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Okay. So, roll call. I see Michael

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>> here.

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>> Um, Steve here.

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>> Kevin

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>> here.

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>> Lauren, [clears throat]

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>> Jim. Um, so until maybe Hal gets here.

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Um, which one of you two was seated last

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time?

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>> Lauren was.

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>> Okay. Okay. Jim, would you be seated for

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now? [clears throat] And Fenty, I

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haven't forgotten you. We'll get to you

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soon shortly. Probably the next time.

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Okay. So, um, is there any public

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communications?

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Anybody from the public have anything to

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say?

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Online, I mean on Zoom.

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» It's online interested in speaking in

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public communication.

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» You think they can't hear me? Maybe I'm

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not loud enough.

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» They're b their booming voice. Thank

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you. Okay. Um, okay. So new business we

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have seven brew coffee shop.

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» Oh Josh is it be promoted?

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>> Yep.

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>> Yeah.

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» Uh good name. Thanks for having me here

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tonight. Uh for the record, my name is

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Will Sweeney Williams partner team

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London and always it's a pleasure to be

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here. Um tonight I'm coming back before

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you on behalf of ETB Gr LLC which as you

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may remember is a Connecticut LLC and

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it's a a holding company affiliate of

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the Seven Brew uh 7 Brew Coffee Found.

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Um, as you know, 7 Brew is expanding

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throughout southeastern Connecticut. Uh,

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and it has currently a purchase contract

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on the Senogo station at 731 Long Road

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in Gro.

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>> Last May, I came before you and received

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approval for a zoning text amendment to

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create a new classification of

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restaurant use within your zoning

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regulations. These would be restaurants

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that had a principal method of operation

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service utilizing a drive-through

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facility. Since you approved that

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amendment in May, uh my client and its

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design team led by um Stoneville

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Stonefield um has been working on the

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redevelopment plan for the Sonogo site.

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Uh and we've had several meetings um

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with your staff regarding the project. I

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have with me tonight Josh Klein with

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Stonefield. Uh he's going to be doing a

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little bit of the presentation tonight.

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Um and um I don't know if I have online,

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but my client may have representatives

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on line as well. Um, tonight we're here

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in an informal capacity uh for an

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informal discussion uh regarding uh

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based on recommendation by your staff to

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share with you several possible layouts

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for the new seven brew drive-thru coffee

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shop project and to try to get some

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feedback from you uh and to present to

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you some of these alternatives and just

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have an informal discussion. Uh, as you

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can probably imagine, restaurants with

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drive-through facilities really have

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limited layout options. And as in almost

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every case, automobiles generally have

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to take a circular route around a

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facility. Um, they have to enter a site,

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they have to get into a queue line, they

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have to place an order, they have to

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pick up that order, and then they have

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to exit the site. And that's no

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different with this site. It's no

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different with seven route uh uh coffee

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drop either. Um but there is on this

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site and I know it came up when we were

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talking in the initial uh meetings with

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the commission. Um there's a second

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access point on this site. Uh this site

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has a rear access point um to the auto

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parts store development right behind it.

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There is a cross connection between the

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two properties and um that complicates

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the circulation pattern to some extent.

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Um we after um our text amendment we

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actually at the request of staff

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investigated that cross connection and

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found out that there while it's been in

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existence for quite some time between

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the two properties there's actually no

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formal easement between the two

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properties allowing that it's just was

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built in both by both parties site plans

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to allow for that cross connection. Um

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and both have function but with no legal

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document between the two. um both my

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client and staff, you know, are unified

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that we want to try to preserve that

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second access into the site. Um we think

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it allows movement between adjacent

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properties without using Longville Road,

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which is something they do promote,

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particularly in the MTC district. Uh and

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it also offers customers of 7 the

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ability to get out to the traffic light

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that's in front of the auto park store.

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students a good reason to have that

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secondary access increases overall

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safety and certainly creates convenience

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for everyone. However, it also adds that

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additional access point to our

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drive-thru circulation that's got to be

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accommodated uh for traffic circulation

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and operations. We did have an initial

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plan which Josh was going to show you in

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a second that we showed to staff this

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more uh this summer which is very

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similar to what we showed this

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commission in the spring. uh and that

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had a a cur single curb cut off Longill

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Road and it preserved that cross

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connection to the auto parts store. Uh

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we think that design works, but the

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staff did voice some reasonable concerns

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about circulation through the site.

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People using that curb cut, that

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secondary access had to circumn the site

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to get into the queue. And there was a

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concern that there was addition a lot of

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additional traffic movement. So staff

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asked us to look at alternative layout

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designs. we could try to make the site

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function more efficiently obviously more

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safely if possible um and but keeping

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the secondary access point as an

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integral part of the design. So we put

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together a couple design alternatives we

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shared with staff and and after we did

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staff said it would be valuable they

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thought for us to bring our original

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plus our two alternative designs to the

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commission. Share them with you get some

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feedback from you before we select a

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sort of preferred alternative and before

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we make a formal submission. just get

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some feedback from the commission on

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your policy. So, at this time, I'm going

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to turn it over to Josh. Josh will uh

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share the screen and put up the the

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original design and go through both

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alternative designs. Sort of highlight

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the pros and cons of each. Uh again,

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from our perspective, all three designs

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work for our purposes. We think they can

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provide safe and efficient traffic flow,

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but we want to really have your input

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before we make a formal application. Uh

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and so really tonight, it's just some

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blended discussion. Shouldn't take a

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long time, but we really want to hear

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from the commission before we formally

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submit. So, with that, I'll introduce

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Scott Fle from Stonefield to uh present

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the premise. Josh,

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>> perfect. Uh hopefully, can everyone hear

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me? All right.

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>> Yep, we can hear you.

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>> Great. Well, nice to nice to see

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everyone. Josh Klein, Stonefield

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Engineering and Design, licensed traffic

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engineer in Connecticut. Uh site and

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traffic engineer in Connecticut, as well

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as um eight other eight other states.

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We're um we're excited to be back here.

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Um and I want to kind of walk through we

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have kind of four four plans tonight to

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kind of walk through. I did want to kind

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of just add a little bit to you know the

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importance of kind of maintaining this

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existing cross access easement. So, we did do some digging and and while

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there wasn't a a recorded document found

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kind of between the two ownership

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parties, the cross access improvement as

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well as the egress from Wendy's to the

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auto parts um site was part of the site

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plan approval that was in 2022 2023. So,

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it was done in order to kind of help

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alleviate um you know the potential for

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kind of backups for the gas station. My

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guess would be just based on some of the

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research that in working with DOT that

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was one of the requirements um or it was

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a suggestion of this board back in 2021

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when when the autoports went in to kind

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of help alleviate um traffic and it it's

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just good practice. We want to maintain

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crossax access easement. We want to kind

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of direct cars to use a signal

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especially when we're talking about uh

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left movements which that signal would

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allow. Um, so here I have up on the

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screen. This is the original concept

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plan. I believe it was shared. I was I

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was here virtually um during the text

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amended amendment, but this was kind of

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the plan that we

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>> can hate to interrupt. Is there any way

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to make that a full screen?

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>> There you go.

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>> See a little bit better. Thanks.

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>> Yeah, no problem. How's that?

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>> Much better.

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>> Perfect. I'll make sure to zoom in as we

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go through. So this was this was the

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plan um that we kind of went through and

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kind of helped guided us, you know, kind

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of in that initial text amendment phase.

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So again, you in in our conversations

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with Connecticut DOT, um you know, they

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really were looking, you know, at a kind

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of ingress egress driveway, uh left

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egress being allowed, uh lefts out being

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restricted and kind of maintaining that

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connection. Um, you know, we did hear a

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little bit of feedback kind of during

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that process and that really led us to

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kind of this plan number two. Um, so

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this was a a plan that was prepared as

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we as we look to kind of move through

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the process. So what we did with this

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plan was again, you know, we did make

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some adjustments to the driveway. This

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was really as we went into special

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permit or site plan design mode, you

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know, we had a real survey. uh we kind

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of brought in all the the zoning

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requirements and you know we we created

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that physical barrier uh to prevent

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those left movements out. We shifted the

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driveway over to kind of ensure that a

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car entering you know wasn't aligned

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with a car leaving. Um now we kind of

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get to this this next step. We obviously

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we heard some concerns with this plan.

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So we really went back to the drawing

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board to try to you know think how can

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we make this plan better and I think it

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was highlighted very well. I mean, we

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are somewhat limited, right? We have a drive-thru use that operates

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in a certain way. We have zoning

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criteria. We have cross access. We have

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proximity to a a signal. I mean, today

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there's two large driveways along the

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frontage. You know, we want to ensure

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DOT, you know, also is supportive. They

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want us to eliminate um and try to

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consolidate access and kind of not have

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this open configuration as the gas

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station does. So that kind of led us to

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um which I'm calling kind of plan number

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three um which looked to kind of

272
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maintain the pass through lane, maintain

273
00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:43,600
kind of the um configuration for the

274
00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,000
drive-thru, but create a little bit more

275
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,560
separation in the ingress and egress on

276
00:10:48,560 --> 00:10:51,519
Long Hill Road. Um, and one of the kind

277
00:10:51,519 --> 00:10:54,399
of the keys here is uh we wanted to

278
00:10:54,399 --> 00:10:58,800
create stop control for vehicles either

279
00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:00,880
circulating the site to exit to the

280
00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,279
signal or a vehicle that might come in

281
00:11:03,279 --> 00:11:05,279
from the signal, circulate through the

282
00:11:05,279 --> 00:11:07,760
pass through lane uh and then look to

283
00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,360
enter the drive-thru. Um, so this kind

284
00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,279
of creating this separation here kind of

285
00:11:13,279 --> 00:11:15,680
allows for that stop control. So you you

286
00:11:15,680 --> 00:11:18,240
kind of have a point where a vehicle um

287
00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:20,160
is really able to as they circulate

288
00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:22,640
around they would they can stop here and

289
00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,279
they have a clear visibility of any cars

290
00:11:25,279 --> 00:11:27,040
coming into the site. So we thought that

291
00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:29,600
was really um a major enhancement of

292
00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:33,200
this plan and kind of you know now we

293
00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:37,279
kind of then move to plan plan number

294
00:11:37,279 --> 00:11:39,440
four. So, you know, we received some

295
00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:41,920
additional feedback uh regarding the

296
00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:43,920
circulation of the site and and kind of

297
00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,160
having a a customer who wants to make

298
00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,040
the left in on Long Hill Road um have to

299
00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:51,760
kind of fully, you know, or circulate

300
00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,480
part of the site to get into um the

301
00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:56,079
drive-thru

302
00:11:56,079 --> 00:11:57,760
um lane. So, we look to kind of take

303
00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:00,800
plan number three and kind of improve it

304
00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,360
one step further. So, we still have that

305
00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:05,519
separated ingress egress on Long Hill

306
00:12:05,519 --> 00:12:08,320
Road. We still have that stop control

307
00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,320
here. So any vehicle that again is

308
00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:12,880
exiting the drive-thru and need and

309
00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,040
wants to make a left on Long Hill Road,

310
00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:16,959
they have that stop control. Again, any

311
00:12:16,959 --> 00:12:19,279
vehicle that wants to kind of continue

312
00:12:19,279 --> 00:12:21,360
eastbound or make the right can kind of

313
00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,079
exit uh right out of the driveway. But

314
00:12:24,079 --> 00:12:26,320
one of the big advantages of this of

315
00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:28,160
this layout is it allows someone that

316
00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:30,560
was coming westbound on Long Hill Road,

317
00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:33,120
they make the left in to the light.

318
00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:34,720
They're able to enter the site and

319
00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,519
they're able to kind of get right into

320
00:12:37,519 --> 00:12:40,160
um the queuing lane. Now, it does

321
00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:43,279
eliminate kind of that dedicated bypass

322
00:12:43,279 --> 00:12:45,680
lane. You know, one of the nice things

323
00:12:45,680 --> 00:12:48,000
with SevenBrew operationally because it

324
00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,000
doesn't have a a single menu board or

325
00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,160
now you're seeing a lot of um people go

326
00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:53,600
with double menu boards, but it doesn't

327
00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:55,920
have a stationary menu board. It has

328
00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:57,680
kind of what we call the texture. So

329
00:12:57,680 --> 00:12:59,680
people with an iPad that are taking the

330
00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:02,560
orders, it allows it allows them to kind

331
00:13:02,560 --> 00:13:04,959
of move cars as needed. So you don't

332
00:13:04,959 --> 00:13:07,360
have to be at a certain point to take an

333
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:11,200
order. You know, sometimes a texture can walk all the way out to here and

334
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,279
take an order. It also allows them to

335
00:13:13,279 --> 00:13:15,120
deliver. Again, there's not a pickup

336
00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,279
window. So, operationally, kind of the

337
00:13:17,279 --> 00:13:19,519
three lanes work really well because

338
00:13:19,519 --> 00:13:21,680
they can kind of deliver the drinks to

339
00:13:21,680 --> 00:13:23,680
the individual lanes and they can they

340
00:13:23,680 --> 00:13:26,399
can move vehicles around if needed.

341
00:13:26,399 --> 00:13:28,240
Again, a lot of times, you know, that

342
00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,320
that's not what they like to do. Uh, but

343
00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:32,240
it gives them that flexibility versus a

344
00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,639
kind of a traditional um drive-thru

345
00:13:34,639 --> 00:13:37,440
model. So, I know I went through them,

346
00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:40,560
you know, relatively quickly. Um, I'm

347
00:13:40,560 --> 00:13:42,240
happy to kind of answer any questions.

348
00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,560
I'm happy to go into any more detail. I

349
00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:46,160
can even set up if you give me a minute

350
00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,000
a side by side if you want me to put two

351
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:49,920
of the layouts next to each other, you

352
00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:51,600
know, just for conversation sake as

353
00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:56,069
well.

354
00:13:56,079 --> 00:13:58,880
» Okay. Um,

355
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:00,959
how would you put them side by side? I

356
00:14:00,959 --> 00:14:03,519
think it's an interesting idea because I

357
00:14:03,519 --> 00:14:05,760
guess I don't understand all the numbers

358
00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:07,760
and which is which because I only have

359
00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:09,600
two images on my right package.

360
00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:11,680
>> That's that's that's my question. So you

361
00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:13,600
went through four planned but you only

362
00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:15,120
we only have two diagrams.

363
00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:15,519
>> Yeah.

364
00:14:15,519 --> 00:14:16,160
>> Okay.

365
00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:17,680
>> And I the packaging.

366
00:14:17,680 --> 00:14:17,920
>> Yeah.

367
00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,079
With no numbers on them.

368
00:14:20,079 --> 00:14:21,760
>> So the first one he showed was what we

369
00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:22,959
showed you last spring when we were

370
00:14:22,959 --> 00:14:24,639
working on the text amendment. And the

371
00:14:24,639 --> 00:14:26,399
second one he showed you is what we met

372
00:14:26,399 --> 00:14:28,639
with the the pound with this summer and

373
00:14:28,639 --> 00:14:30,399
they asked us to try to come up with

374
00:14:30,399 --> 00:14:32,720
alternatives. So the two drawings that

375
00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,440
you have in your package are alternative

376
00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:38,880
A and alternative B. So it's three and

377
00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:40,480
four is what you have. But we can go

378
00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:42,399
through all four of them just to make it

379
00:14:42,399 --> 00:14:43,600
a little bit more clear for you.

380
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:47,040
Apologize if that was unclear to you in

381
00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,600
your package. So in essence, I'm just

382
00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:51,519
come back. I'm just going to piggy back

383
00:14:51,519 --> 00:14:53,839
and sue. So we have the two decisions

384
00:14:53,839 --> 00:14:56,240
that you're looking us to to discuss are

385
00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:57,440
three and four only though

386
00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:00,240
>> or or if you think two works fine. Yeah.

387
00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:02,079
>> We're we're we're comfortable with two

388
00:15:02,079 --> 00:15:04,880
as well, but we were asked by staff to

389
00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,279
develop alternatives to number two and

390
00:15:07,279 --> 00:15:10,079
so we provided three and four. So these

391
00:15:10,079 --> 00:15:12,399
are these are three and four right next

392
00:15:12,399 --> 00:15:13,120
to each other.

393
00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,920
>> Yeah. So again, how is how does this

394
00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:17,519
differ from what you saw on the spring

395
00:15:17,519 --> 00:15:19,760
and what we showed to Deb in June? And

396
00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:21,440
so the big thing here is that we've

397
00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:23,839
separated those the the access and

398
00:15:23,839 --> 00:15:25,440
entrance on Longville Road. We've

399
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:27,199
created that separation so we have that

400
00:15:27,199 --> 00:15:28,480
stop bar. Now

401
00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:30,560
>> I think the concern that Deb raised and

402
00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:35,040
I think it was a fair concern is this crossesment is really valuable for

403
00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:37,360
us for and it's also valuable for this

404
00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:38,959
the community to have that. That's a

405
00:15:38,959 --> 00:15:40,959
good thing. But when you have people

406
00:15:40,959 --> 00:15:43,040
that come in at the light and come into

407
00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,279
this site, they can't get into the queue

408
00:15:45,279 --> 00:15:49,519
right away. They've got to circumn the site to get into the queue, right?

409
00:15:49,519 --> 00:15:52,000
>> And so Deb said, could you look at ways

410
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,880
to make that movement safer around

411
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:56,320
because you're having driving all the

412
00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,320
way around to get into the queue. And so

413
00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,720
what our first option was was to

414
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:02,800
separate the the two access points along

415
00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,360
Phil Road to have that demarcation of a

416
00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:07,519
stop. So you don't have it has people

417
00:16:07,519 --> 00:16:09,279
have to stop at that line and make sure

418
00:16:09,279 --> 00:16:12,160
that they can flow into this queue. This

419
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,120
is a more extreme version four, but it

420
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,440
really fixes one of the problems. If you

421
00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:18,959
come in at the light, you can get into

422
00:16:18,959 --> 00:16:20,639
the queue right away. You don't have to

423
00:16:20,639 --> 00:16:23,120
circumn site. I think that's really

424
00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,680
positive. It also keeps all the all the

425
00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,399
parking off to one side and segregated

426
00:16:28,399 --> 00:16:29,839
from it. So I think there's some real

427
00:16:29,839 --> 00:16:33,199
positivity here. It doesn't prevent all

428
00:16:33,199 --> 00:16:35,600
circulation from the site. If you come

429
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,839
in off of Long Hill Road and you get

430
00:16:37,839 --> 00:16:39,600
your coffee, but you want to go out

431
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:41,279
because you're heading west, you're

432
00:16:41,279 --> 00:16:42,880
still going to go this way, back through

433
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:44,480
the parking lot and out. So, there'll

434
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,000
still be some circulation, but design

435
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,160
four here

436
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,079
removes a lot of the unnecessary

437
00:16:52,079 --> 00:16:54,720
circulation from site. We don't think

438
00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,040
this is necessarily unsafe. We were just

439
00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,839
trying to address the concerns of staff

440
00:16:59,839 --> 00:17:02,399
is could you make it more efficient? The

441
00:17:02,399 --> 00:17:05,120
downside of four is you don't have this

442
00:17:05,120 --> 00:17:07,199
pass through lane anymore. You've got

443
00:17:07,199 --> 00:17:09,360
three Q- lanes on that side of the

444
00:17:09,360 --> 00:17:11,039
building and so there isn't a pass

445
00:17:11,039 --> 00:17:13,199
through lane. Um so I think that's a

446
00:17:13,199 --> 00:17:15,566
negative to that. Um but again the way

447
00:17:15,566 --> 00:17:17,120
[clears throat] Seven Brew works and the

448
00:17:17,120 --> 00:17:19,839
way this nonbeater board ICU facility

449
00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:22,640
works there's ability to move cars as as

450
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:26,880
Josh testified to we think or works

451
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:31,360
because of the nature of the use. H but

452
00:17:31,360 --> 00:17:33,520
going back to the the one on the left.

453
00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:34,960
>> Yeah.

454
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,919
>> The only reason why that doesn't work as

455
00:17:37,919 --> 00:17:39,679
you know coming from the auto parts

456
00:17:39,679 --> 00:17:41,760
store is because you're showing cars

457
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,640
there optimistically.

458
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:48,080
But I mean it could be that the outer

459
00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:49,760
ring is empty.

460
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:51,760
>> Oh it could be empty almost all the

461
00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:52,559
time. The out

462
00:17:52,559 --> 00:17:55,760
>> No, not that the the car lane. The outer

463
00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:56,400
car lane.

464
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:57,440
>> The second lane.

465
00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:58,640
>> That ring. Yeah.

466
00:17:58,640 --> 00:17:59,200
>> Yeah.

467
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:00,799
>> So, you're optimistically showing it

468
00:18:00,799 --> 00:18:02,799
full of cars, which is fine.

469
00:18:02,799 --> 00:18:03,840
>> Worst case scenario.

470
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:05,360
>> Yeah. But

471
00:18:05,360 --> 00:18:07,039
>> I mean, is that going to happen? I mean,

472
00:18:07,039 --> 00:18:08,960
we had a discussion about whether

473
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,400
stacking of how many cars you need

474
00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:14,000
>> the the the requirements of the

475
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:15,600
regulation is eight. I believe we're

476
00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:17,840
showing 15 because we have a traffic

477
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:21,520
study based on actual observations that

478
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,480
our most busiest time on that Monday

479
00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,840
morning at that peak hour we may have 15

480
00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:29,440
cars in queue and so we are

481
00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:30,960
accommodating our worst [clears throat]

482
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,440
Q situation on this site

483
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:35,919
>> and so the the only time when the cross

484
00:18:35,919 --> 00:18:39,520
route doesn't work is during that time

485
00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:41,120
>> during this time right here.

486
00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:42,320
>> Yeah,

487
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:43,919
>> you can still drop. There's still a pass

488
00:18:43,919 --> 00:18:45,039
through lane here. You can still do

489
00:18:45,039 --> 00:18:45,200
that.

490
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:46,880
>> Oh yeah, you can still do that. But I

491
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:50,559
mean, you know, concerns of staff noted,

492
00:18:50,559 --> 00:18:53,520
but because the cars are shown,

493
00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:53,919
>> Yeah.

494
00:18:53,919 --> 00:18:56,160
>> they can't get into that second lane,

495
00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,480
>> but but but if it is in that situation

496
00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:00,799
and and you get someone coming in from

497
00:19:00,799 --> 00:19:01,840
the connector,

498
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:02,240
>> Yeah.

499
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,200
>> there is possibly another conflict as

500
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:09,840
they try to circumn this this um site

501
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:11,840
with with people exiting the drive-thru.

502
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:12,880
>> Yeah. Yeah. So,

503
00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,919
>> and that's why and that's why we address

504
00:19:15,919 --> 00:19:17,600
>> the top where they have to cross two

505
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:19,039
lanes of traffic. Yeah, know that's what

506
00:19:19,039 --> 00:19:20,240
I was seeing.

507
00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:20,640
>> So, you

508
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:21,679
>> Yeah, but yeah, you're going to be

509
00:19:21,679 --> 00:19:23,440
stopping in front of Yeah.

510
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:24,880
>> But but there may be a conflict that

511
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:26,559
you're trying to scoop around the films

512
00:19:26,559 --> 00:19:28,799
who are in line to come back in line at

513
00:19:28,799 --> 00:19:29,039
all.

514
00:19:29,039 --> 00:19:31,760
>> But Stephen, you're right. In a non peak

515
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,640
hour situation, you could literally come

516
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:36,960
in here and this there's nobody in the

517
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:38,480
queue or there's certainly nobody in the

518
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:42,480
second thing. And you remember we're staffed with readers, you know,

519
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:44,240
people with iPads, they could say just

520
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:45,600
come in and come into the queue right

521
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,880
now. But we are unfortunately and you

522
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:50,880
have to do this son. We plan for the

523
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:52,640
worst possible scenario.

524
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:53,600
>> I can help,

525
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,000
>> you know, and that's that deep Monday

526
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:57,840
morning, you know, traffic or peak

527
00:19:57,840 --> 00:19:59,120
Saturday morning traffic where people

528
00:19:59,120 --> 00:20:00,559
are trying to get their orders to get to

529
00:20:00,559 --> 00:20:00,880
work.

530
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:02,080
>> Yeah. So that has to occur

531
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,080
simultaneously with somebody coming

532
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:05,840
through the cross to have a problem.

533
00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:07,679
Right. I mean there there obviously

534
00:20:07,679 --> 00:20:10,160
there are issues with that which is why

535
00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:11,200
these are here.

536
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,360
>> Yeah. And are there barriers between

537
00:20:13,360 --> 00:20:15,280
one, two or one, two and three?

538
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:16,480
>> No, they're not physical barriers.

539
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:17,360
>> Not physical barriers.

540
00:20:17,360 --> 00:20:18,559
>> No, we have a stripe

541
00:20:18,559 --> 00:20:19,520
>> painted lines.

542
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:21,679
>> Um we have anticipated lines as shown on

543
00:20:21,679 --> 00:20:23,600
this plan right here. This sort of like

544
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:25,200
aisle line right here. No, there's no

545
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:27,679
physical that we got we have employees

546
00:20:27,679 --> 00:20:30,080
walking, taking orders, delivering

547
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,480
drinks, getting people out.

548
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:33,919
>> That's how it works. You go to

549
00:20:33,919 --> 00:20:35,679
Chick-fil-A that day. I don't know if in

550
00:20:35,679 --> 00:20:37,520
Chicklet Chick a lot of Chick-fil-A use

551
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:38,159
this model.

552
00:20:38,159 --> 00:20:40,640
>> Yeah, they do in Virginia. Um can I ask

553
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:42,720
a question to Deb? Do you know how many

554
00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,039
um cars stack can stack up in Dunkin

555
00:20:45,039 --> 00:20:46,159
Donuts?

556
00:20:46,159 --> 00:20:48,720
>> I do not off the top of my head.

557
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:50,480
>> Just right right past that. Right.

558
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:51,919
>> Because I come down there sometimes and

559
00:20:51,919 --> 00:20:53,840
they're stacked up on Route 12.

560
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:55,840
>> They come up

561
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:57,120
as one window though, right?

562
00:20:57,120 --> 00:20:58,000
>> Wow. That is true.

563
00:20:58,000 --> 00:20:59,440
>> That's true. It's a different business

564
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:00,720
model. I get that. Right.

565
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:02,400
>> And just one lane to come through.

566
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:04,164
>> Yeah. And people are going going inside

567
00:21:04,164 --> 00:21:05,280
[clears throat] too, but they do line up

568
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:06,559
in

569
00:21:06,559 --> 00:21:08,320
>> we've got some pretty good data in terms

570
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,600
of what we expect. Um, we also I was

571
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:13,120
reading through their preliminary draft

572
00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:14,960
to say we also have sort of a grand

573
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,200
opening plan. So whenever one of these

574
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:18,559
opens, everybody in the world wants to

575
00:21:18,559 --> 00:21:20,159
try it for the first time. So the first

576
00:21:20,159 --> 00:21:22,000
two weeks of operation, you get higher

577
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:23,440
than normal. So they have extra

578
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,120
staffing, extra precautions for those

579
00:21:25,120 --> 00:21:26,640
signs. It's sort of like remember when

580
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,880
Crispy Cream Donut opened up at Moan,

581
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:30,400
there were lines up the doors. Well,

582
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:31,919
then a couple weeks that goes away. you

583
00:21:31,919 --> 00:21:34,720
get back to a normal uh flow. And so we

584
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:36,480
know what those are today. There's so

585
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:38,000
many of these seven food coffee shops

586
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:39,600
around the country. They've got really

587
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,520
good data on it. So again, we're

588
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,640
designing to be able to accommodate what

589
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,039
we expect to be our busiest time with

590
00:21:47,039 --> 00:21:47,840
this design.

591
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,320
>> So could you share what the what the

592
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:52,640
estimated peak

593
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,440
time is in terms of an hourly traffic?

594
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,840
How many cars can be going through in

595
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,400
the f in the busiest hour of the day?

596
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,080
Yeah, Josh, do you have that number? I

597
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,000
know I have it in my my book if I can

598
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,480
figure it out.

599
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,080
>> Yeah, I'm just pulling. I mean, just

600
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,960
from a like a projected trip generation

601
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,840
standpoint, um

602
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,960
you know, the in the peak hour, weekday

603
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,720
morning, um you know, we see about you

604
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,520
know, 40 trips being generated, you

605
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:24,880
know, over the course of that hour.

606
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:30,320
That's per it uh for the for the use.

607
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,240
And what's the average from the order to

608
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,720
the delivery? How long does that take?

609
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,520
>> It's about um

610
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,760
I just want to pull we got some new some

611
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:41,600
new data. So the peak just is between

612
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:45,600
about 8 and 9 a.m. Um and then Saturday

613
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:50,080
is the other peak at 12 to 1. Um the

614
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,240
order time is is quick. It's about the

615
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:53,840
average weight's 3 to three and a half

616
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,600
minutes. Um you know for

617
00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:58,480
>> Yeah.

618
00:22:58,480 --> 00:22:59,600
moving them through.

619
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:01,280
>> And how many employees would be walking

620
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,039
the site? You said employees will move

621
00:23:03,039 --> 00:23:06,480
between cars. How many at peak hours?

622
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,200
>> So in a in a you know in a two-lane

623
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,280
format there'd be at least two textters.

624
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,600
In a threelane format they would likely

625
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,280
use three on average. Now kind of to um

626
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,200
in terms from an operational some stands

627
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:23,760
do have more texturers. So if you know the initial opening they may

628
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,000
have two or three or four you know

629
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:27,840
texturers to kind of help facilitate

630
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:29,919
orders and move and then they have

631
00:23:29,919 --> 00:23:33,919
separate um staffing that's at the kind

632
00:23:33,919 --> 00:23:36,799
of um pickup area to deliver the drinks.

633
00:23:36,799 --> 00:23:38,320
So they kind of have runners and people

634
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,640
that deliver the the drinks as well

635
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:42,400
>> coming from inside the shop out.

636
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,039
>> Correct. Yeah. That's what's nice. I

637
00:23:45,039 --> 00:23:50,640
mean, you know, with, you know, with the plan, you know, whether it be the

638
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,520
two-lane or the threelane is um, you

639
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,159
know, the delivery or the runner, the

640
00:23:56,159 --> 00:23:58,159
person that hands the drink, you know,

641
00:23:58,159 --> 00:24:00,640
they can, uh, you know, tell someone to

642
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,039
wait or tell someone to go or kind of

643
00:24:03,039 --> 00:24:04,799
communicate with the other runners. They

644
00:24:04,799 --> 00:24:06,799
all kind of are out there together. They

645
00:24:06,799 --> 00:24:09,440
have like a designated standing area to

646
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,360
kind of, you know, help ensure people

647
00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:13,360
are moving through safely.

648
00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:14,960
>> One more question. How does this work in

649
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,919
inclement weather, rain or snow? How do

650
00:24:17,919 --> 00:24:20,720
the employees move in between cars and

651
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,159
that sort of thing?

652
00:24:22,159 --> 00:24:23,760
>> No, it's a great question. We have a we

653
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:25,919
have a blurb ready to go. So, you know,

654
00:24:25,919 --> 00:24:28,480
7 Brew, you know, started in Arkansas.

655
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:29,760
They're in Milwaukee. They're in

656
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:31,279
Wisconsin. They're in Wyoming. They're

657
00:24:31,279 --> 00:24:34,559
in upstate New York. So, cold areas. Um

658
00:24:34,559 --> 00:24:36,080
they all their employees have heated

659
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,440
vests um and they have hats and gloves

660
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,320
and then they rotate them um more

661
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,159
frequently kind of moving texturers

662
00:24:44,159 --> 00:24:46,799
inside and and people inside outside. Uh

663
00:24:46,799 --> 00:24:49,600
they're also our canopy heater. So the

664
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,000
um canopy that overhangs um the

665
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,520
drive-thru. You probably have seen it at

666
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:54,640
if you have been to a Chick-fil-A.

667
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:56,159
uses heaters as well for

668
00:24:56,159 --> 00:25:00,400
their staff. So that helps too.

669
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:01,039
Mhm.

670
00:25:01,039 --> 00:25:03,520
>> So is my understanding of this is four

671
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:05,120
here on the right hand side.

672
00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:05,440
>> Yeah.

673
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,159
>> Yep. Uh that at peak hour we lose the

674
00:25:08,159 --> 00:25:10,000
pass through lane ability.

675
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:11,679
>> Yeah. So that would be the the

676
00:25:11,679 --> 00:25:13,919
disadvantage. I think I I like four

677
00:25:13,919 --> 00:25:17,039
except that this this lane three is no

678
00:25:17,039 --> 00:25:17,520
longer

679
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:18,880
>> Yeah. Because the ability to pass

680
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:19,200
through.

681
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:20,960
>> That's what frightens me a little just a

682
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:22,159
little bit with that because you've got

683
00:25:22,159 --> 00:25:23,919
eight cars in a line there.

684
00:25:23,919 --> 00:25:26,880
>> Someone gets into that line. You got 24

685
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,679
minutes. anything now in that I mean

686
00:25:29,679 --> 00:25:31,520
essentially they're at the end of eight

687
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,840
cars which are moving at three minutes.

688
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,360
>> In my opinion the number three because

689
00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:39,200
we separated and we created this stop

690
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,240
control. I'm not overly concerned about

691
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,400
somebody who comes in at the light and

692
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,720
goes around to get into that Q lane. I'm

693
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:48,480
not overly concerned with that movement.

694
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,880
is removed from this

695
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,039
design because you now you can pull

696
00:25:53,039 --> 00:25:54,159
right into the queue.

697
00:25:54,159 --> 00:25:56,640
>> But again, that only occurs and you're

698
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:58,559
And number one is really well taken

699
00:25:58,559 --> 00:26:00,640
because most of the day you're going to

700
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,559
be able to pull on number three, you'll

701
00:26:02,559 --> 00:26:03,840
be able to pull in and get right into

702
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:04,320
the queue.

703
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:04,559
>> Yeah.

704
00:26:04,559 --> 00:26:07,120
But at at peak potentially, you're

705
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:09,039
like the Taco Bell that's over there,

706
00:26:09,039 --> 00:26:10,480
there's no pass through at that Taco

707
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,720
Bell. And if they decide to take 40

708
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:14,559
minutes, please don't ask me how I know

709
00:26:14,559 --> 00:26:16,320
to get through your order. You're stuck

710
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:17,760
there for 40 minutes

711
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:19,760
>> because you don't have a jeep that the

712
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:21,440
curve. Well, the thing is is that you

713
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,400
get into the line and now you're, you

714
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:25,760
know, you've only got a half an hour and

715
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:27,039
you didn't realize it was going to take

716
00:26:27,039 --> 00:26:28,080
as long as it does.

717
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:28,400
>> Yeah.

718
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:29,919
>> The only difference I would say is here

719
00:26:29,919 --> 00:26:31,520
is our lines are staff.

720
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:33,840
>> No, I get it. And you have, you have the

721
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,919
ability to make people

722
00:26:35,919 --> 00:26:37,360
>> you can see sort of the pluses and

723
00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:39,679
minuses of the plan. And that's why I

724
00:26:39,679 --> 00:26:41,520
think Deb and Dave said,

725
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:42,880
>> why don't you tell the commission at

726
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,039
least get their input before you decide

727
00:26:45,039 --> 00:26:47,039
on either one. Bottom line is we can go

728
00:26:47,039 --> 00:26:49,039
with either one. Either one we can make

729
00:26:49,039 --> 00:26:50,720
work for us. It's just a question of

730
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:52,799
which one would you rather have. I I

731
00:26:52,799 --> 00:26:58,400
personally think this is fine unless you want that ability to get into queue

732
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,440
immediately during peak time. Then four

733
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:03,440
will do that for you but it will cut off

734
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:04,320
the pass through.

735
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,080
>> I think the pass through lane is going

736
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:10,080
to exist uh 85% of the time anyway with

737
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:10,799
four.

738
00:27:10,799 --> 00:27:11,279
>> Yes.

739
00:27:11,279 --> 00:27:14,640
>> Yeah. And I

740
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,880
is it allowed to be a pass through.

741
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:18,720
>> If there's nobody in there, right? If

742
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,559
there's nobody in there, yeah, you could

743
00:27:20,559 --> 00:27:21,679
pass right through that lane.

744
00:27:21,679 --> 00:27:24,480
>> And how when you're operating some is

745
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,120
this are any of these models used

746
00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:28,480
anywhere else

747
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,120
>> where you have three lanes or two lanes.

748
00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:32,640
>> Josh would have to answer whether you

749
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,600
have three lane setups anywhere else.

750
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:37,919
>> Yeah, there I believe there is a three

751
00:27:37,919 --> 00:27:42,000
stand in Arkansas. Um, so this is a

752
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,919
three-lane stand. There's not one in in

753
00:27:43,919 --> 00:27:45,840
Connecticut. Now, I will say a lot of,

754
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:47,679
you know, some of the Seven Brews, you

755
00:27:47,679 --> 00:27:52,640
know, do operate in three lanes. So, if they have a pass through lane, um,

756
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,159
sometimes they can, you know, they would

757
00:27:54,159 --> 00:27:55,760
use the pass through lane for ordering

758
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,480
if they needed to. U, and two things I

759
00:27:58,480 --> 00:27:59,919
wanted to kind of clarify that might

760
00:27:59,919 --> 00:28:02,159
help. So, the the 3 to three and a half

761
00:28:02,159 --> 00:28:04,240
minutes is the average total weight. So,

762
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,559
it's the time someone enters the queue

763
00:28:06,559 --> 00:28:10,640
to leaves the queue. So because of the way that they're ordering, it's not

764
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,240
order, wait three and a half minutes,

765
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:13,600
next order, three and a half minutes,

766
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,679
next order. You know, they're getting in

767
00:28:15,679 --> 00:28:17,360
line that total time. That might make us

768
00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:19,760
feel a little backward.

769
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:21,200
>> Yeah, it might make us feel better about

770
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,080
>> Yeah. No, no, that's fine. I don't that

771
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:25,440
left

772
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,000
>> that uh number three. I I really don't

773
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:29,600
like cars

774
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,679
>> crossing left across two lanes of

775
00:28:31,679 --> 00:28:32,799
traffic and stopping there.

776
00:28:32,799 --> 00:28:34,809
>> So, you like number four better?

777
00:28:34,809 --> 00:28:35,200
[clears throat]

778
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:36,960
>> Yeah, I think so.

779
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:38,960
I have a question. So let's if we can

780
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:40,799
go to four, right? [clears throat] So I

781
00:28:40,799 --> 00:28:42,799
come in through the auto parts store,

782
00:28:42,799 --> 00:28:44,559
right? I think I know the algorithm. So

783
00:28:44,559 --> 00:28:45,760
I'm not going to get in line one or two.

784
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,399
I want line three, right? And are you

785
00:28:48,399 --> 00:28:50,240
blocking off line three for me to get

786
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,320
into that at some point when we say

787
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,159
there's a potential for pass through? So

788
00:28:54,159 --> 00:28:56,880
can I jump into at any point when seven

789
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,000
brew is open on line three?

790
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,240
>> Yeah, I I don't Is there any Would there

791
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:03,440
be any reason why they wouldn't be able

792
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:04,940
to do that?

793
00:29:04,940 --> 00:29:05,120
>> [clears throat]

794
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,120
>> No, you would someone, you know, someone

795
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,360
could enter lane two and three from Long

796
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:14,000
Hill Road or the cross access, which is a benefit because if let's say

797
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,159
lane one, you know, did start to fill

798
00:29:16,159 --> 00:29:17,919
up, you know, we don't want, you know,

799
00:29:17,919 --> 00:29:19,279
we don't want people kind of waiting for

800
00:29:19,279 --> 00:29:21,039
lane one. What's nice is that someone

801
00:29:21,039 --> 00:29:23,039
coming from long hill can just jump

802
00:29:23,039 --> 00:29:25,200
right down and hit lane two or three.

803
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,360
>> Okay. But but weren't we saying that the

804
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:34,080
pass through is there for many hours? possible if somebody

805
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:35,760
>> I'm thinking that the situation you know

806
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:37,039
somebody realizes they don't have their

807
00:29:37,039 --> 00:29:38,720
wallet with them or somebody is sitting

808
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:40,159
there and go oh my goodness I can't

809
00:29:40,159 --> 00:29:42,159
believe how how late it got I think that

810
00:29:42,159 --> 00:29:44,159
was the the initial discussion that even

811
00:29:44,159 --> 00:29:46,080
when it's full we can accommodate that

812
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:47,039
might not be able to accommodate

813
00:29:47,039 --> 00:29:48,640
immediately but we can move people

814
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,720
around to get people out if need be

815
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:52,320
because it's a stack line. Yeah.

816
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,559
>> But yeah most of the time we're not

817
00:29:54,559 --> 00:29:55,919
going to have 15 people in the queue.

818
00:29:55,919 --> 00:29:57,039
We're going to have three or four cars

819
00:29:57,039 --> 00:29:59,120
in the queue. you probably will all have

820
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,520
in lane number one, you know, to have

821
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,200
those cars. They'll all be sitting here

822
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:04,880
and waiting for their their their

823
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:06,960
service. It's really just a few times

824
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,360
that they number three will be utilized.

825
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,159
In fact, in this plan here, we got

826
00:30:12,159 --> 00:30:15,120
three, six, seven of the spaces are in

827
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,789
lane number three.

828
00:30:18,799 --> 00:30:20,320
So, I'm just trying to be explicit here.

829
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,240
One more thing. So, I I come in now from

830
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,159
Long Hill Road, not the auto parts

831
00:30:24,159 --> 00:30:26,480
store. I can bypass one and go to two or

832
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,880
three, right? You could absolutely

833
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:30,320
>> it's kind that was kind of personal.

834
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:31,120
>> Yeah.

835
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:32,799
>> No, but I think that was Josh's point is

836
00:30:32,799 --> 00:30:34,960
there there's flexibility there. We also

837
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,039
have the main staff so people can we can

838
00:30:37,039 --> 00:30:38,640
literally have staff references say come

839
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,559
right here. We can serve you right here.

840
00:30:40,559 --> 00:30:41,520
>> Yeah.

841
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:42,640
>> I'm just trying to figure out the

842
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,039
algorithms. Yeah.

843
00:30:45,039 --> 00:30:47,440
>> Then someone walks back to the store,

844
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,520
gets what they need, then walks back to

845
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:50,080
the

846
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:51,600
>> on the iPad. They take the order and

847
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,120
then there's a runner in the store that

848
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,760
brings the drink out. So it's all

849
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:57,039
communicated that way. Two different

850
00:30:57,039 --> 00:30:57,679
people.

851
00:30:57,679 --> 00:30:59,520
>> Different people. Yeah. So, we got

852
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:01,600
basically one person per lane taking

853
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:03,760
orders and we have people inside making

854
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:05,200
orders and bringing them out to the car

855
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:06,159
and delivering.

856
00:31:06,159 --> 00:31:07,679
>> It's the same setup as McDonald's. You

857
00:31:07,679 --> 00:31:08,799
got someone on the window. You got

858
00:31:08,799 --> 00:31:10,080
someone making food and you got a runner

859
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,666
going between the two.

860
00:31:12,666 --> 00:31:13,120
[laughter]

861
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:14,000
>> Do you have another question?

862
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:15,360
>> McDonald's been around for a hundred

863
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,279
years.

864
00:31:17,279 --> 00:31:18,960
>> Before you just have another

865
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,279
>> Where is the money collected? Josh,

866
00:31:21,279 --> 00:31:23,760
where's payment collected?

867
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:25,679
>> Things Everything's digital. You pay on

868
00:31:25,679 --> 00:31:27,360
the iPad.

869
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,520
>> So when you take the order, you pay

870
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,039
right there on the iPad. And then when

871
00:31:31,039 --> 00:31:33,360
your drink's ready, you grab it and go.

872
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:34,799
>> So as soon as you give your order,

873
00:31:34,799 --> 00:31:36,159
you've already paid.

874
00:31:36,159 --> 00:31:36,480
>> Yeah.

875
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,720
>> You give your order, you pay, grab your

876
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,919
drink, you're you're out the door.

877
00:31:41,919 --> 00:31:43,440
>> I got cash.

878
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:48,470
>> So you you can pay cash. Sorry.

879
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:49,600
» And say I thought that was like an

880
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:51,679
offset.

881
00:31:51,679 --> 00:31:55,039
>> Um yes. So my question uh going back to

882
00:31:55,039 --> 00:31:58,240
when I think the maybe it was even the

883
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,559
text amendment but whenever you came

884
00:32:00,559 --> 00:32:03,200
first I had brought up the the point

885
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,760
that conceptually a future desired state

886
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,159
is that this is a more pedestrian

887
00:32:08,159 --> 00:32:10,640
>> kind of friendly area and that we would

888
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,720
be bringing buildings closer up to where

889
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:14,080
pedestrians are walking. We'd have the

890
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,720
ability for them to walk in and not be

891
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,600
so car dependent. And so my question I

892
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,679
guess is really

893
00:32:21,679 --> 00:32:24,480
what do I feel like this is just uh

894
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:26,080
furthering the car dependent uses of

895
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:27,760
what we already have there as opposed to

896
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:29,600
furthering the future end state that we

897
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:31,600
want of being more pedestrian centered

898
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:32,480
and less car dependent.

899
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,159
>> They actually have to have pedestrian

900
00:32:34,159 --> 00:32:36,559
element to this. That was an addition.

901
00:32:36,559 --> 00:32:38,320
So yes and that's an issue that we're

902
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,399
still working through. But if you see on

903
00:32:40,399 --> 00:32:41,840
this plan and this is not like you see

904
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:43,760
in seven Bruce is we've now added

905
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:45,279
additional seating out front. We have

906
00:32:45,279 --> 00:32:47,679
pedestrian and walkway crossing with

907
00:32:47,679 --> 00:32:49,919
sidewalk. We're talking about how to

908
00:32:49,919 --> 00:32:51,600
make the building more pedestrian

909
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:53,440
friendly and inviting. And we're going

910
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:55,360
to have ability for people just to

911
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:57,120
literally walk into the site and place

912
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:58,720
their orders here. Y

913
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:00,799
>> in this area here, a kiosk area where

914
00:33:00,799 --> 00:33:02,000
they can get those orders and get them

915
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,559
served right there. So we we we it is

916
00:33:04,559 --> 00:33:06,320
absolutely an automobile driven site

917
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,399
because it is a facility, but we can't

918
00:33:08,399 --> 00:33:10,880
neglect that issue with the MTC. And and

919
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,600
so I guess maybe this is just um I I

920
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:14,960
really don't know much about traffic

921
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,760
engineering. What would be the concern

922
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,799
or the issue with pushing those two uh

923
00:33:20,799 --> 00:33:23,360
entrances or curb cuts apart further,

924
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:24,640
bringing it right up to the curb and

925
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:26,799
having more of a horseshoe shape? Aside

926
00:33:26,799 --> 00:33:28,159
from the fact that now people can't

927
00:33:28,159 --> 00:33:31,039
completely circumn the building because

928
00:33:31,039 --> 00:33:32,000
that's that's kind of my problem with

929
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:33,360
this design is that no matter what you

930
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:34,880
do, you've got a weird little building

931
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,240
in an aisle separating you from that.

932
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,559
There's a reason why one of the things

933
00:33:40,559 --> 00:33:42,720
Deb asked us to look at was, well, if

934
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,720
this isn't actually an easement, can you

935
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,399
move this up like here?

936
00:33:46,399 --> 00:33:46,960
>> Great.

937
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:48,559
>> Well, the problem is is whenever you

938
00:33:48,559 --> 00:33:50,159
move a curb cut close to the

939
00:33:50,159 --> 00:33:52,000
intersection of a light, there becomes

940
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,960
traffic issues and conflicts. So, this

941
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:56,960
can't move up otherwise it creates

942
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,279
issues with the queue in this line. So,

943
00:33:59,279 --> 00:34:01,279
this is actually as far as close to the

944
00:34:01,279 --> 00:34:02,960
light as we can basically get it. I

945
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:04,240
think Josh is gonna answer the same

946
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,559
thing. why we can't take this and number

947
00:34:06,559 --> 00:34:08,960
four take the western in and move it

948
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,040
right down here and make it a horseshoe.

949
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:12,720
It's the distance to the traffic light.

950
00:34:12,720 --> 00:34:15,520
But I'll let Josh answer that.

951
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,119
>> Yeah. No, I think that's I'm just kind

952
00:34:17,119 --> 00:34:18,320
of highlighting you can kind of see

953
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,399
where that existing signal is. We we

954
00:34:20,399 --> 00:34:22,320
really want to, you know, we want to

955
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,520
push that ingress as far away as we can.

956
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:26,960
You know, today that having this wide

957
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,359
open driveway kind of inside of the

958
00:34:29,359 --> 00:34:31,760
signal creates a dangerous condition for

959
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,079
the gas station. Um, so this will be an

960
00:34:34,079 --> 00:34:36,159
improvement. So that's really the where

961
00:34:36,159 --> 00:34:37,919
the placement of this comes is is kind

962
00:34:37,919 --> 00:34:40,000
of being able to move it as close to the

963
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,159
signal as we can while protecting the

964
00:34:42,159 --> 00:34:43,919
equipment and kind of still helping

965
00:34:43,919 --> 00:34:47,520
facilitate that that ingress.

966
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,399
>> How will people know that that's even an

967
00:34:50,399 --> 00:34:52,159
option to get in that way? Is there

968
00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:54,159
signage back there or something that

969
00:34:54,159 --> 00:34:55,679
>> Oh, through the auto parts store.

970
00:34:55,679 --> 00:34:57,119
>> Yeah, I mean

971
00:34:57,119 --> 00:34:59,200
>> there there isn't signage there, but I

972
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:00,640
think a lot of these things people will

973
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:02,574
learn as they use them. I assume

974
00:35:02,574 --> 00:35:03,920
[clears throat] that most people who are

975
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:05,680
unfamiliar will be using our long hill

976
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,079
road access when they realize that that

977
00:35:08,079 --> 00:35:09,920
easement exists where that where that

978
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,000
cross connection exists and particularly

979
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:13,520
because they want a light to get out

980
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:14,640
because they want to get the left. They

981
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:16,320
don't want to be forced to take away.

982
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,599
They'll use it just by frequency of use.

983
00:35:19,599 --> 00:35:21,520
They'll get get familiar with it. And I

984
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,040
think that's how it's supposed to be.

985
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,200
>> Is the easement going to be are we going

986
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,359
to get an easement or are you guys going

987
00:35:27,359 --> 00:35:29,680
to provide an easement on your hand?

988
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:30,960
>> Third party easement with a

989
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,240
nonaffiliated party. My client is has no

990
00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:35,520
problem with that. You can actually your

991
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,640
regulations um allow you to require

992
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:40,800
cross easements of the applicant. So we

993
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,200
could offer a processment to the audit

994
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,520
book par. What we you don't have the

995
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:47,040
authority to do neither do we is to

996
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,040
force the auto store to give us

997
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,440
>> No, we don't. But we would I I would

998
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,640
think that we would want that from your

999
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:56,640
applicant already.

1000
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:58,400
>> And then just like you're here now

1001
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,040
standing before us when they come to us

1002
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:02,160
someday perhaps

1003
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:03,920
>> we used to do that when I was a planner

1004
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,079
in Norwich. We used to had a book of all

1005
00:36:06,079 --> 00:36:08,160
the cross seasons we attached that we'd

1006
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:09,839
ever gotten. And so that you knew when

1007
00:36:09,839 --> 00:36:11,680
somebody came in to like do a facade

1008
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,079
change or do new landscaping their be

1009
00:36:14,079 --> 00:36:15,040
like finally you're not going to do

1010
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:16,880
that. We want this crossment because we

1011
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:18,400
have the other half of it on the other

1012
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:18,720
side.

1013
00:36:18,720 --> 00:36:21,175
>> No, we're government. We're patient.

1014
00:36:21,175 --> 00:36:21,760
[laughter]

1015
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:23,920
>> It actually it's actually a really good

1016
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:25,280
thing to have those cross seedments

1017
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,040
between properties because now you have

1018
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:28,480
people that can move between the

1019
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:30,640
properties without putting back on road.

1020
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:34,079
That's that's great design.

1021
00:36:34,079 --> 00:36:35,440
And again, one of the reasons we want to

1022
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:36,960
preserve this curve cut. One of the

1023
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:38,720
easiest things for us to do is to close

1024
00:36:38,720 --> 00:36:40,640
that curve cut because we don't have to

1025
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:42,160
worry about how you get in. You get in

1026
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,240
one way, you get out one way. But that

1027
00:36:44,240 --> 00:36:46,000
doesn't that cuts off access to the

1028
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,069
light and neither.

1029
00:36:50,079 --> 00:36:52,240
» So, how do we how do we make the best

1030
00:36:52,240 --> 00:36:54,400
and most efficient design for the layout

1031
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,720
while preserving that cross connection?

1032
00:36:56,720 --> 00:36:58,880
That's really the the design challenge

1033
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:00,640
that we've had. Well, I guess I have a

1034
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:02,160
question. So, either one of these would

1035
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,060
be acceptable to staff.

1036
00:37:05,060 --> 00:37:05,599
[clears throat]

1037
00:37:05,599 --> 00:37:07,119
>> I mean, I think as we said, they both

1038
00:37:07,119 --> 00:37:09,680
have some pros and

1039
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:10,880
>> cons. Exactly.

1040
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:12,160
>> Well, then to me, this is like a

1041
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:13,920
business decision. It's like

1042
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:14,320
>> Yep.

1043
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,560
>> I can I like number four for a lot of

1044
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,400
reasons, but I could see weaknesses,

1045
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,240
too. But at this point, if we're gonna

1046
00:37:20,240 --> 00:37:21,599
allow both of them,

1047
00:37:21,599 --> 00:37:21,920
>> right,

1048
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:23,440
>> then why don't we put the ball in your

1049
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,040
court because you I mean, you folks know

1050
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:26,640
a lot more about your business than we

1051
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:27,599
do.

1052
00:37:27,599 --> 00:37:29,359
>> We do. But we also, you guys have been

1053
00:37:29,359 --> 00:37:31,760
really really supportive of this project

1054
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,079
and we just wanted to be able to have a

1055
00:37:34,079 --> 00:37:36,079
dialogue with you, have your feedback.

1056
00:37:36,079 --> 00:37:39,119
>> So if our feedback um is we don't care

1057
00:37:39,119 --> 00:37:40,400
that much, right?

1058
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,839
>> Well, if we care

1059
00:37:43,839 --> 00:37:45,359
reasonable, right?

1060
00:37:45,359 --> 00:37:48,160
>> We're reasonable on either one is fine.

1061
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,079
I have to say personally, I like four

1062
00:37:50,079 --> 00:37:52,160
better. I I personally like four better.

1063
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,280
for better as a zoning person and as

1064
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,440
potential customer. I like four better

1065
00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,119
because hopefully no influencers tell

1066
00:37:59,119 --> 00:38:01,520
you about um lane three and that way I

1067
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,720
can hop into it myself, right? Um the

1068
00:38:04,720 --> 00:38:06,240
other thing too is it is my special

1069
00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:08,560
permit for that too. So in special

1070
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,560
permit you have greater discretion to

1071
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,480
condition approvals. So we could work

1072
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:14,640
into our operational plans issues

1073
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:16,560
regarding lane three. So if lane three

1074
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,880
is not needed for the queue, we can we

1075
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:20,640
can designate that as pass through at

1076
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:22,640
that time. we can work that into our

1077
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:23,200
proposal.

1078
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:24,560
>> Yeah, that's what if you could do that.

1079
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:26,560
And I also like the idea of the three

1080
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,280
lanes. Seems like you're able to push

1081
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,599
the cars closer to the exit and there's

1082
00:38:31,599 --> 00:38:33,119
more room I

1083
00:38:33,119 --> 00:38:35,359
>> for backing up and everything else. And

1084
00:38:35,359 --> 00:38:38,160
I really don't like that with four. How

1085
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,079
I don't see where there's going to be

1086
00:38:40,079 --> 00:38:45,359
much going into that uh stop

1087
00:38:45,359 --> 00:38:46,800
bar that's there or whatever.

1088
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,200
>> Only if you pick up your order. The only

1089
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:50,320
people that are going to do that, the

1090
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,000
people who pick up their order, but they

1091
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,079
want to leave through the light

1092
00:38:54,079 --> 00:38:55,359
>> and go left.

1093
00:38:55,359 --> 00:38:57,680
>> So they circle around,

1094
00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:59,119
>> they come back and they come through

1095
00:38:59,119 --> 00:39:00,720
here and then they go out to like they

1096
00:39:00,720 --> 00:39:03,599
want to go west. What I like about 42 U

1097
00:39:03,599 --> 00:39:05,920
Michael is you your parking is

1098
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,400
segregated somewhat where here the

1099
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,320
parking is sort of the back behind the

1100
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,400
dumpster. I like I think this setup is

1101
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:13,839
safer in my opinion.

1102
00:39:13,839 --> 00:39:16,000
>> That's what I I would defer. I would say

1103
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:17,040
that if

1104
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,200
>> you know I would say they go with four.

1105
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:20,079
>> Yep.

1106
00:39:20,079 --> 00:39:22,640
>> But throwing in my devil's advocate.

1107
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:23,280
>> Yeah.

1108
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,920
>> Four for those times. Did you say it

1109
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,480
occurs every Monday morning?

1110
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:29,200
>> Sure.

1111
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:31,920
>> Between 8 and 9, Tuesday too.

1112
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:32,320
>> Y

1113
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:34,320
>> Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and

1114
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:35,200
Saturday.

1115
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,480
>> So during all those times, three chucker

1116
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,280
block lanes and no one can get out if

1117
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,680
they want to. and and that is the

1118
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,240
downside of for my only response would

1119
00:39:46,240 --> 00:39:49,599
be is these are not unmanned unmanaged

1120
00:39:49,599 --> 00:39:52,000
lanes. We have in that situation we'll

1121
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:53,359
have at least three people out in the

1122
00:39:53,359 --> 00:39:54,960
field to help anybody who needs to get

1123
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,040
out.

1124
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:58,560
>> It's not perfect,

1125
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,240
>> but I think it's I think it may be more

1126
00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:02,160
efficient than three. You can work with

1127
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:02,720
either one.

1128
00:40:02,720 --> 00:40:04,640
>> Not it's not horrible, you know, it's

1129
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:09,119
not a you know, Pound GameStop. But

1130
00:40:09,119 --> 00:40:11,040
>> I have one other question. So with the

1131
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:12,800
seven or eight parking spots, are those

1132
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,119
staff parking spots? So you never move

1133
00:40:15,119 --> 00:40:16,640
like a McDonald's say, "Hey, listen. Go

1134
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:18,079
over to that spot and wait for your

1135
00:40:18,079 --> 00:40:19,680
coffee or something like that."

1136
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:20,800
>> Does that ever happen?

1137
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:21,520
>> No. No.

1138
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:23,280
>> No. We don't do that. That's not how it

1139
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:29,030
works.

1140
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:30,800
» Yeah.

1141
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:32,160
>> Fenty has a comment.

1142
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:33,040
>> Oh, yes.

1143
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:34,720
>> Thank you. Just I just have a question

1144
00:40:34,720 --> 00:40:36,320
just like about the stuff earlier just

1145
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:37,760
like yes that's um actually seven

1146
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:39,760
parking for the stuff but I'm just

1147
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:41,040
thinking about how many stuff you're

1148
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:42,720
going to have like when it's the busiest

1149
00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:44,880
time when like three people have to

1150
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,119
deliver outside and then how many inside

1151
00:40:47,119 --> 00:40:49,680
I mean I was thinking um the overflow of

1152
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:51,839
the employees going to park where are

1153
00:40:51,839 --> 00:40:53,920
they going to be?

1154
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:55,680
Yeah. So they, you know, on average they

1155
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:58,560
have about six to eight staff members. U

1156
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:02,079
not all staff take um their own vehicle.

1157
00:41:02,079 --> 00:41:05,440
Um they have kind of a wide mix of um

1158
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,599
uses. So on sites where they have, you

1159
00:41:07,599 --> 00:41:08,960
know, limited parking and you know,

1160
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,040
let's say during the the opening phase

1161
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,280
that they, you know, they need to bring

1162
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:14,960
additional staff, you know, they either

1163
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,440
work with other local businesses or they

1164
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,359
ensure employees can take ride share

1165
00:41:19,359 --> 00:41:21,040
options or things like that from their

1166
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,599
home to the site. um you know knowing

1167
00:41:23,599 --> 00:41:25,599
that it's again those seven parking

1168
00:41:25,599 --> 00:41:28,160
spaces are only for employees

1169
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:29,599
>> and another thing is I was just thinking

1170
00:41:29,599 --> 00:41:31,040
about you know when you go to the bank

1171
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:32,560
and then they have like you know three

1172
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:34,880
four five lanes depending which bank um

1173
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,040
you know you go uh but one of the one I

1174
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:40,240
usually go ter in um Noritz I think they

1175
00:41:40,240 --> 00:41:42,720
had five so you can have the lights kind

1176
00:41:42,720 --> 00:41:44,560
of like you know turn on like you know

1177
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,599
um you know green where you can you know

1178
00:41:47,599 --> 00:41:49,280
go in there and if it's red there's no

1179
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,839
service I mean are you guys going to be

1180
00:41:51,839 --> 00:41:54,640
able Do you use that? I mean,

1181
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:55,599
>> when it's not busy,

1182
00:41:55,599 --> 00:41:57,040
>> I don't think we have any structures

1183
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:00,000
that we get lights on. I mean, it's all

1184
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,480
open. But the big thing is we have

1185
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,280
people actually out on the lanes to be

1186
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,240
basically direct traffic. So unlike the

1187
00:42:08,240 --> 00:42:10,160
bank where there is nobody outside, you

1188
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:11,920
have everybody is the teller behind the

1189
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,960
window. We have actual employees out in

1190
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:17,200
the drive-through lanes taking orders,

1191
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,440
directing traffic, addressing concerns,

1192
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:21,839
somebody who needs to leave. We got that

1193
00:42:21,839 --> 00:42:24,160
staffed here.

1194
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:25,599
>> Got it. Thank you.

1195
00:42:25,599 --> 00:42:28,560
>> Thank you. Nice to meet you.

1196
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:30,640
>> Anybody else?

1197
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:32,880
>> Just just a quick back of the envelope

1198
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:34,960
calculation. I think Josh said there

1199
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,359
they were estimating a max about 40 an

1200
00:42:37,359 --> 00:42:39,040
hour. If it takes three and a half

1201
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:42,079
minutes to get a coffee, that's about 11

1202
00:42:42,079 --> 00:42:46,240
cars at any point in time max. So

1203
00:42:46,240 --> 00:42:47,440
>> 140 minutes. Yeah.

1204
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,720
>> Total minutes. Yeah. Right.

1205
00:42:50,720 --> 00:42:53,680
So, you know, this shows 15. So, it's

1206
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:55,680
going to be less than that even at max

1207
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:56,400
time,

1208
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,109
>> right?

1209
00:42:58,109 --> 00:42:58,640
[clears throat]

1210
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:00,960
>> That's spread out if everything the

1211
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:02,960
entire hour, right? But we got some good

1212
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:03,359
built.

1213
00:43:03,359 --> 00:43:04,960
>> Yeah. I look I did a variation. I said

1214
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:05,920
there could be

1215
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:06,640
>> Yep.

1216
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:08,400
>> Absolutely.

1217
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:09,920
>> Statistically, it looks good, right,

1218
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:11,599
Jim?

1219
00:43:11,599 --> 00:43:13,280
>> So, what else do you want us to do at

1220
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:13,680
this point?

1221
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:15,440
>> Nothing. Nothing else. Want to have a

1222
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:17,680
conversation. I think that the majority

1223
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,960
of the board likes um number four

1224
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:22,960
>> um and that we can we'll also talk

1225
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:24,640
operationally about how we can deal with

1226
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:26,480
lane three as pass through at times when

1227
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,240
we don't need it. So we'll talk

1228
00:43:28,240 --> 00:43:29,680
internally about that and see if we can

1229
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:30,960
accommodate that for you as well.

1230
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:32,319
>> Yeah, that seems like something that you

1231
00:43:32,319 --> 00:43:34,319
could almost do with you know

1232
00:43:34,319 --> 00:43:35,280
>> and we do have some

1233
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,839
>> describing it as a you know even if the

1234
00:43:37,839 --> 00:43:40,319
staff who are working out there know to

1235
00:43:40,319 --> 00:43:42,079
keep everybody to the left. Well,

1236
00:43:42,079 --> 00:43:43,359
definitely we're going to we do have

1237
00:43:43,359 --> 00:43:46,240
some we're working on um we we have a

1238
00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:48,079
prototype architecture which we've

1239
00:43:48,079 --> 00:43:50,240
already left and we're doing more

1240
00:43:50,240 --> 00:43:51,839
customized architecture for this

1241
00:43:51,839 --> 00:43:53,599
location. We got some more work to do.

1242
00:43:53,599 --> 00:43:54,960
We also have some work to do with the

1243
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:57,920
landscaping plan. Um the projects we're

1244
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:01,280
working with and on that you know

1245
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:02,480
they've been very helpful and very

1246
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:03,599
supportive.

1247
00:44:03,599 --> 00:44:05,280
>> Where I was going to say one question.

1248
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:06,480
Where are the heaters that you actually

1249
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:08,160
have that you mentioned during the cold

1250
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:11,200
weather? Are they shown on there? Mhm.

1251
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:12,960
>> Are they over the stop signs?

1252
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:14,960
>> Yeah, we don't we don't show them, but

1253
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:16,560
there is this is a

1254
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:18,319
>> kind of a a canopy here.

1255
00:44:18,319 --> 00:44:18,640
>> Okay.

1256
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:20,480
>> So, they're located kind of positioned

1257
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:22,400
under under here for staff.

1258
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:24,480
>> Okay, got it. Thank you.

1259
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,839
>> Those hand warmers you get at Walmart.

1260
00:44:27,839 --> 00:44:29,520
>> Bunch of pieces.

1261
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:30,960
>> Infrared things.

1262
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:35,359
>> So, a can it be like a carport? Like a

1263
00:44:35,359 --> 00:44:37,359
more like an awning. What's it What's

1264
00:44:37,359 --> 00:44:38,640
that actually going to look like?

1265
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:42,000
>> Hard structure. hard like

1266
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,400
>> correct like a physical a physical

1267
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,400
canopy that extends over the

1268
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,880
drive-through lanes. I was just grabbing

1269
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,520
again the architecture is being

1270
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:54,480
um worked on. I was seeing if I had a

1271
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:56,800
>> Is it like is it like canvas though or

1272
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:57,040
like

1273
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:58,720
>> No, it's like solid.

1274
00:44:58,720 --> 00:45:00,560
>> No, solid structure similar to the idea

1275
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:02,480
that you see at a you know a bank or

1276
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:04,480
another where Chick-fil-A has the

1277
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,440
pre-fabricated kind of metal canopy.

1278
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:09,599
It's a similar That's your structure for

1279
00:45:09,599 --> 00:45:11,440
the lights that Fenty was talking about.

1280
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:14,640
>> Yeah. That would be at the end before

1281
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:16,000
rather than the beginning where you

1282
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:19,440
would be able to see. But yeah,

1283
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:20,880
>> does the fire marshall look at this?

1284
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:21,200
>> Oh, yeah.

1285
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:22,000
Definitely.

1286
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:23,839
>> And because it looks and especially like

1287
00:45:23,839 --> 00:45:25,280
when you when there's a canopy, right?

1288
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,040
It's got to be high.

1289
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:29,680
>> And if that thing is What happens if

1290
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:32,720
something goes wrong and there's 30 cars

1291
00:45:32,720 --> 00:45:33,760
in this thing?

1292
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:34,880
>> Well, those are the things we have to

1293
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:35,760
work with the firearm.

1294
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:37,760
>> Yeah. Okay. Absolutely. No, I trust

1295
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:38,240
that. That's

1296
00:45:38,240 --> 00:45:39,200
>> But the other thing, too, is you don't

1297
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,440
want to get you don't want to get a

1298
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:43,680
truck too close to a building. So,

1299
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,400
you're probably not fighting a fire in

1300
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:47,920
the site. You're probably fighting it on

1301
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:50,960
streets or

1302
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:52,800
just stops anyway.

1303
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:55,359
>> And like if they do end up getting a

1304
00:45:55,359 --> 00:45:56,960
quite a pile up and where it's starting

1305
00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:58,319
to spill into 12, people are just going

1306
00:45:58,319 --> 00:46:01,910
to bypass the business.

1307
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:03,680
» That's probably

1308
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:07,119
>> it's Yeah. What's happeniently?

1309
00:46:07,119 --> 00:46:08,640
We aren't going to be able to compete.

1310
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:10,880
Nobody's going to stop there.

1311
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,040
>> And this isn't their first rodeo, so

1312
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:15,599
this week.

1313
00:46:15,599 --> 00:46:17,520
>> Okay. Great for the time. Thank you very

1314
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:18,480
much. I really appreciate it. Look

1315
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,160
forward to seeing you again real soon.

1316
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:20,720
Thank you.

1317
00:46:20,720 --> 00:46:23,760
>> Okay. Thank you. Appreciate it.

1318
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:27,200
>> Great. Thank you.

1319
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:28,000
>> Okay.

1320
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,000
>> There's going to be

1321
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:31,520
the easement of something that we're

1322
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:33,200
going to be able to work on.

1323
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:33,520
>> Yep.

1324
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:36,079
>> Yeah. So definitely I'm sure that you

1325
00:46:36,079 --> 00:46:37,280
guys already were probably

1326
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:38,400
>> I mean definitely obviously with the

1327
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:39,839
applicant which was mentioned and then

1328
00:46:39,839 --> 00:46:41,760
obviously we'll we'll try our best with

1329
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:42,640
the other one too as well.

1330
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:44,079
>> A decent relationship with

1331
00:46:44,079 --> 00:46:44,960
>> No, it seems like there

1332
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,440
>> so we'll see.

1333
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,560
>> Y okay next missing middle housing

1334
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:53,839
update. Bryce, you're on

1335
00:46:53,839 --> 00:46:55,359
>> you don't mind? I'm going to present

1336
00:46:55,359 --> 00:46:58,079
just absolutely.

1337
00:46:58,079 --> 00:46:59,359
>> You have to introduce yourself though

1338
00:46:59,359 --> 00:47:01,440
and give your address.

1339
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:02,800
>> No, no, no.

1340
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:05,040
134. [laughter]

1341
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:07,200
>> That works. That works.

1342
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:11,750
>> I got to get him to stop sharing.

1343
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:13,280
» Remove. Oh, there it is. Thank you.

1344
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:13,680
>> Y

1345
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:18,470
>> nice Josh.

1346
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,280
Share. So, Bryce, this is where we

1347
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:22,720
couldn't hear you or you couldn't hear

1348
00:47:22,720 --> 00:47:24,880
us. This is a continuation. It's your

1349
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:26,800
fault. Started.

1350
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:26,960
We

1351
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:28,880
>> accept responsibility.

1352
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:30,800
Are you gonna start from the beginning?

1353
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:33,589
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1354
00:47:33,599 --> 00:47:37,270
Okay.

1355
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:39,680
» Oh yeah, we can minimize minimize spenty

1356
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:41,200
too.

1357
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:42,640
>> Or we can move her around the the

1358
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:43,760
neighborhood.

1359
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:44,800
>> Move in the neighborhood.

1360
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:46,079
>> This is always my problem with the

1361
00:47:46,079 --> 00:47:47,760
presentation. There's always something

1362
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:48,480
behind

1363
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:49,760
>> you can minimize.

1364
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:51,839
>> Yeah.

1365
00:47:51,839 --> 00:47:56,720
If if there are questions baked in, just jump off mute

1366
00:47:56,720 --> 00:47:57,760
because I don't think I'll be able to

1367
00:47:57,760 --> 00:47:58,960
see you. We'll

1368
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,520
>> probably We'll keep track. Yeah. Okay.

1369
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:05,280
All right. So, can we do it right? There

1370
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:09,200
we go. Okay. Um, so we started this back

1371
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:10,880
on September 8th, but due to some

1372
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:12,480
technical difficulties, we had to move

1373
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:15,760
this to tonight. Um,

1374
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,079
thanks to the 98. So, I just want to

1375
00:48:18,079 --> 00:48:22,160
level this report out is both a good

1376
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:24,480
precursor to Thursday. Uh, would have

1377
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:25,839
been nice if we had this a couple weeks

1378
00:48:25,839 --> 00:48:27,839
ago so we had a little bit more time.

1379
00:48:27,839 --> 00:48:29,680
Um, but this is also a deliverable part

1380
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:32,400
of the scope. So, LGCC the funer of this

1381
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:34,319
project is requiring us to send his

1382
00:48:34,319 --> 00:48:36,720
report out. Um, John Miner is going to

1383
00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:39,119
be doing a report out to the the the

1384
00:48:39,119 --> 00:48:40,880
council as well as part of the the

1385
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:43,200
scope. So, this is a deliverable. Um,

1386
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:46,160
and this is really kind of the last last

1387
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:48,800
opportunity we have to do this.

1388
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:51,680
And so, this this report out is going to

1389
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:54,160
basically recap this project, right? All

1390
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:56,240
the the various deliverables that we've

1391
00:48:56,240 --> 00:48:58,800
had um throughout the project. Sue, I

1392
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:00,880
know you asked for um the scope. I'll

1393
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:02,800
give it at the end, I suppose.

1394
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:04,240
>> Yeah, that's because we're gonna be

1395
00:49:04,240 --> 00:49:06,559
we're beating on a lot of the same scope

1396
00:49:06,559 --> 00:49:08,843
anyway. Um but yeah, we're

1397
00:49:08,843 --> 00:49:09,359
[clears throat] going to be going

1398
00:49:09,359 --> 00:49:10,720
through the deliverables, engagement

1399
00:49:10,720 --> 00:49:12,160
thinking, all that kind of stuff, and

1400
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:14,240
then really for what these workshops are

1401
00:49:14,240 --> 00:49:16,000
going to look like throughout uh the

1402
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:20,079
fall. Um so I wanted to just reiterate

1403
00:49:20,079 --> 00:49:22,160
level set kind of what this project is.

1404
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:24,559
This was a a $350,000

1405
00:49:24,559 --> 00:49:27,359
grant from the Department of Defense via

1406
00:49:27,359 --> 00:49:29,119
OOLTCC

1407
00:49:29,119 --> 00:49:31,520
um which is kind of the community um

1408
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:33,680
kind of arm of of the Department of

1409
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:36,800
Defense. Um basically the town crafted

1410
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:39,839
an RFP around middle housing that

1411
00:49:39,839 --> 00:49:42,559
spanned eight main tasks each

1412
00:49:42,559 --> 00:49:44,640
deliverables each with separate kind of

1413
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:48,000
subtasks, right? Um we received 13

1414
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:49,760
responses to this RFP. So, it was

1415
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:52,800
actually pretty well um responded to. We

1416
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:54,880
went through a tough process. Uh Steve,

1417
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:56,480
you were on the the selection committee

1418
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:58,880
for that. I'm sure you remember. Um and

1419
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:02,000
then we chose sports and witness team um

1420
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:04,960
in May of 2025 to work on this project.

1421
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:07,359
Um this consulting team, you know, we

1422
00:50:07,359 --> 00:50:09,920
call just really fantastic um collection

1423
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:12,800
of people. Obviously, of course, where

1424
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:15,040
you're familiar with via the VCD, but

1425
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:17,040
Union Studios who've done a lot of work.

1426
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:19,920
Um, MTC, NBC, New Master Plan in that

1427
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:20,559
area.

1428
00:50:20,559 --> 00:50:20,960
>> Guidelines,

1429
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:22,400
>> design guidelines.

1430
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:24,960
>> Um, as well as De Mo Associates who've

1431
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:26,960
done a lot of the great research um for

1432
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:29,520
the town in the past. Um, along with

1433
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:31,760
newcomers, Kronberg urbanists and

1434
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:33,520
architects who, you know, he's kind of

1435
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:34,720
come in and out of this project,

1436
00:50:34,720 --> 00:50:36,960
Ericberg as well as Barrett Planning

1437
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:40,720
Group. Um and so this began, you know,

1438
00:50:40,720 --> 00:50:43,040
the work began basically immediately,

1439
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:44,640
right? We had to get this future housing

1440
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:47,040
demand supply study done. This was that

1441
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:50,000
2025 uh regional demand study, which

1442
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:51,200
I'll go into in a little bit more

1443
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:53,760
detail, but just to reiterate, you know,

1444
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:55,520
I'm sure we've all talked about this to

1445
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:57,520
death. Um before we get any further,

1446
00:50:57,520 --> 00:50:59,280
middle housing, obviously we're

1447
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:00,880
referring to everything between single

1448
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,680
family home and larger kind of apartment

1449
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:06,640
buildings. This is kind of a contextual

1450
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:08,720
definition. There's no hard and fast,

1451
00:51:08,720 --> 00:51:10,240
you know, legal definition of middle

1452
00:51:10,240 --> 00:51:12,960
housing. Even state statute has varying

1453
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:14,960
definitions of of middle housing, trans

1454
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:16,559
middle housing, all that kind of stuff.

1455
00:51:16,559 --> 00:51:18,480
But for the Graten context, we were kind

1456
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:20,400
of defining it between accessory

1457
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:22,480
dwelling units, right? So, a single

1458
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:24,079
family and an accessory dwelling units,

1459
00:51:24,079 --> 00:51:26,640
two two units on on a lot all the way up

1460
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:29,119
to what we were calling captain's

1461
00:51:29,119 --> 00:51:31,200
houses, right? So in Newport you would

1462
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:36,160
call them probably like manor houses or subdivided kind of um mansions and

1463
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:39,359
things like that. Um important note that

1464
00:51:39,359 --> 00:51:41,680
you know the other housing types still

1465
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:44,240
have a piece of of the fabric and

1466
00:51:44,240 --> 00:51:47,200
bottom. Right. So again the deliverables

1467
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:51,359
that we had um that we were working on

1468
00:51:51,359 --> 00:51:53,760
were uh we started off with the housing

1469
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:57,280
demand supply study. Um we moved into

1470
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:02,309
and I just want to quickly Was

1471
00:52:02,319 --> 00:52:02,800
it

1472
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:03,280
>> good?

1473
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:08,069
>> Yeah, it's distracting.

1474
00:52:08,079 --> 00:52:22,309
Let's see.

1475
00:52:22,319 --> 00:52:24,880
There's a missing slide. Yeah. Okay,

1476
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:27,920
hang on.

1477
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:42,710
Can you press this again?

1478
00:52:42,720 --> 00:52:45,359
I'm going to stop sharing my computer.

1479
00:52:45,359 --> 00:52:46,960
>> Yeah, you you've already hit stop

1480
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:47,359
sharing.

1481
00:52:47,359 --> 00:52:49,280
>> Yeah. Okay, let me stop sharing real

1482
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:50,960
quick. I'm going to go on this computer

1483
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:52,800
real quick through Zoom, but I'm going

1484
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,200
to continue. So, I'm just going to back

1485
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:58,240
up real quick and just

1486
00:52:58,240 --> 00:52:59,119
>> minimize this. All right.

1487
00:52:59,119 --> 00:53:01,280
>> Yeah. No, that's fine.

1488
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:03,680
Back up real quick to talk about a

1489
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:05,040
little bit more about the project and

1490
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:10,079
its contents. So, this project exists um

1491
00:53:10,079 --> 00:53:11,839
under the framework of the compatible

1492
00:53:11,839 --> 00:53:13,440
use plan, which is basically the new

1493
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:16,319
iteration of the the JUS. the JLUS um

1494
00:53:16,319 --> 00:53:20,880
back in 2017 was kind of the plan that

1495
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:26,079
came out of OLDCC with CCOG leading that

1496
00:53:26,079 --> 00:53:29,599
um seeks to ensure that all the base

1497
00:53:29,599 --> 00:53:31,839
operations uh are compatible with the

1498
00:53:31,839 --> 00:53:34,160
host community. So this project is

1499
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:39,599
actually a sub project of uh

1500
00:53:39,599 --> 00:53:42,480
that new compatible use plan. So, I

1501
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:44,079
don't know if anyone was able to go to

1502
00:53:44,079 --> 00:53:47,200
that February meeting back in 2026. That

1503
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:51,280
was like the compatible use plan um

1504
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:52,800
for

1505
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:56,960
uh via the the COG, but this project

1506
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:58,960
I think the has the COG finished their

1507
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:00,160
compatible use plan yet?

1508
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:01,599
>> I I have not seen the funding.

1509
00:54:01,599 --> 00:54:02,319
>> You haven't seen it?

1510
00:54:02,319 --> 00:54:03,839
>> Yeah.

1511
00:54:03,839 --> 00:54:06,880
But this all all the funding is is

1512
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:10,710
through this same

1513
00:54:10,720 --> 00:54:13,920
um bucket. I'm just hoping

1514
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:15,839
quick.

1515
00:54:15,839 --> 00:54:25,430
>> All right. Thank you.

1516
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:27,200
And [clears throat]

1517
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:29,599
there we go. So

1518
00:54:29,599 --> 00:54:35,829
we need

1519
00:54:35,839 --> 00:54:41,349
just promote.

1520
00:54:41,359 --> 00:54:49,190
I apologize about that.

1521
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:58,390
All right.

1522
00:54:58,400 --> 00:54:59,680
So, we just talked about the

1523
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:02,640
cup. Um, so where does this project fit

1524
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:04,400
in? Obviously, we talked about we talked

1525
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:06,160
a lot about metal housing throughout the

1526
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:08,640
PCD um update process. We tried to

1527
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:10,400
integrate it as much as possible, but

1528
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:12,319
obviously there was some limited but

1529
00:55:12,319 --> 00:55:13,760
attempted coordination with the climate

1530
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:16,640
action plan as much as it was um kind of

1531
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:18,960
appropriate as well as coordinating with

1532
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:20,400
those statutory changes that are

1533
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:23,680
required via PA25-1

1534
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:25,440
um that we talked about at our last

1535
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:28,800
meeting. Um unlike the PCD though this

1536
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:30,880
is the townled project. We have a lot of

1537
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:32,000
touch points. We had a lot of touch

1538
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:34,319
points with the PCC um throughout you

1539
00:55:34,319 --> 00:55:35,359
know we started talking about the

1540
00:55:35,359 --> 00:55:38,559
methodology from previous housing demand

1541
00:55:38,559 --> 00:55:41,359
and supply studies to this one. Um all

1542
00:55:41,359 --> 00:55:42,720
the public meetings all the public

1543
00:55:42,720 --> 00:55:45,040
outreach um but really the project scope

1544
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:46,800
and deliverable tasks were structured by

1545
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:49,119
the town and then consulting consultants

1546
00:55:49,119 --> 00:55:50,880
working with the town have been working

1547
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:53,200
on fulfilling those deliverables. Right.

1548
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:56,319
Um and final deliverables. This is, you

1549
00:55:56,319 --> 00:55:57,599
know, why we're here tonight. The final

1550
00:55:57,599 --> 00:56:01,119
deliverables obviously call for um this

1551
00:56:01,119 --> 00:56:03,040
set of recommendations being made to the

1552
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:06,160
PCC. Again, there is nothing in this

1553
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:07,599
scope, nothing in this grant that

1554
00:56:07,599 --> 00:56:09,680
requires the PCC to do anything with

1555
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:10,880
those recommendations, right? The

1556
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:13,040
recommendations just need to be made.

1557
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:15,040
Um, [clears throat and cough] and so let

1558
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:16,960
me go back to this. So, uh, just

1559
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:18,720
knocking through the deliverables, we

1560
00:56:18,720 --> 00:56:20,559
did the housing demand and supply study

1561
00:56:20,559 --> 00:56:22,640
back in September. that was released

1562
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:25,760
September 2025, so a year ago now. Um,

1563
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:27,280
moving into the missing middle housing

1564
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:29,440
inventory typologies. Um, so that's

1565
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:31,040
where Union went around town and

1566
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:32,400
basically took stock of all the

1567
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:34,799
different um, examples of missing middle

1568
00:56:34,799 --> 00:56:36,799
housing to kind of start informing what

1569
00:56:36,799 --> 00:56:39,040
we might want in the future. Um, and

1570
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:41,920
then in March of 2026,

1571
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:43,760
there was the opportunity sites, which

1572
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:46,039
then took those examples and started

1573
00:56:46,039 --> 00:56:47,359
[clears throat] to show what a site

1574
00:56:47,359 --> 00:56:48,960
layout could look like on various

1575
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:51,680
hypothetical um, sites throughout the

1576
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:55,040
town. Um, and then tools and approaches

1577
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:56,799
to promote housing options. I believe

1578
00:56:56,799 --> 00:56:59,200
that was in June. Um, that was our last

1579
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:01,839
public meeting um, over at Thrive. And

1580
00:57:01,839 --> 00:57:03,760
that basically took all of the feedback

1581
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,160
we've heard to date and started to kind

1582
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:08,400
of formulate them into a series of

1583
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:10,880
approaches that could get to the results

1584
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:13,119
that people were asking for and that the

1585
00:57:13,119 --> 00:57:15,119
town kind of knew they had to get to um

1586
00:57:15,119 --> 00:57:17,680
but do it in a a way that responded

1587
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:19,040
directly to feedback we've got

1588
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:21,200
throughout the project. Um and then that

1589
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:23,359
leads us into recommended regulatory

1590
00:57:23,359 --> 00:57:25,200
changes which need to be done in

1591
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:27,200
December 2026. This is a good time to

1592
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:30,640
mention that this grant extended to it

1593
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:33,599
was originally due to to complete by

1594
00:57:33,599 --> 00:57:37,520
June 30th of 2026, but because of the

1595
00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:39,440
government shutdown, there was no

1596
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:41,680
communication between us and the DoD or

1597
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:43,200
anything like that. So, we got an

1598
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:45,359
extension uh through the end of December

1599
00:57:45,359 --> 00:57:47,040
for that. So, that pushed out some of

1600
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:49,200
our deliverables as well as that final

1601
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:50,880
deliverable. I want to touch real quick

1602
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:52,559
on buildout scenarios because we've

1603
00:57:52,559 --> 00:57:54,400
talked about that kind of throughout the

1604
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:55,760
project, right? So what would these

1605
00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:57,200
recommendations look like in buildout

1606
00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:00,160
scenarios? Um that was a very very

1607
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:02,559
tricky deliverable for us. Um from the

1608
00:58:02,559 --> 00:58:04,079
consultant side, they went down this

1609
00:58:04,079 --> 00:58:07,760
path using ArcGIS that kind of promised

1610
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:09,520
to have the capabilities of doing a

1611
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:12,240
townwide buildout scenario or analysis

1612
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:14,480
and it just didn't it just wasn't able

1613
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:17,359
to do that. It was built more for denser

1614
00:58:17,359 --> 00:58:19,200
cities, right, that had a lot more

1615
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:20,960
spatial data than I think we had at the

1616
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:23,200
time. Um, so then we kind of backed up

1617
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:24,960
and tried a different approach just kind

1618
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:27,440
of doing spreadsheets and looking at lot

1619
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:29,040
sizes, but there just wasn't enough

1620
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:32,720
context. And so we pivoted then into

1621
00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:35,760
kind of a more contextual approach using

1622
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:38,559
smaller geographies um throughout town.

1623
00:58:38,559 --> 00:58:42,000
So, you know, kind of backing in, we we

1624
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:44,000
looked at Quantic Bridge originally and

1625
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:46,960
then when the Flume um and the PCD was

1626
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:49,520
adopted, it kind of theoretically gave

1627
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:52,079
us those few geographies throughout town

1628
00:58:52,079 --> 00:58:53,440
that would really make sense to dive in

1629
00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:55,119
deeper to see what this could look like.

1630
00:58:55,119 --> 00:58:58,000
Um, and so because that was just a

1631
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:00,000
moving target throughout and because

1632
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:02,240
ultimately I think we we recognized that

1633
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:03,920
doing buildout scenarios without your

1634
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:05,520
input as to kind of what you were

1635
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:08,079
interested in in terms of, you know, are

1636
00:59:08,079 --> 00:59:09,760
you interested in cottage communities?

1637
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:11,839
Are you interested in pursuing, you

1638
00:59:11,839 --> 00:59:14,079
know, changing some regs around

1639
00:59:14,079 --> 00:59:15,680
multi-unit conditions and things like

1640
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:17,680
that without knowing that, it would have

1641
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:19,040
been kind of weird just to do a series

1642
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:20,960
of buildout scenarios on recommendations

1643
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:22,240
you may or may not have been interested

1644
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:25,839
in pursuing. So, we did kind of a test

1645
00:59:25,839 --> 00:59:28,000
buildout scenario and then just kind of

1646
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:30,400
left it at that and wanted to wait and

1647
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:33,520
we've got KUA beginning to work on kind

1648
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:34,960
of setting the framework for the rest of

1649
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:37,359
them once we get some more feedback um

1650
00:59:37,359 --> 00:59:38,799
throughout these workshops. So, I just

1651
00:59:38,799 --> 00:59:39,760
wanted to

1652
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:41,920
>> So, what was the time frame on that?

1653
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:43,760
Because at one point an algorithm was

1654
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:47,359
given to the town council price and how

1655
00:59:47,359 --> 00:59:50,480
did that um how did that tie to the

1656
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:52,880
buildout?

1657
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:55,680
Do you remember that? So what was um

1658
00:59:55,680 --> 00:59:59,040
part of the POCD we were given um not

1659
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:01,599
this project as far as some some

1660
01:00:01,599 --> 01:00:02,960
increased densities.

1661
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:03,359
>> Mhm.

1662
01:00:03,359 --> 01:00:03,839
>> Right.

1663
01:00:03,839 --> 01:00:06,559
>> Oh yeah. Yeah. No, that was not tied to

1664
01:00:06,559 --> 01:00:09,040
buildout at all. Yeah. Yeah. that that

1665
01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:12,079
was [clears throat]

1666
01:00:12,079 --> 01:00:15,680
I think just imagining what

1667
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:17,760
certain areas or certain zones could

1668
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:20,880
accommodate based on water, sewer, uh

1669
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:22,720
proximity to commercial things like

1670
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:25,520
that. Um but it it had no bearing on

1671
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:28,000
what the buildout scenarios were at that

1672
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:29,119
point in time. There was no

1673
01:00:29,119 --> 01:00:32,240
communication between them. Um and so as

1674
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:33,839
you probably know, there was tons of

1675
01:00:33,839 --> 01:00:35,839
engagement. I think we probably did more

1676
01:00:35,839 --> 01:00:37,200
engagement than we've done in a long

1677
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:39,599
time um on this project. So all of the

1678
01:00:39,599 --> 01:00:41,040
walking tours, presentations to

1679
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:42,799
different ABCs. So there was council

1680
01:00:42,799 --> 01:00:44,240
presentations, presentations to you

1681
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:47,520
guys, RTM um went to conservation

1682
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:51,440
commission um and then tableabling um at

1683
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:53,760
various community um events. We I think

1684
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:55,200
we did national night out was our most

1685
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:56,000
recent one.

1686
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:58,880
>> Couple of churches, public meetings of

1687
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:00,480
course. Yeah, we we did a lot of kind of

1688
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:02,079
interest group. If they invited us, we

1689
01:01:02,079 --> 01:01:03,440
would do presentations, right? We had

1690
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:04,799
like a road show deck that we were

1691
01:01:04,799 --> 01:01:08,000
using. Um, and that led me to my first

1692
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:12,160
question stop. Um, if you guys can hold,

1693
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:14,400
if there is nothing pressing, we can

1694
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:16,400
continue before we get into some more

1695
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:17,839
media. I just kind of wanted to set the

1696
01:01:17,839 --> 01:01:20,000
stage. I guess [clears throat] I'll go

1697
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:22,160
back to that question I raised when the

1698
01:01:22,160 --> 01:01:26,382
Zoom blew up I guess at the last meeting

1699
01:01:26,382 --> 01:01:27,119
[clears throat]

1700
01:01:27,119 --> 01:01:30,480
but in all of our um discussions over

1701
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:33,839
the I guess more than a year now

1702
01:01:33,839 --> 01:01:36,400
and those nice interesting very

1703
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:38,400
interesting tours that you gave in

1704
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:40,000
different neighborhoods and everything I

1705
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:43,440
think we looking at housing is certainly

1706
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:46,880
always interesting um but I never saw a

1707
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:50,240
really practical ical viable plan

1708
01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:52,400
regarding the exact zoning that would

1709
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:55,599
result in housing change in a realistic

1710
01:01:55,599 --> 01:01:59,760
time frame at a reasonable cost. And to

1711
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:00,880
get [clears throat] back to the cost

1712
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:04,400
problem, I think um I think it's it's

1713
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:07,359
really a difficult situation here. Um

1714
01:02:07,359 --> 01:02:09,119
this whole studies and everything were

1715
01:02:09,119 --> 01:02:11,440
designed before economics and really

1716
01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:14,079
EB's approach to the region changed

1717
01:02:14,079 --> 01:02:15,760
dramatically.

1718
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:16,880
And so I [clears throat] think you have

1719
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:20,480
a a whole different set of really needs

1720
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:23,760
resulting. I mean the fact that Canada

1721
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:24,880
who does [clears throat] most of our

1722
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:27,839
framing lumber um the prices on that are

1723
01:02:27,839 --> 01:02:29,918
going over the roof. So I

1724
01:02:29,918 --> 01:02:30,799
[clears throat] think we have to ask

1725
01:02:30,799 --> 01:02:33,440
ourselves it's I mean we have our ADUs.

1726
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:35,200
They were deemed I guess too expensive

1727
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:37,040
by a lot of people. We've only done I

1728
01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:39,920
guess six of them. Cottage communities.

1729
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:41,599
I guess we did that. We all thought that

1730
01:02:41,599 --> 01:02:43,673
was a great idea. So that's

1731
01:02:43,673 --> 01:02:45,839
[clears throat] your first two. um big

1732
01:02:45,839 --> 01:02:48,913
items on your missing middle but

1733
01:02:48,913 --> 01:02:49,760
[clears throat] they haven't really

1734
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:53,440
gained traction and if the pricing is

1735
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:55,839
too high how are we ever going to gain

1736
01:02:55,839 --> 01:02:58,640
traction on any of this I guess

1737
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:01,440
>> so as part of one of the last

1738
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:03,599
deliverables we had

1739
01:03:03,599 --> 01:03:06,160
>> um KUA created this attainability

1740
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:09,040
calculator that took assumed land costs

1741
01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:11,599
took assumed soft costs horizontal cost

1742
01:03:11,599 --> 01:03:13,200
so like building costs and and

1743
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:15,200
acquisition costs design costs

1744
01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:17,200
and took number of units it would take

1745
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:19,200
to actually make this stuff attainable.

1746
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:21,359
So, it looked at all those things that

1747
01:03:21,359 --> 01:03:23,359
you're talking about from a builder's

1748
01:03:23,359 --> 01:03:25,920
perspective, but also integrated um

1749
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:28,559
median incomes using HUD data, also

1750
01:03:28,559 --> 01:03:30,799
integrated as an different option,

1751
01:03:30,799 --> 01:03:33,280
median incomes using Grten specific

1752
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:36,160
census data as well. Um, so to your

1753
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:38,319
point, yes, I mean construction costs

1754
01:03:38,319 --> 01:03:41,119
are increasing substantially, borrowing

1755
01:03:41,119 --> 01:03:44,319
costs are increasing substantially, but

1756
01:03:44,319 --> 01:03:48,240
I think we've done a lot of the homework

1757
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:51,599
and EB is hiring more than the

1758
01:03:51,599 --> 01:03:53,680
projections they gave us in the 2025

1759
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:56,720
study. So that demand is gone up since

1760
01:03:56,720 --> 01:04:00,640
we even did that study. And

1761
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:02,720
a lot [clears throat] of I think the

1762
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:05,119
work that you want to see is the work

1763
01:04:05,119 --> 01:04:07,359
that Horsely Whitten's going to present

1764
01:04:07,359 --> 01:04:09,839
at Thursday's workshop to really start,

1765
01:04:09,839 --> 01:04:12,319
right? Because if you remember that that

1766
01:04:12,319 --> 01:04:15,440
last public meeting at Thrive was really

1767
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:16,720
these are the things that people are

1768
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:19,200
asking for, right? Cottage communities,

1769
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:21,839
more accessible ADUs, that smaller scale

1770
01:04:21,839 --> 01:04:24,480
housing. and then Horsey Whit and the

1771
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:25,920
consultants really worked to be like

1772
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:27,680
this is this is the menu of options or

1773
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:29,760
approaches we could take without giving

1774
01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:31,839
specific you know zoning recommendations

1775
01:04:31,839 --> 01:04:34,640
at that point. So what Thursday is going

1776
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:36,559
to be and what the ensuing workshops are

1777
01:04:36,559 --> 01:04:38,079
going to be is actually kind of putting

1778
01:04:38,079 --> 01:04:39,520
the pedal to the metal, having those

1779
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:41,520
discussions with you kind of what are

1780
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:43,200
these priorities for you? What are you

1781
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:44,960
hearing? What would you like to see more

1782
01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:48,240
of? And then also level setting to your

1783
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:50,160
point about the financials like okay but

1784
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:52,000
what's what how can we make this

1785
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:53,760
attainable? How can we make this work?

1786
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:55,440
>> I don't think I don't think any of it's

1787
01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:56,960
attainable.

1788
01:04:56,960 --> 01:04:58,480
>> And that's your opinion. That's your

1789
01:04:58,480 --> 01:04:59,359
opinion.

1790
01:04:59,359 --> 01:05:00,880
>> This is not my opinion because I really

1791
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:02,799
don't know. I'm just reading what

1792
01:05:02,799 --> 01:05:04,160
experts are saying, the Wall Street

1793
01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:06,640
Journal, New York Times, whatever. And I

1794
01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:08,720
wish that were not true, believe me.

1795
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:11,359
>> And maybe unless you go to a real like

1796
01:05:11,359 --> 01:05:16,079
a, you know, modular type home scenario,

1797
01:05:16,079 --> 01:05:17,680
I haven't seen anything

1798
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:17,920
>> Yeah.

1799
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:20,240
>> that would um be attainable.

1800
01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:22,079
>> Well, people people are building

1801
01:05:22,079 --> 01:05:24,480
apartment buildings

1802
01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:26,079
>> and [clears throat] it's profitable.

1803
01:05:26,079 --> 01:05:26,400
>> Yeah.

1804
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:26,960
>> You know.

1805
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:28,960
>> Yeah. And this is why we retain the

1806
01:05:28,960 --> 01:05:30,640
experts on the consulting group too

1807
01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:32,240
because they are experts nationally in

1808
01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:32,799
their field.

1809
01:05:32,799 --> 01:05:34,319
>> That's not missing middle.

1810
01:05:34,319 --> 01:05:36,240
>> Well, [clears throat] I'm just saying

1811
01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:38,799
from a building standpoint, but

1812
01:05:38,799 --> 01:05:41,119
>> what I would like to see is, you know,

1813
01:05:41,119 --> 01:05:43,599
cost per square foot of all these

1814
01:05:43,599 --> 01:05:45,359
different options. Y

1815
01:05:45,359 --> 01:05:49,920
>> and then see, you know, I mean, I I

1816
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:52,319
agree with Sue in part that, you know,

1817
01:05:52,319 --> 01:05:53,680
there's going to be certain things that

1818
01:05:53,680 --> 01:05:55,839
are just, you know, nobody's going to

1819
01:05:55,839 --> 01:05:57,280
build because it doesn't make sense.

1820
01:05:57,280 --> 01:05:57,760
>> Yeah.

1821
01:05:57,760 --> 01:05:58,960
And and that's why we've

1822
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:00,720
integrated as much as possible, not only

1823
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:03,039
the zoning, but like level setting what

1824
01:06:03,039 --> 01:06:04,880
building code actually allows, right?

1825
01:06:04,880 --> 01:06:06,480
Because remember we talked about the

1826
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:07,440
difference between [clears throat]

1827
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:09,440
residential code and international

1828
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:11,440
building code, which dictates a lot of

1829
01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:13,119
the commercial structures, commercial,

1830
01:06:13,119 --> 01:06:15,440
multif family. That's where things get

1831
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:18,160
exorbitantly expensive. So all of the

1832
01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:19,760
things that the consultants have been

1833
01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:20,960
exploring and that they're going to

1834
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:23,599
present to you in these workshops all

1835
01:06:23,599 --> 01:06:26,640
fun fall under IRC for that exact reason

1836
01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:30,880
because costs get so much higher when

1837
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:32,640
you start to move into those different

1838
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:34,880
codes irrespective of of zoning right

1839
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:37,359
and and land use policy. So, we weren't

1840
01:06:37,359 --> 01:06:40,400
going to even pursue anything in zoning

1841
01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:42,880
recommendations that would have required

1842
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:45,680
falling into that IBC cuz we thought as

1843
01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:47,520
staff and the consultants as experts

1844
01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:49,200
thought that's just not going to be

1845
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:50,559
financially feasible. No one's going to

1846
01:06:50,559 --> 01:06:52,559
build it. So, I think you'll find on

1847
01:06:52,559 --> 01:06:54,799
Thursday that everything that Horsely

1848
01:06:54,799 --> 01:06:56,079
Whitten and Consultant Group are

1849
01:06:56,079 --> 01:06:58,480
recommending, they're recommending

1850
01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:00,240
because they think it could actually be

1851
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:02,319
built and it's not just something we're

1852
01:07:02,319 --> 01:07:04,079
going to put in zoning and it's going to

1853
01:07:04,079 --> 01:07:06,400
sit for 15 years till we, you know,

1854
01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:08,799
realize this isn't doing anything and we

1855
01:07:08,799 --> 01:07:10,400
need to go back to the drawing board.

1856
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:12,799
>> Are they going to have a cost?

1857
01:07:12,799 --> 01:07:14,640
>> This is the attainabil the attainability

1858
01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:16,960
calculator like what I talked about, but

1859
01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:19,280
also there is there's no way to predict.

1860
01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:20,559
There was no way to predict two years

1861
01:07:20,559 --> 01:07:22,000
ago what building costs are going to be

1862
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:22,480
today.

1863
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:24,960
>> I don't disagree with that, but I think

1864
01:07:24,960 --> 01:07:27,599
it's good to use where they are and go

1865
01:07:27,599 --> 01:07:28,000
from there.

1866
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:29,200
>> And that's what we've always

1867
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:31,039
>> So, they could actually say, okay, if

1868
01:07:31,039 --> 01:07:34,720
you have a whatever a condominium or or

1869
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:37,039
missing build type thing, ADU, it's

1870
01:07:37,039 --> 01:07:38,319
going to cost whatever.

1871
01:07:38,319 --> 01:07:41,520
>> And I gave all building valuation costs

1872
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:43,680
for all middle housing and apartments at

1873
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:45,520
the start of this project. I went into

1874
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:48,160
the building files and pulled all those

1875
01:07:48,160 --> 01:07:50,079
costs and gave them to con to the

1876
01:07:50,079 --> 01:07:52,960
consultants specifically for that reason

1877
01:07:52,960 --> 01:07:55,280
so that they knew even what local costs

1878
01:07:55,280 --> 01:07:57,599
have been for construction here and what

1879
01:07:57,599 --> 01:08:00,000
projects were actually attainable or at

1880
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:02,240
least more feasible before we went any

1881
01:08:02,240 --> 01:08:02,640
further.

1882
01:08:02,640 --> 01:08:05,039
>> Right. I think just reasonably costs

1883
01:08:05,039 --> 01:08:06,720
have just gone crazy.

1884
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:08,079
>> I promise.

1885
01:08:08,079 --> 01:08:10,720
>> Plus like you're saying the long-term

1886
01:08:10,720 --> 01:08:13,280
borrowing cost. I think the thing is too

1887
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:15,520
some of those things like lumber costs

1888
01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:18,719
are very cyclical. They'll go up because

1889
01:08:18,719 --> 01:08:21,679
there's something going on nationally.

1890
01:08:21,679 --> 01:08:23,839
It's sold on the international market

1891
01:08:23,839 --> 01:08:25,600
>> and it could go back down. I mean it

1892
01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:26,159
does.

1893
01:08:26,159 --> 01:08:27,759
>> I think frankly some of this just comes

1894
01:08:27,759 --> 01:08:29,600
back to kind of paralysis by analysis.

1895
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:32,719
Like we kind of have both from the grant

1896
01:08:32,719 --> 01:08:34,560
and what our expectations are. We have

1897
01:08:34,560 --> 01:08:36,960
to continue with these workshops. And so

1898
01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:38,159
we're going to be moving into these

1899
01:08:38,159 --> 01:08:40,400
workshops. And I mean, I think we feel

1900
01:08:40,400 --> 01:08:42,640
and the consultants feel that we've done

1901
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:44,640
a lot of our due diligence and homework

1902
01:08:44,640 --> 01:08:46,880
and justification for whatever

1903
01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:48,640
recommendations are presented to you

1904
01:08:48,640 --> 01:08:52,080
guys that they are reasonable in terms

1905
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:54,960
of the costs that will be incurred to a

1906
01:08:54,960 --> 01:08:57,679
builder and also the attainable aspect

1907
01:08:57,679 --> 01:09:00,159
to a renter or a home buyer, but also

1908
01:09:00,159 --> 01:09:01,679
that it's it's going to get built. I

1909
01:09:01,679 --> 01:09:04,080
don't think any of us here want to do a

1910
01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:05,920
new cottage community regulation and

1911
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:07,839
then have every developer come to us and

1912
01:09:07,839 --> 01:09:11,520
say this isn't going to work. Like it's not a great reflection on the town.

1913
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:13,679
>> Um and I don't think any of us really

1914
01:09:13,679 --> 01:09:14,239
want that,

1915
01:09:14,239 --> 01:09:14,799
>> right?

1916
01:09:14,799 --> 01:09:15,679
>> So

1917
01:09:15,679 --> 01:09:17,359
>> well recently [clears throat] actually

1918
01:09:17,359 --> 01:09:18,319
there was something

1919
01:09:18,319 --> 01:09:19,199
>> Yes. Yes.

1920
01:09:19,199 --> 01:09:19,520
>> Oh

1921
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:21,279
>> just just like split whatever.

1922
01:09:21,279 --> 01:09:24,000
>> I'll go after you do then I make I want

1923
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:26,319
to make a comment on

1924
01:09:26,319 --> 01:09:28,400
I just actually this probably closing

1925
01:09:28,400 --> 01:09:31,839
it'll be won't be too long. Um this

1926
01:09:31,839 --> 01:09:34,480
gentleman who's um president of electric

1927
01:09:34,480 --> 01:09:37,199
boat what his name is Mark Ryha

1928
01:09:37,199 --> 01:09:39,359
>> Raha

1929
01:09:39,359 --> 01:09:42,000
thank you he had an interesting thing to

1930
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:44,640
say I thought it was in a day I believe

1931
01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:47,440
he said um in order to accommodate

1932
01:09:47,440 --> 01:09:50,239
electric boats growing workforce and he

1933
01:09:50,239 --> 01:09:52,799
said the company plans to hire our 8,000

1934
01:09:52,799 --> 01:09:55,323
new employees this year

1935
01:09:55,323 --> 01:09:57,280
[clears throat] and um that's on track

1936
01:09:57,280 --> 01:09:59,760
to meet those goals but he said the

1937
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:01,840
state needs housing, particularly more

1938
01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:04,239
apartments. Isn't that amazing? Uh he

1939
01:10:04,239 --> 01:10:05,520
said, "We're hiring a lot of young

1940
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:09,040
people. We need housing that's nearby."

1941
01:10:09,040 --> 01:10:11,520
He praised nearby New London, which has

1942
01:10:11,520 --> 01:10:12,960
supported building new apartment

1943
01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:14,973
complexes.

1944
01:10:14,973 --> 01:10:16,880
[clears throat] And he said, "I think

1945
01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:18,480
one of the benefits of some of the new

1946
01:10:18,480 --> 01:10:20,480
construction apartments here in New

1947
01:10:20,480 --> 01:10:22,719
London was the social element." Now,

1948
01:10:22,719 --> 01:10:23,840
see, I never would have thought of it

1949
01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:26,000
that way having lived in too many

1950
01:10:26,000 --> 01:10:28,080
apartments. He says, "So you want to be

1951
01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:30,080
able to get that part of it so that

1952
01:10:30,080 --> 01:10:31,679
people develop a connection to the

1953
01:10:31,679 --> 01:10:33,679
community and then as they branch out

1954
01:10:33,679 --> 01:10:34,880
and then they get married have

1955
01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:36,880
children." And I remember a lot of us,

1956
01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:38,480
including myself, saying you have to

1957
01:10:38,480 --> 01:10:40,640
really have home ownership in order to

1958
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:42,960
get, you know, stability in a community,

1959
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:46,480
you know, social stuff, you know, blah blah. So I thought it was really

1960
01:10:46,480 --> 01:10:49,920
interesting. Um, and he talks about all

1961
01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:52,320
places where electric boats going, but

1962
01:10:52,320 --> 01:10:54,080
I'll give this to staff so that they

1963
01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:55,600
could send everybody. I thought it was

1964
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:58,000
just a perspective that was so different

1965
01:10:58,000 --> 01:11:00,719
than what I've been thinking um myself a

1966
01:11:00,719 --> 01:11:02,960
lot and I thought it bears at least you

1967
01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:05,120
know putting in the mix here. So because

1968
01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:07,199
what we're doing here as a town of

1969
01:11:07,199 --> 01:11:09,520
Graten so far is basically apartments

1970
01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:12,480
and we certainly have a big backlog um a

1971
01:11:12,480 --> 01:11:14,960
good number of them on the way. So and

1972
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:18,480
people do make money um do people you

1973
01:11:18,480 --> 01:11:20,640
know who makes money on going down the

1974
01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:24,080
levels at current construction costs?

1975
01:11:24,080 --> 01:11:27,199
Um, so, so anyway, that's all as long as

1976
01:11:27,199 --> 01:11:28,719
we're getting the costs in there because

1977
01:11:28,719 --> 01:11:33,120
it's all been lots of theory for months, after months, different kinds of

1978
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:35,920
housing. That's all well and good, but

1979
01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:39,440
um, it's so important to say, okay, but

1980
01:11:39,440 --> 01:11:41,600
what does it really cost? You know,

1981
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:43,760
understanding and what you should also

1982
01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:45,280
know a little bit think about what's the

1983
01:11:45,280 --> 01:11:47,040
flexibility. Is it likely that maybe

1984
01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:50,320
we're going to see what 10% or 20%

1985
01:11:50,320 --> 01:11:52,080
decline if necessary the other thing

1986
01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:55,600
have at least have some idea but I think

1987
01:11:55,600 --> 01:11:56,960
on the other hand it's extremely

1988
01:11:56,960 --> 01:11:58,719
difficult environment to be working

1989
01:11:58,719 --> 01:12:00,239
right now for sure.

1990
01:12:00,239 --> 01:12:02,719
>> Yeah. I and maybe this was something we

1991
01:12:02,719 --> 01:12:05,120
just didn't communicate, but cost of

1992
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:08,159
building and cost to the eventual renter

1993
01:12:08,159 --> 01:12:10,800
and home buyer was the backbone of this

1994
01:12:10,800 --> 01:12:11,520
project

1995
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:14,480
>> and it's what's guided everything about

1996
01:12:14,480 --> 01:12:16,239
this project for the entirety of this

1997
01:12:16,239 --> 01:12:17,360
project. We've been meeting with

1998
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:21,120
Electric Boat monthly now. Um, and they

1999
01:12:21,120 --> 01:12:24,000
have a person now who is completely

2000
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:26,640
devoted to housing and making sure

2001
01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:28,239
there's enough housing for their

2002
01:12:28,239 --> 01:12:31,679
incoming workers and he's completely

2003
01:12:31,679 --> 01:12:34,640
behind any and all towns. He was up in

2004
01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:37,600
Norwich, but he's, you know, happy to to

2005
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:39,840
talk to you guys as much as as you'd

2006
01:12:39,840 --> 01:12:43,360
like about how electric boat really sees

2007
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:44,960
housing as the pinch point at this

2008
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:47,679
point. But

2009
01:12:47,679 --> 01:12:49,600
>> if I can keep going, do you have a

2010
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:50,480
question for this?

2011
01:12:50,480 --> 01:12:52,640
>> Uh, I'd like to split like one more hair

2012
01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:54,239
if you have any remaining on your head.

2013
01:12:54,239 --> 01:12:55,600
>> But after that,

2014
01:12:55,600 --> 01:12:58,159
>> I for these costs, I'm just very

2015
01:12:58,159 --> 01:13:00,080
interested to understand, are these for

2016
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:02,560
new builds or is that including infill

2017
01:13:02,560 --> 01:13:04,239
because I think that what we see a lot

2018
01:13:04,239 --> 01:13:07,440
of is that people are going to be um

2019
01:13:07,440 --> 01:13:09,280
expanding on what exists. And I think

2020
01:13:09,280 --> 01:13:11,199
that that's actually more of what we

2021
01:13:11,199 --> 01:13:13,040
want as a community anyways as opposed

2022
01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:15,199
to just leveling a site and throwing up

2023
01:13:15,199 --> 01:13:16,159
300 apartments

2024
01:13:16,159 --> 01:13:20,239
>> for sure. Um cost for retrofitting or

2025
01:13:20,239 --> 01:13:20,719
build

2026
01:13:20,719 --> 01:13:22,880
>> conversions are very very hard to spec

2027
01:13:22,880 --> 01:13:24,640
out in terms of cost. We did ask the

2028
01:13:24,640 --> 01:13:27,520
consultants that and it's so

2029
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:30,080
situationally dependent and the fire

2030
01:13:30,080 --> 01:13:33,920
marshall even if it's IVC IRC they walk

2031
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:36,640
into something's to code you got to go

2032
01:13:36,640 --> 01:13:38,080
right back to start. You know what I

2033
01:13:38,080 --> 01:13:40,320
Like so the conversion stuff is very

2034
01:13:40,320 --> 01:13:41,840
tricky to kind of figure out what the

2035
01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:43,600
cost of that could be. Some places some

2036
01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:45,280
homes are easier to convert than others,

2037
01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:46,800
right? They just their floor plans lend

2038
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:47,679
to it.

2039
01:13:47,679 --> 01:13:50,000
>> The additions and stuff like that. I

2040
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:52,640
think the best proxy we have for that is

2041
01:13:52,640 --> 01:13:55,440
probably accessory dwelling unit um type

2042
01:13:55,440 --> 01:13:57,360
data and that's another thing that we

2043
01:13:57,360 --> 01:14:00,000
gave to the consultants. Um

2044
01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:03,199
>> but to your point like infill is going

2045
01:14:03,199 --> 01:14:05,280
to be the cheapest, right? because

2046
01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:07,520
inherently you're just adding another

2047
01:14:07,520 --> 01:14:09,600
unit and you're not necessarily worrying

2048
01:14:09,600 --> 01:14:12,480
about um acquiring land, demoing

2049
01:14:12,480 --> 01:14:14,080
something, doing all that site work. So

2050
01:14:14,080 --> 01:14:16,800
to your point, infill kind of guides a

2051
01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:17,920
lot of the recommendations that I think

2052
01:14:17,920 --> 01:14:19,120
you'll see Thursday

2053
01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:21,360
>> and it overlaps because you're talking

2054
01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:23,120
about those cap [clears throat] captain

2055
01:14:23,120 --> 01:14:25,440
houses. Yeah, I I don't think I ever

2056
01:14:25,440 --> 01:14:27,199
envisioned like a new captain's house

2057
01:14:27,199 --> 01:14:28,719
per se. Like that was always kind of

2058
01:14:28,719 --> 01:14:30,719
like a conversion type thing that you

2059
01:14:30,719 --> 01:14:32,719
know you see in Mystic or you see you

2060
01:14:32,719 --> 01:14:33,920
know elsewhere that

2061
01:14:33,920 --> 01:14:34,800
>> Oh, okay. Thank you.

2062
01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:36,880
>> No, but I say one more thing. But then

2063
01:14:36,880 --> 01:14:39,360
you're talking you're really talking.

2064
01:14:39,360 --> 01:14:41,120
You're not talking the region.

2065
01:14:41,120 --> 01:14:42,719
>> Yes, I am talking about the region.

2066
01:14:42,719 --> 01:14:44,480
>> Okay. Because land costs and everything

2067
01:14:44,480 --> 01:14:44,880
of course.

2068
01:14:44,880 --> 01:14:45,920
>> Yep.

2069
01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:46,880
>> Or a lot less.

2070
01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:48,800
>> Yep. Okay. So, so

2071
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:52,159
>> I'm sorry and this is my last thing. I'm

2072
01:14:52,159 --> 01:14:55,199
sorry. Um, going back to the POCD, we

2073
01:14:55,199 --> 01:14:56,880
are going to focus on where the circles

2074
01:14:56,880 --> 01:15:00,239
are, right? And Deb's low hanging fruit

2075
01:15:00,239 --> 01:15:02,159
that you mentioned. Okay.

2076
01:15:02,159 --> 01:15:03,840
>> So, this slide right here, why missing

2077
01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:05,440
middle town goals? I kind of skipped

2078
01:15:05,440 --> 01:15:06,880
through the affordable housing plan. I

2079
01:15:06,880 --> 01:15:09,199
skipped through um I don't know,

2080
01:15:09,199 --> 01:15:11,120
something else that was in there. What

2081
01:15:11,120 --> 01:15:13,600
was it? Um, yeah, I guess that's

2082
01:15:13,600 --> 01:15:15,760
affordable housing plan. Old plan of

2083
01:15:15,760 --> 01:15:18,239
conservation development. Um, also just

2084
01:15:18,239 --> 01:15:19,920
as a side note, no more affordable

2085
01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:22,400
housing plans. just reminder because of

2086
01:15:22,400 --> 01:15:25,600
PA25-1. So I think this is still in

2087
01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:27,679
effect now until the regional plan comes

2088
01:15:27,679 --> 01:15:30,719
out, but this will soon have no bearing

2089
01:15:30,719 --> 01:15:32,880
at all on GR. But I wanted to put in at

2090
01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:34,640
least they were exploring middle housing

2091
01:15:34,640 --> 01:15:35,840
during that affordable housing plan,

2092
01:15:35,840 --> 01:15:38,880
right? Um but onto the newly adopted

2093
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:42,000
POC. Um as you can see, yeah, that was a

2094
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:43,360
lot of the focus right towards the end

2095
01:15:43,360 --> 01:15:44,640
there was figuring out the areas of

2096
01:15:44,640 --> 01:15:47,360
opportunity. Um, and so I think you'll

2097
01:15:47,360 --> 01:15:48,480
find that when we do the buildout

2098
01:15:48,480 --> 01:15:50,080
scenarios, it's going to align roughly

2099
01:15:50,080 --> 01:15:51,440
with those areas of opportunity that

2100
01:15:51,440 --> 01:15:52,560
just make sense to look at those

2101
01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:55,440
geographies. Um, as well as some of the

2102
01:15:55,440 --> 01:15:58,960
policies and strategies um, also really

2103
01:15:58,960 --> 01:16:00,719
touch on the importance of middle

2104
01:16:00,719 --> 01:16:02,400
housing, but also the importance of that

2105
01:16:02,400 --> 01:16:04,080
infill, the flexibility of housing,

2106
01:16:04,080 --> 01:16:07,440
right? Um, all right. Town preferences.

2107
01:16:07,440 --> 01:16:08,960
So, I I've probably said this a million

2108
01:16:08,960 --> 01:16:11,760
times, but up to this project and and

2109
01:16:11,760 --> 01:16:13,280
really why this project was kicked off

2110
01:16:13,280 --> 01:16:15,760
is because we did hear a lot about uh

2111
01:16:15,760 --> 01:16:17,520
the scale of multif family developments.

2112
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:19,040
And this isn't the only housing that we

2113
01:16:19,040 --> 01:16:21,040
should have, right? Um we don't

2114
01:16:21,040 --> 01:16:22,719
necessarily have to decide between a

2115
01:16:22,719 --> 01:16:25,280
detached single family home and a large

2116
01:16:25,280 --> 01:16:27,920
um dense apartment building. So, you

2117
01:16:27,920 --> 01:16:30,080
know, that is 100% one of the driving

2118
01:16:30,080 --> 01:16:31,520
forces behind this idea of middle

2119
01:16:31,520 --> 01:16:33,600
housing. Also, once we did that regional

2120
01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:36,480
housing study, Koine found not only the

2121
01:16:36,480 --> 01:16:38,560
number of units in the thousands, which

2122
01:16:38,560 --> 01:16:40,080
Sue to your point,

2123
01:16:40,080 --> 01:16:41,760
>> this estimate is going to inherently go

2124
01:16:41,760 --> 01:16:44,320
up because of the the increased hiring

2125
01:16:44,320 --> 01:16:46,320
projections that they have now, but also

2126
01:16:46,320 --> 01:16:48,239
what KO did in this one is actually

2127
01:16:48,239 --> 01:16:50,719
project the um desire for different

2128
01:16:50,719 --> 01:16:53,920
housing types and found that 65% of that

2129
01:16:53,920 --> 01:16:56,159
demand um both the low end and the high

2130
01:16:56,159 --> 01:16:59,040
end are in that middle density um

2131
01:16:59,040 --> 01:17:01,520
spectrum. in that we defined it as two

2132
01:17:01,520 --> 01:17:03,600
to 19 units. I think we'll probably end

2133
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:05,920
up I mean we're going to figure out

2134
01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:08,320
exactly how we define middle housing as

2135
01:17:08,320 --> 01:17:10,159
the recommendations and as forly Whitten

2136
01:17:10,159 --> 01:17:13,199
works with you um because you'll see

2137
01:17:13,199 --> 01:17:15,440
probably once you start hitting the once

2138
01:17:15,440 --> 01:17:18,080
the rubber hits the road on PA25-1 the

2139
01:17:18,080 --> 01:17:21,760
state defines middle housing in a very

2140
01:17:21,760 --> 01:17:23,679
strange way and it's not necessarily the

2141
01:17:23,679 --> 01:17:25,760
way that we would define it. So just for

2142
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:27,933
the sake of this it's 2 to 19 units.

2143
01:17:27,933 --> 01:17:29,520
[clears throat] Um that's a little bit

2144
01:17:29,520 --> 01:17:31,920
more on that. Um a note on

2145
01:17:31,920 --> 01:17:36,719
affordability. Um you know, none of this

2146
01:17:36,719 --> 01:17:39,840
in zoning is going to require a deed

2147
01:17:39,840 --> 01:17:42,640
restriction um to be affordable like you

2148
01:17:42,640 --> 01:17:45,360
would see on an 830g project, right? The

2149
01:17:45,360 --> 01:17:46,960
town currently doesn't have inclusionary

2150
01:17:46,960 --> 01:17:48,719
zoning, which is that mechanism. You

2151
01:17:48,719 --> 01:17:52,000
know, you build uh 50 units, 10% by

2152
01:17:52,000 --> 01:17:53,760
zoning needs to be affordable. We don't

2153
01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:56,239
have that mechanism in our zoning. Um

2154
01:17:56,239 --> 01:17:58,960
and so the best that we can do outside

2155
01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:00,719
of a nonprofit developer coming in and

2156
01:18:00,719 --> 01:18:03,280
developing 100% affordable um and again

2157
01:18:03,280 --> 01:18:05,120
because we're not subject to 830G which

2158
01:18:05,120 --> 01:18:07,840
can override local zoning is uh trying

2159
01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:09,360
to get at the attainable. So the

2160
01:18:09,360 --> 01:18:11,360
attainable housing meaning you know like

2161
01:18:11,360 --> 01:18:15,360
100 120% AMI, right? Like starter home

2162
01:18:15,360 --> 01:18:17,360
workforce housing type if you can kind

2163
01:18:17,360 --> 01:18:19,679
of think about it that way. Um that's

2164
01:18:19,679 --> 01:18:22,960
really what a lot of the the goals of

2165
01:18:22,960 --> 01:18:25,040
the recommendations have been shooting

2166
01:18:25,040 --> 01:18:31,120
for is that 120% um of AMI. Um and then

2167
01:18:31,120 --> 01:18:34,400
I will just quickly hit on this slide um

2168
01:18:34,400 --> 01:18:36,080
the impacts the different impacts that

2169
01:18:36,080 --> 01:18:37,679
can impact uh attainability or

2170
01:18:37,679 --> 01:18:40,480
affordability right so high land costs

2171
01:18:40,480 --> 01:18:42,400
like Sue said high building costs can

2172
01:18:42,400 --> 01:18:44,719
have a real impact on affordability um

2173
01:18:44,719 --> 01:18:47,920
or attainability permitting costs um on

2174
01:18:47,920 --> 01:18:49,840
some respects in some places can for

2175
01:18:49,840 --> 01:18:52,320
sure um the size of the home and then

2176
01:18:52,320 --> 01:18:53,840
site requirements such as parking

2177
01:18:53,840 --> 01:18:56,960
amenities and storm water right um so

2178
01:18:56,960 --> 01:18:58,400
this is that attainability calculator

2179
01:18:58,400 --> 01:19:02,400
that I was talking about. It's really, cool. They actually built this.

2180
01:19:02,400 --> 01:19:04,080
Kronberg Urbanist and Architects built

2181
01:19:04,080 --> 01:19:05,600
this for us and then created a

2182
01:19:05,600 --> 01:19:08,239
nationwide one for just anybody after.

2183
01:19:08,239 --> 01:19:10,239
So, if you're ever interested, um I

2184
01:19:10,239 --> 01:19:12,800
think I linked to it on the website, um

2185
01:19:12,800 --> 01:19:15,120
our website to learn more. Um but you

2186
01:19:15,120 --> 01:19:16,719
can just put any zip code you want in

2187
01:19:16,719 --> 01:19:18,560
and it'll kind of spit out the same

2188
01:19:18,560 --> 01:19:20,560
information. But what this attainability

2189
01:19:20,560 --> 01:19:22,320
calculator does, and I'll go over in a

2190
01:19:22,320 --> 01:19:23,600
little bit more detail later in the

2191
01:19:23,600 --> 01:19:26,560
presentation, is it really breaks down

2192
01:19:26,560 --> 01:19:28,800
all those costs. So we look at square

2193
01:19:28,800 --> 01:19:32,480
foot, we look at vertical costs, right?

2194
01:19:32,480 --> 01:19:36,400
Um all the way through land costs um you

2195
01:19:36,400 --> 01:19:39,280
know if the land is owned outright or if

2196
01:19:39,280 --> 01:19:41,360
a community land trust owns the land and

2197
01:19:41,360 --> 01:19:43,520
then varying housing types. So small

2198
01:19:43,520 --> 01:19:46,080
little format cottages versus duplex

2199
01:19:46,080 --> 01:19:48,880
versus triplex and how all of that can

2200
01:19:48,880 --> 01:19:51,600
combine to either create unaffordable

2201
01:19:51,600 --> 01:19:53,840
housing or you know very high-end market

2202
01:19:53,840 --> 01:19:57,120
rate housing or more attainable housing.

2203
01:19:57,120 --> 01:19:58,880
So, I'm going to skip this question.

2204
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:00,239
Forgive me because I'm going to try to

2205
01:20:00,239 --> 01:20:02,800
get through this next part. Um, we've

2206
01:20:02,800 --> 01:20:04,640
gone through a lot of this already, so

2207
01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:06,400
I'm just going to touch on it. Barriers

2208
01:20:06,400 --> 01:20:08,560
to middle housing historically have been

2209
01:20:08,560 --> 01:20:10,800
zoning, have been building, fire codes,

2210
01:20:10,800 --> 01:20:12,640
and other codes that dictate housing

2211
01:20:12,640 --> 01:20:15,199
development, federal policies, and local

2212
01:20:15,199 --> 01:20:18,480
opposition. Um, I will just stop here

2213
01:20:18,480 --> 01:20:21,280
really quick to say when you look at our

2214
01:20:21,280 --> 01:20:24,640
stock in this town of middle housing,

2215
01:20:24,640 --> 01:20:25,920
um, what you would consider middle

2216
01:20:25,920 --> 01:20:29,280
housing today, I think the average age

2217
01:20:29,280 --> 01:20:32,800
of that housing is just about 90 to 100

2218
01:20:32,800 --> 01:20:35,120
years old. So, a lot of it was built

2219
01:20:35,120 --> 01:20:38,640
during that preWorld War II um kind of

2220
01:20:38,640 --> 01:20:41,760
on the tail end of the industrialization

2221
01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:45,840
and kind of factory kind of um economic

2222
01:20:45,840 --> 01:20:48,640
drivers of New England. Um and so that

2223
01:20:48,640 --> 01:20:50,800
can see you can from that deduce that

2224
01:20:50,800 --> 01:20:53,280
real drop off um from that

2225
01:20:53,280 --> 01:20:56,400
suburbanization period, this the kind of

2226
01:20:56,400 --> 01:20:58,159
building of the suburbs of World War II,

2227
01:20:58,159 --> 01:21:00,480
right? Post World War II GI Bill. I I'd

2228
01:21:00,480 --> 01:21:02,080
love to see the background or the

2229
01:21:02,080 --> 01:21:03,679
details of that number.

2230
01:21:03,679 --> 01:21:05,360
>> Yeah. Yeah. [clears throat]

2231
01:21:05,360 --> 01:21:07,760
Um so zoning which is kind of the

2232
01:21:07,760 --> 01:21:10,320
purview of this and this is just going

2233
01:21:10,320 --> 01:21:13,120
to go through um kind of how it went

2234
01:21:13,120 --> 01:21:16,560
missing. So it within zoning really it's

2235
01:21:16,560 --> 01:21:18,320
your use regulations, your dimensional

2236
01:21:18,320 --> 01:21:20,960
regulations, your use conditions. So,

2237
01:21:20,960 --> 01:21:22,800
we've talked a lot about kind of or at

2238
01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:24,800
least in that last public meeting, we

2239
01:21:24,800 --> 01:21:26,800
talked a lot about how in our conditions

2240
01:21:26,800 --> 01:21:29,040
for for multi-unit housing, we consider

2241
01:21:29,040 --> 01:21:30,640
everything from three units all the way

2242
01:21:30,640 --> 01:21:33,120
up to 200 units the same in terms of the

2243
01:21:33,120 --> 01:21:36,719
conditions we require them. So, that's a an example of how use

2244
01:21:36,719 --> 01:21:38,400
conditions might impact um

2245
01:21:38,400 --> 01:21:41,440
attainability. And then parking um just

2246
01:21:41,440 --> 01:21:44,960
couple high-end or top level things. Um

2247
01:21:44,960 --> 01:21:47,040
so, you know, just an example, the use

2248
01:21:47,040 --> 01:21:48,640
regulations, dimensional regulations.

2249
01:21:48,640 --> 01:21:50,239
You guys have all seen this before.

2250
01:21:50,239 --> 01:21:52,960
you're singing like it's a bad thing.

2251
01:21:52,960 --> 01:21:55,280
>> I no I am a neutral arbiter at this

2252
01:21:55,280 --> 01:21:56,719
point in time.

2253
01:21:56,719 --> 01:21:58,800
>> Um and [clears throat] then I'm gonna

2254
01:21:58,800 --> 01:22:01,360
for the the sake of of this presentation

2255
01:22:01,360 --> 01:22:02,960
in time, I'm going to kind of skip

2256
01:22:02,960 --> 01:22:07,440
through this, but this and and I will um

2257
01:22:07,440 --> 01:22:09,760
post this exact presentation online and

2258
01:22:09,760 --> 01:22:11,360
send it out to you guys to review more

2259
01:22:11,360 --> 01:22:12,639
in detail for some of these slides that

2260
01:22:12,639 --> 01:22:14,960
we've kind of had to jump through. Um,

2261
01:22:14,960 --> 01:22:17,120
but this slide's really good at just

2262
01:22:17,120 --> 01:22:20,400
looking exactly at specific specifically

2263
01:22:20,400 --> 01:22:22,719
residential code and um, you know,

2264
01:22:22,719 --> 01:22:24,400
international building code and just

2265
01:22:24,400 --> 01:22:26,239
kind of delineating all the different

2266
01:22:26,239 --> 01:22:27,679
requirements and how that might ladder

2267
01:22:27,679 --> 01:22:29,920
up to more expensive housing or or more

2268
01:22:29,920 --> 01:22:31,440
attainable housing. On the the flip

2269
01:22:31,440 --> 01:22:34,159
side, um, federal policies decisions

2270
01:22:34,159 --> 01:22:35,760
definitely have had an impact, but for

2271
01:22:35,760 --> 01:22:37,040
the sake of this presentation, we're

2272
01:22:37,040 --> 01:22:38,960
going to jump right through local

2273
01:22:38,960 --> 01:22:41,120
opposition. Obviously amongst, you know,

2274
01:22:41,120 --> 01:22:42,800
any form of housing, local opposition

2275
01:22:42,800 --> 01:22:45,040
plays um a big factor in if things get

2276
01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:47,920
built or don't get built, right?

2277
01:22:47,920 --> 01:22:48,400
>> Sorry.

2278
01:22:48,400 --> 01:22:49,360
>> Yep.

2279
01:22:49,360 --> 01:22:50,800
>> Am I supposed to know what cave banana

2280
01:22:50,800 --> 01:22:51,360
note means?

2281
01:22:51,360 --> 01:22:53,199
>> No, only John Ryder knows those. No, he

2282
01:22:53,199 --> 01:22:54,880
comes up, he finds the new acronyms and

2283
01:22:54,880 --> 01:22:56,400
feeds them down to us and we got to

2284
01:22:56,400 --> 01:22:59,120
learn them real quick. So cave is

2285
01:22:59,120 --> 01:23:01,520
>> citizens against virtually everything.

2286
01:23:01,520 --> 01:23:04,400
Banana build absolutely nothing anywhere

2287
01:23:04,400 --> 01:23:07,360
near anything. Note is not over there

2288
01:23:07,360 --> 01:23:08,537
either.

2289
01:23:08,537 --> 01:23:08,719
>> [laughter]

2290
01:23:08,719 --> 01:23:11,840
>> Yeah. So I, you know, there's an acronym

2291
01:23:11,840 --> 01:23:12,960
for everything and then there's new

2292
01:23:12,960 --> 01:23:14,400
acronyms for the same thing.

2293
01:23:14,400 --> 01:23:15,280
>> Heard of Nimby?

2294
01:23:15,280 --> 01:23:16,639
>> You've heard of NIMBI, but have you

2295
01:23:16,639 --> 01:23:17,840
heard of banana?

2296
01:23:17,840 --> 01:23:20,982
>> Banana. I'm gonna I kind of have to

2297
01:23:20,982 --> 01:23:21,840
[laughter]

2298
01:23:21,840 --> 01:23:23,920
>> um So you guys know the

2299
01:23:23,920 --> 01:23:25,840
>> You guys know the consultants. You

2300
01:23:25,840 --> 01:23:28,800
basically, you know, at this point, this

2301
01:23:28,800 --> 01:23:30,960
is it's kind of laggy. You know what

2302
01:23:30,960 --> 01:23:32,480
this this project's hoping to

2303
01:23:32,480 --> 01:23:33,920
accomplish. So we've already done a lot

2304
01:23:33,920 --> 01:23:35,679
of the spreading of the awareness of

2305
01:23:35,679 --> 01:23:37,600
what missing middle housing is. that you

2306
01:23:37,600 --> 01:23:38,719
know I mean the [clears throat]

2307
01:23:38,719 --> 01:23:40,159
community at large probably didn't

2308
01:23:40,159 --> 01:23:41,679
really know what this topic meant but

2309
01:23:41,679 --> 01:23:43,040
once you kind of show it you're like oh

2310
01:23:43,040 --> 01:23:44,880
yeah duplex triplex like the stuff we

2311
01:23:44,880 --> 01:23:47,679
got over no ink mystic quantic bridge

2312
01:23:47,679 --> 01:23:50,320
you know um so showing what the

2313
01:23:50,320 --> 01:23:51,840
community showing the community what

2314
01:23:51,840 --> 01:23:53,920
these housing types look like listening

2315
01:23:53,920 --> 01:23:55,760
to the community about what missing

2316
01:23:55,760 --> 01:23:57,120
metal housing types are the most

2317
01:23:57,120 --> 01:23:59,840
desirable to pursue um ensuring

2318
01:23:59,840 --> 01:24:01,679
alignment with the town zoning with

2319
01:24:01,679 --> 01:24:04,239
various other codes that may inhibit

2320
01:24:04,239 --> 01:24:06,480
development so that's really you know

2321
01:24:06,480 --> 01:24:08,639
again to the point of the consultants

2322
01:24:08,639 --> 01:24:10,639
aren't going to recommend anything that

2323
01:24:10,639 --> 01:24:12,639
building code doesn't allow you to do,

2324
01:24:12,639 --> 01:24:14,159
right? Because that's a waste of all of

2325
01:24:14,159 --> 01:24:17,040
our time. And then at what stage we're

2326
01:24:17,040 --> 01:24:18,960
at now is potentially amending the town

2327
01:24:18,960 --> 01:24:20,800
zoning regulations to allow more housing

2328
01:24:20,800 --> 01:24:22,560
options.

2329
01:24:22,560 --> 01:24:24,960
So the website, I don't know how many

2330
01:24:24,960 --> 01:24:26,320
people have really interacted with this

2331
01:24:26,320 --> 01:24:28,719
website. I post literally everything

2332
01:24:28,719 --> 01:24:30,719
onto it. Um so it's a real treasure

2333
01:24:30,719 --> 01:24:33,280
trove even if you want to um catch back

2334
01:24:33,280 --> 01:24:36,800
up. Um, so that was a big deliverable

2335
01:24:36,800 --> 01:24:39,360
that was a big part of of how we can get

2336
01:24:39,360 --> 01:24:40,880
the word out on these deliverables. And

2337
01:24:40,880 --> 01:24:42,159
then I'm just going to nail through all

2338
01:24:42,159 --> 01:24:44,400
the deliverables. We've done 2025

2339
01:24:44,400 --> 01:24:46,080
regional housing demand and supply

2340
01:24:46,080 --> 01:24:48,159
study. We've we've gone at this one at

2341
01:24:48,159 --> 01:24:50,480
nauseium at this point. Um, I think

2342
01:24:50,480 --> 01:24:52,480
everyone's got a hard copy. Fenty, I've

2343
01:24:52,480 --> 01:24:54,560
got your hard copy. So, as soon as

2344
01:24:54,560 --> 01:24:56,080
you're in person next time, just ask me

2345
01:24:56,080 --> 01:24:57,920
and I'll give it to you. Um, but there's

2346
01:24:57,920 --> 01:25:00,400
some really great stuff in that. And

2347
01:25:00,400 --> 01:25:02,159
that also really integrated a lot of

2348
01:25:02,159 --> 01:25:03,760
feedback we've heard from the last

2349
01:25:03,760 --> 01:25:05,840
couple housing studies that we've done.

2350
01:25:05,840 --> 01:25:09,040
Um the missing middle housing inventory

2351
01:25:09,040 --> 01:25:10,800
um which I thought was a really great

2352
01:25:10,800 --> 01:25:13,600
first step um to to getting an idea of

2353
01:25:13,600 --> 01:25:15,760
what we already had. The opportunity

2354
01:25:15,760 --> 01:25:18,560
sites. So here's the the famous Kevin

2355
01:25:18,560 --> 01:25:20,800
Fiftol opportunity site of a captain's

2356
01:25:20,800 --> 01:25:24,000
house with two ADUs. Um I think it looks

2357
01:25:24,000 --> 01:25:25,760
rather nice. Are you interested?

2358
01:25:25,760 --> 01:25:26,880
>> I want to make a million dollars.

2359
01:25:26,880 --> 01:25:28,159
>> You want to make a million dollars?

2360
01:25:28,159 --> 01:25:29,679
Well, you got your book coming up, so

2361
01:25:29,679 --> 01:25:30,960
maybe you'll have some extra cash.

2362
01:25:30,960 --> 01:25:32,320
>> Well, that's the movie. But

2363
01:25:32,320 --> 01:25:35,440
>> yeah. Um, so again, the opportunity

2364
01:25:35,440 --> 01:25:38,560
sites were really meant to take those housing types and show what they

2365
01:25:38,560 --> 01:25:40,320
would look like on a kind of like a, you

2366
01:25:40,320 --> 01:25:41,920
know, a fancy little site plan, right?

2367
01:25:41,920 --> 01:25:43,840
How that site could actually look. Um,

2368
01:25:43,840 --> 01:25:46,560
again, completely hypothetical. Um, just

2369
01:25:46,560 --> 01:25:47,920
taking different sites throughout town

2370
01:25:47,920 --> 01:25:49,040
based on their qualities of

2371
01:25:49,040 --> 01:25:51,679
redevelopment, new development, um, town

2372
01:25:51,679 --> 01:25:53,920
owned properties, things like that.

2373
01:25:53,920 --> 01:25:56,400
Walking tours. Um, I thought they all

2374
01:25:56,400 --> 01:25:58,159
went pretty well. I think each got

2375
01:25:58,159 --> 01:26:00,159
better as we went on and kind of learned

2376
01:26:00,159 --> 01:26:02,560
more. Um, our last one was in July in

2377
01:26:02,560 --> 01:26:04,719
the city of Graten. If you haven't if

2378
01:26:04,719 --> 01:26:06,800
you weren't able to attend that one, I

2379
01:26:06,800 --> 01:26:08,719
do have the virtual tour up on the

2380
01:26:08,719 --> 01:26:15,280
website now. Um, that one was during the fires. It was a little spooky. Um,

2381
01:26:15,280 --> 01:26:18,159
>> yeah. Um, and then of course we had the

2382
01:26:18,159 --> 01:26:20,719
opportunity sites public meeting um,

2383
01:26:20,719 --> 01:26:22,880
back in March and then our last public

2384
01:26:22,880 --> 01:26:25,440
meeting which I'm going to plug now if

2385
01:26:25,440 --> 01:26:27,120
you guys haven't looked at the virtual

2386
01:26:27,120 --> 01:26:33,040
open house or if you weren't able to to check out what was in that, please, please go to the website if you

2387
01:26:33,040 --> 01:26:35,679
have time between today and Thursday to

2388
01:26:35,679 --> 01:26:37,440
check out what those approaches and

2389
01:26:37,440 --> 01:26:39,760
tools were. Um, because that really

2390
01:26:39,760 --> 01:26:42,239
formed kind of the basis of what these

2391
01:26:42,239 --> 01:26:43,760
workshops are going to look like. All

2392
01:26:43,760 --> 01:26:45,040
right. And I'll go into a little bit

2393
01:26:45,040 --> 01:26:46,320
more detail with that, but that's just

2394
01:26:46,320 --> 01:26:47,920
my plug. I'll probably say it one or two

2395
01:26:47,920 --> 01:26:49,360
more times. Please, please, please go to

2396
01:26:49,360 --> 01:26:51,679
the virtual open house.

2397
01:26:51,679 --> 01:26:53,360
>> That's in the which site?

2398
01:26:53,360 --> 01:26:54,719
>> That's on the missing middle housing

2399
01:26:54,719 --> 01:26:56,880
like hub site. Um, so not greater

2400
01:26:56,880 --> 01:26:58,159
graten, but you can get to it from

2401
01:26:58,159 --> 01:26:59,679
greater graten, right?

2402
01:26:59,679 --> 01:27:01,600
>> It's not always easy to find.

2403
01:27:01,600 --> 01:27:02,880
>> Yeah, that's the easiest way to get it.

2404
01:27:02,880 --> 01:27:04,400
>> It's probably the easiest way to get it.

2405
01:27:04,400 --> 01:27:06,159
It's also in my email signature. If

2406
01:27:06,159 --> 01:27:08,320
you've ever gotten an email from me,

2407
01:27:08,320 --> 01:27:10,080
this website's in the email signature.

2408
01:27:10,080 --> 01:27:11,199
>> Send us a blank email. So,

2409
01:27:11,199 --> 01:27:12,719
>> I will send you all a blank email.

2410
01:27:12,719 --> 01:27:15,280
>> Yeah. BCC so we don't start a meeting.

2411
01:27:15,280 --> 01:27:15,679
>> Great.

2412
01:27:15,679 --> 01:27:16,560
>> Okay.

2413
01:27:16,560 --> 01:27:19,360
>> Um, draft executive report. So, this was

2414
01:27:19,360 --> 01:27:23,920
basically Horsey Whitten as part of the the grant had to kind of do a

2415
01:27:23,920 --> 01:27:25,600
executive report kind of doing what I'm

2416
01:27:25,600 --> 01:27:26,960
doing tonight, right? Recapping

2417
01:27:26,960 --> 01:27:28,800
everything and then where we go next

2418
01:27:28,800 --> 01:27:30,560
before their final report which is due

2419
01:27:30,560 --> 01:27:33,440
in December. Um, housing attainability

2420
01:27:33,440 --> 01:27:35,040
explorer. So, that's on the website.

2421
01:27:35,040 --> 01:27:37,920
Okay. So, check that out. Um, I forget

2422
01:27:37,920 --> 01:27:39,840
what tab it's on but it'll be attainable

2423
01:27:39,840 --> 01:27:41,360
attainability explorer. You'll drop it

2424
01:27:41,360 --> 01:27:43,280
down. It's interactive. You can click on

2425
01:27:43,280 --> 01:27:45,199
whatever you want. You can play with it.

2426
01:27:45,199 --> 01:27:47,440
I pulled in the actual home design. So,

2427
01:27:47,440 --> 01:27:48,800
you can look at what these houses and

2428
01:27:48,800 --> 01:27:50,400
the formats actually look like while you

2429
01:27:50,400 --> 01:27:51,840
play with it. But it's a really

2430
01:27:51,840 --> 01:27:53,520
interesting, you know, Sue to your

2431
01:27:53,520 --> 01:27:55,199
point, kind of playing with costs and

2432
01:27:55,199 --> 01:27:57,280
seeing how, you know, what mixture of

2433
01:27:57,280 --> 01:27:59,840
what could actually get us um attainable

2434
01:27:59,840 --> 01:28:01,360
housing potentially at a scale that

2435
01:28:01,360 --> 01:28:04,000
actually helps, right? Questions. I'm

2436
01:28:04,000 --> 01:28:05,840
going to skip that one if I can and then

2437
01:28:05,840 --> 01:28:07,840
go right into the organization of these

2438
01:28:07,840 --> 01:28:10,719
workshops. So, um I think we've kind of

2439
01:28:10,719 --> 01:28:12,320
mentioned it, but the workshops are

2440
01:28:12,320 --> 01:28:14,159
going to be organized into uh three

2441
01:28:14,159 --> 01:28:17,040
tiers or buckets. Um the first one is

2442
01:28:17,040 --> 01:28:19,520
going to kind of be lowhangingish fruit

2443
01:28:19,520 --> 01:28:22,159
stuff that's not super super complicated

2444
01:28:22,159 --> 01:28:23,760
stuff that you know a tweak here and

2445
01:28:23,760 --> 01:28:25,679
there can have meaningful impact. Um

2446
01:28:25,679 --> 01:28:26,800
we're definitely going to go through

2447
01:28:26,800 --> 01:28:28,159
cottage communities because that's

2448
01:28:28,159 --> 01:28:29,840
something that we heard constantly from

2449
01:28:29,840 --> 01:28:31,920
the community. Want this? Why aren't we

2450
01:28:31,920 --> 01:28:34,239
getting them? Um, and then it's going to

2451
01:28:34,239 --> 01:28:36,560
probably brooch into, you know, what

2452
01:28:36,560 --> 01:28:38,159
slight changes could we make to

2453
01:28:38,159 --> 01:28:40,880
multi-unit housing conditions to make

2454
01:28:40,880 --> 01:28:42,639
specifically middle housing a little bit

2455
01:28:42,639 --> 01:28:45,520
easier to create. Um but that that tier

2456
01:28:45,520 --> 01:28:47,760
one which is Thursday is going to be you

2457
01:28:47,760 --> 01:28:49,440
know definitely less challenging than

2458
01:28:49,440 --> 01:28:52,480
the the workshop you know in in November

2459
01:28:52,480 --> 01:28:54,880
which is that that third bucket which

2460
01:28:54,880 --> 01:28:56,639
it's going to probably be more

2461
01:28:56,639 --> 01:28:58,800
complicated in terms of sections of the

2462
01:28:58,800 --> 01:29:00,719
zoning that would have to get changed to

2463
01:29:00,719 --> 01:29:03,120
make everything consistent and a little

2464
01:29:03,120 --> 01:29:05,520
bit different ways of looking at things.

2465
01:29:05,520 --> 01:29:08,239
Um, but nothing in these workshops

2466
01:29:08,239 --> 01:29:11,760
really are a surprise from kind of the

2467
01:29:11,760 --> 01:29:14,080
tools and approaches public meeting and

2468
01:29:14,080 --> 01:29:15,600
things we've been talking about. There's

2469
01:29:15,600 --> 01:29:18,320
really no curve balls in anything. Um,

2470
01:29:18,320 --> 01:29:19,760
>> Thursday's meeting this year.

2471
01:29:19,760 --> 01:29:23,600
>> Thursday's meeting is here 5:00.

2472
01:29:23,600 --> 01:29:24,960
>> There will be

2473
01:29:24,960 --> 01:29:26,080
>> Yeah, that's my understanding.

2474
01:29:26,080 --> 01:29:28,960
>> There will be food. Um,

2475
01:29:28,960 --> 01:29:30,159
>> 5 to 7 here, right?

2476
01:29:30,159 --> 01:29:32,480
>> 5 to 7. That will be uh that meeting

2477
01:29:32,480 --> 01:29:34,960
will be driven by Jeff at Corps and

2478
01:29:34,960 --> 01:29:36,480
Whiten. So, he's going to be leading

2479
01:29:36,480 --> 01:29:38,159
that meeting. We're all going to be here

2480
01:29:38,159 --> 01:29:39,520
though to to help.

2481
01:29:39,520 --> 01:29:41,520
>> And is that a cut off? Do we stop at 7

2482
01:29:41,520 --> 01:29:42,639
o'clock?

2483
01:29:42,639 --> 01:29:44,400
>> That's the game plan. Yeah. Okay.

2484
01:29:44,400 --> 01:29:47,040
>> Yeah. Yeah. And we want one form or

2485
01:29:47,040 --> 01:29:47,679
another.

2486
01:29:47,679 --> 01:29:50,560
>> Yes. Yes. And I I if I had to guess, you

2487
01:29:50,560 --> 01:29:51,760
know, you know, Jeff, he's probably

2488
01:29:51,760 --> 01:29:53,360
going to give you homework

2489
01:29:53,360 --> 01:29:55,679
>> like the PCD, right? Special meetings.

2490
01:29:55,679 --> 01:29:57,440
There's there might be some outstanding

2491
01:29:57,440 --> 01:29:58,320
things

2492
01:29:58,320 --> 01:29:59,120
>> for next time.

2493
01:29:59,120 --> 01:30:00,560
>> Yes. Yes. Exactly. Um,

2494
01:30:00,560 --> 01:30:02,800
>> that was our homework, right? The PMC.

2495
01:30:02,800 --> 01:30:04,800
>> I know. I know. And and again, the

2496
01:30:04,800 --> 01:30:08,159
workshops we need to do for the grant.

2497
01:30:08,159 --> 01:30:10,639
That doesn't mean that if you guys have

2498
01:30:10,639 --> 01:30:14,159
lingering questions past December,

2499
01:30:14,159 --> 01:30:16,400
that's not a problem, right? We can we

2500
01:30:16,400 --> 01:30:18,080
can continue to workshop this and work

2501
01:30:18,080 --> 01:30:19,920
on this, but we just have to for this

2502
01:30:19,920 --> 01:30:22,480
grant cycle get through all these

2503
01:30:22,480 --> 01:30:24,159
recommendations, right?

2504
01:30:24,159 --> 01:30:26,000
>> So, only planning and zoning members are

2505
01:30:26,000 --> 01:30:27,920
participating in these workshops.

2506
01:30:27,920 --> 01:30:30,000
>> That's the idea. So,

2507
01:30:30,000 --> 01:30:32,000
working very much like the seven brew

2508
01:30:32,000 --> 01:30:34,560
workshop that we had just before. Um

2509
01:30:34,560 --> 01:30:36,400
except instead of the applicant or the

2510
01:30:36,400 --> 01:30:37,840
attorney, it's going to be Jeff and then

2511
01:30:37,840 --> 01:30:39,679
we're just going to be chatting, right?

2512
01:30:39,679 --> 01:30:43,600
Um but you know, it's it's going to all

2513
01:30:43,600 --> 01:30:45,679
be posted. People can comment, send

2514
01:30:45,679 --> 01:30:47,520
emails to us, and we can filter it

2515
01:30:47,520 --> 01:30:49,120
through as well. Um,

2516
01:30:49,120 --> 01:30:51,920
>> yeah. I guess I I I just think that some

2517
01:30:51,920 --> 01:30:53,360
recommendations that could or should

2518
01:30:53,360 --> 01:30:55,520
come out wouldn't be within our

2519
01:30:55,520 --> 01:30:59,199
authority, but having those who would

2520
01:30:59,199 --> 01:31:00,800
then promulgate them should probably

2521
01:31:00,800 --> 01:31:02,719
have some kind of bit of a conversation

2522
01:31:02,719 --> 01:31:04,400
before a formal recommendation's made.

2523
01:31:04,400 --> 01:31:05,679
>> We're going to be focusing on things

2524
01:31:05,679 --> 01:31:08,560
that that are your

2525
01:31:08,560 --> 01:31:09,199
thinking.

2526
01:31:09,199 --> 01:31:09,520
>> Yeah.

2527
01:31:09,520 --> 01:31:10,800
>> Right. But then we'll have a public

2528
01:31:10,800 --> 01:31:13,040
hearing anyway, right? Eventually,

2529
01:31:13,040 --> 01:31:15,120
>> will we eventually have a public hearing

2530
01:31:15,120 --> 01:31:16,960
to go Yeah. forward.

2531
01:31:16,960 --> 01:31:18,560
>> Basically, whatever you guys are

2532
01:31:18,560 --> 01:31:20,400
interested in pursuing,

2533
01:31:20,400 --> 01:31:23,040
>> we could then put together a formal

2534
01:31:23,040 --> 01:31:25,920
application probably in 2027, right? But

2535
01:31:25,920 --> 01:31:28,080
nothing nothing that would, you know,

2536
01:31:28,080 --> 01:31:29,760
trigger a public hearing or anything

2537
01:31:29,760 --> 01:31:31,440
like that. Like no no application's

2538
01:31:31,440 --> 01:31:33,280
going to be brought to you guys this

2539
01:31:33,280 --> 01:31:35,280
year as part of this grant. My my point

2540
01:31:35,280 --> 01:31:37,280
being specifically with the council,

2541
01:31:37,280 --> 01:31:38,800
right, if there was a policy decision

2542
01:31:38,800 --> 01:31:40,480
that we thought the council should

2543
01:31:40,480 --> 01:31:43,040
really pursue or appropriations for

2544
01:31:43,040 --> 01:31:45,040
certain types of subsidy, right? Those

2545
01:31:45,040 --> 01:31:46,880
are the things that I would think the

2546
01:31:46,880 --> 01:31:47,920
>> tax incentives.

2547
01:31:47,920 --> 01:31:49,280
>> Yeah. So, the council should have be

2548
01:31:49,280 --> 01:31:51,280
part of that conversation. So, there are

2549
01:31:51,280 --> 01:31:54,159
recommendations that Jeff will touch on

2550
01:31:54,159 --> 01:31:58,320
that are not in your purview, but are a

2551
01:31:58,320 --> 01:32:01,040
smart thing to start thinking about as a

2552
01:32:01,040 --> 01:32:04,239
town. And some of them are would be

2553
01:32:04,239 --> 01:32:06,000
within the council's purview, but

2554
01:32:06,000 --> 01:32:07,280
they're going to be presented to you.

2555
01:32:07,280 --> 01:32:09,199
You're just not necessarily going to

2556
01:32:09,199 --> 01:32:10,480
have the power to do anything with them,

2557
01:32:10,480 --> 01:32:10,880
right?

2558
01:32:10,880 --> 01:32:13,520
>> Can we formally invite council members

2559
01:32:13,520 --> 01:32:15,280
to these meetings understanding that

2560
01:32:15,280 --> 01:32:16,960
they're [laughter]

2561
01:32:16,960 --> 01:32:18,000
>> understanding that there might be some

2562
01:32:18,000 --> 01:32:19,360
overlap with their own meetings?

2563
01:32:19,360 --> 01:32:21,120
>> Yeah. Um, but I think that that's

2564
01:32:21,120 --> 01:32:22,960
important for them to, you know,

2565
01:32:22,960 --> 01:32:24,400
>> I think we should invite the whole

2566
01:32:24,400 --> 01:32:24,880
council.

2567
01:32:24,880 --> 01:32:25,920
>> Absolutely. The entire council of

2568
01:32:25,920 --> 01:32:26,080
course,

2569
01:32:26,080 --> 01:32:27,280
>> right? I mean, why not?

2570
01:32:27,280 --> 01:32:28,960
>> I want the entire council here

2571
01:32:28,960 --> 01:32:30,000
>> and not talk and listen.

2572
01:32:30,000 --> 01:32:30,960
>> 48 hours.

2573
01:32:30,960 --> 01:32:32,320
>> But, and I don't mean this

2574
01:32:32,320 --> 01:32:34,320
disrespectfully, but like

2575
01:32:34,320 --> 01:32:37,120
>> the zoning stuff, that's your baiff,

2576
01:32:37,120 --> 01:32:38,800
right? It's important for everyone to

2577
01:32:38,800 --> 01:32:40,880
listen, but like in terms of getting

2578
01:32:40,880 --> 01:32:43,440
through the meetings. Yeah. Like it

2579
01:32:43,440 --> 01:32:45,840
that's why we can't have just like you

2580
01:32:45,840 --> 01:32:49,199
know public hearing public hearing as private workshops.

2581
01:32:49,199 --> 01:32:49,840
Right.

2582
01:32:49,840 --> 01:32:51,360
>> The thing with like the formal

2583
01:32:51,360 --> 01:32:53,920
invitation is that sure anyone could

2584
01:32:53,920 --> 01:32:55,600
show up but does anyone really think to

2585
01:32:55,600 --> 01:32:57,120
do it unless you're like hey I'd like

2586
01:32:57,120 --> 01:32:57,840
you to be there.

2587
01:32:57,840 --> 01:32:58,239
>> Yep.

2588
01:32:58,239 --> 01:32:58,639
>> Right.

2589
01:32:58,639 --> 01:33:00,639
>> Yep. And we'll make sure that Jeff

2590
01:33:00,639 --> 01:33:04,560
really kind of parses out the stuff that you know is good for you guys to

2591
01:33:04,560 --> 01:33:06,719
see but but the responsibility would be

2592
01:33:06,719 --> 01:33:07,760
elsewhere.

2593
01:33:07,760 --> 01:33:10,239
>> Right. Um

2594
01:33:10,239 --> 01:33:13,040
okay. Yeah. non-binding informal

2595
01:33:13,040 --> 01:33:16,480
conversations. Um, so I've kind of done

2596
01:33:16,480 --> 01:33:18,960
a fall schedule because this is getting

2597
01:33:18,960 --> 01:33:21,760
kind of tight, right? So tonight

2598
01:33:21,760 --> 01:33:23,840
obviously regular PCC meeting recap

2599
01:33:23,840 --> 01:33:26,560
presentation. Thursday workshop on tier

2600
01:33:26,560 --> 01:33:28,960
one recommendations, regular meeting on

2601
01:33:28,960 --> 01:33:33,040
October 13th. Next that next Thursday um

2602
01:33:33,040 --> 01:33:36,400
October 22nd is that second tier of

2603
01:33:36,400 --> 01:33:38,400
recommendations and then a couple

2604
01:33:38,400 --> 01:33:41,440
regular PCC meetings. The last workshop

2605
01:33:41,440 --> 01:33:46,639
is going to be um uh November 19th and

2606
01:33:46,639 --> 01:33:49,440
then we're hoping we drop dead date is

2607
01:33:49,440 --> 01:33:52,000
December 31st for the final report and

2608
01:33:52,000 --> 01:33:54,320
everything due to the grant funders.

2609
01:33:54,320 --> 01:33:56,239
We're probably going to get stuff a

2610
01:33:56,239 --> 01:33:58,080
little bit early because people are

2611
01:33:58,080 --> 01:34:00,880
going out on holiday and whatnot. Um and

2612
01:34:00,880 --> 01:34:03,600
then in early 2027

2613
01:34:03,600 --> 01:34:07,040
that formal application if desired, we

2614
01:34:07,040 --> 01:34:08,719
could begin working on something like

2615
01:34:08,719 --> 01:34:10,880
that. Right. and that could have more uh

2616
01:34:10,880 --> 01:34:13,360
more workshops and whatnot. I do want to

2617
01:34:13,360 --> 01:34:14,880
say we're still working on a community

2618
01:34:14,880 --> 01:34:16,159
conversation that's kind of around

2619
01:34:16,159 --> 01:34:19,040
housing. The scheduling has just been a

2620
01:34:19,040 --> 01:34:21,199
real mess. So that could happen in

2621
01:34:21,199 --> 01:34:22,000
December.

2622
01:34:22,000 --> 01:34:25,280
>> Could is there the ability to move that

2623
01:34:25,280 --> 01:34:27,360
tier three up in the schedule just

2624
01:34:27,360 --> 01:34:28,880
because if that's going to be more of

2625
01:34:28,880 --> 01:34:31,760
the complicated I can imagine us wanting

2626
01:34:31,760 --> 01:34:34,960
to take multiple passes at it.

2627
01:34:34,960 --> 01:34:37,280
>> Yeah. So, if we moved it up,

2628
01:34:37,280 --> 01:34:38,320
>> we the ranks.

2629
01:34:38,320 --> 01:34:41,920
>> I I think we reserved a couple uh

2630
01:34:41,920 --> 01:34:43,520
potential dates.

2631
01:34:43,520 --> 01:34:44,639
>> Yeah, that's the biggest thing.

2632
01:34:44,639 --> 01:34:45,679
>> I don't know. Sue, what do you think

2633
01:34:45,679 --> 01:34:46,560
about that?

2634
01:34:46,560 --> 01:34:49,040
>> Absolutely. [laughter]

2635
01:34:49,040 --> 01:34:49,920
>> Thank you.

2636
01:34:49,920 --> 01:34:52,639
>> So, yeah. Can we stick it on the tail

2637
01:34:52,639 --> 01:34:54,400
end of a regular meeting?

2638
01:34:54,400 --> 01:34:55,679
>> Depends what's on the agenda.

2639
01:34:55,679 --> 01:34:56,800
>> Yeah.

2640
01:34:56,800 --> 01:35:01,120
>> Or 10 at 11.

2641
01:35:01,120 --> 01:35:03,199
>> Yep. Say that's my son's birthday and my

2642
01:35:03,199 --> 01:35:04,480
birthday. So, if we can stick it in the

2643
01:35:04,480 --> 01:35:07,080
week in between so I can actually

2644
01:35:07,080 --> 01:35:08,000
[laughter]

2645
01:35:08,000 --> 01:35:08,960
>> Yeah. Um,

2646
01:35:08,960 --> 01:35:10,239
>> we haven't received that invitation.

2647
01:35:10,239 --> 01:35:11,679
Lauren,

2648
01:35:11,679 --> 01:35:12,480
>> bring it. Jake,

2649
01:35:12,480 --> 01:35:15,360
>> I'll bring I'll bring the cake.

2650
01:35:15,360 --> 01:35:17,600
>> Hey, virtual open house.

2651
01:35:17,600 --> 01:35:19,920
>> One more plug. Please, please look at

2652
01:35:19,920 --> 01:35:20,719
it.

2653
01:35:20,719 --> 01:35:22,239
>> Um, if you weren't in the public

2654
01:35:22,239 --> 01:35:23,360
meeting, if you were at the public

2655
01:35:23,360 --> 01:35:25,679
meeting, uh, it's a good refresher,

2656
01:35:25,679 --> 01:35:27,199
right? So, you're not coming in blind

2657
01:35:27,199 --> 01:35:30,080
for Thursday. two I mean the the memo

2658
01:35:30,080 --> 01:35:32,400
did have kind of broad strokes but um we

2659
01:35:32,400 --> 01:35:34,159
want you guys to to really kind of know

2660
01:35:34,159 --> 01:35:37,199
what what's going to be discussed um and

2661
01:35:37,199 --> 01:35:39,600
then that's it so

2662
01:35:39,600 --> 01:35:42,880
>> I appreciate it if there's any questions

2663
01:35:42,880 --> 01:35:44,159
knowing that the workshops are really

2664
01:35:44,159 --> 01:35:45,920
going to dive into all of it

2665
01:35:45,920 --> 01:35:46,880
>> that's good thanks

2666
01:35:46,880 --> 01:35:49,440
>> so the basis for you um providing this

2667
01:35:49,440 --> 01:35:51,679
tonight was really to set the template

2668
01:35:51,679 --> 01:35:54,239
that this is the infrastructure and here

2669
01:35:54,239 --> 01:35:56,320
are the decisions that are mainly

2670
01:35:56,320 --> 01:35:59,120
focused on zoning that you shouldn't

2671
01:35:59,120 --> 01:36:00,960
have to look at which we presented in

2672
01:36:00,960 --> 01:36:02,480
those three workshops. Yes.

2673
01:36:02,480 --> 01:36:04,639
>> So, so tonight was just really setting

2674
01:36:04,639 --> 01:36:06,639
the template infrastructure of what

2675
01:36:06,639 --> 01:36:09,040
we've built and now we have the ability

2676
01:36:09,040 --> 01:36:12,719
as a town to um to further that by

2677
01:36:12,719 --> 01:36:15,840
making some um decisions that are much

2678
01:36:15,840 --> 01:36:17,760
zoning oriented I guess. Yeah. This has

2679
01:36:17,760 --> 01:36:20,000
been a year and a half of a project. So,

2680
01:36:20,000 --> 01:36:22,320
it's easy between the PSD to forget some

2681
01:36:22,320 --> 01:36:24,239
of this stuff. So, part of it was to

2682
01:36:24,239 --> 01:36:26,719
recap everything we've done. Also part

2683
01:36:26,719 --> 01:36:28,960
of it is we had to um not that we

2684
01:36:28,960 --> 01:36:30,719
wouldn't have but this was this was

2685
01:36:30,719 --> 01:36:32,080
absolutely something that we had to do

2686
01:36:32,080 --> 01:36:34,000
as part of the the project.

2687
01:36:34,000 --> 01:36:34,960
>> Yes. [clears throat] And also the

2688
01:36:34,960 --> 01:36:36,639
affordability issues that we've

2689
01:36:36,639 --> 01:36:38,159
discussed over the last year and a half

2690
01:36:38,159 --> 01:36:40,719
and the PCD there seems to be a little

2691
01:36:40,719 --> 01:36:42,960
mix of that and now for the first time

2692
01:36:42,960 --> 01:36:45,760
it's clear to me what we have to do. So

2693
01:36:45,760 --> 01:36:48,159
it's good.

2694
01:36:48,159 --> 01:36:51,040
Great. Anybody else? Thanks. Good.

2695
01:36:51,040 --> 01:36:52,239
>> Okay. Thanks a lot.

2696
01:36:52,239 --> 01:36:54,239
>> Thank you guys for letting me do that.

2697
01:36:54,239 --> 01:36:58,790
>> Appreciate it very much.

2698
01:36:58,800 --> 01:37:00,800
But this is your uh paternity leave,

2699
01:37:00,800 --> 01:37:01,840
right?

2700
01:37:01,840 --> 01:37:03,440
>> No, this I'm back. I'm back.

2701
01:37:03,440 --> 01:37:04,080
>> Is that right?

2702
01:37:04,080 --> 01:37:04,639
>> Yeah.

2703
01:37:04,639 --> 01:37:05,920
>> That's all the time they gave you. I

2704
01:37:05,920 --> 01:37:08,080
thought they gave you months and months.

2705
01:37:08,080 --> 01:37:10,000
>> No.

2706
01:37:10,000 --> 01:37:14,229
>> Welcome back. [laughter]

2707
01:37:14,239 --> 01:37:16,880
» I think I'm sure you're happy to be back

2708
01:37:16,880 --> 01:37:22,390
in some ways. I know. [laughter]

2709
01:37:22,400 --> 01:37:24,960
Anyway. Okay. So, that's it for that.

2710
01:37:24,960 --> 01:37:26,800
Let's see.

2711
01:37:26,800 --> 01:37:28,719
We have next um

2712
01:37:28,719 --> 01:37:31,760
>> new applications I think. Any

2713
01:37:31,760 --> 01:37:32,800
applications?

2714
01:37:32,800 --> 01:37:34,400
>> Yeah, just the one right below it. And

2715
01:37:34,400 --> 01:37:36,239
the [clears throat]

2716
01:37:36,239 --> 01:37:38,880
>> catch. Yeah. And you may be familiar

2717
01:37:38,880 --> 01:37:40,960
with this. You reviewed it probably two

2718
01:37:40,960 --> 01:37:43,040
years ago. It just was never recorded.

2719
01:37:43,040 --> 01:37:43,520
So

2720
01:37:43,520 --> 01:37:48,867
>> Oh, okay. Right. Referrals. None.

2721
01:37:48,867 --> 01:37:49,040
[clears throat]

2722
01:37:49,040 --> 01:37:50,960
>> Let's see.

2723
01:37:50,960 --> 01:37:53,760
Reported. Chair. Um,

2724
01:37:53,760 --> 01:37:56,800
just quickly, Deb, Dave and I went over

2725
01:37:56,800 --> 01:38:00,880
most of the POC maps and um, just so you

2726
01:38:00,880 --> 01:38:03,360
know, the things had to be fixed, but

2727
01:38:03,360 --> 01:38:05,840
the Mystic River properties primarily, I

2728
01:38:05,840 --> 01:38:09,827
mean, the towns and oral school estates,

2729
01:38:09,827 --> 01:38:10,480
[clears throat] they need to be

2730
01:38:10,480 --> 01:38:13,119
corrected. Um, so they're working on

2731
01:38:13,119 --> 01:38:18,719
that. And, um, let's see.

2732
01:38:18,719 --> 01:38:21,920
And then we'll send around this article.

2733
01:38:21,920 --> 01:38:25,040
um by the president elector vote. So,

2734
01:38:25,040 --> 01:38:28,639
but that's all I have to say. So,

2735
01:38:28,639 --> 01:38:30,320
next [clears throat] I guess reporting

2736
01:38:30,320 --> 01:38:32,239
commission. Does anybody have anything

2737
01:38:32,239 --> 01:38:35,280
else to report?

2738
01:38:35,280 --> 01:38:37,920
>> Okay. And staff.

2739
01:38:37,920 --> 01:38:40,800
>> Um as you noted, we are working on the

2740
01:38:40,800 --> 01:38:43,280
format of the PCD and correcting some

2741
01:38:43,280 --> 01:38:45,199
typos and some mistakes we found in

2742
01:38:45,199 --> 01:38:45,920
there.

2743
01:38:45,920 --> 01:38:48,159
>> Um the maps that Sue referred to are

2744
01:38:48,159 --> 01:38:50,400
really just it's not changing any of the

2745
01:38:50,400 --> 01:38:52,560
maps. is just making sure that you know

2746
01:38:52,560 --> 01:38:54,719
the open space parcels are correctly

2747
01:38:54,719 --> 01:38:56,560
identified, that sort of thing.

2748
01:38:56,560 --> 01:38:58,719
>> Um, and I'm hoping that will be done

2749
01:38:58,719 --> 01:39:00,000
fairly soon.

2750
01:39:00,000 --> 01:39:00,960
>> Yep. Great.

2751
01:39:00,960 --> 01:39:02,560
>> And then we'll have paper copies for you

2752
01:39:02,560 --> 01:39:03,040
guys.

2753
01:39:03,040 --> 01:39:04,000
>> Super.

2754
01:39:04,000 --> 01:39:06,560
>> If you look.

2755
01:39:06,560 --> 01:39:09,760
>> Okay. Great. Um, so anything else?

2756
01:39:09,760 --> 01:39:12,320
Otherwise, I'll take a motion to

2757
01:39:12,320 --> 01:39:13,840
>> move.

2758
01:39:13,840 --> 01:39:15,280
>> Second.

2759
01:39:15,280 --> 01:39:18,560
>> All right. Thanks everybody. appreciate

2760
01:39:18,560 --> 01:39:21,119
your time and participation.

2761
01:39:21,119 --> 01:39:24,320
>> Well, the spot means