[0:00] Okay, we ready? Yep.
[0:07] I now call to order the planning commission meeting for january 15th, 2026.
[0:12] uh, ms. Parker, do we have a quorum? Yes. Ms. Kowalski, we have a quorum. Uh, please
[0:17] stand for the pledge of allegiance and remain standing for the invocation.
[0:25] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america
[0:30] and to the recovery for which it stands, one nation under
[0:34] god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
[0:43] please bow, bear your heads for prayer. Heavenly
[0:47] father, we come before you today as a community concerned about everyone's rights
[0:51] and the quality of life in our county. We seek your guidance,
[0:55] we seek your wisdom. In this meeting, we ask that your spirit be present
[1:00] among us, keeping our interactions respectful and guiding our decisions
[1:04] for the common good. Help us to set aside our differences and
[1:08] to endeavor to understand each other's points of view and to work together in
[1:12] unity, ensuring that our efforts reflect your will to make goochland
[1:16] a better county. In your holy name we pray, amen. Amen.
[1:31] um, has everyone had a chance to read the minutes from the, uh, december 18th, 2025
[1:37] meeting? Are there any comments or is there a motion to approve?
[1:42] I motion to approve. Aye. I second.
[1:48] alright, mr. Kimberly? Aye. Mr. Patt aye. Ms. Kowalski
[1:53] aye. Mr. Mclaughlin aye. Mr. Dean aye. Thank you.
[1:57] uh, we are now ready for the director's report.
[2:07] thank you. Ms. Parker. Excuse. Thank you, ms. Parker.
[2:12] madam chair, your welcome, madam chair, members of the commission
[2:16] for the record, I'm jamie sherry, director of planning and zoning. This evening
[2:21] I'll be presenting a brief director's report on upcoming public
[2:25] hearings. Looking ahead to the
[2:29] board of supervisors meeting on february 3rd, there are two conditional use
[2:33] permit cases scheduled. This meeting we will, will be held at 6:00 pm
[2:37] right here in the boardroom. The first is in district one and involves a request
[2:42] for a detached accessory family housing unit on approximately 20 acres
[2:46] on loving springs lane. The property is zoned a one and is
[2:50] designated as rural enhancement area in the comp plan. The second
[2:54] case is in district three, also for a detached family housing unit
[2:58] on approximately 3.7 acres on hawk town road.
[3:02] the property is zoned a two and is also designated as
[3:06] rural enhancement area. Both of these requests require
[3:10] a conditional use permit for
[3:14] the february planning commission. Uh, it's february 19th
[3:19] at 6:00 pm there are also two conditional use permits scheduled, and the
[3:23] meeting will be held here in the boardroom at 6:00 pm the first is in
[3:27] district three, is a request for a home-based business on pleasant hill lane
[3:32] that is involving a small scale fabrication of custom
[3:36] parts and tools used for maintaining and repairing mechanical
[3:40] equipment. The property is approximately 17 acres and is zoned
[3:44] a two and located in the rural enhancement area.
[3:48] the second case in district four is a request for a school use on the
[3:53] property along three chop road and broad street road. This is,
[3:57] uh, combined. The combined site is approximately seven acres, zoned
[4:01] a two and is also zoned, um, rural enhancement area.
[4:06] and at this time, there are no community meetings scheduled. And that's all I have
[4:10] for you all this evening. Thank you.
[4:15] thank you. Uh, now we are on to citizen comment period
[4:19] per the planning commission bylaws sec section four, addressing the commission. Public
[4:24] comments. Generally, all persons who speak before the commission during the citizen comment
[4:28] period or a public hearing shall do so from the lectern and furnish their names
[4:32] and addresses to the commission. A speaker shall only speak once on any item
[4:36] unless the commission asks the speaker to answer questions. No person may address the
[4:40] commission unless they have first been recognized by the chair. Each person who desires
[4:45] to speak shall be given time to present oral or written comments. Comment shall be directed to
[4:49] the commission, not to the audience. The citizen comment period provides
[4:53] a public forum for the commission to hear from citizens about matters pertinent to
[4:57] the activities, issues, or policies of the commission. The citizen comment
[5:01] period is limited to matters that are not scheduled for public hearing
[5:05] on tonight's agenda. Uh,
[5:09] and just, um, to reiterate, these are for, uh, anything that is not
[5:14] to be spoken about tonight. Um, if you do wish to speak during the citizen comment
[5:18] period, please come forward. State your name and address. You will have three minutes
[5:22] to speak. The green light will come on that indicates the start of your three minutes.
[5:26] uh, the yellow light will indicate that you have one minute remaining and the red light
[5:30] indicates the end of, uh, your time. Um, do we have anyone
[5:35] that wishes to speak during the public comment time?
[5:40] all right. I will then close the public. Um, comment period.
[5:45] um, unfinished business, we have no unfinished
[5:49] business. There are two items of new business. The first item
[5:53] of new business is establishment of the nominating committee. The nominating committee
[5:57] is a two person committee, which will nominate chair and vice chair at the april
[6:02] meeting where the chair and vice chair will officially be elected. Are there
[6:06] any volunteers for the nominating committee? I will volunteer.
[6:11] I will volunteer. Thank you.
[6:18] our second item of new business this evening is an action item before the commission and
[6:22] will not come before the board of supervisors district five cmp 20 25 2
[6:28] application by sta properties llc requesting approval of a
[6:32] conceptual master plan for a distribution use on 40.3
[6:36] acres on tax, about number 63 37 1 2 0
[6:41] and west creek business park. The property is zoned industrial limited m1
[6:45] with proffered conditions and is governed by the proffers associated with west creek
[6:49] business park. The comprehensive plan designates this area as prime
[6:53] economic development. Thank you, ms. Parker. Madam chair
[6:58] for the record. My name is carrie raglin. I'm assistant planning director for the county and
[7:02] we'll be providing the staff presentation for this application. As
[7:06] stated, the request is within district five is an and is an application
[7:10] for approval of a conceptual master plan within the west creek business park.
[7:16] the vicinity map on the left indicates the subject area outlined in red
[7:20] at the southeastern part of the county near route 2 88, and the aerial photo
[7:24] on the right indicates the subject property also outlined in red. For a better
[7:28] reference, the property is located directly west of route 2 88
[7:32] and is situated between route 2 88 and west creek parkway north
[7:36] of patterson avenue.
[7:40] the zoning map on the left shows the subject property and adjacent properties
[7:45] all is within the m1 zoning district. The comprehensive plan map on
[7:49] the right shows the subject property and adjacent properties as prime economic development.
[7:57] as discussed, the request is to approve a conceptual master plan for a
[8:02] distribution center, specifically a last mile distribution center, which
[8:06] is a facility used to store sort and dispatch goods close to the final
[8:10] customer. This is before you tonight because of the proffered conditions within
[8:14] the west creek business park, which requires planning, commission, review and approval.
[8:19] the application does not require public hearing, but rather is an action item that
[8:23] requires the vote. The proposed distribu distribution center
[8:27] is a by right use within the m1 zoning. In
[8:31] addition to the planning commission review, other proffers include development
[8:36] standards for the site such as landscaping road dedications,
[8:40] at least 30% net open space roadway and site buffers,
[8:44] setbacks from buildings and parking underground utilities, and for
[8:48] the bmps to serve as amenities.
[8:54] on this slide, you can see the proposed conceptual plan on the right, and I
[8:58] will show this in a larger format. On another screen. The plan demonstrates
[9:03] a large 114,000 square foot warehouse as the main delivery center
[9:07] and a 5,000 square foot service building for the fleet. Vehicles also
[9:11] shown as the underground stormwater facilities and employee parking three
[9:16] access points are shown on west creek parkway, all of which are to be installed
[9:20] as full access openings, creating three median breaks for left and right
[9:24] turns in and out of the site.
[9:29] and I'll pause here for a moment with a larger image to point out. The
[9:33] main warehouse building the service
[9:37] building for the fleet vehicles, uh, generally
[9:41] employee parking at the center and the northern entrance
[9:46] specifically, um, is for large trucks to unload their contents, which would be brought
[9:50] from the main distribution centers on this side. The southern most
[9:54] entrance is mostly for the van fleet service, which creates a direct access
[9:58] to the back of the building while they where they will get loaded. And the
[10:02] central access point is generally for employee parking.
[10:11] the conceptual plan is intended to be general nature and then followed by a
[10:15] detailed plan of development approval. Should issues arise with the
[10:19] pod where the site plans are not in conformance with a conceptual plan, the applicant
[10:23] would need to revise their cmp application and return to the planning commission
[10:28] for a revised approval of the concept plan. It should be
[10:32] noted that a plan of development is under a formal review with staff. Under those
[10:36] review processes, staff is able to comment on the specific measurements and
[10:40] engineering of the site. The concept plan is in accordance
[10:44] with a comprehensive plan, the west creek proffers and the plan of
[10:48] development under review.
[10:53] madam chair, this concludes the staff presentation. There is a representative here if
[10:57] you have any questions. Do you have any questions of me?
[11:03] any questions? No. No. No. Thank you. Okay.
[11:09] do you mind just stating your name for the record? Good
[11:13] evening. My name is joshua bryant. I'm with cph consulting and
[11:17] we are the design consultant for this project. Um, so I'm here in
[11:21] case anyone has any questions? No.
[11:26] any questions? None. No. No. I think we're good. Thank you. Thank you joshua. Thank you
[11:31] madam chair. I move that the commission approved conceptual master plan
[11:35] cmp 20 25 0 0 0 0 2
[11:40] application by summit properties llci second that,
[11:46] uh, mr. Kimberly? Aye. Mr. Patak? Aye. Ms. Kowalski?
[11:50] aye. Mr. Mclaughlin? Aye. Mr. Dean aye.
[11:55] cmp 20 25 2 is approved with a five oh vote.
[12:05] uh, do we have any requests to defer
[12:09] additions, deletions, or changes to the order of public hearings? There are no
[12:13] requests to defer additions, deletions, or changes to the order of the public hearings.
[12:17] okay, our first public hearing tonight is in district three, rz 20 25 6.
[12:22] application by bj's hauling llc requesting to rezone 2.16
[12:27] acres from agricultural limited, a two to industrial general
[12:31] m two with proffered conditions for an office and outside storage for trucking
[12:35] business at 1991 triplet lane on tax be number 45 7 0
[12:40] c. The comprehensive plan designates this area as industrial.
[12:46] thank you ms. Parker. Madam chair, I'll state again for the record. My name is carrie
[12:50] raglan and I'll be presenting the, uh, staff presentation for this application.
[12:55] the request is within district three and is an application for rezoning
[12:59] from the a two agricultural district to the m two industrial district with
[13:03] proffered conditions for the purpose of an office with outside storage
[13:07] for a truck hauling business. The
[13:11] vicinity map on the left shows the subject area outlined in red, while the aerial
[13:16] photo on the right indicates the subject property also outlined in red,
[13:20] where a better reference the parcels located north of broad street on triplet lane
[13:24] just across from the county bus depot, which can be seen here
[13:29] in the aerial.
[13:33] the zoning map on the left demonstrates the subject property and adjacent properties to the
[13:37] north and east as a two agricultural district. Properties to the
[13:41] south and west are zoned m1 and m two industrial. The comprehensive
[13:46] plan map on the right demonstrates the property and most adjacent properties
[13:50] as industrial. The bus depot to the west is shown as institutional
[13:55] here in blue as it's owned by the county.
[14:00] the property was historically developed as a single family residence, and if
[14:04] this application is approved, the structure could no longer be used as a dwelling.
[14:08] currently the property is accessed by a private driveway, which extends
[14:13] off of triplet lane. Note here in the aerial photo that
[14:17] as triplet lane runs north, you follow the red dot.
[14:24] uh, the path diverts at the property's driveway just here shown
[14:28] in white as the access easement while the state road actually
[14:32] jogs left and then continues north. The result is that there is a private
[14:36] access easement here, which runs parallel to the
[14:41] state road here, and you can see the curve in the road.
[14:45] three parcels utilize the access easement, which are the subject
[14:49] property here and two adjacent properties to the
[14:54] north. However, none of the parcels are landlocked and all
[14:58] are able to extend a driveway directly onto triplet here,
[15:03] or the private road to the north, which is pothole road.
[15:10] the applicant is requesting to rezone 2.16 acres from agricultural
[15:15] to industrial with proffered conditions in order to create an office building for a truck
[15:19] hauling business and outside storage for their truck hauling fleet.
[15:24] the applicant has proffered a conceptual plan, which shows the existing residence to remain
[15:29] a parking area at the front of the building at a fenced in and screened storage fenced
[15:33] in and screened storage yard will be added to the back for the truck
[15:38] fleet. Oops, went too fast.
[15:43] six other conditions are proffered to include buffer requirements, construction hours,
[15:47] and screening of the outside storage. As shown
[15:51] in the concept plan, a new straight entrance would be added onto triplet
[15:55] to provide better site distance for the trucks pulling out of the property. Any right
[15:59] of way or site distance easements would be reviewed and acquired at the plan development stage.
[16:08] and this slide shows the proffered concept plan on here as described.
[16:12] I'll point out the existing house here to remain a new parking
[16:16] area proposed at the front of the property. The screened in, uh, the
[16:20] screen storage at the back, which includes a fence and vegetative screening,
[16:25] as well as screening at the north of the property.
[16:30] and then a new commercial access right here directly onto triplet.
[16:34] this is different from the current access, which is down here.
[16:40] then there is a triangle here, which shows expected right of way dedication
[16:44] or site distance easements needed to make the new entrance safe.
[16:54] the proposed m two zoning district is intended for heavy commercial and industrial operations.
[16:59] outdoor storage is allowed by right in the district. The
[17:04] property and several adjacent properties are designated as industrial land use
[17:09] and the the application is consistent with the comprehensive plan.
[17:17] reviewing cha transportation further triplet lane route 1213
[17:21] is identified as a local road. It's undivided with a 35 mile per hour
[17:25] speed limit. A traffic count was provided by grove sl, which showed
[17:29] that no improvements would be required due to the proposed development. The
[17:34] applicant is proposing to relocate the entrance on triplet to correct the current
[17:38] situation of forsight distance due to the current jog in the road.
[17:42] the applicant has also proffered right of way to vdot to be determined at
[17:47] the time of plan development in order to create a safer entrance.
[17:52] the community meeting was held on october 20th, 2025. Six.
[17:56] members of the public attendant as well as the applicants citizen comments
[18:00] were related to vegetative buffers with the adjacent property to the north
[18:05] fencing around the outside storage area and how the entrance changes
[18:09] would affect the property to the north.
[18:15] this slide is a summary of the proffered conditions and I do have them all available.
[18:20] um, on, on a full screen if there's any questions regarding the specific language.
[18:24] the proffers include general conformance with a conceptual plan,
[18:29] which is exhibit a in the staff report, a landscape buffer to
[18:33] be provided along the northern property line and at the eastern, um,
[18:37] parcel for wells to be drilled rather than board
[18:41] for construction hours to be limited to 7:00 am to p 8:00 pm monday
[18:45] through saturday for right of right of way dedication to be dedicated
[18:50] along triplet. At the time of planet development, the applicant has
[18:54] proffered out specific uses to include junk storage,
[18:58] sawmills, car wash, debris landfill, solar energy facility,
[19:03] or wind turbines. All outdoor storage
[19:07] must be permanently screened from all public roads by either vegetation or fencing.
[19:11] this is also demonstrated on the concept plan.
[19:17] madam chair, this concludes the staff presentation. The applicant is here to answer questions
[19:21] if needed. Do you have any questions from me at this time? None. No.
[19:25] any questions? I have a quick one. What is the thought behind the wells being
[19:29] drilled rather than board? Uh, that's a common condition that we
[19:33] do see in goochland and then the difference is really longevity and
[19:38] I can explain the difference between the two, but that's, that's a, that's a common, um,
[19:42] proffer that we see in gland. Thank you. Thank you. Um, quick
[19:46] question on the, um, the site plan. Am I to assume the front
[19:50] portion looking at, um, sorry, if you wanna go back. Yeah, I can kind of,
[19:58] I'm pushing the button, I promise. No, you're good. Take your time. You
[20:02] want this? Okay. The front portion,
[20:06] is that all going to be paved with the back portion being gravel? Is that why
[20:10] you're showing the discrepancy in, um, in the, yeah.
[20:14] thank you. The texture of it is that yes, that demonstrated is is the texture? Yes ma'am. Okay. Mm-hmm
[20:18] . Okay. Thank you. And there's a proposed, I think gate here
[20:23] to differentiate the two between the storage and the, the public parking areas. Okay. Okay.
[20:27] thank you.
[20:31] any other questions? Nope. Okay. Okay. I'll, um, introduce the applicant's representative.
[20:39] hi, good evening everyone. My name is andrew browning with
[20:43] the engineering firm youngblood tyler and associates here representing the applicant. Uh, mr.
[20:47] bj snead who is also with me, uh, I do not have a presentation, but I'm
[20:51] happy to answer any questions that you may have.
[20:56] any questions for the applicant? No. No, we're good. Thank you. Thank
[21:01] you. Alright.
[21:05] um, let's see here. Um,
[21:10] I will now open up the public hearing for this case. Um, is there anyone
[21:14] that would like to speak on this case, either in this room or in the overflow rooms?
[21:19] and I'll pause for a couple seconds in case anyone would like to come from the overflow
[21:24] rooms.
[21:35] all right. Uh, seeing no one, I will now close, uh, the public comment
[21:39] period for this case.
[21:44] all right. Any, no. It seems to me that the
[21:49] applicant's done, uh, what they need to do in, uh,
[21:53] response to the public meeting. Yeah.
[21:57] would anyone like to make a motion? Yeah, I
[22:01] move that we, uh, the commission recommend approval of rezoning
[22:06] rz 2 0 2 5 0 0 0 0 6 application
[22:10] by bj hauling llc with proper conditions as presented.
[22:15] second. Alright, mr. Dean?
[22:21] aye. Mr. Mclaughlin? Aye. Ms. Kowalski aye.
[22:25] mr. Patak aye. Mr. Kimberly aye.
[22:29] the motion to recommend approval passes on a five oh vote. This case case
[22:34] is tentatively scheduled to be heard by the board of supervisors march 3rd, 2026.
[22:39] it moves forward with a recommendation of approval from the planning commission.
[22:44] our second public hearing item this evening is in district four,
[22:48] cu 20 25 11. Application by jose carmen
[22:53] correa ano and anna isabel ramirez. Ano
[22:57] requesting a conditional use permit cup for an accessory family housing
[23:01] unit detached on 2.01 acres at 2 2 0 2
[23:06] mannequin road on tax map number 47 9 0 3
[23:11] c. The property is owned agricultural limited a two. The cup
[23:15] is required by county zoning ordinance section 15 1 12 in accordance
[23:19] with section 15 2 85 a. The comprehensive plan designates
[23:23] this area as rural enhancement area. Okay, we're gonna take
[23:27] a quick pause while mr. Dean, uh, recuses himself and leaves the room. Yeah. Madam
[23:31] chair, I do recuse myself. Thank you.
[23:43] go ahead. Good evening, madam chairwoman, my and members of
[23:47] the commission. My name is ben ellis. I'm a planner for the county.
[23:52] for you is an application by jose carmen correa arno and
[23:56] ana isabelle ramirez. Arno for condition
[24:00] use permit for an accessory family housing unit. Detached
[24:06] property is located on about two acres at 2 2 0 2 mannequin road in
[24:10] district four. The map on the left shows the general
[24:14] vicinity of the property within the county. The map on the right shows the property outlined
[24:18] in red, the property as well as the surrounding properties exhibit
[24:23] a rural character.
[24:27] the property and adjacent properties are zoned a two agricultural limited.
[24:31] the comprehensive plan designates this property and the surrounding properties as rural
[24:35] enhancement area.
[24:41] the property is currently occupied by a single family dwelling as well as a detached garage.
[24:46] the approximate location of the existing dwelling is shown by the green square.
[24:51] the approximate location of the detached garage is shown by the blue square.
[24:56] the applicant is proposing to construct an accessory family housing unit upon approval of
[25:00] this conditional use permit. The proposed location of this
[25:04] additional dwelling as indicated by the applicant, is shown by the red
[25:08] square. The applicant currently accesses the property through a shared
[25:12] drive that is shared by all three properties,
[25:16] but as you can see on the plat to the right, this drive does not fall the platt right of
[25:21] way, which is outlined in green. The addition, in
[25:25] addition to the right of way, there is another issue involving the access
[25:29] connection. On july 2nd, 2024, gland county updated
[25:33] its private road standards. These new private road standards increased
[25:37] the minimum road width from 16 feet to 20 feet. The
[25:41] minimum, excuse me, the driveway is classified as a private road as it
[25:46] provides access to at least three lots. Road currently does
[25:50] not appear to meet the current standards.
[25:54] the applicant hosted a community meeting on june 16th at gland fire and rescue
[25:59] station three eight citizens attended. The applicant explained
[26:03] the proposal and discussion included the location of the proposed dwelling,
[26:07] the location of the proposed train field in relation to the neighboring well
[26:12] visibility of the proposed dwelling, setbacks, land disturbance,
[26:16] size, and height of the proposed dwelling and well types
[26:22] two members of the public expressed concern with the proposal with one
[26:26] additional member expressing support
[26:31] with the draft conditions. This proposed use would be in compliance with the comprehensive plan.
[26:38] in addition to the standard conditions for this use, staff is recommending two additional
[26:43] conditions. Conditions one through five are standard conditions. Conditions
[26:47] one through three relate to the use of the property conditions. Four
[26:51] and five relate to safety
[26:56] to resolve the issues of non-conformity with the access connections. Staff has proposed that the
[27:00] road be brought into conformance before the issuance of a building permit.
[27:04] for this proposed dwelling staff has proposed two options as
[27:08] to how the applicant may, uh, remedy the situation.
[27:14] the first option would to be to rebuild the road within the access easement to current
[27:18] standards. The second would be to improve the
[27:23] existing road to current standards and move and replace the easement over the
[27:27] existing road. Secondly, in
[27:31] response to the neighbor's concerns, staff has proposed a vegetative screening requirement.
[27:39] if condition eight, this permit would be valid for a period of 10 years.
[27:43] the last condition is the county's standard transfer and lease language.
[27:48] finally, I'd be happy to answer any questions from the commission at this time.
[27:53] thank you. Uh, what questions I do? Yep. Um,
[27:58] the shared road, is the applicant willing to make those changes
[28:02] to that road? The applicant has indicated they're willing to make those changes.
[28:07] okay. Um, second, the second dwelling.
[28:11] approximately how large is that going to be? Square footage?
[28:29] is it approximately the same size as the first dwelling?
[28:34] I'm sorry. Um, the proposed square footage of
[28:38] the building is 2,467 square feet.
[28:43] um, I cannot tell you what that is in relation to the existing dwelling.
[28:47] okay. ? Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm
[28:51] . Pretty large. Thank you.
[28:56] and the amount of setback from the
[29:00] property line is approximately how much again? Um, this use
[29:04] will be required to meet principal structure setbacks, uh, which from the sides,
[29:08] uh, property lines is 20 feet from each side. Okay.
[29:15] there was a community meeting, uh, you mentioned there was, there was a few people
[29:19] in opposition? Yes. Were any of those people,
[29:24] um, the landowner where the new easement is coming through?
[29:29] um, no, the, uh, the easement or
[29:33] sorry, the landowner up front? Yeah, no. Um, the neighbors
[29:37] adjacent though are concerned. Okay.
[29:41] their concern being, um, I believe they're here and they
[29:45] may speak on that matter. Okay. Um, I just, um, I'm
[29:49] refer referencing these, um, property orders. Parcel b? Yes.
[29:53] okay. Thank you.
[29:59] any other questions? No. Okay. Alright. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Uh,
[30:03] would the applicant like to speak?
[30:17] hi, my name is yo holly and this is my husband daniel, and we
[30:21] are here representing my in-laws, um, who are the ones
[30:25] that put in the application for the conditional use permit.
[30:30] um, if you guys have any questions, uh, feel free to let us know. Okay. Thank
[30:34] you. Do you have any questions? Any questions?
[30:41] I, I guess, um, my question would be is what's the concern of
[30:45] the people that own parcel b with your project?
[30:49] um, I believe one of their concerns was,
[30:54] um, the driveway. But I, I'm gonna let them
[30:58] extend on that. I'm not really sure what their concern is. Um,
[31:02] I know my in-laws have accepted to widen the current
[31:06] road that is there and then do like the new easement there. Right.
[31:11] and they're willing to, obviously that is on,
[31:15] on them to get that taken care of. Okay.
[31:21] any other questions for the applicant? No. No. Okay. Thank you.
[31:25] thank you. Thank you. Uh,
[31:30] I will now open, uh, the public comment period for this case.
[31:34] would anyone like to come forward either from this main hall or from,
[31:38] uh, one of our, um, overflow rooms? If so, please
[31:43] come up. State your name and address and you'll have three minutes to speak. I'm on the list, so I wasn't
[31:47] sure. Um, can I go now? Yeah. Yes ma'am. See
[31:51] katie? Yes. Katie martin. Um, my husband here, josh martin,
[31:55] live at 2200 mannequin road. Um,
[31:59] and I'd just like to clarify on the, on the whole driveway, I'm actually, um,
[32:03] opposed to changing it. I'm in favor of just leaving it and you guys not having to do anything with
[32:08] it. Um, so my, um, I've emailed you guys
[32:12] previously and just wanted to make sure that it made it into the minutes. So that's
[32:16] kind of why I'm here speaking. Um, I can go back through the emails
[32:20] if you know that I, that I sent y'all, if that is, that, that would be helpful. Yes, please.
[32:24] thank you. Absolutely. Um, I'm writing as
[32:29] a resident of the property owner at 2200 mannequin road regarding the proposed condition conditional
[32:33] use permit for the accessory dwelling at 2202 mannequin road.
[32:38] first, I wanna express that I fully support responsible development, and my intent
[32:42] is not to prevent my neighbors from improving or expanding their property.
[32:46] I understand the value that accessory housing can bring to our community. However, after
[32:50] reviewing the proposed site plan, I have concerns about the location of the
[32:54] proposed structure as it currently relates to the privacy character and
[32:59] enjoyment of my property at 2200 mannequin road.
[33:03] specifically the proposed placement, excuse me, of
[33:07] the accessory dwelling is in very close proximity to my backyard and
[33:11] living area. And I'm concerned that with even the proposed screening, the structures
[33:15] location will significantly impact the privacy of our outdoor living space.
[33:20] after the character alter the character of my property in ways that are not
[33:24] sufficiently mitigated by landscaping or fencing affect my ability to comfortably
[33:28] enjoy our yard and our home to address these concerns while still
[33:32] allowing the project to move forward. I respectfully request that the commission consider
[33:37] requiring the applicant to relocate the proposed accessor accessible
[33:41] accessory dwelling further down their property property, ideally
[33:45] closer to the existing living quarters or garage. I believe this adjustment
[33:49] would better balance the needs of all parties preserving re reasonable
[33:54] privacy and enjoyment without preventing use of their property. Additionally,
[33:58] I would like to suggest that the county consider revising the easement agreement
[34:02] to maintain the driveway in its current location rather than creating a new access point
[34:06] through the existing properties. Keeping the driveway where it currently
[34:11] exists would help minimize new disturbances to neighboring properties and preserve
[34:15] existing usage patterns. Um, in addition to that,
[34:20] we're concerned about the potential effects of construction and ground disturbance on our well, which
[34:24] is located very close to the area, um, where they're proposing,
[34:28] we're worried about the structural integrity and long-term safety of our well system.
[34:32] and eva, um, evacuation incurs so close to
[34:36] it, respectfully request that this aspect be considered by the commission.
[34:42] did you guys have any questions for me
[34:46] to I do. Um, to make it easier on you, is there
[34:51] a better location or is it just a slight moving of where it
[34:55] is? I mean, it's an odd shaped piece of property. It is an odd shaped property
[34:59] and it, and it's, it's very slanted. Okay. Um, the property itself,
[35:04] I don't, I don't know what their availability is down there. Um, I just
[35:08] know where the proposed lot, I mean, it's, yeah, I sent pictures in this morning, I'd
[35:12] be happy to turn them in. It is so thin through there already.
[35:16] um, you know, seeing their property, that having a home right there, you
[35:20] know, in our backyard where a pool is and, you know, we entertain right. Pinch, you know, it's just, um,
[35:25] and as you mentioned, it's, it's a, it's a pretty large home that they're looking to build. Yeah.
[35:29] um, and I feel like it had, it's kind of, kind of hinder right. In
[35:33] our, our space. Got it. Um, so I, I, you know, I,
[35:38] I want them to be able to, to build, but sure. I'm just wondering if we can be open
[35:42] to some other location to where it's not,
[35:46] you know, infringing on our, our property lines. Thank you. Mm-hmm .
[35:51] any other questions? No, you did say it's a slanted property. Um,
[35:55] is, so I, I assume that as you get farther from the road, it drops
[36:00] down. Is that what you mean by that? So when we, so the shared driveway,
[36:04] um, the two homes, my home and the front neighbor, he, it's, it's
[36:08] flat. But to get down to their home, you have to go down a, a pretty large, um,
[36:13] decline to get down. So they're from my house down to
[36:17] them. It's, it's a pretty large decline. All right. And,
[36:21] and to the garage that they have, do you familiar with
[36:25] that? Is that, is that, uh, a, a downhill grade as well?
[36:30] it is slan down. Yeah. That's what you mean by that. From where we we're. Yeah. Alright. Yeah.
[36:34] and I feel like where they're looking to build is, is more at the top of
[36:38] where the slant, you know, is kind of down. So you prefer it to be more down toward
[36:42] the garage? I do, yeah. Because, you know, we don't really see the garage. I mean, I can see it, but it's
[36:46] not okay. It's not there, you know, that seems fair.
[36:51] yeah. Thank you. Um, ben? Yes.
[36:56] would the applicant be a available to talk about making
[37:00] those changes or, uh, would you like to
[37:04] come up respond? I'm sorry.
[37:11] yeah. So there is a reason you've proposed this location?
[37:15] um, yes. Um, the lot is
[37:20] very weirdly shaped mm-hmm . And I know ideally
[37:24] my in-laws wouldn't prefer the house to be in the
[37:28] location that it is set to be right now, but just playing
[37:32] around with the setbacks and the soil evaluation setbacks
[37:37] and their well is on the line.
[37:41] so for septic, we have to have the house there
[37:46] and put the septic on the other side of the property. That way
[37:50] his well does not affect it. And we respect the
[37:54] feet that they setbacks, the setbacks that they ask him between these, the new
[37:59] septic and then his, well,
[38:04] so you, you're saying that you, there's no way you
[38:08] could move it even slightly down, out of her
[38:12] backyard and toward your garage? Uh, because the setbacks
[38:16] on the garage, uh, I don't know what is the setbacks,
[38:21] but I don't think we can put close to the garage because they, uh,
[38:25] the setbacks require a big amount
[38:29] on people. I'm not sure I understand setbacks. Yes.
[38:33] um, so in addition to the, uh, for principal
[38:37] structure, which would be a dwelling or an accessory dwelling, right. Um, they're required to have,
[38:41] uh, be 20 feet off of the side property lines, which would be these three as well as this
[38:45] one. Yep. And 35 feet off of the rear property line. Mm-hmm
[38:50] . Uh, the, um, garage may be located closer
[38:54] than that. Um, as an accessory structure, it's only required to be five feet off
[38:58] of a rear and side property line. So it seems there would be some
[39:02] room available to slide that second dwelling down toward
[39:06] the garage to at least get it somewhat out of the way.
[39:11] that make sense? It is a, um, awkward shaped lot.
[39:16] yeah, I see that. Great constraints, um, I think
[39:20] goes straight south, straight towards the garage can solve the same,
[39:24] it's the only place you can go.
[39:28] is there a driveway going from to the
[39:32] garage currently? The, the blue, is there any type of a driveway going
[39:36] to that right now? Yes. Uh, so this would eliminate that
[39:40] driveway? Correct. Over there. Be now we
[39:44] will, we will have the house on the other side of the existing driveway.
[39:50] the, the driveway will be stay on. Where is it? So there's also
[39:54] a driveway that's going to be next to the proposed,
[39:58] uh, that driveway is for, for the entrance between, uh,
[40:02] manakin road and our property.
[40:07] okay. But there is, is there a driveway? Yeah. Right now extending
[40:12] from go ahead, ben. Around all the way back to yes. All the way
[40:16] back to that blue garage back there. And would that driveway be impact,
[40:20] is it, is it gonna be on one side or the other of this proposed house or is
[40:24] it going away? Will we stay on the same?
[40:29] on the same? So where is it right now?
[40:33] right by the garage, I imagine. Right. This would be the right of the proposed house. To
[40:37] the right of the proposed house. Yeah. So but between your property and
[40:41] their property, correct? Mm-hmm . Or it would be between the proposed house
[40:45] and their property, correct? Mm-hmm . Okay. That would make, or that
[40:49] would make a vegetative screening difficult if there's a
[40:54] driveway there, but
[41:03] 13, um, I believe so the driveway is located,
[41:07] um, exactly to the right side. And I think from the driveway
[41:11] to their property, it's about like 13 to 14 feet. So there
[41:15] is, I know on here it looks a little bit thinner. It does, yeah. I don't have any
[41:19] images with me like to show exactly how it
[41:23] is right now, but there is enough space to do like the,
[41:28] the plantings that are being proposed. And then
[41:38] I'm still kind of hung up on, I, I get what you are with the garage. I just don't
[41:42] know that you can make that dwelling as we see it on this map.
[41:47] move down south, south toward the garage
[41:51] to at least help relieve your neighbor's,
[41:56] you know, interest in having some more space right behind
[42:00] her backyard. Mm-hmm . Ben, ben, what is the, um, feet
[42:04] difference between the, the the red proposed and, and the, the
[42:08] garage? The, what is that approximately in terms of elevation? Is that what you mean?
[42:12] no, just feet distance apart. Distance, distance apart. Um, maybe given
[42:16] the, the red square only indicates the approximate location of the dwelling,
[42:21] uh, specific, specific review of the location of the
[42:25] dwelling and uh, to make sure that it's meeting required setbacks
[42:29] would take place during building permit review. Um, at this time, this is a conceptual
[42:34] plan. Okay? Mm-hmm . Okay, ben. Um,
[42:38] is it possible, well, maybe this is a better question for you.
[42:43] . Can, can we make it so there's not a new easement
[42:48] as, as part of the conditions?
[42:56] mr. Mclaughlin, the easement is a private easement that sits on
[43:00] the property. So, and my understanding of this, and I will let ben
[43:04] speak to this, is this is a code compliance issue with regard to entrance and
[43:09] the number of dwellings and or lots that are to be served by this
[43:13] private road or driveway. But the easement itself was put there
[43:17] when the original landowner subdivided the property. And it goes back
[43:21] a little bit in time, if I remember correctly, but the county is
[43:25] not a party to that easement. It's a private easement. Mm-hmm .
[43:31] did I answer your question? Yeah, yeah,
[43:35] I think so. Please. On the left side
[43:39] of the new property, uh, I'm sorry, on the left side of the new
[43:43] building or the new mm-hmm . Uh, threat, we will
[43:47] have the septic lines because on the right
[43:51] side is his well, so it is why when we was doing the soil
[43:56] test and all the evaluations for, for the septic, yeah. They put
[44:00] the septic on the, on the
[44:04] left side because on the right side he has his, well on
[44:08] his wall is not deep in there with about a hundred, I think it's
[44:13] a hundred feet from the septic to his. Well, and
[44:17] it is why the house is there because we will have
[44:21] to have the septic on the older side. Okay.
[44:26] counsel, may I share, um, with the planning commission,
[44:30] the, uh, applicant's, um, soil evaluation that
[44:34] they submitted. Okay.
[45:15] I see a proposed, proposed. Well, that's what I was saying.
[45:20] there's not proposed
[45:29] that that's that
[45:41] in house
[45:50] right here.
[45:56] right. But I don't see why they can't drop this
[46:00] just closer. And as they move that way, they're dropping terrain.
[46:05] I get it, but I mean, not sure.
[46:10] and they can't go in that direction because of
[46:14] the septic field. Mm-hmm . Thank you for your patience. Yeah. Chris,
[46:20] that's really gonna help.
[46:25] question. I it,
[46:31] so there's, we go, so that's this dot on the map here, right? Mm-hmm
[46:35] .
[46:39] but you see this is where their house is. Mm-hmm . You move this
[46:43] down, they're much further away.
[46:47] okay. Thank you. Thank
[46:51] you ben.
[46:56] so what we're looking at is just a, a draft, a draft, um, from matthew's soil.
[47:01] uh, it shows where all the existing dwellings are, the barn,
[47:05] um, the proposed house. It shows where,
[47:10] um, the new septic would go and mm-hmm . The
[47:14] well locations. Just explaining that to,
[47:18] to everyone in the crowd.
[47:26] so initially on the first meeting, I, I know,
[47:30] so this issue was discussed and I'm aware that my
[47:34] in-laws initially wanted to build a two story
[47:38] home, um, just because of like the width of that piece of land,
[47:43] right. Um, after hearing their,
[47:47] um, concerns regarding the property being located
[47:51] there, um, they have accepted to do it
[47:55] a one story house. That way it's not
[48:00] that high up and it won't invade their privacy as much as a one story or
[48:04] a one level homewood as a two level homewood, that's a big deal.
[48:09] yeah. Um, I
[48:13] you're representing your in-laws, correct? Yeah. I'm just wondering whether we,
[48:17] we shouldn't have them here to kind of make a decision
[48:21] that you don't have to make for them. They're here with
[48:25] us. We're just, oh, I'm sorry. Just decided to come up here due to the
[48:30] language barrier. Oh, didn't know that. I'm sorry. I thought they were not available. Yeah, it's their present time.
[48:34] . Got it. Okay.
[48:41] he is willing to also do eight, eight feet fans
[48:46] vis fence. Can you, uh, push the mic closer a little bit so everybody can hear you?
[48:50] he's willing to, uh, build a eight, eight
[48:55] feet fence, uh, to hold the vis okay. On
[48:59] in the backyard? Yes. And then, uh, all along their property. So an eight
[49:03] foot privacy fence and then some green evergreen es that
[49:07] will be growing also could be help de bit helping.
[49:21] and are those listed as conditions? Ben? No. Uh,
[49:25] the eight foot fence? I don't think that was now, no, there was no think she's just offering them now?
[49:29] no, there was no fence. Uh, that is not a current condition, right?
[49:33] it's just a vegetative screening. Okay.
[49:39] okay. Uh, so then go ahead. I was just gonna,
[49:44] we talk to yeah. Each other. Yeah. Um,
[49:49] I'm not sure if it's been explored how far south, right. They
[49:53] can go. I really wanna see 'em come a little further south. Yep. I agree.
[49:57] I was looking at the topo on the, on the map and where the new drain field go and the,
[50:01] and propose. Well, I, I'm not sure. I, I think it might be
[50:06] possible, but if not, we, I'd at least wanna see like a letter from
[50:10] someone saying that it's not possible to go further towards the barn.
[50:15] I agree. Mm-hmm . I'll do that. Uh,
[50:19] would a deferral, um, until that can be explored,
[50:23] I think that's the answer. Uh, maybe the march meeting as what would that
[50:27] be? Um, march 19th. You have march 19th. Uh,
[50:32] february 19th or march 19th. March 19th, okay. Mm-hmm . Um,
[50:37] madam chair, I believe you'll want to close the public hearing when that time comes.
[50:41] my apologies. Um, well, or is anybody else have, would
[50:45] anyone else like to speak? There's no one in that one.
[50:49] that one in there? Okay. I'll now close the public hearing.
[50:54] madam chair, I move that the commission defer consideration of conditional
[50:58] use permit cu 2 0 2 5 dash 0 0 0 1 1.
[51:02] application by jose carmen correa hanno and
[51:06] anna isabel ramirez. Ohno to
[51:11] march, february. March, uh,
[51:16] march. Let's do march. March, march.
[51:20] I'll second. Uh,
[51:24] mr. Kimberly.
[51:29] aye. Mr. Patek? Aye. Ms. Kowalski?
[51:34] aye. Mr. Mclaughlin aye. The motion to defer to
[51:38] the march 19th, 2026 planning commission meeting passes
[51:42] on a, on a four oh vote.
[51:47] thank you. Mm-hmm . Our third public hearing item tonight
[51:52] is in district two and district three, rz
[51:56] 20 25 7. Application by s barbie cox
[52:01] third requesting a proffer amendment to rezoning case rz 2006
[52:06] 26 project rose retreat to waive zoning ordinance
[52:10] section 15 3 53 requiring right and
[52:14] left turn lanes on two on 225.6
[52:19] 12 acres on four house road, approximately 0.9 miles west of
[52:23] sandy hook road on tax map numbers 31 1 0 19 a
[52:28] 30 27 a 1 0 30 27
[52:32] b 1, 31 1 19 31, 1 19
[52:37] b and 31 19 d. The property is zoned residential
[52:43] preservation rp with proffered conditions. The comprehensive plan
[52:47] designates this area as rural enhancement area.
[52:51] thank you, ms. Parker. Madam chair again for the record. My name's carrie
[52:55] raglan and I'll be providing the staff presentation for this application.
[53:00] as stated, this request is in both districts two and three. It is an application
[53:04] for a proffer amendment to rezoning case rz 2006 26
[53:09] for the purpose of securing a waiver from the county turn lane requirements.
[53:15] the vicinity map on the left shows a subject area outlined in red, while
[53:19] the aerial photo on the right indicates a subject property also outlined in red.
[53:23] for a better reference, the parcel is located south of poorhouse road
[53:27] about a mile east of route 5 22, which is sandy hook road.
[53:34] the zoning map on the left demonstrates the property as the rp residential
[53:38] preservation district and the adjacent properties as the a two agricultural
[53:43] district. The comprehensive plan map on the right demonstrates the subject
[53:47] property and adjacent properties all as rural enhancement area.
[53:55] the property was approved for a rezoning in 2007 from
[53:59] the a two agricultural district to the rp residential preservation
[54:03] district for a 45 lot subdivision. A tentative plot
[54:07] was approved by the planning commission in 2008, but expired in 2020
[54:12] as no further action or permits were taken on the property. Staff understand
[54:17] that the reason for no activity was primarily due to the timing of the
[54:21] approval around the 2008 recession. In
[54:25] 2024, the county code requirements for access management changed,
[54:30] requiring a left and right turn lane for the proposed development. The
[54:34] development was not grandfathered into any previous code requirements due to inactivity.
[54:40] today the developer must either install the turn lanes or receive
[54:44] a waiver from the board of supervisors in the form of a proffer amendment.
[54:52] the request before you tonight is to consider the proffer amendment to rezoning case
[54:56] rz 2006 26. No changes are
[55:00] proposed other than adding the 13th proffer, which is proffer m to request
[55:05] the turn lane waivers. The new proffer requests a full waiver
[55:09] from the left turn lane requirements and a variation from the right turn lane
[55:13] requirements. The slide
[55:17] shows the proffered concept plan. The image is quite busy, but
[55:21] I'll point out the proposed developments shaded mostly in gray here,
[55:26] which is two internal loops with 45 lots surrounded by
[55:30] open space. And then the, uh, entrance proposed here on poorhouse
[55:34] road
[55:42] access management now requires that developments located on a collector
[55:46] road as defined by the major thoroughfare plan with five lots
[55:50] or more. Must provide a right turn lane. Similarly, developments
[55:55] with a, with 10 lots or more on a collector road. Must provide left
[55:59] turn lanes as poorhouse road is classified as a major collector
[56:03] in the mtp poorhouse road is classified as a major collector. Thank you.
[56:15] let's see. County code requires an auxiliary lane and turn tapers
[56:20] for turn lanes. The applicant is proffering right turn taper into the development
[56:25] as demonstrated in the image on the right, but it is not a full auxiliary
[56:29] lane. Therefore, the request is for a waiver from both the left and
[56:33] right turn lane full requirements.
[56:40] the code further identifies five factors that the board should consider with the
[56:45] waiver request. These include site distance, road alignment, and
[56:49] grade changes, frequency of rear end crashes along the roadway
[56:53] traffic volume, speed limit, and capacity analysis of
[56:57] the receiving roadway.
[57:02] to address these concerns, the applicant has provided a letter addressing the five factors
[57:07] stating that the entrance location exceeds the vdot required site
[57:12] distance along poorhouse road that no rear end collisions have occurred in
[57:16] the past eight years. That the proposed development would generate an additional
[57:20] 534 trips per day, that the statutory
[57:24] speed is 55 miles per hour. And that with
[57:28] the addition of the proposed development poorhouse road, would be at approximately 12%
[57:33] of the roadways overall capacity.
[57:40] their letter further argues that there is not enough development developer
[57:44] owned right of way to install the left turn lane pursuant to
[57:48] the vdot design standards. Also submitted with the application
[57:53] was a turn lane warrant analysis prepared by grove slate, which states
[57:57] that a left turn lane is not required by vdot standards.
[58:05] the slide provides a visual reference along poorhouse road at the approximate
[58:10] site entrance showing both an eastbound and westbound view
[58:18] reviewing the comprehensive plan. The subject property and all adjacent properties
[58:23] are designated as rural enhancement. Some definitions are provided here
[58:27] on the screen. The application is consistent with the comprehensive
[58:31] plan.
[58:35] a community meeting was held on november 12th, 2025. Four citizens
[58:39] were in attendance along with board of supervisor member jonathan lyle and planning commissioner
[58:44] martin dean. Questions were raised regarding the provided traffic
[58:48] study for the development, the existing traffic at the intersection of
[58:52] poorhouse road and route 5 22, secondary access for
[58:56] the proposed development and timelines for construction
[59:00] staff also answered questions regarding the rationale for the 2024
[59:04] access management code changes and which other applications had
[59:09] received the waiver since the code changes
[59:15] on this screen is the precise new proffer language, which requests
[59:19] the two waivers from the board of supervisors, but also proffers
[59:23] the right turn taper as demonstrated on the approved conceptual
[59:28] plan and proffer sees at the bottom of the screen for
[59:32] reference as they reference each other.
[59:37] madam chair, this concludes the staff presentation. Uh, the applicant
[59:41] is here and does have a, um, a powerpoint slide
[59:45] as well. Do you have any questions for me at this time?
[59:51] any questions? Um, just so I understand it,
[59:56] um, vdot is not recommending they
[1:00:00] put in either turn lane correct. By their standards? Pardon
[1:00:04] me? But the county does. Yes, sir. The
[1:00:08] county has stricter code requirements, so there's really not
[1:00:12] a choice. The code does provide provisions for
[1:00:17] considering a waiver. Okay.
[1:00:21] poor house road is 55. It is. Mm-hmm .
[1:00:25] unposted speed statutory is 55. That's fast.
[1:00:30] that's what what was the thinking behind the rationale of
[1:00:34] the new, uh, ordinance for a right and left turn lane?
[1:00:38] I believe it was generally for safety and there's some language in the code which, um,
[1:00:42] calls out the reason for some of the auxiliary lanes. I included, um,
[1:00:46] a snippet on one of the slides. I can bring that up, but it, it just generally for safety.
[1:00:51] okay. Do we know what the site
[1:00:55] distance in feet from that proposed entrance on
[1:00:59] either side around approximately? Is that ever, that's
[1:01:04] something that we generally see in the precise measurements with the plan of development. Okay.
[1:01:08] um, so we don't have the opportunity to, so we're not even there engineer that at, at this time.
[1:01:12] I believe that's something the applicant has considered, but there's no plan of
[1:01:16] development at this time for staff to, um, confirm. But you did show
[1:01:20] two photographs. Mm-hmm . Looking east and west. Yes, sir. I can pull those
[1:01:24] up again. Yeah.
[1:01:34] yeah. And I will note this is at the approximate
[1:01:38] entrance location. I can't be certain. Sure. You know, a couple dozen feet one
[1:01:43] way or the other. Mm-hmm .
[1:01:47] you mentioned that they don't currently have right of ways for
[1:01:51] the left full left turn lane. Yes, sir. But they do for a taper.
[1:01:56] yes. And do you know if there's been an attempt to gain right of way?
[1:02:00] I believe the applicant will discuss that at his presentation. And my recollection is,
[1:02:04] um, he has asked and has gotten mixed answers.
[1:02:11] it says in there there's an increases uh, traffic by
[1:02:15] 530 some cars. Is that right? Mm-hmm . Do you know the calculation
[1:02:19] how they come up with that number? It's based on an ite count. So that essentially
[1:02:23] there's a, a book that they use to generate the number of, um, traffic
[1:02:28] expected for developments. And it's a, it's a standard calculation.
[1:02:32] okay. For 49 lots, that would be an extra 534
[1:02:38] daily trips for 45 lots. Yes ma'am. Or 45 lots they had stated 534.
[1:02:43] yeah, roughly it's 10 trips per per house.
[1:02:48] so more things than I do. I believe that
[1:02:52] their traffic expert is here as well. You my specific questions leaving five
[1:02:56] times, coming back five times with, you know, a family of how many,
[1:03:01] so, okay.
[1:03:06] so I guess the question is, is how much does a taper help versus
[1:03:11] a full turn lane?
[1:03:15] the code calls out the need for an auxiliary lane, um, in order to move traffic
[1:03:19] off the road. So the, the, the taper
[1:03:23] does allow for traffic to slowly turn in, but it doesn't provide a full auxiliary
[1:03:27] lane for traffic to pass by. Thus, that would be the full lane. That would be the full auxiliary
[1:03:32] lane. Turn lane. Mm-hmm . So partial versus
[1:03:36] fall. Yes. Is there any, um,
[1:03:40] thought on vdot putting any, um, signage, um,
[1:03:45] around this entrance if the turn lanes are waived? Um,
[1:03:50] that is not a discussion that we've had with vdot. Um, as vdot doesn't
[1:03:55] require the turn lanes, I wouldn't imagine there would be a requirement for
[1:03:59] any different signage, I thought.
[1:04:05] any other questions? No, no, no. I'd just like to hear from the applicant. Thank you. Uh, would
[1:04:09] the applicant like to come up and speak?
[1:04:13] what let you do that
[1:04:34] front back?
[1:04:41] good evening, madam chair. My name is jeff geiger here on behalf of the applicant.
[1:04:47] um, I appreciate the commission's, um, consideration of this,
[1:04:51] uh, waiver request. Uh, I thank mr. Raglan for, uh, a good summary.
[1:04:56] I'm gonna dive into the details just a little bit more touch on a couple things, uh,
[1:05:00] that she mentioned. But my goal is to, um, dive in a little bit more on the details.
[1:05:05] um, as she mentioned, uh, this case was approved, uh, oh roughly
[1:05:09] about 20 years ago. Um, and in that, at that time,
[1:05:14] um, the board had the foresight to say, you do need a
[1:05:18] taper for that right turn lane. And we're here to say
[1:05:22] we're happy to do that, no problem. We're just asking for permission
[1:05:26] to move forward on the same basis that the board approved it 20 years ago.
[1:05:32] um, this is a drawing, uh, it's a closeup of the intersection,
[1:05:36] uh, that, uh, ms. Raglan showed you. Uh, it does show what
[1:05:41] we are proposing and what the board approved 20 years ago. There
[1:05:45] is a right turn taper. It's 150 feet long
[1:05:49] so you have enough time for the car to move to begin its movement into
[1:05:54] the taper and then be into the, in making the turn, uh, before
[1:05:58] another car passes.
[1:06:04] um, I believe the question was asked,
[1:06:09] did we? Who, who did we talk to? What are we trying to do?
[1:06:13] and in order to meet the vdot requirements, yes, ms.
[1:06:18] raglin is correct, you have a higher
[1:06:22] standard for providing a turn lane. It's just unfortunate
[1:06:26] that vdot controls the roads. And so
[1:06:30] vdot says, we would love for you to turn in, put in turn
[1:06:35] lanes, but you need almost 800 feet
[1:06:39] because it's not just the turn lanes, it the, it's the transition that you
[1:06:43] have to achieve. Mm-hmm . So I put this slide together to show you
[1:06:47] the length of land that is needed to achieve
[1:06:52] two simple turn lanes and it's really the left turn lane.
[1:06:56] now, we did speak to our neighbors on, on the other side
[1:07:00] of poorhouse. The one neighbor has a lot of frontage.
[1:07:06] he's willing to work with us no problem. Unfortunately that's not enough
[1:07:10] and I'll get to that in a minute. The other three neighbors, uh, that
[1:07:14] we spoke to, and we need lane from land from in order to finish the transition.
[1:07:19] it's not the turn lane, it's just the transition that vdot requires. They
[1:07:23] said, no. So that's why we are here today. They said, yes, we
[1:07:27] be moving on.
[1:07:31] now, I mentioned that there is one landowner, landowner on the other side that has
[1:07:36] a lot more road frontage. He's willing to
[1:07:40] help for the good of the county and the county's goals
[1:07:44] and said, so we went to vdot and we said, hey, can we get, and this
[1:07:48] is allowed, it's called the design waiver. Can we get a design waiver for
[1:07:52] a different type of turn lane length and transition?
[1:08:00] no our way or no way.
[1:08:07] as much as we would like to be able to control what vdot does
[1:08:11] and be able to assume some level of reasonableness,
[1:08:15] it is unfortunate their process doesn't work that way.
[1:08:20] so I'd like you to recognize we're not here just because we want to and
[1:08:24] we're just trying to do it the easy way out. We asked, we asked again
[1:08:28] to vdot and we're here because we can.
[1:08:34] and as ms. Raglan mentioned, yes,
[1:08:38] your zoning ordinance in 2024 did add a higher
[1:08:42] standard. But when the board adopted this amendment
[1:08:47] to the zoning ordinance, it realized that it couldn't happen every
[1:08:51] time because you had other forces.
[1:08:55] the government just couldn't dictate to vdot what would happen. The government
[1:08:59] couldn't just dictate to landowners what would happen. And so they put
[1:09:03] this process in place for a waiver.
[1:09:08] as ms. Raglan mentioned, we do meet the requirements,
[1:09:12] we will meet the site distance requirements. We, we have already looked. Ms.
[1:09:17] raglan indicated that that's a later time. I wanna let you know, we've
[1:09:21] looked at the site distance. We have no problem meeting the site distance requirements. And
[1:09:25] I think that's an important point I would like you to consider. Even after
[1:09:29] this waiver, we have to go and get the entrance permit
[1:09:33] from vdot. And vdot will approve that entrance permit only
[1:09:37] if it's safe. And so it's not just us coming
[1:09:42] to the county and asking for this. There's then a second layer of approval
[1:09:46] and checks via vdot. There have been no rear
[1:09:50] end collusions. Why do we encourage turn lanes? It's safety.
[1:09:54] it's safety about the through movement. Um, and there
[1:09:58] is not, when you look at the history on this road, there is not
[1:10:02] a rear end, um, situation occurring. You have
[1:10:07] cars making left and right turn lanes on this road today, but
[1:10:12] it's not a safety issue. Um,
[1:10:16] traffic volume, uh, again, this is a traffic engineering question, but
[1:10:20] it's too low to warrant the turn lanes. Speed limit is
[1:10:24] 55. Man, I wish I could convince vdot to lower speed limits. Uh, as you
[1:10:28] all know they do a traffic study. The speed study is the only way to get the
[1:10:33] traffic, the speed down. If you guys see black lines
[1:10:37] across a road and they're two next to each other, drive slower , because
[1:10:42] that speed has to come down on those when, uh, they're measuring. It's the
[1:10:46] only way they'll lower the speed limit. It's wish we
[1:10:50] could change it. Uh, and then the capacity analysis,
[1:10:54] just wanna let you know, uh, the existing trips, our trips
[1:10:58] are just 10% of the existing road capacity. There is a lot of space
[1:11:02] between these cars on poor house, uh, that adding this
[1:11:07] entrance does not present a safety problem.
[1:11:11] um, as was mentioned, um, there is a history for granting
[1:11:15] it. Uh, the most recent was a long river road. River road has an
[1:11:19] a dt of over 4,000 trips a day. Um,
[1:11:23] when we did our first analysis, um, poorhouse had 800 trips a
[1:11:27] day staff pointed out to us, it had actually fallen to 640
[1:11:32] trips a day. Um, so just wanted to let you know that.
[1:11:37] and again, uh, in summary, um, we're here, uh,
[1:11:42] to ask that, uh, we'd be allowed to move forward, uh, with what the board
[1:11:46] previously approved, uh, which is just that right turn, uh, taper lane.
[1:11:51] um, we are here to ask for the waiver that they thoughtfully
[1:11:56] built into the zoning ordinance, uh, because there are gonna be times when
[1:12:00] property owners aren't going to sell land in order to put in road improvements.
[1:12:05] um, and we meet the requirements for the approval, uh, of the waiver.
[1:12:10] uh, so on behalf of the applicant, um, I'd like to ask,
[1:12:14] uh, that the planning commission recommend, um, approval of the
[1:12:18] waiver request that is before you, I'd be glad to answer
[1:12:22] any questions that the commission may have at this time.
[1:12:29] a taper on a road. Mm-hmm . You're at 150
[1:12:33] feet. Yes ma'am. Can you, is is that
[1:12:37] a standard feet? Uh, I'm sorry, let me rephrase.
[1:12:42] um, can it be more, can it be less or what's the, what's the
[1:12:46] standard for a taper as far as the feet? Um, I've
[1:12:50] done a taper at 50. I've done a taper at a hundred. I've done a taper at 150. I've
[1:12:54] done a taper at 200. Um, so what we've done
[1:12:58] is the standard that length wasn't specified. Okay. And we've maxed it out as
[1:13:03] much as we can without hitting the next landowner.
[1:13:07] okay. If I may show you one thing, um, I'd like to just,
[1:13:11] just because you're asking, I'd like to just mm-hmm . Get it out there please. Um,
[1:13:16] you can see here on the, I focused on the north side where we were asking
[1:13:20] for land because that's where vdot wanted us to put the additional land
[1:13:24] in. Mm-hmm . As part of our conversation with vida, we also asked could we expand
[1:13:28] on the southern side of poorhouse. We have two constraints. One
[1:13:32] is a cemetery we really don't wanna move. Impact the cemetery. Um, you can
[1:13:36] see this small, um, square, it's labeled cemetery. Uh, and
[1:13:41] then the, there is a slight curve in there. And as you guys may know,
[1:13:45] vida has rules for everything and curves are have a rules too.
[1:13:50] and so if we expand anything on the right hand side, we're all of a sudden outside of their
[1:13:54] geometry curvature requirements mm-hmm . Um, and so they're not looking for us to
[1:13:58] do it on that side. Um, where they want it is on the north side of poorhouse.
[1:14:03] okay. Thank you. Other
[1:14:07] questions?
[1:14:12] any question? So even if you wanted to make it a 200 foot taper, you can't,
[1:14:17] 'cause you don't own the property to extend it into the 200. You're correct.
[1:14:27] and if we approve the waiver, or if the board of supervisors approves the waiver,
[1:14:31] you still have to go before vdot. Yes, sir. And they could deny that? Yes,
[1:14:35] sir. Okay. Um, they could deny the entrance design. Yes, sir. Yeah. Alright.
[1:14:40] okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, sir.
[1:14:48] any discussion or, oh, I'm sorry. Yes, you're right.
[1:14:52] thank you. Um, I will now open up the public comment
[1:14:56] for this case. If anyone would like to come forward, please state your name and address
[1:15:01] and I will again pause in case there is anyone from the overflow rooms. Spencer
[1:15:06] warren.
[1:15:12] mm-hmm .
[1:15:18] excuse me. Hi, I'm, I'm spencer warren. I, um,
[1:15:22] I own a property that's kind of adjacent to where, where
[1:15:26] this entry is. Um, I don't really have like a, a proposed answer
[1:15:31] or anything like that, but as far as like my concerned, I'm sorry, could you gimme your
[1:15:35] address please? Yeah. 28 51 poorhouse road. Thank you. Yeah,
[1:15:39] so it's, it's right next to the, to the entryway, but I'm set, my
[1:15:43] house is set back far enough. Like I wouldn't even see it or anything like that, but, but I do have
[1:15:47] general concerns about the road because it is just, I'd call
[1:15:51] it a single lane country road. You know, it's, um, there's, there's
[1:15:56] no center line. There's no shoulder. If you're, you're going 55
[1:16:00] miles an hour, school buses go on the road. It's
[1:16:04] not wide at all. So if you're going in opposing directions
[1:16:08] as say a school bus, you have to slow down from
[1:16:12] the 55 miles an hour. And if you're in a, a truck, pickup truck
[1:16:16] or anything, like, you have to give way because the, the road
[1:16:21] is just not wide. Um, I, I get that
[1:16:25] there's been no accidents that it's, it's, it's low volume, but
[1:16:29] also adding in 45 houses approximately
[1:16:33] doubles the number of houses on the road and doubles the traffic
[1:16:37] that's, that's on the road. So, you know, whether that's
[1:16:42] safe or not, I'll leave it up to the board to, to decide. Um,
[1:16:46] but yeah, those are, those are kind of my, my general, um,
[1:16:51] concerns and just like, like for the board to, to consider those,
[1:16:56] uh, with regards to whether or not attorney lane, I mean,
[1:17:00] I think that, I think a taper on both sides is, would be probably ideal.
[1:17:04] I don't know how an actual left hand turn lane would even look in, in that
[1:17:08] spot in know, a full turn lane, but I think that the taper would
[1:17:12] probably be the best deal, um, just given that
[1:17:16] when you're going, you know, in opposing directions, you're, you got two
[1:17:20] cars heading at 110 miles an hour at each other. Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Um,
[1:17:25] yeah. So yeah, that's, that, that's kind of my, my
[1:17:29] general, um, concern. There's, there's also a, a large tract
[1:17:34] of land that's directly across the street from there. So who knows if that
[1:17:38] could potentially be developed later on as well. Um, so
[1:17:42] yeah. Those, those are my concerns for the board. Thank you. Mm-hmm. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.
[1:17:48] would anyone else care to speak?
[1:17:54] I will close the public comment period for the case. Um,
[1:18:00] yeah, I, I share his concern. I know there are other tracks in this,
[1:18:05] in that area that have been considered for development and, uh,
[1:18:09] and I believe there are tracks being considered right now for
[1:18:13] additional development. I feel like the road,
[1:18:18] if we grant waivers here, how, you know, how do we then eventually
[1:18:22] enforce our ordinance on turn lanes in the future?
[1:18:27] um, I, I really am
[1:18:31] inclined to not, uh,
[1:18:35] waive our, our ordinance for this one. But,
[1:18:39] so a taper is better than nothing. A taper is better than nothing. Yes. And
[1:18:43] it's not as good as a full turn lane. Right. And I, I understand and the county wants
[1:18:48] to enforce the turn lane. Yes. Uh, and I, I feel like the developers
[1:18:53] are the only way we're gonna be, we can't get vdot to widen the road. The only, I
[1:18:57] think the only thing we can do is, is expect the, the developers to
[1:19:02] add, add safety to the road. So I guess the only, the
[1:19:06] one thing I think about mm-hmm is that even
[1:19:10] with the development, it's still under capacity. Um, indeed. Right now,
[1:19:14] just because this one's approved doesn't mean the next one has to be
[1:19:18] without a turn lane and proper, but it sets a precedent.
[1:19:23] it does set a precedent. That's what I'm concerned about. Potentially,
[1:19:27] not if the capacity has changed, but just my thoughts.
[1:19:32] okay. Well, and I think a lot of that is if or when another
[1:19:36] development, um, you know, this was approved back in
[1:19:40] 2007. I mean, we're talking about a completely different, almost 20 years
[1:19:44] long time. Yeah. Um, but at the end of courthouse road, a poorhouse road, if
[1:19:48] you make a a, a head south there, there was serenity trails
[1:19:52] was considered right there near, and that, that would've been traffic onto this
[1:19:56] road as well. Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . So there are, there's a, there's a move
[1:20:01] to develop this area is my point. Mm-hmm . I,
[1:20:05] I, I also share road concerns. I, I love, I love turn lanes.
[1:20:09] we were actually, um, we, um,
[1:20:13] for the river road, uh, development that, uh, our gentleman mm-hmm
[1:20:17] . Um, referenced, we actually said, no, we do wanna a turn lane. They're safe. That's, that's, that's
[1:20:22] a safe way of going. Um,
[1:20:26] but I, we also can't be in charge of putting in a center lane and and
[1:20:30] lowering the speed limit that's, that's not in our wheelhouse. Yeah. We can't do that either.
[1:20:34] so I, I, it's a difficult situation. I, I acknowledge that
[1:20:40] and I share that it's, it's not the one development, it's the four developments and
[1:20:44] mm-hmm . You can't back up on number four when things suddenly are a problem and yeah.
[1:20:48] yeah. Have the other, uh, entrances improved? Mm-hmm
[1:20:53] . I've kind of observed that on hocket. It's, uh,
[1:20:57] it's grown into, you know, quite a nice road in some spots. Mm-hmm . In some
[1:21:01] spots and the same thing, fairground road, same thing, and nice spots, the safest places
[1:21:05] on fairground road or is where there's a turn, where there's a development. Yeah. Oh,
[1:21:09] and our board voted to change that recently. Mm-hmm .
[1:21:15] I think we should enforce that.
[1:21:19] and, alright, so
[1:21:24] any other discussion? Would anyone like to make a motion?
[1:21:29] um, sorry, is this a double
[1:21:33] negative situation? ? Not if we
[1:21:37] deny it, we're just denying the waiver,
[1:21:42] the request for a waiver. So there I, I'll, I'll make
[1:21:46] the motion based on the information in the staff report and from the public hearing, I move that
[1:21:50] the commission recommend denial of the proper amendment. R 0 2 0 2 5 0 0 0 0 7
[1:21:56] application by s barbie, cox ii on the grounds
[1:22:00] that it is not in keeping with the public necessity and convenience,
[1:22:04] general welfare and good zoning practices. I second.
[1:22:11] all right. Mr. Dean. Aye. Mr. Mclaughlin?
[1:22:15] aye. Ms. Kowalski aye. Mr. Patak
[1:22:19] aye. Mr. Kimberly aye.
[1:22:24] the motion to recommend denial passes on a five oh vote. This case is
[1:22:28] tentatively scheduled to be heard by the board of supervisors on march 3rd, 2026.
[1:22:34] it moves forward with a recommendation of denial from the planning commission.
[1:22:39] okay. We have one more case before we
[1:22:43] get started because we're gonna be here for a while. Um, we are gonna
[1:22:47] take a five minute recess, get up, stretch your legs,
[1:22:52] use the restroom if need be, and please, uh, come back in five. Thank you.
[1:22:57] I think that was the right thing to do. Yes, but we have to, um, someone has to be there to
[1:23:01] let us back in, but I'll go.
[1:23:26] no, I think we had to do
[1:28:40] good.
[1:28:44] how you hey, put your hands on. Don't spell
[1:28:53] on one second. Get a little, pick me up here at eight o'clock
[1:28:58] at night.
[1:29:04] okay.
[1:29:25] I get grumpy after nine o'clock. Anybody?
[1:29:37] right? Got like 12 people,
[1:29:52] ladies and gentlemen, we'll be starting back up in one minute please.
[1:29:57] oh, so there's more than one. Yeah.
[1:30:03] here we go. That was,
[1:31:20] there we go. I'm on. Doesn't sound like it. You are on,
[1:31:35] um, our final case, um,
[1:31:39] is going to begin here shortly if everyone can have a seat.
[1:31:44] um, okay. Your turn.
[1:31:48] our final public hearing item this evening is in district one cu 20 25 12
[1:31:54] application by virginia sports park and training center ed gland requesting
[1:31:58] a conditional use permit, cup for s***t shooting range or course
[1:32:03] and other similar ranges or courses on an approximately 85 acre
[1:32:07] portion of 372.967 acres on walton
[1:32:11] road, approximately 0.4 miles north of three chop road
[1:32:16] on tax map number 6 1 9 a and a portion of tax map
[1:32:20] number 6 1 0 7 and 6 1 0 57 t.
[1:32:24] the properties are zoned agricultural general a one and the cup is
[1:32:28] required by county zoning ordinance section 15 1 0 2. The comprehensive plan
[1:32:32] designates this area as rural enhancement area.
[1:32:38] thank you ms. Parker. Good evening, madam chairwoman and members of the commission
[1:32:43] for the record. My name is ben ellis. I am a planner with the county.
[1:32:49] for you is an application by virginia sports park and training center at glin,
[1:32:54] also known as vsp for a condition use permit for s***t shooting range
[1:32:58] or course and similar ranges or courses. The property is located on approximately
[1:33:02] 85 acres on walton road in district one.
[1:33:07] the map on the left shows the general vicinity of the property within the county.
[1:33:12] the map on the right shows the property outlined in red and the property as well
[1:33:16] as the surrounding properties exhibit a rural character
[1:33:20] proposed use is found on the western portion of the property in this
[1:33:24] general vicinity. Again, the proposed use is found
[1:33:29] in the western portion of the property of the outline parcels.
[1:33:34] the location of the proposed use is zoned a one agricultural
[1:33:38] general, as is most of the larger parcel in much of the surrounding area.
[1:33:43] located in pink are b one business general zoning districts and located
[1:33:47] in purple are industrial zoning districts. These industrial zoning
[1:33:51] districts correspond to the midpoint industrial park. The dark green
[1:33:55] are rr rural residential zoning districts.
[1:34:00] the comprehensive plan designates the area of the proposed use, which again is
[1:34:04] the western portion of the property. Um, as rural enhancement
[1:34:09] area go, the commercial, industrial and county
[1:34:13] state institutional parcels collectively comprise the haydenville
[1:34:18] crossroads, which is one of the county's rural crossroads. Rural crossroads
[1:34:22] provide necessary goods and services to the surrounding community, but are not meant to accommodate
[1:34:26] significant new growth as encouraged in other villages. To clarify,
[1:34:31] the proposed use lies outside of this area.
[1:34:38] the property is currently owned by lux stone corporation, a portion of which is being leased
[1:34:42] to the applicant, virginia sports park and training center. The area of the proposed use is
[1:34:46] lovely, is roughly outlined in the picture.
[1:34:51] the property is on the gland county louisa line, which
[1:34:55] is approximately right along here.
[1:35:01] lock stone owns the north portion of the property in louisa, which is approximately 250
[1:35:06] acres in size. It is not part of this application.
[1:35:10] located right next to the property is also interstate 64.
[1:35:15] located right here, there
[1:35:19] is a cell tower permitted under cu 19 99 3
[1:35:24] located on the larger of the three parcels just out of frame and therefore
[1:35:28] not in the area of the proposed use. Otherwise, the property
[1:35:32] is vacant. The property appears to have been logged in the recent
[1:35:36] past. A logging road can generally be seen here.
[1:35:46] located on the property is deep creek, which flows into the south ana river, which is a tributary
[1:35:50] of the york river. The red highlight area is the fema
[1:35:54] 100 year flood hazard area. Limited structures are permitted in
[1:35:58] this area. I don't see any red on my screen.
[1:36:03] it is very faint. Um, thank you. Yes,
[1:36:10] as indicated by the us fish and wildlife service, as well as the by the applicant,
[1:36:14] there may be wetlands on the property largely around the branch of
[1:36:18] this creek.
[1:36:24] in 1997, lux stone was approved for a quarry on the main parcel of the
[1:36:28] property. The extraction area would be located on the other side of deep creek from
[1:36:32] the proposed use. The sole permitted access point for the quarry is
[1:36:36] old for fredericksburg road. One of the over overburdened
[1:36:40] placement locations would be located where the applicant's proposed use would be.
[1:36:45] lux stone indicated that they have no current plans to begin operations on
[1:36:49] the site. Staff would like to especially point out that lux stone is
[1:36:53] permitted to blast on the property from the hours of 9:30 am to 3:30 pm
[1:36:58] monday through friday. Lux stone does not have a quarry permit
[1:37:03] for their property in louisa county.
[1:37:07] staff would also like to point out that as an approved use, lux stone could submit
[1:37:11] plans to the county at any time. These plans, these plan reviews would
[1:37:15] be administrative, meaning that as long as lux stone shows compliance with the county's
[1:37:19] laws, the county would be obligated to approve the plans.
[1:37:27] I'm so sorry. Um,
[1:37:32] this is a, a site plan that was provided by lux stone, um, associated with
[1:37:36] their poor permit.
[1:37:56] all right, ben, while you're there. Uh, so the red line that I see, that's the county b
[1:38:00] border, the county line before it was delineated,
[1:38:04] um, uh, with louis, we, um, a couple years ago,
[1:38:08] uh, delineated, uh, more precisely the county line between louisa and guch line.
[1:38:13] okay. That's what I mean. Yeah, it's the, that's the gland, louisa county line and
[1:38:17] the colored areas to the south of that are all, uh,
[1:38:21] the gland mining activities that have been approved. Yes, sir. Thank
[1:38:25] you.
[1:38:32] the applicant's proposing a sporting clays course, which will also have s***t shooting
[1:38:36] five stand and trap shooting. In addition to the shooting sports, the
[1:38:40] applicant is proposing indoor and outdoor archery, including 3d archery.
[1:38:46] there would also be a clubhouse and maintenance and accessory buildings, a rendering
[1:38:50] of the clubhouse. What, uh, is shown on the right, uh, this
[1:38:54] rendering, uh, is conceptual. It may or may not look
[1:38:58] like this in the future.
[1:39:04] s***t shooting is typically made up of eight different shooting positions oriented in the same direction.
[1:39:09] in an arc where the targets are thrown from the high house on the left
[1:39:14] and a low house on the right
[1:39:19] targets can be shot as singles or as pairs in a predetermined order.
[1:39:26] five stand consists of five lined up stations in which the sh
[1:39:31] which have targets thrown, placed, which have target throwers placed
[1:39:35] randomly out in front of the shooters.
[1:39:42] trap shooting consists of a trap house in the middle of the field from where the
[1:39:46] targets are launched. Can I ask a quick question? Yes, sir. So
[1:39:51] as you've depicted it here, this shooting is from ground level. Is that,
[1:39:55] is that accurate or are the yes, some shooters sometimes elevated.
[1:40:00] um, for the uses I have shown you so far,
[1:40:04] yes. They're typically at ground level. Thank you.
[1:40:11] stations for multiple shooters are found in an arc behind the trap house. W trap
[1:40:15] adds variation to the launch angle and direction to increase difficulty.
[1:40:22] the bulk of the property would comprise of a sporting clays course.
[1:40:26] unlike the, unlike other shotgun sports, sporting clays are not thrown from
[1:40:31] standardized positions. This is meant to mimic the spontaneity of animals in the
[1:40:35] wild. It is usually comprised of multiple stations, each
[1:40:39] throwing at a different angle and direction that take advantage
[1:40:43] of the natural features of the land. As such, it can be likened
[1:40:47] to a golf course. And, uh, mr. Kimberly to follow on your question,
[1:40:51] um, thank you. From personal experience, you, and as you can see in the illustration, I do see, I do
[1:40:55] see them here. They can be elevated. Yes.
[1:41:04] before you is page one of the applicant's conceptual plan, the general area of
[1:41:08] the sporting clay course and other shotgun stations is found here.
[1:41:14] can I ask another question? I'm sorry to interrupt you, but, uh, go ahead. Uh, the
[1:41:18] boundary shown here on the western part is different than
[1:41:22] what was shown in the, some of the previous, uh, charts.
[1:41:27] the, it, it shows a, a necking down in a, in a, in a,
[1:41:31] in a curve back up to, to the north,
[1:41:36] which is the true, um, boundary of their lease area.
[1:41:40] is this it or is what? It was several charts back.
[1:41:45] um, if you're referencing the area shown where
[1:41:49] the, I had the fema fema of 100 year foot hazard area. That's approximation by
[1:41:53] staff just to demonstrate the, um, hydrological features of
[1:41:57] the property. So this is, uh, the, with the, this
[1:42:01] is what the applicant has submitted, um, to demonstrate where their
[1:42:06] use will be occurring. Okay, thanks.
[1:42:15] the area for the clubhouse archery and parking is found in this corner.
[1:42:20] walton road is right here. The applicant is
[1:42:24] showing five stand s***t and trap shooting right here
[1:42:30] along the north and south edges of the property are the sporting clay stations
[1:42:35] here and here
[1:42:39] and those are the elevated. They could be. They could be. Okay.
[1:42:50] the stripe coloring shows the potential range of up to 100 yards.
[1:42:56] they would be accessed by an internal access road shown along here.
[1:43:07] vegetative buffers are shown along the edge of the property boundaries. That's the
[1:43:11] green along the edge,
[1:43:17] along the northern property line shown in the hatch pattern are proposed berms
[1:43:23] located here, located here, and located here.
[1:43:29] there are only shown on the northern property line where, where there is
[1:43:33] limited existing vegetation. There would also be gaps in the berms to allow
[1:43:38] for drainage. Uh, currently proposed here and here.
[1:43:45] the light green in the middle of the property is the engineer's preliminary analysis of wetlands.
[1:43:56] this page of the concept plan shows the first phase of the entrance area,
[1:44:01] uh, shown are the vegetative buffers, uh,
[1:44:05] a gravel parking lot, well area, a septic
[1:44:09] drain field, storm water basin, um, access
[1:44:13] road, as well as, uh, a temporary
[1:44:17] temporary trailer and temporary toilets.
[1:44:23] this page shows what the area would look like fully developed. Uh, we have
[1:44:27] a more developed parking area. Uh, the vegetative buffers are remaining.
[1:44:32] storm water basin remains. The main building clubhouse
[1:44:36] area would be there. Indoor archery, outdoor archery, I
[1:44:40] believe this is a maintenance building.
[1:44:50] the applicant has requested permission to operate unrestricted from 8:00 am to
[1:44:54] dusk seven days a week. The a staff has proposed
[1:44:58] limiting the discharging of firearms between the hours of 9:00 am to
[1:45:02] sunset monday through saturday. Staff propose these changes
[1:45:06] for a few reasons. First sunset is a defined specific period of
[1:45:10] the day. Dusk is a period of time. Additionally, in
[1:45:15] response to community concerns about noise, staff has proposed limiting shooting
[1:45:19] entirely on sunday. The applicant indicates that they expect 20
[1:45:23] to 25 guests on a given weekday,
[1:45:27] 40 to 70 guests on a weekend, and 85 to 125
[1:45:32] guests for events. The applicant's also
[1:45:36] indicate that they will eventually be three to four full-time employees
[1:45:40] on the property in addition to several part-time employees.
[1:45:48] as part of business operations, the applicant will also host tournaments and events related
[1:45:52] to the shooting course. The applicant has asked for no restrictions for tournaments
[1:45:56] and events. Staff has proposed a limitation of 12 tournaments per year.
[1:46:01] events could include fundraising, corporate, or educational events.
[1:46:09] the image on the right was produced by staff to illustrate, illustrate what a 300 yard
[1:46:13] shot fall zone would be at each proposed station. Documents from these
[1:46:18] national ski shooting association and the boy scouts of america require a 300
[1:46:22] yard shot fall zone. As a part of course, design for safety,
[1:46:26] this is to ensure that the shot has enough room to safely land without injuring
[1:46:30] any persons or property. Alright, just to be clear,
[1:46:35] can you back up, please? It looks to me, do I understand this correctly, that
[1:46:39] there are two, uh, well, certainly one that has overlap, um,
[1:46:44] and the one next to it almost,
[1:46:48] do you, do you see what I'm talking about? Um, can you point to them please? Potentially
[1:46:52] that one right there. Well, the next one over to the left, it has, it
[1:46:56] looks like it is under the 300 yard,
[1:47:01] um, arc of, of
[1:47:06] one of the other shooting stations. I'm guessing that's one of the, uh, stationary
[1:47:11] stations. Uh, yes. Staff. And, and the, uh, the one to
[1:47:15] the, just to the east of that is also very close to the arc
[1:47:19] of, I believe the other stationary shooting position.
[1:47:24] uh, is that, do I read that correctly? Yes. Okay. Uh,
[1:47:28] this was generated by staff using cad software, I believe, um, based
[1:47:32] on the conceptual plan submitted by the applicant on the right. Okay, thank
[1:47:36] you. Um, it is to the best of staff's ability. Alright.
[1:47:51] the site of the shooting course is located largely to the west of deep creek with
[1:47:56] the side stream running through the middle of the 85 acres, forming a quasi
[1:48:00] basin. It is along these side streams where there are
[1:48:04] is the greatest potential for wetlands. The stations would be along,
[1:48:08] would be along the edge of the property, along higher elevation and fire towards the center of
[1:48:12] the property. Shotgun ammunition. The shot is often made of lead.
[1:48:17] lead can be harmful to humans and other animals and cause negative health effects.
[1:48:21] lead is naturally occurring and it may move from the soil to
[1:48:25] groundwater depending on the type of lead compound and the characteristics of the soil.
[1:48:31] the ammunition produced, which is not made of lead. Excuse me. There is ammunition
[1:48:36] produced, which is not made of lead. This is often used for waterfowl hunting as lead
[1:48:40] has been banned from the use in waterfowl hunting nationwide since
[1:48:44] 1991 due to concerns about lead entering the ecosystem
[1:48:48] and food chain. Alternate shot types include
[1:48:52] steel, bismuth, tin and tungsten, as well as others, including combinations
[1:48:57] of different metals. The applicant states that they will develop and adhere to an environmental
[1:49:01] stewardship plan or esp and esp is a long-term management
[1:49:06] plan to conserve natural resources. Staff
[1:49:10] proposed a condition requiring esp be submitted before plan of development
[1:49:14] approval.
[1:49:19] noises among the greatest impacts of this proposal. As stated, the applicant is
[1:49:23] proposing earth and berms on the northern property line and 50 feet vegetative
[1:49:27] buffers around the property as a mitigation effort. I will discuss noise
[1:49:32] further in a later slide.
[1:49:36] lighting has also been a concern among the community. The county's zoning code
[1:49:40] regulates all outdoor lighting for commercial developments. All commercial outdoor
[1:49:44] lighting in the county is required to be dark sky compliant. All outdoor
[1:49:49] lighting for the proposal would be subject to these zoning code provisions.
[1:49:55] internal access roads will at a minimum need to be constructed to
[1:49:59] provide access to golf carts or other four vehicle all terrain vehicles
[1:50:05] in order to provide public safety to in response, um, in
[1:50:09] order to provide public safety to respond in case of an emergency. This
[1:50:13] would be typical for this type of development as many sporting clay courses operate with golf
[1:50:18] carts or other cle similar vehicles.
[1:50:38] the applicant held a community meeting on october 30th in this room, approximately
[1:50:43] 170 citizens attended. The applicant explained the proposal
[1:50:48] and discussion included traffic improvements on walton road, operating
[1:50:53] hours, location on the property, lighting impact on property
[1:50:57] values, sound and noise, impact of lead safety, and
[1:51:01] the notification of red residence. Comment
[1:51:05] cards indicate 12 people in support nine were neutral and 12 were
[1:51:09] in opposition at that meeting. An undetermined number of others verbally
[1:51:14] expressed either opposition or support at the meeting.
[1:51:20] in response to outstanding community concerns, the applicant held a second community
[1:51:24] meeting on december 9th at 50 61 broad street
[1:51:28] road attendee. There are approximately 54 citizens in
[1:51:32] attendance. The applicant explained their proposal and discussed
[1:51:36] noise reduction strategies, impact of lead light pollution,
[1:51:40] traffic concerns, and property values.
[1:51:47] questions and comment from the public include included traffic, the organization's
[1:51:51] 5 0 1 c3 status, the availability, availability of the
[1:51:55] facility to school aged youth operating hours, especially in regard
[1:52:00] to neighbors working night shifts, noise and sound,
[1:52:04] the add of the application submittal, public availability
[1:52:09] of the documents, noise studies, alternative sites,
[1:52:13] a decommissioning plan, coordination with louisa county,
[1:52:17] gland county noise ordinance, litter on the roadway, the selling of
[1:52:21] concessions impact on, uh, businesses, direction
[1:52:26] of traffic, proximity to neighbors, comparisons between other shooting
[1:52:30] sites and the proposed site, the applicant's commitment to noise
[1:52:34] testing and the number of tournaments most
[1:52:38] citizens express concern with the proposal.
[1:52:49] the county's 2035 comprehensive plan establishes a framework for growth and development.
[1:52:55] the property is located in one of the county's rural enhancement areas.
[1:52:59] rural enhancement areas include most of the county not already included in a designated growth
[1:53:04] area or major village. Rural enhancement areas exhibit a rural character
[1:53:08] with low density residential agricultural forest, or other uses which
[1:53:12] are not planned for public or central utilities. Residential
[1:53:16] uses should include a significant amount of open space, limit the amount
[1:53:20] of grading in native plant removal, and create minimal
[1:53:25] visual and other impacts the areas of the county play.
[1:53:29] these areas of the county play a significant role in the rural character of the
[1:53:33] community and should be protected from urban sprawl.
[1:53:40] staff has to determined that this, that this use could be appropriate
[1:53:44] for the rural enhancement areas. This, these proposed use
[1:53:48] would be in compliance with the comprehensive plan
[1:53:52] staff states, sorry. However, staff does not have enough information to
[1:53:57] fully determine whether the proposed use sufficiently mitigates its impacts on
[1:54:01] the neighboring properties.
[1:54:06] it should be noted that the 2035 conference of plan includes many
[1:54:10] policies used as strategies for implementation. Two of these are found below
[1:54:17] policy to protect residential areas from incompatible uses and
[1:54:21] a policy to ensure compatibility with neighboring uses involving
[1:54:25] noise screening and lighting.
[1:54:43] at this time, a number of outstanding concerns remain. I will address
[1:54:47] these individually on the falling slides.
[1:54:53] the public has expressed concern with lead discharge on the site. The
[1:54:57] proposed use entails lead shot, which could affect wetlands and floodplain on the
[1:55:01] property and impact water quality of runoff leaving the property as
[1:55:06] well as filtering down to the aqui fire. Staff is unable to
[1:55:10] comment on the appropriate mitigation matters as the applicant has not provided supplement
[1:55:14] information or a finalized environmental stewardship plan for review.
[1:55:19] staff county staff also lacks the technical capacity to determine the
[1:55:24] efficacy of the lead mitigation practices.
[1:55:32] the applicant is proposing hours of operation up to seven days a week. Staff has
[1:55:36] proposed more limited hours within the conditions to help mitigate potential impacts of
[1:55:41] near continuous operations on neighboring properties. At this
[1:55:45] time, the applicant has not agreed to these limits. The applicant has
[1:55:49] specifically ob objected to not being able to shoot on sundays as they believe
[1:55:53] it'll be detrimental to their business operations. Staff is open to
[1:55:57] alternative hours of operation for the gun range, but we do not think that
[1:56:01] seven days a week is appropriate. In
[1:56:06] response, the applicant has indicated that they could close the course to the public on mondays.
[1:56:10] staff does not consider this to be any different than to being open to the public
[1:56:16] staff
[1:56:22] at at the time that that staff had finalized our staff report. The
[1:56:26] applicant had not submitted a noise impact study. The
[1:56:30] impact of nuisance noise on nearby residential properties has been
[1:56:34] a primary concern raised at community meetings. Staff
[1:56:38] was provided with a sound study yesterday at noon. Having received
[1:56:43] this sound study with such short notice, staff is not able to assess the potential impacts
[1:56:47] of noise on neighboring properties. Additionally,
[1:56:51] on june 12th, oh, sorry, july, I am so sorry. On january 12th,
[1:56:57] the applicant did perform an onsite demonstration. In attendance were
[1:57:01] supervisors, lyle boers, spoon, hower, and christie, as well as commissioners
[1:57:05] kimberly and dean.
[1:57:11] some community members have had questions regarding the goland county noise ordinance.
[1:57:15] I would like to remind the planning commission that the goland county noise ordinance does
[1:57:19] not apply to commercial or business activity and does not apply to
[1:57:24] firearms. Any regulation of the sound or noise from
[1:57:28] this application must be done as part of the conditions if approved.
[1:57:35] this slide shows page two of the concept plan. The yellow circle shows a,
[1:57:39] within the yellow circle show, there is a temporary trailer and portable
[1:57:43] toilets which are non-compliant with the county code.
[1:57:52] the applicant's in the applicant's initial lease with lux stone was for
[1:57:56] only 75 acres of the property. However, the concept plan submitted showed
[1:58:00] 85 acres. As such, staff had concerns about the planning commission
[1:58:04] and the board of supervisors acting on an application in which the applicant
[1:58:08] may not have had the proper legal authority. The county
[1:58:12] received a revised lease agreement in an amended application yesterday. Unfortunately,
[1:58:17] the revised boundaries of the lease shown on the screen to the right does
[1:58:22] not appear to comprise the whole of the proposed shooting facility.
[1:58:26] the apparent discrepancy is shown in the dashed red
[1:58:30] outline. However, all improvements on the conceptual
[1:58:34] plan can be built on the leased premises.
[1:58:39] as such, this concern remains outstanding.
[1:58:46] the applicant is proposing to hold tournaments and special events on the property.
[1:58:51] although specific information regarding the frequency scale and other activities
[1:58:55] has not been provided. Staff has proposed a condition to limit the number of tournaments
[1:58:59] to 12 per year. Given the incomplete information.
[1:59:06] staff has proposed 19 conditions for this use, I will read them in
[1:59:10] a moment.
[1:59:25] number one, use a s***t shooting range including a sporting clays course or
[1:59:29] other similar ranges or courses including but not limited to indoor
[1:59:33] and outdoor archery and uses such as concessions in the sale of ammunition may
[1:59:37] be operated on the property. This is cup activity
[1:59:42] subject to these conditions. Number two, required approvals.
[1:59:46] the cup activity is not permitted to begun begin until a plan
[1:59:50] of development pod is approved. The applicant has installed
[1:59:54] all pod improvements and the pod improvements have been approved by the county and
[1:59:59] the applicant has obtained any other approvals that may be required by
[2:00:03] any other departments such as a building inspection, certificate of occupancy, or
[2:00:07] a health department approval, as well as any state and federal permits
[2:00:13] phasing the applicant must provide a phasing plan at the time of plan
[2:00:17] of development. The cup activity may be designed and built
[2:00:22] in phases, provided that the first phase includes the installation of a
[2:00:26] permanent structure and an approved well and septic system for the permitt
[2:00:30] structure. The first phase must also include the required burns and buffers conditions. 13 and
[2:00:34] 14. Each phase must comply with all federal, state, and
[2:00:38] local statutes, ordinances, and regulations.
[2:00:44] number four, concept plan. The areas and improvements for cup
[2:00:49] activity shall generally conform to the concept plan attached as exhibit a prepared by
[2:00:53] hewitt solutions entitled haydenville shooting facility and dated november 24th, 2025.
[2:01:02] staff does have a comment about this condition. The concept plan shows
[2:01:07] uses that are not permitted as permit structures, portable toilets and temporary trailers.
[2:01:11] however, it is necessary to condition the concept plan with this use because it
[2:01:15] is the only means by which to restrict the use to the 85 acres. As
[2:01:19] shown on the plan, a revised plan should be submitted that meets code
[2:01:23] requirements and shows the boundaries within the leasing area with buck stone.
[2:01:31] number five shot fall zone. Each shooting station shall have a shot fall zone
[2:01:35] of least 300 yards down range extended in all shooting. That
[2:01:39] will be located entirely within the cup activity area. No
[2:01:43] discharge or shot is allowed to land outside of the cup activity area.
[2:01:47] number six, firearms only shotguns may be discharged on the
[2:01:51] property. Shotguns must be 12 gauge or smaller and board diameter.
[2:01:58] number seven, shotgun ammunition. No shot size larger
[2:02:02] than seven and a half is allowed. All ammunition sold on site must be
[2:02:06] used on site number eight hours of operation. Firearms
[2:02:10] may only be discharged between 9:00 am and sunset monday through saturday.
[2:02:15] no firearms may be discharged on sundays.
[2:02:22] number nine, parking a minimum of 17 parking spaces or more if
[2:02:26] required by the pod serving. The cup activity area shall be provided and
[2:02:30] maintained. If the applicant is
[2:02:35] pursuing a phase development and plans to host tournaments and events pursuant to
[2:02:39] condition 15 b, then an overflow parking area is required
[2:02:43] and must be de designated on the pod. Parking
[2:02:47] on walton road is prohibited at the request of the zoning administrator. No parking signs
[2:02:52] must be installed along the road in accordance with the virginia department transportation regulations.
[2:02:59] number 10, parking a paving parking waiver pursuant
[2:03:03] to zoning ordinance section 15 dash 316. A waiver is granted
[2:03:08] to the requirement that non handicapped parking areas must be paved.
[2:03:12] non handicapped parking areas must be, may be must
[2:03:17] be gravel areas for handicap parking must be paved.
[2:03:25] number 11, internal access road. Internal access to
[2:03:29] parking areas and facilities for cup activity will be as generally shown
[2:03:34] in the in exhibit a and must be constructed and maintained in a manner
[2:03:38] satisfactory to both gland fire rescue and the go and the county.
[2:03:42] the development, sorry, the department of community development
[2:03:48] number 12. Environment stewardship plan. An environmental stewardship
[2:03:52] plan must be submitted to the department of planning and zoning before approval of
[2:03:56] a plan of development. The environmental stewardship plan must describe how the
[2:04:00] applicant will implement best management practices on site.
[2:04:06] number 13, berms a series of vegetated earth
[2:04:10] and berms. A minimum of eight feet and height must be provided and maintained in the areas
[2:04:14] as shown on the concept plan. The minimum of eight feet of height is
[2:04:19] measured to the top of the burn earth and burn prior to the planting above the
[2:04:23] location of the shooting stations. The burn must be planted with multi
[2:04:27] rows of staggered evergreen trees planted six feet on center.
[2:04:31] if any of the trees referred to in this condition should die, be cut or be destroyed, it
[2:04:35] must be replaced in 120 days.
[2:04:40] number 14, buffers. A vegetative buffer of a minimum of
[2:04:44] 50 feet must be preserved around the perimeter as shown on
[2:04:48] the concept plan where no vegetation is present. 50 feet
[2:04:52] wide, multi rows of evergreen trees must be planted and maintained.
[2:04:56] these evergreen trees must be a minimum of six feet and height at the time of planting
[2:05:00] and must be planted six feet on center. If any
[2:05:05] of these trees referred in this condition should die, be destroyed, or be cut, it must
[2:05:09] be replaced in 120 days. Number
[2:05:13] 15, tournaments, fundraising, corporate and other events.
[2:05:17] 15 a tournaments and events as part of the cup activity are
[2:05:21] permitted on the property. 15 b, the number of tournaments
[2:05:25] may not exceed more than 12 in a calendar year.
[2:05:31] 15 c for any event or tournament where
[2:05:35] the number of attendees exceed the maximum capacity of the site as determined
[2:05:39] during pod review, the organizer must provide an event plan a minimum
[2:05:43] of 60 days before the event date to the zoning administrator.
[2:05:48] furthermore, to ensure that the plan meets local state regulations, that plan must
[2:05:52] include at minimum a site plan, details on fire
[2:05:56] protection and equipment, what type of security will be present for onsite
[2:06:00] for the event, a list of temporary structures that will be used for the event,
[2:06:05] what type of food services will be used, and where the temporary bathrooms and
[2:06:09] hand washing stations will be located, where parking will be located
[2:06:13] and how traffic will be managed. The zoning administrator
[2:06:17] will route the plan to fire rescue sheriff building inspections,
[2:06:22] virginia department of health, and the virginia department of transportation for approval. An event must
[2:06:26] be canceled if not approved by all departments at least two weeks in advance
[2:06:30] of the date of the event.
[2:06:36] 15 d alternatively to 15 c, the property may
[2:06:40] be de designed for the cup activity for a minimum daily
[2:06:45] capacity of a minimum of 125 people. An improved
[2:06:49] pod design for this capacity with all necessary improvements constructed
[2:06:54] is required before any tournament or event is held. The maximum
[2:07:00] capacity will be the lesser of the approved stic capacity or parking
[2:07:04] capacity, but this condition does not limit any other governmental agent, department
[2:07:08] or agency from requiring an occupancy limitation.
[2:07:14] 15 ea special event permit is required for any organized gathering
[2:07:18] of 250 more or people at a given time for the
[2:07:23] purposes of listening to or participating in entertainment or 250
[2:07:27] more people when alcohol beverages will be permitted, possessed, or
[2:07:32] consumed. Uh, this comes directly from the gland county code
[2:07:39] number 16 annual notice annually, a schedule of
[2:07:43] cup activity events including dates, times, and estimated attendance shall
[2:07:47] be submitted to the zoning administrator and the schedule shall be
[2:07:51] revised and updated monthly as events are added, removed or revised. Number
[2:07:56] 17, no trespassing in order to notify individuals of the property's boundaries.
[2:08:00] no trespassing signs must be posted, posted, and maintained along
[2:08:05] all boundaries with adjacent properties. These signs shall warn the in
[2:08:09] the individual of an active shooting range.
[2:08:14] number 18, compliance. All development and use of the property shall comply
[2:08:18] with all federal, state and local statutes, ordinances, and regulations.
[2:08:22] and number 19 is the county's standard transfer and lease language.
[2:08:31] at this time, I'll be happy to answer any questions from the commission.
[2:08:37] uh, ben, um, you had a, uh,
[2:08:41] uh, some limitations on alcohol use when there's a a
[2:08:46] an event, is there normally alcohol gonna be permitted
[2:08:50] on, on a nor in normal activities in this?
[2:08:55] um, I believe the applicant would like to be able to serve alcohol as a
[2:08:59] part of, uh, corporate or, uh, events of the property.
[2:09:03] um, alcohol
[2:09:07] shooting under the influence would not be permitted.
[2:09:16] how can that be?
[2:09:20] ultimately, that would be up to the applicant and the property owner to regulate, um, the county,
[2:09:24] you know, would enforce any violations that they were made aware of.
[2:09:32] okay. Uh,
[2:09:36] condition 10, if you would like to back up a little bit. I just have a quick question about
[2:09:40] that one. It was about a parking, uh, uh, per surface conditions.
[2:09:45] uh, you said that non handicapped parking
[2:09:49] must be gravel or is that just a may be gravel. Um,
[2:09:54] get there areas for handicapped parking
[2:09:59] must be paved. If I misspoke, that's no non handicapped and, and it's
[2:10:03] condition 10? Yes. Uh, must be gravel. I believe that's, uh, to
[2:10:07] prevent, uh, just dirt parking and then something that turns into mud, but it could be,
[2:10:11] could be paved as well. Um, the applicant has asked for the parking waiver.
[2:10:16] um, the paving is the normal requirement for parking in the county, but the county does
[2:10:20] pursuant to section 15. All right. So it must be at least gravel,
[2:10:24] I guess is yes. What that means. All right.
[2:10:30] um,
[2:10:35] ben, just a question on seven. All ammunition sold on site must
[2:10:39] be used on site. What's the thought behind that? Uh, that it does not turn into
[2:10:43] a retail store. Okay. Thank you. But they will
[2:10:47] permit shot, uh, uh, ammunition not sold on
[2:10:51] site to be used on site, um, correct
[2:10:55] that, that, that's correct. Right. You can bring your own ammunition in provided that is no
[2:10:59] larger than seven and a half. And is that the only restriction that's gonna be placed on the ammunition?
[2:11:04] that is the only restriction on ammunition currently proposed.
[2:11:10] all right. Uh, going to condition number three, please.
[2:11:22] uh, non-compliant structures.
[2:11:27] does this go back to one of the, uh, concerns about
[2:11:31] the portable toilets and, um, the, the,
[2:11:35] uh, trailer or whatever they were proposing of having,
[2:11:43] um, I'm sorry, could you repeat that question? Yeah. Um, the non-compliant
[2:11:47] structures, that was one of your concerns yes. Of staff concerns?
[2:11:52] yes. Um, is that, um,
[2:11:56] because you're saying you want a installation of a permanent structure and
[2:12:00] those are not considered, even the trailer is not considered a permanent structure. Correct.
[2:12:04] um, county code requires that
[2:12:09] structures that are used for occupancy are permit structures. Um,
[2:12:13] a temporary trailer could be used, but only in regard, uh,
[2:12:17] to ongoing construction. Uh, that is not what the applicant
[2:12:22] has shown on page two of the concept plan, which is, uh,
[2:12:26] the purpose of staff's comment here.
[2:12:31] okay. Um,
[2:12:36] uh, one more question. The access roads, um, to get to
[2:12:40] these stands, um, correct me if I'm wrong, but
[2:12:45] are those wide enough for a golf cart or
[2:12:49] wide enough in case there's an accident that fire and rescue can get back there?
[2:12:54] it'll be up, uh, exact specifications would be determined
[2:12:58] at plaintiff development review, which would include the fire and rescue department as well as
[2:13:02] planning and zoning. Okay. But as it's proposed,
[2:13:07] is it little trails with golf
[2:13:11] cart access only or is it wide enough that if there is something
[2:13:16] that has happened that fire and rescue could get back, or is that still unknown until
[2:13:20] plan of development? Um, the applicant has shown
[2:13:24] staff, uh, examples of other, uh, tra
[2:13:29] paths used in other operations, but I'll let the applicant speak more on that
[2:13:33] matter. Thank you.
[2:13:37] then there is, um, a difference in restrictions contemplated
[2:13:42] between tournaments and events, but no definition
[2:13:46] of either of those. What would be considered a tournament versus
[2:13:50] an event? Yes, that
[2:13:54] is a fair question. Um, certainly
[2:13:58] fundraising events, um, and corporate events. Uh, you know,
[2:14:03] and educational events would be to teach, uh, you know, uh, children
[2:14:07] how to shoot, but that might not be competitive shooting where a tournament would be competitive
[2:14:12] shooting. Um, this may be an opportunity to provide further clarification
[2:14:16] between tournaments and events. Yeah, most of the, uh, corporate
[2:14:20] team building retreats I've been to have been competition, so yes. That's why
[2:14:24] I ask, been in reference to condition
[2:14:28] 18.
[2:14:33] would that also constitute the, um, environmental stewardship
[2:14:38] and lead mitigation?
[2:14:44] um, the environmental
[2:14:48] stewardship plan is not a required,
[2:14:52] uh, beyond staff requiring it. Um,
[2:14:57] if you are, if you're
[2:15:01] asking if an environmental stewardship plan would be required by state or federal statutes and regulations,
[2:15:05] I'm not aware that it is. Um, if there are applicable
[2:15:10] d department of environmental quality laws and regulations, the applicant
[2:15:14] would be required to follow them. To my knowledge, an environmental stewardship plan
[2:15:18] is not one of those regulations or requirements. Okay.
[2:15:23] this sound study that was, um, provided yesterday, yes.
[2:15:27] um, how does staff, um, propose looking at that? Will they look at it
[2:15:31] just an internal or will we seek out outside, in all likelihood,
[2:15:36] we will have to seek, um, outside counsel or consultants.
[2:15:40] okay. So at the moment though, you have no way to
[2:15:46] evaluate that sound study. You have not had a chance to evaluate it
[2:15:50] yet? Staff has not had a chance to evaluate it yet. Um,
[2:15:54] and staff may not have the technical capacity to analysis analyze
[2:15:59] it. Okay.
[2:16:04] berms, um, yes. Eight foot above what
[2:16:08] , um, the location of the shooting station. Uh,
[2:16:13] so the top of the berm, I was, sorry, I was having a little trouble reading
[2:16:18] the language. Eight foot above
[2:16:23] the highest what, uh, nearby.
[2:16:28] anyway, that's, there's a lot of where the level of shooter is. That's
[2:16:32] what I'm, yeah. Where the gun or, you know, do, how far out do
[2:16:36] you go if there's a, anyway, this is,
[2:16:41] um, yes. The applicant's
[2:16:45] conceptual plan does include language, um, with, I
[2:16:49] believe it'd be within a thousand feet of the shooting station. Oh, within a thousand feet. Okay.
[2:16:54] so it has to be higher, eight feet higher than than
[2:16:58] a, the, a a any a shooting station within a thousand feet?
[2:17:03] um, uh, let me clarify. Let me double check that real quick.
[2:17:17] or I mean, I guess as it's written, you could interpret that as all sh it has to be, I
[2:17:21] mean, I realize this is, the terrain here is kind of like a bowl in there talking about berms on the
[2:17:25] north side. And so, sorry, I, I must correct that it is 100
[2:17:30] yards, which is not one thou 1000 feet.
[2:17:35] okay.
[2:17:39] alright. Thank you. On the berms again,
[2:17:44] has the applicant provided any validation that those berms would accomplish
[2:17:50] sound mitigation? Um, if they have, staff
[2:17:54] has not had time to review it. Okay. And I don't believe there's anything mentioned
[2:17:58] in the sound study for that. They just, uh, the sound study, I think just
[2:18:02] used existing terrain. Thank
[2:18:06] you. Mm-hmm . So, um, regarding
[2:18:10] the cup, you've got a line here that says that there's no
[2:18:15] cup approval without a total pod well, no cup
[2:18:19] activity, uh, ccp activity, that's, uh, a fancy way to say that they
[2:18:23] can't, uh, begin shooting until they have an approved pod in some form.
[2:18:28] okay. Is there any expiration date on this or
[2:18:32] any staff has not proposed an expiration date. Okay.
[2:18:38] and the thinking behind that staff
[2:18:42] does not know, uh, does not have a good idea of when the applicant may get
[2:18:46] up and running and, um, we
[2:18:50] would hate for them to come back in, say, five years and, um,
[2:18:55] do this process again without making significant pro uh,
[2:18:59] progress in their business operations. Um, that
[2:19:11] you say there's no quarry permitting, right? It's not permitted
[2:19:16] for cory activity right now. Uh, but if they were to request
[2:19:20] it, cory activity would have to be approved. Um,
[2:19:26] is that, what did I read that right? The quarry permit? Um, well,
[2:19:31] lux stone is the landlord of the property mm-hmm . And as such, they could
[2:19:35] presumably terminate the lease agreement with, um,
[2:19:39] the applicant here. Right. Um, their quarry permit remains valid.
[2:19:43] um, and if approved, this would also be valid and they would have
[2:19:47] a, you know, have the option of which ones they'd wanna pursue at, at right. When,
[2:19:52] you know, at either time. Um, if they did both
[2:19:56] at the same time, presumably that overburden area would, would
[2:20:00] be an issue. Um, I believe what you're
[2:20:04] asking is that there's an active quarry permit in gland county,
[2:20:08] not in louisa. I think , no, I, I guess what I was asking is if we disapprove
[2:20:13] this, what, and, and lux stone wants to
[2:20:17] do quarrying activity, um, is that better for the residents or is it better
[2:20:21] for the residents to lock up the property with this? Oh, I see. That's, that's kind of where I was headed
[2:20:25] with that question. Uh, I'm
[2:20:29] assuming that lux stone wouldn't be able, maybe they, maybe they can break
[2:20:33] the lease early, but, um,
[2:20:38] yeah. Um, I would like to add, uh, one thing, backtrack a little bit.
[2:20:42] um, I must apologize. We originally had a com or a condition
[2:20:46] that addressed alcohol and it appears to have been, uh, deleted
[2:20:50] in the number of revisions these conditions have, um, been, have
[2:20:54] gone through as such. Um, it does not appear that there would
[2:20:58] be restriction on alcohol, um, as far as the
[2:21:03] county's conditions would go. Um, so any,
[2:21:07] um hmm. Yeah, there's no current county, so that's a state,
[2:21:11] that's a state, probably a state regulated
[2:21:16] thing anyway. Right. That's what I would think is they would have to provide a, uh,
[2:21:20] a how an a bc license or something like that if they were gonna sell alcohol there.
[2:21:25] um, so it's probably not our point at all, our issue
[2:21:29] at all. Don't they have to anyway, from the size of it? Yeah, probably. So I would say
[2:21:33] it's not really our, um, for the sale of
[2:21:37] alcohol, you, I, I believe an a bc
[2:21:42] license would be required. I'm not sure what that, that's the, what the applicant is proposing. I
[2:21:46] think it would just, you know, after your corporate event of
[2:21:50] shooting on the range, you know, you have a couple beers, um, hopefully just
[2:21:54] to 'cause somebody, you know, people need to drive home, but mm-hmm . Um,
[2:22:01] but I can also let the applicant speak to that. Okay. Yeah, I'm, I'm just thinking this is not something
[2:22:05] we would regulate no. As a commission. So,
[2:22:16] hey, um, can you go back to the, um, the,
[2:22:20] the least area with the, uh, the red dotted lines that you had
[2:22:24] on, on one of your early slides? Could you, could you do that please?
[2:22:32] because it looks to me like you, you, the, the
[2:22:37] shot zone area, uh, uh, the shot fall area, if
[2:22:41] they don't have that red, uh, they're gonna, they're gonna have to
[2:22:45] redo, especially if you spread out to three thou, 300 yards
[2:22:49] as opposed to it's even gonna pick up this, uh, bottom one or two,
[2:22:53] uh, shooting positions here on the south side. Um,
[2:22:59] it looks to me like they extended the 10 acres out to the
[2:23:03] east rather than, uh, filling in that red corner
[2:23:07] area. So that looks like a problem to me. Okay.
[2:23:12] thank you. Mm-hmm .
[2:23:24] do we have any other questions for vince? Yeah, let me ask you, let me ask another quick one. Lighting
[2:23:28] must comply, dark sky must be dark sky compliant. Can you explain that a little bit?
[2:23:33] uh, yes. So generally, um, all light fixtures must, um,
[2:23:37] light is not allowed to emulate, uh, up, up must be shielded
[2:23:41] down. Uh, could probably go laterally, but, or down, but
[2:23:45] cannot, the light cannot be emitted upwards. All right. And they are,
[2:23:52] you're proposing that they, they stopped shooting at sunset, which is yes. 30
[2:23:56] minutes before, uh, civil twilight, I suppose. Yes. Uh,
[2:24:01] so it, I'm not sure what activities would be
[2:24:05] going on at night there anyway. Yeah. Yes. Okay. Okay.
[2:24:10] is the applicant proposing this to be locked gated? Um, once hours
[2:24:15] of operation are over, uh, I will have to defer that to the applicant,
[2:24:19] but there is no requirement for fencing all the way around. Simply no trespassing
[2:24:23] signs is what I staff has not proposed a fencing requirement. Okay.
[2:24:34] any other questions? Mm. Okay. Thank you. Thanks, ben. Thank
[2:24:38] you. Thank you. Thanks, ben. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, would the applicant like to speak
[2:25:11] forward backwards? Do you wanna point against the, um, pointer button?
[2:25:17] thank you. Appreciate it. Good evening, adam chair and the,
[2:25:21] uh, members of the, uh, planning, planning commission. Thank you for, uh, staying
[2:25:25] late to hear this, uh, the case tonight. First of all, I'd
[2:25:29] just like to set the record straight very quickly, um, on a couple of, um,
[2:25:34] uh, issues. Excuse me real quick. Could you provide your name, please? Uh, my apologies. My name is nan
[2:25:38] hamedi. I am the, uh, director of, uh, virginia sports park.
[2:25:42] um, virginia sports park, uh, referred to as vsp
[2:25:46] is not a gun range. We are a sporting clay and archery sports park. There's
[2:25:50] a vast difference. There will be no rifles or pistols allowed on this
[2:25:55] sports park, just for clarity, right. We are not developers.
[2:26:00] vsp consists of philanthropists who have no financial gain from this project.
[2:26:04] we only wish to create a wonderful opportunity for our youth that generations
[2:26:08] after generations will enjoy it. After the meetings
[2:26:12] and also discussing with staff, uh, and, and, and the community, uh, certain,
[2:26:17] uh, concerns were raised. I want to provide a quick, uh, uh, summary
[2:26:21] of those environmental, um, vsp is required
[2:26:25] to have an environmental stewardship plan, which addresses monitoring, lead
[2:26:29] mitigation and remediation. Can I ask you real quickly,
[2:26:34] who requires that? That's part of our lease with lux stone. Okay.
[2:26:38] thank you. Thank you. Um, and which will be
[2:26:42] part of our ongoing activity. This the, the esp. Okay.
[2:26:46] um, vsp shall follow all state and federal regulations. Dealing
[2:26:50] with lead traffic was the other issue. A county
[2:26:55] mandated traffic impact analysis was conducted by an independent engineering
[2:26:59] firm. The county has accepted the findings of dimension tia
[2:27:05] property values. This is a very subjective matter and ride,
[2:27:09] and the rides in the market trends claim is without merit and
[2:27:13] beyond the control of all present. Here, noise
[2:27:18] seems to be the biggest concern in this particular case. We
[2:27:22] have conducted three variations of tests. All of them concluded the same.
[2:27:26] very low levels of sound levels are within lower range and very acceptable.
[2:27:30] a professional sound in this, in sound study indicates such
[2:27:35] a live demonstration was performed on monday, january 12th, 2026.
[2:27:40] a total of 150 rounds were discharged in 60 minutes.
[2:27:44] in the audience were four county supervisors, two planning commissioners, county administrator,
[2:27:49] local residents, a supervisor from louisa county and numerous
[2:27:53] staff members. County was advised to use a decibel measuring device to
[2:27:57] evaluate noise at neighbor's homes inside and out. We
[2:28:01] hope that those in presence were able to witness a witness how
[2:28:05] minimal the sound presence actually was, and they utilized a sound measuring
[2:28:10] device. Our professional sound study reveals the same
[2:28:14] at this time, I will ask acoustic expert to address
[2:28:18] the panel about the findings of that test. Mr. Paul thomas.
[2:28:25] good. Good evening everyone. My name's paul thomas. I'm
[2:28:29] with applied laboratory services. We are a third party independent
[2:28:33] firm out of norfolk, virginia. Um, we conducted
[2:28:38] a noise study at the facility on january 8th.
[2:28:43] it included five, uh, noise dosimeters that
[2:28:47] were set up on the property at various distances. Those
[2:28:52] distances, um, ranged from, um,
[2:28:57] 50 feet behind the active shooters, um,
[2:29:01] all the way out to 285 to
[2:29:05] 740 feet. Sampling was done in a triangular
[2:29:10] pattern so that we could try and capture, um,
[2:29:14] a true analysis of the noise being exhibited.
[2:29:19] um, those results, um,
[2:29:24] basically we conducted sampling for a two hour period
[2:29:28] while active shooting was going on at clay targets, um,
[2:29:33] approximately 150 rounds were shot during that period.
[2:29:37] uh, the reason why we did the two hours of sampling
[2:29:42] was, uh, to compare to a normal,
[2:29:46] uh, event that would occur there. Um, normally those events would
[2:29:50] occur in a two hour period, was our understanding. Um, during
[2:29:54] this period, uh, we recorded the, uh, measurements.
[2:29:59] um, decibel readings for an eight hour period
[2:30:04] ranged from, um, 22.1 decibels,
[2:30:09] uh, to 52.4 decibels.
[2:30:13] the, uh, highest reading was collected 50
[2:30:17] feet behind the shooters. Um, the,
[2:30:22] the furthest, uh, decimeter was set 740
[2:30:27] feet at the property line near the nearest resident.
[2:30:31] um, the highest level on that for an eight hour average
[2:30:35] was 36.8 decibels. The
[2:30:40] osha standards associated with noise is set
[2:30:44] at 85 decibels. Anything exceeding 85 decibels
[2:30:48] under the regulation requires hearing protection
[2:30:52] and noise mitigation. Um, based on our testing
[2:30:56] results, we feel that, uh,
[2:31:00] there is not, um,
[2:31:05] any noise that is going to exceed those regulations. There are no
[2:31:09] federal standards on regulations. They are,
[2:31:13] uh, the, the federal regulat, the federal hearing conservation
[2:31:17] programs basically put it back on the states. Each state has
[2:31:21] a various, uh, noise regulations. Those
[2:31:26] noise ordinances were put on individual counties and cities,
[2:31:30] which after reviewing the, the goochland, uh, county,
[2:31:34] um, noise ordinance is my understanding that,
[2:31:39] uh, shooting was excluded from that. So
[2:31:43] we really didn't have anything to compare to for the gland county. So
[2:31:47] we refer everything to the osha standards. That's why we say 85 decibels
[2:31:52] so well below hearing protection necessary, or even
[2:31:56] where it should be heard, um, at distance at the surrounding residence.
[2:32:01] um, I have recommended, if this is approved, that
[2:32:05] additional noise sampling be done just to compile
[2:32:09] historical data for the site in case it becomes, uh,
[2:32:13] a concern. Um,
[2:32:17] that's all I have. I have a question for you, sir. Yes, sir. Is there, um, through your
[2:32:21] years of studies and research, have you noticed any difference between
[2:32:26] wintertime sampling versus summer and outdoor? Well,
[2:32:30] it's a great question. Um, and just a little bit about myself. So
[2:32:34] I've been doing this a little over 33 years, industrial hygiene exposure monitoring,
[2:32:39] um, not only fire range ranges, indoor outdoor,
[2:32:44] but a number of other hazards as well. So in our
[2:32:48] experience, because vegetation in the spring and summer months,
[2:32:52] that will help reduce the noise levels as well. So
[2:32:57] when we did our testing, it was, it was worst case scenario because the
[2:33:01] leaves are down, noise can travel a little bit further.
[2:33:05] um, but we didn't find anything exceeding
[2:33:10] those levels. When you say it lowers, are we talking
[2:33:14] two decibels, five decibels, what? During the summertime?
[2:33:18] I mean, is it a, a minuscule amount or is it a I I
[2:33:22] I believe it's gonna be a minuscule amount, you know, without doing the actual
[2:33:26] sampling on the site, because each site is different based on the topography
[2:33:31] of the land, the surrounding vegetation, um,
[2:33:35] you know, it, it likely would decrease, but I don't have any data to provide
[2:33:39] today on that. Okay, thank you. Mm-hmm . I wanna clarify one thing, and, and it
[2:33:43] might have been confusing to the audience, is why I want to
[2:33:47] bring this up. I looked at where your, uh, sound
[2:33:51] monitoring stations were, and you've referred to one being 50 feet behind
[2:33:56] the shooter, right? Correct. When you say
[2:34:00] behind, I I, when I look at the, uh, the,
[2:34:04] the maps that you provided, it looks as if it's in front of the shooter
[2:34:09] as if it's in the direction that the shooting is happening.
[2:34:14] so I, I guess my point is were they pointed not
[2:34:18] necessarily directly at the sound measuring equipment, but in that general direction,
[2:34:22] or were you actually measuring behind the back of the shooter?
[2:34:27] correct. There was one behind the shooter as well. So the
[2:34:31] purpose of that was to make sure we were triangulating the
[2:34:35] sampling so that we had a base to compare to then I okay. Then
[2:34:40] I, I don't understand the, uh, you've got the shooting position
[2:34:44] marked on your, on one of your maps, and, and it looks as though this,
[2:34:49] that one station is on the other side of the shooter from
[2:34:53] all of the other, uh, four stations that you had. So,
[2:34:57] uh, and I think you were measuring a peak levels there of 127
[2:35:02] db or something like that. So, um, the, the peak, which is the highest
[2:35:06] I understand recorded, yes. Yeah. So, um, so it does, it, it, I don't know. To me that sounded like it
[2:35:10] was, um, not necessarily directly
[2:35:15] in front of the barrel, but in, in that general direction, the,
[2:35:19] the, the sample behind them. Well, what you, what you were referring to is behind
[2:35:23] though that, I dunno, to me, if I was shooting in your direction
[2:35:27] yeah, right. It was a sample that, okay. Alright. Behind then,
[2:35:31] then the map that I'm looking at of your, uh, of your
[2:35:36] sensor locations, uh, this map right here, yes. You're
[2:35:40] showing one to the right of the shooting position.
[2:35:45] sample one is directly behind them.
[2:35:50] it, it, it might be obscured by the, the little, uh, plot.
[2:35:57] the, the circle in the middle there was their firing location. Right.
[2:36:01] and they were firing, uh, directly towards, uh,
[2:36:05] sample areas, two, three, and four. Oh, they were actually shooting back towards
[2:36:10] walton road. Yes, sir. No,
[2:36:14] no, no, no, no, no, no. So they
[2:36:18] were shooting towards 64. If you look at the second map that's
[2:36:22] provided, which, which is a yes, I,
[2:36:27] I see the second, second map. So they were shooting in the direction of
[2:36:31] interstate 64. 64 and yes.
[2:36:37] all right.
[2:36:44] okay. All right. In your,
[2:36:48] uh, expertise, if you put, we're all shooting on the ground, everything
[2:36:53] was done on the ground, if you put someone up 10 feet, does that change
[2:36:57] the noise level? Very minimal. Very minimal, yes, ma'am.
[2:37:03] okay. Mr. Thomas, I appreciate
[2:37:07] that. Lacking other standards, you're using osha as a standard. Um,
[2:37:12] and I'm familiar with time weighted analysis. We use that when we talk about hazardous
[2:37:16] materials, similar concepts, um, and that's important when
[2:37:20] you talk about osha, but let's talk about it in this situation.
[2:37:25] um, how is time weighted analysis different than the instantaneous
[2:37:29] peaks that, uh, that you experienced in how might residents
[2:37:33] experience that noise? Not over eight hours, but at the moment. Right, so
[2:37:38] one thing to understand when doing noise analysis, you have your
[2:37:42] l peak and you have your l your l max. So your
[2:37:46] l peak is basically your acoustical, uh, signal.
[2:37:52] um, the highest measurement, right, the highest measurement of less than
[2:37:56] in a micro a hundred microseconds, if you will. The, your, your max
[2:38:01] is, is basically the measurement period, um, for that noise
[2:38:05] event. So, um, the time weighted average yes.
[2:38:09] is very important. And, and mind you, there were
[2:38:13] about 7,000 sampling points for each
[2:38:17] monitor during this two hour period. Um, each monitor
[2:38:22] was collecting that data. It's calculated based on the time weighted average.
[2:38:26] so it does take into consideration your l peak and your,
[2:38:31] uh, max sound at each time.
[2:38:36] okay. I understand that. Mm-hmm . But how is that experienced
[2:38:41] perceived when you have those high peak perceived noise levels? Well, it's an average, right? We all know average
[2:38:46] is a horrible statistical measurement for things. Sure. Well, I,
[2:38:50] I, I mean, you have a car go by that doesn't have an exhaust on
[2:38:54] it. Is it loud? Sure. The, the, the difference
[2:38:58] is it, when it comes to noise and noise conservation,
[2:39:03] it's over that eight period of time. There is no other regulatory
[2:39:07] agency that has information on that when it comes
[2:39:11] to hearing conservation. So yes, you're gonna have
[2:39:16] higher and lower with the buffer zone that they have there with the vegetation.
[2:39:21] the, the data that we have that dropped off even on
[2:39:25] that l peak and l max was significant at the
[2:39:29] property lines. So, um,
[2:39:33] you know that, that, yes, you're gonna have
[2:39:37] higher points, you're gonna have multiple people shooting.
[2:39:42] um, typically my experience with, with clay, shooting, with, with the monitoring
[2:39:46] that we've conducted, um, people take turns. You don't
[2:39:50] have a hundred people shooting at, you know, one clay target.
[2:39:54] it's a process that works just like on a golf course where you take
[2:39:58] your turn to have your putt. Um, so
[2:40:03] you know, you, you will have some elevated, and that's why I suggested
[2:40:08] additional testing down the road if they do become operational,
[2:40:12] so that that data can be compiled and pro, you know, provided
[2:40:16] as well. Alright, and another question, I don't really understand
[2:40:20] how sound works, so I have a lot of questions. If you fire
[2:40:24] one shotgun and it has x decibels and then you fire
[2:40:29] three shotguns at the exact time, is that three x
[2:40:33] the number of decibels or is it the same level or something
[2:40:37] in between? I mean, one would think yes, you, you would have a, a slider
[2:40:41] level of decibel readings. However, I don't
[2:40:45] think, well, I know through my experience that that is not a way clay
[2:40:50] operational works. Um, you're not gonna have three people shooting
[2:40:55] at one target. Um, I understand. I just didn't know how sound work. If you
[2:40:59] have a 50 db sound and an 80 db sound, is
[2:41:03] that 130 dbs or is that 80 dbs in the fifties mask? No. And that, that, that's
[2:41:07] kind of the purpose for the eight hour time weighted average for, for doing that
[2:41:11] is to figure out what that trend is. I mean,
[2:41:15] ultimately if you have three people shooting simultaneously,
[2:41:21] you would think that the noise levels would be very similar. They're not going to
[2:41:25] increase significantly. Okay. You know, from what I've seen. Thank you.
[2:41:29] yes, sir. Okay.
[2:41:34] any other questions? I don't
[2:41:38] know how much time we have left because there's a lot of questions. If I may just take about three,
[2:41:42] four minutes and go through the, uh, powerpoint presentation really quick. Yeah, please. Sure.
[2:41:46] yes. Thank you. I appreciate that. Take up some of your time. Thank you very much. So, uh,
[2:41:50] just, uh, this is an overview. Most of you already know what this is, but just should go over, uh, some
[2:41:54] of the, uh, information on virginia sport, uh, sports park.
[2:41:58] uh, we wanna talk about who we are. Uh, we are a 5 0 1 c3
[2:42:02] nonprofit charitable organization committed to building character, teaching safety,
[2:42:07] and strengthening families through outdoor sporting activities. We are not a
[2:42:11] shooting range. We're community focused sporting facility designed with gland's,
[2:42:15] values at heart, youth development, structured programs for character and
[2:42:19] skill building, safety education, big on safety education, professional
[2:42:24] instructors and and responsible outdoor activities, community engagement,
[2:42:28] bringing families and generations together, charitable commitment
[2:42:32] operated as a nonprofit, reinvesting into programs, families
[2:42:37] and charitable events, serving our communities for a nonprofit organization,
[2:42:41] as we said, building a facility that serves the heart of our community. From boy scouts
[2:42:45] to schools to four h to multi-generational families seeking quality time
[2:42:50] youth organizations. Our partners include boy scouts, girl scouts, young
[2:42:54] life, and four h, um, to provide structure, outdoor
[2:42:59] education that builds leadership and responsibility, educational
[2:43:03] programs for board and community organizations focused on safety, teamwork and outdoor
[2:43:07] skills and family bonding, uh, creating meaningful connections between
[2:43:12] parents, grandparents and youth through shared outdoor experiences.
[2:43:16] what's our mission? Our mission is building character through outdoor activities. Our core values include
[2:43:21] building, build character in young people, teach comprehensive safety practices,
[2:43:25] promote personal responsibility, strength and family bonds. Foster
[2:43:30] community connections instill and promote respect for nature and
[2:43:34] responsible conservation. Through structured outdoor activities,
[2:43:38] we create opportunities for growth, learning, and meaningful relationships.
[2:43:42] some of the benefits to gland county youth and richmond programs, providing
[2:43:47] safe supervised activities that keep young people engaged, active
[2:43:52] and learning valuable life skills in a supportive environment. Economic
[2:43:56] contribution, creating local jobs, attracting visitors to the area,
[2:44:00] and supporting goland businesses and charities through events and tournaments. Our
[2:44:04] capital investment is, is expected to exceed between two to
[2:44:09] $2.5 million in this conservation leadership
[2:44:13] teaching environmental stewardship, habitat preservation, and responsible
[2:44:17] outdoor practices to the next generation community gathering space,
[2:44:22] offering a venue for fundraisers, school outings, corporate team building, and
[2:44:26] multi-generational family activities, addressing
[2:44:30] your concerns. A lot of these we have, uh, addressed and we will address after comment,
[2:44:34] the citizens' comment period as well. Understanding
[2:44:38] the concerns, uh, noise impact, uh, there, the worry
[2:44:43] of shooting sports will create excessive disruptive noise affecting the quality of life
[2:44:47] and property values. Uh, as you've already heard from our, uh, uh,
[2:44:51] sound, um, expert, that noise is not an issue
[2:44:55] in this case. The reality is sporting clays five stands and wobble trap, they operate
[2:44:59] intermittently during limited daytime hours,
[2:45:03] not continuously, not late at night, and the activity is seasonal and weather
[2:45:08] dependent. Um, an independent third party professional sound study, which
[2:45:12] you just heard, basically reveal the same sound mitigation strategy.
[2:45:17] vsp will erect natural terrain buffers, uh, uh, excuse
[2:45:21] me, berms, uh, with newly planted pines will utilize natural
[2:45:25] terrain buffers throughout the property. Engineered berms, evergreen plantings,
[2:45:30] uh, new tree lines, strategic course layout pointing away from
[2:45:34] the residences and target loads that minimize sound
[2:45:39] safety is our foundation. Professional instruction, mandatory safety
[2:45:43] training, supervised activities and strict protocols
[2:45:47] ensure every participant follows best practices. Safety isn't a
[2:45:52] priority, is our culture through thoughtful traffic management. Located
[2:45:56] at haysville exit of I 64 with easy access,
[2:46:00] minimizing impact on area roadways, tia conducted showed
[2:46:04] no significant increase to current traffic levels, and it has a controlled
[2:46:09] limited use property valuation we talked
[2:46:13] about said this is based on market trend. This is outside of anyone's
[2:46:17] control. Uh, we are gonna be champions of conservation, habitat preservation
[2:46:22] and environmental stewardship education. This
[2:46:26] is a positive for gland, this is for the youth and generations
[2:46:30] to come. Family connections, youth opportunities, and community pride.
[2:46:35] thank you for your time on that. And a couple of days ago
[2:46:39] we had forwarded, uh, some, uh, responses to the draft conditions
[2:46:43] to, uh, to all of you. And our responses
[2:46:47] are basically we're dealing with outstanding issues, draft conditions to the cup
[2:46:52] and fire marshals review comments, those are in there after the comment period.
[2:46:56] if you have questions on there, we are happy to address those with you as well.
[2:47:01] thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.
[2:47:07] all right.
[2:47:13] all right. We are now going to, uh, open the citizen comment
[2:47:18] period. Um, do you want start that?
[2:47:23] take a break. I'm good. I'm good. Are you? We should start it. Yeah,
[2:47:28] let's start. All right, let's go. All right. We welcome the number of residents who are
[2:47:32] engaged on this issue, and we want to hear from everyone who wants to speak at the public
[2:47:36] hearing. Because of the number of people here tonight, we have allowed people to sign up
[2:47:40] for public comment electronically before the meeting. This list is
[2:47:44] being used to help us better manage public comment and move efficiently through this process.
[2:47:49] during the public comment period, we are going to be calling up speakers in groups. We
[2:47:53] ask that you take a seat in the front reserved rows.
[2:47:58] this will allow everyone to, uh, still be able to see the screen and
[2:48:02] the presentation. Um, also, per the fire marshal, please remain seated
[2:48:06] and keep the aisles clear until your name is called. Uh, for those
[2:48:10] of you who wish to speak but have not signed up, we will hear from you after the
[2:48:14] people who have signed up have spoken, everyone will have the opportunity to share their
[2:48:18] thoughts. Uh, for those of you yielding your time to someone
[2:48:23] else, you must come up to the podium with the person you're yielding the time to
[2:48:27] state your name and address for the record, and then you may return to your seat.
[2:48:31] um, it is great to have so many people here and engaged on this issue, and we
[2:48:35] know you want to support speakers with whom you agree, but we want to ensure
[2:48:40] that the public is managed efficiently so that we can hear from as many people
[2:48:44] as possible. Therefore, please, please
[2:48:49] refrain from clapping, yelling, making snide comments, things that
[2:48:53] are going to keep us here longer. Um, we do want to hear from
[2:48:58] everyone, um, but we don't want to make it where we have to do, um,
[2:49:02] a recess or we have to take a break. Um, a lot of us do have to go to work tomorrow.
[2:49:07] and, um, we wanna get through this, um, as respectfully as
[2:49:11] possible. We are all here in the community together, and we do wanna hear from everyone.
[2:49:15] uh, for those of you, oh, nevermind, uh, please direct your remarks
[2:49:19] to the planning commission, um, chair. Uh,
[2:49:23] and once your name is called, please come forward and state your name and address. You will
[2:49:27] then have three minutes to speak unless you, uh, have been seated to your time.
[2:49:32] um, again, when you first start to speak, the green light will come on, and
[2:49:36] then the yellow will indicate that you have one minute left, and then when it is red, that
[2:49:40] means your time is up. And please do respect that as we do have many, um,
[2:49:45] citizens to speak tonight. Um, but again, if you are seating your time, you will have more time,
[2:49:49] but just please be aware of the, um, the lights that do go on.
[2:49:53] um, we can now call our first, um, public comment,
[2:49:58] right? If karen grief, laura corwin,
[2:50:02] sandra smith, karen george, and david sisson could please
[2:50:06] come to the podium. We'll have your cedars, um, go first
[2:50:11] and see their time. And then if we could just stage in the front row,
[2:50:15] um, lindsey gibson, julie duff, ryan ferrell,
[2:50:20] dan richardson, and sarah lindeman. Thank you.
[2:50:26] good evening, uh, panel and madam chair,
[2:50:30] my name is karen grief, 2 0 8 duke street. I'm going to
[2:50:34] seed my time to mr. Size.
[2:50:40] my name is laura corwin. I live at 2 0 8 duke street.
[2:50:45] I'm seating my time to david sisson,
[2:50:51] sandra smith, 2 0 8 duke street. Seating time to david
[2:50:55] sisson. Karen george,
[2:50:59] 1 7 5 bir street. I'm seating my time to david c
[2:51:04] thanks, mom. .
[2:51:41] I know. Sorry about that. Um,
[2:51:45] there we are. So for this you have forward backward.
[2:51:51] okay. Thank you so much.
[2:51:55] hi. Good night. Good evening. Um, thank you again for the
[2:51:59] opportunity to speak tonight. Can you just state your name and address please? Yep. My name is david sisen. It
[2:52:03] was the next line, , sorry. I live at 50 20 6:00 am road. I would be
[2:52:08] directly impacted, uh, by vsps proposed range half a mile away.
[2:52:12] the vsp community impact and site suitability report we prepared was sent to the county last friday.
[2:52:17] the latest version is at no range on walton.com under community concerns
[2:52:22] and it will continue to be updated there. I wanna thank the commission,
[2:52:27] uh, for all the hard work they do, and like
[2:52:31] mr. Kimberly, I'd like to urge everyone here to engage in civil discourse,
[2:52:36] to be respectful of each other, even in deep disagreement, to be open-minded
[2:52:40] and seek mutual understanding, to be willing to compromise unless the health, safety
[2:52:44] and dignity of another person is at stake. This virginia code outlines the planning commission's,
[2:52:49] powers and duties to the end that residential areas be provided with healthy
[2:52:53] surroundings for family life and the agricultural and forestal land be preserved.
[2:52:58] these are at risk. If this permit is approved, it is my personal belief.
[2:53:02] and outdoor shotgun range can be good for a rural community in
[2:53:06] the right location. However, this location is wholly unsuitable.
[2:53:14] here are the facts. Lux stone site plan deliberately avoids deep creek
[2:53:18] and the wetlands, uh, this is cool here.
[2:53:26] uh, blasting is limited and scheduled, and there's a half mile buffer between
[2:53:30] the extraction area and the nearest how homes.
[2:53:34] so from here to the nearest homes here,
[2:53:40] whereas vs. P's slight plan overlaps both.
[2:53:48] oh, skipped. These next two slides are in the report. This
[2:53:52] slide shows that based on full shot file zones, shooters cannot avoid depositing
[2:53:56] shot into the wetlands. Wetlands are, uh,
[2:54:01] emphasized in the middle there.
[2:54:05] this slide depicts the government's current assessment of the wetlands and fema flood hazard areas.
[2:54:12] there is no configuration of shooting stations that eliminates the risk to those outside the
[2:54:16] property.
[2:54:21] the proposed, uh, shooting stations are in black.
[2:54:25] here's what the full shot fall zones negligent
[2:54:29] or accident. Dental discharges do happen, and when they do, they can result in catastrophic
[2:54:33] consequences. Redundant systems need to be in place to eliminate as
[2:54:37] much risk as possible. Here are the 360 degree shot fall zones. They
[2:54:42] overlap with adjacent properties and homes. Walton road and highway 64.
[2:54:47] do not accept that risk when you can 100% prevent it.
[2:54:51] a thousand foot setbacks ensure shot fall remains on the property.
[2:54:59] this table shows the number of homes surrounding the site alongside six other ranges in
[2:55:03] virginia. Vsp likes to use bull run as an example. However,
[2:55:07] within half a mile, the area of highest impact, it's not even close.
[2:55:11] one of these things is not like the others, but sometimes a pitcher is the only way
[2:55:15] to truly experience data. Vsp will always be on the left.
[2:55:19] one key takeaway is that 95% of the homes within one mile of any
[2:55:23] comparison range were built after the range was open, sometimes decades later.
[2:55:30] here's bull run in fairfax. 120 homes built after
[2:55:35] the range opened. Cavalier sporting
[2:55:39] clays in hanover, 65 homes built after the range was open.
[2:55:45] and again for flying rabbit in mount crawford. Uh, the homes
[2:55:50] are the yellow dots in case that wasn't clear. And again,
[2:55:54] for, uh, old, sorry. Yeah.
[2:55:58] and again, for, uh, old forge near east of richmond,
[2:56:04] only central virginia sporting clays had more than a few homes within a one mile,
[2:56:09] uh, within one mile built before the range opened. It serves in as, as one
[2:56:13] example of the maximum home density that should be considered for a new range.
[2:56:18] an even better example is, or apacs. In uchin county,
[2:56:23] orax was permitted to operate an outdoor range in 2013.
[2:56:27] that permit is an example of the minimum conditions that need to be imposed. The
[2:56:32] range was four acres on the backside of a 670 acre lot. It was at least
[2:56:36] 0.8 miles from any residence and one mile from any road. These implicit
[2:56:40] uchin county precedents must apply to vsp. Written setback conditions
[2:56:44] weren't necessary in that case because the range was well away from homes, roads,
[2:56:49] and property lines, and they were not allowed to move it. Any
[2:56:53] shooting range closer to homes or roads or with a higher home density than or apac should be denied.
[2:56:58] the contrast is even more impaired at half a mile. I'll move quickly to
[2:57:02] get to the bottom line. Here's bull run
[2:57:06] at half a mile, cavalier
[2:57:11] flying rabbit, old forge,
[2:57:16] central virginia sporting clays and or packs.
[2:57:21] here's all of those six together.
[2:57:26] here's virginia's, uh, sports park.
[2:57:31] the homes on these maps are like shotgun pellets hitting a neighborhood. While it only
[2:57:35] takes a couple of pellets to break a clay target, vsp would be the only range guaranteed to
[2:57:39] be absolutely lethal to the neighbors
[2:57:43] on the right are all six comp ranges combined.
[2:57:47] only 15 homes were built or already existed within half a mile
[2:57:51] of any of those ranges. In the combined 207 years of operation
[2:57:56] on walton road, there are already 35 preexisting homes within half a mile
[2:58:00] of e-s-e-s-p 120. Within a mile over 500
[2:58:04] in two miles. Only bull run in
[2:58:08] fairfax can rival that home density beyond half a mile. And if gluten
[2:58:13] reached that density level, we're no longer rural.
[2:58:17] there are 10 homes in a quarter mile. The three closest homes are 600
[2:58:21] or 700 feet away from the nearest shooting station. Full transparency,
[2:58:26] homes of range mirrors were not depicted, however, not even homes
[2:58:30] were as, uh, not even their homes were as little as 600 feet away from the nearest shooting station.
[2:58:35] when the half miles depicted for all the shooting stations, you can see the full extent of the
[2:58:39] impact.
[2:58:45] why does it matter? Shotgun
[2:58:49] noise travels long distances. Exposure can damage your hearing. This light can be
[2:58:53] found in the report, so I'm not gonna read it all in short, the closer you are to the source, the louder
[2:58:57] the noise and the less time you can be exposed before it damages your hearing. Under
[2:59:01] the right conditions, a shotgun can be heard from two miles away. That's 500 plus homes
[2:59:06] affected. This chart shows decibels,
[2:59:10] decibel levels, with example sources also in the report. Homes up to
[2:59:14] a mile away could be subject to noise between 85 and 105 decibels or
[2:59:18] more for simultaneous shots.
[2:59:23] according to the cdc, allowable exposure to noises above 94 decibels is counted in
[2:59:27] the minutes, not hours before hearing damage occurs. 10 homes within
[2:59:31] a quarter mile would experience 97 decibels or more. That's 30 minutes or less
[2:59:35] of allowable exposure. This is while outside their own home.
[2:59:42] hearing damage isn't the only adverse effect from noise of of this nature.
[2:59:47] the unpredictable shots can also cause stress response leading to other health concerns.
[2:59:52] vsp is incentivized to make the range as popular as possible. Vsp plans
[2:59:56] to be open more days per week and more hours per day than any of these public ranges.
[3:00:01] conservative estimates of average shots fired are 10,000 per day
[3:00:05] during the winter and 17,000 during the summer. That's 10,000
[3:00:10] shots a day all day, every day for the rest of our lives,
[3:00:15] or 10,000 cars without exhaust. The evidence shows that
[3:00:19] no one chooses to live within a half a mile of a gun range. If they can avoid it
[3:00:26] at a minimum, minimum, the following conditions must be opposed.
[3:00:30] an environmental stewardship plan for lead, which I'm glad is required. Noise limits
[3:00:35] measured at the property lines. A thousand foot setbacks for shooting stations from property lines
[3:00:39] and 1500 from roads shooting stations no closer than three quarters
[3:00:43] of a mile from a home. Fewer hours, hours per day, and fewer days per week.
[3:00:49] if the board of supervisor fails to, uh, supervisors fail to impose all of
[3:00:53] these conditions, that precedent means there could be a commercial gun range on any gland parcel
[3:00:57] as small as 85 acres and zoned a one a two. There
[3:01:01] are nearly 360 such parcels in gucci county. An unconditioned
[3:01:06] permit would act like a dinner bell to anyone looking for a sympathetic county to open
[3:01:10] a commercial outdoor sh shotgun range. Imagine a range
[3:01:14] near you operating from 8:00 am to sunset, 365
[3:01:18] days a year. Next time it could be you if you want it to
[3:01:22] be you. Contact vsp
[3:01:26] based on these facts. My hope is that vsp will recognize how unsuitable this site is
[3:01:31] withdraw their application and continue the search. I hope they use our feedback and
[3:01:35] our report to help them improve their engagement with their next potential neighbors.
[3:01:40] I wanna be, I wanna believe that vsp didn't fully comprehend and appreciate the negative impact
[3:01:44] both on the community and the environment. I wanna believe they were not willfully ignoring
[3:01:48] it. I hope they needed only to be shown these facts to come to the same conclusion
[3:01:52] that an outdoor shotgun range does not belong on walton road. Recall that I asked
[3:01:57] everyone to be willing to compromise unless the health, safety and dignity of another person is at
[3:02:01] stake. While the facts presented here prove that the health, safety
[3:02:06] and dignity of the walton road community is exactly what's at stake. If vsp has granted this
[3:02:10] permit, vsp should find another location that isn't guaranteed to be lethal
[3:02:14] to their neighbors. Thank you again for your time and consideration. I'll be here all night.
[3:02:18] happy to answer any questions. And
[3:02:23] is there any slide you wanna see again, .
[3:02:27] thank you. Thanks. Thank you.
[3:02:32] next speaker.
[3:02:41] my name's ryan ferrell, 28 20 sandy hook road. And I'm seating my
[3:02:45] time to sarah lindeman. My
[3:02:49] name is dan richardson, 2 8 7 jerry lane. I'm seating my time
[3:02:53] to sarah lindeman. Julie
[3:02:57] duff 4 9 7 8 winter lane and I'm seating my time to sarah lindeman.
[3:03:02] set you. Yeah, thank you.
[3:03:14] thank you. Appreciate it.
[3:03:20] we go done. You have backward
[3:03:24] and okay, great. Thank you so much. Mm-hmm
[3:03:28] alright, good evening. My name is sarah lindeman and I live at 2 8 7
[3:03:32] jerry lane. That is off of walton road. Um, I'm a resident
[3:03:36] of louisa county, but my property abuts the lux stone property, which is divided as you
[3:03:40] have seen along the louisa county gland county line. I have
[3:03:45] 13 years of professional experience in large scale wetland, environmental and land use
[3:03:49] permitting as a professional. I have submitted, received approval and managed compliance
[3:03:53] with numerous conditional use permits in virginia and other states.
[3:03:58] the zoning code of the county section 1560 provides standards to use as guidelines.
[3:04:02] as you have seen this evening, it states the establishment, maintenance, or operation
[3:04:06] of the conditional use will not be detrimental to or endanger the public health, safety,
[3:04:11] morals, comfort, or general welfare. I pause that there is not enough information
[3:04:15] in this application or in the concept plan to ensure meeting the standard is
[3:04:19] possible. And I will talk briefly about each criteria. I'm gonna try to move it a good clip, so I appreciate
[3:04:24] your patience. Uh, safety first up, the concept plan does not
[3:04:28] show any security measure measures or perimeter fencing. As we have discussed this evening.
[3:04:32] the staff report suggests adding a condition that no trespassing signs must be posted and
[3:04:37] maintained along all boundaries and warn of an active shooting range for an active shooting range
[3:04:41] with 14 stations that point towards occupied residences or an interstate highway.
[3:04:45] this is not acceptable. I urge the commission to require the applicant to prepare
[3:04:50] a safety plan, which includes appropriate perimeter security and details, all measures
[3:04:54] dedicated to safety for users and neighbors of the proposed range.
[3:04:58] at the initial public meeting, the applicant showed a video from youtube on where to find the safety on
[3:05:02] a shotgun. This is not an adequate substitution for a project-wide safety plan.
[3:05:07] the applicant has not provided any comprehensive information to neighbors on what measures
[3:05:11] they will put in place to keep our family safe from a public gun range adjacent to
[3:05:15] our properties. Sections 1565 and 1566
[3:05:20] relate to adequate access roads and ingress and egress with particular reference to vehicular
[3:05:24] and pedestrian safety and convenience, traffic flow and control and access in case of fire or
[3:05:28] other emergency while the applicant conducted a traffic impact analysis,
[3:05:32] it does not consider the full access route from I 64 and excludes two intersections
[3:05:37] through which 70% of the site traffic will travel. That is what is shown, uh, on
[3:05:41] the screen behind you. The route in purple is what matches what's shown from the traffic
[3:05:45] impact analysis conducted by vsp. What's shown in blue and yellow
[3:05:49] are my assessments of how to get from 64 to the site. What you'll notice
[3:05:53] here is that three chopped road connects to two 50 at the red circles.
[3:05:58] the impact analysis stated that 70% of the traffic would be leaving the site
[3:06:02] and turning left on the purple route. What happens after that
[3:06:06] purple route ends is not included. Uh, my understanding is that 70% of
[3:06:10] that traffic would then move on to access two 50 back to 64.
[3:06:15] you can see here that neither of those intersections were included in the analysis.
[3:06:19] uh, while vida was a part of that, I contend that this is not adequate and
[3:06:23] uh, is a misrepresentation of the route the traffic will take to site.
[3:06:27] this is a screenshot which you will also see from the plan that our neighborhood group
[3:06:32] has prepared. This is one of those intersections. This is where three chopped road
[3:06:36] meets, two 50 on the southern end. Um, and this
[3:06:40] is a small southern, this is a small gas station and a market. It's a dangerous intersection
[3:06:44] where many residents have already experienced, excuse me, near miss incidents and regularly
[3:06:49] witnessed dangerous driving behavior. Residents have identified this as a concern
[3:06:53] at every opportunity to speak publicly and it remains a significant cause of concern for many.
[3:06:57] I urge the commission to require a revised traffic impact analysis, which includes both
[3:07:01] of these locations and addresses the other deficiencies I have identified in my previous
[3:07:05] comments to staff via email. The study this applicant furnished was also conducted on
[3:07:10] saturday in the summer and did not account for weekday traffic during all proposed hours of operation
[3:07:14] school bus routes or traffic associated with special events or tournaments.
[3:07:19] morals, uh, there's a lot to be said here, but I would just like to point out that
[3:07:23] the staff report shows several maps which show home locations, but it does not include louisa
[3:07:27] county data. I recognize that I'm not one of your constituents, but I would also like to point
[3:07:31] out that there are a number of homes and residences that may be impacted by
[3:07:35] the proposed project for those of us in louisa county with no recourse to
[3:07:39] provide more formal comment or work with our county to address our concerns. I've
[3:07:43] reached out to louisa county and have never heard back from them
[3:07:47] public health. The concept plan does not include enough information to determine whether
[3:07:52] the project will have a negative impact on public health, either to immediate neighbors or those
[3:07:56] in the downstream watershed. Nearly all the proposed shooting stations, as you have seen,
[3:08:00] point directly into areas identified by a desktop gis analysis as wetlands.
[3:08:04] wetlands are typically larger than what is depicted in these desktop analysis. So it's
[3:08:08] impossible to determine the extent of any impacts to wetlands without a formal wetland
[3:08:13] delineation in issuance of a jurisdictional determination by the us army
[3:08:17] corps of engineers. Likewise, it's not possible to know the level of the water table
[3:08:21] and potential groundwater impacts without a more specific study. This
[3:08:25] is important because wetlands and acidic soils can cause accelerated leaching
[3:08:29] of lead into surface and groundwater potentially impacting downstream water quality.
[3:08:33] the epa issued a report in 2005 that includes best management practices for
[3:08:37] lead at outdoor shooting ranges. It was prepared with support from the nra and the national
[3:08:42] shooting sports foundation. It indicates that most human exposure to lead associated
[3:08:46] with shooting ranges is through lead contaminated soil. It demonstrates that lead shot
[3:08:50] shot particles or dissolved lead can be moved by stormwater runoff and dissolved
[3:08:54] lead can migrate through soils to groundwater. Based on my review of
[3:08:59] the usda web soil survey, most of the soils in the project site are acidic or sandy,
[3:09:03] which means that they are more permeable and more susceptible to lead, leaching
[3:09:07] and dissolving. The applicant, as we have seen, has not provided a lead mitigation
[3:09:11] plan or provided any substantive details regarding long-term lead management on site,
[3:09:16] nor have they proposed any best management practices in writing. Consistent with this epa
[3:09:20] report, I urge the commission to require the applicant to prepare a robust
[3:09:25] lead mitigation plan and to require them to incorporate the epas recommended
[3:09:29] bmps. I also urge the commission to put conditions in
[3:09:33] place similar to those in the ora pack cup, which you have heard about this evening, which required soil
[3:09:38] sampling and asurity bond to cover the cost of lead removal from the shortfall zone
[3:09:42] if the range ceases operations. Um, there's
[3:09:46] a lot about the noise study that you have heard today. I have some further concerns.
[3:09:50] um, I do not think this is a substitute for a thorough analysis conducted
[3:09:54] by properly independent third party professionals. Uh, I urge the
[3:09:58] planning commission to require the applicant to conduct a formal acoustic study following
[3:10:03] io 1 7 2 0 1 1 20 18, which is
[3:10:07] a study specific to noise from shooting ranges in residential neighborhoods.
[3:10:12] the iso stands for the international organization for standardization and it's a
[3:10:16] group of non-governmental experts, which regularly publish technical standards that are used across
[3:10:20] industries. In my industry, it is the gold standard for acoustic studies,
[3:10:25] comfort and general welfare. Uh, section 1562 of the code
[3:10:30] states that the conditional use will not be injurious to the use and enjoyment of other
[3:10:34] property in the immediate vicinity for purposes already permitted nor substantially
[3:10:38] diminish and impaired property values within the neighborhood. The applicant has not prepared a formal
[3:10:42] property values assessment other than what you have heard. So it is impossible to determine
[3:10:47] if the use meets this standard. It is difficult to imagine a scenario
[3:10:51] where living next to a public gun range, which operates from eight or nine in the morning until sunset,
[3:10:55] six or seven days a week, would increase the value of any of our homes
[3:11:00] at nearly all other public gun ranges in the commonwealth. The range was constructed first and homes
[3:11:04] were built after the range was established. That is not the case here.
[3:11:09] the applicant has stated that the property property will be used to host fundraising, corporate and
[3:11:13] other special events. As I understand it, this is not a buyright use of land zoned
[3:11:17] a one and it is an additional use case beyond the gun range. The
[3:11:22] property is within a designated rural enhancement area as you have, as you know, which is
[3:11:26] defined as low density residential ag forest or other uses which are not planned
[3:11:30] for public or central utilities. While the range may utilize a septic
[3:11:34] system, assuming they move past portable toilets, um, it is a
[3:11:38] facility that will be open to the public and it will not be utilized as a residential
[3:11:43] property for agricultural or for forest use. I contend
[3:11:47] that there is not enough information in this application that the proposed public gun range will
[3:11:51] not have a negative impact on existing residences in the immediate vicinity.
[3:11:56] the applicant has also not provided any information on alternative sites that were assessed during
[3:12:00] the purported years of development of this project. I urge the commission
[3:12:04] to require the applicant to conduct a formal alternatives analysis, which considers
[3:12:08] other sites of similar size and proximity to the interstate, which are further from
[3:12:13] residences. In summary, I believe the planning commission must defer voting
[3:12:17] on this application until the applicant can demonstrate that their proposed project does not violate
[3:12:21] the ordinances. The burden of proof must be on the applicant to prove
[3:12:25] that a public gun range immediately adjacent to family homes is not judgemental
[3:12:30] to the health, safety, morals, comfort, or general welfare of those who were
[3:12:34] here first. The proposed project does not meet the standard and the cep should not be
[3:12:38] approved. Thank you.
[3:12:44] if we could have mike liptak, joy haynes, josiah
[3:12:48] donaldson, and daniel dalton to the podium and then
[3:12:52] sitting in the first row. Amanda olson, sandra
[3:12:56] bartel, heidi blaine, joseph bartel, shelby
[3:13:01] gibson, douglas duff, and katrina dalton.
[3:13:19] okay. Ready? Yep. Mike liptak. 2,400
[3:13:24] cheney creek road and I'm gonna seed my time to dan dalton. Thank you.
[3:13:30] joy haynes. 24 18 morning view drive. Seating my time to daniel dalton,
[3:13:36] josiah donaldson, 180 horseshoe bend bumps virginia seating my time to
[3:13:41] former us marine corps machine gunner dan dalton .
[3:14:27] good evening, uh, madam chair and commissioners. My name is, uh, dan dalton. I live at,
[3:14:32] uh, 46 21 walton road with my wife and soon to be six children,
[3:14:36] roughly 500 yards from the boundary of vsp. Uh, first
[3:14:40] I wanna thank the county officials and staff who are out on walton road this monday during
[3:14:45] vsps, uh, uh, exp uh, shooting experience. It was, uh, great interacting with you, especially
[3:14:49] during the 35 minute pause in the middle of the demonstration. Um, I genuinely enjoyed the conversations
[3:14:53] we had. I was very thankful for it. Uh, just a little background on myself.
[3:14:57] am I familiar with firearms? Like many of you, I was introduced to firearms at an early age
[3:15:01] by my father and instructed on how to safely use them from shotguns to pistols
[3:15:06] to rifles. I fired, uh, more types of guns than the average citizen due to my service in the marine
[3:15:10] corps. Uh, I served from active duty from 2006 to 2010 with two
[3:15:14] deployments to iraq at the december 20, uh,
[3:15:18] 2025 planning commission meeting, uh, and a corresponds with the county
[3:15:22] officials. Walton road neighbors requested a formal sound study be conducted for any
[3:15:27] official action is taken on vsps application in order to understand the impact of the
[3:15:31] range noise, uh, that would be generated on the busiest days, particularly
[3:15:36] weekends and tournaments. We received, uh, only the weekend before notice
[3:15:40] from vsp that a shotgun demonstration, uh, would be conducted on site
[3:15:44] by vsp on january 12th, that monday vsp is shooting
[3:15:49] demonstration. Did not rep, uh, represent the type amplification or duration
[3:15:53] of tournament gunfire that is rapid, successive simultaneous,
[3:15:57] and lasts for hours. Their demonstration included only two firearms,
[3:16:01] two locations and approximately 40 minutes of shooting a hundred rounds
[3:16:05] in one location, 50 rounds in the other with no sound engineer on site.
[3:16:09] there was no verifiable sound measurements that day. Their demonstration was
[3:16:14] representative of your average next door neighbor running a single manual trap in
[3:16:18] his backyard, not a fun shoot, which generates shotgun fire every
[3:16:22] three to 10 seconds and dismisses the reasonable concerns of walton road
[3:16:26] neighbors regarding the impact of 17 shotgun stations.
[3:16:31] a demonstration for county officials that influences the decision making should have
[3:16:35] demonstrated the standard case scenario for noise, not the lightest case scenario.
[3:16:39] the county should not accept the january 12th shooting experience remotely representative of
[3:16:43] what walton road neighbors will experience if this cup is approved.
[3:16:49] the slide shows the approximate, uh, location. The vsp indicated live fire would originate
[3:16:53] on january 12th. As you can see, the two marked locations are not even placed exactly
[3:16:57] where the firing stations would be constructed. They're in the blue.
[3:17:05] this slide shows vsps particulars. They confirmed by email they would be using only two shooters
[3:17:10] with rounds fired from only two locations beyond specifying the size of ammunition, they
[3:17:14] did not specify weight load or feet per second. I wanna be clear
[3:17:18] again that vsp conducted what vsp conducted on january 12th is not a formal sound study
[3:17:22] and is not a replacement for a formal sound study, uh, conducted by a licensed
[3:17:27] engineer
[3:17:31] from the onset of the demonstration. I recognize that vsp was using much lighter loads than what
[3:17:35] walton road neighbors used for clay. Shooting on screen is a photo of the ammunition that vsp
[3:17:39] showed the county during the demonstration. I wanna point out that the weight of the ammunition
[3:17:43] is seven eighth ounces and the powder load is two and three quarters. Dr equivalent.
[3:17:48] the weight of the ammunition is important as heavier weights, uh, produce louder
[3:17:52] sound, especially when combined with higher dr. Equivalent vsb stated to
[3:17:56] the county. This is the exact type of ammunition is used for clay, uh,
[3:18:01] uh, shooting sports, which is true. It is equally true though that heavier
[3:18:05] weight and more powerful load can be used, uh, with which produces
[3:18:09] a much louder sound.
[3:18:14] upon conclusion of esp shooting walton road neighbors asked the remaining officials in
[3:18:18] the tenants, namely supervisor jonathan christie, uh, supervisor jonathan lyla, commissioner,
[3:18:22] uh, martin dean and guin planner benjamin ellis, if they would listen to a few shots
[3:18:26] fired from walden road neighbor, um, approximately the same distance away
[3:18:30] as the closest proposed vsp shooting station to the closest family home roughly
[3:18:35] 600 700 feet away. Mr. Sonny williams fired several rounds
[3:18:39] from two different types of ammunition representing a higher weight and low
[3:18:43] capacity than vsps shooting experience. The difference in sound was apparent to
[3:18:47] all who had in attendance and even vsp representatives remarked by, uh, to
[3:18:51] commissioner, uh, guy, uh, kimberly, uh, who was on vsp land with them that
[3:18:55] wal row neighbors were, and I quote, using much more powerful ammunition. Ammunition
[3:19:00] was that, um, ammunition that the applicant state would not be used for sporting clays. End
[3:19:04] quote. I wanna,
[3:19:08] sorry, I wanna say it again. The heavier weight and higher, uh, load ammunition
[3:19:12] fired mr. Williams can is used on clay shooting ranges.
[3:19:17] a promise is not a plan. If vsps application is approved, it must be under strict condition.
[3:19:21] it all ammunition must be purchased on site and that it must be the exact same
[3:19:25] low noise ammunition. Uh, they state was used at their january 12th
[3:19:29] shooting demonstration, shown as
[3:19:33] the first of two ammunitions ty, uh, fired by mr. Williams. It is heavier weight
[3:19:38] than vsps ammunition and produced a louder sound. Again, this can be used
[3:19:42] with sporting clays shown
[3:19:46] as a second type of ammunition fired. This can, this had both a heavier weight
[3:19:50] and a heavier load than vsps and produced a louder sound. Again, this
[3:19:54] can also be used for sporting clays.
[3:20:00] what vs p used on january 12th is on the lighter end of, uh,
[3:20:04] of what is used on clay shooting ranges versus the higher end as demonstrated by
[3:20:09] walton road neighbors. What vs p use should be the standard written in the cup
[3:20:13] if this application was to be approved. Nothing heavier, nothing more powerful,
[3:20:17] nothing louder
[3:20:23] tournaments, uchin county staff not in the report on packet
[3:20:27] 1, 3 4 and I quote the applicant states, mondays are the typical days for tournaments.
[3:20:32] end quote, the county should condition the vsp cup restricts tournaments only to
[3:20:36] mondays per the applicant's own statement and, uh,
[3:20:40] restrict to more than six times per year with each calendar day on a multi-day
[3:20:45] event counting as an individual unit, a two-day tournament would count as
[3:20:49] two separate times. Additionally, no alcohol should be served or consumed anywhere
[3:20:53] on site while range hours are in operation. Goin has, uh, restricted alcoholic
[3:20:57] beverages on clay shooting ranges with the orax cup.
[3:21:07] the county should condition that. V-s-p-c-u-p restricts special events on weekends. So
[3:21:11] no more than six times per year with each calendar day. A multi-day event counting as
[3:21:15] individual unit, a two day event should leave only four times
[3:21:19] on the calendar year. Again, no alcohol should be served or consumed
[3:21:23] anywhere on site during range hours.
[3:21:31] the county should not accept or approve v-s-p-c-u-p until a modified concept plan is shot.
[3:21:35] fall plan, plan be provided. Again, a promise is not a plan. Vsp must
[3:21:39] revise their shot fall plan to correct the overlapping shot fall zones to ensure that
[3:21:44] a 360 degree shot fall zone does not fall outside cup boundaries.
[3:21:48] this accounts for human error, redundancy and safety parameters will ensure public safety.
[3:21:53] a 360 degree shot fall zone should not cross cup boundaries. Property lines
[3:21:57] include residence or roads. The shot fall zone, uh, should
[3:22:01] not fall across or across or into wetlands. This is based on precedents
[3:22:05] at other ranges such as cavalier and hanover and middlesex county ordinance.
[3:22:10] regarding, uh, regarding outdoor ranges,
[3:22:15] signage and fencing, the county should con condition perimeter fencing and signs
[3:22:19] all around the shotgun range so that the axis is controlled to ensure the safety
[3:22:23] of the public at large, including children. There are 35 homes within half a mile
[3:22:27] vsp with over 20 children living in that area. Even rural middlesex
[3:22:31] county has zoning ordinances requiring fences around gun ranges.
[3:22:40] in conclusion, these conditions among others should be imposed on vsp
[3:22:44] cup should it be approved. The ammunition specifications must be
[3:22:48] no larger than seven and a half shot, no heavier than seven to eight ounces
[3:22:52] shall not exceed two and three quarters drum equivalent velocity shall not exceed 1,160
[3:22:56] feet per second. There shall be no more than six tournaments per year and only on
[3:23:01] mondays. There are no more than six special or weekend events per year. There
[3:23:05] should be no approval of the cup prior to a revised concept shot fall plan to
[3:23:09] include setbacks from property lines, residence and public. Uh, roads. A
[3:23:13] 360 degree shot falls zone does not cross cup boundaries,
[3:23:17] property lines, residence, public roads or across into wetlands. No shooting station
[3:23:21] closer than 1000 feet to the nearest occupied home from any direction.
[3:23:26] there should be perimeter fencing around the range for the safety of children, residents, and the general
[3:23:30] public. Thank you for your time. Any questions?
[3:23:36] okay, thanks. Thank you
[3:23:44] ms. Dalton's group
[3:23:50] matter honor. Good
[3:23:54] evening. Uh, my name is douglas stuff. I own the home at 4 9 7 8
[3:23:59] winter lane and I am seating my time to katrina dalton.
[3:24:07] hi, my name is shelby gibson and I live at 4 3 9 5 3
[3:24:12] bridge road, palatan, virginia, and I am conceding my time to katrina
[3:24:17] dalton. Good evening. My
[3:24:21] name is amanda olson. I live at 60 85 cartersville road in powhatan
[3:24:25] and I'm seating my time to katrina dalton.
[3:24:30] my name is heidi blaine. I live at 78 13 fern hollow drive in chesterfield, virginia.
[3:24:34] I'm seating my time to katrina dalton. Hi, I'm sandra
[3:24:39] bartel. I live at 2340 twin creeks lane in ens. I'm
[3:24:43] my time to katrina dalton. Hi, I'm joe bartell,
[3:24:47] 2340 twin creeks lane maidens, virginia. I'm seating my time to katrina
[3:24:51] dalton.
[3:25:27] good evening, madam chair and commissioners. My name is katrina dalton and I live at 46 21
[3:25:32] walton road. I've lived in the county for over 30 years and I appreciate the opportunity
[3:25:36] to speak tonight. First of all, I recognize that it is not easy to mediate between
[3:25:40] the competing interests of property owners and I wanna thank you for the time, consideration and
[3:25:44] effort to read through the body of research that we've submitted to you, especially in our community
[3:25:49] impact and site suitability report. This is an issue of property rights
[3:25:53] and not even remotely a contention of second amendment rights. A majority of walton
[3:25:57] road neighbors think that vsp has a good idea, but their proposed parcel is
[3:26:01] insufficient and their layout negatively impacts existing property owners.
[3:26:06] a good idea cannot justify a bad location, and this fact is supported by 245
[3:26:11] residents of goochland louis and surrounding counties who've signed our petition just in
[3:26:15] the last three months. Per gland county zoning ordinance chapter
[3:26:19] 15, a conditional use permit application must prove
[3:26:24] that their permit will not be detrimental to or endanger the public health, safety,
[3:26:28] morals, comfort, or general welfare. Their use will not be injurious
[3:26:33] to the use and enjoyment of other property in the immediate vicinity for the purposes
[3:26:37] already permitted. This is the standard by which the county must
[3:26:41] evaluate whether to approve or deny this application on behalf
[3:26:45] of walton road neighbors. I contend that vsb has not met this burden of proof.
[3:26:50] their proposed use will be detrimental and will endanger the public health,
[3:26:54] safety, comfort, and general welfare of our neighborhood, and it will be injurious to the
[3:26:58] use and enjoyment of our properties for the following reasons, their stations are
[3:27:03] positioned around the parcel perimeter with no setback or acoustic walls to buffer by
[3:27:07] distance or barrier. Berm and vegetation provide little to no reduction of
[3:27:11] sound. There are no conditions restricting ammunition type to be low noise.
[3:27:15] the hours of operation are unreasonable and will diminish our ability to enjoy
[3:27:20] our own properties. This endangers our safety, comfort, and general welfare
[3:27:25] range. Users will be shooting over and into wetlands against epas recommendations
[3:27:29] for outdoor ranges. This endangers the public health, safety and general
[3:27:33] welfare. The shortfall zones overlap and have no reasonable setback
[3:27:37] from property lines, public roads, and residences to mitigate consequences
[3:27:42] of range accidents. There is no proposed perimeter of fencing to
[3:27:46] keep out children who don't read signs, pets and the general public.
[3:27:51] this endangers public safety. This application also does not preclude
[3:27:55] lux stone from developing a quarry as already permitted. Cory blasts occur on
[3:28:00] schedule and admittedly, nobody wants to live next to a quarry either, but at least I
[3:28:04] can schedule around it. However, vsps own application has stated
[3:28:08] that it will not prevent lux stone from having
[3:28:12] a quarry, meaning that we will be subjected to both kinds of noise.
[3:28:17] additionally, vsps application is incomplete as they referenced a soil study
[3:28:21] on page five conducted by lux stone that was not submitted with their application
[3:28:25] for county and public review. As proposed and conditioned
[3:28:30] currently, the adverse impact of vsps proposal far outweighs any
[3:28:34] supposed benefit to the greater community. Any net good would be at the expense of
[3:28:38] immediate neighbors and does not remotely meet the standard in gland's zoning ordinance.
[3:28:44] at a minimum, the county does not have sufficient information to make a decision
[3:28:48] unless or until a professional sound study has been conducted
[3:28:52] and submitted for us to review ahead of time along with yourselves
[3:28:57] and an environmental impact survey which identifies wetlands and analyzes
[3:29:02] lead impact on them. These studies must be conducted and reviewed
[3:29:06] prior to considering the application. In december,
[3:29:10] we requested a formal sound study. It seems that they may or
[3:29:14] may not have done so. Uh, shooting off only 150 rounds doesn't
[3:29:18] remotely represent what will occur on a fun shoot day where
[3:29:22] you can have 1100 rounds going off per hour.
[3:29:28] similarly, the county cannot assess the environmental impact of putting thousands of pounds of
[3:29:33] lead into designated wetlands without a professional study. Uchin
[3:29:37] required an esp plan for ora packs, a 2013 cup to which I'll
[3:29:41] reference shortly, along with heavy bond requirements for lead mitigation
[3:29:45] and cleanup. Hanover also requires it cavalier, along with
[3:29:49] prohibiting their shooting over or into wetlands.
[3:29:55] we share county staff's concerns regarding overlapping shot fall zones on the concept
[3:29:59] plan, posing a danger to range users, but as currently proposed,
[3:30:03] there's a general public safety danger as well. These shooting stations are located
[3:30:07] on the perimeter of the cup boundary with no buffer into adjoining
[3:30:12] property. A 360 degree shot fall, which would account for human
[3:30:16] error, misfires or negligence must be contained
[3:30:20] within cup boundaries and not permitted to cross property lines occupied
[3:30:25] buildings or public roads. An updated concept
[3:30:29] plan should not wait for pod submittal. This is
[3:30:33] a safety issue that must be addressed prior to cup approval.
[3:30:37] vsp stated earlier tonight that this isn't a gun range, but last I checked. When
[3:30:41] you're shooting clays, you're using a gun. So this is semantics. Shotguns
[3:30:46] are being used on this site. Safety should be the highest concern.
[3:30:51] okay? Precedent exists in gland county to set reasonable conditions
[3:30:55] for the protection of existing property owners. In 2013,
[3:31:00] ghan approved a cup application for ora packs to operate a clay
[3:31:04] shooting range on the back end of their 670 acres
[3:31:08] at the farthest possible point from property lines, public roads,
[3:31:13] or the closest neighbor who was situated 0.8
[3:31:17] miles away. That's 4,224 feet away.
[3:31:22] in contrast, vsp shooting stations are approximately 400
[3:31:26] feet from the property line, 600 feet from a family home
[3:31:30] and 50 to a hundred feet from interstate 64 or
[3:31:35] apacs had inherently more buffering in their concept plan than
[3:31:39] vsp has in theirs.
[3:31:43] without explicitly conditioning setbacks for the cup
[3:31:48] glin would be implicitly setting the precedent that any developer could
[3:31:52] acquire an 85 acre parcel in glin to develop a range
[3:31:56] and position. Its firing stations along the perimeter, no matter the range's
[3:32:00] proximity to residences. Now gland has
[3:32:05] codified setbacks for other uses, namely quarries.
[3:32:09] considering that this property is already conditioned for a quarry, the same minimum setback
[3:32:13] should be conditioned for vsp at least 1000 feet from
[3:32:18] the nearest occupied dwelling. Per article 20 u standards, 15
[3:32:22] dash 2 83 f. Other rural virginia counties have codified
[3:32:26] similar setbacks a thousand feet from any residence per appomattox
[3:32:30] and frederick 500 to a thousand feet from any property line
[3:32:34] rappahannock in middlesex counties, 1000 feet from any water
[3:32:39] body including creeks per middlesex county. These
[3:32:43] are reasonable conditions imposed by other rural counties.
[3:32:48] goochland will set precedent with this application either
[3:32:52] by implicitly permitting conditions, in violation of zoning ordinances,
[3:32:57] or by imposing conditions that uphold the zoning ordinance.
[3:33:03] no other clay shooting range in virginia is open every day of the year as vsp requested,
[3:33:08] or for as many daily hours. Gwin restricted
[3:33:13] or apax is operation too seasonal, half a week and from 10:00 am
[3:33:17] to 4:00 pm without also conditioning setbacks. Though
[3:33:21] even limiting vsps hours to half a week during half the
[3:33:25] year would be detrimental to the nearby homeowner who works night shift.
[3:33:30] all of these conditions have to go together, setbacks, hours
[3:33:34] of operation, and specifying ammunition.
[3:33:38] okay. This combination of setbacks would start to
[3:33:43] bring the dial closer to mitigating the noise nuisance upon
[3:33:47] neighbors, but it would need to be confirmed by a professional sound study.
[3:33:51] vsp should not be permitted to control the decibel levels for the majority of our days,
[3:33:56] weeks, and months. As such, their
[3:34:00] application should be conditioned by a noise abatement plan, including
[3:34:05] noise monitoring at least twice a year at the property lines conducted by
[3:34:09] a third party sound engineer. It should also be done when more than two
[3:34:13] firearms are going off. It should be representative of a
[3:34:18] standard or heavier range use stay permitted. Dbas of the
[3:34:22] property line shall not exceed 55 dba per sound levels conditioned by uchin
[3:34:26] county for the tod tz and november, 2025 as precedent.
[3:34:31] in addition to uchin county precedent, similar conditions have been set by other
[3:34:35] counties, including hanover county's conditions. For cavalier,
[3:34:42] all the aforementioned conditions assume that a formal noise and environmental study proceed any
[3:34:46] decision by the county. As vsp has not provided sufficient information
[3:34:50] for uchin to make an informed decision about the application tonight,
[3:34:55] and their submittal of information yesterday does not afford
[3:35:00] the county or the public time to examine in detail without a formal noise
[3:35:04] study, environmental study, and updated concept plan, the commission should defer their
[3:35:08] vote. At a minimum, the county must impose conditions as the current application
[3:35:12] is detrimental and endangers the health and general welfare of neighboring property
[3:35:16] owners. Our presented conditions are reasonable and based on precedent in
[3:35:21] gland, along with precedent and comparable counties. As a mother who spends the
[3:35:25] majority of our days educating our soon to be six children at home, to
[3:35:29] be responsible, considerate citizens, I ask that you would defer your
[3:35:33] approval or deny it outright as being unsuitable for the proposed location.
[3:35:38] thank you for your time. Thank you. Thank you.
[3:35:46] if linda morris and lindsey steele could come to the podium
[3:35:51] and then kent cantwell, rebecca steadman, heather cantwell,
[3:35:56] dennis casner, paula patterson and stan patterson. Have
[3:36:00] a seat in the front row. Okay.
[3:36:04] hi, my name's linda morris. I'm at 4 1 2 5 clay morris
[3:36:09] estates and I see my time to lindsey steele.
[3:36:14] hi, I am lindsey steele. I live at 5 0 3 4 angel road.
[3:36:19] um, and I thank you for allowing time again for me to speak.
[3:36:23] I introduced myself in december to you and testified
[3:36:27] to the acidic water in my home, and I'm 0.5 from
[3:36:31] the range. I also would just like to add, I have two streams on my
[3:36:36] land that feed into a pond that I share with my neighbor, the wearers.
[3:36:41] um, and so there's one thing that I wanted to talk about
[3:36:45] that bsp stated in both of its community meetings.
[3:36:49] it's said very proudly led is legal. I'm
[3:36:53] very happy to hear at least that the staff tonight, uh,
[3:36:58] recognize the seriousness, but it concerns me that they so publicly
[3:37:03] seem unconcerned with lead. Um,
[3:37:08] I, so I teach at glen allen high school. I teach ceramics.
[3:37:12] and so, um, my field of study has been, um, of
[3:37:16] course with ceramics and glazes. And so when they said that,
[3:37:21] it, um, definitely affects me. 'cause I know right away that lead
[3:37:25] is not legal in ceramic glazes anymore. It's also not legal in pipes
[3:37:29] in our home or paints. And I can probably find other things that
[3:37:33] it's not legal in because people know already it's not
[3:37:37] at all, um, good for humans. In fact, it's a cumulative
[3:37:42] thing. So any heavy metal, um, that we
[3:37:46] use. And when I have mixed glazes, I have to wear a respirator mask,
[3:37:50] goggles, gloves, because any lead or heavy metal
[3:37:54] exposure I get stays in my body, um, for my whole life.
[3:37:58] you don't expel it and it, it lands in your soft tissues, which is mostly
[3:38:02] your brain. So it's something that I have to stay careful,
[3:38:06] um, with in my work. And then, um, to hear
[3:38:10] that it would be in our environment, um, for recreation,
[3:38:15] um, brings up that need and want that I brought up last time of
[3:38:19] we need clean water. Um, and I feel like the speakers
[3:38:23] tonight have pointed out the wetlands. Um, also the stream
[3:38:27] that runs right through the property and feeds into the south anna river.
[3:38:33] um, so one, um,
[3:38:37] alternative that I've heard brought up, and I don't know anything about guns,
[3:38:41] um, but I've heard about steel shooting or steel
[3:38:45] bullets. Um, instead of lead bullets, I
[3:38:50] just have to ask you to think very carefully. That doesn't seem like a very
[3:38:54] good alternative because it is impossible to know
[3:38:58] if people are actually following that rule rule or not. Um,
[3:39:02] at henrico in henrico high school, um,
[3:39:06] in henrico county and at glen allen high school, I am a bag searcher
[3:39:11] for weapons in the mornings. And so, um, just the
[3:39:15] thought of having to, even if they did put on a condition, someone going
[3:39:19] through bags to check if they brought in lead bullets, it is just
[3:39:23] impossible. I go through bags five days a week to see if anybody has brought a
[3:39:27] gun into the school. And so that's a larger object. A
[3:39:32] bullet is a smaller object, and I just know people are cheap. And if steel
[3:39:36] bullets cost more, they're gonna go with lead bullets and they're gonna sneak it in. Just like
[3:39:40] at the movies when you sneak in candy , people don't care if it's
[3:39:44] a box of candy or bullets, like they just wanna save a dollar.
[3:39:48] so I, um, just
[3:39:53] ask you to really consider the lead in the environment.
[3:39:57] and this is a little, um, word problem from, um, one
[3:40:01] of our neighbors, but it, it should bring back school memories for you. Um,
[3:40:05] so 17 shooting stations, two shots fired
[3:40:10] per station per person. 12 gauge clay shot
[3:40:14] has 1.25 ounces of lead shot per cartridge.
[3:40:18] that is 42.5 ounces of lead per person making the
[3:40:23] complete round of shooting stations. Let's say they have 15 people
[3:40:27] per day shooting less on weekends, more on weekends,
[3:40:31] on only 200 days of the year. We're ignoring the huge amount of people
[3:40:35] that would be at tournaments. Take our 42.5 ounce
[3:40:39] per lead person per person times 15 people times 200
[3:40:44] days equals 127,500
[3:40:48] ounces of lead per year, or 7,969
[3:40:53] pounds of lead being put into the environment per year in that small
[3:40:57] area. That's almost four tons of lead. With lead being
[3:41:02] not safe at any level. How can this be safe per people living
[3:41:06] in the area? Thank you for your time.
[3:41:12] I'm dennis kaner. I reside at 4 9 9 4 double
[3:41:16] eagle drive, louisa, virginia. I yield my time to stan
[3:41:20] peterson. My name is
[3:41:24] paula patterson. I live at 49 83 winter lane and I seed
[3:41:28] my time to stan patterson.
[3:41:33] rebecca steadman, 38 64 3 chop road gum springing
[3:41:37] virginia. And I seed my time to stan patterson.
[3:41:42] my name is heather cantwell. My husband kent cantwell couldn't be here, so I'm here in place of
[3:41:46] him. I'm at 4 5 8 0 fox chase run in gum springing and I'm seating
[3:41:51] my time to stan patterson.
[3:41:55] well, my name is stan patterson. I live at 49 83 winter lane.
[3:42:00] uh, we've lived there for 10 years and, uh, I would like to thank the planning, commission
[3:42:04] planning and zoning and staff for the opportunity to speak in opposition to the proposed
[3:42:09] gun range cup tonight I'd like to speak on the continuing environmental
[3:42:13] concerns of noise and lead pollution. First, why I appreciate the effort by
[3:42:17] vsp to provide a noise study by shooting shotguns from their site. This effort
[3:42:21] in no way, no way, represents a professional sound evaluation by an acoustic engineer
[3:42:26] on 12 on 1 12 26, I was in attendance from 10:00 am
[3:42:30] to 11:30 am observing the shooting demonstration by vspi
[3:42:35] used a class two, a weighted sound pressure measuring device from several locations
[3:42:39] along the vsp and leandro property line. My device measured a maximum
[3:42:43] of 76.9 decibels from the vsp demonstration. However,
[3:42:48] I had no idea of the distance to the source elevation, the density of
[3:42:52] the vegetation, the direction of the shooting, the size and type of shot,
[3:42:56] and other critical factors necessary for an accurate evaluation. It's
[3:43:00] my understanding post demonstration that vsp used 12 gauge two and three quarter
[3:43:04] inch seven eights ounce lead load shells
[3:43:08] research of typical tournament shooting indicates this is a much lighter load than normal
[3:43:13] and one in an eight ounce load is most common. The sound characteristics are substantially
[3:43:17] louder for a one in an eight ounce load. I was also present when mr. Williams
[3:43:22] demonstrated his 12 gauge two and three quarter one in an eight ounce load
[3:43:26] shells at approximately 450 feet from the source. My
[3:43:30] device recorded a maximum 96.4 decibels.
[3:43:35] vsp stated to channel 12 news that the shooting demonstration on 1 12 26
[3:43:40] was professional. This statement's incorrect for truly accurate sound measurements.
[3:43:44] vsp needs to provide an evaluation by an independent third party sound
[3:43:48] analysis firm. That would include calibrated equipment, detailed sound production, and
[3:43:52] reception maps and distances. The study would include wind relative
[3:43:57] humidity, direction of shooting, trajectory of shooting elevations, and
[3:44:01] trajectory of the shot and certification in the size and load of the shells used.
[3:44:05] a professional port would show legal chain of custody and expert testimony
[3:44:10] until this type of test is performed by vsp. Any sound propagation such as
[3:44:14] the one on 1 12 26 remains only as conjecture and
[3:44:18] should not be considered sufficient to address the concerns of the residence and
[3:44:22] the comments and concerns from the planning and zoning. Secondly, lead
[3:44:27] pollution and harm remains an extremely concerning issue
[3:44:31] for residents and must be addressed before any action on this cop. We all
[3:44:35] know that lead is a toxin with serious harmful consequences to humans and wildlife.
[3:44:39] it's evident from the vsp concept site plan and from the gland planning
[3:44:43] staff report that all but one of the shooting stations will shoot into or overshoot
[3:44:48] wetlands and deep creek. A very real issue exists that
[3:44:53] thousands of pounds of lead pellets per year will be deposited into the wetlands and
[3:44:57] deep creek that bisect this property. Once these pellets,
[3:45:01] once these lead pellets land and accumulate in the wetlands, creeks or streams, they
[3:45:05] are considered hazardous waste by epa.gov. This property drains
[3:45:09] into deep creek. The lead pellets can be moved from storm runoff with each rainfall
[3:45:14] lead compounds can be dissolved and moved downstream as well as into the groundwater.
[3:45:18] epa.gov states that lead in solution can move
[3:45:22] miles through the ground, relatively unchanged regarding lead
[3:45:26] vsp stated to channel 12 news that nothing leaves the property. This is also
[3:45:30] incorrect. If the waters of deep creek leave the site, which they do continuously,
[3:45:35] then the lead pollution in solution leaves the site and contaminate
[3:45:40] contaminates waters and at and aquifers downstream. To date
[3:45:44] the epas laws under the resource conservation and recovery act
[3:45:48] and the clean water act specifically provides citizens the right to sue gun ranges
[3:45:53] when the environment and human health are threatened, threatened being the key word here.
[3:45:58] citizens do not have to wait to be poisoned by the lead pollution to engage epa and take
[3:46:02] legal action under e-p-a-r-c-r.
[3:46:06] a lead shot is regulated spent shot interlink entering waterways
[3:46:10] or left in the environment is considered a hazardous waste and a pollutant
[3:46:14] as written in section 7,002 and 7,003 of the rcra
[3:46:19] statute. E-p-a-r-c-r-a applies to many phases
[3:46:23] of this range operation because lead pts are a solid and or hazardous
[3:46:27] waste and can present an actual or potential imminent and substantial
[3:46:31] endangerment. Epa state epa state municipalities
[3:46:36] or citizens groups can take legal action under the statutory provisions of rcra
[3:46:40] against gun clubs for actual or potential environmental
[3:46:44] damage during or even after the operation of the club. Again, citizens
[3:46:48] do not have to wait to take legal action when there's a potential or imminent
[3:46:53] environmental danger. The epa clean water act
[3:46:57] prohibits quote, the discharge of any pollutants by any person
[3:47:01] into the waters of the us without a national pollution discharge
[3:47:06] and elimination system permit per epa
[3:47:10] expended shot and target debris and including non-toxic
[3:47:14] steel shot that inter wetlands streams and or waters of the us are defined
[3:47:19] as pollutants as defined by the clean water act
[3:47:23] per e-p-a-c-w-a. Any range who shot or target debris
[3:47:27] enters wetlands, lakes, streams, or even guts that are frequently dry
[3:47:32] but drain into wetlands or streams are subject to government and or citizen
[3:47:36] lawsuits per e-p-a-c-w-a
[3:47:41] shooting ranges must cease operations over wetlands and waterways. And it is essential
[3:47:46] that those ranges design or change their direction of shooting to avoid shooting into
[3:47:50] wetlands or waters of the us per epa comprehensive
[3:47:54] environmental response compensation in liability act or rcla
[3:47:59] epa states that shooting ranges may be liable for government costs incurred
[3:48:03] during cleanup of ranges. Natural resource damages, health assessments
[3:48:07] and health effects studies. As I mentioned in my earlier notes, I found instances
[3:48:12] where lead cleanup in wetlands can cost as much as $150,000 per
[3:48:16] acre, but this is a fraction of the cost for lead pollution downstream
[3:48:20] and off of the vsp property and the damages to health safety welfare
[3:48:24] of thousands of residents cleanup and damages here could be in the millions.
[3:48:29] this c this rcla situation is where the term superfund
[3:48:34] cleanup is typically found. It is my understanding that the liability for this
[3:48:38] cleanup, the producer of pollution vsp, is responsible for all costs.
[3:48:42] but as an l-l-c-v-s-p can declare bankruptcy, and since gland county is
[3:48:47] aware of the lead situation at the time of c-o-p-c-u-p approval
[3:48:51] may be considered negligent and gland county taxpayers will ultimately be responsible
[3:48:55] for all cleanup costs. I will also state that all of the information
[3:48:59] I've detailed above are fax taking from epa.gov best
[3:49:03] management practices for lead at shooting ranges and epa.gov superfund
[3:49:08] liability in conclusion regarding noise,
[3:49:12] vsp has not provided any realistic professional sound study that will alleviate the concerns
[3:49:16] of undue harm to health, safety, and welfare of adjacent residents regarding
[3:49:21] lead pollution and poisoning. Due to the potential serious epa violations
[3:49:25] and impacts, vsp cannot build this gun range on this piece of property. The
[3:49:30] shooting stations cannot be built so as not to pollute the wet, pollute the wetlands
[3:49:34] and streams. There simply isn't enough land. The property is too small for the proposed
[3:49:38] use. The wetlands cannot be avoided with 17 overlapping
[3:49:42] shot fall zones as shown on the planning and zoning report. Regardless of the direction
[3:49:46] vsp may try to show this proposed use clearly violates laws
[3:49:50] of the epa, the resource conservation recovery act, the clean water act,
[3:49:55] and if approved, will undoubtedly be subject to legal action under the comprehensive environmental
[3:50:00] response compensation and liability act. Why would gland
[3:50:04] county even begin to enjoin themselves in a potentially legal
[3:50:08] act, illegal act by approving this cup? But
[3:50:13] regardless of the facts I've just read, who is
[3:50:17] okay with children having to wear hearing protection just to play in their yard?
[3:50:21] and who wants to take the risk, the real and potential lead poisoning
[3:50:26] of residents and children when lead toxins emerge in their drinking water and aquifer?
[3:50:30] thank you very much for your opportunity to, to oppose this cup
[3:50:35] and if anybody has any questions, I'll be glad to try to answer them.
[3:50:41] thank you. Okay,
[3:50:45] if we could have bridget taylor, ian smith and brandy sisson
[3:50:50] come to the podium and then waiting on the front row. Justin lagerfeld,
[3:50:54] courtney edwards, kyle edwards, robin larson,
[3:50:59] kevin larson, kathy edi, and bob lippers.
[3:51:09] my name is ian smith at 5 0 2 4 ang road.
[3:51:13] I am seating my time to brandy sissen.
[3:51:18] my name is bridget taylor. I live at 50 24 ain road. I'm seating
[3:51:22] my time to brandy sissen.
[3:51:28] hi, I'm brandy sissen. I live at 5 0 2 6
[3:51:32] ain road within a, within a half a mile of the proposed site for virginia sports park.
[3:51:37] I'm an accountant, so I'm going to share some numbers with you for
[3:51:41] a sporting clay tournament. Once a sh once a shooter steps up to the
[3:51:45] shooting station, they have 20 seconds to call for a target. And between shots
[3:51:50] and between shots, assuming a bare minimum of one target at
[3:51:54] the maximum allowable time, each shooter will fire three times a minute.
[3:51:59] this will happen at all 15 state stations simultaneously.
[3:52:05] this very conservative estimate of three shots a minute at 15 stations
[3:52:09] with the proposal of 8.75 hours in winter
[3:52:13] at the earliest sunset of the year, means that 23,625
[3:52:18] shots will be fired that day. An argument could be made that the
[3:52:22] tournament won't run from open to close or that attendance won't be consistent
[3:52:27] constant the whole time. Of course, that is likely to be true at, at
[3:52:31] least until loca the location becomes popular enough to warrant all day
[3:52:36] or multi-day tournaments, which is what any commercial gun range is incentivized
[3:52:41] to achieve. It also doesn't factor in travel
[3:52:45] time between stations or lulls between shooters, but again, as a courtesy
[3:52:49] to other participants, moving quickly at moving quickly at
[3:52:53] and between stations is encouraged. So to be generous, let's
[3:52:57] assume half the number of shots are fired. That's still more than 10,000
[3:53:02] shots per day during winter hours during the
[3:53:06] summer when operating hours are at their longest and attendance is likely
[3:53:11] to be at its peak, taking all of those minimums of three shots per minute,
[3:53:15] 15 stations, 12.75 business hours. That gives us 34,425
[3:53:22] shots. If we cut that in half 17,212 shots
[3:53:26] per day, that's an overwhelming number of shots and
[3:53:30] that's near the minimum. My husband and I recently attended
[3:53:34] a, a national sporting clays association registered fun shoot,
[3:53:39] which is a more relaxed non tournament event at central virginia
[3:53:43] sporting clays on sunday, january 11th. They have 14 stations,
[3:53:47] one less than vp vsps proposed 15,
[3:53:51] and they weren't using at least one station that we could see from the parking lot
[3:53:55] where we stayed. There were about 10 vehicles in the lot
[3:53:59] with another four in the truck with trailer lot, no
[3:54:04] telling how many were employees versus attendees. We sat in
[3:54:08] the car for from about one 50 to two 2:10 pm which
[3:54:12] would have been about halfway through that day's, shooting hours of 12
[3:54:17] to 4:30 pm we recorded for about 15 to 20 minutes.
[3:54:21] as we drove up, we started to hear the shots around a half a mile
[3:54:25] away through trees and around a corner over
[3:54:29] the 20 or so minutes we recorded the average rate of shots fired
[3:54:34] was one every three seconds or about 20 per minute.
[3:54:38] at about at 8.75 operating hours proposed
[3:54:42] by vsp we're looking at 10,500 shots. Imagine if this
[3:54:47] had been an actual tournament with full attendance. Vsp
[3:54:51] is proposing to subject at a minimum of three dozen family homes
[3:54:55] within a half a mile of to this experience on a regular basis for
[3:54:59] eight or more hours a day, and likely many of the other 90
[3:55:03] homes within a one mile of the shooting range. No
[3:55:08] one should be forced to live like this, like that.
[3:55:12] I'm going to use the remainder of my time to play for you. Um, what that
[3:55:16] demonstration might sound like. Um, what a low key
[3:55:21] modestly attended event, a full 30 minutes south of zion cross roads
[3:55:25] is likely to, uh, is like in reality.
[3:56:49] I stopped it. Okay. If I had, I was trying to find out how much was left
[3:56:53] on it, so it stopped. I'll, I'll move on. I counted 36 shots in that, in that
[3:56:57] video. That should have been an hour, uh, one minute and 40 seconds long.
[3:57:01] put another way a shot on average, not that it's a statistically
[3:57:05] valid measurement. Um, every 1.66
[3:57:10] seconds a shot was fired. I ask you,
[3:57:14] I ask that you do not recommend a gun range at this location.
[3:57:19] and since I still have some time, I'm gonna comment on
[3:57:23] a couple of things. By definition, this is much closer
[3:57:27] to a gun range than a golf course, um, which
[3:57:31] is how they keep referring to it. Um, as I'm also gonna
[3:57:35] note here, I that this nonprofit
[3:57:40] or for a nonprofit to say community so many times as they,
[3:57:44] as they approach us this board and talk about their, their intentions,
[3:57:49] they didn't once knock on a neighbor's door to, to discuss
[3:57:54] their plans. Thank you. And I'm sorry about
[3:57:58] my video, . I could send
[3:58:02] it to you though if you want. Thank you. Okay, .
[3:58:09] um, justin lagerfeld, courtney
[3:58:13] edwards. Kyle edwards.
[3:58:17] hi, my name's justin lagerfeld. I was gonna, uh, see my time with kyle, but uh, he said it's okay.
[3:58:22] it was okay with you. I'd like to speak very briefly. That's fine. Can you state your address please? 800
[3:58:26] rockford road and your name again? One more time. I'm sorry. Sorry. Justin lagerfeld.
[3:58:32] the words of our lord jesus christ from his sermon on the mount. Um, the gospel
[3:58:36] according to matthew. So whatever you wish that
[3:58:40] others would do to you, do also to them. For this is the law
[3:58:44] and the prophets enter by the narrow gate for the gate is wide
[3:58:49] and the way it's easy that leads to destruction and those who enter by it are many
[3:58:53] for the gate is narrow and the way it's hard that leads to life and those who
[3:58:57] find it a few.
[3:59:11] all right. I'm kyle edwards. I live at 4 6 0 2
[3:59:15] walton road. Um, I'm roughly 1200 feet from the closest
[3:59:20] shooting station. That's about, um, the entrance to the parking lot here
[3:59:24] to just out of the roundabout. Um,
[3:59:29] I was on a s***t shooting team at my middle school and high school. Um, I've
[3:59:33] shot thousands of rounds. I've never used seven eight ounce. I she
[3:59:37] like was used in the demonstration. Um, always used, uh, one in
[3:59:41] the eighth. Um, anyway, um,
[3:59:47] god's blessed me and my wife with two sons and, um, we plan on homeschooling.
[3:59:52] we spent a lot of time outside at the house and, you
[3:59:56] know, I really look forward to my sons getting older, teach 'em how
[4:00:00] to shoot, taking 'em, s***t, shooting, taking 'em hunting. But I would never take
[4:00:04] 'em to a, to a shooting range or a sporting clays facility
[4:00:08] that close to houses. Um, reason being, I feel like
[4:00:13] I would be, uh, a little hypocritical if I taught him, you know,
[4:00:17] to love your neighbor as yourself. And then I did that.
[4:00:21] it just doesn't, doesn't seem right. But, um,
[4:00:28] as katrina mentioned, the uh, goon county ordinance
[4:00:33] for, um, cup applicants states that, um,
[4:00:37] the establishment, uh, establishment, maintenance or operation of the conditional use will not
[4:00:41] be detrimental to or endanger of the public health, safety, morals, comfort,
[4:00:46] or general welfare. And this conditional use will not be injurious
[4:00:50] to the use and enjoyment of other property and the immediate vicinity for the
[4:00:54] purposes already permitted. And I just don't see how that could be.
[4:00:58] um, this would go with that being that, um, there
[4:01:02] are homes so close to the proposed facility, um, as mr.
[4:01:07] sisson, um, showed on his graphic. Dsp would be
[4:01:11] the only, um, sport and clays facility with any houses within
[4:01:15] a quarter mile. All six other facilities had
[4:01:19] zero. Um, we would have 10,
[4:01:24] within a half a mile. We would have 35 houses
[4:01:28] within the facility. Um,
[4:01:33] there's three that has zero, one that has eight, one that has four, and one that has three.
[4:01:38] so, um, just on that alone, uh, I think
[4:01:42] it speaks volumes. Um, I would ask that y'all don't approve in this
[4:01:47] location. I hope they find a better location 'cause I would like to have, uh, somewhere
[4:01:51] local to take my son, but it just isn't it. Thank y'all. Thank you.
[4:01:59] robin larson, kevin larson, excuse
[4:02:03] me. Robin larson. I'm gonna try really hard. 4 6 3 8 walton
[4:02:07] road and I'm seating my time to him. You don't want to hear me speak tonight.
[4:02:18] good evening, madam chairman and commissioners, or maybe I should say goodnight given the time.
[4:02:22] my name is kevin larson and I live at 4 6 3 8 walton road.
[4:02:26] I've resided in gland for more than 30 years, and on
[4:02:30] walton road for over 25. My family has adopted
[4:02:35] walton road and three chopped road as part of the vdot adopt a highway program
[4:02:39] for almost 25 years. We have raised six children in gland
[4:02:43] and soon seven of our 11 grandchildren will call walton road
[4:02:47] home. I'm very thankful for the opportunity to speak tonight.
[4:02:52] I plan to touch on the youth aspect of the, uh, vsp plan.
[4:02:57] vsp has stated that their facilities will be a benefit to the youth of gland and
[4:03:01] possibly other counties in their request and in testimonials from supporters.
[4:03:05] vsp has positioned this as a benefit to the children of the county,
[4:03:10] but they failed to make a compelling case. I'm gonna touch on
[4:03:14] two areas. You, um, organizational usage. Vsp
[4:03:18] received a wonderful endorsement from scouting america. Former formerly bsa
[4:03:23] recent news reports indicate that scouting america is looking to
[4:03:27] do some improvements to their current facilities in gland. Why would
[4:03:32] a nonprofit like scouting america invest so much in their own facilities
[4:03:36] and then utilize a different location at an added cost
[4:03:41] trail? Life of america, which is another youth scouting organization. And there
[4:03:45] are, there's at least one troop in gland and one in, uh, the very
[4:03:49] extreme western end of henrico county have
[4:03:53] over 40 young men. Neither one of these troops are planning to
[4:03:58] haul these children out to haydenville to use this facility.
[4:04:03] american heritage girls, which is a, a similar organization, uh,
[4:04:08] focusing on girls. There are two, again, two troops with over a hundred young
[4:04:12] ladies. They won't be using the facility.
[4:04:16] where are these supposed children coming from? Well, when
[4:04:20] you look at the hours of operation, it's gonna be very difficult. The vsp
[4:04:24] facility will have much of its operating time while uchin students are in classes.
[4:04:30] will the school bus students for almost 20 minutes out
[4:04:34] to haydenville to use the facilities for a pe class and then
[4:04:38] bust them back that's not gonna fit into a school day?
[4:04:42] are they gonna use it for after school things? I just think of the parents that
[4:04:46] have maybe a, an older son in, in football, a
[4:04:50] a daughter playing field hockey, and then their third child wants to be involved in the
[4:04:54] shooting. There is no way they can make all these trips around the county. It just isn't
[4:04:58] feasible. I appreciate that they want to provide something for the children.
[4:05:03] this just doesn't make sense logistically. In short, the
[4:05:08] recommended benefit to the children is a shira.
[4:05:13] as others have noted, there are many children in the immediate area of vsps
[4:05:17] facilities. Those children already have access to private gun ranges
[4:05:21] to utilize under direct family supervision. The opera, the
[4:05:25] archery range is the only portion that may see any neighborhood use.
[4:05:30] I, for one, am very interested in the archery range in vsp
[4:05:34] cup application, they were required to reply, I believe it's
[4:05:38] question number five. And on the, the, um, it was page seven, I believe,
[4:05:42] of their, their submittal on imp, uh, statement about the
[4:05:46] impact to adjacent properties. Instead of doing so,
[4:05:51] bp's application talked about hope for benefits to the county,
[4:05:56] did not state anything about the adjacent properties.
[4:06:00] now, I worked first, uh, 10 years, uh, of my career
[4:06:04] at air force geophysics lab and the remaining 30 or so
[4:06:08] years at a large banking corporation that has
[4:06:12] facilities here in gland. We won't say which one. Uh, and I was in their risk
[4:06:17] department. And one of the things that has been talked about amongst,
[4:06:21] um, federal regulations is something called disparate treatment.
[4:06:26] and I'm wondering to what extent do, um, cup
[4:06:31] applications fail to answer questions? And
[4:06:35] to what extent do does our community government hold
[4:06:39] them to answering those questions properly? So I'm
[4:06:43] respectfully asking the planning commission to either and hopefully reject
[4:06:47] the cup application altogether due to its
[4:06:51] incomplete submissions, or to at least require vsp to address the
[4:06:55] issues being raised by the adjacent property owners. And to
[4:06:59] thoroughly complete the required items on the cup madam chair
[4:07:04] and commissioners, thank you for your services to our, our community, and for your attention
[4:07:08] to these matters. Goodnight . Thank you.
[4:07:12] thank you. Kathy eddy
[4:07:16] and bob lepers. Hi, I'm kathy eddi,
[4:07:20] um, 1125 nib lane mannequin. I'm seating my time to
[4:07:25] bob leifer. Good evening, madam
[4:07:29] chair and members of the planning commission. My name is bob lipert. I reside at 3 0 0 4
[4:07:34] rugby road, richmond. I'm here tonight speaking in support of the request
[4:07:39] of the cup for virginia sports park. As
[4:07:43] you've heard a number of times, there are concerns with the environmental issues
[4:07:47] that, uh, potential environmental issues that, uh, might occur
[4:07:51] with this facility. And I'd like to try to take and give you a little bit
[4:07:55] of background or detail on those issues.
[4:08:00] wetlands, surface waters, subsurface waters, uh,
[4:08:04] add lead, fall under the regulation and control of the clean
[4:08:08] water act and the epa and are enforced
[4:08:13] by various federal, state, and local agencies if
[4:08:17] you approve this request. And should the board of supervisors approve
[4:08:21] this request, it allows the development of the engineering studies and
[4:08:25] designs to confirm the existence of wetlands, surface waters,
[4:08:29] subsurface waters, storm waters, uh, quantities,
[4:08:34] locations, and lead effect in order to submit plans
[4:08:38] to these agencies to clarify how we intend to manage these issues and
[4:08:43] obtain their approval in the required permits.
[4:08:47] additionally, during the course of the construction, periodic field inspections are conducted
[4:08:51] by these agencies to confirm their compliance. The time
[4:08:56] required to complete these, to complete these studies and the engineering design
[4:09:01] and approvals will frankly take somewhere between 12 to 16
[4:09:05] months to accomplish.
[4:09:10] it's important to understand that should you choose to approve this request,
[4:09:15] it does not suggest that you have studied, uh, any of
[4:09:19] these issues or provide any approval of the same.
[4:09:23] your approval simply means that the use is suitable for the
[4:09:27] location and zoning and will and will allow for
[4:09:31] the then the development of the pod plans, which will clarify some
[4:09:35] of this information that's questioned.
[4:09:40] one last item, um, regarding the
[4:09:44] temporary trailer. Um, as noted, vsp
[4:09:49] is a 5 0 1 3 c nonprofit,
[4:09:54] um, excuse me,
[4:10:02] the, the, the estimated full cost development cost of the
[4:10:06] facility. Right now we're expecting to be somewhere around 3.5 million.
[4:10:13] um, that money is not going to come in the door en mass.
[4:10:17] it's gonna be raised by, uh, individual contribution, corporate
[4:10:21] contribution, and in some cases, some, uh, grants that might apply for
[4:10:25] facilities of this sort. So it will take a
[4:10:29] bit of time to get to that point. And in order to begin to get some
[4:10:34] level of operation, it has suggested that we would operate from a temporary
[4:10:38] trailer and temporary health facilities. In order to install
[4:10:42] those facilities, we would have to develop plans dic,
[4:10:46] uh, detailing where they would be located. In addition, seek
[4:10:51] permits from both the, uh, gland county building inspection
[4:10:55] department and the gland health department who would oversee those
[4:10:59] operations. Lastly, I and I, I'd
[4:11:04] like to point out, and I think it's been noted, that per the terms of
[4:11:08] our lease with lux stone, uh, we
[4:11:12] are required to develop and implement
[4:11:17] and maintain an environmental management plan to ensure that no
[4:11:21] en en environmental issues are allowed to develop.
[4:11:25] thank you for your time. Thank you.
[4:11:30] thank you. If, if jt frazier and
[4:11:34] mike richmond could come to the podium, and if we could also have in the front
[4:11:38] row, brian c justin, lacey, lonnie, bryce,
[4:11:42] marcy reese, sonny williams, joshua cather,
[4:11:47] jerry weaver. Stacy sson.
[4:11:54] good evening. I'm jt frazier. 9 9 2 0 par drive,
[4:11:58] oaksville, virginia. I'm saving my time to mike richmond. Thank you.
[4:12:03] my name is mike michael richmond, r-s-c-h-m-o-n. Live at 1 3 4 7
[4:12:07] hounslow drive, mannequin seven. Uh, what the founders meant
[4:12:12] by virtue. Virtue can be defined as self-restraint in the service of
[4:12:16] the common good. For the founders, virtue meant willingness to place
[4:12:20] the public good above private interests, discipline, courage,
[4:12:25] honesty, industry, and civic responsibility virtue
[4:12:29] as what is best for the population, rather than a few individuals
[4:12:33] not legislating for one class at the expense of others.
[4:12:37] that distinction virtue as devotion to the good of the whole rather
[4:12:42] than the advantage of the few goes straight to the heart of the american founding.
[4:12:47] the founders believed the republic would survive only if
[4:12:51] citizens and leaders constantly subordinated narrow self-interest to
[4:12:55] the common good. The founders were intensely worried about rule
[4:12:59] by factions, small groups using power to enrich themselves.
[4:13:04] factions arise from the nature of man, but liberty is
[4:13:08] endangered. When factions capture government for private advantage.
[4:13:12] virtue meant laws made for general benefit,
[4:13:17] burdens and benefits shared fairly. Sacrifice
[4:13:21] accepted when necessarily for the whole john adams argued
[4:13:25] that liberty exists only when laws are equally
[4:13:30] binding on all and calculated for the general good.
[4:13:34] anything else was not liberty, it was favoritism. Virtue meant
[4:13:38] resisting policies that favored or enriched a few by manipulating public
[4:13:42] power, even if those policies were legal. When
[4:13:47] virtue is widely held, freedom expands when it captures
[4:13:51] into self-interest. Freedom concentrates until it disappears.
[4:13:56] applying the founders' idea of virtue as commitment to common good to local
[4:14:00] governance and land use debates is not abstract
[4:14:04] theory. It is exactly the scale at which they believe republican virtue
[4:14:09] mattered. Most towns, counties, and local boards
[4:14:13] were character, fairness and restraint would be tested daily.
[4:14:17] a virtuous land use decision asked what best serves
[4:14:22] the long-term welfare of the whole community, not merely the comfort,
[4:14:26] profit or preferences of a few. The standard
[4:14:30] rejects, reflective, reflexive, no change ever
[4:14:34] obstruction, special carve-outs for connected interest. Emotional
[4:14:39] decision making, untethered from facts virtue requires
[4:14:43] deliberation, fairness, and foresight. The founders
[4:14:48] warned against faction, small groups dominating public decisions
[4:14:53] in land use debates, factions often appeared as a handful
[4:14:57] of nearby property owners seeking veto power,
[4:15:02] developers seeking preferential treatment. Madison's warning
[4:15:06] in federalist 10 applies directly. Factions become
[4:15:10] dangerous when it pursues its interest at the expense of the permanent and aggregate
[4:15:14] interest of the community. A virtuous board must resist
[4:15:19] captured by faction, even sympathetic ones. The founders did
[4:15:23] not expect freedom. Freedom to be silent or frictionless.
[4:15:28] virtue demands reasonable accommodation, not eliminations
[4:15:32] of all inconvenience applied principles,
[4:15:36] distinguished annoyance from material harm, balance
[4:15:40] existing land rights with new uses, measure impacts empirically
[4:15:45] not emotionally apply standards consistently. Washington
[4:15:49] wrote that liberty requires a spirit of accommodation and mutual
[4:15:54] concession. Local virtue means acknowledging that some lawful
[4:15:58] activities create discomfort. And the question is whether they unreasonably
[4:16:03] harm the community, not whether they offend preferences.
[4:16:07] the founders viewed property rights as essential not just
[4:16:11] to individuals, but to social stability. Land
[4:16:15] rous restrictions are virtuous only when they protect health and safety.
[4:16:19] prevent genuine nosis or harm, apply generally
[4:16:23] and predict it to the masses. And I've got too many pages.
[4:16:28] I thank you for your time. Thank you.
[4:16:34] brian c brian c
[4:16:38] 10 34 earls road. And uh, obviously earls road is
[4:16:42] not near walton road. I wanted to speak on behalf of the
[4:16:46] neighbors of walton road just to offer a perspective from one who
[4:16:51] has great value for our community. One of the refrains that I've
[4:16:55] often heard in relation to this is, well, you live in the country,
[4:16:59] what do you expect? One thing I've come to appreciate knowing
[4:17:03] people in our county is many of them who do shoot recreationally,
[4:17:08] I know that they will actually reach out to their neighbors on days or times
[4:17:12] when they intend to shoot. Just something along the lines of, hey, I'm gonna be
[4:17:16] shooting, uh, you guys got anything going on? I don't want to intrude on that, just
[4:17:21] as a matter of neighborly courtesy. And I think you would find that common
[4:17:25] throughout our entire community. That's something we value and why? Because
[4:17:30] we want to be good neighbors to one another, and we don't wanna do anything that's a detriment
[4:17:35] to just somebody's livelihood. And I sit here tonight listening to this now
[4:17:39] for, we've been here since five 30, a lot of us, and I wonder
[4:17:44] what causes a group like the walton road neighbors to unify like
[4:17:48] this and, and go to so many hours and links and come to these meetings
[4:17:52] and mobilize as they have in such a short amount of time with virtually
[4:17:57] no assistance from the developers. And the only conclusion
[4:18:01] I can come to is they know that this gun range
[4:18:05] will detrimentally impact their livelihood. Everything
[4:18:09] from safety, their children playing outside random
[4:18:14] gunfire. The idea of property values not being affected. I can tell
[4:18:18] you, and I would think many of us could, if I'm considering buying someone's
[4:18:22] property and I'm on site and all of a sudden I hear cascading gunfire and
[4:18:26] I ask someone showing me, what is that noise? Uh, what's that coming from? Is somebody
[4:18:30] just out shooting today? Oh no, that's, that's the gun range next door. Oh, what do they do
[4:18:34] this once every month? No, they do it every day from sunrise to
[4:18:38] sunset. I can tell you right now, the property value is gonna be detrimentally affected.
[4:18:42] so whether they stay, they have detrimental impacts if they try to leave, it's
[4:18:47] the same thing. So as you weigh all of these things, I just plead with you as
[4:18:51] one who doesn't live right there, just listen to these neighbors. Whatever
[4:18:56] economic boost or whatever that you'll hear about, weigh that against the detrimental
[4:19:00] impacts and it's not worth it to me to trample them underfoot
[4:19:04] and their concerns, the good neighbors of walton roads. So thank you.
[4:19:08] thank you justin. Lacey.
[4:19:14] justin had to go. I'm further down the list. Is it okay if I take his spot?
[4:19:19] I'm jad mylab. Sure. Okay,
[4:19:23] thank you. Um, and I'm chair,
[4:19:28] uh, kim commissioners. My name is jad mylab. I work for lux
[4:19:32] stone as land use and development manager. And I'm here today
[4:19:36] on behalf of luck to voice our support to virginia sports parks,
[4:19:40] uh, proposal on our property. Um, we believe that what
[4:19:44] vsp is proposing will create a place, uh, a meaningful place
[4:19:48] for the gland community and surrounding communities, uh, to get together, gather
[4:19:53] and enjoy the outdoors, create long-lasting, uh, uh, uh,
[4:19:58] memories with family and friends. Uh, and I believe these are some of the values
[4:20:02] that what this county's all about. We also trust that, uh,
[4:20:07] vsps leadership will manage our property and this project
[4:20:12] and a very high level of professionalism, safety, and respect
[4:20:16] to the community, to the neighbors, and to the environment and our
[4:20:20] property. As a matter of fact, in the early stages of talking to
[4:20:24] vsp and the board, when I was just representing lock stone and the real estate side,
[4:20:29] I was impressed by all the things that, that they talked about.
[4:20:34] the caring, you know, the mission, the things they would do to the
[4:20:38] property and in the community that I asked to be on the board of esp.
[4:20:42] and now I am one of, uh, uh, uh, the board members, uh, of
[4:20:47] esp, uh, hoping to, you know, get this through in, in,
[4:20:51] uh, uh, and actually, um, uh, get to see the site, uh, in action.
[4:20:55] um, as you all know as well, lux stone is, uh,
[4:21:00] uh, very, uh, keen on being a big part of the community
[4:21:04] and engaged in, uh, in the community. We also, uh, care about
[4:21:08] being good neighbors and we take pride of over 30,000 acres
[4:21:12] that we own across four states, uh, virginia and
[4:21:17] gland county, specifically being our home, uh, uh, turf. So
[4:21:21] after reviewing all the professional studies that we saw from noise
[4:21:26] testing to the, uh, uh, uh, tia and
[4:21:30] I personally attended the, uh, shooting demonstration on monday,
[4:21:34] um, we think that this will not impact the
[4:21:39] community. Uh, you know, I I heard a lot of concerns today,
[4:21:43] but we don't think that this is gonna be a negative impact. Um, uh, but
[4:21:47] the opposite, we think it's gonna be a v very positive thing in the community,
[4:21:51] and we don't, uh, think that it's gonna devalue our property. And for that,
[4:21:55] we're hoping that the approval of this and the execution will only impact lux
[4:21:59] stone's positive legacy that we, that we build, uh, anywhere
[4:22:04] we go. So I appreciate everybody's time and consideration to making
[4:22:08] this happen. Thank you all. Thank you.
[4:22:12] lonnie. Bryce,
[4:22:17] marcy reese.
[4:22:24] hello, my name's marcy reese. I live at 4 1 3 5 shannon hill road.
[4:22:30] I'm here to speak in favor of the vsp shooting park.
[4:22:35] I've been a archery coach for the last 20 years. I've
[4:22:39] been employed by usa archery and I'm a level four coach.
[4:22:44] I certify other coaches. I work with jmu, um,
[4:22:49] and I wanted to talk a little bit about safety and the benefits of the shooting
[4:22:53] sports and what it can do for children. Um,
[4:22:57] shortly, I wanted to also mention that somebody said something
[4:23:01] about busting the kids out. Uh, school kids. I've
[4:23:05] worked with collegiate for the last 10 years and steward school for the last six
[4:23:10] years, and they will definitely bust the kids out. They do it all the time.
[4:23:14] there's gonna be some tomorrow, by the way, at our place,
[4:23:19] uh, mostly the opposition to the programs has to do with
[4:23:23] fears about safety and certain things that's gonna happen
[4:23:28] or that they think may happen. Archery ranks as one of the safest
[4:23:32] recreational sports. The injury rates are extremely
[4:23:37] low at a 0.35 per 1000
[4:23:41] far below soccer, basketball, and even golf.
[4:23:46] the nas program, national archery in the school program, which
[4:23:50] has reached over 18 million students, reports zero accidents
[4:23:54] in its history. Sporting clays and youth shotgun programs
[4:23:59] emphasize rigorous safety training. The organizations
[4:24:03] like the scholastic clay target program and four h sports require
[4:24:07] certified instructors mandatory safety certification,
[4:24:12] structured supervision, background checks, uh,
[4:24:17] which result in incident rates comparable to
[4:24:21] or lower than other youth sports. All activities would follow
[4:24:25] strict protocols, certified coaches, one-on-one
[4:24:29] supervision for beginners protective gear.
[4:24:34] as a nonprofit program, they can
[4:24:39] proprietary safety and the education above profit mirroring
[4:24:43] successful models like usa archery's jo ad program.
[4:24:47] I have a team of jo ad kids. We're going to jmu in february,
[4:24:52] taking 22 kids to compete in indoor
[4:24:56] nationals. So wouldn't it be great to have a facility here in gland
[4:25:00] where we can draw people and these kids from all over the state to
[4:25:04] come here and learn about the shooting sports? Thank you.
[4:25:09] thank you. Thank you sonny williams.
[4:25:24] my name is sonny williams. I live at 46 0 5 walton road.
[4:25:28] uh, I've lived there for over 24 years. This area has remained very
[4:25:32] peaceful, quiet, it's just a good country life. But if this gun
[4:25:37] range gets approved, our lives will be changed.
[4:25:41] we will be forced to deal with thousands of gunshots daily and increase
[4:25:45] traffic. And this is coming from someone who works nights
[4:25:50] and I'm losing work tonight being here. Um,
[4:25:55] it's gonna be hard for me to sleep. Uh,
[4:26:00] the sound study that was done the other day,
[4:26:05] they say they didn't make much noise, but they did. I was at home.
[4:26:10] I was through all of it. Um,
[4:26:15] I want to ask y'all, how does this benefit the co the county?
[4:26:21] is there a better location? You gotta ask yourself that. It's gotta be,
[4:26:26] there's too many homes around this. Um,
[4:26:31] and then the new news of the alcohol is really disturbing.
[4:26:35] if they're promoting children coming to this busting children in, just as the lady just
[4:26:39] spoke, how is children supposed to be there with, with alcohol?
[4:26:45] how is that supposed to happen? I mean, I
[4:26:49] don't wanna send my child over there if they're sitting around drinking
[4:26:53] guns and alcohol. Just don't mix. That's my opinion.
[4:26:57] so I thank you for your time. Thank
[4:27:01] you. Joshua cather.
[4:27:07] joshua cather, 1750 walton store road.
[4:27:15] good evening, madam chair and commissioners referencing the guiding principles
[4:27:19] of gland's 2035 comp plan regarding land use, specifically to promote
[4:27:24] balanced development and preservation of rural character. Vsp as currently
[4:27:28] proposed is like an unbalanced equation. First from page two,
[4:27:32] it's harming the rural character of the community. Rural living is synonymous with sporadic
[4:27:36] hunting and recreational gunfire, not the daily chronic punctuation of it in your
[4:27:40] family homes. Second, from page two, my friends on
[4:27:45] the other side have provided no articulable contributions to the welfare of the walton road
[4:27:49] community. Only indeterminate reference to community bonding
[4:27:53] vsp is emphatically for the enjoyment of those who will travel to vsp, to the detriment
[4:27:57] of the community adjacent to facility. And third, from page three, quality
[4:28:02] of life should be retained or enhanced without equivocation. Have
[4:28:06] my friends proven this will not harm the immediate community in terms of lead traffic
[4:28:10] and noise. Vsp has not articulated or qualified what the
[4:28:14] increase to welfare of those living on walton will be as the comp plan directs.
[4:28:18] and likewise, my friends have not provided articulable increases to or retention of
[4:28:23] the quality of life of the walton community. Similar directives are found in gland
[4:28:27] county zoning ordinance governing conditional use permits. If this, if this equation is
[4:28:31] to be balanced, implementation of conditions found in the conditions and precedents
[4:28:35] submitted by ms. Dalton is a sat satisfactory solution. There's
[4:28:40] been a lot of emphasis on the youth centered mission of vsp and respectfully, it appears
[4:28:44] much like a guise given the incongruity with the operating hours that
[4:28:48] effectively prevent youth participation from some three quarters of operating hours
[4:28:53] each weekday during the academic year. Urge the commission to envision yourselves
[4:28:57] as in place members of the immediate walton road community and to impose the conditions
[4:29:02] found in the conditions and precedents submitted by ms. Dalton. Thank you for your time.
[4:29:07] thank you jerry weaver.
[4:29:18] good evening, madam chair and commissioners.
[4:29:22] my name is jerry weaver and I reside at 5,000 double
[4:29:26] eagle drive in the estates at royal virginia.
[4:29:31] I'm about approximately a mile and a half as the crow flies
[4:29:35] and noise travels from the proposed site.
[4:29:41] to date, vsp has not demonstrated in good faith that
[4:29:45] this project will not impact surrounding property values
[4:29:49] or diminished the use and enjoyment of nearby residential
[4:29:54] properties due to noise. No limits have
[4:29:58] been proposed on days of operation or hours of operation
[4:30:02] with shooting being proposed from daylight to dark seven days
[4:30:06] a week, 365 days a year. There's
[4:30:11] also no guarantee that vsp will be
[4:30:15] restricting the use of anything other than, uh, low charge
[4:30:19] ammunition or otherwise limiting what types of loads of
[4:30:24] ammunition may be used on site.
[4:30:28] further, vsp has conducted no professional noise study
[4:30:32] or credible simulation reflecting real world
[4:30:37] operating conditions, including shots from real
[4:30:41] shooting station placement and anticipated daily
[4:30:46] activity. Without this data, there is no
[4:30:50] reliable or accurate way to assess the true noise impact
[4:30:54] on nearby neighborhoods.
[4:30:59] vsp also provides or proposes shooting over wetlands
[4:31:03] without presenting any lead mitigation plans or
[4:31:07] water monitoring plans. There are no proposed
[4:31:12] setbacks or perimeter fencing to protect neighboring children,
[4:31:17] pets, or passing traffic as proposed. This
[4:31:21] facility represents a significant health and
[4:31:25] safety concern and would be an environmentally
[4:31:29] unfriendly neighbor in our surrounding communities.
[4:31:34] in addition, traffic congestion at the intersections of route
[4:31:39] 2 53 chopped road and walton road will
[4:31:43] worsen substantially. Three. Chopped road and walton
[4:31:47] road are already narrow roadways, effectively one
[4:31:51] and a half lanes. They have no center line or
[4:31:55] burn markings. Increased traffic will make these roads
[4:32:00] more dangerous for residents, commuters, and school
[4:32:04] buses alike. The traffic study provided is
[4:32:08] at best incomplete and requires further review
[4:32:13] and revision. Any one of these issues should
[4:32:17] alone be submission sufficient to deter or
[4:32:22] deny this permit taken together. They clearly
[4:32:26] justify denial unless substantial changes are made.
[4:32:32] in conclusion, I agree with the findings presented in the impact
[4:32:36] suitability study and respectively urge the commissioners
[4:32:41] to not to deny this application or at a
[4:32:45] minimum, require the conditions outlined in cu
[4:32:50] 20 25 0 0 0 12
[4:32:55] and the related conditions and procedures report submitted
[4:32:59] to the commission be adopted. Thank you. Thank you for your time.
[4:33:03] thank you. If stacy sson could come
[4:33:08] to the podium and then on the front row, alicia kaiser,
[4:33:12] jose leandro, sharon valencia, kara larson,
[4:33:16] caleb shortridge, phil marat, dave martin,
[4:33:20] and chris bracket. We will also need to take a little bit of a
[4:33:24] break, ms. Parker. Um, and maybe after this applicant speaks, we need to take
[4:33:28] a, take a five minute breather. Thank you. I appreciate that. Or applicant.
[4:33:33] I'm so sorry. Citizen . Thank you. I deny I
[4:33:37] withdraw my application. My apologies. . Good evening, madam chair
[4:33:41] and commissioners. My name is stacy sellon and I live at 41 21
[4:33:46] clay morris estates, which is a half mile from the proposed site. I, I
[4:33:50] agree with the entire substance of the community impact and site suitability report
[4:33:54] prepared by concerned neighbors of gland and louisa counties. And I urge the commission to deny
[4:33:58] the application. The gland county staff report prepared for this meeting
[4:34:02] identifies a number of outstanding concerns that remain unaddressed by bsp. Given this lack
[4:34:07] of basic information related to environmental impacts and mitigation plans,
[4:34:11] legitimate scientific sound studies and unaddressed traffic issues, the commission should
[4:34:15] minimally defer consideration until vsp can resolve these outstanding issues.
[4:34:20] I'd like to spend the remainder of my time discussing some very specific impacts that the proposed
[4:34:24] range will have on my agricultural activities related to beekeeping.
[4:34:28] I move to gland county specifically for the rural nature of the area and the clear appreciation
[4:34:32] for the benefits of supporting local agricultural endeavors. My beekeeping journey began
[4:34:37] in 2020 and my passion for beekeeping and its benefits to the survival of our food supply
[4:34:41] and the overall environmental benefits of pollinators continues to grow. As my a
[4:34:45] br expands. The goal is to offer local treatment-free honey to the larger gland community.
[4:34:50] that is a use that is both in concert with the intended land use for our area and
[4:34:54] in danger from the vsp proposal. Honeybees are known to forage up to five
[4:34:58] miles from their hive, but will look for the closest abundant sources of pollen, nectar,
[4:35:03] and water. The problem with lead shot being shot into this area
[4:35:07] is not just about the soil, but also the fine particulates and dust that will clinging
[4:35:11] to surrounding vegetation, contaminating forging areas, as well as the
[4:35:15] fine dust entering sources of water that will not only potentially contaminate wetlands
[4:35:19] and local wells, but also standing water used by bees and other insects and wildlife.
[4:35:24] the most recent scientific paper on this issue is entitled heavy metal pollution from a shooting range
[4:35:29] revealed by honeybees published november 25. They note that
[4:35:33] honeybees can be employed to detect small localized aerosol sources such as shooting ranges
[4:35:37] and that particles and components may be found in apiary products such as wax, proplus,
[4:35:42] and even honey with supporting studies from 2006 2015 and
[4:35:46] 2021. Additional agricultural disturbances include an existing gland
[4:35:50] business, our favorite newcastle b and berry farm located just across the road
[4:35:54] from me. Three three chopped, which has you pick no spray. Strawberries and honey produced on their
[4:35:58] property, both of which could be contaminated by the bsb project. Hg meats
[4:36:03] is located approximately a half mile from the proposed site and will potentially have leg contamination
[4:36:07] water sources, which would affect our local food supply relative to any animals processed at that
[4:36:12] facility. Given the comprehensive plans focus on agricultural and rural enhancement
[4:36:16] as well as the current zoning of the area, the commission should not approve any use that will
[4:36:20] not be in harmony with the existing uses. As my neighbors have made it abundantly clear
[4:36:25] this evening. The applicant has not proven the conditional use permit will not be injurious to
[4:36:29] the use and enjoyment of other property in the immediate vicinity for the purposes
[4:36:33] already permitted and therefore should be denied. And if anyone wanted to know about living
[4:36:37] next to a quarry, I used to live in chesterfield county, um, in the
[4:36:41] highlands community directly next to a quarry. It did not affect my life in any
[4:36:45] way. , thank you. Thank you.
[4:36:51] all right. Uh, we will take a five to seven minute
[4:36:55] recess. Thank you. , no specifics.
[4:37:06] oh,
[4:47:23] again, I'll be here past the 11th. 15 mm-hmm . Mm-hmm
[4:47:27] . Appreciate. Alright, good.
[4:47:31] let's hope we can get over this. Keep it going. You do what? You,
[4:47:35] you do you . I don't want
[4:47:41] that's great. Alicia kaiser 10.
[4:47:48] can I give it a minute?
[4:47:52] keep going. Okay. Jose leandro
[4:48:06] 600, but I, I believe it's less than 500 foot from the station.
[4:48:12] 'cause my house is like a hundred foot from the property line. And, uh, they
[4:48:16] try to propose this, uh, buffer, uh, protection. But
[4:48:20] how they gonna maintain this in the wintertime when this all the leaves fell
[4:48:24] down? You know, and I have three kids and they spend
[4:48:28] the most time on the outside, you know, and, uh,
[4:48:33] it's not safe because they want inspection. The ammo they bring
[4:48:37] in, you know, I attend this stuff before, you know, I, I
[4:48:41] I many times and I sponsor the am you know,
[4:48:45] buy like eight bucks, you know, 8,000 round. And, uh,
[4:48:49] we bring that thing in without inspection and burn
[4:48:53] everything in a couple hours, you know? And, uh,
[4:48:57] it's not safe. You know, if someone wanna bring their box shot, my kids can be dead right
[4:49:01] there or me. And, uh, it's
[4:49:05] how this is gonna work. It's too close to the house, you know? And,
[4:49:10] uh, I'm not, don't build a house yet, you know, I still
[4:49:14] have a pool to put over there how will be put a pool next to,
[4:49:18] you know, you're gonna be withdraw the water for you can avoid that noise, you
[4:49:22] know? And, uh, it's a lot of and, uh, mo
[4:49:26] stuff. I, I am, um, gonna bring the animals, like the horses already start
[4:49:30] fancy the proper, but it's, nobody's gonna bring the
[4:49:34] horses to live, you know, live next to the sugar range.
[4:49:38] you know, it's, I'm just trying to cover, you know, say what I, my
[4:49:42] concern. But my neighbors already bring everything, all the concerns, you know.
[4:49:47] but this question about safety, what they gonna build right there, the noise,
[4:49:51] it's my house is a building on top of the hill. I can hear the hallway, I can see the cars
[4:49:55] on the hallway, and they're gonna be between us. It's, I mean,
[4:50:00] it's not safe at all. I'm
[4:50:04] just high considerate you guys take that, you know, my safe because after
[4:50:08] my kids, you know, got killed right there would not point to do
[4:50:12] anything, you know, if this got approved, I cannot
[4:50:16] live there anymore. Nobody can live in the house with this noise with the
[4:50:20] 16 station. Shoot two times that, you know, I tend this
[4:50:24] all the time. I know how this work. It's pretty loud,
[4:50:28] you know, I just wanted to make sure you, you know, thank you guys for your
[4:50:32] time. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Sharon valencia.
[4:50:42] good evening, madam chair and commissioners. My name is sharon valencia.
[4:50:46] my husband and I live at 4 9 6 2 3 chop road
[4:50:50] in, uh, well, obviously in goochland, although it
[4:50:54] says louisa for mailing, um, we're like located
[4:50:58] at the corner of three chopped and walton road.
[4:51:03] um, the vsp proposed park
[4:51:07] is, um, a half a mile from my home. If I stand
[4:51:11] on my back deck, I can see the property. Um, which doesn't make
[4:51:15] me happy. Um, I'm a, I'm
[4:51:20] a gun owner, my husband is, my children are, their father
[4:51:24] is, he's a trooper. He taught them to shoot, he taught them hunting.
[4:51:29] he taught them gun safety, as I'm sure my, my rural,
[4:51:34] um, neighbors do the same with their children. So I
[4:51:38] know, I'm not sure whose children this is supposed to benefit.
[4:51:42] I can let you know that my thoroughbreds that
[4:51:46] I had, um, less than a year ago, did not take kindly
[4:51:50] to the hunting going on near us. But those are my neighbors
[4:51:54] and that's their property. So we lived with it. But now we're getting
[4:51:59] ready to bring ponies, which are even more high strung than, um,
[4:52:03] thoroughbreds, I think. And they're gonna react the same way
[4:52:07] as the livestock, the wildlife, the family pets.
[4:52:11] my neighbors, the neighbor's children. We moved out
[4:52:15] from glen allen to be rural,
[4:52:20] to not have to put curtains on, um, the windows. So that when we
[4:52:24] looked out at night, it was pitch black and limited noise,
[4:52:28] and we appreciate that. Um,
[4:52:33] you know, I got to choose my property, okay?
[4:52:37] and when I chose my property, I knew that I could hear I 64
[4:52:42] from my property. I knew that I could hear the car racing on the
[4:52:47] occasional saturday nights on broad street. I knew that, okay,
[4:52:51] what? I didn't know that there would be a non-profit,
[4:52:55] um, business coming in less than a half a mile from my home,
[4:53:00] which brings no revenue to gland county.
[4:53:05] so I just wanna know where the benefit is, and I stand with my
[4:53:10] neighbors on walton road when I say, please deny this application.
[4:53:14] thank you for your time. Thank you, kara
[4:53:19] larson. Good evening.
[4:53:23] my name is kara larson. I live at 4 6 3 8 walton road.
[4:53:27] and, uh, speaking of a nonprofit that will not be bringing
[4:53:32] economic revenue to the county, vsp as a nonprofit
[4:53:37] will be tax exempt since they are planning on selling
[4:53:41] firearms and renting firearms and selling munition, then there will be
[4:53:45] some sales tax revenue that will go into the county. But this is
[4:53:49] a measly amount. We've been told at neighborhood meetings that
[4:53:54] the park would bring in customers to gland's, current
[4:53:58] restaurants and hotels. To that, I say
[4:54:02] what hotels, because last time I checked, the closest
[4:54:06] chain hotel is either in short pump or in
[4:54:11] zions crossroads, 14 miles away. The closest equivalent
[4:54:15] is pleasant farm, llc, which is more akin to an airbnb
[4:54:20] and not likely to be used by groups, especially groups
[4:54:24] chaperoning children coming for a tournament or other such event
[4:54:28] at the sports park, a search on google go maps for nearby restaurants
[4:54:32] that were not gas stations, which while they do serve food and they
[4:54:37] do serve at haydenville very good food, they do not have seating.
[4:54:41] and as someone who has been a youth chaperone for youth events,
[4:54:45] you want those kids sat, you preferably do not want them sat in
[4:54:50] the rental car eating their food. And the nearest fast food
[4:54:54] restaurant would be dairy queen 10 miles away, or hardee's here
[4:54:58] at the courthouse 14 miles away. And again, zion's crossroads
[4:55:03] 14 miles away and out of the county is also another source
[4:55:07] of restaurant options. And so with all of
[4:55:11] these in mind, I do not see any way that there is
[4:55:16] actual measurable economic boost to
[4:55:20] the county because okay, they might be bringing in a few people to get
[4:55:24] gas, get a few snacks at the gas station. There might be people who would be going to
[4:55:28] the food trucks, invited to the sports park, but there's nothing in
[4:55:32] the area that would actually attract them. There is nothing in the area that would actually
[4:55:36] bring in reasonable county tax revenue. Thank you.
[4:55:41] thank you. Caleb shortridge.
[4:55:53] hello, my name is caleb shortridge. Uh, 2 4 8 7 juts bay road,
[4:55:58] palatan. Um, I can understand people's,
[4:56:03] uh, emotions and saying not in my backyard,
[4:56:07] but I did have a shooting range in my backyard. Uh, I
[4:56:11] grew up right next to where the palatan chapter four
[4:56:15] h used to practice. Um, there's a ski range and a
[4:56:19] rifle range about 500 yards away from my house I grew up
[4:56:23] in. And we didn't see this as an issue. Later, I would
[4:56:28] move on to join paan four h. I had to unfortunately
[4:56:32] sit on the waiting list for several years because we were very limited in
[4:56:36] facilities. So I see the opportunity that the sports park
[4:56:41] can bring to the gland community that would allow, uh,
[4:56:45] possibly four h kids, boy scouts, et cetera, to
[4:56:50] use this facility and bring more kids into the shooting sports. Something
[4:56:54] that's very impactful to my life. I shot, uh, competitively in
[4:56:58] high school, took that into collegiate, um, and just
[4:57:03] unfathomable about of, um, life lessons
[4:57:07] that I've learned through the shooting sports. And I would hope the same opportunity
[4:57:12] would be afforded to other kids. So there is a benefit in
[4:57:16] this sports park. There may be inconveniences
[4:57:20] as any project may experience, but I want you
[4:57:24] to understand that there will be an impact to the community in a
[4:57:28] positive manner. Um, so thank you for your time.
[4:57:32] thank you, uh, phil murray.
[4:57:42] good evening, madam chair and members of the, uh,
[4:57:46] commission. My name is phil murray, and I reside at 1 2 8 6 7
[4:57:51] holly lane in mannequin.
[4:57:55] I appreciate the opportunity, I appreciate the opportunity to speak
[4:58:00] on this project brought forth by virginia sports park, and I'll
[4:58:04] speak on the issue of hours of operation for
[4:58:08] this proposed facility. There seems to be
[4:58:12] continued confusion about what the hours are.
[4:58:17] operating hours are not the same as shooting hours.
[4:58:21] the facility needs time to set up before shooting and
[4:58:25] clean up after shooting is ceased. Shooting hours
[4:58:29] are tuesday through sunday, 9:00 am to sunset.
[4:58:37] there is no nighttime shooting, and it's not dawn to
[4:58:41] dusk. There is no shooting 365
[4:58:46] days a year that we've heard so much of no
[4:58:51] shooting. 365 days a year. Sporting clays are closed,
[4:58:56] um, to the public on mondays, which is reserved
[4:59:00] for tournaments only. And should there be a tournament,
[4:59:04] it usually lasts two hours and is generally scheduled in the mornings.
[4:59:12] the facility will be closed on new year's day, thanksgiving day,
[4:59:17] christmas and easter. It will be open
[4:59:22] on memorial day, labor day, veterans day and
[4:59:26] president's day.
[4:59:32] there seems to be a misconception that sporting clays,
[4:59:36] sporting clay parks produce a continuous barrage of
[4:59:40] gunfire from morning to dusk, 365 days
[4:59:44] a year. That could be, that could, that could not be further
[4:59:49] from the truth. Perhaps the best comparative
[4:59:53] analysis of a sporting clay park is a golf course
[4:59:57] similar to a golf course. A sporting clay park sees a variance
[5:00:02] of attendance during weekdays as compared to traffic inter,
[5:00:06] uh, is intermittent during weekdays, and shows somewhat increase
[5:00:10] during the weekend. A typical round of sporting
[5:00:14] clays takes a person approximately two hours. Usually
[5:00:19] the patron departs shortly after completing the course. Now, as
[5:00:23] a result, traffic is anticipated to be light or at minimum,
[5:00:29] it is my understanding that vsp for projects
[5:00:33] 20 to 25 patrons during the weekday and 40
[5:00:38] to 70 during the week, uh, weekend day.
[5:00:42] additionally, during winter months on inclement weather,
[5:00:47] inclement weather days, statistically the activity
[5:00:52] of sporting clay courses is much less
[5:00:56] and is weather dependent. Thank you for the opportunity
[5:01:00] to speak to you tonight, and I urge you to vote for this,
[5:01:05] uh, this evening to approve this project. Thank you very much.
[5:01:09] thank you
[5:01:18] members of the planning commission. Thank you for the opportunity to speak this evening.
[5:01:23] my name is dave martin, 7 7 0 1 hollands road in henrico in
[5:01:28] from henrico. I'm here speaking in support of the
[5:01:32] virginia sports park project as an eagle scout,
[5:01:37] a youth services provider, and someone who believes deeply
[5:01:41] in the value of outdoor programs for young people
[5:01:45] and families. Growing up, my summer camp was at
[5:01:49] boy scout camp brady saunders up the road.
[5:01:54] that was where I first shot my, I first shot my bow, and I first shot my,
[5:01:59] I shot my first bow and arrow and fired my first shotgun.
[5:02:04] scouting taught me responsibility, disciplines, safety,
[5:02:08] conservation, and leadership. Those lessons were
[5:02:12] not learned in a classroom. They certainly were not learned on
[5:02:17] tiktok or nintendo. They were learned outdoors under
[5:02:21] supervision with structure, accountability, and purpose.
[5:02:26] goochland is one of those special places where people thrive on enjoying
[5:02:30] the outdoors, horseback riding, fishing, hunting, farming
[5:02:36] pursuits that bring families together and create lifelong memories.
[5:02:41] I believe we need more opportunities for grandparents, parents, and
[5:02:45] children to make those memories together, using the
[5:02:49] natural resources of this county in responsible ways.
[5:02:54] virginia sports park offers this opportunity that opportunity
[5:02:58] facilities like this build lifelong lessons through discipline, sport,
[5:03:03] sports, such as arch archery and shooting sports. They
[5:03:07] emphasize safety, focus, and patience.
[5:03:11] they teach respect and personal responsibility.
[5:03:16] these are not casual activities. They are structured,
[5:03:20] supervised, and professionally managed facilities like this
[5:03:25] are essential. As someone who works with youth, I can tell
[5:03:29] you that not every child thrives on traditional team sports
[5:03:33] programs like this reach kids who need a different path to
[5:03:37] confidence and growth. They provide belonging, skill
[5:03:41] building and mentorship in a controlled environment.
[5:03:46] I would also, oh, that's it for that. I would also like to respectfully
[5:03:50] address the question before you tonight. I urge this commission to
[5:03:54] make a decision and not defer. Deferral does not help the
[5:03:58] youth and families who could benefit from this project. It does not help
[5:04:02] the applicant, and it does not serve the public interest.
[5:04:07] scouting taught me that leadership requires the courtesy to act,
[5:04:11] to make decisions based on standards, evidence, and fairness,
[5:04:16] and to do so in a timely way so others can benefit.
[5:04:20] my understanding is that the commission will determine whether this project meets
[5:04:24] zoning standards and serves the public fairly and
[5:04:28] consistently. Making a decision allows the process to move forward
[5:04:33] through its national natural conclusion. That is how I tru
[5:04:37] trust in local government is maintained. Thank you for
[5:04:41] your time and service. Thank you,
[5:04:45] chris bracket. And then if we could have to the front,
[5:04:49] morris grimes, mike callan, wayne menti,
[5:04:54] herb tci jr. Manny alvarez, walt raymond.
[5:05:01] wow, good evening. Almost morning .
[5:05:05] um, I didn't prepare anything tonight. Uh, I I I just wanted
[5:05:09] to, uh, voice my opposition of this. Uh, I'm sorry, I
[5:05:13] I didn't start with my address. So, chris, bracket , 4 0 5 0 lake killarney.
[5:05:18] I am roughly within two miles of the proposed, uh, facility.
[5:05:22] um, you know, I'm a family of seven. I have five kids under
[5:05:26] the age of eight when they can shoot a gun, every single one of 'em will.
[5:05:31] maybe not with beer in the facility, but, uh, at some
[5:05:35] point, I, I, I really think that, um,
[5:05:40] I, I really think there's a great idea, but where it's going to,
[5:05:44] you, you hear tonight, I am so proud of my fellow neighbor. Everybody has come
[5:05:48] together. I'm meeting new people. This is just not the right area.
[5:05:52] there. There has to be a better solution. I don't know how to provide
[5:05:56] that, but there's just, this is, to them, it is just a business deal.
[5:06:01] they're all gonna go back to richmond midlothian. They're gonna go all over. This is our lives,
[5:06:06] you know, this is will impact us forever. And this is generations of family
[5:06:10] with, you know, with multiple kids everywhere. I, I, I just
[5:06:15] ask and plead that there has to be a better option.
[5:06:19] and I, I, I really hope that you, uh, reject this proposal.
[5:06:23] thank you very much for your time. Thank you.
[5:06:27] I'm morris grimes.
[5:06:31] uh, I'm definitely not morris rims madam chair. Um, morris rims and mike colon
[5:06:36] are with glin gun works. Their alarm just went off and they had to run right out
[5:06:40] the door. They're asking if they, they're coming back, if they could just still speak
[5:06:44] and reserve their time if, if the public comment is still open at that time. Yes. Thank you. I appreciate
[5:06:48] it. Thank you. Um, wayne menti,
[5:06:54] herb deci.
[5:07:00] I'm herb deci jr. From 1 3 9 3 0 elm
[5:07:04] stead road, middle . I had prepared notes, but
[5:07:08] I'm now gonna speak more or less, but extemporaneously commenting
[5:07:12] on some of the things I've already heard tonight. Okay. We
[5:07:16] talked about children not being available. I'm a member of cavalier. We
[5:07:20] have plenty of children. I don't know where they're getting them from.
[5:07:25] I don't know how they get there. But when I go out to shoot, I see children,
[5:07:29] groups of children, organized groups of children. Okay?
[5:07:35] so we have got 'em. I suppose you would be able to get
[5:07:39] them too. We talked about safety.
[5:07:43] safety has come up several times. Do you think
[5:07:48] we want to be unsafe to each other? We're the
[5:07:52] ones standing right there. You think that we're going to
[5:07:56] let, we should never let a, any projectile
[5:08:00] coming out of our, our guns go off the property. Now,
[5:08:04] there was some talk about that earlier today, but I, I can assure
[5:08:08] you, it's not going to happen. We don't want it to happen.
[5:08:15] okay? Now, a lot of this comes down to
[5:08:20] noise. And we want this study. We want that study.
[5:08:25] this is my fourth time getting involved in something like this.
[5:08:29] okay? Noise is calculated on log grid measured
[5:08:33] on a logarithmic scale. It's nonlinear. So it's not, whether
[5:08:37] it's 37 or 42 or 52 or whatever it is,
[5:08:43] it's because now you can stand in your backyard. All we're doing is
[5:08:47] assigning a number to what you've already heard, or you can
[5:08:51] easily hear, hear did you hear the noise?
[5:08:55] okay. Now,
[5:09:00] some comments about drinking. We're not gonna drink and shoot guns
[5:09:05] at the same time. We talked about fundraisers. Some of the fundraisers
[5:09:09] being done, were done by the goochland rotary club, but they were done somewhere
[5:09:13] else. I have to be quick. Okay? Comments were
[5:09:18] made of shooting underpowered, uh, a low powered ammunition. And the
[5:09:22] example was shooting high powered ammunition. Most people don't shoot,
[5:09:26] they shoot. The more of 'em will shoot low than high. I shoot one ounce.
[5:09:31] okay, let me see what else I've got here.
[5:09:35] I hear the, here are the ra, the, the term gun range used gun range, gun range,
[5:09:40] gun range that has specific meaning to people who actually
[5:09:44] shoot on gun ranges. This is not a gun range in the traditional
[5:09:48] sense in that we're not shooting rifles and pistols, which have
[5:09:52] different sound characteristics. Uh,
[5:09:57] 360 shot fall. We're generally shooting
[5:10:01] within a confined area. You can't, you step into a shoot box
[5:10:05] and you can't turn, can't turn with the gun. You can't get it
[5:10:09] around behind you. You load when you're standing in the chute box.
[5:10:13] there's a, I understand. Thank you all for your consideration,
[5:10:18] . I appreciate all of y'all that have spoken tonight, even though I
[5:10:22] disagree with many of you. Thank you. Y'all have a nice night. Thank you.
[5:10:27] manny alvarez. How does you know yet?
[5:10:34] shocked madam chair, members of the commission, thank you for being
[5:10:38] out here. I know you're tired. I just want to, we heard a lot about
[5:10:42] ora packs this evening, and I was in your seat when
[5:10:46] on the board of supervisors when that hearing came up. And if,
[5:10:50] uh, you're going to try to beat our record, you need to be here till about 2:30 am mm.
[5:10:55] hopefully you're not . But anyway, I, I had some notes, but I want
[5:10:59] to respond to some of the things that I heard tonight. One of them
[5:11:03] was, or packs, um, or packs.
[5:11:07] we put a lot of restrictions on it, and because of that, it never
[5:11:12] happened. If I had to go back and do it again, I would not have voted
[5:11:16] so many restrictions into it because I thought it was a good facility.
[5:11:20] but we kind of heard the, a lot of the emotional comments from
[5:11:24] people. Nobody would've heard orax, maybe paan
[5:11:28] might have. Um, the, mr.
[5:11:33] dyson did a great job with his data, but
[5:11:37] one of the things he mentioned was a lot of the other ranges, um,
[5:11:41] skit shooting ranges were built when there were no homes around them.
[5:11:46] yet, hundreds of homes were built around the ranges. So that, that
[5:11:50] means that the range itself didn't affect property values and didn't scare
[5:11:54] people from building next to them. Um, one thing
[5:11:58] that I have fought for, and I think you guys agree with, and
[5:12:02] I know you do, is we need to preserve the rural nature of the county.
[5:12:07] and in order to do that, we need to allow people to have some value
[5:12:11] from their land. Farming is not, uh, an easy,
[5:12:15] uh, profession. I'm also a member of cavalier. Uh, we've
[5:12:20] heard a lot about comparisons. In ca cavalier, you can shoot
[5:12:24] cannons pretty much. They have a 1500 foot range,
[5:12:28] so you have to shoot something with, with quite a lot of power. And there are
[5:12:32] many neighbors on the, on the road, in and around the, the location.
[5:12:37] um,
[5:12:41] uh, one of the things that I heard a few people mention is, uh, the
[5:12:45] president's setting. As you know, zoning cases are individual
[5:12:50] cases. They do not set precedent. Another,
[5:12:54] um, skit shooting range across the street from this one might
[5:12:58] not be approved because by then you have another one to compare with.
[5:13:02] um, and so and so, so that's not an issue. And,
[5:13:06] um, lead, there are, I think, nine
[5:13:11] abandoned lead mines in gland. Those are mines
[5:13:15] that are underground. They're a lot closer to the water tables than, than
[5:13:19] any shot. And when I was campaigning for office back in 2011,
[5:13:25] so 15 years ago, one of the things that I heard from a lot of people was,
[5:13:29] why don't we have a place where we can shoot our guns? Not everybody in gland has
[5:13:33] 5, 10, 15 acres and they're not allowed to shoot in their backyard. So
[5:13:38] I'll just leave you with that. Thank you for doing your job.
[5:13:42] I wouldn't want it today. So, , thank you,
[5:13:48] walt raymond. And then if carmela bear, landon
[5:13:53] bear or ryan brown would like to come to the front.
[5:13:57] good evening everybody. Uh, my name is walt raymond. I live at 46 23
[5:14:01] park avenue in richmond. Uh, and I just want to express my support for
[5:14:05] bsp. And you'll, excuse me, 'cause I'm on my phone. My printer wasn't working.
[5:14:10] uh, the subject property is located on walton road adjacent to 64, consisting
[5:14:14] of approximately 85 of almost 700 acres that lux stone has there, which
[5:14:18] is currently permitted for a quarry. It's currently
[5:14:23] zoned a two in the surrounding area, is characterized by
[5:14:27] low density rule uses, including agriculture, residential,
[5:14:31] and recreational activity. Consistent with the
[5:14:35] county's rule and use framework, it immediately
[5:14:40] signals compatibility. For this use, not an exception.
[5:14:45] the intent of the agricultural district is to preserve rural land,
[5:14:49] allow working landscapes and accommodate agricultural and recreational uses
[5:14:53] that are compatible with load density development. The size
[5:14:57] of this parcel, its setbacks, topography, and existing vegetation
[5:15:03] and, uh, natural buffering that supports compatibility with surrounding properties.
[5:15:08] the proposed use is organized, supervised, and limited in scope,
[5:15:12] distinguishing it from unmanaged or, um, intensive
[5:15:16] commercial activity. This is exactly how the gland
[5:15:20] staff describes acceptable rule use.
[5:15:29] excuse me, I lost my place.
[5:15:35] this is a limited structured and supervised recreational use with defined
[5:15:39] hours, condition, and conditions. It is not an open access commercial operation
[5:15:44] and scale intentionally constrained to remain compatible with
[5:15:48] the surrounding area. Keep in mind that, uh, we,
[5:15:52] that archery for the youth will be a significant part of this project
[5:15:56] and will have no impact at all on the surrounding area. Besides bringing youth, uh, both
[5:16:00] education, um, and an outlet besides a nintendo
[5:16:05] or getting outside and the outdoors, the application
[5:16:09] includes specific conditions regarding, um, hours, frequency,
[5:16:14] supervision and mitigation. Those conditions provide enforceable limits and
[5:16:18] give the county ongoing oversight. Vsp has
[5:16:22] responded to the neighbors who are concerned by ensuring that the concerns are
[5:16:26] addressed through reasonable conditions and obje and objectable standards, while
[5:16:30] also recognizing that zoning anticipates lawful rule activity
[5:16:35] may not be universally preferred. As far as establishing
[5:16:39] a precedent is concerned. This reinforces the principle that rural
[5:16:43] recreational uses are evaluated based on zoning intent and
[5:16:48] evidence, not opposition alone. Each further application would still
[5:16:52] need to be judged on its own merit denial would require fi
[5:16:56] uh, findings to the use fails, excuse me,
[5:17:00] findings that use the fails to meet zoning standards or
[5:17:04] creates unreasonable impacts by supported by evidence. Absent that
[5:17:08] denial risk, inconsistent inconsistency with past practices
[5:17:12] and zoning intent. I'll stop there 'cause it's late. Thank you guys for your time. Thank you.
[5:17:19] carmela beer. Landon beer,
[5:17:25] ryan brown, um, and morris grimes
[5:17:30] or mike callan.
[5:17:42] good evening. Appreciate everyone staying late. Uh, I'm here to speak
[5:17:46] as a, I'm sorry. My name is mike kalan and I'm 29 78
[5:17:50] river road west. Um, I'm here to speak as a business owner in the area.
[5:17:54] uh, and the impact for businesses, uh, I own gland gun works
[5:17:58] and as a business owner, I obviously, I see this as being a, a big positive to
[5:18:03] our industry. Um, I'm an an avid clay shooter.
[5:18:07] uh, I love archery. And if many people have mentioned, um,
[5:18:11] I think the archery side is getting overlooked because archery is such a, a great
[5:18:16] resource for, for children, uh, and adults alike. It teaches, uh,
[5:18:20] a lot of great things about, um, safety and
[5:18:24] structure and things of that nature. And I think this would be a, a great, uh, asset
[5:18:28] to the county, um, with us out, not having to take our business outside
[5:18:32] of the county. Uh, my family's been in goland since day
[5:18:36] one. Uh, we still own and operate a family farm here in goland, and it's something
[5:18:40] that we take a lot of pride in. So seeing this stuff coming to gland county and having
[5:18:44] a place for children to learn firearm safety. I
[5:18:48] remember the good old days when we used to have gun racks coming on our, in our trucks, going to to
[5:18:52] gland middle school, and we got the day off or reverend day hunting season. And that stuff is
[5:18:57] just not taught anymore. And having a place like this where children can learn proper gun
[5:19:01] safety, um, proper gun handling, I think the,
[5:19:05] the benefits of those things outweigh the negatives. Um, children need
[5:19:09] to learn about firearms, you know, especially if you live in a rural area where people are out shooting.
[5:19:14] we see a big problem in the hunting world with, with
[5:19:18] gun safety. We see kids are, they're, they're not using proper
[5:19:22] practices. And I think it's because of a lack of education. I don't know the,
[5:19:27] the, the gentlemen that are starting this very well. I just know them just from, from coming here. But
[5:19:31] what I've, I've heard multiple times is safety, safety, safety. And as a father of
[5:19:35] three sons, I love that there's somebody else out that wants to teach safety to our
[5:19:39] children for guns. Teach 'em a sport. That's a great sport. It's a healthy sport
[5:19:43] to get 'em out. Walking around on trails and shooting guns and
[5:19:48] shooting archery. Um, it's just a, a fantastic thing and it, it teaches so
[5:19:52] many good things. Um, really that, that, that was all I had. So that's my
[5:19:56] time. Thank you. Thank you.
[5:20:04] would anyone else like to speak ?
[5:20:10] I'm jim christian. I'm, I live at 1950 cartersville road, mineral
[5:20:15] address. I'm two miles north of this location.
[5:20:19] and lemme tell you how the sound travels a few times a month when the wind's
[5:20:23] right, I can hear the interstate like it's 500 yards away
[5:20:27] and it is gonna be a noise concern for oseland because when we're shooting on
[5:20:31] our farm over there, I'm over a hundred acre farm. When we're shooting over there, I got a
[5:20:35] friend that lives over here just, uh, east of haydenville
[5:20:39] fire department. He calls me up, he says, you guys are shooting again. He can hear us
[5:20:44] two miles, two and a half miles to his house. I know exactly because I got an app on my
[5:20:48] phone. He tells how far these distances are and I checked it before I got here.
[5:20:52] he's two and a half miles away. He can hear us shooting s***t. So you can speak
[5:20:56] about a half mile all you want, put some berms up. You're not gonna stop this sound
[5:21:00] and it's gonna hurt your county because most of the time the wind's carrying back
[5:21:05] into the county, carrying onto this side, not north wind. Like I get when
[5:21:09] I can rarely hear the interstate. Most of the time I'll be lucky in my house, it won't
[5:21:13] be that noisy. And as far as the creek, it comes across our property.
[5:21:18] deep creek does. And you guys are wasting your money
[5:21:22] if you're gonna put that much lead dust on top of the ground. It's coming in that creek and that
[5:21:26] creek has a lot of flow. And, uh, I'm gonna just call the
[5:21:30] epa and put them on it. 'cause I don't want it, I don't want the noise pollution. I hate to see
[5:21:34] this. The only people I see coming up here that are in favor, they don't wanna live here.
[5:21:38] so your county's not benefiting at all. This is, uh, you really ought to vote
[5:21:42] for it, like you live 500 yards away because
[5:21:46] it's detrimental to your county. Thank you. Thank you.
[5:21:53] would anyone else like to speak? I,
[5:21:59] all right, I will now close the public comment period.
[5:22:04] um, okay.
[5:22:09] um, would the applicant like to, to speak or do, uh,
[5:22:14] any, any last comments before we we start to comment?
[5:22:32] I just had a couple of closing comments. Um, I know it's
[5:22:36] been a very late night for everybody, and we appreciate your time. Um, uh,
[5:22:40] I did get a message from ryan brown, who is the head of the division of
[5:22:45] wildlife resources, and he just wanted to relate to you that if you have any
[5:22:49] questions about partnering with certain programs that, uh, dwr
[5:22:53] was looking to program with us, he's happy to answer those questions. He was here to basically
[5:22:58] advise the, the panel of that. Um, but he
[5:23:02] unfortunately had to leave. He has a meeting in the morning at seven o'clock in richmond.
[5:23:07] um, I just wanted to recap pretty
[5:23:11] much and just say that, you know, there's a lot that was put out, and I
[5:23:15] honestly tell you that I think my brain is fried, and I don't think I could address every rebuttal that
[5:23:19] that was there. But generally speaking, uh, I would say
[5:23:23] the, you know, we have conducted a professional sound
[5:23:27] study that is in front of you, and I know that we, we sent it to you as soon as we got
[5:23:31] it. So we urge you to take a look at that as well.
[5:23:36] uh, we have, uh, basically when it comes to environmental,
[5:23:40] uh, as mr. Lifer said earlier that this is an issue of
[5:23:44] basically to look at whether or not this is the right
[5:23:49] use for the zoning. We will be governed by
[5:23:53] agencies moving forward in the pod phase. In the, in the site plans, there
[5:23:57] will be, uh, agencies that we have to report to get their approval on this.
[5:24:02] so this, with all respect, I say this, I ask that this is
[5:24:07] probably not the place where you make a decision on lead or you
[5:24:11] make a, uh, and I do urge you to look at the noise. Um,
[5:24:16] having said that, I I, I'm happy to answer any questions that I possibly can at this point,
[5:24:20] and I'm sure you all want to go home as well, but if you have questions, we can
[5:24:24] try to address it for you.
[5:24:28] well, one of the things I'm wondering about is what are the hours, or
[5:24:33] not necessarily the hours, but the days of operation, we are
[5:24:37] actually being asked to approve here. I mean, I, I, I happy to
[5:24:41] ask you that. I mean, I hear that mondays are off, or is that, are seven days
[5:24:45] a week? What? No. So what's going on? So, great question. Lemme
[5:24:49] clarify that for you. Yeah, so let me just leave monday off for just one second and
[5:24:53] address tuesday through sunday first. Alright. Is it what? Okay. Yeah. So our,
[5:24:58] what we have responded to the initially submitted and then also responded to the county.
[5:25:03] and we have seceded in some, some of the timings and everything as well. Uh,
[5:25:07] tuesday through sunday is what we're proposing coming back 9:00 am till sunset.
[5:25:12] all right. Shooting hours, that's what we're talking about. Shooting hours.
[5:25:16] we have to cease shooting before it gets dark, pretty
[5:25:20] much. Mm-hmm . Um, mondays sporting clays close to
[5:25:24] the public, just tournaments, then solely reserved for the
[5:25:28] tournament. Okay. Tournaments we're gonna have. The tournament
[5:25:32] could happen most of the time. It happens in the morning, and if it happens it's two hours. There
[5:25:37] may be an afternoon, but we're not, we've also succeeded saying we're not gonna do two tournaments
[5:25:41] on a monday. So there'll be one tournament, majority of them being
[5:25:45] in the mornings, and it's reserved for that. Okay. Alright. That helps. Thanks.
[5:25:49] thank you. . Could you clarify the difference between
[5:25:54] a tournament and an event, and would you have events on monday? Also,
[5:26:00] events are generally, uh, what fundraisers?
[5:26:04] corporate events, uh, uh, let's say fundraisers
[5:26:08] such as, uh, charitable events, uh, for the rotary, for
[5:26:12] any youth organizations, basically something like that. Uh, tournament
[5:26:17] is a sanction tournament, for example, by the nsca. So national sporting
[5:26:21] clay association, they generally are
[5:26:25] and can be sometimes larger, sometimes not. Can be, they can be 60, they
[5:26:29] can be more. The thing about nsca sanctioned tournaments is that
[5:26:33] we're not guaranteed to, uh, tournaments from them. They get
[5:26:37] together. So almost like they're dishing out pieces of the pie almost on a monthly basis.
[5:26:42] so if you have about seven sporting clay ranges, uh, within a few hours
[5:26:46] in this area, they're gonna get divvied up. We may get one a month,
[5:26:50] and if we don't get that, we may get one every two months. So
[5:26:55] that's where that comes in basically is, is, is a sanctioned tournament.
[5:27:02] fundraisers and general events are always gonna be smaller than, basically
[5:27:08] they're usually 125 or less. Generally much smaller than that usually. Alright. Are
[5:27:12] those monday activities though, or are those the tuesday through sunday activities? Those are generally
[5:27:16] tuesday through sunday activation. Okay. Now, in the event, so monday is only
[5:27:20] these tournaments, it's tournament. We have, we have asked that if, for example,
[5:27:24] there is an event that can only happen, we would seek
[5:27:28] a permission from the county on that. Alright. A non tournament event
[5:27:33] that if somebody wants to hold and it's not something that is, they'll call
[5:27:37] us, uh, thursday and say we want to have it on monday. This is well planned
[5:27:41] out usually in advance. So we would seek approval on something like that.
[5:27:47] does that answer your question? Yes, thank you. You, would you speak to intentions
[5:27:51] with alcohol and how that would be managed? I heard that concern.
[5:27:56] good question. Um, if you go to, uh, a handful
[5:28:00] of places, um, where alcohol is not served
[5:28:05] while they're shooting going on, first and foremost, just to be clear about that, we're not walking
[5:28:09] around like bunch of rednecks walking with a can in our
[5:28:13] hand shooting with guns on our hips. That's not what happens. What
[5:28:17] happens is generally if there is, if there is state controls,
[5:28:21] that, and the second thing is this. There has to be a, we pulled
[5:28:25] a day permit, uh, uh, day license, excuse me, by the, from the a,
[5:28:30] b, c. There are three commissioners that sit on the a, b, c commission. So it
[5:28:34] is not an easy thing to get all the time. If there
[5:28:38] is this a, let's just say eli lilly wishes, or carl max
[5:28:42] wishes to hold a corporate event, they have 50 people coming for teamwork.
[5:28:46] they will have a round shooting, and then after that, after shooting
[5:28:51] ceases, they'll be served if the, whatever they, they're basically they
[5:28:55] want at that point. Most of this is something that we don't get our
[5:28:59] hands in. This will be done by outside vendors.
[5:29:04] so the outside vendors lay, say a food truck that is licensed to sell alcohol
[5:29:09] may show up. Alright. So you are not planning on pursuing a, a,
[5:29:13] a, uh, alcohol license. If the state says
[5:29:17] that even for someone else to come in and serve, that you have to get a day license, then we
[5:29:21] will get a day license at that point. Alright. Okay.
[5:29:31] talk to me about the, um, the, the load,
[5:29:36] um, concerns with the, was it seven eights, uh, versus,
[5:29:40] uh, one one and an eighth? One and an eighth? Good question section. Yeah, it was
[5:29:44] on my list to discuss about rebuttals and I, I, again, I no, you're good. Thank you for reminding
[5:29:49] me of that. The seven, eight and one
[5:29:53] ounce are the two we shot. So the contrary to the one photo that was shown,
[5:29:57] we shot two loads and we sent the picture to
[5:30:02] I think miss sherry. And, uh, mr. Kim, uh, had the photo of that.
[5:30:06] those are the most popular
[5:30:10] loads used on a sporting clay course. And I'll tell you why that is.
[5:30:16] you have a lot of people that show up with shotguns that
[5:30:20] are not $200 shotguns. They might be 80,
[5:30:24] $90,000 shotguns. You, you will never
[5:30:28] see that person put one and an eighth load in there.
[5:30:32] the one and eighth load is the range maximum.
[5:30:37] could someone use it? Sure. Are you all of a sudden gonna jump
[5:30:41] outta your seat, say, oh my god, what was that? No, but the,
[5:30:45] the most common are seven eights and one ounce.
[5:30:49] and that's what, that's basically what is used. So what we wanted to do
[5:30:54] was to do a realistic live demonstration. And that is
[5:30:58] the two most common loads. But we picked the worst conditions,
[5:31:03] which was the coldest day. No leaves, no burns, no construction at all. So,
[5:31:07] so noise obviously would travel more at that point.
[5:31:11] was its, was it advantageous of you to do the lightest
[5:31:16] load or should it have been the heaviest load, though? Not
[5:31:20] most common could happen
[5:31:25] when you did your demonstration. When we did our demonstration, we also
[5:31:29] utilized the one ounce, which is used probably we
[5:31:33] use seven eights and, and, and one ounce. That is the
[5:31:37] most common that is used out there. But if you look up, if you just
[5:31:42] were to do the anatomy of a shotgun shell and it's load, if you were
[5:31:46] to google that, maybe in the first or second article that pops up,
[5:31:50] you'll see seven, eights, and one ounce. The most traditional
[5:31:54] and commonly used loads that are on there. So yes, we wanted to
[5:31:58] use what's going to be used most often. We can't
[5:32:02] stop somebody from using one and one eight because it's a realistic load, for example.
[5:32:07] now probably the percentage of people using that load
[5:32:11] is low. The pe the percentage of people using a combined seven eights and one
[5:32:15] ounce is incredibly high. I would say probably in excess of 70%.
[5:32:20] and that's a speculation. I have not pulled data on that. That's without
[5:32:24] pulling data. Sure. Thank you. Yes,
[5:32:28] I, I do agree that I, I think it would've been best if you brought
[5:32:32] out the, the, the baddest permissible load.
[5:32:36] not the most common load, if I may. Uh, it's actually a good point. In hindsight,
[5:32:41] we look back, I think it may not be a bad idea to see how much noise
[5:32:45] that would ed. Yeah, yeah, that's, and I, I'm not sure how much difference there
[5:32:49] is, but it did sound like, I mean, I was standing with you when the neighbor was shooting
[5:32:53] and you were saying that can't be permissible load. So
[5:32:57] you know what I said, uh, on that, that was they were shooting from high
[5:33:02] ground. That's right. You, they're shooting in our direction more
[5:33:06] or less high ground. When we shot, you were down in the bowl. We were in the
[5:33:10] bowl, we shot at the also from the closest station. Right. But we
[5:33:14] shot out toward the away shooting away makes that big
[5:33:18] of a difference. Yeah. I I I, yeah, I get it. Yeah. So I, and I would say,
[5:33:22] in order to scientifically maybe answer that question, if I'm gonna put our
[5:33:26] acoustic expert on the spot to say, hey, we, this is
[5:33:30] what we measured, and if you used from a one ounce to a
[5:33:35] went to a one in one eight ounce, this could be the
[5:33:39] possible decibel rating increase. I, if I could ask mr. Thomas
[5:33:44] if he's able to answer that with, sure. Come on in.
[5:33:48] you feel comfortable making a off the cuff well assessment
[5:33:53] there. I'll try. So it, it's hard to
[5:33:57] really make that determination. All right. Without doing
[5:34:02] the sampling and data. Right. Um, as I mentioned earlier,
[5:34:07] you know, this was, uh, to
[5:34:11] determine an exposure assessment. Uh, when exposure assessments
[5:34:15] are done, it sets a base on, on what's to be
[5:34:19] expected. As I indicated earlier, my recommendation
[5:34:23] would be if, if this proceeded, um, to
[5:34:28] do additional testing, that's one thing we discussed so that we could,
[5:34:32] you know, um, have the data moving forward.
[5:34:37] you'd asked the question about elevation, does it affect it? Mm-hmm . That's, that's
[5:34:41] one thing you want to do is not only measure the ground level, but the elevation
[5:34:45] as well. It's not gonna be much difference in my experience with the,
[5:34:49] the different types of ranges. And I've dealt with police ranges, federal
[5:34:53] ranges, um, in the decibel change
[5:34:58] for that. But definitely loads can affect, um,
[5:35:02] the change in decibel readings. But until you do the sampling, you just
[5:35:06] don't have that data. Thank you. If I may add the other thing, you know, that
[5:35:10] would make a difference for a, um, uh, follow up test just for our
[5:35:14] baseline purposes, after, uh, say the course is constructed
[5:35:19] at that point, now we have, we have berms, we have
[5:35:23] vegetative buffers, we have more tree plantings, we have structures
[5:35:27] that are gonna be on the property. All those will make a difference at that point as well. Yeah.
[5:35:33] do you wanna make any comment about, I mean, there were, there were several people that said
[5:35:37] financial benefit to the county. Like there won't be any, do you, do you want to address
[5:35:42] that at all? I don't wanna get into too much detail, but the main thing about that
[5:35:46] is this, this is a legitimate, yeah. It certified 5 0 1 c3 by
[5:35:50] the irs code. Right. Not a very easy designation
[5:35:54] to get, we spent almost a year fighting, not fighting, but going back and forth
[5:35:58] with the irs and getting that the economic
[5:36:02] development, this is, so this is an identified need through the survey
[5:36:07] that was done for the master plan, uh, target sports. So it
[5:36:11] is a priority, basically need that's been identified in the gland county
[5:36:16] for its master plan for parks and rec. This will bring
[5:36:20] people into the county. When you have people that come into the county, they do a lot of things. They,
[5:36:24] they buy stuff in the county, they purchase gas, they stick
[5:36:28] around. They may go to different venues, possibly they may go to a local brewery, they may go
[5:36:33] to the winery down the road. So there are a lot of things. So there is basically
[5:36:37] what I would call a, you know, a collateral, uh, increase that, that, that comes
[5:36:41] into it at that point. Um, we're gonna have positions created.
[5:36:45] they'll definitely be about four full-time positions,
[5:36:49] starting with two go to four, and then a handful of part-time positions that'll be created in the
[5:36:53] county as well. Uh, that, so a lot, a lot of benefits when it comes to
[5:36:57] that part of it. So we're generating jobs,
[5:37:01] if you think about it. I mean, if I've been an entrepreneur most of my life, if I can generate
[5:37:05] 10 jobs in each, in each company, in each location that I have, I know
[5:37:10] it doesn't sound like a big number, but that's what to do. We contribute to the
[5:37:14] economy. Alright, thank you. Yes, sir.
[5:37:19] so a big thing is still the noise. Sorry, a big thing.
[5:37:23] I have to make more noise. A big thing is still the noise. Everybody's talking about
[5:37:28] it. Yes. And I think if people are comfortable that there's an acceptable
[5:37:32] noise le level, a lot of other things tend to fall away.
[5:37:36] um, you know, if you don't hear it, you don't see it, you don't
[5:37:40] smell it, it's really not happening. Right.
[5:37:44] um, except for environmental stuff. But, um,
[5:37:49] what, what can you do to help people
[5:37:54] feel comfortable with noise? And maybe, maybe mr. Thomas
[5:37:58] is gonna get his steps in. He might have to help out with this, but, you know, I, I think all
[5:38:02] of us are kind, struggling with that a little bit.
[5:38:07] so there, I'll, I'll bring mr. Thomas back up. But one of the things I would say with that
[5:38:12] is, is I, a shotgun sport
[5:38:16] will never occur without a certain amount of noise. That's just, that is a reality.
[5:38:20] we know that. So noise will be generated to what extent
[5:38:25] you have to look at it, whether it's background noise or it's really irritating
[5:38:29] noise at 95 decibels hitting your house. Basically
[5:38:33] at that point, I think through the sound test, we have concluded
[5:38:38] that the noise level generated over an eight hour course is gonna
[5:38:42] be, uh, what was it? Four? I, I don't wanna speak for him, but 50 decibels,
[5:38:46] something, I can't remember what it was, but much lower than anticipated.
[5:38:51] right now, it may speak, I'm probably speaking at a 70 decibel, 65 to
[5:38:56] 70 decibels right now. Pretty much, if you have a
[5:39:00] faint background noise, just like a freeway becomes background noise,
[5:39:05] that is something, and it's in acceptable levels, that is not damaging
[5:39:09] below osha requirement. But also, our study came back pretty
[5:39:14] low in the fifties. I'd say that we are at a very realistic
[5:39:18] level. Well, this is not a nuisance by any means. So,
[5:39:22] you know, if a truck going by on the freeway hitting
[5:39:26] this jake brakes, I guarantee you you're gonna spike in the eighties right off the bat
[5:39:31] from the homes. But that's my speculation. When
[5:39:35] I went there for the informal test, I just took my, uh, informal
[5:39:40] map and I heard some trucks go by high seventies just
[5:39:44] standing there on the service road. Mm-hmm . And when the shotgun fire
[5:39:48] gave us in the fifties, I thought we were in a good spot,
[5:39:52] basically. Okay. But I, I, again, I, I'm, this is my observation. I'll
[5:39:56] let mr. Thomas speak a little more of that. So
[5:40:01] testing can be repeated. What we did is a triangular pattern,
[5:40:06] um, to try and represent the event. An event.
[5:40:10] um, there is different strategic setting up
[5:40:14] the samples, line pattern, sampling the closest residents,
[5:40:18] setting up sampling on their doorsteps, um,
[5:40:23] you know, to, to try and help the community to
[5:40:27] feel better with that. Um, I'll do all the testing in the world as
[5:40:31] long as somebody's paying me to do it, you know, but, um,
[5:40:36] but realistically, you know, I'm here as an independent third
[5:40:40] party consultant. That's what we do. Um,
[5:40:44] repeating the testing, adding different sampling points, getting
[5:40:49] closer to the residents would, would be something that, you know, I would
[5:40:53] recommend from listening to everyone here tonight, it, it is one
[5:40:57] of the bigger concerns, um, aside from the lead concerns.
[5:41:02] um, so that, that would be my recommendation. Repeat the testing as
[5:41:06] I mentioned before, but we can implement different data
[5:41:10] points, if you will. Um, and, you know,
[5:41:15] sampling it, it's ideal. Um, the more
[5:41:20] sampling we can get to represent it, represent the testing
[5:41:25] is better. I don't know how, how long somebody's gonna sit there for eight hours shooting
[5:41:29] with a shotgun. I'm sure their shoulder might be kind of sore afterwards,
[5:41:33] but, but you wanna represent what's actually gonna
[5:41:37] occur on the site. Um, so I think, you know, we can do some additional
[5:41:41] testing with the approval, um, to try and
[5:41:45] maybe provide more data. Um, like I said, I,
[5:41:50] I know there's a home very close, you know, to the property line
[5:41:54] with, if that homeowner gives permission to do testing and, and
[5:41:58] we would want, you know, their permission. I'm not gonna walk on someone's property without
[5:42:02] the permission, but to do the testing, um, you know, we
[5:42:06] would have a representative designated at that sampling point
[5:42:11] to make sure there's no other interferences, um,
[5:42:15] or documenting what else is going on. Um, you know, we had
[5:42:19] a couple of the data points, you know, when we were looking at
[5:42:24] the analysis of it, the analytics of it, um,
[5:42:28] we could tell that there's a four-wheeler, you know, that was utilized
[5:42:33] that actually gives the different peaks that we could sit there and
[5:42:37] look at to analyze, um, the interstate, even though
[5:42:41] you may not hear it, there is noise that is coming from that interstate
[5:42:46] as well that that's picked up as part of the analytics reviewing all
[5:42:50] of that. So, so we could definitely do some additional data points. Um,
[5:42:55] you know, but I, you know, the data that we have, I stand by
[5:42:59] that it's acceptable data that is less
[5:43:03] than the standards that are, um, regulate
[5:43:07] these activities. So I guess the variable is
[5:43:12] how well did I have it off? My voice
[5:43:16] is getting tired. I guess the variable is, once it's developed, would
[5:43:20] that change the sound transmission properties? And if it does at that point
[5:43:24] and it rises to a level, what, what do we do? I, from, from
[5:43:29] what I have read, I think what's the,
[5:43:33] the improvements that will be made as part of the site will,
[5:43:37] uh, assist in reducing the noise
[5:43:41] level, the installation of the berms, even, you know, installing
[5:43:45] structures on the site. Those are all things that helps
[5:43:49] reduce that noise being generated by the shotgun shooting.
[5:43:54] so if, if I may, sorry. You know, given
[5:43:58] the levels that are right now, and we've done basically two informal and
[5:44:02] one formal test, and I, I, I come to like,
[5:44:07] it's, I don't know if, if the crowd will still be happy with,
[5:44:11] with another result, but a testing, basically, I think having two
[5:44:15] informal readings, which it almost line with the formal test.
[5:44:20] and as we implement measures for additional sound mitigation,
[5:44:24] that's only going to help at this point. Keep in mind, we're a nonprofit.
[5:44:29] we have not had a capital campaign yet. So I like to be very frank about
[5:44:33] that. This stuff costs a lot of money. But at the same time,
[5:44:37] we wanna make sure that we've done a, a formal test and our
[5:44:42] sound, uh, experts seem to stand by. I the numbers
[5:44:46] seem to be in line and well below.
[5:44:50] what would, um, uh, what would be considered a nuisance? You know, if
[5:44:54] we were spiking at 75, 80, I would definitely say
[5:44:59] we got a valid reason to look at a few things.
[5:45:04] we are, we're in the low f low fifties, high forties, mid fifties.
[5:45:08] mid fifties. I think that's below. I mean, if I were to pull out my,
[5:45:12] I know this is not accurate, but a, the reader on the app right now,
[5:45:17] I would exceed mid fifties right off the bat
[5:45:21] and, and just all set a state. 'cause I had heard earlier tonight,
[5:45:26] um, about calibration of the equipment.
[5:45:30] all of our equipment was calibrated. It's, um,
[5:45:34] all serial numbered. Each one is calibrated before and after use.
[5:45:39] so just to mention, know that as well. A little more valid than my iphone
[5:45:43] was. Hmm. Yes. I would not use my iphone
[5:45:48] . Alright. Thank you. Thank you.
[5:45:58] we're good. Thank you very much. Appreciate your time. Thank you.
[5:46:05] um, before we do get
[5:46:09] started with talking, um, my utmost respect to each and every one
[5:46:13] of you, um, that was held wonderfully.
[5:46:17] there was no side comments. There was, you know, nothing that we had to,
[5:46:22] to, to kind of distract ourselves from. So I thank you for being a
[5:46:26] great community and for being respectful to a wide variety of opinions.
[5:46:31] um, and, uh, speakers that came up. That was, that was,
[5:46:35] it was really nice to see. Um, agreed. Um,
[5:46:41] I think we'll just probably, do you wanna start, uh, mr. Dean and we'll just kind
[5:46:45] of talk and, you know, converse back and forth, whatever concerns or
[5:46:50] questions. Citizen comment. Hmm. Did you close the
[5:46:54] citizen comment? I did. Okay. Yeah. Alright. Thank you madam
[5:46:58] chair. Um, one thing I was excited to see is I
[5:47:02] think we all agree on the benefits mm-hmm . We don't all agree
[5:47:06] on the location necessarily, but I think, um, it's a great purpose
[5:47:11] and, uh, I think everybody in the room would like to find a way to get to yes. That's, that's amenable
[5:47:16] for everyone. Um, but I think there's a lot of fear of
[5:47:20] the unknown still. I think some folks are asking questions
[5:47:24] just 'cause they don't know the answer, and I respect that.
[5:47:29] um, I also respect that the applicant is being,
[5:47:33] uh, diligent with their resources and not spending
[5:47:37] 'em before they need to. Um, I, I honor that,
[5:47:41] that's a prudent, uh, use of their, their not-for-profit funds or
[5:47:45] future funds. Um, but I, I had hoped
[5:47:50] at this point we'd be more converging than
[5:47:54] diverging or being parallel in our alignment of some of the thoughts. And so
[5:47:58] I think there's some areas that, um, that we might need to, uh,
[5:48:03] talk about. There's also many, we probably,
[5:48:07] in my opinion, don't need to talk about. So if I can just talk
[5:48:11] about some of the ones we don't need to talk about and why I believe that. Um,
[5:48:15] and that's, this is just my opinion based on, uh, what I've come to
[5:48:19] know. One of them is, uh, the
[5:48:24] environmental stuff. The applicant's gonna have to,
[5:48:28] as they've said, go through a lot more hurdles than we could throw in front of them. Um,
[5:48:32] they are required, uh, per their testimony to have an
[5:48:36] environmental stewardship plan. Um, I have great confidence in
[5:48:40] the luck companies to manage them to that the companies have
[5:48:45] a lot to lose if things don't go well. So that, um,
[5:48:49] that provides me at least some comfort and assurance that it will be managed and it will be done
[5:48:53] properly. Um,
[5:48:57] I do have a question that the applicant might be able to address just to make sure that,
[5:49:02] uh, the monitoring management and mitigation would persist in the
[5:49:06] event that the business ceased. Uh, for some reason,
[5:49:10] and I know that, uh, some folks have had, uh, uh,
[5:49:15] serty bonds to assure that I don't know what arrangement they may suggest.
[5:49:20] um, but the environmental, I wouldn't be too worried about. Um, as
[5:49:24] far as
[5:49:31] trespassing and, uh, signage, uh, I do like the idea
[5:49:35] of something a little more, uh, proactive for young kids.
[5:49:39] um,
[5:49:44] hours of operation. Again, if the noise mitigation can be, uh,
[5:49:48] if everybody can get comfortable with that, um, you know, again,
[5:49:53] the hours become less of an issue. But I do appreciate
[5:49:57] that, uh, that having some respite from, uh,
[5:50:02] the noise from the facility would be beneficial. I think.
[5:50:06] I think the weather and just usage will provide a lot of that. I don't,
[5:50:11] I, uh, I commented to the applicant that they would
[5:50:15] be lucky to be busy 365 days a year. That would be a great business.
[5:50:20] I don't think it, I don't think that will be the case.
[5:50:25] I do think a lot of things, uh, will be addressed in the pod. I don't
[5:50:29] know that, uh, we necessarily have to, um,
[5:50:36] restrict anything, uh, that the co that, that the, uh, pod process
[5:50:41] is going to, uh, go through such as the phasing and
[5:50:45] conceptual plan. Um, the things I think we can impact
[5:50:49] and we should talk about, uh, are noise, um,
[5:50:54] traffic perhaps. But I'm not sure that the issue at,
[5:50:58] um, the corner of, uh, three chopped in two 50
[5:51:02] with the store, there is anything that the applicant can impact.
[5:51:07] so I don't know that that's something that, um, we can really address.
[5:51:12] I know that, uh, it'll bring a little more traffic to the area. I appreciate that
[5:51:16] the roads are a public, uh, resource and they should be used.
[5:51:20] um, I don't think it's gonna be over overbearing,
[5:51:25] uh, with traffic. And
[5:51:29] I may have things to add as, uh, as we go forward, but it's late and my voice is tired
[5:51:33] and I'll hand back, hand it back to you.
[5:51:38] mm-hmm . Thanks,
[5:51:42] jess. Do you wanna, do you wanna weigh in, jess? Yeah. There,
[5:51:47] um, there was a number of
[5:51:52] people that spoke that
[5:51:57] had some contingencies. They referenced, I mean,
[5:52:02] everyone thought it was a right, it was a, it's a good idea, just not the right place.
[5:52:07] and there's a few people that, that spoke about how it would
[5:52:12] be acceptable, um, in order what conditions it would be acceptable.
[5:52:18] those are the kinds of things that, that someone, someone in this seat and someone that
[5:52:22] loves the community really likes to see how, how can we find common ground.
[5:52:26] so I don't know, um,
[5:52:31] if that's possible. Obviously the, the big ones are noise, um,
[5:52:36] having a proper noise maybe in plan traffic study.
[5:52:41] and I, I mean, I heard a lot of people talk about, uh, shot fall.
[5:52:47] um, so I I
[5:52:51] I, I just wonder if it's possible
[5:52:55] to have these things be accomplished, have the,
[5:52:59] the community at ease, um, and have this,
[5:53:05] what everyone agrees is a really great thing. Um,
[5:53:10] still, still working through that thought process. If, if there's a way to get
[5:53:14] everyone excited about it,
[5:53:21] I don't think you're ever going to get to a hundred percent on that. And that's just,
[5:53:25] um, yeah, it's a nice thought. Yeah. Thank you. Um, do
[5:53:29] you wanna, I'm sorry. Did you have more to add? Uh, not right now. You're good. Okay. Um,
[5:53:35] I think my biggest concern is, is going back to staff and staff's
[5:53:39] gonna be the one that handles a lot of this. Um, and, and there's
[5:53:43] a lot of, um, still, uh,
[5:53:48] uh, items that staff is still saying that we need clarification on.
[5:53:53] um, I I also think it's a, it's a great project, um,
[5:53:57] um, you know, living in, in
[5:54:01] glinda and, and the rural character that we all tend to en you know, enjoy.
[5:54:05] and, you know, my family, um, I have two eagle scouts and I have children
[5:54:10] who hunt and trap and fish way more than,
[5:54:14] than sometimes I wish that they would . But, um, I, I, I,
[5:54:18] so I I I, I agree with the concept. Um,
[5:54:23] I just personally, um, think that we still need more
[5:54:27] time to, for, for staff to figure out those unknowns and
[5:54:31] for us to kind of maybe come together on maybe some concessions
[5:54:36] as far as the hours of operation, um,
[5:54:40] days that are open tournament times, um, different things like that.
[5:54:45] um, and things that probably cannot be answered at 1155.
[5:54:50] um, and I've told my kids nothing good happens after midnight. So,
[5:54:55] um, I, I, you know, I, I hear the concerns,
[5:54:59] um, and I also hear staff concerns and I also hear
[5:55:03] applicant concerns. So now we have this trifecta of
[5:55:08] sometimes time can answer a lot of those things. Um,
[5:55:12] and so I am, I would love to present this to the board of supervisors
[5:55:17] as a more complete application at this point.
[5:55:24] mr. Patak? Yes. Um, I love that vsp
[5:55:29] wants to make this a family, make this a youth.
[5:55:34] I think those are great ideas and I think that that can happen.
[5:55:38] um, but there's just things I can't get around and
[5:55:42] I just can't sacrifice these poor people to
[5:55:47] take the hit of, you know, going down the, the, the
[5:55:51] rabbit hole of decibels and you wind and so forth. They're
[5:55:55] just gonna hear it every day and it bothers them. And
[5:55:59] they're, they're going outside and I just can't get over
[5:56:03] that. I can't get over the proximity to these homes.
[5:56:09] I can't get over the, the giant amount of lead that'll be shot
[5:56:13] into the wetlands. And my last question is, is this the best
[5:56:17] use of this land?
[5:56:22] all right.
[5:56:27] all right. To me, to you. Okay. Um, best but not least,
[5:56:32] well, sound is obviously, uh, the, the biggest thing that people were concerned
[5:56:36] about and what I, what I did just hear the applicant say a couple of times is take
[5:56:40] some time to review the sound study. Mm-hmm . So
[5:56:45] take some time. So it seems like I,
[5:56:49] I feel like we do need a little bit more time then, uh, I want a little
[5:56:53] more time to review some of the presentations that were given here today. There was a lot of data on some
[5:56:57] of the, some of those presentations, a lot of information. So I'd like to look at that.
[5:57:02] um, and, uh, I guess the other big thing is
[5:57:06] I, I hope we can straighten out this lease issue. Uh, I think that's mm-hmm .
[5:57:11] I don't think that was what we were expecting to see when we saw the 75 acres
[5:57:16] move to 85 acres. And so, uh, and maybe that's not really,
[5:57:20] uh, my concern, but it looks like it knocks out some of the shooting positions, and I
[5:57:24] don't think you want to do that. So, um,
[5:57:30] so I, I, I, I guess, do we want to have any conversations
[5:57:34] around this? Because I think I, I hear in general
[5:57:39] you saying this, this is, these, a lot of these issues are perhaps unresolvable.
[5:57:44] we do want to have something like this. It's got a lot of great benefits promising,
[5:57:48] um, benefits for the, for the county.
[5:57:52] but I, I would say that the, the other board members that I heard are council
[5:57:57] members, or what are we called? A commission, commission members. I heard
[5:58:01] . Uh, it is after almost talking midnight , um, I, I've,
[5:58:05] I've heard several people say, you know, we just like need a little bit more time and hopefully
[5:58:09] things can, uh, get a little clearer and work on some, uh, some issues.
[5:58:14] a little bit more. Um, so I,
[5:58:18] I would like to, uh, I, I would like to make a motion that
[5:58:22] we, uh, that the commission defer consideration of the conditional
[5:58:26] use permit cu 2 0 2 5 0 0 0 1 2 application
[5:58:32] by virginia sports park and training center at gland
[5:58:36] to the, uh, march, uh, planning commission meeting.
[5:58:40] I believe that's march 19th. March 19th, yeah. March, march 19th.
[5:58:45] um, so that I, I'll make that as a, as a formal, uh,
[5:58:49] motion. I'll second
[5:58:55] mr. Kimberly. Aye. Mr. Patek, can we, oh, can we discuss
[5:58:59] the motion before we go? Oh, yes. I'm sorry.
[5:59:03] after midnight.
[5:59:08] what are we gonna know then that we don't know now? Okay. And how do we assure that
[5:59:13] we receive that information on a timely basis so that we can digest it,
[5:59:17] make sure the community is aware of it as well? Well, what I, what I heard you mention
[5:59:22] was, uh, we're still unresolved on the noise
[5:59:26] issue. There's still yes, sir. Unanswered questions about noise
[5:59:30] and ways to limit the sound. I hear you also
[5:59:34] were concerned, and I'm concerned a little bit about perimeter security.
[5:59:38] yeah. Um, I think there's some
[5:59:42] items that, uh, maybe staff and applicant can kind of, uh, can kind
[5:59:47] of get together and maybe work through, whether it's those that
[5:59:51] possible, like you said, perimeter yeah. Um, hours,
[5:59:55] um, different things. Um, again, well, and I also heard that it's not
[5:59:59] possible to shoot in the direction away from the center of the range
[6:00:04] and you know, I, I guess I'm a little concerned about shot
[6:00:08] fall in the other directions, so mm-hmm . Um,
[6:00:12] uh, and that was one of the things that, that mr. Mclaughlin brought up and I,
[6:00:16] I agree with him on that. So I'd like to, I'd like to hear a little bit more about
[6:00:20] how that is assured that that's not gonna happen. So, and I think the sound study,
[6:00:25] I, I do think staff, um, you know, and all of us too, I mean, I read through it, but
[6:00:29] I, I want to read through it and really, you know, fully comprehend it and,
[6:00:33] you know, given a day and a half is, is
[6:00:37] not prudent to staff or to us. Um, so I, I'd like
[6:00:41] the time to for that as well. Yeah. And mr. Thomas did mention
[6:00:46] perhaps doing an additional study with more data points. Yeah. But he
[6:00:50] also made the very good point that he'll, he'll do as much as he's paid to do.
[6:00:54] and, and it's expensive. It is very expensive for a nonprofit that really hasn't
[6:00:58] had a fundraising, uh, effort yet. So
[6:01:03] I, I get that. Um,
[6:01:08] it's coming out of their individual pockets, I guess. I don't really, I don't know where it's coming from
[6:01:12] . So,
[6:01:16] so perimeter security noise, um, shot
[6:01:20] fall, shot fall, uh, mr. Machal also mentioned a a a,
[6:01:25] a better traffic study or, or maybe additional information on,
[6:01:30] uh, traffic, uh, was something that he suggested. Uh, so
[6:01:34] you're asking them to pay more, um, or if that's what it takes
[6:01:38] or I, maybe it's, maybe it's information we get from,
[6:01:43] uh, our local law enforcement and first responders and what
[6:01:47] their opinions are on that. So
[6:01:52] and coming to consensus on hours and days. Mm-hmm .
[6:01:56] yeah. I mean, I heard for the first time there might be some holidays that
[6:02:00] may not yeah. Have activities and yeah. None of that was, none of that was
[6:02:04] in the application. No, the application. So, alright.
[6:02:08] so maybe cleaning that up a little bit. Mm-hmm . Staff was, uh, was asking
[6:02:13] or saying that there were, there are some things that they're not sure they've got an agreement
[6:02:17] on. Even things that were already in the, in the presentation,
[6:02:22] so mm-hmm .
[6:02:28] all right. I got now if you want to
[6:02:32] call the vote, I just wanted to make sure we got said what we wanted to, is there, is there more?
[6:02:36] I, I love this. Is there more conversation to have about this before we,
[6:02:41] I mean, does anybody want to advocate for a different position on this?
[6:02:45] I mean, I, I'll hear all inputs on this. Well the other option is
[6:02:49] we can deny it and kick it to the board. I'm not sure that
[6:02:53] they want that. That's not what, what we're here for. We're here to polish it up and yeah.
[6:02:58] make sure that they're delivered a, I've been here for five hours and three
[6:03:02] minutes. I wanted something to end on. Um,
[6:03:06] so I think the deferral might be best, um, for the good of six
[6:03:10] hours. Six hours. Yeah. You got here at five o'clock. I got here at five
[6:03:14] so I've been here for seven hours in three minutes. You got it. Alright.
[6:03:18] I have to get up in five hours. So, yeah, go ahead.
[6:03:23] all right. So you wanna start again? Sure. Had the motion to defer
[6:03:27] to the march 19 meeting by mr. Kimberly, seconded by
[6:03:31] ms. Kowalski and for the roll call vote. We will recall mr.
[6:03:35] kimberly. Aye mr. Patak nay. Ms. Kowalski
[6:03:39] aye. Mr. Mclaughlin aye. Mr. Dean
[6:03:44] aye the motion to defer the application c you 20 25 12
[6:03:50] to the march 19th, 2026 pc meeting is
[6:03:54] approved on a four one vote. If there is
[6:03:58] no other business, this meeting is adjourned.