[2:26] good evening can everybody hear me okay
[2:28] great thank you
[2:30] so we're going to get started in a
[2:31] couple of
[2:38] minutes so one thing I would like to ask
[2:41] every just a couple housekeeping items
[2:42] if uh if you haven't signed in please do
[2:47] so there's two Sig in sheets at each of
[2:49] the
[2:52] entryways feel free to grab some cookies
[2:55] and and water that's important
[2:58] housekeeping
[3:05] oh and I would also ask if if anybody
[3:07] has a laptops or phones with microphones
[3:10] to disable them if they could because it
[3:13] picks up the signal in the room and
[3:14] we'll get feedback on these
[3:22] microphones so I believe are we ready to
[3:24] get started
[3:26] everyone okay well um again
[3:30] welcome my name is Dr Greg Kramer I'm
[3:33] the superintendent parks and trees and
[3:35] the tree warden for town of Greenwich
[3:38] and uh this is our our first kickoff
[3:40] meeting related to our master plan for
[3:42] pomarance tuckman and we have our GZA
[3:45] team here I'll introduce very shortly um
[3:49] tonight I'd like everybody to kind of
[3:51] give the feedback um that they feel
[3:53] they'd like to express there's no good
[3:56] or bad feedback is just feedback so I
[3:58] want this to be an open forum for for
[4:01] discussion and thoughts and and ideas
[4:05] because that's how we develop really
[4:06] good plans and from there team will take
[4:09] all that information and start to
[4:11] develop uh a plan so right now there is no P plan per se but there is
[4:17] some ideas and again this is an open for
[4:19] to express those
[4:22] ideas so I would like to introduce our
[4:25] team who's here today uh Steven Leo is
[4:29] the principal in charge in planning for
[4:31] GZA um he's been with the organization
[4:34] for 35 years in planning and permitting
[4:36] and environmental analysis of natural
[4:38] resources and management
[4:40] projects um he specializes in land use
[4:43] planning Trail assessment and planning
[4:45] wet L assessment environmental impact
[4:47] evaluations as well as federal state and
[4:49] local
[4:51] permitting uh Mr Leo has been involved
[4:53] with numerous large scale planning
[4:54] efforts throughout the Northeast United
[4:56] States with a focus on
[4:58] Connecticut uh where there is a broad
[5:00] knowledge of many technical elements
[5:01] allow him to successfully manage large
[5:03] scale interdisciplinary and complex
[5:06] projects
[5:08] um the next is our is Daniel
[5:11] Shaw he's our project manager and point
[5:14] of
[5:14] contact uh Dan has been a project
[5:17] manager and primary point for contact
[5:19] during this process he's a registered
[5:22] landscape architect who's created
[5:23] landscape designs for a range of clients
[5:26] including Architects municipalities and
[5:28] state agencies
[5:30] uh to name a few Dan's background has
[5:32] given him a broad knowledge of design
[5:34] public spaces Parks Trails playgrounds
[5:36] and waterfronts his knowledge in green
[5:38] infrastructure resilience planning and
[5:40] natural and build environments to
[5:42] promote Health ecology restoration and
[5:44] planning at both neighborhood and
[5:45] Regional
[5:47] levels uh Dan is a collaborator and
[5:49] Communicator with skilled in participate
[5:51] design and public speaking will actively
[5:53] involved in a community engagement
[5:54] process he's an active listener making
[5:57] interactions with the community and
[5:59] accountable and positive
[6:03] progress um to my immediate left is CC
[6:07] Saunders she's a historical
[6:09] documentation specialist um she's the
[6:12] principal of historic preservation since
[6:14] 1982 has been served and a principal
[6:16] investigator and primary author and
[6:18] public manager for numerous cultural
[6:19] resource projects she's met professional
[6:22] qualifications for national park
[6:25] services uh Miss Saunders currently
[6:27] serves as the governor's appointed
[6:28] member of the Connecticut State historic
[6:30] preservation review board a position
[6:32] she's held since
[6:34] 1993 the board is also for reviewing and
[6:36] editing Statewide National registered
[6:38] nominations before transfer to
[6:40] Department of interior national park
[6:42] services where can Connecticut Urban
[6:44] rule in Waterfront sites Miss Saunders
[6:46] has directed a full range of projects
[6:48] that encourages I'm sorry encompasses
[6:50] archival research archaeological
[6:52] evaluation and field investigations
[6:54] structural assessment visual impacts
[6:56] analysis master plan development she's
[6:59] also unique prior experiences having
[7:01] served the town of granch Conservation
[7:04] Commission and also with us tonight is
[7:07] Kora atani
[7:11] anania um she's an ecological scientist
[7:14] she's helped out in ecological site
[7:16] visits in the park with staff her
[7:18] background is in biology with a degree
[7:20] in Environmental
[7:22] Management she's worked with a range of
[7:25] clients including local Connecticut
[7:26] towns state agencies and involving
[7:30] projects focusing on trail maintenance
[7:32] ecological assessment and living
[7:34] shorelines so that's our team uh from
[7:37] GZA and then I also would would like to
[7:40] introduce some of our staff here on on
[7:42] board we have Dan Carlson who's our
[7:45] assistant Park director and Darren
[7:49] Wigglesworth who's our park operations
[7:52] manager so without further Ado um I
[7:56] believe we can get the presentation uh
[7:58] present start so Dan if you'd like to
[8:01] take it
[8:02] away thanks for the introduction Greg
[8:05] just gonna start sharing my
[8:24] screen thank you all for coming out can
[8:27] you all hear me all right thanks to
[8:30] anyone listening at home on Zoom so
[8:33] we're here to talk about the pommerin
[8:34] and tuckman site here in Greenwich it's
[8:37] a town-owned pair of parcels that is
[8:40] used as a public open space for Passive
[8:44] Recreation and has has been in town
[8:46] ownership um at this point for a couple
[8:49] of decades and it saw an uptick in use
[8:53] around 2020 and the need for a long
[8:56] range vision for the plan to to manage
[8:58] it going forward was was highlighted
[9:00] during that time
[9:03] so um this project is to create an
[9:07] overall guiding vision for the p and
[9:09] tuckman
[9:11] site so this is a map showing the the
[9:14] project area the pomerance parcel is the
[9:17] larger one that's uh to the west and the
[9:20] tuckman parcel is the slightly smaller
[9:23] one to the east they together comprise
[9:26] just over a 100 acres of open space
[9:30] and the significance of this as an open
[9:33] space is uh not only its its size and
[9:37] the resource that it offers but also its
[9:41] uh connectivity to other parks in the
[9:44] neighborhood as well as it's being
[9:46] walking distance from you know the the
[9:48] center of ccob and neighborhoods where
[9:51] lots of people live so as I'm sure you
[9:53] know it's it's a valuable resource for
[9:55] those
[9:56] reasons um where we're currently at is
[9:59] we're creating this master plan and
[10:02] we're at the stage right now where we're
[10:04] not drafting recommendations or anything
[10:08] like that yet we've been working on
[10:09] background research site investigation
[10:12] historical research and now we're here
[10:14] to present background information about
[10:17] the project and the site with you all
[10:19] and to have a discussion in the second
[10:21] half of the evening tonight to get your
[10:23] ideas your thoughts your experiences of
[10:26] how you use the site and we'll be
[10:28] recording those ideas so that we can um
[10:31] reflect those in the recommendations
[10:33] that we're going to produce for this
[10:35] project so that's that's what this slide
[10:37] here summarizes this is where we're at
[10:40] in the scope of the project so in bold
[10:43] there is where we're at now um the the
[10:46] next steps after we uh there's this
[10:50] public meeting simultaneous with this
[10:52] there's an online survey that's been
[10:54] launched and so far we've had a lot of
[10:58] uh participants I think we're already up
[10:59] to 500 responses on it it poses a range
[11:03] of questions about how you use the Pomer
[11:05] and tuckman park what you see as the
[11:08] priorities there um and you know
[11:13] together with the discussion that we'll
[11:14] have tonight we're taking that feedback
[11:16] into account as we then move on to the
[11:19] next step um in the coming weeks of
[11:22] starting to draft uh initial
[11:24] recommendations for the master plan so
[11:26] when we get to that stage there will be
[11:27] a second public meeting it hasn't been
[11:29] scheduled yet it may be in December but
[11:32] we'll we'll post that when it's been
[11:34] planned and at that point we'll share uh
[11:37] preliminary ideas that we've started to draw together as a project team um
[11:42] for some further discussion and feedback
[11:44] on that and then we'll finalize the
[11:46] master plan after
[11:49] that so to give a little background um
[11:53] we'll get into the the history of this really interesting pair of sites
[11:58] but they they were purchased by the town
[11:59] in um 2000 starting with the pomerance
[12:03] parcel which is 75 acres and when the
[12:06] town acquired that piece of land they
[12:09] put together a committee to look at what
[12:11] the best use for as a public uh resource
[12:15] this this could be and the the pomerans
[12:17] planning committee in 2001 recommended
[12:18] to keep the the land used as open space
[12:23] protected for Passive
[12:25] Recreation and um their recommend
[12:29] included a few modest site improvements
[12:32] which have been implemented there's a
[12:33] small parking area and there's a
[12:36] restroom and they looked at the
[12:38] feasibility of various uses that had
[12:40] been floated for that site in 2007 um
[12:44] the town had the opportunity to buy the
[12:47] 31 acre tuckman parcel and so now
[12:49] together those two Parcels have formed
[12:51] one contiguous Park and really the two
[12:55] Parcels are seamlessly connected with
[12:57] the Montgomery pinetum as as well so it
[13:01] all together forms U an extensive open
[13:03] space and then uh various uh open space
[13:08] plans and planning uh reports and
[13:11] Studies have been done by the town since
[13:12] then which this open space uh supports
[13:17] the goals of and I'll I'll just run
[13:18] through those quickly in a second and as
[13:20] I mentioned in in 2020 with the pandemic
[13:24] people staying at home we saw an uptick
[13:26] in the use of this park and um you know
[13:30] when a park starts to become almost
[13:32] loved to death you have to start to say
[13:34] okay well how are we going to sustain
[13:36] this level of foot traffic and
[13:37] visitorship and all of this so that
[13:39] highlighted the need to take a step back
[13:41] and look at the master plan for how we
[13:43] prioritize improvements in this park and
[13:45] how we Steward it um so just a few of
[13:48] those reports I was talking about so the
[13:49] town looked at the pomerance parcel in
[13:51] 2001 made some recommendations there's a
[13:54] cob neighborhood plan which um this pair
[13:58] of pars as open space supports goals of
[14:02] the uh 2019 Greenwich plan of
[14:04] conservation and development um has
[14:07] goals that the uh Palmer and tuckman
[14:11] site can
[14:13] support um protection of of this par
[14:16] pair of parcels also supports the 2022
[14:19] Greenwich open space plan when we look
[14:20] at things like you know protecting
[14:22] undeveloped land from uh development
[14:25] that is one aspect of the the two
[14:27] Parcels that will get into a little bit
[14:29] tonight it's um owned by the town but
[14:31] these two Parcels don't have any kind of
[14:34] formal restriction from development
[14:36] placed on them there's there's no
[14:38] conservation easements or anything like
[14:39] that so being owned by the town is a
[14:42] measure of protection but it's not
[14:43] technically uh fully protected from
[14:45] development so that and that is one of
[14:47] our goals going into this project the
[14:50] project team feels it would benefit from
[14:53] protection um and this is an excerpt
[14:56] from that open space plan the pommer and tuckman Parcels are down at the
[15:01] bottom of that area that's circled but
[15:03] what this is showing that these two
[15:06] Parcels form a uh Greenway of uh
[15:10] connectivity to larger Open Spaces in
[15:12] the region the myis uh Greenway is not
[15:16] far to the north from this so that adds
[15:20] you know another level of priority to to
[15:22] protecting open space when it connects
[15:24] other existing open
[15:27] spaces so the the goals that our project
[15:30] team you know uh with the town here have
[15:34] going into this project are to form a
[15:36] master plan for Palmer and tuckman that
[15:40] protects provides a pathway for
[15:42] protecting the parcels from
[15:45] development a strategy for mitigating
[15:47] climate change impacts in the
[15:50] community enhancing biodiversity and
[15:52] climate resilience in the parcels
[15:55] identifying appropriate recreational
[15:57] uses inside Improv
[16:00] improvements finding an appropriate
[16:02] strategy for celebrating the site's
[16:04] unique history we'll get into that in a
[16:05] moment um CCE our historical consultant
[16:08] dug up there's a ton of History here and
[16:11] as you probably know there's a lot of
[16:12] remnants of that sites of of that
[16:14] history on the
[16:16] site so finding out how to celebrate and
[16:18] feature that if we choose um building
[16:21] Community understanding of the project
[16:22] site and background in part we're doing
[16:24] that that tonight by sharing the
[16:26] background with you all and then forming
[16:29] a master plan based on all of that that
[16:30] provides a guiding Vision big picture
[16:33] and then also uh priority projects and
[16:37] improvements that can be implemented and
[16:39] we'll identify um you know paths forward
[16:43] and and a master plan like this can be
[16:45] used as a resource for applying for
[16:46] funding for pursuing grants showing that
[16:49] there's been a assessment and
[16:51] prioritization of what the the most
[16:53] meaningful improvements would be for a
[16:54] space like
[16:57] this so with that I'm going to turn it
[17:00] over to Cece to share the site's history
[17:03] with
[17:03] us thank you Dan um I'm gonna stand up
[17:08] because I'm so short that I would really
[17:10] be a talking
[17:12] head
[17:14] um as Greg said I am an
[17:18] archaeologist and I must say that my
[17:21] first Stateside archaeology
[17:25] project was in costop you know 45 years
[17:31] ago uh and I know that most of you know
[17:34] this history of kostov this parcel but
[17:41] uh bear with me I'm just going to do
[17:42] some highlights I have written many many
[17:46] pages beyond what I'm giving but for
[17:49] your patience I've cut it that back down
[17:52] but I will give you the whole thing
[17:57] okay um
[18:00] most of the settlers who came to the
[18:04] kasab
[18:05] area started farming uh mainly for the
[18:09] Staples for their own
[18:11] family uh and that was the 18th century
[18:14] uh it was one of the first densely
[18:16] populated areas because of the harbor it
[18:20] was myanus River provided a fantastic
[18:24] Harbor uh the soil wasn't so good as you
[18:27] know it's Rocky right all of you who
[18:29] work in a garden uh they were able
[18:31] mainly to do apples
[18:34] potatoes and
[18:36] onions uh but as the colonist continued
[18:39] to arrive the remaining indigenous
[18:43] inhabitants M speaking members of the
[18:47] larger Delaware
[18:48] Nation uh they were pushed
[18:52] out um and I'm gonna say that they were
[18:56] part of the sanoi
[18:59] satum you had other smaller tribes along
[19:03] the coastline but they were all part of
[19:05] the sil sanoi Saum which is west of the
[19:09] Norwalk fivemile
[19:11] River we have radiocarbon dates in ccob
[19:15] of 13,000 years ago we know that in
[19:20] Connecticut um you have many
[19:23] more
[19:25] archaeological sites and in um
[19:28] particular in he's trying to do my
[19:31] slides based on my speech but I'm not
[19:34] following it am I okay here you are oh
[19:37] close enough okay you want to see this
[19:40] yeah there you go um I'd like to
[19:43] congratulate West uh grenwich it was the
[19:46] second town in the state to enact
[19:50] archaeological preservation as part of
[19:53] your planning and zoning and so you were
[19:56] seeing not that I think you could PR
[19:58] read it but this is one of many pages of
[20:01] about more than 75 archaeological sites
[20:04] in Greenwich and so we know that 13,000
[20:08] years ago is just a drop in the bucket
[20:11] because we have radiocarbon dates in
[20:14] Connecticut from 12,000 years ago um but
[20:18] I think you should be proud of
[20:20] greenwich's contribution to this record
[20:23] for the state it was the spread of
[20:25] exotic diseases as well as ever growing
[20:28] conflicts with settlers and with the
[20:30] British army um and
[20:34] intermarriage with uh the settlers um
[20:37] with uh freed blacks and with enslaved
[20:43] Africans that really disp and the
[20:47] dispersal of the
[20:48] sanoi so that you do not have a
[20:52] representative First Nation here we have
[20:56] a record of the
[20:59] last occupation which was about 30 Acres
[21:04] um in the ccab area near Exit 4 that's
[21:08] the greinwich Deeds show that uh that
[21:11] was the last occupation of Native
[21:15] American tribes here okay um the first
[21:20] big transformation of this string of
[21:23] little Villages along the coastline was
[21:26] the introduction of Roads first the
[21:30] Boston Post Road or Benjamin Franklin's
[21:33] uh postal route um that came um the uh
[21:41] 1806 was when it came through the area
[21:44] which is now the Greenwich High
[21:46] School through that uh Israel putnam's
[21:50] Hill that's when it was blasted that was
[21:52] the first time they had the blasting
[21:53] available there um then you had the
[21:56] railroad come through in 18 19
[21:59] 48 uh that was the big turning point
[22:03] because you
[22:05] were part of the big city now uh
[22:08] Greenwich changed its name and at that
[22:10] time from Horseneck to Greenwich horck
[22:14] being a little too provincial it was
[22:16] felt by 1850 you already have three
[22:19] trains a day going between Greenwich and
[22:21] New
[22:22] York uh within a few more years there
[22:24] were seven trains a day going back and
[22:26] forth and by 1902 you had a trolley that
[22:30] would connect you with Forester and to
[22:32] the East
[22:34] Stamford so it was that timing that gave
[22:38] you this outsides market and connections
[22:42] with the bigger
[22:43] world uh it was this combined ease of
[22:46] using the railroad excuse me I already
[22:49] have up
[22:50] here uh our
[22:53] parcel Orchard Street on one side Bible
[22:57] Street on the the other uh it was the
[23:00] combined ease of traffic and getting
[23:04] back and forth that introduced the next
[23:06] big era which you all know about the era
[23:09] between 1870 and 1920 the greatest
[23:13] States so you could come out to
[23:16] Greenwich and have
[23:19] a an Italian Villa or you could have
[23:24] um an aristocratic estate or or or a
[23:29] French Chateau whatever you chose to
[23:31] create on your private
[23:34] property and then you would have
[23:38] outbuildings to evoke this image and
[23:42] that's the reason you had these greatest
[23:44] States I'm sure all of you have seen the
[23:47] book that came out what 30 year 30 40
[23:50] years ago the greatest States and it was
[23:53] very very much a dominant part of this
[23:58] property and how it was settled and cre
[24:02] and created for the the first family
[24:05] that took
[24:06] over um it was the same time period that
[24:09] the ccob harbor was turned into um a
[24:13] famous art colony so we had a lot going
[24:16] on at this time now what is now the
[24:19] pomeran tuckman property it began as a I
[24:23] think originally it was like an 80 and a
[24:26] half undeveloped acres formed from uh
[24:29] two uh
[24:31] farms and it was a landscape full of
[24:34] hillocks streams bounded by Wetlands
[24:37] craggy Bedrock
[24:39] outcroppings uh you've all walked it
[24:42] you've stumbled on some things here and
[24:44] there I think on those U on those lovely
[24:46] walks through there as I have um this is
[24:49] what it was like in 1900 when Ernest
[24:52] Thompson Satan bought it and it was
[24:55] ultimately transformed into Satan
[24:58] version of a gentleman's
[25:02] estate Satan was a ruggedly
[25:05] handsome
[25:07] Outdoorsman illustrator and
[25:10] rur when he moved to America in
[25:14] 1896 he had been living in
[25:17] Canada and while he was in Canada he
[25:20] worked out in
[25:21] Manitoba and became very enamored of
[25:24] wolves and the wildlife and so forth out
[25:27] in Manitoba and he brought that love of
[25:30] the outside and nature with him when he
[25:33] came to Kasa he arrived with his um
[25:39] wife a wealthy um
[25:42] American uh and he was well known
[25:45] already at that time for his animal
[25:48] stories he had written his first book
[25:53] wild animals I have
[25:55] known and he was
[25:58] part of an elite group of writers who
[26:01] could actually support himself and
[26:03] support himself very well with his
[26:06] writing uh magazine articles and books
[26:09] this was an extremely popular
[26:12] book
[26:14] um there is a quote that his a a Critic
[26:19] at the time when this book came out
[26:21] wrote not only a naturalist and an
[26:24] animal artist of very high attainments
[26:27] but is a master of a literary style that
[26:30] is at once graphic and fascinating
[26:32] though doubtless much of the charms of
[26:34] the book is due to his sympathetic love
[26:36] of the wild animals and I think that
[26:39] comes across every time you read any of
[26:42] his
[26:43] Works um Now by
[26:46] 1900 Satan had earned enough money and
[26:50] he and his wife and that's his wife's
[26:52] name on the deed map there gray
[26:55] sceleton uh and he found this property
[26:58] because he loved its
[27:02] wildness and people who went property
[27:05] shopping with him noted that his
[27:08] excitement was in the fact that it was
[27:11] so wild that he could Envision the
[27:15] animals and and the cragginess and and
[27:18] the reason you probably love it
[27:20] too um he earlier in 1800 oh I'm talking
[27:26] about the greatest States
[27:28] okay I want you to
[27:31] know that the great States was already
[27:33] here because Montgomery pinea was a
[27:36] great estate right we had some on North
[27:40] Palmer just over the mananas river also
[27:44] so Satan was already as part of the
[27:48] Great EST States when he came in at
[27:51] 1900 the Montgomery Pine Edom used to
[27:53] have an 18 Mansion 18 room mansion um
[27:58] there it had uh Barns and uh all kinds
[28:03] of support animals and so forth so uh
[28:06] Satan was moving right into that
[28:09] area Satan christened his new cab estate
[28:15] windig now he says that when he told
[28:20] everyone that windigo was named for his
[28:24] British
[28:26] Scottish always back and forth British
[28:28] or Scottish um
[28:30] ancestors now he often claimed to have a
[28:36] connection with a
[28:39] um royal family or lineage we don't know
[28:43] if that was ever documented and we don't
[28:46] know how uh secure that was but he often
[28:51] used that other houses he had later on
[28:54] he also named for these British
[28:56] ancestors
[28:58] now Wendy
[28:59] ghoul uh was reached by a driveway a
[29:03] quarter of a mile uphill driveway not
[29:06] from where you see the driveway today
[29:08] but uh originally all the way at the
[29:11] very southern
[29:12] end now you see these lovely um Gates
[29:17] and
[29:19] um this the gates and the gate post and
[29:25] the rod
[29:26] iron keep that in
[29:28] mind now um he built the house along his
[29:33] own design plans it's not
[29:37] necessarily
[29:38] um a fabulous architectural
[29:42] design but it's his combination
[29:46] of seatan style u boxy frames boxy rooms
[29:51] um terracotta roof um it was his own
[29:56] design and and because we have no record
[29:58] of who designed
[30:00] it it was only a family home was only
[30:03] one part of his facet of
[30:07] transformation he also designed and
[30:09] Damned a brook to create the pond he um
[30:13] added folies around the house around the
[30:17] grounds um he had the a root cellar put
[30:21] in we don't know there's your there's
[30:23] your U Folly Springhouse folly
[30:28] he also put in
[30:30] um Al also brought in lots of animals to
[30:34] help
[30:36] um populate the area he brought in he
[30:39] imported squirrels we can hardly imagine
[30:42] why you would import squirrels but we
[30:43] have enough but he brought in squirrels
[30:46] otter Fox water file
[30:50] peacocks and over a hundred
[30:53] skunks he was doing some cross breeding
[30:56] experiments with skunks
[30:58] and so um that was very interesting uh
[31:02] now if you look back on the Gate of the
[31:07] house keep this gate in mind uh Satan
[31:11] built the gate and all the walls around
[31:14] the property because he didn't like the
[31:17] local kids coming in and killing the
[31:19] small animals he felt you should live
[31:22] with nature and of course the small
[31:24] young boys were were used to being able
[31:28] to walk onto that property and kill the
[31:30] squirrels or the rabbits I mean that was
[31:33] their childhood activity and he said no no you can't do that so he kept
[31:39] that's the reason he put up the wall but
[31:42] that didn't keep the boys from being
[31:44] very angry and then they put lwd uh
[31:48] graffiti and terrible signs on his Gates
[31:52] and around the walls so instead of going
[31:55] to the uh local police Poli and
[31:58] complaining what he did is he went to
[32:00] the costop
[32:01] school because his theory was
[32:05] that not one boy in a thousand is born
[32:09] bad bad boys have Badness thrust upon
[32:13] them okay so he's thinking okay I can do
[32:17] this I can help these boys so he talked
[32:20] to them it was about the Easter of
[32:23] 1902 and he invited them to come and
[32:26] spend the weekend on his
[32:28] property and they had a hoot and a half
[32:33] they enjoyed it there are some wonderful
[32:36] oral oral history about these young boys
[32:41] and what they had fun doing while on the
[32:44] property with Ernest Thompson
[32:48] Sean they let me see if I I want to make
[32:50] sure I get this they had days and nights
[32:53] filled with learning about indigenous
[32:55] folklore camping tp's environmental
[32:59] stewardship canoeing on the pond and
[33:01] learning the sport of archery and woven
[33:05] into these fun group activities with
[33:07] principles of living
[33:10] immorality this was wonderful for them
[33:14] it's what was important to Ernest
[33:16] Thompson
[33:17] Satan and it went on and on for this is
[33:22] the young this is the man who gave this
[33:26] picture to the Greenwich oral history um
[33:31] it was quite fun for them I think
[33:34] situated up high on the wendou property
[33:37] Satan and his he called him the
[33:39] Woodcraft Indians created a permanent
[33:42] ceremonial
[33:43] Center a large it was two large stones
[33:46] that he set up um perpendicular using
[33:50] cement which I don't think was original
[33:53] indigenous cement but he put them up
[33:56] together and uh you can still go and uh
[34:00] find it today this medicine rock is
[34:02] still intact and it's on the trail now
[34:07] Satan wrote articles on how he worked
[34:10] with these young boys and it's published
[34:12] in the Ladies Home
[34:14] Journal and these articles
[34:17] became kind of his uh subsequent book on
[34:21] the Woodcraft and this is what he pulled
[34:24] together um as a of how he was setting
[34:28] up this Woodcraft Indians now what
[34:32] happened was um while Satan was in
[34:36] England on a speaking tour he met
[34:39] Colonel Robert pton Powell now Robert
[34:44] Payton Powell was a soldier a retired
[34:48] Soldier he had been in the bore war and
[34:52] he had an idea of how to teach scouting
[34:58] because he had been a scout in the war
[35:02] so it was his idea to do scouting for
[35:06] boys that was in England and Satan met
[35:09] with him and they exchanged papers and
[35:12] so forth and so that's how the Woodcraft
[35:15] Indians became part of the founding of
[35:18] the Boy Scouts of
[35:20] America um in 1910 Satan helped find uh
[35:25] found excuse me the Boy Scouts of
[35:27] America and he became the chief Scout
[35:29] for the first five
[35:31] years um he severed ties with the Boy
[35:35] Scouts because they were um
[35:39] including the use of guns and so forth
[35:43] in the uh Boy Scouts and he did not
[35:46] approve of that still trying to protect
[35:48] the
[35:49] animals um in
[35:53] 1912 the
[35:54] seans sell windigo
[35:57] to New York Finance year excuse me
[36:01] Maurice work time it was for
[36:05] $250,000 the most expensive real estate
[36:08] transaction of the
[36:10] time Ernest Satan Thompson eventually
[36:13] moved to Santa Fe and lived until 1946
[36:16] his daughter
[36:17] Anna I'm sure all of you know this from
[36:20] your childhood she was um the author of
[36:25] many popular historical novels including
[36:27] the winthrip woman which was partly uh
[36:30] set in Old
[36:31] grenwich now Maurice was a successful
[36:36] investor of a very successful industrial
[36:39] father industrialist
[36:42] father um and he enjoyed Wendy ghoul in
[36:45] ccob as a summer weekend
[36:49] retreat
[36:50] um I don't know if any of you know this
[36:53] but in 1931 it burned had a very very bad fire there and when they
[36:58] rebuilt it they got rid of the third
[37:01] floor and uh the arcaded
[37:04] porch but
[37:06] um wor time was uh quite an impressive
[37:11] man he was the founder and former
[37:13] director of the New York theater Guild
[37:16] an avid art
[37:19] collector all now at the fog Museum in h
[37:23] Harvard he was a champion chess player
[37:26] he is credited with founding the
[37:30] initiating the American Russian uh chess
[37:34] battles uh foremost he served as
[37:37] president of the American Jewish
[37:39] committee and he was honorary Trustee of
[37:42] the Federation of Jewish philanthropies
[37:44] of New
[37:45] York now over
[37:47] time the the acreage
[37:51] grew uh it was at this time that you see
[37:55] here was 150 Acres this is a 1938
[38:00] map and you can't it's very hard to tell
[38:04] but up close you can see that it's
[38:07] already divided into the Estates
[38:10] separate Estates for the work times
[38:12] daughters they had um uh three
[38:17] daughters um and the property was
[38:20] divided at that
[38:22] time the um Ann langum Barbara tuckman
[38:27] and
[38:28] Josephine uh
[38:31] pomerance now as noted on the two plaqu
[38:35] installed on the windy
[38:37] walls on June 7th 1942
[38:42] Zionist uh and selected American Jewish
[38:44] committee leaders met
[38:46] informally at
[38:48] wyou um and developed the ccob formula
[38:53] that advocated unrestricted Jewish
[38:56] immigrant
[38:57] ation um to make organized and auton
[39:01] autonomous Commonwealth the costop
[39:04] formula caused a great deal of
[39:07] controversy among the American Jewish
[39:10] committee leadership and was
[39:13] rejected uh only after World War II when
[39:16] the full extent of the Holocaust became
[39:18] known and no no refuge was found for its
[39:21] survivors did the dissenting factions
[39:24] join in an effort to establish a Jewish
[39:27] State Maurice uh werheim died in 1950 at
[39:32] the age of 62 but his children and
[39:35] grandchildren have carried
[39:37] on his legacy and also Satan's Legacy
[39:41] that's all about caring and
[39:44] stewardship Josephine W
[39:47] time pomerance Josephine wor pomerans
[39:52] spearheaded efforts for nuclear arms
[39:54] control as founder head of the committee
[39:57] for World development and World
[40:00] disarmament she later helped lead the
[40:03] non-governmental committee on
[40:06] disarmament a group that played a major
[40:09] role in promoting disarmament at the UN
[40:12] W times's daughter Barbara tuckman
[40:15] two-time Pulitzer prize-winning
[40:17] historian grew up and continued to live
[40:20] in ccob on a part-time
[40:23] basis there is the claim that Barbara
[40:25] tuckman is the one woman who unwittingly
[40:28] taught JFK
[40:30] strategy after reading her guns of
[40:34] August Jack Kennedy bought dozens and
[40:36] dozens of copies of the
[40:39] book and he considered it such an
[40:42] insightful examination of what led up to
[40:46] World War I that he distributed it to US military leaders
[40:53] with the command read it Kennedy
[40:57] credited the insights gain from
[40:58] tuckman's book to have been very
[41:02] instrumental in settling the Cuban
[41:05] Missile
[41:07] Crisis Barbara tuckman had three
[41:09] daughters Jessica Lucy and
[41:12] Elma barbera's writing Studio or cabin
[41:15] still stands on the 43 acre Alman
[41:18] tuckman parcel at the southern limit of
[41:22] the outside the Sean worktime party
[41:27] Jessica excuse me Jessica tuckman
[41:32] Matthews at one time was director of
[41:36] global issues for the National Security
[41:38] Council she is a recognized American
[41:41] International Affairs expert with a
[41:44] focus on climate and energy defense and
[41:46] Security nuclear weapons and conflict
[41:49] and
[41:50] governance now RI
[41:53] pomerance Josephine son is an American
[41:58] environmentalist he is a distinguished
[42:00] senior Arctic policy fellow of the
[42:03] woodwell climate Research Center since
[42:06] the late 1970s he has played a key role
[42:09] in ra raising awareness of the risk of
[42:11] climate change in US government
[42:16] policy until
[42:19] 2001 Satan's Wendy ghoul was a
[42:22] functioning residential home the town of
[42:25] granch IR ired the property
[42:28] approximately 75 Acres the town with
[42:31] much public input and
[42:34] consideration stabilize the historic
[42:37] resources for the
[42:38] future today the remaining stone walls
[42:41] outline the first story of the original
[42:44] windy
[42:46] gou all of us are currently in the
[42:49] process of considering the best path for
[42:52] the future for the public and the varied
[42:55] resources how do we care for preserve
[42:59] celebrate and enjoy this historical and
[43:02] natural
[43:04] treasure thanks
[43:09] Cey and that all leads us to the site
[43:12] today so it has this incredible Rich
[43:15] history and there's remnants of that
[43:18] physically all throughout the landscape
[43:20] which is what makes the Pomer and
[43:21] tuckman site so interesting to explore
[43:24] so I'm going to go through some of the
[43:26] existing uh features that a visitor
[43:29] nowadays uh experiences when you come to this park it's as we said uh it's set
[43:36] aside for Passive Recreation that was um
[43:39] the goal that was achieved in 2001 when
[43:41] the palmerin parcel was first bought the
[43:44] park today offers
[43:47] um hiking trails or probably the the
[43:50] main feature all throughout its acreage
[43:53] there's a parking area off of orchards
[43:56] Street um there's signage that orients
[43:59] visitors right off of that parking area
[44:02] and restrooms not far from there in the
[44:05] center of the park uh at the pond which
[44:08] you can see on in the middle of the map
[44:10] there there's um a dam which affords
[44:14] Waterfront uh access uh fishing is
[44:18] allowed boating is not allowed there
[44:19] isn't really access to to bring a boat
[44:22] to the interior of the park and then the
[44:25] rest of it is Earth Earth and trails
[44:27] used for hiking jogging and dog walking
[44:30] so the two main points of arrival that
[44:33] are somewhat formalized are the Orchard
[44:35] Street parking lot which has that
[44:37] signage kiosk with the map on the left
[44:39] and then on the right there's a more
[44:40] modest signage kiosk welcoming people
[44:43] from the Bible Street
[44:44] playground there's also informal access
[44:47] from um the Montgomery Pine nedum that
[44:50] just sort of weaves its way into the
[44:52] pomerat and tuckman parcels and as I
[44:54] described there's the the parking area
[44:57] the next few slides you'll see where we
[44:59] are on the map with these photos with
[45:01] the little yellow circle on the map
[45:03] that's going to move around so over here
[45:06] is the Bible Street
[45:09] entrance there's um a few former
[45:13] driveways which are paved with asphalt
[45:17] um and there's stone dust Paving along
[45:21] the dam and then the remainder of the
[45:24] site is access
[45:26] by informal packed Earth uh hiking
[45:30] trails there's one place where there's a
[45:32] wooden Boardwalk crossing a wetland in
[45:34] the north crossing over Brothers Brook
[45:37] and there's a little bit of directional
[45:39] signage throughout the park not a ton
[45:42] there's um some Blaze Trails so a bit of
[45:46] um organization to keep people oriented
[45:49] while while walking here there's a rest
[45:52] one restroom not far from the parking
[45:55] area
[45:57] this is that Folly that CC was telling
[46:00] us about constructed back during the
[46:02] Great EST States
[46:03] era these are basically decorative
[46:05] structures built to make the landscape
[46:08] look almost more historic than it was at
[46:10] the time but now even the Great Mansion
[46:12] is a
[46:15] Folly this is the dam this is kind of
[46:17] one of the most of the sit's forested
[46:19] the dam is the place where it opens up
[46:21] to to a wider Vista um you get out into
[46:25] the sun
[46:26] spend time by the
[46:29] water the um house up on the west side
[46:33] of the pond was a more modern house that
[46:37] was um occupied I think by the the
[46:39] pomerans family and when the town
[46:41] acquired this property in 2001 part of
[46:44] the um recommendations that the
[46:47] committee put together were to find a
[46:49] nonprofit who could uh lease this house
[46:53] that wouldn't be incompatible with the
[46:55] rest of the property prop use as a park
[46:57] so there's a a nonprofit abelis is a
[46:59] organization that assists people living
[47:01] with disabilities and they there's uh
[47:05] people who live here and uh stay here
[47:07] during the day and it's um compatible it
[47:10] seems to be compatible with the uses of the site and it's a good use for that
[47:14] house so that that part's a little bit
[47:16] off limits to the public um the so on
[47:20] the other side across from that from the
[47:22] pond is this Sunken Garden back from SE
[47:26] era which has no special attention
[47:29] brought to it it's off of one of the
[47:31] formalized trails you just sort of
[47:33] stumble upon it if you're walking um a
[47:37] little bit off Trail but it's kind of an
[47:39] interesting place with its retaining
[47:41] walls and it's terracing uh despite
[47:43] overgrowth it still kind of reads like a
[47:47] garden whereas up on top of the hill the
[47:50] windy ghoul Mansion ruins have been
[47:52] purposely curated by the town uh um The
[47:56] Mansion was becoming dilapidated and
[48:00] posed a lot of risks and um was falling
[48:03] into disrepair so it was decided I think
[48:05] it was back in 2014 to selectively
[48:08] demolish the house but leave the rugged
[48:10] intact Stone first floor so now it it
[48:12] provides this kind of interesting ruin
[48:16] that is surrounded by a mowed lawn up on
[48:18] the top of the hill that really centers
[48:21] the site's history kind of in the middle
[48:22] of the park and flanking it are a couple
[48:24] of overlooks to the East and to the West
[48:27] which um at times can be overgrown with
[48:30] vegetation that kind of blocks the
[48:33] views there's a boardwalk that um spans
[48:37] between the two hilltops at sedan's
[48:39] former
[48:40] mansion and this leads over one of the paths down in the woods over to the
[48:48] um former swimming pool of windy ghoul
[48:51] which has since been filled in but its
[48:53] Stone Terraces and stairs are still
[48:57] there semi intact in the woods overgrown
[49:00] with invasive Vines and Plants and
[49:03] Things there's a lot of cor we'll talk
[49:05] about this in a moment a lot of
[49:05] residential garden plants that sort of
[49:08] became established in the woods because
[49:10] of its history as a overgrown you know
[49:13] former Mansion site there's this
[49:15] interesting feature down here associated
[49:17] with Wy ghoul The Root Cellar on the
[49:19] hillside coming down from Windy ghoul
[49:22] down in the woods and that's just you
[49:24] can walk right into it it's just kind of
[49:26] left in an unaltered State a bit of
[49:28] graffiti in there
[49:31] today um and cor is going to talk a bit
[49:34] about the existing ecological conditions
[49:36] on the
[49:37] site hello okay uh so yeah as Dan
[49:42] mentioned uh a site visit was conducted
[49:45] in early September that focused on
[49:48] reviewing the ecological details
[49:50] characteristics of the park the map on
[49:53] screen was put together based on these
[49:55] characteristics that we observed um most
[49:58] of these characteristics are influenced
[50:01] namely from geography much of this park
[50:03] is either high and Rocky or wet and low
[50:07] and that therefore then influences what
[50:10] vegetation you have growing throughout
[50:12] the park um over story and under story
[50:17] vegetation um so much of the vegetation
[50:21] that we observed on site is fairly
[50:23] typical of a southern New England Forest
[50:25] a lot of the dominant trees included
[50:28] American Beach Red Oak red maple Norway
[50:31] maple which is invasive um but uh one
[50:35] big characteristic is the tulip trees we
[50:38] um we observed quite a few um large
[50:41] tulip stands on the property um tulip poplar it's the same species with
[50:48] different names um is has quite a large
[50:52] range um but if you're looking at just
[50:55] New England it's mostly concentrated in
[50:57] Southern New England so Connecticut
[50:59] Massachusetts Rhode Island so it's
[51:01] fairly um it's more common in our lower
[51:08] States um another feature that we were
[51:10] looking for was Wetlands um before going
[51:13] out to the site we were um we conducted
[51:16] desktop surveys to kind of see where
[51:19] Wetlands had been formally mapped
[51:21] looking at hydric soils and then going
[51:24] out to those parts of the park and
[51:26] seeing if the desktop survey was
[51:29] confirmed um by on-site
[51:32] investigations um no formal delineations
[51:36] were conducted it was mostly kind of
[51:38] just observ quick quick observations of
[51:41] soil and looking at signs of um
[51:44] hydrology and Wetland
[51:46] vegetation um these are some examples
[51:48] the lawn behind the um restrooms near
[51:52] the main parking area is a notable wet
[51:54] area there's also areas along trails
[51:57] that are quite notable we found some
[51:58] areas that had not been formerly mapped
[52:01] that appeared to be additional Wetlands
[52:03] on property as
[52:06] well um another feature that people are
[52:09] probably familiar with if you've been to
[52:10] the park is the meadow there's a trail
[52:12] that leads from The Root Cellar up and
[52:15] around the meadow um Meadows are could
[52:19] be a Meadows are a fairly unique habitat
[52:23] um typically when you find a meadow you
[52:25] develop it because it's flat and it's
[52:27] there's not much to get rid of but
[52:30] Meadows also make for important habitats
[52:33] not just pollinators but also a lot of
[52:36] native birds will um use Meadows for
[52:38] nesting and for cover habitat um there
[52:42] are we found evidence of what look to be
[52:45] quite a few invasives in the meadow I'll
[52:47] get deeper into invasives in a later
[52:49] slide but and also what looks to be
[52:52] evidence of encroachment from trees that
[52:55] are encroaching on the meadow from the
[52:57] sides and also trees and invasives that
[52:59] are growing up um within the meadow
[53:01] itself but that is typical um it's
[53:05] common for habitats to shift and change
[53:07] typically if you want to keep a meadow a
[53:10] meadow that means you would need to
[53:11] maintain it as a
[53:14] meadow and here we are sorry um
[53:18] invasives everyone's favorite topic um
[53:22] as Dan mentioned before um with the
[53:25] previous history of the site being
[53:27] homesteads being um uh big Estates it's
[53:30] common to have invasives sites with a
[53:32] lot of previous disturbance it's easy
[53:35] for invasives to establish themselves a
[53:37] lot of these many of you here are
[53:39] probably familiar with youve probably
[53:41] seen them in your own backyards tree of
[53:43] Heaven is a common one um Japanese
[53:47] Barberry is a very common one um spotter
[53:50] Lantern fly has gotten a lot of
[53:51] attention in recent years uh Beach Leaf
[53:54] Disease is becoming a growing problem in
[53:57] Connecticut and much of the rest of the
[53:59] country um Japanese silk um Japanese
[54:02] silk grass many of the invasives that we
[54:04] observe though were mostly concentrated
[54:07] along the trail edges rather than within
[54:10] the park interior that does make sense
[54:13] where you have most of the activity most
[54:15] of the movement of people it's easier
[54:17] for invasives to establish and move
[54:20] around with AIDS with the AIDS of
[54:24] um people moving
[54:29] around so to start to summarize all of
[54:33] the the background information that we
[54:34] were looking into we're going to talk
[54:35] about challenges and opportunities at at
[54:39] this unique site so cor was just talking
[54:42] about in invasive uh you know plant
[54:45] diseases invasive plant
[54:47] species um in addition to some of the
[54:50] ones cor mentioned there's um you know
[54:53] jumping worms or a newcomer to the area
[54:56] that affects the soil there's there's a
[54:58] host of of challenges that that are
[55:00] typical to a large property like
[55:03] this um there's impacts of foot traffic
[55:07] on Trails which is ongoing we talked
[55:09] about that at the beginning one of the
[55:11] slides cor shared shows where you have
[55:15] ponding in a trail people tend to walk
[55:18] around it to avoid that and then that
[55:20] causes the trail to get wider and wider so that gets into you know m
[55:25] maintenance and uh planning of where
[55:27] Trails go it's a one one of the great
[55:30] uses of the park is it's well used for
[55:33] walking dogs but with that comes um the
[55:36] need to pick up dog waste and that
[55:37] that's often cited as a challenge um and
[55:42] then just general ongoing maintenance of
[55:43] trails trees and structures on the site
[55:46] so some some images of some of those
[55:50] challenges uh Trail erosion is a common
[55:53] one again not unique to this site but
[55:55] this site has you know a few instances
[55:58] where the clear space where foot traffic
[56:01] goes is also where water flows as it
[56:03] makes its way downhill and that scourers
[56:04] and causes
[56:07] damage and of course there's loads of
[56:10] opportunities for a site as unique as
[56:14] this as we've been over it's not just a
[56:18] woodland it's a woodland that's full of
[56:20] uh remnants of greenwich's
[56:23] History there's
[56:25] a diverse Forest composition mix of
[56:28] species there's Scenic diverse
[56:31] Landscapes it it's a very interesting
[56:33] place to walk
[56:35] through for that reason um including
[56:37] Meadow the meadow itself has the
[56:39] potential for enhancement as as a
[56:42] pollinator habitat it serves that role
[56:44] already but there's there's further
[56:46] opportunity
[56:47] there um thinking larger in scale the site's walking distance from a lot
[56:53] of people's homes it's connected to the
[56:55] neighborhood and the other neighborhood
[56:57] parks there could be potential for
[57:00] additional signage whether that's
[57:02] historic ecological educational trail
[57:05] maps this gets into the the content of
[57:08] what we'll
[57:10] discuss um the rest the rest of the the
[57:13] evening so what we're planning to do is
[57:16] we'll turn it around to all of you and
[57:19] we'll um spend some time together um
[57:23] having some kind of question an answer
[57:25] discussion time it's open-ended you know
[57:28] we haven't started drafting
[57:30] recommendations for this plan yet but um
[57:34] the goal as I think you can probably
[57:36] tell from the presentation so far is
[57:38] we're not trying to reinvent the wheel
[57:40] here with the Palmer and tuckman site I
[57:42] think we probably all agree that it's well used uh as a site for Passive
[57:47] Recreation and provides a valuable
[57:48] resource and the goal is probably
[57:51] finding out how to Steward it and
[57:53] protect it so it can Contin continue to
[57:56] serve as that resource that seems to be
[57:58] so well
[58:02] valued so that's yeah so we'll just open
[58:06] it up and I'm just for the sake of
[58:07] anybody who's watching on Zoom because
[58:09] this is being
[58:11] recorded um since you all don't have
[58:13] microphones as a formality I'm going to
[58:15] do my best to repeat the questions that
[58:16] you each say go
[58:23] ahead
[58:40] maybe on Greg do you want to speak to
[58:41] that the question was um what is the
[58:43] status of current maintenance at the
[58:46] park yes so the current maintenance is
[58:49] we're as a department parks department
[58:51] and with volunteer groups are removing
[58:55] invasives uh planting native trees and
[58:58] plants and shrubs and perennials working
[59:00] in the meadow so there is work being
[59:04] done but we're looking for this project
[59:07] and this master plan to cohes ofy all
[59:10] the work and and and set some priorities
[59:14] and sort of you know produce the road
[59:16] map to achieve all the goals we're doing
[59:19] now and other goals as well so there is
[59:21] maintenance and work happening in the
[59:22] park but we're looking for this to
[59:24] really
[59:25] highlight what it is we want to do and
[59:28] collectively and but also um you know
[59:32] maybe even help set some timelines and also you know request extra funding
[59:37] or capital projects or you know maybe go
[59:40] for Grants to help support some of these projects as we have them spelled
[59:43] out in the master
[59:46] plan go
[59:48] ahead my
[59:50] name
[59:51] and I want say that we up this
[59:58] place I mean minimum we want to see it
[1:00:02] maintained maintain really well this
[1:00:05] year I don't know what happened but all
[1:00:07] these trees are growing usually they
[1:00:10] andow the hill all these trees are
[1:00:13] growing all those um but my main concern
[1:00:17] was you know in your letter you said
[1:00:20] we're concerned about traffic and
[1:00:23] eological
[1:00:25] degradation and yet some of the ideas in
[1:00:28] the survey would only
[1:00:30] increase bike trails
[1:00:37] dog Recreation these are things that I
[1:00:40] totally against
[1:00:47] idea I know
[1:00:53] my thank
[1:00:59] you I'm going to assume that the
[1:01:01] Applause generally signifies
[1:01:04] agreement um just for the sake of those
[1:01:06] who couldn't hear um the the comment was
[1:01:08] we love the park the way it is it's
[1:01:10] valuable resource and some of the um
[1:01:13] options that were floated in the online
[1:01:16] survey including bike paths dog parks
[1:01:20] represent too high a level of active
[1:01:23] Recreation and we want to maintain that
[1:01:26] passive use that it currently has and
[1:01:27] the focus in that case would be keeping
[1:01:31] up with what we already love making sure
[1:01:33] it can continue to to offer essentially
[1:01:37] the same program it currently
[1:01:42] does note down the
[1:01:45] Applause
[1:01:48] yes hi my name is Art Shermer I'm living
[1:01:51] in the area
[1:01:53] for about 18 years I spent time there at
[1:01:58] least two three times a week I love this
[1:02:01] area it's a major reason I actually both
[1:02:04] brage I'm a very active person I do like
[1:02:08] bicycling and so on but I am in
[1:02:11] agreement this is an oasis the quiet
[1:02:13] areas of whatever bicycling or something
[1:02:16] like that is okay but it has to be a
[1:02:19] separated clear area because hiking dogs
[1:02:22] scrollers and bicycles
[1:02:24] you can have like disorder and so on so
[1:02:27] this is certainly something to wrestle
[1:02:30] with right um I would encourage you to
[1:02:33] think winter and summertime I don't
[1:02:36] quite understand why you cannot have a
[1:02:38] skating rink or something like that
[1:02:40] because we don't have enough skating in
[1:02:43] greenage snowshoeing is wonderful in
[1:02:45] Winter an observation I have is the
[1:02:49] trail sign isues are not very good
[1:02:51] there's no distances so somebody doesn't
[1:02:54] know
[1:02:54] one mile Gentle Family Walk Five Mile
[1:02:58] more sporty type of Trail it goes a bit
[1:03:01] to a bigger point the town of Greenwich
[1:03:03] somehow is not capable of doing a mobile
[1:03:06] app that would have a map because if we
[1:03:09] didn't it all together right we could
[1:03:12] get this on our devices then we don't
[1:03:15] need to do so much signage because we
[1:03:17] can bring it along I am for signage in
[1:03:20] the park particularly if you have out of
[1:03:22] town visitors that are not familiar the
[1:03:24] area and so on that could help I would
[1:03:28] ask you as our consultants and so on to
[1:03:31] consider a few
[1:03:32] things I'd like to really understand who
[1:03:35] uses that Park the most suspect it's
[1:03:38] very nearby I see a lot of FO traffic
[1:03:41] there's not really so so many cars most
[1:03:43] cars have Conneticut plates cob is a
[1:03:47] large part of brage unfortunately it
[1:03:49] does not have an active current
[1:03:51] neighborhood association which is a
[1:03:53] disadvantage
[1:03:54] I don't know whether there's the friends
[1:03:56] of pman and park but I would encourage
[1:04:00] you to seek a little bit like who is
[1:04:02] involved we have various Representatives
[1:04:04] here from tree conver Conservancy byro
[1:04:08] you represent sustainability committee
[1:04:11] and some others so there's a lot of
[1:04:13] expertise in in this room I do have a
[1:04:16] crazy Visionary type of idea we have a
[1:04:20] water water flow problem in
[1:04:23] Greenwich and I'd like to see something
[1:04:26] like small Lake whichever we're want to
[1:04:28] call it Omar because we need to redirect
[1:04:33] water we have water issues everywhere
[1:04:36] ppw has looked left and right Mr Kramer
[1:04:40] it's not easy we have huge challenges
[1:04:43] but we cannot defer into the
[1:04:45] future there is a possibility to have
[1:04:49] some sort of a drought Reserve to do
[1:04:51] this in an aesthetical way with nice
[1:04:54] daming or walking things and so on so
[1:04:56] that peacefulness can be preserved but
[1:04:59] we need to deal better with water too
[1:05:02] complicated to expensive is not an
[1:05:04] answer we need to make progress and
[1:05:07] think differently doesn't have to be
[1:05:09] pumps and pipes maybe it could be a
[1:05:12] beautiful Aqueduct or something so let's
[1:05:15] also think about the water issues around
[1:05:18] please and the other thing is I don't
[1:05:22] see too many people in here sorry I'm 63
[1:05:25] years old I'm an old fart okay but I
[1:05:29] don't see too many families with pits
[1:05:31] here people's in their 20 and 30 we have
[1:05:34] a lot of newcomers to town especially in
[1:05:36] cost please do a Saturday morning
[1:05:40] meeting at the costop library where the
[1:05:42] families with the strollers and the dogs
[1:05:45] can come by please spend the extra time
[1:05:48] to come and seek for feedback thank you
[1:05:50] so much for your work I really
[1:05:52] appreciate it thank you
[1:05:58] uh and once again I'll I'll respond to a
[1:06:00] few of those things um assuming not
[1:06:02] everyone who would listen in later hears
[1:06:04] uh the comments
[1:06:05] included um when multi-season
[1:06:09] opportunities uh should be looked at uh
[1:06:11] potentially skating um Trail signage
[1:06:14] There's an opportunity there a Mobile
[1:06:15] app could help greatly with that to
[1:06:17] further enhanced
[1:06:19] signage um more involvement in the
[1:06:22] neighborhood could help though there is
[1:06:24] the friends of uh the park organization
[1:06:26] already the water flow problem um there was a study done who was the
[1:06:30] consultant um there was a study done a
[1:06:32] few years ago that looked at possible
[1:06:34] sites in Greenwich for for flood
[1:06:36] mitigation and this they did a chapter
[1:06:38] on on this site looking into the
[1:06:39] feasibility of that no progress there's
[1:06:42] been no progress since it you say need
[1:06:44] to continue to work that their
[1:06:46] recommendations were very very general I
[1:06:48] looked through it and it didn't really
[1:06:49] say here's what you would engineer
[1:06:51] here's what you would do it was kind of
[1:06:53] okay for further study I don't want to
[1:06:55] speak too much but it all leads to no
[1:06:58] action which is not acceptable it's
[1:07:02] 2023 yeah so we'll we'll we'll note that
[1:07:05] down um and then yeah further public
[1:07:09] Outreach for this project I think that is a great suggestion any
[1:07:13] strategies to reach the broadest
[1:07:15] audience possible a Saturday morning
[1:07:17] meeting at the library could be a good
[1:07:18] idea for the next meeting so we still
[1:07:21] have to plan that one yes go ahead
[1:07:24] hi my name is Lindsay and I'm the
[1:07:27] director of the CER and very much wanted
[1:07:31] to thank you all this process and this
[1:07:34] meeting and
[1:07:37] having um obviously the pum and the
[1:07:41] comand properties are backyard the home
[1:07:45] for the grenwich Botanical center and
[1:07:49] point we also don't want to see much
[1:07:51] change and that is primarily because he it is a laboratory for we are
[1:07:57] able to reach many many children we have
[1:08:01] uh we're in sh experience for the all
[1:08:04] entire third grade BR Public Schools we
[1:08:07] also do many field for the first grade
[1:08:09] and we're reaching out to many other
[1:08:11] schools to offer our property and
[1:08:14] programs um to the school to learn
[1:08:16] abouty dant caty water Etc we also have
[1:08:22] onsite programming for uh for children
[1:08:24] and nature Emer program called Forest so
[1:08:29] the fact that this amazing Place offers
[1:08:31] an environment in which to do all of
[1:08:33] those things and reach the families and
[1:08:36] the children and our communi is hugely valuable so um I'm just going to
[1:08:42] put that plug in and we would also very
[1:08:45] much be happy to host a meeting atan
[1:08:48] Center and I would also be very happy to
[1:08:50] Rally all of our families in support of
[1:08:53] uh the vision for
[1:08:58] the thank
[1:09:00] [Applause]
[1:09:02] you yeah yep uh guys we do apologize we
[1:09:07] uh were supposed to have the mobile
[1:09:08] microphone for the podium we did not
[1:09:10] have that set up but um we do want to
[1:09:12] hear your comments we want to capture it
[1:09:14] accurately so one of our thoughts is we
[1:09:16] have that far right microphone next to
[1:09:18] uh Dr Kramer over there we could turn
[1:09:20] that microphone on if you guys feel
[1:09:22] comfortable speaking directly in there
[1:09:23] so we can have everybody on zoom and on
[1:09:26] the recording hear your comments because
[1:09:27] we just want to make sure that we
[1:09:29] accurately uh present that so if that's
[1:09:32] uh comfortable with you guys we can get
[1:09:33] that set up over on the far right uh
[1:09:35] side of the microphone right
[1:09:38] there all right thank you yeah don't be afraid to step up to the
[1:09:44] microphone go
[1:09:52] ahead
[1:09:58] yeah well I I can recap it too if you
[1:10:16] yeah yeah there there seems to be
[1:10:21] agreement I mean the comment was that
[1:10:24] uh dog walking is currently a highly
[1:10:27] valued use of the park and for any uh
[1:10:30] plan going forward to continue to
[1:10:32] include that and and not further limit
[1:10:35] um walking dogs on the
[1:10:39] Park
[1:10:40] goe stat from
[1:10:45] first says over years AG when
[1:10:52] I
[1:11:11] went thank you so that was that was a
[1:11:14] pilot program that allowed dogs where
[1:11:16] exactly I didn't I just didn't catch
[1:11:18] that part I didn't hear you sorry
[1:11:21] um just that there was a pilot plan when
[1:11:25] he was on years ago because there
[1:11:29] was in
[1:11:31] and program and never
[1:11:37] Chang oh I see I see so basically the
[1:11:40] use of the park today which does allow
[1:11:42] walking dogs on the park was piloted 20
[1:11:44] years ago that was considered successful
[1:11:46] and then it has never changed it was
[1:11:48] basically it was
[1:11:50] instituted
[1:11:52] okay
[1:11:54] it's
[1:11:56] thank yes
[1:11:59] thanks I saw this hand first I think my
[1:12:03] name is Tom kill I love thank you for
[1:12:06] what you've done so
[1:12:07] faral way it is CC I appreciated your
[1:12:11] history and I think that the one thing
[1:12:13] that I would love to see is that on the
[1:12:16] in the hill on the hill at the sou part
[1:12:19] of the park you can see the the house
[1:12:21] where bar talk yeah right there like a
[1:12:25] going up just barely see it I would love
[1:12:28] there to be some sort
[1:12:30] of really remarkable that this woman in
[1:12:34] the woods of kasav wrote books that
[1:12:36] arguably
[1:12:38] Sol is just amazing and I just feel like
[1:12:41] it's not recognized at all I always tell
[1:12:44] people when I'm there like that be black
[1:12:49] well it's not actually on the property
[1:12:51] you can just see it so you see it on the
[1:12:52] yeah it's on the
[1:12:56] that that's that's exactly it
[1:13:05] yeah yeah so the the the comment uh was
[1:13:08] the writer Cottage where Barbara tuckman
[1:13:11] wrote her famous books should be should attention be brought to it
[1:13:16] currently that structure is just off the
[1:13:19] town-owned property it's located on the
[1:13:22] privately owned parcel of one of Barbara
[1:13:24] tuckman's daughters who still lives on
[1:13:26] the property so um I guess all I can
[1:13:31] really say is just currently it's not
[1:13:33] owned or controlled by by the town and I suppose um any sort
[1:13:39] of point out it's up there you wouldn't
[1:13:42] even know
[1:13:44] that yeah you know and I agree it's a
[1:13:46] fascinating structure and I think that
[1:13:48] it would it would have to be done in
[1:13:49] coordination with the person who owns
[1:13:51] that land to make sure it was done
[1:13:53] appropriately if if so go
[1:14:16] ahead so the the the comment was that
[1:14:19] the the owner of that property has um
[1:14:21] had to struggle with vandalism an upkeep
[1:14:24] of that structure in the past and we
[1:14:25] want to make sure we're being the best
[1:14:26] neighbor
[1:14:27] possible you raised your hand a while
[1:14:29] ago I
[1:14:42] thinks
[1:14:44] another I've
[1:14:49] been there any fall off
[1:15:11] um thank you for that comment yeah the comment was um first additional
[1:15:16] support of walking dogs on the property
[1:15:18] and secondly attention to the raised
[1:15:20] Boardwalk that has gaps in between the
[1:15:24] rails that are probably out of
[1:15:25] Regulation and should be addressed as
[1:15:27] soon as possible to for
[1:15:32] safety go
[1:15:35] ahead yes please yeah that that'd be
[1:15:37] great yeah go to the far right one just
[1:15:40] because we have the zoom here I don't
[1:15:47] want so good evening folks uh my name is
[1:15:50] James hello oh okay good evening folks
[1:15:54] um just wanted to say as maybe one of
[1:15:56] the younger family oriented individuals
[1:15:59] in the room here uh so we have two young
[1:16:01] daughters um we're we're a dog loving
[1:16:03] family we use this park a lot and um the
[1:16:07] survey concerned me just uh you know
[1:16:10] kind of some of the questions and how
[1:16:12] they were asked so so a few things I
[1:16:14] want to get out there one I think really
[1:16:16] all the park needs is some TLC right you
[1:16:19] need better signage um you need uh you
[1:16:22] know directional signage Maps be it
[1:16:25] online or print um you know maybe a you
[1:16:28] know when you enter you also need I
[1:16:32] think one of the things that was a big
[1:16:34] worry was the whole parking um I think
[1:16:36] the parking is fine as it is uh you know
[1:16:39] maybe better advertising that you can
[1:16:41] park on Bible Street you know in the
[1:16:43] large parking lot there I feel like
[1:16:45] that's kind of a back entrance to the
[1:16:47] park that many don't know of as an
[1:16:49] option of parking um unless you're really uh you know in the weeds
[1:16:54] in the area to say but um you know
[1:16:56] besides Trail maintenance uh you know
[1:16:59] and and mowing the meadow now and again
[1:17:01] to kind of keep it and also preserving
[1:17:03] those historic structures you talked
[1:17:05] about right to to young kids that's it's
[1:17:08] a Whimsical area you know I think one of
[1:17:11] the questions talked about getting rid
[1:17:12] of the bridge right that bridge is kind
[1:17:14] of phenomenal when you're a young kid
[1:17:16] you can go over run around come down and
[1:17:18] underneath it right and uh the the
[1:17:20] little Stone House that you guys had up
[1:17:22] in your slid before I think these are
[1:17:24] all things that make this property
[1:17:27] unique um you know to families to
[1:17:29] Children um and it's also uh just great
[1:17:32] to get out there and walk with your dog
[1:17:34] right um and I see dogs using the park
[1:17:37] all the time uh you know winter spring
[1:17:39] summer and fall so I would ask please no
[1:17:42] additional pavement um in the park right
[1:17:45] no additional parking spaces um I I
[1:17:48] think we're we're kind of good good
[1:17:50] there um but you know just just maintain
[1:17:52] it right right give it that TLC it needs
[1:17:55] give it the better signage um uh so
[1:17:57] individuals can enjoy it more maybe a
[1:17:59] historic note or two about uh you know
[1:18:02] more about the park as a whole and the
[1:18:04] property as a whole but it's so well
[1:18:05] connected with ccob um and with the uh
[1:18:09] you know the school next door with the
[1:18:11] garden center um you know next door uh
[1:18:15] that it would be a shame to turn it into
[1:18:17] a more active use area or to pave it
[1:18:20] over uh with a larger uh parking lot I
[1:18:23] think you know keep it the way it is
[1:18:25] give it some TLC and that'll be it will
[1:18:28] be a great use you know for generations
[1:18:30] to come thank you thank
[1:18:40] you been walking this park since I was
[1:18:43] seven and over that time I absolutely
[1:18:46] love that at least one pavement became
[1:18:49] lawn again um so this is a space that
[1:18:53] has been fantastic at being the
[1:18:57] environment and for many of the school
[1:19:00] groups many of the people in this area
[1:19:02] this is the pressure valve forgetting to
[1:19:06] still be in this area uh paper trail
[1:19:10] maps I hike extensively these QR codes
[1:19:14] great there is not cellular reception
[1:19:17] for most of this park I am unofficial
[1:19:20] Lorax guide um you know Trail
[1:19:23] maintenance person I haul as big a thing
[1:19:26] as I can haul off these Trails uh but
[1:19:30] there are many people who do get turned
[1:19:32] around in the space but these little QR
[1:19:34] codes aren't going to help for this
[1:19:36] particular spot given the geology of
[1:19:39] this particular spot um unless you're
[1:19:41] way up on the Hills so post storm not
[1:19:47] just volunteer citizen but just the
[1:19:50] trails themselves the existing Trails
[1:19:54] getting the huge stuff off when the
[1:19:56] trees just fall lengthwise down the
[1:19:59] favorite Trail and it takes years for
[1:20:01] that tree to rot before it's cut up um
[1:20:05] so just the actual trails that people
[1:20:07] want to stay on uh and can't you know
[1:20:10] just collectively get everything off
[1:20:13] because sometimes you do need Machinery
[1:20:15] to get some of the bigger logs off but
[1:20:18] otherwise echoing what everyone else has
[1:20:21] said is that it is special because it is
[1:20:24] what it currently
[1:20:33] is yes go
[1:20:35] ahead that's okay I'll repeat
[1:20:49] it
[1:20:51] stairs
[1:21:21] then
[1:21:28] thank you the the comments were uh about
[1:21:32] after
[1:21:35] um it was you seeing after storms Fallen
[1:21:38] trees or is that the previous comment
[1:21:41] I'm looking at my notes I apologize the
[1:21:43] fish ladder was the first comment um
[1:21:45] could there be a way for you you know
[1:21:46] where there's a change in elevation in a
[1:21:48] Waterway to have a way for migrating
[1:21:50] fish to come up an elevation with a fish
[1:21:52] lad or eels and the stairs from the
[1:21:55] ruins to um clean those up and make them
[1:21:59] safe and usable and was the program was
[1:22:02] called Forest
[1:22:04] days okay yeah I don't I I haven't
[1:22:06] learned about that
[1:22:08] I they they used to have an awesome um
[1:22:10] teaching area that um the the commenter
[1:22:13] wishes could remain in
[1:22:18] place go ahead hi um I'm s i right on
[1:22:23] the edge so I
[1:22:28] my so but my question is really about me
[1:22:32] because it is a little scary I've been
[1:22:34] um in town for 30 years on the pum and
[1:22:38] every time after the storm it really
[1:22:40] looks different and I do get concerned
[1:22:42] that there are trees that are about to
[1:22:44] fall the trail and you guys have been
[1:22:46] very responsive by email the town and
[1:22:48] people called me where is that spot and
[1:22:52] you found
[1:22:53] but what is the current maintenance
[1:22:57] programs so the question was what is the
[1:23:00] maintenance program in place currently
[1:23:02] with regard to dangerous and Fallen
[1:23:05] trees um in the pum but I assume in the
[1:23:08] pommer and tuckman site as well um maybe
[1:23:10] Greg do you want to answer that sure I can answer that yeah if there's
[1:23:15] something that's precarious or dangerous
[1:23:17] certainly you know send me an email um
[1:23:19] or let staff know and we'll take a look
[1:23:21] at it we don't
[1:23:23] as as a ecological reason go around and
[1:23:26] remove dead trees or snags unless
[1:23:29] they're really close to a trail or or
[1:23:31] seem to be dangerous only because dead
[1:23:34] Deadwood is int it's it's so intricate
[1:23:37] to their survival in the Ecology of the
[1:23:40] woodlands you have various species that
[1:23:42] only live in Deadwood so to remove dead
[1:23:44] trees excuse me if they're not a hazard
[1:23:47] is really um eliminating a very
[1:23:49] important part of the ecological uh
[1:23:51] component of the woods so so again it's
[1:23:54] really on a case-by Case basis um if you
[1:23:56] see something that you know just kind of
[1:23:58] stands out to you certainly let us know
[1:24:00] well we'll take a look at it and make
[1:24:01] that that determination
[1:24:05] absolutely uh yes the microphone
[1:24:09] now my oh you may have to turn your
[1:24:13] little red button on got my red button
[1:24:15] on um I'm a neighbor to the pomarance uh
[1:24:20] property we live right along brother
[1:24:22] Brook and I think it it needs to be uh
[1:24:26] mentioned that part of the experience of
[1:24:29] the park is destroyed uh on the weekends
[1:24:35] in Winter uh beginning this next weekend
[1:24:38] the ski shooting from the um Country
[1:24:42] Club the Greenwich Country Club will
[1:24:44] commence uh at 10: in the morning and
[1:24:47] persist through 400 p.m. uh Saturday and
[1:24:52] Sunday
[1:24:53] and it's heard throughout the park and
[1:24:55] throughout the neighborhood and I I I
[1:24:59] don't know what we can do about it uh
[1:25:02] within this master plan but it is part
[1:25:04] of the experience of that Park and it
[1:25:08] needs to be
[1:25:11] noted thank
[1:25:16] you
[1:25:21] yes
[1:25:33] I'm Pete Yuri and I've lived in town
[1:25:36] about 50
[1:25:38] years and my wife and I use the pomin
[1:25:42] tuckman and pine edum property at least
[1:25:46] once a week probably twice a week and
[1:25:48] it's
[1:25:50] marvelous it's marvelous
[1:25:53] because it is still virtually untouched
[1:25:59] Woodlands that's not to say that in the
[1:26:04] presentation we heard this evening that
[1:26:06] there
[1:26:07] are I don't want hotpots let's call them
[1:26:10] that which can be
[1:26:13] very
[1:26:15] entertaining or fun or
[1:26:18] educational for someone visiting the
[1:26:20] park I I think the sunken garden is a
[1:26:23] good example of
[1:26:25] that I think the ruin is an example of
[1:26:28] that I think the history of Mr seatan is
[1:26:32] interesting to highlight and have some
[1:26:35] information
[1:26:37] about on the other
[1:26:40] hand I think there's a real danger if
[1:26:43] you do too
[1:26:44] much
[1:26:46] now but I learned because I was involved
[1:26:49] with the master planning for Benny Park
[1:26:52] that you can make a plan not only for
[1:26:55] what to do
[1:26:58] currently but also for the
[1:27:01] future and you can not necessarily have
[1:27:05] to
[1:27:06] execute and I'm sure if Mr ceciliano is
[1:27:09] in the room there's probably a budget
[1:27:11] issue that will go along with that too
[1:27:14] that may actually prompt something not
[1:27:16] to happen in in the immediate
[1:27:19] future but the message there is allow
[1:27:25] the ideas that go into the master plan
[1:27:29] to reflect not only what all of us you
[1:27:34] be everyone else wants to have happen in
[1:27:37] the short range and I share that feeling
[1:27:41] let's get it looking a little better
[1:27:43] let's improve the sunen
[1:27:47] garden but then set some priorities for
[1:27:50] what this open space
[1:27:53] will do to serve our community 10 15 20
[1:27:58] years from now the beauty of Benny Park
[1:28:02] 90 years old is that it still has as
[1:28:07] part of its five
[1:28:10] sections about a 10 acre untouched
[1:28:15] Woodland from say
[1:28:19] 1930 and if I ask how many people knew
[1:28:23] this to raise their
[1:28:26] hand how many hands would go up any
[1:28:30] kitchel well maybe 15% of
[1:28:35] you and it's right there in the middle
[1:28:37] of old grenage it's a wonderful resource
[1:28:40] untouched open
[1:28:44] space thank you for the comment it it
[1:28:46] reminds me of a question that I think
[1:28:49] we're going to be looking at as we get
[1:28:50] into um
[1:28:52] the the master plan recommendations I
[1:28:54] think we're hearing a lot of over and
[1:28:56] over we we love the park the way it is
[1:28:58] we don't want it to we don't want to
[1:29:00] lose this resource we don't want to
[1:29:01] change it and we're going to probably
[1:29:03] start zeroing in on okay how do we best
[1:29:06] Steward what's there today and one of
[1:29:08] those questions that maybe is a little
[1:29:11] more nuanced is how best to showcase the
[1:29:15] site's history specifically like there's
[1:29:18] ruins where there's weeds growing over
[1:29:20] them do we clear those weeds away do we bring a formalized path to more of
[1:29:23] those ruins do we put educational
[1:29:25] signage on more of those do we put uh
[1:29:28] more of like commemorative plaqu on them
[1:29:30] do we leave them completely alone and
[1:29:32] have them as sort of features you
[1:29:34] discover that are overgrown that whether
[1:29:37] to clear weeds away gets into the
[1:29:39] invasive species management question too
[1:29:41] if there's a plant that ought not be in
[1:29:43] the park for the sake of the native
[1:29:46] ecosystem you're kind of clearing out
[1:29:48] the historic ruin while you're at it so
[1:29:50] they can be a little bit interrelated
[1:29:51] but
[1:29:52] finding an appropriate strategy for
[1:29:55] celebrating the fact that this site has
[1:29:57] such unique history and it has these
[1:29:59] physical ruins that can deteriorate they
[1:30:02] can become overgrown do we want to bring
[1:30:04] more attention to those and if so how
[1:30:07] that that's that's kind of the the level
[1:30:09] of detail we may find ourselves zeroing
[1:30:11] in on with that particular
[1:30:14] topic so this hand first
[1:30:20] yeah I mainly came here because of
[1:30:23] dogging I think see that
[1:30:26] CH dogs over there
[1:30:29] years um and it sounds like I'm in
[1:30:32] agreement with most here if you came
[1:30:35] there in the
[1:30:37] morning 75% of the cars
[1:30:40] par I mean yeah 7% they would have dogs
[1:30:45] only
[1:30:47] 25% but way it is used
[1:30:50] now somebody else just mentioned another
[1:30:53] thing that's what the or what not but
[1:30:57] when you come out of that
[1:31:00] car go left you can
[1:31:04] hard there's one big tree in the that
[1:31:07] there's an awful lot of bushes
[1:31:10] to I got to admit I went home one day
[1:31:14] and I almost felt whack I got
[1:31:20] Myers out
[1:31:24] there problems
[1:31:27] with I work in La was in this 31 years
[1:31:31] and I
[1:31:32] never
[1:31:35] there never there once
[1:31:42] remember they pick up after themselves
[1:31:44] 90%
[1:31:47] I my fo on the grass but that's rare
[1:31:51] really
[1:31:53] take I'm glad to see that most
[1:31:59] people thank
[1:32:01] [Applause]
[1:32:03] you the the the comment was further
[1:32:06] agreement that uh dog walking needs to
[1:32:10] remain uh un unsed with as is on the
[1:32:14] site it's an extremely valuable use and
[1:32:16] that there could be improvements made
[1:32:19] for the visibility of cars turning out
[1:32:21] of the or street parking lot because of
[1:32:23] vegetation blocking the view of oncoming
[1:32:26] cars and that uh in the uh gentleman's
[1:32:29] experience there has not been um issues
[1:32:31] of um kind of negative encounters
[1:32:33] between dogs and users of the
[1:32:36] park was there yeah go ahead yep it's
[1:32:40] you
[1:32:42] yep see a couple of walking friends that
[1:32:45] I don't know who they are but I've seen
[1:32:49] them I live on Montgomery Lane
[1:32:58] says you know it's completely different
[1:33:01] Five Point with apologies
[1:33:08] Gass and the well
[1:33:10] AC Wellness woodiness it is is what feel
[1:33:15] like breathing you know real
[1:33:20] air
[1:33:22] I've been working through through there
[1:33:24] about six days a week for 20 years I
[1:33:26] will say the uh the signage is issue I I
[1:33:29] had person rescued one little girl
[1:33:32] mother was did a run away i' I've
[1:33:35] periodically steered people back to
[1:33:38] where they think the might
[1:33:40] possibly so I agree with the point
[1:33:44] about this doesn't work on your
[1:33:47] phone so I would be in favor
[1:33:50] for
[1:33:52] with
[1:33:53] Arona I I do think um you know there so
[1:33:57] many pass like primary second some of
[1:34:00] them get kind of
[1:34:02] swamp and and I would have objection to
[1:34:06] making them pass withs like that I know
[1:34:11] this also the with this small area next
[1:34:14] to is also Cal s right which is owned by
[1:34:19] the aut but basically connected through
[1:34:23] the PO sanct all way through through
[1:34:26] everything else and what they done the
[1:34:28] PO they put you know kind of little
[1:34:31] bridges over the areas and that's very
[1:34:36] intermittent right I think one yeah
[1:34:50] the my final point
[1:34:53] is it's a shame that the the overlooks
[1:34:56] don't really allow you to see the lake
[1:34:59] most of the time there a lot of
[1:35:02] overgrowth Tre or whatever I don't
[1:35:04] whether it's native or not but it seems
[1:35:06] to me when you're in elev position you
[1:35:08] got the the ruins and everything the
[1:35:10] park nice to be able to look down and
[1:35:13] see the and my experience you really
[1:35:16] can't see it very well obsc most the
[1:35:19] time the elevation
[1:35:22] El I don't see why you would open that
[1:35:25] up final point you said something about
[1:35:29] we put in more
[1:35:31] access to notable sites I I personally
[1:35:35] would like to see that i'
[1:35:41] like thank
[1:35:43] [Applause]
[1:35:45] you um the the comments included uh
[1:35:49] reinforcement of that agreements that
[1:35:51] more physical way finding signage could
[1:35:53] be useful QR codes won't be practical
[1:35:56] due to reception here paths that get
[1:35:58] swampy could benefit from boardwalks and
[1:36:01] there's uh nearby examples where that's
[1:36:03] done well and that the overlooks are
[1:36:05] quite often overgrown with with the
[1:36:07] views blocked and um the uh gentleman
[1:36:11] feels uh formalized Pathways to the
[1:36:13] ruins might not be um the the most
[1:36:16] appropriate
[1:36:19] treatment go ahead
[1:36:22] my name's Bob Angelo born and raised
[1:36:24] here in GRE right across from p park
[1:36:27] spent a lot of time in there as a kid I
[1:36:31] didn't shoot any animals in
[1:36:33] there
[1:36:35] every a warm day your high skip school
[1:36:39] jump in the
[1:36:40] lake a lot of fun in there um I'm on the
[1:36:45] selectman's transportation task force
[1:36:48] and my primary focus is SA riding for
[1:36:52] young kids to try to get to school
[1:36:54] safely so um you I know I'm I'm
[1:36:58] certainly not advocating opening up the
[1:37:01] park for bike riding but there's a main
[1:37:04] uh main artery Trail there basically
[1:37:06] from the lake that goes up to the mam
[1:37:10] Road you know Montgomery Lane
[1:37:13] back and multipurpose Trail normally
[1:37:16] about 8 ft wide um there's uh different
[1:37:21] substrates not not advocating mam not
[1:37:24] baving not cutting down trees not moving
[1:37:26] anything um we we would love the task
[1:37:30] force would love to see some
[1:37:31] consideration to feasibility of if that
[1:37:35] one uh trail that links the lake to um
[1:37:40] the road there near the Botanical center
[1:37:42] could become a multi-purpose pass that
[1:37:45] shared uh so that kids could basically
[1:37:47] ride their bike to school to the new
[1:37:49] Central Middle School and credit b b
[1:37:52] kids are looking s in F Track is really
[1:37:54] bad think people would use the park if
[1:37:57] they could have family ride in there
[1:38:00] basically
[1:38:01] um yeah that's it there's there's
[1:38:04] different substrates that you know that
[1:38:06] drain that withstand weather um seen
[1:38:10] them around basically and uh we'
[1:38:13] appreciate just some consideration
[1:38:15] to make
[1:38:17] that
[1:38:19] schoolf in that area
[1:38:21] thank you thank
[1:38:23] [Applause]
[1:38:25] you okay then I'll summarize both
[1:38:28] comments in winter
[1:38:30] time oh that that route would be perfect
[1:38:33] for losing in wintertime so the the the
[1:38:36] comment was um could a uh suitable route
[1:38:41] be found on one of the main artery
[1:38:44] Trails through the park that would
[1:38:46] connect uh with a more of a paved
[1:38:49] multi-use trail treatment uh for
[1:38:51] children biking to school uh I I as I
[1:38:53] understood it kind of on a
[1:38:55] North sorry sorry sorry as a landscape
[1:38:58] architect when I think of compacted
[1:39:00] stone dust I think of that as a a type
[1:39:02] of pavement but not
[1:39:05] [Laughter]
[1:39:07] asphalt but more solid than Earth more
[1:39:10] solid than just the packed Earth trails
[1:39:13] that we have something kind of in
[1:39:14] between is what you may be envisioning I
[1:39:16] mean a multi-use trail can be paved with
[1:39:18] asphalt and it becomes more durable and
[1:39:20] I I want to add to that um is there a
[1:39:24] need for a handicap accessible Trail
[1:39:26] through here and would that double is
[1:39:28] that say that basically I mean I think
[1:39:30] the part of active transportation is
[1:39:34] access for all users and you know
[1:39:36] adaptive users uh with a safer you know
[1:39:40] with a safer raid basically or just
[1:39:42] safer substrate uh enjoy the part yeah
[1:39:47] well when we um maybe after we're
[1:39:50] finished together you could point out
[1:39:51] the route you had in mind that sounded
[1:39:53] fairly specific and we could talk about
[1:39:55] that a little
[1:39:58] further go ahead hi my name
[1:40:05] ISO and I use
[1:40:09] the I've also done a lot of
[1:40:12] Hing with and without
[1:40:17] dogs I would like
[1:40:19] to pose for
[1:40:22] consideration once
[1:40:24] you um introduce bikes trail
[1:40:27] system it can be difficult to
[1:40:30] control to
[1:40:32] use I have geered away from pking in my
[1:40:37] because tax of mountain bikers not just
[1:40:40] one or two and I'm a previous mountain
[1:40:43] biker I love it but tax event bikers
[1:40:46] come in from westest County because they
[1:40:49] found the park online
[1:40:52] and I'm there with a dog trying to
[1:40:54] prevent the dog from being run over by
[1:40:56] the bike and they don't you know go
[1:40:58] along and FL they go along and very
[1:41:01] fast um I would hate to see anything
[1:41:04] like that happen to this gorgeous you
[1:41:08] know Reserve
[1:41:11] that thank you
[1:41:13] [Applause]
[1:41:15] so the comment was a concern that once
[1:41:17] biking is introduced as a uh activity at
[1:41:21] a park and the park starts to
[1:41:23] accommodate that it can be discovered by
[1:41:25] mountain bikers who can overuse the park
[1:41:29] and make it less um usable for uh hikers
[1:41:34] and and other other uses and so to be
[1:41:36] cautious of
[1:41:41] that
[1:41:49] yes about five years
[1:41:53] ago
[1:41:55] off there several times and when I first
[1:42:00] back I live for a while in California
[1:42:04] which when I first back to it was many
[1:42:07] times in the park I was really kind of
[1:42:09] shocked that this particular town with
[1:42:11] the resources and the wealth and the
[1:42:14] intelligence that it has wasn't doing
[1:42:17] take care of the car from the
[1:42:19] perspective of the invasives
[1:42:23] that just
[1:42:26] like
[1:42:30] not I think
[1:42:32] this
[1:42:43] toon allocate more resources to it and a
[1:42:47] couple of people tonight people on the
[1:42:49] Chanel haveed the word
[1:42:51] terms of us taking care of the park I
[1:42:53] would like there to be ace to the par as
[1:42:56] there someone who really their
[1:42:59] responsibility to take care of the park
[1:43:02] Institute and implement the plan that we
[1:43:04] all come up with and make sure that some
[1:43:08] of the degradation that we're seeings
[1:43:11] and the habitat and all that isn't taken
[1:43:14] away and as much as possible I really
[1:43:16] love it something that we don't have a
[1:43:18] lot which is this
[1:43:21] State um so from that point well I
[1:43:25] definitely love that so many job owners
[1:43:28] use the it's so great to walk there and
[1:43:30] see everyone lots of people let their
[1:43:32] dogs off Le and perspective of a
[1:43:36] natural to maintain this as a natural
[1:43:40] that's it also turns away some people
[1:43:43] who don't like having for
[1:43:45] them and I agree that
[1:43:49] most every time I walk in there I see
[1:43:53] not I see the little B ofg left on the
[1:43:58] [Music]
[1:44:02] trail so um yeah that's kind of the main
[1:44:06] I really
[1:44:11] we
[1:44:13] and
[1:44:14] this so much more than other places to
[1:44:18] really take care of them and preserve
[1:44:19] them for
[1:44:23] children thank thank
[1:44:26] you the comment was um to uh
[1:44:30] continue aggressively tackling invasive
[1:44:35] vegetation um could there be a steward
[1:44:38] specifically for this park a a person
[1:44:40] designated who ensures invasive species
[1:44:43] are managed trails are maintained and
[1:44:45] then the perspective that um while
[1:44:48] walking dogs is a valuable use of the
[1:44:50] par Park letting dogs off leash can turn
[1:44:53] off people who aren't comfortable around
[1:44:55] dogs can um stress the environment and
[1:44:57] that dog waste uh being picked up needs
[1:45:00] to be um done more diligently so it may
[1:45:04] lead to um further infrastructure or or
[1:45:09] attention emphasis being brought to
[1:45:11] bring your dog here but do it properly
[1:45:19] yeah
[1:45:45] [Music]
[1:45:49] r
[1:45:51] know
[1:45:53] there um that I
[1:45:57] haveen are
[1:46:19] not um the other thing is I think bags
[1:46:27] that are around the
[1:46:37] par I don't see a lot
[1:46:48] of that was
[1:47:00] thank you uh the the comments were um in
[1:47:03] support of it was the perspective that
[1:47:06] offleash um time for dogs is is valuable
[1:47:09] and a space like this can provide that
[1:47:11] opportunity for for dogs who who who
[1:47:13] need that and um that it hasn't been an
[1:47:16] issue in in this person's experience and
[1:47:19] should be considered and that um dog
[1:47:22] waste the dog waste issue can be
[1:47:23] addressed by making cleanup easy for
[1:47:26] people by providing more more
[1:47:29] bins is this one
[1:47:49] first
[1:48:12] thats
[1:48:19] are
[1:48:34] and there are
[1:48:47] many are not near
[1:48:54] thank you U the comment was um the the
[1:48:56] other perspective that this person has
[1:49:00] had um bad encounters with dogs
[1:49:03] including being bitten here has been
[1:49:05] knocked over and that elderly people
[1:49:07] they know have been afraid to to come
[1:49:10] here because of the prospect of of dogs
[1:49:12] being off leash and and jumping on them
[1:49:14] and things like that
[1:49:17] and
[1:49:18] Y who I see next I think I think it was
[1:49:23] you yeah go ahead
[1:49:27] I lot of people love do but I think
[1:49:32] this understanding BR that maybe you can
[1:49:37] let your dog off I see it all the time
[1:49:41] some not only not a problem but
[1:49:45] occasionally dogs
[1:49:47] aggressive used to have this huge
[1:49:53] MGS around but not everybody is
[1:49:57] responsible seems I see dogs up the
[1:50:00] leash this part more of than any other
[1:50:02] part and I think maybe not close
[1:50:06] supervis understanding that probably
[1:50:10] inform trouble personally I have time
[1:50:14] but
[1:50:19] Pati I right
[1:50:32] there yeah thank you and and by the way
[1:50:36] I'm
[1:50:38] going um just to uh pause for a moment I
[1:50:41] think we've kind of formally scheduled
[1:50:43] ourselves between 6: to 8:00 P.M so
[1:50:45] we're getting close to the end of our
[1:50:46] time so the conversation can obviously
[1:50:50] to go on and on and on and I want I just
[1:50:51] want to make it known we're going to
[1:50:52] hang out longer and be available to
[1:50:56] speak kind of more on an informal basis
[1:50:58] because I'm sure there's still going to
[1:51:00] be additional questions and comments to
[1:51:01] discuss um so you can speak to any any
[1:51:04] of us on the project team at the end of
[1:51:07] this and we'll hang out over there near
[1:51:08] the maps U we we brought sticky notes
[1:51:11] you can write comments down and stick
[1:51:12] them right to the maps and there is the
[1:51:14] online survey which is on the town's
[1:51:16] website under the parks department page
[1:51:19] and we've gotten a lot of survey
[1:51:21] responses already and if you haven't
[1:51:23] taken it please tell your friends and
[1:51:25] family members and anyone who uses this
[1:51:27] park to to take it and that has the
[1:51:31] opportunity for open-ended responses as
[1:51:33] well if you have additional comments
[1:51:35] that don't fit the form of all of the
[1:51:37] questions on there so I just wanted to
[1:51:38] make sure that that was clear as since
[1:51:40] we'll take a couple more questions here
[1:51:41] but we're we're going to begin to wrap
[1:51:42] up after maybe two or three more
[1:51:46] questions I think I think I saw your
[1:51:49] hand longer
[1:51:51] ago I'm
[1:51:57] justce and I just want appreciative
[1:52:03] this coms
[1:52:07] but take
[1:52:10] questions love your
[1:52:12] name far as ma um I just wanted to
[1:52:16] celebrate the work of Darren and have
[1:52:20] created a
[1:52:22] map um it is posted on our website so
[1:52:27] download
[1:52:29] it
[1:52:33] [Music]
[1:52:38] fish it was they walked it all the way
[1:52:41] up from um with the library
[1:52:47] went and um
[1:52:50] conion May more
[1:52:54] than um
[1:53:02] [Music]
[1:53:06] I there he may get a tough winter this
[1:53:09] season so um yeah I am a
[1:53:18] lifelong um
[1:53:20] and please come up me with any other
[1:53:24] ideas
[1:53:32] down thank
[1:53:35] you and I think the dog issue is
[1:53:46] complicated round
[1:53:48] Applause
[1:53:49] [Applause]
[1:53:55] who was pregnant no idea at the time and
[1:53:57] during the very rainy couple of days
[1:54:00] like every single gear
[1:54:02] pth the
[1:54:04] G um but one thing I did want to mention
[1:54:07] about the dogs it is actually law to
[1:54:11] have your dog so that's why those are
[1:54:15] very concerned about the um survey
[1:54:18] question we spent a lot time talking
[1:54:20] about how to phrase that question and I
[1:54:23] think this team did a really good job of
[1:54:25] handling
[1:54:28] it so I think be a group that together
[1:54:33] and talk about it to invol
[1:54:37] he larger gr so I think it is
[1:54:40] complicated and I know you're raising
[1:54:42] your hand I know I just want to know how
[1:54:45] do you get hold of board
[1:54:47] of I'm not on the board of
[1:55:18] I we
[1:55:21] take
[1:55:25] here yeah yeah yeah probably start
[1:55:27] wrapping it up
[1:55:44] iail we can send it I know we have Sur
[1:55:47] but I
[1:55:47] want part of we can kind of separate
[1:55:51] that out and kind of have that as a
[1:55:52] comment in the meeting speak for that
[1:55:57] receive yeah yeah you're gonna respond
[1:55:59] to those people who typed additional
[1:56:00] comments with the email address I'll
[1:56:03] just ask them to
[1:56:08] email
[1:56:11] conly com the meeting itself
[1:56:15] okay all
[1:56:16] right okay um I'll take I'm going to
[1:56:20] sorry I'm
[1:56:22] gonna there's two people that we have
[1:56:24] not heard from at all yet that's a good
[1:56:25] point we have not heard from the two of
[1:56:26] you your two comments or questions will
[1:56:29] be the final group wide ones and then we
[1:56:33] are going to disperse and talk more
[1:56:34] organically no pressure
[1:56:37] yeah oh yeah yeah sorry Dan other Dan
[1:56:40] has one comment first yes I I do want to
[1:56:43] mention that I do know that we have a
[1:56:44] couple of people that have raised their
[1:56:46] hands um on the online Zoom option like
[1:56:49] I said we are running out of time here
[1:56:51] we do have other stuff on the agenda and
[1:56:53] we want to take in time to consideration
[1:56:55] with our um Consultants here so if you
[1:56:57] guys do have any additional comments
[1:57:00] that are related to this meeting please
[1:57:02] send them to parks and trees at
[1:57:04] Greenwich
[1:57:05] c.gov with the pomerance tuckman public
[1:57:08] meeting as the um as the headline for
[1:57:11] that and we will forward those on to the
[1:57:14] consultant GZA to get those recorded
[1:57:16] within the meeting um I do know we have
[1:57:19] as Dan reiterate we do have the survey
[1:57:21] online TI for additional feedback but we
[1:57:23] do want to make sure that I mean you
[1:57:24] took the time out here to uh listen to
[1:57:26] this so we want to have your comments on
[1:57:28] record for this particular meeting so I
[1:57:30] apologize for not getting to your
[1:57:32] comments to those of you on Zoom or for
[1:57:34] those in the audience but feel free to
[1:57:36] um email us at that address and we will
[1:57:38] get that incorporated into the comments
[1:57:40] of this meeting all right thank
[1:57:42] you okay yes go ahead people have
[1:57:45] mentioned
[1:57:46] stewardship and who would be stewards of
[1:57:49] this and might even take a case from The
[1:57:52] Playbook of the land trust who has
[1:57:54] multiple lands all over place and has a
[1:57:57] steward in a steward group for each
[1:57:59] location so it's like a friends group
[1:58:01] and so we could have the friends under
[1:58:04] the direction of N St being the steward
[1:58:08] it would work perfectly we've got it at
[1:58:11] gr point point it's everything from
[1:58:14] pulling down the invasive V to worrying
[1:58:17] about making being on making the
[1:58:20] observations and getting things
[1:58:22] corrected and keeping the
[1:58:24] place thank you uh yeah the comment was
[1:58:27] uh in response to who would be the
[1:58:29] steward of a property like this you have
[1:58:31] examples such as the Greenwich Land
[1:58:33] Trust which has a steward for each of
[1:58:35] its locations and that could be where uh
[1:58:38] the role of the the friends of pomerance
[1:58:40] and tuckman could step in and do
[1:58:43] something similar to Steward this
[1:58:45] park and and the final the final comment
[1:58:49] first of all I want to thank you for
[1:58:51] having this public for educational
[1:58:54] valuable
[1:58:56] lot
[1:58:58] um I and my dog are in that Park every
[1:59:02] day my dog is there at least
[1:59:05] twice and constantly amazed that 10et
[1:59:09] after I walk into the park I he cars
[1:59:13] barely here ples it's the G so I
[1:59:16] encourage you to try keep it as much
[1:59:19] like it is today in 15
[1:59:24] years someone mentioned bags in the park
[1:59:28] um and dogs that are disbehaving in the
[1:59:31] park um I see a lot of other dog owners
[1:59:34] here the dogs that are the problems the
[1:59:37] people that don't pick up bags think are
[1:59:39] the outliers I urge you not to make
[1:59:42] decisions based on the vast minority of
[1:59:46] people bags by the side of Trail I can
[1:59:49] tell you Le once every week and a half I
[1:59:52] walk out of the park five bed I away it
[1:59:57] my mind that people will pick up Poe the
[2:00:00] bag and leave it next to the trail for
[2:00:04] someone your question I'm one of those
[2:00:09] elves just to show that it's not unique
[2:00:12] to the park when I walk to the park from
[2:00:14] my house of
[2:00:16] Valleywood once a month I see a PO bag
[2:00:18] on some lawn on the street so it's not
[2:00:21] unique to the par people do this is what
[2:00:24] people do and they must have people pick
[2:00:26] up for them at home that let them feel
[2:00:29] this is way the world supposed to work
[2:00:31] um I urge you also to keep B off trails
[2:00:36] I don't I don't want to talk about kids
[2:00:39] going to school on bikes I went to
[2:00:41] school on
[2:00:42] bike of high school and it's but I don't
[2:00:48] go to Miami part because I've been
[2:00:51] scared by bikes sing around the turn um
[2:00:55] f than I do I just don't go there
[2:01:00] besides not wondering my dog's going to
[2:01:02] be bik I don't want to be so if you
[2:01:06] could limit if you have bike access
[2:01:09] these are limited to a
[2:01:18] very
[2:01:19] that's I thank you so that that that'll
[2:01:22] be our final official comment which I'll
[2:01:24] recap which is reiterated that dog
[2:01:27] walking is a very valuable use of the
[2:01:29] park it's a quiet Gem and should be kept
[2:01:31] that way um to not make decisions based
[2:01:34] on uh the the sort of problem dogs or
[2:01:38] dog owners who are likely the outliers
[2:01:40] and decisions not to be made solely on
[2:01:43] that um and that spikes should be kept
[2:01:46] off the trails uh other nearby parks
[2:01:48] like the mananas Greenway mananas Park
[2:01:51] are too unsafe due to mountain biking
[2:01:54] and to take that into consideration so
[2:01:57] thank you and um so thank you all for your comments for for listening to
[2:02:02] all of the information we had to share
[2:02:04] and then for engaging in this discussion
[2:02:06] I I think everyone's in agreement that
[2:02:08] it's it's a really valuable well-loved
[2:02:10] space you're really lucky to have it in
[2:02:13] town and I think we can all agree we
[2:02:16] want to find the way to uh move forward
[2:02:19] with uh keeping it the way it is uh and
[2:02:23] since change is inevitable in in the
[2:02:25] world just find ways to Steward this
[2:02:27] site appropriately so it can continue to offer what what people love about it
[2:02:32] with just the improvements that are
[2:02:34] necessary to to continue to enable those
[2:02:37] things um so like I said our our next
[2:02:40] steps are we're going to start uh
[2:02:42] working internally drafting
[2:02:44] recommendations based on all of our
[2:02:46] analysis we've been doing and the
[2:02:47] feedback we're hearing the the public survey that's online which once
[2:02:50] again is on the parks department website
[2:02:53] on on the town of greenwich's website um
[2:02:56] is going to be open until November 17th
[2:02:58] so so please participate in that if you
[2:03:00] have not already and spread the word
[2:03:01] about it and uh we're going to be uh
[2:03:06] capturing the results of those uh of the
[2:03:09] survey responses and and formulating
[2:03:12] recommendations for the master plan um
[2:03:15] based on on what we Insight we glean
[2:03:17] from that survey as well
[2:03:19] um and the the next meeting which hasn't
[2:03:23] been planned yet will be for us to share
[2:03:26] preliminary initial thinking about
[2:03:28] master plan recommendations to hear some
[2:03:30] further feedback and discussion on those
[2:03:32] things I I don't think that we'll be at
[2:03:34] the stage where we share a draft master
[2:03:36] plan publicly or anything like that I
[2:03:38] think it's going to be kind of in the
[2:03:39] midst of that process we'll share kind
[2:03:40] of our initial thoughts publicly at a
[2:03:43] forum um and then from there we'll wrap
[2:03:45] up the master plan so that that that'll
[2:03:48] be in the the coming months and and
[2:03:50] you'll hear about that when that meeting
[2:03:51] is planned so we'll stick around for for
[2:03:54] a while longer and please uh stay if you
[2:03:56] want and um you can come talk to any of
[2:03:58] us and we'll be here for a little while
[2:04:01] thank
[2:04:01] you thank you everybody yeah we'll be
[2:04:05] around so if you wanna if you want to
[2:04:07] wait and have conversations I'll I'll be
[2:04:08] here for a little bit myself and thank
[2:04:10] you GZA team and and park
[2:04:14] sta it's all
[2:04:17] right
[2:04:24] so
[2:04:33] I