[0:02] Okay, it's all you, Andrea.
[0:04] >> Okay, it is Monday, April 6th at 3:02m
[0:09] and we have our stewardship committee
[0:11] meeting. Members in the room are Molly
[0:15] uh Taylor and Mark Pope and uh Melody
[0:19] McCalis from this uh Grand County
[0:22] Commission liaison online. Oh, we also
[0:25] have uh Christie
[0:28] >> Kristen Hoffine. Sorry, I don't know why
[0:30] I slipped up on that. And then online,
[0:33] we have members Tom Dylan and we have
[0:35] Katie Stevens from the BLM. So, and
[0:39] myself, Andrea Brand. So, uh, the first,
[0:42] um, order of business is action item to
[0:45] decide, um, uh, if we need any edits for
[0:48] our letter to the commission.
[0:52] And
[0:55] let's see, you have that up, but I think
[0:59] No, that's not the one I want.
[1:02] >> Oh, do you do you have the correct one
[1:04] then?
[1:04] >> Yeah. Yeah, I sent it to you, but I can
[1:06] put it up on my end. It'll be bigger.
[1:08] >> Yeah. Yeah. Do it on your end then.
[1:13] Wait a second. Let me make sure you're
[1:15] it's uh
[1:17] >> Oh, you want me to share my screen?
[1:19] >> Yeah, share your screen if you could.
[1:21] >> Do that again. Let me go back.
[1:24] Share.
[1:26] Post. Disabled attendee screen sharing.
[1:31] Disabled. Share.
[1:33] >> Is Is it working now? Try now.
[1:37] No, it still has the dialogue box says
[1:40] disable.
[1:45] » It's not working. They changed the
[1:47] setting. Hold on here.
[1:52] Share settings.
[2:01] Well, he's working on that. Would it be
[2:02] appropriate if I just clarified a little
[2:06] bit?
[2:09] » So, we're meeting for the approval of
[2:12] letter and through my
[2:18] involvement with the letter. I just
[2:20] wanted to state this is in response to
[2:23] our public hearing. So, the public
[2:24] hearing opens up at 6 PM tomorrow. So I
[2:29] just wanted I didn't know if everyone
[2:30] just understood the whole process.
[2:32] >> Yeah. So appreciate that.
[2:34] >> Yeah. Just that this the start will be a
[2:37] public hearing for what started as the
[2:40] planning commission uh sending the
[2:42] letter as to recommend to the county
[2:45] commission for a public hearing.
[2:49] >> Avery, are you going to present? Are you
[2:51] going to be public the letter
[2:53] >> or you just going to send the letter? I
[2:56] was gonna read it or a portion of it
[2:59] because we only had two minutes. Okay.
[3:02] >> Um
[3:03] >> and you have to wait
[3:03] >> three minutes
[3:05] >> and you have to wait till six
[3:07] >> whatever.
[3:08] >> No, not anymore. But only time. So they
[3:11] were you doing public hearings after six
[3:13] o'clock, but when we reread the code,
[3:15] the only time we have to do a public
[3:16] hearing after six o'clock is if it
[3:19] require if it affects the budget or like
[3:21] fee structure. So I think I can open the
[3:24] public hearing immediately. after
[3:26] assistance. Well, we have a few other
[3:27] things. We have like
[3:30] >> some other miscellaneous things and then
[3:31] we'll go into the public hearing.
[3:33] >> As long as it was noticed that
[3:35] >> it should have been noticed that way
[3:36] because that's what Dana was going to
[3:37] do.
[3:37] >> As long as it was noticed that way
[3:38] though. Okay.
[3:39] >> And I'll double check with her. But
[3:40] that's where it should be. Um
[3:41] >> No, I was just trying and not was on the
[3:43] agenda for after because before we were
[3:45] doing it that way. We were doing all
[3:46] public hearings after six o'clock. Yeah.
[3:48] >> But when she read the law, she's like we
[3:51] don't have to wait till after 6.
[3:52] >> But on the website it says after 6 and
[3:54] then I called in and she said, "Well,
[3:57] you can't do a comment until after 6."
[4:00] >> And she said that
[4:02] >> the day Dana on the phone and then just
[4:04] for general com but you could do a
[4:06] general comment before public hearing
[4:08] but otherwise it opens up
[4:10] >> right so when the public hearing opens
[4:13] for public comment. So basically what
[4:15] will happen is they'll open the public
[4:16] hearing and then the public hearing is
[4:19] open for a number of days set by the
[4:22] >> and then during that time every comment
[4:24] that is that comes in for that public
[4:27] hearing is meant to be sort of taken
[4:29] into consideration by the legislative
[4:32] body and then they vote on it at the
[4:34] next one. That's why our commission does
[4:36] it that way.
[4:36] >> Right.
[4:37] >> Yeah. So any comment that is made during
[4:40] that period whether it's in that meeting
[4:42] at 6:00 or whatever time like that
[4:44] part's kind of immaterial after it's
[4:46] open whatever comments are supposed to
[4:48] be included in packets or or logged in
[4:51] some way so that they become part of the
[4:53] record if it ever does go to or
[4:55] litigation.
[4:56] >> So there will not be a vote unless
[4:58] >> No, it's going to be unless they decide
[4:59] to suspend policy which can happen. They
[5:02] can the commission always has the option
[5:04] to suspend policy and vote immediately.
[5:07] Um, usually in something like a land use
[5:09] decision, they there would be no reason
[5:11] for that unless um it's a one of those
[5:14] decisions that people wouldn't really
[5:16] care about something like this. I think
[5:18] it would be I mean it's in my opinion it
[5:21] would be very strange for the commission
[5:22] to decide to have something like that.
[5:24] >> Thanks. Just clarifying that it's a
[5:26] public hearing
[5:27] >> and
[5:29] you can we'll be voting on it. We'll
[5:31] have have the whole, you know,
[5:33] >> 10 days or whatever to have public
[5:35] hearing come in through emails and then
[5:38] we'll vote on next.
[5:40] >> You can revisit that. So,
[5:41] >> no, it's me. It's me. So, um it's just
[5:45] been
[5:47] >> okay. There was there was one change
[5:48] that I would like to recommend. It's in
[5:50] this paragraph here.
[5:51] >> One that's the big one that you see
[5:53] right there. The word adjacent
[5:55] >> that the 235 acre parcel is uh located
[5:59] adjacent. In this case, it's adjacent.
[6:02] >> You may have gotten rid of
[6:05] both.
[6:08] >> I I prefer the word encompasses parts of
[6:10] both instead of adjacent.
[6:12] >> I like that better.
[6:14] >> Encompasses.
[6:15] >> The parcel encompasses.
[6:17] >> Encompasses.
[6:18] >> What the?
[6:19] >> Yeah. It's not adjacent to those trails.
[6:23] >> Well, I would say adjacent to and
[6:25] encompasses.
[6:26] >> Fine.
[6:26] >> All right. Because it is next. You know
[6:28] that that word is um
[6:31] >> so
[6:33] >> basically
[6:34] it and encompasses parts of both.
[6:39] >> Oh, what the heck does that say?
[6:43] » Okay. And encompasses parts of both.
[6:47] >> And we have a double and back.
[6:49] >> Thank you. Oh, there it is. Surprised it
[6:52] didn't come up and tell me.
[6:59] Okay.
[7:00] >> You need to say of both. Can you just
[7:02] say parts of the SL?
[7:06] >> It's nice to say both.
[7:08] >> I think I like both because it it's not
[7:10] just
[7:11] >> just
[7:13] >> um
[7:15] Okay, for that paragraph, you didn't
[7:16] have anything else.
[7:20] And then um
[7:22] background or mission statement.
[7:25] um then that it's managed the
[7:27] destination special recreation
[7:28] management area
[7:32] and um visitation and I got this updated
[7:37] by the BLM. I was always saying 17
[7:39] million at usually when I would do my
[7:42] annual report and uh Bill Bill Stevens
[7:45] looked at it again and gave me um said
[7:48] another 8 million. So,
[7:50] uh,
[7:53] um, yeah. So, there's the 99 businesses,
[7:55] 75 that are local.
[7:58] There's our easement that the county and
[8:01] the BLM have with the
[8:03] handover
[8:06] our concerns.
[8:12] There is one thing I I realize our
[8:14] letter doesn't have to speak to every
[8:16] argument made by the planning commission
[8:19] and its approval. And maybe if you're
[8:21] speaking, you know, you can go off the
[8:23] letter a little bit. There was a a
[8:24] comment made that the because of the
[8:26] topography of the parcel is capped or
[8:30] limited as to what can be built, which
[8:32] may or may not be true. However, the
[8:35] correlary to that is most of the
[8:37] buildable land is where the trails are.
[8:39] Well, so that's true and it's not. So
[8:43] topography
[8:45] as it stands it it because it's in a
[8:48] water source protection district it will
[8:51] be it is considered constrained lands by
[8:53] our land use code which limits the
[8:55] density because of that. Um, and because
[8:59] it is a water source protection
[9:00] district, it will also require a CD to
[9:03] be developed because water source
[9:06] protection districts require specific
[9:08] engineering and this one is specific to
[9:09] the city. So, it would require us
[9:10] working with the city to get that done.
[9:13] Um but that that doesn't mean that it
[9:16] can't be done like with enough money
[9:18] these things as we've as the county is
[9:20] discovering can be done and they can be
[9:23] done relatively easily as um techn
[9:26] technology continues.
[9:27] >> But if you didn't have that capability
[9:29] you would tend to build where it's less
[9:31] steep and flatter and that's where our
[9:34] trails are going to be.
[9:35] >> You can't argue that it's not going to
[9:36] impact the trails because of the limited
[9:38] building.
[9:39] putting the higher density.
[9:41] >> And the way that the law works as far as
[9:43] easements go is that just has to if if
[9:46] an easement is granted, it doesn't have
[9:48] to stay exactly where it is. It just has
[9:50] to um they just have to maintain the
[9:53] access.
[9:54] >> Um
[9:55] >> but would revenge have to stay where it
[9:57] is because it's a prescriptive easement?
[9:59] >> No,
[10:01] >> we had to move at seven mile. We had to
[10:03] move Gemini Bridges access to around the
[10:06] Balls property not that long ago and it
[10:09] was there
[10:10] been there for years and years and years
[10:12] and they moved it to the edge of their
[10:13] property
[10:15] and they can you know and those I mean
[10:18] they could do that now but there's not
[10:20] this isn't going to prevent or allow
[10:22] that either way they can do that that's
[10:24] their right as property owners as
[10:26] private property owners um they just
[10:29] have to allow these not exactly what the
[10:32] reason
[10:34] Well, a mile of the Slick Rock Trail. I
[10:38] mean, it's a mile long ement trail,
[10:40] >> right? And the BLM does hold the
[10:42] easement. That easement was gotten from
[10:44] Charlie Steen in 1969. So, I checked
[10:47] that today that the BLM does indeed hold
[10:51] an easement on the Slick Rock Bike
[10:53] Trail. Yeah, those have all been
[10:55] perfected over. Yeah, I thought I think
[10:56] they in
[10:57] >> 2016 Katie is when it was looked at
[11:01] again because when they built the
[11:03] Raven's Rim, they uh realized that it
[11:06] when they were in the process of it,
[11:07] they realized that the bike trail was
[11:08] not really where it was supposed to be
[11:10] in the paperwork. So
[11:13] that was, you know, rectified by 2016.
[11:16] Yeah,
[11:19] >> I feel your first paragraph under
[11:21] concerns is concise and uh clear and uh
[11:27] points out the confusion of why not the
[11:29] special zoning, right? Of like why, you
[11:33] know, of that they're going for this um
[11:37] bigger resort commercial and there's
[11:39] other options.
[11:40] >> Correct.
[11:40] Is that how it's that? That's
[11:43] very concise and nice that you point
[11:45] that out.
[11:46] >> Are these zonings defined by the state?
[11:48] >> Are they local?
[11:50] >> Local. Okay.
[11:51] >> The state has given a lot of leeway to
[11:54] the local jurisdictions to write their
[11:56] own land use codes and actually requires
[11:58] them to
[11:59] >> because it sound like there was some
[12:00] confusion about where resort special can
[12:02] and can't be applied and I thought, do
[12:05] we have any control over that? Can we
[12:06] resolve that issue? Well, so our general
[12:10] plan, uh, we have what's called the
[12:12] north corridor something plan. Um, and
[12:16] in that is where both of these zoning
[12:19] designations are are listed. Um, a lane
[12:24] amendment generally has to abide by what
[12:26] the general plan says. our general plan,
[12:30] it speaks specifically to both resort
[12:33] special and resort commercial and where
[12:34] they can and cannot be in in relation to
[12:37] properties. Um, and that's what the
[12:40] commission was speaking to specifically.
[12:45] » But resort special remains an option for
[12:48] this property.
[12:49] >> Okay.
[12:51] >> Well, yeah. So the
[12:54] >> go the weeds of
[12:55] >> the planning commission letter didn't
[12:57] really address any of that. They just
[12:59] approve the regional commercial.
[13:02] >> Yeah. They uh so so they're also
[13:05] limited. If if an applicant doesn't say
[13:07] that they want something like that, we
[13:09] couldn't change it like this wasn't
[13:12] there.
[13:13] >> They couldn't it's not in their perview
[13:15] to do that. If someone comes here and
[13:16] says like we want to go hike this, you
[13:18] say you don't send them somewhere else.
[13:20] So the commission could deny it then
[13:21] they can come back with a different
[13:24] >> resume.
[13:25] >> Okay. So any other edits under concerns?
[13:29] >> Let's see. The rest of it is uh
[13:32] about the roadway and illegal access is
[13:36] near the hot tubs
[13:39] would necessitate paving portions of the
[13:41] elderbench trail.
[13:43] >> Yeah.
[13:44] And that wasn't ne clear to me. So
[13:47] what I remember before when I did have
[13:48] access to the parcel map, there were
[13:50] kind of two corners of this property
[13:52] that impacted Hell's Revenge. One would
[13:54] be in the southeast quadrant near the
[13:57] exit of tipover challenge where the
[13:59] current exit of Hell's Revenge would be
[14:01] and you could you could put a paved road
[14:03] right up to there, but that's separate
[14:05] from the hot tubs.
[14:06] >> So the question would be, do you have
[14:08] access to both corners?
[14:09] >> It's whatever their legal access is,
[14:11] >> which is the hot tubs. So there
[14:14] when when a property is entitled it gets rights it gets legal access to
[14:21] the property whatever that legal access
[14:23] is is the only one that they have that
[14:27] they have control over. So if we grant
[14:30] if the county grants them commercial
[14:33] access or commercial uses on that
[14:34] property whatever road they have legal
[14:37] access on is the one that they are
[14:39] getting rights on. So if that's the top
[14:42] part, it doesn't matter if it's
[14:43] accessible somewhere else. The only
[14:46] legal right they have is to a legal
[14:49] access. If they wanted to change that, is something completely different.
[14:53] They would have to vacate it. It would
[14:54] be something that they would have to um
[14:57] do on their own. We can't make them do
[14:59] that. So if legal access is health
[15:01] revenge which they it is the only access
[15:06] that they can change the only access
[15:08] they can pave is hell's revenge
[15:10] >> right what I guess my question is that
[15:12] there are there are two places where the
[15:14] hell's revenge trail enters this
[15:17] property from two different corners
[15:19] would they have to improve both of those
[15:21] or one of them
[15:23] >> um I I don't think that they I think
[15:25] that their access is only one of them
[15:27] >> okay
[15:28] >> whichever one their legal access The hot
[15:29] tubs would not necessarily be
[15:32] if they come in.
[15:34] >> Yeah, but I don't think that's the legal
[15:36] access. I think the top is
[15:37] >> I see.
[15:38] >> Wow.
[15:39] >> That means their current Raven's Rim is
[15:41] not illegal access.
[15:43] >> No, they're just using they're accessing
[15:45] it from 191, but that's not their legal
[15:47] access to the property.
[15:49] >> And those are very different things. And
[15:50] that's
[15:52] those that would probably have to be
[15:53] annexed to the city in order to get that
[15:55] >> and that came up too. And you said that
[15:58] that's granted access right now at the
[16:00] highway. Is that called granted access?
[16:02] >> No, I have no idea what it is.
[16:04] >> So significant is say you pave pave the current exit by lines back. That's
[16:10] marginally impactful. But if you if you
[16:13] come in by the hot tub, you're talking
[16:14] about paving half of the
[16:18] half of Hell's Revenge if not more than
[16:20] half just to get to that
[16:21] >> corn. Yeah. I mean, I think I don't
[16:22] think I maybe I didn't articulate it
[16:23] well the first time this came up, but
[16:25] that was like always has always been my
[16:26] biggest concern with this. Please don't
[16:28] is that and that's that's it.
[16:31] >> Yeah. And I I didn't get that either
[16:34] last time at all.
[16:35] >> And when we met with editor, that was my
[16:36] thing. I said if you guys wanted to move
[16:38] your change access, then this would be
[16:39] an appropriate thing to come do. Until
[16:43] that happens, I don't I didn't think it
[16:44] was
[16:45] >> either that or putting a paved road that
[16:48] cuts through Health Revenge to get to
[16:50] that location as opposed to Health
[16:52] Revenge itself or would you have to be
[16:54] >> They would have to They only have legal
[16:56] access because it's granted from BLM2.
[16:59] They only have the class E road.
[17:01] >> So that basically with redemption.
[17:04] >> Yeah.
[17:06] >> And and who would pay for that road?
[17:07] >> They would have to. Well, I mean there
[17:10] they could make an argument that the
[17:11] county has to because they granted them
[17:13] the entitlements.
[17:15] I don't know if they would win, but they
[17:17] could try that.
[17:20] >> Wow.
[17:22] >> Okay. So, is that given that legal
[17:24] access property is via class D road near
[17:26] the hot tubs, this would likely
[17:28] necessitate paving portions of the Herbs
[17:30] trail. Such changes would fundamentally
[17:32] alter character of the trail system and
[17:34] diminish the experience that supports
[17:35] local guiding businesses and
[17:36] recreational users. The economic impact
[17:39] on the 75 local businesses operating
[17:41] under BLM permits would be substantial
[17:43] with correspond corresponding effects on
[17:45] the broader local economy.
[17:49] » Okay. Um that brings up that point. So
[17:52] that's great.
[17:54] >> The uh the committee also noted that we
[17:56] had this in our letter last year that
[17:58] allowing alternative access points from
[18:00] the Hell's Revenge exit road could
[18:02] compromise Santa Claus's abilities to
[18:04] manage its trail system. This includes
[18:06] impacts to revenue collection, visitor
[18:08] safety, orientation and resource
[18:10] protection.
[18:12] And why is it highlighting that there?
[18:14] We wanted to say it that way though,
[18:16] right? Since this establishment
[18:18] >> has been managed to maintain.
[18:21] >> Well, I mean,
[18:22] >> yeah, I think it should say
[18:23] >> I think I should say that on the heck
[18:28] >> uh to maintain it natural character
[18:31] without commercialization of its core
[18:33] resources. The proposed reszone
[18:34] represents a significant departure from
[18:36] that approach and introduces the
[18:38] potential for long-term changes to both
[18:40] the environmental integrity and the
[18:42] visitor experience of the area. For
[18:44] these reasons, Samplot stewardship
[18:45] committee voted to recommend denial of
[18:47] the reszone application in its current
[18:49] form, finding that it conflicts with the
[18:51] established management objectives of the
[18:53] Slots Recreation Area.
[18:56] >> We need a motion.
[18:59] I make a motion we accept this letter um
[19:02] as modified to be submitted to the
[19:06] commission.
[19:09] >> I second.
[19:13] » Do we need to say it the way exactly the
[19:15] way I've written it in the minutes of
[19:19] this?
[19:22] Good.
[19:23] >> Okay. Molly seconded.
[19:27] Okay. Um
[19:30] Tom and Tom, can you hear us?
[19:33] >> Yes.
[19:34] >> Okay. So, uh we're going to vote on this
[19:38] motion.
[19:40] All in favor?
[19:44] » You're abstaining. Okay.
[19:50] » All right. And we have um Tom.
[19:55] Okay. Thank you. All right, we can go
[19:59] into the next one
[20:02] which um
[20:05] so this Okay, so the next one is
[20:08] Okay, let me just give you some
[20:10] background on this. So week before Jeep
[20:13] Safari, uh we were pretty busy because
[20:16] there are people that don't want to be
[20:17] here Jeep Safari and they come before
[20:18] and after anyway and I was talking to
[20:21] Lucas Turk Turkington who is the um
[20:24] state one of the state rangers who comes
[20:26] up a lot to Sand Flats and we really
[20:29] appreciate him being there and he was
[20:31] saying well I can't be here these days
[20:33] because I've reached my 40 hours and we
[20:36] are limited to 40 hours. no, not allowed
[20:39] to have any overtime. And so I was
[20:42] talking to him about that and he said,
[20:44] um, you might want to call Brody Young
[20:46] because I said, well, maybe Sand Flats
[20:48] can
[20:49] uh transfer some money over to you folks
[20:52] possibly. Uh, in our original agreement
[20:55] between the the BLM and the county uh
[20:58] way back in the 1994,
[21:01] they do talk about SAM flats paying for
[21:03] some law enforcement, and we have never
[21:05] done that all these years. I guess they
[21:08] were maybe thinking Katie maybe they
[21:10] were thinking of Samplat's paying for
[21:13] BLM law enforcement. Do you have any
[21:15] idea?
[21:17] >> No. Although I think that's probably,
[21:20] you know, and we don't charge for our
[21:22] law enforcement up in Sand Flat. So
[21:24] maybe that was something they put in way
[21:26] back then, but I doubt if they were
[21:28] thinking of the state guys.
[21:32] Well, we don't have to uh you know vote
[21:37] on it today. We could just decide. I
[21:40] mean, I don't have theou ready. This is
[21:41] just a sample that Brody Young sent me
[21:45] and um I have to go to the commission
[21:48] and everything, but I just wanted to see
[21:50] what kind of support you all had for
[21:52] that. Um I did talk to Quinn Hall about
[21:55] it and he said that I needed to go to
[21:56] my, you know, committee first before I
[21:58] progressed any further. Um, looking at
[22:01] it, he had come back. Brody Young had
[22:04] suggested $28,000
[22:07] for six months um of eight hours extra a
[22:11] week for a law enforcement range. It
[22:13] wouldn't necessarily be just Lucas. It
[22:15] could be someone else as well.
[22:16] >> That entail mostly speed limit, just
[22:19] presence.
[22:20] >> Presence. And what he does now is he
[22:22] sits um right near the exit of Fins and
[22:25] Things
[22:26] >> and he'll do a lot of his paperwork when
[22:28] he's sitting there. He has reception and
[22:30] he's a people see him and then he also
[22:33] catches a lot of people when they come
[22:34] off of fins and things and go on the
[22:36] road really fast. He goes out on the
[22:38] trails and patrols. Um he's checking uh
[22:42] the registration as well. Um so he he
[22:46] does all of it. He helps with uh with
[22:49] accidents, emergencies as well.
[22:51] >> This winter I' I've seen that white
[22:53] truck there about 15% of the time that
[22:56] I've come through there.
[22:57] >> Yeah. So, you need more than him cuz he
[23:00] goes over a 40 hour.
[23:01] >> He goes over 40 in the spring and the
[23:03] fall, I guess. Uh
[23:05] >> well, he would he is avail he would like
[23:07] to be available to go over 40. I guess
[23:09] they've gotten tighter. What What do you
[23:11] think of this, Kristen?
[23:13] >> I just have a question. Why aren't you
[23:14] guys just utilizing title 17, modifying
[23:17] it, and making the sheriff take it?
[23:21] Title 17 is a is a
[23:26] govern. Well, but title 17 allows the
[23:28] sheriff to uh it was a an agreement
[23:31] between BLM and the sheriff.
[23:32] >> Well, we do have Brad Hines up there
[23:34] sheriff.
[23:35] >> Yeah. What a I mean he's a sergeant. I
[23:38] think
[23:39] >> I think like to I know this is a tight
[23:41] budget. So I think I was just trying to
[23:43] um I mean I think that the sheriff would
[23:45] have I think that you know maybe try
[23:47] that way to save money.
[23:50] Okay. If
[23:50] >> you already have title 17, it would
[23:53] require very little modification to
[23:56] >> Sorry, am I speaking really out of order
[23:58] on
[23:59] just exploring this? I've only talked to
[24:01] Brody and I've only talked to uh Quinn
[24:04] Hall.
[24:04] >> Okay.
[24:05] >> So, um
[24:06] >> yeah, you just already have title 17. Um
[24:09] adding in a section with law enforcement
[24:12] specifically for all of these things
[24:14] that are dictated in Title 17.
[24:17] Technically, if the county is has
[24:19] already adopted it, it is the county's
[24:22] obligation to enforce it, even by the
[24:25] sheriff. So, I mean, I don't think that
[24:28] I I mean, I I get that what you're
[24:30] trying to do, but I just think that the
[24:31] county already is already obligated
[24:32] under title 17.
[24:34] >> Okay.
[24:34] >> Sounds like I need to explore more with
[24:36] the sheriff.
[24:37] >> Okay.
[24:37] >> Is it a class B county road?
[24:40] >> Class. Yeah.
[24:41] >> Okay. So, it's in their jurisdiction
[24:43] already. Mhm.
[24:44] >> And then I've seen him sitting there
[24:45] too, but I've never actually seen him,
[24:48] you know, pulling something over. So,
[24:50] couldn't even it rotate with like the
[24:53] sand flat staff being more official
[24:55] looking vehicle sitting there like
[24:58] >> he does.
[24:59] >> So, in other words, you want me to yell
[25:00] at people, Molly?
[25:02] >> No. Flash your lights on him.
[25:04] >> No, there's We definitely appreciate law
[25:07] enforcement. We need law enforcement. We
[25:10] can only do so much.
[25:12] for the day. Somebody was doing donuts
[25:14] in the parking lot.
[25:16] >> I yell at them if they are.
[25:18] >> Okay.
[25:19] >> All right.
[25:20] >> Definitely appreciate all of the law
[25:21] enforcement presence that we get up
[25:23] there.
[25:23] >> And Jeff Urban will rotate in there. I
[25:25] mean, he Lucas isn't the only state,
[25:27] >> right?
[25:29] >> Okay.
[25:30] >> Yeah.
[25:31] And you guys, I don't know if you could
[25:33] know, you know, all three law
[25:35] enforcement, you know, the county, the
[25:37] state, and uh and with the federal um
[25:41] with BLM, they all have, you know,
[25:44] four-wheel drive trucks or vehicles,
[25:47] then they all have a side by side, and
[25:49] then I think BLM has a dirt bike, you
[25:53] know, and so so I've seen them all out
[25:56] there on all those vehicles. They're
[25:58] mainly on, you know, their pickup trucks
[26:00] or four-wheel drive vehicles on the dirt
[26:02] road, but yeah, it's nice to see them
[26:03] when they're out there on the real
[26:04] trails.
[26:10] » Okay. So, it sounds like maybe we need
[26:13] to I don't know. You can tell me like if
[26:16] you have support for this. Well, but I
[26:18] think
[26:19] >> yes.
[26:20] >> Yeah. Explore options.
[26:22] >> Yeah. Okay. Okay. So, it sounds like we
[26:24] need to table it and not vote on it, but
[26:26] explore options and I can have things
[26:28] ready for you at the June meeting. I'll
[26:30] tell you what I found out and go from
[26:32] there. Yeah, one of the options might be
[26:34] I mean instead of actually paying for
[26:37] more would actually be somebody doing a
[26:40] calendar where like I mean it's always
[26:43] amazing like oh what you know
[26:45] >> I tried that with them a little bit but
[26:47] they're like no we are kind of all over
[26:50] the place and yeah I have talked about
[26:53] that with them like
[26:54] >> you guys kind of
[26:56] >> say okay I'm here Monday Tuesday I'm
[26:58] here but you can
[26:59] >> you can communicate where your needs are
[27:01] greatest and then they can factor that
[27:03] into their own skills.
[27:04] >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, they're really good
[27:06] at, you know, sometimes, well, lots of
[27:08] times
[27:09] >> there won't be any law enforcement up
[27:10] there and we're just really busy and
[27:12] there aren't any issues yet, but I'll
[27:15] call dispatch or I'll or I'll text
[27:17] usually the BLM rangers and stuff. I say
[27:20] anyone available to just come up and
[27:22] drive through so that people don't think
[27:23] it's the wild west up here because it's
[27:25] just like feeling really it's really
[27:27] crowded and really chaotic and
[27:29] >> and then they come up and then sometimes
[27:30] the other week I called them the week
[27:32] before Jeep spray and right after I
[27:36] called them there was an emergency on
[27:37] Hell's Revenge SO EVERYONE WAS COMING
[27:39] ANYWAY. Then they went out and did some
[27:42] of the other stuff I was hoping for,
[27:43] which was just like some rolls on the
[27:45] trails because we'd heard about drinking
[27:47] open containers on one of the trails.
[27:49] And so I that's why I was calling for
[27:51] presence.
[27:52] >> So this would be actually just for this
[27:56] was just for the state.
[27:58] >> This one I mean this is the sample Cody
[28:01] sent me. So this isn't even
[28:02] >> Well, so they could go over meaning so
[28:05] they could come over their 40 hours.
[28:08] >> Yeah. even though it says special event
[28:11] like
[28:11] >> well this is this is anou he just pulled
[28:14] out of somewhere to give an example for
[28:16] us to have to start writing something I
[28:18] guess I just he just mentioned it he
[28:19] said I can send you some things we've
[28:22] used in the past I said okay just send
[28:23] it to me
[28:24] >> what if you had this and then you could
[28:26] use it when
[28:29] they weren't able to come
[28:33] but you needed like Jeep Safari covered
[28:37] >> well he and he had said, "How about 6
[28:40] months, 8 hours a week and I came back
[28:42] with how about 17 weeks, eight hours
[28:45] because and then that brought it down to
[28:47] 20,000 because I felt like that was
[28:49] enough coverage,
[28:51] you know, it was like 11 weeks in the
[28:53] spring and six weeks in the fall."
[28:55] So, but it sounds like I have I have
[28:58] homework. Well, I'm a couple just
[29:00] because this is also a state agency, you
[29:02] could do this under instead of a me
[29:03] anou, you would do it under a
[29:05] cooperative cooperative agreement in
[29:08] title 11. Um, which if you reach out,
[29:11] well, our office will help you with
[29:13] that.
[29:13] >> Okay. Okay.
[29:14] >> But lovely idea.
[29:16] >> Okay. Okay. Well, I, you know, I just
[29:19] thought while we're meeting, I'll put it
[29:21] on here to discuss. So since it just was
[29:24] recent happenings and um and then just
[29:27] to
[29:29] kind of tie into this uh I just wanted
[29:32] to give you um with this budget talking
[29:35] about cost and budget I thought I would
[29:38] just um give you updated and I
[29:41] unfortunately didn't print on both sides
[29:43] updated agreement stuff
[29:47] um we are 29% over last year through
[29:52] this time. And it's not just a fee
[29:54] increase. I did the math and um
[29:57] >> the warm winter we had.
[29:58] >> It's the warm winter. Yeah,
[30:00] >> that's pretty substantial.
[30:02] >> Yeah. So, that's substantial. So, I had
[30:04] some numbers wrong when we met last time
[30:06] and I caught them and went, "Oh my
[30:08] gosh." So, here's an updated one because
[30:10] I think I told you 4% when we met last
[30:12] time.
[30:13] >> Set the bar really hard. Really high
[30:14] though for future years.
[30:16] >> Yeah. We'll see. I know. Look at that.
[30:17] red line going right up.
[30:20] pink right over there.
[30:21] >> Yeah, March is crazy.
[30:22] >> Yeah, we'll see. We'll see if people
[30:24] were coming early if it starts dropping
[30:26] more quickly in the next month.
[30:29] >> Yeah, if it keeps getting hotter and
[30:31] hotter.
[30:32] >> Okay. Well, that's all I have.
[30:34] >> I have a question though, Andrea, and
[30:36] it's here. Let me share. And it's I you
[30:40] know, I don't know if anybody has the
[30:41] answer. Uh get back to my share screen.
[30:44] Um
[30:45] >> Oh, do I have to get out or you
[30:48] >> No, you're good. Can you see Can you see
[30:49] my desktop?
[30:51] >> Yeah.
[30:51] >> So, looking through this is, you know,
[30:54] back to the Hell's Revenge easement. Uh,
[30:57] you know, if I I'm scrolling through the
[30:59] document and I get to this page and I'm
[31:01] like, you know, they're highlighting
[31:03] these hot tubs that are at the top of,
[31:05] you know, sort of the dragon's tail. Uh,
[31:09] and they're saying that, you know, this
[31:10] is trespassing. And then they have a
[31:13] photo over here of the jeeps off the
[31:16] main trail and they're parked off the
[31:18] side and you know been there many many times. People play in those mini
[31:23] hot tubs let's say up at the top the
[31:25] devil hot tubs.
[31:26] >> Are they not going to allow that
[31:28] anymore? What I mean I don't understand
[31:30] why they put this in there to highlight
[31:33] uh uh that area. Does anyone
[31:36] >> the last when this came up the first
[31:38] time because Mark Steen was making that
[31:41] argument that there was trespassing
[31:43] >> anyway
[31:44] >> that raised my eyebrows because if we
[31:46] are trespassing that's a totally
[31:47] separate issue that we need to deal with
[31:49] on its own but I think it was somewhat
[31:52] of an emotional argument that was being
[31:54] made. So but you're right I mean one one
[31:57] maybe people should not be there at all
[31:58] and it should be marked accordingly. Um,
[32:01] obviously if they start developing the
[32:03] property, I'm sure there'll be more
[32:04] controls over leaving the the UR.
[32:08] >> My understanding was they needed to
[32:10] fence people out if they didn't want
[32:12] them on there.
[32:14] >> Nobody up there knows that it's private
[32:16] property at all.
[32:17] >> Correct.
[32:18] >> There's an argument that there's a
[32:20] prescriptive easement for that. Um,
[32:25] because there's nothing that's prevented
[32:27] people from using it for 20 years. it
[32:29] becomes what's called prescriptive
[32:30] easement in Utah state law. Um,
[32:34] technically because it's, you know, just
[32:36] kind of a loop.
[32:40] » Here it is on Google Maps. You can see
[32:42] how well defined it is with the tire
[32:44] tracks and stuff. But yeah. Yeah.
[32:48] >> Using it for more than 20 years. Like
[32:49] that's not even a question. Um, and it
[32:52] wouldn't be hard to even
[32:53] >> if it were on BLM land, I'd be out there
[32:56] building fences and shutting it off.
[32:58] Well, we were we did discuss this. We
[33:00] were very
[33:02] that he was bringing it up. I didn't
[33:03] know if he was bringing it up as a we're
[33:05] sharing so you should share or I didn't
[33:07] know
[33:08] >> Well, he didn't bring it up at the
[33:09] planning commission this last time.
[33:10] >> No, when he did his first presentation.
[33:14] >> Well, and in 2012
[33:16] >> when we did the easement, I asked them I
[33:19] bought the private property signs and I
[33:20] asked them, "Do you want us to put those
[33:22] up?" And they said, "No."
[33:24] Okay.
[33:26] >> Okay. Yeah. Yeah, cuz in the document
[33:27] I'm looking at here right now that was
[33:30] submitted to the county, there's no it
[33:32] just says TR area of trespassing. I'm
[33:34] like, okay, why did they put that there?
[33:36] That's why I'm scratching my head.
[33:38] >> Have to use the things they had last
[33:39] time. But
[33:40] >> yeah, they were um Yeah, my my memory is
[33:44] that they were pretty upset that that
[33:46] the prior staff said that um that was recommending denial on this for a
[33:53] lot of reasons. and they said that in
[33:55] sort of not retaliation but that they
[33:57] might um limit access to that because of
[34:01] that.
[34:03] >> So sounds when it comes to that we'll
[34:05] have to look into whether or not it's
[34:08] >> because it's not a county road because
[34:10] it's you know it would it would be more
[34:13] prescriptive easement sort of fight.
[34:15] >> Yeah.
[34:15] >> Um and it would be up to the commission
[34:18] on how how far they wanted to take that
[34:21] fight.
[34:21] >> Right.
[34:22] >> Yeah. I I just went to another mapping
[34:25] online mapping system and here it's it's
[34:27] actually highlighted as a road on this
[34:30] one. It's this little loop right here.
[34:33] >> Well, you know,
[34:33] >> we have a lot of problem with that with
[34:35] Google Earth, Google Maps where people
[34:37] go in and start making trails that
[34:39] aren't there without any regard to
[34:41] what's designated and not. So, this is
[34:44] battle to fight if it goes there.
[34:46] >> Yeah. Yeah. That's That's little
[34:48] compared to what we're dealing with,
[34:50] right? Zone change.
[34:52] >> Okay. But yeah, I just had the question
[34:54] just scrolling through that document. It
[34:56] was just like, okay, what's what's up
[34:58] with that?
[34:59] >> Okay.
[34:59] >> Well, sure. All right. Well, thank you.
[35:02] Um, I guess we can adjourn.
[35:05] >> Thank you for coming. You have a wealth
[35:07] of knowledge on the rails.
[35:10] >> Okay. She votes to the journey.