Well, good afternoon everyone and
welcome to our special uh council
meeting of Thursday, August 20, 2026.
Uh welcome council. Uh councelor, you're
on Zoom, so good morning or good
afternoon. Happy birthday. uh welcome
the uh gallery that's here today, our
staff and those that are viewing from outside of this council chamber. So
there was a published agenda uh that was
on our website which I'm reading off
today and uh it was a special council
meeting that I called for you can see on
the there's three items to uh to be
dealt with today and
it's a little abnormal to have a special
council meeting but sometimes you have
to call those within the proper notice
but because of the election this year
and uh they call lame duck uh certain
financial decisions over 50,000 and
cannot be made after tomorrow at 2,
which I'm hearing a lot on the radio.
So, yes, and it's a certain provision
that uh lame duck councils and there's a
certain provision that sort of spells
out what lame duck councils are and
that's where there could be a
possibility of the same council not
coming back. So part of that uh
legislation that's through the province
then uh there are three items on today's
agenda that are dealing with uh a
financial um decision. So that's why a
special council meeting is called I just attended a special council
meeting at the county the gray to deal
with something similar a financial
decision that had to be done. Council
can still make decisions but not things
that are going to affect it over
$50,000. Somebody was asking are they
made increments? Could you do I don't
know. So anyway, that's why we're here
today. And again, welcome everybody for
attending. So on that agenda that uh is
here, do we have any additions or
deletions for today's agenda from
council or staff? Got to ask. No, it
says approval of the agenda. So if not,
can I have a mover and a seconder for
that? Councelor Owick, councelor Dubick.
Any discussion on that agenda?
If not, all in favor?
That's carried. Since we have approved
an agenda, do or approved. Yeah,
approved agenda. Do we have any uh any
interest with regards to those three
items for council members? I got to make
sure I look at the screen. See what was
that? So, there's nothing declared at
this time. If one does arise, we can uh
you can declare it then.
So the first item of business is item
4.1 and this is with regards to a
proposed council chambers relocation and
there is there is a report that is
attached to the agenda that is there and
uh I don't know madame CEO it's a report
coming from yourself. Do you have
anything you wish to add or describe in
that uh agenda? There is a there is a
motion here I will need to read off but
I'll go to you right now. Uh thank you,
Mayor McQueen. Three of you. Um so
council's aware that we have been having
discussions ongoing with the county and
uh with the vacant space becoming
available uh in the adjacent uh entrance
way to this facility. Um we have been um
in discussions with them about how the
space could work uh for the
municipality. I mean, today is a good
example of of not having adequate space
and adequate accessible space um uh to
hold council meetings and and to receive
um uh constituents into the building. Um
I think at this point our capacity is 20
additional people outside of staff and
council. Um the space uh needs some
work. Um but uh county staff have uh
come to the table with with some options
that they're still reviewing. Uh but we
believe if the space is acquired, then
there's opportunity for leasing out uh
other municipal facilities that are
vacant or that could be vacant uh to
offset the additional rent. Um there is
money in a reserve uh put aside for
administrative uh building upgrades and
we haven't done any I believe since the
installation of our current equipment
which is now obsolete.
>> Uh so that would um that will need
upgrading anyway. We just felt that it
it's an opportunity uh to get a better
space more accessible and upgrade the AV
equipment so that uh um it's more
supportive of our meetings.
>> Okay. Thank you for that, Madam C. Any
questions uh to the CEO?
>> Councelor Duby.
[clears throat]
>> Uh thank you for the uh for the update.
Um, you know, so it's it's a real
benefit to be able to um move into new
space where we can accommodate uh you
know, more residents um and visitors uh
to our meetings and also bring staff in
to this building and um you know, house
staff in one location is is a real
benefit for for for work um and building
those relations. Um I I was just
wondering you know as you talk about you
know so the importance of modernizing um
our chambers and wondering um you know
if in terms of considerations when you
think about AV audio equipment um you
know could we also just consider
um you know the ability for to to be
able to move those equipment if we were
to be offsite safer like town halls etc.
um you know some of those things can't
always be um recorded you know I think
we do have some restrictions you know in
terms of our equipment but so not a
question but just a comment you know if
we can think about um offsite meetings
and be being able to record them as well
so thank you
>> well any comments to that madam co
>> or
this is a hightech question
» and I'm just going to turn my camera on.
Thank you. Through you. Um, so we are
having a few technical difficulties. So
I did want to mention that. Um, for
people that are trying to view it
through the portal, it doesn't seem to
be streaming through there, but we are
live on YouTube. So we're just trying to
work on that. That's was the one thing.
And sorry, can you just repeat that
question because I was troubleshooting.
>> No, no, no. And and thank you for for
doing double duty there. Thank
[clears throat] you very much. And
keeping everybody uh in tuned. Um so
wondering you know as we think about our
um technology and a you know audio AV
equipment. Can we also consider u
mobility of some of those those
equipment? So when we do have meetings
offsite like you know for example town
halls um you know we do have some
limitations and be able to record um you
know those types of meetings and so
consideration.
Thank you through you. Um so a lot of
the technology has changed in um since
2019 that was the year that um the
current system was approved. So a lot of
it is more wireless technology which
would allow for movement. Some of it
isn't. I mean, if you consider wireless,
you do have to consider charging and all
those things. And I do think the idea
would be to have a, you know, a a
designated council chambers spot. But in
the project, we can definitely look at
um, you know, some some technology that
could be moved, um, some wireless
technology or if there's anything that
could be saved from the existing system
that we could modify for an off-site um,
option, we would do that.
follow.
I know there was a pretty big
public meeting at one time that was held
in the Markdale Arena Community Center
and that was to do with Greg Gables.
It's the biggest public meeting I ever
did be part of and because the upstairs
space was full and they had to put
people downstairs. It was a it was a
public meeting. It was for the county.
But there are certain times when there
are certain events you need more space
because to accommodate more people. So
now that our system is hybrid,
that makes it a bit more tricky because
you're live, right? So like if you had a
public meeting where you're live and
you're recording and people could stream
it, the technology should be there as
you're saying. So I guess that would be
an example where or there's been times
when we've had to move a council meeting
into the egg office area because there
wasn't enough space here as well. There
were certain times I think there's times
where we maybe Paul I'm trying to think
if we had to go to a community center to
have a a bigger meeting. I remember
sometimes talking about doing it but
then that was before we're hybrid. We're
just a a regular council meeting or or a
public meeting. So but uh certainly with
technology and I'm sure there's other
municipalities that have figured it out
looking at Amanda
that have figured it out and having that
ability to move to a larger venue.
Deputy mayor.
>> Thank you mayor McQueen. I have a
different question if I'm not trying to
interrupt your trans
>> just make sure there's anything there.
Go ahead.
>> Um so for you may a question I have so
the report is asking for funds but also
speaks to the idea that a future lease
will have to come back to council. So
the two questions kind of revolve around
that scenario. One is does this body
have the authority to sign off on a new
lease during this term of council? we do
have three more meetings if the
negotiations happen and if we don't and
the lease agreement is coming to the
next term of council
why allocate the funds before the lease
is there so like kind of a what are we
actually allowed to do within the
linduct period I understand the
financial aspect to it but if we can't
sign off on the lease during this term
period then why give them
>> so I'll go back to you madam sea
>> thank you and that's a really good
question um so because we are already
tenants of uh Gray County and we already
leased this section of the building. Um
it would be actually an amendment to the
existing lease and I believe uh if
council approves the project that we
have delegation of authority to amend
that lease um not enter into any new
leases. Um and we suspect uh the terms
would be very similar to uh the terms
that we have for this lease. I I've been
verbally told that. Uh what we don't
know is how long renovations would take
and which of the renovations uh the
county would have to pay as the landlord
versus uh nice to have so to speak in a
lend in a rental uh uh position um from
a tenant standpoint. Um so that all has
to be worked out. Uh of course the
county's in lame duck as well. um as of tomorrow. Uh so staff um I did
meet with county staff and um we're
hoping to get enough between the two
budgets to to renovate the space and
figure out um you know the leasing when the lease will actually kick in, so
to speak, when it's actually uh able to
be occupied. Um, from from the Grey
Highland standpoint, um, we uh want to
keep as much uh of the existing uh
furniture and and things that we can. We
did uh Jerry Lynn and I went uh rumaging
up the talisman and were able to grab on
to 40 um very nice chairs uh that we can
use for a comfortable accessible gallery
where police officers can sit with their
belts on in the chairs. Um and we were
able to grab those and and and pick them
up. Uh so they're in storage in one of
our uh transportation buildings right
now. So, we're trying to utilize as much
in-house as we can. Um, we understand
the pressures on uh budget and and the
pressures council's facing, but
obviously the AV equipment is a is a big
piece. The accessibility is a big piece.
Although the county will have to as the
landlord um foot the bill for accessible
washrooms, uh door paddles, that kind of
thing, there may be some aesthetic uh
features that we might look at. Um we're
still discussing they're they're looking
at doing a whole retrofit of all the
lighting in the buildings. Um, but we
were looking and I know council had the
opportunity to look at the space at um some cosmetic
uh painting and and um uh the ceiling
and and you know uh there's a a wall
that we might want to take out that the
county wouldn't foot the bill for, but
we we Jerry Lyn and I have looked at it
and we may be able to make this
furniture work with that wall. We don't
know until we get this furniture in
there and then we we'd have to decide.
Um so it is an upset limit with the
majority of it going towards AV and
accessible um uh furniture and
equipment.
>> Any followup? Go ahead.
>> Thank you very much. That does clarify
kind of my first question. um not a
question, more of a comment I guess is
I understand the idea of having all the
staff on the same site, right? Like so
we do have residents that come into this
space looking for building department uh
permits and approvals and then they have
they get told sorry that's not here you
have to go around and vice versa staff
or residents will go to the 150 Lauren
Street and be told the same thing oh
sorry that's not us you have to go back
to the other site and so I really do
appreciate the benefit of having all
staff on site when I look at this space
myself and I and and let's agree that
today is a good example of why we might
need a new space in terms of the
residents that are here in this space to
uh here for a different item. Um but
that doesn't happen very frequently and
my concern is um
having council
move chambers, move location,
the to myself and my own personal
opinion, the optics of
um that location walking through other
places isn't a very professional
entrance into the space. I also have
concerns of removing in what I feel is
being removing staff and council or
separating staff and council further.
There isn't there is a walk space that
we know exists but it's not an open
transparent public walkspace between
that location that space and this space.
Um so I have challenges with that. I
also have challenges with if we look at
the physical footprint of council
chambers and even the small meeting
spaces that's connected that's kind of
works as you know council's um
coffee tea space doesn't actually
provide and I don't think it provides
enough space to move all the staff over
from 150 Lauren whereas the other
location the other space that we're
looking at for council chambers provides
more of that space to be able to bring
all the staff under one roof having
planning building and facilities and um
Sorry, the parks and recck team. I
realize that, you know, water and sewer
and transportation teams aren't exactly
going to be moving into this building.
That's not the goal, but having all of
our uh in-house people on the same site.
So, I have I I see the need to lease the
space to make sure that we don't lose
the opportunity to utilize it for
ourselves. Um, but I don't necessarily
agree with the idea of moving council
chambers to that space. I think
municipality needs it, yes, but how
we're going to use it maybe is still up
for discussion and debate. I don't know
what that means for today's discussion.
I I personally would say the discussion
is that staff should be directed to look
into leasing that space so it doesn't
get lost, that we don't see it get to
another organization that may have
another need for it because I do see the
value in it. But I think the discussion
of what the final decision of what
that's going to be is still open for
interpretation and perhaps not something
that
this body should do with this little
time left in this tournament. So thanks
very much madam CEO. Thanks.
>> Um thank you and uh through through
Mayor McQueen. Um so this room is not
accessible and and we're not just
looking at it from the standpoint of
residents coming or staff. We're looking
at it from a standpoint of the council
um disas itself. If if we're we're
facing an election, if if we have um uh
somebody voted in who who requires uh
space for a wheelchair, we we don't have
that space. We need it's the law. We
need to be accessible. So the chambers
uh is is the biggest requirement. It's
the thing that we've we've shifted this
desk around so many times trying to make
it work. It doesn't work and frankly
doesn't comply with legislation. So, we
need to look at an accessible public
council chambers uh for staff, for um
constituents, and for council members as
well. Um so, that would be the priority.
There is office space over there that
can be utilized um for overflow staff.
Uh we do have um some remote workers
that are not in office um all the time
but are here periodically um that we
could have landing stations set up for.
Um we could also have landing stations
set up for council members. Right now
Mayor McQueen is the only council member
with office space. Um, so we're looking
at uh office uh an office or landing
spots for members of council. I know
councel dubits have many meetings in
council chambers outside of uh council
meetings. Um so we're looking at those
opportunities. Um but there is overflow
office space. Um we also have uh in our
building department uh we are moving
things around taskwise
where the building inspectors themselves
will be on the road more than doing the
plans examination and and having one
plans examiner building inspector
inhouse. So we're looking at those
opportunities as well. Um and uh frankly
this point in time with most of the
documents on uh in electronic version um
office space desk requirements are
getting smaller. Um so there is
opportunity to update workstations in
the future to create more space. Uh but
some of the existing spaces that we have
in this uh side of the building right
now are not wheelchair accessible. Um so
we we need to look at that and ensure
that it is. Um, so that will be part of
the picture, but our focus on council
chambers is that it needs to be an
accessible space and it needs it needs
to meet the legislation. And then we'll
deal with the overflow and the staff uh
stations uh at a later piece because
they're smaller challenges at this
point. Any follow? Any follow
[clears throat] up? Just my office is
available for everyone
else.
>> Thank you, Mayor McQueen. So, I was
wondering about the urgency also um why
this is being brought actually to the
very last almost the very last day. Um,
you've answered the CEO has answered
some of that, but
we don't have lease costing.
Um, so we're authorizing some spending
of money before we have lease costing
and maybe we would be given that costing
before the money is spent. I'm not sure.
My main concern is well, two things.
Deputy Mayor touched on the the
separation. Somebody comes in here
looking for a certain apartment, it's
over there, they've got to go back
outside, over there, outside. If there
was a more direct route maybe, and
they're having to walk past um another
organization to get to council chambers,
but I really wonder if we should be
making this decision for the new council
as of now. and we still have about 24
hours, but right now there is only one
council member that is guaranteed to be
back. And again, that could change
between now and this time tomorrow. So,
I I don't feel that we should be making
a decision the very last day for a new
council. Thank you.
Any other comments?
Oh, hold on. A response. Madam CEO Ben.
>> Uh, thank you. I just want to clarify
that yes, this is a decision on the
table today and yes, it's the last day
before lame duck, but this we've been
discussing this for 18 months. Like it's
not new uh to council. It it's just that
we found obviously when you're heading
towards lame duck, you start looking at
the list of outstanding items and
thinking, well, we need to have a
decision on this if we wanted to make it
to move forward. we need a decision on.
So, it just came down to what's on the
list that we don't have decisions for
that we need or may need decisions for
during the lame duck period. Um, but you
know, it's been an ongoing discussion
with council that we have been looking
at kids and us and council's had uh the
opportunity to tour the space. Um, it's
just not been high on our priority list
for obvious reasons. We've had a lot of
other more pressing priorities. Um, but
if we want to go ahead with the space,
um, as deputy mayor said, we don't want
to lose the opportunity of of, uh, the
county advertising and and losing that
space. So either way, um, you know,
we'll we'll make it work. Um, it's what
we do, but, uh, we are not compliant
with accessibility.
>> Yeah, thank you for that, M. I think
Yes.
>> Oh, yes. Yes, I saw Joe, but I got
councelor Alwood first and councelor Joe
Lhead.
>> Thank you, member McQueen for you. I
mean, we uh this is not a nice to have
thing. The accessibility issue is real.
Um the inefficiencies and obsolescence
of AV equipment is a real problem and
the fact that this space is currently
available but may not be available uh if
we don't move on it. Uh I I think we
need to to do something today. Thank
you. Okay.
Any response? No. Okay. Go ahead,
Council Lohead.
>> Thank you, Mayor McQueen. And um
apologies, I I can't be in chambers
today. It's actually my my wife's
grandfather's 92nd birthday tomorrow, so
um in Ottawa, so I wasn't able to make
it home. Um but uh I'm agreeing here
with uh with Councelor Allen in regards
to um this decision being made by this
council for for future councils. Um it's
a a point well taken that only one is
guaranteed to remain uh going forward.
Um this is a big decision and I
understand um staff's um the the urgency
with which staff brought this forward to
make sure that they they got this off of
the list. I mean this is at the last day
to deal with this in this term of
council. Um but it's uh it's a big
decision. It comes with a a big price
tag um at a time when we're facing a lot
uh increasing um budgetary pressures. Um
I [clears throat] I have a feeling that
uh the next term of council um may very
well not agree with this decision and I
think it's their council chambers and
their decision to make. Um so although I
understand that we we're not perfectly
in compliance with accessibility uh
legislation currently as our CEO says
we're able to make things work. Um, I
have a feeling we'll be able to make
this work and I I uh think that this
decision should be deferred to the next
term of council, the upcoming term of
council and um that council can make
this decision.
>> Okay. I will read the I will will read
the resolution and if somebody cares put
it on the table or what's your wish
counc
um to our CEO what is the risk if we do
not um move ahead with uh with this
motion as presented. Thank you.
>> Go ahead.
>> Thank you Mayor McQueen to you. Um so
obviously the risk is losing prime real
estate right next door. Uh I know it's
not ideal and not in one building. Um if
we uh are at capacity or um I don't want
to go down the human rights side of
things but um are forced uh to to
make our space accessible by the
province for some reason. Um we may have
to look at alternative
uh facilities. We do have a very decent
uh rental agreement with the county. Um
they've been um very good uh with their
rental rates. Um and and they have told
me that the same square footage rate
will apply to the kids and us space. Um
it's just a matter of you know like I
said amending the existing lease. So no price increase per square foot. Um so
those are the risks. uh if if if we're
forced into relocating at least the
council chambers and and uh making
everybody's workstation accessible. Uh I
don't know where we would find a space
large enough uh within Grey Islands to
accommodate everything. So that's a bit
of a risk. um we can look at uh dividing
and and splitting up and housing people
in other locations uh across the
municipality. We do have the Rockland
Schoolhouse that is vacant. Um uh that's
a possibility. Um but other than that,
uh we're talking about facilities like
our community halls or or uh the complex
for overflow. So,
>> so just before I go to another calls
here, I guess um I'm sort of seeking if
there is I hear support support for
possibly a lease or deferring it. So, I
just want to throw that out there that
before I read it off if there's some
direction for me then I'll take that.
So, I'll get councelor Allen first and
then
>> Well, I was going to make a motion and I
guess a question through you to the
clerk.
If this is just received for
information,
can it be brought back
to new council? Okay. in the same
basically the same
>> M court. [clears throat]
» Um through you mayor McQueen. Thank you
for that question. If this is received
for information essentially the uh
project is done. Um so I would say no.
This would not be brought back to the
new council if this was just received
for information.
>> Okay. So you could receive information
and be directed to go to the new new
council.
>> Yeah. Well, I think all we'd have to do
and I'll make the motion is to defer
this to new council.
» Okay. Is that a proper procedure, Madam
Madame Clerk?
>> Just want to make sure we're
procedurally.
» Um, so for a deferral, we need a time.
So um and a purpose
for the deferral.
>> Well, the purpose would be for the next
council to decide and the time would be
in
within the next available council uh agenda.
>> No, I don't think we should have it at
the first council meeting.
>> No,
>> when staff feels that new council is
ready to make an informed decision.
>> Okay. I I you're you're dropping a
motion. So I want to make sure we drop
that motion before I ask for a second.
Now councelor Lohead, are you are you
seconding that or Okay.
Now there is the issue around the lease
and securing that lease which I think
you said something. Could the lease and
while that's being drafted I guess
through you madam to you madam co can
the draft if if that was part of could
the could the leasing still be
secured or discussing could that come
back to this current council
madame clerk I'm stepping out of order
[laughter]
>> um through you mayor McQueen if we are
putting a deferral motion on the floor
that's all we can discuss is the
deferral so I want to be clear that if
council has intentions of doing part of
this motion
>> I'm thinking Yeah,
>> then we should not put a deferral on
just yet.
>> But it is councelor Allen's wishes. So I
want to kind of go back there
>> and that's it's very important he knows
all the aspects of what he's getting
himself ahead of here. Go ahead.
>> I'm making a motion to defer the whole
thing because we don't need a lease
agreement if new council decides not to
go forward.
>> Okay, it's pretty clear. Council
Lowhead, were you seconding that?
Okay, that motion's on the floor. Deputy
mayor
Thank you very much, Mayor McQueen. I
would think that we should be a bit more
specific with when the deferring is
happening. Um, I would disagree that the
first meeting of council uh isn't the
best one. Part of this is a budgetary
discussion. Part of this is
understanding what the cost might be.
So, if you want the next term of council
to take a look at this and consider it,
then it should be considered
right away so that there can be a budget
discussion as part of the 2027 budget.
And then that way um you're not
potentially losing an entire year like
at the part of the leasing cost and all
that kind of stuff would be part of that
discussion. Um and then I think it could
be a bit more successful. So that's my
sorry I didn't look under my paper.
Amend a deferral to the actual specific
date of the first regular council
meeting of the next term.
>> So point of order your point.
>> Yeah. I mean if if the motion to defer
is on the floor moved and second it is
not debatable. The only thing that's
discussed is the time
>> and discuss time
>> no amendments can be made
>> right amendments. Yeah. So madam clerk
can you read the motion off so that
everybody's clear with the motion and
then I got councelor Wickens
the deferral motion. You can't make
amendment to a deferral motion.
little bar here somewhere
>> through you, Mayor McQueen. Um, that
council defer the consideration of this
report uh to the new term of council.
>> Yep. And I'm would presume that the
first meeting of the new council would
be in the early part of December
generally, right?
>> Well, there'll be one in November.
Oh, no. The first meeting the first
meeting of council
>> sheet says it can be amended and can be
debated and I both like to amend it.
>> Okay, hang on. Hang on. So I'm I got if
you're pointing point I got I got to
check this out. So uh this is for a
deferral
and it says uh debatable. Yes.
Amendable. Yes.
>> Madam clarity on that madam clerk.
[laughter]
>> Through you mayor McQueen. You can't
amend the deferred part. What you can
amend is the time in which it's deferred
to.
So yes, that is debatable and amendable.
>> The spe the the specifics of the
deferral.
>> Yes,
>> you're clear. Okay. Are you making
amendment?
>> I will amend to defer to the first
regular meeting of the new term of
council.
>> Do I have a second for that? Councelor
Duby. And that's what I was trying to
get clarity when that was going to be.
>> Okay. I got councelor Duby. I did want
to catch councelor Wickkins because he
hasn't spoke yet but uh I'll allow the amendment to to stand because
it's sort of small to the main part. So
go ahead councelor Dubick you wish to
speak to the amendment. Yeah, but just
in in support of that um I think it is
like I think timing here is also
important so that we continue to um make
a decision sooner than later and um it
is something that you know should be put
so agree in terms of you know it should
be put you know on the first meeting
possible for the new council. Um we you
know we don't want to lose it. Um you
know the county you know if we defer it
too long the county u may not have
confidence in us to to move through with
it. Thank you.
>> I I would say we probably been a pretty
good tenant
and we pay our bills. I see them. They
sign off on them. Okay. Anything? Do you
want to speak to the deferral, Council
Rickens? Because I know you wanted to
speak to the main.
>> No, no, I realize that. So, that's what
I'm saying. Do you want to speak to the amendment that's on the floor,
Council Rickens?
>> Yeah. I'll I'll say that I'll support
the amendment because I mean we went
over and rese
uh we don't know how many seats we're
going to gain in the gallery. We don't
know how much it's going to cost us
uh for the renting of it and we haven't
seen a design.
>> We don't know what the place is going to
look like. I got to be careful not to
>> I know but there's a lot of stuff we
don't know. So I'm just saying I'm
supporting
>> the deferral. How's that?
>> Well the deferral right now as to the
first council meeting. We're still going
to come back to the main motion. Yeah.
Okay. I'll come back to you. And just
for clarity there was a statement. Do
you wish to clarify that statement with
regards to kids or back
>> for a point of clarity? Kids and us is
not in the location that the staff are
looking at. Kids and us is taking over a
smaller portion in the front of the
building.
>> Yeah.
>> So it is
>> Yeah. and they're still not there.
That's my clarity. They're still not in
this space with time.
>> Okay. So, the amendment that's on the
floor is to bring it to the first
meeting of the new council.
>> That I'm clear on that council or madam
clerk.
>> Just for clarity, I put the first
regular meeting because I don't want it
to come to the inaugural. [laughter]
>> Yeah, that's that's that's good. No.
Okay. Any last discussion on the
amendment to the deferral?
Seeing none. All in favor?
Opposed?
That's carried. Okay. Council Rickens,
do you wish to add anything else to the
motion that has been amended? The
deferral that has been amended. Do you
wish to speak to
>> No, it's all good.
» Okay. So, the main motion is on the
floor is to defer it with the time. Any
last uh discussion on it being deferred
to the new council at the first regular
council meeting?
Any last comments from staff? Seeing
none, all in favor?
Opposed? That is carried. Okay. So,
these trusty little sheets come in handy
once in a while.
All right. Moving on then to the next
item, which is uh that saved me reading
that all off. So, next item is 4.2, the
Flesherin uh depot roof replacement.
And I'm just going to pull it back here
to pull that up. [clears throat]
So, this was brought to our last council
meeting with regards to an urgent
circumstance that has arose with the
Flesherin depot. There is a a motion
there. There's a report. I don't know
your staff or Chris, do you wish to add
anything to that report? Uh, director
Kornfield.
» Um, through you, Mayor McQueen. Uh, no.
Um, but obviously if there's questions,
uh, we'll answer those bill.
>> It was on our published agenda, so I'll
go out then to council with and then
I'll I'll read the motion here if
there's feeling toward that. Go ahead,
councelor Allen.
>> I'll move the motion as written.
Council Rickens a second. So, I'll read
it that council receives sorry, council
received report TPS
26- uh27 Flesher depot roof replacement
for information and that council directs
staff to award the Flesher depot roof
replacement project to HB by
construction and engineering as a
limited tender under section D4 and that
council authorize an upset limit of
$280,000.
Sorry. $280,000 excluding HST to be
funded from the facility reserve. And
that's been moved by councelor Allen,
second by councelor Wicens.
Discussion.
Any discussion?
All right. Seeing none, all in favor?
That is carried unanimously. Okay. Well,
that's we've been on now to 4.3.
Okay.
So, uh, 4.3, this is regards to the
Rocklin Arena phase one investigation
and stabilization update and we have,
uh, director, uh, Krauss here today, and
there is a report there. Uh, I don't
know, Shaunette, if you have any, uh,
comments or any any other things you
wish to add with regards to that report.
>> Uh, the report uh, stands as is.
Unfortunately, I don't have anything new
uh to report at this point in time other
than Belffor is working away at uh the
investigation at this point as well too.
I do want to bring up a few one more
item though. Um I know there's been a
lot of concern and and uh that in
regards to some of the remediation staff
walking in and out of the building uh
without PPE. I do want to make it very
clear to to council and the public that
they have a cleaned area when they get
into the building. Um, everything is
sectioned off in there. So, yes, you
will see people in and out and I know
that is a concern, but they are they do
have their PPE on in there and
respirators. So, I just wanted to make
that uh publicly known as well too
because I know it's been a concern for
some people out there as well. But at
this point, no, I don't have anything
further to update, but we will have the
final reports as of next week. Um some
of the uh tests are at the uh the
laboratory uh taking place and there'll
be more testing as well too within the
week as well.
>> And I think in the report you have
indicated that there is um
machines or equipment in there trying to
do you want to speak to that at all
please?
>> Uh they do currently have air scrubbers
and air management systems in there. So
what that does, it takes the particles
out of the air um so they can further
investigate that area without further
contamination taking place. So
>> and have they indicated a certain area
that has more than other areas that have
more that's coming in that report?
>> At this point they haven't said uh too much. Um there is there's quite a
few as as we all know with the testing
and that that was done before. Um but
they will have those recommendations and
uh results definitely moving forward
next week. And will that be available
for September 2nd?
>> Yes.
>> Would that be? Okay. All right.
Questions from council members. So,
there is a there is a recommended uh
resolution there, but uh go ahead,
Deputy Mayor.
>> Uh right now, I'll just move the motion
to get on the floor for discussion.
>> Yeah. Do I have a second dub? So, the
council receives report CSD
26.22
22 Rockland Arena phase one
investigation and stabilization update
for for information and that's moved by
Deputy Mayor Nilson second by councelor
Dubik. Discussion
councelor Dubik.
>> Uh thank you Mayor McQueen. Um so just a
question for staff. Um, so the Rockland
fall fair is coming up and and I do want
to thank everybody um for cooperating um
you know between community um and staff
so that the fall fair can be another
success as it always is. Um and we do so
there are um accommodations that need to
be made. Um I do understand um you know
that the egg society has been working
with staff to provide a list of items to
make sure that they do have what they
need. Um so just a question to staff,
could you just provide us um an update
in terms of you know how is that going?
Um and B, um are there any financial
implications that need to be considered,
you know, given the fact that they're
moving out of the regular facility and
possibly needing to rent tents, etc. to
facilitate to facilitate the event.
Thank you,
>> Director Rose.
>> Mayor McQueen to councelor Dubick. Yes,
actually the fair has been really great.
They've provided a nice email of what is
needed and what they have already. Uh we
will be going in. staff will um be going
to the facility next week. We will
coordinate that with the fair and have
those items removed from the building by
the remediators. There was a request uh
to use an alternate facility. We are
actually looking into that at the moment
to see um its cleanliness and and if
it's up to up to par and that to to host
such a such an event as well too. So
that you will have an answer to that as
well too. In regards to finances, yes.
Um the group has asked for chairs and
such items. Um other things may come up
between now and then as well too. That's
all underneath the 50,000 threshold and can be decided upon I'm sure um if
need be if we're in a lame duck
situation.
any followup or and I know you had a
meeting last Thursday with the community
group and I I want to thank Shet for
providing some information for that
meeting. I think that was important and
a continuation of information is always
important as well, right? So, council
councelor Allen,
>> thank you.
I was really hoping that we
would have had a report for this
meeting. Me too.
>> But obviously not so that we could have
made an informed decision. I'm just
thinking of all the things and I've made
a a list. I could be missing things.
There's the ice plant, remediation of
mold, perhaps remediation of asbestous,
reconstruction costs, HVAC equipment
replacement, and then other equipment,
I'll call it, like mats and things that
I'm sure they're a lot of the things are
going to be just thrown out as opposed
to
>> we rent the mats.
>> Okay. All right.
>> Yeah, but it'll have to be changed. So,
is that a million dollars or is it two
million or is it 5 million? We have no
idea. Um I just
I'll just end it there because I I don't
know what we're going to do, what we can
do at this point. So, so a thought I had
mentioned at our last meeting or the
special meeting was is could they get
the arena open before the other part the
arena is the big part for the for the
winter ice surface time and uh um I have
some comments I'll add maybe in a minute
but you know is it in bite size and and
I understand from the 2012 report that
there were some indication of some
pressure they went in with pressure
washes and it cleaned the arena out that
was able to be done. Go ahead, council.
>> But to me, we still need to know
those other costs. If they say, "Okay,
to get the arena going, it's it's
600,000 or, you know, 200,000 or a
million.
Do we put that money into it not knowing
what the other half is going to cost
us?" There comes a point when we have to
decide, is this something that we can
fix or do we replace?
like if if the hall is to the point
where it's going to cost millions of
dollars, tear it down and build a new
hall.
>> Um like we're starting I think I think
we're some of us are thinking
to throw money at this not knowing what
the total cost is.
» Yeah, there's there's a bit of unknown
for sure. I guess the point is from what
I've seek from clarity here from staff
was if this is left and there's no upset
limit of any money to be spent so
basically receive it for information
then it's dealt with the new council
which I think the first meeting is in
December some point of time does that
mean that this winter season for the
hockey is is no longer I think that's the big issue because we because
up until today this body can have an
upset upset limit to what that could
maybe to get the ice surface open. If
not, after tomorrow, it goes to the new
council and that information and and
even that report comes forward on the
2nd.
Any money under 50,000, which could be
small for the fair, and get that stuff
going,
it's lost. Madam clerk,
through you, Mayor McQueen, I just
wanted to comment um that staff reports
are actually due tomorrow for the
meeting on the 2nd. So, if we didn't
have the information today, I highly
doubt we're going to have it in time for
the second,
>> right?
>> Just just if we can, great. If we can't,
>> yeah,
>> well,
>> just be prepared.
>> It just I think the fair is on the 20,
what's the date of the M the Rockland
fair and if that doesn't come into the
second meeting in September, that could
be problematic as well.
Do you have any comment to that? Uh,
Director Gross. No, I do. Okay.
>> Sure. uh through you I know uh it has
been mentioned um once we get those
reports and know what's going on there
um I did speak to Belffor as requested
by council after our last meeting there
and they're okay to section off and work
on that arena area as a priority but
again it all comes down to I don't know
how much it's going to cost we don't
have that information in front of us at this point yet as far as the fair
goes I think um I feel that we have of
good working relationship and we'll
definitely make sure that goes off
without a hitch regardless if it is in a
building or outside of a building. Um
we've had to do it and help Mark Dale
for the last few years too unfortunately
and um as far as that goes I think we're
good to go.
>> So they they agreed to the part that the
arena could be separated from the other
part.
>> Absolutely they did. if that's um once
you get your once we get all the reports
back and and the pricing and the costing
to repair that'll be the first thing we
bring forward and they can definitely
prioritize the arena section if uh
council chooses to move ahead at that
point in time with all of the
recommendations.
>> So that's what I'm saying is there could
be a possibility we could have an upset
limit that could cover that portion
as we just did in the last resolution.
There was an upset limit. Councelor
Allen,
>> are there washrooms in the arena part?
>> No, there's washrooms in the center
part. Did they speak to about that?
Director Crow,
>> for you, Mayor McQueen, to councelor
Allen, that would be part of the um the
arena portion. So, that portion would
become a priority.
>> And I I understand that even Wilton's
have washrooms that could provide it if
that was the case. I think there's
something with the hydro panel as well.
It's in the entrance. Yeah, it's it's yeah, it's a tough situation for
council to be in in the circumstances
where we are, but I think from as we all
recall the delegation that we had at the
last meeting is hockey is very important
in that facility and there's 140 kids in
that Saturday morning hockey as well
along with all the other users as well.
Ruby.
» Thank you, Mayor McQueen. Um,
timing is so unfortunate right now. Um,
you know, and and you know, and and the
lack of information, right? Um, so so
that's that's that's the challenge. Um,
you know, we we um, you know, there is the option of, you know, do you
put an upside limit? Um, you know, is
there a fair amount where council could
be comfortable?
um you know to you know to move to cover
the remediation costs. So so that's sort
of I think you know I think we should
directly address that because I think
that's a a valid question. Um, you know,
>> just on that, just on that. So, madame
clerk, if if if this body was to put an
upset limit of whatever that figure was
and the report comes forward and the
report says we can we can bite-size it
and we can do the arena first and do
this. Can then council decide that from
that upset limit, can council make that
decision of up to that amount if it's
already been approved by this body?
>> Uh, thank you, Mayor McQueen. I actually
got a legal opinion on this uh just this
week because I had a feeling this
question was going to come up. Um no,
short answer is no. Council cannot do
that. Council can set an upset limit,
but then during the lame duck period, C
council cannot make further decisions on
how to spend that upset limit. Um that
would then be under staff's uh
>> I guess authority at that point or it
could wait to the new term of council.
But during the lame duck period,
>> right, okay,
>> that can't be done.
>> So if there was an upset limit set, the
delegated authority or staff could make
that decision how they spent that money
up to that level.
I
>> think that's important that this body
knows that. Thank you for that.
>> Yeah. And so thank you for that clarity.
Um, you know, and you know, as councelor
Ellen has pointed out, um,
you know, there's there's two very
important points of decision. So, one is
the remediation, right? So, that's the
short-term remediation to keep the doors
open for, you know, for the make it
healthy, you know. Yeah. To ensure it's
healthy that people can go in uh for the
short term. Then it's then the second
big decision is the what's the long-term
solution? So what does this facility
look like going forward you know for the
next 50 years? Um and there is an
interdependency between the two. there
can be right because if the remediation
is a million dollars well then why would
we sink you know then the question
becomes why would we sink a million
dollars into the remediation when hey
you know what unfortunately maybe we
have to just um not have a season and
move all those you know move that big uh
chunk of change you know um and direct
it to the long-term next 50 years um you
know a solution um so so it hinges on
that um so so when we think about right
so what I'm thinking about like you know
what our next steps as council is I'm
thinking about what information we have
and when as well so when we think about
September when we walk into you know so
September 2nd we won't have a report
because more information right because
right maybe we'll have something maybe
verbally but nothing written because we
have to ensure we have a process that
supports proper information that comes
to the public and right so then that
means um the next meeting which is
midepptember so so we'll get the report
official report say hopefully
midepptember if everything goes to kitty
boot um and then so at that point you
know what other information would we
have like you know would we you know
because depending upon that report and
the smaller price takes attached to that
report for the first you know decision
for remediation. Would we also have some
additional information in terms of you
know a long-term um solution where you
know you know and that long-term
solution you know um would be you know
worst case scenario you tear everything
down and rebuild and rebuild like for
like. So maybe maybe if we can just get
a little bit of context of what could we
expect to help the decision-making
process for midepptember.
>> Dr. Crow,
>> there we go. Um yes, you may to
councelor Dubick. Honestly, uh and I'm
going to be very honest and frank, that
is the starting point. We really can't
look at much anything else until that
report comes back because we don't know
if it's that severe or not severe. We
don't know um once it comes back if if
there's mold right into the which it was
suggested during the original report
that it's right into the you know the
core of the building into the the beams
and the studs. So we don't know what
that until all that comes back. um we
don't know what that originally is is
going to cost at the direction of
council. If council does choose, I can
look into further um like forl like
buildings um if you would like but again
it's still going to be very different
because of the age of the buildings. I
could reach out to other municipalities
their age of their building might be
very different. We know our system here
is freon system sort of type thing that
others may not have. Um, so again, a
starting point after this, if if council
was going to look at a rebuild or
pricing, you would want a good engineer,
a structural engineer report um to
provide that information. I know that's
not what everyone wants to hear right
now, but um you want to make sure if
you're doing it, you're doing it right.
So
>> Chadzsworth Chadzsworth went through
this and they had hoped to rebuild, but
it's parking lot.
They they made the decision up there and
it's tore down and it's parking lot.
>> Uh thank you, Mayor McQueen. I'm I'm
I I'm speak uh through you as uh as a
staff member heading hurling towards
lame duck and uh
nervously anticipating
next steps. Um
we we did have a report from a
consultant that said we we had twice as
many ice pads as as we should for 10,000
residents. Since then, I think we've
added four outdoor ice pads. Um maybe
five.
Um,
my concern is from a lame lame duck and
an upset limit standpoint, if if council
passes an upset limit today,
um, and staff makes the decision what to
spend that on and then come September
when the mechanic comes in and and
attempts to start up the refrigeration
system and that refrigeration system has
issues or requires there's
some kind of significant repair.
That decision is now on staff to say
what this money spent on. I'm not
comfortable with that. I'm not
comfortable with it for many reasons.
One, it it's very emotional, very
passionate uh situation
and and two, for four years we've known
this and no decision has been made. And
now it seems unfair that these decisions
are going to be put on staff.
So I'm I'm speaking very
candidly
because I I think we need some decisions
from council as to which direction they
want to go in with the four arenas. And
if that's yes, we want to keep the four
arenas. We want to invest in them. at
least and staff has an idea of which way
this term of council is going, but we
don't know what's on the other side and frankly
I don't want to be the scapegoat for
this personally as a staff member.
I would suggest if there was an upset
limit that it's somewhat clearly
specified or just detailed to a certain
point of where it be should be spent and
I would say that would be to to um to
get the arena back open
because that's the part that I think
it's critical I think from and again
that that whole debate around four
arenas and and that it came in through
that report I think there was supposed
to report come back with regards to that
major report to come back with some
ideas of what repurposing a arena two
arenas were, but that report never did
come back. There's a whole bunch of
reports that were supposed to come back
and they never came back.
So, you know, I guess the question is
about four arenas. Yes, it's a it's a
bigger debate, [clears throat]
but I think this body is has maintained
to have four arenas. So, I think I want
to zero back in right now is we have we
have a facility that's been closed
because of of health reasons and we're
here today, a special meeting today to
decide. We can't have the report before
this before 2:00 tomorrow because that's
not possible. It's a disappointment, but
it's not possible. So, the only other
option we can do here and it's been said
that the arena can be sectioned off from
the main part. And I think it said from
the delegation here a couple weeks back
that 90% of the revenue comes from that
arena which is important.
I'm getting no. Oh, I thought you were
No. Anyway, that was what came back. So,
I think the the business it's not going
to be the same kind of business if
that's the case. But I think that's the
question I I think it should in front of
council today. Is council prepared to
put an upset limit? It's been mentioned
that it could be dealt with separately
than the than the main part of that uh
community center. Is council
in the M frame of mind to consider an
upset limit to get that arena open
today? And I guess that's a question I'm
reaching out to this council.
In my mind, it's'll be up to 500,000.
But Madam CO,
>> thank you, Mayor McQueen. We also need
to know how that's going to be funded.
>> Yeah. Well, okay. That that's that's a
discussion here. Yes,
we do have as that management reserve.
Councelor Lohead, you got a question.
>> Sir, who am I looking at?
>> Yeah. Um,
>> yeah, thank you, Mayor McQueen. And
obviously there's um a lot to to
consider here. Um, good points coming
from all around the table. Um, you know,
I understand our our CEO's feelings and
position here. It's a very difficult
position for our staff to be put in. Um
that's a large delegation of of power.
Um I think councelor Dubick um said it best that we I don't want to put
words in her mouth here, but we don't
want to endanger the long-term um
forecast of of this facility uh for the
short-term gain of of one ice season. Um
and we have to keep in mind it's not
just the long-term forecast of this
facility. It's the long-term forecast of
the, you know, um the fiscal reality of
Grey Highlands
on large. Um this is a a a very large
and expensive piece of infrastructure um
in a big municipality that has many of
those all aging. Um so, um we're all in
agreement, I believe, that we would love
to see this arena stay open and I think
we can all agree that we'd love to be
for it to be open this season. Um but um
if that if being open this season comes
at the expense of the future of the
facility um it's it just isn't a a price
worth paying. So um to your point Mayor
McQueen of of an upset limit I mean I
think it's not a bad idea but we have to
be realistic about how big that number
can be.
for that.
I think again the upset limit
is again it was identified in the arena
portion in 2012 that had mold in they
went in and they took a pressure washer
and they cleaned it up and it wasn't
half a million dollars to do that. So,
and using a half a million in the sense
at the top part of I I would hope really
it's a lot less than that to get it
open. And that depends on as council
Allen said with regards to washrooms and
uh in the facility, but it is a bricks
and mortar part of the arena itself.
It's not the It's not the same as the
other part where as I think Director
Crow said with 2x4s and and insulation
and drywall, it's a different part of
the building that probably has more more
and that's where I think I think that's
where part of most of the part of it was
found. But again, again, it's up to that won't come back till September to
see what that's going to be. I guess the
question to you Seanette is if there was
funds set aside then and and if I I
would take it that uh Belelffort will
come back and they'll have it broken
down to what needs what
and you did indicate that they are
prepared or could look at isolating it.
So I think those are the points that we
have to think about is that comes back
and maybe it's $100,000 to get the arena
back open. I know there's the issue with
the ice surface. We have been told that
our person who does certify that will
certify it for one more year. We've had
the delegation and we've had the
conversation about replacing that. We
know we have to look at that because of
the system, but is there I guess the
other question I think council has to
look at is there good bricks and mortar
in that arena. It's not all four arenas
I think are different sizes. I think
that was in that one report. Councelor
Wicens.
» Thank you, Mayor McQueen.
>> [clears throat]
» So, we talk about that consultant
report.
I think I've said it before, but we did
the math.
Um, I think it was last year. Um, if the
usage was the same and we went down to
two ice surfaces, we'd be running 24/7
on two ice services.
>> Yes.
>> Well, we did it then. I asked for it.
Anyways, uh
so we've got uh our Markale Arena is
coming back online hopefully and we have
a contract and I believe it's going to
take 75% of the ice time in Markdown.
So that's going to be busy.
Um and our last committee, the whole we
voted unanimously. Uh, I mean it it
wasn't a council decision, but everybody
said yes, let's put the $150,000
into looking and see. So, we already
started down the rabbit hole in my
opinion.
Um,
the uh
the thinking,
you know, like say Southgate's only got
one arena. Well, that's that's true, but
they al also have uh Flesherton and they
have Shelurn and they have Mount Forest
and they have Eaton and they have Durham
all within less than 10 minutes if
you're living on the outskirts of
Southgate, you know. So, we're in a kind
of a a different situation. But
um
Rocklin,
they're a rural community. Um
that's their meeting that's their
meeting place
and uh
it shouldn't have be
um I don't think they should lose their
arena.
I mean, they've got a big pledge.
This This isn't easy. Like, it's not
easy for me to say this, but um I think
they should keep it.
And uh they've got almost a quarter of a
million dollars.
They say that's ready to go.
I think uh I'm going to make a motion we
put an upset limit of a quarter of a
million dollars.
And when we get all the facts and
everything like that, we know it's going
to cost us to get it up and running. We
can decide then whether we spend it or
not or staff can decide to spend it or
not.
However you want to put it
and I'm going to put that motion on the
floor, right?
>> Oh, hang on. I'm going to get clarity
here just to get it done the right way.
Madam clerk,
>> [clears throat]
>> uh, thank you, Mayor McQueen. Um, I
would say that we need more than just a
dollar value. I would say we need
direction on what that entails and where
that dollar amount is coming from.
>> All right. Uh from the uh
from the standpoint of uh of uh what
we're going to do with the money to get
the arena up and running
and from uh
from our monies that uh I'm not exactly
sure Anna can help me out with this. We
have $2 million in the account right
now. Asset management.
» Just for clarity. So4 million is to get
the arena back up and running to come
out of asset management reserve. Is that
what you're saying?
>> Yep.
>> Madam clerk.
>> Thank you, Mayor McQueen. Just to make
sure I have it right. You're talking the
arena portion only and not the hall or
you're talking Yes.
>> Okay. I just
um do you mind if I read out what I kind
of have drafted so that before it's
seconded so everybody knows?
>> Absolutely.
>> Thank you. Um so that the main motion be
amended to add and that council direct
staff to prioritize the reopening of the
Euphrasia Memorial Rockland Community
Center Arena portion for this upcoming
ice season and that council authorize an
upset limit of $250,000 excluding HST to
be funded from the asset management
reserve.
>> Is that correct? That's good. Okay. Do I
have a seconder?
Second. Councelor Duby.
I think councelor Allen. Okay. From the
mover and the second. Do you have
anything to from the mover and the
second do you have anything to add to
the motions on the floor? And I know
councelor Dubick, you did second. So I
we'll go to you before I go to councelor
Allen.
>> Um so so thank you. So so I do want to
get this on the floor and I just do want
to um clerk Vanelstein, can you just
read that one more time?
Um through you, Mayor McQueen, that the
main motion be amended to add and that
council direct staff to prioritize the
reopening of the Euphr Frraasier
Memorial Rockland Community Center Arena
portion for this upcoming ice season and
that council authorize an upset limit of
$250,000 excluding HST HST to be funded
from the asset management reserve.
>> Go ahead.
Uh so so just to provide some clarity um
you know I would also think that if the
250 upside limit was used um it's not
used just to get it partially there like
it like it would it would need to be
like if 250 would cover opening the the
arena
right so I just wanted to make sure that
that's that's the meaning of it like we
wouldn't use a part we wouldn't use the
250 but still keep it closed because you
know we still had another step to go
type of thing right so so 250 would have
to cover the opening
>> and I would think if there's maintenance
on something maintenance would be
different than getting something open
because of the the situation like if if
it was in our budget from some other
point right
» go ahead
>> right and then the the flip side to that
then is you know if if it would cost
more than 250 then we wouldn't we
wouldn't
move ahead and then it would be closed
for the season.
>> Okay. I'm looking at councilor Wiccans
what you're like it just needs to be
clear because staff need to have that
clarity too, right?
I'm happy with that.
And maybe the Rockland folks would if I
was over that the Rocklin folks put
their money where their mouth is.
>> So that was the question I had in the
back of my mind. If it costs more than
250, can donations from the community
put that over to get it open? Is that a
pro? Is that is that is that available?
Because I know we have donations in
other Kimberly in the Kimberly Forest.
We have Kimberly Hall has donations that
does hang on just saying I'll get to
you. Does donations because you asked
the question. Does donations
can help if it was cost 300,000?
because I think that's an important part
that needs to be cleared. Madam seal,
>> thank thank you um member Queen to you.
Th this is very muddy. [laughter]
We're now talking about approving
$250,000
and staff has the delegated authority to
spend that. But now you're talking about
if it costs more and the community comes
forward, then
we we can
ask some clarity. Is that a possibility?
Can that work? Can that happen?
>> No, that doesn't work. We need clear
direction. We can't we can't move into
lame duck on um maybe the community is
going to pay for the different like
no we we would put that in the motion
that if that was the case I think that's
the question was being asked is if
that's the case
is it a possibility if it's in the
motion that if it was a little bit more
can the volunteer money or can the
community put it over that top
>> no it needs to sorry mine needs to be
clear. That's what I'm saying.
>> It needs to be not if or
>> okay
>> a little bit. It's got to be this must
happen. If this happens, this happens
then this happens. It has to be clear
direction for staff.
>> Okay. We'll come back to councelor
Allen. Sorry, I apologize. you were
given.
>> So, is this money to go towards
remediation and reconstruction
only or if the plant is ready to fire up
and it doesn't fire? Does the money go
towards that?
>> Well, that's why I said there's there's budget money would normally make
maintenance money or whatever that would
be.
>> I don't think a new ice plant is
maintenance.
>> Oh, no, no, no. But I think I think if
that's if it doesn't if that fails, that
doesn't matter if the arena's is the way
it is. If that fails, that would happen
anyway, even if this didn't come.
>> I'm I'm going to say this and I'm going
to say it right to the Rockton people
that
I'd love you to have the arena for this
ice season.
>> I I I sort of think you got to go
through me. I
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> But I'm just facing this way.
But
we're expected to make a decision with
next to no information.
We're elected to be fiscally responsible
and this is not
just throwing a number out there and
saying fix it if it needs it. And
I don't know. I I'm sorry. I'm sorry,
but I cannot support
just throwing a number out and I I need
information.
Deputy Mayor,
» thank you very much, Mayor McQueen.
There are a few other circumstances
involved in this. It is it's not just a
remediation. We already know that in
order to be allowed to open up the ice
plant, we have to replace the
ventilation system. That wasn't part of
the budget. was about a $50,000 cost.
So, if we're saying 250 to get it open,
we're down to 200 for remediation.
We know that there's um issues and
concerns with the full building. My
frustration, my concern is to councelor
Wickens, you said we're starting down
the rabbit hole. So, we spent 150 to get
a report. We're going to blindly spend
or or potentially spend 250 to get a
small portion of the building open and
ignore the rest.
sinking another 250,000.
Does that mean the answer is we spend
the extra 2 million to make sure it's
done? We know the ice surface itself has
one season left of of guaranteed.
We'll get it certified provided it it
turns on. And Mayor McQueen, you're
right. There is maintenance money in and
we've been limping that machinery along
for a long time and it is time to make
the decision on machinery.
I truly believe that
it is it is not fiscally responsible to
just put the 250.
We need to get information on the full
cost of remediation because you get to a
point of how much money gets burnt as
some cost to then make a different
decision or how much money gets burned
as some cost that then
drags more money into it because well
we've already sunk this much.
I do believe that this body should get a
realistic cost on a like forlike
replacement.
That is for two reasons. One, I don't
disagree that the hall and arena there
in Rockland, given the geography of Grey
Highlands, makes sense to have a
community space there.
What I believe is we're about to
potentially spend,
you know, you do the 250, then are we
keeping the hall? Are we going to tear
off the hall? The hall portion has the
bathrooms and the kitchen. The kitchen
just got put in. What are we doing with
the rest of the building? You're you're
spending 250,000 to get one season out
of a space. I'm not done finish talking.
>> The report, just for clarity, the
report, we don't know. You're you're
speculating. You don't know.
>> And on the rest of the building,
>> I'm speculating. You're speculating
$250,000 to get a portion of this
building open for one year rather than
being logical and saying, "What is the
full cost of the whole building? What is
it cost to replace like for like? And
I'm not saying building a brand new
shiny, you know, state-of-the-art
facility. I'm saying like for like we
have a building that the BCA report is
out there. It shows what this fully
space needs and requires over the next
few years. The 250,000 followed by
whatever else it's going to cost to
remediate the building is there's no
getting a grant for it. There's no
getting a loan for it. Nobody's gonna We
can't go to the bank and borrow money to
clean. That is what we're trying to do.
We will take that right out of a
reserve. The asset management reserve
sits just over $2 million of unallocated
money. It has taken us eight years to
get there. Eight years I've been on
council. We started with very very
little in the estimation reserve. We did
a big splash after the tilesman sale to
put it and to fill it up. But we have
been working to try to build that
reserve for a long time. 250 is a drop
in the bucket, I think, to what the
whole building will need to get back to
where we were October of 2024 when we
were able to turn it on, get going, and
everything was going.
It is not respectful to all the
taxpayers and even to the Rockland
taxpayers to to blindly sink money into
something without getting a wholesome
picture. Um, I can't I can't support the
250
for that reason. I think we get the
report in September. We get from there
we get more information in terms of what
is the realistic cost. We know an
approximate idea of what it will cost to
replace the ice equipment judging from
the two options that were presented. The
committee of the whole have great
information on what that could
potentially cost. We can get wholesome
information on the remediation
replacement of the Rocklin if the pad
needs to be replaced or not. Then we get
a replacement of a like forl like
reconstruction cost and we can compare
those two because a reconstruction of
building a brand sorry not a reconstru
building a brand new arena can be
debentured. we can debenture almost the
entire amount. Obviously, put in some of
our own money, look for grants, look for
operations to be creative about what
that space will be, green capacity wise,
community space-wise. There's so many
more options there. And then debenture
is a more practical 25-year investment
into the long term of the of the
community and the facility.
$250,000 possibly cuz you know if it
doesn't meet that we need more and it
doesn't go ahead for one year doesn't
seem logical.
The last point I'll make is I understand
the point the community has made that
90% of the income from that space comes
from that arena and that is absolutely
true but 90% of the cost to operate that
arena comes from that ice too and we all
know that the ice surfaces aren't making
money and they shouldn't but let's be
practical when we say that yes the
income comes from the ice surface and
there's more income coming in from you
know we get a lot more income and
revenues from Rockland Arena Flesherton
arena, Markdale Arena than we do from
like Maxwell Hall and Starford Hall, but
that ice is the big cost to operate to.
It's the hydro bill, it's the staffing
cost, it's the equipment, it's the
maintenance, it's a lot of other things.
The last point I'll make on this is to
councelor Wiccans. The 75% ice usage is
correct, but we don't operate our ice
surfaces
to a full capacity. We start ice time at
8 in the morning, not 6. We don't we end
the ice time early because our residents
are used to having a certain level of
capacity and availability. We can make
that change and make sure that the
arenas are open earlier in the day and
open to later so that the people can
still use it. We went through a season
with three ice services. We may need to
do another season with three eye
services to allow us the time to make
the proper decision and not make an
emotional one but make a realistic
responsible decision. and and I'm now
>> okay. Thank you.
We have invested in our other
facilities. In 2010, we there was a
million dollars spent on the Markdale
arena in 2010. We're spending money
right now on the Fletcher Arena.
We have uh Fibers Sham Arena is a new
arena. It was built in ' 84, but it came
because the current arena was condemned
and the community rallied and they built
a new arena 1984.
So those arenas are sort of established
and the history of Rockland is
established from the community itself as
well.
Um yes, it's a big it's a big decision
and it I would say hopefully it doesn't
take $250,000 to get it back open
because remember this is concrete
blocks, steel. It's not like drywall and
wood and like like the community center
itself. This is the arena. I would say
probably by mid December, January, the
mold will be all gone because it'll be
so damn cold. There'll be no mold left.
Anyway, it's it's at that point.
Somebody pointed out to me just last
week, and I know this is a community
decision. This is why we're here today,
and it's a tough one.
>> Point of order, Mayor McQueen.
Respectfully, if you're going to be very
much into your opinion, can you remove
yourself from this?
>> This This is what I said, a community
member said to me the other the other
day. This is not my opinion. Sure. This
is what an opinion that somebody else
said. And my job is also to make sure
council has all the information.
So, as we know, this is a community
decision. Person that pointed this out
to me, he said, "You know, it's
interesting. If you live in an urban
setting like Markdale,
you have police station down the road,
you have hospital down the road, you
have a fire department just down the
road, you have street lights, you have
stores, you live out in rural gray
highlands, what do you have?" This is
I'm I'm quoting what somebody else said
to me. You have they have the community
center. And I think that's where we are
today is what what does that community
have in that in that facility of the of
the proximity to where those people
live. And I think this is why probably
in our Curry Highlands whether we have
four arenas as councelor Wick said that
in Southgate they have one arena but
there's arenas all around and community
centers all around. So I think you know
there is a reason why we we are where we
are today. It's because of the community
is is is the interest of putting in the
deputy mayor.
>> I don't think there's anybody here who
has said shouldn't have an arena. You
just said in 1984
condemned a building and built a new
one.
>> 1979 it was condemned.
>> Sorry.
>> Yeah.
>> And it took him 5 years to build. What
we what I am saying is that that path
makes more sense than some cost into a
building that's falling apart with the
BCA report. Let's get the information on
building a new arena that will last us
into the next half century rather than
sinking $250,000 to get us one year. And
then from there there's there now you
have the sunk cost or the question mark
or the conversation.
Staff are asking for clear direction on
four arenas like let's get the logic and
let's do this stuff. This should this
conversation should have happened two
and a half years ago but it hasn't. We
are here today. You you just said
feverish went through this premise, you
know, they they rallied. I bet the
community of Rockland the 250 26,000
have been fundraised is a drop in the
bucket if we can rally to get a brand
new arena put there. So that is we need
that information before making a sunk
cost decision. Mr. Mayor, I'll point
something out. The information we need
is from Belelfford.
That's the information we needed for
today.
So, we're not guessing, but it's not
available.
So, the only other solution could be is
the what if. And I think that's what's
on the floor right now. And I'm not
going to get into this debate with you
anymore because right now there's a
motion on the floor about do we set
aside an upset limit of 250,000. It was
asked if the community was if the
community addit more. We need clarity on
that.
But right now, right now, the motion is
on the floor. moved in a second that we
have an upset limit to get the arena
back in back open again.
>> Question.
>> Is there any more discussion or any more
new information?
Well, to call the question then you need a vote on that right madam cler
not here. I thought we needed if you
called the question I thought you have
had to have twothirds majority to call
the question if somebody's calling a
question.
Pretty sure on that one. Well, that's
getting clarity. I'll go to councelor.
Uh, thank you, Mayor McQueen. Um,
I forgot what I was going to say.
Um,
>> was it about the community money or was
>> Oh, yes. Okay. Yeah. So, so thank you
because because I think the, you know,
um,
so, so I think there's kind of like two
points to this, right? like, you know,
is there a minor amount of investment
that would be
um that council could have an appetite
to provide with some very loose
guidance, you know, to um to to staff,
right? And then when you start to start
to add more, well, it's, you know, then
that number starts to shift, right? And
so, you know, I become very
uncomfortable, right, when when it start
to shift. So, so um so just kind of
providing some I guess just from my
perspective to me the question is you
know is there um you know one you know
is there a sunk cost that council is
comfortable with
you know if it would cover you know the
reopening of the arena with very loose
direction to staff and so so to me
that's the question I'll just leave it
at
>> so Madam clerk, can you repeat the
motion again just for because there was
something mentioned about the the fan
and that to me that council can still
make that decision because it's under
$50,000,
but that hasn't made that decision
because that was originally came back
because the air quality in the arena
needs to be improved. There needs to be
fans and all that stuff. I think council
can still deal with that when that
report comes back. As I understand the
motion by councelor Wicens and second by
yourself, councelor Duby, this is money
if needed to rehabilitate or whatever it
needs to do to get the building open
because of the mold issue
and we got I'm going to bring it back.
It's about the mold issue. It's not
about arenas. It's not and we all got
drifted away and and I'm bringing it
back right now. It's about the mold
issue that we've discovered and why the
building is closed. That's why we're
here today. Councelor Wickkins and
yourself has moved a motion an upset
limit of 250,000 if needed to be used
basically to make the arena usable for
this season. Is that sort of clear to
everybody? Is that clear enough from
staff?
Because if it's not, we need that motion
more as you can say. Councelor do make
clear.
>> Can I just get the motion read out and
I'll then I'll go to you councelor.
Madam cler
>> um thank you through you mayor McQueen.
I wanted to comment on the calling of
the question. You can put a motion to
call the question on the floor but not
when there's an amendment on the floor.
Only when the main motion is back on the
floor um just for clarity and it doesn't
require two/3s. It just requires a
second regular
>> requires that or used or used to require
23. That's changed.
>> So I did look that up just for clarity
for everybody. Um,
>> right now the amendment is
>> the amendment is that the main motion be
amended to add and that council direct
staff to prioritize the reopening of the
Euphrasia Memorial Rockland Community
Center Arena portion for this upcoming a
season and that council authorize an
upset limit of $250,000 excluding HST to
be funded from the asset management
reserve.
Okay. Um,
>> is everybody clear?
>> Do you need the clarity that it's for
mold rem? Yes.
I was going to say that based on the
discussion that's happened maybe that
should something that should be added
but that would be up to the mover and
seconder that that's what they want in
it for mold remediation.
>> That's that's fine with me.
>> Yep.
I'm not a very good mover
>> and and and councelor D. Okay that's so
just add that little so it's clear and I
understand that we need to be clear
councelor. [clears throat]
>> Thank you. On the subject of clarity
through you, Mayor McQueen, I mean,
councelor Dubick mentioned that the 250
goes ahead only if the ice surface is
able to be reopened. So, it's more than
just mold. It's it's can we operate the
arena? It would need to be, you know, we
would need to segregate that area,
including the entrance and washrooms,
get the ice surface going. Hopefully,
the plant runs. There is a $50,000 um
public health ventilation compliance
issue that would have to be dealt with.
It's
>> um and that can be dealt with council.
>> It could be, but I mean are we talking
250 plus to 50,000 or I mean I clearly
understood what councelor Dubic said
that $250,000
gets the ice surface open for a season.
It buys us one season because we've
still we're still going to have a bigger
issue to deal with once the bell for
report comes back. There is a report
attached to to today's agenda, you know,
that was discussed at the um committee
the whole that had some estimates on
there that the the BCA 5year, you know,
was a million a half dollars. The ice
floor replacement was $900,000.
>> I want to wind that back in because
right now the the motion on the floor is
about getting the arena back open
because of the mold situation, the
health and safety situation, right? So,
and if if there wasn't a mold situation
and the arena didn't open up or there
was more than a $50,000 expense, this
body can't deal with it.
This is to deal with an issue that has
arised and we got and we're getting a
report back from Belelfford with regards
to what's wrong, but we can't deal with
that report because it's not here. So,
this is what the money would be set
aside for. And it comes back and it says
you got to spend $10,000 doing this. You
got to do 5,000 doing this to get the
arena open. Did you finish? I cut you
off.
Getting the arena open is the go no-go
for the $250,000 is just what I want to
be clear on. that is the case. I could
probably support this position, but I I
can't support
it not being that clear.
>> Come back. Yeah, deputy mayor.
>> Much mayor McQueen for clarity. The the
motion is now saying for mold
remediation. Again, let's go back to the
50,000 for the ventilation. That was an
estimated cost, I think. I don't know. I
can't remember. Forgive me if the report
said it was exactly going to be $50,000.
If it's $54,000, it's over the budget of
Flame Duck. If the ice surface ice
equipment doesn't open up and it
requires new parts, what's the limit
there? Like, this is kind of the problem
to your 50,000 $250,000 to get the arena
open. There are a lot of other unknowns.
And this is why it is not as simple as
saying the the motion is 250,000 to get
the arena open. Does the arena include
the bathrooms or not? Is that a
disqualifier? Does the arena include the
upstairs fing section? Is that a
disqualifier? Does the arena include
coordinating off and blocking off the
kitchen so that it's not a part of it?
Does it like there's those are questions
to say is it specifically from the glass
wall to the door um big Zamboni doors
and and doors that are used for the fall
fair. Is it just that building? Is it
the is it the
>> Just hold on. Let me get clarity from Shaunette and what was she reported
cuz she said it is a possibility or no
she said they could isolate the arena
what that looks like
>> but if you have an arena you're going to
have washrooms
>> so and to that mayor McQueen my question
is because respectfully is staff are
wanting that clarity because when this
report comes back and council can't
debate what portions we're going to
spend on if if we're not clear and
saying you know are we going to be
sitting here in another very tricky
conversation is trying to
figure it out like
Yeah.
>> I Seanette, do you have do you have any
more clarity on what was said by
Belelfford with regards to that they
could get the arena open first? Can you
clarify that, please?
>> Uh, I would have to speak to them. They
just said that they could prioritize
that area. Again, I don't have the
reports to to let us know what that
requires. It could be 500,000. It could
be 600,000 for that area and maybe only
100,000 for the hall. I don't uh have
that information and I know that's
important, but I do want to make a a
point of um I do want to do say
something in my report today. It did say
that further mechanical um needs to be
done. So right now the existing
compliance report is really pretty much
null and void because they do see that
that's not just the issue. There's a
whole other issue that needs to be
looked at in order to keep that mold out
of there. And that does involve the
arena site as well too. And again we
don't have that that figure yet either.
So
>> MC thank you mayor McQueen. Um there's
been a couple of comments about, you
know, not having information. Um council
has a ton of information. The only
information they don't have is
surrounding the cost of mold
remediation. Um, you have 10-year
capital P plans, uh, BCA reports, um,
and and Director Krauss has done an
incredible job, and I commend her
because she has inherited, um, this
file, uh, coming in here, um, but she's
done an incredible job on providing
council information, information for the
longevity of this facility, not just the
mold remediation. So, the only
information that council doesn't have is
the cost of the mold remediation.
Everything else council has. They know
what it costs to replace the
refrigeration equipment. They know when
the roof needs replacing. All of that 10
years out has been provided to council.
So, um, you know, staff staff's done a
great job in getting council
information. Um, member McQueen, you
mentioned that we didn't bring reports
back to you. We all but said we all but
said
that the arena needs to close at this
the way it stands right now and and we
just didn't put that on the table. a
meeting here and there was I think we
went through that whole report, the
recreational master plan and there was
reports and I think deputy mayor moved
the motion to look at what it would look
like to repurpose two arenas and it
never has flatback.
>> I'm not even talking about that at this
point in time.
>> But that talks about the arenas and the
surfaces,
>> but I'm talking about the 10-year
capital plan and the BCA reports. Even
the community, we met with the community
members and shared that information, all
the financial statements, everything. So
all the reports council has, the only
information they don't have is what it's
going to cost to remediate. And and
director Krauss raised a good point.
What's the cause of the mold? And is
that included in part of this
remediation?
Because if it's the HVAC system,
then there's a bigger problem.
» Mr. Duby,
>> uh, thank you. So, um, you know, so, so
when we think about sort of the
remediation to be able to open the
doors, um, it it may be beyond just the
mold, right? I think there was, you
know, mechanical issues, etc. that that
are tied to this. And so, um, you know,
so as we think about the motion, like I I did want to put the motion on the
floor because I, you know, so I seconded
it because I think we need to have this
direct conversation. Um, but as it
stands now, like I I won't be supporting
it. Um, and I'll just I'll just leave it
at that. And it's not that, you know,
and again, I just do want to reiterate
this to the community. Um, we are here
wanting to invest in your facility.
That's not the question. The question is
how do we do it in a um in a disciplined
accountable respect respectful way so
that we're actually managing every
single tax dollar responsibly
um and and um even just putting out you
know sort of this you know bubble number
out there I feel uncomfortable
because we're not directing those
dollars and if we if we don't, you know,
put something absolutely specific in
emotion, [clears throat]
you know, you know, staff may just have
to interpret or whatever. And then, you
know, but and we don't have that
conversation. Um, you know, when we
think about 1 percentage on a local tax,
that's about $180,000.
Is that right? Right. So, you know, so
250, you know, is already, you know, and
we've already put 150 in for the report.
So we want to be able to do this in a
responsible manner. We are with you.
Have never heard anybody say we don't
want to support um you know Rocklin in
our in our arena moving it forward. That conversation has not happened. But
we do want to ensure that we're doing it
in a responsible manner because we are
responsible both to the Rockland
community and we are responsible to the
whole municipality as a whole. So every
200 you know you know the 11,000 you
know um citizens and the residents of
this community were we're responsible to
everybody and so we have to do it in in
a in a in in a very transparent
responsible manner. I'll just leave it
at that.
>> I see councelor Lohead has his hand up.
» Thank you.
>> We're still speaking to an amendment to
the main motion.
>> Correct. Yeah. And thank you Mayor
McQueen. And just once again, councelor
Dubick has said it very well. Um
$250,000 is an an upset limit. Um you
know, it it represents a considerable
amount of money. Um you know,
approaching uh over 1% of the levy and
um and it's this will be an expensive
facility to uh rebuild and and maintain
in the future. And if we want to commit
to that, which I think we all do, um
then we have precious little money with
which to do it. And so um you know, two
$250,000
even spent now um without that going
towards the long-term longevity of this
facility, um is probably not the best
money spent. Um, you know, if if I could
be if we could be guaranteed that that
$250,000 upset limit would go towards a
building and, you know, um, have a a
long-term lasting effect in terms of
that facility. Great. I don't think that would be a question. But we don't
know that. Um, it it could very well be
a a band-aid temporary one-year solution
uh to a problem. And um I am in
agreement um that is just not money well
spent. Um so for that reason I I can't
support uh this upset limit either.
Okay.
Any further amendments or any further
discussion on the you can make an
amendment to the amendment too. It
reduced the amount. If there's no other
I guess I'll call the vote. All in favor
of the amendment
opposed
that minutes lost.
Any further discussion or other
amendments with regards to the motion
the main motion to receive it for
information?
Council go ahead.
>> Sure. Thank you, Mayor McQueen. I will
say, you know, we we don't know, right?
We we don't have the full report here. I
appreciate as um CEO said we have a lot
of information but the the piece that
we're missing is the short-term uh
report that's going to come back from
Belffor and you know it may very well
come back somehow um that uh this is
going to cost 80,000 or or 90,000 or
something for this facility to be open
this year. Um if that's the case you
know as council Dubic said earlier what is that number that council has an
appetite for? And I think that we should
at least have a discussion about that.
Um there I think there may be a lower
upset limit above the $50,000 uh
legislation but below the $250,000 um
that we feel comfortable spending to get
this facility operational this year. Um
so I'd like to I don't know if I want to
make a motion, but I'd le at least like
to to have that out there so that we can
decide if we'd like to have a
discussion.
>> Are you suggesting a lower amount than
250 and something above 50? I suppose I
am I I will make the motion of I'll say
90,000 just for discussions purposes and
I'll see if we get a secondary and have
some conversation around that.
>> Yep. Your point is
>> whatever for clarity the motion that
just failed is the same motion.
>> It was amount.
>> It was an amount.
>> So we're saying the intent is different
because the intent is different. Yeah.
Fair. Okay. Just trying to get clear
making sure that it's should have been
mentioned
>> because the if it was a motion to say
that we add so much well do we even do
it would be different than adding amount
the amounts change. Councelor uh Wicens
you're seconding that
>> I am and my intent folks was to have
some money there after we got all the
reports and stuff back. And I mean, if
it was going to be a million dollars to
clean it up, we'd all say, "Oh, boy."
It was going to be $100,000 to say,
"Great, go ahead." But as we stand right
now,
that arena is going to be closed for the
season. It's gone.
So, I will second Joel's motion.
So, just for clarity on that, Council
Loya, do you want to repeat your motion
so Madam Clerk can catch it? Speak up
louder.
>> Uh, thank you, M Queen. all the way in
Ottawa. So, you got to speak up.
>> Yeah, if you can hear me all the way
back home. Um to to quickly to the
deputy mayor's point, I I agree this
could very well have um been an
amendment, but I'm you know, just before
we this we let this die, I'm having
second thoughts here. Um and so um same intent um different number um I
I'll I'll say 90,000 um and we'll see
how council feels about that.
Madame Clerk.
>> Um, thank you Mayor McQueen. I just want
to clarify that it's for reopening of
the arena portion the same as the
previous one and from the asset
management reserve and it's for mold
remediation.
>> Yes. Yes. Yes.
>> Is that correct, Councelor Lowhead?
>> Yes. Exact same as the other motion but
a different number of 90.
Yeah. Okay. Councelor Wickkins is
seconding. Discussion.
It's a different number we had a lot of
discussion on. Go ahead, councelor Duby.
>> Yeah. So, so just a quick point though,
um, you know,
where are where I start to where I feel
uncomfortable is, um, you know, again,
we're we're narrowing this this down to
mold rem remediation, but then there's
all these other elements like the
mechanics and the HVAC and so
>> so we can spend up to 50,000 as a
council named Duck
And so and so we could then
add so if if if the mechanics came back
or or or or if we needed to address the
mechanics then that would be a separate
item you can do 50,000 if you if council
wished. So I would say probably if it
comes back the report comes back from
Belelfford and says you're going to need
90 or less and they get it open then
you're going to have to look at the fan
and that exhaust issue because that was
an issue that's been identified through
the health and safety of that building
which is separate to the mold
remmeration
because we had that report in July
>> and and you've had it at your meetings
at Rockland and it's you need to get it
going before October before the arena.
But there's no use spending that money
if if they don't get the if they can't
get the arena open from the mold
remiration, right? Does that not make
sense?
Uh um so so I guess my other question is
then like you know are there other um
potential
needs to to open beyond mold and the
HVAC and then are we just peace like is
are we just continuing to peace meal on
top like it's
>> so I'll go I'll go to director Krauss
because I know there's a report that
came back in July and said it was
identified that there need to be an
improvement on air quality for the
exhaust. for the arena surface and you
had a price for that and it was fans and
you had you had a quote on that. So the
question is, is there other things
that's going to be I think it was
identified that the the person that
certifies the system can can certify it
again providing when they go to do it, will fire up. I'll leave that
director KS.
>> Uh that's correct, mayor. There was a a
report previously that stated that, but
that was before all the mold issue and
that came um in play. So again back to
the in the report I've wrote uh for
today uh they have Belffor has indicated
that there needs to be definitely a
mechanical the whole mechanical HVAC
system needs to be looked at. So it is
more just than what needs to be done in
the Z I'm going to call it the ZAM room
um to get rid of exhaust there. So I I
think we're maybe being preemptive by
putting that in when the whole system
needs to be done and it needs to be done
together. So the whole because
everything's peace meal as it is now and
they're trying to tell us that it all
needs to work together. So
>> but if if you're going into the winter
months in my mind you're not collecting
moisture
other than we have the dehumidifier for
the ice surface that's there today.
But overall, get through the season, get
to next spring, then you're that's going
to be the bigger picture. That money
needs to be spent for the whole system
in the sense of the whole HVAC system,
the whole building for sure. Does that
help counsel?
if I may. Yeah. Yeah. So, what I what
I'm struggling with is um again,
you know, providing
um staff with, you know, direction to
spend,
you know, 90,000
um and you know, for mold specifically,
but then say the HVAC is, you know,
200,000, right? So, so you know, but but
they will continue to staff will
continue to march against the 90,000
because we already gave them that
direction.
>> Yeah, that's where the 250 might have
caught that the probably won't.
>> But there's still like, you know,
another So, so again, like we may be
asking staff to actually execute against
something that at the end of the day um
doesn't fit into the bigger picture. It
doesn't support actually um our intent
of where we want to go. So, so just for
that reason, like I I can't support
this. Um, again, we we need to be able
to look at this holistically. Um, even
for the remediation piece, we can't be
peacemealing the remediation piece
because it it starts to fall apart and we don't we don't continue to look
at the bigger remediation as one
solution. So, for for that reason, I
just I can't support this. Thank you. At
>> the end of the day, it could be the
whole HS HVAC system just needs replaced
and that solves the whole problem.
That could be the whole problem, but we
can't get there because we don't know
that. We don't know that. So, we can't
get there. So, we're trying to we're
sort of we're like this in the dark. So,
but because of lame duck, that's all we
can do. The motion's on the floor for
$90,000.
Second by move by council, second by
councelor Rickkins. Any further
discussion on that?
Did you have a question?
>> I didn't mean to pry it.
>> There's more of a comment. And I mean
the only thing we know for sure if we
received the report for information and
nothing else we will not have ice in the
Iraq Arena for the coming ice season.
Um
in my opinion
$90,000
probably not not going to get it done
and uh it's a slim thread perhaps. But
um the caveat has to be I I think to
address councelor Dubick's concerns if
there was no mold problem we would have
done whatever it would have taken within
reason to get that ice plant up and
running for the ice season. We would
have done the HV uh system the uh if the
ice plant needed some um maintenance to
keep it running for a year while we
looked at the bigger picture.
So uh I am going to support the 90,000
but it's a slim hope that if we uh you
know we'll we'll have done what we can
since uh the first amendment was lost.
Thank you.
>> Okay. I've been asked to uh call call
the question. This is on amendment but
I'm going to call the question. I have
lots of discussion on this. So it's for
90,000. All in favor?
Opposed? That motion's carried. Uh go
back to the main motion as amended.
Any other discussion on that motion?
It's been moved and second. All in favor
of that motion?
Opposed?
Do that again. All in favor?
Opposed?
Motion is carried. All right. So, moving
on. That takes care of the three items
today for today's agenda. Seeing there's
no other business because it was a
called, it was a special meeting. I
understand now. I called it. I put the
items on there. So, there's no addition
to that. Thank you for that clarity,
Madam Clerk. I figured that one out. All
right. So, since there's no other uh
items, I need a motion to adjurnn. Move
by.
>> Oh, sorry. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.
That I didn't put on there. Yeah, I know
you did. Okay. Yeah. And and just Yeah.
Sorry, folks. This this clarifies this
puts it in bylaw of the decisions that
were made today. So, that's why the
confirming bylaw is there. So, I will
read it out. that bylaw 2026-083
being a bylaw to confirm the proceedings
of a special meeting of council on
August 20th, 2026 be read first, second,
and third time and finally passed and
the mayor and clerk be authorized to
sign and seal the same notwithstanding
any contrary provisions of council. Can
I have a move and a second for that
please? Councelor Owed, councelor
Wickens. Any discussion on that? Seeing
none, all in favor?
That's carried unanimously. Now we get
to the adjournment that resolved the
council adjourn to the call the chair. I
need a move and a second or please
councelor deputy mayor. Second by
councelor wicens. All in favor? That is
carried. That is at 253. Thanks everyone
for your patience.
Trying times.