. And should the board of supervisors approve

3101
04:08:21,265 --> 04:08:25,055
this request, it allows the development of the engineering studies and

3102
04:08:25,465 --> 04:08:29,295
designs to confirm the existence of wetlands, surface waters,

3103
04:08:29,715 --> 04:08:33,385
subsurface waters, storm waters, uh, quantities,

3104
04:08:34,455 --> 04:08:38,425
locations, and lead effect in order to submit plans

3105
04:08:38,915 --> 04:08:42,875
to these agencies to clarify how we intend to manage these issues and

3106
04:08:43,195 --> 04:08:45,485
obtain their approval in the required permits.

3107
04:08:47,475 --> 04:08:51,315
additionally, during the course of the construction, periodic field inspections are conducted

3108
04:08:51,855 --> 04:08:55,775
by these agencies to confirm their compliance. The time

3109
04:08:56,295 --> 04:09:00,215
required to complete these, to complete these studies and the engineering design

3110
04:09:01,435 --> 04:09:05,415
and approvals will frankly take somewhere between 12 to 16

3111
04:09:05,875 --> 04:09:07,055
months to accomplish.

3112
04:09:10,985 --> 04:09:14,475
it's important to understand that should you choose to approve this request,

3113
04:09:15,065 --> 04:09:18,925
it does not suggest that you have studied, uh, any of

3114
04:09:19,125 --> 04:09:22,405
these issues or provide any approval of the same.

3115
04:09:23,315 --> 04:09:27,205
your approval simply means that the use is suitable for the

3116
04:09:27,605 --> 04:09:31,585
location and zoning and will and will allow for

3117
04:09:31,865 --> 04:09:35,675
the then the development of the pod plans, which will clarify some

3118
04:09:35,965 --> 04:09:38,165
of this information that's questioned.

3119
04:09:40,485 --> 04:09:44,185
one last item, um, regarding the

3120
04:09:44,885 --> 04:09:48,885
temporary trailer. Um, as noted, vsp

3121
04:09:49,385 --> 04:09:51,835
is a 5 0 1 3 c nonprofit,

3122
04:09:54,595 --> 04:09:58,025
um, excuse me,

3123
04:10:02,515 --> 04:10:06,295
the, the, the estimated full cost development cost of the

3124
04:10:06,735 --> 04:10:09,575
facility. Right now we're expecting to be somewhere around 3.5 million.

3125
04:10:13,035 --> 04:10:16,845
um, that money is not going to come in the door en mass.

3126
04:10:17,525 --> 04:10:20,925
it's gonna be raised by, uh, individual contribution, corporate

3127
04:10:21,855 --> 04:10:25,675
contribution, and in some cases, some, uh, grants that might apply for

3128
04:10:25,895 --> 04:10:29,815
facilities of this sort. So it will take a

3129
04:10:29,955 --> 04:10:33,885
bit of time to get to that point. And in order to begin to get some

3130
04:10:34,185 --> 04:10:38,015
level of operation, it has suggested that we would operate from a temporary

3131
04:10:38,255 --> 04:10:42,165
trailer and temporary health facilities. In order to install

3132
04:10:42,655 --> 04:10:46,605
those facilities, we would have to develop plans dic,

3133
04:10:46,785 --> 04:10:50,715
uh, detailing where they would be located. In addition, seek

3134
04:10:51,035 --> 04:10:54,845
permits from both the, uh, gland county building inspection

3135
04:10:55,405 --> 04:10:59,125
department and the gland health department who would oversee those

3136
04:10:59,495 --> 04:11:03,435
operations. Lastly, I and I, I'd

3137
04:11:04,205 --> 04:11:08,135
like to point out, and I think it's been noted, that per the terms of

3138
04:11:08,355 --> 04:11:12,195
our lease with lux stone, uh, we

3139
04:11:12,415 --> 04:11:15,015
are required to develop and implement

3140
04:11:17,025 --> 04:11:21,025
and maintain an environmental management plan to ensure that no

3141
04:11:21,245 --> 04:11:24,405
en en environmental issues are allowed to develop.

3142
04:11:25,295 --> 04:11:27,965
thank you for your time. Thank you.

3143
04:11:30,055 --> 04:11:33,935
thank you. If, if jt frazier and

3144
04:11:34,155 --> 04:11:37,995
mike richmond could come to the podium, and if we could also have in the front

3145
04:11:38,215 --> 04:11:41,795
row, brian c justin, lacey, lonnie, bryce,

3146
04:11:42,765 --> 04:11:46,295
marcy reese, sonny williams, joshua cather,

3147
04:11:47,365 --> 04:11:49,945
jerry weaver. Stacy sson.

3148
04:11:54,265 --> 04:11:58,075
good evening. I'm jt frazier. 9 9 2 0 par drive,

3149
04:11:58,355 --> 04:12:01,875
oaksville, virginia. I'm saving my time to mike richmond. Thank you.

3150
04:12:03,055 --> 04:12:06,715
my name is mike michael richmond, r-s-c-h-m-o-n. Live at 1 3 4 7

3151
04:12:07,795 --> 04:12:11,775
hounslow drive, mannequin seven. Uh, what the founders meant

3152
04:12:12,125 --> 04:12:16,105
by virtue. Virtue can be defined as self-restraint in the service of

3153
04:12:16,325 --> 04:12:20,245
the common good. For the founders, virtue meant willingness to place

3154
04:12:20,505 --> 04:12:24,035
the public good above private interests, discipline, courage,

3155
04:12:25,085 --> 04:12:28,785
honesty, industry, and civic responsibility virtue

3156
04:12:29,465 --> 04:12:32,405
as what is best for the population, rather than a few individuals

3157
04:12:33,585 --> 04:12:36,805
not legislating for one class at the expense of others.

3158
04:12:37,835 --> 04:12:41,725
that distinction virtue as devotion to the good of the whole rather

3159
04:12:42,195 --> 04:12:46,085
than the advantage of the few goes straight to the heart of the american founding.

3160
04:12:47,065 --> 04:12:50,525
the founders believed the republic would survive only if

3161
04:12:51,125 --> 04:12:55,045
citizens and leaders constantly subordinated narrow self-interest to

3162
04:12:55,245 --> 04:12:59,035
the common good. The founders were intensely worried about rule

3163
04:12:59,385 --> 04:13:02,725
by factions, small groups using power to enrich themselves.

3164
04:13:04,085 --> 04:13:07,905
factions arise from the nature of man, but liberty is

3165
04:13:08,125 --> 04:13:11,565
endangered. When factions capture government for private advantage.

3166
04:13:12,785 --> 04:13:16,235
virtue meant laws made for general benefit,

3167
04:13:17,355 --> 04:13:20,765
burdens and benefits shared fairly. Sacrifice

3168
04:13:21,605 --> 04:13:25,385
accepted when necessarily for the whole john adams argued

3169
04:13:25,805 --> 04:13:29,235
that liberty exists only when laws are equally

3170
04:13:30,045 --> 04:13:32,795
binding on all and calculated for the general good.

3171
04:13:34,125 --> 04:13:37,935
anything else was not liberty, it was favoritism. Virtue meant

3172
04:13:38,285 --> 04:13:42,245
resisting policies that favored or enriched a few by manipulating public

3173
04:13:42,775 --> 04:13:46,755
power, even if those policies were legal. When

3174
04:13:47,045 --> 04:13:50,765
virtue is widely held, freedom expands when it captures

3175
04:13:51,315 --> 04:13:54,525
into self-interest. Freedom concentrates until it disappears.

3176
04:13:56,165 --> 04:14:00,125
applying the founders' idea of virtue as commitment to common good to local

3177
04:14:00,445 --> 04:14:04,325
governance and land use debates is not abstract

3178
04:14:04,565 --> 04:14:08,545
theory. It is exactly the scale at which they believe republican virtue

3179
04:14:09,445 --> 04:14:12,825
mattered. Most towns, counties, and local boards

3180
04:14:13,795 --> 04:14:16,895
were character, fairness and restraint would be tested daily.

3181
04:14:17,885 --> 04:14:21,665
a virtuous land use decision asked what best serves

3182
04:14:22,105 --> 04:14:26,005
the long-term welfare of the whole community, not merely the comfort,

3183
04:14:26,425 --> 04:14:30,405
profit or preferences of a few. The standard

3184
04:14:30,675 --> 04:14:34,045
rejects, reflective, reflexive, no change ever

3185
04:14:34,685 --> 04:14:38,475
obstruction, special carve-outs for connected interest. Emotional

3186
04:14:39,365 --> 04:14:43,365
decision making, untethered from facts virtue requires

3187
04:14:43,925 --> 04:14:47,925
deliberation, fairness, and foresight. The founders

3188
04:14:48,345 --> 04:14:52,285
warned against faction, small groups dominating public decisions

3189
04:14:53,225 --> 04:14:57,085
in land use debates, factions often appeared as a handful

3190
04:14:57,825 --> 04:15:00,965
of nearby property owners seeking veto power,

3191
04:15:02,215 --> 04:15:06,005
developers seeking preferential treatment. Madison's warning

3192
04:15:06,265 --> 04:15:09,545
in federalist 10 applies directly. Factions become

3193
04:15:10,285 --> 04:15:13,845
dangerous when it pursues its interest at the expense of the permanent and aggregate

3194
04:15:14,645 --> 04:15:18,505
interest of the community. A virtuous board must resist

3195
04:15:19,365 --> 04:15:23,225
captured by faction, even sympathetic ones. The founders did

3196
04:15:23,445 --> 04:15:27,165
not expect freedom. Freedom to be silent or frictionless.

3197
04:15:28,425 --> 04:15:31,245
virtue demands reasonable accommodation, not eliminations

3198
04:15:32,505 --> 04:15:35,085
of all inconvenience applied principles,

3199
04:15:36,525 --> 04:15:39,595
distinguished annoyance from material harm, balance

3200
04:15:40,645 --> 04:15:44,035
existing land rights with new uses, measure impacts empirically

3201
04:15:45,345 --> 04:15:49,135
not emotionally apply standards consistently. Washington

3202
04:15:49,855 --> 04:15:53,845
wrote that liberty requires a spirit of accommodation and mutual

3203
04:15:54,415 --> 04:15:58,325
concession. Local virtue means acknowledging that some lawful

3204
04:15:58,725 --> 04:16:02,685
activities create discomfort. And the question is whether they unreasonably

3205
04:16:03,045 --> 04:16:05,885
harm the community, not whether they offend preferences.

3206
04:16:07,105 --> 04:16:10,965
the founders viewed property rights as essential not just

3207
04:16:11,165 --> 04:16:14,835
to individuals, but to social stability. Land

3208
04:16:15,285 --> 04:16:18,885
rous restrictions are virtuous only when they protect health and safety.

3209
04:16:19,595 --> 04:16:23,245
prevent genuine nosis or harm, apply generally

3210
04:16:23,785 --> 04:16:26,725
and predict it to the masses. And I've got too many pages.

3211
04:16:28,405 --> 04:16:31,165
I thank you for your time. Thank you.

3212
04:16:34,275 --> 04:16:38,215
brian c brian c

3213
04:16:38,435 --> 04:16:41,875
10 34 earls road. And uh, obviously earls road is

3214
04:16:42,515 --> 04:16:46,075
not near walton road. I wanted to speak on behalf of the

3215
04:16:46,575 --> 04:16:50,275
neighbors of walton road just to offer a perspective from one who

3216
04:16:51,035 --> 04:16:54,855
has great value for our community. One of the refrains that I've

3217
04:16:55,135 --> 04:16:58,855
often heard in relation to this is, well, you live in the country,

3218
04:16:59,245 --> 04:17:02,845
what do you expect? One thing I've come to appreciate knowing

3219
04:17:03,335 --> 04:17:07,255
people in our county is many of them who do shoot recreationally,

3220
04:17:08,415 --> 04:17:12,415
I know that they will actually reach out to their neighbors on days or times

3221
04:17:12,575 --> 04:17:16,305
when they intend to shoot. Just something along the lines of, hey, I'm gonna be

3222
04:17:16,745 --> 04:17:20,745
shooting, uh, you guys got anything going on? I don't want to intrude on that, just

3223
04:17:21,025 --> 04:17:24,995
as a matter of neighborly courtesy. And I think you would find that common

3224
04:17:25,985 --> 04:17:29,925
throughout our entire community. That's something we value and why? Because

3225
04:17:30,515 --> 04:17:34,295
we want to be good neighbors to one another, and we don't wanna do anything that's a detriment

3226
04:17:35,275 --> 04:17:39,275
to just somebody's livelihood. And I sit here tonight listening to this now

3227
04:17:39,595 --> 04:17:43,335
for, we've been here since five 30, a lot of us, and I wonder

3228
04:17:44,465 --> 04:17:48,235
what causes a group like the walton road neighbors to unify like

3229
04:17:48,515 --> 04:17:51,955
this and, and go to so many hours and links and come to these meetings

3230
04:17:52,655 --> 04:17:56,545
and mobilize as they have in such a short amount of time with virtually

3231
04:17:57,375 --> 04:18:00,715
no assistance from the developers. And the only conclusion

3232
04:18:01,395 --> 04:18:04,765
I can come to is they know that this gun range

3233
04:18:05,665 --> 04:18:09,365
will detrimentally impact their livelihood. Everything

3234
04:18:09,885 --> 04:18:13,345
from safety, their children playing outside random

3235
04:18:14,035 --> 04:18:17,965
gunfire. The idea of property values not being affected. I can tell

3236
04:18:18,125 --> 04:18:21,655
you, and I would think many of us could, if I'm considering buying someone's

3237
04:18:22,535 --> 04:18:26,375
property and I'm on site and all of a sudden I hear cascading gunfire and

3238
04:18:26,575 --> 04:18:30,575
I ask someone showing me, what is that noise? Uh, what's that coming from? Is somebody

3239
04:18:30,655 --> 04:18:34,475
just out shooting today? Oh no, that's, that's the gun range next door. Oh, what do they do

3240
04:18:34,695 --> 04:18:38,675
this once every month? No, they do it every day from sunrise to

3241
04:18:38,895 --> 04:18:42,815
sunset. I can tell you right now, the property value is gonna be detrimentally affected.

3242
04:18:42,935 --> 04:18:46,885
so whether they stay, they have detrimental impacts if they try to leave, it's

3243
04:18:47,175 --> 04:18:51,135
the same thing. So as you weigh all of these things, I just plead with you as

3244
04:18:51,295 --> 04:18:55,295
one who doesn't live right there, just listen to these neighbors. Whatever

3245
04:18:56,015 --> 04:18:59,495
economic boost or whatever that you'll hear about, weigh that against the detrimental

3246
04:19:00,165 --> 04:19:03,725
impacts and it's not worth it to me to trample them underfoot

3247
04:19:04,335 --> 04:19:07,455
and their concerns, the good neighbors of walton roads. So thank you.

3248
04:19:08,995 --> 04:19:12,495
thank you justin. Lacey.

3249
04:19:14,815 --> 04:19:18,635
justin had to go. I'm further down the list. Is it okay if I take his spot?

3250
04:19:19,625 --> 04:19:23,285
I'm jad mylab. Sure. Okay,

3251
04:19:23,705 --> 04:19:27,575
thank you. Um, and I'm chair,

3252
04:19:28,035 --> 04:19:31,875
uh, kim commissioners. My name is jad mylab. I work for lux

3253
04:19:32,095 --> 04:19:35,975
stone as land use and development manager. And I'm here today

3254
04:19:36,355 --> 04:19:40,025
on behalf of luck to voice our support to virginia sports parks,

3255
04:19:40,435 --> 04:19:44,255
uh, proposal on our property. Um, we believe that what

3256
04:19:44,915 --> 04:19:48,695
vsp is proposing will create a place, uh, a meaningful place

3257
04:19:48,955 --> 04:19:52,955
for the gland community and surrounding communities, uh, to get together, gather

3258
04:19:53,795 --> 04:19:57,655
and enjoy the outdoors, create long-lasting, uh, uh, uh,

3259
04:19:58,295 --> 04:20:02,255
memories with family and friends. Uh, and I believe these are some of the values

3260
04:20:02,565 --> 04:20:06,475
that what this county's all about. We also trust that, uh,

3261
04:20:07,325 --> 04:20:10,845
vsps leadership will manage our property and this project

3262
04:20:12,115 --> 04:20:15,965
and a very high level of professionalism, safety, and respect

3263
04:20:16,515 --> 04:20:20,035
to the community, to the neighbors, and to the environment and our

3264
04:20:20,535 --> 04:20:24,475
property. As a matter of fact, in the early stages of talking to

3265
04:20:24,935 --> 04:20:28,885
vsp and the board, when I was just representing lock stone and the real estate side,

3266
04:20:29,775 --> 04:20:32,975
I was impressed by all the things that, that they talked about.

3267
04:20:34,075 --> 04:20:37,675
the caring, you know, the mission, the things they would do to the

3268
04:20:38,175 --> 04:20:42,055
property and in the community that I asked to be on the board of esp.

3269
04:20:42,915 --> 04:20:46,795
and now I am one of, uh, uh, uh, the board members, uh, of

3270
04:20:47,175 --> 04:20:50,875
esp, uh, hoping to, you know, get this through in, in,

3271
04:20:51,195 --> 04:20:55,055
uh, uh, and actually, um, uh, get to see the site, uh, in action.

3272
04:20:55,915 --> 04:20:59,755
um, as you all know as well, lux stone is, uh,

3273
04:21:00,075 --> 04:21:03,765
uh, very, uh, keen on being a big part of the community

3274
04:21:04,395 --> 04:21:08,245
and engaged in, uh, in the community. We also, uh, care about

3275
04:21:08,485 --> 04:21:12,445
being good neighbors and we take pride of over 30,000 acres

3276
04:21:12,765 --> 04:21:16,545
that we own across four states, uh, virginia and

3277
04:21:17,055 --> 04:21:20,665
gland county, specifically being our home, uh, uh, turf. So

3278
04:21:21,935 --> 04:21:25,855
after reviewing all the professional studies that we saw from noise

3279
04:21:26,205 --> 04:21:29,825
testing to the, uh, uh, uh, tia and

3280
04:21:30,605 --> 04:21:34,085
I personally attended the, uh, shooting demonstration on monday,

3281
04:21:34,905 --> 04:21:38,825
um, we think that this will not impact the

3282
04:21:39,275 --> 04:21:43,245
community. Uh, you know, I I heard a lot of concerns today,

3283
04:21:43,545 --> 04:21:47,385
but we don't think that this is gonna be a negative impact. Um, uh, but

3284
04:21:47,605 --> 04:21:50,845
the opposite, we think it's gonna be a v very positive thing in the community,

3285
04:21:51,745 --> 04:21:55,645
and we don't, uh, think that it's gonna devalue our property. And for that,

3286
04:21:55,895 --> 04:21:59,745
we're hoping that the approval of this and the execution will only impact lux

3287
04:21:59,965 --> 04:22:03,965
stone's positive legacy that we, that we build, uh, anywhere

3288
04:22:04,085 --> 04:22:08,045
we go. So I appreciate everybody's time and consideration to making

3289
04:22:08,285 --> 04:22:10,645
this happen. Thank you all. Thank you.

3290
04:22:12,925 --> 04:22:13,165
lonnie. Bryce,

3291
04:22:17,295 --> 04:22:17,845
marcy reese.

3292
04:22:24,645 --> 04:22:28,595
hello, my name's marcy reese. I live at 4 1 3 5 shannon hill road.

3293
04:22:30,535 --> 04:22:34,465
I'm here to speak in favor of the vsp shooting park.

3294
04:22:35,705 --> 04:22:39,665
I've been a archery coach for the last 20 years. I've

3295
04:22:39,955 --> 04:22:43,685
been employed by usa archery and I'm a level four coach.

3296
04:22:44,275 --> 04:22:48,175
I certify other coaches. I work with jmu, um,

3297
04:22:49,175 --> 04:22:53,155
and I wanted to talk a little bit about safety and the benefits of the shooting

3298
04:22:53,275 --> 04:22:55,895
sports and what it can do for children. Um,

3299
04:22:57,705 --> 04:23:01,515
shortly, I wanted to also mention that somebody said something

3300
04:23:01,875 --> 04:23:05,705
about busting the kids out. Uh, school kids. I've

3301
04:23:05,995 --> 04:23:09,935
worked with collegiate for the last 10 years and steward school for the last six

3302
04:23:10,155 --> 04:23:13,915
years, and they will definitely bust the kids out. They do it all the time.

3303
04:23:14,505 --> 04:23:17,755
there's gonna be some tomorrow, by the way, at our place,

3304
04:23:19,055 --> 04:23:22,755
uh, mostly the opposition to the programs has to do with

3305
04:23:23,605 --> 04:23:27,355
fears about safety and certain things that's gonna happen

3306
04:23:28,695 --> 04:23:32,555
or that they think may happen. Archery ranks as one of the safest

3307
04:23:32,915 --> 04:23:36,915
recreational sports. The injury rates are extremely

3308
04:23:37,455 --> 04:23:40,815
low at a 0.35 per 1000

3309
04:23:41,695 --> 04:23:44,425
far below soccer, basketball, and even golf.

3310
04:23:46,295 --> 04:23:50,125
the nas program, national archery in the school program, which

3311
04:23:50,475 --> 04:23:54,235
has reached over 18 million students, reports zero accidents

3312
04:23:54,735 --> 04:23:58,675
in its history. Sporting clays and youth shotgun programs

3313
04:23:59,345 --> 04:24:02,475
emphasize rigorous safety training. The organizations

3314
04:24:03,385 --> 04:24:07,385
like the scholastic clay target program and four h sports require

3315
04:24:07,875 --> 04:24:11,515
certified instructors mandatory safety certification,

3316
04:24:12,875 --> 04:24:16,665
structured supervision, background checks, uh,

3317
04:24:17,535 --> 04:24:21,285
which result in incident rates comparable to

3318
04:24:21,645 --> 04:24:25,565
or lower than other youth sports. All activities would follow

3319
04:24:25,905 --> 04:24:28,895
strict protocols, certified coaches, one-on-one

3320
04:24:29,925 --> 04:24:33,235
supervision for beginners protective gear.

3321
04:24:34,905 --> 04:24:38,845
as a nonprofit program, they can

3322
04:24:39,045 --> 04:24:42,475
proprietary safety and the education above profit mirroring

3323
04:24:43,085 --> 04:24:46,485
successful models like usa archery's jo ad program.

3324
04:24:47,805 --> 04:24:51,525
I have a team of jo ad kids. We're going to jmu in february,

3325
04:24:52,265 --> 04:24:55,845
taking 22 kids to compete in indoor

3326
04:24:56,485 --> 04:25:00,295
nationals. So wouldn't it be great to have a facility here in gland

3327
04:25:00,655 --> 04:25:04,465
where we can draw people and these kids from all over the state to

3328
04:25:04,685 --> 04:25:08,405
come here and learn about the shooting sports? Thank you.

3329
04:25:09,895 --> 04:25:12,785
thank you. Thank you sonny williams.

3330
04:25:24,205 --> 04:25:27,065
my name is sonny williams. I live at 46 0 5 walton road.

3331
04:25:28,845 --> 04:25:32,505
uh, I've lived there for over 24 years. This area has remained very

3332
04:25:32,985 --> 04:25:36,885
peaceful, quiet, it's just a good country life. But if this gun

3333
04:25:37,105 --> 04:25:39,865
range gets approved, our lives will be changed.

3334
04:25:41,655 --> 04:25:45,515
we will be forced to deal with thousands of gunshots daily and increase

3335
04:25:45,675 --> 04:25:48,765
traffic. And this is coming from someone who works nights

3336
04:25:50,065 --> 04:25:53,785
and I'm losing work tonight being here. Um,

3337
04:25:55,095 --> 04:25:57,865
it's gonna be hard for me to sleep. Uh,

3338
04:26:00,795 --> 04:26:02,555
the sound study that was done the other day,

3339
04:26:05,635 --> 04:26:08,565
they say they didn't make much noise, but they did. I was at home.

3340
04:26:10,045 --> 04:26:12,385
I was through all of it. Um,

3341
04:26:15,855 --> 04:26:19,815
I want to ask y'all, how does this benefit the co the county?

3342
04:26:21,995 --> 04:26:25,475
is there a better location? You gotta ask yourself that. It's gotta be,

3343
04:26:26,045 --> 04:26:28,615
there's too many homes around this. Um,

3344
04:26:31,015 --> 04:26:34,155
and then the new news of the alcohol is really disturbing.

3345
04:26:35,805 --> 04:26:39,705
if they're promoting children coming to this busting children in, just as the lady just

3346
04:26:39,945 --> 04:26:43,835
spoke, how is children supposed to be there with, with alcohol?

3347
04:26:45,095 --> 04:26:49,065
how is that supposed to happen? I mean, I

3348
04:26:49,185 --> 04:26:52,465
don't wanna send my child over there if they're sitting around drinking

3349
04:26:53,295 --> 04:26:56,775
guns and alcohol. Just don't mix. That's my opinion.

3350
04:26:57,835 --> 04:27:01,595
so I thank you for your time. Thank

3351
04:27:01,945 --> 04:27:04,965
you. Joshua cather.

3352
04:27:07,085 --> 04:27:09,865
joshua cather, 1750 walton store road.

3353
04:27:15,475 --> 04:27:19,195
good evening, madam chair and commissioners referencing the guiding principles

3354
04:27:19,715 --> 04:27:23,515
of gland's 2035 comp plan regarding land use, specifically to promote

3355
04:27:24,115 --> 04:27:27,835
balanced development and preservation of rural character. Vsp as currently

3356
04:27:28,435 --> 04:27:32,015
proposed is like an unbalanced equation. First from page two,

3357
04:27:32,705 --> 04:27:36,515
it's harming the rural character of the community. Rural living is synonymous with sporadic

3358
04:27:36,835 --> 04:27:40,795
hunting and recreational gunfire, not the daily chronic punctuation of it in your

3359
04:27:40,875 --> 04:27:44,825
family homes. Second, from page two, my friends on

3360
04:27:45,025 --> 04:27:48,945
the other side have provided no articulable contributions to the welfare of the walton road

3361
04:27:49,105 --> 04:27:51,785
community. Only indeterminate reference to community bonding

3362
04:27:53,305 --> 04:27:57,265
vsp is emphatically for the enjoyment of those who will travel to vsp, to the detriment

3363
04:27:57,905 --> 04:28:01,685
of the community adjacent to facility. And third, from page three, quality

3364
04:28:02,005 --> 04:28:05,995
of life should be retained or enhanced without equivocation. Have

3365
04:28:06,285 --> 04:28:09,845
my friends proven this will not harm the immediate community in terms of lead traffic

3366
04:28:10,345 --> 04:28:14,335
and noise. Vsp has not articulated or qualified what the

3367
04:28:14,735 --> 04:28:17,895
increase to welfare of those living on walton will be as the comp plan directs.

3368
04:28:18,875 --> 04:28:22,635
and likewise, my friends have not provided articulable increases to or retention of

3369
04:28:23,115 --> 04:28:26,905
the quality of life of the walton community. Similar directives are found in gland

3370
04:28:27,255 --> 04:28:31,255
county zoning ordinance governing conditional use permits. If this, if this equation is

3371
04:28:31,455 --> 04:28:35,455
to be balanced, implementation of conditions found in the conditions and precedents

3372
04:28:35,975 --> 04:28:39,895
submitted by ms. Dalton is a sat satisfactory solution. There's

3373
04:28:40,385 --> 04:28:44,345
been a lot of emphasis on the youth centered mission of vsp and respectfully, it appears

3374
04:28:44,625 --> 04:28:48,425
much like a guise given the incongruity with the operating hours that

3375
04:28:48,705 --> 04:28:52,665
effectively prevent youth participation from some three quarters of operating hours

3376
04:28:53,535 --> 04:28:57,305
each weekday during the academic year. Urge the commission to envision yourselves

3377
04:28:57,845 --> 04:29:01,705
as in place members of the immediate walton road community and to impose the conditions

3378
04:29:02,105 --> 04:29:06,105
found in the conditions and precedents submitted by ms. Dalton. Thank you for your time.

3379
04:29:07,875 --> 04:29:09,315
thank you jerry weaver.

3380
04:29:18,295 --> 04:29:20,335
good evening, madam chair and commissioners.

3381
04:29:22,365 --> 04:29:26,025
my name is jerry weaver and I reside at 5,000 double

3382
04:29:26,425 --> 04:29:29,945
eagle drive in the estates at royal virginia.

3383
04:29:31,365 --> 04:29:34,675
I'm about approximately a mile and a half as the crow flies

3384
04:29:35,685 --> 04:29:38,855
and noise travels from the proposed site.

3385
04:29:41,135 --> 04:29:45,065
to date, vsp has not demonstrated in good faith that

3386
04:29:45,355 --> 04:29:48,595
this project will not impact surrounding property values

3387
04:29:49,735 --> 04:29:53,465
or diminished the use and enjoyment of nearby residential

3388
04:29:54,155 --> 04:29:57,985
properties due to noise. No limits have

3389
04:29:58,275 --> 04:30:01,515
been proposed on days of operation or hours of operation

3390
04:30:02,915 --> 04:30:06,565
with shooting being proposed from daylight to dark seven days

3391
04:30:06,965 --> 04:30:10,915
a week, 365 days a year. There's

3392
04:30:11,435 --> 04:30:15,225
also no guarantee that vsp will be

3393
04:30:15,745 --> 04:30:19,545
restricting the use of anything other than, uh, low charge

3394
04:30:19,995 --> 04:30:23,865
ammunition or otherwise limiting what types of loads of

3395
04:30:24,065 --> 04:30:26,335
ammunition may be used on site.

3396
04:30:28,325 --> 04:30:31,865
further, vsp has conducted no professional noise study

3397
04:30:32,715 --> 04:30:36,585
or credible simulation reflecting real world

3398
04:30:37,085 --> 04:30:41,025
operating conditions, including shots from real

3399
04:30:41,555 --> 04:30:45,185
shooting station placement and anticipated daily

3400
04:30:46,055 --> 04:30:49,715
activity. Without this data, there is no

3401
04:30:50,295 --> 04:30:53,995
reliable or accurate way to assess the true noise impact

3402
04:30:54,595 --> 04:30:55,975
on nearby neighborhoods.

3403
04:30:59,595 --> 04:31:03,275
vsp also provides or proposes shooting over wetlands

3404
04:31:03,865 --> 04:31:07,535
without presenting any lead mitigation plans or

3405
04:31:07,885 --> 04:31:11,765
water monitoring plans. There are no proposed

3406
04:31:12,045 --> 04:31:15,925
setbacks or perimeter fencing to protect neighboring children,

3407
04:31:17,035 --> 04:31:20,815
pets, or passing traffic as proposed. This

3408
04:31:21,385 --> 04:31:25,205
facility represents a significant health and

3409
04:31:25,425 --> 04:31:28,585
safety concern and would be an environmentally

3410
04:31:29,875 --> 04:31:32,745
unfriendly neighbor in our surrounding communities.

3411
04:31:34,935 --> 04:31:38,685
in addition, traffic congestion at the intersections of route

3412
04:31:39,095 --> 04:31:43,065
2 53 chopped road and walton road will

3413
04:31:43,415 --> 04:31:47,305
worsen substantially. Three. Chopped road and walton

3414
04:31:47,725 --> 04:31:51,665
road are already narrow roadways, effectively one

3415
04:31:51,885 --> 04:31:55,735
and a half lanes. They have no center line or

3416
04:31:55,985 --> 04:31:59,985
burn markings. Increased traffic will make these roads

3417
04:32:00,405 --> 04:32:04,395
more dangerous for residents, commuters, and school

3418
04:32:04,815 --> 04:32:08,635
buses alike. The traffic study provided is

3419
04:32:08,875 --> 04:32:12,875
at best incomplete and requires further review

3420
04:32:13,295 --> 04:32:17,265
and revision. Any one of these issues should

3421
04:32:17,685 --> 04:32:21,505
alone be submission sufficient to deter or

3422
04:32:22,155 --> 04:32:25,595
deny this permit taken together. They clearly

3423
04:32:26,305 --> 04:32:29,835
justify denial unless substantial changes are made.

3424
04:32:32,695 --> 04:32:36,295
in conclusion, I agree with the findings presented in the impact

3425
04:32:36,825 --> 04:32:40,555
suitability study and respectively urge the commissioners

3426
04:32:41,775 --> 04:32:45,755
to not to deny this application or at a

3427
04:32:45,875 --> 04:32:49,175
minimum, require the conditions outlined in cu

3428
04:32:50,055 --> 04:32:50,055
20 25 0 0 0 12

3429
04:32:55,175 --> 04:32:58,915
and the related conditions and procedures report submitted

3430
04:32:59,525 --> 04:33:03,125
to the commission be adopted. Thank you. Thank you for your time.

3431
04:33:03,935 --> 04:33:07,805
thank you. If stacy sson could come

3432
04:33:08,045 --> 04:33:11,125
to the podium and then on the front row, alicia kaiser,

3433
04:33:12,155 --> 04:33:15,605
jose leandro, sharon valencia, kara larson,

3434
04:33:16,295 --> 04:33:19,885
caleb shortridge, phil marat, dave martin,

3435
04:33:20,585 --> 04:33:24,525
and chris bracket. We will also need to take a little bit of a

3436
04:33:24,645 --> 04:33:28,355
break, ms. Parker. Um, and maybe after this applicant speaks, we need to take

3437
04:33:28,765 --> 04:33:32,685
a, take a five minute breather. Thank you. I appreciate that. Or applicant.

3438
04:33:33,145 --> 04:33:36,925
I'm so sorry. Citizen . Thank you. I deny I

3439
04:33:37,845 --> 04:33:41,685
withdraw my application. My apologies. . Good evening, madam chair

3440
04:33:41,965 --> 04:33:44,885
and commissioners. My name is stacy sellon and I live at 41 21

3441
04:33:46,085 --> 04:33:50,045
clay morris estates, which is a half mile from the proposed site. I, I

3442
04:33:50,165 --> 04:33:53,705
agree with the entire substance of the community impact and site suitability report

3443
04:33:54,485 --> 04:33:58,355
prepared by concerned neighbors of gland and louisa counties. And I urge the commission to deny

3444
04:33:58,645 --> 04:34:02,125
the application. The gland county staff report prepared for this meeting

3445
04:34:02,965 --> 04:34:06,885
identifies a number of outstanding concerns that remain unaddressed by bsp. Given this lack

3446
04:34:07,085 --> 04:34:10,925
of basic information related to environmental impacts and mitigation plans,

3447
04:34:11,215 --> 04:34:15,205
legitimate scientific sound studies and unaddressed traffic issues, the commission should

3448
04:34:15,405 --> 04:34:19,125
minimally defer consideration until vsp can resolve these outstanding issues.

3449
04:34:20,305 --> 04:34:24,245
I'd like to spend the remainder of my time discussing some very specific impacts that the proposed

3450
04:34:24,405 --> 04:34:27,165
range will have on my agricultural activities related to beekeeping.

3451
04:34:28,765 --> 04:34:32,245
I move to gland county specifically for the rural nature of the area and the clear appreciation

3452
04:34:32,905 --> 04:34:36,805
for the benefits of supporting local agricultural endeavors. My beekeeping journey began

3453
04:34:37,125 --> 04:34:40,965
in 2020 and my passion for beekeeping and its benefits to the survival of our food supply

3454
04:34:41,665 --> 04:34:45,565
and the overall environmental benefits of pollinators continues to grow. As my a

3455
04:34:45,685 --> 04:34:49,645
br expands. The goal is to offer local treatment-free honey to the larger gland community.

3456
04:34:50,665 --> 04:34:54,535
that is a use that is both in concert with the intended land use for our area and

3457
04:34:54,755 --> 04:34:58,605
in danger from the vsp proposal. Honeybees are known to forage up to five

3458
04:34:58,765 --> 04:35:02,605
miles from their hive, but will look for the closest abundant sources of pollen, nectar,

3459
04:35:03,005 --> 04:35:06,405
and water. The problem with lead shot being shot into this area

3460
04:35:07,105 --> 04:35:11,005
is not just about the soil, but also the fine particulates and dust that will clinging

3461
04:35:11,245 --> 04:35:15,125
to surrounding vegetation, contaminating forging areas, as well as the

3462
04:35:15,325 --> 04:35:19,085
fine dust entering sources of water that will not only potentially contaminate wetlands

3463
04:35:19,605 --> 04:35:23,445
and local wells, but also standing water used by bees and other insects and wildlife.

3464
04:35:24,465 --> 04:35:28,405
the most recent scientific paper on this issue is entitled heavy metal pollution from a shooting range

3465
04:35:29,285 --> 04:35:33,215
revealed by honeybees published november 25. They note that

3466
04:35:33,375 --> 04:35:37,195
honeybees can be employed to detect small localized aerosol sources such as shooting ranges

3467
04:35:37,915 --> 04:35:41,525
and that particles and components may be found in apiary products such as wax, proplus,

3468
04:35:42,015 --> 04:35:45,875
and even honey with supporting studies from 2006 2015 and

3469
04:35:46,095 --> 04:35:49,905
2021. Additional agricultural disturbances include an existing gland

3470
04:35:50,455 --> 04:35:54,375
business, our favorite newcastle b and berry farm located just across the road

3471
04:35:54,535 --> 04:35:58,525
from me. Three three chopped, which has you pick no spray. Strawberries and honey produced on their

3472
04:35:58,925 --> 04:36:02,815
property, both of which could be contaminated by the bsb project. Hg meats

3473
04:36:03,135 --> 04:36:07,135
is located approximately a half mile from the proposed site and will potentially have leg contamination

3474
04:36:07,865 --> 04:36:11,615
water sources, which would affect our local food supply relative to any animals processed at that

3475
04:36:12,015 --> 04:36:15,655
facility. Given the comprehensive plans focus on agricultural and rural enhancement

3476
04:36:16,515 --> 04:36:20,335
as well as the current zoning of the area, the commission should not approve any use that will

3477
04:36:20,535 --> 04:36:24,535
not be in harmony with the existing uses. As my neighbors have made it abundantly clear

3478
04:36:25,085 --> 04:36:28,975
this evening. The applicant has not proven the conditional use permit will not be injurious to

3479
04:36:29,175 --> 04:36:33,135
the use and enjoyment of other property in the immediate vicinity for the purposes

3480
04:36:33,535 --> 04:36:37,375
already permitted and therefore should be denied. And if anyone wanted to know about living

3481
04:36:37,575 --> 04:36:41,415
next to a quarry, I used to live in chesterfield county, um, in the

3482
04:36:41,615 --> 04:36:45,575
highlands community directly next to a quarry. It did not affect my life in any

3483
04:36:45,775 --> 04:36:48,935
way. , thank you. Thank you.

3484
04:36:51,475 --> 04:36:55,165
all right. Uh, we will take a five to seven minute

3485
04:36:55,585 --> 04:36:58,925
recess. Thank you. , no specifics.

3486
04:37:06,305 --> 04:37:06,305
oh,

3487
04:47:23,045 --> 04:47:26,895
again, I'll be here past the 11th. 15 mm-hmm . Mm-hmm

3488
04:47:27,355 --> 04:47:29,385
. Appreciate. Alright, good.

3489
04:47:31,445 --> 04:47:35,215
let's hope we can get over this. Keep it going. You do what? You,

3490
04:47:35,775 --> 04:47:38,315
you do you . I don't want

3491
04:47:41,455 --> 04:47:43,295
that's great. Alicia kaiser 10.

3492
04:47:48,415 --> 04:47:49,075
can I give it a minute?

3493
04:47:52,785 --> 04:47:55,345
keep going. Okay. Jose leandro

3494
04:48:06,955 --> 04:48:10,765
600, but I, I believe it's less than 500 foot from the station.

3495
04:48:12,015 --> 04:48:15,965
'cause my house is like a hundred foot from the property line. And, uh, they

3496
04:48:16,395 --> 04:48:20,275
try to propose this, uh, buffer, uh, protection. But

3497
04:48:20,495 --> 04:48:24,365
how they gonna maintain this in the wintertime when this all the leaves fell

3498
04:48:24,655 --> 04:48:28,425
down? You know, and I have three kids and they spend

3499
04:48:28,775 --> 04:48:32,015
the most time on the outside, you know, and, uh,

3500
04:48:33,055 --> 04:48:36,945
it's not safe because they want inspection. The ammo they bring

3501
04:48:37,185 --> 04:48:40,945
in, you know, I attend this stuff before, you know, I, I

3502
04:48:41,225 --> 04:48:45,105
I many times and I sponsor the am you know,

3503
04:48:45,285 --> 04:48:48,975
buy like eight bucks, you know, 8,000 round. And, uh,

3504
04:48:49,495 --> 04:48:53,225
we bring that thing in without inspection and burn

3505
04:48:53,515 --> 04:48:56,615
everything in a couple hours, you know? And, uh,

3506
04:48:57,585 --> 04:49:01,435
it's not safe. You know, if someone wanna bring their box shot, my kids can be dead right

3507
04:49:01,715 --> 04:49:05,355
there or me. And, uh, it's

3508
04:49:05,825 --> 04:49:09,825
how this is gonna work. It's too close to the house, you know? And,

3509
04:49:10,065 --> 04:49:13,965
uh, I'm not, don't build a house yet, you know, I still

3510
04:49:14,125 --> 04:49:17,765
have a pool to put over there how will be put a pool next to,

3511
04:49:18,145 --> 04:49:21,585
you know, you're gonna be withdraw the water for you can avoid that noise, you

3512
04:49:22,175 --> 04:49:25,995
know? And, uh, it's a lot of and, uh, mo

3513
04:49:26,215 --> 04:49:30,015
stuff. I, I am, um, gonna bring the animals, like the horses already start

3514
04:49:30,255 --> 04:49:34,205
fancy the proper, but it's, nobody's gonna bring the

3515
04:49:34,365 --> 04:49:37,295
horses to live, you know, live next to the sugar range.

3516
04:49:38,685 --> 04:49:42,525
you know, it's, I'm just trying to cover, you know, say what I, my

3517
04:49:42,745 --> 04:49:46,385
concern. But my neighbors already bring everything, all the concerns, you know.

3518
04:49:47,205 --> 04:49:50,745
but this question about safety, what they gonna build right there, the noise,

3519
04:49:51,895 --> 04:49:55,625
it's my house is a building on top of the hill. I can hear the hallway, I can see the cars

3520
04:49:55,965 --> 04:49:59,945
on the hallway, and they're gonna be between us. It's, I mean,

3521
04:50:00,025 --> 04:50:03,825
it's not safe at all. I'm

3522
04:50:04,045 --> 04:50:07,765
just high considerate you guys take that, you know, my safe because after

3523
04:50:08,145 --> 04:50:11,825
my kids, you know, got killed right there would not point to do

3524
04:50:12,245 --> 04:50:16,045
anything, you know, if this got approved, I cannot

3525
04:50:16,355 --> 04:50:20,005
live there anymore. Nobody can live in the house with this noise with the

3526
04:50:20,395 --> 04:50:24,365
16 station. Shoot two times that, you know, I tend this

3527
04:50:24,665 --> 04:50:27,155
all the time. I know how this work. It's pretty loud,

3528
04:50:28,805 --> 04:50:32,725
you know, I just wanted to make sure you, you know, thank you guys for your

3529
04:50:32,845 --> 04:50:36,135
time. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Sharon valencia.

3530
04:50:42,085 --> 04:50:45,260
good evening, madam chair and commissioners. My name is sharon valencia.

3531
04:50:46,465 --> 04:50:49,955
my husband and I live at 4 9 6 2 3 chop road

3532
04:50:50,625 --> 04:50:54,435
in, uh, well, obviously in goochland, although it

3533
04:50:54,635 --> 04:50:58,195
says louisa for mailing, um, we're like located

3534
04:50:58,695 --> 04:51:02,275
at the corner of three chopped and walton road.

3535
04:51:03,615 --> 04:51:07,065
um, the vsp proposed park

3536
04:51:07,735 --> 04:51:11,555
is, um, a half a mile from my home. If I stand

3537
04:51:11,835 --> 04:51:15,825
on my back deck, I can see the property. Um, which doesn't make

3538
04:51:15,985 --> 04:51:19,975
me happy. Um, I'm a, I'm

3539
04:51:20,195 --> 04:51:23,955
a gun owner, my husband is, my children are, their father

3540
04:51:24,415 --> 04:51:28,275
is, he's a trooper. He taught them to shoot, he taught them hunting.

3541
04:51:29,655 --> 04:51:33,595
he taught them gun safety, as I'm sure my, my rural,

3542
04:51:34,215 --> 04:51:38,155
um, neighbors do the same with their children. So I

3543
04:51:38,275 --> 04:51:41,195
know, I'm not sure whose children this is supposed to benefit.

3544
04:51:42,515 --> 04:51:46,205
I can let you know that my thoroughbreds that

3545
04:51:46,535 --> 04:51:50,355
I had, um, less than a year ago, did not take kindly

3546
04:51:50,795 --> 04:51:54,735
to the hunting going on near us. But those are my neighbors

3547
04:51:54,895 --> 04:51:58,895
and that's their property. So we lived with it. But now we're getting

3548
04:51:59,015 --> 04:52:02,515
ready to bring ponies, which are even more high strung than, um,

3549
04:52:03,095 --> 04:52:06,555
thoroughbreds, I think. And they're gonna react the same way

3550
04:52:07,275 --> 04:52:10,765
as the livestock, the wildlife, the family pets.

3551
04:52:11,715 --> 04:52:15,495
my neighbors, the neighbor's children. We moved out

3552
04:52:15,745 --> 04:52:18,355
from glen allen to be rural,

3553
04:52:20,205 --> 04:52:24,185
to not have to put curtains on, um, the windows. So that when we

3554
04:52:24,305 --> 04:52:28,295
looked out at night, it was pitch black and limited noise,

3555
04:52:28,945 --> 04:52:31,485
and we appreciate that. Um,

3556
04:52:33,165 --> 04:52:36,585
you know, I got to choose my property, okay?

3557
04:52:37,615 --> 04:52:41,435
and when I chose my property, I knew that I could hear I 64

3558
04:52:42,705 --> 04:52:46,675
from my property. I knew that I could hear the car racing on the

3559
04:52:47,035 --> 04:52:50,545
occasional saturday nights on broad street. I knew that, okay,

3560
04:52:51,545 --> 04:52:53,525
what? I didn't know that there would be a non-profit,

3561
04:52:55,875 --> 04:52:59,725
um, business coming in less than a half a mile from my home,

3562
04:53:00,705 --> 04:53:04,455
which brings no revenue to gland county.

3563
04:53:05,875 --> 04:53:09,815
so I just wanna know where the benefit is, and I stand with my

3564
04:53:10,255 --> 04:53:13,285
neighbors on walton road when I say, please deny this application.

3565
04:53:14,785 --> 04:53:18,715
thank you for your time. Thank you, kara

3566
04:53:19,285 --> 04:53:23,145
larson. Good evening.

3567
04:53:23,445 --> 04:53:26,905
my name is kara larson. I live at 4 6 3 8 walton road.

3568
04:53:27,765 --> 04:53:31,665
and, uh, speaking of a nonprofit that will not be bringing

3569
04:53:32,185 --> 04:53:36,145
economic revenue to the county, vsp as a nonprofit

3570
04:53:37,015 --> 04:53:40,305
will be tax exempt since they are planning on selling

3571
04:53:41,145 --> 04:53:44,945
firearms and renting firearms and selling munition, then there will be

3572
04:53:45,275 --> 04:53:49,025
some sales tax revenue that will go into the county. But this is

3573
04:53:49,485 --> 04:53:53,435
a measly amount. We've been told at neighborhood meetings that

3574
04:53:54,145 --> 04:53:57,525
the park would bring in customers to gland's, current

3575
04:53:58,285 --> 04:54:01,285
restaurants and hotels. To that, I say

3576
04:54:02,355 --> 04:54:05,995
what hotels, because last time I checked, the closest

3577
04:54:06,975 --> 04:54:10,905
chain hotel is either in short pump or in

3578
04:54:11,135 --> 04:54:14,895
zions crossroads, 14 miles away. The closest equivalent

3579
04:54:15,785 --> 04:54:19,345
is pleasant farm, llc, which is more akin to an airbnb

3580
04:54:20,025 --> 04:54:23,885
and not likely to be used by groups, especially groups

3581
04:54:24,435 --> 04:54:28,375
chaperoning children coming for a tournament or other such event

3582
04:54:28,785 --> 04:54:32,605
at the sports park, a search on google go maps for nearby restaurants

3583
04:54:32,965 --> 04:54:36,805
that were not gas stations, which while they do serve food and they

3584
04:54:37,005 --> 04:54:40,995
do serve at haydenville very good food, they do not have seating.

3585
04:54:41,785 --> 04:54:45,005
and as someone who has been a youth chaperone for youth events,

3586
04:54:45,945 --> 04:54:49,945
you want those kids sat, you preferably do not want them sat in

3587
04:54:50,165 --> 04:54:54,035
the rental car eating their food. And the nearest fast food

3588
04:54:54,645 --> 04:54:58,645
restaurant would be dairy queen 10 miles away, or hardee's here

3589
04:54:58,805 --> 04:55:01,885
at the courthouse 14 miles away. And again, zion's crossroads

3590
04:55:03,405 --> 04:55:07,405
14 miles away and out of the county is also another source

3591
04:55:07,865 --> 04:55:11,765
of restaurant options. And so with all of

3592
04:55:11,885 --> 04:55:15,465
these in mind, I do not see any way that there is

3593
04:55:16,025 --> 04:55:19,945
actual measurable economic boost to

3594
04:55:20,165 --> 04:55:24,125
the county because okay, they might be bringing in a few people to get

3595
04:55:24,305 --> 04:55:28,165
gas, get a few snacks at the gas station. There might be people who would be going to

3596
04:55:28,365 --> 04:55:32,185
the food trucks, invited to the sports park, but there's nothing in

3597
04:55:32,405 --> 04:55:36,365
the area that would actually attract them. There is nothing in the area that would actually

3598
04:55:36,455 --> 04:55:39,925
bring in reasonable county tax revenue. Thank you.

3599
04:55:41,135 --> 04:55:44,495
thank you. Caleb shortridge.

3600
04:55:53,745 --> 04:55:57,495
hello, my name is caleb shortridge. Uh, 2 4 8 7 juts bay road,

3601
04:55:58,765 --> 04:56:02,735
palatan. Um, I can understand people's,

3602
04:56:03,315 --> 04:56:06,255
uh, emotions and saying not in my backyard,

3603
04:56:07,355 --> 04:56:11,335
but I did have a shooting range in my backyard. Uh, I

3604
04:56:11,455 --> 04:56:15,205
grew up right next to where the palatan chapter four

3605
04:56:15,615 --> 04:56:19,575
h used to practice. Um, there's a ski range and a

3606
04:56:19,695 --> 04:56:23,655
rifle range about 500 yards away from my house I grew up

3607
04:56:23,815 --> 04:56:27,815
in. And we didn't see this as an issue. Later, I would

3608
04:56:28,445 --> 04:56:32,175
move on to join paan four h. I had to unfortunately

3609
04:56:32,915 --> 04:56:36,755
sit on the waiting list for several years because we were very limited in

3610
04:56:36,975 --> 04:56:40,735
facilities. So I see the opportunity that the sports park

3611
04:56:41,105 --> 04:56:44,545
can bring to the gland community that would allow, uh,

3612
04:56:45,645 --> 04:56:49,465
possibly four h kids, boy scouts, et cetera, to

3613
04:56:50,025 --> 04:56:53,755
use this facility and bring more kids into the shooting sports. Something

3614
04:56:54,365 --> 04:56:58,285
that's very impactful to my life. I shot, uh, competitively in

3615
04:56:58,485 --> 04:57:02,035
high school, took that into collegiate, um, and just

3616
04:57:03,565 --> 04:57:07,525
unfathomable about of, um, life lessons

3617
04:57:07,915 --> 04:57:11,525
that I've learned through the shooting sports. And I would hope the same opportunity

3618
04:57:12,045 --> 04:57:15,825
would be afforded to other kids. So there is a benefit in

3619
04:57:16,115 --> 04:57:19,025
this sports park. There may be inconveniences

3620
04:57:20,345 --> 04:57:24,285
as any project may experience, but I want you

3621
04:57:24,405 --> 04:57:28,405
to understand that there will be an impact to the community in a

3622
04:57:28,725 --> 04:57:31,765
positive manner. Um, so thank you for your time.

3623
04:57:32,895 --> 04:57:36,845
thank you, uh, phil murray.

3624
04:57:42,475 --> 04:57:45,545
good evening, madam chair and members of the, uh,

3625
04:57:46,615 --> 04:57:50,465
commission. My name is phil murray, and I reside at 1 2 8 6 7

3626
04:57:51,855 --> 04:57:53,715
holly lane in mannequin.

3627
04:57:55,925 --> 04:57:59,125
I appreciate the opportunity, I appreciate the opportunity to speak

3628
04:58:00,065 --> 04:58:03,915
on this project brought forth by virginia sports park, and I'll

3629
04:58:04,205 --> 04:58:08,065
speak on the issue of hours of operation for

3630
04:58:08,285 --> 04:58:11,645
this proposed facility. There seems to be

3631
04:58:12,515 --> 04:58:15,305
continued confusion about what the hours are.

3632
04:58:17,075 --> 04:58:19,695
operating hours are not the same as shooting hours.

3633
04:58:21,505 --> 04:58:25,385
the facility needs time to set up before shooting and

3634
04:58:25,605 --> 04:58:29,335
clean up after shooting is ceased. Shooting hours

3635
04:58:29,785 --> 04:58:33,565
are tuesday through sunday, 9:00 am to sunset.

3636
04:58:37,735 --> 04:58:41,665
there is no nighttime shooting, and it's not dawn to

3637
04:58:41,995 --> 04:58:45,485
dusk. There is no shooting 365

3638
04:58:46,985 --> 04:58:50,735
days a year that we've heard so much of no

3639
04:58:51,275 --> 04:58:55,195
shooting. 365 days a year. Sporting clays are closed,

3640
04:58:56,295 --> 04:59:00,035
um, to the public on mondays, which is reserved

3641
04:59:00,515 --> 04:59:03,795
for tournaments only. And should there be a tournament,

3642
04:59:04,995 --> 04:59:08,855
it usually lasts two hours and is generally scheduled in the mornings.

3643
04:59:12,535 --> 04:59:16,535
the facility will be closed on new year's day, thanksgiving day,

3644
04:59:17,795 --> 04:59:21,565
christmas and easter. It will be open

3645
04:59:22,185 --> 04:59:26,145
on memorial day, labor day, veterans day and

3646
04:59:26,395 --> 04:59:27,085
president's day.

3647
04:59:32,015 --> 04:59:35,135
there seems to be a misconception that sporting clays,

3648
04:59:36,245 --> 04:59:39,965
sporting clay parks produce a continuous barrage of

3649
04:59:40,455 --> 04:59:44,375
gunfire from morning to dusk, 365 days

3650
04:59:44,785 --> 04:59:48,785
a year. That could be, that could, that could not be further

3651
04:59:49,255 --> 04:59:52,555
from the truth. Perhaps the best comparative

3652
04:59:53,605 --> 04:59:56,725
analysis of a sporting clay park is a golf course

3653
04:59:57,995 --> 05:00:01,965
similar to a golf course. A sporting clay park sees a variance

3654
05:00:02,445 --> 05:00:06,135
of attendance during weekdays as compared to traffic inter,

3655
05:00:06,665 --> 05:00:10,405
uh, is intermittent during weekdays, and shows somewhat increase

3656
05:00:10,825 --> 05:00:14,435
during the weekend. A typical round of sporting

3657
05:00:14,845 --> 05:00:18,755
clays takes a person approximately two hours. Usually

3658
05:00:19,545 --> 05:00:23,445
the patron departs shortly after completing the course. Now, as

3659
05:00:23,605 --> 05:00:27,165
a result, traffic is anticipated to be light or at minimum,

3660
05:00:29,545 --> 05:00:33,365
it is my understanding that vsp for projects

3661
05:00:33,925 --> 05:00:37,525
20 to 25 patrons during the weekday and 40

3662
05:00:38,105 --> 05:00:40,985
to 70 during the week, uh, weekend day.

3663
05:00:42,725 --> 05:00:45,485
additionally, during winter months on inclement weather,

3664
05:00:47,495 --> 05:00:51,385
inclement weather days, statistically the activity

3665
05:00:52,045 --> 05:00:55,295
of sporting clay courses is much less

3666
05:00:56,565 --> 05:01:00,365
and is weather dependent. Thank you for the opportunity

3667
05:01:00,905 --> 05:01:04,765
to speak to you tonight, and I urge you to vote for this,

3668
05:01:05,145 --> 05:01:09,005
uh, this evening to approve this project. Thank you very much.

3669
05:01:09,695 --> 05:01:10,045
thank you

3670
05:01:18,955 --> 05:01:22,725
members of the planning commission. Thank you for the opportunity to speak this evening.

3671
05:01:23,985 --> 05:01:27,985
my name is dave martin, 7 7 0 1 hollands road in henrico in

3672
05:01:28,235 --> 05:01:31,965
from henrico. I'm here speaking in support of the

3673
05:01:32,325 --> 05:01:36,255
virginia sports park project as an eagle scout,

3674
05:01:37,005 --> 05:01:40,545
a youth services provider, and someone who believes deeply

3675
05:01:41,225 --> 05:01:44,525
in the value of outdoor programs for young people

3676
05:01:45,345 --> 05:01:49,285
and families. Growing up, my summer camp was at

3677
05:01:49,665 --> 05:01:53,405
boy scout camp brady saunders up the road.

3678
05:01:54,855 --> 05:01:58,845
that was where I first shot my, I first shot my bow, and I first shot my,

3679
05:01:59,465 --> 05:02:02,545
I shot my first bow and arrow and fired my first shotgun.

3680
05:02:04,065 --> 05:02:07,935
scouting taught me responsibility, disciplines, safety,

3681
05:02:08,675 --> 05:02:12,455
conservation, and leadership. Those lessons were

3682
05:02:12,865 --> 05:02:16,765
not learned in a classroom. They certainly were not learned on

3683
05:02:17,165 --> 05:02:21,005
tiktok or nintendo. They were learned outdoors under

3684
05:02:21,715 --> 05:02:24,955
supervision with structure, accountability, and purpose.

3685
05:02:26,465 --> 05:02:30,315
goochland is one of those special places where people thrive on enjoying

3686
05:02:30,655 --> 05:02:34,585
the outdoors, horseback riding, fishing, hunting, farming

3687
05:02:36,395 --> 05:02:39,885
pursuits that bring families together and create lifelong memories.

3688
05:02:41,525 --> 05:02:45,225
I believe we need more opportunities for grandparents, parents, and

3689
05:02:45,645 --> 05:02:49,465
children to make those memories together, using the

3690
05:02:49,685 --> 05:02:52,805
natural resources of this county in responsible ways.

3691
05:02:54,485 --> 05:02:57,085
virginia sports park offers this opportunity that opportunity

3692
05:02:58,915 --> 05:03:02,395
facilities like this build lifelong lessons through discipline, sport,

3693
05:03:03,245 --> 05:03:07,215
sports, such as arch archery and shooting sports. They

3694
05:03:07,505 --> 05:03:10,585
emphasize safety, focus, and patience.

3695
05:03:11,535 --> 05:03:14,645
they teach respect and personal responsibility.

3696
05:03:16,515 --> 05:03:19,985
these are not casual activities. They are structured,

3697
05:03:20,785 --> 05:03:24,385
supervised, and professionally managed facilities like this

3698
05:03:25,125 --> 05:03:29,105
are essential. As someone who works with youth, I can tell

3699
05:03:29,265 --> 05:03:32,305
you that not every child thrives on traditional team sports

3700
05:03:33,625 --> 05:03:37,445
programs like this reach kids who need a different path to

3701
05:03:37,665 --> 05:03:41,355
confidence and growth. They provide belonging, skill

3702
05:03:41,945 --> 05:03:44,505
building and mentorship in a controlled environment.

3703
05:03:46,185 --> 05:03:49,945
I would also, oh, that's it for that. I would also like to respectfully

3704
05:03:50,545 --> 05:03:54,545
address the question before you tonight. I urge this commission to

3705
05:03:54,705 --> 05:03:58,705
make a decision and not defer. Deferral does not help the

3706
05:03:58,905 --> 05:04:02,745
youth and families who could benefit from this project. It does not help

3707
05:04:02,925 --> 05:04:06,345
the applicant, and it does not serve the public interest.

3708
05:04:07,265 --> 05:04:11,165
scouting taught me that leadership requires the courtesy to act,

3709
05:04:11,725 --> 05:04:15,265
to make decisions based on standards, evidence, and fairness,

3710
05:04:16,045 --> 05:04:19,105
and to do so in a timely way so others can benefit.

3711
05:04:20,525 --> 05:04:24,475
my understanding is that the commission will determine whether this project meets

3712
05:04:24,825 --> 05:04:28,765
zoning standards and serves the public fairly and

3713
05:04:28,985 --> 05:04:32,865
consistently. Making a decision allows the process to move forward

3714
05:04:33,185 --> 05:04:37,045
through its national natural conclusion. That is how I tru

3715
05:04:37,515 --> 05:04:41,335
trust in local government is maintained. Thank you for

3716
05:04:41,555 --> 05:04:44,115
your time and service. Thank you,

3717
05:04:45,955 --> 05:04:49,665
chris bracket. And then if we could have to the front,

3718
05:04:49,965 --> 05:04:53,675
morris grimes, mike callan, wayne menti,

3719
05:04:54,495 --> 05:04:58,265
herb tci jr. Manny alvarez, walt raymond.

3720
05:05:01,375 --> 05:05:04,545
wow, good evening. Almost morning .

3721
05:05:05,535 --> 05:05:09,275
um, I didn't prepare anything tonight. Uh, I I I just wanted

3722
05:05:09,615 --> 05:05:13,595
to, uh, voice my opposition of this. Uh, I'm sorry, I

3723
05:05:13,835 --> 05:05:17,475
I didn't start with my address. So, chris, bracket , 4 0 5 0 lake killarney.

3724
05:05:18,075 --> 05:05:21,755
I am roughly within two miles of the proposed, uh, facility.

3725
05:05:22,535 --> 05:05:26,315
um, you know, I'm a family of seven. I have five kids under

3726
05:05:26,555 --> 05:05:30,035
the age of eight when they can shoot a gun, every single one of 'em will.

3727
05:05:31,045 --> 05:05:34,835
maybe not with beer in the facility, but, uh, at some

3728
05:05:35,085 --> 05:05:37,545
point, I, I, I really think that, um,

3729
05:05:40,505 --> 05:05:44,145
I, I really think there's a great idea, but where it's going to,

3730
05:05:44,565 --> 05:05:48,305
you, you hear tonight, I am so proud of my fellow neighbor. Everybody has come

3731
05:05:48,705 --> 05:05:51,785
together. I'm meeting new people. This is just not the right area.

3732
05:05:52,725 --> 05:05:56,655
there. There has to be a better solution. I don't know how to provide

3733
05:05:56,935 --> 05:06:00,895
that, but there's just, this is, to them, it is just a business deal.

3734
05:06:01,365 --> 05:06:05,175
they're all gonna go back to richmond midlothian. They're gonna go all over. This is our lives,

3735
05:06:06,595 --> 05:06:10,495
you know, this is will impact us forever. And this is generations of family

3736
05:06:10,925 --> 05:06:14,795
with, you know, with multiple kids everywhere. I, I, I just

3737
05:06:15,175 --> 05:06:18,595
ask and plead that there has to be a better option.

3738
05:06:19,535 --> 05:06:23,435
and I, I, I really hope that you, uh, reject this proposal.

3739
05:06:23,765 --> 05:06:25,915
thank you very much for your time. Thank you.

3740
05:06:27,965 --> 05:06:28,405
I'm morris grimes.

3741
05:06:31,975 --> 05:06:35,755
uh, I'm definitely not morris rims madam chair. Um, morris rims and mike colon

3742
05:06:36,535 --> 05:06:40,515
are with glin gun works. Their alarm just went off and they had to run right out

3743
05:06:40,715 --> 05:06:44,395
the door. They're asking if they, they're coming back, if they could just still speak

3744
05:06:44,775 --> 05:06:48,595
and reserve their time if, if the public comment is still open at that time. Yes. Thank you. I appreciate

3745
05:06:48,875 --> 05:06:51,345
it. Thank you. Um, wayne menti,

3746
05:06:54,715 --> 05:06:55,275
herb deci.

3747
05:07:00,105 --> 05:07:03,945
I'm herb deci jr. From 1 3 9 3 0 elm

3748
05:07:04,285 --> 05:07:08,105
stead road, middle . I had prepared notes, but

3749
05:07:08,385 --> 05:07:11,975
I'm now gonna speak more or less, but extemporaneously commenting

3750
05:07:12,645 --> 05:07:16,625
on some of the things I've already heard tonight. Okay. We

3751
05:07:16,845 --> 05:07:20,665
talked about children not being available. I'm a member of cavalier. We

3752
05:07:20,885 --> 05:07:24,225
have plenty of children. I don't know where they're getting them from.

3753
05:07:25,185 --> 05:07:29,065
I don't know how they get there. But when I go out to shoot, I see children,

3754
05:07:29,685 --> 05:07:33,255
groups of children, organized groups of children. Okay?

3755
05:07:35,005 --> 05:07:38,875
so we have got 'em. I suppose you would be able to get

3756
05:07:39,035 --> 05:07:42,045
them too. We talked about safety.

3757
05:07:43,425 --> 05:07:46,935
safety has come up several times. Do you think

3758
05:07:48,015 --> 05:07:51,925
we want to be unsafe to each other? We're the

3759
05:07:52,045 --> 05:07:55,945
ones standing right there. You think that we're going to

3760
05:07:56,165 --> 05:07:59,865
let, we should never let a, any projectile

3761
05:08:00,465 --> 05:08:04,285
coming out of our, our guns go off the property. Now,

3762
05:08:04,505 --> 05:08:08,345
there was some talk about that earlier today, but I, I can assure

3763
05:08:08,705 --> 05:08:12,675
you, it's not going to happen. We don't want it to happen.

3764
05:08:15,365 --> 05:08:19,355
okay? Now, a lot of this comes down to

3765
05:08:20,545 --> 05:08:23,675
noise. And we want this study. We want that study.

3766
05:08:25,145 --> 05:08:27,915
this is my fourth time getting involved in something like this.

3767
05:08:29,425 --> 05:08:33,365
okay? Noise is calculated on log grid measured

3768
05:08:33,485 --> 05:08:37,375
on a logarithmic scale. It's nonlinear. So it's not, whether

3769
05:08:37,925 --> 05:08:41,095
it's 37 or 42 or 52 or whatever it is,

3770
05:08:43,635 --> 05:08:47,605
it's because now you can stand in your backyard. All we're doing is

3771
05:08:47,765 --> 05:08:51,725
assigning a number to what you've already heard, or you can

3772
05:08:51,885 --> 05:08:54,685
easily hear, hear did you hear the noise?

3773
05:08:55,955 --> 05:08:58,145
okay. Now,

3774
05:09:00,125 --> 05:09:04,015
some comments about drinking. We're not gonna drink and shoot guns

3775
05:09:05,145 --> 05:09:09,005
at the same time. We talked about fundraisers. Some of the fundraisers

3776
05:09:09,735 --> 05:09:13,405
being done, were done by the goochland rotary club, but they were done somewhere

3777
05:09:13,765 --> 05:09:17,755
else. I have to be quick. Okay? Comments were

3778
05:09:18,045 --> 05:09:21,925
made of shooting underpowered, uh, a low powered ammunition. And the

3779
05:09:22,085 --> 05:09:25,485
example was shooting high powered ammunition. Most people don't shoot,

3780
05:09:26,465 --> 05:09:30,075
they shoot. The more of 'em will shoot low than high. I shoot one ounce.

3781
05:09:31,305 --> 05:09:33,395
okay, let me see what else I've got here.

3782
05:09:35,905 --> 05:09:39,825
I hear the, here are the ra, the, the term gun range used gun range, gun range,

3783
05:09:40,085 --> 05:09:44,065
gun range that has specific meaning to people who actually

3784
05:09:44,145 --> 05:09:47,545
shoot on gun ranges. This is not a gun range in the traditional

3785
05:09:48,225 --> 05:09:52,145
sense in that we're not shooting rifles and pistols, which have

3786
05:09:52,385 --> 05:09:54,485
different sound characteristics. Uh,

3787
05:09:57,315 --> 05:10:00,865
360 shot fall. We're generally shooting

3788
05:10:01,325 --> 05:10:04,525
within a confined area. You can't, you step into a shoot box

3789
05:10:05,445 --> 05:10:09,305
and you can't turn, can't turn with the gun. You can't get it

3790
05:10:09,485 --> 05:10:13,045
around behind you. You load when you're standing in the chute box.

3791
05:10:13,695 --> 05:10:17,625
there's a, I understand. Thank you all for your consideration,

3792
05:10:18,425 --> 05:10:22,265
. I appreciate all of y'all that have spoken tonight, even though I

3793
05:10:22,585 --> 05:10:25,305
disagree with many of you. Thank you. Y'all have a nice night. Thank you.

3794
05:10:27,195 --> 05:10:29,345
manny alvarez. How does you know yet?

3795
05:10:34,215 --> 05:10:37,985
shocked madam chair, members of the commission, thank you for being

3796
05:10:38,285 --> 05:10:42,145
out here. I know you're tired. I just want to, we heard a lot about

3797
05:10:42,525 --> 05:10:46,455
ora packs this evening, and I was in your seat when

3798
05:10:46,845 --> 05:10:50,725
on the board of supervisors when that hearing came up. And if,

3799
05:10:50,965 --> 05:10:54,685
uh, you're going to try to beat our record, you need to be here till about 2:30 am mm.

3800
05:10:55,615 --> 05:10:59,505
hopefully you're not . But anyway, I, I had some notes, but I want

3801
05:10:59,705 --> 05:11:03,705
to respond to some of the things that I heard tonight. One of them

3802
05:11:03,885 --> 05:11:07,075
was, or packs, um, or packs.

3803
05:11:07,965 --> 05:11:11,625
we put a lot of restrictions on it, and because of that, it never

3804
05:11:12,145 --> 05:11:15,825
happened. If I had to go back and do it again, I would not have voted

3805
05:11:16,445 --> 05:11:20,225
so many restrictions into it because I thought it was a good facility.

3806
05:11:20,485 --> 05:11:24,335
but we kind of heard the, a lot of the emotional comments from

3807
05:11:24,625 --> 05:11:28,535
people. Nobody would've heard orax, maybe paan

3808
05:11:28,825 --> 05:11:32,665
might have. Um, the, mr.

3809
05:11:33,095 --> 05:11:36,905
dyson did a great job with his data, but

3810
05:11:37,385 --> 05:11:40,425
one of the things he mentioned was a lot of the other ranges, um,

3811
05:11:41,635 --> 05:11:45,405
skit shooting ranges were built when there were no homes around them.

3812
05:11:46,445 --> 05:11:50,215
yet, hundreds of homes were built around the ranges. So that, that

3813
05:11:50,505 --> 05:11:54,235
means that the range itself didn't affect property values and didn't scare

3814
05:11:54,585 --> 05:11:58,505
people from building next to them. Um, one thing

3815
05:11:58,665 --> 05:12:02,245
that I have fought for, and I think you guys agree with, and

3816
05:12:02,745 --> 05:12:06,505
I know you do, is we need to preserve the rural nature of the county.

3817
05:12:07,365 --> 05:12:11,035
and in order to do that, we need to allow people to have some value

3818
05:12:11,535 --> 05:12:14,865
from their land. Farming is not, uh, an easy,

3819
05:12:15,765 --> 05:12:19,715
uh, profession. I'm also a member of cavalier. Uh, we've

3820
05:12:20,065 --> 05:12:23,785
heard a lot about comparisons. In ca cavalier, you can shoot

3821
05:12:24,095 --> 05:12:27,475
cannons pretty much. They have a 1500 foot range,

3822
05:12:28,405 --> 05:12:32,265
so you have to shoot something with, with quite a lot of power. And there are

3823
05:12:32,425 --> 05:12:36,265
many neighbors on the, on the road, in and around the, the location.

3824
05:12:37,415 --> 05:12:37,415
um,

3825
05:12:41,665 --> 05:12:45,465
uh, one of the things that I heard a few people mention is, uh, the

3826
05:12:45,685 --> 05:12:49,685
president's setting. As you know, zoning cases are individual

3827
05:12:50,175 --> 05:12:53,035
cases. They do not set precedent. Another,

3828
05:12:54,305 --> 05:12:58,125
um, skit shooting range across the street from this one might

3829
05:12:58,365 --> 05:13:01,565
not be approved because by then you have another one to compare with.

3830
05:13:02,385 --> 05:13:06,185
um, and so and so, so that's not an issue. And,

3831
05:13:06,625 --> 05:13:10,595
um, lead, there are, I think, nine

3832
05:13:11,395 --> 05:13:15,215
abandoned lead mines in gland. Those are mines

3833
05:13:15,565 --> 05:13:19,275
that are underground. They're a lot closer to the water tables than, than

3834
05:13:19,985 --> 05:13:23,965
any shot. And when I was campaigning for office back in 2011,

3835
05:13:25,065 --> 05:13:29,025
so 15 years ago, one of the things that I heard from a lot of people was,

3836
05:13:29,665 --> 05:13:33,345
why don't we have a place where we can shoot our guns? Not everybody in gland has

3837
05:13:33,915 --> 05:13:37,625
5, 10, 15 acres and they're not allowed to shoot in their backyard. So

3838
05:13:38,275 --> 05:13:41,725
I'll just leave you with that. Thank you for doing your job.

3839
05:13:42,525 --> 05:13:46,205
I wouldn't want it today. So, , thank you,

3840
05:13:48,715 --> 05:13:52,585
walt raymond. And then if carmela bear, landon

3841
05:13:53,005 --> 05:13:55,205
bear or ryan brown would like to come to the front.

3842
05:13:57,385 --> 05:14:00,595
good evening everybody. Uh, my name is walt raymond. I live at 46 23

3843
05:14:01,585 --> 05:14:05,475
park avenue in richmond. Uh, and I just want to express my support for

3844
05:14:05,815 --> 05:14:09,375
bsp. And you'll, excuse me, 'cause I'm on my phone. My printer wasn't working.

3845
05:14:10,075 --> 05:14:13,985
uh, the subject property is located on walton road adjacent to 64, consisting

3846
05:14:14,655 --> 05:14:18,425
of approximately 85 of almost 700 acres that lux stone has there, which

3847
05:14:18,775 --> 05:14:21,655
is currently permitted for a quarry. It's currently

3848
05:14:23,105 --> 05:14:26,955
zoned a two in the surrounding area, is characterized by

3849
05:14:27,195 --> 05:14:30,595
low density rule uses, including agriculture, residential,

3850
05:14:31,625 --> 05:14:35,305
and recreational activity. Consistent with the

3851
05:14:35,925 --> 05:14:39,545
county's rule and use framework, it immediately

3852
05:14:40,135 --> 05:14:43,025
signals compatibility. For this use, not an exception.

3853
05:14:45,185 --> 05:14:48,675
the intent of the agricultural district is to preserve rural land,

3854
05:14:49,495 --> 05:14:53,355
allow working landscapes and accommodate agricultural and recreational uses

3855
05:14:53,835 --> 05:14:57,725
that are compatible with load density development. The size

3856
05:14:57,965 --> 05:15:01,685
of this parcel, its setbacks, topography, and existing vegetation

3857
05:15:03,305 --> 05:15:06,925
and, uh, natural buffering that supports compatibility with surrounding properties.

3858
05:15:08,525 --> 05:15:12,265
the proposed use is organized, supervised, and limited in scope,

3859
05:15:12,545 --> 05:15:16,215
distinguishing it from unmanaged or, um, intensive

3860
05:15:16,825 --> 05:15:20,505
commercial activity. This is exactly how the gland

3861
05:15:20,855 --> 05:15:23,835
staff describes acceptable rule use.

3862
05:15:29,015 --> 05:15:29,995
excuse me, I lost my place.

3863
05:15:35,235 --> 05:15:39,005
this is a limited structured and supervised recreational use with defined

3864
05:15:39,365 --> 05:15:43,285
hours, condition, and conditions. It is not an open access commercial operation

3865
05:15:44,145 --> 05:15:47,915
and scale intentionally constrained to remain compatible with

3866
05:15:48,205 --> 05:15:51,465
the surrounding area. Keep in mind that, uh, we,

3867
05:15:52,275 --> 05:15:55,885
that archery for the youth will be a significant part of this project

3868
05:15:56,505 --> 05:16:00,445
and will have no impact at all on the surrounding area. Besides bringing youth, uh, both

3869
05:16:00,755 --> 05:16:04,125
education, um, and an outlet besides a nintendo

3870
05:16:05,025 --> 05:16:08,595
or getting outside and the outdoors, the application

3871
05:16:09,035 --> 05:16:12,985
includes specific conditions regarding, um, hours, frequency,

3872
05:16:14,035 --> 05:16:18,015
supervision and mitigation. Those conditions provide enforceable limits and

3873
05:16:18,235 --> 05:16:22,125
give the county ongoing oversight. Vsp has

3874
05:16:22,345 --> 05:16:26,225
responded to the neighbors who are concerned by ensuring that the concerns are

3875
05:16:26,425 --> 05:16:30,275
addressed through reasonable conditions and obje and objectable standards, while

3876
05:16:30,695 --> 05:16:34,345
also recognizing that zoning anticipates lawful rule activity

3877
05:16:35,085 --> 05:16:38,965
may not be universally preferred. As far as establishing

3878
05:16:39,605 --> 05:16:43,575
a precedent is concerned. This reinforces the principle that rural

3879
05:16:43,925 --> 05:16:47,745
recreational uses are evaluated based on zoning intent and

3880
05:16:48,165 --> 05:16:51,645
evidence, not opposition alone. Each further application would still

3881
05:16:52,355 --> 05:16:56,265
need to be judged on its own merit denial would require fi

3882
05:16:56,585 --> 05:17:00,275
uh, findings to the use fails, excuse me,

3883
05:17:00,715 --> 05:17:04,615
findings that use the fails to meet zoning standards or

3884
05:17:04,835 --> 05:17:08,715
creates unreasonable impacts by supported by evidence. Absent that

3885
05:17:08,915 --> 05:17:12,755
denial risk, inconsistent inconsistency with past practices

3886
05:17:12,995 --> 05:17:16,635
and zoning intent. I'll stop there 'cause it's late. Thank you guys for your time. Thank you.

3887
05:17:19,955 --> 05:17:23,925
carmela beer. Landon beer,

3888
05:17:25,705 --> 05:17:29,585
ryan brown, um, and morris grimes

3889
05:17:30,865 --> 05:17:31,825
or mike callan.

3890
05:17:42,115 --> 05:17:45,885
good evening. Appreciate everyone staying late. Uh, I'm here to speak

3891
05:17:46,385 --> 05:17:49,325
as a, I'm sorry. My name is mike kalan and I'm 29 78

3892
05:17:50,405 --> 05:17:54,005
river road west. Um, I'm here to speak as a business owner in the area.

3893
05:17:54,665 --> 05:17:58,645
uh, and the impact for businesses, uh, I own gland gun works

3894
05:17:58,845 --> 05:18:02,365
and as a business owner, I obviously, I see this as being a, a big positive to

3895
05:18:03,065 --> 05:18:06,685
our industry. Um, I'm an an avid clay shooter.

3896
05:18:07,385 --> 05:18:10,785
uh, I love archery. And if many people have mentioned, um,

3897
05:18:11,965 --> 05:18:15,485
I think the archery side is getting overlooked because archery is such a, a great

3898
05:18:16,125 --> 05:18:19,825
resource for, for children, uh, and adults alike. It teaches, uh,

3899
05:18:20,285 --> 05:18:23,425
a lot of great things about, um, safety and

3900
05:18:24,325 --> 05:18:28,055
structure and things of that nature. And I think this would be a, a great, uh, asset

3901
05:18:28,425 --> 05:18:32,245
to the county, um, with us out, not having to take our business outside

3902
05:18:32,605 --> 05:18:36,345
of the county. Uh, my family's been in goland since day

3903
05:18:36,625 --> 05:18:40,445
one. Uh, we still own and operate a family farm here in goland, and it's something

3904
05:18:40,645 --> 05:18:44,445
that we take a lot of pride in. So seeing this stuff coming to gland county and having

3905
05:18:44,725 --> 05:18:48,525
a place for children to learn firearm safety. I

3906
05:18:48,845 --> 05:18:52,685
remember the good old days when we used to have gun racks coming on our, in our trucks, going to to

3907
05:18:52,895 --> 05:18:56,865
gland middle school, and we got the day off or reverend day hunting season. And that stuff is

3908
05:18:57,085 --> 05:19:00,985
just not taught anymore. And having a place like this where children can learn proper gun

3909
05:19:01,205 --> 05:19:04,985
safety, um, proper gun handling, I think the,

3910
05:19:05,385 --> 05:19:09,155
the benefits of those things outweigh the negatives. Um, children need

3911
05:19:09,445 --> 05:19:13,205
to learn about firearms, you know, especially if you live in a rural area where people are out shooting.

3912
05:19:14,215 --> 05:19:17,905
we see a big problem in the hunting world with, with

3913
05:19:18,415 --> 05:19:22,235
gun safety. We see kids are, they're, they're not using proper

3914
05:19:22,915 --> 05:19:26,855
practices. And I think it's because of a lack of education. I don't know the,

3915
05:19:27,155 --> 05:19:31,035
the, the gentlemen that are starting this very well. I just know them just from, from coming here. But

3916
05:19:31,255 --> 05:19:35,255
what I've, I've heard multiple times is safety, safety, safety. And as a father of

3917
05:19:35,455 --> 05:19:39,295
three sons, I love that there's somebody else out that wants to teach safety to our

3918
05:19:39,735 --> 05:19:43,465
children for guns. Teach 'em a sport. That's a great sport. It's a healthy sport

3919
05:19:43,875 --> 05:19:47,755
to get 'em out. Walking around on trails and shooting guns and

3920
05:19:48,135 --> 05:19:51,995
shooting archery. Um, it's just a, a fantastic thing and it, it teaches so

3921
05:19:52,215 --> 05:19:56,135
many good things. Um, really that, that, that was all I had. So that's my

3922
05:19:56,255 --> 05:19:58,655
time. Thank you. Thank you.

3923
05:20:04,365 --> 05:20:06,475
would anyone else like to speak ?

3924
05:20:10,655 --> 05:20:14,625
I'm jim christian. I'm, I live at 1950 cartersville road, mineral

3925
05:20:15,115 --> 05:20:18,115
address. I'm two miles north of this location.

3926
05:20:19,175 --> 05:20:23,135
and lemme tell you how the sound travels a few times a month when the wind's

3927
05:20:23,415 --> 05:20:26,605
right, I can hear the interstate like it's 500 yards away

3928
05:20:27,505 --> 05:20:31,385
and it is gonna be a noise concern for oseland because when we're shooting on

3929
05:20:31,605 --> 05:20:35,605
our farm over there, I'm over a hundred acre farm. When we're shooting over there, I got a

3930
05:20:35,685 --> 05:20:38,915
friend that lives over here just, uh, east of haydenville

3931
05:20:39,835 --> 05:20:43,605
fire department. He calls me up, he says, you guys are shooting again. He can hear us

3932
05:20:44,225 --> 05:20:48,205
two miles, two and a half miles to his house. I know exactly because I got an app on my

3933
05:20:48,285 --> 05:20:51,685
phone. He tells how far these distances are and I checked it before I got here.

3934
05:20:52,395 --> 05:20:56,365
he's two and a half miles away. He can hear us shooting s***t. So you can speak

3935
05:20:56,605 --> 05:21:00,135
about a half mile all you want, put some berms up. You're not gonna stop this sound

3936
05:21:00,825 --> 05:21:04,715
and it's gonna hurt your county because most of the time the wind's carrying back

3937
05:21:05,555 --> 05:21:09,475
into the county, carrying onto this side, not north wind. Like I get when

3938
05:21:09,765 --> 05:21:13,685
I can rarely hear the interstate. Most of the time I'll be lucky in my house, it won't

3939
05:21:13,925 --> 05:21:17,765
be that noisy. And as far as the creek, it comes across our property.

3940
05:21:18,075 --> 05:21:21,815
deep creek does. And you guys are wasting your money

3941
05:21:22,155 --> 05:21:26,015
if you're gonna put that much lead dust on top of the ground. It's coming in that creek and that

3942
05:21:26,175 --> 05:21:30,095
creek has a lot of flow. And, uh, I'm gonna just call the

3943
05:21:30,215 --> 05:21:34,215
epa and put them on it. 'cause I don't want it, I don't want the noise pollution. I hate to see

3944
05:21:34,335 --> 05:21:37,895
this. The only people I see coming up here that are in favor, they don't wanna live here.

3945
05:21:38,435 --> 05:21:42,295
so your county's not benefiting at all. This is, uh, you really ought to vote

3946
05:21:42,555 --> 05:21:45,085
for it, like you live 500 yards away because

3947
05:21:46,805 --> 05:21:49,735
it's detrimental to your county. Thank you. Thank you.

3948
05:21:53,795 --> 05:21:56,345
would anyone else like to speak? I,

3949
05:21:59,595 --> 05:22:03,395
all right, I will now close the public comment period.

3950
05:22:04,355 --> 05:22:08,205
um, okay.

3951
05:22:09,875 --> 05:22:13,715
um, would the applicant like to, to speak or do, uh,

3952
05:22:14,075 --> 05:22:17,015
any, any last comments before we we start to comment?

3953
05:22:32,675 --> 05:22:36,675
I just had a couple of closing comments. Um, I know it's

3954
05:22:36,875 --> 05:22:40,535
been a very late night for everybody, and we appreciate your time. Um, uh,

3955
05:22:40,915 --> 05:22:44,695
I did get a message from ryan brown, who is the head of the division of

3956
05:22:45,235 --> 05:22:49,115
wildlife resources, and he just wanted to relate to you that if you have any

3957
05:22:49,555 --> 05:22:53,435
questions about partnering with certain programs that, uh, dwr

3958
05:22:53,995 --> 05:22:57,915
was looking to program with us, he's happy to answer those questions. He was here to basically

3959
05:22:58,615 --> 05:23:02,315
advise the, the panel of that. Um, but he

3960
05:23:02,785 --> 05:23:06,235
unfortunately had to leave. He has a meeting in the morning at seven o'clock in richmond.

3961
05:23:07,015 --> 05:23:10,835
um, I just wanted to recap pretty

3962
05:23:11,155 --> 05:23:15,145
much and just say that, you know, there's a lot that was put out, and I

3963
05:23:15,665 --> 05:23:19,625
honestly tell you that I think my brain is fried, and I don't think I could address every rebuttal that

3964
05:23:19,745 --> 05:23:23,445
that was there. But generally speaking, uh, I would say

3965
05:23:23,785 --> 05:23:27,525
the, you know, we have conducted a professional sound

3966
05:23:27,845 --> 05:23:31,685
study that is in front of you, and I know that we, we sent it to you as soon as we got

3967
05:23:31,885 --> 05:23:35,645
it. So we urge you to take a look at that as well.

3968
05:23:36,265 --> 05:23:39,245
uh, we have, uh, basically when it comes to environmental,

3969
05:23:40,785 --> 05:23:44,665
uh, as mr. Lifer said earlier that this is an issue of

3970
05:23:44,915 --> 05:23:48,725
basically to look at whether or not this is the right

3971
05:23:49,065 --> 05:23:52,865
use for the zoning. We will be governed by

3972
05:23:53,725 --> 05:23:57,615
agencies moving forward in the pod phase. In the, in the site plans, there

3973
05:23:57,965 --> 05:24:01,925
will be, uh, agencies that we have to report to get their approval on this.

3974
05:24:02,865 --> 05:24:06,645
so this, with all respect, I say this, I ask that this is

3975
05:24:07,085 --> 05:24:11,045
probably not the place where you make a decision on lead or you

3976
05:24:11,165 --> 05:24:14,945
make a, uh, and I do urge you to look at the noise. Um,

3977
05:24:16,425 --> 05:24:20,365
having said that, I I, I'm happy to answer any questions that I possibly can at this point,

3978
05:24:20,525 --> 05:24:24,525
and I'm sure you all want to go home as well, but if you have questions, we can

3979
05:24:24,825 --> 05:24:25,765
try to address it for you.

3980
05:24:28,995 --> 05:24:32,985
well, one of the things I'm wondering about is what are the hours, or

3981
05:24:33,305 --> 05:24:36,725
not necessarily the hours, but the days of operation, we are

3982
05:24:37,405 --> 05:24:41,285
actually being asked to approve here. I mean, I, I, I happy to

3983
05:24:41,445 --> 05:24:45,285
ask you that. I mean, I hear that mondays are off, or is that, are seven days

3984
05:24:45,645 --> 05:24:49,375
a week? What? No. So what's going on? So, great question. Lemme

3985
05:24:49,725 --> 05:24:53,585
clarify that for you. Yeah, so let me just leave monday off for just one second and

3986
05:24:53,805 --> 05:24:57,425
address tuesday through sunday first. Alright. Is it what? Okay. Yeah. So our,

3987
05:24:58,675 --> 05:25:02,405
what we have responded to the initially submitted and then also responded to the county.

3988
05:25:03,145 --> 05:25:06,825
and we have seceded in some, some of the timings and everything as well. Uh,

3989
05:25:07,475 --> 05:25:11,345
tuesday through sunday is what we're proposing coming back 9:00 am till sunset.

3990
05:25:12,225 --> 05:25:15,445
all right. Shooting hours, that's what we're talking about. Shooting hours.

3991
05:25:16,305 --> 05:25:20,145
we have to cease shooting before it gets dark, pretty

3992
05:25:20,565 --> 05:25:24,145
much. Mm-hmm . Um, mondays sporting clays close to

3993
05:25:24,585 --> 05:25:28,525
the public, just tournaments, then solely reserved for the

3994
05:25:28,645 --> 05:25:32,485
tournament. Okay. Tournaments we're gonna have. The tournament

3995
05:25:32,765 --> 05:25:36,655
could happen most of the time. It happens in the morning, and if it happens it's two hours. There

3996
05:25:37,005 --> 05:25:40,725
may be an afternoon, but we're not, we've also succeeded saying we're not gonna do two tournaments

3997
05:25:41,205 --> 05:25:45,015
on a monday. So there'll be one tournament, majority of them being

3998
05:25:45,365 --> 05:25:49,205
in the mornings, and it's reserved for that. Okay. Alright. That helps. Thanks.

3999
05:25:49,895 --> 05:25:53,695
thank you. . Could you clarify the difference between

4000
05:25:54,135 --> 05:25:57,845
a tournament and an event, and would you have events on monday? Also,

4001
05:26:00,195 --> 05:26:03,175
events are generally, uh, what fundraisers?

4002
05:26:04,205 --> 05:26:08,135
corporate events, uh, uh, let's say fundraisers

4003
05:26:08,455 --> 05:26:12,275
such as, uh, charitable events, uh, for the rotary, for

4004
05:26:12,495 --> 05:26:16,145
any youth organizations, basically something like that. Uh, tournament

4005
05:26:17,115 --> 05:26:20,695
is a sanction tournament, for example, by the nsca. So national sporting

4006
05:26:21,125 --> 05:26:24,625
clay association, they generally are

4007
05:26:25,225 --> 05:26:28,955
and can be sometimes larger, sometimes not. Can be, they can be 60, they

4008
05:26:29,245 --> 05:26:32,965
can be more. The thing about nsca sanctioned tournaments is that

4009
05:26:33,615 --> 05:26:37,285
we're not guaranteed to, uh, tournaments from them. They get

4010
05:26:37,805 --> 05:26:41,375
together. So almost like they're dishing out pieces of the pie almost on a monthly basis.

4011
05:26:42,265 --> 05:26:46,005
so if you have about seven sporting clay ranges, uh, within a few hours

4012
05:26:46,385 --> 05:26:50,005
in this area, they're gonna get divvied up. We may get one a month,

4013
05:26:50,945 --> 05:26:54,865
and if we don't get that, we may get one every two months. So

4014
05:26:55,665 --> 05:26:59,525
that's where that comes in basically is, is, is a sanctioned tournament.

4015
05:27:02,925 --> 05:27:06,915
fundraisers and general events are always gonna be smaller than, basically

4016
05:27:08,115 --> 05:27:11,985
they're usually 125 or less. Generally much smaller than that usually. Alright. Are

4017
05:27:12,205 --> 05:27:16,045
those monday activities though, or are those the tuesday through sunday activities? Those are generally

4018
05:27:16,245 --> 05:27:20,085
tuesday through sunday activation. Okay. Now, in the event, so monday is only

4019
05:27:20,325 --> 05:27:23,965
these tournaments, it's tournament. We have, we have asked that if, for example,

4020
05:27:24,375 --> 05:27:27,355
there is an event that can only happen, we would seek

4021
05:27:28,685 --> 05:27:31,895
a permission from the county on that. Alright. A non tournament event

4022
05:27:33,155 --> 05:27:37,085
that if somebody wants to hold and it's not something that is, they'll call

4023
05:27:37,245 --> 05:27:41,045
us, uh, thursday and say we want to have it on monday. This is well planned

4024
05:27:41,385 --> 05:27:44,565
out usually in advance. So we would seek approval on something like that.

4025
05:27:47,605 --> 05:27:51,105
does that answer your question? Yes, thank you. You, would you speak to intentions

4026
05:27:51,775 --> 05:27:54,975
with alcohol and how that would be managed? I heard that concern.

4027
05:27:56,205 --> 05:28:00,135
good question. Um, if you go to, uh, a handful

4028
05:28:00,555 --> 05:28:04,435
of places, um, where alcohol is not served

4029
05:28:05,105 --> 05:28:09,015
while they're shooting going on, first and foremost, just to be clear about that, we're not walking

4030
05:28:09,175 --> 05:28:12,895
around like bunch of rednecks walking with a can in our

4031
05:28:13,255 --> 05:28:17,165
hand shooting with guns on our hips. That's not what happens. What

4032
05:28:17,455 --> 05:28:21,015
happens is generally if there is, if there is state controls,

4033
05:28:21,575 --> 05:28:25,485
that, and the second thing is this. There has to be a, we pulled

4034
05:28:25,845 --> 05:28:29,845
a day permit, uh, uh, day license, excuse me, by the, from the a,

4035
05:28:30,045 --> 05:28:34,025
b, c. There are three commissioners that sit on the a, b, c commission. So it

4036
05:28:34,245 --> 05:28:38,115
is not an easy thing to get all the time. If there

4037
05:28:38,435 --> 05:28:42,255
is this a, let's just say eli lilly wishes, or carl max

4038
05:28:42,475 --> 05:28:45,915
wishes to hold a corporate event, they have 50 people coming for teamwork.

4039
05:28:46,665 --> 05:28:50,605
they will have a round shooting, and then after that, after shooting

4040
05:28:51,105 --> 05:28:55,035
ceases, they'll be served if the, whatever they, they're basically they

4041
05:28:55,325 --> 05:28:59,255
want at that point. Most of this is something that we don't get our

4042
05:28:59,415 --> 05:29:00,895
hands in. This will be done by outside vendors.

4043
05:29:04,385 --> 05:29:08,275
so the outside vendors lay, say a food truck that is licensed to sell alcohol

4044
05:29:09,305 --> 05:29:12,965
may show up. Alright. So you are not planning on pursuing a, a,

4045
05:29:13,445 --> 05:29:17,395
a, uh, alcohol license. If the state says

4046
05:29:17,685 --> 05:29:21,525
that even for someone else to come in and serve, that you have to get a day license, then we

4047
05:29:21,725 --> 05:29:25,035
will get a day license at that point. Alright. Okay.

4048
05:29:31,165 --> 05:29:35,165
talk to me about the, um, the, the load,

4049
05:29:36,035 --> 05:29:39,655
um, concerns with the, was it seven eights, uh, versus,

4050
05:29:40,675 --> 05:29:44,575
uh, one one and an eighth? One and an eighth? Good question section. Yeah, it was

4051
05:29:44,735 --> 05:29:48,695
on my list to discuss about rebuttals and I, I, again, I no, you're good. Thank you for reminding

4052
05:29:49,015 --> 05:29:52,915
me of that. The seven, eight and one

4053
05:29:53,135 --> 05:29:57,135
ounce are the two we shot. So the contrary to the one photo that was shown,

4054
05:29:57,915 --> 05:30:01,555
we shot two loads and we sent the picture to

4055
05:30:02,335 --> 05:30:05,895
I think miss sherry. And, uh, mr. Kim, uh, had the photo of that.

4056
05:30:06,665 --> 05:30:08,645
those are the most popular

4057
05:30:10,895 --> 05:30:14,805
loads used on a sporting clay course. And I'll tell you why that is.

4058
05:30:16,145 --> 05:30:20,075
you have a lot of people that show up with shotguns that

4059
05:30:20,385 --> 05:30:24,325
are not $200 shotguns. They might be 80,

4060
05:30:24,525 --> 05:30:28,135
$90,000 shotguns. You, you will never

4061
05:30:28,545 --> 05:30:32,045
see that person put one and an eighth load in there.

4062
05:30:32,585 --> 05:30:35,835
the one and eighth load is the range maximum.

4063
05:30:37,095 --> 05:30:41,005
could someone use it? Sure. Are you all of a sudden gonna jump

4064
05:30:41,245 --> 05:30:45,065
outta your seat, say, oh my god, what was that? No, but the,

4065
05:30:45,545 --> 05:30:49,085
the most common are seven eights and one ounce.

4066
05:30:49,985 --> 05:30:53,565
and that's what, that's basically what is used. So what we wanted to do

4067
05:30:54,105 --> 05:30:58,045
was to do a realistic live demonstration. And that is

4068
05:30:58,505 --> 05:31:02,115
the two most common loads. But we picked the worst conditions,

4069
05:31:03,005 --> 05:31:06,575
which was the coldest day. No leaves, no burns, no construction at all. So,

4070
05:31:07,175 --> 05:31:09,435
so noise obviously would travel more at that point.

4071
05:31:11,975 --> 05:31:15,595
was its, was it advantageous of you to do the lightest

4072
05:31:16,105 --> 05:31:20,055
load or should it have been the heaviest load, though? Not

4073
05:31:20,305 --> 05:31:23,025
most common could happen

4074
05:31:25,325 --> 05:31:29,305
when you did your demonstration. When we did our demonstration, we also

4075
05:31:29,745 --> 05:31:33,565
utilized the one ounce, which is used probably we

4076
05:31:33,785 --> 05:31:37,725
use seven eights and, and, and one ounce. That is the

4077
05:31:37,945 --> 05:31:41,945
most common that is used out there. But if you look up, if you just

4078
05:31:42,145 --> 05:31:46,065
were to do the anatomy of a shotgun shell and it's load, if you were

4079
05:31:46,185 --> 05:31:50,075
to google that, maybe in the first or second article that pops up,

4080
05:31:50,195 --> 05:31:54,035
you'll see seven, eights, and one ounce. The most traditional

4081
05:31:54,775 --> 05:31:58,715
and commonly used loads that are on there. So yes, we wanted to

4082
05:31:58,875 --> 05:32:02,485
use what's going to be used most often. We can't

4083
05:32:02,905 --> 05:32:06,475
stop somebody from using one and one eight because it's a realistic load, for example.

4084
05:32:07,135 --> 05:32:10,265
now probably the percentage of people using that load

4085
05:32:11,175 --> 05:32:15,115
is low. The pe the percentage of people using a combined seven eights and one

4086
05:32:15,275 --> 05:32:18,125
ounce is incredibly high. I would say probably in excess of 70%.

4087
05:32:20,185 --> 05:32:23,755
and that's a speculation. I have not pulled data on that. That's without

4088
05:32:24,245 --> 05:32:26,605
pulling data. Sure. Thank you. Yes,

4089
05:32:28,465 --> 05:32:32,465
I, I do agree that I, I think it would've been best if you brought

4090
05:32:32,825 --> 05:32:36,575
out the, the, the baddest permissible load.

4091
05:32:36,965 --> 05:32:40,825
not the most common load, if I may. Uh, it's actually a good point. In hindsight,

4092
05:32:41,325 --> 05:32:45,235
we look back, I think it may not be a bad idea to see how much noise

4093
05:32:45,585 --> 05:32:49,305
that would ed. Yeah, yeah, that's, and I, I'm not sure how much difference there

4094
05:32:49,645 --> 05:32:53,425
is, but it did sound like, I mean, I was standing with you when the neighbor was shooting

4095
05:32:53,885 --> 05:32:57,125
and you were saying that can't be permissible load. So

4096
05:32:57,965 --> 05:33:01,945
you know what I said, uh, on that, that was they were shooting from high

4097
05:33:02,185 --> 05:33:05,975
ground. That's right. You, they're shooting in our direction more

4098
05:33:06,265 --> 05:33:10,265
or less high ground. When we shot, you were down in the bowl. We were in the

4099
05:33:10,345 --> 05:33:14,345
bowl, we shot at the also from the closest station. Right. But we

4100
05:33:14,575 --> 05:33:18,565
shot out toward the away shooting away makes that big

4101
05:33:18,785 --> 05:33:22,585
of a difference. Yeah. I I I, yeah, I get it. Yeah. So I, and I would say,

4102
05:33:22,805 --> 05:33:26,525
in order to scientifically maybe answer that question, if I'm gonna put our

4103
05:33:26,945 --> 05:33:30,865
acoustic expert on the spot to say, hey, we, this is

4104
05:33:30,985 --> 05:33:34,945
what we measured, and if you used from a one ounce to a

4105
05:33:35,065 --> 05:33:38,695
went to a one in one eight ounce, this could be the

4106
05:33:39,135 --> 05:33:42,615
possible decibel rating increase. I, if I could ask mr. Thomas

4107
05:33:44,195 --> 05:33:47,795
if he's able to answer that with, sure. Come on in.

4108
05:33:48,655 --> 05:33:52,605
you feel comfortable making a off the cuff well assessment

4109
05:33:53,275 --> 05:33:57,235
there. I'll try. So it, it's hard to

4110
05:33:57,435 --> 05:34:01,005
really make that determination. All right. Without doing

4111
05:34:02,455 --> 05:34:05,595
the sampling and data. Right. Um, as I mentioned earlier,

4112
05:34:07,295 --> 05:34:11,215
you know, this was, uh, to

4113
05:34:11,435 --> 05:34:14,855
determine an exposure assessment. Uh, when exposure assessments

4114
05:34:15,515 --> 05:34:19,095
are done, it sets a base on, on what's to be

4115
05:34:19,535 --> 05:34:22,375
expected. As I indicated earlier, my recommendation

4116
05:34:23,785 --> 05:34:27,715
would be if, if this proceeded, um, to

4117
05:34:28,215 --> 05:34:32,015
do additional testing, that's one thing we discussed so that we could,

4118
05:34:32,975 --> 05:34:36,035
you know, um, have the data moving forward.

4119
05:34:37,245 --> 05:34:40,955
you'd asked the question about elevation, does it affect it? Mm-hmm . That's, that's

4120
05:34:41,275 --> 05:34:44,915
one thing you want to do is not only measure the ground level, but the elevation

4121
05:34:45,655 --> 05:34:49,435
as well. It's not gonna be much difference in my experience with the,

4122
05:34:49,695 --> 05:34:53,225
the different types of ranges. And I've dealt with police ranges, federal

4123
05:34:53,855 --> 05:34:57,295
ranges, um, in the decibel change

4124
05:34:58,215 --> 05:35:01,935
for that. But definitely loads can affect, um,

4125
05:35:02,495 --> 05:35:06,475
the change in decibel readings. But until you do the sampling, you just

4126
05:35:06,635 --> 05:35:10,555
don't have that data. Thank you. If I may add the other thing, you know, that

4127
05:35:10,795 --> 05:35:14,395
would make a difference for a, um, uh, follow up test just for our

4128
05:35:14,965 --> 05:35:18,405
baseline purposes, after, uh, say the course is constructed

4129
05:35:19,305 --> 05:35:23,245
at that point, now we have, we have berms, we have

4130
05:35:23,405 --> 05:35:27,125
vegetative buffers, we have more tree plantings, we have structures

4131
05:35:27,445 --> 05:35:31,435
that are gonna be on the property. All those will make a difference at that point as well. Yeah.

4132
05:35:33,145 --> 05:35:36,805
do you wanna make any comment about, I mean, there were, there were several people that said

4133
05:35:37,675 --> 05:35:41,645
financial benefit to the county. Like there won't be any, do you, do you want to address

4134
05:35:42,005 --> 05:35:46,005
that at all? I don't wanna get into too much detail, but the main thing about that

4135
05:35:46,205 --> 05:35:50,025
is this, this is a legitimate, yeah. It certified 5 0 1 c3 by

4136
05:35:50,245 --> 05:35:53,955
the irs code. Right. Not a very easy designation

4137
05:35:54,665 --> 05:35:58,485
to get, we spent almost a year fighting, not fighting, but going back and forth

4138
05:35:58,715 --> 05:36:02,615
with the irs and getting that the economic

4139
05:36:02,965 --> 05:36:06,855
development, this is, so this is an identified need through the survey

4140
05:36:07,805 --> 05:36:11,735
that was done for the master plan, uh, target sports. So it

4141
05:36:11,935 --> 05:36:15,655
is a priority, basically need that's been identified in the gland county

4142
05:36:16,275 --> 05:36:20,115
for its master plan for parks and rec. This will bring

4143
05:36:20,615 --> 05:36:24,465
people into the county. When you have people that come into the county, they do a lot of things. They,

4144
05:36:24,865 --> 05:36:28,645
they buy stuff in the county, they purchase gas, they stick

4145
05:36:28,995 --> 05:36:32,835
around. They may go to different venues, possibly they may go to a local brewery, they may go

4146
05:36:33,035 --> 05:36:36,635
to the winery down the road. So there are a lot of things. So there is basically

4147
05:36:37,075 --> 05:36:41,075
what I would call a, you know, a collateral, uh, increase that, that, that comes

4148
05:36:41,275 --> 05:36:44,875
into it at that point. Um, we're gonna have positions created.

4149
05:36:45,545 --> 05:36:48,995
they'll definitely be about four full-time positions,

4150
05:36:49,595 --> 05:36:53,595
starting with two go to four, and then a handful of part-time positions that'll be created in the

4151
05:36:53,715 --> 05:36:57,595
county as well. Uh, that, so a lot, a lot of benefits when it comes to

4152
05:36:57,755 --> 05:36:59,795
that part of it. So we're generating jobs,

4153
05:37:01,935 --> 05:37:05,795
if you think about it. I mean, if I've been an entrepreneur most of my life, if I can generate

4154
05:37:05,975 --> 05:37:09,955
10 jobs in each, in each company, in each location that I have, I know

4155
05:37:10,115 --> 05:37:14,075
it doesn't sound like a big number, but that's what to do. We contribute to the

4156
05:37:14,195 --> 05:37:16,075
economy. Alright, thank you. Yes, sir.

4157
05:37:19,755 --> 05:37:23,375
so a big thing is still the noise. Sorry, a big thing.

4158
05:37:23,815 --> 05:37:27,815
I have to make more noise. A big thing is still the noise. Everybody's talking about

4159
05:37:28,055 --> 05:37:31,735
it. Yes. And I think if people are comfortable that there's an acceptable

4160
05:37:32,255 --> 05:37:35,375
noise le level, a lot of other things tend to fall away.

4161
05:37:36,515 --> 05:37:40,495
um, you know, if you don't hear it, you don't see it, you don't

4162
05:37:40,695 --> 05:37:43,945
smell it, it's really not happening. Right.

4163
05:37:44,965 --> 05:37:47,525
um, except for environmental stuff. But, um,

4164
05:37:49,975 --> 05:37:53,575
what, what can you do to help people

4165
05:37:54,025 --> 05:37:57,615
feel comfortable with noise? And maybe, maybe mr. Thomas

4166
05:37:58,295 --> 05:38:02,155
is gonna get his steps in. He might have to help out with this, but, you know, I, I think all

4167
05:38:02,355 --> 05:38:05,485
of us are kind, struggling with that a little bit.

4168
05:38:07,925 --> 05:38:11,865
so there, I'll, I'll bring mr. Thomas back up. But one of the things I would say with that

4169
05:38:12,025 --> 05:38:15,865
is, is I, a shotgun sport

4170
05:38:16,215 --> 05:38:20,135
will never occur without a certain amount of noise. That's just, that is a reality.

4171
05:38:20,635 --> 05:38:24,515
we know that. So noise will be generated to what extent

4172
05:38:25,435 --> 05:38:29,145
you have to look at it, whether it's background noise or it's really irritating

4173
05:38:29,815 --> 05:38:33,335
noise at 95 decibels hitting your house. Basically

4174
05:38:33,935 --> 05:38:36,895
at that point, I think through the sound test, we have concluded

4175
05:38:38,205 --> 05:38:42,055
that the noise level generated over an eight hour course is gonna

4176
05:38:42,255 --> 05:38:45,935
be, uh, what was it? Four? I, I don't wanna speak for him, but 50 decibels,

4177
05:38:46,495 --> 05:38:50,445
something, I can't remember what it was, but much lower than anticipated.

4178
05:38:51,915 --> 05:38:55,905
right now, it may speak, I'm probably speaking at a 70 decibel, 65 to

4179
05:38:56,105 --> 05:39:00,105
70 decibels right now. Pretty much, if you have a

4180
05:39:00,235 --> 05:39:03,785
faint background noise, just like a freeway becomes background noise,

4181
05:39:05,675 --> 05:39:08,965
that is something, and it's in acceptable levels, that is not damaging

4182
05:39:09,845 --> 05:39:13,725
below osha requirement. But also, our study came back pretty

4183
05:39:14,185 --> 05:39:17,955
low in the fifties. I'd say that we are at a very realistic

4184
05:39:18,565 --> 05:39:21,685
level. Well, this is not a nuisance by any means. So,

4185
05:39:22,805 --> 05:39:26,335
you know, if a truck going by on the freeway hitting

4186
05:39:26,815 --> 05:39:30,735
this jake brakes, I guarantee you you're gonna spike in the eighties right off the bat

4187
05:39:31,245 --> 05:39:34,965
from the homes. But that's my speculation. When

4188
05:39:35,255 --> 05:39:39,015
I went there for the informal test, I just took my, uh, informal

4189
05:39:40,315 --> 05:39:44,125
map and I heard some trucks go by high seventies just

4190
05:39:44,615 --> 05:39:47,525
standing there on the service road. Mm-hmm . And when the shotgun fire

4191
05:39:48,655 --> 05:39:52,385
gave us in the fifties, I thought we were in a good spot,

4192
05:39:52,665 --> 05:39:56,665
basically. Okay. But I, I, again, I, I'm, this is my observation. I'll

4193
05:39:56,905 --> 05:40:00,375
let mr. Thomas speak a little more of that. So

4194
05:40:01,575 --> 05:40:04,735
testing can be repeated. What we did is a triangular pattern,

4195
05:40:06,085 --> 05:40:09,545
um, to try and represent the event. An event.

4196
05:40:10,445 --> 05:40:14,375
um, there is different strategic setting up

4197
05:40:14,595 --> 05:40:18,595
the samples, line pattern, sampling the closest residents,

4198
05:40:18,955 --> 05:40:22,055
setting up sampling on their doorsteps, um,

4199
05:40:23,055 --> 05:40:26,915
you know, to, to try and help the community to

4200
05:40:27,135 --> 05:40:31,115
feel better with that. Um, I'll do all the testing in the world as

4201
05:40:31,335 --> 05:40:34,995
long as somebody's paying me to do it, you know, but, um,

4202
05:40:36,555 --> 05:40:40,295
but realistically, you know, I'm here as an independent third

4203
05:40:40,575 --> 05:40:43,035
party consultant. That's what we do. Um,

4204
05:40:44,765 --> 05:40:48,525
repeating the testing, adding different sampling points, getting

4205
05:40:49,015 --> 05:40:53,015
closer to the residents would, would be something that, you know, I would

4206
05:40:53,535 --> 05:40:57,435
recommend from listening to everyone here tonight, it, it is one

4207
05:40:57,655 --> 05:41:01,255
of the bigger concerns, um, aside from the lead concerns.

4208
05:41:02,515 --> 05:41:06,355
um, so that, that would be my recommendation. Repeat the testing as

4209
05:41:06,615 --> 05:41:10,565
I mentioned before, but we can implement different data

4210
05:41:10,905 --> 05:41:14,445
points, if you will. Um, and, you know,

4211
05:41:15,925 --> 05:41:19,805
sampling it, it's ideal. Um, the more

4212
05:41:20,445 --> 05:41:24,165
sampling we can get to represent it, represent the testing

4213
05:41:25,105 --> 05:41:29,085
is better. I don't know how, how long somebody's gonna sit there for eight hours shooting

4214
05:41:29,285 --> 05:41:32,725
with a shotgun. I'm sure their shoulder might be kind of sore afterwards,

4215
05:41:33,345 --> 05:41:37,245
but, but you wanna represent what's actually gonna

4216
05:41:37,485 --> 05:41:41,285
occur on the site. Um, so I think, you know, we can do some additional

4217
05:41:41,765 --> 05:41:45,665
testing with the approval, um, to try and

4218
05:41:45,885 --> 05:41:49,765
maybe provide more data. Um, like I said, I,

4219
05:41:50,045 --> 05:41:53,835
I know there's a home very close, you know, to the property line

4220
05:41:54,195 --> 05:41:58,105
with, if that homeowner gives permission to do testing and, and

4221
05:41:58,545 --> 05:42:02,525
we would want, you know, their permission. I'm not gonna walk on someone's property without

4222
05:42:02,765 --> 05:42:06,645
the permission, but to do the testing, um, you know, we

4223
05:42:06,845 --> 05:42:10,695
would have a representative designated at that sampling point

4224
05:42:11,145 --> 05:42:14,385
to make sure there's no other interferences, um,

4225
05:42:15,735 --> 05:42:19,575
or documenting what else is going on. Um, you know, we had

4226
05:42:19,995 --> 05:42:23,135
a couple of the data points, you know, when we were looking at

4227
05:42:24,135 --> 05:42:27,255
the analysis of it, the analytics of it, um,

4228
05:42:28,975 --> 05:42:32,765
we could tell that there's a four-wheeler, you know, that was utilized

4229
05:42:33,555 --> 05:42:37,525
that actually gives the different peaks that we could sit there and

4230
05:42:37,685 --> 05:42:41,365
look at to analyze, um, the interstate, even though

4231
05:42:41,745 --> 05:42:45,685
you may not hear it, there is noise that is coming from that interstate

4232
05:42:46,225 --> 05:42:50,085
as well that that's picked up as part of the analytics reviewing all

4233
05:42:50,285 --> 05:42:54,265
of that. So, so we could definitely do some additional data points. Um,

4234
05:42:55,385 --> 05:42:59,305
you know, but I, you know, the data that we have, I stand by

4235
05:42:59,525 --> 05:43:03,475
that it's acceptable data that is less

4236
05:43:03,765 --> 05:43:07,565
than the standards that are, um, regulate

4237
05:43:07,805 --> 05:43:11,345
these activities. So I guess the variable is

4238
05:43:12,425 --> 05:43:16,325
how well did I have it off? My voice

4239
05:43:16,485 --> 05:43:20,175
is getting tired. I guess the variable is, once it's developed, would

4240
05:43:20,525 --> 05:43:24,445
that change the sound transmission properties? And if it does at that point

4241
05:43:24,745 --> 05:43:28,725
and it rises to a level, what, what do we do? I, from, from

4242
05:43:29,005 --> 05:43:32,825
what I have read, I think what's the,

4243
05:43:33,065 --> 05:43:36,555
the improvements that will be made as part of the site will,

4244
05:43:37,345 --> 05:43:41,205
uh, assist in reducing the noise

4245
05:43:41,485 --> 05:43:44,975
level, the installation of the berms, even, you know, installing

4246
05:43:45,845 --> 05:43:49,375
structures on the site. Those are all things that helps

4247
05:43:49,905 --> 05:43:53,845
reduce that noise being generated by the shotgun shooting.

4248
05:43:54,505 --> 05:43:58,275
so if, if I may, sorry. You know, given

4249
05:43:58,685 --> 05:44:02,485
the levels that are right now, and we've done basically two informal and

4250
05:44:02,725 --> 05:44:06,105
one formal test, and I, I, I come to like,

4251
05:44:07,395 --> 05:44:11,155
it's, I don't know if, if the crowd will still be happy with,

4252
05:44:11,445 --> 05:44:15,145
with another result, but a testing, basically, I think having two

4253
05:44:15,605 --> 05:44:19,155
informal readings, which it almost line with the formal test.

4254
05:44:20,065 --> 05:44:23,925
and as we implement measures for additional sound mitigation,

4255
05:44:24,985 --> 05:44:28,965
that's only going to help at this point. Keep in mind, we're a nonprofit.

4256
05:44:29,545 --> 05:44:33,365
we have not had a capital campaign yet. So I like to be very frank about

4257
05:44:33,605 --> 05:44:37,595
that. This stuff costs a lot of money. But at the same time,

4258
05:44:37,815 --> 05:44:41,775
we wanna make sure that we've done a, a formal test and our

4259
05:44:42,005 --> 05:44:45,715
sound, uh, experts seem to stand by. I the numbers

4260
05:44:46,105 --> 05:44:49,085
seem to be in line and well below.

4261
05:44:50,385 --> 05:44:54,275
what would, um, uh, what would be considered a nuisance? You know, if

4262
05:44:54,475 --> 05:44:57,695
we were spiking at 75, 80, I would definitely say

4263
05:44:59,855 --> 05:45:02,035
we got a valid reason to look at a few things.

4264
05:45:04,375 --> 05:45:08,275
we are, we're in the low f low fifties, high forties, mid fifties.

4265
05:45:08,655 --> 05:45:12,515
mid fifties. I think that's below. I mean, if I were to pull out my,

4266
05:45:12,955 --> 05:45:16,715
I know this is not accurate, but a, the reader on the app right now,

4267
05:45:17,035 --> 05:45:18,715
I would exceed mid fifties right off the bat

4268
05:45:21,555 --> 05:45:24,975
and, and just all set a state. 'cause I had heard earlier tonight,

4269
05:45:26,155 --> 05:45:29,455
um, about calibration of the equipment.

4270
05:45:30,555 --> 05:45:33,435
all of our equipment was calibrated. It's, um,

4271
05:45:34,675 --> 05:45:38,515
all serial numbered. Each one is calibrated before and after use.

4272
05:45:39,115 --> 05:45:43,025
so just to mention, know that as well. A little more valid than my iphone

4273
05:45:43,465 --> 05:45:46,285
was. Hmm. Yes. I would not use my iphone

4274
05:45:48,045 --> 05:45:51,165
. Alright. Thank you. Thank you.

4275
05:45:58,215 --> 05:46:00,685
we're good. Thank you very much. Appreciate your time. Thank you.

4276
05:46:05,325 --> 05:46:09,295
um, before we do get

4277
05:46:09,495 --> 05:46:13,415
started with talking, um, my utmost respect to each and every one

4278
05:46:13,615 --> 05:46:16,965
of you, um, that was held wonderfully.

4279
05:46:17,985 --> 05:46:21,795
there was no side comments. There was, you know, nothing that we had to,

4280
05:46:22,275 --> 05:46:26,255
to, to kind of distract ourselves from. So I thank you for being a

4281
05:46:26,455 --> 05:46:30,295
great community and for being respectful to a wide variety of opinions.

4282
05:46:31,035 --> 05:46:34,455
um, and, uh, speakers that came up. That was, that was,

4283
05:46:35,925 --> 05:46:39,045
it was really nice to see. Um, agreed. Um,

4284
05:46:41,575 --> 05:46:45,255
I think we'll just probably, do you wanna start, uh, mr. Dean and we'll just kind

4285
05:46:45,735 --> 05:46:49,535
of talk and, you know, converse back and forth, whatever concerns or

4286
05:46:50,215 --> 05:46:54,135
questions. Citizen comment. Hmm. Did you close the

4287
05:46:54,335 --> 05:46:58,035
citizen comment? I did. Okay. Yeah. Alright. Thank you madam

4288
05:46:58,385 --> 05:47:02,385
chair. Um, one thing I was excited to see is I

4289
05:47:02,505 --> 05:47:06,425
think we all agree on the benefits mm-hmm . We don't all agree

4290
05:47:06,725 --> 05:47:10,685
on the location necessarily, but I think, um, it's a great purpose

4291
05:47:11,935 --> 05:47:15,835
and, uh, I think everybody in the room would like to find a way to get to yes. That's, that's amenable

4292
05:47:16,335 --> 05:47:20,195
for everyone. Um, but I think there's a lot of fear of

4293
05:47:20,355 --> 05:47:23,515
the unknown still. I think some folks are asking questions

4294
05:47:24,715 --> 05:47:27,965
just 'cause they don't know the answer, and I respect that.

4295
05:47:29,005 --> 05:47:32,595
um, I also respect that the applicant is being,

4296
05:47:33,165 --> 05:47:37,155
uh, diligent with their resources and not spending

4297
05:47:37,475 --> 05:47:41,375
'em before they need to. Um, I, I honor that,

4298
05:47:41,615 --> 05:47:45,395
that's a prudent, uh, use of their, their not-for-profit funds or

4299
05:47:45,835 --> 05:47:49,745
future funds. Um, but I, I had hoped

4300
05:47:50,025 --> 05:47:53,615
at this point we'd be more converging than

4301
05:47:54,895 --> 05:47:58,865
diverging or being parallel in our alignment of some of the thoughts. And so

4302
05:47:58,985 --> 05:48:02,705
I think there's some areas that, um, that we might need to, uh,

4303
05:48:03,125 --> 05:48:07,015
talk about. There's also many, we probably,

4304
05:48:07,275 --> 05:48:11,245
in my opinion, don't need to talk about. So if I can just talk

4305
05:48:11,535 --> 05:48:14,835
about some of the ones we don't need to talk about and why I believe that. Um,

4306
05:48:15,955 --> 05:48:19,805
and that's, this is just my opinion based on, uh, what I've come to

4307
05:48:19,965 --> 05:48:23,865
know. One of them is, uh, the

4308
05:48:24,085 --> 05:48:27,975
environmental stuff. The applicant's gonna have to,

4309
05:48:28,155 --> 05:48:32,155
as they've said, go through a lot more hurdles than we could throw in front of them. Um,

4310
05:48:32,685 --> 05:48:36,615
they are required, uh, per their testimony to have an

4311
05:48:36,735 --> 05:48:40,735
environmental stewardship plan. Um, I have great confidence in

4312
05:48:40,895 --> 05:48:44,845
the luck companies to manage them to that the companies have

4313
05:48:45,045 --> 05:48:48,265
a lot to lose if things don't go well. So that, um,

4314
05:48:49,375 --> 05:48:53,265
that provides me at least some comfort and assurance that it will be managed and it will be done

4315
05:48:53,905 --> 05:48:55,835
properly. Um,

4316
05:48:57,945 --> 05:49:01,465
I do have a question that the applicant might be able to address just to make sure that,

4317
05:49:02,485 --> 05:49:06,425
uh, the monitoring management and mitigation would persist in the

4318
05:49:06,545 --> 05:49:09,785
event that the business ceased. Uh, for some reason,

4319
05:49:10,685 --> 05:49:14,605
and I know that, uh, some folks have had, uh, uh,

4320
05:49:15,105 --> 05:49:18,455
serty bonds to assure that I don't know what arrangement they may suggest.

4321
05:49:20,265 --> 05:49:24,185
um, but the environmental, I wouldn't be too worried about. Um, as

4322
05:49:24,465 --> 05:49:24,745
far as

4323
05:49:31,595 --> 05:49:35,395
trespassing and, uh, signage, uh, I do like the idea

4324
05:49:35,635 --> 05:49:38,635
of something a little more, uh, proactive for young kids.

4325
05:49:39,695 --> 05:49:39,695
um,

4326
05:49:44,335 --> 05:49:48,105
hours of operation. Again, if the noise mitigation can be, uh,

4327
05:49:48,985 --> 05:49:52,295
if everybody can get comfortable with that, um, you know, again,

4328
05:49:53,185 --> 05:49:56,925
the hours become less of an issue. But I do appreciate

4329
05:49:57,485 --> 05:50:00,425
that, uh, that having some respite from, uh,

4330
05:50:02,525 --> 05:50:06,205
the noise from the facility would be beneficial. I think.

4331
05:50:06,725 --> 05:50:10,725
I think the weather and just usage will provide a lot of that. I don't,

4332
05:50:11,915 --> 05:50:15,765
I, uh, I commented to the applicant that they would

4333
05:50:15,925 --> 05:50:19,845
be lucky to be busy 365 days a year. That would be a great business.

4334
05:50:20,605 --> 05:50:22,285
I don't think it, I don't think that will be the case.

4335
05:50:25,045 --> 05:50:29,045
I do think a lot of things, uh, will be addressed in the pod. I don't

4336
05:50:29,285 --> 05:50:32,585
know that, uh, we necessarily have to, um,

4337
05:50:36,985 --> 05:50:40,545
restrict anything, uh, that the co that, that the, uh, pod process

4338
05:50:41,125 --> 05:50:44,165
is going to, uh, go through such as the phasing and

4339
05:50:45,265 --> 05:50:48,875
conceptual plan. Um, the things I think we can impact

4340
05:50:49,315 --> 05:50:53,195
and we should talk about, uh, are noise, um,

4341
05:50:54,485 --> 05:50:58,235
traffic perhaps. But I'm not sure that the issue at,

4342
05:50:58,555 --> 05:51:02,015
um, the corner of, uh, three chopped in two 50

4343
05:51:02,645 --> 05:51:06,395
with the store, there is anything that the applicant can impact.

4344
05:51:07,395 --> 05:51:10,735
so I don't know that that's something that, um, we can really address.

4345
05:51:12,015 --> 05:51:15,615
I know that, uh, it'll bring a little more traffic to the area. I appreciate that

4346
05:51:16,235 --> 05:51:19,495
the roads are a public, uh, resource and they should be used.

4347
05:51:20,435 --> 05:51:24,325
um, I don't think it's gonna be over overbearing,

4348
05:51:25,315 --> 05:51:29,115
uh, with traffic. And

4349
05:51:29,375 --> 05:51:33,025
I may have things to add as, uh, as we go forward, but it's late and my voice is tired

4350
05:51:33,915 --> 05:51:37,905
and I'll hand back, hand it back to you.

4351
05:51:38,445 --> 05:51:41,155
mm-hmm . Thanks,

4352
05:51:42,915 --> 05:51:46,895
jess. Do you wanna, do you wanna weigh in, jess? Yeah. There,

4353
05:51:47,505 --> 05:51:51,115
um, there was a number of

4354
05:51:52,425 --> 05:51:55,685
people that spoke that

4355
05:51:57,645 --> 05:52:01,395
had some contingencies. They referenced, I mean,

4356
05:52:02,435 --> 05:52:06,075
everyone thought it was a right, it was a, it's a good idea, just not the right place.

4357
05:52:07,815 --> 05:52:11,795
and there's a few people that, that spoke about how it would

4358
05:52:12,035 --> 05:52:15,715
be acceptable, um, in order what conditions it would be acceptable.

4359
05:52:18,085 --> 05:52:22,035
those are the kinds of things that, that someone, someone in this seat and someone that

4360
05:52:22,245 --> 05:52:25,755
loves the community really likes to see how, how can we find common ground.

4361
05:52:26,255 --> 05:52:29,795
so I don't know, um,

4362
05:52:31,365 --> 05:52:34,885
if that's possible. Obviously the, the big ones are noise, um,

4363
05:52:36,945 --> 05:52:40,365
having a proper noise maybe in plan traffic study.

4364
05:52:41,055 --> 05:52:44,835
and I, I mean, I heard a lot of people talk about, uh, shot fall.

4365
05:52:47,385 --> 05:52:51,155
um, so I I

4366
05:52:51,475 --> 05:52:55,415
I, I just wonder if it's possible

4367
05:52:55,715 --> 05:52:59,695
to have these things be accomplished, have the,

4368
05:52:59,955 --> 05:53:03,305
the community at ease, um, and have this,

4369
05:53:05,255 --> 05:53:08,365
what everyone agrees is a really great thing. Um,

4370
05:53:10,325 --> 05:53:14,075
still, still working through that thought process. If, if there's a way to get

4371
05:53:14,515 --> 05:53:15,955
everyone excited about it,

4372
05:53:21,515 --> 05:53:25,195
I don't think you're ever going to get to a hundred percent on that. And that's just,

4373
05:53:25,575 --> 05:53:29,375
um, yeah, it's a nice thought. Yeah. Thank you. Um, do

4374
05:53:29,595 --> 05:53:33,535
you wanna, I'm sorry. Did you have more to add? Uh, not right now. You're good. Okay. Um,

4375
05:53:35,145 --> 05:53:38,825
I think my biggest concern is, is going back to staff and staff's

4376
05:53:39,305 --> 05:53:43,225
gonna be the one that handles a lot of this. Um, and, and there's

4377
05:53:43,505 --> 05:53:45,605
a lot of, um, still, uh,

4378
05:53:48,505 --> 05:53:52,225
uh, items that staff is still saying that we need clarification on.

4379
05:53:53,025 --> 05:53:55,985
um, I I also think it's a, it's a great project, um,

4380
05:53:57,065 --> 05:54:00,895
um, you know, living in, in

4381
05:54:01,415 --> 05:54:05,365
glinda and, and the rural character that we all tend to en you know, enjoy.

4382
05:54:05,855 --> 05:54:09,715
and, you know, my family, um, I have two eagle scouts and I have children

4383
05:54:10,015 --> 05:54:13,985
who hunt and trap and fish way more than,

4384
05:54:14,345 --> 05:54:18,315
than sometimes I wish that they would . But, um, I, I, I,

4385
05:54:18,455 --> 05:54:21,975
so I I I, I agree with the concept. Um,

4386
05:54:23,275 --> 05:54:27,115
I just personally, um, think that we still need more

4387
05:54:27,355 --> 05:54:31,335
time to, for, for staff to figure out those unknowns and

4388
05:54:31,695 --> 05:54:35,515
for us to kind of maybe come together on maybe some concessions

4389
05:54:36,175 --> 05:54:38,295
as far as the hours of operation, um,

4390
05:54:40,935 --> 05:54:44,665
days that are open tournament times, um, different things like that.

4391
05:54:45,365 --> 05:54:49,205
um, and things that probably cannot be answered at 1155.

4392
05:54:50,805 --> 05:54:54,485
um, and I've told my kids nothing good happens after midnight. So,

4393
05:54:55,045 --> 05:54:58,585
um, I, I, you know, I, I hear the concerns,

4394
05:54:59,805 --> 05:55:03,705
um, and I also hear staff concerns and I also hear

4395
05:55:03,945 --> 05:55:06,765
applicant concerns. So now we have this trifecta of

4396
05:55:08,745 --> 05:55:12,655
sometimes time can answer a lot of those things. Um,

4397
05:55:12,975 --> 05:55:16,945
and so I am, I would love to present this to the board of supervisors

4398
05:55:17,725 --> 05:55:20,745
as a more complete application at this point.

4399
05:55:24,525 --> 05:55:28,025
mr. Patak? Yes. Um, I love that vsp

4400
05:55:29,555 --> 05:55:33,455
wants to make this a family, make this a youth.

4401
05:55:34,175 --> 05:55:37,815
I think those are great ideas and I think that that can happen.

4402
05:55:38,915 --> 05:55:42,395
um, but there's just things I can't get around and

4403
05:55:42,975 --> 05:55:46,795
I just can't sacrifice these poor people to

4404
05:55:47,015 --> 05:55:50,835
take the hit of, you know, going down the, the, the

4405
05:55:51,055 --> 05:55:54,965
rabbit hole of decibels and you wind and so forth. They're

4406
05:55:55,455 --> 05:55:59,355
just gonna hear it every day and it bothers them. And

4407
05:55:59,685 --> 05:56:03,525
they're, they're going outside and I just can't get over

4408
05:56:03,765 --> 05:56:07,285
that. I can't get over the proximity to these homes.

4409
05:56:09,125 --> 05:56:13,125
I can't get over the, the giant amount of lead that'll be shot

4410
05:56:13,435 --> 05:56:17,265
into the wetlands. And my last question is, is this the best

4411
05:56:17,605 --> 05:56:18,535
use of this land?

4412
05:56:22,655 --> 05:56:22,875
all right.

4413
05:56:27,305 --> 05:56:30,925
all right. To me, to you. Okay. Um, best but not least,

4414
05:56:32,265 --> 05:56:36,155
well, sound is obviously, uh, the, the biggest thing that people were concerned

4415
05:56:36,595 --> 05:56:40,425
about and what I, what I did just hear the applicant say a couple of times is take

4416
05:56:40,715 --> 05:56:42,975
some time to review the sound study. Mm-hmm . So

4417
05:56:45,505 --> 05:56:49,435
take some time. So it seems like I,

4418
05:56:49,675 --> 05:56:53,675
I feel like we do need a little bit more time then, uh, I want a little

4419
05:56:53,755 --> 05:56:57,755
more time to review some of the presentations that were given here today. There was a lot of data on some

4420
05:56:57,955 --> 05:57:01,755
of the, some of those presentations, a lot of information. So I'd like to look at that.

4421
05:57:02,735 --> 05:57:06,455
um, and, uh, I guess the other big thing is

4422
05:57:06,955 --> 05:57:10,835
I, I hope we can straighten out this lease issue. Uh, I think that's mm-hmm .

4423
05:57:11,795 --> 05:57:15,685
I don't think that was what we were expecting to see when we saw the 75 acres

4424
05:57:16,035 --> 05:57:19,195
move to 85 acres. And so, uh, and maybe that's not really,

4425
05:57:20,615 --> 05:57:24,555
uh, my concern, but it looks like it knocks out some of the shooting positions, and I

4426
05:57:24,635 --> 05:57:27,135
don't think you want to do that. So, um,

4427
05:57:30,235 --> 05:57:34,135
so I, I, I, I guess, do we want to have any conversations

4428
05:57:34,875 --> 05:57:37,775
around this? Because I think I, I hear in general

4429
05:57:39,275 --> 05:57:43,255
you saying this, this is, these, a lot of these issues are perhaps unresolvable.

4430
05:57:44,075 --> 05:57:47,485
we do want to have something like this. It's got a lot of great benefits promising,

4431
05:57:48,675 --> 05:57:51,895
um, benefits for the, for the county.

4432
05:57:52,715 --> 05:57:56,615
but I, I would say that the, the other board members that I heard are council

4433
05:57:57,015 --> 05:58:00,455
members, or what are we called? A commission, commission members. I heard

4434
05:58:01,175 --> 05:58:05,005
. Uh, it is after almost talking midnight , um, I, I've,

4435
05:58:05,295 --> 05:58:09,215
I've heard several people say, you know, we just like need a little bit more time and hopefully

4436
05:58:09,575 --> 05:58:13,335
things can, uh, get a little clearer and work on some, uh, some issues.

4437
05:58:14,015 --> 05:58:16,975
a little bit more. Um, so I,

4438
05:58:18,335 --> 05:58:22,245
I would like to, uh, I, I would like to make a motion that

4439
05:58:22,535 --> 05:58:26,455
we, uh, that the commission defer consideration of the conditional

4440
05:58:26,915 --> 05:58:30,815
use permit cu 2 0 2 5 0 0 0 1 2 application

4441
05:58:32,115 --> 05:58:35,625
by virginia sports park and training center at gland

4442
05:58:36,155 --> 05:58:40,055
to the, uh, march, uh, planning commission meeting.

4443
05:58:40,575 --> 05:58:43,305
I believe that's march 19th. March 19th, yeah. March, march 19th.

4444
05:58:45,195 --> 05:58:48,795
um, so that I, I'll make that as a, as a formal, uh,

4445
05:58:49,515 --> 05:58:51,445
motion. I'll second

4446
05:58:55,565 --> 05:58:59,285
mr. Kimberly. Aye. Mr. Patek, can we, oh, can we discuss

4447
05:58:59,625 --> 05:59:02,085
the motion before we go? Oh, yes. I'm sorry.

4448
05:59:03,855 --> 05:59:04,485
after midnight.

4449
05:59:08,985 --> 05:59:12,665
what are we gonna know then that we don't know now? Okay. And how do we assure that

4450
05:59:13,055 --> 05:59:16,335
we receive that information on a timely basis so that we can digest it,

4451
05:59:17,975 --> 05:59:21,625
make sure the community is aware of it as well? Well, what I, what I heard you mention

4452
05:59:22,125 --> 05:59:25,865
was, uh, we're still unresolved on the noise

4453
05:59:26,195 --> 05:59:29,715
issue. There's still yes, sir. Unanswered questions about noise

4454
05:59:30,325 --> 05:59:34,215
and ways to limit the sound. I hear you also

4455
05:59:34,505 --> 05:59:38,025
were concerned, and I'm concerned a little bit about perimeter security.

4456
05:59:38,815 --> 05:59:42,725
yeah. Um, I think there's some

4457
05:59:42,885 --> 05:59:46,765
items that, uh, maybe staff and applicant can kind of, uh, can kind

4458
05:59:47,005 --> 05:59:50,515
of get together and maybe work through, whether it's those that

4459
05:59:51,365 --> 05:59:54,575
possible, like you said, perimeter yeah. Um, hours,

4460
05:59:55,425 --> 05:59:59,365
um, different things. Um, again, well, and I also heard that it's not

4461
05:59:59,925 --> 06:00:03,685
possible to shoot in the direction away from the center of the range

4462
06:00:04,225 --> 06:00:07,955
and you know, I, I guess I'm a little concerned about shot

4463
06:00:08,245 --> 06:00:11,145
fall in the other directions, so mm-hmm . Um,

4464
06:00:12,745 --> 06:00:16,565
uh, and that was one of the things that, that mr. Mclaughlin brought up and I,

4465
06:00:16,845 --> 06:00:20,805
I agree with him on that. So I'd like to, I'd like to hear a little bit more about

4466
06:00:20,965 --> 06:00:24,805
how that is assured that that's not gonna happen. So, and I think the sound study,

4467
06:00:25,085 --> 06:00:28,985
I, I do think staff, um, you know, and all of us too, I mean, I read through it, but

4468
06:00:29,365 --> 06:00:33,345
I, I want to read through it and really, you know, fully comprehend it and,

4469
06:00:33,865 --> 06:00:37,465
you know, given a day and a half is, is

4470
06:00:37,945 --> 06:00:41,875
not prudent to staff or to us. Um, so I, I'd like

4471
06:00:41,995 --> 06:00:45,875
the time to for that as well. Yeah. And mr. Thomas did mention

4472
06:00:46,115 --> 06:00:50,075
perhaps doing an additional study with more data points. Yeah. But he

4473
06:00:50,195 --> 06:00:54,035
also made the very good point that he'll, he'll do as much as he's paid to do.

4474
06:00:54,495 --> 06:00:58,235
and, and it's expensive. It is very expensive for a nonprofit that really hasn't

4475
06:00:58,555 --> 06:01:02,535
had a fundraising, uh, effort yet. So

4476
06:01:03,035 --> 06:01:04,615
I, I get that. Um,

4477
06:01:08,015 --> 06:01:11,905
it's coming out of their individual pockets, I guess. I don't really, I don't know where it's coming from

4478
06:01:12,545 --> 06:01:15,915
. So,

4479
06:01:16,635 --> 06:01:20,605
so perimeter security noise, um, shot

4480
06:01:20,895 --> 06:01:24,815
fall, shot fall, uh, mr. Machal also mentioned a a a,

4481
06:01:25,415 --> 06:01:29,375
a better traffic study or, or maybe additional information on,

4482
06:01:30,595 --> 06:01:34,435
uh, traffic, uh, was something that he suggested. Uh, so

4483
06:01:34,655 --> 06:01:38,655
you're asking them to pay more, um, or if that's what it takes

4484
06:01:38,955 --> 06:01:42,845
or I, maybe it's, maybe it's information we get from,

4485
06:01:43,515 --> 06:01:47,375
uh, our local law enforcement and first responders and what

4486
06:01:47,575 --> 06:01:48,875
their opinions are on that. So

4487
06:01:52,295 --> 06:01:56,215
and coming to consensus on hours and days. Mm-hmm .

4488
06:01:56,365 --> 06:01:59,645
yeah. I mean, I heard for the first time there might be some holidays that

4489
06:02:00,595 --> 06:02:04,535
may not yeah. Have activities and yeah. None of that was, none of that was

4490
06:02:04,655 --> 06:02:08,395
in the application. No, the application. So, alright.

4491
06:02:08,905 --> 06:02:12,665
so maybe cleaning that up a little bit. Mm-hmm . Staff was, uh, was asking

4492
06:02:13,545 --> 06:02:17,445
or saying that there were, there are some things that they're not sure they've got an agreement

4493
06:02:17,665 --> 06:02:21,255
on. Even things that were already in the, in the presentation,

4494
06:02:22,195 --> 06:02:22,855
so mm-hmm .

4495
06:02:28,425 --> 06:02:32,365
all right. I got now if you want to

4496
06:02:32,485 --> 06:02:36,245
call the vote, I just wanted to make sure we got said what we wanted to, is there, is there more?

4497
06:02:36,925 --> 06:02:40,325
I, I love this. Is there more conversation to have about this before we,

4498
06:02:41,205 --> 06:02:45,005
I mean, does anybody want to advocate for a different position on this?

4499
06:02:45,405 --> 06:02:49,285
I mean, I, I'll hear all inputs on this. Well the other option is

4500
06:02:49,445 --> 06:02:53,325
we can deny it and kick it to the board. I'm not sure that

4501
06:02:53,525 --> 06:02:57,435
they want that. That's not what, what we're here for. We're here to polish it up and yeah.

4502
06:02:58,035 --> 06:03:01,965
make sure that they're delivered a, I've been here for five hours and three

4503
06:03:02,205 --> 06:03:05,945
minutes. I wanted something to end on. Um,

4504
06:03:06,225 --> 06:03:10,025
so I think the deferral might be best, um, for the good of six

4505
06:03:10,245 --> 06:03:13,945
hours. Six hours. Yeah. You got here at five o'clock. I got here at five

4506
06:03:14,285 --> 06:03:17,385
so I've been here for seven hours in three minutes. You got it. Alright.

4507
06:03:18,305 --> 06:03:21,665
I have to get up in five hours. So, yeah, go ahead.

4508
06:03:23,435 --> 06:03:27,305
all right. So you wanna start again? Sure. Had the motion to defer

4509
06:03:27,795 --> 06:03:31,695
to the march 19 meeting by mr. Kimberly, seconded by

4510
06:03:31,895 --> 06:03:35,435
ms. Kowalski and for the roll call vote. We will recall mr.

4511
06:03:35,975 --> 06:03:39,135
kimberly. Aye mr. Patak nay. Ms. Kowalski

4512
06:03:39,995 --> 06:03:43,555
aye. Mr. Mclaughlin aye. Mr. Dean

4513
06:03:44,755 --> 06:03:48,655
aye the motion to defer the application c you 20 25 12

4514
06:03:50,435 --> 06:03:54,355
to the march 19th, 2026 pc meeting is

4515
06:03:54,855 --> 06:03:58,615
approved on a four one vote. If there is

4516
06:03:58,875 --> 06:04:00,535
no other business, this meeting is adjourned.