[0:01] Well, hey Paul. How are you?
[0:10] » What you you running for governor? What
you running?
[0:19] So this is my last
>> This is your land. This is your land.
[0:24] Well, the only reason I'm doing it is
because I started it while I was still
[0:29] doing the circuit writer help. So, I'm
actually the energy efficiency tech. So,
[0:36] » well, cool.
>> I mean, nobody
[0:39] better than you.
>> You pass these out. You run the
[0:42] governor.
>> No, sir.
[0:49] » Amen.
[0:55] I didn't say that
[laughter]
[1:02] in one hour.
All right, here we go.
[1:14] 533 and on order uh workshop the water
rate and waste water rate studies. Today
[1:24] is August the 27th, 2025 26. Uh
so the first on the agenda is we do have
[1:35] a forum present with all members being
present
[1:39] and
so we're going to go right into the
[1:43] workshop.
[1:46] » Yeah.
>> Well, just give me a second. I'll get
[1:50] this uh I'll get this going. I hope
[2:10] we on the right line. Um that I don't
want to change the HDMI
[2:22] » my input.
>> Yeah, there isn't an input on this.
[2:32] Come on.
[2:39] Oh,
>> says press Windows plus P to get to
[2:43] projection.
[2:57] I've never had it. I just plugged it in
and it popped up before. I don't know.
[3:10] We went to your office.
So, we went to your office first and
[3:15] then we had to read the I read uh let me
see those pages to be able to choose
[3:23] HDMI one.
[3:29] There we go.
[3:34] I was going to cast it, but at this
point,
[3:41] it should pop up here in a sec.
[3:50] » I guess connect device.
[4:10] Was
[4:27] that where we were at work?
[4:38] It does have the casting device in HDMI
3.
[4:41] » I think you have to make Wi-Fi.
>> No,
[4:48] it has a casting device.
>> It does.
[4:50] » Okay.
[4:55] I mean, every
[4:58] Let me get Yeah, let me get to
[5:10] They look
[5:17] so
[5:20] if you're on the same Wi-Fi
[5:32] COGS 32.
>> Can you see if it'll
[5:38] » What are we looking for?
>> Looking for the the just cogs training.
[5:42] » See if it'll cast if you hooked to their
Wi-Fi. Connect.
[5:46] » Password is capital C O Gs
[5:52] 132.
exclamation.
[6:03] » But that would be the cast. You want to
try HDMI too?
[6:06] » We'll see if we can cast first.
[6:17] Okay.
So, Windows C.
[6:24] I thought it was Windows desk.
[6:29] Oh, I made the T came up when I put
Windows K. of them and uh
[6:36] display they're available
window
[6:42] screen
[6:52] do this old school with the papers
we can't get
[7:00] [clears throat] I don't I would think PC
See spring?
[7:11] » Yes.
[7:22] um
[7:29] in the settings
[7:44] I know that all that's for iOS
[7:49] Oh, is this
>> HTML 2? Is it
[8:11] » Yes.
[8:25] Which port is it plugged into?
>> Well, we we tried again. It work. We
[8:30] tried to see. It didn't work. So,
[8:37] » do you want to try your cord?
[8:58] insurance.
[9:08] It's the
white.
[9:12] » Yeah, really
[9:19] put me on. Yeah. So,
I guess soon
[9:30] it's closed.
[9:36] probably never had any checkup since
we've been in here. This is blowing his
[9:40] way.
Oh yeah. Look here. Oh.
[9:47] » Oh yeah.
>> This [laughter]
[9:51] was the same or is it open?
[9:56] » No. Anybody
[10:03] else?
[10:15] » It ain't I mean it's completely
[10:24] off.
>> Which one are we in? One. one
[10:40] options. What was that?
>> Screen
[10:48] sharing power.
[10:52] connection
[11:03] center.
[11:09] Um,
>> okay.
[11:10] » So,
>> TV name.
[11:14] » You think it's Windows V?
>> It's on the screen PC screen only.
[11:20] » Go back to your
electric
[11:31] screen. That's it.
[11:38] » Windows
[11:44] if it actually
[11:52] acting like it's trying to connect with.
What is that? It says to select on your
[11:59] screen. Huh? says selected on preceding
[12:06] » Wednesday.
[12:26] I guess a car on fire because the entire
like midsection like two miles was just
[12:34] on
pretty good.
[12:38] » Oh yeah.
[12:42] » The TVs are too truck
[12:50] big
in the middle big tires.
[12:59] disconnect just
[13:04] popped out
kind of
[13:13] after
[13:18] limiting the inputs just
[13:23] we have
I didn't
[13:28] get there. You could find
>> You just need something over there.
[13:34] » I think that one's sitting over there.
[13:39] » That's one of our sitting.
[13:44] » Oh, really?
>> You need connections.
[13:50] » Somebody
get it connect manager.
[13:55] That's where we were last.
So there he is. He's
[14:03] beside his own.
>> Okay.
[14:08] I don't know what to do to tell you the
truth. Let me uh let me open up this
[14:16] door.
[14:26] If it ask me for because it's not asking
for
[14:31] to do anything.
>> If you do the control P, it still
[14:33] doesn't ask you for anything.
>> No, not the control the Windows key.
[14:40] » Do you say duplicate? Pull it.
[14:48] » Now you have to do the other one to get
it to cast. What? You do Windows K.
[14:53] » Windows K.
>> That's where it popped up.
[14:59] » Well, maybe he can't find device.
>> Oh, I just go old school and I'm going
[15:04] to give you the paper version of that.
[15:10] You can always do like a library.
[15:17] So my next thing
you can type in cast it
[15:23] I'll show you all those options
[15:30] button.
[15:42] » Are you still on the internet?
>> Yeah. Yes.
[15:54] Um
[16:00] still
clear about these.
[16:15] What we're doing
[16:28] 10 or 11?
>> I think it's 11
[16:32] project.
[16:46] Do you want to see if it will um reject
my computer and then you can just email
[16:50] it to me?
>> I can email it to you real quick. Let's
[16:53] try that.
[16:56] » That's not a problem.
[17:04] It actually should be the same one I
emailed you before, but I'll email it
[17:08] again. So, it'll be on the top of the
list. So need
[17:35] I just read text there.
[17:47] something
[17:52] called something
[18:02] [clears throat]
our laptop connect to it and you can see
[18:05] what I'm trying to do on his side.
[18:33] I make a motion.
[18:38] I was just getting so I can make a
motion.
[18:42] No silence today. We were so busy.
[18:50] Did you have water?
Do you have water?
[18:54] » No,
>> there's another break somewhere.
[19:02] Where was it?
[19:12] » I sent you.
[19:22] It's the one that says 37.
[19:46] Keep protect.
[20:14] So we can't we won't take action
anything. This is just a recation.
[20:19] » Yeah.
Presentation
[20:24] and that's
okay. And that's what we've already
[20:29] done. We're going to run Monday.
So sometimes this gets kind of
[20:35] complicated and we can't figure it out.
[20:44] after.
[20:52] » What?
[21:03] This is our crap wag.
[21:34] else. Uh yeah, I didn't consider
[22:17] I was having the same trouble with
like something wrong
[22:27] or something
[22:36] wasn't
I guess
[22:40] it should be
[22:58] too.
[23:14] 30%.
Yes.
[23:23] That's my
[23:32] start.
[23:38] Wow.
Wow. That was a lot for uh [laughter]
[23:45] at uh
technical difficulties to say the least.
[23:50] Um
what what you're going to see is is
[23:54] actually in the handout. That's why I
said I I was fixing to go old school
[23:58] because I was getting frustrated with
the technology. So uh what you're going
[24:04] to see is the expenses that u
water and on the next page you'll see
[24:11] the expenses for wastewater. Um what I
want to do is I want to explain how how
[24:17] we go about figuring up water and
wastewater rates. Um you'll see the item
[24:25] cost in one column
and then you'll see a fixed cost and
[24:30] variable cost. Um the fixed cost is what
goes towards your monthly minimum. The
[24:37] variable cost goes into what's called
your price per thousand. Okay? So when
[24:45] when we're looking at these, when we're
breaking up [sighs and gasps] what's
[24:49] fixed and what's variable, it's
basically to try to
[24:55] um either raise or lower the fixed or
variable cost. So
[25:03] what you're going to see at the bottom
of this page is just on your water
[25:07] budget is you need about 1.277 277
um71 on a yearly basis.
[25:16] 62% of that is fixed and 38% of it is
variable. So we have a a grand total of
[25:25] fixed cost for the waterite only of
789432
[25:32] and we have a variable cost of 488139.
Okay. Um, we did both water and
[25:41] wastewater with this sheet. So, the next
sheet you'll see, which is
[25:47] is the next sheet over, is the
wastewater expenses. Okay? And and what
[25:55] you're going to see on this is
the total expenses for the wastewater.
[26:02] It's broke up exactly the same way. The
fixed costs go to the monthly minimum.
[26:08] The variable costs go to the price per
thousand. Um, obviously when you look at
[26:15] the bottom line of this sheet, you're
going to see a cost of
[26:21] 772641
is the total cost for your wastewater
[26:26] expenses for the year. 61% of that is
fixed at 47448
[26:34] and 39% of it is variable at 298 233.
Okay. So these are the expenses
[26:46] that we we got these um off the budget
you know these were budgeted expenses
[26:53] for for the system. So, um, if you go
look at the budget, all of these
[27:00] expenses are in there. Um, from then on,
we got to figure out how to pay for
[27:05] them.
So, [laughter] you know, so the the next
[27:11] sheet you're going to see is the meter
data sheet. And u that sheet basically
[27:19] does all the calculations. So when we
when we look at the different size
[27:26] meters,
TRWA always uses what's called the
[27:31] American Waterworks Association
standards for meter equivalencies.
[27:37] Okay? So you're going to see that you
have 1371
[27:43] 5/8 by 3/4 inch meters in your system.
Okay?
[27:49] These meters are multiplied times one.
[27:55] The the next thing the next one where
you actually have meters is you got 141
[28:01] in and those meters are multiplied by
2.5.
[28:06] What you need to know about these
multiplication factors is that's how
[28:10] much water will go through those meters.
Okay? So if you look at the times one
[28:17] about 10 gallons a minute will go
through that meter. Where if you look at
[28:23] the 1 inch meter that's 2.5
about 25 gallons a minute will go
[28:29] through that meter and so on and so
forth. So the 2inch meter you got 20 of
[28:35] them about 80 gallons a minute will go
through that meter. So, um, this is why
[28:42] TCEQ will allow you to charge more
because it needs more capacity to to
[28:50] actually do these meters to actually
service these meters and it takes a lot
[28:56] of capacity away from your water system.
So in grand total when you look at this
[29:03] and you look at the meter equivalency
you have
[29:08] 1778
1778
[29:12] um water meters in your system because
that is what the meter equivalency says.
[29:20] Um on the wastewater side taps are
always the same. They're always the same
[29:26] size. So, wastewater taps, it's just
multiplied times one. Okay? And y'all
[29:32] have,98
of those. But if you want to know how
[29:37] this how you get this number, if you
look on the first page
[29:44] and you look at the fixed cost of of the
water, this 789432,
[29:54] all you have to do to get this this
number that's up here is divide by 12
[30:00] months in the year and divide by 1778.
And that's where that 37 comes from.
[30:09] Okay. So,
nevertheless, it's it's um the
[30:16] multiplication factors are set up and it
actually tells you. So, these 4inch
[30:21] compound meters, they should be paying
925 monthly minimum. You have four of
[30:28] them out there. These 3-in compound
meters, you have seven of them out
[30:33] there. They should be paying 5.92 per
month. These 28 inch meters or 22 inch
[30:43] meters, sorry, they should be times 8 at
296.
[30:48] So these bigger meters should be paying
a whole lot bigger monthly minimum. And
[30:53] I know you do not have that in effect
right now. So that would bring in a lot
[30:59] of extra revenue to the city just by
doing that. But a surprise to whoever's
[31:04] using it,
>> huh?
[31:06] » A big surprise. What would be an example
of a 4 inch compound?
[31:10] » A 4 inch compound. I mean,
>> probably the school um maybe Morton Salt
[31:17] out there.
>> Three inch.
[31:19] » They got three of them. You said
>> No, they have a three inch three.
[31:21] » They got a Okay. Morton Salt has three
inch compounds.
[31:25] » Um
>> maybe two inch.
[31:28] » They probably have a three or two inch
more than likely.
[31:31] » Yeah. So, um, some PE places have a lot
bigger meter because a lot of cities
[31:38] didn't charge they charge the same
amount for a big meter as they did to
[31:43] put in a small meter. Um, so they say,
"Oh, well, I need a 4 inch meter and
[31:49] they may not actually need a 4 inch
meter." So when you start charging these
[31:56] these if you were to start charging
these amounts for these size meters they
[32:02] may come back and say oh I didn't need a
4 inch all I needed was a two you know
[32:07] or all I need is a three or or something
along that lines because they don't they
[32:13] don't want to pay what they should be
paying. So, but uh same thing on the
[32:20] wastewater side that fixed cost of 33.
If you take this 4748
[32:27] that's on the second page on the fixed,
you divide it by 12 and you divide it by
[32:33] that 11 1198,
it's going to come out to 33. So,
[32:40] um, the next sheet is the water sold
worksheet, but it's also the wastewater
[32:46] sold worksheet.
Um,
[32:50] the amount of money that you actually
need to make is this 488 139.28.
[32:57] Uh, I started putting numbers in here
until we got a little bit over that.
[33:04] Okay. So, I try to keep it uniform
because I like uniform numbers. So, I I
[33:11] kept putting I put 330 in there. I put
325, 425, and that wasn't enough. I put
[33:18] 330, 430, 530, 630, 730, 830, and that
wasn't enough. So, I ended up at 335 per
[33:27] thousand for the first 2,000. Uh 435
from 2 to six. uh 6 to 10 was 535, 10 to
[33:37] 20 was 635,
20 to 40 is 735, and 40 and up is as
[33:44] 835.
And that's to make this amount of money.
[33:49] And if you look on those expense sheets,
the variable is actually this number,
[33:54] this 488 139. So, um it carries over
from that page. Now, this 537
[34:04] is what is considered the uniform cost.
So, if you charge the same amount for
[34:10] every,000 gallons sold, you would charge
that $527.
[34:18] What these block rates actually allows
you to do is it allows you to give a
[34:24] break to
the fixed income folks that don't use
[34:29] that much water. They don't have to pay
the 527. If they're only using a,000
[34:35] gallons, they only have to pay 335 for
it. But even if you use 10,000 gallons,
[34:43] you're only going to have to pay 335. So
it it goes to everybody. Everybody gets
[34:49] this discount, but a lot of people are
going to move out of that discount and
[34:54] they're going to be up here paying at
this 835 because 20% of your water is
[35:01] sold at that 835 range.
So,
[35:07] » which are also probably your bigger
meters, your larger meters.
[35:11] » It's it's probably your bigger meters
and u and u heavy just heavy users.
[35:17] there's there's people out there that
are going to use over 40 um trying to
[35:22] keep their grass green or landscaping
and stuff like that. So, uh there there
[35:30] are it it could be bigger meters, but it
could also
[35:35] uh
it it could be just a normal meter that
[35:39] they're just using a lot of water. So,
um, on the wastewater side, it's a
[35:45] little bit cheaper price per thousand.
Um, it's just down below
[35:52] as you can see. And it's the same way. I
try to keep it uniform. And um and what
[36:00] you're seeing is starting off at a $1.50
going to 250, 350, 450, 550, 650 and um
[36:12] and the uniform cost would be basically
3.45.
[36:17] So it's it's the same way. Um you're
you're selling less water or or you're
[36:24] selling less waste water than you are
water. So, it's it's one of those things
[36:30] that u you just got to look and see, you
know, um where you want to be on there.
[36:38] Um
the summary page is just to summarize
[36:43] all of this that we talked about. But
first, before we get out of this, do you
[36:48] guys have any questions about what I'm
saying? I mean, I I don't if there's
[36:53] questions, please throw them out at me
while we're going. So,
[37:04] » yes,
>> variable, those numbers that been put in
[37:09] the 50 5050 or the 6633, those were
discretionary, right? If they chose to
[37:16] put it all in fix, they took out,
correct?
[37:18] » Yes. Yeah. If if we we have let's just
see a 5050. Okay. So this one's 5050.
[37:27] Okay. So if we want to put it all in
fixed, what we can do is we can put it
[37:33] all in fixed. I can put 100% of that
into the fixed.
[37:38] As you see these numbers go up, but also
what goes up is from 37 it goes to
[37:45] 42.86.
>> Okay. So, so correct
[37:52] » split it that way.
>> Yeah, that's why we split it that way.
[37:54] But I wanted to say that all this is
variable. That's always
[37:59] » right. So, so
in in replacement reserve or
[38:05] depreciation is usually a fixed, but
[38:12] it's one of those things that you can
you can move around a little bit and
[38:16] play with to u to alleviate some of the
higher levels on the on the monthly
[38:24] minimum. So
>> the water there
[38:28] before the brick.
>> Yes.
[38:32] » So the 335
was just barely above.
[38:39] » So if you're wanting for repairs and
stuff like that, then I originally had
[38:45] it at like 350 and then he had another
example was like 385. So you can look
[38:49] and see what the difference.
So, so we know what it's going to
[38:54] generate at the 37. It's it's actually
going to generate the fixed column. It's
[39:00] going to make that much money, the 37
wheel, which is the
[39:08] the 789
432. So, the 37 will make that much
[39:14] money. But just u just to show you and
and I'll just put it right back where it
[39:21] was. If we put
the number we have down here right now
[39:26] is 493.
So if I put four, five, six, seven,
[39:33] eight
[39:36] backspace
nine in here. Oh, that's I'm making a
[39:41] lot of money. Uh nine. Yeah, exactly.
you know, so
[39:46] so it went from from
>> 493 to 553
[39:54] just by adding that 65 cents per
thousand on each of those tier. So
[40:00] there's there's ways to to play with
these worksheets and uh and
[40:07] » the percentages you have like
percentages where you're talking about
[40:11] we had 2 26% in as one category you did
other are our numbers on like are they
[40:18] the same or average like with other
count
[40:21] » it's there's
>> yeah I mean you're
[40:26] some some towns don't have the big 20%
on the bottom number.
[40:31] » That was 35.
>> Uh it it really depends on how many
[40:35] commercial type meters you have whether
that's going to be higher or not. But uh
[40:41] usually this number, these first two
numbers are somewhere between 25 and
[40:47] 35%.
Almost everywhere I go. Okay. The second
[40:51] number is the same way, 25 to 35%. So,
usually when you get out of this 6,000,
[40:58] you've sold 50 to 70% of your water at
that point. Um, so there's not a lot of
[41:06] people in in these tiers, you know,
there's there's really not a lot of
[41:11] people and and u this is a lot of data
entry and I didn't print these off, but
[41:18] you know, if you if you look at where we
did the data entry on these um
[41:27] » once you get out of once you get out of
this u the 6,000
[41:33] you're only talking about 173 people.
You know, there there isn't a whole lot
[41:40] outside
>> after you get past that. So, you're not
[41:45] talking about a whole bunch of people
that you're going to be affecting. Most
[41:50] of your customers are up there in those
top two tiers.
[41:54] I think when we were looking at all of
that data by customer number, there were
[41:59] 17
17 customers use the majority of the
[42:03] water.
>> 14%.
[42:07] » Well, you have Yeah. You have 14 You
have 14 customers using 20 almost 21% of
[42:14] the water. 14 people,
>> you know. Well, a few of them are
[42:20] property owners who own multiple houses
on one count. So I don't know that
[42:25] » um
>> these are be individual meeting.
[42:27] » Yeah.
>> Well yeah they they have a rule in you
[42:33] know it's supposed to be one meter per
resident. So they really need to come in
[42:38] and get another meter if if that's if
that's the case. So plus it would mean
[42:44] more revenue for the city. [laughter]
[42:48] » Right.
>> Yeah. But it's a it would be a larger
[42:52] amount of water. So um but
>> be a larger meter though.
[42:57] » You could as when when you look at these
>> Yeah. If you had if you had uh
[43:07] » if if you had two houses on one meter,
you could actually have them on a one
[43:11] inch meter because it's two and a half
times. So you could have them on a month
[43:17] on a but they would be paying more than
two meters added up together because two
[43:22] meters
[43:27] » they let me fix this
[43:42] » so they go live
[43:48] the nursery
[43:53] » they took their stuff out
of the crib.
[43:59] » I didn't know they didn't know
after they left
[44:03] » they closed it. I remember them coming
in ones
[44:06] cuz the berry one.
What I think is interesting, the reason
[44:11] I asked about the 20% of the stuff
working if one of those if it's a
[44:16] business and it shuts down, we're kind
of banking on
[44:19] not the fix but the variable for them to
be paying that. Right.
[44:22] » Right. That could kind of mess.
>> It it could, but we what we try to do is
[44:29] not use a year that's been really hot.
So we sort of try to underestimate the
[44:37] water sales. So if something like that
happens, you still make the amount.
[44:43] Yeah. You have a little bit of cushion.
So if if I'm doing rates, I try to work
[44:48] off of a wet year is great. A normal
year is great. A hot year like we had
[44:55] this year is not a good year to
>> estimate
[44:58] » to estimate. Yes. So, I wouldn't want to
get,
[45:02] » you know,
I don't I don't know if y'all remember
[45:06] 2011, but
>> you know, it it was hot hot that that
[45:11] year and 2012 also, but not as hot as
11. But, [laughter] uh,
[45:21] » right.
>> So, what's
[45:26] on this one?
[45:35] 297.
[45:41] » So,
[45:45] the rate that you have out the new rate,
the code rate is that pays it off to
[45:49] 335. Is that what they what 733 does?
[45:56] Well, actually the 335 is the variable.
37 is the fixed.
[46:01] » I'm sorry. What time again?
>> So, like the 335 to 38. 335 is the
[46:05] variable cost. So, that's the one that
was on the right on that first sheet.
[46:08] That's what goes up and down based on
how much water you use every month. The
[46:12] 37 is just the base you pay if you don't
use.
[46:16] » So, we're going from 29.67 to $37
on the base. Just if you don't use any
[46:22] water, you still have to pay that. $7.
Yeah,
[46:24] » that's what we have on the sheet right
there. $7 there plus the variable rates.
[46:30] » Yes.
>> Another two and a half%
[46:34] for a thousand
>> for your small meters.
[46:36] » Yes.
>> And then if you were to adopt the
[46:39] » sure
>> the other ones in your bigger meters
[46:40] will go up significantly. Well, I think
that's one we're more concerned with
[46:44] probably right now than any
[46:56] » um so my base will go to 296
>> because I don't use enough water to
[47:02] fulfill my goal or
>> Well, you're still going to go up too.
[47:08] Now you're being charged 350 per
thousand instead of thousand I mean a
[47:12] dollar per thousand.
[47:17] [clears throat]
[47:20] But just just to let you know these I
mean these numbers are the bare minimum
[47:27] to to meet your budget. Okay. Um this
this there isn't a lot of ropes so open
[47:33] dope like they say in the car business.
It's it's this is the bare minimum to
[47:39] actually meet your expenses. So, it's
it's one of those situations that yes,
[47:45] you can move stuff around. Um I'll I'll
show you on the last couple of pages
[47:52] which are the summary pages. Um this
rate summary basically has and it's also
[47:59] in your your packet here. Um you'll see
that it's basically just summarized that
[48:06] you know a 3733
the uniform cost is here the the the
[48:14] cost per thousand is is each one of
these but I went ahead and did one more
[48:22] up for you so you could see the
difference that if you guys wanted to do
[48:28] a 3531
you could do on the last page, the very
[48:33] last page. Um, but the price of water
goes up. So if you move some out of the
[48:41] monthly minimum into the variable,
um, then the price of water goes up. So
[48:49] whatever you do to one side, the
opposite happens to the other. So if you
[48:53] make the monthly minimum higher, the
price of water goes down. If you make
[48:58] the price of water higher, the monthly
minimum goes down. But all we're trying
[49:03] to do is get you to the point to where
you're making the amount of money that
[49:08] you need to make to pay for the budgeted
items that you guys have budgeted for
[49:14] and and be able to have money coming in
to pay for those things. So,
[49:23] » so on the uh
budgeted
[49:29] item spreadsheet,
>> the expenses margin to the replacement
[49:36] reserve 250,000 long-term debt of 22,000
and the CI. Tell me exactly what those
[49:42] are and if those are those.
>> Okay. Yes. replacement reserve is
[49:46] depreciation and that is y'all's
depreciation that uh um that that you
[49:54] have every year on on the fixed assets
that you have in this city. Okay. Uh the
[50:01] problem is is if if you look at your
audit, you're going to see
[50:08] a big number on accumulated depreciation
and then you go look at your cash
[50:14] reserves and you're going to see a lot
smaller number than that accumulated
[50:20] depreciation, which tells me that you
haven't funded depreciation in the past.
[50:26] So what I'm trying to get you to do is
actually fund it. And it's it's uh um
[50:34] it's it's a bad deal when you when you
go so many years and not
[50:39] » that's the problem we're fight we're
going to be fine with right now
[50:41] » right
>> we really need to be at this point but
[50:44] it should have been done so many years
ago at this point
[50:47] » right and and you can only you can only
do what you can do I mean you can't put
[50:53] $750,000
in here and then make your you could but
[50:59] you know It's it's you're going to have
a $55 monthly minimum, you know.
[51:04] [laughter] I mean, it's uh
>> basically we have to do
[51:09] » we have not kept up with all of the the
upgrades and the things that we needed
[51:13] to do. that appreciation's never been
factored into the budget and it's not
[51:16] factored into this current budget that
was printed and given to y'all. But he's
[51:20] saying when we're determining rates, we
have to start factoring that in because
[51:25] you can't make
>> you have a pump that goes down
[51:30] » and then
>> right now we're struggling.
[51:32] » You have a pump that goes down then
what? So if you budget for it, but then
[51:35] you got that money put back when that
pump goes down,
[51:38] » right? and and and I can
>> the long-term debt is going to be what?
[51:43] Their loans.
>> Yeah. This is their loans. Their water
[51:46] loans that
>> Yeah. these this this is principal plus
[51:51] interest. What you have to pay on a
yearly basis to your to your loans. And
[51:56] uh the CIP is basically a capital
improvement plan to start getting money
[52:02] to improve your system. Okay. Um, I
would I would like to see that start
[52:08] going up on a yearly basis and start
getting some of these projects done as
[52:14] you go. Um, and and just I I always say
it's better to do rates once a year than
[52:23] to rate wait five or six or 10 years.
and and uh because I know before me and
[52:32] the mayor talked before, I mean, we
we've talked about this more than once.
[52:36] You were still a council person when the
first time we talked about it, and it uh
[52:43] it's it's been it's been slowgoing to to
get to get to where you need to be. Um,
[52:50] I think when I first came here, y'all
were giving away 2,000 gallons in your
[52:56] monthly minimum, which was which was
actually giving away, you know, 27% of
[53:03] your water,
>> you know, or
[53:10] » Yeah. And right now you're doing it on
the wastewater side. And and so we we
[53:17] got it fixed on the water side, you
know, and and I think I had to to
[53:23] start off with a dollar per thousand
just to get them to to to actually take
[53:29] the free water out of there. I was like,
just get paid something for it.
[53:34] » Yeah. Was that the ordinance? It was
just not in the system,
[53:37] » right? the billing system, right? It was
actually,
[53:42] » was it? Okay.
>> So,
[53:45] » so it was I mean it
>> did not give away the first two.
[53:48] » Well, it we had a fee,
>> right?
[53:52] » Yeah.
>> For that. They never put in the system
[53:54] to budge it. They did not put it in the
system.
[53:58] » Yeah.
>> It was zero.
[54:00] » Ah, I got you.
>> Oh, yeah. [laughter]
[54:04] So you can pass all the ordinances you
want,
[54:07] » right?
>> But you got to watch that system to make
[54:10] sure and Yes.
>> Right. Make sure that it's put into the
[54:12] billing system to go along with it. So
but u all that stuff,
[54:19] » right? Well, I I feel like what we did
um was I mean I I think probably what
[54:28] you need to start thinking about doing
is is keep up with the expenses every
[54:33] year and and look at this at a year on a
yearly basis. And if if everything goes
[54:39] up 3%, you know, raise the rates 3%. Um,
but at some point once you start getting
[54:48] money in to replace this older stuff
that you have, um, at some point you
[54:55] need to think about maybe switching from
depreciation
[55:00] to asset management because depreciation
is always going to be at yesterday's
[55:06] money because when you depreciate, when
an accountant depreciates,
[55:11] they depreciate it from the they bought.
So if it was bought in 1975,
[55:18] it's at 1975 prices and depreciated from
1975.
[55:25] » So it's it's one of those things in
2026, we can't buy the same. We don't
[55:32] have the same buying power. It doesn't
cost $1,000 for a pump. It costs $7,000
[55:40] for a pump, you know. So, [laughter]
it's uh so you you might want to start
[55:47] thinking about getting away from
depreciation and go with a true asset
[55:53] management plan. So, you know what
you're going to what's it going to cost
[55:58] to replace it at today's dollars, not
yesterday's dollars. So
[56:04] » something else that happened was we got
not a bond but it was a certificate of
[56:11] obligation for 2.3 million the payment
only that's like 200,000 a year.
[56:17] » Yeah.
>> Raise the rents.
[56:19] » Uh yeah. Well I mean it's it's it's
right there says 202720
[56:26] you know.
>> Yeah.
[56:39] You said we'd like to see it. What would
you recommend for a town of our size
[56:43] that that be?
>> Um, well, it depends on what kind of
[56:47] project you're thinking about doing. Um,
>> 48 miles of water pipe, 30 miles of
[56:51] sewer pipe.
>> Um, well, 17.
[56:57] » Yeah. Um, this this is something
I always tell people if you're going to
[57:05] do a capital improvement plan, you need
backup for it. You need to get an
[57:10] engineering plan and and show
if if you're going to put a 100 grand in
[57:16] there, then you need to show that you're
going to do a 100 grand worth of
[57:20] project. You're going to go from 6 inch
line to 8 inch line or something along
[57:26] that line. you're going to go from 3inch
line to 6 inch line or whatever you have
[57:32] to do. But but capital improvement is I
will say this $100,000 when you're
[57:39] putting in lines in the ground, it's not
going to get you very far.
[57:45] » Okay. Um what what are you paying for 6
in pipe today?
[57:51] Uh, I was told one number per foot, but
that numbers change from different
[57:56] people.
>> What's the average then in
[57:59] » $12 a foot?
>> $12 a foot. $12 a foot
[58:03] » for six and five.
>> Nor,000
[58:12] or seven years,
a year, a year. Yeah.
[58:17] » But for a million dollar project. So
that's what I was asking like what what
[58:21] would be a logical number to actually
think in
[58:24] » well there there isn't a logical number.
What the other thing you got to think
[58:30] about is in seven years is it going to
cost a million dollars? You know if
[58:36] you're doing a million-doll project in
seven years down the road is that
[58:40] million-doll project actually going to
cost you a million3 you know and are you
[58:46] gonna have the million3? So, uh, it's
there's a lot of different things to
[58:53] take into consideration when you're when
you're talking about rates and talking
[58:58] about capital improvement plans.
>> Yeah. Like million dollars in a in a
[59:03] text pool account that that is reserved
for water improvements for wells or
[59:08] whatever,
>> right?
[59:10] » Uh, but
we're having to start dipping into that.
[59:15] So that I mean we're at the point we've
got to feed that kitty, put that back in
[59:20] a piggy bank to take advantage of,
>> but this is not based on what we have in
[59:26] the account and this is truly like
>> after the at the end of a fiscal year or
[59:30] whatever. We could actually take that
$100,000 and put it into an account
[59:34] along
the 100 and the 250
[59:38] » and the 250. Yes. Because it is it is a
depreciation. So, unless you use the
[59:44] depreciation money for some something,
you you had to replace a pump or
[59:51] something like that or um yes, you
should be able to put that amount of
[59:55] money in the bank and start building
your bank account.
[59:59] » Okay.
>> Um it's uh in the world is a little
[1:00:02] different.
>> Right now, we're going to take out of
[1:00:05] just tax whatever revenue we have and
we're paying all of this out of that
[1:00:09] because we're not doing any of that
here. But when you look at the
[1:00:12] wastewater plant and we had the 750,000,
we are only able it was only able to
[1:00:18] cover half of the project that you
originally wanted it to cover.
[1:00:23] » So without completing the whole bank
account to do the other half, but if you
[1:00:26] had this you finished the project. Yeah.
>> So this is what we talked about the
[1:00:32] grants. We didn't qualify for because we
were not doing this. We were not
[1:00:36] charging enough ourselves.
>> That's right.
[1:00:38] » Okay.
>> Not charging enough for our one.
[1:00:40] » Okay. Yeah, it looks like
[1:00:47] » some something else for you guys to take
away. We we do what's called a rate and
[1:00:52] salary survey uh every two years. And in
2002,
[1:00:59] the rate survey said statewide me
monthly minimums were 35.
[1:01:05] Okay. Um, in 2024
it was closer to 40, which is still over
[1:01:13] what we're looking at here. I'm
expecting the one that we're fixing to
[1:01:18] do to be close to 45
>> uh for the monthly minimums. I I think
[1:01:24] the state average has gone up that much.
About every two years, it's going up
[1:01:29] about five bucks. Um, is is what I've
been seeing. That's what I pay 58 just
[1:01:35] for my good.
>> Yeah.
[1:01:38] So,
>> so we are still even with these rates,
[1:01:40] we're still below.
This is a fairly good buy. It's really
[1:01:44] still very low for it's still that.
>> No, what's the average
[1:01:51] gallons per household for an average,000
2,000 to 10,000? Well, if they PCQ says
[1:01:59] that the average household uses 6,000,
but I found in rural areas the real
[1:02:05] numbers about 4500.
[1:02:11] » 50, what is that? 55%
of your water is from 0 to 6,000.
[1:02:18] So
[1:02:24] I but but TCQ always said that the a
normal household with kids, mom and dad
[1:02:32] kids was about 6,000 a month, you know,
with not with without a bunch of extra
[1:02:39] water and outside,
you know, so
[1:02:43] filling up a swimming pool. But but I
found in rural areas it's more along the
[1:02:48] lines of 4500
>> precious,
[1:02:51] » you know. So if you take if you take the
the
[1:02:57] let's see
92 million
[1:03:02] um divided by 12 and divided by the
number of customers you have, that's
[1:03:06] going to be your average right there.
So, so if you take the 92 million that
[1:03:13] 92649800,
I don't have my calculator, but divide
[1:03:17] it by 12 and then divide it by
this
[1:03:23] 1778.
That That's going to be your average
[1:03:27] water usage.
>> 4342.
[1:03:30] » 4342. How did I say 4500? That's pretty
close. So, [snorts and laughter]
[1:03:37] » yeah. My calculator
would look like for let's just figure
[1:03:42] out the 5,000. Yeah, using 5,000. I'd
like to just see what that number is.
[1:03:45] » What a bill would be.
>> What a bill.
[1:03:47] » Well, it would be 37
plus
[1:03:50] » Well, we using Are we using what? 335.
>> 335.
[1:03:54] » Just say 335 for the just for the this
335.
[1:03:59] So that'll be 670 for the first 2,000
>> and then 435 times three for 5,000
[1:04:10] » for the first 2,000.
>> Yeah.
[1:04:12] » 670
>> and then
[1:04:15] » which is going to be
>> 1304
[1:04:23] » 1305
>> 6110.
[1:04:26] » That's just water. That's that would
just be water
[1:04:30] » plus your
>> Did you get that number?
[1:04:32] » So you had your face which is 37
>> plus you did the 1975 plus 37.
[1:04:39] Wait
>> 37 just for them having a meter
[1:04:44] » and then the first 2,000 gallons it's
going to be 335.
[1:04:49] » The first 2,000.
>> Yeah, but that's per thousand.
[1:04:52] » That's per time two times 33. Yeah. 670.
>> And then the two to six is going to be
[1:04:59] at 435. So 435 times
>> three,000
[1:05:06] 1305.
>> Yes.
[1:05:10] So,
>> so 5675
[1:05:15] and then your wastewater
[1:05:19] » it's it's going to be
33
[1:05:27] bucks and then uh 750. So 1050. So 33 +
1050 which is going to be 4350.
[1:05:37] » Yeah.
So
[1:05:42] $125
>> $125 for
[1:05:45] » versus what was it?
>> The old rates.
[1:05:54] » We need to figure that too. So the old
rates
[1:05:58] » that would be $2.
[1:06:07] $3 times three. That would be $9.
[1:06:14] And then the old What was the old rate
as far as
[1:06:18] 2967?
What was the story?
[1:06:30] There was
[1:06:35] 224
[1:06:48] » on the old rate.
>> No. 31 + 350
[1:06:52] » 33. Didn't we go the wastewater was 33
up?
[1:06:55] » No, he's she's doing the whole
34.
[1:07:12] » Yeah,
>> it's that close. is one now.
[1:07:16] » No, there there is on this, but on the
old rates, I think you were uniform
[1:07:21] rate.
>> Just a flat rate one.
[1:07:23] » Yeah. I don't think you charge per
thousand on your tour.
[1:07:26] » No, now they charge per thousand, but it
wasn't. It was the after the first two.
[1:07:31] » Oh,
>> because we're giving the first two away,
[1:07:33] » right? So, so it would only be the 3,000
that you would be adding up on on that
[1:07:46] » 76 and seven. So, increase.
[1:07:59] Yeah.
[1:08:05] Have we gone up on the um trash yet?
>> That's just for the that's going to
[1:08:10] » be in effect this bill which that's
something I also want to remind
[1:08:13] everybody when we started the submission
to all the changing the process with fun
[1:08:19] view. We were advised that they would
prefer60
[1:08:23] days notice. Um that's yes. So just
whenever we do get ready to start
[1:08:30] adjusting any of these rates
>> three months out anyway
[1:08:35] » you might know now
>> I mean we we tried to have it in effect
[1:08:38] by August and they just didn't do
another
[1:08:41] » the one thing I don't want to happen is
this to hit in December
[1:08:45] » don't want it
>> so I would
[1:08:50] I think we need to think about doing it
in increments maybe
[1:08:55] » what increments months. Six months. Six
months. Six months. Six months. Instead
[1:09:00] of hit it all at one time.
>> If we do six months.
[1:09:02] » We'll talk about it.
>> Every six months
[1:09:08] get to where we need instead of all
something. Come up with something.
[1:09:15] » Well, that's going to push you if you
did it that way.
[1:09:18] » You know, if you were to raise it every
every three if you were to raise it 3%
[1:09:21] every year like you should, well, then
that's going to
[1:09:25] » Well, okay. Let me let me back up a
minute. So if we're basically going up
[1:09:28] $30 a month for average household that
uses 5,000 gallons to go up 15 now and
[1:09:34] six months go up 15 more and then at
that point forward move up where we need
[1:09:38] to double the cost to make the changes
within the system.
[1:09:43] » What's that?
>> You'll have double the cost to make the
[1:09:46] change.
be like charged and
[1:09:51] » but with a with60
days you said
[1:09:59] » yeah but with 160 days as soon as you go
up you're going to have to vote on the
[1:10:04] next going up just to just to be where
you need to because it's almost the six
[1:10:10] month 160 days you know I mean that's
that's that's
[1:10:15] » that's four or
you know
[1:10:22] » they should be on these bills that just
okay because I didn't want it all to
[1:10:28] happen once at least that's
[1:10:35] » it's going to 160 days from now will be
let's see
[1:10:42] » September
[1:10:46] » a few It' be around December, January,
February,
[1:10:53] » about
>> if if you did it right now, it wouldn't
[1:10:57] happen till January
>> or February.
[1:11:00] » Yeah. It's going to have to come out
[1:11:06] » with with that kind of
>> restaurant
[1:11:10] $600
>> with with that kind of uh with that kind
[1:11:16] of time.
>> How much money is that?
[1:11:18] » So right now you're looking at January
or February before anything would go if
[1:11:23] you voted on it today.
So
[1:11:27] » and what do you pay right now for a base
figure?
[1:11:30] I don't know.
I'm assuming
[1:11:41] » so one thing
[1:11:51] the bigger meters are definitely need
to.
[1:11:57] So Judy, you know, we talked about how
much water loss we've got by now.
[1:12:03] Are we going to take that in
consideration
[1:12:06] as far as
>> this is only comparing water sold
[1:12:10] not water produced?
>> Yes. This is only water what's actually
[1:12:14] gone.
>> So what you're losing isn't factored
[1:12:16] into here. the uh
>> this is just
[1:12:24] » this this is it's it's always what goes
through the meter is is what we always
[1:12:29] use because everything else that
that you have is is uh there's there's
[1:12:37] no way to tell it. But I will say this
that if you have really old meters in
[1:12:42] this system that you're losing a lot of
money right through there probably 15 to
[1:12:48] 25%
just on the meters not reading
[1:12:53] correctly.
>> They're not as accurate as they're old.
[1:12:56] They're not they don't meters are
getting red.
[1:13:00] » Huh?
[1:13:04] » All of them are actually getting red. I
mean if it's it's showing the base or
[1:13:08] you know like we've run in the situation
before
[1:13:13] » but uh
>> all of them that are on the list are
[1:13:16] getting
>> we are finding that there are exist
[1:13:26] » at the plant are they is that one of
these
[1:13:29] » because I think a lot of this that we're
finding now would help our numbers where
[1:13:33] we wouldn't snap into as much
>> it's not in guy took it out, but it was
[1:13:38] a huge
>> was not in the water. You took it out of
[1:13:42] the water and everything.
>> So,
[1:13:48] » yeah, it's it's not included.
[1:13:54] I just But
>> this is with the assumption that the
[1:13:58] meters were reading accurately
at various gallons of usage.
[1:14:05] Is there eight meters older?
>> We have about 150 that are older.
[1:14:13] » When you say older, what?
>> And a new meter just 58 is $38. So 150
[1:14:19] times the new
[laughter]
[1:14:23] » if we replace if we replace our entire
system with new meters, it is1
[1:14:29] million59.
>> Here's the thing. All that sounds great.
[1:14:33] We're not even doing the minimum. We're
not even bringing the minimum to even
[1:14:37] cover expenses, much less make
improvements.
[1:14:40] » Yes.
>> And this hurts. This is going to hurt
[1:14:42] some people and I don't know how we get
around it. The reason it hurts sometimes
[1:14:46] previous councils have not done anything
>> to keep up with
[1:14:53] or anything. As as I said, I I did put
[1:15:03] » We keep going like this. It's going to
be
[1:15:07] one of those places.
>> I hate to laugh, but
[1:15:12] » yeah.
[1:15:19] Yeah.
[1:15:26] It's underwater. It says base rate and
that shows how much you have at each.
[1:15:33] Then it'll say waste water from
sanitation.
[1:15:39] Trying to pull up mine.
[1:15:43] » The only reason I asked you that I was
just curious if currently y'all were
[1:15:47] charging more for the bigger meters.
maybe not this amount that we had up
[1:15:51] here, but if you were charging more or
if everybody's base rate depict didn't
[1:15:55] matter the meter size or not was that
original 29 or whatever it was.
[1:15:59] » Because then, [clears throat] you know,
like I say, then that that person's bill
[1:16:02] is going to go up quite a bit.
[clears throat]
[1:16:06] » Right.
But a difference between
[1:16:10] 250 and 296 isn't.
>> No, but I'm just saying if it is that
[1:16:14] $29, I mean the difference in $29 and
925 for that 4 inch compound there's a
[1:16:21] big difference
[1:16:26] $1,000.
>> Yeah.
[1:16:30] We need to think about that too for like
a commercial business. If they haven't
[1:16:34] have not been paying those bigger rates
or the bigger
[1:16:38] meter size,
>> tell them they got lucky.
[1:16:40] » Are they We haven't
>> They've been getting free water this
[1:16:43] whole time.
>> How much did
[1:16:49] they
>> No, they definitely need to get the hit.
[1:16:52] I'm talking about like a restaurant. If
their bill goes up a thousand a month,
[1:16:56] they may say, "I'm not saying
>> I don't know."
[1:17:03] » So, right now,
>> if he's only been paying $29
[1:17:09] » for a 2 in
>> I don't know who's been charging.
[1:17:12] » That's what I was asking. Have they been
charging more for the bigger meters or
[1:17:16] has the base rate been I would just
assume that the base rate had been the
[1:17:20] same over the cross? No.
Oh, so you do have an older
[1:17:25] » 135 wasn't been charging charges more.
>> Okay. And so and and does that go up as
[1:17:30] it goes bigger? You're charging more
stuff right now?
[1:17:32] » We don't have anything else.
>> We don't have anything else.
[1:17:37] » Okay. So there's a chance that
[1:17:42] » Okay. [snorts] So then you'll have seven
>> 11 customers below that. That would go
[1:17:48] up significantly.
you know, go from 135 to 592 and then
[1:17:53] 135 to 925
[1:17:58] » your school.
>> But if if you are
[1:18:10] » that we discovered in system,
it's
[1:18:16] it's gallons per thousand. So, um,
[1:18:22] instead of taking two two and a half
million and dividing it 5,000 and
[1:18:28] charging, you know, 2521,
they divided the,000 off of the dollar
[1:18:33] amount. And so they were actually
getting charged.
[1:18:37] Z86.
[1:18:41] So they were charging basically
less like
[1:18:48] and we can't back billions eight. Well,
well, we can I'm going to be bringing it
[1:18:52] to you saying their bill went from $7 or
$800 a month to 15,000
[1:19:00] mistake corrected
know y'all probably you know
[1:19:10] » should never be I'm saying even before
this change
[1:19:18] » last 520
[1:19:23] water.
[1:19:29] » They should be in shel.
I'm sure
[1:19:33] » they didn't know.
[1:19:36] » We didn't have anybody in the last
several [snorts] offices up there that
[1:19:40] didn't realize that.
[1:19:45] [clears throat]
>> Word.
[1:19:48] $14,000 a month
>> for how long? Right.
[1:19:54] » That's just half what we just made.
There was a problem as much on
[1:19:59] » the city main agreement was that paid
>> in June of 24 about 20,000
[1:20:07] city
was a lot more than that.
[1:20:11] That was weird.
[1:20:16] So
>> we're not making decision decisions. We
[1:20:21] can't
>> Yes.
[1:20:28] We can we can
we
[1:20:34] » I'll be honest. I think be pissed.
>> Yes. But again,
[1:20:40] everyone in this town knows that we
they're going to look at it that it's
[1:20:44] being raised to fix the problems. They
don't know this is just to
[1:20:50] get us where we should be.
>> Break even.
[1:20:52] » Yeah.
>> Yeah.
[1:20:57] » Well, we have to raise
[1:21:03] at least do this first. This is the
first step to fixing water. Not this
[1:21:08] year.
>> You like,
[1:21:09] » but if we keep the rates, we will never
fix anything.
[1:21:12] » Well, in a year, you would have
400500
[1:21:16] almost $600,000 between water and
wastewater and reserves in Seattle.
[1:21:21] » So, that would not
>> We could fix that.
[1:21:23] » You could fix stuff with
>> Yeah. But on the timeline just I mean if
[1:21:28] it's truly 160 days you're already
looking at if you vote on it tonight
[1:21:34] you're already looking at you're into
January right so you wouldn't have to
[1:21:39] worry about it you were worried about
hitting it during Christmas and stuff
[1:21:44] » and and so it would already be past that
so
[1:21:49] » yeah we have to educate people about it
just hits you have
[1:21:54] Yeah,
>> it's a horrible marketing thing. We have
[1:21:58] to make sure we
>> town hall do all that. We have to push
[1:22:02] this out there so they're not
blindsided.
[1:22:05] » True.
[1:22:09] » Lastly
about water.
[1:22:13] Well, they did. Yeah.
>> They stood up and they said, "We're
[1:22:17] willing to pay for improvements to be
made to this city that yes, raise, you
[1:22:21] know, pay the raise." That's what they
said. The next time we had one, not
[1:22:27] anybody came.
>> Yeah.
[1:22:29] » Um,
[1:22:32] I can't I can't think that the people
that support this are going to come to
[1:22:36] the town meeting and say, "Yay, we
support this." The only people that are
[1:22:38] going to come are the ones that
>> come on a town hall. I'm just saying
[1:22:43] » they know better water, but they don't
want to support the price increase to
[1:22:47] get to that point.
>> You can't worry about no matter what we
[1:22:50] do.
[1:22:55] » We got to do what's right for the city.
[1:23:00] » That has to be done. We got to move
forward.
[1:23:01] » Yes.
>> And yes, I don't see that anything's
[1:23:05] changed on change your opinion of that.
Um, I think at this point we just get on
[1:23:13] there and play with the numbers and see
if 335 or you want 350 or you want 385
[1:23:18] or you know where you want it to land in
the various uh
[1:23:23] » put that on the
>> on the city Facebook page and let him
[1:23:28] share.
>> Yes.
[1:23:32] exactly why we're doing whatever we're
doing it for.
[1:23:37] » Range right here that says 335 to 385.
>> I don't know whether y'all want me to
[1:23:43] populate that with 335 or that 385. So
that's why we need
[1:23:52] 335
[1:23:57] » that's never
the 385 gave you the lower base rate.
[1:24:04] » Okay.
>> But producing the same amount of money.
[1:24:06] » Yeah.
>> That's your options. That that's what
[1:24:09] she has
[1:24:13] » to the 335
[1:24:18] » almost not the last sheet but the first
summary sheet you're going to see 37 and
[1:24:25] 33 on the wastewater 37 for the water
and 33 on the wastewater and the blocks
[1:24:33] that go along with that on the last
sheet that's that's in the little packet
[1:24:39] that I gave you, you're going to see
that if you instead of being
[1:24:45] » Yeah.
>> So at 35 monthly minimum 31 on the
[1:24:50] wastewater, but the price of water and
wastewater has gone up. So these are the
[1:24:56] kind of differences that you're looking
at.
[1:25:04] You have
commercial
[1:25:08] there's no difference.
It's just a matter of the meters.
[1:25:12] » When you get to industrial, it does
change.
[1:25:17] Uh Mr. King's recommendations don't make
don't differentiate for industrial
[1:25:23] versus residential.
>> It doesn't really differentiate. it it
[1:25:27] goes by meter size solely and and that's
what we've always used because that's
[1:25:33] what the public utility commission and
PCQ always wanted to see. So when you
[1:25:40] look at
[1:25:43] you have the potential to be going down
[1:25:49] » I don't know what the industrial are but
>> if you are using more than $40,000
[1:25:56] 40,000 gallons of water right now
[1:26:01] that's four times 8.6 six if you're
outside the city limits and then it
[1:26:06] would be a 3 in
626 right now they're at 79 98 at the
[1:26:13] way that it's right now
>> in the base
[1:26:17] » oh I'm saying the base rate which is a
3inch compound will be um 92 and if I
[1:26:24] use 40
inch
[1:26:26] » yeah we do
>> okay I was with 4 inch
[1:26:31] » that would be industrial 4
I guess I thought that
[1:26:37] page outside city limit. Yeah. Sorry.
>> And and I'll address this. Me and Julie
[1:26:46] have talked about it.
>> The type of actually just because I
[1:26:49] looked at it today 860. Sorry about
that. That 860 if you did times 4 that's
[1:26:57] 3440. And then plus your base of 522,
it would actually be a less bill than it
[1:27:03] is right now.
>> No,
[1:27:07] » but we even charging on that.
>> We had even charging on that on the old
[1:27:12] rates.
[1:27:15] » Yes.
I'm just trying to understand.
[1:27:19] » We're talking about here.
>> Well, no, but we were charging dollar
[1:27:22] 135 because we didn't have anything well
larger on here than 2 in.
[1:27:27] » I'm sorry. So we didn't have anything
larger on here than a 2 inch. So 135 is
[1:27:31] what we've been charged for.
>> Yes. As a current rate
[1:27:35] » that's going up.
>> So it would go up, but it still wouldn't
[1:27:38] be. I mean, understand your point, but
it still go up, right?
[1:27:45] » I thought the new base for was going up
135.
[1:27:50] paper.
>> Well, I didn't
[1:27:54] mean
>> what I'm looking at.
[1:27:57] » It's not
they actually go up. They go up in size
[1:28:02] difference that you're earning in your
>> potentially losing your gallon. When you
[1:28:07] go down to $3,
when you go down to three, four, five,
[1:28:13] six, seven, eight, 35, then whatever it
was, you're not going to be like that.
[1:28:34] city. Wolf City to Wolf City.
I'm not doing this anymore.
[1:28:56] took over.
[1:29:12] » But we're only paying $8.
[1:29:17] 30.
>> Oh, she went industrial
[1:29:21] here.
>> So, right now it's the same thing.
[1:29:26] » So, what's the difference? The
commercial and industrial show.
[1:29:30] » It's all the same.
[1:29:41] » I guess I'm not saying that we've ever
charged a different rate for
[1:29:45] industrial.
[1:29:50] It's always been $8
[1:29:55] or industrial or commercial
>> industrial industrial
[1:29:59] » industrial
>> same page
[1:30:03] or your own
>> page six outside city limits industrial.
[1:30:08] » Okay. Outside city lines is $41 $71
121 171 22388
[1:30:17] and 31835.
>> Yes. And then 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8. Yes. All
[1:30:22] y'all. Mhm.
>> And we're going up on all of that.
[1:30:27] » Yeah. This year going up everything,
including the price for 1,000 gallons. I
[1:30:34] will I will say this just so all of you
know that if if you charge your outside
[1:30:42] the city customers more than you charge
your inside the city customers they are
[1:30:49] the only people who can put you in front
of a rate hearing.
[1:30:53] » Okay.
>> If you charge if you charge exactly the
[1:30:56] same amount as your inside city
customers they have no recourse. But a
[1:31:02] lot of cities they'll charge one and a
half times or double the rates outside
[1:31:06] the city limits. They'll say,
>> you know,
[1:31:09] » so all of our rates are the same on
those.
[1:31:12] » Yeah. I'm just saying that
>> I mean all of our rates are the same.
[1:31:15] The only thing that changes is the
well the rate by me size, but they're
[1:31:20] getting charged by gallons the same
amount all the way across the board.
[1:31:25] » It's just
>> Yeah. But but even even at that even
[1:31:29] they could still and it only takes 10%
of them. So if there's a hundred out
[1:31:34] there
>> only 10 of them would have to sign a
[1:31:37] petition and then the PUC is going to
say why does it cost you more money to
[1:31:42] get them water than inside the city
limits
[1:31:47] outside?
>> I've seen a lot do it. I've I've always
[1:31:52] suggested not to.
>> They've gone over some of them,
[1:31:55] » but
[1:31:58] I I' most of them do and and I I've
suggested to a lot of them not to just
[1:32:05] for that reason, especially when you're
making a big increase like you are right
[1:32:10] now.
>> Yeah, I can see where it being brought
[1:32:11] up.
>> Yeah. So,
[1:32:16] » but if you have a if you have a pump
station or something solely for those
[1:32:20] people on the outside that you're
>> using that pump station and you wouldn't
[1:32:24] be using that pump station if you didn't
have those out of city that is your
[1:32:27] justification.
>> That could be your validation, your
[1:32:31] justification,
>> but I I don't think you have that. So I
[1:32:35] I would if you had a special lift
station on the waist side if you had
[1:32:41] » Okay.
>> You know there there could be reasons
[1:32:44] why you could charge them more. Yes. But
uh but you need to have something to
[1:32:49] back your back it up is what I'm trying
to say. So
[1:32:57] » So what is what is the plan?
[1:33:05] continue with the YouTube
thing. We're almost done.
[1:33:15] What are your thoughts on that? Mr. Tom
[1:33:24] think about more
talking to
[1:33:29] how many how many years I've been
allowing this to happen yet. And
[1:33:34] » probably soon for cornies,
[laughter]
[1:33:36] » maybe they'll actually, you know,
they'll
[1:33:39] » Well, one thing sticks my mind that
little deal that you had the other night
[1:33:42] that they donated to that was a ball
face.
[1:33:45] » Yep.
>> Um,
[1:33:49] this is going We've got to do something.
[snorts] We are in running in red. We've
[1:33:56] got a little less than a million dollars
and this budget is $160 something,000
[1:34:06] that we're going to be in the red this
year. And if you raise the taxes that
[1:34:11] much, my goodness.
>> So, we're have to pull it out of out of
[1:34:15] our account. But it needs to be
>> That's the one thing it does do. It it
[1:34:20] allows us to keep the rate of tax so
much to cover that if we're going up on
[1:34:23] the rates in the water. Yes.
>> Yeah.
[1:34:25] » So that that's a that's a positive thing
to me.
[1:34:29] » Yeah. When we wrap this up to publish it
make that point.
[1:34:34] » Um not only that, but you shouldn't you
shouldn't have to use tax money to fund
[1:34:40] water and waste water. They should pay
for themselves.
[1:34:44] » Water should fund water.
Yes. For sure.
[1:34:48] » We see this all the time.
[1:34:54] You can't go, you can't stay in business
>> if you don't raise your price. Look at
[1:34:58] McDonald's. I mean, you used to be able
to get a dollar cheeseburger. That
[1:35:01] dollar cheeseburger is now a $2.19
cheeseburger.
[1:35:07] » Yeah.
[1:35:11] » It's homemade.
[1:35:14] » Well, I don't know if that's possible to
do based on what we're told by
[1:35:23] Well, that's that's how long it takes
them to get the I guess to
[1:35:28] get the sanitation done in what three
months
[1:35:34] » they going to help anybody
make any happier if we split up.
[1:35:43] » You're going to make them mad twice.
>> You're going to make them mad twice.
[1:35:46] » Yes.
>> Yeah. Like we went up. Oh We went
[1:35:48] up again. Yes.
>> Or do you do it all at one time?
[1:35:52] » [clears throat]
[laughter]
[1:36:00] » There's commercial owners here.
>> You got commercial property.
[1:36:06] » You got it. I got it. We're all going to
ad
[1:36:11] » You're going to hear complaints either
way. Do you want to hear two sets of
[1:36:14] complaints or one? You know, and it's
going to be the same people.
[1:36:19] » Yeah. Yeah, I mean
>> probably
[1:36:28] these rates need to be
[1:36:34] » we don't have to go through this again
and we can if we get grants and stuff in
[1:36:40] if there's some way that that price
comes down we're going to bring the
[1:36:45] price down.
>> Yes.
[1:36:48] Don't ever drop them once you get them
up there. Don't ever go backwards,
[1:36:55] » right? That's what you hope for.
[1:37:08] » We can lower or not
to be a regular policy to review this
[1:37:14] every year. Every year. Okay.
>> Does it have to be at budget time?
[1:37:19] » No.
[1:37:28] » We do it early here. Then we're not
adjusted for
[1:37:32] that time either.
>> We should have dealt with it. So they
[1:37:37] could have it in the system. So we'll
have it September the 1. You know what
[1:37:41] I'm saying?
>> That's
[1:37:44] we start to go up on it now. that
actually could lower the tax rate that
[1:37:47] we're
currently talking about.
[1:37:51] » No, because we're taking that out of
text. Well, you take it out of text.
[1:37:55] » You just have to review it or decide
upon it before May of each year because
[1:37:58] then you're going into budget season and
making your decisions there. So, if you
[1:38:03] had whatever rate you wanted
established,
[1:38:06] » then you know what it's going to
generate and project it forward.
[1:38:10] » January, winter months payments. 12
by that one. The last rate increased.
[1:38:22] » Yeah, but it was a it was a little one.
I remember
[1:38:27] just the base rate.
>> Yeah,
[1:38:30] » the base rate and then we brought that
tier in there.
[1:38:36] » Right. Right.
>> We stop losing giving away the 20. Yeah.
[1:38:42] » Yeah, that's right.
>> 335. At 335, that's going to make
[1:38:50] basically the the base rate north $7.
>> Yes. Yes.
[1:38:57] $7. The base rate goes up 733, I think.
And then
[1:39:02] that's at 335.
>> It goes from 29. What you're looking at
[1:39:09] » based on the number that 4342 that we
looked at and we use an average of 5,000
[1:39:13] 56% of the population in this town is
going to pay $30 more if we go $23
[1:39:21] » right off the bat that's going to go up
30 bucks.
[1:39:24] » Yes.
>> So whatever bill was add 30 to it at 56%
[1:39:29] then the tiers below that 30 go.
the if we take
[1:39:36] » you're using more than 5,000. Yes.
>> Yeah.
[1:39:39] » If if we take 100% of the depreciation
out, this is why I'm saying you're not
[1:39:45] really funding depreciation. It starts
looking a lot like your rates right now.
[1:39:51] Okay. So, that I put a zero in there.
>> And uh
[1:39:57] when I put it back, then it's where it
needs to be.
[1:40:02] » Yeah. So I just [snorts] that's that's
something that
[1:40:07] if if you don't fund it, you never have
any money to do anything in
[1:40:13] » tax dollars to fix
it. Right.
[1:40:18] » So,
>> yeah. And that's
[1:40:22] » Yeah,
we've been
[1:40:25] spoke to them
money to have another whale somewhere
[1:40:30] and be putting more water meters out all
over the place.
[1:40:39] » You all know where I stand.
>> You know where I stand. [laughter]
[1:40:43] » I'm not sure I do. Scott, you can tell
me. Yeah.
[1:40:46] » Well, there's two positives there. One,
if we get the money and we're able to
[1:40:50] fix stuff for
after the the year, I think it's a great
[1:40:54] thing.
They're going to but
[1:40:59] explain right
amount of money to actually start
[1:41:05] improving things that I think it'll all
be better off.
[1:41:09] » Yeah.
>> And the other positive thing,
[1:41:11] » the ranks won't go up till the nonprofit
council
[1:41:16] » [laughter]
[1:41:18] » They won't be calling everybody.
>> You'll still number
[1:41:25] one.
>> Don't give me your number. [laughter]
[1:41:31] » I don't care how much money we have.
It's not going to completely fix the
[1:41:34] brown water. It's always going to be
there. So,
[1:41:37] » you'll have to replace taps and that's
>> No, no, I get that. But still that I
[1:41:40] don't I don't
we're still going to have brown water
[1:41:45] every now and then.
>> Well, everybody even you break a p
[1:41:49] you're going to have brown water.
>> So in other words, they're going to
[1:41:52] those same people that complain
>> about the going to complain about it
[1:41:56] going up and then complain
[1:42:01] » which we all know. And unfortunately
around East Texas you have what's called
[1:42:07] tannins and it comes from oak leaves.
You have tannins in the water. others.
[1:42:12] » And and there's it's just one of those
things that yes, it it does stain the
[1:42:18] water and when you put the chlorine in
it, it actually cleans it up, but when
[1:42:23] you change the chemistry in the hot
water heater and things like that, then
[1:42:29] that tannins will fall out in their hot
water heaters and most of it is going to
[1:42:34] be in their hot water heater. They need
to hook a hose up on the bottom of their
[1:42:38] hot water heater and drain their, you
know, every now and again.
[1:42:45] » Hey, I have to do it at my house because
I got iron. You know, it's red water.
[1:42:54] » Yeah.
[1:42:57] Tell them to flush more often if it's
brown in the
[1:43:01] [laughter]
[1:43:05] » defining.
[1:43:15] I just got out of the shower and all
that one night. They said your 10 out of
[1:43:21] the water was off.
>> Yeah. 10 water breaks in the last week.
[1:43:30] » Everybody's seeing it. That's Yeah,
that's a good old ground.
[1:43:34] » So dry. We got all that rain and then it
got dry.
[1:43:46] » I mean,
[1:43:49] you know, that's kind of where I
located. Did we have a questions
[1:43:54] for I don't think so. This was so
helpful,
[1:43:56] » Mr. Paul. This is so helpful.
>> Yeah,
[1:43:58] » it's not an easy pill to the uh
>> he's very he's very helpful in how I
[1:44:05] mean it makes sense to me.
>> It makes sense to me now.
[1:44:08] » Uh why we got to do this,
>> right? I it's it's important and and
[1:44:15] that's why I always stress doing water
rates uh when I was a circuit writer
[1:44:20] because I thought it was the best thing
that I could do for water systems to get
[1:44:26] them to where they needed to be, you
know, making the amount of money they
[1:44:30] needed to be so they can do projects on
their own instead of having to go beg
[1:44:35] for money or whatever, you know, and and
or having to take out loans, you know, I
[1:44:41] would rather put
$200,000 worth of CIP in there instead
[1:44:47] of them having to pay back a huge note
to on a loan that they got to pay for
[1:44:53] for 40 years at, you know, 4% interest
or six or whatever it is. So,
[1:45:02] » yeah.
[1:45:15] » Here, you sleep,
>> right?
[1:45:20] » I don't want to pay the money, but you
know what choice do you have,
[1:45:24] » right? Yeah.
>> So, you know,
[1:45:26] » you enjoy being able to turn your faucet
on and that water coming out. I just
[1:45:29] like got
[1:45:35] » here to get your feet wet. We had two
well count. We had three people run for
[1:45:39] three spots on the counter.
>> Far I'm concerned. If you don't get
[1:45:43] involved, shut your mouth.
>> Agree.
[1:45:45] » All right.
>> Yeah.
[1:45:47] » Way I looked at it really
[1:45:55] long ways and uh
So so appreciative of you, Paul. Yeah.
[1:46:01] » You're welcome.
>> You didn't have to come tonight, but we
[1:46:05] needed we needed this. We needed you
here.
[1:46:11] » Won't let it go to the wayside like
>> good.
[1:46:15] » We did this tonight. This has been
recorded tonight,
[1:46:19] » right? and the citizens can view this
uh and hopefully we can uh I mean this
[1:46:31] is good very good information
>> right
[1:46:33] » and understand what where we're coming
from we don't want to raise the rates
[1:46:39] but there is no choice at this
>> no
[1:46:42] » and
so
[1:46:46] um how far you come here
>> uh this side Mac and Oasis actually.
[1:46:51] » Yeah.
>> And we're about to
[1:46:52] » I live in Celeste. So, not too too far.
>> Yeah. So,
[1:46:56] » in Celeste, just north of Greenville.
>> Okay.
[1:46:59] » Only about an hour.
>> This is Yeah.
[1:47:03] » 15. Yeah.
>> Yeah.
[1:47:06] » We cover a lot of area. This is not for
me. I go to Amarillo. I go
[1:47:11] » Yeah. And and before
>> if y'all don't have any other questions,
[1:47:17] Sunday men go. And thank you. We
>> we can rrestle the rest of this stuff
[1:47:25] out. Thank you so much.
>> Well, they I thought we were going to
[1:47:29] have to go back to old school to tell
you that I didn't think we were gonna
[1:47:34] » I don't know if I do. But you have my
part as well since Paul is gonna be
[1:47:40] going. He's switched over here.
So if you have any more questions about
[1:47:44] it more
[1:48:11] she's
technically a registered voter here yet.